From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 00:29:03 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 20:29:03 -0400 Subject: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100601002903.GA3831@node1.opengeometry.net> This thread illustrates the importance of "sales and marketing", something that we tech guys scoff at, probably because we're not good at it. We need Bill Gates. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 02:47:01 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 22:47:01 -0400 Subject: For the old timers Message-ID: http://free-loops.com/download-free-loop-4472.html This brings back memories. :-) - FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 04:20:54 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 00:20:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? In-Reply-To: <20100601002903.GA3831-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100601002903.GA3831@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 May 2010, William Park wrote: > This thread illustrates the importance of "sales and marketing", > something that we tech guys scoff at, probably because we're not good > at it. We need Bill Gates. Actually I don't think it is about whether or not we're good at it[1], it's that it's less likely to effect us, in general[2]. In extrapolating this to the rest of society we underestimate the value of "sales and marketing"[3]. [1] It seems that I _am_ actually good at it. I've done a lot of consulting work and opening up new opportunities is an important part of that. [2] People who engage in non-mainstream activities tend to be free thinkers and more questioning, in general. [3] Naturally I'm stating this only as a general trend. Enough footnotes for now I think. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 11:54:46 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 07:54:46 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 31 May 2010 22:47, Fabio FZero wrote: > http://free-loops.com/download-free-loop-4472.html > > This brings back memories. :-) I still hear that sound every morning when I check my e-mail on my Look dial-up account. However, I'll finally stop sometime this September when my year's subscription runs out. I've subscribed to Teksavvy DSL and am transitioning to Gmail for my primary mail account. -- Scott A. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 13:07:42 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 09:07:42 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I know I don't miss the busy signals... On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Scott Allen wrote: > On 31 May 2010 22:47, Fabio FZero wrote: >> http://free-loops.com/download-free-loop-4472.html >> >> This brings back memories. :-) > > I still hear that sound every morning when I check my e-mail on my > Look dial-up account. > > However, I'll finally stop sometime this September when my year's > subscription runs out. I've subscribed to Teksavvy DSL and am > transitioning to Gmail for my primary mail account. > > -- > Scott A. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 13:32:15 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 09:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jun 2010, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I know I don't miss the busy signals... Or this... NO CARRIER Wasn't that just depressing right at the end of a big (several MB) download :) Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 14:04:58 2010 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 10:04:58 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C05138A.7060906@gmail.com> Scott Allen wrote: > On 31 May 2010 22:47, Fabio FZero wrote: >> http://free-loops.com/download-free-loop-4472.html >> >> This brings back memories. :-) > > I still hear that sound every morning when I check my e-mail on my > Look dial-up account. > > However, I'll finally stop sometime this September when my year's > subscription runs out. I've subscribed to Teksavvy DSL and am > transitioning to Gmail for my primary mail account. > About a year ago, I was traveling around in Mexico. Internet access was scarce in the countryside. I used a calling card to dial up my ISP to download my mail. There are still a lot of places in the world where high-speed Internet apps are just impractical. In fact, there were a *lot* of recent situations I've been in where the Internet access was too unreliable to surf the web, but downloading email was tolerable. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 14:09:03 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 10:09:03 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 31 May 2010 22:47, Fabio FZero wrote: > http://free-loops.com/download-free-loop-4472.html > > This brings back memories. :-) I don't miss it at all. But I did like this thing I saw recently: http://wimp.com/remembermodems/ -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 14:17:37 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 10:17:37 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: <4C05138A.7060906-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C05138A.7060906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C051681.5060102@utoronto.ca> On 06/01/2010 10:04 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: > Scott Allen wrote: >> On 31 May 2010 22:47, Fabio FZero wrote: >>> http://free-loops.com/download-free-loop-4472.html >>> >>> This brings back memories. :-) >> >> I still hear that sound every morning when I check my e-mail on my >> Look dial-up account. >> >> However, I'll finally stop sometime this September when my year's >> subscription runs out. I've subscribed to Teksavvy DSL and am >> transitioning to Gmail for my primary mail account. >> > > About a year ago, I was traveling around in Mexico. Internet access was > scarce in the countryside. I used a calling card to dial up my ISP to > download my mail. There are still a lot of places in the world where > high-speed Internet apps are just impractical. > > In fact, there were a *lot* of recent situations I've been in where the > Internet access was too unreliable to surf the web, but downloading > email was tolerable. I'm wondering how much IPv6 will make that problem more apparent than less. I'm just speculating, but I'd imagine having 4x more data just for a simple tcp packet will strain a lot of less developed infrastructure around the world. Maybe that won't be an issue since having IPv6 support on an uplink kind of entails newer equipment. That G20 nations deploy IPv6 and the rest of the world has to play catch up on legacy infrastructure. I really have no idea though, Robert B., you seem to know more about IPv6 infrastructure and (admittedly low) adoption? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 15:06:27 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 11:06:27 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: <4C051681.5060102-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C05138A.7060906@gmail.com> <4C051681.5060102@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20100601150627.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 01, 2010 at 10:17:37AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I'm wondering how much IPv6 will make that problem more apparent than > less. I'm just speculating, but I'd imagine having 4x more data just for > a simple tcp packet will strain a lot of less developed infrastructure > around the world. > > Maybe that won't be an issue since having IPv6 support on an uplink kind > of entails newer equipment. That G20 nations deploy IPv6 and the rest of > the world has to play catch up on legacy infrastructure. > > I really have no idea though, Robert B., you seem to know more about > IPv6 infrastructure and (admittedly low) adoption? IPv6 has 4 times longer addresses. Not 4 times the data. Adding a few more bytes (many probably zero in fact) will not matter, especially since dial up tends to use ppp header compression (if not full packet compression). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 15:24:41 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 11:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: <4C051681.5060102-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C05138A.7060906@gmail.com> <4C051681.5060102@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jun 2010, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I really have no idea though, Robert B., you seem to know more about > IPv6 infrastructure and (admittedly low) adoption? For much fun subscribe to some of the 'NOG' lists (or read their archives). Discussions about the adoption of IPv6 (or lack thereof) are a regular occurance now :) NANOG is a good place to start. If anyone does subscribe please remember that the NOG lists are for network operational matters. Discussions about the network, theory, politics, etc, happen but any attempt to get general computer support there will be met with icy glares. I'd recommend reading for quite a while before considering posting. It's amazing how little IPv6 hit the public consciousness given that our entire society now relies heavily on the Internet. There's been a lot of discussion about what will happen if IPv6 is not widely deployed before IPv4 runs out. I think it will stall the growth of the Internet and generally be a problem we could have done without :) It's worth noting that a widescale rollout of IPv6 won't mean the end of IPv4. Opinions differ on how long the two will coexist. I put it at 10 years from the point that IPv6 becomes widespread. Some other system/network admins I know think they will coexist for 20 years or more. I had this link in my sig for a while but here it is again: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 15:34:37 2010 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 08:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <541046.69930.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 6/1/10, Robert Brockway wrote: > From: Robert Brockway > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Tuesday, June 1, 2010, 12:20 AM > On Mon, 31 May 2010, William Park > wrote: > > > This thread illustrates the importance of "sales and > marketing", > > something that we tech guys scoff at, probably because > we're not good > > at it.? We need Bill Gates. > > Actually I don't think it is about whether or not we're > good at it[1], it's that it's less likely to effect us, in > general[2].? In extrapolating this to the rest of > society we underestimate the value of "sales and > marketing"[3]. > > [1] It seems that I _am_ actually good at it.? I've > done a lot of consulting work and opening up new > opportunities is an important part of that. > Can we have a presentation about sales and marketing for techies at the TLUG? I definately will benefit from it. EK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 15:58:57 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 11:58:57 -0400 Subject: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? In-Reply-To: <541046.69930.qm-OiIR87bGzwv5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <541046.69930.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 11:34 AM, E K wrote: > --- On Tue, 6/1/10, Robert Brockway wrote: > >> From: Robert Brockway >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Received: Tuesday, June 1, 2010, 12:20 AM >> On Mon, 31 May 2010, William Park >> wrote: >> >> > This thread illustrates the importance of "sales and >> marketing", >> > something that we tech guys scoff at, probably because >> we're not good >> > at it.? We need Bill Gates. >> >> Actually I don't think it is about whether or not we're >> good at it[1], it's that it's less likely to effect us, in >> general[2].? In extrapolating this to the rest of >> society we underestimate the value of "sales and >> marketing"[3]. >> >> [1] It seems that I _am_ actually good at it.? I've >> done a lot of consulting work and opening up new >> opportunities is an important part of that. >> > > Can we have a presentation about sales and marketing for techies at the TLUG? I definately will benefit from it. Last Sunday I was at Product Camp Toronto, which looked at aspects of being a product manager (the folks that tie sales, marketing and development together). Not sure when the next Product Camp Toronto will happen, but strongly recommended as it gave a lot of incites into how sales, marketing and development (should) work together. Colin McGregor > EK > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 16:15:08 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 12:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Is there, in fact, a Linux training market out there? In-Reply-To: <541046.69930.qm-OiIR87bGzwv5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <541046.69930.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jun 2010, E K wrote: I wrote: >> [1] It seems that I _am_ actually good at it.? I've >> done a lot of consulting work and opening up new >> opportunities is an important part of that. > > Can we have a presentation about sales and marketing for techies at the > TLUG? I definately will benefit from it. Hi E K. While I've come to realise I am good at it, I think this is a combination of my personality and confidence in understanding the subject matter. I don't consider myself qualified to teach anyone else about sales & marketting. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 20:33:36 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 16:33:36 -0400 Subject: FOSSCON: Rochester, NY. 19 June 2010 Message-ID: Why Should You Attend Top Notch Community Focused Talks It?s all about you and what you want and need. Talks are focused on real world applied subjects that will inspire ideas and let you take home knowledge that will deliver results in your own world. Innovative and Abundant Content In addition to keynotes, roundtable panels and dozens of conference sessions, FOSSCON brings you a range of tutorials, lightning talks, BoFs and other programming. Wide Variety of Opportunities to Connect Outside of the classroom, we offer a variety of ways to learn and connect with your peers, including evening events, community lounges, a thriving exhibit floor and much more. Who is FOSSCON for FOSSCON is for everyone! FOSSCON isn?t planned by any one person, but rather by a community formed of those interested in helping, just like many of the free and open source projects we all use every day. FOSSCON aims to please for everyone from the beginning user to the system admins striving to bring foss into their organization. Who Should Attend End Users, Software Developers, Linux IT Professionals, Industry Experts, Community Managers, Students, Media and anyone else with an interest in the Free/Open ecosystem. Register today for FOSSCON http://fosscon.org/register/ Colour poster! http://jdsnetwork.com/FOSSCON_fullpage.jpg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 1 20:44:10 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 16:44:10 -0400 Subject: FOSSCON: Rochester, NY. 19 June 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > Why Should You Attend > Top Notch Community Focused Talks > > It?s all about you and what you want and need. Talks are focused on > real world applied subjects that will inspire ideas and let you take > home knowledge that will deliver results in your own world. > Innovative and Abundant Content > > In addition to keynotes, roundtable panels and dozens of conference > sessions, FOSSCON brings you a range of tutorials, lightning talks, > BoFs and other programming. > Wide Variety of Opportunities to Connect > > Outside of the classroom, we offer a variety of ways to learn and > connect with your peers, including evening events, community lounges, > a thriving exhibit floor and much more. > Who is FOSSCON for > > FOSSCON is for everyone! FOSSCON isn?t planned by any one person, but > rather by a community formed of those interested in helping, just like > many of the free and open source projects we all use every day. > FOSSCON aims to please for everyone from the beginning user to the > system admins striving to bring foss into their organization. > Who Should Attend > > End Users, Software Developers, Linux IT Professionals, Industry > Experts, Community Managers, Students, Media and anyone else with an > interest in the Free/Open ecosystem. > > Register today for FOSSCON > http://fosscon.org/register/ > > Colour poster! > http://jdsnetwork.com/FOSSCON_fullpage.jpg Okay, this event along with the Ontario Linux Fest have been added to the GTALug list of upcoming events: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Events Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 00:37:13 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 20:37:13 -0400 Subject: solutions for archiving email Message-ID: What is available to archive sent and received email? Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 02:36:31 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 22:36:31 -0400 Subject: Cool backup idea... bup Message-ID: http://github.com/apenwarr/bup Coolest thing I've seen lately... bup... A backup system that uses the Git packfile format for storage. The way nifty part: It shares data between incremental backups, and even between hosts. If a particular file "chunk" occurs in several backups, it only needs to be stored once. It's still early in its development, so there is, for instance, not yet a very good "bup restore." At any rate, this is a clearly interesting "abuse of the underlying Git components." -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 03:09:08 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 23:09:08 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100602030908.GA10250@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Jun 01, 2010 at 07:54:46AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote > I still hear that sound every morning when I check my e-mail on my > Look dial-up account. > > However, I'll finally stop sometime this September when my year's > subscription runs out. I've subscribed to Teksavvy DSL and am > transitioning to Gmail for my primary mail account. I'm with Teksavvy, but I still keep a dialup account as a backup. It's with 295.ca. Wanna guess how much they charge per month? I deliberately have my backup account with a different provider than my broadband account. The idea is that if Teksavvy were knocked out by bankruptcy, or even temporarily by mundane backhoe or server problems, both their broadband and dialup operations could be affected. By using two different providers, I reduce the "single point of failure" exposure. Note that I said "reduce", not "eliminate". Both dialup and ADSL operate over the same phone line. To eliminate that, I would have to subscribe to cable Teksavyy internet (currently being rolled out in the GTA; see webpage http://teksavvy.com/en/res-internet.asp#cable ) and 295.ca telephone dialup. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 12:32:58 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 08:32:58 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: <20100602030908.GA10250-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100602030908.GA10250@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 1 June 2010 23:09, Walter Dnes wrote: > ?I'm with Teksavvy, but I still keep a dialup account as a backup. > It's with 295.ca. My mother uses 295.ca dial-up as her only link to the Internet. It's primarily just for e-mail and paying bills, so the low speed isn't much of a problem. A little patience is worth the approx. $300 that she saves per year. Question: Does having DSL filters affect your dial-up speeds? With DSL filters in the circuit, my USR Courier V.everything modem won't work at V.90 speeds. I have DSL filters (4) on everything except the DSL modem, including the dial-up modem. I used to connect at about 48K. Now it'll still make a V.90 connection but continually retrains so as to be virtually unusable. I've had to disable V.90 in the modem and now generally connect at about 31K, which remains reliable. With no DSL modem or filters and the Courier connected directly to the line, everything works fine, as before DSL was enabled. Leaving the Courier directly connected, with nothing but a single DSL filter dangling on a different jack is enough to cause the problem. I also get the problem with nothing on the line except the Courier attached through a filter. I'm just curious about this. It's not a big concern because I also have high-speed and my dial-up account will cease in September. -- Scott A. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 16:39:59 2010 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 12:39:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: solutions for archiving email In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Jun 2010, Dave Cramer wrote: > What is available to archive sent and received email? What type of email? Local mbox files? Remote free email stored on servers, like Yahoo or Gmail? Also, be aware of programs like G-Archiver which "stole" gmail usernames and passwords. -- Eric B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 16:45:55 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 12:45:55 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: References: <20100602030908.GA10250@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100602164555.GQ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 02, 2010 at 08:32:58AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: > My mother uses 295.ca dial-up as her only link to the Internet. It's > primarily just for e-mail and paying bills, so the low speed isn't > much of a problem. A little patience is worth the approx. $300 that > she saves per year. > > Question: Does having DSL filters affect your dial-up speeds? > With DSL filters in the circuit, my USR Courier V.everything modem > won't work at V.90 speeds. I have DSL filters (4) on everything except > the DSL modem, including the dial-up modem. I used to connect at about > 48K. Now it'll still make a V.90 connection but continually retrains > so as to be virtually unusable. I've had to disable V.90 in the modem > and now generally connect at about 31K, which remains reliable. > > With no DSL modem or filters and the Courier connected directly to the > line, everything works fine, as before DSL was enabled. Leaving the > Courier directly connected, with nothing but a single DSL filter > dangling on a different jack is enough to cause the problem. I also > get the problem with nothing on the line except the Courier attached > through a filter. > > I'm just curious about this. It's not a big concern because I also > have high-speed and my dial-up account will cease in September. I don't think I have ever tried it. Of course you could have one or more broken filters. Or a broken DSL modem that is polluting the low frequency range the modem (and voice) works in, although given you say it happens with just a filter but no DSL modem, then perhaps the filter is crap. A crap V.everything seems inconceivable. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 18:46:05 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 14:46:05 -0400 Subject: solutions for archiving email In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd prefer to archive incoming and outgoing emails as they arrive or leave. Dave On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Eric Battersby wrote: > On Tue, 1 Jun 2010, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> What is available to archive sent and received email? > > > What type of email? > Local mbox files? > Remote free email stored on servers, like Yahoo or Gmail? > > Also, be aware of programs like G-Archiver which "stole" > gmail usernames and passwords. > > -- > Eric B. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 18:58:07 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 14:58:07 -0400 Subject: solutions for archiving email In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I used Zoe[1] a long time ago but it doesn't look maintained any more (last release was 1983). Mozilla's Raindrop[2] project is really cool. I have it installed on my server at home and it archives all my mail. But has limited searching capabilities (right now) which is a big down side in any archiver. .. 1: http://sourceforge.net/projects/zoe/ .. 2: https://mozillalabs.com/raindrop On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'd prefer to archive incoming and outgoing emails as they arrive or leave. > > Dave > > On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Eric Battersby wrote: >> On Tue, 1 Jun 2010, Dave Cramer wrote: >> >>> What is available to archive sent and received email? >> >> >> What type of email? >> Local mbox files? >> Remote free email stored on servers, like Yahoo or Gmail? >> >> Also, be aware of programs like G-Archiver which "stole" >> gmail usernames and passwords. >> >> -- >> Eric B. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 18:58:38 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 14:58:38 -0400 Subject: solutions for archiving email In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C06A9DE.7090105@utoronto.ca> On 06/02/2010 02:46 PM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'd prefer to archive incoming and outgoing emails as they arrive or leave. If you're using postfix, add "always_bcc = foo-+RB1Aph5k6s at public.gmane.org" to your main.cf where foo-+RB1Aph5k6s at public.gmane.org is an existing account you can use to access the archives. You can get fancy with procmail to dump messages into specific maildirs for that account too if you're dealing with a large volume of mail. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 16:47:08 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 12:47:08 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: <20100602030908.GA10250-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100602030908.GA10250@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100602164708.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 01, 2010 at 11:09:08PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm with Teksavvy, but I still keep a dialup account as a backup. > It's with 295.ca. Wanna guess how much they charge per month? I > deliberately have my backup account with a different provider than my > broadband account. The idea is that if Teksavvy were knocked out by > bankruptcy, or even temporarily by mundane backhoe or server problems, > both their broadband and dialup operations could be affected. By using > two different providers, I reduce the "single point of failure" > exposure. Note that I said "reduce", not "eliminate". Both dialup and > ADSL operate over the same phone line. To eliminate that, I would have > to subscribe to cable Teksavyy internet (currently being rolled out in > the GTA; see webpage http://teksavvy.com/en/res-internet.asp#cable ) and > 295.ca telephone dialup. Hmm, so same speed as rogers cable, unlimited transfer, lower price. Might just be worth the hassle of switching. Too bad they don't have static IP available on the cable option. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 19:24:53 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 15:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: <20100602164708.GR17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100602030908.GA10250@waltdnes.org> <20100602164708.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > On Tue, Jun 01, 2010 at 11:09:08PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >> I'm with Teksavvy, but I still keep a dialup account as a backup. >> It's with 295.ca. Wanna guess how much they charge per month? I >> deliberately have my backup account with a different provider than my >> broadband account. The idea is that if Teksavvy were knocked out by >> bankruptcy, or even temporarily by mundane backhoe or server problems, >> both their broadband and dialup operations could be affected. By using >> two different providers, I reduce the "single point of failure" >> exposure. Note that I said "reduce", not "eliminate". Both dialup and >> ADSL operate over the same phone line. To eliminate that, I would have >> to subscribe to cable Teksavyy internet (currently being rolled out in >> the GTA; see webpage http://teksavvy.com/en/res-internet.asp#cable ) and >> 295.ca telephone dialup. > > Hmm, so same speed as rogers cable, unlimited transfer, lower price. > Might just be worth the hassle of switching. Too bad they don't have > static IP available on the cable option. > > -- > Len Sorensen I need a static IP so I emailed TekSavvy and asked them if they will be offering static IP's for their cable service and this is what they said... "There is no word on this, but I imagine it will be available in the future. I am sure we will send out an email to all of our clients once it becomes available." So I guess we will just have to wait and see. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 19:28:32 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 15:28:32 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: References: <20100602030908.GA10250@waltdnes.org> <20100602164708.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4C06B0E0.7000309@dinamis.com> On 06/02/2010 03:24 PM, Jason Carson wrote: > I need a static IP so I emailed TekSavvy and asked them if they will be > offering static IP's for their cable service and this is what they said... > > "There is no word on this, but I imagine it will be available in the > future. I am sure we will send out an email to all of our clients once it > becomes available." My Rogers IP address hasn't changed for more than a year. Each Rogers customer also gets a FQDN. I set up a CNAME to a hostname I can remember so that I don't have to remember cpe-bla-bla-bla and that gives me the ability to get a remote shell to my machine at home, if I need it. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 19:49:24 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 15:49:24 -0400 Subject: solutions for archiving email In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100602194924.GA31009@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Jun 01, 2010 at 08:37:13PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >What is available to archive sent and received email? I haven't responded until now, because I am not sure what you are asking. I don't archive mail, so much as keep all of it, with the exception of list messages. That said, I am assuming you don't wish to keep it all, but you wish to keep it all, if you take my meaning. What I have done in the past is to keep my email folder in version control, with a periodic commit managed by cron. That manages keeping everything without having to look at it. To *find* email, you could use shell tools (grep et al) or a mail indexer like mairix (which works surprisingly well, though I have only used it a couple of times). If you go the version control route, make a copy and test first - some version control tools barf on email, especially large chunks (I have a few Gb). The last time I looked mercurial and git worked well, subversion was unable to manage it. Embarrassingly, given that I promote its use, I can't remember if bzr works. These days I use rdiff-backup, for all things backup/archive related. It works, and storage space is cheaper than cognative load. Good luck! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 20:08:35 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 16:08:35 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: <4C06B0E0.7000309-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100602030908.GA10250@waltdnes.org> <20100602164708.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4C06B0E0.7000309@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20100602200835.GS17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 02, 2010 at 03:28:32PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > My Rogers IP address hasn't changed for more than a year. Each Rogers > customer also gets a FQDN. I set up a CNAME to a hostname I can remember > so that I don't have to remember cpe-bla-bla-bla and that gives me the > ability to get a remote shell to my machine at home, if I need it. I know that, but still a DHCP address that doesn't usually change is not the same thing as a static IP. And you certainly don't get a choice in reverse DNS entry on the dynamic IP either. No idea if teksavvy gives you a choice on static IPs. I would have thought they would. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 20:23:13 2010 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 16:23:13 -0400 Subject: nc/dd vs iperf Message-ID: <20100602202313.GA21110@watson-wilon.ca> Greetings, I'm performing some network tests on some virtual machines (KVM). I've performed tests using Iperf and dd/nc. I would expect the results to be similar yet they are not. Tests are performed between two identical RHEL5, 64BIT virtual hosts. The hosting hosts are also RHEL5, technically a hypervisor, but are both identical. Both hosts/HV's are connected by a 1Gb connection on same switch stack (HP Procurves). Iperf Server: /usr/local/bin/iperf -s Client: iperf -c 10.125.70.2 -t 300 VM to VM on separate HV's [ 3] 0.0-300.0 sec 26.1 GBytes 746 Mbits/sec [ 3] 0.0-300.0 sec 26.1 GBytes 747 Mbits/sec dd/nc Server: nc -vvnl 6000 > /dev/null Client dd if=/dev/zero bs=1k count=26M|nc -vvn 10.125.70.2 6000 VM to VM on separate HV's 27917287424 bytes (28 GB) copied, 1349.3 seconds, 20.7 MB/s (165Mb/s) 27917287424 bytes (28 GB) copied, 1257.03 seconds, 22.2 MB/s (178Mb/s) Shouldn't these two tests show similar results? -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 20:23:55 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 16:23:55 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: <20100602200835.GS17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100602030908.GA10250@waltdnes.org> <20100602164708.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4C06B0E0.7000309@dinamis.com> <20100602200835.GS17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4C06BDDB.6040808@dinamis.com> On 06/02/2010 04:08 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 02, 2010 at 03:28:32PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> My Rogers IP address hasn't changed for more than a year. Each Rogers >> customer also gets a FQDN. I set up a CNAME to a hostname I can remember >> so that I don't have to remember cpe-bla-bla-bla and that gives me the >> ability to get a remote shell to my machine at home, if I need it. > > I know that, but still a DHCP address that doesn't usually change is not > the same thing as a static IP. And you certainly don't get a choice in > reverse DNS entry on the dynamic IP either. The only time that reverse DNS matters is if you're running a mail server and that's pretty much a lost cause on the Rogers network. I used to have a Rogers "business" connection where they claim you can run a mail server. While it is true that you could run a mail server, getting other mail servers to deliver mail originating from Rogers IP addresses was another matter. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 21:08:45 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 17:08:45 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: <20100602200835.GS17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100602030908.GA10250@waltdnes.org> <20100602164708.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4C06B0E0.7000309@dinamis.com> <20100602200835.GS17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4C06C85D.9040300@utoronto.ca> On 06/02/2010 04:08 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 02, 2010 at 03:28:32PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> My Rogers IP address hasn't changed for more than a year. Each Rogers >> customer also gets a FQDN. I set up a CNAME to a hostname I can remember >> so that I don't have to remember cpe-bla-bla-bla and that gives me the >> ability to get a remote shell to my machine at home, if I need it. > > I know that, but still a DHCP address that doesn't usually change is not > the same thing as a static IP. And you certainly don't get a choice in > reverse DNS entry on the dynamic IP either. No idea if teksavvy gives > you a choice on static IPs. I would have thought they would. They're looking into providing static cable ips at the moment. Also, from what I've read their service won't be throttled :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 22:43:22 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 18:43:22 -0400 Subject: php module management Message-ID: Hello all, I am wondering if there is a way on adding a php module without necessarily compiling php from source. This is the situation, a centos 5.3 and everything running on it is rpm. So I have a need to use php-ctype, php-SQLite and php-tokenizer, which from what I can tell are not in any of the repository available for Centos 5. It however seem they were available during Centos 4 times, but for some reason dropped during Red Hat 5 introduction So, I have spend a substantial time googling for a gem/ruby like style of adding a module without going to the operating system repository. I am not getting any luck with this, and it look I will need to use rpmbuild to make a php rpm with the above modules built in. Would you agree this is the only option on the table, or would you be aware of another less involving method of modules management? Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 22:52:33 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 18:52:33 -0400 Subject: php module management In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100602225233.GT17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 02, 2010 at 06:43:22PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Hello all, > > I am wondering if there is a way on adding a php module without > necessarily compiling php from source. This is the situation, a > centos 5.3 and everything running on it is rpm. So I have a need to > use php-ctype, php-SQLite and php-tokenizer, which from what I can > tell are not in any of the repository available for Centos 5. It > however seem they were available during Centos 4 times, but for some > reason dropped during Red Hat 5 introduction > > > So, I have spend a substantial time googling for a gem/ruby like style > of adding a module without going to the operating system repository. I > am not getting any luck with this, and it look I will need to use > rpmbuild to make a php rpm with the above modules built in. Would you > agree this is the only option on the table, or would you be aware of > another less involving method of modules management? I know php on Debian is entirely modular. Every extension is its own package. So clearly modules can be built seperately. I haven't looked at exactly how it does the build. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 2 22:56:55 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 18:56:55 -0400 Subject: php module management In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C06E1B7.2050309@dinamis.com> On 06/02/2010 06:43 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Hello all, > > I am wondering if there is a way on adding a php module without > necessarily compiling php from source. Something like virtualenv, virtualenvwrapper, and pip in Python would be great for PHP. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 3 00:55:14 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 20:55:14 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: References: <20100602030908.GA10250@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100603005514.GA13980@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Jun 02, 2010 at 08:32:58AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote > Question: Does having DSL filters affect your dial-up speeds? I don't know. The weird part is that I tried sticking in the string to "ATZAT&A3ATX4" in a couple of places with pppconfig, but the connect response is always... Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/usb/ttyACMO Anybody have any clues on how to get the speed to show up? Check the headers on this email; where is it coming from? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 3 01:50:45 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 21:50:45 -0400 Subject: php module management In-Reply-To: <4C06E1B7.2050309-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C06E1B7.2050309@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4C070A75.9000707@utoronto.ca> On 06/02/2010 06:56 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 06/02/2010 06:43 PM, William Muriithi wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I am wondering if there is a way on adding a php module without >> necessarily compiling php from source. > > > > Something like virtualenv, virtualenvwrapper, and pip in Python would be > great for PHP. Not sure what those are, but yeah, use pecl or pear to install from php.net packages. Otherwise, have you looked closely at Remi's rpm repository? http://rpms.famillecollet.com/ There's an rpm there for RHEL5 that works with Centos 5.x. Looks like php-common and php-pdo are the packages you're after in the current repository (which means PHP 5.3). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 3 05:34:15 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 01:34:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: solutions for archiving email In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Myles Braithwaite | I used Zoe[1] a long time ago but it doesn't look maintained any more | (last release was 1983). Wow. It sure was ahead of its time. It is written in Java; Java hadn't been invented by 1983. Last change was 1984 days ago (five and a half years). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 3 14:30:08 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 10:30:08 -0400 Subject: For the old timers In-Reply-To: <20100603005514.GA13980-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100602030908.GA10250@waltdnes.org> <20100603005514.GA13980@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100603143008.GU17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 02, 2010 at 08:55:14PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, Jun 02, 2010 at 08:32:58AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote > > > Question: Does having DSL filters affect your dial-up speeds? > > I don't know. The weird part is that I tried sticking in the string > to "ATZAT&A3ATX4" in a couple of places with pppconfig, but the connect > response is always... > Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/usb/ttyACMO > > Anybody have any clues on how to get the speed to show up? Check the > headers on this email; where is it coming from? I remember having to tell the chat script to look out for the CONNECT string and capture the value in order to get the connect speed. Of course it has been so many years since I had to do it that I don't remember where or how anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 3 18:24:20 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 14:24:20 -0400 Subject: php module management In-Reply-To: <4C070A75.9000707-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C06E1B7.2050309@dinamis.com> <4C070A75.9000707@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: >> >> >> >> Something like virtualenv, virtualenvwrapper, and pip in Python would be >> great for PHP. > > Not sure what those are, but yeah, use pecl or pear to install from > php.net packages. Otherwise, have you looked closely at Remi's rpm > repository? http://rpms.famillecollet.com/ > > There's an rpm there for RHEL5 that works with Centos 5.x. Looks like > php-common and php-pdo are the packages you're after in the current > repository (which means PHP 5.3). > > Jamon Thanks Jamon. That helped William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 4 01:46:07 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 21:46:07 -0400 Subject: Six Tech Companies Join Up to Boost Linux Message-ID: I don't understand why they wouldn't join one of the other existing organisations. "TAIPEI, TAIWAN - June 3 2010 -ARM, Freescale Semiconductor, IBM, Samsung, ST-Ericsson and Texas Instruments Incorporated (TI), today announced the formation of Linaro, a not-for-profit open source software engineering company dedicated to enhancing open source innovation for the next wave of always-connected, always-on computing. Linaro's work will help developers and manufacturers provide consumers with more choice, more responsive devices and more diverse applications on Linux-based systems. "Linaro aligns the expertise of industry-leading electronics companies to accelerate innovation among Linux developers on the most advanced semiconductor SoCs (System-on-Chip). The current wave of "always-connected, always-on" devices requires complex SoCs to achieve the performance and low power consumers demand. Linaro was formed to increase investment in open source, address the challenges in developing products for sophisticated consumer markets and provide the support of a broad array of semiconductor products from multiple companies. By providing the common foundations of tools and software for other distributions and stacks to build upon, Linaro enables greater operational efficiency for the electronics industry." http://www.linaro.org/arm-freescale-ibm-samsung-st-ericsson-and-texas-instruments-form-new-company-to-speed-the-rollout-of-linux-based-devices/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 4 04:23:38 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 00:23:38 -0400 Subject: Two news stories... Message-ID: Two news stories that have stuck me as being interesting over the last few days. Seems the Quebec government broke the law by buying Microsoft software, without a proper tendering process where the should have considered Linux and other OSs: www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/06/03/quebec-microsoft-lawsuit.html Not a great victory for Linux, but at least from now on they will have to pay at least lip service Linux (and other non-Microsoft options...). Next is the new copyright bill, which ... has some depressing elements to it.... : www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/06/02/copyright-bill-clement-montreal.html Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 4 05:39:29 2010 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 01:39:29 -0400 Subject: nanonote Message-ID: Having just pounded away getting OpenWrt installed on some routers... This looks like a cool little device with some possibilities: http://sharism.cc/ Open source all the way... hardware and software. I think its a self-funded startup created by some of the refugees from the OpenMoko project. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 4 11:35:08 2010 From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 07:35:08 -0400 Subject: Two news stories... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1275651308.17473.4.camel@sadiq-desktop> On Fri, 2010-06-04 at 00:23 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Two news stories that have stuck me as being interesting over the last > few days. > > Seems the Quebec government broke the law by buying Microsoft > software, without a proper tendering process where the should have > considered Linux and other OSs: > > www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/06/03/quebec-microsoft-lawsuit.html > > Not a great victory for Linux, but at least from now on they will have > to pay at least lip service Linux (and other non-Microsoft > options...). > > Next is the new copyright bill, which ... has some depressing elements > to it.... : > > www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/06/02/copyright-bill-clement-montreal.html > > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Some of the comments on the Quebec lawsuit story are just plain asinine. "Linux sux, it looks like Windows 98, and the version before looked like Win3.1." All these pre-conceived notions of Linux need to be erased before Linux gains more market share. Distros like Ubuntu definitely don't look like Windows 98. Another interesting article on the new copyright bill: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/06/canadian-dmca-defends-drm-legalizes-dvrs.ars -- Sadiq -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 4 13:37:50 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 09:37:50 -0400 Subject: nanonote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One of the important features its missing is an..Ethernet Port? Does it have wirelesss? Don't see any in the specs. On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: > Having just pounded away getting OpenWrt installed on some routers... > This looks like a cool little device with some possibilities: > > http://sharism.cc/ > > Open source all the way... hardware and software. I think its a > self-funded startup created by some of the refugees from the OpenMoko > project. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 4 14:27:47 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:27:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Two news stories... In-Reply-To: <1275651308.17473.4.camel@sadiq-desktop> References: <1275651308.17473.4.camel@sadiq-desktop> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Jun 2010, Sadiq wrote: ... > Distros like Ubuntu definitely don't look like Windows 98. On my computer, all distros look the same. (And it's nothing like any version of Windows, and probably very different from the vast majority of Linux users.) -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 4 14:41:10 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:41:10 -0400 Subject: nanonote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100604144110.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 01:39:29AM -0400, Daniel Wayne Armstrong wrote: > Having just pounded away getting OpenWrt installed on some routers... > This looks like a cool little device with some possibilities: > > http://sharism.cc/ > > Open source all the way... hardware and software. I think its a > self-funded startup created by some of the refugees from the OpenMoko > project. Hmm, only 32MB ram. Why would someone put so little ram in a device? Of course I must admit feeling slightly silly complaining 32MB ram isn't enough when I think back to the first computer we had at home which had 5KB of ram. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 4 14:42:50 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:42:50 -0400 Subject: nanonote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4 June 2010 09:37, Dave Germiquet wrote: > One of the important features its missing is an..Ethernet Port? Does > it have wirelesss? Don't see any in the specs. It doesn't look like it has ethernet or wireless. The USB port is device mode only (not host mode) so you wouldn't be able to plug in a USB ethernet or USB wireless dongle. There's a microSD Wi-Fi card that's reported to work. Routing IP from a host computer via USB is possible. Here's the main page for the wiki, if you want to look around: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 4 14:53:59 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:53:59 -0400 Subject: nanonote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100604145359.GW17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 10:42:50AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: > On 4 June 2010 09:37, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > One of the important features its missing is an..Ethernet Port? Does > > it have wirelesss? Don't see any in the specs. > > It doesn't look like it has ethernet or wireless. > > > The USB port is device mode only (not host mode) so you wouldn't be > able to plug in a USB ethernet or USB wireless dongle. > > There's a microSD Wi-Fi card that's reported to work. > > > Routing IP from a host computer via USB is possible. > > > Here's the main page for the wiki, if you want to look around: > It appears meant as a palm pilot like device for taking notes and doing reminders, not as a web browsing or otherwise connected device. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 5 11:31:35 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 07:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: what would you pay for good kernel documentation? Message-ID: (i posted a longer form of this on the kernel newbies mailing list earlier this morning, so i'll just hit the highlights.) to make a long story much shorter, i'm sure there are a number of people who know that, for quite some time, i've been a fairly prolific writer of things tutorial and educational, including my former kernel newbies column at linux.com (http://www.crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Kernel_newbie_columns). sadly, all of that has been a labour of love as i've never charged for any it, i've always just given it away. at this point, i'd like to keep writing that sort of stuff for the edification of kernel programmers (primarily for newbies, i enjoy that kind of writing), but i really need to get something in return to justify the time i put into it. so i suggested a couple possibilities on the KN list and, after pondering, i think here's what i'll try. at the moment, my current web site is being revamped totally and when it's done in a few days, i'm just going to toss up a paypal donate button. other ideas were collating content into actual sellable books, or a small monthly subscription service (a la LWN), but those models didn't seem to work. i'm open to other ideas but, for now, i think what i want to do is just add a donation button next to what will be a plethora of kernel documentation i've written, and let readers judge for themselves what it's worth. new visitors could start with a one-time contribution of, say, 5 or 10 bucks and, sometime down the road as long as i keep writing and adding to what's there, they might decide to toss something in again, who knows? as long as i keep writing, some people might choose to throw something in on a regular basis. i'm mentioning this here since i'm interested in feedback, of course. your thoughts? how many of you would be a target market for that sort of thing? and if you found the content useful, would you consider supporting it? or, given the vagaries of human nature, do you suspect that everyone will simply read, take what they want, and leave? and is there anyone out there who's tried something like this? what did you do? did it work? etc, etc. i realize this post is again more than a little self-serving but i finally decided that i really enjoy writing good tutorials and i'd like to keep writing them, but i just need to justify the time invested. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 5 13:55:02 2010 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 09:55:02 -0400 Subject: what would you pay for good kernel documentation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C0A5736.2040708@gmail.com> Robert P. J. Day wrote: > (i posted a longer form of this on the kernel newbies mailing list > earlier this morning, so i'll just hit the highlights.) > ... > i'm mentioning this here since i'm interested in feedback, of > course. your thoughts? how many of you would be a target market for > that sort of thing? and if you found the content useful, would you > consider supporting it? or, given the vagaries of human nature, do > you suspect that everyone will simply read, take what they want, and > leave? > > and is there anyone out there who's tried something like this? what > did you do? did it work? etc, etc. i realize this post is again > more than a little self-serving but i finally decided that i really > enjoy writing good tutorials and i'd like to keep writing them, but i > just need to justify the time invested. Disclaimer: I'm not an author :-) I think that so *few* people will pay, that it probably won't make you enough money to be worth the effort. But I do think you'll get something from it. There's one alternative out there which I *think* has been successful. Compile your works into books and include a link to the book in every article you write. Even put the books online in html or something. We still live in a day where most people prefer print copy of long reading materials. It's probably going to be like that for at least another 5-10 years. That's going to exceed the useful life of most technical materials, and in the meantime, new strategies might develop. This was what Bruce Eckel did with "Thinking in C++". It was years ago that he did it. I never bought a copy of his book, but I wasn't learning C++ at the time, and I had print copies of other books already. I printed the one or two chapters I needed and would have certainly bought the book if I didn't already have primary reference material. http://www.mindview.net/Books/TICPP/ThinkingInCPP2e.html On the flipside, others have published annotated print copies of the Apache source code and I think some similar attempts at the Linux kernel. The greatest fault there I think was that the source code, and the book was out of date as soon as it hit the publisher. They almost went straight from the publisher to the discount bin. So I think the audience needs to be defined carefully... there's no point in writing a book which is specific to a minor kernel version. I think there are already books for device driver authors. I'm not sure if there are already books for students of operating system design... Tanenbaum and Minix was king when I was in school, I'm not sure if that's still the case. People *thinking about* or curious about how the kernel works, might benefit from a 200-page guide of how a modern kernel works with maybe a second 1000 page volume about the details of module loading, virtual memory, device drivers, virtualization, etc. The reason I talk about such a small book is becaues there are a lot of really crappy books out there which are 90% deep-dives into the technical nitty-gritty and only skim the high level design aspects. The nitty-gritty outdates very, very fast. Most of these books look so useless that I can only think that they exist to impress people walking into your office. I personally could benefit from a kernel guide to help me better understand things like how performance tools like vmstat, top and /proc generates numbers for purposes of baseline and tuning systems in system administration. ... but if the 200 page guide were a monthly posting on a blog, I'm sorry to say that no, at this point in the history of the Internet, *I* wouldn't pay for articles online.... and I can't justify to management donating money to your website as a business expense :-) again, I'm not an author... just my $.02 -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 5 14:12:51 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: what would you pay for good kernel documentation? In-Reply-To: <4C0A5736.2040708-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C0A5736.2040708@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Mike Kallies wrote: > ... but if the 200 page guide were a monthly posting on a blog, I'm > sorry to say that no, at this point in the history of the Internet, > *I* wouldn't pay for articles online.... and I can't justify to > management donating money to your website as a business expense :-) *sigh*. apparently, a colleague of mine was correct when i bounced this idea off him. he told me flat out that it wouldn't work, and his reasoning was simply that the open source community has become pathetically spoiled by all their software being free, to the point where a lot of them think they're entitled to anything they want at no cost. i called him on it and told him he was being ridiculously cynical. he told me to post and see the reaction i got. and i can see that he knew exactly what he was talking about. if you can seriously write that you can't justify donating what is effectively the price of a single beer because you couldn't defend it as a legitimate business expense, then, sadly, my buddy knew precisely what he was talking about. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 5 14:33:27 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:33:27 -0400 Subject: what would you pay for good kernel documentation? In-Reply-To: References: <4C0A5736.2040708@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Mike Kallies wrote: > >> ... but if the 200 page guide were a monthly posting on a blog, I'm >> sorry to say that no, at this point in the history of the Internet, >> *I* wouldn't pay for articles online.... and I can't justify to >> management donating money to your website as a business expense :-) > > ?*sigh*. ?apparently, a colleague of mine was correct when i bounced > this idea off him. ?he told me flat out that it wouldn't work, and his > reasoning was simply that the open source community has become > pathetically spoiled by all their software being free, to the point > where a lot of them think they're entitled to anything they want at no > cost. I think you missed Mike's smiley, Rob. Linux users consistently pay more for pay-what-you-will software than other OS users. Here's one data point. I remember seeing others similar to this. http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Linux-users-contribute-twice-as-much-as-Windows-users Some web sites are able to collect donations for their operations. Groklaw comes to mind, but I don't know any of the details. And the OpenStreetMap community, not just Linux users but largely F/LOSS users, were able to raise enough through donations for a new database server last year in three days. So I think your colleague is only seeing part of the picture. That said, the F/LOSS community can be pretty selective about where it chooses to offer financial support. The F/LOSS community is also, as a rule, pretty well connected and informed, and probably see "way too many" sites seeking financial support. Perhaps we've developed a thick skin towards supporting web sites because we see so many web sites that supporting all of them is out of the question. Frankly we run a lot of web sites too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 5 14:41:15 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: what would you pay for good kernel documentation? In-Reply-To: References: <4C0A5736.2040708@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Richard Weait wrote: > On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Mike Kallies wrote: > > > >> ... but if the 200 page guide were a monthly posting on a blog, > >> I'm sorry to say that no, at this point in the history of the > >> Internet, *I* wouldn't pay for articles online.... and I can't > >> justify to management donating money to your website as a > >> business expense :-) > > > > ?*sigh*. ?apparently, a colleague of mine was correct when i > > bounced this idea off him. ?he told me flat out that it wouldn't > > work, and his reasoning was simply that the open source community > > has become pathetically spoiled by all their software being free, > > to the point where a lot of them think they're entitled to > > anything they want at no cost. > > I think you missed Mike's smiley, Rob. > > Linux users consistently pay more for pay-what-you-will software > than other OS users. Here's one data point. I remember seeing > others similar to this. > http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Linux-users-contribute-twice-as-much-as-Windows-users ... snip ... > That said, the F/LOSS community can be pretty selective about where > it chooses to offer financial support. The F/LOSS community is > also, as a rule, pretty well connected and informed, and probably > see "way too many" sites seeking financial support. Perhaps we've > developed a thick skin towards supporting web sites because we see > so many web sites that supporting all of them is out of the > question. Frankly we run a lot of web sites too. i understand all that. i was making what i thought was a fairly simple proposal and was wondering what others thought of it (on other forums as well). what i wasn't expecting was the number of reactions along the lines of, "well, how much are you going to write and will you guarantee it's all up to date and will we be able to contact you personally and get personal attention for your kernel problems" and nonsense like that because their five dollar contribution clearly bestowed upon the right to dictate what i should be doing for them. i saw mike's smiley face. he wasn't funny. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 5 15:31:14 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 11:31:14 -0400 Subject: what would you pay for good kernel documentation? In-Reply-To: References: <4C0A5736.2040708@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100605153114.GA9626@yam.witteman.ca> There is an aspect of local-over-global that this list taps into, and may provide a counterpoint. I read this list over other lists because I know that the people are (mostly) around the GTA, and if I needed a locally present source of advice/work/services etc, I could look at my recollection of their posts to get a sense of their technical/social skills, and then contact them. I have on a few occasions asked on the list for services, and have been very happy with the results. I don't have the head-space for kernel development, but if you, a local and continual contributor to both the list and the larger community, advertised a pay-what-you-like setup for a resource, I would hit the site and throw you a few dollars on principle. If you produced documentation that was of value to me at work, I could absolutely justify a contribution. My situation may be more unusual, as I can use the "this is a good idea" mechanism of justification, whereas some people are more tied to deranged accountants. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 5 15:57:32 2010 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 11:57:32 -0400 Subject: what would you pay for good kernel documentation? In-Reply-To: References: <4C0A5736.2040708@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C0A73EC.8080003@gmail.com> Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jun 2010, Mike Kallies wrote: > ... > effectively the price of a single beer because you couldn't defend it > as a legitimate business expense, then, sadly, my buddy knew precisely > what he was talking about. Corporations keep very tight purse strings on expense accounts for technical people. There's nothing anyone can do about it... and it's only getting worse. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 5 16:20:51 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 12:20:51 -0400 Subject: what would you pay for good kernel documentation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Robert, If your thinking of writing a book on kernel development you might want to think about a subscription ebook based model. What this allows you to do is update your book dynamically when things change and people can always have the latest documentation because there subscribed to your books. I saw this example from some other book writers. The reason is because by the time printed books come out, everything is out of date however your subscription base could be modified when new changes happen. Make your ebook printable,and other formats and you should be good to go. Not sure how many people are in the market for kernel development. On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > ?(i posted a longer form of this on the kernel newbies mailing list > earlier this morning, so i'll just hit the highlights.) > > ?to make a long story much shorter, i'm sure there are a number of > people who know that, for quite some time, i've been a fairly prolific > writer of things tutorial and educational, including my former kernel > newbies column at linux.com > (http://www.crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Kernel_newbie_columns). > sadly, all of that has been a labour of love as i've never charged for > any it, i've always just given it away. > > ?at this point, i'd like to keep writing that sort of stuff for the > edification of kernel programmers (primarily for newbies, i enjoy that > kind of writing), but i really need to get something in return to > justify the time i put into it. ?so i suggested a couple possibilities > on the KN list and, after pondering, i think here's what i'll try. > > ?at the moment, my current web site is being revamped totally and > when it's done in a few days, i'm just going to toss up a paypal > donate button. ?other ideas were collating content into actual > sellable books, or a small monthly subscription service (a la LWN), > but those models didn't seem to work. > > ?i'm open to other ideas but, for now, i think what i want to do is > just add a donation button next to what will be a plethora of kernel > documentation i've written, and let readers judge for themselves what > it's worth. ?new visitors could start with a one-time contribution of, > say, 5 or 10 bucks and, sometime down the road as long as i keep > writing and adding to what's there, they might decide to toss > something in again, who knows? ?as long as i keep writing, some people > might choose to throw something in on a regular basis. > > ?i'm mentioning this here since i'm interested in feedback, of > course. ?your thoughts? ?how many of you would be a target market for > that sort of thing? ?and if you found the content useful, would you > consider supporting it? ?or, given the vagaries of human nature, do > you suspect that everyone will simply read, take what they want, and > leave? > > ?and is there anyone out there who's tried something like this? ?what > did you do? ?did it work? ?etc, etc. ?i realize this post is again > more than a little self-serving but i finally decided that i really > enjoy writing good tutorials and i'd like to keep writing them, but i > just need to justify the time invested. > > rday > > > -- > > ======================================================================== > Robert P. J. Day ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA > > ? ? ? ? ? ?Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. > > Web page: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://crashcourse.ca > Twitter: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://twitter.com/rpjday > ======================================================================== > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 5 17:35:51 2010 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 13:35:51 -0400 Subject: bootable backups Message-ID: <1275759351.2962.67.camel@el-grande> I'm looking into local backup solutions. Specifically what I want is to be able to backup some of my servers to a live CD or live USB so that if there is ever an issue with the server I can reboot it, (or another machine) from the CD and immediately bring the machine back online. Obviously this may not work work for servers which use a lot of disk space, but for DNS/DHCP, asterisk, or routers, this could be really useful So far all I've seen that appears to be capable of this is remastersys and bubackup. The problem with both of these is that they require Xwindows, which none of my servers are running. Does any one know of any simple scripts I can run from bash which will do this? Preferably without unmounted my root partition so that I don't have to take the server offline first. Thanks, darryl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 5 18:19:01 2010 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 14:19:01 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? Message-ID: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> I have GRUB "1.98-1ubuntu6", and while I have been using GRUB, I have always wondered how to change the delay time prior to GRUB booting into the default operating system. I would even like to switch it off, if possible. Thanks for any help you may have, as I can't seem to find mention of it anywhere, and I think a 10-second wait is silly, having been accustomed to adjusting LILO to any delay time I liked. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 5 18:54:17 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 14:54:17 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie@tcn.net> /boot/grub/menu.lst timeout 5 //change this to 1 on my 9.08 ubuntu, may be different on new grub. may not want to change to 0? as if you had to go into safe mode, 0 may not leave you the required ability no matter how fast you are on key board? I have set it to 1 if i want a almost immediate boot, yet time to override if necessary. tl On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 14:19:01 -0400 Paul King wrote: > I have GRUB "1.98-1ubuntu6", and while I have been using GRUB, I have > always wondered how to change the delay time prior to GRUB booting into > the default operating system. I would even like to switch it off, if > possible. Thanks for any help you may have, as I can't seem to find > mention of it anywhere, and I think a 10-second wait is silly, having > been accustomed to adjusting LILO to any delay time I liked. > > Paul King > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq.9541-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 5 19:09:19 2010 From: sadiq.9541-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sadiq S) Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 15:09:19 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <4C0AA0DF.4030000@asininetech.com> On 06/05/2010 02:54 PM, ted leslie wrote: > /boot/grub/menu.lst > timeout 5 //change this to 1 > > on my 9.08 ubuntu, may be different on new grub. > > may not want to change to 0? as if you had to go into safe mode, > 0 may not leave you the required ability no matter how fast you > are on key board? I have set it to 1 if i want a almost immediate > boot, yet time to override if necessary. > > tl > > > On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 14:19:01 -0400 > Paul King wrote: > > >> I have GRUB "1.98-1ubuntu6", and while I have been using GRUB, I have >> always wondered how to change the delay time prior to GRUB booting into >> the default operating system. I would even like to switch it off, if >> possible. Thanks for any help you may have, as I can't seem to find >> mention of it anywhere, and I think a 10-second wait is silly, having >> been accustomed to adjusting LILO to any delay time I liked. >> >> Paul King >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > > The file seems to be in /etc/default instead of /boot/grub/menu.lst The file is called grub. Run "sudo update-grub" after you change the timeout. I'm using Ubuntu 10.04. -- Sadiq Saif http://asininetech.com http://twitter.com/staticsafe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 5 20:51:49 2010 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 20:51:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Grml-CDs Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Colin McGregor posted in tlug-board-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org: > Antonio Sun pointed me at an offer where the > folks doing the Grml Linux distro. (http://grml.org/) are offering > free CD-ROMs for user groups. I have put in a request for 25 copies, > for passing out at future GTALug meetings as I am curious enough about > this admin. oriented distribution that I would like to toss it onto my > test PC (how long it stays on the test PC might be a very different > issue, but, I would like to look at this...). > > So, just to note that is something coming down the pipe, I hope... Thanks Colin. Grml is the distro that I've been using for a long time. FYI, Grml is pure Debain. It just provide many extra helpful tools to "make life easier", such as grml2usb for installing grml ISO(s) on a usb device for booting; grml-debootstrap that further enhance debootstrap for installing plain Debian; grml-live that builds a custom-build Grml (based) Linux live system with a single command, and so many more other helpful tools as well. Details at http://grml.org/features/ http://grml.org/changelogs/README-grml-2010.04/ http://grml.org/changelogs/README-grml-medium-2010.04/ etc. Grml does not try to please Windoze users. You can't find Gnome, KDE or even Xfce there. It is specially engined for sys-admin or text-based- tools lovers. You can find all forensic-tools there (yes, all the hacking, sniffering, penetrating tools, in a better name). Thus I personally call it Debain-based BackTrack, if you know what it is... HTH Antonio -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 6 02:12:56 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 22:12:56 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: <4C0AA0DF.4030000-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA@public.gmane.org> References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C0AA0DF.4030000@asininetech.com> Message-ID: On a related note: am I the only one here who HATES the new Grub configuration? If anybody here gets it and thinks it's brilliant, please write some comments explaining why. All I see is a new and unnecessary layer of abstraction. - FZ On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 15:09, Sadiq S wrote: (...) > The file seems to be in /etc/default instead of /boot/grub/menu.lst > > The file is called grub. > Run "sudo update-grub" after you change the timeout. > > I'm using Ubuntu 10.04. > > -- > Sadiq Saif > http://asininetech.com > http://twitter.com/staticsafe > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 6 13:12:46 2010 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 09:12:46 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C0AA0DF.4030000@asininetech.com> Message-ID: <4C0B9ECE.20709@yahoo.ca> On 10-06-05 10:12 PM, Fabio FZero wrote: > On a related note: am I the only one here who HATES the new Grub configuration? > > If anybody here gets it and thinks it's brilliant, please write some > comments explaining why. All I see is a new and unnecessary layer of > abstraction. > > - FZ As root, edit the GRUB_TIMEOUT line in /etc/default/grub and then run 'update-grub'. Note that setting it lower than about 2 may be faster than your video card changes modes so you may not actually see the count at all. In that case, for the times when you DO want something besides the default, you have to blindly press something (say, down cursor key) repeatedly during boot up in hopes of catching it. Martin p.s. As for the new layer of abstraction, I did try a just-to-see-if-I-could experiment the other week to set the grub menu to a higher video mode (I can't remember if it was 1920x1440 or 1600x1200 that I got working) and a splash image of that resolution, and it was much easier lately than I remember it beingwith the old way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 6 19:35:55 2010 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 15:35:55 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: <4C0B9ECE.20709-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C0AA0DF.4030000@asininetech.com> <4C0B9ECE.20709@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1275852955.10102.10.camel@aragorn> The problem is fixed, although not quite the way I wanted. Thanks to those on the list, and Ubuntu forums. In response to FZero, I agree Grub sucks, and I found nothing wrong with LILO. For example, I liked the fact that the timeout could be set to zero, making LILO wait forever. There will be no way that I would want to set the timeout to 1 or 2. More like 5999, like I did with LILO, but I have to settle for an inflexible 100 with grub. And with Grub, zero means zero. It was also difficult to find documentation on this setting. There are many reasons for a computer to reboot, not all of them having to do with me at the console doing the rebooting. Sometimes, I could be doing something else, and need more time. After a power outage, I often don't respond in the default 10 seconds, and by the time I reached my computer, Grub has already decided for me which OS it will boot into. Paul On Sun, 2010-06-06 at 09:12 -0400, marthter wrote: > On 10-06-05 10:12 PM, Fabio FZero wrote: > > On a related note: am I the only one here who HATES the new Grub configuration? > > > > If anybody here gets it and thinks it's brilliant, please write some > > comments explaining why. All I see is a new and unnecessary layer of > > abstraction. > > > > - FZ > As root, edit the GRUB_TIMEOUT line in /etc/default/grub and then run > 'update-grub'. > > Note that setting it lower than about 2 may be faster than your video > card changes modes so you may not actually see the count at all. In > that case, for the times when you DO want something besides the default, > you have to blindly press something (say, down cursor key) repeatedly > during boot up in hopes of catching it. > > Martin > > > p.s. As for the new layer of abstraction, I did try a > just-to-see-if-I-could experiment the other week to set the grub menu to > a higher video mode (I can't remember if it was 1920x1440 or 1600x1200 > that I got working) and a splash image of that resolution, and it was > much easier lately than I remember it beingwith the old way. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 6 22:34:53 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 18:34:53 -0400 Subject: bootable backups In-Reply-To: <1275759351.2962.67.camel@el-grande> References: <1275759351.2962.67.camel@el-grande> Message-ID: <20100606223453.GA4813@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Jun 05, 2010 at 01:35:51PM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > I'm looking into local backup solutions. > > Specifically what I want is to be able to backup some of my servers to a > live CD or live USB so that if there is ever an issue with the server I > can reboot it, (or another machine) from the CD and immediately bring > the machine back online. > > Obviously this may not work work for servers which use a lot of disk > space, but for DNS/DHCP, asterisk, or routers, this could be really > useful > > So far all I've seen that appears to be capable of this is remastersys > and bubackup. The problem with both of these is that they require > Xwindows, which none of my servers are running. > > Does any one know of any simple scripts I can run from bash which will > do this? Preferably without unmounted my root partition so that I don't > have to take the server offline first. If the original source is harddisk, then backing up to another harddisk would make sense. For that, you just have to "copy" that harddisk. Eg. Given "sda" is original harddisk, and "sdb" is backup disk, mount /dev/sdb /mnt rsync -aHxv --delete / /mnt Just use whatever booting method you use, to make it bootable. For simple setup, using "DOS" method of "active partition" is the easiest. I'm familiar with LILO, but not with GRUB. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 6 23:53:16 2010 From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (tug williams) Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 19:53:16 -0400 Subject: OT: Portable GPS Devices, Is There Such Thing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C0C34EC.4070709@gmail.com> On 05/30/10 11:35, Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 09:19, Colin McGregor wrote: > >> Yes, there are a number out there. Among the OpenStreet Map folks, at >> least in North America, Garmin seems to be the most popular brand. >> Most of the Garmin models look like fat PDAs that you can carry easily >> in one hand. Also, all but the most basic models can used to collect >> track data for OpenStreet Map (hint, hint :-) ). Some GPS reviiews can >> be seen here: >> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GPS_Reviews >> >> Colin McGregor >> > > You know as well as I do, that OSM by me is not going to happen, I > don't drive a car, I have a bike and only use it in the summer, and I > try and avoid hills as I am grossly overweight for someone my height > and very out of shape. > > > I bought a Garmin etrex Vista HCx a while back, about 1.5"x2"x5" I use it to match GPS positions to digital photos. So far I've done this manually, but the plan is to use GPSCorrelate to automate this, and the longer term plan is to use the barometric altimeter to create a map from a patch of land, but you could use it to tell you if you're cycling up hill ;-) It even tells you what the fishing is like and when is likely to be the best time of day. Canadian tire were selling some pre-usb versions for half the price, but I wasn't interested in dealing with serial ports, and the serial cable was not included. tug -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 7 00:19:06 2010 From: pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Pete Lancashire) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 17:19:06 -0700 Subject: GPS Message-ID: <4e49941cdf4fcdb0f2fa5a7ce657f0a0.squirrel@petelancashire.com> I have a Garmin Nuvi 265W said to run 4 hours on its internal batteries. And can be loaded with walking maps etc. Not tried it yet. -pete -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 7 02:54:59 2010 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 02:54:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C0AA0DF.4030000@asininetech.com> <4C0B9ECE.20709@yahoo.ca> <1275852955.10102.10.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 15:35:55 -0400, Paul King wrote: > by the time I reached my > computer, Grub has already decided for me which OS it will boot into. If you use 'savedefault', then it would be the last OS that you booted up from, which would most probably be the best choice. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 7 14:09:58 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 10:09:58 -0400 Subject: bootable backups In-Reply-To: <20100606223453.GA4813-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1275759351.2962.67.camel@el-grande> <20100606223453.GA4813@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100607140958.GX17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 06, 2010 at 06:34:53PM -0400, William Park wrote: > If the original source is harddisk, then backing up to another harddisk > would make sense. For that, you just have to "copy" that harddisk. > > Eg. Given "sda" is original harddisk, and "sdb" is backup disk, > mount /dev/sdb /mnt > rsync -aHxv --delete / /mnt As long as you don't have any database files, given those would be open and often don't like being backedup that way. > Just use whatever booting method you use, to make it bootable. For > simple setup, using "DOS" method of "active partition" is the easiest. > I'm familiar with LILO, but not with GRUB. I read recently that LILO is being dropped from the next Debian release because it doesn't work with large kernel images/ramdisks and no one is apparently bothering to try to fix it. Not that I will personally miss it, but it was once upon a time the way to go. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 7 14:12:06 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 10:12:06 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <20100607141206.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 05, 2010 at 02:19:01PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > I have GRUB "1.98-1ubuntu6", and while I have been using GRUB, I have > always wondered how to change the delay time prior to GRUB booting into > the default operating system. I would even like to switch it off, if > possible. Thanks for any help you may have, as I can't seem to find > mention of it anywhere, and I think a 10-second wait is silly, having > been accustomed to adjusting LILO to any delay time I liked. Well on debian's GRUB2, it is in /etc/default/grub as an argument called GRUB_TIMEOUT. Probably the same on ubuntu. Debian defaults to 5 seconds. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 7 14:12:29 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 10:12:29 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20100607141229.GZ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 05, 2010 at 02:54:17PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > /boot/grub/menu.lst > timeout 5 //change this to 1 > > on my 9.08 ubuntu, may be different on new grub. > > may not want to change to 0? as if you had to go into safe mode, > 0 may not leave you the required ability no matter how fast you > are on key board? I have set it to 1 if i want a almost immediate > boot, yet time to override if necessary. Grub2 doesn't use that file anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 7 14:13:29 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 10:13:29 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C0AA0DF.4030000@asininetech.com> Message-ID: <20100607141329.GA17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 05, 2010 at 10:12:56PM -0400, Fabio FZero wrote: > On a related note: am I the only one here who HATES the new Grub configuration? > > If anybody here gets it and thinks it's brilliant, please write some > comments explaining why. All I see is a new and unnecessary layer of > abstraction. It is way easier to manage from packages now. In place editing of a config file is a pain in the ass from scripts. So yes I like the new system better. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 7 14:14:56 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 10:14:56 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: <1275852955.10102.10.camel@aragorn> References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C0AA0DF.4030000@asininetech.com> <4C0B9ECE.20709@yahoo.ca> <1275852955.10102.10.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <20100607141456.GB17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 06, 2010 at 03:35:55PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > The problem is fixed, although not quite the way I wanted. Thanks to > those on the list, and Ubuntu forums. > > In response to FZero, I agree Grub sucks, and I found nothing wrong with > LILO. For example, I liked the fact that the timeout could be set to > zero, making LILO wait forever. There will be no way that I would want > to set the timeout to 1 or 2. More like 5999, like I did with LILO, but > I have to settle for an inflexible 100 with grub. And with Grub, zero > means zero. It was also difficult to find documentation on this setting. > > There are many reasons for a computer to reboot, not all of them having > to do with me at the console doing the rebooting. Sometimes, I could be > doing something else, and need more time. After a power outage, I often > don't respond in the default 10 seconds, and by the time I reached my > computer, Grub has already decided for me which OS it will boot into. If you set the timeout in grub to -1 it waits forever. I have mine configured that way. 0 means no delay obviously (something lilo did in a different way as far as I recall). -1 means never timeout. After all you can't wait a negative amount of time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 7 14:22:51 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 10:22:51 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: <20100607141329.GA17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C0AA0DF.4030000@asininetech.com> <20100607141329.GA17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4C0D00BB.30706@utoronto.ca> On 06/07/2010 10:13 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Jun 05, 2010 at 10:12:56PM -0400, Fabio FZero wrote: >> On a related note: am I the only one here who HATES the new Grub configuration? >> >> If anybody here gets it and thinks it's brilliant, please write some >> comments explaining why. All I see is a new and unnecessary layer of >> abstraction. > > It is way easier to manage from packages now. In place editing of a > config file is a pain in the ass from scripts. So yes I like the new > system better. It is also much easier to work with different operating systems e.g. if you want to boot an OSX partition or Windows, it is dead easy and doesn't require any of the map (hd0)(hd1) type stuff. I dislike working with the new configuration scripts, but I like the robustness of grub2 now compared to grub and lilo. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 7 18:22:58 2010 From: pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Pete Lancashire) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 11:22:58 -0700 Subject: VERY small embedded Linux server Message-ID: <0f76414d739d6979c66fdc077937c38c.squirrel@petelancashire.com> back end I/O is only serial but can't beat the size http://www.lantronix.com/device-networking/embedded-device-servers/xport-pro.html -pete -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 7 19:32:41 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 15:32:41 -0400 Subject: VERY small embedded Linux server In-Reply-To: <0f76414d739d6979c66fdc077937c38c.squirrel-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <0f76414d739d6979c66fdc077937c38c.squirrel@petelancashire.com> Message-ID: <20100607193241.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 07, 2010 at 11:22:58AM -0700, Pete Lancashire wrote: > back end I/O is only serial but can't beat the size > > http://www.lantronix.com/device-networking/embedded-device-servers/xport-pro.html Architecture: High performance 32-bit. OK, so which one? After a bunch of searching I ran across a reference to the coldfire cross compiler. I guess that's what it is then. Not exactly high performance, and certainly far from modern. Cute little device though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 7 21:15:35 2010 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 17:15:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux Administrator position In-Reply-To: <20100607193241.GC17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100607193241.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Does anyone on this list currently have an opening for a Linux Administrator? I've been part of TLUG for over a decade and now need a little help from my friends... Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 8 12:20:57 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 08:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: final proposed form of online kernel programming course for beginners Message-ID: for better or worse, this is what i'm going with: http://www.crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Online_beginner%27s_kernel_programming_course thoughts? rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 8 14:49:59 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:49:59 -0400 Subject: suggestion on TLUG presentation Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I'd like to know if anyone could do a presentation on the difference open source licenses available and a quick discussion about the benefits and cons of some of the majority ones. For example: Apache vs GPLv2 vs GPLv3. I find it hard wrapping my mind on it, and it would be good for people thinking of open sourcing their programs. Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 8 15:09:16 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 11:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: suggestion on TLUG presentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Jun 2010, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I'd like to know if anyone could do a presentation on the difference > open source licenses available and a quick discussion about the > benefits and cons of some of the majority ones. > > For example: Apache vs GPLv2 vs GPLv3. > > I find it hard wrapping my mind on it, and it would be good for people > thinking of open sourcing their programs. I'm actually preparing such a talk that includes information on OSS licenses. I hadn't planned to give it at GTALUG. If there was interest I would. The talk is entitled "What is Open Source" and is intended to explain it to businesses and others who are considering using OSS in their business or releasing s/w under an OSS license. It focuses on business aspects such as ways that successful companies have made money out of OSS. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 8 15:13:07 2010 From: daniel-HRJVlgn2G/y5aS82P/H3Zg at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 11:13:07 -0400 Subject: suggestion on TLUG presentation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 11:09 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 8 Jun 2010, Dave Germiquet wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I'd like to know if anyone could do a presentation on the difference >> open source licenses available and a quick discussion about the >> benefits and cons of some of the majority ones. >> >> For example: Apache vs GPLv2 vs GPLv3. >> >> I find it hard wrapping my mind on it, and it would be good for people >> thinking of open sourcing their programs. > > I'm actually preparing such a talk that includes information on OSS > licenses. ?I hadn't planned to give it at GTALUG. ?If there was interest I > would. > > The talk is entitled "What is Open Source" and is intended to explain it to > businesses and others who are considering using OSS in their business or > releasing s/w under an OSS license. ?It focuses on business aspects such as > ways that successful companies have made money out of OSS. I would certainly be interested in hearing such a presentation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 8 17:28:48 2010 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: bootable backups In-Reply-To: <20100606223453.GA4813-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100606223453.GA4813@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <997474.75596.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 6/6/10, William Park wrote: > From: William Park > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: bootable backups > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 6:34 PM > On Sat, Jun 05, 2010 at 01:35:51PM > -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > > I'm looking into local backup solutions. > > > > Specifically what I want is to be able to backup some > of my servers to a > > live CD or live USB so that if there is ever an issue > with the server I > > can reboot it, (or another machine) from the CD and > immediately bring > > the machine back online. > > > > Obviously this may not work work for servers which use > a lot of disk > > space, but for DNS/DHCP, asterisk, or routers, this > could be really > > useful > > > > So far all I've seen that appears to be capable of > this is remastersys > > and bubackup. The problem with both of these is that > they require > > Xwindows, which none of my servers are running. > > > > Does any one know of any simple scripts I can run from > bash which will > > do this? Preferably without unmounted my root > partition so that I don't > > have to take the server offline first. > > If the original source is harddisk, then backing up to > another harddisk > would make sense.? For that, you just have to "copy" > that harddisk. > > Eg.? Given "sda" is original harddisk, and "sdb" is > backup disk, > ? ? mount /dev/sdb /mnt > ? ? rsync -aHxv --delete / /mnt > Just use whatever booting method you use, to make it > bootable.? For > simple setup, using "DOS" method of "active partition" is > the easiest. > I'm familiar with LILO, but not with GRUB. > > -- > William > Try g4l (http://freshmeat.net/projects/g4l/). Most probably it will work. EK > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 8 17:43:59 2010 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:43:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: bootable backups / dd and Windows cloning In-Reply-To: <20100606223453.GA4813-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100606223453.GA4813@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <470206.17908.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi all, Me think that cloning a hard disk using dd with dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb will produce the exact image of /dev/hda on /dev/hdb so that the disk on /dev/hdb can effectively replace the disk on /dev/hda with no effect. However, when I tried to clone a Windows XP machine this way, the cloned disk is not bootable saying that there is disk error. I can still read the cloned disk once the machine boots from another disk (Windows or Linux) and a partition manager will report the same partition image as the first one (i.e. number of partitions, partition sizes, types and flags). I find this frustratingly surprising. Can anyone shade light on this? Thanks, Equbay Kiflay (EK) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 8 17:51:25 2010 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:51:25 -0400 Subject: TPL and firewalls Message-ID: <4C0E831D.5050601@tmis.ca> I was using my laptop at the TPL main reference library. Had no problem with IMAP/993/SSL and SMTP/465/SSL Went to another branch and it did not work. TPL staff put me on a phone with TPL IT Services. TPL IT says hardware at all branches is the same but firewall configurations can vary, depending on what the public has requested. They will open firewall ports at a particular branch if you request it. /teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 8 20:18:29 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 16:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bootable backups / dd and Windows cloning In-Reply-To: <470206.17908.qm-j7iHDx50kh/5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <470206.17908.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: | From: E K | Me think that cloning a hard disk using dd with | dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb I think that this should work, assuming that the disks are new enough that geometry issues don't intrude. I've done it even when the destination is a larger drive. Are there any bad tracks on the source drive? A naive raw copy isn't going work in that case. | will produce the exact image of /dev/hda on /dev/hdb so that the disk on | /dev/hdb can effectively replace the disk on /dev/hda with no effect. | However, when I tried to clone a Windows XP machine this way, the cloned | disk is not bootable saying that there is disk error. I can still read | the cloned disk once the machine boots from another disk (Windows or | Linux) and a partition manager will report the same partition image as | the first one (i.e. number of partitions, partition sizes, types and | flags). I find this frustratingly surprising. Can anyone shade light on | this? Who knows what WinXP does to prevent copying? Perhaps it checks the drive serial number. Anti-copying code may be coy about diagnostics too. Can you get it to work for Linux (the topic of this list)? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 8 20:31:45 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 16:31:45 -0400 Subject: bootable backups / dd and Windows cloning In-Reply-To: References: <470206.17908.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100608203145.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 08, 2010 at 04:18:29PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Who knows what WinXP does to prevent copying? Perhaps it checks the drive > serial number. Anti-copying code may be coy about diagnostics too. Yes XP checks the drive serial number, as well as the MAC address of the network card, motherboard serial number if present, bios type, and various other bits of data it can get at, like cpu type, ram quantity, etc. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 8 20:46:33 2010 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 16:46:33 -0400 Subject: bootable backups / dd and Windows cloning In-Reply-To: References: <470206.17908.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C0EAC29.7070706@yaknet.ca> On 10-06-08 04:18 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: E K > > | Me think that cloning a hard disk using dd with > | dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb > > I think that this should work, assuming that the disks are new enough > that geometry issues don't intrude. I've done it even when the > destination is a larger drive. > > Are there any bad tracks on the source drive? A naive raw copy isn't > going work in that case. > > | will produce the exact image of /dev/hda on /dev/hdb so that the disk on > | /dev/hdb can effectively replace the disk on /dev/hda with no effect. > | However, when I tried to clone a Windows XP machine this way, the cloned > | disk is not bootable saying that there is disk error. I can still read > | the cloned disk once the machine boots from another disk (Windows or > | Linux) and a partition manager will report the same partition image as > | the first one (i.e. number of partitions, partition sizes, types and > | flags). I find this frustratingly surprising. Can anyone shade light on > | this? > > Who knows what WinXP does to prevent copying? Perhaps it checks the drive > serial number. Anti-copying code may be coy about diagnostics too. > > Can you get it to work for Linux (the topic of this list)? > -- I've been successful in cloning a Dell Windows XP Professional with all sorts of PLC program software licences and the crappy Dell system partition. The destination drive was larger though. Tried it a year later with a drive that was the same size and was unsuccessful. It's better to have more space to work with. Try this http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=134457 John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 8 21:22:28 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 17:22:28 -0400 Subject: bootable backups / dd and Windows cloning In-Reply-To: <4C0EAC29.7070706-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <470206.17908.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4C0EAC29.7070706@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: >> | will produce the exact image of /dev/hda on /dev/hdb so that the disk on >> | /dev/hdb can effectively replace the disk on /dev/hda with no effect. >> | However, when I tried to clone a Windows XP machine this way, the cloned >> | disk is not bootable saying that there is disk error. I can still read >> | the cloned disk once the machine boots from another disk (Windows or >> | Linux) and a partition manager will report the same partition image as >> | the first one (i.e. number of partitions, partition sizes, types and >> | flags). I find this frustratingly surprising. Can anyone shade light on >> | this You can try acronis though. Its not a straight copy though. I believe they do a lot of changes on the registry to fix those issue that Lennart mentioned, but it works reliably http://www.acronis.com/ The funny thing is, its based on Linux, but can not clone Linux system. Always find that odd.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 8 21:42:16 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 17:42:16 -0400 Subject: TPL and firewalls In-Reply-To: <4C0E831D.5050601-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4C0E831D.5050601@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On 8 June 2010 13:51, teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org wrote: > I was using my laptop at the TPL main reference library. > Had no problem with IMAP/993/SSL and SMTP/465/SSL > > Went to another branch and it did not work. > TPL staff put me on a phone with TPL IT Services. > > TPL IT says hardware at all branches is the same but firewall > configurations can vary, depending on what the public has requested. > > They will open firewall ports at a particular branch if you request it. TPL's internal IT department doesn't deal with the public generally. I believe the people they put you in touch with were Spyders, the external contractor who handles all our wireless in the branches. What little info there is is here: http://beta.torontopubliclibrary.ca/using-the-library/computer-services/wireless/wireless-tips.jsp I work for TPL, but I don't know much about the wireless implementation and have found it somewhat inconsistent. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 9 08:21:20 2010 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 01:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: bootable backups / dd and Windows cloning In-Reply-To: <20100608203145.GD17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100608203145.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <492394.45376.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 6/8/10, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > From: Lennart Sorensen > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: bootable backups / dd and Windows cloning > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 4:31 PM > On Tue, Jun 08, 2010 at 04:18:29PM > -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > Who knows what WinXP does to prevent copying?? > Perhaps it checks the drive > > serial number.? Anti-copying code may be coy > about diagnostics too. > > Yes XP checks the drive serial number, as well as the MAC > address of > the network card, motherboard serial number if present, > bios type, > and various other bits of data it can get at, like cpu > type, ram > quantity, etc. > Isn't that too much work for a boot loader? The disk error message comes at pretty early stage of the boot process, immidiately after turning the machine on. EK > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 9 14:31:13 2010 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 10:31:13 -0400 Subject: x86-64 precompiled binary question Message-ID: <201006091031.14603.icanprogram@295.ca> We've been producing i386 precompiled binary versions of the SIMPL open source stuff for a while now. This works well enough for those with 32 bit machines. It doesn't work very well for 64 bit machines. What is the equivalent GCC flag to produce x86-64 code to the lowest common denominator for 64 bit machines? ie. what do Linux distributions use when they produce an x86-64 version? I looked up -mtune=generic on the GCC man page but it appears to produce some kind of hybrid 32bit/64bit code. Very confusing. Thanks in advance for your help. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 9 14:36:05 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 10:36:05 -0400 Subject: x86-64 precompiled binary question In-Reply-To: <201006091031.14603.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <201006091031.14603.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <20100609143605.GE17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 09, 2010 at 10:31:13AM -0400, bob 295 wrote: > We've been producing i386 precompiled binary versions of the SIMPL open source > stuff for a while now. This works well enough for those with 32 bit > machines. It doesn't work very well for 64 bit machines. > > What is the equivalent GCC flag to produce x86-64 code to the lowest common > denominator for 64 bit machines? ie. what do Linux distributions use when > they produce an x86-64 version? > > I looked up -mtune=generic on the GCC man page but it appears to produce some > kind of hybrid 32bit/64bit code. Very confusing. > > Thanks in advance for your help. You simply run gcc. The defaults is the lowest common denominator, and very good for all current machines (well except probably the P4s, but who cares). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 9 15:51:12 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 11:51:12 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C0AA0DF.4030000@asininetech.com> Message-ID: <4C0FB870.2000400@ve3syb.ca> Fabio FZero wrote: > On a related note: am I the only one here who HATES the new Grub configuration? You aren't the only one. I certainly don't "get it". I went back to using grub 1 on both of my machines. The configuration file for grub 2 seemed exceedingly complex compared to the simple four line entries of grub 1. Grub 2 appeared to install, or create, a bunch of .mod files in my /boot partition and caused problems when doing kernel updates as the .mod files only allowed me to have 2 active kernels with no room for the new (third) one. The .mod files might have been part of the kernel update process when using grub 2, but I can't be sure about that. I also read in several places that you need to run a command after changing the grub 2 configuration file to make the changes available at the next boot. That smacks of the bad old days of LILO. At least grub should still give you a command line so you can enter the commands needed to make the system boot if you forgot to run the grub update program. With grub 1, if you don't want to automatically boot into your default OS after a fixed delay, just comment out the "timeout" line and grub will wait indefinitely. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 9 16:08:50 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 12:08:50 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: <4C0FB870.2000400-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C0AA0DF.4030000@asininetech.com> <4C0FB870.2000400@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20100609160850.GF17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 09, 2010 at 11:51:12AM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > You aren't the only one. I certainly don't "get it". I went back to > using grub 1 on both of my machines. > > The configuration file for grub 2 seemed exceedingly complex compared to > the simple four line entries of grub 1. Grub 2 appeared to install, or > create, a bunch of .mod files in my /boot partition and caused problems > when doing kernel updates as the .mod files only allowed me to have 2 > active kernels with no room for the new (third) one. The .mod files > might have been part of the kernel update process when using grub 2, but > I can't be sure about that. I also read in several places that you need > to run a command after changing the grub 2 configuration file to make > the changes available at the next boot. That smacks of the bad old days > of LILO. At least grub should still give you a command line so you can > enter the commands needed to make the system boot if you forgot to run > the grub update program. The .mod files are part of making grub2 much more robust. Grub1 used a black map in the stage1 to load stage2 similar to how lilo uses blockmaps to load everything (which makes lilo very much not robust against any changes and unable to handle anything at boot time that wasn't preconfigured in). Grub2 embeds the essential modules into stage1 and hence doesn't use blockmaps for anything. Any additional features are loaded as modules in stage2 from the filesystem. This should make grub2 completely immune against any filesystem changes or updates, which grub1 wasn't for the stage2 file, and lilo isn't for any files it accesses. The modules are also part of having added a ton of new features and support for a lot more operating systems. The old everything in one stage2 binary simply wasn't scalable even if you didn't care about the robustness issue. > With grub 1, if you don't want to automatically boot into your default > OS after a fixed delay, just comment out the "timeout" line and grub > will wait indefinitely. And in grub2 just set it to -1 and you get the same thing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 9 20:17:00 2010 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 16:17:00 -0400 Subject: OT: International Supercomputing Conference 2010 Message-ID: <4C0FF6BC.6080602@gmail.com> There is some video available from the just recently concluded ISC in Hamburg. http://lecture2go.uni-hamburg.de/konferenzen/-/k/10941;jsessionid=09BCB17DD80621A4E7BEE8CDEB027B50 Unfortunately the format appears to be a flash app. Take care, Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 10 23:33:06 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Call for salvaged hardware! In-Reply-To: <1260208370.3662.14322.camel@gont> References: <1260208370.3662.14322.camel@gont> Message-ID: | From: Matt Price | Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 12:52:50 -0500 | | some of you may remember that years ago I taught a linux-focussed "build | your own computer" course using salvaged hardware. I'm reviving this | course in the new year at a downtown elementary school, and am looking | for parts for 15 or 16 systems that school kids will build up, install | ubuntu on, and learn to use. If it's successful, I'm hoping to expand | the program out into a bunch of neighbourhood schools, and maybe get a | kind of computer club going where kids learn a little bit of programming | and systems administrations. | | Anyway, that said: i thought I had a line on a substantial supply, but | my source has fallen through. So I'm putting out a general plea for | hardware -- boxes, parts, monitors, keyboards, mice, etc... Meanwhile | I'll keep plying my other connections as well. How did this go? Did it turn out to be a way to "consume" old computers? How old? I ask because I'm finally thinking of getting rid of some of my heap of old machines. Mostly PII era stuff. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 10 23:40:06 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 19:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Stewart Rules: Novell Wins! CASE CLOSED! Message-ID: Finally, after 7 years! -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 00:21:24 2010 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:21:24 -0400 Subject: Stewart Rules: Novell Wins! CASE CLOSED! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C118184.3090608@yaknet.ca> On 10-06-10 07:40 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > Finally, after 7 years! > > > I just read about it thanks. I really hope IBM goes after them to reveal the puppet masters. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 12:34:53 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 08:34:53 -0400 Subject: Stewart Rules: Novell Wins! CASE CLOSED! In-Reply-To: <4C118184.3090608-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4C118184.3090608@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 8:21 PM, John Myshrall wrote: > On 10-06-10 07:40 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> >> ? ? ? ? Finally, after 7 years! >> >> ? ? ? ? >> > > I just read about it thanks. I really hope IBM goes after them to reveal the > puppet masters. > > John Small point. SCO can appeal, they are VERY unlikely to win an appeal, but sad to say it might not be over yet ... :-( . Beyond the thought of an appeal, yes, I hope IBM goes after SCO in the legal equivalent of not only killing the enemy, but mounting their heads on a pike as a warning to others. There should be no question in the IT industry (especially in Redmond, WA) that going after Linux carries a very serious price.... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 13:11:06 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 09:11:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: first lesson of online kernel programming course now up Message-ID: just FYI: http://crashcourse.ca/content/building-and-running-new-kernel don't worry, i won't keep spamming this list as each new lesson gets posted. interested readers are welcome to check the site regularly or simply follow me on twitter. happy reading. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 15:25:09 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:25:09 -0400 Subject: apt sources and the Chrome browser Message-ID: <20100611152509.GA3412@yam.witteman.ca> I installed the Chrome browser (Google's newish one) to add to my testing suite, but after I did so, I noticed this new source when running an apt-get update: http://dl.google.com stable/main Packages What I am wondering is where this is coming from. It is not in /etc/apt/sources-list, and I would prefer to choose what runs when I do an update. Any suggestions? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 15:47:40 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:47:40 -0400 Subject: apt sources and the Chrome browser In-Reply-To: <20100611152509.GA3412-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100611152509.GA3412@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 11:25 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I installed the Chrome browser (Google's newish one) to add to my > testing suite, but after I did so, I noticed this new source when > running an apt-get update: > > http://dl.google.com stable/main Packages > > What I am wondering is where this is coming from. ?It is not in > /etc/apt/sources-list, and I would prefer to choose what runs when I do > an update. ?Any suggestions? ?Thanks. Try looking in /etc/apt/sources.list.d That's a directory that contains supplementary source lists. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 15:53:45 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:53:45 -0400 Subject: apt sources and the Chrome browser In-Reply-To: References: <20100611152509.GA3412@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100611155345.GA3759@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 11:47:40AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >> I installed the Chrome browser (Google's newish one) to add to my >> testing suite, but after I did so, I noticed this new source when >> running an apt-get update: >> >> http://dl.google.com stable/main Packages >> >> What I am wondering is where this is coming from. ?It is not in >> /etc/apt/sources-list, and I would prefer to choose what runs when I do >> an update. ?Any suggestions? ?Thanks. > >Try looking in /etc/apt/sources.list.d > >That's a directory that contains supplementary source lists. Aha! That's it, thank you. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 16:51:14 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:51:14 -0400 Subject: kernel panics Message-ID: what do you guys do to try and diagnose kernel panics? I have one on ubuntu right now that i can reliably reproduce just by running powertop; the error before the freeze is: klernel panic - not syncing: stack protector: kernel stack is corrupted in ffffffff814760bd this is on ubuntu lucid amd64, running on my lenovo thinkpad t410. powertop probes a bunch of modules that don't always get used, which may be why it activates the bug. Anyway, i'm just not at all sure how to locate the culprit. Any suggestions? Thanks, Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 17:45:20 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:45:20 -0400 Subject: Stewart Rules: Novell Wins! CASE CLOSED! In-Reply-To: References: <4C118184.3090608@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: <20100611174520.GG17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 08:34:53AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Small point. SCO can appeal, they are VERY unlikely to win an appeal, > but sad to say it might not be over yet ... :-( . > > Beyond the thought of an appeal, yes, I hope IBM goes after SCO in the > legal equivalent of not only killing the enemy, but mounting their > heads on a pike as a warning to others. There should be no question in > the IT industry (especially in Redmond, WA) that going after Linux > carries a very serious price.... Going after IBM carries a very serious price, although it seems it was Novell that really dealt with this mess. Not that the case against IBM looked to hold anything. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 17:46:33 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:46:33 -0400 Subject: apt sources and the Chrome browser In-Reply-To: <20100611152509.GA3412-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100611152509.GA3412@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100611174633.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 11:25:09AM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I installed the Chrome browser (Google's newish one) to add to my > testing suite, but after I did so, I noticed this new source when > running an apt-get update: > > http://dl.google.com stable/main Packages > > What I am wondering is where this is coming from. It is not in > /etc/apt/sources-list, and I would prefer to choose what runs when I do > an update. Any suggestions? Thanks. Packages can now add files to /etc/apt/sources.d/ I know opera's debian packages can do that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 18:13:56 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:13:56 -0400 Subject: Call for salvaged hardware! In-Reply-To: References: <1260208370.3662.14322.camel@gont> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 7:33 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Matt Price > | Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 12:52:50 -0500 > | > | some of you may remember that years ago I taught a linux-focussed "build > | your own computer" course using salvaged hardware. I'm reviving this > | course in the new year at a downtown elementary school, and am looking > | for parts for 15 or 16 systems that school kids will build up, install > | ubuntu on, and learn to use. ?If it's successful, I'm hoping to expand > | the program out into a bunch of neighbourhood schools, and maybe get a > | kind of computer club going where kids learn a little bit of programming > | and systems administrations. > | > | Anyway, that said: ?i thought I had a line on a substantial supply, but > | my source has fallen through. ?So I'm putting out a general plea for > | hardware -- boxes, parts, monitors, keyboards, mice, etc... ?Meanwhile > | I'll keep plying my other connections as well. > > How did this go? > > Did it turn out to be a way to "consume" old computers? > > How old? ?I ask because I'm finally thinking of getting rid of some of > my heap of old machines. ?Mostly PII era stuff. > -- i'd say more that it turned out to be a way to consume *used* computers, most of which were not actually very old. PII's are not so great for beginners to use! because it's hard to run the big shiny new distros on them -- and the mroe customization you have to do before yo start, the more there is for folks to learn. We used mostly fast P3's and some P4's (a couple with processors in the 2-3GHz range). It would be nice to know what to do with genuinely old computers. There's also an environmental question -- when you can buy an embedded system with the same processing power, it's not obvious that running big fat p2 desktops is really a green alternative. i would very much like to hear others' ideas on this subject. matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 18:21:31 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Call for salvaged hardware! In-Reply-To: References: <1260208370.3662.14322.camel@gont> Message-ID: | From: Matt Price | On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 7:33 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > ?I ask because I'm finally thinking of getting rid of some of | > my heap of old machines. ?Mostly PII era stuff. Is anyone else interested in stuff of this vintage? Or can I take it to Environment Day to get rid of it with a clear conscience? | i'd say more that it turned out to be a way to consume *used* | computers, most of which were not actually very old. PII's are not so | great for beginners to use! because it's hard to run the big shiny | new distros on them -- and the mroe customization you have to do | before yo start, the more there is for folks to learn. We used mostly | fast P3's and some P4's (a couple with processors in the 2-3GHz | range). Makes perfect sense. | It would be nice to know what to do with genuinely old computers. | There's also an environmental question -- when you can buy an embedded | system with the same processing power, it's not obvious that running | big fat p2 desktops is really a green alternative. i would very much | like to hear others' ideas on this subject. Ditto. I still use SFF PII boxes as my gateways. They have enough horsepower and they seem to be built like tanks (touch wood). From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 18:22:49 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:22:49 -0400 Subject: Call for salvaged hardware! In-Reply-To: References: <1260208370.3662.14322.camel@gont> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Matt Price wrote: > It would be nice to know what to do with genuinely old computers. > There's also an environmental question -- when you can buy an embedded > system with the same processing power, it's not obvious that running > big fat p2 desktops is really a green alternative. ?i would very much > like to hear others' ideas on this subject. Throw in a "cost of production" analysis, too, to muddy things further. If you discard the old machine, there are some environmental costs to building the new one. Of course, it's possible the new one's smaller and, in some relevant ways, more efficient. Analysis of junking automobiles has similar issues: - The new one will be more efficient (with the computer, likely wildly faster) - The old one may be more expensive to power than the new one. - But we don't know for certain what costs (beyond the surrogate of evaluating the amount of money charged) there are in constructing the new one. It seems as though, notably with computers, it's easy for it to be way too much effort to try to reclaim old ones, unless you somehow have a surplus of free highly skilled labour with nothing more valuable to do with their time. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 18:37:13 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:37:13 -0400 Subject: Call for salvaged hardware! In-Reply-To: References: <1260208370.3662.14322.camel@gont> Message-ID: they wouldn't have to be highly skilled labour On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Matt Price wrote: > > It would be nice to know what to do with genuinely old computers. > > There's also an environmental question -- when you can buy an embedded > > system with the same processing power, it's not obvious that running > > big fat p2 desktops is really a green alternative. i would very much > > like to hear others' ideas on this subject. > > Throw in a "cost of production" analysis, too, to muddy things further. > > If you discard the old machine, there are some environmental costs to > building the new one. Of course, it's possible the new one's smaller > and, in some relevant ways, more efficient. > > Analysis of junking automobiles has similar issues: > > - The new one will be more efficient (with the computer, likely wildly > faster) > > - The old one may be more expensive to power than the new one. > > - But we don't know for certain what costs (beyond the surrogate of > evaluating the amount of money charged) there are in constructing the > new one. > > It seems as though, notably with computers, it's easy for it to be way > too much effort to try to reclaim old ones, unless you somehow have a > surplus of free highly skilled labour with nothing more valuable to do > with their time. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 18:42:41 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:42:41 -0400 Subject: Call for salvaged hardware! In-Reply-To: References: <1260208370.3662.14322.camel@gont> Message-ID: <20100611184241.GA4493@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 02:13:56PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 7:33 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > How did this go? > > > > Did it turn out to be a way to "consume" old computers? > > > > How old? ?I ask because I'm finally thinking of getting rid of some of > > my heap of old machines. ?Mostly PII era stuff. > > -- > > i'd say more that it turned out to be a way to consume *used* > computers, most of which were not actually very old. PII's are not so > great for beginners to use! because it's hard to run the big shiny > new distros on them -- and the mroe customization you have to do > before yo start, the more there is for folks to learn. We used mostly > fast P3's and some P4's (a couple with processors in the 2-3GHz > range). > > It would be nice to know what to do with genuinely old computers. > There's also an environmental question -- when you can buy an embedded > system with the same processing power, it's not obvious that running > big fat p2 desktops is really a green alternative. i would very much > like to hear others' ideas on this subject. Building up a computer is good start for learning. And, for that purpose, old P2/P3/P4 are useless, mainly because of DDR2/3 RAM and SATA disk. I guess you can recycle PCI sound and ethernet. But, anything built into the motherboard would be useless. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 18:51:05 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:51:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: first lesson of online kernel programming course now up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jun 2010, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > just FYI: > > http://crashcourse.ca/content/building-and-running-new-kernel Isn't "Crash Course" a rather inappropriate name? -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 18:52:24 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: first lesson of online kernel programming course now up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jun 2010, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 11 Jun 2010, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > > > > just FYI: > > > > http://crashcourse.ca/content/building-and-running-new-kernel > > Isn't "Crash Course" a rather inappropriate name? it was chosen back when i envisioned teaching intense, 1-day, stand-up classroom courses. i'm still available for that sort of thing but i've just changed my focus. life happens. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 18:59:47 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:59:47 -0400 Subject: OpenSolaris software management Message-ID: Hello pals, Just curious, is someone here managing an open solaris system, X86 based? I have been asked to manage one of open solaris based system till we can move all services to RHEL5, but being a nob to the opensolaris, I am finding it a little tricky. For example, seem there is one repository I can find on the internet.. www.blastwave.org The odd thing is, you need to register before you can use it and I am not sure how trustworthy it is.. The box seem like it has never been updated and all software were installed from CD media.. Sound like Linux world in 1998, not fun. Now, this may be just because I am green here and hence why I need advice? Can one update open Solaris 10? Second, do you guys run production server with compilers installed? I have a very strong dislike for gcc on production system, but when I google for most solution related to open solaris, solution seem to always imply compiling stuff and therefore gcc. Never a good idea as far as security is concerned. Make it trivially easy to get rooted in my opinion. William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gron.arthur-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 19:00:46 2010 From: gron.arthur-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Gron Arthur) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:00:46 -0700 Subject: Call for salvaged hardware! In-Reply-To: References: <1260208370.3662.14322.camel@gont> Message-ID: The problem with old machines is not what to do with them. It's the cost of storage. We do a poor job of producing garbage. Yes, garbage is produced. It is collected with large trucks, manufactured by being sorted or badly sorted in depots, bought/sold/traded. Kitchen waste ends up with electronics, tin with paper, plastics do not get sorted. Imagine if old electronics where shipped to to the dessert and stored in a very dry environment. It'd still be a form of landfill, however, it would be well a sorted landfill ready to be used once somebody came up with an idea for the stuff (like a better form of material recovery or secondary use for a machine). Here is a secondary use for an old machine I want to try. Get an old printer, pull out the stepper motor, use the printer cable to connect the the motor to the parallel port. Find a power inverter from another old machine to power the motor. Now you have a robot. http://electronics-diy.com/electronics/stepper_motors.php I'm wondering, if the purpose of teaching students is to have them understand more about electronics, then perhaps the hindrance of an old machine could be turned to a benefit. Going slower, learning more? Perhaps starting with an older copy of Linux, having them learn to format a drive, and partition it? On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Matt Price wrote: > On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 7:33 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> | From: Matt Price >> | Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 12:52:50 -0500 >> | >> | some of you may remember that years ago I taught a linux-focussed "build >> | your own computer" course using salvaged hardware. I'm reviving this >> | course in the new year at a downtown elementary school, and am looking >> | for parts for 15 or 16 systems that school kids will build up, install >> | ubuntu on, and learn to use. ?If it's successful, I'm hoping to expand >> | the program out into a bunch of neighbourhood schools, and maybe get a >> | kind of computer club going where kids learn a little bit of programming >> | and systems administrations. >> | >> | Anyway, that said: ?i thought I had a line on a substantial supply, but >> | my source has fallen through. ?So I'm putting out a general plea for >> | hardware -- boxes, parts, monitors, keyboards, mice, etc... ?Meanwhile >> | I'll keep plying my other connections as well. >> >> How did this go? >> >> Did it turn out to be a way to "consume" old computers? >> >> How old? ?I ask because I'm finally thinking of getting rid of some of >> my heap of old machines. ?Mostly PII era stuff. >> -- > > i'd say more that it turned out to be a way to consume *used* > computers, most of which were not actually very old. ?PII's are not so > great for beginners to use! ?because it's hard to run the big shiny > new distros on them -- and the mroe customization you have to do > before yo start, the more there is for folks to learn. ?We used mostly > fast P3's and some P4's (a couple with processors in the 2-3GHz > range). > > It would be nice to know what to do with genuinely old computers. > There's also an environmental question -- when you can buy an embedded > system with the same processing power, it's not obvious that running > big fat p2 desktops is really a green alternative. ?i would very much > like to hear others' ideas on this subject. > > matt > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 19:32:39 2010 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:32:39 -0400 Subject: BASH question Message-ID: <201006111532.40855.icanprogram@295.ca> Recently some of my online students have been reporting errors surrounding the if statement in the (simplified) code snip below. ======= begin snip ========= ????????echo -n "Which test do you wish to run? (suggest s0001) [q to exit] " ????????read ans ????????if [ $ans == 'q' ] ????????then ????????????????echo "got quit" ????????else ????????????????echo "got $ans" ????????fi ====== end snip =========== My Linux in a Nutshell reference (circa 2000) claims that the double equals is the proper syntax. However, if I search online I find that a single equals also works and that the double equals is a synonym for the single variation. Which is the proper form? Was this changed in BASH? If so when and what is the recommended way to handle older and newer versions? Thanks in advance for your help. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 19:28:19 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:28:19 -0400 Subject: Tiny Core ... at? Message-ID: Do we have any Tiny Core users on the list? (I'm quite liking it.) I can't find a package that includes the "at" command, which I would very much like to have. Searching for "at" in Google is a losing proposition. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 19:35:16 2010 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:35:16 -0700 Subject: Tiny Core ... at? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > Do we have any Tiny Core users on the list? ?(I'm quite liking it.) ?I > can't find a package that includes the "at" command, which I would > very much like to have. ?Searching for "at" in Google is a losing > proposition. You could try searching for "atd", which is the daemon that makes "at" work. I haven't tried that search, but at least it's not a regular English word. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 19:37:41 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:37:41 -0700 Subject: OpenSolaris software management In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-5505/6mkv5m1kj?l=en&a=view#overview-3 something like this? i am looking at upgrading solaris 10 which i find in a similarily static position. i am hoping this is because the version i am running represents a solid working version that doesn't see much development, though maybe i'm just sitting on a rotten old solaris install. has anyone ever gotten the shadow_copy vfs module working in samba? i'd love to hear how! On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 11:59 AM, William Muriithi < william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Hello pals, > > Just curious, is someone here managing an open solaris system, X86 > based? I have been asked to manage one of open solaris based system > till we can move all services to RHEL5, but being a nob to the > opensolaris, I am finding it a little tricky. > > For example, seem there is one repository I can find on the internet.. > www.blastwave.org The odd thing is, you need to register before you > can use it and I am not sure how trustworthy it is.. The box seem > like it has never been updated and all software were installed from CD > media.. Sound like Linux world in 1998, not fun. Now, this may be > just because I am green here and hence why I need advice? Can one > update open Solaris 10? > > Second, do you guys run production server with compilers installed? I > have a very strong dislike for gcc on production system, but when I > google for most solution related to open solaris, solution seem to > always imply compiling stuff and therefore gcc. Never a good idea as > far as security is concerned. Make it trivially easy to get rooted in > my opinion. > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 19:42:50 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: BASH question In-Reply-To: <201006111532.40855.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <201006111532.40855.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jun 2010, bob 295 wrote: > Recently some of my online students have been reporting errors surrounding the > if statement in the (simplified) code snip below. > > ======= begin snip ========= > > ????????echo -n "Which test do you wish to run? (suggest s0001) [q to exit] " > ????????read ans > ????????if [ $ans == 'q' ] > ????????then > ????????????????echo "got quit" > ????????else > ????????????????echo "got $ans" > ????????fi > > ====== end snip =========== > > My Linux in a Nutshell reference (circa 2000) claims that the double equals is > the proper syntax. However, if I search online I find that a single > equals also works and that the double equals is a synonym for the single > variation. > > Which is the proper form? Was this changed in BASH? If so when and what is > the recommended way to handle older and newer versions? The standard is a single =; bash also accepts ==. When there is no improvement (functionality or efficiency) gained by the bash-specific form, I always use the portable syntax. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 19:44:46 2010 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:44:46 -0400 Subject: OpenSolaris software management In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C12922E.3090000@totaltravelmarketing.com> On 6/11/2010 3:37 PM, Timothy Hildred wrote: > http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-5505/6mkv5m1kj?l=en&a=view#overview-3 > > something like this? i am looking at upgrading solaris 10 which i find > in a similarily static position. i am hoping this is because the version > i am running represents a solid working version that doesn't see much > development, though maybe i'm just sitting on a rotten old solaris install. > > has anyone ever gotten the shadow_copy vfs module working in samba? i'd > love to hear how! > > On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 11:59 AM, William Muriithi > > wrote: > > Hello pals, > > Just curious, is someone here managing an open solaris system, X86 > based? I have been asked to manage one of open solaris based system > till we can move all services to RHEL5, but being a nob to the > opensolaris, I am finding it a little tricky. > > For example, seem there is one repository I can find on the internet.. > www.blastwave.org The odd thing is, you > need to register before you > can use it and I am not sure how trustworthy it is.. The box seem > like it has never been updated and all software were installed from CD > media.. Sound like Linux world in 1998, not fun. Now, this may be > just because I am green here and hence why I need advice? Can one > update open Solaris 10? > > Second, do you guys run production server with compilers installed? I > have a very strong dislike for gcc on production system, but when I > google for most solution related to open solaris, solution seem to > always imply compiling stuff and therefore gcc. Never a good idea as > far as security is concerned. Make it trivially easy to get rooted in > my opinion. > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > if your system is mirrored, I would break the mirror first to have a decent backup from the running system; but coming back to your question, their site has some instructions to update systems: http://gibbs.acu.edu/2008/07/19/opensolaris-upgrade-instructions/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 20:32:34 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 16:32:34 -0400 Subject: BASH question In-Reply-To: <201006111532.40855.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <201006111532.40855.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <20100611203234.GA5063@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 03:32:39PM -0400, bob 295 wrote: > Recently some of my online students have been reporting errors surrounding the > if statement in the (simplified) code snip below. > > ======= begin snip ========= > > ????????echo -n "Which test do you wish to run? (suggest s0001) [q to exit] " > ????????read ans > ????????if [ $ans == 'q' ] Try if [ "$ans" = q ] - quote $ans, in case it's empty - use single = inside [...] > ????????then > ????????????????echo "got quit" > ????????else > ????????????????echo "got $ans" > ????????fi > > ====== end snip =========== > > My Linux in a Nutshell reference (circa 2000) claims that the double equals is > the proper syntax. However, if I search online I find that a single > equals also works and that the double equals is a synonym for the single > variation. > > Which is the proper form? Was this changed in BASH? If so when and what is > the recommended way to handle older and newer versions? > > Thanks in advance for your help. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 20:55:44 2010 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 16:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: BASH question In-Reply-To: References: <201006111532.40855.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: Hmmm...didn't know they added "==" to Bash but I haven't bought Chris' book yet either. Sounds like feature creep/bloat to me. I can understand Bash's function command, but adding "==" doesn't serve much of a purpose, especially when it the semantics aren't identical with "==" in other computer languages. The double equals is common in most C-based languages, including PHP, C++ and Java. The shell standard is a single equals sign. As Chris suggests, use single equals sign for portability unless you have some compelling reason otherwise. I agree with William that $ans should be in double quotes: if $ans is empty, it will crash your script. If you want minimum keystrokes, William is correct that the quotes around the q are not necessary. Quotes in shell scripts are used for word deliniation, not for string representation, so q, "q" and 'q' are all equivalent (a single character). I usually wrap things like the q in double quotes so I can use word expansion later, if I need it, but it is not required. Ken B. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken at pegasoft.ca Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 11 Jun 2010, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 11 Jun 2010, bob 295 wrote: > >> Recently some of my online students have been reporting errors surrounding the >> if statement in the (simplified) code snip below. >> >> ======= begin snip ========= >> >> ????????echo -n "Which test do you wish to run? (suggest s0001) [q to exit] " >> ????????read ans >> ????????if [ $ans == 'q' ] >> ????????then >> ????????????????echo "got quit" >> ????????else >> ????????????????echo "got $ans" >> ????????fi >> >> ====== end snip =========== >> >> My Linux in a Nutshell reference (circa 2000) claims that the double equals is >> the proper syntax. However, if I search online I find that a single >> equals also works and that the double equals is a synonym for the single >> variation. >> >> Which is the proper form? Was this changed in BASH? If so when and what is >> the recommended way to handle older and newer versions? > > The standard is a single =; bash also accepts ==. > > When there is no improvement (functionality or efficiency) gained > by the bash-specific form, I always use the portable syntax. > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson, > Author: > Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 21:11:37 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:11:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: anyone interested in Old Computer Journals Message-ID: I've been a member of ACM since the early 1970's and have subscribed to their journals. This is the premier Computer Science society. I'm going to get rid of most of these journals. Is anyone interested (free)? Journal of the ACM Communications of the ACM Computing Surveys Transactions on Computer Systems Transactions of Programming Languages and Systmes SIGPLAN Notices *programming languages) SIGARCH (computer architecture) SIGOPS (operating systems) Many conference proceedings (as SIG* publications) Non-ACM journals: IEEE Computer IEEE Micro BYTE Magazine -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 23:20:50 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 19:20:50 -0400 Subject: Question about setting up ssh Message-ID: <20100611232050.GA4175@waltdnes.org> I now have 4 linux computers; my main PC, the "hot backup", a netbook, and one dedicated to PVR (still setting it up). I run into situations where I want to pass stuff back and forth. I want to implement the following solution... * collect the "id_rsa.pub" files from all users, *INCLUDING ROOT* * concatenate all these files together * store the resulting file as "authorized_keys" in all the *REGULAR* users' ~/.ssh directories * but not in root directories * set "PasswordAuthentication no" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config on all machines This should allow all users to log in to all other machines, and "su -" to root if necessary. Transferring files between root acounts will be a two-step process, but that's OK. On paper, it looks like it'll work. Am I missing anything obvious? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 23:49:24 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 19:49:24 -0400 Subject: Question about setting up ssh In-Reply-To: <20100611232050.GA4175-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100611232050.GA4175@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4C12CB84.9010704@alteeve.com> On 10-06-11 07:20 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > I now have 4 linux computers; my main PC, the "hot backup", a netbook, > and one dedicated to PVR (still setting it up). I run into situations > where I want to pass stuff back and forth. I want to implement the > following solution... > > * collect the "id_rsa.pub" files from all users, *INCLUDING ROOT* > * concatenate all these files together > * store the resulting file as "authorized_keys" in all the *REGULAR* > users' ~/.ssh directories > * but not in root directories > * set "PasswordAuthentication no" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config on all machines This shouldn't be needed. So long as you generated the source user at machine's key RSA keys without a pass-phrase and having the '~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub' keys in your target user at machine's '~/.ssh/authorized_keys' file, the password won't be asked. > This should allow all users to log in to all other machines, and > "su -" to root if necessary. Transferring files between root acounts > will be a two-step process, but that's OK. On paper, it looks like > it'll work. Am I missing anything obvious? Sounds like a plan. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 11 23:51:42 2010 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 19:51:42 -0400 Subject: Question about setting up ssh In-Reply-To: <4C12CB84.9010704-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100611232050.GA4175@waltdnes.org> <4C12CB84.9010704@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20100611235142.GA6043@watson-wilon.ca> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 07:49:24PM -0400, Digimer wrote: > On 10-06-11 07:20 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: >> * set "PasswordAuthentication no" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config on all machines > > This shouldn't be needed. So long as you generated the source > user at machine's key RSA keys without a pass-phrase and having the > '~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub' keys in your target user at machine's > '~/.ssh/authorized_keys' file, the password won't be asked. Digimer might want to specifically disallow password attempts. This is good practice if the network is untrusted. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 12 00:31:23 2010 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:31:23 -0400 Subject: anyone interested in Old Computer Journals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C12D55B.7000603@the-wire.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I've been a member of ACM since the early 1970's and have subscribed > to their journals. This is the premier Computer Science society. I'm > going to get rid of most of these journals. Is anyone interested > (free)? [ ... ] > Communications of the ACM If nobody will take the set, I have a sentimental interest in (I think) June, 1972 of Communications. That would have been the Multics one, so I may not be the only one who wants it. My subscription kicked in in July -- by the end of the decade I was working with Multics. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 12 01:00:06 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 21:00:06 -0400 Subject: Question about setting up ssh In-Reply-To: <4C12CB84.9010704-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100611232050.GA4175@waltdnes.org> <4C12CB84.9010704@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20100612010006.GA4428@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 07:49:24PM -0400, Digimer wrote > > * set "PasswordAuthentication no" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config on all machines > > This shouldn't be needed. So long as you generated the source > user at machine's key RSA keys without a pass-phrase and having the > '~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub' keys in your target user at machine's > '~/.ssh/authorized_keys' file, the password won't be asked. I think you mis-understand that setting. It's for security. Setting it to "no" means that you *CANNOT LOG IN WITH A PASSWORD*; period, end of story. The only way in is from a machine with a proper user key. This entire little LAN is at home behind a NAT'ing router (IPV6 peanut gallery, please be shut up), but it's good to have that extra layer of defense. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 12 20:10:04 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 16:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: second lesson of kernel programming course now up Message-ID: http://www.crashcourse.ca/introduction-linux-kernel-programming/introduction-linux-kernel-programming i'm still tweaking that second lesson, but i think the basics are pretty much nailed. on to lesson three. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 12 22:22:09 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 18:22:09 -0400 Subject: The Four Different Types of Linux Users Message-ID: Just found the following on a forum I'm a member of, so which type of Linux users are the members of TLUG: "In the three years I have been using Linux as my primary operating system I've taken note that in general there are four different types of Linux users. Each one fits a distinct niche and it is possible to change from one type into another over time. "The Computer User: This is a person that feels no emotional ties to FOSS/Linux. The computer is a tool to get the job done and they use Linux because it is the best tool for the job they are trying to accomplish. If Windows or OSX was better suited for the task, then they would be using that instead. They may have no idea of what FOSS or Linux is, they just know their computer works when they need it to. Odds are Linux was installed on their system by friend or relative who is a Linux Advocate or FOSS Extremist who was tried of fixing issues that kept popping up on Windows. "The Dual Booter: Typically someone who has some computer savvy about them. Odds are they decided to give Linux a try because they just caught an interesting article about a shiny new distro release on Digg or because they know a Linux Advocate who recommended it. They might make a forum post or two to try and solve an issue they are having, but odds are if the distro doesn't "just work" they will start going on about how Linux "isn't ready for the average user" or "will never make it as a desktop operating system". If their Linux install does work, they still keep Windows around because they are a "gamer" or because they need to use a piece of Windows software that does not have a decent FOSS/Linux alternative as of yet. "Linux Advocate: Someone who uses Linux because they feel it is a superior or more stable operating environment. Typically this is someone who knows their way around the computer a bit and isn't afraid to post on a forum asking a question or get their hands dirty with a bit of terminal code to get their system up and running. While they love the power of FOSS they realize at the same time that the entire world does not work in this manner (although it would be great if it did). They are typically willing to use restricted codecs and closed source video drivers to get the performance and functionality they need out of their system. While it is not uncommon for them to recommend Linux to their family and friends, most times they will even help them get it setup, they realize that some people are happy with Windows and they acknowledge this. "FOSS Extremist: They use Linux not only because it is fast and stable, but because it is FOSS. They view software that is closed source as something evil that must be conquered or changed for the good of man kind. The know the ins and outs of their system - most times for an FOSS Extremist the GUI is optional. If their hardware does not work right "out of the box" on their favorite distro they are willing to spend hours pouring over manuals and help pages to get it working. They almost constantly preach about the evils of Windows and Apple and take every chance they get to convert those they know to Linux or and FOSS operating system. "Do you think I covered most Linux users here? If not let me know other "types" of Linux users you think there are in the world. If I did cover them all where do you fit into my four different categories? Perhaps you are even a mix of two, personally I find myself somewhere inbetween FOSS Extremist and Linux Advocate depending on my mood. ~Jeff Hoogland" http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2010/06/four-different-types-of-linux-users.html -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq.9541-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 12 23:01:35 2010 From: sadiq.9541-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sadiq S) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:01:35 -0400 Subject: The Four Different Types of Linux Users In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C1411CF.9070007@asininetech.com> On 06/12/2010 06:22 PM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > Just found the following on a forum I'm a member of, so which type of > Linux users are the members of TLUG: > > "In the three years I have been using Linux as my primary operating > system I've taken note that in general there are four different types > of Linux users. Each one fits a distinct niche and it is possible to > change from one type into another over time. > > > "Linux Advocate: > Someone who uses Linux because they feel it is a superior or more > stable operating environment. Typically this is someone who knows > their way around the computer a bit and isn't afraid to post on a > forum asking a question or get their hands dirty with a bit of > terminal code to get their system up and running. While they love the > power of FOSS they realize at the same time that the entire world does > not work in this manner (although it would be great if it did). They > are typically willing to use restricted codecs and closed source video > drivers to get the performance and functionality they need out of > their system. While it is not uncommon for them to recommend Linux to > their family and friends, most times they will even help them get it > setup, they realize that some people are happy with Windows and they > acknowledge this. > > > ~Jeff Hoogland" > > http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2010/06/four-different-types-of-linux-users.html > I used to fit under the "Dual-booter" category but now I'm proud to say that I'm a full blown Linux advocate. :) It's been a month since I have made the complete switch to Ubuntu, and I love it. This blogger seems to have a nice blog, thanks for the tip! -- Sadiq Saif http://asininetech.com http://twitter.com/staticsafe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 13 00:05:02 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:05:02 -0400 Subject: The Four Different Types of Linux Users In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C1420AE.40708@utoronto.ca> On 06/12/2010 06:22 PM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > "Do you think I covered most Linux users here? If not let me know > other "types" of Linux users you think there are in the world. If I > did cover them all where do you fit into my four different categories? > Perhaps you are even a mix of two, personally I find myself somewhere > inbetween FOSS Extremist and Linux Advocate depending on my mood. He didn't. All he did was describe computer users. Each of his categories applies just as easily to OSX or Windows or to operating system xyz user. His last paragraph should read: Technically inclined user: "They know the ins and outs of their system - most times... the GUI is optional. If their hardware does not work right "out of the box"... they are willing to spend hours poring over manuals and help pages to get it working." Now that category can include hackers of all OSes :) He also doesn't make any mention of people who are paid to develop, support, and use Linux on a day to day basis for, or as their work. Moreover, within the group of Linux users that he is trying to describe, there's am immense self-selection bias since it sounds like his analysis is based mostly on forum postings. All he can really say is that some people who use computers use Linux, and that some of those Linux users have more of less technical skill than other Linux users, which is to say exactly nothing, I think.. His categories don't address why people use computers, and by not addressing that, he's stuck with generalizations about Linux users that are so broad they are useless. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 13 00:43:37 2010 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:43:37 -0400 Subject: MIT moving to Linux Message-ID: <1276389817.4885.18.camel@aragorn> Hello I guess I should have given this news earlier. Since January, I have had an Athena account on MIT's computer system. The default dialup (their term for ssh or telnet) servers this year have recently moved from Solaris machines to Linux machines. MIT's SIPB has announced that the Solaris machines will be decomissioned permanently in September in favour of Linux servers running Ubuntu 9.04 (kernel 2.6.28-18-server). The Athena accounts are generous, and offer website space that can use PHP and possibly MySQL, in addition to a separate web space for plain HTML. I have a "quick-and-dirty" proof of concept that I wrote in PHP: http://pjk.scripts.mit.edu/lab/index.php -- Just a short bio. It doesn't do anything that couldn't be done in flat HTML, but there you have it. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 13 02:37:06 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 22:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hot plugging eSATA In-Reply-To: <20100405163516.GZ4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca> <20090811140445.GA3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100405163516.GZ4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 12:35:16 -0400 | On Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 12:14:33PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > - all SATA controllers support hot plug | | No they don't. This page might be useful: I'm not clear on what is the correct protocol for unplugging. has a variety of suggestions. hdparm -Y is amongst them (surely after an unmount). While we're on the topic of external disk drives, I'll throw in another link: . This lists USB devices with smartmontools support. Many others don't work with smartmontools -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 13 21:29:24 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OpenSolaris software management In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jun 2010, William Muriithi wrote: > Second, do you guys run production server with compilers installed? I > have a very strong dislike for gcc on production system, but when I > google for most solution related to open solaris, solution seem to > always imply compiling stuff and therefore gcc. Never a good idea as > far as security is concerned. Make it trivially easy to get rooted in > my opinion. That certainly was 'conventional wisdom' for a long time and with good reason. Back when most systems online were proprietary systems on various architectures (say 15-20 years ago) then you could really slow an attacker down by preventing them from compiling on your system. Now that there are far fewer architectures in common use, and fewer OSes I'd argue that removing the compiler offers little advantage. Few exploits involve compiling code locally these days. There is a concept which I call the principal of minimum software which says you should not install any software that you don't need[1] but I don't believe the compiler requires any special treatment anymore. [1] http://practicalsysadmin.com/wiki/index.php/Minimum_Software Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 14 02:52:20 2010 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 22:52:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Turn off DVD CSS authentication Message-ID: How does one turn off DVD CSS authentication temporarily? I cannot play a non-encrypted DVD without jumping thru hoops. To me, this seems like a bug, because libdvdread should fall back to no CSS authentication instead of failing. ## THIS FAILS: # mount /dev/dvd /mnt/dvd $ mplayer dvd://2 -dvd-device /mnt/dvd ... libdvdread: Using libdvdcss version 1.2.10 for DVD access libdvdread: Attempting to use device /dev/scd0 mounted on /mnt/dvd for CSS authentication libdvdnav:DVDOpenFileUDF:UDFFindFile /VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.IFO failed ## WORK AROUND: this works (but produces many warnings): # chmod 000 /dev/dvd $ mplayer dvd://2 -dvd-device /mnt/dvd ... libdvdread: Using libdvdcss version 1.2.10 for DVD access libdvdread: Attempting to use device /dev/scd0 mounted on /mnt/dvd for CSS authentication libdvdread: Could not open /dev/scd0 with libdvdcss. libdvdread: Can't open /dev/scd0 for reading libdvdread: Device /dev/scd0 inaccessible, CSS authentication not available. *** Zero check failed in libdvdread4/ifo_read.c:518 for vmgi_mat->zero_3 = 0x00000000010000000000000000000000000000 ... *** libdvdread: CHECK_VALUE failed in libdvdread4/nav_read.c:264 *** *** for dsi->dsi_gi.zero1 == 0 *** ... A: 0.4 V: 0.2 A-V: 0.169 ct: 0.003 2/ 2 ??% ??% ??,?% 0 0 *** libdvdread: CHECK_VALUE failed in libdvdread4/nav_read.c:264 *** *** for dsi->dsi_gi.zero1 == 0 *** A: 0.9 V: 0.9 A-V: 0.017 ct: 0.066 23/ 23 19% 14% 1.5% 1 0 *** libdvdread: CHECK_VALUE failed in libdvdread4/nav_read.c:264 *** *** for dsi->dsi_gi.zero1 == 0 *** A: 1.4 V: 1.4 A-V: 0.008 ct: 0.082 38/ 38 18% 8% 1.3% 1 0 *** libdvdread: CHECK_VALUE failed in libdvdread4/nav_read.c:264 *** *** for dsi->dsi_gi.zero1 == 0 *** ... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 14 03:54:38 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 23:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: beta of Adobe Flash for 64-bit Linux "closed" Message-ID: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/64bit.html They may be committed to releasing this later, but then they've de-committed to things for Linux before (Adobe Digital Editions). I don't run Flash, but I'm tempted by ADE since it handles the DRM that the Toronto Public Library uses (grrr). I've heard that it will run under Wine (yuck). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 14 13:32:51 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 09:32:51 -0400 Subject: Turn off DVD CSS authentication In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, I never *ever* had this problem with VLC. It just works. I gave up on mplayer for anything but transcoding a while ago. - FZ On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 22:52, Eric Battersby wrote: > How does one turn off DVD CSS authentication temporarily? > I cannot play a non-encrypted DVD without jumping thru hoops. > > To me, this seems like a bug, because libdvdread should fall > back to no CSS authentication instead of failing. > > > ## THIS FAILS: > ?# mount /dev/dvd /mnt/dvd > ?$ mplayer dvd://2 -dvd-device /mnt/dvd > ?... > ?libdvdread: Using libdvdcss version 1.2.10 for DVD access > ?libdvdread: Attempting to use device /dev/scd0 mounted > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?on /mnt/dvd for CSS authentication > ?libdvdnav:DVDOpenFileUDF:UDFFindFile /VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.IFO failed > > > ## WORK AROUND: ?this works (but produces many warnings): > ?# chmod 000 /dev/dvd > ?$ mplayer dvd://2 -dvd-device /mnt/dvd > ?... > ?libdvdread: Using libdvdcss version 1.2.10 for DVD access > ?libdvdread: Attempting to use device /dev/scd0 mounted > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?on /mnt/dvd for CSS authentication > ?libdvdread: Could not open /dev/scd0 with libdvdcss. > ?libdvdread: Can't open /dev/scd0 for reading > ?libdvdread: Device /dev/scd0 inaccessible, CSS authentication not available. > ?*** Zero check failed in libdvdread4/ifo_read.c:518 > ? ? ?for vmgi_mat->zero_3 = 0x00000000010000000000000000000000000000 > ?... > ?*** libdvdread: CHECK_VALUE failed in libdvdread4/nav_read.c:264 *** > ?*** for dsi->dsi_gi.zero1 == 0 *** > ?... > ?A: ? 0.4 V: ? 0.2 A-V: ?0.169 ct: ?0.003 ? 2/ ?2 ??% ??% ??,?% 0 0 > ?*** libdvdread: CHECK_VALUE failed in libdvdread4/nav_read.c:264 *** > ?*** for dsi->dsi_gi.zero1 == 0 *** > > ?A: ? 0.9 V: ? 0.9 A-V: ?0.017 ct: ?0.066 ?23/ 23 19% 14% ?1.5% 1 0 > ?*** libdvdread: CHECK_VALUE failed in libdvdread4/nav_read.c:264 *** > ?*** for dsi->dsi_gi.zero1 == 0 *** > > ?A: ? 1.4 V: ? 1.4 A-V: ?0.008 ct: ?0.082 ?38/ 38 18% ?8% ?1.3% 1 0 > ?*** libdvdread: CHECK_VALUE failed in libdvdread4/nav_read.c:264 *** > ?*** for dsi->dsi_gi.zero1 == 0 *** > ?... > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 14 14:31:38 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:31:38 -0400 Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over Message-ID: Well, isn't this an interesting turn of events: "Every time I write about Windows security software, I get a predictable flood of responses from Linux advocates who claim that they don?t need any such protection. Today comes a shining example of why they?re wrong. "If you downloaded and installed the open-source Unreal IRC server in the last 8 months or so, you?ve been pwned. Here?s the official announcement: 'Hi all, 'This is very embarrassing? 'We found out that the Unreal3.2.8.1.tar.gz file on our mirrors has been replaced quite a while ago with a version with a backdoor (trojan) in it. 'This backdoor allows a person to execute ANY command with the privileges of the user running the ircd. The backdoor can be executed regardless of any user restrictions (so even if you have passworded server or hub that doesn?t allow any users in).'" http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/linux-infection-proves-windows-malware-monopoly-is-over/2206 -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 14 14:36:53 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:36:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jun 2010, Michael Lauzon wrote: > Well, isn't this an interesting turn of events: > > "Every time I write about Windows security software, I get a > predictable flood of responses from Linux advocates who claim that > they don?t need any such protection. Today comes a shining example > of why they?re wrong. > > "If you downloaded and installed the open-source Unreal IRC server in > the last 8 months or so, you?ve been pwned. Here?s the official > announcement: > > 'Hi all, > > 'This is very embarrassing? > > 'We found out that the Unreal3.2.8.1.tar.gz file on our mirrors has > been replaced quite a while ago with a version with a backdoor > (trojan) in it. > > 'This backdoor allows a person to execute ANY command with the > privileges of the user running the ircd. The backdoor can be > executed regardless of any user restrictions (so even if you have > passworded server or hub that doesn?t allow any users in).'" > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/linux-infection-proves-windows-malware-monopoly-is-over/2206 oh, for the love of mutt -- that's not an indictment of the security of OSS, it's an indictment of the badness of insecure servers. rday p.s. it would be deliciously ironic if the server(s) that were hacked to allow the above were running windows. -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 14 15:25:16 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 11:25:16 -0400 Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Mon, 14 Jun 2010, Michael Lauzon wrote: > >> Well, isn't this an interesting turn of events: >> >> "Every time I write about Windows security software, I get a >> predictable flood of responses from Linux advocates who claim that >> they don?t need any such protection. Today comes a shining example >> of why they?re wrong. >> >> "If you downloaded and installed the open-source Unreal IRC server in >> the last 8 months or so, you?ve been pwned. Here?s the official >> announcement: >> >> 'Hi all, >> >> 'This is very embarrassing? >> >> 'We found out that the Unreal3.2.8.1.tar.gz file on our mirrors has >> been replaced quite a while ago with a version with a backdoor >> (trojan) in it. >> >> 'This backdoor allows a person to execute ANY command with the >> privileges of the user running the ircd. The backdoor can be >> executed regardless of any user restrictions (so even if you have >> passworded server or hub that doesn?t allow any users in).'" >> >> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/linux-infection-proves-windows-malware-monopoly-is-over/2206 > > ?oh, for the love of mutt -- that's not an indictment of the security > of OSS, it's an indictment of the badness of insecure servers. > > rday > > p.s. ?it would be deliciously ironic if the server(s) that were hacked > to allow the above were running windows. > > Yeah, I get this kind of thing all the time at work. We use Ubuntu Linux now, but we used to have a mix. All the people who resisted moving to Linux are constantly complaining about every little thing, trying to show that Linux is 'just as bad as Windows'. Of course, every time you ask what they were doing when the 'crash' happened, they were watching a flash-based movie and Firefox locked up. The fact will always remain: Windows can be owned when it's just sitting there doing nothing. You have to make a specific and serious effort and throw in some social engineering to own a Linux system. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 14 15:54:56 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 11:54:56 -0400 Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C1650D0.1000100@alteeve.com> On 10-06-14 10:31 AM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > Well, isn't this an interesting turn of events: > > "Every time I write about Windows security software, I get a > predictable flood of responses from Linux advocates who claim that > they don?t need any such protection. Today comes a shining example of > why they?re wrong. > > "If you downloaded and installed the open-source Unreal IRC server in > the last 8 months or so, you?ve been pwned. Here?s the official > announcement: > > 'Hi all, > > 'This is very embarrassing? > > 'We found out that the Unreal3.2.8.1.tar.gz file on our mirrors has > been replaced quite a while ago with a version with a backdoor > (trojan) in it. > > 'This backdoor allows a person to execute ANY command with the > privileges of the user running the ircd. The backdoor can be executed > regardless of any user restrictions (so even if you have passworded > server or hub that doesn?t allow any users in).'" > > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/linux-infection-proves-windows-malware-monopoly-is-over/2206 This isn't a virus in the traditional sense. It didn't spread, it was embedded in a package. It's still a big deal, but it should be discussed for what it is. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 14 21:37:54 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:37:54 -0400 Subject: hot plugging eSATA In-Reply-To: References: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca> <20090811140445.GA3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100405163516.GZ4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100614213754.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 10:37:06PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > | Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 12:35:16 -0400 > > | On Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 12:14:33PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > | > - all SATA controllers support hot plug > | > | No they don't. > > This page might be useful: > > A good list. And it clearly shows that many controllers do not do hotplug. The intel ones for example only do it in AHCI mode, which for many of them meant only the 'R' version supported it. > I'm not clear on what is the correct protocol for unplugging. > > has a variety of suggestions. hdparm -Y is amongst them (surely after an > unmount). > > While we're on the topic of external disk drives, I'll throw in another > link: > . > This lists USB devices with smartmontools support. Many others don't work > with smartmontools -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 14 21:40:32 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:40:32 -0400 Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over In-Reply-To: <4C1650D0.1000100-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1650D0.1000100@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20100614214032.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:54:56AM -0400, Digimer wrote: > This isn't a virus in the traditional sense. It didn't spread, it was > embedded in a package. It's still a big deal, but it should be discussed > for what it is. And it only has access as the user you ran the server as. Now if you ran it as root, then you are of course an idiot. :) Or if you ran it as your regular user with sudo privileges that so many distributions seem fond of these days. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 00:18:22 2010 From: mlxxxp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 20:18:22 -0400 Subject: Problems receiving and sending to this list Message-ID: James Knott, a long time member of this list, recently started having problems receiving and posting here. I told him I would forward his requests for help in solving the problem. I'll forward any replies back to him but CCing him in your replies might get them to him sooner. ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: James Knott Date: 14 June 2010 11:08 Subject: TLUG problems For the past 2 or 3 weeks, I haven't received any email from this list. ?Even after twice trying to register, I'm still not receiving any. ?Is there a problem with the server? ?I can't even send a message from the archive. ?Even after registering, I get back this message when I try to post a message there: "You have sent a message to be posted on the gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug newsgroup. This is a non-public mailing list, which means that you have to subscribe to the list to post to it. ?If you're already subscribed to the list, Gmane can forward the message you sent to the list if you respond to this message. ?If not, you should sign up to the mailing list first, and then respond to this message, or just forget about it." So, why can I no longer receive mail from this list nor send from the archive web site? james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org ---------- End forwarded message ---------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 00:24:50 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 20:24:50 -0400 Subject: Problems receiving and sending to this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C16C852.4020903@rogers.com> I also seemed to have been dropped from the list. But I was able to join again, and have been receiving mail again. Stephen On 10-06-14 08:18 PM, Scott Allen wrote: > James Knott, a long time member of this list, recently started having > problems receiving and posting here. I told him I would forward his > requests for help in solving the problem. I'll forward any replies > back to him but CCing him in your replies might get them to him > sooner. > > ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- > From: James Knott > Date: 14 June 2010 11:08 > Subject: TLUG problems > > For the past 2 or 3 weeks, I haven't received any email from this > list. Even after twice trying to register, I'm still not receiving > any. Is there a problem with the server? I can't even send a message > from the archive. Even after registering, I get back this message > when I try to post a message there: > > "You have sent a message to be posted on the > gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug newsgroup. > > This is a non-public mailing list, which means that you have to > subscribe to the list to post to it. If you're already subscribed to > the list, Gmane can forward the message you sent to the list if you respond > to this message. If not, you should sign up to the mailing list first, > and then respond to this message, or just forget about it." > > > So, why can I no longer receive mail from this list nor send from the > archive web site? > > james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > > ---------- End forwarded message ---------- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 00:33:39 2010 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 20:33:39 -0400 Subject: Problems receiving and sending to this list In-Reply-To: <4C16C852.4020903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C16C852.4020903@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4C16CA63.3050304@yaknet.ca> On 10-06-14 08:24 PM, Stephen wrote: > I also seemed to have been dropped from the list. > > But I was able to join again, and have been receiving mail again. > > Stephen > > On 10-06-14 08:18 PM, Scott Allen wrote: >> James Knott, a long time member of this list, recently started having >> problems receiving and posting here. I told him I would forward his >> requests for help in solving the problem. I'll forward any replies >> back to him but CCing him in your replies might get them to him >> sooner. >> >> ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- >> From: James Knott >> Date: 14 June 2010 11:08 >> Subject: TLUG problems >> >> For the past 2 or 3 weeks, I haven't received any email from this >> list. Even after twice trying to register, I'm still not receiving >> any. Is there a problem with the server? I can't even send a message >> from the archive. Even after registering, I get back this message >> when I try to post a message there: >> >> "You have sent a message to be posted on the >> gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug newsgroup. >> >> This is a non-public mailing list, which means that you have to >> subscribe to the list to post to it. If you're already subscribed to >> the list, Gmane can forward the message you sent to the list if you >> respond >> to this message. If not, you should sign up to the mailing list first, >> and then respond to this message, or just forget about it." >> >> >> So, why can I no longer receive mail from this list nor send from the >> archive web site? >> >> james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org >> >> ---------- End forwarded message ---------- >> -- Same here and I never see my actual responses show up. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From johnwmcgr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 01:11:39 2010 From: johnwmcgr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 21:11:39 -0400 Subject: Problems receiving and sending to this list In-Reply-To: <4C16CA63.3050304-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4C16C852.4020903@rogers.com> <4C16CA63.3050304@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 8:33 PM, John Myshrall wrote: > On 10-06-14 08:24 PM, Stephen wrote: > >> I also seemed to have been dropped from the list. >> >> But I was able to join again, and have been receiving mail again. >> >> Stephen >> >> On 10-06-14 08:18 PM, Scott Allen wrote: >> >>> James Knott, a long time member of this list, recently started having >>> problems receiving and posting here. I told him I would forward his >>> requests for help in solving the problem. I'll forward any replies >>> back to him but CCing him in your replies might get them to him >>> sooner. >>> >>> ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- >>> From: James Knott >>> Date: 14 June 2010 11:08 >>> Subject: TLUG problems >>> >>> For the past 2 or 3 weeks, I haven't received any email from this >>> list. Even after twice trying to register, I'm still not receiving >>> any. Is there a problem with the server? I can't even send a message >>> from the archive. Even after registering, I get back this message >>> when I try to post a message there: >>> >>> "You have sent a message to be posted on the >>> gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug newsgroup. >>> >>> This is a non-public mailing list, which means that you have to >>> subscribe to the list to post to it. If you're already subscribed to >>> the list, Gmane can forward the message you sent to the list if you >>> respond >>> to this message. If not, you should sign up to the mailing list first, >>> and then respond to this message, or just forget about it." >>> >>> >>> So, why can I no longer receive mail from this list nor send from the >>> archive web site? >>> >>> james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org >>> >>> ---------- End forwarded message ---------- >>> -- >>> >> > Same here and I never see my actual responses show up. > > John > > > -- > I have the same problem as well, but I don't think that the source is the mailing list server. Rather, I am more inclined to think that Rogers and / or Yahoo is blocking mailing lists. I emailed Rogers' support to ask if this is the case this morning -- we will see if they actually respond with something useful. In the meantime, I have had to subscribe via my account GMail in order to get access to the list (I will unsubscribe this acct once the problem gets sorted). Appologies if this email isn't in the proper format. John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 01:33:54 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 21:33:54 -0400 Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over In-Reply-To: <20100614214032.GJ17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1650D0.1000100@alteeve.com> <20100614214032.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4C16D882.40303@alteeve.com> On 10-06-14 05:40 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:54:56AM -0400, Digimer wrote: >> This isn't a virus in the traditional sense. It didn't spread, it was >> embedded in a package. It's still a big deal, but it should be discussed >> for what it is. > > And it only has access as the user you ran the server as. Now if you > ran it as root, then you are of course an idiot. :) > > Or if you ran it as your regular user with sudo privileges that so many > distributions seem fond of these days. Though, 'sudo' alone isn't a problem... 'sudo' with 'nopasswd' is. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 02:25:10 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 22:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: kernel panics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jun 2010, Matt Price wrote: > this is on ubuntu lucid amd64, running on my lenovo thinkpad t410. > powertop probes a bunch of modules that don't always get used, which > may be why it activates the bug. Anyway, i'm just not at all sure how > to locate the culprit. Any suggestions? Thanks, Information such as a register dump & stack trace is written to the screen when the system panics[1]. You can copy the info down and feed it to the people maintaining your kernel[2]. I'm assuming from here on in that you're using a distro kernel. With this info they can determine the exact routine the kernel was in when it paniced. Even with this info some kernel bugs have been known to be difficult to hunt down[3]. If your kernel is behind in patch levels then they may tell you to come back if it happens once your system is fully patched. If you are using a version of the distro that is in maintenance mode then the response of the developers may be significantly slower. So upgrade to the latest stable kernel version that the distro provides and see if it still happens. You can file a bug report with your distro. They may or may not have specific procedures for a kernel panic. It's actually good that it is reproducible as you can test fixes for the developers, which helps everyone in the long run. [1] One advantage of a serial console here is that it is pretty easy to copy the info over from the system connected to the console. [2] Either your distro or the kernel developers if you run a mainline kernel. There is a doc in the kernel source with specific info about how to report a panic of a mainline kernel. [3] There was a case recently were a user had a highly reproducible kernel panic like yours. It took a while for the devs to find the bug but they apparently found and fixed several other bugs while looking for his :) Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 05:28:15 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 01:28:15 -0400 Subject: Problems receiving and sending to this list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C170F6F.4010106@rogers.com> Scott Allen wrote: > James Knott, a long time member of this list, recently started having > problems receiving and posting here. I told him I would forward his > requests for help in solving the problem. I'll forward any replies > back to him but CCing him in your replies might get them to him > sooner. > > ---------- Begin forwarded message ---------- > From: James Knott > Date: 14 June 2010 11:08 > Subject: TLUG problems > > For the past 2 or 3 weeks, I haven't received any email from this > list. Even after twice trying to register, I'm still not receiving > any. Is there a problem with the server? I can't even send a message > from the archive. Even after registering, I get back this message > when I try to post a message there: I stopped receiving emails from the list around May 26. I checked the archives, and found there had been recent postings. I re-subscribed on Jun 7, and immediately started to received list messages again. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 07:33:05 2010 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:33:05 -0400 Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over In-Reply-To: <20100614214032.GJ17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1650D0.1000100@alteeve.com> <20100614214032.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100615033305.arc6qoe5twkww4wc@mail.math.yorku.ca> Quoting Lennart Sorensen : > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:54:56AM -0400, Digimer wrote: >> This isn't a virus in the traditional sense. It didn't spread, it was >> embedded in a package. It's still a big deal, but it should be discussed >> for what it is. > > And it only has access as the user you ran the server as. Now if you > ran it as root, then you are of course an idiot. :) Well, there's plenty of nasty stuff a program can do with just the privileges of the sole non-root user of a typical home system. For example, it could look in your .mozilla tree and grab your passwords, unless you have them encrypted. You *should* have them encrypted, of course. But what fraction of users really do? It's an extra hassle. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 10:53:41 2010 From: jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 06:53:41 -0400 Subject: Problems receiving and sending to this list In-Reply-To: <4C170F6F.4010106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C170F6F.4010106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4C175BB5.10202@gmail.com> Yanni Chiu wrote: > I stopped receiving emails from the list around May 26. I checked the > archives, and found there had been recent postings. I re-subscribed on > Jun 7, and immediately started to received list messages again. I tried registering a total of 4 times and still no luck. I had to use my gmail address to finally get back on. However, it does appear to be a Rogers/Yahoo thing as everyone who's had the problem is on Rogers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 12:48:24 2010 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:48:24 -0400 Subject: Problems receiving and sending to this list In-Reply-To: <4C175BB5.10202-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C170F6F.4010106@rogers.com> <4C175BB5.10202@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C177698.6010708@yaknet.ca> On 10-06-15 06:53 AM, James Knott wrote: > Yanni Chiu wrote: >> I stopped receiving emails from the list around May 26. I checked the >> archives, and found there had been recent postings. I re-subscribed on >> Jun 7, and immediately started to received list messages again. > I tried registering a total of 4 times and still no luck. I had to use > my gmail address to finally get back on. However, it does appear to be a > Rogers/Yahoo thing as everyone who's had the problem is on Rogers. > > -- My problem is likely on my end. Somehow my messages are being filtered. I just recently switched to yak for DSL and home phone. The funny thing is I have no filters set up and my Tbird spam log is empty. I'm sending this a s a test to see if the Gmail webmail that yak uses sees my e-mail. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 13:07:51 2010 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 09:07:51 -0400 Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over In-Reply-To: <20100615033305.arc6qoe5twkww4wc-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1650D0.1000100@alteeve.com> <20100614214032.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100615033305.arc6qoe5twkww4wc@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <4C177B27.50203@totaltravelmarketing.com> On 6/15/2010 3:33 AM, Mike Oliver wrote: > Quoting Lennart Sorensen : > >> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:54:56AM -0400, Digimer wrote: >>> This isn't a virus in the traditional sense. It didn't spread, it was >>> embedded in a package. It's still a big deal, but it should be discussed >>> for what it is. >> >> And it only has access as the user you ran the server as. Now if you >> ran it as root, then you are of course an idiot. :) > > Well, there's plenty of nasty stuff a program can do with just the > privileges of the sole non-root user of a typical home system. For example, > it could look in your .mozilla tree and grab your passwords, unless you > have > them encrypted. You *should* have them encrypted, of course. But what > fraction of users really do? It's an extra hassle. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > how would you encrypt firefox passwords? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 13:14:30 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 09:14:30 -0400 Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over In-Reply-To: <4C177B27.50203-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1650D0.1000100@alteeve.com> <20100614214032.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100615033305.arc6qoe5twkww4wc@mail.math.yorku.ca> <4C177B27.50203@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <4C177CB6.8080009@utoronto.ca> On 06/15/2010 09:07 AM, Jose wrote: > how would you encrypt firefox passwords? Firefox: Edit -> Preferences -> Security -> Use a master password Thunderbird: Edit -> Preferences -> Security -> Passwords -> Use a master password Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 14:03:55 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 10:03:55 -0400 Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over In-Reply-To: <4C16D882.40303-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1650D0.1000100@alteeve.com> <20100614214032.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4C16D882.40303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20100615140355.GK17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 09:33:54PM -0400, Digimer wrote: > On 10-06-14 05:40 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:54:56AM -0400, Digimer wrote: >>> This isn't a virus in the traditional sense. It didn't spread, it was >>> embedded in a package. It's still a big deal, but it should be discussed >>> for what it is. >> >> And it only has access as the user you ran the server as. Now if you >> ran it as root, then you are of course an idiot. :) >> >> Or if you ran it as your regular user with sudo privileges that so many >> distributions seem fond of these days. > > Though, 'sudo' alone isn't a problem... 'sudo' with 'nopasswd' is. Yeah that's the one I meant. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 15:03:44 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:03:44 -0400 Subject: MAME - The Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. Message-ID: I've started the ball rolling regarding doing a MAME GTALug page here: http://gtalug.org/wiki/MAME There is a lot of possible room for improvement on the above... (hint, hint) Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 15:09:26 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:09:26 -0400 Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over In-Reply-To: <4C177B27.50203-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1650D0.1000100@alteeve.com> <20100614214032.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100615033305.arc6qoe5twkww4wc@mail.math.yorku.ca> <4C177B27.50203@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Jose wrote: > how would you encrypt firefox passwords? It's in the menus there somewhere :-). I'm not certain how useful it is to do so. On the one hand, it's practical to try to fairly seriously secure information used by an inherently interactive process (e.g. - web browser) and, from a user's perspective, this isn't difficult to manage the way it is for services. (Contrast with trying to do this with a DBMS, where the service is expected to start up automatically at boot time... If you had to write out the secure credentials somewhere that the boot process can get at them, then security has "poof!" evaporated...) On the other hand, this shoves the vulnerability into a single place that attackers can consider quite well documented, and if the password to those passwords gets out, that's big bad mojo. So it certainly means that the Firefox folk need to work hard to "harden" that one interface. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 16:18:41 2010 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:18:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MAME - The Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like MAME but is it really GTALUG related? I'll add some content after I go see "The A-Team" this afternoon. Ken B. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Colin McGregor wrote: > I've started the ball rolling regarding doing a MAME GTALug page here: > > http://gtalug.org/wiki/MAME > > There is a lot of possible room for improvement on the above... (hint, hint) > > Colin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 16:41:30 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:41:30 -0400 Subject: MAME - The Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: > > I like MAME but is it really GTALUG related? ?I'll add some content after I > go see "The A-Team" this afternoon. On first principles, MAME is a major open source project that runs under Linux, so I have no trouble with this appearing on the GTALug wiki. I would like to see a GTALug MAME page in the same class as the MythTV page, namely a page that: - Presents an overview of the project. - Offers sources and resources of other project information. - Notes Canadian and/or GTA specific information, such as local vendors of note. Also make such points as, if building a cabinet, with coin door, most US coin acceptors will reject Canadian quarters (ie: when shopping make sure a coin acceptor can accept Canadian coins...). In fact, it was while doing yet another edit to the MythTV page that I thought, here is a project that ought to get some coverage and isn't being mentioned on the GTALug website... Colin. > Ken B. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ken O. Burtch ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 > ?"Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Colin McGregor wrote: > >> I've started the ball rolling regarding doing a MAME GTALug page here: >> >> http://gtalug.org/wiki/MAME >> >> There is a lot of possible room for improvement on the above... (hint, >> hint) >> >> Colin. >> -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 16:59:20 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:59:20 -0400 Subject: MAME - The Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: >> >> I like MAME but is it really GTALUG related? ?I'll add some content after I >> go see "The A-Team" this afternoon. > > On first principles, MAME is a major open source project that runs > under Linux, so I have no trouble with this appearing on the GTALug > wiki. I would like to see a GTALug MAME page in the same class as the > MythTV page I have no problem with mentioning it on the wiki. For there to be more than "bare mention", I'd think there needs to be some Toronto-specific matters of interest. I notice that you've put in some links to places around Toronto where one might find hardware for this, which is a bit of extra justification. I've made a few little changes: - pointbacks between MythTV and MAME pages - bit of reformatting - pointer to wikipedia page on MAME There's some risk of more material not really contributing much, and encouraging "bit rot." Adding *much* more isn't necessarily very valuable, notably if it just duplicates documentation found elsewhere. But so far, so good! And if there are big fans of MAME on this list, there could conceivably be a bounty of material to be found, though I suspect not terribly much. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 15 17:38:49 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:38:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: first four lessons of kernel programming course now up Message-ID: i've already mentioned the online kernel programming course i'm writing, and the first four lessons are available free of charge: http://www.crashcourse.ca/introduction-linux-kernel-programming/introduction-linux-kernel-programming enjoy. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 00:03:36 2010 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:03:36 -0400 Subject: android g1 dev phone for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1276646616.10473.1380296617@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi Dave, It's been a month now since you posted about your G1 dev phone, but by any chance (however slim) is it still available? And if so, how much are you asking for it? Thanks, Amanda On Tue, 18 May 2010 12:00 -0400, "Dave Cramer" wrote: > I have upgraded to a nexus one. So my G1 dev phone is up for sale. > > Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 00:08:55 2010 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:08:55 -0400 Subject: Oh geez... didn't mean to post that to the entire list. Message-ID: <1276646935.11089.1380297499@webmail.messagingengine.com> Sorry everyone! :-X Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 00:12:18 2010 From: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:12:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Open Source: Open Office.Org Writer Message-ID: I want to print various documents which are unusually wide, but to still use portrait orientation, rather than landscape. I would like to learn how to set the print margins to be as small as possible. I would especially like to minimize the right margin. With some of them, I would also like to minimize the top and bottom margins. For example, I might decide to set the right margin to 0.7" or 1.21", and the top and bottom margins to 0.5". If anyone on the T.L.U.G. or G.T.A.L.U.G. list has heard of free or open source software, and ever prints a document, please tell me how to do this. James ('Jim') E. McIntosh 416-292-8126 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 00:14:26 2010 From: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: U.S.B. speeds Message-ID: How fast is U.S.B. 1 ? How fast is U.S.B. 2 ? What is the ratio of the two speeds ? James ('Jim') E. McIntosh 416-292-8126 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 00:15:20 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:15:20 -0400 Subject: android g1 dev phone for sale In-Reply-To: <1276646616.10473.1380296617-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1276646616.10473.1380296617@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: Sorry, Long gone. Dave On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > Hi Dave, > > It's been a month now since you posted about your G1 dev phone, but by any chance (however slim) is it still available? And if so, how much are you asking for it? > > Thanks, > Amanda > > On Tue, 18 May 2010 12:00 -0400, "Dave Cramer" wrote: >> I have upgraded to a nexus one. So my G1 dev phone is up for sale. >> >> Dave >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 00:30:16 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:30:16 -0400 Subject: U.S.B. speeds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4d8d63ae87114e677e43de72915c6e9e.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Because of handshaking and protocol overhead, the effective transfer rate over USB is *much* less than the basic speed numbers would seem to indicate. It also depends on the type of transfer you are doing. I don't know exact figures, but I do remember that USB 1.0 was in effect not all that much faster than a high baud rate serial connection, in the order of 100k bytes per second. (I'm going from memory...) Peter > How fast is U.S.B. 1 ? > > How fast is U.S.B. 2 ? > > What is the ratio of the two speeds ? > > > James ('Jim') E. McIntosh > > > > 416-292-8126 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 06:57:27 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 23:57:27 -0700 Subject: Oh geez... didn't mean to post that to the entire list. In-Reply-To: <1276646935.11089.1380297499-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1276646935.11089.1380297499@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: One could post worse things than an inquiry about a rphone to a mailing list. No worried. Anyone still use IRC? I remember when the common client would paste the copy buffer after a common button. I think it was the linux-style middle-mouse that did it, which sometimes led to some fairly massive "oopses" depending on what people had in their buffer... On 2010-06-15 5:09 PM, "Amanda Yilmaz" wrote: Sorry everyone! :-X Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 09:17:07 2010 From: slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 05:17:07 -0400 Subject: U.S.B. speeds In-Reply-To: <4d8d63ae87114e677e43de72915c6e9e.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org's message of "Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:30:16 -0400") References: <4d8d63ae87114e677e43de72915c6e9e.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <87zkyvmj58.fsf@darkstar1.azurservers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org a ?crit profondement: | Because of handshaking and protocol overhead, the effective transfer rate | over USB is *much* less than the basic speed numbers would seem to | indicate. | It also depends on the type of transfer you are doing. > | I don't know exact figures, but I do remember that USB 1.0 was in effect | not all that much faster than a high baud rate serial connection, in the | order of 100k bytes per second. (I'm going from memory...) > Would this affect WiFi too? I have an Ad-Hoc net set up and the transfer is painfully slow I get around 85Kb/s There is also a wired WAN on the server USB MSI Dongle in the server using ndiswrapper Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0db0:6861 Micro Star International MSI-6861 802.11g = WiFi adapter Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub Built in Broadcom 43XX in a Lappy - again using ndiswrapper -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 11:52:18 2010 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 07:52:18 -0400 Subject: Oh geez... didn't mean to post that to the entire list. In-Reply-To: References: <1276646935.11089.1380297499@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <0BF0B9D9-4ABC-474E-9E4D-78F004EFC319@gmail.com> On 16-Jun-10, at 2:57 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > One could post worse things than an inquiry about a rphone to a > mailing list. No worried. > > Anyone still use IRC? > Every day. Probably it is the biggest share of the array of communication tools that I use. For many open source projects, IRC is a major channel (haha pun) of communication among developers, and often the devs are willing to give end user help on their main channel (or have set up a separate channel dedicated to such help). > I remember when the common client would paste the copy buffer after > a common button. I think it was the linux-style middle-mouse that > did it, which sometimes led to some fairly massive "oopses" > depending on what people had in their buffer... > What I see happening fairly frequently: IRC user has console based linux client (irssi, etc) running in screen session on linux box somewhere, ssh to linux box from wherever is convenient to actually chat and/or check scroll-back. This convenient place is sometimes just a Windows box, so stuck using PuTTY to connect to linux box. For some terrible reason I cannot fathom, default "paste" in PuTTY is the right click, so when attempting to do "normal" windows behavior of right click for context menu or some other thing, if PuTTY is in focus it cheerfully accepts the paste of whatever is in the buffer, and if such thing includes a newline/return character it gets sent immediately. Great hilarity usually follows. Perhaps we are talking about the same thing. cheers, jon > >> On 2010-06-15 5:09 PM, "Amanda Yilmaz" wrote: >> >> Sorry everyone! :-X >> >> Amanda >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 12:47:56 2010 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:47:56 -0400 Subject: U.S.B. speeds In-Reply-To: <87zkyvmj58.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK+fHhOEst38E2irXDjt672IAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <4d8d63ae87114e677e43de72915c6e9e.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <87zkyvmj58.fsf@darkstar1.azurservers.com> Message-ID: Every communication protocol has protocol overhead. The more connections deviate from a simple point-to-point communication between two and only two devices, the heavier that overhead will tend to become. As an example, the original ethernet had a physical transfer rate of 10 million bits per second, but it was widely held that the maximum useful data throughput was around 3 million bits per second. Thus data transfer rates are almost always lower than the physical bit rates (though in some cases data compression can give a higher data transfer rate than physical bit rate, but only for data with fairly high redundancy. Protocol overhead isn't the only reason for poor performance, however. It can also be the result of poor configuration (settings that don't work well with the actual connection), poor topology, inteference, signal loss and so on. These all apply to every form of communication, though the causes and sources of the problems can vary massively depending on the technology. If your problems are caused by protocol overhead, there's nothing you can do except change your connection technology. If you are experiencing significant problems from other causes, however, there will often be things you can do about it to gain significant performance improvements. There, that deals enough with the theoretical. Everyone else can deal with the practical :-) Cheers, Colin On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 5:17 AM, Slack Rat wrote: > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org a ?crit profondement: > > | Because of handshaking and protocol overhead, the effective transfer rate > | over USB is *much* less than the basic speed numbers would seem to > | indicate. > | It also depends on the type of transfer you are doing. >> > | I don't know exact figures, but I do remember that USB 1.0 was in effect > | not all that much faster than a high baud rate serial connection, in the > | order of 100k bytes per second. (I'm going from memory...) >> > Would this affect WiFi too? > > I have an Ad-Hoc net set up and the transfer is painfully slow > > I get ?around 85Kb/s > > There is also a wired WAN on the server > > USB MSI Dongle in the server using ndiswrapper > Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0db0:6861 Micro Star International MSI-6861 802.11g = > WiFi adapter > Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub > > Built in Broadcom 43XX in a Lappy - again using ndiswrapper > > -- > Slackrat > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 12:55:44 2010 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:55:44 -0400 Subject: Open Source: Open Office.Org Writer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1276692944.5785.5.camel@cougar-hardy> On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 20:12 -0400, jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org wrote: > I want to print various documents which are unusually wide, but to still > use portrait orientation, rather than landscape. > > I would like to learn how to set the print margins to be as small as > possible. Format > Page > Page | Margins I think that the margin you ask for includes the unprintable area that some printers impose. > > I would especially like to minimize the right margin. > > With some of them, I would also like to minimize the top and bottom margins. > > For example, I might decide to set the right margin to 0.7" or 1.21", and > the top and bottom margins to 0.5". > > If anyone on the T.L.U.G. or G.T.A.L.U.G. list has heard of free or open > source software, and ever prints a document, please tell me how to do > this. > > > James ('Jim') E. McIntosh > > > > 416-292-8126 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 13:04:05 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:04:05 -0400 Subject: U.S.B. speeds In-Reply-To: <4d8d63ae87114e677e43de72915c6e9e.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <4d8d63ae87114e677e43de72915c6e9e.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 15 June 2010 20:30, wrote: > Because of handshaking and protocol overhead, the effective transfer rate > over USB is *much* less than the basic speed numbers would seem to > indicate. > It also depends on the type of transfer you are doing. > > I don't know exact figures, but I do remember that USB 1.0 was in effect > not all that much faster than a high baud rate serial connection, in the > order of 100k bytes per second. (I'm going from memory...) > > Peter > >> How fast is U.S.B. 1 ? >> >> How fast is U.S.B. 2 ? >> >> What is the ratio of the two speeds ? "The actual throughput currently (2006)[update] of USB 2.0 high bandwidth attained with real-world devices is about two thirds of the maximum theoretical bulk data transfer rate of 53.248 MiB/s, a typical observation being around 28-29 MiB/s. For USB 1.1, an average transfer speed of 880 KiB/s has been observed. Typical high bandwidth USB devices operate at lower data rates, often about 3 MiB/s overall, sometimes up to 10?20 MiB/s." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb#Transfer_speeds_in_practice) >From personal experience, these "typical" numbers sound slightly low - perhaps 10%? But close enough. The downside of USB to me has always been that it sucks up all the cycles on your processor. Bleh. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 13:25:46 2010 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:25:46 -0400 Subject: U.S.B. speeds In-Reply-To: References: <4d8d63ae87114e677e43de72915c6e9e.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <87zkyvmj58.fsf@darkstar1.azurservers.com> Message-ID: <4C18D0DA.20807@the-wire.com> colin davidson wrote: [ ... ] > Protocol overhead isn't the only reason for poor performance, however. > It can also be the result of poor configuration (settings that don't > work well with the actual connection), poor topology, inteference, Kind of wandering off-topic, but an extreme example of interference got written up in "500 Wifi Networks Walk Into a Bar": Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 15:06:49 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:06:49 -0400 Subject: vlc is broken after upgrading Message-ID: <20100616150649.GA11876@yam.witteman.ca> I dist-upgraded my Debian testing system yesterday, and now I cannot view video files. It appears that the upgrade of libva to version 1.0.3-1 has killed all non-Flash video on my machine. I know that there is no simple way to downgrade via apt (the Achilles heel of Debian, IMO), but is there another way to sort this sort of thing out? Do I remove the offending package and reinstall the previous, non-broken library? Any advice would be welcome. Thanks! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 15:12:05 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:12:05 -0400 Subject: vlc is broken after upgrading In-Reply-To: <20100616150649.GA11876-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100616150649.GA11876@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4C18E9C5.6050009@utoronto.ca> On 06/16/2010 11:06 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I dist-upgraded my Debian testing system yesterday, and now I cannot > view video files. It appears that the upgrade of libva to version > 1.0.3-1 has killed all non-Flash video on my machine. I know that there > is no simple way to downgrade via apt (the Achilles heel of Debian, > IMO), but is there another way to sort this sort of thing out? Do I > remove the offending package and reinstall the previous, non-broken > library? Any advice would be welcome. Thanks! Do you have the older version in /var/cache/apt/archives? If not, I have one from June 5 that I can upload somewhere for you to grab and install manually via dpkg. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 15:28:24 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:28:24 -0400 Subject: U.S.B. speeds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C18ED98.9030804@ve3syb.ca> jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org wrote: > How fast is U.S.B. 1 ? > > How fast is U.S.B. 2 ? > > What is the ratio of the two speeds ? I think you will find all the information you want here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 15:31:24 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:31:24 -0400 Subject: U.S.B. speeds In-Reply-To: <87zkyvmj58.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK+fHhOEst38E2irXDjt672IAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <4d8d63ae87114e677e43de72915c6e9e.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <87zkyvmj58.fsf@darkstar1.azurservers.com> Message-ID: <4C18EE4C.8070708@ve3syb.ca> Slack Rat wrote: > Would this affect WiFi too? > > I have an Ad-Hoc net set up and the transfer is painfully slow Any device connected as a USB peripheral will have the USB speed limits imposed on it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 15:48:47 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:48:47 -0400 Subject: vlc is broken after upgrading In-Reply-To: <20100616150649.GA11876-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100616150649.GA11876@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On 16 June 2010 11:06, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I dist-upgraded my Debian testing system yesterday, and now I cannot > view video files. ?It appears that the upgrade of libva to version > 1.0.3-1 has killed all non-Flash video on my machine. ?I know that there > is no simple way to downgrade via apt (the Achilles heel of Debian, > IMO), but is there another way to sort this sort of thing out? ?Do I > remove the offending package and reinstall the previous, non-broken > library? ?Any advice would be welcome. ?Thanks! Debian testing recently pushed an mpg321 package that segfaulted on play for all songs on certain platforms - it certainly affected me on amd64. I looked it up on google and discovered that the problem with the package had been found while the package was on unstable, and had been patched. Then they'd pushed the broken one to testing - good plan. So I ended up downloading the "unstable" mpg321 package by hand and installing it - worked fine. This is a possible solution for you, but only if the unstable vlc is a) different, b) working and c) doesn't require a cascade of library changes. When I started using Debian testing as my primary distro six or seven years ago I had a lot less problems with it: in the last eight or nine months testing has been pushing a lot of shoddy packages, and it's been making me pretty unhappy. I realize it's called "testing" because it's NOT "stable," but past history and stability has raised my expectations. And I really, really don't want to go to "stable": too much of it is too old - so I guess I suffer with testing or change distros ... I absolutely agree that apt's inability to roll back packages is a weakness (still better than rpm/yum though, although the latter has improved). I'd like to be able to run "full-upgrade" frequently to maintain the security of my system, but back out the occasional problem package. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 17:07:28 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:07:28 -0400 Subject: MAME - The Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: >>> >>> I like MAME but is it really GTALUG related? ?I'll add some content after I >>> go see "The A-Team" this afternoon. >> >> On first principles, MAME is a major open source project that runs >> under Linux, so I have no trouble with this appearing on the GTALug >> wiki. I would like to see a GTALug MAME page in the same class as the >> MythTV page > > I have no problem with mentioning it on the wiki. > > For there to be more than "bare mention", I'd think there needs to be > some Toronto-specific matters of interest. ?I notice that you've put > in some links to places around Toronto where one might find hardware > for this, which is a bit of extra justification. > > I've made a few little changes: > - pointbacks between MythTV and MAME pages > - bit of reformatting > - pointer to wikipedia page on MAME > > There's some risk of more material not really contributing much, and > encouraging "bit rot." ?Adding *much* more isn't necessarily very > valuable, notably if it just duplicates documentation found elsewhere. > ?But so far, so good! ?And if there are big fans of MAME on this list, > there could conceivably be a bounty of material to be found, though I > suspect not terribly much. Good stuff... Quick question, has anyone on this list built a MAME cabinet (or taken an old video game cabinet and refurbished it to play MAME)? If so, I would love to pick your brain for a bit :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 17:13:48 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:13:48 -0700 Subject: Oh geez... didn't mean to post that to the entire list. In-Reply-To: <0BF0B9D9-4ABC-474E-9E4D-78F004EFC319-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1276646935.11089.1380297499@webmail.messagingengine.com> <0BF0B9D9-4ABC-474E-9E4D-78F004EFC319@gmail.com> Message-ID: That was back when I still used windows and I think mircx as a client. I believe the paste button was middleclick or something like that. It really kinda sucked the time I bumped "paste" when I had an email to my GF in the paste buffer... On 2010-06-16 4:53 AM, "Jon" wrote: On 16-Jun-10, at 2:57 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > One could post worse things than an inquiry about a ... Every day. Probably it is the biggest share of the array of communication tools that I use. For many open source projects, IRC is a major channel (haha pun) of communication among developers, and often the devs are willing to give end user help on their main channel (or have set up a separate channel dedicated to such help). > I remember when the common client would paste the copy buffer after a common button. I think it ... What I see happening fairly frequently: IRC user has console based linux client (irssi, etc) running in screen session on linux box somewhere, ssh to linux box from wherever is convenient to actually chat and/or check scroll-back. This convenient place is sometimes just a Windows box, so stuck using PuTTY to connect to linux box. For some terrible reason I cannot fathom, default "paste" in PuTTY is the right click, so when attempting to do "normal" windows behavior of right click for context menu or some other thing, if PuTTY is in focus it cheerfully accepts the paste of whatever is in the buffer, and if such thing includes a newline/return character it gets sent immediately. Great hilarity usually follows. Perhaps we are talking about the same thing. cheers, jon > >> On 2010-06-15 5:09 PM, "Amanda Yilmaz" wrote: >> >> Sorry everyone! :-X... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 17:15:52 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:15:52 -0700 Subject: MAME - The Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just finished gutting and rebuilding an arcade cabinet with a linux-based MAME setup actually. Still trying to find an optimal front-end for a "no keyboarf no mouse" experience though On 2010-06-16 10:08 AM, "Colin McGregor" wrote: On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Jun 15, 2... Good stuff... Quick question, has anyone on this list built a MAME cabinet (or taken an old video game cabinet and refurbished it to play MAME)? If so, I would love to pick your brain for a bit :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 17:51:43 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:51:43 -0400 Subject: MAME - The Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I just finished gutting and rebuilding an arcade cabinet with a linux-based > MAME setup actually. Still trying to find an optimal front-end for a "no > keyboarf no mouse" experience though Cool. Okay some questions: - How did you get your arcade cabinet? If there is a shop (or shops) in the GTA that sell used arcade machines suitable for conversion I would love to include them on the GTALug MAME page. - Where did you get parts to fix / refurbish your cabinet? Again something for the Wiki... - What sort of CPU are you using to drive the cabinet and how does it perform on games from say the 1990s (ie: I would love to see advice on how good (or bad) a machine you can use to drive a MAME system). Colin. > On 2010-06-16 10:08 AM, "Colin McGregor" wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Christopher Browne > wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 15, 2... > > Good stuff... Quick question, has anyone on this list built a MAME > cabinet (or taken an old video game cabinet and refurbished it to play > MAME)? If so, I would love to pick your brain for a bit :-) . > > Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 17:56:47 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:56:47 -0400 Subject: sunrays and linux? Message-ID: hi, I've been offered a bunch of sun ray 150's and sun ray 1gs by a donor, and wondered whether list users had any experience using these thin client machines, which sun produced in the first hears of the millennium. I do have something of a fantasy of setting up a thin-client computer lab, but these machiens are old enough that I'm not sure they can really handle a modern distro. Or, framing my ignorance in another way, I wonder whether he bandwidth required to serve everything over 10/100 ethernet is so great as to require expensive server and switching infrastructure (since everything I build happens on no budget, that could be a deal breaker). I would love to hear about any experiences folks have had. Thanks in advance, Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 18:08:16 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:08:16 -0700 Subject: MAME - The Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have an album here. It's pretty hastily thrown up on FB though, without rotating or a step-through. Later I'll post it on my webpage http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=184403&id=585701916&l=3af18b43c3 They don't reflect all the recent changes, but covers the basics. The thing was in deep need of some TLC/cleaning when I got it. On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> I just finished gutting and rebuilding an arcade cabinet with a linux-based >> MAME setup actually. Still trying to find an optimal front-end for a "no >> keyboarf no mouse" experience though > > Cool. > > Okay some questions: > > - How did you get your arcade cabinet? If there is a shop (or shops) > in the GTA that sell used arcade machines suitable for conversion I > would love to include them on the GTALug MAME page. > I actually bought mine off a co-worker's son, who happened to be one of those packrat types that had collected a few old cabinets (that was the only one he's sell though). > - Where did you get parts to fix / refurbish your cabinet? Again > something for the Wiki... I gutted the internals, including the power supply, boards, speakers, and a rather heavy old CRT, etc. I kept the frame, joystick/buttons, coin-door assembly, etc. The computer stuff just came from a normal PC, of course, and a pair of powered speakers to replace the one that was amp'ed by the internal power supply. I still need to replace the backlight on the sign (the ballast appears to be dead) and print up something "prettier" with colour as well for that. I used an LCD that I found at Active Surplus quite a long time ago. It was already out of the bezel etc so it worked nicely after I figured out the modelines. To interface with the PC, I picked up a "I-PAC 2" from ultimarc.com. That can be wired to the buttons (common ground, and one wire per each) and then acts like a keyboard giving off MAME-friendly codes. The only real work I had to do was wiring it up properly, and adding a UDEV entry to set permissions correctly. http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html They also have an "economy" version of the I-PAC, which is similar but with less inputs and you can't permanently save button layout changes (but the defaults worked just fine for me anyhow). > > - What sort of CPU are you using to drive the cabinet and how does it > perform on games from say the 1990s (ie: I would love to see advice on > how good (or bad) a machine you can use to drive a MAME system). > > Colin. I believe it was a 2.5Ghz Celeron. I haven't found anything that it won't run as of yet. I've played with MAME running on a 1Ghz Via EPIA, and most stuff even ran OK on that. Now if anyone can recommend a UI that works well with the joysticks etc so I can dump the mouse... that'd be awesome. Let me know if you need more info. - TJA > >> On 2010-06-16 10:08 AM, "Colin McGregor" wrote: >> >> On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Christopher Browne >> wrote: >>> On Tue, Jun 15, 2... >> >> Good stuff... Quick question, has anyone on this list built a MAME >> cabinet (or taken an old video game cabinet and refurbished it to play >> MAME)? If so, I would love to pick your brain for a bit :-) . >> >> Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 18:15:14 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 14:15:14 -0400 Subject: sunrays and linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 1:56 PM, Matt Price wrote: > hi, > > I've been offered a bunch of sun ray 150's and sun ray 1gs by a donor, > and wondered whether list users had any experience using these thin > client machines, which sun produced in the first hears of the > millennium. ?I do have something of a fantasy of setting up a > thin-client computer lab, but these machiens are old enough that I'm > not sure they can really handle a modern distro. ?Or, framing my > ignorance in another way, I wonder whether he bandwidth required to > serve everything over 10/100 ethernet is so great as to require > expensive server and switching infrastructure (since everything I > build happens on no budget, that could be a deal breaker). I've played a bit with thin clients, but not with the Sun Ray. Sun is still producing a version of the Sun Ray (the Sun Ray 3). To support Sun Rays you need the Sun Ray server software, which is available from Sun for Solaris, plus RHEL and SUSE Linux. So, on a ZERO budget, get a copy of Centos download the Sun Ray server software and have fun... Colin. > I would love to hear about any experiences folks have had. ?Thanks in advance, > > Matt > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 18:29:57 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 14:29:57 -0400 Subject: kernel panics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hi Rob, thanks for the help! I'm doing what I can through the bug report mechanisms in Ubuntu -- seems like it'll likely take a while but hopefully it'll get worked out in he end. matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 18:34:35 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 14:34:35 -0400 Subject: MAME - The Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100616143435.bd896890.tleslie@tcn.net> what size is that crt? and is there mag. and mirror or something that makes it look bigger in the cabinet? The button issue? isn't it just as easy as mapping the joystick port buttons (assuming you have that on the mobo, to the buttons on the game?), yeah having it go to mouse/kb really would make it sux. I would love to do this too. I have a 21" view sonic crt here doing nothing, and it may make a good crt to put in one of these? As well i have mobo's of needed power just laying around collecting dust. Colin, I didn't see to many games in your links. Is it the case do to legality, that you really have to dig for them? Was nice to see some games even of recent vintage (i.e. 2000) posted. Definitely a cool project for the rec-room, to re-live the arcade days of my youth, without actually having 20 physical units (in the rec-room). Now of course there is all the chatter of the 3d games (and crt/tv) just being released now. Maybe some one will mod these games (and MAME) to put out 3D versions of some of them, would be quite wild, not sure how easy it is to get in an modify MAME game code .. if its all roms, of essentially machine code .. I want to re-live the arcade playing of my youth (in my rec-room), but not the assembly language programming (of my youth), that I DO NOT miss! :) tl On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:08:16 -0700 Tyler Aviss wrote: > I have an album here. It's pretty hastily thrown up on FB though, > without rotating or a step-through. Later I'll post it on my webpage > > http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=184403&id=585701916&l=3af18b43c3 > > They don't reflect all the recent changes, but covers the basics. The > thing was in deep need of some TLC/cleaning when I got it. > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> I just finished gutting and rebuilding an arcade cabinet with a linux-based > >> MAME setup actually. Still trying to find an optimal front-end for a "no > >> keyboarf no mouse" experience though > > > > Cool. > > > > Okay some questions: > > > > - How did you get your arcade cabinet? If there is a shop (or shops) > > in the GTA that sell used arcade machines suitable for conversion I > > would love to include them on the GTALug MAME page. > > > > I actually bought mine off a co-worker's son, who happened to be one > of those packrat types that had collected a few old cabinets (that was > the only one he's sell though). > > > - Where did you get parts to fix / refurbish your cabinet? Again > > something for the Wiki... > > > I gutted the internals, including the power supply, boards, speakers, > and a rather heavy old CRT, etc. I kept the frame, joystick/buttons, > coin-door assembly, etc. > > The computer stuff just came from a normal PC, of course, and a pair > of powered speakers to replace the one that was amp'ed by the internal > power supply. I still need to replace the backlight on the sign (the > ballast appears to be dead) and print up something "prettier" with > colour as well for that. > > I used an LCD that I found at Active Surplus quite a long time ago. It > was already out of the bezel etc so it worked nicely after I figured > out the modelines. > > To interface with the PC, I picked up a "I-PAC 2" from ultimarc.com. > That can be wired to the buttons (common ground, and one wire per > each) and then acts like a keyboard giving off MAME-friendly codes. > The only real work I had to do was wiring it up properly, and adding a > UDEV entry to set permissions correctly. > > http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html > > They also have an "economy" version of the I-PAC, which is similar but > with less inputs and you can't permanently save button layout changes > (but the defaults worked just fine for me anyhow). > > > > > - What sort of CPU are you using to drive the cabinet and how does it > > perform on games from say the 1990s (ie: I would love to see advice on > > how good (or bad) a machine you can use to drive a MAME system). > > > > Colin. > > I believe it was a 2.5Ghz Celeron. I haven't found anything that it > won't run as of yet. > I've played with MAME running on a 1Ghz Via EPIA, and most stuff even > ran OK on that. > > > Now if anyone can recommend a UI that works well with the joysticks > etc so I can dump the mouse... that'd be awesome. > > > Let me know if you need more info. > > - TJA > > > > >> On 2010-06-16 10:08 AM, "Colin McGregor" wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Christopher Browne > >> wrote: > >>> On Tue, Jun 15, 2... > >> > >> Good stuff... Quick question, has anyone on this list built a MAME > >> cabinet (or taken an old video game cabinet and refurbished it to play > >> MAME)? If so, I would love to pick your brain for a bit :-) . > >> > >> Colin McGregor > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA > > ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 19:23:07 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:23:07 -0400 Subject: U.S.B. speeds In-Reply-To: <4d8d63ae87114e677e43de72915c6e9e.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <4d8d63ae87114e677e43de72915c6e9e.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20100616192307.GL17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 08:30:16PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Because of handshaking and protocol overhead, the effective transfer rate > over USB is *much* less than the basic speed numbers would seem to > indicate. > It also depends on the type of transfer you are doing. > > I don't know exact figures, but I do remember that USB 1.0 was in effect > not all that much faster than a high baud rate serial connection, in the > order of 100k bytes per second. (I'm going from memory...) No, it easily outran a parallel port, so more like 800KB to 1000KB/sec. There is overhead but it's not THAT high. A serial port typically only did 115200bps, so 115kbps. A lot less than 12Mbps no matter how bad the overhead is. USB1 has a 1.5Mbit and a 12Mbit speed. It also has different transfer modes. Some have more overhead than others. Some are only for bulk transfers, while others are for low latency. USB2 added a 480Mbit speed to the other two. USB3 adds a 4800Mbit speed on a seperate full duplex link. The old link is still USB2. So the ratios are: 1:8:320:3200 (low speed:fullspeed:highspeed:superspeed) USB1 and 2 is half duplex using a single differential link for all transfers. USB3 uses the same wires for USB1 and 2 conenctions, but has two new differential pairs for transmit/receive full duplex at 4.8Gbps. So USB1/2 connectors have 4 pins. USB3 has 8 pins. The new pins do not interfere with old devices, so USB3 devices can plug into USB1 or 2 ports and work as long as the device supports USB1/2 (hopoefully most will unless they want a very small market), and USB1/2 devices can connect to USB3 ports. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 19:25:44 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:25:44 -0400 Subject: U.S.B. speeds In-Reply-To: References: <4d8d63ae87114e677e43de72915c6e9e.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <87zkyvmj58.fsf@darkstar1.azurservers.com> Message-ID: <20100616192544.GM17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 08:47:56AM -0400, colin davidson wrote: > Every communication protocol has protocol overhead. The more > connections deviate from a simple point-to-point communication between > two and only two devices, the heavier that overhead will tend to > become. As an example, the original ethernet had a physical transfer > rate of 10 million bits per second, but it was widely held that the > maximum useful data throughput was around 3 million bits per second. > Thus data transfer rates are almost always lower than the physical bit > rates (though in some cases data compression can give a higher data > transfer rate than physical bit rate, but only for data with fairly > high redundancy. Once people got switches (instead of hubs or worse yet coax cables), the full rate became perfectly easy to achive. > Protocol overhead isn't the only reason for poor performance, however. > It can also be the result of poor configuration (settings that don't > work well with the actual connection), poor topology, inteference, > signal loss and so on. These all apply to every form of communication, > though the causes and sources of the problems can vary massively > depending on the technology. > > If your problems are caused by protocol overhead, there's nothing you > can do except change your connection technology. If you are > experiencing significant problems from other causes, however, there > will often be things you can do about it to gain significant > performance improvements. > > There, that deals enough with the theoretical. Everyone else can deal > with the practical :-) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 19:28:03 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:28:03 -0400 Subject: U.S.B. speeds In-Reply-To: <4C18EE4C.8070708-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4d8d63ae87114e677e43de72915c6e9e.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <87zkyvmj58.fsf@darkstar1.azurservers.com> <4C18EE4C.8070708@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20100616192803.GN17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:31:24AM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > Slack Rat wrote: >> Would this affect WiFi too? >> >> I have an Ad-Hoc net set up and the transfer is painfully slow > > Any device connected as a USB peripheral will have the USB speed limits > imposed on it. Still a USB2 port can handle 480Mbps (so practically it should do 320Mbps given USB's typical 1/3 encoding/overhead waste). That should be plenty for a wifi adapter. Now if the adapter has a crap signal, it could get slow. If the user has not turned on EHCI support and is hence running the port in USB1 mode, well that too would cause a big slow down (since USB1 limits at 12Mbps, rather than 480). Still even USB1 would not explain 89KB/s. That sounds more like a crappy signal. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 19:32:34 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:32:34 -0400 Subject: MAME - The Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. In-Reply-To: <20100616143435.bd896890.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100616143435.bd896890.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 2:34 PM, ted leslie wrote: > what size is that crt? and is there mag. and mirror or something that makes it look bigger in the > cabinet? > > The button issue? isn't it just as easy as mapping the joystick port buttons (assuming you have that on the > mobo, to the buttons on the game?), yeah having it go to mouse/kb really would make it sux. > > I would love to do this too. I have a 21" view sonic crt here doing nothing, and it may make a good > crt to put in one of these? As well i have mobo's of needed power just laying around collecting dust. > > Colin, I didn't see to many games in your links. Is it the case do to legality, that you really have to > dig for them? Was nice to see some games even of recent vintage (i.e. 2000) posted. I have listed all the games that I am aware of that are available as free downloads with the approval of the copyright holder (if there are any others out there that I have not listed, please add them or let me know about them). Some other games have been sold on CD by the copyright holders to game fans. But bottom line with this project is that while MAME supports roughly 8,000 games, the only way to get the vast majority of those games, without fear of lawsuit, is to at least acquire the original ROM chips that were in the game machine in question. Semi off topic, recently I was asked in an online survey if I had copied / forwarded published book / magazine articles. Not sure who was running the survey or why. Still I answered that yes, in the past year I have copied / distributed magazine articles. What was not asked, thus not answered, was if I had the permission of the copyright holder, The only articles I copied / distributed were ones that I wrote for publication, (so I had the permission of the copyright holder (me!)). Still, I wonder if I might see some "big" study announcing rampant copyright infringement in Canada, or worse, get sued for infringing on one Colin McGregor's copyright ... So, if I seem to be tap dancing around the question of copyright material ... well there is a reason ... > Definitely a cool project for the rec-room, to re-live the arcade days of my youth, without actually > having 20 physical units (in the rec-room). > > Now of course there is all the chatter of the 3d games (and crt/tv) just being released now. > Maybe some one will mod these games (and MAME) to put out 3D versions of some of them, would be quite wild, > not sure how easy it is to get in an modify MAME game code .. if its all roms, of essentially machine code .. > I want to re-live the arcade playing of my youth (in my rec-room), but not the assembly language programming > (of my youth), that I DO NOT miss! :) MAME's job is to mimic old game machine hardware, so its job is just to run old machine code. If you wanted 3-D games you would have to modify both MAME (which is open source) and the game ROMs as well (which are closed source). Bottom line, might be an interesting intellectual exercise, but not very practical... Colin. > tl > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:08:16 -0700 > Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> I have an album here. It's pretty hastily thrown up on FB though, >> without rotating or a step-through. Later I'll post it on my webpage >> >> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=184403&id=585701916&l=3af18b43c3 >> >> They don't reflect all the recent changes, but covers the basics. The >> thing was in deep need of some TLC/cleaning when I got it. >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> I just finished gutting and rebuilding an arcade cabinet with a linux-based >> >> MAME setup actually. Still trying to find an optimal front-end for a "no >> >> keyboarf no mouse" experience though >> > >> > Cool. >> > >> > Okay some questions: >> > >> > - How did you get your arcade cabinet? If there is a shop (or shops) >> > in the GTA that sell used arcade machines suitable for conversion I >> > would love to include them on the GTALug MAME page. >> > >> >> I actually bought mine off a co-worker's son, who happened to be one >> of those packrat types that had collected a few old cabinets (that was >> the only one he's sell though). >> >> > - Where did you get parts to fix / refurbish your cabinet? Again >> > something for the Wiki... >> >> >> I gutted the internals, including the power supply, boards, speakers, >> and a rather heavy old CRT, etc. I kept the frame, joystick/buttons, >> coin-door assembly, etc. >> >> The computer stuff just came from a normal PC, of course, and a pair >> of powered speakers to replace the one that was amp'ed by the internal >> power supply. I still need to replace the backlight on the sign (the >> ballast appears to be dead) and print up something "prettier" with >> colour as well for that. >> >> I used an LCD that I found at Active Surplus quite a long time ago. It >> was already out of the bezel etc so it worked nicely after I figured >> out the modelines. >> >> To interface with the PC, I picked up a "I-PAC 2" from ultimarc.com. >> That can be wired to the buttons (common ground, and one wire per >> each) and then acts like a keyboard giving off MAME-friendly codes. >> The only real work I had to do was wiring it up properly, and adding a >> UDEV entry to set permissions correctly. >> >> http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html >> >> They also have an "economy" version of the I-PAC, which is similar but >> with less inputs and you can't permanently save button layout changes >> (but the defaults worked just fine for me anyhow). >> >> > >> > - What sort of CPU are you using to drive the cabinet and how does it >> > perform on games from say the 1990s (ie: I would love to see advice on >> > how good (or bad) a machine you can use to drive a MAME system). >> > >> > Colin. >> >> I believe it was a 2.5Ghz Celeron. I haven't found anything that it >> won't run as of yet. >> I've played with MAME running on a 1Ghz Via EPIA, and most stuff even >> ran OK on that. >> >> >> Now if anyone can recommend a UI that works well with the joysticks >> etc so I can dump the mouse... that'd be awesome. >> >> >> Let me know if you need more info. >> >> - TJA >> >> > >> >> On 2010-06-16 10:08 AM, "Colin McGregor" wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Christopher Browne >> >> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Jun 15, 2... >> >> >> >> Good stuff... Quick question, has anyone on this list built a MAME >> >> cabinet (or taken an old video game cabinet and refurbished it to play >> >> MAME)? If so, I would love to pick your brain for a bit :-) . >> >> >> >> Colin McGregor >> > -- >> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Tyler Aviss >> Systems Support >> LPIC/LPIC-2/CLA >> >> ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 19:40:14 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:40:14 -0400 Subject: MAME - The Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. In-Reply-To: <20100616143435.bd896890.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100616143435.bd896890.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20100616194014.GO17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 02:34:35PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > what size is that crt? and is there mag. and mirror or something that makes it look bigger in the > cabinet? > > The button issue? isn't it just as easy as mapping the joystick port buttons (assuming you have that on the > mobo, to the buttons on the game?), yeah having it go to mouse/kb really would make it sux. > > I would love to do this too. I have a 21" view sonic crt here doing nothing, and it may make a good > crt to put in one of these? As well i have mobo's of needed power just laying around collecting dust. > > Colin, I didn't see to many games in your links. Is it the case do to legality, that you really have to > dig for them? Was nice to see some games even of recent vintage (i.e. 2000) posted. Certainly the legality is a big problem. The general opinion seems to be that if you own the real arcade system, you should be allowed to play with a rom copy of that system, and otherwise you probably should not. Of course lots of people don't care and have copies of lots of games anyhow. Of course to some extent the fact that you probably can not buy these games from anyone anywhere makes the illegal copies the only way to get those games. Occationally some old games do become available for purchase (dragon's lair and similar games in that series can be bought on DVD and for PC now for example). The one site I know of that provides access to lots of old video game code uses the policy that if it can be purchased, they will not be distributing it but will instead point to where you can legally purchase it. They of course use bittorrent to distribute the files. The site is http://www.pleasuredome.org.uk. For example they used to have the laser disk dumps of dragon's lair and such. When the rights where bought up and the game released for purchase, they immediately deleted them from the site and put links to the place you can now buy the games. So what they do is probably not legal, while on the otherhand to a large extent the stuff they do distribute is abbandoned and the owners are in many cases not in existance anymore. Whenever it isn't abbandoned and is available again, they stop providing it. It seems like a decent compromise, even if it is technically illegal in some places. > Definitely a cool project for the rec-room, to re-live the arcade days of my youth, without actually > having 20 physical units (in the rec-room). > > Now of course there is all the chatter of the 3d games (and crt/tv) just being released now. > Maybe some one will mod these games (and MAME) to put out 3D versions of some of them, would be quite wild, > not sure how easy it is to get in an modify MAME game code .. if its all roms, of essentially machine code .. > I want to re-live the arcade playing of my youth (in my rec-room), but not the assembly language programming > (of my youth), that I DO NOT miss! :) It's all roms. MAME emulates the original hardware as accurately as possible. The original rom code runs on the emulated hardware. Some games have multiple roms, some with sprite data or character data or sound effects. Some games had harddisks instead, for which MAME uses .chd (compressed hard disk) files. I believe the laser disk games are also stored as .chd files as are some CDROM based games. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 19:41:08 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: sunrays and linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Matt Price | I've been offered a bunch of sun ray 150's and sun ray 1gs by a donor, The Sun Ray 150 includes a 15" 1024x768 display. If that is good enough for your users, then it sounds like a good deal. There is a chance that screen painting might be sluggish. Experiment to find out. X has been shedding network transparency in its recent extensions. I hope that that hasn't become a problem. | and wondered whether list users had any experience using these thin | client machines, which sun produced in the first hears of the | millennium. I do have something of a fantasy of setting up a | thin-client computer lab, but these machiens are old enough that I'm | not sure they can really handle a modern distro. I've not used Sun Rays. From what I've read, these are thin clients and that all you need a matching bit of software on the host side. That software existed for Linux. I don't know if it exists and is free for arbitrary distros. | Or, framing my | ignorance in another way, I wonder whether he bandwidth required to | serve everything over 10/100 ethernet is so great as to require | expensive server and switching infrastructure (since everything I | build happens on no budget, that could be a deal breaker). Surely it is 100 megabit. Should be enough. I don't know how many can be served on a 100 megabit segmaent. If you wish to serve more than that, run more than one segment (using more than one ethernet port on your server). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 20:02:37 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 16:02:37 -0400 Subject: sunrays and linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C192DDD.4030004@dinamis.com> On 06/16/2010 03:41 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I don't know how many can be served on a 100 megabit segmaent. If you > wish to serve more than that, run more than one segment (using more > than one ethernet port on your server). The mention of network saturation reminded me of a situation at an organization that I help where they were getting random timeouts while checking their email since last Friday. Of course, the first thing that they suspected was the IPCop firewall. I logged in remotely and saw that the load average was essentially nothing. Looking at the traffic graphs explained what was going on. There were two spikes yesterday where on the second one, 10Mb/s Sympatico connection must have been saturated. I outlined a troubleshooting procedure to isolate the computer(s) that were responsible for this traffic. The solution turned out to be much simpler. We simply asked staff if they were doing anything unusual and apparently, a few of them were watching soccer via a streaming download. I wouldn't be surprised if they were doing HD as well. That was enough to bring the network to its knees. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 16 21:41:05 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 17:41:05 -0400 Subject: MAME - The Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 16 June 2010 14:08, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I have an album here. It's pretty hastily thrown up on FB though, > without rotating or a step-through. Later I'll post it on my webpage > > http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=184403&id=585701916&l=3af18b43c3 > > They don't reflect all the recent changes, but covers the basics. The > thing was in deep need of some TLC/cleaning when I got it. > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >>> I just finished gutting and rebuilding an arcade cabinet with a linux-based >>> MAME setup actually. Still trying to find an optimal front-end for a "no >>> keyboarf no mouse" experience though >> >> Cool. >> >> Okay some questions: >> >> - How did you get your arcade cabinet? If there is a shop (or shops) >> in the GTA that sell used arcade machines suitable for conversion I >> would love to include them on the GTALug MAME page. >> > > I actually bought mine off a co-worker's son, who happened to be one > of those packrat types that had collected a few old cabinets (that was > the only one he's sell though). > >> - Where did you get parts to fix / refurbish your cabinet? Again >> something for the Wiki... > > > I gutted the internals, including the power supply, boards, speakers, > and a rather heavy old CRT, etc. I kept the frame, joystick/buttons, > coin-door assembly, etc. > > The computer stuff just came from a normal PC, of course, and a pair > of powered speakers to replace the one that was amp'ed by the internal > power supply. I still need to replace the backlight on the sign (the > ballast appears to be dead) and print up something "prettier" with > colour as well for that. > > I used an LCD that I found at Active Surplus quite a long time ago. It > was already out of the bezel etc so it worked nicely after I figured > out the modelines. > > To interface with the PC, I picked up a "I-PAC 2" from ultimarc.com. > That can be wired to the buttons (common ground, and one wire per > each) and then acts like a keyboard giving off MAME-friendly codes. > The only real work I had to do was wiring it up properly, and adding a > UDEV entry to set permissions correctly. > > http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html > > They also have an "economy" version of the I-PAC, which is similar but > with less inputs and you can't permanently save button layout changes > (but the defaults worked just fine for me anyhow). > >> >> - What sort of CPU are you using to drive the cabinet and how does it >> perform on games from say the 1990s (ie: I would love to see advice on >> how good (or bad) a machine you can use to drive a MAME system). >> >> Colin. > > I believe it was a 2.5Ghz Celeron. I haven't found anything that it > won't run as of yet. > I've played with MAME running on a 1Ghz Via EPIA, and most stuff even > ran OK on that. > > > Now if anyone can recommend a UI that works well with the joysticks > etc so I can dump the mouse... that'd be awesome. > > > Let me know if you need more info. > > - TJA > >> >>> On 2010-06-16 10:08 AM, "Colin McGregor" wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Christopher Browne >>> wrote: >>>> On Tue, Jun 15, 2... >>> >>> Good stuff... Quick question, has anyone on this list built a MAME >>> cabinet (or taken an old video game cabinet and refurbished it to play >>> MAME)? If so, I would love to pick your brain for a bit :-) . >>> Tyler, if you were willing to do a GTALUG presentation on setting up a MAME cabinet (I'd love to hear about both the software and the physical side of it!) I would be at the absolute front of the line to attend that presentation ... -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 02:33:34 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 22:33:34 -0400 Subject: Bashing my head against createrepo on F13 Message-ID: <4C19897E.2000900@alteeve.com> Hi all, I'm trying to make a custom Fedora 13 DVD and *almost* everything is done. I've got good kickstarts, I've got Packages just the way I like, but I can't get 'repodata' updated properly. Can someone tell me what the magic incantation is to update the contents of dvd:/repodata/ to match the updated package list in dvd:/Packages? Thanks! -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 03:16:53 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:16:53 -0700 Subject: linux cisco vpn client Message-ID: howdy everybody i am trying to get the cisco vpn client working in linux (CentOS), and run into trouble (i think) at the compilation stage; CC [M] /home/timhildred/vpnclient/interceptor.o seems to fail, though the rest of the compile finishes fine. i can import a cert foo.pfx, have edited the profile to reflect the relevant details. when i do a vpnclient connect profilename it asks me for the cert password, then instantly bails saying that the connection was terminated locally and that the reason was it couldnt connect to vpn service. firewall is disabled. any ideas? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 04:39:23 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 00:39:23 -0400 Subject: Hard drive making ominous clicking sounds Message-ID: <20100617043923.GA26824@waltdnes.org> And when it does, the drive light flashes, and programs freeze for a couple of seconds. I've done the necessary updating to bring my backup machine online as a full replacement, so I'm OK for now. Does this sound like a hard drive about to die? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 04:38:42 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 00:38:42 -0400 Subject: Hard drive making ominous clicking sounds In-Reply-To: <20100617043923.GA26824-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617043923.GA26824@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Tick or a click? Could be the needle bouncing off On 2010-06-16 9:37 PM, "Walter Dnes" wrote: And when it does, the drive light flashes, and programs freeze for a couple of seconds. I've done the necessary updating to bring my backup machine online as a full replacement, so I'm OK for now. Does this sound like a hard drive about to die? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 05:07:03 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:07:03 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill Message-ID: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> Any custom system-builders in the North York / Thornhill area? As I mentioned in another thread, I may be having hardware problems with a machine. This could be my excuse to get a real 64-bit system. My first reaction was to look at Dell's website. The problem is, when you get to 8 gigabytes, they only offer 2 consumer systems. And those are loaded with mandatory crud like a 23 or 24 inch monitor, and a super-duper ATI Radeon video card. Paying extra is one thing; but I draw the line at cutting corners on the basics in order to get extra stuff I don't want/need. I'm looking at getting a machine with 8 gigs of RAM and integrated ethernet/GPU/sound and not much in the way of bells/whistles. I already have a monitor/keyboard/mouse/speakers, thank you. Of course, linux compatability is required. With the exception of the outsourced Poulsbo fiasco, Intel has been pretty good recently with linux compatability. I'd rather their integrated GPU than ATI or nVidia. Due to seizures years ago, I don't have a driver's licence. I live near the corner of Dufferin+Steeles, so I can take either TTC or YRT buses. That's the reason for my preference for North York or Thornhill, but I'd consider further away. I have a neighbour in our condo building who'll occasionally drive me to out-of-the-way places, and I let his relatives use my empty parking spot when they visit him, but I don't want to impose too much. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 05:52:18 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:52:18 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <20100617050703.GB26824-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4C19B812.4080406@alteeve.com> On 10-06-17 01:07 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Any custom system-builders in the North York / Thornhill area? > > As I mentioned in another thread, I may be having hardware problems > with a machine. This could be my excuse to get a real 64-bit system. > My first reaction was to look at Dell's website. The problem is, when > you get to 8 gigabytes, they only offer 2 consumer systems. And those > are loaded with mandatory crud like a 23 or 24 inch monitor, and a > super-duper ATI Radeon video card. Paying extra is one thing; but I > draw the line at cutting corners on the basics in order to get extra > stuff I don't want/need. > > I'm looking at getting a machine with 8 gigs of RAM and integrated > ethernet/GPU/sound and not much in the way of bells/whistles. I already > have a monitor/keyboard/mouse/speakers, thank you. Of course, linux > compatability is required. With the exception of the outsourced Poulsbo > fiasco, Intel has been pretty good recently with linux compatability. > I'd rather their integrated GPU than ATI or nVidia. > > Due to seizures years ago, I don't have a driver's licence. I live > near the corner of Dufferin+Steeles, so I can take either TTC or YRT > buses. That's the reason for my preference for North York or Thornhill, > but I'd consider further away. I have a neighbour in our condo building > who'll occasionally drive me to out-of-the-way places, and I let his > relatives use my empty parking spot when they visit him, but I don't > want to impose too much. I'm not in the business myself any more, but I'd like to recommend looking at online ordering the bare parts and assembling it yourself. I've purchased from Amazon.ca, and I've heard good things about Newegg.ca. There is also a CanadaComputers not too far from your area and they also do online-ordering. This would let you get exactly the parts you want and not have to worry about travel at all. Some parts/makers I'd recommend from past experience (others may offer different suggestions): - ASUS or Tyan for the mainboard. In either case, get one with an integrated video. This usually means ATI, but I've had no problem in Linux with those on-board ATIs. - Antec or Silverstone for the chassis/PSU. - Kingston or Crucial for the RAM (get DDR3, it's going down in price where DDR2 is going up). - AMD for the CPU. Better 32b support and you can get some nice low-power multi-core CPUs. - Seagate for the HDD -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 06:50:39 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 02:50:39 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <20100617050703.GB26824-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100617065039.GA3747@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 01:07:03AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Any custom system-builders in the North York / Thornhill area? > > As I mentioned in another thread, I may be having hardware problems > with a machine. This could be my excuse to get a real 64-bit system. > My first reaction was to look at Dell's website. The problem is, when > you get to 8 gigabytes, they only offer 2 consumer systems. And those > are loaded with mandatory crud like a 23 or 24 inch monitor, and a > super-duper ATI Radeon video card. Paying extra is one thing; but I > draw the line at cutting corners on the basics in order to get extra > stuff I don't want/need. > > I'm looking at getting a machine with 8 gigs of RAM and integrated > ethernet/GPU/sound and not much in the way of bells/whistles. I already > have a monitor/keyboard/mouse/speakers, thank you. Of course, linux > compatability is required. With the exception of the outsourced Poulsbo > fiasco, Intel has been pretty good recently with linux compatability. > I'd rather their integrated GPU than ATI or nVidia. > > Due to seizures years ago, I don't have a driver's licence. I live > near the corner of Dufferin+Steeles, so I can take either TTC or YRT > buses. That's the reason for my preference for North York or Thornhill, > but I'd consider further away. I have a neighbour in our condo building > who'll occasionally drive me to out-of-the-way places, and I let his > relatives use my empty parking spot when they visit him, but I don't > want to impose too much. Why not buy components, piece by piece, and assemble them at your leisure. My main peeve with Intel CPU is that I have to go to Intel's website and check out which has what features. Whereas AMD64 is pretty generic and predictable. Motherboard/RAM/CPU shouldn't be that expensive... - motherboard $100 - 8GB RAM $200 - CPU $200 ...hmmm, they add up, don't they? :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 09:56:05 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 05:56:05 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <20100617050703.GB26824-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4C19F135.90509@rogers.com> On 10-06-17 01:07 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > > Due to seizures years ago, I don't have a driver's licence. I live > near the corner of Dufferin+Steeles, so I can take either TTC or YRT > buses. That's the reason for my preference for North York or Thornhill, > but I'd consider further away. I have a neighbour in our condo building > who'll occasionally drive me to out-of-the-way places, and I let his > relatives use my empty parking spot when they visit him, but I don't > want to impose too much. > > I recommend Computers & Peripherals on Steeles, 1/2 block east of Keele. South side Google for their web site to see prices. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 11:44:36 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 07:44:36 -0400 Subject: Hard drive making ominous clicking sounds In-Reply-To: <20100617043923.GA26824-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617043923.GA26824@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 17 June 2010 00:39, Walter Dnes wrote: > ?And when it does, the drive light flashes, and programs freeze for a > couple of seconds. ?I've done the necessary updating to bring my backup > machine online as a full replacement, so I'm OK for now. ?Does this > sound like a hard drive about to die? I had one drive co-worker's drive run sounding like that for a couple years (I kid you not - we replaced the computer before the drive died). But the vast majority of drives die within 24 hours when they start making that noise. I'm very glad you have a hot backup, because that's absolutely the first thing you should do: make sure the backup is good. Good luck. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 12:37:02 2010 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 08:37:02 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <20100617050703.GB26824-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4C1A16EE.5040907@yaknet.ca> On 10-06-17 01:07 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Any custom system-builders in the North York / Thornhill area? > > As I mentioned in another thread, I may be having hardware problems > with a machine. This could be my excuse to get a real 64-bit system. > My first reaction was to look at Dell's website. The problem is, when > you get to 8 gigabytes, they only offer 2 consumer systems. And those > are loaded with mandatory crud like a 23 or 24 inch monitor, and a > super-duper ATI Radeon video card. Paying extra is one thing; but I > draw the line at cutting corners on the basics in order to get extra > stuff I don't want/need. > > I'm looking at getting a machine with 8 gigs of RAM and integrated > ethernet/GPU/sound and not much in the way of bells/whistles. I already > have a monitor/keyboard/mouse/speakers, thank you. Of course, linux > compatability is required. With the exception of the outsourced Poulsbo > fiasco, Intel has been pretty good recently with linux compatability. > I'd rather their integrated GPU than ATI or nVidia. > > Due to seizures years ago, I don't have a driver's licence. I live > near the corner of Dufferin+Steeles, so I can take either TTC or YRT > buses. That's the reason for my preference for North York or Thornhill, > but I'd consider further away. I have a neighbour in our condo building > who'll occasionally drive me to out-of-the-way places, and I let his > relatives use my empty parking spot when they visit him, but I don't > want to impose too much. > Machines from the likes of Dell, HP, Acer etc are basically junk. The power supplies are usually 300 watt and the MBs are non standard. Your best option is do a little homework and assemble yourself. I'm actually building a new Frankie box this week myself. It's not bleeding edge but I will have a new machine with decent components. Canada computers, Tiger Direct and New Egg are my favourites. They all do on line but perhaps checking Canada Computers and Tiger Direct you can value pick your components and then get a friend to drive you. I picked up a New Egg Shell Cracker deal with an AM2+ board and Athlon dual core 2.9 G for $122.00 delivered. Not bleeding edge but much better than my aging 64 3000+. Good luck. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 13:23:32 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:23:32 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <4C1A16EE.5040907-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C1A16EE.5040907@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 08:37, John Myshrall wrote: > On 10-06-17 01:07 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: >> >> ? Any custom system-builders in the North York / Thornhill area? >> >> ? As I mentioned in another thread, I may be having hardware problems >> with a machine. ?This could be my excuse to get a real 64-bit system. >> My first reaction was to look at Dell's website. ?The problem is, when >> you get to 8 gigabytes, they only offer 2 consumer systems. ?And those >> are loaded with mandatory crud like a 23 or 24 inch monitor, and a >> super-duper ATI Radeon video card. ?Paying extra is one thing; but I >> draw the line at cutting corners on the basics in order to get extra >> stuff I don't want/need. >> >> ? I'm looking at getting a machine with 8 gigs of RAM and integrated >> ethernet/GPU/sound and not much in the way of bells/whistles. ?I already >> have a monitor/keyboard/mouse/speakers, thank you. ?Of course, linux >> compatability is required. ?With the exception of the outsourced Poulsbo >> fiasco, Intel has been pretty good recently with linux compatability. >> I'd rather their integrated GPU than ATI or nVidia. >> >> ? Due to seizures years ago, I don't have a driver's licence. ?I live >> near the corner of Dufferin+Steeles, so I can take either TTC or YRT >> buses. ?That's the reason for my preference for North York or Thornhill, >> but I'd consider further away. ?I have a neighbour in our condo building >> who'll occasionally drive me to out-of-the-way places, and I let his >> relatives use my empty parking spot when they visit him, but I don't >> want to impose too much. >> > > Machines from the likes of Dell, HP, Acer etc are basically junk. The power > supplies are usually 300 watt and the MBs are non standard. > > Your best option is do a little homework and assemble yourself. > > I'm actually building a new Frankie box this week myself. It's not bleeding > edge but I will have a new machine with decent components. > > Canada computers, Tiger Direct and New Egg are my favourites. They all do on > line but perhaps checking Canada Computers and Tiger Direct you can value > pick your components and then get a friend to drive you. > > I picked up a New Egg Shell Cracker deal with an AM2+ board and Athlon dual > core 2.9 G for $122.00 delivered. Not bleeding edge but much better than my > aging 64 3000+. > > Good luck. > > John > > You can also use NCIX.com, they do price matching, and the best way to find lower prices is through PriceCanada.com -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 14:20:36 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:20:36 -0400 Subject: vlc is broken after upgrading In-Reply-To: <20100616150649.GA11876-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100616150649.GA11876@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100617142036.GA25175@yam.witteman.ca> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:06:49AM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >I dist-upgraded my Debian testing system yesterday, and now I cannot >view video files. It appears that the upgrade of libva to version >1.0.3-1 has killed all non-Flash video on my machine. I know that there >is no simple way to downgrade via apt (the Achilles heel of Debian, >IMO), but is there another way to sort this sort of thing out? Do I >remove the offending package and reinstall the previous, non-broken >library? Any advice would be welcome. Thanks! After further investigation (I installed totem, which failed the same way) the problem is the new library moved a file that was required. I found the suggestion in a bug report to link the new file to the old name, and poof, I can see video again. Here is the command: sudo ln -s /usr/lib/libva.so.1.0.1 /usr/lib/libva-0.31.0.6.so.1 -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 14:36:40 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 07:36:40 -0700 Subject: MAME - The Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Tyler, if you were willing to do a GTALUG presentation on setting up a > MAME cabinet (I'd love to hear about both the software and the > physical side of it!) I would be at the absolute front of the line to > attend that presentation ... Unfortunately I'm a list-lurker and not a local now, since I moved. I might be in the TO area again for a wedding, but that wouldn't be until August (and I'd have to see how the wedding/flight schedule works). I'd be happy to help out with the webpage, though to be honest most of the work is just soldering and then a common distro with MAME installed (and in my case, modelines for the funky LCD I have). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 18:48:19 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <20100617050703.GB26824-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | As I mentioned in another thread, I may be having hardware problems | with a machine. This could be my excuse to get a real 64-bit system. It depends on what you enjoy and what's a chore. Buying and installing a new drive is a lot easier than building a whole system. That would give you time to make a considered decision on the replacement system. Do you feel comfortable installing a new drive? Does your old system use PATA or SATA? Investing in a PATA drive isn't quite as reasonable as investing in SATA. How obsolete is your old system and how does that matter to the tasks you do on a computer? You cannot care much about graphics performance if you are content with Intel video controllers. I run 64-bit almost exclusively. But there really isn't that much of a difference until you need lots of RAM (more than 2 or 3 gigs). Even then, the difference is measurable but not that perceptible. As far as on-line stores, I quite like Bewawa for the things they sell cheap: no delivery charge within GTA and if you order before 15:00, they will deliver that evening. Kind of the pizza delivery model. I don't think that they build systems. Cheap fix: 500G Seagate SATA 7200RPM: $40 Spacious fix: 2T Seagate Sata 7200: $125 (I'm not 100% happy with Seagate these days, but I cannot say that my opinion is sufficiently justified. My most recent failure was a WD drive.) I also like Canada Computer. My current desktop, and the one before, are HP, sold off cheap by Staples. They seem fine to me. But you need to have an eagle eye to find deals at Staples: most of the time they are not inexpensive. This is not something that Lennart would recommend. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 20:01:51 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:01:51 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <20100617050703.GB26824-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100617200151.GP17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 01:07:03AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Any custom system-builders in the North York / Thornhill area? > > As I mentioned in another thread, I may be having hardware problems > with a machine. This could be my excuse to get a real 64-bit system. > My first reaction was to look at Dell's website. The problem is, when > you get to 8 gigabytes, they only offer 2 consumer systems. And those > are loaded with mandatory crud like a 23 or 24 inch monitor, and a > super-duper ATI Radeon video card. Paying extra is one thing; but I > draw the line at cutting corners on the basics in order to get extra > stuff I don't want/need. > > I'm looking at getting a machine with 8 gigs of RAM and integrated > ethernet/GPU/sound and not much in the way of bells/whistles. I already > have a monitor/keyboard/mouse/speakers, thank you. Of course, linux > compatability is required. With the exception of the outsourced Poulsbo > fiasco, Intel has been pretty good recently with linux compatability. > I'd rather their integrated GPU than ATI or nVidia. > > Due to seizures years ago, I don't have a driver's licence. I live > near the corner of Dufferin+Steeles, so I can take either TTC or YRT > buses. That's the reason for my preference for North York or Thornhill, > but I'd consider further away. I have a neighbour in our condo building > who'll occasionally drive me to out-of-the-way places, and I let his > relatives use my empty parking spot when they visit him, but I don't > want to impose too much. Well canada computers has a store at rutherford and jane. That's by vaughn mills mall. Lots of buses go there and it isn't that far from you really. As for intel video, well in general they work quite well (although never very fast of course). The new Core i3/i5 GMA HD GPU is only just starting to work. Apparently you need 2.6.33 or higher kernel (preferably 2.6.34) and a very recent xorg update to get it to work. It will probably be great in a few months, but for now it's still getting the bugs worked out. The Core i3-5xx and Core i5-6xx all have the integrated GPU to speed up the performance of the onboard video when using H55, H57 or Q57 chipset based motherboard. The Core i5 adds AES instructions and turboboost. Both are dual core with hyperthreading (so looks like 4 CPUs). Some higher end Core i5 are quad core but don't have the GPU feature. They are more intended for people using real graphics cards. Older chipsets and cpu types of course have better and more stable support, but putting 8GB on one of the older boards with onboard video is often a problem. Many were limited to 4GB. I am sure some exist though. For example a modern system with onboard intel video could be: Asus P7H55-M/CSM ($100) Intel Core i3-530 ($125) 4x2GB DDR3 1333 ram ($220) 2x1TB Western Digital Caviar Blue (WD10EALS) (In my opinion anyone not using at least raid1 these days is mad. Disks cost nothing compared to the time it takes to reinstall and recover from backups in case of disk failure) ($140) Some optical drive ($30) Some case you like ($varies a lot) A very good powersupply. 400W should be plenty for the above. You could do better by upping to a faster Core i3 or a Core i5-6xx model. You could spend another $40 and up the disks to the Caviar Black's which are a bit faster. You could go to an Asus P7Q57-M DO/CSM ($135) which is a higher end versin of the chipset with a couple more USB ports and some remote management features (great for business users, maybe not relevant to others, although some people are claiming the Q series chipsets are much more robust than the other intel chipsets). If you want real quad core then you would have to move to the higher end Core i5-7xx model (which means the integrated GPU is gone and you have to use a seperate video card), or for quad core with hyperthreading (so essentially 8 cpus) you go to core i7-8xx but again loose the built in video. So for onboard intel video you have to use a Core i3 or Core i5-6xx on modern intel chipsets. You said you have monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers so those are free. You can get the older LGA775 board (core 2 and such) for less money, but if they have onboard video they always seem to have only two memory slots, so to get 8GB ram you need 4GB DIMMs. Those cost $200+ each, so about $400 just for 8GB ram. Might as well buy the newer system with modern parts, DDR3 ram (so faster too) that costs a lot less to put 8GB ram in. If you wanted 4GB ram and onboard intel video, the older design is qutie a bit cheaper. If you want more than 4GB, the new design is the cheaper solution. Or you go for a dedicated video card and then you can find lots of choices with 4 memory slots. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 20:11:46 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:11:46 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <4C19B812.4080406-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19B812.4080406@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20100617201146.GQ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 01:52:18AM -0400, Digimer wrote: > I'm not in the business myself any more, but I'd like to recommend > looking at online ordering the bare parts and assembling it yourself. > I've purchased from Amazon.ca, and I've heard good things about > Newegg.ca. There is also a CanadaComputers not too far from your area > and they also do online-ordering. > > This would let you get exactly the parts you want and not have to worry > about travel at all. > > Some parts/makers I'd recommend from past experience (others may offer > different suggestions): > - ASUS or Tyan for the mainboard. In either case, get one with an Certainly Asus. > integrated video. This usually means ATI, but I've had no problem in > Linux with those on-board ATIs. ATI has never been anything but a nightmare under linux for me. And windows too for that matter. I keep hoping those open source drivers will happen. ATI makes lovely hardware after all, I just can't deal with their code quality. > - Antec or Silverstone for the chassis/PSU. Silverstone PSUs are OK. They are within require spec, but not great. I do use one in my HTPC. I used to use PC Power & Cooling, but those are pretty close to imposible to find in Canada now (which is odd given OCZ claimed when they bought it that they were going to improve the distribution channels). The most recent I bought was a Corsair 750HX to replace a PC power & Cooling that unfortunately had to deal with a lightning strike induced power surge (The rest of the machine was undamaged). > - Kingston or Crucial for the RAM (get DDR3, it's going down in price > where DDR2 is going up). Or g.skill or mushkin. Just make sure the voltage is within the spec of the motherboard/cpu. > - AMD for the CPU. Better 32b support and you can get some nice > low-power multi-core CPUs. Intel has vastly better performance than AMD these days for anything (32 or 64 bit). And you aren't stuck with an ATI chipset as your only choice. I really do like AMD, but I wish they had NOT bought ATI and made nvidia (and pretty much everyone else) abandon AMD. > - Seagate for the HDD Are you mad? Saegate hasn't got a clue how to make HDs. They have firmware disasters after firmware disaster. They have had SATA drives that were incompatible with certain controllers because apparently Seagate couldn't understand the spec the rest of the industry had no trouble with. If you want a quiet fast reliable disk that works with everything, you buy western digital. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 20:17:49 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:17:49 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <4C19F135.90509-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19F135.90509@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100617201749.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 05:56:05AM -0400, Stephen wrote: > I recommend Computers & Peripherals on Steeles, 1/2 block east of Keele. > South side > > Google for their web site to see prices. They are a nice store, but on price and selection they are a nobody compared to canada computers. In fact looking at their website, either the web site is very out of date, or they in fact carry almost nothing. MSI boards is the only brand they have. They have 7 AMD and 6 intel CPUs in total, none appear current (at least the prices look about 6 months out of date, as do the models). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 20:19:14 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:19:14 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C1A16EE.5040907@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: <20100617201914.GS17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 09:23:32AM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote: > You can also use NCIX.com, they do price matching, and the best way to > find lower prices is through PriceCanada.com www.shopbot.ca is handy too. I think www.pricegrabber.ca is good at times too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 20:31:41 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:31:41 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <20100617201146.GQ17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19B812.4080406@alteeve.com> <20100617201146.GQ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100617203141.GA28126@yam.witteman.ca> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 04:11:46PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> - Seagate for the HDD > >Are you mad? Saegate hasn't got a clue how to make HDs. They have >firmware disasters after firmware disaster. They have had SATA drives that >were incompatible with certain controllers because apparently Seagate >couldn't understand the spec the rest of the industry had no trouble with. > >If you want a quiet fast reliable disk that works with everything, >you buy western digital. I concur on WD for HD. I have a few Seagate HDs, and they spit out prefailure messages via smartd every day, from day 1. My latest couple of Seagates haven't failed yet, but the previous two did within weeks of purchase. I have a cheap Asus board (Asus P5KPL-AM) with the GMA 3100 video chip, and it works very nicely. I supports compviz (though I don't - it is cute, but totally unnecessary) and it plays games and videos perfectly. If I was buying now, I'd look for sata3 and possibly usb3 in a board. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 20:44:19 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:44:19 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <20100617203141.GA28126-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19B812.4080406@alteeve.com> <20100617201146.GQ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100617203141.GA28126@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100617204419.GT17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 04:31:41PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I concur on WD for HD. I have a few Seagate HDs, and they spit out > prefailure messages via smartd every day, from day 1. My latest couple > of Seagates haven't failed yet, but the previous two did within weeks of > purchase. > > I have a cheap Asus board (Asus P5KPL-AM) with the GMA 3100 video chip, > and it works very nicely. I supports compviz (though I don't - it is > cute, but totally unnecessary) and it plays games and videos perfectly. But does it have 2 or 4 memory slots? If 8GB really is required, then that isn't a good choice if there is only two slots given the cost of 4GB modules. I have a P5K board in my mythtv box. Nice board. I pretend it is a P5K-R, so that I can use AHCI in linux. > If I was buying now, I'd look for sata3 and possibly usb3 in a board. Those tend to increase the cost quite a bit, and certainly I see no need for SATA3 yet unless you are using a SATA3 compatible SDD. No harddisk is anywhere near the speed of SATA2 yet (they barely reach SATA1 speeds so far). USB3 could be nice. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 21:48:01 2010 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 17:48:01 -0400 Subject: Hard drive making ominous clicking sounds In-Reply-To: References: <20100617043923.GA26824@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <201006171748.01303.dbmacg@look.ca> I have had USB drives do that when the power supply was too weak. Duncan On Thursday 17 June 2010 00:38:42 Tyler Aviss wrote: > Tick or a click? Could be the needle bouncing off > > On 2010-06-16 9:37 PM, "Walter Dnes" wrote: > > And when it does, the drive light flashes, and programs freeze for a > couple of seconds. I've done the necessary updating to bring my backup > machine online as a full replacement, so I'm OK for now. Does this > sound like a hard drive about to die? > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Duncan MacGregor -- Toronto (usually) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 17 23:57:21 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:57:21 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <20100617201749.GR17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19F135.90509@rogers.com> <20100617201749.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100617235721.GA4317@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 04:17:49PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 05:56:05AM -0400, Stephen wrote: > > I recommend Computers & Peripherals on Steeles, 1/2 block east of > > Keele. South side > > > > Google for their web site to see prices. > > They are a nice store, but on price and selection they are a nobody > compared to canada computers. > > In fact looking at their website, either the web site is very out > of date, or they in fact carry almost nothing. MSI boards is the > only brand they have. They have 7 AMD and 6 intel CPUs in total, > none appear current (at least the prices look about 6 months out of > date, as do the models). I stopped by the place (near Keele and Steeles W) after work today, and I'm drooling. Maybe the reason their motherboards aren't cheap is because they're not cheapskate crippled motherboards. E.g. the Intel i3 (the low end) motherboard has a couple of goodies... * the built-in video chip has *BOTH* VGA and HDMI ports * it has PS/2 ports. WOOHOO!!!! I have a couple of genuine IBM PS/2 "clickety-clack" keyboards that I was getting ready to tearfully throw away, because I couldn't buy new machines with PS/2 ports anymore. When I saw the VGA/HDMI and especially the PS/2 ports, I knew I was going to be buying it. Does anybody know of any linux-compatability show-stoppers with Intel i3 motherboards? If not, I'm buying. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 00:13:42 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 20:13:42 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <20100617235721.GA4317-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19F135.90509@rogers.com> <20100617201749.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100617235721.GA4317@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4C1ABA36.3040704@dinamis.com> On 06/17/2010 07:57 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > * it has PS/2 ports. WOOHOO!!!! I have a couple of genuine IBM PS/2 > "clickety-clack" keyboards that I was getting ready to tearfully throw > away, because I couldn't buy new machines with PS/2 ports anymore. For future reference, you can get a PS/2 to USB converter. I use my genuine IBM keyboard with any system, PS/2 or USB. > When I saw the VGA/HDMI and especially the PS/2 ports, I knew I was > going to be buying it. Does anybody know of any linux-compatability > show-stoppers with Intel i3 motherboards? If not, I'm buying. I have an ASUS P55D running an i5-750. It does not have an integrated video card so I use an nVidia GeForce 9600GT (a.k.a. G94) fanless video card. It works perfectly well with the nouveau (open source) driver. I've had the binary driver working before too. The only issue was the built-in Intel HDA sound card. I had no end of problems with PulseAudio with that until I disabled on-board card and plugged in an ancient SoundBlaster. The power supply I bought was the OCZ Stealth XStream 500W ($66 last September). That is on sale right now at NCIX for $20. It might include shipping. If you purchase one of their specials that has shipping included, they ship everything else free. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 01:18:43 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:18:43 -0400 Subject: [split thread] Pulseaudio... why? In-Reply-To: <4C1ABA36.3040704-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19F135.90509@rogers.com> <20100617201749.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100617235721.GA4317@waltdnes.org> <4C1ABA36.3040704@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20100618011843.GA21276@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 08:13:42PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote > I had no end of problems with PulseAudio with that until I disabled > on-board card and plugged in an ancient SoundBlaster. > I had no end of problems with PulseAudio... There, fixed it for ya Let's just say that pulseaudio has recieved "plenty of mention" on the Gentoo mailing list, and I have no intention of using it. It's another solution in search of a problem. And if it can't find problems, it'll create them. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 01:21:30 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:21:30 -0400 Subject: [split thread] Pulseaudio... why? In-Reply-To: <20100618011843.GA21276-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19F135.90509@rogers.com> <20100617201749.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100617235721.GA4317@waltdnes.org> <4C1ABA36.3040704@dinamis.com> <20100618011843.GA21276@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4C1ACA1A.1060507@dinamis.com> On 06/17/2010 09:18 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 08:13:42PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote > >> I had no end of problems with PulseAudio with that until I disabled >> on-board card and plugged in an ancient SoundBlaster. > > > >> I had no end of problems with PulseAudio... > > There, fixed it for ya > > > Let's just say that pulseaudio has recieved "plenty of mention" on the > Gentoo mailing list, and I have no intention of using it. It's another > solution in search of a problem. And if it can't find problems, it'll > create them. I haven't had a problem with PulseAudio since I switched to a different sound card but I use Fedora, not Gentoo. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 02:42:43 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 22:42:43 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <4C1ABA36.3040704-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19F135.90509@rogers.com> <20100617201749.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100617235721.GA4317@waltdnes.org> <4C1ABA36.3040704@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20100618024243.GA3964@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 08:13:42PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 06/17/2010 07:57 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > >* it has PS/2 ports. WOOHOO!!!! I have a couple of genuine IBM PS/2 > > "clickety-clack" keyboards that I was getting ready to tearfully throw > > away, because I couldn't buy new machines with PS/2 ports anymore. > > For future reference, you can get a PS/2 to USB converter. I use my > genuine IBM keyboard with any system, PS/2 or USB. > > > When I saw the VGA/HDMI and especially the PS/2 ports, I knew I was > >going to be buying it. Does anybody know of any linux-compatability > >show-stoppers with Intel i3 motherboards? If not, I'm buying. > > I have an ASUS P55D running an i5-750. It does not have an integrated > video card so I use an nVidia GeForce 9600GT (a.k.a. G94) fanless video > card. It works perfectly well with the nouveau (open source) driver. Yours works? I had to disable "nouveau" module (ie. not compile even as module, because it would load automatically), because kernel would crash during booting. And, that's Kernel 2.6.34, nVidia 8500GT. > I've had the binary driver working before too. The only issue was the > built-in Intel HDA sound card. I had no end of problems with PulseAudio > with that until I disabled on-board card and plugged in an ancient > SoundBlaster. > > The power supply I bought was the OCZ Stealth XStream 500W ($66 last > September). That is on sale right now at NCIX for $20. It might include > shipping. If you purchase one of their specials that has shipping > included, they ship everything else free. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 02:55:23 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 22:55:23 -0400 Subject: Which power supply? Message-ID: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> While we're on the topic of "building" computers... Which power supply (around 500W) would you recommend? For other components, I can pretty much follow my nose. But, power supply is one component that I have to defer to the experts. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 02:57:11 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 22:57:11 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <20100618024243.GA3964-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19F135.90509@rogers.com> <20100617201749.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100617235721.GA4317@waltdnes.org> <4C1ABA36.3040704@dinamis.com> <20100618024243.GA3964@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4C1AE087.3080701@dinamis.com> On 06/17/2010 10:42 PM, William Park wrote: >> I have an ASUS P55D running an i5-750. It does not have an integrated >> video card so I use an nVidia GeForce 9600GT (a.k.a. G94) fanless video >> card. It works perfectly well with the nouveau (open source) driver. > > Yours works? I had to disable "nouveau" module (ie. not compile even as > module, because it would load automatically), because kernel would crash > during booting. And, that's Kernel 2.6.34, nVidia 8500GT. Now that you mention it, the last few kernel updates have been problematic so I continue to use 2.6.31.12-174.2.22.fc12.x86_64. If I boot with any kernel newer than that, after some minutes of working, the keyboard and mouse will become unresponsive. I'll ssh into the machine and init 6 at that point. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 02:59:57 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 22:59:57 -0400 Subject: Which power supply? In-Reply-To: <20100618025523.GB3964-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4C1AE12D.5090401@dinamis.com> On 06/17/2010 10:55 PM, William Park wrote: > While we're on the topic of "building" computers... Which power supply > (around 500W) would you recommend? For other components, I can pretty > much follow my nose. But, power supply is one component that I have to > defer to the experts. For me, quiet is very important. The aforementioned OCZ Stealth XStream is very quiet, though not completely silent. Of course it could be the stock Intel CPU fan making the noise, too. I used a cheap old case that I had lying around so I might have been able to get it a bit quieter by using a higher quality case, though the fan noise from the machine really isn't objectionable at all. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 03:09:52 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 23:09:52 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <4C1AE087.3080701-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19F135.90509@rogers.com> <20100617201749.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100617235721.GA4317@waltdnes.org> <4C1ABA36.3040704@dinamis.com> <20100618024243.GA3964@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C1AE087.3080701@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20100618030952.GA4015@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 10:57:11PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 06/17/2010 10:42 PM, William Park wrote: > >>I have an ASUS P55D running an i5-750. It does not have an integrated > >>video card so I use an nVidia GeForce 9600GT (a.k.a. G94) fanless video > >>card. It works perfectly well with the nouveau (open source) driver. > > > >Yours works? I had to disable "nouveau" module (ie. not compile even as > >module, because it would load automatically), because kernel would crash > >during booting. And, that's Kernel 2.6.34, nVidia 8500GT. > > Now that you mention it, the last few kernel updates have been > problematic so I continue to use 2.6.31.12-174.2.22.fc12.x86_64. If I > boot with any kernel newer than that, after some minutes of working, the > keyboard and mouse will become unresponsive. I'll ssh into the machine > and init 6 at that point. My case is very consistent. "nouveau" module loads, then kernel barfs next line. I'm running Slackware64-13.0. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 03:20:53 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 23:20:53 -0400 Subject: Which power supply? In-Reply-To: <20100618025523.GB3964-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4C1AE615.7030805@alteeve.com> On 10-06-17 10:55 PM, William Park wrote: > While we're on the topic of "building" computers... Which power supply > (around 500W) would you recommend? For other components, I can pretty > much follow my nose. But, power supply is one component that I have to > defer to the experts. > One word; jonnyguru.com. I like to think that I know my way around a PSU, and have bought/sold/serviced easily over a hundred in the last ten years. That said, I'd bow out to Mr. Guru... He knows his PSUs better than just about anyone. He hot-boxes all of his test units (sticks it in a box at 50c) and drives the load up to 100% of stated max capacity. He watches the stability of the rails and, when they blow, he tears them down and finds out what failed. Anyone looking to build their own system would be well served to spend a few hours on his page. Now, as a personal recommendation, Antec, Silverstone and PC Power & Cooling have not steered me wrong. However, like most here, I speak from anecdotal experience. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 14:57:59 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:57:59 -0400 Subject: Which power supply? In-Reply-To: <20100618025523.GB3964-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: Akasa is a good brand with a good price - and it's whisper quiet. - FZ On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 22:55, William Park wrote: > While we're on the topic of "building" computers... Which power supply > (around 500W) would you recommend? ?For other components, I can pretty > much follow my nose. ?But, power supply is one component that I have to > defer to the experts. > > -- > William > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 14:59:56 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:59:56 -0400 Subject: [split thread] Pulseaudio... why? In-Reply-To: <4C1ACA1A.1060507-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19F135.90509@rogers.com> <20100617201749.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100617235721.GA4317@waltdnes.org> <4C1ABA36.3040704@dinamis.com> <20100618011843.GA21276@waltdnes.org> <4C1ACA1A.1060507@dinamis.com> Message-ID: If you try to do anything serious with audio (editors, music composition etc.) you too will have problems with PulseAudio. It's a completely unnecessary additional layer of abstraction. - FZ On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 21:21, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 06/17/2010 09:18 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: >> >> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 08:13:42PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote >> >>> I had no end of problems with PulseAudio with that until I disabled >>> on-board card and plugged in an ancient SoundBlaster. >> >> >> >>> >>> I had no end of problems with PulseAudio... >> >> ? There, fixed it for ya >> >> >> ? Let's just say that pulseaudio has recieved "plenty of mention" on the >> Gentoo mailing list, and I have no intention of using it. ?It's another >> solution in search of a problem. ?And if it can't find problems, it'll >> create them. > > I haven't had a problem with PulseAudio since I switched to a different > sound card but I use Fedora, not Gentoo. > -- > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay > Dinamis > 1419-3266 Yonge St. > Toronto, ON > Canada ?M4N 3P6 > > > +1 416-410-3326 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 16:00:29 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:00:29 -0400 Subject: Which power supply? In-Reply-To: <20100618025523.GB3964-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100618160029.GU17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 10:55:23PM -0400, William Park wrote: > While we're on the topic of "building" computers... Which power supply > (around 500W) would you recommend? For other components, I can pretty > much follow my nose. But, power supply is one component that I have to > defer to the experts. I always check www.hardwaresecrets.com's power supply reviews before buying one. They really seem to understand power supplies and have the right equipment to test them. If you want a quick start, go to http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/awards and find power supplies that they gave a golden award (or at least an award), and read the reviews for those. Then assuming the review is recent the power supply should still be in production. You generally can't trust the specs any power supply manufacturer provides (there are a few exceptions, but not many). You can't even assume that one company makes good power supplies and another makes bad ones as reading the reviews on hardwaresecrets will show you. For example the Corsair HX line (of which I recently bought a 750W) is excellent if you get the 750, 850 or 1000W models. If you get the smaller ones, they are made by a different supplier, with a totally different (and pretty awful) design. So even within one model series from a manufacturer you can have good power supplies and bad ones. For example OCZ has a ModXStream Pro 600W http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=33_443&item_id=019983 that you can currently buy for $65. It got a golden award in the review http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/OCZ-ModXStream-Pro-600-W-Power-Supply-Review/936/1 as did the 500W version (which canada computers doesn't appear to carry). The Antec Basiq BP500U looks very good too getting the same golden award http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Antec-Basiq-BP500U-Power-Supply-Review/792/1 and it goes for $60 if it was actually in stock: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=33_442&item_id=011140 The Antec EarthWatts 500 W looks nice too http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Antec-EarthWatts-500-W-Power-Supply-Review/526/1 and sells for $75 http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=33_442&item_id=012267 So there are plenty there to pick from. I pretty much just find what hardwaresecrets gives a golden award, try to find one of the more efficient ones (some do 80%+ efficiency a lot better than others), and then try to find one I like the price on that I can actually get. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 16:21:31 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:21:31 -0400 Subject: Which power supply? In-Reply-To: <4C1AE615.7030805-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C1AE615.7030805@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20100618162131.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 11:20:53PM -0400, Digimer wrote: > One word; jonnyguru.com. > > I like to think that I know my way around a PSU, and have > bought/sold/serviced easily over a hundred in the last ten years. That > said, I'd bow out to Mr. Guru... He knows his PSUs better than just > about anyone. > > He hot-boxes all of his test units (sticks it in a box at 50c) and > drives the load up to 100% of stated max capacity. He watches the > stability of the rails and, when they blow, he tears them down and finds > out what failed. Sounds similar to how hardwaresecrets does tests, although if it does fail I am not sure they really quite care why. It sure isn't going to get recommended if it fails. > Anyone looking to build their own system would be well served to spend a > few hours on his page. > > Now, as a personal recommendation, Antec, Silverstone and PC Power & > Cooling have not steered me wrong. However, like most here, I speak from > anecdotal experience. Antec has made some bad models. So has Silverstone. PC Power & Cooling I can't say has ever done wrong, other than being now just about completely impossible to buy in Canada. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 16:28:47 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:28:47 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <20100617235721.GA4317-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19F135.90509@rogers.com> <20100617201749.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100617235721.GA4317@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100618162847.GW17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 07:57:21PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I stopped by the place (near Keele and Steeles W) after work today, > and I'm drooling. Maybe the reason their motherboards aren't cheap is > because they're not cheapskate crippled motherboards. E.g. the Intel i3 > (the low end) motherboard has a couple of goodies... > > * the built-in video chip has *BOTH* VGA and HDMI ports Give me a DVI port instead, and I can do either one with a $2 adapter. In fact just the HDMI will do (since it can carry audio) and is trivial to adapt to DVI, and who cares about VGA anymore. :) I guess if you care about VGA, having both is nice. I have never been certain about MSI at all. I just don't know. > * it has PS/2 ports. WOOHOO!!!! I have a couple of genuine IBM PS/2 > "clickety-clack" keyboards that I was getting ready to tearfully throw > away, because I couldn't buy new machines with PS/2 ports anymore. All the Asus boards I listed have a PS/2 port. Still quite common. > When I saw the VGA/HDMI and especially the PS/2 ports, I knew I was > going to be buying it. Does anybody know of any linux-compatability > show-stoppers with Intel i3 motherboards? If not, I'm buying. The video support is still being worked out. You will need a bleeding edge distribution for it to have any chance of working. The Asus boards I mentioned for the Core i3/i5 has HDMI and VGA too. I think they all do. It's nothing special at all, and certainly not justification for a high price. The $99 ASUS P7H55-M even has an optical digital audio out. That's more unusual. And apparently the PS/2 port is both mouse and keyboard compatible (and with the proper splitter you can use both in fact. Many laptops used to do that too). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 16:30:34 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:30:34 -0400 Subject: [split thread] Pulseaudio... why? In-Reply-To: References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19F135.90509@rogers.com> <20100617201749.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100617235721.GA4317@waltdnes.org> <4C1ABA36.3040704@dinamis.com> <20100618011843.GA21276@waltdnes.org> <4C1ACA1A.1060507@dinamis.com> Message-ID: i had to apt-get purge pulseaudio to get skype working decently on my eeepc running ubuntu 9.04. 9.10 seemed to have implement it better On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Fabio FZero wrote: > If you try to do anything serious with audio (editors, music > composition etc.) you too will have problems with PulseAudio. It's a > completely unnecessary additional layer of abstraction. > > - FZ > > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 21:21, CLIFFORD ILKAY > wrote: > > On 06/17/2010 09:18 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > >> > >> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 08:13:42PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote > >> > >>> I had no end of problems with PulseAudio with that until I disabled > >>> on-board card and plugged in an ancient SoundBlaster. > >> > >> > >> > >>> > >>> I had no end of problems with PulseAudio... > >> > >> There, fixed it for ya > >> > >> > >> Let's just say that pulseaudio has recieved "plenty of mention" on the > >> Gentoo mailing list, and I have no intention of using it. It's another > >> solution in search of a problem. And if it can't find problems, it'll > >> create them. > > > > I haven't had a problem with PulseAudio since I switched to a different > > sound card but I use Fedora, not Gentoo. > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Clifford Ilkay > > Dinamis > > 1419-3266 Yonge St. > > Toronto, ON > > Canada M4N 3P6 > > > > > > +1 416-410-3326 > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 16:33:40 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:33:40 -0400 Subject: Local system builders? preferably North York or Thornhill In-Reply-To: <4C1ABA36.3040704-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100617050703.GB26824@waltdnes.org> <4C19F135.90509@rogers.com> <20100617201749.GR17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100617235721.GA4317@waltdnes.org> <4C1ABA36.3040704@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20100618163340.GX17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 08:13:42PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 06/17/2010 07:57 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: >> * it has PS/2 ports. WOOHOO!!!! I have a couple of genuine IBM PS/2 >> "clickety-clack" keyboards that I was getting ready to tearfully throw >> away, because I couldn't buy new machines with PS/2 ports anymore. > > For future reference, you can get a PS/2 to USB converter. I use my > genuine IBM keyboard with any system, PS/2 or USB. > >> When I saw the VGA/HDMI and especially the PS/2 ports, I knew I was >> going to be buying it. Does anybody know of any linux-compatability >> show-stoppers with Intel i3 motherboards? If not, I'm buying. > > I have an ASUS P55D running an i5-750. It does not have an integrated > video card so I use an nVidia GeForce 9600GT (a.k.a. G94) fanless video > card. It works perfectly well with the nouveau (open source) driver. > I've had the binary driver working before too. The only issue was the > built-in Intel HDA sound card. I had no end of problems with PulseAudio > with that until I disabled on-board card and plugged in an ancient > SoundBlaster. > > The power supply I bought was the OCZ Stealth XStream 500W ($66 last > September). That is on sale right now at NCIX for $20. It might include > shipping. If you purchase one of their specials that has shipping > included, they ship everything else free. hardwaresecrets.com consideres that one an OK power supply. It can just provide it's labeled power, it stays within spec, and it is pretty cheap to buy, but there are much better choices out there (in fact better choices with the same internals but more power connectors provided, such as the SilverStone ST50F). So it has no problems, but it could be much better and the efficiency is a bit low. Certainly not award worthy by any means. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 16:48:34 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 12:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Which power supply? In-Reply-To: <20100618025523.GB3964-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: I've had good experiences with Enermax and PC Power & Cooling > While we're on the topic of "building" computers... Which power supply > (around 500W) would you recommend? For other components, I can pretty > much follow my nose. But, power supply is one component that I have to > defer to the experts. > > -- > William > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 18:00:46 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 11:00:46 -0700 Subject: Which power supply? In-Reply-To: References: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Jason Carson wrote: > I've had good experiences with Enermax and PC Power & Cooling > >> While we're on the topic of "building" computers... Which power supply >> (around 500W) would you recommend? ?For other components, I can pretty >> much follow my nose. ?But, power supply is one component that I have to >> defer to the experts. >> >> -- >> William >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > Ditto for Enermax. I've generally had decent luck with Antec too. I had one blow awhile back but it went cleanly. When a crappy PSU goes, it is generally happy to take out other components in your PC. When a good PSU goes, at least it often has the courtesy to commit Sepuku rather than going Kamikaze on your motherboard and drives, etc.... As many have mentioned though, brand means little, because a given brand will have both good and crappy models. The hardwaresecrets site that Lennart mentioned sounds like a good place to check up on one. Also, the modular power supplies are quite nice in that it can save a lot of unnecessary cable-clutter. I recently put an "OCZ Modstream Pro" PSU in a computer for somebody else. Other than smelling a bit funky for the first 15 minutes (common enough) it worked nice and quiet. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 18:13:35 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:13:35 -0400 Subject: Which power supply? In-Reply-To: <20100618160029.GU17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100618160029.GU17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4C1BB74F.5050906@utoronto.ca> On 06/18/2010 12:00 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > For example OCZ has a ModXStream Pro 600W > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=33_443&item_id=019983 > that you can currently buy for $65. It got a golden award in the review > http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/OCZ-ModXStream-Pro-600-W-Power-Supply-Review/936/1 > as did the 500W version (which canada computers doesn't appear to carry). I switched from Antec to that 650W OCZ recently and am quite impressed. OCZ ship their units with a zippered mesh bag for extra PSU cables, which is a very thoughtful and nice touch imho. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 18:18:55 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:18:55 -0400 Subject: Which power supply? In-Reply-To: References: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100618181855.GY17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 11:00:46AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Ditto for Enermax. I've generally had decent luck with Antec too. I > had one blow awhile back but it went cleanly. When a crappy PSU goes, > it is generally happy to take out other components in your PC. When a > good PSU goes, at least it often has the courtesy to commit Sepuku > rather than going Kamikaze on your motherboard and drives, etc.... Yeah my PC Power & Cooling that took the major power surge at least did its job and didn't take out any of the nice Core i7-920 box. > As many have mentioned though, brand means little, because a given > brand will have both good and crappy models. The hardwaresecrets site > that Lennart mentioned sounds like a good place to check up on one. > > Also, the modular power supplies are quite nice in that it can save a > lot of unnecessary cable-clutter. I recently put an "OCZ Modstream > Pro" PSU in a computer for somebody else. Other than smelling a bit > funky for the first 15 minutes (common enough) it worked nice and > quiet. Yep. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 18:21:09 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:21:09 -0400 Subject: Which power supply? In-Reply-To: References: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100618182109.GZ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 11:00:46AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > As many have mentioned though, brand means little, because a given > brand will have both good and crappy models. The hardwaresecrets site > that Lennart mentioned sounds like a good place to check up on one. The fact is the brand you see is almost never who made it. A few companies actually build them, and they sometimes will use a generic design for multiple brand/models of power supples, variying the cables and a few compononets in some cases, and other times they do a custom design for exclusive use of one customer (where customer = power supply brand, not end user). So it all comes down to who made it, how it was made, what the design is like, what components were used in building the design, etc. What the brand does control is picking those values, and providing support and service and of course the warrenty. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 18:36:22 2010 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:36:22 -0400 Subject: Which power supply? In-Reply-To: <20100618162131.GV17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C1AE615.7030805@alteeve.com> <20100618162131.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: ... > Antec has made some bad models. ?So has Silverstone. ?PC Power & Cooling I > can't say has ever done wrong, other than being now just about completely > impossible to buy in Canada. I had an Antec die on me. Quietest supply I ever owned. It even quietly failed. They replaced it under warranty with no shipping costs or anything. The new one is working fine, apparently the failure was a known defect. Given that I've never actually had a power supply die in one of my home machines before, that doesn't speak well of Antec's reliability... but it does speak well of their support. I'd be *really* careful buying an Antec for somebody other than myself. Replacing a PSU is annoying. The problems are documented though, so you should be able to avoid it by watching the model numbers carefully. Are their newest supplies good, or was it just a bad year? -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 19:21:53 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:21:53 -0400 Subject: Which power supply? In-Reply-To: References: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C1AE615.7030805@alteeve.com> <20100618162131.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4C1BC751.9030702@alteeve.com> On 10-06-18 02:36 PM, Mike Kallies wrote: > On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > ... >> Antec has made some bad models. So has Silverstone. PC Power& Cooling I >> can't say has ever done wrong, other than being now just about completely >> impossible to buy in Canada. > > I had an Antec die on me. Quietest supply I ever owned. It even > quietly failed. They replaced it under warranty with no shipping > costs or anything. The new one is working fine, apparently the > failure was a known defect. > > Given that I've never actually had a power supply die in one of my > home machines before, that doesn't speak well of Antec's > reliability... but it does speak well of their support. > > I'd be *really* careful buying an Antec for somebody other than > myself. Replacing a PSU is annoying. The problems are documented > though, so you should be able to avoid it by watching the model > numbers carefully. > > Are their newest supplies good, or was it just a bad year? Over the years I've bought many (couple-dozen at least) and haven't had any problems. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 20:13:53 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 16:13:53 -0400 Subject: Which power supply? In-Reply-To: References: <20100618025523.GB3964@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C1AE615.7030805@alteeve.com> <20100618162131.GV17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100618201353.GA17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 02:36:22PM -0400, Mike Kallies wrote: > I had an Antec die on me. Quietest supply I ever owned. It even > quietly failed. They replaced it under warranty with no shipping > costs or anything. The new one is working fine, apparently the > failure was a known defect. > > Given that I've never actually had a power supply die in one of my > home machines before, that doesn't speak well of Antec's > reliability... but it does speak well of their support. > > I'd be *really* careful buying an Antec for somebody other than > myself. Replacing a PSU is annoying. The problems are documented > though, so you should be able to avoid it by watching the model > numbers carefully. > > Are their newest supplies good, or was it just a bad year? As has been mentioned in this thread a number of times now. The brand really doesn't matter other than for what kind of service and support you get. The quality depends on the design and build of individual models. You can't just look up and see that Antec makes good power supplies. You have to look up a proper review of a specific model. I would highly recommend a Corsair HX750 for example. I would never recommend someone get an HX650. Same brand, same model line, totally different power supply. I would be perfectly happy recommending the HX850 and HX1000 as well. Other than PC Power & Cooling I can't think of any power supply company that hasn't made some bad models. PC Power & Cooling may have done so too but I have never heard of it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 22:21:53 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 18:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jun 2010, Michael Lauzon wrote: > Well, isn't this an interesting turn of events: > "If you downloaded and installed the open-source Unreal IRC server in > the last 8 months or so, you?ve been pwned. Here?s the official > announcement: This isn't the first time this has happened. It happened with a version of OpenSSH once and has happened a few times with various distros. This is the principal reason why md5 hashes for downloads are displayed and checked. These days integrity checking is done on packages for most distros which will prevent this as long as the verifying server hasn't been compromised as well. This comes down to good security practices. It's rather unfortunate that the application was compromised for so long but methods to avoid this problem have been in use for a couple of decades, so maybe they need to pick up their game (and probably will now :) ). Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 18 22:29:59 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 18:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over In-Reply-To: <20100614214032.GJ17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1650D0.1000100@alteeve.com> <20100614214032.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jun 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > And it only has access as the user you ran the server as. Now if you > ran it as root, then you are of course an idiot. :) True but local root exploits are orders of magnitude more common than remote root exploits. Getting a local shell increases the chances of breaking root massively. remote non-root exploit + local root exploit = remote root exploit This isn't theoretical - combinations like this are used all the time. > Or if you ran it as your regular user with sudo privileges that so many > distributions seem fond of these days. Even without sudo, a smart trojan could try to brute force the root password from the local account although I don't recall ever hearing about this method being used. Few use suauth to restrict access to su. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gron.arthur-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 19 02:55:35 2010 From: gron.arthur-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Gron Arthur) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 22:55:35 -0400 Subject: Opera Unite Web Server Message-ID: I like Opera's web server, but I found loading Opera is too large and cumbersome, is there another program similar to Opera's Unite? I just want to use my home machine to host a few files without having to do too much configuring of my router and such. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 19 03:21:05 2010 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 23:21:05 -0400 Subject: Linux infection proves Windows malware monopoly is over In-Reply-To: <20100615033305.arc6qoe5twkww4wc-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1650D0.1000100@alteeve.com> <20100614214032.GJ17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100615033305.arc6qoe5twkww4wc@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 3:33 AM, Mike Oliver wrote: > Quoting Lennart Sorensen : > >> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:54:56AM -0400, Digimer wrote: >>> >>> This isn't a virus in the traditional sense. It didn't spread, it was >>> embedded in a package. It's still a big deal, but it should be discussed >>> for what it is. >> This wasn't a virus at all. traditional or otherwise. It's a back door. And it really isn't a big deal. It's an obscure package on a distro that isn't one of the major players. Also It's not the first time someone has put a back door in OSS. >> And it only has access as the user you ran the server as. ?Now if you >> ran it as root, then you are of course an idiot. :) > > Well, there's plenty of nasty stuff a program can do with just the > privileges of the sole non-root user of a typical home system. ?For example, > it could look in your .mozilla tree and grab your passwords, unless you have > them encrypted. ?You *should* have them encrypted, of course. ?But what > fraction of users really do? ?It's an extra hassle. > You do realize that this was a IRC server. It should be running as it's own user and not someone's user account. Also it was easily detected if you checked the signature. Bott is just trying to stir up something he knows nothing about. -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 19 14:47:06 2010 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:47:06 -0400 Subject: Opera Unite Web Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Gron Arthur wrote: > I like Opera's web server, but I found loading Opera is too large and > cumbersome, is there another program similar to Opera's Unite? ?I just > want to use my home machine to host a few files without having to do > too much configuring of my router and such. I haven't used Unity yet (though I still plan to try it out) but if you have a copy of Firefox (<= v3.5) then the Plain Old Webserver plugin[1] might do what you want. If you don't mind a little perl, I also have a small webserver[2] that might also work. (I use this to serve files from my Android phone.) Cheers, - Scott. [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3002/ [2] http://projects.psema4.com/microhttpd/microhttpd-1.5.tgz -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 20 13:26:47 2010 From: jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 09:26:47 -0400 Subject: Test from GMail account Message-ID: <4C1E1717.8030207@gmail.com> test -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 20 19:07:08 2010 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 15:07:08 -0400 Subject: Test from GMail account In-Reply-To: <4C1E1717.8030207-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1E1717.8030207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C1E66DC.7020503@linuxcaffe.ca> On 10-06-20 09:26 AM, James Knott wrote: > test nope, not working, didn't see a thing oh well ;) djp > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 20 19:11:34 2010 From: jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 15:11:34 -0400 Subject: Test from GMail account In-Reply-To: <4C1E66DC.7020503-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1E1717.8030207@gmail.com> <4C1E66DC.7020503@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4C1E67E6.2010804@gmail.com> David J Patrick wrote: > On 10-06-20 09:26 AM, James Knott wrote: >> test > > nope, not working, didn't see a thing > oh well > > ;) NUTS!!! ;-) I'm still trying to figure out what's happened to my james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org access to the TLUG list. I tried sending test messages to the list from both that address and my GMail address. Since this is the only one that made it through, it's obvious that the list is killing any mail to or from my Rogers account. I have tried re-registering a few times, but it still doesn't work. I've even sent a note to tlug-approval-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org, but got no response. I'd sure like to get this cleared up. It's been close to a month since it stopped working. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 20 19:43:25 2010 From: jmyshrall-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 15:43:25 -0400 Subject: Test from GMail account In-Reply-To: <4C1E67E6.2010804-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1E1717.8030207@gmail.com> <4C1E66DC.7020503@linuxcaffe.ca> <4C1E67E6.2010804@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C1E6F5D.2050608@yaknet.ca> On 10-06-20 03:11 PM, James Knott wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: >> On 10-06-20 09:26 AM, James Knott wrote: >>> test >> >> nope, not working, didn't see a thing >> oh well >> >> ;) > NUTS!!! ;-) > > I'm still trying to figure out what's happened to my > james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org access to the TLUG list. I tried sending test > messages to the list from both that address and my GMail address. Since > this is the only one that made it through, it's obvious that the list is > killing any mail to or from my Rogers account. I have tried > re-registering a few times, but it still doesn't work. I've even sent a > note to tlug-approval-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org, but got no response. I'd sure like to get > this cleared up. It's been close to a month since it stopped working. > Strange similar thing happening to me on original posts. I'm able to send messages to the list but cannot see them. Others can. I can send messages to myself and they come through without any issues. Yaknet.ca uses G-Mail as well. I have No filters on G-mail or my T-bird. All other TLUG messages come through. I haven't tried un-subscribing and re-subscribing though. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 20 21:26:27 2010 From: jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 17:26:27 -0400 Subject: Test from GMail account In-Reply-To: <4C1E6F5D.2050608-v+ARZjKqHIj3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1E1717.8030207@gmail.com> <4C1E66DC.7020503@linuxcaffe.ca> <4C1E67E6.2010804@gmail.com> <4C1E6F5D.2050608@yaknet.ca> Message-ID: <4C1E8783.1050907@gmail.com> John Myshrall wrote: > On 10-06-20 03:11 PM, James Knott wrote: >> David J Patrick wrote: >>> On 10-06-20 09:26 AM, James Knott wrote: >>>> test >>> >>> nope, not working, didn't see a thing >>> oh well >>> >>> ;) >> NUTS!!! ;-) >> >> I'm still trying to figure out what's happened to my >> james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org access to the TLUG list. I tried sending test >> messages to the list from both that address and my GMail address. Since >> this is the only one that made it through, it's obvious that the list is >> killing any mail to or from my Rogers account. I have tried >> re-registering a few times, but it still doesn't work. I've even sent a >> note to tlug-approval-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org, but got no response. I'd sure like to get >> this cleared up. It's been close to a month since it stopped working. >> > > Strange similar thing happening to me on original posts. I'm able to > send messages to the list but cannot see them. Others can. > > I can send messages to myself and they come through without any issues. > > Yaknet.ca uses G-Mail as well. I have No filters on G-mail or my T-bird. > > All other TLUG messages come through. I haven't tried un-subscribing > and re-subscribing though. > My situation is not the same. I get no traffic at all via my Rogers account and haven't since somewhere around May 21. I can send & receive, including my own, on my GMail account. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 20 22:31:30 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 18:31:30 -0400 Subject: Utility for finding duplicate files? Message-ID: <20100620223130.GA4505@waltdnes.org> Last week, after my main machine's hard drive started making ominous noises, I copied over just about all data from the machine. There's a ton of duplication with the major backups on my backup USB drive. I could do something like... #!/bin/bash for file1 in * do if diff -q ${file1} ../dir2/${file1}; then echo "rm ../dir2/${file1}" >> removelist fi done ...and then source removelist Is there a utility program already written that can generate a list of duplicate files? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 20 23:33:28 2010 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 19:33:28 -0400 Subject: Utility for finding duplicate files? In-Reply-To: <20100620223130.GA4505-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100620223130.GA4505@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4C1EA548.5010108@pobox.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > Is there a utility program already written that can generate a list of > duplicate files? I know of three (descriptions below from my machine's package manager): FDupes: identifies duplicate files within given directories * FDupes uses md5sums and then a byte by byte comparison to find duplicate files within a set of directories. It has several useful options including recursion. FSlint: A utility to fix problems with filesystems' data, like duplicate files * FSlint is a toolkit to clean filesystem lint. It includes a GTK+ GUI as well as a command line interface and can be used to reclaim disk space. It has an interface for uninstalling packages, and it can find things like: - Duplicate files - Problematic filenames - Temporary files - Bad symlinks - Empty directories - Nonstripped binaries KleanSweep: File cleaner for KDE * KleanSweep allows you to reclaim disk space by finding unneeded files. It can search for files basing on several criterias; you can seek for: - empty files - empty directories - backup files - broken symbolic links - broken executables (executables with missing libraries) - dead menu entries (.desktop files pointing to non-existing executables) - duplicated files - orphaned files -- files not found in RPM (for rpm-based distros, e.g. Fedora Core, Suse) or DPKG (for dpkg based distros, e.g. Debian and Ubuntu) database - obsolete thumbnails (thumbnails conforming to freedesktop.org standard, pointing to non-existing images) I've used FDupes before, and it worked well. Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 03:33:36 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 23:33:36 -0400 Subject: Utility for finding duplicate files? In-Reply-To: <20100620223130.GA4505-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100620223130.GA4505@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100621033335.GA4871@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 06:31:30PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Last week, after my main machine's hard drive started making ominous > noises, I copied over just about all data from the machine. There's a > ton of duplication with the major backups on my backup USB drive. I > could do something like... > > #!/bin/bash > for file1 in * > do > if diff -q ${file1} ../dir2/${file1}; then > echo "rm ../dir2/${file1}" >> removelist > fi > done > > ...and then source removelist > > Is there a utility program already written that can generate a list of > duplicate files? 1. find . -type f | xargs ... find . -type f -exec ... 2. rsync -n ... 3. diff -q . ../dir2 -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 14:30:01 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Utility for finding duplicate files? In-Reply-To: <4C1EA548.5010108-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100620223130.GA4505@waltdnes.org> <4C1EA548.5010108@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Jun 2010, Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > FSlint: I've used FSLint before and ended up discovering there were far fewer duplicate files than I had predicted. That was disappointing as I had hoped to clear out more space :) > KleanSweep: Never tried this but it sounds interesting. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 14:27:21 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:27:21 -0400 Subject: Utility for finding duplicate files? In-Reply-To: <20100620223130.GA4505-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100620223130.GA4505@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100621142721.GB17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 06:31:30PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Last week, after my main machine's hard drive started making ominous > noises, I copied over just about all data from the machine. There's a > ton of duplication with the major backups on my backup USB drive. I > could do something like... > > #!/bin/bash > for file1 in * > do > if diff -q ${file1} ../dir2/${file1}; then > echo "rm ../dir2/${file1}" >> removelist > fi > done > > ...and then source removelist > > Is there a utility program already written that can generate a list of > duplicate files? Package: fdupes Priority: optional Section: utils Installed-Size: 80 Maintainer: Sandro Tosi Architecture: i386 Version: 1.50-PR2-1 Depends: libc6 (>= 2.7-1) Filename: pool/main/f/fdupes/fdupes_1.50-PR2-1_i386.deb Size: 17536 MD5sum: 157fc2684c6c169ae4cd4c967af7f48d SHA1: 5d75b0eae0128496e49fb1c59603f7c51acdf58a SHA256: e1b5ccc9fda20a0f8a610cdb8fd1413c32950ca8f0d2c86a4c285a36d2c5cbf4 Description: identifies duplicate files within given directories FDupes uses md5sums and then a byte by byte comparison to find duplicate files within a set of directories. It has several useful options including recursion. Homepage: http://netdial.caribe.net/~adrian2/programs/fdupes.html Tag: implemented-in::c, interface::text-mode, role::program, scope::utility, use::searching, works-with::file I love the -H (hardlink) option. It will then hardlink the identical files together. Can save a large amount of space if you have lots of data that is duplicated between directories. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 14:28:46 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:28:46 -0400 Subject: Opera Unite Web Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100621142846.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 10:55:35PM -0400, Gron Arthur wrote: > I like Opera's web server, but I found loading Opera is too large and > cumbersome, is there another program similar to Opera's Unite? I just > want to use my home machine to host a few files without having to do > too much configuring of my router and such. Well I use apache2 for that job. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 15:26:39 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:26:39 -0400 Subject: Opera Unite Web Server In-Reply-To: <20100621142846.GC17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100621142846.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 10:55:35PM -0400, Gron Arthur wrote: >> I like Opera's web server, but I found loading Opera is too large and >> cumbersome, is there another program similar to Opera's Unite? ?I just >> want to use my home machine to host a few files without having to do >> too much configuring of my router and such. > > Well I use apache2 for that job. I've always liked boa for this kind of thing: it's got a small footprint, particularly in terms of not having a zillion XML files you have to configure. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 15:33:04 2010 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:33:04 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor Message-ID: I'd like to know the details on how to start to work as a contractor for the IT industry - if it's possible to do this FAST and FURIOUS. I've been told you just need to go to a website, but nobody never gave me the details. If one of you contractors can send me a howto on this, I'd be very very thankful. I'll be offering a beer on the next meeting. -- Renata Rocha http://renata.org http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 15:43:29 2010 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:43:29 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry if it wasn't clear enough - I need to become incorporated. That's it. The howtos I've been reading seem too, hm, complex for me and I'd like something like "go there and do this", for n00bs. On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:33, Renata Rocha wrote: > I'd like to know the details on how to start to work as a contractor > for the IT industry - if it's possible to do this FAST and FURIOUS. > I've been told you just need to go to a website, but nobody never gave > me the details. If one of you contractors can send me a howto on this, > I'd be very very thankful. I'll be offering a beer on the next > meeting. > > -- > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha > -- Renata Rocha http://renata.org http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 15:47:01 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:47:01 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C1F8975.1040608@rogers.com> Renata Rocha wrote: > I'd like to know the details on how to start to work as a contractor > for the IT industry - if it's possible to do this FAST and FURIOUS. > I've been told you just need to go to a website, but nobody never gave > me the details. If one of you contractors can send me a howto on this, > I'd be very very thankful. I'll be offering a beer on the next > meeting. > If you have a Social Insurance Number and can legally work in Canada, you just need clients. :) You need to get a GST registration. You might want to form a corporation. You probably want to get an a accountant. Who can help with GST and incorporation. Cheers Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 15:53:12 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:53:12 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C1F8AE8.6050903@dinamis.com> On 06/21/2010 11:33 AM, Renata Rocha wrote: > I'd like to know the details on how to start to work as a contractor > for the IT industry - if it's possible to do this FAST and FURIOUS. > I've been told you just need to go to a website, but nobody never gave > me the details. If one of you contractors can send me a howto on this, > I'd be very very thankful. I'll be offering a beer on the next > meeting. Hi Renata, Having just had this conversation with someone who is new to contracting, the following is close to a copy/paste from that conversation. There is no requirement for you to be incorporated from the outset. You could choose to operate a sole proprietorship. That choice is best discussed with your accountant. See this for an article on the subject: . If you're going to register a sole proprietorship, see this: . Information about registering for the GST/HST: . You must understand the legalities of being a contractor vs. being an employee. See this: . -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 15:54:44 2010 From: jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:54:44 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-BOARD]: Fwd:Test from GMail account In-Reply-To: <1277133390.14309.147.camel-XKwXj0LC4JcgsBAKwltoeQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1E1717.8030207@gmail.com> <4C1E66DC.7020503@linuxcaffe.ca> <4C1E67E6.2010804@gmail.com> <1277133390.14309.147.camel@quartz.ss.org> Message-ID: <4C1F8B44.3090405@gmail.com> Drew Sullivan wrote: > James Knott is only subscribed to via his gmail account. I subscribed via GMail only after my Rogers address stopped working. I have since tried re-registering about 5 times with my Rogers address, but still it still doesn't work. If james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org is not registered, then there's some problem with the list. I'll be sending this reply from both accounts to see which gets through. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 16:21:42 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 12:21:42 -0400 Subject: Opera Unite Web Server In-Reply-To: References: <20100621142846.GC17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100621162142.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:26:39AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 10:55:35PM -0400, Gron Arthur wrote: > >> I like Opera's web server, but I found loading Opera is too large and > >> cumbersome, is there another program similar to Opera's Unite? ?I just > >> want to use my home machine to host a few files without having to do > >> too much configuring of my router and such. > > > > Well I use apache2 for that job. > > I've always liked boa for this kind of thing: > it's got a small footprint, particularly in terms of not having a > zillion XML files you have to configure. XML? Apache doesn't use XML for its config. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 15:56:13 2010 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:56:13 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Self-Counsel Press has some useful guides: http://www.self-counsel.com/default/catalogsearch/result/?q=Incorp&x=27&y=5 some lawyers (or accountants) will guide you through the process for between $500-1000... Scotto On 2010-06-21, at 11:43, Renata Rocha wrote: > Sorry if it wasn't clear enough - I need to become incorporated. > That's it. The howtos I've been reading seem too, hm, complex for me > and I'd like something like "go there and do this", for n00bs. > > On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:33, Renata Rocha > wrote: >> I'd like to know the details on how to start to work as a contractor >> for the IT industry - if it's possible to do this FAST and FURIOUS. >> I've been told you just need to go to a website, but nobody never >> gave >> me the details. If one of you contractors can send me a howto on >> this, >> I'd be very very thankful. I'll be offering a beer on the next >> meeting. >> >> -- >> Renata Rocha >> http://renata.org >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha >> > > > > -- > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 16:32:09 2010 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 12:32:09 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1277137929.13022.10.camel@ubuntu1004a.iprimus.ca> Hi Renata Do a goggle search on CCRA (Canada Customs and Revenue Agency) and they will help you with getting a GST number. In my opinion, you don't need to incorporate right away )I've been a sole proprietor for years). Then set up a resume and start sending the resume out to the consulting/recruiting firms that handle IT contractors, most of whom are on Monster.ca and Workopolis.com Good luck, Renata On Mon, 2010-06-21 at 11:33 -0400, Renata Rocha wrote: > I'd like to know the details on how to start to work as a contractor > for the IT industry - if it's possible to do this FAST and FURIOUS. > I've been told you just need to go to a website, but nobody never gave > me the details. If one of you contractors can send me a howto on this, > I'd be very very thankful. I'll be offering a beer on the next > meeting. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 16:39:09 2010 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 12:39:09 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-BOARD]: Fwd:Test from GMail account In-Reply-To: <4C1F8B44.3090405-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1E1717.8030207@gmail.com> <4C1E66DC.7020503@linuxcaffe.ca> <4C1E67E6.2010804@gmail.com> <1277133390.14309.147.camel@quartz.ss.org> <4C1F8B44.3090405@gmail.com> Message-ID: Nope, sorry, this one didn't make it either :-) On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:54 AM, James Knott wrote: > Drew Sullivan wrote: >> >> James Knott is only subscribed to via his gmail account. > > I subscribed via GMail only after my Rogers address stopped working. ?I have > since tried re-registering about 5 times with my Rogers address, but still > it still doesn't work. ?If james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org is not registered, then > there's some problem with the list. ?I'll be sending this reply from both > accounts to see which gets through. > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 16:51:09 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 12:51:09 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <4C1F8AE8.6050903-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1F8AE8.6050903@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:53 AM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 06/21/2010 11:33 AM, Renata Rocha wrote: >> >> I'd like to know the details on how to start to work as a contractor >> for the IT industry - if it's possible to do this FAST and FURIOUS. >> I've been told you just need to go to a website, but nobody never gave >> me the details. If one of you contractors can send me a howto on this, >> I'd be very very thankful. I'll be offering a beer on the next >> meeting. > > Hi Renata, > > Having just had this conversation with someone who is new to contracting, > the following is close to a copy/paste from that conversation. > > There is no requirement for you to be incorporated from the outset. You > could choose to operate a sole proprietorship. That choice is best discussed > with your accountant. See this for an article on the subject: > . Would-be clients may want to require that they deal with a corporation, to give themselves more of a "warm fuzzy feeling" that they know that you're employed by Someone Else. When they're contracting someone, it's usually rather important to them that they *aren't* hiring an employee, and under such circumstances, it's NOT reassuring to say "Oh, a sole proprietorship is more or less equivalent." Clive's comment of "In my opinion, you don't need to incorporate right away" is arguably a dangerous thing to say - if he's not a lawyer, then stating opinions about legal matters is something the Law Society gets pretty uppity about. Lawyers never give statements that specific, either :-(. More likely, this leads to one of two outcomes: a) You tell the would-be customer, "no, I'm not being employed via a corporation," and they say "Thank you. Have a nice day." (And note that there's no contract, as a result.) b) You say, "yes, you can contract my services via the corporation, MyCorp," and they say "Great, let's set up the paperwork." There are lawyers that have "practices" in setting up corporations of this sort; it tends to cost somewhere between $500 and $1000 to do so. The need to do extra tax returns and such is an unfortunate complication, but if it's needful to get "outcome b)" then it's a necessary evil. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 19:07:49 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 15:07:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <1277137929.13022.10.camel-1CYiOvMc2AXgCvuCvPHGDbZBCjHUbg3j@public.gmane.org> References: <1277137929.13022.10.camel@ubuntu1004a.iprimus.ca> Message-ID: | From: Clive DaSilva | Do a goggle search on CCRA (Canada Customs and Revenue Agency) As announced at the end of 2003, the Customs part was transfered to the new Canada Border Services Agency and CCRA became CRA (Canada Revenue Agency). | and they | will help you with getting a GST number. In my opinion, you don't need | to incorporate right away )I've been a sole proprietor for years). It would be great to hear from folks with experience whether a corporate entity matters for their consulting work. I have a corporation but do not know if that has mattered. It is a bit of a bother: either you hire an accountant or you become an expert in another area of limited usefulness. Because of my nature, I've felt compelled to understand way too much (and yet not enough) corporate law. The Self-Council Press books might well be a nice practical guide through the swamp. (If you don't actually have to do it, accounting is actually an interesting field.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 19:13:50 2010 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 15:13:50 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: <1277137929.13022.10.camel@ubuntu1004a.iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <20100621191350.GB24108@watson-wilon.ca> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 03:07:49PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >It would be great to hear from folks with experience whether a >corporate entity matters for their consulting work. I've been contracting for almost three years now. I work through agencies and direct with my own customers. Agencies will definitely favour a contractor who is incorporated over one who is not. Sincerely, -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 19:20:27 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 15:20:27 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: <1277137929.13022.10.camel@ubuntu1004a.iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <4C1FBB7B.1000303@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > It would be great to hear from folks with experience whether a > corporate entity matters for their consulting work. > > It is essential if working in the US, which I do if necessary. But there is a huge tax advantage to being incorporated. Let the corporation pay taxes at a rate under 20%. Then pay yourself dividends. You can get up to about $38,000 in dividends without paying any personal tax. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 19:59:51 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 15:59:51 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <4C1FBB7B.1000303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1277137929.13022.10.camel@ubuntu1004a.iprimus.ca> <4C1FBB7B.1000303@rogers.com> Message-ID: <2fbde1f1bbea5de26175354df5491161.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> It would be great to hear from folks with experience whether a >> corporate entity matters for their consulting work. >> Back when I did consulting, you had to be incorporated to bid on work for the Ontario Government and the Feds. They wouldn't deal with a Sole Proprietor. (When you think about it, this is wierd, since it's easier to go after the assets of a SP if the deal goes south. It was explained to me that the government 'looks bad' if it goes after an individual, but it can sue a corporation without bad press.) It's true that you have to do the books and file a corporate tax return if you are incorporated, and that's a major pain. You probably have to collect and file GST and PST, more pain. (I'm the only person in Ontario who is happy they are being combined ;). However, you can do the corporate return yourself, especially if the losses offset income, where the return is quite simple in that case. It's quite expensive to hire a professional to do the return - I was paying an accountant about $800 for a very simple return, which is why I took it over myself when times were lean. This year, we're going to try using a computer program for the corporate return. I'd be pleased to hear from anyone who has experience going that route. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 20:29:38 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <4C1FBB7B.1000303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1277137929.13022.10.camel@ubuntu1004a.iprimus.ca> <4C1FBB7B.1000303@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Stephen | But there is a huge tax advantage to being incorporated. One design goal of the Canadian tax system is called "integration". The aim is that any way money gets to you, directly, through a corporation, or corporations, or trusts, via dividends, salary, or distributions, you are supposed to pay roughly the same total tax end-to-end. Integration isn't perfect. It doesn't take into account various oddball distortions. It may not take into account lower tax brackets (I don't know). So: there is not supposed to be a tax advantage to being incorporated. But that does not mean that theory and practice match. As far as I know, the US system doesn't have a similar philosophy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 20:41:40 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:41:40 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <4C1FBB7B.1000303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1277137929.13022.10.camel@ubuntu1004a.iprimus.ca> <4C1FBB7B.1000303@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100621164140.85bf3b70.tleslie@tcn.net> Not to mention you don't need EaO insurance as much, which is a 8k$ savings, if you incorporate. Its suicide to do consulting and not be incorporated. Fortunately it only cost 300$ or so, and as a computer person you are already blessed with professional accounting ability in your genes :) tl On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 15:20:27 -0400 Stephen wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > It would be great to hear from folks with experience whether a > > corporate entity matters for their consulting work. > > > > > It is essential if working in the US, which I do if necessary. > > But there is a huge tax advantage to being incorporated. > > Let the corporation pay taxes at a rate under 20%. > > Then pay yourself dividends. You can get up to about $38,000 in > dividends without paying any personal tax. > > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 21:11:47 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:11:47 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: <1277137929.13022.10.camel@ubuntu1004a.iprimus.ca> <4C1FBB7B.1000303@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4C1FD593.1070401@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Stephen > > | But there is a huge tax advantage to being incorporated. > > One design goal of the Canadian tax system is called "integration". > The aim is that any way money gets to you, directly, through a > corporation, or corporations, or trusts, via dividends, salary, or > distributions, you are supposed to pay roughly the same total tax > end-to-end. Yes, it is supposed to be roughly the same, but the devil is in the details. On the macro-level it may be the same, but individual cases probably will not be a wash. Likely, each individual has to make calculations for their actual circumstances, to know whether incorporating is better. As for dividends and "huge tax advantage", a balance is achieved because the corporation has already paid corporate tax on the earnings before the profits/dividends are distributed. So taxing them at the same rate as personal income would amount to double taxation. So it's not the huge tax advantage that Stephen-d noted in his posting. Where there is a saving is that costs incurred to earn the revenue can be deducted by a corporation, but not an individual. This leaves more in the pot, to give out in dividends, than would have been accumulated in a non-corporate entity. The other advantage is the flexibility to pay dividends in years other than when the revenue was earned. So if you have a good year, you don't have to take a big tax hit too. However, this tax advantage comes at the risk of an unsteady revenue flow (unlike a steady pay cheque). The extra cost and hassle of operating a corporation is real. Whether or not it's worth it can only be decided by you and your accountant/bookkeeper. -- Yanni P.S. To original poster: it's crucial to understand the difference between "consulting contract" and "contract employee". Many companies that hire consultants don't understand the difference, but it'd be a problem for you and that company, if the tax people ever came knocking. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From xyzzypdx-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 21:15:11 2010 From: xyzzypdx-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Pete Lancashire) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 14:15:11 -0700 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks to all who provided info. I will (maybe) moving to TO late 2011 and you have saved me a lot of time since I will be moving my one man corp. with me. -pete On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 8:33 AM, Renata Rocha wrote: > I'd like to know the details on how to start to work as a contractor > for the IT industry - if it's possible to do this FAST and FURIOUS. > I've been told you just need to go to a website, but nobody never gave > me the details. If one of you contractors can send me a howto on this, > I'd be very very thankful. I'll be offering a beer on the next > meeting. > > -- > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 21:17:25 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:17:25 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: <1277137929.13022.10.camel@ubuntu1004a.iprimus.ca> <4C1FBB7B.1000303@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 4:29 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Stephen > > | But there is a huge tax advantage to being incorporated. > > One design goal of the Canadian tax system is called "integration". > The aim is that any way money gets to you, directly, through a > corporation, or corporations, or trusts, via dividends, salary, or > distributions, you are supposed to pay roughly the same total tax > end-to-end. > > Integration isn't perfect. ?It doesn't take into account various > oddball distortions. ?It may not take into account lower tax brackets > (I don't know). No, integration normally does NOT account for lower tax brackets - it has traditionally been targeted at rates at the top tax bracket. It would have to be pretty wackily complex in order to cope with lower tax brackets. Typically, there's some edgy bits in both directions for the lower tax brackets: a) Dividend tax credits are often a "win" for a little while; b) On the other hand, employment income is taxed a bit more lightly in lower brackets. Apparently a) is a bigger "win" than the losses for b). Sometimes, there have been "small business tax credits" that make income held in the company more lightly taxed, though, when I was in this area, small companies would very frequently be "not taxable" (which the newspapers make hay about!) basically because 100% of income was being drawn out as salaries for the owner/manager. The bias that pushed them to "take it as employment income" was that employment income was the basis for future RRSP contribution limits. It was a better deal to get as much as possible into the RRSP. If dividends have gotten drawn into RRSP limits, then that factor has changed. > So: there is not supposed to be a tax advantage to being incorporated. > But that does not mean that theory and practice match. > > As far as I know, the US system doesn't have a similar philosophy. Correct. The notion of integration is rather strange, a little like Christian notions of the Trinity, in that it is never actually stated (e.g. - you never see the word "integration" :-)) in the Holy Writings. (Erm, the Income Tax Act...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_taxes_in_Canada#Integration_of_corporate_and_personal_income_taxes -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 21:21:53 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <4C1FD593.1070401-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1277137929.13022.10.camel@ubuntu1004a.iprimus.ca> <4C1FBB7B.1000303@rogers.com> <4C1FD593.1070401@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jun 2010, Yanni Chiu wrote: > Where there is a saving is that costs incurred to earn the revenue > can be deducted by a corporation, but not an individual. Business costs can be deducted by an individual. (I've been doing it for 40 years.) -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 22:06:58 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:06:58 -0400 Subject: Questions re swap and hibernate interaction on 8 gig machine Message-ID: <20100621220658.GB8164@waltdnes.org> I have 8 gigs of ram on my new sytem (will obviously be 64-bit Gentoo) and I want to know how much swap I need. The general rule of thumb is twice the ram. In this case, it would be 16 gigs. I think that it may not need swap when up, unless I do some heavy duty stuff. My main concern about a swap partition is how much I need for hibernate-to-disk to work. Is there a rule about this, or should I simply allocate 16 gigs out of my terabyte drive, and play it safe? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 22:22:22 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:22:22 -0400 Subject: Questions re swap and hibernate interaction on 8 gig machine In-Reply-To: <20100621220658.GB8164-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100621220658.GB8164@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > ?I have 8 gigs of ram on my new sytem (will obviously be 64-bit Gentoo) > and I want to know how much swap I need. ?The general rule of thumb is > twice the ram. ?In this case, it would be 16 gigs. ?I think that it may > not need swap when up, unless I do some heavy duty stuff. ?My main > concern about a swap partition is how much I need for hibernate-to-disk > to work. ?Is there a rule about this, or should I simply allocate 16 > gigs out of my terabyte drive, and play it safe? On Linux, these days, the value shouldn't be very important. If you don't expect to want to swap, it wouldn't be unreasonable to have NO swap. There have been times on varying versions of Unix where 2x or more swap was *required*, and I recall there being a bug on Linux at one time that required you to have a quantity of swap resembling 2x RAM. But old requirements on other operating systems, and bugs on elderly versions of Linux, should not be treated as binding requirements here, today. I'd think a main reason to want to have a lot of swap would be if you wanted to have a rather large tempfs filesystem. But the data's liable to get lost upon rebooting anyways, so there's nothing mandatory there, either. The "need backing store" requirements of yesteryear don't exist anymore, so there's no strong reason from an "oh, the system REALLY needs it!" perspective to require *any* swap. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 22:35:40 2010 From: jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:35:40 -0400 Subject: Questions re swap and hibernate interaction on 8 gig machine In-Reply-To: <20100621220658.GB8164-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100621220658.GB8164@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4C1FE93C.6080402@gmail.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > The general rule of thumb is twice the ram. That hasn't been the case for many years. It's even possible to run without any swap, if you have sufficient memory. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 22:53:04 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:53:04 -0400 Subject: Questions re swap and hibernate interaction on 8 gig machine In-Reply-To: <4C1FE93C.6080402-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100621220658.GB8164@waltdnes.org> <4C1FE93C.6080402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100621185304.04aa962a.tleslie@tcn.net> I have been running on flash ram drives now for over a year, and of course you can't have swap on that. So I can atest to everything working fine without swap. Ram is cheap, so really no need for swap anymore. Whats 8gb these days? 300-400$? Having said that, on a linux MID or smartphone, i'd guess that may be a good place to still use it. tl On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:35:40 -0400 James Knott wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: > > The general rule of thumb is twice the ram. > That hasn't been the case for many years. It's even possible to run > without any swap, if you have sufficient memory. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 23:01:03 2010 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:01:03 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C1FEF2F.3060806@gmail.com> http://www.ehow.com/how_6196964_become-incorporated-ontario.html Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 21 21:22:37 2010 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:22:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT- Contractor Message-ID: <201006212122.o5LLMbwJ058240@gc0.generalconcepts.com> | Where there is a | saving is that costs incurred to earn the revenue can be deducted by a | corporation, but not an individual. Not correct - a business, incorporated or not, can deduct expenses incurred to earn the revenue. | The other advantage is the flexibility to pay dividends in years | other than when the revenue was earned. So if you have a good year, you | don't have to take a big tax hit too. Not generally correct - the corporation pays tax on income. When you receive dividends, you pay tax on that income and receive (unless things have changed in recent years) a dividend tax credit intended to reflect the tax paid by the corporation. i.e. integration John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 01:07:57 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:07:57 -0400 Subject: Questions re swap and hibernate interaction on 8 gig machine In-Reply-To: <20100621220658.GB8164-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100621220658.GB8164@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100622010757.GA4747@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 06:06:58PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I have 8 gigs of ram on my new sytem (will obviously be 64-bit Gentoo) > and I want to know how much swap I need. The general rule of thumb is > twice the ram. In this case, it would be 16 gigs. I think that it may > not need swap when up, unless I do some heavy duty stuff. My main > concern about a swap partition is how much I need for hibernate-to-disk > to work. Is there a rule about this, or should I simply allocate 16 > gigs out of my terabyte drive, and play it safe? I have 8GB and no swap, and it runs fine. I agree with Bill Gates when he said, "8GB is more than anyone would ever want!". -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 01:23:24 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:23:24 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <201006212122.o5LLMbwJ058240-KXptd8nw1xHC8fiuoqhjLId3RwegZlz3@public.gmane.org> References: <201006212122.o5LLMbwJ058240@gc0.generalconcepts.com> Message-ID: <4C20108C.4030206@rogers.com> On 10-06-21 05:22 PM, John Sellens wrote: > | Where there is a > | saving is that costs incurred to earn the revenue can be deducted by a > | corporation, but not an individual. > > Not correct - a business, incorporated or not, can deduct expenses > incurred to earn the revenue. > > A corporation can be involved in multiple businesses. Some making a profit, some not. You pay tax on the net. As a proprietor, you have much less flexibility. Car expenses work much better with a corporation. I am working in Waterloo at the moment and drive 900 km a week. My corporation gives me a tax free mileage allowance of 52 cents a kilometer, so I get almost $500 a week tax free. My vehicle is almost 8 years old. As a proprietor I would only be able to deduct actual costs and without depreciation that would be little more than gas. Maybe $150 a week. > | The other advantage is the flexibility to pay dividends in years > | other than when the revenue was earned. So if you have a good year, you > | don't have to take a big tax hit too. > > Not generally correct - the corporation pays tax on income. When you > receive dividends, you pay tax on that income and receive (unless things > have changed in recent years) a dividend tax credit intended to reflect > the tax paid by the corporation. > With corporations there is no graduated income tax. In a great year, you still pay less than 20%. As a proprietor, in a great year you reach a marginal rate of over 40%. I learned this the hard way. In my first year of contracting I made $160,000 and the tax bill was very painful. Had I been incorporated I would have about $40,000 more in the bank right now. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 01:33:19 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:33:19 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> If incorporation is the objective, then you need lawyer and accountant. In general, the choice of "sole proprietorship" or "incorporation" is largely determined by clients. If they only do business with "corporations", then you know what to do. Aside from accounting and tax issues, the most important advantage of incorporation is limited liability. Though, if you're the only shareholder, the only executive, and the only employee, then I don't think you can escape resposibility as easily. One thing for sure, you can't escape lawyers and accountants. -- William On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:43:29AM -0400, Renata Rocha wrote: > Sorry if it wasn't clear enough - I need to become incorporated. > That's it. The howtos I've been reading seem too, hm, complex for me > and I'd like something like "go there and do this", for n00bs. > > On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:33, Renata Rocha wrote: > > I'd like to know the details on how to start to work as a contractor > > for the IT industry - if it's possible to do this FAST and FURIOUS. > > I've been told you just need to go to a website, but nobody never gave > > me the details. If one of you contractors can send me a howto on this, > > I'd be very very thankful. I'll be offering a beer on the next > > meeting. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 01:47:28 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:47:28 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <20100622013319.GA4781-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <52121adbd4c9822224d382029e8aa301.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> The first incorporated company I set up with a lawyer. He screwed it up (no shotgun clause for dissolution) and there were problems as a result. The second one I set up myself and it's been fine. So you *can* do it yourself, and you can also do the accounting yourself. This can be important when you're starting out and money is tight. However, when things get complicated (partners, share-purchase agreements, tax optimization) I'd agree that professional help is a good idea. Incidentally, when dealing with lawyers and accountants, it's a good idea to have a very clear idea what you want lawyered and accounted. There's a huge amount of advice on the web, which can get you started in the right direction and armed with pertinent questions. It's also a good idea to find out in advance what the lawyering and accounting are going to cost. (Often, they do not volunteer this information and you have to pry it out of them.) Professional services can be breathtakingly expensive. Is this taking shape to be a TLUG meeting panel discussion, I wonder? Peter > If incorporation is the objective, then you need lawyer and accountant. > > In general, the choice of "sole proprietorship" or "incorporation" is > largely determined by clients. If they only do business with > "corporations", then you know what to do. Aside from accounting and tax > issues, the most important advantage of incorporation is limited > liability. Though, if you're the only shareholder, the only > executive, and the only employee, then I don't think you can escape > resposibility as easily. One thing for sure, you can't escape lawyers > and accountants. > > -- > William > > On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:43:29AM -0400, Renata Rocha wrote: >> Sorry if it wasn't clear enough - I need to become incorporated. >> That's it. The howtos I've been reading seem too, hm, complex for me >> and I'd like something like "go there and do this", for n00bs. >> >> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:33, Renata Rocha wrote: >> > I'd like to know the details on how to start to work as a contractor >> > for the IT industry - if it's possible to do this FAST and FURIOUS. >> > I've been told you just need to go to a website, but nobody never gave >> > me the details. If one of you contractors can send me a howto on this, >> > I'd be very very thankful. I'll be offering a beer on the next >> > meeting. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 02:47:33 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:47:33 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <20100622013319.GA4781-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > ... Though, if you're the only shareholder, the only > executive, and the only employee, then I don't think you can escape > resposibility as easily. But that is the whole purpose of incorporation and limited liability. What might happen is that you might be asked to personally guarantee a contract, but that is beyond what is required. If you're referring to a case of "piercing the corporate veil" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil), then you should avoid doing the things that cause that - i.e. don't mix personal and corporate monies and stuff. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 02:51:04 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:51:04 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: <1277137929.13022.10.camel@ubuntu1004a.iprimus.ca> <4C1FBB7B.1000303@rogers.com> <4C1FD593.1070401@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4C202518.2030707@rogers.com> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jun 2010, Yanni Chiu wrote: > >> Where there is a saving is that costs incurred to earn the revenue >> can be deducted by a corporation, but not an individual. > > Business costs can be deducted by an individual. (I've been doing > it for 40 years.) Right. I should have said that a different set of deductions is available to corporations vs. individuals, which may offer tax advantages. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 03:00:51 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 23:00:51 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <4C202445.1040109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> Or you screw something up and you end up losing your house and car to pay the damages. Don't leave assets in your company, and if sued, it folds. If you are married (commonlaw), you have to incorporate, else you also leave your significant other at risk. Actually, there is just no reason to not incorporate, its just unnecessary exposure. tl On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:47:33 -0400 Yanni Chiu wrote: > William Park wrote: > > ... Though, if you're the only shareholder, the only > > executive, and the only employee, then I don't think you can escape > > resposibility as easily. > > But that is the whole purpose of incorporation and limited liability. > What might happen is that you might be asked to personally guarantee a > contract, but that is beyond what is required. > > If you're referring to a case of "piercing the corporate veil" > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil), then you > should avoid doing the things that cause that - i.e. don't mix personal > and corporate monies and stuff. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 11:32:34 2010 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 07:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My website has several pages for those wanting to start work as a contractor. http://www.pegasoft.ca/contract_rates.html http://www.pegasoft.ca/starting_contractor.html http://www.pegasoft.ca/canceled_contracts.html Ken B. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 21 Jun 2010, Renata Rocha wrote: > I'd like to know the details on how to start to work as a contractor > for the IT industry - if it's possible to do this FAST and FURIOUS. > I've been told you just need to go to a website, but nobody never gave > me the details. If one of you contractors can send me a howto on this, > I'd be very very thankful. I'll be offering a beer on the next > meeting. > > -- > Renata Rocha > http://renata.org > http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 14:34:01 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:34:01 -0400 Subject: suspend-hybrid under ubuntu? Message-ID: really this should go to the ubuntu ml but i really really don't want to subscribe myself back to that monster list. Does anyone know how to get gnome-power-manager to offer suspend-hybrid as a suspend option? pm-utils (which is the backend for g-p-m) knows about hybrid suspend and will trigger an event when pm-suspend-hybrid is called, but I can't get g-p-m to do offer that option in the power menu, or as an automatic funciton when e.g. the suspend button is pressed, laptop lid is closed, or computer is idle. i much prefer the hybrid option b/c there seem to be some bugs with th suspend functionality on my machine and i'm tired of losing data... much thanks as always, matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 14:41:37 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:41:37 -0400 Subject: suspend-hybrid under ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100622144137.GA2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 10:34:01AM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > really this should go to the ubuntu ml but i really really don't want > to subscribe myself back to that monster list. Does anyone know how > to get gnome-power-manager to offer suspend-hybrid as a suspend > option? pm-utils (which is the backend for g-p-m) knows about hybrid > suspend and will trigger an event when pm-suspend-hybrid is called, > but I can't get g-p-m to do offer that option in the power menu, or as > an automatic funciton when e.g. the suspend button is pressed, laptop > lid is closed, or computer is idle. > > i much prefer the hybrid option b/c there seem to be some bugs with th > suspend functionality on my machine and i'm tired of losing data... Well I have seen a package named uswsusp. I think if you have that installed, and you have at least as much swap space as ram, then it should give you the option to suspend. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 14:44:27 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:44:27 -0400 Subject: suspend-hybrid under ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20100622144137.GA2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100622144137.GA2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 10:34:01AM -0400, Matt Price wrote: >> really this should go to the ubuntu ml but i really really don't want >> to subscribe myself back to that monster list. ?Does anyone know how >> to get gnome-power-manager to offer suspend-hybrid as a suspend >> option? ?pm-utils (which is the backend for g-p-m) knows about hybrid >> suspend and will trigger an event when pm-suspend-hybrid is called, >> but I can't get g-p-m to do offer that option in the power menu, or as >> an automatic funciton when e.g. the suspend button is pressed, laptop >> lid is closed, or computer is idle. >> >> i much prefer the hybrid option b/c there seem to be some bugs with th >> suspend functionality on my machine and i'm tired of losing data... > > Well I have seen a package named uswsusp. ?I think if you have that > installed, and you have at least as much swap space as ram, then it > should give you the option to suspend. > thanks lennart, not looking for uswsusp -- i use tuxonice instead, it's much cleaner and in my experience always superior. i just want to be able to get at the underlying functionality through the gnome-power-manager interface. thanks though! matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 14:51:38 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 10:51:38 -0400 Subject: bash scripting try something, but quit if it's taking too long Message-ID: hi, quick scripting question. I have an irritating emacs bug, in which emacs sometimes hangs when the network's disrupted. To deal with this i have just send a command via emacsclient to the running server before i suspend, which solves a solid 90% of my problems. but sometimes emacs is already hung when i want to suspend! in that case, my script hangs too and the suspend event never takes place, which is almost always worse since it causes everything to lose data, not just emacs. here's my tiny function: suspend_wl() { # Get WL to go offline if [-f /tmp/emacs1000/server] then /usr/bin/emacsclient --socket-name /tmp/emacs1000/server --eval "(wl-toggle-plugged 'off)" fi } is there a "try" or similar command i can use around the emacsclient command, to just continue if things are taking too long? Thanks a bunch, as always! matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 15:30:39 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 11:30:39 -0400 Subject: suspend-hybrid under ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <20100622144137.GA2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100622153039.GB2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 10:44:27AM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > thanks lennart, not looking for uswsusp -- i use tuxonice instead, > it's much cleaner and in my experience always superior. i just want > to be able to get at the underlying functionality through the > gnome-power-manager interface. Well unless the userspace interface provided by tuxonice works the same as uswsusp, or acpid or gnome-power-manager or whatever is responsible for handling the signals knows how to use tuxonice, it won't work. So either create wrapper programs for tuxonice to make it look like the normal supported stuff, or add tuxonice support to the other parts. uswsusp works on my laptop with gnome, so it certainly does do what it is supposed to. tuxonice might not. How about tuxonice2? Of course it requires kernel patching, which is just too much hassle. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 15:52:44 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 11:52:44 -0400 Subject: suspend-hybrid under ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20100622153039.GB2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100622144137.GA2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100622153039.GB2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 10:44:27AM -0400, Matt Price wrote: >> thanks lennart, not looking for uswsusp -- i use tuxonice instead, >> it's much cleaner and in my experience always superior. ?i just want >> to be able to get at the underlying functionality through the >> gnome-power-manager interface. > > Well unless the userspace interface provided by tuxonice works the same > as uswsusp, or acpid or gnome-power-manager or whatever is responsible > for handling the signals knows how to use tuxonice, it won't work. > So either create wrapper programs for tuxonice to make it look like the > normal supported stuff, or add tuxonice support to the other parts. > > uswsusp works on my laptop with gnome, so it certainly does do what it > is supposed to. ?tuxonice might not. ?How about tuxonice2? ?Of course > it requires kernel patching, which is just too much hassle. > hmm. now i thought the suspend capabilities were provided by pm-utils, which is supposed to let g-p-m know about what's available. pm-utils sees the tuxonice stuff, so maybe the issue is that pm-utils doesn't send the info up to gpm. just to confirm, we're talking about hybrid suspend, right? in which the kernel suspends to disk but powers down to S3, so in effect you suspend to RAM with a backup to disk. thx, m -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 17:40:15 2010 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 13:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Lone Coder: Visiting VMWare Virtualization 2010 Message-ID: Latest article on my web column: "...By the time I reached the exhibition floor (descending an equal number of spare escalators), my legs were tired from the hike. In front of a small number of harried registration clerks a lineup of more than 100 people snaked randomly between the columns in front of Hall G as if to further test the endurance of anyone who made it that far...Someone showed off his iPad, cradled awkwardly in his arm, which looked liked a iPhone designed for the visually impaired. It was a reminder that this was a conference with an agenda: VMware and its business partners were here to sell their products. They weren't going to talk about the risks, the costs or the alternatives..." The full article is here: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_june_2010.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 18:45:20 2010 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:45:20 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: That depends, in my case, I started as a sole proprietor because all I could afford was the $60 dollar registration. The plan is to incorporate when can afford to. Though from a liability standpoint, I have very little assets so I am only risking personal bankrupcy. With that said, if I can get enough billable hours this month, I will be incorporating. On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:00 PM, ted leslie wrote: > Or you screw something up and you end up losing your house and car to pay the damages. > Don't leave assets in your company, and if sued, it folds. > If you are married (commonlaw), you have to incorporate, else you also leave your significant other at risk. > Actually, there is just no reason to not incorporate, its just unnecessary exposure. > > tl > > On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:47:33 -0400 > Yanni Chiu wrote: > >> William Park wrote: >> > ... ?Though, if you're the only shareholder, the only >> > executive, and the only employee, then I don't think you can escape >> > resposibility as easily. >> >> But that is the whole purpose of incorporation and limited liability. >> What might happen is that you might be asked to personally guarantee a >> contract, but that is beyond what is required. >> >> If you're referring to a case of "piercing the corporate veil" >> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil), then you >> should avoid doing the things that cause that - i.e. don't mix personal >> and corporate monies and stuff. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > ted leslie > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 19:37:47 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash scripting try something, but quit if it's taking too long In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jun 2010, Matt Price wrote: > hi, > > quick scripting question. I have an irritating emacs bug, in which > emacs sometimes hangs when the network's disrupted. To deal with this > i have just send a command via emacsclient to the running server > before i suspend, which solves a solid 90% of my problems. but > sometimes emacs is already hung when i want to suspend! in that case, > my script hangs too and the suspend event never takes place, which is > almost always worse since it causes everything to lose data, not just > emacs. here's my tiny function: > > suspend_wl() > { > # Get WL to go offline > if [-f /tmp/emacs1000/server] > then > /usr/bin/emacsclient --socket-name /tmp/emacs1000/server > --eval "(wl-toggle-plugged 'off)" > fi > } > is there a "try" or similar command i can use around the emacsclient > command, to just continue if things are taking too long? wait=666 ## seconds before timing out suspend_wl & ## put function into the background sleep $wait ## wait kill $! ## kill last background process -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 20:23:34 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 16:23:34 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: While we're on the cost of this thing. Incorporation requires you to have a corporate bank account which means you pay fees to put money in the bank, as well as take it out and they give you no interest. I have done both: I found being a sole proprietor was more difficult at tax time, I had to save the money to pay taxes, I also had to be very careful what I was claiming. As it is difficult to separate personal from business as a SP. Incorporation separates things nicely, plus you can buy your car inside the corp and not pay GST, or HST soon. Now you are "supposed" to claim this as a tax benefit, but I have two cars one for my business and one for my personal use so .... Speaking of the HST, the only people to benefit from it are going to be companies, so having a company will allow you to claim back all of your HST for company purchases. Only your accountant can advise you on how aggressive you should be on what is a company purchase, and what is not. However the real advantage for me was the ability to leave money in the company pay the 18% tax and take it out later. It is my retirement plan. Dave On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Mark Lane wrote: > That depends, in my case, I started as a sole proprietor because all I > could afford was the $60 dollar registration. The plan is to > incorporate when can afford to. Though from a liability standpoint, I > have very little assets so I am only risking personal bankrupcy. With > that said, if I can get enough billable hours this month, I will be > incorporating. > > On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:00 PM, ted leslie wrote: >> Or you screw something up and you end up losing your house and car to pay the damages. >> Don't leave assets in your company, and if sued, it folds. >> If you are married (commonlaw), you have to incorporate, else you also leave your significant other at risk. >> Actually, there is just no reason to not incorporate, its just unnecessary exposure. >> >> tl >> >> On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:47:33 -0400 >> Yanni Chiu wrote: >> >>> William Park wrote: >>> > ... ?Though, if you're the only shareholder, the only >>> > executive, and the only employee, then I don't think you can escape >>> > resposibility as easily. >>> >>> But that is the whole purpose of incorporation and limited liability. >>> What might happen is that you might be asked to personally guarantee a >>> contract, but that is beyond what is required. >>> >>> If you're referring to a case of "piercing the corporate veil" >>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil), then you >>> should avoid doing the things that cause that - i.e. don't mix personal >>> and corporate monies and stuff. >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> >> -- >> ted leslie >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Mark Lane > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 22:03:45 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 18:03:45 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Incorporation separates things nicely, > plus you can buy your car inside the corp and not pay GST, or HST > soon. > Only your accountant can advise you on > how aggressive you should be on what is a company purchase, and what > is not. My understanding is that stuff bought for resale gets a GST refund, or is PST exempt. Stuff bought to operate the company (eg, computers, that are not resold to a client) are taxable. In fact, I had a PST inspector here at my premises to check that it was being done properly. We passed, happily. You also have to be careful in granting exemptions. I know of one company that was audited and had to cough up thousands in PST payments because they had been sloppy about granting PST exemptions. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 22:38:53 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 18:38:53 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 6:03 PM, wrote: >> Incorporation separates things nicely, >> plus you can buy your car inside the corp and not pay GST, or HST >> soon. >> Only your accountant can advise you on >> how aggressive you should be on what is a company purchase, and what >> is not. > > My understanding is that stuff bought for resale gets a GST refund, or is > PST exempt. Stuff bought to operate the company (eg, computers, that are > not resold to a client) are taxable. Yes, that is/was true for PST, however GST now HST is different, and this is the advantage to companies Everything a company, (or a sole proprietor with an HST number) buys for their company is now HST deductible. Dave > > In fact, I had a PST inspector here at my premises to check that it was > being done properly. We passed, happily. > > You also have to be careful in granting exemptions. I know of one company > that was audited and had to cough up thousands in PST payments because > they had been sloppy about granting PST exemptions. > > Peter > > > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 22 22:38:15 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 18:38:15 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 6:03 PM, wrote: >> Incorporation separates things nicely, >> plus you can buy your car inside the corp and not pay GST, or HST >> soon. >> Only your accountant can advise you on >> how aggressive you should be on what is a company purchase, and what >> is not. > > My understanding is that stuff bought for resale gets a GST refund, or is > PST exempt. Stuff bought to operate the company (eg, computers, that are > not resold to a client) are taxable. > > In fact, I had a PST inspector here at my premises to check that it was > being done properly. We passed, happily. > > You also have to be careful in granting exemptions. I know of one company > that was audited and had to cough up thousands in PST payments because > they had been sloppy about granting PST exemptions. GST and PST are quite different kinds of taxes, notably in the area of exemptions. The intent of PST is that it is to be applied only to consumers; when businesses buy goods to use, notably for resale, business purchases are commonly PST-exempt. In contrast, GST is "layered"; GST is to be applied to substantially all kinds of sales, whether to individuals or to businesses. But when a business buys goods to which GST was applied, they get a credit for that. Thus, supposing GST is at 5%... A business buys $105,000 worth of materials and stuff, which had $5K of GST in it. They sell $210,000 of stuff to other folks, of which $10K is GST. No "exemptions" here. That business would be expected to pay CRA $10K - $5K = $5K of GST. Historically, wholesalers and manufacturers have been reluctant to sell to individuals, as this, in a PST-like tax regimen, draws them into needing to figure out who's exempt and who's not. They'd much prefer, in that case, to avoid even needing to think about PST. I'm nearly certain that's why there used to be wholesalers that wouldn't deal with individuals. (And I think I only realized that fact just now.) The GST regimen changes that, and has actually changed the shape of retailing, because it got rid of this "don't want to sell to individuals" mentality. It didn't do so *completely*, but I recall in my youth that there were a whole lot of businesses that refused to sell to the public, which seemed mighty unfair, at the time. Tax policy is a lot more curious than it often appears... For all that GST takes the brunt of a lot of public unpopularity, I think a HUGE dose of that comes from personal hatred of Mulroney's government that enacted the legislation, as opposed to rational analysis of the effects of the policy. (At the time, I watched, with amusement, the general irony that a whole lot of the policies he implemented were of a shape traditional to the Liberals, and the Liberals' noisy opposition used arguments characteristic of Conservative positions of earlier in the century.) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 00:07:16 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:07:16 -0400 Subject: bash scripting try something, but quit if it's taking too long In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 2010, Matt Price wrote: > > > hi, > > > > quick scripting question. I have an irritating emacs bug, in which > > emacs sometimes hangs when the network's disrupted. To deal with this > > i have just send a command via emacsclient to the running server > > before i suspend, which solves a solid 90% of my problems. but > > sometimes emacs is already hung when i want to suspend! in that case, > > my script hangs too and the suspend event never takes place, which is > > almost always worse since it causes everything to lose data, not just > > emacs. here's my tiny function: > > > > suspend_wl() > > { > > # Get WL to go offline > > if [-f /tmp/emacs1000/server] > > then > > /usr/bin/emacsclient --socket-name /tmp/emacs1000/server > > --eval "(wl-toggle-plugged 'off)" > > fi > > } > > is there a "try" or similar command i can use around the emacsclient > > command, to just continue if things are taking too long? > > wait=666 ## seconds before timing out > suspend_wl & ## put function into the background > sleep $wait ## wait > kill $! ## kill last background process > > wouldn't that guarantee that you have to wait $wait seconds before suspend? hmm.. is there no way to, say, test once a second to see whether the job has finished? anyway, thanks much for the help. best, matt > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson, > Author: > Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 00:36:21 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:36:21 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: > now.) > > The GST regimen changes that, and has actually changed the shape of > retailing, because it got rid of this "don't want to sell to > individuals" mentality. ?It didn't do so *completely*, but I recall in > my youth that there were a whole lot of businesses that refused to > sell to the public, which seemed mighty unfair, at the time. > Additionally since we now have "Free Trade" the GST actually makes us more competitive selling to markets outside of Canada than the old manufacturers sales tax. Since we do not charge GST to clients outside of Canada. The old tax was paid to manufacturers by distributors which would then pass it on to consumers on either side of the border. So an item sold to a distributor with the old MST for 100.00 would have 15 dollars of tax in it regardless who it was sold to. Now if it is sold across the border there is no tax. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 00:47:34 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:47:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash scripting try something, but quit if it's taking too long In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jun 2010, Matt Price wrote: > On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > > On Tue, 22 Jun 2010, Matt Price wrote: > > > > > hi, > > > > > > quick scripting question. I have an irritating emacs bug, in which > > > emacs sometimes hangs when the network's disrupted. To deal with this > > > i have just send a command via emacsclient to the running server > > > before i suspend, which solves a solid 90% of my problems. but > > > sometimes emacs is already hung when i want to suspend! in that case, > > > my script hangs too and the suspend event never takes place, which is > > > almost always worse since it causes everything to lose data, not just > > > emacs. here's my tiny function: > > > > > > suspend_wl() > > > { > > > # Get WL to go offline > > > if [-f /tmp/emacs1000/server] > > > then > > > /usr/bin/emacsclient --socket-name /tmp/emacs1000/server > > > --eval "(wl-toggle-plugged 'off)" > > > fi > > > } > > > is there a "try" or similar command i can use around the emacsclient > > > command, to just continue if things are taking too long? > > > > wait=666 ## seconds before timing out > > suspend_wl & ## put function into the background > > sleep $wait ## wait > > kill $! ## kill last background process > > > > wouldn't that guarantee that you have to wait $wait seconds before suspend? > hmm.. is there no way to, say, test once a second to see whether the job has > finished? wait=5 ## seconds before timing out suspend_wl & ## put function into the background while ps $! > /dev/null 2>&1 && [ $wait -gt 0 ] do sleep 1 wait=$(( $wait - 1 )) done ps $! > /dev/null 2>&1 && kill $! -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 01:31:23 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:31:23 -0400 Subject: bash scripting try something, but quit if it's taking too long In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > > wait=5 ## seconds before timing out > suspend_wl & ## put function into the background > > while ps $! > /dev/null 2>&1 && [ $wait -gt 0 ] > do > sleep 1 > wait=$(( $wait - 1 )) > done > ps $! > /dev/null 2>&1 && kill $! > > ah, that's super! trying to understand it, does this mean: while (ps $! gives a nonzero result) and ($wait is greaterthan 0) sleep, reduce wait by 1 and afterwards check if $1 is still running, and kill it looks great, thanks much. i didn't really know that ps returned an exit value! matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 01:42:38 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash scripting try something, but quit if it's taking too long In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jun 2010, Matt Price wrote: > On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > wait=5 ## seconds before timing out > > suspend_wl & ## put function into the background > > > > while ps $! > /dev/null 2>&1 && [ $wait -gt 0 ] > > do > > sleep 1 > > wait=$(( $wait - 1 )) > > done > > ps $! > /dev/null 2>&1 && kill $! > > > > ah, that's super! trying to understand it, does this mean: > > while (ps $! gives a nonzero result) while ps returns a zero exit code (0 == successful) > and ($wait is greaterthan 0) > sleep, reduce wait by 1 > and afterwards > check if $1 is still running, and kill it > > looks great, thanks much. i didn't really know that ps returned an exit > value! > > matt > -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 02:42:31 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:42:31 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: OK, here's the definitive (Canada Revenue Agency) word on HST: you *cannot* apply for an ITC (input tax credit) on capital property. That is, you pay out the HST when you purchase the equipment, and you can't get a refund of the HST later. That's the same as the existing situation with HST. You *can* apply for an ITC on supplies, which is the same as the existing situation. You *can* of course apply the depreciation of the equipment as an expense against your company income. I notice that they upped the depreciation rate for computers, substantially. So you can completely write off a computer in a few years. Here's what it says: ======================================================================= Effect of HST ------------- http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/bspsbch/itc-cti/hwt/cnntclm-eng.html Purchases and expenses for which you cannot claim ITCs There are some purchases and expenses for which you cannot claim an input tax credit (ITC) such as: * certain capital property (for more information, see ITCs for Capital property); ---------------------------------------------------- Capital property Capital property for GST/HST purposes means the same as for income tax purposes subject to a few exceptions. It is: * any depreciable property. This means property that is eligible or would be eligible for a capital cost allowance (CCA) for income tax purposes; and * any property, other than depreciable property, from which any gain or loss if you disposed of the property would be a capital gain or capital loss for income tax purposes. Capital property is property you buy for investment purposes or to earn income. It may include capital real property such as land or a building, or capital personal property such as equipment or machinery that you use in your business. Other examples of capital personal property include: * photocopiers, computers, and cash registers; * furniture and appliances to furnish places such as offices, lobbies, and hotel rooms; and * free-standing refrigerators, ovens, and other large appliances (built-in appliances are fixtures that are usually considered to be part of the real property). -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 02:42:37 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:42:37 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <417a601bb8f073e84b611d2348d8c7d6.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> OK, here's the definitive (Canada Revenue Agency) word on HST: you *cannot* apply for an ITC (input tax credit) on capital property. That is, you pay out the HST when you purchase the equipment, and you can't get a refund of the HST later. That's the same as the existing situation with GST. You *can* apply for an ITC on supplies, which is the same as the existing situation. You *can* of course apply the depreciation of the equipment as an expense against your company income. I notice that they upped the depreciation rate for computers, substantially. So you can completely write off a computer in a few years. Here's what it says: ======================================================================= Effect of HST ------------- http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/bspsbch/itc-cti/hwt/cnntclm-eng.html Purchases and expenses for which you cannot claim ITCs There are some purchases and expenses for which you cannot claim an input tax credit (ITC) such as: * certain capital property (for more information, see ITCs for Capital property); ---------------------------------------------------- Capital property Capital property for GST/HST purposes means the same as for income tax purposes subject to a few exceptions. It is: * any depreciable property. This means property that is eligible or would be eligible for a capital cost allowance (CCA) for income tax purposes; and * any property, other than depreciable property, from which any gain or loss if you disposed of the property would be a capital gain or capital loss for income tax purposes. Capital property is property you buy for investment purposes or to earn income. It may include capital real property such as land or a building, or capital personal property such as equipment or machinery that you use in your business. Other examples of capital personal property include: * photocopiers, computers, and cash registers; * furniture and appliances to furnish places such as offices, lobbies, and hotel rooms; and * free-standing refrigerators, ovens, and other large appliances (built-in appliances are fixtures that are usually considered to be part of the real property). -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 07:01:31 2010 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 03:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash scripting try something, but quit if it's taking too long In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Jun 2010, Matt Price wrote: > On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson > wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 2010, Matt Price wrote: > > > hi, > > > > quick scripting question. I have an irritating emacs bug, in > which > > emacs sometimes hangs when the network's disrupted. To deal > with this > > i have just send a command via emacsclient to the running > server > > before i suspend, which solves a solid 90% of my problems. > but > > sometimes emacs is already hung when i want to suspend! in > that case, > > my script hangs too and the suspend event never takes place, > which is > > almost always worse since it causes everything to lose data, > not just > > emacs. here's my tiny function: > > > > suspend_wl() > > { > > # Get WL to go offline > > if [-f /tmp/emacs1000/server] > > then > > /usr/bin/emacsclient --socket-name > /tmp/emacs1000/server > > --eval "(wl-toggle-plugged 'off)" > > fi > > } > > is there a "try" or similar command i can use around the > emacsclient > > command, to just continue if things are taking too long? > > wait=666 ## seconds before timing out > suspend_wl & ## put function into the background > sleep $wait ## wait > kill $! ## kill last background process > > wouldn't that guarantee that you have to wait $wait seconds before suspend? > hmm.. is there no way to, say, test once a second to see whether the job has > finished? You don't need to poll. If you must do it in Shell, what about this?: trap "kill %1 %2 2>/dev/null" CHLD; suspend_wl & sleep $wait It will take the lesser of $wait or how long 'suspend_wl' runs. ## test timeout [~]$ time -p (set -m; trap "kill %1 %2 2>/dev/null" CHLD; sleep 9 & sleep 2) real 2.00 ... ## test normal completion [~]$ time -p (set -m; trap "kill %1 %2 2>/dev/null" CHLD; sleep 2 & sleep 9) real 2.00 ... If your background task can spawn off other children, I would recommend using Perl or C and creating a new process group for the children. -- Eric B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 09:52:49 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 05:52:49 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: > > Other examples of capital personal property include: > > ? ?* photocopiers, computers, and cash registers; > ? ?* furniture and appliances to furnish places such as offices, lobbies, > and hotel rooms; and > ? ?* free-standing refrigerators, ovens, and other large appliances > (built-in appliances are fixtures that are usually considered to be > part of the real property). Interesting, I did not know that. However, HST on leased capital property would be deductible. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 11:30:41 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 07:30:41 -0400 Subject: bash scripting try something, but quit if it's taking too long In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 3:01 AM, Eric Battersby wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jun 2010, Matt Price wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson < > chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org> > > wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Jun 2010, Matt Price wrote: > > > > > hi, > > > > > > quick scripting question. I have an irritating emacs bug, in > > which > > > emacs sometimes hangs when the network's disrupted. To deal > > with this > > > i have just send a command via emacsclient to the running > > server > > > before i suspend, which solves a solid 90% of my problems. > > but > > > sometimes emacs is already hung when i want to suspend! in > > that case, > > > my script hangs too and the suspend event never takes place, > > which is > > > almost always worse since it causes everything to lose data, > > not just > > > emacs. here's my tiny function: > > > > > > suspend_wl() > > > { > > > # Get WL to go offline > > > if [-f /tmp/emacs1000/server] > > > then > > > /usr/bin/emacsclient --socket-name > > /tmp/emacs1000/server > > > --eval "(wl-toggle-plugged 'off)" > > > fi > > > } > > > is there a "try" or similar command i can use around the > > emacsclient > > > command, to just continue if things are taking too long? > > > > wait=666 ## seconds before timing out > > suspend_wl & ## put function into the background > > sleep $wait ## wait > > kill $! ## kill last background process > > > > wouldn't that guarantee that you have to wait $wait seconds before > suspend? > > hmm.. is there no way to, say, test once a second to see whether the job > has > > finished? > > You don't need to poll. > If you must do it in Shell, what about this?: > > trap "kill %1 %2 2>/dev/null" CHLD; suspend_wl & sleep $wait > > It will take the lesser of $wait or how long 'suspend_wl' runs. > > ## test timeout > [~]$ time -p (set -m; trap "kill %1 %2 2>/dev/null" CHLD; sleep 9 & sleep > 2) > real 2.00 > ... > ## test normal completion > [~]$ time -p (set -m; trap "kill %1 %2 2>/dev/null" CHLD; sleep 2 & sleep > 9) > real 2.00 > ... > > hmm, cool. can you tell me more about what trap does? it doesn't seem to have a man page or much of a --help -- i htink it operates at a lower level than i'm used to. > If your background task can spawn off other children, I would > recommend using Perl or C and creating a new process group for > the children. > > ... if i oculd learn them... but i think keeping it in shell is simpler for now. thanks again! matt > -- > Eric B. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 13:50:06 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 09:50:06 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20100623135006.GC2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 06:38:15PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > GST and PST are quite different kinds of taxes, notably in the area of > exemptions. > > The intent of PST is that it is to be applied only to consumers; when > businesses buy goods to use, notably for resale, business purchases > are commonly PST-exempt. > > In contrast, GST is "layered"; GST is to be applied to substantially > all kinds of sales, whether to individuals or to businesses. But when > a business buys goods to which GST was applied, they get a credit for > that. > > Thus, supposing GST is at 5%... > > A business buys $105,000 worth of materials and stuff, which had $5K > of GST in it. > > They sell $210,000 of stuff to other folks, of which $10K is GST. No > "exemptions" here. > > That business would be expected to pay CRA $10K - $5K = $5K of GST. > > Historically, wholesalers and manufacturers have been reluctant to > sell to individuals, as this, in a PST-like tax regimen, draws them > into needing to figure out who's exempt and who's not. They'd much > prefer, in that case, to avoid even needing to think about PST. I'm > nearly certain that's why there used to be wholesalers that wouldn't > deal with individuals. (And I think I only realized that fact just > now.) Well I know in Denmark they had a very simple way to deal with that. The sales tax was charged all the time, and businesses simply subtracted what they were charged in sales tax from what they had charged their customers and paid the difference. No exception issues for anyone to worry about. I hope the GST is handled more like that at least. > The GST regimen changes that, and has actually changed the shape of > retailing, because it got rid of this "don't want to sell to > individuals" mentality. It didn't do so *completely*, but I recall in > my youth that there were a whole lot of businesses that refused to > sell to the public, which seemed mighty unfair, at the time. > > Tax policy is a lot more curious than it often appears... For all > that GST takes the brunt of a lot of public unpopularity, I think a > HUGE dose of that comes from personal hatred of Mulroney's government > that enacted the legislation, as opposed to rational analysis of the > effects of the policy. (At the time, I watched, with amusement, the > general irony that a whole lot of the policies he implemented were of > a shape traditional to the Liberals, and the Liberals' noisy > opposition used arguments characteristic of Conservative positions of > earlier in the century.) I think it would be more fair if given that the HST is adding PST to a number of items that previously did not have it, then they should remove PST from those items that are GST except (like used car sales). But no, they don't want to loose that income, so the PST gets to stick around for those. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 14:10:33 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 10:10:33 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <20100623135006.GC2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20100623135006.GC2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> That business would be expected to pay CRA $10K - $5K = $5K of GST. >> >> Historically, wholesalers and manufacturers have been reluctant to >> sell to individuals, as this, in a PST-like tax regimen, draws them >> into needing to figure out who's exempt and who's not. ?They'd much >> prefer, in that case, to avoid even needing to think about PST. ?I'm >> nearly certain that's why there used to be wholesalers that wouldn't >> deal with individuals. ?(And I think I only realized that fact just >> now.) > > Well I know in Denmark they had a very simple way to deal with that. > The sales tax was charged all the time, and businesses simply subtracted > what they were charged in sales tax from what they had charged their > customers and paid the difference. ?No exception issues for anyone to > worry about. ?I hope the GST is handled more like that at least. Unfortunately, not quite. Every set of advocacy folks from every kind of area emerged to protest that their area would be destroyed if GST was applied, so, rather than it being a relatively simple tax, the burden of exemption regulations is evidently larger than the not-notably-simple Income Tax Act + ITARs. Noise came from all directions, notably *every* business sector in which GST would have been a new tax, as well as anti-poverty advocates, playing morality cards. > I think it would be more fair if given that the HST is adding PST to > a number of items that previously did not have it, then they should > remove PST from those items that are GST except (like used car sales). > But no, they don't want to loose that income, so the PST gets to stick > around for those. Oh, you noticed that, did you :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 19:53:29 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 15:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: <20100623135006.GC2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20100623135006.GC2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: NOTE: don't rely on what I say about taxes. I'm not an expert. This is not about Linux. But it is a very technical subject. | From: Dave Cramer | Speaking of the HST, the only people to benefit from it are going to | be companies, so having a company will allow you to claim back all of | your HST for company purchases. If you mean by "companies", "Limited Companies", you are not correct. Individuals may claim ITCs for business activities. | From: Dave Cramer | Since we do not charge GST to clients outside | of Canada. |... | Now if it is sold | across the border there is no tax. You are correct, but the fiction is that you are charging tax, just at the rate of 0%. "Zero rated" sales are quite different from exempt sales. I think (but don't know) ITCs are available for inputs to Zero Rated sales but not for exempt sales. | From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org | OK, here's the definitive (Canada Revenue Agency) word on HST: you | *cannot* apply for an ITC (input tax credit) on capital property. That is, | you pay out the HST when you purchase the equipment, and you can't get a | refund of the HST later. I don't think that this is correct. See There are different kinds of capital property. At least "real property" and "personal property" (and "Passenger vehicles and aircraft" which have their own complex GST rules). Most stuff you care about is "personal property". If it is used mostly to provide taxable supplies, then you get to claim an ITC. | You *can* of course apply the depreciation of the equipment as an expense | against your company income. Depreciation as a tax concept (which may well differ from your accounting concept) is called Captal Cost Allowance (CCA). In the case of "Passenger vehicles and aircraft", you may get to claim an ITC based on a GST component of the CCA. | Here's what it says: | ======================================================================= | There are some purchases and expenses for which you cannot claim an input | tax credit (ITC) such as: | | * certain capital property (for more information, see ITCs for Capital ======= | property); Note: "certain" does not mean "all". | From: Lennart Sorensen | I think it would be more fair if given that the HST is adding PST to | a number of items that previously did not have it, then they should | remove PST from those items that are GST except (like used car sales). | But no, they don't want to loose that income, so the PST gets to stick | around for those. Actually, the used-car sales, at least private ones, are going to be charged at the rate of HST, but it isn't HST! They have retained the PST (RST) and increased the rate to create a "level playing field". See footnote 4. Wow. Furthermore, the Province decides what it feels a fair price for the car would be and charges tax on that if your sale price is less. You are allowed to give a vehicle to a certain limited class of relatives (brothers, aunts, etc are not close enough!). You are only allowed to do this once in every 12 month period. It requires a sworn statement with a signature of a Commissioner for Taking Affidavits. Sheesh. I don't really understand why a used car dealer needs to charge HST without getting an ITC for buying it. It seems that the original owner ought to only pay the value subtracted tax. Here's how I think that it ought to work (but not how it does work): Hugh is an ordinary consumer, not an HST registrant. Hugh buys a new car for $20K + 13% HST ($2600) Hugh uses it for 2 years Hugh sells car to Joe's Used and New Kars LTD (JUNK) for $10K JUNK is an HST registrant. Imputed HST on transaction: $10K * 13/113 = $1150.44. No money is sent to CRA since the HST of $2600 was already paid. JUNK gets an ITC of $1150.44. JUNK sells it to Fred for $13K + HST. Net effect: CRA gets the HST on the value of the car once. Plus tax on the value added by subsequent registered vendors. A level playing field would not require any non-registrant to deal with CRA (unless the value of a car was increased by something other than capital appreciation). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From xyzzypdx-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 23 20:25:35 2010 From: xyzzypdx-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Pete Lancashire) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 13:25:35 -0700 Subject: OT- Contractor In-Reply-To: References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20100623135006.GC2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Maybe when I move to TO I should give up on selling my software and hardware engineering skills and go into accounting .. -pete On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:53 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > NOTE: don't rely on what I say about taxes. ?I'm not an expert. > > This is not about Linux. ?But it is a very technical subject. > > | From: Dave Cramer > > | Speaking of the HST, the only people to benefit from it are going to > | be companies, so having a company will allow you to claim back all of > | your HST for company purchases. > > If you mean by "companies", "Limited Companies", you are not correct. > Individuals may claim ITCs for business activities. > > | From: Dave Cramer > > | ?Since we do not charge GST to clients outside > | of Canada. > |... > | ?Now if it is sold > | across the border there is no tax. > > You are correct, but the fiction is that you are charging tax, just at the > rate of 0%. ?"Zero rated" sales are quite different from exempt sales. ?I > think (but don't know) ITCs are available for inputs to Zero Rated sales > but not for exempt sales. > > | From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org > > | OK, here's the definitive (Canada Revenue Agency) word on HST: you > | *cannot* apply for an ITC (input tax credit) on capital property. That is, > | you pay out the HST when you purchase the equipment, and you can't get a > | refund of the HST later. > > I don't think that this is correct. ?See > ? > > There are different kinds of capital property. ?At least "real > property" and "personal property" (and "Passenger vehicles and > aircraft" which have their own complex GST rules). > > Most stuff you care about is "personal property". ?If it is used > mostly to provide taxable supplies, then you get to claim an ITC. > > | You *can* of course apply the depreciation of the equipment as an expense > | against your company income. > > Depreciation as a tax concept (which may well differ from your > accounting concept) is called Captal Cost Allowance (CCA). > > In the case of "Passenger vehicles and aircraft", you may get to claim > an ITC based on a GST component of the CCA. > > | Here's what it says: > | ======================================================================= > > | There are some purchases and expenses for which you cannot claim an input > | tax credit (ITC) such as: > | > | ? ? * certain capital property (for more information, see ITCs for Capital > ? ? ? ?======= > | property); > > Note: "certain" does not mean "all". > > > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | I think it would be more fair if given that the HST is adding PST to > | a number of items that previously did not have it, then they should > | remove PST from those items that are GST except (like used car sales). > | But no, they don't want to loose that income, so the PST gets to stick > | around for those. > > Actually, the used-car sales, at least private ones, are going to be > charged at the rate of HST, but it isn't HST! ?They have retained the > PST (RST) and increased the rate to create a "level playing field". > See footnote 4. > ? > Wow. > > Furthermore, the Province decides what it feels a fair price for the > car would be and charges tax on that if your sale price is less. > > You are allowed to give a vehicle to a certain limited class of > relatives (brothers, aunts, etc are not close enough!). > ? > You are only allowed to do this once in every 12 month period. ?It > requires a sworn statement with a signature of a Commissioner for > Taking Affidavits. ?Sheesh. > > I don't really understand why a used car dealer needs to charge HST > without getting an ITC for buying it. ?It seems that the original > owner ought to only pay the value subtracted tax. > > Here's how I think that it ought to work (but not how it does work): > ? ?Hugh is an ordinary consumer, not an HST registrant. > ? ?Hugh buys a new car for $20K + 13% HST ($2600) > > ? ?Hugh uses it for 2 years > > ? ?Hugh sells car to Joe's Used and New Kars LTD (JUNK) for $10K > ? ? ? ?JUNK is an HST registrant. > ? ? ? ?Imputed HST on transaction: $10K * 13/113 = $1150.44. > ? ? ? ?No money is sent to CRA since the HST of $2600 was already > ? ? ? ?paid. > ? ?JUNK gets an ITC of $1150.44. > > ? ?JUNK sells it to Fred for $13K + HST. > > Net effect: CRA gets the HST on the value of the car once. ?Plus tax > on the value added by subsequent registered vendors. > > A level playing field would not require any non-registrant to deal > with CRA (unless the value of a car was increased by something other > than capital appreciation). > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 01:39:13 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 21:39:13 -0400 Subject: OT- Contractor (HST ITC Issue) In-Reply-To: References: <20100622013319.GA4781@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C202445.1040109@rogers.com> <20100621230051.ef5fe174.tleslie@tcn.net> <543e6fcabf53de8c9fe9f3d5a0777bee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20100623135006.GC2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <954f4d2a6f8b4cdaff44b7123bcc9914.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > | From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org > > | OK, here's the definitive (Canada Revenue Agency) word on HST: you > | *cannot* apply for an ITC (input tax credit) on capital property. That > is, > | you pay out the HST when you purchase the equipment, and you can't get a > | refund of the HST later. > Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I don't think that this is correct. See > > > There are different kinds of capital property. At least "real > property" and "personal property" (and "Passenger vehicles and > aircraft" which have their own complex GST rules). > > Most stuff you care about is "personal property". If it is used > mostly to provide taxable supplies, then you get to claim an ITC. >From the web site that Hugh references: --------------------------------------- Capital personal property The general rules for claiming ITCs for capital personal property such as computers, equipment, and office furniture are as follows: If you use the capital personal property primarily (more than 50%) in your commercial activities, you can claim a full ITC. If you use the capital personal property 50% or less in your commercial activities, you cannot claim an ITC. Example You buy a computer for $2,000 plus GST/HST. You will use the computer 60% in your commercial activities and 40% for personal use. Since you will use the computer more than 50% in your commercial activities, you can claim an ITC for the full amount of the GST/HST you pay for the computer. ---------------------------------------- That's interesting. If you drill down into the CRA website and find 'Capital Personal Property', the above is a direct quote, so it's authoritative. The crux of the matter is the phrase 'Capital Personal Property' for which the above rule seems to apply. I missed that on the first go-round. Thank-you, Hugh, for pointing that out. I think you saved us some money. Incidentally, I believe this is a change (in favour of business) from the PST rules. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 14:32:49 2010 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 10:32:49 -0400 Subject: private servers sharing common root Message-ID: <4C236C91.1030000@tmis.ca> See a setup where they are building a lot of new servers. To enable scripts and automation they all share a common root password. I have learned that the same passwords on multiple servers, especially the same root password is a recipe for an insane amount of work, especially if there is a security breach. Because ALL the servers with the common password must be considered compromised. Now in this instance, these are private servers, not available to the outside public. They are relatively safe and secure. Nevertheless, if a security breach does occur they are all considered compromised. Can a bash script that sets up a common root password, somehow operate on servers with different root passwds? (Sorry if it sounds confusing. I am confused too at this time) Perhaps in a few days I can repost with a clearer picture :) /teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 14:52:21 2010 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 10:52:21 -0400 Subject: solved - Ubuntu 10.04 screen resolutions In-Reply-To: References: <4C02D0B9.6080909@yahoo.ca> <4C03C4F9.1020407@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <4C237125.1050305@yahoo.ca> On 10-05-31 01:41 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: marthter > > | The monitor is (quite old) ViewSonic P815 > | vertical frequency range 50 - 160 Hz > | horizontal frequency range 30 - 115 kHz > > Is it so old that it doesnt' support DDC? Yes and no, and I've tried it both ways with both the open and closed driver. On the (on board) video card has only VGA output. The monitor has a VGA input and a five-BNC-connector input (and I have both a VGA-to-VGA cable for the first case, and a VGA-to-5-BNC cable for the second case). It claims in the manual to support DDC only when using the VGA input but I didn't get any output in Xorg.0.log similar to yours (mentioning DDC or EDID) with either cable. > Have a look in your > /var/log/Xorg.0.log to see what your driver finds. For example, > here's what mine finds. It prints it 3 times (why?). There are not > many choices because an LCD really only wants one mode: > > (II) RADEON(0): Port1: > XRANDR name: DVI-0 > Connector: DVI-I > CRT1: INTERNAL_KLDSCP_DAC1 > DFP2: INTERNAL_KLDSCP_LVTMA > DDC reg: 0x7e40 > (II) RADEON(0): I2C device "DVI-1:E-EDID segment register" registered at address 0x60. > ... > finished output detect: 1 > After suffering at low res for a few weeks (a little too busy to tinker), I took another stab at this... The DDC comment was on the right track however. I tried dozens of times to alter xorg.conf to tell it HorizSync 30-115 Vertrefresh 50-160 in the Monitor section. Both with and without also specifying a ModeLine for 1920x1440. In the tries where I gave a ModeLine, the log file was saying 'No valid modes for "1920x1440"; removing.' but gave no more info on how this was determined. Eventually I found some post on how to turn up logging in xorg. I couldn't find where is the "real" place to increase this logging so that it takes effect on a normal startup, but the fudged way I did it was to switch to the text console (Ctrl-Alt-F1), stop gdm with '/etc/init.d/gdm stop', then start X with 'startx -- -logverbose 6'. This showed (among other things) the following very suspect lines in Xorg.0.log: (II) NVIDIA(0): HorizSync : 28.000-55.000 kHz (II) NVIDIA(0): VertRefresh : 43.000-72.000 Hz (II) NVIDIA(0): (HorizSync from Conservative Defaults) (II) NVIDIA(0): (VertRefresh from Conservative Defaults) This eventually led me to a suggestion to just pick any resolution offered in the NVidia X Server Settings GUI, and to use the button which says "Save to X Configuration File". This gave me a bigger xorg.conf file where the spot that needed changing was clear: ------------------------------------------------------------------ # nvidia-settings: X configuration file generated by nvidia-settings # nvidia-settings: version 1.0 (buildd at yellow) Fri Apr 9 11:51:21 UTC 2010 Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Layout0" Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" Option "Xinerama" "0" EndSection Section "Files" EndSection Section "InputDevice" # generated from default Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "auto" Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "no" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection Section "InputDevice" # generated from default Identifier "Keyboard0" Driver "kbd" EndSection Section "Monitor" # HorizSync source: builtin, VertRefresh source: builtin Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "Unknown" ModelName "CRT-0" # HorizSync 28.0 - 55.0 # VertRefresh 43.0 - 72.0 HorizSync 30.0 - 115.0 VertRefresh 50.0 - 160.0 Option "DPMS" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Device0" Driver "nvidia" VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation" BoardName "GeForce 6150SE nForce 430" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Device0" Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultDepth 24 Option "TwinView" "0" Option "TwinViewXineramaInfoOrder" "CRT-0" Option "metamodes" "1152x864 +0+0" SubSection "Display" Depth 24 EndSubSection EndSection ------------------------------------------------------------------ (In the above I changed only the HorizSync and VertRefresh lines.) On next startup, all the resolutions up to 2048x1536 were in the NVidia GUI as expected. I'm not sure which of the additional options that the GUI added were the relevant ones for getting it to NOT ignore the HorizSync and VertRefresh (which I had already tried eight ways to Sunday). But anyway it is working now in time for the round of 16 : - ) Thanks to all commenters. Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 15:12:06 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 11:12:06 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep Message-ID: Anyone met this guy? http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/827833--common-law-wife-of-computer-specialist-arrested-in-g20-case -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 15:38:10 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 11:38:10 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: lol, I thought that name sounded familiar, he's a member of this list! Anyhow, hope he's okay and this turns out okay for him. The police can kiss my ass. On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Anyone met this guy? > > http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/827833--common-law-wife-of-computer-specialist-arrested-in-g20-case > > -- > TBM > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 16:02:54 2010 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 12:02:54 -0400 Subject: private servers sharing common root In-Reply-To: <4C236C91.1030000-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4C236C91.1030000@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:32 AM, teddy wrote: > > See a setup where they are building a lot of new servers. > To enable scripts and automation they all share a common root password. > > I have learned that the same passwords on multiple servers, especially the > same root > password is a recipe for an insane amount of work, especially if there is a > security > breach. Because ALL the servers with the common password must be considered > compromised. > > Now in this instance, these are private servers, not available to the > outside public. > They are relatively safe and secure. Nevertheless, if a security breach does > occur > they are all considered compromised. > > Can a bash script that sets up a common root password, somehow operate on > servers > with different root passwds? > > (Sorry if it sounds confusing. I am confused too at this time) > Perhaps in a few days I can repost with a clearer picture :) > Yes you can script a different password for each server. I seen a password store used where the passwords for different resources were in individual files and only users/scripts with the correct permissions could read it. You can also use ssh keys. However why do you need to log in as root to administer the box? You could just use sudo or create a less priviledged user to do you administration. How these servers authenticatiing? Are they using shared authentication through LDAP or NIS? -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 16:04:04 2010 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 12:04:04 -0400 Subject: private servers sharing common root In-Reply-To: References: <4C236C91.1030000@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Mark Lane wrote: > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:32 AM, teddy wrote: >> >> See a setup where they are building a lot of new servers. >> To enable scripts and automation they all share a common root password. >> >> I have learned that the same passwords on multiple servers, especially the >> same root >> password is a recipe for an insane amount of work, especially if there is a >> security >> breach. Because ALL the servers with the common password must be considered >> compromised. >> >> Now in this instance, these are private servers, not available to the >> outside public. >> They are relatively safe and secure. Nevertheless, if a security breach does >> occur >> they are all considered compromised. >> >> Can a bash script that sets up a common root password, somehow operate on >> servers >> with different root passwds? >> >> (Sorry if it sounds confusing. I am confused too at this time) >> Perhaps in a few days I can repost with a clearer picture :) >> > > Yes you can script a different password for each server. I seen a > password store used where the passwords for different resources were > in individual files and only users/scripts with the correct > permissions could read it. You can also use ssh keys. > > However why do you need to log in as root to administer the box? You > could just use sudo or create a less priviledged user to do you > administration. How these servers authenticatiing? Are they using > shared authentication through LDAP or NIS? > I mean administer by script as root. -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 16:12:47 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 12:12:47 -0400 Subject: private servers sharing common root In-Reply-To: References: <4C236C91.1030000@tmis.ca> Message-ID: Why not administer by script as root, but logging in from another server using a SSH key? By doing this you simply don't have to worry about passwords and the whole setup can become even more secure. Don't forget that this works: $ ssh root at server 'echo "This will run on the server, and could be any command"' I did this all the time do manage my EC2 servers. - FZ On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 12:04, Mark Lane wrote: > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Mark Lane wrote: >> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:32 AM, teddy wrote: >>> >>> See a setup where they are building a lot of new servers. >>> To enable scripts and automation they all share a common root password. >>> >>> I have learned that the same passwords on multiple servers, especially the >>> same root >>> password is a recipe for an insane amount of work, especially if there is a >>> security >>> breach. Because ALL the servers with the common password must be considered >>> compromised. >>> >>> Now in this instance, these are private servers, not available to the >>> outside public. >>> They are relatively safe and secure. Nevertheless, if a security breach does >>> occur >>> they are all considered compromised. >>> >>> Can a bash script that sets up a common root password, somehow operate on >>> servers >>> with different root passwds? >>> >>> (Sorry if it sounds confusing. I am confused too at this time) >>> Perhaps in a few days I can repost with a clearer picture :) >>> >> >> Yes you can script a different password for each server. I seen a >> password store used where the passwords for different resources were >> in individual files and only users/scripts with the correct >> permissions could read it. You can also use ssh keys. >> >> However why do you need to log in as root to administer the box? You >> could just use sudo or create a less priviledged user to do you >> administration. How these servers authenticatiing? Are they using >> shared authentication through LDAP or NIS? >> > I mean administer by script as root. > > -- > Mark Lane > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 16:24:42 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 12:24:42 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C2386CA.5020705@alteeve.com> On 10-06-24 11:12 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Anyone met this guy? > > http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/827833--common-law-wife-of-computer-specialist-arrested-in-g20-case Yes, he's a very nice guy with more ethics than most of us put together. So much so that he put his neck on the line to fight this "temporary" restriction on our rights and freedoms. He fought them with knowledge, they fought him with cuffs. He *never once* advised anything illegal. In fact, most of his posts were about staying within the law. He shared non-violent ways of resisting this farce of "G20 security" and pissed all over the cop's shoes in doing so. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 16:43:32 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 12:43:32 -0400 Subject: private servers sharing common root In-Reply-To: <4C236C91.1030000-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4C236C91.1030000@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:32 AM, teddy wrote: > To enable scripts and automation they all share a common root password. > > I have learned that the same passwords on multiple servers, especially the > same root > password is a recipe for an insane amount of work, especially if there is a > security > breach. Because ALL the servers with the common password must be considered > compromised. Yep, I agree that having the same root password everywhere is likely to be troublesome if you're particularly worried about security. I'd be inclined to have routine administration take place based on a "pull" model instead of the "push" model characteristic of 'logging in to each box.' http://www.infrastructures.org/bootstrap/pushpull.shtml -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 16:54:42 2010 From: jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 12:54:42 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-BOARD]: Fwd:Test from GMail account In-Reply-To: <4C1F8B44.3090405-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C1E1717.8030207@gmail.com> <4C1E66DC.7020503@linuxcaffe.ca> <4C1E67E6.2010804@gmail.com> <1277133390.14309.147.camel@quartz.ss.org> <4C1F8B44.3090405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C238DD2.4000202@gmail.com> James Knott wrote: > Drew Sullivan wrote: >> James Knott is only subscribed to via his gmail account. > I subscribed via GMail only after my Rogers address stopped working. > I have since tried re-registering about 5 times with my Rogers > address, but still it still doesn't work. If james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > is not registered, then there's some problem with the list. I'll be > sending this reply from both accounts to see which gets through. > > > Any idea when this will be resolved? I'd rather not have to use my GMail account to access this list, as it's intended for other purposes. tnx jk -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 17:40:25 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 13:40:25 -0400 Subject: solved - Ubuntu 10.04 screen resolutions In-Reply-To: <4C237125.1050305-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C02D0B9.6080909@yahoo.ca> <4C03C4F9.1020407@yahoo.ca> <4C237125.1050305@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20100624174025.GD2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:52:21AM -0400, marthter wrote: > Yes and no, and I've tried it both ways with both the open and closed > driver. On the (on board) video card has only VGA output. The monitor > has a VGA input and a five-BNC-connector input (and I have both a > VGA-to-VGA cable for the first case, and a VGA-to-5-BNC cable for the > second case). It claims in the manual to support DDC only when using > the VGA input but I didn't get any output in Xorg.0.log similar to yours > (mentioning DDC or EDID) with either cable. 5 BNC only provides RGB and H/V Sync. No data. You need extra pins for the DDC data. > After suffering at low res for a few weeks (a little too busy to > tinker), I took another stab at this... > > The DDC comment was on the right track however. I tried dozens of times > to alter xorg.conf to tell it HorizSync 30-115 Vertrefresh 50-160 > in the Monitor section. Both with and without also specifying a > ModeLine for 1920x1440. > > In the tries where I gave a ModeLine, the log file was saying 'No valid > modes for "1920x1440"; removing.' but gave no more info on how this was > determined. There may not be any modelines by default for 1920x1440 (what an odd resolution). I guess it is within the range supported by VGA (2048x1536 is supported as far as I recall, although I don't remember at what refresh rate). > Eventually I found some post on how to turn up logging in xorg. I > couldn't find where is the "real" place to increase this logging so that > it takes effect on a normal startup, but the fudged way I did it was to > switch to the text console (Ctrl-Alt-F1), stop gdm with '/etc/init.d/gdm > stop', then start X with 'startx -- -logverbose 6'. This showed (among > other things) the following very suspect lines in Xorg.0.log: > > (II) NVIDIA(0): HorizSync : 28.000-55.000 kHz > (II) NVIDIA(0): VertRefresh : 43.000-72.000 Hz > (II) NVIDIA(0): (HorizSync from Conservative Defaults) > (II) NVIDIA(0): (VertRefresh from Conservative Defaults) > > This eventually led me to a suggestion to just pick any resolution > offered in the NVidia X Server Settings GUI, and to use the button which > says "Save to X Configuration File". This gave me a bigger xorg.conf > file where the spot that needed changing was clear: > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > # nvidia-settings: X configuration file generated by nvidia-settings > # nvidia-settings: version 1.0 (buildd at yellow) Fri Apr 9 11:51:21 > UTC 2010 > > Section "ServerLayout" > Identifier "Layout0" > Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 > InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" > InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" > Option "Xinerama" "0" > EndSection > > Section "Files" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > # generated from default > Identifier "Mouse0" > Driver "mouse" > Option "Protocol" "auto" > Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" > Option "Emulate3Buttons" "no" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > # generated from default > Identifier "Keyboard0" > Driver "kbd" > EndSection > > Section "Monitor" > # HorizSync source: builtin, VertRefresh source: builtin > Identifier "Monitor0" > VendorName "Unknown" > ModelName "CRT-0" > # HorizSync 28.0 - 55.0 > # VertRefresh 43.0 - 72.0 > HorizSync 30.0 - 115.0 > VertRefresh 50.0 - 160.0 > Option "DPMS" > EndSection > > Section "Device" > Identifier "Device0" > Driver "nvidia" > VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation" > BoardName "GeForce 6150SE nForce 430" > EndSection > > Section "Screen" > Identifier "Screen0" > Device "Device0" > Monitor "Monitor0" > DefaultDepth 24 > Option "TwinView" "0" > Option "TwinViewXineramaInfoOrder" "CRT-0" > Option "metamodes" "1152x864 +0+0" > SubSection "Display" > Depth 24 > EndSubSection > EndSection > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > (In the above I changed only the HorizSync and VertRefresh lines.) On > next startup, all the resolutions up to 2048x1536 were in the NVidia GUI > as expected. I'm not sure which of the additional options that the GUI > added were the relevant ones for getting it to NOT ignore the HorizSync > and VertRefresh (which I had already tried eight ways to Sunday). But > anyway it is working now in time for the round of 16 : - ) > > Thanks to all commenters. Neat. So it all works now then? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 20:26:31 2010 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 16:26:31 -0400 Subject: private servers sharing common root In-Reply-To: References: <4C236C91.1030000@tmis.ca> Message-ID: While I would be inclined to do it that way too, it would be more secure if you logged in as someone other than root. Correct me if I am wrong but turning off root login in SSH is a pretty standard procedure is it not. On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:32 AM, teddy wrote: >> To enable scripts and automation they all share a common root password. >> >> I have learned that the same passwords on multiple servers, especially the >> same root >> password is a recipe for an insane amount of work, especially if there is a >> security >> breach. Because ALL the servers with the common password must be considered >> compromised. > > Yep, I agree that having the same root password everywhere is likely > to be troublesome if you're particularly worried about security. > > I'd be inclined to have routine administration take place based on a > "pull" model instead of the "push" model characteristic of 'logging in > to each box.' > > http://www.infrastructures.org/bootstrap/pushpull.shtml > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 21:00:16 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 17:00:16 -0400 Subject: private servers sharing common root In-Reply-To: References: <4C236C91.1030000@tmis.ca> Message-ID: Yes, but you don't have to abide to it. You can turn off password logins and enable root logins with keys, which is really not that bad security-wise. Anyway, depending on what you want to do, putting your config files and scripts under version control could be a good solution. When anything needs to be changed, just alter the files, push them to the repo and pull everything back on all servers (I don't know if this is what Chris was talking about -- I didn't have time to look at the articles). FZ On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 16:26, Mark Lane wrote: > While I would be inclined to do it that way too, it would be more > secure if you logged in as someone other than root. Correct me if I am > wrong but turning off root login in SSH is a pretty standard procedure > is it not. > > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:32 AM, teddy wrote: >>> To enable scripts and automation they all share a common root password. >>> >>> I have learned that the same passwords on multiple servers, especially the >>> same root >>> password is a recipe for an insane amount of work, especially if there is a >>> security >>> breach. Because ALL the servers with the common password must be considered >>> compromised. >> >> Yep, I agree that having the same root password everywhere is likely >> to be troublesome if you're particularly worried about security. >> >> I'd be inclined to have routine administration take place based on a >> "pull" model instead of the "push" model characteristic of 'logging in >> to each box.' >> >> http://www.infrastructures.org/bootstrap/pushpull.shtml >> -- >> http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Mark Lane > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 21:07:34 2010 From: marthter-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (marthter) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 17:07:34 -0400 Subject: solved - Ubuntu 10.04 screen resolutions In-Reply-To: <20100624174025.GD2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4C02D0B9.6080909@yahoo.ca> <4C03C4F9.1020407@yahoo.ca> <4C237125.1050305@yahoo.ca> <20100624174025.GD2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4C23C916.6040802@yahoo.ca> On 10-06-24 01:40 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:52:21AM -0400, marthter wrote: > >> Yes and no, and I've tried it both ways with both the open and closed >> driver. On the (on board) video card has only VGA output. The monitor >> has a VGA input and a five-BNC-connector input (and I have both a >> VGA-to-VGA cable for the first case, and a VGA-to-5-BNC cable for the >> second case). It claims in the manual to support DDC only when using >> the VGA input but I didn't get any output in Xorg.0.log similar to yours >> (mentioning DDC or EDID) with either cable. >> > 5 BNC only provides RGB and H/V Sync. No data. You need extra pins > for the DDC data. > Yes, that's what I meant. I wasn't expecting the DDC to work when using the VGA-to-5-BNC cable, but I was expecting it to work (per the monitor's manual) when using the VGA-to-VGA cable, yet it didn't. >> After suffering at low res for a few weeks (a little too busy to >> tinker), I took another stab at this... >> >> The DDC comment was on the right track however. I tried dozens of times >> to alter xorg.conf to tell it HorizSync 30-115 Vertrefresh 50-160 >> in the Monitor section. Both with and without also specifying a >> ModeLine for 1920x1440. >> >> In the tries where I gave a ModeLine, the log file was saying 'No valid >> modes for "1920x1440"; removing.' but gave no more info on how this was >> determined. >> > There may not be any modelines by default for 1920x1440 (what an odd > resolution). Yes I was pleasantly surprised to find it in the list one time many incarnations ago and have often had to jump through hoops to get it back (this old monitor has outlasted many a box). Though on the other hand it isn't really that odd, as it _is_ a 4:3 resolution (640x480 tripled in each direction) and for HD viewing (1920x1080) it displays more or less natively, i.e. doesn't require scaling, just the black bars. The one I never understood was 1280x1024 (5:4 aspect when almost everything was 4:3 - until the more recent 16:9 trend of course). > I guess it is within the range supported by VGA (2048x1536 > is supported as far as I recall, although I don't remember at what > refresh rate). > >> Eventually I found some post on how to turn up logging in xorg. I >> couldn't find where is the "real" place to increase this logging so that >> it takes effect on a normal startup, but the fudged way I did it was to >> switch to the text console (Ctrl-Alt-F1), stop gdm with '/etc/init.d/gdm >> stop', then start X with 'startx -- -logverbose 6'. This showed (among >> other things) the following very suspect lines in Xorg.0.log: >> >> (II) NVIDIA(0): HorizSync : 28.000-55.000 kHz >> (II) NVIDIA(0): VertRefresh : 43.000-72.000 Hz >> (II) NVIDIA(0): (HorizSync from Conservative Defaults) >> (II) NVIDIA(0): (VertRefresh from Conservative Defaults) >> >> This eventually led me to a suggestion to just pick any resolution >> offered in the NVidia X Server Settings GUI, and to use the button which >> says "Save to X Configuration File". This gave me a bigger xorg.conf >> file where the spot that needed changing was clear: >> >> >> ... >> >> >> (In the above I changed only the HorizSync and VertRefresh lines.) On >> next startup, all the resolutions up to 2048x1536 were in the NVidia GUI >> as expected. I'm not sure which of the additional options that the GUI >> added were the relevant ones for getting it to NOT ignore the HorizSync >> and VertRefresh (which I had already tried eight ways to Sunday). But >> anyway it is working now in time for the round of 16 : - ) >> >> Thanks to all commenters. >> > Neat. So it all works now then? > Yes, working great and the TV (FIFA football of course) playback is smooth now with the NVidia driver, unlike the open un-accerated driver (where I initially could get the resolution I wanted but not the smoothness). Although one could argue this is still a bug, as there should be a more user friendly option for when the monitor is not detected at all. I guess they went down that road in past releases of letting you choose from every brand and model under the sun and are moving to autodetection more now. Shrug. Cheers. Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 24 23:52:47 2010 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 19:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash scripting try something, but quit if it's taking too long In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jun 2010, Matt Price wrote: > > You don't need to poll. > > If you must do it in Shell, what about this?: > > > > trap "kill %1 %2 2>/dev/null" CHLD; suspend_wl & sleep $wait > > > > It will take the lesser of $wait or how long 'suspend_wl' runs. > > hmm, cool. can you tell me more about what trap does? it doesn't seem to > have a man page or much of a --help -- i htink it operates at a lower level > than i'm used to. It does have a man page. Type 'man trap' and you should be directed to the 'bash' man page. In there, scroll down, or search for the 'trap' section. This section is brief. Traps (or signal handlers) are methods of performing an immediate action when a signal (or interupt) is generated. After the action, the code after the statement which generated the signal should be next to execute. In the above case, the end of a child process causes a signal to be generated The topic of signal handling can become complex, so I would suggest looking elsewhere if you need detailed information. -- Eric B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 00:37:19 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 20:37:19 -0400 Subject: private servers sharing common root In-Reply-To: References: <4C236C91.1030000@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Fabio FZero wrote: > Yes, but you don't have to abide to it. You can turn off password > logins and enable root logins with keys, which is really not that bad > security-wise. I could easily go either way on that... Yes, keys provide *some* security, however, if you log in directly as root, there's no identification of who was doing that. Forbidding root login and requiring that people login as themselves, then authenticate to root, is a common security doctrine. It does prevent automating root login, but it's not obvious that it's good to make that an easy thing to do. > Anyway, depending on what you want to do, putting your config files > and scripts under version control could be a good solution. When > anything needs to be changed, just alter the files, push them to the > repo and pull everything back on all servers (I don't know if this is > what Chris was talking about -- I didn't have time to look at the > articles). What you're pulling from is less important than that you're pulling. Code folk have a liking for using SCMs as the thing to pull from. The infrastructure.org folk recommend stuff like sup. When I've encouraged this in production environments, I used the "copy protocol" used in cfengine. Neither of those directly support versioning; they instead commend having the version management take place in another layer. But again, the point is that how you pull, or where you pull from, is much less important than that the servers pull from places they intentionally trust as sources. That makes a lot of challenges (e.g. - in negotiating incoming connections securely) go away, and when the servers serve themselves, you run rather less risk of forgetting to fix one of them. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 10:51:16 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 06:51:16 -0400 Subject: G20 security cameras Message-ID: The ISU has published lists of the new police-operated security cameras. Here they are shown, in red, on a map as they were installed. You might find the map an easier way to internalize the camera locations. These cameras are supposed to be temporary and be removed after G20. http://toolserver.org/~osm/styles/?zoom=16&lat=43.64697&lon=-79.3853&layers=B000T0FF0000F0FFF You can help by confirming that the cameras have been removed after G20. If they are not removed immediately, I suggest that parking your bike at a bike rack near a camera will make your bike extra-secure. Because the cameras are here to help us. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 11:01:54 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 07:01:54 -0400 Subject: G20 security cameras In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 06:51, Richard Weait wrote: > The ISU has published lists of the new police-operated security > cameras. ?Here they are shown, in red, on a map as they were > installed. ?You might find the map an easier way to internalize the > camera locations. ?These cameras are supposed to be temporary and be > removed after G20. > > http://toolserver.org/~osm/styles/?zoom=16&lat=43.64697&lon=-79.3853&layers=B000T0FF0000F0FFF > > You can help by confirming that the cameras have been removed after G20. > > If they are not removed immediately, I suggest that parking your bike > at a bike rack near a camera will make your bike extra-secure. Because > the cameras are here to help us. I have a feeling they won't be removed. Oh, and don't you just love the placement of the cameras on Gerrard, that's to keep an eye on the street kids at Covenant House. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 12:43:57 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 08:43:57 -0400 Subject: private servers sharing common root In-Reply-To: References: <4C236C91.1030000@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 20:37, Christopher Browne wrote: (...) > Yes, keys provide *some* security, however, if you log in directly as > root, there's no identification of who was doing that. Correct. I think the best practice would be users with just the right amount of privileges. Some group tweakings could do the trick. >> Anyway, depending on what you want to do, putting your config files >> and scripts under version control could be a good solution. When >> anything needs to be changed, just alter the files, push them to the >> repo and pull everything back on all servers (I don't know if this is >> what Chris was talking about -- I didn't have time to look at the >> articles). > > What you're pulling from is less important than that you're pulling. > > Code folk have a liking for using SCMs as the thing to pull from. Yes, it has the added advantage of being able to go back quickly if something blows up. I used to manage a server farm where the sensitive files were on Subversion. It was a relief being able to change Apache configs and just run a script making dozens of servers update and reload the settings at once! > But again, the point is that how you pull, or where you pull from, is > much less important than that ?the servers pull from places they > intentionally trust as sources. ?That makes a lot of challenges (e.g. > - in negotiating incoming connections securely) go away, and when the > servers serve themselves, you run rather less risk of forgetting to > fix one of them. This paragraph should be framed. - FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 13:40:45 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 09:40:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jun 2010, Thomas Milne wrote: > Anyone met this guy? > > http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/827833--common-law-wife-of-computer-specialist-arrested-in-g20-case Quite a number of people on this list know Byron. I worked with him in 2003 and have talked to him occassionally since. My impression of Byron is that he is not the type of guy who would intentionally harm others. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 14:18:34 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 10:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Questions re swap and hibernate interaction on 8 gig machine In-Reply-To: References: <20100621220658.GB8164@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jun 2010, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Linux, these days, the value shouldn't be very important. If you > don't expect to want to swap, it wouldn't be unreasonable to have NO > swap. I notice a number of people have mentioned running with no swap. While that is certainly possible I still argue in favour of having some swap, even if swappiness is set to 0. My arguments are set out here: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com/wiki/index.php/Swap > There have been times on varying versions of Unix where 2x or more > swap was *required*, and I recall there being a bug on Linux at one > time that required you to have a quantity of swap resembling 2x RAM. IIRC the system wouldn't swap unless it had _at least_ 2x ram which meant most systems stopped swapping entirely :) That bug was fixed *fast*. > But old requirements on other operating systems, and bugs on elderly > versions of Linux, should not be treated as binding requirements here, > today. Agreed. > I'd think a main reason to want to have a lot of swap would be if you > wanted to have a rather large tempfs filesystem. But the data's I'm not a fan of using tmpfs for /tmp. I think it is a solution looking for a problem. Essentially I argue that most apps write so little to /tmp that the use of a special case isn't warranted. Other uses of tmpfs may make a lot of sense though. The other main reason for swap is the one the OP asked about - hibernation. A swap partition is needed - you can't swap to a swap file under Linux[1]. In principal you'd need as much swap as ram to guarantee a successful hibernation but it could work with less. If there aren't sufficient resources the hibernation should fail gracefully. Personally I use sleep a lot and rarely hibernate. [1] Last time I checked. Theoretically it is possible. I'd love to hear this had been fixed but I haven't seen any reports. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 14:23:40 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 10:23:40 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 25 June 2010 09:40, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jun 2010, Thomas Milne wrote: > >> Anyone met this guy? >> >> >> http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/827833--common-law-wife-of-computer-specialist-arrested-in-g20-case > > Quite a number of people on this list know Byron. ?I worked with him in 2003 > and have talked to him occassionally since. > > My impression of Byron is that he is not the type of guy who would > intentionally harm others. Many of you have probably noticed, but if for those who haven't ... it's hit Slashdot: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/06/24/1837202/Canadian-Arrested-Over-Plans-to-Test-G20-Security -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 14:44:09 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 10:44:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Questions re swap and hibernate interaction on 8 gig machine In-Reply-To: References: <20100621220658.GB8164@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Robert Brockway | My arguments are set out here: | | http://www.practicalsysadmin.com/wiki/index.php/Swap Thanks for that useful page. | The other main reason for swap is the one the OP asked about - hibernation. You don't mention that on your page. Should you? | A | swap partition is needed - you can't swap to a swap file under Linux[1]. | [1] Last time I checked. Theoretically it is possible. I'd love to hear this | had been fixed but I haven't seen any reports. Do you meand "you can't hibernate to a swap file"? Is that restriction documented somewhere (I haven't looked very hard)? If you really mean that the system cannot swap to a swap file, is that documented somewhere? The swapon(8) awkwardly kind of says that a file can be used. mkswap(8) talks about how to initialize a swap file. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 14:58:33 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 10:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jun 2010, Giles Orr wrote: > On 25 June 2010 09:40, Robert Brockway wrote: >> On Thu, 24 Jun 2010, Thomas Milne wrote: >> >>> Anyone met this guy? >>> >>> >>> http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/827833--common-law-wife-of-computer-specialist-arrested-in-g20-case >> >> Quite a number of people on this list know Byron. ?I worked with him in 2003 >> and have talked to him occassionally since. >> >> My impression of Byron is that he is not the type of guy who would >> intentionally harm others. > > Many of you have probably noticed, but if for those who haven't ... > it's hit Slashdot: > > http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/06/24/1837202/Canadian-Arrested-Over-Plans-to-Test-G20-Security Due to the G20 connection is all over foreign media too. Byron's CISSP has been suspended according to this site: http://www.belch.com/blog/2010/06/24/byron-sonne-g20-bomber-was-a-cissp/ I don't believe it is appropriate to suspend a qualification merely on an allegation. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 15:28:52 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 08:28:52 -0700 Subject: MD5 sum from dhcpd (Debian/etch 2.0.pl5-19) Message-ID: Does anyone have an "etch" machine with the old (32-bit) "dhcp" package installed? If so, could they MD5sum the /usr/sbin/dhcpd binary? Thanks, TJA -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 15:51:34 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:51:34 -0400 Subject: MD5 sum from dhcpd (Debian/etch 2.0.pl5-19) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: myles at serenity:~$ uname -a Linux serenity.local 2.6.18-6-686 #1 SMP Thu Aug 20 21:56:59 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux myles at serenity:~$ cat /etc/debian_version 4.0 myles at serenity:~$ md5sum /usr/sbin/dhcpd 9353b3c98f4fb049a211cef40fcd2dcb /usr/sbin/dhcpd On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Does anyone have an "etch" machine with the old (32-bit) "dhcp" > package installed? If so, could they MD5sum the /usr/sbin/dhcpd > binary? > > > Thanks, > > > TJA > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2/DCTS/CLA > > ?It can takes months to gain a customer, but only seconds to lose one" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 17:21:05 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Questions re swap and hibernate interaction on 8 gig machine In-Reply-To: References: <20100621220658.GB8164@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jun 2010, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | The other main reason for swap is the one the OP asked about - hibernation. > > You don't mention that on your page. Should you? Hi hugh. It's actually mentioned on a different page: http://practicalsysadmin.com/wiki/index.php/Swap_file I probably should highlight it on the other page too. > | [1] Last time I checked. Theoretically it is possible. I'd love to hear this > | had been fixed but I haven't seen any reports. > > Do you meand "you can't hibernate to a swap file"? Is that > restriction documented somewhere (I haven't looked very hard)? Exactly. When I tried to do it, hibernating to a swap file failed. I'm sure I did find documentation on that at some point. I keep an eye out to see if the limitation has been fixed. > If you really mean that the system cannot swap to a swap file, is that > documented somewhere? The swapon(8) awkwardly kind of says that a > file can be used. mkswap(8) talks about how to initialize a swap file. You most definitely can swap to a swap file (otherwise it would be useless). In fact a swap file is as efficient as a swap partition under linux 2.6 kernels. My preference is to use swap files due to their advantages except on laptops due to the desire to hibernate. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 17:35:44 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:35:44 -0400 Subject: solved - Ubuntu 10.04 screen resolutions In-Reply-To: <4C23C916.6040802-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C02D0B9.6080909@yahoo.ca> <4C03C4F9.1020407@yahoo.ca> <4C237125.1050305@yahoo.ca> <20100624174025.GD2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4C23C916.6040802@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20100625173544.GE2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 05:07:34PM -0400, marthter wrote: > Yes, that's what I meant. I wasn't expecting the DDC to work when using > the VGA-to-5-BNC cable, but I was expecting it to work (per the > monitor's manual) when using the VGA-to-VGA cable, yet it didn't. Some monitors don't do it. Some cables are broken. Some video cards are broken. Some video card drivers are broken. > Yes I was pleasantly surprised to find it in the list one time many > incarnations ago and have often had to jump through hoops to get it back > (this old monitor has outlasted many a box). Though on the other hand > it isn't really that odd, as it _is_ a 4:3 resolution (640x480 tripled > in each direction) and for HD viewing (1920x1080) it displays more or > less natively, i.e. doesn't require scaling, just the black bars. > > The one I never understood was 1280x1024 (5:4 aspect when almost > everything was 4:3 - until the more recent 16:9 trend of course). 1280x1024 was simply a huge mistake. > Yes, working great and the TV (FIFA football of course) playback is > smooth now with the NVidia driver, unlike the open un-accerated driver > (where I initially could get the resolution I wanted but not the > smoothness). > > Although one could argue this is still a bug, as there should be a more > user friendly option for when the monitor is not detected at all. I > guess they went down that road in past releases of letting you choose > from every brand and model under the sun and are moving to autodetection > more now. Shrug. Well if autodetect works for 99.9% of users, then that is probably the right way to go. Allowing a manual override that is hardly ever tested by anyone anymore is just asking for more bugs I suspect. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 17:42:02 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:42:02 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> On 06/25/2010 10:58 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: > Byron's CISSP has been suspended according to this site: > > http://www.belch.com/blog/2010/06/24/byron-sonne-g20-bomber-was-a-cissp/ That URL is outrageous! What exactly has Byron Sonne bombed? That Belcher accuses someone of "terroristic" activities on the basis of charges that in the Canadian context have the same credibility as the charge of "hooliganism" in the former USSR is just beyond the pale. Shame on him! "Possession of an explosive device" and "possession of a weapon for a dangerous purpose" are catch-alls that Canadian police have used before to harass, intimidate, and jail dissenters and seize their property. (See: .) The Star article was the typical, despicable sensational crap that passes for journalism at that paper. Of what relevance is it that he is married or living common law, how much his home is worth (*), how his wife's father is well-to-do? (*) Million dollar homes aren't exactly uncommon in Toronto any more. I suspect the reference to the value of the home has to do with the Crown itching to seize it under the "proceeds of crime" legislation so that they can deprive the accused of any assets the accused may be able to use as collateral in funding a defence. It seems that if you get noticed by the police in this country, they will find a way to charge you and make your life quite miserable. Many of us probably have materials in our homes that can be considered an "explosive device". I have gasoline, kerosene, fertilizer, and lots of nails in my garage. I have all sorts of electronic components that I know how to use to build simple and accurate timers but you don't even need to get that sophisticated to make a timing device. A test tube (the little plastic tubes at the end of cut flowers will do), aluminum foil, some wire, water, and dried beans or chick peas will work quite well as a simple but not terribly accurate timing device. How do I know this? I read about it in more than one book about resistance groups operating in WWII. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I see this as much ado about nothing and the typical heavy-handed approach by the security establishment towards anything to do with this lousy summit. I wouldn't be surprised if these charges are dropped or stayed after the G20 summit. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 18:04:43 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 14:04:43 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: <4C24EA6A.10800-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:42 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 06/25/2010 10:58 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: >> >> Byron's CISSP has been suspended according to this site: >> >> http://www.belch.com/blog/2010/06/24/byron-sonne-g20-bomber-was-a-cissp/ > > That URL is outrageous! What exactly has Byron Sonne bombed? That Belcher > accuses someone of "terroristic" activities on the basis of charges that in > the Canadian context have the same credibility as the charge of > "hooliganism" in the former USSR is just beyond the pale. Shame on him! > "Possession of an explosive device" and "possession of a weapon for a > dangerous purpose" are catch-alls that Canadian police have used before to > harass, intimidate, and jail dissenters and seize their property. (See: > .) > > The Star article was the typical, despicable sensational crap that passes > for journalism at that paper. Of what relevance is it that he is married or > living common law, how much his home is worth (*), how his wife's father is > well-to-do? > > (*) Million dollar homes aren't exactly uncommon in Toronto any more. I > suspect the reference to the value of the home has to do with the Crown > itching to seize it under the "proceeds of crime" legislation so that they > can deprive the accused of any assets the accused may be able to use as > collateral in funding a defence. > > It seems that if you get noticed by the police in this country, they will > find a way to charge you and make your life quite miserable. Many of us > probably have materials in our homes that can be considered an "explosive > device". I have gasoline, kerosene, fertilizer, and lots of nails in my > garage. I have all sorts of electronic components that I know how to use to > build simple and accurate timers but you don't even need to get that > sophisticated to make a timing device. A test tube (the little plastic tubes > at the end of cut flowers will do), aluminum foil, some wire, water, and > dried beans or chick peas will work quite well as a simple but not terribly > accurate timing device. How do I know this? I read about it in more than one > book about resistance groups operating in WWII. > > Until I see evidence to the contrary, I see this as much ado about nothing > and the typical heavy-handed approach by the security establishment towards > anything to do with this lousy summit. I wouldn't be surprised if these > charges are dropped or stayed after the G20 summit. I hope you're right about the charges being dropped, but it's doubtful. The police are pretty clearly making an 'example' of Byron, as he has made it very clear that he intended to do whatever he could to tip the technological balance in favour of those protesting against power and privilege. I can tell you from many personal experiences that the police to not respond well to anyone that shows the slightest resistance to their total authority. It's a pretty scary sight to behold, in fact. It's like watching a mad dog, complete with growling and foam at the mouth. Look at the way the head of the police union reacted to the mere suggestion by a union official that the police might employ provocateurs as a dirty trick against protesters: hysterical rage. Byron just managed to piss off a lot more than one or two cops. He's attempted, publicly, to give them all a collective poke in the eye, and they are going to do everything they can to teach him a lesson. No politician will dare criticize the police, so they know they have a pretty much free hand to do whatever they like. With absolutely no civilian oversight of the police, it's pretty clear what kind of state we live in, and Byron may be in for quite a ride. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 19:00:16 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:00:16 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On 25 June 2010 14:04, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:42 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY > wrote: >> On 06/25/2010 10:58 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: >>> >>> Byron's CISSP has been suspended according to this site: >>> >>> http://www.belch.com/blog/2010/06/24/byron-sonne-g20-bomber-was-a-cissp/ >> >> That URL is outrageous! What exactly has Byron Sonne bombed? That Belcher >> accuses someone of "terroristic" activities on the basis of charges that in >> the Canadian context have the same credibility as the charge of >> "hooliganism" in the former USSR is just beyond the pale. Shame on him! >> "Possession of an explosive device" and "possession of a weapon for a >> dangerous purpose" are catch-alls that Canadian police have used before to >> harass, intimidate, and jail dissenters and seize their property. (See: >> .) >> >> The Star article was the typical, despicable sensational crap that passes >> for journalism at that paper. Of what relevance is it that he is married or >> living common law, how much his home is worth (*), how his wife's father is >> well-to-do? >> >> (*) Million dollar homes aren't exactly uncommon in Toronto any more. I >> suspect the reference to the value of the home has to do with the Crown >> itching to seize it under the "proceeds of crime" legislation so that they >> can deprive the accused of any assets the accused may be able to use as >> collateral in funding a defence. >> >> It seems that if you get noticed by the police in this country, they will >> find a way to charge you and make your life quite miserable. Many of us >> probably have materials in our homes that can be considered an "explosive >> device". I have gasoline, kerosene, fertilizer, and lots of nails in my >> garage. I have all sorts of electronic components that I know how to use to >> build simple and accurate timers but you don't even need to get that >> sophisticated to make a timing device. A test tube (the little plastic tubes >> at the end of cut flowers will do), aluminum foil, some wire, water, and >> dried beans or chick peas will work quite well as a simple but not terribly >> accurate timing device. How do I know this? I read about it in more than one >> book about resistance groups operating in WWII. >> >> Until I see evidence to the contrary, I see this as much ado about nothing >> and the typical heavy-handed approach by the security establishment towards >> anything to do with this lousy summit. I wouldn't be surprised if these >> charges are dropped or stayed after the G20 summit. > > I hope you're right about the charges being dropped, but it's > doubtful. The police are pretty clearly making an 'example' of Byron, > as he has made it very clear that he intended to do whatever he could > to tip the technological balance in favour of those protesting against > power and privilege. > > I can tell you from many personal experiences that the police to not > respond well to anyone that shows the slightest resistance to their > total authority. It's a pretty scary sight to behold, in fact. It's > like watching a mad dog, complete with growling and foam at the mouth. > Look at the way the head of the police union reacted to the mere > suggestion by a union official that the police might employ > provocateurs as a dirty trick against protesters: hysterical rage. > > Byron just managed to piss off a lot more than one or two cops. He's > attempted, publicly, to give them all a collective poke in the eye, > and they are going to do everything they can to teach him a lesson. No > politician will dare criticize the police, so they know they have a > pretty much free hand to do whatever they like. With absolutely no > civilian oversight of the police, it's pretty clear what kind of state > we live in, and Byron may be in for quite a ride. While I'm inclined to believe that Byron Sonne wasn't going to do anything horrible, he made it clear in advance that he intended to poke, prod and test to see if he could get a reaction. Guess what? He got a reaction. And now the papers are doing what they do - trying to sell more of their own fine product by creating exaggerations based on slight facts, and some of you are acting surprised and/or enraged. I agree that the government has spent obscene amounts of money. I agree that the government has violated our rights in horrible ways during the G20/G8. None of this makes Sonne's form of rebellion a good idea. When you take a pointy stick and start prodding a pit bull with it, saying "I'm just testing" isn't going to change the outcome. As one of the commenters on Slashdot put it, "It sure seems like the goal all along was to get caught. The question was to determine the amount of suspicious actions he could take prior to being caught." The outcome was a given (unless the Canadian police showed even greater incompetence than expected), now let's just hope that they give him a slap on the wrist and send him on his way after the 27th. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 19:18:16 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:18:16 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4C2500F8.1050006@alteeve.com> On 10-06-25 03:00 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > While I'm inclined to believe that Byron Sonne wasn't going to do > anything horrible, he made it clear in advance that he intended to > poke, prod and test to see if he could get a reaction. Guess what? > He got a reaction. > > And now the papers are doing what they do - trying to sell more of > their own fine product by creating exaggerations based on slight > facts, and some of you are acting surprised and/or enraged. I agree > that the government has spent obscene amounts of money. I agree that > the government has violated our rights in horrible ways during the > G20/G8. None of this makes Sonne's form of rebellion a good idea. > > When you take a pointy stick and start prodding a pit bull with it, > saying "I'm just testing" isn't going to change the outcome. As one > of the commenters on Slashdot put it, "It sure seems like the goal all > along was to get caught. The question was to determine the amount of > suspicious actions he could take prior to being caught." The outcome > was a given (unless the Canadian police showed even greater > incompetence than expected), now let's just hope that they give him a > slap on the wrist and send him on his way after the 27th. The government has repeatedly and increasingly "temporarily suspended" our rights as guaranteed under the charter. Look at Vancouver during the olymics, and now look at Toronto. If I walk within 5m of the fence, something I *must* do to get home via Union, then I can be stopped and searched without cause. Our freedoms are being eroded. Byron had more guts than any of us. Yes, he poked the bear with a stick, but what was the alternative? Sit at home like good little passive Canadians and tell each other "it's okay, it's just for a little while.". Nothing Byron did was illegal. They had to find an obscure law designed to protect lawyers and judges from the mafia to even get a warrant. Now the police are trying "to make an example out of him" to send a clear message; "Do as we say. Don't resists.". Get your papers out, citizen. Anyone who apologizes for the government's erosion of our freedoms should be ashamed of themselves. He who gives up liberty for the sake of freedom deserves neither. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 19:24:05 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:24:05 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > On 25 June 2010 14:04, Thomas Milne wrote: >> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:42 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY >> wrote: >>> On 06/25/2010 10:58 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: >>>> >>>> Byron's CISSP has been suspended according to this site: >>>> >>>> http://www.belch.com/blog/2010/06/24/byron-sonne-g20-bomber-was-a-cissp/ >>> >>> That URL is outrageous! What exactly has Byron Sonne bombed? That Belcher >>> accuses someone of "terroristic" activities on the basis of charges that in >>> the Canadian context have the same credibility as the charge of >>> "hooliganism" in the former USSR is just beyond the pale. Shame on him! >>> "Possession of an explosive device" and "possession of a weapon for a >>> dangerous purpose" are catch-alls that Canadian police have used before to >>> harass, intimidate, and jail dissenters and seize their property. (See: >>> .) >>> >>> The Star article was the typical, despicable sensational crap that passes >>> for journalism at that paper. Of what relevance is it that he is married or >>> living common law, how much his home is worth (*), how his wife's father is >>> well-to-do? >>> >>> (*) Million dollar homes aren't exactly uncommon in Toronto any more. I >>> suspect the reference to the value of the home has to do with the Crown >>> itching to seize it under the "proceeds of crime" legislation so that they >>> can deprive the accused of any assets the accused may be able to use as >>> collateral in funding a defence. >>> >>> It seems that if you get noticed by the police in this country, they will >>> find a way to charge you and make your life quite miserable. Many of us >>> probably have materials in our homes that can be considered an "explosive >>> device". I have gasoline, kerosene, fertilizer, and lots of nails in my >>> garage. I have all sorts of electronic components that I know how to use to >>> build simple and accurate timers but you don't even need to get that >>> sophisticated to make a timing device. A test tube (the little plastic tubes >>> at the end of cut flowers will do), aluminum foil, some wire, water, and >>> dried beans or chick peas will work quite well as a simple but not terribly >>> accurate timing device. How do I know this? I read about it in more than one >>> book about resistance groups operating in WWII. >>> >>> Until I see evidence to the contrary, I see this as much ado about nothing >>> and the typical heavy-handed approach by the security establishment towards >>> anything to do with this lousy summit. I wouldn't be surprised if these >>> charges are dropped or stayed after the G20 summit. >> >> I hope you're right about the charges being dropped, but it's >> doubtful. The police are pretty clearly making an 'example' of Byron, >> as he has made it very clear that he intended to do whatever he could >> to tip the technological balance in favour of those protesting against >> power and privilege. >> >> I can tell you from many personal experiences that the police to not >> respond well to anyone that shows the slightest resistance to their >> total authority. It's a pretty scary sight to behold, in fact. It's >> like watching a mad dog, complete with growling and foam at the mouth. >> Look at the way the head of the police union reacted to the mere >> suggestion by a union official that the police might employ >> provocateurs as a dirty trick against protesters: hysterical rage. >> >> Byron just managed to piss off a lot more than one or two cops. He's >> attempted, publicly, to give them all a collective poke in the eye, >> and they are going to do everything they can to teach him a lesson. No >> politician will dare criticize the police, so they know they have a >> pretty much free hand to do whatever they like. With absolutely no >> civilian oversight of the police, it's pretty clear what kind of state >> we live in, and Byron may be in for quite a ride. > > While I'm inclined to believe that Byron Sonne wasn't going to do > anything horrible, he made it clear in advance that he intended to > poke, prod and test to see if he could get a reaction. ?Guess what? > He got a reaction. > > And now the papers are doing what they do - trying to sell more of > their own fine product by creating exaggerations based on slight > facts, and some of you are acting surprised and/or enraged. ?I agree > that the government has spent obscene amounts of money. I agree that > the government has violated our rights in horrible ways during the > G20/G8. ?None of this makes Sonne's form of rebellion a good idea. > > When you take a pointy stick and start prodding a pit bull with it, > saying "I'm just testing" isn't going to change the outcome. ?As one > of the commenters on Slashdot put it, "It sure seems like the goal all > along was to get caught. The question was to determine the amount of > suspicious actions he could take prior to being caught." ?The outcome > was a given (unless the Canadian police showed even greater > incompetence than expected), now let's just hope that they give him a > slap on the wrist and send him on his way after the 27th. > I don't think I'm 'enraged' that he is being prosecuted, nor am I surprised. I can't speak for anyone else, but the point is that the police are not supposed to act like pit bulls. To me it's pretty clear that the police, as they usually do, are taking this personally. They're made the choice to arrest Byron's wife, which is common in cases where the police wish to intimidate their target, in this case Byron, into pleading guilty and not making an issue out of the ridiculous charges, as I hope he does. For some reason, a lot of people seem to have accepted the canard that we are under constant threat of terrorist violence, and that this should allow the police to have absolute and unfettered power. It's almost become 'uncool' to even speak out against the police, as you're immediately branded as some kind of nutjob to even think ill of them. That's what is surprising to me, and yes a bit alarming. I'm thankful there are people like Byron who know they're going to take a hit and forge ahead anyway. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 19:41:22 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:41:22 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4C250662.5020504@dinamis.com> On 06/25/2010 03:00 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > While I'm inclined to believe that Byron Sonne wasn't going to do > anything horrible, he made it clear in advance that he intended to > poke, prod and test to see if he could get a reaction. Guess what? > He got a reaction. > > And now the papers are doing what they do - trying to sell more of > their own fine product by creating exaggerations based on slight > facts, and some of you are acting surprised and/or enraged. I agree > that the government has spent obscene amounts of money. I agree that > the government has violated our rights in horrible ways during the > G20/G8. None of this makes Sonne's form of rebellion a good idea. What exactly was his "form of rebellion"? The Star article was pretty short on facts. As far as I know, it's not illegal to listen to police band radio nor is it illegal to tweet what you heard on that radio. That hardly seems like "rebellion" to me. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 19:46:00 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:46:00 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: <4C2500F8.1050006-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> <4C2500F8.1050006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4C250778.6050804@dinamis.com> On 06/25/2010 03:18 PM, Digimer wrote: > The government has repeatedly and increasingly "temporarily suspended" > our rights as guaranteed under the charter. Look at Vancouver during the > olymics, and now look at Toronto. If I walk within 5m of the fence, > something I *must* do to get home via Union, then I can be stopped and > searched without cause. If you're not guilty of anything, you don't have any reason to be worried, Comrade. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 19:53:55 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> Message-ID: | From: Thomas Milne | I don't think I'm 'enraged' that he is being prosecuted, nor am I | surprised. I can't speak for anyone else, but the point is that the | police are not supposed to act like pit bulls. | | To me it's pretty clear that the police, as they usually do, are | taking this personally. They're made the choice to arrest Byron's | wife, which is common in cases where the police wish to intimidate | their target, in this case Byron, into pleading guilty and not making | an issue out of the ridiculous charges, as I hope he does. | | For some reason, a lot of people seem to have accepted the canard that | we are under constant threat of terrorist violence, and that this | should allow the police to have absolute and unfettered power. It's | almost become 'uncool' to even speak out against the police, as you're | immediately branded as some kind of nutjob to even think ill of them. | | That's what is surprising to me, and yes a bit alarming. | | I'm thankful there are people like Byron who know they're going to | take a hit and forge ahead anyway. I mostly agree with what you and most others in this list have said. We don't know enough to be sure of what is going on. Maybe we are jumping to conclusions. The sad thing is that most of what I know about police is from US TV dramas. That is quite polarizing and makes me distrust the police (and all sorts of bad guys too). But drama and reality are dramatically different. I do sort-of know some "factual" things about police from news stories. In general, they put the police in a bad light (otherwise they wouldn't be news). Systemically, there is at least one problem. Police are taught that they must dominate any situation to keep it under control. The tools they have to dominate make me quite uncomfortable and are not really consistent with a democratic society. Siting this conference in downtown Toronto sure looks like a big mistake. Rough guess: a half-billion dollar mistake. But I have to admit a bias: I don't give the Harper government too much benefit of the doubt. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 19:54:08 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:54:08 -0400 Subject: Questions re swap and hibernate interaction on 8 gig machine In-Reply-To: References: <20100621220658.GB8164@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100625195408.GF2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:18:34AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > I notice a number of people have mentioned running with no swap. While > that is certainly possible I still argue in favour of having some swap, > even if swappiness is set to 0. > > My arguments are set out here: > > http://www.practicalsysadmin.com/wiki/index.php/Swap > > IIRC the system wouldn't swap unless it had _at least_ 2x ram which meant > most systems stopped swapping entirely :) That bug was fixed *fast*. > > I'm not a fan of using tmpfs for /tmp. I think it is a solution looking > for a problem. Essentially I argue that most apps write so little to > /tmp that the use of a special case isn't warranted. > > Other uses of tmpfs may make a lot of sense though. > > The other main reason for swap is the one the OP asked about - > hibernation. A swap partition is needed - you can't swap to a swap file > under Linux[1]. In principal you'd need as much swap as ram to guarantee > a successful hibernation but it could work with less. If there aren't > sufficient resources the hibernation should fail gracefully. Personally > I use sleep a lot and rarely hibernate. > > [1] Last time I checked. Theoretically it is possible. I'd love to hear > this had been fixed but I haven't seen any reports. Linux has supported swapfiles for years. They work fine. Now I don't think hibernation works with that, although I am not sure. Swap itself works great on swapfiles and doesn't even have any significant performance difference compared to a swap partition, assuming you don't make a sparse file when creating the swap file (so don't do that). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 20:07:36 2010 From: jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:07:36 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: <4C250662.5020504-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> <4C250662.5020504@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4C250C88.7000609@gmail.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > As far as I know, it's not illegal to listen to police band radio nor > is it illegal to tweet what you heard on that radio. Actually, it *IS* illegal to divulge what you hear on that radio, even though it is legal to listen. The only exceptions would be broadcast and amateur radio. That been the law for many decades. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 20:08:37 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:08:37 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <8890dfe7fc77279d7b5dcda7230b772a.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Years ago, my wife, daughter and I were touring a zoo in Salvadore, Brazil. In one of the displays an alligator was sleeping in the sun. A zookeeper decided that he would make it a bit more exciting for us and prodded the alligator with his broom. The alligator continued to appear to sleep and then suddenly lunged at the zookeeper. The guy dived over a fence in front of us, narrowly missing having his leg being removed. Somehow, this hacklab nerd incident reminds me of that event. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 20:14:38 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:14:38 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: <4C2500F8.1050006-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> <4C2500F8.1050006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 10-06-25 03:00 PM, Giles Orr wrote: >> >> While I'm inclined to believe that Byron Sonne wasn't going to do >> anything horrible, he made it clear in advance that he intended to >> poke, prod and test to see if he could get a reaction. ?Guess what? >> He got a reaction. >> >> And now the papers are doing what they do - trying to sell more of >> their own fine product by creating exaggerations based on slight >> facts, and some of you are acting surprised and/or enraged. ?I agree >> that the government has spent obscene amounts of money. I agree that >> the government has violated our rights in horrible ways during the >> G20/G8. ?None of this makes Sonne's form of rebellion a good idea. >> >> When you take a pointy stick and start prodding a pit bull with it, >> saying "I'm just testing" isn't going to change the outcome. ?As one >> of the commenters on Slashdot put it, "It sure seems like the goal all >> along was to get caught. The question was to determine the amount of >> suspicious actions he could take prior to being caught." ?The outcome >> was a given (unless the Canadian police showed even greater >> incompetence than expected), now let's just hope that they give him a >> slap on the wrist and send him on his way after the 27th. > > The government has repeatedly and increasingly "temporarily suspended" our > rights as guaranteed under the charter. Look at Vancouver during the > olymics, and now look at Toronto. If I walk within 5m of the fence, > something I *must* do to get home via Union, then I can be stopped and > searched without cause. > > Our freedoms are being eroded. Byron had more guts than any of us. Yes, he > poked the bear with a stick, but what was the alternative? Sit at home like > good little passive Canadians and tell each other "it's okay, it's just for > a little while.". > > Nothing Byron did was illegal. They had to find an obscure law designed to > protect lawyers and judges from the mafia to even get a warrant. I saw some reports mention that, but I can't find anything specific about it. Have you seen anything that describes who he is alleged to have 'intimidated'? > Now the police are trying "to make an example out of him" to send a clear message; > "Do as we say. Don't resists.". Get your papers out, citizen. > > Anyone who apologizes for the government's erosion of our freedoms should be > ashamed of themselves. > > He who gives up liberty for the sake of freedom deserves neither. > Damn right. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 20:25:10 2010 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> Message-ID: I have had a brief exposure to security issues while taking my Masters at Queens University, having a guest lecturer who had high security clearance and worked for the government. Although I don't always agree with their tactics, they are tasked with taking all threats as worst-case scenarios. They do not operate in the same world as most Canadians do. If Clifford believes they wouldn't arrest people without proof, I think he's living in the movies. These guys will arrest as many people as required to ensure the safety of people, and will be happy to write out apologies after they release you from jail when the conference is over. Keep in mind that this list is publically accessible and that this list must be monitored right now. I would suggest you defer this thread until things quiet down and we have more information. Ken B. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 25 Jun 2010, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Thomas Milne > > | I don't think I'm 'enraged' that he is being prosecuted, nor am I > | surprised. I can't speak for anyone else, but the point is that the > | police are not supposed to act like pit bulls. > | > | To me it's pretty clear that the police, as they usually do, are > | taking this personally. They're made the choice to arrest Byron's > | wife, which is common in cases where the police wish to intimidate > | their target, in this case Byron, into pleading guilty and not making > | an issue out of the ridiculous charges, as I hope he does. > | > | For some reason, a lot of people seem to have accepted the canard that > | we are under constant threat of terrorist violence, and that this > | should allow the police to have absolute and unfettered power. It's > | almost become 'uncool' to even speak out against the police, as you're > | immediately branded as some kind of nutjob to even think ill of them. > | > | That's what is surprising to me, and yes a bit alarming. > | > | I'm thankful there are people like Byron who know they're going to > | take a hit and forge ahead anyway. > > I mostly agree with what you and most others in this list have said. > > We don't know enough to be sure of what is going on. Maybe we are > jumping to conclusions. > > The sad thing is that most of what I know about police is from US TV > dramas. That is quite polarizing and makes me distrust the police > (and all sorts of bad guys too). But drama and reality are > dramatically different. > > I do sort-of know some "factual" things about police from news > stories. In general, they put the police in a bad light (otherwise > they wouldn't be news). > > Systemically, there is at least one problem. Police are taught that > they must dominate any situation to keep it under control. The tools > they have to dominate make me quite uncomfortable and are not really > consistent with a democratic society. > > Siting this conference in downtown Toronto sure looks like a big > mistake. Rough guess: a half-billion dollar mistake. > > But I have to admit a bias: I don't give the Harper government too > much benefit of the doubt. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 20:29:43 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:29:43 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4C2511B7.20705@alteeve.com> On 10-06-25 04:25 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: > Keep in mind that this list is publically accessible and that this list > must be monitored right now. I would suggest you defer this thread until > things quiet down and we have more information. > > Ken B. People should never, ever, be afraid to speak their mind. No one here is or has advocated, provoked or otherwise supported an illegal action. Anyone who did so should and would be removed from this list. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 20:31:36 2010 From: jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:31:36 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: <4C2511B7.20705-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> <4C2511B7.20705@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4C251228.6040104@gmail.com> Digimer wrote: > On 10-06-25 04:25 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: >> Keep in mind that this list is publically accessible and that this list >> must be monitored right now. I would suggest you defer this thread until >> things quiet down and we have more information. >> >> Ken B. > > People should never, ever, be afraid to speak their mind. No one here > is or has advocated, provoked or otherwise supported an illegal > action. Anyone who did so should and would be removed from this list. > > > Perhaps someone should mention G20, Obama and a few other choice words in the subject and then encrypt the rest of the message. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 21:44:26 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 17:44:26 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:53 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > But I have to admit a bias: I don't give the Harper government too > much benefit of the doubt. Of course, the more massive issue is the secret regulations passed by the Ontario Liberals. As much as Torontonians seem to like to imagine that Harper's a pinch-nez away from a Godwin argument, the entire political spectrum is quite clearly prepared to engage in the "Orwellian transform" as we assortedly witness: - the special "G20 police powers" given out by Liberals - England turned into a surveillance state *not* under "evil Thatcher," but rather Labour. Fascism is traditionally imagined as a "right wing" thing, but, after all, the most criticized form ever was named "National SOCIALISM," not "National Capitalism," and it's eminently evident that pretty well any party that is sufficiently "central" to represent their nation is pretty capable of doubtful behaviour like this. McGuinty has a lot to answer for :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 22:38:55 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:38:55 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:53 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> But I have to admit a bias: I don't give the Harper government too >> much benefit of the doubt. > > Of course, the more massive issue is the secret regulations passed by > the Ontario Liberals. Those regulations were passed back in 1990, they're called the Public Works Protection Act. McGuinty's government extended the laws to cover the 5 meters around the security fences, at the request of the Toronto Police. It would have been political suicide for him to refuse the police. You just don't do that. Doesn't mean he's not a fascist, but Harper is the tyrant. One thing I have not been able to clarify his who exactly introduced the PWPA. 1990 was the year the NDP won in Ontario, but they won in September (when I was drinking my face off in a campus pub), so it could have been Peterson's Liberals. > As much as Torontonians seem to like to imagine > that Harper's a pinch-nez away from a Godwin argument, the entire > political spectrum is quite clearly prepared to engage in the > "Orwellian transform" as we assortedly witness: > ?- the special "G20 police powers" given out by Liberals > ?- England turned into a surveillance state *not* under "evil > Thatcher," but rather Labour. Keep in mind that Labour got elected by renouncing socialism. > Fascism is traditionally imagined as a "right wing" thing, but, after > all, the most criticized form ever was named "National SOCIALISM," not > "National Capitalism," and it's eminently evident that pretty well any > party that is sufficiently "central" to represent their nation is > pretty capable of doubtful behaviour like this. ?McGuinty has a lot to > answer for :-). Well, no, National Socialism has never had anything whatever to do with Socialism. A lot of people are misled by that. Fascism is very specifically, as Mussolini defined it, a 'merger between government and corporate power'. The 'Socialism' of National Socialism has more to do with the mythology of a pure society and all that bunk, not the economics of wealth redistribution that is the central tenet of all Socialist parties. Also, Socialism generally rejects Nationalism. So, you might be right about McGuinty acting like a fascist, but he is far away from being anything like a Socialist. I agree with you in principle, that lots of people call themselves one thing and do another. I certainly don't trust McGuinty any more than I do Harper or Ignatieff. Anyone of any political stripe is capable of anything when power and money are involved. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 22:41:33 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:41:33 -0400 Subject: Questions re swap and hibernate interaction on 8 gig machine In-Reply-To: References: <20100621220658.GB8164@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100625224133.GA14657@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 01:21:05PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote > Exactly. When I tried to do it, hibernating to a swap file failed. I'm > sure I did find documentation on that at some point. I keep an eye out to > see if the limitation has been fixed. On my new system running kernel linux-2.6.32-gentoo-r7 make menuconfig Power management and ACPI options ---> [*] Hibernation (aka 'suspend to disk') (/dev/sda6) Default resume partition There is no option to specify a file instead. BTW, my layout is... # fdisk -l Disk /dev/sda: 1000.2 GB, 1000204886016 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 121601 cylinders Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes Disk identifier: 0x9ba53901 Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 1 121601 976760001 5 Extended /dev/sda5 1 33 265009+ 83 Linux /dev/sda6 34 1209 9446188+ 82 Linux swap / Solaris /dev/sda7 1210 121601 967048708+ 83 Linux # df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/sda5 256634 32281 211103 14% / udev 10240 116 10124 2% /dev /dev/sda7 967019188 2143428 964875760 1% /home shm 3930960 0 3930960 0% /dev/shm -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 23:29:02 2010 From: phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 19:29:02 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <7D5AD510-F54C-4443-89DA-658F5D225E72@acm.org> On 2010-06-25, at 6:38 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Those regulations were passed back in 1990, they're called the Public > Works Protection Act. And this was never their intent. > It would have been political suicide for him to refuse the > police. I think the next election would be a good time to make sure he understands that it was political suicide to agree with them. I'm most irate that this was done -- like the invocation of the War Measures Act -- by a government that dares to label itself "Liberal". Liberal isn't supposed to mean siding with cops to suspend civil liberties.-- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 23:45:30 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 19:45:30 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: <7D5AD510-F54C-4443-89DA-658F5D225E72-HInyCGIudOg@public.gmane.org> References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> <7D5AD510-F54C-4443-89DA-658F5D225E72@acm.org> Message-ID: <4C253F9A.9090002@alteeve.com> On 10-06-25 07:29 PM, Phillip Mills wrote: > On 2010-06-25, at 6:38 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > >> Those regulations were passed back in 1990, they're called the Public >> Works Protection Act. > > And this was never their intent. > >> It would have been political suicide for him to refuse the >> police. > > I think the next election would be a good time to make sure he understands that it was political suicide to agree with them. I'm most irate that this was done -- like the invocation of the War Measures Act -- by a government that dares to label itself "Liberal". Liberal isn't supposed to mean siding with cops to suspend civil liberties.-- As a life long liberal, I hate to have to agree with you. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 25 23:54:02 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 19:54:02 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: <7D5AD510-F54C-4443-89DA-658F5D225E72-HInyCGIudOg@public.gmane.org> References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> <7D5AD510-F54C-4443-89DA-658F5D225E72@acm.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Phillip Mills wrote: > On 2010-06-25, at 6:38 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > >> Those regulations were passed back in 1990, they're called the Public >> Works Protection Act. > > And this was never their intent. Oh, of course, they never _intend_ to use them this way... ;) >> It would have been political suicide for him to refuse the >> police. > > I think the next election would be a good time to make sure he understands that it was political suicide to agree with them. >?I'm most irate that this was done -- like the invocation of the War Measures Act -- by a government that dares to label itself > "Liberal". ?Liberal isn't supposed to mean siding with cops to suspend civil liberties. I don't know, Trudeau was a Liberal, and that was 34 years ago now. When have the Liberals _not_ sided with the cops? I guess to me the point is we shouldn't have to unelect a government every time they mess up and allow the police to step all over our civil liberties. People need to start _resisting_ the police directly, and we need a police force that is 100% run by civilians. The police cannot be allowed to govern themselves any longer, otherwise they will continue to 'server and protect' only their cronies. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 26 00:35:08 2010 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: <4C2511B7.20705-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> <4C2511B7.20705@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jun 2010, Digimer wrote: > On 10-06-25 04:25 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: >> Keep in mind that this list is publically accessible and that this list >> must be monitored right now. I would suggest you defer this thread until >> things quiet down and we have more information. >> >> Ken B. > > People should never, ever, be afraid to speak their mind. No one here is or > has advocated, provoked or otherwise supported an illegal action. Anyone who > did so should and would be removed from this list. > > I did not say you cannot speak about it. Speak about it later. Ken B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 26 00:43:18 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:43:18 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> <4C2511B7.20705@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4C254D26.4080609@alteeve.com> On 10-06-25 08:35 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Jun 2010, Digimer wrote: > >> On 10-06-25 04:25 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: >>> Keep in mind that this list is publically accessible and that this list >>> must be monitored right now. I would suggest you defer this thread until >>> things quiet down and we have more information. >>> >>> Ken B. >> >> People should never, ever, be afraid to speak their mind. No one here >> is or has advocated, provoked or otherwise supported an illegal >> action. Anyone who did so should and would be removed from this list. >> >> > > I did not say you cannot speak about it. Speak about it later. > > Ken B. No difference. In fact, that's part of my point. "Temporary" erosion of rights is never acceptable because, one day, "temporary" doesn't end. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 26 02:16:35 2010 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 22:16:35 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: <4C254D26.4080609-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> <4C2511B7.20705@alteeve.com> <4C254D26.4080609@alteeve.com> Message-ID: I would like to add my voice of dissent to this farce we call democracy in Canada. How many governments in history have invoked security and public safety to squash other voices and individual liberty. I don't know Byron but my heart goes out to him in what has become a witch hunt for "terrorists". Randy Jonasz On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 10-06-25 08:35 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: > >> >> On Fri, 25 Jun 2010, Digimer wrote: >> >> On 10-06-25 04:25 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: >>> >>>> Keep in mind that this list is publically accessible and that this list >>>> must be monitored right now. I would suggest you defer this thread until >>>> things quiet down and we have more information. >>>> >>>> Ken B. >>>> >>> >>> People should never, ever, be afraid to speak their mind. No one here >>> is or has advocated, provoked or otherwise supported an illegal >>> action. Anyone who did so should and would be removed from this list. >>> >>> >>> >> >> I did not say you cannot speak about it. Speak about it later. >> >> Ken B. >> > > No difference. > > In fact, that's part of my point. "Temporary" erosion of rights is never > acceptable because, one day, "temporary" doesn't end. > > > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 26 03:30:09 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 23:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Questions re swap and hibernate interaction on 8 gig machine In-Reply-To: <20100625195408.GF2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100621220658.GB8164@waltdnes.org> <20100625195408.GF2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jun 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Linux has supported swapfiles for years. They work fine. Now I don't > think hibernation works with that, although I am not sure. > > Swap itself works great on swapfiles and doesn't even have any significant > performance difference compared to a swap partition, assuming you don't > make a sparse file when creating the swap file (so don't do that). Len, go back and read my emails. That's what I said :) Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 26 04:06:28 2010 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 00:06:28 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C254D26.4080609@alteeve.com> Message-ID: One of the reasons why our so-called democracy is such a farce is that over the past fifty years we have forgotten, or never had our noses rubbed into the fact that along with rights come responsibilities. Ignore your responsibilities, and your rights vanish as with the morning dew. Ever since the farce that was the Seattle "protests", we've seen an escalating police response: no surprise, as they're charged with "keeping the peace", and ever since Seattle, the protests at these multinational summits have proven anything but. One of our most important responsibilities is to behave in a measured manner: Keep your powder dry for the real difficulties. Burn the place down when people are arrested for the crime of advocating a change in government policy, not because you object that someone decided to build a fast-food restaurant with a silly-arsed clown as a mascot. It's there because people like to dine there for some reason, and destroying the restaurant is an attack not on the corporate owners, but on the diners. Protesting poverty by trashing, looting and burning the very stores where the working poor are struggling to earn a living is at best counterproductive, yet many of the G-8 and G-20 protesters seem to think this is appropriate. How this helps the poor they claim to support escapes me completely. Another responsibility is to know what you're talking about. One young lady marching at the G-8 this morning was quoted in a radio report claiming that "water isn't a commodity!" Well, no, ordinary water is not. That's because ordinary water is and has been for millions of years salty sometimes to the point of brackishness, or stagnant, or both - at any rate, not drinkable by anybody without a death wish. Potable water IS a commodity. It is expensive to obtain, expensive to bring from the location where it's found to the location where it's needed, and expensive to treat it as necessary if it isn't yet 100% safe to drink. Over the centuries wars have been fought over this precious resource, and I have no doubt more will occur. And this girl wants to make it a human right that everyone can have free, potable water just as she does. Ask her how much her city pays for water main repair, water treatment and water storage. I think she'll find the dollar value is somewhere north of "free". From OCAP protesting that its clients, largely abusers of drugs or alcohol, can and should be somehow lifted out of poverty without treating the underlying causes, to people who think despite every evidence to the contrary over the centuries that we'll have better economies and wealthier nations by shutting down trade between countries, to those who think the best way to combat racism is to introduce more in reverse form in the sacred name of Political Correctness, they all seem to be under the impression that the appropriate response to the public's lack of appreciation of their Holy Vision is to trash the place. Any loss of rights isn't due to a lack of vigilance on the regular citizens' part, it's due to a policy on the part of these useful idiots out there of deliberately giving our rights away by pretending they can have their childish temper tantrums without having to suffer the consequences. On Friday 25 June 2010 22:16:35 you wrote: > I would like to add my voice of dissent to this farce we call democracy in > Canada. How many governments in history have invoked security and public > safety to squash other voices and individual liberty. I don't know Byron > but my heart goes out to him in what has become a witch hunt for > "terrorists". > > Randy Jonasz > > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Digimer wrote: > > On 10-06-25 08:35 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: > >> On Fri, 25 Jun 2010, Digimer wrote: > >> > >> On 10-06-25 04:25 PM, Ken Burtch wrote: > >>>> Keep in mind that this list is publically accessible and that this > >>>> list must be monitored right now. I would suggest you defer this > >>>> thread until things quiet down and we have more information. > >>>> > >>>> Ken B. > >>> > >>> People should never, ever, be afraid to speak their mind. No one here > >>> is or has advocated, provoked or otherwise supported an illegal > >>> action. Anyone who did so should and would be removed from this list. > >>> > >>> > >> > >> I did not say you cannot speak about it. Speak about it later. > >> > >> Ken B. > > > > No difference. > > > > In fact, that's part of my point. "Temporary" erosion of rights is never > > acceptable because, one day, "temporary" doesn't end. > > > > > > -- > > Digimer > > E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > > AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com > > Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org > > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 26 04:32:55 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 00:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: <4C24EA6A.10800-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C24EA6A.10800@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jun 2010, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 06/25/2010 10:58 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: >> Byron's CISSP has been suspended according to this site: >> >> http://www.belch.com/blog/2010/06/24/byron-sonne-g20-bomber-was-a-cissp/ > > That URL is outrageous! What exactly has Byron Sonne bombed? That Belcher Yeah I agree. I was going to comment on it but decided it spoke for itself. Unfortunately at the time it was the only reference I could find that his CISSP had been suspended. Anyone who reads that url will know how (ISC)2 found out. > Until I see evidence to the contrary, I see this as much ado about nothing > and the typical heavy-handed approach by the security establishment towards > anything to do with this lousy summit. I wouldn't be surprised if these > charges are dropped or stayed after the G20 summit. I hope so. Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 26 05:24:52 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 01:24:52 -0400 Subject: Hacklab nerd caught in G20 security sweep In-Reply-To: References: <4C254D26.4080609@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 12:06 AM, Gary Layng wrote: > Protesting poverty by trashing, looting and burning the very stores where the > working poor are struggling to earn a living is at best counterproductive, yet > many of the G-8 and G-20 protesters seem to think this is appropriate. ?How > this helps the poor they claim to support escapes me completely. There are parts of the world where the "systems" are so desperately broken that outright rebellion does look like a pretty good idea. As much as we have some reasonably serious problems, I don't think any of the G-20 countries are examples of that kind of broken. > Another responsibility is to know what you're talking about. ?One young lady > marching at the G-8 this morning was quoted in a radio report claiming that > "water isn't a commodity!" ?Well, no, ordinary water is not. There's an abstraction error expressed here... Money's a useful abstraction, but once we have ludicrous numbers of layers (e.g. - M0, which is the amount of physical currency in circulation, thru M3, which includes a number of kinds of promissory notes), and people start getting convinced that they magically get things if they have a piece of plastic with some magnetic stripes on it, the understanding of the value of money starts to break down. The growth of "incomprehensible abstraction" problem expresses itself in all kinds of weird places and in weird ways, and allows people to start holding remarkably irrational positions. The "water is not a commodity" that you observed seems pretty reasonable, particularly when, in the wake of security concerns, the "magic" of water purification is literally turning into a state secret. Try to visit the main water purification plant in Toronto. You're not allowed unless you're part of the operational staff. This encourages viewing it as *dangerous* magic, something you're not really supposeded to understand. When meat is something that appears, like magic, by going to the grocery store to find it neatly packed in plastic containers, it shouldn't be too surprising that people get odd ideas about animal husbandry. When the major action takes place at "farm factories" that are rather unlike traditional farms, intuition doesn't work out very well. Horror and romanticism both get expressed when people think about meat. There are pro- and anti- science perspectives out there, and that seems likely to tie in with this too. I have the personal suspicion (not nearly proved) that levels of superstition grow and shrink rather slowly, which would have the odd consequence that any time people quickly drop particular superstitions, you can expect they'll find new ones to replace the old. Throwing away our cell phones and moving back to the farm doesn't seem like a likely solution to the "oops, I dropped my abstraction" problem. Burning Berlusconi in effigy on King Street also seems like a dubious solution. (And I'm not certain whether burning Obama in effigy would express: a) distain for the U.S., b) racial hatred, or c) that you're part of the Tea Party. On the wacky side, there's also... d) Berlusconi wanted a pot of tea, and didn't realize this was an inappropriate preparation method. This scenario is by no means impossible!!!) > Any loss of rights isn't due to a lack of vigilance on > the regular citizens' part, it's due to a policy on the part of these useful > idiots out there of deliberately giving our rights away by pretending they can > have their childish temper tantrums without having to suffer the consequences. We do a whole lot of hiding of consequences. People can get pretty far pretending there are no consequences to suffer. I'm quite sure I don't understand the motivations of the violent portions of the "global protest movement." I'm not sure what consequences they either want or expect. In contrast, I think I comprehend some of Byron's motivations. There's certainly something interesting, and arguably, somewhat useful, about the idea of doing "reaction testing." I know *I* wouldn't be enthusiastic about testing the police's reactions as he did. Way too much likelihood of, well, exactly what happened. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 27 01:17:28 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 21:17:28 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc Message-ID: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> I am planning a new computer and have researched powersupplies. The Zalman ZM1000-HP seems to be the best (in my criterion of low noise, quality and power). But, I probably will only be grabbing 600-700watts from it (at this time) max. All things considered equal, what is the power draw of a 700watt PSU loaded up say 600watt in use, vs a 1000watt PSU loaded up to same 600watt use? (i have a suspicion its not 600watts in both)? In otherwords, I don't mind having the 1000watt unit for its quality and future expansion, but if it ends up using 50-100-150-200 more watts (for what ever reason), and I run my PC 24/7, it may not be a case were getting the big rig is the smart choice. I know if you relate it to "class a" amp. theory, it has to be full power hungry so it can render the amplication immediately. And with a PC-PSU i don't know if to deliver 1000watts (when needed), it has to use more (to be prepared for immediate delivery when required) then a lesser watt PSU. In addition this Zalman unit says it can handle peak of 1250. Also, under equal loads, will the larger unit create more heat? i guess naturally if it did use more wattage, it would thus create more heat. I know you always want a supply that is rated for more wattage then you are going to ask for, with a decent (whatever that would be) buffer, but can you take a hit in your home hydro bill if you go for a monster supply (all be it "with same efficiency rating"?), and never use the extra room? -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 27 01:54:26 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 21:54:26 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <4C26AF52.3050005@alteeve.com> On 10-06-26 09:17 PM, ted leslie wrote: > > I am planning a new computer and have researched powersupplies. > The > Zalman ZM1000-HP > seems to be the best (in my criterion of low noise, quality and power). > But, I probably will only be grabbing 600-700watts from it (at this time) max. > > All things considered equal, > what is the power draw of a 700watt PSU loaded up say 600watt in use, > vs a 1000watt PSU loaded up to same 600watt use? (i have a suspicion its not 600watts in both)? > In otherwords, I don't mind having the 1000watt unit for its quality and future expansion, > but if it ends up using 50-100-150-200 more watts (for what ever reason), and I run my PC 24/7, > it may not be a case were getting the big rig is the smart choice. > I know if you relate it to "class a" amp. theory, it has to be full power hungry so it can render > the amplication immediately. And with a PC-PSU i don't know if to deliver 1000watts (when needed), it > has to use more (to be prepared for immediate delivery when required) then a lesser watt PSU. > In addition this Zalman unit says it can handle peak of 1250. > Also, under equal loads, will the larger unit create more heat? i guess naturally if it did use more > wattage, it would thus create more heat. > > I know you always want a supply that is rated for more wattage then you are going to ask for, with a decent > (whatever that would be) buffer, but can you take a hit in your home hydro bill if you go for a > monster supply (all be it "with same efficiency rating"?), and never use the extra room? (Good) power supplies publish their efficiency curve. It may be that you get higher efficiency at the ~700w range with a lower top capacity PSU. There is no universal answer. In *general* though, my experience is that peak efficiency tends to come in the ~75-80% load range. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 27 01:56:38 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 21:56:38 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 9:17 PM, ted leslie wrote: > > I am planning a new computer and have researched powersupplies. > The > Zalman ZM1000-HP > seems to be the best (in my criterion of low noise, quality and power). > But, I probably will only be grabbing 600-700watts from it (at this time) max. > > All things considered equal, > what is the power draw of a 700watt PSU loaded up say 600watt in use, > vs a 1000watt PSU loaded up to same 600watt use? (i have a suspicion its not 600watts in both)? > In otherwords, I don't mind having the 1000watt unit for its quality and future expansion, > but if it ?ends up using 50-100-150-200 more watts (for what ever reason), and I run my PC 24/7, > it may not be a case were getting the big rig is the smart choice. > I know if you relate it to "class a" amp. theory, it has to be full power hungry so it can render > the amplication immediately. And with a PC-PSU i don't know if to deliver 1000watts (when needed), it > has to use more (to be prepared for immediate delivery when required) then a lesser watt PSU. > In addition this Zalman unit says it can handle peak of 1250. > Also, under equal loads, will the larger unit create more heat? i guess naturally if it did use more > wattage, it would thus create more heat. > > I know you always want a supply that is rated for more wattage then you are going to ask for, with a decent > (whatever that would be) buffer, but can you take a hit in your home hydro bill if you go for a > monster supply (all be it "with same efficiency rating"?), and never use the extra room? > These are switching power supplies their efficiency is quite good. I don't have exact values but I would expect them to be the same regardless of the output Dave > > > > -- > ted leslie > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 27 02:11:26 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 22:11:26 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: <4C26AF52.3050005-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C26AF52.3050005@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4C26B34E.1080305@alteeve.com> I went to look for some efficiency curve graphs, and it seems they don't post them anymore. Some had their efficiency at specific loads though. While looking, I found this which explains the "80 Plus" certification requirements for the various loads. http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/index.php?page=support_glossary -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 27 15:10:27 2010 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 11:10:27 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: Whatever power you draw from the wall will end up as heat. The useful power will end up as heat in your components: CPU, memory, drive, video card, etc. The useless power, that wasted due to inefficiency of the PSU, will end up as heat in the PSU itself. John On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 9:17 PM, ted leslie wrote: > > I am planning a new computer and have researched powersupplies. > The > Zalman ZM1000-HP > seems to be the best (in my criterion of low noise, quality and power). > But, I probably will only be grabbing 600-700watts from it (at this time) max. > > All things considered equal, > what is the power draw of a 700watt PSU loaded up say 600watt in use, > vs a 1000watt PSU loaded up to same 600watt use? (i have a suspicion its not 600watts in both)? > In otherwords, I don't mind having the 1000watt unit for its quality and future expansion, > but if it ?ends up using 50-100-150-200 more watts (for what ever reason), and I run my PC 24/7, > it may not be a case were getting the big rig is the smart choice. > I know if you relate it to "class a" amp. theory, it has to be full power hungry so it can render > the amplication immediately. And with a PC-PSU i don't know if to deliver 1000watts (when needed), it > has to use more (to be prepared for immediate delivery when required) then a lesser watt PSU. > In addition this Zalman unit says it can handle peak of 1250. > Also, under equal loads, will the larger unit create more heat? i guess naturally if it did use more > wattage, it would thus create more heat. > > I know you always want a supply that is rated for more wattage then you are going to ask for, with a decent > (whatever that would be) buffer, but can you take a hit in your home hydro bill if you go for a > monster supply (all be it "with same efficiency rating"?), and never use the extra room? > > > > -- > ted leslie > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 27 15:25:51 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 11:25:51 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20100627152550.GA17742@node1.opengeometry.net> Well, that's true. But, I think OP is asking "conversion efficiency". Most PSU box has some rating that is 80+ (regular, bronze, gold) at 20% 50%, and 100% load. On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 11:10:27AM -0400, John Martin wrote: > Whatever power you draw from the wall will end up as heat. The useful > power will end up as heat in your components: CPU, memory, drive, > video card, etc. The useless power, that wasted due to inefficiency of > the PSU, will end up as heat in the PSU itself. > > > John > > > On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 9:17 PM, ted leslie wrote: > > > > I am planning a new computer and have researched powersupplies. > > The > > Zalman ZM1000-HP > > seems to be the best (in my criterion of low noise, quality and power). > > But, I probably will only be grabbing 600-700watts from it (at this time) max. > > > > All things considered equal, > > what is the power draw of a 700watt PSU loaded up say 600watt in use, > > vs a 1000watt PSU loaded up to same 600watt use? (i have a suspicion its not 600watts in both)? > > In otherwords, I don't mind having the 1000watt unit for its quality and future expansion, > > but if it ?ends up using 50-100-150-200 more watts (for what ever reason), and I run my PC 24/7, > > it may not be a case were getting the big rig is the smart choice. > > I know if you relate it to "class a" amp. theory, it has to be full power hungry so it can render > > the amplication immediately. And with a PC-PSU i don't know if to deliver 1000watts (when needed), it > > has to use more (to be prepared for immediate delivery when required) then a lesser watt PSU. > > In addition this Zalman unit says it can handle peak of 1250. > > Also, under equal loads, will the larger unit create more heat? i guess naturally if it did use more > > wattage, it would thus create more heat. > > > > I know you always want a supply that is rated for more wattage then you are going to ask for, with a decent > > (whatever that would be) buffer, but can you take a hit in your home hydro bill if you go for a > > monster supply (all be it "with same efficiency rating"?), and never use the extra room? > > > > > > > > -- > > ted leslie > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 27 15:11:44 2010 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 19:11:44 +0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <4C276A30.5000701@gmail.com> John Martin wrote: > Whatever power you draw from the wall will end up as heat. The useful > power will end up as heat in your components: CPU, memory, drive, > video card, etc. The useless power, that wasted due to inefficiency of > the PSU, will end up as heat in the PSU itself. > > Once, when I was not yet in Russia, during winter which happened very cold here for my wife in Russia, I advised her: Close the windows so that light can not go out. Turn on computer running all the time. Turn on refrigerator and open the door of it. Put on the lights everywhere. She listened to me, not really fully believing, and did all that. Fuses went out! ;) But now I can not sustain the hot here. Perhaps unusual summer this year. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 27 15:51:15 2010 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 11:51:15 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: <4C276A30.5000701-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C276A30.5000701@gmail.com> Message-ID: There's still a lot to be said for the old incandescent light bulbs in winter. -j On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > John Martin wrote: >> >> Whatever power you draw from the wall will end up as heat. The useful >> power will end up as heat in your components: CPU, memory, drive, >> video card, etc. The useless power, that wasted due to inefficiency of >> the PSU, will end up as heat in the PSU itself. >> >> > > Once, when I was not yet in Russia, during winter which happened very cold > here for my wife in Russia, I advised her: > > Close the windows so that light can not go out. Turn on computer running all > the time. Turn on refrigerator and open the door of it. Put on the lights > everywhere. > > She listened to me, not really fully believing, and did all that. Fuses went > out! ;) > > But now I can not sustain the hot here. Perhaps unusual summer this year. > > zb. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 27 18:10:58 2010 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:10:58 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C276A30.5000701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C279432.7040505@teksavvy.com> On 06/27/2010 11:51 AM, John Martin wrote: > There's still a lot to be said for the old incandescent light bulbs in > winter. -j > That reminded me of something I saw in the paper a while back. Some scientists agree. http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/346692 -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 27 20:20:40 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 16:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: <4C279432.7040505-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C276A30.5000701@gmail.com> <4C279432.7040505@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: | From: Glen Strom | That reminded me of something I saw in the paper a while back. Some scientists | agree. | | http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/346692 I imagine (but do not know) that the CO2 cost of manufacturing a CFL bulb is higher than the CO2 cost of manufacturing the equivalent number of ordinary incandescent bulbs (3? 5?). If this is the case, replacing incandescent bulbs in low-use locations is dumb. Certainly it is echonomically dumb. Often heat generated from light-bulbs is at the top of a room and stays there. Not optimal for space-heating. Almost 100% of electricity used for room lighting heats the room: even the bit that becomes light turns into heat (but some could exit via a window). I certainly don't go around my house changing light bulbs back and forth between incandescent and CFL when the seasons change. Even if I were not lazy, the fact is that a used incandescent bulb's filament may be easily broken in the process. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 27 22:42:07 2010 From: jamesknott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 18:42:07 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C276A30.5000701@gmail.com> <4C279432.7040505@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <4C27D3BF.3020204@gmail.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Glen Strom > > | That reminded me of something I saw in the paper a while back. Some scientists > | agree. > | > |http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/346692 > > I imagine (but do not know) that the CO2 cost of manufacturing a CFL > bulb is higher than the CO2 cost of manufacturing the equivalent > number of ordinary incandescent bulbs (3? 5?). > That article forgets about the distribution of electricity. In many areas, the distribution network is already under considerable strain, so the more load that can be diverted, the better, no matter what the original source of the power. IIRC, that big blackout a few years ago, was started on an overloaded system that couldn't withstand the hit of the initial problem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 01:09:04 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 21:09:04 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations Message-ID: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> I am planning to set up a fileserver for my home network. Mainly, this is so that when my wife is at home she can sync her laptop and her desktop (both Macs) via a quick-and-easy rsync so that both machines are always in sync, with an additional copy on the network from which the offsite network backup can happen at night. I don't want to set up a separate full-sized machine to take this role - I'd prefer a small, quiet and inexpensive device that I can plug in and will "just work". I am looking at these two devices - a Linksys Media Hub or a WD MyBook: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_357&item_id=023031 http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=15_213_603&item_id=031508 I would welcome any other suggestions or caveats. Thanks! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 01:19:08 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 21:19:08 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100628010904.GA10761-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 9:09 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I am planning to set up a fileserver for my home network. ?Mainly, this > is so that when my wife is at home she can sync her laptop and her > desktop (both Macs) via a quick-and-easy rsync so that both machines are > always in sync, with an additional copy on the network from which the > offsite network backup can happen at night. > > I don't want to set up a separate full-sized machine to take this role - > I'd prefer a small, quiet and inexpensive device that I can plug in and > will "just work". > > I am looking at these two devices - a Linksys Media Hub or a WD MyBook: > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_357&item_id=023031 > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=15_213_603&item_id=031508 > > I would welcome any other suggestions or caveats. ?Thanks! > -- > I have the WD, and it's great. I don't know what else there is to say, it did what they said: I plugged it in and it worked. I chose it because it's WD, and they always seem to come highly recommended when it comes to storage. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 02:46:29 2010 From: timhildred-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Timothy Hildred) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 03:46:29 +0100 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: the sheevaplug might be a good option, low power use, pretty powerful, nice and small On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 2:19 AM, Thomas Milne < tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 9:09 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman > wrote: > > I am planning to set up a fileserver for my home network. Mainly, this > > is so that when my wife is at home she can sync her laptop and her > > desktop (both Macs) via a quick-and-easy rsync so that both machines are > > always in sync, with an additional copy on the network from which the > > offsite network backup can happen at night. > > > > I don't want to set up a separate full-sized machine to take this role - > > I'd prefer a small, quiet and inexpensive device that I can plug in and > > will "just work". > > > > I am looking at these two devices - a Linksys Media Hub or a WD MyBook: > > > > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_357&item_id=023031 > > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=15_213_603&item_id=031508 > > > > I would welcome any other suggestions or caveats. Thanks! > > -- > > > > I have the WD, and it's great. I don't know what else there is to say, > it did what they said: I plugged it in and it worked. > > I chose it because it's WD, and they always seem to come highly > recommended when it comes to storage. > > -- > TBM > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 02:56:40 2010 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 22:56:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Home NAS Recommendations Message-ID: <201006280256.o5S2uex7051789@gc0.generalconcepts.com> | the sheevaplug might be a good option, low power use, pretty powerful, nice | and small You might be interested in this pre-packaged hardware/software based on the sheevaplug: http://www.tonidoplug.com/ The idea is to be a fileserver that you can access from everywhere. Hope that helps! John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 03:39:24 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 23:39:24 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100628033924.GA13804@yam.witteman.ca> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 03:46:29AM +0100, Timothy Hildred wrote: >the sheevaplug might be a good option, low power use, pretty powerful, nice and >small It does look interesting, but it ends up being a bit more expensive - and I don't know where to buy one. Another possibility that occurs to me is that I could pick up a router with a USB port. Lennart's much-touted D-Link DIR-825 has such a port, and that could be very attractive - both in terms of cost and function. I've been thinking of replacing my current router for a while with one that speaks "N", so this could be that opportunity. Hmm... -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 04:31:31 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 00:31:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jun 2010, Timothy Hildred wrote: > the sheevaplug might be a good option, low power use, pretty powerful, > nice and small I've got a Sheevaplug and I'm very happy with it. It's one of the earlier dev kit models. The newer ones seem prettier :) Mine is acting as a firewall. I wish it had 2 NICs - apparently the logic to support this is on board. Since it doesn't I use a NIC on one side and a USB<->Ethernet bridge on the other. It's been working well for nine months. I think it would make a fine fileserver/NAS. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 12:59:21 2010 From: rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rafael Carneiro) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 08:59:21 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: I have a D-Link DNS-323 at home and I'm very happy with it. It is more expensive but it gives you gigabit ethernet, a USB port and RAID 1. Out of the box you also get: ftp, smb, UPnP media server, itunes server, torrent (sort of, you need to "install" it, but I still consider that out of the box). http://www.dlink.ca/products/?pid=509 http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_357&item_id=011783 Like many other such devices, it runs linux. It's very easy to get console access ( telnet at first - http://wiki.dns323.info/ ) and from there the limits are your imagination and it's processing power/memory =D (ARM 500MHz, 32MB RAM). Rafael On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 12:31 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jun 2010, Timothy Hildred wrote: > > the sheevaplug might be a good option, low power use, pretty powerful, >> nice and small >> > > I've got a Sheevaplug and I'm very happy with it. It's one of the earlier > dev kit models. The newer ones seem prettier :) > > Mine is acting as a firewall. I wish it had 2 NICs - apparently the logic > to support this is on board. Since it doesn't I use a NIC on one side and > a USB<->Ethernet bridge on the other. It's been working well for nine > months. > > I think it would make a fine fileserver/NAS. > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 > IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) > Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com > Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Rafael Carneiro, BEng http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rcarneiro -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 13:24:58 2010 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matt Middleton) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 09:24:58 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100628010904.GA10761-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100628092458.zaga26t1z4c88k0w@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> I built my own NAS using a bit of new hardware (including a shiny new 2TB WD drive) and FreeNAS, and I've been really happy with it. The cash outlay is probably higher for the hardware than the other solutions, but I've been very happy with FreeNAS as the OS. It's been running on a CD for months now, and the only downtime has been to add new drives (those 2TB drives aren't cheap). Quoting William O'Higgins Witteman : > I am planning to set up a fileserver for my home network. Mainly, this > is so that when my wife is at home she can sync her laptop and her > desktop (both Macs) via a quick-and-easy rsync so that both machines are > always in sync, with an additional copy on the network from which the > offsite network backup can happen at night. > > I don't want to set up a separate full-sized machine to take this role - > I'd prefer a small, quiet and inexpensive device that I can plug in and > will "just work". > > I am looking at these two devices - a Linksys Media Hub or a WD MyBook: > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_357&item_id=023031 > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=15_213_603&item_id=031508 > > I would welcome any other suggestions or caveats. Thanks! > -- > > yours, > > William > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 13:38:43 2010 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 09:38:43 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: <4C27D3BF.3020204-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C276A30.5000701@gmail.com> <4C279432.7040505@teksavvy.com> <4C27D3BF.3020204@gmail.com> Message-ID: That's when calculations around the relative cost of a joule of energy delivered as natural gas or electricity come into play. That and the fact that electricity is 'high grade' energy not to be wasted on mere heating. -j On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 6:42 PM, James Knott wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> >> | From: Glen Strom >> >> | That reminded me of something I saw in the paper a while back. Some >> scientists >> | agree. >> | >> |http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/346692 >> >> I imagine (but do not know) that the CO2 cost of manufacturing a CFL >> bulb is higher than the CO2 cost of manufacturing the equivalent >> number of ordinary incandescent bulbs (3? 5?). >> > > That article forgets about the distribution of electricity. ?In many areas, > the distribution network is already under considerable strain, so the more > load that can be diverted, the better, no matter what the original source of > the power. ?IIRC, that big blackout a few years ago, was started on an > overloaded system that couldn't withstand the hit of the initial problem. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 21:09:33 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 17:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100628033924.GA13804-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628033924.GA13804@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: | From: William O'Higgins Witteman | Another possibility that occurs to me is that I could pick up a router | with a USB port. I've heard a few folks whining about the transfer rate of wireless routers with USB drives hooked to them. The most egregious case (if I remember correctly) is the Asus one that advertises USB 2 support but does not manage the USB 2 "High Speed" rate. I think that it only managed to be a USB 1.x controller. Lennart has suggested that handling USB is processor intensive so low-power router CPUs might not be up to the task. Do read reviews about whatever choice you are thinking of making. If you want to build your own Mini-ITX box for this, there appears to be a good deal at NewEgg.ca today for a case and power supply. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 21:43:42 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 17:43:42 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100628010904.GA10761-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 9:09 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I am looking at these two devices - a Linksys Media Hub or a WD MyBook: > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_357&item_id=023031 > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=15_213_603&item_id=031508 > > I would welcome any other suggestions or caveats. ?Thanks! I've been using a WD MyBook "World Edition" reasonably happily for a couple of years now for this purpose. I had to "root" it in order to get it to speak NFS, but that wasn't troublesome at all. http://mybookworld.wikidot.com/hacks-and-howto http://martin.hinner.info/mybook/sshaccess.php I installed more stuff on it, but the only service I added in that I actually run is an NTP server. While one could, in principle, run databases, web servers, and SCM repositories on it, that seems a tad excessive for a rather light-weight ARM chip with not too much memory. I was notably amused to see a compiler for Go! as one of the options. Definitely not high-powered, in any sense, but it has certainly successfully "just worked" for me. I have periodically debated getting new hardware; the only thing I've gotten, of late, was a refurb T43 laptop. I have thought about the idea of putting together a "NAS box," but resisted temptation thus far. I very much like the fact that my WD "MyBook" is a mighty simple appliance that *doesn't* have wild amounts of additional functionality that I need to worry about configuring or further backing up. 1. The Cool Alternative would be to spend a fair bit of money on a perhaps-little, perhaps-towering box with a bunch of disk drives that would be a *way* lot more powerful. (Hey, I haven't bought new hardware in a while, so this would be certain to be considerable multiples more powerful than ANY other machine I have :-)!) But I've been holding off, on the speculation that perhaps the preferable answer is to... 2. grab another 2TB/4TB little NAS box There's another option, but one that Hugh's comments suggest to me may be one to deprecate, namely... 3. grab a 2TB drive and connect it via USB to the existing MyBook unit. I'm suspicious that performance will be pretty terrible, and I think I might actually care about that. It seems to me that it would be better to spring the extra $100 or so for #2. Some of my thinking is a bit Plan 9-influenced (hence making the Go! availability on MyBook a shade more ironic...); one of the ideas there was that you'd have 3 kinds of machines around: a) Compute servers b) File servers c) Display servers Oddly enough, hardware has gotten sufficiently powerful that, at least at the home level, there doesn't seem to be a need for an especially powerful "compute server." Perhaps the heaviest computational loads fall out of processing music and video, which pretty much *has* to take place at the "display server" layer. Anyways, I've been reasonably happy with my WD MyBook. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 22:20:31 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:20:31 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20100628222031.GG2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 09:17:28PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > I am planning a new computer and have researched powersupplies. > The > Zalman ZM1000-HP > seems to be the best (in my criterion of low noise, quality and power). > But, I probably will only be grabbing 600-700watts from it (at this time) max. It is generally recommended to be drawing about 50 to 60%. Efficiency tends to drop at maximum load. I can't find any good (as in done properly) reviews for that power supply. > All things considered equal, > what is the power draw of a 700watt PSU loaded up say 600watt in use, > vs a 1000watt PSU loaded up to same 600watt use? (i have a suspicion its not 600watts in both)? > In otherwords, I don't mind having the 1000watt unit for its quality and future expansion, > but if it ends up using 50-100-150-200 more watts (for what ever reason), and I run my PC 24/7, > it may not be a case were getting the big rig is the smart choice. > I know if you relate it to "class a" amp. theory, it has to be full power hungry so it can render > the amplication immediately. And with a PC-PSU i don't know if to deliver 1000watts (when needed), it > has to use more (to be prepared for immediate delivery when required) then a lesser watt PSU. > In addition this Zalman unit says it can handle peak of 1250. I never trust the specs from the manufacturor. I trust hardwaresecrets.com and the like. > Also, under equal loads, will the larger unit create more heat? i guess naturally if it did use more > wattage, it would thus create more heat. > > I know you always want a supply that is rated for more wattage then you are going to ask for, with a decent > (whatever that would be) buffer, but can you take a hit in your home hydro bill if you go for a > monster supply (all be it "with same efficiency rating"?), and never use the extra room? If it is 85% efficient at the load you are using, then it doesn't matter if it is rated 600, 700 or 1000W, because it is 85% efficient at that load. Now a 600, 700 and 1000 are not likely to be equally efficient at the same load. What are you planning on putting in the machine? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 22:30:20 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:30:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux installation snags Message-ID: Ubuntu 10.04 LTS came out fairly recently so I've been installing it on boxes for family members that don't like frequent upgrades. I've bump into a number of tricky problems. Each ate a bunch of my time. It's almost as if things are getting worse. 1. on a notebook that was happily running Uubntu 8.04 LTS: the 64-bit nouveau driver just did not work. But the 32-bit one does. (Also happens with Fedora 13 live CDs.). nv driver does work if you spoon-feed it a resolution (i.e. use an xorg.conf file). nv is what 8.04 used. There are hints that kernel mode-setting for one driver (eg. nouveau) may not work with another driver (eg. nv) yet I am not sure that driver choice (in xorg.conf) affects modesetting kernel module choice. 2. on a desktop, the radeon driver will not run the monitor on the DVI port but will run it on the VGA port. Both are supposed to be using the same signal ("mirrored") and clock rates. xrandr thinks both ports are working. The same driver worked in 8.04. The video card is a Radeon 7000/VE. Old, but fine for the task (driving a nice Dell 2405FPW). 3. on the same desktop, ubiquity (the installer) would show no disk drive as a target for installation. It turned out that dmraid(8) detected the fingerprints of a Promise RAID system on the drive contents and Ubiquity would not touch it. 1) Why no diagnostic to tell me why it was ignoring the disk? As it was, I had to instrument some of the Ubiquity shell scripts to figure out what was going on. 2) the drive was never used in a RAID and the hardware does not include a Promise card. 2a) How could that happen? Was this a false positive? 2b) Surely Ubiquity should report a broken RAID array rather than just ignoring it. I hope that this isn't a long-term trend. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 22:32:27 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:32:27 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628033924.GA13804@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100628223227.GH2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 05:09:33PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I've heard a few folks whining about the transfer rate of wireless > routers with USB drives hooked to them. > > The most egregious case (if I remember correctly) is the Asus one that > advertises USB 2 support but does not manage the USB 2 "High Speed" > rate. I think that it only managed to be a USB 1.x controller. > > Lennart has suggested that handling USB is processor intensive so > low-power router CPUs might not be up to the task. Certainly true. The OpenRD has eSATA, but is otherwise similar in power consumption to the sheevaplug (being the same CPU and ram and such). I think it has room for a laptop SATA driver internally too. > Do read reviews about whatever choice you are thinking of making. > > If you want to build your own Mini-ITX box for this, there appears to > be a good deal at NewEgg.ca today for a case and power supply. > Is the eeebox too expensive to be a viable option? Of course there is the Asus TS server http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=570_7_125&item_id=028911 which I have no idea what is like. Looks cute. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 22:35:18 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: <20100628222031.GG2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> <20100628222031.GG2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | What are you planning on putting in the machine? I recommend bread. My toaster is spec'ed to draw 750w. It's a dual-core model. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 22:39:24 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:39:24 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> <20100628222031.GG2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100628223924.GI2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 06:35:18PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | What are you planning on putting in the machine? > > I recommend bread. My toaster is spec'ed to draw 750w. It's a > dual-core model. Well bread tends to dry out and eventually catch fire if left in for more than a few minutes, so in fact bread is not a viable long term use. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 23:21:04 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 19:21:04 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: <20100628222031.GG2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> <20100628222031.GG2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100628192104.e93ef7d9.tleslie@tcn.net> > What are you planning on putting in the machine? > asus Rampage III Extreme mobo intel i7 930 oc'd to 3.8-4.0 ghz with a top of the line Noctua cooler. 18 gb ram 3x2gb modules and 3x4gb modules (g.skill oc 2000mhz ram). 3ware sata3 raid controller 2 nvidia 250 type (dual dual-link) pci-e 2.0 vid cards (run tri monitor set up). sound card, bluray drive, a few non-ssd drives, and a couple ssd drives. and a few more fans then average. Running linux, with a few vmware guest os's on it. i think the OC is the big unknown when calc'ing the draw, its 130watts at stock 2.8 ghz. sounds to me so far with what been said i better go with the 1000watt supply, it isn't likely to hit my electical bill much different then a 750watt (lowest i would probably consider going), from what i am hearing? Also, i don't want to have any crashes do to underpowered psu. tl On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:20:31 -0400 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 09:17:28PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > > I am planning a new computer and have researched powersupplies. > > The > > Zalman ZM1000-HP > > seems to be the best (in my criterion of low noise, quality and power). > > But, I probably will only be grabbing 600-700watts from it (at this time) max. > > It is generally recommended to be drawing about 50 to 60%. Efficiency > tends to drop at maximum load. > > I can't find any good (as in done properly) reviews for that power supply. > > > All things considered equal, > > what is the power draw of a 700watt PSU loaded up say 600watt in use, > > vs a 1000watt PSU loaded up to same 600watt use? (i have a suspicion its not 600watts in both)? > > In otherwords, I don't mind having the 1000watt unit for its quality and future expansion, > > but if it ends up using 50-100-150-200 more watts (for what ever reason), and I run my PC 24/7, > > it may not be a case were getting the big rig is the smart choice. > > I know if you relate it to "class a" amp. theory, it has to be full power hungry so it can render > > the amplication immediately. And with a PC-PSU i don't know if to deliver 1000watts (when needed), it > > has to use more (to be prepared for immediate delivery when required) then a lesser watt PSU. > > In addition this Zalman unit says it can handle peak of 1250. > > I never trust the specs from the manufacturor. I trust > hardwaresecrets.com and the like. > > > Also, under equal loads, will the larger unit create more heat? i guess naturally if it did use more > > wattage, it would thus create more heat. > > > > I know you always want a supply that is rated for more wattage then you are going to ask for, with a decent > > (whatever that would be) buffer, but can you take a hit in your home hydro bill if you go for a > > monster supply (all be it "with same efficiency rating"?), and never use the extra room? > > If it is 85% efficient at the load you are using, then it doesn't matter > if it is rated 600, 700 or 1000W, because it is 85% efficient at that > load. Now a 600, 700 and 1000 are not likely to be equally efficient > at the same load. > > What are you planning on putting in the machine? > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 23:42:07 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 19:42:07 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: <20100628192104.e93ef7d9.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> <20100628222031.GG2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100628192104.e93ef7d9.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20100628234207.GJ2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 07:21:04PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > asus Rampage III Extreme mobo > intel i7 930 oc'd to 3.8-4.0 ghz with a top of the line Noctua cooler. > 18 gb ram 3x2gb modules and 3x4gb modules (g.skill oc 2000mhz ram). > 3ware sata3 raid controller > 2 nvidia 250 type (dual dual-link) pci-e 2.0 vid cards (run tri monitor set up). > sound card, > bluray drive, > a few non-ssd drives, and a couple ssd drives. > and a few more fans then average. > Running linux, with a few vmware guest os's on it. > > i think the OC is the big unknown when calc'ing the draw, its 130watts at stock 2.8 ghz. > sounds to me so far with what been said i better go with the 1000watt supply, > it isn't likely to hit my electical bill much different then a 750watt (lowest i would probably consider going), > from what i am hearing? Also, i don't want to have any crashes do to underpowered psu. Well I would at least go with a known good power supply. So far I have not been able to do that for the model you mentioned. The 250 cards are probably around 150W max each (I have seen a number of tests where each card hits 100W under 3D load). Add another 150 for the CPU, maybe 50 for the mainboard and ram, and about 10W per drive (they probably don't use that much). Looks like around 550 or 600W to me. Something like a 750 or 850 might actually do well. I think I would go for a Corsair HX850 if I was building it. That I know is a good power supply. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 23:49:32 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 19:49:32 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: <20100628234207.GJ2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> <20100628222031.GG2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100628192104.e93ef7d9.tleslie@tcn.net> <20100628234207.GJ2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100628194932.80e7dc55.tleslie@tcn.net> Not that i rank noise to highly in the choice, but i hate overly loud supplies. Whats the noise like on the HX850? tl On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 19:42:07 -0400 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 07:21:04PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > > asus Rampage III Extreme mobo > > intel i7 930 oc'd to 3.8-4.0 ghz with a top of the line Noctua cooler. > > 18 gb ram 3x2gb modules and 3x4gb modules (g.skill oc 2000mhz ram). > > 3ware sata3 raid controller > > 2 nvidia 250 type (dual dual-link) pci-e 2.0 vid cards (run tri monitor set up). > > sound card, > > bluray drive, > > a few non-ssd drives, and a couple ssd drives. > > and a few more fans then average. > > Running linux, with a few vmware guest os's on it. > > > > i think the OC is the big unknown when calc'ing the draw, its 130watts at stock 2.8 ghz. > > sounds to me so far with what been said i better go with the 1000watt supply, > > it isn't likely to hit my electical bill much different then a 750watt (lowest i would probably consider going), > > from what i am hearing? Also, i don't want to have any crashes do to underpowered psu. > > Well I would at least go with a known good power supply. So far I have > not been able to do that for the model you mentioned. > > The 250 cards are probably around 150W max each (I have seen a number > of tests where each card hits 100W under 3D load). Add another 150 for > the CPU, maybe 50 for the mainboard and ram, and about 10W per drive > (they probably don't use that much). Looks like around 550 or 600W to me. > Something like a 750 or 850 might actually do well. I think I would go > for a Corsair HX850 if I was building it. That I know is a good power > supply. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 28 23:54:42 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 19:54:42 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100628223227.GH2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628033924.GA13804@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628223227.GH2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100628235442.GA24365@yam.witteman.ca> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 06:32:27PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Is the eeebox too expensive to be a viable option? I think so, because they are a bit hard to come by in the Linux-installed config, and the comparable Revo is more expensive than I need it to be because of the nVidia ION, which I don't need/want. >Of course there is the Asus TS server >http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=570_7_125&item_id=028911 >which I have no idea what is like. Looks cute. It does look cute, but it has a lower capacity drive than I need, and it come with Windows. I won't buy anything with Windows on it - I get enough of that at work. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 29 05:38:29 2010 From: andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Heagle) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 01:38:29 -0400 Subject: private servers sharing common root In-Reply-To: <4C236C91.1030000-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4C236C91.1030000@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <201006290138.29401.andrew@logaan.com> On June 24, 2010 10:32:49 am you wrote: > See a setup where they are building a lot of new servers. > To enable scripts and automation they all share a common root password. > > I have learned that the same passwords on multiple servers, especially > the same root > password is a recipe for an insane amount of work, especially if there > is a security > breach. Because ALL the servers with the common password must be > considered compromised. > > Now in this instance, these are private servers, not available to the > outside public. > They are relatively safe and secure. Nevertheless, if a security breach > does occur > they are all considered compromised. > > Can a bash script that sets up a common root password, somehow operate > on servers > with different root passwds? > > (Sorry if it sounds confusing. I am confused too at this time) > Perhaps in a few days I can repost with a clearer picture :) > > /teddy If you are not interested in configuring and deploying something like Puppet or CFEngine for managing your system, I think you might be looking for a tool like ControlTier (http://controltier.org/wiki/Main_Page) or Func (https://fedorahosted.org/func/) Regards, Andrew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 29 08:21:39 2010 From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 04:21:39 -0400 Subject: Arch printer issues Message-ID: <4C29AD13.4080405@asininetech.com> Hi, I have a Canon MP150 printer. I'm using Arch Linux 64-bit. The printer is refused to be detected by cups in any way, though dmesg shows a USB Bi-directional printer. Scanning works perfectly though. I have tried everything in the Arch CUPS wiki: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/CUPS The ppd seems to exist in the /usr/share/cups folder, but nothing happens. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 29 08:34:29 2010 From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 04:34:29 -0400 Subject: Arch printer issues In-Reply-To: <4C29AD13.4080405-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C29AD13.4080405@asininetech.com> Message-ID: <4C29B015.5070102@asininetech.com> On 06/29/2010 04:21 AM, Sadiq wrote: > > > Hi, > > I have a Canon MP150 printer. I'm using Arch Linux 64-bit. > > The printer is refused to be detected by cups in any way, though dmesg > shows a USB Bi-directional printer. > Scanning works perfectly though. > > I have tried everything in the Arch CUPS wiki: > http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/CUPS > > The ppd seems to exist in the /usr/share/cups folder, but nothing > happens. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Never mind, got it to work. Had to install the hal-cups-utils package. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 29 14:05:58 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 10:05:58 -0400 Subject: Power draw of power supply. 700watt vs 1000 watt, etc In-Reply-To: <20100628194932.80e7dc55.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100626211728.79af7b55.tleslie@tcn.net> <20100628222031.GG2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100628192104.e93ef7d9.tleslie@tcn.net> <20100628234207.GJ2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100628194932.80e7dc55.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20100629140558.GK2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 07:49:32PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > Not that i rank noise to highly in the choice, but i hate overly loud supplies. > Whats the noise like on the HX850? Well I have the HX750 in my wife's desktop (core i7 920, 6GB ram, dual WD 500GB drives and a 275GTX card). I did not notice any difference in sound going from a Silencer 610 to the HX750. I can hear the video card, but nothing else as far as I can tell. The CPU fan is a TRUE120, so that makes no noise, and the case is a TJ04 which is very sound dampening though, so hard to say. Still it seems very quiet. It uses a 140mm fan, so that alone tends to make it much quieter than those that use 80mm fans. You can see a good review here: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/741 No noise level measurements, because all the other test equipment makes so much noise it isn't practical to do. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 29 14:07:28 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 10:07:28 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100628235442.GA24365-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628033924.GA13804@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628223227.GH2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100628235442.GA24365@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100629140728.GL2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 07:54:42PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I think so, because they are a bit hard to come by in the > Linux-installed config, and the comparable Revo is more expensive than I > need it to be because of the nVidia ION, which I don't need/want. > > It does look cute, but it has a lower capacity drive than I need, and it > come with Windows. I won't buy anything with Windows on it - I get > enough of that at work. Yeah unfortunately it seems you can either buy something with windows or buy parts. Very few options for buying whole machines without windows. Stupid world we live in at the moment. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 29 15:12:39 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:12:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100629140728.GL2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628033924.GA13804@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628223227.GH2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100628235442.GA24365@yam.witteman.ca> <20100629140728.GL2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Yeah unfortunately it seems you can either buy something with windows or | buy parts. Very few options for buying whole machines without windows. | Stupid world we live in at the moment. Or you can buy expensive server-class hardware with a la carte OS. Actually,, here is a possibly reasonable choice for a NAS: NCIX has the Acer Revo R1600 for $199.99 for the next day or so and ground shipping ought to be $5.99 if I read correctly. No PST or HST will be charged by them for the next day or so. As for OS, it comes with "Linux Boot" which turns out to be FreeDOS!?!?! What a misleading terminology! I poured Ubuntu on mine and don't remember any difficulties. I used an external USB DVD burner. The part that makes this most interesting for a NAS is the eSATA connector. But there is only one. You are paying for an ION video controller in this box. In fact, that is why I bought it -- to run a TV set. But it is overkill for a NAS. NCIX has a quite similar Zotac MAG HD-NS01-u on sale too. $219.99 before a $20 mail-in rebate (yuck). I haven't noticed any interesting differences between it and the Revo 1600 but I haven't looked hard. $200 for something that is low power and small and yet runs ordinary PC distros is an interesting choice. Funny fact: the desktop Atom in the Revo can run x86-64 code but the notebook one cannot. This may have changed with the recent round of Atom updates. Funny fact: the ION is supposed to support up to 4G of RAM but Revo owners find that 4G is a problem (unless my (human) memory is faulty, which happens too often). Prying the Revo open to add RAM is not trivial but can be done -- there are movies on the internet. I did it but snapped a little bit of plastic in the process (not actually a problem, or even visible, but annoying). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 29 15:27:57 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:27:57 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628033924.GA13804@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628223227.GH2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100628235442.GA24365@yam.witteman.ca> <20100629140728.GL2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100629152757.GA7306@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 11:12:39AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >| From: Lennart Sorensen > >| Yeah unfortunately it seems you can either buy something with windows or >| buy parts. Very few options for buying whole machines without windows. >| Stupid world we live in at the moment. > >Or you can buy expensive server-class hardware with a la carte OS. The choices are improving, and I put my money where those improvements will get noticed. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 29 15:31:40 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:31:40 -0400 Subject: Linux installation snags In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C2A11DC.9070302@ve3syb.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Ubuntu 10.04 LTS came out fairly recently so I've been installing it > on boxes for family members that don't like frequent upgrades. > > I've bump into a number of tricky problems. Two other problems you may run across are Pulse Audio and Upstart. Pulse Audio on my machine took a set of audio hardware that worked perfectly under Alsa and broke it. It gives me all kinds of problems now and then with high CPU loads, and/or stuttering audio. Upstart has changed the boot process to make a machine appear to boot faster. It doesn't seem to follow the concept of runlevels any more. The main problem with that for me is no longer knowing how to boot to runlevel 3 (ie. no X) if I run in to problems with the video card device driver. The main problem with the move to Upstart is that it delays running of some processes during startup including the running of fsck. If you have your user partition (ie. /home) on a separate partition from root, your machine can boot and give you the gdm login screen but the system can be (unknown to the person about to login) still running fsck and the user partition may not be mounted. A user tries to login and gets a white screen and the system appears to hang. This latter problem is barely acceptable problem for those of us who know our way around a Linux box and can easily recover without having to do another reboot. Its not acceptable for your average user who will wonder why their computer is suddenly broken. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 29 15:36:46 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:36:46 -0400 Subject: Linux installation snags In-Reply-To: <4C2A11DC.9070302-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4C2A11DC.9070302@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <20100629153646.GM2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 11:31:40AM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> Ubuntu 10.04 LTS came out fairly recently so I've been installing it >> on boxes for family members that don't like frequent upgrades. >> >> I've bump into a number of tricky problems. > > Two other problems you may run across are Pulse Audio and Upstart. > > Pulse Audio on my machine took a set of audio hardware that worked > perfectly under Alsa and broke it. It gives me all kinds of problems now > and then with high CPU loads, and/or stuttering audio. > > Upstart has changed the boot process to make a machine appear to boot > faster. It doesn't seem to follow the concept of runlevels any more. The > main problem with that for me is no longer knowing how to boot to > runlevel 3 (ie. no X) if I run in to problems with the video card device > driver. runlevel 3 is only no X on redhat (and a few redhat like distributions). It has never meant that in general. On Debian style systems there is no difference between runlevels 2, 3, 4 and 5 at all unless the admin makes it different. I would have thought it still followed the runlevels to determine what to run, just not for what order to do the starts. That certainly seems to be what insserv does (which is what Debian is moving to). > The main problem with the move to Upstart is that it delays running of > some processes during startup including the running of fsck. If you have > your user partition (ie. /home) on a separate partition from root, your > machine can boot and give you the gdm login screen but the system can be > (unknown to the person about to login) still running fsck and the user > partition may not be mounted. A user tries to login and gets a white > screen and the system appears to hang. That's ridiculous. Certainly on Debian, rcS still finishes before rc2 is done, even if some things are done in parallel now. So until fsck is done and things are mounted, no services will try to run. > This latter problem is barely acceptable problem for those of us who > know our way around a Linux box and can easily recover without having to > do another reboot. Its not acceptable for your average user who will > wonder why their computer is suddenly broken. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 29 17:22:52 2010 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matt Middleton) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:22:52 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100629152757.GA7306-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628033924.GA13804@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628223227.GH2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100628235442.GA24365@yam.witteman.ca> <20100629140728.GL2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100629152757.GA7306@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100629132252.iw8s7gzwvvowksw4@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> I bought parts, and re-used an old desktop case. You don't really have to buy server-class hardware for a home NAS; I used off-the-shelf standard PC parts with FreeNAS, and it worked fine. Quoting William O'Higgins Witteman : > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 11:12:39AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> | From: Lennart Sorensen >> >> | Yeah unfortunately it seems you can either buy something with windows or >> | buy parts. Very few options for buying whole machines without windows. >> | Stupid world we live in at the moment. >> >> Or you can buy expensive server-class hardware with a la carte OS. > > The choices are improving, and I put my money where those improvements > will get noticed. > -- > > yours, > > William > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 29 17:35:31 2010 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 17:35:31 +0000 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100629132252.iw8s7gzwvvowksw4-lGUHJOqNqQhyLmsWvbx5QJQhnBGJm0FR@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca>,,,<20100628033924.GA13804@yam.witteman.ca>,,<20100628223227.GH2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>,<20100628235442.GA24365@yam.witteman.ca>,<20100629140728.GL2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>,,<20100629152757.GA7306@yam.witteman.ca>,<20100629132252.iw8s7gzwvvowksw4@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:22:52 -0400 > From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Home NAS Recommendations > > I bought parts, and re-used an old desktop case. You don't really > have to buy server-class hardware for a home NAS; I used off-the-shelf > standard PC parts with FreeNAS, and it worked fine. Is there an advantage to using FreeNAS over say a Debian server configuration (at least from an installation, set up and update point of view)? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 29 18:12:51 2010 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 18:12:51 +0000 Subject: Linux installation snags In-Reply-To: <4C2A11DC.9070302-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: ,<4C2A11DC.9070302@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: > Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:31:40 -0400 > From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux installation snags > > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > Ubuntu 10.04 LTS came out fairly recently so I've been installing it > > on boxes for family members that don't like frequent upgrades. > > > > I've bump into a number of tricky problems. > > Two other problems you may run across are Pulse Audio and Upstart. And the switch user still does not function properly. As well, logging out often hangs the computer permanently. I'm having to restart the computer just to switch users. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 00:00:03 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 20:00:03 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100628010904.GA10761-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100630000002.GA8099@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 09:09:04PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I am planning to set up a fileserver for my home network. Mainly, this > is so that when my wife is at home she can sync her laptop and her > desktop (both Macs) via a quick-and-easy rsync so that both machines are > always in sync, with an additional copy on the network from which the > offsite network backup can happen at night. > > I don't want to set up a separate full-sized machine to take this role - > I'd prefer a small, quiet and inexpensive device that I can plug in and > will "just work". > > I am looking at these two devices - a Linksys Media Hub or a WD MyBook: > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_357&item_id=023031 > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=15_213_603&item_id=031508 > > I would welcome any other suggestions or caveats. Thanks! Hmm... how about one of MediaSonic 4-bay boxes: http://www.canadacomputers.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=MediaSonic&x=0&y=0 OT: I don't know why there isn't regular tower case with easy loading harddisk slots already built into the case. This topic comes up many many times. And, it would all disappear if we had an easy way of managing harddisks. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 00:53:09 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 20:53:09 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100630000002.GA8099-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> <20100630000002.GA8099@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100630005309.GA11477@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 08:00:03PM -0400, William Park wrote: >Hmm... how about one of MediaSonic 4-bay boxes: > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=MediaSonic&x=0&y=0 Either I am misreading these specs or none of these do EtherNet - a requirement. Also, these are more than I plan to spend. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 01:10:50 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 21:10:50 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100630005309.GA11477-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> <20100630000002.GA8099@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100630005309.GA11477@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100630011050.GA8266@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 08:53:09PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 08:00:03PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > >Hmm... how about one of MediaSonic 4-bay boxes: > > > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=MediaSonic&x=0&y=0 > > Either I am misreading these specs or none of these do EtherNet - a > requirement. Also, these are more than I plan to spend. Yes, they don't do network. They are external USB/eSATA disk (with/without RAID). -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 06:39:39 2010 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 02:39:39 -0400 Subject: Dedicated web hosting with Canadian-located data centers Message-ID: <201006300239.39746.marc@lijour.net> Hello, I am looking for a 100% Canadian web hosting solution offering Linux + root access (with good uptime and a small price!). I need to install XWiki which runs on Java. I had a bad experience a few years back with the semi-dedicated/virtual box at GoDaddy. Because I only had partial access, I could install the software but I was unable to configure it properly because I had no access to the logs (for starters). It would be much easier if I had root access. I don't expect any company to have XWiki pre- installed, but that could work as well. Any recommendation? Thanks Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 11:47:14 2010 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 07:47:14 -0400 Subject: Dedicated web hosting with Canadian-located data centers In-Reply-To: <201006300239.39746.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <201006300239.39746.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20100630114714.GA13509@watson-wilon.ca> Sounds like you need not a web hosting service but a whole host. Caneris probably offers this. They are local to Toronto. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 12:26:29 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 08:26:29 -0400 Subject: Dedicated web hosting with Canadian-located data centers In-Reply-To: <201006300239.39746.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <201006300239.39746.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <4C2B37F5.4090100@rogers.com> Marc Lijour wrote: > Hello, > > I am looking for a 100% Canadian web hosting solution offering Linux + root > access (with good uptime and a small price!). > > I need to install XWiki which runs on Java. I had a bad experience a few years > back with the semi-dedicated/virtual box at GoDaddy. Because I only had > partial access, I could install the software but I was unable to configure it > properly because I had no access to the logs (for starters). It would be much > easier if I had root access. I don't expect any company to have XWiki pre- > installed, but that could work as well. > > I don't know if they meet all your requirements, but you might try Hurricane Electric, http://www.he.net. They appear pretty cheap and you also get IPv6 addresses there. They're located at 151 Front St. W. in Toronto. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 13:23:58 2010 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matt Middleton) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 09:23:58 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca>,,,<20100628033924.GA13804@yam.witteman.ca>,,<20100628223227.GH2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>,<20100628235442.GA24365@yam.witteman.ca>,<20100629140728.GL2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>,,<20100629152757.GA7306@yam.witteman.ca>,<20100629132252.iw8s7gzwvvowksw4@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Message-ID: <20100630092358.or7e2nsry88ss80s@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Quoting john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org: > > > >> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:22:52 -0400 >> From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Home NAS Recommendations >> >> I bought parts, and re-used an old desktop case. You don't really >> have to buy server-class hardware for a home NAS; I used off-the-shelf >> standard PC parts with FreeNAS, and it worked fine. > > Is there an advantage to using FreeNAS over say a Debian server > configuration (at least from an installation, set up and update > point of view)? > > > The main advantages are that the distro is available on a LiveCD, and config is fairly straightforward via a web interface. That being said, I'm sure it's not necessarily the most powerful option. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 14:09:54 2010 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:09:54 -0400 Subject: Dedicated web hosting with Canadian-located data centers In-Reply-To: <201006300239.39746.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <201006300239.39746.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <4C2B5032.4040607@the-wire.com> Marc Lijour wrote: > Hello, > > I am looking for a 100% Canadian web hosting solution offering Linux + root > access (with good uptime and a small price!). [ ... ] > > Any recommendation? vex.net will do co-location, though I myself only have a hosting account there. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 14:40:54 2010 From: andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Heagle) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:40:54 -0400 Subject: Dedicated web hosting with Canadian-located data centers In-Reply-To: <201006300239.39746.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <201006300239.39746.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <201006301040.54466.andrew@logaan.com> On June 30, 2010 02:39:39 am you wrote: > Hello, > > I am looking for a 100% Canadian web hosting solution offering Linux + root > access (with good uptime and a small price!). > > I need to install XWiki which runs on Java. I had a bad experience a few > years back with the semi-dedicated/virtual box at GoDaddy. Because I only > had partial access, I could install the software but I was unable to > configure it properly because I had no access to the logs (for starters). > It would be much easier if I had root access. I don't expect any company > to have XWiki pre- installed, but that could work as well. > > Any recommendation? > > Thanks > > Marc I just recently got a VPS from canaca.ca. Seems alright so far. http://canaca.ca/ Andrew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 15:04:06 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 11:04:06 -0400 Subject: Linux installation snags In-Reply-To: <20100629153646.GM2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4C2A11DC.9070302@ve3syb.ca> <20100629153646.GM2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4C2B5CE6.7070706@ve3syb.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > runlevel 3 is only no X on redhat (and a few redhat like distributions). > It has never meant that in general. [snip] > I would have thought it still followed the runlevels to determine what > to run, just not for what order to do the starts. I'll have to do more reading on Upstart to see how one is supposed to control what starts at boot time based on kernel command line arguments. >> The main problem with the move to Upstart is that it delays running of >> some processes during startup including the running of fsck. If you have >> your user partition (ie. /home) on a separate partition from root, your >> machine can boot and give you the gdm login screen but the system can be >> (unknown to the person about to login) still running fsck [snip] > That's ridiculous. Certainly on Debian, rcS still finishes before rc2 > is done, even if some things are done in parallel now. So until fsck > is done and things are mounted, no services will try to run. Yes, I thought that was ridiculous. Perhaps it has been fixed with a recent update to Ubuntu 10.04 but I haven't been using that version of Ubuntu on my desktop right now due to some other problems (sound being one of them). john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > And the switch user still does not function properly. As well, logging > out often hangs the computer permanently. I'm having to restart the > computer just to switch users. I have never tried (or needed to) switch users so I can't comment on this. I'll have to try it sometime just to see what happens. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 15:08:18 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 11:08:18 -0400 Subject: OFFER GRML Monster 2010.04 Linux CD-ROMs Message-ID: I have received a bunch of professionally made GRML Monster 2010.04 Linux CD-ROMs (http://grml.org/). This is a Debian based Linux distro. aimed at system administrators. I plan to bring these to the next GTALug meeting on July 13th, but if anyone wants one of these CD-ROMs NOW, and is willing to come to my place (near Yonge & Eglinton), or some other mutually acceptable spot let me know. Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 15:32:43 2010 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:32:43 +0000 Subject: Linux installation snags In-Reply-To: <4C2B5CE6.7070706-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4C2A11DC.9070302@ve3syb.ca> <20100629153646.GM2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>,<4C2B5CE6.7070706@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 11:04:06 -0400 > From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux installation snags > > john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > And the switch user still does not function properly. As well, logging > > out often hangs the computer permanently. I'm having to restart the > > computer just to switch users. > > I have never tried (or needed to) switch users so I can't comment on > this. I'll have to try it sometime just to see what happens. > You can switch to another user once, but cannot get back to the original user. Ctrl-Alt-F7 & F8 do work to toggle back and forth. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 16:21:09 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 12:21:09 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100630092358.or7e2nsry88ss80s-lGUHJOqNqQhyLmsWvbx5QJQhnBGJm0FR@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628033924.GA13804@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628223227.GH2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100628235442.GA24365@yam.witteman.ca> <20100629140728.GL2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100629152757.GA7306@yam.witteman.ca> <20100629132252.iw8s7gzwvvowksw4@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <20100630092358.or7e2nsry88ss80s@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Matt Middleton wrote: >> Is there an advantage to using FreeNAS over say a Debian server >> ?configuration (at least from an installation, set up and update ?point of >> view)? > > The main advantages are that the distro is available on a LiveCD, and config > is fairly straightforward via a web interface. ?That being said, I'm sure > it's not necessarily the most powerful option. "Available on LiveCD" doesn't seem like much of a big deal to me... Once upon a time, it was rather valuable (especially if on dialup!) to have a barrel of packages on CD so you didn't need to download them. Reasonably quick bandwidth is sufficiently widespread these days that this doesn't seem of all that much value. What *would* seem of value to me, that isn't in something like Debian, by default, is: a) An assisted partitioning "wizard" to help build storage configurations of some sophistication. b) Some notification tooling to configure "calls for help" if the device runs into issues. Who should I nag, and how, when: - SMART complains - Running out of space - Logs bloating - Anything else that might need a bit of nagging. Such as, "security issue! Update this stuff!" c) Some expression of policy about periodic updating of software. None of these are notably alien; if there's some pre-cooked configuration and policy so that you don't have to construct it all yourself, that's of some value. I'll observe that the last time I built a "firewall box," which is a different, but still, by intent, "appliance-like" purpose, I started out by trying out a "run something off a floppy" thing, and migrated over to Debian because it was easier to add an extra Debian box to my environment than it was to add Another Different Appliance Thing Needing Different Configuration. And I suppose that this latter bit points at my particular bias :-). I tend to think Debian's a better option as an "appliance manager" than anything else, because it has pretty easy options for scaling down such that the distribution can be pretty microscopic (e.g. - it's mighty easy to leave off all "desktoppish" bits). BSD folks might have some legitimate objection that one could keep a (Net|Open|Free)BSD down to reasonably compatible size with what you could have with Debian. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 16:44:49 2010 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matt Middleton) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 12:44:49 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628033924.GA13804@yam.witteman.ca> <20100628223227.GH2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100628235442.GA24365@yam.witteman.ca> <20100629140728.GL2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100629152757.GA7306@yam.witteman.ca> <20100629132252.iw8s7gzwvvowksw4@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> <20100630092358.or7e2nsry88ss80s@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Message-ID: <20100630124449.4t2hmf1a80ksc0cs@www.matthewmiddleton.ca> Quoting Christopher Browne : > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Matt Middleton > wrote: >>> Is there an advantage to using FreeNAS over say a Debian server >>> ?configuration (at least from an installation, set up and update ?point of >>> view)? >> >> The main advantages are that the distro is available on a LiveCD, and config >> is fairly straightforward via a web interface. ?That being said, I'm sure >> it's not necessarily the most powerful option. > > "Available on LiveCD" doesn't seem like much of a big deal to me... > > Once upon a time, it was rather valuable (especially if on dialup!) to > have a barrel of packages on CD so you didn't need to download them. > > Reasonably quick bandwidth is sufficiently widespread these days that > this doesn't seem of all that much value. > > What *would* seem of value to me, that isn't in something like Debian, > by default, is: > > a) An assisted partitioning "wizard" to help build storage > configurations of some sophistication. > b) Some notification tooling to configure "calls for help" if the > device runs into issues. > Who should I nag, and how, when: > - SMART complains > - Running out of space > - Logs bloating > - Anything else that might need a bit of nagging. Such as, > "security issue! Update this stuff!" > c) Some expression of policy about periodic updating of software. > > None of these are notably alien; if there's some pre-cooked > configuration and policy so that you don't have to construct it all > yourself, that's of some value. > > I'll observe that the last time I built a "firewall box," which is a > different, but still, by intent, "appliance-like" purpose, I started > out by trying out a "run something off a floppy" thing, and migrated > over to Debian because it was easier to add an extra Debian box to my > environment than it was to add Another Different Appliance Thing > Needing Different Configuration. > > And I suppose that this latter bit points at my particular bias :-). > I tend to think Debian's a better option as an "appliance manager" > than anything else, because it has pretty easy options for scaling > down such that the distribution can be pretty microscopic (e.g. - it's > mighty easy to leave off all "desktoppish" bits). BSD folks might > have some legitimate objection that one could keep a > (Net|Open|Free)BSD down to reasonably compatible size with what you > could have with Debian. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Those are definitely some good points! (A) is there, though it's not as user friendly as it could be, but FreeBSD doesn't really have (B) or (C). I'm not a BSD guy per se, I just happened across this while looking in to different solutions. Anyway, the big plus for me about having a LiveCD is that I don't need to install an OS on a storage device; I've got a small flash drive plugged in that stores the settings, so if I need to shut the machine down, it retains my settings. That way, all my SATA channels are free for file storage. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 18:57:15 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Price is about to go up for the (Ottawa) Linux Symposium Message-ID: I've already posted that I think that the Linux Symposium is a worthwile event and that I'm going. I'm bringing it up again because The registration costs go up tonight from $325 to $500 (plus HST). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 22:21:12 2010 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 18:21:12 -0400 Subject: OT: Coming to TVO The Love of Money: The definitive Guide to the global economic meltdown Message-ID: <4C2BC358.7080108@gmail.com> http://www.tvo.org/TVOsites/WebObjects/TvoMicrosite.woa?political_literacy_the_love_of_money Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 23:07:04 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 19:07:04 -0400 Subject: OT: Coming to TVO The Love of Money: The definitive Guide to the global economic meltdown In-Reply-To: <4C2BC358.7080108-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C2BC358.7080108@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > ?http://www.tvo.org/TVOsites/WebObjects/TvoMicrosite.woa?political_literacy_the_love_of_money > This was an amazing series, absolutely necessary to understanding the situation we're in now. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 23:18:23 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 19:18:23 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? Message-ID: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> Several years ago, AOL basically destroyed Netscape as we knew it, in the process of trying to turn it into a pseudo-operating system. The Mozilla foundation had to scrap the Netscape code base entirely and go back to square one to deliver a *WEB BROWSER*. Mozilla 0.9 was an all-in-one browser-cum-newsreader-cum-email-client that inspired jokes regarding "about:kitchen sink". Amidst the public outcry, a new, stripped-down, lightweight web browser emerged, named Phoenix (later renamed Firebird and then Firefox). Now, it seems that Firefox is following the emacs and MS Office lead. Firefox is a mediocre operating system that lacks a lightweight web browser. Why does a *WEB BROWSER* need a mandatory spell-checker and SQL database, fercryinoutloud? Unlike the previous time around, the Mozilla developers are not listening to end-users, and trying to simplify/de-bloat the app. They keep on ramming crud like the "abortion bar" down users' throats. I've given up on Firefox, and am considering anything else. How have your experiences with Opera and/or Chrome/Chromium been? Any other browsers for linux that don't know about? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 30 23:29:35 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 19:29:35 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: <20100630231823.GB11868-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100630192935.2b2a29f0.tleslie@tcn.net> i used opera from about 2004-2008 and I thought it blew everything else out of the water. but it started to act up on linux alot especially around the the 64bit stuff. So i went to firefox, which became just as fast as opera for the most part. But flash crashing firefox became tiresome after your 5th crash of the day, so i went to chrome which i think has crashed on me once in a month. Chrome isn't quite as configurable as firefox. Chrome is a bit faster but not enought to make firefox a deal breaker. Once firefox gets it shit together with flash, I will probably go back to it somemore. Right now i use chrome 80-90% or time and firefox the rest. I tried opera again recently, but stuff like moonlight, and other extensions and video stuff doesn't seem to work as well (if at all), it also doesn't seem any faster. (there speed advantage has closed up over the years). I also like chrome because it is really working hard on html5 features. tl On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 19:18:23 -0400 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > Several years ago, AOL basically destroyed Netscape as we knew it, in > the process of trying to turn it into a pseudo-operating system. The > Mozilla foundation had to scrap the Netscape code base entirely and go > back to square one to deliver a *WEB BROWSER*. > > Mozilla 0.9 was an all-in-one browser-cum-newsreader-cum-email-client > that inspired jokes regarding "about:kitchen sink". Amidst the public > outcry, a new, stripped-down, lightweight web browser emerged, named > Phoenix (later renamed Firebird and then Firefox). > > Now, it seems that Firefox is following the emacs and MS Office lead. > Firefox is a mediocre operating system that lacks a lightweight web > browser. Why does a *WEB BROWSER* need a mandatory spell-checker and > SQL database, fercryinoutloud? > > Unlike the previous time around, the Mozilla developers are not > listening to end-users, and trying to simplify/de-bloat the app. They > keep on ramming crud like the "abortion bar" down users' throats. I've > given up on Firefox, and am considering anything else. How have your > experiences with Opera and/or Chrome/Chromium been? Any other browsers > for linux that don't know about? > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists