From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 1 16:40:01 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:40:01 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: <20100630231823.GB11868-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: I am a big fan of Google Chrome, but it will have the same problems that you have with Firefox. But I am finding it much faster than Firefox. On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 7:18 PM, wrote: > ?Several years ago, AOL basically destroyed Netscape as we knew it, in > the process of trying to turn it into a pseudo-operating system. ?The > Mozilla foundation had to scrap the Netscape code base entirely and go > back to square one to deliver a *WEB BROWSER*. > > ?Mozilla 0.9 was an all-in-one browser-cum-newsreader-cum-email-client > that inspired jokes regarding "about:kitchen sink". ?Amidst the public > outcry, a new, stripped-down, lightweight web browser emerged, named > Phoenix (later renamed Firebird and then Firefox). > > ?Now, it seems that Firefox is following the emacs and MS Office lead. > Firefox is a mediocre operating system that lacks a lightweight web > browser. ?Why does a *WEB BROWSER* need a mandatory spell-checker and > SQL database, fercryinoutloud? > > ?Unlike the previous time around, the Mozilla developers are not > listening to end-users, and trying to simplify/de-bloat the app. ?They > keep on ramming crud like the "abortion bar" down users' throats. ?I've > given up on Firefox, and am considering anything else. ?How have your > experiences with Opera and/or Chrome/Chromium been? ?Any other browsers > for linux that don't know about? > > -- > Walter Dnes -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 1 22:18:06 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 18:18:06 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100701221806.GA4054@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 12:40:01PM -0400, Myles Braithwaite wrote > I am a big fan of Google Chrome, but it will have the same problems > that you have with Firefox. [i3][root][~] emerge -pv www-client/chromium [...snippage...] Total: 9 packages (9 new), Size of downloads: 165,644 kB [i3][root][~] emerge -pv opera [...snippage...] Total: 4 packages (4 new), Size of downloads: 169,210 kB And to think that I was whining about Firefox. Sigh. If I had a million dollars, and could hire a team of programmers, I'd launch a fork of Firefox already. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 2 02:52:23 2010 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 22:52:23 -0400 Subject: sevenl In-Reply-To: <201006300239.39746.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <201006300239.39746.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <4C2D5467.9050305@tmis.ca> http://www.sevenl.net Right downtown Toronto near Queen+River. Go in and see the 7L guys and tell them what you require. While your there, try and recruit Kyle to TLUG. That kid is the best Linux and Networking genius I ever saw. /teddy On 6/30/2010 2:39 AM, Marc Lijour wrote: > Hello, > > I am looking for a 100% Canadian web hosting solution offering Linux + root > access (with good uptime and a small price!). > > I need to install XWiki which runs on Java. I had a bad experience a few years > back with the semi-dedicated/virtual box at GoDaddy. Because I only had > partial access, I could install the software but I was unable to configure it > properly because I had no access to the logs (for starters). It would be much > easier if I had root access. I don't expect any company to have XWiki pre- > installed, but that could work as well. > > Any recommendation? > > Thanks > > Marc > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 2 15:43:27 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 11:43:27 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: <20100701221806.GA4054-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> <20100701221806.GA4054@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 1 July 2010 18:18, wrote: > On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 12:40:01PM -0400, Myles Braithwaite wrote >> I am a big fan of Google Chrome, but it will have the same problems >> that you have with Firefox. > > [i3][root][~] emerge -pv www-client/chromium > [...snippage...] > Total: 9 packages (9 new), Size of downloads: 165,644 kB > > [i3][root][~] emerge -pv opera > [...snippage...] > Total: 4 packages (4 new), Size of downloads: 169,210 kB > > ?And to think that I was whining about Firefox. ?Sigh. ?If I had a > million dollars, and could hire a team of programmers, I'd launch a fork > of Firefox already. Given the origin of your complaints, you might be interested in uzbl (http://www.uzbl.org/). I love the idea: it's a web browser that follows the Unix philosophy, ie. each program should be small and do one thing really well. No kitchen sinks, and it can be put in a pipeline. Extra functionality (ie. extraneous things like printing(!)) are handled by optional plug-ins or pipelines. As I say, I love the *idea*, but in practical terms I'm not sure it's ready for most of us to use day-to-day yet - not if flash is a concern. I used it some for web surfing for a day or two, but I don't know if I got to the flash sites to test. It seems to be evolving rapidly and is definitely worth a look. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 2 17:14:32 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 13:14:32 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> <20100701221806.GA4054@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > On 1 July 2010 18:18, ? wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 12:40:01PM -0400, Myles Braithwaite wrote >>> I am a big fan of Google Chrome, but it will have the same problems >>> that you have with Firefox. >> >> [i3][root][~] emerge -pv www-client/chromium >> [...snippage...] >> Total: 9 packages (9 new), Size of downloads: 165,644 kB >> >> [i3][root][~] emerge -pv opera >> [...snippage...] >> Total: 4 packages (4 new), Size of downloads: 169,210 kB >> >> ?And to think that I was whining about Firefox. ?Sigh. ?If I had a >> million dollars, and could hire a team of programmers, I'd launch a fork >> of Firefox already. > > Given the origin of your complaints, you might be interested in uzbl > (http://www.uzbl.org/). ?I love the idea: it's a web browser that > follows the Unix philosophy, ie. each program should be small and do > one thing really well. ?No kitchen sinks, and it can be put in a > pipeline. ?Extra functionality (ie. extraneous things like > printing(!)) are handled by optional plug-ins or pipelines. ?As I say, > I love the *idea*, but in practical terms I'm not sure it's ready for > most of us to use day-to-day yet - not if flash is a concern. ?I used > it some for web surfing for a day or two, but I don't know if I got to > the flash sites to test. ?It seems to be evolving rapidly and is > definitely worth a look. It's interesting; I'm very much with you in loving the idea, but haven't found it quite practical yet. There are neat ideas, including - integration with Emacs - use your own favorite script to manage bookmarks On the other hand, it doesn't seem to be usable without "cooking your own toolchain" around it, notably including: - coping with how you want to cope with bookmarks - forms seem to be nontrivial somehow - it's nice that uzbl, like vi and emacs, allows customizing keybindings; it's not so nice that you seem to need to do so in order to get it working. While it certainly addresses Walter's issues (e.g. - no need for it to integrate in SQLite for managing bookmarks, because it leave bookmark management as something to be managed separately altogether[1]), it's not at all obvious how it copes with the "Flash issue." Flash is an issue where I'm not notably comfortable with any of the answers. The Apple criticisms seem to be pretty valid. (Albeit with the lurking elephant that the essay is almost equally valid if you substitute "Apple" for "Adobe" and "IOS" for "Flash.") People have discomfort about various of these related technologies, such as Air, Silverlight, Moonlight, and while I decline to engage in the hysterical twittering about "Mono is a Microsoft PLOT!!!", I'm fine with having "a level of discomfort" about them all. I'm curious as to what happens if you build up a reasonably complete toolchain around uzbl. Will it bloat in similar ways to FireFox (and, for that matter, Chrome) if you open a dozen web pages at once? It's possible that by keeping the infrastructure for bookmarks and such out of it, the footprint can stay rather smaller. On the other hand, if what's really "eating your lunch" is the memory footprint induced by the JavaScript run by all the AJAX-like applications, then the would-be savings may be a mirage. It would be unfortunate to go to the effort of building toolchains around uzbl if it left the *big* problems unsolved. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 2 18:34:36 2010 From: overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Overholt) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 14:34:36 -0400 Subject: Fedora 13 Release Party: Monday July 5 at Seneca Message-ID: <20100702183436.GK4409@redhat.com> Hi, On Monday July 5th there will be a Fedora 13 release party at Seneca College's York University campus. More details are available here: http://blog.chris.tylers.info/index.php?/archives/238-Fedora-13-Release-Event.html https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Party_F13_Toronto All are welcome to attend. See you there, Andrew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 2 19:44:57 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 15:44:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora 13 Release Party: Monday July 5 at Seneca In-Reply-To: <20100702183436.GK4409-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100702183436.GK4409@redhat.com> Message-ID: | From: Andrew Overholt | On Monday July 5th there will be a Fedora 13 release party at Seneca | College's York University campus. More details are available here: Thanks for telling us. I went to a release party for F11 or f12 (I don't remember which) at the Linux Caffe. I enjoyed it. Andrew: thanks for helping me with my notebooks problems at that release party. Chris: thanks for all your support of FLOSS. Now if only you could arrange cheaper parking. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 2 20:12:43 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 16:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: References: <1275761941.2220.1.camel@aragorn> <20100605145417.10d387d9.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C0AA0DF.4030000@asininetech.com> Message-ID: | From: Fabio FZero | Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 22:12:56 -0400 | On a related note: am I the only one here who HATES the new Grub configuration? | | If anybody here gets it and thinks it's brilliant, please write some | comments explaining why. All I see is a new and unnecessary layer of | abstraction. I don't like the new configuration stuff. Perhaps due to ignorance. The descriptions I've read don't really deal with the problems I've got soon enough to prevent me giving up. The thing is quite intricate. Some of the problem might be with conventions and those conventions may not be from the GRUB2 team. Things I'd like now: - a good config file that I (the sysadming) "own" so my changes don't interfere with updates. Such a config file exists, but it doesn't have to capabilities I feel that I need. - a way to specify the default boot selection that isn't a cardinal number but a label of some kind. For the same reason that assemblers replaced machine language in the early 1950s. - a way to name the menu choices under my control. For example, on my Netbook, the Windows 7 Restore partition is labelled automatically "Windows Vista (loader) (on /dev/sda1)". I'd like it to be called something accurately scary. The actual Windows 7 Starter partition is labelled "Windows 7 (loader) (on /dev/sda2) -- not as bad. - a way to order the menu choices under my control. For example, on another machine, I want the default to be WindowsXP. GRUB2 puts this choice after the Linux partitions which means that I have to count properly to set the default boot partition. 0, on the other hand, is an easy number: I want WinXP to be the first choice. I know that all these things can be accomplished, but I think only at cross-purposes to update-grub. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 2 23:05:23 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 19:05:23 -0400 Subject: Fedora 13 Release Party: Monday July 5 at Seneca In-Reply-To: References: <20100702183436.GK4409@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20100702230523.GA4036@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 03:44:57PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Andrew Overholt > > | On Monday July 5th there will be a Fedora 13 release party at Seneca > | College's York University campus. More details are available here: > > Thanks for telling us. > > I went to a release party for F11 or f12 (I don't remember which) at > the Linux Caffe. I enjoyed it. > > Andrew: thanks for helping me with my notebooks problems at that > release party. > > Chris: thanks for all your support of FLOSS. Now if only you could > arrange cheaper parking. How much is the parking? It was expensive when NewTLUG met there. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 3 02:50:10 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 22:50:10 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> <20100701221806.GA4054@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100703025010.GA8254@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 11:43:27AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote > Given the origin of your complaints, you might be interested in uzbl > (http://www.uzbl.org/). Thank you, thank you, thank you verrry verrry much This is exactly what I would've done if I had the C programming knowledge and had started from scratch. I'm at home with bash (think of sh as a crippled version of sh) and I've seen Python tutorials, and it looks rather simple. Even nicer is that a Gentoo ebuild is available. The "kitchen sink" version, including gstreamer and tabbed windows, downloads 45,031 kB of source. In comparison, my /usr/portage/distfiles shows that Firefox requires *AT LEAST*... 47,493 kB for the firefox tarball 49,886 kB for the xulrunner tarball 1,500 kB for the pango tarball 1,168 kB for the nspr (NetScape Portable Runtime) 1,387 kB for SQLite And then there's hunspell, and a language dictionary, and a gazillion other dependancies. I like what I see so far. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 3 03:06:21 2010 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 23:06:21 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <201007022306.21793.amarjan@pobox.com> On July 2, 2010 01:14:32 pm you wrote: > On the other hand, if what's really "eating your lunch" is the memory > footprint induced by the JavaScript run by all the AJAX-like > applications, then the would-be savings may be a mirage. > > It would be unfortunate to go to the effort of building toolchains > around uzbl if it left the *big* problems unsolved. If you want "HTML5"-like functionality with any performance, you'll end up with something the size of Firefox, or Chrome, or Opera (10.5). And most people do seem to want that. The trend is toward Flash-equivalence directly in the browser, plus offline application support, etc. These days that means robust video, 3D, multithreading, web app-accessible in-browser database... Personally I'd rather have a big, open source browser running apps directly than a small browser hosting a suite of closed plugins which then run the apps. That said, I'll take Firefox over Chrome for general browsing any day for one simple reason: You can't build things like adblock and noscript for Chrome. It's not possible -- Chrome's extension mechanism is too anemic by design (for "security" reasons, with convenient side effects for Google's revenue stream). Also, it's not possible to have pervasive, reliable mouse gestures in Chrome (design decision, WONTFIX, etc.). I don't know if there are any really good cookie blockers/managers for Chrome either. Not to mention the other 10 firefox extensions I've really grown to enjoy using. Chrome is amazingly fast and I use it for a handful of computationally heavy apps, but while its multiprocess model is robust, the browser just doesn't offer anywhere near the privacy control and general security that Firefox (+extensions) does. And that's by design. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 3 03:13:13 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 23:13:13 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> <20100701221806.GA4054@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100703031313.GB8254@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 01:14:32PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote > I'm curious as to what happens if you build up a reasonably complete > toolchain around uzbl. Will it bloat in similar ways to FireFox (and, > for that matter, Chrome) if you open a dozen web pages at once? I think that "toolchain" is a misnomer here. It has a specific meaning in the *nix world. The uzbl "toolchain" seems more like your own set of Firefox extensions. > On the other hand, if what's really "eating your lunch" is the memory > footprint induced by the JavaScript run by all the AJAX-like > applications, then the would-be savings may be a mirage. Would you believe... fsync() being called "early and often" to flush SQLite databases, and in the process, *BLOCKING ALL OTHER DISK I/O* for several seconds at a time? For an explanation, see webpage... http://aplawrence.com/Web/firefox-sqlite.html And getting rid of "Abortion-Bar" and returning to the FF2.x auto complete mode (*URLS ONLY*), would by itself be worth the effort as far as I'm concerned. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 3 16:53:06 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 12:53:06 -0400 Subject: what does iwpriv do? Message-ID: hi folks, so, i have a faulty third-party wireless driver from realtek that causes kernel panics on my ubuntu lucid machine. The crash can be triggered manually by running iwpriv -a as root; when running as a normal user, it fails to trigger the crash. I include the output in my latest comment on the bug report, here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/585938/comments/18 ; it's pretty simple though really: lo no private ioctls. eth0 no private ioctls. wlan0 Available read-only private ioctl : wlan0 firm_ver:63 Kernel Panic [etc...] here's my question: how do i figure out what iwpriv is actually doing to trigger this issue -- and is there anything i can do to stop this from happening at othertimes? Anyway, thanks as always to everyone, best, Matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 3 17:45:21 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2010 13:45:21 -0400 Subject: what does iwpriv do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C2F7731.2030706@utoronto.ca> On 07/03/2010 12:53 PM, Matt Price wrote: > hi folks, > > so, i have a faulty third-party wireless driver from realtek that causes > kernel panics on my ubuntu lucid machine. The crash can be triggered > manually by running iwpriv -a as root; when running as a normal user, it > fails to trigger the crash. I include the output in my latest comment on the > bug report, here: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/585938/comments/18 ; > it's pretty simple though really: > > lo no private ioctls. > eth0 no private ioctls. > wlan0 Available read-only private ioctl : > wlan0 firm_ver:63 > Kernel Panic [etc...] > > here's my question: how do i figure out what iwpriv is actually doing to > trigger this issue -- and is there anything i can do to stop this from > happening at othertimes? strace is a start, you can see various calls that a given binary makes and start to narrow down the cause of the panic. Here's an excerpt from "strace iwlist wlan0 scan": ioctl(3, SIOCGIWRANGE, 0x7fff60bb8230) = 0 ioctl(3, SIOCSIWSCAN, 0x7fff60bb8840) = 0 select(0, [], NULL, NULL, {0, 250000}) = 0 (Timeout) brk(0) = 0x1c5f000 brk(0x1c81000) = 0x1c81000 select(0, [], NULL, NULL, {0, 100000}) = 0 (Timeout) ioctl(3, SIOCGIWSCAN, 0x7fff60bb8840) = -1 E2BIG (Argument list too long) ioctl(3, SIOCGIWSCAN, 0x7fff60bb8840) = 0 Then there a bunch of write calls that spit out the list of wireless access points in my vicinity. So you can see that iwlist is calling ioctl, which, via the SIOCGIWSCAN event, asks the wireless driver to return its list of wireless signals. I believe that each driver has its own implementation of calls that are made for SIOCGIWSCAN events depending on the wireless firmware/hardware. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 3 17:53:17 2010 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 13:53:17 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: <20100630231823.GB11868-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100703135317.8ee04c0f.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 19:18:23 -0400 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > Several years ago, AOL basically destroyed Netscape as we knew it, in > the process of trying to turn it into a pseudo-operating system. The > Mozilla foundation had to scrap the Netscape code base entirely and go > back to square one to deliver a *WEB BROWSER*. Walter, I use Opera most of the time at home. I like the user interface. The current version is under the impression that I use it for email, unfortunately. You can always run Epiphany or Galeon. These are Gekko based browsers, effectively making them stripped down versions of Firefox. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 4 02:24:06 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 22:24:06 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: <20100703135317.8ee04c0f.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> <20100703135317.8ee04c0f.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20100704022406.GA3557@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Jul 03, 2010 at 01:53:17PM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote > You can always run Epiphany or Galeon. These are Gekko based > browsers, effectively making them stripped down versions of Firefox. waltdnes at i3 ~ $ USE="gtk python" emerge -pv epiphany [...major snippage...] Total: 48 packages (45 new, 2 in new slots, 1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 44,970 kB waltdnes at i3 ~ $ USE="python" emerge -pv galeon [...major snippage...] Total: 32 packages (29 new, 2 in new slots, 1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 32,771 kB epiphany/galeon dependancies insisted on those specific USE flags. And galeon will not build without dbus, which I have so far kept off my system, along with pam and hal. But that'a another rant. One thing about Gentoo, at least you're never stuck in RPM-dependancy-hell. Portage will build whatever dlls you need. And you also get to see just how much there is. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 4 02:36:25 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2010 22:36:25 -0400 Subject: Creating My DVD Movie Database Message-ID: <4C2FF3A9.5040606@rogers.com> I have about 300 DVD movies. I would like to create a database to support queries. Movie Title Director Actors Themes I will use MySQL. Probably PHP and a web interface. The work I am looking to simplify is the data entry. Specifically the One->Many relationship between movie title and actors. All tables will be normalized, and there will be a relationship table for the movie_id>actor_id. Any all suggestions appreciated. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 4 03:35:18 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 23:35:18 -0400 Subject: Creating My DVD Movie Database In-Reply-To: <4C2FF3A9.5040606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C2FF3A9.5040606@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100703233518.57d7324d.tleslie@tcn.net> why not use sqlite? that way you can drop it down and run it anywhere and not have to worry about setup/admin of a db-server. this is the type of thing sqlite is perfect for. you also don't have to worry about table design for purpose of speed, as with that few records (even if you expanded on it greatly), all your queries will be instant, as it will all cache in ram. tl On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 22:36:25 -0400 Stephen wrote: > I have about 300 DVD movies. > > I would like to create a database to support queries. > > Movie Title > Director > Actors > Themes > > I will use MySQL. > > Probably PHP and a web interface. > > The work I am looking to simplify is the data entry. Specifically the > One->Many relationship between movie title and actors. > > All tables will be normalized, and there will be a relationship table > for the movie_id>actor_id. > > Any all suggestions appreciated. > > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 4 03:33:26 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 23:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: free: two tiny old PCs Message-ID: I have two old PCs that I'm no longer using. I'd love to pass them on to someone who might use them, especially for open source projects. + very small: 23cm wide 7cm high 30cm deep + built like tanks (heavy) + full PCs - old (~PIII 800MHz) + 512M of RAM (if I remember correctly) and 30G hard drives + two PCI slots (but cramped!) + each has a built-in ethernet interface, two PCI NICs, several USBs, VGA, serial, parallel, PS2 keyboard and mouse ports, etc. - quite noisy. That's why I don't use them. The fans are tiny and fast. + they make great gateway computers. I even carried two of them in my suitcase to Helsinki for an IPSec bakeoff. + run Linux well (I haven't tried a recent version) - (if my memory is correct) one has a blown fan in the power supply. And I don't know how to get a power supply for it. They are AT (not ATX) power supplies, but small. So you could probably jury-rig an external AT power supply. - the one with the blown power supply fan is partly disassembled. If nobody wants them, I'll strip them for parts and toss the carcasses. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 4 03:39:13 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2010 23:39:13 -0400 Subject: Creating My DVD Movie Database In-Reply-To: <20100703233518.57d7324d.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <4C2FF3A9.5040606@rogers.com> <20100703233518.57d7324d.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <4C300261.5020509@rogers.com> I know nothing about sqlite other than that it exists. I already have MySQL installed, use it, and know it as well as I need to. I use it as the database for my web sites, and for Mediatomb. Stephen On 10-07-03 11:35 PM, ted leslie wrote: > why not use sqlite? > that way you can drop it down and run it anywhere and not have to worry about setup/admin of a db-server. > this is the type of thing sqlite is perfect for. > > > you also don't have to worry about table design for purpose of speed, as with that few records > (even if you expanded on it greatly), all your queries will be instant, as it will all cache in ram. > > > > tl > > On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 22:36:25 -0400 > Stephen wrote: > > >> I have about 300 DVD movies. >> >> I would like to create a database to support queries. >> >> Movie Title >> Director >> Actors >> Themes >> >> I will use MySQL. >> >> Probably PHP and a web interface. >> >> The work I am looking to simplify is the data entry. Specifically the >> One->Many relationship between movie title and actors. >> >> All tables will be normalized, and there will be a relationship table >> for the movie_id>actor_id. >> >> Any all suggestions appreciated. >> >> Stephen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 4 03:54:00 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 23:54:00 -0400 Subject: Creating My DVD Movie Database In-Reply-To: <4C2FF3A9.5040606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C2FF3A9.5040606@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Stephen wrote: > I have about 300 DVD movies. > > I would like to create a database to support queries. > > Movie Title > Director > Actors > Themes > > I will use MySQL. > > Probably PHP and a web interface. I don't particularly love any of those, but "chacun a son gout" (everyone to his own taste). > The work I am looking to simplify is the data entry. Specifically the > One->Many relationship between movie title and actors. > > All tables will be normalized, and there will be a relationship table for > the movie_id>actor_id. It's well worth looking at library systems, as they have the same sort of hierarchical relationships between works, as publications can have multiple (or unidentified!) authors. Unfortunately, the fact that names can change and are not unique makes things rather messy. There are several people that are somewhat more famous that have my own name, for instance: - The writer of the "Hagar the Horrible" comic (who inherited the mantle from his father, Dik Browne) - If you squint a little at spelling, the R+B singer noted for beating up Rihanna - A notable investor that was one of the first to publicly suspect Lord Conrad of embezzlement You're targeting pretty fuzzy data :-). Part of the question will be what you intend to search on. By the time you create a UI for doing complex queries against actors, directors, and such, you may have something *too* complex to be usable. The alternate direction I'd suggest would be to look at text search options, where the notion would be to bundle up a bunch of movie data together, and do approximate searching, in effect, ala Google. The example I'd point at would be the Postgres text search subsystem: Note that you could start with a normalized data model, and then aggregate data together to generate records for use with text search. I'd expect that to be more usable than the sort of "complex query" screen you get in tools like Bugzilla or RT. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 4 05:27:23 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 01:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Creating My DVD Movie Database In-Reply-To: <4C2FF3A9.5040606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C2FF3A9.5040606@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Stephen | I have about 300 DVD movies. | | I would like to create a database to support queries. | | Movie Title | Director | Actors | Themes When I had 300 books catalogued, I found a flat file + grep to be sufficient. In fact, I still find it OK with 10 times as many catalogued. Mind you, books are perhaps simpler. Data entry is annoying. We use librarything (online cataloguing program), even though this raises privacy concerns. That way we can just scan barcodes and hope. (Actually, ISBNs are not enough to get cataloguing info for all books, not even just ones with ISBNs.) There are similar services for DVDs I think. Try I've just found it via google, so it might not be great. This other one (also found via google) seems to work on Linux, be free, open source, and uses the SQL server of your choice. It claims to suck info from: IMDb, DVD Empire, AnimeDB, Moviefone, Mediadis. For movies, I often want to know about actors and directors of movies I don't own. (I admit that one reason is that I own very few.) I find IMDB quite useful. Where IMDB falls down is that the plot descriptions are too rudimentary. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 4 05:49:34 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 01:49:34 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: <201007022306.21793.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> <201007022306.21793.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20100704054934.GB3557@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 11:06:21PM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote > If you want "HTML5"-like functionality with any performance, you'll > end up with something the size of Firefox, or Chrome, or Opera > (10.5). And most people do seem to want that. Most people want a few specific extras. Those specific extras are different for each person. Microsoft Office got bloated because they added every feature that 1% of their users asked for. Remember the joke about how an elephant is a mouse designed by a committee? At first, the Firefox extensions paradigm held great promise for avoiding that problem. But then the Mozilla developers started building in the functionality of every extension that had more than a few downloads, including spell-check, Google-Gears, database, etc. > Personally I'd rather have a big, open source browser running apps > directly than a small browser hosting a suite of closed plugins > which then run the apps. Non-sequitur. What's wrong with a *SMALL*, open source browser running "helper applications", many of which are available as open source? Got a spreadsheet to edit? Launch Gnumeric/Excel/whatever. Got a fancy document to edit? Launch Word or AbiWord or whatever. But fercryinoutloud, please do *NOT* incorporate Open Office or MS Office or Google Gears into the browser's source code. > The trend is toward Flash-equivalence directly in the browser, plus > offline application support, etc. I agree. That's exactly what I was ranting about. > These days that means... > robust video, 3D Should be an OS implementation, not a browser implementation. > multithreading, Should be an OS implementation, with the browser taking advantage of it. > web app-accessible in-browser database... That's where you lose me. Remember just how "wonderful" Microsoft's web-app accessable ActiveX (aka "Active Hacks") interface was... !NOT. A lot of "web-apps" would be better off with a VT100 (telnet/ssh) or remote desktop or VNC or X-Window interface, rather than a web interface. Secondly, a lot of applications would be better off as "internet-enabled" apps. E.g. you can "mplayer /misc/pornmovie.avi" and you can also do "mplayer http://bad.example.com/misc/pornmovie.avi". The same approach should be implemented for spreadsheets, documents, etc. At work, several years ago, 2 different regional offices used apps by 2 competing contractors. One was a standalone internet-enabled app, the other one was a web-based app. The contractor with the web-based app was always crowing about how "universal" their app was. Then Internet Explorer was upgraded from IE4 to IE5. The web-based app no-longer worked. The standalone internet-enabled app kept humming along. IE6 is still being used in many places, because apps were written to expect it. If web-apps become the norm, watch for extreme breakage with every major web-browser upgrade. And watch also as corporations hang on to old deprecated, insecure, browsers because they have enterprise applications that depend on them. > Not to mention the other 10 firefox extensions I've really grown to > enjoy using. Enjoy the extensions while you can. Most of them will be replaced by built-in code as of Firefox 4. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 4 19:11:25 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 15:11:25 -0400 Subject: Creating My DVD Movie Database In-Reply-To: <4C2FF3A9.5040606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C2FF3A9.5040606@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4C30DCDD.7000908@dinamis.com> On 07/03/2010 10:36 PM, Stephen wrote: > I have about 300 DVD movies. > > I would like to create a database to support queries. > > Movie Title > Director > Actors > Themes > > I will use MySQL. > > Probably PHP and a web interface. You could do that if you want to create more work for yourself, I suppose. > The work I am looking to simplify is the data entry. Specifically the > One->Many relationship between movie title and actors. > > All tables will be normalized, and there will be a relationship table > for the movie_id>actor_id. > > Any all suggestions appreciated. This would make a very good first project in Django . It sounds like you already know what your models are supposed to be. You just have to express them in Python and Django will take care of creating all the necessary database objects and provide an auto-generated admin interface that will enable you to do CRUD (Create, Read, Update, Delete) operations without having to write a single form. You're not stuck with just using MySQL either. By doing nothing more than changing the database connection strings, you can swap out SQLite, PostgreSQL, Oracle, DB/2, or MS SQL Server for MySQL. Django will take care of the rest. Download Django and go through the tutorial. You should be able to build this little app simultaneously with the tutorial. If you get stuck, just ask for help on IRC and/or the mailing list. The community is friendly, knowledgeable, and helpful. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 4 23:18:59 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 19:18:59 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: <20100704054934.GB3557-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> <201007022306.21793.amarjan@pobox.com> <20100704054934.GB3557@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100704231859.GA6096@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jul 04, 2010 at 01:49:34AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 11:06:21PM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote > > Personally I'd rather have a big, open source browser running apps > > directly than a small browser hosting a suite of closed plugins > > which then run the apps. > > Non-sequitur. What's wrong with a *SMALL*, open source browser > running "helper applications", many of which are available as open > source? Got a spreadsheet to edit? Launch Gnumeric/Excel/whatever. > Got a fancy document to edit? Launch Word or AbiWord or whatever. > But fercryinoutloud, please do *NOT* incorporate Open Office or MS > Office or Google Gears into the browser's source code. It's multi-faceted issues: 1. Programmers have to justify their existence by coding something. 2. Salesman have to justify their existence by selling something "new". 3. Users expect something for their upgrade troubles. Unless "powers that be" ban Java, Javascript, 65KB CSS, Frontpage generated HTML templates, you'll always have bloat. :-) -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 5 03:30:01 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 23:30:01 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: <20100704231859.GA6096-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> <201007022306.21793.amarjan@pobox.com> <20100704054934.GB3557@waltdnes.org> <20100704231859.GA6096@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100705033001.GA29871@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Jul 04, 2010 at 07:18:59PM -0400, William Park wrote > Unless "powers that be" ban Java, Javascript, 65KB CSS, Frontpage > generated HTML templates, you'll always have bloat. :-) We can't do anything about bloated web pages, but why do web *BROWSERS* need built-in databases and spellcheckers??? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 5 03:55:04 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 23:55:04 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: <20100705033001.GA29871-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> <201007022306.21793.amarjan@pobox.com> <20100704054934.GB3557@waltdnes.org> <20100704231859.GA6096@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100705033001.GA29871@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Having the history and bookmarks in a sqlite database has speed up Firefox considerably. As for spellcheck why not? It's doesn't take a huge amount of resources to include and it make sure YouTube comments are at least a little bit proof read. You always have the choice to us elinks or lynx. Most websites are now supporting accessibility stuff so we now have entered the golden age of text based browers. Even the new HTML spec has added more support for text based browsers. On Sunday, July 4, 2010, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sun, Jul 04, 2010 at 07:18:59PM -0400, William Park wrote > >> Unless "powers that be" ban Java, Javascript, 65KB CSS, Frontpage >> generated HTML templates, you'll always have bloat. :-) > > ?We can't do anything about bloated web pages, but why do web > *BROWSERS* need built-in databases and spellcheckers??? > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 5 14:01:45 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 10:01:45 -0400 Subject: Any Google Chrome/Chromium or Opera experiences/reviews? In-Reply-To: <20100705033001.GA29871-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100630231823.GB11868@waltdnes.org> <201007022306.21793.amarjan@pobox.com> <20100704054934.GB3557@waltdnes.org> <20100704231859.GA6096@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100705033001.GA29871@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 23:30, Walter Dnes wrote: > ?We can't do anything about bloated web pages, but why do web > *BROWSERS* need built-in databases and spellcheckers??? Because browsers are now application platforms, "the big runtime machine" if you will. I for one have given up several desktop apps for their online version, simply because they're much better in most cases. The fact you have a spellchecker built-in means that when I don have to care about adding that when I'm writing my webapps. The available processing power today is so ridiculous that the "bloat" in a browser like Chrome is not even perceived as that - since it's so ridiculously fast. The same holds true for Opera and Firefox (before you install 23876382764 extensions, of course). - FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 6 01:46:29 2010 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:46:29 -0400 Subject: Good ISP in Toronto Message-ID: <201007052146.29257.marc@lijour.net> Hi, I subscribed to dsl.ca back in the days when I rarely missed a TLUG talk. Since then the company has been bought (a couple of times). For 40$ a month, I had a static IP and the ability to run a couple of servers and to mess with my mail (and spam). Later, istop.com was doing something in the same vein. Is there an offering similar for grabs in Toronto as of today? Thanks Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 6 01:49:27 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:49:27 -0400 Subject: Good ISP in Toronto In-Reply-To: <201007052146.29257.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <201007052146.29257.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: As the coming deluge of replies will echo: Teksavvy. On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi, > > I subscribed to dsl.ca back in the days when I rarely missed a TLUG talk. > Since then the company has been bought (a couple of times). > > For 40$ a month, I had a static IP and the ability to run a couple of servers > and to mess with my mail (and spam). > > Later, istop.com was doing something in the same vein. > > Is there an offering similar for grabs in Toronto as of today? > > Thanks > > Marc > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 6 11:57:58 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 07:57:58 -0400 Subject: what does iwpriv do? In-Reply-To: <4C2F7731.2030706-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C2F7731.2030706@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: jamon, never said thanks for this -- so, as usual, thanks -- very much appreciate your expertise. matt On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 07/03/2010 12:53 PM, Matt Price wrote: > > hi folks, > > > > so, i have a faulty third-party wireless driver from realtek that causes > > kernel panics on my ubuntu lucid machine. The crash can be triggered > > manually by running iwpriv -a as root; when running as a normal user, it > > fails to trigger the crash. I include the output in my latest comment on > the > > bug report, here: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/585938/comments/18; > > it's pretty simple though really: > > > > lo no private ioctls. > > eth0 no private ioctls. > > wlan0 Available read-only private ioctl : > > wlan0 firm_ver:63 > > Kernel Panic [etc...] > > > > here's my question: how do i figure out what iwpriv is actually doing to > > trigger this issue -- and is there anything i can do to stop this from > > happening at othertimes? > > strace is a start, you can see various calls that a given binary makes > and start to narrow down the cause of the panic. Here's an excerpt from > "strace iwlist wlan0 scan": > > ioctl(3, SIOCGIWRANGE, 0x7fff60bb8230) = 0 > ioctl(3, SIOCSIWSCAN, 0x7fff60bb8840) = 0 > select(0, [], NULL, NULL, {0, 250000}) = 0 (Timeout) > brk(0) = 0x1c5f000 > brk(0x1c81000) = 0x1c81000 > > select(0, [], NULL, NULL, {0, 100000}) = 0 (Timeout) > ioctl(3, SIOCGIWSCAN, 0x7fff60bb8840) = -1 E2BIG (Argument list too long) > ioctl(3, SIOCGIWSCAN, 0x7fff60bb8840) = 0 > > Then there a bunch of write calls that spit out the list of wireless > access points in my vicinity. > > So you can see that iwlist is calling ioctl, which, via the SIOCGIWSCAN > event, asks the wireless driver to return its list of wireless signals. > I believe that each driver has its own implementation of calls that are > made for SIOCGIWSCAN events depending on the wireless firmware/hardware. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 6 13:15:32 2010 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 06:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Linux training opportunity in Toronto Message-ID: <432306.74654.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello, There was a recent thread about (the lack of) Linux training opportunities in Toronto. I just turned down one such opportunity because of the commute. It's for basic Red Hat system administration, something like http://www.exitcertified.ca/red-hat-training/red-hat-linux-system-administration-RH131.html Send me a line those interested and I'll forward it to the person in charge. --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 6 13:21:11 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux training opportunity in Toronto In-Reply-To: <432306.74654.qm-DdmFUq92KhX5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <432306.74654.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Fernando Duran wrote: > Hello, > > There was a recent thread about (the lack of) Linux training > opportunities in Toronto. i'm pretty sure i was the one who started that thread and subsequently decided that, rather than keep fighting that battle, i'd just start selling my stuff online. > I just turned down one such opportunity because of the commute. "turned down" as in, you turned down the chance to *take* such a course because of the commute? > It's for basic Red Hat system administration, something like > http://www.exitcertified.ca/red-hat-training/red-hat-linux-system-administration-RH131.html i remember teaching something very much like that once upon a time. ah, the good old days. rday p.s. i think you might be confusing two issues here. my original thread addressed the lack of opportunities to *deliver* linux training courses, not the opportunity to *take* them. -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 6 13:27:34 2010 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 09:27:34 -0400 Subject: Linux training opportunity in Toronto In-Reply-To: <432306.74654.qm-DdmFUq92KhX5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <432306.74654.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C332F46.7070606@cogeco.ca> On 7/6/2010 9:15 AM, Fernando Duran wrote: > > There was a recent thread about (the lack of) Linux training opportunities in > Toronto. I just turned down one such opportunity because of the commute. > > It's for basic Red Hat system administration, something > like http://www.exitcertified.ca/red-hat-training/red-hat-linux-system-administration-RH131.html > > Send me a line those interested and I'll forward it to the person in charge. I'm definately interested depending on the location. Can you provide more details? Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Email: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 6 13:37:20 2010 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 06:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Linux training opportunity in Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <432306.74654.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <461825.87361.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Yes, turned down because of the commute (I'm also in Waterloo) and because I'm very busy. Let me know if you're interested. And yes, I may be confused, I'm always are ;-) Fernando http://fduran.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Robert P. J. Day To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 9:21:11 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux training opportunity in Toronto On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Fernando Duran wrote: > Hello, > > There was a recent thread about (the lack of) Linux training > opportunities in Toronto. i'm pretty sure i was the one who started that thread and subsequently decided that, rather than keep fighting that battle, i'd just start selling my stuff online. > I just turned down one such opportunity because of the commute. "turned down" as in, you turned down the chance to *take* such a course because of the commute? > It's for basic Red Hat system administration, something like >http://www.exitcertified.ca/red-hat-training/red-hat-linux-system-administration-RH131.html >l i remember teaching something very much like that once upon a time. ah, the good old days. rday p.s. i think you might be confusing two issues here. my original thread addressed the lack of opportunities to *deliver* linux training courses, not the opportunity to *take* them. -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 6 13:39:31 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:39:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux training opportunity in Toronto In-Reply-To: <4C332F46.7070606-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <432306.74654.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4C332F46.7070606@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Terry Tanski wrote: > On 7/6/2010 9:15 AM, Fernando Duran wrote: > > > > There was a recent thread about (the lack of) Linux training > > opportunities in Toronto. I just turned down one such opportunity > > because of the commute. > > > > It's for basic Red Hat system administration, something > > like > > http://www.exitcertified.ca/red-hat-training/red-hat-linux-system-administration-RH131.html > > > > Send me a line those interested and I'll forward it to the person in charge. > > I'm definately interested depending on the location. Can you provide > more details? at the risk of blatant self-promotion :-), if you can put together a group as small as 3 who want to take such a course, i could probably deliver an equivalent course at considerably less expense. in fact, i did *exactly* that last fall for a local training provider who used this courseware: http://elementkcourseware.com/searchresults?p_p_id=ekportal2searchresults_WAR_ekportal2&p_p_lifecycle=0&p_p_state=normal&p_p_mode=view&p_p_col_id=column-8&p_p_col_count=1&_ekportal2searchresults_WAR_ekportal2__spage=%2Fportlet_action%2Fekportal2%2Fcatalog%2FproductInfo%2Faction%3Fid%3D60E60282AA583D8FE040007F01004A2B&_ekportal2searchresults_WAR_ekportal2_id=60E60282AA583D8FE040007F01004A2B if you compare, the outlines are fairly similar, the course was advertised as a RHEL course, and the students were, without exception, satisfied. so if any of you folks are seriously looking for linux-related training and you think you can organize a small group of interested students on your own, drop me a note. i can definitely save you some $$$. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 6 13:44:07 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux training opportunity in Toronto In-Reply-To: <461825.87361.qm-2GDYqejlFfL5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <432306.74654.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <461825.87361.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Fernando Duran wrote: > Yes, turned down because of the commute (I'm also in Waterloo) and > because I'm very busy. Let me know if you're interested. And yes, I > may be confused, I'm always are ;-) coincidentally, i'm also in waterloo :-), so everything in my previous post to the TLUG list still applies. if there are enough people in waterloo to make it worth it (and it won't take many to make it worth it), i can teach a course in intro or admin linux, customized the way the students want it. i might tweet about this later today so if you want to follow me on twitter, i'll see if there are others who are also interested. i suspect i could even get my hands on enough spare laptops so that i could provide systems for everyone for the duration of the course. all that would be left to do is find a venue. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 6 13:58:01 2010 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 06:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Linux training opportunity in Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <432306.74654.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <461825.87361.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <436206.32573.qm@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> In case I wasn't clear: I'm not looking for students to attend a course; I'm helping someone find a teacher for a course that I cannot teach myself. --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Robert P. J. Day To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 9:44:07 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux training opportunity in Toronto On Tue, 6 Jul 2010, Fernando Duran wrote: > Yes, turned down because of the commute (I'm also in Waterloo) and > because I'm very busy. Let me know if you're interested. And yes, I > may be confused, I'm always are ;-) coincidentally, i'm also in waterloo :-), so everything in my previous post to the TLUG list still applies. if there are enough people in waterloo to make it worth it (and it won't take many to make it worth it), i can teach a course in intro or admin linux, customized the way the students want it. i might tweet about this later today so if you want to follow me on twitter, i'll see if there are others who are also interested. i suspect i could even get my hands on enough spare laptops so that i could provide systems for everyone for the duration of the course. all that would be left to do is find a venue. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 6 14:31:41 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 10:31:41 -0400 Subject: Good ISP in Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <201007052146.29257.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20100706143141.GN2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 05, 2010 at 09:49:27PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > As the coming deluge of replies will echo: > > Teksavvy. Exactly. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 6 21:04:52 2010 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 14:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: <20100609160850.GF17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100609160850.GF17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <336134.61581.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 6/9/10, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > From: Lennart Sorensen > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? > To: tlug at ss.org > Received: Wednesday, June 9, 2010, 12:08 PM > On Wed, Jun 09, 2010 at 11:51:12AM > -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > > You aren't the only one. I certainly don't "get it". I > went back to > > using grub 1 on both of my machines. > > > > The configuration file for grub 2 seemed exceedingly > complex compared to? > > the simple four line entries of grub 1. Grub 2 > appeared to install, or? > > create, a bunch of .mod files in my /boot partition > and caused problems? > > when doing kernel updates as the .mod files only > allowed me to have 2? > > active kernels with no room for the new (third) one. > The .mod files? > > might have been part of the kernel update process when > using grub 2, but? > > I can't be sure about that. I also read in several > places that you need? > > to run a command after changing the grub 2 > configuration file to make? > > the changes available at the next boot. That smacks of > the bad old days? > > of LILO. At least grub should still give you a command > line so you can? > > enter the commands needed to make the system boot if > you forgot to run? > > the grub update program. > > The .mod files are part of making grub2 much more > robust.? Grub1 used > a black map in the stage1 to load stage2 similar to how > lilo uses > blockmaps to load everything (which makes lilo very much > not robust > against any changes and unable to handle anything at boot > time that wasn't > preconfigured in).? Grub2 embeds the essential modules > into stage1 and > hence doesn't use blockmaps for anything.? Any > additional features are > loaded as modules in stage2 from the filesystem.? This > should make grub2 > completely immune against any filesystem changes or > updates, which grub1 > wasn't for the stage2 file, and lilo isn't for any files it > accesses. > > The modules are also part of having added a ton of new > features and > support for a lot more operating systems.? The old > everything in one > stage2 binary simply wasn't scalable even if you didn't > care about the > robustness issue. > > > With grub 1, if you don't want to automatically boot > into your default? > > OS after a fixed delay, just comment out the "timeout" > line and grub? > > will wait indefinitely. > > And in grub2 just set it to -1 and you get the same thing. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > With virtualization and boot-able USB keys, why add complexity to a boot loader in the first place? EK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 6 22:16:29 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 18:16:29 -0400 Subject: How do you change the boot delay time on GRUB? In-Reply-To: <336134.61581.qm-pKA/D/5TNaL5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20100609160850.GF17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <336134.61581.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100706221629.GO2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 02:04:52PM -0700, E K wrote: > With virtualization and boot-able USB keys, why add complexity to a boot loader in the first place? Why would someone want to need a USB key to boot their machine for normal use? Grub also makes a good boot loader on those USB keys. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 7 12:57:09 2010 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:57:09 -0400 Subject: Recovering a Deleted Open File Message-ID: <4C3479A5.5090400@gmail.com> Hello Everyone, I was gzipping a mammoth tarball and didn't realize that the gzip process had not yet completed before I deleted the original. I'm concerned that the gzip will run out of space, the process will drop its file handle and the file will be freed. So I did a ctrl-z to stop the process, and checked the open files. It's still there, all is good. sooo... how do I give a handle back to /home/mike/Win2k3-d.tar ? gzip Win2k3-d.tar ^Z [1]+ Stopped gzip Win2k3-d.tar mike at x24:~$ su - Password: root at x24:~# lsof | grep Win2k3-d.tar gzip 2700 mike 3r REG 254,1 9011978240 343840 /home/mike/Win2k3-d.tar (deleted) gzip 2700 mike 4w REG 254,1 2097266688 343841 /home/mike/Win2k3-d.tar.gz root at x24:~# (I know there may be better ways to solve the problem, but I heard that this kind of "undelete" was possible, but I've never done it, so it seems like a good thing to try) Thanks, -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 7 13:40:34 2010 From: daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Daniel Hedlund) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 06:40:34 -0700 Subject: Recovering a Deleted Open File In-Reply-To: <4C3479A5.5090400-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3479A5.5090400@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 05:57, Mike Kallies wrote: > I'm concerned that the gzip will run out of space, the process will drop > its file handle and the file will be freed. ?So I did a ctrl-z to stop > the process, and checked the open files. ?It's still there, all is good. The filehandle should only be dropped once gzip is finished using it or gzip itself exits. If you make sure that there is enough space left on the filesystem for it to finish, you should be alright. > sooo... how do I give a handle back to /home/mike/Win2k3-d.tar ? > root at x24:~# lsof | grep Win2k3-d.tar > gzip ? ? ? 2700 ? ? ? ?mike ? ?3r ? ? ?REG ? ? ?254,1 9011978240 > 343840 /home/mike/Win2k3-d.tar (deleted) Open filehandles associated with a process are available in the /proc//fd/ directory: $> ls -l /proc/2700/fd One of the filehandles in the list should show that it points to "/home/mike/Win2k3-d.tar (deleted)". Based on your output of lsof ("3r"), it's going to be filehandle 3. Trying to create a new hardlink to the deleted file descriptor won't work as hard-linking doesn't work across filesystems and the program isn't smart enough to realize the data is actually on the same device. There are programs that can re-establish a link based on an inode number (9011978240 in your case), but I'm not sure of one off the top of my head. The easiest way to get the original file back is going to be making a copy of the file /proc using something like: $> cp /proc/2700/fd/3 /home/mike/Win2k3-d.tar However, if you're concerned about running out of space then you might need to copy the file to another device or make sure you clear enough space. Hope that helps. Daniel Hedlund daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 7 16:05:20 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 12:05:20 -0400 Subject: Recovering a Deleted Open File In-Reply-To: <4C3479A5.5090400-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3479A5.5090400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C34A5C0.10209@utoronto.ca> On 07/07/2010 08:57 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I was gzipping a mammoth tarball and didn't realize that the gzip > process had not yet completed before I deleted the original. > > I'm concerned that the gzip will run out of space, the process will drop > its file handle and the file will be freed. So I did a ctrl-z to stop > the process, and checked the open files. It's still there, all is good. > > sooo... how do I give a handle back to /home/mike/Win2k3-d.tar ? > > gzip Win2k3-d.tar > > ^Z > [1]+ Stopped gzip Win2k3-d.tar Since it is stopped, fg 1 will resume. If you have multiple stopped jobs, use "jobs" to list them. Then use fg # to resume, (where # is the number of the job you want in [] Try it out: start top, ctrl+z it, start another, then run "jobs" to show all three that you have suspended. Use fg 2 to resume the first suspended top, 3 the second, and finally 1 your gzip. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 7 16:15:31 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: for interested parties, RHEL admin-like course coming to TO Message-ID: if you've been thinking of taking a red hat admin course at some point, now's your chance. as a result of that little exchange yesterday on this list, i'm arranging with a technical college in TO to teach a course in the near future that is effectively equivalent to a standard RHEL admin course. at the moment (as i've been told), there are only one or two people scheduled to take this course because it's being done as a favour for a good client of that college so it's going to happen even if it's only one student. but i've been given the go-ahead to mention it if anyone else wants in, and they'd get in under exactly the same terms. the exact outline is still being finalized, the course would take 4 days, and the cost would (as i've been told) *definitely* be less than $2,000 (CAD). as for the actual OS, there's always centos (which i've used before to teach an RHEL course) or, if we decide to get ambitious, the beta of RHEL 6. whoo hoo! whatever people prefer. in any event, still working out the details but that's the big picture. if you want to be kept in the loop and think you might want to take this, drop me a note. as i said, in all likelihood, this course is *going* to happen even for a single student, i'm just opening it up to others. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kshehata-XAaQGU7qChDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 7 18:46:02 2010 From: kshehata-XAaQGU7qChDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 14:46:02 -0400 Subject: Detecting and using wired network when available Message-ID: <1E132173-72B5-4C33-BF6E-58C77DC22CCA@aeryon.com> Hey everyone, Has anyone run into the following problem, and have any solutions? I have an embedded system that has both a wireless link and a wired ethernet connection to the outside world. Normally, we just use the wireless link and set the default gateway to be the router on the wireless side. When the ethernet cable is plugged in, we'd like it to direct traffic by default over the wired connection that isn't destined for a local subnet. I've tried adding both gateways and giving the wireless connection a higher metric number. That works really well when the system is on the wire, but it doesn't adjust the routing when the cable is unplugged. Dmesg shows that the OS detects the cable unplugged, and ethtool shows the state correctly, but it doesn't seem to adjust the state of the interface nor the routing to reflect that. In Mac and Windows it's as easy as giving each interface a gateway and a metric, and the system just figures out which one to use. Any idea how to get Linux to do this? Thanks! Kareem -- Kareem Shehata kshehata-XAaQGU7qChDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Aeryon Labs Inc 519-489-6726 x254 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 8 18:52:57 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:52:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CBC Radio Dispatches on OLPC in Uruguay Message-ID: I just heard an interesting CBC Dispatches piece about schoolkids with laptops (OLPC XO) in Uruguay. The whole show, with other items, can be downloaded: This was a summer repeat. I think that the original broadcast must have been 2009 September 10: -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 8 19:54:45 2010 From: daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Daniel Hedlund) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:54:45 -0700 Subject: Detecting and using wired network when available In-Reply-To: <1E132173-72B5-4C33-BF6E-58C77DC22CCA-XAaQGU7qChDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1E132173-72B5-4C33-BF6E-58C77DC22CCA@aeryon.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 11:46, Kareem Shehata wrote: > Has anyone run into the following problem, and have any solutions? > That works really well when the system is on the wire, but it doesn't adjust the routing when the cable is unplugged. I'm assuming that the you don't have any programs that are monitoring the wired network interface for changes in state; it's just a static IP address that has been created with ifconfig/ip and is never removed or brought down automatically. Are you running any particular distribution/project on the embedded device? I'm not sure what tools are available to you, but check if 'ifplugd' is availabl. It's designed to detect and configure devices when the cable is plugged in and unconfigure it when unplugged. In newer desktop-based distros, ifplugd has been mostly superseded by NetworkManager which I assume won't be available. If you can't find ifplugd, perhaps you can create a script that monitors the network status via ethtool the /sys filesystem (depending on kernel version): /sys/class/net//carrier ("0" or "1") /sys/class/net//operstate ("up", "down" or "unknown") Cheers, Daniel Hedlund daniel-fKF+LmlhkCtg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 8 20:48:32 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:48:32 -0400 Subject: Detecting and using wired network when available In-Reply-To: References: <1E132173-72B5-4C33-BF6E-58C77DC22CCA@aeryon.com> Message-ID: <20100708204832.GP2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 08, 2010 at 12:54:45PM -0700, Daniel Hedlund wrote: > I'm assuming that the you don't have any programs that are monitoring > the wired network interface for changes in state; it's just a static > IP address that has been created with ifconfig/ip and is never removed > or brought down automatically. > > Are you running any particular distribution/project on the embedded > device? I'm not sure what tools are available to you, but check if > 'ifplugd' is availabl. It's designed to detect and configure devices > when the cable is plugged in and unconfigure it when unplugged. In > newer desktop-based distros, ifplugd has been mostly superseded by > NetworkManager which I assume won't be available. > > If you can't find ifplugd, perhaps you can create a script that > monitors the network status via ethtool the /sys filesystem (depending > on kernel version): > /sys/class/net//carrier ("0" or "1") > /sys/class/net//operstate ("up", "down" or "unknown") I think network-manager seems pretty good at switching interfaces on demand if you let if manage all the interfaces. It allows profiles for different interfaces to be setup for when you need a static IP in a certain place, and dhcp for normal use. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 8 21:23:43 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:23:43 -0400 Subject: CBC Radio Dispatches on OLPC in Uruguay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3641DF.6080903@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I just heard an interesting CBC Dispatches piece about schoolkids with > laptops (OLPC XO) in Uruguay. > > > The whole show, with other items, can be downloaded: > I like the (anticipated side-effect) where the father uses the laptop to check produce prices before going to the market. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 00:39:54 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 20:39:54 -0400 Subject: Our internet safe for now Message-ID: <20100709003954.GD28306@waltdnes.org> ISPs not broadcasters, court finds > Creative groups have argued that internet service providers should > contribute to Canadian content creation, the same way traditional > television broadcasters do. > > The Federal Court of Appeal has rejected the notion that internet > service providers are broadcasters, likely ending a plan to introduce > a new levy on internet users to pay for the creation of Canadian > content online. > > The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission in > June asked the court to decide whether ISPs could be governed under > the Broadcast Act, which would therefore require them to contribute to > the creation of Canadian programming, as traditional broadcasters do. More details at... http://www.cbc.ca/m/rich/politics/story/2010/07/07/isp-broadcasting-court-appeal.html I hereby pronounce "Walter's Law"... A sure sign of a failing business model is when a business group asks for an internet tax to support their business. An interesting side-effect of this decision is that it was based on the assumption that ISPs are "dumb pipes". If an ISP attempts to set up a "walled garden", they might be considered broadcasters, along with all the regulatory baggage that entails.. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 11:59:54 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 07:59:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: couple more details on upcoming RHEL admin course in TO Message-ID: this will be the last post i'll make on the topic -- it appears that the RHEL admin course i mentioned in an earlier post is going to happen, it will be 4 days long, it's tentatively scheduled for the last week of july (july 26-30, either first or last four days of that week), and the cost will be $1700 (CAD). i'll be teaching it, we'll be finalizing the outline at some point but it's going to look a lot like any other 4-day RHEL admin course you can find out there from other providers. finally, this is *not* an official red hat course -- it's based on a course i taught previously in which i simply used centos, and it's most likely we'll be using centos 5.5 (although more ambitious students are free to use the second public beta of RHEL 6.0 if they want to live dangerously :-). i'll create a student manual simply by cutting and pasting from publicly available RH docs, and possibly adding an appropriate book. in any event, if you or anyone you know is interested, drop me a note and i'll keep you posted since i won't mention it here again, and thanks for reading. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 12:29:32 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 08:29:32 -0400 Subject: Embedded programmer job Message-ID: Visible assets is looking for someone to do embedded programming on an arm platform. We have a unique RFID like solution that works through metal, water, people, etc. (yes, it really does work, it's not that fast) We are looking for someone with linux C coding skills. Reply to me directly off list if interested. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kshehata-XAaQGU7qChDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 15:25:59 2010 From: kshehata-XAaQGU7qChDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:25:59 -0400 Subject: Detecting and using wired network when available In-Reply-To: References: <1E132173-72B5-4C33-BF6E-58C77DC22CCA@aeryon.com> Message-ID: On 2010-07-08, at 15:54 , Daniel Hedlund wrote: > > I'm assuming that the you don't have any programs that are monitoring > the wired network interface for changes in state; it's just a static > IP address that has been created with ifconfig/ip and is never removed > or brought down automatically. Yup. We have our own scripts that set-and-forget the network config. > Are you running any particular distribution/project on the embedded > device? I'm not sure what tools are available to you, but check if > 'ifplugd' is availabl. It's designed to detect and configure devices > when the cable is plugged in and unconfigure it when unplugged. In > newer desktop-based distros, ifplugd has been mostly superseded by > NetworkManager which I assume won't be available. We use LTIB from Freescale to produce what is essentially a custom build. I don't see a package for ifplugd, but I can probably build it and install it as needed. > If you can't find ifplugd, perhaps you can create a script that > monitors the network status via ethtool the /sys filesystem (depending > on kernel version): > /sys/class/net//carrier ("0" or "1") > /sys/class/net//operstate ("up", "down" or "unknown") Thank for the pointer to those! I'd been looking under /sys/platform/. Would you happen to know how to get udev to respond to changes in the operstate? That would essentially do the trick: a udev rule to trigger a script whenever the link state changes. -kms -- Kareem Shehata kshehata-XAaQGU7qChDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Aeryon Labs Inc 519-489-6726 x254 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 17:40:56 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 13:40:56 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? Message-ID: Hi, I have about $1000 budgeted for a box that will mostly host a bunch of probably-low traffic websites, based on wordpress or maybe sometimes drupal, and some mailing lists. I'm just wondering what sort of features I should aim for in such a box, if I want the hardware to last a couple of years: is onboard RAID important? Is a Xeon processor a big plus, or DDR3 memory? Should I be building the box myself & handpicking the hard drives etc., or are there particular manufacturers/retail outlets I swhould just trust? if i can come in somewhat under $1000, that gives me a little extra money for a backup system and/or UPS, which I might or might not have to purchase out of this budget. Appreciate all the help, as always. Matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 17:47:38 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:47:38 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3760BA.9050003@alteeve.com> On 10-07-09 01:40 PM, Matt Price wrote: > Hi, > > I have about $1000 budgeted for a box that will mostly host a bunch of > probably-low traffic websites, based on wordpress or maybe sometimes drupal, > and some mailing lists. I'm just wondering what sort of features I should > aim for in such a box, if I want the hardware to last a couple of years: is > onboard RAID important? Is a Xeon processor a big plus, or DDR3 memory? > Should I be building the box myself& handpicking the hard drives etc., or > are there particular manufacturers/retail outlets I swhould just trust? > > if i can come in somewhat under $1000, that gives me a little extra money > for a backup system and/or UPS, which I might or might not have to purchase > out of this budget. > > Appreciate all the help, as always. > Matt Pedestal or Rack? What Linux distro/ver? How much anticipated storage space do you need? I/O intensive (sounds like no)? etc. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 17:51:53 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 13:51:53 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100709135153.58c42fac.tleslie@tcn.net> Consider just renting a cloud server. You can get something pretty decent for 20$ a month, and can turn up another (for dev or load) in no time, then turn it down when not needed. Building up a server, unless its for YOUR data center, is SO yesterday :) Now if its for your data center (home?), consider a hp server off ebay. tl On Fri, 9 Jul 2010 13:40:56 -0400 Matt Price wrote: > Hi, > > I have about $1000 budgeted for a box that will mostly host a bunch of > probably-low traffic websites, based on wordpress or maybe sometimes drupal, > and some mailing lists. I'm just wondering what sort of features I should > aim for in such a box, if I want the hardware to last a couple of years: is > onboard RAID important? Is a Xeon processor a big plus, or DDR3 memory? > Should I be building the box myself & handpicking the hard drives etc., or > are there particular manufacturers/retail outlets I swhould just trust? > > if i can come in somewhat under $1000, that gives me a little extra money > for a backup system and/or UPS, which I might or might not have to purchase > out of this budget. > > Appreciate all the help, as always. > Matt > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 18:12:56 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:12:56 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <20100709135153.58c42fac.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100709135153.58c42fac.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <4C3766A8.7040701@alteeve.com> On 10-07-09 01:51 PM, ted leslie wrote: > Consider just renting a cloud server. You can get something pretty decent for 20$ a month, > and can turn up another (for dev or load) in no time, then turn it down when not needed. > Building up a server, unless its for YOUR data center, is SO yesterday :) > > Now if its for your data center (home?), consider a hp server off ebay. > > tl My issue with "the cloud" is that you have to be willing to hand over your data to a third party. I'm not willing to do that, personally. Of course, it's up to Matt to decide. :) If it's for home, you might want to consider a low-power, quiet little machine. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 18:18:20 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:18:20 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <4C3760BA.9050003-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3760BA.9050003@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 10-07-09 01:40 PM, Matt Price wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I have about $1000 budgeted for a box that will mostly host a bunch of >> probably-low traffic websites, based on wordpress or maybe sometimes >> drupal, >> and some mailing lists. I'm just wondering what sort of features I should >> aim for in such a box, if I want the hardware to last a couple of years: >> is >> onboard RAID important? Is a Xeon processor a big plus, or DDR3 memory? >> Should I be building the box myself& handpicking the hard drives etc., or >> are there particular manufacturers/retail outlets I swhould just trust? >> >> if i can come in somewhat under $1000, that gives me a little extra money >> for a backup system and/or UPS, which I might or might not have to >> purchase >> out of this budget. >> >> Appreciate all the help, as always. >> Matt >> > > Pedestal or Rack? > What Linux distro/ver? > How much anticipated storage space do you need? > I/O intensive (sounds like no)? > etc. > Pedestal. Probably running Debian or Ubuntu unless there's a compelling reason to go to something else. Hard to believe we need more than a couple of hundred gigabytes of storage, esp. if most media are hosted on the big social media sites (vimeo, youtube, flickr, etc). I don't think super i/o intensive. share your anxieties about the cloud servers, though ted may be right that it's the easiest solution. thanks, matt > > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From taras-9geWAZNePKkJ92zkyCyiqQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 18:23:42 2010 From: taras-9geWAZNePKkJ92zkyCyiqQ at public.gmane.org (Taras Mankovski) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:23:42 -0400 Subject: Looking for Freelance Junior Linux System Admin Message-ID: Hello Everyone, We're a Web Development company called Positive Sum. We provide web services for Non for Profits and start ups. We're looking for a junior linux admin to take over some of the simpler linux admin tasks. Most of the work is going to be task based, but regular. We also have some linux admin projects that we would like to do to optimize our process. If you're interested in this kind of work, please send me an email. Please, let me know your availability, rate and a little bit about yourself. I'm looking forward to speaking to you, Thank you, Taras http://positivesum.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 18:39:40 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:39:40 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: References: <4C3760BA.9050003@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4C376CEC.8000403@alteeve.com> On 10-07-09 02:18 PM, Matt Price wrote: > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Digimer wrote: > >> On 10-07-09 01:40 PM, Matt Price wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have about $1000 budgeted for a box that will mostly host a bunch of >>> probably-low traffic websites, based on wordpress or maybe sometimes >>> drupal, >>> and some mailing lists. I'm just wondering what sort of features I should >>> aim for in such a box, if I want the hardware to last a couple of years: >>> is >>> onboard RAID important? Is a Xeon processor a big plus, or DDR3 memory? >>> Should I be building the box myself& handpicking the hard drives etc., or >>> are there particular manufacturers/retail outlets I swhould just trust? >>> >>> if i can come in somewhat under $1000, that gives me a little extra money >>> for a backup system and/or UPS, which I might or might not have to >>> purchase >>> out of this budget. >>> >>> Appreciate all the help, as always. >>> Matt >>> >> >> Pedestal or Rack? >> What Linux distro/ver? >> How much anticipated storage space do you need? >> I/O intensive (sounds like no)? >> etc. >> > > Pedestal. Probably running Debian or Ubuntu unless there's a compelling > reason to go to something else. > > Hard to believe we need more than a couple of hundred gigabytes of storage, > esp. if most media are hosted on the big social media sites (vimeo, youtube, > flickr, etc). > > I don't think super i/o intensive. > > share your anxieties about the cloud servers, though ted may be right that > it's the easiest solution. > > thanks, > matt Perhaps something like this: * Antec or Silverstone chassis + PSU (both make nice looking cases and have quality PSUs). I'm particularly fond of Antec's Sonata line. * ASUS ASUS M4A785T-M/CSM (the CSM suffix just indicates that it's guaranteed to be available for a year+). * AMD Athlon 2 X[2..6]. Any part with an 'e' suffix (ie: 600e) is "high-efficiency) and will run at 45w. Personally, I used the Athlon 2 X4 600e. Doubt you want/need quad core though, so any dual-core ###e would be great. * 2x Seagate 1TB drives (ST31000341AS) or 1.5B (ST31500341AS) in *software* RAID 1. There is no benefit to hardware RAID 1 and it binds your array to the hardware. Software you can recover on any machine. * Kingston KVR1333D3N9K2/4G (2x2GB DDR3-1333). If you want 8GB, get two of these. The 8G kit is substantially more expensive that 2x 4G kits. That should fall well under your $1000 range. I know the above hardware works flawlessly under CentOS 5.5, which is about the same vintage as Debian 5. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 18:41:27 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:41:27 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <4C3766A8.7040701-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100709135153.58c42fac.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C3766A8.7040701@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20100709144127.ff5be065.tleslie@tcn.net> Don't hand over anything, just encrypt. I would never hand over may data to a third party either. tl On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:12:56 -0400 Digimer wrote: > On 10-07-09 01:51 PM, ted leslie wrote: > > Consider just renting a cloud server. You can get something pretty decent for 20$ a month, > > and can turn up another (for dev or load) in no time, then turn it down when not needed. > > Building up a server, unless its for YOUR data center, is SO yesterday :) > > > > Now if its for your data center (home?), consider a hp server off ebay. > > > > tl > > My issue with "the cloud" is that you have to be willing to hand over > your data to a third party. I'm not willing to do that, personally. Of > course, it's up to Matt to decide. :) > > If it's for home, you might want to consider a low-power, quiet little > machine. > > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 19:22:27 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:22:27 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100709192227.GQ2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 01:40:56PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > I have about $1000 budgeted for a box that will mostly host a bunch of > probably-low traffic websites, based on wordpress or maybe sometimes drupal, > and some mailing lists. I'm just wondering what sort of features I should > aim for in such a box, if I want the hardware to last a couple of years: is > onboard RAID important? Is a Xeon processor a big plus, or DDR3 memory? > Should I be building the box myself & handpicking the hard drives etc., or > are there particular manufacturers/retail outlets I swhould just trust? Well xeon only really adds multi socket support, so I doubt you need that. Hardware raid is easier to manage when a disk fails, but software works perfectly fine (and in fact often faster). raid1 is often plenty too, unless you need a lot of disk space. raid1 on a pair of 1TB or 1.5TB SATA drives is quite a lot of space after all. As for building, I always do that myself for things in regular cases. For rackmount it becomes much harder (and more expensive too. I don't think you are getting a rackmount server for $1000 at all). DDR3 is more future proof, and will soon (if not already) be cheaper to add more if than DDR2. DDR ram already costs quite a bit more than DDR2 and DDR3 after all, and DDR2 is likely to cost more than DDR3 soon. > if i can come in somewhat under $1000, that gives me a little extra money > for a backup system and/or UPS, which I might or might not have to purchase > out of this budget. Well I am still trying to find a reasonably priced good UPS. So far I think about $300 is the lowest I have found, given it needs real sine wave output when using a proper active PFC power supply. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 19:24:58 2010 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:24:58 -0400 Subject: Netapp Message-ID: <4C37778A.2050301@totaltravelmarketing.com> Hi List, We are currently looking to get some backstorage, and we are looking at netapp, does any body have any comments about this product? Thanks for your comments. Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 19:25:32 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:25:32 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <4C376CEC.8000403-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3760BA.9050003@alteeve.com> <4C376CEC.8000403@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20100709192532.GR2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 02:39:40PM -0400, Digimer wrote: > Perhaps something like this: > > * Antec or Silverstone chassis + PSU (both make nice looking cases and > have quality PSUs). I'm particularly fond of Antec's Sonata line. Those make a big dent in the budget, but they are nice. > * ASUS ASUS M4A785T-M/CSM (the CSM suffix just indicates that it's > guaranteed to be available for a year+). So has ATI finally made a chipset that just works or do they still have piles of ugly quirks required to work properly? > * AMD Athlon 2 X[2..6]. Any part with an 'e' suffix (ie: 600e) is > "high-efficiency) and will run at 45w. Personally, I used the Athlon 2 > X4 600e. Doubt you want/need quad core though, so any dual-core ###e > would be great. > * 2x Seagate 1TB drives (ST31000341AS) or 1.5B (ST31500341AS) in > *software* RAID 1. There is no benefit to hardware RAID 1 and it binds > your array to the hardware. Software you can recover on any machine. > * Kingston KVR1333D3N9K2/4G (2x2GB DDR3-1333). If you want 8GB, get two > of these. The 8G kit is substantially more expensive that 2x 4G kits. > > That should fall well under your $1000 range. I know the above hardware > works flawlessly under CentOS 5.5, which is about the same vintage as > Debian 5. Anyone that has paid attension in the last few years would avoid seagate SATA drives. Yes seagate was once great at making harddrives. They still are to some extent, except they screw up in the places where screw ups shouldn't happen (like firmware). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 19:29:40 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:29:40 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <20100709192532.GR2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3760BA.9050003@alteeve.com> <4C376CEC.8000403@alteeve.com> <20100709192532.GR2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4C3778A4.6040203@alteeve.com> On 10-07-09 03:25 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 02:39:40PM -0400, Digimer wrote: >> Perhaps something like this: >> >> * Antec or Silverstone chassis + PSU (both make nice looking cases and >> have quality PSUs). I'm particularly fond of Antec's Sonata line. > > Those make a big dent in the budget, but they are nice. Perhaps, but a good PSU+chassis will last you through several reiterations of guts. >> * ASUS ASUS M4A785T-M/CSM (the CSM suffix just indicates that it's >> guaranteed to be available for a year+). > > So has ATI finally made a chipset that just works or do they still have > piles of ugly quirks required to work properly? Worked flawlessly for me. >> * AMD Athlon 2 X[2..6]. Any part with an 'e' suffix (ie: 600e) is >> "high-efficiency) and will run at 45w. Personally, I used the Athlon 2 >> X4 600e. Doubt you want/need quad core though, so any dual-core ###e >> would be great. >> * 2x Seagate 1TB drives (ST31000341AS) or 1.5B (ST31500341AS) in >> *software* RAID 1. There is no benefit to hardware RAID 1 and it binds >> your array to the hardware. Software you can recover on any machine. >> * Kingston KVR1333D3N9K2/4G (2x2GB DDR3-1333). If you want 8GB, get two >> of these. The 8G kit is substantially more expensive that 2x 4G kits. >> >> That should fall well under your $1000 range. I know the above hardware >> works flawlessly under CentOS 5.5, which is about the same vintage as >> Debian 5. > > Anyone that has paid attension in the last few years would avoid seagate > SATA drives. > > Yes seagate was once great at making harddrives. They still are to some > extent, except they screw up in the places where screw ups shouldn't > happen (like firmware). Well, I recently got a handful of Western Digital drives and already one is dead (two weeks later). Seagate isn't what they used to be, but the rest of the field is, in my opinion, worse. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 19:33:52 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:33:52 -0400 Subject: Netapp In-Reply-To: <4C37778A.2050301-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <4C37778A.2050301@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Jose wrote: > We are currently looking to get some backstorage, and we are looking at > netapp, does any body have any comments about this product? > > Thanks for your comments. I've heard good things about them; fine products, albeit rather pricey. People are commonly willing to run databases atop NFS on them, which tells me that they've got a mighty good implementation of NFS. They were pioneering (or near so) in making filesystem snapshots visible at Unix level. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 19:41:21 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:41:21 -0400 Subject: Netapp In-Reply-To: <4C37778A.2050301-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <4C37778A.2050301@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <20100709154121.23681a12.tleslie@tcn.net> I bought a 1/4 M$ netapp setup. Dual heads, shelves and such. Rock solid, but very $$$$$ You can find cheap used ones on ebay to get your feet wet with the OS. If your technical , a nice redundant 10gig/ethernet set up running linux would be much better value, but obviously need to look at time and expertise investment tradeoffs. tl On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:24:58 -0400 Jose wrote: > Hi List, > > We are currently looking to get some backstorage, and we are looking at > netapp, does any body have any comments about this product? > > Thanks for your comments. > > Jose > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 19:50:48 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:50:48 -0400 Subject: Netapp In-Reply-To: References: <4C37778A.2050301@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <4C377D98.3010006@utoronto.ca> On 07/09/2010 03:33 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Jose wrote: >> We are currently looking to get some backstorage, and we are looking at >> netapp, does any body have any comments about this product? >> >> Thanks for your comments. > > I've heard good things about them; fine products, albeit rather > pricey. People are commonly willing to run databases atop NFS on > them, which tells me that they've got a mighty good implementation of > NFS. > > They were pioneering (or near so) in making filesystem snapshots > visible at Unix level. An unaffiliated plug for Scalar (a channel reseller for NetApp, EMC etc.) who have an office here in Toronto. They know their stuff. What particular storage unit(s) are you looking at? How long is your deployment expected to last? Are you building a new network? What type of network etc.? Any preexisting equipment that you need to integrate with? My bias with a new deployment that I'm working on is to have lots of cheap fast storage. Any unit from any vendor with 10GbE should have NFS/CIFS, and iSCSI all in one convenient adapter - either copper or fiber depending on the network. Since I'm working with a 10GbE core network, those criterial will be the most future-proof. Also, the performance overhead with iSCSI is not much of an issue now with adapters doing all the TCP work instead of host CPUs. There's a case for straight FC or InfiniBand depending on one's needs, sure, but if you're like me just starting out with a brand new network and storage deployment, the future seems really to be in 10Gbit units on a dollar per GB basis. In the end, the vendor shouldn't matter as much if the equipment fits your requirements. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 9 20:30:22 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:30:22 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <4C3778A4.6040203-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3760BA.9050003@alteeve.com> <4C376CEC.8000403@alteeve.com> <20100709192532.GR2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4C3778A4.6040203@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20100709203022.GS2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 03:29:40PM -0400, Digimer wrote: > Perhaps, but a good PSU+chassis will last you through several > reiterations of guts. True. I do have silverstone cases on all my home machines, although only one uses a silverstone power supply. Silverstone has OK power supplies as well as some great ones, but there are better choices. Same for Antec. > Well, I recently got a handful of Western Digital drives and already one > is dead (two weeks later). Seagate isn't what they used to be, but the > rest of the field is, in my opinion, worse. Western digital has been my choice for a number of years now. Yes a few have failed, but they usually give warning before dying, and their firmware is always fine. I expect a disk to fail occationally. I don't expect firmware that bricks the drive at random or which is incompatible with standards compliant controllers because someone couldn't understand a perfectly well written spec. So based on that Seagate is probably the worst drive maker out there at the moment. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 10 00:00:25 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 20:00:25 -0400 Subject: New Linux OS REMnux Designed For Reverse Engineering Malware Message-ID: Found a link to this on Slashdot, what does everyone think? Here's a brief excerpt: "A security expert has released a stripped-down Ubuntu distribution designed specifically for reverse-engineering malware. The OS, called REMnux, includes a slew of popular malware-analysis, network monitoring and memory forensics tools the comprise a very powerful environment for taking apart malicious code. "Many security professionals who find themselves needing to analyze a specific piece of malware end up in a difficult situation. The classic approach to analyzing malware is to set up a virtual machine on a PC specifically designed for that purpose and then let the malware loose and see what it does. But that usually only shows you part of the picture; much of the malware's behavior can remain hidden without the ability to do some deeper analysis. "And that's exactly what REMnux is designed to do. The OS is a lightweight version of Ubuntu that is distributed as a VMware virtual machine. It can be booted via several VMware products, or through X-Windows." http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/new-linux-os-remnux-designed-reverse-engineering-malware-070910 -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 10 06:32:37 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 02:32:37 -0400 Subject: how should I implement dynamic subdomains? Message-ID: <4C381405.3080608@rogers.com> On some sites (e.g. foobar.com, for illustrative purposes), you register a new user (e.g. trythis). A bunch of stuff is done behind the scenes. Then you end up at a brand new subdomain called trythis.foobar.com I want to implement something like this on a Ubuntu server with Apache2. Does anyone have any pointers on how to go about doing it? TIA. -- Yanni -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 10 07:40:58 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 03:40:58 -0400 Subject: how should I implement dynamic subdomains? In-Reply-To: <4C381405.3080608-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C381405.3080608@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100710034058.a01ab925.tleslie@tcn.net> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcard_DNS_record http://allyourtech.com/content/articles/25_11_2005_setting_up_wildcard_subdomains_on_apache.php http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/358 tl On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 02:32:37 -0400 Yanni Chiu wrote: > On some sites (e.g. foobar.com, for illustrative purposes), you register > a new user (e.g. trythis). A bunch of stuff is done behind the scenes. > Then you end up at a brand new subdomain called trythis.foobar.com > > I want to implement something like this on a Ubuntu server with Apache2. > Does anyone have any pointers on how to go about doing it? > > TIA. > > -- > Yanni > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 10 08:29:25 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 04:29:25 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: References: <4C3760BA.9050003@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20100710082925.GA3031@waltdnes.org> On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 02:18:20PM -0400, Matt Price wrote > Probably running Debian or Ubuntu unless there's a compelling reason > to go to something else. A server will probably be only dispensing files, so it doesn't need to get bogged down with a GUI. I believe you can turn off X (not just switch to a text terminal) in Debian, and uninstall it altogether. > Hard to believe we need more than a couple of hundred gigabytes of > storage, esp. if most media are hosted on the big social media sites > (vimeo, youtube, flickr, etc). Does the facility have the space/electrical plugs to add an external USB drive later, or would you be looking at installing another internal drive if you needed more space later? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 10 14:42:27 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:42:27 -0400 Subject: how should I implement dynamic subdomains? In-Reply-To: <20100710034058.a01ab925.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <4C381405.3080608@rogers.com> <20100710034058.a01ab925.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <4C3886D3.5060308@rogers.com> Thanks. That's a lot easier than what I was thinking about - run a DNS, update the DNS records, then refresh. I think that I will still have to update/refresh the Apache2 configuration (using a2ensite), since I want to serve each new domain on a different portno. These servers would be started/stopped on demand. Any suggestions on this aspect? Otherwise, I'm thinking that I need to write a few scripts. ted leslie wrote: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcard_DNS_record > http://allyourtech.com/content/articles/25_11_2005_setting_up_wildcard_subdomains_on_apache.php > http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/358 > > tl > > > On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 02:32:37 -0400 > Yanni Chiu wrote: > >> On some sites (e.g. foobar.com, for illustrative purposes), you register >> a new user (e.g. trythis). A bunch of stuff is done behind the scenes. >> Then you end up at a brand new subdomain called trythis.foobar.com >> >> I want to implement something like this on a Ubuntu server with Apache2. >> Does anyone have any pointers on how to go about doing it? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 10 16:53:40 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:53:40 -0400 Subject: how should I implement dynamic subdomains? In-Reply-To: <4C3886D3.5060308-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C381405.3080608@rogers.com> <20100710034058.a01ab925.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C3886D3.5060308@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100710125340.741c63f0.tleslie@tcn.net> different port number? why? visitors from offices with firewalls with only 80,443 open will not be able to reach your sites. tl On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:42:27 -0400 Yanni Chiu wrote: > Thanks. That's a lot easier than what I was thinking about - run a DNS, > update the DNS records, then refresh. > > I think that I will still have to update/refresh the Apache2 > configuration (using a2ensite), since I want to serve each new domain on > a different portno. These servers would be started/stopped on demand. > Any suggestions on this aspect? Otherwise, I'm thinking that I need to > write a few scripts. > > > ted leslie wrote: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcard_DNS_record > > http://allyourtech.com/content/articles/25_11_2005_setting_up_wildcard_subdomains_on_apache.php > > http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/358 > > > > tl > > > > > > On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 02:32:37 -0400 > > Yanni Chiu wrote: > > > >> On some sites (e.g. foobar.com, for illustrative purposes), you register > >> a new user (e.g. trythis). A bunch of stuff is done behind the scenes. > >> Then you end up at a brand new subdomain called trythis.foobar.com > >> > >> I want to implement something like this on a Ubuntu server with Apache2. > >> Does anyone have any pointers on how to go about doing it? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 10 17:35:08 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:35:08 -0400 Subject: how should I implement dynamic subdomains? In-Reply-To: <4C3886D3.5060308-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C381405.3080608@rogers.com> <20100710034058.a01ab925.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C3886D3.5060308@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4C38AF4C.3070707@utoronto.ca> On 07/10/2010 10:42 AM, Yanni Chiu wrote: > Thanks. That's a lot easier than what I was thinking about - run a DNS, > update the DNS records, then refresh. > > I think that I will still have to update/refresh the Apache2 > configuration (using a2ensite), since I want to serve each new domain on > a different portno. These servers would be started/stopped on demand. > Any suggestions on this aspect? Otherwise, I'm thinking that I need to > write a few scripts. That seems terribly inefficient, forking or restarting incurs a large performance penalty. Using the application you're deploying to handle new subdomains instead of reloading Apache would be easier. For example, Drupal, Wordpress etc. have multi-site support that runs off a single codebase. That way you can have a static Apache VirtualHost for *.foo.com and let your application handle the logic or serving up particular subdomains. It also keeps things limited to ports 80 and 443 as Ted Leslie pointed out. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 11 05:02:47 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 01:02:47 -0400 Subject: how should I implement dynamic subdomains? In-Reply-To: <20100710125340.741c63f0.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <4C381405.3080608@rogers.com> <20100710034058.a01ab925.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C3886D3.5060308@rogers.com> <20100710125340.741c63f0.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <4C395077.1010207@rogers.com> ted leslie wrote: > different port number? why? visitors from offices with firewalls with > only 80,443 open will not be able to reach your sites. > I wasn't clear. I want to fire up a series of application servers, each listening on a different portno. Apache would rewrite the url to localhost:portno based on the subdomain. So, trythis.foobar.com would be served by an app server listening at localhost:portno, where portno is specific to 'trythis'. Visitors would still hit port 80, but Apache would proxy it. The a2ensite file for trythis.foobar.com would have something like: ProxyVia Block ProxyPreserveHost On RewriteEngine On RewriteRule ^/(.*)$ http://localhost:8080/$1 [proxy,last] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 11 05:27:38 2010 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 01:27:38 -0400 Subject: how should I implement dynamic subdomains? In-Reply-To: <4C38AF4C.3070707-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C381405.3080608@rogers.com> <20100710034058.a01ab925.tleslie@tcn.net> <4C3886D3.5060308@rogers.com> <4C38AF4C.3070707@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4C39564A.9030504@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > That seems terribly inefficient, forking or restarting incurs a large > performance penalty. Each app server would be started on demand, and self-terminate when inactive. At this point, making my app server support multiple sites seems harder than kicking off instances for each site. > Using the application you're deploying to handle new subdomains instead > of reloading Apache would be easier. For example, Drupal, Wordpress etc. > have multi-site support that runs off a single codebase. Okay, I'll look into how they support multi-site. > That way you can have a static Apache VirtualHost for *.foo.com and let > your application handle the logic or serving up particular subdomains. > It also keeps things limited to ports 80 and 443 as Ted Leslie pointed out. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 11 16:38:02 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 12:38:02 -0400 Subject: Anyone tried built-in raid in P55/Q57 chipset? Message-ID: <20100711163802.GA4439@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi all, Since my Asus M2N-E (nForce 570 Ultra chipset) comes with "NVidia MediaShield RAID", I thought to try it finally. BIOS sets up raid, but Linux just sees individual disks. How about Intel side? Has anyone tried built-in raid in Intel P55/Q57 chipset? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 11 20:46:34 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 16:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: display resolution Message-ID: It seems that xorg.config is considered optional and even a bad idea. Without it, xorg seems to get display resolution (in the sense of dpi (dots per inch)) wrong. For example, my Thinkpad X61 has a screen with 1400x1050 pixels and X figures this out from EDID. It also sees this (which is correct): [ 33.901] (II) intel(0): Max Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 25 vert.: 18 So my screen is 150 DPI. But X thinks it is 96 DPI. I can change that by saying xrandr --dpy 150 or adding a Monitor section to my (so far non-existant) xorg.config: Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor0" DisplaySize 250 180 # In millimeters EndSection There is no GUI way in the obvious place on Fedora 13: System: Preferences: Monitors. This seems dumb since the information is useful and discoverable. Am I missing something? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 11 21:01:11 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 17:01:11 -0400 Subject: display resolution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3A3117.2090608@utoronto.ca> On 07/11/2010 04:46 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > It seems that xorg.config is considered optional and even a bad idea. > > Without it, xorg seems to get display resolution (in the sense of dpi > (dots per inch)) wrong. > > For example, my Thinkpad X61 has a screen with 1400x1050 pixels and X > figures this out from EDID. It also sees this (which is correct): > > [ 33.901] (II) intel(0): Max Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 25 vert.: 18 > > So my screen is 150 DPI. But X thinks it is 96 DPI. I can change that by > saying > xrandr --dpy 150 > or adding a Monitor section to my (so far non-existant) xorg.config: > Section "Monitor" > Identifier "Monitor0" > DisplaySize 250 180 # In millimeters > EndSection > > There is no GUI way in the obvious place on Fedora 13: System: > Preferences: Monitors. > > This seems dumb since the information is useful and discoverable. Take a look at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_xorg.conf That page notes that "The X configuration is automatically determined each time X is started. In most cases, this works well and there is no need to manually specify X configuration information." I guess your case is one of the not-most-cases ;) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 12 15:33:35 2010 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:33:35 -0400 Subject: Netapp In-Reply-To: <4C377D98.3010006-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C37778A.2050301@totaltravelmarketing.com> <4C377D98.3010006@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4C3B35CF.4000108@totaltravelmarketing.com> On 7/9/2010 3:50 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 07/09/2010 03:33 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Jose wrote: >>> We are currently looking to get some backstorage, and we are looking at >>> netapp, does any body have any comments about this product? >>> >>> Thanks for your comments. >> >> I've heard good things about them; fine products, albeit rather >> pricey. People are commonly willing to run databases atop NFS on >> them, which tells me that they've got a mighty good implementation of >> NFS. >> >> They were pioneering (or near so) in making filesystem snapshots >> visible at Unix level. > > An unaffiliated plug for Scalar (a channel reseller for NetApp, EMC > etc.) who have an office here in Toronto. They know their stuff. > > What particular storage unit(s) are you looking at? How long is your > deployment expected to last? Are you building a new network? What type > of network etc.? Any preexisting equipment that you need to integrate with? > > My bias with a new deployment that I'm working on is to have lots of > cheap fast storage. > > Any unit from any vendor with 10GbE should have NFS/CIFS, and iSCSI all > in one convenient adapter - either copper or fiber depending on the > network. Since I'm working with a 10GbE core network, those criterial > will be the most future-proof. > > Also, the performance overhead with iSCSI is not much of an issue now > with adapters doing all the TCP work instead of host CPUs. > > There's a case for straight FC or InfiniBand depending on one's needs, > sure, but if you're like me just starting out with a brand new network > and storage deployment, the future seems really to be in 10Gbit units on > a dollar per GB basis. > > In the end, the vendor shouldn't matter as much if the equipment fits > your requirements. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Hi Is more of a migration, with most of the clients connecting using iSCSI, but we are more intrigued about performance with Oracle and MSSQL databases, there not much info about that topics, we heard that most people only have them as developer or test environments but no for production. As per the unit, may be one of their FAS series, but I couldn't tell which one at the moment. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 12 18:06:03 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:06:03 -0400 Subject: Anyone tried built-in raid in P55/Q57 chipset? In-Reply-To: <20100711163802.GA4439-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100711163802.GA4439@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100712180603.GT2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 12:38:02PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Since my Asus M2N-E (nForce 570 Ultra chipset) comes with "NVidia > MediaShield RAID", I thought to try it finally. BIOS sets up raid, but > Linux just sees individual disks. > > How about Intel side? Has anyone tried built-in raid in Intel P55/Q57 > chipset? My wife's desktop runs build-in raid on an Intel X58. Installing the bootloader was a @#$@#$@#$ pain in the ass (and I had to use grub 1. grub 2 does not currently work with it and neither does lilo apparently). dmraid and boot support is basicly a pain right now. dmraid itself is however just fine. I recently tried to get grub 2 to work with dmraid and after poking at it occationalyl for a few weeks stooped bothering and used standard linux soft raid1 and installed grub2 to both MBRs. It works. The only reason for using dmraid is to have dual boot with windows and using raid with windows on the same disks (which is why my wife's desktop is using it. It also has windows 7 installed). You do not gain any performance using the onboard fakeraid through dmraid compared to md software raid. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 12 18:13:10 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:13:10 -0400 Subject: display resolution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100712181310.GU2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 04:46:34PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > It seems that xorg.config is considered optional and even a bad idea. > > Without it, xorg seems to get display resolution (in the sense of dpi > (dots per inch)) wrong. > > For example, my Thinkpad X61 has a screen with 1400x1050 pixels and X > figures this out from EDID. It also sees this (which is correct): > > [ 33.901] (II) intel(0): Max Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 25 vert.: 18 > > So my screen is 150 DPI. But X thinks it is 96 DPI. I can change that by > saying > xrandr --dpy 150 > or adding a Monitor section to my (so far non-existant) xorg.config: > Section "Monitor" > Identifier "Monitor0" > DisplaySize 250 180 # In millimeters > EndSection > > There is no GUI way in the obvious place on Fedora 13: System: > Preferences: Monitors. > > This seems dumb since the information is useful and discoverable. > > Am I missing something? What version is your intel xserver? There was a bug a couple of years ago that made the intel driver misread the DDC info and completely mess up the DPI detection. What is the full output of /var/log/Xorg.0.log? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 12 18:14:03 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:14:03 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <20100710082925.GA3031-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3760BA.9050003@alteeve.com> <20100710082925.GA3031@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100712181403.GV2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 04:29:25AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > A server will probably be only dispensing files, so it doesn't need to > get bogged down with a GUI. I believe you can turn off X (not just > switch to a text terminal) in Debian, and uninstall it altogether. Debian doesn't even install X by default, unless you ask it to install Graphical Desktop in the task selector. > Does the facility have the space/electrical plugs to add an external > USB drive later, or would you be looking at installing another internal > drive if you needed more space later? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 12 18:39:45 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:39:45 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <20100712181403.GV2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3760BA.9050003@alteeve.com> <20100710082925.GA3031@waltdnes.org> <20100712181403.GV2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4C3B6171.4060609@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 04:29:25AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > >> A server will probably be only dispensing files, so it doesn't need to >> get bogged down with a GUI. I believe you can turn off X (not just >> switch to a text terminal) in Debian, and uninstall it altogether. >> > > Debian doesn't even install X by default, unless you ask it to install > Graphical Desktop in the task selector. > > IIRC, you have to install basic X support, if you want to run certain apps remotely via ssh. Wireshark comes to mind as one you might want to use. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 12 19:30:45 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:30:45 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <4C3B6171.4060609-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3760BA.9050003@alteeve.com> <20100710082925.GA3031@waltdnes.org> <20100712181403.GV2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4C3B6171.4060609@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100712193045.GW2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 02:39:45PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > IIRC, you have to install basic X support, if you want to run certain > apps remotely via ssh. Wireshark comes to mind as one you might want to > use. Only xlibs. No x server required. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 12 19:32:40 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: display resolution In-Reply-To: <20100712181310.GU2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100712181310.GU2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | What version is your intel xserver? There was a bug a couple of years | ago that made the intel driver misread the DDC info and completely mess | up the DPI detection. | | What is the full output of /var/log/Xorg.0.log? I'm typing this on the train to the Linux Symposium. See you there? xdpyinfo says: dimensions: 1400x1050 pixels (370x277 millimeters) resolution: 96x96 dots per inch depths (7): 24, 1, 4, 8, 15, 16, 32 xrandr -q says: LVDS1 connected 1400x1050+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 245mm x 184mm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 12 20:32:05 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:32:05 -0400 Subject: display resolution In-Reply-To: References: <20100712181310.GU2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100712203205.GX2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 03:32:40PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > | What version is your intel xserver? There was a bug a couple of years > | ago that made the intel driver misread the DDC info and completely mess > | up the DPI detection. > | > | What is the full output of /var/log/Xorg.0.log? > > > > I'm typing this on the train to the Linux Symposium. See you there? Nope. I ended up not having time to go this year. Darn. > xdpyinfo says: > dimensions: 1400x1050 pixels (370x277 millimeters) > resolution: 96x96 dots per inch > depths (7): 24, 1, 4, 8, 15, 16, 32 > > xrandr -q says: > LVDS1 connected 1400x1050+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 245mm x 184mm Well the logs certainly show that it got the DPI right. Perhaps kde/gnome is messing with the setting when you login. Certainly gnome has a DPI setting in a few places (fonts for exanmple) and defaults to 96dpi as far as I know. I currently am running kde 4.4 on Debian unstable and my dpi in xpdyinfo shows 95x93 which is right for this screen. But that's on an nvidia driver, not intel. Would be interesting to try creating a .xsession with just 'xterm' in it to run and starting that session and running xpdyinfo. Then you are sure nothing could have messed with the detected default. If it says 96, then there is a driver bug. If it doesn't, then your desktop software (gnome/kde/etc) is messing with it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 12 23:56:48 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:56:48 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100712235648.GA4037@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 01:40:56PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > Hi, > > I have about $1000 budgeted for a box that will mostly host a bunch of > probably-low traffic websites, based on wordpress or maybe sometimes drupal, > and some mailing lists. I'm just wondering what sort of features I should > aim for in such a box, if I want the hardware to last a couple of years: is > onboard RAID important? Is a Xeon processor a big plus, or DDR3 memory? > Should I be building the box myself & handpicking the hard drives etc., or > are there particular manufacturers/retail outlets I swhould just trust? > > if i can come in somewhat under $1000, that gives me a little extra money > for a backup system and/or UPS, which I might or might not have to purchase > out of this budget. > > Appreciate all the help, as always. > Matt Good timing, since I'm also considering upgrade. Here is my list... - Xeon X3430 2.4GHz (similar to i5-750) $215 (infonec.ca) - Intel ATX motherboard DP55WG $160 (infonec.ca) - OCZ DDR3-1600 Intel XMP 4GB $110 (infonec.ca) - Cooler Master Silent Pro M500 psu $ 60 (canadacomputers.com) - Cooler Master 690 II Basic mid-tower $ 80 (canadacomputers.com) - Samsung 1TB 7200rpm Spinpoint F1 (boot) $ 65 (infonec.ca) - WD 2TB 5400prm Green (backup) $120 (canadacomputers.com) - DVD $ 25 -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 02:41:14 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Recommendations for insurance for independent contractor Message-ID: Hi all. I'm in the market for insurance as an independent contractor and I've love some recommendations. I'm interested: * Indemnity insurance * Errors and Ommissions insurance * Health insurance Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Linux counter ID #16440 IRC: Solver (OFTC & Freenode) Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 03:34:45 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:34:45 -0400 Subject: Running 2 ssh servers? Message-ID: <20100713033445.GA7519@yam.witteman.ca> I decided to get a WD MyBook as a home NAS, and it works, and through the good people at nslu2 and here [1], I've installed a nice set of 'real' software on the machine. Most things I need are working fine, save one. The ssh that is installed by default is ancient and doesn't behave like the modern ssh daemon. What I'd like to do is leave the default ssh running on port 22 (so I can't accidentally lock myself out of the box (tiresome)) and run the modern version on another port. The problem is, I don't know how to set up new scripts in /etc/init.d This machine uses the convention of S$$daemon as the script names in /etc/init.d, if that helps. Also, if there are services I don't want to run, can I change the "S" to a "K"? Thanks. [1] http://mybookworld.wikidot.com/optware -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 10:00:32 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:00:32 -0400 Subject: best linux netbook Message-ID: I have an upcoming trip next week and I' need a netbook for it. recommendations for linux netbook, or even small laptop ? Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 10:21:10 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: best linux netbook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jul 2010, Dave Cramer wrote: > I have an upcoming trip next week and I' need a netbook for it. > recommendations for linux netbook, or even small laptop ? not a *specific* recommendation, but i've bought my last several laptops refurbished from tigerdirect.ca and never had a problem, and it's always saved me a pile of cash. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 11:52:47 2010 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:52:47 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for insurance for independent contractor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100713115247.GA18084@watson-wilon.ca> Are you dealing direct with your customer or through an agency? If though an agency then they should cover the insurance unless they are very cheap. For health insurance I would go to the same corps that supply for full timers. It will likely cost you and at least some of it is not a tax write-off. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 13:18:09 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:18:09 -0400 Subject: best linux netbook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3C6791.8040907@alteeve.com> On 10-07-13 06:00 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > I have an upcoming trip next week and I' need a netbook for it. > recommendations for linux netbook, or even small laptop ? > > Dave The ASUS Eee line has run Linux well. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 13:30:22 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:30:22 -0400 Subject: best linux netbook In-Reply-To: <4C3C6791.8040907-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3C6791.8040907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: One thing I forgot, it cannot have a camera at all. I need to go into a secure facilty. Dave On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Digimer wrote: > On 10-07-13 06:00 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: >> >> I have an upcoming trip next week and I' need a netbook for it. >> recommendations for linux netbook, or even small laptop ? >> >> Dave > > The ASUS Eee line has run Linux well. > > -- > Digimer > E-Mail: ? ? ? ? linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org > AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com > Node Assassin: ?http://nodeassassin.org > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 14:19:44 2010 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:19:44 -0400 Subject: best linux netbook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3C7600.3040904@the-wire.com> Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jul 2010, Dave Cramer wrote: > >> I have an upcoming trip next week and I' need a netbook for it. >> recommendations for linux netbook, or even small laptop ? > > not a *specific* recommendation, but i've bought my last several > laptops refurbished from tigerdirect.ca and never had a problem, and > it's always saved me a pile of cash. Ditto, or from laptopcloseouts, or from sonnam. Refurbished laptops are all over the market. Also seen at modcom in Markham and mtsystems in Thornhill. Personally I seem to have good luck with HP/Compaqs. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 15:21:20 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:21:20 -0400 Subject: Running 2 ssh servers? In-Reply-To: <20100713033445.GA7519-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100713033445.GA7519@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4C3C8470.3040909@ve3syb.ca> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > The problem is, I don't know how to set up new scripts in /etc/init.d > This machine uses the convention of S$$daemon as the script names in > /etc/init.d, if that helps. > > Also, if there are services I don't want to run, can I change the "S" to > a "K"? The sshd under Ubuntu takes a -f option to specify where to find the config file. The default is /etc/ssh/sshd_config. Take a look for a program called "chkconfig". It will let you manage the K/S links and what starts up and what doesn't. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 16:02:47 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:02:47 -0400 Subject: best linux netbook In-Reply-To: References: <4C3C6791.8040907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: A used IBM ThinkPad X31 or a T**. Most used computer shops have them. On Tuesday, July 13, 2010, Dave Cramer wrote: > One thing I forgot, it cannot have a camera at all. I need to go into > a secure facilty. > > Dave > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Digimer wrote: >> On 10-07-13 06:00 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: >>> >>> I have an upcoming trip next week and I' need a netbook for it. >>> recommendations for linux netbook, or even small laptop ? >>> >>> Dave >> >> The ASUS Eee line has run Linux well. >> >> -- >> Digimer >> E-Mail: ? ? ? ? linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org >> AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com >> Node Assassin: ?http://nodeassassin.org >> >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 16:21:52 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:21:52 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <20100712235648.GA4037-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100712235648.GA4037@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100713162152.GY2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 07:56:48PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Good timing, since I'm also considering upgrade. Here is my list... > > - Xeon X3430 2.4GHz (similar to i5-750) $215 (infonec.ca) > - Intel ATX motherboard DP55WG $160 (infonec.ca) I have seen so many horror stories about intel boards that they would never be on my list. Intel is probably the slowest of all companies to fix major BIOS issues, and the one intel board I have dealt with in the past didn't even last 12 months before it died. So intel boards do not equal quality to me. Good chips, crappy board and BIOS. > - OCZ DDR3-1600 Intel XMP 4GB $110 (infonec.ca) > - Cooler Master Silent Pro M500 psu $ 60 (canadacomputers.com) > - Cooler Master 690 II Basic mid-tower $ 80 (canadacomputers.com) > - Samsung 1TB 7200rpm Spinpoint F1 (boot) $ 65 (infonec.ca) > - WD 2TB 5400prm Green (backup) $120 (canadacomputers.com) > - DVD $ 25 Everything else looks perfectly nice (assuming the M500 is similar to the M600, which it almost certainly is). No idea about sansumg harddisks. I haven't seen one in about a decade. Back then it was pretty sad, but that was a different era. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 16:23:25 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:23:25 -0400 Subject: best linux netbook In-Reply-To: <4C3C6791.8040907-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3C6791.8040907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20100713162325.GZ2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 09:18:09AM -0400, Digimer wrote: > The ASUS Eee line has run Linux well. At least eventually. Some models were trickier than others due to new chips that didn't have support yet. The 1005HA and 1008HA certainly seem to work well with a recent kernel. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 16:24:19 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:24:19 -0400 Subject: best linux netbook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100713162419.GA2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 06:00:32AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > I have an upcoming trip next week and I' need a netbook for it. > recommendations for linux netbook, or even small laptop ? What do you need it to do? How fast does it have to be? How much battery life? How big a screen do you need? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 16:45:03 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:45:03 -0400 Subject: best linux netbook In-Reply-To: <20100713162419.GA2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100713162419.GA2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: What I need more than anything is for it not to have a camera, and run linux. I'll be using a browser to get email, and need ssh. Doesn't have to do much. Dave On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 06:00:32AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >> I have an upcoming trip next week and I' need a netbook for it. >> recommendations for linux netbook, or even small laptop ? > > What do you need it to do? ?How fast does it have to be? ?How much > battery life? ?How big a screen do you need? > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 17:38:14 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:38:14 -0400 Subject: best linux netbook In-Reply-To: References: <20100713162419.GA2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100713173814.GB2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:45:03PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > What I need more than anything is for it not to have a camera, and run linux. > > I'll be using a browser to get email, and need ssh. > > Doesn't have to do much. Well you could get something like a thinkpad SL410 or SL510. They can be customized however you want (webcam is a $30 option so you don't have to get it). I have an SL500 and it works great with linux (although I did explicitly upgrade the wifi to the intel 5100 when I ordered it, and highly recommend doing so). Of course a custom ordered thinkpad takes a week or two to arrive, so if you need it by the weekend, that doesn't work. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 17:38:46 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:38:46 -0400 Subject: best linux netbook In-Reply-To: <20100713173814.GB2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100713162419.GA2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100713173814.GB2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100713173846.GC2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 01:38:14PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:45:03PM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > > What I need more than anything is for it not to have a camera, and run linux. > > > > I'll be using a browser to get email, and need ssh. > > > > Doesn't have to do much. > > Well you could get something like a thinkpad SL410 or SL510. They can > be customized however you want (webcam is a $30 option so you don't have > to get it). I have an SL500 and it works great with linux (although I > did explicitly upgrade the wifi to the intel 5100 when I ordered it, > and highly recommend doing so). > > Of course a custom ordered thinkpad takes a week or two to arrive, > so if you need it by the weekend, that doesn't work. As for netbooks, as far as I can find, every netbook has a webcam these days. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 19:15:39 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:15:39 -0400 Subject: Possible hacking on SSH what should I do? Message-ID: Some one from a French IP is trying to access one of my servers: Jul 13 15:05:30 fox sshd[1866]: reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo for 23-194.213-56.static-ip.oleane.fr [213.56.194.23] failed - POSSIBLE BREAK-IN ATTEMPT! They probably wont be able to get in (I use only ssh keys access) but what is the best procedure to stop from getting further. Should I contact the ISP? Should I ban him under '/etc/hosts.deny'? -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 19:30:24 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:30:24 -0400 Subject: Possible hacking on SSH what should I do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3CBED0.7010702@utoronto.ca> On 07/13/2010 03:15 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Some one from a French IP is trying to access one of my servers: > > Jul 13 15:05:30 fox sshd[1866]: reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo > for 23-194.213-56.static-ip.oleane.fr [213.56.194.23] failed - > POSSIBLE BREAK-IN ATTEMPT! > > They probably wont be able to get in (I use only ssh keys access) but > what is the best procedure to stop from getting further. > > Should I contact the ISP? > Should I ban him under '/etc/hosts.deny'? fail2ban or denyhosts are good tools for that. I also use knockd for host servers. Unless someone knows the different UDP and TCP packet sequences to unlock iptables (I use 5 packets), ssh is completely invisible. Security through obscurity, yes, but if you don't know that ssh is listening, there's nothing to really scan for in the first place :) It would also take a very dedicated attacker sitting between a machine and a remote knock client to capture every TCP/UDP packet to figure out the correct sequence. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 19:35:52 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:35:52 -0400 Subject: Possible hacking on SSH what should I do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100713153552.300c997b.tleslie@tcn.net> Aside from ignoring it, the only "get back at them (the hackers in general)", is put a pause/wait on the connect to tie up their resources. If its just you and a few others accessing, then change the sshd port (or even firewall it from only know access points), then run all other attempts to a iptables rule that pauses them out. Many years ago I did a flood ping back at them, before the days of highspeed. There was some satisfaction in doing that, me with high speed into my ISP, and flooding some poor B with a 28.8 modem :) but then, there was always the chance it would falsely flood ping someone else, so I didn't really do that for to long. If I contacted the ISP for everyone of these I get,I'd never get any work done. tl On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:15:39 -0400 Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Some one from a French IP is trying to access one of my servers: > > Jul 13 15:05:30 fox sshd[1866]: reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo > for 23-194.213-56.static-ip.oleane.fr [213.56.194.23] failed - > POSSIBLE BREAK-IN ATTEMPT! > > They probably wont be able to get in (I use only ssh keys access) but > what is the best procedure to stop from getting further. > > Should I contact the ISP? > Should I ban him under '/etc/hosts.deny'? > > -- > Myles Braithwaite > http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 13 20:20:44 2010 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:20:44 -0400 Subject: Possible hacking on SSH what should I do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100713202044.GA693@watson-wilon.ca> Be sure your ssh service is hardened. I recommend allowing only key authentication and limiting which users are allowed in. There is little to be gained by trying to catch the cracker. Chances are that the IP is that of a zombie under remote control. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 14 00:08:01 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:08:01 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <20100713162152.GY2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100712235648.GA4037@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100713162152.GY2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100714000801.GA3887@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:21:52PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 07:56:48PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > Good timing, since I'm also considering upgrade. Here is my list... > > > > - Xeon X3430 2.4GHz (similar to i5-750) $215 (infonec.ca) > > - Intel ATX motherboard DP55WG $160 (infonec.ca) > > I have seen so many horror stories about intel boards that they would > never be on my list. Intel is probably the slowest of all companies to > fix major BIOS issues, and the one intel board I have dealt with in the > past didn't even last 12 months before it died. So intel boards do not > equal quality to me. Good chips, crappy board and BIOS. I selected Intel P55 board, because they all explicitly support Xeon. The cheapest P55 Xeon board from Asus is "WS Supercomputer" which is $230. Hmm... $70 budget overrun! > > > - OCZ DDR3-1600 Intel XMP 4GB $110 (infonec.ca) > > - Cooler Master Silent Pro M500 psu $ 60 (canadacomputers.com) > > - Cooler Master 690 II Basic mid-tower $ 80 (canadacomputers.com) > > - Samsung 1TB 7200rpm Spinpoint F1 (boot) $ 65 (infonec.ca) > > - WD 2TB 5400prm Green (backup) $120 (canadacomputers.com) > > - DVD $ 25 > > Everything else looks perfectly nice (assuming the M500 is similar to > the M600, which it almost certainly is). No idea about sansumg > harddisks. I haven't seen one in about a decade. Back then it was > pretty sad, but that was a different era. I like Samsung, because they have "enterprise" specs (whatever that means) at "consumer" price: - 1 in 10^15 non-recoverable error, - 7200 rpm, - 1,200,000 MTBF - good power consumption For 2TB, though, Western Digital is way ahead of the rest. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 14 02:16:22 2010 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:16:22 -0400 Subject: Possible hacking on SSH what should I do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3D1DF6.3090001@ve3syb.ca> Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Some one from a French IP is trying to access one of my servers: > > Jul 13 15:05:30 fox sshd[1866]: reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo > for 23-194.213-56.static-ip.oleane.fr [213.56.194.23] failed - > POSSIBLE BREAK-IN ATTEMPT! I would add them to your hosts.deny file. If this is your own machine accessed from multiple places, knockd would be worth looking at using on the machine (I was just reading about it in the January 2010 issue of Linux Journal). I found having lots of people poking at a remote machine I administer that had sshd running. Since I only accessed the remote machine from my home computer (which has a static domain name but dynamic IP address), I set up hosts.allow to allow ssh from my static domain name but deny everyone else. It drastically cut down the sites reported in the daily summary of the system logs and they are all reported as "connection refused x times" where x is usually a single digit. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 14 14:14:00 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:14:00 -0400 Subject: IPv4 - IPv6 proxy - "PortProxy" Message-ID: <4C3DC628.8080004@rogers.com> In order to access IPv4 only devices over an IPv6 network, a proxy is necessary, which converts the IPv4 address to IPv6. In Windows, it's known as a PortProxy. Is there a similar proxy available in Linux? tnx jk -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 14 14:28:11 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:28:11 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: GTALUG Meeting Tuesday, 13th July, 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 12:32, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Topic: HTML5 with Myles Braithwaite > > ? ?After four years since HTML4 was published (Dec. 1997) it looked > ? ?like the W3C was going to drop the HTML standard (based on SGML) > ? ?in favour of the more popular XHTML 1.1 (based on XML). A group > ? ?of browser developers, from Mozilla, Opera, and Apple, decided to > ? ?form a new working group (June 2004) called WHATWG (Web Hypertext > ? ?Application Technology Working Group) to create a new standard > ? ?called HTML5 that incorporated many features that would require > ? ?an extra plugin to be installed. > I was unable to make it to this, will someone possibly be doing another talk on HTML5 at a later date? -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 14 17:44:34 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:44:34 -0400 Subject: HTML5 resources Message-ID: Following the HTML5 talk (which I couldn't attend - sorry Myles!), here's an article with tons of reference links about the subject. Lots of useful stuff inside. http://www.tripwiremagazine.com/2010/07/30-very-useful-html5-tutorials-techniques-and-examples-for-web-developers.html - FZero -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 14 18:18:11 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:18:11 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <20100714000801.GA3887-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100712235648.GA4037@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100713162152.GY2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100714000801.GA3887@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100714181811.GD2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 08:08:01PM -0400, William Park wrote: > I selected Intel P55 board, because they all explicitly support Xeon. > The cheapest P55 Xeon board from Asus is "WS Supercomputer" which is > $230. Hmm... $70 budget overrun! I don't skimp on quality for the mainboard. Asus has a long history of knowing how to build boards with intel chips better than intel does. They sure know how to write BIOS code better than intel. The P7P55 WS is available for $199 a number of places, so it is only slightly more than the intel board. I have no idea why the xeon wouldn't work on all P55 boards. How odd. Officially the xeon is only supported on some boards, although many people claim it works fine on lots of P55 boards. Might not be worth taking the rist of course. Not sure why anyone wants the xeon over one of the normal desktop CPUs anyhow. > I like Samsung, because they have "enterprise" specs (whatever that > means) at "consumer" price: > - 1 in 10^15 non-recoverable error, It sounds nice, but I am still going to stick with raid, and I am really looking forward to btrfs stabalising so we can have a filesystem with CRC block checks. > - 7200 rpm, > - 1,200,000 MTBF > - good power consumption > > For 2TB, though, Western Digital is way ahead of the rest. Is the samsung quiet like the WD drives? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 14 23:07:14 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 19:07:14 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <20100714181811.GD2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100712235648.GA4037@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100713162152.GY2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100714000801.GA3887@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100714181811.GD2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100714230714.GA3952@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 02:18:11PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 08:08:01PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > I like Samsung, because they have "enterprise" specs (whatever that > > means) at "consumer" price: > > - 1 in 10^15 non-recoverable error, > > It sounds nice, but I am still going to stick with raid, and I am really > looking forward to btrfs stabalising so we can have a filesystem with > CRC block checks. > > > - 7200 rpm, > > - 1,200,000 MTBF > > - good power consumption > > > > For 2TB, though, Western Digital is way ahead of the rest. > > Is the samsung quiet like the WD drives? Since all my drives are Samsung, I can't really compare. But, Samsung 5400rpm is very quiet and cool. I suspect it's pretty much the same as WD's 5400rpm. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 03:07:21 2010 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 23:07:21 -0400 Subject: Possible hacking on SSH what should I do? In-Reply-To: <4C3D1DF6.3090001-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3D1DF6.3090001@ve3syb.ca> Message-ID: <201007142307.21074.amarjan@pobox.com> On July 13, 2010 10:16:22 pm you wrote: > Myles Braithwaite wrote: > > Some one from a French IP is trying to access one of my servers: > > > > Jul 13 15:05:30 fox sshd[1866]: reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo > > for 23-194.213-56.static-ip.oleane.fr [213.56.194.23] failed - > > POSSIBLE BREAK-IN ATTEMPT! > > I would add them to your hosts.deny file. > > If this is your own machine accessed from multiple places, knockd would be > worth looking at using on the machine (I was just reading about it in the > January 2010 issue of Linux Journal). > > I found having lots of people poking at a remote machine I administer that > had sshd running. Since I only accessed the remote machine from my home > computer (which has a static domain name but dynamic IP address), I set up > hosts.allow to allow ssh from my static domain name but deny everyone else. > It drastically cut down the sites reported in the daily summary of the > system logs and they are all reported as "connection refused x times" where > x is usually a single digit. In such a scenario (limited user base, preferably just you), just moving SSH to a nonstandard port will do the trick too. At one time i was being brute forced from dozens of different IP's daily; moving SSH to port 443 (for easy access through even draconian firewalls) eliminated the unwanted attention. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 14:41:28 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 10:41:28 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <20100714230714.GA3952-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100712235648.GA4037@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100713162152.GY2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100714000801.GA3887@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100714181811.GD2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100714230714.GA3952@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100715144128.GE2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 07:07:14PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Since all my drives are Samsung, I can't really compare. But, Samsung > 5400rpm is very quiet and cool. I suspect it's pretty much the same as > WD's 5400rpm. I meant 7200 rpm drives. I don't use the 5400 rpm drives. I find the WD Black series are amazingly quiet even though they are the high performance 7200 rpm drives. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 15:00:53 2010 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:00:53 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <20100709192227.GQ2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100709192227.GQ2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Well I am still trying to find a reasonably priced good UPS. ?So far I > think about $300 is the lowest I have found, given it needs real sine > wave output when using a proper active PFC power supply. > If you want a good UPS, I would suggest EATON's Powerware Products. Definitely Server Grade and produce pure sine waves. They even have consumer grade UPSes but they don't market them well. >From Experience PowerWare Batteries last longer than APCs. http://powerquality.eaton.com/canada/ -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 15:07:00 2010 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:07:00 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <20100710082925.GA3031-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3760BA.9050003@alteeve.com> <20100710082925.GA3031@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 4:29 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 02:18:20PM -0400, Matt Price wrote > >> Probably running Debian or Ubuntu unless there's a compelling reason >> to go to something else. > > ?A server will probably be only dispensing files, so it doesn't need to > get bogged down with a GUI. ?I believe you can turn off X (not just > switch to a text terminal) in Debian, and uninstall it altogether. > You can turn off X with any distro and I can't think of a distro can't uninstall it. If this is a machine that they are going to administer locally maybe they want X for convience. With the power of current machines X is not going to big worry performance wise. -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 15:10:58 2010 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:10:58 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <4C3B6171.4060609-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3760BA.9050003@alteeve.com> <20100710082925.GA3031@waltdnes.org> <20100712181403.GV2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4C3B6171.4060609@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 2:39 PM, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 04:29:25AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: >> >>> >>> ? A server will probably be only dispensing files, so it doesn't need to >>> get bogged down with a GUI. ?I believe you can turn off X (not just >>> switch to a text terminal) in Debian, and uninstall it altogether. >>> >> >> Debian doesn't even install X by default, unless you ask it to install >> Graphical Desktop in the task selector. >> >> > > IIRC, you have to install basic X support, if you want to run certain apps > remotely via ssh. ?Wireshark comes to mind as one you might want to use. Most apps just need the libraries though IIRC a few that require the font server running if you try and run them remote X server. -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 15:43:40 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:43:40 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: References: <20100709192227.GQ2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100715154340.GF2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:00:53AM -0400, Mark Lane wrote: > If you want a good UPS, I would suggest EATON's Powerware Products. > Definitely Server Grade and produce pure sine waves. They even have > consumer grade UPSes but they don't market them well. > From Experience PowerWare Batteries last longer than APCs. > > http://powerquality.eaton.com/canada/ Well their "consumer" models are useless of course. The server grade looks decent. Seems the retail price is a bit lower than a similar APC model as well. greytech lists the PW5115 1400VA at just under $500 which isn't too bad. An APC SU1500 is usually closer to $600 or $700 (except when Dell had their occational $200 sale, which is how I got mine). There are some cheaper cyberpower models that claim pure sine wave output, but I am not sure about their quality at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 19:29:04 2010 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:29:04 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy down last night? Message-ID: Hello All, my internet connection kept dropping last night from about 8:00pm to 7:00am. I am with teksavvy. Did anyone else have a similar issue? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 19:35:27 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:35:27 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy down last night? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3F62FF.9000701@utoronto.ca> On 07/15/2010 03:29 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Hello All, > my internet connection kept dropping last night from about 8:00pm to 7:00am. > I am with teksavvy. Did anyone else have a similar issue? There was a core router that was down. I noticed it with my cable connection from around 21:00-21:30. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 19:37:35 2010 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:37:35 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy down last night? In-Reply-To: <4C3F62FF.9000701-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3F62FF.9000701@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Actually i kept getting dropped from my DSL..but a core router going down? How did you figure that out? On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 07/15/2010 03:29 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Hello All, > > my internet connection kept dropping last night from about 8:00pm to > 7:00am. > > I am with teksavvy. Did anyone else have a similar issue? > > There was a core router that was down. I noticed it with my cable > connection from around 21:00-21:30. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 19:42:59 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:42:59 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy down last night? In-Reply-To: References: <4C3F62FF.9000701@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4C3F64C3.6050801@utoronto.ca> On 07/15/2010 03:37 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Actually i kept getting dropped from my DSL..but a core router going down? > How did you figure that out? I noticed it was flaking out and messaged a friend of mine in Ottawa who uses Teksavvy too. He called support and found out what the problem was. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 19:49:46 2010 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:49:46 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy down last night? In-Reply-To: <4C3F64C3.6050801-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3F62FF.9000701@utoronto.ca> <4C3F64C3.6050801@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4C3F665A.3090700@gmail.com> On 7/15/2010 3:42 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 07/15/2010 03:37 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> Actually i kept getting dropped from my DSL..but a core router going down? >> How did you figure that out? > > I noticed it was flaking out and messaged a friend of mine in Ottawa who > uses Teksavvy too. He called support and found out what the problem was. It's on their website... it was a big one: http://www.teksavvy.com/en/status.asp Date: 7/15/2010 00:22 Details: july 14 2010 Please note that we are aware of the intermittent issue with our network this evening. Our Network Operations Team is diligently working to resolve the cause of the problem. Due to the nature of the problem the service may continue to be intermittent throughout the night. Therefore effective immediately we have opened an Emergency Network Maintenance window until 6AM. We appreciate your patience as we work through this issue. Thank you -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 19:51:49 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:51:49 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy down last night? In-Reply-To: References: <4C3F62FF.9000701@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20100715195149.GA14125@yam.witteman.ca> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 03:37:35PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >Actually i kept getting dropped from my DSL..but a core router going down? >How did you figure that out? I found out when I called Teksavvy and they were issuing updates about the fact that they lost a core router and were working on the problem. In my case it was compounded by some BellNexxia-related infrastructure in my neighbourhood getting torched, and I had intermittent dialtone(!) as well as lapses in Internet. I complain about Bell as much as anyone, but the engineers who run the underlying technology are very good. Even minor interruptions in dialtone are almost shocking in their rarity. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 19:52:05 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:52:05 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy down last night? In-Reply-To: <4C3F665A.3090700-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3F62FF.9000701@utoronto.ca> <4C3F64C3.6050801@utoronto.ca> <4C3F665A.3090700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C3F66E5.3070609@utoronto.ca> On 07/15/2010 03:49 PM, Mike Kallies wrote: > On 7/15/2010 3:42 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> On 07/15/2010 03:37 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >>> Actually i kept getting dropped from my DSL..but a core router going down? >>> How did you figure that out? >> >> I noticed it was flaking out and messaged a friend of mine in Ottawa who >> uses Teksavvy too. He called support and found out what the problem was. > > It's on their website... it was a big one: > > http://www.teksavvy.com/en/status.asp > > Date: 7/15/2010 00:22 > Details: july 14 2010 > Please note that we are aware of the intermittent issue with our network > this evening. > Our Network Operations Team is diligently working to resolve the cause > of the problem. Due to the nature of the problem the service may > continue to be intermittent throughout the night. > Therefore effective immediately we have opened an Emergency Network > Maintenance window until 6AM. > We appreciate your patience as we work through this issue. > Thank you Hard to check a website without working internet though ;) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 19:57:47 2010 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:57:47 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy down last night? In-Reply-To: <4C3F66E5.3070609-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3F62FF.9000701@utoronto.ca> <4C3F64C3.6050801@utoronto.ca> <4C3F665A.3090700@gmail.com> <4C3F66E5.3070609@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Epicly sad but true... It would have been nice for them to send out an email saying what was the issue after the fact... On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > On 07/15/2010 03:49 PM, Mike Kallies wrote: > > On 7/15/2010 3:42 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> On 07/15/2010 03:37 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > >>> Actually i kept getting dropped from my DSL..but a core router going > down? > >>> How did you figure that out? > >> > >> I noticed it was flaking out and messaged a friend of mine in Ottawa who > >> uses Teksavvy too. He called support and found out what the problem was. > > > > It's on their website... it was a big one: > > > > http://www.teksavvy.com/en/status.asp > > > > Date: 7/15/2010 00:22 > > Details: july 14 2010 > > Please note that we are aware of the intermittent issue with our network > > this evening. > > Our Network Operations Team is diligently working to resolve the cause > > of the problem. Due to the nature of the problem the service may > > continue to be intermittent throughout the night. > > Therefore effective immediately we have opened an Emergency Network > > Maintenance window until 6AM. > > We appreciate your patience as we work through this issue. > > Thank you > > Hard to check a website without working internet though ;) > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kshehata-XAaQGU7qChDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 21:39:00 2010 From: kshehata-XAaQGU7qChDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:39:00 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy down last night? In-Reply-To: <4C3F66E5.3070609-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3F62FF.9000701@utoronto.ca> <4C3F64C3.6050801@utoronto.ca> <4C3F665A.3090700@gmail.com> <4C3F66E5.3070609@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <5B7EF033-229D-49AC-B329-791320D28BE9@aeryon.com> On 2010-07-15, at 15:52 , Jamon Camisso wrote: > > Hard to check a website without working internet though ;) Then please file your trouble report via email, and the support team will look at soon. :) -kms -- Kareem Shehata kshehata-XAaQGU7qChDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Aeryon Labs Inc 519-489-6726 x254 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 15 22:12:31 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 18:12:31 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy down last night? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9d7737f0e3b2da0eec1debe7c2989b26.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> > Hello All, > my internet connection kept dropping last night from about 8:00pm to > 7:00am. > I am with teksavvy. Did anyone else have a similar issue? > Yeah, my internet connection went down around 8ish. It also affected my neighbour and her daughter as well. When I woke up this morning everything was working fine. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 16 00:36:22 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 20:36:22 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Engineering Positions @ $company Message-ID: This came in to KWLUG via our web form. Some of the jobs relate to technology you'll be familiar with. I stripped out some advertise-y stuff. Contact the company directly if you are interested. When questioned, the poster clarified as follows. - Location of the company and employment law jurisdiction. SF, California - Location(s) of the job(s) SF, California - Remote or in-house In House - Employment or contract Employment (we also will take co-ops) - Permanent or otherwise Permanent - Full time or otherwise Full time - Pay Depends on position and level of experience. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Linda Sill sent a message using the contact form at http://kwlug.org/contact. Hello there, I would appreciate if you would consider distributing this job posting to the network. Thank you very much! Resumes should be sent directly to me: Linda-MJ2LJywqG9LhvxM+mQhndA at public.gmane.org Web Developer ? * Develop cool and useful features for our community ? * Expertise in JavaScript, HTTP, HTML/DOM, and CSS Search and Data-Mining Engineer ? * Tackle machine learning and information retrieval problems from our database of 10M+ reviews ? * Strong grasp of algorithms and data structures; expertise in Python, Java, or C++ Back-end Engineer ? * Build whole systems that are simple and scalable ? * Expertise in your favorite modern programming language: Python, Ruby, Java, Objective-C, or C++ Mobile Developer ? * Create fun and useful mobile applications for the iPhone, Android, Blackberry platforms and beyond ? * Expertise in Objective C, Java and other mobile languages -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbc-gpQNmkgQrW4 at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 16 01:44:59 2010 From: cbc-gpQNmkgQrW4 at public.gmane.org (Chris Calloway) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 21:44:59 -0400 Subject: Toronto PyCamp 2010 Message-ID: <4C3FB99B.8090907@unc.edu> The University of Toronto Department of Physics brings PyCamp to Toronto on Monday, August 30 through Friday, September 3, 2010. Register today at http://trizpug.org/boot-camp/torpy10/ For beginners, this ultra-low-cost Python Boot Camp makes you productive so you can get your work done quickly. PyCamp emphasizes the features which make Python a simpler and more efficient language. Following along with example Python PushUps? speeds your learning process in a modern high-tech classroom. Become a self-sufficient Python developer in just five days at PyCamp! Conducted on the campus of the University of Toronto, PyCamp comes with your own single OS/single developer copy of Wing Professional Python IDE. -- Sincerely, Chris Calloway office: 332 Chapman Hall phone: (919) 599-3530 mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 16 13:44:03 2010 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 09:44:03 -0400 Subject: dedicated or colo Message-ID: <4C406223.40901@tmis.ca> Dedicated server might be a solution, but would prefer a colo of my server. To be within a 25 miles radius around Toronto would be preferred. On a budget, but may get to 4U in the future with the same provider. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 16 13:55:05 2010 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:55:05 +0000 Subject: dedicated or colo Message-ID: <1399741104-1279288511-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-596087472-@bda111.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Since you have a small footprint, have you considered a managed server? ------Original Message------ From: teddy Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org ReplyTo: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: dedicated or colo Sent: Jul 16, 2010 9:44 AM Dedicated server might be a solution, but would prefer a colo of my server. To be within a 25 miles radius around Toronto would be preferred. On a budget, but may get to 4U in the future with the same provider. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 16 20:15:04 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 16:15:04 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 Message-ID: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi all, After having gone through Logitech, Microsoft, Keytronics, IBM, Happy Hacker, and Razer, I come to the best keyboard of them: Gateway USB keyboard OEM - $8.99 at Canada Computers - It doesn't need drivers like Razer, which loses keys or generates spurious signals when flipping between X and console, or between multiple X's. - standard IBM 104 layout -- probably just re-branded Keytronics with IBM layout. - Esc/Fx rows are very close to the main keys (1.5 of the normal row separation) -- good for Vi mode. - quiet, short keystroke, almost like Happy Hacker but less rattling of keys. Buy them. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 17 00:47:25 2010 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (aaron d) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:47:25 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: <20100716201504.GA5009-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: Rubber domes, definitely not "the best" (personal opinion of course). I'd be surprised if this felt as nice as the HHKB (At least, the ones with topres), but I have never used one (I've never been a fan of tenkeyless/reduced FF). I also prefer feedback (both touch and audible), and don't game so N-Key is not really of any importance to me. My keyboards of choice: - IBM Model M is currently my daily driver (if you need one with Super-key get a Unicomp: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/keyboards.html - these guys are super nice to deal with, can get you different coloured keycaps as well and other oddities.) - JUST picked up a Dell AT101W with ALPS switches BNIB in Montreal for 10 bucks. I'm giving it a test drive right now and I'm fairly impressed. not as loud as IBM model M with a more linear feel and noticeably less resistance to actuate (The IBM is a serious workout if you have been rocking the condom boards for some time). Definitely more play in the keycaps than IBM (or keytronics for that matter). - I've yet to actually buy a cherry blues based board, but have tried a few and want one bad. They have the excellent feedback with less resistance again than the IBM, probably a filco. If you do want less noise but want a board that lasts longer than a dome, you could always check out a "cherry black" based board, or even the browns (filco again, and they offer true n-key). Simple fact, these boards will outlast the rubber crap in most keyboards today. I actually still like the Keytronics (36XX model/series) but you get to banging away on them and the key characteristics change. Peace, Aaron On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 4:15 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > After having gone through Logitech, Microsoft, Keytronics, IBM, Happy > Hacker, and Razer, I come to the best keyboard of them: > > Gateway USB keyboard OEM - $8.99 at Canada Computers > > - It doesn't need drivers like Razer, which loses keys or generates > spurious signals when flipping between X and console, or between > multiple X's. > - standard IBM 104 layout -- probably just re-branded Keytronics with > IBM layout. > - Esc/Fx rows are very close to the main keys (1.5 of the normal row > separation) -- good for Vi mode. > - quiet, short keystroke, almost like Happy Hacker but less rattling of > keys. > > Buy them. > > -- > William > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 17 03:25:48 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 23:25:48 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100717032548.GA7870@node1.opengeometry.net> Happy Hacker is rubber-dome. I no longer use them, because I need all the keys on a keyboard, and all keys have to be fullsize keycap. Honest to God, I use CapLock a lot. It's difficult to get Cherry keyswitch. I think Steelseries 7G Gaming Keyboard (at Canada Computers) is using Cherry linear keyswitch, but it has too much key travel and requires more force than I like. Das Keyboard (from Daskeyboard.com) is using Cherry soft/click tactile keyswitch, but it's very expensive. -- William On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 08:47:25PM -0400, aaron d wrote: > Rubber domes, definitely not "the best" (personal opinion of course). I'd be > surprised if this felt as nice as the HHKB (At least, the ones with topres), > but I have never used one (I've never been a fan of tenkeyless/reduced FF). > > I also prefer feedback (both touch and audible), and don't game so N-Key is > not really of any importance to me. My keyboards of choice: > > - IBM Model M is currently my daily driver (if you need one with Super-key > get a Unicomp: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/keyboards.html - these > guys are super nice to deal with, can get you different coloured keycaps as > well and other oddities.) > > - JUST picked up a Dell AT101W with ALPS switches BNIB in Montreal for 10 > bucks. I'm giving it a test drive right now and I'm fairly impressed. not as > loud as IBM model M with a more linear feel and noticeably less resistance > to actuate (The IBM is a serious workout if you have been rocking the condom > boards for some time). Definitely more play in the keycaps than IBM (or > keytronics for that matter). > > - I've yet to actually buy a cherry blues based board, but have tried a few > and want one bad. They have the excellent feedback with less resistance > again than the IBM, probably a filco. > > If you do want less noise but want a board that lasts longer than a dome, > you could always check out a "cherry black" based board, or even the browns > (filco again, and they offer true n-key). Simple fact, these boards will > outlast the rubber crap in most keyboards today. I actually still like the > Keytronics (36XX model/series) but you get to banging away on them and the > key characteristics change. > > Peace, > > Aaron > > > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 4:15 PM, William Park wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > After having gone through Logitech, Microsoft, Keytronics, IBM, Happy > > Hacker, and Razer, I come to the best keyboard of them: > > > > Gateway USB keyboard OEM - $8.99 at Canada Computers > > > > - It doesn't need drivers like Razer, which loses keys or generates > > spurious signals when flipping between X and console, or between > > multiple X's. > > - standard IBM 104 layout -- probably just re-branded Keytronics with > > IBM layout. > > - Esc/Fx rows are very close to the main keys (1.5 of the normal row > > separation) -- good for Vi mode. > > - quiet, short keystroke, almost like Happy Hacker but less rattling of > > keys. > > > > Buy them. > > > > -- > > William > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 17 06:34:41 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 02:34:41 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy down last night? In-Reply-To: <4C3F66E5.3070609-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3F62FF.9000701@utoronto.ca> <4C3F64C3.6050801@utoronto.ca> <4C3F665A.3090700@gmail.com> <4C3F66E5.3070609@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20100717063441.GC12638@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 03:52:05PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote > Hard to check a website without working internet though ;) Ain't you young whippersanppers heard of dialup ? I deliberately chose a different dialup provider, to reduce "single-point-of-failure" possibility. Nothing I can do about a backhoe taking out the phone line, short of subscribing to Teksavvy cable internet. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 17 11:36:07 2010 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (aaron d) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:36:07 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: <20100717032548.GA7870-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100717032548.GA7870@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: > > Happy Hacker is rubber-dome. I no longer use them, because I need all > the keys on a keyboard, and all keys have to be fullsize keycap. Honest > to God, I use CapLock a lot. > That is not the case anymore. HHKB Pro and up use a capacitive switch, generally referred to as a "Topre switch". They are considered by many to be the best switch going, and the boards they are found in tend to cost A LOT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Capacitive_keyboard http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Topre+Realforce+Reference+-+all+things+topre I agree with the layout comment though, that is the reason I'll never use the HHKB. Realforce make several topre-based boards, including the standard layout, but again, we are talking serious coin ($200+). > It's difficult to get Cherry keyswitch. I think Steelseries 7G Gaming > Keyboard (at Canada Computers) is using Cherry linear keyswitch, but it > has too much key travel and requires more force than I like. Das > Keyboard (from Daskeyboard.com) is using Cherry soft/click tactile > keyswitch, but it's very expensive. > > The point of the cherry blacks (and topres etc) that a proper typist (i.e. Not Me) will actuate the switch without bottoming out the key (so the cherry black responds from 40g to 80g at the end of the stroke, but activates at 60g - this is good on the fingers). Das keyboard IS expensive, as are most new mechanical boards. I would probably get a Filco before DAS as they have been known to have some issues. There are cheaper brands that use these switches though: the "Cherry" brand, adesso, ABS, iRocks, ione, solidtek etc. but you have to pay attention to the exact model number or you will end up with a dome. You can get lucky with some of the older models I mentioned (IBM M, Dell AT101W) and find them at your local sketchy used computer store. I am really like the Dell right now. -aaron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 17 21:32:40 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 17:32:40 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: <20100716201504.GA5009-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 4:15 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > After having gone through Logitech, Microsoft, Keytronics, IBM, Happy > Hacker, and Razer, I come to the best keyboard of them: > > ? ?Gateway USB keyboard OEM - $8.99 at Canada Computers I assume you mean this keyboard: www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_280_282&item_id=025972 > - It doesn't need drivers like Razer, which loses keys or generates > ?spurious signals when flipping between X and console, or between > ?multiple X's. > - standard IBM 104 layout -- probably just re-branded Keytronics with > ?IBM layout. > - Esc/Fx rows are very close to the main keys (1.5 of the normal row > ?separation) -- good for Vi mode. > - quiet, short keystroke, almost like Happy Hacker but less rattling of > ?keys. > > Buy them. No. My personal preference is the Microsoft "natural" keyboards. They look ugly as @#$% but they are VERY comfortable to type on. For day-in/day-out typing I'll take comfort over looks (though the above keyboard does look nice)... Colin McGregor > -- > William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 18 01:51:08 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 21:51:08 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 17:32, Colin McGregor wrote: (snip) > My personal preference is the Microsoft "natural" keyboards. They look > ugly as @#$% but they are VERY comfortable to type on. For > day-in/day-out typing I'll take comfort over looks (though the above > keyboard does look nice)... Microsoft should stick to making keyboards and mice, really. :-) - FZero -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 18 02:54:56 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 22:54:56 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100718025456.GA4821@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 05:32:40PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > My personal preference is the Microsoft "natural" keyboards. They look > ugly as @#$% but they are VERY comfortable to type on. For > day-in/day-out typing I'll take comfort over looks (though the above > keyboard does look nice)... I tried it. You have to press the keys exactly at perpendicular angle. Slightly off angle, they get "sticky" and your train of "finger movement" stops. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 18 13:14:00 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 09:14:00 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4C42FE18.8060604@rogers.com> Fabio FZero wrote: > Microsoft should stick to making keyboards and mice, really.:-) > And CP/M cards for the Apple II. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 18 17:03:08 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:03:08 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100717032548.GA7870@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100718170307.GA4247@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 07:36:07AM -0400, aaron d wrote: > > It's difficult to get Cherry keyswitch. I think Steelseries 7G Gaming > > Keyboard (at Canada Computers) is using Cherry linear keyswitch, but it > > has too much key travel and requires more force than I like. Das > > Keyboard (from Daskeyboard.com) is using Cherry soft/click tactile > > keyswitch, but it's very expensive. > > > The point of the cherry blacks (and topres etc) that a proper typist (i.e. > Not Me) will actuate the switch without bottoming out the key (so the cherry > black responds from 40g to 80g at the end of the stroke, but activates at > 60g - this is good on the fingers). Das keyboard IS expensive, as are most > new mechanical boards. I would probably get a Filco before DAS as they have > been known to have some issues. There are cheaper brands that use these > switches though: the "Cherry" brand, adesso, ABS, iRocks, ione, solidtek > etc. but you have to pay attention to the exact model number or you will end > up with a dome. I finally found Filco seller, , probably cheapest Cherry switch desktop keyboard around. Curious Cherry themselves don't make desktop keyboards with their own MX switches. Do you have Filco Tactile Touch ("brown" switch) or Filco Tactile Click ("blue" switch) ? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 18 21:23:04 2010 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (aaron d) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 17:23:04 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: <20100718170307.GA4247-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100717032548.GA7870@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100718170307.GA4247@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: > > I finally found Filco seller, , > Yes, elite keyboards is the only place to buy them new, along with the topre boards and other good products (here in NA). > probably cheapest Cherry switch desktop keyboard around. Curious Cherry > themselves don't make desktop keyboards with their own MX switches. Actually, taking into account shipping and import taxes/duty that you are likely going to be charged, the least expensive cherry MX blue-based board I know of is the Adesso 135 (actually the 125 is even cheaper, but it's layout isn't worth the savings). tigerDirect has em for 99 bucks: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=6308003&sku=A68-1311&srkey=adesso%20135 As for cherry, they do (make their own boards). Stock on the right boards is just hit or miss from sellers (US based). You have to make sure you pay attention to model # since they make a tonne of boards. Some may have cherry switches you DON'T want, some are domes. http://www.geminicomputersinc.com/g80-3000lscrc-2.html (blues - sold out) http://www.datacal.com/p-1254-cherry-g80-3000-keyboard-with-brown-switches.aspx(browns - in stock) provantage has some off and on as well. > Do you have Filco Tactile Touch ("brown" switch) or Filco Tactile Click > ("blue" switch) ? > I don't have either, but I have used the blues and they are what I prefer. I don't think I would like the browns as by all accounts they are FAR less tactile. I'm saving for a Filco because I trust their build quality. All the guys I know with them are pleased as punch (in any combination of switch type, layout (tenkeyless or standard), Nkey roll-over ability and OTAKU (blank keycaps)). Since it sounds like you are genuinely interested in - if not irrevocably hooked on ;) - the search for keyboard nirvana, I suggest you hit up geekhack.org. These guys are the TLUG of input devices. required reading: -info on all the major switches, what they are like and which boards have them: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Mechanical+Switch+Keyboards+Sorted+By+Switch - the IBM wiki. They made the hardware that started (and, in the minds of many, ENDED) it all. You do yourself and all lovers of mech a great disservice by NOT reading this (no matter how much you think you know): http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=IBM+Wiki Then browse the wiki for topics that you are curious about in general: http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?f=34 I also HIGHLY recommend you get back in touch with the mechanical boards of yore before dropping cash on new shtuff. Part of the reason this hobby is so addictive is the hunt for old boards. Get an IBM Model F or M, get a Dell AT101W and break them down, clean them and marvel at how much better they work at the ripe age of 10-20 years old compared to new POS boards you are using now. (and if you hit paydirt, the mother load of vintage boards, share some with me ;)) Peace, aaron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 00:39:27 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 20:39:27 -0400 Subject: QEMU-KVM video slow Message-ID: <20100719003926.GA10097@waltdnes.org> I've managed to get a 32-bit Gentoo linux run^H^H^H crawling in QEMU on a 64-bit Gentoo host OS. The "text console" video scrolling is painfully slow. Anybody here familiar with QEMU-KVM? My questions... 1) how to speed up its video? 2) how do I enable cut-n-paste between guest and host 3) how do I turn off the "screensaver"? Normally that's a good feature, but not for a Window under X I'll be using it mainly for running one antenna-modelling Windows app under WINE. I built 64-bit Gentoo on the host without optional 32-bit support libraries. Then I found out that WINE does not run in 64-bit linux without 32-bit support... oops. It would take a complete re-install of Gentoo to build with 32-bit support in 64-bit mode. I decided that it was less painfull to do a 32-bit Gentoo install in qemu-kvm, and run WINE in there. While we're at it, are there any end-user mailing lists or user groups for QEMU-KVM? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 01:32:22 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 21:32:22 -0400 Subject: QEMU-KVM video slow In-Reply-To: <20100719003926.GA10097-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100719003926.GA10097@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100719013222.GA7780@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 08:39:27PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I've managed to get a 32-bit Gentoo linux run^H^H^H crawling in QEMU > on a 64-bit Gentoo host OS. The "text console" video scrolling is > painfully slow. Anybody here familiar with QEMU-KVM? My questions... > 1) how to speed up its video? > 2) how do I enable cut-n-paste between guest and host > 3) how do I turn off the "screensaver"? Normally that's a good feature, > but not for a Window under X > > I'll be using it mainly for running one antenna-modelling Windows app > under WINE. I built 64-bit Gentoo on the host without optional 32-bit > support libraries. Then I found out that WINE does not run in 64-bit > linux without 32-bit support... oops. It would take a complete > re-install of Gentoo to build with 32-bit support in 64-bit mode. I > decided that it was less painfull to do a 32-bit Gentoo install in > qemu-kvm, and run WINE in there. > > While we're at it, are there any end-user mailing lists or user groups > for QEMU-KVM? Check into TLUG thread in around the first quarter of this year. What I remember the most was enabling "USB" keyboard/mouse, but that speed up keyboard/mouse. If all else fails, try VirtualBox. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 11:01:03 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 07:01:03 -0400 Subject: Anyone tried built-in raid in P55/Q57 chipset? In-Reply-To: <20100712180603.GT2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100711163802.GA4439@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100712180603.GT2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100719110103.GA11146@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 02:06:03PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 12:38:02PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > Since my Asus M2N-E (nForce 570 Ultra chipset) comes with "NVidia > > MediaShield RAID", I thought to try it finally. BIOS sets up raid, but > > Linux just sees individual disks. > > > > How about Intel side? Has anyone tried built-in raid in Intel P55/Q57 > > chipset? > > My wife's desktop runs build-in raid on an Intel X58. Installing the > bootloader was a @#$@#$@#$ pain in the ass (and I had to use grub 1. > grub 2 does not currently work with it and neither does lilo apparently). > > dmraid and boot support is basicly a pain right now. dmraid itself is > however just fine. > > I recently tried to get grub 2 to work with dmraid and after poking > at it occationalyl for a few weeks stooped bothering and used standard > linux soft raid1 and installed grub2 to both MBRs. It works. > > The only reason for using dmraid is to have dual boot with windows and > using raid with windows on the same disks (which is why my wife's desktop > is using it. It also has windows 7 installed). > > You do not gain any performance using the onboard fakeraid through dmraid > compared to md software raid. Thanks for 'dmraid' heads up, Lennart. I had to add one more header file to get it to compile. Anyways, I found that both Software Raid 0 (mdadm) and Fake Raid 0 (dmraid) have the same throughput, ie. both sucks. Backing up 1TB filesystem to single disk takes 50MB/s and to Raid0 takes 70MB. That's only 20% improvement. I expected 3x because Raid0 has 3 disks. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 11:31:19 2010 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (aaron d) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 07:31:19 -0400 Subject: Anyone tried built-in raid in P55/Q57 chipset? In-Reply-To: <20100719110103.GA11146-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100711163802.GA4439@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100712180603.GT2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100719110103.GA11146@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: I researched this recently as I have the desire to mirror some data reliably and have found that, while "fake" RAID and software RAID perform about the same when they are setup and working, there really is NO reason to use "fake" RAID. http://serverfault.com/questions/133212/onboard-raid-vs-software-raid So basically, if you are looking for the absolute best in throughput, support and reliability, get a real RAID card. If you are just concerned with getting a reliable mirroring set-up (like myself) that you can move to another box as you swap/upgrade, or are looking for marginally better throughput without plunking down bucks for a proper controller, use linux software raid, NOT fake raid. -aaron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 12:36:30 2010 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 08:36:30 -0400 Subject: looking for volunteers to create a Linode HowTo for my iCanProgram Intro to Linux Programming course Message-ID: <201007190836.31158.icanprogram@295.ca> Since this course http://www.icanprogram.com/linuxProgramming.html debuted in 2002 over 3000 students have taken part and had fun learning about Linux Programming. All we've asked in return is that they make a voluntary donation to a Cancer Research charity of their choice. I've always been on the lookout for ways to expand the reach to all potentially interested students. One demographic which is hard to reach is the Windows or Mac user who is simply interested in Linux programming but doesn't have access to a Linux installation. A number of years back one of my students from Australia created the Knoppix HowTo: http://www.icanprogram.com/knoppixHowTo.html which could allow students with access to a PC to boot off a CD and do the material. Similarly one of my students from the UK created a customized Puppy LiveCD for the iCanProgram student to use: http://www.icanprogpup.tuxfamily.org/ Recently I have encountered a "rent by the month" online Linux service http://www.linode.com which potentially could expand the access for Windows and Mac users greatly. I'm looking for volunteers to create a HowTo for Linode (with Ubuntu) for the iCanProgram course material (most recent session just completed at http://www.icanprogram.com/53ux/main.html). This HowTo should include step by step instructions (possibly with screen shots) on how to setup the Linode distribution, what Ubuntu packages need to be downloaded to the Linode, how to copy files to and from the Linode using scp and how to use ssh -X to export the X Window screens for the Tcl/Tk elements over to the Windows or Mac side. Ideally I'd like to have separate HowTo's for Windows and Mac users. Anyone who is interested please contact me directly. Thanks. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 12:52:34 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 08:52:34 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 9:51 PM, Fabio FZero wrote: > On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 17:32, Colin McGregor wrote: > (snip) >> My personal preference is the Microsoft "natural" keyboards. They look >> ugly as @#$% but they are VERY comfortable to type on. For >> day-in/day-out typing I'll take comfort over looks (though the above >> keyboard does look nice)... > > Microsoft should stick to making keyboards and mice, really. :-) In terms of build quality Microsoft seems to do well on PC peripherals in general (not just keyboards/mice) and for what ever reason(s) they show up periodically at very reasonable prices at the usual College/Spadina suspects :-) . To repeat what I've noted before, anyone who is interested in Open Street Map (http://www.openstreetmap.org/) should look at getting an old copy of Microsoft's "Streets and Trips with GPS Locator", which show up from time to time very inexpensively at the College/Spadina shops. Toss the enclosed software and keep the GPS locator. The locators were built for Microsoft by a company called Pharos, and are well supported under Linux. Most of the GPS tracks in/near the town of Perth, Ontario (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.9016&lon=-76.2515&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF) were collected by a Microsoft labeled GPS locator on the front dashboard of my mother's car and a Linux laptop in the front passenger seat :-) . Likewise some of the Microsoft game pads/joysticks seem quite good... When the anti-trust case was on against Microsoft, I would have been happy if Microsoft had been turned into a straight hardware company :-) . Colin. > - FZero -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 14:25:27 2010 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:25:27 -0400 Subject: looking for volunteers to create a Linode HowTo for my iCanProgram Intro to Linux Programming course In-Reply-To: <201007190836.31158.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <201007190836.31158.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: > > Recently I have encountered a "rent by the month" online Linux service > > http://www.linode.com > This is what is called a VPS (Virtual Private Server). Linode is one of many such services available today. Point of note: they are not the cheapest VPS provider. > which potentially could expand the access for Windows and Mac users greatly. > > how to setup the Linode > distribution, There is no Linode distribution. Linode simply provides the hardware for the OS to run. More specifically, they run your OS in a virtual machine on their hardware. Their web site already provides great help for setting up a VPS with them. > what Ubuntu packages need to be downloaded to the Linode, ?how > to copy files to and from the Linode using scp and how to use ssh -X to > export the X Window screens for the Tcl/Tk elements over to the Windows or > Mac side. Assuming one chooses to run Ubuntu on their linode, any configuration or use case howto should be no different than if Ubuntu was running on one's own hardware. Similarly if you choose one of the other available distros. Of course, because the VPS has an external IP, there are additional security concerns compared to running in a VM on your own system or on a spare machine on your own network. My VPS is constantly being bombarded with (failed) login attempts. I'm not trying to slam your idea, just suggesting that maybe it could be generalized to "how to access linux virtual machines from " and maybe for a tutorial it seems wrong to advocate a particular paid service (unless of course you are being paid to advertise for them, which is all well and good and they are a decent service don't get me wrong). cheers, jon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 15:04:13 2010 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:04:13 -0400 Subject: looking for volunteers to create a Linode HowTo for my iCanProgram Intro to Linux Programming course In-Reply-To: References: <201007190836.31158.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <201007191104.14900.icanprogram@295.ca> See my responses below. bob On Monday 19 July 2010 10:25 am, Jon VanAlten wrote: > > Recently I have encountered a "rent by the month" online Linux service > > > > http://www.linode.com > > This is what is called a VPS (Virtual Private Server). Linode is one > of many such services available today. Point of note: they are not > the cheapest VPS provider. Agreed. I haven't had much experience with any of them. I recently helped an associate setup a Linode, so that was the one I knew. > > > which potentially could expand the access for Windows and Mac users > > greatly. > > > > how to setup the Linode > > distribution, > > There is no Linode distribution. Linode simply provides the hardware > for the OS to run. More specifically, they run your OS in a virtual > machine on their hardware. Their web site already provides great help > for setting up a VPS with them. The "target audience" for my proposed HowTo would be the Windows and Mac world, so the ease of setup would be an important consideration. The bulk of the students who have taken the course had a true Linux distribution already installed. The proposed HowTo was targetted at expanding the reach outside the Linuxers. > > > what Ubuntu packages need to be downloaded to the Linode, ?how > > to copy files to and from the Linode using scp and how to use ssh -X to > > export the X Window screens for the Tcl/Tk elements over to the Windows > > or Mac side. > > Assuming one chooses to run Ubuntu on their linode, any configuration > or use case howto should be no different than if Ubuntu was running on > one's own hardware. Similarly if you choose one of the other > available distros. Of course, because the VPS has an external IP, > there are additional security concerns compared to running in a VM on > your own system or on a spare machine on your own network. My VPS is > constantly being bombarded with (failed) login attempts. I mentioned Ubuntu because it is popular and the code repository is extensive. I noticed the Linode folks offer serveral other choices for their default VPS images. The course session runs typically for a month or two. Furthermore, the students will not be putting "sensitive" stuff up on their VPS. I suppose accessing a "hacked" VPS from a Windows box might open up some new vector for malware, but I'm guessing the risk is no higher than traditional Windows infection channels. > > I'm not trying to slam your idea, just suggesting that maybe it could > be generalized to "how to access linux virtual machines from OS>" and maybe for a tutorial it seems wrong to advocate a particular > paid service (unless of course you are being paid to advertise for > them, which is all well and good and they are a decent service don't > get me wrong). I have no financial interest in any particular service. In fact the iCanProgram course itself is gratis but students are encouraged to contribute to a Cancer Research charity of their chosing. A generalized HowTo might work, but it probably would be better to have specific HowTo's for each available service that could meet the criteria of ease of setup and short term contracts. Better still if these services "offered" to donate a portion of the revenue from my student contracts to Cancer Research. That would be a win-win-win. > > cheers, > > jon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 15:23:49 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:23:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: <20100714181811.GD2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100712235648.GA4037@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100713162152.GY2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100714000801.GA3887@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100714181811.GD2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | > I like Samsung, because they have "enterprise" specs (whatever that | > means) at "consumer" price: | > - 1 in 10^15 non-recoverable error, | | It sounds nice, but I am still going to stick with raid, and I am really | looking forward to btrfs stabalising so we can have a filesystem with | CRC block checks. As I understand it, most drives "intended for consumer price points" cannot be told to limit the time of error recovery. This makes them poor for RAID. When an error is detected by the drive, it may take a long time trying to recover. The RAID system may interpret that as the whole drive failing. The RAID ability to make up for a sector loss is thwarted. Adding the drive back to the RAID array takes rebuilding, during which time the redundancy is lost. The rebuild time is very large with current large drives. The manufacturers wish to introduce price differentiation: I think that enterprise and similar consumer disks are essentially the same except for a firmware difference (giving economies of scale). This firmware difference makes the consumer drives unsuitable for RAID use (allowing them to charge higher prices for the enterprise version). If I remember correctly, Samsung is the only manufacturer not to do this at the moment. Please confirm this information before you act on it. I think that this wikipedia article is poorly written and wrong, but still useful: We should do research and fix it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 16:31:32 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:31:32 -0400 Subject: QEMU-KVM video slow In-Reply-To: <20100719003926.GA10097-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100719003926.GA10097@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100719163132.GG2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 08:39:27PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I've managed to get a 32-bit Gentoo linux run^H^H^H crawling in QEMU > on a 64-bit Gentoo host OS. The "text console" video scrolling is > painfully slow. Anybody here familiar with QEMU-KVM? My questions... > 1) how to speed up its video? > 2) how do I enable cut-n-paste between guest and host > 3) how do I turn off the "screensaver"? Normally that's a good feature, > but not for a Window under X > > I'll be using it mainly for running one antenna-modelling Windows app > under WINE. I built 64-bit Gentoo on the host without optional 32-bit > support libraries. Then I found out that WINE does not run in 64-bit > linux without 32-bit support... oops. It would take a complete > re-install of Gentoo to build with 32-bit support in 64-bit mode. I > decided that it was less painfull to do a 32-bit Gentoo install in > qemu-kvm, and run WINE in there. > > While we're at it, are there any end-user mailing lists or user groups > for QEMU-KVM? There are multiple choices for video emulation. Some are much better than others in kvm. Try one of the others. I of course always use vnc, which may also affect performance of video in different ways. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 16:33:26 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:33:26 -0400 Subject: Anyone tried built-in raid in P55/Q57 chipset? In-Reply-To: <20100719110103.GA11146-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100711163802.GA4439@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100712180603.GT2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100719110103.GA11146@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100719163326.GH2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 07:01:03AM -0400, William Park wrote: > Thanks for 'dmraid' heads up, Lennart. I had to add one more header > file to get it to compile. > > Anyways, I found that both Software Raid 0 (mdadm) and Fake Raid 0 > (dmraid) have the same throughput, ie. both sucks. Backing up 1TB > filesystem to single disk takes 50MB/s and to Raid0 takes 70MB. That's > only 20% improvement. I expected 3x because Raid0 has 3 disks. Make sure your filesystem block size matches with the raid block size. Could also be hitting limitations of the bus or the controller in terms of total throughput. I personally have no idea about raid0 performance. raid0 is something I will never ever be using. Disk die often enough as it is, I don't need something to multiply the probabilities together. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 16:34:58 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:34:58 -0400 Subject: Anyone tried built-in raid in P55/Q57 chipset? In-Reply-To: References: <20100711163802.GA4439@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100712180603.GT2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100719110103.GA11146@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100719163458.GI2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 07:31:19AM -0400, aaron d wrote: > I researched this recently as I have the desire to mirror some data reliably > and have found that, while "fake" RAID and software RAID perform about the > same when they are setup and working, there really is NO reason to use > "fake" RAID. > > http://serverfault.com/questions/133212/onboard-raid-vs-software-raid > > So basically, if you are looking for the absolute best in throughput, > support and reliability, get a real RAID card. If you are just concerned > with getting a reliable mirroring set-up (like myself) that you can move to > another box as you swap/upgrade, or are looking for marginally better > throughput without plunking down bucks for a proper controller, use linux > software raid, NOT fake raid. The only advantage of fake raid is windows desktop support. Windows server can do software raid, so it, like Linux, has no benefit from a fake raid, only disadvantages. The problem of moving from one fakeraid controller to another is a very good reason to not use it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 16:48:52 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:48:52 -0400 Subject: how would you spend $1000 on a server? In-Reply-To: References: <20100712235648.GA4037@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100713162152.GY2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100714000801.GA3887@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100714181811.GD2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100719164852.GJ2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 11:23:49AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | > I like Samsung, because they have "enterprise" specs (whatever that > | > means) at "consumer" price: > | > - 1 in 10^15 non-recoverable error, > | > | It sounds nice, but I am still going to stick with raid, and I am really > | looking forward to btrfs stabalising so we can have a filesystem with > | CRC block checks. > > As I understand it, most drives "intended for consumer price points" > cannot be told to limit the time of error recovery. This makes them > poor for RAID. > > When an error is detected by the drive, it may take a > long time trying to recover. The RAID system may interpret that as > the whole drive failing. The RAID ability to make up for a sector > loss is thwarted. Adding the drive back to the RAID array takes > rebuilding, during which time the redundancy is lost. The rebuild > time is very large with current large drives. That is certainly true. It might take long. Fortunately it seems it doesn't usually. WD does have the raid edition drives (for a bit extra cost) which have limits on recovery time for that reason. > The manufacturers wish to introduce price differentiation: I think > that enterprise and similar consumer disks are essentially the same > except for a firmware difference (giving economies of scale). This > firmware difference makes the consumer drives unsuitable for RAID use > (allowing them to charge higher prices for the enterprise version). > Certainly true. Just a firmware difference in the case of the raid support. > If I remember correctly, Samsung is the only manufacturer not to do > this at the moment. Please confirm this information before you act on > it. > > I think that this wikipedia article is poorly written and wrong, but > still useful: > > We should do research and fix it. Well it seems that most WD drives can be reconfigured (using a free DOS utility) to turn on or off time limited error recovery. I guess you don't have to buy the more expensive ones just for that then. Seems it doesn't work on newer drives though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 16:56:02 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:56:02 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100719165602.GK2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 05:32:40PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > My personal preference is the Microsoft "natural" keyboards. They look > ugly as @#$% but they are VERY comfortable to type on. For > day-in/day-out typing I'll take comfort over looks (though the above > keyboard does look nice)... I had one. I gave it away. Terrible to type on. My mom tried it and hated it. They split the left and right hand keys wrong so touch typists can't type on it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 19:58:11 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Toronto PyCamp 2010 In-Reply-To: <4C3FB99B.8090907-gpQNmkgQrW4@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3FB99B.8090907@unc.edu> Message-ID: | Conducted on the campus of the University of Toronto, PyCamp comes with your | own single OS/single developer copy of Wing Professional Python IDE. I infer that "Wing Professional Python IDE" is some kind of proprietary thing. Is it better than the open source alternatives? (This is a serious question for the Python folks amongst us, not a taunt.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 20:10:17 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:10:17 -0400 Subject: Toronto PyCamp 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <4C3FB99B.8090907@unc.edu> Message-ID: There are a few open source alternatives for Python IDEs. The ones I have heard the most at PyGTA meetings are: * Eclipse and the PyDev extension * Eric * NetBeans * Pida You can find a full list on the Python Wiki . Personal I just use Gedit or Kate , but some people like to juggle goslings. --- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org On 2010-07-19, at 3:58 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | Conducted on the campus of the University of Toronto, PyCamp comes with your > | own single OS/single developer copy of Wing Professional Python IDE. > > I infer that "Wing Professional Python IDE" is some kind of > proprietary thing. > > Is it better than the open source alternatives? (This is a serious > question for the Python folks amongst us, not a taunt.) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 20:11:43 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:11:43 -0400 Subject: Toronto PyCamp 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <4C3FB99B.8090907@unc.edu> Message-ID: <20100719201143.GL2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 03:58:11PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I infer that "Wing Professional Python IDE" is some kind of > proprietary thing. > > Is it better than the open source alternatives? (This is a serious > question for the Python folks amongst us, not a taunt.) I like vim. :) I hate every single IDE I have ever encountered. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 20:16:10 2010 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:16:10 -0300 Subject: Toronto PyCamp 2010 In-Reply-To: <20100719201143.GL2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3FB99B.8090907@unc.edu> <20100719201143.GL2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Also have geany as an option. Not heavy IDE. More like a "cool" text editor. http://www.geany.org/ Like to use it with python, ruby, etc.. cheers --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 03:58:11PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > I infer that "Wing Professional Python IDE" is some kind of > > proprietary thing. > > > > Is it better than the open source alternatives? (This is a serious > > question for the Python folks amongst us, not a taunt.) > > I like vim. :) > > I hate every single IDE I have ever encountered. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbc-gpQNmkgQrW4 at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 21:25:31 2010 From: cbc-gpQNmkgQrW4 at public.gmane.org (Chris Calloway) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:25:31 -0400 Subject: Toronto PyCamp 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <4C3FB99B.8090907@unc.edu> Message-ID: <4C44C2CB.6030403@unc.edu> On 7/19/2010 3:58 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | Conducted on the campus of the University of Toronto, PyCamp comes with your > | own single OS/single developer copy of Wing Professional Python IDE. > > I infer that "Wing Professional Python IDE" is some kind of > proprietary thing. > > Is it better than the open source alternatives? (This is a serious > question for the Python folks amongst us, not a taunt.) Yes, like Boa Constructor, Wing is a professional proprietary source Python IDE: http://wingware.com Wing is produced by a former Python Software Foundation chair who has been very good to the Python community. Wing is given away to all PyCon sprinters for the last several PyCons. There are some open source alternatives which do a many of the same things Wing does. The main differentiators for Wing are: 1) Super slick/not clunky 2) Already customized for most major Python frameworks 3) Best support of any software product I've ever found I want to include Wing in PyCamp because I really love using Wing's debugger more than any other. Because the audience for PyCamp is primarily academic, Wingware makes it super easy for me to give Wing away at PyCamp. Basically, it would be foolish of me *not* to give Wing away at PyCamp given the opportunity to do so. It would be like having the opportunity to give a really good $179 software product to PyCampers and then just arbitrarily not doing so. There are actually a lot of giveaways at PyCamp. But Wing is by far the nicest. I think it improves the PyCamp experience for PyCampers to have a really nice IDE early in their Python learning cycle. It sure beats subjecting PyCampers to IDLE. -- Sincerely, Chris Calloway office: 332 Chapman Hall phone: (919) 599-3530 mail: Campus Box #3300, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, NC 27599 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 21:32:38 2010 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:32:38 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: <20100719165602.GK2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100719165602.GK2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100719213238.GA9156@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 12:56:02PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 05:32:40PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > My personal preference is the Microsoft "natural" keyboards. They look > > ugly as @#$% but they are VERY comfortable to type on. For > > day-in/day-out typing I'll take comfort over looks (though the above > > keyboard does look nice)... > I had one. I gave it away. Terrible to type on. My mom tried it and > hated it. They split the left and right hand keys wrong so touch typists > can't type on it. Indeed, they're pretty lousy. I'm a big fan of the Datadsk Smartboard layout http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_sb.html -- it's not totally esoteric like a Kinesis, say, but the layout of the split, and the way the keys fan out and grow in size as you get farther out from your palms, is very smart. I wish all split keyboards did that. This is the first keyboard on which I actually used my pinky finger for the P key (qwerty layout). Also, it's one of the few keyboards that can do a negative incline out of the box. Unfortunately, their build quality has declined over time (cheaper switches, fewer key chord combinations supported...). I seem to abuse my keyboards heavily, and given the build quality of my last smartboard, I don't see myself buying another one. I expect a certain amount of build quality for the prices they charge, irrespective of layout cleverness. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 19 21:38:57 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:38:57 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: <20100719213238.GA9156-XQvu0L+U/ChdoKsW+d1WxEDMw1b21574@public.gmane.org> References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100719165602.GK2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100719213238.GA9156@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> Message-ID: <20100719213857.GM2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 05:32:38PM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > Indeed, they're pretty lousy. I'm a big fan of the Datadsk Smartboard > layout http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_sb.html -- it's not totally > esoteric like a Kinesis, say, but the layout of the split, and the way > the keys fan out and grow in size as you get farther out from your > palms, is very smart. I wish all split keyboards did that. This is the > first keyboard on which I actually used my pinky finger for the P key > (qwerty layout). Wow, not only is the split wrong in the same way as the microsoft, now the key angle is messed up. How awful. > Also, it's one of the few keyboards that can do a negative incline out > of the box. > > Unfortunately, their build quality has declined over time (cheaper > switches, fewer key chord combinations supported...). I seem to abuse my > keyboards heavily, and given the build quality of my last smartboard, I > don't see myself buying another one. I expect a certain amount of build > quality for the prices they charge, irrespective of layout cleverness. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 20 14:28:32 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:28:32 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: <20100719213857.GM2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100719165602.GK2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100719213238.GA9156@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> <20100719213857.GM2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 19 July 2010 17:38, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 05:32:38PM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: >> Indeed, they're pretty lousy. I'm a big fan of the Datadsk Smartboard >> layout http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_sb.html -- it's not totally >> esoteric like a Kinesis, say, but the layout of the split, and the way >> the keys fan out and grow in size as you get farther out from your >> palms, is very smart. I wish all split keyboards did that. This is the >> first keyboard on which I actually used my pinky finger for the P key >> (qwerty layout). > > Wow, not only is the split wrong in the same way as the microsoft, > now the key angle is messed up. ?How awful. > >> Also, it's one of the few keyboards that can do a negative incline out >> of the box. >> >> Unfortunately, their build quality has declined over time (cheaper >> switches, fewer key chord combinations supported...). I seem to abuse my >> keyboards heavily, and given the build quality of my last smartboard, I >> don't see myself buying another one. I expect a certain amount of build >> quality for the prices they charge, irrespective of layout cleverness. Microsoft puts the number "6" with the left hand. The Smartboard puts the "6" on the right hand where it should be, so I believe their layout is "correct." I'm a big fan of both the split between the hands and vertically straightening the rows: standards are wonderful, but slavishly adhering to them when the reason for them died years ago (ie. the typewriter) is foolish. Especially when changing the layout is ergonomically better. And if you're going to keep the keyboard flat, then fanning they keys as they get farther away makes sense to me. Personally, I own two Kinesis keyboards - one for work and one for home, they're the ones I use most. They took a long time to adjust to (weeks), but are fantastic. I imagine that the Smartboard would take a couple days to adjust to, but the improvement in comfort would be noticeable. Making the adjustment to either keyboard is unlikely to significantly damage your ability to type on a normal keyboard, so I don't think it's a problem. However, I wrote Smartboard off years ago for much the same reason as Andrej: I had one of their hard-wired Dvorak keyboards and the build quality didn't match the price. I think it died in less than two years. I also own several IBM Model M keyboards, and prefer that key feel over anything, including my expensive Kinesis keyboards. I wish the Kinesis had buckling springs ... But ultimately the Kinesis layout wins over key-feel, and the Kinesis keys are still quite good. If you're shopping for deviant keyboards, take a look at http://www.ergocanada.com/ - their selection is possibly the best in the world. Their prices aren't the best (but aren't bad), but they're Canadian and their support is excellent. I bought both my Kinesis keyboards through them and will do it again if I need another. I hesitate to recommend it at this point, but there's also the "altkeyboards" mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards/ , meant for this kind of discussion. I'm hesitant because, while it was a hotbed of activity in the late 90s and early 2000s, it's currently stagnant and near death. But the archives may be of interest. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 20 15:08:08 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:08:08 -0400 Subject: The Best Keyboard Ever - $8.99 In-Reply-To: References: <20100716201504.GA5009@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100719165602.GK2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100719213238.GA9156@gondolin.home.marjan.ca> <20100719213857.GM2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100720150808.GN2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:28:32AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > Microsoft puts the number "6" with the left hand. The Smartboard puts > the "6" on the right hand where it should be, so I believe their > layout is "correct." The letter n is on the wrong side by some touch typing standards. > I'm a big fan of both the split between the hands and vertically > straightening the rows: standards are wonderful, but slavishly > adhering to them when the reason for them died years ago (ie. the > typewriter) is foolish. Especially when changing the layout is > ergonomically better. And if you're going to keep the keyboard flat, > then fanning they keys as they get farther away makes sense to me. Some people have been typing for a long time. Changing the angle of the keys now is just too late. > Personally, I own two Kinesis keyboards - one for work and one for > home, they're the ones I use most. They took a long time to adjust to > (weeks), but are fantastic. I imagine that the Smartboard would take > a couple days to adjust to, but the improvement in comfort would be > noticeable. Making the adjustment to either keyboard is unlikely to > significantly damage your ability to type on a normal keyboard, so I > don't think it's a problem. However, I wrote Smartboard off years ago > for much the same reason as Andrej: I had one of their hard-wired > Dvorak keyboards and the build quality didn't match the price. I > think it died in less than two years. > > I also own several IBM Model M keyboards, and prefer that key feel > over anything, including my expensive Kinesis keyboards. I wish the > Kinesis had buckling springs ... But ultimately the Kinesis > layout wins over key-feel, and the Kinesis keys are still quite good. > > If you're shopping for deviant keyboards, take a look at > http://www.ergocanada.com/ - their selection is possibly the best in > the world. Their prices aren't the best (but aren't bad), but they're > Canadian and their support is excellent. I bought both my Kinesis > keyboards through them and will do it again if I need another. > > I hesitate to recommend it at this point, but there's also the > "altkeyboards" mailing list: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards/ , meant for this kind of > discussion. I'm hesitant because, while it was a hotbed of activity > in the late 90s and early 2000s, it's currently stagnant and near > death. But the archives may be of interest. Strangely, I have never had any confort issues with the standard PC104 keyboard. I have no need for a split personally. Some people probably do. My requirements are that the keys are in the place I expect them to be. I don't like small function keys, I don't accept changes to the layout of the inverted t cursor keys or the block of 6 keys above them (logitech made some keyboards that had no insert key. What a pain given some applications require that key to work). I can deal with the back slash being either left of the backspace (small backspace key) or above enter (so normal height enter rather than double height enter). Putting it at the right side of shift or even lower is not acceptable. :) Of course I also run wiht the netherlands international macintosh USB keyboard layout, since it is 100% US, but adds lots of extras using altgr (right alt) and level5 shift (right control). I then use the menu key as compose. This gives me all the letters I ever wanted trivially. I never liked clicky IBM keyboards. Too much effort to press keys (which makes me too slow). My personal keyboard choice for years has been keytronic KT800. I can't find them locally anymore though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kshehata-XAaQGU7qChDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 21 15:57:05 2010 From: kshehata-XAaQGU7qChDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:57:05 -0400 Subject: Teksavvy down last night? In-Reply-To: <20100717063441.GC12638-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4C3F62FF.9000701@utoronto.ca> <4C3F64C3.6050801@utoronto.ca> <4C3F665A.3090700@gmail.com> <4C3F66E5.3070609@utoronto.ca> <20100717063441.GC12638@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <2F19A9EA-7BCD-4DB7-8BAD-9AEE8D3FC5AA@aeryon.com> On 2010-07-17, at 02:34 , Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 03:52:05PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote > >> Hard to check a website without working internet though ;) > > Ain't you young whippersanppers heard of dialup ? I deliberately > chose a different dialup provider, to reduce "single-point-of-failure" > possibility. Nothing I can do about a backhoe taking out the phone > line, short of subscribing to Teksavvy cable internet. Ain't you old fogeys heard of smartphones? ;) -kms -- Kareem Shehata kshehata-XAaQGU7qChDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Aeryon Labs Inc 519-489-6726 x254 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 21 21:53:25 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:53:25 -0400 Subject: QEMU-KVM video slow In-Reply-To: <20100719013222.GA7780-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100719003926.GA10097@waltdnes.org> <20100719013222.GA7780@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100721215325.GA19975@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 09:32:22PM -0400, William Park wrote > Check into TLUG thread in around the first quarter of this year. > What I remember the most was enabling "USB" keyboard/mouse, but that > speed up keyboard/mouse. > If all else fails, try VirtualBox. Crash city for me. It's one of the rare programs that gets my machine hard-locked up to where the magic-sys-req keys don't work. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gwalsh-BSvtlmuW8nk at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 21 23:33:29 2010 From: gwalsh-BSvtlmuW8nk at public.gmane.org (Gary Walsh) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:33:29 -0400 Subject: Google Nexus One Message-ID: <1279755210.2730.31.camel@blackie> I made the mistake of buying a Nexus One from a store on Yonge Street and only realized after it was too late to return it that it was the AWS model that works on the 3G used by Wind Mobile which is not available outside of Toronto. (Works on 2G on Rogers, Bell and Telus). If any current or prospective Wind Mobile users are interested in purchasing it from me, email me for the details. -- Gary Walsh; Kitchener, Ontario, Canada gwalsh-BSvtlmuW8nk at public.gmane.org My Blog: http://gwalsh.notw.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 21 23:41:43 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:41:43 -0400 Subject: QEMU-KVM redux In-Reply-To: <20100719003926.GA10097-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100719003926.GA10097@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100721234143.GA20115@waltdnes.org> OK, I'm up and running. 32-bit Gentoo guest installed with only one hiccup, which isn't Gentoo-specific, but applies to linux in general. While the default QEMU-KVM boot provides /dev/hda, /dev/hdb, etc, to the install CD boot, an installed linux kernel will boot and see /dev/sda, /dev/sdb, etc. In a you-can't-get-from-here-to-to-there chicken-and-egg scenario, you can't write lilo to a /dev/sda that doesn't exist. Here's how I worked around it. First, I created 2 disk image files, a 10-gig working disk, and a 2-gig swap disk... qemu-img create -f raw g32_00_sda.img 10G qemu-img create -f raw g32_00_sdb.img 2G For the install only, I boot with a ridiculously long line kvm -redir tcp:5555::22 -m 2048 -drive file=g32_00_hda.img,if=scsi,bus=0,unit=6 -drive file=g32_00_hdb.img,if=scsi,bus=1,unit=6 -cdrom gentoo32.iso -boot d Let's look at the parameters one-by-one... -redir tcp:5555::22 redirect host port 5555 to guest port 22. The Gentoo minimal install cd allows you to set a root password, and start an ssh server. This allows you to finish the install from host. From the host, I can do stuff like... ssh -p 5555 root at localhost scp -P 5555 foobar root at localhost:. -m 2048 allocate 2048 megabytes (2 gigs) of ram to the virtual machine -drive file=g32_00_hda.img,if=scsi,bus=0,unit=6 treat file g32_00_hda.img as a scsi drive on bus 0, unit 6 i.e. /dev/sda -drive file=g32_00_hdb.img,if=scsi,bus=1,unit=6 treat file g32_00_hdb.img as a scsi drive on bus 1, unit 6 i.e. /dev/sdb -cdrom gentoo32.iso treat file gentoo32.iso as a cdrom, i.e. /dev/hdc -boot d boot from the CD. For those of us old enough to remember DOS, the boot codes actually make sense... a ==> boot from floppy image (like A:) c ==> boot from drive image (like C:) d ==> boot from cdrom image (like D:) n ==> boot from network From here, I do a normal install. The IP address comes from dhcp, and I install lilo to boot from /dev/sda1. Note that the boot command for the installed linux is different. KVM doesn't seem to want to boot from file=g32_00_hda.img,if=scsi,bus=0,unit=6 So I go back to... kvm -localtime -startdate now -vga std -redir tcp:5555::22 -m 2048 -hda g32_00_hda.img -hdb g32_00_hdb.img -boot c The differences here are... -localtime force virtual machine to local time, rather than -startdate now initialize guest date/time to host's date/time -vga std note the new syntax, Other options are "-vga cirrus" and "-vga vesa". "-vga std" gives faster video redraws. To get the highest resolution in the guest's X... * "X -configure" as root to generate an xorg.conf. * copy horizontal and vertical sync ranges from the host's xorg.conf to the guest's xorg.conf. If necessary, search Google for your monitor's specs. This allows me to go fullscreen 1920x1200 in the guest. I find that clumsy, so I throttled it down to only 1680x1050. -hda g32_00_hda.img -hdb g32_00_hdb.img "-drive file=g32_00_hda.img,if=scsi,bus=0,unit=6" doesn't work as a boot drive, so I drop back to the simpler syntax. Note that the drives come up as /dev/sda and /dev/sdb. Don't be confused by the -hda and -hdb notation -boot c boot from a hard drive, versus the cdrom from the install stage One thing I noticed is that going from 1 cpu in the guest to 2 cpus really slows down the guest. I don't understand, since the host has 4 cores. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 22 03:03:47 2010 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:03:47 -0400 Subject: Google Nexus One In-Reply-To: <1279755210.2730.31.camel@blackie> References: <1279755210.2730.31.camel@blackie> Message-ID: <4C47B513.2050008@buynet.com> Gary Walsh wrote: > I made the mistake of buying a Nexus One from a store on Yonge Street > and only realized after it was too late to return it that it was the AWS > model that works on the 3G used by Wind Mobile which is not available > outside of Toronto. (Works on 2G on Rogers, Bell and Telus). If any > current or prospective Wind Mobile users are interested in purchasing it > from me, email me for the details. > The AWS model also works on Mobilicity - but still only in the Toronto area. I really like the unlimited data; especially now that Android 2.2 has native wireless tethering. I was originally with Wind but changed to Mobilicity because of Wind's incompetent administration. Mobilicity is also cheaper, their network seems better in the areas where I use it most (Scarborough, Markham) and has blocked only a couple of ports (ie voip) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 22 04:21:45 2010 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 00:21:45 -0400 Subject: Google Nexus One In-Reply-To: <4C47B513.2050008-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1279755210.2730.31.camel@blackie> <4C47B513.2050008@buynet.com> Message-ID: <1279772505.13687.1386085791@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:03 -0400, "Herb Richter" wrote: > Gary Walsh wrote: > > I made the mistake of buying a Nexus One from a store on Yonge Street > > and only realized after it was too late to return it that it was the AWS > > model that works on the 3G used by Wind Mobile which is not available > > outside of Toronto. (Works on 2G on Rogers, Bell and Telus). If any > > current or prospective Wind Mobile users are interested in purchasing it > > from me, email me for the details. > > > The AWS model also works on Mobilicity - but still only in the Toronto > area. > > I really like the unlimited data; especially now that Android 2.2 has > native wireless tethering. > > I was originally with Wind but changed to Mobilicity because of Wind's > incompetent administration. > Mobilicity is also cheaper, their network seems better in the areas > where I use it most (Scarborough, Markham) > and has blocked only a couple of ports (ie voip) As a current Wind customer, I'd like to point out that Wind compares favourably to Mobilicity on at least a few points which are important to me: * Mobilicity only operates in Toronto at the present time. Wind also operates in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa, and all those cities are considered "WIND Home" zones even if your phone is based in the GTA. * Wind's GTA coverage is much more extensive than Mobilicity's, extending along the entire north shore from Hamilton to Oshawa. Mobilicity's GTA coverage only extends from Mississauga to Scarborough (!) * Mobilicity doesn't offer US roaming at the present time, a non-starter for me since I have family in the States and visit there a lot. Wind's US roaming rates are the cheapest around, at 25c/minute; all other Canadian carriers will charge at least $1.45/minute (95c/min roaming plus 50c/min long distance). * Mobilicity will not unlock its phones, ever. Wind at least will unlock them after you've had a plan with them for 3 months. (I know it's possible to get phones unlocked via third parties, but Mobilicity's stance on this still angers me, particularly since their phones aren't subsidized.) I can't argue as to Wind's administration, though in their defence I'd like to state that I've managed to solve any problems I've had with them so far. And the port-blocking is indeed annoying, though I've managed to find workarounds for the cases where it affected me. I only hope they manage to work through their troubles soon; losing any of the new carriers in the current lopsided market would benefit no one. Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 22 15:01:10 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:01:10 -0400 Subject: A talk on Linux Games... Message-ID: I will be doing a talk on Linux Games at the FreeGeek (http://www.freegeektoronto.org/) warehouse near Dundas St. W. and Keele on 6:00 pm on Thursday 29th July. This will be a slightly updated version of the talk I did for GTALug in March 2009 (http://gtalug.org/wiki/Meetings:2009-03). The talk is free to attend and anyone interested should have a word with Ushnish Sengupta as space is limited. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 23 15:18:18 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100628010904.GA10761-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: | From: William O'Higgins Witteman | Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 21:09:04 -0400 I know that this reply is too late, but this is a hook to hang my message on. | I am planning to set up a fileserver for my home network. Mainly, this | is so that when my wife is at home she can sync her laptop and her | desktop (both Macs) via a quick-and-easy rsync so that both machines are | always in sync, with an additional copy on the network from which the | offsite network backup can happen at night. | | I don't want to set up a separate full-sized machine to take this role - | I'd prefer a small, quiet and inexpensive device that I can plug in and | will "just work". This morning's Newegg "shell shocker" might be interesting. A bare-bones small-form-factor Foxconn dual-core Atom system + 4G of RAM (no disk, not keyboard, no mouse, no OS) $157.98 after $20 mail-in rebate. Room for two 3.5" drives and one optical drive. This Atom-based system should be fairly low-power and quiet compared with a normal PC. It has 1G ethernet and VGA-only output built in. Room for one PCI card. This won't "just work" but it should be fairly straightforward. The compensating advantage is that you are not at the mercy of an appliance vendor's firmware update policy (usually horrible after first few months). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 23 15:37:13 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:37:13 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100723153713.GA30208@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 11:18:18AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >| From: William O'Higgins Witteman >| Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 21:09:04 -0400 > >I know that this reply is too late, but this is a hook to hang my >message on. I don't know - I've never made a hardware decision (except when I bought a hammer) that I thought I wouldn't be revisiting at some point - even if it was advice to others. >This morning's Newegg "shell shocker" might be interesting. > >A bare-bones small-form-factor Foxconn dual-core Atom system + 4G of RAM (no >disk, not keyboard, no mouse, no OS) $157.98 after $20 mail-in rebate. > >Room for two 3.5" drives and one optical drive. > >This Atom-based system should be fairly low-power and quiet compared >with a normal PC. It has 1G ethernet and VGA-only output built in. >Room for one PCI card. > >This won't "just work" but it should be fairly straightforward. The >compensating advantage is that you are not at the mercy of an >appliance vendor's firmware update policy (usually horrible after >first few months). That is a very neat little system, and tempting. The WD firmware policy is not an issue for me, as I choose when new firmware is applied, and since it is just running Linux anyway, I have little need to upgrade it - it really does "just work", but I was aided by the ability to add more tools. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 23 19:02:57 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | This morning's Newegg "shell shocker" might be interesting. Sorry, forgot to post the link. I imagine that the deal disappears by 13:00 PDT. I just ordered one. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gwalsh-BSvtlmuW8nk at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 23 19:54:09 2010 From: gwalsh-BSvtlmuW8nk at public.gmane.org (Gary Walsh) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:54:09 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <20100628010904.GA10761-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <1279914849.11662.38.camel@blackie> On Sun, 2010-06-27 at 21:09 -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I am planning to set up a fileserver for my home network. Mainly, this > is so that when my wife is at home she can sync her laptop and her > desktop (both Macs) via a quick-and-easy rsync so that both machines are > always in sync, with an additional copy on the network from which the > offsite network backup can happen at night. > > I don't want to set up a separate full-sized machine to take this role - > I'd prefer a small, quiet and inexpensive device that I can plug in and > will "just work". > > I am looking at these two devices - a Linksys Media Hub or a WD MyBook: > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_357&item_id=023031 > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=15_213_603&item_id=031508 > > I would welcome any other suggestions or caveats. Thanks! I have been using a D-Link DNS323 for a couple of years. Works for me. Make sure that you get the latest firmware before you use it, though. http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_357&item_id=011783&sid=0u6u58r3s8kv43147tvar126s6 -- Gary Walsh; Kitchener, Ontario, Canada gwalsh-BSvtlmuW8nk at public.gmane.org My Blog: http://gwalsh.notw.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 23 23:34:50 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 19:34:50 -0400 Subject: Home NAS Recommendations In-Reply-To: <1279914849.11662.38.camel@blackie> References: <20100628010904.GA10761@yam.witteman.ca> <1279914849.11662.38.camel@blackie> Message-ID: <20100723233450.GA13064@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 03:54:09PM -0400, Gary Walsh wrote: > I have been using a D-Link DNS323 for a couple of years. Works for me. > Make sure that you get the latest firmware before you use it, though. > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_357&item_id=011783&sid=0u6u58r3s8kv43147tvar126s6 Hi Gary, How do you actually use this? It only mentions FTP. What I mean is, I can see backing up discrete files, say downloaded files, over FTP. But, how do you use this to back up real filesystem, say /, /home, ... ? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 24 01:45:07 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 21:45:07 -0400 Subject: Google Nexus One In-Reply-To: <1279755210.2730.31.camel@blackie> References: <1279755210.2730.31.camel@blackie> Message-ID: Where on yonge did you buy it and how much for? Do you still have it..just curious the pricing? On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Gary Walsh wrote: > I made the mistake of buying a Nexus One from a store on Yonge Street > and only realized after it was too late to return it that it was the AWS > model that works on the 3G used by Wind Mobile which is not available > outside of Toronto. (Works on 2G on Rogers, Bell and Telus). If any > current or prospective Wind Mobile users are interested in purchasing it > from me, email me for the details. > > > -- > Gary Walsh; Kitchener, Ontario, Canada > gwalsh-BSvtlmuW8nk at public.gmane.org My Blog: http://gwalsh.notw.ca > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 24 02:57:59 2010 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 22:57:59 -0400 Subject: Some Free Stuff Message-ID: <24C7B56F-B508-4D9D-8F5E-23E9FA052F8E@gmail.com> Hi all, I've got a handful of computery items to get rid of before moving at the end of the month that may or may not be of interest to some of you, thought I'd post here before simply recycling. One man's trash is another's treasure. A complete desktop computer (tower, not accessories). It is old, but functional. AMD Athlon XP 2600+ processor (1.15 Ghz), 512 MB RAM, some sort of low to midrange Asus mobo from that era, CD-rom (no dvd or burner). It has a graphics card in it, don't remember what but it's AGP. 80GB IDE hard drive. Don't remember how many watts the PSU or the brand but it was a cheap unit that we always kept in stock at the repair shop I used to work at because we'd never seen one die. Seriously, none of these failed in about 2 years that I was working there. The case is sort of cheap too but it held up, has side window and at one point I installed one of those silly light systems that blinks fluorescent green in response to sound. I'd keep this as some sort of server but I am moving across the country and so it's not worth shipping. DDR2 SODIMM, 512MB at 667MHz, don't remember what it came out of but it seems to be SIS and reads SSX264MB-J6E 2x256MB SODIMM ram sticks that came out of my old mac mini when I upgraded it, hynix brand HYMP532S64BP6-Y5 AB ATI RF media remote with USB dongle An old P4 3.0 Ghz chip. I forget the old socket numbers but it's from when the pins were still on the processor instead of the motherboard. This thing hasn't been stored properly at all, no idea if it works but I don't see any bent pins. Linksys WPC11 ver4 wireless B notebook adapter, although if anyone wants it I will give a severe "look of disapproval" for still having a B network. Palm Tungsten E. This old PDA is sort of interesting, because as I recall there was a project that actually got some form of linux installed on it. I still have charger cradle for it. So if you want any or all of this stuff, I'm at Yonge and Davisville. Email me offlist and we'll figure something out for no later than next Friday. cheers, jon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 24 16:09:00 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 12:09:00 -0400 Subject: OpenStreetMap "Mappy Hour" Tuesday 27 July 2010 Message-ID: Hi all, Tuesday 27 July 2010, 6:30pm 'til ??? The Pilot Tavern 22 Cumberland Street (near Yonge and Bloor) OpenStreetMap enthusiasts (and the occasional curious newcomer) will be meeting Tuesday for idle chit chat around Geo Data, location based services and "Whew, how 'bout this heat?" Q&A always welcome. Bring your computer if you want to get some "coaching" on OSM editing software. http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Toronto/calendar/14199408/ Also, for those west of the city, the KW OSM meetup group is meeting on Wednesday. http://www.meetup.com/Waterloo-OSM/calendar/14199485/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 25 00:04:51 2010 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:04:51 -0400 Subject: Google Nexus One In-Reply-To: <4C47B513.2050008-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1279755210.2730.31.camel@blackie> <4C47B513.2050008@buynet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 23:03, Herb Richter wrote: > The AWS model also works on Mobilicity - but still only in the Toronto area. > > I really like the unlimited data; especially now that Android 2.2 has native > wireless tethering. > > I was originally with Wind but changed to Mobilicity because of Wind's > incompetent administration. > Mobilicity is also cheaper, their network seems better in the areas where I > use it most (Scarborough, Markham) > and has blocked only a couple of ports (ie voip) I really tried hard to buy a Wind phone. I went to two sales points, listed on their website. At the first time they didn't have even a SIM card. At the second, they only sold the SIM Cards - and had no idea if it would work with my cell phone. And weren't very helpful or interested in selling me anything. I was told to maybe try another store. I gave up and tried Mobilicity. They had everything, better prices, and cellphone works (but not inside NoFrills, this is weird) I'd really prefer to have something better than a HTC Winmobile, but the price was affordable. -- Renata Rocha http://renata.org http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 25 18:42:29 2010 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:42:29 -0400 Subject: DNSSEC articles Message-ID: <4C4C8595.6040201@tmis.ca> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnssec http://www.dnssec.net/ http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/07/22/a-major-milestone-internet-security http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/ISC-Praises-Momentous-Step-Forward-in-Securing-the-Domain-Name-System-1291200.htm http://www.marketwatch.com/story/verisign-announces-deployment-of-dns-security-extensions-at-the-internets-root-2010-07-16 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 25 22:52:20 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:52:20 -0400 Subject: Trying to run remote X (not succeeding) Message-ID: <20100725225220.GA14287@waltdnes.org> OK, I have QEMU-KVM up and running on a 64-bit Gentoo host, running a 32-bit Gentoo guest. I built the 64-built host without 32-bit support, only to find afterwards that WINE doesn't run on a 64-bit linux. And I can now run a Windows-only antenna-modelling app in WINE in the 32-bit guest. The guest has X up and running, but the screen update of X inside the VM is "somewhat leisurely", to say the least. First, the lineup... host ==== - hostname "i3" - IP address 192.168.123.249 guest ===== - hostname "g32_00" - it thinks its IP address is 10.0.2.15 [g32_00][waltdnes][~] /sbin/ifconfig eth0 eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 52:54:00:12:34:56 inet addr:10.0.2.15 Bcast:10.0.2.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:943 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:532 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:71366 (69.6 KiB) TX bytes:77500 (75.6 KiB) Interrupt:11 Base address:0xc000 What I would like to do is... - ssh from the host into the guest - start WINE on the guest, but... - display the WINE window on the X session in the host [g32_00][waltdnes][~] /sbin/route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 10.0.2.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo 0.0.0.0 10.0.2.2 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 The QEMU-KVM guest is launched with "-redir 5555::22:". To ssh from the host to the guest, I execute the non-intuitive command... ssh -p 5555 waltdnes at localhost >From the guest, I can... ssh -p 5555 waltdnes-Q0ErXNX1Rub4uyLJKQN6/w at public.gmane.org scp also works both ways. I've enabled X forwarding in /etc/sss_config and /etc/sshd_config on both machines, and restarted sshd on both. When I ssh from host to guest, I get... waltdnes at i3 ~ $ ssh -p 5555 localhost Warning: untrusted X11 forwarding setup failed: xauth key data not generated Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding. Last login: Sun Jul 25 18:19:45 2010 from 10.0.2.2 When I try something simple, like launching xterm from the guest, using the host's currently-running X session, I get... [g32_00][waltdnes][~] xterm -display 192.168.123.249 xterm Xt error: Can't open display: 192.168.123.249 * I've checked the logs, and it's not an iptables problem. * I've gotten rid of "-nolisten tcp" in the X startup script on the host. * I've bypassed ssh altogether, and from the QEMU-KVM window typed... [g32_00][waltdnes][~] xterm -display 192.168.123.249 No luck. Any ideas? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 25 22:43:04 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:43:04 -0400 Subject: A talent for repair Message-ID: <514db86eda31018a5d98b69288755cee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> We have an older Toshiba laptop that's been used by various members of the family and eventually ended up being used by my wife Dorothy. A year ago, the keyboard stopped working correctly, although the rest of the machine was functional and we could use a USB keyboard instead. I took the machine as far appart as I dared, looking for a bad connection - at one point I had most of it spread out on my bench - but couldn't find anything wrong. Dorothy got tired of this and bought a Mac. We put the Tosh in the basement. Last week, Dorothy left for a vacation in Walton, NS, a former mining town *away* out in rural Nova Scotia. On a whim, she took the Tosh with her to show to a local woman who is self trained in fixing computers. Marg is about 65 and 'started in computers' a few years ago. I was pretty skeptical this was going anywhere. Dorothy showed the computer to Marg and she very quickly determined that a couple of the function keys were pushed down and locked together. Using a paper clip, she freed the keys and the keyboard worked fine. Some people, like Marg, have a real talent for repairing things. And it's not necessarily those with an engineering degree ;). -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 25 22:29:07 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:29:07 -0400 Subject: A Data USB Key mounts Read Only under Suse Message-ID: <8dde21286e516da4e8af17222518f895.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Normally, I simply plug in a USB Key and it appears on my desktop. On the Suse Linux (10.3) machine, I need to become root to write to it, but that's a minor inconvenience. Then I purchased an 'A Data C905' key at Canada Computers and discovered that it would mount only as a 'read only file system'. After over an hour of fruitless fiddling around with fstab and device permissions, I decided (which I should have done much earlier) to try another key, (by LG). That one mounted just fine: I could read from and write to it. Then I tried the A Data key on a win XP laptop and a netbook running Ubuntu Jaunty Jacalope. The key mounted fine on those machines, both read and write. So far as I could see, there are no posts on this specific issue on the internet. But some posters mention keys that could not be recognized because of a timing delay problem, some keys apparently take longer than others to initialize. The cure in that case is to lengthen out a delay after the device is recognized. Has anyone else seen this type of problem? Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 26 02:31:18 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:31:18 -0400 Subject: A talent for repair In-Reply-To: <514db86eda31018a5d98b69288755cee.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <514db86eda31018a5d98b69288755cee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4C4CF376.8090001@alteeve.com> On 10-07-25 06:43 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > We have an older Toshiba laptop that's been used by various members of the > family and eventually ended up being used by my wife Dorothy. A year ago, > the keyboard stopped working correctly, although the rest of the machine > was functional and we could use a USB keyboard instead. I took the machine > as far appart as I dared, looking for a bad connection - at one point I > had most of it spread out on my bench - but couldn't find anything wrong. > > Dorothy got tired of this and bought a Mac. We put the Tosh in the basement. > > Last week, Dorothy left for a vacation in Walton, NS, a former mining town > *away* out in rural Nova Scotia. On a whim, she took the Tosh with her to > show to a local woman who is self trained in fixing computers. Marg is > about 65 and 'started in computers' a few years ago. I was pretty > skeptical this was going anywhere. > > Dorothy showed the computer to Marg and she very quickly determined that a > couple of the function keys were pushed down and locked together. Using a > paper clip, she freed the keys and the keyboard worked fine. > > Some people, like Marg, have a real talent for repairing things. And it's > not necessarily those with an engineering degree ;). Nice post, thank you. :) -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 26 02:59:16 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:59:16 -0400 Subject: A talent for repair In-Reply-To: <514db86eda31018a5d98b69288755cee.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <514db86eda31018a5d98b69288755cee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20100726025916.GA13592@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 06:43:04PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > We have an older Toshiba laptop that's been used by various members of the > family and eventually ended up being used by my wife Dorothy. A year ago, > the keyboard stopped working correctly, although the rest of the machine > was functional and we could use a USB keyboard instead. I took the machine > as far appart as I dared, looking for a bad connection - at one point I > had most of it spread out on my bench - but couldn't find anything wrong. > > Dorothy got tired of this and bought a Mac. We put the Tosh in the basement. > > Last week, Dorothy left for a vacation in Walton, NS, a former mining town > *away* out in rural Nova Scotia. On a whim, she took the Tosh with her to > show to a local woman who is self trained in fixing computers. Marg is > about 65 and 'started in computers' a few years ago. I was pretty > skeptical this was going anywhere. > > Dorothy showed the computer to Marg and she very quickly determined that a > couple of the function keys were pushed down and locked together. Using a > paper clip, she freed the keys and the keyboard worked fine. > > Some people, like Marg, have a real talent for repairing things. And it's > not necessarily those with an engineering degree ;). Ah, yes. The age old problem of "searching for elephant using microscope." -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 26 03:31:51 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:31:51 -0400 Subject: Trying to run remote X (not succeeding) In-Reply-To: <20100725225220.GA14287-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100725225220.GA14287@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100726033151.GA15006@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 06:52:20PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote > >From the guest, I can... > > ssh -p 5555 waltdnes-Q0ErXNX1Rub4uyLJKQN6/w at public.gmane.org ARRRRGH. That should read... > ssh waltdnes-Q0ErXNX1Rub4uyLJKQN6/w at public.gmane.org -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 26 03:44:55 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:44:55 -0400 Subject: Trying to run remote X (not succeeding) In-Reply-To: <20100726033151.GA15006-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100725225220.GA14287@waltdnes.org> <20100726033151.GA15006@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4C4D04B7.2090703@alteeve.com> On 10-07-25 11:31 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 06:52:20PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote > >> > From the guest, I can... >> >> ssh -p 5555 waltdnes-Q0ErXNX1Rub4uyLJKQN6/w at public.gmane.org > > ARRRRGH. That should read... > >> ssh waltdnes-Q0ErXNX1Rub4uyLJKQN6/w at public.gmane.org > > Try: ssh -X waltdnes-Q0ErXNX1Rub4uyLJKQN6/w at public.gmane.org -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 26 04:17:11 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A Data USB Key mounts Read Only under Suse In-Reply-To: <8dde21286e516da4e8af17222518f895.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <8dde21286e516da4e8af17222518f895.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: | From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org | Then I purchased an 'A Data C905' key at Canada Computers and discovered | that it would mount only as a 'read only file system'. After over an hour | of fruitless fiddling around with fstab and device permissions, I decided | (which I should have done much earlier) to try another key, (by LG). That | one mounted just fine: I could read from and write to it. What filesystem does it have? Did you try an fsck? If I remember correctly, some Linux distros have only read-only support for NTFS, at least out of the box. Did dmesg show anything interesting? /var/log/messages? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 26 17:43:46 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:43:46 -0400 Subject: A Data USB Key mounts Read Only under Suse In-Reply-To: <8dde21286e516da4e8af17222518f895.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <8dde21286e516da4e8af17222518f895.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20100726174346.GO2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 06:29:07PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Normally, I simply plug in a USB Key and it appears on my desktop. On the > Suse Linux (10.3) machine, I need to become root to write to it, but > that's a minor inconvenience. > > Then I purchased an 'A Data C905' key at Canada Computers and discovered > that it would mount only as a 'read only file system'. After over an hour > of fruitless fiddling around with fstab and device permissions, I decided > (which I should have done much earlier) to try another key, (by LG). That > one mounted just fine: I could read from and write to it. > > Then I tried the A Data key on a win XP laptop and a netbook running > Ubuntu Jaunty Jacalope. The key mounted fine on those machines, both read > and write. > > So far as I could see, there are no posts on this specific issue on the > internet. But some posters mention keys that could not be recognized > because of a timing delay problem, some keys apparently take longer than > others to initialize. The cure in that case is to lengthen out a delay > after the device is recognized. > > Has anyone else seen this type of problem? Some usb keys have U3 support, which tends to mean the first device they present is a USB CDROM device with drivers. The secondary device is the actual USB key flash area. I have one from kingston that did that, but a windows utility allowed me to disable that and turn it into a regular USB key instead. Some linux distributions have udev rules to recognize certain models and automatically mount the right device instead of the first one. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 26 22:06:07 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:06:07 -0400 Subject: $200 (US) PC... Message-ID: Thanks to the slashdot.org news website, I ran across the following story about building a $200 (U.S.) PC: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2366841,00.asp In building the PC they did not include a keyboard, mouse or display in the budget. Interesting to see where else they cut costs. The people who did the above make no secret of their fondness for MS Windows, but they note that they could not do MS Windows and hit their price point target, so, Ubuntu Linux was the OS used. Also, to cut costs they didn't include an optical drive and instead installed from a USB memory key... Interesting article on budget PC building... Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 00:23:40 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:23:40 -0400 Subject: $200 (US) PC... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100727002340.GA10344@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 06:06:07PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Thanks to the slashdot.org news website, I ran across the following > story about building a $200 (U.S.) PC: > > http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2366841,00.asp > > In building the PC they did not include a keyboard, mouse or display > in the budget. Interesting to see where else they cut costs. The > people who did the above make no secret of their fondness for MS > Windows, but they note that they could not do MS Windows and hit their > price point target, so, Ubuntu Linux was the OS used. Also, to cut > costs they didn't include an optical drive and instead installed from > a USB memory key... > > Interesting article on budget PC building... You can do that here in Canada, too. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 05:47:39 2010 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:47:39 -0400 Subject: Hardware Diagnostics (Was: A talent for repair) In-Reply-To: <20100726025916.GA13592-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <514db86eda31018a5d98b69288755cee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20100726025916.GA13592@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4C4E72FB.2050708@ss.org> Dear List Members, The story quoted below reminds me how unverifiable our computer hardware can be. As such I wish to relay a story of my own experience and at the end propose a question. I own an OLPC XO. For awhile after I got it I was experiencing strange behaviour when using the keyboard. Wrong characters, the inability to use ctrl-sequences. Like the owner of the Toshiba from the other story I suspected that it might be a loose connection from the keyboard to the main board. The OLPC XO was designed with serviceability in mind, so taking it apart was rather easy with only three types of screws used in the whole design (with spares located inside the casing!). But I found nothing to be a miss. What eventually allowed me to track down the issue was the built in hardware diagnostics in the firmware (BIOS eqv.). The OLPC XO boot firmware includes visual diagnostics for all of it's hardware components. These include live trackpad data visualization, fish-eye generation on the USB ports (checkable with an ossiliscope) and most important in my case a live key press map. With this diagnostic I was able to watch the keys as I pressed them and after playing with it for a bit I noticed the Ctrl key was sticking. Now, this is not your normal keyboard in the OLPC XO, it's a fully sealed membrane. It is also rather silly how I repaired the problem by accidentally causing a rip in the membrane around the key. But to put this story in to perspective, if I had not had that tool in the firmware, I would have never likely figured out the cause. My question to the list is this, What would it take to get manufactures to making their products serviceable again? (And I don't want to hear "Fat Chance" or "can't beat greed" answers, give the question a chance and come up with some constructive thoughts.) On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 06:43:04PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> We have an older Toshiba laptop that's been used by various members of the >> family and eventually ended up being used by my wife Dorothy. A year ago, >> the keyboard stopped working correctly, although the rest of the machine >> was functional and we could use a USB keyboard instead. I took the machine >> as far appart as I dared, looking for a bad connection - at one point I >> had most of it spread out on my bench - but couldn't find anything wrong. >> >> Dorothy got tired of this and bought a Mac. We put the Tosh in the basement. >> >> Last week, Dorothy left for a vacation in Walton, NS, a former mining town >> *away* out in rural Nova Scotia. On a whim, she took the Tosh with her to >> show to a local woman who is self trained in fixing computers. Marg is >> about 65 and 'started in computers' a few years ago. I was pretty >> skeptical this was going anywhere. >> >> Dorothy showed the computer to Marg and she very quickly determined that a >> couple of the function keys were pushed down and locked together. Using a >> paper clip, she freed the keys and the keyboard worked fine. >> >> Some people, like Marg, have a real talent for repairing things. And it's >> not necessarily those with an engineering degree ;). >> -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 11:40:04 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 07:40:04 -0400 Subject: Hardware Diagnostics (Was: A talent for repair) In-Reply-To: <4C4E72FB.2050708-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <514db86eda31018a5d98b69288755cee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20100726025916.GA13592@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C4E72FB.2050708@ss.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 01:47, Scott Sullivan wrote: > My question to the list is this, > > ? ?What would it take to get manufactures to making their products > serviceable again? Well, that's a bit relative. If you're talking notebooks, things have actually improved lately. It was almost impossible to do a simple memory or hard drive upgrade on a laptop 10-12 years ago. Right now, even Macbooks can be easily opened touching a few screws - and, yes, the newer models are getting progressively easier to service. Even the "non-replaceable" battery can be quite easily replaced! The same holds true for Toshiba, Asus, Dell and most other brands I can remember. But I think I know what you mean: you want to replace video-cards, change processors or maybe even the motherboard. A few years ago I would agree that would be interesting, but with the huge offer of external everything (yes, even videocards) along with the fact that lately every new processor requires a different chipset, I doubt this would be really useful. And let's not forget that the space inside notebooks is quite crammed. I find it incredible they are somewhat serviceable as it is right now. While it *is* possible to make the components even more accessible, this would certainly increase the size of the machines and probably sacrifice aesthetics (even if you don't mind this, lots of people do). Having said that, I remember that Acer (or was it Asus?) released a "build your own laptop" kit a while ago. It was somewhat popular in Brazil. One could buy an "empty" notebook with keyboard, screen and motherboard to add the rest of the components manually. I'll try to find this to post here. - FZero -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 12:17:02 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 08:17:02 -0400 Subject: Hardware Diagnostics (Was: A talent for repair) In-Reply-To: <4C4E72FB.2050708-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <514db86eda31018a5d98b69288755cee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20100726025916.GA13592@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C4E72FB.2050708@ss.org> Message-ID: <4C4ECE3E.6000701@rogers.com> Scott Sullivan wrote: > What would it take to get manufactures to making their products > serviceable again? One problem is service costs are much more than manufacturing costs. A tech's time to simply look at many devices costs more than buying a new one. My uncle ran across this many years ago. He had a TV repair business. Someone would come in with a cheap transistor radio and get annoyed when he told them it would cost more to repair than to buy a new one. Very often, the greatest cost of a repair is the time it takes to diagnose the problem and then to replace a part that costs pennies. Of course, the parts are often not available. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 13:01:59 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:01:59 -0400 Subject: Hardware Diagnostics (Was: A talent for repair) In-Reply-To: <4C4E72FB.2050708-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <514db86eda31018a5d98b69288755cee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20100726025916.GA13592@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C4E72FB.2050708@ss.org> Message-ID: On 7/27/10, Scott Sullivan wrote: > Dear List Members, > > The story quoted below reminds me how unverifiable our computer hardware > can be. > As such I wish to relay a story of my own experience and at the end > propose a question. > > I own an OLPC XO. > > For awhile after I got it I was experiencing strange behaviour when > using the keyboard. Wrong characters, the inability to use > ctrl-sequences. Like the owner of the Toshiba from the other story I > suspected that it might be a loose connection from the keyboard to the > main board. > > The OLPC XO was designed with serviceability in mind, so taking it apart > was rather easy with only three types of screws used in the whole design > (with spares located inside the casing!). But I found nothing to be a miss. > > What eventually allowed me to track down the issue was the built in > hardware diagnostics in the firmware (BIOS eqv.). > > The OLPC XO boot firmware includes visual diagnostics for all of it's > hardware components. > These include live trackpad data visualization, fish-eye generation on > the USB ports (checkable with an ossiliscope) and most important in my > case a live key press map. > With this diagnostic I was able to watch the keys as I pressed them and > after playing with it for a bit I noticed the Ctrl key was sticking. > > Now, this is not your normal keyboard in the OLPC XO, it's a fully > sealed membrane. It is also rather silly how I repaired the problem by > accidentally causing a rip in the membrane around the key. > > But to put this story in to perspective, if I had not had that tool in > the firmware, I would have never likely figured out the cause. > > My question to the list is this, > > What would it take to get manufactures to making their products > serviceable again? > > (And I don't want to hear "Fat Chance" or "can't beat greed" answers, > give the question a chance and come up with some constructive thoughts.) The answer is a variation on "can't beat greed". Ways need to be found which make it in the companies best interest to make serviceable/modifiable products. To offer a fairly recent real world example of how this can happen, have a look at the Linksys WRT54G router. Initially this was released running Linux, then Linksys found that by going to a proprietary OS they could reduce the cost per unit (using less memory than the Linux based version). For sales through places like "Future Shop" knocking a few dollars off the cost of each unit matter. On the other hand, the Linux community showed there was enough of a market to support continuing the modifiable version, thus we got the WRT54GL router... So, bottom line, and a hard question, how do we show the companies that people will pay a bit extra for modifiable/repairable hardware? Or even harder question, how would we get governments to impose rules re: making it possible to service hardware... Colin. > On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 06:43:04PM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >>> We have an older Toshiba laptop that's been used by various members of >>> the >>> family and eventually ended up being used by my wife Dorothy. A year ago, >>> the keyboard stopped working correctly, although the rest of the machine >>> was functional and we could use a USB keyboard instead. I took the >>> machine >>> as far appart as I dared, looking for a bad connection - at one point I >>> had most of it spread out on my bench - but couldn't find anything wrong. >>> >>> Dorothy got tired of this and bought a Mac. We put the Tosh in the >>> basement. >>> >>> Last week, Dorothy left for a vacation in Walton, NS, a former mining >>> town >>> *away* out in rural Nova Scotia. On a whim, she took the Tosh with her to >>> show to a local woman who is self trained in fixing computers. Marg is >>> about 65 and 'started in computers' a few years ago. I was pretty >>> skeptical this was going anywhere. >>> >>> Dorothy showed the computer to Marg and she very quickly determined that >>> a >>> couple of the function keys were pushed down and locked together. Using a >>> paper clip, she freed the keys and the keyboard worked fine. >>> >>> Some people, like Marg, have a real talent for repairing things. And it's >>> not necessarily those with an engineering degree ;). >>> > -- > Scott Sullivan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 13:19:16 2010 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:19:16 -0400 Subject: Hardware Diagnostics (Was: A talent for repair) In-Reply-To: References: <514db86eda31018a5d98b69288755cee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20100726025916.GA13592@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C4E72FB.2050708@ss.org> Message-ID: ... >> ? ? ?What would it take to get manufactures to making their products >> serviceable again? >> >> (And I don't want to hear "Fat Chance" or "can't beat greed" answers, >> give the question a chance and come up with some constructive thoughts.) > > The answer is a variation on "can't beat greed". Ways need to be found > which make it in the companies best interest to make > serviceable/modifiable products. ... > > So, bottom line, and a hard question, how do we show the companies > that people will pay a bit extra for modifiable/repairable hardware? A good start would be by purchasing the more serviceable products available, and more importantly registering the products and filling out related surveys to make clear that serviceability was an important factor in the purchase. Most companies, I believe, value this type of feedback because it can be reliably attached to some part of their revenue (ie a registered, confirmed, paying customer). > Or even harder question, how would we get governments to impose rules > re: making it possible to service hardware... LOLOLOLOL!!! Well, maybe in the EU. But I will not be holding my breath waiting for *our* government to impose such regulation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 15:41:30 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:41:30 -0400 Subject: Hardware Diagnostics (Was: A talent for repair) In-Reply-To: References: <514db86eda31018a5d98b69288755cee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20100726025916.GA13592@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C4E72FB.2050708@ss.org> Message-ID: <20100727154130.GP2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 07:40:04AM -0400, Fabio FZero wrote: > Well, that's a bit relative. If you're talking notebooks, things have > actually improved lately. It was almost impossible to do a simple > memory or hard drive upgrade on a laptop 10-12 years ago. Right now, > even Macbooks can be easily opened touching a few screws - and, yes, > the newer models are getting progressively easier to service. Even the > "non-replaceable" battery can be quite easily replaced! > > The same holds true for Toshiba, Asus, Dell and most other brands I > can remember. But I think I know what you mean: you want to replace > video-cards, change processors or maybe even the motherboard. A few > years ago I would agree that would be interesting, but with the huge > offer of external everything (yes, even videocards) along with the > fact that lately every new processor requires a different chipset, I > doubt this would be really useful. > > And let's not forget that the space inside notebooks is quite crammed. > I find it incredible they are somewhat serviceable as it is right now. > While it *is* possible to make the components even more accessible, > this would certainly increase the size of the machines and probably > sacrifice aesthetics (even if you don't mind this, lots of people do). > > Having said that, I remember that Acer (or was it Asus?) released a > "build your own laptop" kit a while ago. It was somewhat popular in > Brazil. One could buy an "empty" notebook with keyboard, screen and > motherboard to add the rest of the components manually. I'll try to > find this to post here. Asus still does I believe. Unfortunate, other than cpu, ram, HD and sometimes the optical drive, what choices do you have? The screen is part of the kit, the motherboard, chipset, video chip, pointing device, all ports, etc. Maybe you get to pick your own wifi card too, but really, what is the benefit? I looked at them before and really couldn't find a reason to bother. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 16:23:34 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:23:34 -0400 Subject: Cisco boxes... Message-ID: I am interested in getting my Cisco CCNA certification. With that in mind I am interested in getting some Cisco routers to set-up a test network. I have an OLD Cisco 3000 router. Through one my usual sources I may be able to get some (all?) of the following to add to my Cisco 3000: - Two Cisco 2501 - One Cisco 3600 with one ethernet card 2FE 2W and 3 empty slots - One Cisco 2820 - One Cisco 2900 Question is which of the above would be most desirable / useful in a CCNA training situation? Thanks. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 16:23:55 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:23:55 -0400 Subject: Hardware Diagnostics (Was: A talent for repair) In-Reply-To: <4C4E72FB.2050708-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <514db86eda31018a5d98b69288755cee.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20100726025916.GA13592@node1.opengeometry.net> <4C4E72FB.2050708@ss.org> Message-ID: <20100727162355.GA3829@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 01:47:39AM -0400, Scott Sullivan wrote: > My question to the list is this, > > What would it take to get manufactures to making their products > serviceable again? > > (And I don't want to hear "Fat Chance" or "can't beat greed" answers, > give the question a chance and come up with some constructive thoughts.) We have this situation because "labour cost >>> part cost". So, either lower the labour cost, or raise the part cost, or both. The best way is to "entice/force" people to buy things that last long time. The labour cost will adjust to market condition. But, it's difficult to do in Canada, since we don't make the parts. If we ban all "sub-standard" imports, then retail stores here will be empty. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 16:31:53 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:31:53 -0400 Subject: Cisco boxes... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100727123153.5f7eb269.tleslie@tcn.net> Seeing as how Cisco is moving to Linux, and only becoming a HW maker, the answer would be "none!". Or, just make sure you get the models that run the Cisco Linux OS, which off the top of my head is none of the ones you mentioned? Cisco IOS is crap (like that had to be clarified), they finally figured that out, and have moved on to Linux, which is good on them. Having said that, there will be plenty of historic set ups for some time to come, but I doubt it will be worth the pain. From what I have read, they will be "converting" a certain subset of their OS commands to be backended by linux, but I am not sure to what extent. tl On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:23:34 -0400 Colin McGregor wrote: > I am interested in getting my Cisco CCNA certification. With that in > mind I am interested in getting some Cisco routers to set-up a test > network. I have an OLD Cisco 3000 router. Through one my usual sources > I may be able to get some (all?) of the following to add to my Cisco > 3000: > > - Two Cisco 2501 > - One Cisco 3600 with one ethernet card 2FE 2W and 3 empty slots > - One Cisco 2820 > - One Cisco 2900 > > Question is which of the above would be most desirable / useful in a > CCNA training situation? > > Thanks. > > Colin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 16:36:44 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:36:44 -0400 Subject: poor Raid5 write speed Message-ID: <20100727163644.GA3861@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi all, My Software Raid5 has lower write speed than a single harddisk. I tried copying whole bunch of *.iso - from Raid5 to a separate harddisk --> 130 MB/s - from the separate harddisk to Raid5 --> 110 MB/s Is this normal? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 16:39:43 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:39:43 -0400 Subject: Cisco boxes... In-Reply-To: <20100727123153.5f7eb269.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100727123153.5f7eb269.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <4C4F0BCF.80109@rogers.com> ted leslie wrote: > Cisco IOS is crap I haven't done much with IOS, but I have worked a lot with Adtran's AOS, which is a clone of IOS. Yeah, it is a bit awkward at times. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 16:51:02 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:51:02 -0400 Subject: poor Raid5 write speed In-Reply-To: <20100727163644.GA3861-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100727163644.GA3861@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4C4F0E76.5060801@alteeve.com> On 10-07-27 12:36 PM, William Park wrote: > Hi all, > > My Software Raid5 has lower write speed than a single harddisk. > I tried copying whole bunch of *.iso > > - from Raid5 to a separate harddisk --> 130 MB/s > - from the separate harddisk to Raid5 --> 110 MB/s > > Is this normal? You're probably seeing overhead from the parity calculations. Last time I saw the numbers run, it needed ~6 drives for the benefits of stripping to outdo the overhead of parity on software. Of course, this depends on a lot of things so use "6" as a rough number. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 17:28:32 2010 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:28:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Cisco boxes... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <637605.21188.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi, When I got my CCNA I used Linux boxes and Zebra http://www.zebra.org/ for learning routing (many commands are the same as in Cisco routers; Cisco proprietary stuff is what's missing). You can use virtual machines with Xen or VirtualBox to replicate a lab. Note that you don't need a lab to pass the CCNA, it's so easy that a good book will suffice, but if you plan to go on to the next certifications then it may be a good idea to set it up. --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com --- On Tue, 7/27/10, Colin McGregor wrote: > From: Colin McGregor > Subject: [TLUG]: Cisco boxes... > To: "tlug" > Received: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 12:23 PM > I am interested in getting my Cisco > CCNA certification. With that in > mind I am interested in getting some Cisco routers to > set-up a test > network. I have an OLD Cisco 3000 router. Through one my > usual sources > I may be able to get some (all?) of the following to add to > my Cisco > 3000: > > - Two Cisco 2501 > - One Cisco 3600 with one ethernet card 2FE 2W and 3 empty > slots > - One Cisco 2820 > - One Cisco 2900 > > Question is which of the above would be most desirable / > useful in a > CCNA training situation? > > Thanks. > > Colin. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 19:45:18 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:45:18 -0400 Subject: poor Raid5 write speed In-Reply-To: <20100727163644.GA3861-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100727163644.GA3861@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100727194518.GQ2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:36:44PM -0400, William Park wrote: > My Software Raid5 has lower write speed than a single harddisk. > I tried copying whole bunch of *.iso > > - from Raid5 to a separate harddisk --> 130 MB/s > - from the separate harddisk to Raid5 --> 110 MB/s > > Is this normal? Depends on your setup. What raid block size? How many disks in the raid? What stride size is your filesystem using? Which filesystem? Which controller and on which bus? Which CPU? Here is what I get: mythtv64:~# hdparm -tT /dev/sd[abcd] /dev/md[012] mythtv64:~# hdparm -tT /dev/sd[abcd] /dev/md[012] /dev/sda: Timing cached reads: 6248 MB in 2.00 seconds = 3126.86 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 296 MB in 3.01 seconds = 98.46 MB/sec /dev/sdb: Timing cached reads: 6012 MB in 2.00 seconds = 3007.89 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 286 MB in 3.01 seconds = 95.00 MB/sec /dev/sdc: Timing cached reads: 6394 MB in 2.00 seconds = 3199.19 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 276 MB in 3.17 seconds = 87.09 MB/sec /dev/sdd: Timing cached reads: 5274 MB in 2.00 seconds = 2638.96 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 298 MB in 3.01 seconds = 99.06 MB/sec /dev/md0: Timing cached reads: 5830 MB in 2.00 seconds = 2916.87 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 272 MB in 3.00 seconds = 90.54 MB/sec /dev/md1: Timing cached reads: 5156 MB in 2.00 seconds = 2580.49 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 302 MB in 3.01 seconds = 100.21 MB/sec /dev/md2: Timing cached reads: 6388 MB in 2.00 seconds = 3195.83 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 700 MB in 3.04 seconds = 230.24 MB/sec md0 and md1 are raid1 on sda/b and sdc/d respectively, while md2 is raid5 across all 4 disks. So I get about 100MB/s on one disk, and about 230MB/s on raid5 on 4 disks. I am certainly satisfied with that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 19:50:48 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:50:48 -0400 Subject: Cisco boxes... In-Reply-To: <20100727123153.5f7eb269.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100727123153.5f7eb269.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20100727195048.GR2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:31:53PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > Seeing as how Cisco is moving to Linux, and only becoming a HW maker, > the answer would be "none!". > Or, just make sure you get the models that run the Cisco Linux OS, > which off the top of my head is none of the ones you mentioned? > > Cisco IOS is crap (like that had to be clarified), they finally figured that out, and have moved on to Linux, > which is good on them. Having said that, there will be plenty of historic set ups for some time to come, > but I doubt it will be worth the pain. From what I have read, they will be "converting" a certain > subset of their OS commands to be backended by linux, but I am not sure to what extent. Well the high end Cisco systems use XR instead, which is transactional, unlike the original IOS. That was one of the old IOS system's main flaws. I believe XR runs on QNX, but I am not sure. The system I work on has a command line similar to Cisco XR (although certainly not exactly the same, the hardware and features are too different), and of course runs Debian underneath with tail-f's confd on top. Amazing how many users insist on things being Cisco like. Makes me wonder if Cisco is going the same route (I believe they are a customer of tail-f's). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 20:58:40 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Cisco boxes... In-Reply-To: <20100727123153.5f7eb269.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20100727123153.5f7eb269.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: | From: ted leslie | Seeing as how Cisco is moving to Linux, and only becoming a HW maker, | the answer would be "none!". Really? The gossip that I've heard is that Cisco hates Linux (GPL). Linksys (bought by Cisco) used Linux for a lot of routers but wasn't that thrilled by GPL either. They fought compliance a few times too. I've not even pubicised my own (ignored) request for them to comply with GPL on FreeS/WAN of which I am a copyright holder. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 21:09:04 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:09:04 -0400 Subject: poor Raid5 write speed In-Reply-To: <20100727194518.GQ2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100727163644.GA3861@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100727194518.GQ2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100727210904.GA5068@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 03:45:18PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:36:44PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > My Software Raid5 has lower write speed than a single harddisk. > > I tried copying whole bunch of *.iso > > > > - from Raid5 to a separate harddisk --> 130 MB/s > > - from the separate harddisk to Raid5 --> 110 MB/s > > > > Is this normal? > > Depends on your setup. > > What raid block size? chunksize = 64kB > How many disks in the raid? 4 x 1TB > What stride size is your filesystem using? > Which filesystem? mkfs.ext4 -m0.1 -E stride=16,stripe-width=48 where stride = chunksize / blocksize = 64kB/4kB = 16 stripe-width = stride * (4 - 1) = 16 * 3 = 48 > Which controller and on which bus? nVidia MP55 (nForce 570 Ultra, Asus M2N-E). > > Which CPU? Single-core Athlon64 LE-1620 (2.4GHz, 1MB, 45W). DDR2-667 (AM2 special, 8GB) > > Here is what I get: > > mythtv64:~# hdparm -tT /dev/sd[abcd] /dev/md[012] > > mythtv64:~# hdparm -tT /dev/sd[abcd] /dev/md[012] > > /dev/sda: > Timing cached reads: 6248 MB in 2.00 seconds = 3126.86 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 296 MB in 3.01 seconds = 98.46 MB/sec > > /dev/sdb: > Timing cached reads: 6012 MB in 2.00 seconds = 3007.89 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 286 MB in 3.01 seconds = 95.00 MB/sec > > /dev/sdc: > Timing cached reads: 6394 MB in 2.00 seconds = 3199.19 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 276 MB in 3.17 seconds = 87.09 MB/sec > > /dev/sdd: > Timing cached reads: 5274 MB in 2.00 seconds = 2638.96 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 298 MB in 3.01 seconds = 99.06 MB/sec > > /dev/md0: > Timing cached reads: 5830 MB in 2.00 seconds = 2916.87 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 272 MB in 3.00 seconds = 90.54 MB/sec > > /dev/md1: > Timing cached reads: 5156 MB in 2.00 seconds = 2580.49 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 302 MB in 3.01 seconds = 100.21 MB/sec > > /dev/md2: > Timing cached reads: 6388 MB in 2.00 seconds = 3195.83 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 700 MB in 3.04 seconds = 230.24 MB/sec > > md0 and md1 are raid1 on sda/b and sdc/d respectively, while md2 is > raid5 across all 4 disks. So I get about 100MB/s on one disk, and about > 230MB/s on raid5 on 4 disks. I am certainly satisfied with that. # hdparm -tT /dev/sd[bcdef] /dev/md5 /dev/sdb: Timing cached reads: 1684 MB in 2.00 seconds = 842.19 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 392 MB in 3.00 seconds = 130.63 MB/sec /dev/sdc: Timing cached reads: 1756 MB in 2.00 seconds = 877.90 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 342 MB in 3.01 seconds = 113.56 MB/sec /dev/sdd: Timing cached reads: 1738 MB in 2.00 seconds = 868.45 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 288 MB in 3.00 seconds = 95.98 MB/sec /dev/sde: Timing cached reads: 1842 MB in 2.00 seconds = 919.92 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 300 MB in 3.02 seconds = 99.23 MB/sec /dev/sdf: Timing cached reads: 1790 MB in 2.00 seconds = 895.27 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 358 MB in 3.00 seconds = 119.19 MB/sec /dev/md5: Timing cached reads: 1706 MB in 2.00 seconds = 852.76 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 786 MB in 3.00 seconds = 261.62 MB/sec /dev/sdb is my root disk, and it does 130MB/s for both sequential read and write. That's good. /dev/md5 is Raid5 over /dev/sd[cdef]. Its sequential read is 260MB/s, but sequential write is 110MB/s. Now, that's bad. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 27 21:40:39 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:40:39 -0400 Subject: poor Raid5 write speed In-Reply-To: <20100727210904.GA5068-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100727163644.GA3861@node1.opengeometry.net> <20100727194518.GQ2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100727210904.GA5068@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100727214039.GS2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 05:09:04PM -0400, William Park wrote: > chunksize = 64kB Sounds decent. > > How many disks in the raid? > > 4 x 1TB Well I run 4 1TB WD caviar black drives, so that seems similar. > mkfs.ext4 -m0.1 -E stride=16,stripe-width=48 > where > stride = chunksize / blocksize = 64kB/4kB = 16 > stripe-width = stride * (4 - 1) = 16 * 3 = 48 I use ext3 still, but I think I used very similar settings. > nVidia MP55 (nForce 570 Ultra, Asus M2N-E). Mine is an ICH9 controller. > Single-core Athlon64 LE-1620 (2.4GHz, 1MB, 45W). > DDR2-667 (AM2 special, 8GB) I have a Core 2 Quad Q6600. So a significantly higher amount of CPU power to run the raid. > # hdparm -tT /dev/sd[bcdef] /dev/md5 > > /dev/sdb: > Timing cached reads: 1684 MB in 2.00 seconds = 842.19 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 392 MB in 3.00 seconds = 130.63 MB/sec > > /dev/sdc: > Timing cached reads: 1756 MB in 2.00 seconds = 877.90 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 342 MB in 3.01 seconds = 113.56 MB/sec > > /dev/sdd: > Timing cached reads: 1738 MB in 2.00 seconds = 868.45 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 288 MB in 3.00 seconds = 95.98 MB/sec > > /dev/sde: > Timing cached reads: 1842 MB in 2.00 seconds = 919.92 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 300 MB in 3.02 seconds = 99.23 MB/sec > > /dev/sdf: > Timing cached reads: 1790 MB in 2.00 seconds = 895.27 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 358 MB in 3.00 seconds = 119.19 MB/sec > > /dev/md5: > Timing cached reads: 1706 MB in 2.00 seconds = 852.76 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 786 MB in 3.00 seconds = 261.62 MB/sec > > /dev/sdb is my root disk, and it does 130MB/s for both sequential read > and write. That's good. /dev/md5 is Raid5 over /dev/sd[cdef]. Its > sequential read is 260MB/s, but sequential write is 110MB/s. Now, > that's bad. Well I haven't tested writing, but 260MB/s read is perfectly fine. For writing I get around 100MB/s according to dd. I am not sure what the raw write speed of the disks are. It is certainly lower than the read speed. ext3 isn't exactly known for great write performance after all, but neither are harddisks in general compared to reading. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 28 01:33:24 2010 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:33:24 -0400 Subject: "C++ Programmers are Islamic terrorists!!" Message-ID: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news-politics/c-programmers-are-islamist- terrorists-t10628.html The stupid, it burns!!!!! -- Stephen Fry: It is not science that is arrogant: science can be defined as ?humility before the facts? ? it is those who refuse to submit to testing and make unsubstantiated claims that are arrogant. Arrogant and unjust. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 28 02:04:06 2010 From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq Saif) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:04:06 -0400 Subject: "C++ Programmers are Islamic terrorists!!" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C4F9016.4030203@asininetech.com> Nice find. This made my day. Thank you very much. :) Gary Layng wrote: > http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news-politics/c-programmers-are-islamist- > terrorists-t10628.html > > The stupid, it burns!!!!! > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 29 15:52:29 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: adding 1G ethernet to a 100M network Message-ID: My home ethernet is all 100M. I'm accumulating a few devices with 1G interfaces. I assume that I can add a 1G switch, connect it to one of my 100M switches, and connect the nearby 1G interfaces to the new switch. Does this cause any problems? Are there better ways to do this? Are Jumbo Frames something I should consider? I assume that means telling the various nodes that Jumbo Frames are OK. My 1G switch says that it handles Jumbo Frames. All switches are unmanaged. Is there a good/easy/cheap way to test if a cable is working well for 1G traffic? Some of my home-made cables might not be great. I have used Cat5e cable for years. Is Cat6 better for this purpose? I don't actually have much traffic that would go at 1G end-to-end even if I put all my nearby 1G devices on one 1G switch. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 29 16:01:47 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:01:47 -0400 Subject: adding 1G ethernet to a 100M network In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C51A5EB.90600@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > My home ethernet is all 100M. > > I'm accumulating a few devices with 1G interfaces. > > I assume that I can add a 1G switch, connect it to one of my 100M > switches, and connect the nearby 1G interfaces to the new switch. > > Does this cause any problems? Are there better ways to do this? > Switches will automagically detect and configure for the correct speed. You could have a mix of 10M, 100M and 1G on your switch without problem. > Are Jumbo Frames something I should consider? I assume that means telling > the various nodes that Jumbo Frames are OK. My 1G switch says that it > handles Jumbo Frames. > Jumbo frames are useful only if you're sending large amounts of data and should be enabled only if all devices on the network can handle them. > All switches are unmanaged. > > Is there a good/easy/cheap way to test if a cable is working well for 1G > traffic? Some of my home-made cables might not be great. > While there are cable testers, I don't know of any cheap methods, short of pushing a lot of data through them and watching for errors. > I have used Cat5e cable for years. Is Cat6 better for this purpose? > For short distances, probably no difference. > I don't actually have much traffic that would go at 1G end-to-end even if > I put all my nearby 1G devices on one 1G switch. > Then there may be no point in buying a 1 Gb switch, as 100 Mb will likely do fine. However, if you have to buy a new switch anyway, then go for it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 29 17:00:57 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:00:57 -0400 Subject: adding 1G ethernet to a 100M network In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100729170057.GT2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 11:52:29AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > My home ethernet is all 100M. > > I'm accumulating a few devices with 1G interfaces. > > I assume that I can add a 1G switch, connect it to one of my 100M > switches, and connect the nearby 1G interfaces to the new switch. > > Does this cause any problems? Are there better ways to do this? Works great. Can't do it any better. > Are Jumbo Frames something I should consider? I assume that means telling > the various nodes that Jumbo Frames are OK. My 1G switch says that it > handles Jumbo Frames. Probably not. > All switches are unmanaged. > > Is there a good/easy/cheap way to test if a cable is working well for 1G > traffic? Some of my home-made cables might not be great. For short cables it generally isn't a problem. > I have used Cat5e cable for years. Is Cat6 better for this purpose? Both are fine. > I don't actually have much traffic that would go at 1G end-to-end even if > I put all my nearby 1G devices on one 1G switch. Still nice to have. I did it at home. Actually with my current router, it does gigabit as well, so everything now has gigabit (assuming the machine does gigabit that is). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 29 18:38:49 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:38:49 -0400 Subject: adding 1G ethernet to a 100M network In-Reply-To: <4C51A5EB.90600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C51A5EB.90600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4C51CAB9.4040908@dinamis.com> On 07/29/2010 12:01 PM, James Knott wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> My home ethernet is all 100M. >> >> I'm accumulating a few devices with 1G interfaces. >> >> I assume that I can add a 1G switch, connect it to one of my 100M >> switches, and connect the nearby 1G interfaces to the new switch. >> >> Does this cause any problems? Are there better ways to do this? > > Switches will automagically detect and configure for the correct speed. > You could have a mix of 10M, 100M and 1G on your switch without problem. There is a caveat. At a colo facility recently, we installed a gigabit D-Link switch figuring that it would "just work". The network performance of any of the machines connected to that switch was abysmal even though the colo facility had provided us with a 100Gbit/s connection to their Cisco switch. Apparently, consumer grade switches like the D-Link and others cannot auto-negotiate to the highest possible rate if the other end isn't configured to auto-negotiate. The other end was configured to be 100Gbit/s, full-duplex. The D-Link would fall back to 10Mbit/s, half-duplex, thus explaining the poor network performance. Replacing the D-Link with a Cisco (not Linksys) switch and setting it to 100Mbit/s, full-duplex was the solution. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 29 18:51:38 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:51:38 -0400 Subject: adding 1G ethernet to a 100M network In-Reply-To: <4C51CAB9.4040908-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C51A5EB.90600@rogers.com> <4C51CAB9.4040908@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20100729145138.2df2a13b.tleslie@tcn.net> 100gb/s ethernet? i am just getting used to people talking 10gbe and considering it for home, but its 1000$ for a "cheap" nic, please tell me what nic and switch are you using for 100gb/s connectivity? I know it exists but I thought that was strictly super computer cluster territory. (and sell your house to buy a couple of 100gb/s nics). tl On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:38:49 -0400 CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 07/29/2010 12:01 PM, James Knott wrote: > > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> My home ethernet is all 100M. > >> > >> I'm accumulating a few devices with 1G interfaces. > >> > >> I assume that I can add a 1G switch, connect it to one of my 100M > >> switches, and connect the nearby 1G interfaces to the new switch. > >> > >> Does this cause any problems? Are there better ways to do this? > > > > Switches will automagically detect and configure for the correct speed. > > You could have a mix of 10M, 100M and 1G on your switch without problem. > > There is a caveat. At a colo facility recently, we installed a gigabit > D-Link switch figuring that it would "just work". The network > performance of any of the machines connected to that switch was abysmal > even though the colo facility had provided us with a 100Gbit/s > connection to their Cisco switch. Apparently, consumer grade switches > like the D-Link and others cannot auto-negotiate to the highest possible > rate if the other end isn't configured to auto-negotiate. The other end > was configured to be 100Gbit/s, full-duplex. The D-Link would fall back > to 10Mbit/s, half-duplex, thus explaining the poor network performance. > Replacing the D-Link with a Cisco (not Linksys) switch and setting it to > 100Mbit/s, full-duplex was the solution. > -- > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay > Dinamis > 1419-3266 Yonge St. > Toronto, ON > Canada M4N 3P6 > > > +1 416-410-3326 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 29 18:57:33 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:57:33 -0400 Subject: adding 1G ethernet to a 100M network In-Reply-To: <4C51CAB9.4040908-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C51A5EB.90600@rogers.com> <4C51CAB9.4040908@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20100729185733.GU2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 02:38:49PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > There is a caveat. At a colo facility recently, we installed a gigabit > D-Link switch figuring that it would "just work". The network > performance of any of the machines connected to that switch was abysmal > even though the colo facility had provided us with a 100Gbit/s > connection to their Cisco switch. Apparently, consumer grade switches > like the D-Link and others cannot auto-negotiate to the highest possible > rate if the other end isn't configured to auto-negotiate. The other end > was configured to be 100Gbit/s, full-duplex. The D-Link would fall back > to 10Mbit/s, half-duplex, thus explaining the poor network performance. > Replacing the D-Link with a Cisco (not Linksys) switch and setting it to > 100Mbit/s, full-duplex was the solution. 100Gbit/s? I don't think I believe that. Now if one end doesn't autonegotiate, then you fall back to half duplex. You still get the speed right though, but because of colisions (or at least what the network port thinks are collisions) you get pretty bad performance. To me, it is very stupid of the colo facility to not use autonegotiation by default. After all if you don't know to set your port to a fixed setting on your machine, you get the exact same problem. It is really just plain dumb of them to do so. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 29 19:08:12 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:08:12 -0400 Subject: adding 1G ethernet to a 100M network In-Reply-To: <20100729185733.GU2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4C51A5EB.90600@rogers.com> <4C51CAB9.4040908@dinamis.com> <20100729185733.GU2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4C51D19C.7010608@dinamis.com> On 07/29/2010 02:57 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 02:38:49PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> There is a caveat. At a colo facility recently, we installed a gigabit >> D-Link switch figuring that it would "just work". The network >> performance of any of the machines connected to that switch was abysmal >> even though the colo facility had provided us with a 100Gbit/s >> connection to their Cisco switch. Apparently, consumer grade switches >> like the D-Link and others cannot auto-negotiate to the highest possible >> rate if the other end isn't configured to auto-negotiate. The other end >> was configured to be 100Gbit/s, full-duplex. The D-Link would fall back >> to 10Mbit/s, half-duplex, thus explaining the poor network performance. >> Replacing the D-Link with a Cisco (not Linksys) switch and setting it to >> 100Mbit/s, full-duplex was the solution. > > 100Gbit/s? I don't think I believe that. > > Now if one end doesn't autonegotiate, then you fall back to half duplex. > You still get the speed right though, but because of colisions (or at > least what the network port thinks are collisions) you get pretty bad > performance. > > To me, it is very stupid of the colo facility to not use autonegotiation > by default. After all if you don't know to set your port to a fixed > setting on your machine, you get the exact same problem. It is really > just plain dumb of them to do so. By fixing the rate, they can differentiate between 10M, 100M, and 1000M service and charge accordingly. This episode explained why in another colo facility where we didn't have a switch between the server and the colo facility's switch, we had to use ethtool to set the rate or again, we'd fall back to 10M, half-duplex. That colo facility was never able to explain why and had just shrugged it off. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 29 19:37:41 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:37:41 -0400 Subject: adding 1G ethernet to a 100M network In-Reply-To: <4C51D19C.7010608-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C51A5EB.90600@rogers.com> <4C51CAB9.4040908@dinamis.com> <20100729185733.GU2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4C51D19C.7010608@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4C51D885.1060605@rogers.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 07/29/2010 02:57 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 02:38:49PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >>> There is a caveat. At a colo facility recently, we installed a gigabit >>> D-Link switch figuring that it would "just work". The network >>> performance of any of the machines connected to that switch was abysmal >>> even though the colo facility had provided us with a 100Gbit/s >>> connection to their Cisco switch. Apparently, consumer grade switches >>> like the D-Link and others cannot auto-negotiate to the highest >>> possible >>> rate if the other end isn't configured to auto-negotiate. The other end >>> was configured to be 100Gbit/s, full-duplex. The D-Link would fall back >>> to 10Mbit/s, half-duplex, thus explaining the poor network performance. >>> Replacing the D-Link with a Cisco (not Linksys) switch and setting >>> it to >>> 100Mbit/s, full-duplex was the solution. >> >> 100Gbit/s? I don't think I believe that. >> >> Now if one end doesn't autonegotiate, then you fall back to half duplex. >> You still get the speed right though, but because of colisions (or at >> least what the network port thinks are collisions) you get pretty bad >> performance. >> >> To me, it is very stupid of the colo facility to not use autonegotiation >> by default. After all if you don't know to set your port to a fixed >> setting on your machine, you get the exact same problem. It is really >> just plain dumb of them to do so. > > By fixing the rate, they can differentiate between 10M, 100M, and > 1000M service and charge accordingly. This episode explained why in > another colo facility where we didn't have a switch between the server > and the colo facility's switch, we had to use ethtool to set the rate > or again, we'd fall back to 10M, half-duplex. That colo facility was > never able to explain why and had just shrugged it off. Regardless, that should only affect the one port, not the entire switch. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 29 19:42:20 2010 From: instantkamera-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (aaron d) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:42:20 -0400 Subject: adding 1G ethernet to a 100M network In-Reply-To: <4C51D19C.7010608-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C51A5EB.90600@rogers.com> <4C51CAB9.4040908@dinamis.com> <20100729185733.GU2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4C51D19C.7010608@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 3:08 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > By fixing the rate, they can differentiate between 10M, 100M, and 1000M > service and charge accordingly. This episode explained why in another colo > facility where we didn't have a switch between the server and the colo > facility's switch, we had to use ethtool to set the rate or again, we'd fall > back to 10M, half-duplex. That colo facility was never able to explain why > and had just shrugged it off. > That may be, but it is a violation of the IEEE802.3ab spec that states autoneg is mandatory for GigE and above. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 29 19:58:52 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:58:52 -0400 Subject: adding 1G ethernet to a 100M network In-Reply-To: <4C51D19C.7010608-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4C51A5EB.90600@rogers.com> <4C51CAB9.4040908@dinamis.com> <20100729185733.GU2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4C51D19C.7010608@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20100729195852.GV2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 03:08:12PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > By fixing the rate, they can differentiate between 10M, 100M, and 1000M > service and charge accordingly. This episode explained why in another > colo facility where we didn't have a switch between the server and the > colo facility's switch, we had to use ethtool to set the rate or again, > we'd fall back to 10M, half-duplex. That colo facility was never able to > explain why and had just shrugged it off. The proper way to do that is to configure autonegotiation and specify what to advertise. Turning off autonegotiation is stupid. If the port advertises "I can only do 10Mbit" then that is the speed the ports will negotiate at. Any decent managed switch can do that. So there is no excuse for what they are doing other than incompetence. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 29 20:00:17 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:00:17 -0400 Subject: adding 1G ethernet to a 100M network In-Reply-To: References: <4C51A5EB.90600@rogers.com> <4C51CAB9.4040908@dinamis.com> <20100729185733.GU2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4C51D19C.7010608@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20100729200017.GW2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 03:42:20PM -0400, aaron d wrote: > That may be, but it is a violation of the IEEE802.3ab spec that states > autoneg is mandatory for GigE and above. Yeah there is that part too, since GigE requires it for pin assignment and master selection. I suspect this port was 100Mbit Full Duplex (not 100Gbit as originally stated), so GigE rules don't apply. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 29 20:28:48 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:28:48 -0400 Subject: adding 1G ethernet to a 100M network In-Reply-To: <20100729200017.GW2633-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4C51A5EB.90600@rogers.com> <4C51CAB9.4040908@dinamis.com> <20100729185733.GU2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4C51D19C.7010608@dinamis.com> <20100729200017.GW2633@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4C51E480.4090903@dinamis.com> On 07/29/2010 04:00 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 03:42:20PM -0400, aaron d wrote: >> That may be, but it is a violation of the IEEE802.3ab spec that states >> autoneg is mandatory for GigE and above. > > Yeah there is that part too, since GigE requires it for pin assignment > and master selection. I suspect this port was 100Mbit Full Duplex > (not 100Gbit as originally stated), so GigE rules don't apply. Oops, sorry. That was a typo. It wasn't 100Gbit. It was a 1Gbit port that had been set to 100Mbit/s full-duplex. I don't know why it wasn't possible to set that port to auto-negotiate. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 29 23:35:20 2010 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:35:20 -0400 Subject: scared to close OpenOffice Message-ID: <4C521038.8010800@chrisaitken.net> OpenOffice recovery seems to be out of whack. It's always worked well for me. We seem to get a lot of short power outages in Timmins. I am grateful on cold booting to see OpenOffice offer to recover files that were open. Until recently... Twice now after closing files then closing OpenOffice, upon reopening OpenOffice I am offered a restore of a couple of files. I accept this then it saves an earlier version of the file. It's good that I had done a backup to my USB terabyte drive. I restored a critical file from there. There is no reboot involved here - just reopening OpenOffice. I'm scared to close Openoffice now. What to do? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 00:31:49 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:31:49 -0400 Subject: scared to close OpenOffice In-Reply-To: <4C521038.8010800-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C521038.8010800@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <4C521D75.7050908@utoronto.ca> On 07/29/2010 07:35 PM, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > OpenOffice recovery seems to be out of whack. It's always worked well > for me. We seem to get a lot of short power outages in Timmins. I am > grateful on cold booting to see OpenOffice offer to recover files that > were open. Until recently... > > Twice now after closing files then closing OpenOffice, upon reopening > OpenOffice I am offered a restore of a couple of files. I accept this > then it saves an earlier version of the file. It's good that I had done > a backup to my USB terabyte drive. I restored a critical file from > there. There is no reboot involved here - just reopening OpenOffice. > > I'm scared to close Openoffice now. > > What to do? Buy a good quality UPS. How long are the power outages? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 03:17:17 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 23:17:17 -0400 Subject: Trying to run remote X [solved] In-Reply-To: <20100725225220.GA14287-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100725225220.GA14287@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100730031717.GA22462@waltdnes.org> I asked one of the unix gurus at work, who pointed me to the "xhost" command. My physical machine has IP address 192.168.123.249. I run... xhost +192.168.123.249 on my machine (the native 64-bit host), and then on the 32-bit guest I run... export DISPLAY=192.168.123.249:0.0 wine c:/4nec2/exe/4nec2X.exe ...the program windows come up on the 64-bit host. How I get onto the guest doesn't matter. I have the option of either ssh-ing into the 32-bit guest (with X forwarding enabled) or simply switching to the QEMU-KVM window, running the 2 commands, and switching back to the 64-bit host. Simple "xhost +" would also "work", but I don't like the (in)security implications. It does seem weird that I have to enable my own IP address with xhost. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 17:46:08 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 13:46:08 -0400 Subject: Does Sun JDK have 64 bit binaries? Message-ID: Afternoon, Wonder if someone know if there is a 64 bit java. The reason I ask is, I headed out to Sun website, downloaded what apparently looked like a 64 bit jdk but when I extracted it, all I find is 32 bit RPM. How do you guys check if the version installed is 64 then? I googled, but I can not find an article that explain the 32 bit RPMs. This is on Centos 5.5 [root at william ~]# chmod a+x jdk-6u21-linux-x64-rpm.bin [root at william ~]# ./jdk-6u21-linux-x64-rpm.bin Unpacking... Checksumming... Extracting... UnZipSFX 5.50 of 17 February 2002, by Info-ZIP (Zip-Bugs-x3A+iGeyBSfgpn9g0Uvcdg at public.gmane.org). inflating: jdk-6u21-linux-amd64.rpm inflating: sun-javadb-common-10.5.3-0.2.i386.rpm inflating: sun-javadb-core-10.5.3-0.2.i386.rpm inflating: sun-javadb-client-10.5.3-0.2.i386.rpm inflating: sun-javadb-demo-10.5.3-0.2.i386.rpm inflating: sun-javadb-docs-10.5.3-0.2.i386.rpm inflating: sun-javadb-javadoc-10.5.3-0.2.i386.rpm Preparing... ########################################### [100%] 1:jdk ########################################### [100%] Unpacking JAR files... rt.jar... jsse.jar... charsets.jar... ............. ...... William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 18:00:14 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:00:14 -0400 Subject: rsync doesn't copy dotfiles? Message-ID: <20100730180014.GA22495@yam.witteman.ca> I find a vexing problem - I am backing up my home directory with rsync "rsync -rlptoD --exclude 'vids' --exclude 'crap' /home/willyyam/* /mnt/mybook/.", and it does what I would hope it does, except that it does not copy any dotfiles or dotdirectories. Reading through the documentation, it seems like it should copy dotfiles, but something is amiss, because it is not. Anyone have a suggestion as to what I'm doing wrong? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 18:03:43 2010 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:03:43 -0400 Subject: rsync doesn't copy dotfiles? In-Reply-To: <20100730180014.GA22495-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100730180014.GA22495@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 2:00 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I find a vexing problem - I am backing up my home directory with rsync > "rsync -rlptoD --exclude 'vids' --exclude 'crap' /home/willyyam/* > /mnt/mybook/.", and it does what I would hope it does, except that it > does not copy any dotfiles or dotdirectories. ?Reading through the > documentation, it seems like it should copy dotfiles, but something is > amiss, because it is not. > > Anyone have a suggestion as to what I'm doing wrong? When you say "*", that excludes .dotfiles. Try: rsync -rlptoD --exclude 'vids' --exclude 'crap' /home/willyyam/ /mnt/mybook/ -Vic Vic Gedris - http://vic.gedris.org Toronto, Ontario, Canada - http://www.junctiontriangle.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 19:03:17 2010 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:03:17 -0400 Subject: Does Sun JDK have 64 bit binaries? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 1:46 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Afternoon, > > Wonder if someone know if there is a 64 bit java. The reason I ask is, > I headed out to Sun website, Nit picking here. s/Sun/Oracle/ > downloaded what apparently looked like a > 64 bit jdk but when I extracted it, all I find is 32 bit RPM. ? How do > you guys check if the version installed is 64 then? Just a guess here, but maybe whoever created those packages kept the non-arch-specific stuff as i386 rpms? Any particular reason why you can't use OpenJDK/IcedTea? cheers, jon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 19:06:52 2010 From: fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Salman Ahmed) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Does Sun JDK have 64 bit binaries? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <916680.49539.qm@web51807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yes, 64-bit Java (JDK) binaries are available. When you go to the JDK download page, select "Linux x64" as your platform, and after that select "jdk-6u21-linux-x64.bin" from the list of available files. Once downloaded, copy this .bin file to /usr/local (or /opt) and make it executable and then launch it as ./jdk-6u21-linux-x64.bin to start the installation process. The JDK should end up getting installed to a directory named jdk1.6.0_21. You'll know if you installed the 64-bit version when you run the JRE without any options (i.e. java) and it's usage indicates that the following options can be used: -d32 use a 32-bit data model if available -d64 use a 64-bit data model if available HTH, -- Salman Ahmed ----- Original Message ---- From: William Muriithi To: TLUG mailing list Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 1:46:08 PM Subject: [TLUG]: Does Sun JDK have 64 bit binaries? Afternoon, Wonder if someone know if there is a 64 bit java. The reason I ask is, I headed out to Sun website, downloaded what apparently looked like a 64 bit jdk but when I extracted it, all I find is 32 bit RPM. How do you guys check if the version installed is 64 then? I googled, but I can not find an article that explain the 32 bit RPMs. This is on Centos 5.5 [root at william ~]# chmod a+x jdk-6u21-linux-x64-rpm.bin [root at william ~]# ./jdk-6u21-linux-x64-rpm.bin Unpacking... Checksumming... Extracting... UnZipSFX 5.50 of 17 February 2002, by Info-ZIP (Zip-Bugs-x3A+iGeyBSfgpn9g0Uvcdg at public.gmane.org). inflating: jdk-6u21-linux-amd64.rpm inflating: sun-javadb-common-10.5.3-0.2.i386.rpm inflating: sun-javadb-core-10.5.3-0.2.i386.rpm inflating: sun-javadb-client-10.5.3-0.2.i386.rpm inflating: sun-javadb-demo-10.5.3-0.2.i386.rpm inflating: sun-javadb-docs-10.5.3-0.2.i386.rpm inflating: sun-javadb-javadoc-10.5.3-0.2.i386.rpm Preparing... ########################################### [100%] 1:jdk ########################################### [100%] Unpacking JAR files... rt.jar... jsse.jar... charsets.jar... ............. ...... William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 20:14:07 2010 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:14:07 -0400 Subject: Does Sun JDK have 64 bit binaries? In-Reply-To: <916680.49539.qm-XvbQHsQmD6eB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <916680.49539.qm@web51807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > You'll know if you installed the 64-bit version when you run the JRE without any > options (i.e. java) and it's usage indicates that the following options can be > used: > This reminds me. You can also run "java -version" to get detailed information about what is running. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 20:31:55 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 16:31:55 -0400 Subject: Does Sun JDK have 64 bit binaries? In-Reply-To: References: <916680.49539.qm@web51807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >Any particular reason why you can't use OpenJDK/IcedTea? Good question, I always prefer to use GCJ and has actually already attempted using it, but it looks like every java developer out there always check for Sun VM. Not sure why, but its really annoying. Hopefully, some day this will change On 30 July 2010 16:14, Jon VanAlten wrote: >> >> You'll know if you installed the 64-bit version when you run the JRE without any >> options (i.e. java) and it's usage indicates that the following options can be >> used: >> > > This reminds me. ?You can also run "java -version" to get detailed > information about what is running. Ah, thanks. It does show you can run both 32 and 64. Thanks for advice Regards William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 21:23:30 2010 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:23:30 -0400 Subject: no root account ubuntu? Message-ID: <4C5342D2.6090004@chrisaitken.net> I had a tech install the latest ubuntu on my computer. He swears he was never asked for a password for root. It only asked that he create one account. The password for that account does not work for root (say, using su). Is there a default password for root? Does root not exist? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 21:31:56 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:31:56 -0400 Subject: no root account ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4C5342D2.6090004-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C5342D2.6090004@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > I had a tech install the latest ubuntu on my computer. He swears he was > never asked for a password for root. It only asked that he create one > account. The password for that account does not work for root (say, using > su). Is there a default password for root? Does root not exist? Ubuntu does everything via sudo. By default there is no valid password for root. If you want to go in as root use "sudo su" Colin. > Chris > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 21:33:12 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:33:12 -0400 Subject: no root account ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4C5342D2.6090004-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4C5342D2.6090004@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: On 2010-07-30, at 17:23, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > I had a tech install the latest ubuntu on my computer. He swears he > was never asked for a password for root. It only asked that he > create one account. The password for that account does not work for > root (say, using su). Is there a default password for root? Does > root not exist? Not odd... On my laptop, there was no password set for root - instead, the human user was given privileges to use sudo to access the root account. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 21:44:42 2010 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:44:42 -0400 Subject: no root account ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <4C5342D2.6090004@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: I must be a little old-fashioned, or just a little old-fashioned paranoid. I prefer having a Root password, notably different from my ordinary user password. On Friday 30 July 2010 17:33:12 you wrote: > On 2010-07-30, at 17:23, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > > I had a tech install the latest ubuntu on my computer. He swears he > > was never asked for a password for root. It only asked that he > > create one account. The password for that account does not work for > > root (say, using su). Is there a default password for root? Does > > root not exist? > > Not odd... > > On my laptop, there was no password set for root - instead, the human > user was given privileges to use sudo to access the root account. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 21:48:45 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:48:45 -0400 Subject: no root account ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <4C5342D2.6090004@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Gary Layng wrote: > I must be a little old-fashioned, or just a little old-fashioned paranoid. ?I > prefer having a Root password, notably different from my ordinary user > password. That's fine, and you can certainly set things up that way. It seems to me that the default Ubuntu setup is fairly reasonable - it doesn't force a proliferation of authentication information ("I'm not sure why *I* need a user account - what's this 'root' thing, and why does it have to have another password? Does the password need to be the same? Or different???") -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 22:05:02 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:05:02 -0400 Subject: installing Ubuntu (et al) to /dev/sda9 Message-ID: <20100730220502.GA3749@node1.opengeometry.net> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 10.04 into /dev/sda9 (or, any logical partition). Problem is that Grub doesn't get installed into /dev/sda9. Is this normal? I can do it with Slackware (lilo), Fedora (grub), OpenSUSE (grub), but not with Ubuntu (grub), Mint (grub), or MEPIS (grub). I really prefer to install the boot loader in the root partition, so that each partition is independent and doesn't need to know what's on other partitions. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 22:10:25 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 18:10:25 -0400 Subject: no root account ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <4C5342D2.6090004@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <4C534DD1.9080201@rogers.com> Gary Layng wrote: > I must be a little old-fashioned, or just a little old-fashioned paranoid. I > prefer having a Root password, notably different from my ordinary user > password. > What you can do, is set up an "admin" account as the first one and then whatever user accounts you wish. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 30 22:13:20 2010 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:13:20 +0000 Subject: no root account ubuntu? Message-ID: <98850602-1280527999-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1656699867-@bda111.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Couldn't you: Sudo su - Passwd And then log in as root? ------Original Message------ From: James Knott Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org ReplyTo: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: no root account ubuntu? Sent: Jul 30, 2010 6:10 PM Gary Layng wrote: > I must be a little old-fashioned, or just a little old-fashioned paranoid. I > prefer having a Root password, notably different from my ordinary user > password. > What you can do, is set up an "admin" account as the first one and then whatever user accounts you wish. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 31 01:00:28 2010 From: sadiq-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA at public.gmane.org (Sadiq S) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:00:28 -0400 Subject: no root account ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <98850602-1280527999-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1656699867--yA6BAJA9D23jL2gL5RxOEzYg3SYOavFBmZ6FRVpaDsI@public.gmane.org> References: <98850602-1280527999-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1656699867-@bda111.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <4AAE7C24-646B-4B31-A685-FA0FFC5698D2@asininetech.com> sudo -i works as well. Sadiq S On Jul 30, 2010, at 6:13 PM, ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Couldn't you: > Sudo su - > Passwd > > And then log in as root? > > ------Original Message------ > From: James Knott > Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > ReplyTo: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: no root account ubuntu? > Sent: Jul 30, 2010 6:10 PM > > Gary Layng wrote: >> I must be a little old-fashioned, or just a little old-fashioned paranoid. I >> prefer having a Root password, notably different from my ordinary user >> password. >> > What you can do, is set up an "admin" account as the first one and then > whatever user accounts you wish. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 31 04:20:05 2010 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:20:05 -0400 Subject: no root account ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <98850602-1280527999-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1656699867--yA6BAJA9D23jL2gL5RxOEzYg3SYOavFBmZ6FRVpaDsI@public.gmane.org> References: <98850602-1280527999-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1656699867-@bda111.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <4C53A475.1090802@chrisaitken.net> ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Couldn't you: > Sudo su - > Passwd > > And then log in as root? > Now why didn't I think of that. It does work, albeit from an older ubuntu (2.6.24-27-generic). I'll try it on the PC with the newest ubuntu tomorrow. Claiming the powers of root to change the password for root. That's thinking outside the box. Thanks, Chris > ------Original Message------ > From: James Knott > Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > ReplyTo: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: no root account ubuntu? > Sent: Jul 30, 2010 6:10 PM > > Gary Layng wrote: > >> I must be a little old-fashioned, or just a little old-fashioned paranoid. I >> prefer having a Root password, notably different from my ordinary user >> password. >> >> > What you can do, is set up an "admin" account as the first one and then > whatever user accounts you wish. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 31 04:22:58 2010 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:22:58 -0400 Subject: no root account ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4AAE7C24-646B-4B31-A685-FA0FFC5698D2-KzRxrKfdH+/c+919tysfdA@public.gmane.org> References: <98850602-1280527999-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1656699867-@bda111.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <4AAE7C24-646B-4B31-A685-FA0FFC5698D2@asininetech.com> Message-ID: <4C53A522.2050906@chrisaitken.net> Sadiq S wrote: > sudo -i works as well. > I read the man page entry for that switch and it's over my head. But, yeah, it switched user to root. Chris > Sadiq S > > On Jul 30, 2010, at 6:13 PM, ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > >> Couldn't you: >> Sudo su - >> Passwd >> >> And then log in as root? >> >> ------Original Message------ >> From: James Knott >> Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> ReplyTo: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: no root account ubuntu? >> Sent: Jul 30, 2010 6:10 PM >> >> Gary Layng wrote: >> >>> I must be a little old-fashioned, or just a little old-fashioned paranoid. I >>> prefer having a Root password, notably different from my ordinary user >>> password. >>> >>> >> What you can do, is set up an "admin" account as the first one and then >> whatever user accounts you wish. >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> >> Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 31 08:45:15 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 04:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: no root account ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <98850602-1280527999-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1656699867--yA6BAJA9D23jL2gL5RxOEzYg3SYOavFBmZ6FRVpaDsI@public.gmane.org> References: <98850602-1280527999-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1656699867-@bda111.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org wrote: > Couldn't you: > Sudo su - > Passwd > > And then log in as root? That *is* logging in a root. The best thing to do is: sudo passwd Then enter a password. The only difference between Ubuntu and other distros (or an Unix) is that they do not give a password to the root account. Once you give root a password, there is no difference from other distros. > ------Original Message------ > From: James Knott > Sender: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > ReplyTo: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: no root account ubuntu? > Sent: Jul 30, 2010 6:10 PM > > Gary Layng wrote: >> I must be a little old-fashioned, or just a little old-fashioned paranoid. I >> prefer having a Root password, notably different from my ordinary user >> password. >> > What you can do, is set up an "admin" account as the first one and then > whatever user accounts you wish. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 31 13:39:13 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:39:13 -0400 Subject: installing xfce4 on debain Message-ID: <4C542781.1090203@gmail.com> Guys can you tell me why debain insists on asking me to insert a install dvd when i type aptitude install xfce4 i have working internet connection, and the only CD I have is the minimal install CD, how do I tell debain to not goto dvd? Thanks, Rajinder -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 31 13:53:59 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:53:59 -0400 Subject: installing xfce4 on debain In-Reply-To: <4C542781.1090203-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C542781.1090203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100731135359.GA1448@yam.witteman.ca> On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 09:39:13AM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >Guys can you tell me why debain insists on asking me to insert a >install dvd when i type > >aptitude install xfce4 > >i have working internet connection, and the only CD I have is the >minimal install CD, how do I tell debain to not goto dvd? My guess is that /etc/apt/sources.list is specifying a DVD, rather than an Internet mirror. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 31 14:01:31 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:01:31 -0400 Subject: installing xfce4 on debain In-Reply-To: <20100731135359.GA1448-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <4C542781.1090203@gmail.com> <20100731135359.GA1448@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4C542CBB.9000908@gmail.com> On 10-07-31 09:53 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 09:39:13AM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > >> Guys can you tell me why debain insists on asking me to insert a >> install dvd when i type >> >> aptitude install xfce4 >> >> i have working internet connection, and the only CD I have is the >> minimal install CD, how do I tell debain to not goto dvd? >> > My guess is that /etc/apt/sources.list is specifying a DVD, rather than > an Internet mirror. > that was a good guess =) thanks it's downloading now! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 31 22:01:48 2010 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 18:01:48 -0400 Subject: good console bases sys monitors Message-ID: <4C549D4C.2050901@gmail.com> Other than top, that's as far as my linux-fu gets me =P, what other console based monitors are you guys using that has low cpu load for things like: network activity, file activity, storage space, low memory if the system is overloaded, i'm memory leaks, errant process is there a monitor that will force the server to reboot? i am asking more for an education purpose and not any kind of immediate use Thanks, Rajinder -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists