tablets

D. Hugh Redelmeier hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
Sun Dec 5 19:18:18 UTC 2010


| From: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>

| To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
| Subject: Re: [TLUG]: tablets
| 
| On Fri, Dec 03, 2010 at 11:09:46PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:

| > Apple doesn't pretend to be open.
| > 
| > Android does pretend to be open.
| 
| Some android devices are very open, some are not.

All depends on the definition of "open".  But I won't waste everyones
time by expanding on that.

Android devices that I've seen have been fairly locked-down.  Some can
be easily jailbroken with the tacit approval of the manufacturer.

The hardware is partly to blame.  Although most of Android is open
source (at least roughly), too many necessary device drivers are not.
And key things like the Android Store (?) and Google Maps applications
require some certification that isn't possible for rebuilds (I think).

There was a very interesting talk at Linux Symposium this summer Tim
Riker who had built a phone that ran Android but could not get
approval (in a timely fashion: it is a bit like the halting problem in
that you cannot prove that he will never get it) for no reason that
Google would explain.
<http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2010/view_abstract.php?content_key=79>

It appears as if Google pulled all their support from Linux Symposium
when they learned of the talk.

| I currently don't want an android device either.  Until the android kernel
| is part of the stock Linus kernel tree I want nothing to do with it.

It is interesting that they have not done the work to get their stuff
upstreamed.  They may blame upstream.  I think that Google has done
this before.

| > | Of course I consider the iPad a useless brick at the moment.
| > 
| > I have not found it useless, and I've only started using it.
| 
| Well any computer that I can't write my own applications for, is a brick.
| The way apple currently manages their app store is a complete random
| insanity where no one ever knoww what will and will not be allowed and
| for how long it will stay allowed if it gets in.

iPad is not called a computer.  You and I see it as a computer.  But
then I've (reluctantly) accepted having a TV set, a Digital Media Player (pocket
device that plays MP3s and Oggs), an oven, etc. which have serious
computer components and yet are not open.

I bought my first VCR in 1979 seriously hoping to hack the firmware
since the user interface was so stupid.  I never did.  Nor with all
the other VCRs I bought over the subsequent years.

What mass market devices are usefully open?  Most personal computers
and notebooks (now, after lots of work by *BSD and Linux folks).  Some
wireless routers (a great victory).  A very few PDAs, sort of (I have
them all: Sharp Zaurus, Nokia tablets), that were more or less market
failures; some DMPs can run RockBox (without any help from the
manufacturer); maybe some media players (WD TV Live, Patriot Box, etc.
use Linux but I don't think that people have recompiled kernels); Plug
Computers (some are mass-market).  A pretty meagre collection.

It turns out that the only way to hack these things is within a
community that is willing to share the development work.  The dynamics
of this are fascinating.  Compare:

- Linux kernel

- various projects for particular packages

- linux distros (Debian vs Ubuntu vs Red Hat vs Fedora)

- OpenWRT vs DD-Wrt vs Tomato

- RockBox

Back on topic: Is there a community separate from Google for putting
Android on boxes?  I assume that Google isn't open enough to accept
things that porters wish to upstream.
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