From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 01:59:31 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:59:31 -0400 Subject: Manipulating file dates In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df281003271203w1e40d531rd69679123a58835c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 30 March 2010 15:13, Renata Rocha wrote: > On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 15:03, Giles Orr wrote: >> I'll shortly be boarding a flight back to Toronto, at which time I'll >> have about a thousand photos with the wrong time stamp on them (I >> never remember to reset the camera until about five days have passed). >> ?All the photos have a Toronto time stamp on them, when what I need is >> six hours later. ?I admit I'm sitting at a Windows computer in a hotel >> and haven't attempted to research this myself, but I've looked at it >> in the past and the process was a bit confusing. ?As I recall, I would >> need to get the time from the file, convert to seconds since the >> computer epoch (some time in 1969?, although I think that's immaterial >> in this context?), add 6*60*60 seconds, then convert back to date >> format. ?Looping through the files with touch is no problem, but help >> with the date manipulation under Bash would be much appreciated. > > I'm pretty sure you won't need to change the files' date, but the jpg > headers info. > > There's a command line tool named "exif" (self-describing) ?which > deals with exif headers. May be useful for what you need. I did actually mean the file date stamp, but you're right that I should consider the exif data. Because of the way my local scripts handle processing, it was important I fix the date stamp, and I've done that with this: for file in *.JPG; do touch -d "$(date -d @$((21600 + $(date -r "${file}" +"%s"))) +"%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S")" "${file}" ; done Which is what I mentioned in the first place: convert to seconds since 1970, add six hours (21600 seconds), nail the "@" symbol on the front of the number so "date" will take it as a number-of-seconds value and spit it out in a different format, and finally touch the file with that value. I really should change the exif data: just because I don't need it right now isn't a good reason to leave it wrong ... Thanks everyone for the assistance. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 02:29:55 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 22:29:55 -0400 Subject: Manipulating file dates In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df281003271203w1e40d531rd69679123a58835c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100401022955.GA4230@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 09:59:31PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > I did actually mean the file date stamp, but you're right that I > should consider the exif data. Because of the way my local scripts > handle processing, it was important I fix the date stamp, and I've > done that with this: > > for file in *.JPG; do touch -d "$(date -d @$((21600 + $(date -r > "${file}" +"%s"))) +"%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S")" "${file}" ; done Something like date -d '6 hours' would have been easier... :-) > > Which is what I mentioned in the first place: convert to seconds since > 1970, add six hours (21600 seconds), nail the "@" symbol on the front > of the number so "date" will take it as a number-of-seconds value and > spit it out in a different format, and finally touch the file with > that value. > > I really should change the exif data: just because I don't need it > right now isn't a good reason to leave it wrong ... > > Thanks everyone for the assistance. -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 02:35:18 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 22:35:18 -0400 Subject: [OT?] Android phones In-Reply-To: References: <4BAD7E1B.6090501@buynet.com> <3a97ef1003262100t4f1b7460m431984b5921a2e7a@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef1003262102t3677a832naae985f1e2e7d7ff@mail.gmail.com> <4BAE664E.8080703@rogers.com> <601551AD-4AC7-47B9-9E49-876C5F308D0F@gmail.com> <4BAF3F09.1010601@rogers.com> <7b85931d1003290715n20994873n74828fec3e9855a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Durn Android mail client topposts ;-( There's bits of unfairness to how the issue is perceived. Yes, there are 4 versions of Android in the wild.? But the last 2 versions are only just over 2 months old, so it's hardly fair to bash deployers that have multi-month marketing flows! It takes time to announce things, let alone pushing phones thru the assorted flows reasonably required by carriers: - They need the phones certified by FCC (US)/DOC (Canada) - Phones need to be tested by the carrier - They need to negotiate pricing and such with sources - They need to arrange the logistics of deliveries of phones, and if they're aggressively hawking "latest and greatest," they're fighting with other carriers that would like to be first instead - They need to set up all the "branding stuff" that is *always* done with phones, including: - Setting up custom firmware with logos and such - Having the hardware vendors "paint on" (or silkscreen, or whatever) logos onto the plastic There's enough work involved in this that it's a risky endeavor to ask to get some software release pushed in that was only released by Google 8 weeks ago. 2.1 was only released in mid-January, and even 1.6 is only 6 months old.? For most kinds of software, 4 releases in well under a year is a *lot* to try to manage. Few OSS projects attempt remotely similar...? Think about release rates... - Ubuntu tries twice yearly, which is way way less. - Ditto for Fedora. - Debian is closer to every 2 years :-). - I think of Postgres - about annual. - GNOME does roughly semi-annual releases, as does KDE. Four releases in a year, with FroYo being close to making #5, is a daunting gauntlet to run for everyone involved, including the poor carriers trying to deploy phones. Now, I'm not *very* sympathetic to carriers, overall - they tend to be rich, paranoid, control freakish sorts of organizations, with plenty to dislike. But to claim there's no challenge in tracking "bleeding edge" versions of Android is silly. I find it fairly remarkable that Verizon is in the position of being able to push 2.1 onto some of their deployed phones now. To make that work (and it hasn't yet - the process is only just beginning) required some "pushing of heaven and earth" on the parts of both Verizon and Google. But there's also plenty, plenty, plenty of reason for Google to press to "push heaven and earth" to get 2.1 deployable on substantially all of the deployed user base, because that would, indeed, substantively undermine the validity of the arguments made in that referenced article. FYI, I picked up a T-Mobile G1 on the weekend, as my Palm Treo's screen got cracked up last week. The G1's running version 1.6, and the reason to find it interesting (versus more "domestic" models) is that it allows me to be agnostic between (Rogers, Wind, Mobilicity) as carriers. Am liking it a fair bit; it's a *huge* change in that it's basically 5 years newer than my last phone :-). The ecosystem is rather more open than Apple's, which seems a good thing. (It's still apparently safe for people whose idea of an "application" is a menu for selecting pictures of "bikini babes" :-). That is a mighty lame cheap shot to throw at Apple, of course!) A notable difference versus Apple is that there is a viable set of applications that present very different user interfaces from what "comes standard." Apple has a clear history of being doctrinaire about what The Right UI On Our Machine should look like. There are some interesting alternative UIs emerging on Android, which seems like a good thing. My worst problem at this point is getting the huge population of passwords from GNU Keyring to something like KeePass. I'm not finding answers that don't involve losses of parts of the data :-(. Oh, well... It doesn't have to get fixed instantaneously. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 03:05:45 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:05:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: zulu time on some MS Windows [was Re: Manipulating file dates] In-Reply-To: <20100331205730.GX4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df281003271203w1e40d531rd69679123a58835c@mail.gmail.com> <20100331044707.kbok3r6h0go0ckss@mail.math.yorku.ca> <20100331141824.GV4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100331144658.xmrs8wjwg0gwc4cw@mail.math.yorku.ca> <20100331205730.GX4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Yes localtime clock sucks. Microsoft is very stupid for that choice. What I recently learned: The initial versions of Windows NT (on MIPS hardware) used UTC in the hardware clock that runs while the machine is off. This feature was left in, but broken. It was recently fixed! It seems that Vista SP2 fixes this. Windows NT (which includes XP, Vista, 7, 2000, 2003, etc. but not 9x or me) internally keeps the clock in UTC. I don't know if this observable. Ray Chen's blog is often interesting to me even though I don't use MS Windows. | They are even more stupid for not having changed it to allow users | the choice. In recent versions you can chose sanity! The secret incantation (registry entry): [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation] "RealTimeIsUniversal"=dword:00000001 | It would simplify their handling of daylights savings time | so much. They keep having bugs in that after all. MS Windows DST handling works fine until you dual-boot. Perhaps Microsoft likes it that way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 03:34:25 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT?] Android phones In-Reply-To: References: <4BAD7E1B.6090501@buynet.com> <3a97ef1003262100t4f1b7460m431984b5921a2e7a@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef1003262102t3677a832naae985f1e2e7d7ff@mail.gmail.com> <4BAE664E.8080703@rogers.com> <601551AD-4AC7-47B9-9E49-876C5F308D0F@gmail.com> <4BAF3F09.1010601@rogers.com> <7b85931d1003290715n20994873n74828fec3e9855a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | - They need the phones certified by FCC (US)/DOC (Canada) I thought that all phones now had one hidden processor ("baseband") to do the radio things that the FCC and DOC care about and that Android runs on a separate, non-critical processor. As such, I don't think that the FCC and DOC care about Android releases. | - Phones need to be tested by the carrier But new Android releases shouldn't need too stringent testing by the carrier. The real work would be to drag forward their customization (cynical view: their crippling). Annecdote: when we (DGP at U of T) first got UNIX in January 1975, we hacked on it a lot, improving and fixing it. About the third time we had to port our changes to new releases, we got very conservative about what changes were worth the effort. So: maybe the flurry of Android releases will have the salutory effect of making verdor value-subtracting painful to the perpetrators. | - They need to negotiate pricing and such with sources Naive question: why should there be a pricing of a firmware update? | - They need to arrange the logistics of deliveries of phones, and if | they're aggressively hawking "latest and greatest," they're fighting | with other carriers that would like to be first instead Logistics of firmware delivery are not too bad. Assuming the procedures are designed to never brick the device. It can be done in the consumers' hands. | - They need to set up all the "branding stuff" that is *always* done | with phones, including: | - Setting up custom firmware with logos and such | - Having the hardware vendors "paint on" (or silkscreen, or whatever) | logos onto the plastic Do you really have to paint on the firmware version? Damn, I've never done that as part of the firmware update process of the devices around here. | There's enough work involved in this that it's a risky endeavor to ask | to get some software release pushed in that was only released by | Google 8 weeks ago. Yes, 8 weeks is a short time. But if releases are light weight, it might be managable. You know that we've achieved appliance status when it is recognized that the main cost of upgrades is in re-educating the users, not in the technical details. | Few OSS projects attempt remotely similar...? Think about release rates... I don't know enough about how big a deal an Android release is. Is it really comparable to a full Linux distro release? I guess it comes down to articulation: how much does an Android change affect downstream code, how much does it affect the user. On one end of the scale, bug fixes are generally benign or beneficial (kind of by definition). I don't actually understand, on a philosophical level, what a Linux distro release really is. I certainly do on a practical level and I'm not really sure that they amount to an optimal organization of change. I like my Nokia n800 (a tablet, not a phone). But I really hate that Nokia seems to support these platforms for a year or so then abandon support for them (770, n800, n810, n900). If Android updates continue to flow to old phones, that would be a real feather in the ecosystem's cap. That really depends on the incentives for the relevant players. OpenMoko, if it succeeded, ought to have accomplished that: the OpenMoko customer is the owner of the phone, not the pusher. From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 04:08:14 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 00:08:14 -0400 Subject: [OT?] Android phones In-Reply-To: References: <4BAD7E1B.6090501@buynet.com> <4BAE664E.8080703@rogers.com> <601551AD-4AC7-47B9-9E49-876C5F308D0F@gmail.com> <4BAF3F09.1010601@rogers.com> <7b85931d1003290715n20994873n74828fec3e9855a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:34 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Christopher Browne > > | - They need the phones certified by FCC (US)/DOC (Canada) > > I thought that all phones now had one hidden processor ("baseband") to > do the radio things that the FCC and DOC care about and that Android > runs on a separate, non-critical processor. That may be. My overall point wasn't really to look at specific process, rather just to poke at the notion that there are a bunch of things that need to be done when deploying new mobile handsets, such that it's not overly reasonable to expect an 8 week turnaround. > So: maybe the flurry of Android releases will have the salutory effect > of making verdor value-subtracting painful to the perpetrators. Possibly. > | - They need to negotiate pricing and such with sources > > Naive question: why should there be a pricing of a firmware update? Actually, I didn't have firmware in mind in this. The thing I see people griping isn't about the way updates get deployed, but rather people whining to the effect: "I bought this phone in February... It's just *fraudulent* that it doesn't already include the version of Android that was released to developers a whole 18 days ago!" And it's *not* fraudulent. It's not particularly reasonable to expect that degree of velocity of deployment for a platform that's still pretty new. > | Few OSS projects attempt remotely similar...? Think about release rates... > > I don't know enough about how big a deal an Android release is. ?Is it > really comparable to a full Linux distro release? Probably not. It seems more plausible to compare to something like GNOME or KDE. Or perhaps that, too, is a more complex "ecosystem." > I like my Nokia n800 (a tablet, not a phone). ?But I really hate that > Nokia seems to support these platforms for a year or so then abandon > support for them (770, n800, n810, n900). I saw an announcement today that the first "Meego" release is now available for N900. Of course, that fits into the "first year" scenario. > If Android updates continue to flow to old phones, that would be a > real feather in the ecosystem's cap. ?That really depends on the > incentives for the relevant players. ?OpenMoko, if it succeeded, ought > to have accomplished that: the OpenMoko customer is the owner of the > phone, not the pusher. Generally agreed. The trouble with mobile phones is that the carriers come out of the "jealous paranoid control freaks" traditions of the old time phone companies. It's kind of entertaining to see Apple competing in this arena, as Steve Jobs seems to have fit into this milieu with remarkable success. He can evidently play "control freak" with the best of them. The way that financing and contracts work, the carriers are commonly focused on a rather opposite approach in various ways. They're keen on extending contracts, and are happy to give away hardware to encourage this. In some essential ways, you don't really own the phone, and the carriers wouldn't have been at all keen on OpenMoko changing that. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 00:02:43 2010 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:02:43 -0400 Subject: Decision in the SCO Group vs. Novell Jury trial In-Reply-To: References: <4BB25894.5060109@rogers.com> <4BB263F8.20304@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <1270080163.3370.0.camel@pitt.starnix.com> On Wed, 2010-03-31 at 15:42 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > At some point, SCO's creditors will realize that what assets still > remain are better in their pockets than to fund lawyers in an > increasingly futile legal strategy. Unless you're paranoid and prone to believe conspiracy theories ;) --matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 06:22:20 2010 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 02:22:20 -0400 Subject: Decision in the SCO Group vs. Novell Jury trial In-Reply-To: References: <4BB25894.5060109@rogers.com> <4BB263F8.20304@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <1270102940.5460.1367794999@webmail.messagingengine.com> > On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:42 -0400, "Evan Leibovitch" wrote: > ... > At some point, SCO's creditors will realize that what assets > still remain are better in their pockets than to fund lawyers in > an increasingly futile legal strategy. > > - Evan It certainly hasn't stopped them so far. You're assuming rational behaviour on their part, and if the past 10 years have taught us anything, it's that people (and anything made up of people, including markets, corporations and governments) don't necessarily behave in a rational manner. To the contrary, they might also be clinging tenaciously to that faint hope that if they hold on just that little bit longer, put in just that little bit more money, they'll ultimately succeed and then be rolling in money and banging sexy women and generally livin' la vida loca. Kind of like buying that one extra lottery ticket, or clinging desperately to your shares of AwesomeCo as the market is tanking. Why stop now? Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 12:42:45 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 08:42:45 -0400 Subject: Manipulating file dates In-Reply-To: <20100401022955.GA4230-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df281003271203w1e40d531rd69679123a58835c@mail.gmail.com> <20100401022955.GA4230@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 31 March 2010 22:29, William Park wrote: > On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 09:59:31PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >> I did actually mean the file date stamp, but you're right that I >> should consider the exif data. ?Because of the way my local scripts >> handle processing, it was important I fix the date stamp, and I've >> done that with this: >> >> for file in *.JPG; do touch -d "$(date -d @$((21600 + $(date -r >> "${file}" +"%s"))) +"%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S")" "${file}" ; done > > Something like > ? ?date -d '6 hours' > would have been easier... :-) Indeed, it would. But after Chris Johnson's email I gave "+6hours" a test run and the date stamps on the files went 8 hours back instead of 6 hours forward. Don't know if I did something wrong or what, but for whatever reason the uglier method worked better for me. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 15:20:28 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:20:28 -0400 Subject: [OT?] Android phones In-Reply-To: References: <4BAD7E1B.6090501@buynet.com> <3a97ef1003262100t4f1b7460m431984b5921a2e7a@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef1003262102t3677a832naae985f1e2e7d7ff@mail.gmail.com> <4BAE664E.8080703@rogers.com> <601551AD-4AC7-47B9-9E49-876C5F308D0F@gmail.com> <4BAF3F09.1010601@rogers.com> <7b85931d1003290715n20994873n74828fec3e9855a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BB4B9BC.6060208@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I thought that all phones now had one hidden processor ("baseband") to > do the radio things that the FCC and DOC care about and that Android > runs on a separate, non-critical processor. > > As such, I don't think that the FCC and DOC care about Android releases. > Actually, these days it's "Industry Canada", not DOC. Has been for years. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 17:44:12 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 13:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: nVidia dropping support for the open-source NV driver Message-ID: I'm not sure if this is important or not. I have used the NV driver a lot but Nouveau may be better in all cases. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 18:20:01 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:20:01 -0400 Subject: zulu time on some MS Windows [was Re: Manipulating file dates] In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df281003271203w1e40d531rd69679123a58835c@mail.gmail.com> <20100331044707.kbok3r6h0go0ckss@mail.math.yorku.ca> <20100331141824.GV4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100331144658.xmrs8wjwg0gwc4cw@mail.math.yorku.ca> <20100331205730.GX4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100401182001.GY4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:05:45PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > What I recently learned: > > The initial versions of Windows NT (on MIPS hardware) used UTC in the > hardware clock that runs while the machine is off. > > This feature was left in, but broken. It was recently fixed! > > > It seems that Vista SP2 fixes this. But with no promise to maintain it and no official way to enable it. > Windows NT (which includes XP, Vista, 7, 2000, 2003, etc. but not 9x or > me) internally keeps the clock in UTC. I don't know if this observable. > Hard to beleive given how many errors they have had over the last few years related to daylights savings time. > Ray Chen's blog is often interesting to me even though I don't use MS > Windows. > > | They are even more stupid for not having changed it to allow users > | the choice. > > In recent versions you can chose sanity! The secret incantation > (registry entry): > [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation] > "RealTimeIsUniversal"=dword:00000001 OK, a registery key is neat, but where is the actual place you can officially change that setting? > | It would simplify their handling of daylights savings time > | so much. They keep having bugs in that after all. > > MS Windows DST handling works fine until you dual-boot. Perhaps > Microsoft likes it that way. Some people dual boot multiple versions of windows. That doesn't work either. And it has still been a source of no end of bugs for them. It does not work fine even with single booting. Exchange gets it wrong frequently, and if you happen to reboot during the changeover time it can actually get confused sometimes. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 19:51:50 2010 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 15:51:50 -0400 Subject: Youtube now available in text mode ! Message-ID: <4BB4F956.7030502@linuxcaffe.ca> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/to/~3/pIJEjVMxAYg/YouTube-Now-In-Text-Mode dammit! I bit and chewed it up and almost swallowed, cli-youtube ? that would be AWESOME ! ;] djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 20:08:14 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 20:08:14 +0000 Subject: Youtube now available in text mode ! In-Reply-To: <4BB4F956.7030502-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4BB4F956.7030502@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:51 PM, David J Patrick wrote: > http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/to/~3/pIJEjVMxAYg/YouTube-Now-In-Text-Mode > > dammit! I bit and chewed it up and almost swallowed, cli-youtube ? > that would be AWESOME ! The thing is, it *definitely could work*! It already does with mplayer. http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/HTML/en/aalib.html See also Better still, it has actually been made to work with YouTube. http://www.tweak3d.net/forums/showthread.php?26209-Watch-YouTube-videos-as-ASCII-text-using-aalib http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/06/28/text-based-youtube-video-player-for-linux/ Simple matter of linking your mplayer to aalib... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 20:16:16 2010 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 16:16:16 -0400 Subject: [OT?] Android phones In-Reply-To: References: <4BAD7E1B.6090501@buynet.com> <3a97ef1003262102t3677a832naae985f1e2e7d7ff@mail.gmail.com> <4BAE664E.8080703@rogers.com> <601551AD-4AC7-47B9-9E49-876C5F308D0F@gmail.com> <4BAF3F09.1010601@rogers.com> <7b85931d1003290715n20994873n74828fec3e9855a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 31 March 2010 22:35, Christopher Browne wrote: > FYI, I picked up a T-Mobile G1 on the weekend, as my Palm Treo's > screen got cracked up last week. The G1's running version 1.6, and > the reason to find it interesting (versus more "domestic" models) is > that it allows me to be agnostic between (Rogers, Wind, Mobilicity) as > carriers. This same fact is what's nudging me towards a Nexus One, even though there appear to be no telco discounts for unsubsidized phones. The Milestone at Telus looks mighty appealing, and my instinct says that rooting/unlocking information for it should be both more accessible and safer than for the iPhone. Yet I still like the freedom of just buying the phone that way without the cloak and dagger and "will it get bricked" fears. The ecosystem is rather more open than Apple's, which seems a good > thing. (It's still apparently safe for people whose idea of an > "application" is a menu for selecting pictures of "bikini babes" :-). > That is a mighty lame cheap shot to throw at Apple, of course!) > I'm not sure if it's foresight or wishful thinking, but IMO the shot is not lame at all. The porn industry is a chief driver of consumer-facing IT innovation. There is some documented evidence that limited availability of adult content played a part in the death of Betamax ( http://www.law.indiana.edu/fclj/pubs/v49/no1/johnson.html). Whether that reduced available content was the decision of Sony or the industry doesn't matter. In the case of the iPhone, Apple absolutely doesn't want anything related to adult content on their phones, and I think it will hurt them in the long run. Maybe not enough to singlehandedly push the iPhone/iPad out of the market, but certainly enough to open significant opportunities that the Android ecosystem could easily embrace. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 21:05:03 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 17:05:03 -0400 Subject: [OT?] Android phones In-Reply-To: References: <4BAD7E1B.6090501@buynet.com> <4BAE664E.8080703@rogers.com> <601551AD-4AC7-47B9-9E49-876C5F308D0F@gmail.com> <4BAF3F09.1010601@rogers.com> <7b85931d1003290715n20994873n74828fec3e9855a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > On 31 March 2010 22:35, Christopher Browne wrote: >> FYI, I picked up a T-Mobile G1 on the weekend, as my Palm Treo's >> screen got cracked up last week. ?The G1's running version 1.6, and >> the reason to find it interesting (versus more "domestic" models) is >> that it allows me to be agnostic between (Rogers, Wind, Mobilicity) as >> carriers. > > This same fact is what's nudging me towards a Nexus One, even though there > appear to be no telco discounts for unsubsidized phones. The Milestone at > Telus looks mighty appealing, and my instinct says that rooting/unlocking > information for it should be both more accessible and safer than for the > iPhone. Yet I still like the freedom of just buying the phone that way > without the cloak and dagger and "will it get bricked" fears. There's a more significant "ecosystem" surrounding hacking on HTC devices than pretty well any of the others, which points me in a somewhat similar direction. I can't be certain, but suspect that the fact that HTC is based in Taiwan, with all the odd political milieu that comes from that, makes them more prepared to accept the relevant kinds of risks than an American company like Motorola. >> The ecosystem is rather more open than Apple's, which seems a good >> thing. ?(It's still apparently safe for people whose idea of an >> "application" is a menu for selecting pictures of "bikini babes" :-). >> That is a mighty lame cheap shot to throw at Apple, of course!) > > I'm not sure if it's foresight or wishful thinking, but IMO the shot is not > lame at all. The porn industry is a chief driver of consumer-facing IT > innovation. There is some documented evidence that limited availability of > adult content played a part in the death of Betamax > (http://www.law.indiana.edu/fclj/pubs/v49/no1/johnson.html). Whether that > reduced available content was the decision of Sony or the industry doesn't > matter. In the case of the iPhone, Apple absolutely doesn't want anything > related to adult content on their phones, and I think it will hurt them in > the long run. Maybe not enough to singlehandedly push the iPhone/iPad out of > the market, but certainly enough to open significant opportunities that the > Android ecosystem could easily embrace. I decline to dwell on that terribly much. There's a giant dose of hypocrisy in the matter, as described nicely here: The title says it all: "Apple, There?s Pornography On My iPhone. The App Is Called Safari. You Made It." >From a practical perspective, the spat is pretty irrelevant, because anyone that wants to grab more-or-less racy pictures on their mobile device can use an application known as a Web Browser to do so. I don't imagine that "Keeping Android Safe for Dumb Little Porny Apps" makes an ounce of *real* difference vis-a-vis the (non)availability of adult content. Unless some of the apps are doing something more sophisticated than providing a little "gallery" application pointed at a web site somewhere. The hurt, instead, lies in the abusive relationship with Apple Developers (the folks creating the "dumb little porny apps"). That won't visibly affect things today, but eventually... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 21:45:23 2010 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 17:45:23 -0400 Subject: Decision in the SCO Group vs. Novell Jury trial In-Reply-To: <1270102940.5460.1367794999-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4BB25894.5060109@rogers.com> <4BB263F8.20304@the-wire.com> <1270102940.5460.1367794999@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On 1 April 2010 02:22, Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > Why stop now? > Because the jury trial was as close as SCO was ever going to get to a victory and that's now gone. There were quite a few opinions that SCO could indeed convince a jury that Novell indeed gave them IP rights to Unix. And even the folks at Groklaw said the SCO lawyers were extremely good and came close to pulling it off. But no. Everything from here on is demonstrably and substantially harder to win. The chances of SCO's winning have gone from a near coin flip(*) to a very expensive lottery ticket. Arguably SCO has been literally going for broke from the moment they first took on IBM, so "one more lottery ticket" would certainly be a consistent strategy. But SCO's management situation is different now; the company is controlled by a trustee with a fiduciary duty to the interests of creditors, rather than Darl McBride and his band of other-worlders. This means there is an opportunity for a sane change in direction, though it's far from assured. - Evan (*) regardless of what you think is most just or even a slam-dunk, ANYTHING in front of a jury has an element of coin-toss in it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 21:56:35 2010 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 17:56:35 -0400 Subject: Spiders and crawlers Message-ID: Hi all, I'm looking to implement a spidering system intended to look through a bunch of catalog websites, in order to track changes to those catalogs (with the help of a backend MySQL system). The Wikipedia entry for "web crawler" returns a lot of interesting choices; I'm wondering is anyone here has experience in either writing one or using an existing open source one. I'm hoping for something that is reasonably configurable so that one doesn't need to know a language like C or Java to make minor config changes. Any help is appreciated. -- Evan Leibovitch evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 1 22:23:42 2010 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 16:23:42 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [OT?] Android phones In-Reply-To: References: <4BAD7E1B.6090501@buynet.com> <3a97ef1003262100t4f1b7460m431984b5921a2e7a@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef1003262102t3677a832naae985f1e2e7d7ff@mail.gmail.com> <4BAE664E.8080703@rogers.com> <601551AD-4AC7-47B9-9E49-876C5F308D0F@gmail.com> <4BAF3F09.1010601@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Mar 2010, Christopher Browne wrote: > The size of community may be small now; if the stack gets used > more and more for mobile phones, the population increases, True. But for the ones that use the same stack as common "Linux OS", the community is already big. No waiting required. > What a "common Linux system" means is a mighty elusive thing; IMHO Linus is partly to blame for this. :-) Obviously Linux refer to the Linux kernel. However when asked about naming the OS which were built on top of the Linux kernel, Linux preferred to call it Linux as well. Well, now everything that have a little part of Linux in it, is being call Linux. :-) > that I don't imagine are what you have in mind: Well, that's now entirely true. :-) > 1. Android would be one, for sure Which actually have very little in common with Linux OS. Same with WebOS, I guess. > 2. BusyBox, and very little more, which is what you > frequently see on storage devices That actually not so bad. :-) > 3. Maemo (the Nokia platform, using some bits of GNU, > originally with Python+GTk, later biasing to Qt), I believe Maemo is largely a Linux OS, a direct descendant of Debian, carrying all major libraries and tools. So not just "some bits of GNU". From my searches so far, seems to be the only "real" Linux in cell phones in the market other than OpenMoko. > 4. Moblin+Maemo is in the process of begetting Meego. Well Moblin seems to be another "real" Linux OS, especially considering Intel design it for x86 platform. :-) > None of these represent places where I'd expect that what > you'd call "Common Linux apps" would necessarily run > trivially. Well, actually I guess common Linux applications may be able run trivially in Meego x86s phones. :-) In Maemo changing to entirely different hardware platform (ARM) may introduce issues but other than that it seems that most porting issues is with display interface, as documented here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Porting_Software/Porting_Existing_GTK%2B_Application_to_Maemo_5 -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 2 15:19:26 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 11:19:26 -0400 Subject: nVidia dropping support for the open-source NV driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 13:44, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm not sure if this is important or not. > > > I have used the NV driver a lot but Nouveau may be better in all cases. > I didn't know they supported it in first place. NV was *always* a flimsy, wimpy fallback. FZ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 3 16:14:33 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 12:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hot plugging eSATA In-Reply-To: <20090811140445.GA3444-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca> <20090811140445.GA3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:04:45 -0400 | Subject: Re: [TLUG]: How do you expand a RAID5 Array? | AHCI controllers should support hot plug, although I have seen one case | where a hotplug caused another drive on the controller to momentarily | disappear, which didn't please the raid at all. I suppose having hot | swap cages makes it more reliable. Thanks for this clue. I tried hotp lugging eSATA on my machine (HP Pavilion a6245n desktop with Intel G33 and ICH9R chipset). It didn't seem to work. I went to the BIOS and found Advanced: SATA1 controller mode [IDE] SATA2 Controller [Enabled] I switched to Advanced: SATA1 controller mode [AHCI] and the SATA2 line disappeard?!? I rebooted and hot plugging worked. At least kind of. Lessons: - all SATA controllers support hot plug - generally only in AHCI mode - some (lots?) of BIOSes have setting that sets the mode - the default setting may be IDE or ATA preventing hot plug - the reason might be that some versions of Windows don't come whith AHCI drivers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 3 16:56:13 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 12:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: confused about Current_Pending_Sector (fwd) Message-ID: I'm having problems with a disk drive. I posted this to the smartmontools list. Someone on the TLUG list might find this interesting too. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 02:47:02 -0400 (EDT) From: D. Hugh Redelmeier To: smartmontools-support-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Subject: confused about Current_Pending_Sector Summary: smartctl shows a large and growing number of Current_Pending_Sectors yet badblocks finds no problem nor does dd. What could this mean? On my Fedora Core 11 x86_64 Linux system, Palimpsest told me that my second disk drive (WD5000AAKS-0) wasn't healthy. It had a raw value of 296 for Current_Pending_Sector. I think that that means that there are 296 sectors known to read back incorrectly but that cannot be mapped out behind the scenes because that would cause silent data loss. Normally no partitions from that drive were mounted. A swap patition should never have been used since I have lots of RAM and a quite large swap partition on another drive with a less negative priority. When I mounted (read-only) one of the partitions, things seemed wonky. I got error messages in the kernel log: Mar 30 15:00:11 redsquare kernel: ata1.01: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x0 Mar 30 15:00:11 redsquare kernel: ata1.01: cmd c8/00:20:e8:b3:9d/00:00:00:00:00/f5 tag 0 dma 16384 in Mar 30 15:00:11 redsquare kernel: res 51/01:00:e8:b3:9d/00:00:00:00:00/f5 Emask 0x1 (device error) Mar 30 15:00:11 redsquare kernel: ata1.01: status: { DRDY ERR } Mar 30 15:00:11 redsquare kernel: ata1.00: configured for UDMA/100 Mar 30 15:00:11 redsquare kernel: ata1.01: configured for UDMA/133 Mar 30 15:00:11 redsquare kernel: ata1: EH complete and a bunch more bad stuff. I then rebooted and did a long test on the drive and got a raw count of 754. Yikes! The output of "smartclt -a" on the failing drive lists several errors: ATA Error Count: 14 (device log contains only the most recent five errors) All look like this: Error 14 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 11091 hours (462 days + 3 hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle. After command completion occurred, registers were: ER ST SC SN CL CH DH -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 01 51 00 70 16 71 e2 Error: AMNF at LBA = 0x02711670 = 40965744 Commands leading to the command that caused the error were: CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- -------------------- c8 00 06 70 16 71 02 00 00:00:57.247 READ DMA 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00:00:57.221 READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT ec 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00:00:57.218 IDENTIFY DEVICE ef 03 46 00 00 00 00 00 00:00:57.215 SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode] 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00:00:57.209 READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT These errors were unchanged by the long test (there had been 14 before and 14 after). So, as far as I can tell, the long test doesn't tell me where the bad blocks are. Of the five errors in the SMART log, only two LBAs were mentioned: 40965743 and 40965744. Those LBAs seem to be near the very end of the first partition (40965749). Too near to be pure coincidence. I rebooted and sometime later ran badblocks, read-only, on the drive (not the partition) and it found no bad blocks! dmesg showed no logged I/O errors on the drive. Not even for the two LBAs mentioned. I added a new drive to the system and did a dd of the whole bad disk to the new, larger drive. Again, no errors. A very superficial check of the copy (fsck -f) finds no problems. A couple of smartctl -a messages are unclear to me: Offline data collection status: (0x84) Offline data collection activity was suspended by an interrupting command from host. Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled. Self-test execution status: ( 119) The previous self-test completed having the read element of the test failed. Total time to complete Offline data collection: (12600) seconds. What might have caused the data collection activity to suspend? Something I did (what?) or something Linux did? I let Palimpsest run the long test and didn't do anything with the drive until it said that the test was finished. Why does it not tell me more about the read element failure (like, say an LBA)? PS: the documentation was useful. Thanks. I recommend that it mention badblocks(8), a little less ad-hoc than the dd loop. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 4 02:08:13 2010 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 19:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: burning files from samba share In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <674153.57717.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Try mounting the share onto an empty directory and then burn it from there. You might need to install the samba-client package which contains the smbfs to be able to do the mounting. HTH, EK --- On Mon, 3/29/10, Thomas Milne wrote: From: Thomas Milne Subject: [TLUG]: burning files from samba share To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Received: Monday, March 29, 2010, 11:45 AM Now that all of my media is on the network, I'm curious about burning those files to a DVD sometimes for sharing. When I try to burn from a Samba share, I get an error that it is not supported. This is using the Nautilus utility for burning discs. Is there a better tool for this, or a method someone can point me to for this? I know it might be kinda slow, but it seems like my only option. Thanks! -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 4 02:28:11 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 22:28:11 -0400 Subject: Apache config -- allowing/rejecting remote host Message-ID: <20100404022811.GA8175@node1.opengeometry.net> In Apache's httpd.conf, is there a way to accept (or reject) connection based on incoming IP or Network. Eg. - accepting only (or rejecting) from host 11.22.33.44 - accepting only (or rejecting) from network 11.22.33.* I know that "xinetd" can do this from its config file. Not sure about Apache... -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 4 02:33:27 2010 From: ijaaz-UwkSZrAjFfdkDLQDXwjzI9BPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Ijaaz A. Ullah) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 22:33:27 -0400 Subject: Apache config -- allowing/rejecting remote host In-Reply-To: <20100404022811.GA8175-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20100404022811.GA8175@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:28 PM, William Park wrote: > In Apache's httpd.conf, is there a way to accept (or reject) connection > based on incoming IP or Network. ?Eg. > ? ?- accepting only (or rejecting) from host 11.22.33.44 > ? ?- accepting only (or rejecting) from network 11.22.33.* > > I know that "xinetd" can do this from its config file. ?Not sure about > Apache... > > -- > William > You can do something like this: order allow,deny allow from all deny from 11.22.33.44 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 4 02:45:19 2010 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 22:45:19 -0400 Subject: Apache config -- allowing/rejecting remote host In-Reply-To: References: <20100404022811.GA8175@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Ijaaz A. Ullah wrote: > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:28 PM, William Park wrote: >> In Apache's httpd.conf, is there a way to accept (or reject) connection >> based on incoming IP or Network. ?Eg. >> ? ?- accepting only (or rejecting) from host 11.22.33.44 >> ? ?- accepting only (or rejecting) from network 11.22.33.* >> > > You can do something like this: > > > order allow,deny > allow from all > > deny from 11.22.33.44 > You may also want to check the docs for order, allow and deny: Cheers -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teecee-3xpccZqdWRo7lZ9V/NTDHw at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 4 23:26:35 2010 From: teecee-3xpccZqdWRo7lZ9V/NTDHw at public.gmane.org (TeeCee) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 19:26:35 -0400 Subject: Help with plug and play - USB Webcam conflicts with Tv Tuner - fixed, sort of + udev question In-Reply-To: <8CC9D72DF252BA0-1120-1789-uLXz1gKW/XUpy7wrBbGQnLgMRKj5Rqyl0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org> References: <8CC9CC5CB0D7F67-868-9029@web-mmc-d08.sysops.aol.com> <8CC9D72DF252BA0-1120-1789@web-mmc-m01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CCA265671060E4-16A0-C12C@web-mmc-d09.sysops.aol.com> I was at my friends again today and got things working mostly. tvtime -d /dev/video1 | arecord -D hw:1,0 -r 32000 -c 2 -f S16_LE | aplay -D hw:1,0 gets the sound working, I can start gnomeradio to use the fm tuner on the capture card with the same options as well. So right now, if everything stays plugged in where it is no problem. I'm wondering; can udev evaluate conditions on its own in order to set the tv capture card to symlink /dev/video0 to /dev/tv_capture when there is no webcam installed or symlink /dev/video1 to /dev/tv_capture when there is. Thanks for all suggestions. TC -----Original Message----- From: TeeCee To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Mon, Mar 29, 2010 12:20 pm Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Help with plug and play - USB Webcam conflicts with Tv Tuner Hi, thanks for responding to this thread. I tried blacklisting the saa7134 but then tvtime can't start the module on its own. Without the webcam installed I use this to start tvtime with sound.? ? tvtime | arecord -D hw:1,0 -r 32000 -c 2 -f S16_LE | aplay? ? However if I keep the cam in and use -d to set the device to video1? ? tvtime -d /dev/video1 | arecord -D hw:1,0 -r 32000 -c 2 -f S16_LE | aplay? ? I get tuner output with this terminal message? ? Recording WAVE 'stdin' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Rate 32000 Hz, Stereo? arecord: set_params:984: Channels count non available? Running tvtime 1.0.2.? Reading configuration from /etc/tvtime/tvtime.xml? Reading configuration from /home/tomcee/.tvtime/tvtime.xml? aplay: playback:2297: read error? ? I also tried using -F to load a config file with device=/dev/video1? No luck.? ? Can anyone tell me what's wrong with the syntax of the command.? ? At this point leaving the cam at /dev/video0 and the tuner at /dev/video1, I'm back where I started with no sound output from the tuner card.? ? Thanks for your help.? ? TC? ? -----Original Message-----? From: TeeCee ? To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org? Sent: Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:41 pm? Subject: [TLUG]: Help with plug and play - USB Webcam conflicts with Tv Tuner? ? HI, I'm helping a friend with configuring an Ubuntu install. The default kernel has taken care of most things.?? His Brother Multifunction Printer/Scanner was supported on the web, the MSI TV tuner card worked from the?? get go. This card was 5 years old and had a dongle to connect to a sound card. It was not needed, I got?? sound by piping tvtime through arecord and aplay. Even the IR remote works, to an extent, apparently?? without lirc installed.?? ?? The problem is, now my friend has purchased a web cam. Plugging the cam into a running computer, it is?? found as /dev/video1, and it does not conflict with the MSI device. However, rebooting with the camera attached?? causes problems. Tvtime has assigned its video input to camera1 and you cannot change it with the app. Nor?? can you close tvtimes terminal, even if I run it from a tty ctrl-c kills itself but leaves the tvtime window.?? ?? I guess my question is how can I bind this web cam to /dev/video1, assuming I'm leaving the camera plugged?? in all the time??? ?? Thanks in advance for any help.?? ?? TC?? ?? ?? ?? ?--?? The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/?? TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns?? How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists?? ? ?--? The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/? TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns? How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 00:05:39 2010 From: erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Erik L) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 20:05:39 -0400 Subject: OpenWrt/MLPPP v1.0 alpha 2 released Message-ID: Follow-up to my posts from February... Caneris and Acanac are pleased to announce the release of OpenWrt/MLPPP v1.0 alpha 2. This release fixes numerous bugs, introduces much wider hardware support (including Mikrotik RouterBoard 750s; kernel development for these was sponsored by us), and adds new and simplified usability and UI features (e.g. QuickStart). For complete details and the changelog, please visit http://www.fw5.net We're planning the v1.0 final release for early May 2010 - feature requests and bug reports are welcome on our forums at http://forum.fw5.net Enjoy! Erik From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 01:41:59 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 21:41:59 -0400 Subject: itech Trade Show - April 29th, 2010 Message-ID: Just to make sure folks don't confuse the issue, at one point it felt like there was only one IT trade show in Toronto, IT360 trade show (http://www.it360.ca/), one that I have found to be somewhat ... disappointing ... the last few years... Now there is at least one other player in the trade show arena... The other trade show to be aware of is itech (http://www.itechsummit.ca/) coming up on April 29th at the International Centre (near Pearson Airport). Yes, there is a fee to register for this show, but if you have the right code, that registration fee can be reduced down to $0.00 (and you know the e-mail address of at least one person who has that code :-) ). The list of sponsors contains a number of firms that are well enough respected in the Linux community, such as Red Hat, IBM, Dell, Hitachi Data Systems, and D-Link. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 03:27:08 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 23:27:08 -0400 Subject: Apache config -- allowing/rejecting remote host In-Reply-To: References: <20100404022811.GA8175@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20100405032708.GA22613@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 10:45:19PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Ijaaz A. Ullah > wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:28 PM, William Park wrote: > >> In Apache's httpd.conf, is there a way to accept (or reject) connection > >> based on incoming IP or Network. ?Eg. > >> ? ?- accepting only (or rejecting) from host 11.22.33.44 > >> ? ?- accepting only (or rejecting) from network 11.22.33.* > >> > > > > > You can do something like this: > > > > > > order allow,deny > > allow from all > > > > deny from 11.22.33.44 > > > > You may also want to check the docs for order, allow and deny: > Thanks! -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 03:45:53 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 23:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: news items on cbc.ca cannot be viewed on Linux Message-ID: I saw an interesting item on the National Thursday night. I wanted to send it to my daughter. With some difficulty, I found the item: Unfortunately, it would not play without the proprietary Adobe Flash plugin. I don't have flash on my computer because it is the single largest vector for malware on the web. My daughter does have Flash on her computer but she could still not see the item. Why? I tried with the same browser (FireFox with Flash plugin) on a WindowsXP system and the video was viewable. After much wasted time, I came across this: CBC videos don't play on a Linux system, even with the required Flash plugin. Apparently this is a known bug with the CBC website that the CBC so far has refused to fix. See The web in general, and Flash in particular, is designed to be OS-agnostic. So there is no reason why UberPlayer (the source of the problem) should fail under Linux. Since it is proprietary code it is hard for me to determine the coding flaw. Surely CBC paid for this code and the vendor should actually be responsible for fixing it. A reasonable vendor would not even charge for fixing bugs. Could you intercede? This is blocking my access to news on the CBC site and that would seem to come under your mandate. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 04:43:45 2010 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 00:43:45 -0400 Subject: news items on cbc.ca cannot be viewed on Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100405004345.c2d7250a.tleslie@tcn.net> This pissed me off somewhat. My first thought was, does it also not play on the PS3. If it didn't , then the comment about 1% or less would be bogus (well with respect to possible visitors). My PS3 broke the other day, same BGA solder issue that is systematically nuking all the ps3's :(. Anyways, can someone with a ps3 try the link? I have tried in my mint8, and openSuse11.2 and no dice. There is a crappy work-around posted on the URL (stated in the original post) below. If it works on PS3, and Win, and Mac, I can understand CBC not wanting to fix it, as it would be about 1% give or take. They got a crappy contractor to build it, and they are not likely to be able to go back now and demand a fix. I would hope, if other sites are affected that they would build a FF/Chrome extension to essentially examine the script code and get at the flv, and present it (much like the hack posted). They have extensions that do a whole bunch more complex things. tl On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 23:45:53 -0400 (EDT) "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > I saw an interesting item on the National Thursday night. I wanted to > send it to my daughter. > > With some difficulty, I found the item: > > > Unfortunately, it would not play without the proprietary Adobe Flash > plugin. I don't have flash on my computer because it is the single > largest vector for malware on the web. > > My daughter does have Flash on her computer but she could still not > see the item. Why? > > I tried with the same browser (FireFox with Flash plugin) on a WindowsXP > system and the video was viewable. > > After much wasted time, I came across this: > > CBC videos don't play on a Linux system, even with the required Flash > plugin. > > Apparently this is a known bug with the CBC website that the CBC > so far has refused to fix. See > > > The web in general, and Flash in particular, is designed to be > OS-agnostic. So there is no reason why UberPlayer (the source of the > problem) should fail under Linux. Since it is proprietary code it is > hard for me to determine the coding flaw. > > Surely CBC paid for this code and the vendor should actually be > responsible for fixing it. A reasonable vendor would not even charge > for fixing bugs. > > Could you intercede? This is blocking my access to news on the CBC > site and that would seem to come under your mandate. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 10:26:42 2010 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 06:26:42 -0400 Subject: Help with plug and play - USB Webcam conflicts with Tv Tuner - fixed, sort of + udev question In-Reply-To: <8CCA265671060E4-16A0-C12C-uLXz1gKW/XVeiMnAuoZMCrgMRKj5Rqyl0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>; from teecee-3xpccZqdWRo7lZ9V/NTDHw@public.gmane.org on Sun, Apr 04, 2010 at 19:26:35 -0400 References: <8CC9CC5CB0D7F67-868-9029@web-mmc-d08.sysops.aol.com> <8CC9D72DF252BA0-1120-1789@web-mmc-m01.sysops.aol.com> <8CCA265671060E4-16A0-C12C@web-mmc-d09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20100405102642.GA1526@localhost> On Sun Apr 04,2010 07:26:35 PM TeeCee wrote: > I'm wondering; can udev evaluate conditions on its own in order to > set the tv capture card to symlink /dev/video0 > to /dev/tv_capture when there is no webcam installed > or symlink /dev/video1 to /dev/tv_capture when there is. You request came out as sort of a run-on sentence on my mail reader, so it's difficult to understand exactly what you are saying. If it's not a problem for you to have a device appear as multiple names at the same time, (e.g. as both /dev/video1 and /dev/tv_capture) then I think you can create udev rules for this. If you want the name of a device to change based on some other factor, such as if another device name already exists, then I don't know if this is possible with just a simple rule (but it may be). I'm pretty sure, though, that you can set a udev rule to execute a script or program for a given device. This script/program could do some evaluation and then set a symlink as appropriate. Is this what you want? : - webcam is always /dev/video0 (no matter when or how many times it's plugged in or unplugged) - tv capture card is always /dev/video1 and also /dev/tv_capture (whether the webcam is present or not) If so, this is what udev rules were meant for. You need a rule to always set the webcam to /dev/video0, using its USB ID, name, or some other unique identifier. You need another rule for the tv capture card to set it to both /dev/video1 and /dev/tv_capture, again using some unique identifier for the card. Note that you want to have your rules override the existing rules that create /dev/videoX when each of your devices are identified. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 11:42:31 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 07:42:31 -0400 Subject: allow suspension of message delivery on list? Message-ID: hey folks, a question for the admins -- any chance of upgrading majordomo to a version that allows suspension of delivery to an address? It'd be very useful to me for any number of reasons, but currently mostly because I'm reading my list email on gmail but sending mostly from another account using an emacs mailer (I can configure it to send from the gmail address, but sometimes I forget). hmm... googling around it seems maybe there is no such version of majordomo -- is there a strong reason not to be using mailman instead? Are there other users who miss the suspend feature too? Thanks, Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 11:45:36 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 07:45:36 -0400 Subject: Open Source Toronto Calendar; Social Tech Social Message-ID: Hi TLUGers, Here's something that's been on my agenda to do for the last month! I've been wanting to invite everyone who's interested to come join us at the Social Tech Social. This is a monthly meeting that we finally held for the first time in March, after thinking about it for quite a while, for people itnerestedi n using Free & Open Source Software in projects aimed at some kind of social change. It's a very loose gathering -- just a bunch of people getting together to talk about their projects, the challenges we face, and the ways we can support each other. Last month we had artists, techies, and activists in the group, and would welcome anyone who's interested. Here's a link to the event: http://socialtechto.ning.com/events/black-horse-meeting-for-social Also: while trying to schedule our first meeting we had so much trouble with conflicts we thought there should be a calendar of ALL the Free/Open Source Software-related events in Toronto. So we made one -- you can find it at http://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/nlip1ngtid4qa4srg1517grb3k% 40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/nlip1ngtid4qa4srg1517grb3k% 40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=nlip1ngtid4qa4srg1517grb3k% 40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/Toronto (that's in xml, ics, and html formats) Right now there's not much on it -- but if you have suggestions of stuff that *should* be there, send me a link and I'll put it on; or if you'll regularly have stuff to add, let me know and I'll give you write privileges. Our hope is that it can be a central repository of scheduling information for our communities. Anyway -- hope to see some of you on Wednesday night, and hope the calendar becomes useful (rightn ow it's not especially so). All the best, Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 12:11:01 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 08:11:01 -0400 Subject: allow suspension of message delivery on list? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Matt Price wrote: > hey folks, > > a question for the admins -- any chance of upgrading majordomo to a > version that allows suspension of delivery to an address? ?It'd be > very useful to me for any number of reasons, but currently mostly > because I'm reading my list email on gmail but sending mostly from > another account using an emacs mailer (I can configure it to send from > the gmail address, but sometimes I forget). ?hmm... ?googling around > it seems maybe there is no such version of majordomo -- is there a > strong reason not to be using mailman instead? ?Are there other users > who miss the suspend feature too? The mailing list is run by Drew Sullivan off of one of his machines. I am BCC:ing Drew as I know he doesn't normally read the main TLUG list (due to lack of time). I think the issue would be time/effort/payback for Drew. Drew has in place a mailing list manager program that works fairly well, Majordomo. So the question then becomes, would the extra features of Mailman be worth the time/effort required by Drew to install/configure Mailman? I strongly suspect that unless a horrific flaw is found in Majordomo, the answer will be NO. Colin McGregor > Thanks, > > Matt > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 12:21:04 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 07:51:04 -0430 Subject: Open Source Toronto Calendar; Social Tech Social In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Matt Price wrote: > Hi TLUGers, > > Here's something that's been on my agenda to do for the last month! > I've been wanting to invite everyone who's interested to come join us at > the Social Tech Social. ?[ ... ] > http://socialtechto.ning.com/events/black-horse-meeting-for-social > > Also: ?while trying to schedule our first meeting we had so much trouble > with conflicts we thought there should be a calendar of ALL the > Free/Open Source Software-related events in Toronto. [ ... ] > Anyway -- hope to see some of you on Wednesday night, and hope the > calendar becomes useful (rightn ow it's not especially so). ?All the > best, > Matt Dear Matt, Sounds like fun. Also, please consider the F/LOSS event calendar, here. http://kwlug.org/node/611 Perhaps you and the other maintainer can merge your feeds? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 15:09:38 2010 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 11:09:38 -0400 Subject: [OT?] Android phones In-Reply-To: References: <4BAD7E1B.6090501@buynet.com> <3a97ef1003262100t4f1b7460m431984b5921a2e7a@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef1003262102t3677a832naae985f1e2e7d7ff@mail.gmail.com> <4BAE664E.8080703@rogers.com> <601551AD-4AC7-47B9-9E49-876C5F308D0F@gmail.com> <4BAF3F09.1010601@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 1 April 2010 18:23, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > What a "common Linux system" means is a mighty elusive thing; >> > At one level, it isn't. The Linux Standard Base group (now a part of the Linux Foundation) has a fairly well-defined standard of what a minimum core "Linux OS" should look like... kernels, libraries, core apps, etc. ( http://www.linuxbase.org) > IMHO Linus is partly to blame for this. :-) Obviously Linux refer to the > Linux kernel. However when asked about naming the OS which were built on top > of the Linux kernel, Linux preferred to call it Linux as well. Well, now > everything that have a little part of Linux in it, is being call Linux. :-) Generally these days, in my travels "Linux-based system" has been accepted to means anything with a Linux kernel and other stuff built on that. A "Linux (operating) system" these days generally means something that is LSB compliant of very nearly so. And calling something a "GNU/Linux system" describes more about the person talking than about the system. > Which actually have very little in common with Linux OS. Same with WebOS, I > guess. The may have little more than kernels and core libraries, but that's a reasonably common foundation. > Well, actually I guess common Linux applications may be able run trivially > in Meego x86s phones. :-) Yeah, I just can't wait for the ability to run KDE and OpenOffice and Gimp and Seamonkey on my 3.5" touchscreen. :-P Just because they can be done doesn't necessarily mean that they should. There are very few standard apps that I can run on my Kubuntu desktop -- or the Netbook Remix on my EeePC, for that matter -- which I'd like to see duplicated on my smartphone. If there was any lesson learned from the rampant success of the iPhone and the parallel miserable failure to date of Windows Mobile, it's that the entire user-centric paradigm needs to be different on mobile devices. Not only the interface but the entire relationship between user and device. For similar reasons, the iPad (which I find boring) is the hype-darling-du-jour while previous mobile devices, from the early Windows attempts to the OQO and the Nokia NX00, are treated as if they never existed. It's why nobody really gives a damn about the HP Slate, which is little more than a conventional Windows netbook with some touchscreen features instead of a keyboard. For all its warts, IMO Google seemed to do what was necessary to fully adapt Linux to mobile devices to provide a credible iPhone alternative -- keep the Linux core but overhaul substantial chunks of the periphery to suit the needs of tiny device users and developers, and keep the ecosystem open. We can already start to see some of the same fragmentation-on-top issues based on the different front ends that Moto and HTC have been adding to the stock OS, not too unlike the KDE/GNOME desktop rivalries. It is indeed an ecosystem of its own, enabled by a Linux core but with a very different direction from the LSB. By contrast, the Google ChromeOS looks to be a more conventional "Linux OS" (though stripped down and with a new UI). - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 16:35:16 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 12:35:16 -0400 Subject: hot plugging eSATA In-Reply-To: References: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca> <20090811140445.GA3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100405163516.GZ4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 12:14:33PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Thanks for this clue. > > I tried hotp lugging eSATA on my machine (HP Pavilion a6245n desktop > with Intel G33 and ICH9R chipset). It didn't seem to work. > > I went to the BIOS and found > Advanced: SATA1 controller mode [IDE] > SATA2 Controller [Enabled] > I switched to > Advanced: SATA1 controller mode [AHCI] > and the SATA2 line disappeard?!? > > I rebooted and hot plugging worked. At least kind of. > > Lessons: > - all SATA controllers support hot plug No they don't. > - generally only in AHCI mode AHCI does, but a lot of older controllers are NOT AHCI. > - some (lots?) of BIOSes have setting that sets the mode True. > - the default setting may be IDE or ATA preventing hot plug Also true. > - the reason might be that some versions of Windows don't come whith > AHCI drivers. Like XP. And intel has been an ass in that they only provide AHCI drivers for their older chipsets (like yours) if it is the R version (so ICH9R has AHCI drivers, ICH9 does not). No actual good reason, they just don't want to. They even told board makers to remove AHCI options from boards using the ICH9 (which is why my board now runs a BIOS from a board with the ICH9R that is otherwise identical in every other way). I simply have a P5K running a P5KR bios. That way I can run AHCI which is pretty much essential with more than 4GB ram (since in IDE/compatible mode it is only 32bit DMA capable and uses bounce buffers which have trouble keeping up, while AHCI is 64bit DMA capable and works great, and allows hotplug drive changes). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 16:41:28 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 12:41:28 -0400 Subject: Spiders and crawlers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100405164128.GA4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 05:56:35PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I'm looking to implement a spidering system intended to look through a bunch > of catalog websites, in order to track changes to those catalogs (with the > help of a backend MySQL system). I always wonder: Why mysql? Postgresql is an obviously better and more scalable choice. Why do so many people just barge ahead with mysql? > The Wikipedia entry for "web crawler" returns a lot of interesting choices; > I'm wondering is anyone here has experience in either writing one or using > an existing open source one. I'm hoping for something that is reasonably > configurable so that one doesn't need to know a language like C or Java to > make minor config changes. > > Any help is appreciated. Well I haven't ever done that. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 16:51:34 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 16:51:34 +0000 Subject: Spiders and crawlers In-Reply-To: <20100405164128.GA4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100405164128.GA4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 05:56:35PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> I'm looking to implement a spidering system intended to look through a bunch >> of catalog websites, in order to track changes to those catalogs (with the >> help of a backend MySQL system). > > I always wonder: Why mysql? ?Postgresql is an obviously better and more > scalable choice. ?Why do so many people just barge ahead with mysql? If you're going down that road, why not barge ahead with APDB instead? http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Announcing-APDB-The-Worlds-Fastest-Database.aspx "Relational and post-relational databases have the notion of index look-up, which means that retrieving a piece of data involves a long, arduous process: - Find, on disk, where the appropriate index file is stored - Look for a free block of RAM in which the index file can be loaded - Load the index file into memory - Iterate over each index entry until the desired key matches the index key - When/if found, load the actual data location into memory - Find, on disk, where the actual data is stored using the index locator - Look for a free block of RAM in which the actual data can be loaded - Load the actual data into memory With APDB, this process is reduced to one step: go to the actual location that matches the index key specified. No middleman, index files, or other nonsense needed; just go directly to the data you want." Note that for those that are unhappy at how long it takes to access (possibly cached?) data via fread(), APDB has a further performance optimization. Careful analysis showed that all modern disk drives use microcontrollers from just 2 manufacturers, who allow firmware rewrites, thereby supporting the following: "By rewriting the harddrive?s firmware, APDB can operate in the most performant mode possible" -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 16:53:04 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 12:53:04 -0400 Subject: Spiders and crawlers In-Reply-To: <20100405164128.GA4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100405164128.GA4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 05:56:35PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> I'm looking to implement a spidering system intended to look through a bunch >> of catalog websites, in order to track changes to those catalogs (with the >> help of a backend MySQL system). > > I always wonder: Why mysql? ?Postgresql is an obviously better and more > scalable choice. ?Why do so many people just barge ahead with mysql? Always wondered that myself, my first thought is that it isn't that obvious to people who barge ahead with mysql. Have you tried searching for 'java web crawler' --dc-- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 17:35:26 2010 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 13:35:26 -0400 Subject: Spiders and crawlers In-Reply-To: <20100405164128.GA4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100405164128.GA4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 5 April 2010 12:41, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 05:56:35PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > I'm looking to implement a spidering system intended to look through a > bunch > > of catalog websites, in order to track changes to those catalogs (with > the > > help of a backend MySQL system). > > I always wonder: Why mysql? Postgresql is an obviously better and more > scalable choice. Why do so many people just barge ahead with mysql? > And I often wonder why some people like answering a question with a totally unrelated (and in many cases, irrelevant) answer? MySQL is a tiny detail to this issue, it could as easily be any generic SQL database and in this situation I don't have a choice. I was just giving a hint to how the final data would have to be presented. Sheesh. > Any help is appreciated. > > Well I haven't ever done that. :) > So why did you bother answering? - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 19:27:54 2010 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 15:27:54 -0400 Subject: [OT?] Android phones In-Reply-To: References: <4BAD7E1B.6090501@buynet.com> <3a97ef1003262100t4f1b7460m431984b5921a2e7a@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef1003262102t3677a832naae985f1e2e7d7ff@mail.gmail.com> <4BAE664E.8080703@rogers.com> <601551AD-4AC7-47B9-9E49-876C5F308D0F@gmail.com> <4BAF3F09.1010601@rogers.com> Message-ID: I just received email notification that Rogers is taking pre-orders for the Sony Ericsson Experia X10, $149 with a three year contract. Ratings are nice. The big pluses are a 4-inch screen, the best camera of any Android phone (8MPix, 2 LED flashes), good battery and better-than-standard apps for IM and media play. The big minuses are that it's Android 1.6 and that it can't do multitouch. So? $149 for a lock-in contract, or $529US for freedom? This would be a much easier call if the cell plans were less expensive for an unsubsidized phone, but they're not. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 19:29:53 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 15:29:53 -0400 Subject: Spiders and crawlers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BBA3A31.6010203@dinamis.com> On 04/01/2010 05:56 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm looking to implement a spidering system intended to look through a > bunch of catalog websites, in order to track changes to those catalogs > (with the help of a backend MySQL system). > > The Wikipedia entry for "web crawler" returns a lot of interesting > choices; I'm wondering is anyone here has experience in either writing > one or using an existing open source one. I'm hoping for something that > is reasonably configurable so that one doesn't need to know a language > like C or Java to make minor config changes. This sort of thing is easy to do with Python, whether you use string slicing, regular expressions, or an XML/HTML parser. I've used all three methods. Which method I use depends on the particulars of the situation. Here is an example from a recent project where I had to screen-scrape (another term for "crawl" or "spider") a jobs site and fetch the unique identifier for each job from an HTML table of jobs using an XPath query and put the unique identifier (guid) in a Python list (job_guids). from lxml import html def get_job_guids(url): job_guids = [] # Omit exception handling code tree = html.parse(url).getroot() table_rows = tree.xpath('//tr[@class="even"] | //tr[@class="odd"]') for the_row in table_rows: the_url = the_row.xpath('.//a')[0].values()[0] guid = the_url[the_url.find('{')+1:the_url.find('}')] job_guids.append(guid) return job_guids That function returns a list of unique identifiers (job_guids), which I then iterate over to fetch the details on each individual job into another list (all_jobs). I then iterate over that list and save each job with its details in a database (PostgreSQL in my case) using the Django ORM (Object/Relational Mapper). Here is an excerpt of that code. from dinamis_cms.models import Job def save_jobs(all_jobs): for the_job in all_jobs: job = Job() job.guid = the_job['guid'] job.title = the_job['title'] job.job_type = the_job['job_type'] job.start_date = the_job['start_date'] # Omit a bunch of other attributes and exception handling code job.save() Whitespace is significant in Python so be mindful of that in case your email client mangles the code above. Each code block above is indented with four spaces. I tried to use the Selenium testing framework to do this at one point but I found it easier to just write the script than to point and click and fiddle with the generated code. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 15:22:16 2010 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 11:22:16 -0400 Subject: Open Source Toronto Calendar; Social Tech Social In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1270480936.28501.58.camel@cougar-hardy> On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 07:51 -0430, Richard Weait wrote: > Also, please consider the F/LOSS event calendar, here. > http://kwlug.org/node/611 Uh oh. That page says that there is a KWLUG meeting today. My understanding both from what I heard at the March meeting and from is that the meeting is April 12. Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 20:34:54 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 16:34:54 -0400 Subject: Spiders and crawlers In-Reply-To: References: <20100405164128.GA4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100405203454.GB4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 04:51:34PM +0000, Christopher Browne wrote: > If you're going down that road, why not barge ahead with APDB instead? > > http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Announcing-APDB-The-Worlds-Fastest-Database.aspx Because it is features, reliability and functionally that sane people look for. Not speed. Speed is nice, but way way down the list of things to look for in a database. > "Relational and post-relational databases have the notion of index > look-up, which means that retrieving a piece of data involves a long, > arduous process: > > - Find, on disk, where the appropriate index file is stored > - Look for a free block of RAM in which the index file can be loaded > - Load the index file into memory > - Iterate over each index entry until the desired key matches the index key > - When/if found, load the actual data location into memory > - Find, on disk, where the actual data is stored using the index locator > - Look for a free block of RAM in which the actual data can be loaded > - Load the actual data into memory Ehm, OK, anyone that thinks CHS is a useful index these days has no clue what they are talking about. Also javascript is used client side. I don't want the client touching the database directly. So again, what makes anyone think this person has any clue what they are talking about? Apparently some people believe that the operating system is in the way of getting things done. Too bad it actualyl does a lot of useful work that you don't want to have to implement in every application. > With APDB, this process is reduced to one step: go to the actual > location that matches the index key specified. No middleman, index > files, or other nonsense needed; just go directly to the data you > want." > > Note that for those that are unhappy at how long it takes to access > (possibly cached?) data via fread(), APDB has a further performance > optimization. Careful analysis showed that all modern disk drives use > microcontrollers from just 2 manufacturers, who allow firmware > rewrites, thereby supporting the following: > > "By rewriting the harddrive?s firmware, APDB can operate in the most > performant mode possible" Speed really isn't that important (which is in my opinion what has made so many people use mysql out of sheer ignorance). Having it fast when only one person uses it really doesn't matter. Always doing the right thing, and maintaining good performance when lots of people are using it matter a lot more. Being compliant with common standards so you can easily move to another implementation someday is also nice. postgresql and some others are very SQL standards compliant. Mysql certainly never has been that I have seen. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 20:38:25 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 16:38:25 -0400 Subject: Spiders and crawlers In-Reply-To: References: <20100405164128.GA4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100405203825.GC4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 01:35:26PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > And I often wonder why some people like answering a question with a totally > unrelated (and in many cases, irrelevant) answer? > MySQL is a tiny detail to this issue, it could as easily be any generic SQL > database and in this situation I don't have a choice. I was just giving a > hint to how the final data would have to be presented. So a sensible approach is to just say "Using a database to store the results". Stating mysql already shows a fundamental flaw in the plan. There is always choice. Being to lazy to tell people they are asking for the wrong thing should not be a choice however. > Sheesh. > > > Any help is appreciated. > > > > Well I haven't ever done that. :) > > > > So why did you bother answering? To try and make the world a better place by slowly correcting the above consistent stupidity. It's like people who just assume running Windows on a machine is the solution and doesn't even need to be considered. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 17:26:23 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 13:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Spiders and crawlers In-Reply-To: References: <20100405164128.GA4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <11879.99.253.254.243.1270488383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > "By rewriting the harddrive?s firmware, APDB can operate in the most > performant mode possible" Holy . Do you want some third party fiddling around with the firmware on your hard drive?. Not me, thanks. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 20:58:02 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 20:58:02 +0000 Subject: Spiders and crawlers In-Reply-To: <11879.99.253.254.243.1270488383.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20100405164128.GA4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <11879.99.253.254.243.1270488383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 5:26 PM, wrote: > >> "By rewriting the harddrive?s firmware, APDB can operate in the most >> performant mode possible" > > Holy . Do you want some third party fiddling around with the > firmware on your hard drive?. Not me, thanks. Everyone should realize that the APDB article was released Four Days Ago. One might imply how seriously to take it from that ;-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 21:34:39 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 17:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: in Toronto this month: International Symposium on Code Generation and Optimization Message-ID: This is about compilers etc. This is a conference for presenting research work. If you don't know anything about the topics, the sessions won't make any sense. (Don't infer that they will make sense if you do know something about the topics.) After today, the registration fees go up. Sponsored by IEEE and ACM, not for profit, and yet not cheap: US$550 for members. Tutorials and worshops extra. I'm not finding many things in the program compelling. The tutorials and workshops look more interesting. I didn't know of (open source from VMWare) or (free but not open source; from Intel). Both are instrumentation tools and each has a tutorial. The ODES workshop's focus is on Software Defined Radio. Transactional Memory may become important. There is a tutorial on that. EPIC (think: itanium) may eventually turn out to be important. The workshop looks interesting. Too bad the Open64 workshop is cancelled. Open64 is an open source compiler suite. I've never used it. Has anyone else? I think I heard that Apple is switching to using it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 5 22:36:19 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 18:36:19 -0400 Subject: in Toronto this month: International Symposium on Code Generation and Optimization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100405223619.GD4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 05:34:39PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > This is about compilers etc. > > > This is a conference for presenting research work. If you don't know > anything about the topics, the sessions won't make any sense. (Don't > infer that they will make sense if you do know something about the > topics.) > > After today, the registration fees go up. Sponsored by IEEE and ACM, > not for profit, and yet not cheap: US$550 for members. Tutorials and > worshops extra. Ouch! Makes linux symposium look really cheap. > I'm not finding many things in the program compelling. The tutorials and > workshops look more interesting. > > I didn't know of (open source from > VMWare) or (free but not open source; from > Intel). Both are instrumentation tools and each has a tutorial. > > The ODES workshop's focus is on Software Defined Radio. > > Transactional Memory may become important. There is a tutorial on that. > > EPIC (think: itanium) may eventually turn out to be important. The > workshop looks interesting. How so? Microsoft has just announced there won't be any future windows versions for it. About 2/3 of itanium boxes run HP-UX or other HP unix, and about 1/3 run linux. Less than 5% run windows, and hence counts as nearly none given the total number of itanium boxes out there. I just don't see how it could ever become important. > Too bad the Open64 workshop is cancelled. Open64 is an open source > compiler suite. I've never used it. Has anyone else? I think I heard > that Apple is switching to using it. That could have been interesting. I believe nvidia's cuda/openCL stuff uses it too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 6 02:20:27 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 22:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: in Toronto this month: International Symposium on Code Generation and Optimization In-Reply-To: <20100405223619.GD4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100405223619.GD4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | > EPIC (think: itanium) may eventually turn out to be important. The | > workshop looks interesting. | | How so? Microsoft has just announced there won't be any future windows | versions for it. About 2/3 of itanium boxes run HP-UX or other HP unix, | and about 1/3 run linux. Less than 5% run windows, and hence counts as | nearly none given the total number of itanium boxes out there. I just | don't see how it could ever become important. As I read it, this is not just about iTanium. "Eighth Workshop on Explicitly Parallel Instruction Computing Architectures and Compiler Technology (EPIC-8)". Note the plural "Architectures". I don't know how they define EPIC. Some say it is a synonym for Itanium, but then again, other architectures claim to be EPIC too (eg. recent Elbrus architectures). To me it is VLIW (quite interesting) plus a bunch of additional features to try to make this practical. I don't deeply understand the Itanium's problems. I've heard or made up many plausible explanations but they may not be right. - Intel spent all its energy on x86, its bread and butter (see Christensen's "The Innovator's Dilemma" for an explanation of why this is to be expected) - static scheduling is really hard when cached memory systems are very effective but each reference's time is very hard to predict. Some workloads could be tractable (eg. linear algebra). - memory bandwidth is the main barrier; perhaps the organization of the processor is not that important. - I think that VLIW has poor code-density. Not just because of the size of instructions but also VLIW optimization techniques such as trace scheduling. - VLIW seems a poor match for the kind of code I usually write: short basic blocks and lots of them. I think that the case against VLIW and EPIC is not yet proven. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 6 02:45:53 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 22:45:53 -0400 Subject: Spiders and crawlers In-Reply-To: <20100405164128.GA4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100405164128.GA4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:41, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 05:56:35PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > I'm looking to implement a spidering system intended to look through a > bunch > > of catalog websites, in order to track changes to those catalogs (with > the > > help of a backend MySQL system). > > I always wonder: Why mysql? Postgresql is an obviously better and more > scalable choice. Why do so many people just barge ahead with mysql? > I was going to say that mysql is more widely supported, but this is clearly not true, so... beats me. Even more now when most languages have pretty fine ORMs available. FZ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 6 09:43:45 2010 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 05:43:45 -0400 Subject: Spiders and crawlers In-Reply-To: References: <20100405164128.GA4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <11879.99.253.254.243.1270488383.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20100406054345.3t3mzprzswos0sg8@mail.math.yorku.ca> Quoting Christopher Browne : > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 5:26 PM, wrote: >> >>> "By rewriting the harddrive?s firmware, APDB can operate in the most >>> performant mode possible" >> >> Holy . Do you want some third party fiddling around with the >> firmware on your hard drive?. Not me, thanks. > > Everyone should realize that the APDB article was released Four Days > Ago. One might imply how seriously to take it from that ;-). I don't think I would have figured it out on my own, but this link was prominently featured: http://www.newcougar.org/forums/lounge/143524-april-fools-web.html#post1732645 . I think there's a limit to how subtle you really ought to make an April Fools' joke. But maybe that just proves I'm not one of the in crowd who's *supposed* to get it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 6 12:50:11 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 13:50:11 +0100 Subject: Spiders and crawlers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would look at Solr and Nutch[1]. Ye the are Java based but you can access you data in Solr thought HTTP XML/JSON API. There are plenty of libraries out their for Python, Ruby, etc. [1]: http://wiki.apache.org/nutch/RunningNutchAndSolr On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 10:56 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm looking to implement a spidering system intended to look through a bunch > of catalog websites, in order to track changes to those catalogs (with the > help of a backend MySQL system). > > The Wikipedia entry for "web crawler" returns a lot of interesting choices; > I'm wondering is anyone here has experience in either writing one or using > an existing open source one. I'm hoping for something that is reasonably > configurable so that one doesn't need to know a language like C or Java to > make minor config changes. > > Any help is appreciated. > > -- > Evan Leibovitch > evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org > -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 6 15:14:36 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 11:14:36 -0400 Subject: in Toronto this month: International Symposium on Code Generation and Optimization In-Reply-To: References: <20100405223619.GD4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100406151436.GE4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 10:20:27PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > As I read it, this is not just about iTanium. "Eighth Workshop on > Explicitly Parallel Instruction Computing Architectures and Compiler > Technology (EPIC-8)". Note the plural "Architectures". > > I don't know how they define EPIC. Some say it is a synonym for > Itanium, but then again, other architectures claim to be EPIC too (eg. > recent Elbrus architectures). Well EPIC as it says above is simply an instruction set where the compiler is responsible for putting instructions to execute at the same time together in one long instruction word at compile time. The itanium has a VLIW with space for 3 instructions at a time. > To me it is VLIW (quite interesting) plus a bunch of additional > features to try to make this practical. > > I don't deeply understand the Itanium's problems. I've heard or made > up many plausible explanations but they may not be right. The EPIC/VLIW design was made on the assumption compiler technology would advance and doing compile time parallel instruction scheduling would become something compilers just did. Well the assumption has so far turned out to be completely wrong in general. Very few types of software seem able to be efficiently scheduled at compile time. Of course doing it at compile time would be great since you then save the out of order execution hardware which is rather costly (but very effective in general. It is generally considered to double the performance of a CPU. The atom doesn't have it. Most x86 chips do. That's the main reason the atom performs so much slower than its clock speed would make you think). Maybe someday compiler technology will do what intel (and HP) hoped it would do. The open64 compiler may be heading that way (not sure really, although it does seem better at optimizing parallel code than most compilers as far as I understand the description of it). So far gcc and most other compilers rarely manage to get more than one instruction in the VLIW at a time. The itanium would like three instructions at a time. This of course doesn't make for good use of the CPU. Some database code seems able to be optimized a bit better, but most code so far apparently does not compile well for the itanium at all, and hence the performance is in general rather awful for a CPU of that complexity (and cost). The only thing saving the itanium from complete death so far is that it was designed for high reliability systems. Unfortunately for the itanium the new xeon CPUs are starting to get those features too. Hence most vendors (anyone not named HP) including Microsoft are now abandoning the itanium. > - Intel spent all its energy on x86, its bread and butter (see > Christensen's "The Innovator's Dilemma" for an explanation of why > this is to be expected) Well for a while they didn't (hence AMD made x86_64, not intel, given intel was busy trying to convince the world itanium was the future). That has now changed (and intel seems to have dumped their arm division to marvell or something to focus pretty much entirely on x86). > - static scheduling is really hard when cached memory systems are > very effective but each reference's time is very hard to predict. > Some workloads could be tractable (eg. linear algebra). > > - memory bandwidth is the main barrier; perhaps the organization of the > processor is not that important. > > - I think that VLIW has poor code-density. Not just because of the > size of instructions but also VLIW optimization techniques such as > trace scheduling. > > - VLIW seems a poor match for the kind of code I usually write: short > basic blocks and lots of them. So far it has been a poor match for almost all code written by anyone. > I think that the case against VLIW and EPIC is not yet proven. Well so far there hasn't been any success stories for it that I have encountered. To me that pretty much is as good as proving it. I don't think x86 is a good instruction set by any means, but it sure looks a lot better than the itanium's instruction set. Powerpc is certainly nicer, as is sparc. Not sure about arm. Mips is pretty nice (well the new mips instruction set is nice, the old one lacked a few rather essential features). Not a fan of coldfire/m68k instructions either (I really don't like variable length instructions). There are CPU designs that impress me when they are announced. There are some that concern me. Some I am not sure about. When the pentium 4 was announced, I expected problems. The pipeline simple went way beyond anything traditional CPU architecture design says makes sense. I am sure AMD loved it. It really did turn out to be as bad an inefficient on general purpose code as traditional text books on CPU archtrecture design predicted. The itanium I wasn't sure about. Certainly avoiding all the complexity of out of order and speculative execution and all that seems reasonable. Having the compiler do the scheduling on the other hand was not something I had ever heard of being done. I can't even imagine how a compiler would be able to do that in general (only in specific cases). But being not a compiler designer I figured intel/HP must have some idea what they were getting into. Well turns out they didn't know and apparently no one else seems to know how to make a compiler do it either. The powerpc chips from IBM have usually been very impressive when announced. They have so far been rather successful too. Too bad they cost so much and use so much power. They really are monster sized CPUs these days. I am very impressed by them. Now if only they were affordable enough to get one to actually use. The atom has not impressed me. Dropping out of order execution is a terrible idea on x86 instructions. It just kills performance. If you want an efficient low power CPU, forget x86 and go for arm or mips. They can get the same performance in 1/4 the power it seems, even though intel has more advanced manufacturing processes to play with. OK, I will shut up now and go back to doing real work again. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 6 15:40:27 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 11:40:27 -0400 Subject: in Toronto this month: International Symposium on Code Generation and Optimization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've added a link re: this event to the GTALug to the main page's "Upcoming events" section. Colin. On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 5:34 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > This is about compilers etc. > ? > > This is a conference for presenting research work. ?If you don't know > anything about the topics, the sessions won't make any sense. ?(Don't > infer that they will make sense if you do know something about the > topics.) > > After today, the registration fees go up. ?Sponsored by IEEE and ACM, > not for profit, and yet not cheap: US$550 for members. ?Tutorials and > worshops extra. > > I'm not finding many things in the program compelling. ?The tutorials and > workshops look more interesting. > > I didn't know of (open source from > VMWare) or (free but not open source; from > Intel). ?Both are instrumentation tools and each has a tutorial. > > The ODES workshop's focus is on Software Defined Radio. > > Transactional Memory may become important. ?There is a tutorial on that. > > EPIC (think: itanium) may eventually turn out to be important. ?The > workshop looks interesting. > > Too bad the Open64 workshop is cancelled. ?Open64 is an open source > compiler suite. ?I've never used it. ?Has anyone else? ?I think I heard > that Apple is switching to using it. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 6 16:24:57 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:24:57 -0400 Subject: Gnome-screensaver in Debian testing Message-ID: I've been having chronic problems with gnome-screensaver in Debian Testing. Debian bugs shows others with the same problem, but still no resolution as far as I can tell, after many months. The only suggestion, which most report doesn't solve the problem, is to use the package from Unstable. Only problem there is it would move all of X Org to unstable, and remove my nvidia-glx. I'd kinda rather just keep turning my display off manually until the bug is fixed. I'm just curious, though: anyone else being bit by this, and for as long? This seems so unlike all of my other experiences with Debian. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 6 19:02:38 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 15:02:38 -0400 Subject: Gnome-screensaver in Debian testing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100406190238.GF4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 12:24:57PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > I've been having chronic problems with gnome-screensaver in Debian > Testing. Debian bugs shows others with the same problem, but still no > resolution as far as I can tell, after many months. > > The only suggestion, which most report doesn't solve the problem, is > to use the package from Unstable. Only problem there is it would move > all of X Org to unstable, and remove my nvidia-glx. I'd kinda rather > just keep turning my display off manually until the bug is fixed. > > I'm just curious, though: anyone else being bit by this, and for as > long? This seems so unlike all of my other experiences with Debian. Why does nvidia-glx in unstable not work for you? Works for me. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 6 19:48:05 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 15:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: in Toronto this month: International Symposium on Code Generation and Optimization In-Reply-To: <20100406151436.GE4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100405223619.GD4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100406151436.GE4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | The itanium I wasn't sure about. Certainly avoiding all the complexity | of out of order and speculative execution and all that seems reasonable. | Having the compiler do the scheduling on the other hand was not something | I had ever heard of being done. I can't even imagine how a compiler | would be able to do that in general (only in specific cases). But being | not a compiler designer I figured intel/HP must have some idea what they | were getting into. Well turns out they didn't know and apparently no | one else seems to know how to make a compiler do it either. Optimizing compilers can do surprising things. VLIW compilation techniques were not completely new when the Itanium project was started. In fact, a number of the folks at Intel/HP were refugees from other projects like Multiflow and Cydrome. I first heard of VLIW technology from a headhunter (for Multiflow) about 25 years ago. I've worked on optimizing compilers but I'm not up to date on what they can do now. I do know that results on benchmarks are not that indicative of real-world performance. The really tough stuff (i.e. what I don't understand) is how to deal usefully with the memory hierarchy. Especially without programmer assistance. I recently read a paper about the evolution of the BLAS library and successors (Linear algebra kernels) to exploit high-performance system architecture changes over the last 30 years. Wow. And that is from the programmer's standpoint, not the compiler's. For a well-suited problem domain. Multiflow did produce machines that were effective crunchers for a point in time. They were overwhelmed by the attack of the killer micros. (I don't think that the P4 miss-step was caused by the Itanium. One significant bit of evidence: x86 always got new semiconductor fabrication processes well before Itanium (as far as I remember). Concern for the Itanium did appear to cause Intel to hold back on 64-bit extensions to x86.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 6 20:38:49 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 16:38:49 -0400 Subject: in Toronto this month: International Symposium on Code Generation and Optimization In-Reply-To: References: <20100405223619.GD4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100406151436.GE4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100406203849.GG4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 03:48:05PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Optimizing compilers can do surprising things. VLIW compilation > techniques were not completely new when the Itanium project was > started. In fact, a number of the folks at Intel/HP were refugees > from other projects like Multiflow and Cydrome. I first heard of VLIW > technology from a headhunter (for Multiflow) about 25 years ago. They weren't new, but on the other hand I don't get the impression they have gotten any further now than they had then. It very much looks like a dead end leading no where. The itanium to me was a gamble on a technology that was unknown and uncertain. All it really seems to have done is kill the alpha (not that DEC wasn't doing a good job at that themselves), kill HPPA (not sure anyone cares), kill high end MIPS (that was sad, although embedded use of MIPS is really taking off, and the chinese are making a 64bit very impressive looking MIPS, so maybe MIPS will come back from the dead after all), probably hurt sparc (not sure Sun wasn't doing that themselves to some extent. When was the last time a new sparc design was announced and actually got delivered?). Powercpc seems to be the only highend cpu to have survived other than x86. If any architecture was deserving of death, it was x86. Certainly not the alpha (although I still admit that's probably mostly DEC's fault). > I've worked on optimizing compilers but I'm not up to date on what > they can do now. I do know that results on benchmarks are not that > indicative of real-world performance. Certainly there are programs that can optimize well for the VLIW machines. It just seems most programs can't. I think I can see why IBM is going for more cores and more threads per core to take advantage of more execution units rather than considering anything VLIW. Not all powerpc's have been out of order execution though, so even IBM is hoping for compilers to schedule instructions in a good order without pipeline stalls happening too much, but they use multithreaded cores to try and fill those pipeline stalls with other code instead of assuming the compiler will be able to fill them with instructions from the same code. > The really tough stuff (i.e. what I don't understand) is how to deal > usefully with the memory hierarchy. Especially without programmer > assistance. > > I recently read a paper about the evolution of the BLAS library and > successors (Linear algebra kernels) to exploit high-performance system > architecture changes over the last 30 years. Wow. And that is from > the programmer's standpoint, not the compiler's. For a well-suited > problem domain. Well I was under the impression BLAS had cpu specific optimizations in many cases (including assembly code for some parts of the code). It is certainly very impressive work. > Multiflow did produce machines that were effective crunchers for a > point in time. They were overwhelmed by the attack of the killer > micros. > > (I don't think that the P4 miss-step was caused by the Itanium. One > significant bit of evidence: x86 always got new semiconductor > fabrication processes well before Itanium (as far as I remember). > Concern for the Itanium did appear to cause Intel to hold back on > 64-bit extensions to x86.) No the itanium certainly is not to blame for the P4. The P4 I think can mainly be blamed on marketing. Intel was highly into selling clock speed at the time (while AMD and others were starting to push instructions/clock instead). They thought they would be able to scale it to 10GHz, and I suppose if they had, it may have performed sufficiently well. Certainly for those clock speeds the long pipeline was a benefit. For stream processing (like video decoding), the P4 pipeline is quite good. Unfortunately it is awful at anything that isn't predictable (like video encoding, compression in general, etc). And to keep things on topic, you can run Linux on all of those architectures mentioned. Debian supports them all. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 6 23:24:42 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 19:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: in Toronto this month: International Symposium on Code Generation and Optimization In-Reply-To: <20100406203849.GG4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100405223619.GD4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100406151436.GE4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100406203849.GG4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | And to keep things on topic, you can run Linux on all of those | architectures mentioned. Debian supports them all. :) Unix was an important enabling technology for the development of RISC microprocessors. It meant that the people creating the micros didn't have to create an OS and attract users to a new OS. Linux continues this tradition -- UNIX gave up almost 20 years ago. Linux's second architecture was the Alpha if I remember correctly. There were a few other OSes on new architectures: - OpenVMS on Alpha - Apollo's Domain/OS on their PRISM - MS WinNT on MIPS The success rate seems low. But then few of the Unix-based ones are still around either. The worst things about x86 have been overcome: - the 32-bit instruction set is OK; the 64-bit one even better - the overhead for the mediocre instruction set is handled by throwing lots of cheap transistors at it. At one point those transistors could have been used for much better purposes. Now its just a tiny percent of the chip. - x86 has decent code density which is actually useful. We do really need to have some new ideas to break through the current set of barriers. Some way to use parallelism more effectively. All ways seem to involve pain. Several are specialized and we reject them because we're spoiled by how useful x86 is for so many applications. Example: the IBM/Sony Cell is a novel design that is really good for some applications. Most of us haven't bit so it will probably die. Example: Sun's Niagara looked good. Few took it up. It will probably die. Example: ARM or MIPS would make a useful notebook/netbook processor. The mass market seems to require MS Windows. So the ARM notebook won't be important. But the iPad is a disguised ARM notebook. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 6 23:26:30 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 19:26:30 -0400 Subject: Gnome-screensaver in Debian testing In-Reply-To: <20100406190238.GF4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100406190238.GF4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 12:24:57PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: >> I've been having chronic problems with gnome-screensaver in Debian >> Testing. Debian bugs shows others with the same problem, but still no >> resolution as far as I can tell, after many months. >> >> The only suggestion, which most report doesn't solve the problem, is >> to use the package from Unstable. Only problem there is it would move >> all of X Org to unstable, and remove my nvidia-glx. I'd kinda rather >> just keep turning my display off manually until the bug is fixed. >> >> I'm just curious, though: anyone else being bit by this, and for as >> long? This seems so unlike all of my other experiences with Debian. > > Why does nvidia-glx in unstable not work for you? ?Works for me. > All I'm sayin' is, if I want to upgrade gnome-screensaver, it would mean upgrading _everything_, including nvidia-glx. Seems a little extreme when I can just press the power button. :) -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 7 03:00:13 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 23:00:13 -0400 Subject: Any experiences with ATSC TV tuner cards? Message-ID: <20100407030012.GA19713@waltdnes.org> Long story short... I want/need the most sensitive ATSC tuner available for recording TV off the air, without the price getting ridiculous.. I currently have a Windows XP based USB external unit. It's getting quite old, as is XP. I'd prefer something linux-based (obviously). I can go with either standalone or a USB or PCI card and simple software. I do *NOT* want TIVO or MYTH. I should't need no steenkin SQL database just to record an afternoon movie at home while I'm away at work. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 7 05:36:47 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 01:36:47 -0400 Subject: Any experiences with ATSC TV tuner cards? In-Reply-To: <20100407030012.GA19713-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100407030012.GA19713@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > ?Long story short... I want/need the most sensitive ATSC tuner > available for recording TV off the air, without the price getting > ridiculous.. ?I currently have a Windows XP based USB external unit. > It's getting quite old, as is XP. > > ?I'd prefer something linux-based (obviously). ?I can go with either > standalone or a USB or PCI card and simple software. ?I do *NOT* want > TIVO or MYTH. ?I should't need no steenkin SQL database just to record > an afternoon movie at home while I'm away at work. Shrug, almost all of my Linux / TV experience has been with MythTV. Still, I have used the following ATSC digital TV tuner PCI cards with Linux (and MythTV): - Hauppauge HVR-1600 - http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr1600.html - pcHDTV HD-5500 - http://www.pchdtv.com/ I am somewhat partial to the pcHDTV HD-5500 card as Linux is a manufacturer supported OS and Microsoft Windows isn't (I repeat, isn't) a manufacturer supported OS... The pcHDTV HD-5500 tuner I got was reasonably sensitive to local ATSC digital TV stations, but I have heard of some HD-5500's that weren't very sensitive... A non-PCI card (read PCI-Express) ATSC tuner card I've tried, and liked is the: - Hauppauge HVR-1250 - http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr1250.html While I have not tried it, the MythTV community give good reviews to the Silicon Dust HDHomeRun - http://www.silicondust.com/ an external ATSC digital TV tuner to Ethernet box... Expect to pay $60 for the HVR-1250 new, the least expensive of the above options (and has known driver issues with NTSC TV under Linux...). Several months ago one of the "usual suspects" (read College/Spadina crowd) was selling the HVR-1600 as a used pull for $40. The HVR-1600 comes with two built-in tuners (though one of the two tuners can only do NTSC analog TV) and can tune two different TV channels at the same time... The HDHomeRun is available in both single and dual tuner versions. A restriction of the HDHomeRun is that it can NOT do NTSC analog TV. Colin McGregor > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 7 12:07:09 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 08:07:09 -0400 Subject: Any experiences with ATSC TV tuner cards? In-Reply-To: References: <20100407030012.GA19713@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100407120709.GA26884@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 01:36:47AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote > The HDHomeRun is available in both single and dual tuner versions. A > restriction of the HDHomeRun is that it can NOT do NTSC analog TV. Not an issue. Even now, the only Toronto station *NOT* broadcasting in digital is TVO 19. They plan to delay the switchover till the last minute, August 31, 2011. All the other Toronto stations are broadcasting both modes, and the Buffalo stations are digital-only. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 7 12:44:04 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 08:44:04 -0400 Subject: Any experiences with ATSC TV tuner cards? In-Reply-To: <20100407120709.GA26884-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100407030012.GA19713@waltdnes.org> <20100407120709.GA26884@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 01:36:47AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote > >> The HDHomeRun is available in both single and dual tuner versions. A >> restriction of the HDHomeRun is that it can NOT do NTSC analog TV. > > ?Not an issue. ?Even now, the only Toronto station *NOT* broadcasting > in digital is TVO 19. ?They plan to delay the switchover till the last > minute, August 31, 2011. ?All the other Toronto stations are > broadcasting both modes, and the Buffalo stations are digital-only. Not quite true. Channel 15 (WBNF-CA) is a low powered analog only religious TV station operating out of Buffalo, NY. I have received WBNF-CA, always with more snow than signal, but it can be received in Toronto. While not getting WBNF-CA would not be an issue for me (why get upset over something I would never get well), the lack of TVO and the inability to connect older analog only equipment to my Linux box would be an issue... I have been helping to maintain the GTALug MythTV web page: http://gtalug.org/wiki/MythTV Some of the hardware bits and external links could be of interest to you... Colin A McGregor colin-+7+y8uhm9Opg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 7 13:54:56 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:54:56 -0400 Subject: Gnome-screensaver in Debian testing In-Reply-To: References: <20100406190238.GF4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100407135456.GH4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 07:26:30PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > All I'm sayin' is, if I want to upgrade gnome-screensaver, it would > mean upgrading _everything_, including nvidia-glx. Seems a little > extreme when I can just press the power button. :) Certainly true. There is always xscreensaver too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 7 14:05:19 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 10:05:19 -0400 Subject: in Toronto this month: International Symposium on Code Generation and Optimization In-Reply-To: References: <20100405223619.GD4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100406151436.GE4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100406203849.GG4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100407140519.GI4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 07:24:42PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Unix was an important enabling technology for the development of RISC > microprocessors. It meant that the people creating the micros didn't > have to create an OS and attract users to a new OS. > > Linux continues this tradition -- UNIX gave up almost 20 years ago. > > Linux's second architecture was the Alpha if I remember correctly. Yes it was. We can thank DEC for doing a lot of the cleanup to make linux portable. > There were a few other OSes on new architectures: > > - OpenVMS on Alpha > > - Apollo's Domain/OS on their PRISM I never was Apollo on anything other than m68k. Hmm. > - MS WinNT on MIPS Well NT ran on MIPS, powerpc, x86 and alpha. > The success rate seems low. But then few of the Unix-based ones are > still around either. > > The worst things about x86 have been overcome: > > - the 32-bit instruction set is OK; the 64-bit one even better The 64bit is better. The 32bit is not OK. It's awful. > - the overhead for the mediocre instruction set is handled by throwing > lots of cheap transistors at it. At one point those transistors > could have been used for much better purposes. Now its just a tiny > percent of the chip. Yet every modern x86 doesn't execute x86 natively. They all translate. Perhaps that's a good indication that it would be better to write code for the actual CPU rather than a legacy instruction set the CPU doesn't even like. > - x86 has decent code density which is actually useful. RAM is cheap. It really isn't a bit deal anymore. ARM and powerpc are not that bad. > We do really need to have some new ideas to break through the current > set of barriers. Some way to use parallelism more effectively. All > ways seem to involve pain. Several are specialized and we reject them > because we're spoiled by how useful x86 is for so many applications. Certainly writing parallel code is the big issue. The instruction set has nothing to do with that for the most part. > Example: the IBM/Sony Cell is a novel design that is really good for > some applications. Most of us haven't bit so it will probably die. IBM seems to have killed it. Future powerpc designs will apparently have SPE style cores in them though. > Example: Sun's Niagara looked good. Few took it up. It will probably > die. Well it seems Sun too forever to finish it (lots of delays). Eventually it becomes irrelevant. > Example: ARM or MIPS would make a useful notebook/netbook processor. > The mass market seems to require MS Windows. So the ARM notebook > won't be important. But the iPad is a disguised ARM notebook. Well the chinese mips processor coming out this year is supposed to be able to run x86 code translated by qemu at about 80% of native performance. Perhaps that will do. I don't consider the ipad a computer. A computer runs what I want it to run. The ipad does not, so it is not a computer. It's an appliance. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 7 18:14:43 2010 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 11:14:43 -0700 Subject: Windows AV management from Linux Message-ID: Does anyone know of any products that do this well and are affordable? We were looking at AVG but the current "server" components don't seem to have a Linux version yet (though the older versions exist, they don't mesh with the documentation). Having something where our windows AV's can update from our Linux servers would be nice. An active/realtime component is needed so that rules out CLAM etc. Thanks - TJA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 7 20:57:25 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 16:57:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: does email officially identify carrier-added crap? Message-ID: since i normally torture my local (KW)LUG with questions, i figured i'd entertain TLUG this time. is there an official standard that dictates how email senders/carriers must identify the self-promotional rubbish they add to messages? as in, "this message sent from my blackberry" -- annoying nonsense like that. do any standards for email or MIME require that such additional verbiage be clearly identifiable? thanks. rday - ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 7 21:14:40 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 17:14:40 -0400 Subject: Qubes OS Message-ID: I know nothing about this beyond the article. http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/open-source-security-focused-qubes-os-hits-alpha-2010047/ -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 7 21:32:14 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 17:32:14 -0400 Subject: Qubes OS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 17:14, Giles Orr wrote: > I know nothing about this beyond the article. > > http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/open-source-security-focused-qubes-os-hits-alpha-2010047/ > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org I found out about this earlier today, at the following URL: http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/researcher-releases-qubes-hardened-os-040710 -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 7 22:38:57 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 18:38:57 -0400 Subject: does email officially identify carrier-added crap? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100407223857.GJ4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 04:57:25PM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > since i normally torture my local (KW)LUG with questions, i figured > i'd entertain TLUG this time. > > is there an official standard that dictates how email > senders/carriers must identify the self-promotional rubbish they add > to messages? as in, "this message sent from my blackberry" -- > annoying nonsense like that. > > do any standards for email or MIME require that such additional > verbiage be clearly identifiable? thanks. I don't know if that had been imagined. I do know what signatures are apparently supposed to use two dashes and a space, then the signature on the next line. You apparently don't. :) > rday > - > > ======================================================================== > Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA > > Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. > > Web page: http://crashcourse.ca > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday > ======================================================================== > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists The TLUG trailer does almost (it only appears to use two dashes. Of course it isn't a signature either. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 8 10:27:38 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 06:27:38 -0400 Subject: backup software to do remote backup of windoze, linux, os x clients Message-ID: I'm looking at bacula or amanda, any suggestions. Actually more now at bacula Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 8 15:30:50 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 11:30:50 -0400 Subject: backup software to do remote backup of windoze, linux, os x clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100408153050.GK4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 08, 2010 at 06:27:38AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'm looking at bacula or amanda, any suggestions. > > Actually more now at bacula Bacula does look interesting. I will have to look more at that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 8 16:26:21 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 12:26:21 -0400 Subject: backup software to do remote backup of windoze, linux, os x clients In-Reply-To: <20100408153050.GK4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100408153050.GK4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 08, 2010 at 06:27:38AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >> I'm looking at bacula or amanda, any suggestions. >> >> Actually more now at bacula > > Bacula does look interesting. ?I will have to look more at that. > I've got it running and it does more or less what I want. The one challenge is that the director needs to know the ip of the remote client. At this point the only way that is feasible is if I use openvpn (or some other vpn) Other than that I have my OS X machine backing up to my linux box ... sweet. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 9 18:53:04 2010 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:53:04 -0400 Subject: torfree.net refusing ftp connections Message-ID: <1270839184.6480.4.camel@cougar-hardy> Greetings, It has happened for the last couple of weeks that my attempts to ftp torfree.net have been rebuffed with message "ftp: connect: Connection refused". My queries to userhelp-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org have gone unanswered. Do you have any suggestions for me? Thanks, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 9 18:56:59 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 14:56:59 -0400 Subject: torfree.net refusing ftp connections In-Reply-To: <1270839184.6480.4.camel@cougar-hardy> References: <1270839184.6480.4.camel@cougar-hardy> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Terrence Enger wrote: > Greetings, > > It has happened for the last couple of weeks that my attempts to ftp > torfree.net have been rebuffed with message "ftp: connect: Connection > refused". ?My queries to userhelp-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org have gone unanswered. > Do you have any suggestions for me? Yes, have a word with Toronto Free-Net President Iain Calder. If he can't help you, nobody can... Colin McGregor > Thanks, > Terry. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 9 20:48:06 2010 From: slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 22:48:06 +0200 Subject: torfree.net refusing ftp connections In-Reply-To: <1270839184.6480.4.camel@cougar-hardy> (Terrence Enger's message of "Fri\, 09 Apr 2010 14\:53\:04 -0400") References: <1270839184.6480.4.camel@cougar-hardy> Message-ID: <8763401hfd.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Terrence Enger a ?crit profondement: | Greetings, | | It has happened for the last couple of weeks that my attempts to ftp | torfree.net have been rebuffed with message "ftp: connect: Connection | refused". My queries to userhelp-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org have gone unanswered. | Do you have any suggestions for me? | | Thanks, | Terry. Maybe they're closing some of the doors they left open when they dumped that hierarchical OS and closed a few that should have been left open ;) Telnet still works just fine though: -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 10 00:16:20 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 20:16:20 -0400 Subject: A politician who "got" copyright law... Message-ID: I ran across this speech by a UK member of parliament. Thomas Babington Macaulay, when the question of extending of extending copyright came up. Here we have a speech were the MP CLEARLY understands the trade-off between the need for copyright to encourage writers, and the REQUIREMENT for reasonably short time limits on copyright for the good of society as a whole. Great stuff, the bad news here is two fold, the speech was given in 1841 (yes, 1841), and with that comes the style of 19th century public speeches... Still, worth the effort to read: http://www.baen.com/library/palaver4.htm Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 10 10:41:29 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 06:41:29 -0400 Subject: wlan0 config questions Message-ID: <20100410104129.GA6337@waltdnes.org> Here's /etc/conf.d/net on my Gentoo system... config_eth0="192.168.123.249 broadcast 192.168.123.255 netmask 255.255.255.248 mtu 1452" routes_eth0=( "default via 192.168.123.254 metric 2" "192.168.123.248/29 via 192.168.123.254 metric 0" ) The multiple routes allow eth0 to remain connected to my router and talk to the other machine on the lan while running a dialup connection. I want to try out my netbook wifi, and I find that it works too well!!! Here's the output after starting up wlan0. The ESSID and MAC address have been masked to protect the innocent... aa1 init.d # /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 restart * Stopping wlan0 * Bringing down wlan0 * Stopping dhcpcd on wlan0 ... [ ok ] * Shutting down wlan0 ... [ ok ] * Starting wlan0 * Configuring wireless network for wlan0 * WEP key is not set for "KGB zone** keep OFF**" - not connecting * wlan0 connected to ESSID "***************" at **:**:**:**:**:** * in managed mode on channel 6 (WEP disabled) * Configuration not set for wlan0 - assuming DHCP * Bringing up wlan0 * dhcp * Running dhcpcd ... wlan0: dhcpcd 4.0.15 starting wlan0: broadcasting for a lease wlan0: offered 192.168.0.103 from 192.168.0.1 wlan0: ignoring offer of 192.168.0.103 from 192.168.0.1 wlan0: acknowledged 192.168.0.103 from 192.168.0.1 wlan0: checking 192.168.0.103 is available on attached networks wlan0: leased 192.168.0.103 for 604800 seconds [ ok ] * wlan0 received address 192.168.0.103/24 After picking my jaw off the floor, I downed wlan0. Just to be safe, I ran "rmmod ath5k". I want to be able to scan available connections and then select which one I want, e.g. I want to try it at the Toronto Public Library. I do not like the concept of the netbook automatically connecting to the first available access point. What do I have to do to *NOT* connect automatically? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 11 18:43:21 2010 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:43:21 -0400 Subject: Ununseptium - New kid on the periodic table Message-ID: Hi, For those with a lot if chemistry background, its time to update what we know about periodic table, as a new element was recently added. More info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ununseptium William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 11 19:22:56 2010 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 23:22:56 +0400 Subject: Ununseptium - New kid on the periodic table In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BC22190.8060300@gmail.com> "Theoretical calculations in a quantum tunneling model with mass estimates from a macroscopic-microscopic model predict the alpha-decay half-lives of isotopes of the element 117 to be around 0.1?40 ms" Where are you going to use it? zb. William Muriithi wrote: > Hi, > > > For those with a lot if chemistry background, its time to update what > we know about periodic table, as a new element was recently added. > More info here > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ununseptium > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 11 20:01:47 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 16:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ununseptium - New kid on the periodic table In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Apr 2010, William Muriithi wrote: > For those with a lot if chemistry background, its time to update what > we know about periodic table, as a new element was recently added. > More info here > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ununseptium I'm hoping we'll find an "island of stability" among heavier elements (as has been theorised). If that does occur it may open up new possibilities for chemistry. Similarly if strange matter were found to be stable under some circumstances the possibilities would be staggering. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org IRC: Solver Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 04:55:47 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hackathon for Sage, an open source symbolic math system Message-ID: Sage Days will be a 5-day intensive workshop to develop and implement algorithms for research in algebraic combinatorics and the representation theory of finite dimensional algebras. All software developed during the workshop will be made freely available, together with the source code, as part of the free and open-source mathematics software system Sage (http://www.sagemath.org). Any sufficiently novel algorithms developed during the workshop will be submitted for publication. Cost: $50 which includes meeting materials and coffee breaks. Intriguing but it appears a bit hardcore for me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 11:22:05 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:22:05 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [u-u] Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 14 Apr 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Unix Unanimous Webmaster Date: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:01 AM Subject: [u-u] Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 14 Apr 2010 To: u-u-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org The next meeting of Unix Unanimous will be held at 6:45 pm on Wednesday 14 April 2010, in room BA 2179 on the 2nd floor of the the Bahen Centre for Information Technology at 40 St. George Street, on the University of Toronto campus. Unix Unanimous is an informal gathering of people interested in Unix and related topics. There are no fees or membership requirements, and the meeting is open to all. Participants typically include Unix professionals, students, and hobbyists. This message will be repeated on the Monday before the meeting. If there are any items for the agenda, email u-u-owner-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org before then. The meeting is always held on the second Wednesday of each month. Special Announcements: A mailing list has been set up for this announcement. If you wish to receive notification via email, go to the web page https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u/ in order to subscribe yourself. A map of the area can be found at http://unixunanimous.org where this message is repeated, and will always contain the correct location and time of the next meeting. _______________________________________________ u-u mailing list u-u-sb41XHKw7bdvuSlQZN9BUtrUbErFZevf at public.gmane.org https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 14:54:44 2010 From: ivan.avery.frey-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:54:44 -0400 Subject: OT: Ad Bard Network Message-ID: <4BC33434.2010908@gmail.com> I think this could be interesting. http://adbard.net/join -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 15:34:25 2010 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 12:34:25 -0300 Subject: OT: Ad Bard Network In-Reply-To: <4BC33434.2010908-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BC33434.2010908@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah. It's a good solution. Different from Goodle Adsense. Only advers from Open Source solutions. Free Software Foundation is also making good recommendations about this service. In Arch Linux Brasil, we used to have Google Adsense in our sites but at this momment we are moving it to ad bard. cheers, --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > I think this could be interesting. > > http://adbard.net/join > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 16:29:08 2010 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 12:29:08 -0400 Subject: rm argument list too long find and xargs Message-ID: <4BC34A54.6030105@tmis.ca> I was trying to rm more than 1024 files at one time (old logs) and rm returned a strange error. "Argument list too long" so find and xargs to the rescue.. find . -name 'myDEBUG*.log' | xargs rm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xargs uname -a shows a kernel less than 2.6.23 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 16:37:30 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 12:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: rm argument list too long find and xargs In-Reply-To: <4BC34A54.6030105-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4BC34A54.6030105@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, teddymills wrote: > > I was trying to rm more than 1024 files at one time (old logs) > and rm returned a strange error. "Argument list too long" > > so find and xargs to the rescue.. > find . -name 'myDEBUG*.log' | xargs rm There is no need for xargs with recent versions of find: find . -name 'myDEBUG*.log' -exec rm {} + > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xargs > uname -a shows a kernel less than 2.6.23 -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 17:58:52 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:58:52 -0400 Subject: rm argument list too long find and xargs In-Reply-To: <4BC34A54.6030105-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4BC34A54.6030105@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:29 PM, teddymills wrote: > > I was trying to rm more than 1024 files at one time (old logs) > and rm returned a strange error. "Argument list too long" > > so find and xargs to the rescue.. > find . -name 'myDEBUG*.log' | xargs rm > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xargs > uname -a shows a kernel less than 2.6.23 This isn't normally a kernel issue - it is normally an issue of how your shell handles "globbing" / argument expansion. It's quite common for shells to restrict the size of arguments to something "not arbitrarily large." It might be based on the size of a memory buffer, so that long filenames would consume more space than short ones. In any case, the usual solutions involve running the command in some way that doesn't force this to be expanded by the shell. Usually this involves: 1. Finding filenames using find, as that generates a list of files to stdout, which is not restricted in size. 2. Then, you need to invoke "rm" against each file, in some fashion. There are generally two methods: a) find -name "pattern" | xargs rm xargs is used to grab portions of a stream, and repeatedly invoke rm against those portions. This means that rm is only spawned a few times, running against a list of several files. b) You could have find expressly execute rm against each file find -name "pattern" -exec rm '{}' \; This spawns rm a bunch more times, because it does so for each file. That might be worthwhile, mind you... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 18:03:38 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:03:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: rm argument list too long find and xargs In-Reply-To: References: <4BC34A54.6030105@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:29 PM, teddymills wrote: > > > > I was trying to rm more than 1024 files at one time (old logs) > > and rm returned a strange error. "Argument list too long" > > > > so find and xargs to the rescue.. > > find . -name 'myDEBUG*.log' | xargs rm > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xargs > > uname -a shows a kernel less than 2.6.23 > > This isn't normally a kernel issue - it is normally an issue of how > your shell handles "globbing" / argument expansion. No, it is a kernel issue. > It's quite common for shells to restrict the size of arguments to > something "not arbitrarily large." It might be based on the size of a > memory buffer, so that long filenames would consume more space than > short ones. The shell is normally limited only by available memory. You can see this by applying the same number of arguments to a builtin command and an external command. > In any case, the usual solutions involve running the command in some > way that doesn't force this to be expanded by the shell. > > Usually this involves: > > 1. Finding filenames using find, as that generates a list of files to > stdout, which is not restricted in size. > > 2. Then, you need to invoke "rm" against each file, in some fashion. > > There are generally two methods: > > a) find -name "pattern" | xargs rm > > xargs is used to grab portions of a stream, and repeatedly invoke rm > against those portions. This means that rm is only spawned a few > times, running against a list of several files. > > b) You could have find expressly execute rm against each file > > find -name "pattern" -exec rm '{}' \; > > This spawns rm a bunch more times, because it does so for each file. > That might be worthwhile, mind you... Using + instead of \; tells find's -exec to behave in the same way as xargs: find -name "pattern" -exec rm {} + -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 18:30:35 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:30:35 -0400 Subject: Ununseptium - New kid on the periodic table In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100412183035.GL4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 02:43:21PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > For those with a lot if chemistry background, its time to update what > we know about periodic table, as a new element was recently added. > More info here > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ununseptium What boring names. 1-1-7-ium. How creative. Of course given these things they are managing to create only seem to stick around for tiny fractions of a second, I guess it isn't worth spending much time naming. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 18:42:26 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ununseptium - New kid on the periodic table In-Reply-To: <20100412183035.GL4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100412183035.GL4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 02:43:21PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > > For those with a lot if chemistry background, its time to update what > > we know about periodic table, as a new element was recently added. > > More info here > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ununseptium > > What boring names. 1-1-7-ium. How creative. The name is a placeholder, and the element will/should be renamed. > Of course given these things they are managing to create only seem to > stick around for tiny fractions of a second, I guess it isn't worth > spending much time naming. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 18:47:18 2010 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:47:18 -0400 Subject: Ununseptium - New kid on the periodic table In-Reply-To: <20100412183035.GL4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100412183035.GL4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Monday 12 April 2010 14:30:35 you wrote: > On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 02:43:21PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > > For those with a lot if chemistry background, its time to update what > > we know about periodic table, as a new element was recently added. > > More info here > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ununseptium > > What boring names. 1-1-7-ium. How creative. > > Of course given these things they are managing to create only seem to > stick around for tiny fractions of a second, I guess it isn't worth > spending much time naming. > I suppose if we want to, we can always call it "scoobydoobiedooium". ^_^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 18:57:31 2010 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:57:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ununseptium - New kid on the periodic table In-Reply-To: <20100412183035.GL4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100412183035.GL4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <22303.99.253.254.243.1271098651.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > What boring names. 1-1-7-ium. How creative. > Unlike the evocatively named 'Administratium': http://www.lhup.edu/~DSIMANEK/administ.htm -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 18:58:48 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:58:48 -0400 Subject: rm argument list too long find and xargs In-Reply-To: <4BC34A54.6030105-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4BC34A54.6030105@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:29 PM, teddymills wrote: > > I was trying to rm more than 1024 files at one time (old logs) > and rm returned a strange error. "Argument list too long" > > so find and xargs to the rescue.. > find . -name 'myDEBUG*.log' | xargs rm > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xargs > uname -a shows a kernel less than 2.6.23 Chris Johnson and Chris Browne have offered nice, neat, even elegant solutions that should be great... Let me offer the sledgehammer solution... Ugly, but it works :-) . Create a little script called say script : ------------------------------------------- #! /bin/bash echo "# /bin/bash" > script2 find . -name 'myDEBUG*.log' | awk '{ print("rm " $1) }' >> script2 chmod 700 script2 ./script2 -------------------------------------------- Okay, so I am a sucker for programs that write other programs, even in this trivial example :-) . Removing a bunch of old log files is a problem that may need doing, but is normally something that needs doing so infrequently that it doesn't need to be done well. In other words, better to do a quick, easy to come up with, ugly solution rather than spend a lot of time finding the most elegant solution :-) . Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 19:13:33 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:13:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: rm argument list too long find and xargsy In-Reply-To: References: <4BC34A54.6030105@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:29 PM, teddymills wrote: > > > > I was trying to rm more than 1024 files at one time (old logs) > > and rm returned a strange error. "Argument list too long" > > > > so find and xargs to the rescue.. > > find . -name 'myDEBUG*.log' | xargs rm > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xargs > > uname -a shows a kernel less than 2.6.23 > > Chris Johnson and Chris Browne have offered nice, neat, even elegant > solutions that should be great... Let me offer the sledgehammer > solution... Ugly, but it works :-) . Create a little script called say > script : > > ------------------------------------------- > > #! /bin/bash These days you're unlikely to find it a problem, but on some systems the shebang will not be effective if there is a space after #! > echo "# /bin/bash" > script2 Missing ! > find . -name 'myDEBUG*.log' | awk '{ print("rm " $1) }' >> script2 That will also try to remove directories, and will fail if any filenames contain whitespace (propably only theoretical problems, but it never hurts to be safe); quote the filename and limit it to files: find . -type f -name 'myDEBUG*.log' | awk '{ print "rm \"" $1 "\"" }' >> script2 Or include directories in the rm command: find . -name 'myDEBUG*.log' | awk '{ print "rm -rf \"" $1 "\"" }' >> script2 Or do it without creating a new script: find . -name 'myDEBUG*.log' | awk '{ print "rm -rf \"" $1 "\"" }' | sh > chmod 700 script2 > > ./script2 > > -------------------------------------------- > > Okay, so I am a sucker for programs that write other programs, even in > this trivial example :-) . Removing a bunch of old log files is a > problem that may need doing, but is normally something that needs > doing so infrequently that it doesn't need to be done well. In other > words, better to do a quick, easy to come up with, ugly solution > rather than spend a lot of time finding the most elegant solution :-) But it does need to be done correctly, and it should be done robustly! -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From anton-P5WJPa9AKEc1GQ1Ptb7lUw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 12 20:09:40 2010 From: anton-P5WJPa9AKEc1GQ1Ptb7lUw at public.gmane.org (Anton Verevkin) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 20:09:40 +0000 Subject: wlan0 config questions In-Reply-To: <20100410104129.GA6337-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100410104129.GA6337@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <3993d67ef1048149d7a7f5d72ca0054c@veriksrv> "Walter Dnes" wrote: > Here's /etc/conf.d/net on my Gentoo system... > ... > After picking my jaw off the floor, I downed wlan0. Just to be safe, > I ran "rmmod ath5k". I want to be able to scan available connections > and then select which one I want, e.g. I want to try it at the Toronto > Public Library. I do not like the concept of the netbook automatically > connecting to the first available access point. What do I have to do to > *NOT* connect automatically? Add config_wlan0=( null ) to your /etc/conf.d/net file. This will disable dhcp on the interface. And even if wifi would connect to some network (I bet it wouldn't, but I am not sure), anyways, your interface would not get any IP and will stay safe until you manually configure it. -- Best regards, Anton Verevkin anton-P5WJPa9AKEc1GQ1Ptb7lUw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 13 00:58:20 2010 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 20:58:20 -0400 Subject: rm argument list too long find and xargs In-Reply-To: References: <4BC34A54.6030105@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20100413005820.GA29632@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 02:03:38PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, Christopher Browne wrote: > > > On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:29 PM, teddymills wrote: > > > > > > I was trying to rm more than 1024 files at one time (old logs) > > > and rm returned a strange error. "Argument list too long" > > > > > > so find and xargs to the rescue.. > > > find . -name 'myDEBUG*.log' | xargs rm > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xargs > > > uname -a shows a kernel less than 2.6.23 > > > > This isn't normally a kernel issue - it is normally an issue of how > > your shell handles "globbing" / argument expansion. > > No, it is a kernel issue. Hmm.. I thought this is libc issue. Who gives "argc" and "argv" to a program? Is it the kernel? -- William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 13 04:27:26 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 00:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: rm argument list too long find and xargs In-Reply-To: References: <4BC34A54.6030105@tmis.ca> Message-ID: | From: Chris F.A. Johnson | On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, Christopher Browne wrote: | | > | No, it is a kernel issue. See execve(2). See the section "Limits on size of arguments and environment". Only in recent versions of that manpage. It says that kernels prior to 2.6.23 the memory requirement for args + environment variables must be less than or equal to 32 pages. Pages might be 4KiB For 2.6.23 and later the limit is probably 1/4 the limit on stack size. | > a) find -name "pattern" | xargs rm As CFAJ said in another message later in this thread, one should always keep in mind that filenames might contain "magic" characters like space and write scripts that handle this case. And xargs is stupid about handling empty lists unless you tell it to be smart. find -name "pattern" -print0 | xargs --null --no-run-if-empty rm | Using + instead of \; tells find's -exec to behave in the same way as | xargs: | | find -name "pattern" -exec rm {} + Wow. I didn't know that. Should have been done years ago. But the syntax is really stupid. That makes three reserved words: {}, +, and ;. Bad bad design. As I read the description, the mandatory {} must be followed immediately by the + and that the + terminates the arguments to the flag. So this would not be legal: find -name "pattern" -exec echo rm {} silly + Better would have been to use a new flag. Say -xargs (very suggestive)! find -name "pattern" -xargs rm {} \; Bonus rule 1: if no {} is found, act as if one were found at the end. Bonus rule 2: if no \; is found, act as if one were found at the end. Then this would work. Isn't it nice? find -name "pattern" -xargs rm Both those bonus rules could and should apply to -exec too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 13 04:38:08 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 00:38:08 -0400 Subject: wlan0 config questions In-Reply-To: <3993d67ef1048149d7a7f5d72ca0054c@veriksrv> References: <20100410104129.GA6337@waltdnes.org> <3993d67ef1048149d7a7f5d72ca0054c@veriksrv> Message-ID: <20100413043808.GA17932@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 08:09:40PM +0000, Anton Verevkin wrote > Add > config_wlan0=( null ) > to your /etc/conf.d/net file. This will disable dhcp on the > interface. And even if wifi would connect to some network (I bet it > wouldn't, but I am not sure), anyways, your interface would not get > any IP and will stay safe until you manually configure it. Thanks. that keeps things sane. Now let's start with simple stuff first, manually connecting to an open access point at the public library. Listed below are files /etc/conf.d/net, ~/bin/wi_open, and /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf.open. Assuming that I have /etc/sudoers properly set up, is ~/bin/wi_open the correct incantation? It copies the appropriate config to /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf and then starts and connects wifi. I plan to have multiple config files, to cover different situations. /etc/conf.d/net =============== config_eth0="192.168.123.249 broadcast 192.168.123.255 netmask 255.255.255.248 mtu 1452" routes_eth0=( "default via 192.168.123.254 metric 2" "192.168.123.248/29 via 192.168.123.254 metric 0" ) modules=( "wpa_supplicant" ) config_wlan0=( "null" ) wpa_supplicant_wlan0="-Dwext" wpa_timeout_wlan0=15 ~/bin/wi_open ============== #!/bin/bash sudo /bin/cp /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf.open /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf sudo /sbin/modprobe ath5k sudo /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 restart sudo /sbin/ifconfig wlan0 up sudo /sbin/iwconfig wlan0 essid any channel auto sudo /usr/sbin/wpa_supplicant -iwlan0 sudo /sbin/dhcpcd -C resolv.conf -C mtu wlan0 /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf.open ============================= # Connect to an open AP network={ ssid="public library" key_mgmt=NONE priority=9 } network={ key_mgmt=NONE priority=-9 } -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 13 10:58:21 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 06:58:21 -0400 Subject: Ununseptium - New kid on the periodic table In-Reply-To: References: <20100412183035.GL4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BC44E4D.2000208@rogers.com> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >> On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 02:43:21PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: >> >>> For those with a lot if chemistry background, its time to update what >>> we know about periodic table, as a new element was recently added. >>> More info here >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ununseptium >>> >> What boring names. 1-1-7-ium. How creative. >> > The name is a placeholder, and the element will/should be renamed. > > Considering its density, perhaps it could be called "Dubya". ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 13 14:04:57 2010 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 10:04:57 -0400 Subject: Ununseptium - New kid on the periodic table In-Reply-To: <4BC44E4D.2000208-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100412183035.GL4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BC44E4D.2000208@rogers.com> Message-ID: Hey, that's unfair considering how difficult it would be to measure the density of Dubya. -j On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 6:58 AM, James Knott wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> >> On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 02:43:21PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> For those with a lot if chemistry background, its time to update what >>>> we know about periodic table, as a new element was recently added. >>>> More info here >>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ununseptium >>>> >>> >>> What boring names. ?1-1-7-ium. ?How creative. >>> >> >> ? ? ?The name is a placeholder, and the element will/should be renamed. >> >> > > Considering its density, perhaps it could be called "Dubya". ?;-) > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 13 14:38:04 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 10:38:04 -0400 Subject: Free stuff... Message-ID: I hope and trust that everyone will come out to tonight's GTALug meeting for what should be an interesting talk about the Plone content management system. In case anyone is sitting on the fence about coming though, I will have some free stuff to give away, including some copies of the May 2010 "Linux Journal", and a few other goodies... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 13 16:39:51 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 12:39:51 -0400 Subject: Unpatched Tuesdays at Hacklab.to Message-ID: <4BC49E57.3060702@alteeve.com> Hey [GT]LUG'ers! For those who don't know yet, we've got an awesome little shared geek space here in Toronto called Hacklab (http://hacklab.to/). Every Tuesday it opens up to non members so that anyone interested can stop in and check it out. I'm one of the most recent members, and I have to say it's probably my favourite spot in the city. The vibe there is unmatched. So, if you've got a project you've been hacking on or thinking about, or if you're simply curious, why not stop by this evening? I'll be there from about 6pm, and I am sure others will be there even sooner. The only requirement is that you have your geek on. :) From the website: *Unpatched Tuesdays* *When*: Tue, Apr 13, 2010 5:00 PM - Tue, Apr 13, 2010 11:00 PM *Where*: HackLabTO, 170a Baldwin St. Unpatched Tuesdays are open house nights at the HackLab. Come by, introduce yourself, bring a cool project or come willing to help out. No experience required; no minimum leetness level demanded. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 13 16:48:18 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 12:48:18 -0400 Subject: Other user groups. Message-ID: I've spent a few minutes today cleaning up GTALug's list of other user groups: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Toronto_opensource_computing_groups Usual stuff, removal of dead links, etc. Now, some questions: Does anyone know what has happened to the following groups: - Greater Toronto Area Radio and Electronics Club - Toronto PHP Users Group - Toronto WiFi Meetup - Hamilton Open Source User Group - Is the Toronto Atari Federation still active? Their website does not appear to have been updated since the year 2000. - What groups are not on the above list and should be? Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 13 17:35:05 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Unpatched Tuesdays at Hacklab.to In-Reply-To: <4BC49E57.3060702-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4BC49E57.3060702@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Apr 2010, Digimer wrote: > So, if you've got a project you've been hacking on or thinking about, > or if you're simply curious, why not stop by this evening? I'll be there > from about 6pm, and I am sure others will be there even sooner. The only > requirement is that you have your geek on. :) Cool idea. Since this is the GTALUG list I think I'll mention that GTALUG is also on tonight ;) Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org IRC: Solver Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 13 17:51:58 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 13:51:58 -0400 Subject: Unpatched Tuesdays at Hacklab.to In-Reply-To: References: <4BC49E57.3060702@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4BC4AF3E.3080108@alteeve.com> On 10-04-13 01:35 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 13 Apr 2010, Digimer wrote: > >> So, if you've got a project you've been hacking on or thinking about, >> or if you're simply curious, why not stop by this evening? I'll be >> there from about 6pm, and I am sure others will be there even sooner. >> The only requirement is that you have your geek on. :) > > Cool idea. Since this is the GTALUG list I think I'll mention that GTALUG > is also on tonight ;) > > Cheers, > > Rob Oh snap! :P -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 13 19:09:46 2010 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 15:09:46 -0400 Subject: Every Tuesday is Unpatched Tuesdays at Hacklab.to In-Reply-To: <4BC4AF3E.3080108-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4BC49E57.3060702@alteeve.com> <4BC4AF3E.3080108@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4BC4C17A.9030700@ss.org> It's EVERY Tuesday, so not to worry. There plenty of opportunities to check out this Amazing Space. On 04/13/2010 01:51 PM, Digimer wrote: > On 10-04-13 01:35 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: >> On Tue, 13 Apr 2010, Digimer wrote: >> >>> So, if you've got a project you've been hacking on or thinking about, >>> or if you're simply curious, why not stop by this evening? I'll be >>> there from about 6pm, and I am sure others will be there even sooner. >>> The only requirement is that you have your geek on. :) >> >> Cool idea. Since this is the GTALUG list I think I'll mention that >> GTALUG >> is also on tonight ;) >> >> Cheers, >> >> Rob > > Oh snap! :P > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 13 23:40:42 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 19:40:42 -0400 Subject: New Debian install X problem Message-ID: I did a new Debian testing install today on an older laptop that's been running Ubuntu for quite a while. I installed from a new CD built with jigdo. I told it to install "web server" but not "graphical desktop" (or whatever the official wording is). I did this because I didn't want GNOME - I've done it before and installed X by hand. This time, after the install was complete, I went ahead and ran "aptitude install xserver-xorg". I installed fluxbox, gave my primary user a ~/.xinitrc file that started fluxbox, typed "startx" and ... the machine tanked. Black screen, no response to any keyboard input (I tried Ctrl-Alt-F1). Only thing to do is hold the power button until the machine powers off (I haven't checked if I can access it remotely). The behaviour is repeatable. Bringing in the Ubuntu /etc/X11/xorg.conf changed nothing (that xorg.conf doesn't do much about screen setup, but did specify the correct resolution as given below). /var/log/messages has nothing at all. /var/log/Xorg.0.log ends in "Output TDMS has no monitor section" which certainly suggests a problem (although not necessarily a lock-up ...). Have I missed a step? Any ideas? The laptop is a five year old Dell Inspiron m700 with a Pentium Centrino 1.6GHz, 1.5M of memory, and a 20G hard drive. The screen is an early widescreen 1280x800 width that used to require a special piece of utility software or it would run in 1024x768 (distorted). More recent Ubuntus seem to have had no problem with it. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 02:14:32 2010 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 22:14:32 -0400 Subject: New Debian install X problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > I did a new Debian testing install today on an older laptop that's > been running Ubuntu for quite a while. ?I installed from a new CD > built with jigdo. ?I told it to install "web server" but not > "graphical desktop" (or whatever the official wording is). ?I did this > because I didn't want GNOME - I've done it before and installed X by > hand. ?This time, after the install was complete, I went ahead and ran > "aptitude install xserver-xorg". ?I installed fluxbox, gave my primary > user a ~/.xinitrc file that started fluxbox, typed "startx" and ... > the machine tanked. ?Black screen, no response to any keyboard input > (I tried Ctrl-Alt-F1). ?Only thing to do is hold the power button > until the machine powers off (I haven't checked if I can access it > remotely). ?The behaviour is repeatable. ?Bringing in the Ubuntu > /etc/X11/xorg.conf changed nothing (that xorg.conf doesn't do much > about screen setup, but did specify the correct resolution as given > below). > > /var/log/messages has nothing at all. ?/var/log/Xorg.0.log ends in > "Output TDMS has no monitor section" which certainly suggests a > problem (although not necessarily a lock-up ...). ?Have I missed a > step? ?Any ideas? > > The laptop is a five year old Dell Inspiron m700 with a Pentium > Centrino 1.6GHz, 1.5M of memory, and a 20G hard drive. ?The screen is > an early widescreen 1280x800 width that used to require a special > piece of utility software or it would run in 1024x768 (distorted). > More recent Ubuntus seem to have had no problem with it. How are you starting fluxbox in ~/.xinitrc? If fluxbox is the only window manager on the system have you tried startx without having a .xinitrc? Without an xorg.conf? Have you tried skipping the wm altogether and starting X with a simple xterm? These are the steps I typically take installing X on a Debian Squeeze box: * install Xorg / video and input drivers / 3D utilities: sudo aptitude install xorg xserver-xorg-video- mesa-utils * generate an xorg.conf (optional): Xorg -configure cp /root/xorg.conf.new /etc/X11/xorg.conf * test by creating a user ~/.xinitrc and add *exec xterm* (no wm)... then 'startx'.. confirm that X is working * then... install some more fonts and Fluxbox: sudo aptitude install ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-bitstream-vera ttf-liberation sudo aptitude install fluxbox dwm-tools feh xscreensaver * edit .xinitrc... commenting out previous xterm entry and adding 'exec startfluxbox' Good luck! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 03:46:46 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 23:46:46 -0400 Subject: Other user groups. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Does anyone know what has happened to the following groups: > - Hamilton Open Source User Group HOSUG has been on hiatus for some time. I'm not aware of attempts to revive HOSUG. Hamilton LUG is still active, but use of the linked forum is uneven. See the google group for meeting announcements. http://groups.google.ca/group/hamilton-linux-user-group-announcements Drupal Group - Waterloo Region. Third Thursdays in Kitchener. http://groups.drupal.org/Waterloo-region Toronto OpenStreetMap Enthusiasts - irregular meetings. http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Toronto/ Waterloo region OpenStreetMap Enthusiasts - irregular meetings. http://www.meetup.com/Waterloo-OSM/ FSOSS - Free Software and Open Source Symposium - Annual conference http://fsoss.senecac.on.ca/ Ontario GNU Linux Fest - Annual conference and trade show. http://onlinux.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 04:32:50 2010 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:32:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: rm argument list too long find and xargs In-Reply-To: References: <4BC34A54.6030105@tmis.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Apr 2010, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Chris F.A. Johnson > > | On Mon, 12 Apr 2010, Christopher Browne wrote: > | > | > > > | No, it is a kernel issue. > > See execve(2). See the section "Limits on size of arguments and > environment". Only in recent versions of that manpage. > > It says that kernels prior to 2.6.23 the memory requirement for args + > environment variables must be less than or equal to 32 pages. Pages > might be 4KiB > > For 2.6.23 and later the limit is probably 1/4 the limit on stack size. Interesting, but this is too recent to depend on generally. For example, my latest CentOS is running 2.6.18 . > | > a) find -name "pattern" | xargs rm > > As CFAJ said in another message later in this thread, one should always > keep in mind that filenames might contain "magic" characters like space > and write scripts that handle this case. > > And xargs is stupid about handling empty lists unless you tell it to > be smart. > > find -name "pattern" -print0 | xargs --null --no-run-if-empty rm Of course, programmers should know that this is the best method, but it makes me question the original design of 'xargs'. WHY was it designed to break when arguments contains quote or double-quote? WHY was it designed to "be stupid" about handling empty lists, by default? As an exercise, a while back, I wrote my own version of xargs (eg: myxargs) to handle all those weird cases, except newline, just as a convenience and with very little code. I wound up using it all the time and it has never let me down. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 11:23:18 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 07:23:18 -0400 Subject: Ununseptium - New kid on the periodic table In-Reply-To: References: <20100412183035.GL4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BC44E4D.2000208@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4BC5A5A6.8050303@rogers.com> John Martin wrote: > Hey, that's unfair considering how difficult it would be to measure > the density of Dubya. -j > > I've often said he's so dense he bends light. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 13:03:04 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:03:04 -0400 Subject: Ununseptium - New kid on the periodic table In-Reply-To: References: <20100412183035.GL4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BC44E4D.2000208@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 10:04 AM, John Martin wrote: > Hey, that's unfair considering how difficult it would be to measure > the density of Dubya. ?-j Compared to the silver tongue of Rhodes Scholar Clinton, he was certainly pretty dull, but I find the whole "how dumb is he" thing a tiresome form of ignorant comment from prejudiced provincials. His entrance into politics is actually rather interesting, and rather less obvious in its course than one might expect. In 1994, he ran against Texas governor Ann Richards, who, it is worth observing, was not Republican. (This is contrary to common prejudice that Texans couldn't ever vote Democrat... Of course, the *previous* president from Texas, LBJ, was also not Republican :-).) In retrospect, I regret that I did not follow Bush's gubernatorial election (I was in the state at the time, so the news probably passed by me), but the after-the-fact indications are that: a) There was a debate during the campaign, and GWB evidently acquitted himself well. Daddy may have paid for the schooling, but apparently the Yale education *did* provide some kind of value. b) The main misstep in that election was where Richards (noted as a charismatic character) fell to calling Bush "some jerk." c) Contrary to usual prejudice (there's certainly a lot of it around!), *her* campaign spent more than Bush's, so it wasn't a matter of him "buying" the election. Expectations for US president should properly be rather a lot higher than those for a governor. It's arguable that such expectations exceeded Bush's capabilities. But bald "he's a moron" comments aren't an argument of that. When observed on the US side of the border, they tend to betray the kind of blind partisanship that is paralyzing the American political process. I see little practical difference between "Bush is a moron, and stole the presidency" and "I'm not sure I believe Obama was actually born in the United States." They're the same kind of nonsense. They feed each other, and are polarizing American politics in harmful ways. It's not just in the realm of party politics - there are a pair of "distinct societies" growing out of this, with mighty worrysome trends. Similar is happening in Canada, and that causes me great concern. There used to be a "white-vs-black" racial divide in the US; the nearest equivalent here was our "two solitudes" of English versus French. Those are no longer fundamental "defining issues," in either country, but sadly, this is not because the divisions have been broken, it is, instead, because new divisions have been created to replace them. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 14:20:11 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:20:11 -0400 Subject: New Debian install X problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 13 April 2010 22:14, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Giles Orr wrote: >> I did a new Debian testing install today on an older laptop that's >> been running Ubuntu for quite a while. ?I installed from a new CD >> built with jigdo. ?I told it to install "web server" but not >> "graphical desktop" (or whatever the official wording is). ?I did this >> because I didn't want GNOME - I've done it before and installed X by >> hand. ?This time, after the install was complete, I went ahead and ran >> "aptitude install xserver-xorg". ?I installed fluxbox, gave my primary >> user a ~/.xinitrc file that started fluxbox, typed "startx" and ... >> the machine tanked. ?Black screen, no response to any keyboard input >> (I tried Ctrl-Alt-F1). ?Only thing to do is hold the power button >> until the machine powers off (I haven't checked if I can access it >> remotely). ?The behaviour is repeatable. ?Bringing in the Ubuntu >> /etc/X11/xorg.conf changed nothing (that xorg.conf doesn't do much >> about screen setup, but did specify the correct resolution as given >> below). >> >> /var/log/messages has nothing at all. ?/var/log/Xorg.0.log ends in >> "Output TDMS has no monitor section" which certainly suggests a >> problem (although not necessarily a lock-up ...). ?Have I missed a >> step? ?Any ideas? >> >> The laptop is a five year old Dell Inspiron m700 with a Pentium >> Centrino 1.6GHz, 1.5M of memory, and a 20G hard drive. ?The screen is >> an early widescreen 1280x800 width that used to require a special >> piece of utility software or it would run in 1024x768 (distorted). >> More recent Ubuntus seem to have had no problem with it. > > How are you starting fluxbox in ~/.xinitrc? If fluxbox is the only > window manager on the system have you tried startx without having a > .xinitrc? Without an xorg.conf? Have you tried skipping the wm > altogether and starting X with a simple xterm? > > These are the steps I typically take installing X on a Debian Squeeze box: > > * install Xorg / video and input drivers / 3D utilities: > > sudo aptitude install xorg xserver-xorg-video- mesa-utils > > * generate an xorg.conf (optional): > > Xorg -configure > cp /root/xorg.conf.new /etc/X11/xorg.conf > > * test by creating a user ~/.xinitrc and add *exec xterm* (no wm)... > then 'startx'.. confirm that X is working > > * then... install some more fonts and Fluxbox: > > sudo aptitude install ttf-mscorefonts-installer ttf-bitstream-vera > ttf-liberation > sudo aptitude install fluxbox dwm-tools feh xscreensaver > > * edit .xinitrc... commenting out previous xterm entry and adding > 'exec startfluxbox' I had tried without an xorg.conf, which is why I thought adding one might help. But the response is the same either way. As for fluxbox vs xterm ... I didn't try that because I'm almost entirely certain the problem is at a much lower level. So instead I re-ran the install, but this time I installed "Graphical Desktop Environment" from the packages selection. The install took much longer, but went fine. When I rebooted, it came up to GRUB, and when I told it to go boot, it blacked out and became unresponsive - exactly as before. Forced a power off, booted again, this time chose recovery. Guess what? The geniuses at Debian have "recovery mode" go into graphical! So the computer goes black and unresponsive. I have two OS partitions on this machine, so I guess I'm going to re-install Ubuntu on one of them to see what happens. The old Ubuntu install that worked so well was first installed in 2005 and continuously upgraded (it still exists on another HD, and is a last ditch solution) so I'm not sure a fresh Ubuntu install will work in this case. I would certainly welcome any further thoughts on how to troubleshoot this, or what might be causing it. Thanks. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 14:40:46 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:40:46 -0400 Subject: Other user groups. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Does anyone know what has happened to the following groups: >> - Hamilton Open Source User Group > > HOSUG has been on hiatus for some time. ?I'm not aware of attempts to > revive HOSUG. > > Hamilton LUG is still active, but use of the linked forum is uneven. > See the google group for meeting announcements. > http://groups.google.ca/group/hamilton-linux-user-group-announcements > > Drupal Group - Waterloo Region. ?Third Thursdays in Kitchener. > http://groups.drupal.org/Waterloo-region > > Toronto OpenStreetMap Enthusiasts - irregular meetings. > http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Toronto/ > > Waterloo region OpenStreetMap Enthusiasts - irregular meetings. > http://www.meetup.com/Waterloo-OSM/ The above have now been dealt with in the http://gtalug.org/wiki/Toronto_opensource_computing_groups page. The Free Software and Open Source Symposium was previously dealt with on the http://gtalug.org/wiki/Events page. > FSOSS - Free Software and Open Source Symposium - Annual conference > http://fsoss.senecac.on.ca/ I have been unable to locate a website that officially announces a 2010 date for the Ontario GNU Linux Fest. Once that is posted I would be happy to add it to the events page. > Ontario GNU Linux Fest - Annual conference and trade show. > http://onlinux.ca/ Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 15:11:13 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:11:13 -0400 Subject: New Debian install X problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100414151113.GM4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:20:11AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > I had tried without an xorg.conf, which is why I thought adding one > might help. But the response is the same either way. As for fluxbox > vs xterm ... I didn't try that because I'm almost entirely certain > the problem is at a much lower level. So instead I re-ran the > install, but this time I installed "Graphical Desktop Environment" > from the packages selection. The install took much longer, but went > fine. When I rebooted, it came up to GRUB, and when I told it to go > boot, it blacked out and became unresponsive - exactly as before. > Forced a power off, booted again, this time chose recovery. Guess > what? The geniuses at Debian have "recovery mode" go into graphical! > So the computer goes black and unresponsive. Recovery mode is normally single user. It does NOT start X. It never has. Perhaps the console font setting that is being done is breaking the video output. Or somehow the kernel is loading a framebuffer driver which is messing things up (I have noticed fedora now does this by default driving some people rather nuts). > I have two OS partitions on this machine, so I guess I'm going to > re-install Ubuntu on one of them to see what happens. The old Ubuntu > install that worked so well was first installed in 2005 and > continuously upgraded (it still exists on another HD, and is a last > ditch solution) so I'm not sure a fresh Ubuntu install will work in > this case. I would certainly welcome any further thoughts on how to > troubleshoot this, or what might be causing it. Thanks. So which video chip does this machine use? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 17:00:19 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 13:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: New Debian install X problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Giles Orr | Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Subject: [TLUG]: New Debian install X problem | | I did a new Debian testing install today on an older laptop that's | been running Ubuntu for quite a while. I installed from a new CD | built with jigdo. I told it to install "web server" but not | "graphical desktop" (or whatever the official wording is). I did this | because I didn't want GNOME - I've done it before and installed X by | hand. This time, after the install was complete, I went ahead and ran | "aptitude install xserver-xorg". I installed fluxbox, gave my primary | user a ~/.xinitrc file that started fluxbox, typed "startx" and ... | the machine tanked. Black screen, no response to any keyboard input | (I tried Ctrl-Alt-F1). Only thing to do is hold the power button | until the machine powers off (I haven't checked if I can access it | remotely). I don't know an answer, but here are a few thoughts: - "kernel mode setting" sometimes causes the system to go off in the weeds. There is a kernel parameter to turn it off. Mind you, I don't know whether Debian Testing uses KMS. - I hope you've googled. The m700 is not a rare device so I'd expect that you would not be the first to try it with Debian Testing. - /var/log/Xorg.0.log very often tells what's really going wrong. It is very verbose and arcane, but worth a look. The problems often show up fairly far back in the log. - One thing that might help is collecting an Xorg.0.log from a boot of a working setup and see how it differs from the Xorg.0.log on the failing system. | "Output TDMS has no monitor section" which certainly suggests a | problem (although not necessarily a lock-up ...). I don't know Debian Testing's version of xorg. Ones I'm using on Ubuntu and Fedora no longer need an xorg.conf -- they make one up (and show it in /var/log/Xorg.0.log). But the made-up ones are sometimes not good enough so you can make your own. TDMS is the output encoder for a DVI or HDMI port. Many (most?) LCD panels built into laptops use LVDS instead. If the external port is VGA, not DVI, then this is even more confusing. I wonder if your X is trying to use the external monitor port instead of the built-in LCD. It is complaining that you don't have a suitable Monitor Section in the (possibly synthesized) xorg.conf. [Pause while I go off and look at my desktop's Xorg.0.log] (II) RADEON(0): ref_freq: 2700, min_out_pll: 64800, max_out_pll: 120000, min_in_pll: 100, max_in_pll: 1350, xclk: 40000, sclk: 725.000000, mclk: 500.000000 (II) RADEON(0): PLL parameters: rf=2700 rd=12 min=64800 max=120000; xclk=40000 (II) RADEON(0): Output DVI-1 has no monitor section (II) RADEON(0): I2C bus "DVI-1" initialized. (II) RADEON(0): Output DVI-0 has no monitor section (II) RADEON(0): I2C bus "DVI-0" initialized. (II) RADEON(0): Port0: XRANDR name: DVI-1 Connector: DVI-D DFP1: INTERNAL_UNIPHY DDC reg: 0x7e50 (II) RADEON(0): Port1: XRANDR name: DVI-0 Connector: DVI-I CRT1: INTERNAL_KLDSCP_DAC1 DFP2: INTERNAL_KLDSCP_LVTMA DDC reg: 0x7e40 Notice the (II) on similar messages? That means "informational" -- not a warning. Notice the RADEON(0)? That says which driver is generating the message. Is yours informational? Did you quote the whole line? This just shows that looking at the last line isn't enough. I don't know that I have more time to devote to this but you might consider putting your Xorg.0.log on pastebin.ca and sending us the URL. | The laptop is a five year old Dell Inspiron m700 with a Pentium | Centrino 1.6GHz, 1.5M of memory, and a 20G hard drive. The screen is | an early widescreen 1280x800 width that used to require a special | piece of utility software or it would run in 1024x768 (distorted). | More recent Ubuntus seem to have had no problem with it. Can you boot a current Ubuntu Live CD (or USB stick)? Since Ubuntu and Debian are closely related, that might tell you something. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 17:04:19 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 13:04:19 -0400 Subject: Fwd: George Edwin Nicol 1946 - 2010 References: Message-ID: <4143D8AE-4055-46F6-8269-E1C56705ACAC@mylesbraithwaite.com> --- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org Begin forwarded message: > From: "Allingham, Cindy (JUS)" > Date: April 14, 2010 12:13:46 PM GMT-04:00 > To: > Subject: FW: George Edwin Nicol 1946 - 2010 > > A memorial service will be held for George Nicol on April 24, at > 2:00 p.m. at Runnymede United Church, 432 Runnymede Rd. in the west > end of the city. Could you please post this info on the GTALUG > website or wherever you think best. Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > Cindy Allingham > PM, Technology Solutions Branch, JTS > Ministry of Community Safety > and Correctional Services > 21 College St., Toronto > Office: 416-326-6998 > Cell: 416-553-1610 > From: Allingham, Cindy (JUS) > Sent: April 8, 2010 1:34 PM > To: 'me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org' > Subject: George Edwin Nicol 1946 - 2010 > > My friend, George Nicol, was at one time a passionate member of the > Linux Users Group. He was a computer hobbyist in the true old- > fashioned sense, and derived a great deal of satisfaction out of his > activities with the TLUG. If anyone in that group knew him, they > will be saddened to know he passed away at Trillium Hospital on > March 30 after fighting a short battle with lung cancer. His wife, > Lynn McPhail, is organizing a memorial service for him in a few > weeks, and I will pass along that info as I get it. > > _______________________________________________ > Cindy Allingham > PM, Technology Solutions Branch, JTS > Ministry of Community Safety > and Correctional Services > 21 College St., Toronto > Office: 416-326-6998 > Cell: 416-553-1610 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 17:19:16 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 13:19:16 -0400 Subject: New Debian install X problem In-Reply-To: <20100414151113.GM4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100414151113.GM4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BC5F914.5050808@utoronto.ca> On 04/14/2010 11:11 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:20:11AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >> I had tried without an xorg.conf, which is why I thought adding one >> might help. But the response is the same either way. As for fluxbox >> vs xterm ... I didn't try that because I'm almost entirely certain >> the problem is at a much lower level. So instead I re-ran the >> install, but this time I installed "Graphical Desktop Environment" >> from the packages selection. The install took much longer, but went >> fine. When I rebooted, it came up to GRUB, and when I told it to go >> boot, it blacked out and became unresponsive - exactly as before. >> Forced a power off, booted again, this time chose recovery. Guess >> what? The geniuses at Debian have "recovery mode" go into graphical! >> So the computer goes black and unresponsive. > > Recovery mode is normally single user. It does NOT start X. It never > has. Perhaps the console font setting that is being done is breaking > the video output. Or somehow the kernel is loading a framebuffer > driver which is messing things up (I have noticed fedora now does this > by default driving some people rather nuts). Boot using single mode, and try starting X that way. If it fails (sounds like it will) you won't get the recovery mode thing, though I can't say I've seen it pop up like that on squeeze for me. You should also be able to access Xorg.log from your last unsuccessfull session without starting X. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 20:47:05 2010 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:47:05 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [u-u] Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 14 Apr 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I won't be able to make it because I lost my key yesterday at the TLUG meeting. So i'm locked at home today. I someone found a black Kingston pendrive with a single key, please let me know. On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 07:22, Colin McGregor wrote: > FYI > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Unix Unanimous Webmaster > Date: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:01 AM > Subject: [u-u] Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 14 Apr 2010 > To: u-u-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org > > > > The next meeting of Unix Unanimous will be held at 6:45 pm on > Wednesday 14 April 2010, in room BA 2179 on the 2nd floor of the > the Bahen Centre for Information Technology at 40 St. George Street, > on the University of Toronto campus. > > Unix Unanimous is an informal gathering of people interested in > Unix and related topics. There are no fees or membership > requirements, and the meeting is open to all. Participants > typically include Unix professionals, students, and hobbyists. > > This message will be repeated on the Monday before the meeting. > If there are any items for the agenda, email u-u-owner-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org > before then. > > The meeting is always held on the second Wednesday of each month. > > > Special Announcements: > > A mailing list has been set up for this announcement. If you > wish to receive notification via email, go to the web page > https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u/ in order > to subscribe yourself. > > > A map of the area can be found at http://unixunanimous.org where this > message is repeated, and will always contain the correct location > and time of the next meeting. > > _______________________________________________ > u-u mailing list > u-u-sb41XHKw7bdvuSlQZN9BUtrUbErFZevf at public.gmane.org > https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Renata Rocha re-9siASaY8nq0dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 21:20:06 2010 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:20:06 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [u-u] Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 14 Apr 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just to let you know the keys have been found! On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 16:47, Renata Rocha wrote: > I won't be able to make it because I lost my key yesterday at the TLUG > meeting. So i'm locked at home today. > > I someone found a black Kingston pendrive with a single key, please > let me know. > > On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 07:22, Colin McGregor wrote: >> FYI >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Unix Unanimous Webmaster >> Date: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 12:01 AM >> Subject: [u-u] Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 14 Apr 2010 >> To: u-u-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org >> >> >> >> The next meeting of Unix Unanimous will be held at 6:45 pm on >> Wednesday 14 April 2010, in room BA 2179 on the 2nd floor of the >> the Bahen Centre for Information Technology at 40 St. George Street, >> on the University of Toronto campus. >> >> Unix Unanimous is an informal gathering of people interested in >> Unix and related topics. There are no fees or membership >> requirements, and the meeting is open to all. Participants >> typically include Unix professionals, students, and hobbyists. >> >> This message will be repeated on the Monday before the meeting. >> If there are any items for the agenda, email u-u-owner-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org >> before then. >> >> The meeting is always held on the second Wednesday of each month. >> >> >> Special Announcements: >> >> A mailing list has been set up for this announcement. If you >> wish to receive notification via email, go to the web page >> https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u/ in order >> to subscribe yourself. >> >> >> A map of the area can be found at http://unixunanimous.org where this >> message is repeated, and will always contain the correct location >> and time of the next meeting. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> u-u mailing list >> u-u-sb41XHKw7bdvuSlQZN9BUtrUbErFZevf at public.gmane.org >> https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Renata Rocha > re-9siASaY8nq0dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org > http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha > -- Renata Rocha re-9siASaY8nq0dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 14 23:49:44 2010 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 19:49:44 -0400 Subject: Ununseptium - New kid on the periodic table In-Reply-To: References: <20100412183035.GL4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BC44E4D.2000208@rogers.com> Message-ID: <2313bdbd7e4a89652545c68f7f1ddb00.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> > On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 10:04 AM, John Martin wrote: >> Hey, that's unfair considering how difficult it would be to measure >> the density of Dubya. ?-j > > Compared to the silver tongue of Rhodes Scholar Clinton, he was > certainly pretty dull, but I find the whole "how dumb is he" thing a > tiresome form of ignorant comment from prejudiced provincials. > < turgid, but vaguely worthwhile political commentary deleted > ... uuuh, I just come back to this list after a couple of days. Wasn't this about Element 117? Was Element 117 discovered by George W. Bush? Wow... (stares into space with wide-eyed disbelief). 8-) Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 00:02:31 2010 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 00:02:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Synergy, controlling many clients with same setting Message-ID: Hi, I want to layout my synergy control so that all client machines are to the left of my main host. Is it possible? Only one client machine might connect to my main host server at any given time, but I don't want to change my the ~/.synergy.conf file every time when the client machine changes (because they have different screen names, etc). Thanks Antonio PS. If you haven't heard/used synergy before, let Chris Schoeneman lead you to a wonderful world that you'll never regret to enter... http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6393 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 00:29:55 2010 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 00:29:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: New Debian install X problem References: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 22:14:32 -0400, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > These are the steps I typically take installing X on a Debian Squeeze > box . . . Thanks for the detailed steps, they are very helpful. > * test by creating a user ~/.xinitrc and add *exec xterm* (no wm)... > then 'startx'.. confirm that X is working I used to test whether X is working or not by just starting Xorg, without any wm or xapp, hence no tweaking necessary to ~/.xinitrc. But I forgot how I did it now, anybody can help? thanks Antonio -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 00:38:26 2010 From: rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rafael Carneiro) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 20:38:26 -0400 Subject: Synergy, controlling many clients with same setting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think you should be able to do it by giving all your clients the same screen name. Have you tried that? If you're running debian/ubuntu there's a nice little tool called quicksynergy that should make that even easier (it creates the config files for you). Rafael On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Antonio T. Sun wrote: > Hi, > > I want to layout my synergy control so that all client machines are to > the left of my main host. Is it possible? > > Only one client machine might connect to my main host server at any given > time, but I don't want to change my the ~/.synergy.conf file every time > when the client machine changes (because they have different screen > names, etc). > > Thanks > > Antonio > > PS. If you haven't heard/used synergy before, let Chris Schoeneman lead > you to a wonderful world that you'll never regret to enter... > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6393 > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 01:11:49 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:11:49 -0400 Subject: New Debian install X problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 14 April 2010 13:00, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Giles Orr > | Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > | Subject: [TLUG]: New Debian install X problem > | > | I did a new Debian testing install today on an older laptop that's > | been running Ubuntu for quite a while. ?I installed from a new CD > | built with jigdo. ?I told it to install "web server" but not > | "graphical desktop" (or whatever the official wording is). ?I did this > | because I didn't want GNOME - I've done it before and installed X by > | hand. ?This time, after the install was complete, I went ahead and ran > | "aptitude install xserver-xorg". ?I installed fluxbox, gave my primary > | user a ~/.xinitrc file that started fluxbox, typed "startx" and ... > | the machine tanked. ?Black screen, no response to any keyboard input > | (I tried Ctrl-Alt-F1). ?Only thing to do is hold the power button > | until the machine powers off (I haven't checked if I can access it > | remotely). > > I don't know an answer, but here are a few thoughts: > > - "kernel mode setting" sometimes causes the system to go off in the > ?weeds. ?There is a kernel parameter to turn it off. ?Mind you, I > ?don't know whether Debian Testing uses KMS. > > - I hope you've googled. ?The m700 is not a rare device so I'd expect > ?that you would not be the first to try it with Debian Testing. > > - /var/log/Xorg.0.log very often tells what's really going wrong. > ?It is very verbose and arcane, but worth a look. ?The problems > ?often show up fairly far back in the log. > > - One thing that might help is collecting an Xorg.0.log from a boot of > ?a working setup and see how it differs from the Xorg.0.log on the > ?failing system. > > | "Output TDMS has no monitor section" which certainly suggests a > | problem (although not necessarily a lock-up ...). > > I don't know Debian Testing's version of xorg. ?Ones I'm using on > Ubuntu and Fedora no longer need an xorg.conf -- they make one up (and > show it in /var/log/Xorg.0.log). ?But the made-up ones are sometimes > not good enough so you can make your own. > > TDMS is the output encoder for a DVI or HDMI port. ?Many (most?) LCD > panels built into laptops use LVDS instead. ?If the external port is > VGA, not DVI, then this is even more confusing. > > I wonder if your X is trying to use the external monitor port instead > of the built-in LCD. > > It is complaining that you don't have a suitable Monitor Section in > the (possibly synthesized) xorg.conf. > > [Pause while I go off and look at my desktop's Xorg.0.log] > > (II) RADEON(0): ref_freq: 2700, min_out_pll: 64800, max_out_pll: 120000, min_in_pll: 100, max_in_pll: 1350, xclk: 40000, sclk: 725.000000, mclk: 500.000000 > (II) RADEON(0): PLL parameters: rf=2700 rd=12 min=64800 max=120000; xclk=40000 > (II) RADEON(0): Output DVI-1 has no monitor section > (II) RADEON(0): I2C bus "DVI-1" initialized. > (II) RADEON(0): Output DVI-0 has no monitor section > (II) RADEON(0): I2C bus "DVI-0" initialized. > (II) RADEON(0): Port0: > ?XRANDR name: DVI-1 > ?Connector: DVI-D > ?DFP1: INTERNAL_UNIPHY > ?DDC reg: 0x7e50 > (II) RADEON(0): Port1: > ?XRANDR name: DVI-0 > ?Connector: DVI-I > ?CRT1: INTERNAL_KLDSCP_DAC1 > ?DFP2: INTERNAL_KLDSCP_LVTMA > ?DDC reg: 0x7e40 > > Notice the (II) on similar messages? ?That means "informational" -- > not a warning. > > Notice the RADEON(0)? ?That says which driver is generating the > message. > > Is yours informational? ?Did you quote the whole line? > > This just shows that looking at the last line isn't enough. > > I don't know that I have more time to devote to this but you might > consider putting your Xorg.0.log on pastebin.ca and sending us the > URL. > > | The laptop is a five year old Dell Inspiron m700 with a Pentium > | Centrino 1.6GHz, 1.5M of memory, and a 20G hard drive. ?The screen is > | an early widescreen 1280x800 width that used to require a special > | piece of utility software or it would run in 1024x768 (distorted). > | More recent Ubuntus seem to have had no problem with it. > > Can you boot a current Ubuntu Live CD (or USB stick)? ?Since Ubuntu > and Debian are closely related, that might tell you something. Since I had a fix in hand, I went with that ... I installed Ubuntu. I'm a bit disappointed with Ubuntu and myself - most of my boxes run Debian testing these days and I prefer that. But given that this install is only going to be used for a couple weeks (going to a conference across the border) I didn't want to spend a great deal of time debugging this problem. If (perhaps "when" is more correct) I get back to this, I'll be looking at the TDMS/external monitor thing in particular, and the console font setting. The Debian install is there, side-by-side with the Ubuntu, so perhaps I'll get it fixed yet. Thanks to all who replied, particularly Hugh for this very detailed response. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 02:06:35 2010 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 02:06:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Synergy, controlling many clients with same setting References: Message-ID: I don't like top posting, but anyway, maybe it is the rule here. On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 20:38:26 -0400, Rafael Carneiro wrote: > I think you should be able to do it by giving all your clients the same > screen name. Have you tried that? If you're running debian/ubuntu Forcing all the client machines to have the same screen name? Givme a break, that'd be more troublesome than switching synergy config files. > there's a nice little tool called quicksynergy that should make that > even easier (it creates the config files for you). I'm using debian... Thanks but no thank, I prefer text editors to GUI tools. Thanks all the same. > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Antonio T. Sun > wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I want to layout my synergy control so that all client machines are to >> the left of my main host. Is it possible? >> >> Only one client machine might connect to my main host server at any >> given time, but I don't want to change my the ~/.synergy.conf file >> every time when the client machine changes (because they have different >> screen names, etc). >> >> Thanks >> >> Antonio >> >> PS. If you haven't heard/used synergy before, let Chris Schoeneman lead >> you to a wonderful world that you'll never regret to enter... >> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6393 >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG >> requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 05:14:28 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 01:14:28 -0400 Subject: bootable distro that plays restricted formats? Message-ID: I need a bootable distro that will allow me to play the restricted formats without installing any software. Does any such thing exist? Any discs I've tried of course will not play the standard avi format or mp3. >From what I've been reading, it looks more like I would have to create a custom bootable disc or USB key. If so, can someone point me to one that was dead easy setup routine they've found? I've looked at UNetbootin, but I can't see anything in there for restricted multimedia support. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 05:58:41 2010 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 01:58:41 -0400 Subject: bootable distro that plays restricted formats? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BC6AB11.1030308@rogers.com> On 15/04/2010 1:14 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I need a bootable distro that will allow me to play the restricted > formats without installing any software. Does any such thing exist? > Any discs I've tried of course will not play the standard avi format > or mp3. > > > From what I've been reading, it looks more like I would have to create > a custom bootable disc or USB key. If so, can someone point me to one > that was dead easy setup routine they've found? I've looked at > UNetbootin, but I can't see anything in there for restricted > multimedia support. > Try Mepis 8.5. It should come pretty close. I know that it will play mp3s via Amarok. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 11:38:16 2010 From: rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rafael Carneiro) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 07:38:16 -0400 Subject: Synergy, controlling many clients with same setting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What's the problem with giving all clients the same screen name? On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Antonio T. Sun wrote: > > I don't like top posting, but anyway, maybe it is the rule here. > > On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 20:38:26 -0400, Rafael Carneiro wrote: > >> I think you should be able to do it by giving all your clients the same >> screen name. Have you tried that? If you're running debian/ubuntu > > Forcing all the client machines to have the same screen name? > Givme a break, that'd be more troublesome than switching synergy config > files. > >> there's a nice little tool called quicksynergy that should make that >> even easier (it creates the config files for you). > > I'm using debian... Thanks but no thank, I prefer text editors to GUI > tools. > > Thanks all the same. > >> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Antonio T. Sun >> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I want to layout my synergy control so that all client machines are to >>> the left of my main host. Is it possible? >>> >>> Only one client machine might connect to my main host server at any >>> given time, but I don't want to change my the ~/.synergy.conf file >>> every time when the client machine changes (because they have different >>> screen names, etc). >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Antonio >>> >>> PS. If you haven't heard/used synergy before, let Chris Schoeneman lead >>> you to a wonderful world that you'll never regret to enter... >>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6393 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG >>> requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Rafael Carneiro http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rcarneiro -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 12:46:17 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 08:46:17 -0400 Subject: looking for part time linux admin. Message-ID: Visible Assets is looking for a part time linux sys admin. We have offices in Mississauga and servers in Cambridge (Sentex) I'm looking for someone to maintain the servers. Besides general server health we are looking to maintain postfix, postgresql, openvpn, bacula. mainly on redhat(ish) servers Please reply off-list. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 15:25:50 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:25:50 -0400 Subject: My scripts and settings Message-ID: I'm putting all my possibly useful scripts and settings on github. I noticed I was getting a lot of good script ideas from all over the intertubes, so why not? Somebody will certainly benefit. http://github.com/fzero So far there's a script to create a remote Git repository over SSH and some Vim/MacVim settings. More coming soon(-ish). - FZ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 15:46:43 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:46:43 -0400 Subject: bootable distro that plays restricted formats? In-Reply-To: <4BC6AB11.1030308-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4BC6AB11.1030308@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 01:58, John McGregor wrote: > On 15/04/2010 1:14 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > >> I need a bootable distro that will allow me to play the restricted >> formats without installing any software. Does any such thing exist? >> Any discs I've tried of course will not play the standard avi format >> or mp3.(...) >> >> Try Mepis 8.5. It should come pretty close. I know that it will play mp3s > via Amarok. > I believe Linux Mint will also do that. http://www.linuxmint.com FZ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 16:17:57 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:17:57 -0400 Subject: bootable distro that plays restricted formats? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 1:14 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I need a bootable distro that will allow me to play the restricted > formats without installing any software. Does any such thing exist? > Any discs I've tried of course will not play the standard avi format > or mp3. > > From what I've been reading, it looks more like I would have to create > a custom bootable disc or USB key. If so, can someone point me to one > that was dead easy setup routine they've found? I've looked at > UNetbootin, but I can't see anything in there for restricted > multimedia support. This sounds like a job for Morphix, which is a variant of Knoppix intended to enable creating custom bootable distribution disks. Unfortunately, you're asking for something that's inherently dangerous for distribution makers to directly support. The codecs for MP3 and AVI include components where there are patent claims. MP3 has a surprisingly longer set than I'd have expected; see "In short, with Thomson, Fraunhofer IIS,[52] Sisvel (and its U.S. subsidiary Audio MPEG),[53] Texas MP3 Technologies, and Alcatel-Lucent[36] all claiming legal control of relevant MP3 patents related to decoders, the legal status of MP3 remains unclear in countries where those patents are valid." AVI doesn't seem to have such issues directly, but it's just a container for other formats, and some of those are "touchy" much as with MP3. It's much the same issue as that with Java, which isn't normally included in CD-able distributions, albeit with somewhat different reasons. (The devil's in the details for *all* of these!) Mono's freer, license-wise, but I periodically hear hysterical rants about how inclusion's a disaster because of magical Microsoft tentacles... In any case there are enough prickly organizations with their legal tentacles all over codecs for things you care about that while you may readily construct your own bootable CD, you won't find one pre-made for you. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 16:55:01 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Adobe blogger on Apple iPhone SDK restriction Message-ID: Adobe Flash platform evangelist to Apple: 'Go Screw Yourself' I thought that this was amusing/interesting. By now you have surely heard about the new iPhone 4.0 SDK language that appears to make creating applications in any non-Apple-approved languages a violation of terms. Obviously Adobe is looking into this wording carefully so I will not comment any further until there is an official conclusion. Wow. As a computer scientist, I would think the line between programming language and something else is not at all clear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 16:55:20 2010 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:55:20 -0400 Subject: bootable distro that plays restricted formats? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 1:14 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I need a bootable distro that will allow me to play the restricted > formats without installing any software. Does any such thing exist? > Any discs I've tried of course will not play the standard avi format > or mp3. You might have a look at dyne:bolic[1]; while it's primary focus seems more on creating content it may be suitable for your needs. I played around with it several years ago and rather enjoyed it. Digging through the manual a bit I found some info on supported formats: Audio: WAV, MIDI, MP3, OGG / VORBIS, MOD, XM, FLAC, SPEEX (and more) Video: AVI, MPEG, DIVX , WMV, with additional support for TV cards and Quicktime, RTSP and HTTP live streams YMMV of course. [1] -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 17:09:42 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:09:42 -0400 Subject: Adobe blogger on Apple iPhone SDK restriction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 12:55 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > As a computer scientist, I would think the line between programming > language and something else is not at all clear. "Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the documented APIs (e.g., applications that link to documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited)." It looks a lot like a "boy, we want to give Android a shot in the arm!" thing. Not intentionally, but it certainly has the side-effect of making other platforms look more attractive. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 17:12:30 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:12:30 -0400 Subject: bootable distro that plays restricted formats? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 1:14 AM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> I need a bootable distro that will allow me to play the restricted >> formats without installing any software. Does any such thing exist? >> Any discs I've tried of course will not play the standard avi format >> or mp3. >> >> From what I've been reading, it looks more like I would have to create >> a custom bootable disc or USB key. If so, can someone point me to one >> that was dead easy setup routine they've found? I've looked at >> UNetbootin, but I can't see anything in there for restricted >> multimedia support. > > This sounds like a job for Morphix, which is a variant of Knoppix > intended to enable creating custom bootable distribution disks. > > Unfortunately, you're asking for something that's inherently dangerous > for distribution makers to directly support. ?The codecs for MP3 and > AVI include components where there are patent claims. ?MP3 has a > surprisingly longer set than I'd have expected; see > > > "In short, with Thomson, Fraunhofer IIS,[52] Sisvel (and its U.S. > subsidiary Audio MPEG),[53] Texas MP3 Technologies, and > Alcatel-Lucent[36] all claiming legal control of relevant MP3 patents > related to decoders, the legal status of MP3 remains unclear in > countries where those patents are valid." > > AVI doesn't seem to have such issues directly, but it's just a > container for other formats, and some of those are "touchy" much as > with MP3. > > It's much the same issue as that with Java, which isn't normally > included in CD-able distributions, albeit with somewhat different > reasons. ?(The devil's in the details for *all* of these!) ?Mono's > freer, license-wise, but I periodically hear hysterical rants about > how inclusion's a disaster because of magical Microsoft tentacles... > > In any case there are enough prickly organizations with their legal > tentacles all over codecs for things you care about that while you may > readily construct your own bootable CD, you won't find one pre-made > for you. That's what I was thinking, but I was surprised that there wasn't more on offer for this, ie. a tool like UNetbootin that would allow me to build my own bootable disc with multimedia tools, just like adding the recovery tools and so on. I checked out Morphix, but it's not exactly...there. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 17:13:13 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:13:13 -0400 Subject: bootable distro that plays restricted formats? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 1:14 AM, Thomas Milne > wrote: >> I need a bootable distro that will allow me to play the restricted >> formats without installing any software. Does any such thing exist? >> Any discs I've tried of course will not play the standard avi format >> or mp3. > > You might have a look at dyne:bolic[1]; while it's primary focus seems > more on creating content it may be suitable for your needs. ?I played > around with it several years ago and rather enjoyed it. > > Digging through the manual a bit I found some info on supported formats: > > Audio: WAV, MIDI, MP3, OGG / VORBIS, MOD, XM, FLAC, SPEEX (and more) > Video: AVI, MPEG, DIVX , WMV, with additional support for TV cards and > Quicktime, RTSP and HTTP live streams > > YMMV of course. > > [1] > That looks promising, I'll check it out :-) -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 17:26:29 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Dell "Days of Deals" has Ubuntu notebook Message-ID: I'm not recommending, just noting. Promotion of products shipped with Linux is really rare. They are offerning a Vostro V13 (13.3" display) notebook with Ubuntu 9.04 for $429, $100 off the "normal" price. This is a step away from a netbook. The processor is a Celeron M USV 743, not an Atom. It should be faster but use a bit more power. The processor does not support VT or Enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology I find it hard to get specs for Dell stuff. There are some here: The thing looks pretty reasonable. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 18:40:35 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 14:40:35 -0400 Subject: Dell "Days of Deals" has Ubuntu notebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 13:26, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > I'm not recommending, just noting. ?Promotion of products shipped with > Linux is really rare. > > > > They are offerning a Vostro V13 (13.3" display) notebook with Ubuntu 9.04 > for $429, $100 off the "normal" price. > > This is a step away from a netbook. ?The processor is a Celeron M USV 743, > not an Atom. ?It should be faster but use a bit more power. I'm prejudiced against Celerons... Renata's EeePC 900 has one and, besides the slowness, you can fry an egg on its back. I know this is probably a completely different animal, but for $100-200 more it's possible to get one with an actual Pentium or even Core 2 Duo (with some luck) inside. FZ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 21:05:32 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Dell "Days of Deals" has Ubuntu notebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Fabio FZero | I'm prejudiced against Celerons... Renata's EeePC 900 has one and, | besides the slowness, you can fry an egg on its back. I know this is | probably a completely different animal, but for $100-200 more it's | possible to get one with an actual Pentium or even Core 2 Duo (with | some luck) inside. It is important to realize that "Pentium*", "Celeron*", "XEON*", "Core*", etc. are brand names and not technologies. Typically, on the low end, you are not paying much for the brand name. On the high end, you usually are. I have no idea which Celeron M ULV 900MHz the EeePC 900 used. Maybe the 333 or the 353 (TDP 7W or 5W). In either case, the processor power requirements are quite low. Blame the heat on the design of the netbook (or other components). Basically, Celerons are usually slightly crippled versions of more middle-of-the-road chips. You need to decide if the crippling is, uhh, crippling. As an example, the very first set of Celeron chips were not generally a good choice (crippled Pentium II chips -- no L2 cache). The second set (300a) were a bargain and I used a pair for years. In the case of the Celeron M USV 743, what you seem to lose is: - VT (virtualization) - Intel Enhanced SpeedStep (You still get regular Intel Speedstep) - only 1M of cache For $110 more you can get an Intel Core 2 Solo SU3500 processor. What does that get you? - 3M cache instead of 1M - 100MHz faster clock - lower power (TDP 5.5W vs 10W) - Enhanced Speedstep - VT - Trusted Execution Technology (Is that of any use to us?) $110 feels like an expensive upgrade to a $429 system. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 22:04:41 2010 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:04:41 -0400 Subject: Dell "Days of Deals" has Ubuntu notebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 17:05, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Fabio FZero > > | I'm prejudiced against Celerons... Renata's EeePC 900 has one and, > | besides the slowness, you can fry an egg on its back. I know this is > | probably a completely different animal, but for $100-200 more it's > | possible to get one with an actual Pentium or even Core 2 Duo (with > | some luck) inside. > > It is important to realize that "Pentium*", "Celeron*", "XEON*", > "Core*", etc. are brand names and not technologies. > > Typically, on the low end, you are not paying much for the brand name. > On the high end, you usually are. > > I have no idea which Celeron M ULV 900MHz the EeePC 900 used. ?Maybe the > 333 or the 353 (TDP 7W or 5W). ?In either case, the processor power > requirements are quite low. ?Blame the heat on the design of the netbook > (or other components). > ? AFAIK, it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Celeron_microprocessors#.22Dothan-512.22_.28ultra-low-voltage.2C_90_nm.29 the 900 MHz Model. My current temperature, doing nothing, is 60C. Blame it on poor design or whatever. The atom-based eeePcs don't fry eggs like this one I have. -- Renata Rocha re-9siASaY8nq0dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 15 22:10:37 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:10:37 -0400 Subject: Dell "Days of Deals" has Ubuntu notebook In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100415221037.GA32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 01:26:29PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm not recommending, just noting. Promotion of products shipped with > Linux is really rare. > > > > They are offerning a Vostro V13 (13.3" display) notebook with Ubuntu 9.04 > for $429, $100 off the "normal" price. > > This is a step away from a netbook. The processor is a Celeron M USV 743, > not an Atom. It should be faster but use a bit more power. > > The processor does not support VT or Enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology > > > I find it hard to get specs for Dell stuff. There are some here: > > > The thing looks pretty reasonable. It's a Dell. What more do you need to know (to avoid buying it)? I highly suspect the 13" lenovo's on sale are much better machines: http://www.redflagdeals.com/deals/main.php/alldeals/comments/lenovo_15_20_off_thinkpad_edge_laptops_amd_neo_x2_based_from_55165_intel_cu/ -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 16 10:59:41 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 06:59:41 -0400 Subject: Ununseptium - New kid on the periodic table In-Reply-To: <2313bdbd7e4a89652545c68f7f1ddb00.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0lrcv4dJfSQg@public.gmane.org> References: <20100412183035.GL4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BC44E4D.2000208@rogers.com> <2313bdbd7e4a89652545c68f7f1ddb00.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> Message-ID: <4BC8431D.3@rogers.com> sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 10:04 AM, John Martin wrote: >> >>> Hey, that's unfair considering how difficult it would be to measure >>> the density of Dubya. -j >>> >> Compared to the silver tongue of Rhodes Scholar Clinton, he was >> certainly pretty dull, but I find the whole "how dumb is he" thing a >> tiresome form of ignorant comment from prejudiced provincials. >> >> > < turgid, but vaguely worthwhile political commentary deleted> > > ... uuuh, I just come back to this list after a couple of days. Wasn't > this about Element 117? Was Element 117 discovered by George W. Bush? > > Wow... (stares into space with wide-eyed disbelief). > > After his two terms in office, researchers concluded there had to be some unknown dense material and set about finding it. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 16 11:54:19 2010 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 07:54:19 -0400 Subject: Secure erase HDDs in Hong Kong (OpenBSD/Linux) Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I've got an OpenBSD machine in Hong Kong, where I would like to completely erase the hard drives in the machine - including the operating system. This will probably need to be done on some of my Ubuntu machines once they reach end of service also, so I thought I would ask if anyone has any experience with this. When I have physical access to the disks, I simply utilize DBAN, or boot up with the SystemrescueCD and dd=/dev/random to the entire disk. There are may posts about a Unix machine still able to operate if the underlying operating system disk goes offline, but it is difficult to find out whether there are some OS tweaks I need to perform first. I am assuming one would turn swap off, but then, from thence forth I am unsure. I am supposing that I might also be able to setup a disk image with DBAN, or SDD (Secure Data Disposal) on it, and set the boot loader to load that by default also. Thanks again! JohnM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 16 12:53:35 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:53:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: upcoming new editions of linux books Message-ID: just FYI, in a very short while, you can start looking for the following new editions of linux books at your favourite bookstore: http://www.informit.com/store/product.aspx?isbn=0768674271 http://www.informit.com/store/product.aspx?isbn=0137061099 and for better or worse :-), i was the technical editor for the latest edition of that first one, and a technical reviewer for that second one. make of that what you will. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 16 15:43:25 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:43:25 -0400 Subject: Secure erase HDDs in Hong Kong (OpenBSD/Linux) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BC8859D.2010309@dinamis.com> On 04/16/2010 07:54 AM, John Miles wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I've got an OpenBSD machine in Hong Kong, where I would like to > completely erase the hard drives in the machine - including the > operating system. [snip] > I am supposing that I might also be able to setup a disk image with > DBAN, or SDD (Secure Data Disposal) on it, and set the boot loader to > load that by default also. If the machine is at a colo facility, any chance of them hooking up a KVM over IP unit for you? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 16 16:47:36 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 12:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Secure erase HDDs in Hong Kong (OpenBSD/Linux) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: John Miles | I've got an OpenBSD machine in Hong Kong, where I would like to completely | erase the hard drives in the machine - including the operating system. The answer might be OpenBSD specific. And that community is probably more security-aware than ours. | This will probably need to be done on some of my Ubuntu machines once they | reach end of service also, so I thought I would ask if anyone has any | experience with this. No experience. | When I have physical access to the disks, I simply utilize DBAN, or boot up | with the SystemrescueCD and dd=/dev/random to the entire disk. Many think that a simple single overwrite is not a secure wipe. | There are may posts about a Unix machine still able to operate if the | underlying operating system disk goes offline, but it is difficult to find | out whether there are some OS tweaks I need to perform first. I am assuming | one would turn swap off, but then, from thence forth I am unsure. I would expect that you could build a ramdisk with selected portions of / and then "pivot" to the ramdisk. At that point you could unmount the disk partition for / and have at it. If this crashed, the system might be in some intermediate state that you could not recover from but was not securely wiped. | I am supposing that I might also be able to setup a disk image with DBAN, or | SDD (Secure Data Disposal) on it, and set the boot loader to load that by | default also. Seems likely. It also seems likely that, without a console, you'd never know if it worked. So Clifford's suggestion is worth looking into. Perhaps you could install a new bootable system with nothing that you care about (e.g. only throw-away ssh keys). Then use that as a secure base from which to wipe everything else. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 16 17:45:05 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:45:05 -0400 Subject: Secure erase HDDs in Hong Kong (OpenBSD/Linux) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:47 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Perhaps you could install a new bootable system with nothing that you care > about (e.g. only throw-away ssh keys). ?Then use that as a secure base > from which to wipe everything else. If the goal is to eliminate secret data from the system, that seems like a fine way to transform a possibly-intractable problem into one that you can solve. Thus... - Wipe *a* partition - Install something that's not secret that can do "wiping" onto that partition - Boot off that little island, and, from that island, wipe everything else. At that point, while the little partition may still be bootable, it doesn't contain any data that is of any value. There's still the problem that if the disk drives do smart things behind your back (e.g. - bad sector remapping), you may not be able to *actually* wipe the whole disk drive, and this remapping may even resist "attack" should you have direct physical access. But if it's resisting you successfully, it's quite likely to be challenging to would-be opponents :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 16 19:18:58 2010 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:18:58 -0400 Subject: Lone Coder 63: The Lone Coder with a Middle-class Dream Message-ID: <1271445538.6796.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> My latest blog entry, number 63. YMMV. KB --- "Certainly the financial problems were terrible, as well as being foreseen and avoidable, affecting countries around the world, including Canada. However, with the talk in the media about the recovering economy, it's important to put things into perspective. Exactly what kind of "recovery" are we talking about? Eleven years ago analysts were predicting numerous and wealthy jobs in Information Technology (A Lone Coder in a Big Pond, Lone Coder June 2006). In 2006, Statistics Canada reported that 2/3rds of Canadians between 24-54 couldn't find a position to match their skills (Life After the Bubble Burst, Lone Coder April 2006). Will Canadian IT workers finally receive a fair wage?..." http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_april_2010.html -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ken O. Burtch Phone: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 16 19:42:51 2010 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:42:51 -0400 Subject: Secure erase HDDs in Hong Kong (OpenBSD/Linux) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks everyone! The remote KVM wasn't an option unfortunately. I am going to experiment using the second OS option. Most of our OpenBSD machines have been converted, or replaced by Ubuntu machines, so this is a good task for an ongoing project. What I am going to do is: - securely wipe all but the OS disks - install a "temporary" Linux OS on the machine with my open VPN tunnels running on boot. - for this I am thinking that something like the SystemrescueCD (I could even run with the "docache" option). - probably best to just work with Ubuntu for now though. - use the "shred" application on all the files on the former OS drive - I could actually log/watch any particularly sensitive files be erased. - and finally dd the disks Interestingly, I just had a thought - perhaps I ought to just mail a customized Ubuntu CD, tell them to pop it in and boot up the machine with it. :) JohnM On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:47 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier > wrote: > > Perhaps you could install a new bootable system with nothing that you > care > > about (e.g. only throw-away ssh keys). Then use that as a secure base > > from which to wipe everything else. > > If the goal is to eliminate secret data from the system, that seems > like a fine way to transform a possibly-intractable problem into one > that you can solve. > > Thus... > > - Wipe *a* partition > - Install something that's not secret that can do "wiping" onto that > partition > - Boot off that little island, and, from that island, wipe everything else. > > At that point, while the little partition may still be bootable, it > doesn't contain any data that is of any value. > > There's still the problem that if the disk drives do smart things > behind your back (e.g. - bad sector remapping), you may not be able to > *actually* wipe the whole disk drive, and this remapping may even > resist "attack" should you have direct physical access. > > But if it's resisting you successfully, it's quite likely to be > challenging to would-be opponents :-). > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 16 20:14:39 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:14:39 -0400 Subject: bootable distro that plays restricted formats? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BC8C52F.3060005@utoronto.ca> On 04/15/2010 01:13 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: >> Digging through the manual a bit I found some info on supported formats: >> >> Audio: WAV, MIDI, MP3, OGG / VORBIS, MOD, XM, FLAC, SPEEX (and more) >> Video: AVI, MPEG, DIVX , WMV, with additional support for TV cards and >> Quicktime, RTSP and HTTP live streams >> >> YMMV of course. >> >> [1] >> > > That looks promising, I'll check it out :-) You can use a livecd image on a flash drive with persistence (so you could install codecs that you need): https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD/ Or build a custom one: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 17 12:45:26 2010 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 16:45:26 +0400 Subject: networking problem Message-ID: <4BC9AD66.7060107@gmail.com> The issue might be trivial for these who know well networking. I am not that one. I will explain first in a not detailed manner. If someone thinks that a solution may exists, I may privately send more details. I am at a university. Obviously, a big organization. We in our small group would like to have access to computers at work, our group only computers. An access from home, during evenings or weekends. We do a lot of computation. My interaction with the person who is the main admin for university goes hard. He is willing to help, but he is located in another outside office and lazy to come to our office or send someone. We have a connection from our office to a wire. A router is attached there. Our internal LAN works fine, we have internet, no problem with that. We wanted to have access to one single computer that is inside of our local LAN from outside, from the internet. We got a special IP for that, available form the internet. This is the point where I start to NOT understand things. DMZ is the first idea that comes. But router does not allow me to configure itself to allow a sort of strange configuration, where access to another entirely different subnetwork could exist. The router is D-Link DIR 120. The idea that I heard is : does not your router has a special outside connector where all traffic is just passing through, so I could just connect there the server? No, this router does not seem to have such a special outside connection. Do such routers exist? Which? Any ideas? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 17 14:06:43 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:06:43 -0400 Subject: networking problem In-Reply-To: <4BC9AD66.7060107-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BC9AD66.7060107@gmail.com> Message-ID: Use OpenVPN Far simpler than anything you are attempting. Dave On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > The issue might be trivial for these who know well networking. I am not that > one. > > I will explain first in a not detailed manner. If someone thinks that a > solution may exists, I may privately send more details. > > I am at a university. Obviously, a big organization. We in our small group > would like to have access to computers at work, our group only computers. An > access from home, during evenings or weekends. We do a lot of computation. > > My interaction with the person who is the main admin for university goes > hard. He is willing to help, but he is located in another outside office and > lazy to come to our office or send someone. > > We have a connection from our office to a wire. A router is attached there. > Our internal LAN works fine, we have internet, no problem with that. > > We wanted to have access to one single computer that is inside of our local > LAN from outside, from the internet. > > We got a special IP for that, available form the internet. This is the point > where I start to NOT understand things. > > DMZ is the first idea that comes. > > But router does not allow me to configure itself to allow a sort of strange > configuration, where access to another entirely different subnetwork could > exist. The router is D-Link DIR 120. > > The idea that I heard is : does not your router has a special outside > connector where all traffic is just passing through, so I could just connect > there the server? No, this router does not seem to have such a special > outside connection. > > Do such routers exist? Which? > > Any ideas? > > zb. > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 17 17:39:22 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 13:39:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: networking problem In-Reply-To: <4BC9AD66.7060107-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4BC9AD66.7060107@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Zbigniew Koziol | I will explain first in a not detailed manner. If someone thinks that a | solution may exists, I may privately send more details. [I'm not interested in private messages.] | We have a connection from our office to a wire. A router is attached there. | Our internal LAN works fine, we have internet, no problem with that. | | We wanted to have access to one single computer that is inside of our local | LAN from outside, from the internet. | | We got a special IP for that, available form the internet. This is the point | where I start to NOT understand things. It sounds like you are behind NAPT. The internet addresses nodes by IP addresses. Most are globally routable. A few are not. With NAPT, you can have a whole bunch of nodes hiding behind one gateway with only the gateway having a globally routable address. The gateway implements the NAPT. One important side-effect of NAPT is that (unless tricks are performed), all communications between the internet and the LAN must be initiated by the LAN side. This is probably your problem: your home computer wants to initiate a communication with a computer on your university LAN but the computer at the university has no globally routable address. There are many tricks to work around these NAPT problems: - STUN - NAT traversal - port forwarding - passive FTP - UPnP - IPv6 What IP addresses do your computers have on the LAN? Are they in the private address space? Here is a list from RFC 1918: 10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255 (10/8 prefix) 172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255 (172.16/12 prefix) 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255 (192.168/16 prefix) If so, that strongly suggests NAPT is your issue. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 18 01:51:25 2010 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:51:25 -0400 Subject: Looking for .ca Registrar Message-ID: <4BCA659D.2010803@alteeve.com> What's a good .ca registrar? Thanks, Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 18 01:56:15 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:56:15 -0400 Subject: Looking for .ca Registrar In-Reply-To: <4BCA659D.2010803-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4BCA659D.2010803@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 21:51, Lance F. Squire wrote: > What's a good .ca registrar? > > Thanks, > > Lance F. Squire http://www.domainsatcost.ca/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 18 02:16:13 2010 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:16:13 -0400 Subject: Looking for .ca Registrar In-Reply-To: References: <4BCA659D.2010803@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4BCA6B6D.4000604@utoronto.ca> On 17/04/10 09:56 PM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > http://www.domainsatcost.ca/ +1 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 18 03:37:05 2010 From: andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Heagle) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 23:37:05 -0400 Subject: Looking for .ca Registrar In-Reply-To: <4BCA659D.2010803-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4BCA659D.2010803@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <201004172337.05114.andrew@logaan.com> On Saturday 17 April 2010 21:51:25 Lance F. Squire wrote: > What's a good .ca registrar? > > Thanks, > > Lance F. Squire I got mine from http://www.10dollar.ca/ for $10 CDN. ($10.45 now). They even called me on the phone when my domain was about to expire. (They did send a bunch or reminder emails before hand). Andrew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 18 13:12:18 2010 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 09:12:18 -0400 Subject: networking problem In-Reply-To: ; from davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org on Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 10:06:43 -0400 References: <4BC9AD66.7060107@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100418131218.GB1476@localhost> On Sat Apr 17,2010 10:06:43 AM Dave Cramer wrote: > Use OpenVPN I second Dave's suggestion. Setting up a VPN is probably the best way to go. I think you'll have to set up a machine as a VPN gateway, as a replacement or in addition to the router. I found OpenVPN easy to set up and maintain for both Linux and Windows machines. You'll get the security of encryption as a bonus. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 18 13:42:11 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 09:42:11 -0400 Subject: Mississauga Ubuntu Users Meet, 4/20/2010, 7:00 pm Message-ID: The Mississauga Ubuntu Users are meeting up on Tuesday. For all that are interested, the details are below. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 6:55 PM Subject: [mumu-ca] Meet, 4/20/2010, 7:00 pm To: mumu-ca-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org Reminder from: *mumu-ca Yahoo! Group * Title: Meet Date: Tuesday April 20, 2010 Time: 7:00 pm - 10:00 pm Repeats: This event repeats every month on the third Tuesday. Location: Mulligan's Pub and Grill Street: 2458 Dundas Street West City State Zip: Mississauga Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright ? 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy __._,_.___ Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web(Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest| Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 18 15:11:29 2010 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 11:11:29 -0400 Subject: Looking for .ca Registrar In-Reply-To: <4BCA659D.2010803-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4BCA659D.2010803@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4BCB2121.8070806@alteeve.com> Thanks for the reply(s) guys! Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 18 15:37:06 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 11:37:06 -0400 Subject: networking problem In-Reply-To: <20100418131218.GB1476@localhost> References: <4BC9AD66.7060107@gmail.com> <20100418131218.GB1476@localhost> Message-ID: I agree with Dave as well, as you open alot of Security concerns if you take the port forwarding route. The most secure option is OpenVPN. It's not too hard to setup and there are alot of how-to's if you google OpenVPN and your choice of linux operating system. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 19 01:30:41 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 21:30:41 -0400 Subject: Wifi connectivity redux Message-ID: <20100419013041.GB8000@waltdnes.org> It's so easy once you know how. I did some web surfing today on my netbook at the Toronto Public Library (North York Centre). The main problem turned out to be that I had to drop my firewall for a few seconds during authentication, then I could bring it back up. There is an initial redirect to a EULA webpage of sorts, in the 10.x.x.x range, which I have blocked. Anyhow, for the benefit of anyone else trying to do the same, here is my successful setup. I have an ath5k-driven Wifi chip, and ath5k is built as a module. It is *NOT* loaded at bootup. wpa_supplicant is the client software I use (command-line only). /etc/conf.d/net =============== config_eth0="192.168.123.249 broadcast 192.168.123.255 netmask 255.255.255.248 mtu 1452" routes_eth0=( "default via 192.168.123.254 metric 2" "192.168.123.248/29 via 192.168.123.254 metric 0" ) modules=( "wpa_supplicant" ) config_wlan0=( "null" ) wpa_supplicant_wlan0="-Dwext" wpa_timeout_wlan0=15 I do *NOT* have /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf This causes wpa_supplicant to *NOT* load. This is deliberate. /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf.open is the file name I use for open access points... /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf.open ============================= ctrl_interface=/var/run/wpa_supplicant # Connect to an open AP network={ ssid="Toronto Public Library" key_mgmt=NONE priority=9 } network={ key_mgmt=NONE priority=-9 } And finally, a script ~/bin/wi_open that ties it all together. Remember to put appropriate lines in /etc/sudoers ~/bin/wi_open ============= #!/bin/bash sudo /sbin/modprobe ath5k sudo /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 restart sudo /sbin/ifconfig wlan0 up sudo /sbin/iwconfig wlan0 essid any channel auto sudo /usr/sbin/wpa_supplicant -B -iwlan0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf.open sudo /sbin/dhcpcd wlan0 If you have a different chip, you'll need a different module. Having gotten that to work, my next adventure will be getting the netbook to work with a wireless router in WPA mode. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 19 02:57:34 2010 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 22:57:34 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [PyGTA Announce] Using XMPP/Jabber from Python In-Reply-To: <4BCBC001.6050509-0mgUzbSp9NN54TAoqtyWWQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4BCBC001.6050509@vrplumber.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mike C. Fletcher Date: Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 10:29 PM Subject: [PyGTA Announce] Using XMPP/Jabber from Python To: PyGTA Announce We'll have our regular PyGTA meeting at Linux Caffe on Tuesday the 20th at Linux Caffe.? Topic this month is using Jabber/XMPP from Python by Myles Braithewaite. Details on the web-site: ??? http://pygta.org/2010-04/jabber/ Apologies for the lateness of the reminder. Have fun, Mike -- ________________________________________________ Mike C. Fletcher Designer, VR Plumber, Coder http://www.vrplumber.com http://blog.vrplumber.com _______________________________________________ PyGTA-Announce mailing list PyGTA-Announce-k7cJUOGo0w1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org http://www.engcorp.com/mailman/listinfo/pygta-announce -- Myles Braithwaite http://mylesbraithwaite.com | me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 19 12:15:07 2010 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: SPF and caching DNS Message-ID: <1271679307.6644.21.camel@cougar-hardy> Greetings, Saturday, after an outage of the DNS provided by my ISP, I installed bind9. It is set up as a caching server, that is to say I did not define any domains. The next emails I sent were rejected for violation of SPF rules. For now, I have turned off SPF, but I would like to be able to turn it on again. I wonder what I did wrong. First of all, I thought that my firewall should hide my local DNS entirely from the internet, however horribly I misconfigured the local DNS. Suggestions welcome. Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 19 16:59:27 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:59:27 -0400 Subject: Linux In The Park. Message-ID: Just to note, I was talking to David Patrick at Linuxcaffe earlier today and he is organizing another Linux In The Park in Bickford Park (across the street from Linuxcaffe) for May 1st.... David will be providing some goodies for this event. More details to follow. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 19 20:48:28 2010 From: moptop99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:48:28 -0400 Subject: Linux In The Park. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to note, I was talking to David Patrick at Linuxcaffe earlier > today and he is organizing another Linux In The Park in Bickford Park > (across the street from Linuxcaffe) for May 1st.... David will be > providing some goodies for this event. > > More details to follow. > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > cf. the listing on the opens ource toronto calendar, http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/nlip1ngtid4qa4srg1517grb3k%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 19 19:14:50 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:14:50 -0400 Subject: Linux In The Park. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 19 April 2010 12:59, Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to note, I was talking to David Patrick at Linuxcaffe earlier > today and he is organizing another Linux In The Park in Bickford Park > (across the street from Linuxcaffe) for May 1st.... David will be > providing some goodies for this event. Geez, you did this to me last year as well. Penguicon is April 30 - May 2. Have fun at Linux in the Park, I'll be in Detroit. Next year, try to not be on the same weekend as Penguicon? Thanks. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 20 02:36:41 2010 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 02:36:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Wifi connectivity redux References: <20100419013041.GB8000@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Thanks for the sharing. On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 21:30:41 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > There is > an initial redirect to a EULA webpage of sorts, in the 10.x.x.x range, How do you resolve the server address of the EULA webpage? Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 20 02:41:21 2010 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 02:41:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Wifi connectivity redux References: <20100419013041.GB8000@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 21:30:41 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I do *NOT* have /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf This causes wpa_supplicant to > *NOT* load. This is deliberate. /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf.open is the > file name I use for open access points... I've always used GUI and never descended to wpa_supplicant level. So please allow a noob question -- how do you start your wireless network? thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 20 21:01:35 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 17:01:35 -0400 Subject: OT: Who is asking Google to remove data / more data? Message-ID: Google has posted a page with a listing of where they are getting government requests for additional data and where they are getting requests to remove data: http://www.google.com/governmentrequests/ Now, China seems to be a special case as Google notes that censorship request are considered state secrets, so Google can not make that data available at present... Among the nations Google does make the government requests available for, I was surprised at the "leader" in this area, both for additional data and for removal requests, the world leader is : Brazil ... I would have expected ... well, one of several other nations with a larger population and/or reputations for being more ... paranoid. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 20 21:21:43 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 17:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Who is asking Google to remove data / more data? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Colin McGregor | I was surprised at the "leader" in | this area, both for additional data and for removal requests, the | world leader is : Brazil ... I would have expected ... well, one of | several other nations with a larger population and/or reputations for | being more ... paranoid. 1 Brazil, population: 192M, 291 requests 2 Germany, population: 82M, 188 requests 3 India, population: 1,140M, 142 requests 4 United States, population: 307M, 123 requests ... 10 Australia, population 21M, 17 requests 11 Canada, population: 33M, 16 requests I'm not sure that the population is a good predictor, but Brazil does have a fairly large population. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 20 23:24:00 2010 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 19:24:00 -0400 Subject: Wifi connectivity redux In-Reply-To: References: <20100419013041.GB8000@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20100420232400.GA17200@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 02:36:41AM +0000, Antonio T. Sun wrote > How do you resolve the server address of the EULA webpage? The command "sudo /sbin/dhcpcd wlan0" starts dhcpd, which adds a "search" entry to your /etc/resolv.conf. This allows your computer to look up stuff in your "local domain", i.e. the wifi hotspot. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 02:41:21AM +0000, Antonio T. Sun wrote > I've always used GUI and never descended to wpa_supplicant level. So > please allow a noob question -- how do you start your wireless > network? That's what my ~/bin/wi_open script does... sudo /sbin/modprobe ath5k - loads the driver module for the Wifi chipset (in my case, an Atheros; different chipsets will have different drivers)) sudo /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 restart - stops (if running) and then (re)starts wlan0 sudo /sbin/ifconfig wlan0 up sudo /sbin/iwconfig wlan0 essid any channel auto - brings up and sets parameters for wlan0 sudo /usr/sbin/wpa_supplicant -B -iwlan0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf.open - starts wpa_supplicant -B (background, i.e. daemon mode) -iwlan0 (interface wlan0) -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf.open (use the specified config file) sudo /sbin/dhcpcd wlan0 - starts the dhcpd daemon to negotiate for an IP address and add any necessary lines to your /etc/resolve.conf -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 00:14:53 2010 From: rafael.carneiro-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rafael Carneiro) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 20:14:53 -0400 Subject: OT: Who is asking Google to remove data / more data? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Being a Brazilian and having lived there for about 25 years I have to say that I am not at all surprised by this. The government does pressure media whenever a nerve is touched. We've seen cases where politicians have newspapers stop publishing news related to corruption, which sounds like censorship to me but that didn't stop the supreme court from ruling that it was ok. >From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Brazil "On July 30, 2009, Fernando Sarney, son of former President and Senator Jos? Sarney, managed to avoid that the newspaper *O Estado de S. Paulo * publishes stories about a criminal investigation conducted by the Federal Police against him. He obtained the court decision favorable to him in the Federal District Court of Justice.[9]Later that year, the Supreme Federal Court filed a suit by the newspaper against the Federal District Court of Justice, thus maintaining the censorship.[10]The NGO Reporters Without Borders called the Supreme Court decision "incomprehensible" and "dangerous." Interesting, while trying to find english written stuff about it, I found out that Counter-Strike was banned for being extremely violent in 2008. That was lifted in 2009. Good thing I stopped playing it long before that! =D Rafael On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 5:21 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Colin McGregor > > | I was surprised at the "leader" in > | this area, both for additional data and for removal requests, the > | world leader is : Brazil ... I would have expected ... well, one of > | several other nations with a larger population and/or reputations for > | being more ... paranoid. > > 1 Brazil, population: 192M, 291 requests > 2 Germany, population: 82M, 188 requests > 3 India, population: 1,140M, 142 requests > 4 United States, population: 307M, 123 requests > ... > 10 Australia, population 21M, 17 requests > 11 Canada, population: 33M, 16 requests > > I'm not sure that the population is a good predictor, but Brazil does > have a fairly large population. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 10:41:32 2010 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 06:41:32 -0400 Subject: OT: Who is asking Google to remove data / more data? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 17:21, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm not sure that the population is a good predictor, but Brazil does > have a fairly large population. The problem in Brazil is not only politics. Everyone with money enough to afford a good lawyer can ask to remove something from Google (orkut, youtube) A famous case was a brazilian model, Daniela Cicarelli, who had sex on the beach and some paparazzi put it on youtube. She sued youtube and the video had to be removed (but I'm pretty sure you can find it everywhere). It's very common for celebrities at least try to sue Orkut for fake profiles, stuff like that. There are laws in Brazil, still from the dictatorship, that go totally against the "freedom of speech" concept. So, yep, there is some censorship, based in old laws. -- Renata Rocha re-9siASaY8nq0dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 12:34:59 2010 From: slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:34:59 +0200 Subject: OT: Who is asking Google to remove data / more data? In-Reply-To: (Renata Rocha's message of "Wed\, 21 Apr 2010 06\:41\:32 -0400") References: Message-ID: <87y6gh7zm4.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Renata Rocha a ?crit profondement: | On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 17:21, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | | > I'm not sure that the population is a good predictor, but Brazil does | > have a fairly large population. | | The problem in Brazil is not only politics. Everyone with money enough | to afford a good lawyer can ask to remove something from Google | (orkut, youtube) | | A famous case was a brazilian model, Daniela Cicarelli, who had sex on | the beach and some paparazzi put it on youtube. She sued youtube and | the video had to be removed (but I'm pretty sure you can find it | everywhere). | As I remember the incident, which was even probably a publicity stunt gone wrong, the "sex" actually took place in the water off the coast of Andalouse de Cadiz, in Spain, and Daniela wan't overly concerned about it although she did join with her beau in demanding $100k** a day that the clip was on display on YouTube. Hey, money is Money, right? But on the other hand, for an animatrice and model, there's no such thing as "Bad Publicity". The beau on the other hand was Not Amused. He was the high powered Banker Renato (Tato) Malzoni.and he is the one who really pushed the suit in the courts. Telefonica SA (Spain) and Telecom SA (Brazil) did block You tube for a while if I remember correctly. -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 14:06:17 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:06:17 -0400 Subject: Firefox slowdown during big IO ops Message-ID: <20100421140617.GA17856@yam.witteman.ca> I have noticed this before, but only started to really wonder about it recently. During big IO operations, I find that Firefox slows down or becomes unresponsive. Other applications are running at reduced speed, but only very slightly, and X shows no ill effects at all - mouse tracking is fast, desktop switching is fast, but Firefox takes a nap. The IO in question is something like a mv of a 1.5Gb folder from one partition to another. Can anyone explain why this is happening? CPU Quad Core 2 (lightly loaded during the IO process) 2Gb RAM (hardly touched by the IO process) Thanks! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 14:12:23 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:12:23 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 10.04 Release Party. Message-ID: Just to note, there will be a party for the release of Ubuntu 10.04 LTS ("Lucid Lynx") Linux. Being a LTS (Long Term Support) release, the Ubuntu people are promising security fixes and support until April 2015, something to celebrate if you build servers. Also with Ubuntu 10.04 comes better social media integration for the desktop user. So, what ever type of Linux user you are, there is something here to celebrate... Or if you just need an excuse to visit a local restaurant on a Thursday evening, well, here it is: ------------------------------------------------------------------ Toronto Canada Ubuntu 10.04 Release Party April 29, 2010 - 5:00 PM to 11:00 PM Location: Alio Restaurant, 108 Dundas West Toronto, Canada Informal Lucid release party Please confirm by email to: geniibuntu-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org ------------------------------------------------------------------ You can see more information about the above event here: http://fossevents.org/2010/04/12/10-04-release-party/ More information about Ubuntu can be seen here: http://www.ubuntu.com/ Also, GTALug maintains a list of upcoming free software related events here: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Events -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 14:15:29 2010 From: slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:15:29 +0200 Subject: Phone interoperability Europe-Canada Message-ID: <87iq7khoxq.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> This request is for landline telephones and not cellular telephones ("mobiles" or "handys" to most europeans) where one only has to juggle SIM Cards - supposing they have a quad band telephone. But is it possible that a European Land Line telephone set might work when connected to a Canadian phone service provider please? I wasn't able to find anything on the net -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 14:23:54 2010 From: slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:23:54 +0200 Subject: Firefox slowdown during big IO ops In-Reply-To: <20100421140617.GA17856-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> (William O'Higgins Witteman's message of "Wed\, 21 Apr 2010 10\:06\:17 -0400") References: <20100421140617.GA17856@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <87bpdchojp.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> "William O'Higgins Witteman" a ?crit profondement: | I have noticed this before, but only started to really wonder about it | recently. During big IO operations, I find that Firefox slows down or | becomes unresponsive. Other applications are running at reduced speed, | but only very slightly, and X shows no ill effects at all - mouse | tracking is fast, desktop switching is fast, but Firefox takes a nap. | | The IO in question is something like a mv of a 1.5Gb folder from one | partition to another. | | Can anyone explain why this is happening? | | CPU Quad Core 2 (lightly loaded during the IO process) | 2Gb RAM (hardly touched by the IO process) | | Thanks! Coincidentally the same happens with Opera I'd always put it down to my Dinosaur 10 year old system though -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 14:28:35 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:28:35 -0400 Subject: Phone interoperability Europe-Canada In-Reply-To: <87iq7khoxq.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK9lY98wAZ3ymN+n+qDOcVZb@public.gmane.org> References: <87iq7khoxq.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Slack Rat wrote: > This request is for landline telephones and not cellular telephones > ("mobiles" or "handys" to most europeans) where one only has to juggle > SIM Cards - supposing they have a quad band telephone. > > But is it possible that a European Land Line telephone set might work > when connected to a Canadian phone service provider please? > > I wasn't able to find anything on the net I have seen adapters for sale designed to allow Canadian land line phones to plug in to the various sorts of European phone jacks (across Europe there are several different phone jack designs used...). So, I would assume the reverse to be true, if you could find the right sort of adapter you could plug a European phone into a Canadian wall jack. Where you could find such an adapter is a very different question, and I have no idea as to the answer there. Further, unless the phone has some special sentimental value, I don't quite see the point given how inexpensive phones are here... Colin McGregor > -- > Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 15:09:41 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 11:09:41 -0400 Subject: Phone interoperability Europe-Canada In-Reply-To: <87iq7khoxq.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK9lY98wAZ3ymN+n+qDOcVZb@public.gmane.org> References: <87iq7khoxq.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: <20100421150941.GB32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 04:15:29PM +0200, Slack Rat wrote: > This request is for landline telephones and not cellular telephones > ("mobiles" or "handys" to most europeans) where one only has to juggle > SIM Cards - supposing they have a quad band telephone. > > But is it possible that a European Land Line telephone set might work > when connected to a Canadian phone service provider please? > > I wasn't able to find anything on the net Well given there are modems that work almost everywhere in the world, I don't see why it shouldn't be possible, given the right plug adapter. It may however not be legal. Some countries have strict regulations on what can and can not be connected to a phone line (Australia is completely paranoid for example, and the UK is up there too). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 15:31:09 2010 From: lists-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw at public.gmane.org (Matt London) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 11:31:09 -0400 Subject: Phone interoperability Europe-Canada In-Reply-To: <20100421150941.GB32022-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <87iq7khoxq.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> <20100421150941.GB32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BCF1A3D.5070303@knm.org.uk> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 04:15:29PM +0200, Slack Rat wrote: > >> This request is for landline telephones and not cellular telephones >> ("mobiles" or "handys" to most europeans) where one only has to juggle >> SIM Cards - supposing they have a quad band telephone. >> >> But is it possible that a European Land Line telephone set might work >> when connected to a Canadian phone service provider please? >> >> I wasn't able to find anything on the net >> > > Well given there are modems that work almost everywhere in the world, > I don't see why it shouldn't be possible, given the right plug adapter. > It may however not be legal. Some countries have strict regulations on > what can and can not be connected to a phone line (Australia is completely > paranoid for example, and the UK is up there too). > > I was going to say much the same thing. Technically I don't think there should be any issue using a phone in another country, with the exception of the connector used to plug it into the wall. As Lennart mentioned, some countries are particularly picky - in the UK for example, BT won't allow you to connect a device to their network if it's not BABT approved (there'll be a logo on the bottom of the phone if it is). I remember getting a multi-country modem at one point which had a little booklet attached to the cable with all the various telecoms approvals it had. The only other thing I can think of that might cause issue are ring voltages, which do vary from place to place - but chances are if you can plug it into a VoIP ATA and have it ring, you'll be good. This is more the case in the terms of the old rotary phones where the ringer is a real bell and takes a decent amount of power to drive the ringer. In the UK phones carry a Ringer Equivalence Number (REN), and BT don't support driving more than 4 REN on a single line. -- Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 16:25:58 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:25:58 -0400 Subject: Phone interoperability Europe-Canada In-Reply-To: <4BCF1A3D.5070303-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw@public.gmane.org> References: <87iq7khoxq.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> <20100421150941.GB32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BCF1A3D.5070303@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: <20100421162558.GC32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 11:31:09AM -0400, Matt London wrote: > I was going to say much the same thing. Technically I don't think there > should be any issue using a phone in another country, with the exception > of the connector used to plug it into the wall. > > As Lennart mentioned, some countries are particularly picky - in the UK > for example, BT won't allow you to connect a device to their network if > it's not BABT approved (there'll be a logo on the bottom of the phone if > it is). I remember getting a multi-country modem at one point which had > a little booklet attached to the cable with all the various telecoms > approvals it had. Australia's certifications seem to require almost background radiation level noise limits on telephone equipment. Getting things certified is very hard and requires very careful design. > The only other thing I can think of that might cause issue are ring > voltages, which do vary from place to place - but chances are if you can > plug it into a VoIP ATA and have it ring, you'll be good. This is more > the case in the terms of the old rotary phones where the ringer is a > real bell and takes a decent amount of power to drive the ringer. In the > UK phones carry a Ringer Equivalence Number (REN), and BT don't support > driving more than 4 REN on a single line. Canada has such ratings too. In canada the total of the ratings of the phones can not exceed 100. That is supposed to be about 5 phones. Some cheap crap phones had ratings of 30 to 40 in some cases, while much better phones are often down around 5 or 10. The USA has a REN limit of 5. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 17:30:41 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:30:41 -0400 Subject: Laptop Repair Recommendation Message-ID: <20100421173041.GA24289@yam.witteman.ca> If you had a 3 year old laptop that started to make bad noises, but didn't want to fix it yourself, who would you take it too in downtown Toronto? (I have already recommended replacement - 3 year old Dell subcompact notebooks can't be expected to last very long at the best of times, but there may not be a budget for replacement right now.) Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 17:48:30 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:48:30 -0400 Subject: Laptop Repair Recommendation In-Reply-To: <20100421173041.GA24289-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100421173041.GA24289@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100421174830.GD32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 01:30:41PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > If you had a 3 year old laptop that started to make bad noises, but > didn't want to fix it yourself, who would you take it too in downtown > Toronto? > > (I have already recommended replacement - 3 year old Dell subcompact > notebooks can't be expected to last very long at the best of times, but > there may not be a budget for replacement right now.) If it is making bad noises, it is likely the cpu fan is full of dust. I have cleaned my wife's laptop frequently to quiet it down. When the heatsink and fan get full of dust, the airflow is blocked, and the temperature goes up, so the fan spins faster to try and cool it and gets noisier. On some laptops this is a trivial 2 minute job (asus, ibm, lenovo typically). On others it takes an hour to disassemble the machine to get at the fan and heatsink (compaq, hp, emachines, for example). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 19:35:30 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Laptop Repair Recommendation In-Reply-To: <20100421174830.GD32022-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100421173041.GA24289@yam.witteman.ca> <20100421174830.GD32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 01:30:41PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: | > If you had a 3 year old laptop that started to make bad noises, but | > didn't want to fix it yourself, who would you take it too in downtown | > Toronto? | I have cleaned my wife's laptop frequently to quiet it down. Sounds like the answer is: take it to Lennart :-) Unfortunately he isn't in downtown Toronto. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 19:55:37 2010 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:55:37 -0400 Subject: Racks for Sale Message-ID: <02b801cae18c$9d9c2ed0$d8d48c70$@com> I have a buddy who owns a hosting business. They are selling 48, 42u racks (just the racks and no PSUs or doors). They are located on front street. Prices range depending on quantity (less than $100 per rack). If anyone is interested please let me know. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 19:57:50 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:57:50 -0400 Subject: Laptop Repair Recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <20100421173041.GA24289@yam.witteman.ca> <20100421174830.GD32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100421195750.GE32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 03:35:30PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 01:30:41PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > | > If you had a 3 year old laptop that started to make bad noises, but > | > didn't want to fix it yourself, who would you take it too in downtown > | > Toronto? > > | I have cleaned my wife's laptop frequently to quiet it down. > > Sounds like the answer is: take it to Lennart :-) > Unfortunately he isn't in downtown Toronto. I also don't want to look at Dell's. It might make people think they are OK to buy if you help them with them. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 20:53:36 2010 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:53:36 -0400 Subject: OT: Who is asking Google to remove data / more data? In-Reply-To: <87y6gh7zm4.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK9lY98wAZ3ymN+n+qDOcVZb@public.gmane.org> References: <87y6gh7zm4.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 08:34, Slack Rat wrote: > As I remember the incident, which was even probably a publicity stunt > gone wrong, the "sex" actually took place in the water off the coast of > Andalouse de Cadiz, in Spain, and Daniela wan't overly concerned > about it although she did join with her beau in demanding $100k** a day > that the clip was on display on YouTube. You're absolutely right. > Hey, money is Money, right? > > But on the other hand, for an animatrice and model, there's no such > thing as "Bad Publicity". As far as I remember, in the beginning she lost some modeling contracts - no good explanations was given, but I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the "youtube sex scandal". Nothing happened with her boyfriend's business, though. Brazil is a macho, conservative society. > The beau on the other hand was Not Amused. He was the high powered > Banker Renato (Tato) Malzoni.and he is the one who really pushed the > suit in the courts. This is curious, because AFAIK his businesses were not affected, but she lost some good contracts just for having some fun on the beach. > Telefonica SA (Spain) and Telecom SA (Brazil) did block You tube for a > while if I remember correctly. Yep, for no more than a couple of days. I think Net Virtua (Cable) blocked youtube also. But I think it was a simple thing to bypass. Sincerely, I don't remember it very well. If they had blocked some newspaper I'd certainly know everything about it - I'm obsessed about news. -- Renata Rocha http://renata.org http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 21:54:19 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:54:19 -0400 Subject: Laptop Repair Recommendation In-Reply-To: <20100421195750.GE32022-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100421173041.GA24289@yam.witteman.ca> <20100421174830.GD32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100421195750.GE32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 15:57, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I also don't want to look at Dell's. ?It might make people think they > are OK to buy if you help them with them. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- I did Tech Support for Dell back in 2004 in Ottawa. I hate Dell computers, I have nothing against Americans...unless they own a Dell. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 21 22:34:08 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 18:34:08 -0400 Subject: Laptop Repair Recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <20100421173041.GA24289@yam.witteman.ca> <20100421174830.GD32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100421195750.GE32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100421223408.GF32022@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 05:54:19PM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 15:57, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > I also don't want to look at Dell's. ?It might make people think they > > are OK to buy if you help them with them. > > > > -- > > Len Sorensen > > -- > > I did Tech Support for Dell back in 2004 in Ottawa. I hate Dell > computers, I have nothing against Americans...unless they own a Dell. That does sound very painful. I will buy stuff from Dell (like nice monitors and other gadgets). I will not buy a computer from them. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 22 04:18:11 2010 From: slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 06:18:11 +0200 Subject: OT: Who is asking Google to remove data / more data? In-Reply-To: (Renata Rocha's message of "Wed\, 21 Apr 2010 16\:53\:36 -0400") References: <87y6gh7zm4.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: <877ho0glx8.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Renata Rocha a ?crit profondement: | On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 08:34, Slack Rat wrote: | | > As I remember the incident, which was even probably a publicity stunt | > gone wrong, the "sex" actually took place in the water off the coast of | > Andalouse de Cadiz, in Spain, and Daniela wan't overly concerned | > about it although she did join with her beau in demanding $100k** a day | > that the clip was on display on YouTube. | | You're absolutely right. | | > Hey, money is Money, right? | > | > But on the other hand, for an animatrice and model, there's no such | > thing as "Bad Publicity". | | As far as I remember, in the beginning she lost some modeling | contracts - no good explanations was given, but I'm pretty sure it has | something to do with the "youtube sex scandal". Nothing happened with | her boyfriend's business, though. Brazil is a macho, conservative | society. | | > The beau on the other hand was Not Amused. He was the high powered | > Banker Renato (Tato) Malzoni.and he is the one who really pushed the | > suit in the courts. | | This is curious, because AFAIK his businesses were not affected, but | she lost some good contracts just for having some fun on the beach. | | > Telefonica SA (Spain) and Telecom SA (Brazil) did block You tube for a | > while if I remember correctly. | | Yep, for no more than a couple of days. I think Net Virtua (Cable) | blocked youtube also. But I think it was a simple thing to bypass. | Sincerely, I don't remember it very well. If they had blocked some | newspaper I'd certainly know everything about it - I'm obsessed about | news. | | -- | Renata Rocha | http://renata.org | http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha Yuu seem to have the gist of the matter, Renata, and in fact I usually ignore such scandal sheet fodder. But a until recently, I published a Cycling Magazine on the Internet, and in 2004 the three week Italian National Bike Race, the Giro d'Italia (Tour of Italy), was won by one Damiano Cunego who became an instant National Celebrity. Daniella Cicarelli, it seems is also interested in cycling, as she has a brother who practices the sport and at least for a while, Daniella and Damiano were what you might call "A Number" and they are no strangers today. They were seen together at clubs and and in a box at an Milan-Inter foorball (soccer) game and several other noteworthy events. Interestingly, they share the same birthday, September 17 although Danuela is 3 years older than Damiano. But continuing, Daniela was often pictured carrying a camera and I asked her if I could get her permission to use a few of her personal snapshots in my magazine if they had a cycling flavour. She said Certainly, no problem, and emailed me scads.And for a while it worked fine until MTV dug up some fine print in Daniella's contract which stipulated that they (MTV, Daniella's Brasilian TV.Station-Employer) had exclusive rights to publish any and all pictures which Daniella took - public or private. Spoilsports But as far as I'm concerned, and despite the occasional Faux Pas, such as becoming engaged for a while to some guy called Ronaldo who derives his living from kicking a ball around a field, she is one Classy lady and amy muckraking journalist scum who tries to compare Daniella to the likes of a couple of American Tarts who exhibit their genitals in public had better steer clear of me! And as late as last year she was on hand when Damiano won the Third stage of the Italian Race, Settimana Coppi & Bartali (Coppi and Bartali Week) and took over as Race Leader. In my books she's a Fine Lady http://azurservers.com:6080/tlug/Daniella_Cicarelli.jpg With apologies for leading the thread astray, but I just got wound up at all the Hoopla surrounding the beach incident three years ago. -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 22 05:41:08 2010 From: slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 07:41:08 +0200 Subject: Canadian Connectivity - Temporary Message-ID: <8739yogi2z.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> I shall be leaving France tomorrow for Canada and zero'img my nameservers around 0300 Zulu-GMT tomorrow right after the 0440 daily localtime (CEST - ZULU*2 - France) backups finish running. Hopefully though, until I can get myself reconnected with a fixed IP I can use TFN via telnet and I also have a shell account with freeshell/sdf.lonestar But does anyone know if in Canada, Internet Cafes generally permit outbound telnet connnections which is probably my best? -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 22 10:03:19 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 06:03:19 -0400 Subject: Canadian Connectivity - Temporary In-Reply-To: <8739yogi2z.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK9lY98wAZ3ymN+n+qDOcVZb@public.gmane.org> References: <8739yogi2z.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 01:41, Slack Rat wrote: > I shall be leaving France tomorrow for Canada and zero'img my > nameservers around 0300 Zulu-GMT tomorrow right after the 0440 daily > localtime (CEST - ZULU*2 - France) backups finish running. > > Hopefully though, until I can get myself reconnected with a fixed IP I > can use TFN via telnet and I also have a shell account with > freeshell/sdf.lonestar > > But does anyone know if in Canada, Internet Cafes generally permit > outbound telnet connnections which is probably my best? > > -- > Slackrat When MUDs were the big thing, I used to Telnet to them from 'Net Cafes, I am assuming that it's still possible. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 22 12:59:24 2010 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Digimer) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 08:59:24 -0400 Subject: Canadian Connectivity - Temporary In-Reply-To: <8739yogi2z.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK9lY98wAZ3ymN+n+qDOcVZb@public.gmane.org> References: <8739yogi2z.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: <4BD0482C.3050206@alteeve.com> On 10-04-22 01:41 AM, Slack Rat wrote: > I shall be leaving France tomorrow for Canada and zero'img my > nameservers around 0300 Zulu-GMT tomorrow right after the 0440 daily > localtime (CEST - ZULU*2 - France) backups finish running. > > Hopefully though, until I can get myself reconnected with a fixed IP I > can use TFN via telnet and I also have a shell account with > freeshell/sdf.lonestar > > But does anyone know if in Canada, Internet Cafes generally permit > outbound telnet connnections which is probably my best? I ssh out from server hot spots and I've never seen it blocked. I can't see of a reason why they would block it, to be honest. I guess it just comes down to the given cafe/hot spot owner. -- Digimer E-Mail: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org AN!Whitepapers: http://alteeve.com Node Assassin: http://nodeassassin.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 22 15:51:14 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 11:51:14 -0400 Subject: Fwd: TASK April Event / SecTor 2010 Registration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For those interested in IT security... Colin McGregor ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: TASK Steering Committee Date: Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:19 AM Subject: TASK April Event / SecTor 2010 Registration ================================================ April TASK Meeting Health Sciences Building, 155 College Street, HS 610 28 April 2010, ?6:00 PM - 9:00 PM ================================================ Presentation 0.5 - Conference Overview Robert Beggs, DigitalDefence The Trilateral Security Conference (Calgary) and the Canadian Technical Security Conference (Cornwall) will be reviewed. ?The Trilateral Conference highlighted security in Western Canada, and some of the special issues in this energy-focused market. ?The CTSC was an annual conference focused on technical security - "bugs", and "bug sweeping". Presentation 1 - Covert Use of Data Resources Robert Beggs, DigitalDefence A data system (laptop, iPhone) can not only be hacked, but it can be used to conduct covert surveillance on a target. ?Keyloggers and compromised cameras and microphones extend surveillance capabilities. This talk will provide an overview and practical examples on how systems are compromised, as well as how to rapidly detect and respond to the compromise. Presentation 2 - An Examination of Two Recent Attacks + "Hacking" Certifications Terry Cutler, Security Researcher The Aurora breach that targeted Google and 34 other companies, and the kneber botnet variant that managed to infiltrate nearly 2,500 corporate networks, are targeted attacks. ?During the first half of our talks, we will use cutting-edge tools such as CORE IMPACT to demonstrate how there worked (and why they were so ?effective), and how to detect and mitigate their effects. The attack will also demonstrate getting access to a corporate using a spear-phishing attack via Linkedin. During the second half of the talk, we'll switch gears to talk about the practice of certifying ethical hackers/penetration testers. ?Which certification is "the best one", and how is the market accepting these certifications? ?Come prepared for a lively discussion! ================================================ The Security Education Conference in Toronto, SecTor 2010 early bird registration is open! ?Pricing goes up from $499 to $750 in May, so be sure to buy your tickets now! ?Use TASK member discount code IND-TASK-2010 to save an additional 10%. ?There will never be a higher value in training than buying your ticket now. ?New this year is a management track in addition to the 3 deeply technical tracks SecTor has become known for. ?With content for everyone, its the event you won't want to miss. ?Go to http://www.sector.ca to register. ================================================ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 22 16:50:02 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 12:50:02 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [crisiscommonsTO] Crisis Commons Pub night - Tuesday, April 27, 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: CrisisCommonsTO is a group that uses open source tools to help provide logistical support to places hit by disaster. In the past year that would include places like Haiti or Chile. Any event these folks are having a little get-together next week that folks may want to look in on. Colin. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Heather Leson Date: Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:35 PM Subject: [crisiscommonsTO] Crisis Commons Pub night - Tuesday, April 27, 2010 To: crisiscommonsto-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw at public.gmane.org Hi Folks, we finally have a date to meet up. Let's get together informally and chat. We all volunteered and were so focused that we didn't get a chance to truly have conversations. This is a chance to informally talk about all the events of the past 3 months and about what is happening next for Crisis Commons.? We have weekly working groups to try and build the organization to make the volunteer experience better.? We grew to 2000 volunteers in 7 countries in 4 months. We really hope that you might join us to provide insight and perhaps some thoughts into how to build it better. We were so fortunate to have you volunteer for us.? While I can't buy you rounds, I certainly would love your company and thoughts. Crisis Commons Pub Night Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7pm - 10pm Mick E Fynn's 45 Carlton Street Hope you can join us, Heather Heather Leson heatherleson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Twitter: heather Leson Linked In: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/heatherleson Google Profile:http://www.google.com/profiles/heatherleson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 23 18:34:47 2010 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 14:34:47 -0400 Subject: Zenoss versus Zabbix Message-ID: Good Afternoon Everyone, Does anyone have any experiences with using Zenoss, Zabbix, or something else for that matter as a management and monitoring interface for Linux servers? I'm quite new to a firm where I am managing about 300 Ubuntu and OpenBSD machines worldwide. Presently we are utilizing Nagios for our monitoring and alerting. It does a pretty good job as far as I can tell, however, what I would like is something where I can track inventory. >From what I can tell, I would feed either of them the MIBs and OIDs I'd need to probe via SNMP, plus add some addition scripts to snmpd.conf to provide responses on other things. After that, it is on to Puppet, or CFEngine to make automated changes... well... automated. :) Thanks again!! John Miles. (Sysadmin Monkey) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 23 20:37:38 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:37:38 -0400 Subject: Phone interoperability Europe-Canada In-Reply-To: <87iq7khoxq.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK9lY98wAZ3ymN+n+qDOcVZb@public.gmane.org> References: <87iq7khoxq.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: <4BD20512.10903@rogers.com> Slack Rat wrote: > This request is for landline telephones and not cellular telephones > ("mobiles" or "handys" to most europeans) where one only has to juggle > SIM Cards - supposing they have a quad band telephone. > > But is it possible that a European Land Line telephone set might work > when connected to a Canadian phone service provider please? > > I wasn't able to find anything on the net > > The phones should work as they're essentially the same. However, you may run into regulatory issues of using an unapproved phone on the local network. Phones used in Canada have to be approved by Industry Canada, even though they're identical to a phone approved by the FCC in the U.S. or by the appropriate agency elsewhere. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 23 22:33:11 2010 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:33:11 -0400 Subject: Zenoss versus Zabbix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100423223311.GA5975@watson-wilon.ca> You might consider looking at OpenNMS as well. It is very mature and scalable. I also vigorously recommend Cfengine. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 23 22:42:10 2010 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: TekSavvy Cable Internet Message-ID: <2e3385b16fb98eb919a91dd114518dfb.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Hello everyone, I received an email from TekSavvy stating they are offering cable internet in Quebec (www.teksavvy.com/en/res-cable.asp) and soon in Toronto/GTA . Has anyone heard when it will be coming to Toronto/GTA? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 23 23:42:50 2010 From: alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 20:42:50 -0300 Subject: Zenoss versus Zabbix In-Reply-To: <20100423223311.GA5975-8agRmHhQ+n0LFV1hc+Bozg@public.gmane.org> References: <20100423223311.GA5975@watson-wilon.ca> Message-ID: Also puppet (as of Cfengine) Alexandre Alencar http://blog.alexandrealencar.net/ http://www.alexandrealencar.net/ COBIT, ITIL, CSM, LPI, MCP-I On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > You might consider looking at OpenNMS as well. It is very mature and > scalable. > > I also vigorously recommend Cfengine. > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 24 01:15:28 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 21:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Zenoss versus Zabbix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Apr 2010, John Miles wrote: > Does anyone have any experiences with using Zenoss, Zabbix, or something > else for that matter as a management and monitoring interface for Linux > servers? I've trialed just about every OSS option there is when it comes to alert & performance monitoring. For alert monitoring I've used Nagios for years. I've never been super happy with any of the performance monitoring options I've used. Cacti is great if you stick to the defaults but writing custom checks is much harder than it should be. What I really want is a tool that can do both fairly we.. I tried Zabbix a few weeks ago and found it to be way to chatty by default. I let it talk to a couple of boxes over the 'net and it was chewing up 1GB/box/day in traffic. It can be slowed down but I have to wonder when the default is so far from sensible. Also, it doesn't autodetect hardware on the client machines - although you can use templates to deal with this if you have a lot of identical machines. Also by default it doesn't count total network traffic - that is just weird. I tried Zenoss briefly but moved on quickly. collectd is a decent daemon that collects data and stores it as rrd or csv. Various GUIs are available and it integrates with Nagios although I haven't tried that yet. The latest one I'm trying is opsview (http://www.opsview.org/) which is actually an open source application made up of existing apps, integrated together with a new gui. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org IRC: Solver Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 24 03:47:53 2010 From: andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Heagle) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 23:47:53 -0400 Subject: Zenoss versus Zabbix In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201004232347.53471.andrew@logaan.com> On Friday 23 April 2010 21:15:28 Robert Brockway wrote: > > I tried Zenoss briefly but moved on quickly. > I'm just curious, what did you not like about Zenoss? It seems nicer than Nagios, but I haven't actually used it. I have also been hearing a lot of good things about Hyperic these days. Andrew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 24 13:39:04 2010 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 09:39:04 -0400 Subject: Zenoss versus Zabbix In-Reply-To: <201004232347.53471.andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <201004232347.53471.andrew@logaan.com> Message-ID: Interesting input everyone, Essentially what I'd like is something like IBM Systems Director - where you enter an IP/Hostname/Range, it gets an idea of which OS it is, you authenticate, and it collects a basic inventory. That being said, I think I may be missing just one or two things to get that sort of thing working within Zenoss. What I suspect is that much of this data can be easily extracted using snmpwalk. I simply need to collect the correct MIBs and OIDs to feed to it. What I do like about these solutions over IBM Systems Director is the complete absence of bloat. These open source apps are so wonderfully efficient and resource frugal. The Zabbix chattiness is a bit concerning, given I have a VPN connection into my customer's network, which in some cases is branch offices in Hong Kong or London. I also am in the business of security and network monitoring/logging which means, I'd better be filtering a GB of my traffic out of the logs. JohnMiles linux monkey On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 11:47 PM, Andrew Heagle wrote: > On Friday 23 April 2010 21:15:28 Robert Brockway wrote: > > > > I tried Zenoss briefly but moved on quickly. > > > > I'm just curious, what did you not like about Zenoss? It seems nicer than > Nagios, but I haven't actually used it. > > I have also been hearing a lot of good things about Hyperic these days. > > > Andrew > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 24 15:18:28 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:18:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Zenoss versus Zabbix In-Reply-To: <201004232347.53471.andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <201004232347.53471.andrew@logaan.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Apr 2010, Andrew Heagle wrote: > I'm just curious, what did you not like about Zenoss? It seems nicer than > Nagios, but I haven't actually used it. I didn't really like the interface (although yes I concede the Nagios interface isn't great either) :) Also there were some errors during startup even on their (virtualbox/vmware) appliance. An app coming out of the box should not have problems like that. I also installed it myself on a VE (virtual environment) under OpenVZ and saw the same errors, iirc. > I have also been hearing a lot of good things about Hyperic these days. I tried Hyperic last night. It comes as a stand alone package and claimed it couldn't find one of the config files that its own installation script was supposed to be installing. I'll be tryung Hyperic again on a fresh VE this weekend as it was late and I want to give it a 2nd chance :) I'm probably getting really intolerant with these packages as I've moved through a lot of them recently :) I keep coming back to collectd (http://collectd.org/). Seperating out the GUI seems to have been a good choice - collectd just gathers the data. A bunch of 3rd party GUIs have appeared to present/manage the data gathered by collectd. In addition a lot of modules have appeared. Some of these will be really useful for me like the OpenVPN module. I have a basic collectd system running at home and I'm considering it for various commercial environments. Configuration was really obvious. It can store data in rrd[1] or csv format. Overall I'd prefer sql but I can live with these options. collectd can do some sort of alerting on its own and it integrates with Nagios too. I haven't investigate this aspect properly yet. [1] I really think rrd is a solution looking for a problem. I don't want a database to be round-robin. Disk is cheap and perf stats aren't huge to begin with so even backing it up isn't a problem. I want to keep all the perf data and not have it over-write. As a result I am considering backing collectd to csv. This would also allow easy conversion to sql once that is an option. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org IRC: Solver Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 24 15:42:58 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:42:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Zenoss versus Zabbix In-Reply-To: References: <201004232347.53471.andrew@logaan.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Apr 2010, John Miles wrote: > That being said, I think I may be missing just one or two things to get that > sort of thing working within Zenoss. > What I suspect is that much of this data can be easily extracted using > snmpwalk. I simply need to collect the correct MIBs and OIDs to feed to it. It sounds like your core requirements are a little different to mine. I'd also like the ability to easily catalogue but I consider it secondary to good performance and alert monitoring in the one app. > The Zabbix chattiness is a bit concerning, given I have a VPN connection > into my customer's network, which in some cases is branch offices in Hong > Kong or London. I also am in the business of security and network > monitoring/logging which means, I'd better be filtering a GB of my traffic > out of the logs. There may be a way to have several Zabbix servers, one at each site, and have then able to store data centrally. The documentation didn't seem to make the method obvious. Zabbix was doing checks every few seconds which I found to be way over the top although it can be slowed down. Collectd also defaults to one check every 10 seconds but armed with my experiences with Zabbix I slowed it down right away. Figuring out how to tell collectd to check more slowly was more obvious than with most apps. In general configuring collectd is turning out to be fairly obvious. Cheers, Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org IRC: Solver Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 24 19:54:37 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:54:37 -0400 Subject: Canadian Connectivity - Temporary In-Reply-To: <8739yogi2z.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK9lY98wAZ3ymN+n+qDOcVZb@public.gmane.org> References: <8739yogi2z.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: <4BD34C7D.6080907@rogers.com> Slack Rat wrote: > I shall be leaving France tomorrow for Canada and zero'img my > nameservers around 0300 Zulu-GMT tomorrow right after the 0440 daily > localtime (CEST - ZULU*2 - France) backups finish running. > > Hopefully though, until I can get myself reconnected with a fixed IP I > can use TFN via telnet and I also have a shell account with > freeshell/sdf.lonestar > > But does anyone know if in Canada, Internet Cafes generally permit > outbound telnet connnections which is probably my best? > > One would hope you're not exposing a telnet server to the wilds of the internet. Why don't you use ssh? If you're forced to use Windows, you can put Putty on a USB stick and run it that way. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 24 19:58:45 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:58:45 -0400 Subject: Canadian Connectivity - Temporary In-Reply-To: <4BD0482C.3050206-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <8739yogi2z.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> <4BD0482C.3050206@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4BD34D75.3010901@rogers.com> Digimer wrote: > On 10-04-22 01:41 AM, Slack Rat wrote: >> I shall be leaving France tomorrow for Canada and zero'img my >> nameservers around 0300 Zulu-GMT tomorrow right after the 0440 daily >> localtime (CEST - ZULU*2 - France) backups finish running. >> >> Hopefully though, until I can get myself reconnected with a fixed IP I >> can use TFN via telnet and I also have a shell account with >> freeshell/sdf.lonestar >> >> But does anyone know if in Canada, Internet Cafes generally permit >> outbound telnet connnections which is probably my best? > > I ssh out from server hot spots and I've never seen it blocked. I > can't see of a reason why they would block it, to be honest. I guess > it just comes down to the given cafe/hot spot owner. > Some places filter connections. For example, at the Mississauga Library just about everything is blocked except browsers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 25 14:18:50 2010 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 10:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: looking for a perfectly respectable, cheap linux laptop Message-ID: given that my laptop *is* my primary processor (i don't own a desktop at all), i go thru laptops pretty much about once a year, just plain wearing them out. so it's that time again, and once again, i pop over to tiger direct and see what's on sale, and particularly refurbished since i've had *very* good luck with refurbished gateway laptops from there. i just picked up one of these: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5633769&CatId=4965 and i'm thinking that, at less than $500, i might want to get a second, similar (but not identical) system, so here are the options: another one of the above http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5250525&Sku=F12-150012 one of the other similar refurb'ed gateways minimally, i think i have the right to expect: * 64-bit processor with H/W virtualization * at least 3GB RAM, ideally 4GB * at least 1366x768 display * HDMI port * at least 3 USB 2.0 ports * minimally a 250GB hard drive i've had good luck sticking with AMD processors over the last couple of years, i guess i'm just curious about others' opinions on what laptops they see there that strike them as perfectly adequate linux systems, or recommendations on where else to look. as an aside, i'd really like to get a 1600x900 display but that seems to jack up the price another couple of hundred and i'm not sure that's worth it. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 25 18:45:01 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: looking for a perfectly respectable, cheap linux laptop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Robert P. J. Day | given that my laptop *is* my primary processor (i don't own a | desktop at all), i go thru laptops pretty much about once a year, just | plain wearing them out. ... That seems like a bargain. Choosing the right laptop very much depends on what you value. Things I value in a laptop, in order (I also have a desktop): - working with Linux - value for money - portability - battery life (I probably value it more than it matters) - pixels - price - VT (hardware support for virtualization) - brand rep Generally AMD chips are not as good for notebooks because of their higher power. Unfortunately, this means that the only the cheapest notebooks have AMD chips. On the other hand, if you want VT, Intel has historically made you buy a top-of-the-line notebook and AMD does not. I'm willing to spend quite a bit on my main system. Any improvement in my day-in-day-out working conditions is worth a fair bit to me. Within reason, CPU speed doesn't much matter. Screen characteristics do. That's why the inordinate cost of my 30" 2560x1600 monitor still seems worthwhile to me. | so it's that time again, and once again, i | pop over to tiger direct and see what's on sale, and particularly | refurbished since i've had *very* good luck with refurbished gateway | laptops from there. I don't mind refurbs. Usually you only get a short warranty (not in the case of Apple Store refurbs). Because notebooks are often hard to fix, I value a warranty. Tiger Direct is really hit or miss as far as I can tell. You really need to know what you are buying from them. I think that the vast majority of their products are "fully priced" (overpriced). But randomly they have what I consider very good prices. I wrote this list about a great netbook deal I found a month or so ago. | i just picked up one of these: | | http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5633769&CatId=4965 As I said, that looks good. | and i'm thinking that, at less than $500, i might want to get a | second, similar (but not identical) system, so here are the options: Asus has a much better reputation than Gateway (an Acer brand). My experience with Acer has been mostly fine. Both notebooks seem heavy. 6.82 lb for the Gateway, 5.7 lb for the Asus. Probably reasonable for notebooks with 15.6" screens and optical drives. The Core 2 Solo SU3500 does have VT Why do you want a similar notebook? Would it make sense to get a very different one to cover more bases? Say a really small one that is easy to carry? Or a really big one with a great 17" screen? Or stagger your purchases in time? | minimally, i think i have the right to expect: | | * 64-bit processor with H/W virtualization | * at least 3GB RAM, ideally 4GB | * at least 1366x768 display | * HDMI port | * at least 3 USB 2.0 ports | * minimally a 250GB hard drive A fine list. I don't have any notebook with HDMI but I think that HDMI is a Good Thing. I always push for more pixels. A 7200 RPM disk *might* well make a noticable improvement in performance. I've never had one in a notebook and all my notebooks seem slow compared to my desktops. | as an aside, i'd really like to get a 1600x900 display but that | seems to jack up the price another couple of hundred and i'm not sure | that's worth it. I like pixels. Sometimes you can find good deals for things with high-res screens. My daughter only has a notebook so she got one with a 1920x1200 screen (years ago). It added roughly 15% to the price of the notebook but notebooks were more expensive then. That option seems to have almost vanished. You are talking about adding almost 50% to the price, which seems high, at least expressed that way. Instead of talking about relative cost, can you put an actual monetary value to you on the feature? Cost and value are too very different things; I, as a bargain hunter, don't sufficiently attend to the difference. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 26 01:26:19 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:26:19 -0400 Subject: Events this week Message-ID: Next few days will have a lot of things happening of interest to the Open Source Fans... * International Symposium on Code Generation and Optimization - 24-28th April, 2010 * World Plone Day - Toronto - 28th April, 2010 * TASK (Toronto Area Security Klatch) meeting - 28th April, 2010 - http://www.task.to/ * itech - 29th April, 2010 * Ubuntu 10.4 Release Party - 29th April, 2010 * Linux in the Park - 1st May, 2010 With the exception of the TASK meeting you can get more details on all the above at the GTALug events page: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Events Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From shinoj-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 26 07:10:15 2010 From: shinoj-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (shinoj vg) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:40:15 +0530 Subject: Zenoss versus Zabbix In-Reply-To: References: <201004232347.53471.andrew@logaan.com> , Message-ID: I think it is possible to use OCS for inventory and generate nagios config from it for monitoring/alerting - This way you have best of both worlds. Regards, Shinoj. _________________________________________________________________ Climate, controversies and the changing signatures of nature http://green.in.msn.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shinoj-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 26 08:47:54 2010 From: shinoj-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (shinoj vg) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 14:17:54 +0530 Subject: SPF and caching DNS In-Reply-To: <1271679307.6644.21.camel@cougar-hardy> References: <1271679307.6644.21.camel@cougar-hardy> Message-ID: Hi, 1. Did setting up a local DNS server change anything else like the outgoing(SMTP) server? 2. Can you please send the exact error message. I dont think setting up a local DNS server should cause spf problems. Regards, Shinoj. _________________________________________________________________ Climate, controversies and the changing signatures of nature http://green.in.msn.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 26 10:56:08 2010 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:56:08 -0400 Subject: SPF and caching DNS In-Reply-To: References: <1271679307.6644.21.camel@cougar-hardy> Message-ID: <1272279368.18287.2.camel@cougar-hardy> On Mon, 2010-04-26 at 14:17 +0530, shinoj vg wrote: > Hi, > > 1. Did setting up a local DNS server change anything else like the outgoing(SMTP) server? No. > 2. Can you please send the exact error message. The failure message ... | This is the mail system at host mailout.easydns.com. | | I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not | be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. | | For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. | | If you do so, please include this problem report. You can | delete your own text from the attached returned message. | | The mail system | | : host smtp.easydns.COM[64.68.200.52] said: 554 | 5.7.1 : Recipient address rejected: Please | see | http://spf.pobox.com/why.html?sender=cougar_admin%40iseries-guru.com&ip=64.68.200.4&receiver=forward2 | (in reply to RCPT TO command) Note that the referenced help page reports the current state of my domain (spf off) rather that the way things were are at the time of failure (spf on). > > I dont think setting up a local DNS server should cause spf problems. > > Regards, > Shinoj. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teecee-3xpccZqdWRo7lZ9V/NTDHw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 26 14:22:32 2010 From: teecee-3xpccZqdWRo7lZ9V/NTDHw at public.gmane.org (TeeCee) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 10:22:32 -0400 Subject: Laptop Repair Recommendation In-Reply-To: <20100421173041.GA24289-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100421173041.GA24289@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <8CCB3630B564C73-144C-119E@web-mmc-m09.sysops.aol.com> I know this response is a little stale to the topic, but if you are downtown and know the corner of Augusta and College, there is a big mostly medical arts building at the top of Augusta on the north side of College St. At the west end of the building there is a small shop, it was the OTA notebook centre. Now it has another name which I cannot remember. They may have a sandwich board outside. In my opinion these people are competent to do component level work on laptops. Hope this helps. TC -----Original Message----- From: William O'Higgins Witteman To: tlug Sent: Wed, Apr 21, 2010 1:30 pm Subject: [TLUG]: Laptop Repair Recommendation If you had a 3 year old laptop that started to make bad noises, but didn't want to fix it yourself, who would you take it too in downtown Toronto? (I have already recommended replacement - 3 year old Dell subcompact notebooks can't be expected to last very long at the best of times, but there may not be a budget for replacement right now.) Thanks. -- yours, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 26 15:28:07 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 11:28:07 -0400 Subject: Laptop Repair Recommendation In-Reply-To: <8CCB3630B564C73-144C-119E-uLXz1gKW/XUuw7o4+xsDMrgMRKj5Rqyl0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100421173041.GA24289@yam.witteman.ca> <8CCB3630B564C73-144C-119E@web-mmc-m09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4BD5B107.10103@rogers.com> TeeCee wrote: > I know this response is a little stale to the topic, but if you are > downtown and know the corner of Augusta and College, there is a big > mostly medical arts building And if you don't know the corner there is no medical arts building? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 26 16:55:53 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:55:53 -0400 Subject: looking for a perfectly respectable, cheap linux laptop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100426165553.GA17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 10:18:50AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > given that my laptop *is* my primary processor (i don't own a > desktop at all), i go thru laptops pretty much about once a year, just > plain wearing them out. so it's that time again, and once again, i > pop over to tiger direct and see what's on sale, and particularly > refurbished since i've had *very* good luck with refurbished gateway > laptops from there. How do you wear out a laptop in a year? Physical abuse? > i just picked up one of these: > > http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5633769&CatId=4965 > > and i'm thinking that, at less than $500, i might want to get a > second, similar (but not identical) system, so here are the options: > > another one of the above > http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5250525&Sku=F12-150012 > one of the other similar refurb'ed gateways > > minimally, i think i have the right to expect: > > * 64-bit processor with H/W virtualization > * at least 3GB RAM, ideally 4GB > * at least 1366x768 display > * HDMI port > * at least 3 USB 2.0 ports > * minimally a 250GB hard drive > > i've had good luck sticking with AMD processors over the last couple > of years, i guess i'm just curious about others' opinions on what > laptops they see there that strike them as perfectly adequate linux > systems, or recommendations on where else to look. I like AMD processors. I hate ATI chipsets. Bit of a problem these days. > as an aside, i'd really like to get a 1600x900 display but that > seems to jack up the price another couple of hundred and i'm not sure > that's worth it. I love the 1680x1050 on my laptop. Mine is about a year old now and still runs great (of course I hardly ever take it anywhere). On a lenovo T510, going from 1366x768 to 1600x900 adds $50 (-30% at the moment, so $35). So not a couple of hundred. If I was buying a new one, any resolution upgrade is always worth it. I paid $150 to go from 1280x800 to 1680x1050 and I have never regretted it. Certainly a thinkpad SL510 should be able to be had with the above specs (basicly the base spec is what you want except the ram, which is 2GB default, but upgrading that is no big deal). They often have sales that bring the price below $500 on that. They don't right now, but it happens often enough that you rarely have to wait more than a couple of weeks. For higher resolution, something like the T510 has that option, but it costs more (it is also a much more robust design). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 26 16:58:55 2010 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:58:55 -0400 Subject: Laptop Repair Recommendation In-Reply-To: <4BD5B107.10103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100421173041.GA24289@yam.witteman.ca> <8CCB3630B564C73-144C-119E@web-mmc-m09.sysops.aol.com> <4BD5B107.10103@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Monday 26 April 2010 11:28:07 you wrote: > TeeCee wrote: > > I know this response is a little stale to the topic, but if you are > > downtown and know the corner of Augusta and College, there is a big > > mostly medical arts building > > And if you don't know the corner there is no medical arts building? ;-) > There's this crew of government employees with mind-reading equipment that scurries around tearing down the medical arts building when they read that someone who doesn't know the corner is approaching. Wear your tinfoil hat... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 26 17:15:11 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 13:15:11 -0400 Subject: looking for a perfectly respectable, cheap linux laptop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100426171511.GB17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 02:45:01PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > That seems like a bargain. Doesn't to me. > Choosing the right laptop very much depends on what you value. Things > I value in a laptop, in order (I also have a desktop): > - working with Linux I certainly consider that key. That's why I have a thinkpad SL500. > - value for money By which definition of value? > - portability That's a tradeoff. Lighter often means more expensive, or less capable, or less battery life. You have to balance it with your other needs. > - battery life (I probably value it more than it matters) I certainly don't care very much myself, but I don't travel much with mine. I did not get a 9cell battery but instead only a 6 cell, since it makes it lighter and 2 hours is enough for my needs. I don't need 3 hours. I did spend the extra money going from a 35W to a 25W cpu on mine though and got the 5400rpm HD instead of the 7200, again to save battery life. > - pixels I can't have enough. 1680x1050 on a 15.4" is pretty good for me. > - price While price matters, to me spending $500 on a piece of junk is not a bargain. Spending $800 on a high quality machine that is perfect for me is a bargain. I believe in "Buy it once". That means buy the right thing and pay what it costs once rather than buying less than you needed and having to buy something else again later. Sometimes it means waiting until you can afford what you need. That's probably why I never had a laptop until last spring. That's when I could find a decent price laptop that was good enough. When I buy a deksktop machine I build it to last 5 to 10 years, not 2 years. I think a $500 desktop machine is a waste of money, while a $1500 to $2000 desktop is a great purchase. You get much more for your money in the more expensive one. It is not uncommon to fund that on the $500 desktop, putting in $100 more would double the specs on much of the machine. Low cost machines are cutting every corner they can including all the once that are never worth cutting (for the end user). > - VT (hardware support for virtualization) I certainly wanted that, and got it. > - brand rep Certainly important. > Generally AMD chips are not as good for notebooks because of their > higher power. Unfortunately, this means that the only the cheapest > notebooks have AMD chips. On the other hand, if you want VT, Intel > has historically made you buy a top-of-the-line notebook and AMD does > not. No, the laptop makers just choose to use the cheapest chips. Intel has plenty of cheap CPUs with VT. > I'm willing to spend quite a bit on my main system. Any improvement > in my day-in-day-out working conditions is worth a fair bit to me. > Within reason, CPU speed doesn't much matter. Screen characteristics > do. That's why the inordinate cost of my 30" 2560x1600 monitor still > seems worthwhile to me. And screens easily should outlast the computer. > I don't mind refurbs. Usually you only get a short warranty (not in > the case of Apple Store refurbs). Because notebooks are often hard to > fix, I value a warranty. > > Tiger Direct is really hit or miss as far as I can tell. You really > need to know what you are buying from them. I think that the vast > majority of their products are "fully priced" (overpriced). But > randomly they have what I consider very good prices. I wrote this > list about a great netbook deal I found a month or so ago. I rarely bother going there. They are often overpriced, and a lot of what they sell is crap, and I get the impression they are a nightmare to deal with of there is a problem with something. > As I said, that looks good. My experience with gateway has been terrible. It has ATI video, which I won't waste my precious time dealing with. The wifi doesn't have 5ghz support (something I now consider essential. The 2.4ghz band has become useless in many places). > Asus has a much better reputation than Gateway (an Acer brand). My > experience with Acer has been mostly fine. Asus is certainly a much better build quality than Acer. Asus also tends to have amazingly good support/service. > Both notebooks seem heavy. 6.82 lb for the Gateway, 5.7 lb for the > Asus. Probably reasonable for notebooks with 15.6" screens and > optical drives. Yeah it is quite reasonable. > The Core 2 Solo SU3500 does have VT > Single core? I didn't know they still made that. I would think the performance you loose would make no one want to get that. > Why do you want a similar notebook? Would it make sense to get a very > different one to cover more bases? Say a really small one that is > easy to carry? Or a really big one with a great 17" screen? Or > stagger your purchases in time? > > A fine list. I don't have any notebook with HDMI but I think that > HDMI is a Good Thing. My SL500 has HDMI. I have played with it a few times. Entertainly it used to crash windows 7 when you plugged it in (but worked fine when it finished rebooting). I haven't run windows on it in many months now so now idea if that has been fixed yet. > I always push for more pixels. > > A 7200 RPM disk *might* well make a noticable improvement in > performance. I've never had one in a notebook and all my notebooks > seem slow compared to my desktops. A 7200 rpm drive also uses a lot more power. If you care about battery life, you would avoid it. > I like pixels. Sometimes you can find good deals for things with > high-res screens. > > My daughter only has a notebook so she got one with a 1920x1200 screen > (years ago). It added roughly 15% to the price of the notebook but > notebooks were more expensive then. That option seems to have almost > vanished. On 17" screens that has been an option. On 15.6" it seems 1920x1080 (FHD or full HD) is sometimes an option although HD (1366x768) or HD+ (1600x900) is more common to find. > You are talking about adding almost 50% to the price, which seems > high, at least expressed that way. Instead of talking about relative > cost, can you put an actual monetary value to you on the feature? > Cost and value are too very different things; I, as a bargain > hunter, don't sufficiently attend to the difference. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 26 18:45:13 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 14:45:13 -0400 Subject: Laptop Repair Recommendation In-Reply-To: <8CCB3630B564C73-144C-119E-uLXz1gKW/XUuw7o4+xsDMrgMRKj5Rqyl0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org> References: <20100421173041.GA24289@yam.witteman.ca> <8CCB3630B564C73-144C-119E@web-mmc-m09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 10:22, TeeCee wrote: > I know this response is a little stale to the topic, but if you are downtown > and know the corner of Augusta and College, there is a big mostly medical > arts building > at the top of Augusta on the north side of College St. At the west end of > the building there is a small shop, it was the OTA notebook centre. Now it > has > another name which I cannot remember. They may have a sandwich board > outside. In my opinion these people are competent to do component level > work on laptops. > > Hope this helps. > TC > The place is called Laptop Service Express. Also, there is a place on Dundas Street East, just west of Church Street on the North side that sells as well as repairs laptops, don't remember what the place is called though. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 26 19:08:36 2010 From: pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Pete Lancashire) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:08:36 -0700 Subject: OT: TekSavvy Cable Internet Message-ID: <29ee20dcdc5a0213d77d888d0f3dda6b.squirrel@petelancashire.com> I find the last two pricing interesting High Speed Elite Cable is unlimited download and Ultimate Cable is Sorry for being off topic but I'll be moving to TO in about a year and half and wonder with options are there for "OK" (3 to 8 Mbits/sec) data rates ? -pete -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 26 19:47:28 2010 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: TekSavvy Cable Internet In-Reply-To: <29ee20dcdc5a0213d77d888d0f3dda6b.squirrel-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <29ee20dcdc5a0213d77d888d0f3dda6b.squirrel@petelancashire.com> Message-ID: <593351.18675.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> What I'm curious about is whether or not you're going to be throttled by the owner of those cable lines. -M --- On Mon, 4/26/10, Pete Lancashire wrote: > From: Pete Lancashire > Subject: [TLUG]: OT: TekSavvy Cable Internet > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 7:08 PM > I find the last two pricing > interesting > > High Speed Elite Cable is unlimited download > > and > > Ultimate Cable is > > Sorry for being off topic but I'll be moving to TO > in about a year and half and wonder with options > are there for "OK" (3 to 8 Mbits/sec) data rates ? > > -pete > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 27 14:44:35 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:44:35 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [crisiscommonsTO] Reminder: Crisis Commons Pub Night Today In-Reply-To: <1f500914-7579-4b12-be34-975e03a42665-tPmyH1Z0REFbq1Q/qNOjNmB/v6IoIuQBVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <1f500914-7579-4b12-be34-975e03a42665@u34g2000yqu.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: The Crisis Commons folks are interested in using Open Source software and tools to provide logistical support for places that have been hit by crisis. This means things like making maps creating reports of supplies needed, etc., for groups on the ground in crisis areas. The local people interested in Crisis Commons are having a little get together, details to be seen below: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Heather Leson [snip] Date: Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 8:56 AM Subject: [crisiscommonsTO] Reminder: Crisis Commons Pub Night Today To: CrisisCommonsTO Morning everyone, Hope you can pop by for a drink and chat Crisis Commons Pub Night Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7pm - 10pm Mick E Fynn's 45 Carlton Street Also, if you have some time to volunteer virtually, we'd love it. There is some technical writing around governance and policy as well as some analysis about project management. More in person, but you can always email me to ask for updates. There are also some more technical projects too. You would be collaborating with the UK folks (XSL/XML, drupal, and webdesign) Thanks! Heather -- Subscription settings: http://groups.google.com/group/crisiscommonsto/subscribe?hl=en -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 27 14:45:09 2010 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:45:09 -0400 Subject: Change we can believe in? Message-ID: http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/posted/archive/2010/04/27/pirate-party-of-canada-gains-party-status.aspx Earlier this month Canada's chief electoral officer gave the Pirate Party of Canada party status, which means the burgeoning party can field candidates in the next election, raise money and issue tax receipts. The party, which advocates copyright and patent reform, net neutrality and privacy among its key platform planks, first started in Sweden but now has branches in the U.K., Australia and many other European countries. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 27 16:13:39 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:13:39 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? Message-ID: Is there anyone on the list that can possibly answer this question, or point me in the direction of someone or somewhere where I can get this question answered; how long would it take to bike to Burlington? -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 27 16:22:26 2010 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:22:26 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BD70F42.5060608@dinamis.com> On 04/27/2010 12:13 PM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > Is there anyone on the list that can possibly answer this question, or > point me in the direction of someone or somewhere where I can get this > question answered; how long would it take to bike to Burlington? From Vancouver, I'd imagine months. From Oakville, it could be minutes, depending on the "from" and "to". :) If you ask on the Toronto Bicycling Network message boards with more specific locations, someone is likely to know. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 27 16:23:22 2010 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:23:22 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've done that ride many times. It totally depends on the cyclist's speed, and a little bit on the traffic conditions. But cycling the Lakeshore route isn't usually too congested, and there aren't too many stops (lights, stop signs). It's about 60km from downtown Toronto to downtown Burlington, so at a reasonable 20km/h pace it's 3 hours. Add time for breaks, lunch, etc. as needed. Vic Gedris - http://vic.gedris.org Toronto, Ontario, Canada - http://www.junctiontriangle.ca On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > Is there anyone on the list that can possibly answer this question, or > point me in the direction of someone or somewhere where I can get this > question answered; how long would it take to bike to Burlington? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 27 16:30:04 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:30:04 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Vic Gedris wrote: > I've done that ride many times. ?It totally depends on the cyclist's > speed, and a little bit on the traffic conditions. ?But cycling the > Lakeshore route isn't usually too congested, and there aren't too many > stops (lights, stop signs). ?It's about 60km from downtown Toronto to > downtown Burlington, so at a reasonable 20km/h pace it's 3 hours. > > Add time for breaks, lunch, etc. as needed. > > Vic Gedris - http://vic.gedris.org I'd go with Vic's answer based on his experience. Next time you might have a look at Ride the City http://www.ridethecity.com/toronto# It has the advantage of using OpenStreetMap data and recommends "safer", "safe" and "direct" routes based on separated bike lanes, adjacent bike lanes, and shared roads. Pretty cool. We can make Ride the City, and other OSM derived applications work better by contributing more data to OSM. For example, many of the signed Toronto bike lanes are not currently in OSM. The disadvantages of Ride the City are that: 1) they don't estimate travel time, only distance 2) they make the ridiculous assumption that you only care to travel within the Toronto boundary. That prevents use for this trip. Too bad. Nice idea otherwise. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 27 16:30:55 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:30:55 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > Is there anyone on the list that can possibly answer this question, or > point me in the direction of someone or somewhere where I can get this > question answered; how long would it take to bike to Burlington? Google Maps tells me that to get from where I am (401+Yonge) to the GO Station in Burlington, it would take about 13 hours of walking, and lists an extraordinarily long list of streets to walk down, though about 26km is on Dundas Street (of one description or another). On a bicycle, it should take materially less than 13 hours :-). You probably ought to be more specific about source + destination, as routes are doubtless somewhat sensitive to the starting and ending points. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 27 16:50:52 2010 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:50:52 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://yournavigation.org/ also uses OSM data, will route for bicycles, and does not stop at the municipal boundary. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 27 17:00:06 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 13:00:06 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100427170006.GA22301@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:13:39PM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote: >Is there anyone on the list that can possibly answer this question, or >point me in the direction of someone or somewhere where I can get this >question answered; how long would it take to bike to Burlington? The specific to and from are important, but 2-4 hours from downtown is reasonable if you are in good shape and the wind isn't too bad. I have ridden from the Annex to Niagra-on-the-Lake in a middling wind, with lots of rest stops and a long lunch break in 9 hours door-to-door. For a while I commuted to Lakeshore and Brown's line from the Annex in 45 minutes each way. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 27 17:06:48 2010 From: natzilla-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Renata Rocha) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 13:06:48 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: <20100427170006.GA22301-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100427170006.GA22301@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 13:00, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:13:39PM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote: >>Is there anyone on the list that can possibly answer this question, or >>point me in the direction of someone or somewhere where I can get this >>question answered; how long would it take to bike to Burlington? > > The specific to and from are important, but 2-4 hours from downtown is > reasonable if you are in good shape and the wind isn't too bad. ?I have > ridden from the Annex to Niagra-on-the-Lake in a middling wind, with > lots of rest stops and a long lunch break in 9 hours door-to-door. > > For a while I commuted to Lakeshore and Brown's line from the Annex in > 45 minutes each way. Nice biking topic. I'm interested in buying a starter bike for transportation purposes, if someone feels like giving me advice on this, please PVT me. I'm less than 5' and I usually buy child/teen bikes. -- Renata Rocha http://renata.org http://www.linkedin.com/in/renatarocha -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 00:18:16 2010 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 20:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: <4BD70F42.5060608-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4BD70F42.5060608@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Apr 2010, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 04/27/2010 12:13 PM, Michael Lauzon wrote: >> Is there anyone on the list that can possibly answer this question, or >> point me in the direction of someone or somewhere where I can get this >> question answered; how long would it take to bike to Burlington? > > From Vancouver, I'd imagine months. From Oakville, it could be minutes, > depending on the "from" and "to". :) Hahah - you beat me to it :) I was going to suggest that from Burlington it would take no time at all, and may not even require a bicycle :) Rob -- Email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org IRC: Solver Web: http://www.practicalsysadmin.com Open Source: The revolution that silently changed the world -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 04:09:05 2010 From: Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Stan Witkowski) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 00:09:05 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100428041101.HHEC16376.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.srvr.bell.ca> At 12:13 PM 4/27/2010, Michael Lauzon wrote: >how long would it take to bike to Burlington? When I was between 16 - 20 (decades ago) I did it several times (5?) with friends. Starting in the High Park area, and going FLAT OUT (no more than a few minutes per rest stop, with FEW stops)) along the lakeshore (Highway 2) I did it in under 2 hours, but I was in great shape in those days. I also did it several times just ambling along and seeing the sights, and that was around 3 - 4 hours. To go there and back you should count on AT LEAST a half day, and these days likely most of a day. Note that there would have been much less traffic in those days! Also, 10 speed racing bikes were rare then (when I got mine all of the kids in the neighbourhood turned out to see it-it was the first one there), and hence people with them were taken more seriously (and thus got more leeway, etc.). Now you have all kinds of complete idiots feeling that they have a God-given right to zip through stop signs, red lights, sidewalks, cars, etc. Stan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From shinoj-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 08:27:40 2010 From: shinoj-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (shinoj vg) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 13:57:40 +0530 Subject: SPF and caching DNS In-Reply-To: <1272279368.18287.2.camel@cougar-hardy> References: <1271679307.6644.21.camel@cougar-hardy>,,<1272279368.18287.2.camel@cougar-hardy> Message-ID: Was the IP 64.68.200.4 included in your spf? Is it possible for you to send the spf details? Regards, Shinoj. > Subject: RE: [TLUG]: SPF and caching DNS > From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:56:08 -0400 > > On Mon, 2010-04-26 at 14:17 +0530, shinoj vg wrote: > > Hi, > > > > 1. Did setting up a local DNS server change anything else like the outgoing(SMTP) server? > > No. > > > 2. Can you please send the exact error message. > > The failure message ... > > | This is the mail system at host mailout.easydns.com. > | > | I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not > | be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. > | > | For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. > | > | If you do so, please include this problem report. You can > | delete your own text from the attached returned message. > | > | The mail system > | > | : host smtp.easydns.COM[64.68.200.52] said: 554 > | 5.7.1 : Recipient address rejected: Please > | see > | http://spf.pobox.com/why.html?sender=cougar_admin%40iseries-guru.com&ip=64.68.200.4&receiver=forward2 > | (in reply to RCPT TO command) > > Note that the referenced help page reports the current state of > my domain (spf off) rather that the way things were are at the > time of failure (spf on). > > > > > I dont think setting up a local DNS server should cause spf problems. > > > > Regards, > > Shinoj. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ South Cinema This Decade http://entertainment.in.msn.com/southcinemathisdecade/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 09:43:10 2010 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 05:43:10 -0400 Subject: SPF and caching DNS In-Reply-To: References: <1271679307.6644.21.camel@cougar-hardy> , ,<1272279368.18287.2.camel@cougar-hardy> Message-ID: <1272447790.21808.3.camel@cougar-hardy> On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 13:57 +0530, shinoj vg wrote: > > Was the IP 64.68.200.4 included in your spf? No. > > Is it possible for you to send the spf details? > For host iseries-guru.com. I had TXT record v=spf1 a:mailout1.igs.net a:mailout.easydns.com a:mailout1.easydns.com a:smtp.torfree.net -all > Regards, > Shinoj. > > > > Subject: RE: [TLUG]: SPF and caching DNS > > From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:56:08 -0400 > > > > On Mon, 2010-04-26 at 14:17 +0530, shinoj vg wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > 1. Did setting up a local DNS server change anything else like the outgoing(SMTP) server? > > > > No. > > > > > 2. Can you please send the exact error message. > > > > The failure message ... > > > > | This is the mail system at host mailout.easydns.com. > > | > > | I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not > > | be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. > > | > > | For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. > > | > > | If you do so, please include this problem report. You can > > | delete your own text from the attached returned message. > > | > > | The mail system > > | > > | : host smtp.easydns.COM[64.68.200.52] said: 554 > > | 5.7.1 : Recipient address rejected: Please > > | see > > | http://spf.pobox.com/why.html?sender=cougar_admin%40iseries-guru.com&ip=64.68.200.4&receiver=forward2 > > | (in reply to RCPT TO command) > > > > Note that the referenced help page reports the current state of > > my domain (spf off) rather that the way things were are at the > > time of failure (spf on). > > > > > > > > I dont think setting up a local DNS server should cause spf problems. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Shinoj. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 10:17:55 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 06:17:55 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: <20100428041101.HHEC16376.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net-gyyLKlefxJswIX1l3z+UyLDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <20100428041101.HHEC16376.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.srvr.bell.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 00:09, Stan Witkowski wrote: > Now you have all kinds of complete idiots feeling that they have a God-given > right to > zip through stop signs, red lights, sidewalks, cars, etc. > > > Stan. > You can say the same thing about people with vehicles as well. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From shinoj-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 11:59:24 2010 From: shinoj-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (shinoj vg) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:29:24 +0530 Subject: SPF and caching DNS In-Reply-To: <1272447790.21808.3.camel@cougar-hardy> References: <1271679307.6644.21.camel@cougar-hardy>,,,,<1272279368.18287.2.camel@cougar-hardy>,,<1272447790.21808.3.camel@cougar-hardy> Message-ID: Adding fw2.easydns.com to your spf should solve the problem. Please contact easydns.com and see if any other IP's need to be included. Regards, Shinoj. _________________________________________________________________ The amazing world in sharp snaps http://news.in.msn.com/gallery/archive.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 12:37:20 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 08:37:20 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: <20100428041101.HHEC16376.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.srvr.bell.ca> Message-ID: <4BD82C00.7020605@rogers.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 00:09, Stan Witkowski wrote: > >> Now you have all kinds of complete idiots feeling that they have a God-given >> right to >> zip through stop signs, red lights, sidewalks, cars, etc. >> >> >> Stan. >> >> > You can say the same thing about people with vehicles as well. > > > I thought bicycles were vehicles. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 12:53:15 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 08:53:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: <4BD82C00.7020605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100428041101.HHEC16376.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.srvr.bell.ca> <4BD82C00.7020605@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 08:37, James Knott wrote: > > I thought bicycles were vehicles. > You know what I meant. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 13:05:40 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 09:05:40 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: <20100428041101.HHEC16376.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.srvr.bell.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:17 AM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 00:09, Stan Witkowski wrote: >> Now you have all kinds of complete idiots feeling that they have a God-given >> right to >> zip through stop signs, red lights, sidewalks, cars, etc. >> >> >> Stan. >> > > You can say the same thing about people with vehicles as well. I imagine I could, but it wouldn't make it representative of reality. (That there exists *one* person driving a motor vehicle that does so isn't sufficiently representative of reality.) I don't regularly see people driving motor vehicles in the wrong direction / on the wrong side of the road. I do, on the other hand, see people with bicycles doing that with saddening regularity. There are a LOT of cars on the roads - I do not see many "driving anarchists" that evidence that they ignore traffic rules to the degree that they're continually on the wrong side of the street or do not stop, altogether. I see far fewer cyclists, but of that smaller set, I do, fairly regularly, see this sort of "anarchist." The "utterly ignore rules of road" seems rather more frequent amongst cyclists. It's fairly logical for things to be so; there is an expectation for police to triage their efforts towards the sorts of activities that cause more public damage, and we might sum that up with the example: - Car goes out of control, crashing into a house. Major property damage, easily leading to injury and death of innocents. - Bicycle goes out of control, crashing into a house. Thud. This isn't entirely representative, as scenarios go, but it's illustrative... Someone that hurts only their own self via doing something dumb (or even illegal) isn't nearly as crucial for police to intervene in as the alternative case which leads to significant damage to others. There's rather less incentive for cyclists to follow the law, and there is even ambiguity (e.g. - is "road=motorists+cyclists" a better fit than "sidewalk=pedestrians+cyclists"?) To an extent, cyclists are "not perfectly welcome" on either sidewalk or road. That's somewhat codified in law, for Segways, but "where should cyclists be?" is rather less clear. We have cycle lanes that have been created, which taxis like to park in, illegally. Which doesn't encourage any detente in the matter. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 13:17:22 2010 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 09:17:22 -0400 Subject: OT: "You know what I meant" was OT: Any Cyclists? Message-ID: On 28 April 2010 08:53, Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 08:37, James Knott wrote: >> I thought bicycles were vehicles. > > You know what I meant. Of course he did. But, as you should know, it's pretty much guaranteed that if there's a humorous potshot available on GTALUG, someone will take it. You can either watch your words - be syntactically and lexically correct AND clear your ambiguities - or just let the potshots go. Don't worry about it: it entertains some people and is only harmful if you allow yourself to have a thin skin. And if you have a thin skin, what on earth are you doing posting to GTALUG? :-) -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 13:34:46 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 09:34:46 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: <20100428041101.HHEC16376.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.srvr.bell.ca> Message-ID: <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 09:05:40AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >There's rather less incentive for cyclists to follow the law, and >there is even ambiguity (e.g. - is "road=motorists+cyclists" a better >fit than "sidewalk=pedestrians+cyclists"?) To an extent, cyclists are >"not perfectly welcome" on either sidewalk or road. That's somewhat >codified in law, for Segways, but "where should cyclists be?" is >rather less clear. Not so unclear - perhaps unknown. A City bylaw allows cyclists with a tire size of 61cm or 24 inches or less to ride on the sidewalk. The intent of this bylaw is to allow young children to cycle on the sidewalk while they learn to ride. The bylaw is based on wheel size because it is difficult for Police to enforce age-based bylaws, as most children do not carry identification. This is a municipal bylaw and rules vary in communities across Ontario. http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/safety/sidewalk/sidewalk.htm A bicycle is classed as a "vehicle" under the Highway Traffic Act, and is subject to the same laws as cars. http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK0 Bike lanes are municipally created and maintained, and governed by municipal bylaws. I take your point that many cyclists routinely disobey the law, and this casts all cyclists in a poor light. However, I once tracked driver errors over a month and found, in 1 hour of commuting per weekday, 11 instances per week (average) of failure to stop, left turn not in safety and failure to signal. These errors might be overlooked by drivers, but to cyclists and pedestrians they are potentially fatal (potential fatality was my threshold criteria for counting an error). -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 14:01:32 2010 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:01:32 +0000 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: <20100428133446.GA986-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: ,<20100428041101.HHEC16376.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.srvr.bell.ca>,,,<20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: > > A bicycle is classed as a "vehicle" under the Highway Traffic Act, and > is subject to the same laws as cars. > http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK0 > I didn't quite see where it says that bicycles are subject to the same laws as cars. Maybe it's buried in there somewhere. Bicycles are not allowed on expressways, so there's a significant difference right there. I used to have a traffic cop as a neighbour. He was explaining to me some of the misconceptions about the regulations for bicycles and motorised vehicles. I don't really want to get into minute details here (my recollection is a bit fuzzy and this is a linux list), but it seems that there are differences between the two. Or maybe the bigger differences are on the enforcement side of things. For example (unless the laws have changed), you don't have to identify yourself to a policemen if you break traffic rules a cyclist, but you have to do so as a motorist. That would make it easier for cyclists to get away with unsafe behaviour. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 14:04:59 2010 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 10:04:59 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: <20100428133446.GA986-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100428041101.HHEC16376.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@toip4.srvr.bell.ca> <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 9:34 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 09:05:40AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > >>There's rather less incentive for cyclists to follow the law, and >>there is even ambiguity (e.g. - is "road=motorists+cyclists" a better >>fit than "sidewalk=pedestrians+cyclists"?) ?To an extent, cyclists are >>"not perfectly welcome" on either sidewalk or road. ?That's somewhat >>codified in law, for Segways, but "where should cyclists be?" is >>rather less clear. > > Not so unclear - perhaps unknown. > > A City bylaw allows cyclists with a tire size of 61cm or 24 inches or > less to ride on the sidewalk. The intent of this bylaw is to allow young > children to cycle on the sidewalk while they learn to ride. The bylaw is > based on wheel size because it is difficult for Police to enforce > age-based bylaws, as most children do not carry identification. This is > a municipal bylaw and rules vary in communities across Ontario. > http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/safety/sidewalk/sidewalk.htm > > A bicycle is classed as a "vehicle" under the Highway Traffic Act, and > is subject to the same laws as cars. > http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK0 > > Bike lanes are municipally created and maintained, and governed by > municipal bylaws. > > I take your point that many cyclists routinely disobey the law, and this > casts all cyclists in a poor light. ?However, I once tracked driver > errors over a month and found, in 1 hour of commuting per weekday, 11 > instances per week (average) of failure to stop, left turn not in safety > and failure to signal. ?These errors might be overlooked by drivers, but > to cyclists and pedestrians they are potentially fatal (potential > fatality was my threshold criteria for counting an error). Absolutely, positively, right on the money. Well said. > -- > > yours, > > William > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFL2Dl2HQtmiuz+KT8RAsMCAJ41SOzNYukqDCGVXQurJo3o1PJNJACfeWxB > ecTuc9ZiKpyUWDUo4SG6bAk= > =ChTD > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 15:53:35 2010 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 11:53:35 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Wednesday 28 April 2010 10:01:32 you wrote: > > A bicycle is classed as a "vehicle" under the Highway Traffic Act, and > > is subject to the same laws as cars. > > http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e. > >htm#BK0 > > I didn't quite see where it says that bicycles are subject to the same laws > as cars. Maybe it's buried in there somewhere. Bicycles are not allowed on > expressways, so there's a significant difference right there. Yes, they are. Two co-workers of mine, knowing we were having a Beer Call, decided to cycle home rather than drive a car. They were nabbed by the OPP on the shoulder of Highway 2 and charged with (among other things) DUI. Points off their licences. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 16:08:25 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 12:08:25 -0400 Subject: SCO says judge should order Novell to transfer Unix copyrights Message-ID: Will SCO ever learn, they already lost, but they just refuse to give up!: "The SCO Group is asking a federal judge to order Novell Inc. to turn copyrights to the Unix computer operating system over to SCO despite a jury verdict that said a 1995 sales agreement did not include those assets. "Lindon-based SCO told U.S. District Judge Ted Stewart that the jury did not address the issue that he is to decide when it reached its verdict March 30 in the long-running legal battle over the ownership of software that is used by many businesses. "The parties agreed before trial that Stewart would decide several questions in the lawsuit filed by SCO in 2003, including one in which SCO contends that Novell breached the sales agreements by not transferring copyrights that are necessary for it to conduct its Unix business. "In a document filed last week in court in Salt Lake City, SCO contends the jury did not answer the specific issue before Stewart that involves a legal principle called "specific performance," under which a party can ask a court to order another party to fulfill an aspect of an agreement." http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_14963578 -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 16:13:21 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 12:13:21 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100428161321.GA2616@yam.witteman.ca> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 11:53:35AM -0400, Gary Layng wrote: >On Wednesday 28 April 2010 10:01:32 you wrote: >> > A bicycle is classed as a "vehicle" under the Highway Traffic Act, and >> > is subject to the same laws as cars. >> > http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e. >> >htm#BK0 >> >> I didn't quite see where it says that bicycles are subject to the same laws >> as cars. Maybe it's buried in there somewhere. Bicycles are not allowed on >> expressways, so there's a significant difference right there. There are extra restrictions on bicycles, in addition to the other elements of the statute. >Yes, they are. Two co-workers of mine, knowing we were having a Beer Call, >decided to cycle home rather than drive a car. They were nabbed by the OPP on >the shoulder of Highway 2 and charged with (among other things) DUI. Points >off their licences. Your friends were almost certainly guilty of careless driving, but not "Operation while impaired", which specifies "motor vehicle": http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fra/C-46/page-6.html#codese:253 Still, too often cyclists (myself included) take liberties upon themselves which are unlawful. I tend to err on the side of safety under conditions of expedience (I don't do unsafe things, but I will cut attentively through a park) but this is, at best, a rationalization. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 17:16:17 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 13:16:17 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20100428171617.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 11:53:35AM -0400, Gary Layng wrote: > Yes, they are. Two co-workers of mine, knowing we were having a Beer Call, > decided to cycle home rather than drive a car. They were nabbed by the OPP on > the shoulder of Highway 2 and charged with (among other things) DUI. Points > off their licences. How is that possible? How can they get points on a license that has nothing to do with the bicycle? A bicycle doesn't need a license so they might as well not have had a license. Certainly according to this article http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/should-you-bike-if-youve-been-drinking/article1275035/ someone at the toronto police says a bicycle is NOT a vehicle under the law and hence DUI doesn't apply. You can be charged with careless driving or public intoxication, but not DUI. So you are either wrong, the toronto police officer quoted in the article is wrong, or someone screwed up the charges. I imagine any one of those is entirely possible, given finding any definitive answer seems rather hard. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 17:22:02 2010 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 13:22:02 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: <20100428171617.GD17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> <20100428171617.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BD86EBA.10605@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 11:53:35AM -0400, Gary Layng wrote: > >> Yes, they are. Two co-workers of mine, knowing we were having a Beer Call, >> decided to cycle home rather than drive a car. They were nabbed by the OPP on >> the shoulder of Highway 2 and charged with (among other things) DUI. Points >> off their licences. >> > > How is that possible? How can they get points on a license that has > nothing to do with the bicycle? A bicycle doesn't need a license so > they might as well not have had a license. > > Certainly according to this article > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/should-you-bike-if-youve-been-drinking/article1275035/ > someone at the toronto police says a bicycle is NOT a vehicle under > the law and hence DUI doesn't apply. You can be charged with careless > driving or public intoxication, but not DUI. > > So you are either wrong, the toronto police officer quoted in the article > is wrong, or someone screwed up the charges. I imagine any one of > those is entirely possible, given finding any definitive answer seems > rather hard. > > I see television commercials quite often in the summer reminding boaters that if they are caught with too much alcohol in their blood while operating a motorized boat, they get demaret points on their driver's licence. It is just a clause in a law. They could have just as easily made a reference to riding a bike while drunk. (Though I do not if they have or not). Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 17:29:56 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 13:29:56 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: <20100428171617.GD17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> <20100428171617.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4BD87094.8000207@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > How is that possible? How can they get points on a license that has > nothing to do with the bicycle? A bicycle doesn't need a license so > they might as well not have had a license. > > People have also earned points for operating a snow mobile or boat while impaired. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 17:31:43 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 13:31:43 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: <4BD86EBA.10605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> <20100428171617.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BD86EBA.10605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100428173143.GE17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 01:22:02PM -0400, Stephen wrote: > I see television commercials quite often in the summer reminding boaters > that if they are caught with too much alcohol in their blood while > operating a motorized boat, they get demaret points on their driver's > licence. But that is _motorized_. Bicycles are not. That apparently is the difference. It seems the law specifically applies to "motor vehicles". e-bikes do get covered (so motor assisted bicycles that is). Plain old bicycles are NOT covered by that. > It is just a clause in a law. > > They could have just as easily made a reference to riding a bike while > drunk. (Though I do not if they have or not). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 17:32:07 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 13:32:07 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: <4BD87094.8000207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> <20100428171617.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BD87094.8000207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20100428173207.GF17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 01:29:56PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> How is that possible? How can they get points on a license that has >> nothing to do with the bicycle? A bicycle doesn't need a license so >> they might as well not have had a license. >> >> > People have also earned points for operating a snow mobile or boat while > impaired. Sure, but those are motor vehicles. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 17:39:38 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 13:39:38 -0400 Subject: SCO says judge should order Novell to transfer Unix copyrights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > Will SCO ever learn, they already lost, but they just refuse to give up!: I used to really hate SCO, but if you want to learn something about making $$ while being total a @#$% there are things to learn here... Also remember that SCO paid the law firm of "Boies Schiller & Flexner" an up-front fee for this case to cover the case and ALL APPEALS. So, it costs nothing at all to SCO to launch the following. > "The SCO Group is asking a federal judge to order Novell Inc. to turn > copyrights to the Unix computer operating system over to SCO despite a > jury verdict that said a 1995 sales agreement did not include those > assets. > > "Lindon-based SCO told U.S. District Judge Ted Stewart that the jury > did not address the issue that he is to decide when it reached its > verdict March 30 in the long-running legal battle over the ownership > of software that is used by many businesses. > > "The parties agreed before trial that Stewart would decide several > questions in the lawsuit filed by SCO in 2003, including one in which > SCO contends that Novell breached the sales agreements by not > transferring copyrights that are necessary for it to conduct its Unix > business. > > "In a document filed last week in court in Salt Lake City, SCO > contends the jury did not answer the specific issue before Stewart > that involves a legal principle called "specific performance," under > which a party can ask a court to order another party to fulfill an > aspect of an agreement." > > http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_14963578 > > > > -- > Sincerely, > > Michael Lauzon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 17:58:02 2010 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 13:58:02 -0400 Subject: SCO says judge should order Novell to transfer Unix copyrights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At this point, as a business, do they have any other options? They are all-in. No point in folding now.... On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Michael Lauzon > wrote: > > Will SCO ever learn, they already lost, but they just refuse to give up!: > > I used to really hate SCO, but if you want to learn something about > making $$ while being total a @#$% there are things to learn here... > > Also remember that SCO paid the law firm of "Boies Schiller & Flexner" > an up-front fee for this case to cover the case and ALL APPEALS. So, > it costs nothing at all to SCO to launch the following. > > > "The SCO Group is asking a federal judge to order Novell Inc. to turn > > copyrights to the Unix computer operating system over to SCO despite a > > jury verdict that said a 1995 sales agreement did not include those > > assets. > > > > "Lindon-based SCO told U.S. District Judge Ted Stewart that the jury > > did not address the issue that he is to decide when it reached its > > verdict March 30 in the long-running legal battle over the ownership > > of software that is used by many businesses. > > > > "The parties agreed before trial that Stewart would decide several > > questions in the lawsuit filed by SCO in 2003, including one in which > > SCO contends that Novell breached the sales agreements by not > > transferring copyrights that are necessary for it to conduct its Unix > > business. > > > > "In a document filed last week in court in Salt Lake City, SCO > > contends the jury did not answer the specific issue before Stewart > > that involves a legal principle called "specific performance," under > > which a party can ask a court to order another party to fulfill an > > aspect of an agreement." > > > > http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_14963578 > > > > > > > > -- > > Sincerely, > > > > Michael Lauzon > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 18:01:41 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:01:41 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: <20100428173207.GF17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> <20100428171617.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BD87094.8000207@rogers.com> <20100428173207.GF17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Not sure if its right or not, but the article here say's drinking and riding your bike is not illegal. http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090902/090902_cyclist_past?hub=CP24Home On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 01:29:56PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> How is that possible? ?How can they get points on a license that has >>> nothing to do with the bicycle? ?A bicycle doesn't need a license so >>> they might as well not have had a license. >>> >>> >> People have also earned points for operating a snow mobile or boat while >> impaired. > > Sure, but those are motor vehicles. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 18:02:49 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:02:49 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> <20100428171617.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BD87094.8000207@rogers.com> <20100428173207.GF17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Here is the quotation from the article: --- There is no specific law that prohibits impaired bike riding, said Toronto lawyer Frank Addario, president of the Criminal Lawyers' Association. --- though its about an old case where someone on a bike was killed. On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Not sure if its right or not, but the article here say's drinking and > riding your bike is not illegal. > > http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090902/090902_cyclist_past?hub=CP24Home > > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 01:29:56PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>>> How is that possible? ?How can they get points on a license that has >>>> nothing to do with the bicycle? ?A bicycle doesn't need a license so >>>> they might as well not have had a license. >>>> >>>> >>> People have also earned points for operating a snow mobile or boat while >>> impaired. >> >> Sure, but those are motor vehicles. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > > > > Dave Germiquet > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 18:24:06 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:24:06 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: References: <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> <20100428171617.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BD87094.8000207@rogers.com> <20100428173207.GF17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100428182406.GG17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 02:01:41PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Not sure if its right or not, but the article here say's drinking and > riding your bike is not illegal. > > http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090902/090902_cyclist_past?hub=CP24Home Well it specifically says there is no specific law against it. That doesn't mean reckless driving can't be applied, or possible public intoxication. It almost certainly does mean that the laws on DUI do not apply to bicycles. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 18:39:13 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:39:13 -0400 Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: <20100428173143.GE17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> <20100428171617.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4BD86EBA.10605@rogers.com> <20100428173143.GE17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 01:22:02PM -0400, Stephen wrote: >> I see television commercials quite often in the summer reminding boaters >> that if they are caught with too much alcohol in their blood while >> operating a motorized boat, they get demaret points on their driver's >> licence. > > But that is _motorized_. ?Bicycles are not. ?That apparently is the > difference. ?It seems the law specifically applies to "motor vehicles". > e-bikes do get covered (so motor assisted bicycles that is). ?Plain old > bicycles are NOT covered by that. There's a motor - there's even two of them. They can also be termed as "pumping legs." :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 18:51:09 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:51:09 -0400 Subject: SCO says judge should order Novell to transfer Unix copyrights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Also remember that SCO paid the law firm of "Boies Schiller & Flexner" > an up-front fee for this case to cover the case and ALL APPEALS. So, > it costs nothing at all to SCO to launch the following. That was clearly a good deal for SCO :-). That could conceivably make it worthwhile for Boies Schiller & Flexner to try to disappear ;-) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 28 19:37:24 2010 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 15:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Any Cyclists? In-Reply-To: <20100428171617.GD17945-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20100428133446.GA986@yam.witteman.ca> <20100428171617.GD17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Apr 2010, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 11:53:35AM -0400, Gary Layng wrote: > > Yes, they are. Two co-workers of mine, knowing we were having a Beer Call, > > decided to cycle home rather than drive a car. They were nabbed by the OPP on > > the shoulder of Highway 2 and charged with (among other things) DUI. Points > > off their licences. > > How is that possible? How can they get points on a license that has > nothing to do with the bicycle? A bicycle doesn't need a license so > they might as well not have had a license. > > Certainly according to this article > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/should-you-bike-if-youve-been-drinking/article1275035/ > someone at the toronto police says a bicycle is NOT a vehicle under > the law and hence DUI doesn't apply. You can be charged with careless > driving or public intoxication, but not DUI. I was once charged with careless driving on a bicycle. It was dismissed because careless driving does not apply to bicycles. > So you are either wrong, the toronto police officer quoted in the article > is wrong, or someone screwed up the charges. I imagine any one of > those is entirely possible, given finding any definitive answer seems > rather hard. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 29 08:37:01 2010 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 08:37:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Firefox slowdown during big IO ops References: <20100421140617.GA17856@yam.witteman.ca> <87bpdchojp.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: It is customary to lower the scheduling priority of the large IO processes and in general of all heavy background tasks. The slowdown affects all programs but especially those which rely on polling or selecting on IO streams with timeouts. It has to do with the IO scheduling policy and with the type of preemptive-ness and IO policy the kernel was compiled with. There are kernel parameters to tune that. Server testing under load usually includes generating this type of load and the measures to improve the response are discussed in such contexts. On real-time kernels (CNC Linux etc) the problem does not exist, and for good reason, by design. There is no single answer to the problem. The problem also occurs when the system is swapping a lot, regardless whether the swapped pages are related to FF or to the server process which is involved. -- Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 29 18:29:26 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 14:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Firefox slowdown during big IO ops In-Reply-To: References: <20100421140617.GA17856@yam.witteman.ca> <87bpdchojp.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: | From: Peter | It is customary to lower the scheduling priority of the large IO processes and | in general of all heavy background tasks. What priority do you mean? Usually scheduling is about CPU allocation. Heavy I/O processes are usually waiting for I/O and thus don't use that much CPU and thus normally get high CPU priority from the traditional schedulers. Some schedulers do worry about "working set" and try to swap out processes that cannot be allocated enough real memory to avoid thrashing but I think that that is a separate issue. Some systems try to deduce which processes are interactive and give them higher priority on the assumption that users will notice. Stories of gaming such schedulers go back to at least the late 1960s. My theory of FireFox is that it is a monster program with really bad performance pathologies. It eats unbelieveable amounts of memory and CPU when used the way I do: long sessions with lots of windows and tabs. The obvious solutions are: switch browsers or fix FireFox. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 29 18:48:06 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 14:48:06 -0400 Subject: Firefox slowdown during big IO ops In-Reply-To: References: <20100421140617.GA17856@yam.witteman.ca> <87bpdchojp.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 2:29 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > My theory of FireFox is that it is a monster program with really bad > performance pathologies. ?It eats unbelieveable amounts of memory and > CPU when used the way I do: long sessions with lots of windows and > tabs. ?The obvious solutions are: switch browsers or fix FireFox. One recent change to it which has had highly visible performance effects was the embedding into it of SQLite. On the instance of Firefox I have running, it has the following series of databases: <2g2t7pva.default> ls -l *lite -rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 7168 Dec 7 13:38 content-prefs.sqlite -rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 454656 Apr 29 14:38 cookies.sqlite -rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 19456 Apr 16 14:15 downloads.sqlite -rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 110592 Apr 29 12:33 formhistory.sqlite -rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 2048 Mar 23 16:00 permissions.sqlite -rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 22573056 Apr 29 14:35 places.sqlite -rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 2048 Apr 27 15:03 search.sqlite -rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 44032 Apr 1 18:01 signons.sqlite -rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 71680 Jun 3 2009 stylish.sqlite -rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 32751616 Apr 29 14:09 urlclassifier3.sqlite -rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 6144 Jan 5 11:20 webappsstore.sqlite -rw-r--r-- 1 chris chris 2763776 Apr 28 21:25 ybookmarks.sqlite I tend to like this change, but it certainly comes at non-zero cost. a) The "places" database stores bookmarks, URLs you've visited, and data to fill into forms. Some of it seems excessive. b) Bookmarks also found in ybookmarks. Probably due to some extension. c) You're paying a lot for the "URL classifier." There was a serious performance bug a while back relating to this; every time SQLite does a COMMIT, this leads to an fsync() call, and with rather-over-avid use of this, people were seeing Firefox freeze up for 30 seconds on busy systems. Someone somewhat validly asks the merits of this: It seems to me that if you want a system that enables wild quantities of extensions, then it *IS* the right idea to stow all the data in a DBMS, because that enables the same data to be reused by other extensions. But for sure, Firefox has some issues of bloat. I wonder how much falls out of the interactions between XML processing, GUI rendering bits, and Javascript. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 29 19:35:47 2010 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:35:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hot plugging eSATA In-Reply-To: <20100405163516.GZ4308-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca> <20090811140445.GA3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100405163516.GZ4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | | On Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 12:14:33PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > I tried hotp lugging eSATA on my machine (HP Pavilion a6245n desktop | > with Intel G33 and ICH9R chipset). It didn't seem to work. | > | > I went to the BIOS and found | > Advanced: SATA1 controller mode [IDE] | > SATA2 Controller [Enabled] | > I switched to | > Advanced: SATA1 controller mode [AHCI] | > and the SATA2 line disappeard?!? | > | > I rebooted and hot plugging worked. At least kind of. | > - the default setting may be IDE or ATA preventing hot plug | | > - the reason might be that some versions of Windows don't come whith | > AHCI drivers. | | Like XP. | | And intel has been an ass in that they only provide AHCI drivers for | their older chipsets (like yours) if it is the R version (so ICH9R has | AHCI drivers, ICH9 does not). My machine came with Vista. I booted into Vista last night. During the boot process, it rebooted (back to POST screen and then grub). On the second boot, it claimed that I should go into a recovery mode. It offered to restore my whole system (probably losing my Linux partitions), so I declined. It suggested that I might have installed a new device and that I should undo this. Then I remembered that I'd changed this BIOS setting nearly three weeks ago, so I reversed it and was able to boot Vista. - what a horrible symptom - why would Vista not support AHCI. Especially since the Vista was provided (forced on me) by the hardware vendor (HP). A solution was provided in Microsoft Knowledge Base 922976. Almost. I used Vista's regedit to change two keys. (The KB suggests either would do; just doing one didn't work but two did.) So the driver is capable, just not willing to try without a wacky nudge. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 29 21:47:31 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:47:31 -0400 Subject: hot plugging eSATA In-Reply-To: References: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca> <20090811140445.GA3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20100405163516.GZ4308@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20100429214731.GH17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 03:35:47PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | Like XP. > | > | And intel has been an ass in that they only provide AHCI drivers for > | their older chipsets (like yours) if it is the R version (so ICH9R has > | AHCI drivers, ICH9 does not). > > My machine came with Vista. I booted into Vista last night. During > the boot process, it rebooted (back to POST screen and then grub). On > the second boot, it claimed that I should go into a recovery mode. It > offered to restore my whole system (probably losing my Linux > partitions), so I declined. It suggested that I might have installed > a new device and that I should undo this. > > Then I remembered that I'd changed this BIOS setting nearly three > weeks ago, so I reversed it and was able to boot Vista. > > - what a horrible symptom > > - why would Vista not support AHCI. Especially since the Vista was > provided (forced on me) by the hardware vendor (HP). > > A solution was provided in Microsoft Knowledge Base 922976. Almost. > I used Vista's regedit to change two keys. (The KB suggests either > would do; just doing one didn't work but two did.) So the driver is > capable, just not willing to try without a wacky nudge. Windows does NOT appriciate driver changes like that. Changing your SATA controller to AHCI changes the PCI id, the driver needed, and in fact the whole interface to the disk is changed. Windows has no reason to think it needs to load the AHCI driver, so it fails. If you had somehow installed the driver and convinced it that it should load that driver on next boot, then it ought to work. That's likely what the registry key did. Or if you had reinstalled it from scratch after changing the bios it would probably have detected the disk fine and been happy too. Having just read the KB article, that is exactly what the registery change does. It tells windows to load that driver at boot, which makes it work. Linux systems often try a lot more drivers at boot rather than just the ones matching previously detected hardware. Some would say linux is wasting valuable boot time, others consider linux to be more robust to hardware changes. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 13:21:14 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 09:21:14 -0400 Subject: somewhat OT. What do people think of Telus Message-ID: I'd really like to get a motorola milestone. Just not sure about telus BTW, If I do I will have a google dev phone for sale. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 13:41:02 2010 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 09:41:02 -0400 Subject: somewhat OT. What do people think of Telus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 09:21, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'd really like to get a motorola milestone. Just not sure about telus > > BTW, If I do I will have a google dev phone for sale. > > Dave > -- I have been with Telus since 2005, but only on pay-as-you-go, as every cell company wants me to give them a security deposit before they'd give me a monthly plan. Telus sucks, why, back in 2006 my cell account somehow got unregistered, and everytime I'd try to call out I'd get "You're cell is not currently active", and if someone tried to call me they'd get a busy signal. 3 weeks later they finally figured out what the problem is, instead of taking the blame, because it happened on their system they blamed me, and then gave me 10 credit at 25 cents a minute, like that would make it all better. So, stay away from Telus, find another cell provider. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 13:41:03 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 09:41:03 -0400 Subject: somewhat OT. What do people think of Telus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm interested too. I'll probably get a post-paid account this month and since everybody hates Rogers and Bell, I'd like to know if you people hate Telus equally. On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 09:21, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'd really like to get a motorola milestone. Just not sure about telus > > BTW, If I do I will have a google dev phone for sale. > > Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 14:21:18 2010 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:21:18 -0400 Subject: somewhat OT. What do people think of Telus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100430142118.GA27331@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 09:41:03AM -0400, Fabio FZero wrote: >I'm interested too. I'll probably get a post-paid account this month >and since everybody hates Rogers and Bell, I'd like to know if you >people hate Telus equally. I suspect that because the CRTC is chaired and run by former industry people that they are a "captured" regulator - i.e. they are incapable of advocating for the consumer in a consistent and dedicated way. As such, no telco is going to have any incentive to suck less than their competitors. The loophole that I have found is using resellers whose value proposition is not being a**holes (vis Teksavvy). In my experience, Fido/Rogers, Bell and Telus could all suck-start a leaf-blower - their policies and behaviours look outright antisocial. When I started with Fido they had not been bought by Rogers (once that happened their customer service vanished) and they were slightly less offensive, but ultimately I go with a provider using a more flexible, standards-based platform (GSM: Rogers, Fido) than one encumbered by a nasty patent-holder (Qualcomm) (CDMA: Telus, Bell). I have not looked hard at Wind or Virgin or Koodo, but I plan to relatively soon. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 14:36:57 2010 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:36:57 -0400 Subject: somewhat OT. What do people think of Telus In-Reply-To: <20100430142118.GA27331-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100430142118.GA27331@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: William, I think bell is less encumbered by this now that they are using UMTS > standards-based platform (GSM: Rogers, Fido) than one encumbered by a > nasty patent-holder (Qualcomm) (CDMA: Telus, Bell). ?I have not looked > hard at Wind or Virgin or Koodo, but I plan to relatively soon. Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 14:40:26 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:40:26 -0400 Subject: somewhat OT. What do people think of Telus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BDAEBDA.7040900@rogers.com> Dave Cramer wrote: > I'd really like to get a motorola milestone. Just not sure about telus > > BTW, If I do I will have a google dev phone for sale. > > I used to use Telus at work. The service was terrible, although that might have been due to a crappy Samsung phone. When we switched to Motorola Razr phones on Rogers, the call quality improved greatly. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 14:41:17 2010 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:41:17 -0400 Subject: somewhat OT. What do people think of Telus In-Reply-To: <20100430142118.GA27331-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100430142118.GA27331@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:21 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 09:41:03AM -0400, Fabio FZero wrote: >>I'm interested too. I'll probably get a post-paid account this month >>and since everybody hates Rogers and Bell, I'd like to know if you >>people hate Telus equally. > > I suspect that because the CRTC is chaired and run by former industry > people that they are a "captured" regulator - i.e. they are incapable of > advocating for the consumer in a consistent and dedicated way. ?As such, > no telco is going to have any incentive to suck less than their > competitors. ?The loophole that I have found is using resellers whose > value proposition is not being a**holes (vis Teksavvy). > > In my experience, Fido/Rogers, Bell and Telus could all suck-start a > leaf-blower - their policies and behaviours look outright antisocial. > When I started with Fido they had not been bought by Rogers (once that > happened their customer service vanished) and they were slightly less > offensive, but ultimately I go with a provider using a more flexible, > standards-based platform (GSM: Rogers, Fido) than one encumbered by a > nasty patent-holder (Qualcomm) (CDMA: Telus, Bell). ?I have not looked > hard at Wind or Virgin or Koodo, but I plan to relatively soon. Koodo is just Telus rebranded and Virgin was bought out by Bell (they had already owned 50%). So looking into them is probably not worth it. -- Mark Lane -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 14:47:15 2010 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:47:15 -0400 Subject: somewhat OT. What do people think of Telus In-Reply-To: References: <20100430142118.GA27331@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: Well, I am with Telus for a long time and have had no problems with them and they've always been great with me. They can be a bit pricy but I'm thinking people's rates will go down when Mobilicity (Dave's Mobility) and Wind Mobile get settled. Wind Mobile has the cheapest rates, not sure the quality. I don't know if i'd buy the google milestone as I think you can't install custom firmware on it if you wanna take that option. If I were you i'd also make sure you get a google phone with Android 2.1. I've heard good things about The Droid, I personally know the Nexus One is amazing, but I don't think you can get that subsidized with a contract. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 15:51:29 2010 From: fabio.fzero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Fabio FZero) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:51:29 -0400 Subject: somewhat OT. What do people think of Telus In-Reply-To: References: <20100430142118.GA27331@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: >From what I see, I'll probably stick with Virgin and get a plan + phone from them. I'll just wait a while to see if iPhone 4G is worth it -- and if it's not I'll probably get a nicer price on a 3GS. FZ On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:47, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Well, I am with Telus for a long time and have had no problems with > them and they've always been great with me. They can be a bit pricy > but I'm thinking people's rates will go down when Mobilicity (Dave's > Mobility) and Wind Mobile get settled. > > Wind Mobile has the cheapest rates, not sure the quality. ?I don't > know if i'd buy the google milestone as I think you can't install > custom firmware on it if you wanna take that option. If I were you i'd > also make sure you get a google phone with Android 2.1. > > I've heard good things about The Droid, I personally know the Nexus > One is amazing, but I don't think you can get that subsidized with a > contract. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 15:58:34 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:58:34 +0000 Subject: somewhat OT. What do people think of Telus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Fabio FZero wrote: > I'm interested too. I'll probably get a post-paid account this month > and since everybody hates Rogers and Bell, I'd like to know if you > people hate Telus equally. Those that I know that use Telus despise them to a very similar degree to which others despise Rogers and Bell. As commented downstream, they all exist in the same captive regulatory environment, so there is plenty of reason for them to be exceedingly similar in how they treat customers. They are all regulated, organized, and financed in mighty similar ways, and fit into the telephony environment in essentially similar ways, so any differences that emerge seem pretty temporary. People have coined the term "Robellus" to characterize all three at once. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 15:58:49 2010 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:58:49 -0400 Subject: somewhat OT. What do people think of Telus In-Reply-To: <20100430142118.GA27331-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20100430142118.GA27331@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4BDAFE39.6040807@rogers.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have not looked > hard at Wind or Virgin or Koodo, but I plan to relatively soon. I believe Koodo is Telus's 2nd line and Virgin is on Bell. IIRC Wind roams on Rogers, when their own network isn't available. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 16:11:10 2010 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:11:10 +0000 Subject: somewhat OT. What do people think of Telus In-Reply-To: <4BDAFE39.6040807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20100430142118.GA27331@yam.witteman.ca> <4BDAFE39.6040807@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:58 PM, James Knott wrote: > William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> >> I have not looked >> hard at Wind or Virgin or Koodo, but I plan to relatively soon. > > I believe Koodo is Telus's 2nd line and Virgin is on Bell. ?IIRC Wind roams > on Rogers, when their own network isn't available. You could also throw in that: - Fido is the "downmarket" captive of Rogers - Bell has 2 "downmarket" lines in "Solo Mobile" (operating for many years) along with the recent Virgin Mobile acquisition. Wind does indeed roam on Rogers; it's not quite like the others in that Wind is not in any sense owned by Rogers. There are more two cell providers around: - Public Mobile, which is targeted at the low income, low mobility market. If you leave their coverage area, you have NO service. Thus, at this point, the moment you leave Toronto, your phone stops working, and you might just as well shut it off. - Mobilicity, once called "Dave" (I thought Dave was a pretty cool name), will be quite similar in service offerings to Wind, once they open. Supposedly "in the spring." It already seems pretty Spring-like, to me... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 16:16:55 2010 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 12:16:55 -0400 Subject: somewhat OT. What do people think of Telus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100430161655.GI17945@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 09:21:14AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > I'd really like to get a motorola milestone. Just not sure about telus > > BTW, If I do I will have a google dev phone for sale. I have no idea what Telus is like as a company. I know bell can be a bit annoying at times. personally I will never go back to a CDMA system again. Having a SIM card means I can buy a new phone if it breaks. I am not restricted to what the phone company wants to sell me. I can also borrow another phone trivially. Loaner phones from Bell for example are quite a hassle. I suspect they are from Bell too. I am currently on Rogers, but may consider one of the new startups when my current contract ends, as long as it is GSM based. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 30 17:27:01 2010 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:27:01 -0400 Subject: Reminder - Linux in the Park Message-ID: Just a reminder that Saturday May 1st will be Linux in the Park, Details can be seen here: http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/ Colin McGregpr -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists