From gwalsh-BSvtlmuW8nk at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 00:22:50 2009 From: gwalsh-BSvtlmuW8nk at public.gmane.org (Gary Walsh) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:22:50 -0400 Subject: gmail mail client? In-Reply-To: <4A9C535C.6080406-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A9C535C.6080406@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1251764570.10166.13.camel@shuttle> On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 02:49 +0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > Is there a non-web browser mail client that will let me access gmail > > directly and also group conversations and allow me to filter message > > to different folders? > > > > > Gmail allows POP and SMTP access at ports listed at their web site. I > use Thunderbird at the moment but many other will do. So, you have a big > choice. Just try the one you like. > Gmail also allows IMAP access. Gmail labels = Imap folders. -- Gary -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 00:55:19 2009 From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (tug) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:55:19 -0400 Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not... In-Reply-To: <4A8FCEC4.9040509-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com> <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com> <4A8FCEC4.9040509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A9C70F7.5010203@gmail.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Working with MySQL is like doing administrative job. Nothing wrong > with that. But it is mostly not exciting at all. > > Working with Postgres is a creative adventure, never ending. Thats it. > Nothing else can count for me more than just that. > > zb. > I guess I live in a different world... To me a database is something that, alas, needs to be administered, I'm certainly not looking for "adventure" with databases. My ideal database would be admin and adventure free.... ;-) tug -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 00:55:38 2009 From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (tug) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:55:38 -0400 Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not... In-Reply-To: <4A8F2AE8.6050408-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com> <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com> <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com> <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com> <4A8EF152.500@dinamis.com> <4A8F11B9.1080809@alteeve.com> <4A8F2AE8.6050408@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4A9C710A.7060208@gmail.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 21/08/09 05:29 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> If I do indeed give this talk, it >> would only be after coming up with some evidence to back it up. >> > > > You can start by reading the materials on the various web sites I've > already referenced starting with the famous "Oops, we did it again" blog > post by Monty Widenius. > This a criticism of the release management process, not of the software itself. True, I expect most users are more interested in the suitability of the Product over the beauty of the Software... but fixing release management should be easier than fixing ugly software. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 00:57:30 2009 From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (tug) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:57:30 -0400 Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not... In-Reply-To: References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com> <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com> <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com> <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com> <4A8EF152.500@dinamis.com> <4A8F11B9.1080809@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4A9C717A.9070300@gmail.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Fri, 21 Aug 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> To do that though, I'd first need an idea of what each claims is >> their strength and investigate what each claims is the other's >> weakness. I'd need to come up with some code to actually test these >> assertions and make the code available for others to reproduce. I'd >> need to find a set of ways to fail each system and gauge their >> ability to recover. > > That sounds like a really good way to approach the problem. Two philosophers are going for a walk, when the hear people shouting at each other across the street from their upstairs windows. One turns to the other and says - "These people will NEVER come to an agreement. They're arguing from different premises" :) A less emotive issue is to evaluate for "suitability" for a given task. Something like the following projects - http://osdb.sourceforge.net/ (seems not to be active) - http://polepos.sourceforge.net/ (seems to be more active) The test cases that interest me personally are trivial - and as such I think both Postges and MySql are sufficiently sufficient. 1) Running a single (maybe dual) user phpBB 2) Using a simple set of tables for recording data and loading it into application memory for processing. (think historical market data, texts for writing style analysis) 3) etc... ? Other people may have slightly higher requirements of their databases I'm sure. :) Tests should benchmark databases from open source projects only so - everyone can know the database requirements, - someone else has to deal with database compatibility - if a given database performs poorly on a given engine due to suboptimal use, then the champions of "ugly suboptimal baby" can improve the application if they care enough Ideally this could be a live CD that could be used to automatically perform comparable tests on a wide variety of hardware. Results - low hanging fruit... - Measures of performance. - Measures of reliability - ANSI compliance - etc? Subjective fruits... - ease of use / documentation - quality - future quality - etc...? tug -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 01:40:25 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:40:25 -0400 Subject: gmail mail client? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A9C7B89.9070402@rogers.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Is there a non-web browser mail client that will let me access gmail > directly and also group conversations and allow me to filter message > to different folders? > > Any email client that uses pop or imap & smtp should work fine. I use Seamonkey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 02:05:40 2009 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:05:40 -0400 Subject: gmail mail client? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 6:34 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Is there a non-web browser mail client that will let me access gmail > directly and also group conversations and allow me to filter message > to different folders? > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Thunderbird works well with gmail and the Zindus attachment works really well keeping the contacts update. -- Mark Lane -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 11:33:17 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 08:33:17 -0300 Subject: gmail mail client? In-Reply-To: <4A9C58E9.90105-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A9C533F.9050205@rogers.com> <4A9C58E9.90105@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1089a0320909010433q46534dfcx91c6db062bde12f0@mail.gmail.com> I don't think you'll get everything working as in your gmail web client. :/ I never found these functions in thunderbird. --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - ^ ^ GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Stephen wrote: >> >> Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>> >>> Is there a non-web browser mail client that will let me access gmail >>> directly and also group conversations and allow me to filter message >>> to different folders? >>> >>> >> >> Yes. >> >> Thunderbird. > > Thanks just installed it and replying from Thunderbird. now just to figure > out how to group threads and set up the filters I had in my gmail web > account. > >> >> Stephen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 14:59:20 2009 From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (tug) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:59:20 -0400 Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not... In-Reply-To: <4A8F2AE8.6050408-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com> <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com> <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com> <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com> <4A8EF152.500@dinamis.com> <4A8F11B9.1080809@alteeve.com> <4A8F2AE8.6050408@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4A9D36C8.30202@gmail.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 21/08/09 05:29 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> If I do indeed give this talk, it >> would only be after coming up with some evidence to back it up. >> > > > You can start by reading the materials on the various web sites I've > already referenced starting with the famous "Oops, we did it again" blog > post by Monty Widenius. > This a criticism of the release management process, not of the software itself. True, I expect most users are more interested in the suitability of the Product over the beauty of the Software... but fixing release management should be easier than fixing ugly software. tug -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 15:45:59 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 11:45:59 -0400 Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not... In-Reply-To: <4A9C717A.9070300-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com> <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com> <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com> <4A8EF152.500@dinamis.com> <4A8F11B9.1080809@alteeve.com> <4A9C717A.9070300@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:57 PM, tug wrote: > The test cases that interest me personally are trivial - and as such I think > both Postges and MySql are sufficiently sufficient. > 1) Running a single (maybe dual) user phpBB > 2) Using a simple set of tables for recording data and loading it into > application memory for processing. (think historical market data, texts for > writing style analysis) > 3) etc... ? Yes, for such cases, you're almost certainly right. If your requirements are sufficiently trivial, then there's little reason to strongly prefer either option. Indeed, I think both might even be overkill for a lot of "web application" scenarios; for sufficiently simple systems that do not require concurrency, SQLite is quite likely to be preferable to either Postgres or MySQL(tm). - DB in single file... - Runs as a library added onto your app - Intentionally sparse in overall functionality, but tends to be a bit better than the "elderly MySQL(tm) releases" that used to be a common "lowest common denominator" > Other people may have slightly higher requirements of their databases I'm > sure. :) Yeah, and (to grouse a little :-)) if you're looking for a comparison, then that suggests that you might be interested in the sorts of characteristics that *would* distinguish between the systems. If your needs are so modest that the distinguishing characteristics don't matter, well, that's a little sad... > Tests should benchmark databases from open source projects only so > - everyone can know the database requirements, > - someone else has to deal with database compatibility > - if a given database performs poorly on a given engine due to suboptimal > use, then the champions of "ugly suboptimal baby" can improve the > application if they care enough > > Ideally this could be a live CD that could be used to automatically perform > comparable tests on a wide variety of hardware. The trouble is that this isn't necessarily in vendors' interests. If you do this sort of thing with Oracle or Microsoft's port of Sybase, you're liable to get *sued* because they don't want any numbers published unless they release them. It's also not necessarily in Oracle's interests (as apparent owners of the MySQL trademark), as it doesn't necessarily allow their product (they bought MySQL(tm) when they bought Sun) to be seen in the best possible light. Traditionally... - Most benchmarks involving MySQL(tm) involved using single-user non-concurrent, non-transactional loads, which is a kind of load where MyISAM "plays best," and where nothing else looks nearly as good. - On the other hand, a benchmark with more than about 4 concurrent heavy-hitting update processes will grind MyISAM to a halt (table locking's a problem!). - Strangely, you see almost *no* benchmarks involving InnoDB (and since Oracle has owned it for quite some time, you almost certainly won't be allowed to publish one); note that this would be the "concurrent load" optimization for MySQL(tm) > Results - low hanging fruit... > - Measures of performance. > - Measures of reliability > - ANSI compliance > - etc? > > Subjective fruits... > - ease of use / documentation > - quality > - future quality > - etc...? I'm a little curious as to what's falling out of all the MySQL(tm) forks (e.g. - Drizzle, MariaDB, Percona, OurDelta, in addition to MySQL(tm) and InnoDB). The division of efforts is almost certainly a bad thing for MySQL(tm), as it generally can't make use of any of the code contributed to the others. It'll be interesting to see what falls out after another year or so. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Ted Turner - "Sports is like a war without the killing." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/ted_turner.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 12:39:57 2009 From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:39:57 -0400 Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not... In-Reply-To: <4A9C70F7.5010203-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com> <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com> <4A8FCEC4.9040509@gmail.com> <4A9C70F7.5010203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1251808797.9660.4.camel@cougar-hardy> On Mon, 2009-08-31 at 20:55 -0400, tug wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > > Working with MySQL is like doing administrative job. Nothing wrong > > with that. But it is mostly not exciting at all. > > > > Working with Postgres is a creative adventure, never ending. Thats it. > > Nothing else can count for me more than just that. > > > > zb. > > > I guess I live in a different world... To me a database is something > that, alas, needs to be administered, I'm certainly not looking for > "adventure" with databases. My ideal database would be admin and > adventure free.... ;-) For simplicity of administration, it is hard to beat a database management system built into the operating system: . Indeed, few installations of IBM DB2 for i recognize "DBA" as a job title. Having a database system always available changes the way you work. Passing a table from one program to another is not quite as easy as a pipe operator in a bash command, but it is close. Cheers, Terry, rent-a-geek and database bithead -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 20:52:30 2009 From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (tug) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:52:30 -0400 Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not... In-Reply-To: References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com> <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com> <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com> <4A8EF152.500@dinamis.com> <4A8F11B9.1080809@alteeve.com> <4A9C717A.9070300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A9D898E.5030007@gmail.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:57 PM, tug wrote: > > If you do this sort of thing with Oracle or Microsoft's port of > Sybase, you're liable to get *sued* because they don't want any > numbers published unless they release them. > > It's also not necessarily in Oracle's interests (as apparent owners of > the MySQL trademark), as it doesn't necessarily allow their product > (they bought MySQL(tm) when they bought Sun) to be seen in the best > possible light. > > In the early 90s one of my colleagues was an ex worker for a major DB company, he told me they had a pre-processor flag BENCHMARK, which was used to disable performance impacting code, like error checking. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 21:55:49 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:55:49 -0400 Subject: gmail mail client? In-Reply-To: <1089a0320909010433q46534dfcx91c6db062bde12f0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A9C533F.9050205@rogers.com> <4A9C58E9.90105@gmail.com> <1089a0320909010433q46534dfcx91c6db062bde12f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A9D9865.5050303@gmail.com> Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > I don't think you'll get everything working as in your gmail web client. :/ > I never found these functions in thunderbird. I got filters setup so I don't get everything dumped into the inbox, but I really like the way gmail threaded the messages that was cool and something I was looking for in a mail client. -- Kind Regards, Rajider Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 22:20:16 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:20:16 -0400 Subject: looking for a new host Message-ID: <4A9D9E20.4030701@gmail.com> I have an account with the following host: http://www.siteground.com/ It is coming up for renewal, I like these guys they have been pretty rock solid and have no complaints except for the fact they are offering new clients a bit more saving than existing client? I posted this on their facebook and they silently deleted my question and did not even provide a reply. So I posted this up again and called them up on their lack of integrity. Anyways its a good time to go shopping before I get locked down again. I am wondering if anyone else can recommend me a few good hosts I can compare. I have till Sept 19 to decide before they try to auto-renew. I am looking for a Linux host that will allow me to easily install stuff or provide a way to easily do this. I am also looking for a host that supports Ruby on Rails. -- Kind Regards, Rajider Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 23:25:26 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 20:25:26 -0300 Subject: looking for a new host In-Reply-To: <4A9D9E20.4030701-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A9D9E20.4030701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1089a0320909011625j25b70abfscbe5f1496fb62d4b@mail.gmail.com> You should take a look at www.dreamhost.com. The best one in my opinion. ;] cheers On 9/1/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I have an account with the following host: http://www.siteground.com/ > It is coming up for renewal, I like these guys they have been pretty rock > solid and have no complaints except for the fact they are offering new > clients a bit more saving than existing client? > > I posted this on their facebook and they silently deleted my question and > did not even provide a reply. So I posted this up again and called them up > on their lack of integrity. > > Anyways its a good time to go shopping before I get locked down again. I am > wondering if anyone else can recommend me a few good hosts I can compare. I > have till Sept 19 to decide before they try to auto-renew. > > I am looking for a Linux host that will allow me to easily install stuff or > provide a way to easily do this. I am also looking for a host that supports > Ruby on Rails. > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajider Yadav > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - ^ ^ GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 23:33:03 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 20:33:03 -0300 Subject: gmail mail client? In-Reply-To: <4A9D9865.5050303-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A9C533F.9050205@rogers.com> <4A9C58E9.90105@gmail.com> <1089a0320909010433q46534dfcx91c6db062bde12f0@mail.gmail.com> <4A9D9865.5050303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1089a0320909011633u16117a6pac05ee4adf33dbdf@mail.gmail.com> Yeah.. I know what u mean.. Gmail is the best one in this case. I used to have some email accounts configured in my thunderbird.. But not my gmail accounts. The way gmail agroups emails in tags with the same Subject is perfect to keep our inbox clean and light. :p On 9/1/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I got filters setup so I don't get everything dumped into the inbox, but I > really like the way gmail threaded the messages that was cool and something > I was looking for in a mail client. > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajider Yadav --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - ^ ^ GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 1 23:35:08 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: looking for a new host In-Reply-To: <4A9D9E20.4030701-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A9D9E20.4030701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <820217.90831.qm@web59516.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Just food for thought. :) I have a free account with http://50webs.com/ and I have no complaints. Its working out well for me. Good luck on your search. Abby ________________________________ From: Rajinder Yadav To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 6:20:16 PM Subject: [TLUG]: looking for a new host I have an account with the following host: http://www.siteground.com/ It is coming up for renewal, I like these guys they have been pretty rock solid and have no complaints except for the fact they are offering new clients a bit more saving than existing client? I posted this on their facebook and they silently deleted my question and did not even provide a reply. So I posted this up again and called them up on their lack of integrity. Anyways its a good time to go shopping before I get locked down again. I am wondering if anyone else can recommend me a few good hosts I can compare. I have till Sept 19 to decide before they try to auto-renew. I am looking for a Linux host that will allow me to easily install stuff or provide a way to easily do this. I am also looking for a host that supports Ruby on Rails. -- Kind Regards, Rajider Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 2 01:21:40 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:21:40 -0400 Subject: looking for a new host In-Reply-To: <4A9D9E20.4030701-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A9D9E20.4030701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A9DC8A4.10006@alteeve.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I have an account with the following host: http://www.siteground.com/ > It is coming up for renewal, I like these guys they have been pretty > rock solid and have no complaints except for the fact they are offering > new clients a bit more saving than existing client? > > I posted this on their facebook and they silently deleted my question > and did not even provide a reply. So I posted this up again and called > them up on their lack of integrity. > > Anyways its a good time to go shopping before I get locked down again. I > am wondering if anyone else can recommend me a few good hosts I can > compare. I have till Sept 19 to decide before they try to auto-renew. > > I am looking for a Linux host that will allow me to easily install stuff > or provide a way to easily do this. I am also looking for a host that > supports Ruby on Rails. If I can pitch the company I work for; http://iplink.net. Very Linux friendly (we're linux pretty much front to back), have shared hosting, virtual servers and real dedicated servers and shared or dedicated rack space for whatever suits you. Our main claim to fame is that we are right downtown and have a very nice connection to the Internet. We're not large, but we are friendly. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 2 14:03:49 2009 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:03:49 -0400 Subject: looking for a new host In-Reply-To: <4A9D9E20.4030701-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A9D9E20.4030701@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I have an account with the following host: http://www.siteground.com/ > It is coming up for renewal, I like these guys they have been pretty rock > solid and have no complaints except for the fact they are offering new > clients a bit more saving than existing client? > > I posted this on their facebook and they silently deleted my question and > did not even provide a reply. So I posted this up again and called them up > on their lack of integrity. > > Anyways its a good time to go shopping before I get locked down again. I am > wondering if anyone else can recommend me a few good hosts I can compare. I > have till Sept 19 to decide before they try to auto-renew. > > I am looking for a Linux host that will allow me to easily install stuff or > provide a way to easily do this. I am also looking for a host that supports > Ruby on Rails. I can highly recommend pair.com [1]. They may not be the cheapest option, but they are very reliable [2,3]. I've been with them for close to ten years. Their servers have Ruby installed [4], though I haven't used RoR myself. And I wouldn't put a lot of faith into an organization that arbitrarily deletes customer comments. Good luck. Alex 1. http://www.pair.com/services/web_hosting/ 2. http://www.pair.com/support/knowledge_base/our_network_and_servers/network_status.html 3. http://www.pair.com/support/system_notices.html 4. http://www.pair.com/support/knowledge_base/our_network_and_servers/installed_ruby_gems.html -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 2 14:55:21 2009 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 10:55:21 -0400 Subject: .pptx File Message-ID: <4A9E8759.5030408@sympatico.ca> Anyone been able to read a .pptx file (powerpoint from Win Office 2007)? I couldn't get my version of OpenOffice (2.2.1) to read it. A google search shows that OpenOffice should do it. Thanks, John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 2 15:00:59 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 12:00:59 -0300 Subject: .pptx File In-Reply-To: <4A9E8759.5030408-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A9E8759.5030408@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1089a0320909020800o43273c5crb083c03e72e155c6@mail.gmail.com> Hi John, You can only open it with OpenOffice.org >= 3.0. ;] Try to update your openoffice.org and try again. All the files created with MS Office 2007, like docx, pptx, and others, can be opened with OpenOffice.org 3... cheers --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - ^ ^ GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:55 AM, John Moniz wrote: > Anyone been able to read a .pptx file (powerpoint from Win Office 2007)? I > couldn't get my version of OpenOffice (2.2.1) to read it. A google search > shows that OpenOffice should do it. > > Thanks, > > John. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 2 15:13:10 2009 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 11:13:10 -0400 Subject: .pptx File In-Reply-To: <1089a0320909020800o43273c5crb083c03e72e155c6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A9E8759.5030408@sympatico.ca> <1089a0320909020800o43273c5crb083c03e72e155c6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A9E8B86.9090009@sympatico.ca> I guess it's time to upgrade OpenOffice. Muito obrigado! Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Hi John, > > You can only open it with OpenOffice.org >= 3.0. ;] > > Try to update your openoffice.org and try again. > > All the files created with MS Office 2007, like docx, pptx, and > others, can be opened with OpenOffice.org 3... > > cheers > > --- > > - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib > - /(_)\ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 > - ^ ^ GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro > - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org > - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org > - KDE Brasil Member > - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group > - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net > > > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:55 AM, John Moniz wrote: > >> Anyone been able to read a .pptx file (powerpoint from Win Office 2007)? I >> couldn't get my version of OpenOffice (2.2.1) to read it. A google search >> shows that OpenOffice should do it. >> >> Thanks, >> >> John. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 2 15:56:36 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 12:56:36 -0300 Subject: .pptx File In-Reply-To: <4A9E8B86.9090009-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A9E8759.5030408@sympatico.ca> <1089a0320909020800o43273c5crb083c03e72e155c6@mail.gmail.com> <4A9E8B86.9090009@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1089a0320909020856i137732c8o5360b3840e212d62@mail.gmail.com> I think so.. "Disponha" you're welcome --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - ^ ^ GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:13 PM, John Moniz wrote: > I guess it's time to upgrade OpenOffice. > > Muito obrigado! > > Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: >> >> Hi John, >> >> You can only open it with OpenOffice.org ?>= 3.0. ;] >> >> Try to update your openoffice.org and try again. >> >> All the files created with MS Office 2007, like docx, pptx, and >> others, can be opened with OpenOffice.org 3... >> >> cheers >> >> --- >> >> - ??v? ? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib >> - /(_)\ ?Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 >> - ?^ ^ ? GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro >> - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org >> - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org >> - KDE Brasil Member >> - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group >> - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net >> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:55 AM, John Moniz >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Anyone been able to read a .pptx file (powerpoint from Win Office 2007)? >>> I >>> couldn't get my version of OpenOffice (2.2.1) to read it. A google search >>> shows that OpenOffice should do it. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> John. >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 2 21:31:54 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:31:54 -0700 Subject: OpenLDAP replication (syncrepl), duplicates and entryUUIDs Message-ID: <3a97ef0909021431m3e46ff1ck3e488fc962408768@mail.gmail.com> I've been having some issues with syncrepl and our LDAP configuration. When setting up or rebuilding an LDAP consumer (client) I : * Make sure that LDAP on consumer is stopped, and any existing /var/lib/ldap/* is wiped out (exempting DB_CONFIG) * Make a full copy of the master, using ldapsearch to build an LDIF * GZIP the LDIF, send to consumer, unzip, and import on the consumer using "slapadd -q -c -l /path/to/ldap_backup.ldif" * Start LDAP on consumer The client works well until an entry has the DN changed on the master, at which point I end up with two copies of a given person with different DN's. I don't get duplicate entries on the *other* consumers, just one that was recently wiped/rebuilt I believe it might be because our master is missing entryUUIDs. As the setup here was pre-existing before I got here, it may have been and older version of OpenLDAP that didn't have them. I'm not sure how to create entryUUIDs on existing entries and go forth with them. Anyone have any insights into this? Thanks, - Tyler -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 17:50:05 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 13:50:05 -0400 Subject: possible small contract to implement this Linux-Windows TCP/IP protocol in Windows VB In-Reply-To: <200908261823.55342.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200908261823.55342.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880909031050q142b9623mf107cabb9a52ae1c@mail.gmail.com> Did you ever get a response from anyone regarding this? I would be interested however I don't have a VB Studio (VB.NET Studio) that I can use. I think there's licensing on that isn't there? The other thing is I'm not sure how long it'll take me to catch up, its been awhile since i've used both. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:23 PM, bob 295 wrote: > I have a client who needs this implemented in VB to enable a larger project to > go forward. ?I am strictly a Linux developer and don't even have a Windows > box any more. > > This is the protocol: > > http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl/tclSurrogate.html > > It has already been implemented in C, Tcl/Tk, Python and JAVA. ? ?About 7 > years ago a trusted SIMPL user implemented it in VB and reported it worked > well. ?Alas he never got around to contributing the VB implementation back to > the SIMPL project and his hard drive was later wiped and reused. > > If you are (or anyone you know is) interested contact me offlist. > > bob > PS. > The main SIMPL open source project site is: > http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 19:42:27 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 15:42:27 -0400 Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia In-Reply-To: <20090826211012.53e96d21-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090903194227.GM23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 09:10:12PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > In a recent update the kernel was upgraded to 2.6.30, but when I rebooted there > was no corresponding nvidia module, so for now I've been using 2.6.26. > > I thought there might be a more recent nvidia module in unstable, so I tried > that but I get: > > node1:/home/joehill# aptitude -t unstable install nvidia-glx > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > Reading extended state information > Initializing package states... Done > Writing extended state information... Done > Reading task descriptions... Done > The following packages are BROKEN: > nvidia-glx > The following packages will be REMOVED: > gnome-vfs-obexftp{u} libevolution5.0-cil{u} libhesiod0{u} libkadm5srv5{u} > libopal3.6.1{u} libpam-cracklib{u} libpt2.6.1{u} libusb-1.0-0{u} > libzephyr3{u} nvidia-kernel-2.6.26-1-686{u} > nvidia-kernel-2.6.26-2-686-bigmem{u} padevchooser{u} paman{u} paprefs{u} > pavumeter{u} pulseaudio-module-gconf{u} pulseaudio-module-zeroconf{u} > toolame{u} > 1 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 18 to remove and 426 not upgraded. > Need to get 7129kB of archives. After unpacking 33.2MB will be freed. > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > nvidia-glx: Depends: nvidia-kernel-185.18.31 which is a virtual package. > The following actions will resolve these dependencies: > > Remove the following packages: > nvidia-glx > > Score is -9881 > > Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?] > > Does this mean that nvidia-glx will be upgraded? It seems to be saying it will > be removed... Right. The nvidia kernel modules are not automatically built (yet). You have to build it yourself before upgrading nvidia-glx. You can simply do: m-a a-i -t nvidia or if you are not running the new kernel yet: m-a a-i -t nvidia -l 2.6.30-1-686 (or whatever your kernel is) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 19:43:59 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 15:43:59 -0400 Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0908270711y1ce8ff1bq312ec37383dec57-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com> <3a97ef0908270711y1ce8ff1bq312ec37383dec57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090903194359.GN23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 07:11:18AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Yes, it looks like it's removing nvidia-glx due to conflicts with > other packages on your system (maybe the newer kernel). > > AFAIK, "nv" is the open-source module and "nvidia" is the proprietary > implementation (and last time I checked "nv" didn't support most > 3d/acceleration features). If the driver from your distro doesn't > work, try downloading one straight from nvidia: > > http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us > > You'll need to turn off X to install, and run the downloaded (.run) > file from the CLI, but it may be a newer version that the conflicted > one in the distro. Please don't ever advise a debian (or ubuntu) user to use the nvidia installer. It will ALWAYS break eventually. Windows users may be happy using 3rd party installers along with the disaster that causes to system stability. No reason debian users have to be that stupid. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 19:50:11 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 15:50:11 -0400 Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique rather than language In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090903195011.GO23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 06:37:54PM -0500, colin davidson wrote: > Finally, observe the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) principle and, to > paraphrase Einstein, make your code as simple as it can be, and no simpler. > When you have finished writing something (be it a clause, a function or a > program), ask yourself "Is this code really clever?". If your answer is > "Yes!", ask yourself "Does it really need to be clever?". If your answer is > "Yes!", rewrite the damn thing. Unnecessarily clever code is bad code, > period. Once you get past the meaningless gobblydegook written by computer > language illiterates who call themselves coders (and practice will almost > certainly remedy this problem in anyone inherently capable of programming a > computer), the most common kind of bad code by far is "clever" code. This is very important. After all debuging is harder than coding, and if your code is very clever, then you probably aren't smart enough to debug it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 19:59:41 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 15:59:41 -0400 Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique rather than language In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090903195941.GP23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:18:00AM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Why not find an OpenSource project to join and help out in? See if you > might like WxWidget, join their forum, ask questions, not for you than > try some other project. I just picked this project out of thin air, > I've look at WxWidget and it's design is based on Windows MFC > framework which is a C++ project. > > The real skill you will need to develop and one a lot of new > programmers overlook is learning how to read and understand someone > else code and more to the point extend functionality. Learn how to > debug someone else code and deconstruct it so you can see the design > using such techniques as UML modeling. > > I would pick an OO language over a procedural language. You can always > program a procedural program in an OO language. If you come for a > procedural language background you will been hard pressed to > understand OO concepts let alone debug such programs when things like > virtual function and polymorphic behaviour come into play. I struggled > with this one for a while when I got started. Well I am one of the people that think OO should be thrown away. It is not a great solution to the majority of problems and simply causes messy and less efficient code. Now this doesn't mean a language can't support OO and still be a great language, just that OO is not an amazing solution to everything. It has a few good uses but the majority of uses are crap. Java is of course crap because it makes everything use OO even where it has no benefit at all and only causes lots of pain and harm. > Programming in a art ;) there are many ways to do the right and wrong > thing. You will get this from experience overtime as you get exposed > to other people's codes and concepts. > > If you use the KISS principle, don't over design and your code is > functionally sound and well unit tested then you're in very good shape > IMHO. Pick a language suited to the task. If you are going to do lots of fidly text processing, C is going to hurt. Lots of languages do much better at handling text. If you are making a web page, php is really nice and simple, but be careful not to do stupid things that make it insecure. Python is lovely for quickly making rather complex little tasks, and because it has lots of external libraries (usually written in C to be fast and efficient) it can actually make rather fast applications. Perl is nice for quick little text processing hacks, but almost always ends up unmaintainable for anything larger. OCAML is nice if you want fast executables and a nice clean language with excellent type handling (which really can help avoid stupid bugs and errors). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 20:39:20 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:39:20 -0400 Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia In-Reply-To: <20090903194227.GM23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com> <20090903194227.GM23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090903163920.4494885d@teksavvy.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 09:10:12PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > > In a recent update the kernel was upgraded to 2.6.30, but when I rebooted > > there was no corresponding nvidia module, so for now I've been using 2.6.26. > > > > I thought there might be a more recent nvidia module in unstable, so I tried > > that but I get: > > > > node1:/home/joehill# aptitude -t unstable install nvidia-glx > > Reading package lists... Done > > Building dependency tree > > Reading state information... Done > > Reading extended state information > > Initializing package states... Done > > Writing extended state information... Done > > Reading task descriptions... Done > > The following packages are BROKEN: > > nvidia-glx > > The following packages will be REMOVED: > > gnome-vfs-obexftp{u} libevolution5.0-cil{u} libhesiod0{u} libkadm5srv5{u} > > libopal3.6.1{u} libpam-cracklib{u} libpt2.6.1{u} libusb-1.0-0{u} > > libzephyr3{u} nvidia-kernel-2.6.26-1-686{u} > > nvidia-kernel-2.6.26-2-686-bigmem{u} padevchooser{u} paman{u} paprefs{u} > > pavumeter{u} pulseaudio-module-gconf{u} pulseaudio-module-zeroconf{u} > > toolame{u} > > 1 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 18 to remove and 426 not upgraded. > > Need to get 7129kB of archives. After unpacking 33.2MB will be freed. > > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > > nvidia-glx: Depends: nvidia-kernel-185.18.31 which is a virtual package. > > The following actions will resolve these dependencies: > > > > Remove the following packages: > > nvidia-glx > > > > Score is -9881 > > > > Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?] > > > > Does this mean that nvidia-glx will be upgraded? It seems to be saying it > > will be removed... > > Right. The nvidia kernel modules are not automatically built (yet). > You have to build it yourself before upgrading nvidia-glx. > > You can simply do: > > m-a a-i -t nvidia > > or if you are not running the new kernel yet: > > m-a a-i -t nvidia -l 2.6.30-1-686 (or whatever your kernel is) I booted into the new kernel and gave the first one a try, but got BUILD FAILED. I've attached the log, I don't know if you can discern what it means. Thanks! -- J -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nvidia-kernel-source.buildlog.2.6.30-1-686.1252009558 Type: application/octet-stream Size: 12634 bytes Desc: not available URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 20:56:02 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:56:02 -0400 Subject: Semi-OT: Thinkpad T400s initial impression Message-ID: <4AA02D62.20704@alteeve.com> Hi all, I think a couple people asked, so here is my initial impression of my new Lenovo Thinkpad T400s. Overall: - IT IS AWESOME! Probably the best built laptop I've ever owned or even worked on. The only thing more solid is the Toughbook, but you trade off a lot of weight and money for that. I find the most useful opinions being those that also share what they don't like, so let me start there. Things I don't like: - The hard drive is a 1.8" drive with a micro SATA connector. At this moment, I can't find a third party vendor of these drives. I am hoping this will change in the relatively near future as SSDs move into the mainstream, but this is a bit of a gamble. I wish now I had splurged for the 250GB drive and foregone the 2GB Drive Boosted instead. - The touchpad is larger than the ones normally found on Thinkpads and it's nearly flush with the palm rest. I've found myself bumping it with my hand now and then and having the cursor jump. However, there is a Fn+F8 option to turn it off (actually, cycle between the nub, the touchpad, both and neither). At the moment though, this doesn't work with (Ubuntu 64-bit) Linux out of the box... Not sure what it will take to sort this out. - The lid closes a little different from old style Thinkpads. It's fine, just takes a bit of getting used to. - The speakers are quiet. I knew this before I bought it, and they weren't kidding. Expect to use external speakers or headphones. Things I've not yet tested under Linux: - Not sure about all Fn+Fx keys... I know that wireless/bluetooth works though. Not sure about the fingerprint reader yet, either. Now then, the things I love! - Typing on this keyboard is simply amazing. It has the best, firmest tactile feedback of any laptop I've ever used. I wouldn't be surprised to find that there are actual bumpers under the keys instead of the usual pieces of plastic. It's just unreal how good it is. - The screen is very, very bright at it's full brightness. I find myself turning it down when indoors! I didn't have any trouble on the Go train this morning and I really doubt even direct sunlight would be a problem. - It runs very, very cool. I'd gotten so used to all laptops running hot enough to make my lap uncomfortable... I didn't think it was still possible to get a cool running laptop! As an example, I dd'ed the HDD yesterday then bzip2'ed it with level 9 compression. While compressing, I started gparted and shrank the Vista partition and installed Ubuntu. So under nearly 100% load on one CPU core, the other core under active load and the (platter) HDD going full out for well over an hour the laptop never got more than a few degrees over ambient. It's hard to overstate how impressed I am with this machine's ability to stay cool. With a 64-bit, dual-core 2.4GHz Centrino2 in it, we're not talking about a slouch of a laptop either. - It has both logical (Fn+F5) and a hard switch for turning bluetooth/wireless on and off. This is a little thing but it makes quickly turning the antennaes off and on a lot easier... no guessing which mode it's in. - It's light. For a full out laptop with even a DVD-RW, it's only 3.9 lbs. By comparison, my "travel" netbook, The ASUS Eee 10" is 3.3 lbs! It's full sized though... no compromising on keyboard or screen size. I'll still take my Eee for travel because of it's physical size, but it certainly makes this one be not far behind. - It's solid. I mean, it feels like I could fend off a mugger with this thing and then go right back to work. The keyboard has almost no flex... I have to press /hard/ to get anything out of it. Picking it up from the corner of the palm rest with the screen open also shows no flex or give. - One thing that has bugged me on the Eee is that the base is about the same size and weight as the monitor. So when I try to open my screen one-handed, the base lifts up. I need two hands to open it. Not on this T400s though. I can easily open the screen with one hand and the base doesn't lift. It's another small thing, but it is nice. So to summarize; This thing feels very polished. They thought of everything and spared nothing. It's an amazing laptop and I wouldn't feel bad recommending it to anyone looking for a work laptop. Madi PS - If there is interest, I'll post a followup when I finish working out the few Linux bugs. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see the Ubuntu 9.10 already fix any remaining issues. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 20:59:47 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:59:47 -0400 Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia In-Reply-To: <20090903163920.4494885d-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com> <20090903194227.GM23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903163920.4494885d@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090903205947.GQ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 04:39:20PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > I booted into the new kernel and gave the first one a try, but got BUILD > FAILED. I've attached the log, I don't know if you can discern what it means. Ehm, perhaps I should have suggested: m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia Also which version of nvidia-kernel-source do you currently have installed? dpkg -l nvidia-kernel-source I wonder if the version is a bit too old for the 2.6.30 kernel. 185.18.x should probably work, although we have been fixing things and not everything is in yet, although at this point at least in debian unstable I would expect 2.6.30 to work. The 173.x version in testing is way out of date and won't work. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 21:16:10 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:16:10 -0400 Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia In-Reply-To: <20090903205947.GQ23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com> <20090903194227.GM23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903163920.4494885d@teksavvy.com> <20090903205947.GQ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090903171610.3ea838b4@teksavvy.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 04:39:20PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > > I booted into the new kernel and gave the first one a try, but got BUILD > > FAILED. I've attached the log, I don't know if you can discern what it > > means. > > Ehm, perhaps I should have suggested: > > m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia > > Also which version of nvidia-kernel-source do you currently have > installed? > > dpkg -l nvidia-kernel-source nvidia-kernel- 173.14.09-5 > I wonder if the version is a bit too old for the 2.6.30 kernel. > 185.18.x should probably work, although we have been fixing things and > not everything is in yet, although at this point at least in debian > unstable I would expect 2.6.30 to work. The 173.x version in testing > is way out of date and won't work. That must be the problem then. Should I wait until the newer nvidia kernel source is available? I am running Testing, but I have unstable sources in my list (apt pinning). Is there some way to rerun the m-a build so that it pulls in a newer source? -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 21:19:03 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:19:03 -0400 Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia In-Reply-To: <20090903171610.3ea838b4-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com> <20090903194227.GM23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903163920.4494885d@teksavvy.com> <20090903205947.GQ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903171610.3ea838b4@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090903211903.GR23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 05:16:10PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > That must be the problem then. Should I wait until the newer nvidia kernel > source is available? I am running Testing, but I have unstable sources in my > list (apt pinning). Is there some way to rerun the m-a build so that it pulls > in a newer source? Just manually tell it to use the newer nvidia from unstable. It works fine on testing. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 21:30:25 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:30:25 -0400 Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia In-Reply-To: <20090903211903.GR23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com> <20090903194227.GM23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903163920.4494885d@teksavvy.com> <20090903205947.GQ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903171610.3ea838b4@teksavvy.com> <20090903211903.GR23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090903173025.2230c08a@teksavvy.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 05:16:10PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > > That must be the problem then. Should I wait until the newer nvidia kernel > > source is available? I am running Testing, but I have unstable sources in my > > list (apt pinning). Is there some way to rerun the m-a build so that it > > pulls in a newer source? > > Just manually tell it to use the newer nvidia from unstable. It works > fine on testing. Okay, I'm looking at the manpage for module assistant, and I cannot see what would do that...don't suppose you want to tell me how to do that? :-) -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 21:39:02 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:39:02 -0400 Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia In-Reply-To: <20090903173025.2230c08a-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com> <20090903194227.GM23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903163920.4494885d@teksavvy.com> <20090903205947.GQ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903171610.3ea838b4@teksavvy.com> <20090903211903.GR23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903173025.2230c08a@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090903213902.GS23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 05:30:25PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > Okay, I'm looking at the manpage for module assistant, and I cannot see what > would do that...don't suppose you want to tell me how to do that? :-) Well you could simply download the .deb's from unstable. If you happen to have actual pinning setup and unstable listed in your sources.list then you should be able to do: apt-get install nvidia-kernel-source/unstable m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx That should probably take care of it. If you don't have it setup for pinning fully, then you could download the packages from packages.debian.org/nvidia-glx/ for i386 or amd64 (whichever you use) and install nvidia-kernel-source*deb with dpkg -i first, then do m-a then install nvidia-glx*deb. Might need nvidia-common updated as well, although I don't remember if that has changed recently or not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 21:45:30 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:45:30 -0400 Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia In-Reply-To: <20090903213902.GS23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com> <20090903194227.GM23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903163920.4494885d@teksavvy.com> <20090903205947.GQ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903171610.3ea838b4@teksavvy.com> <20090903211903.GR23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903173025.2230c08a@teksavvy.com> <20090903213902.GS23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090903174530.79ae0240@teksavvy.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 05:30:25PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > > Okay, I'm looking at the manpage for module assistant, and I cannot see what > > would do that...don't suppose you want to tell me how to do that? :-) > > Well you could simply download the .deb's from unstable. If you happen > to have actual pinning setup and unstable listed in your sources.list > then you should be able to do: > > apt-get install nvidia-kernel-source/unstable > m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia > apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx > > That should probably take care of it. > > If you don't have it setup for pinning fully, then you could download the > packages from packages.debian.org/nvidia-glx/ for i386 or amd64 (whichever > you use) and install nvidia-kernel-source*deb with dpkg -i first, then > do m-a then install nvidia-glx*deb. Might need nvidia-common updated > as well, although I don't remember if that has changed recently or not. Ah, okay, I thought you meant I had to tell m-a to do this somehow. I'll give this a shot, many thanks. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 3 23:12:53 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:12:53 -0400 Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia In-Reply-To: <20090903213902.GS23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com> <20090903194227.GM23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903163920.4494885d@teksavvy.com> <20090903205947.GQ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903171610.3ea838b4@teksavvy.com> <20090903211903.GR23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903173025.2230c08a@teksavvy.com> <20090903213902.GS23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090903191253.76ffbfc2@teksavvy.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 05:30:25PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > > Okay, I'm looking at the manpage for module assistant, and I cannot see what > > would do that...don't suppose you want to tell me how to do that? :-) > > Well you could simply download the .deb's from unstable. If you happen > to have actual pinning setup and unstable listed in your sources.list > then you should be able to do: > > apt-get install nvidia-kernel-source/unstable > m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia > apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx > > That should probably take care of it. > > If you don't have it setup for pinning fully, then you could download the > packages from packages.debian.org/nvidia-glx/ for i386 or amd64 (whichever > you use) and install nvidia-kernel-source*deb with dpkg -i first, then > do m-a then install nvidia-glx*deb. Might need nvidia-common updated > as well, although I don't remember if that has changed recently or not. Worked like a charm, many many thanks. In one of your replies above, you used the word 'yet' after 'kernel modules are not built automatically'. Is that something that's coming? ie. when you install a new kernel, it automatically builds a new nvidia-kernel? -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 4 06:00:00 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 02:00:00 -0400 Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique rather than language In-Reply-To: <20090903195941.GP23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com> <20090903195941.GP23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AA0ACE0.5090805@gmail.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:18:00AM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Why not find an OpenSource project to join and help out in? See if you >> might like WxWidget, join their forum, ask questions, not for you than >> try some other project. I just picked this project out of thin air, >> I've look at WxWidget and it's design is based on Windows MFC >> framework which is a C++ project. >> >> The real skill you will need to develop and one a lot of new >> programmers overlook is learning how to read and understand someone >> else code and more to the point extend functionality. Learn how to >> debug someone else code and deconstruct it so you can see the design >> using such techniques as UML modeling. >> >> I would pick an OO language over a procedural language. You can always >> program a procedural program in an OO language. If you come for a >> procedural language background you will been hard pressed to >> understand OO concepts let alone debug such programs when things like >> virtual function and polymorphic behaviour come into play. I struggled >> with this one for a while when I got started. > > Well I am one of the people that think OO should be thrown away. It is > not a great solution to the majority of problems and simply causes messy > and less efficient code. What do you mean, you don't like Ruby's everything is an object syntax like: 5.times { puts "hello world!".upcase } ;-) I am starting to believe you don't choose the language, the language chooses you ... I guess whatever feels the most natural will be the best tool to work in. > > Now this doesn't mean a language can't support OO and still be a great > language, just that OO is not an amazing solution to everything. It has > a few good uses but the majority of uses are crap. > > Java is of course crap because it makes everything use OO even where it > has no benefit at all and only causes lots of pain and harm. > >> Programming in a art ;) there are many ways to do the right and wrong >> thing. You will get this from experience overtime as you get exposed >> to other people's codes and concepts. >> >> If you use the KISS principle, don't over design and your code is >> functionally sound and well unit tested then you're in very good shape >> IMHO. > > Pick a language suited to the task. If you are going to do lots of > fidly text processing, C is going to hurt. I am sure there are very good C/C++ libraries that provide text extraction and perl like regex function and can do it much faster. I never used these, but these look like they would fit the job. 1) The boost.regex lib http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_39_0/libs/regex/doc/html/index.html 2) PCRE - Perl Compatible Regular Expressions http://www.pcre.org/ Finding the right library can make a few things less painful. Lots of languages do much > better at handling text. If you are making a web page, php is really nice > and simple, but be careful not to do stupid things that make it insecure. > Python is lovely for quickly making rather complex little tasks, and > because it has lots of external libraries (usually written in C to be > fast and efficient) it can actually make rather fast applications. > Perl is nice for quick little text processing hacks, but almost always > ends up unmaintainable for anything larger. OCAML is nice if you want > fast executables and a nice clean language with excellent type handling > (which really can help avoid stupid bugs and errors). > -- Kind Regards, Rajider Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 4 06:02:40 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 02:02:40 -0400 Subject: looking for a new host In-Reply-To: <4A9D9E20.4030701-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A9D9E20.4030701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AA0AD80.2010805@gmail.com> I would like to thank everyone that got back to me with the possibility of a new hosting service. I have not made an decision other than to cancel my service with my current host. I wrote them a nice love letter when they replied to me privately after deleting the 2nd post off facebook. I was really sincere in my reply and provided them good advice, I didn't make it about me and personalize my poor experience. Most likely my site will go offline sept 19th until I determine a new host that will fit my needs and my budget. -- Kind Regards, Rajider Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 4 13:33:16 2009 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:33:16 -0400 Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique rather than language In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3cb765320909040633j7db505fbic4e21895a45a207e@mail.gmail.com> i would suggest looking at existing "design patterns" (Scott Elcomb also mentioned this): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_pattern_(computer_science) if i talked to myself 5-10 years ago: - i would have found them a bit confusing.. - didn't really want to code against a template... - couldn't quite see how to apply them to work-related tasks... (and didn't have someone more experience to guide me in their proper use...) - etc. attempting to make a comparison to something like woodworking: - when i graduated with a CS degree i had "tools in my toolbox" and little else... (except for enthusiasm!) - if someone with a hammer/saw/nails and some wood decides to make a quality piece of furniture: - they probably want to make a a few from plans before striking out on their own design - when it comes to details like fashioning a quality joint in the wood: - they're probably better off following an established practice / design pattern (like a dovetail joint) than trying to invent they're own... anyways... (just my two cents worth!) Scott On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hello All, > > I am currently looking to expand my programming knowledge from more > than College. College has taught me the basics of programming, Object > Oriented concepts however not how to properly use them. I have learned > alot of my concepts from looking at other people's programs. > > I am looking to take a course which gives me information on how to > properly structure code and use Object Oriented programming in day to > day use. > > Can anyone make a suggestion on where to find a course with more > advance concepts of programming? Language is not really specific > however I'd prefer java/c/php. > > Basically so I'm programming the correct way, instead of just putting > code together to do a specific task. > > Dave Germiquet > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- Scott C. Ripley (scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org) mobile: 416.738.6357 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 4 13:52:20 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:52:20 -0400 Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia In-Reply-To: <20090903191253.76ffbfc2-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com> <20090903194227.GM23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903163920.4494885d@teksavvy.com> <20090903205947.GQ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903171610.3ea838b4@teksavvy.com> <20090903211903.GR23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903173025.2230c08a@teksavvy.com> <20090903213902.GS23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090903191253.76ffbfc2@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090904135220.GT23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 07:12:53PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > Worked like a charm, many many thanks. In one of your replies above, you used > the word 'yet' after 'kernel modules are not built automatically'. Is that > something that's coming? ie. when you install a new kernel, it automatically > builds a new nvidia-kernel? Yes, I pretty much did the necesary work to make the nvidia driver packages compatible with the kernel module builder package, but we never got that package updated to actually start doing it. The TODO list is still pretty long and there are a few things that still need fixing. It will not be an automatic build on your system, it will be an automatic build by the debian build servers whenever a new kernel is released by debian. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 4 13:55:44 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:55:44 -0400 Subject: OT: RubyWorld conference broadcast Message-ID: This might interest a few people, just getting into Ruby myself would like to know some of the things mentioned on the site page(copied below). If anyone has got the means to save a copy of the live streaming video I would be grateful if they could get it to me? I will be out of town this long weekend so will miss the broadcast, not sure if they plan to post it on YouTube. The RubyWorld Conference: September 7th ? 8th , 2009. Live broadcast at the official web site. http://www.rubyworld-conf.org/en/ Objective The programming language ?Ruby? is rapidly expanding its application in the field of business. On the other hand, some possible concerns have also been expressed as to whether the performance of the language is reliable enough in applying it to business, whether the specification of the language is stable enough, or whether the language has enough accumulation of performance records in business fields, and so on. In order to brush away such concerns, ?RubyWorld Conference?, an international conference on Ruby, has been organized at Matsue City in Shimane Prefecture, the places closely linked with Ruby. The aim of this International Conference is to promote the use of Ruby in wider areas, through presentations and discussions in various sessions on the most advanced technologies concerning Ruby, the movement toward the standardization of the language specification, and advanced application examples. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav May the { source } be with you ! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 4 13:55:52 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:55:52 -0400 Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique rather than language In-Reply-To: <4AA0ACE0.5090805-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com> <20090903195941.GP23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA0ACE0.5090805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090904135552.GU23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 02:00:00AM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > What do you mean, you don't like Ruby's everything is an object syntax like: > > 5.times { puts "hello world!".upcase } > > ;-) OK, I had never looked at ruby before. Now I actually have a reason to never bother. That is just ugly. You have to look all over the place to find out what that line is actually doing. > I am starting to believe you don't choose the language, the language > chooses you ... I guess whatever feels the most natural will be the best > tool to work in. Well maybe. Just because a language feels natural doens't mean it is a good choice for a problem, but it probably has a pretty good chance of being a good choice in that case. > I am sure there are very good C/C++ libraries that provide text > extraction and perl like regex function and can do it much faster. I > never used these, but these look like they would fit the job. > > 1) The boost.regex lib > http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_39_0/libs/regex/doc/html/index.html > > 2) PCRE - Perl Compatible Regular Expressions > http://www.pcre.org/ > > Finding the right library can make a few things less painful. libpcre is lovely, but C still sucks at strings. C strings are awful. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 4 14:10:48 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 10:10:48 -0400 Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique rather than language In-Reply-To: <20090904135552.GU23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com> <20090903195941.GP23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA0ACE0.5090805@gmail.com> <20090904135552.GU23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 02:00:00AM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> What do you mean, you don't like Ruby's everything is an object syntax like: >> >> ? ? ? 5.times { puts "hello world!".upcase } >> >> ;-) > > OK, I had never looked at ruby before. ?Now I actually have a reason to > never bother. ?That is just ugly. Like mom said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. > You have to look all over the place > to find out what that line is actually doing. Ha! I expected such a reply =) ... I find it reads left to right, there is no looking around everywhere. execute code block 5 times -> print some text -> in upper case. >> I am starting to believe you don't choose the language, the language >> chooses you ... I guess whatever feels the most natural will be the best >> tool to work in. > > Well maybe. ?Just because a language feels natural doens't mean it is a > good choice for a problem, but it probably has a pretty good chance of > being a good choice in that case. > >> I am sure there are very good C/C++ libraries that provide text >> extraction and perl like regex function and can do it much faster. I >> never used these, but these look like they would fit the job. >> >> 1) The boost.regex lib >> http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_39_0/libs/regex/doc/html/index.html >> >> 2) PCRE - Perl Compatible Regular Expressions >> http://www.pcre.org/ >> >> Finding the right library can make a few things less painful. > > libpcre is lovely, but C still sucks at strings. ?C strings are awful. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav May the { source } be with you ! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 4 15:36:01 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:36:01 -0400 Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique rather than language In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com> <20090903195941.GP23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA0ACE0.5090805@gmail.com> <20090904135552.GU23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090904153601.GV23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 10:10:48AM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Lennart > Sorensen wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 02:00:00AM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > >> What do you mean, you don't like Ruby's everything is an object syntax like: > >> > >> ? ? ? 5.times { puts "hello world!".upcase } > >> > >> ;-) > > > > OK, I had never looked at ruby before. ?Now I actually have a reason to > > never bother. ?That is just ugly. > > Like mom said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. > > > You have to look all over the place > > to find out what that line is actually doing. > > Ha! I expected such a reply =) ... I find it reads left to right, > there is no looking around everywhere. > execute code block 5 times -> print some text -> in upper case. Well no, it is execute code block 5 times, take some text, upper case it, then print the result. The .upcase part simply messes up the flow. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 4 16:09:07 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:09:07 -0400 Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique rather than language In-Reply-To: <20090904153601.GV23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com> <20090903195941.GP23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA0ACE0.5090805@gmail.com> <20090904135552.GU23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090904153601.GV23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 10:10:48AM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Lennart >> Sorensen wrote: >> > On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 02:00:00AM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> >> What do you mean, you don't like Ruby's everything is an object syntax like: >> >> >> >> ? ? ? 5.times { puts "hello world!".upcase } >> >> >> >> ;-) >> > >> > OK, I had never looked at ruby before. ?Now I actually have a reason to >> > never bother. ?That is just ugly. >> >> Like mom said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. >> >> > You have to look all over the place >> > to find out what that line is actually doing. >> >> Ha! I expected such a reply =) ... I find it reads left to right, >> there is no looking around everywhere. >> execute code block 5 times -> print some text -> in upper case. > > Well no, it is execute code block 5 times, take some text, upper case it, > then print the result. ?The .upcase part simply messes up the flow. That is how I read it the first time when I was learning Ruby trying to map my C++ skills... then after a little while, you transform into a Ruby coder and start to read it like a sentence from left to right, in fact you don't event notice how ugly the syntax is ;-) > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav May the { source } be with you ! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 4 16:14:17 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:14:17 -0400 Subject: pulseaudio crashe problem Message-ID: <4AA13CD9.9000806@linuxcaffe.ca> I know from der Goole, that I'm not the only one, but what can I do about; pulseaudio: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/pulse-0.9/modules/module-rtp-recv.so: undefined symbol: pa_sink_get_latency_within_thread ?? it's makin me crazy, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 4 16:23:56 2009 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:23:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: November talk Message-ID: If there's nothing yet set for November, I'd like to make a presentation on, believe it or not, the shell, specifically Bash. I have two aspects discuss. The first is the new features of Bash 4.0, the other is my new book, Pro Bash Programming, which will be out next month. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 5 11:01:13 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 07:01:13 -0400 Subject: OT: Privacy commissioner slaps Bell over traffic management Message-ID: This may be of interest to some :-) Privacy commissioner slaps Bell over traffic management http://www.itworldcanada.com/Pages/Docbase/ViewArticle.aspx?id=idgml-f8c8388d-1425-4e20&Portal=448d158c-d857-4785-b759-ffa1c005933c&sub=501490 Findings under the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA) PIPEDA Case Summary #2009-010 Report of Findings Assistant Commissioner recommends Bell Canada inform customers about Deep Packet Inspection http://www.priv.gc.ca/cf-dc/2009/2009_010_rep_0813_e.cfm#findings -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 5 19:15:08 2009 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 15:15:08 -0400 Subject: usb problem Message-ID: Hey Everyone, I've run into a situation with kubuntu 9.04. The other night, the hydro flickered on and off. When the computer rebooted, the usb mouse was not recognized. I've tried the mouse on another computer and it works fine. When I use dmesg after inserting the usb mouse, nothing is registered. I've put a ps2 adapter on it and it is working fine. There are no error messages that I can see when linux boots. Is my fear of a hardware unwarranted? Thanks for your help, Randy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 5 21:33:49 2009 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 17:33:49 -0400 Subject: usb problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1252186429.1176.1333392219@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 15:15 -0400, "Randy Jonasz" wrote: I've run into a situation with kubuntu 9.04. The other night, the hydro flickered on and off. When the computer rebooted, the usb mouse was not recognized. I've tried the mouse on another computer and it works fine. When I use dmesg after inserting the usb mouse, nothing is registered. I've put a ps2 adapter on it and it is working fine. There are no error messages that I can see when linux boots. Is my fear of a hardware unwarranted? It's hard to tell without being there, but that doesn't sound too good. In the hope that just your BIOS settings got messed up rather than the actual USB circuitry, here's something I'd try. Look in your BIOS, and see if there's an option such as "Enable/Disable USB" (there really, really should be one). Disable USB, save the new "disabled" setting to CMOS, then re-enable USB and re-save the "enabled" setting to CMOS again. This might reset things. If that doesn't work (or if you'd prefer starting from an entirely clean slate), look for an option such as "Load Default BIOS Settings", do that, and save the new settings to CMOS and see if things come back to normal again when you reboot. This may be hoping against hope, but it's worth a try. If the USB circuitry on your computer really is gone, you might be able to avoid replacing your motherboard by simply getting a PCI card that provides new USB ports. If the USB ports on your computer were all on the back anyway, you wouldn't really be losing anything in convenience. Though I haven't checked, I can't imagine such a card would cost very much these days. I'd also recommend a new surge suppressor if you don't have one already, since most types of surge suppressors lose effectiveness over time with each surge and spike they experience. I'd go for one of the Series Mode (SM) types, since they work differently and aren't subject to this problem. They may be expensive, but so are new motherboards and aggravation. Good luck! Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 5 21:45:30 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 14:45:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: usb problem In-Reply-To: <1252186429.1176.1333392219-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1252186429.1176.1333392219@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <569250.50428.qm@web59504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> My second thought was to check your xserver or xorg.conf setting. I had to change mine using terminal for a video issue. Regards Abby ________________________________ From: Amanda Yilmaz To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 5:33:49 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: usb problem On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 15:15 -0400, "Randy Jonasz" wrote: I've run into a situation with kubuntu 9.04. The other night, the hydro flickered on and off. When the computer rebooted, the usb mouse was not recognized. I've tried the mouse on another computer and it works fine. When I use dmesg after inserting the usb mouse, nothing is registered. I've put a ps2 adapter on it and it is working fine. There are no error messages that I can see when linux boots. Is my fear of a hardware unwarranted? It's hard to tell without being there, but that doesn't sound too good. In the hope that just your BIOS settings got messed up rather than the actual USB circuitry, here's something I'd try. Look in your BIOS, and see if there's an option such as "Enable/Disable USB" (there really, really should be one). Disable USB, save the new "disabled" setting to CMOS, then re-enable USB and re-save the "enabled" setting to CMOS again. This might reset things. If that doesn't work (or if you'd prefer starting from an entirely clean slate), look for an option such as "Load Default BIOS Settings", do that, and save the new settings to CMOS and see if things come back to normal again when you reboot. This may be hoping against hope, but it's worth a try. If the USB circuitry on your computer really is gone, you might be able to avoid replacing your motherboard by simply getting a PCI card that provides new USB ports. If the USB ports on your computer were all on the back anyway, you wouldn't really be losing anything in convenience. Though I haven't checked, I can't imagine such a card would cost very much these days. I'd also recommend a new surge suppressor if you don't have one already, since most types of surge suppressors lose effectiveness over time with each surge and spike they experience. I'd go for one of the Series Mode (SM) types, since they work differently and aren't subject to this problem. They may be expensive, but so are new motherboards and aggravation. Good luck! Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 6 05:17:00 2009 From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 01:17:00 -0400 Subject: cpu temperature Message-ID: <4AA345CC.6020803@qef.com> My thinkpad, which is running RedHat, had been shutting down due to overheating. As such I'd like to monitor the temperature to determine what might be causing the overheating. Does anyone know of a way to determine the current CPU temperature? -- dt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 6 05:51:52 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 01:51:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cpu temperature In-Reply-To: <4AA345CC.6020803-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA345CC.6020803@qef.com> Message-ID: | From: David Tilbrook | My thinkpad, which is running RedHat, had been shutting down | due to overheating. Which thinkpad model? Which Red Hat? I bet it is old. Advice you get might be for newer systems. (If your machine is old enough, current distros might not fit. How much RAM does it have?) Consider cleaning out the dust. People say that matters and is often the cause of heat problems. | As such I'd like to monitor the temperature to determine what | might be causing the overheating. | | Does anyone know of a way to determine the current CPU temperature? lmsensors is the package to monitor any sensors that your system might have. Sensors may not help you figure out why overheating is happening. Does it overheat in Windows? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 6 06:19:22 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 10:19:22 +0400 Subject: usb problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AA3546A.1000503@gmail.com> Randy Jonasz wrote: > Hey Everyone, > > I've run into a situation with kubuntu 9.04. The other night, the > hydro flickered on and off. When the computer rebooted, the usb mouse > was not recognized. I've tried the mouse on another computer and it > works fine. When I use dmesg after inserting the usb mouse, nothing > is registered. I've put a ps2 adapter on it and it is working fine. > There are no error messages that I can see when linux boots. Is my > fear of a hardware unwarranted? > My memory key got broken after it fall on the floor. When I insert it into usb slot, an error message shows up in /var/log/messages. Perhaps you should have a look into that file. Another think is that these error messages are somewhat cryptic and misguiding. I my case, it took me a lot of time to figure out that the device is broken. Googling is not much helpful. I was not able to find a good information about USB related error codes. zb. > Thanks for your help, > > Randy > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 6 15:04:09 2009 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:04:09 -0400 Subject: usb problem In-Reply-To: <4AA3546A.1000503-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA3546A.1000503@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the help, everyone. I turned usb off and on in the bios and checked but to no avail. I checked my message logs and no entry is made while plugging the mouse in and taking it out. Alas I think I have a hardware failure. I'll definitely invest in a better surge protector this time. Thanks again, Randy On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:19 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Randy Jonasz wrote: > >> Hey Everyone, >> >> I've run into a situation with kubuntu 9.04. The other night, the hydro >> flickered on and off. When the computer rebooted, the usb mouse was not >> recognized. I've tried the mouse on another computer and it works fine. >> When I use dmesg after inserting the usb mouse, nothing is registered. >> I've put a ps2 adapter on it and it is working fine. There are no error >> messages that I can see when linux boots. Is my fear of a hardware >> unwarranted? >> >> My memory key got broken after it fall on the floor. When I insert it > into usb slot, an error message shows up in /var/log/messages. Perhaps you > should have a look into that file. Another think is that these error > messages are somewhat cryptic and misguiding. I my case, it took me a lot of > time to figure out that the device is broken. Googling is not much helpful. > I was not able to find a good information about USB related error codes. > > zb. > > Thanks for your help, >> >> Randy >> >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 6 18:18:26 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 14:18:26 -0400 Subject: OT: LCD mounting arm Message-ID: <1f13df280909061118i3296ce95ob3bad1fe38c6584a@mail.gmail.com> I'm thinking of purchasing mounting arms for the two LCD displays on my desktop. Since I live in an apartment I don't want to go putting holes in the walls and would thus prefer a desk-mount system to wall-mount. I would prefer the desk-mount anyway, so wall-mount is right out. I'm not feeling rich so I would prefer cheap ... but I'm willing to pay a bit more for solidity. One monitor is 19" 4:3, the other is 22" widescreen. I've been looking at the Ergotron LX Dual (http://www.pricecanada.com/p.php/Ergotron-Inc-LX-Dual-Desk-Mount-Arm-28512195-445882/) for around $250. Comments for or against or any other suggestions most welcome. Is there a retail store in the city where I can actually go see some of these installed and usable? Thanks. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 7 02:22:32 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 22:22:32 -0400 Subject: cpu temperature In-Reply-To: <4AA345CC.6020803-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA345CC.6020803@qef.com> Message-ID: <4AA46E68.5090700@alteeve.com> David Tilbrook wrote: > My thinkpad, which is running RedHat, had been shutting down > due to overheating. > > As such I'd like to monitor the temperature to determine what > might be causing the overheating. > > Does anyone know of a way to determine the current CPU temperature? > > -- dt Adding to and expanding on Hugh's advice; Dust can block the exhaust fan or the CPU fan could have failed. Every Thinkpad has a service and parts manual available on the download page that has detailed tear-down instructions. This will help you tremendously when it comes to clearing the fan and/or replacing it. If you have support in the hardware, install 'acpi' and then run 'acpi -t'. That will show you the temperature on the CPU (and other thermal sensors). From there, it should be a pretty easy task to hack up a script to parse it's output periodically and record the temperature to a file/DB. Let us know exactly what make/model you have for more help. hth! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 7 04:15:43 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 00:15:43 -0400 Subject: vector graphic Message-ID: <4AA488EF.8070402@gmail.com> Hello all, I have a large bitmap image that I would like to trace around and create a vectorized image from it. Is there a program that will allow me to do this? I need to be able to save in one of these formats: .pdf, .ai, .cdr, .eps -- Kind Regards, Rajider Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 7 05:28:51 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 01:28:51 -0400 Subject: vector graphic In-Reply-To: <4AA488EF.8070402-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA488EF.8070402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090907012851.795a5d44.hgibson@eol.ca> On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 00:15:43 -0400 Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Hello all, > > I have a large bitmap image that I would like to trace around and create a > vectorized image from it. > > Is there a program that will allow me to do this? > I need to be able to save in one of these formats: .pdf, .ai, .cdr, .eps > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajider Yadav Rejider, I have done that with Xfig. Xfig imports bitmap graphics, and it is a vector graphics program capable of saving in PDF and EPS format. Read the man page. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 7 06:20:00 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 02:20:00 -0400 Subject: vector graphic In-Reply-To: <20090907012851.795a5d44.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA488EF.8070402@gmail.com> <20090907012851.795a5d44.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4AA4A610.8010308@gmail.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 00:15:43 -0400 > Rajinder Yadav wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I have a large bitmap image that I would like to trace around and create a >> vectorized image from it. >> >> Is there a program that will allow me to do this? >> I need to be able to save in one of these formats: .pdf, .ai, .cdr, .eps >> >> -- >> Kind Regards, >> Rajider Yadav > > Rejider, > > I have done that with Xfig. Xfig imports bitmap graphics, and it is a vector graphics program capable of saving in PDF and EPS format. > > Read the man page. > Thanks Howard, I just installed xfig and will play around with it. I just realized I butcher my own signature file and misspelled my own name =) -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 7 12:59:43 2009 From: echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 08:59:43 -0400 Subject: vector graphic In-Reply-To: <4AA4A610.8010308-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA488EF.8070402@gmail.com> <20090907012851.795a5d44.hgibson@eol.ca> <4AA4A610.8010308@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AA503BF.1080706@teksavvy.com> Xfig - I'll take a look too. I've installed Inkscape. On 09/07/2009 02:20 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Howard Gibson wrote: >> On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 00:15:43 -0400 >> Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I have a large bitmap image that I would like to trace around and >>> create a vectorized image from it. >>> >>> Is there a program that will allow me to do this? >>> I need to be able to save in one of these formats: .pdf, .ai, .cdr, .eps >>> >>> -- >>> Kind Regards, >>> Rajider Yadav >> >> Rejider, >> >> I have done that with Xfig. Xfig imports bitmap graphics, and it is a >> vector graphics program capable of saving in PDF and EPS format. >> >> Read the man page. > > Thanks Howard, I just installed xfig and will play around with it. > > I just realized I butcher my own signature file and misspelled my own > name =) > -- http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 7 16:43:24 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 12:43:24 -0400 Subject: OT: Free* Vista upgrade to Windows 7 isn't really free Message-ID: <4AA5382C.6080608@alteeve.com> So I figured, well, I've got this stupid Vista to Windows 7 upgrade, may as well see what's involved in upgrading. I mean, it's "free", right? Nope... Try $31usd for "handling and shipping". What a crock. This crap is what makes me love Linux/FOSS, wrinkles and all. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 7 16:52:01 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 09:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: Free* Vista upgrade to Windows 7 isn't really free In-Reply-To: <4AA5382C.6080608-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA5382C.6080608@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <821445.24683.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I down loaded Windows 7 RC when it was free and tried it out on one of my computers. Its better than Vista but I still like XP better. They all have stability issues. Abby ________________________________ From: Madison Kelly To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 12:43:24 PM Subject: [TLUG]: OT: Free* Vista upgrade to Windows 7 isn't really free So I figured, well, I've got this stupid Vista to Windows 7 upgrade, may as well see what's involved in upgrading. I mean, it's "free", right? Nope... Try $31usd for "handling and shipping". What a crock. This crap is what makes me love Linux/FOSS, wrinkles and all. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 7 23:29:22 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 19:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Free* Vista upgrade to Windows 7 isn't really free In-Reply-To: <4AA5382C.6080608-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA5382C.6080608@alteeve.com> Message-ID: | From: Madison Kelly | Nope... Try $31usd for "handling and shipping". | | What a crock. This crap is what makes me love Linux/FOSS, wrinkles and all. You are confusing two kinds of free. Free as in beer, free as in speech. Windows 7 is free as in speech. No wait, that isn't it. When I bought my ThinkPad, it came with Business Vista. So I was entitled to downgrade to WinXP for free. I was given to understand that if I'd ordered the notebook with the downgrade, it really would have been free. But ordering it afterwards would have been about $50 (media (actually medium, but we'll let that pass), shipping, and handling). Restore disks for Vista would have been the same too. The only application I run on Vista is "Windows Update". I'd actually be ahead if a blew away Vista. Oh, and that ThinkVantage update thingee (which Lenovo witdrew for a few months, driving customers nuts). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 7 23:35:59 2009 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 19:35:59 -0400 Subject: November talk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I look forward to the book! John On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > If there's nothing yet set for November, I'd like to make a > presentation on, believe it or not, the shell, specifically Bash. > > I have two aspects discuss. The first is the new features of Bash > 4.0, the other is my new book, Pro Bash Programming, which will be > out next month. > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster > =================================================================== > Author: > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 05:00:17 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 01:00:17 -0400 Subject: vector graphic In-Reply-To: <4AA503BF.1080706-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA488EF.8070402@gmail.com> <20090907012851.795a5d44.hgibson@eol.ca> <4AA4A610.8010308@gmail.com> <4AA503BF.1080706@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <4AA5E4E1.1040303@gmail.com> Elliott Chapin wrote: > Xfig - I'll take a look too. I've installed Inkscape. Another one I came across for (auto) vectorizing bitmaps is potrace, it looks like a command-line tool but I think there is a UI front end for selecting the settings if you google it http://potrace.sourceforge.net/ Will also need to look at this later! > > On 09/07/2009 02:20 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Howard Gibson wrote: >>> On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 00:15:43 -0400 >>> Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> I have a large bitmap image that I would like to trace around and >>>> create a vectorized image from it. >>>> >>>> Is there a program that will allow me to do this? >>>> I need to be able to save in one of these formats: .pdf, .ai, .cdr, >>>> .eps >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kind Regards, >>>> Rajider Yadav >>> >>> Rejider, >>> >>> I have done that with Xfig. Xfig imports bitmap graphics, and it is a >>> vector graphics program capable of saving in PDF and EPS format. >>> >>> Read the man page. >> >> Thanks Howard, I just installed xfig and will play around with it. >> >> I just realized I butcher my own signature file and misspelled my own >> name =) >> > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 05:59:35 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 01:59:35 -0400 Subject: vector graphic In-Reply-To: <4AA5E4E1.1040303-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA488EF.8070402@gmail.com> <20090907012851.795a5d44.hgibson@eol.ca> <4AA4A610.8010308@gmail.com> <4AA503BF.1080706@teksavvy.com> <4AA5E4E1.1040303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AA5F2C7.8060208@gmail.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Elliott Chapin wrote: >> Xfig - I'll take a look too. I've installed Inkscape. > > Another one I came across for (auto) vectorizing bitmaps is potrace, it > looks like a command-line tool but I think there is a UI front end for > selecting the settings if you google it > > http://potrace.sourceforge.net/ > > Will also need to look at this later! Looking at Inkscape, I found out that potrace in already embedded so I think this will be the right tool to use for vectorizing my bitmap =) > > >> >> On 09/07/2009 02:20 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>> Howard Gibson wrote: >>>> On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 00:15:43 -0400 >>>> Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> >>>>> I have a large bitmap image that I would like to trace around and >>>>> create a vectorized image from it. >>>>> >>>>> Is there a program that will allow me to do this? >>>>> I need to be able to save in one of these formats: .pdf, .ai, .cdr, >>>>> .eps >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>> Rajider Yadav >>>> >>>> Rejider, >>>> >>>> I have done that with Xfig. Xfig imports bitmap graphics, and it is a >>>> vector graphics program capable of saving in PDF and EPS format. >>>> >>>> Read the man page. >>> >>> Thanks Howard, I just installed xfig and will play around with it. >>> >>> I just realized I butcher my own signature file and misspelled my own >>> name =) >>> >> > > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav May the { source } be with you. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 14:15:53 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:15:53 -0400 Subject: Anyone here using wordpress.com In-Reply-To: <4A9C5B9D.1010105-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A9BFB00.5060805@telly.org> <4A9C4E75.1070006@rogers.com> <4A9C5B9D.1010105@telly.org> Message-ID: Take a look at Jekyll_. It is a static blog generate written in Ruby. And if you need comments take a look at Disqus_. .. _Jekyll: http://wiki.github.com/mojombo/jekyll .. _Disqus: http://disqus.com/ On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 7:24 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Stephen wrote: >>> I was told by a friend that I could have my domain point to wordpress >>> and look like my own site. At a web level this works fine, but what >>> about mail destined for user at domain? What happens then? Is there a >>> rerouting interface (which is all I need)? >>> >> Have you considered just installing wordpress on your site? > > > Heh. That's what I ended up doing at the end of the day (literally). > > Instead of wordpress here, DNS hosting there, email forwarding somewhere > else, I just stayed with my $60/year hosting site that can do all of > that. There is something occasionally to be said in favour of inertia. :-) > > > - Evan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 14:25:55 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:25:55 -0400 Subject: cpu temperature In-Reply-To: <4AA46E68.5090700-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA345CC.6020803@qef.com> <4AA46E68.5090700@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090908142555.GW23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 06, 2009 at 10:22:32PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Adding to and expanding on Hugh's advice; > > Dust can block the exhaust fan or the CPU fan could have failed. Every > Thinkpad has a service and parts manual available on the download page > that has detailed tear-down instructions. This will help you > tremendously when it comes to clearing the fan and/or replacing it. > > If you have support in the hardware, install 'acpi' and then run 'acpi > -t'. That will show you the temperature on the CPU (and other thermal > sensors). From there, it should be a pretty easy task to hack up a > script to parse it's output periodically and record the temperature to a > file/DB. > > Let us know exactly what make/model you have for more help. Yeah I try to clean the dust from the heatsink/heatpipe every 3 months or so. It tends to make the machine run way quieter, and makes the fan happier, and the system cooler. One time I did my wife's laptop and it dropped the temperature of the CPU by 15C and the fan stopped running at full blast. I find that a Q-tip works well after removing the cpu fan. Making the tip damp makes it collect the dust better (but not soaking wet). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 15:01:27 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 08:01:27 -0700 Subject: pulseaudio crashe problem In-Reply-To: <4AA13CD9.9000806-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA13CD9.9000806@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0909080801y10a3d2d3ncd4d46493d829a61@mail.gmail.com> Looks like some files may mismatch Perhaps one of the modules it depends on no longer has the "pa_sink_get_latency_within_thread" function (or it used to be a kernel function that no longer exists). I see around August 14th or so that they may have switched to using this call: Commit by lennart :: r3f9c67a pulseaudio/src/pulsecore/sink.c: core: call pa_sink_get_latency_within_thread() instead of going directly via process_msg() Perhaps a full upgrade might get you whatever module provides this function? - TJA On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 9:14 AM, David J Patrick wrote: > I know from der Goole, that I'm not the only one, but what can I do about; > pulseaudio: symbol lookup error: > /usr/lib/pulse-0.9/modules/module-rtp-recv.so: undefined symbol: > pa_sink_get_latency_within_thread > ?? > > it's makin me crazy, > djp > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 15:17:58 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 08:17:58 -0700 Subject: OT: Privacy commissioner slaps Bell over traffic management In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a97ef0909080817u25eca284h5285cfab16f076a2@mail.gmail.com> Am I missing something? This "slap" still seems fairly toothless/useless to me. Basically the CRTC statement seems to be: "What you're doing is a violation of customers' privacy" with the solution being "add a few lines of cover-my-butt legal muttering on various webpages and printouts telling customers what you're doing, update your links, and all will be fine" Is there a point to that? It's not like customers have a real CHOICE in using Bell connections, especially those already using 3rd-party ISP's that run off Bell lines. Give customers the option to opt-out of DPI and then we're talking! Basically they're not in any way punishing Bell for violating customers' privacy, but rather gently admonishing them for doing so without telling them (in some obscure and lengthy document that nobody will read nor be able to contest anyhow). On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 4:01 AM, meng wrote: > This may be of interest to some :-) > > Privacy commissioner slaps Bell over traffic management > http://www.itworldcanada.com/Pages/Docbase/ViewArticle.aspx?id=idgml-f8c8388d-1425-4e20&Portal=448d158c-d857-4785-b759-ffa1c005933c&sub=501490 > > Findings under the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA) > PIPEDA Case Summary #2009-010 > Report of Findings > Assistant Commissioner recommends Bell Canada inform customers about Deep Packet Inspection > http://www.priv.gc.ca/cf-dc/2009/2009_010_rep_0813_e.cfm#findings > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 15:24:39 2009 From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (tug) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:24:39 -0400 Subject: cpu temperature In-Reply-To: <20090908142555.GW23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA345CC.6020803@qef.com> <4AA46E68.5090700@alteeve.com> <20090908142555.GW23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AA67737.7010903@gmail.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Sep 06, 2009 at 10:22:32PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Adding to and expanding on Hugh's advice; >> >> Dust can block the exhaust fan or the CPU fan could have failed. Every >> Thinkpad has a service and parts manual available on the download page >> that has detailed tear-down instructions. This will help you >> tremendously when it comes to clearing the fan and/or replacing it. >> >> If you have support in the hardware, install 'acpi' and then run 'acpi >> -t'. That will show you the temperature on the CPU (and other thermal >> sensors). From there, it should be a pretty easy task to hack up a >> script to parse it's output periodically and record the temperature to a >> file/DB. >> >> Let us know exactly what make/model you have for more help. >> > > Yeah I try to clean the dust from the heatsink/heatpipe every 3 months > or so. It tends to make the machine run way quieter, and makes the fan > happier, and the system cooler. One time I did my wife's laptop and it > dropped the temperature of the CPU by 15C and the fan stopped running > at full blast. > > I find that a Q-tip works well after removing the cpu fan. Making the > tip damp makes it collect the dust better (but not soaking wet). > > My "prone to overheat" Inspiron 5150 (my WinXP machine) - which has the input for the ventilation fan underneath the base, I do the following. a) prop the back up with a piece of wood to open up the air-vent to air, as opposed to trying to stick it to the table. b) regularly vacuum (whenever I vacuum my apartment) trying to suck out what has been sucked in. It's much easier than opening up the machine, and just becomes a part of the weekly chores -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 15:29:52 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:29:52 -0400 Subject: OT: Privacy commissioner slaps Bell over traffic management In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0909080817u25eca284h5285cfab16f076a2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0909080817u25eca284h5285cfab16f076a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AA67870.9050109@alteeve.com> That was my take, too. I was all worked up at this thread's subject, read it hoping that something was going to change and left disappointed. Doubly so when I read that the findings, as toothless as they are, only spoke to Bell's own Sympatico clients and specifically gave the green light to screwing over us resellers. Madi Tyler Aviss wrote: > Am I missing something? This "slap" still seems fairly > toothless/useless to me. Basically the CRTC statement seems to be: > > "What you're doing is a violation of customers' privacy" > with the solution being > "add a few lines of cover-my-butt legal muttering on various > webpages and printouts telling customers what you're doing, update > your links, and all will be fine" > > Is there a point to that? It's not like customers have a real CHOICE > in using Bell connections, especially those already using 3rd-party > ISP's that run off Bell lines. Give customers the option to opt-out of > DPI and then we're talking! > > Basically they're not in any way punishing Bell for violating > customers' privacy, but rather gently admonishing them for doing so > without telling them (in some obscure and lengthy document that nobody > will read nor be able to contest anyhow). > > > > On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 4:01 AM, meng wrote: >> This may be of interest to some :-) >> >> Privacy commissioner slaps Bell over traffic management >> http://www.itworldcanada.com/Pages/Docbase/ViewArticle.aspx?id=idgml-f8c8388d-1425-4e20&Portal=448d158c-d857-4785-b759-ffa1c005933c&sub=501490 >> >> Findings under the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA) >> PIPEDA Case Summary #2009-010 >> Report of Findings >> Assistant Commissioner recommends Bell Canada inform customers about Deep Packet Inspection >> http://www.priv.gc.ca/cf-dc/2009/2009_010_rep_0813_e.cfm#findings >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 15:45:39 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:45:39 -0400 Subject: cpu temperature In-Reply-To: <4AA67737.7010903-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA345CC.6020803@qef.com> <4AA46E68.5090700@alteeve.com> <20090908142555.GW23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA67737.7010903@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090908154539.GX23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 11:24:39AM -0400, tug wrote: > My "prone to overheat" Inspiron 5150 (my WinXP machine) - which has the > input for the ventilation fan underneath the base, I do the following. > a) prop the back up with a piece of wood to open up the air-vent to air, > as opposed to trying to stick it to the table. > b) regularly vacuum (whenever I vacuum my apartment) trying to suck out > what has been sucked in. It's much easier than opening up the machine, > and just becomes a part of the weekly chores I would not use a vacuum near a computer. Vacuums generate a lot of static electricity when the air flows through the hose, which is not something your computer likes. It is also very unlikely that the vacuum will actually get the dust out of the heatsink. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 16:09:43 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 12:09:43 -0400 Subject: Gnome issues on CentOS 5.3 Message-ID: Hi pals, Got an issue this morning with my laptop. For 3 weeks straight, I have been suspending it instead of completely shutting it down. However, this weekend the battery drained completely and it went off. Now, when I switched it on this morning, it looks like gnome profile in the account I was using got corrupted. I can log in as a root or as another sample user I just created. However, when I log in my old accounts, only the console come up and the whole screen is black. I can not enlarge or move the console, which imply X manager is not running. In short, there interaction to the system under X is similar to that under a naked console - I mean CTRL + ALT + F1 I have looked around the logs - message file and Xorg.0.log and do not seem to get any errors that point at what went wrong. Anyone have an idea how I can crack this problem? If its not possible to fix the old gnome profile, is there a way of backing up the bookmarks without initially logging in to that profile? That would be a good plan B Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 16:11:57 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 12:11:57 -0400 Subject: Can anyone recommend a webcam? Message-ID: <20090908161157.GA12558@yam.witteman.ca> I am looking for a cheap, simple webcam with a mic for Skype on Debian Linux. Can anyone recommend something that will work with minimal (or zero) messing around? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 16:18:12 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 12:18:12 -0400 Subject: Can anyone recommend a webcam? In-Reply-To: <20090908161157.GA12558-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090908161157.GA12558@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20090908161812.GY23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 12:11:57PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I am looking for a cheap, simple webcam with a mic for Skype on Debian > Linux. Can anyone recommend something that will work with minimal (or > zero) messing around? Something usb video class compliant. The one unfortunate problem being that 2.6.26 has a bug in the UVC driver that makes it not work and that happens to the be kernel in debian Lenny. Not sure if that has been patched or not. 2.6.27 and up works great. And of course skype should be banned. I consider them far more evil than Microsoft. :) Use ekiga or something else SIP and H.323 standards compliant. Refuse to use the monopoly p2p based network harming mess that is skype. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 16:19:29 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 12:19:29 -0400 Subject: Gnome issues on CentOS 5.3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090908161929.GZ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 12:09:43PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Got an issue this morning with my laptop. For 3 weeks straight, I have > been suspending it instead of completely shutting it down. However, > this weekend the battery drained completely and it went off. > > Now, when I switched it on this morning, it looks like gnome profile > in the account I was using got corrupted. I can log in as a root or > as another sample user I just created. However, when I log in my old > accounts, only the console come up and the whole screen is black. I > can not enlarge or move the console, which imply X manager is not > running. In short, there interaction to the system under X is similar > to that under a naked console - I mean CTRL + ALT + F1 > > I have looked around the logs - message file and Xorg.0.log and do not > seem to get any errors that point at what went wrong. Anyone have an > idea how I can crack this problem? > > If its not possible to fix the old gnome profile, is there a way of > backing up the bookmarks without initially logging in to that profile? > That would be a good plan B .xsession-errors might have info. Do you have a .xsession file? You could rename .confd .gnome etc and see which one has the bad settings in it one at a time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 16:20:54 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 12:20:54 -0400 Subject: Can anyone recommend a webcam? In-Reply-To: <20090908161157.GA12558-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090908161157.GA12558@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4AA68466.40107@telly.org> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I am looking for a cheap, simple webcam with a mic for Skype on Debian > Linux. Can anyone recommend something that will work with minimal (or > zero) messing around? > I've had zero problems with the Dynex webcam sold at both BestBuy and FutureShop, plug n play under Ubuntu for both the camera and mike. http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10098615&catid=20403 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 16:27:29 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 12:27:29 -0400 Subject: Can anyone recommend a webcam? In-Reply-To: <20090908161812.GY23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090908161157.GA12558@yam.witteman.ca> <20090908161812.GY23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090908162729.GA12826@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 12:18:12PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 12:11:57PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> I am looking for a cheap, simple webcam with a mic for Skype on Debian >> Linux. Can anyone recommend something that will work with minimal (or >> zero) messing around? > >Something usb video class compliant. The one unfortunate problem being >that 2.6.26 has a bug in the UVC driver that makes it not work and that >happens to the be kernel in debian Lenny. Not sure if that has been >patched or not. 2.6.27 and up works great. I am running testing, and so the kernel is 2.6.30 - I'm hoping that that is all right. How do I determine if a webcam is UVC compliant? >And of course skype should be banned. I consider them far more evil >than Microsoft. :) Use ekiga or something else SIP and H.323 standards >compliant. Refuse to use the monopoly p2p based network harming mess that >is skype. I agree, but if I want to talk to my wife I have to enter the silo she's in. I will try to migrate her to ekiga in due course, but right now I have a scheduled conversation with her tonight. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 17:31:10 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:31:10 -0400 Subject: Gnome issues on CentOS 5.3 In-Reply-To: <20090908161929.GZ23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090908161929.GZ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Len > > .xsession-errors might have info. > > Do you have a .xsession file? > Thanks, yeah I have this file. There is an interesting line: No profile for user 'william' found Kind of thought the home directory got lost, but its there alright and with proper rights. > You could rename .confd .gnome etc and see which one has the bad settings > in it one at a time. I do not have .confd, but just moved .gnome but that did not fix it. Looking for other files I can rename and see what happens William > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 17:55:25 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:55:25 -0400 Subject: Can anyone recommend a webcam? In-Reply-To: <20090908162729.GA12826-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090908161157.GA12558@yam.witteman.ca> <20090908161812.GY23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090908162729.GA12826@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20090908175525.GA23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 12:27:29PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I am running testing, and so the kernel is 2.6.30 - I'm hoping that > that is all right. How do I determine if a webcam is UVC compliant? It should have a UVC logo on the package. It's a major selling feature since anything windows XP SP1 and higher has drivers built in so no drivers need to be installed. I remembered wrong. XP SP2 added support for UVC. Apparently webcams must be UVC to get a Vista Certified logo according to wikipedia. Even the PS3 supports UVC, so these days any new webcam would be insane if it wasn't UVC based. A short list (far from complete) is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_USB_video_class_devices many more here: http://linux-uvc.berlios.de/#devices > I agree, but if I want to talk to my wife I have to enter the silo she's > in. I will try to migrate her to ekiga in due course, but right now I > have a scheduled conversation with her tonight. There are lots of other options so I simply won't deal with skype. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 17:55:50 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:55:50 -0400 Subject: Gnome issues on CentOS 5.3 In-Reply-To: <20090908161929.GZ23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090908161929.GZ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Len Thanks a lot. I am good now. Look like the bash_profile was cause of the problem. Its now working William > .xsession-errors might have info. > > Do you have a .xsession file? > > You could rename .confd .gnome etc and see which one has the bad settings > in it one at a time. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 17:55:58 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:55:58 -0400 Subject: Gnome issues on CentOS 5.3 In-Reply-To: References: <20090908161929.GZ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090908175558.GB23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 01:31:10PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Thanks, yeah I have this file. > There is an interesting line: > > No profile for user 'william' found > > Kind of thought the home directory got lost, but its there alright and > with proper rights. > > > You could rename .confd .gnome etc and see which one has the bad settings > > in it one at a time. > I do not have .confd, but just moved .gnome but that did not fix it. > Looking for other files I can rename and see what happens I think I meant .gconf -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 19:02:35 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 15:02:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Can anyone recommend a webcam? In-Reply-To: <20090908161812.GY23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090908161157.GA12558@yam.witteman.ca> <20090908161812.GY23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | And of course skype should be banned. I consider them far more evil | than Microsoft. :) Use ekiga or something else SIP and H.323 standards | compliant. Refuse to use the monopoly p2p based network harming mess that | is skype. I agree. I've never used Skype. I have used Ekiga. It isn't perfect but it's OK. Unfortunately, the ITSP world doesn't seem to support encryption. In theory, end-to-end encryption of SIP should be possible (SRTP) but most sip calls are terminated at an ITSP and then go on what appears to be (but generally isn't completely) the PSTN, in the clear. Dedicated SIP ATAs like the Linksys PAP do not support encryption. That is probably true of most dedicated SIP phones and the like. We could use IPsec from our gateway to our ITSP except that I don't know any ITSP that supports IPsec. Michael Richardson offered to help Unlimitel offer this service but it didn't happen. Skype does support encryption, but of course we don't know how good it is and how many parties there are in a conversation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 19:42:23 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:42:23 -0300 Subject: Can anyone recommend a webcam? In-Reply-To: References: <20090908161157.GA12558@yam.witteman.ca> <20090908161812.GY23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1089a0320909081242s28732491t3c3152701289e393@mail.gmail.com> Hi Willian, I don't think you should be worried about this. Almost 100% os the webcams will work on Linux. The new kernel versions are suporting almost 100% of the cams. If you use kernel >=2.6.29, u probably won't have problems to make it work. cheers --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:02 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | And of course skype should be banned. I consider them far more evil > | than Microsoft. :) Use ekiga or something else SIP and H.323 standards > | compliant. Refuse to use the monopoly p2p based network harming mess > that > | is skype. > > I agree. I've never used Skype. > > I have used Ekiga. It isn't perfect but it's OK. > > Unfortunately, the ITSP world doesn't seem to support encryption. In > theory, end-to-end encryption of SIP should be possible (SRTP) but > most sip calls are terminated at an ITSP and then go on what appears > to be (but generally isn't completely) the PSTN, in the clear. > > Dedicated SIP ATAs like the Linksys PAP do not support encryption. > That is probably true of most dedicated SIP phones and the like. > > We could use IPsec from our gateway to our ITSP except that I don't > know any ITSP that supports IPsec. Michael Richardson offered to help > Unlimitel offer this service but it didn't happen. > > Skype does support encryption, but of course we don't know how good it > is and how many parties there are in a conversation. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 19:56:52 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 15:56:52 -0400 Subject: Can anyone recommend a webcam? In-Reply-To: <4AA68466.40107-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090908161157.GA12558@yam.witteman.ca> <4AA68466.40107@telly.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280909081256h7302b04fi18b99b3648baa2ae@mail.gmail.com> 2009/9/8 Evan Leibovitch : > William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> I am looking for a cheap, simple webcam with a mic for Skype on Debian >> Linux. ?Can anyone recommend something that will work with minimal (or >> zero) messing around? >> > I've had zero problems with the Dynex webcam sold at both BestBuy and > FutureShop, plug n play under Ubuntu for both the camera and mike. > > http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10098615&catid=20403 After Evan's previous recommendation of this cam I went and bought one. If you're not using GNOME/KDE you'll have to do some mucking about for recognition/usability (I use Debian without either of the big two). And in fact the video was offset both sideways and downwards, a problem I never could fix (I didn't try too hard - I'm also using kernel 2.6.26 which a comment by Len suggests may be a problem). So yes: the cam delivered an image to my system ... but the image wasn't actually usable. This may be fixable, but if you want immediate plug-and-play, this may not be the item. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 20:05:42 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:05:42 -0400 Subject: Can anyone recommend a webcam? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280909081256h7302b04fi18b99b3648baa2ae-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090908161157.GA12558@yam.witteman.ca> <4AA68466.40107@telly.org> <1f13df280909081256h7302b04fi18b99b3648baa2ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090908200542.GC23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 03:56:52PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > After Evan's previous recommendation of this cam I went and bought > one. If you're not using GNOME/KDE you'll have to do some mucking > about for recognition/usability (I use Debian without either of the > big two). And in fact the video was offset both sideways and > downwards, a problem I never could fix (I didn't try too hard - I'm > also using kernel 2.6.26 which a comment by Len suggests may be a > problem). So yes: the cam delivered an image to my system ... but the > image wasn't actually usable. This may be fixable, but if you want > immediate plug-and-play, this may not be the item. Just avoid 2.6.26. I had partial success with 2.6.26 with my webcam. Once I went to 2.6.27 all the problems just went away. 2.6.26 is simply broken for UVC standard webcams. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 21:18:02 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 17:18:02 -0400 Subject: Can anyone recommend a webcam? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280909081256h7302b04fi18b99b3648baa2ae-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090908161157.GA12558@yam.witteman.ca> <4AA68466.40107@telly.org> <1f13df280909081256h7302b04fi18b99b3648baa2ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AA6CA0A.6090503@telly.org> Giles Orr wrote: > After Evan's previous recommendation of this cam I went and bought > one. If you're not using GNOME/KDE you'll have to do some mucking > about for recognition/usability (I use Debian without either of the > big two). And in fact the video was offset both sideways and > downwards, a problem I never could fix (I didn't try too hard - I'm > also using kernel 2.6.26 which a comment by Len suggests may be a > problem). So yes: the cam delivered an image to my system ... but the > image wasn't actually usable. This may be fixable, but if you want > immediate plug-and-play, this may not be the item. > Darn. Sorry about that. I've used this model on numerous systems without problems, but they've all been Ubuntu or Kubuntu. The one I'm typing this from is Kubuntu 9.04 running 2.6.28 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 22:27:53 2009 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 22:27:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: USB microphone on Linux Message-ID: Hi, I'm trying to make my USB microphone works in my Debian Testing. In brief, I'm experiencing exactly the same symptom as the following post: Can't record from USB Mic using ALSA http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=74879 I.e., everything looks perfect, just record from USB Mic get dead silence. I've consulted the following URLs, but the problem still remains. Is anyone here lucky enough to get your USB Mic working? BTW, according to http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2005/10/12/logitech-usb- desktop-microphone-under-linux/ Daniel was able to make the AK5370 USB Microphone works under Linux, which is exactly the same USB Mic that I have. Anyone can help? Thanks PS. URLs consulted: http://wiki.audacityteam.org/index.php? title=USB_mic_on_Linux#Making_sure_ALSA_detects_the_mic ttp://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=51468 http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Sound_in_Debian_GNU/ Linux#Setting_default_sound_card http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=30673 http://www.mombu.com/gnu_linux/slackware/t-alsa-usb-pci-devices- problem-2619722.html http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/vectorlinux-36/how-do-you-assign- my-usb-micak5370-as-the-capture-device-433604/ http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/Blog/using-the-m-audio-audiophile- usb-digital-audio-interface-with-linux https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/219927 http://alt-usage-english.org/recording_suggestions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 8 23:54:41 2009 From: rjonasz-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Randy Jonasz) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:54:41 -0400 Subject: usb problem In-Reply-To: References: <4AA3546A.1000503@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Everyone, I thought an update was in order. After cleaning the computer and taking it back to where I bought it to get a new motherboard installed, the technician tested the usb ports and all 6 worked. Feeling sheepishly stupid, I thanked him and returned home. After plugging everything back in, I booted the computer and found kern.log was only being updated when inserting the usb mouse into 2 of the 4 back usb ports. The front 2 did not work. After sitting for a few minutes without knowing what to do, my Dad suggested turning the power bar off and then on again. What the heck, I might as well try it, I thought. After doing so, I booted the computer and presto! All 6 usb ports worked as they should. I'm still not sure why. Cheers, Randy On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Randy Jonasz wrote: > Thanks for the help, everyone. I turned usb off and on in the bios and > checked but to no avail. I checked my message logs and no entry is made > while plugging the mouse in and taking it out. Alas I think I have a > hardware failure. I'll definitely invest in a better surge protector this > time. > > Thanks again, > > Randy > > > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 2:19 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> Randy Jonasz wrote: >> >>> Hey Everyone, >>> >>> I've run into a situation with kubuntu 9.04. The other night, the hydro >>> flickered on and off. When the computer rebooted, the usb mouse was not >>> recognized. I've tried the mouse on another computer and it works fine. >>> When I use dmesg after inserting the usb mouse, nothing is registered. >>> I've put a ps2 adapter on it and it is working fine. There are no error >>> messages that I can see when linux boots. Is my fear of a hardware >>> unwarranted? >>> >>> My memory key got broken after it fall on the floor. When I insert it >> into usb slot, an error message shows up in /var/log/messages. Perhaps you >> should have a look into that file. Another think is that these error >> messages are somewhat cryptic and misguiding. I my case, it took me a lot of >> time to figure out that the device is broken. Googling is not much helpful. >> I was not able to find a good information about USB related error codes. >> >> zb. >> >> Thanks for your help, >>> >>> Randy >>> >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 13:19:12 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:19:12 -0400 Subject: USB microphone on Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090909131912.GD23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 10:27:53PM +0000, Antonio T. Sun wrote: > I'm trying to make my USB microphone works in my Debian Testing. > > In brief, I'm experiencing exactly the same symptom as the following > post: > > Can't record from USB Mic using ALSA > http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=74879 > > I.e., everything looks perfect, just record from USB Mic get dead > silence. > > I've consulted the following URLs, but the problem still remains. Is > anyone here lucky enough to get your USB Mic working? > > BTW, according to > http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2005/10/12/logitech-usb- > desktop-microphone-under-linux/ > Daniel was able to make the AK5370 USB Microphone works under Linux, > which is exactly the same USB Mic that I have. > > Anyone can help? I have a USB headset, and to get recording I remember I had to specify some IECxxx format and pick just the right speed (I think it was 48000hz 16bit). Pick anything else and it did nothing. It has been a few months so I don't remember the setting for sure. I think ekiga just worked with the headset, but many other programs needed to have the right options selected. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 15:07:02 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: information about BIOS and stuff Message-ID: Last night I was talking to David Tilbrook about how to figure out what notebook he has. I thought the following utilities might be worth pointing out: dmidecode: dumps the DMI table from your BIOS (system ROM) biosdecode: used to be part of dmidecode but was broken out vpddecode: dumps "vital product data" on IBM and Lenovo computers ownership: dumps ownership tag in compaq computers Do read the manpages. This article (found by google) looks interesting http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/querying-dumping-bios-from-linux-command-prompt.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 15:17:39 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: thinkpad models Message-ID: Unless your thinkpad is a custom build, you can generally descibe it well with the code from the bottom label. On my x61t, I see TYPE 7762-95U PRODUCT ID 776295U These are obviously the same number presented in a different way. 7762 indicates x61t computers, I think. The 95u describes the options, I think. This is probably described somewhere on thinkwiki, but I haven't looked http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki You can see that the type and model number are used in this table: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Hardware_Specifications (This message too was prompted by discussion with David Tilbrook.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 15:36:42 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:36:42 -0400 Subject: thinkpad models In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090909153642.GE23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 11:17:39AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Unless your thinkpad is a custom build, you can generally descibe it well > with the code from the bottom label. On my x61t, I see > TYPE 7762-95U > PRODUCT ID 776295U > These are obviously the same number presented in a different way. > 7762 indicates x61t computers, I think. The 95u describes the > options, I think. > > This is probably described somewhere on thinkwiki, but I haven't > looked > http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki > You can see that the type and model number are used in this table: > http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Hardware_Specifications Well certainly lenovo knows what it is: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/quickPath.do?quickPathEntry=776295U So L7500 1.6Ghz CPU, 1GB ram, 80GB HD 5400rpm, 12.1" 1400x1050 LCD, intel X3100 graphics, intel 802.1agn (with n disabled) wifi, bluetooth, modem, Gbit ethernet, security chip, fingerpint reader, 8 cell Li-Ion battery, Windows Vista Business. Does that seem about right? My SL500 has a -CTO code at the end that explicitly means 'configure to order' so it doesn't have the option of that level of detail. The xxxx- at the start simply means SL500 as far as I remember. Mine (2746CTO) simply says 'ThinkPad SL500 Configure-To-Order system'. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 15:58:04 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:58:04 -0400 Subject: OT: online merchant Message-ID: <4AA7D08C.4040402@gmail.com> Guys just for fun I am thinking of creating an online site to sell items. I am hoping it will grow into something, but it will be a side project while I continue to work. I am wondering what are some good online merchant to work with, the only one I know of is PayPal? What are some others? -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 16:05:24 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: new kernel newbie column Message-ID: this one hurt to write: http://cli.gs/ShyJXz enjoy. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 16:24:25 2009 From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:24:25 -0400 Subject: thinkpad models In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AA7D6B9.9070206@qef.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Unless your thinkpad is a custom build, you can generally descibe it well > with the code from the bottom label. On my x61t, I see > TYPE 7762-95U > PRODUCT ID 776295U > These are obviously the same number presented in a different way. > 7762 indicates x61t computers, I think. The 95u describes the > options, I think. > > This is probably described somewhere on thinkwiki, but I haven't > looked > http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki > You can see that the type and model number are used in this table: > http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Hardware_Specifications > > (This message too was prompted by discussion with David Tilbrook.) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > It's an A31P according to the serial# and thinkwiki. -- david -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 16:41:13 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:41:13 -0400 Subject: thinkpad models In-Reply-To: <4AA7D6B9.9070206-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA7D6B9.9070206@qef.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:24 PM, David Tilbrook wrote: > It's an A31P according to the serial# and thinkwiki. There's some mighty good material there... http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installation_instructions_for_the_ThinkPad_A31p There are several guides to installing different Linux distributions, and they indicate that pretty well all the hardware is perfectly well supported on Linux. (All that wasn't clear was the modem; who has a place to call with a modem anymore ? :-)) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Samuel Goldwyn - "I'm willing to admit that I may not always be right, but I am never wrong." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/samuel_goldwyn.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 17:38:21 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 13:38:21 -0400 Subject: cpu temperature In-Reply-To: <20090908154539.GX23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA345CC.6020803@qef.com> <4AA46E68.5090700@alteeve.com> <20090908142555.GW23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA67737.7010903@gmail.com> <20090908154539.GX23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AA7E80D.3010302@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I would not use a vacuum near a computer. Vacuums generate a lot of > static electricity when the air flows through the hose, which is not > something your computer likes. > There are anti-static vacuum cleaners (gotta keep that vacuum clean ) available for use with electronic gear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 17:49:40 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:49:40 -0400 Subject: cpu temperature In-Reply-To: <4AA7E80D.3010302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA345CC.6020803@qef.com> <4AA46E68.5090700@alteeve.com> <20090908142555.GW23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA67737.7010903@gmail.com> <20090908154539.GX23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA7E80D.3010302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090909174940.GF23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 01:38:21PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I would not use a vacuum near a computer. Vacuums generate a lot of > > static electricity when the air flows through the hose, which is not > > something your computer likes. > > > > There are anti-static vacuum cleaners (gotta keep that vacuum clean ) > available for use with electronic gear. That makes sense. But I doubt most people have such a thing. In general, vacuums and electronics should not interact. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 18:15:22 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:15:22 -0400 Subject: cpu temperature In-Reply-To: <20090909174940.GF23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA345CC.6020803@qef.com> <4AA46E68.5090700@alteeve.com> <20090908142555.GW23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA67737.7010903@gmail.com> <20090908154539.GX23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA7E80D.3010302@rogers.com> <20090909174940.GF23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AA7F0BA.40400@tmis.ca> 1. clean and proper amount of thermal paste between cpu+fanblock. 2. fanblock to be mounted securely onto the motherboard. in fact, many times you have to remove the motherboard just to confirm the fanblock is snapped all the way in on all 4 corners. if all 4 are not 100% done correctly, the fanblock it not seated right, and your CPU temp will be hot and getting hotter. 3. Good airflow and ventilation of the system with large fans. 4. It is amazing how quietly and cool a well designed PC with good parts can run. Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 01:38:21PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> I would not use a vacuum near a computer. Vacuums generate a lot of >>> static electricity when the air flows through the hose, which is not >>> something your computer likes. >>> >> There are anti-static vacuum cleaners (gotta keep that vacuum clean ) >> available for use with electronic gear. > > That makes sense. But I doubt most people have such a thing. > > In general, vacuums and electronics should not interact. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 19:19:36 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 15:19:36 -0400 Subject: cpu temperature In-Reply-To: <4AA7F0BA.40400-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA345CC.6020803@qef.com> <4AA46E68.5090700@alteeve.com> <20090908142555.GW23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA67737.7010903@gmail.com> <20090908154539.GX23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA7E80D.3010302@rogers.com> <20090909174940.GF23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA7F0BA.40400@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20090909191936.GG23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 02:15:22PM -0400, teddy mills wrote: > 1. clean and proper amount of thermal paste between cpu+fanblock. > > 2. fanblock to be mounted securely onto the motherboard. > in fact, many times you have to remove the motherboard just to > confirm the fanblock is snapped all the way in on all 4 corners. > if all 4 are not 100% done correctly, the fanblock it not seated > right, and your CPU temp will be hot and getting hotter. I think we were talking about laptops in this case. :) > 3. Good airflow and ventilation of the system with large fans. > > 4. It is amazing how quietly and cool a well designed PC with good > parts can run. Sure, but laptops are a different story. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 19:58:19 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:58:19 -0400 Subject: Weird DNS question Message-ID: <4AA808DB.4090302@telly.org> Hi there, I'm having an "issue" with the friendly neighbourghood helpdesk. 1. We own a domain bar.ca 2. The webmaster of the site has asked to create a CNAME for this domain: foo.bar.ca CNAME server.domain.ws (yes, that's .ws -- Western Samoa) 3. The local admins are saying they can't do this without locally defining an entry for server.domain.ws and that they can't make an entry for an "oddball" TLD such as .ws I *hate* "you can't get there from here" answers. If the folks at have properly configured *their* DNS for host , is it not enough for our CNAME (which is just an alias) to just point to it without needing to recreate it? Is there other voodoo that I'm missing here? Any help is appreciated. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 20:04:02 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:04:02 -0400 Subject: Weird DNS question In-Reply-To: <4AA808DB.4090302-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA808DB.4090302@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090909200402.GH23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 03:58:19PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I'm having an "issue" with the friendly neighbourghood helpdesk. > > 1. We own a domain bar.ca > > 2. The webmaster of the site has asked to create a CNAME for this domain: > foo.bar.ca CNAME server.domain.ws > (yes, that's .ws -- Western Samoa) > > 3. The local admins are saying they can't do this without locally > defining an entry for server.domain.ws and that they can't make an > entry for an "oddball" TLD such as .ws Assuming the domain.ws has an entry called server.domain.ws, then your CNAME should work fine. It would have to be (assuming bind config): foo IN CNAME server.domain.ws. Note the terminating '.' > I *hate* "you can't get there from here" answers. > > If the folks at have properly configured *their* DNS for > host , is it not enough for our CNAME (which is just an alias) > to just point to it without needing to recreate it? It should be. > Is there other voodoo that I'm missing here? I think the other guys are missing something. > Any help is appreciated. Should be simple. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 20:27:50 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 00:27:50 +0400 Subject: Weird DNS question In-Reply-To: <4AA808DB.4090302-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA808DB.4090302@telly.org> Message-ID: <4AA80FC6.2030708@gmail.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi there, > > I'm having an "issue" with the friendly neighbourghood helpdesk. > > 1. We own a domain bar.ca > > 2. The webmaster of the site has asked to create a CNAME for this > domain: > foo.bar.ca CNAME server.domain.ws > (yes, that's .ws -- Western Samoa) > > 3. The local admins are saying they can't do this without locally > defining an entry for server.domain.ws and that they can't make > an entry for an "oddball" TLD such as .ws > > I am not sure, I might be entirely wrong. But isnt DNS request for TLD domain like .ws going to entity that has jurisdiction over that TLD ? I think there are quite some restrictions around there. Some countries have quite strict rules. For instance, I know that there are some restrictions in case of .PL domains. One could register and host a .PL domain outside of Poland and that happens often but that requires permission from an institution in Poland. Or am I messing up something? zb. > I *hate* "you can't get there from here" answers. > > If the folks at have properly configured *their* DNS for > host , is it not enough for our CNAME (which is just an alias) > to just point to it without needing to recreate it? > > Is there other voodoo that I'm missing here? > > Any help is appreciated. > > - Evan > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 20:44:25 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Weird DNS question In-Reply-To: <4AA808DB.4090302-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA808DB.4090302@telly.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Sep 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Is there other voodoo that I'm missing here? At the risk of making a "me too" post, I agree with Lennart's position. As described, this should 'just work' (tm). Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy http://www.practicalsysadmin.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 20:51:06 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:51:06 -0700 Subject: USB microphone on Linux In-Reply-To: <20090909131912.GD23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090909131912.GD23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0909091351o495afbfctd32f2a834bdc9716@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 6:19 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 08, 2009 at 10:27:53PM +0000, Antonio T. Sun wrote: >> I'm trying to make my USB microphone works in my Debian Testing. >> >> In brief, I'm experiencing exactly the same symptom as the following >> post: >> >> Can't record from USB Mic using ALSA >> http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=74879 >> >> I.e., everything looks perfect, just record from USB Mic get dead >> silence. >> >> I've consulted the following URLs, but the problem still remains. Is >> anyone here lucky enough to get your USB Mic working? >> >> BTW, according to >> http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2005/10/12/logitech-usb- >> desktop-microphone-under-linux/ >> Daniel was able to make the AK5370 USB Microphone works under Linux, >> which is exactly the same USB Mic that I have. >> >> Anyone can help? > > I have a USB headset, and to get recording I remember I had to specify > some IECxxx format and pick just the right speed (I think it was 48000hz > 16bit). ?Pick anything else and it did nothing. ?It has been a few months > so I don't remember the setting for sure. > > I think ekiga just worked with the headset, but many other programs > needed to have the right options selected. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I also had similar issues with my USB sound adaptor, the MIC input only worked when set to MONO and certain frequencies. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 20:51:38 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:51:38 -0400 Subject: Weird DNS question In-Reply-To: <4AA808DB.4090302-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA808DB.4090302@telly.org> Message-ID: <4AA8155A.8070600@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > (yes, that's .ws -- Western Samoa) . . . > Is there other voodoo that I'm missing here? > It may have something to do with Samoa recently switching to driving on the wrong side of the road. ;-) http://thestar.com/article/692166 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 20:53:02 2009 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 20:53:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: USB microphone on Linux References: <20090909131912.GD23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Thanks for the reply Lennart. On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 09:19:12 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> In brief, I'm experiencing exactly the same symptom as the following >> post: >> >> Can't record from USB Mic using ALSA >> http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=74879 >> >> I.e., everything looks perfect, just record from USB Mic get dead >> silence. . . > > I have a USB headset, and to get recording I remember I had to specify > some IECxxx format and pick just the right speed (I think it was 48000hz > 16bit). Pick anything else and it did nothing. It has been a few > months so I don't remember the setting for sure. Ah, the right speed! Where do you get the correct value from? Let me check my log... hmmm... I seem to have set the right speed: $ arecord -Ddefault -vv test.wav Recording WAVE 'test.wav' : Unsigned 8 bit, Rate 8000 Hz, Mono Plug PCM: Rate conversion PCM (48000, sformat=S16_LE) Its setup is: stream : CAPTURE access : RW_INTERLEAVED format : U8 subformat : STD channels : 1 rate : 8000 exact rate : 8000 (8000/1) msbits : 8 buffer_size : 2730 period_size : 170 period_time : 21333 tstamp_mode : NONE period_step : 1 avail_min : 170 period_event : 0 start_threshold : 1 stop_threshold : 2730 silence_threshold: 0 silence_size : 0 boundary : 768426686420090880 Slave: Direct Snoop PCM Its setup is: stream : CAPTURE access : MMAP_INTERLEAVED format : S16_LE subformat : STD channels : 1 rate : 48000 exact rate : 48000 (48000/1) msbits : 16 buffer_size : 16384 period_size : 1024 period_time : 21333 tstamp_mode : NONE period_step : 1 avail_min : 1024 period_event : 0 start_threshold : 6 stop_threshold : 16384 silence_threshold: 0 silence_size : 0 boundary : 4611686018427387904 Hardware PCM card 0 'AK5370 ' device 0 subdevice 0 Its setup is: stream : CAPTURE access : MMAP_INTERLEAVED format : S16_LE subformat : STD channels : 1 rate : 48000 exact rate : 48000 (48000/1) msbits : 16 buffer_size : 16384 period_size : 1024 period_time : 21333 tstamp_mode : ENABLE period_step : 1 avail_min : 1024 period_event : 0 start_threshold : 1 stop_threshold : 4611686018427387904 silence_threshold: 0 silence_size : 0 boundary : 4611686018427387904 #+ | 00%^C This is "/proc/asound/card0/stream0" _before_ and _while_ running the above arecord command: Before running arecord: $ cat /proc/asound/card0/stream0 AKM AK5370 at usb-0000:00:02.0-4, full speed : USB Audio Capture: Status: Stop Interface 1 Altset 1 Format: 0x2 Channels: 1 Endpoint: 1 IN (NONE) Rates: 8000, 11025, 22050, 44100, 48000 While running arecord: $ cat /proc/asound/card0/stream0 AKM AK5370 at usb-0000:00:02.0-4, full speed : USB Audio Capture: Status: Running Interface = 1 Altset = 1 URBs = 8 [ 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 ] Packet Size = 100 Momentary freq = 48000 Hz (0x30.0000) Interface 1 Altset 1 Format: 0x2 Channels: 1 Endpoint: 1 IN (NONE) Rates: 8000, 11025, 22050, 44100, 48000 $ cat /proc/asound/card0/stream0 AKM AK5370 at usb-0000:00:02.0-4, full speed : USB Audio Capture: Status: Stop Interface 1 Altset 1 Format: 0x2 Channels: 1 Endpoint: 1 IN (NONE) Rates: 8000, 11025, 22050, 44100, 48000 Here is my USB mic. BTW. $ cat /proc/asound/cards 0 [default ]: USB-Audio - AK5370 AKM AK5370 at usb-0000:00:02.0-4, full speed 1 [NVidia ]: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia HDA NVidia at 0xfe028000 irq 22 So, again, seems that I've done everything right, but just USB mic recording on Linux is not working for me. Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 20:59:07 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:59:07 -0700 Subject: Weird DNS question In-Reply-To: <4AA808DB.4090302-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA808DB.4090302@telly.org> Message-ID: <3a97ef0909091359x24636dc0w482dbeda7f541c6@mail.gmail.com> My own domain has links to external CNAME's without any special config. At the moment it I have 3 main definitions. One for mail, one pointing to my LAN (which updates via dyndns), and a catch-all to the general webserver for all others * 600 IN A 123.123.123.123 MAIL 600 IN CNAME ghs.google.com LAN 600 IN CNAME mysite.homeip.net I see no technical reason you couldn't have foo.bar.ca pointing to whatever external CNAME that you desire. If somebody knows a .ws domain that I can test against, I can see the BIND running on my home network can handle a CNAME for it when I return. Maybe their bind is out-of-date and can't resolve the .WS TLD? - TJA On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi there, > > I'm having an "issue" with the friendly neighbourghood helpdesk. > > We own a domain? bar.ca > > The webmaster of the site has asked to create a CNAME for this domain: > foo.bar.ca CNAME server.domain.ws > (yes, that's .ws? -- Western Samoa) > > The local admins are saying they can't do this without locally defining an > entry for server.domain.ws and that they can't make an entry for an > "oddball" TLD such as .ws > > I *hate* "you can't get there from here" answers. > > If the folks at have properly configured *their* DNS for host > , is it not enough for our CNAME (which is just an alias) to just > point to it without needing to recreate it? > > Is there other voodoo that I'm missing here? > > Any help is appreciated. > > - Evan > > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 21:18:57 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 17:18:57 -0400 Subject: wget testing Message-ID: <4AA81BC1.4010309@tmis.ca> I am doing some wget testing. I need a site (preferably Toronto) for wget tests 75mbits+ (9.6 MB/sec) (more reasonable would be 20 to 50 mbits) I asked this a few weeks ago, but I cannot find those emails. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 22:24:19 2009 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 22:24:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re-partition USB key Message-ID: Hi, I re-partitioned my USB key using gparted, but I'm having a hard time trying to make my mount know the changes. This is what it was before: $ sfdisk -l -uM Disk /dev/sdb: 499 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 sectors/track Units = mebibytes of 1048576 bytes, blocks of 1024 bytes, counting from 0 Device Boot Start End MiB #blocks Id System /dev/sdb1 0+ 807- 808- 827316 6 FAT16 /dev/sdb2 * 807+ 1796- 989- 1012095 83 Linux /dev/sdb3 1796+ 2784- 989- 1012095 83 Linux /dev/sdb4 2784+ 3914- 1130- 1156680 83 Linux This is what it is now: $ sfdisk -l -uM /dev/sdb Disk /dev/sdb: 499 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 sectors/track Units = mebibytes of 1048576 bytes, blocks of 1024 bytes, counting from 0 Device Boot Start End MiB #blocks Id System /dev/sdb1 0+ 807- 808- 827316 6 FAT16 /dev/sdb2 * 807+ 3208- 2401- 2457945 83 Linux /dev/sdb3 3208+ 3914- 706- 722925 83 Linux /dev/sdb4 0 - 0 0 0 Empty Now watch: % mount /dev/sdb2 /mnt/tmp2/ $ df | grep sdb /dev/sdb2 996148 1464 944080 1% /mnt/tmp2 % umount /dev/sdb2 $ sfdisk -V /dev/sdb /dev/sdb: OK I.e., when I mount the newly-changed 2G sdb2, 'mount' still gives me a 989M disk. I've unplugged and replugged the USB key several times, and even replugged to different USB port, but still NOK. Why? How can I fix it? Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 22:39:37 2009 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 22:39:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re-partition USB key References: Message-ID: On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:24:19 +0000, Antonio T. Sun wrote: > Hi, > > I re-partitioned my USB key using gparted, but I'm having a hard time > trying to make my mount know the changes. > > This is what it was before: > > $ sfdisk -l -uM > > Disk /dev/sdb: 499 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 sectors/track Units = > mebibytes of 1048576 bytes, blocks of 1024 bytes, counting from > 0 > > Device Boot Start End MiB #blocks Id System > /dev/sdb1 0+ 807- 808- 827316 6 FAT16 /dev/sdb2 * > 807+ 1796- 989- 1012095 83 Linux /dev/sdb3 1796+ 2784- > 989- 1012095 83 Linux /dev/sdb4 2784+ 3914- 1130- > 1156680 83 Linux > > This is what it is now: > > $ sfdisk -l -uM /dev/sdb > > Disk /dev/sdb: 499 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 sectors/track Units = > mebibytes of 1048576 bytes, blocks of 1024 bytes, counting from > 0 > > Device Boot Start End MiB #blocks Id System > /dev/sdb1 0+ 807- 808- 827316 6 FAT16 /dev/sdb2 * > 807+ 3208- 2401- 2457945 83 Linux /dev/sdb3 3208+ 3914- > 706- 722925 83 Linux /dev/sdb4 0 - 0 > 0 0 Empty > > Now watch: > > % mount /dev/sdb2 /mnt/tmp2/ > > $ df | grep sdb > /dev/sdb2 996148 1464 944080 1% /mnt/tmp2 > > % umount /dev/sdb2 > > $ sfdisk -V /dev/sdb > /dev/sdb: OK > > I.e., when I mount the newly-changed 2G sdb2, 'mount' still gives me a > 989M disk. I've unplugged and replugged the USB key several times, and > even replugged to different USB port, but still NOK. Why? Ah, found it. gparted used to format the created disks. For some reasons, it stops doing so, at least from the version that I'm using: $ apt-cache policy gparted gparted: Installed: 0.4.5-2 Candidate: 0.4.5-2 *** 0.4.5-2 0 300 http://debian.mirror.rafal.ca testing/main Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status Using mkfs.ext2 to format the created disk (/dev/sdb2) solve the problem. Antonio -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 23:48:43 2009 From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:48:43 -0400 Subject: cpu temperature In-Reply-To: <4AA46E68.5090700-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA345CC.6020803@qef.com> <4AA46E68.5090700@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4AA83EDB.7030602@qef.com> Thanks to Madison and Huge I now can retrieve the temperature and have been monitpring it.. xine drives the mercury up very quickly. Anyway, on Redhat: cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THM0/temperature On Debian: acpi -t - dt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 9 20:06:35 2009 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Weird DNS question Message-ID: <200909092006.n89K6ZxF080080@gc0.generalconcepts.com> | 2. The webmaster of the site has asked to create a CNAME for this domain: | foo.bar.ca CNAME server.domain.ws | (yes, that's .ws -- Western Samoa) | | 3. The local admins are saying they can't do this without locally | defining an entry for server.domain.ws and that they can't make an | entry for an "oddball" TLD such as .ws The local admins are mistaken. The bind data file would need an entry like foo.bar.ca IN CNAME server.domain.ws. The local nameservers would not need to know anything specific about any .ws domain. For example, under my domain, I have CNAMEs that point to rogers.com records, so I can get home from elsewhere when I want, but I don't need any rogers.com records in my DNS servers. Hope that helps - cheers! John -- John Sellens SYONEX - Systems, Operations, Networks, Expertise jsellens-dzygobQwvTvQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Suite 14 http://www.syonex.com 320 Harry Walker Pkwy N tel 905-470-9649 fax 905-470-9649 Newmarket ON L3Y 7B4 Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 10 00:02:26 2009 From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 20:02:26 -0400 Subject: TCL/TK & Tix plea In-Reply-To: <4AA7F0BA.40400-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA345CC.6020803@qef.com> <4AA46E68.5090700@alteeve.com> <20090908142555.GW23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA67737.7010903@gmail.com> <20090908154539.GX23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA7E80D.3010302@rogers.com> <20090909174940.GF23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA7F0BA.40400@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4AA84212.7010404@qef.com> For reasons I won't discuss I am still using Tcl7.4. The need to convert to tcl8.5 or even 8.6 is pressing. But I have no idea what changes I might need to make to my tcl/tk/tix applications to upgrade to 8.5 The tcl web site and tclwiki were not much help as they wouldn't allow me post anything as they were of the opinion that I was a Robot -- I'm not (but I would think that wouldn't I - Note use of contractions). Does anyone have pointers to the information I need or suggestions as to whom to consult? Thanks in advance. -- dt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 10 00:58:59 2009 From: slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 02:58:59 +0200 Subject: wget testing In-Reply-To: <4AA81BC1.4010309-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> (teddy mills's message of "Wed\, 09 Sep 2009 17\:18\:57 -0400") References: <4AA81BC1.4010309@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <87r5ufhay4.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> teddy mills a ?crit profondement: | I am doing some wget testing. | I need a site (preferably Toronto) for wget tests 75mbits+ (9.6 MB/sec) | (more reasonable would be 20 to 50 mbits) | | I asked this a few weeks ago, but I cannot find those emails. Why mot spyder your bookmarks? Should give you lots of tests and be bookmark-informative too Modify to suit your system and choice of browser This is for Opera running in HOME using Emacs cp ~/.opera/bookmarks.adr ~/bookmarks cat ~/bookmarks |grep URL > ~/BOOKMARKS emacs ~/BOOKMARKS Meta/ALT-x replace-string 1. give it #URL and CR --- replace with nothing 2. give it URL= and CR --- replace with nothing 3. CTRL-s CTRL-c --- save and exit (Sorry, I'm not VI literate) Go for it, tuning up your wget to whatever turns your crank, but basically wget --spider -i ~/BOOKMARKS Option: Extend it by saving the results to a file for later inspection and action Option: Run it as a daily/weekly/monthly CronJob and email yourself the results -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 10 01:05:16 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 21:05:16 -0400 Subject: wget testing In-Reply-To: <4AA81BC1.4010309-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA81BC1.4010309@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4AA850CC.8030001@utoronto.ca> teddy mills wrote: > > I am doing some wget testing. > I need a site (preferably Toronto) for wget tests 75mbits+ (9.6 MB/sec) > (more reasonable would be 20 to 50 mbits) > > I asked this a few weeks ago, but I cannot find those emails. For reference, the list is publicly archived: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug Your message: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/44993 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 10 01:19:46 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 21:19:46 -0400 Subject: TCL/TK & Tix plea In-Reply-To: <4AA84212.7010404-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA345CC.6020803@qef.com> <4AA46E68.5090700@alteeve.com> <20090908142555.GW23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA67737.7010903@gmail.com> <20090908154539.GX23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA7E80D.3010302@rogers.com> <20090909174940.GF23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AA7F0BA.40400@tmis.ca> <4AA84212.7010404@qef.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 8:02 PM, David Tilbrook wrote: > For reasons I won't discuss I am still using Tcl7.4. > > The need to convert to tcl8.5 or even 8.6 is pressing. > > But I have no idea what changes I might need to make to > my tcl/tk/tix applications to upgrade to 8.5 > > The tcl web site and tclwiki were not much help > as they wouldn't allow me post anything as they were > of the opinion that I was a Robot -- I'm not (but > I would think that wouldn't I - Note use of > contractions). > > Does anyone have pointers to the information I need > or suggestions as to whom to consult? There is a page on the tcl wiki that points to change lists for all versions since 7.4... http://wiki.tcl.tk/405 They list every point release; I think you only need to worry about the "major" ones, e.g. 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, 8.4, 8.5, 8.6. It's pretty terse material, but looks like it ought to be somewhat helpful. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Jonathan Swift - "May you live every day of your life." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jonathan_swift.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 10 01:23:18 2009 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 21:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: wget testing In-Reply-To: <87r5ufhay4.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK9lY98wAZ3ymN+n+qDOcVZb@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA81BC1.4010309@tmis.ca> <87r5ufhay4.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Sep 2009, Slack Rat wrote: > teddy mills a ?crit profondement: > > | I am doing some wget testing. > | I need a site (preferably Toronto) for wget tests 75mbits+ (9.6 MB/sec) > | (more reasonable would be 20 to 50 mbits) > | > | I asked this a few weeks ago, but I cannot find those emails. > > Why mot spyder your bookmarks? > > Should give you lots of tests and be bookmark-informative too > > Modify to suit your system and choice of browser > > This is for Opera running in HOME using Emacs > > cp ~/.opera/bookmarks.adr ~/bookmarks > > cat ~/bookmarks |grep URL > ~/BOOKMARKS > > emacs ~/BOOKMARKS > > Meta/ALT-x replace-string > 1. give it #URL and CR --- replace with nothing > 2. give it URL= and CR --- replace with nothing > 3. CTRL-s CTRL-c --- save and exit > (Sorry, I'm not VI literate) Why not simply: grep URL= ~/.opera/bookmarks.adr | cut -d= -f2- > ~/BOOKMARKS > Go for it, tuning up your wget to whatever turns your crank, but > basically > wget --spider -i ~/BOOKMARKS > > Option: Extend it by saving the results to a file for later inspection and > action > > Option: Run it as a daily/weekly/monthly CronJob and email yourself the > results > > -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 10 01:32:47 2009 From: slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 03:32:47 +0200 Subject: wget testing In-Reply-To: (Chris F. A. Johnson's message of "Wed\, 9 Sep 2009 21\:23\:18 -0400 \(EDT\)") References: <4AA81BC1.4010309@tmis.ca> <87r5ufhay4.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: <87y6onfutc.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> "Chris F.A. Johnson" a ?crit profondement: | grep URL= ~/.opera/bookmarks.adr | cut -d= -f2- > ~/BOOKMARKS Because I didn't know this would work Thanks -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 10 01:53:49 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 21:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not... In-Reply-To: <4A9C717A.9070300-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com> <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com> <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com> <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com> <4A8EF152.500@dinamis.com> <4A8F11B9.1080809@alteeve.com> <4A9C717A.9070300@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, tug wrote: > Two philosophers are going for a walk, when the hear people shouting at each > other across the street from their upstairs windows. One turns to the other > and says - "These people will NEVER come to an agreement. They're arguing > from different premises" :) Three mathematicians are driving past farmland in New Zealand. They see a lone black sheep standing side on, on top of a hill. They stop the car. The first mathematician says "All keep in New Zealand are black." The second mathematician says "No! at least one sheep in New Zealand is black." The third mathematician responds "You're both wrong! At least one half of one sheep in New Zealand is black." Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy http://www.practicalsysadmin.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 10 03:10:10 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 20:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: wget testing In-Reply-To: <4AA81BC1.4010309-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA81BC1.4010309@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <462976.77962.qm@web59511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I'm using http://50webs.com and very happy with the service. I could not tell you how fast its as that also depend on time of day. Good luck with your search Abby ________________________________ From: teddy mills To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 5:18:57 PM Subject: [TLUG]: wget testing I am doing some wget testing. I need a site (preferably Toronto) for wget tests 75mbits+ (9.6 MB/sec) (more reasonable would be 20 to 50 mbits) I asked this a few weeks ago, but I cannot find those emails. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer? 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brassplume-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 10 14:38:53 2009 From: brassplume-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Chris Cunnington) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: know your prototypes - know your Self Message-ID: <832404.19132.qm@web112511.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> A video blog about prototypal inheritance is starting. You can see it at the community page of http://www.smalltalktelevision.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 10 21:44:49 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:44:49 -0400 Subject: P1 128RAM In-Reply-To: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0909101444he9ce2b1s2dad0cd90c5eb11c@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 6:49 PM, edward chin wrote: > Does anyone have any recent experience with a distro on something this old? > There are lots of suggestions on fora like DSL, Puppy, Deli, and even > Mepis 6.5 (I've been unable to locate an iso even at their site - it > bounces to 8.0.06). > Most posts say stay away from DSL. I tried two v of Puppy but can't > get it to run on this box. > I'm sending this post from the box cited using Knoppix 3.2, but the > video output is poor. > > The box is from ACER MMX 233 Seems there's a new entry on the market for older machines... Lubuntu. "Lubuntu: Floats Like a Butterfly, Stings Like a Bee" http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7520/1.html Project page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 10 21:57:01 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:57:01 -0400 Subject: Re-partition USB key In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090910215701.GI23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 10:24:19PM +0000, Antonio T. Sun wrote: > I re-partitioned my USB key using gparted, but I'm having a hard > time trying to make my mount know the changes. > > This is what it was before: > > $ sfdisk -l -uM > > Disk /dev/sdb: 499 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 sectors/track > Units = mebibytes of 1048576 bytes, blocks of 1024 bytes, counting from > 0 > > Device Boot Start End MiB #blocks Id System > /dev/sdb1 0+ 807- 808- 827316 6 FAT16 > /dev/sdb2 * 807+ 1796- 989- 1012095 83 Linux > /dev/sdb3 1796+ 2784- 989- 1012095 83 Linux > /dev/sdb4 2784+ 3914- 1130- 1156680 83 Linux > > This is what it is now: > > $ sfdisk -l -uM /dev/sdb > > Disk /dev/sdb: 499 cylinders, 255 heads, 63 sectors/track > Units = mebibytes of 1048576 bytes, blocks of 1024 bytes, counting from > 0 > > Device Boot Start End MiB #blocks Id System > /dev/sdb1 0+ 807- 808- 827316 6 FAT16 > /dev/sdb2 * 807+ 3208- 2401- 2457945 83 Linux > /dev/sdb3 3208+ 3914- 706- 722925 83 Linux > /dev/sdb4 0 - 0 0 0 Empty > > Now watch: > > % mount /dev/sdb2 /mnt/tmp2/ > > $ df | grep sdb > /dev/sdb2 996148 1464 944080 1% /mnt/tmp2 > > % umount /dev/sdb2 > > $ sfdisk -V /dev/sdb > /dev/sdb: OK > > I.e., when I mount the newly-changed 2G sdb2, 'mount' still gives me > a 989M disk. I've unplugged and replugged the USB key several times, > and even replugged to different USB port, but still NOK. Why? What does /proc/partitions show the size to be? df shows the size of the filesystem, not the partition. > How can I fix it? Did you do a new mkfs on the partionions after you changed them? After all the partition doesn't control the size of the filesystem. parted can resize the filesystem at the same time if you ask it too, but make sure you unmounted all partitions before you used parted. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 10 21:59:03 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:59:03 -0400 Subject: P1 128RAM In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0909101444he9ce2b1s2dad0cd90c5eb11c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0909101444he9ce2b1s2dad0cd90c5eb11c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090910215903.GJ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 05:44:49PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Seems there's a new entry on the market for older machines... Lubuntu. > > "Lubuntu: Floats Like a Butterfly, Stings Like a Bee" > http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7520/1.html > > Project page: > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu There is also debian. If it runs on my 48M 486 it will run on a 128M P1MMX. Probably much better supported than some niche ubuntu release. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 00:42:19 2009 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:42:19 -0400 Subject: P1 128RAM In-Reply-To: <20090910215903.GJ23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0909101444he9ce2b1s2dad0cd90c5eb11c@mail.gmail.com> <20090910215903.GJ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090911004219.GA3960@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 05:59:03PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 05:44:49PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Seems there's a new entry on the market for older machines... Lubuntu. > > > > "Lubuntu: Floats Like a Butterfly, Stings Like a Bee" > > http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7520/1.html > > > > Project page: > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu > > There is also debian. If it runs on my 48M 486 it will run on a 128M > P1MMX. Probably much better supported than some niche ubuntu release. Slackware-3.3. The back of CD says 4-8MB RAM needed. :-) --William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 01:41:01 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:41:01 -0400 Subject: [OT] Cold Boot Hangs Message-ID: <4AA9AAAD.5090409@rogers.com> I have an older computer running an AMD 3200 processor on an MSI motherboard. It had been my Windows XP machine, but I no longer needed it. I replaced the small drives with three large SATA drives and installed Ubuntu. During an update (Update Manager) it crashed, and I had to reinstall Ubuntu. One of the SATA drives would disappear, and I had to switch around the cables but it seems stable now. So the problem that remains is the system will not cold boot (at least in 10 minutes). It hangs at the initial screen during the POST. A Ctr-Alt-Del reboots and this proceeds well. Can anyone suggest what I can check? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 02:59:19 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:59:19 -0400 Subject: [OT] Cold Boot Hangs In-Reply-To: <4AA9AAAD.5090409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA9AAAD.5090409@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4AA9BD07.2010501@alteeve.com> Stephen wrote: > I have an older computer running an AMD 3200 processor on an MSI > motherboard. > > It had been my Windows XP machine, but I no longer needed it. > > I replaced the small drives with three large SATA drives and installed > Ubuntu. > > During an update (Update Manager) it crashed, and I had to reinstall > Ubuntu. > > One of the SATA drives would disappear, and I had to switch around the > cables but it seems stable now. > > So the problem that remains is the system will not cold boot (at least > in 10 minutes). > > It hangs at the initial screen during the POST. > > A Ctr-Alt-Del reboots and this proceeds well. > > Can anyone suggest what I can check? > > Thanks > Stephen BIOS update for better large drive support? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 05:01:49 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:01:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Canadian copyright consultation -- ending September 13! Message-ID: The government of Canada plans on introducing new copyright legislation the fall or winter. The Conservatives introduced C61 but it "died on the order paper" when they called the last election. They got a lot of criticism for not consulting the public before introducing this. They started the the consultation a little over a month ago. It is closing on Sunday. It would be good to let them hear what you think. Here is the official consultation web site: http://copyright.econsultation.ca/ It includes a way of submitting comments. Prof. Michael Geist is very useful on this topic. Here is a site that he set up: http://www.speakoutoncopyright.ca/ See also: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6315846683 http://www.speakoutoncopyright.ca/copyright-take-action http://www.flora.ca/documents/copyright-200908-consensus.pdf http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/08/my-canadian-copyright-consulta.html http://craphound.com/CanadianCopyrightConsultation.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 05:48:25 2009 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Canadian copyright consultation -- ending September 13! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Canadian Coalition for Electronic Rights has a letter wizard that sends a letter to the Prime Minister. Tony Clement and several other people. If your interested you can see it here... http://www.ccer.ca/send-a-letter-to-ottawa-to-stop-the-canadian-dmca/ > The government of Canada plans on introducing new copyright legislation > the fall or winter. > > The Conservatives introduced C61 but it "died on the order paper" when > they called the last election. They got a lot of criticism for not > consulting the public before introducing this. > > They started the the consultation a little over a month ago. It is > closing on Sunday. It would be good to let them hear what you think. > > Here is the official consultation web site: > http://copyright.econsultation.ca/ > It includes a way of submitting comments. > > Prof. Michael Geist is very useful on this topic. Here is a site that > he set up: > http://www.speakoutoncopyright.ca/ > > See also: > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6315846683 > http://www.speakoutoncopyright.ca/copyright-take-action > http://www.flora.ca/documents/copyright-200908-consensus.pdf > http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/08/my-canadian-copyright-consulta.html > http://craphound.com/CanadianCopyrightConsultation.html > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 11:17:56 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:17:56 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 Message-ID: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> It is with heavy heart that I report the passing of a good friend; Leah Kubik. It seems that she was engaged in some late-night adventuring, and in an attempt to leap from one building to another, she fell several floors and was fatally injured. There is no good way to relay this. She was a friend, an inspiration and a hero of mine. We will all miss her. djp http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/694137 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 12:01:56 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:01:56 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA31E4.7020507-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: On 9/11/09, David J Patrick wrote: > It is with heavy heart that I report the passing of a good friend; Leah > Kubik. It seems that she was engaged in some late-night adventuring, and > in an attempt to leap from one building to another, she fell several > floors and was fatally injured. There is no good way to relay this. > > She was a friend, an inspiration and a hero of mine. > We will all miss her. Very tragic. What would the best address be to send condolances to Joe Kubik? Thanks. Colin. > djp > > http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/694137 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 12:12:11 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:12:11 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA31E4.7020507-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4AAA3E9B.3030604@alteeve.com> David J Patrick wrote: > It is with heavy heart that I report the passing of a good friend; Leah > Kubik. It seems that she was engaged in some late-night adventuring, and > in an attempt to leap from one building to another, she fell several > floors and was fatally injured. There is no good way to relay this. > > She was a friend, an inspiration and a hero of mine. > We will all miss her. > > djp > > http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/694137 Oh my god, that was Leah!?! I was talking to her just a couple of days ago!! :'( Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 13:58:50 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:58:50 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA31E4.7020507-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4AAA579A.3030106@rogers.com> Has she been to TLUG meetings? The name sounds familiar. David J Patrick wrote: > It is with heavy heart that I report the passing of a good friend; > Leah Kubik. It seems that she was engaged in some late-night > adventuring, and in an attempt to leap from one building to another, > she fell several floors and was fatally injured. There is no good way > to relay this. > > She was a friend, an inspiration and a hero of mine. > We will all miss her. > > djp > > http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/694137 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 14:22:55 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:22:55 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA579A.3030106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA579A.3030106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4AAA5D3F.2020708@linuxcaffe.ca> James Knott wrote: > Has she been to TLUG meetings? The name sounds familiar. She was a member, a presenter and a semi-regular GSU pub attendee. She worked for IBM, SuSE and the Hard Rock Cafe, and once called herself "the Queen of SSL". Her passing leaves a tattered hole in the fabric of the linux community. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 14:23:01 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:23:01 -0400 Subject: P1 128RAM In-Reply-To: <20090911004219.GA3960-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0909101444he9ce2b1s2dad0cd90c5eb11c@mail.gmail.com> <20090910215903.GJ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090911004219.GA3960@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20090911142301.GK23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 08:42:19PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Slackware-3.3. The back of CD says 4-8MB RAM needed. :-) I was talking about something with current software that was nice to use and had security updates. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 15:13:58 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:13:58 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA5D3F.2020708-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA579A.3030106@rogers.com> <4AAA5D3F.2020708@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4AAA6936.5030807@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Has she been to TLUG meetings? The name sounds familiar. > She was a member, a presenter and a semi-regular GSU pub attendee. > She worked for IBM, SuSE and the Hard Rock Cafe, and once called > herself "the Queen of SSL". Her passing leaves a tattered hole in the > fabric of the linux community. > djp After I gave it some more thought, I realized who she was. Sad. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 15:21:21 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:21:21 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA5D3F.2020708-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA579A.3030106@rogers.com> <4AAA5D3F.2020708@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:22 AM, David J Patrick wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> >> Has she been to TLUG meetings? ?The name sounds familiar. > > She was a member, a presenter and a semi-regular GSU pub attendee. > She worked for IBM, SuSE and the Hard Rock Cafe, and once called herself > "the Queen of SSL". Her passing leaves a tattered hole in the fabric of the > linux community. One of my phones still has a picture on it of her @ TLUG wearing the most awesome Viking helmet, which was the sort of thing she'd do. A happy remembrance. Alas, alongside rather a lot that is sad. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach - "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/marie_von_ebnereschenbac.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 15:23:54 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:23:54 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA579A.3030106@rogers.com> <4AAA5D3F.2020708@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4AAA6B8A.4030905@linuxcaffe.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > One of my phones still has a picture on it of her @ TLUG wearing the > most awesome Viking helmet, which was the sort of thing she'd do. will you post that to the list for us ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 15:27:02 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:27:02 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA6B8A.4030905-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA579A.3030106@rogers.com> <4AAA5D3F.2020708@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA6B8A.4030905@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4AAA6C46.5040004@alteeve.com> David J Patrick wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: > >> One of my phones still has a picture on it of her @ TLUG wearing the >> most awesome Viking helmet, which was the sort of thing she'd do. > > will you post that to the list for us ? > djp Here is her last IM avatar. She's still showing online. :( -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: leah_im_pic.png Type: image/png Size: 14233 bytes Desc: not available URL: From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 15:40:53 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:40:53 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA6C46.5040004-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA579A.3030106@rogers.com> <4AAA5D3F.2020708@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA6B8A.4030905@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA6C46.5040004@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4AAA6F85.2070205@tmis.ca> Not easy to work today. Even though I did not know her well, you can tell just from her weblogs, and things she writes about, she was a very special individual. Madison Kelly wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: >> Christopher Browne wrote: >> >>> One of my phones still has a picture on it of her @ TLUG wearing the >>> most awesome Viking helmet, which was the sort of thing she'd do. >> >> will you post that to the list for us ? >> djp > > Here is her last IM avatar. She's still showing online. :( > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 15:45:37 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:45:37 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA6F85.2070205-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA579A.3030106@rogers.com> <4AAA5D3F.2020708@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA6B8A.4030905@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA6C46.5040004@alteeve.com> <4AAA6F85.2070205@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0909110845o63a9c0ccy593f39c3f5e9c96a@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:40 AM, teddy mills wrote: > Not easy to work today. Yeah, same here. Wanted to post something after David's initial message, but just couldn't get the words out. > Even though I did not know her well, you can tell just from her weblogs, and > things she writes about, she was a very special individual. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 15:46:27 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:46:27 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA6F85.2070205-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA579A.3030106@rogers.com> <4AAA5D3F.2020708@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA6B8A.4030905@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA6C46.5040004@alteeve.com> <4AAA6F85.2070205@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <92ee967a0909110846vbdd5633r46e6235c64c3c84e@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:40 AM, teddy mills wrote: > Not easy to work today. > > Even though I did not know her well, you can tell just from her weblogs, and > things she writes about, she was a very special individual. I'm going to be at Spadina circle around 6:30 tonight. Let me know if I have company there and we can meet up in front of the GSU pub or something. :-( -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 16:02:37 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:02:37 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0909110846vbdd5633r46e6235c64c3c84e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA579A.3030106@rogers.com> <4AAA5D3F.2020708@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA6B8A.4030905@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA6C46.5040004@alteeve.com> <4AAA6F85.2070205@tmis.ca> <92ee967a0909110846vbdd5633r46e6235c64c3c84e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AAA749D.10208@linuxcaffe.ca> Mike Kallies wrote: > I'm going to be at Spadina circle around 6:30 tonight. Let me know if > I have company there and we can meet up in front of the GSU pub or > something. > see you there, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 16:23:05 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:23:05 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA6F85.2070205-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA579A.3030106@rogers.com> <4AAA5D3F.2020708@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA6B8A.4030905@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA6C46.5040004@alteeve.com> <4AAA6F85.2070205@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4AAA7969.1080902@alteeve.com> teddy mills wrote: > Not easy to work today. > > Even though I did not know her well, you can tell just from her weblogs, > and things she writes about, she was a very special individual. Being melancholic here at the office, no real work is getting done. So I started checking out Leah's recent posts and came across her last two blog posts. Looks like she was really thinking about turning 30. Anyway, in her style, there were fitting and funny posts. I hope no one objects, but I'd like to repost them here for the archives. --------------------------------------------- 15 Days until 30 September 8th, 2009 1. Friends don?t let friends drink and Craigslist. 2. ?Whenever a thing is done for the first time, it releases a little demon.? ?Emily Dickinson 3. Experience leads to either bitterness or strength. You decide which. 4. Not every day can be new years eve. 5. Talk to yourself. You wouldn?t want to get lonely, would you? 6. Keep going. Just fucking keep going. 7. Really accomplished people should be shot. 8. Letters and cards can save lives. 9. Always keep some kind of spicy sausage on hand. 10. Make you?re own damned fun! 11. Learn a bunch of stupid jokes. Tell them incessantly. 12. Environment is more important than most people will ever know. 13. Be not afraid. 14. Always remove the packing material from your new stove before cooking in it. 15. If life give you lemons, you probably should stop buying Fiats. 20 days until 30 September 3rd, 2009 Life has been very interesting lately. Since I?m nearing 30 any day now, for posterity, I would like to make note of some things that I have learned so far. These are in random order, as they pop into my head, and are exceedingly dumb. 1. If you joke about doing something for too long in IRC, eventually, no matter how ridiculous it may seem, it will become reality. 2. Even if you have nothing left to lose, you still have something to give 3. It is better to laugh wryly at yourself, than to wallow in self-pity. 4. If you truly live a life of no regrets, eventually you?ll lose your soul. 5. Listen to your fortune cookie: All thing has a cause, look into your pass for answers. 6. Life is what happens when you?re doing something out of the ordinary. 7. Art is always better when it is for someone else. 8. Prayer never stops being important. 9. To err is human, to moo is bovine. 10. It is always darkest before it goes pitch black. 11. If work is annoying, burn down the office. 12. Music is vital. 13. A few close friends and family are worth more than any other distraction. 14. Being devious is more satisfying than being smart. 15. All you need is love. 16. That last one isn?t entirely true. 17. Traveling is not optional. 18. If you?re going to be crazy, you may as well revel in it. 19. Help other people, no one else will. 20. Fish are actually plants. --------------------------------------------- Above from: http://wolverog.com/ Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 16:48:50 2009 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 Message-ID: <64184.3903.qm@web110807.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Can you post time/place for funeral? --William __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 16:51:51 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:51:51 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <64184.3903.qm-Y34AK2gV3GxeqboJWQvT7/u2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <64184.3903.qm@web110807.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AAA8027.4010007@linuxcaffe.ca> William Park wrote: > Can you post time/place for funeral? as soon as I hear it, djp A few of us will be gathering this evening around the scene of the tragic event (1 Spadina Circle) around 6:30pm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 17:03:16 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:03:16 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA31E4.7020507-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4AAA82D4.6010101@gmail.com> David J Patrick wrote: > It is with heavy heart that I report the passing of a good friend; Leah > Kubik. It seems that she was engaged in some late-night adventuring, and > in an attempt to leap from one building to another, she fell several > floors and was fatally injured. There is no good way to relay this. > > She was a friend, an inspiration and a hero of mine. > We will all miss her. I initially heard a 3rd hand account of this story from my gf who told me of a women passing away at UofT in a haunted building just last night. I didn't know Leah, but when I heard the news of this tragedy, it made me sad. I forgot to look into this story myself, but now after reading this thread I feel really sad about Leah's death and my condolences to her family and friends. Right now, it's hitting me harder knowing there are many people on this list who knew her first hard, and although I never met her, the story and who she was feels more real just because of the relatedness of this community ='( > > djp > > http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/694137 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 17:22:11 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:22:11 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA82D4.6010101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA82D4.6010101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AAA8743.6090304@linuxcaffe.ca> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > Right now, it's hitting me harder knowing there are many people on this > list who knew her first hard, and although I never met her, the story > and who she was feels more real just because of the relatedness of this > community ='( when linuxcaffe was just opening, Leah and Joseph picked up the sysadmin torch from Robert Brockway, and the two of them spent weeks of late nights making the impossible happen. Leah just would not quit and would not be daunted by the fact that something had never been done. They tore through technical challenges like pit-bulls, sometimes working till the sun came up, and in exchange for pizza, beer and love. She was a genius iconoclast; smart, sexy and sarcastic. I will never forget her and dealing with this loss is going to take me a while. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 11 20:24:38 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:24:38 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA749D.10208-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA579A.3030106@rogers.com> <4AAA5D3F.2020708@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA6B8A.4030905@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAA6C46.5040004@alteeve.com> <4AAA6F85.2070205@tmis.ca> <92ee967a0909110846vbdd5633r46e6235c64c3c84e@mail.gmail.com> <4AAA749D.10208@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4AAAB206.3050706@alteeve.com> David J Patrick wrote: > Mike Kallies wrote: >> I'm going to be at Spadina circle around 6:30 tonight. Let me know if >> I have company there and we can meet up in front of the GSU pub or >> something. >> > see you there, > djp Drew and I will come after work, too. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 02:23:14 2009 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:23:14 -0400 Subject: tragic news; Leah Cunnungham/Kubik 1980 - 2009 In-Reply-To: <4AAA31E4.7020507-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAA31E4.7020507@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <1252722194.9758.1334439557@webmail.messagingengine.com> I just learned tonight from a friend. I'm in a daze. My heart goes out to Joseph, and to Leah's family and friends. I didn't know Leah well, largely because I was too much in awe of her. She was a powerhouse. Her quirky character, her straightforwardness and outspokenness, her willingness to go right ahead and do things other people would shrink from. She and Joseph were also instrumental in encouraging me and my partner, both Americans, to get off our duffs and complete the Canadian immigration process. Just knowing that someone like her existed made the world a better place. Damn it. :'( Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 04:53:39 2009 From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 00:53:39 -0400 Subject: /etc/yum.conf Message-ID: <4AAB2953.6080407@qef.com> Somehow I appear to have corrupted my /etc/yum.conf and lost my base url and who knows what else. Could Redhatter mail a legit /etc/yum.conf to me. Thanks. - david -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 04:54:51 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 00:54:51 -0400 Subject: vector graphic In-Reply-To: <4AA503BF.1080706-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA488EF.8070402@gmail.com> <20090907012851.795a5d44.hgibson@eol.ca> <4AA4A610.8010308@gmail.com> <4AA503BF.1080706@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <4AAB299B.2000905@gmail.com> Elliott Chapin wrote: > Xfig - I'll take a look too. I've installed Inkscape. Hi Elliott, thanks again for bringing Inkscape to my attention, I was able to vectorize my bitmap image and it came out flawless. It took me a while to figure out how to "invert" the solid and transparent areas. I was looking for something more complicated about tweaking the alpha colour, didn't notice the "invert" checkbox option Ha! =P In no time I was downloading SVG images and create my own mashup. I am planning to make some custom tees, and being able to work with layers is just when I needed for screen printing. > On 09/07/2009 02:20 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Howard Gibson wrote: >>> On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 00:15:43 -0400 >>> Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> I have a large bitmap image that I would like to trace around and >>>> create a vectorized image from it. >>>> >>>> Is there a program that will allow me to do this? >>>> I need to be able to save in one of these formats: .pdf, .ai, .cdr, >>>> .eps >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kind Regards, >>>> Rajider Yadav >>> >>> Rejider, >>> >>> I have done that with Xfig. Xfig imports bitmap graphics, and it is a >>> vector graphics program capable of saving in PDF and EPS format. >>> >>> Read the man page. >> >> Thanks Howard, I just installed xfig and will play around with it. >> >> I just realized I butcher my own signature file and misspelled my own >> name =) >> > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 06:29:21 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 02:29:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: /etc/yum.conf In-Reply-To: <4AAB2953.6080407-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAB2953.6080407@qef.com> Message-ID: | From: David Tilbrook | Somehow I appear to have corrupted my /etc/yum.conf | and lost my base url and who knows what else. | | Could Redhatter mail a legit /etc/yum.conf to me. What are the symptoms? There are no URLs in yum.conf. They show up in files within /etc/yum.repos.d/ I've included the yum.conf from a Fedora Core 5 system I have (probably closer to your system than my Fedora Core 11). On that system: $ rpm -qf /etc/yum.repos.d/fedora-core.repo fedora-release-5-5 You could try (adjusted for your release): $ rpm -V fedora-release-5-5 That would tell you what .repo files got munged (if any). On my system, it prints: S.5....T c /etc/yum.repos.d/fedora-updates.repo but that is expected because I had manually edited that file. ================ start of file ================ [main] cachedir=/var/cache/yum keepcache=0 debuglevel=2 logfile=/var/log/yum.log pkgpolicy=newest distroverpkg=redhat-release tolerant=1 exactarch=1 obsoletes=1 gpgcheck=1 plugins=1 metadata_expire=1800 # PUT YOUR REPOS HERE OR IN separate files named file.repo # in /etc/yum.repos.d ================ end ================ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 09:02:44 2009 From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 05:02:44 -0400 Subject: /etc/yum.conf In-Reply-To: References: <4AAB2953.6080407@qef.com> Message-ID: <4AAB63B4.2000404@qef.com> I did as Huge suggested but now: $ yum search ... yielded: Searching Packages: Setting up repositories Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: updates-released Error: Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: updates-released Any further suggestions? -- dt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 11:53:38 2009 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:53:38 -0400 Subject: /etc/yum.conf In-Reply-To: <4AAB63B4.2000404-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAB2953.6080407@qef.com> <4AAB63B4.2000404@qef.com> Message-ID: <20090912115337.GR3538@adb.ca> David Tilbrook wrote: > Error: Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: updates-released > > Any further suggestions? You're almost certainly missing one of the files in /etc/yum.repos.d/ that would contain that bit. Unfortunately, the only RPM-based system I can get to is a CentOS box, where the file is called CentOS-Base.repo and points to their servers, but indications are that either obtaining and reinstalling a fedora-release RPM via other means (FTP may still exist, or it'll be on the install CD if you still have it) or getting the equivalent file from someone else's similar-release-level system should do it. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 12:05:32 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 08:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: /etc/yum.conf In-Reply-To: <20090912115337.GR3538-SACILpcuo74@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAB2953.6080407@qef.com> <4AAB63B4.2000404@qef.com> <20090912115337.GR3538@adb.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Sep 2009, Anthony de Boer wrote: > David Tilbrook wrote: > > Error: Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: updates-released > > > > Any further suggestions? > > You're almost certainly missing one of the files in > /etc/yum.repos.d/ that would contain that bit. Unfortunately, the > only RPM-based system I can get to is a CentOS box, where the file > is called CentOS-Base.repo and points to their servers, but > indications are that either obtaining and reinstalling a > fedora-release RPM via other means (FTP may still exist, or it'll be > on the install CD if you still have it) or getting the equivalent > file from someone else's similar-release-level system should do it. i'm running f11 x86_64 here, and i've attached my updates repo file if that's all you're looking for. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -------------- next part -------------- [updates] name=Fedora $releasever - $basearch - Updates failovermethod=priority #baseurl=http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/updates/$releasever/$basearch/ mirrorlist=https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/metalink?repo=updates-released-f$releasever&arch=$basearch enabled=1 gpgcheck=1 gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-$basearch [updates-debuginfo] name=Fedora $releasever - $basearch - Updates - Debug failovermethod=priority #baseurl=http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/updates/$releasever/$basearch/debug/ mirrorlist=https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/metalink?repo=updates-released-debug-f$releasever&arch=$basearch enabled=0 gpgcheck=1 gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-$basearch [updates-source] name=Fedora $releasever - Updates Source failovermethod=priority #baseurl=http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/updates/$releasever/SRPMS/ mirrorlist=https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/metalink?repo=updates-released-source-f$releasever&arch=$basearch enabled=0 gpgcheck=1 gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-$basearch From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 14:52:39 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: /etc/yum.conf In-Reply-To: <4AAB63B4.2000404-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAB2953.6080407@qef.com> <4AAB63B4.2000404@qef.com> Message-ID: | From: David Tilbrook | I did as Huge suggested but now: | | $ yum search ... | | yielded: | | Searching Packages: | Setting up repositories | Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: updates-released | Error: Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: updates-released | | Any further suggestions? 1) tell us which Fedora you are running. You told me, but it was in a bar so I cannot be expected to remember :-) 2) show us an ls -l of /etc/yum.repos.d/ 3) show us what is in /etc/yum.repos.d/fedora-updates.repo 4) I get a similar message on Fedora Core 5 when I do $ yum search moon ... Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: core Error: Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: core I think that means that the repositories have been retired. In /etc/yum.repos.d/fedora-core.repo, there was: #baseurl=http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/$releasever/$basearch/os/ mirrorlist=http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors/fedora-core-$releasever If you go look for that mirrorlist, it is gone. So I comment it out and uncomment the baseurl line. I still have a problem, but when I explore, I find http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/5/README which says: ATTENTION ====================================== The contents of this directory have been moved to our archives available at: http://archives.fedoraproject.org/pub/archive/fedora/ If you are having troubles finding something there please stop by #fedora-admin on irc.freenode.net By changing the baseurl, I get it to work (but yum then doesn't like my updates URL, and I haven't bothered to fix that: #baseurl=http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/$releasever/$basearch/os/ baseurl=http://archives.fedoraproject.org/pub/archive/fedora/linux/core/$releasever/$basearch/os/ -------------------------- -------------- I haven't bothered to fix the fedora-updates.repo file. I don't know if that is similarly easy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 15:16:32 2009 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:16:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Suspend / Hibernation under Debian Message-ID: Hi, The Suspend / Hibernation feature works out of box in Unbunto on my Acer Aspire (AS5536), but I want my Debian (debootstrap based) works the same as well. How should I do that? I meant, there seems so many packages/ tools able to do that, which are the recommended ones? I've done some extensive search but this is the only Debian-based writing that I found, which makes use of s2ram: Put your Debian Lenny laptop to Sleep http://www.debiantutorials.org/put-lenny-to-sleep-debian-gnulinux- lenny-308 Please help me to the correct direction. Anyone know a good web page that covers setting up suspend / hibernation under Debian? PS. my Debian is debootstrap based, ie, only the packages that I hand picked are installed. I'd like to know the recommend package combinations that provide the function, and better not desktop specific, because I normally don't use any desktops but a simple window manager (fluxbox). Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 15:18:21 2009 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:18:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Touchpad middle-click Message-ID: Hi, On my Acer Aspire (AS5536), there is no way to simulate a middle-click by pressing both the right and left mouse key. But I badly need this middle- click to paste in the x-selections. I searched like crazy and found a posting which says, "In my debian I have set Fn+ctrl as middle click and Fn+alt as right click" http://linux.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/ comp.os.linux.powerpc/2005-08/0035.html This is really a neat solution. It doesn't need any extra packages/ layers, but I can't get it works. Is it a mac specific tweak? Else, anyone knows how exactly he did it? Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 15:24:46 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 11:24:46 -0400 Subject: Touchpad middle-click In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090912152446.GA5312@watson-wilon.ca> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 03:18:21PM +0000, Antonio T. Sun wrote: >On my Acer Aspire (AS5536), there is no way to simulate a middle-click by >pressing both the right and left mouse key. But I badly need this middle- >click to paste in the x-selections. Does ctrl-v or shft-insert not work for you? -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 15:23:56 2009 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:23:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re-partition USB key References: <20090910215701.GI23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:57:01 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> How can I fix it? > > Did you do a new mkfs on the partionions after you changed them? Thanks Len, that's exactly the reason. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 16:48:51 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 12:48:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: /etc/yum.conf In-Reply-To: References: <4AAB2953.6080407@qef.com> <4AAB63B4.2000404@qef.com> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | I haven't bothered to fix the fedora-updates.repo file. I don't know | if that is similarly easy. It looks as if the updates to FC5 exist but the repository metadata does not. Assuming that is true for your obsolete version, you might have to download all the updates yourself and build your own metadata (using createrepo(8)). Even better: update to a current release. By which I mean: install a new release -- there is no actual automatic update path that I'd recommend. CentOS 5.3 would be the shortest jump from what you've got. It is based on RHEL 5.3 which in turn is based of Fedora Core 6, I think. CentOS does not have the latest and greatest components but it is solid and has a longish lifetime (if things go to plan). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 17:12:03 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:12:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: thinkpad models In-Reply-To: <4AA7D6B9.9070206-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org> References: <4AA7D6B9.9070206@qef.com> Message-ID: | From: David Tilbrook | It's an A31P according to the serial# and thinkwiki. Bad news: I think that the A31p's USB ports are version 1.1. That means that they are inadequate for an external DVD burner. You could buy a PCMCIA card with USB 2.x ports. http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-58281.html Good news: your T40 has two USB version 2.0 ports and should be able to support an external DVD burner. http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-58185.html I don't know what your docking station supports. It may have an UltraBay, but an UltraBay drive is expensive. (I have a pending order for an UltraBay Slim BluRay Burner at the laughable price of $35.07 but it isn't being processed after almost a month. I guess that is how levovo deals with price errors.) As far as PCMCIA USB cards: These look good but are probably gone (there may be one in Woodbridge): http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=AD1422 These are more expensive: http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=US9032 The TechDirect, junk store on the south side of college, east of Spadina used to have things like that but I haven't looked recently. You can find some at Canada Computers: http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProdList&cmd=pl&id=IOC.313.574 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 17:23:32 2009 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:23:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Touchpad middle-click References: <20090912152446.GA5312@watson-wilon.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 11:24:46 -0400, Neil Watson wrote: > I badly need this middle- >>click to paste in the x-selections. > > Does ctrl-v or shft-insert not work for you? yes, shft-insert works, but it is inconvenient -- it requires both hands and my right hand needs to travel a long distance from touchpad back and forth to reach the insert key. Fn+ctrl and Fn+alt OTOH, is really a neat solution. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 20:04:44 2009 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:04:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Ubuntu frugal installation Message-ID: Hi, How can I do a frugal installation of Ubuntu? (ie, install as-is without expanding) I've found this, but it seems not for ubuntu 9.04. I tried apply the same method with ubuntu 9.04 but wasn't successful. How to Install Ubuntu Linux on a USB Flash Drive http://www.ixibo.com/2009/04/how-to-install-ubuntu-linux-on-a-usb-flash- drive/ I know there are easy ways to install Ubuntu Linux on USB drive. EG, Easy Way To Install Ubuntu Linux On USB Drive http://www.technixupdate.com/easy-way-to-install-ubuntu-linux-on-usb- drive/ Install Ubuntu 9.04 to a USB pen drive http://www.talkonsomething.com/2009/08/install-ubuntu-9-04-to-a-usb-pen- drive/ but my USB is already well partitioned, and I want to install Ubuntu into a partition without interfering the files on the partition and other partitions. Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 12 23:07:15 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:07:15 -0400 Subject: OT: CMS advice for event registration Message-ID: <1252796835.11397.103.camel@gont> Hi folks, has anyone used a CMS with a really good event registration plugin? I'm building a registration site for a canoe race that needs to generate some of the form elements dynamically (people sign up for a race, then choose which boat they're on or else add a new boat; the list of boats is grabbed from mysql, because it's always changing). I've started coding something from scratch; since i am very lousy coder it's going very slowly, but I've at least learned a little javascript, which is kinda fun. Doing it this way is nice because i can design the database myself and, now that' I've learned how to do it, adding dynamic form elements is pretty straightforward. However, i'd like to have this be something i can pass on to someone else to administer in future, and it would be nice if it integrates with an easy-to-use weeb framework -- I was thinking drupal, which seems to be pretty good at creating a calendar of events, integrating that with other kinds of content, etc. It would also be great if the databasing was all done for me, and reports were relatively easy to generate -- i haven't dealt with that part yet and since my php is very clumsy i expect it will take me a pretty long time on my own. However, trying to get drupal to do what i want seems like more work than writing from scratch! it seems impossible -- but I can't for the life of me figure out how to generate a flexible signup form, and then get the info I want stored inside drupal. It can't be as hard as i think it is, but the drupal ecosystem is pretty complicated and i can't navigate it very well. Modules that seem like they'd help (signup, event, a couple others) don't seem to do what I want -- though if you use them and know they would, pleeeeaase let me know! Anyway -- a longwinded way of asking if anyone's done something similar to this, or has better advice than semi-random googling can offer! thanks as always to the group, Matt -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 13 00:10:47 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:10:47 -0400 Subject: OT: CMS advice for event registration In-Reply-To: <1252796835.11397.103.camel@gont> References: <1252796835.11397.103.camel@gont> Message-ID: <4AAC3887.7010506@dinamis.com> On 12/09/09 07:07 PM, Matt Price wrote: > has anyone used a CMS with a really good event registration plugin? > I'm building a registration site for a canoe race that needs to generate > some of the form elements dynamically (people sign up for a race, then > choose which boat they're on or else add a new boat; the list of boats > is grabbed from mysql, because it's always changing). [snip] > However, trying to get drupal to do what i want seems like more work > than writing from scratch! it seems impossible -- but I can't for the > life of me figure out how to generate a flexible signup form, and then > get the info I want stored inside drupal. It can't be as hard as i > think it is, but the drupal ecosystem is pretty complicated and i can't > navigate it very well. Modules that seem like they'd help (signup, > event, a couple others) don't seem to do what I want -- though if you > use them and know they would, pleeeeaase let me know! Not a perfect fit but it might be of use: . Being in Drupal 5, I consider it outdated but many people are still running D5 sites and D5 still gets security updates. But, you're right. It is complex. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 13 04:13:29 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 00:13:29 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu frugal installation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1252815209.11397.1024.camel@gont> On Sat, 2009-09-12 at 20:04 +0000, Antonio T. Sun wrote: > Hi, > > How can I do a frugal installation of Ubuntu? (ie, install as-is without > expanding) hi antonio, i'm not really quite sure what you're asking. do you want a guide to installing ubuntu on a usb key? or are you looking for what's often called a "lightweight" installation of ubuntu. if you just want a lightweight install, you can try the new lxde flavour of ubuntu, i think called Lubuntu, or Crunchbang linux, which is based on openbox. Or, since I seem to recall you use fluxbox, why not just choose the alternatice installation disk, and install only the packages you really want (much as you would do on debian)? matt -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 13 16:09:12 2009 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:09:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Ubuntu frugal installation References: <1252815209.11397.1024.camel@gont> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 00:13:29 -0400, Matt Price wrote: >> How can I do a frugal installation of Ubuntu? (ie, install as-is >> without expanding) > > i'm not really quite sure what you're asking. . . Thanks Matt, here is what's a frugal install: http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/wiki/index.php/Frugal_Install A Frugal install is where you boot off the hard drive/USB, usually via grub or lilo, and load the compressed image (/KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX) off of the hard drive or a usb stick. It essentially consists of loading the linux kernel using a boot loader which in turns loads the initial ramdisk (initrd). The initrd then loads the root file system which, in this case, consists of a linux compressed loop (cloop) file -- /KNOPPIX/KNOPPIX. I.e., the root file compressed image is installed as-is without expanding. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 13 21:34:55 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:34:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: free laser printer Message-ID: Would anyone like my Brother HL1435 printer? http://solutions.brother.com/hl1435/spec.html It works fine with Linux. The only problem is that it has no toner. Toner cartridges are almost as expensive as on-sale lasers printers. http://www.staples.ca/ENG/Catalog/cat_class.asp?CatIds=419%2C422,1150&name=MD_Brother_HL-1435& If you are willing to refill the cartridge, the price gets better. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 13 21:41:20 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:41:20 -0400 Subject: free laser printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7c50d3570909131441r449836c0mdde427037a104166@mail.gmail.com> I need a printer, but by now it's probably been spoken for. On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 17:34, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Would anyone like my Brother HL1435 printer? > ?http://solutions.brother.com/hl1435/spec.html > It works fine with Linux. > > The only problem is that it has no toner. ?Toner cartridges are almost > as expensive as on-sale lasers printers. > ?http://www.staples.ca/ENG/Catalog/cat_class.asp?CatIds=419%2C422,1150&name=MD_Brother_HL-1435& > > If you are willing to refill the cartridge, the price gets better. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 13 22:02:17 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: free non-functional HTPC Message-ID: I got an interesting Home Theatre PC from freecycle a while ago. http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008689&cid=527.546 (Not precisely correct) http://www.higrade.com/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=3254 - I've never gotten it to work but I didn't try very hard. I just don't have time. - the previous owner didn't get it to work. I don't know how hard they tried. - I'm including a CPU that I got for it from craigslist. I am only assuming that the CPU works. 3GHz P4 LGA775 - the CPU is a P4, not my favourite choice for a HTPC - it includes a bunch of nice things: nice case, dual TV tuner, nVidia GeForce 6600 video card, notebook DVD burner, lots of cables. - it is missing RAM and HD. - the cards are on a riser, with one common backplate so it is awkward to remove them and use them in another machine - I've taken out the miniPCI wireless card. I would love to hand this on to someone who intends to try to get this working. If nobody wants it as a whole, I'll consider giving away parts. I expect to wait about 24 hours for "bids". No, I don't mean money -- this is free. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 13 22:16:53 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:16:53 -0400 Subject: free non-functional HTPC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AAD6F55.4000607@linuxcaffe.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I got an interesting Home Theatre PC from freecycle a while ago. > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008689&cid=527.546 > (Not precisely correct) > > http://www.higrade.com/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=3254 totally drooling here at linuxcaffe, we're hulling ove upgrading our multimedia box and (if we can make it work) that would be perfect ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 13 22:18:12 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:18:12 -0400 Subject: free non-functional HTPC In-Reply-To: <4AAD6F55.4000607-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAD6F55.4000607@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4AAD6FA4.5060003@linuxcaffe.ca> David J Patrick wrote: > we're hulling ove upgrading our multimedia box mulling, really -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 13 23:57:05 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:57:05 -0400 Subject: *Ohio* Linux Fest Message-ID: important news for Ohio LinuxFest. server: irc.oftc.net channel: #ohiolinux just 5 minutes of your time makes the world of difference. Even if you can't come to OLF stop by irc tonight & make a difference. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 13:48:51 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 09:48:51 -0400 Subject: [mythtv-gta]: free non-functional HTPC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090914134851.GT23700@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 06:02:17PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I got an interesting Home Theatre PC from freecycle a while ago. > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008689&cid=527.546 > (Not precisely correct) Looking at the specs and the way the ports are arranged on the back, I am 99% sure the tuner is a PVR-500. It looks exactly like mine. > http://www.higrade.com/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=3254 > > - I've never gotten it to work but I didn't try very hard. I just don't > have time. > > - the previous owner didn't get it to work. I don't know how hard they > tried. > > - I'm including a CPU that I got for it from craigslist. I am only > assuming that the CPU works. 3GHz P4 LGA775 > > - the CPU is a P4, not my favourite choice for a HTPC No kidding. That's some serious heat to put in a small case like that. > - it includes a bunch of nice things: nice case, dual TV tuner, nVidia > GeForce 6600 video card, notebook DVD burner, lots of cables. > > - it is missing RAM and HD. > > - the cards are on a riser, with one common backplate so it is awkward to > remove them and use them in another machine > > - I've taken out the miniPCI wireless card. > > I would love to hand this on to someone who intends to try to get this > working. > > If nobody wants it as a whole, I'll consider giving away parts. > > I expect to wait about 24 hours for "bids". No, I don't mean money -- > this is free. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 13:54:09 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 09:54:09 -0400 Subject: Suspend / Hibernation under Debian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090914135409.GM23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 03:16:32PM +0000, Antonio T. Sun wrote: > The Suspend / Hibernation feature works out of box in Unbunto on my Acer > Aspire (AS5536), but I want my Debian (debootstrap based) works the same > as well. How should I do that? I meant, there seems so many packages/ > tools able to do that, which are the recommended ones? Worked out of the box on my debian sid install. Might not work on lenny, but looks like squeeze will be in good state when released. > I've done some extensive search but this is the only Debian-based writing > that I found, which makes use of s2ram: > > Put your Debian Lenny laptop to Sleep > http://www.debiantutorials.org/put-lenny-to-sleep-debian-gnulinux- > lenny-308 > > Please help me to the correct direction. > Anyone know a good web page that covers setting up suspend / hibernation > under Debian? > > PS. > > my Debian is debootstrap based, ie, only the packages that I hand picked > are installed. I'd like to know the recommend package combinations > that provide the function, and better not desktop specific, because I > normally don't use any desktops but a simple window manager (fluxbox). Well I know both gnome-power-manager and whatever kde uses both do the right thing and make the right call. I haven't looked into what exactly it is they call to make the system suspend or hibernate. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 13:55:20 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 09:55:20 -0400 Subject: Touchpad middle-click In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090914135520.GN23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 03:18:21PM +0000, Antonio T. Sun wrote: > On my Acer Aspire (AS5536), there is no way to simulate a middle-click by > pressing both the right and left mouse key. But I badly need this middle- > click to paste in the x-selections. > > I searched like crazy and found a posting which says, "In my debian I > have set Fn+ctrl as middle click and Fn+alt as right click" > http://linux.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/ > comp.os.linux.powerpc/2005-08/0035.html > > This is really a neat solution. It doesn't need any extra packages/ > layers, but I can't get it works. Is it a mac specific tweak? Else, > anyone knows how exactly he did it? Does your X config have the '3button emulation' enabled? I have only ever used 3 button mice (and my SL500 has 3 buttons) so I have never looked at it much. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 14:47:12 2009 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:47:12 -0400 Subject: Touchpad middle-click In-Reply-To: <20090914135520.GN23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090914135520.GN23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1252939632.12910.1334734731@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 09:55 -0400, "Lennart Sorensen" wrote: > On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 03:18:21PM +0000, Antonio T. Sun wrote: > > On my Acer Aspire (AS5536), there is no way to simulate a middle-click by > > pressing both the right and left mouse key. But I badly need this middle- > > click to paste in the x-selections. > > > > I searched like crazy and found a posting which says, "In my debian I > > have set Fn+ctrl as middle click and Fn+alt as right click" > > http://linux.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/ > > comp.os.linux.powerpc/2005-08/0035.html > > > > This is really a neat solution. It doesn't need any extra packages/ > > layers, but I can't get it works. Is it a mac specific tweak? Else, > > anyone knows how exactly he did it? > > Does your X config have the '3button emulation' enabled? > > I have only ever used 3 button mice (and my SL500 has 3 buttons) so I > have never looked at it much. Enabling 3-button emulation wouldn't work in his case, since the Aspire is one of those newer laptops that has a single mouse button bar. This bar is like a rocker switch: you can press the left end for a left click, or the right end for a right click, but you can't physically press both ends down at the same time due to the rocker design. This design is increasingly common these days, probably thanks to the aesthetic influence of Apple's laptops. My LG laptop (P300) has the same design, so I'd also be interested in a solution to this problem. Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 16:04:35 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:04:35 -0400 Subject: Touchpad middle-click In-Reply-To: <1252939632.12910.1334734731-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20090914135520.GN23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1252939632.12910.1334734731@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20090914160435.GO23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:47:12AM -0400, Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > Enabling 3-button emulation wouldn't work in his case, since the Aspire is one of those newer laptops that has a single mouse button bar. This bar is like a rocker switch: you can press the left end for a left click, or the right end for a right click, but you can't physically press both ends down at the same time due to the rocker design. This design is increasingly common these days, probably thanks to the aesthetic influence of Apple's laptops. > > My LG laptop (P300) has the same design, so I'd also be interested in a solution to this problem. Well that's amazingly stupid. I have used applications that expected you to use both bottons (or all 3 actually) at the same time. It was very useful to have 7 functions on a 3 button mouse. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 16:06:40 2009 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:06:40 -0400 Subject: free non-functional HTPC In-Reply-To: <4AAD6FA4.5060003-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAD6F55.4000607@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAD6FA4.5060003@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: I've wanted to do a mythtv project for a while now, I'll take it unless someone else had dibs on it. :) JohnM On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 6:18 PM, David J Patrick wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: > > we're hulling ove upgrading our multimedia box > mulling, really > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 16:09:26 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:09:26 -0400 Subject: free non-functional HTPC In-Reply-To: References: <4AAD6F55.4000607@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAD6FA4.5060003@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4AAE6AB6.5010909@linuxcaffe.ca> John Miles wrote: > I've wanted to do a mythtv project for a while now, I'll take it unless > someone else had dibs on it. I kind of thought the "drooling" over it" was expressing interest, but perhaps that was interpreted as.. y'know..just drooling. djp > > :) > > JohnM > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 6:18 PM, David J Patrick wrote: > >> David J Patrick wrote: >>> we're hulling ove upgrading our multimedia box >> mulling, really >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 16:12:35 2009 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:12:35 -0400 Subject: free non-functional HTPC In-Reply-To: <4AAE6AB6.5010909-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAD6F55.4000607@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAD6FA4.5060003@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAE6AB6.5010909@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: Drooling on it would definitely constitute ownership. :) Sounds like it is going to a good home! JohnM On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:09 PM, David J Patrick wrote: > John Miles wrote: > >> I've wanted to do a mythtv project for a while now, I'll take it unless >> someone else had dibs on it. >> > I kind of thought the "drooling" over it" was expressing interest, but > perhaps that was interpreted as.. y'know..just drooling. > djp > > >> :) >> >> JohnM >> >> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 6:18 PM, David J Patrick >> wrote: >> >> David J Patrick wrote: >>> >>>> we're hulling ove upgrading our multimedia box >>>> >>> mulling, really >>> >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >>> >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 16:15:39 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:15:39 -0400 Subject: free non-functional HTPC In-Reply-To: References: <4AAD6F55.4000607@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAD6FA4.5060003@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAE6AB6.5010909@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4AAE6C2B.5020103@linuxcaffe.ca> John Miles wrote: > Drooling on it would definitely constitute ownership. no, no, OVER it! why is this drooling thing so complicated ? ;-) > :) > Sounds like it is going to a good home! I'll count no chickens, and am not in real "need", but the jukebox at the caffe is, at the moment, lame. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 16:45:31 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:45:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: techknowmag.com Message-ID: I just found this, the 2nd number ? It presents Puppy Linux and DSL among others (as alternatives for older computers). This is a 'free' as in free beer commercial outfit, right ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 17:48:10 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:48:10 -0400 Subject: techknowmag.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AAE81DA.4070500@linuxcaffe.ca> Peter wrote: > I just found this, the 2nd number ? It presents Puppy Linux and DSL among others > (as alternatives for older computers). This is a 'free' as in free beer > commercial outfit, right ? what on earth are you talking about ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 17:49:58 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:49:58 -0400 Subject: techknowmag.com In-Reply-To: <4AAE81DA.4070500-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAE81DA.4070500@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4AAE8246.809@linuxcaffe.ca> David J Patrick wrote: > what on earth are you talking about ? let's just pretend I can read a subject line, and carry on, shall we ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 18:00:01 2009 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:00:01 -0500 Subject: free non-functional HTPC In-Reply-To: <4AAE6C2B.5020103-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAD6F55.4000607@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAD6FA4.5060003@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAE6AB6.5010909@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAE6C2B.5020103@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: Q: How can you tell when a (Windows?) sysadmin is sitting upright? A: The drool comes equally out of both sides of his/her mouth! On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 11:15 AM, David J Patrick wrote: > John Miles wrote: > >> Drooling on it would definitely constitute ownership. >> > no, no, OVER it! > why is this drooling thing so complicated ? > ;-) > >> :) >> Sounds like it is going to a good home! >> > I'll count no chickens, and am not in real "need", but the jukebox at the > caffe is, at the moment, lame. > djp > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 18:33:11 2009 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: techknowmag.com (and older computers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, Peter wrote: > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:45:31 +0000 (UTC) > From: Peter > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: re: techknowmag.com > > I just found this, the 2nd number ? It presents Puppy Linux and DSL among others > (as alternatives for older computers). This is a 'free' as in free beer > commercial outfit, right ? Can someone clarify for me: what is an "older computer"? Which new distributions should not be installed on which hardware? No need to mention extremes, but what are the cut-off specification ranges in terms of non-obvious attributes? For example, Fedora 11 has these requirements: * Recommended for text-mode: 200 MHz Pentium-class or better * Recommended for graphical: 400 MHz Pentium II or better * Minimum RAM for text-mode: 128MiB * Minimum RAM for graphical: 192MiB * Recommended RAM for graphical: 256MiB That threshold goes back to computers before 2000, but there is *no* mention of *age*. I don't think adequate testing has been done on "older computers", especially for Fedora. -- Eric B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 18:39:55 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:39:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hacker's Delight by Henry S. Warren Message-ID: This is a book for programmers who want to learn to write very efficient snippets of code. It is in the spirit of (part of) hackmem, the famous MIT tech report. http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/hakmem/hakmem.html http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~am21/hakmemc.html I have not read "Hacker's Delight" nor bought it but it was recommended to me by an even more ancient programmer. We old programmers grew up using assembly language and these old bit-fiddling tricks still intrigue us. There is a web page for the book and it lets you read chapter 1 for free. http://www.hackersdelight.org/ It introduces such tricks as: In C, how do you test if the integer x is a power of two? if ((x & x-1) == 0) ... Note: this assumes that the arithmetic is done in two's complement. I don't actually know any current C implementations that violate this, but it is possible for a conforming implementaion to use one's complement. Many of these tricks are surprising. As Guy Steele says in the intro to the book, one can consume them like bonbons. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 18:49:52 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: techknowmag.com (and older computers) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Eric Battersby | Can someone clarify for me: what is an "older computer"? Probably not. It is a generalization. The actual attributes that matter are not determined by a clock. | Which new distributions should not be installed on which hardware? | No need to mention extremes, but what are the cut-off specification | ranges in terms of non-obvious attributes? What non-obvious attributes do you think matter? The x86 architecture underwent modest changes at each step from 386 to 486 to Pentium to Pentium Pro to Pentium II to Pentium 3 to Pentium 4. Some distros (and I had thought F11 was one) may require PII instructions (aka 686). I have a machine that boots Fedora Core 2 (I think) and in the process the kernel whines that the BIOS is old enough that it doesn't trust the ACPI. Old machines have ISA and all that means (no sharing of IRQs, autodiscovery of devices is hard). | That threshold goes back to computers before 2000, but there | is *no* mention of *age*. | I don't think adequate testing has been done on | "older computers", especially for Fedora. Why would age itself matter? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 19:41:50 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [mythtv-gta]: free non-functional HTPC In-Reply-To: <20090914134851.GT23700-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090914134851.GT23700@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 06:02:17PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > I got an interesting Home Theatre PC from freecycle a while ago. | > | > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008689&cid=527.546 | > (Not precisely correct) | | Looking at the specs and the way the ports are arranged on the back, | I am 99% sure the tuner is a PVR-500. It looks exactly like mine. It is actually an AverMedia A169D. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 21:17:54 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:17:54 -0400 Subject: [mythtv-gta]: free non-functional HTPC In-Reply-To: References: <20090914134851.GT23700@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090914211754.GP23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 03:41:50PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 06:02:17PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | > I got an interesting Home Theatre PC from freecycle a while ago. > | > > | > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=008689&cid=527.546 > | > (Not precisely correct) > | > | Looking at the specs and the way the ports are arranged on the back, > | I am 99% sure the tuner is a PVR-500. It looks exactly like mine. > > It is actually an AverMedia A169D. Awww. It loked like the exact same port layout. I guess saa7134 driver might run it. Maybe. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 14 22:40:21 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:40:21 -0400 Subject: Hacker's Delight by Henry S. Warren In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7ac602420909141540u305aaeb6j873fcaed86e835bf@mail.gmail.com> I own a copy of Hacker's Delight. It's awesome. These days it's mostly trivia, but it's fun to exercise your mind by reading it. One topic I found interesting was alternate bases for numbering. Everyone here is used to decimal (base 10), nearly everyone should be familiar with binary (base 2), octal (base 8), and hexadecimal (base 16). Hacker's Delight introduces base -1, and base i or 2i (I forget which). Not sure imaginary bases are useful for much, but neat anyway. Another interesting topic is a function for mapping standard Cartesian co-ordinates to the Dragon Curve and back again. Apparently, if you're in the business of writing ray tracers, tracing pixels along the Dragon Curve is more memory-efficient than just scanning across the screen because you get better locality of reference, which leads to better use of the various levels of cache. As for something useful, there are a few examples of branchless algorithms for computing various useful functions. Usually the obivous algorithm involves a branch so the branchless versions are fun to play with. I was inspired by the thinking and was able to build a "double-ended array" data structure that can efficiently grow in length in both directions without any branches in the indexer. I haven't benchmarked it yet so I don't know if there's a performance benefit to outweigh the obfuscation, but it was a lot of fun to discover the technique. Anyway, I found the book easily worth what I paid. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 00:01:19 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: free non-functional HTPC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | I got an interesting Home Theatre PC from freecycle a while ago. | I would love to hand this on to someone who intends to try to get this | working. A lot of interest for this! Thanks for the interest. I've handed it on now. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 12:37:54 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:37:54 -0400 Subject: OpenSolaris vs Linux Message-ID: <7c50d3570909150537y291bd844oc64fa4a4cc8ba943@mail.gmail.com> Found this article linked to on Slashdot, here is a brief excerpt, the URL to the article will follow: So you've been playing around with alternative OSes for a while and you reckon you've got this Linux thing mastered. Maybe you're tried Mac OS X and found it a bit too restrictive (or expensive); perhaps you've kicked the Hurd's tyres and thought you'll come back to it when it's something more than just a clever name. If you're looking for something else to play with, we humbly suggest OpenSolaris. Like Mac OS X, which we looked at recently, OpenSolaris is based on Unix; also like OS X, it's best known for running on a specific processor (in this case Sun's SPARC architecture) but now works on a range of architectures including x86. Unlike OS X though, OpenSolaris is open source, so you can download it for free and start fiddling with it. We're not interested in a direct, head-to-head comparison, because for many people it's largely a matter of taste which one they choose. But we do want to help people see what makes OpenSolaris a little different from Linux, so read on for our quick-start guide for Linux users wanting to dip their toe into OpenSolaris and see which they prefer... The source code to Solaris (well, most of it) was released to the community in June 2005, and to make sure that it became a usable home system rather than just a server OS, Sun hired Ian Murdock, founder of the Debian project, to produce OpenSolaris. The first release appeared in May 2008 and the distribution adopted an approximately half-yearly release cycle: after OpenSolaris 2008.05 we got versions 2008.11 and 2009.06. Sun advertises its operating system as a full-blown distribution, including the Gnome desktop. But is OpenSolaris interesting enough for a Linux user? If you're happy with your favourite Linux distribution, why would you try OpenSolaris? In some aspects it's much like a regular Linux distribution, but in other aspects it's completely different. Do the exciting features of this operating system outweigh the trouble of learning another Unix environment with other tools? http://www.tuxradar.com/content/opensolaris-vs-linux -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 13:05:51 2009 From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (tug) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:05:51 -0400 Subject: OpenSolaris vs Linux In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570909150537y291bd844oc64fa4a4cc8ba943-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909150537y291bd844oc64fa4a4cc8ba943@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AAF912F.3040308@gmail.com> I tried the live cd a while back on my Inspiron 4000 (700Mhz, 192Mb).... you need a more powerful machine, it took forever to boot (at least 10 minutes I seem to recall). My reason was that at work the server side is Solaris, so I figured it could be a useful experience... I will give it another go, when I free up a more powerful machine. Michael Lauzon wrote: > Found this article linked to on Slashdot, here is a brief excerpt, the > URL to the article will follow: > > So you've been playing around with alternative OSes for a while and > you reckon you've got this Linux thing mastered. Maybe you're tried > Mac OS X and found it a bit too restrictive (or expensive); perhaps > you've kicked the Hurd's tyres and thought you'll come back to it when > it's something more than just a clever name. > > If you're looking for something else to play with, we humbly suggest > OpenSolaris. Like Mac OS X, which we looked at recently, OpenSolaris > is based on Unix; also like OS X, it's best known for running on a > specific processor (in this case Sun's SPARC architecture) but now > works on a range of architectures including x86. Unlike OS X though, > OpenSolaris is open source, so you can download it for free and start > fiddling with it. > > We're not interested in a direct, head-to-head comparison, because for > many people it's largely a matter of taste which one they choose. But > we do want to help people see what makes OpenSolaris a little > different from Linux, so read on for our quick-start guide for Linux > users wanting to dip their toe into OpenSolaris and see which they > prefer... > > The source code to Solaris (well, most of it) was released to the > community in June 2005, and to make sure that it became a usable home > system rather than just a server OS, Sun hired Ian Murdock, founder of > the Debian project, to produce OpenSolaris. The first release appeared > in May 2008 and the distribution adopted an approximately half-yearly > release cycle: after OpenSolaris 2008.05 we got versions 2008.11 and > 2009.06. > > Sun advertises its operating system as a full-blown distribution, > including the Gnome desktop. But is OpenSolaris interesting enough for > a Linux user? If you're happy with your favourite Linux distribution, > why would you try OpenSolaris? In some aspects it's much like a > regular Linux distribution, but in other aspects it's completely > different. Do the exciting features of this operating system outweigh > the trouble of learning another Unix environment with other tools? > > http://www.tuxradar.com/content/opensolaris-vs-linux > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 13:09:06 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:09:06 -0400 Subject: Haiku releases alpha 1 Message-ID: <1f13df280909150609m92c7f26w234203c6d8564332@mail.gmail.com> Somewhat OT. I'm sure that many of you read Slashdot and have seen this story. Nevertheless: Haiku, the Be-alike OS, has released (finally, after eight years) an alpha version. Slashdot story: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/09/14/030230/After-8-Years-of-Work-Be-Alike-Haiku-Releases-Official-Alpha?art_pos=23 OS News review: http://www.osnews.com/story/22156/In_the_Round_Haiku_Alpha_Released Haiku release page: http://www.haiku-os.org/news/2009-09-13_haiku_project_announces_availability_haiku_r1alpha_1 -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 14:25:41 2009 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:25:41 -0400 Subject: OpenSolaris vs Linux In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570909150537y291bd844oc64fa4a4cc8ba943-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909150537y291bd844oc64fa4a4cc8ba943@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I downloaded openSolaris and installed it on a spare 2GHz Pentium I had about 18 months ago. I installed two mirrored 300G drives on separate IDE controllers (old school, I know) and set them up with ZFS; this system is now my NFS server. Setting this system up was really straightforward; like Linux, everything just worked. The bootup time does seem a little longer than my main Linux machine, but since both machines are on 24/7, that's not really a big issue for me. Unfortunately, the secondary IDE channel on this motherboard died a few months ago, so the health of my RAID-1 setup is now DEGRADED, not surprisingly. I'm planning on replacing the hardware, but keeping the drive layout and OS, which has been solid. It's been helpful that I also use Solaris at work, so I'm getting familiar with the differences between it and Linux. If you've got a spare machine, I highly recommend openSolaris. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 14:59:13 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:59:13 -0400 Subject: Haiku releases alpha 1 In-Reply-To: <1f13df280909150609m92c7f26w234203c6d8564332-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280909150609m92c7f26w234203c6d8564332@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:09 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > Somewhat OT. > > I'm sure that many of you read Slashdot and have seen this story. > Nevertheless: Haiku, the Be-alike OS, has released (finally, after > eight years) an alpha version. Encouraging to hear! It's probably worth knowing what, if any, lessons can map back and forth. I suspect that one of the lessons is, "all those that imagine they want to replace X, well, you can do it, if you accept dropping 99% of the apps, and spend 8 years without a graphical environment." (That may overstate things, but I expect only in degree...) I also wonder how much "Linux stuff" will run on Haiku. I gather it has a POSIX-y layer, so presumably anything that "lives in a term" can shift readily. The graphical side is the more interesting question... A third thing I wonder is how good Haiku is for *today's* "multimedia" stuff. It was designed with a view to being very efficient at video and the likes; there has been enough "codec churn" that I wouldn't assume too much about what would and wouldn't work well or efficiently. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach - "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/marie_von_ebnereschenbac.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 14:59:43 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Haiku releases alpha 1 In-Reply-To: <1f13df280909150609m92c7f26w234203c6d8564332-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280909150609m92c7f26w234203c6d8564332@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Giles Orr | Nevertheless: Haiku, the Be-alike OS, has released (finally, after | eight years) an alpha version. Thanks for posting this. Here's why I won't be bothering with Haiku. Some of what I say might be wrong: I don't want to invest the time to become an expert. Please correct any mistakes. I can't imagine wanting to run Be. If I remember correctly, it won't run POSIX programs. So it is starting from scratch as far as applications go. As I understand it, Haiku is binary-compatible with BeOS. After a decade if disuse, those binaries are likely not worth saving. This seems like a horrible constraint. If I were willing to start from scratch, I'd use Plan 9. It has a great design and a community with some really smart folks. Plan 9 is fairly friendly for UNIX folks. Drivers are a real problem for any OS. The PC platform is particularly difficult because there is just so much diversity. Compare that with the Mac PowerPC platform on which Be had its best run. Vista support is a must for any hardware manufacturer, so that is sort of taken care of (but not for hardware that is no-longer sold). Linux and BSD have brute-forced their way. Not easy. Lots of gaps. Good enough for me to adopt but not good enough for me to be satisfied. Plan 9, AmigaOS clones, OS/2, Haiku, etc.: you probably have to select each hardware component carefully to get support. You may even be limited to older components. I don't quite know where OpenSolaris fits on this issue. I used Solaris on my desktop before switching to Linux. I don't know of any reason to switch back so I have not investigated. I think that diversity is a great thing. Too bad that it is so hard to achieve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 15:02:44 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:02:44 -0400 Subject: OpenSolaris vs Linux In-Reply-To: <4AAF912F.3040308-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909150537y291bd844oc64fa4a4cc8ba943@mail.gmail.com> <4AAF912F.3040308@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:05 AM, tug wrote: > I tried the live cd a while back on my Inspiron 4000 (700Mhz, 192Mb).... you > need a more powerful machine, it took forever to boot (at least 10 minutes I > seem to recall). > > My reason was that at work the server side is Solaris, so I figured it could > be a useful experience... I will give it another go, when I free up a more > powerful machine. Laptops have certain "demerits" for running an OS intended to run on servers. Pointedly, Solaris probably hasn't had much work go into optimizing boot performance. It's important for an OS you'd run on a laptop, that's shut down frequently; not nearly so much for servers left up for months at a time! I'd not be inclined to evaluate OpenSolaris based solely on its speed at booting :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Mike Ditka - "If God had wanted man to play soccer, he wouldn't have given us arms." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mike_ditka.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 15:07:32 2009 From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (tug) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:07:32 -0400 Subject: OpenSolaris vs Linux In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570909150537y291bd844oc64fa4a4cc8ba943@mail.gmail.com> <4AAF912F.3040308@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AAFADB4.8010201@gmail.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:05 AM, tug wrote: > >> I tried the live cd a while back on my Inspiron 4000 (700Mhz, 192Mb).... you >> need a more powerful machine, it took forever to boot (at least 10 minutes I >> seem to recall). >> >> My reason was that at work the server side is Solaris, so I figured it could >> be a useful experience... I will give it another go, when I free up a more >> powerful machine. >> > > Laptops have certain "demerits" for running an OS intended to run on servers. > > Pointedly, Solaris probably hasn't had much work go into optimizing > boot performance. It's important for an OS you'd run on a laptop, > that's shut down frequently; not nearly so much for servers left up > for months at a time! > > I'd not be inclined to evaluate OpenSolaris based solely on its speed > at booting :-). > It's not optimised for small memory footprint either... (again not surprising - and not a criticism) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 15:16:20 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:16:20 -0400 Subject: Haiku releases alpha 1 In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280909150609m92c7f26w234203c6d8564332@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 10:59 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Giles Orr > > | Nevertheless: Haiku, the Be-alike OS, has released (finally, after > | eight years) an alpha version. > > Thanks for posting this. > > Here's why I won't be bothering with Haiku. ?Some of what I say might > be wrong: I don't want to invest the time to become an expert. ?Please > correct any mistakes. > > I can't imagine wanting to run Be. ?If I remember correctly, it won't > run POSIX programs. ?So it is starting from scratch as far as > applications go. I don't think that's quite true... They have been "improving POSIX compatibility." There's a certain amount of question of "from what" and "to what," but it's definitely non-zero. > As I understand it, Haiku is binary-compatible with BeOS. ?After a > decade if disuse, those binaries are likely not worth saving. ?This > seems like a horrible constraint. Agreed. > Drivers are a real problem for any OS. ?The PC platform is > particularly difficult because there is just so much diversity. > Compare that with the Mac PowerPC platform on which Be had its best > run. Interesting bit of information: Apparently the Haiku guys have built a "source level FreeBSD network driver compatibility layer," so that they can support any network hardware working on FreeBSD. That doesn't cover video or disk or USB support, but it's not nothing... It looks as though there's enough "similarity" at API levels that they have Firefox running. Not sure what version, but again, "not nothing." There seem to be some of the Gnome apps that run on it. None of this represents disproof of your implication that Haiku is constrained in troublesome ways, of course, just that some of the constraints may pinch slightly less badly than you suggested. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Pablo Picasso - "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 16:01:01 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:01:01 -0400 Subject: Haiku releases alpha 1 In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280909150609m92c7f26w234203c6d8564332@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280909150901hf918f86qbb1e68657700809e@mail.gmail.com> 2009/9/15 D. Hugh Redelmeier : > | From: Giles Orr > > | Nevertheless: Haiku, the Be-alike OS, has released (finally, after > | eight years) an alpha version. > > Thanks for posting this. > > Here's why I won't be bothering with Haiku. I may not get further than booting the live CD (I think there's a live CD!), but I'm very glad Haiku exists. A genuine alternative to Windows that isn't Unix-based is a Very Good Thing(TM) in my opinion. It gives us diversity in the OS world. Before you say it's not a "genuine alternative," here's why I think it is: any project that can work for eight years without giving up has got some very dedicated people behind it. I think their work is likely to A) produce a workable OS, B) produce ideas that will improve other OSes, and C) keep going for quite a while even if there's low adoption. These things are, again, Very Good Things. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 17:29:54 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: free laser printer In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570909131441r449836c0mdde427037a104166-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909131441r449836c0mdde427037a104166@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Michael Lauzon | On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 17:34, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > Would anyone like my Brother HL1435 printer? | > ?http://solutions.brother.com/hl1435/spec.html | I need a printer, but by now it's probably been spoken for. I sent you mail about this yesterday (you are welcome to the printer). Did you get it? From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 18:21:45 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:21:45 -0400 Subject: free laser printer In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570909131441r449836c0mdde427037a104166@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570909151121u2b6cf1beoebd32a4ba288608f@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, didn't see it 'til now, my 'Net access was down, but is working now. How big is the printer, because I don't drive and will have to public transit it? Michael On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 13:29, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Michael Lauzon > > | On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 17:34, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | > Would anyone like my Brother HL1435 printer? > | > ?http://solutions.brother.com/hl1435/spec.html > > | I need a printer, but by now it's probably been spoken for. > > I sent you mail about this yesterday (you are welcome to the printer). > Did you get it? -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 18:56:04 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:56:04 -0400 Subject: Xorg now ignoring input configuration in xorg.conf Message-ID: <20090915185604.GA10914@yam.witteman.ca> After a recent dist-upgrade of my Debian testing system, my EmulateWheel button is no longer acknowledged in X. I filed a bug report, only to be told that it's not a bug, but that evdev is handling all input devices, and that the change in behaviour is not a bug. (I disagree - if you make a change that invalidates a configuration file, it is a bug.) That is fine for what it is worth, but the question now is, how do I configure my Logitech Marble Mouse to use one of its buttons for scroll wheel emulation? The evdev man page is not as helpful as I was hoping. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 21:56:05 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:56:05 -0400 Subject: Xorg now ignoring input configuration in xorg.conf In-Reply-To: <20090915185604.GA10914-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090915185604.GA10914@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280909151456g4e2bc90by32eae77b361e8d08@mail.gmail.com> 2009/9/15 William O'Higgins Witteman : > After a recent dist-upgrade of my Debian testing system, my > EmulateWheel button is no longer acknowledged in X. > > I filed a bug report, only to be told that it's not a bug, but that > evdev is handling all input devices, and that the change in behaviour is > not a bug. ?(I disagree - if you make a change that invalidates a > configuration file, it is a bug.) > > That is fine for what it is worth, but the question now is, how do I > configure my Logitech Marble Mouse to use one of its buttons for scroll > wheel emulation? ?The evdev man page is not as helpful as I was hoping. Wow. If this is the man page you're referring to: http://linux.die.net/man/4/evdev then you have a talent for understatement: that is totally and utterly useless. If anyone can answer this one, I'd be very interested too. Not that I have a Logitech Marble Mouse, but I've had run-ins with evdev before and a quick Google search for documentation is coming up distinctly empty. Hmm: this version of the man page has more information, but is ... challenging: http://man-wiki.net/index.php/4:evdev -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 22:16:05 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:16:05 -0400 Subject: Xorg now ignoring input configuration in xorg.conf In-Reply-To: <1f13df280909151456g4e2bc90by32eae77b361e8d08-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090915185604.GA10914@yam.witteman.ca> <1f13df280909151456g4e2bc90by32eae77b361e8d08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090915221605.GQ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 05:56:05PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > 2009/9/15 William O'Higgins Witteman : > > After a recent dist-upgrade of my Debian testing system, my > > EmulateWheel button is no longer acknowledged in X. > > > > I filed a bug report, only to be told that it's not a bug, but that > > evdev is handling all input devices, and that the change in behaviour is > > not a bug. ?(I disagree - if you make a change that invalidates a > > configuration file, it is a bug.) > > > > That is fine for what it is worth, but the question now is, how do I > > configure my Logitech Marble Mouse to use one of its buttons for scroll > > wheel emulation? ?The evdev man page is not as helpful as I was hoping. > > Wow. If this is the man page you're referring to: > > http://linux.die.net/man/4/evdev > > then you have a talent for understatement: that is totally and utterly useless. > > If anyone can answer this one, I'd be very interested too. Not that I > have a Logitech Marble Mouse, but I've had run-ins with evdev before > and a quick Google search for documentation is coming up distinctly > empty. > > Hmm: this version of the man page has more information, but is ... challenging: > > http://man-wiki.net/index.php/4:evdev Is this helpful? http://mvogt.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/xorg-evdev-and-emulatewheel/ -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 15 22:24:10 2009 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: older computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Eric Battersby > > | Can someone clarify for me: what is an "older computer"? > > Probably not. It is a generalization. The actual attributes that > matter are not determined by a clock. That's the thing: they are not determined by age, but perhaps by "era" because older parts are not the same. > | Which new distributions should not be installed on which hardware? > | No need to mention extremes, but what are the cut-off specification > | ranges in terms of non-obvious attributes? > > What non-obvious attributes do you think matter? > > The x86 architecture underwent modest changes at each step from 386 to > 486 to Pentium to Pentium Pro to Pentium II to Pentium 3 to Pentium 4. > Some distros (and I had thought F11 was one) may require PII > instructions (aka 686). PII is one of the explicit requirements, so that is OK. Non-obvious attributes include those from video cards, monitors, PCMCIA cards, PCI cards, interactions with external peripherals. I don't know what else, because they are not obvious. > I have a machine that boots Fedora Core 2 (I think) and in the process > the kernel whines that the BIOS is old enough that it doesn't trust > the ACPI. > > Old machines have ISA and all that means (no sharing of IRQs, > autodiscovery of devices is hard). ISA might be an example of a non-obvious attribute. I don't remember seeing bus type (ISA, VLB, PCI) mentioned in the list of hardware requirements. > | That threshold goes back to computers before 2000, but there > | is *no* mention of *age*. > | I don't think adequate testing has been done on > | "older computers", especially for Fedora. > > Why would age itself matter? It wouldn't, hence the quotes. Hooking up older computers with newer hardware (eg: USB 2.0 cards, DVD writers), that were not available when the older computers were produced seems to be part of the problem. However, the real problem is *inadequate testing* with these new "bleeding edge" Linux distros. I could literally find 10 bugs in F11 within one hour. Some of those bugs are not even machine dependent. How is that acceptable? I have two normal standard machines, a Dell C640 Laptop (P4, 2GHz, 2GiB), and an older Dell Optiplex GX1. I installed F11 on both of them. Sound did not work on either; I got hundreds of 'pulseaudio' messages in '/var/log/messages'. When I did get sound working on the Dell C640 (by using 'alsamixer -c0'), it took up about 20% of CPU and died within a few minutes many more log messages. How difficult is it for developers to do an install and try the most basic of features? (Since then, I have removed pulseaudio, and sound works great.) It would be good to have everything tested up front, right after installation, so the user will know if he can use this distro, rather than find out 2 months later that something is fundamentally flawed. Is there such a suite of regression tests that Linux can run that will test "everything" (like video tests, sound tests, USB tests), etc? The latest disaster is the I cannot create a DVD in F11 with an external Plextor DVDR PX-716A writer. It hangs after writing about 7 MBs. I installed the same model writer in the Dell GX1 directly on the EIDE cable. A similar problem happens. It hangs after writing about 7 MBs, plus a kernel process 'scsi_eh_1' is running at 23% CPU and I cannot kill it. The external Plextor drive worked fine in F7 on the Dell C640. I'd like to switch distros, but now F11 has me locked in :-(. -- Eric B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 16 02:48:02 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: free laser printer In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570909151121u2b6cf1beoebd32a4ba288608f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909131441r449836c0mdde427037a104166@mail.gmail.com> <7c50d3570909151121u2b6cf1beoebd32a4ba288608f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Michael Lauzon | Sorry, didn't see it 'til now, my 'Net access was down, but is working now. You still don't seem to respond to my private messages. Neither by email nor phone. I don't want to be too anxious, but there is a deadline for making definite arrangements. I'm making a trip to "Environment Day" on Thursday to dispose of unwanted electronic devices. Unless we've made an arrangement, the laser printer will go. http://www.toronto.ca/environment_days/index.htm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 16 11:25:33 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 07:25:33 -0400 Subject: free laser printer Message-ID: -----Original message----- From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier" hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:48:02 -0400 To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: free laser printer > | From: Michael Lauzon > > | Sorry, didn't see it 'til now, my 'Net access was down, but is working now. > > You still don't seem to respond to my private messages. Neither by email > nor phone. > > I don't want to be too anxious, but there is a deadline for making > definite arrangements. I'm making a trip to "Environment Day" on > Thursday to dispose of unwanted electronic devices. Unless we've made > an arrangement, the laser printer will go. > > http://www.toronto.ca/environment_days/index.htm > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Hugh I was pleasantly surprised to learn that electronic equipment is now collected at curbside and recycled. This includes printers and computers. This information is above the August 2009 page of the collection calendar. It states "Any unwanted electronics can be set out separately at the curb... on your scheduled Garbage Bin collection day." I have been unable to locate the information on the website but have disposed of a couple of small electronic items. Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 16 11:45:09 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 07:45:09 -0400 Subject: free laser printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB0CFC5.9070006@rogers.com> meng wrote: > -----Original message----- > From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier" hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:48:02 -0400 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: free laser printer > > >> | From: Michael Lauzon >> >> | Sorry, didn't see it 'til now, my 'Net access was down, but is working now. >> >> You still don't seem to respond to my private messages. Neither by email >> nor phone. >> >> I don't want to be too anxious, but there is a deadline for making >> definite arrangements. I'm making a trip to "Environment Day" on >> Thursday to dispose of unwanted electronic devices. Unless we've made >> an arrangement, the laser printer will go. >> >> http://www.toronto.ca/environment_days/index.htm >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > Hugh > > I was pleasantly surprised to learn that electronic equipment is now collected at curbside and recycled. > This includes printers and computers. > > This information is above the August 2009 page of the collection calendar. > It states "Any unwanted electronics can be set out separately at the curb... on your scheduled Garbage Bin collection day." > > I have been unable to locate the information on the website but have disposed of a couple of small electronic items. > > In Mississauga, you can take electronic equipment to recycling centers. Goodwill has drop off locations there, where they take functioning equipment. If it's non functioning, it can be dropped off for recycling for a small fee. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 16 15:02:44 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: nice article on US wiretapping landscape Message-ID: Communications Surveillance: Privacy and Security at Risk by Whitfield Diffie, Susan Landau | September 11, 2009 http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1613130 I'd love a similar one about Canada, especially since the new "modernization" that the government has brought in (or is it still pending?). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 16 17:30:28 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:30:28 -0400 Subject: nice article on US wiretapping landscape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0909161030v77b2400fi31a11f0a655cd060@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:02 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Communications Surveillance: ?Privacy and Security at Risk > by Whitfield Diffie, Susan Landau ?| ?September 11, 2009 > http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1613130 > > I'd love a similar one about Canada, especially since the new > "modernization" that the government has brought in (or is it still > pending?). As far as whether the modernization is still pending, here's the latest that I know about: Resolution of Canada?s Privacy Commissioners and Privacy Enforcement Officials on Bills C-46 and C-47 September 9-10, 2009, St. John?s, Newfoundland and Labrador http://www.priv.gc.ca/media/nr-c/2009/res_090910_e.cfm -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 16 18:27:14 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:27:14 -0700 Subject: Blackberry, calendars, and servers that support sharing/syncing Message-ID: <3a97ef0909161127u3fd1a92ehb9166830a98721b4@mail.gmail.com> Where I'm working we currently have a BES server which is tied to a Netware box for our blackberry calendaring etc. I'm not sure if anyone else is familiar with SUSE-Netware, but the thing is pretty much a nightmare. In general, it appears to be windows/novell intended software that was poorly ported to Linux, which tends to require the GUI (consoleone) to admin and doesn't make proper use of the Linux facilities for logging, management, or other functionality. Least to say, I'd love to get rid of that box. Email should be easy enough to port off, but the calendar syncing - especially in regards to blackberries - seems to be a bigger issue. From what I've been told, the only real solutions for shared calendars with blackberries is either groupwise or exchange. Does *anyone* have any experience with alternatives? At this point I'd almost rather go with Exchange than Netware due to it having more usage/documentation/support. A quick look in google mentions this product: https://www.forge.funambol.org/download/ I don't know how well it works, but I was wondering if anyone has seen it in action (or tried it), or can suggest other alternatives to netware/exchange. Thanks, TJA -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 16 18:57:42 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:57:42 -0400 Subject: OT: DVD writer issue Message-ID: <52525002b1845c7ac1b71b5b61e09afa@teksavvy.com> Hi Has anyone experienced anything similar? I have a DVD writer that seems to have stopped burning cds or dvds which are bootable, whether they are linux-based or windows-based. However, data and video cds and dvds are burned successfully. I've tried different media as well as different software, both linux and windows. Thought I'd ask before buying a new writer, any recommendations? :-) Thanks Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 16 19:00:21 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:00:21 -0700 Subject: older computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26FDA896-37B5-4121-A56E-86D2262CE602@gmail.com> On 15-Sep-09, at 3:24 PM, Eric Battersby wrote: > On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> | From: Eric Battersby >> >> | Can someone clarify for me: what is an "older computer"? >> >> Probably not. It is a generalization. The actual attributes that >> matter are not determined by a clock. > > That's the thing: they are not determined by age, but perhaps > by "era" because older parts are not the same. > >> | Which new distributions should not be installed on which hardware? >> | No need to mention extremes, but what are the cut-off specification >> | ranges in terms of non-obvious attributes? >> >> What non-obvious attributes do you think matter? >> >> The x86 architecture underwent modest changes at each step from 386 >> to >> 486 to Pentium to Pentium Pro to Pentium II to Pentium 3 to Pentium >> 4. >> Some distros (and I had thought F11 was one) may require PII >> instructions (aka 686). > > PII is one of the explicit requirements, so that is OK. > Non-obvious attributes include those from video cards, monitors, > PCMCIA cards, PCI cards, interactions with external peripherals. > I don't know what else, because they are not obvious. > >> I have a machine that boots Fedora Core 2 (I think) and in the >> process >> the kernel whines that the BIOS is old enough that it doesn't trust >> the ACPI. >> >> Old machines have ISA and all that means (no sharing of IRQs, >> autodiscovery of devices is hard). > > ISA might be an example of a non-obvious attribute. > I don't remember seeing bus type (ISA, VLB, PCI) > mentioned in the list of hardware requirements. > > >> | That threshold goes back to computers before 2000, but there >> | is *no* mention of *age*. >> | I don't think adequate testing has been done on >> | "older computers", especially for Fedora. >> >> Why would age itself matter? > > It wouldn't, hence the quotes. > Hooking up older computers with newer hardware (eg: USB 2.0 cards, > DVD writers), that were not available when the older computers > were produced seems to be part of the problem. > However, the real problem is *inadequate testing* > with these new "bleeding edge" Linux distros. > I could literally find 10 bugs in F11 within one hour. > Some of those bugs are not even machine dependent. > How is that acceptable? > > I have two normal standard machines, > a Dell C640 Laptop (P4, 2GHz, 2GiB), and an older Dell Optiplex GX1. > I installed F11 on both of them. > Sound did not work on either; I got hundreds of 'pulseaudio' > messages in '/var/log/messages'. When I did get sound working > on the Dell C640 (by using 'alsamixer -c0'), it took up about > 20% of CPU and died within a few minutes many more log messages. > How difficult is it for developers to do an install and > try the most basic of features? > (Since then, I have removed pulseaudio, and sound works > great.) > > It would be good to have everything tested up front, right > after installation, so the user will know if he can use this > distro, rather than find out 2 months later that something is > fundamentally flawed. > > Is there such a suite of regression tests that Linux can run > that will test "everything" (like video tests, sound tests, USB > tests), etc? > > The latest disaster is the I cannot create a DVD in F11 > with an external Plextor DVDR PX-716A writer. > It hangs after writing about 7 MBs. > I installed the same model writer in the Dell GX1 directly > on the EIDE cable. A similar problem happens. > It hangs after writing about 7 MBs, plus a kernel process > 'scsi_eh_1' is running at 23% CPU and I cannot kill it. > The external Plextor drive worked fine in F7 on the Dell C640. > > I'd like to switch distros, but now F11 has me locked in :-(. > > -- > Eric B. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Sounds like the plextor issue may be kernel/driver related rather than the OS itself. Have you tried rolling an older/newer kernel similar to what worked previously (or testing a newer kernel on a box where it works)? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 16 19:43:07 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:43:07 -0400 Subject: nice article on US wiretapping landscape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB13FCB.8030709@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Communications Surveillance: Privacy and Security at Risk > by Whitfield Diffie, Susan Landau | September 11, 2009 > http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1613130 > > I'd love a similar one about Canada, especially since the new > "modernization" that the government has brought in (or is it still > pending?). > I guess it's time to start looking for encrypted phones. It shouldn't be too difficult with VoIP & public key encryption. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 16 22:17:23 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:17:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: somefirm.com References: <4AAE81DA.4070500@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAE8246.809@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: David J Patrick writes: > let's just pretend I can read a subject line, and carry on, shall we ? I tend not to answer political diatribes, because I am not into politics. Let me rephrase that: when I was elected for various functions I refused the offices at some risk and I consider politics incompatible with thechnology and IT. Therefore honni soit qui mal y pense, for example in case someone is political enough to believe that a legitimate on topic question wrt. a magazine may be viral advertising or such, aimed to sell a free subway paper to a freebie oriented low volume news group. I will not answer further messages related to the subject, literally or otherwise. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 17 02:22:56 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:22:56 -0400 Subject: Xorg now ignoring input configuration in xorg.conf In-Reply-To: <20090915221605.GQ23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090915185604.GA10914@yam.witteman.ca> <1f13df280909151456g4e2bc90by32eae77b361e8d08@mail.gmail.com> <20090915221605.GQ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090917022256.GA31942@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 06:16:05PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 05:56:05PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >> 2009/9/15 William O'Higgins Witteman : >> > After a recent dist-upgrade of my Debian testing system, my >> > EmulateWheel button is no longer acknowledged in X. >> > >> > I filed a bug report, only to be told that it's not a bug, but that >> > evdev is handling all input devices, and that the change in behaviour is >> > not a bug. ?(I disagree - if you make a change that invalidates a >> > configuration file, it is a bug.) >> > >> > That is fine for what it is worth, but the question now is, how do I >> > configure my Logitech Marble Mouse to use one of its buttons for scroll >> > wheel emulation? ?The evdev man page is not as helpful as I was hoping. >> >> Wow. If this is the man page you're referring to: >> >> http://linux.die.net/man/4/evdev Yeah, it sort of sucks, doesn't it? >Is this helpful? > >http://mvogt.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/xorg-evdev-and-emulatewheel/ This is indeed helpful. Here is my /etc/hal//policy/marble_mouse.fdi true 8 4 5 I got the info.product part by looking at /dev/input/by-id/, and guessing. I logged out, and restarted hal for good measure. One or the other may not be necessary. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 17 03:29:31 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:29:31 -0400 Subject: somefirm.com In-Reply-To: References: <4AAE81DA.4070500@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAE8246.809@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <20090916232931.7f06b440@teksavvy.com> Peter wrote: > David J Patrick writes: > > let's just pretend I can read a subject line, and carry on, shall we ? > > I tend not to answer political diatribes, because I am not into politics. Let > me rephrase that: when I was elected for various functions I refused the > offices at some risk and I consider politics incompatible with thechnology > and IT. Therefore honni soit qui mal y pense, for example in case someone is > political enough to believe that a legitimate on topic question wrt. a > magazine may be viral advertising or such, aimed to sell a free subway paper > to a freebie oriented low volume news group. I will not answer further > messages related to the subject, literally or otherwise. What? I must have missed something... -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 17 13:08:24 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:08:24 -0400 Subject: Cubecraft Tux Message-ID: <1f13df280909170608m7d566e7bn82445bd2d170c861@mail.gmail.com> For those who want their own Tux mascot but haven't got around to getting one yet ... print and fold your own: http://www.cubeecraft.com/cubee/tux -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 17 13:08:42 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:08:42 -0400 Subject: somefirm.com In-Reply-To: <20090916232931.7f06b440-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AAE81DA.4070500@linuxcaffe.ca> <4AAE8246.809@linuxcaffe.ca> <20090916232931.7f06b440@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <4AB234DA.9000605@utoronto.ca> JoeHill wrote: > Peter wrote: > >> David J Patrick writes: >>> let's just pretend I can read a subject line, and carry on, shall we ? >> I tend not to answer political diatribes, because I am not into politics. Let >> me rephrase that: when I was elected for various functions I refused the >> offices at some risk and I consider politics incompatible with thechnology >> and IT. Therefore honni soit qui mal y pense, for example in case someone is >> political enough to believe that a legitimate on topic question wrt. a >> magazine may be viral advertising or such, aimed to sell a free subway paper >> to a freebie oriented low volume news group. I will not answer further >> messages related to the subject, literally or otherwise. > > What? I must have missed something... ditto. I wasn't going to say anything for fear of another apolitical diatribe.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 17 19:40:06 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:40:06 -0400 Subject: cheap online rsync backups for photos Message-ID: <32f6a8880909171240h386397b0oa2af3bcdaa48b7c0@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, I use Linux at home for my file server, and it has all my photos. I've been backing them up manually with 2 hard drives, but I would like to expand that and have an Online Backup my photos. Does any of you guys recommend a provider that uses Rsync to sync files directly? Also price wise I'm looking for a cheap or competative rate..I won't need more than 60 gigs (for now at least) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 17 20:52:07 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:52:07 -0400 Subject: cheap online rsync backups for photos In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880909171240h386397b0oa2af3bcdaa48b7c0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880909171240h386397b0oa2af3bcdaa48b7c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880909171352w3383aa71j54e0a039c63dc5c1@mail.gmail.com> I see there's a provider called DropBox is this the best alternative or are there other providers that are cheaper? Currently DropBox is 9.99 a month for 50 GB. On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I use Linux at home for my file server, and it has all my photos. I've > been backing them up manually with 2 hard drives, but I would like to > expand that and have an Online Backup my photos. Does any of you guys > recommend a provider that uses Rsync to sync files directly? Also > price wise I'm looking for a cheap or competative rate..I won't need > more than 60 gigs (for now at least) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 17 21:17:37 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:17:37 -0400 Subject: cheap online rsync backups for photos In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880909171352w3383aa71j54e0a039c63dc5c1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880909171240h386397b0oa2af3bcdaa48b7c0@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880909171352w3383aa71j54e0a039c63dc5c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB2A771.8020203@alteeve.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > I see there's a provider called DropBox is this the best alternative > or are there other providers that are cheaper? > > Currently DropBox is 9.99 a month for 50 GB. Taken a look at Amazon? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 17 22:55:37 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:55:37 -0400 Subject: cheap online rsync backups for photos In-Reply-To: <4AB2A771.8020203-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880909171240h386397b0oa2af3bcdaa48b7c0@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880909171352w3383aa71j54e0a039c63dc5c1@mail.gmail.com> <4AB2A771.8020203@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880909171555o1a8992d3pf4ad785be0532205@mail.gmail.com> Its a bit more expensive, I think its around 25 bucks for 50 gigs and 60 gig in/out On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Dave Germiquet wrote: >> >> I see there's a provider called DropBox is this the best alternative >> or are there other providers that are cheaper? >> >> Currently DropBox is 9.99 a month for 50 GB. > > Taken a look at Amazon? > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 03:25:23 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:25:23 -0400 Subject: site uptime monitoring tool Message-ID: <4AB2FDA3.1060405@gmail.com> Anyone know of a good free or inexpensive site uptime monitoring site? I guess I could write a ruby script to test my site, but I don't keep my linux box running 24x7. I came across http://basicstate.com/ - but they check every 15 min, which I think the window is way too long. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 03:30:43 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:30:43 -0400 Subject: Cubecraft Tux In-Reply-To: <1f13df280909170608m7d566e7bn82445bd2d170c861-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280909170608m7d566e7bn82445bd2d170c861@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB2FEE3.8000607@gmail.com> Giles Orr wrote: > For those who want their own Tux mascot but haven't got around to > getting one yet ... print and fold your own: > > http://www.cubeecraft.com/cubee/tux > This is a cool site =) ... just browsing the other designs! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 05:21:22 2009 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David Christopher Chipman) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 01:21:22 -0400 Subject: site uptime monitoring tool In-Reply-To: <4AB2FDA3.1060405-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB2FDA3.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB318D2.6050606@ican.net> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Anyone know of a good free or inexpensive site uptime monitoring site? > > I guess I could write a ruby script to test my site, but I don't keep > my linux box running 24x7. > > I came across http://basicstate.com/ - but they check every 15 min, > which I think the window is way too long. > Hi Rajinder, Do you have shell access to the machine you're monitoring? If you do, simple use the local machine's uptime(1) command. More information about the situation involved would be helpful. -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 05:40:01 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 01:40:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: site uptime monitoring tool In-Reply-To: <4AB2FDA3.1060405-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB2FDA3.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Sep 2009, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Anyone know of a good free or inexpensive site uptime monitoring site? > > I guess I could write a ruby script to test my site, but I don't keep my > linux box running 24x7. > > I came across http://basicstate.com/ - but they check every 15 min, which I > think the window is way too long. Hi Rajinder. It sounds like you are after a monitoring system. There are a lot of OSS options. I've used Nagios for a lot of years but am gradually evaluating alternatives. You'll need another box to check on your website. If a failure occurs it can alert you through email or SMS. With Nagios I normally use 15 minute checks per service with Nagios. The service checks are spread out so a box with 10 services being checked would actually receive a check every 40 seconds. It's important to repeat checks several times before declaring a problem to avoid false positives. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy http://www.practicalsysadmin.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 11:00:55 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:00:55 -0400 Subject: site uptime monitoring tool In-Reply-To: <4AB2FDA3.1060405-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB2FDA3.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090918110055.GA24159@yam.witteman.ca> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:25:23PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >Anyone know of a good free or inexpensive site uptime monitoring site? > >I guess I could write a ruby script to test my site, but I don't keep >my linux box running 24x7. > >I came across http://basicstate.com/ - but they check every 15 min, >which I think the window is way too long. There are lots of options. I run the following script with cron from two different servers, which point at each other. It just sends an email, but that email is going to Rogers' email-to-SMS gateway, sending text to my phone. #!/usr/bin/python """ Poll the websites specified in the configuration file """ import httplib import optparse import os import smtplib import socket import sqlite3 import time ############################################################# # # # Here is the base configuration for sitepoll # # # config_location = os.path.expanduser("~") + "/.sitepoll.db" # Email address goes here address = ("",) # URLs to poll go here urls = [("",)] ############################################################# def connect2db(): """If if exists, connect to configuration DB, returning a connection object and a cursor. If it does not exist, create and populate it.""" if os.path.exists(config_location): a = sqlite3.connect(config_location) b = a.cursor() else: a = sqlite3.connect(config_location) b = a.cursor() a.commit() b.close() b.execute("""create table urls(url text unique)""") b.execute("""create table address(address text)""") b.execute("""create table flags(url text unique, first text, latest text)""") b.execute("""create table log(url text, status text, timestring text, timestamp text)""") b.execute("""insert into address values (?)""", address) for url in urls: b.execute("""insert into urls values (?)""", url) a.commit() b.close() a = sqlite3.connect(config_location) b = a.cursor() return [a,b] def update_config(): """Update the config sections of the configuration DB.""" """WARNING: This also clears the flags.""" a = connect2db() conn = a[0] c = a[1] c.execute("delete from urls") c.execute("delete from flags") c.execute("delete from address") conn.commit() c.execute("""insert into address values (?)""", address) for url in urls: c.execute("""insert into urls values (?)""", url) conn.commit() c.close() def geturls(): """Get the URLs to poll, return a list.""" siteurls = [] a = connect2db() conn = a[0] c = a[1] c.execute("select * from urls") for i in c: siteurls.append(i[0]) c.close() return siteurls def getreportaddy(): """Get email address from the config, return string.""" a = connect2db() conn = a[0] c = a[1] c.execute("select address from address") report_address = c.fetchone() return report_address def pollsite(url): """Poll a website, returning the response code.""" a = httplib.HTTPConnection(url) try: a.request("GET","/") except: b = "404" return b b = a.getresponse() return b.status def logit(url,status): """Log an error.""" mytime = time.strftime("%Y %m %d %H:%M:%S",time.localtime()) mytimestamp = time.mktime(time.localtime()) log_parts = (url, status, mytimestamp, mytime) a = connect2db() conn = a[0] c = a[1] c.execute("""insert into log values (?,?,?,?)""", log_parts) conn.commit() c.close() def sendmessage(url,status,duration,timestr): """Send an email to the required address to state that the URL is """ """responding with 'status'.""" toaddr = getreportaddy() msg = url + " failed with this status ( " + str(status) + " ) at " + timestr myhostname = socket.gethostname() server = smtplib.SMTP(myhostname) server.sendmail(toaddr,toaddr,msg) server.quit() def setflag(flagged_url,status): """Set a flag for the URL in the flag file, creating it if necessary.""" mytime = time.strftime("%Y %m %d %H:%M:%S",time.localtime()) mytimestamp = time.mktime(time.localtime()) a = connect2db() conn = a[0] c = a[1] c.execute("select url,first,latest from flags where url=?", (flagged_url,)) if c.fetchone(): """There is already a flag for this URL - update with this timestamp.""" try: first = c.fetchone()[1] except: first = 0 try: latest = c.fetchone()[2] except: latest = 0 #debug print("Found a record.") c.execute("update flags set latest=? where url=?",(mytimestamp,flagged_url)) conn.commit() logit(flagged_url,status) # Test the difference between latest and now. difference = mytimestamp - first if difference > 86405*3: pass elif difference >= 86400*3: sendmessage(flagged_url,status,difference,mytime) elif difference >= 86400*2: sendmessage(flagged_url,status,difference,mytime) elif difference >= 86400: sendmessage(flagged_url,status,difference,mytime) else: pass else: """There's no flag for this URL yet - set one, with timestamp as first.""" #debug print("No record yet.") c.execute("insert into flags(url,first,latest) values (?,?,?)",(flagged_url,mytimestamp,mytimestamp)) conn.commit() logit(flagged_url,status) sendmessage(flagged_url,status,0,mytime) def clearflag(flagged_url): """Clear a flag on successful return.""" a = connect2db() conn = a[0] c = a[1] c.execute("delete from flags where url=?",(flagged_url,)) conn.commit() c.close() def status_response(url,status): """Look at the status code returned, and craft an appropriate response.""" if status != 200: setflag(url,status) else: clearflag(url) # Here is the action code # Check for the update config directive (and act appropriately) # get a list of URLs, # poll each one, # push their status to the status_response function def main(): """Define an OptionParser object and make the appropriate function calls.""" usage = "Usage: %prog [options]" parser = optparse.OptionParser(usage) #parser.add_option("-h", "--help", action="store_true", dest="help", help="Use -h or --help to see this. You probably knew that.") parser.add_option("-u", "--update", action="store_true", dest="update", help="Use -u or --update to update the configuration in the database. WARNING: this also clears all of the currently set flags.") (options, args) = parser.parse_args() if options.update: update_config() elif len(args) != 1: urls2poll = geturls() for url in urls2poll: status = pollsite(url) status_response(url,status) if __name__ == "__main__": main() This uses a sqlite database to track stats and response codes. I only have it call my phone once per day of outage, but you can change that. I use it at work to keep track of my home computer, and at home to keep track of work. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 12:27:44 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:27:44 -0400 Subject: site uptime monitoring tool In-Reply-To: <4AB2FDA3.1060405-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB2FDA3.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB37CC0.6080705@rogers.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Anyone know of a good free or inexpensive site uptime monitoring site? > > I guess I could write a ruby script to test my site, but I don't keep > my linux box running 24x7. > > I came across http://basicstate.com/ - but they check every 15 min, > which I think the window is way too long. > How are you planning on monitoring it? If you want real time results, you'll have to have some computer up all the time to do the monitoring. What is it you're trying to measure? Are you trying to determine when it fails? If so, a simple ping every minute may do it, but that will still require some computer to be running to do the test. Also, uptime is a command in Linux that tells you how long a computer has been running since last boot. Is that what you want? I suspect you actually want some sort of "alive" test. Incidentally, here's a short script I've used to ping a site once per minute and log the failures. #! /bin/sh while [ 1 ] do ping 111.222.333.444 -c 1 || date >> ~/log;sleep 60 done -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 12:52:14 2009 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:52:14 -0400 Subject: site uptime monitoring tool In-Reply-To: <4AB2FDA3.1060405-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB2FDA3.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3cb765320909180552o2b6483e6qb58fbd9c9c5b96cc@mail.gmail.com> this might be more than you need at the moment: http://www.zabbix.com/ but it's decent... On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Anyone know of a good free or inexpensive site uptime monitoring site? > > I guess I could write a ruby script to test my site, but I don't keep my > linux box running 24x7. > > I came across http://basicstate.com/ - but they check every 15 min, which I > think the window is way too long. > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- Scott C. Ripley (scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org) mobile: 416.738.6357 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 13:24:17 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:24:17 -0400 Subject: cheap online rsync backups for photos In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880909171555o1a8992d3pf4ad785be0532205-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880909171240h386397b0oa2af3bcdaa48b7c0@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880909171352w3383aa71j54e0a039c63dc5c1@mail.gmail.com> <4AB2A771.8020203@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880909171555o1a8992d3pf4ad785be0532205@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090918132417.GR23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 06:55:37PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Its a bit more expensive, I think its around 25 bucks for 50 gigs and > 60 gig in/out Cheapest method is to find a buddy and do backups for each other. I do that with my parents. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 13:27:03 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:27:03 -0300 Subject: cheap online rsync backups for photos In-Reply-To: <20090918132417.GR23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880909171240h386397b0oa2af3bcdaa48b7c0@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880909171352w3383aa71j54e0a039c63dc5c1@mail.gmail.com> <4AB2A771.8020203@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880909171555o1a8992d3pf4ad785be0532205@mail.gmail.com> <20090918132417.GR23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1089a0320909180627y59e0bf99g3b007ff5879b3f53@mail.gmail.com> Hehehe On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Cheapest method is to find a buddy and do backups for each other. > > I do that with my parents. > > -- > Len Sorensen That's cool.. But you do use rsync in this case? It's a nice way to keep in touch with your backup for sure. ;] --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 06:55:37PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > > Its a bit more expensive, I think its around 25 bucks for 50 gigs and > > 60 gig in/out > > Cheapest method is to find a buddy and do backups for each other. > > I do that with my parents. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 13:47:34 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:47:34 -0400 Subject: cheap online rsync backups for photos In-Reply-To: <1089a0320909180627y59e0bf99g3b007ff5879b3f53-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880909171240h386397b0oa2af3bcdaa48b7c0@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880909171352w3383aa71j54e0a039c63dc5c1@mail.gmail.com> <4AB2A771.8020203@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880909171555o1a8992d3pf4ad785be0532205@mail.gmail.com> <20090918132417.GR23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1089a0320909180627y59e0bf99g3b007ff5879b3f53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090918134733.GS23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:27:03AM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > That's cool.. > > But you do use rsync in this case? It's a nice way to keep in touch with > your backup for sure. Yes rsync in both directions. From the linux server there to the backup dir on mine, and from mine to the backup dir on theirs. Every night by cron. Automated offsite backups are great. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 14:14:50 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:14:50 -0700 Subject: site uptime monitoring tool In-Reply-To: <4AB2FDA3.1060405-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB2FDA3.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0909180714h5a8198e7p5d5c0a29ffb29d9d@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Anyone know of a good free or inexpensive site uptime monitoring site? > > I guess I could write a ruby script to test my site, but I don't keep my > linux box running 24x7. > > I came across http://basicstate.com/ - but they check every 15 min, which I > think the window is way too long. > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > It might be a bit "extra", but nagios has checks which could probably work for this. If you need something specific (checking if a site loads and show a certain string) one could always make/modify the nagios modules. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 14:16:02 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:16:02 -0400 Subject: site uptime monitoring tool In-Reply-To: <3cb765320909180552o2b6483e6qb58fbd9c9c5b96cc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB2FDA3.1060405@gmail.com> <3cb765320909180552o2b6483e6qb58fbd9c9c5b96cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880909180716u24870728sfe242a07087c2a8@mail.gmail.com> Hi Rajinder, It may be out of your price range, but there's a product called UptimeSoftware that monitors *nix/windows at www.uptimesoftware.com. On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > this might be more than you need at the moment: > ?http://www.zabbix.com/ > > but it's decent... > > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Anyone know of a good free or inexpensive site uptime monitoring site? >> >> I guess I could write a ruby script to test my site, but I don't keep my >> linux box running 24x7. >> >> I came across http://basicstate.com/ - but they check every 15 min, which I >> think the window is way too long. >> >> -- >> Kind Regards, >> Rajinder Yadav >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > > > > -- > Scott C. Ripley ?(scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org) > mobile: 416.738.6357 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 16:08:02 2009 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Antonio T. Sun) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:08:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Ubuntu frugal installation References: Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:04:44 +0000, Antonio T. Sun wrote: > How can I do a frugal installation of Ubuntu? (ie, install as-is without > expanding) Just for the archive: title Ubuntu root (hd0,x) kernel /vmlinuz boot=casper iso-scan/filename=/ubuntu-xxx-i386.iso initrd /initrd.gz Ref: http://www.indiabroadband.net/linux/18886-installing-ubuntu-kubuntu- xubuntu-hdd.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 18 21:37:48 2009 From: alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:37:48 -0400 Subject: site uptime monitoring tool In-Reply-To: <4AB2FDA3.1060405-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB2FDA3.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1253309868.28984.50.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> A number of people have offered suggestions. Another one is http://www.perimeter911.com I run it. If the pricing is too high, maybe I can adjust it for you On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 23:25 -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Anyone know of a good free or inexpensive site uptime monitoring site? > > I guess I could write a ruby script to test my site, but I don't keep my linux > box running 24x7. Sincerely, Alan Cohen 416-783-5383 alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 19 00:45:20 2009 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:45:20 -0400 Subject: In Memoriam Leah Kubik Donations to EFF Message-ID: <4AB429A0.3060305@utoronto.ca> The link to in TLUG-Announce gave me a wrong link. I think because it got cut off. I believe this might work: http://bit.ly/7cxq8 Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 19 03:37:10 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:37:10 -0400 Subject: site uptime monitoring tool In-Reply-To: References: <4AB2FDA3.1060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB451E6.7070406@gmail.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 17 Sep 2009, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > >> Anyone know of a good free or inexpensive site uptime monitoring site? >> >> I guess I could write a ruby script to test my site, but I don't keep >> my linux box running 24x7. >> >> I came across http://basicstate.com/ - but they check every 15 min, >> which I think the window is way too long. > > Hi Rajinder. It sounds like you are after a monitoring system. There > are a lot of OSS options. I've used Nagios for a lot of years but am > gradually evaluating alternatives. > > You'll need another box to check on your website. If a failure occurs > it can alert you through email or SMS. > > With Nagios I normally use 15 minute checks per service with Nagios. > The service checks are spread out so a box with 10 services being > checked would actually receive a check every 40 seconds. > > It's important to repeat checks several times before declaring a problem > to avoid false positives. > > Cheers, > > Rob > This is more than I need =), but will keep it in mind when I have a dedicated server host plan. Right now I just wanted a way to monitor if my website is up. I guess the server could still be up so a simple ping test would not tell me if the webserver was down. I could do both a ping and http request for to test my site is up and running. I was looking for another site that would monitor website and send me an email or sms text when it become offline. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 19 03:42:42 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:42:42 -0400 Subject: site uptime monitoring tool In-Reply-To: <20090918110055.GA24159-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB2FDA3.1060405@gmail.com> <20090918110055.GA24159@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4AB45332.6020704@gmail.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:25:23PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Anyone know of a good free or inexpensive site uptime monitoring site? >> >> I guess I could write a ruby script to test my site, but I don't keep >> my linux box running 24x7. >> >> I came across http://basicstate.com/ - but they check every 15 min, >> which I think the window is way too long. > > There are lots of options. I run the following script with cron from > two different servers, which point at each other. It just sends an > email, but that email is going to Rogers' email-to-SMS gateway, sending > text to my phone. > > > #!/usr/bin/python > > """ > Poll the websites specified in the configuration file > > """ > > import httplib > import optparse > import os > import smtplib > import socket > import sqlite3 > import time > > ############################################################# > # # > # Here is the base configuration for sitepoll # > # # > > config_location = os.path.expanduser("~") + "/.sitepoll.db" > # Email address goes here > address = ("",) > # URLs to poll go here > urls = [("",)] > > ############################################################# > > def connect2db(): > """If if exists, connect to configuration DB, returning a connection > object and a cursor. If it does not exist, create and populate it.""" > > if os.path.exists(config_location): > a = sqlite3.connect(config_location) > b = a.cursor() > else: > a = sqlite3.connect(config_location) > b = a.cursor() > a.commit() > b.close() > > b.execute("""create table urls(url text unique)""") > b.execute("""create table address(address text)""") > b.execute("""create table flags(url text unique, first text, latest text)""") > b.execute("""create table log(url text, status text, timestring text, timestamp text)""") > b.execute("""insert into address values (?)""", address) > for url in urls: > b.execute("""insert into urls values (?)""", url) > > a.commit() > b.close() > > a = sqlite3.connect(config_location) > b = a.cursor() > > return [a,b] > > > def update_config(): > """Update the config sections of the configuration DB.""" > """WARNING: This also clears the flags.""" > a = connect2db() > conn = a[0] > c = a[1] > c.execute("delete from urls") > c.execute("delete from flags") > c.execute("delete from address") > conn.commit() > c.execute("""insert into address values (?)""", address) > for url in urls: > c.execute("""insert into urls values (?)""", url) > > conn.commit() > c.close() > > > def geturls(): > """Get the URLs to poll, return a list.""" > > siteurls = [] > > a = connect2db() > conn = a[0] > c = a[1] > c.execute("select * from urls") > for i in c: > siteurls.append(i[0]) > c.close() > > return siteurls > > > def getreportaddy(): > """Get email address from the config, return string.""" > > a = connect2db() > conn = a[0] > c = a[1] > c.execute("select address from address") > report_address = c.fetchone() > > return report_address > > > def pollsite(url): > """Poll a website, returning the response code.""" > > a = httplib.HTTPConnection(url) > try: > a.request("GET","/") > except: > b = "404" > return b > b = a.getresponse() > > return b.status > > > def logit(url,status): > """Log an error.""" > > mytime = time.strftime("%Y %m %d %H:%M:%S",time.localtime()) > mytimestamp = time.mktime(time.localtime()) > log_parts = (url, status, mytimestamp, mytime) > > a = connect2db() > conn = a[0] > c = a[1] > c.execute("""insert into log values (?,?,?,?)""", log_parts) > conn.commit() > c.close() > > > def sendmessage(url,status,duration,timestr): > """Send an email to the required address to state that the URL is """ > """responding with 'status'.""" > toaddr = getreportaddy() > msg = url + " failed with this status ( " + str(status) + " ) at " + timestr > myhostname = socket.gethostname() > server = smtplib.SMTP(myhostname) > server.sendmail(toaddr,toaddr,msg) > server.quit() > > > def setflag(flagged_url,status): > """Set a flag for the URL in the flag file, creating it if necessary.""" > > mytime = time.strftime("%Y %m %d %H:%M:%S",time.localtime()) > mytimestamp = time.mktime(time.localtime()) > a = connect2db() > conn = a[0] > c = a[1] > c.execute("select url,first,latest from flags where url=?", (flagged_url,)) > if c.fetchone(): > """There is already a flag for this URL - update with this timestamp.""" > try: > first = c.fetchone()[1] > except: > first = 0 > try: > latest = c.fetchone()[2] > except: > latest = 0 > #debug print("Found a record.") > c.execute("update flags set latest=? where url=?",(mytimestamp,flagged_url)) > conn.commit() > logit(flagged_url,status) > # Test the difference between latest and now. > difference = mytimestamp - first > if difference > 86405*3: > pass > elif difference >= 86400*3: > sendmessage(flagged_url,status,difference,mytime) > elif difference >= 86400*2: > sendmessage(flagged_url,status,difference,mytime) > elif difference >= 86400: > sendmessage(flagged_url,status,difference,mytime) > else: > pass > else: > """There's no flag for this URL yet - set one, with timestamp as first.""" > #debug print("No record yet.") > c.execute("insert into flags(url,first,latest) values (?,?,?)",(flagged_url,mytimestamp,mytimestamp)) > conn.commit() > logit(flagged_url,status) > sendmessage(flagged_url,status,0,mytime) > > > def clearflag(flagged_url): > """Clear a flag on successful return.""" > a = connect2db() > conn = a[0] > c = a[1] > c.execute("delete from flags where url=?",(flagged_url,)) > conn.commit() > c.close() > > > def status_response(url,status): > """Look at the status code returned, and craft an appropriate response.""" > > if status != 200: > setflag(url,status) > else: > clearflag(url) > > > > > # Here is the action code > # Check for the update config directive (and act appropriately) > # get a list of URLs, > # poll each one, > # push their status to the status_response function > > def main(): > """Define an OptionParser object and make the appropriate function calls.""" > > usage = "Usage: %prog [options]" > parser = optparse.OptionParser(usage) > #parser.add_option("-h", "--help", action="store_true", dest="help", help="Use -h or --help to see this. You probably knew that.") > parser.add_option("-u", "--update", action="store_true", dest="update", help="Use -u or --update to update the configuration in the database. WARNING: this also clears all of the currently set flags.") > (options, args) = parser.parse_args() > > if options.update: > update_config() > elif len(args) != 1: > urls2poll = geturls() > > for url in urls2poll: > status = pollsite(url) > status_response(url,status) > > > if __name__ == "__main__": > main() > > > This uses a sqlite database to track stats and response codes. I only > have it call my phone once per day of outage, but you can change that. > I use it at work to keep track of my home computer, and at home to keep > track of work. Thanks William for the script, unfortunately this would require I have a server running 24/7 to monitor which I do not. I am looking for someone else that provides basic monitoring for me. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 20 00:06:26 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:06:26 -0400 Subject: Linux Media Servers for PS3 Message-ID: <4AB57202.9050807@rogers.com> I thought I would check out the subject and found: http://www.rbgrn.net/content/4-how-set-up-media-servers-for-your-ps3-or-xbox-360 * Cidero Internet Radio Station Server * Cyber Media Gate * Fuppes * Geexbox * GMediaServer * MediaTomb * MiniDLNA * MythTV * PS3 Media Server * TwonkyMedia * uShare This is lots to research. Anyone have experience/suggestions to share? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 20 00:22:32 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:22:32 -0400 Subject: Linux Media Servers for PS3 In-Reply-To: <4AB57202.9050807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB57202.9050807@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4AB575C8.3040407@dinamis.com> On 19/09/09 08:06 PM, Stephen wrote: > I thought I would check out the subject and found: > > http://www.rbgrn.net/content/4-how-set-up-media-servers-for-your-ps3-or-xbox-360 I use fuppes but haven't tried anything else. Works for me. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 20 00:34:18 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux Media Servers for PS3 In-Reply-To: <4AB57202.9050807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB57202.9050807@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Stephen | Anyone have experience/suggestions to share? New ("slim") PS3's won't run Linux :-( So buy a fat one now before the stock evaporates. Sad. I don't actually know whether the fat ones will get a firmware update that excludes Linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 20 00:44:17 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:44:17 -0400 Subject: Linux Media Servers for PS3 In-Reply-To: References: <4AB57202.9050807@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4AB57AE1.3050009@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | New ("slim") PS3's won't run Linux :-( > So buy a fat one now before the stock evaporates. > > Sad. > > I don't actually know whether the fat ones will get a firmware update > that excludes Linux. > > I have two of the fat PS3's :) Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 13:34:53 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:34:53 -0400 Subject: Linux Media Servers for PS3 In-Reply-To: References: <4AB57202.9050807@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090921133453.GT23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 08:34:18PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Stephen > > | Anyone have experience/suggestions to share? > > New ("slim") PS3's won't run Linux :-( > So buy a fat one now before the stock evaporates. > > Sad. > > I don't actually know whether the fat ones will get a firmware update > that excludes Linux. No, sony has said the old ones will always keep it, but the new ones are not getting it. They claim it is because maintaining the hypervisor for the hardware changes they make over time is too much effort. I think the reason is that they want to make sure every new PS3 sold makes they some game license fee revenue. They don't need the linux gimick to help raise sales numbers anymore. -- Ken Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 14:23:52 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT Message-ID: i figure i might as well bug the tlug list on this one, since the location is in TO. was helping someone install some linux software this weekend, and there seemed to be intermittent network problems (losing ssh login sessions), as well as DNS resolvability errors. took a look at a couple of the internal linux systems (call them 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101), and their /etc/resolv.conf files read: nameserver 127.0.0.1 nameserver 192.168.1.1 (the router) search domain1 domain2 ok, i thought, they'll try to access the router for DNS info. but when i browsed over to the router, it was set up for DNS statically with the first two entries: 192.168.1.100 192.168.1.101 am i just confused? that makes no sense to me. the internal systems will consult the router for DNS, while the router turns around and consults the internal systems? am i missing something here? shouldn't the router be set up to consult 3 *external* DNS servers, as supplied by whoever their network provider is? or am i just being clueless? rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 14:27:25 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:27:25 -0300 Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1089a0320909210727l32d22edfy173b6cfc190446a4@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Why did you put nameserver 127.0.0.1 in the /etc/resolv.conf? 127.0.0.1 is the localhost, just loopback. It means, you're trying to use your own computer to resolve its names. It's wrong. Try to remove it from the /etc/resolv.conf and test it. cheers --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > i figure i might as well bug the tlug list on this one, since the > location is in TO. > > was helping someone install some linux software this weekend, and > there seemed to be intermittent network problems (losing ssh login > sessions), as well as DNS resolvability errors. > > took a look at a couple of the internal linux systems (call them > 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101), and their /etc/resolv.conf files > read: > > nameserver 127.0.0.1 > nameserver 192.168.1.1 (the router) > search domain1 domain2 > > ok, i thought, they'll try to access the router for DNS info. but > when i browsed over to the router, it was set up for DNS statically > with the first two entries: > > 192.168.1.100 > 192.168.1.101 > > am i just confused? that makes no sense to me. the internal systems > will consult the router for DNS, while the router turns around and > consults the internal systems? am i missing something here? > shouldn't the router be set up to consult 3 *external* DNS servers, as > supplied by whoever their network provider is? or am i just being > clueless? > > rday > -- > > ======================================================================== > Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA > > Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. > > Web page: http://crashcourse.ca > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday > ======================================================================== > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 14:34:23 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: <1089a0320909210727l32d22edfy173b6cfc190446a4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1089a0320909210727l32d22edfy173b6cfc190446a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Hi, > Why did you put??nameserver 127.0.0.1 in the /etc/resolv.conf? > 127.0.0.1 is the localhost, just loopback. It means, you're trying to use your > own computer to resolve its names. > It's wrong. Try to remove it from the /etc/resolv.conf and test it. > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Robert P. J. Day > wrote: > > ?i figure i might as well bug the tlug list on this one, since the > location is in TO. > > ?was helping someone install some linux software this weekend, and > there seemed to be intermittent network problems (losing ssh login > sessions), as well as DNS resolvability errors. > > ?took a look at a couple of the internal linux systems (call them > 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101), and their /etc/resolv.conf files > read: > > ?nameserver 127.0.0.1 > ?nameserver 192.168.1.1 ? (the router) > ?search domain1 domain2 > > ok, i thought, they'll try to access the router for DNS info. ?but > when i browsed over to the router, it was set up for DNS statically > with the first two entries: > > ?192.168.1.100 > ?192.168.1.101 > > am i just confused? ?that makes no sense to me. ?the internal > systems > will consult the router for DNS, while the router turns around and > consults the internal systems? ?am i missing something here? > shouldn't the router be set up to consult 3 *external* DNS servers, > as > supplied by whoever their network provider is? ?or am i just being > clueless? i had already noticed that -- that setup is just plain strange. but am i right in thinking that it's silly to have the linksys router pointing *inward* for its static DNS servers? surely, if the internal systems are consulting the router, the router should be consulting even *further* outside the org to external nameservers. i've never see a situation where those systems point at each other like that. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 14:39:44 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:39:44 -0300 Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: References: <1089a0320909210727l32d22edfy173b6cfc190446a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1089a0320909210739g426f82c6p8678dc0305b89279@mail.gmail.com> Well... The computer should get only the router's ip as its DNS. But, the router should be pointing to an external DNS server. For example, the open DNS. Try it. Configure the router to use the opendns: 208.67.222.222 208.67.220.220 Cheers --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > > > Hi, > > Why did you put nameserver 127.0.0.1 in the /etc/resolv.conf? > > 127.0.0.1 is the localhost, just loopback. It means, you're trying to use > your > > own computer to resolve its names. > > It's wrong. Try to remove it from the /etc/resolv.conf and test it. > > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Robert P. J. Day < > rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org> > > wrote: > > > > i figure i might as well bug the tlug list on this one, since the > > location is in TO. > > > > was helping someone install some linux software this weekend, and > > there seemed to be intermittent network problems (losing ssh login > > sessions), as well as DNS resolvability errors. > > > > took a look at a couple of the internal linux systems (call them > > 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101), and their /etc/resolv.conf files > > read: > > > > nameserver 127.0.0.1 > > nameserver 192.168.1.1 (the router) > > search domain1 domain2 > > > > ok, i thought, they'll try to access the router for DNS info. but > > when i browsed over to the router, it was set up for DNS statically > > with the first two entries: > > > > 192.168.1.100 > > 192.168.1.101 > > > > am i just confused? that makes no sense to me. the internal > > systems > > will consult the router for DNS, while the router turns around and > > consults the internal systems? am i missing something here? > > shouldn't the router be set up to consult 3 *external* DNS servers, > > as > > supplied by whoever their network provider is? or am i just being > > clueless? > > i had already noticed that -- that setup is just plain strange. but > am i right in thinking that it's silly to have the linksys router > pointing *inward* for its static DNS servers? surely, if the internal > systems are consulting the router, the router should be consulting > even *further* outside the org to external nameservers. i've never > see a situation where those systems point at each other like that. > > rday > -- > > ======================================================================== > Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA > > Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. > > Web page: http://crashcourse.ca > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday > ======================================================================== > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 14:48:34 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: <1089a0320909210739g426f82c6p8678dc0305b89279-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1089a0320909210727l32d22edfy173b6cfc190446a4@mail.gmail.com> <1089a0320909210739g426f82c6p8678dc0305b89279@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Well... The computer should get only the router's ip as its DNS. > But, the router should be pointing to an external DNS server. For > example, the open DNS. Try it. Configure the router to use the > opendns: > > 208.67.222.222 > 208.67.220.220 > > > Cheers right, that's the way *i* would have set things up. i was trying to figure out if there was a universe in which it made any sense to have the internal systems point to the router, and the router point back to the internal systems. so i'm going to assume the answer is "no." rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 14:49:10 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:49:10 -0400 Subject: OT: external DNS was Re:really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: <1089a0320909210739g426f82c6p8678dc0305b89279-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1089a0320909210727l32d22edfy173b6cfc190446a4@mail.gmail.com> <1089a0320909210739g426f82c6p8678dc0305b89279@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB79266.7010403@moores.ca> I used to use openDNS, but they suffer the same problem as the ISP DNSs. I.E. they hijack the domain requests. You have to sign up, then opt out to make it work the way it is suppose too. I tend to use 4.2.2.1 through 4.2.2.6 which are the only reliable dns servers I've found on the net that still work they way they are suppose too. cheers, darryl Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Well... The computer should get only the router's ip as its DNS. But, > the router should be pointing to an external DNS server. > For example, the open DNS. Try it. Configure the router to use the opendns: > > > 208.67.222.222 > 208.67.220.220 > > > Cheers > > --- > - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib > - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master > - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 > - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro > - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org > - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org > - KDE Brasil Member > - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group > - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Robert P. J. Day > > wrote: > > On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > > > Hi, > > Why did you put nameserver 127.0.0.1 in the /etc/resolv.conf? > > 127.0.0.1 is the localhost, just loopback. It means, you're trying > to use your > > own computer to resolve its names. > > It's wrong. Try to remove it from the /etc/resolv.conf and test it. > > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Robert P. J. Day > > > > wrote: > > > > i figure i might as well bug the tlug list on this one, > since the > > location is in TO. > > > > was helping someone install some linux software this > weekend, and > > there seemed to be intermittent network problems (losing ssh > login > > sessions), as well as DNS resolvability errors. > > > > took a look at a couple of the internal linux systems (call > them > > 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101), and their /etc/resolv.conf > files > > read: > > > > nameserver 127.0.0.1 > > nameserver 192.168.1.1 (the router) > > search domain1 domain2 > > > > ok, i thought, they'll try to access the router for DNS > info. but > > when i browsed over to the router, it was set up for DNS > statically > > with the first two entries: > > > > 192.168.1.100 > > 192.168.1.101 > > > > am i just confused? that makes no sense to me. the internal > > systems > > will consult the router for DNS, while the router turns > around and > > consults the internal systems? am i missing something here? > > shouldn't the router be set up to consult 3 *external* DNS > servers, > > as > > supplied by whoever their network provider is? or am i just > being > > clueless? > > i had already noticed that -- that setup is just plain strange. but > am i right in thinking that it's silly to have the linksys router > pointing *inward* for its static DNS servers? surely, if the internal > systems are consulting the router, the router should be consulting > even *further* outside the org to external nameservers. i've never > see a situation where those systems point at each other like that. > > rday > -- > > ======================================================================== > Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA > > Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. > > Web page: http://crashcourse.ca > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday > ======================================================================== > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 14:50:18 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: external DNS was Re:really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: <4AB79266.7010403-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1089a0320909210727l32d22edfy173b6cfc190446a4@mail.gmail.com> <1089a0320909210739g426f82c6p8678dc0305b89279@mail.gmail.com> <4AB79266.7010403@moores.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Darryl Moore wrote: > I used to use openDNS, but they suffer the same problem as the ISP > DNSs. I.E. they hijack the domain requests. You have to sign up, > then opt out to make it work the way it is suppose too. > > I tend to use 4.2.2.1 through 4.2.2.6 which are the only reliable > dns servers I've found on the net that still work they way they are > suppose too. i figure the obvious DNS servers to use would be the ones provided by their ISP, no? rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 14:53:18 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:53:18 -0400 Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: References: <1089a0320909210727l32d22edfy173b6cfc190446a4@mail.gmail.com> <1089a0320909210739g426f82c6p8678dc0305b89279@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > >> Well... The computer should get only the router's ip as its DNS. >> But, the router should be pointing to an external DNS server. For >> example, the open DNS. Try it. Configure the router to use the >> opendns: >> >> ? ? 208.67.222.222 >> ? ? 208.67.220.220 >> >> >> Cheers > > ?right, that's the way *i* would have set things up. ?i was trying to > figure out if there was a universe in which it made any sense to have > the internal systems point to the router, and the router point back to > the internal systems. ?so i'm going to assume the answer is "no." I could see having *MOST* internal systems point to the router, then have the router point back to a cacheing DNS server inside the network. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach - "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/marie_von_ebnereschenbac.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 14:53:48 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:53:48 -0400 Subject: OT: external DNS was Re:really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: References: <1089a0320909210727l32d22edfy173b6cfc190446a4@mail.gmail.com> <1089a0320909210739g426f82c6p8678dc0305b89279@mail.gmail.com> <4AB79266.7010403@moores.ca> Message-ID: <4AB7937C.4010903@moores.ca> No! Not any more. Their DNSs can cause real headaches for VPN, and other programs where you want to know if a lookup fails, then try another DNS (usually internal) which may have the address you want. ISP DNSs never fail, and as a result break a lot of programs and networks. Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Darryl Moore wrote: > >> I used to use openDNS, but they suffer the same problem as the ISP >> DNSs. I.E. they hijack the domain requests. You have to sign up, >> then opt out to make it work the way it is suppose too. >> >> I tend to use 4.2.2.1 through 4.2.2.6 which are the only reliable >> dns servers I've found on the net that still work they way they are >> suppose too. > > i figure the obvious DNS servers to use would be the ones provided > by their ISP, no? > > rday > -- > > ======================================================================== > Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA > > Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. > > Web page: http://crashcourse.ca > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday > ======================================================================== > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 14:55:05 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:55:05 -0400 Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090921145505.GU23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:23:52AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > i figure i might as well bug the tlug list on this one, since the > location is in TO. > > was helping someone install some linux software this weekend, and > there seemed to be intermittent network problems (losing ssh login > sessions), as well as DNS resolvability errors. > > took a look at a couple of the internal linux systems (call them > 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101), and their /etc/resolv.conf files > read: > > nameserver 127.0.0.1 > nameserver 192.168.1.1 (the router) > search domain1 domain2 resolv.conf controls what the router uses to resolve dns queries. It has no effect on how clients behind the router get DNS at all. Does the router have any need for external DNS at all really? Clients that use the router for dns will get whatever the nameserver on port 53 of the router is configured to do (and it never cares at all about /etc/resolv.conf). Any box that has a nameserver installed will usually have resolv.conf point at itself to talk to its own nameserver on port 53. Very sensible setup. > ok, i thought, they'll try to access the router for DNS info. but > when i browsed over to the router, it was set up for DNS statically > with the first two entries: > > 192.168.1.100 > 192.168.1.101 So it can offer DNS service to the local network. It is almost certainly configured to offer forwarding to an outside DNS for anything it doesn't know itself. Perfectly normal setup. > am i just confused? that makes no sense to me. the internal systems > will consult the router for DNS, while the router turns around and > consults the internal systems? am i missing something here? > shouldn't the router be set up to consult 3 *external* DNS servers, as > supplied by whoever their network provider is? or am i just being > clueless? I suspect it is completely normal, and you just need to learn how DNS and name resolution works. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 14:55:22 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:55:22 -0400 Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: References: <1089a0320909210727l32d22edfy173b6cfc190446a4@mail.gmail.com> <1089a0320909210739g426f82c6p8678dc0305b89279@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB793DA.7000709@moores.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Robert P. J. Day > wrote: >> On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: >> >>> Well... The computer should get only the router's ip as its DNS. >>> But, the router should be pointing to an external DNS server. For >>> example, the open DNS. Try it. Configure the router to use the >>> opendns: >>> >>> 208.67.222.222 >>> 208.67.220.220 >>> >>> >>> Cheers >> right, that's the way *i* would have set things up. i was trying to >> figure out if there was a universe in which it made any sense to have >> the internal systems point to the router, and the router point back to >> the internal systems. so i'm going to assume the answer is "no." > > I could see having *MOST* internal systems point to the router, then > have the router point back to a cacheing DNS server inside the > network. > Why not just have the internal cacheing DNS be your primary for the network, instead of looking to the router first? I can't see a scenario where this would be useful. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 14:58:47 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:58:47 -0400 Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: <20090921145505.GU23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090921145505.GU23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AB794A7.40300@moores.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:23:52AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: >> i figure i might as well bug the tlug list on this one, since the >> location is in TO. >> >> was helping someone install some linux software this weekend, and >> there seemed to be intermittent network problems (losing ssh login >> sessions), as well as DNS resolvability errors. >> >> took a look at a couple of the internal linux systems (call them >> 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101), and their /etc/resolv.conf files >> read: >> >> nameserver 127.0.0.1 >> nameserver 192.168.1.1 (the router) >> search domain1 domain2 > > resolv.conf controls what the router uses to resolve dns queries. > It has no effect on how clients behind the router get DNS at all. > Does the router have any need for external DNS at all really? > What? resolve.conf is on the clients. It has nothing to do with the router other then, in this case, to direct the clients to it. I think you need to reread his query. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 15:10:27 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Robert P. J. Day Context: The "resolver" is the name for the part of the libary that allows programs to make DNS queries. Typically part of glibc. For example, programs like Firefox use the resolver to map DNS names into IP addresses. The resolver is onfigured by /etc/resolv.conf (which may be altered by the DHCP client). The "DNS server" is a program for maintaining the distributed database that is DNS. One function of a DNS server is to answer queries from resolvers. On UNIX systems it is usually called named; BIND (Berkeley Internet Name Daemon) is the classic implementation but there are others with certain advantages. Typically configured by /etc/named.conf. All (or almost all) ISPs offer a DNS server for their customers to use so that those customers don't need to have their own DNS server. There are a number of complaints on this list about various ISPs name service. | took a look at a couple of the internal linux systems (call them | 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101), and their /etc/resolv.conf files | read: | | nameserver 127.0.0.1 | nameserver 192.168.1.1 (the router) That tells the resolver to alternate asking the DNS server on the machine itself and on the router. (Alternating doesn't always accomplish what you'd want.) So there is likely a DNS server running on the machine itself. That server doesn't look at /etc/resolv.conf, it looks at /etc/named.conf (if it is BIND, which it probably is). Are you running BIND on one or both of the local machines? If neither, this should not work at all. If only one, things get confusing (with the alternation). If on both, and correctly configured, everything could work. | ok, i thought, they'll try to access the router for DNS info. but | when i browsed over to the router, it was set up for DNS statically | with the first two entries: | | 192.168.1.100 | 192.168.1.101 That tells the router to use the local machines' DNS server. Or more accurately, to specify those as the IP addresses of DNS servers in DHCP messages it serves (thus configuring /etc/resolv.conf in any machine that listens). It implies that both local machines are running a DNS server. | am i just confused? that makes no sense to me. the internal systems | will consult the router for DNS, while the router turns around and | consults the internal systems? am i missing something here? | shouldn't the router be set up to consult 3 *external* DNS servers, as | supplied by whoever their network provider is? or am i just being | clueless? On my home LAN, I run a DNS server (two, actually, but ignore that). I've found that my ISP's DNS servers act up once in a blue moon and I don't need one more mysterious problem. My DHCP server tells its clients to use my local server for DNS queries. So the setup you observed isn't necessarily wrong. You have observed a problem, so you need to dig into the nameds running on each machine. This stuff is quite intricate, partly because there are so many choices of how to do many many parts of this. If you care about DNSSec (and I think one should), things are getting more complicated, with more failure modes. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 15:41:42 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:41:42 -0400 Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: <4AB794A7.40300-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20090921145505.GU23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB794A7.40300@moores.ca> Message-ID: <20090921154142.GV23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:58:47AM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:23:52AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > >> i figure i might as well bug the tlug list on this one, since the > >> location is in TO. > >> > >> was helping someone install some linux software this weekend, and > >> there seemed to be intermittent network problems (losing ssh login > >> sessions), as well as DNS resolvability errors. > >> > >> took a look at a couple of the internal linux systems (call them > >> 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101), and their /etc/resolv.conf files > >> read: > >> > >> nameserver 127.0.0.1 > >> nameserver 192.168.1.1 (the router) > >> search domain1 domain2 > > > > resolv.conf controls what the router uses to resolve dns queries. > > It has no effect on how clients behind the router get DNS at all. > > Does the router have any need for external DNS at all really? > > > > What? > > resolve.conf is on the clients. It has nothing to do with the router > other then, in this case, to direct the clients to it. > > I think you need to reread his query. Oh, yes I see. Well I know that if you install a caching nameserver, then that kind of setup may happen, at least in combination with some dhcp client configurations. dns says 'put 127.0.0.1 in resolv.conf' dhcp client says 'put foo in resolv.conf' Not a very stable configuration. Often seen when revolveconf package is in use. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 15:45:03 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: <20090921154142.GV23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090921145505.GU23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB794A7.40300@moores.ca> <20090921154142.GV23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:58:47AM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > > > > > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:23:52AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > >> i figure i might as well bug the tlug list on this one, since the > > >> location is in TO. > > >> > > >> was helping someone install some linux software this weekend, > > >> and there seemed to be intermittent network problems (losing > > >> ssh login sessions), as well as DNS resolvability errors. > > >> > > >> took a look at a couple of the internal linux systems (call > > >> them 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101), and their > > >> /etc/resolv.conf files read: > > >> > > >> nameserver 127.0.0.1 > > >> nameserver 192.168.1.1 (the router) > > >> search domain1 domain2 > > > > > > resolv.conf controls what the router uses to resolve dns > > > queries. It has no effect on how clients behind the router get > > > DNS at all. Does the router have any need for external DNS at > > > all really? > > > > > > > What? > > > > resolve.conf is on the clients. It has nothing to do with the > > router other then, in this case, to direct the clients to it. > > > > I think you need to reread his query. > > Oh, yes I see. Well I know that if you install a caching nameserver, > then that kind of setup may happen, at least in combination with some > dhcp client configurations. i *figured* you misunderstood, lennart, since i can't see you making that kind of mistake. :-) and, yes, i can see now (based on hugh's posting as well) that it might be a clever setup where one of the internal systems is set up as a caching nameserver. but i think i'll just go for simplicity for now, and get fancier once i do some reading. i haven't taken a close look at the open source dd-wrt router firmware -- does it support caching on the router itself, does anyone know? rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 16:08:42 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:08:42 -0400 Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: <20090921154142.GV23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090921145505.GU23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB794A7.40300@moores.ca> <20090921154142.GV23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090921160842.GW23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:41:42AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:58:47AM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > > > > > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:23:52AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > >> i figure i might as well bug the tlug list on this one, since the > > >> location is in TO. > > >> > > >> was helping someone install some linux software this weekend, and > > >> there seemed to be intermittent network problems (losing ssh login > > >> sessions), as well as DNS resolvability errors. > > >> > > >> took a look at a couple of the internal linux systems (call them > > >> 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101), and their /etc/resolv.conf files > > >> read: > > >> > > >> nameserver 127.0.0.1 > > >> nameserver 192.168.1.1 (the router) > > >> search domain1 domain2 > > > > > > resolv.conf controls what the router uses to resolve dns queries. > > > It has no effect on how clients behind the router get DNS at all. > > > Does the router have any need for external DNS at all really? > > > > > > > What? > > > > resolve.conf is on the clients. It has nothing to do with the router > > other then, in this case, to direct the clients to it. > > > > I think you need to reread his query. > > Oh, yes I see. Well I know that if you install a caching nameserver, > then that kind of setup may happen, at least in combination with some > dhcp client configurations. > > dns says 'put 127.0.0.1 in resolv.conf' > dhcp client says 'put foo in resolv.conf' > > Not a very stable configuration. Often seen when revolveconf package > is in use. In other words, don't install a caching name server on a dhcp client machine. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 16:44:45 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: <20090921160842.GW23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090921145505.GU23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB794A7.40300@moores.ca> <20090921154142.GV23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090921160842.GW23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Subject: Re: [TLUG]: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running | DD-WRT | | On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:41:42AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: | > dns says 'put 127.0.0.1 in resolv.conf' DNS servers don't normally say anything like that to an agent that modifies resolv.conf | > dhcp client says 'put foo in resolv.conf' | > | > Not a very stable configuration. Often seen when revolveconf package | > is in use. | | In other words, don't install a caching name server on a dhcp client | machine. :) I do. Well, my DNS servers are not just caching, but that isn't relevant. It can make sense for a gateway machine to use a DHCP client to configure its outward facing interface and to also run a DNS server for the LAN. What resolv.con says on that machine may not even matter: there may not be any resovers run on that machine. There are many many configurations that make sense. And more that don't. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 21:07:29 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:07:29 -0700 Subject: really weird(?) DNS setup on linksys router running DD-WRT In-Reply-To: <1089a0320909210727l32d22edfy173b6cfc190446a4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1089a0320909210727l32d22edfy173b6cfc190446a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8BB0D295-D754-4F4B-9F5E-F778B4507AD6@gmail.com> A localhost IP might be valid if one is running some form of DNS- caching daemon locally. (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 21-Sep-09, at 7:27 AM, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Hi, > > Why did you put nameserver 127.0.0.1 in the /etc/resolv.conf? > 127.0.0.1 is the localhost, just loopback. It means, you're trying > to use your own computer to resolve its names. > It's wrong. Try to remove it from the /etc/resolv.conf and test it. > > cheers > --- > - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib > - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master > - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 > - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro > - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org > - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org > - KDE Brasil Member > - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group > - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Robert P. J. Day > wrote: > > i figure i might as well bug the tlug list on this one, since the > location is in TO. > > was helping someone install some linux software this weekend, and > there seemed to be intermittent network problems (losing ssh login > sessions), as well as DNS resolvability errors. > > took a look at a couple of the internal linux systems (call them > 192.168.1.100 and 192.168.1.101), and their /etc/resolv.conf files > read: > > nameserver 127.0.0.1 > nameserver 192.168.1.1 (the router) > search domain1 domain2 > > ok, i thought, they'll try to access the router for DNS info. but > when i browsed over to the router, it was set up for DNS statically > with the first two entries: > > 192.168.1.100 > 192.168.1.101 > > am i just confused? that makes no sense to me. the internal systems > will consult the router for DNS, while the router turns around and > consults the internal systems? am i missing something here? > shouldn't the router be set up to consult 3 *external* DNS servers, as > supplied by whoever their network provider is? or am i just being > clueless? > > rday > -- > > === > ===================================================================== > Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, > CANADA > > Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. > > Web page: http://crashcourse.ca > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday > === > ===================================================================== > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 21 22:07:29 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:07:29 -0400 Subject: Reasonable CISSP offers Message-ID: Hi guys, I am planning to prepare for CISSP by December and looking for a reasonable school that prepare students for that certificate. I had registered with Seneca, but the canceled the class last week. Today morning, I called Ryerson but apparently the class is full, which I found funny considering Seneca canceled their class for lack of quorum. Now, that petty put the best options out of the picture. I have googled on the subject and it look the rest offer like a 5 days - one week - training for the same amount of money. Thats kind of sucks, for one, you lack the necessary pacing these classes provide, is considerably short compared to what one can get from Ryerson and I also tend to look down on most of the private colleges - may be I should stop reading newspapers too closely, as I am a little paranoid on that regard. Anyway, have any of you here taken the course through a college that they can recommend. I can wait, but I feel like that will be 3 months of my life I will have wasted. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 00:47:52 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:47:52 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself... In-Reply-To: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB81EB8.1030409@moores.ca> Hi Marcelo, Welcome. I don't think I had heard of Archlinux before. Of course there are so many I can't say that for sure. I am sure I've never heard of the pacman package manager. I'm curious about Tux-CE. Does it have anything to do with bridging between Linux and WinCE? Oh, and one last thing. I love your tux graphic in your sig. I am feeling a very strong compulsion to shamelessly steal it. It's great. cheers, darryl Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Hi people, > > I'm new in the list and would like to introduce myself. > > My name is Marcelo Cavalcante, aka kalib, and I'm 23. I'm from Brazil. > > I do work with Linux and Free Software since 2005 and for these years > I'm always acting as a free software militant. Always working with the > local community in events, workshops, installfests, etc.. I'm a > Archlinux Brazil Developers Team member and KDE Brazil Member. I'm also > a founder of a local free software community called Tux-CE. > > Well, I think you guys must be confused.. Why am I trying to participate > in a canadian free software community if I do live in Brazil? o.O > > I can explain.. It's because I always have been active in the local > community and in 2007 I visited Toronto, where I lived for 7 months. I > came back to finish my university. I really loved your country and city. > In ~2 years ( I guess) I'll be done with my university and I have plans > to go live in Toronto for some years. > > That's why.. > > I hope you guys don't see a problem on this.. :/ > > And I really hope I can participate and help the list. > > Best regards, > > --- > > - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib > - /(_)\ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 > - ^ ^ GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro > - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org > - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org > - KDE Brasil Member > - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 11:59:02 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:59:02 -0300 Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself... In-Reply-To: <4AB81EB8.1030409-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com> <4AB81EB8.1030409@moores.ca> Message-ID: <1089a0320909220459v64d04c7cs5d852ba42ba3250d@mail.gmail.com> Hi Darryl, On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Darryl Moore wrote: > Hi Marcelo, > > Welcome. > Thanks. ;] > I don't think I had heard of Archlinux before. Of course there are so > many I can't say that for sure. I am sure I've never heard of the pacman > package manager. > That's strange. Archlinux was born in Canada. It's an amazing distro as you can see checking the links [1], [2], [3], [4] and [5]. (Have fun.. hehe ;] I really think you'll enjoy it. ) > I'm curious about Tux-CE. Does it have anything to do with bridging > between Linux and WinCE? > Nothing about WinCE. Actually it's a Free Software Community. I'm one of its founders. The CE is because of our state/province in Brazil. Cear?. ;] Just that. We have some projects with digital inclusion focused on free software and we do organize events, workshops, install fests, etc. You can check some pictures of these projects/events in the links [x], [6], [7] and [8]. ;] > Oh, and one last thing. I love your tux graphic in your sig. I am > feeling a very strong compulsion to shamelessly steal it. It's great. > > Don't worry about it. Feel free to use it or modify if you want. ;] > cheers, > darryl > > Links: [1] - http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux [2] - http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way [3] - http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_vs_Others [4] - http://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2006/64/ARCH-SIMPLICITY [5] - http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20090119#feature [6] - http://www.tux-ce.org/portal/image/tid/5 [7] - http://www.tux-ce.org/portal/image/tid/13 [8] - http://www.tux-ce.org/portal/image/tid/7 cheers, --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 14:00:59 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:00:59 -0400 Subject: idiot proof server Message-ID: <4AB8D89B.3060304@tmis.ca> Can you think of an idiot proof single server setup? A single server setup where they can fdisk/rm/dd whatever and still be able to recover it from backup.They want a setup, where they can fix whatever they messed up. if all drives are active at any time it is not secure from the idiot. the only thing that I can see would be a single server and PXE? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 14:06:40 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:06:40 -0400 Subject: idiot proof server In-Reply-To: <4AB8D89B.3060304-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB8D89B.3060304@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4AB8D9F0.5090507@moores.ca> What about a virtual machine? teddy mills wrote: > > Can you think of an idiot proof single server setup? > > A single server setup where they can fdisk/rm/dd whatever and still be > able to recover it from backup.They want a setup, where they can fix > whatever they messed up. > > if all drives are active at any time it is not secure from the idiot. > the only thing that I can see would be a single server and PXE? > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 14:09:07 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:09:07 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself... In-Reply-To: <1089a0320909220459v64d04c7cs5d852ba42ba3250d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com> <4AB81EB8.1030409@moores.ca> <1089a0320909220459v64d04c7cs5d852ba42ba3250d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB8DA83.2080402@moores.ca> Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Hi Darryl, > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Darryl Moore > wrote: > > Hi Marcelo, > > Welcome. > > > Thanks. ;] > > > I don't think I had heard of Archlinux before. Of course there are so > many I can't say that for sure. I am sure I've never heard of the pacman > package manager. > > > That's strange. Archlinux was born in Canada. It's an amazing distro as > you can see checking the links [1], [2], [3], [4] and [5]. (Have fun.. > hehe ;] I really think you'll enjoy it. ) > Thanks. Of course I'm not surprised there is a huge number of distros out there. > > I'm curious about Tux-CE. Does it have anything to do with bridging > between Linux and WinCE? > > > Nothing about WinCE. Actually it's a Free Software Community. I'm one of > its founders. The CE is because of our state/province in Brazil. Cear?. > ;] Just that. > > We have some projects with digital inclusion focused on free software > and we do organize events, workshops, install fests, etc. You can check > some pictures of these projects/events in the links [x], [6], [7] and > [8]. ;] > Ah, so it's a user group like TLUG then. > > Oh, and one last thing. I love your tux graphic in your sig. I am > feeling a very strong compulsion to shamelessly steal it. It's great. > > > Don't worry about it. Feel free to use it or modify if you want. ;] > Thanks. I just might. cheers, darryl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 14:16:16 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:16:16 -0400 Subject: idiot proof server In-Reply-To: <4AB8D89B.3060304-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB8D89B.3060304@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4AB8DC30.4090603@alteeve.com> teddy mills wrote: > > Can you think of an idiot proof single server setup? > > A single server setup where they can fdisk/rm/dd whatever and still be > able to recover it from backup.They want a setup, where they can fix > whatever they messed up. > > if all drives are active at any time it is not secure from the idiot. > the only thing that I can see would be a single server and PXE? Science can build a better machine, but human nature will always trump it with a better idiot. If you can get away with a PXE boot, that would probably be best, but nothing will protect the user's data created on the PXE session... Perhaps an hourly/half-hourly/quarter-hourly rsync to a backup machine without the '--delete' flag? That will protect against deletes, but not corruption of the file(s). Alternatively, have four rsync's run to four backup sources every other 15 minutes with a nightly to a fifth location? Would give you 24 hours to realize you snarfed a file. In short though, I don't think you can... Not truly and not even close without significant investment. How close you can get depends on the amount of time you expect to pass before screw ups are realized and how far back in time you want to be able to recover from. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 14:26:02 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:26:02 -0300 Subject: idiot proof server In-Reply-To: <4AB8DC30.4090603-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB8D89B.3060304@tmis.ca> <4AB8DC30.4090603@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1089a0320909220726t33c37dc6r6a4a0193a1463f44@mail.gmail.com> Why don't you use a VPS? For example, http://vps.net/ It's simple and cheap. cheers --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > teddy mills wrote: > >> >> Can you think of an idiot proof single server setup? >> >> A single server setup where they can fdisk/rm/dd whatever and still be >> able to recover it from backup.They want a setup, where they can fix >> whatever they messed up. >> >> if all drives are active at any time it is not secure from the idiot. >> the only thing that I can see would be a single server and PXE? >> > > Science can build a better machine, but human nature will always trump it > with a better idiot. > > If you can get away with a PXE boot, that would probably be best, but > nothing will protect the user's data created on the PXE session... Perhaps > an hourly/half-hourly/quarter-hourly rsync to a backup machine without the > '--delete' flag? That will protect against deletes, but not corruption of > the file(s). Alternatively, have four rsync's run to four backup sources > every other 15 minutes with a nightly to a fifth location? Would give you 24 > hours to realize you snarfed a file. > > In short though, I don't think you can... Not truly and not even close > without significant investment. How close you can get depends on the amount > of time you expect to pass before screw ups are realized and how far back in > time you want to be able to recover from. > > Madi > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 14:27:03 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:27:03 -0400 Subject: idiot proof server In-Reply-To: <4AB8DC30.4090603-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB8D89B.3060304@tmis.ca> <4AB8DC30.4090603@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4AB8DEB7.5050203@moores.ca> It was never mentioned what kind of server this is. That could make a difference as to what the best solution would be. Madison Kelly wrote: > teddy mills wrote: >> >> Can you think of an idiot proof single server setup? >> >> A single server setup where they can fdisk/rm/dd whatever and still be >> able to recover it from backup.They want a setup, where they can fix >> whatever they messed up. >> >> if all drives are active at any time it is not secure from the idiot. >> the only thing that I can see would be a single server and PXE? > > Science can build a better machine, but human nature will always trump > it with a better idiot. > > If you can get away with a PXE boot, that would probably be best, but > nothing will protect the user's data created on the PXE session... > Perhaps an hourly/half-hourly/quarter-hourly rsync to a backup machine > without the '--delete' flag? That will protect against deletes, but not > corruption of the file(s). Alternatively, have four rsync's run to four > backup sources every other 15 minutes with a nightly to a fifth > location? Would give you 24 hours to realize you snarfed a file. > > In short though, I don't think you can... Not truly and not even close > without significant investment. How close you can get depends on the > amount of time you expect to pass before screw ups are realized and how > far back in time you want to be able to recover from. > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 14:30:34 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:30:34 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself... In-Reply-To: <1089a0320909220459v64d04c7cs5d852ba42ba3250d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com> <4AB81EB8.1030409@moores.ca> <1089a0320909220459v64d04c7cs5d852ba42ba3250d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB8DF8A.7070809@moores.ca> I might also add Marcelo, that your really cool Tux sig would look a lot nicer if your emails were plain text rather than html. :-) cheers, darryl Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Hi Darryl, > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Darryl Moore > wrote: > > Hi Marcelo, > > Welcome. > > > Thanks. ;] > > > I don't think I had heard of Archlinux before. Of course there are so > many I can't say that for sure. I am sure I've never heard of the pacman > package manager. > > > That's strange. Archlinux was born in Canada. It's an amazing distro as > you can see checking the links [1], [2], [3], [4] and [5]. (Have fun.. > hehe ;] I really think you'll enjoy it. ) > > > I'm curious about Tux-CE. Does it have anything to do with bridging > between Linux and WinCE? > > > Nothing about WinCE. Actually it's a Free Software Community. I'm one of > its founders. The CE is because of our state/province in Brazil. Cear?. > ;] Just that. > > We have some projects with digital inclusion focused on free software > and we do organize events, workshops, install fests, etc. You can check > some pictures of these projects/events in the links [x], [6], [7] and > [8]. ;] > > > Oh, and one last thing. I love your tux graphic in your sig. I am > feeling a very strong compulsion to shamelessly steal it. It's great. > > > Don't worry about it. Feel free to use it or modify if you want. ;] > > > cheers, > darryl > > > Links: > [1] - http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux > [2] - http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way > [3] - http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_vs_Others > [4] - http://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2006/64/ARCH-SIMPLICITY > [5] - http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20090119#feature > [6] - http://www.tux-ce.org/portal/image/tid/5 > [7] - http://www.tux-ce.org/portal/image/tid/13 > [8] - http://www.tux-ce.org/portal/image/tid/7 > > cheers, > > --- > - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib > - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master > - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 > - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro > - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org > - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org > - KDE Brasil Member > - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group > - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 14:32:42 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:32:42 -0300 Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself... In-Reply-To: <4AB8DF8A.7070809-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com> <4AB81EB8.1030409@moores.ca> <1089a0320909220459v64d04c7cs5d852ba42ba3250d@mail.gmail.com> <4AB8DF8A.7070809@moores.ca> Message-ID: <1089a0320909220732i589b016bt57e60c9c9785c401@mail.gmail.com> Haha.. Sorry about that.. ;] --- - ??v? ? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ?ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ?^ ^ ? Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Darryl Moore wrote: > > I might also add Marcelo, that your really cool Tux sig would look a lot > nicer if your emails were plain text rather than html. > > :-) > > cheers, > darryl > > > Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > > Hi Darryl, > > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Darryl Moore > > wrote: > > > > ? ? Hi Marcelo, > > > > ? ? Welcome. > > > > > > Thanks. ;] > > > > > > ? ? I don't think I had heard of Archlinux before. Of course there are so > > ? ? many I can't say that for sure. I am sure I've never heard of the pacman > > ? ? ?package manager. > > > > > > That's strange. Archlinux was born in Canada. It's an amazing distro as > > you can see checking the links [1], [2], [3], [4] and [5]. (Have fun.. > > hehe ;] I really think you'll enjoy it. ) > > > > > > ? ? I'm curious about Tux-CE. Does it have anything to do with bridging > > ? ? between Linux and WinCE? > > > > > > Nothing about WinCE. Actually it's a Free Software Community. I'm one of > > its founders. The CE is because of our state/province in Brazil. Cear?. > > ;] Just that. > > > > We have some projects with digital inclusion focused on free software > > and we do organize events, workshops, install fests, etc. You can check > > some pictures of these projects/events in the links [x], [6], [7] and > > [8]. ;] > > > > > > ? ? Oh, and one last thing. I love your tux graphic in your sig. I am > > ? ? feeling a very strong compulsion to shamelessly steal it. It's great. > > > > > > Don't worry about it. Feel free to use it or modify if you want. ;] > > > > > > ? ? cheers, > > ? ? darryl > > > > > > Links: > > [1] - http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux > > [2] - http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way > > [3] - http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_vs_Others > > [4] - http://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2006/64/ARCH-SIMPLICITY > > [5] - http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20090119#feature > > [6] - http://www.tux-ce.org/portal/image/tid/5 > > [7] - http://www.tux-ce.org/portal/image/tid/13 > > [8] - http://www.tux-ce.org/portal/image/tid/7 > > > > cheers, > > > > --- > > - ??v? ? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib > > - /(_)\ ?ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master > > - ?^ ^ ? Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 > > - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro > > - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org > > - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org > > - KDE Brasil Member > > - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group > > - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 15:08:40 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:08:40 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself... In-Reply-To: <4AB8DF8A.7070809-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com> <4AB81EB8.1030409@moores.ca> <1089a0320909220459v64d04c7cs5d852ba42ba3250d@mail.gmail.com> <4AB8DF8A.7070809@moores.ca> Message-ID: <20090922150840.GX23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:30:34AM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > I might also add Marcelo, that your really cool Tux sig would look a lot > nicer if your emails were plain text rather than html. The emails do have a plain text option, and if your client uses that it looks great. Of course sending text and html is a bit of a bandwidth waste. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 15:13:15 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:13:15 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself... In-Reply-To: <20090922150840.GX23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com> <4AB81EB8.1030409@moores.ca> <1089a0320909220459v64d04c7cs5d852ba42ba3250d@mail.gmail.com> <4AB8DF8A.7070809@moores.ca> <20090922150840.GX23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AB8E98B.6060202@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:30:34AM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > >> I might also add Marcelo, that your really cool Tux sig would look a lot >> nicer if your emails were plain text rather than html. >> > > The emails do have a plain text option, and if your client uses that it > looks great. > > Of course sending text and html is a bit of a bandwidth waste. > > Some email apps, such as Seamonkey, let you specify in your address book which to use. So, even if you prefer HTML, you can still select plain text for mail lists. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 17:15:10 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:15:10 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' Message-ID: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> Interesting but extremely short article, here's a clip, the URL will follow: "Linus Torvalds, founder of the Linux kernel, made a startling comment at LinuxCon in Portland, Ore., on Monday: "Linux is bloated." While the open-source community has long pointed the finger at Microsoft's Windows as bloated, it appears that with success has come added heft, heft that makes Linux "huge and scary now," according to Torvalds. "Has Linux failed?" http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10358024-16.html -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 17:29:35 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:29:35 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB9097F.5070101@utoronto.ca> Michael Lauzon wrote: > Interesting but extremely short article, here's a clip, the URL will follow: > > "Linus Torvalds, founder of the Linux kernel, made a startling comment > at LinuxCon in Portland, Ore., on Monday: "Linux is bloated." While > the open-source community has long pointed the finger at Microsoft's > Windows as bloated, it appears that with success has come added heft, > heft that makes Linux "huge and scary now," according to Torvalds. > > "Has Linux failed?" > > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10358024-16.html If you had to support as much hardware as the kernel does, you'd be bloated too no? Moreover, OSX isn't so tiny either compared to a Debian kernel and my initrd: jamon at phaedrus ~ $ ls -alh /mnt/mach_kernel -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9.9M 2008-09-03 14:32 /mnt/mach_kernel jamon at phaedrus ~ $ ls -alh /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.30-1-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.2M 2009-08-15 14:16 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.30-1-amd64 jamon at phaedrus ~ $ ls -alh /boot/initrd.img-2.6.30-1-amd64 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11M 2009-09-22 12:11 /boot/initrd.img-2.6.30-1-amd64 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 17:39:52 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:39:52 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: <4AB9097F.5070101-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> <4AB9097F.5070101@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20090922173952.GY23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 01:29:35PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > If you had to support as much hardware as the kernel does, you'd be > bloated too no? Moreover, OSX isn't so tiny either compared to a Debian > kernel and my initrd: > > jamon at phaedrus ~ $ ls -alh /mnt/mach_kernel > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9.9M 2008-09-03 14:32 /mnt/mach_kernel That's the i386+ppc version. It's about half that for one architecture. Still, 4MB is a lot for a microkernel isn't it? > jamon at phaedrus ~ $ ls -alh /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.30-1-amd64 > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.2M 2009-08-15 14:16 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.30-1-amd64 > > jamon at phaedrus ~ $ ls -alh /boot/initrd.img-2.6.30-1-amd64 > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11M 2009-09-22 12:11 /boot/initrd.img-2.6.30-1-amd64 -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 17:40:39 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:40:39 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: <4AB9097F.5070101-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> <4AB9097F.5070101@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4AB90C17.6080404@moores.ca> There is always Minix for those who don't want bloat in their kernel, or any one of several uKernels too, like uCOS or FreeRTOS. Of course the trade offs as usual are less support for variety of hardware and less runtime flexibility. Linux has grown from a hacker kernel to a full fledged general purpose operating system. I think the real question is "Is Linux bloated for what it is NOW?" Not what it was when Torvald started. The answer to this question will be in the comparison of it to other OSes like OSX, Windows, Solaris, etc... Don't compare it to what it was. Jamon Camisso wrote: > Michael Lauzon wrote: >> Interesting but extremely short article, here's a clip, the URL will >> follow: >> >> "Linus Torvalds, founder of the Linux kernel, made a startling comment >> at LinuxCon in Portland, Ore., on Monday: "Linux is bloated." While >> the open-source community has long pointed the finger at Microsoft's >> Windows as bloated, it appears that with success has come added heft, >> heft that makes Linux "huge and scary now," according to Torvalds. >> >> "Has Linux failed?" >> >> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10358024-16.html > > If you had to support as much hardware as the kernel does, you'd be > bloated too no? Moreover, OSX isn't so tiny either compared to a Debian > kernel and my initrd: > > jamon at phaedrus ~ $ ls -alh /mnt/mach_kernel > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9.9M 2008-09-03 14:32 /mnt/mach_kernel > > jamon at phaedrus ~ $ ls -alh /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.30-1-amd64 > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.2M 2009-08-15 14:16 /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.30-1-amd64 > > jamon at phaedrus ~ $ ls -alh /boot/initrd.img-2.6.30-1-amd64 > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11M 2009-09-22 12:11 /boot/initrd.img-2.6.30-1-amd64 > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 18:04:28 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:04:28 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: <4AB90C17.6080404-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> <4AB9097F.5070101@utoronto.ca> <4AB90C17.6080404@moores.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Darryl Moore wrote: > There is always Minix for those who don't want bloat in their kernel, or > any one of several uKernels too, like uCOS or FreeRTOS. > > Of course the trade offs as usual are less support for variety of > hardware and less runtime flexibility. The article has some whinging back and forth about the merits of microkernels... I *don't* imagine that NT (the basis for modern Windows) gets terribly much savings out of the fact that since the disk drivers are external modules, someone using IDE disks doesn't need to have driver code for SATA drives loaded... There's the common issue that if you want to be able to "support all things for all people," you need to load in every driver and its three brothers. Thus comes the fairly considerable size of Ubuntu kernels... I have a number of copies of kernels handy; watch the size increases... 2.6.15-26 - 1.5MB 2.6.15-27 - 1.5MB 2.6.15-28 - 1.5MB 2.6.15-29 - 1.5MB 2.6.24-16 - 1.8MB 2.6.24-16 - 1.9MB 2.6.24-19 - 1.9MB The 2.6.20 kernel on a main Debian box at home: 0.8MB Entertainingly: 2.6.30 kernel on my work desktop (debian): 2.2MB There are clearly some variations over time, as well as based on what bits of functionality the gentle user chooses to include or leave out. > Linux has grown from a hacker kernel to a full fledged general purpose > operating system. I think there's something cautionary; Linus hasn't been controlling for size terribly much, and there *is* some risk of bloating of the kernel. I don't think it's overly troublesome at this point; the kernel's only a couple MB, typically, which isn't daunting on machines with >>1GB of memory. > I think the real question is "Is Linux bloated for what it is NOW?" Not > what it was when Torvald started. The answer to this question will be in > the comparison of it to other OSes like OSX, Windows, Solaris, etc... > Don't compare it to what it was. It strikes me that there's a different "bloat" problem out there... I've got a complete OS kernel consisting of less than 2MB of code. In contrast: - My "Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping" text editor, which *is* doing quite a lot (lotta buffers open) is ~42MB in size. I don't strongly object to this; Emacs has grown since the '80s, but it does do more, and it hasn't grown nearly as quickly in footprint as my hardware has grown. - Rather more distressing is OpenOffice.org. 203MB after loading a 1.73MB document. 163MB before... - Also distressing is the bloat of the web browsers. 250MB isn't much... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Joan Crawford - "I, Joan Crawford, I believe in the dollar. Everything I earn, I spend." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/joan_crawford.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 18:20:07 2009 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:20:07 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, Well I haven't previously introduced myself on-list, but this will do. Where do I stand in the Linux community? I've been using Linux, primarily Ubuntu and Fedora, for several years, currently work at Red Hat's Toronto office as an intern, where I am looking primarily at IcedTea, an OpenJDK-based implementation of Java. And I couldn't resist responding to this post! :D Matt Asay's opinion pieces on open source software are frequently off the mark. This is not a news article, it is a blog post. Here is some IMO slightly better coverage of the conversation: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/22/linus_torvalds_linux_bloated_huge/ For those who don't wish to read, I'll include a quote that put the bloat comment in a bit more context. Linus said: "The kernel is huge and bloated, and our icache footprint is scary. I mean, there is no question about that. And whenever we add a new feature, it only gets worse." So yes, the kernel grows as new features are added. But he did not describe Linux as a whole as "huge and scary"; in fact, it appears that Asay has paraphrased, while giving the incorrect impression that this was a direct quote. Besides, for anyone who cares about kernel bloat/icache size, they probably have the know-how to roll their own kernel from source with only the features they need. This certainly is not a sign that Linux has failed!! cheers, jon On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > Interesting but extremely short article, here's a clip, the URL will > follow: > > "Linus Torvalds, founder of the Linux kernel, made a startling comment > at LinuxCon in Portland, Ore., on Monday: "Linux is bloated." While > the open-source community has long pointed the finger at Microsoft's > Windows as bloated, it appears that with success has come added heft, > heft that makes Linux "huge and scary now," according to Torvalds. > > "Has Linux failed?" > > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10358024-16.html > > -- > Sincerely, > > Michael Lauzon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 18:24:03 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:24:03 -0400 Subject: remote backup options Message-ID: <4AB91643.9010403@moores.ca> Hey all, I'm investigating options for remote backups. I have a couple of linux servers with a few G of data I'd like to backup. The networks are NFS rather than SMB so file permissions and ownership matter. backblaze is cool and really cheap, but they only support windows and mac, and I have no idea about servers instead of desktops. Ideally I'd like to use rsnapshop, which uses rsync and hard links to make incremental backups. Are there any backup service providers that support rsync/linux backups? cheers, darryl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 18:28:49 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:28:49 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB91761.7030309@moores.ca> Hi Jon, Maybe I'm a purist, or simply thick, but the difference between Linux and the Linux kernel is exactly what? Jon VanAlten wrote: > > So yes, the kernel grows as new features are added. But he did not > describe Linux as a whole as "huge and scary"; in fact, it appears that > Asay has paraphrased, while giving the incorrect impression that this > was a direct quote. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 18:30:13 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:30:13 -0700 Subject: remote backup options In-Reply-To: <4AB91643.9010403-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB91643.9010403@moores.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420909221130j66c164f7sa21f0885982e66d8@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Darryl Moore wrote: > Hey all, I'm investigating options for remote backups. > > I have a couple of linux servers with a few G of data I'd like to > backup. The networks are NFS rather than SMB so file permissions and > ownership matter. > > backblaze is cool and really cheap, but they only support windows and > mac, and I have no idea about servers instead of desktops. > > Ideally I'd like to use rsnapshop, which uses rsync and hard links to > make incremental backups. Are there any backup service providers that > support rsync/linux backups? Never used 'em, but these guys seem good: http://rsync.net Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 18:42:33 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:42:33 -0400 Subject: remote backup options In-Reply-To: <7ac602420909221130j66c164f7sa21f0885982e66d8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB91643.9010403@moores.ca> <7ac602420909221130j66c164f7sa21f0885982e66d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB91A99.9020302@moores.ca> Thanks, they look like they should fit the bill quite nicely. cheers, darryl Ian Petersen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Darryl Moore wrote: >> Hey all, I'm investigating options for remote backups. >> >> I have a couple of linux servers with a few G of data I'd like to >> backup. The networks are NFS rather than SMB so file permissions and >> ownership matter. >> >> backblaze is cool and really cheap, but they only support windows and >> mac, and I have no idea about servers instead of desktops. >> >> Ideally I'd like to use rsnapshop, which uses rsync and hard links to >> make incremental backups. Are there any backup service providers that >> support rsync/linux backups? > > Never used 'em, but these guys seem good: http://rsync.net > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 18:59:36 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:59:36 -0400 Subject: remote backup options In-Reply-To: <4AB91643.9010403-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB91643.9010403@moores.ca> Message-ID: <20090922185936.GZ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 02:24:03PM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > Hey all, I'm investigating options for remote backups. > > I have a couple of linux servers with a few G of data I'd like to > backup. The networks are NFS rather than SMB so file permissions and > ownership matter. > > backblaze is cool and really cheap, but they only support windows and > mac, and I have no idea about servers instead of desktops. > > Ideally I'd like to use rsnapshop, which uses rsync and hard links to > make incremental backups. Are there any backup service providers that > support rsync/linux backups? rsnapshot is really only efficient if you run it on a local disk. It would be awful on a remote disk. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 19:03:20 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:03:20 -0400 Subject: remote backup options In-Reply-To: <20090922185936.GZ23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB91643.9010403@moores.ca> <20090922185936.GZ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AB91F78.7000906@moores.ca> I'm curious why you say that. rsnapshot is basically a bunch of scripts that uses rsync and hard linking to to create incremental backups. Please explain. cheers, darryl Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 02:24:03PM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: >> Hey all, I'm investigating options for remote backups. >> >> I have a couple of linux servers with a few G of data I'd like to >> backup. The networks are NFS rather than SMB so file permissions and >> ownership matter. >> >> backblaze is cool and really cheap, but they only support windows and >> mac, and I have no idea about servers instead of desktops. >> >> Ideally I'd like to use rsnapshop, which uses rsync and hard links to >> make incremental backups. Are there any backup service providers that >> support rsync/linux backups? > > rsnapshot is really only efficient if you run it on a local disk. > It would be awful on a remote disk. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 20:01:44 2009 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:01:44 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: <4AB91761.7030309-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> <4AB91761.7030309@moores.ca> Message-ID: Hi Darryl, I should have known that semantics would matter on a list full of linux nerds (I include myself, and mean that in the best possible way!) So, wrt my poorly constructed paragraph: s/kernel/Linux, the kernel,/ s/Linux as a whole/entire Linux-based OS distributions (to which Asay has assigned the misnomer Linux in his blog entry's update)/ :D jon On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Darryl Moore wrote: > Hi Jon, > > Maybe I'm a purist, or simply thick, but the difference between Linux > and the Linux kernel is exactly what? > > Jon VanAlten wrote: > > > > So yes, the kernel grows as new features are added. But he did not > > describe Linux as a whole as "huge and scary"; in fact, it appears that > > Asay has paraphrased, while giving the incorrect impression that this > > was a direct quote. > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 20:16:40 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:16:40 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> <4AB91761.7030309@moores.ca> Message-ID: <4AB930A8.8010709@moores.ca> :-) Sorry Jon I didn't RTFA. Does the blog refer to Linux in terms of a distribution or in terms of a kernel? The general impression I got from the posts, and the specific impression I got from Christopher's email is that we were only talking about the kernel here. That's the only reason I was splitting semantic hairs. cheers, darryl Jon VanAlten wrote: > Hi Darryl, > > I should have known that semantics would matter on a list full of linux > nerds (I include myself, and mean that in the best possible way!) > > So, wrt my poorly constructed paragraph: > > s/kernel/Linux, the kernel,/ > > s/Linux as a whole/entire Linux-based OS distributions (to which Asay > has assigned the misnomer Linux in his blog entry's update)/ > > :D > > jon > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Darryl Moore > wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > Maybe I'm a purist, or simply thick, but the difference between Linux > and the Linux kernel is exactly what? > > Jon VanAlten wrote: > > > > So yes, the kernel grows as new features are added. But he did not > > describe Linux as a whole as "huge and scary"; in fact, it appears > that > > Asay has paraphrased, while giving the incorrect impression that this > > was a direct quote. > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 20:47:11 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:47:11 -0700 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: <4AB91761.7030309-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> <4AB91761.7030309@moores.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0909221347v69eacf59nd5a5841cc08acb41@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Darryl Moore wrote: > Hi Jon, > > Maybe I'm a purist, or simply thick, but the difference between Linux > and the Linux kernel is exactly what? > > Jon VanAlten wrote: >> >> So yes, the kernel grows as new features are added. ?But he did not >> describe Linux as a whole as "huge and scary"; in fact, it appears that >> Asay has paraphrased, while giving the incorrect impression that this >> was a direct quote. >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Hmm. Well Linux in general would include both some userland and kernel stuff. When most people think about 'nix they also think about commonly used FOSS software, like X-Windows, Apache, etc. I'd say that in terms of usability both are a factor too. Kernel-bloating isn't a good thing (but it *can* be lessened by re-rolling a kernel without extraneous stuff, say removing ISA or IDE support on some newer machines, etc). Am I reading this wrong? Yes, fixing bugs or security issues may add to the kernel proper. But overall general features can still be managed by only including the essentials and/or making good use of loadable modules. There's not really a windows equivalent in those (or really a non-FOSS equivalent). It's the applications and userland stuff I find more irritating. A bloaty kernel I can work around by including stuff I don't need in the kernel itself, making better use of modules, etc. I can't do as much about bloaty memory-leaking issues with firefox/quanta/openoffice, though choosing a lighter WM is also an option to reduce impact resource consumption in userland. In windows there are some equivalents as you can do things like turning off graphical fluff, setting, avoiding tray-apps/TSR's, or on Vista etc turning off aero. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 20:48:09 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:48:09 -0400 Subject: remote backup options In-Reply-To: <4AB91F78.7000906-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB91643.9010403@moores.ca> <20090922185936.GZ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB91F78.7000906@moores.ca> Message-ID: <20090922204809.GA23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 03:03:20PM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > I'm curious why you say that. rsnapshot is basically a bunch of scripts > that uses rsync and hard linking to to create incremental backups. Well if the remote offers you an NFS mount, then it might work ok. I don't think it can work at all if the protocol is rsync. I use rsnapshot a lot, and it does a great job, but it is not a backup tool, it is a way to efficiently store file changes for easy recovery from screwups. It does not replace backups at all, but is a great companion to a backup system. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 20:54:18 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:54:18 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: <4AB91761.7030309-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> <4AB91761.7030309@moores.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Darryl Moore wrote: > Maybe I'm a purist, or simply thick, but the difference between Linux > and the Linux kernel is exactly what? In the "old days," the GNU System was to consist of the combination of a kernel (which they never really got finished writing) as well as user space applications. People actively use the term "Linux" to refer to 3 things: a) A certain kernel which is definitely distinct from other kernels (e.g. - *BSD, Minix, Solaris, ...) b) Collections of computer software that *include* the kernel mentioned in a) c) Software that happens to be able to run atop the kernel mentioned in a). Commonly missing the fact that: i) that the software often runs perfectly well on other "flavours" like BSD, Solaris, ... ii) that the software may even run perfectly well on systems demonstrably NOT much like Linux (e.g. - Windows) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Charles de Gaulle - "The better I get to know men, the more I find myself loving dogs." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/charles_de_gaulle.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 20:55:17 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:55:17 -0400 Subject: remote backup options In-Reply-To: <20090922204809.GA23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB91643.9010403@moores.ca> <20090922185936.GZ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB91F78.7000906@moores.ca> <20090922204809.GA23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AB939B5.7040908@moores.ca> I seriously don't think we are talking about the same think here. http://rsnapshot.org/ You are completely wrong about using NFS over the internet. Besides the data loss issues if you lose the connection, you have other issues with unencrypted traffic and poor bandwidth use. cheers, darryl Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 03:03:20PM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: >> I'm curious why you say that. rsnapshot is basically a bunch of scripts >> that uses rsync and hard linking to to create incremental backups. > > Well if the remote offers you an NFS mount, then it might work ok. > I don't think it can work at all if the protocol is rsync. > > I use rsnapshot a lot, and it does a great job, but it is not a backup > tool, it is a way to efficiently store file changes for easy recovery > from screwups. It does not replace backups at all, but is a great > companion to a backup system. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 20:56:39 2009 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:56:39 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: <4AB930A8.8010709-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> <4AB91761.7030309@moores.ca> <4AB930A8.8010709@moores.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Darryl Moore wrote: > :-) > > Sorry Jon I didn't RTFA. No need to be, and you're better off keeping it that way! ;-) > Does the blog refer to Linux in terms of a > distribution or in terms of a kernel? > Well from what I can tell Linus was talking in a round table about the kernel, but the blog (whose author makes me want to tear my hair out frequently, and which I am sure was purely based on the short article I linked) made it out to be referring to distributions, or at the least was not clear about it and then used it to segue into his own commentary about bloat in distros. For folks not truly familiar with Linux or the internals of operating systems in general, which surely there are some such folks in the set of CNET readers, my thought is that people would think it was the whole system becoming bloated. Which is the root of my problems with the post. (note my problem is with Asay and not the Michael who posted it to this list!!) Also notably missing from Asay's blog post was the part where Linus stated that the size and performance bloat in the kernel was "unacceptable but it's also probably unavoidable". Myself I'd like to do some googling tonight and see if I can find a more complete record of the round table, see who else was on the panel and what interesting tidbits might be there. > > That's the only reason I was splitting semantic hairs. > > Really, no worries! :D It's always good to be checked for clarity. jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 20:58:37 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:58:37 -0400 Subject: OT: Domain expiring, anyone want to take it over? Message-ID: <4AB93A7D.9040000@alteeve.com> Hi all, Not sure if this is of any interest to anyone here, but I had plans to create a "code to code" project last year. It never got off the ground, so I'm not going to bother renewing the domain. If anyone wants to take it over, let me know and I'll transfer it to you. The domain is "codetocode.net". It's registered until December, but if anyone wants it they can have it now. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 21:57:47 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:57:47 -0400 Subject: remote backup options In-Reply-To: <4AB939B5.7040908-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB91643.9010403@moores.ca> <20090922185936.GZ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB91F78.7000906@moores.ca> <20090922204809.GA23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB939B5.7040908@moores.ca> Message-ID: <20090922215747.GB23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 04:55:17PM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > I seriously don't think we are talking about the same think here. > > http://rsnapshot.org/ Yes that is what I am talking about. Last I checked the options it certainly didn't look like ti would work well with a remote target. Maybe they have changed that. I suppose if you do a pull from the target to backup, to the backup server, then that would solve that problem, but then you have to find a backup service that runs rsnapshot on the server. > You are completely wrong about using NFS over the internet. Besides the > data loss issues if you lose the connection, you have other issues with > unencrypted traffic and poor bandwidth use. I wouldn't run NFS over the internet. It would be crazy. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 22:13:22 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:13:22 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> <4AB91761.7030309@moores.ca> <4AB930A8.8010709@moores.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Jon VanAlten wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Darryl Moore wrote: >> >> :-) >> >> Sorry Jon I didn't RTFA. > > No need to be, and you're better off keeping it that way!? ;-) > >> >> Does the blog refer to Linux in terms of a >> distribution or in terms of a kernel? > > Well from what I can tell Linus was talking in a round table about the > kernel, but the blog (whose author makes me want to tear my hair out > frequently, and which I am sure was purely based on the short article I > linked) made it out to be referring to distributions, or at the least was > not clear about it and then used it to segue into his own commentary about > bloat in distros.? For folks not truly familiar with Linux or the internals > of operating systems in general, which surely there are some such folks in > the set of CNET readers, my thought is that people would think it was the > whole system becoming bloated.? Which is the root of my problems with the > post.? (note my problem is with Asay and not the Michael who posted it to > this list!!) While it may not be legitimate to draw such conclusions based on the discussion involving Linus, it seems to me that there *ARE* strong arguments to be made to the effect that the entire systems are becoming bloated. - I've got 79MB of "stuff" in /lib (on host "wolfe"), of which 65MB are kernel modules. That's quite a bit of stuff, and the kernel isn't innocent! - /usr/lib has 1.3GB of stuff. That's by no means "small." There's a LOT of stuff there. More stuff than I have memory, and if those are supposed to be shared libraries for apps I'm running, there's *something* conceptually busted there... Several of us were chatting about this the other week at "no beer we're outside." Something has in effect gone wrong that we have libraries that are some combination of insufficiently stable with perhaps other things such that there are just gratuitous layerings of extra library upon extra library cluttering up our systems. We have historically been somewhat better-off than Windows folks where they have had the habit of getting side-swiped by library changes. "Oh, you want to run that new app? Well, we'll be overwriting some libraries for you, thereby breaking the old apps!" We tend to have more or less legitimate version numbers that allow us to have co-existing versions of libraries. Historically, a "fun" Linux distribution has been orc's Mastodon: http://mastodon.biz/ "My Linux distribution, which features a primarily BSD Unix userland, a completely a.out set of systems programs (to avoid the wonderland of gl*bc backwards incompatability), and a lot of experimental things I'm playing with." GLIBC, which mayn't be the kernel, but which *IS* the interface that practically everything else uses to access the Linux kernel, has been growing into something of a monster. Orc (aka David Parsons) was griping about this a dozen years ago and I preferred to consider him a bit of a crackpot back then. In retrospect, he mayn't have been quite as wrong as we imagined. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Ted Turner - "Sports is like a war without the killing." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/ted_turner.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 22:20:12 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:20:12 -0400 Subject: remote backup options In-Reply-To: <20090922215747.GB23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB91643.9010403@moores.ca> <20090922185936.GZ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB91F78.7000906@moores.ca> <20090922204809.GA23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB939B5.7040908@moores.ca> <20090922215747.GB23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AB94D9C.80307@moores.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 04:55:17PM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: >> I seriously don't think we are talking about the same think here. >> >> http://rsnapshot.org/ > > Yes that is what I am talking about. Last I checked the options it > certainly didn't look like ti would work well with a remote target. I think you'll have to explain yourself here. It communicates with the remote server via rsync. Rsync was designed to be efficient at replicating files over a distance. > Maybe they have changed that. don't you know? You said you used it a lot. > I suppose if you do a pull from the target > to backup, to the backup server, then that would solve that problem, but > then you have to find a backup service that runs rsnapshot on the server. > What is the problem that needs solving exactly? I believe the server only needs to run rsync in server mode. The rsnapshot utilities are run on the system to be backed up. Are you still sure we are talking about the same thing? >> You are completely wrong about using NFS over the internet. Besides the >> data loss issues if you lose the connection, you have other issues with >> unencrypted traffic and poor bandwidth use. > > I wouldn't run NFS over the internet. It would be crazy. > Then why did you say "Well if the remote offers you an NFS mount, then it might work ok."? I think I'm going to go have a little lie down now -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 22:24:52 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:24:52 -0400 Subject: OT:Website Optimization - O'Rielly book Message-ID: I really don't know anything about SEO, but I am wondering if anyone has read the 'Website Optimization' O'Rielly book or anything similar? Your thoughts, is this something I can do myself or is it better to pay someone to SEO your website. Just considering this as an option. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 22:25:20 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:25:20 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: <20090922173952.GY23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> <4AB9097F.5070101@utoronto.ca> <20090922173952.GY23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AB94ED0.1090604@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 01:29:35PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> If you had to support as much hardware as the kernel does, you'd be >> bloated too no? Moreover, OSX isn't so tiny either compared to a Debian >> kernel and my initrd: >> >> jamon at phaedrus ~ $ ls -alh /mnt/mach_kernel >> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9.9M 2008-09-03 14:32 /mnt/mach_kernel > > That's the i386+ppc version. It's about half that for one architecture. > Still, 4MB is a lot for a microkernel isn't it? True. Though 64bit Linux can run x86 code so.. :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 22:31:53 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:31:53 -0400 Subject: remote backup options In-Reply-To: <4AB94D9C.80307-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB91643.9010403@moores.ca> <20090922185936.GZ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB91F78.7000906@moores.ca> <20090922204809.GA23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB939B5.7040908@moores.ca> <20090922215747.GB23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB94D9C.80307@moores.ca> Message-ID: <20090922223153.GC23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 06:20:12PM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > I think you'll have to explain yourself here. It communicates with the > remote server via rsync. Rsync was designed to be efficient at > replicating files over a distance. Yes but I don't think rsync has an option for doing what rsnapshot wants to do, which is rename the last target, then run with that renamed target as the hardlink source for unchanged files while rsyncing a new target. That is what rsnapshot does. rsync certainly can do it when the destination and previous target are on the localhost, and the source of the rsync files is the remote machine. I don't think it can do it in the other direction, although it might. > don't you know? You said you used it a lot. Yes but I also run debian stable on servers, which means using whatever version of rsnapshot it includes. > What is the problem that needs solving exactly? I believe the server > only needs to run rsync in server mode. The rsnapshot utilities are run > on the system to be backed up. > > Are you still sure we are talking about the same thing? > > Then why did you say "Well if the remote offers you an NFS mount, then > it might work ok."? NFS would at least be a disk allowing the rename and hardlink trick to be treated as local that I know rsync supports. Specifically rsync's --link-dest option takes a directory, not another remote rsync target. That's what makes me think rsnapshot can't do that to a remote box, while rsnapshot can pull from a remote box. It would be a nice setup to configure rsnapshot on a backup server to pull the backup data from all the clients machines to a central spot, compared to configuring each client to try and push their backups to a central backup server. Of course the fact the rsnapshot config file always shows a local filesystem as the backup target, and has lots of ways to specify local and remote machines as the source for the files seems to backup my understanding. That's from version 1.3.x though, not 1.4.x. Checking the man page for the current version doesn't change that part though. The target of the backup is always a local disk, while the source can be local or remote. Hence the only way to use a remote storage would be to treat it like a local disk, such as with NFS (which is a bad idea in this case). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 22:42:20 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:42:20 -0400 Subject: OT:Website Optimization - O'Rielly book In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB952CC.1080302@utoronto.ca> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I really don't know anything about SEO, but I am wondering if anyone > has read the 'Website Optimization' O'Rielly book or anything similar? > Your thoughts, is this something I can do myself or is it better to > pay someone to SEO your website. Just considering this as an option. Content is king. Links from other sites to your page(s) are a search engine's main way of measuring the relevance of your page. Look at how major foss cms systems do things, and perhaps include an xml sitemap (lots of cmses like wordpress, drupal) will generate a sitemap for you to submit to google, yahoo etc. Don't drink the seo kool-aid until you have a tangible problem that having just plain old good content can't solve. My $0.02. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 23:45:12 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:45:12 -0300 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=5BTLUG=5D=3A_OT=3AO=B4Really_User_Groups_=2D_Books_for_free?= Message-ID: <1089a0320909221645p7f86c3a6g645fc11dbf239bcc@mail.gmail.com> Hi guys... Well.. this is a OT..so, why not write about O?Reilly.. I?m not sure if you guys know, but O?Reilly has a good program to collaborate with user groups. In this program the group is sponsored by O?Reilly. They send the books you want and on the other hand.. The group?s website may keep an small O?Reilly?s banner. My user group in Brasil (Tux-CE) is on this program. Every three months we order ~3 books. YEAH.. For free! Even the ship. I?m new here so im not sure about your case. In our case in my community, we keep these books as a small library to our user group and keep changing the books with the other members. But, you can choose the best way for your (TLUG) case. Take a look at this link: http://ug.oreilly.com/ `R`$ 0,002 cheers On 9/22/09, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > I really don't know anything about SEO, but I am wondering if anyone > > has read the 'Website Optimization' O'Rielly book or anything similar? > > Your thoughts, is this something I can do myself or is it better to > > pay someone to SEO your website. Just considering this as an option. > > > > Content is king. Links from other sites to your page(s) are a search > engine's main way of measuring the relevance of your page. Look at how major > foss cms systems do things, and perhaps include an xml sitemap (lots of > cmses like wordpress, drupal) will generate a sitemap for you to submit to > google, yahoo etc. > > Don't drink the seo kool-aid until you have a tangible problem that having > just plain old good content can't solve. > > My $0.02. > > Jamon > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.??????Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- --- -???v??? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\??ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master -??^ ^?? Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 22 23:42:38 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:42:38 -0400 Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090922194238.f7eb89a5.hgibson@eol.ca> On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:15:10 -0400 Michael Lauzon wrote: > Interesting but extremely short article, here's a clip, the URL will follow: > > "Linus Torvalds, founder of the Linux kernel, made a startling comment > at LinuxCon in Portland, Ore., on Monday: "Linux is bloated." While > the open-source community has long pointed the finger at Microsoft's > Windows as bloated, it appears that with success has come added heft, > heft that makes Linux "huge and scary now," according to Torvalds. > > "Has Linux failed?" Michael, Yes, Linux is bloated. Perhaps, just as bloated as Windows. It should theoretically be possible to create a distro that would allow me to do everything I do now, and take up a quarter to half the disk space. The only problem with it is that it would not meet your requirements. I remember running Linux on a 486DX266 with 20MB RAM. Fat chance of that now. It is a good thing disk drives are bigger, cheaper and faster. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 02:12:02 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:12:02 -0400 Subject: Suggestions for new computer Message-ID: <32f6a8880909221912v18731bbdo94cfa4a26c8c1fd7@mail.gmail.com> I'm looking to buy a new PC, that can be ran with mythtv and has the power to do video encoding and audio encoding. It's going to be my multimedia center including using music with coaxial output, the problem I'm finding is that most of these motherboards only have 2 PCI regular slots... If even that, alot of them only have pci express slots. Which leads me to questions like: Are there pci express slots that can do serial for ir blaster and ir remote? Are there PCI express tuners that can be found that will work with rogers digital cable or satellite tv or even Digital over the air? Are regular PCI slot being phased out completely now? Any suggestions would be helpful. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 06:29:11 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 02:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Suggestions for new computer In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880909221912v18731bbdo94cfa4a26c8c1fd7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880909221912v18731bbdo94cfa4a26c8c1fd7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Dave Germiquet | I'm looking to buy a new PC, that can be ran with mythtv and has the | power to do video encoding and audio encoding. My MythTV box is an old PC. With 5 PCI slots and 5 tuner cards. | It's going to be my multimedia center including using music with | coaxial output, the problem I'm finding is that most of these | motherboards only have 2 PCI regular slots... | If even that, alot of them only have pci express slots. | | Which leads me to questions like: | | Are there pci express slots that can do serial for ir blaster and ir | remote? You could use USB for serial, I expect. Not sure because I don't know if the serial port needs to be abused for this purpose (eg. run at a non-standard speed). | Are there PCI express tuners Yes. I don't know how well-supported they are by MythTV. Here's one PCI-e card with two tuners. I have not looked to see if MythTV supports it: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=33859&vpn=1229&manufacture=HAUPPAUGE | that can be found that will work | with rogers digital cable or satellite tv [Answering as if you asked about PCI cards] Not as one would hope. Because of encryption of these signals, you have to hook up your tuner via analogue, not digital. With cable, you can use the tuner card to select any of the low-numbered analogue SD signals. For other signals, you need to connect the tuner card to the analogue out of the set-top box. And use an IR Blaster to select channels. There are things that can grab analogue HD out from a set-top box but I don't know much about them. I think that this is one that should work (at this instance it is $199.99 + shipping, which is as good a price as I've seen): http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=30194&vpn=1219&manufacture=HAUPPAUGE A tuner supporting QAM should work on cable for HD, except for the encryption. In the US, the FCC forbids encryption of local channels on cable. | or even Digital over the | air? Local HD channels can be picked up via an antenna. They are not encrypted. Look for a tuner with ATSC support. | Are regular PCI slot being phased out completely now? Looks like it. For example, the Intel chipsets for the i7 don't support PCI (as I understand it). | Any suggestions would be helpful. "They" are trying to close off the ways myth can get signals. Half done, so far. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 11:12:18 2009 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 07:12:18 -0400 Subject: OT: Welcome (Was: Re: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated') In-Reply-To: ; from vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 14:20:07 -0400 References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090923111218.GC1884@localhost> On Tue Sep 22,2009 02:20:07 PM Jon VanAlten wrote: > Well I haven't previously introduced myself on-list, but this will > do. Jon, Welcome to the list. Speaking of bloat: I would respectfully appreciate it if you would honour the list guidlines and not include HTML formatting in your posts. (Though the psuedo HTML, e.g. , is ok.) ;-) If you're using the GMail client, there should be a link labeled "Plain text" at the top of the text entry box, that you can click on. Regards, Scott -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 13:04:51 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:04:51 -0400 Subject: remote backup options In-Reply-To: <20090922223153.GC23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB91643.9010403@moores.ca> <20090922185936.GZ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB91F78.7000906@moores.ca> <20090922204809.GA23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB939B5.7040908@moores.ca> <20090922215747.GB23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB94D9C.80307@moores.ca> <20090922223153.GC23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4ABA1CF3.7070700@moores.ca> Thanks, yes after looking into it a bit more I see some of the issues. The backup server does indeed need to run some scripts which means the service provider needs to explicitly support it, or allow you ssh login and allow you to run your own scripts. rsync.net does allow ssh login, but I'm not sure about user script support. They do however explicitly support duplicity, which with a little finagling I was able to get working on a jaunty box. I think this may be my best solution. At least WRT this service provider. I still do not agree that rsnapshot is not good for remote backups. It is promoted for this purpose and with rsync and ssh it should work well. cheers, darryl Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 06:20:12PM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: >> I think you'll have to explain yourself here. It communicates with the >> remote server via rsync. Rsync was designed to be efficient at >> replicating files over a distance. > > Yes but I don't think rsync has an option for doing what rsnapshot wants > to do, which is rename the last target, then run with that renamed target > as the hardlink source for unchanged files while rsyncing a new target. > That is what rsnapshot does. rsync certainly can do it when the > destination and previous target are on the localhost, and the source of > the rsync files is the remote machine. I don't think it can do it in > the other direction, although it might. > >> don't you know? You said you used it a lot. > > Yes but I also run debian stable on servers, which means using whatever > version of rsnapshot it includes. > >> What is the problem that needs solving exactly? I believe the server >> only needs to run rsync in server mode. The rsnapshot utilities are run >> on the system to be backed up. >> >> Are you still sure we are talking about the same thing? >> >> Then why did you say "Well if the remote offers you an NFS mount, then >> it might work ok."? > > NFS would at least be a disk allowing the rename and hardlink trick to > be treated as local that I know rsync supports. > > Specifically rsync's --link-dest option takes a directory, not another > remote rsync target. That's what makes me think rsnapshot can't do that > to a remote box, while rsnapshot can pull from a remote box. It would > be a nice setup to configure rsnapshot on a backup server to pull the > backup data from all the clients machines to a central spot, compared > to configuring each client to try and push their backups to a central > backup server. > > Of course the fact the rsnapshot config file always shows a local > filesystem as the backup target, and has lots of ways to specify local > and remote machines as the source for the files seems to backup my > understanding. That's from version 1.3.x though, not 1.4.x. Checking > the man page for the current version doesn't change that part though. > The target of the backup is always a local disk, while the source can > be local or remote. Hence the only way to use a remote storage would > be to treat it like a local disk, such as with NFS (which is a bad idea > in this case). > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 14:18:54 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:18:54 -0400 Subject: Suggestions for new computer In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880909221912v18731bbdo94cfa4a26c8c1fd7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880909221912v18731bbdo94cfa4a26c8c1fd7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ahhh... MythTV my favourite resource pig :-) . On 9/22/09, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I'm looking to buy a new PC, that can be ran with mythtv and has the > power to do video encoding and audio encoding. My main MythTV box (a frontend/backend) is based on an AMD Athlon 3200+ CPU and this is as low as you want to go and still be able to handle HDTV. This means that with the exception of the low cost, low power consumption, and low performance Intel Atom CPU chips any current generation desktop CPU chip should be fine. > It's going to be my multimedia center including using music with > coaxial output, the problem I'm finding is that most of these > motherboards only have 2 PCI regular slots... > If even that, alot of them only have pci express slots. There are some PCI Express tuner cards that subject to conditions are supported under MythTV, such as the Hauppauge HVR-1250 and HVR-2250: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_HVR-1250 http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_HVR-2250 > Which leads me to questions like: > > Are there pci express slots that can do serial for ir blaster and ir > remote? Are there PCI express tuners that can be found that will work > with rogers digital cable or satellite tv or even Digital over the > air? IR receive can be done several ways, the above Hauppauge cards do it, there are USB IR receivers, and if you have a "real" serial port (not a USB to serial interface) there are simple IR receiver plans out there like: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8811 For IR blasting, the Hauppauge HVR-2250 does do it, conditionally (there are two versions of the HVR-2250 out there, one version does IR blasting, but not both...). Also there is a range of USB and serial options. You are laughing with digital TV over the air, as there are quite a number of options available. The Hauppauge cards note above will do fine with over the air digital TV. Rogers digital cable is a @#$% mess. The problem is that Rogers encrypts all digital signals. There have been some Rogers digital boxes that will but out an unencrypted digital signal on Firewire (meaning you would need to find one of those boxes and get a Linux supported firewire card), ugly but workable. Otherwise you need an analog capture card connected to the analog connection on the digital box, with an IR blaster to control the box, ugly in every way. Satellite TV is a mixed bag. For the likes of Bell Express View there are some receiver boxes that do put a digital signal out on Firewire. There some free-to-air satellite TV stations whose signals can be dealt with by some MythTV compatible cards... > Are regular PCI slot being phased out completely now? Not sure. I do know that there are some external tuner solutions that get very good reviews in the MythTV community, like the Silicondust HDHomeRun: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Silicondust_HDHomeRun The HDHomeRun does over-the-air digital TV to ethernet (neat trick, so you can locate your MythTV box well away from your tuners as long as you have a suitable network connection :-) ). > Any suggestions would be helpful. Well, I have a box with 3 PCI slots, currently I have 2 PCI tuner cards installed (one analog connected to Rogers cable and one digital connected to a roof mounted antenna). I can get most of the Buffalo NY digital stations reliably and on a good day I can get some of the Rodchester NY digital stations, this from near Yonge and Eglinton. Stuff that I would pay attention to includes looking for a video card that offers VDPAU support, where the video card takes on a lot of the work associated with video decode. Details can be seen here: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU Currently MythTV support for video card with VDPAU is still in testing. Still a basic video card that does VDPAU doesn't cost much more than a non-VDPAU card. Until VDPAU support is mainstream, the VDPAU card will be a very capable card, which hopefully soon will be able to support a neat trick... Have a look at the local MythTV web page (most of which I did :-) ): http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/MythTV Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 14:24:33 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:24:33 -0400 Subject: Suggestions for new computer In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880909221912v18731bbdo94cfa4a26c8c1fd7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570909230724y1f338a56we30f6acbb25c6f61@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 02:29, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > Looks like it. ?For example, the Intel chipsets for the i7 don't > support PCI (as I understand it). I have a Rampage II Extreme which is a Ci7 board, it has one PCI slot, and a lot of the Ci7 boards seem to have either 1 or 2 legacy PCI slots, have yet to see a board without a PCI slot. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 14:42:32 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated' In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570909221015o3ba0b312wa8f9d09cf2b14ccd@mail.gmail.com> <4AB9097F.5070101@utoronto.ca> <4AB90C17.6080404@moores.ca> Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | - Also distressing is the bloat of the web browsers. 250MB isn't much... Firefox isn't bad. Not at all. Here are some presents it recently left me. $ ls -ltr core.* -rw-------. 1 hugh hugh 1669668864 2009-09-12 02:17 core.2981 -rw-------. 1 hugh hugh 1280552960 2009-09-20 14:23 core.2978 -rw-------. 1 hugh hugh 1408999424 2009-09-21 15:33 core.12617 -rw-------. 1 hugh hugh 1408507904 2009-09-22 17:54 core.5627 If only I could find where the bug is in each 1.x GiB lump. (The last 3 were segfaults.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 14:56:15 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:56:15 -0400 Subject: remote backup options In-Reply-To: <4ABA1CF3.7070700-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB91643.9010403@moores.ca> <20090922185936.GZ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB91F78.7000906@moores.ca> <20090922204809.GA23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB939B5.7040908@moores.ca> <20090922215747.GB23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AB94D9C.80307@moores.ca> <20090922223153.GC23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4ABA1CF3.7070700@moores.ca> Message-ID: <20090923145615.GD23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 09:04:51AM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > Thanks, yes after looking into it a bit more I see some of the issues. > The backup server does indeed need to run some scripts which means the > service provider needs to explicitly support it, or allow you ssh login > and allow you to run your own scripts. > > rsync.net does allow ssh login, but I'm not sure about user script > support. They do however explicitly support duplicity, which with a > little finagling I was able to get working on a jaunty box. I think this > may be my best solution. At least WRT this service provider. > > I still do not agree that rsnapshot is not good for remote backups. It > is promoted for this purpose and with rsync and ssh it should work well. Well it is good for remote backups, but by that they mean backing up a remote machine to the local backup server that is running rsnapshot. They do not mean running rsnapshot to send your backup to a remote location. The intent is a centralized backup server that runs rsnapshot to do all the backups for all the remote boxes. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 17:54:07 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:54:07 -0400 Subject: Suggestions for new computer In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880909221912v18731bbdo94cfa4a26c8c1fd7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880909221912v18731bbdo94cfa4a26c8c1fd7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090923175407.GE23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:12:02PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I'm looking to buy a new PC, that can be ran with mythtv and has the > power to do video encoding and audio encoding. Well my Q6600 based mythtv box certainly does that well. A more efficient dual or quad core would be possible now which would make for a cooler and quieter box. > It's going to be my multimedia center including using music with > coaxial output, the problem I'm finding is that most of these > motherboards only have 2 PCI regular slots... > If even that, alot of them only have pci express slots. If you avoid microATX then you get lots of slots, but you need a bigger case (which also allows room for HDs. Mine has room for 6 in the HTPC case). > Which leads me to questions like: > > Are there pci express slots that can do serial for ir blaster and ir > remote? Are there PCI express tuners that can be found that will work > with rogers digital cable or satellite tv or even Digital over the > air? Satelate: no Rogers digital cable: no Over the air: yes For serial, there is always the USB to serial adapters as an option. My HTPC case has a built in receiver for the remote which is USB based directly. > Are regular PCI slot being phased out completely now? Getting there. > Any suggestions would be helpful. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 19:20:03 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:20:03 -0400 Subject: OT: FOSS bugs Message-ID: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/172469/study_shows_opensource_code_quality_improving.html Noticed Ruby got top rung on bug bashing. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav May the { source } be with you ! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 19:47:10 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:47:10 -0400 Subject: Suggestions for new computer In-Reply-To: <20090923175407.GE23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880909221912v18731bbdo94cfa4a26c8c1fd7@mail.gmail.com> <20090923175407.GE23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 9/23/09, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:12:02PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> I'm looking to buy a new PC, that can be ran with mythtv and has the >> power to do video encoding and audio encoding. > > Well my Q6600 based mythtv box certainly does that well. A more efficient > dual or quad core would be possible now which would make for a cooler > and quieter box. > >> It's going to be my multimedia center including using music with >> coaxial output, the problem I'm finding is that most of these >> motherboards only have 2 PCI regular slots... >> If even that, alot of them only have pci express slots. > > If you avoid microATX then you get lots of slots, but you need a bigger > case (which also allows room for HDs. Mine has room for 6 in the > HTPC case). > >> Which leads me to questions like: >> >> Are there pci express slots that can do serial for ir blaster and ir >> remote? Are there PCI express tuners that can be found that will work >> with rogers digital cable or satellite tv or even Digital over the >> air? > > Satelate: no I would put an (*) after the above... with the following: (*) you can NOT get PCI Express cards that work directly with the likes Bell Express Vu / StarChoice. There are some cards that will work with Free-to-air systems. Free-to-air satellite (FTA) systems are TV signals relayed via satellite that not encrypted. FTA options are an odd lot of: - Local regular TV stations looking for a larger audience (i.e.: CBS affiliate KEPR-TV, in Pasco, WA). - Government informational TV (i.e.: "NASA HD" or "US Veteran's Administration Knowledge Network"). - Religious TV channels (i.e.: "God's Learning Channel" or "Supreme Master TV") - Seldom heard in North America languages ("Jus Punjabi" or " Ulibka Rebyonka" (Russian)). A list of FTA channels can be seen here: http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/United-States.html Bottom line, there are a few worthwhile gems in the FTA area, but there is also a LOT of ... totally useless junk (what class each channel falls into will depend on your language skills, religious views, etc...). > Rogers digital cable: no > Over the air: yes > > For serial, there is always the USB to serial adapters as an option. > My HTPC case has a built in receiver for the remote which is USB based > directly. > >> Are regular PCI slot being phased out completely now? > > Getting there. > >> Any suggestions would be helpful. > > -- > Len Sorensen Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 20:02:43 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:02:43 -0400 Subject: Linux certification Message-ID: Just wondering are there any worthy cost effective Linux certification programs online that come will good training material? I am not planning to become a hard-core sys admin, but I would like to know more than the average desktop user. It would be nice if the program was aimed at trouble shorting and monitoring Linux, I don't need a course on how to install Linux, use the basic command, etc. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav May the { source } be with you ! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 20:08:48 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:08:48 -0400 Subject: Linux certification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ABA8050.4050104@utoronto.ca> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Just wondering are there any worthy cost effective Linux certification > programs online that come will good training material? > > I am not planning to become a hard-core sys admin, but I would like to > know more than the average desktop user. It would be nice if the > program was aimed at trouble shorting and monitoring Linux, I don't > need a course on how to install Linux, use the basic command, etc. Ping djp at the linuxcaffe -- I hear he's got an LPI exam coming up soon at a discounted rate :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 23 20:22:13 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:22:13 -0400 Subject: Suggestions for new computer In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880909221912v18731bbdo94cfa4a26c8c1fd7@mail.gmail.com> <20090923175407.GE23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090923202213.GF23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 03:47:10PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I would put an (*) after the above... with the following: > > (*) you can NOT get PCI Express cards that work directly with the > likes Bell Express Vu / StarChoice. There are some cards that will > work with Free-to-air systems. True that is an option. I have also seen places that offer to add a firewire output to a number of satelite receivers. I suspect this is considered illegal in some places. No idea really. It does mean you can dump the mpeg stream of the channels you are subscribed to to mythtv though. Not cheap though. > Free-to-air satellite (FTA) systems are TV signals relayed via > satellite that not encrypted. FTA options are an odd lot of: > > - Local regular TV stations looking for a larger audience (i.e.: CBS > affiliate KEPR-TV, in Pasco, WA). > - Government informational TV (i.e.: "NASA HD" or "US Veteran's > Administration Knowledge Network"). > - Religious TV channels (i.e.: "God's Learning Channel" or "Supreme Master TV") > - Seldom heard in North America languages ("Jus Punjabi" or " Ulibka > Rebyonka" (Russian)). > > A list of FTA channels can be seen here: > > http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/United-States.html > > Bottom line, there are a few worthwhile gems in the FTA area, but > there is also a LOT of ... totally useless junk (what class each > channel falls into will depend on your language skills, religious > views, etc...). Getting listings data for mythtv would be interesting too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 00:03:10 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:03:10 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [lpi-ontario] LPI ExamLab Toronto & Promotions] In-Reply-To: <4AB3FB6C.4020203-WHMkLBA7RDE@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB3FB6C.4020203@lpi.org> Message-ID: <4ABAB73E.8000103@linuxcaffe.ca> In the tradition of last minute notices from linuxcaffe, I'd like to announce; djp > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [lpi-ontario] LPI ExamLab Toronto & Promotions > Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:42:05 -0400 > From: announce-only list for LPI candidates in Ontario, Canada > > Organization: LPI > To: slamberton-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org > > LPI EXAM LAB at TORONTO > > 1. Toronto Exam Lab at Linuxcaffe: September 26, 2009 > > LPI will be hosting a promotional exam lab on September 26th at 4 p.m. > at the Linuxcaffe workshop, 318 Harbord Street, Toronto (just around the > corner from Linuxcaffe itself: http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/) > > All three levels of LPI certification (LPIC-1, LPIC-2 and LPIC-3) will > be offered at this limited seating exam lab at special promotional > pricing of $119 CDN (includes GST)--a savings of $49 CDN for LPIC-1, > LPIC-2 and LPI-302 & LPI-303 exams. Pricing for the LPIC-3 > certification exam (LPI-301) is $219 (includes GST)--a savings of $54 > off of regular pricing. > > To participate in the exam labs you must obtain an LPI ID at > https://www.lpi.org/caf/Xamman/register. To assure that you have a seat, > candidates should email LPI at events-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org with the following > information by September 23, 2009: > > (1) LPI ID > (2) Exam that the candidate wishes to take (LPI-101, 102, 201, etc.) > > On the day of the exam, candidates may make payment for their exams > onsite 15 minutes prior to the exam lab by cash or cheque payable to the > "Linux Professional Institute". However advanced payment via paypal > with LPI is preferred. Each exam takes approximately 90 minutes to complete. > > Candidates should bring their LPI ID and a government issued photo > identification to the exam lab. > > 2. IMPORTANT: "Single Exam" Expiry Policy > > In March our Board of Directors passed a new policy that limited the > time a single exam would remain valid towards certification. In the > past it was possible that one could write and pass one exam and then > take the second exam at an indefinite later date in order to complete > the certification (e.g. both LPIC-1 and LPIC-2 require two exams). This > has been modified to align with our recertification policy (# 6 at > http://www.lpi.org/eng/certification/policies): a single exam will be > valid for only five years such that the second exam must be taken within > a five year period in order to obtain the certification. This policy > became effective September 1, 2009. > > > 3. LPIC-1 and Ubuntu Certified Professional Vouchers > > LPI and Canonical (sponsor of the popular Linux distribution Ubuntu) > have introduced a new discounted voucher program for the LPIC-1 and > Ubuntu Certified Professional (UCP) exams. The promotional program > enables candidates to purchase a voucher bundle for the LPI-101, LPI-102 > and the LPI-199 exams at USD $120 each--a savings of over 20%. > > For more information please on this voucher bundle please see: > http://www.lpi.org/eng/about_lpi/upcoming_events/lpi_promotions_and_incentives > > To order your voucher bundle please contact: accounts-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org > > 4. Host an EXAM LAB in Ontario! > > LPI invites groups of 10 or more interested exam candidates to contact > us to organize their own local promotional exam labs. We will offer LPI > exams at a discounted price if you are able to identify a potential exam > proctor, a room location, and 10 or more interested participants. If > you can gather together the requisite amount of exam candidates feel > free to contact us for more information at events-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org > > > _______________________________________________ > lpi-ontario mailing list > lpi-ontario-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org > http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-ontario > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 00:26:57 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:26:57 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [lpi-ontario] LPI ExamLab Toronto & Promotions] In-Reply-To: <4ABAB73E.8000103-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB3FB6C.4020203@lpi.org> <4ABAB73E.8000103@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4ABABCD1.8060805@gmail.com> David J Patrick wrote: > In the tradition of last minute notices from linuxcaffe, I'd like to > announce; > djp >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: [lpi-ontario] LPI ExamLab Toronto & Promotions >> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:42:05 -0400 >> From: announce-only list for LPI candidates in Ontario, Canada >> >> Organization: LPI >> To: slamberton-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org >> >> LPI EXAM LAB at TORONTO >> >> 1. Toronto Exam Lab at Linuxcaffe: September 26, 2009 >> >> LPI will be hosting a promotional exam lab on September 26th at 4 p.m. >> at the Linuxcaffe workshop, 318 Harbord Street, Toronto (just around the >> corner from Linuxcaffe itself: http://www.linuxcaffe.ca/) >> >> All three levels of LPI certification (LPIC-1, LPIC-2 and LPIC-3) will >> be offered at this limited seating exam lab at special promotional >> pricing of $119 CDN (includes GST)--a savings of $49 CDN for LPIC-1, >> LPIC-2 and LPI-302 & LPI-303 exams. Pricing for the LPIC-3 >> certification exam (LPI-301) is $219 (includes GST)--a savings of $54 >> off of regular pricing. >> >> To participate in the exam labs you must obtain an LPI ID at >> https://www.lpi.org/caf/Xamman/register. To assure that you have a seat, >> candidates should email LPI at events-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org with the following >> information by September 23, 2009: >> >> (1) LPI ID >> (2) Exam that the candidate wishes to take (LPI-101, 102, 201, etc.) >> >> On the day of the exam, candidates may make payment for their exams >> onsite 15 minutes prior to the exam lab by cash or cheque payable to the >> "Linux Professional Institute". However advanced payment via paypal >> with LPI is preferred. Each exam takes approximately 90 minutes to >> complete. >> >> Candidates should bring their LPI ID and a government issued photo >> identification to the exam lab. >> >> 2. IMPORTANT: "Single Exam" Expiry Policy >> >> In March our Board of Directors passed a new policy that limited the >> time a single exam would remain valid towards certification. In the >> past it was possible that one could write and pass one exam and then >> take the second exam at an indefinite later date in order to complete >> the certification (e.g. both LPIC-1 and LPIC-2 require two exams). This >> has been modified to align with our recertification policy (# 6 at >> http://www.lpi.org/eng/certification/policies): a single exam will be >> valid for only five years such that the second exam must be taken within >> a five year period in order to obtain the certification. This policy >> became effective September 1, 2009. >> >> >> 3. LPIC-1 and Ubuntu Certified Professional Vouchers >> >> LPI and Canonical (sponsor of the popular Linux distribution Ubuntu) >> have introduced a new discounted voucher program for the LPIC-1 and >> Ubuntu Certified Professional (UCP) exams. The promotional program >> enables candidates to purchase a voucher bundle for the LPI-101, LPI-102 >> and the LPI-199 exams at USD $120 each--a savings of over 20%. >> >> For more information please on this voucher bundle please see: >> http://www.lpi.org/eng/about_lpi/upcoming_events/lpi_promotions_and_incentives >> >> >> To order your voucher bundle please contact: accounts-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org >> >> 4. Host an EXAM LAB in Ontario! >> >> LPI invites groups of 10 or more interested exam candidates to contact >> us to organize their own local promotional exam labs. We will offer LPI >> exams at a discounted price if you are able to identify a potential exam >> proctor, a room location, and 10 or more interested participants. If >> you can gather together the requisite amount of exam candidates feel >> free to contact us for more information at events-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> lpi-ontario mailing list >> lpi-ontario-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org >> http://list.lpi.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lpi-ontario Hi David, Not clear, is this only for taking an exam to get certified? I am looking for information with Linux training before taking any exam. Also when is the exam actual taking place, do you have links to the certification/training syllabus with dates? -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 00:34:28 2009 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:34:28 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [lpi-ontario] LPI ExamLab Toronto & Promotions] In-Reply-To: <4ABABCD1.8060805-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB3FB6C.4020203@lpi.org> <4ABAB73E.8000103@linuxcaffe.ca> <4ABABCD1.8060805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1253752468.16582.66.camel@hatsya.starnix.com> On Wed, 2009-09-23 at 20:26 -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Not clear, is this only for taking an exam to get certified? I am looking for > information with Linux training before taking any exam. Also when is the exam > actual taking place, do you have links to the certification/training syllabus > with dates? Hi Rajinder, I'm going to be the proctor for the exams. If you'd like to discuss some learning options while I'm there, I can definitely give you some good ideas. The offer is open to anyone that shows up, too. I haven't checked the announcement but it's my understanding that this event is on Saturday evening. Regards, --matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 15:23:08 2009 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:23:08 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [lpi-ontario] LPI ExamLab Toronto & Promotions] In-Reply-To: <1253752468.16582.66.camel-EWWT1lLJxm2ye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB3FB6C.4020203@lpi.org> <4ABAB73E.8000103@linuxcaffe.ca> <4ABABCD1.8060805@gmail.com> <1253752468.16582.66.camel@hatsya.starnix.com> Message-ID: <4ABB8EDC.9010502@the-wire.com> G. Matthew Rice wrote: > I'm going to be the proctor for the exams. If you'd like to discuss > some learning options while I'm there, I can definitely give you some > good ideas. I'd like to drop in too, maybe to hear the same info as Rajinder. Hope there won't be enough of us to interfere with proctoring. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 16:16:23 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (kalibslack) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:16:23 -0300 Subject: [Fwd: [lpi-ontario] LPI ExamLab Toronto & Promotions] In-Reply-To: <4ABB8EDC.9010502-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB3FB6C.4020203@lpi.org> <4ABAB73E.8000103@linuxcaffe.ca> <4ABABCD1.8060805@gmail.com> <1253752468.16582.66.camel@hatsya.starnix.com> <4ABB8EDC.9010502@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <1089a0320909240916y5bb0543mc5893504ea6b48a8@mail.gmail.com> Good look for those who will take the exam. ;] The LPI certification is very important for the Linux Professionals in my country (Brazil). I think is important in Canada too. Next month I'll try the exam by prometric. cheers --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > G. Matthew Rice wrote: > >> I'm going to be the proctor for the exams. If you'd like to discuss >> some learning options while I'm there, I can definitely give you some >> good ideas. >> > > I'd like to drop in too, maybe to hear the same info as Rajinder. Hope > there won't be enough of us to interfere with proctoring. > > Mel. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 16:29:30 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:29:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP Message-ID: Just got this from TekSavvy: ------ http://www.arifsaha.com/ forwarded messages ------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:47:20 From: TekSavvy Solutions Inc Subject: We need your help -- CRTC Ruling would challenge telecom competition (Une version fran?aise de ce couriel sera envoy? plus tard aujourd'hui.) Hello, We need your help -- we need you to lend us your voice and state your opinion on a recent CRTC decision that could allow the incumbent phone companies (such as Bell and Telus) to discontinue offering services (Internet and phone) to wholesale providers which in effect would eliminate competition in Canada. With no competition to help fuel the market; Internet innovation could come to stand still and prices for broadband access could skyrocket out of control. The incumbents would also be free to do with the lines as they please. This would open up future privacy invading Deep Packet Inspection (DPI) technologies and direct marketing/advertising based on *you* and *your families* internet activities and habits. They could also use this same technology to turn the Internet into a pay-per-website service the same way that TV is a pay-per-channel service. Can you imagine a world where you have to pay to use the Google website to search for information? Then, if you find what you are looking for you may be restricted to the content because your ISP doesn't have a "peering" agreement with said company. Please help us stop this major potential catastrophe. All concerned consumers please visit: http://www.competitivebroadband.com/consumer/ All concerned businesses please visit: http://www.competitivebroadband.com Read the information presented and decide for yourself. Once you've decided what you think is right, you can click the "Make a Difference" link, fill out the form with your details and send a pre-written message to Minister of Industry Tony Clement, Prime Minister Harper, the Opposition Leader, and your local MP or choose to write your own. Together we can make a difference. Thank you, TekSavvy Solutions, Inc. ---------------- end forwarded messages ----------------- -- From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 17:32:49 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:32:49 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [lpi-ontario] LPI ExamLab Toronto & Promotions] In-Reply-To: <1253752468.16582.66.camel-EWWT1lLJxm2ye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB3FB6C.4020203@lpi.org> <4ABAB73E.8000103@linuxcaffe.ca> <4ABABCD1.8060805@gmail.com> <1253752468.16582.66.camel@hatsya.starnix.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:34 PM, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > On Wed, 2009-09-23 at 20:26 -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Not clear, is this only for taking an exam to get certified? I am looking for >> information with Linux training before taking any exam. Also when is the exam >> actual taking place, do you have links to the certification/training syllabus >> with dates? > > Hi Rajinder, > > I'm going to be the proctor for the exams. ?If you'd like to discuss > some learning options while I'm there, I can definitely give you some > good ideas. > > The offer is open to anyone that shows up, too. > > I haven't checked the announcement but it's my understanding that this > event is on Saturday evening. Thanks Matt for the offer, unfortunately I will not be able to drop by. However, I did a quick looking around and came by some information that should prove helpful for the LP1 exam. Others who might be interested can find it here: http://www.happy-monkey.net/LPI/html/ > > Regards, > --matt > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav May the { source } be with you ! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 17:51:40 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:51:40 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ABBB1AC.8000703@alteeve.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Just got this from TekSavvy: Here is my message I just sent. Please, everyone, send a message! Madison --------------- Dear Sir/Madam I am a small business owner in Oakville, ON, with hosting services in Toronto, ON. To manage costs, I run nightly backups from my servers to my home. This helps me keep costs down lets me stay competitive in an already tight economy. After nearly ten years of being a customer of Bell Sympatico, I got so fed up with their terrible support that I decided to show my dissatisfaction by taking my business elsewhere. I now support another small ISP in Toronto who in turn supports me and my business. When I canceled my service, the Bell CSR told me directly that they were not throttling my Internet service and that is was the resellers who were throttling me. When I recently had trouble with my line, I had to have Bell out to my home several times. To this day, over a month later, the problem is not resolved. I've had three of the several technicians tell me, off the record, that Bell instructs them to do as little as possible to help the customer's of resellers. If the recent CRTC decision on essential services goes through, this same company will have the opportunity to shut down competition. They already do what they can to hurt their resellers and they can NOT be allowed to have more power over their competition. They will hurt Canadian business! The level of service will fall and prices will rise unchecked. Competition between Rogers will not be enough. They will inevitably come up with nominal service plans with only a modest pretense of competing. Look at how much better cellular service and pricing is since the new providers have been allowed to come online. A CRTC ruling to *strengthen* competition is already desperately needed in Internet telecommunications. The current direction of the CRTC will instead harm it. Ontario and Canada in general no longer can compete in manufacturing and other traditional markets like we once did. Our future is in our ability to manage, create and share knowledge. Without a strong, competitive and OPEN telecommunications network, we will not be able to compete with the likes of Japan, Taiwan, Korea and the United States. Even the new USA government had come to appreciate the importance of Net Neutrality with regard to being competitive in the new economy. Unless the CRTC begins supporting Net Neutrality and real competition, Canada will fall behind and become more irrelevant. Please do what you can to prevent this from happening. The Canadian economy needs all the help it can to return to it strong position and unfettered Internet access is critical. Please write to tell me what your position will be. Sincerely, Madison Kelly, Alteeve's Niche! --------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 18:00:58 2009 From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen Thornton) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:00:58 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4ABBB1AC.8000703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABBB1AC.8000703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1253815258.16549.96.camel@bliss.ss.org> Would be very interesting to hear if you even get any replies! Maureen On Thu, 2009-09-24 at 13:51 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > > Just got this from TekSavvy: > > Here is my message I just sent. Please, everyone, send a message! > > Madison > > --------------- > Dear Sir/Madam > > I am a small business owner in Oakville, ON, with hosting services in > Toronto, ON. To manage costs, I run nightly backups from my servers to > my home. This helps me keep costs down lets me stay competitive in an > already tight economy. > ****** > Unless the CRTC begins supporting Net Neutrality and real competition, > Canada will fall behind and become more irrelevant. Please do what you > can to prevent this from happening. The Canadian economy needs all the > help it can to return to it strong position and unfettered Internet > access is critical. > > Please write to tell me what your position will be. > > Sincerely, > > Madison Kelly, > Alteeve's Niche! > --------------- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 18:09:20 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:09:20 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <1253815258.16549.96.camel-Cc8bTzyuDCFg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABBB1AC.8000703@alteeve.com> <1253815258.16549.96.camel@bliss.ss.org> Message-ID: <4ABBB5D0.5020708@alteeve.com> Maureen Thornton wrote: > Would be very interesting to hear if you even get any replies! > Maureen So far, only Ignatieff's office has even sent an auto-reply. :) If I hear anything, I'll pass it on. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 18:37:58 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:37:58 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92ee967a0909241137l4536ae53y530ec87107a3acdf@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 12:29 PM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Just got this from TekSavvy: .... > All concerned businesses please visit: > http://www.competitivebroadband.com > > Read the information presented and decide for yourself. The email appears to be a reprint of what is here: http://www.teksavvynews.com/ I can't seem to reach competitivebroadband.com, is anyone else able to? -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 18:44:46 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:44:46 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0909241137l4536ae53y530ec87107a3acdf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <92ee967a0909241137l4536ae53y530ec87107a3acdf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090924184446.GA22118@yam.witteman.ca> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 02:37:58PM -0400, Mike Kallies wrote: >The email appears to be a reprint of what is here: > > http://www.teksavvynews.com/ > >I can't seem to reach competitivebroadband.com, is anyone else able to? I was able to earlier in the day, but it is throwing 503s now, so it is probably overloaded. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 18:49:19 2009 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:49:19 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1253818159.22095.1336474179@webmail.messagingengine.com> I'd love to write a letter of my own about this, ASAP. However, I may be limited in what I can do because I'm not a citizen of Canada yet, though I am a permanent resident (landed immigrant) and intend to apply for citizenship once I'm eligible, which should be next year. Before I start composing my letter, does anyone here know what the legal situation is for non-citizen residents who wish to contact MPs or other government officials urging them to act on a major issue such as this one? Is it okay to contact them, with the understanding that a letter from a non-citizen would obviously carry less weight? Or is it considered interference from an outsider, illegal and a deportable offence? Even if it's legal to contact them, I'm also concerned about marking myself as a troublemaker and inviting retaliation before I manage to obtain citizenship. To be clear about this, I'm not talking about misrepresenting myself as a citizen, since that would almost certainly be illegal, as well as dishonest. But I live here too, and I'd like to know what I can do to help on this issue. Amanda On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:29 -0400, "S P Arif Sahari Wibowo" wrote: > Just got this from TekSavvy: > > ------ http://www.arifsaha.com/ forwarded messages ------ > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:47:20 > From: TekSavvy Solutions Inc > Subject: We need your help -- CRTC Ruling would challenge telecom > competition > > (Une version fran?aise de ce couriel sera envoy? plus tard > aujourd'hui.) > > Hello, > > We need your help -- we need you to lend us your voice and state > your opinion on a recent CRTC decision that could allow the > incumbent phone companies (such as Bell and Telus) to > discontinue offering services (Internet and phone) to wholesale > providers which in effect would eliminate competition in Canada. > > With no competition to help fuel the market; Internet innovation > could come to stand still and prices for broadband access could > skyrocket out of control. The incumbents would also be free to > do with the lines as they please. This would open up future > privacy invading Deep Packet Inspection (DPI) technologies and > direct marketing/advertising based on *you* and *your families* > internet activities and habits. > > They could also use this same technology to turn the Internet > into a pay-per-website service the same way that TV is a > pay-per-channel service. Can you imagine a world where you have > to pay to use the Google website to search for information? > Then, if you find what you are looking for you may be restricted > to the content because your ISP doesn't have a "peering" > agreement with said company. > > Please help us stop this major potential catastrophe. > > All concerned consumers please visit: > http://www.competitivebroadband.com/consumer/ > > All concerned businesses please visit: > http://www.competitivebroadband.com > > Read the information presented and decide for yourself. > > Once you've decided what you think is right, you can click the > "Make a Difference" link, fill out the form with your details > and send a pre-written message to Minister of Industry Tony > Clement, Prime Minister Harper, the Opposition Leader, and your > local MP or choose to write your own. > > Together we can make a difference. > Thank you, > TekSavvy Solutions, Inc. > > ---------------- end forwarded messages ----------------- > > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 18:55:02 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:55:02 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4ABBB5D0.5020708-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABBB1AC.8000703@alteeve.com> <1253815258.16549.96.camel@bliss.ss.org> <4ABBB5D0.5020708@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 9/24/09, Madison Kelly wrote: > Maureen Thornton wrote: >> Would be very interesting to hear if you even get any replies! >> Maureen > > So far, only Ignatieff's office has even sent an auto-reply. :) > > If I hear anything, I'll pass it on. > > Madi I sent in the default message this morning, and as with Madison, so far all I have heard back is an auto-reply from Mr. Ignatieff... The reply I got is noted below. Colin McGregor ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Le fran?ais suit.... On behalf of the Leader of the Opposition, we would like to acknowledge receipt of your email. Due to the large volume of correspondence we receive, it may take some time before we can respond, but please note that your thoughts are always appreciated and taken into consideration. Thank you for taking the time to write to Michael Ignatieff. Sincerely, The Office of Michael Ignatieff, M.P. Leader of the Opposition Leader of the Liberal Party of Canada Au nom du chef de l'Opposition, nous accusons r?ception de votre courriel. ? cause du nombre important de messages que nous recevons, notre r?ponse pourrait prendre quelque temps ? vous parvenir, mais soyez certain que vos opinions sont toujours tr?s appr?ci?es et que nous en tiendrons compte. Nous vous remercions d'avoir pris le temps d'?crire ? Michael Ignatieff. Bien cordialement, Cabinet de Michael Ignatieff, d?put? Chef de l'Opposition officielle Chef du Parti lib?ral du Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 19:01:29 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:01:29 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <1253818159.22095.1336474179-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1253818159.22095.1336474179@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4ABBC209.8060506@alteeve.com> Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > I'd love to write a letter of my own about this, ASAP. > > However, I may be limited in what I can do because I'm not a citizen of Canada yet, though I am a permanent resident (landed immigrant) and intend to apply for citizenship once I'm eligible, which should be next year. > > Before I start composing my letter, does anyone here know what the legal situation is for non-citizen residents who wish to contact MPs or other government officials urging them to act on a major issue such as this one? > > Is it okay to contact them, with the understanding that a letter from a non-citizen would obviously carry less weight? Or is it considered interference from an outsider, illegal and a deportable offence? > > Even if it's legal to contact them, I'm also concerned about marking myself as a troublemaker and inviting retaliation before I manage to obtain citizenship. > > To be clear about this, I'm not talking about misrepresenting myself as a citizen, since that would almost certainly be illegal, as well as dishonest. But I live here too, and I'd like to know what I can do to help on this issue. > > Amanda I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. However, I believe that if you live in the country, you have a right to be heard. You pay taxes like residence, so you should expect to have representation. Being that you are here legally, it would be very unwise for a government official to cause trouble for you. They would have to know that, being caught, they would be torn limb from limb politically speaking. I would never advise someone to put themselves in a difficult situation. That said, I don't think a letter would be any risk. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 19:13:09 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:13:09 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <1253818159.22095.1336474179-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1253818159.22095.1336474179@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On 9/24/09, Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > I'd love to write a letter of my own about this, ASAP. > > However, I may be limited in what I can do because I'm not a citizen of > Canada yet, though I am a permanent resident (landed immigrant) and intend > to apply for citizenship once I'm eligible, which should be next year. > > Before I start composing my letter, does anyone here know what the legal > situation is for non-citizen residents who wish to contact MPs or other > government officials urging them to act on a major issue such as this one? > > Is it okay to contact them, with the understanding that a letter from a > non-citizen would obviously carry less weight? Or is it considered > interference from an outsider, illegal and a deportable offence? > > Even if it's legal to contact them, I'm also concerned about marking myself > as a troublemaker and inviting retaliation before I manage to obtain > citizenship. > > To be clear about this, I'm not talking about misrepresenting myself as a > citizen, since that would almost certainly be illegal, as well as dishonest. > But I live here too, and I'd like to know what I can do to help on this > issue. > > Amanda I can not speak to the whole being tagged as a trouble-maker issue. Could some of the new Canadians on this list comment? But if I were in your shoes I would be inclined to write something that started like: ------------------------------------ Dear David J. Broadfoot, MP I am a resident of your ridding of Kicking Horse Pass. I would like to share with you my serious concerns regarding the CRTC decision to .... ----------------------------------- Honest, polite, and non-confrontational. Just one of the people in the MP's ridding noting a real concern with a public policy question. The fact that you are not a citizen quite yet to MY mind is not material... Colin McGregor P.S.: Yes, I did listen / watch too much "Royal Canadian Air Farce" in my youth, thus the choice of the ridding of Kicking Horse Pass... > On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:29 -0400, "S P Arif Sahari Wibowo" > wrote: >> Just got this from TekSavvy: >> >> ------ http://www.arifsaha.com/ forwarded messages ------ >> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:47:20 >> From: TekSavvy Solutions Inc >> Subject: We need your help -- CRTC Ruling would challenge telecom >> competition >> >> (Une version fran?aise de ce couriel sera envoy? plus tard >> aujourd'hui.) >> >> Hello, >> >> We need your help -- we need you to lend us your voice and state >> your opinion on a recent CRTC decision that could allow the >> incumbent phone companies (such as Bell and Telus) to >> discontinue offering services (Internet and phone) to wholesale >> providers which in effect would eliminate competition in Canada. >> >> With no competition to help fuel the market; Internet innovation >> could come to stand still and prices for broadband access could >> skyrocket out of control. The incumbents would also be free to >> do with the lines as they please. This would open up future >> privacy invading Deep Packet Inspection (DPI) technologies and >> direct marketing/advertising based on *you* and *your families* >> internet activities and habits. >> >> They could also use this same technology to turn the Internet >> into a pay-per-website service the same way that TV is a >> pay-per-channel service. Can you imagine a world where you have >> to pay to use the Google website to search for information? >> Then, if you find what you are looking for you may be restricted >> to the content because your ISP doesn't have a "peering" >> agreement with said company. >> >> Please help us stop this major potential catastrophe. >> >> All concerned consumers please visit: >> http://www.competitivebroadband.com/consumer/ >> >> All concerned businesses please visit: >> http://www.competitivebroadband.com >> >> Read the information presented and decide for yourself. >> >> Once you've decided what you think is right, you can click the >> "Make a Difference" link, fill out the form with your details >> and send a pre-written message to Minister of Industry Tony >> Clement, Prime Minister Harper, the Opposition Leader, and your >> local MP or choose to write your own. >> >> Together we can make a difference. >> Thank you, >> TekSavvy Solutions, Inc. >> >> ---------------- end forwarded messages ----------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 19:51:19 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:51:19 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: References: <1253818159.22095.1336474179@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0909241251m56f6415u3cb5f8809660e4@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: ... > But if I were in your shoes I would be inclined to write something > that started like: > > ------------------------------------ > > Dear David J. Broadfoot, MP > > I am a resident of your ridding of Kicking Horse Pass. I would like to > share with you my serious concerns regarding the CRTC decision to .... > > ----------------------------------- > > Honest, polite, and non-confrontational. Just one of the people in the > MP's ridding noting a real concern with a public policy question. The > fact that you are not a citizen quite yet to MY mind is not > material... > > Colin McGregor I swear I recall reading an article back around December 1995 or December 1996, I think in the Toronto Star, which talked about the creation of Sympatico and the fear that the CRTC had of Bell competing with internet service providers. In the article, it was decided that Sympatico should be separate enough so as to allow for competition in the industry. Even the combining of the Sympatico billing with the Bell phone billing was considered problematic because other internet providers could not offer similar conveniences. It's in *strong* contrast with what is happening now, which is Sympatico is so overwhelmingly associated with Bell, that nobody can figure out what the difference is anymore. Does anyone else remember this controversy? Contributing the article to letters sent into MPs might re-open old arguments instead of starting new ones. Should Bell (and Rogers?) be forced to expunge their Internet business because they control the lines and have demonstrated that they *will* and *have* abused their powers? I guess I should dig through microfilm... this is just barely before stuff started getting archived reasonably well on the Internet. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 20:04:24 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:04:24 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4ABBB1AC.8000703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABBB1AC.8000703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: I would suggest taking whatever you produce, printing it out, and putting it into an envelope to send to the assorted personages involved. Mailing it to any MP is free of charge: "Mail may be sent postage-free to any Member at the following address: House of Commons Parliament Buildings Ottawa, Ontario Canada K1A 0A6" There are formal processes for dealing with physical mail that comes in, so you can have a somewhat higher expectation of the mail having some priority over anything "blathered over email." -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Ogden Nash - "The trouble with a kitten is that when it grows up, it's always a cat." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/o/ogden_nash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 20:13:15 2009 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <1253818159.22095.1336474179-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1253818159.22095.1336474179@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: yOn Thu, 24 Sep 2009, Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > I'd love to write a letter of my own about this, ASAP. > > However, I may be limited in what I can do because I'm not a citizen > of Canada yet, though I am a permanent resident (landed immigrant) > and intend to apply for citizenship once I'm eligible, which should > be next year. I've been a landed immigrant for 44 years! > Before I start composing my letter, does anyone here know what the > legal situation is for non-citizen residents who wish to contact MPs > or other government officials urging them to act on a major issue > such as this one? The only thing you cannot do is vote. (And a few other very minor things.) > Is it okay to contact them, with the understanding that a letter > from a non-citizen would obviously carry less weight? Or is it > considered interference from an outsider, illegal and a deportable > offence? > Even if it's legal to contact them, I'm also concerned about marking > myself as a troublemaker and inviting retaliation before I manage to > obtain citizenship. Don't worry about that. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 20:16:03 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:16:03 -0400 Subject: GPL wins in French court case Message-ID: <7c50d3570909241316o4a241159ra3a6ccb976109417@mail.gmail.com> Short article, will include it all here; and there's a PDF of the ruling on the site, if you want to comment directly on the site it's from -- besides commenting on the list -- the URL will follow: "An appeals court in Paris has upheld the ruling from a lower court, which found that the French firm Edu4 had violated the GNU General Public License (GPL). The plaintiff was the French Organisation Association fran?aise pour la Formation Professionnelle des Adultes (AFPA), an umbrella organization for adult education. "In 2000, Edu4 equipped the AFPA's computer rooms. In the process, the IT firm used a version of the VNC remote desktop software without providing the AFPA ? as required by the GPL ? with the source code on request. In addition, it turned out that Edu4 had removed copyright and licensing notes from VNC. "When the matter could not be settled out of court, the AFPA took the IT firm to court and won, but Edu4 appealed the decision. Now, the higher court has confirmed the ruling that Edu4 should pay ?8,000 (?7,195) to the AFPA and cover both the cost of court proceedings and two expert opinions." http://www.h-online.com/open/GPL-wins-in-French-court-case--/news/114312 -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 24 20:29:59 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:29:59 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <1253818159.22095.1336474179-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1253818159.22095.1336474179@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > I'd love to write a letter of my own about this, ASAP. > > However, I may be limited in what I can do because I'm not a citizen of Canada yet, though I am a permanent resident (landed immigrant) and intend to apply for citizenship once I'm eligible, which should be next year. > > Before I start composing my letter, does anyone here know what the legal situation is for non-citizen residents who wish to contact MPs or other government officials urging them to act on a major issue such as this one? > > Is it okay to contact them, with the understanding that a letter from a non-citizen would obviously carry less weight? Or is it considered interference from an outsider, illegal and a deportable offence? > > Even if it's legal to contact them, I'm also concerned about marking myself as a troublemaker and inviting retaliation before I manage to obtain citizenship. > > To be clear about this, I'm not talking about misrepresenting myself as a citizen, since that would almost certainly be illegal, as well as dishonest. But I live here too, and I'd like to know what I can do to help on this issue. I don't see there being *any* problem here, as long as you're not actually going out to try to expressly cause trouble :-). There's a relevant fundamental difference between Canada and the US; in the US, it is something of a sin to be "unamerican"... Since we're not a big enough "player" to consider ourselves a world unto ourselves, there's a considerable aspect of this that wouldn't logically map over to being "UnCanadian". The Toronto area has a stronger expression of this than the national average, as there are *so* many fairly recent immigrants living here, in most cases, entirely legitimately. (You can contrast two ways... Rural portions of Canada haven't got many residents that *aren't* multigenerational citizens. Contrast also with portions of the US near the Mexican border, which regularly have large quantities of illegal aliens, and as an attendant consequence, a not-surprising amount of discomfort with aliens...) If you participate in legitimate ways in the political process, and put in the effort to make sure you do so in proper ways, then that is hardly "branding yourself a troublemaker" - that is much more an evidence that you are a "good risk" as a would-be citizen. Writing to the local representative as "a concerned resident" fits with that pretty well. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Charles de Gaulle - "The better I get to know men, the more I find myself loving dogs." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/charles_de_gaulle.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 02:54:09 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:54:09 -0400 Subject: OT: Rails data security support, vote please Message-ID: <4ABC30D1.9030302@gmail.com> If there are any Rails fans here, and you would like to see data security a part of the Rails 3 framework and performance is important to you for large data please visit the link below and cast your vote: http://rails.uservoice.com/pages/10012-rails/suggestions/327300-data-encryption-support Pass this on to other Rails friends, let's bump this one up to the top. This has already been posted on the Rails mailing list. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 05:36:21 2009 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:36:21 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ABC56D5.40908@rogers.com> In another mailing list I'm on, someone is defending Bell's position. I'd like to have the opinion of people here. His contention is that wholesalers just resell Bell's internet service, and thus are not true competitors. He contends that a true competitor would locate equipment inside Bell's central office switches, so as to gain access to the "last mile", and that equipment would connect to the Internet completely independently of Bell (instead of the current wholesale ISP situation). He add's that such a competitor may face obstacles from Bell when trying to gain access to the central offices though. So I'm wondering, is Bell required to provide access to their central office switches to allow competitors to access the "last mile"? Is it reasonable that only the "last mile" should be open to competition, or should the "last 10 miles" be open (i.e. the 10 miles that separate all the central switches from the big internet pipes). -- Yanni S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Just got this from TekSavvy: > > ------ http://www.arifsaha.com/ forwarded messages ------ > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:47:20 > From: TekSavvy Solutions Inc > Subject: We need your help -- CRTC Ruling would challenge telecom > competition > > (Une version fran?aise de ce couriel sera envoy? plus tard aujourd'hui.) > > Hello, > > We need your help -- we need you to lend us your voice and state your > opinion on a recent CRTC decision that could allow the incumbent phone > companies (such as Bell and Telus) to discontinue offering services > (Internet and phone) to wholesale providers which in effect would > eliminate competition in Canada. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 12:08:25 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:08:25 -0300 Subject: OT: Rails data security support, vote please In-Reply-To: <4ABC30D1.9030302-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABC30D1.9030302@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1089a0320909250508t3e0a3aa3rf53f61ad490af7d7@mail.gmail.com> Finally they paid attention to the security on rails. --- - ??v? ? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ?ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ?^ ^ ? Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > If there are any Rails fans here, and you would like to see data security a part of the Rails 3 framework and performance is important to you for large data please visit the link below and cast your vote: > > http://rails.uservoice.com/pages/10012-rails/suggestions/327300-data-encryption-support > > Pass this on to other Rails friends, let's bump this one up to the top. > This has already been posted on the Rails mailing list. > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 12:16:03 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:16:03 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4ABC56D5.40908-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABC56D5.40908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4ABCB483.4060508@rogers.com> Yanni Chiu wrote: > In another mailing list I'm on, someone is defending Bell's position. > I'd like to have the opinion of people here. His contention is that > wholesalers just resell Bell's internet service, and thus are not true > competitors. He contends that a true competitor would locate equipment > inside Bell's central office switches, so as to gain access to the > "last mile", and that equipment would connect to the Internet > completely independently of Bell (instead of the current wholesale ISP > situation). He add's that such a competitor may face obstacles from > Bell when trying to gain access to the central offices though. > > So I'm wondering, is Bell required to provide access to their central > office switches to allow competitors to access the "last mile"? > > Is it reasonable that only the "last mile" should be open to > competition, or should the "last 10 miles" be open (i.e. the 10 miles > that separate all the central switches from the big internet pipes). > There are some competitors that install equipment in the Bell CO. A few years ago, I was configuring some DSLAM shelves for Sprint in Bell COs. A case could be made that Sympatico be completely severed from Bell, with Bell providing only the pairs to them on the same basis as they would any other ISP. At the moment there is a lot to be concerned about in the telecom world in Canada, as the CRTC appears to be favouring the major incumbents at the expense of competition. Net neutrality is another critical area that comes to mind. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 12:36:56 2009 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:36:56 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4ABC56D5.40908-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABC56D5.40908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4ABCB968.2060000@the-wire.com> Yanni Chiu wrote: > In another mailing list I'm on, someone is defending Bell's position. > I'd like to have the opinion of people here. His contention is that > wholesalers just resell Bell's internet service, and thus are not true > competitors. Sympatico charged $50/month for a high-speed connection. Teksavvy charges $29.95. Looks like competition to me. > He contends that a true competitor would locate equipment > inside Bell's central office switches, so as to gain access to the "last > mile", and that equipment would connect to the Internet completely > independently of Bell (instead of the current wholesale ISP situation). > He add's that such a competitor may face obstacles from Bell when trying > to gain access to the central offices though. He's picked an argument he thinks he can win -- not an argument that makes sense in this world. Chuck Norris could gain access to the central offices, in a movie. Not worth pursuing, IMHO. > So I'm wondering, is Bell required to provide access to their central > office switches to allow competitors to access the "last mile"? Last miles are very expensive to build. Right now we have two: - the point-to-point mega-bundles maintained by Bell and built when Bell was a regulated monopoly - the frequency-splitting co-ax maintained by Rogers et al. and built when Rogers was a ... [don't know the history that well.] The regulatory position has been that it's ridiculous to keep building more last miles. Therefore businesses that want to offer communication services should be able to use the existing facilites for a fair price. Bell now is doing a big infrastructure upgrade to offer television and movies using Internet Protocols. Then they can take over cable TV and Bell executives can wave their\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b boo and jeer at Rogers executives. TV/IP could imaginably take all the bandwidth there is, so Bell has an incentive to pare things down. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 13:05:34 2009 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:05:34 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4ABCB968.2060000-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABC56D5.40908@rogers.com> <4ABCB968.2060000@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <4ABCC01E.8080705@the-wire.com> Mel Wilson wrote: > Last miles are very expensive to build. Right now we have two: [ ... ] Of course, I forgot the third. But if you leave your window open all the time, all the other pigeons can get it too. And building a firewall to keep out pigeons seems like misplaced activity. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 14:12:57 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:12:57 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4ABCC01E.8080705-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABC56D5.40908@rogers.com> <4ABCB968.2060000@the-wire.com> <4ABCC01E.8080705@the-wire.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880909250712t3151a4ebq2bbe9e3bb1f78485@mail.gmail.com> The other thing I think I understand is that the government helped them pay for alot of the internet lines (not sure if it was the last mile) So if they were funded partially by the government how is it completely theirs in the first place? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 15:03:05 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:03:05 -0400 Subject: OT: Rails data security support, vote please In-Reply-To: <1089a0320909250508t3e0a3aa3rf53f61ad490af7d7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABC30D1.9030302@gmail.com> <1089a0320909250508t3e0a3aa3rf53f61ad490af7d7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 8:08 AM, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Finally they paid attention to the security on rails. That was my own suggestion, I have been on the ruby and rails mailing list asking how to do secure programming via encryption support. I looked for ruby gems, not much and was not impressed, most the two I found has performance limitation, so can't use them in a real world. Possibly there is as gem or plug-in I haven't come across yet, but the rails and ruby board didn't provide me with much help. My last solution is to to write a module in C for Ruby being a C++ developer and pass it on to the community to take it over, possibly GnuPG would be a nice to start with. Unfortunately I don't know much about cryptography, even using the APIs so that is something new for me to learn. > --- > - ??v? ? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib > - /(_)\ ?ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master > - ?^ ^ ? Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 > - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro > - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org > - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org > - KDE Brasil Member > - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group > - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net > > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> >> If there are any Rails fans here, and you would like to see data security a part of the Rails 3 framework and performance is important to you for large data please visit the link below and cast your vote: >> >> http://rails.uservoice.com/pages/10012-rails/suggestions/327300-data-encryption-support >> >> Pass this on to other Rails friends, let's bump this one up to the top. >> This has already been posted on the Rails mailing list. >> >> -- >> Kind Regards, >> Rajinder Yadav >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav May the { source } be with you ! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 16:27:01 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:27:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4ABCB483.4060508-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABC56D5.40908@rogers.com> <4ABCB483.4060508@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Sep 2009, James Knott wrote: > There are some competitors that install equipment in the Bell > CO. A few years ago, I was configuring some DSLAM shelves for > Sprint in Bell COs. Which Sprint is this? What it is doing in Canada? :-) It seems that if an ISP install its own equipment, then there is no technical way Bell can impose its limitation, isn't it? > A case could be made that Sympatico be completely severed from > Bell, with Bell providing only the pairs to them on the same > basis as they would any other ISP. Except that Sympatico / Bell Internet is a subsidiary of Bell, so it will be the best interest of Bell to determine a policy that is most advantageous for Sympatico / Bell Internet. -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 16:26:53 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:26:53 -0400 Subject: Dumb bind question Message-ID: <4ABCEF4D.60904@alteeve.com> For some reason, probably stupid obvious, by name servers are resolving to the wrong addresses. If you dig ns1.alteeve.com and ns2.alteeve.com, they seem to resolve to 192.139.81.119 and 192.139.81.120. However, the SOA zone file is: $ORIGIN . $TTL 600 ; Time To Live. alteeve.com IN SOA ns1.alteeve.com. admin.nouvelocity.com. ( 2009092201 ; Serial Number (yyyymmdd##) 10800 ; refresh (in seconds) 3600 ; retry (in seconds) 86400 ; expire (in seconds) 38400 ; minimum (in seconds) ) NS ns1.alteeve.com. NS ns3.alteeve.com. A 192.139.81.117 MX 10 mail.alteeve.com. $ORIGIN alteeve.com. localhost A 127.0.0.1 mail A 192.139.81.119 ns1 A 192.139.81.117 ns2 A 192.139.81.119 www CNAME alteeve.com. What am I doing wrong? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 16:29:09 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:29:09 -0400 Subject: Dumb bind question In-Reply-To: <4ABCEF4D.60904-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABCEF4D.60904@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4ABCEFD5.6000701@alteeve.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > For some reason, probably stupid obvious, by name servers are resolving > to the wrong addresses. > > If you dig ns1.alteeve.com and ns2.alteeve.com, they seem to resolve to > 192.139.81.119 and 192.139.81.120. However, the SOA zone file is: > > $ORIGIN . > $TTL 600 ; Time To Live. > alteeve.com IN SOA ns1.alteeve.com. admin.nouvelocity.com. ( > 2009092201 ; Serial Number > (yyyymmdd##) > 10800 ; refresh (in > seconds) > 3600 ; retry (in seconds) > 86400 ; expire (in seconds) > 38400 ; minimum (in > seconds) > ) > NS ns1.alteeve.com. > NS ns3.alteeve.com. Woops, pretend that said 'ns2.alteeve.com'. *sigh* Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 16:33:46 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:33:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Dumb bind question In-Reply-To: <4ABCEF4D.60904-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABCEF4D.60904@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Sep 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > alteeve.com IN SOA ns1.alteeve.com. admin.nouvelocity.com. ( > 2009092201 ; Serial Number > (yyyymmdd##) If you see the current SOA: $ host -t soa alteeve.com alteeve.com has SOA record ns1.alteeve.com. admin.nouvelocity.com. 2009092202 10800 3600 86400 38400 ... the domain alteeve.com currently has a SOA which is newer (larger serial number) than the one you quoted. So it seems you did change in the past with this larger serial number. If you introduce another update with smaller serial number, this update will not be considered, you need to use serial number larger than existing one. -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 16:38:14 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:38:14 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: References: <4ABC56D5.40908@rogers.com> <4ABCB483.4060508@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4ABCF1F6.7050406@rogers.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Fri, 25 Sep 2009, James Knott wrote: >> There are some competitors that install equipment in the Bell CO. A >> few years ago, I was configuring some DSLAM shelves for Sprint in >> Bell COs. > > Which Sprint is this? What it is doing in Canada? :-) Sprint Canada, actually Call-Net was bought by Rogers about the time I was doing that work. I have no idea if Rogers is still continuing with the ADSL business, though they did for a while. > > It seems that if an ISP install its own equipment, then there is no > technical way Bell can impose its limitation, isn't it? No they can't. > >> A case could be made that Sympatico be completely severed from Bell, >> with Bell providing only the pairs to them on the same basis as they >> would any other ISP. > > Except that Sympatico / Bell Internet is a subsidiary of Bell, so it > will be the best interest of Bell to determine a policy that is most > advantageous for Sympatico / Bell Internet. > That is why they should be severed. The way it is right now, it's a wee bit too cozy to be good for competition. Bell should be providing only the "last mile" and have no involvement whatsoever with internet. Incidentally, several years ago, there was an article in Linux Journal about a city wide ethernet network in Wellington, New Zealand. The company proving the connection did just that and nothing else. A customer would then contract with some ISP to provide internet access to them via the public ethernet network. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 16:47:20 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:47:20 -0400 Subject: Dumb bind question In-Reply-To: References: <4ABCEF4D.60904@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4ABCF418.2080707@alteeve.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Fri, 25 Sep 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: >> alteeve.com IN SOA ns1.alteeve.com. admin.nouvelocity.com. ( >> 2009092201 ; Serial Number >> (yyyymmdd##) > > If you see the current SOA: > > $ host -t soa alteeve.com > alteeve.com has SOA record ns1.alteeve.com. admin.nouvelocity.com. > 2009092202 10800 3600 86400 38400 > > ... the domain alteeve.com currently has a SOA which is newer (larger > serial number) than the one you quoted. So it seems you did change in > the past with this larger serial number. If you introduce another update > with smaller serial number, this update will not be considered, you need > to use serial number larger than existing one. > Indeed you are right, and that was an old copy (hence the type), but the NS section's syntax was the same. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 16:59:26 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Dumb bind question In-Reply-To: <4ABCF418.2080707-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABCEF4D.60904@alteeve.com> <4ABCF418.2080707@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Sep 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > Indeed you are right, and that was an old copy (hence the > type), but the NS section's syntax was the same. Just update the file with higher serial number and try to repush the update. -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 17:18:57 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4ABC56D5.40908-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABC56D5.40908@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Sep 2009, Yanni Chiu wrote: > His contention is that wholesalers just resell Bell's internet > service, and thus are not true competitors. He is not correct. AFAIK the ISP (or at least the ones I know) usually manage their own backends. Probably more accurate that they use Bell services, but not all their services come from Bell, and therefore not a simple reseller. > would locate equipment inside Bell's central office switches, > so as to gain access to the "last mile", and that equipment > would connect to the Internet completely independently of Bell > (instead of the current wholesale ISP situation). . While the "last mile" was built partly using tax-payer money - and therefore rightly other ISP should have access to is - the equipment inside the CO probably much less so. Therefore those ISP are basically use Bell equipments, and therefore difficult to argue Bell cannot limit the use of its equipments, or what is the fair limitation that can be imposed. > He add's that such a competitor may face obstacles from Bell > when trying to gain access to the central offices though. IMHO the ISP should argue - and if CRTC allow Bell to limit the usage of Bell's equipment it should agree - that they should have be allowed to do just that, i.e. access to CO and install their own equipment. And CRTC should give longer time - maybe a year after Bell allow this access to its CO - before Bell can impose its limitation, so the ISP can arrange how they can manage to have their own equipment in Bell's CO. -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 17:40:56 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:40:56 -0400 Subject: Dumb bind question In-Reply-To: References: <4ABCEF4D.60904@alteeve.com> <4ABCF418.2080707@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4ABD00A8.6020006@alteeve.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Fri, 25 Sep 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Indeed you are right, and that was an old copy (hence the type), but >> the NS section's syntax was the same. > > Just update the file with higher serial number and try to repush the > update. > I did, sorry, I didn't make that clear. To be safe, I incremented by one and reloaded bind. Same deal. Regardless, the change in IP happened some time ago... Loooong past the TTL and several serial numbers ago. I didn't catch it though because the 119 address stayed valid. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 18:50:10 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Dumb bind question In-Reply-To: <4ABD00A8.6020006-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABCEF4D.60904@alteeve.com> <4ABCF418.2080707@alteeve.com> <4ABD00A8.6020006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Sep 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > I did, sorry, I didn't make that clear. To be safe, I > incremented by one and reloaded bind. Same deal. Ah, now I see that these are 2 official DNS of the domain. Official name servers' IP addresses are setup in registrar, not in the name server (otherwise how people find it?). So check your registar and change the IP address of those name servers there (in some registrar they are called host settings or something like that). -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 18:59:38 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:59:38 -0400 Subject: Solved (I think): Re:Dumb bind question In-Reply-To: <4ABD00A8.6020006-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABCEF4D.60904@alteeve.com> <4ABCF418.2080707@alteeve.com> <4ABD00A8.6020006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4ABD131A.60901@alteeve.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: >> On Fri, 25 Sep 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> Indeed you are right, and that was an old copy (hence the type), but >>> the NS section's syntax was the same. >> >> Just update the file with higher serial number and try to repush the >> update. >> > > I did, sorry, I didn't make that clear. To be safe, I incremented by one > and reloaded bind. Same deal. Regardless, the change in IP happened some > time ago... Loooong past the TTL and several serial numbers ago. I > didn't catch it though because the 119 address stayed valid. > > Madi My registrar DNS entries were 'ns[1|2].alteeve.com' for my alteeve.com domain... No area to enter an IP address directly. However, when I went to update the DNS entries, it asked me for IPs for the two NS. I re-entered them with the new IPs and now it seems to work. *sigh* Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 19:01:17 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:01:17 -0400 Subject: Dumb bind question In-Reply-To: References: <4ABCEF4D.60904@alteeve.com> <4ABCF418.2080707@alteeve.com> <4ABD00A8.6020006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4ABD137D.4070906@alteeve.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Fri, 25 Sep 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: >> I did, sorry, I didn't make that clear. To be safe, I incremented by >> one and reloaded bind. Same deal. > > Ah, now I see that these are 2 official DNS of the domain. Official name > servers' IP addresses are setup in registrar, not in the name server > (otherwise how people find it?). So check your registar and change the > IP address of those name servers there (in some registrar they are > called host settings or something like that). Simultaneous solution! I got tripped up because the registrar only shows the names, not the IPs. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 19:11:42 2009 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Wiki recommendation? Message-ID: <520122.6700.qm@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello, I've used several wiki systems in the past, I'm looking for recommendations for an open source wiki with hopefully these wish list: - simple wiki system (tree structure of docs) for a small team on LAMP-style stack, no bloated CMS, Java (gag) etc - ability to input text with "rich controls" (markup editor) - plus: ability to also store files online - plus: tagging system If it's in python over SQLite (versus say PHP over Mysql) that would really make my day :-) I'm looking now into Trac, TWiki and MoinMoin, any suggestions, recommendations, etc? Thanks, Fernando --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 19:40:12 2009 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:40:12 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [lpi-ontario] LPI ExamLab Toronto & Promotions] In-Reply-To: References: <4AB3FB6C.4020203@lpi.org> <4ABAB73E.8000103@linuxcaffe.ca> <4ABABCD1.8060805@gmail.com> <1253752468.16582.66.camel@hatsya.starnix.com> Message-ID: <1253907612.14652.7.camel@hatsya.starnix.com> On Thu, 2009-09-24 at 13:32 -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Thanks Matt for the offer, unfortunately I will not be able to drop > by. However, I did a quick looking around and came by some information > that should prove helpful for the LP1 exam. > > Others who might be interested can find it here: > > http://www.happy-monkey.net/LPI/html/ These are for the pre-2009 version of the objectives. Anyone using this as a resource should cross reference the material with the official objectives on the LPI web site. Do it before you start. The first section in the happy monkey stuff is on a lot of hardware junk that's not in the exam any longer. ;) Regards, --matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 19:47:11 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:47:11 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: References: <4ABBB1AC.8000703@alteeve.com> <1253815258.16549.96.camel@bliss.ss.org> <4ABBB5D0.5020708@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090925194711.GA30888@yam.witteman.ca> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 02:55:02PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >On 9/24/09, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Maureen Thornton wrote: >>> Would be very interesting to hear if you even get any replies! >>> Maureen >> >> So far, only Ignatieff's office has even sent an auto-reply. :) >> >> If I hear anything, I'll pass it on. I received auto-responses from Layton and Ignatieff, and I have now received this from Jack Layton's office: Thank you for writing me with your concern over broadband competition in Canada. New Democrats recognize that high quality, affordable, and across-the-board access to broadband internet is an important factor in Canada's innovation and technology agenda for the foreseeable future. I fully agree with the many Canadians writing me that the presence of competition to provide broadband service plays a key role in the economy of tomorrow. Furthermore, I believe that the policy direction of the federal government should be focused on fostering, not stifling, as much competition as possible. My caucus colleague, Charlie Angus, is the New Democrats' Critic for Digital Issues. He has led the way in Parliament on internet-related issues like this one. To find out more about his work, please visit: http://charlieangus.net. Again, thank you for your message. Please visit our website at www.ndp.ca to learn the latest about our team of New Democrats. All the best. Sincerely, Jack Layton, MP (Toronto-Danforth) Leader, Canada's New Democrats -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 19:51:37 2009 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:51:37 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [lpi-ontario] LPI ExamLab Toronto & Promotions] In-Reply-To: <1253907612.14652.7.camel-EWWT1lLJxm2ye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <4AB3FB6C.4020203@lpi.org> <4ABAB73E.8000103@linuxcaffe.ca> <4ABABCD1.8060805@gmail.com> <1253752468.16582.66.camel@hatsya.starnix.com> <1253907612.14652.7.camel@hatsya.starnix.com> Message-ID: <4ABD1F49.5050905@the-wire.com> G. Matthew Rice wrote: > On Thu, 2009-09-24 at 13:32 -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: [ ... ] >> http://www.happy-monkey.net/LPI/html/ > > These are for the pre-2009 version of the objectives. Anyone using this > as a resource should cross reference the material with the official > objectives on the LPI web site. > Do it before you start. The first section in the happy monkey stuff is > on a lot of hardware junk that's not in the exam any longer. ;) Oh. Because later sections are up for adoption, waiting for somebody to write the text. The second section and a few following look useful. I'd be happy if somebody who knew filled in some of the later ones. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 20:15:14 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:15:14 -0400 Subject: Wiki recommendation? In-Reply-To: <520122.6700.qm-hghbPWfArVb5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <520122.6700.qm@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4ABD24D2.1010102@linuxcaffe.ca> Fernando Duran wrote: > Hello, > > I've used several wiki systems in the past, I'm looking for recommendations for an open source wiki with hopefully these wish list: > We used trac, long ago, and it was good. We use RedMine now, and it's great. Ruby, not python, but very good. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 25 21:34:43 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:34:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: discarding 17" CRT Message-ID: I'm going to take this CRT to the Environment Day tomorrow unless someone tells me they want it before then. Goldstar Studioworks 78i Manufactured 1996. Spcifications (courtesy of the wayback machine): http://web.archive.org/web/20000122072358/http://www.lgeservice.com/78i.html Highlights: - 1600x1280 @ 66Hz - VGA and BNC connectors -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 26 03:05:10 2009 From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matthew Middleton) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:05:10 -0400 Subject: Wiki recommendation? In-Reply-To: <520122.6700.qm-hghbPWfArVb5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <520122.6700.qm@web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Fernando, I've used MediaWiki for a while, and I've been really happy with it, but it's PHP-based. The rich controls aren't the most fantastic, but there are plenty of good add-ins available for that sort of thing. Cheers! Matt -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Fernando Duran Sent: September 25, 2009 3:12 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Wiki recommendation? Hello, I've used several wiki systems in the past, I'm looking for recommendations for an open source wiki with hopefully these wish list: - simple wiki system (tree structure of docs) for a small team on LAMP-style stack, no bloated CMS, Java (gag) etc - ability to input text with "rich controls" (markup editor) - plus: ability to also store files online - plus: tagging system If it's in python over SQLite (versus say PHP over Mysql) that would really make my day :-) I'm looking now into Trac, TWiki and MoinMoin, any suggestions, recommendations, etc? Thanks, Fernando --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.112/2394 - Release Date: 09/25/09 05:51:00 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 26 05:00:11 2009 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 01:00:11 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: References: <4ABC56D5.40908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4ABD9FDB.8040102@rogers.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Fri, 25 Sep 2009, Yanni Chiu wrote: >> His contention is that wholesalers just resell Bell's internet >> service, and thus are not true competitors. > > He is not correct. AFAIK the ISP (or at least the ones I know) usually > manage their own backends. Probably more accurate that they use Bell > services, but not all their services come from Bell, and therefore not a > simple reseller. There's no correct or incorrect, just a difference of opinion on what is a competitor. From other responses I see that there once was a competitor that connected at the last mile - namely, Sprint, before they withdrew from the Canadian market, by selling to Rogers. So it is possible for competitors to access this semi-public last mile infrastructure. I agree that a good solution would be that Sympatico be separated from Bell, and to have all other ISPs given the same access that Sympatico would have. What's not clear to me is whether or not the infrastructure that is currently sold wholesale to other ISPs should belong to the Bell side or the Sympatico side. If it falls under the Sympatico side, then other ISPs are going to be in the same noose. -- Yanni -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 26 05:53:58 2009 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 01:53:58 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4ABC56D5.40908-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABC56D5.40908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1253944438.28537.1336705861@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:36 -0400, "Yanni Chiu" wrote: > In another mailing list I'm on, someone is defending Bell's position. > I'd like to have the opinion of people here. His contention is that > wholesalers just resell Bell's internet service, and thus are not true > competitors. He contends that a true competitor would locate equipment > inside Bell's central office switches, so as to gain access to the "last > mile", and that equipment would connect to the Internet completely > independently of Bell (instead of the current wholesale ISP situation). > He add's that such a competitor may face obstacles from Bell when trying > to gain access to the central offices though. > > So I'm wondering, is Bell required to provide access to their central > office switches to allow competitors to access the "last mile"? > > Is it reasonable that only the "last mile" should be open to > competition, or should the "last 10 miles" be open (i.e. the 10 miles > that separate all the central switches from the big internet pipes). I remember reading an article a few months ago detailing an emerging problem which could eventually make access to the central office moot: those roadside telephone wiring cabinets (I don't know the technical name, sorry) which are increasingly popping up, particularly in new residential developments. As I remember it, these essentially function like remote extensions of the central office, and in cases where one of these is deployed, the "last mile" connection is only available from this box, not from the central office itself. Additionally, as I remember it, the article stated that competitors do *not* have to be provided access to these new cabinets, and it surmised that Bell was building more and more of these with the specific intent to deny competitors access to the "last mile" in the future. I've been trying to locate the original article again with no success so far, but if I find it again sometime within the next couple of days, I'll post a link to it here (with apologies for any wrong information I've given here, if any). Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 26 06:42:55 2009 From: slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:42:55 +0200 Subject: [OT] Money starts to talk in YankeeDoodleDom Message-ID: <87hbuq2ols.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Following up on the poster who, I believe, lauded the US position on "net-neutrality" Six Republican senators have introduced an amendment that would block the Federal Communications Commission from implementing its recently announced Net neutrality policy............ Article at : http://www.prisonplanet.com//gop-senators-declare-war-on-net-neutrality.html -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 26 07:34:53 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 03:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <1253944438.28537.1336705861-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABC56D5.40908@rogers.com> <1253944438.28537.1336705861@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: | From: Amanda Yilmaz | I remember reading an article a few months ago detailing an emerging | problem which could eventually make access to the central office moot: | those roadside telephone wiring cabinets (I don't know the technical | name, sorry) which are increasingly popping up, particularly in new | residential developments. This may or may not be what has happened in my neighbourhood (Yonge and York Mills -- not a new development). It used to be that the CO was so far away (by wire) that ADSL was slow. I forget the figure, but 5km might be it. Perhaps a year ago, Bell started offering me ADSL2 (but the competitive ADSL vendors have not and perhaps cannot). I think that this is "fibre to the X" where X is probably "node". As a side effect, my ordinary ADSL (from whoever just took over look.ca's ADSL business) has improved. Yipee! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 02:22:26 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:22:26 -0400 Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools Message-ID: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> I am thinking of writing a ebook, possibly even something for publishing. It's just an idea I am kicking around and I was wondering what is a good tool that I can use to create public quality documents? -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 02:28:41 2009 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:28:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: <4AC01DE2.6010901-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Sep 2009, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I am thinking of writing a ebook, possibly even something for publishing. It's > just an idea I am kicking around and I was wondering what is a good tool that > I can use to create public quality documents? For an e-book, I would write it in HTML. For that, all you need is a text editor. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 03:44:23 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:44:23 -0400 Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC03117.2050601@gmail.com> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Sun, 27 Sep 2009, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > >> I am thinking of writing a ebook, possibly even something for publishing. It's >> just an idea I am kicking around and I was wondering what is a good tool that >> I can use to create public quality documents? > > For an e-book, I would write it in HTML. For that, all you need is > a text editor. > Hi Chris, Currently I am using HTML to do my own write up. However I am looking for a tool that will create a table of content automatically and allow me to export the document in different formats, like html or pdf or plain text. I know DocBook format is one such tool, but I am wondering what the print publisher use? For your published book with Apress, did you write the entire book in html and hand this over to them for printing. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 04:33:45 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:33:45 -0400 Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Sun, 27 Sep 2009, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > >> I am thinking of writing a ebook, possibly even something for publishing. It's >> just an idea I am kicking around and I was wondering what is a good tool that >> I can use to create public quality documents? > > ? For an e-book, I would write it in HTML. For that, all you need is > ? a text editor. Let me disagree, at least lightly... If you write in HTML, you'll be tempted to use HTML features, notably linking, which is pretty unamenable to the rather "ultimately serial" form of books. The last time I was working on a book (it's gone astray, due to collaborators being too busy for completion...), we were using Lyx . Lyx is pretty suitable for *not* encouraging bad habits surrounding engagement in physical layout. And it can generate a reasonable variety of output formats... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Charles de Gaulle - "The better I get to know men, the more I find myself loving dogs." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/charles_de_gaulle.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 05:55:33 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:54:33 -0701 Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420909272255u39c0c42fibf220294390ed051@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > The last time I was working on a book (it's gone astray, due to > collaborators being too busy for completion...), we were using Lyx > . > > Lyx is pretty suitable for *not* encouraging bad habits surrounding > engagement in physical layout. > > And it can generate a reasonable variety of output formats... I'll second Lyx. I've never written anything so ambitious as a book, but I used Lyx to take notes in the second half of university so I've spent a lot of time with it. The printed output is _very_ pleasing to the eye. Also, the tool itself is really nice--it lets you focus on the content and structure of the document and takes care of all the messy formatting for you. I'm not sure what kind of web-friendly output you can generate, but you might be able to convert the LaTeX, PDF, or PostScript output to HTML using some sort of filter. Also, if your book has even the slightest whiff of math in it, you can't beat the equation editor in Lyx. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 06:54:29 2009 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: <4AC03117.2050601-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> <4AC03117.2050601@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Sep 2009, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > On Sun, 27 Sep 2009, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > > > > I am thinking of writing a ebook, possibly even something for publishing. > > > It's > > > just an idea I am kicking around and I was wondering what is a good tool > > > that > > > I can use to create public quality documents? > > > > For an e-book, I would write it in HTML. For that, all you need is > > a text editor. > > Currently I am using HTML to do my own write up. However I am looking for a > tool that will create a table of content automatically and allow me to export > the document in different formats, like html or pdf or plain text. > > I know DocBook format is one such tool, but I am wondering what the print > publisher use? For your published book with Apress, did you write the entire > book in html and hand this over to them for printing. Unfortunately, Apress requires the manuscripts in MS Word .doc format. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 06:57:35 2009 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Sep 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson > wrote: > > On Sun, 27 Sep 2009, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > > >> I am thinking of writing a ebook, possibly even something for publishing.. It's > >> just an idea I am kicking around and I was wondering what is a good tool that > >> I can use to create public quality documents? > > > > For an e-book, I would write it in HTML. For that, all you need is > > a text editor. > > Let me disagree, at least lightly... > > If you write in HTML, you'll be tempted to use HTML features, notably > linking, which is pretty unamenable to the rather "ultimately serial" > form of books. > > The last time I was working on a book (it's gone astray, due to > collaborators being too busy for completion...), we were using Lyx > . > > Lyx is pretty suitable for *not* encouraging bad habits surrounding > engagement in physical layout. HTML has nothing to do with physical layout. > And it can generate a reasonable variety of output formats... True. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 12:04:16 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: coming soon to an OLF lecture room near you ... Message-ID: currently trying to convince her to give a talk at this year's ontario linux fest: http://www.nuxeo.com/en/about/news/cheryl-mckinnon-as-cmo rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 12:27:43 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Media Tomb Message-ID: <702420.99114.qm@web88102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Anyone use this media server? I set it up and I have two problems. 1) It converted all my flac files to ogg files 2) When I access it from my PS3 I see everything in the database except the tracks! I see artist and album only. I did set up transcoding for the flac files. Can anyone recommend a linux client to connect to Media Tomb that plays flac files? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 15:31:04 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:31:04 -0400 Subject: Problem installilng new nvidia drivers Message-ID: <20090928113104.244b945d@teksavvy.com> On my home desktop a kernel upgrade had me without corresponding nvidia drivers, so with Lennart's suggestions I was able to build a new nvidia-kernel and install the newer drivers like so: apt-get -t unstable install nvidia-kernel-source m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx Worked great. Now on a laptop I'm working on, same situation ie. the kernel got upgraded but not nvidia, so I followed the same steps, but instead of installing the newer 185.x drivers, it still went and installed 173.x, which of course causes an error when X attempts to start. What could be causing this difference? -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 15:44:12 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:44:12 -0400 Subject: Problem installilng new nvidia drivers In-Reply-To: <20090928113104.244b945d-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090928113104.244b945d@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880909280844h17ce24d1s91b6a042035af376@mail.gmail.com> Hi Joe, Are you sure that it didn't install? I've had issues where both kernel drivers were installed, and when X started to load it loaded the wrong version. Can you uninstall the nvidia drivers that were installed by the kernel? Thats what I did on my ubuntu install so it would not happen again. On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM, JoeHill wrote: > > On my home desktop a kernel upgrade had me without corresponding nvidia > drivers, so with Lennart's suggestions I was able to build a new nvidia-kernel > and install the newer drivers like so: > > apt-get -t unstable install nvidia-kernel-source > m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia > apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx > > Worked great. > > Now on a laptop I'm working on, same situation ie. the kernel got upgraded but > not nvidia, so I followed the same steps, but instead of installing the newer > 185.x drivers, it still went and installed 173.x, which of course causes an > error when X attempts to start. > > What could be causing this difference? > > -- > J > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 16:02:35 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:02:35 -0400 Subject: Problem installilng new nvidia drivers In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880909280844h17ce24d1s91b6a042035af376-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090928113104.244b945d@teksavvy.com> <32f6a8880909280844h17ce24d1s91b6a042035af376@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090928120235.2ded150c@teksavvy.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM, JoeHill wrote: > > > > On my home desktop a kernel upgrade had me without corresponding nvidia > > drivers, so with Lennart's suggestions I was able to build a new > > nvidia-kernel and install the newer drivers like so: > > > > apt-get -t unstable install nvidia-kernel-source > > m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia > > apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx > > > > Worked great. > > > > Now on a laptop I'm working on, same situation ie. the kernel got upgraded > > but not nvidia, so I followed the same steps, but instead of installing the > > newer 185.x drivers, it still went and installed 173.x, which of course > > causes an error when X attempts to start. > > > > What could be causing this difference? > Are you sure that it didn't install? I've had issues where both kernel > drivers were installed, and when X started to load it loaded the wrong > version. > > Can you uninstall the nvidia drivers that were installed by the > kernel? Thats what I did on my ubuntu install so it would not happen > again. On the last command, 'apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx', I saw it installing the wrong version. Previous to that, I had removed them. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 16:14:30 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:14:30 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4ABCB483.4060508-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABC56D5.40908@rogers.com> <4ABCB483.4060508@rogers.com> Message-ID: > A case could be made that Sympatico be completely severed from Bell, > with Bell providing only the pairs to them on the same basis as they > would any other ISP. ?At the moment there is a lot to be concerned about > in the telecom world in Canada, as the CRTC appears to be favouring the > major incumbents at the expense of competition. ?Net neutrality is > another critical area that comes to mind. Well said James. I saw an article on Globe and Mail this weekend where CRTC is actually opposing Globalive entry to Canada's telecom market. Apparently, there is a Canadian law that prohibit foreign companies from owning telcom companies in Canada. That would be okay if Canadian Telcom companies are working toward Canada's well being, but to me, that seems not to be the case. The odd thing though is its CRTC who are opposed to the idea. Could understand it if it was Rogers or Bell who do not like the idea. How is CRTC officials elected? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalive Regards, William > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 18:17:05 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:17:05 -0400 Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson > wrote: >> On Sun, 27 Sep 2009, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> >>> I am thinking of writing a ebook, possibly even something for publishing. It's >>> just an idea I am kicking around and I was wondering what is a good tool that >>> I can use to create public quality documents? >> >> ? For an e-book, I would write it in HTML. For that, all you need is >> ? a text editor. > > Let me disagree, at least lightly... > > If you write in HTML, you'll be tempted to use HTML features, notably > linking, which is pretty unamenable to the rather "ultimately serial" > form of books. > > The last time I was working on a book (it's gone astray, due to > collaborators being too busy for completion...), we were using Lyx > . > This is terrific, I think I will download this tonight and start to play around with it. > Lyx is pretty suitable for *not* encouraging bad habits surrounding > engagement in physical layout. > > And it can generate a reasonable variety of output formats... > -- -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav May the { source } be with you ! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 18:24:11 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:24:11 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <1253815258.16549.96.camel-Cc8bTzyuDCFg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABBB1AC.8000703@alteeve.com> <1253815258.16549.96.camel@bliss.ss.org> Message-ID: <4AC0FF4B.5060902@alteeve.com> Maureen Thornton wrote: > Would be very interesting to hear if you even get any replies! > Maureen ----------- Industry Canada has conducted a public consultation and contacted provincial and territorial counterparts to seek their input. The department is engaged in a thorough analysis of the issues. As the matter will be decided by Cabinet, it would be inappropriate to comment on the merits of the CRTC decisions or any party's position. Kim Blain Constituency Assistant Office of Terence Young, MP Oakville ----------- Oh well. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 19:07:05 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:07:05 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4AC0FF4B.5060902-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABBB1AC.8000703@alteeve.com> <1253815258.16549.96.camel@bliss.ss.org> <4AC0FF4B.5060902@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4AC10959.20205@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > > ----------- > Industry Canada has conducted a public consultation and contacted > provincial and territorial counterparts to seek their input. The > department is engaged in a thorough analysis of the issues. > > As the matter will be decided by Cabinet, it would be inappropriate to > comment on the merits of the CRTC decisions or any party's position. > > Kim Blain > Constituency Assistant > Office of Terence Young, MP Oakville > ----------- > > Oh well. > > Madi Hardly surprising, given this quote from his official website: "Prior to entering public life, Terence was a manager at Bell Canada with various roles that developed his communication skills and government expertise. For example, as Government Affairs Manager, he was responsible for addressing privacy concerns liaison with social service agencies (such as women?s shelters and in Children?s Aid Societies) during the introduction of Call Display." If I was a Bell lobbyist, I'm pretty sure I'd know which office to pitch my tent in. http://www.terenceyoung.com/whoisterence.php John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 19:18:23 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:18:23 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4AC0FF4B.5060902-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABBB1AC.8000703@alteeve.com> <1253815258.16549.96.camel@bliss.ss.org> <4AC0FF4B.5060902@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 9/28/09, Madison Kelly wrote: > Maureen Thornton wrote: >> Would be very interesting to hear if you even get any replies! >> Maureen > > ----------- > Industry Canada has conducted a public consultation and contacted > provincial and territorial counterparts to seek their input. The > department is engaged in a thorough analysis of the issues. > > As the matter will be decided by Cabinet, it would be inappropriate to > comment on the merits of the CRTC decisions or any party's position. > > Kim Blain > Constituency Assistant > Office of Terence Young, MP Oakville > ----------- > > Oh well. > > Madi Well, sound to me like the next step should be to send mail to members of Cabinet, starting with the Prime Minister... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 19:23:54 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 15:23:54 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4AC10959.20205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABBB1AC.8000703@alteeve.com> <1253815258.16549.96.camel@bliss.ss.org> <4AC0FF4B.5060902@alteeve.com> <4AC10959.20205@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4AC10D4A.9070407@alteeve.com> John McGregor wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> >> ----------- >> Industry Canada has conducted a public consultation and contacted >> provincial and territorial counterparts to seek their input. The >> department is engaged in a thorough analysis of the issues. >> >> As the matter will be decided by Cabinet, it would be inappropriate to >> comment on the merits of the CRTC decisions or any party's position. >> >> Kim Blain >> Constituency Assistant >> Office of Terence Young, MP Oakville >> ----------- >> >> Oh well. >> >> Madi > Hardly surprising, given this quote from his official website: > "Prior to entering public life, Terence was a manager at Bell Canada > with various roles that developed his communication skills and > government expertise. For example, as Government Affairs Manager, he was > responsible for addressing privacy concerns liaison with social service > agencies (such as women?s shelters and in Children?s Aid Societies) > during the introduction of Call Display." > > If I was a Bell lobbyist, I'm pretty sure I'd know which office to pitch > my tent in. > http://www.terenceyoung.com/whoisterence.php > > John Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 20:25:42 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:25:42 -0400 Subject: Recent update broke postfix/dovecot Message-ID: <20090928202542.GA4188@yam.witteman.ca> I recently updated a Debian testing box, and now mail is not getting delivered to dovecot dovecot seems to be fine - I can log into it and check mail (after a tweak to the config file - but there don't seem to be any other tweaks required). postfix seems fine too - but I get "status=deferred (temporary failure)" messages all over the place. I'm at a loss as to what could be the problem. Anyone have any thoughts? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 21:34:39 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:34:39 -0400 Subject: Problem installilng new nvidia drivers In-Reply-To: <20090928120235.2ded150c-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090928113104.244b945d@teksavvy.com> <32f6a8880909280844h17ce24d1s91b6a042035af376@mail.gmail.com> <20090928120235.2ded150c@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280909281434k43cc067bq1da14733ab473714@mail.gmail.com> 2009/9/28 JoeHill : > Dave Germiquet wrote: > >> >> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM, JoeHill wrote: >> > >> > On my home desktop a kernel upgrade had me without corresponding nvidia >> > drivers, so with Lennart's suggestions I was able to build a new >> > nvidia-kernel and install the newer drivers like so: >> > >> > apt-get -t unstable install nvidia-kernel-source >> > m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia >> > apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx >> > >> > Worked great. >> > >> > Now on a laptop I'm working on, same situation ie. the kernel got upgraded >> > but not nvidia, so I followed the same steps, but instead of installing the >> > newer 185.x drivers, it still went and installed 173.x, which of course >> > causes an error when X attempts to start. >> > >> > What could be causing this difference? > >> Are you sure that it didn't install? I've had issues where both kernel >> drivers were installed, and when X started to load it loaded the wrong >> version. >> >> Can you uninstall the nvidia drivers that were installed by the >> kernel? Thats what I did on my ubuntu install so it would not happen >> again. > > On the last command, 'apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx', I saw it > installing the wrong version. Previous to that, I had removed them. I'm at work (and thus, sadly, at a Windows box) so I can't check the steps I went through for a similar upgrade at home ... but the first thing that comes to mind would be to check if the sources.list file has entries for "unstable". -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 21:36:13 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:36:13 -0400 Subject: non-interactive scripting Message-ID: <4AC12C4D.5010106@moores.ca> Hey all, I did some googling to find out how to write non-interactive script for creating GPG keys. I found it and now I have the following in my script cat <<-EOF | gpg --batch --quick-random --no-tty --gen-key %echo Generating a standard key Key-Type: DSA Key-Length: 1024 Subkey-Type: ELG-E Subkey-Length: 1024 Name-Real: rsync.net Name-Comment: $COMPANY Name-Email: $CONTACT_EMAIL Expire-Date: 0 Passphrase: $PASSPHRASE # Do a commit here, so that we can later print "done" :-) %commit %echo done EOF This all works, but there are a few things I can't figure out (and Mr. Google doesn't seem to be much help either. ). 1) what is with the minus sign between the double-less-than signs and the EOF? The code I found had it in, I'd expect it not to work with it there, but it does. Does it do anything? 2) what exactly do the percent signs mean in the body of the data being piped? Are they simply commands to GPG or do they have some special meaning in the context of the stdin redirection? 3) Why cannot I not accomplish the same thing by not using --batch and simply piping the answers to prompted questions in the same manor as above? I've tried. It doesn't work. I still get the prompts as if there never was any stdin redirect. I'd be very grateful to anyone who could enlighten me. cheers, darryl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 21:59:39 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:59:39 -0400 Subject: Problem installilng new nvidia drivers In-Reply-To: <1f13df280909281434k43cc067bq1da14733ab473714-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090928113104.244b945d@teksavvy.com> <32f6a8880909280844h17ce24d1s91b6a042035af376@mail.gmail.com> <20090928120235.2ded150c@teksavvy.com> <1f13df280909281434k43cc067bq1da14733ab473714@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > 2009/9/28 JoeHill : >> Dave Germiquet wrote: >> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM, JoeHill wrote: >>> > >>> > On my home desktop a kernel upgrade had me without corresponding nvidia >>> > drivers, so with Lennart's suggestions I was able to build a new >>> > nvidia-kernel and install the newer drivers like so: >>> > >>> > apt-get -t unstable install nvidia-kernel-source >>> > m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia >>> > apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx >>> > >>> > Worked great. >>> > >>> > Now on a laptop I'm working on, same situation ie. the kernel got upgraded >>> > but not nvidia, so I followed the same steps, but instead of installing the >>> > newer 185.x drivers, it still went and installed 173.x, which of course >>> > causes an error when X attempts to start. >>> > >>> > What could be causing this difference? >> >>> Are you sure that it didn't install? I've had issues where both kernel >>> drivers were installed, and when X started to load it loaded the wrong >>> version. >>> >>> Can you uninstall the nvidia drivers that were installed by the >>> kernel? Thats what I did on my ubuntu install so it would not happen >>> again. >> >> On the last command, 'apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx', I saw it >> installing the wrong version. Previous to that, I had removed them. > > I'm at work (and thus, sadly, at a Windows box) so I can't check the > steps I went through for a similar upgrade at home ... but the first > thing that comes to mind would be to check if the sources.list file > has entries for "unstable". Pardon my identity crisis... I'm positive it does, I was looking at that previously to see if it was set up correctly. Now, I also do not have the laptop in front of me, and I just realized I didn't check to see if /etc/apt/prefs was set up right. Would that make a difference when actually _specifying_ unstable on the command line though? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 22:17:44 2009 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:17:44 -0400 Subject: non-interactive scripting In-Reply-To: <4AC12C4D.5010106-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4AC12C4D.5010106@moores.ca> Message-ID: <1254176264.6233.6.camel@cougar-hardy> On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 17:36 -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > Hey all, > > I did some googling to find out how to write non-interactive script for > creating GPG keys. I found it and now I have the following in my script > > > cat <<-EOF | gpg --batch --quick-random --no-tty --gen-key > %echo Generating a standard key > Key-Type: DSA > Key-Length: 1024 > Subkey-Type: ELG-E > Subkey-Length: 1024 > Name-Real: rsync.net > Name-Comment: $COMPANY > Name-Email: $CONTACT_EMAIL > Expire-Date: 0 > Passphrase: $PASSPHRASE > # Do a commit here, so that we can later print "done" :-) > %commit > %echo done > EOF > > > > This all works, but there are a few things I can't figure out (and Mr. > Google doesn't seem to be much help either. ). > 1) what is with the minus sign between the double-less-than signs and > the EOF? The code I found had it in, I'd expect it not to work with it > there, but it does. Does it do anything? Indeed it does: with the dash before the EOF string, bash strips leading tab characters from each line of the "here" document. This lets you push the data out to the right so that it does not hide the indentation which shows the structure of your bash code. I find this feature really useful. I have nothing to offer on your other two questions. Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 22:24:44 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:24:44 -0400 Subject: non-interactive scripting In-Reply-To: <1254176264.6233.6.camel@cougar-hardy> References: <4AC12C4D.5010106@moores.ca> <1254176264.6233.6.camel@cougar-hardy> Message-ID: <4AC137AC.5070000@moores.ca> Terrence Enger wrote: > On Mon, 2009-09-28 at 17:36 -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: >> Hey all, >> >> I did some googling to find out how to write non-interactive script for >> creating GPG keys. I found it and now I have the following in my script >> >> >> cat <<-EOF | gpg --batch --quick-random --no-tty --gen-key >> %echo Generating a standard key >> Key-Type: DSA >> Key-Length: 1024 >> Subkey-Type: ELG-E >> Subkey-Length: 1024 >> Name-Real: rsync.net >> Name-Comment: $COMPANY >> Name-Email: $CONTACT_EMAIL >> Expire-Date: 0 >> Passphrase: $PASSPHRASE >> # Do a commit here, so that we can later print "done" :-) >> %commit >> %echo done >> EOF >> >> >> >> This all works, but there are a few things I can't figure out (and Mr. >> Google doesn't seem to be much help either. ). >> 1) what is with the minus sign between the double-less-than signs and >> the EOF? The code I found had it in, I'd expect it not to work with it >> there, but it does. Does it do anything? > > Indeed it does: with the dash before the EOF string, bash strips > leading tab characters from each line of the "here" document. This lets > you push the data out to the right so that it does not hide the > indentation which shows the structure of your bash code. I find this > feature really useful. > Fabulous. Thanks. Now knowing that, I've been able to make some better focused google searches and come up with more examples. I'll file this tidbit away for future use. cheers, darryl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 22:26:54 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:26:54 -0400 Subject: Still fighting against telco's limiting other ISP In-Reply-To: <4AC0FF4B.5060902-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4ABBB1AC.8000703@alteeve.com> <1253815258.16549.96.camel@bliss.ss.org> <4AC0FF4B.5060902@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Maureen Thornton wrote: >> >> Would be very interesting to hear if you even get any replies! >> Maureen > > ----------- > Industry Canada has conducted a public consultation and contacted provincial > and territorial counterparts to seek their input. ?The department is engaged > in a thorough analysis of the issues. > > As the matter will be decided by Cabinet, it would be inappropriate to > comment on the merits of the CRTC decisions or any party's position. > > Kim Blain > Constituency Assistant > Office of Terence Young, MP Oakville > ----------- > > Oh well. On the "up side," this *does* offer a reasonably straightforward indication of where the decision is to be made (e.g. - Cabinet). That's preferable to there being some pretense at the matter being decided at other levels, or them offering evasiveness about such. It also points at an interesting question, namely: How *would* you try to go about influencing the Conservative cabinet? With the entertaining unstated givens: "Stipulated that I didn't vote for them, and stipulated that my entire geographic region didn't vote for them, at least not to the point of electing any of them..." Toronto's in the somewhat entertaining position of NOT having any influence on the government in power. And I have to comment, "if you didn't vote for them, you can't have terribly high expectations." I realize that the thought of voting for the Conservatives is likely anathema to a vast majority of people here... Those that *imagine* themselves to be imaginative people should try to imagine what would cause them to choose to do so... If you can't imagine that far, then perhaps you're not as imaginative than you imagined. Or so I imagine... :-) At any rate, thinking that "far out of the GTA box" seems like an interesting idea... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Pablo Picasso - "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 28 23:42:09 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:42:09 -0400 Subject: Problem installilng new nvidia drivers In-Reply-To: <1f13df280909281434k43cc067bq1da14733ab473714-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090928113104.244b945d@teksavvy.com> <32f6a8880909280844h17ce24d1s91b6a042035af376@mail.gmail.com> <20090928120235.2ded150c@teksavvy.com> <1f13df280909281434k43cc067bq1da14733ab473714@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > 2009/9/28 JoeHill : >> Dave Germiquet wrote: >> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM, JoeHill wrote: >>> > >>> > On my home desktop a kernel upgrade had me without corresponding nvidia >>> > drivers, so with Lennart's suggestions I was able to build a new >>> > nvidia-kernel and install the newer drivers like so: >>> > >>> > apt-get -t unstable install nvidia-kernel-source >>> > m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia >>> > apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx >>> > >>> > Worked great. >>> > >>> > Now on a laptop I'm working on, same situation ie. the kernel got upgraded >>> > but not nvidia, so I followed the same steps, but instead of installing the >>> > newer 185.x drivers, it still went and installed 173.x, which of course >>> > causes an error when X attempts to start. >>> > >>> > What could be causing this difference? >> >>> Are you sure that it didn't install? I've had issues where both kernel >>> drivers were installed, and when X started to load it loaded the wrong >>> version. >>> >>> Can you uninstall the nvidia drivers that were installed by the >>> kernel? Thats what I did on my ubuntu install so it would not happen >>> again. >> >> On the last command, 'apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx', I saw it >> installing the wrong version. Previous to that, I had removed them. > > I'm at work (and thus, sadly, at a Windows box) so I can't check the > steps I went through for a similar upgrade at home ... but the first > thing that comes to mind would be to check if the sources.list file > has entries for "unstable". > Here are the relevant files: sources.list eb http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ testing main non-free contrib deb-src http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ testing main non-free contrib deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main deb-src http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile testing/volatile main deb-src http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile testing/volatile main deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org testing main deb-src http://www.debian-multimedia.org testing main #unstable deb http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib deb-src http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib and /etc/apt/preferences: Package: * Pin: release a=testing Pin-Priority: 900 Package: 9 Pin: release a=unstable Pin-Priority: 800 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 29 00:39:24 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:39:24 -0400 Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: <7ac602420909272255u39c0c42fibf220294390ed051-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> <7ac602420909272255u39c0c42fibf220294390ed051@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC1573C.1040400@gmail.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> The last time I was working on a book (it's gone astray, due to >> collaborators being too busy for completion...), we were using Lyx >> . >> >> Lyx is pretty suitable for *not* encouraging bad habits surrounding >> engagement in physical layout. >> >> And it can generate a reasonable variety of output formats... > > I'll second Lyx. I've never written anything so ambitious as a book, > but I used Lyx to take notes in the second half of university so I've > spent a lot of time with it. The printed output is _very_ pleasing to > the eye. Also, the tool itself is really nice--it lets you focus on > the content and structure of the document and takes care of all the > messy formatting for you. I'm not sure what kind of web-friendly > output you can generate, but you might be able to convert the LaTeX, > PDF, or PostScript output to HTML using some sort of filter. Also, if > your book has even the slightest whiff of math in it, you can't beat > the equation editor in Lyx. I know what you mean by very pleasing to the eyes, just playing with it now and I am loving this tool. Going to write my notes using Lyx from now on =) > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 29 06:14:04 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:14:04 -0400 Subject: Problem installilng new nvidia drivers In-Reply-To: References: <20090928113104.244b945d@teksavvy.com> <32f6a8880909280844h17ce24d1s91b6a042035af376@mail.gmail.com> <20090928120235.2ded150c@teksavvy.com> <1f13df280909281434k43cc067bq1da14733ab473714@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090929021404.752b29fe@teksavvy.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > > 2009/9/28 JoeHill : > >> Dave Germiquet wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM, JoeHill wrote: > >>> > > >>> > On my home desktop a kernel upgrade had me without corresponding nvidia > >>> > drivers, so with Lennart's suggestions I was able to build a new > >>> > nvidia-kernel and install the newer drivers like so: > >>> > > >>> > apt-get -t unstable install nvidia-kernel-source > >>> > m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia > >>> > apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx > >>> > > >>> > Worked great. > >>> > > >>> > Now on a laptop I'm working on, same situation ie. the kernel got > >>> > upgraded but not nvidia, so I followed the same steps, but instead of > >>> > installing the newer 185.x drivers, it still went and installed 173.x, > >>> > which of course causes an error when X attempts to start. > >>> > > >>> > What could be causing this difference? > >> > >>> Are you sure that it didn't install? I've had issues where both kernel > >>> drivers were installed, and when X started to load it loaded the wrong > >>> version. > >>> > >>> Can you uninstall the nvidia drivers that were installed by the > >>> kernel? Thats what I did on my ubuntu install so it would not happen > >>> again. > >> > >> On the last command, 'apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx', I saw it > >> installing the wrong version. Previous to that, I had removed them. > > > > I'm at work (and thus, sadly, at a Windows box) so I can't check the > > steps I went through for a similar upgrade at home ... but the first > > thing that comes to mind would be to check if the sources.list file > > has entries for "unstable". > > > Here are the relevant files: > > sources.list > > eb http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ testing main non-free contrib > deb-src http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ testing main non-free contrib > > deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main > deb-src http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main > > deb http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile testing/volatile main > deb-src http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile testing/volatile main > > deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org testing main > > deb-src http://www.debian-multimedia.org testing main > > #unstable > > deb http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib > deb-src http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib > > and /etc/apt/preferences: > > Package: * > Pin: release a=testing > Pin-Priority: 900 > > Package: 9 > Pin: release a=unstable > Pin-Priority: 800 lol! okay, I think I see the problem...duh. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 29 07:08:34 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 03:08:34 -0400 Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: <7ac602420909272255u39c0c42fibf220294390ed051-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> <7ac602420909272255u39c0c42fibf220294390ed051@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC1B272.8040903@gmail.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> The last time I was working on a book (it's gone astray, due to >> collaborators being too busy for completion...), we were using Lyx >> . >> >> Lyx is pretty suitable for *not* encouraging bad habits surrounding >> engagement in physical layout. >> >> And it can generate a reasonable variety of output formats... > > I'll second Lyx. I've never written anything so ambitious as a book, > but I used Lyx to take notes in the second half of university so I've > spent a lot of time with it. The printed output is _very_ pleasing to > the eye. Also, the tool itself is really nice--it lets you focus on > the content and structure of the document and takes care of all the > messy formatting for you. I'm not sure what kind of web-friendly > output you can generate, but you might be able to convert the LaTeX, > PDF, or PostScript output to HTML using some sort of filter. Also, if > your book has even the slightest whiff of math in it, you can't beat > the equation editor in Lyx. By any chance would you know how I could add source code and make it look good? My Ruby script snippets doesn't look too hot. > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 29 14:07:30 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:07:30 -0700 Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: <4AC1B272.8040903-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> <7ac602420909272255u39c0c42fibf220294390ed051@mail.gmail.com> <4AC1B272.8040903@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420909290707s4ad6f626ube17d41262adb2bc@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:08 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Ian Petersen wrote: >> >> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Christopher Browne >> wrote: >>> >>> The last time I was working on a book (it's gone astray, due to >>> collaborators being too busy for completion...), we were using Lyx >>> . >>> >>> Lyx is pretty suitable for *not* encouraging bad habits surrounding >>> engagement in physical layout. >>> >>> And it can generate a reasonable variety of output formats... >> >> I'll second Lyx. I've never written anything so ambitious as a book, >> but I used Lyx to take notes in the second half of university so I've >> spent a lot of time with it. The printed output is _very_ pleasing to >> the eye. Also, the tool itself is really nice--it lets you focus on >> the content and structure of the document and takes care of all the >> messy formatting for you. I'm not sure what kind of web-friendly >> output you can generate, but you might be able to convert the LaTeX, >> PDF, or PostScript output to HTML using some sort of filter. Also, if >> your book has even the slightest whiff of math in it, you can't beat >> the equation editor in Lyx. > > By any chance would you know how I could add source code and make it look > good? My Ruby script snippets doesn't look too hot. It's been ages so no, I don't remember. I think I did something like store the source in an external text file and include it in a verbatim section, or something, but that's a very fuzzy memory. When you have the time to read the manual, do so--it's really good and it's written as a Lyx document so you can see how they did everything. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 29 14:34:01 2009 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:34:01 -0400 Subject: Mount same ext3 filesystem in 2 places... at the same time Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I was fixing a problem for my customers where logins were hanging intermittently. Once they started hanging, I had to reboot the machine. I found this in /etc/fstab: grep /home /etc/fstab /dev/sdb1 /home ext3 acl,user_xattr 1 2 /dev/sdb1 /home2 ext3 acl,user_xattr 1 2 Only one user has that home located in /home2 And.... /home2 is exported via NFS... Still being a #NIX newbie, thought I ought to pose the question: Can an ext3 filesystem be mounted in 2 places at the same time? Thanks! JohnM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 29 15:00:10 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:00:10 -0400 Subject: Mount same ext3 filesystem in 2 places... at the same time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: John > > Still being a #NIX newbie, thought I ought to pose the question: > > Can an ext3 filesystem be mounted in 2 places at the same time? > No, unless you want data corruption. Only cluster aware file system like gfs can safely be mounted in multiple points > Thanks! > > JohnM > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 29 15:51:36 2009 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 08:51:36 -0700 Subject: non-interactive scripting In-Reply-To: <4AC12C4D.5010106-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4AC12C4D.5010106@moores.ca> Message-ID: <712ca2da0909290851j2eea9ae3pdc0cb7ebe9c7a108@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Darryl Moore wrote: > 3) Why cannot I not accomplish the same thing by not using --batch and > simply piping the answers to prompted questions in the same manor as > above? I've tried. It doesn't work. I still get the prompts as if there > never was any stdin redirect. gpg is probably like ssh in that it read/writes directly to the terminal device rather than stdin/stdout. That's why you need to use something like expect or pexpect (python version) to script running ssh (with a password prompt, that is) because it emulates a terminal. Basically any program that looks like it's just doing stdin/stdout but does things like masking your password when you type it in (or just not showing any characters at all) is hooked directly into the terminal device. I'm sure others here are more versed in the specifics of TTYs and PseudoTTYs. Reading/writing directly to the terminal device is supposed to be more secure though other than password masking I'm not sure why. I remember there being a brief blurb about this in pexpect (which is where I first picked up this knowledge, IIRC). When you use the --batch switch you're telling it that you're going to be using redirection so it needs to use stdin/stdout. -- Brandon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 29 16:41:14 2009 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:41:14 -0400 Subject: Mount same ext3 filesystem in 2 places... at the same time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I thought that must be the case. What exactly causes the corruption (out of curiosity, and only if you have a moment). JohnM On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:00 AM, William Muriithi < william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote: > John > > > > Still being a #NIX newbie, thought I ought to pose the question: > > > > Can an ext3 filesystem be mounted in 2 places at the same time? > > > No, unless you want data corruption. > > Only cluster aware file system like gfs can safely be mounted in multiple > points > > > Thanks! > > > > JohnM > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 29 16:51:46 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:51:46 -0400 Subject: non-interactive scripting In-Reply-To: <712ca2da0909290851j2eea9ae3pdc0cb7ebe9c7a108-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AC12C4D.5010106@moores.ca> <712ca2da0909290851j2eea9ae3pdc0cb7ebe9c7a108@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC23B22.8070905@moores.ca> Cool, thanks. I'd never heard of expect before, but now I've found more information on it here: http://wiki.tcl.tk/201 This is all good info to know. cheers, darryl Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Darryl Moore wrote: >> 3) Why cannot I not accomplish the same thing by not using --batch and >> simply piping the answers to prompted questions in the same manor as >> above? I've tried. It doesn't work. I still get the prompts as if there >> never was any stdin redirect. > > gpg is probably like ssh in that it read/writes directly to the > terminal device rather than stdin/stdout. That's why you need to use > something like expect or pexpect (python version) to script running > ssh (with a password prompt, that is) because it emulates a terminal. > Basically any program that looks like it's just doing stdin/stdout but > does things like masking your password when you type it in (or just > not showing any characters at all) is hooked directly into the > terminal device. I'm sure others here are more versed in the specifics > of TTYs and PseudoTTYs. Reading/writing directly to the terminal > device is supposed to be more secure though other than password > masking I'm not sure why. > > I remember there being a brief blurb about this in pexpect (which is > where I first picked up this knowledge, IIRC). > > When you use the --batch switch you're telling it that you're going to > be using redirection so it needs to use stdin/stdout. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 29 16:54:50 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:54:50 -0400 Subject: Mount same ext3 filesystem in 2 places... at the same time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2009/9/29 John Miles : > I thought that must be the case. > > What exactly causes the corruption (out of curiosity, and only if you have a > moment). Think of it like a file. Now if you open the file with two editors, both can not write as they would can never be sure what the other editor is changing. File editors solve this being opening the file read only should the file already be in use. Filesystem however will allow you to change stuff should you insist on setting it up this way. Most of the time nothing bad happen because both mount point may not end up editing the same blocks. However, should that happen - like on a busy server - you are bound to get something you will not like > > JohnM > > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:00 AM, William Muriithi > wrote: >> >> John >> > >> > Still being a #NIX newbie, thought I ought to pose the question: >> > >> > Can an ext3 filesystem be mounted in 2 places at the same time? >> > >> No, unless you want data corruption. >> >> Only cluster aware file system like gfs can safely be mounted in multiple >> points >> >> > Thanks! >> > >> > JohnM >> > >> > >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From anton-P5WJPa9AKEc1GQ1Ptb7lUw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 00:58:09 2009 From: anton-P5WJPa9AKEc1GQ1Ptb7lUw at public.gmane.org (Anton Verevkin) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 04:58:09 +0400 Subject: Mount same ext3 filesystem in 2 places... at the same time Message-ID: <1389.1254272289@localhost> William, I would not be that sure about that. I've just tried such double-mount on my Debian system and it has mounted silently, with not even a single warning message. What I am trying to say is when both mounts happen in the same operating system/kernel, the developpers have all they need to forsee such situation and correctly manage both of them together. However I am not 100% sure they did. Please someone correct me if you know the details of FS-stuff in Linux kernel. Really bad things happen when a filesystem is mounted from two computers at a time (with SCSI bus, Fibre Channel or other methods that allow access to the same physical disk from several machines). In this case computers can not even guess that thay are not exclusive users of this filesystem and can corrupt it if both mounts are read-write. Anyway I would always suggest mounting filesystems only once as the best practice. If you later need its contents mirrored in another place you can always use mount with 'bind' option (or 'rbind' if you need access to mounted subdirectories). It is way more safe and flexible. Best regards, Anton Verevkin On Tue 29/09/09 12:00 , William Muriithi wrote: > John > > > > Still being a #NIX newbie, thought I ought to pose the question: > > > > Can an ext3 filesystem be mounted in 2 places at the same time? > > > No, unless you want data corruption. > Only cluster aware file system like gfs can safely be mounted in > multiple points > > Thanks! > > > > JohnM > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 01:18:34 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:18:34 -0400 Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: <7ac602420909290707s4ad6f626ube17d41262adb2bc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> <7ac602420909272255u39c0c42fibf220294390ed051@mail.gmail.com> <4AC1B272.8040903@gmail.com> <7ac602420909290707s4ad6f626ube17d41262adb2bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC2B1EA.7060409@gmail.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:08 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Ian Petersen wrote: >>> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Christopher Browne >>> wrote: >>>> The last time I was working on a book (it's gone astray, due to >>>> collaborators being too busy for completion...), we were using Lyx >>>> . >>>> >>>> Lyx is pretty suitable for *not* encouraging bad habits surrounding >>>> engagement in physical layout. >>>> >>>> And it can generate a reasonable variety of output formats... >>> I'll second Lyx. I've never written anything so ambitious as a book, >>> but I used Lyx to take notes in the second half of university so I've >>> spent a lot of time with it. The printed output is _very_ pleasing to >>> the eye. Also, the tool itself is really nice--it lets you focus on >>> the content and structure of the document and takes care of all the >>> messy formatting for you. I'm not sure what kind of web-friendly >>> output you can generate, but you might be able to convert the LaTeX, >>> PDF, or PostScript output to HTML using some sort of filter. Also, if >>> your book has even the slightest whiff of math in it, you can't beat >>> the equation editor in Lyx. >> By any chance would you know how I could add source code and make it look >> good? My Ruby script snippets doesn't look too hot. > > It's been ages so no, I don't remember. I think I did something like > store the source in an external text file and include it in a verbatim > section, or something, but that's a very fuzzy memory. When you have > the time to read the manual, do so--it's really good and it's written > as a Lyx document so you can see how they did everything.\ Thanks Ian, I will give that a try. I came across a command line tool called highlight. It's suppose to be able to convert source code into Tex and LaTex, unfortunately when I try to import it or insert Tex code I get undefined errors or something like that. I'll have to look into this later. I was able to modify my Ruby cheat sheet notes in Lyx and I really like the output =) > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 01:53:50 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:53:50 -0400 Subject: What is the integer limit for bash 4.0.28 arithmetic? Message-ID: <20090930015350.GA5668@waltdnes.org> "bash --version" tells me I'm running... GNU bash, version 4.0.28(1)-release (i686-pc-linux-gnu) In preparation for billing-by-the-byte, and with help from people on the Teksavvy forum on DSLreports, I was able to cobble together some perl code that queried my ST546 modem via telnet to get the exact number of bytes of traffic I use. It has separate numbers for loop, internet WAN, and local LAN traffic. The telnet commands are supposed to be the same for the 516 (the 1-port version) and my 546 (the 4-port version). I can post the code if people are interested. My question is... how large a number will bash (4.0.28(1)) integer arithmetic be able to handle? I can use "bc" if necessary, but prefer to use as few external programs as possible. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 02:08:52 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:08:52 -0400 Subject: Mount same ext3 filesystem in 2 places... at the same time In-Reply-To: <1389.1254272289@localhost> References: <1389.1254272289@localhost> Message-ID: <4AC2BDB4.2030505@rogers.com> Anton Verevkin wrote: > Really bad things happen when a filesystem is mounted from two computers at a time (with SCSI bus, Fibre > Channel or other methods that allow access to the same physical disk from several machines). In this case > computers can not even guess that thay are not exclusive users of this filesystem and can corrupt it if both > mounts are read-write. > I haven't worked with SCSI or fibre channel gear, but many years ago, I used to work on mini computers, which could share drives. On those systems, there was an interlock in the disk interface that prevented both computers from writing at the same time. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From anton-P5WJPa9AKEc1GQ1Ptb7lUw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 02:43:05 2009 From: anton-P5WJPa9AKEc1GQ1Ptb7lUw at public.gmane.org (Anton Verevkin) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 06:43:05 +0400 Subject: Mount same ext3 filesystem in 2 places... at the sametime Message-ID: <1494.1254278585@localhost> On Tue 29/09/09 23:08 , James Knott wrote: > I haven't worked with SCSI or fibre channel gear, but many years > ago, I > used to work on mini computers, which could share drives. On those > systems, there was an interlock in the disk interface that prevented > both computers from writing at the same time. I have recently tried to connect two computers with SCSI - just for a personal experiment. The articles that you can find in the Internet all say that this is theoretically possible, however, usually turns into many compatibility issues on practice. I used two exactly same Adaptec controllers with the same firmware version. I disabled termination on controllers, changed SCSI ID from the default on one of them and connected them and a shared hard disk with a SCSI cable which I terminated on both sides with hardware terminators. And surprisingly it worked without any problem. One computer had Gentoo, another one had FreeBSD. I created a vfat partition on the shared disk and both computers were able to read/write to it. But this is exactly the case when computers do not recognize that they are not alone using this partition. Though SCSI bus (and Fibre Channel as its successor) do handle the situation of simultaneous access to disk and have disk locking procedures, operating systems were not aware of changes made by another computer and I had to clear disk cache to see the changes made by another system. And of course simultaneous write could damage the data. I guess there might be some tools to teach the operating system to work in a team with other computers, and most probably this will turn to something like ZFS. But anyway we should always be very careful with these matters. Best regards, Anton Verevkin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 02:53:09 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:53:09 -0400 Subject: Mount same ext3 filesystem in 2 places... at the sametime In-Reply-To: <1494.1254278585@localhost> References: <1494.1254278585@localhost> Message-ID: <4AC2C815.1020304@rogers.com> Anton Verevkin wrote: > But this is exactly the case when computers do not recognize that they are not alone using > this partition. Though SCSI bus (and Fibre Channel as its successor) do handle the situation > of simultaneous access to disk and have disk locking procedures, operating systems were > not aware of changes made by another computer and I had to clear disk cache to see the > changes made by another system. And of course simultaneous write could damage the data. > > I guess there might be some tools to teach the operating system to work in a team with other > computers, and most probably this will turn to something like ZFS. But anyway we should > always be very careful with these matters. > > I wonder what would have happened if you had the same OS on both? In all the systems I've worked on, both computers ran the same OS. In mini computer systems, redundant systems sharing drives were common and this is the world Unix grew up in. The VAX 11/780 was a popular system for Unix and it supported dual access drives, such as the RP07, which had two interfaces for connecting to two computers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From anton-P5WJPa9AKEc1GQ1Ptb7lUw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 03:09:59 2009 From: anton-P5WJPa9AKEc1GQ1Ptb7lUw at public.gmane.org (Anton Verevkin) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 07:09:59 +0400 Subject: Mount same ext3 filesystem in 2 places... at the sametime Message-ID: <1913.1254280199@localhost> On Tue 29/09/09 23:53 , James Knott wrote: > I wonder what would have happened if you had the same OS on both? It would definitely depend on what these operating systems are. Neither Linux nor FreeBSD on both vfat and ext2 can correctly handle the shared disk. That field is still under proprietary OS's with much more complex filesystems. However some of them are already ported to Linux. Best regards, Anton Verevkin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 03:12:24 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:12:24 -0400 Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: <7ac602420909290707s4ad6f626ube17d41262adb2bc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> <7ac602420909272255u39c0c42fibf220294390ed051@mail.gmail.com> <4AC1B272.8040903@gmail.com> <7ac602420909290707s4ad6f626ube17d41262adb2bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC2CC98.20706@gmail.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:08 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Ian Petersen wrote: >>> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Christopher Browne >>> wrote: >>>> The last time I was working on a book (it's gone astray, due to >>>> collaborators being too busy for completion...), we were using Lyx >>>> . >>>> >>>> Lyx is pretty suitable for *not* encouraging bad habits surrounding >>>> engagement in physical layout. >>>> >>>> And it can generate a reasonable variety of output formats... >>> I'll second Lyx. I've never written anything so ambitious as a book, >>> but I used Lyx to take notes in the second half of university so I've >>> spent a lot of time with it. The printed output is _very_ pleasing to >>> the eye. Also, the tool itself is really nice--it lets you focus on >>> the content and structure of the document and takes care of all the >>> messy formatting for you. I'm not sure what kind of web-friendly >>> output you can generate, but you might be able to convert the LaTeX, >>> PDF, or PostScript output to HTML using some sort of filter. Also, if >>> your book has even the slightest whiff of math in it, you can't beat >>> the equation editor in Lyx. >> By any chance would you know how I could add source code and make it look >> good? My Ruby script snippets doesn't look too hot. > > It's been ages so no, I don't remember. I think I did something like > store the source in an external text file and include it in a verbatim > section, or something, but that's a very fuzzy memory. When you have > the time to read the manual, do so--it's really good and it's written > as a Lyx document so you can see how they did everything. Your talk got me motivated to look into this again and I was able to get the highlight tool producing cool colorized source code Tex that I was able to import into Lyx. Now my notes will look a bit more professional ;) > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 05:05:17 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 01:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: What is the integer limit for bash 4.0.28 arithmetic? In-Reply-To: <20090930015350.GA5668-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20090930015350.GA5668@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | My question is... how large a number will bash (4.0.28(1)) integer | arithmetic be able to handle? I can use "bc" if necessary, but prefer | to use as few external programs as possible. Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 00:56:57 -0400 (EDT) From: D. Hugh Redelmeier To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Slowing Linux to a crawl | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | It appears as if BASH uses 64-bit evaluation, so there appears to be | no immediate danger. I just booted another old box (see other threads). It has RHL 7.0 with BASH 2.04.11. This BASH uses 32-bit evaluation. With no reporting of overflow (conforming to the manual, but I think that this is unfortunate). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 05:07:11 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 01:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Mount same ext3 filesystem in 2 places... at the sametime In-Reply-To: <1494.1254278585@localhost> References: <1494.1254278585@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Sep 2009, Anton Verevkin wrote: > But this is exactly the case when computers do not recognize that they > are not alone using this partition. Though SCSI bus (and Fibre Channel > as its successor) do handle the situation of simultaneous access to disk > and have disk locking procedures, operating systems were not aware of > changes made by another computer and I had to clear disk cache to see > the changes made by another system. And of course simultaneous write > could damage the data. Hi Anton. What you need is a "clustered filesystem". This is a filesystem that is aware that it will be written to by multiple directly connected systems. Without a clustered filesystem writes will sooner or later cause filesystem corruption as you note. To do this cross-plaform you will need to find a clustered filesystem that is supported by all of the OSes you want to use. They do exist but not necessarily as OSS. > I guess there might be some tools to teach the operating system to work > in a team with other computers, and most probably this will turn to > something like ZFS. But anyway we should always be very careful with > these matters. ZFS is not a clustered filesystem (yet). Developing a clustered filesystem is a very complex proposition so I don't blame Sun for waiting until the non-clustered version is nice and stable. OpenSolaris offers the QFS clustered filesystem. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy http://www.practicalsysadmin.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 17:35:07 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:35:07 -0400 Subject: Problem installilng new nvidia drivers In-Reply-To: <20090928113104.244b945d-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090928113104.244b945d@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090930173507.GA22160@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 11:31:04AM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > On my home desktop a kernel upgrade had me without corresponding nvidia > drivers, so with Lennart's suggestions I was able to build a new nvidia-kernel > and install the newer drivers like so: > > apt-get -t unstable install nvidia-kernel-source > m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia > apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx > > Worked great. > > Now on a laptop I'm working on, same situation ie. the kernel got upgraded but > not nvidia, so I followed the same steps, but instead of installing the newer > 185.x drivers, it still went and installed 173.x, which of course causes an > error when X attempts to start. > > What could be causing this difference? Do you have unstable listed as a source in /etc/apt/sources.list? If not, then it can't get anything from unstable. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 17:44:40 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:44:40 -0400 Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090930174440.GB22160@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 02:17:05PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > This is terrific, I think I will download this tonight and start to > play around with it. Yes tex (and tetex and latex) are a very good method. Lyx is one way to write that (not one I ever got along with when I last looked at it, although that was years ago). docbook is the other common way to do things these days. Both work well. Word processors, html, etc do not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 17:49:23 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:49:23 -0400 Subject: Problem installilng new nvidia drivers In-Reply-To: <20090930173507.GA22160-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090928113104.244b945d@teksavvy.com> <20090930173507.GA22160@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 11:31:04AM -0400, JoeHill wrote: >> On my home desktop a kernel upgrade had me without corresponding nvidia >> drivers, so with Lennart's suggestions I was able to build a new nvidia-kernel >> and install the newer drivers like so: >> >> apt-get -t unstable install nvidia-kernel-source >> m-a clean,a-i -t nvidia >> apt-get install -t unstable nvidia-glx >> >> Worked great. >> >> Now on a laptop I'm working on, same situation ie. the kernel got upgraded but >> not nvidia, so I followed the same steps, but instead of installing the newer >> 185.x drivers, it still went and installed 173.x, which of course causes an >> error when X attempts to start. >> >> What could be causing this difference? > > Do you have unstable listed as a source in /etc/apt/sources.list? > If not, then it can't get anything from unstable. It turns out, I think, that I made a very very tiny but significant error in the pinning preferences. Where it should have said 'package *', I had 'package 9'. That could cause some problems, eh? ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 21:32:34 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: after a couple weeks break, new kernel newbie column Message-ID: written at high speed, in real time: http://cli.gs/18nDd7. enjoy. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 30 22:26:39 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:26:39 -0400 Subject: OT: ebook, print documentation tools In-Reply-To: <20090930174440.GB22160-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4AC01DE2.6010901@gmail.com> <20090930174440.GB22160@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AC3DB1F.2010106@gmail.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 02:17:05PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> This is terrific, I think I will download this tonight and start to >> play around with it. > > Yes tex (and tetex and latex) are a very good method. Lyx is one way > to write that (not one I ever got along with when I last looked at it, > although that was years ago). I know what you mean about not getting along with Lyx. I like the output of Lyx but then got a bit frustrated trying to figure out how to layout my code samples. I almost gave up on it, but then figured out how to do this after some not so fun searching. I'm not big on learning yet another language (Tex, Latex) just to write my own notes, with the possibility to expand into a book of some quality. > > docbook is the other common way to do things these days. I find docbook may be easier to do a few simple things with, and is built on SGML, From my initial gut feeling, I think LaTex is the way to go. I just don't want to go down the rabbit hole to learn LeTex commands =P I am trying to survive with the one command I discovered "\being{verbatim} ... \end{verbatim}" for formatted text such as source code. I found a cool code color highlight command line tool, but for the life of me I can't insert the generated Tex or Latex output without getting a bunch of errors! Yet I can import it into a empty Lyx doc and it will produce a PDF doc without any complaints, really stupid how Lyx works. I just got a reply from the author of Highlight pointing me to a link of how to include source code in Lyx. > > Both work well. Word processors, html, etc do not. > Well if you ask, Chris F.A. Johnson, he will tell you APress thinks MS Word processor works well ;) -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good ~ Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists