From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 1 19:40:05 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 14:40:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Gentoo performance benchmarked In-Reply-To: <1f13df280910310945u663333fbkc03bb8b8fa7738ad-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3d35b9985d131853b801a56704ba67b5.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <4AEBD789.6020009@gmail.com> <1f13df280910310945u663333fbkc03bb8b8fa7738ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Giles Orr wrote: > I'm in the same "camp" as you, ie. I think Debian is easiest to work Count me in as well. Debian has been my preferred distro since 1996 or so. The large amount of package integration reduces management overhead significantly. Most Linux distros and other versions of Unix have at least partly emulated the Debian approach in recent years. I've long argued that the integration of large numbers of packages is a boost to security as it makes it much easier to receive security updates. If packages are installed manually from many sources (the traditional approach) then security management requires manually watching all of the sources. All too often this isn't done and security suffers. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy http://www.practicalsysadmin.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 2 16:57:33 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:57:33 +0000 Subject: pic/midi programming In-Reply-To: <491f66a50910310706j71a57231nbb7de8734f89957b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <491f66a50910290958p34f59478n2e0495198567acd3@mail.gmail.com> <4AE9E954.6060502@the-wire.com> <20091030150704.GD29304@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AEB4394.7030408@the-wire.com> <491f66a50910301258s60e80651k199173a0fae44858@mail.gmail.com> <20091030223040.GH29304@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <491f66a50910310706j71a57231nbb7de8734f89957b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091102165732.GI29304@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 10:06:12AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: > Here's some information that may be of help. These files are from bagpipe > writer. They have the midi notes > > http://cityofoaks.home.netcom.com/tunes/AmazingGrace.bww Well if you are OK with A = 440Hz, then that list is fine. It is not the frequency used by highland pipes. It is what is used by some of the continental europe pipes though. Should be simple to scale up though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 2 17:16:42 2009 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 12:16:42 -0500 Subject: pic/midi programming In-Reply-To: <20091102165732.GI29304-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <491f66a50910290958p34f59478n2e0495198567acd3@mail.gmail.com> <4AE9E954.6060502@the-wire.com> <20091030150704.GD29304@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AEB4394.7030408@the-wire.com> <491f66a50910301258s60e80651k199173a0fae44858@mail.gmail.com> <20091030223040.GH29304@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <491f66a50910310706j71a57231nbb7de8734f89957b@mail.gmail.com> <20091102165732.GI29304@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AEF13FA.4090905@the-wire.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 10:06:12AM -0400, Dave Cramer wrote: >> Here's some information that may be of help. These files are from bagpipe >> writer. They have the midi notes >> >> http://cityofoaks.home.netcom.com/tunes/AmazingGrace.bww > > Well if you are OK with A = 440Hz, then that list is fine. It is not > the frequency used by highland pipes. It is what is used by some of > the continental europe pipes though. > > Should be simple to scale up though. CityOfOaks is a fantastic site. Love their sheet music, but that's not important right now. For tuning, see http://cityofoaks.home.netcom.com/Bagpipe_Tuning.html Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 2 21:18:00 2009 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:18:00 -0500 Subject: Terrible Internet performance today? Message-ID: <1257196680.1780.1343216103@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi all, I've noticed that Internet performance has been terrible everywhere I've been today, and seems to have been getting steadily worse since last night. My partner says she's noticing the same thing from her office in Mississauga. Is anyone else experiencing this? Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 2 21:58:37 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:58:37 -0500 Subject: Terrible Internet performance today? In-Reply-To: <1257196680.1780.1343216103-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1257196680.1780.1343216103@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4AEF560D.8000103@alteeve.com> Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > Hi all, > > I've noticed that Internet performance has been terrible everywhere I've been today, and seems to have been getting steadily worse since last night. My partner says she's noticing the same thing from her office in Mississauga. > > Is anyone else experiencing this? > > Amanda Oddly enough, yes. I've got my server sitting beside me and when I try to download something from it (via it's internet facing interface), I get about 1/10th the normal speed. However, when I look at the server I am seeing the NIC going full out. 'ntop' shows errors like: Mon 02 Nov 2009 04:56:59 PM EST **WARNING** packet truncated (65226->8232) Mon 02 Nov 2009 04:56:59 PM EST **WARNING** packet truncated (65226->8232) Mon 02 Nov 2009 04:56:59 PM EST **WARNING** packet truncated (65226->8232) Mon 02 Nov 2009 04:56:59 PM EST **WARNING** packet truncated (65226->8232) Mon 02 Nov 2009 04:56:59 PM EST **WARNING** packet truncated (65226->8232) Mon 02 Nov 2009 04:56:59 PM EST **WARNING** packet truncated (65226->8232) Mon 02 Nov 2009 04:56:59 PM EST **WARNING** packet truncated (65226->8232) Mon 02 Nov 2009 04:56:59 PM EST **WARNING** packet truncated (65226->8232) Printed repeatedly. Perhaps a router somewhere is puking onto the net or having packets for lunch? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 00:57:40 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:57:40 -0500 Subject: Terrible Internet performance today? In-Reply-To: <1257196680.1780.1343216103-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1257196680.1780.1343216103@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4AEF8004.20403@gmail.com> Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > Hi all, > > I've noticed that Internet performance has been terrible everywhere I've been today, and seems to have been getting steadily worse since last night. My partner says she's noticing the same thing from her office in Mississauga. > > Is anyone else experiencing this? my internet seems ok, but I was without internet fri night and all of sat, not sure if it was a bell sympatico issue or not? today I am getting my typical 59 to 67 KB/sec while downloading the new release of aptana studio 2.0 > > Amanda > -- -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 02:25:02 2009 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 18:25:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Logging all output from Apache? Message-ID: <481141.77676.qm@web110813.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi All, Is there a way to log all output from Apache web server? Sort of "paper trail" of what went out. --William __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 03:30:54 2009 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David Christopher Chipman) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:30:54 -0500 Subject: Logging all output from Apache? In-Reply-To: <481141.77676.qm-XyciXz+oX7j6X00i2u5GFvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <481141.77676.qm@web110813.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AEFA3EE.7050307@ican.net> William Park wrote: > Hi All, > > Is there a way to log all output from Apache web server? > Sort of "paper trail" of what went out. > > --William > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > Hi William, What, exactly, are you looking for? Did you look in the /var/log/httpd directory? Granted, on my CentOS system it's only accessible by root, but you should check it out to see if it contains the information you want. -David information you're looking for. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 05:42:26 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 00:42:26 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? Message-ID: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> I got my shiny new toy (Acer AspireOne). Right now, I have Knoppix running "dd" to back up Vista in case I ever need it. I hope I don't. Let's just say Vista's "performance" on the machine is "rather liesurely". After the backup finishes, Gentoo gets loaded. The problem with emulating Vista's cuteness is that you also end up emulating Vista's slowness. So forget about GNOME/KDE. My current intention is to go with either Blackbox or Fluxbox as the WM. Is anybody aware of a competitive alternative, and especially do you have experience with one? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 05:46:15 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:46:15 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <20091103054226.GA21238-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4AEFC3A7.9010309@linuxcaffe.ca> waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > The problem with emulating Vista's cuteness is that you also end up > emulating Vista's slowness. So forget about GNOME/KDE. My current > intention is to go with either Blackbox or Fluxbox as the WM. Is > anybody aware of a competitive alternative, and especially do you have > experience with one? Openbox is nicer, and not much heavier than blackbox, LXDE have done some nice things , enlightenment is a shine, light-weight triumph, I'm currently playing with awesomeWM, which is only slightly friendlier than ratpoison. djp > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 08:01:46 2009 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:01:46 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <20091103054226.GA21238-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4AEFE36A.1060803@teksavvy.com> waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > I got my shiny new toy (Acer AspireOne). Right now, I have Knoppix > running "dd" to back up Vista in case I ever need it. I hope I don't. > Let's just say Vista's "performance" on the machine is "rather > liesurely". After the backup finishes, Gentoo gets loaded. > > The problem with emulating Vista's cuteness is that you also end up > emulating Vista's slowness. So forget about GNOME/KDE. My current > intention is to go with either Blackbox or Fluxbox as the WM. Is > anybody aware of a competitive alternative, and especially do you have > experience with one? > I used Icewm for several years. It's light, configurable, and stable. http://www.icewm.org/ The default theme sucks (it's an ugly Windows 95 look), but there are lots of themes at http://www.box-look.org/. There are some configuration tools at Freshmeat, but I didn't use them. Editing the files by hand is easy. And you can use MenuMaker to create the menus. http://menumaker.sourceforge.net/ -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 15:33:02 2009 From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tug Williams) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:33:02 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <20091103054226.GA21238-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4b05ba690911030733j2605da35iee31bd2dd738779e@mail.gmail.com> I use Gentoo+IceWM on my 700Mhz 192Mb Inspiron laptop. A bit feature poorer than I'd like but sufficient. (I use NX client to a desktop machine for big apps, but it will play videos and firefox if absolutely required) However running gentoo on my Asus 701 I'm happy with gnome. more responsive than my XP box (not a great recommendation, I know) tug 2009/11/3 > I got my shiny new toy (Acer AspireOne). Right now, I have Knoppix > running "dd" to back up Vista in case I ever need it. I hope I don't. > Let's just say Vista's "performance" on the machine is "rather > liesurely". After the backup finishes, Gentoo gets loaded. > > The problem with emulating Vista's cuteness is that you also end up > emulating Vista's slowness. So forget about GNOME/KDE. My current > intention is to go with either Blackbox or Fluxbox as the WM. Is > anybody aware of a competitive alternative, and especially do you have > experience with one? > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 17:28:10 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 12:28:10 -0500 Subject: Linux-based Windows antivirus tools... Message-ID: <20091103172810.GA29840@yam.witteman.ca> One, and probably more of the Windows machines I am responsible for has become infected with at least one virus/trojan. Is there a boot cd I can burn from an clean Linux box that I can use to clean this/these machines? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 17:36:23 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 12:36:23 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <20091103054226.GA21238-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280911030936x6bff0d89o736427c03014a09d@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/3 : > ?I got my shiny new toy (Acer AspireOne). ?Right now, I have Knoppix > running "dd" to back up Vista in case I ever need it. ?I hope I don't. > Let's just say Vista's "performance" on the machine is "rather > liesurely". ?After the backup finishes, Gentoo gets loaded. > > ?The problem with emulating Vista's cuteness is that you also end up > emulating Vista's slowness. ?So forget about GNOME/KDE. ?My current > intention is to go with either Blackbox or Fluxbox as the WM. ?Is > anybody aware of a competitive alternative, and especially do you have > experience with one? I just got an AAO as well, although it's an older refurbed 9"/SSD/Linux model (Canada Computers for $200, nice deal). I Debianized it, then installed wmii (and Vimperator on Firefox) to maximize screen real estate ... arguably you can get even more screen real estate with a WM like ratpoison which doesn't include any title bars or status bars, but I prefer wmii. Both are extremely keyboard-driven, which isn't to everyone's taste. I would suggest nixing XFCE, Enlightenment and Awesome: all are quite large. Awesome could easily draw the award for most bloat in the least amount of time ... He's made it look prettier but the size and number of libraries has increased by a factor of 3 or 4. My site about window managers is probably more than you wanted to know, but some of the info might be useful: http://www.gilesorr.com/wm/ For more "traditional" (ie. not keyboard-driven) WMs, fluxbox gets my vote - I use it on several machines. Icewm is good too, and jwm is similar but I've seen some stability problems. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mattseburn-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 18:25:33 2009 From: mattseburn-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Seburn) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 13:25:33 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <4AEFC3A7.9010309-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> <4AEFC3A7.9010309@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <8e023ee60911031025y655cdc98n81faba2e27afd7c0@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 12:46 AM, David J Patrick wrote: > waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >> ?The problem with emulating Vista's cuteness is that you also end up >> emulating Vista's slowness. ?So forget about GNOME/KDE. ?My current >> intention is to go with either Blackbox or Fluxbox as the WM. ?Is >> anybody aware of a competitive alternative, and especially do you have >> experience with one? > > Openbox is nicer, and not much heavier than blackbox, LXDE have done some > nice things , enlightenment is a shine, light-weight triumph, I'm currently > playing with awesomeWM, which is only slightly friendlier than ratpoison. > djp >> I've been using Awesome for.. probably close to 2 years now, and I can't recommend it enough. Any questions, feel free to ask.. and the mailing list is really friendly and helpful too. Also, don't know if I've introduced myself here yet.. my name is Matt, I've been using Linux off and on for about 10 years now (since I was an undergrad at Waterloo), but was kind of intimidated by the install process until maybe 2 years ago now. Now that I've taken the plunge I can't go back. I use Debian testing + Awesome and work as a web developer here in Toronto. Matt > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 18:47:27 2009 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:47:27 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <8e023ee60911031025y655cdc98n81faba2e27afd7c0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> <4AEFC3A7.9010309@linuxcaffe.ca> <8e023ee60911031025y655cdc98n81faba2e27afd7c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF07ABF.1070808@ss.org> The linux Distro that shipped on the earlier Aspire Ones (I own one), ran an XFCE desktop. It's very smooth. On a side note, it also came with Compiz and I noticed no real difference in performance when I had it running. The footprint of the Windowmanager is less critical then the footprint of the whole Desktop environment. LXDE and XFCE would be just fine one the Aspire One. Especially if it has the extra ram the Windows versions come with. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 18:55:47 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:55:47 -0500 Subject: Linux-based Windows antivirus tools... In-Reply-To: <20091103172810.GA29840-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103172810.GA29840@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4AF07CB3.1080903@rogers.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > One, and probably more of the Windows machines I am responsible for has > become infected with at least one virus/trojan. > > Is there a boot cd I can burn from an clean Linux box that I can use to > clean this/these machines? > Any of these should do the trick. I don't know whether any of them are based on linux, but you certainly should be able to burn the ISOs using a linux box. http://www.techmixer.com/free-bootable-antivirus-rescue-cds-download-list/ HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 20:26:52 2009 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:26:52 -0500 Subject: Removing Accidentally Added words from your user Dictionary Message-ID: <4AF0920C.4040200@ss.org> I Think we've all done this by at some point: Your spell checking a document and instead of clicking change word, you click add word to dictionary. At this point your kicking yourself because there is no undo, and no documentation for removing those words (at least nothing immediately helpful from a google search). Well after doing it again, I went hunting for that pesky dictionary file. Reading man pages didn't help, they generally wouldn't tell me where the dictionaries are stored, or if that particular spell checker was the one being used. Google Searches were the same. Eventually I just started walking through the '.' directories in my home as that was where it should to be (somewhere...). I also knew from reading Fedora's Feature lists from release to release that there was more or less a universal choice for dictionaries in Fedora. The Answer: ~/.config/enchant/ Inside is a .dic text file for each local that has had words added to it (en_US.dic in my case). Here's to happier text editing! Extra Info: ~/.config is part of the FreeDesktop's XDG spec on where a users application configurations should be put. I've only Checked this in Fedora, Ubuntu and other Distro's might use other spellcheckers that store the data in different places. Although if people reading this could check and post their findings, it would be appreciated. -- Scott Sullivan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 21:14:25 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:14:25 -0500 Subject: Debian upgrade gone wrong - hostname: Name or service not known Message-ID: <20091103211425.GA10713@yam.witteman.ca> I have encountered one of the rare occasions where a Debian upgrade goes wrong: (Reading database ... 76966 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to replace netatalk 2.0.4-1 (using .../netatalk_2.0.4-2_i386.deb) ... hostname: Name or service not known invoke-rc.d: initscript netatalk, action "stop" failed. dpkg: warning: old pre-removal script returned error exit status 1 dpkg - trying script from the new package instead ... hostname: Name or service not known invoke-rc.d: initscript netatalk, action "stop" failed. dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/netatalk_2.0.4-2_i386.deb (--unpack): subprocess new pre-removal script returned error exit status 1 update-rc.d: warning: netatalk stop runlevel arguments (0 1 6) do not match LSB Default-Stop values (1) hostname: Name or service not known invoke-rc.d: initscript netatalk, action "start" failed. dpkg: error while cleaning up: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1 Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/netatalk_2.0.4-2_i386.deb E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) I am looking for solutions, but I could really use a hand if someone knows how to fix this. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 21:16:56 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:16:56 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <4AEFC3A7.9010309-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> <4AEFC3A7.9010309@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <1257283016.3187.548.camel@gont> On Tue, 2009-11-03 at 00:46 -0500, David J Patrick wrote: > waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > > The problem with emulating Vista's cuteness is that you also end up > > emulating Vista's slowness. So forget about GNOME/KDE. My current > > intention is to go with either Blackbox or Fluxbox as the WM. Is > > anybody aware of a competitive alternative, and especially do you have > > experience with one? > > Openbox is nicer, and not much heavier than blackbox, LXDE have done > some nice things , enlightenment is a shine, light-weight triumph, I'm > currently playing with awesomeWM, which is only slightly friendlier than > ratpoison. > djp just seconding openbox -- i run it with fbpanel, which works pretty well under ubuntu karmic; the fiddling i had to do was pretty minimal, and the config files are easy to understand (if i remember right, it was awesome which wanted me to learn lua to set key bindings, which seemed a bit much). openbox + emacs + goggles music manager + firefox runs fine on my x31, which i think is pretty comparable in terms of horsepower to your netbook. matt > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 21:22:05 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:22:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <20091103054226.GA21238-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Nov 2009, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > I got my shiny new toy (Acer AspireOne). Right now, I have Knoppix > running "dd" to back up Vista in case I ever need it. I hope I don't. You might like to check out 'ntfsclone' as an alternative to dd for this purpose. dd will helpfully capture all the empty space for you. > emulating Vista's slowness. So forget about GNOME/KDE. My current > intention is to go with either Blackbox or Fluxbox as the WM. Is > anybody aware of a competitive alternative, and especially do you have > experience with one? I use fvwm. I have always used fvwm. It is highly configurable and yet very light. I want a WM to stay out of my way so that I can get stuff done. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy http://www.practicalsysadmin.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 21:24:06 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:24:06 -0500 Subject: Debian upgrade gone wrong - hostname: Name or service not known In-Reply-To: <20091103211425.GA10713-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103211425.GA10713@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4AF09F76.6020004@alteeve.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have encountered one of the rare occasions where a Debian upgrade goes > wrong: > > (Reading database ... 76966 files and directories currently installed.) > Preparing to replace netatalk 2.0.4-1 (using > .../netatalk_2.0.4-2_i386.deb) ... > hostname: Name or service not known > invoke-rc.d: initscript netatalk, action "stop" failed. > dpkg: warning: old pre-removal script returned error exit status 1 > dpkg - trying script from the new package instead ... > hostname: Name or service not known > invoke-rc.d: initscript netatalk, action "stop" failed. > dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/netatalk_2.0.4-2_i386.deb > (--unpack): > subprocess new pre-removal script returned error exit status 1 > update-rc.d: warning: netatalk stop runlevel arguments (0 1 6) do not > match LSB Default-Stop values (1) > hostname: Name or service not known > invoke-rc.d: initscript netatalk, action "start" failed. > dpkg: error while cleaning up: > subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit > status 1 > Errors were encountered while processing: > /var/cache/apt/archives/netatalk_2.0.4-2_i386.deb > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) > > I am looking for solutions, but I could really use a hand if someone > knows how to fix this. Thanks. Check that '/etc/hostname' contains just the name of your system followed by a new line and nothing else. Then try running 'hostname ' and hit enter. Then try again. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 3 21:35:54 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:35:54 -0500 Subject: Debian upgrade gone wrong - hostname: Name or service not known In-Reply-To: <4AF09F76.6020004-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103211425.GA10713@yam.witteman.ca> <4AF09F76.6020004@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20091103213554.GA11858@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 04:24:06PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >>I have encountered one of the rare occasions where a Debian upgrade goes >>wrong: >> >>(Reading database ... 76966 files and directories currently installed.) >>Preparing to replace netatalk 2.0.4-1 (using >>.../netatalk_2.0.4-2_i386.deb) ... >>hostname: Name or service not known >>invoke-rc.d: initscript netatalk, action "stop" failed. >>dpkg: warning: old pre-removal script returned error exit status 1 >>dpkg - trying script from the new package instead ... >>hostname: Name or service not known >>invoke-rc.d: initscript netatalk, action "stop" failed. >>dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/netatalk_2.0.4-2_i386.deb >>(--unpack): >>subprocess new pre-removal script returned error exit status 1 >>update-rc.d: warning: netatalk stop runlevel arguments (0 1 6) do not >>match LSB Default-Stop values (1) >>hostname: Name or service not known >>invoke-rc.d: initscript netatalk, action "start" failed. >>dpkg: error while cleaning up: >>subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit >>status 1 >>Errors were encountered while processing: >>/var/cache/apt/archives/netatalk_2.0.4-2_i386.deb >>E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) >> >>I am looking for solutions, but I could really use a hand if someone >>knows how to fix this. Thanks. > >Check that '/etc/hostname' contains just the name of your system >followed by a new line and nothing else. Then try running 'hostname >' and hit enter. Then try again. There was a problem with the way that the /etc/init.d/netatalk was calling hostname, but doing as you suggest didn't fix it. However, I commented out everything in the script, and dpkg was then able to unwedge itself enough to get through the rest of the upgrade. I wasn't using netatalk, so I have removed it. Thanks a bunch. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 03:04:19 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:04:19 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <20091103054226.GA21238-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4AF0EF33.1070303@gmail.com> waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > I got my shiny new toy (Acer AspireOne). Right now, I have Knoppix > running "dd" to back up Vista in case I ever need it. I hope I don't. > Let's just say Vista's "performance" on the machine is "rather > liesurely". After the backup finishes, Gentoo gets loaded. > > The problem with emulating Vista's cuteness is that you also end up > emulating Vista's slowness. So forget about GNOME/KDE. My current > intention is to go with either Blackbox or Fluxbox as the WM. Is > anybody aware of a competitive alternative, and especially do you have > experience with one? > you could take a look at: http://www.xfce.org/ -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 06:06:50 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:06:50 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala Message-ID: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 10:49:32 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 05:49:32 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? In-Reply-To: References: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20091104104932.GB28449@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 04:22:05PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote > On Tue, 3 Nov 2009, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > I got my shiny new toy (Acer AspireOne). Right now, I have Knoppix > > running "dd" to back up Vista in case I ever need it. I hope I don't. > > You might like to check out 'ntfsclone' as an alternative to dd for this > purpose. dd will helpfully capture all the empty space for you. And bzip2 will helpfully compress the daylights out of it. Here are a couple of "ll" outputs. The first one is near the end of the bzip2 creation, and the second one is after. Note that the bzip2 archive goes down by a factor of 24, from just under 240 gigs to just under 10 gigs. I didn't bother compressing the hidden "restore partition". I figure it probably has been compressed already. [d531][root][~] ll /mnt/extg total 254076800 drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 200 Nov 3 16:59 . drwxr-xr-x 11 root root 4096 Nov 3 16:56 .. -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 10737418240 Nov 3 15:55 sda1_acer_hidden_partition -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 239319646208 Nov 3 2009 sda2_acer_vista -rw------- 1 root root 9863745536 Nov 3 21:08 sda2_acer_vista.bz2 [d531][root][~] ll /mnt/extg total 20138015 drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 168 Nov 3 21:54 . drwxr-xr-x 11 root root 4096 Nov 3 16:56 .. -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 10737418240 Nov 3 15:55 sda1_acer_hidden_partition -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9863786156 Nov 3 22:32 sda2_acer_vista.bz2 -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 15:42:53 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 15:42:53 +0000 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <4AF119FA.8060706-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 01:06:50AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ Yet more evidence against fixed release dates. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 15:55:53 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:55:53 -0500 Subject: Samba oddness Message-ID: <20091104155553.GA12522@yam.witteman.ca> I recently upgraded samba from 2:3.3.4-1 to 2:3.4.2-1, and afterwards none of my windows users were able to connect - they received password errors. I needed to recreate the passwords for all of my users before I was able to get them back on the file server. This was (of course) a PITA, but hopefully if another TLUGger has a problem, they will read this before they tear out their hair. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 16:02:29 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 11:02:29 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <20091104154253.GA15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 01:06:50AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ > > Yet more evidence against fixed release dates. Oddly enough, I still think it's a beautiful release and heads above 9.04. I guess the lesson here is; For best results, backup and re-install. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 16:16:30 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:16:30 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <4AF1A595.6070401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 01:06:50AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>> >>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ >> >> Yet more evidence against fixed release dates. > > Oddly enough, I still think it's a beautiful release and heads above 9.04. I > guess the lesson here is; For best results, backup and re-install. :) > This is going to sound like a troll, but I am honestly trying to understand. I've tried Ubuntu, and it was nice. But in the end I looked at Debian and thought 'it's as good or better, and I'll never have to reinstall again, or at least until I get new hardware'. At that point it was an easy choice. Surely the Ubuntu install is no easier than Debian, especially for experienced users like yourself. I don't remember anything from Ubuntu that I can't get on Debian. So, what is the advantage to using Ubuntu? -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 16:27:22 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:27:22 +0000 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20091104162722.GB15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 11:16:30AM -0500, Thomas Milne wrote: > This is going to sound like a troll, but I am honestly trying to > understand. I've tried Ubuntu, and it was nice. But in the end I > looked at Debian and thought 'it's as good or better, and I'll never > have to reinstall again, or at least until I get new hardware'. At > that point it was an easy choice. > > Surely the Ubuntu install is no easier than Debian, especially for > experienced users like yourself. I don't remember anything from Ubuntu > that I can't get on Debian. > > So, what is the advantage to using Ubuntu? I certainly haven't seen an advantage to it yet. The upgrade/install issues are just something I couldn't imagine wanting to deal with. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 16:30:20 2009 From: lists-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw at public.gmane.org (Matt London) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 11:30:20 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 01:06:50AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ >>> Yet more evidence against fixed release dates. >> Oddly enough, I still think it's a beautiful release and heads above 9.04. I >> guess the lesson here is; For best results, backup and re-install. :) >> > > This is going to sound like a troll, but I am honestly trying to > understand. I've tried Ubuntu, and it was nice. But in the end I > looked at Debian and thought 'it's as good or better, and I'll never > have to reinstall again, or at least until I get new hardware'. At > that point it was an easy choice. > > Surely the Ubuntu install is no easier than Debian, especially for > experienced users like yourself. I don't remember anything from Ubuntu > that I can't get on Debian. > > So, what is the advantage to using Ubuntu? > Firstly - I'm new to the list, so "Hi" :) I've used both, for desktop, laptop and server usage. The main reason I hear for Ubuntu over Debian is age of packages - Ubuntu tend to push through newer releases a lot more quickly than Debian. Theoretically this means that debian/stable should be a more stable distro, but a lot of the time on the desktop you end up running testing or unstable, just because you want a version of some piece of software that's a little more up to date. So in theory at least, Ubuntu should give you a distro with less change of breakage than debian/unstable, whilst giving you more up-to-date packages than debian/stable. In practice, this usually tends to be the case, but every now and again, things break. Also, the Ubuntu folk seem to be a little less zealous over non-GPL software. Personally, I don't prefer one over the other - it's all a matter of horses for courses. -- Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 17:13:33 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:13:33 -0500 Subject: 9.10 In-Reply-To: <4AF1AC1C.4000709-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: <4AF1B63D.8060208@tmis.ca> Ubuntu 9.04 to 9.10 upgrade yesterday. Linux u2 2.6.31-14-generic #48-Ubuntu SMP Fri Oct 16 14:04:26 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/ Used it for 10 hours now without any problem. nothing fancy, no compiz. hopefully it continues! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 17:15:26 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 12:15:26 -0500 Subject: 9.10 In-Reply-To: <4AF1B63D.8060208-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> <4AF1B63D.8060208@tmis.ca> Message-ID: I did the upgrade a month ago to the beta and haven't had any problems with it yet. On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 12:13 PM, teddy mills wrote: > Ubuntu 9.04 to 9.10 upgrade yesterday. > > Linux u2 2.6.31-14-generic #48-Ubuntu SMP > Fri Oct 16 14:04:26 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/ > > Used it for 10 hours now without any problem. > nothing fancy, no compiz. hopefully it continues! > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 17:15:48 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 12:15:48 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <4AF1AC1C.4000709-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Matt London wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>>> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 01:06:50AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ >>>> Yet more evidence against fixed release dates. >>> Oddly enough, I still think it's a beautiful release and heads above 9.04. I >>> guess the lesson here is; For best results, backup and re-install. :) >>> >> >> This is going to sound like a troll, but I am honestly trying to >> understand. I've tried Ubuntu, and it was nice. But in the end I >> looked at Debian and thought 'it's as good or better, and I'll never >> have to reinstall again, or at least until I get new hardware'. At >> that point it was an easy choice. >> >> Surely the Ubuntu install is no easier than Debian, especially for >> experienced users like yourself. I don't remember anything from Ubuntu >> that I can't get on Debian. >> >> So, what is the advantage to using Ubuntu? >> > > Firstly - I'm new to the list, so "Hi" :) Welcome to Fantasy Island ;) > I've used both, for desktop, laptop and server usage. The main reason I > hear for Ubuntu over Debian is age of packages - Ubuntu tend to push > through newer releases a lot more quickly than Debian. Theoretically > this means that debian/stable should be a more stable distro, but a lot > of the time on the desktop you end up running testing or unstable, just > because you want a version of some piece of software that's a little > more up to date. I am running Debian Testing, with Unstable sources and apt pinning. I am running Gnome 2.28, which is the same as Karmic Koala. So yes, Testing/Unstable appears to be about equivalent to current Ubuntu. Trouble with Ubuntu is, though, in the end if I want to keep up with the latest software, I have to wipe and reinstall every six months. I can't imagine anyone looking forward to that with any great sense of longing ;) > So in theory at least, Ubuntu should give you a distro with less change > of breakage than debian/unstable, whilst giving you more up-to-date > packages than debian/stable. In practice, this usually tends to be the > case, but every now and again, things break. Running a mixed Testing and Unstable system, I've never experienced one single serious breakage. I think the most serious bug I've experience was that the screensaver stopped working, and I had to power off my display manually for a couple of weeks til it was resolved. If I wasn't so damned lazy I probably could have sped that process up by checking bug reports. > Also, the Ubuntu folk seem to be a little less zealous over non-GPL > software. > > Personally, I don't prefer one over the other - it's all a matter of > horses for courses. That's what I'm trying to figure out, I don't see the course that would give Ubuntu the edge. I could possibly see very new users being drawn to Ubuntu because of some of the minor enhancements to easing the software installation process and so on, but for an experienced user I just don't see it. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 17:27:50 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 12:27:50 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > I am running Debian Testing, with Unstable sources and apt pinning. I > am running Gnome 2.28, which is the same as Karmic Koala. So yes, > Testing/Unstable appears to be about equivalent to current Ubuntu. > Trouble with Ubuntu is, though, in the end if I want to keep up with > the latest software, I have to wipe and reinstall every six months. I > can't imagine anyone looking forward to that with any great sense of > longing ;) The upgrade process is really simple now, only took a hour. > That's what I'm trying to figure out, I don't see the course that > would give Ubuntu the edge. I could possibly see very new users being > drawn to Ubuntu because of some of the minor enhancements to easing > the software installation process and so on, but for an experienced > user I just don't see it. Ubuntu has become a supported Operating System in the proprietary development community. The companies have setup guides that are simple (aptitude install *). I have worked on Debian (where I had to have a mixture of unstable, testing, and stable) and CentOS (compile from source) systems doing the same thing but it was killing my development time. I am a programmer not a system administrator and that is why an experienced user would use Ubuntu. -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 17:31:38 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:31:38 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: <4AF1BA7A.4040800@utoronto.ca> Thomas Milne wrote: >> So in theory at least, Ubuntu should give you a distro with less change >> of breakage than debian/unstable, whilst giving you more up-to-date >> packages than debian/stable. In practice, this usually tends to be the >> case, but every now and again, things break. > > Running a mixed Testing and Unstable system, I've never experienced > one single serious breakage. I think the most serious bug I've > experience was that the screensaver stopped working, and I had to > power off my display manually for a couple of weeks til it was > resolved. If I wasn't so damned lazy I probably could have sped that > process up by checking bug reports. A squeeze update managed to get by me and installed dmraid along with mdadm. That resulted in an unbootable system until I booted from a backup and removed the dmraid package. The bug report about it was very unhelpful with folk pointing the finger at someone else. So for now I have a single pinned package from unstable (mdadm) on my squeeze system. >> Also, the Ubuntu folk seem to be a little less zealous over non-GPL >> software. >> >> Personally, I don't prefer one over the other - it's all a matter of >> horses for courses. > > That's what I'm trying to figure out, I don't see the course that > would give Ubuntu the edge. I could possibly see very new users being > drawn to Ubuntu because of some of the minor enhancements to easing > the software installation process and so on, but for an experienced > user I just don't see it. Wifi is the main thing that is a pain to work out sometimes. Than and Nvidia/ATI blobs. I don't see the advantage in terms of the latter since both video card drivers are fairly easy to install from the manufacturers, or apt-get. Wifi is a pain for a lot of cards but it is much improved across distros in recent years. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 17:41:49 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:41:49 +0000 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <4AF1AC1C.4000709-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: <20091104174149.GC15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 11:30:20AM -0500, Matt London wrote: > Firstly - I'm new to the list, so "Hi" :) > > I've used both, for desktop, laptop and server usage. The main reason I > hear for Ubuntu over Debian is age of packages - Ubuntu tend to push > through newer releases a lot more quickly than Debian. Theoretically > this means that debian/stable should be a more stable distro, but a lot > of the time on the desktop you end up running testing or unstable, just > because you want a version of some piece of software that's a little > more up to date. > > So in theory at least, Ubuntu should give you a distro with less change > of breakage than debian/unstable, whilst giving you more up-to-date > packages than debian/stable. In practice, this usually tends to be the > case, but every now and again, things break. Actually it seems that on average you are MORE likely to get breakage on a unbuntu upgrade than you are with running debian testing or even unstable. > Also, the Ubuntu folk seem to be a little less zealous over non-GPL > software. Debian is not all about GPL. They are rather interested in free software though, and they believe in making sure they don't break the rules. They do have a perfectly usable non-free section for all the other stuff. > Personally, I don't prefer one over the other - it's all a matter of > horses for courses. For me it is about having a system that works. That means I run debian unstable, not ubuntu. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 17:43:10 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:43:10 -0400 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <4AF1AC1C.4000709-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Matt London wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>>> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 01:06:50AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ >>>> Yet more evidence against fixed release dates. >>> Oddly enough, I still think it's a beautiful release and heads above 9.04. I >>> guess the lesson here is; For best results, backup and re-install. :) >>> >> >> This is going to sound like a troll, but I am honestly trying to >> understand. I've tried Ubuntu, and it was nice. But in the end I >> looked at Debian and thought 'it's as good or better, and I'll never >> have to reinstall again, or at least until I get new hardware'. At >> that point it was an easy choice. >> >> Surely the Ubuntu install is no easier than Debian, especially for >> experienced users like yourself. I don't remember anything from Ubuntu >> that I can't get on Debian. >> >> So, what is the advantage to using Ubuntu? >> > > Firstly - I'm new to the list, so "Hi" :) > > I've used both, for desktop, laptop and server usage. The main reason I > hear for Ubuntu over Debian is age of packages - Ubuntu tend to push > through newer releases a lot more quickly than Debian. Theoretically > this means that debian/stable should be a more stable distro, but a lot > of the time on the desktop you end up running testing or unstable, just > because you want a version of some piece of software that's a little > more up to date. > > So in theory at least, Ubuntu should give you a distro with less change > of breakage than debian/unstable, whilst giving you more up-to-date > packages than debian/stable. In practice, this usually tends to be the > case, but every now and again, things break. > > Also, the Ubuntu folk seem to be a little less zealous over non-GPL > software. > > Personally, I don't prefer one over the other - it's all a matter of > horses for courses. My suspicion is that what you *actually* get with Ubuntu is something a lot more like "debian/unstable" than like "debian/stable," so that if you think debian/unstable breaks too much (which I tend *not* to find to be the case, at least not during this millennium), then it's pretty likely that Ubuntu will be fragile in similar ways. I don't get the feeling that Ubuntu does 3 years worth of QA work for each release, so it seems unlikely that Ubuntu would be nearly as stable as debian/stable... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Charles de Gaulle - "The better I get to know men, the more I find myself loving dogs." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/charles_de_gaulle.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 16:43:30 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 11:43:30 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4AF1AF32.8050707@alteeve.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 01:06:50AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ >>> Yet more evidence against fixed release dates. >> Oddly enough, I still think it's a beautiful release and heads above 9.04. I >> guess the lesson here is; For best results, backup and re-install. :) >> > > This is going to sound like a troll, but I am honestly trying to > understand. I've tried Ubuntu, and it was nice. But in the end I > looked at Debian and thought 'it's as good or better, and I'll never > have to reinstall again, or at least until I get new hardware'. At > that point it was an easy choice. > > Surely the Ubuntu install is no easier than Debian, especially for > experienced users like yourself. I don't remember anything from Ubuntu > that I can't get on Debian. > > So, what is the advantage to using Ubuntu? > Nope, I don't take that as a troll at all. It's a fair question. :) For me, I love Debian, and have even grown to have a grudging like of CentOS. However, these are more server oriented. To that point, I run Debian on my server and CentOS on my work servers. The reason I use Ubuntu on my workstation and laptop is how little hassle it is to have all the modern features there and working. For example, out of the box; * my sound words from multiple sources where on Debian it only worked from one source at a time. * Firefox 3.5 is default. * Video codecs are there or automatically detected and downloaded as needed. * Wireless worked out of the box and has a nice interface for switching between networks. * A much larger repo of apps. However, it's a trade off. Ubuntu does crash now and then exactly because it's much more bleeding edge. I wouldn't trust secure data to Ubuntu for the same reason. I expect to reinstall my workstation with each new release, where I know my server will keep on trucking for as long as I want it to. To me, the difference can be summed up as; Ubuntu is a workstation OS and Debian is a server OS. Both fill those roles very well and trying to compare them is an apples to oranges affair. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 18:39:04 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:39:04 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <4AF1AF32.8050707-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AF32.8050707@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4AF1CA48.8080904@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > To me, the difference can be summed up as; Ubuntu is a workstation OS > and Debian is a server OS. Both fill those roles very well and trying to > compare them is an apples to oranges affair. I much prefer Debian as well, but, Ubuntu 8.04 on a server is very reasonable and I haven't noticed any issues with it on the admittedly limited number of servers I've setup/used with it. Ubuntu really is quite capable in a server role if you use one of the LTS releases. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 18:39:32 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:39:32 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <4AF1AF32.8050707-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AF32.8050707@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880911041039o52cbdf0dsd5fc4f241149800c@mail.gmail.com> I like the ease of use of Ubuntu, it usually just does work (THE LTS version anway) I think its great for desktop and easier to configure then debian. Debian I use for server things as well, it all depends on my computers use (I usually use xen/vmware images). I use CENTOS on things where I Don't want to upgrade servers every year. Centos usually stays around for a long time before they stop supporting it. On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> >>> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 01:06:50AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ >>>> >>>> Yet more evidence against fixed release dates. >>> >>> Oddly enough, I still think it's a beautiful release and heads above >>> 9.04. I >>> guess the lesson here is; For best results, backup and re-install. :) >>> >> >> This is going to sound like a troll, but I am honestly trying to >> understand. I've tried Ubuntu, and it was nice. But in the end I >> looked at Debian and thought 'it's as good or better, and I'll never >> have to reinstall again, or at least until I get new hardware'. At >> that point it was an easy choice. >> >> Surely the Ubuntu install is no easier than Debian, especially for >> experienced users like yourself. I don't remember anything from Ubuntu >> that I can't get on Debian. >> >> So, what is the advantage to using Ubuntu? >> > > Nope, I don't take that as a troll at all. It's a fair question. :) > > For me, I love Debian, and have even grown to have a grudging like of > CentOS. However, these are more server oriented. To that point, I run Debian > on my server and CentOS on my work servers. > > The reason I use Ubuntu on my workstation and laptop is how little hassle it > is to have all the modern features there and working. For example, out of > the box; > > * my sound words from multiple sources where on Debian it only worked from > one source at a time. > * Firefox 3.5 is default. > * Video codecs are there or automatically detected and downloaded as needed. > * Wireless worked out of the box and has a nice interface for switching > between networks. > * A much larger repo of apps. > > ?However, it's a trade off. Ubuntu does crash now and then exactly because > it's much more bleeding edge. I wouldn't trust secure data to Ubuntu for the > same reason. I expect to reinstall my workstation with each new release, > where I know my server will keep on trucking for as long as I want it to. > > ?To me, the difference can be summed up as; Ubuntu is a workstation OS and > Debian is a server OS. Both fill those roles very well and trying to compare > them is an apples to oranges affair. > > Madi > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 19:57:58 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:57:58 -0500 Subject: Debian upgrade gone wrong - hostname: Name or service not known In-Reply-To: <4AF09F76.6020004-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103211425.GA10713@yam.witteman.ca> <4AF09F76.6020004@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20091104195758.GA26501@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 04:24:06PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >>I have encountered one of the rare occasions where a Debian upgrade goes >>wrong: >Check that '/etc/hostname' contains just the name of your system >followed by a new line and nothing else. Then try running 'hostname >' and hit enter. Then try again. Interestingly, though I got around this problem by stomping on netatalk, it is still broken and causing problems with amavis. Symptom: # hostname returns the subdomain (this machine is a subdomain - this is as expected) # hostname --fqdn [-f] returns hostname: Name or service not known /etc/hosts looks fine, as does /etc/hostname This stopped working because of a dist-upgrade, no changes to any configurations. How does "hostname" work? Why could it be barfing? Thanks again. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 20:07:58 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 15:07:58 -0500 Subject: Debian upgrade gone wrong - hostname: Name or service not known In-Reply-To: <20091104195758.GA26501-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103211425.GA10713@yam.witteman.ca> <4AF09F76.6020004@alteeve.com> <20091104195758.GA26501@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20091104200758.GA27311@yam.witteman.ca> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 02:57:58PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 04:24:06PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >>William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >>>I have encountered one of the rare occasions where a Debian upgrade goes >>>wrong: > >>Check that '/etc/hostname' contains just the name of your system >>followed by a new line and nothing else. Then try running 'hostname >>' and hit enter. Then try again. > >Interestingly, though I got around this problem by stomping on netatalk, >it is still broken and causing problems with amavis. > >Symptom: > ># hostname > returns the subdomain (this machine is a subdomain - this is as expected) > ># hostname --fqdn [-f] > returns hostname: Name or service not known > >/etc/hosts looks fine, as does /etc/hostname > >This stopped working because of a dist-upgrade, no changes to any >configurations. > >How does "hostname" work? Why could it be barfing? Thanks again. Amusing sidebar - Python is not having any trouble figuring out my hostname: >>> import socket >>> socket.gethostname() 'theta.utoronto.ca' >>> socket.getfqdn() 'theta.utoronto.ca.utoronto.ca' As a side question, why is the 2nd level and top level domain repeated? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 22:11:25 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:11:25 -0500 Subject: Samba oddness In-Reply-To: <20091104155553.GA12522-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20091104155553.GA12522@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <7fc604580911041411o314321f4peaaca52833a09464@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/4 William O'Higgins Witteman > I recently upgraded samba from 2:3.3.4-1 to 2:3.4.2-1, and afterwards > none of my windows users were able to connect - they received password > errors. > > I needed to recreate the passwords for all of my users before I was able > to get them back on the file server. This was (of course) a PITA, but > hopefully if another TLUGger has a problem, they will read this before > they tear out their hair. > Thanks for the warning. I assume you mean just the Samba password (ie, set using `smbpasswd`), right? I've looked on launchpad and don't see this reported as a bug. Is this expected upgrade behaviour? - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 23:09:24 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:09:24 -0500 Subject: Samba oddness In-Reply-To: <7fc604580911041411o314321f4peaaca52833a09464-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091104155553.GA12522@yam.witteman.ca> <7fc604580911041411o314321f4peaaca52833a09464@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091104230924.GA5180@yam.witteman.ca> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 05:11:25PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> I recently upgraded samba from 2:3.3.4-1 to 2:3.4.2-1, and afterwards >> none of my windows users were able to connect - they received password >> errors. >> >> I needed to recreate the passwords for all of my users before I was able >> to get them back on the file server. This was (of course) a PITA, but >> hopefully if another TLUGger has a problem, they will read this before >> they tear out their hair. > >Thanks for the warning. > >I assume you mean just the Samba password (ie, set using `smbpasswd`), >right? Correct - I had to freshen each user's password (which I had conveniently set for them, and recorded) >I've looked on launchpad and don't see this reported as a bug. Is this >expected upgrade behaviour? Goodness, I hope not. I did see a reference to this in the past, so I'll keep an eye on things. I read that this can revert and you have to refresh the passwords again. I'll keep you posted. After samba issues and a round of ignorant users spreading virii around my network, I wish I could move everyone off windows - I could set things up very nicely with sshfs and Linux or Mac computers that I could not only keep clean of viruses, but could also effectively administer remotely. Someday... -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 23:39:51 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 23:39:51 +0000 Subject: Debian upgrade gone wrong - hostname: Name or service not known In-Reply-To: <20091104195758.GA26501-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103211425.GA10713@yam.witteman.ca> <4AF09F76.6020004@alteeve.com> <20091104195758.GA26501@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20091104233951.GD15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 02:57:58PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > Interestingly, though I got around this problem by stomping on netatalk, > it is still broken and causing problems with amavis. > > Symptom: > > # hostname > returns the subdomain (this machine is a subdomain - this is as expected) > > # hostname --fqdn [-f] > returns hostname: Name or service not known > > /etc/hosts looks fine, as does /etc/hostname > > This stopped working because of a dist-upgrade, no changes to any > configurations. > > How does "hostname" work? Why could it be barfing? Thanks again. Perhaps your /etc/hosts is not valid. Something like this is proper: 127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost 127.0.0.2 rceng02.eng.lan rceng02 Or: 127.0.0.1 rceng02.eng.lan rceng02 localhost.localdomain localhost This is not: 127.0.0.1 mybox The first entry after the IP _must_ include the domainname, at least if it happens to be the hostname of the box. Things that are not the hostname don't require this. So essentially whatever your hostname is, there must be an entry in /etc/hosts with an IP, the hostname with domain, and the hostname by itself, in that order. Since 127.0.0.1 should always be there, and never changes, it is a handy place to put the official hostname. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 4 23:40:29 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 23:40:29 +0000 Subject: Debian upgrade gone wrong - hostname: Name or service not known In-Reply-To: <20091104200758.GA27311-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103211425.GA10713@yam.witteman.ca> <4AF09F76.6020004@alteeve.com> <20091104195758.GA26501@yam.witteman.ca> <20091104200758.GA27311@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20091104234029.GE15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 03:07:58PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 02:57:58PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > >On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 04:24:06PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > >>William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > >>>I have encountered one of the rare occasions where a Debian upgrade goes > >>>wrong: > > > >>Check that '/etc/hostname' contains just the name of your system > >>followed by a new line and nothing else. Then try running 'hostname > >>' and hit enter. Then try again. > > > >Interestingly, though I got around this problem by stomping on netatalk, > >it is still broken and causing problems with amavis. > > > >Symptom: > > > ># hostname > > returns the subdomain (this machine is a subdomain - this is as expected) > > > ># hostname --fqdn [-f] > > returns hostname: Name or service not known > > > >/etc/hosts looks fine, as does /etc/hostname > > > >This stopped working because of a dist-upgrade, no changes to any > >configurations. > > > >How does "hostname" work? Why could it be barfing? Thanks again. > > Amusing sidebar - Python is not having any trouble figuring out my > hostname: > > >>> import socket > >>> socket.gethostname() > 'theta.utoronto.ca' > >>> socket.getfqdn() > 'theta.utoronto.ca.utoronto.ca' > > As a side question, why is the 2nd level and top level domain repeated? Because in fact your configuration is broken. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 5 03:39:50 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:39:50 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4AF24906.9000509@gmail.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 01:06:50AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ >>> Yet more evidence against fixed release dates. >> Oddly enough, I still think it's a beautiful release and heads above 9.04. I >> guess the lesson here is; For best results, backup and re-install. :) >> > > This is going to sound like a troll, but I am honestly trying to > understand. I've tried Ubuntu, and it was nice. But in the end I > looked at Debian and thought 'it's as good or better, and I'll never > have to reinstall again, or at least until I get new hardware'. At > that point it was an easy choice. > > Surely the Ubuntu install is no easier than Debian, especially for > experienced users like yourself. I don't remember anything from Ubuntu > that I can't get on Debian. > > So, what is the advantage to using Ubuntu? Well as you may or may not know Ubuntu is based off Debian. Ubuntu is suppose to be more bleeding edge than Debian, this is why more people prefer it over Debian. Specially for desktop eye candy, but Ubuntu also has a solid server edition too. If you can install Debian you can install Ubuntu, don't need to be an expert like Madi =) I have both installed. Ubuntu on my main PC (as a dual boot) and Debain running in VMWare on my WinXP laptop and at work also on VMWare. The philosophy of Ubuntu package universe is more liberal and open. Debian seems to be more of a guardian to strict Open Source values. This is what I have come to understand. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 5 03:46:47 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:46:47 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: <4AF24AA7.5060008@gmail.com> Myles Braithwaite wrote: > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Thomas Milne I am a programmer not a system administrator and that is why an > experienced user would use Ubuntu. I second the motion! I've had Ubuntu x84_64 running on my AMD64 dual core for months and I've never experienced a crash or any issues with package upgrades. I don't keep my desktop running 24x7, I do power down, but Ubuntu 9.04 is stable for me. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 5 07:54:41 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 23:54:41 -0800 Subject: Samba oddness In-Reply-To: <20091104230924.GA5180-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20091104155553.GA12522@yam.witteman.ca> <7fc604580911041411o314321f4peaaca52833a09464@mail.gmail.com> <20091104230924.GA5180@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <128C66B4-95FC-4D81-AB49-A22778E92E04@gmail.com> Just out of curiousity, have you considered plugging the users in LDAP and then setting up samba to use that. We have an smbldap setup at work and while it can be a PITA to setup initially it does open up a lot of doors for other integration and gets past some of the annoying issues with samba password files. On that note, anyone found a useful replacement for Domain+policies that works with Vista/7? Eventually that is going to be a big roadblock if a stable+featureful major-version upgrade doesn't come up for samba semi-soon... (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 4-Nov-09, at 3:09 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 05:11:25PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> >>> I recently upgraded samba from 2:3.3.4-1 to 2:3.4.2-1, and >>> afterwards >>> none of my windows users were able to connect - they received >>> password >>> errors. >>> >>> I needed to recreate the passwords for all of my users before I >>> was able >>> to get them back on the file server. This was (of course) a PITA, >>> but >>> hopefully if another TLUGger has a problem, they will read this >>> before >>> they tear out their hair. >> >> Thanks for the warning. >> >> I assume you mean just the Samba password (ie, set using >> `smbpasswd`), >> right? > > Correct - I had to freshen each user's password (which I had > conveniently set for them, and recorded) > >> I've looked on launchpad and don't see this reported as a bug. Is >> this >> expected upgrade behaviour? > > Goodness, I hope not. I did see a reference to this in the past, so > I'll keep an eye on things. I read that this can revert and you > have to > refresh the passwords again. I'll keep you posted. > > After samba issues and a round of ignorant users spreading virii > around > my network, I wish I could move everyone off windows - I could set > things up very nicely with sshfs and Linux or Mac computers that I > could > not only keep clean of viruses, but could also effectively administer > remotely. Someday... > -- > > yours, > > William > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 5 08:01:29 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 00:01:29 -0800 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <4AF24906.9000509-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF24906.9000509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <91FCA222-9F0B-4152-A120-B3FDC59CC1B4@gmail.com> What really gets annoying is that even though ubuntu is supposedly debian-derived, some fairly significant fixes don't seem to make it up for some reason, even ones fixed quite awhile ago in Deb For me, Ubuntu has some stuff that works better because it's a newer version, but also some that is worse due to the bad bugfix porting or the rush forward for eyecandy vs stability. (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 4-Nov-09, at 7:39 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Madison Kelly >> wrote: >>> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>>> On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 01:06:50AM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ >>>> Yet more evidence against fixed release dates. >>> Oddly enough, I still think it's a beautiful release and heads >>> above 9.04. I >>> guess the lesson here is; For best results, backup and re- >>> install. :) >>> >> This is going to sound like a troll, but I am honestly trying to >> understand. I've tried Ubuntu, and it was nice. But in the end I >> looked at Debian and thought 'it's as good or better, and I'll never >> have to reinstall again, or at least until I get new hardware'. At >> that point it was an easy choice. >> Surely the Ubuntu install is no easier than Debian, especially for >> experienced users like yourself. I don't remember anything from >> Ubuntu >> that I can't get on Debian. >> So, what is the advantage to using Ubuntu? > > Well as you may or may not know Ubuntu is based off Debian. Ubuntu > is suppose to be more bleeding edge than Debian, this is why more > people prefer it over Debian. Specially for desktop eye candy, but > Ubuntu also has a solid server edition too. > > If you can install Debian you can install Ubuntu, don't need to be > an expert like Madi =) > > I have both installed. Ubuntu on my main PC (as a dual boot) and > Debain running in VMWare on my WinXP laptop and at work also on > VMWare. > > The philosophy of Ubuntu package universe is more liberal and open. > Debian seems to be more of a guardian to strict Open Source values. > This is what I have come to understand. > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > http://DevMentor.org > > Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform > their lives. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 5 11:30:40 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 06:30:40 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <4AF119FA.8060706-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF2B760.5070605@rogers.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ > I upgraded and the process was uneventful. No problems, whatsoever. I have different partitions for my home drive, and different drives for mass storage. I use the NVidia drivers. I use the basic desktop setup, with Apache, MySQL, PHP, Media Tomb, FTP and a few other server things installed. Perhaps I was lucky. But people who had problems are more likely to be heard, so I wanted to speak up and offer a balance. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 5 15:12:12 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 07:12:12 -0800 Subject: 9.10 In-Reply-To: References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> <4AF1B63D.8060208@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0911050712m631979e6o8b41b1ade514c9b8@mail.gmail.com> Can you guys spec your machines? What hardware are you using? Sometimes the biggest issues I have with upgrades is hardware that stops working (although generally it's kernel-related), especially if it's something using non-included drives like WL (broadcomm wifi), ndiswrapper, or the ATI/Nvidia stubs... Anyone using any of these and done a successful upgrade? On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > I did the upgrade a month ago to the beta and haven't had any problems > with it yet. > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 12:13 PM, teddy mills wrote: >> Ubuntu 9.04 to 9.10 upgrade yesterday. >> >> Linux u2 2.6.31-14-generic #48-Ubuntu SMP >> Fri Oct 16 14:04:26 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/ >> >> Used it for 10 hours now without any problem. >> nothing fancy, no compiz. hopefully it continues! >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Myles Braithwaite > me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 5 15:24:26 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 07:24:26 -0800 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <4AF1CA48.8080904-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AF32.8050707@alteeve.com> <4AF1CA48.8080904@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0911050724w3a16cb11u7319df7fd6f4988b@mail.gmail.com> Ditto to that. For my home server I was a long-term debian user but there were a few packages that Ubuntu had that debian didn't, and a few things that behaved "oddly" on Debian that I wanted to see about on Ubuntu. Thus far using LTS on the server has had nothing but good results. I think you're more likely to run into issues on a desktop because you'll be dealing with X, graphics drivers, and drivers for wifi/sound/etc, as well as possibly laptop/ACPI issues. I actually did have a few humps to cross with the initial sound config so I could have the server play audio to my stereo, but nothing major. On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> >> To me, the difference can be summed up as; Ubuntu is a workstation OS and >> Debian is a server OS. Both fill those roles very well and trying to compare >> them is an apples to oranges affair. > > I much prefer Debian as well, but, Ubuntu 8.04 on a server is very > reasonable and I haven't noticed any issues with it on the admittedly > limited number of servers I've setup/used with it. Ubuntu really is quite > capable in a server role if you use one of the LTS releases. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 5 15:35:22 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:35:22 -0500 Subject: 9.10 In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0911050712m631979e6o8b41b1ade514c9b8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> <4AF1B63D.8060208@tmis.ca> <3a97ef0911050712m631979e6o8b41b1ade514c9b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: My laptop is an IBM ThinkPad X31, with a docking station and everything works (except I lost the enter key so if anyone has an extra one please contact me), my workstation is a Dell Vostro 220s and everything works. Here is the specs of my Laptop: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X31 On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Can you guys spec your machines? What hardware are you using? > > Sometimes the biggest issues I have with upgrades is hardware that > stops working (although generally it's kernel-related), especially if > it's something using non-included drives like WL (broadcomm wifi), > ndiswrapper, or the ATI/Nvidia stubs... > > Anyone using any of these and done a successful upgrade? > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Myles Braithwaite > wrote: >> I did the upgrade a month ago to the beta and haven't had any problems >> with it yet. >> >> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 12:13 PM, teddy mills wrote: >>> Ubuntu 9.04 to 9.10 upgrade yesterday. >>> >>> Linux u2 2.6.31-14-generic #48-Ubuntu SMP >>> Fri Oct 16 14:04:26 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/ >>> >>> Used it for 10 hours now without any problem. >>> nothing fancy, no compiz. hopefully it continues! >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Myles Braithwaite >> me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org >> http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (778) 890-0942 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 5 18:48:31 2009 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:48:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: NFS alternatives? Message-ID: <20027.72868.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi folks, I have a situation at work that is ideally solved by use of NFS (need for a single logical file system underpinning a variety of servers and application server clusters). Since I'm looking for an infrastructure solution, NFS seems like the perfect fit. However, as I understand it, over the years there have been various concerns about security and vulnerabilities associated with NFS. Are there any alternatives to NFS out there that provide the same type of service, but, without the security concerns? I'm working with our network and system admin folks but want to make sure I do some of my own digging around as well, to be more educated in my chats with them ;) Cheers, -M -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 5 18:52:13 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 13:52:13 -0500 Subject: NFS alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20027.72868.qm-1NIlFuzKg1GB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20027.72868.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AF31EDD.3020705@alteeve.com> Matthew Godycki wrote: > Hi folks, > > I have a situation at work that is ideally solved by use of NFS (need for > a single logical file system underpinning a variety of servers and application > server clusters). Since I'm looking for an infrastructure solution, NFS seems > like the perfect fit. > > However, as I understand it, over the years there have been various > concerns about security and vulnerabilities associated with NFS. > > Are there any alternatives to NFS out there that provide the same type of > service, but, without the security concerns? I'm working with our network > and system admin folks but want to make sure I do some of my own > digging around as well, to be more educated in my chats with them ;) > > Cheers, > -M If you're looking to create a single disk store as opposed to a shared file space, you might want to take a look at using an iSCSI target with LVM handing out slices to servers and workstations as needed. If you do need shared space, then you might be stuck with NFS or SMB. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 5 19:01:38 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:01:38 -0500 Subject: NFS alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20027.72868.qm-1NIlFuzKg1GB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20027.72868.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Matthew Godycki wrote: > Hi folks, > > I have a situation at work that is ideally solved by use of NFS (need for > a single logical file system underpinning a variety of servers and application > server clusters). ?Since I'm looking for an infrastructure solution, NFS seems > like the perfect fit. > > However, as I understand it, over the years there have been various > concerns about security and vulnerabilities associated with NFS. > > Are there any alternatives to NFS out there that provide the same type of > service, but, without the security concerns? ?I'm working with our network > and system admin folks but want to make sure I do some of my own > digging around as well, to be more educated in my chats with them ;) In principle, options ought to include: - OpenAFS - 9P (from Plan 9) - Coda - Intermezzo Some of those are pretty heavy on administrative overhead; none are as easy as: On server echo "/path/to/export 192.168.0.22(rw,async)" >> /etc/exports SIGHUP nfs server process On client echo "server:/path/to/export /path/to/mount nfs" >> /etc/fstab -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Joan Crawford - "I, Joan Crawford, I believe in the dollar. Everything I earn, I spend." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/joan_crawford.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 5 19:15:26 2009 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:15:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: NFS alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20027.72868.qm-1NIlFuzKg1GB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20027.72868.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Nov 2009, Matthew Godycki wrote: > Hi folks, > > I have a situation at work that is ideally solved by use of NFS (need for > a single logical file system underpinning a variety of servers and application > server clusters). Since I'm looking for an infrastructure solution, NFS seems > like the perfect fit. > > However, as I understand it, over the years there have been various > concerns about security and vulnerabilities associated with NFS. > > Are there any alternatives to NFS out there that provide the same type of > service, but, without the security concerns? I'm working with our network > and system admin folks but want to make sure I do some of my own > digging around as well, to be more educated in my chats with them ;) I use sshfs. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 5 19:26:38 2009 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:26:38 -0500 Subject: NFS alternatives? In-Reply-To: <20027.72868.qm-1NIlFuzKg1GB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20027.72868.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2274b9c30911051126w589a07f9n3852c7987ebf9536@mail.gmail.com> There havent been any nfs related vulnerabilities in quite some time. The security concerns may be related to uid conflicts between servers, but if you use nis/ldap and configure your exports appropriately nfs is perfectly secure...unless you are worried about unencrypted traffic over the wire. On 11/5/09, Matthew Godycki wrote: > Hi folks, > > I have a situation at work that is ideally solved by use of NFS (need for > a single logical file system underpinning a variety of servers and > application > server clusters). Since I'm looking for an infrastructure solution, NFS > seems > like the perfect fit. > > However, as I understand it, over the years there have been various > concerns about security and vulnerabilities associated with NFS. > > Are there any alternatives to NFS out there that provide the same type of > service, but, without the security concerns? I'm working with our network > and system admin folks but want to make sure I do some of my own > digging around as well, to be more educated in my chats with them ;) > > Cheers, > -M > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 02:29:59 2009 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 21:29:59 -0500 Subject: NFS alternatives? In-Reply-To: <2274b9c30911051126w589a07f9n3852c7987ebf9536-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20027.72868.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <2274b9c30911051126w589a07f9n3852c7987ebf9536@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <768631270911051829m5f736ef3w1dcfded28e7d807@mail.gmail.com> NIS has huge security issues. Kerberos/LDAP should be the choice for authn/authz. On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Kyle O'Donnell wrote: > There havent been any nfs related vulnerabilities in quite some time. > The security concerns may be related to uid conflicts between servers, > but if you use nis/ldap and configure your exports appropriately nfs > is perfectly secure...unless you are worried about unencrypted traffic > over the wire. > > On 11/5/09, Matthew Godycki wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > > I have a situation at work that is ideally solved by use of NFS (need for > > a single logical file system underpinning a variety of servers and > > application > > server clusters). Since I'm looking for an infrastructure solution, NFS > > seems > > like the perfect fit. > > > > However, as I understand it, over the years there have been various > > concerns about security and vulnerabilities associated with NFS. > > > > Are there any alternatives to NFS out there that provide the same type of > > service, but, without the security concerns? I'm working with our > network > > and system admin folks but want to make sure I do some of my own > > digging around as well, to be more educated in my chats with them ;) > > > > Cheers, > > -M > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 02:44:23 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 21:44:23 -0500 Subject: Acer Aspire One questions Message-ID: <1f13df280911051844j4fa0aec7wec21944b5ba5ae6a@mail.gmail.com> I bought an Acer Aspire One recently and installed Debian testing on it. I have several questions: - the command "cat /proc/cpuinfo" shows not one, but two Intel Atom chips. Does anybody know why? - the command "acpi -t" returns no information at all, where would I start on getting that working? - audio volume is staggeringly low, even with the volume control cranked to the max - I see mention of this happening to some people, apparently across different hardware types, but no solution (I know the volume was considerably higher under Linpus Linux) -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 02:57:23 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:57:23 -0500 Subject: Acer Aspire One questions In-Reply-To: <1f13df280911051844j4fa0aec7wec21944b5ba5ae6a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280911051844j4fa0aec7wec21944b5ba5ae6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF39093.40304@alteeve.com> Giles Orr wrote: > I bought an Acer Aspire One recently and installed Debian testing on > it. I have several questions: > > - the command "cat /proc/cpuinfo" shows not one, but two Intel Atom > chips. Does anybody know why? There is a dual-core model: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_atom#Atom_300_series Probably that's what you've got. > - the command "acpi -t" returns no information at all, where would I > start on getting that working? Not sure, but I know on my Debian server I get nothing from ACPI, too. I've not looked into it, but would be curious to hear what you find out. > - audio volume is staggeringly low, even with the volume control > cranked to the max - I see mention of this happening to some people, > apparently across different hardware types, but no solution (I know > the volume was considerably higher under Linpus Linux) From the command line, with root priv., try running alsamixer. Not sure if this is your problem, but I've run into trouble when one of the volumes not shown in Gnome was set low. Turning it up fixed the problem. HTH, Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 03:48:22 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:48:22 -0500 Subject: Acer Aspire One questions In-Reply-To: <1f13df280911051844j4fa0aec7wec21944b5ba5ae6a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280911051844j4fa0aec7wec21944b5ba5ae6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF39C86.9010305@rogers.com> Giles Orr wrote: > - audio volume is staggeringly low, even with the volume control > cranked to the max - I see mention of this happening to some people, > apparently across different hardware types, but no solution (I know > the volume was considerably higher under Linpus Linux) Here's a tip from the Mepis forums on boosting sound output by adding a pre-amp slider to mixers. http://www.mepislovers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23499 HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 05:52:44 2009 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 00:52:44 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? In-Reply-To: References: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 3 Nov 2009, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I got my shiny new toy (Acer AspireOne). Right now, I have Knoppix >> running "dd" to back up Vista in case I ever need it. I hope I don't. >> > > You might like to check out 'ntfsclone' as an alternative to dd for this > purpose. dd will helpfully capture all the empty space for you. > > > Clonezilla which was featured in October's Issue of Linux Pro Magazine is what I would recommend as a liveCD for Cloning Drives. It uses ntfsclone when it can and dd if necessary. http://clonezilla.org/ The liveCD is debian based. I used it recently to image a bunch of XP machines and it worked really well. We also used it to clone a very very old SUSE box that was used as a print server for a Risograph. Current version of ghost was completely messing up the partition table but clonezilla worked fine. -- Mark Lane -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 06:45:51 2009 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 01:45:51 -0500 Subject: Acer Aspire One questions In-Reply-To: <1f13df280911051844j4fa0aec7wec21944b5ba5ae6a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280911051844j4fa0aec7wec21944b5ba5ae6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF3C61F.2010202@ss.org> There is a well maintained wiki page for the Aspire One the Fedora Wiki. It has a lot of tips for optimally configuring it and fixes to a couple "Gotchas" https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Acer_Aspire_One On 11/05/2009 09:44 PM, Giles Orr wrote: > I bought an Acer Aspire One recently and installed Debian testing on > it. I have several questions: > > - the command "cat /proc/cpuinfo" shows not one, but two Intel Atom > chips. Does anybody know why? > - the command "acpi -t" returns no information at all, where would I > start on getting that working? > - audio volume is staggeringly low, even with the volume control > cranked to the max - I see mention of this happening to some people, > apparently across different hardware types, but no solution (I know > the volume was considerably higher under Linpus Linux) > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 14:17:52 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 09:17:52 -0500 Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <20091104104932.GB28449-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> <20091104104932.GB28449@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4AF43010.5070101@utoronto.ca> waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 04:22:05PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote >> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >>> I got my shiny new toy (Acer AspireOne). Right now, I have Knoppix >>> running "dd" to back up Vista in case I ever need it. I hope I don't. >> You might like to check out 'ntfsclone' as an alternative to dd for this >> purpose. dd will helpfully capture all the empty space for you. > > And bzip2 will helpfully compress the daylights out of it. Here are a > couple of "ll" outputs. The first one is near the end of the bzip2 > creation, and the second one is after. Note that the bzip2 archive goes > down by a factor of 24, from just under 240 gigs to just under 10 gigs. > I didn't bother compressing the hidden "restore partition". I figure it > probably has been compressed already. How long did that take for bzip to chew through 240gb? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 14:47:31 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 14:47:31 +0000 Subject: Acer Aspire One questions In-Reply-To: <1f13df280911051844j4fa0aec7wec21944b5ba5ae6a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280911051844j4fa0aec7wec21944b5ba5ae6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091106144731.GF15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 09:44:23PM -0500, Giles Orr wrote: > I bought an Acer Aspire One recently and installed Debian testing on > it. I have several questions: > > - the command "cat /proc/cpuinfo" shows not one, but two Intel Atom > chips. Does anybody know why? Atoms have hyperthreading. > - the command "acpi -t" returns no information at all, where would I > start on getting that working? > - audio volume is staggeringly low, even with the volume control > cranked to the max - I see mention of this happening to some people, > apparently across different hardware types, but no solution (I know > the volume was considerably higher under Linpus Linux) This is not unusual on laptops. Sometimes the mixer is weird. My wife's desktop needs the 'front' turned up in addition to 'PCM' and 'master' to get the volume right. I had never seen that before. So run alsamixer and play around a bit. Just don't expect anything you can hear more than normal user distance away on many laptops. Some laptops can barely be heard by the user. A few can fill a room (like the compaq R3240 which had some amazing JBL speakers in it). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 17:39:51 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 12:39:51 -0500 Subject: Acer Aspire One questions In-Reply-To: <1f13df280911051844j4fa0aec7wec21944b5ba5ae6a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280911051844j4fa0aec7wec21944b5ba5ae6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280911060939g1f313537y5755caa824be2e8@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/5 Giles Orr : > I bought an Acer Aspire One recently and installed Debian testing on > it. ?I have several questions: Thanks to everyone who replied. > - the command "cat /proc/cpuinfo" shows not one, but two Intel Atom > chips. ?Does anybody know why? Madi, I only wish I'd got a dual core by accident! I guess Lennart's right about the hyperthreading, something I wasn't aware of. > - the command "acpi -t" returns no information at all, where would I > start on getting that working? I'll keep looking for this, I'm having trouble on it on another machine (quad core desktop) as well. > - audio volume is staggeringly low, even with the volume control > cranked to the max - I see mention of this happening to some people, > apparently across different hardware types, but no solution (I know > the volume was considerably higher under Linpus Linux) Digging into the pre-amping helped, thanks. But it's still very quiet, still a lot quieter than in Linpus, and I can already hear distortion. But the documents recommended are helping, I'll dig around some more. Another question that's perhaps less machine-specific: how do I enable tap-to-click on a Synaptics touchpad? When I search google I mostly get results about "how do I turn it off?" and I wasn't able to invert that process to my advantage. Thanks again. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 19:19:53 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 11:19:53 -0800 Subject: OT: Telus "3G" network? Message-ID: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6@mail.gmail.com> I notice that Telus is currently advertising that they have "Canada's largest 3G+ network". http://www.telusmobility.com/en/ON/network/about.shtml It then goes on to talk about their HSPA+ network and "3GPP" SIM cards. There are wikipedia articles on 3G and HSPA here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_Packet_Access http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G I had thought that 3G was tied to GSM networks (telus being CDMA or AFAIK moving towards upgrades through WCDMA). Can somebody relieve me of confusion on this? How do 3G, GDM, (w)CDMA, and SIM cards etc all relate to each other? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 19:25:52 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 19:25:52 +0000 Subject: OT: Telus "3G" network? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091106192552.GG15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 11:19:53AM -0800, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I notice that Telus is currently advertising that they have "Canada's > largest 3G+ network". > > http://www.telusmobility.com/en/ON/network/about.shtml > > It then goes on to talk about their HSPA+ network and "3GPP" SIM cards. > > There are wikipedia articles on 3G and HSPA here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_Packet_Access > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G > > > I had thought that 3G was tied to GSM networks (telus being CDMA or > AFAIK moving towards upgrades through WCDMA). Can somebody relieve me > of confusion on this? How do 3G, GDM, (w)CDMA, and SIM cards etc all > relate to each other? Apparently Telus and Bell are going to HSPA+ and will in fact support GSM phones that support that. This of course means rogers will no longer be to only carier that can deal with roaming users from the rest of the world. I believe all 3 intend to roll out LTE (or whatever 4G is called). Perhaps someone finally realizes that being tied to a single supplier (Qualcomm) with a bad attitude isn't good for business long term, and that being able to have your users roam anywhere in the world is profitable. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 21:02:30 2009 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:02:30 -0500 Subject: OT: Telus "3G" network? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <491f66a50911061302n57997280hd3b34e0d44e41880@mail.gmail.com> They've change to GSM Dave On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:19 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I notice that Telus is currently advertising that they have "Canada's > largest 3G+ network". > > http://www.telusmobility.com/en/ON/network/about.shtml > > It then goes on to talk about their HSPA+ network and "3GPP" SIM cards. > > There are wikipedia articles on 3G and HSPA here: > ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_Packet_Access > ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G > > > I had thought that 3G was tied to GSM networks (telus being CDMA or > AFAIK moving towards upgrades through WCDMA). Can somebody relieve me > of confusion on this? How do 3G, GDM, (w)CDMA, and SIM cards etc all > relate to each other? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 21:16:43 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:16:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: | From: Thomas Milne | Running a mixed Testing and Unstable system, I've never experienced | one single serious breakage. With Ubuntu, you are directed to run the latest version, with updates, or the latest LTS version, with updates. That seems pretty simple. Whenever people recommend Debian, the recipe seems more complicated. Simple version: - Run stable is you want stability (and movement at the rate of tectonic drift). - Run testing even though it may be unsafe. Really, it is supposed to be almost safe. - Run unstable if you "like to live on the edge" The actual recommendation from people I trust is "run some mixture of these". How is one to know what mixture to run? It seems like it would be a lot of work to figure this out correctly. Oh, and another confusion: at any one time, stable and testing each have a name (of a character from Toy Story). When a new stable release is released, the name of the old "testing" becomes the name of the new stable. But unstable is always called Sid. So new name is invented for testing. At least I think that is how it works. I don't run Debian mostly because I don't know what mixture to run and I don't have to decide this with the distros I do use (CentOS, Fedora, and Ubuntu). Continuous (as opposed to discontinuous) updating is attractive. Lennart seems to say that works with Debian, even when a new version becomes stable or testing. But Lennart seems to be capable of easily solving problems that others find daunting. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 21:52:00 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:52:00 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 4:16 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Thomas Milne > > | Running a mixed Testing and Unstable system, I've never experienced > | one single serious breakage. > > With Ubuntu, you are directed to run the latest version, with updates, > or the latest LTS version, with updates. ?That seems pretty simple. > > Whenever people recommend Debian, the recipe seems more complicated. > > Simple version: > > - Run stable is you want stability (and movement at the rate of tectonic > ?drift). > > - Run testing even though it may be unsafe. ?Really, it is supposed to > ?be almost safe. > > - Run unstable if you "like to live on the edge" > > The actual recommendation from people I trust is ?"run some mixture of these". > > How is one to know what mixture to run? ?It seems like it would be a > lot of work to figure this out correctly. > > Oh, and another confusion: at any one time, stable and testing each > have a name (of a character from Toy Story). ?When a new stable > release is released, the name of the old "testing" becomes the name of > the new stable. ?But unstable is always called Sid. ?So new name is > invented for testing. ?At least I think that is how it works. > > I don't run Debian mostly because I don't know what mixture to run and > I don't have to decide this with the distros I do use (CentOS, Fedora, > and Ubuntu). > > Continuous (as opposed to discontinuous) updating is attractive. > Lennart seems to say that works with Debian, even when a new version > becomes stable or testing. ?But Lennart seems to be capable of easily > solving problems that others find daunting. I can assure you, I am nowhere near the level of experience that Lennart has, and I have not found anything about Debian nearly as confusing as you make it out to be. I had to ask about the version name thing once, but Lennart must be gifted at explaining things too, because I got it :-) I think it comes down to what I've been hearing from most of the responses to this thread: there's really no specific show-stopping reason people choose Ubuntu, it seems to come down to a more general preference for the way it is packaged, and to some slightly more polished tools for configuration, particularly for newer wireless hardware and such. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 22:05:07 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 17:05:07 -0500 Subject: OT: Telus "3G" network? In-Reply-To: <20091106192552.GG15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6@mail.gmail.com> <20091106192552.GG15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Sorensen, > of the world. ?I believe all 3 intend to roll out LTE (or whatever 4G > is called). ?Perhaps someone finally realizes that being tied to a > single supplier (Qualcomm) with a bad attitude isn't good for business > long term, and that being able to have your users roam anywhere in the > world is profitable. Well said. Basically, choosing CDMA was a very bonehead move on their side. It was doomed from the word go because of patent. Well, that would have been ok if there was no patent free alternative, but in this case, GSM did have that property. This meant everybody except North Americans went GSM and it took the lion share of the market. Handset manufactures therefore tended to release all the nice phones for GSM, and CDMA phones were mostly an after thought. And as if market share disadvantage was not enough, Qualcomm was not helping to say the least. They actually initially wanted to wait until LTE comes out around 2011. However, they realized waiting that long would have essentially sealed their fate, considering all the nice smart phones are GSM based. By 2011, majority of the people in developed country should be carrying around a smart phone. So, essentially, they have spent around half a billion on GSM, and in 2011 roll out again a LTE network. They might not break even on this investment, but at least, it kind of assist in retaining their current user base. Do not feel bad at the death of CDMA, and its kind a good lesson to the pro patent mindsets Regards, > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 6 23:24:44 2009 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 18:24:44 -0500 Subject: OT: Telus "3G" network? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6@mail.gmail.com> <20091106192552.GG15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <491f66a50911061524w3faaa2b9k2645e01e8ced176a@mail.gmail.com> Now does anyone know a bell store where they have a clue. I have an android g1 I'd like to get hooked up. Dave On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 5:05 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Sorensen, > >> of the world. ?I believe all 3 intend to roll out LTE (or whatever 4G >> is called). ?Perhaps someone finally realizes that being tied to a >> single supplier (Qualcomm) with a bad attitude isn't good for business >> long term, and that being able to have your users roam anywhere in the >> world is profitable. > > Well said. Basically, choosing CDMA was a very bonehead move on their > side. It was doomed from the word go because of patent. Well, that > would have been ok if there was no patent free alternative, but in > this case, GSM did have that property. This meant everybody except > North Americans went GSM and it took the lion share of the market. > Handset manufactures therefore tended to release all the nice phones > for GSM, and CDMA phones were mostly an after thought. ?And as if > market share disadvantage was not enough, ?Qualcomm was not helping to > say the least. > > They actually initially wanted to wait until LTE comes out around > 2011. However, they realized waiting that long would have essentially > sealed their fate, considering all the nice smart phones are GSM > based. By 2011, majority of the people in developed country should be > carrying around a smart phone. > > So, essentially, they have spent around half a billion on GSM, and in > 2011 roll out again a LTE network. They might not break even on this > investment, but at least, it kind of assist in retaining their current > user base. Do not feel bad at the death of CDMA, and its kind a good > lesson to the pro patent mindsets > > Regards, > > >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 7 02:35:38 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 21:35:38 -0500 Subject: OT: Telus "3G" network? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091107023538.GB3693@watson-wilon.ca> They're also advertising new Nokia phones. I'm so hoping that includes the N900. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 7 04:41:36 2009 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 23:41:36 -0500 Subject: OT: Telus "3G" network? In-Reply-To: <20091107023538.GB3693-8agRmHhQ+n0LFV1hc+Bozg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6@mail.gmail.com> <20091107023538.GB3693@watson-wilon.ca> Message-ID: <491f66a50911062041m2dfb67cbjc7a6f9a1f1bbdd05@mail.gmail.com> Actually they haven't changed to GSM they are rolling out HSPA I dont think my G1 works on their network :( --dc-- On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > They're also advertising new Nokia phones. ?I'm so hoping that includes > the N900. > > -- > Neil Watson > Linux/UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 1 13:33:18 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 08:33:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: hoping to clarify standard video resolutions Message-ID: i'm currently considering getting a new laptop with better screen res that the one i have now (1280x800), and i'm going slightly bonkers trying to keep up with everyone's slightly shifting definitions of video standards, so let me be a bit verbose. let's start here -- http://compreviews.about.com/od/video/a/NoteVidSpec.htm -- where we allegedly see a list of official screen resolutions: * WVGA: 800x480 * SVGA: 800x600 * WSVGA: 1024x600 * XGA: 1024x768 * WXGA: 1280x800 or 1366x768 * SXGA: 1280x1024 * SXGA+: 1400x1050 * WXGA+: 1440x900 * WSXGA+: 1680x1050 * UXGA: 1600x1200 * WUXGA: 1920x1200 or 1920x1080 first, note the two possibilities for WXGA -- lately, i've seen 1366x768 labelled as "HD WXGA", which would make sense, i can live with that. what is a bit puzzling is where that resolution came from. i've seen the explanation that that's the largest native resolution that is still 16:9 and could fit into 1Meg of pixels -- in short, a totally arbitrary set of values that is simply pushed to the limit. it sounds good, except that 1366*768 = 1049088, which is *larger* than 1Meg, which is 1048576. so that explanation doesn't really make sense, unless that slight overage doesn't hurt anything. and here's where i'm going with this. how does all this match up with *video* standards? because, these days, it makes sense when selecting a laptop to try to get one that's compatible with HDTV standards, no? as i read it, HDTV is defined as having a 16:9 aspect ratio, the two standard resolutions being 1280x720 (720p), and 1920x1080 (1080i, given that 1080p is still way too high-end for consumer stuff, yes?) however, you can certainly purchase 1366x768 HD TVs that advertise being 720p. i assume that means the incoming signal is upscaled to fit in 1366x768. and to tie this back to laptops, if i'm willing to spend more to get better resolution, where are laptop resolutions going these days? making any effort to converge on HD TV standards? i was at future shop a while back and asked the salesweasel about models with full WUXGA (1920x1200) res, and he told me that they rarely see those anymore, as all laptop manufacturers are moving over to 1920x1080, allegedly to match HD 1080i. it's even more annoying now that i'm seeing various laptops with screen resolutions of 1440x900 (yes, that's 1.6:1, HD aspect ratio) being marketed as being "900p". to the best of my knowledge, there is no such video standard as 900p. (i suspect that, in short order, i'll run across 1680x1050 being marketed as "1050p", another non-existent 1.6:1 standard.) bottom line - i'm interested in what video capabilities and display resolution i should look for in a new laptop that would be most compatible with current and upcoming video standards. pointers to relevant web pages would be just fine, thanks. rday p.s. i'm still interested in where 1366x768 came from. is it really based on that 1M pixel count, so that a single frame would fit in 1M of video memory, even though it doesn't quite match? -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 7 14:44:02 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 09:44:02 -0500 Subject: hoping to clarify standard video resolutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1f13df280911070644u655b0d9ey720f68995188c2f1@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/1 Robert P. J. Day : > > ?i'm currently considering getting a new laptop with better screen > res that the one i have now (1280x800), and i'm going slightly bonkers > trying to keep up with everyone's slightly shifting definitions of > video standards, so let me be a bit verbose. > > ?let's start here -- > http://compreviews.about.com/od/video/a/NoteVidSpec.htm -- where we > allegedly see a list of official screen resolutions: > > ? ?* WVGA: 800x480 > ? ?* SVGA: 800x600 > ? ?* WSVGA: 1024x600 > ? ?* XGA: 1024x768 > ? ?* WXGA: 1280x800 or 1366x768 > ? ?* SXGA: 1280x1024 > ? ?* SXGA+: 1400x1050 > ? ?* WXGA+: 1440x900 > ? ?* WSXGA+: 1680x1050 > ? ?* UXGA: 1600x1200 > ? ?* WUXGA: 1920x1200 or 1920x1080 > > first, note the two possibilities for WXGA -- lately, i've seen > 1366x768 labelled as "HD WXGA", which would make sense, i can live > with that. > > ?what is a bit puzzling is where that resolution came from. ?i've > seen the explanation that that's the largest native resolution that is > still 16:9 and could fit into 1Meg of pixels -- in short, a totally > arbitrary set of values that is simply pushed to the limit. ?it sounds > good, except that 1366*768 = 1049088, which is *larger* than 1Meg, > which is 1048576. ?so that explanation doesn't really make sense, > unless that slight overage doesn't hurt anything. > > ?and here's where i'm going with this. ?how does all this match up > with *video* standards? ? because, these days, it makes sense when > selecting a laptop to try to get one that's compatible with HDTV > standards, no? > > ?as i read it, HDTV is defined as having a 16:9 aspect ratio, the two > standard resolutions being 1280x720 (720p), and 1920x1080 (1080i, > given that 1080p is still way too high-end for consumer stuff, yes?) > however, you can certainly purchase 1366x768 HD TVs that advertise > being 720p. ?i assume that means the incoming signal is upscaled to > fit in 1366x768. > > ?and to tie this back to laptops, if i'm willing to spend more to > get better resolution, where are laptop resolutions going these days? > making any effort to converge on HD TV standards? ?i was at future > shop a while back and asked the salesweasel about models with full > WUXGA (1920x1200) res, and he told me that they rarely see those > anymore, as all laptop manufacturers are moving over to 1920x1080, > allegedly to match HD 1080i. > > ?it's even more annoying now that i'm seeing various laptops with > screen resolutions of 1440x900 (yes, that's 1.6:1, HD aspect ratio) > being marketed as being "900p". ?to the best of my knowledge, there is > no such video standard as 900p. ?(i suspect that, in short order, i'll > run across 1680x1050 being marketed as "1050p", another non-existent > 1.6:1 standard.) > > ?bottom line - i'm interested in what video capabilities and display > resolution i should look for in a new laptop that would be most > compatible with current and upcoming video standards. ?pointers to > relevant web pages would be just fine, thanks. > > rday > > p.s. ?i'm still interested in where 1366x768 came from. ?is it really > based on that 1M pixel count, so that a single frame would fit in 1M > of video memory, even though it doesn't quite match? > > -- >From Wikipedia: "High-definition video may be stored on Blu-ray ROM discs with up to 1920?1080 pixel resolution at up to 60 frames per second interlaced or 24 frames per second progressive ..." Note the "up to" part: that would seem to be the top end. If you want a target to aim for, that would be it. I believe this is also the target resolution for up-converted DVDs. Personally, I find screens with a 16:9 resolution a bit too wide and short for computer work, so I'd try for something 1920 wide but taller than 1080. I'm afraid I also think that using the term "standards" in reference to the jungle you laid out is a little over-hopeful - "standards" implies consistency, and you make it pretty clear it's gone out the window. Just look at the pixel resolution, and get what suits you. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 7 17:59:16 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 12:59:16 -0500 Subject: OT: Laptop HD Message-ID: <4AF5B574.1060602@gmail.com> Hi, I got a Compaq Ppresario R4225CA laptop that I want to put in a larger hard drive. Does anyone know where I may be able to purchase one locally? I pulled out the drive, and it's a Segate 100 GB AT Disk Drive, if I could buy something online I would buy it, but I don't know the dimension of this tiny thing. Are all AT laptop drive the same size? I am looking for a 500 GB HD Thanks! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 7 19:35:46 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 14:35:46 -0500 Subject: OT: Laptop HD In-Reply-To: <4AF5B574.1060602-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF5B574.1060602@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/7/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Hi, > > I got a Compaq Ppresario R4225CA laptop that I want to put in a larger hard > drive. Does anyone know where I may be able to purchase one locally? I would start with the "usual suspects", the cluster of PC stores near College and Spadina. Barring that I see that tigerdirect.ca has laptop hard drives, they also have a handful of retail stores in the GTA, though none downtown... > I pulled out the drive, and it's a Segate 100 GB AT Disk Drive, if I could > buy > something online I would buy it, but I don't know the dimension of this tiny > thing. > > Are all AT laptop drive the same size? The vast majority of laptops (outside the netbook area) use 2.5" drives, and without looking up specs on your laptop that is the way I would bet... > I am looking for a 500 GB HD There may be an issue here. I have seen some BIOSes that have an upper limit as to the size of HD they can support. Check up on your laptop to see: - What is the upper limit of the size of HD it can currently support? - If the above number is too low, see if there is a BIOS upgrade for your laptop... Other than that, keep in mind that you will pay a real premium for a laptop HD, but otherwise ... have fun. Colin. > Thanks! > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > http://DevMentor.org > > Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 7 19:47:29 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:47:29 -0500 Subject: OT: Laptop HD In-Reply-To: References: <4AF5B574.1060602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF5CED1.2050009@gmail.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > On 11/7/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: (edited for brevity) > >> I am looking for a 500 GB HD > > There may be an issue here. I have seen some BIOSes that have an upper > limit as to the size of HD they can support. Check up on your laptop > to see: > > - What is the upper limit of the size of HD it can currently support? > - If the above number is too low, see if there is a BIOS upgrade for > your laptop... > > Other than that, keep in mind that you will pay a real premium for a > laptop HD, but otherwise ... have fun. I didn't think of the upper limit and checking what my bios can handle. If the laptop can handle an external 1TB drive connect to USB port, I am guessing it can handle 500 GB internally? Is there a case this might not be true? > > Colin. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 7 20:28:39 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 15:28:39 -0500 Subject: OT: Laptop HD In-Reply-To: <4AF5CED1.2050009-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF5B574.1060602@gmail.com> <4AF5CED1.2050009@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/7/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> On 11/7/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > (edited for brevity) > >>> I am looking for a 500 GB HD >> >> There may be an issue here. I have seen some BIOSes that have an upper >> limit as to the size of HD they can support. Check up on your laptop >> to see: >> >> - What is the upper limit of the size of HD it can currently support? >> - If the above number is too low, see if there is a BIOS upgrade for >> your laptop... >> >> Other than that, keep in mind that you will pay a real premium for a >> laptop HD, but otherwise ... have fun. > > I didn't think of the upper limit and checking what my bios can handle. If > the > laptop can handle an external 1TB drive connect to USB port, I am guessing > it > can handle 500 GB internally? Is there a case this might not be true? The max. size of an internal drive is a question of the OS + BIOS. The external dive is just an OS question. So, yes there are situations where you can have a working external drive that will not work as an internal drive... You will need to do a little bit of research re: your laptop... Colin. >> Colin. > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > http://DevMentor.org > > Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 7 22:54:25 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:54:25 -0500 Subject: hoping to clarify standard video resolutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AF5FAA1.4020601@rogers.com> Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > bottom line - i'm interested in what video capabilities and display > resolution i should look for in a new laptop that would be most > compatible with current and upcoming video standards. pointers to > relevant web pages would be just fine, thanks. > > > I'd be tempted to go with 1920 x 1080, as that matches all the home video stuff. BTW, you may want to check your computer date. It appears you sent your email last Sunday. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 7 23:26:16 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 18:26:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: hoping to clarify standard video resolutions In-Reply-To: <4AF5FAA1.4020601-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF5FAA1.4020601@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Nov 2009, James Knott wrote: > Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > > > bottom line - i'm interested in what video capabilities and display > > resolution i should look for in a new laptop that would be most > > compatible with current and upcoming video standards. pointers to > > relevant web pages would be just fine, thanks. > > > > > > > > I'd be tempted to go with 1920 x 1080, as that matches all the home video > stuff. > > BTW, you may want to check your computer date. It appears you sent > your email last Sunday. i did. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 8 02:10:34 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:10:34 -0500 Subject: OT: Laptop HD In-Reply-To: References: <4AF5B574.1060602@gmail.com> <4AF5CED1.2050009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF6289A.5040906@gmail.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > On 11/7/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Colin McGregor wrote: >>> On 11/7/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> (edited for brevity) >> >>>> I am looking for a 500 GB HD >>> There may be an issue here. I have seen some BIOSes that have an upper >>> limit as to the size of HD they can support. Check up on your laptop >>> to see: >>> >>> - What is the upper limit of the size of HD it can currently support? >>> - If the above number is too low, see if there is a BIOS upgrade for >>> your laptop... >>> >>> Other than that, keep in mind that you will pay a real premium for a >>> laptop HD, but otherwise ... have fun. >> I didn't think of the upper limit and checking what my bios can handle. If >> the >> laptop can handle an external 1TB drive connect to USB port, I am guessing >> it >> can handle 500 GB internally? Is there a case this might not be true? > > The max. size of an internal drive is a question of the OS + BIOS. The > external dive is just an OS question. So, yes there are situations > where you can have a working external drive that will not work as an > internal drive... > > You will need to do a little bit of research re: your laptop... I found out from the tech guy at TigerDirect that if my system is not older than 4yrs I should be ok with a 500 GB drive. I ended up settling for 320 GB, installed Kubuntu 9.04 x86_64 on it, it's working like a charm... WinXP has been replaced and may live again in VirtualBox. I could have done the dual boot, but really I'm happy with Linux. I get all the Windows at work I can handle ;) I've extended the life of my laptop for a few more years, mother earth will be happy. Funny I got a government tax for disposal, I mean *dumping* the HD. I told them for what? so they can dump all the crap in South Africa?? > > Colin. > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 8 06:36:59 2009 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 22:36:59 -0800 Subject: hoping to clarify standard video resolutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <712ca2da0911072236j2328a3f6i63dea338589581cb@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 5:33 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > ?i'm currently considering getting a new laptop with better screen > res that the one i have now (1280x800), and i'm going slightly bonkers > trying to keep up with everyone's slightly shifting definitions of > video standards, so let me be a bit verbose. > > ?let's start here -- > http://compreviews.about.com/od/video/a/NoteVidSpec.htm -- where we > allegedly see a list of official screen resolutions: > > ? ?* WVGA: 800x480 > ? ?* SVGA: 800x600 > ? ?* WSVGA: 1024x600 > ? ?* XGA: 1024x768 > ? ?* WXGA: 1280x800 or 1366x768 > ? ?* SXGA: 1280x1024 > ? ?* SXGA+: 1400x1050 > ? ?* WXGA+: 1440x900 > ? ?* WSXGA+: 1680x1050 > ? ?* UXGA: 1600x1200 > ? ?* WUXGA: 1920x1200 or 1920x1080 > > first, note the two possibilities for WXGA -- lately, i've seen > 1366x768 labelled as "HD WXGA", which would make sense, i can live > with that. > > ?what is a bit puzzling is where that resolution came from. ?i've > seen the explanation that that's the largest native resolution that is > still 16:9 and could fit into 1Meg of pixels -- in short, a totally > arbitrary set of values that is simply pushed to the limit. ?it sounds > good, except that 1366*768 = 1049088, which is *larger* than 1Meg, > which is 1048576. ?so that explanation doesn't really make sense, > unless that slight overage doesn't hurt anything. As far as standards goes, the line between a TV and a computer monitor has burred in recent years. It used to be 16:10 was 'computer' widescreen and 16:9 was 'tv widescreen' (because movies are shot with a 16:9 aspect ratio). The problems with all the UWXVGA123 labeling is due to a lack of a standards body to deal with this stuff. I may be mistaken, but I've felt like the naming for resolutions has been fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants for a while now. The introduction of *even more* 'standard' resolutions just adds to the confusion. Especially with introductions of things like the netbooks and their smaller form factors. On the non-computer side of things just look at the situation with televisions. A while back the new televisions were advertised as 'digitial televisions', then 'hd televisions.' There were plenty of people that went into a store thinking that 'digitalTV = HDTV,' and I'm sure many walked out thinking they would go home and instantly get their OTA television in higher quality. Then there was the onslaught of HDTVs, many of which could only do 720p, but only advertised themselves as 'HD' in the hopes that people wouldn't know the difference between 720p, 1080i and 1080p. Wikipedia sorts things like[1]: 1280x720 = "WXGA, min" 1280x768 = "WXGA, avg" 1280x800 = "WXGA, avg" 1366x768 = "WXGA, max" Oh, and I had a PowerBook G4 that I had was 1280x854 which doesn't even have a 'standard' name. Looking further into this, it looks like the 1366x768 resolution usage in computers is just an artifact of the migration to 16:9 resolutions for computers. Most of the initial hits from Google return people complaining about HDTVs being distributed with that resolution instead of 1280x720.[2][3][4] [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_resolutions [2]: http://hd1080i.blogspot.com/2006/12/1080i-on-1366x768-resolution-problems.html [3]: http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/04/21/whats-the-deal-with-1366-x-768/ [4]: http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=471096 -- Brandon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 8 06:57:43 2009 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 22:57:43 -0800 Subject: Recommendations for lightweight Window Manager? In-Reply-To: <1257283016.3187.548.camel@gont> References: <20091103054226.GA21238@waltdnes.org> <4AEFC3A7.9010309@linuxcaffe.ca> <1257283016.3187.548.camel@gont> Message-ID: <712ca2da0911072257u2350a1e5g3f7bce8116f3af2a@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Matt Price wrote: > (if i remember right, it was awesome which wanted me to learn lua to set key bindings, which seemed a bit much). Almost all of the minimalist window managers will require this to some extent. Picking up the amount of Lua needed to configure Awesome was pretty easy for me. On the other hand, trying to learn Haskell just from people's Xmonad config files.... is a *bit* much[1]. [1] This is mostly due to Haskell syntax. The Haskell compiler does a bunch of evaluation that you can't get from just reading some quick syntax. (i.e. "a b c" could be "(a b c)" or "(a (b c))" depending on types and declarations which are usually hidden away in libraries somewhere. It took me a *long* time to figure this out while trying to avoid learning the entire language just to configure things) -- Brandon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 01:32:48 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:32:48 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <4AF119FA.8060706-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF77140.6010505@gmail.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ > Kubuntu 9.10 (x32_64) fails to install on my Laptop for some reason. Right after the 1st step to select language then pick install. The screen goes blank with no activity on the CD or HD. So I had to install Kubuntu 9.04 (x32_64) which is working without any problems except for the odd refresh problem when a the toolbar popup get displayed and then disappears leaving a blue patch. This happen so infrequent I can live with it. Where can I report my bug for 9.10? Does someone have a direct link or do I just post onto the "Install" forums. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 02:02:31 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 21:02:31 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <4AF77140.6010505-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <4AF77140.6010505@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0911081802u1a7c5a52o5cac9e8d7d35f6cd@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ >> > > Kubuntu 9.10 (x32_64) fails to install on my Laptop for some reason. Right > after the 1st step to select language then pick install. The screen goes > blank with no activity on the CD or HD. > > So I had to install Kubuntu 9.04 (x32_64) which is working without any > problems except for the odd refresh problem when a the toolbar popup get > displayed and then disappears leaving a blue patch. This happen so > infrequent I can live with it. > > Where can I report my bug for 9.10? Does someone have a direct link or do I > just post onto the "Install" forums. > Perhaps you might try the safe graphics mode settings (selectable at the boot prompt) in case it has some weird issue with your graphics card? Doesn't make much sense for the GUI installer to bug out like that. If you have two machines you could install SSH while booted from CD and set the root password, then SSH to the machine and see what happens when things "go dark" > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > http://DevMentor.org > > Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 02:58:43 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:58:43 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0911081802u1a7c5a52o5cac9e8d7d35f6cd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <4AF77140.6010505@gmail.com> <3a97ef0911081802u1a7c5a52o5cac9e8d7d35f6cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF78563.8010803@gmail.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ >>> >> Kubuntu 9.10 (x32_64) fails to install on my Laptop for some reason. Right >> after the 1st step to select language then pick install. The screen goes >> blank with no activity on the CD or HD. >> >> So I had to install Kubuntu 9.04 (x32_64) which is working without any >> problems except for the odd refresh problem when a the toolbar popup get >> displayed and then disappears leaving a blue patch. This happen so >> infrequent I can live with it. >> >> Where can I report my bug for 9.10? Does someone have a direct link or do I >> just post onto the "Install" forums. >> Hi Tyler excellent suggestion, that is a cool idea wit h SSH to track down the issues. Unfortunately I have no interest to track down this bug, too much on my plate to get a personal project going. I would rather just log this bug to the right place. I've already spent a day setting up my laptop as a development pc. > > > Perhaps you might try the safe graphics mode settings (selectable at > the boot prompt) in case it has some weird issue with your graphics > card? > Doesn't make much sense for the GUI installer to bug out like that. If > you have two machines you could install SSH while booted from CD and > set the root password, then SSH to the machine and see what happens > when things "go dark" > >> -- >> Kind Regards, >> Rajinder Yadav >> >> http://DevMentor.org >> >> Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 15:32:25 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 15:32:25 +0000 Subject: OT: Telus "3G" network? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6@mail.gmail.com> <20091106192552.GG15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20091109153225.GH15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 05:05:07PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > Sorensen, > > > of the world. ?I believe all 3 intend to roll out LTE (or whatever 4G > > is called). ?Perhaps someone finally realizes that being tied to a > > single supplier (Qualcomm) with a bad attitude isn't good for business > > long term, and that being able to have your users roam anywhere in the > > world is profitable. > > Well said. Basically, choosing CDMA was a very bonehead move on their > side. It was doomed from the word go because of patent. Well, that > would have been ok if there was no patent free alternative, but in > this case, GSM did have that property. This meant everybody except > North Americans went GSM and it took the lion share of the market. > Handset manufactures therefore tended to release all the nice phones > for GSM, and CDMA phones were mostly an after thought. And as if > market share disadvantage was not enough, Qualcomm was not helping to > say the least. > > They actually initially wanted to wait until LTE comes out around > 2011. However, they realized waiting that long would have essentially > sealed their fate, considering all the nice smart phones are GSM > based. By 2011, majority of the people in developed country should be > carrying around a smart phone. > > So, essentially, they have spent around half a billion on GSM, and in > 2011 roll out again a LTE network. They might not break even on this > investment, but at least, it kind of assist in retaining their current > user base. Do not feel bad at the death of CDMA, and its kind a good > lesson to the pro patent mindsets Well it was the reason I switched from Bell to Rogers for my cell phone last year. Not that I think rogers is a great company, but for cell phones GSM is the way to go. At least now I could keep my cell phone number when I moved. I even told the Bell guys when I canceled that I wanted GSM and that since they didn't have it they were of no use. My wife dropped her phone and it broke and having to go to bell to get a new one simply sucks. With GSM I can just move the SIM card to another phone and it's back in business. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 15:33:44 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 15:33:44 +0000 Subject: OT: Telus "3G" network? In-Reply-To: <491f66a50911062041m2dfb67cbjc7a6f9a1f1bbdd05-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6@mail.gmail.com> <20091107023538.GB3693@watson-wilon.ca> <491f66a50911062041m2dfb67cbjc7a6f9a1f1bbdd05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091109153344.GI15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 11:41:36PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > Actually they haven't changed to GSM they are rolling out HSPA > > I dont think my G1 works on their network :( Yeah I don't think their network will support G1 and G2 GSM phones at all. Just the new ones with third generation support. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 15:37:04 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 15:37:04 +0000 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: <20091109153704.GJ15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 04:16:43PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Thomas Milne > > | Running a mixed Testing and Unstable system, I've never experienced > | one single serious breakage. > > With Ubuntu, you are directed to run the latest version, with updates, > or the latest LTS version, with updates. That seems pretty simple. > > Whenever people recommend Debian, the recipe seems more complicated. > > Simple version: > > - Run stable is you want stability (and movement at the rate of tectonic > drift). Still faster than Ubuntu LTS though. > - Run testing even though it may be unsafe. Really, it is supposed to > be almost safe. > > - Run unstable if you "like to live on the edge" Which is still safer than many distributions' release versions. > The actual recommendation from people I trust is "run some mixture of these". I rarely mix them, although occationally one or two packages backported can be handy. > How is one to know what mixture to run? It seems like it would be a > lot of work to figure this out correctly. > > Oh, and another confusion: at any one time, stable and testing each > have a name (of a character from Toy Story). When a new stable > release is released, the name of the old "testing" becomes the name of > the new stable. But unstable is always called Sid. So new name is > invented for testing. At least I think that is how it works. Yep. That's the idea. > I don't run Debian mostly because I don't know what mixture to run and > I don't have to decide this with the distros I do use (CentOS, Fedora, > and Ubuntu). > > Continuous (as opposed to discontinuous) updating is attractive. > Lennart seems to say that works with Debian, even when a new version > becomes stable or testing. But Lennart seems to be capable of easily > solving problems that others find daunting. Well the install I did in 1999 is still upgrading fine. It has been pointed at unstable at times, stable other times, testing sometimes. Eventually everything ends up in stable so you can actually move to stable eventually even if you are on unstable. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 15:44:13 2009 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:44:13 -0500 Subject: OT: Telus "3G" network? In-Reply-To: <20091109153344.GI15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6@mail.gmail.com> <20091107023538.GB3693@watson-wilon.ca> <491f66a50911062041m2dfb67cbjc7a6f9a1f1bbdd05@mail.gmail.com> <20091109153344.GI15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <5390d2750911090744k63bd8625me8a906f5413ad7b@mail.gmail.com> Indeed. They deployed the newer technology directly, ie they did not follow the GSM->UMTS upgrade path such as other GSM carriers in North America. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe what you need is a phone using UMTS, on the 850 or 1900 frequencies. (I would not rely on the "G" aka "Generation" terminology as it has meant different things in different contexts). cheers, jon On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Fri, Nov 06, 2009 at 11:41:36PM -0500, Dave Cramer wrote: > > Actually they haven't changed to GSM they are rolling out HSPA > > > > I dont think my G1 works on their network :( > > Yeah I don't think their network will support G1 and G2 GSM phones at all. > Just the new ones with third generation support. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 16:13:03 2009 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:13:03 -0500 Subject: OT: Telus "3G" network? In-Reply-To: <5390d2750911090744k63bd8625me8a906f5413ad7b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911061119l454d8352k42859d84e3fa0eb6@mail.gmail.com> <20091107023538.GB3693@watson-wilon.ca> <491f66a50911062041m2dfb67cbjc7a6f9a1f1bbdd05@mail.gmail.com> <20091109153344.GI15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <5390d2750911090744k63bd8625me8a906f5413ad7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <491f66a50911090813y78198102qecb06814e87967f@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Jon VanAlten wrote: > Indeed. ?They deployed the newer technology directly, ie they did not follow > the GSM->UMTS upgrade path such as other GSM carriers in North America. > ?Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe what you need is a phone > using UMTS, on the 850 or 1900 frequencies. ?(I would not rely on the "G" > aka "Generation" terminology as it has meant different things in different > contexts). > cheers, > jon Yes, it's UMTS 850/1900. The android G1 does not support it. On a positive note Telus is selling a HTC Hero which is android and does work! Although I'm locked in to bell for a few more years :( Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 16:36:49 2009 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:36:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Meeting Tuesday: Pro Bash Programming Message-ID: I can have some copies of my book, Pro Bash Programming, available at the meeting tomorrow for $25.00 each if anyone is interested. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 16:40:04 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 11:40:04 -0500 Subject: Proportional disk imaging of EXT3 drive Message-ID: <4AF845E4.5050506@tmis.ca> I remember in the past doing disk imaging and doing proportional copying. 80GB SATA2 with 3 EXT partitions configured as RAID1 (AUTORAID type) I forget what I used to do that with. g4l/partedmagic/pm8/ghost/ Any ideas what is was? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 17:03:30 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:03:30 +0000 Subject: Proportional disk imaging of EXT3 drive In-Reply-To: <4AF845E4.5050506-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF845E4.5050506@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20091109170330.GK15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 11:40:04AM -0500, teddy mills wrote: > I remember in the past doing disk imaging and doing > proportional copying. > > 80GB SATA2 with 3 EXT partitions configured as RAID1 (AUTORAID type) > > I forget what I used to do that with. g4l/partedmagic/pm8/ghost/ > > Any ideas what is was? Well parted does resize and partition copy, so perhaps it can do it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 17:12:08 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:12:08 +0000 Subject: OT: Laptop HD In-Reply-To: <4AF5B574.1060602-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF5B574.1060602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091109171208.GL15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 12:59:16PM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I got a Compaq Ppresario R4225CA laptop that I want to put in a larger > hard drive. Does anyone know where I may be able to purchase one locally? > > I pulled out the drive, and it's a Segate 100 GB AT Disk Drive, if I > could buy something online I would buy it, but I don't know the dimension > of this tiny thing. > > Are all AT laptop drive the same size? > I am looking for a 500 GB HD Well if it is IDE (44pin connector) then check if it is a 9.5mm or 12mm thick drive. Simply measuring it should tell. A 12mm drive only fits in machines that take 12mm drives. A 9.5mm fits in either a 9.5 or a 12mm bay. I know canada computers sells laptop drives, and probably other stores do too. For example: WD3200BEVE is a 320GB IDE from WD. It is a 9.5mm drive. Canada computers has those. I don't think anyone makes a 500GB IDE laptop drive. I think only SATA for the new large sizes. IDE is simply obsolete and only old models would use it, so the new drive models won't be coming out for IDE anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 17:18:27 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:18:27 +0000 Subject: OT: Laptop HD In-Reply-To: <4AF5CED1.2050009-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF5B574.1060602@gmail.com> <4AF5CED1.2050009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091109171827.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 02:47:29PM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I didn't think of the upper limit and checking what my bios can handle. > If the laptop can handle an external 1TB drive connect to USB port, I am > guessing it can handle 500 GB internally? Is there a case this might not > be true? Nothing to do with each other. The USB drive's limit depends what the USB adapter chip is capable of doing. If the chipset and BIOS can do LBA48, then you can use larger than 137GB drives. I believe the chipset in your case should be fine based on a quick search. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 17:29:43 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:29:43 +0000 Subject: hoping to clarify standard video resolutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091109172943.GN15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 01, 2009 at 08:33:18AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > i'm currently considering getting a new laptop with better screen > res that the one i have now (1280x800), and i'm going slightly bonkers > trying to keep up with everyone's slightly shifting definitions of > video standards, so let me be a bit verbose. > > let's start here -- > http://compreviews.about.com/od/video/a/NoteVidSpec.htm -- where we > allegedly see a list of official screen resolutions: > > * WVGA: 800x480 > * SVGA: 800x600 > * WSVGA: 1024x600 > * XGA: 1024x768 > * WXGA: 1280x800 or 1366x768 Or 1280x768. > * SXGA: 1280x1024 I always hated that one. It made weird pixels (1280x960 was proper 4:3 with square pixels). > * SXGA+: 1400x1050 > * WXGA+: 1440x900 > * WSXGA+: 1680x1050 That's what I have on my laptop. > * UXGA: 1600x1200 > * WUXGA: 1920x1200 or 1920x1080 > > first, note the two possibilities for WXGA -- lately, i've seen > 1366x768 labelled as "HD WXGA", which would make sense, i can live > with that. Except it is the one resolution that sucks MOST for viewing HD. Just like all cheap HDTVs that use the same totally idiotic resolution. The TV signal for HD is 1280x720 or 1920x1080. Not 1366x768 or any other crap like that. If your native resolution is 1280x720 (or x768 or 800) you can fit the picture full size with no scaling. If it is 1366x768 then you either get black borders all around, or a really nasty scaling job. A 1920x1080 signal simply has to be scaled down 3x3 to 2x2 pixels which is a rather clean scaling job, just like 2x2 scales up to 3x3 when a 1280x720 signal is viewed on a full 1920x1080 HD display. Nice small integer scale factors are what you want. 1366x768 is a scaling of 15x15 to 16x16 pixels. Eww. > what is a bit puzzling is where that resolution came from. i've > seen the explanation that that's the largest native resolution that is > still 16:9 and could fit into 1Meg of pixels -- in short, a totally > arbitrary set of values that is simply pushed to the limit. it sounds > good, except that 1366*768 = 1049088, which is *larger* than 1Meg, > which is 1048576. so that explanation doesn't really make sense, > unless that slight overage doesn't hurt anything. My best guess for the resolution is that many controller chips were designed for 1024x768 and hence supporting that on projectors fit many computer users. Making it support 1366x768 allowed both 1024x768 (with side black borders) and the ability to claim 16:9 aspect ratio (even though 1280x720 would have been a better choice). > and here's where i'm going with this. how does all this match up > with *video* standards? because, these days, it makes sense when > selecting a laptop to try to get one that's compatible with HDTV > standards, no? > > as i read it, HDTV is defined as having a 16:9 aspect ratio, the two > standard resolutions being 1280x720 (720p), and 1920x1080 (1080i, > given that 1080p is still way too high-end for consumer stuff, yes?) > however, you can certainly purchase 1366x768 HD TVs that advertise > being 720p. i assume that means the incoming signal is upscaled to > fit in 1366x768. Correct. Or black borders (preferable for sure in that case but almost certainly not what you get on a TV). > and to tie this back to laptops, if i'm willing to spend more to > get better resolution, where are laptop resolutions going these days? > making any effort to converge on HD TV standards? i was at future > shop a while back and asked the salesweasel about models with full > WUXGA (1920x1200) res, and he told me that they rarely see those > anymore, as all laptop manufacturers are moving over to 1920x1080, > allegedly to match HD 1080i. Lots of 24" displays are 1920x1200. Only the cheap ones are doing 1920x1080 now. The more expensive quality screens are still 1920x1200. > it's even more annoying now that i'm seeing various laptops with > screen resolutions of 1440x900 (yes, that's 1.6:1, HD aspect ratio) > being marketed as being "900p". to the best of my knowledge, there is > no such video standard as 900p. (i suspect that, in short order, i'll > run across 1680x1050 being marketed as "1050p", another non-existent > 1.6:1 standard.) Some are 16:10 (like 1280x800), some are 16:9 (1280x720 for example), some are 15:9 (like 1280x768). > bottom line - i'm interested in what video capabilities and display > resolution i should look for in a new laptop that would be most > compatible with current and upcoming video standards. pointers to > relevant web pages would be just fine, thanks. > > rday > > p.s. i'm still interested in where 1366x768 came from. is it really > based on that 1M pixel count, so that a single frame would fit in 1M > of video memory, even though it doesn't quite match? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 17:31:17 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:31:17 +0000 Subject: hoping to clarify standard video resolutions In-Reply-To: <4AF5FAA1.4020601-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF5FAA1.4020601@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20091109173117.GO15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 05:54:25PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > I'd be tempted to go with 1920 x 1080, as that matches all the home > video stuff. For computer work I prefer vertical space, so for me 1200 is minimum. 1920x1200 does that and also handles 1920x1080 (with a slight black bar at the top and bottom, but no scaling required, and a good place for subtitles or the video playback controls to fit). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 17:44:33 2009 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 12:44:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: ESRI shapefile Message-ID: Does anyone know of Linux software for viewing ESRI shapefiles? -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 9 17:59:33 2009 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 12:59:33 -0500 Subject: ESRI shapefile In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5390d2750911090959j7db86c2asc24fed76f08b1e33@mail.gmail.com> I don't know for certain as I haven't used it myself, but I've heard Grass is a leading open-source GIS software. jon On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > Does anyone know of Linux software for viewing ESRI shapefiles? > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster > Author: > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 00:02:26 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:02:26 -0500 Subject: OT: Laptop HD In-Reply-To: <20091109171208.GL15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF5B574.1060602@gmail.com> <20091109171208.GL15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AF8AD92.6050708@gmail.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Nov 07, 2009 at 12:59:16PM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> I got a Compaq Ppresario R4225CA laptop that I want to put in a larger >> hard drive. Does anyone know where I may be able to purchase one locally? >> >> I pulled out the drive, and it's a Segate 100 GB AT Disk Drive, if I >> could buy something online I would buy it, but I don't know the dimension >> of this tiny thing. >> >> Are all AT laptop drive the same size? >> I am looking for a 500 GB HD > > Well if it is IDE (44pin connector) then check if it is a 9.5mm or 12mm > thick drive. Simply measuring it should tell. A 12mm drive only fits > in machines that take 12mm drives. A 9.5mm fits in either a 9.5 or a > 12mm bay. > > I know canada computers sells laptop drives, and probably other stores > do too. > > For example: > WD3200BEVE is a 320GB IDE from WD. It is a 9.5mm drive. Canada computers has those. > > I don't think anyone makes a 500GB IDE laptop drive. I think only SATA > for the new large sizes. IDE is simply obsolete and only old models > would use it, so the new drive models won't be coming out for IDE anymore. > Thanks Lennart, I managed to install a 320GB HD and install Linux without a hitch. As I posted already the old 100GB HD was turned into a mini portable USB drive. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 01:29:30 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:29:30 -0500 Subject: sudo'er Message-ID: <4AF8C1FA.6000504@gmail.com> Is there a way I cam make myself a sudo'er so that I don't need to type in the password when I type sudo ? I know it's a security hole, but if it can be done what do I need to do. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 01:33:20 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:33:20 -0500 Subject: Any GoogleWave'res? Message-ID: <4AF8C2E0.5060408@gmail.com> I just got invited to GoogleWave, but I don't think I have a way to send out invites. If I get any I will let the list know. If anyone is on GoogleWave already, you can add me at my email addy. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 02:07:19 2009 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 21:07:19 -0500 Subject: sudo'er In-Reply-To: <4AF8C1FA.6000504-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF8C1FA.6000504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2274b9c30911091807k77a5988o8d253d60801ea684@mail.gmail.com> NOPASSWD: ## Same thing without a password # %wheel ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Is there a way I cam make myself a sudo'er so that I don't need to type in > the password when I type sudo ? I know it's a security hole, but if > it can be done what do I need to do. > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > http://DevMentor.org > > Do Good! - Share Freely > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 02:56:51 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 21:56:51 -0500 Subject: Any GoogleWave'res? In-Reply-To: <4AF8C2E0.5060408-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF8C2E0.5060408@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I just got invited to GoogleWave, but I don't think I have a way to send out > invites. If I get any I will let the list know. > > If anyone is on GoogleWave already, you can add me at my email addy. Done, and I've added you to a wave where there has been some discussion as to the usefulness of Wave. A significant problem at this point is that Wave is, as a service, on the "lean end" of the so-called Network Effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect The network is not valuable, at this point, because there are insufficient quantities of users. Another problem that merits mention here is that, unlike with email, there is at this point only one way of participating in Wave, which is to connect to Google's servers, which makes it effectively proprietary (even if they're using some RFC-ish protocol). If and when I can run apt-get install wave-federation and some can run yum install wave-federation and others port-install wave-federation then that changes things substantially. And that actually isn't quite the whole tale... I'd also like to be able to do things like... PKGS="wave-federation-server wave-federation-pgsql" apt-get install $PKGS PKGS="erlang-wave-server mnesia-federation-store" apt-get install $PKGS (Which imply some diversity in implementations of both service and data storage!) There's an interesting guide from the Lifehacker folks: The first "chapter" has a pretty good characterization of what's weird about Wave. I love the line "it's like Segway for email." That implies a considerable risk of it being mostly just a curiosity... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Pablo Picasso - "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 02:57:52 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 21:57:52 -0500 Subject: sudo'er In-Reply-To: <4AF8C1FA.6000504-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF8C1FA.6000504@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Is there a way I cam make myself a sudo'er so that I don't need to type in > the password when I type sudo ? I know it's a security hole, but if > it can be done what do I need to do. Yes, there is a way to do that. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Jonathan Swift - "May you live every day of your life." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jonathan_swift.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 04:02:50 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:02:50 -0500 Subject: Any GoogleWave'res? In-Reply-To: References: <4AF8C2E0.5060408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF8E5EA.9080704@gmail.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> I just got invited to GoogleWave, but I don't think I have a way to send out >> invites. If I get any I will let the list know. >> >> If anyone is on GoogleWave already, you can add me at my email addy. > > Done, and I've added you to a wave where there has been some > discussion as to the usefulness of Wave. > > A significant problem at this point is that Wave is, as a service, on > the "lean end" of the so-called Network Effect. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect The network is not > valuable, at this point, because there are insufficient quantities of > users. > > Another problem that merits mention here is that, unlike with email, > there is at this point only one way of participating in Wave, which is > to connect to Google's servers, which makes it effectively proprietary > (even if they're using some RFC-ish protocol). > > If and when I can run > apt-get install wave-federation > and some can run > yum install wave-federation > and others > port-install wave-federation > then that changes things substantially. > > And that actually isn't quite the whole tale... I'd also like to be > able to do things like... > > PKGS="wave-federation-server wave-federation-pgsql" > apt-get install $PKGS > > PKGS="erlang-wave-server mnesia-federation-store" > apt-get install $PKGS > > (Which imply some diversity in implementations of both service and > data storage!) > > There's an interesting guide from the Lifehacker folks: > The first "chapter" has a pretty good > characterization of what's weird about Wave. > > I love the line "it's like Segway for email." That implies a > considerable risk of it being mostly just a curiosity... Hi Christopher, I noticed someone invited me/pulled me into a wave =P, thanks for clearing up the Wave convo for me and providing the link to the Network effect. Should be easier to follow the discussion. I had to delete that stupid crazy-chief bot that was messing up all my posting, did you notice that bot? Anyways if I removed an actual person, please add him back, and also the emotion-icon bot? -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 10:47:45 2009 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 05:47:45 -0500 Subject: Any GoogleWave'res? In-Reply-To: References: <4AF8C2E0.5060408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <491f66a50911100247w675d2423mcd379c96a8a3345f@mail.gmail.com> Chris, I'd like to be invited as well. Dave On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> I just got invited to GoogleWave, but I don't think I have a way to send out >> invites. If I get any I will let the list know. >> >> If anyone is on GoogleWave already, you can add me at my email addy. > > Done, and I've added you to a wave where there has been some > discussion as to the usefulness of Wave. > > A significant problem at this point is that Wave is, as a service, on > the "lean end" of the so-called Network Effect. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect ?The network is not > valuable, at this point, because there are insufficient quantities of > users. > > Another problem that merits mention here is that, unlike with email, > there is at this point only one way of participating in Wave, which is > to connect to Google's servers, which makes it effectively proprietary > (even if they're using some RFC-ish protocol). > > If and when I can run > ?apt-get install wave-federation > and some can run > ?yum install wave-federation > and others > ?port-install wave-federation > then that changes things substantially. > > And that actually isn't quite the whole tale... ?I'd also like to be > able to do things like... > > PKGS="wave-federation-server wave-federation-pgsql" > ? apt-get install $PKGS > > PKGS="erlang-wave-server mnesia-federation-store" > ? apt-get install $PKGS > > (Which imply some diversity in implementations of both service and > data storage!) > > There's an interesting guide from the Lifehacker folks: > ?The first "chapter" has a pretty good > characterization of what's weird about Wave. > > I love the line "it's like Segway for email." ?That implies a > considerable risk of it being mostly just a curiosity... > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > Pablo Picasso ?- "Computers are useless. They can only give you > answers." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 12:53:24 2009 From: alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:53:24 -0300 Subject: Any GoogleWave'res? In-Reply-To: References: <4AF8C2E0.5060408@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:56 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Rajinder Yadav > wrote: > > I just got invited to GoogleWave, but I don't think I have a way to send > out > > invites. If I get any I will let the list know. > > > > If anyone is on GoogleWave already, you can add me at my email addy. > > Done, and I've added you to a wave where there has been some > discussion as to the usefulness of Wave. > > A significant problem at this point is that Wave is, as a service, on > the "lean end" of the so-called Network Effect. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect The network is not > valuable, at this point, because there are insufficient quantities of > users. > > Another problem that merits mention here is that, unlike with email, > there is at this point only one way of participating in Wave, which is > to connect to Google's servers, which makes it effectively proprietary > (even if they're using some RFC-ish protocol). > > If and when I can run > apt-get install wave-federation > and some can run > yum install wave-federation > and others > port-install wave-federation > then that changes things substantially. > > And that actually isn't quite the whole tale... I'd also like to be > able to do things like... > > PKGS="wave-federation-server wave-federation-pgsql" > apt-get install $PKGS > > PKGS="erlang-wave-server mnesia-federation-store" > apt-get install $PKGS > > (Which imply some diversity in implementations of both service and > data storage!) > > The Wave protocol is open and it's already a open source implementation floating around (developed by Google). You can get it from the Wave protocol web at http://www.waveprotocol.org/ In a near future, there will be complete suites to make our own Wave federated servers. There's an interesting guide from the Lifehacker folks: > The first "chapter" has a pretty good > characterization of what's weird about Wave. > > I love the line "it's like Segway for email." That implies a > considerable risk of it being mostly just a curiosity... > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > Pablo Picasso - "Computers are useless. They can only give you > answers." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Alexandre Alencar (Skarmeth) http://blog.alexandrealencar.net/ http://www.alexandrealencar.net/ ITIL, CSM, LPI, MCP-I, MCP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 14:03:53 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:03:53 -0500 Subject: ESRI shapefile In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > ? Does anyone know of Linux software for viewing ESRI shapefiles? Grass, Qgis, openJUMP, etc. If you just want to view, pan, zoom. I found OpenJump a quick way to get started. There were a full dozen F/LOSS desktop GIS apps covered in a presentation at CossFest 2009. There are tools to convert shape files to OpenStreetMap format as well, so you can use the OSM stack if that is your preference. And if you wish to convert to GML you can work with OpenLayers and others. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 15:24:38 2009 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:24:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: NFS alternatives? In-Reply-To: References: <20027.72868.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <937594.31054.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thank you all for your suggestions. It's good to have some alternatives should NFS be deemed not secure enough. ----- Original Message ---- > From: Christopher Browne > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Thu, November 5, 2009 2:01:38 PM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: NFS alternatives? > > > In principle, options ought to include: > > - OpenAFS > - 9P (from Plan 9) > - Coda > - Intermezzo -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 16:57:45 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:57:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: NFS alternatives? In-Reply-To: References: <20027.72868.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Nov 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: > In principle, options ought to include: > - OpenAFS > - 9P (from Plan 9) > - Coda > - Intermezzo There are also Lustre, GlusterFS, XtreemFS, and a bunch of choices in a long list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_file_systems#Distributed_file_systems > Some of those are pretty heavy on administrative overhead; > none are as easy as: Indeed. :-) -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 17:11:13 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:11:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Framed for child porn by computer virus Message-ID: Computer virus / trojan horses may download / access child porn, leave you with the blame and jail time. ------ http://www.arifsaha.com/ forwarded messages ------ http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iFP7nhggkjFFeVx5PS60H2O4qeIwD9BRFQ680 > AP IMPACT: Framed for child porn _ by a PC virus ... > Of all the sinister things that Internet viruses do, this > might be the worst: They can make you an unsuspecting > collector of child pornography. ... > Pedophiles can exploit virus-infected PCs to remotely store > and view their stash without fear they'll get caught. > Pranksters or someone trying to frame you can tap viruses to > make it appear that you surf illegal Web sites. > > Whatever the motivation, you get child porn on your computer ? > and might not realize it until police knock at your door. > > An Associated Press investigation found cases in which > innocent people have been branded as pedophiles after their > co-workers or loved ones stumbled upon child porn placed on a > PC through a virus. ... > Fiola was fired and charged with possession of child > pornography, which carries up to five years in prison. He > endured death threats, his car tires were slashed and he was > shunned by friends. > > Fiola and his wife fought the case, spending $250,000 on legal > fees. They liquidated their savings, took a second mortgage > and sold their car. > > An inspection for his defense revealed the laptop was severely > infected. It was programmed to visit as many as 40 child porn > sites per minute ? an inhuman feat. While Fiola and his wife > were out to dinner one night, someone logged on to the > computer and porn flowed in for an hour and a half. ... > The Fiolas say they have health problems from the stress of > the case. They say they've talked to dozens of lawyers but > can't get one to sue the state, because of a cap on the amount > they can recover. > > "It ruined my life, my wife's life and my family's life," he > says. ... > In one case, an infected e-mail or pop-up ad poisoned a > defense contractor's PC and downloaded the offensive pictures. > > In the other, a virus changed the home page on a man's Web > browser to display child porn, a discovery made by his > 7-year-old daughter. The man spent more than a week in jail > and three months in a halfway house, and lost custody of his > daughter. ... > the manager had visited a site for pirated software. It > redirected visitors to child porn sites if they were inactive > for a certain period. ... > a computer was so "extensively infected" that it would be > "virtually impossible" to prove what an indictment alleged: > that a 16-year-old who used the PC had uploaded child > pornography to a Yahoo group. ... > Loehrs testified that Solon's antivirus software wasn't > working properly and appeared to have shut off for long > stretches, a sign of an infection. She found no evidence the > five child porn videos on Solon's computer had been viewed or > downloaded fully. The porn was in a folder the file-sharing > program labeled as "incomplete" because the downloads were > canceled or generated an error. > > This defense was curtailed, however, when Loehrs ended her > investigation in a dispute with the judge over her fees. ... > "Computers are not to be trusted," says Jeremiah Grossman, > founder of WhiteHat Security Inc. He describes it as > "painfully simple" to get a computer to download something the > owner doesn't want ? whether it's a program that displays ads > or one that stores illegal pictures. ... http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/PCWorld/story?id=5188541 > A Misconfigured Laptop, a Wrecked Life ... > I was just paralyzed, I couldn't do anything. I can't describe > the feeling to you. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. > It's just devastating. > > If you get in a car accident and you kill somebody, people > talk to you afterwards. All our friends abandoned us. The only > family that stood by us was my dad, her parents, my > stepdaughter and one other good friend of ours. And that was > it. Nobody called. We spent many weekends at home just crying. > I'm 53 years old and I don't think I've cried as much in my > whole life as I did in the past 18 months. ... > It was either a rogue hack ... or after my computer was > stolen, [the new computer] might have been loaded with the > stuff, ready to go. I'm not accusing anybody, but if it was > someone in the IT department who was doing this, [maybe they] > never had a chance to take it off of there. ... > I will never go to work for them again. I would not work for a > company that would not protect its employees. I feel they > didn't protect me. ... http://news.google.com/news/story?ncl=dVNMYKcrq6S5vvMrshLvrYPquD5GM ---------------- end forwarded messages ----------------- -- From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 18:06:08 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:06:08 -0800 Subject: DNS resolves... but doesn't.... Message-ID: <3a97ef0911101006p19754ed7wac4c6e76bea4089e@mail.gmail.com> Here's a weird one. I'm setting up a new box, and I know I must have messed something up along the way, but for the life of me I can't figure out what. My /etc/resolv.conf is correct I'm not running bind or nscd I've blacklisted IPV6 When I do a "ping" or a "dig"... my DNS happily resolves properly: $ ping download.virtualbox.org PING dlc.sun.com (72.5.124.114) 56(84) bytes of data. $ ping volatile.debian.org PING volatile.debian.org (130.89.149.227) 56(84) bytes of data. However, any other commands (Iinks, wget, apt-get, scp, ssh) can't seem to resolve DNS: W: Failed to fetch http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile/dists/lenny/volatile/non-free/i18n/Translation-en_CA.bz2 Could not resolve 'volatile.debian.org' W: Failed to fetch http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian/dists/lenny/Release.gpg Could not resolve 'download.virtualbox.org' Anyone know what might be up with this? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 18:09:46 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:09:46 -0800 Subject: NFS alternatives? In-Reply-To: References: <20027.72868.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0911101009v614bc1ccm699b392ebd14363d@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 5 Nov 2009, Matthew Godycki wrote: > >> Hi folks, >> >> I have a situation at work that is ideally solved by use of NFS (need for >> a single logical file system underpinning a variety of servers and application >> server clusters). ?Since I'm looking for an infrastructure solution, NFS seems >> like the perfect fit. >> >> However, as I understand it, over the years there have been various >> concerns about security and vulnerabilities associated with NFS. >> >> Are there any alternatives to NFS out there that provide the same type of >> service, but, without the security concerns? ?I'm working with our network >> and system admin folks but want to make sure I do some of my own >> digging around as well, to be more educated in my chats with them ;) > > ? I use sshfs. > Ditto on SSHFS, it tends to be a little more friendly and a lot more secure than NFS, though I haven't tested it for massive deployment. > -- > ? Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ? ? ? ? > ? =================================================================== > ? Author: > ? Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > ? Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 18:22:32 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:22:32 -0300 Subject: DNS resolves... but doesn't.... In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0911101006p19754ed7wac4c6e76bea4089e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911101006p19754ed7wac4c6e76bea4089e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1089a0320911101022u7955a4f0i4c884daf74c2ef21@mail.gmail.com> Well.. you can ping for example www.google.com? Can you links it? If you can ping but cannot navigate.. I think you probably have a proxy problem. Are you using any proxy like squid for example? You could check its logs.. like... tail -f /var/log/squid.conf cheers --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Here's a weird one. > I'm setting up a new box, and I know I must have messed something up > along the way, but for the life of me I can't figure out what. > > My /etc/resolv.conf is correct > I'm not running bind or nscd > I've blacklisted IPV6 > > When I do a "ping" or a "dig"... my DNS happily resolves properly: > $ ping download.virtualbox.org > PING dlc.sun.com (72.5.124.114) 56(84) bytes of data. > $ ping volatile.debian.org > PING volatile.debian.org (130.89.149.227) 56(84) bytes of data. > > However, any other commands (Iinks, wget, apt-get, scp, ssh) can't > seem to resolve DNS: > > W: Failed to fetch > > http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile/dists/lenny/volatile/non-free/i18n/Translation-en_CA.bz2 > Could not resolve 'volatile.debian.org' > > W: Failed to fetch > http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian/dists/lenny/Release.gpg > Could not resolve 'download.virtualbox.org' > > > > Anyone know what might be up with this? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 19:29:38 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:29:38 -0500 Subject: Any GoogleWave'res? In-Reply-To: References: <4AF8C2E0.5060408@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar wrote: (reduced) > The Wave protocol is open and it's already a open source implementation > floating around (developed by Google). You can get it from the Wave protocol > web at http://www.waveprotocol.org/ Hi Alexandre, thanks for the link. I am thinking of how I can incorporate GoogleWave like feature in my website that I am planing on building. Do you have more info on Wave API docs or tutorials for developers? > In a near future, there will be complete suites to make our own Wave > federated servers. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 19:34:50 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:34:50 -0500 Subject: Any GoogleWave'res? In-Reply-To: <491f66a50911100247w675d2423mcd379c96a8a3345f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF8C2E0.5060408@gmail.com> <491f66a50911100247w675d2423mcd379c96a8a3345f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Dave Cramer wrote: > Chris, > > I'd like to be invited as well. Dave sorry I don't have any invite for you FYI Chris added me to his contact, I was already on Wave, hopefully he has one for you? GL > > Dave > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>> I just got invited to GoogleWave, but I don't think I have a way to send out >>> invites. If I get any I will let the list know. >>> >>> If anyone is on GoogleWave already, you can add me at my email addy. >> >> Done, and I've added you to a wave where there has been some >> discussion as to the usefulness of Wave. >> >> A significant problem at this point is that Wave is, as a service, on >> the "lean end" of the so-called Network Effect. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect ?The network is not >> valuable, at this point, because there are insufficient quantities of >> users. >> >> Another problem that merits mention here is that, unlike with email, >> there is at this point only one way of participating in Wave, which is >> to connect to Google's servers, which makes it effectively proprietary >> (even if they're using some RFC-ish protocol). >> >> If and when I can run >> ?apt-get install wave-federation >> and some can run >> ?yum install wave-federation >> and others >> ?port-install wave-federation >> then that changes things substantially. >> >> And that actually isn't quite the whole tale... ?I'd also like to be >> able to do things like... >> >> PKGS="wave-federation-server wave-federation-pgsql" >> ? apt-get install $PKGS >> >> PKGS="erlang-wave-server mnesia-federation-store" >> ? apt-get install $PKGS >> >> (Which imply some diversity in implementations of both service and >> data storage!) >> >> There's an interesting guide from the Lifehacker folks: >> ?The first "chapter" has a pretty good >> characterization of what's weird about Wave. >> >> I love the line "it's like Segway for email." ?That implies a >> considerable risk of it being mostly just a curiosity... >> -- >> http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html >> Pablo Picasso ?- "Computers are useless. They can only give you >> answers." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 19:46:12 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:46:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: DNS resolves... but doesn't.... In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0911101006p19754ed7wac4c6e76bea4089e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911101006p19754ed7wac4c6e76bea4089e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Tyler Aviss | Here's a weird one. When in doubt, I use tcpdump (perhaps with -n to avoid tcpdump doing DNS queries of its own). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlow-AZu5J0u3PMt/LtIqEKMDMfN90d+awN/n at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 19:53:03 2009 From: tlow-AZu5J0u3PMt/LtIqEKMDMfN90d+awN/n at public.gmane.org (Tom Low-Shang) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:53:03 -0500 Subject: Any GoogleWave'res? In-Reply-To: <4AF8C2E0.5060408-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF8C2E0.5060408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091110195303.GA9955@goblin.tomlowshang.bogus> On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 08:33:20PM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I just got invited to GoogleWave, but I don't think I have a way to > send out invites. If I get any I will let the list know. > > If anyone is on GoogleWave already, you can add me at my email addy. I'm on Wave, use my gmail address below. And no, I don't have any invites either, in case anyone is wondering. -- Tom Low-Shang : Email : tlow-AZu5J0u3PMt/LtIqEKMDMfN90d+awN/n at public.gmane.org XMPP : tomlowshang-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Skype : tomlowshang -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 19:56:25 2009 From: alexandre.alencar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:56:25 -0300 Subject: Any GoogleWave'res? In-Reply-To: References: <4AF8C2E0.5060408@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Rajonder, how you doing? On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar > wrote: > > (reduced) > > > The Wave protocol is open and it's already a open source implementation > > floating around (developed by Google). You can get it from the Wave > protocol > > web at http://www.waveprotocol.org/ > > Hi Alexandre, thanks for the link. I am thinking of how I can > incorporate GoogleWave like feature in my website that I am planing on > building. > > Do you have more info on Wave API docs or tutorials for developers? > > The Google Wave APIs is available from here http://code.google.com/apis/wave/ > In a near future, there will be complete suites to make our own Wave > > federated servers. > > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > http://DevMentor.org > > Do Good! - Share Freely > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Alexandre Alencar (Skarmeth) http://blog.alexandrealencar.net/ http://www.alexandrealencar.net/ ITIL, CSM, LPI, MCP-I, MCP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 20:21:11 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:21:11 -0500 Subject: NFS alternatives? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0911101009v614bc1ccm699b392ebd14363d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20027.72868.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <3a97ef0911101009v614bc1ccm699b392ebd14363d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AF9CB37.9040807@moores.ca> Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Chris F.A. Johnson > > Ditto on SSHFS, it tends to be a little more friendly and a lot more > secure than NFS, though I haven't tested it for massive deployment. > I'm not sure it could work for a massive deployment. At least not for centrally mounted home directories the conventional way NFS does. sshfs mounted directories will only have the same access as the user that mounted them. There is no way this could work if /home is on another machine, and several users are using the client machine. I thought NFSv4 was going to include options for network encryption, or require network login before making user files accessable, or something like that. Is machine to machine encryption for filesystem data a big deal in corporate deployments, when the machines are on the same local network? A perpetrator could, I suppose, fake the UID of the user they want steal files from. Root access can be denied so they would not be able to damage the system. They would have to know the UID of the user who owns the files they want, and they would have to bring in their own Linux box. If you are concerned about file security that much, what about simply encrypting the directories? That way even spoofing the UID wont help. cheers, darryl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 20:36:48 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:36:48 -0500 Subject: Any GoogleWave'res? In-Reply-To: References: <4AF8C2E0.5060408@gmail.com> Message-ID: I got a lot of invites left if anyone wants them just email me off list. On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar wrote: > Hi Rajonder, how you doing? > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> >> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar >> wrote: >> >> (reduced) >> >> > The Wave protocol is open and it's already a open source implementation >> > floating around (developed by Google). You can get it from the Wave >> > protocol >> > web at http://www.waveprotocol.org/ >> >> Hi Alexandre, thanks for the link. I am thinking of how I can >> incorporate GoogleWave like feature in my website that I am planing on >> building. >> >> Do you have more info on Wave API docs or tutorials for developers? >> > > The Google Wave APIs is available from here > http://code.google.com/apis/wave/ > >> > In a near future, there will be complete suites to make our own Wave >> > federated servers. >> >> >> -- >> Kind Regards, >> Rajinder Yadav >> >> http://DevMentor.org >> >> Do Good! - Share Freely >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > Alexandre Alencar (Skarmeth) > http://blog.alexandrealencar.net/ > http://www.alexandrealencar.net/ > ITIL, CSM, LPI, MCP-I, MCP > > -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 20:50:56 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:50:56 -0500 Subject: NFS alternatives? In-Reply-To: <4AF9CB37.9040807-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20027.72868.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <3a97ef0911101009v614bc1ccm699b392ebd14363d@mail.gmail.com> <4AF9CB37.9040807@moores.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280911101250t369c6a7cu24f1290024a7eb9@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/10 Darryl Moore : > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Chris F.A. Johnson >> Ditto on SSHFS, it tends to be a little more friendly and a lot more >> secure than NFS, though I haven't tested it for massive deployment. > > I'm not sure it could work for a massive deployment. At least not for > centrally mounted home directories the conventional way NFS does. sshfs > mounted directories will only have the same access as the user that > mounted them. There is no way this could work if /home is on another > machine, and several users are using the client machine. Another strong negative with SSHFS (at least the last time I tried it) is that it's very sensitive to network outages. NFS (in my experience) can pick up after any length of network outage without blinking, but SSHFS died permanently and inelegantly after its built-in inactivity time-out (set in the SSH configs, usually ~15 minutes?), and the cause isn't immediately obvious. Perhaps that could be fixed by making the time-out infinite ... > I thought NFSv4 was going to include options for network encryption, or > require network login before making user files accessable, or something > like that. Is machine to machine encryption for filesystem data a big > deal in corporate deployments, when the machines are on the same local > network? All of that sounds marvelous. Is it actually happening? According to this - http://nfs.sourceforge.net/ - 2.6.x kernels support nfsv4. But is encryption implemented? Is it automatic if both client and server support v4? Has anyone used this and/or seen it in action? I used to use NFS a lot, but its relative insecurity and clear-text transmission put me off. I have less use for it now, but I'm still very interested. Thanks. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 21:00:46 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:00:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: NFS Client for Windows. Recommendation? Message-ID: <768376.65044.qm@web88103.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I see a number when I use Goggle. Can someone recommend one, to save me trial and error? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 21:08:41 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:08:41 -0500 Subject: NFS Client for Windows. Recommendation? In-Reply-To: <768376.65044.qm-hzAHYBNgke+B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <768376.65044.qm@web88103.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AF9D659.90002@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > I see a number when I use Goggle. > > Can someone recommend one, to save me trial and error? > > There is one available from Microsoft, called, IIRC, Unix Services for Windows or similar. It'll work with XP Professional, but not Home. I have no idea about Vista or Windows 7. http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=896c9688-601b-44f1-81a4-02878ff11778&displaylang=en -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 21:15:11 2009 From: edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (edward chin) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:15:11 -0500 Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <20091109153704.GJ15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF119FA.8060706@gmail.com> <20091104154253.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF1A595.6070401@alteeve.com> <4AF1AC1C.4000709@knm.org.uk> <20091109153704.GJ15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <8369b0fa0911101315s2f175084hdd5e44da3717bbee@mail.gmail.com> With the problems associated with 9.10, I find it very annoying that I cannot find 8.04, 8.10, nor 9.04 available online - all attempts lead back to 9.10 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 21:20:48 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:20:48 -0800 Subject: DNS resolves... but doesn't.... In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0911101006p19754ed7wac4c6e76bea4089e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911101006p19754ed7wac4c6e76bea4089e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0911101320x2ce3b73fxff6ec845de5764e5@mail.gmail.com> I found it. Apparently my recently configured system didn't like this in "nsswitch.conf" copied from one of the other servers (though the have the same setup): hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns mdns4 I worked after I changed that to: files mdns4_minimal dns So it's probably a bug/misconfiguration related to MDNS, which now seems to be a default part of nsswitch's config, though I don't remember that being so on earlier versions of debian. I'll probably just remove the mdns stuff entirely as it doesn't really seem to be serving a valid purpose anymore. However, I do find it odd that "ping" resolved names properly, but perhaps it doesn't use nsswitch? Maybe it's a libc bug that cropped up after I updated last. On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Here's a weird one > I'm setting up a new box, and I know I must have messed something up > along the way, but for the life of me I can't figure out what. > > My /etc/resolv.conf is correct > I'm not running bind or nscd > I've blacklisted IPV6 > > When I do a "ping" or a "dig"... my DNS happily resolves properly: > $ ping download.virtualbox.org > PING dlc.sun.com (72.5.124.114) 56(84) bytes of data. > $ ping volatile.debian.org > PING volatile.debian.org (130.89.149.227) 56(84) bytes of data. > > However, any other commands (Iinks, wget, apt-get, scp, ssh) can't > seem to resolve DNS: > > W: Failed to fetch > http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile/dists/lenny/volatile/non-free/i18n/Translation-en_CA.bz2 > ?Could not resolve 'volatile.debian.org' > > W: Failed to fetch > http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian/dists/lenny/Release.gpg > ?Could not resolve 'download.virtualbox.org' > > > > Anyone know what might be up with this? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 21:24:00 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:24:00 -0500 Subject: Odd failure last night, anyone else? Message-ID: <4AF9D9F0.5050509@alteeve.com> This is a long shot, but last night, within the span of about four or five hours, I had four independent systems fail in one form or another. Did anyone else have any failures last night? On the first, the keyboard totally freaked out and wasn't fixed by a reboot. It's still messed On the second, the wireless dropped and wouldn't come back on until the machine was powered off. On the third, the network switch locked up and four of the eight machines on the network went down. One was frozen so hard it needed a cold boot. The other three's interfaces wouldn't get an IP. Even manually assigning IPs didn't help and all needed to be power cycled before they'd pick up IPs again. In the forth case, a Xen server kernel panic'ed and rebooted. This all happened between about midnight and 4am. Anyone else have any problems around that time? These four machines are all independent and half were in Oakville and half were in Toronto. Solar flare? Gremlins? Dumb luck? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 21:27:21 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:27:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala In-Reply-To: <8369b0fa0911101315s2f175084hdd5e44da3717bbee-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <8369b0fa0911101315s2f175084hdd5e44da3717bbee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <245382.84112.qm@web88107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 11/10/09, edward chin wrote: > With the problems associated with > 9.10, I find it very annoying that I cannot > find 8.04, 8.10, nor 9.04 available online - all attempts > lead back to 9.10 http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download Click on "Alternative download options" Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 21:44:14 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:44:14 -0500 Subject: Odd failure last night, anyone else? In-Reply-To: <4AF9D9F0.5050509-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF9D9F0.5050509@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4AF9DEAE.6050202@tmis.ca> Hi Madi, I help run a DC with about 300 linux servers. We had nada. Madison Kelly wrote: > This is a long shot, but last night, within the span of about four or > five hours, I had four independent systems fail in one form or another. > Did anyone else have any failures last night? > > On the first, the keyboard totally freaked out and wasn't fixed by a > reboot. It's still messed > > On the second, the wireless dropped and wouldn't come back on until the > machine was powered off. > > On the third, the network switch locked up and four of the eight > machines on the network went down. One was frozen so hard it needed a > cold boot. The other three's interfaces wouldn't get an IP. Even > manually assigning IPs didn't help and all needed to be power cycled > before they'd pick up IPs again. > > In the forth case, a Xen server kernel panic'ed and rebooted. > > This all happened between about midnight and 4am. Anyone else have any > problems around that time? These four machines are all independent and > half were in Oakville and half were in Toronto. > > Solar flare? Gremlins? Dumb luck? > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 22:10:04 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:10:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Odd failure last night, anyone else? In-Reply-To: <4AF9D9F0.5050509-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF9D9F0.5050509@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Nov 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > This all happened between about midnight and 4am. Anyone else have any > problems around that time? These four machines are all independent and half > were in Oakville and half were in Toronto. > > Solar flare? Gremlins? Dumb luck? A localised power spike or dip could account for those problems. Is the gear on a UPS? The power problem might only have been around your house or street. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy http://www.practicalsysadmin.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 22:24:23 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:24:23 -0500 Subject: Odd failure last night, anyone else? In-Reply-To: References: <4AF9D9F0.5050509@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4AF9E817.6040504@alteeve.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 10 Nov 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> This all happened between about midnight and 4am. Anyone else have any >> problems around that time? These four machines are all independent and >> half were in Oakville and half were in Toronto. >> >> Solar flare? Gremlins? Dumb luck? > > A localised power spike or dip could account for those problems. Is the > gear on a UPS? The power problem might only have been around your house > or street. > > Rob > At home, in Oakville, the machine with the keyboard issue is on a 1300VA UPS. My laptop (the wireless one) is on a 700VA UPS. In Toronto, all servers are on a huge APC UPS. Also, there are many, many other machines on the same mains in Toronto and nothing else acted up. The Xen machine and the network are in different racks and connected only by a couple switches... Many other systems are closer. A power event did cross my mind, but I don't think so. I'm guessing it was just "one of those nights" and that was that. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 22:56:20 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:56:20 +0000 Subject: DNS resolves... but doesn't.... In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0911101006p19754ed7wac4c6e76bea4089e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911101006p19754ed7wac4c6e76bea4089e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091110225620.GP15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 10:06:08AM -0800, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Here's a weird one. > I'm setting up a new box, and I know I must have messed something up > along the way, but for the life of me I can't figure out what. > > My /etc/resolv.conf is correct > I'm not running bind or nscd > I've blacklisted IPV6 > > When I do a "ping" or a "dig"... my DNS happily resolves properly: > $ ping download.virtualbox.org > PING dlc.sun.com (72.5.124.114) 56(84) bytes of data. > $ ping volatile.debian.org > PING volatile.debian.org (130.89.149.227) 56(84) bytes of data. > > However, any other commands (Iinks, wget, apt-get, scp, ssh) can't > seem to resolve DNS: > > W: Failed to fetch > http://volatile.debian.org/debian-volatile/dists/lenny/volatile/non-free/i18n/Translation-en_CA.bz2 > Could not resolve 'volatile.debian.org' > > W: Failed to fetch > http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian/dists/lenny/Release.gpg > Could not resolve 'download.virtualbox.org' > > Anyone know what might be up with this? proxy configured somewhere? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 22:59:14 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:59:14 +0000 Subject: NFS alternatives? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280911101250t369c6a7cu24f1290024a7eb9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20027.72868.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <3a97ef0911101009v614bc1ccm699b392ebd14363d@mail.gmail.com> <4AF9CB37.9040807@moores.ca> <1f13df280911101250t369c6a7cu24f1290024a7eb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091110225914.GQ15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 03:50:56PM -0500, Giles Orr wrote: > All of that sounds marvelous. Is it actually happening? According to > this - http://nfs.sourceforge.net/ - 2.6.x kernels support nfsv4. But > is encryption implemented? Is it automatic if both client and server > support v4? Has anyone used this and/or seen it in action? I used to > use NFS a lot, but its relative insecurity and clear-text transmission > put me off. I have less use for it now, but I'm still very > interested. Thanks. Just be aware that NFSv4 is nothing like NFS (being v2 and v3). It is NFS in name only. No compatibility, very very different setup, very different requirements (kerberos and similar kind of stuff it seems). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 23:00:19 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:00:19 +0000 Subject: Odd failure last night, anyone else? In-Reply-To: <4AF9D9F0.5050509-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF9D9F0.5050509@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20091110230019.GR15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 04:24:00PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > This is a long shot, but last night, within the span of about four or > five hours, I had four independent systems fail in one form or another. > Did anyone else have any failures last night? > > On the first, the keyboard totally freaked out and wasn't fixed by a > reboot. It's still messed > > On the second, the wireless dropped and wouldn't come back on until the > machine was powered off. > > On the third, the network switch locked up and four of the eight > machines on the network went down. One was frozen so hard it needed a > cold boot. The other three's interfaces wouldn't get an IP. Even > manually assigning IPs didn't help and all needed to be power cycled > before they'd pick up IPs again. > > In the forth case, a Xen server kernel panic'ed and rebooted. > > This all happened between about midnight and 4am. Anyone else have any > problems around that time? These four machines are all independent and > half were in Oakville and half were in Toronto. > > Solar flare? Gremlins? Dumb luck? My wife's ipod shuffle died (it went pop and was dead). Fortunately she has a small pile of spares to move onto. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 23:01:00 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:01:00 +0000 Subject: Odd failure last night, anyone else? In-Reply-To: <4AF9E817.6040504-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF9D9F0.5050509@alteeve.com> <4AF9E817.6040504@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20091110230100.GS15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 05:24:23PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > At home, in Oakville, the machine with the keyboard issue is on a 1300VA > UPS. My laptop (the wireless one) is on a 700VA UPS. In Toronto, all > servers are on a huge APC UPS. Also, there are many, many other machines > on the same mains in Toronto and nothing else acted up. The Xen machine > and the network are in different racks and connected only by a couple > switches... Many other systems are closer. > > A power event did cross my mind, but I don't think so. I'm guessing it > was just "one of those nights" and that was that. Were you anywhere near the machines at the time? :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 23:08:36 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:08:36 -0500 Subject: Odd failure last night, anyone else? In-Reply-To: <20091110230100.GS15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF9D9F0.5050509@alteeve.com> <4AF9E817.6040504@alteeve.com> <20091110230100.GS15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4AF9F274.4010704@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 05:24:23PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> At home, in Oakville, the machine with the keyboard issue is on a 1300VA >> UPS. My laptop (the wireless one) is on a 700VA UPS. In Toronto, all >> servers are on a huge APC UPS. Also, there are many, many other machines >> on the same mains in Toronto and nothing else acted up. The Xen machine >> and the network are in different racks and connected only by a couple >> switches... Many other systems are closer. >> >> A power event did cross my mind, but I don't think so. I'm guessing it >> was just "one of those nights" and that was that. > > Were you anywhere near the machines at the time? :) > With my Aura? I could be in China and still be "too close". I swear, I could make a mint as a debugger. All I'd need to do is grab a book and sit down in the middle of a building and anything that could fail would. lol Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 10 23:23:37 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:23:37 -0500 Subject: Odd failure last night, anyone else? In-Reply-To: <20091110230019.GR15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF9D9F0.5050509@alteeve.com> <20091110230019.GR15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20091110232337.GA32694@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:00:19PM +0000, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Solar flare? Gremlins? Dumb luck? Perhaps - I had HAL die on me, and when I restarted X I had no keyboard and mouse - a remote-triggered power cycle fixed it, but it was a weird problem. >My wife's ipod shuffle died (it went pop and was dead). Fortunately she >has a small pile of spares to move onto. Isn't that a pile of small spares? :-) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 00:06:21 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:06:21 +0000 Subject: Odd failure last night, anyone else? In-Reply-To: <4AF9F274.4010704-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF9D9F0.5050509@alteeve.com> <4AF9E817.6040504@alteeve.com> <20091110230100.GS15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4AF9F274.4010704@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20091111000621.GT15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 06:08:36PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > With my Aura? I could be in China and still be "too close". I swear, I > could make a mint as a debugger. All I'd need to do is grab a book and > sit down in the middle of a building and anything that could fail would. > lol I have had many cases of various windows machines that would stop misbehaving if I got near them. Not sure why that would be... :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 00:27:44 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:27:44 -0500 Subject: Odd failure last night, anyone else? In-Reply-To: <4AF9E817.6040504-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AF9D9F0.5050509@alteeve.com> <4AF9E817.6040504@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4AFA0500.3090504@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > > A power event did cross my mind, but I don't think so. I'm guessing it > was just "one of those nights" and that was that. > Did you remember to make the appropriate live sacrifices to the computer gods? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 02:46:38 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:46:38 -0500 Subject: Recommended fonts for X on 11.6" netbook? Message-ID: <20091111024638.GA26317@waltdnes.org> I got a basic X going with TWM on my netbook. Fluxbox blows up because a basic xorg-server install doesn't install any fonts. I have a ton of fonts to choose for downloading from Gentoo's repository. Any comments on Adobe, Bitstream, B&H, Lucida, etc? I'm the old-fashioned type who prefers monospaced serif, e.g. Courier New. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 03:19:13 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:19:13 -0500 Subject: Recommended fonts for X on 11.6" netbook? In-Reply-To: <20091111024638.GA26317-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091111024638.GA26317@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4AFA2D31.2070806@alteeve.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > I got a basic X going with TWM on my netbook. Fluxbox blows up > because a basic xorg-server install doesn't install any fonts. I have a > ton of fonts to choose for downloading from Gentoo's repository. Any > comments on Adobe, Bitstream, B&H, Lucida, etc? I'm the old-fashioned > type who prefers monospaced serif, e.g. Courier New. > I've taken a liking to DejaVu Sans and DejaVu Sans Mono. Looks fine down to 7pt. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 13:14:21 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:14:21 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [u-u] room change Re: Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 11 Nov 2009 In-Reply-To: <20091109150413.E616C2E4091-dPLNzBR6HcWh953JjO4yc/Z8FUJU4vz8@public.gmane.org> References: <20091109150413.E616C2E4091@zeus.dgp.toronto.edu> Message-ID: For those interested in this month's Unix Unanimous meeting... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Alan J Rosenthal Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:04:13 -0500 Subject: [u-u] room change Re: Unix Unanimous meeting - Wed 11 Nov 2009 To: u-u-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org hi folks, sorry about this but we've been bumped. Basically, the room bookings people made a mistake. One which is potentially interesting to geeks; I'll tell all on Wednesday. We're now in BA 2135, which is a similar room with the curved desk rows. This is on the second floor, fairly close to being directly above the room we've been in the last two months. When you enter the building from the main St George Street entrance, you can take the upward-bound stairs immediately on your right. Other than that, I imagine you can figure it out. If we have rooms like BA 2139 and BA B026, we won't usually be in danger of being bumped -- this month's situation is unique. If we go back to 5256, we'll always be in danger of being bumped, from now on, but I think it's probably worth it. Let's talk about it on Wednesday. In December we're in BA B026. (Unless Wednesday's discussion says that we'd rather stay in 2139 -- it looks like that's available on the December date) regards, _______________________________________________ u-u mailing list u-u-sb41XHKw7bdvuSlQZN9BUtrUbErFZevf at public.gmane.org https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 18:38:41 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:38:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: ZAPiT game console Message-ID: TechDirect will have a ZAPIT GAME WAVE CONSOLE WITH DVD PLAYER for $39.99 starting Saturday. See the lower right of: http://techdirectcanada.ca/flyer/ So I wondered what this thing is. - it seems to be sold in christian bookstores in Ontario http://playgamewave.com/_bin/whereToBuy/Ontario.cfm - it seems to run "family oriented games" - the company seems to have had a near-death experience and has ported its games to the Blackberry and iPhone Not very interesting. But is it hackable? I don't know, but I found an interesting article about the design of it: http://www.techonline.com/product/underthehood/197802222 They seem to have written their games in the scripting language Lua. That probably helped to make them somewhat portable. The Mediamatics chip at the core of this thing is no longer supported by National Semiconductor. I'm not going to try hacking this. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 19:51:53 2009 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:51:53 -0500 Subject: M$ Patents sudo Message-ID: <4AFB15D9.3020509@golden.net> This should be a late April Fools joke from the USPTO. As someone points out "Suedo" me please. I wonder when they will patent the on button? http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111094923390 John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 20:01:28 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:01:28 -0500 Subject: ZAPiT game console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0911111201s17204c4fq1a01c4a9c47f42ef@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 1:38 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > TechDirect will have a ZAPIT GAME WAVE CONSOLE WITH DVD PLAYER for > $39.99 starting Saturday. ?See the lower right of: > ?http://techdirectcanada.ca/flyer/ I saw this in 24Hours today and what intrigued me was the use of the *Google Wave* logo in the advertisement. After looking around on the ZAPiT site and blog and techonline article, I haven't come across anything connecting the two products... -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 Member of the Pirate Party of Canada http://www.pirateparty.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 20:01:42 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:01:42 -0500 Subject: M$ Patents sudo In-Reply-To: <4AFB15D9.3020509-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFB15D9.3020509@golden.net> Message-ID: <4AFB1826.9000503@utoronto.ca> John Myshrall wrote: > This should be a late April Fools joke from the USPTO. As someone points > out "Suedo" me please. I wonder when they will patent the on button? > > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111094923390 IBM already has a patent for check boxes: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=7,278,116 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 20:22:59 2009 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:22:59 -0500 Subject: M$ Patents sudo In-Reply-To: <4AFB1826.9000503-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFB15D9.3020509@golden.net> <4AFB1826.9000503@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4AFB1D23.6020702@golden.net> Jamon Camisso wrote: > John Myshrall wrote: >> This should be a late April Fools joke from the USPTO. As someone >> points out "Suedo" me please. I wonder when they will patent the on >> button? >> >> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111094923390 > > IBM already has a patent for check boxes: > http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=7,278,116 > > Jamon Well that one up's me. I heard they also have a patent for who goes to the bathroom as well. I thought the patent peer review would start catching this type of scat. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 20:40:18 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:40:18 -0500 Subject: Recommended fonts for X on 11.6" netbook? In-Reply-To: <4AFA2D31.2070806-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20091111024638.GA26317@waltdnes.org> <4AFA2D31.2070806@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280911111240y6b024534he0ac556954f2b01a@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/10 Madison Kelly : > Walter Dnes wrote: >> ?I got a basic X going with TWM on my netbook. ?Fluxbox blows up >> because a basic xorg-server install doesn't install any fonts. ?I have a >> ton of fonts to choose for downloading from Gentoo's repository. ?Any >> comments on Adobe, Bitstream, B&H, Lucida, etc? ?I'm the old-fashioned >> type who prefers monospaced serif, e.g. Courier New. > > I've taken a liking to DejaVu Sans and DejaVu Sans Mono. Looks fine down to > 7pt. I'm a fan of Terminus. Highly readable in xterms, or on the console. It's monospace. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 21:37:09 2009 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:37:09 -0500 Subject: Recommended fonts for X on 11.6" netbook? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280911111240y6b024534he0ac556954f2b01a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091111024638.GA26317@waltdnes.org> <4AFA2D31.2070806@alteeve.com> <1f13df280911111240y6b024534he0ac556954f2b01a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AFB2E85.6010803@teksavvy.com> Bitstream Vera Sans Mono. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 22:01:18 2009 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:01:18 -0800 Subject: Recommended fonts for X on 11.6" netbook? In-Reply-To: <4AFB2E85.6010803-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20091111024638.GA26317@waltdnes.org> <4AFA2D31.2070806@alteeve.com> <1f13df280911111240y6b024534he0ac556954f2b01a@mail.gmail.com> <4AFB2E85.6010803@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <712ca2da0911111401v765a5170s34fb49568cba414a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Glen Strom wrote: > Bitstream Vera Sans Mono. > Is there any significant difference between DejaVu and Bitstream Vera fonts other than added unicode support? Personally I switch between Terminus 8pt and DejaVu Sans Mono 8pt/9pt depending on if I feel like anti-aliasing or not. I've experienced problems with DejaVu Sans Mono in gvim at 8pt (for example, the top of 'd' gets cut off be the letter after it when it's italic) but more recent updates to something have fixed it (though I still have to deal with it when running gvim off of the work servers). Proggy and Neep fonts are suggested elsewhere (and by personal friends), but I don't personally use them. Apple's Monaco font is good too, but the TTF version for Linux I've found *only* looks good at 9pt. I'd also suggest installing the Microsoft core fonts just to make web browsing more pleasant (which I assume you plan to do on your netbook). -- Brandon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 22:05:30 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:05:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: M$ Patents sudo In-Reply-To: <4AFB1826.9000503-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFB15D9.3020509@golden.net> <4AFB1826.9000503@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: | From: Jamon Camisso | John Myshrall wrote: | > This should be a late April Fools joke from the USPTO. As someone points out | > "Suedo" me please. I wonder when they will patent the on button? | > | > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111094923390 | | IBM already has a patent for check boxes: | http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=7,278,116 I find patents hard to read. Neither of these patents seem to be for exactly what the critics claim. Not that I like these patents. The MS one seems to ask about raising priviledge when the current level won't work for a requested operation. sudo does not do that. Lots of other things do. The check box patent seems to be about some way of flipping the state of some collection of clickboxes with one command. I don't quite get how. Why do all groklaw articles have "OT - Off Topic thread starts here"? Isn't there a better place to put such things? The top posting in OT for the sudo patent article is a pointer to this complaint about Ubuntu 9.10: http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7600/1.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 11 23:03:00 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:03:00 -0500 Subject: Google's got a new language... Go... Message-ID: Google's language... http://golang.org/ Note that two of the creators are Ken Thompson and Rob Pike... http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html It seems to have some "Plan 9" flavouring to it. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Charles de Gaulle - "The better I get to know men, the more I find myself loving dogs." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/charles_de_gaulle.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 03:26:00 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:26:00 -0500 Subject: Google's got a new language... Go... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AFB8048.6010308@gmail.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > Google's language... > http://golang.org/ > > Note that two of the creators are Ken Thompson and Rob Pike... > > http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html > > It seems to have some "Plan 9" flavouring to it. > DANG! I just finished learning Ruby.. this one will be interesting to watch, the compile time they show seems to indicate it's fast? Now if it's a script like language & runs like a native compiled language, this may change the future of how website are coded? "GO" web scripting??? However being a C++ developer I can say IMHO it's got the ugliness of C/C++ / Perl bastardized like syntax ever! I mean WFT? (code except from tutorial) 28 if !*omitNewline { 29 s += Newline 30 } It's not Ruby, concise, easy, beautiful, powerful & fun! Let's not forget Object-Oriented. I hate to say this, but I am hoping "what happens in google, stays in google", hope they eat their own dog food, this is not fit for consumption. Makes me want to gag, when they claim it's a fun language? -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 04:12:19 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:12:19 -0500 Subject: Google's got a new language... Go... In-Reply-To: <4AFB8048.6010308-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFB8048.6010308@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: >> >> Google's language... >> http://golang.org/ >> >> Note that two of the creators are Ken Thompson and Rob Pike... >> >> http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html >> >> It seems to have some "Plan 9" flavouring to it. >> > DANG! I just finished learning Ruby.. this one will be interesting to watch, > the compile time they show seems to indicate it's fast? > > > Now if it's a script like language & runs like a native compiled language, > this may change the future of how website are coded? "GO" web scripting??? No, that misunderstands the point of "Go." Go is NOT a "scripting language" - it is intended to be a *systems programming* language, in the vein of: - C - Modula-2 - BLISS - Alef - Limbo Seeing as how the implementers are the same people that created Alef and Limbo, it should be no surprise that the concurrency model is similar to Hoare's CSP. > However being a C++ developer I can say IMHO it's got the ugliness of C/C++ > / Perl bastardized like syntax ever! > > I mean WFT? (code except from tutorial) > > 28 ? ? ? ?if !*omitNewline { > 29 ? ? ? ? ? ?s += Newline > 30 ? ? ? ?} > > It's not Ruby, concise, easy, beautiful, powerful & fun! Let's not forget > Object-Oriented. I hate to say this, but I am hoping "what happens in > google, stays in google", hope they eat their own dog food, this is not fit > for consumption. Makes me want to gag, when they claim it's a fun language? I couldn't care less that it's not "abjectly object oriented." Evidence seems to be growing that that's a design "dead end," encouraging both details for the sake of details and preventing use of intelligent approaches to concurrency. It seems to me like it's got something of an admixture of: a) Icon-ish coroutines b) Objective C-ish "protocols" (aka interfaces) c) It *isn't* filled with the irritating "OO" thing of "oh, you need to define an ontology of the types you intend to use before you can do anything!" combined with "oh, everything needs to inherit from something!" d) Elimination of the irritations of cpp e) Like Modula-3, it has full fledged garbage collection built in by design, so you're not rewriting reference counters everywhere (ala C++) f) channels (which are "streams/queues", a synchronization mechanism particularly useful for communicating between coroutines) look MIGHTY interesting, and were a Limbo thing One of the claims is that the design of the language makes dependancy management easy. That's a mighty interesting claim; it's not self-evident how this is made so. Keep in mind: The people that designed this are the same people that originally designed Unix. I trust their sense of "taste" quite a bit. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Samuel Goldwyn - "I'm willing to admit that I may not always be right, but I am never wrong." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/samuel_goldwyn.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 05:34:16 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:34:16 -0500 Subject: Google's got a new language... Go... In-Reply-To: References: <4AFB8048.6010308@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AFB9E58.3080008@gmail.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Christopher Browne wrote: >>> Google's language... >>> http://golang.org/ >>> >>> Note that two of the creators are Ken Thompson and Rob Pike... >>> >>> http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html >>> >>> It seems to have some "Plan 9" flavouring to it. >>> >> DANG! I just finished learning Ruby.. this one will be interesting to watch, >> the compile time they show seems to indicate it's fast? >> >> >> Now if it's a script like language & runs like a native compiled language, >> this may change the future of how website are coded? "GO" web scripting??? > > No, that misunderstands the point of "Go." > > Go is NOT a "scripting language" - it is intended to be a *systems what was I thinking? I read "It feels like a dynamic language but has the speed and safety of a static language. It's a joy to use." For some reason dynamic language translated into scripting language, I was thinking meta-dynamic programming like in Ruby and Python and I put "Go" in the same camp of both script (like) and compiled lang. > Keep in mind: The people that designed this are the same people that > originally designed Unix. I trust their sense of "taste" quite a bit. The following s := sum(&[3]int{1,2,3}); looks like fun code, good times for sure =), unfortunately I don't see any UNIX beauty ;) .... My poor head hurts looking at this line! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 07:24:51 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:24:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: where Linus seems to be posting Message-ID: I noticed that Linus has a number of interesting postings here. Not really Linux related: http://www.realworldtech.com/forums/index.cfm?action=list&roomid=2 I found some other topics and postings interesting too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 11:37:17 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:37:17 -0300 Subject: Google's got a new language... Go... In-Reply-To: <4AFB9E58.3080008-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFB8048.6010308@gmail.com> <4AFB9E58.3080008@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1089a0320911120337m57860653w263718508fb97348@mail.gmail.com> I agree with Rajinder... The syntax isn't the most beautiful I have ever seen... It's fast.. we can all see this.. But the code isn't clear.. not clean as python or ruby for example. It has some increase and new concpts in memory allocation... it will be funny to test it. ;] --- - ??v? ? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ?ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ?^ ^ ? Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:34 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > Christopher Browne wrote: >> >> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>> >>> Christopher Browne wrote: >>>> >>>> Google's language... >>>> http://golang.org/ >>>> >>>> Note that two of the creators are Ken Thompson and Rob Pike... >>>> >>>> http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html >>>> >>>> It seems to have some "Plan 9" flavouring to it. >>>> >>> DANG! I just finished learning Ruby.. this one will be interesting to watch, >>> the compile time they show seems to indicate it's fast? >>> >>> >>> Now if it's a script like language & runs like a native compiled language, >>> this may change the future of how website are coded? "GO" web scripting??? >> >> No, that misunderstands the point of "Go." >> >> Go is NOT a "scripting language" - it is intended to be a *systems > > what was I thinking? I read > > "It feels like a dynamic language but has the speed and safety of a static language. It's a joy to use." > > For some reason dynamic language translated into scripting language, I was thinking meta-dynamic programming like in Ruby and Python and I put "Go" in the same camp of both script (like) and compiled lang. > > >> Keep in mind: The people that designed this are the same people that >> originally designed Unix. ?I trust their sense of "taste" quite a bit. > > The following > > s := sum(&[3]int{1,2,3}); > > looks like fun code, good times for sure =), unfortunately I don't see any UNIX beauty ;) .... My poor head hurts looking at this line! > > -- > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > http://DevMentor.org > > Do Good! - Share Freely > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 13:13:05 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:13:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Google's got a new language... Go... In-Reply-To: <1089a0320911120337m57860653w263718508fb97348-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFB8048.6010308@gmail.com> <4AFB9E58.3080008@gmail.com> <1089a0320911120337m57860653w263718508fb97348@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Nov 2009, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > The syntax isn't the most beautiful I have ever seen... It's fast.. we > can all see this.. But the code isn't clear.. not clean as python or Well a lot has been made about how is compiles code quickly. Does that imply that it compiles efficient code that will run quickly? It might even imply the opposite :) Having said that I think this is interesting and I'll be keeping an eye on it. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy http://www.practicalsysadmin.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 13:21:41 2009 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:21:41 -0500 Subject: Google's got a new language... Go... In-Reply-To: <4AFB9E58.3080008-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFB8048.6010308@gmail.com> <4AFB9E58.3080008@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AFC0BE5.1020108@the-wire.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: >> Keep in mind: The people that designed this are the same people that >> originally designed Unix. I trust their sense of "taste" quite a bit. > > The following > > s := sum(&[3]int{1,2,3}); > > looks like fun code, good times for sure =), unfortunately I don't see > any UNIX beauty ;) .... My poor head hurts looking at this line! Thats why I don't want to see type declarations in Python. Not so bad in Go, though, if it wants them. Looks like the C for that would be int sum (int* terms, size_t length); const int [3] temp = {1,2,3}; int s = sum (temp, 3); except that temp would be thrown away right after use, which C can't really do. That Go statement is packed pretty full. [3]int declares an array, {1,2,3} initializes it, & takes a reference, := declares a new variable with type and value from the RHS. Kind of cute, actually. Avoids C's cardinal sin of cutting the length of an array away from any references to it. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 14:39:41 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:39:41 -0500 Subject: Toner Replacement for ML2510 Message-ID: <4AFC1E2D.5020106@gmail.com> Hello Everyone, Just wondering if anyone has found a cheap source of toner refill for a Samsung ML2510? It's only slightly off topic because the printer has great Linux support :-) Google turns up lots of cheap options in the U.S. Everything in Canada seems to be triple the price and of dubious reputation. I'd rather step into a shop around Spadina and College. e.g. In the U.S., $24USD (+shipping) for 3x3000 page refills, and Amazon has a good return policy. In Canada, a random refill place, $45CAD for 1x3000 page cartridge http://www.inkspots-online.com/ I'm not big on the idea of a "remanufactured" cartridge because I've had bad experiences with them in the past. I don't know how many rounds they've been through or how they've been treated. The ideal, IMHO would be a few bottles of toner, an instruction sheet and *done*. I also prefer to do it myself :-) Thanks, -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 15:28:27 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:28:27 -0500 Subject: Any GoogleWave'res? In-Reply-To: References: <4AF8C2E0.5060408@gmail.com> Message-ID: Braithwaite Thank you for the invitation I got in yesterday William 2009/11/10 Myles Braithwaite : > I got a lot of invites left if anyone wants them just email me off list. > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar > wrote: >> Hi Rajonder, how you doing? >> >> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Alexandre Cavalcante Alencar >>> wrote: >>> >>> (reduced) >>> >>> > The Wave protocol is open and it's already a open source implementation >>> > floating around (developed by Google). You can get it from the Wave >>> > protocol >>> > web at http://www.waveprotocol.org/ >>> >>> Hi Alexandre, thanks for the link. I am thinking of how I can >>> incorporate GoogleWave like feature in my website that I am planing on >>> building. >>> >>> Do you have more info on Wave API docs or tutorials for developers? >>> >> >> The Google Wave APIs is available from here >> http://code.google.com/apis/wave/ >> >>> > In a near future, there will be complete suites to make our own Wave >>> > federated servers. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kind Regards, >>> Rajinder Yadav >>> >>> http://DevMentor.org >>> >>> Do Good! - Share Freely >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> >> >> -- >> Alexandre Alencar (Skarmeth) >> http://blog.alexandrealencar.net/ >> http://www.alexandrealencar.net/ >> ITIL, CSM, LPI, MCP-I, MCP >> >> > > > > -- > Myles Braithwaite > me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 15:29:50 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:29:50 -0500 Subject: Google's got a new language... Go... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1f13df280911120729v72d9d3cevef737015241047e3@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/11 Christopher Browne : > Google's language... > http://golang.org/ > > Note that two of the creators are Ken Thompson and Rob Pike... > > http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html > > It seems to have some "Plan 9" flavouring to it. I'm sure many of us read Slashdot, but I found this interesting: http://developers.slashdot.org/story/09/11/12/1256234/Google-Under-Fire-For-Calling-Their-Language-Go So did Google not do their research on the name? Did they choose to ignore the existing language of the same name? And will they have the decency to rename, with all the headache that implies immediately after a launch? -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 15:57:46 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:57:46 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? Message-ID: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> I recently got my first ever portable machine, and know virtually nothing about wifi, except that "WEP security" is an oxymoron, and WPA is supposed to be OK, and WPA2 the best. I need to put in some practice time, and generally screw around with it to become familiar with how it works. It would help to have an ethernet connection as well, in case I find I need to download driver updates. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 15:58:09 2009 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:58:09 +0000 Subject: Google's got a new language... Go... In-Reply-To: <1f13df280911120729v72d9d3cevef737015241047e3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: ,<1f13df280911120729v72d9d3cevef737015241047e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:29:50 -0500 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Google's got a new language... Go... > From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > 2009/11/11 Christopher Browne : > > Google's language... > > http://golang.org/ > > > > Note that two of the creators are Ken Thompson and Rob Pike... > > > > http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html > > > > It seems to have some "Plan 9" flavouring to it. > > I'm sure many of us read Slashdot, but I found this interesting: > > http://developers.slashdot.org/story/09/11/12/1256234/Google-Under-Fire-For-Calling-Their-Language-Go > > So did Google not do their research on the name? Did they choose to > ignore the existing language of the same name? And will they have the > decency to rename, with all the headache that implies immediately > after a launch? > > -- > Giles I'm sure their first thought was to name it Goo. Someone must have talked them out of it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 16:17:39 2009 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:17:39 -0500 Subject: Google's got a new language... Go... In-Reply-To: <1f13df280911120729v72d9d3cevef737015241047e3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280911120729v72d9d3cevef737015241047e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1258042659.3687.21.camel@cougar-hardy> On Thu, 2009-11-12 at 10:29 -0500, Giles Orr wrote: > 2009/11/11 Christopher Browne : > So did Google not do their research on the name? Did they choose to > ignore the existing language of the same name? And will they have the > decency to rename, with all the headache that implies immediately > after a launch? > I just did some research for them: "go" gets about 431,000,000 ghits. For comparison, pick a programming languaged named with something not a common word: "gcc" gets about 18,800,000 ghits, and it has been out in public for more than a couple of days. Still, they could have chosen worse: much of my work is on a system called (among many other names) "i", and that gets about 8,030,000,000 ghits. Sigh! Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 16:19:39 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:19:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <20091112155746.GB956-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <762995.6152.qm@web88107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Walter Dnes wrote: > ? I recently got my first ever > portable machine, and know virtually > nothing about wifi, except that "WEP security" is an > oxymoron, and WPA > is supposed to be OK, and WPA2 the best.? I need to > put in some practice > time, and generally screw around with it to become familiar > with how it > works.? It would help to have an ethernet connection > as well, in case I > find I need to download driver updates. Do you have a router with WiFi? Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 16:37:15 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:37:15 -0300 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <762995.6152.qm-xhL2RQCx0ACB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <762995.6152.qm@web88107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1089a0320911120837k2eaf44fft5457e7dd8046f1d8@mail.gmail.com> Well.. What's your OS? Have any wifi software like wicd, networkmanager, etc.. ? Is your machine already recognizing your wireless card? Try to run "ifconfig -a" to check if you got something like ath0, wlan0... something different from eth0 or lo. If yes, you probably already got your wireless card recognized and just need to check if the module is running ok. You can run for example the following command to search for a wifi connection available around you: # iwlist wlan0 scanning Supposing that your wireless card is called wlan0. Check if you have any answer like... [kalib at tuxcaverna ~]$ sudo iwlist wlan0 scanning wlan0 Scan completed : Cell 01 - Address: 00:09:5B:EB:1B:C2 Channel:1 Frequency:2.412 GHz (Channel 1) Quality=44/70 Signal level=-66 dBm Encryption key:on ESSID:"NeuronetZvovo" Bit Rates:1 Mb/s; 2 Mb/s; 5.5 Mb/s; 11 Mb/s; 6 Mb/s 12 Mb/s; 24 Mb/s; 36 Mb/s Mode:Master Extra:tsf=000000abc4a70cf5 Extra: Last beacon: 893ms ago IE: Unknown: 000D4E6575726F6E65745A766F766F IE: Unknown: 010882848B960C183048 IE: Unknown: 030101 IE: WPA Version 1 Group Cipher : TKIP Pairwise Ciphers (1) : TKIP Authentication Suites (1) : PSK IE: Unknown: DD0900037F01010006FF7F If yes, you probably got your wireless card working fine. If you wanna test it for sure, you can find some place with free wifi like pubs, restaurants, schools, etc... 2 cents... --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Stephen wrote: > --- On Thu, 11/12/09, Walter Dnes wrote: > >> ? I recently got my first ever >> portable machine, and know virtually >> nothing about wifi, except that "WEP security" is an >> oxymoron, and WPA >> is supposed to be OK, and WPA2 the best.? I need to >> put in some practice >> time, and generally screw around with it to become familiar >> with how it >> works.? It would help to have an ethernet connection >> as well, in case I >> find I need to download driver updates. > > Do you have a router with WiFi? > > Stephen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 16:52:35 2009 From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen Thornton) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:52:35 -0500 Subject: Toner Replacement for ML2510 In-Reply-To: <4AFC1E2D.5020106-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFC1E2D.5020106@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1258044755.22854.13.camel@bliss.ss.org> http://www.123inkcartridges.ca Try these guys, Mike. We have purchased online from them for various machines. On Thu, 2009-11-12 at 09:39 -0500, Mike Kallies wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > Just wondering if anyone has found a cheap source of toner refill for a > Samsung ML2510? It's only slightly off topic because the printer > has great Linux support :-) > > Google turns up lots of cheap options in the U.S. Everything in Canada > seems to be triple the price and of dubious reputation. I'd rather step > into a shop around Spadina and College. > > e.g. > > In the U.S., $24USD (+shipping) for 3x3000 page refills, and Amazon has > a good return policy. > > > In Canada, a random refill place, $45CAD for 1x3000 page cartridge > http://www.inkspots-online.com/ > > I'm not big on the idea of a "remanufactured" cartridge because I've had > bad experiences with them in the past. I don't know how many rounds > they've been through or how they've been treated. > > The ideal, IMHO would be a few bottles of toner, an instruction sheet > and *done*. I also prefer to do it myself :-) > > Thanks, > > -Mike > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 16:53:21 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:53:21 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <20091112155746.GB956-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4AFC3D81.6080403@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > I recently got my first ever portable machine, and know virtually > nothing about wifi, except that "WEP security" is an oxymoron, and WPA > is supposed to be OK, and WPA2 the best. I need to put in some practice > time, and generally screw around with it to become familiar with how it > works. It would help to have an ethernet connection as well, in case I > find I need to download driver updates. > > You can test it almost anywhere there's WiFi, such as Starbucks, Second Cup etc. If WiFi is working, you should at least be able to get to the login screen, without having to pay anything. You'll want to use WPA2, which is the most secure available for home users. You can be sure public WiFi will not use encryption. Given the low cost of WiFi "routers", is there any reason why you don't buy one? That way you have complete control over what you're doing, as you experiment. Get it going without encryption, then add WPA2. Also, you can get a random string of 63 characters for the WPA key from: https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 17:10:37 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:10:37 -0500 Subject: Google's got a new language... Go... In-Reply-To: <1f13df280911120729v72d9d3cevef737015241047e3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280911120729v72d9d3cevef737015241047e3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570911120910ifffa270v26587264b513165b@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > I'm sure many of us read Slashdot, but I found this interesting: > > http://developers.slashdot.org/story/09/11/12/1256234/Google-Under-Fire-For-Calling-Their-Language-Go > > So did Google not do their research on the name? ?Did they choose to > ignore the existing language of the same name? ?And will they have the > decency to rename, with all the headache that implies immediately > after a launch? > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- I was just going to mention that there was already a language called Go!, but you beat me to it; I do hope Google decides to rename their language, as it would be the proper & decent for them to do. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 17:26:57 2009 From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:26:57 -0300 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <4AFC3D81.6080403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <4AFC3D81.6080403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1089a0320911120926j6f7a9d0ci9336fb7bfe99d9db@mail.gmail.com> Like James said, WPA2 would be the most security.. But I always like to increase it using MAC filter. In this case you can specify in the router which MAC address are allowed to join the network and have access. --- - ?v? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib - /(_)\ ITIL V3 Foundation Certified | Certified Scrum Master - ^ ^ Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148 - GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org - KDE Brasil Member - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:53 PM, James Knott wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: >> >> ? I recently got my first ever portable machine, and know virtually >> nothing about wifi, except that "WEP security" is an oxymoron, and WPA >> is supposed to be OK, and WPA2 the best. ?I need to put in some practice >> time, and generally screw around with it to become familiar with how it >> works. ?It would help to have an ethernet connection as well, in case I >> find I need to download driver updates. >> >> > > You can test it almost anywhere there's WiFi, such as Starbucks, Second Cup > etc. ?If WiFi is working, you should at least be able to get to the login > screen, without having to pay anything. ?You'll want to use WPA2, which is > the most secure available for home users. ?You can be sure public WiFi will > not use encryption. > > Given the low cost of WiFi "routers", is there any reason why you don't buy > one? ?That way you have complete control over what you're doing, as you > experiment. ?Get it going without encryption, then add WPA2. ?Also, you can > get a random string of 63 characters for the WPA key from: > https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 17:36:18 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:36:18 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <1089a0320911120926j6f7a9d0ci9336fb7bfe99d9db-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <4AFC3D81.6080403@rogers.com> <1089a0320911120926j6f7a9d0ci9336fb7bfe99d9db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AFC4792.4080401@rogers.com> Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Like James said, WPA2 would be the most security.. > But I always like to increase it using MAC filter. > In this case you can specify in the router which MAC address are > allowed to join the network and have access. > MAC filtering is even more useless than WEP. Your MAC is visible on every transmission and easily intercepted with utilities such as Kismet. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 17:38:22 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:38:22 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <1089a0320911120926j6f7a9d0ci9336fb7bfe99d9db-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <4AFC3D81.6080403@rogers.com> <1089a0320911120926j6f7a9d0ci9336fb7bfe99d9db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AFC480E.5010604@utoronto.ca> Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Like James said, WPA2 would be the most security.. > But I always like to increase it using MAC filter. > In this case you can specify in the router which MAC address are > allowed to join the network and have access. If someone is trying to break into your WPA2 network, assume they know how to spoof a mac address, e.g. ifconfig wlan0 hw ether 00:11:22:33:44:55 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 17:44:10 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:44:10 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <20091112155746.GB956-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4AFC496A.2090503@alteeve.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > I recently got my first ever portable machine, and know virtually > nothing about wifi, except that "WEP security" is an oxymoron, and WPA > is supposed to be OK, and WPA2 the best. I need to put in some practice > time, and generally screw around with it to become familiar with how it > works. It would help to have an ethernet connection as well, in case I > find I need to download driver updates. Timothy's has free wifi at almost all of their locations. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 17:44:28 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:44:28 -0500 Subject: Linux-based Windows antivirus tools... In-Reply-To: <4AF07CB3.1080903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103172810.GA29840@yam.witteman.ca> <4AF07CB3.1080903@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20091112174428.GA27564@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 01:55:47PM -0500, John McGregor wrote: >William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >>One, and probably more of the Windows machines I am responsible for has >>become infected with at least one virus/trojan. >> >>Is there a boot cd I can burn from an clean Linux box that I can use to >>clean this/these machines? >Any of these should do the trick. I don't know whether any of them >are based on linux, but you certainly should be able to burn the ISOs >using a linux box. > >http://www.techmixer.com/free-bootable-antivirus-rescue-cds-download-list/ This list is quite helpful - another list member suggested Trinity, and it seems to have worked very well: http://trinityhome.org/Home/index.php?wpid=1&front_id=12 I didn't want to format all of the machines, because they are Dells, and the "OS" disc that they come with does not help you reinstall the OS, and I don't have gobs of licenses for Windows. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 17:48:13 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:48:13 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <4AFC496A.2090503-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <4AFC496A.2090503@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570911120948n686e07c0lc43dd2469a8ae1ea@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Timothy's has free wifi at almost all of their locations. > > Madi > > -- TPL has WiFi at most of their branches. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 17:52:01 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:52:01 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570911120948n686e07c0lc43dd2469a8ae1ea-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <4AFC496A.2090503@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570911120948n686e07c0lc43dd2469a8ae1ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AFC4B41.1080807@rogers.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Timothy's has free wifi at almost all of their locations. >> >> Madi >> >> -- >> > > TPL has WiFi at most of their branches. > > > As do the Mississauga library & community centres. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 17:54:31 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:54:31 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <4AFC4B41.1080807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <4AFC496A.2090503@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570911120948n686e07c0lc43dd2469a8ae1ea@mail.gmail.com> <4AFC4B41.1080807@rogers.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570911120954i6c134d22v662de69d9346782d@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:52 PM, James Knott wrote: > As do the Mississauga library & community centres. > > -- I wouldn't know about that, because I've never been to a library or community centre in Mississauga. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 18:00:59 2009 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:00:59 -0500 Subject: Toner Replacement for ML2510 In-Reply-To: <1258044755.22854.13.camel-Cc8bTzyuDCFg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFC1E2D.5020106@gmail.com> <1258044755.22854.13.camel@bliss.ss.org> Message-ID: <90388adb08d0ce990769bbe1ec87fb18.squirrel@www.webmail.execulink.com> > On Thu, 2009-11-12 at 09:39 -0500, Mike Kallies wrote: >> Hello Everyone, >> >> Just wondering if anyone has found a cheap source of toner refill for a >> Samsung ML2510? It's only slightly off topic because the printer >> has great Linux support :-) >> >> Google turns up lots of cheap options in the U.S. Everything in Canada >> seems to be triple the price and of dubious reputation. I'd rather step >> into a shop around Spadina and College. >> >> e.g. >> >> In the U.S., $24USD (+shipping) for 3x3000 page refills, and Amazon has >> a good return policy. >> >> >> In Canada, a random refill place, $45CAD for 1x3000 page cartridge >> http://www.inkspots-online.com/ >> >> I'm not big on the idea of a "remanufactured" cartridge because I've had >> bad experiences with them in the past. I don't know how many rounds >> they've been through or how they've been treated. >> >> The ideal, IMHO would be a few bottles of toner, an instruction sheet >> and *done*. I also prefer to do it myself :-) >> >> Thanks, >> >> -Mike I've used these guys for a 2010 printer catridge. It works great. $34.50 for a 2510. https://www.etoner.ca/product_info.php?products_id=1741 John ---------------------------- Powered by Execulink Webmail http://www.execulink.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 18:09:59 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:09:59 -0500 Subject: Toner Replacement for ML2510 In-Reply-To: <90388adb08d0ce990769bbe1ec87fb18.squirrel-veW9BSAVxvPn6SmLWzi+C9sbwa4tyQxpAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFC1E2D.5020106@gmail.com> <1258044755.22854.13.camel@bliss.ss.org> <90388adb08d0ce990769bbe1ec87fb18.squirrel@www.webmail.execulink.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570911121009l7157ec56w51b98c085da1eb5@mail.gmail.com> This is slightly OT, but does anyone know where I can sell a Brother MFC-495cw printer, I do & don't have the space for it, of course it's still factory sealed in box. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 18:10:29 2009 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:10:29 -0800 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <1089a0320911120926j6f7a9d0ci9336fb7bfe99d9db-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <4AFC3D81.6080403@rogers.com> <1089a0320911120926j6f7a9d0ci9336fb7bfe99d9db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <712ca2da0911121010g4b8d0b26x7472eace2ff8f570@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Like James said, WPA2 would be the most security.. > But I always like to increase it using MAC filter. > In this case you can specify in the router which MAC address are > allowed to join the network and have access. If someone has already broken your WPA2, then gleaning the MAC address of someone using the network and spoofing it is a piece of cake. Anyone with enough skills to break WPA2 would be able to spoof a MAC address (or at least have some sort of script/app to do so if they are a script kiddie). On the other side of the token, WPA is fine. The only issue is that you'll want to use WPA-AES instead of WPA-TKIP (which is a choice made at the access point level, not at the client level). TKIP is the part that has shown weakness. Though you could just go with WPA2 if you don't want to be bothered with the choice. Another thing to keep in mind is that some devices that use wifi only support no encryption or WEP. IIRC, the NintendoDS is one of these devices, though they may have updated the firmware at some point to support WPA/WPA2. -- Brandon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 20:29:22 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:29:22 +0000 Subject: Toner Replacement for ML2510 In-Reply-To: <4AFC1E2D.5020106-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFC1E2D.5020106@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091112202922.GU15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 09:39:41AM -0500, Mike Kallies wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > Just wondering if anyone has found a cheap source of toner refill for a > Samsung ML2510? It's only slightly off topic because the printer > has great Linux support :-) > > Google turns up lots of cheap options in the U.S. Everything in Canada > seems to be triple the price and of dubious reputation. I'd rather step > into a shop around Spadina and College. > > e.g. > > In the U.S., $24USD (+shipping) for 3x3000 page refills, and Amazon has > a good return policy. > > > In Canada, a random refill place, $45CAD for 1x3000 page cartridge > http://www.inkspots-online.com/ > > I'm not big on the idea of a "remanufactured" cartridge because I've had > bad experiences with them in the past. I don't know how many rounds > they've been through or how they've been treated. > > The ideal, IMHO would be a few bottles of toner, an instruction sheet > and *done*. I also prefer to do it myself :-) Unfortunately the same problem you get with remanufactured would probably hit you. The rollers do sometimes need replacement so you can't just keep reusing a cartridge. A few uses sure, but not that many. It is also very very very messy. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 20:32:35 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:32:35 +0000 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <1089a0320911120926j6f7a9d0ci9336fb7bfe99d9db-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <4AFC3D81.6080403@rogers.com> <1089a0320911120926j6f7a9d0ci9336fb7bfe99d9db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091112203235.GV15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 02:26:57PM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote: > Like James said, WPA2 would be the most security.. > But I always like to increase it using MAC filter. > In this case you can specify in the router which MAC address are > allowed to join the network and have access. MAC address spoofing is pretty trivial, and really doesn't add much at all. If you can break the WPA2 encryption key, the MAC address hardly adds even 0.1% to the difficulty in getting access. It on the other hand is majorly annoying when you do want to connect a machine that you first have to go add the mac address to the stupid router before you can connect. So lots of annoyance for legitimate users, and hardly any annoyance to the cracker. Totally stupid waste of time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 20:34:26 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:34:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux-based Windows antivirus tools... In-Reply-To: <20091112174428.GA27564-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103172810.GA29840@yam.witteman.ca> <4AF07CB3.1080903@rogers.com> <20091112174428.GA27564@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: | From: William O'Higgins Witteman | On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 01:55:47PM -0500, John McGregor wrote: | >William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: | >>One, and probably more of the Windows machines I am responsible for has | >>become infected with at least one virus/trojan. | I didn't want to format all of the machines, because they are Dells, and | the "OS" disc that they come with does not help you reinstall the OS, | and I don't have gobs of licenses for Windows. You can never be sure that you've gotten rid of an infection. The safest response is to reinstall the system from scratch, wiping all the disks, including the boot sectors. (In theory, even that is not enough: the BIOS eeprom might have been corrupted. I've not heard of that actually happening.) How is it that Dell restore disks (if that is what they are) don't restore? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 20:35:00 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:35:00 +0000 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <712ca2da0911121010g4b8d0b26x7472eace2ff8f570-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <4AFC3D81.6080403@rogers.com> <1089a0320911120926j6f7a9d0ci9336fb7bfe99d9db@mail.gmail.com> <712ca2da0911121010g4b8d0b26x7472eace2ff8f570@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091112203500.GW15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:10:29AM -0800, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > If someone has already broken your WPA2, then gleaning the MAC address > of someone using the network and spoofing it is a piece of cake. > Anyone with enough skills to break WPA2 would be able to spoof a MAC > address (or at least have some sort of script/app to do so if they are > a script kiddie). > > On the other side of the token, WPA is fine. The only issue is that > you'll want to use WPA-AES instead of WPA-TKIP (which is a choice made > at the access point level, not at the client level). TKIP is the part > that has shown weakness. Though you could just go with WPA2 if you > don't want to be bothered with the choice. > > Another thing to keep in mind is that some devices that use wifi only > support no encryption or WEP. IIRC, the NintendoDS is one of these > devices, though they may have updated the firmware at some point to > support WPA/WPA2. The DS does not support WPA. The hardware is incapable of it. It never will. The DSi can do WPA for download games and browsing and such, but when playing DS games it is back to WEP (64 or 128bit) only. It also fails to do dhcp with many routers, but static IP seems to work fine then. That's why my DS only now has internet access with my new router that has a firewalled guest zone that I can run WEP128 on while using WPA2 for the stuff I care about. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 20:36:43 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:36:43 +0000 Subject: Linux-based Windows antivirus tools... In-Reply-To: References: <20091103172810.GA29840@yam.witteman.ca> <4AF07CB3.1080903@rogers.com> <20091112174428.GA27564@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20091112203643.GX15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 03:34:26PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > You can never be sure that you've gotten rid of an infection. The > safest response is to reinstall the system from scratch, wiping all > the disks, including the boot sectors. (In theory, even that is not > enough: the BIOS eeprom might have been corrupted. I've not heard of > that actually happening.) > > How is it that Dell restore disks (if that is what they are) don't > restore? Restoring to factury state often means factory partition table and software, even though that's not what you want if you also have dual boot setup on the machine. Rather obnoxious things those 'restore' discs are. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 20:37:19 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:37:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <4AFC3D81.6080403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <4AFC3D81.6080403@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | Also, you can | get a random string of 63 characters for the WPA key from: | https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm Neat! A secret that is born shared with a stranger! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 20:38:43 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:38:43 +0000 Subject: Google's got a new language... Go... In-Reply-To: <1258042659.3687.21.camel@cougar-hardy> References: <1f13df280911120729v72d9d3cevef737015241047e3@mail.gmail.com> <1258042659.3687.21.camel@cougar-hardy> Message-ID: <20091112203843.GY15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:17:39AM -0500, Terrence Enger wrote: > I just did some research for them: "go" gets about 431,000,000 ghits. > For comparison, pick a programming languaged named with something not a > common word: "gcc" gets about 18,800,000 ghits, and it has been out in > public for more than a couple of days. > > Still, they could have chosen worse: much of my work is on a system > called (among many other names) "i", and that gets about 8,030,000,000 > ghits. Sigh! Yes. Note to anyone in marketing: If you type a new product name into google and get any real number of hits then customers won't be able to find your product on google and it will fail or at least be very difficult to deal with for your customers. So pick a new name that is unique. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 20:38:58 2009 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:38:58 -0800 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <20091112203235.GV15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <4AFC3D81.6080403@rogers.com> <1089a0320911120926j6f7a9d0ci9336fb7bfe99d9db@mail.gmail.com> <20091112203235.GV15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <712ca2da0911121238y2a216e9dp1aeff8938c9e5032@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > MAC address spoofing is pretty trivial, and really doesn't add much > at all. > > If you can break the WPA2 encryption key, the MAC address hardly adds > even 0.1% to the difficulty in getting access. ?It on the other hand is > majorly annoying when you do want to connect a machine that you first have > to go add the mac address to the stupid router before you can connect. > > So lots of annoyance for legitimate users, and hardly any annoyance to > the cracker. ?Totally stupid waste of time. It's useful for techno-illiterate people though. If you want to allow a neighbor or someone access to the network you can give them the password and add their MAC address. If they decide to be an ass to you, you can just ban their MAC rather than changing the password for everyone that is using the network. It's flimsy security to be sure, but it's also a lazy solution to a problem when you know that all of the people involved are don't know enough to overcome the hurdles that you're placing in front of them. -- Brandon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 20:41:06 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:41:06 +0000 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <712ca2da0911121238y2a216e9dp1aeff8938c9e5032-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <4AFC3D81.6080403@rogers.com> <1089a0320911120926j6f7a9d0ci9336fb7bfe99d9db@mail.gmail.com> <20091112203235.GV15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <712ca2da0911121238y2a216e9dp1aeff8938c9e5032@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091112204106.GZ15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:38:58PM -0800, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > It's useful for techno-illiterate people though. If you want to allow > a neighbor or someone access to the network you can give them the > password and add their MAC address. If they decide to be an ass to > you, you can just ban their MAC rather than changing the password for > everyone that is using the network. > > It's flimsy security to be sure, but it's also a lazy solution to a > problem when you know that all of the people involved are don't know > enough to overcome the hurdles that you're placing in front of them. Well if it was a list of mac addreses to ban rather than a list of those to permit then it would be better. It doesn't seem like that is the option though in most cases. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 20:44:31 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:44:31 +0000 Subject: Google's got a new language... Go... In-Reply-To: References: <4AFB8048.6010308@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091112204431.GA15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:12:19PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > I couldn't care less that it's not "abjectly object oriented." > > Evidence seems to be growing that that's a design "dead end," > encouraging both details for the sake of details and preventing use of > intelligent approaches to concurrency. > > It seems to me like it's got something of an admixture of: > a) Icon-ish coroutines > b) Objective C-ish "protocols" (aka interfaces) > c) It *isn't* filled with the irritating "OO" thing of "oh, you need > to define an ontology of the types you intend to use before you can do > anything!" combined with "oh, everything needs to inherit from > something!" > d) Elimination of the irritations of cpp > e) Like Modula-3, it has full fledged garbage collection built in by > design, so you're not rewriting reference counters everywhere (ala > C++) So why not use modula3 or maybe ocaml or something? Why invent something new, and especially something with syntax that is almost as ugly as perl. Perhaps uglier in fact. > f) channels (which are "streams/queues", a synchronization mechanism > particularly useful for communicating between coroutines) look MIGHTY > interesting, and were a Limbo thing > > One of the claims is that the design of the language makes dependancy > management easy. That's a mighty interesting claim; it's not > self-evident how this is made so. > > Keep in mind: The people that designed this are the same people that > originally designed Unix. I trust their sense of "taste" quite a bit. Ehm, well. Decent internal structure, not so nice an interface perhaps. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 20:59:46 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:59:46 -0500 Subject: Linux-based Windows antivirus tools... In-Reply-To: <20091112203643.GX15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20091103172810.GA29840@yam.witteman.ca> <4AF07CB3.1080903@rogers.com> <20091112174428.GA27564@yam.witteman.ca> <20091112203643.GX15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20091112205946.GA4039@yam.witteman.ca> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 08:36:43PM +0000, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 03:34:26PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> You can never be sure that you've gotten rid of an infection. The >> safest response is to reinstall the system from scratch, wiping all >> the disks, including the boot sectors. (In theory, even that is not >> enough: the BIOS eeprom might have been corrupted. I've not heard of >> that actually happening.) >> >> How is it that Dell restore disks (if that is what they are) don't >> restore? > >Restoring to factury state often means factory partition table and >software, even though that's not what you want if you also have dual >boot setup on the machine. > >Rather obnoxious things those 'restore' discs are. Even more obnoxious is that the collection that I have are not bootable. Yes, I am aware that I cannot certify that the machines I have are infection free, but they are not a) broadcasting on my network or b) infecting other machines, USB sticks, etc. It is, literally, close enough for government work. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 12 21:23:53 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:23:53 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <4AFC3D81.6080403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4AFC7CE9.7010304@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: James Knott > > | Also, you can > | get a random string of 63 characters for the WPA key from: > | https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm > > Neat! A secret that is born shared with a stranger! > Of course, that key is only useful to someone who's close to you. I don't imagine many people would know your location, snf are likely to "visit" you. Also, as they say, you can take bits & pieces of multiple keys or swap pieces around, to make sure it is secure. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 00:55:44 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:55:44 -0500 Subject: Skype on Linux Message-ID: <4AFCAE90.6000503@gmail.com> Is anyone using the skype beta for Linux? is there a better alternative for linux that will allow me to video chat with skype clients? -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 01:14:03 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:14:03 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <20091112155746.GB956-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20091112201403.125ad77e.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:57:46 -0500 "Walter Dnes" wrote: > I recently got my first ever portable machine, and know virtually > nothing about wifi, except that "WEP security" is an oxymoron, and WPA > is supposed to be OK, and WPA2 the best. I need to put in some practice > time, and generally screw around with it to become familiar with how it > works. It would help to have an ethernet connection as well, in case I > find I need to download driver updates. Walter, Second Cup offers a wireless connection. I am using one right now. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 02:49:26 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:49:26 -0500 Subject: Skype on Linux In-Reply-To: <4AFCAE90.6000503-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFCAE90.6000503@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AFCC936.1010107@alteeve.com> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Is anyone using the skype beta for Linux? is there a better alternative > for linux that will allow me to video chat with skype clients? > > I'm using the Skype 64bit deb from Skype's website on Ubuntu 9.10 and it works just fine with video. If you want to test it, I'm available at digital.mermaid. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 03:15:29 2009 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:15:29 -0500 Subject: Skype on Linux In-Reply-To: <4AFCC936.1010107-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFCAE90.6000503@gmail.com> <4AFCC936.1010107@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4AFCCF51.30504@ss.org> The latest Skype does work well, but If I understand the actual Question was is there an native linux/open source Client. The answer is actually No, Skype actually keeps the protocol proprietary. Even though that they take advantage for open source to deliver it (QT 4), they do it under the licenses and in ways that avoid exposing the code. I do recall a lawsuit at one point, but don't remember the details. On 11/12/2009 09:49 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Is anyone using the skype beta for Linux? is there a better >> alternative for linux that will allow me to video chat with skype >> clients? >> >> > > I'm using the Skype 64bit deb from Skype's website on Ubuntu 9.10 and > it works just fine with video. If you want to test it, I'm available > at digital.mermaid. > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 03:58:04 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:58:04 -0500 Subject: Skype on Linux In-Reply-To: <4AFCCF51.30504-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFCAE90.6000503@gmail.com> <4AFCC936.1010107@alteeve.com> <4AFCCF51.30504@ss.org> Message-ID: <4AFCD94C.5060805@gmail.com> Scott Sullivan wrote: > The latest Skype does work well, but If I understand the actual Question > was is there an native linux/open source Client. > > The answer is actually No, Skype actually keeps the protocol proprietary. Thanks Scott, I've got the Skype Ubuntu package downloaded on my laptop, just didn't get around to installing and testing. I actually got a skype account that allows me to make unlimited calls directly to phone so that's good to hear skype works well. > > Even though that they take advantage for open source to deliver it (QT > 4), they do it under the licenses and in ways that avoid exposing the > code. I do recall a lawsuit at one point, but don't remember the details. > > On 11/12/2009 09:49 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>> Is anyone using the skype beta for Linux? is there a better >>> alternative for linux that will allow me to video chat with skype >>> clients? >>> >>> >> >> I'm using the Skype 64bit deb from Skype's website on Ubuntu 9.10 and >> it works just fine with video. If you want to test it, I'm available >> at digital.mermaid. >> >> Madi >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 03:53:46 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:53:46 -0500 Subject: Skype on Linux In-Reply-To: <4AFCC936.1010107-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFCAE90.6000503@gmail.com> <4AFCC936.1010107@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4AFCD84A.406@gmail.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Is anyone using the skype beta for Linux? is there a better >> alternative for linux that will allow me to video chat with skype >> clients? >> >> > > I'm using the Skype 64bit deb from Skype's website on Ubuntu 9.10 and it > works just fine with video. If you want to test it, I'm available at > digital.mermaid. > > Madi Thanks Madi I will take your offer to video conference later next week or if I happen to catch you online before then. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 07:49:04 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 02:49:04 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <1089a0320911120837k2eaf44fft5457e7dd8046f1d8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <762995.6152.qm@web88107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1089a0320911120837k2eaf44fft5457e7dd8046f1d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091113074904.GA1757@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 01:37:15PM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote > Well.. What's your OS? Gentoo with Fluxbox WM. > Have any wifi software like wicd, networkmanager, etc.. ? Not when I wrote the email... maybe that's why I get... [aa1][root][/usr/src/linux] iwlist wlan0 scanning wlan0 Interface doesn't support scanning : Network is down [...later...] The Knoppix boot key does see 5 wireless networks in my building. I get 5 listings like your "NeuronetZvovo". That's surprising, since Knoppix is using the Ath5k driver and lspci -v says that my netbook has 03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR242x 802.11abg Wireless PCI Express Adapter (rev 01) Subsystem: Foxconn International, Inc. Device e00d If the Knoppix ethernet driver worked, I'd be very tempted to blow away Gentoo on the netbook, and do a hard-disk install of Knoppix. Under Gentoo, I emerged ath5k and networkmanager and got... [aa1][root][~] ln -s /etc/init.d/net.lo /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 [aa1][root][~] /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 start * Caching service dependencies ... * Starting wlan0 * Configuring wireless network for wlan0 * wlan0 does not support scanning * You either need to set a preferred_aps list in /etc/conf.d/wireless * preferred_aps=( "ESSID1" "ESSID2" ) * and set associate_order_wlan0="forcepreferred" * or set associate_order_wlan0="forcepreferredonly" * or hardcode the ESSID to "any" and let the driver find an Access Point * essid_wlan0="any" * or configure defaulting to Ad-Hoc when Managed fails * adhoc_essid_wlan0="WLAN" * or hardcode the ESSID against the interface (not recommended) * essid_wlan0="ESSID" * Failed to configure wireless for wlan0 Anybody have a working /etc/conf.d/wireless they're willing to share (minus your passwords, of course ). -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 11:01:31 2009 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 03:01:31 -0800 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <20091113074904.GA1757-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <762995.6152.qm@web88107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1089a0320911120837k2eaf44fft5457e7dd8046f1d8@mail.gmail.com> <20091113074904.GA1757@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <712ca2da0911130301y1e7b3dfv4235d9ccaf9b6e38@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 01:37:15PM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote >> Well.. What's your OS? > > ?Gentoo with Fluxbox WM. > >> Have any wifi software like wicd, networkmanager, etc.. ? > > ?Not when I wrote the email... maybe that's why I get... > > [aa1][root][/usr/src/linux] iwlist wlan0 scanning > wlan0 ? ? Interface doesn't support scanning : Network is down > > [...later...] > > ?The Knoppix boot key does see 5 wireless networks in my building. ?I > get 5 listings like your "NeuronetZvovo". ?That's surprising, since > Knoppix is using the Ath5k driver and lspci -v says that my netbook has > > 03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR242x 802.11abg Wireless PCI Express Adapter (rev 01) > ? ? ? ?Subsystem: Foxconn International, Inc. Device e00d > > ?If the Knoppix ethernet driver worked, I'd be very tempted to blow > away Gentoo on the netbook, and do a hard-disk install of Knoppix. > Under Gentoo, I emerged ath5k and networkmanager and got... > > [aa1][root][~] ln -s /etc/init.d/net.lo /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 > [aa1][root][~] /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 start > ?* Caching service dependencies ... > ?* Starting wlan0 > ?* ? Configuring wireless network for wlan0 > ?* ? wlan0 does not support scanning > ?* ? You either need to set a preferred_aps list in /etc/conf.d/wireless > ?* ? ? ?preferred_aps=( "ESSID1" "ESSID2" ) > ?* ? ? ?and set associate_order_wlan0="forcepreferred" > ?* ? ? ?or set associate_order_wlan0="forcepreferredonly" > ?* ? or hardcode the ESSID to "any" and let the driver find an Access Point > ?* ? ? ?essid_wlan0="any" > ?* ? or configure defaulting to Ad-Hoc when Managed fails > ?* ? ? ?adhoc_essid_wlan0="WLAN" > ?* ? or hardcode the ESSID against the interface (not recommended) > ?* ? ? ?essid_wlan0="ESSID" > ?* ? Failed to configure wireless for wlan0 > > ?Anybody have a working /etc/conf.d/wireless they're willing to share > (minus your passwords, of course ). > > > -- > Walter Dnes The MadWifi driver works best for me with my Atheros card: Atheros Communications Inc. AR5212 802.11abg NIC (rev 01) I have ath5k working under Ubuntu, but I've had the following issues: * When I come home from work and wake-up my laptop. I can see it connecting/disconnecting from my home WLAN 4 or 5 times before 'settling'. (I highly doubt this is due to outside interference since it *always* happens with the ath5k driver and I rarely get home at a regular time -- i.e. I doubt that I just happen to come home when someone is using a microwave every night) * Sometimes this connect/disconnect 'settling' period can be triggered by moving around in my living room (Note that the AP is in the *center* of the room, not 5 feet away from anywhere I might sit) * When connecting to my media center pc/server, I noticed these 'hangs' where ssh sessions would randomly become unresponsive for 5-10 seconds. These went away when I switched back to using MadWifi. * NetworkManager would routinely (sometimes 2 or 3 times in an hour) spam /var/log/syslog with similar looking messages to these: Disconnecting from network (my wlan) Connecting to network (null) Disconnecting from network (null) Connecting to network (my wlan) I never bothered to see if any of those 'null' connections matched up with the ssh unresponsiveness, but none of those showed up in any other way (nm-applet never showed a disconnect/reconnect, and web browsing didn't seem to slow down). I've seen people claim throughput differences between Ath5k and MadWifi (Ath5k being slower), but I never ran tests. I've also seen these problems blamed on a lack of a good algorithm in Ath5k for dealing with noise, but I don't buy that as an excuse for my issues (though it could be the issue with throughput). The only fault I can put on the MadWifi driver is that it's not 'suspend aware.' It will hose the wifi chip until a reboot if you try to s2ram and wake back up. This is easily remedied with: /etc/pm/config.d/madwifi: SUSPEND_MODULES="$SUSPEND_MODULES ath_pci" (Which on another note I have *no* clue why Ubuntu doesn't make a default... This has been an issue for *two* releases and I still have to do that on a fresh install -- though ath5k is now the default driver for Atheros chips in Ubuntu despite its faults) To continue an already long email... Since we're on the topic of wifi, if anyone here uses NetworkManager and has trouble associating with a network try rebooting with NetworkManager (NetworkManger the /etc/init.d service, not the interface nm-applet) disabled and using iwtools/kismet to connect to a network. I've had this issue at a few hotels before (both hotels had their wifi provided by the same company according to their info cards). For whatever reason when trying to join those networks, if NetworkManager so much as loaded *at all* I would have to reboot to get the network connection again (just shutting down NetworkManager was not enough). No clue why. Most time it could connect to the network, but DHCP would timeout with various error messages so I couldn't get an address (and NetworkManager drops the network association when DHCP fails). Could have been a poorly configured network needing some weird MTU settings or something. Could have been an issue with dhclient. Could have been an issue with NetworkManager. I was dual-booting at the time and I used some of network info I gleaned from Windows to try and set NetworkManager up with a static ip/dns/etc settings, but that didn't work. [Note: I didn't bother to try wicd at the time] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 14:57:00 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:57:00 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <20091112201403.125ad77e.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <20091112201403.125ad77e.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4AFD73BC.8050101@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:57:46 -0500 > "Walter Dnes" wrote: > > >> I recently got my first ever portable machine, and know virtually >> nothing about wifi, except that "WEP security" is an oxymoron, and WPA >> is supposed to be OK, and WPA2 the best. I need to put in some practice >> time, and generally screw around with it to become familiar with how it >> works. It would help to have an ethernet connection as well, in case I >> find I need to download driver updates. >> > Walter, > > Second Cup offers a wireless connection. I am using one right now. > > Do they still charge for it? It used to be you had to pay with a charge card or billed to your cell phone account. Same thing with Starbucks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 16:33:46 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:33:46 +0000 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <20091113074904.GA1757-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <762995.6152.qm@web88107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1089a0320911120837k2eaf44fft5457e7dd8046f1d8@mail.gmail.com> <20091113074904.GA1757@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20091113163346.GB15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 02:49:04AM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 01:37:15PM -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote > > Well.. What's your OS? > > Gentoo with Fluxbox WM. > > > Have any wifi software like wicd, networkmanager, etc.. ? > > Not when I wrote the email... maybe that's why I get... > > [aa1][root][/usr/src/linux] iwlist wlan0 scanning > wlan0 Interface doesn't support scanning : Network is down > > [...later...] > > The Knoppix boot key does see 5 wireless networks in my building. I > get 5 listings like your "NeuronetZvovo". That's surprising, since > Knoppix is using the Ath5k driver and lspci -v says that my netbook has > > 03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR242x 802.11abg Wireless PCI Express Adapter (rev 01) > Subsystem: Foxconn International, Inc. Device e00d > > If the Knoppix ethernet driver worked, I'd be very tempted to blow > away Gentoo on the netbook, and do a hard-disk install of Knoppix. > Under Gentoo, I emerged ath5k and networkmanager and got... Well strangely the ath5k covers a lot of atheros 2k as well. There have been some bugs at times in the kernel for that driver, so it might work in one kernel, break in the next one, work again in the one after that. It is getting there though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 16:44:38 2009 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:44:38 -0800 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <20091113163346.GB15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <762995.6152.qm@web88107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1089a0320911120837k2eaf44fft5457e7dd8046f1d8@mail.gmail.com> <20091113074904.GA1757@waltdnes.org> <20091113163346.GB15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <712ca2da0911130844t45f4cee1mdecefda8e0f89cd7@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well strangely the ath5k covers a lot of atheros 2k as well. ?There have > been some bugs at times in the kernel for that driver, so it might work > in one kernel, break in the next one, work again in the one after that. > It is getting there though. > Well, I hope it gets their sooner than later. It's kind of frustrating though to have Ubuntu choose it as the default and for Debian to completely drop MadWifi (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=519446) even though ath5k is still in an 'unstable' state. -- Brandon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 17:45:14 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:45:14 -0500 Subject: centralized logging Message-ID: <4AFD9B2A.3080100@tmis.ca> I was wondering what TLUG users have found useful for reviewing logs at one location. I have found splunk.com, but are there are solutions? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 17:50:09 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:50:09 -0500 Subject: centralized logging In-Reply-To: <4AFD9B2A.3080100-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4AFD9B2A.3080100@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4AFD9C51.6030302@moores.ca> you can set up logging in /etc/syslog.conf to send all log files to a central server. Then you can use something like logcheck to review those logs on the server and send a single email on a regular basis with any noteworthy entries. teddy mills wrote: > > I was wondering what TLUG users have found useful for > reviewing logs at one location. > > I have found splunk.com, but are there are solutions? > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 23:19:46 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:19:46 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <20091113074904.GA1757-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <762995.6152.qm@web88107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1089a0320911120837k2eaf44fft5457e7dd8046f1d8@mail.gmail.com> <20091113074904.GA1757@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20091113231946.GA10369@waltdnes.org> It looks pretty good now. Since I'm running Gentoo, I should've first looked for http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Wireless/Configuration which pointed out a few kernel settings I need to make. Having done that and rebuilt the kernel, things appear to be working great. I followed the examples at... http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Network_Wireless_for_Knoppix_5.3.1_FAQ The 2 commands iwconfig wlan0 essid PCLAB1 channel 9 ifconfig wlan0 up got the wireless up, and "iwlist wlan0 scanning" found 4 networks. I didn't try "pump -i wlan0". That'll wait for a visit to a hotspot. And before anyone asks, my iptables settings are not restricted to only eth0. I generallized that a long time ago to accomadate dialup. My only disappointment with the machine is that Intel has totally dropped the ball on the linux video driver. I'm stuck with 1024x768 using the VESA driver instead of the 1366x768 that Windows users get. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 13 19:32:55 2009 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:32:55 -0800 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <20091113231946.GA10369-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <762995.6152.qm@web88107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1089a0320911120837k2eaf44fft5457e7dd8046f1d8@mail.gmail.com> <20091113074904.GA1757@waltdnes.org> <20091113231946.GA10369@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <712ca2da0911131132l2f49e885w9fa34feb811b3981@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > ?It looks pretty good now. ?Since I'm running Gentoo, I should've first > looked for http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Wireless/Configuration which > pointed out a few kernel settings I need to make. ?Having done that and > rebuilt the kernel, things appear to be working great. > > ?I followed the examples at... > http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Network_Wireless_for_Knoppix_5.3.1_FAQ > The 2 commands > > iwconfig wlan0 essid PCLAB1 channel 9 > ifconfig wlan0 up > > got the wireless up, and "iwlist wlan0 scanning" found 4 networks. ?I > didn't try "pump -i wlan0". ?That'll wait for a visit to a hotspot. ?And > before anyone asks, my iptables settings are not restricted to only > eth0. ?I generallized that a long time ago to accomadate dialup. > > ?My only disappointment with the machine is that Intel has totally > dropped the ball on the linux video driver. ?I'm stuck with 1024x768 > using the VESA driver instead of the 1366x768 that Windows users get. > > -- > Walter Dnes If you want something to show you a real-time list of available networks, you could look at kismet. Though -- as a war-driving tool -- it could be viewed as something used to 'hack' wifi, so you might want to keep it hush-hush if you take your laptop to Germany. -- Brandon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 14 00:18:44 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:18:44 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <4AFD73BC.8050101-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <20091112201403.125ad77e.hgibson@eol.ca> <4AFD73BC.8050101@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20091113191844.19a76a1b.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:57:00 -0500 James Knott wrote: > Howard Gibson wrote: > > Walter, > > > > Second Cup offers a wireless connection. I am using one right now. > > > > > Do they still charge for it? It used to be you had to pay with a charge > card or billed to your cell phone account. Same thing with Starbucks. James, I bought a coffee and munchie. I disabled a yum updater that Second Cup's server detected. I am waiting for a replacement DSL modem at home. I hope it is there tonight. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 14 00:54:20 2009 From: echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:54:20 -0500 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <20091113191844.19a76a1b.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <20091112201403.125ad77e.hgibson@eol.ca> <4AFD73BC.8050101@rogers.com> <20091113191844.19a76a1b.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4AFDFFBC.8080601@teksavvy.com> I believe not all S.C.'s have wifi; at those that do you sign up for a free account online. I've run into several pubs with wifi; e.g. The Gladstone (totally open), the Rhino (~infinite beerlist) - password available. There's also the Quizno's at King & Dufferin ( totally open and inhouse - site has a goofy name). I go down to that area for experimental music. I bet other parts of town have similar resources. On 11/13/2009 07:18 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:57:00 -0500 > James Knott wrote: > >> Howard Gibson wrote: >>> Walter, >>> >>> Second Cup offers a wireless connection. I am using one right now. >>> >>> >> Do they still charge for it? It used to be you had to pay with a charge >> card or billed to your cell phone account. Same thing with Starbucks. > > James, > > I bought a coffee and munchie. I disabled a yum updater that Second Cup's server detected. I am waiting for a replacement DSL modem at home. I hope it is there tonight. > -- http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 14 00:58:03 2009 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:58:03 -0800 Subject: Where can I test out wifi? In-Reply-To: <4AFDFFBC.8080601-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20091112155746.GB956@waltdnes.org> <20091112201403.125ad77e.hgibson@eol.ca> <4AFD73BC.8050101@rogers.com> <20091113191844.19a76a1b.hgibson@eol.ca> <4AFDFFBC.8080601@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <712ca2da0911131658s7c5a00fl22988e397426d59f@mail.gmail.com> Don't know why I didn't think of this sooner: http://wirelesstoronto.ca/ -- Brandon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 15 00:05:31 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 19:05:31 -0500 Subject: Unable to connect wifi with Asus Aspireone Netbook Message-ID: <20091115000531.GB18795@waltdnes.org> I had an errand at Yonge and Finch today, so I took my netbook with me. A nice 15-minute stroll, and I was at the North York Centre library. I sat down and tried connecting. I created a symlink from /etc/init.d/net.lo to /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 and ran "/etc/init.d/net.wlan0 start". I got some messages about handshaking, a lease being offered for address 10.0.1.17, and being accepted. I fired up Firefox, and tried to connect to the web, but nothing happened. There was a message in the status bar about "Connecting to spyder.local...". What was supposed to happen? Is there some Windows-oriented protocol I missed? (Yes, I am a wifi newbie). -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 15 17:50:08 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:50:08 -0500 Subject: Unable to connect wifi with Asus Aspireone Netbook In-Reply-To: <20091115000531.GB18795-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091115000531.GB18795@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280911150950v6651296ck3b47625c9333da2c@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/14 Walter Dnes : > ?I had an errand at Yonge and Finch today, so I took my netbook with > me. ?A nice 15-minute stroll, and I was at the North York Centre > library. ?I sat down and tried connecting. > > ?I created a symlink from /etc/init.d/net.lo to /etc/init.d/net.wlan0 > and ran "/etc/init.d/net.wlan0 start". ?I got some messages about > handshaking, a lease being offered for address 10.0.1.17, and being > accepted. ?I fired up Firefox, and tried to connect to the web, but > nothing happened. ?There was a message in the status bar about > "Connecting to spyder.local...". ?What was supposed to happen? ?Is > there some Windows-oriented protocol I missed? ?(Yes, I am a wifi > newbie). I'm no expert, but I do use the library's wifi occasionally. Mostly because I work there. :-) After you make the initial connection, you can't actually do anything until you open a browser window and try to go somewhere, at which point Spyders hijacks the connection and gives you a EULA-equivalent. After you agree to that, you should be good to go. Spyders (who run the connection for TPL) isn't particularly fast and you'll get dropped pretty quickly (I assume because they have so many incoming connection requests?), but it does work. Good luck. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 15 18:42:19 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:42:19 -0500 Subject: SELinux Message-ID: <20091115134219.3a9a8225.hgibson@eol.ca> I am trying to configure SELinux to allow me to mount directories on my other machines. SElinux crashes when I try to configure it. [howard at rev ~]$ system-config-selinux /usr/share/system-config-selinux/system-config-selinux.py:72: Warning: IA__g_object_get_valist: object class `GnomeProgram' has no property named `default-icon' xml = gtk.glade.XML ("/usr/share/system-config-selinux/system-config-selinux.glade", domain=PROGNAME) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/share/system-config-selinux/system-config-selinux.py", line 188, in app = childWindow() File "/usr/share/system-config-selinux/system-config-selinux.py", line 86, in __init__ self.add_page(booleansPage.booleansPage(xml)) File "/usr/share/system-config-selinux/booleansPage.py", line 139, in __init__ self.load(self.filter) File "/usr/share/system-config-selinux/booleansPage.py", line 202, in load booleansList = self.booleans.get_all(self.local) File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/seobject.py", line 1863, in get_all value.append(selinux.security_get_boolean_pending(name)) OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory [howard at rev ~]$ My machine was installed with Fedora Core 10. I allowed it to upgrade itself to FC11. Does anybody know how to fix this, other than by disabling the firewall? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 15 18:53:55 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:53:55 -0500 Subject: SELinux In-Reply-To: <20091115134219.3a9a8225.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20091115134219.3a9a8225.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4B004E43.6050307@utoronto.ca> Howard Gibson wrote: > I am trying to configure SELinux to allow me to mount directories on my other machines. SElinux crashes when I try to configure it. > > [howard at rev ~]$ system-config-selinux > /usr/share/system-config-selinux/system-config-selinux.py:72: Warning: IA__g_object_get_valist: object class `GnomeProgram' has no property named `default-icon' > xml = gtk.glade.XML ("/usr/share/system-config-selinux/system-config-selinux.glade", domain=PROGNAME) > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/share/system-config-selinux/system-config-selinux.py", line 188, in > app = childWindow() > File "/usr/share/system-config-selinux/system-config-selinux.py", line 86, in __init__ > self.add_page(booleansPage.booleansPage(xml)) > File "/usr/share/system-config-selinux/booleansPage.py", line 139, in __init__ > self.load(self.filter) > File "/usr/share/system-config-selinux/booleansPage.py", line 202, in load > booleansList = self.booleans.get_all(self.local) > File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/seobject.py", line 1863, in get_all > value.append(selinux.security_get_boolean_pending(name)) > OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory > [howard at rev ~]$ > > My machine was installed with Fedora Core 10. I allowed it to upgrade itself to FC11. > > Does anybody know how to fix this, other than by disabling the firewall? Looks like a bug in Fedora 11: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=500828 So you can either enable the updates-testing repository, or wait for the update to come down the pipe into the main update repository. By that time, I'd expect Constantine (Fedora 12) will be released to the world, so.. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 15 19:00:30 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:00:30 -0500 Subject: Unable to connect wifi with Asus Aspireone Netbook In-Reply-To: <1f13df280911150950v6651296ck3b47625c9333da2c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20091115000531.GB18795@waltdnes.org> <1f13df280911150950v6651296ck3b47625c9333da2c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091115190030.GA22832@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 12:50:08PM -0500, Giles Orr wrote > After you make the initial connection, you can't actually do anything > until you open a browser window and try to go somewhere, at which > point Spyders hijacks the connection and gives you a EULA-equivalent. > After you agree to that, you should be good to go. Spyders (who > run the connection for TPL) isn't particularly fast and you'll get > dropped pretty quickly (I assume because they have so many incoming > connection requests?), but it does work. Good luck. Thanks for the explanation. Next chance I get, I'll try my "Wideopen" Firefox profile, as opposed to "Default", which borders on paranoid. I wonder if I set Default to block redirection. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 16 11:11:47 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 06:11:47 -0500 Subject: One or more of the mounts listed in /etc/fstab cannot yet be mounted Message-ID: <4B013373.9080700@rogers.com> I am getting this error as I boot Ubuntu 9.10. It is the partition that contains (only) my /home directory. It is formatted as ext3. I suspect that I filled the partition up. I am downloading a Boot CD. How can I proceed to repair? Is there a data recovery tool? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 16 13:46:08 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:46:08 -0500 Subject: One or more of the mounts listed in /etc/fstab cannot yet be mounted In-Reply-To: <4B013373.9080700-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4B013373.9080700@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4B0157A0.5070501@alteeve.com> Stephen wrote: > I am getting this error as I boot Ubuntu 9.10. > > It is the partition that contains (only) my /home directory. It is > formatted as ext3. > > I suspect that I filled the partition up. > > I am downloading a Boot CD. > > How can I proceed to repair? > > Is there a data recovery tool? > > Thanks > Stephen Boot the 9.10 live CD, open a terminal and run 'fstab -l'. Then create a directory under '/mnt' for each partition listed above and then found them with 'mount /dev/sdXY /mnt/Z' where 'X' is the disk's letter, 'Y' is the partition number and 'Z' is the directory you made for each partition (call them whatever makes sense to you). If you get any errors, post them. If you can mount the root partition, cat fstab and post it and the output from 'fdisk -l' as a reply. Simply filling up a partition should not prevent mounting, unless you filled up '/var' as root and it's dieing because it can't log the mount. If that is the case, mounting under the live CD should work. hth Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 16 14:02:00 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 06:02:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: One or more of the mounts listed in /etc/fstab cannot yet be mounted In-Reply-To: <4B0157A0.5070501-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0157A0.5070501@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <237370.98095.qm@web88103.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 11/16/09, Madison Kelly wrote: > Stephen wrote: > > I am getting this error as I boot Ubuntu 9.10. > > > > It is the partition that contains (only) my /home >> directory. It is formatted as ext3. > Boot the 9.10 live CD, open a terminal and run 'fstab -l'. > Then create a directory under '/mnt' for each partition > listed above and then found them with 'mount /dev/sdXY > /mnt/Z' where 'X' is the disk's letter, 'Y' is the partition > number and 'Z' is the directory you made for each partition > (call them whatever makes sense to you). > > If you get any errors, post them. If you can mount the root > partition, cat fstab and post it and the output from 'fdisk > -l' as a reply. > > Simply filling up a partition should not prevent mounting, > unless you filled up '/var' as root and it's dieing because > it can't log the mount. If that is the case, mounting under > the live CD should work. I think /. and VAR and USR are mounting fine. They are in another partition, but on the same disk as /home. I will look at fstab and see if anything looks odd in there. I think fsck is my next step. Another oddity is my system now does not like USD keyboard and mouse. I switched back the PS/2 variety (being a pack rat can be a good thing). I will not get home until 6:00 Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 16:50:36 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:50:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora 12 is out! Message-ID: Fedora 12 is released! http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Talking_Points http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/ http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/12/FeatureList -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 16:51:48 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:51:48 +0300 Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B02D4A4.2030403@gmail.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Fedora 12 is released! > So what? Who cares? I myself do not care for new releases and would not use Fedora. zb. > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Talking_Points > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/ > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/12/FeatureList > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 16:59:44 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:59:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: <4B02D4A4.2030403-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B02D4A4.2030403@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Nov 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > So what? Who cares? Obviously, I do. :-) -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 17:08:05 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:08:05 +0300 Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: References: <4B02D4A4.2030403@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B02D875.8030905@gmail.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Tue, 17 Nov 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> So what? Who cares? > > Obviously, I do. :-) > So, I see that I need to apologize for my message. Others start to think that since my posting was like in chat room - that they can continue like in chat room. This is however not an IRC channel but a mailing list, of, mostly, professionals (not like me). So, why do you care about Fedora? Who cares otherwise about your personal preferences? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 17:15:37 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:15:37 -0500 Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: References: <4B02D4A4.2030403@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B02DA39.7070103@rogers.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Tue, 17 Nov 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> So what? Who cares? > > Obviously, I do. :-) > Well, we all have our faults. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 17:20:31 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:20:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: <4B02D875.8030905-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B02D4A4.2030403@gmail.com> <4B02D875.8030905@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Nov 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > So, why do you care about Fedora? Well, I like systems with rpm packaging system. Don't get me wrong, Fedora do have its issues, being always bleeding edge. However, when I tried others - such as Mandriva and PCLinuxOS, which are great distributions - those also have problems, spefically being smaller communities more software never make it into those distributions. > Who cares otherwise about your personal preferences? Well, apparently you, since you asked. -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 17:21:53 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:21:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: <4B02DA39.7070103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4B02D4A4.2030403@gmail.com> <4B02DA39.7070103@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Nov 2009, James Knott wrote: > Well, we all have our faults. ;-) ... and virtues. :-) -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 17:22:14 2009 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:22:14 -0500 Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: <4B02D875.8030905-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B02D4A4.2030403@gmail.com> <4B02D875.8030905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5390d2750911170922nc40607dv648a5e7be8250fff@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: >> >> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>> >>> So what? Who cares? >> >> Obviously, I do. :-) >> > So, I see that I need to apologize for my message. Others start to think > that since my posting was like in chat room - that they can continue like in > chat room. This is however not an IRC channel but a mailing list, of, > mostly, professionals (not like me). > > So, why do you care about Fedora? I for one am looking forward to finding out if claims of improvements in virtualization make any difference for my use. Also updated systemtap is interesting to me. It'll probably be a couple weeks before I install on my primary though. > > Who cares otherwise about your personal preferences? You felt the need to let all N-hundred of us know your feelings on the matter. Thanks for sharing. But then why the hating on others for doing the same? And in general, why the need to respond so negatively for someone posting news about a major Linux distribution to a LUG mailing list? Is it so inconceivable that someone might be interested? jon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 17:27:46 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:27:46 -0500 Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: <4B02D4A4.2030403-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B02D4A4.2030403@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B02DD12.3000605@alteeve.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: >> Fedora 12 is released! >> > > So what? Who cares? I myself do not care for new releases and would not > use Fedora. > > zb. Dude, that was pretty rude and uncalled for. I may not use it, and you don't either, but FC is one of the most popular distros. Heck, even if it wasn't, a new release of any F/LOSS project is note worthy on a mailing list like GTALUG. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 18:51:30 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:51:30 -0500 Subject: Acer Aspire One temperature, WAS: Acer Aspire One questions Message-ID: <1f13df280911171051v195fa454r12173cbda07ebd7e@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/5 Madison Kelly : > Giles Orr wrote: >> I bought an Acer Aspire One recently and installed Debian testing on >> it. I have several questions: [SNIP] >> - the command "acpi -t" returns no information at all, where would I >> start on getting that working? > > Not sure, but I know on my Debian server I get nothing from ACPI, too. I've > not looked into it, but would be curious to hear what you find out. I managed to get the temperature from the machine, although by a method which will offer no help to anyone who doesn't own an AAO. Dave Collier-Brown pointed me to a utility for controlling the AAO's fan. It calls a Perl script (http://code.google.com/p/aceracpi/wiki/EmbeddedController) which dumps the registers of the embedded controller, and one of those registers contains the temperature. It hasn't been abstracted more than this because apparently what register contains what info is subject to change with every BIOS version. Happily I was able to write a small Bash script to call the Perl script, grab the correct register, and convert the hex value to a decimal Celsius temperature. (If I knew perl better I would just have modded the original script, but my perl is pretty weak.) -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 19:06:48 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:06:48 -0500 Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: <5390d2750911170922nc40607dv648a5e7be8250fff-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4B02D4A4.2030403@gmail.com> <4B02D875.8030905@gmail.com> <5390d2750911170922nc40607dv648a5e7be8250fff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B02F448.50503@gmail.com> Jon VanAlten wrote: > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: .. >> Who cares otherwise about your personal preferences? > > You felt the need to let all N-hundred of us know your feelings on the > matter. Thanks for sharing. But then why the hating on others for > doing the same? And in general, why the need to respond so negatively > for someone posting news about a major Linux distribution to a LUG > mailing list? Is it so inconceivable that someone might be > interested? I've filed this as a Zbigniew comment. Nothing personal I'm sure. It should all be taken with a bit of tea and a lot of vodka. Slightly off topic, I was thinking about this kind of email the other day. I mean lots of people send regrettable emails like this.... If one could install a Bayesian filter on one's outgoing SMTP server, maybe it could pick out the difference between mean email and not-mean email. Mean email could be held overnight for review in the morning. Nice mail would go through without delay. We could suggest it to RMS and maybe a few world governments. It could solve lots of problems in the world. :-) -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 19:16:57 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:16:57 -0500 Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: <4B02F448.50503-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B02D4A4.2030403@gmail.com> <4B02D875.8030905@gmail.com> <5390d2750911170922nc40607dv648a5e7be8250fff@mail.gmail.com> <4B02F448.50503@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091117191657.GA23965@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 02:06:48PM -0500, Mike Kallies wrote: >I've filed this as a Zbigniew comment. Nothing personal I'm sure. It >should all be taken with a bit of tea and a lot of vodka. That was how I saw it as well. >Slightly off topic, I was thinking about this kind of email the other >day. I mean lots of people send regrettable emails like this.... > >If one could install a Bayesian filter on one's outgoing SMTP server, >maybe it could pick out the difference between mean email and not-mean >email. Mean email could be held overnight for review in the morning. >Nice mail would go through without delay. > >We could suggest it to RMS and maybe a few world governments. It could >solve lots of problems in the world. The trouble is, how would such a filter discern the difference between scathing sarcasm and deferent politeness? Still, the mail goggles [1] idea is one worth installing - perhaps at the server level - postfix or mailman could send you a polite email suggesting that you reconsider, with an opt-in to really send your hate-filled missive. [1] http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/new-in-labs-stop-sending-mail-you-later.html -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 20:06:07 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:06:07 -0500 Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: <20091117191657.GA23965-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B02D4A4.2030403@gmail.com> <4B02D875.8030905@gmail.com> <5390d2750911170922nc40607dv648a5e7be8250fff@mail.gmail.com> <4B02F448.50503@gmail.com> <20091117191657.GA23965@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4B03022F.2030904@gmail.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 02:06:48PM -0500, Mike Kallies wrote: > >> I've filed this as a Zbigniew comment. Nothing personal I'm sure. It >> should all be taken with a bit of tea and a lot of vodka. > > That was how I saw it as well. > >> Slightly off topic, I was thinking about this kind of email the other >> day. I mean lots of people send regrettable emails like this.... >> >> If one could install a Bayesian filter on one's outgoing SMTP server, >> maybe it could pick out the difference between mean email and not-mean >> email. Mean email could be held overnight for review in the morning. >> Nice mail would go through without delay. >> >> We could suggest it to RMS and maybe a few world governments. It could >> solve lots of problems in the world. > > The trouble is, how would such a filter discern the difference between > scathing sarcasm and deferent politeness? Hello William, If it could flag it as questionable, then a human could make a decision. I don't know much about Bayesian methods, but there seems to be a Perl program which somebody wrote to parse based on words: http://getpopfile.org But in this case, aside from cutting out contractions, we've got stark expressions such as: "So what?" "Who cares?" "I myself" "do not care" "and would not" If one could train based on expressions such as the above, maybe parsing on sentences and grammar, it could score expressions based on learned categories. Then it would be a matter of making sure the opening and closing tone of the email are scored consistent. There's probably a lot of other stuff which can be measured... I'm not saying it's easy. This could actually have applications in writing in foreign languages, aiding people with Asperger's, and just regular daily writing... Put it in a grammar checker and it could say rather than just "This is in a passive style" it could say "Nice people don't use those words" or "you're being a jerk, please consider contradictory emoticons to lower the tone, or change the message options to 'flame'." It'd be cool :-) -Mike (and now I'm WAAAAAY off topic) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 20:22:10 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:22:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: S P Arif Sahari Wibowo | Fedora 12 is released! Thanks. I don't understand why so many people think that it is worthwhile disliking Fedora. It seems to be a mild form of the hatred many of us have for MS Windows. Are we on this list just too tribal? BTW, I am annoyed at MS Windows. Today's reason is that I find it very difficult to get scanner software working for my father's HP Scanjet 4600. It used to work but some kind of bitrot has set in (if I knew what kind, I could perhaps fix it). If only HP would document the scanner interface so that it could be supported in Linux. Why do I blame Windows? Because that ecosystem is full of fire and forget products. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 20:34:32 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:34:32 -0500 Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: <4B02D4A4.2030403-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B02D4A4.2030403@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: >> >> Fedora 12 is released! >> > > So what? Who cares? I myself do not care for new releases and would not use > Fedora. ZB, can you not ignore a message if you don't like it? I'm not a Fedora users but Arif is excited and just wants to announce to the list. The way I see it, this mailing list is about Linux and sometimes more. I value everyone's comment and posts even if it doesn't have any direct value to me. Being a Kubuntu user, I do care about the Fedora announcement =) -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 20:38:50 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:38:50 -0500 Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 3:22 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: S P Arif Sahari Wibowo > > | Fedora 12 is released! > > Thanks. > > I don't understand why so many people think that it is worthwhile > disliking Fedora. ?It seems to be a mild form of the hatred many of us > have for MS Windows. ?Are we on this list just too tribal? I was thinking a little bit about "tribalism" in other contexts recently, and arrived at the conclusion that people in every place in every context are pretty "tribal" in terms of adhering loyally to the values of their respective tribes. Personally, I don't care a whole lot about the Fedora 12 release, as I don't use elder releases and am not too likely to use newer ones, however, there's a certain bit of "tribal consonance" that I'm happy enough to congratulate the "Fedora tribe" at achieving a new release. Good for them... > BTW, I am annoyed at MS Windows. ?Today's reason is that I find it > very difficult to get scanner software working for my father's HP > Scanjet 4600. ?It used to work but some kind of bitrot has set in (if > I knew what kind, I could perhaps fix it). If only HP would document > the scanner interface so that it could be supported in Linux. ?Why do > I blame Windows? ?Because that ecosystem is full of fire and forget > products. I thought it was the government that would effectively fire people and then forget to actually terminate them... Maybe I'm taking the wrong connotation to that ;-). More seriously, I'll take a very slight bit of exception: I don't think the problem you observe is caused by Windows(tm); it's just an effect that will tend to frequently occur in the same "lowest common denominator" set of systems that happen, most often, to be running Bill's OS. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Ogden Nash - "The trouble with a kitten is that when it grows up, it's always a cat." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/o/ogden_nash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 20:39:29 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:39:29 -0500 Subject: Fedora 12 is out! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091117203928.GC15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 03:22:10PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I don't understand why so many people think that it is worthwhile > disliking Fedora. It seems to be a mild form of the hatred many of us > have for MS Windows. Are we on this list just too tribal? Personally I don't care about Fedora. I used to be a redhat user many years ago. I learned a lot, it was better than what I had used before (SLS, slackware) by far, but the quality went downhill over time. The rpm package format is certainly not easy to work with and is part of the problems it started having. The fact the free releases were later discontinued (I stopped at 6.0 and remember the horrors of 7.0 and being happy not to have to deal with them). Fedora pretends to be a community project, but when it really comes down to it, redhat is still in charge and it is to a large extent a development and beta testing system for future RHEL releases. If you think I am wrong, well that's your business, but you are probably kidding yourself. It is certainly better in many ways than the old redhat releases were. It now has network downloads of packages for installation (I believe), which it certainly never used to have when I used it. Of course when I dropped redhat I moved to Debian, and well it had a much better package manger, designed with the internet in mind, the package format is much more advanced (at least in many ways, there may be a few exceptions where rpm has an advantage), and unlike fedora of today, debian really is a community project that doesn't play by the whims of someone's business plan or bottom line. So after 10 years of using debian I am sticking to it. I still haven't met a better linux distribution, so until I do, I will stay put. I have changed before, and I may do so again, just as soon as a better system comes along. Fedora serves the purpose of being a free redhat linux distribution, and a test system for RHEL. If that's what you are looking for, it does the job. Like every other commercially backed distribution with fixed release dates, it has bugs when released that can be a major pain if you hit them. That's life with fixed release dates. If you don't like it, switch to something else. > BTW, I am annoyed at MS Windows. Today's reason is that I find it > very difficult to get scanner software working for my father's HP > Scanjet 4600. It used to work but some kind of bitrot has set in (if > I knew what kind, I could perhaps fix it). If only HP would document > the scanner interface so that it could be supported in Linux. Why do > I blame Windows? Because that ecosystem is full of fire and forget > products. But is this the fault of windows, or the fault of HP? Much to my surprise, this HP all in one crap thing I have worked right away when I plugged it into a linux box recently. I have no idea how to get it to work with vista or windows 7 though. Can't seem to find drivers for it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 21:44:46 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:44:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Dell Inspiron Zino HD (like Mac Mini) Message-ID: This is a new Dell thing that reminds one of a Mac Mini. Seems quite interesting to me, but with problems. Of course I judge it as if it were a Mac Mini, but that may not be fair Nice picture: http://blogs.amd.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ZinoHD-Specs.jpg (What does "scalable only" mean with respect to eSATA?) + AMD low-power CPUs so better than Atom-based things (but worse than Mac Mini which uses C2D). Do these do VT? - base unit is US$229 or C$349. And the Canadian version has 1G of RAM versus 2G in the US version - upgrade Athlon 2650e to Athlon X2 3250e US$60 C$150 - no remote control - only 2.1 sound! (I think that the HDMI carries surround sound, but it is not mentioned in the specs. Uses an AMD740G which (if I remember correctly) does some high def sound but not all you'd like.) + there is an option for a better video chip but I don't know how that is installed. It does not seem to be a PCIe slot, but I could be wrong. ATI Radeon HD 4330 with 512M: US$75 C$99 + optional colour. Costs US$10 / C$30. + comes with DVD-writer. Upgrade to BluRay reader / DVD writer: US$100 / C$129 - in general, nice options quickly increase the price. ? I wonder how quiet this is I'm tempted by the US prices and turned off by the Canadian premium. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 21:55:05 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:55:05 -0500 Subject: Dell Inspiron Zino HD (like Mac Mini) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091117215505.GD15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 04:44:46PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > This is a new Dell thing that reminds one of a Mac Mini. > Seems quite interesting to me, but with problems. Of course I judge it as > if it were a Mac Mini, but that may not be fair > > Nice picture: > http://blogs.amd.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ZinoHD-Specs.jpg > (What does "scalable only" mean with respect to eSATA?) > > + AMD low-power CPUs so better than Atom-based things (but worse than > Mac Mini which uses C2D). Do these do VT? The Athlon 64 2650e has AMD-V. I can't find the X2 3250e in the list, but it is supposed to use the same core, so it too should have AMD-V. > - base unit is US$229 or C$349. And the Canadian version has 1G of RAM > versus 2G in the US version > > - upgrade Athlon 2650e to Athlon X2 3250e US$60 C$150 > > - no remote control > > - only 2.1 sound! (I think that the HDMI carries surround sound, but it > is not mentioned in the specs. Uses an AMD740G which (if I remember > correctly) does some high def sound but not all you'd like.) > > + there is an option for a better video chip but I don't know how that > is installed. It does not seem to be a PCIe slot, but I could be > wrong. ATI Radeon HD 4330 with 512M: US$75 C$99 I am so not ready to give ATI chipsets another chance yet. Not for me. > + optional colour. Costs US$10 / C$30. > > + comes with DVD-writer. Upgrade to BluRay reader / DVD writer: US$100 / > C$129 > > - in general, nice options quickly increase the price. > > ? I wonder how quiet this is > > I'm tempted by the US prices and turned off by the Canadian premium. Well that seems to happen whenever the canadian doller is boosted a bit. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 23:05:24 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:05:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: M$ Patents sudo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <470986.96665.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 11/11/09, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > From: D. Hugh Redelmeier > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: M$ Patents sudo > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 5:05 PM > | From: Jamon Camisso > > | John Myshrall wrote: > | > This should be a late April Fools joke from the > USPTO. As someone points out > | > "Suedo" me please. I wonder when they will patent > the on button? > | > > | > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111094923390 > | > | IBM already has a patent for check boxes: > | http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=7,278,116 > > I find patents hard to read. > > Neither of these patents seem to be for exactly what the > critics > claim. Not that I like these patents. > > The MS one seems to ask about raising priviledge when the > current > level won't work for a requested operation. sudo does > not do that. > Lots of other things do. > I routinely use sudo to run privileged commands like apt-get and I was thinking I was raising the privilege level from ordinary user to root by so doing. Am I missing something here? EK __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 17 23:27:35 2009 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:27:35 -0800 Subject: M$ Patents sudo In-Reply-To: <470986.96665.qm-Fzfr+oC8rxz5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <470986.96665.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <712ca2da0911171527o32611b85g1b887284ffb623c2@mail.gmail.com> I think that it's talking about prompting you to authenticate when the required action is above your permission level. If I run 'rm -rf /' as a normal user I won't have permission to delete most things. 'sudo' doesn't prompt me with a "I see you're trying to delete files/folders you don't have permissions for. Do you want to enter the root password?" In that case, I have to manually decide that my actions will require root privs and run 'sudo rm -rf /'. In any case, MacOS was doing this thing before MS released Vista. They're still patenting something that has prior art. -- Brandon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 18 01:16:53 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:16:53 -0500 Subject: M$ Patents sudo In-Reply-To: <712ca2da0911171527o32611b85g1b887284ffb623c2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <470986.96665.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <712ca2da0911171527o32611b85g1b887284ffb623c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B034B05.4060401@moores.ca> Even without prior art. Things which contribute only an iota of innovation and would be plainly obvious to one "trained in the art" should not qualify for a patent. Sadly however it usually does. An iota of innovation is all one needs for a patent and there really is not practical test for obviousness at all. Since the original purpose of patents was to make available that which would otherwise be kept secret, I think a primary test for patentability would have to be how well the invention lends itself to reverse engineering. If the product can easily be reverse engineered, or is even obvious in its presentation (such as this one) it should automatically not qualify for a patent. Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > I think that it's talking about prompting you to authenticate when the > required action is above your permission level. If I run 'rm -rf /' > as a normal user I won't have permission to delete most things. 'sudo' > doesn't prompt me with a "I see you're trying to delete files/folders > you don't have permissions for. Do you want to enter the root > password?" In that case, I have to manually decide that my actions > will require root privs and run 'sudo rm -rf /'. In any case, MacOS > was doing this thing before MS released Vista. They're still > patenting something that has prior art. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 18 01:57:03 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:57:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: M$ Patents sudo In-Reply-To: <4B034B05.4060401-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <470986.96665.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <712ca2da0911171527o32611b85g1b887284ffb623c2@mail.gmail.com> <4B034B05.4060401@moores.ca> Message-ID: | From: Darryl Moore | | Even without prior art. Things which contribute only an iota of | innovation and would be plainly obvious to one "trained in the art" | should not qualify for a patent. Sadly however it usually does. An iota | of innovation is all one needs for a patent and there really is not | practical test for obviousness at all. +1 Having said that, I will also admit that my standard for unobviousness might be rather high. Like in the cartoon where the prof looks at a proof for an hour before confirming that it is obvious. I would bet that a lot of things that have been patented in the non-software world would look bad to us if we knew of them and their area. And I'm not even thinking of genes. "Intelectual Property" law is bleeding into too much of everyday life. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 18 19:38:36 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:38:36 -0500 Subject: Interesting article on Adobe Air Message-ID: It sounds as though Adobe Air mayn't be something you'd want to be keen to adopt... http://wiki.debian-community.org/planets/en/feeds/Francois-Denis_Gonthier/My_experience_with_Adobe_Air/ "In this post I will vent of some of the grudges I have with this new platform on Linux." The bit that seems the very worst to me: "Adobe Air applications ... apparently rely on some specific features of GNOME or KDE window managers to work properly." This is a restriction that doesn't apply to Gnome/KDE applications!?! -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Stephen Leacock - "I detest life-insurance agents: they always argue that I shall some day die, which is not so." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/stephen_leacock.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 18 19:51:47 2009 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:51:47 -0800 Subject: Interesting article on Adobe Air In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <712ca2da0911181151k1dcb6fdamcfe0108efb4db7df@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > This is a restriction that doesn't apply to Gnome/KDE applications!?! After reading that, I'm assuming that he's talking about compositing. He also doesn't seem to know about xcompmgr, instead saying that he enabled 'limited compositing' features in KDE 3.5. Not that I have much experience with AdobeAIR applications. It would have been a better post had he explicitly stated what these requirements were instead of just hinting that they were there. -- Brandon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 19 00:04:19 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:04:19 -0500 Subject: Berkman Broadband Study Message-ID: <4B048B83.1060704@tmis.ca> http://www.fcc.gov/stage/pdf/Berkman_Center_Broadband_Study_13Oct09.pdf Page 111 is some Canada stuff. CRTC messup? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 19 02:35:38 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:35:38 -0500 Subject: Grub2 setup question Message-ID: <4B04AEFA.2070807@alteeve.com> Hi all, So I'm back to square one in my understanding of grub with v2. I'm hoping someone can help me out and/or point me to a decent tutorial on the new system. I've picked up an eSATA drive that I've installed CentOS5 on. I did this with my main Ubuntu 9.10 hard drive unplugged just to be sure that I didn't accidentally muck it up. So now I am finished the install and back under Ubuntu. I've trying to sort out how to add the CentOS install to my Ubuntu's grub. I dare not randomly try things as I normally would, given the potential of an unbootable system. So, given: /dev/sda (hd0,x) = Ubuntu /dev/sdb (hd1,x) = CentOS What is the safe way of setting up grub with an option to boot off the second drive? Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 19 03:09:27 2009 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:09:27 -0500 Subject: Grub2 setup question In-Reply-To: <4B04AEFA.2070807-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B04AEFA.2070807@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Hi Madi, I can't help you, but I did find a Gentoo wiki page that looks useful: http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Grub2 You might be able to work out what you need from there - though it is Gentoo-oriented. Good luck - and don't forget that Grub 2 has "simplified" drive and partition numbering. Cheers, Colin On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > > Hi all, > > ?So I'm back to square one in my understanding of grub with v2. I'm hoping someone can help me out and/or point me to a decent tutorial on the new system. > > ?I've picked up an eSATA drive that I've installed CentOS5 on. I did this with my main Ubuntu 9.10 hard drive unplugged just to be sure that I didn't accidentally muck it up. So now I am finished the install and back under Ubuntu. > > ?I've trying to sort out how to add the CentOS install to my Ubuntu's grub. I dare not randomly try things as I normally would, given the potential of an unbootable system. > > ?So, given: > > /dev/sda (hd0,x) = Ubuntu > /dev/sdb (hd1,x) = CentOS > > ?What is the safe way of setting up grub with an option to boot off the second drive? > > Thanks! > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 19 03:37:48 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:37:48 -0500 Subject: Grub2 setup question In-Reply-To: <4B04AEFA.2070807-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B04AEFA.2070807@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4B04BD8C.4060602@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > So I'm back to square one in my understanding of grub with v2. I'm > hoping someone can help me out and/or point me to a decent tutorial on > the new system. > > I've picked up an eSATA drive that I've installed CentOS5 on. I did > this with my main Ubuntu 9.10 hard drive unplugged just to be sure that > I didn't accidentally muck it up. So now I am finished the install and > back under Ubuntu. > > I've trying to sort out how to add the CentOS install to my Ubuntu's > grub. I dare not randomly try things as I normally would, given the > potential of an unbootable system. > > So, given: > > /dev/sda (hd0,x) = Ubuntu > /dev/sdb (hd1,x) = CentOS > > What is the safe way of setting up grub with an option to boot off the > second drive? The annoying part is that with grub2, partitions start at 1 instead of 0 now, e.g. I have a /boot partition that used to be hd0,0 and is now hd0,1 with grub2. Take a bit of getting used to. With a /boot partition on /dev/sdb that is the first partition on a disk, entries would look like this (use UUID or LABEL for root= devices to be sure you are using the right disk(s)): menuentry "Ubuntu foo" { insmod ext2 set root=(hd0,1) linux /boot/vmlinuz-foo root=/dev/sda1 initrd /boot/initrd.img-foo } menuentry "Centos foo" { insmod ext2 set root=(hd1,1) linux /boot/vmlinuz-foo root=/dev/sdb1 initrd /boot/initrd-foo.img } This assumes you have the whole installation on one partition which is likely not the case? If you have a separate /boot partition, each linux/initrd entry doesn't need the leading /boot part. And like I said, use UUIDs or LABELs to keep from getting partitions confused. I'd expect your Centos install is using LVM whereas Ubuntu is not, so you'd probably just end up with a busybox shell once the Centos initrd got to the point of switchroot failing :) But it is easy to avoid that problem entirely. HTH, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 19 15:26:52 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:26:52 -0500 Subject: Grub2 setup question In-Reply-To: <4B04AEFA.2070807-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B04AEFA.2070807@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20091119152652.GE15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 09:35:38PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > So I'm back to square one in my understanding of grub with v2. I'm > hoping someone can help me out and/or point me to a decent tutorial on > the new system. > > I've picked up an eSATA drive that I've installed CentOS5 on. I did > this with my main Ubuntu 9.10 hard drive unplugged just to be sure that > I didn't accidentally muck it up. So now I am finished the install and > back under Ubuntu. > > I've trying to sort out how to add the CentOS install to my Ubuntu's > grub. I dare not randomly try things as I normally would, given the > potential of an unbootable system. > > So, given: > > /dev/sda (hd0,x) = Ubuntu > /dev/sdb (hd1,x) = CentOS > > What is the safe way of setting up grub with an option to boot off the > second drive? Do you want to install a boot loader on the second drie to make it bootable, or is it already bootable and you want to be able to jump to its bootloader from your main bootloader? For the last option try an entry something like: title Boot second HD root(hd1) chainloader I think that's the right syntax. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 19 20:00:52 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:00:52 +0300 Subject: mid9 commander ? Message-ID: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> That mid9 is just to provoke an answer ;) Somewhat I am confused with that nice tool. I read man - and files listed there are not present on the system. Midnight Commander (I am used to it for 14 years, but am always forgetting details how it works) has quite a lot of nice features I enjoy. For instance, when I choose View on a pdf file - it shows text of pdf file. That means that it "knows" how to parse pdf file and convert it to text. It "knows" as well a lot more, on other files as well. While I am at the moment interested in pdf - I am interested more where to find mc configuration and look into there, and find out what it is doing. Regards, zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 19 21:22:39 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:22:39 -0500 Subject: mid9 commander ? In-Reply-To: <4B05A3F4.7070402-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091119212239.GF15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:00:52PM +0300, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > That mid9 is just to provoke an answer ;) > > Somewhat I am confused with that nice tool. I read man - and files > listed there are not present on the system. > > Midnight Commander (I am used to it for 14 years, but am always > forgetting details how it works) has quite a lot of nice features I > enjoy. > > For instance, when I choose View on a pdf file - it shows text of pdf > file. That means that it "knows" how to parse pdf file and convert it to > text. It "knows" as well a lot more, on other files as well. While I am > at the moment interested in pdf - I am interested more where to find mc > configuration and look into there, and find out what it is doing. I really really hope mc was smart enough to use the mime types system rather than invent its own. At least that way mc can be totally stupid and just do whatever it is told which is how it should be. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 19 21:35:48 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:35:48 +0300 Subject: mid9 commander ? In-Reply-To: <20091119212239.GF15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> <20091119212239.GF15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B05BA34.6020300@gmail.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:00:52PM +0300, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> That mid9 is just to provoke an answer ;) >> >> Somewhat I am confused with that nice tool. I read man - and files >> listed there are not present on the system. >> >> Midnight Commander (I am used to it for 14 years, but am always >> forgetting details how it works) has quite a lot of nice features I >> enjoy. >> >> For instance, when I choose View on a pdf file - it shows text of pdf >> file. That means that it "knows" how to parse pdf file and convert it to >> text. It "knows" as well a lot more, on other files as well. While I am >> at the moment interested in pdf - I am interested more where to find mc >> configuration and look into there, and find out what it is doing. >> > > I really really hope mc was smart enough to use the mime types system > rather than invent its own. At least that way mc can be totally stupid > and just do whatever it is told which is how it should be. > > I can not entirely agree. Right now, we soon are going to have officially one new superstate, European Union (in Russian it is called "JewroSojuz", which unintentionally has a reference to "Jewro" which may reference Jews in Russian, and actually Soviet Union was created de facto by Jews, and also it has that tricky "Sojuz" in its name, which has awful connotation in Polish history). Ok, so, they create that "JewroSojuz" and all the differences between countries will seize to exist, sooner or later. But these differences are so beautiful! May be the MC team wants to preserve differences? Why should they go to slaughter following just one only development way? Actually, MC does both: it can display PDF as a PDF and it can display it as a text. Isnt that nice? I still would like to understand how it displays it as a text. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 19 21:43:00 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:43:00 -0500 Subject: Grub2 setup question In-Reply-To: <4B04BD8C.4060602-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4B04AEFA.2070807@alteeve.com> <4B04BD8C.4060602@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4B05BBE4.50407@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> So I'm back to square one in my understanding of grub with v2. I'm >> hoping someone can help me out and/or point me to a decent tutorial on >> the new system. >> >> I've picked up an eSATA drive that I've installed CentOS5 on. I did >> this with my main Ubuntu 9.10 hard drive unplugged just to be sure >> that I didn't accidentally muck it up. So now I am finished the >> install and back under Ubuntu. >> >> I've trying to sort out how to add the CentOS install to my Ubuntu's >> grub. I dare not randomly try things as I normally would, given the >> potential of an unbootable system. >> >> So, given: >> >> /dev/sda (hd0,x) = Ubuntu >> /dev/sdb (hd1,x) = CentOS >> >> What is the safe way of setting up grub with an option to boot off >> the second drive? > > The annoying part is that with grub2, partitions start at 1 instead of 0 > now, e.g. I have a /boot partition that used to be hd0,0 and is now > hd0,1 with grub2. Take a bit of getting used to. > > With a /boot partition on /dev/sdb that is the first partition on a > disk, entries would look like this (use UUID or LABEL for root= devices > to be sure you are using the right disk(s)): > > menuentry "Ubuntu foo" { > insmod ext2 > set root=(hd0,1) > linux /boot/vmlinuz-foo root=/dev/sda1 > initrd /boot/initrd.img-foo > } > menuentry "Centos foo" { > insmod ext2 > set root=(hd1,1) > linux /boot/vmlinuz-foo root=/dev/sdb1 > initrd /boot/initrd-foo.img > } > > This assumes you have the whole installation on one partition which is > likely not the case? If you have a separate /boot partition, each > linux/initrd entry doesn't need the leading /boot part. And like I said, > use UUIDs or LABELs to keep from getting partitions confused. > > I'd expect your Centos install is using LVM whereas Ubuntu is not, so > you'd probably just end up with a busybox shell once the Centos initrd > got to the point of switchroot failing :) But it is easy to avoid that > problem entirely. > > HTH, Jamon Thanks Jamon, I am trying to avoid directly editing files unless that is what I am supposed to do. The reason being that when a new kernel is released now, the grub tools rerun and regenerate the boot.cfg file. I see that there is now an '/etc/grub.d/' directory that I think I am supposed to work with. After sending the email, I came across a doc that said to run 'update-grub2'. When I do this with the CentOS drive connected, it shows it but when I reboot, the entry isn't in grub: ---------------------------------------------- root at lework:/etc/grub.d# update-grub2 Generating grub.cfg ... Found Debian background: Windbuchencom.tga Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-14-generic Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-14-generic Found memtest86+ image: /boot/memtest86+.bin Found Windows Vista (loader) on /dev/sda1 Found CentOS release 5.3 (Final) on /dev/sdb3 done ---------------------------------------------- 'cat'ing 'grub.cfg' then shows the usual (headers skipped): ---------------------------------------------- ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ### menuentry "Ubuntu, Linux 2.6.31-14-generic" { recordfail=1 if [ -n ${have_grubenv} ]; then save_env recordfail; fi set quiet=1 insmod ext2 set root=(hd0,3) search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set a5597100-8f9c-4dc6-a023-d67f5a5023e6 linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-14-generic root=UUID=a5597100-8f9c-4dc6-a023-d67f5a5023e6 ro quiet splash initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-14-generic } menuentry "Ubuntu, Linux 2.6.31-14-generic (recovery mode)" { recordfail=1 if [ -n ${have_grubenv} ]; then save_env recordfail; fi insmod ext2 set root=(hd0,3) search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set a5597100-8f9c-4dc6-a023-d67f5a5023e6 linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-14-generic root=UUID=a5597100-8f9c-4dc6-a023-d67f5a5023e6 ro single initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.31-14-generic } ### END /etc/grub.d/10_linux ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ ### menuentry "Memory test (memtest86+)" { linux16 /boot/memtest86+.bin } menuentry "Memory test (memtest86+, serial console 115200)" { linux16 /boot/memtest86+.bin console=ttyS0,115200n8 } ### END /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ### menuentry "Windows Vista (loader) (on /dev/sda1)" { insmod ntfs set root=(hd0,1) search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set a418a94d18a91ef4 chainloader +1 } ### END /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/40_custom ### # This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries. Simply type the # menu entries you want to add after this comment. Be careful not to change # the 'exec tail' line above. ### END /etc/grub.d/40_custom ### ---------------------------------------------- If I am to add your suggestion directly, where would be safest? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 19 21:46:49 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:46:49 -0500 Subject: Grub2 setup question In-Reply-To: <20091119152652.GE15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4B04AEFA.2070807@alteeve.com> <20091119152652.GE15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B05BCC9.2000500@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Do you want to install a boot loader on the second drie to make it > bootable, or is it already bootable and you want to be able to jump to > its bootloader from your main bootloader? > > For the last option try an entry something like: > > title Boot second HD > root(hd1) > chainloader > > I think that's the right syntax. Thanks Lennart, In my case, I don't really care, but I guess passing off to the CentOS boot loader (old grub) would be best so that CentOS can change it's grub without me worrying. As I mentioned to Jamon, I am trying to sort out /where/, exactly, you are supposed to muck with the grub2 files safely. I've found a bunch of docs saying what grub2 is meant to be and do, but not much yet on how to actually use it. ... That or I suck at Google. :P Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 19 21:46:55 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:46:55 -0500 Subject: mid9 commander ? In-Reply-To: <4B05BA34.6020300-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> <20091119212239.GF15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B05BA34.6020300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091119214655.GG15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:35:48AM +0300, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > I can not entirely agree. > > Right now, we soon are going to have officially one new superstate, > European Union (in Russian it is called "JewroSojuz", which > unintentionally has a reference to "Jewro" which may reference Jews in > Russian, and actually Soviet Union was created de facto by Jews, and > also it has that tricky "Sojuz" in its name, which has awful connotation > in Polish history). Ok, so, they create that "JewroSojuz" and all the > differences between countries will seize to exist, sooner or later. But > these differences are so beautiful! > > May be the MC team wants to preserve differences? Why should they go to > slaughter following just one only development way? > > Actually, MC does both: it can display PDF as a PDF and it can display > it as a text. Isnt that nice? > > I still would like to understand how it displays it as a text. Probably calling pdttotext which happens to be one of the mime handlers for pdf. The nice thing about using the mime types system is that the user only has to configure once what program to use to handle each filetype, and then every program does that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 19 21:47:26 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:47:26 -0500 Subject: mid9 commander ? In-Reply-To: <20091119212239.GF15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> <20091119212239.GF15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:00:52PM +0300, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> >> That mid9 is just to provoke an answer ;) >> >> Somewhat I am confused with that nice tool. I read man - and files >> listed there are not present on the system. >> >> Midnight Commander (I am used to it for 14 years, but am always >> forgetting details how it works) has quite a lot of nice features I >> enjoy. >> >> For instance, when I choose View on a pdf file - it shows text of pdf >> file. That means that it "knows" how to parse pdf file and convert it to >> text. It "knows" as well a lot more, on other files as well. While I am >> at the moment interested in pdf - I am interested more where to find mc >> configuration and look into there, and find out what it is doing. > > I really really hope mc was smart enough to use the mime types system > rather than invent its own. ?At least that way mc can be totally stupid > and just do whatever it is told which is how it should be. It doesn't link to libmagic, or to any MIME libraries, so I don't imagine so. It's a Miguel de Icaza creation, so it is pretty likely to slavishly duplicate Microsoft things, that being his typical habit... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach - "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/marie_von_ebnereschenbac.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 19 21:48:37 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:48:37 -0500 Subject: mid9 commander ? In-Reply-To: References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> <20091119212239.GF15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20091119214837.GH15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 04:47:26PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > It doesn't link to libmagic, or to any MIME libraries, so I don't imagine so. > > It's a Miguel de Icaza creation, so it is pretty likely to slavishly > duplicate Microsoft things, that being his typical habit... Well I personally never saw anything to like about mc. I prefer a working shell to do stuff. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 20 14:10:28 2009 From: lists-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw at public.gmane.org (Matt London) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:10:28 -0500 Subject: mid9 commander ? In-Reply-To: <20091119212239.GF15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> <20091119212239.GF15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B06A354.2070309@knm.org.uk> I remember setting a whole bunch of custom stuff up in mc back in the 90s and from looking now, it doesn't seem to have changed all that much. I don't know if it does mime-type checking, but it does look at file extensions. Check out /usr/share/mc/mc.ext (at least it's /usr/share/mc/ on SLED) - it specifies how to treat different file types. -- Matt Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:00:52PM +0300, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> That mid9 is just to provoke an answer ;) >> >> Somewhat I am confused with that nice tool. I read man - and files >> listed there are not present on the system. >> >> Midnight Commander (I am used to it for 14 years, but am always >> forgetting details how it works) has quite a lot of nice features I >> enjoy. >> >> For instance, when I choose View on a pdf file - it shows text of pdf >> file. That means that it "knows" how to parse pdf file and convert it to >> text. It "knows" as well a lot more, on other files as well. While I am >> at the moment interested in pdf - I am interested more where to find mc >> configuration and look into there, and find out what it is doing. >> > > I really really hope mc was smart enough to use the mime types system > rather than invent its own. At least that way mc can be totally stupid > and just do whatever it is told which is how it should be. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 20 14:13:09 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:13:09 +0300 Subject: mid9 commander ? In-Reply-To: <4B06A354.2070309-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw@public.gmane.org> References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> <20091119212239.GF15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B06A354.2070309@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: <4B06A3F5.3070800@gmail.com> Matt London wrote: > I remember setting a whole bunch of custom stuff up in mc back in the > 90s and from looking now, it doesn't seem to have changed all that much. > > I don't know if it does mime-type checking, but it does look at file > extensions. > > Check out /usr/share/mc/mc.ext (at least it's /usr/share/mc/ on SLED) - > it specifies how to treat different file types. > On my CentOS 5.2 the file is /etc/mc/mc.ext Indeed, it calls pdftotext, as Lennart suggested. I checked that by comparing with output from pdftotext. It does not seem to use mime types, at least not in this case. zb./ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 20 15:12:49 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:12:49 -0500 Subject: mid9 commander ? In-Reply-To: <4B06A354.2070309-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw@public.gmane.org> References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> <20091119212239.GF15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B06A354.2070309@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: <20091120151249.GI15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 09:10:28AM -0500, Matt London wrote: > I remember setting a whole bunch of custom stuff up in mc back in the > 90s and from looking now, it doesn't seem to have changed all that much. > > I don't know if it does mime-type checking, but it does look at file > extensions. > > Check out /usr/share/mc/mc.ext (at least it's /usr/share/mc/ on SLED) - > it specifies how to treat different file types. I guess it really is a clone of a dos application. Bugs and stupid designs and all. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 20 15:30:49 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:30:49 -0500 Subject: Grub2 setup question In-Reply-To: <4B05BBE4.50407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B04AEFA.2070807@alteeve.com> <4B04BD8C.4060602@utoronto.ca> <4B05BBE4.50407@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4B06B629.1000404@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Thanks Jamon, > > I am trying to avoid directly editing files unless that is what I am > supposed to do. The reason being that when a new kernel is released now, > the grub tools rerun and regenerate the boot.cfg file. I see that there > is now an '/etc/grub.d/' directory that I think I am supposed to work with. > > After sending the email, I came across a doc that said to run > 'update-grub2'. When I do this with the CentOS drive connected, it shows > it but when I reboot, the entry isn't in grub: > ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/40_custom ### > # This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries. Simply > type the > # menu entries you want to add after this comment. Be careful not to > change > # the 'exec tail' line above. > ### END /etc/grub.d/40_custom ### > ---------------------------------------------- > > If I am to add your suggestion directly, where would be safest? Ah I understand. The Debian (or Grub, I'm not sure) packagers were rather prescient and created /etc/grub.d/40_custom for just that purpose. Take a look: jamon at phaedrus: cat /etc/grub.d/40_custom #!/bin/sh exec tail -n +3 $0 # This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries. Simply # type the menu entries you want to add after this comment. Be # careful not to change the 'exec tail' line above. So try putting your suitable edited Centos menuentry in there: menuentry "Centos 5.3" { insmod ext2 set root=(hd1,3) linux /boot/vmlinuz-foo root=/dev/sdb3 initrd /boot/initrd-foo.img } Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 20 15:42:57 2009 From: lists-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw at public.gmane.org (Matt London) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:42:57 -0500 Subject: mid9 commander ? In-Reply-To: <20091120151249.GI15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> <20091119212239.GF15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B06A354.2070309@knm.org.uk> <20091120151249.GI15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B06B901.6060500@knm.org.uk> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 09:10:28AM -0500, Matt London wrote: > >> I remember setting a whole bunch of custom stuff up in mc back in the >> 90s and from looking now, it doesn't seem to have changed all that much. >> >> I don't know if it does mime-type checking, but it does look at file >> extensions. >> >> Check out /usr/share/mc/mc.ext (at least it's /usr/share/mc/ on SLED) - >> it specifies how to treat different file types. >> > > I guess it really is a clone of a dos application. Bugs and stupid > designs and all. :) > > Yup - but Norton Commander was a damn handy DOS application which a lot of people used and mc has been around for an awfully long time - it's just not changed all that much :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 20 15:56:45 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:56:45 -0500 Subject: mid9 commander ? In-Reply-To: <4B06A354.2070309-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw@public.gmane.org> References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> <20091119212239.GF15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B06A354.2070309@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Matt London wrote: > I remember setting a whole bunch of custom stuff up in mc back in the > 90s and from looking now, it doesn't seem to have changed all that much. > > I don't know if it does mime-type checking, but it does look at file > extensions. > > Check out /usr/share/mc/mc.ext (at least it's /usr/share/mc/ on SLED) - > it specifies how to treat different file types. Oh, cool. (NOT!) It implements a pattern matching language to determine file type based on the name... ... when *VASTLY* more accurate results would be gotten by using libmagic to match based on contents, using a commonly available service. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Pablo Picasso - "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 20 16:03:13 2009 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:03:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: mid9 commander ? In-Reply-To: <4B06B901.6060500-aILacZ9cc/a1Qrn1Bg8BZw@public.gmane.org> References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> <20091119212239.GF15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B06A354.2070309@knm.org.uk> <20091120151249.GI15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B06B901.6060500@knm.org.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Matt London wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 09:10:28AM -0500, Matt London wrote: > > > >> I remember setting a whole bunch of custom stuff up in mc back in the > >> 90s and from looking now, it doesn't seem to have changed all that much. > >> > >> I don't know if it does mime-type checking, but it does look at file > >> extensions. > >> > >> Check out /usr/share/mc/mc.ext (at least it's /usr/share/mc/ on SLED) - > >> it specifies how to treat different file types. > >> > > > > I guess it really is a clone of a dos application. Bugs and stupid > > designs and all. :) > > Yup - but Norton Commander was a damn handy DOS application which a lot > of people used and mc has been around for an awfully long time - it's > just not changed all that much :) On a systems without any serious command-line tools, it made sense. On a real OS, it doesn't. mc has all of the drawbacks of a GUI with none of the advantages. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 21 21:00:30 2009 From: slacker-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:00:30 +0100 Subject: mid9 commander ? In-Reply-To: <4B05A3F4.7070402-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> (Zbigniew Koziol's message of "Thu\, 19 Nov 2009 23\:00\:52 +0300") References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87aayfbnkh.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Zbigniew Koziol a ?crit profondement: | That mid9 is just to provoke an answer ;) | | Somewhat I am confused with that nice tool. I read man - and files | listed there are not present on the system. | Personally I prefer File Runner It's not been updated for quite some time, and is an X11 only application, but it's quite easily configurable. Details: http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Environment/File-managers/FileRunner-15976.shtml -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 21 23:11:38 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:11:38 +0300 Subject: Cadence, Synopsys, Comsol In-Reply-To: <87aayfbnkh.fsf-4/PLUo9XfK9lY98wAZ3ymN+n+qDOcVZb@public.gmane.org> References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> <87aayfbnkh.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> Message-ID: <4B0873AA.8010701@gmail.com> I changed the subject. Be forgiving. No, I do not care about FileRunner, dear virtual friend. As very few of you on this list may remember, I am now in Russia working as a physicist at university (why I was not able to to find a research job related to physics in f*cken Canada during my 145 years of living there I will never ever understand). I work with Cadence, Synopsys TCAD, Comsol Multiphysics. Is there by small chance anyone to whom these software names sound familiar? These are outstanding software packages, not free unfortunately. They are difficult to learn, very complex, powerful, but difficult. They run on Linux. I would like to exchange emails with someone involved in these. Slack Rat wrote: > Personally I prefer File Runner > > It's not been updated for quite some time, and is an X11 only > application, but it's quite easily configurable. > > Details: > http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Environment/File-managers/FileRunner-15976.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 22 02:45:41 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:45:41 -0800 Subject: Serial IR for Linux Message-ID: <01194031-0B9F-4B8E-8C10-5E6D7CCB55FD@gmail.com> Does anyone know brands+models of serial IR dongles that work as LIRC input device available online (somewhere I can order from or on eBay etc)? (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 22 05:42:23 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:42:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: YouTube stopping unlicenced TV access Message-ID: Apparently there are two interfaces to YouTube: flash and "API". Apparently Terms Of Service forbid unlicensed devices from using the API. Now they (YouTube/Google) are enforcing this restriction so, for example, Popcorn Hour can no longer use it. WDTV uses the same API. I don't know if they are licensed. http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/20/youtube-pulls-a-hulu-yanking-api-access-from-popcorn-hour-ot/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+weblogsinc%2Fengadget+%28Engadget%29 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 22 12:43:24 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:43:24 -0500 Subject: Serial IR for Linux In-Reply-To: <01194031-0B9F-4B8E-8C10-5E6D7CCB55FD-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <01194031-0B9F-4B8E-8C10-5E6D7CCB55FD@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/21/09, Aviss,Tyler wrote: > Does anyone know brands+models of serial IR dongles that work as LIRC > input device available online (somewhere I can order from or on eBay > etc)? Not hard to build a serial IR dongle that works with LIRC as I proved here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8811 All the parts needed are available locally. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 00:42:09 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:42:09 -0500 Subject: questions about powerpc / imac and usb wireless adapters Message-ID: <32f6a8880911221642r418ee425l9d299c5855ea95b0@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, I have Debian Linux and Mac OSX tiger on an IMAC, was wondering if you guys know of a cheap USB wireless adapter that will work with Linux on the OLD IMACS (the colour huge crt display ones) If not linux Mac OSX im thinking it'll be easier to find drivers for the linux operating system. -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 16:37:27 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:37:27 -0500 Subject: google wave Message-ID: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> I suspect everyone who wants one, has one. Just in case though, I got eight google wave invites. Let me know if any of you would still like one. Madi, who has been largely under-whelmed with gWave, tbh. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 16:42:41 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:42:41 -0500 Subject: Bandwidth problem... upload at 1MB/s, server sees 10MB/s Message-ID: <4B0ABB81.8040406@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've got a weird problem on my server... When I upload to it from my workstation, I get about 1MB/s up. However, if I watch the server, it's seeing 10MB/s... As soon as I stop my upload, the bandwidth on the server drops to nearly nothing, so I know it's not being caused by other traffic. For example, from my laptop I see: digimer at lework:~/dvd_rip$ scp erin_vol1.avi ERIN_VOL1.iso root-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org:/backups/iso/tjls/ erin_vol1.avi 67% 382MB 1.0MB/s 02:59 ETA And on the server I see: Interface Received Sent Total Kbps Kbps Kbps eth0 9761.36 231.84 9993.12 lo 120.88 120.88 241.68 All 9882.24 352.72 10234.80 Press 'q' to quit... Elapsed time: 0 hrs, 7 mins, 18 s It's Debian 5 stable, and the links between are: Laptop -> wireless -> switch -> main switch -> server This should support much higher speeds, and I've gotten a full 10MB/s in the past. Thanks for any help or clues! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 16:51:50 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:51:50 -0500 Subject: questions about powerpc / imac and usb wireless adapters In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880911221642r418ee425l9d299c5855ea95b0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880911221642r418ee425l9d299c5855ea95b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091123165150.GJ15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 07:42:09PM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I have Debian Linux and Mac OSX tiger on an IMAC, was wondering if you > guys know of a cheap USB wireless adapter that will work with Linux on > the OLD IMACS (the colour huge crt display ones) > > If not linux Mac OSX im thinking it'll be easier to find drivers for > the linux operating system. I suspect one of the ralink based devices should work. http://ralink.rapla.net/ http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 16:52:37 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:52:37 -0500 Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: <4B0ABA47.6020605-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20091123165237.GK15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:37:27AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > I suspect everyone who wants one, has one. Just in case though, I got > eight google wave invites. Let me know if any of you would still like > one. > > Madi, who has been largely under-whelmed with gWave, tbh. None of what I have heard about it so far has made me even care enough to look up any more info. Does it do anything useful? Should I care? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 16:54:19 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:54:19 -0500 Subject: Bandwidth problem... upload at 1MB/s, server sees 10MB/s In-Reply-To: <4B0ABB81.8040406-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABB81.8040406@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20091123165419.GL15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:42:41AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've got a weird problem on my server... When I upload to it from my > workstation, I get about 1MB/s up. However, if I watch the server, it's > seeing 10MB/s... As soon as I stop my upload, the bandwidth on the > server drops to nearly nothing, so I know it's not being caused by other > traffic. > > For example, from my laptop I see: > > digimer at lework:~/dvd_rip$ scp erin_vol1.avi ERIN_VOL1.iso > root-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org:/backups/iso/tjls/ > erin_vol1.avi 67% 382MB 1.0MB/s 02:59 ETA So 1.0MB/s (mega bytes per second). > And on the server I see: > > Interface Received Sent Total > Kbps Kbps Kbps Does Kbps by any chance mean kilo bits per second? > > eth0 9761.36 231.84 9993.12 > > lo 120.88 120.88 241.68 > > All 9882.24 352.72 10234.80 > > Press 'q' to quit... Elapsed time: 0 hrs, 7 mins, 18 s > > It's Debian 5 stable, and the links between are: > > Laptop -> wireless -> switch -> main switch -> server > > This should support much higher speeds, and I've gotten a full 10MB/s > in the past. > > Thanks for any help or clues! Are you expecting 10 megabytes or megabits per second? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 17:05:50 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:05:50 -0500 Subject: Bandwidth problem... upload at 1MB/s, server sees 10MB/s In-Reply-To: <20091123165419.GL15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABB81.8040406@alteeve.com> <20091123165419.GL15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B0AC0EE.60904@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:42:41AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I've got a weird problem on my server... When I upload to it from my >> workstation, I get about 1MB/s up. However, if I watch the server, it's >> seeing 10MB/s... As soon as I stop my upload, the bandwidth on the >> server drops to nearly nothing, so I know it's not being caused by other >> traffic. >> >> For example, from my laptop I see: >> >> digimer at lework:~/dvd_rip$ scp erin_vol1.avi ERIN_VOL1.iso >> root-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org:/backups/iso/tjls/ >> erin_vol1.avi 67% 382MB 1.0MB/s 02:59 ETA > > So 1.0MB/s (mega bytes per second). > >> And on the server I see: >> >> Interface Received Sent Total >> Kbps Kbps Kbps > > Does Kbps by any chance mean kilo bits per second? >> eth0 9761.36 231.84 9993.12 >> >> lo 120.88 120.88 241.68 >> >> All 9882.24 352.72 10234.80 >> >> Press 'q' to quit... Elapsed time: 0 hrs, 7 mins, 18 s >> >> It's Debian 5 stable, and the links between are: >> >> Laptop -> wireless -> switch -> main switch -> server >> >> This should support much higher speeds, and I've gotten a full 10MB/s >> in the past. >> >> Thanks for any help or clues! > > Are you expecting 10 megabytes or megabits per second? That's a darn fine, and obvious, question that I did not think to ask myself. I can't check just now, but I will in a few minutes. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 17:07:25 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:07:25 -0500 Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: <20091123165237.GK15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> <20091123165237.GK15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B0AC14D.2030504@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:37:27AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> I suspect everyone who wants one, has one. Just in case though, I got >> eight google wave invites. Let me know if any of you would still like >> one. >> >> Madi, who has been largely under-whelmed with gWave, tbh. > > None of what I have heard about it so far has made me even care enough > to look up any more info. > > Does it do anything useful? Should I care? Well, see, that's just it. I don't yet really see how it's much more than webmail with extended support for videos, IMs, etc. I'm going on the assumption that it is a new platform that Google hopes to expand on. For that reason, I will keep my eye on it, but I am not exactly rushing out to cancel my normal email accounts. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 17:13:00 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:13:00 -0500 Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: <20091123165237.GK15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> <20091123165237.GK15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Maybe? I am not sure yet. We have been posting the GTALUG meetings to it for the past month or two (search "with:public tag:gtalug"). It looks like a really cool communication device but I only know a hand full of people and know of them for work. I like what Mingle (a ticket tracker) is doing with it http://bit.ly/7s9Q4Z . But for HTTP/HTML/XMPP nerds (i.e. Web Developers) like myself, Google Wave shows us a glims into the future of respect. For to long have we been called "fake programmers" Google Wave shows the world that we are programmers. With WebKit's crusades for better web standards soon we will have web applications that are just like desktop applications. On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:37:27AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> I suspect everyone who wants one, has one. Just in case though, I got >> eight google wave invites. Let me know if any of you would still like >> one. >> >> Madi, who has been largely under-whelmed with gWave, tbh. > > None of what I have heard about it so far has made me even care enough > to look up any more info. > > Does it do anything useful? ?Should I care? > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 17:19:33 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:19:33 -0500 Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: <4B0AC14D.2030504-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> <20091123165237.GK15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0AC14D.2030504@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4B0AC425.9000904@gmail.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:37:27AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> I suspect everyone who wants one, has one. Just in case though, I >>> got eight google wave invites. Let me know if any of you would still >>> like one. >>> >>> Madi, who has been largely under-whelmed with gWave, tbh. >> >> None of what I have heard about it so far has made me even care enough >> to look up any more info. >> >> Does it do anything useful? Should I care? > > Well, see, that's just it. I don't yet really see how it's much more > than webmail with extended support for videos, IMs, etc. I'm going on > the assumption that it is a new platform that Google hopes to expand on. > For that reason, I will keep my eye on it, but I am not exactly rushing > out to cancel my normal email accounts. Madison, can you send me an invite? :-) I'm very curious about what Google came up with. It sounds like a reasonable project collaboration tool. Especially for team-efforts, like change activities on large IT systems... without any privacy. I know... I'm grasping at what it could be good for too. Apparently, it's good for playing D&D :-) -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 17:45:21 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:45:21 -0500 Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: <4B0AC425.9000904-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> <20091123165237.GK15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0AC14D.2030504@alteeve.com> <4B0AC425.9000904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0ACA31.8000805@alteeve.com> Mike Kallies wrote: > Madison, can you send me an invite? :-) > > I'm very curious about what Google came up with. > > It sounds like a reasonable project collaboration tool. Especially for > team-efforts, like change activities on large IT systems... without any > privacy. > > I know... I'm grasping at what it could be good for too. Apparently, > it's good for playing D&D :-) > > > > -Mike Lol! Sent. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 17:46:17 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:46:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Bandwidth problem... upload at 1MB/s, server sees 10MB/s In-Reply-To: <4B0AC0EE.60904-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABB81.8040406@alteeve.com> <20091123165419.GL15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0AC0EE.60904@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Nov 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Are you expecting 10 megabytes or megabits per second? > > That's a darn fine, and obvious, question that I did not think to ask myself. > I can't check just now, but I will in a few minutes. If you want to run the test again I recommend you use 'iperf'. It's pre-packaged in some distros. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy http://www.practicalsysadmin.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 18:07:56 2009 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:07:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: LoneCoder: Dark Architecture Message-ID: This month's Lone Coder article. Here's a snippet. "...So if good developers understand good design, what is the difference between a software developer, a software engineer, and a sotware (or application) architect and how did they relate to design? I asked a software developer. "An IT Architect", he said, "is a person who don't actually know how to code, just what it should look like." Those who can, develop. Those who can't develop, engineer. Those who can't engineer, architect. So did design play no role in any of these positions?..." http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_november_2009.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 18:26:41 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:26:41 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? Message-ID: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> Interesting read, here is a small sample of the article: "Former Vice President Al Gore?s visit to Portland today and tomorrow has prompted some Nobel Peace Prize thoughts, and in Oregon the idea of nominating a Northwesterner. The prospect shot around the Portland-area Linux circles (drawing some debate as well as approval as it did), starting with this email from Keith Lofstrom: "Since the Nobel Peace Prize is often given to politicians, some disagree with the choices. But it is often given to non-politicians who create international efforts to change the world for the better. "Look at the massive international efforts represented by SC09, and realize that much of it started from the work of a 21[-year-old] Finnish college student named after 1962 Nobel Peace Prize winner Linus Pauling. It would be fitting to honor that international effort by giving a Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds, perhaps in 2011 on the 20th anniversary of the August 1991 Linux announcement, or in 2012 on the 50th anniversary of Pauling?s award." http://www.ridenbaugh.com/index.php/2009/11/18/a-northwest-nobel-option/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 18:31:00 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:31:00 -0500 Subject: Bandwidth problem... upload at 1MB/s, server sees 10MB/s In-Reply-To: <20091123165419.GL15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABB81.8040406@alteeve.com> <20091123165419.GL15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B0AD4E4.6040006@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:42:41AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I've got a weird problem on my server... When I upload to it from my >> workstation, I get about 1MB/s up. However, if I watch the server, it's >> seeing 10MB/s... As soon as I stop my upload, the bandwidth on the >> server drops to nearly nothing, so I know it's not being caused by other >> traffic. >> >> For example, from my laptop I see: >> >> digimer at lework:~/dvd_rip$ scp erin_vol1.avi ERIN_VOL1.iso >> root-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org:/backups/iso/tjls/ >> erin_vol1.avi 67% 382MB 1.0MB/s 02:59 ETA > > So 1.0MB/s (mega bytes per second). > >> And on the server I see: >> >> Interface Received Sent Total >> Kbps Kbps Kbps > > Does Kbps by any chance mean kilo bits per second? >> eth0 9761.36 231.84 9993.12 >> >> lo 120.88 120.88 241.68 >> >> All 9882.24 352.72 10234.80 >> >> Press 'q' to quit... Elapsed time: 0 hrs, 7 mins, 18 s >> >> It's Debian 5 stable, and the links between are: >> >> Laptop -> wireless -> switch -> main switch -> server >> >> This should support much higher speeds, and I've gotten a full 10MB/s >> in the past. >> >> Thanks for any help or clues! > > Are you expecting 10 megabytes or megabits per second? > I tracked it down, I think, to an internal network problem. Thanks! madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 19:26:18 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:26:18 -0500 Subject: questions about powerpc / imac and usb wireless adapters In-Reply-To: <20091123165150.GJ15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880911221642r418ee425l9d299c5855ea95b0@mail.gmail.com> <20091123165150.GJ15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880911231126w75276ebdy183a218ab194f1c3@mail.gmail.com> Thank you Len, That information was a lot of help, I'll see if I can pick up one of those chipsets. On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 07:42:09PM -0500, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> I have Debian Linux and Mac OSX tiger on an IMAC, was wondering if you >> guys know of a cheap USB wireless adapter that will work with Linux on >> the OLD IMACS (the colour huge crt display ones) >> >> If not linux Mac OSX im thinking it'll be easier to find drivers for >> the linux operating system. > > I suspect one of the ralink based devices should work. > > http://ralink.rapla.net/ > > http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 19:53:57 2009 From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jing) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:53:57 -0500 Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: <4B0ABA47.6020605-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Hi Madison, If you still have invites, I'd like one as well. Thanks! -Jing On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > I suspect everyone who wants one, has one. Just in case though, I got eight > google wave invites. Let me know if any of you would still like one. > > Madi, who has been largely under-whelmed with gWave, tbh. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 20:12:35 2009 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:12:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: <4B0ABA47.6020605-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <423eaef5072870910130c72e32159cea.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> > I suspect everyone who wants one, has one. Just in case though, I got > eight google wave invites. Let me know if any of you would still like one. > > Madi, who has been largely under-whelmed with gWave, tbh. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I'll take one if you have any left. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 20:35:20 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:35:20 -0500 Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4B0AF208.3050602@alteeve.com> jing wrote: > Hi Madison, > > If you still have invites, I'd like one as well. > > Thanks! > -Jing Not a prob, and sent. :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 20:40:43 2009 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:40:43 -0500 Subject: Perl expert needed Message-ID: <49D3A5EF-D65B-4939-9342-B4C144745C42@gmail.com> Hi there, I've been off-list for a while, so I hope this finds all of you well. I'm a web developer, and I'm putting the final revisions on my new book, Web Development for the Macintosh, which will be published by Wiley in March of 2010. http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0470533994.html I just received an email from my editor today. One of his other books, Perl and Apache CGI: Your visual blueprint for developing dynamic Web content, has hit an unexpected snag: the author has had to leave the project due to a loss in his family. My editor has asked if I or someone I know can step in to finish this book. I'm told the book has a "good percentage" done, but there clearly does need to be someone who knows this stuff to step in, take on the existing table of contents, and write the remaining content. If anyone feels qualified to pursue this, contact me directly off-list and I'll fill you in on what small additional details that I have. Assuming you and I agree that you both have the skill and the time (this last is crucial in this business), I'll arrange an introduction with my editor. Cheers, Aaron.-- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 20:43:44 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:43:44 -0500 Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: <423eaef5072870910130c72e32159cea.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> <423eaef5072870910130c72e32159cea.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <4B0AF400.4090507@alteeve.com> Jason Carson wrote: >> I suspect everyone who wants one, has one. Just in case though, I got >> eight google wave invites. Let me know if any of you would still like one. >> >> Madi, who has been largely under-whelmed with gWave, tbh. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > I'll take one if you have any left. Sent, and one left. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 21:21:49 2009 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:21:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: <4B0AF400.4090507-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> <423eaef5072870910130c72e32159cea.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <4B0AF400.4090507@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <459af22490570678257443d1d5781f07.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> > Jason Carson wrote: >>> I suspect everyone who wants one, has one. Just in case though, I got >>> eight google wave invites. Let me know if any of you would still like >>> one. >>> >>> Madi, who has been largely under-whelmed with gWave, tbh. >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> I'll take one if you have any left. > > Sent, and one left. > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Just received the invite, thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 23:15:15 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:15:15 -0500 Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: <4B0ABA47.6020605-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > I suspect everyone who wants one, has one. Just in case though, I got eight > google wave invites. Let me know if any of you would still like one. His may all be gone; I just received my 8 invites, so folks that are interested might contact me directly... cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe9fmgfxC/sS/w at public.gmane.org I'll be more than happy to add you to the "metaWave" which discusses whether or not it's actually of any use... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Pablo Picasso - "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 23 23:22:45 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:22:45 -0500 Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4B0B1945.9000302@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: >> I suspect everyone who wants one, has one. Just in case though, I got eight >> google wave invites. Let me know if any of you would still like one. > > His may all be gone; I just received my 8 invites, so folks that are > interested might contact me directly... cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe9fmgfxC/sS/w at public.gmane.org > > I'll be more than happy to add you to the "metaWave" which discusses > whether or not it's actually of any use... A professor of mine once said that invention was the mother of necessity. Give it a couple years.. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 00:24:13 2009 From: martjh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Martin) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:24:13 -0500 Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: <4B0B1945.9000302-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> <4B0B1945.9000302@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <250f3b850911231624w326fcf17v700c7d12cc24b002@mail.gmail.com> I'd love one. Thanks if you can spare one. -j On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: >> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> >>> I suspect everyone who wants one, has one. Just in case though, I got >>> eight >>> google wave invites. Let me know if any of you would still like one. >> >> His may all be gone; I just received my 8 invites, so folks that are >> interested might contact me directly... ?cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe9fmgfxC/sS/w at public.gmane.org >> >> I'll be more than happy to add you to the "metaWave" which discusses >> whether or not it's actually of any use... > > A professor of mine once said that invention was the mother of necessity. > Give it a couple years.. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 01:32:44 2009 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:32:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> > Interesting read, here is a small sample of the article: > > "Former Vice President Al Gore???s visit to Portland today and tomorrow > has prompted some Nobel Peace Prize thoughts, and in Oregon the idea > of nominating a Northwesterner. The prospect shot around the > Portland-area Linux circles (drawing some debate as well as approval > as it did), starting with this email from Keith Lofstrom: > > "Since the Nobel Peace Prize is often given to politicians, some > disagree with the choices. But it is often given to non-politicians > who create international efforts to change the world for the better. > > "Look at the massive international efforts represented by SC09, and > realize that much of it started from the work of a 21[-year-old] > Finnish college student named after 1962 Nobel Peace Prize winner > Linus Pauling. It would be fitting to honor that international effort > by giving a Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds, perhaps in 2011 on the 20th > anniversary of the August 1991 Linux announcement, or in 2012 on the > 50th anniversary of Pauling???s award." > > http://www.ridenbaugh.com/index.php/2009/11/18/a-northwest-nobel-option/ > > -- > Sincerely, > > Michael Lauzon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Not to diminish Torvalds's work but what about Richard Stallman as a candidate for a Nobel Peace Prize, he did after all create the GPL and Free Software Foundation and has worked on the tools that form a GNU/Linux system. The notion of a totally free operating system was his idea and that has what has "changed the world". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 05:50:55 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:50:55 -0500 Subject: google wave In-Reply-To: <250f3b850911231624w326fcf17v700c7d12cc24b002-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4B0ABA47.6020605@alteeve.com> <4B0B1945.9000302@utoronto.ca> <250f3b850911231624w326fcf17v700c7d12cc24b002@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2009-11-23, John Martin wrote: > I'd love one. Thanks if you can spare one. -j Sent. It may take time for it to get set up.... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 15:31:39 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:31:39 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 08:32:44PM -0500, Jason Carson wrote: > > Interesting read, here is a small sample of the article: > > > > "Former Vice President Al Gore???s visit to Portland today and tomorrow > > has prompted some Nobel Peace Prize thoughts, and in Oregon the idea > > of nominating a Northwesterner. The prospect shot around the > > Portland-area Linux circles (drawing some debate as well as approval > > as it did), starting with this email from Keith Lofstrom: > > > > "Since the Nobel Peace Prize is often given to politicians, some > > disagree with the choices. But it is often given to non-politicians > > who create international efforts to change the world for the better. > > > > "Look at the massive international efforts represented by SC09, and > > realize that much of it started from the work of a 21[-year-old] > > Finnish college student named after 1962 Nobel Peace Prize winner > > Linus Pauling. It would be fitting to honor that international effort > > by giving a Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds, perhaps in 2011 on the 20th > > anniversary of the August 1991 Linux announcement, or in 2012 on the > > 50th anniversary of Pauling???s award." > > > > http://www.ridenbaugh.com/index.php/2009/11/18/a-northwest-nobel-option/ > > > > -- > > Sincerely, > > > > Michael Lauzon > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > Not to diminish Torvalds's work but what about Richard Stallman as a > candidate for a Nobel Peace Prize, he did after all create the GPL and > Free Software Foundation and has worked on the tools that form a GNU/Linux > system. The notion of a totally free operating system was his idea and > that has what has "changed the world". Hmm, RMS and peace price. Not sure those go together. He has created a lot of hostility too. A lot of people don't like where the FSF is trying to go (GFDL, GPLv3 for example). Linus makes a lot more sense to me. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 15:54:27 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:54:27 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <20091124153139.GM15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 08:32:44PM -0500, Jason Carson wrote: >> Not to diminish Torvalds's work but what about Richard Stallman as a >> candidate for a Nobel Peace Prize, he did after all create the GPL and >> Free Software Foundation and has worked on the tools that form a GNU/Linux >> system. The notion of a totally free operating system was his idea and >> that has what has "changed the world". > > Hmm, RMS and peace price. Not sure those go together. He has created > a lot of hostility too. Several people who did a lot worse than create a little animosity were recipients of the prize. This should not rule him out. > > A lot of people don't like where the FSF is trying to go (GFDL, GPLv3 > for example). > And a lot of people do like it. The opening keynote at LinuxFest was very informative regarding GPLv3. Did you see it? The FSF does a hell of a lot for OSS, and they, with Stallman, where the ones that got the whole ball rolling. > Linus makes a lot more sense to me. > Linus is a pragmatist who only uses OS and GPL because it suits his purpose. His only concern is with Linux. He does not, that I've seen, concern himself very much with the state of the OS community beyond that. He has far less vision and is far less ethically motivated than Stallman. Between the two of them, Stallman is by far the most deserving. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:06:14 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:06:14 +0300 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <20091124153139.GM15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> >>> Interesting read, here is a small sample of the article: >>> >>> "Former Vice President Al Gore???s visit to Portland today and tomorrow >>> has prompted some Nobel Peace Prize thoughts, and in Oregon the idea >>> of nominating a Northwesterner. The prospect shot around the >>> Portland-area Linux circles (drawing some debate as well as approval >>> as it did), starting with this email from Keith Lofstrom: >>> >>> "Since the Nobel Peace Prize is often given to politicians, some >>> disagree with the choices. But it is often given to non-politicians >>> who create international efforts to change the world for the better. >>> >>> "Look at the massive international efforts represented by SC09, and >>> realize that much of it started from the work of a 21[-year-old] >>> Finnish college student named after 1962 Nobel Peace Prize winner >>> Linus Pauling. It would be fitting to honor that international effort >>> by giving a Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds, perhaps in 2011 on the 20th >>> anniversary of the August 1991 Linux announcement, or in 2012 on the >>> 50th anniversary of Pauling???s award." >>> >>> http://www.ridenbaugh.com/index.php/2009/11/18/a-northwest-nobel-option/ >>> >>> -- >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Michael Lauzon >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >>> >> Not to diminish Torvalds's work but what about Richard Stallman as a >> candidate for a Nobel Peace Prize, he did after all create the GPL and >> Free Software Foundation and has worked on the tools that form a GNU/Linux >> system. The notion of a totally free operating system was his idea and >> that has what has "changed the world". >> > > Hmm, RMS and peace price. Not sure those go together. He has created > a lot of hostility too. > And what sense makes putting Linus into the same bag as Obama, killer or unborn and hater of Christianity? Are you insane? Nobel piss prize got degenerated. Polish Walesa got it for supposedly creating Solidarity but he was carried on by secret service police. You people do not know that or what? Al Gore? That idiot who wants with patents and full pockets stop tropical storms? Again, insane. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:14:45 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:14:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Cadence, Synopsys, Comsol References: <4B05A3F4.7070402@gmail.com> <87aayfbnkh.fsf@darkstar.azurservers.com> <4B0873AA.8010701@gmail.com> Message-ID: http://www.ema-eda.com/forums/cadenceforum.aspx P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:26:58 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:26:58 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0476.6050804-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >>>> Interesting read, here is a small sample of the article: >>>> >>>> "Former Vice President Al Gore???s visit to Portland today and >>>> tomorrow >>>> has prompted some Nobel Peace Prize thoughts, and in Oregon the idea >>>> of nominating a Northwesterner. The prospect shot around the >>>> Portland-area Linux circles (drawing some debate as well as approval >>>> as it did), starting with this email from Keith Lofstrom: >>>> >>>> "Since the Nobel Peace Prize is often given to politicians, some >>>> disagree with the choices. But it is often given to non-politicians >>>> who create international efforts to change the world for the better. >>>> >>>> "Look at the massive international efforts represented by SC09, and >>>> realize that much of it started from the work of a 21[-year-old] >>>> Finnish college student named after 1962 Nobel Peace Prize winner >>>> Linus Pauling. It would be fitting to honor that international effort >>>> by giving a Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds, perhaps in 2011 on the 20th >>>> anniversary of the August 1991 Linux announcement, or in 2012 on the >>>> 50th anniversary of Pauling???s award." >>>> >>>> http://www.ridenbaugh.com/index.php/2009/11/18/a-northwest-nobel-option/ >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Michael Lauzon >>>> -- >>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>> >>> Not to diminish Torvalds's work but what about Richard Stallman as a >>> candidate for a Nobel Peace Prize, he did after all create the GPL and >>> Free Software Foundation and has worked on the tools that form a >>> GNU/Linux >>> system. The notion of a totally free operating system was his idea and >>> that has what has "changed the world". >> >> Hmm, RMS and peace price. Not sure those go together. He has created >> a lot of hostility too. > And what sense makes putting Linus into the same bag as Obama, killer > or unborn and hater of Christianity? Anyone who takes on religious delusion should be a candidate for the Nobel prize. Religion is the cause of so much of the hatred and violence in this world and the sooner we're done with "God", the better. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:32:57 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:32:57 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C01B3.6080809-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> Message-ID: <4B0C0AB9.2060603@alteeve.com> Darryl Moore wrote: > Linus is a pragmatist who only uses OS and GPL because it suits his > purpose. His only concern is with Linux. He does not, that I've seen, > concern himself very much with the state of the OS community beyond > that. He has far less vision and is far less ethically motivated than > Stallman. > > Between the two of them, Stallman is by far the most deserving. I have huge respect for Stallman, despite his sometimes antagonizing comments. It's thanks to Linus' little pet project that I re-found my love of computers when I was ready to leave IT eight years ago. I own him my job. However, neither of them deserve the peace prize. Maybe another category, like one of the science ones. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:26:12 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:26:12 +0300 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0952.8080203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> James Knott wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> >>>>> Interesting read, here is a small sample of the article: >>>>> >>>>> "Former Vice President Al Gore???s visit to Portland today and >>>>> tomorrow >>>>> has prompted some Nobel Peace Prize thoughts, and in Oregon the idea >>>>> of nominating a Northwesterner. The prospect shot around the >>>>> Portland-area Linux circles (drawing some debate as well as approval >>>>> as it did), starting with this email from Keith Lofstrom: >>>>> >>>>> "Since the Nobel Peace Prize is often given to politicians, some >>>>> disagree with the choices. But it is often given to non-politicians >>>>> who create international efforts to change the world for the better. >>>>> >>>>> "Look at the massive international efforts represented by SC09, and >>>>> realize that much of it started from the work of a 21[-year-old] >>>>> Finnish college student named after 1962 Nobel Peace Prize winner >>>>> Linus Pauling. It would be fitting to honor that international effort >>>>> by giving a Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds, perhaps in 2011 on the >>>>> 20th >>>>> anniversary of the August 1991 Linux announcement, or in 2012 on the >>>>> 50th anniversary of Pauling???s award." >>>>> >>>>> http://www.ridenbaugh.com/index.php/2009/11/18/a-northwest-nobel-option/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Michael Lauzon >>>>> -- >>>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>>> >>>> Not to diminish Torvalds's work but what about Richard Stallman as a >>>> candidate for a Nobel Peace Prize, he did after all create the GPL and >>>> Free Software Foundation and has worked on the tools that form a >>>> GNU/Linux >>>> system. The notion of a totally free operating system was his idea and >>>> that has what has "changed the world". >>> >>> Hmm, RMS and peace price. Not sure those go together. He has created >>> a lot of hostility too. >> And what sense makes putting Linus into the same bag as Obama, killer >> or unborn and hater of Christianity? > > Anyone who takes on religious delusion should be a candidate for the > Nobel prize. Religion is the cause of so much of the hatred and > violence in this world and the sooner we're done with "God", the better. My daughter is 23 years old she has been mostly educated by degenerated Canadian system. She speaks the same nonsense. I can only pray for these lost like you. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:35:35 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:35:35 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0476.6050804-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > And what sense makes putting Linus into the same bag as Obama, killer or > unborn and hater of Christianity? Are you insane? Nobel piss prize got > degenerated. Polish Walesa got it for supposedly creating Solidarity but > he was carried on by secret service police. You people do not know that > or what? > > Al Gore? That idiot who wants with patents and full pockets stop > tropical storms? Again, insane. > > zb. You do love to stir the pot, don't you? How effortlessly you jump from GPL/Linux to religious wing-nuttery and school-yard name calling. Reddit has a /r/eligious channel... Maybe your non-IT, non-Linux views would find a better audience there. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:40:03 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:40:03 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0952.8080203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4B0C0C63.4080900@alteeve.com> James Knott wrote: > Anyone who takes on religious delusion should be a candidate for the > Nobel prize. Religion is the cause of so much of the hatred and > violence in this world and the sooner we're done with "God", the better. I don't think it's religion that is, itself, a problem. It's when someone feels their idea of god imposes restrictions on them, and that is enough for them to push those restrictions on others that problems start. If you think life begins at fertilization? Fine, don't get an abortion. You think it's a sin to "spill your seed", fine, don't use birth control. Just don't tell me what I should believe or what I can't do when it doesn't affect you in the least. If you still insist on pushing your views on me, then I expect you to respect the view and rules of other religions. So put down that steak, don't use any tools or electricity from Friday sundown... you get the idea. If you don't think those apply to you, then you understand why I don't think your rules apply to me. Anyway, let's get back to IT. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:35:25 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:35:25 +0300 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0B57.4060008-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> And what sense makes putting Linus into the same bag as Obama, killer >> or unborn and hater of Christianity? Are you insane? Nobel piss prize >> got degenerated. Polish Walesa got it for supposedly creating >> Solidarity but he was carried on by secret service police. You people >> do not know that or what? >> >> Al Gore? That idiot who wants with patents and full pockets stop >> tropical storms? Again, insane. >> >> zb. > > You do love to stir the pot, don't you? How effortlessly you jump from > GPL/Linux to religious wing-nuttery and school-yard name calling. > > Reddit has a /r/eligious channel... Maybe your non-IT, non-Linux views > would find a better audience there. So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your imagination? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:45:05 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:45:05 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0924.9090409-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C0D91.9080905@alteeve.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > My daughter is 23 years old she has been mostly educated by degenerated > Canadian system. She speaks the same nonsense. > > I can only pray for these lost like you. > > zb. Let me ask something... If you have such a strong dislike of Canadian society and such anger that you couldn't find a job here in Toronto, what keeps you interested in us? Honest question. Anyway, being Buddhist, I think it's wrong that people eat meat. A "sin", you might say, to take life when it's not needed. If I had a god to believe in, I would offer to pray for your soul, too. Maybe I can meditate on how I could show you the way better... We could trade; your prayer for my idea of enlightenment? Sort of like a Christmas gift exchange. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:48:07 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:48:07 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0B4D.9090602-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your imagination? > > zb. My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is right or wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS and general IT stuff. My tolerance does *not* extend to being told that supporting a woman's right to choose is equal to supporting murder. It is also stretched when my country's society is called 'degenerate'. That kinda gets under my skin, ya know? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:45:23 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:45:23 +0300 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0D91.9080905-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C0D91.9080905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4B0C0DA3.9000402@gmail.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> My daughter is 23 years old she has been mostly educated by >> degenerated Canadian system. She speaks the same nonsense. >> >> I can only pray for these lost like you. >> >> zb. > > Let me ask something... If you have such a strong dislike of Canadian > society and such anger that you couldn't find a job here in Toronto, > what keeps you interested in us? Honest question. Dear Madison, As you remember, I am now in Russia. I swear, there is a lot of fools anywhere. In Russia too. It is not your f*n bussiness where I want to be. Did you not you grow up enough to understand that? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:52:30 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:52:30 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C01B3.6080809-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> Message-ID: <20091124165230.GN15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 10:54:27AM -0500, Darryl Moore wrote: > Several people who did a lot worse than create a little animosity were > recipients of the prize. This should not rule him out. No certainly not. > And a lot of people do like it. The opening keynote at LinuxFest was > very informative regarding GPLv3. Did you see it? No I haven't seen it. > The FSF does a hell of a lot for OSS, and they, with Stallman, where the > ones that got the whole ball rolling. Well it has done a lot, but then again so has BSD to some extent. > Linus is a pragmatist who only uses OS and GPL because it suits his > purpose. His only concern is with Linux. He does not, that I've seen, > concern himself very much with the state of the OS community beyond > that. He has far less vision and is far less ethically motivated than > Stallman. Seems pretty likely. Linus is practical and realistic. Stallman isn't. > Between the two of them, Stallman is by far the most deserving. That's certainly debateable. Without Linus we would still be waiting for the FSF to finish hurd (which might happen someday. Maybe.) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:46:40 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:46:40 +0300 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0E47.4040808-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your >> imagination? >> >> zb. > > My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is > right or wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS and > general IT stuff. So just shut up and do not comment on issues not related to Linux. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:54:39 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:54:39 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0952.8080203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20091124165439.GO15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:26:58AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Anyone who takes on religious delusion should be a candidate for the > Nobel prize. Religion is the cause of so much of the hatred and > violence in this world and the sooner we're done with "God", the better. Certainly true. Not likely to be successful though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:57:29 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:57:29 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <20091124165439.GO15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <20091124165439.GO15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7c50d3570911240857r627ced9ep3e4b943a93a6c345@mail.gmail.com> Is Zbigniew ever going to be banned from the list, all he ever does is start arguments, and if anyone remembers the ethnist comment he made a few months ago?! -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:58:19 2009 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:58:19 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0DF0.4070902-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> <4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5390d2750911240858ud350392se7fc4780fc0a4ab4@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> >> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>> >>> So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your imagination? >>> >>> zb. >> >> My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is right or >> wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS and general IT >> stuff. > > So just shut up and do not comment on issues not related to Linux. > > > zb. > -- Congratulations, you have now earned a place on my email filter. To the rest of the list: I'd encourage you all to take this man's last bit of advice, in the sense of not responding to his negative posts. My experience with bullies is that if you ignore them they go away. cheers, jon > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:58:27 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:58:27 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0C63.4080900-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0C63.4080900@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20091124165827.GP15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:40:03AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > I don't think it's religion that is, itself, a problem. It's when > someone feels their idea of god imposes restrictions on them, and that > is enough for them to push those restrictions on others that problems > start. While that is probably true, it seems everytime something tells people how to think (so they don't have to do it themselves), then someone goes and takes it to extremes in the name of whatever the thing is, and bad things happen. Any good done by religion can be done equaly well without it by people working together in social groups. That to me is the only good thing religions offer to people. > If you think life begins at fertilization? Fine, don't get an abortion. > You think it's a sin to "spill your seed", fine, don't use birth > control. Just don't tell me what I should believe or what I can't do > when it doesn't affect you in the least. If you still insist on pushing > your views on me, then I expect you to respect the view and rules of > other religions. So put down that steak, don't use any tools or > electricity from Friday sundown... you get the idea. > > If you don't think those apply to you, then you understand why I don't > think your rules apply to me. > > Anyway, let's get back to IT. Sounds good. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:58:58 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:58:58 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <20091124165230.GN15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> <20091124165230.GN15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B0C10D2.5010106@moores.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > That's certainly debateable. Without Linus we would still be waiting > for the FSF to finish hurd (which might happen someday. Maybe.) > Yes debatable, as is just about anything I guess. I think without Linus, hurd would have been a much higher priority. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 17:00:02 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:00:02 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570911240857r627ced9ep3e4b943a93a6c345-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <20091124165439.GO15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7c50d3570911240857r627ced9ep3e4b943a93a6c345@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C1112.4050904@moores.ca> I suggest simply ignoring the trolls. Michael Lauzon wrote: > Is Zbigniew ever going to be banned from the list, all he ever does is > start arguments, and if anyone remembers the ethnist comment he made a > few months ago?! > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 17:00:30 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:00:30 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0DA3.9000402-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C0D91.9080905@alteeve.com> <4B0C0DA3.9000402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C112E.6040201@alteeve.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>> My daughter is 23 years old she has been mostly educated by >>> degenerated Canadian system. She speaks the same nonsense. >>> >>> I can only pray for these lost like you. >>> >>> zb. >> >> Let me ask something... If you have such a strong dislike of Canadian >> society and such anger that you couldn't find a job here in Toronto, >> what keeps you interested in us? Honest question. > > Dear Madison, > > As you remember, I am now in Russia. I swear, there is a lot of fools > anywhere. In Russia too. > > It is not your f*n bussiness where I want to be. > > Did you not you grow up enough to understand that? > > zb. I've never had a problem with people outside of Toronto or Canada being active on TLUG. I never suggested you leave, either. I was asking a question about your source of interest in Canada, given your obvious negative view of it. You don't seem to let an opportunity pass to berate us. Anyway, in the same way that you say it's not my business, and you're right it's not, why do you think it's your business what me, or this culture, considers moral? How about suggesting that your religious beliefs trump others? madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 17:01:49 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:01:49 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0924.9090409-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > My daughter is 23 years old she has been mostly educated by > degenerated Canadian system. She speaks the same nonsense. > > I can only pray for these lost like you. > > Your daughter should consider herself fortunate to have been able to throw off that religion nonsense. Time and time again facts have shown religious belief to be nothing but delusion, a delusion that drives so many of the problems in this world. You want to believe in fairy tales, that's your business. But don't you dare try to impose that garbage on others. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 17:05:24 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:05:24 +0300 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C117D.40109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4B0C1254.4030103@gmail.com> James, I am myself a physicist. By all my soul. That means that I must understand the physical world. And I do. Better than most of you ignorants around. Id I did not, I would have made absolutely nothing in science. You do not need to believe that, though. There is nothing in science against religion. There is however a lot in education against religion. Why? Because education is about ideology, not about science. And it always have been that way. I repeat again: I have seen enough idiots in every country I lived in. And I did in a few. Canada is not better or worser. This list is technically very good, uncomparable to any other one I know, as long as someone does not provoke a silly discussion (please note that I did not start the discussion) zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 17:16:44 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:16:44 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C1254.4030103-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> <4B0C1254.4030103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C14FC.1090000@utoronto.ca> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > James, > > I am myself a physicist. By all my soul. > > That means that I must understand the physical world. And I do. Better > than most of you ignorants around. Id I did not, I would have made > absolutely nothing in science. You do not need to believe that, though. > > There is nothing in science against religion. There is however a lot in > education against religion. Why? Because education is about ideology, > not about science. And it always have been that way. > > > I repeat again: I have seen enough idiots in every country I lived in. > And I did in a few. Canada is not better or worser. This list is > technically very good, uncomparable to any other one I know, as long as > someone does not provoke a silly discussion (please note that I did not > start the discussion) But you didn't add anything of value to it at first, and then you ended up spewing your usual offensive crap -- it's a pattern with your posts. Stop it. Please. Save yourself the heartache of reading this list since you think we're all ignorant degenerates. Unsubscribe yourself and we'll all be happier for it, yourself included. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 17:19:22 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:19:22 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C117D.40109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4B0C159A.7040606@moores.ca> James Knott wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> >> My daughter is 23 years old she has been mostly educated by >> degenerated Canadian system. She speaks the same nonsense. >> >> I can only pray for these lost like you. >> >> > Your daughter should consider herself fortunate to have been able to > throw off that religion nonsense. I'm sure she does :-) I listened to the radio program Tapestry Sunday afternoon, where they interviewed a former nun named Karen Armstrong. She apparently wrote a lot of books making the case for god. I never bought her arguments for god, but it was interesting none the less. Basically she was saying that greater piety was achieved through shedding ones ego, or "dethroning oneself from the centre of ones own universe" (I liked that particular phrase), The mistake a great many religions make of course is to do the opposite by expecting everyone else to adopt their norms. They and their followers, make their egos bigger rather than smaller. I believe Jesus probably had tremendous piety in this way, and he would likely shudder to see what the church have done since then in his name, if he were around today. Mohammad the same. I did agree with much of what she said, save for the conclusion, and ironically expect that by her definition, the most pious people in the world are probably the humanist with little or or no regard for organized religion, or even god. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 17:24:46 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:24:46 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C1254.4030103-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> <4B0C1254.4030103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C16DE.3060807@alteeve.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > That means that I must understand the physical world. And I do. Better > than most of you ignorants around. Id I did not, I would have made > absolutely nothing in science. You do not need to believe that, though. Now you call us "ignorants", yet claim you "did not start the discussion" when this started by you saying: "And what sense makes putting Linus into the same bag as Obama, killer or unborn and hater of Christianity? Are you insane? Nobel piss prize got degenerated." Is this the definition of irony? I'm afraid I am ignorant on it's true meaning. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 17:27:43 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:27:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <20091124165230.GN15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> <20091124165230.GN15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > That's certainly debateable. Without Linus we would still be waiting > for the FSF to finish hurd (which might happen someday. Maybe.) Don't forget the BSDs. Without Linus either one of the free BSDs would have taken its place as the most popular free OS, or a fork[1] of GNU would have started to use a BSD kernel. [1] It would have to be a fork as the FSF would never accept this. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy http://www.practicalsysadmin.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 17:41:25 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:41:25 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> <20091124165230.GN15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B0C1AC5.7000806@moores.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 24 Nov 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> That's certainly debateable. Without Linus we would still be waiting >> for the FSF to finish hurd (which might happen someday. Maybe.) > > Don't forget the BSDs. Without Linus either one of the free BSDs would > have taken its place as the most popular free OS, or a fork[1] of GNU > would have started to use a BSD kernel. > > [1] It would have to be a fork as the FSF would never accept this. They could easily have forked BSD themselves to build Hurd, then relicense it under the GPL. That's the sort of thing Apple did. So yeah without Linus we wouldn't have Linux, but we would have something licensed under the GPL amongst other licenses. Without RMS, OSS would be a lot less mature for sure. There would be no GPL and no GNU tools, amongst others. Would netscape have been as thoughtful about contributing their code if OSS wasn't as mature as it was at the time? Dunno, but it is possible. Same with Solaris, and many other projects. Without the FSF to adopt many OS projects and then enforce distribution licenses, there would be a lot more corporate piracy of OSS, as many OS developers would not have the means to protect their copyrights. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 17:54:53 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:54:53 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C10D2.5010106-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> <20091124165230.GN15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C10D2.5010106@moores.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Darryl Moore wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> That's certainly debateable. ?Without Linus we would still be waiting >> for the FSF to finish hurd (which might happen someday. ?Maybe.) >> > > Yes debatable, as is just about anything I guess. I think without Linus, > hurd would have been a much higher priority. Yes, had Linux not been "available enough," then they might have put a higher priority on Hurd. It languished for quite a long time because Mach wasn't quite available/usable. Mind you, it could also be that without Linux, there mightn't have been a GPL-licensed kernel, and the FSF might have become more of a historical curiosity, as once the BSD folk got out from under the cloud of the AT&T lawsuit, a lot of the people interested in a "free Unix" would have headed in their direction instead of towards Linux. I subscribe to the position that there was some "historical inevitability," that there were a LOT of people keen on having a "free Unix," such that if it hadn't been Linux or BSD-386, there were certainly other options out there. - Coherent wasn't free; it was probably the first most visible "casualty" of Linux - Minix (still under development!) - MiNT (originally: MiNT is Not TOS, later, MiNT is Now TOS) - VSTa I'm pretty sure that's a desperately incomplete list... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Jonathan Swift - "May you live every day of your life." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jonathan_swift.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 17:57:08 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:57:08 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C1AC5.7000806-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> <20091124165230.GN15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C1AC5.7000806@moores.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Darryl Moore wrote: > Robert Brockway wrote: >> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >>> That's certainly debateable. ?Without Linus we would still be waiting >>> for the FSF to finish hurd (which might happen someday. ?Maybe.) >> >> Don't forget the BSDs. ?Without Linus either one of the free BSDs would >> have taken its place as the most popular free OS, or a fork[1] of GNU >> would have started to use a BSD kernel. >> >> [1] It would have to be a fork as the FSF would never accept this. > > They could easily have forked BSD themselves to build Hurd, then > relicense it under the GPL. That's the sort of thing Apple did. BSD wouldn't have been suitable for the purpose; at best, it would have been an alternative kernel to run atop the Mach microkernel, and there was already a project for that, BSD Lites... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Samuel Goldwyn - "I'm willing to admit that I may not always be right, but I am never wrong." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/samuel_goldwyn.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 18:16:29 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:16:29 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <20091124153139.GM15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: >> Not to diminish Torvalds's work but what about Richard Stallman as a >> candidate for a Nobel Peace Prize, he did after all create the GPL and >> Free Software Foundation and has worked on the tools that form a GNU/Linux >> system. The notion of a totally free operating system was his idea and >> that has what has "changed the world". Very good point > > Hmm, RMS and peace price. ?Not sure those go together. ?He has created > a lot of hostility too. > > A lot of people don't like where the FSF is trying to go (GFDL, GPLv3 > for example). Its very hard to be very influential without making enemies. In fact, I think its impossible. > > Linus makes a lot more sense to me. The problem with Linus is we may not even have know him if Stallman had not created the environment that supported him. You may say BSD would have cut it, but I really doubt that. If Linux was BSD licensed, it would not have grown as fast as it did. And, it would not even have the competitive advantage over the current BSD licensed OS any way. Another thing going for Stallman, is not only did his work create an OS, he also proved that copy left was viable. That has resulted to other cool things like wikipedia, open street you name it. I frankly believe that mindset would not have been been well entrenched without GPL This is one man the world should be grateful about! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 19:39:35 2009 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:39:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C16DE.3060807-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> <4B0C1254.4030103@gmail.com> <4B0C16DE.3060807@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <900918.48773.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ---- > From: Madison Kelly > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 12:24:46 PM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? > Is this the definition of irony? I find it ironic that my Rogers-Yahoo mail has considered Zbigniew's e-mails as "spam" for quite some time. While the heuristics it uses leave much to be desired, in this case I can't help but agree with it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 19:40:05 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:40:05 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> <20091124165230.GN15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20091124194005.GQ15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:27:43PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: > Don't forget the BSDs. Without Linus either one of the free BSDs would > have taken its place as the most popular free OS, or a fork[1] of GNU > would have started to use a BSD kernel. > > [1] It would have to be a fork as the FSF would never accept this. They must really love Debian GNU/kfreebsd then. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 19:44:30 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:44:30 -0500 Subject: Alternatives to logwatch? Message-ID: <20091124194430.GA701@yam.witteman.ca> I generally like the concept of logwatch, but I find it very difficult to configure. It seems to require Perl scripts, for me Perl is like someone I dated in high school - thought of fondly, but not someone I want to actually *see*. I'd love something that is easy-ish to configure, that understands apache2 virtual domains (or lighttpd, or any other httpd for that matter) and generally does what logwatch does. Any thoughts? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 19:53:13 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:53:13 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> <20091124165230.GN15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C10D2.5010106@moores.ca> Message-ID: <20091124195313.GR15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:54:53PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > Yes, had Linux not been "available enough," then they might have put a > higher priority on Hurd. It languished for quite a long time because > Mach wasn't quite available/usable. Funny how the academic circles were so into microkernels at that time (I haven't paid attension to what they favour now). Microkernels haven't ever worked in real life as far as I can tell, only ever in theory. They certainly don't seem to help get things done and working anytime soon. > Mind you, it could also be that without Linux, there mightn't have > been a GPL-licensed kernel, and the FSF might have become more of a > historical curiosity, as once the BSD folk got out from under the > cloud of the AT&T lawsuit, a lot of the people interested in a "free > Unix" would have headed in their direction instead of towards Linux. > > I subscribe to the position that there was some "historical > inevitability," that there were a LOT of people keen on having a "free > Unix," such that if it hadn't been Linux or BSD-386, there were > certainly other options out there. > > - Coherent wasn't free; it was probably the first most visible > "casualty" of Linux > - Minix (still under development!) > - MiNT (originally: MiNT is Not TOS, later, MiNT is Now TOS) > - VSTa > > I'm pretty sure that's a desperately incomplete list... -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 19:58:26 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:58:26 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20091124195826.GS15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 01:16:29PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > Its very hard to be very influential without making enemies. In fact, > I think its impossible. RMS has accomplished a lot. Much of it good. I think some of what he seems to want to accomplish would not necesarily be good though. He can be too extreme. > The problem with Linus is we may not even have know him if Stallman > had not created the environment that supported him. You may say BSD > would have cut it, but I really doubt that. If Linux was BSD licensed, > it would not have grown as fast as it did. And, it would not even have > the competitive advantage over the current BSD licensed OS any way. Well we will never know. gcc was certainly a big help at the time. Of course we may have been much better off had gcc not been around and a good compiler developed instead. Someone might even have started writing the needed tools if they were no around, or used some of the BSD licensed ones. > Another thing going for Stallman, is not only did his work create an > OS, he also proved that copy left was viable. That has resulted to > other cool things like wikipedia, open street you name it. I frankly > believe that mindset would not have been been well entrenched without > GPL The GPLv2 does seem to have acomplished that. I am not sure the GPLv3 would have been that successful at it. I get the impression Linus would not have chosen the GPL if v3 had been what it was at the time. He did write a license himself initially, then decided to change to the GPLv2 instead. > This is one man the world should be grateful about! That I will give you. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 20:05:21 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:05:21 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <20091124195313.GR15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> <20091124165230.GN15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C10D2.5010106@moores.ca> <20091124195313.GR15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B0C3C81.3060206@moores.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:54:53PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: >> Yes, had Linux not been "available enough," then they might have put a >> higher priority on Hurd. It languished for quite a long time because >> Mach wasn't quite available/usable. > > Funny how the academic circles were so into microkernels at that time > (I haven't paid attension to what they favour now). Microkernels haven't > ever worked in real life as far as I can tell, only ever in theory. > They certainly don't seem to help get things done and working anytime > soon. > Actually QNX uses a microkernel and that OS gets quite a bit of use in industrial real time applications -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 20:14:34 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:14:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: iptables --flush confusion Message-ID: <46535.18869.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Sat, 5/30/09, simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org wrote: > From: simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: iptables --flush confusion > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Saturday, May 30, 2009, 5:22 PM > I have a router set up to do NAT > that's using iptables, with net.ipv4.ip_forward=1, and I'm > somewhat confused why when I do an 'iptables --flush', I'm > no longer able to connect to it from another device that is > on the same subnet that the 'wan' interface is on. > > Does anyone know why this is? Am I misunderstanding what it > is that --flush does, or some other basic networking > concept? > > Cheers, > spd > -- You are clearing the filter table entries from the router. That basically breaks the NAT operation. > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer? 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 20:30:16 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:30:16 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <20091124195313.GR15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> <20091124165230.GN15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C10D2.5010106@moores.ca> <20091124195313.GR15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:54:53PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: >> Yes, had Linux not been "available enough," then they might have put a >> higher priority on Hurd. ?It languished for quite a long time because >> Mach wasn't quite available/usable. > > Funny how the academic circles were so into microkernels at that time > (I haven't paid attension to what they favour now). ?Microkernels haven't > ever worked in real life as far as I can tell, only ever in theory. > They certainly don't seem to help get things done and working anytime > soon. After the "salting of the earth" that took place when Microsoft bought everything nearby Mach, followed by the effective "Linux/Windows battle," there's not a whole lot going on in terms of OS research, not that would involve new kernels or new approaches to operating systems. After CMU got "salted," what remained of Mach wound up at University of Utah, as OSKit, in much more of a "maintenance" mode than anything encouraging. MIT had some "exokernel" work going on, which hasn't gone anywhere much. The L4 microkernel work has pretty much finished; didn't much change the world. They showed why microkernels weren't as fast as expected, which was somewhat useful, albeit in more of a "negative" way. KeyKOS turned into EROS (which Raymond made a bunch of noise about for a while), which turned into Coyotos, which effectively died off when Microsoft hired the main researcher. Tanembaum kept working on Minix, which is now a multiserver microkernel system which actually *does* look interesting, and is still under fairly development, albeit without the big "fire engine water spew" level of change taking place with Linux. So, curiously enough, the system that was the inspiration for Linux is actually still under development :-) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Joan Crawford - "I, Joan Crawford, I believe in the dollar. Everything I earn, I spend." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/joan_crawford.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 20:47:35 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:47:35 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C3C81.3060206-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> <20091124165230.GN15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C10D2.5010106@moores.ca> <20091124195313.GR15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C3C81.3060206@moores.ca> Message-ID: <20091124204735.GT15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 03:05:21PM -0500, Darryl Moore wrote: > Actually QNX uses a microkernel and that OS gets quite a bit of use in > industrial real time applications I know qnx is message passing (one of the few to ever get any decent performance out of that, and it took a lot of work to get it). I had forgotten it was microkernel based (which being message passing it can actually get away with). QNX is a rather neat one I must admit. Too bad when we looked at it at work, their posix interface and tools are so far from usable with normal open source code that it was simply not worth looking at. We stuck with linux (with the xenomai extensions for real time support). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 20:49:48 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:49:48 -0500 Subject: iptables --flush confusion In-Reply-To: <46535.18869.qm-RyNgWUfQ9Bf5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <46535.18869.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20091124204948.GU15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 12:14:34PM -0800, E K wrote: > > --- On Sat, 5/30/09, simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > From: simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org > > Subject: [TLUG]: iptables --flush confusion > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Received: Saturday, May 30, 2009, 5:22 PM > > I have a router set up to do NAT > > that's using iptables, with net.ipv4.ip_forward=1, and I'm > > somewhat confused why when I do an 'iptables --flush', I'm > > no longer able to connect to it from another device that is > > on the same subnet that the 'wan' interface is on. > > > > Does anyone know why this is? Am I misunderstanding what it > > is that --flush does, or some other basic networking > > concept? > > > > Cheers, > > spd > > -- > > You are clearing the filter table entries from the router. That basically breaks the NAT operation. Yes flush deletes all current iptable entries from that table (specified with -t). It does not change the policy of any chains. Great way to block yourself out of a box by accident. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 16:08:53 2009 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:08:53 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C01B3.6080809-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> Message-ID: <1259078933.12296.1.camel@hatsya.starnix.com> On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 10:54 -0500, Darryl Moore wrote: > Between the two of them, Stallman is by far the most deserving. "Deserving" isn't really a huge part of the selection criteria for the peace prize from what I've seen. Why not just award it jointly? They do that, too. That way ESR can get one, as well. :) Regards, --matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 21:08:08 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:08:08 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <1259078933.12296.1.camel-EWWT1lLJxm2ye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> <1259078933.12296.1.camel@hatsya.starnix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:08 AM, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 10:54 -0500, Darryl Moore wrote: >> Between the two of them, Stallman is by far the most deserving. > > "Deserving" isn't really a huge part of the selection criteria for the > peace prize from what I've seen. > > Why not just award it jointly? ?They do that, too. ?That way ESR can get > one, as well. :) He's too much of a libertarian gun nut for those Swedes :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Ogden Nash - "The trouble with a kitten is that when it grows up, it's always a cat." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/o/ogden_nash.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 21:35:05 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:35:05 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C1254.4030103-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> <4B0C1254.4030103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C5189.8020808@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > James, > > I am myself a physicist. By all my soul. > > That means that I must understand the physical world. And I do. Better > than most of you ignorants around. Id I did not, I would have made > absolutely nothing in science. You do not need to believe that, though. > > There is nothing in science against religion. There is however a lot in > education against religion. Why? Because education is about ideology, > not about science. And it always have been that way. > Actually, there is. It's called "reality". Take anthropology for example. It shows there have been several early humans, why no mention of them in the bible? Why does the bible claim humans came before animals, when the opposite is true? Why does the bible claim the earth existed before the sun? Why is there no evidence for anything before King David & Solomon? What about animals such as kangaroos that have never been in the area Noah & his ark supposedly came from? How did they survive the flood? Why do history and archeology show "The Exodus" to be a myth? There is a heck of a lot of evidence that shows the Bible and religious belief to be absolute nonsense. As for education, you might want to read up on Dover Pennsylvania, where a couple of religious zealots tried to hijack the school board to impose "Intelligent Design" aka creationism on the schools. They tried to claim it was science. The only "ideology" is that great delusion known as "religion" which people are supposed to accept without question or supporting evidence. In any other area, it would be called delusion. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 21:33:59 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:33:59 +0300 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> <1259078933.12296.1.camel@hatsya.starnix.com> Message-ID: <4B0C5147.3020402@gmail.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:08 AM, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > >> On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 10:54 -0500, Darryl Moore wrote: >> >>> Between the two of them, Stallman is by far the most deserving. >>> >> "Deserving" isn't really a huge part of the selection criteria for the >> peace prize from what I've seen. >> >> Why not just award it jointly? They do that, too. That way ESR can get >> one, as well. :) >> > > He's too much of a libertarian gun nut for those Swedes :-). > Most likely nobody asked Torvalds for his agreement to be "nominated" for piss prise. Neither for his political or ideological views... And who knows, it is quite likely that quite some on this list would prefer not to know about his thoughts not related to OS. Well, it is not excluded either as a theoretical possibility that he does not have any thoughts at all except of these related to Linux kernel. At least I do not know about any scientific publication reporting on insanity of his mind and social views. I seriously doubt that he would like to share that "award" with greenhouse effect co-maker. Besides, to spoil a man - give him money. So far I do not think he is in any serious debts and needs help from Norwegian piss committee. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 22:07:46 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:07:46 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C159A.7040606-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> <4B0C159A.7040606@moores.ca> Message-ID: <4B0C5932.5090408@rogers.com> Darryl Moore wrote: > > James Knott wrote: > >> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> >>> My daughter is 23 years old she has been mostly educated by >>> degenerated Canadian system. She speaks the same nonsense. >>> >>> I can only pray for these lost like you. >>> >>> >>> >> Your daughter should consider herself fortunate to have been able to >> throw off that religion nonsense. >> > > I'm sure she does :-) > > > I listened to the radio program Tapestry Sunday afternoon, where they > interviewed a former nun named Karen Armstrong. She apparently wrote a > lot of books making the case for god. > > I never bought her arguments for god, but it was interesting none the > less. Basically she was saying that greater piety was achieved through > shedding ones ego, or "dethroning oneself from the centre of ones own > universe" (I liked that particular phrase), The mistake a great many > religions make of course is to do the opposite by expecting everyone > else to adopt their norms. They and their followers, make their egos > bigger rather than smaller. > > I believe Jesus probably had tremendous piety in this way, and he would > likely shudder to see what the church have done since then in his name, > if he were around today. Mohammad the same. > > I did agree with much of what she said, save for the conclusion, and > ironically expect that by her definition, the most pious people in the > world are probably the humanist with little or or no regard for > organized religion, or even god. > I have often said that religion is a delusion and organized religion a fraud. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 22:04:40 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:04:40 +0300 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C5189.8020808-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> <4B0C1254.4030103@gmail.com> <4B0C5189.8020808@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4B0C5878.9090402@gmail.com> James Knott wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> >> James, >> >> I am myself a physicist. By all my soul. >> >> That means that I must understand the physical world. And I do. Better >> than most of you ignorants around. Id I did not, I would have made >> absolutely nothing in science. You do not need to believe that, though. >> >> There is nothing in science against religion. There is however a lot in >> education against religion. Why? Because education is about ideology, >> not about science. And it always have been that way. >> > James, you asked. You are now responsible for any hate that may result from this my email towards me ;) > Actually, there is. It's called "reality". Take anthropology for > example. It shows there have been several early humans, why no > mention of them in the bible? Why does the bible claim humans came > before animals, when the opposite is true? Why does the bible claim > the earth existed before the sun? Why is there no evidence for > anything before King David & Solomon? What about animals such as > kangaroos that have never been in the area Noah & his ark supposedly > came from? How did they survive the flood? Why do history and > archeology show "The Exodus" to be a myth? There is a heck of a lot > of evidence that shows the Bible and religious belief to be absolute > nonsense. > And what was you actual question? I am sorry. I am not sure. I would like to take it seriously, but am not sure what exactly it was. Was it perhaps about "what is against religion in science" or something similar? If yes, than I will say very shortly, again: there is nothing against religion in science. The Bible, New Testament, they are not scientific works. I could possibly discuss them together with you drinking beer or coffee but I can not discuss the merits of that most sold book (which is considered saint by many, including myself) before Lenin works outnumbered it in Soviet Union and before Harry Pottter. > As for education, you might want to read up on Dover Pennsylvania, > where a couple of religious zealots tried to hijack the school board > to impose "Intelligent Design" aka creationism on the schools. They > tried to claim it was science. The only "ideology" is that great > delusion known as "religion" which people are supposed to accept > without question or supporting evidence. In any other area, it would > be called delusion. I am sorry for these sick idiots whom you mention here. Actually, when I come to Northern America, I could not understand attitude towards religion of other religious Christians there as well. It is different than that I grew up with in Poland, in Europe. OK, thats not the essence of my reply. Have a look to the sky during a night when there is no clouds, outside of the city. Can you imagine that contemporary science does NOT explain almost nothing about what you see there? There is so many questions around. To believe, for me - it means to see these questions. Nothing more I need. Nothing more. To be happy - means to me to be able to understand how many questions around are not answered. From another hand. I am now in Russia. What is done about Russia in Canadian media? Bullshit. A mess. People in Canada actually have no idea about living in Russia. Canada is not an exception. Poland borders with Russia. I send a few emails to a Polish mailing list explaining how is life here and they listened with open mouths. Astonishing? Yes, it is. I seek the truth. zb. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 22:16:32 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:16:32 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C5878.9090402-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> <4B0C1254.4030103@gmail.com> <4B0C5189.8020808@rogers.com> <4B0C5878.9090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C5B40.1040603@utoronto.ca> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > From another hand. I am now in Russia. What is done about Russia in > Canadian media? Bullshit. A mess. People in Canada actually have no idea > about living in Russia. Canada is not an exception. Poland borders with > Russia. I send a few emails to a Polish mailing list explaining how is > life here and they listened with open mouths. Astonishing? Yes, it is. > > I seek the truth. Great. You probably won't find it in front of a computer, and certainly not by posting to this list. Not sure how else to say this Zbigniew, but would you please take your quest for the truth to some other mailing list? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 24 22:29:01 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:29:01 +0300 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C5B40.1040603-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> <4B0C1254.4030103@gmail.com> <4B0C5189.8020808@rogers.com> <4B0C5878.9090402@gmail.com> <4B0C5B40.1040603@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4B0C5E2D.3020004@gmail.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> From another hand. I am now in Russia. What is done about Russia in >> Canadian media? Bullshit. A mess. People in Canada actually have no >> idea about living in Russia. Canada is not an exception. Poland >> borders with Russia. I send a few emails to a Polish mailing list >> explaining how is life here and they listened with open mouths. >> Astonishing? Yes, it is. >> >> I seek the truth. > > Great. You probably won't find it in front of a computer, and > certainly not by posting to this list. > > Not sure how else to say this Zbigniew, but would you please take your > quest for the truth to some other mailing list? OK, Jason, I will stop answering when you stop asking me. Is that fair? But why do you want that anyway? About computer and finding questions and answers.. well... We have that what some call The Internet. May be not for long yet, but still we have it. I am used to read every morning newspapers from NYTimes, WashPost, Globe and Mail, TorStar, Pravda, Isviestia, Zycie Warszawy, Rzeczpospolita, as well accasionaly from a dozen other known or not known places. Except of that I read a lot of English-language web sites that are likely to be shut down sooner or later, some from Netherlands, and some more. This list, as I said already, is outstanding. Believe me. I lean all the time, including now, about life just by reading this list. Have a good morning in Canada (here in Russia it is 1:28 am on my comp) zb. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 00:30:31 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:30:31 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0DF0.4070902-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> <4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C7AA7.1050800@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>> So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your >>> imagination? >>> >>> zb. >> >> My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is >> right or wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS >> and general IT stuff. > > So just shut up and do not comment on issues not related to Linux. > Oh I see. You're the only one that's allowed to make comments such as those you did about Al Gore and the Nobel committee. I guess being a good "Christian" gives you the right to be so obnoxious and hateful. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 00:36:41 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:36:41 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C5878.9090402-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> <4B0C1254.4030103@gmail.com> <4B0C5189.8020808@rogers.com> <4B0C5878.9090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C7C19.8060204@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > I am sorry for these sick idiots whom you mention here. Actually, when > I come to Northern America, I could not understand attitude towards > religion of other religious Christians there as well. It is different > than that I grew up with in Poland, in Europe. OK, thats not the > essence of my reply. > > Have a look to the sky during a night when there is no clouds, outside > of the city. Can you imagine that contemporary science does NOT > explain almost nothing about what you see there? There is so many > questions around. To believe, for me - it means to see these > questions. Nothing more I need. Nothing more. To be happy - means to > me to be able to understand how many questions around are not answered. > I guess you've missed all the work by astronomers and astrophysicists, not to mention those working with quantum mechanics. > From another hand. I am now in Russia. What is done about Russia in > Canadian media? Bullshit. A mess. People in Canada actually have no > idea about living in Russia. Canada is not an exception. Poland > borders with Russia. I send a few emails to a Polish mailing list > explaining how is life here and they listened with open mouths. > Astonishing? Yes, it is. > > I seek the truth. > So, open your eyes and ears and realize what an absolute fool you're making of yourself. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 01:20:58 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:20:58 -0500 Subject: OT: New RoR meetup in GTA Message-ID: <4B0C867A.1010809@gmail.com> I've decided to forge ahead and create Ruby on Rails (DevMentor) meetup. If anyone here is interested in helping me get setup and going come check out the group and ping me! If you know anyone else who might want to help out, possibly donate large sums of $$$ please feel free to forward this email thanks! http://www.meetup.com/DevMentor The group is free to join and you will never be asked for money! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 01:39:47 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:39:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C0DF0.4070902-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> <4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: > > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your imagination? > > > > > > zb. > > > > My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is right or > > wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS and general IT > > stuff. > > So just shut up and do not comment on issues not related to Linux. and it's at this point that most well-run mailing lists press the "Ban" button and life returns to normal. what are the chances of that happening here? rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 02:02:03 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:02:03 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> <4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0C901B.5060103@alteeve.com> Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Tue, 24 Nov 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> Madison Kelly wrote: >>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>> So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your imagination? >>>> >>>> zb. >>> My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is right or >>> wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS and general IT >>> stuff. >> So just shut up and do not comment on issues not related to Linux. > > and it's at this point that most well-run mailing lists press the > "Ban" button and life returns to normal. what are the chances of that > happening here? > > rday Personally, I don't think a ban is in order. At least not yet. Our disagreements shouldn't be resolved with bans... All that does is build a clique. What I think does need to stop is the name calling. If that happens, then I think everyone should be welcome. If it doesn't, then a ban is appropriate. We should be able to act like adults, myself included. For my part in today's heated exchange, I want to apologize. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 02:22:22 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:22:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <20091124195313.GR15158-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C01B3.6080809@moores.ca> <20091124165230.GN15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C10D2.5010106@moores.ca> <20091124195313.GR15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Funny how the academic circles were so into microkernels at that time > (I haven't paid attension to what they favour now). Microkernels haven't > ever worked in real life as far as I can tell, only ever in theory. Actually they worked but they just worked very slowly. A lot of work has been done since then and the performance of modern microkernels have improved a lot. My position is that increased system complexity will drive us to use microkernels[1] eventually despite performance problems. [1] Or maybe Exokernels. Either way this will be a slow process. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy http://www.practicalsysadmin.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 04:06:03 2009 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:06:03 +0000 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C7AA7.1050800-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> <4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com>,<4B0C7AA7.1050800@rogers.com> Message-ID: ---------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:30:31 -0500 > From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? > > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> Madison Kelly wrote: >>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>> So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your >>>> imagination? >>>> >>>> zb. >>> >>> My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is >>> right or wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS >>> and general IT stuff. >> >> So just shut up and do not comment on issues not related to Linux. >> > Oh I see. You're the only one that's allowed to make comments such as > those you did about Al Gore and the Nobel committee. I guess being a > good "Christian" gives you the right to be so obnoxious and hateful. I think before you accuse others of being obnoxious and hateful, you ought to look within yourself. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 04:49:18 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:49:18 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> <4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> <4B0C7AA7.1050800@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:06 PM, wrote: > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:30:31 -0500 >> From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? >> >> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>> Madison Kelly wrote: >>>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>>> So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your >>>>> imagination? >>>>> >>>>> zb. >>>> >>>> My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is >>>> right or wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS >>>> and general IT stuff. >>> >>> So just shut up and do not comment on issues not related to Linux. >>> >> Oh I see. You're the only one that's allowed to make comments such as >> those you did about Al Gore and the Nobel committee. I guess being a >> good "Christian" gives you the right to be so obnoxious and hateful. > > I think before you accuse others of being obnoxious and hateful, you ought to look within yourself. What?? Sorry, I've stayed out of this til now, but Zbigniew is the _only one_ who has been obnoxious here. He needs to learn that religion and dogma have no place anywhere near civilized discussion. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 05:00:39 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:00:39 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> <4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> <4B0C7AA7.1050800@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4B0CB9F7.3010908@alteeve.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:06 PM, wrote: >> >> >> ---------------------------------------- >>> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:30:31 -0500 >>> From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org >>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? >>> >>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>> Madison Kelly wrote: >>>>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>>>> So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your >>>>>> imagination? >>>>>> >>>>>> zb. >>>>> My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is >>>>> right or wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS >>>>> and general IT stuff. >>>> So just shut up and do not comment on issues not related to Linux. >>>> >>> Oh I see. You're the only one that's allowed to make comments such as >>> those you did about Al Gore and the Nobel committee. I guess being a >>> good "Christian" gives you the right to be so obnoxious and hateful. >> I think before you accuse others of being obnoxious and hateful, you ought to look within yourself. > > What?? Sorry, I've stayed out of this til now, but Zbigniew is the > _only one_ who has been obnoxious here. He needs to learn that > religion and dogma have no place anywhere near civilized discussion. Guys, the troll juice is spreading. Let's move this conversation off-list. Preferably over a bear or three. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 05:07:02 2009 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:07:02 +0000 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com>,<7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca>,<20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>,<4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com>,<4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com>,<4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> <4B0C7AA7.1050800@rogers.com>,, Message-ID: ---------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:49:18 -0500 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? > From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:06 PM, wrote: >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------- >>> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:30:31 -0500 >>> From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org >>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? >>> >>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>> Madison Kelly wrote: >>>>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>>>> So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your >>>>>> imagination? >>>>>> >>>>>> zb. >>>>> >>>>> My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is >>>>> right or wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS >>>>> and general IT stuff. >>>> >>>> So just shut up and do not comment on issues not related to Linux. >>>> >>> Oh I see. You're the only one that's allowed to make comments such as >>> those you did about Al Gore and the Nobel committee. I guess being a >>> good "Christian" gives you the right to be so obnoxious and hateful. >> >> I think before you accuse others of being obnoxious and hateful, you ought to look within yourself. > > What?? Sorry, I've stayed out of this til now, but Zbigniew is the > _only one_ who has been obnoxious here. He needs to learn that > religion and dogma have no place anywhere near civilized discussion. Some of the crap I'm reading just seems to defy logic. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 05:25:13 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:25:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com>,<7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca>,<20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>,<4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com>,<4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com>,<4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> <4B0C7AA7.1050800@rogers.com>,, Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009, john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > Some of the crap I'm reading just seems to defy logic. the primary defying of logic happening here is that people are clinging to the idea that mr. koziol will eventually behave, that things will return to normal and that his perpetual offensive and demeaning outbursts won't happen again. let me know how that works out. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 05:42:24 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:42:24 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0CB9F7.3010908-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> <4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> <4B0C7AA7.1050800@rogers.com> <4B0CB9F7.3010908@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 12:00 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:06 PM, ? wrote: >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:30:31 -0500 >>>> From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org >>>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>>> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest >>>> Nobel option? >>>> >>>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Madison Kelly wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your >>>>>>> imagination? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> zb. >>>>>> >>>>>> My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is >>>>>> right or wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS >>>>>> and general IT stuff. >>>>> >>>>> So just shut up and do not comment on issues not related to Linux. >>>>> >>>> Oh I see. You're the only one that's allowed to make comments such as >>>> those you did about Al Gore and the Nobel committee. I guess being a >>>> good "Christian" gives you the right to be so obnoxious and hateful. >>> >>> I think before you accuse others of being obnoxious and hateful, you >>> ought to look within yourself. >> >> What?? Sorry, I've stayed out of this til now, but Zbigniew is the >> _only one_ who has been obnoxious here. He needs to learn that >> religion and dogma have no place anywhere near civilized discussion. > > Guys, the troll juice is spreading. Let's move this conversation off-list. > Preferably over a bear or three. :) Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 15:20:55 2009 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:20:55 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0CB9F7.3010908-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> <4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> <4B0C7AA7.1050800@rogers.com> <4B0CB9F7.3010908@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Why drag bears into this? What have those poor creatures done to deserve it? Why not go and have a drink or two instead... Cheers, Colin On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 12:00 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:06 PM, ? wrote: >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:30:31 -0500 >>>> From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org >>>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>>> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest >>>> Nobel option? >>>> >>>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Madison Kelly wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your >>>>>>> imagination? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> zb. >>>>>> >>>>>> My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is >>>>>> right or wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS >>>>>> and general IT stuff. >>>>> >>>>> So just shut up and do not comment on issues not related to Linux. >>>>> >>>> Oh I see. You're the only one that's allowed to make comments such as >>>> those you did about Al Gore and the Nobel committee. I guess being a >>>> good "Christian" gives you the right to be so obnoxious and hateful. >>> >>> I think before you accuse others of being obnoxious and hateful, you >>> ought to look within yourself. >> >> What?? Sorry, I've stayed out of this til now, but Zbigniew is the >> _only one_ who has been obnoxious here. He needs to learn that >> religion and dogma have no place anywhere near civilized discussion. > > Guys, the troll juice is spreading. Let's move this conversation off-list. > Preferably over a bear or three. :) > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 15:34:25 2009 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:34:25 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> <4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> <4B0C7AA7.1050800@rogers.com> Message-ID: Actually, I would imagine that if you have a strong religious faith, some of mr. Knott's writing would be rather offensive - in essence, he would be calling you (at best) delusional. Not very nice. The difference I see between him and mr. Koziol, is that if both imagined someone else saying their own words to them, it would be perfectly reasonable for mr. Knott to fail to see anything offensive while it is beyond comprehension that mr. Koziol would not see the offensive nature of his words, coming from someone else (he simply appears blind to that when they are his own words). So James, please do try to see that your words can be hurtful to people who have done you, and will do you, no harm. I consider myself an out and out atheist, but I have known and do know many decent, wonderful people of faith who I respect and who do not deserve such condescension. (I have also know obnoxious, intollerant and bigotted "holy rollers" who definitely do deserve it, but religion/faith is not the distiguishing factor per se). Also, for those conviced that religion is the fount of most of the worlds troubles - have you considered how often religion is used as a convenient excuse for ethnis persecution? Peace everyone (who deserves it), Colin On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:06 PM, ? wrote: >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------- >>> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:30:31 -0500 >>> From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org >>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? >>> >>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>> Madison Kelly wrote: >>>>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>>>> So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your >>>>>> imagination? >>>>>> >>>>>> zb. >>>>> >>>>> My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is >>>>> right or wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS >>>>> and general IT stuff. >>>> >>>> So just shut up and do not comment on issues not related to Linux. >>>> >>> Oh I see. You're the only one that's allowed to make comments such as >>> those you did about Al Gore and the Nobel committee. I guess being a >>> good "Christian" gives you the right to be so obnoxious and hateful. >> >> I think before you accuse others of being obnoxious and hateful, you ought to look within yourself. > > What?? Sorry, I've stayed out of this til now, but Zbigniew is the > _only one_ who has been obnoxious here. He needs to learn that > religion and dogma have no place anywhere near civilized discussion. > > -- > TBM > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 15:44:57 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:44:57 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0C5878.9090402-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> <4B0C1254.4030103@gmail.com> <4B0C5189.8020808@rogers.com> <4B0C5878.9090402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570911250744l4e029936i8ec08289bfdad1b6@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 17:04, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > I seek the truth. > > zb. Okay then, seek truth here: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/ & here: http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 15:43:06 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:43:06 +0300 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> <4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> <4B0C7AA7.1050800@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4B0D508A.3090803@gmail.com> Hello Colin, As I wrote once in few words here on this subject, I am learning myself all the time. On mistakes of others I do. A time may come (I doubt though, but I hope so) when James will understand my words about an infinite beauty and power of the sky above us during a moonless night, outside of city lights. Thanks, zb. colin davidson wrote: > Actually, I would imagine that if you have a strong religious faith, > some of mr. Knott's writing would be rather offensive - in essence, he > would be calling you (at best) delusional. Not very nice. The > difference I see between him and mr. Koziol, is that if both imagined > someone else saying their own words to them, it would be perfectly > reasonable for mr. Knott to fail to see anything offensive while it is > beyond comprehension that mr. Koziol would not see the offensive > nature of his words, coming from someone else (he simply appears blind > to that when they are his own words). > > So James, please do try to see that your words can be hurtful to > people who have done you, and will do you, no harm. I consider myself > an out and out atheist, but I have known and do know many decent, > wonderful people of faith who I respect and who do not deserve such > condescension. (I have also know obnoxious, intollerant and bigotted > "holy rollers" who definitely do deserve it, but religion/faith is not > the distiguishing factor per se). > > Also, for those conviced that religion is the fount of most of the > worlds troubles - have you considered how often religion is used as a > convenient excuse for ethnis persecution? > > Peace everyone (who deserves it), > Colin > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Thomas Milne > wrote: > >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:06 PM, wrote: >> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------- >>> >>>> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:30:31 -0500 >>>> From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org >>>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>>> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? >>>> >>>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>> >>>>> Madison Kelly wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> So far I am here. Is your tolerance on paper only or in your >>>>>>> imagination? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> zb. >>>>>>> >>>>>> My tolerance extends up to the point where others tell me what is >>>>>> right or wrong. My interest in TLUG extends to talks on Linux, OSS >>>>>> and general IT stuff. >>>>>> >>>>> So just shut up and do not comment on issues not related to Linux. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Oh I see. You're the only one that's allowed to make comments such as >>>> those you did about Al Gore and the Nobel committee. I guess being a >>>> good "Christian" gives you the right to be so obnoxious and hateful. >>>> >>> I think before you accuse others of being obnoxious and hateful, you ought to look within yourself. >>> >> What?? Sorry, I've stayed out of this til now, but Zbigniew is the >> _only one_ who has been obnoxious here. He needs to learn that >> religion and dogma have no place anywhere near civilized discussion. >> >> -- >> TBM >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 15:56:54 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:56:54 +0300 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570911250744l4e029936i8ec08289bfdad1b6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <7386041d0cc56a90d166fbe1764462dd.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20091124153139.GM15158@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> <4B0C1254.4030103@gmail.com> <4B0C5189.8020808@rogers.com> <4B0C5878.9090402@gmail.com> <7c50d3570911250744l4e029936i8ec08289bfdad1b6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B0D53C6.1050503@gmail.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 17:04, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> I seek the truth. >> >> zb. >> > > Okay then, seek truth here: > > http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/ > > & here: > > http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/ > > No, thanks Michael. While I may believe in your good intentions, I did grew up of these kinds of stories. There is enough of real mysteries around to care of. Thats what I am doing: I am doing physics. I swear, the real mysteries are much more interesting. I will give an example. Not a very long time ago, when I was already in Russia, there was a hockey match between Canada and Russia. One young man, my co-worker in physics, asked me: whom do you want to win, Russians or Canadians? My answer was, well... "I do not care". He was so surprised and it seems he did not believe me... zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 16:39:03 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:39:03 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0B57.4060008@alteeve.com> <4B0C0B4D.9090602@gmail.com> <4B0C0E47.4040808@alteeve.com> <4B0C0DF0.4070902@gmail.com> <4B0C7AA7.1050800@rogers.com> <4B0CB9F7.3010908@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4B0D5DA7.9080508@alteeve.com> >_< colin davidson wrote: > Why drag bears into this? What have those poor creatures done to deserve it? > > Why not go and have a drink or two instead... > > Cheers, Colin > >> Guys, the troll juice is spreading. Let's move this conversation off-list. >> Preferably over a bear or three. :) >> >> Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 16:43:44 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:43:44 -0500 Subject: Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <4B0D53C6.1050503-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570911231026k3414b231pee5a35baf1d8ab0a@mail.gmail.com> <4B0C0476.6050804@gmail.com> <4B0C0952.8080203@rogers.com> <4B0C0924.9090409@gmail.com> <4B0C117D.40109@rogers.com> <4B0C1254.4030103@gmail.com> <4B0C5189.8020808@rogers.com> <4B0C5878.9090402@gmail.com> <7c50d3570911250744l4e029936i8ec08289bfdad1b6@mail.gmail.com> <4B0D53C6.1050503@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570911250843s2bae9a72y581452f1b6d12c58@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:56, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Michael Lauzon wrote: >> >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 17:04, Zbigniew Koziol >> wrote: >> >>> >>> I seek the truth. >>> >>> zb. >>> >> >> Okay then, seek truth here: >> >> http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/ >> >> & here: >> >> http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/ >> >> > > No, thanks Michael. While I may believe in your good intentions, I did grew > up of these kinds of stories. There is enough of real mysteries around to > care of. Thats what I am doing: I am doing physics. I swear, the real > mysteries are much more interesting. > > I will give an example. > > Not a very long time ago, when I was already in Russia, there was a hockey > match between Canada and Russia. One young man, my co-worker in physics, > asked me: whom do you want to win, Russians or Canadians? My answer was, > well... "I do not care". He was so surprised and it seems he did not believe > me... > > zb. > And..?! -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 22:25:03 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:25:03 -0500 Subject: (going OT) Re:Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? Message-ID: <7fc604580911251425s3d1a41c9o7b9376125d672f15@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/24 James Knott > Anyone who takes on religious delusion should be a candidate for the Nobel > prize. Religion is the cause of so much of the hatred and violence in this > world and the sooner we're done with "God", the better. > > That would suggest Bobby Henderson, creator of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster ... or maybe that guy Dawkins. But there's no way in hell that will happen (sorry, couldn't be helped). Suggesting Stallman for the Nobel is absolutely laughable, considering that he thrives on confrontation and refusal to compromise. These are admirable and useful qualities in some contexts, but certainly not related to anything to do with a peace prize. It is notable that the FSF languished in near-obscurity for its first decade -- having produced little more than compilers, EMACS and clones of Unix utilities that had nearly no interest to any but Sun and VAX admins and developers. Then Torvalds created not just a kernel, but a communications and distribution ecosystem that was friendly to developer and end-user alike. It was the social element, the meritocracy and openness of the development process, the "release early and often" credo -- more than the mere quantity of code -- that made Linus' contribution extraordinary. But, really, neither Torvalds nor Stallman is right for the Nobel Peace Prize. My personal nominee? A tough call -- not much peaceful stuff happening in 2009 -- but I'd suggest Mir-Hossein Mousavi; we have yet to see the end of what he started. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 25 23:25:47 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:25:47 -0500 Subject: (going OT) Re:Nobel Peace Prize to Linus Torvalds: A Northwest Nobel option? In-Reply-To: <7fc604580911251425s3d1a41c9o7b9376125d672f15-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7fc604580911251425s3d1a41c9o7b9376125d672f15@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Suggesting Stallman for the Nobel is absolutely laughable, considering that > he thrives on confrontation and refusal to compromise. One name: Henry Kissinger, based on his involvement with the Vietnam War... http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1973/kissinger-bio.html A lot of folks might still consider Kissinger a laughable option... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach - "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/marie_von_ebnereschenbac.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 26 22:35:43 2009 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:35:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: USB-serial defective in Ubuntu 9.10 Message-ID: <28377.99.253.254.243.1259274943.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> We use serial-usb to connect to our instruments and we had field reports that Ubuntu 9.10 was not working. We found that Ubuntu 9.10 has a defective usb-serial module. Specifically, the ftdi.c code in 9.10 appears to be defective. The fix, apparently, is to replace it with an earlier version and recompile. We're recompiling this evening, so we'll find out if that works. We also had problems with the install on an HP laptop (model number on request), with regard to the restricted (proprietary) hardware drivers. That problem may be specific to this laptop, but the USB bug appears to be hardware agnostic. I'd stay away from Ubuntu 9.10 until they've had some time to fix these problems. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 27 06:17:51 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 22:17:51 -0800 Subject: USB-serial defective in Ubuntu 9.10 In-Reply-To: <28377.99.253.254.243.1259274943.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <28377.99.253.254.243.1259274943.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <866284FF-6F41-4178-A219-D13B437EE015@gmail.com> Wouldn't the problem be more specific to whatever kernel "karmic" uses, or is there a broken/conflicting userland component as well? (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 26-Nov-09, at 2:35 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > We use serial-usb to connect to our instruments and we had field > reports > that Ubuntu 9.10 was not working. We found that Ubuntu 9.10 has a > defective usb-serial module. Specifically, the ftdi.c code in 9.10 > appears > to be defective. The fix, apparently, is to replace it with an earlier > version and recompile. We're recompiling this evening, so we'll find > out > if that works. > > We also had problems with the install on an HP laptop (model number on > request), with regard to the restricted (proprietary) hardware > drivers. > That problem may be specific to this laptop, but the USB bug appears > to be > hardware agnostic. > > I'd stay away from Ubuntu 9.10 until they've had some time to fix > these > problems. > > Peter > > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 27 14:10:20 2009 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:10:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: USB-serial defective in Ubuntu 9.10 Message-ID: <16624.99.253.254.243.1259331020.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Yeah, this is a component in the kernel. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/460857 Peter > Wouldn't the problem be more specific to whatever kernel "karmic" > uses, or is there a broken/conflicting userland component as well? > > (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) > > On 26-Nov-09, at 2:35 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> We use serial-usb to connect to our instruments and we had field >> reports >> that Ubuntu 9.10 was not working. We found that Ubuntu 9.10 has a >> defective usb-serial module. Specifically, the ftdi.c code in 9.10 >> appears >> to be defective. The fix, apparently, is to replace it with an earlier >> version and recompile. We're recompiling this evening, so we'll find >> out >> if that works. >> >> We also had problems with the install on an HP laptop (model number on >> request), with regard to the restricted (proprietary) hardware >> drivers. >> That problem may be specific to this laptop, but the USB bug appears >> to be >> hardware agnostic. >> >> I'd stay away from Ubuntu 9.10 until they've had some time to fix >> these >> problems. >> >> Peter >> >> >> -- >> Peter Hiscocks >> Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto >> http://www.syscompdesign.com >> USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator >> 647-839-0325 >> >> -- >> Peter Hiscocks >> Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto >> http://www.syscompdesign.com >> USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator >> 647-839-0325 >> >> -- >> Peter Hiscocks >> Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto >> http://www.syscompdesign.com >> USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator >> 647-839-0325 >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 27 23:56:05 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:56:05 -0500 Subject: desktop capture Message-ID: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> Is there a solid desktop capture app for Linux, the open source one I found are pretty crap, some don't work, one of them had ugly artifacts. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 00:06:26 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:06:26 -0500 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: <4B106715.9030504-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Is there a solid desktop capture app for Linux, the open source one I found > are pretty crap, some don't work, one of them had ugly artifacts. ffmpeg comes with one that I've used in the past with good results. Been awhile though, and it's command line only. Something like this: ffmpeg -f x11grab outfile but you would need to specify some codecs, bitrates and so on in there too. Make sure you're using a _real_ ffmpeg from Debian Multimedia, and not some crippled and out-of-date one like Ubuntu ships. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 00:48:57 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:48:57 -0500 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B107379.9080003@gmail.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > >> Is there a solid desktop capture app for Linux, the open source one I found >> are pretty crap, some don't work, one of them had ugly artifacts. >> > > ffmpeg comes with one that I've used in the past with good results. > Been awhile though, and it's command line only. > > Something like this: > > ffmpeg -f x11grab outfile > > but you would need to specify some codecs, bitrates and so on in there too. > > Make sure you're using a _real_ ffmpeg from Debian Multimedia, and not > some crippled and out-of-date one like Ubuntu ships. > > Thomas thanks, I'm building it from source now and will play around with it. -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 00:56:24 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:56:24 -0500 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: <4B107379.9080003-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> <4B107379.9080003@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Rajinder Yadav >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Is there a solid desktop capture app for Linux, the open source one I >>> found >>> are pretty crap, some don't work, one of them had ugly artifacts. >>> >> >> ffmpeg comes with one that I've used in the past with good results. >> Been awhile though, and it's command line only. >> >> Something like this: >> >> ffmpeg -f x11grab outfile >> >> but you would need to specify some codecs, bitrates and so on in there >> too. >> >> Make sure you're using a _real_ ffmpeg from Debian Multimedia, and not >> some crippled and out-of-date one like Ubuntu ships. >> >> > > Thomas thanks, I'm building it from source now and will play around with it. >From source?? Wow, okay, that can be quite an exercise. Just make sure you build it with --enable-x11grab, or whatever the necessary switch is when you do ./configure. You're using Ubuntu, no? Why not just install it from Debian Multimedia? -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 00:57:23 2009 From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:57:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OT] Tactical Nuclear Penguin Message-ID: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/8380412.stm "a beer such as Tactical Nuclear Penguin should be drunk in "spirit sized measures". A warning on the label states: "This is an extremely strong beer; it should be enjoyed in small servings and with an air of aristocratic nonchalance. In exactly the same manner that you would enjoy a fine whisky, a Frank Zappa album or a visit from a friendly yet anxious ghost." -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 01:02:32 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:02:32 -0500 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> <4B107379.9080003@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B1076A8.6060104@gmail.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > You're using Ubuntu, no? Why not just install it from Debian Multimedia? > silly question, how do fetch from Debian Multimedia? -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 01:15:01 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:15:01 -0500 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: <4B1076A8.6060104-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> <4B107379.9080003@gmail.com> <4B1076A8.6060104@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: > >> You're using Ubuntu, no? Why not just install it from Debian Multimedia? >> > > silly question, how do fetch from Debian Multimedia? > Go to http://debian-multimedia.org/ and add the appropriate repo to your sources, either in sources.list or in Synaptic. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 01:47:46 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:47:46 -0500 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> <4B107379.9080003@gmail.com> <4B1076A8.6060104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B108142.4060305@gmail.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Thomas Milne wrote: >> >>> You're using Ubuntu, no? Why not just install it from Debian Multimedia? >>> >> silly question, how do fetch from Debian Multimedia? >> > > Go to http://debian-multimedia.org/ and add the appropriate repo to > your sources, either in sources.list or in Synaptic. > Thanks again, got it built from source with most of the codecs and thanks for pointing out --enable-x11grab, I missed that 1st time around, so went through all the config option slowly 2nd time around =) -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 02:11:11 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:11:11 -0500 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: <4B108142.4060305-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> <4B107379.9080003@gmail.com> <4B1076A8.6060104@gmail.com> <4B108142.4060305@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Rajinder Yadav >> wrote: >>> >>> Thomas Milne wrote: >>> >>>> You're using Ubuntu, no? Why not just install it from Debian Multimedia? >>>> >>> silly question, how do fetch from Debian Multimedia? >>> >> >> Go to http://debian-multimedia.org/ and add the appropriate repo to >> your sources, either in sources.list or in Synaptic. >> > Thanks again, got it built from source with most of the codecs and thanks > for pointing out --enable-x11grab, I missed that 1st time around, so went > through all the config option slowly 2nd time around =) > If that was your first time building ffmpeg, you did better than me. First time I tried it took hours. Mostly because I was using Mandriva and had to run ./configure about 400 times to figure out all the needed libraries :-\ Hope it works for you, ffmpeg has never let me down. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 02:38:45 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:38:45 -0500 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> <4B107379.9080003@gmail.com> <4B1076A8.6060104@gmail.com> <4B108142.4060305@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B108D35.50306@gmail.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Thomas Milne wrote: >>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Rajinder Yadav >>> wrote: >>>> Thomas Milne wrote: >>>> >>>>> You're using Ubuntu, no? Why not just install it from Debian Multimedia? >>>>> >>>> silly question, how do fetch from Debian Multimedia? >>>> >>> Go to http://debian-multimedia.org/ and add the appropriate repo to >>> your sources, either in sources.list or in Synaptic. >>> >> Thanks again, got it built from source with most of the codecs and thanks >> for pointing out --enable-x11grab, I missed that 1st time around, so went >> through all the config option slowly 2nd time around =) >> > > If that was your first time building ffmpeg, you did better than me. > First time I tried it took hours. Mostly because I was using Mandriva > and had to run ./configure about 400 times to figure out all the > needed libraries :-\ > > Hope it works for you, ffmpeg has never let me down. > I had to do a few aptitude search/install, i think it was less than a dozen for dev (header files) (aptitude search is a life-saver) I got the screen capture working, but how do i get a bitmap sharpness? like true avi output in Windows? Right now, I am getting really poor lossey output, I increased the bitrate => -b 100000 any suggestions, am I missing something? thanks! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 02:51:00 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:51:00 -0500 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: <4B108D35.50306-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> <4B107379.9080003@gmail.com> <4B1076A8.6060104@gmail.com> <4B108142.4060305@gmail.com> <4B108D35.50306@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Rajinder Yadav >> wrote: >>> >>> Thomas Milne wrote: >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Rajinder Yadav >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thomas Milne wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You're using Ubuntu, no? Why not just install it from Debian >>>>>> Multimedia? >>>>>> >>>>> silly question, how do fetch from Debian Multimedia? >>>>> >>>> Go to http://debian-multimedia.org/ and add the appropriate repo to >>>> your sources, either in sources.list or in Synaptic. >>>> >>> Thanks again, got it built from source with most of the codecs and thanks >>> for pointing out --enable-x11grab, I missed that 1st time around, so went >>> through all the config option slowly 2nd time around =) >>> >> >> If that was your first time building ffmpeg, you did better than me. >> First time I tried it took hours. Mostly because I was using Mandriva >> and had to run ./configure about 400 times to figure out all the >> needed libraries :-\ >> >> Hope it works for you, ffmpeg has never let me down. >> > > I had to do a few aptitude search/install, > i think it was less than a dozen for dev (header files) > (aptitude search is a life-saver) > > I got the screen capture working, but how do i get a bitmap sharpness? like > true avi output in Windows? Right now, I am getting really poor lossey > output, I increased the bitrate => -b 100000 > > any suggestions, am I missing something? thanks! > It's been awhile, and ffmpeg can be a moving target, but I think what you want is -vcodec xvid. Not sure if 100000 is a valid bitrate for that, though. Also, you can set size with -s, and framerate with -r. -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 03:15:46 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:15:46 -0500 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> <4B107379.9080003@gmail.com> <4B1076A8.6060104@gmail.com> <4B108142.4060305@gmail.com> <4B108D35.50306@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B1095E2.50905@gmail.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Thomas Milne wrote: >>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Rajinder Yadav >>> wrote: >>>> Thomas Milne wrote: >>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Rajinder Yadav >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Thomas Milne wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> You're using Ubuntu, no? Why not just install it from Debian >>>>>>> Multimedia? >>>>>>> >>>>>> silly question, how do fetch from Debian Multimedia? >>>>>> >>>>> Go to http://debian-multimedia.org/ and add the appropriate repo to >>>>> your sources, either in sources.list or in Synaptic. >>>>> >>>> Thanks again, got it built from source with most of the codecs and thanks >>>> for pointing out --enable-x11grab, I missed that 1st time around, so went >>>> through all the config option slowly 2nd time around =) >>>> >>> If that was your first time building ffmpeg, you did better than me. >>> First time I tried it took hours. Mostly because I was using Mandriva >>> and had to run ./configure about 400 times to figure out all the >>> needed libraries :-\ >>> >>> Hope it works for you, ffmpeg has never let me down. >>> >> I had to do a few aptitude search/install, >> i think it was less than a dozen for dev (header files) >> (aptitude search is a life-saver) >> >> I got the screen capture working, but how do i get a bitmap sharpness? like >> true avi output in Windows? Right now, I am getting really poor lossey >> output, I increased the bitrate => -b 100000 >> >> any suggestions, am I missing something? thanks! >> > > It's been awhile, and ffmpeg can be a moving target, but I think what > you want is -vcodec xvid. Not sure if 100000 is a valid bitrate for > that, though. Also, you can set size with -s, and framerate with -r. > I will have to tinker around with ffmpeg later, I'm happy I am able to grab my desktop now, thanks again! -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 04:23:30 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:23:30 -0500 Subject: Computer Books to Give Away Message-ID: <4B10A5C2.5040004@dinamis.com> Hello, I have some older computer books I'm giving away on Craigslist . Of interest to this crowd in particular might be one X11 programming book and some Maple Orchard and ClubMac mags from the '90s. Search for [2k9fp] to find all that I'm giving away. I'll give subscribers to this list first shot at this as long as the items are picked up this weekend. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 06:10:27 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:10:27 -0500 Subject: [OT] Tactical Nuclear Penguin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091128011027.41c5c2e4.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:57:23 -0500 (EST) "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/8380412.stm > > "a beer such as Tactical Nuclear Penguin should be drunk in "spirit > sized measures". > > A warning on the label states: "This is an extremely strong beer; > it should be enjoyed in small servings and with an air of > aristocratic nonchalance. In exactly the same manner that you would > enjoy a fine whisky, a Frank Zappa album or a visit from a friendly > yet anxious ghost." What is the difference between 32% beer and whiskey? This is not the direct product of fermentation. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 06:33:59 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:33:59 -0500 Subject: [OT] Tactical Nuclear Penguin In-Reply-To: <20091128011027.41c5c2e4.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128011027.41c5c2e4.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20091128013359.ee47d5a7.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:10:27 -0500 Howard Gibson wrote: > On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:57:23 -0500 (EST) > "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/8380412.stm > > > > "a beer such as Tactical Nuclear Penguin should be drunk in "spirit > > sized measures". > > > > A warning on the label states: "This is an extremely strong beer; > > it should be enjoyed in small servings and with an air of > > aristocratic nonchalance. In exactly the same manner that you would > > enjoy a fine whisky, a Frank Zappa album or a visit from a friendly > > yet anxious ghost." > > What is the difference between 32% beer and whiskey? This is not the direct product of fermentation. According to the article linked by Fark.com, the beer is aged at -20C for three weeks. They used to make Applejack by freezing apple cider, and and using the first part to melt. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 07:15:36 2009 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 02:15:36 -0500 Subject: Linux and the New York Stock Exchange Message-ID: Interesting factoid: "NYSE's systems run under high pressure and tight constraints. They process some three billion transactions per day - more than Google does - and those transactions need to execute in less than one millisecond. Customers can switch to competing exchanges instantly and for almost no cost, so if NYSE's systems are not performing, its customers will vanish. A typical trading day involves the processing of 1.5TB of data; some 8 petabytes of data are kept online. And this whole operation runs on Linux... Downtime is to be limited to 90 seconds per year." I would concede this is a bit more hard-core than my Asus netbook running Debian Squeeze... :-) Source: http://lwn.net/Articles/361508/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kirtijee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 07:50:44 2009 From: kirtijee-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kirti Prakash) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 02:50:44 -0500 Subject: Linux and the New York Stock Exchange In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4fc65a520911272350ie9d10b3jb229c7cff9cfe98e@mail.gmail.com> Interesting read. On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Interesting factoid: > > "NYSE's systems run under high pressure and tight constraints. They > process some three billion transactions per day - more than Google > does - and those transactions need to execute in less than one > millisecond. Customers can switch to competing exchanges instantly and > for almost no cost, so if NYSE's systems are not performing, its > customers will vanish. A typical trading day involves the processing > of 1.5TB of data; some 8 petabytes of data are kept online. And this > whole operation runs on Linux... Downtime is to be limited to 90 > seconds per year." > > I would concede this is a bit more hard-core than my Asus netbook > running Debian Squeeze... :-) > > Source: http://lwn.net/Articles/361508/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 18:36:33 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:36:33 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? Message-ID: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> The subject says it all. I need something that will print black and white, including graphics, without costing an arm and a leg for ink. It will have to be USB-connected, because serial and parallel ports are no more. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 19:34:11 2009 From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:34:11 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <20091128183633.GA18942-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > The subject says it all. I need something that will print black and > white, including graphics, without costing an arm and a leg for ink. It > will have to be USB-connected, because serial and parallel ports are no > more. > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I have a Samsung ML-2010 Laser which has Linux Drivers and does 1200 DPI. Still on original toner cart. It was around $100 new. -- Mark Lane -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 20:42:57 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:42:57 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <20091128183633.GA18942-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4B118B51.80300@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > The subject says it all. I need something that will print black and > white, including graphics, without costing an arm and a leg for ink. It > will have to be USB-connected, because serial and parallel ports are no > more. > > Either of these (both under $100) should do the job for you: Brother 2140 http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=017923&cid=PTR.392.276 Samsung ML 1640 http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019597&cid=PTR.392.276 HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 21:05:05 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:05:05 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <4B118B51.80300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <4B118B51.80300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570911281305v676048ackae5050f7a738f730@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 15:42, John McGregor wrote: > Walter Dnes wrote: >> >> ?The subject says it all. ?I need something that will print black and >> white, including graphics, without costing an arm and a leg for ink. ?It >> will have to be USB-connected, because serial and parallel ports are no >> more. >> >> > > Either of these (both under $100) should do the job for you: > > Brother 2140 > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=017923&cid=PTR.392.276 > > Samsung ML 1640 > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019597&cid=PTR.392.276 > > HTH > > John I am selling my printer for $150 (retail price), it's a Brother MFC-495cw, I never opened the box, I won it, but it turns out I don't have the space for a printer. Should be compatible with Linux; here is the link to Brother's listing: http://www.brother.ca/en/all-in-one/description.asp?prodid=3114121813251781276&features=on -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon Sent from Toronto, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 21:06:57 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:06:57 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <4B118B51.80300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <4B118B51.80300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20091128210657.GA19325@waltdnes.org> On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 03:42:57PM -0500, John McGregor wrote > Either of these (both under $100) should do the job for you: > > Brother 2140 > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=017923&cid=PTR.392.276 > > Samsung ML 1640 > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019597&cid=PTR.392.276 Thanks. The Samsung ad explicitly mentions linux, but as long as cups or whatever supports it, that's OK. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 21:15:01 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:15:01 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <20091128183633.GA18942-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4B1192D5.3060109@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > The subject says it all. I need something that will print black and > white, including graphics, without costing an arm and a leg for ink. It > will have to be USB-connected, because serial and parallel ports are no > more. > > A while ago, I bought a Dell laser printer, which was a rebadged Samsung. It works well with Linux as Samsung printers often do. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 28 21:42:23 2009 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:42:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <20091128210657.GA19325-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <4B118B51.80300@rogers.com> <20091128210657.GA19325@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1118.99.253.254.243.1259444543.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> As to what *not* to buy, I'd list the Lexmark C530 and advise you to be suspicious of Lexmark printers in general. We have the C530 and a new cartridge is about $130. The darn thing takes four of them, and they don't seem to last very long. I recently bought a Brother HL-2170 black and white printer for less than the cost of a cartridge for the Lexmark. It took a bit of fiddling to get it running under linux, but it now works properly. (It installed very easily under Windows XP, and required no install to be recognized by Mac OS-X). Peter Yes, I know I'm top-posting. > On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 03:42:57PM -0500, John McGregor wrote > >> Either of these (both under $100) should do the job for you: >> >> Brother 2140 >> http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=017923&cid=PTR.392.276 >> >> Samsung ML 1640 >> http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019597&cid=PTR.392.276 > > Thanks. The Samsung ad explicitly mentions linux, but as long as cups > or whatever supports it, that's OK. > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 29 16:47:07 2009 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 11:47:07 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4B12A58B.10604@golden.net> Mark Lane wrote: > > > On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Walter Dnes > wrote: > > The subject says it all. I need something that will print black and > white, including graphics, without costing an arm and a leg for > ink. It > will have to be USB-connected, because serial and parallel ports > are no > more. > > -- > Walter Dnes > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > I have a Samsung ML-2010 Laser which has Linux Drivers and does 1200 > DPI. Still on original toner cart. It was around $100 new. > > -- > Mark Lane > > Ditto here. I'm using my 3rd toner and the one I currently am using is a toner I picked up here http://www.etoner.ca/ No issues. My ML2010 is connected to my home network using a netgear PS121. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 29 17:24:00 2009 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 12:24:00 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <20091128183633.GA18942-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1259515440.14258.1347523071@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:36:33 -0500, "Walter Dnes" said: > The subject says it all. I need something that will print black and > white, including graphics, without costing an arm and a leg for ink. It > will have to be USB-connected, because serial and parallel ports are no > more. Since you didn't say how much printing you will be doing, I'll assume you mean for low-volume use. Business inkjets are cheaper to run at higher usage levels but are costlier, bigger, and you'd be paying for features you don't need. The 2008 HP c4400 series (USB) and c4500 series (USB and wireless) are decent quality All-in-One printers that can take large size cartridges (74XL black, about 700 page yield and 75XL colour, about 400 page yield). The wireless setup isn't yet supported under Linux (but coming reportedly) - you need Windows or a Mac to initially get it on the network. The 2009 c4600 and c4700 All-in-Ones also take larger cartridges but with somewhat lower yields. The wireless setup of other network capable HP's can be configured from the printer's front panel but you'll pay more for these. The printers with Ethernet connectors of course don't need network setup - they just use DHCP. ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 03:40:40 2009 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 22:40:40 -0500 Subject: preview video while ffmpeg is recording Message-ID: I am trying my hand at learning shell scripting beyond 1-2 liners... and I am trying to create a script that uses ffmpeg to record video from a webcam and vlc to display a preview of the video while recording. After trial-and-(much)error I find... This command captures the video successfully: ffmpeg -f oss -i /dev/dsp -f video4linux2 -qscale 1 -r 30 -s 320x240 -i /dev/video0 ${OUTPUT} This command streams video from /dev/video0: vlc v4l2:///dev/video0 This command streams from a (already existing) video file: vlc ${INPUT} --sout "#display{noaudio,delay=4000}" Now I am trying to combine the 2 activites together - record a video in ffmpeg and simultaneously see a preview in cvlc - and am kinda hazy about how to make this happen. I have tried: - running cvlc first followed by ffmpeg... also tried the reverse - piping ffmpeg's video output into clvc: ffmpeg -f oss -i /dev/dsp -f video4linux2 -qscale 1 -r 30 -s 320x240 -i /dev/video0 ${OUTPUT} | vlc - --sout "#display{noaudio,delay=4000}" ... and googled and played around with settings but no joy. I have also started to investigate using mplayer in place of cvlc... either would be fine for my purpose. Any help getting these 2 programs to play nice together would be greatly appreciated! -- Daniel Armstrong http://wooush.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 04:43:03 2009 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David Christopher Chipman) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:43:03 -0500 Subject: preview video while ffmpeg is recording In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B134D57.3090805@ican.net> Daniel Armstrong wrote: > I am trying my hand at learning shell scripting beyond 1-2 liners... > and I am trying to create a script that uses ffmpeg to record video > from a webcam and vlc to display a preview of the video while > recording. > > After trial-and-(much)error I find... > > This command captures the video successfully: > > ffmpeg -f oss -i /dev/dsp -f video4linux2 -qscale 1 -r 30 -s 320x240 > -i /dev/video0 ${OUTPUT} > > This command streams video from /dev/video0: > > vlc v4l2:///dev/video0 > > This command streams from a (already existing) video file: > > vlc ${INPUT} --sout "#display{noaudio,delay=4000}" > > Now I am trying to combine the 2 activites together - record a video > in ffmpeg and simultaneously see a preview in cvlc - and am kinda hazy > about how to make this happen. I have tried: > > > Hi Daniel, Did you try running ffmpeg in the background, then starting the video player? If not, stick an ampersand (&") on the end of the ffmpeg command line. -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 05:58:58 2009 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 00:58:58 -0500 Subject: preview video while ffmpeg is recording In-Reply-To: <4B134D57.3090805-rYHPKw+MWrk@public.gmane.org> References: <4B134D57.3090805@ican.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 11:43 PM, David Christopher Chipman wrote: > Daniel Armstrong wrote: >> >> I am trying my hand at learning shell scripting beyond 1-2 liners... >> and I am trying to create a script that uses ffmpeg to record video >> from a webcam and vlc to display a preview of the video while >> recording. >> > > Hi Daniel, > > Did you try running ffmpeg in the background, then starting the video > player? If not, stick an ampersand (&") ?on the end of the ffmpeg command > line. Hi David... Yes I did - ffmpeg doesn't like being sent to the background. It fails to record video and requires a 'kill -9' to shut off the webcam. Besides I want to see the recording output info in the console and be able to enter 'q' to quit the program. Thanks for the suggestion, though. Can multiple programs access the data from /dev/video0 at the same time? I don't know... I am trying to find that out now. What would be ideal would be something like... script opens a preview window in cvlc/mplayer/other and streams the video from /dev/video0 then launches ffmpeg to start recording the video and saving to file ${OUTPUT}. I have the recording video part working okay in my script... just hung up on the preview part. It would be good to see what the camera sees while recording. -- Daniel Armstrong http://wooush.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 15:50:33 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:50:33 -0800 Subject: Virtual secondary screen on another screen Message-ID: <3a97ef0911300750n74c672fcub761e762a0b6cd9c@mail.gmail.com> Just sharing a neat combination: x0vncserver running on a secondary machine (which is beside my main laptop). x2vnc running on my laptop. The second screen is then accessible by scrolling my mouse off to the right of my main desktop, just as if I had an extended desktop with two monitors connected to the same machine (of course things run separately on machine two). Anyhow, just thought I'd share as it's quite a bit more useful in some cases than regular VNC or X-over-SSH (such as not taking up extra space with a X/VNC window on my *main* desktop). - TJA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 15:55:24 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:55:24 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <4B1192D5.3060109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <4B1192D5.3060109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20091130155524.GA761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 04:15:01PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > A while ago, I bought a Dell laser printer, which was a rebadged > Samsung. It works well with Linux as Samsung printers often do. Does it use sansung cartridges though or did they change the shape slightly to make it dell only (like they like doing on the inkjets)? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 15:59:07 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:59:07 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <1259515440.14258.1347523071-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <1259515440.14258.1347523071@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20091130155907.GB761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:24:00PM -0500, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:36:33 -0500, "Walter Dnes" > said: > > The subject says it all. I need something that will print black and > > white, including graphics, without costing an arm and a leg for ink. It > > will have to be USB-connected, because serial and parallel ports are no > > more. > > Since you didn't say how much printing you will be doing, I'll assume > you mean for low-volume use. Business inkjets are cheaper to run at > higher usage levels but are costlier, bigger, and you'd be paying for > features you don't need. > > The 2008 HP c4400 series (USB) and c4500 series (USB and wireless) are > decent quality All-in-One printers that can take large size cartridges > (74XL black, about 700 page yield and 75XL colour, about 400 page > yield). The wireless setup isn't yet supported under Linux (but coming > reportedly) - you need Windows or a Mac to initially get it on the > network. The 2009 c4600 and c4700 All-in-Ones also take larger > cartridges but with somewhat lower yields. I would _never_ recommend an HP inkjet (and be hesitant on their lasers too). The HP 8050 inkjets we have at work (which are by the looks of it very expensive) are a disaster. In the first 3 months of use they have failed at least 5 times each (we have multiple of them) and had very frequent paper jams in hard to get to places. The laser printers we used to have never failed. If they can't even make a high end expensive printer that works, what makes you think they can make a cheap one that works. For inkjet that works, buy epson. For laser that works, well xerox is nice, a few others are too. > The wireless setup of other network capable HP's can be configured from > the printer's front panel but you'll pay more for these. The printers > with Ethernet connectors of course don't need network setup - they just > use DHCP. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 15:59:15 2009 From: vanaltj-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jon VanAlten) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:59:15 -0500 Subject: Virtual secondary screen on another screen In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0911300750n74c672fcub761e762a0b6cd9c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911300750n74c672fcub761e762a0b6cd9c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5390d2750911300759s3362aff2gcb3f0a5ee833938e@mail.gmail.com> I might not understand your setup, but this sounds like the scenario where I would use something like synergy. http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ cheers, jon On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Just sharing a neat combination: > > x0vncserver running on a secondary machine (which is beside my main laptop). > x2vnc running on my laptop. > > The second screen is then accessible by scrolling my mouse off to the > right of my main desktop, just as if I had an extended desktop with > two monitors connected to the same machine (of course things run > separately on machine two). > > Anyhow, just thought I'd share as it's quite a bit more useful in some > cases than regular VNC or X-over-SSH (such as not taking up extra > space with a ?X/VNC window on my *main* desktop). > > - TJA > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 16:02:07 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:02:07 -0500 Subject: Linux and the New York Stock Exchange In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091130160207.GC761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 02:15:36AM -0500, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Interesting factoid: > > "NYSE's systems run under high pressure and tight constraints. They > process some three billion transactions per day - more than Google > does - and those transactions need to execute in less than one > millisecond. Customers can switch to competing exchanges instantly and > for almost no cost, so if NYSE's systems are not performing, its > customers will vanish. A typical trading day involves the processing > of 1.5TB of data; some 8 petabytes of data are kept online. And this > whole operation runs on Linux... Downtime is to be limited to 90 > seconds per year." > > I would concede this is a bit more hard-core than my Asus netbook > running Debian Squeeze... :-) > > Source: http://lwn.net/Articles/361508/ And of course London is going to use a linux based system, as is a number of other places (with the same software). They were using (or were planning to use) some microsoft software which was apparently not flexible enough, took to long to get changes made to, too expensive, and too slow. The linux based system is about 10 times faster at doing trades. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 16:21:12 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:21:12 -0500 Subject: Virtual secondary screen on another screen In-Reply-To: <5390d2750911300759s3362aff2gcb3f0a5ee833938e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911300750n74c672fcub761e762a0b6cd9c@mail.gmail.com> <5390d2750911300759s3362aff2gcb3f0a5ee833938e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280911300821v18b2371dxce72de2c82ea1eeb@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/30 Jon VanAlten : > I might not understand your setup, but this sounds like the scenario > where I would use something like synergy. > > http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Just sharing a neat combination: >> >> x0vncserver running on a secondary machine (which is beside my main laptop). >> x2vnc running on my laptop. >> >> The second screen is then accessible by scrolling my mouse off to the >> right of my main desktop, just as if I had an extended desktop with >> two monitors connected to the same machine (of course things run >> separately on machine two). >> >> Anyhow, just thought I'd share as it's quite a bit more useful in some >> cases than regular VNC or X-over-SSH (such as not taking up extra >> space with a ?X/VNC window on my *main* desktop). I used x2vnc (and ssh) for years to use one mouse and keyboard across two screens, one running from a Windows 98 (and later XP) box, the other running Linux. Worked really well. But for most applications, synergy does seem to have replaced that combination (although you still need to throw ssh into the mix if you want it to be secure). I really wish it were easier to figure out how to do stuff like this: but first you have to formulate the question ("I want to run two computers on two screens with two different OSes with one mouse and keyboard" - and you'd have to believe it's possible before even putting voice to the question), then you have to know how to search (Google is your friend most of the time, but when you don't know the name of the program you're going to end up using it can be a tough search), and then you have to pray the online documentation is good (ah, the open source documentation crapshoot ...). All this to say I appreciate hints like this on this list - it makes me think about the possibilities. For example, Daniel's explorations into ffmpeg and webcams is going to be really useful to me very shortly. In this case I already knew about x2vnc and synergy, but I bet someone's going to be pleased to read about them. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 16:32:00 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:32:00 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <20091130155524.GA761-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <4B1192D5.3060109@rogers.com> <20091130155524.GA761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B13F380.60706@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 04:15:01PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > >> A while ago, I bought a Dell laser printer, which was a rebadged >> Samsung. It works well with Linux as Samsung printers often do. >> > Does it use sansung cartridges though or did they change the shape > slightly to make it dell only (like they like doing on the inkjets)? > > I've never had occasion to buy one, so I don't know. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 16:51:27 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:51:27 -0500 Subject: Virtual secondary screen on another screen In-Reply-To: <1f13df280911300821v18b2371dxce72de2c82ea1eeb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0911300750n74c672fcub761e762a0b6cd9c@mail.gmail.com> <5390d2750911300759s3362aff2gcb3f0a5ee833938e@mail.gmail.com> <1f13df280911300821v18b2371dxce72de2c82ea1eeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > 2009/11/30 Jon VanAlten : (reduced) > All this to say I appreciate hints like this on this list - it makes > me think about the possibilities. ?For example, Daniel's explorations > into ffmpeg and webcams is going to be really useful to me very > shortly. ?In this case I already knew about x2vnc and synergy, but I > bet someone's going to be pleased to read about them. I have to agree with Giles, it's nice to ping people what you're doing because it might help spark ideas and interest. I just started playing with ffmpeg after Thomas suggest that I look at ffmpeg, and I just read what Daniel's doing with ffmpeg and I said WOW, that's really cool. > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 17:04:32 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:04:32 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <4B13F380.60706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <4B1192D5.3060109@rogers.com> <20091130155524.GA761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B13F380.60706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20091130170432.GD761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:32:00AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > I've never had occasion to buy one, so I don't know. If you have to get toner from dell, it might end up a lot more expensive than expected. Hopefully you don't. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 17:06:27 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:06:27 -0500 Subject: Linux and the New York Stock Exchange In-Reply-To: <20091130160207.GC761-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20091130160207.GC761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20091130170627.GA4280@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:02:07AM -0500, wrote: > On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 02:15:36AM -0500, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > > Interesting factoid: > > > > "NYSE's systems run under high pressure and tight constraints. They > > process some three billion transactions per day - more than Google > > does - and those transactions need to execute in less than one > > millisecond. Customers can switch to competing exchanges instantly and > > for almost no cost, so if NYSE's systems are not performing, its > > customers will vanish. A typical trading day involves the processing > > of 1.5TB of data; some 8 petabytes of data are kept online. And this > > whole operation runs on Linux... Downtime is to be limited to 90 > > seconds per year." > > > > I would concede this is a bit more hard-core than my Asus netbook > > running Debian Squeeze... :-) > > > > Source: http://lwn.net/Articles/361508/ > > And of course London is going to use a linux based system, as is a number > of other places (with the same software). They were using (or were > planning to use) some microsoft software which was apparently not flexible > enough, took to long to get changes made to, too expensive, and too slow. > The linux based system is about 10 times faster at doing trades. I see London's system crashed again last week (they are still using the microsoft system). Hopefully they can switch to the new one soon. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/26/lse_crash_again/ -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 17:07:17 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:07:17 -0500 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: <4B106715.9030504-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091130170717.GE761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 06:56:05PM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Is there a solid desktop capture app for Linux, the open source one I > found are pretty crap, some don't work, one of them had ugly artifacts. Capture what? For images I like ksnapshot. Works rather well I find. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 17:32:34 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:32:34 -0500 Subject: Linux and the New York Stock Exchange In-Reply-To: <20091130170627.GA4280-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20091130160207.GC761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20091130170627.GA4280@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B1401B2.5050606@tmis.ca> http://blogs.computerworld.com/london_stock_exchange_to_abandon_failed_windows_platform http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid39_gci1367868,00.html# http://rhcustomers.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/rh_cs_chicagomercexchange_1215054_print.pdf I think they should keep things simple. Is JBOSS mission critical? I used to work for traders, so I like Linux and the Market. Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:02:07AM -0500, wrote: >> On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 02:15:36AM -0500, Daniel Armstrong wrote: >>> Interesting factoid: >>> >>> "NYSE's systems run under high pressure and tight constraints. They >>> process some three billion transactions per day - more than Google >>> does - and those transactions need to execute in less than one >>> millisecond. Customers can switch to competing exchanges instantly and >>> for almost no cost, so if NYSE's systems are not performing, its >>> customers will vanish. A typical trading day involves the processing >>> of 1.5TB of data; some 8 petabytes of data are kept online. And this >>> whole operation runs on Linux... Downtime is to be limited to 90 >>> seconds per year." >>> >>> I would concede this is a bit more hard-core than my Asus netbook >>> running Debian Squeeze... :-) >>> >>> Source: http://lwn.net/Articles/361508/ >> And of course London is going to use a linux based system, as is a number >> of other places (with the same software). They were using (or were >> planning to use) some microsoft software which was apparently not flexible >> enough, took to long to get changes made to, too expensive, and too slow. >> The linux based system is about 10 times faster at doing trades. > > I see London's system crashed again last week (they are still using the > microsoft system). Hopefully they can switch to the new one soon. > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/26/lse_crash_again/ > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 18:37:33 2009 From: daniel-r35aSzp7v8jQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:37:33 -0500 Subject: preview video while ffmpeg is recording In-Reply-To: References: <4B134D57.3090805@ican.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > Can multiple programs access the data from /dev/video0 at the same > time? I don't know... I am trying to find that out now. > > What would be ideal would be something like... script opens a preview > window in cvlc/mplayer/other and streams the video from /dev/video0 > then launches ffmpeg to start recording the video and saving to file > ${OUTPUT}. > > I have the recording video part working okay in my script... just hung > up on the preview part. It would be good to see what the camera sees > while recording. Just to follow up... I don't think multiple applications can be hitting the same /dev/video[DEVICE] at the same time. You need to send the output to a file first... It would appear I want to use the 'tee' command to take the output of ffmpeg and save it to a video file and pass it along to vlc for viewing. If I run: ffmpeg -f oss -i /dev/dsp -f video4linux2 -qscale 1 -r 30 -s 320x240 -i /dev/video0 -f avi - | tee output.avi | vlc - ... it works (poorly)... that is, it takes the output of my netbook's webcam and saves it to a video file *and* opens a preview window in vlc while recording. Now I say poorly because vlc has problems with buffering and sound is kaput in the resulting video - which plays back too fast - but, hey, those are (I hope) fine-tuning issues. I will look into what I need to do to get it working properly. -- Daniel Armstrong http://wooush.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 19:45:09 2009 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:45:09 -0500 Subject: [whimsy] Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <20091130155907.GB761-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <1259515440.14258.1347523071@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20091130155907.GB761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1259610309.20476.204.camel@cougar-hardy> On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 10:59 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I would _never_ recommend an HP inkjet (and be hesitant on their lasers > too). I would be quite happy to recommend an HP laser. I have a LaserJet4 Plus, 321,000 pages printed up to the insertion of current toner cartridge, and still running. As for a recent HP, I too would be more hesitant. Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 19:56:10 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:56:10 -0500 Subject: [whimsy] Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <1259610309.20476.204.camel@cougar-hardy> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <1259515440.14258.1347523071@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20091130155907.GB761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1259610309.20476.204.camel@cougar-hardy> Message-ID: <4B14235A.2000506@alteeve.com> Terrence Enger wrote: > On Mon, 2009-11-30 at 10:59 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> I would _never_ recommend an HP inkjet (and be hesitant on their lasers >> too). > > I would be quite happy to recommend an HP laser. I have a LaserJet4 > Plus, 321,000 pages printed up to the insertion of current toner > cartridge, and still running. > > As for a recent HP, I too would be more hesitant. > > Cheers, > Terry. As a former die-hard supporter of HP LaserJet printers who also lost faith... I'd highly recommend Brother Laser printers. They've got great Linux support and are decent printers for the money. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 20:10:23 2009 From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:10:23 -0500 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: <20091130170717.GE761-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> <20091130170717.GE761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 06:56:05PM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> Is there a solid desktop capture app for Linux, the open source one I >> found are pretty crap, some don't work, one of them had ugly artifacts. > > Capture what? > > For images I like ksnapshot. ?Works rather well I find. I like ksnapshot, I think it's cool, however I wanted to capture video, like a screen cast =) http://media.rubyonrails.org/video/rails_blog_2.mov > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav http://DevMentor.org Do Good! - Share Freely, Enrich and Empower people to Transform their lives. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 20:30:34 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:30:34 -0500 Subject: Longshot; Conditional '/etc/hosts' depending on an iface's subnet? Message-ID: <4B142B6A.4040907@alteeve.com> Hi all, I really doubt this is possible, but is there a way to have entries in '/etc/hosts' return an IP depending on what a given interface's subnet is? The reason I ask is that when I am at work, I want a given name to resolve the internal IP, but when I am out I need it to resolve to it's external IP. I know I could do this with an internal DNS, but I am hoping there might be an easier way to do it. Currently I just use two different names. Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 21:16:26 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:16:26 -0500 Subject: Longshot; Conditional '/etc/hosts' depending on an iface's subnet? In-Reply-To: <4B142B6A.4040907-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B142B6A.4040907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > ?I really doubt this is possible, but is there a way to have entries in > '/etc/hosts' return an IP depending on what a given interface's subnet is? > > ?The reason I ask is that when I am at work, I want a given name to resolve > the internal IP, but when I am out I need it to resolve to it's external IP. > I know I could do this with an internal DNS, but I am hoping there might be > an easier way to do it. Currently I just use two different names. 1. Two different names works... 2. Creating custom DNS behaviour could presumably work... 3. Is it conceivable that you might be able to use aliasing in whatever service you're using? For instance, when referencing my machines at home from anywhere else, I'd *ALWAYS* be using ssh as the means of access, hence what has made sense to do has been to put an entry in my work $HOME/.ssh/config file containing the "moral equivalent" to what's in /etc/hosts at home. So, if I'm at home, I'll most often be sshing to a host called "wolfe". At work, $HOME/.ssh/config has a "wolfe" entry that points to that same host. It works for me :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Pablo Picasso - "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 21:49:23 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:49:23 -0500 Subject: [whimsy] Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <1259610309.20476.204.camel@cougar-hardy> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <1259515440.14258.1347523071@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20091130155907.GB761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1259610309.20476.204.camel@cougar-hardy> Message-ID: <20091130214923.GF761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 02:45:09PM -0500, Terrence Enger wrote: > I would be quite happy to recommend an HP laser. I have a LaserJet4 > Plus, 321,000 pages printed up to the insertion of current toner > cartridge, and still running. The 4plus was a rare reliable model. The 4L for example was a disaster. Some of the old ones were indestructible. That was HP of a different era though. Some of the original HP Deskjets still run too. So they were capable of making reliable inkjets once upon a time. They still printed pretty awful quality wise but they did so consistently and reliably at least. > As for a recent HP, I too would be more hesitant. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 21:54:47 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:54:47 -0500 Subject: [whimsy] Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <4B14235A.2000506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <1259515440.14258.1347523071@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20091130155907.GB761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1259610309.20476.204.camel@cougar-hardy> <4B14235A.2000506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20091130215447.GG761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 02:56:10PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > As a former die-hard supporter of HP LaserJet printers who also lost > faith... I'd highly recommend Brother Laser printers. They've got great > Linux support and are decent printers for the money. The couple of brother printers I have used has put them on my 'Never even think about it ever again' list. I will always think of Brother as 'cheap junk'. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 22:03:59 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:03:59 -0500 Subject: [whimsy] Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <20091130215447.GG761-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <1259515440.14258.1347523071@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20091130155907.GB761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1259610309.20476.204.camel@cougar-hardy> <4B14235A.2000506@alteeve.com> <20091130215447.GG761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4B14414F.10806@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 02:56:10PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> As a former die-hard supporter of HP LaserJet printers who also lost >> faith... I'd highly recommend Brother Laser printers. They've got great >> Linux support and are decent printers for the money. > > The couple of brother printers I have used has put them on my 'Never > even think about it ever again' list. I will always think of Brother as > 'cheap junk'. Well there ya go. :P That's the problem with a small sample set. I've got their label printer and a laser printer and have had good luck. However, "2" does not make a big enough sample set to really say for sure that they really are any good. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 22:12:10 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:12:10 -0500 Subject: [whimsy] Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <4B14414F.10806-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <1259515440.14258.1347523071@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20091130155907.GB761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1259610309.20476.204.camel@cougar-hardy> <4B14235A.2000506@alteeve.com> <20091130215447.GG761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B14414F.10806@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880911301412oc2c7769sd7c658c61a6510d@mail.gmail.com> I have an HP 1320, and am still on the toner that came with the printer. It seems good for my use , but I don't use it that often. On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 02:56:10PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> >>> As a former die-hard supporter of HP LaserJet printers who also lost >>> ?faith... I'd highly recommend Brother Laser printers. They've got great >>> ?Linux support and are decent printers for the money. >> >> The couple of brother printers I have used has put them on my 'Never >> even think about it ever again' list. ?I will always think of Brother as >> 'cheap junk'. > > Well there ya go. :P > > That's the problem with a small sample set. I've got their label printer and > a laser printer and have had good luck. However, "2" does not make a big > enough sample set to really say for sure that they really are any good. :) > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 22:23:41 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:23:41 -0500 Subject: [whimsy] Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <4B14414F.10806-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <1259515440.14258.1347523071@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20091130155907.GB761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1259610309.20476.204.camel@cougar-hardy> <4B14235A.2000506@alteeve.com> <20091130215447.GG761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B14414F.10806@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20091130222341.GH761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 05:03:59PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 02:56:10PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> As a former die-hard supporter of HP LaserJet printers who also lost >>> faith... I'd highly recommend Brother Laser printers. They've got >>> great Linux support and are decent printers for the money. >> >> The couple of brother printers I have used has put them on my 'Never >> even think about it ever again' list. I will always think of Brother as >> 'cheap junk'. > > Well there ya go. :P > > That's the problem with a small sample set. I've got their label printer > and a laser printer and have had good luck. However, "2" does not make a > big enough sample set to really say for sure that they really are any > good. :) Well one claimed to be HP Laserjet 3 compatible, and command set wise it was. Unfortunately the margins were 1/2" on the brother and 1/4" on the HP, so lots of printouts were cut off with no good way to fix it. You can't claim to be compatible with something if you are not entirely compatible. If I needed a laser printer (which I don't since I don't print much, so I have an Epson R260 inkjet, which works perfectly all the time), I would get a Xerox. A nice network enabled ipp compatible adobe postscript in hardware colour laser for about $500 just makes sense. You can't ever have driver issues with any OS on that. I think even my Amiga could print on that. A Xerox 6280DN (network and duplexor) is just over $500. Without the duplexor is about $475. It's not a $100 laser, but it will almost certainly cost less in toner to run, and be more reliable, have less driver issues, and it's colour and connect to the network which is handy for sharing. I would stay away from xero'x solid ink printers (having used one). They work really really well, they have amazing print quality, but at least on the one I dealt with, a power failure costs you about $5 in wasted ink. They simply are not to be turned off. I hope the new ones have fixed this, because it was completely insane. If you print 50000 pages a month (which they can easily do), then the occational power failure is irrelevant. If you print 2000 pages a month, you start to care. That was the only flaw (unless having printouts that can be rubbed off the page if you try hard enough counts as a flaw. The raised look of the print is kind of neat) it had. The laser printers just work. Avoid the win printers of course that they have at the lowest price. As long as you go for an actual postscript enabled model, they just work with everything. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 22:54:27 2009 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:54:27 +0000 Subject: [whimsy] Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: <20091130222341.GH761-FLMGYpZoEPUVyA88d6xpokBVGOaHBpLCRSdOKOjytBY@public.gmane.org> References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <1259515440.14258.1347523071@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20091130155907.GB761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1259610309.20476.204.camel@cougar-hardy> <4B14235A.2000506@alteeve.com> <20091130215447.GG761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4B14414F.10806@alteeve.com>,<20091130222341.GH761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: ---------------------------------------- > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:23:41 -0500 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [whimsy] Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? > From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org > > I would stay away from xero'x solid ink printers (having used one). > They work really really well, they have amazing print quality, but at > least on the one I dealt with, a power failure costs you about $5 in > wasted ink. They simply are not to be turned off. I hope the new ones > have fixed this, because it was completely insane. If you print 50000 > pages a month (which they can easily do), then the occational power > failure is irrelevant. If you print 2000 pages a month, you start > to care. That was the only flaw (unless having printouts that can be > rubbed off the page if you try hard enough counts as a flaw. The raised > look of the print is kind of neat) it had. > -- > Len Sorensen > -- By solid ink printers, do you mean the Xerox phaser printers? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 22:58:58 2009 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:58:58 +0000 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com>,<20091130170717.GE761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>, Message-ID: ---------------------------------------- > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:10:23 -0500 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: desktop capture > From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > I like ksnapshot, I think it's cool, however I wanted to capture > video, like a screen cast =) > > http://media.rubyonrails.org/video/rails_blog_2.mov > That was interesting. What did you end up using to do the capturing? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 23:01:56 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:01:56 -0500 Subject: [whimsy] Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? In-Reply-To: References: <20091128183633.GA18942@waltdnes.org> <1259515440.14258.1347523071@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20091130155907.GB761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1259610309.20476.204.camel@cougar-hardy> <4B14235A.2000506@alteeve.com> <20091130215447.GG761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20091130230156.GI761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:54:27PM +0000, john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:23:41 -0500 > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [whimsy] Linux-compatable printer that won't gouge me on ink? > > From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org > > > > > > I would stay away from xero'x solid ink printers (having used one). > > They work really really well, they have amazing print quality, but at > > least on the one I dealt with, a power failure costs you about $5 in > > wasted ink. They simply are not to be turned off. I hope the new ones > > have fixed this, because it was completely insane. If you print 50000 > > pages a month (which they can easily do), then the occational power > > failure is irrelevant. If you print 2000 pages a month, you start > > to care. That was the only flaw (unless having printouts that can be > > rubbed off the page if you try hard enough counts as a flaw. The raised > > look of the print is kind of neat) it had. > > -- > > Len Sorensen > > -- > By solid ink printers, do you mean the Xerox phaser printers? Yes. They happen to use the phaser name for laser printers too now though, so a bit confusing. Solid ink as in blocks of coloured wax. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 23:12:08 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:12:08 -0500 Subject: Interesting one day sale by sony. Message-ID: <20091130231208.GJ761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> I just saw this one on RFD: http://www.redflagdeals.com/deals/main.php/alldeals/comments/sonystyleca_7_days_of_deals_for_redflagdeals_day_1_free_blu_ray_player_w_br/# Apparently they normally sell it for $1799 (it does say sony on it after all) but today with coupon code it is $999. For a 11.1" laptop it sounds pretty neat. 2GB ram (which is more than netbooks typically have), 2.65pounds (about the same as many netbooks), carbon fiber case (never seen that one before), 1366x768 display (I think most are 1024x600 or maybe 1280x768 on some), 120GB HD (160GB seems more common on small laptops now), intel ABGN wifi (I have only seen bgn on netbooks so far), dvdrw drive (netbooks of course don't have those). Core 2 Duo U7700 CPU (not a slow poke atom). Certianly in the past I have read horror stories of sony vaio machines, so I have no idea what this one is like. The chipset, wifi, etc all sound like perfectly linux compatible choices. Sounds like a neat deal though. Oh well I don't need a small laptop, my 15.4" thinkpad is just fine. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 23:19:39 2009 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:19:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Longshot; Conditional '/etc/hosts' depending on an iface's subnet? In-Reply-To: <4B142B6A.4040907-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4B142B6A.4040907@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > I really doubt this is possible, but is there a way to have entries in > '/etc/hosts' return an IP depending on what a given interface's subnet is? > > The reason I ask is that when I am at work, I want a given name to resolve > the internal IP, but when I am out I need it to resolve to it's external IP. > I know I could do this with an internal DNS, but I am hoping there might be > an easier way to do it. Currently I just use two different names. Are these unqualified hostnames? I would recommend not putting fully qualified hostnames in '/etc/hosts' in case the real IP address changes. (1) Why not create two '/etc/hosts' files: '/etc/hosts.work', and '/etc/hosts.home'? Then copy the appropriate one into '/etc/hosts' when you bring the network up. (2) You could also periodically update '/etc/hosts' with a simple update script, that changes the IP address in question. For example: cd /etc update_hosts hosts.new cmp -s hosts hosts.new || mv hosts.new hosts I use this technique to allow dynamic hostnames access my server programs (eg: sshd) while running TCP Wrappers by creating unqualified hostnames that correspond to the fully qualified hostnames. TCP Wrappers will fail if the reverse IP address look up fails, but it won't fail if the IP address is in '/etc/hosts'. Perhaps surprising, the TCP Wrappers file, '/etc/hosts.allow', can still use the fully-qualified hostnames. -- Eric Battersby. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 23:19:55 2009 From: bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:19:55 -0800 Subject: preview video while ffmpeg is recording In-Reply-To: References: <4B134D57.3090805@ican.net> Message-ID: <712ca2da0911301519r507a3133t50065d0b0962eabe@mail.gmail.com> mplayer might work better than vlc for your buffering issues[1]. There's even options to control the buffer size if you need to. I would suggest Alsa or PulseAudio instead of OSS (I've always had issues with OSS, esp crackling/etc in audio at times), but it looks like ffmpeg might not support Alsa.[2] My suggestion would be to try mencoder for recording from your webcam. There are some suggestions here[3] under the iSight section for using mencoder. ffmpeg or gstreamer (thought only the gstreamer suggestion has a preview). There are also some webcam suggestions here[4]. You could probably just do what you are doing but with mencoder and pipe it through tee to mplayer. Mplayer might have a better handle on the video if you *don't* use an avi file (since it won't be indexed) but it should play it fine nonetheless. You might want to tell mplayer/vlc *not* to play back audio though (lest you end up with a feedback loop or just an annoying replay of all the sounds you hear). [1] http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/mplayer-users/2002-May/015919.html [2] http://old.nabble.com/Capture-audio-from-alsa-td15819836.html [3] http://www.odi.ch/prog/macbookpro/index.php [4] http://leese.info/projekte/webcam.htm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 30 23:27:48 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:27:48 -0500 Subject: desktop capture In-Reply-To: References: <4B106715.9030504@gmail.com> <20091130170717.GE761@caffeine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 06:56:05PM -0500, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >>> Is there a solid desktop capture app for Linux, the open source one I >>> found are pretty crap, some don't work, one of them had ugly artifacts. >> >> Capture what? >> >> For images I like ksnapshot. ?Works rather well I find. > > I like ksnapshot, I think it's cool, however I wanted to capture > video, like a screen cast =) > > http://media.rubyonrails.org/video/rails_blog_2.mov Hey, that turned out pretty good. It looks like you're working on a Mac... -- TBM -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists