From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 11:00:51 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 20:00:51 +0900 Subject: Setting static DNS Message-ID: <49FAD663.6070506@alteeve.com> Hi all, What is the trick to statically set a list of DNS servers to use when you otherwise get your IP address from a DHCP server? Specifically, I run my own Internet-facing DNS servers and would like to use them when I am roaming around wireless networks. Thanks! Madi PS - Ubuntu 9.04, but I think and Gnome-based system should be the same. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 11:14:48 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 07:14:48 -0400 Subject: Setting static DNS In-Reply-To: <49FAD663.6070506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FAD663.6070506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49FAD9A8.40501@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > What is the trick to statically set a list of DNS servers to use > when you otherwise get your IP address from a DHCP server? > > Specifically, I run my own Internet-facing DNS servers and would > like to use them when I am roaming around wireless networks. > Normally, you'd configure the DHCP server to give the DNS server, default route etc. However, it is possible to manually configure the DNS server address. The details depend on the distro or operating system. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 11:52:32 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 20:52:32 +0900 Subject: Setting static DNS In-Reply-To: <49FAD9A8.40501-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49FAD663.6070506@alteeve.com> <49FAD9A8.40501@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49FAE280.3010706@alteeve.com> James Knott wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> What is the trick to statically set a list of DNS servers to use >> when you otherwise get your IP address from a DHCP server? >> >> Specifically, I run my own Internet-facing DNS servers and would >> like to use them when I am roaming around wireless networks. >> > > Normally, you'd configure the DHCP server to give the DNS server, > default route etc. However, it is possible to manually configure the > DNS server address. The details depend on the distro or operating system. For most networks, I've no control over. Things like hotspots, networks in hotels and airports and so on. I remember there was a way in older versions of Ubuntu to set the DNS separately from the rest of the network values, but it seems to have been removed or moved in recent versions. Maybe I have to write a small script to watch DBus and edit resolv.conf when it changes myself... Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 12:34:44 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 08:34:44 -0400 Subject: Setting static DNS In-Reply-To: <49FAE280.3010706-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FAD663.6070506@alteeve.com> <49FAD9A8.40501@rogers.com> <49FAE280.3010706@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49FAEC64.2060606@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Madison Kelly wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> What is the trick to statically set a list of DNS servers to use >>> when you otherwise get your IP address from a DHCP server? >>> >>> Specifically, I run my own Internet-facing DNS servers and would >>> like to use them when I am roaming around wireless networks. >>> >> >> Normally, you'd configure the DHCP server to give the DNS server, >> default route etc. However, it is possible to manually configure the >> DNS server address. The details depend on the distro or operating >> system. > > For most networks, I've no control over. Things like hotspots, > networks in hotels and airports and so on. I remember there was a way > in older versions of Ubuntu to set the DNS separately from the rest of > the network values, but it seems to have been removed or moved in > recent versions. > > Maybe I have to write a small script to watch DBus and edit > resolv.conf when it changes myself... > Just out of curiousity, what will using your own DNS accomplish, when you're not on your network? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 12:57:36 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Setting static DNS In-Reply-To: <49FAD663.6070506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FAD663.6070506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 May 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > What is the trick to statically set a list of DNS servers to > use when you otherwise get your IP address from a DHCP server? Beside manually modify /etc/resolv.conf every time after obtaining IP, I guess? I believe most DHCP clients have option to run an external scripts after getting the IP, the scripts can add your DNS addresses to /etc/resolv.conf preceding or replacing the ones received from DHCP server. -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 13:11:31 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 09:11:31 -0400 Subject: Setting static DNS In-Reply-To: References: <49FAD663.6070506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49FAF503.3030506@utoronto.ca> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Fri, 1 May 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: >> What is the trick to statically set a list of DNS servers to use when >> you otherwise get your IP address from a DHCP server? > > Beside manually modify /etc/resolv.conf every time after obtaining IP, I > guess? > > I believe most DHCP clients have option to run an external scripts after > getting the IP, the scripts can add your DNS addresses to > /etc/resolv.conf preceding or replacing the ones received from DHCP server. Why not just edit /etc/resolv.conf with the dns server(s) you want, and remove resolvconf from your default runlevel(s)? That or chattr +i the file and hope it doesn't break your dhcp scripts :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 13:11:44 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 09:11:44 -0400 Subject: Setting static DNS In-Reply-To: References: <49FAD663.6070506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090501131144.GA20664@watson-wilson.ca> The resolvconf package in Debian might do this. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 13:26:01 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 09:26:01 -0400 Subject: Setting static DNS In-Reply-To: <49FAE280.3010706-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FAD663.6070506@alteeve.com> <49FAD9A8.40501@rogers.com> <49FAE280.3010706@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090501132601.GM21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 01, 2009 at 08:52:32PM +0900, Madison Kelly wrote: > For most networks, I've no control over. Things like hotspots, networks > in hotels and airports and so on. I remember there was a way in older > versions of Ubuntu to set the DNS separately from the rest of the > network values, but it seems to have been removed or moved in recent > versions. > > Maybe I have to write a small script to watch DBus and edit resolv.conf > when it changes myself... dhcp client should have a config file where you can tell it to NOT update the resolv.conf, and if you tell it that, then you should be abel to manage it manually instead. Or you could play with the resolvconf tool which seems to be configurable to do various things. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 13:29:18 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 22:29:18 +0900 Subject: Setting static DNS In-Reply-To: <49FAEC64.2060606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49FAD663.6070506@alteeve.com> <49FAD9A8.40501@rogers.com> <49FAE280.3010706@alteeve.com> <49FAEC64.2060606@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49FAF92E.8020400@alteeve.com> James Knott wrote: > Just out of curiousity, what will using your own DNS accomplish, when > you're not on your network? Mainly buggy/laggy DNS resolvers. Dealing with that at this hotel now. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 13:31:02 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 09:31:02 -0400 Subject: Setting static DNS In-Reply-To: References: <49FAD663.6070506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49FAF996.9000708@rogers.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Fri, 1 May 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: >> What is the trick to statically set a list of DNS servers to use >> when you otherwise get your IP address from a DHCP server? > > Beside manually modify /etc/resolv.conf every time after obtaining IP, > I guess? > > I believe most DHCP clients have option to run an external scripts > after getting the IP, the scripts can add your DNS addresses to > /etc/resolv.conf preceding or replacing the ones received from DHCP > server. > In OpenSUSE and Windows, it is possible to manually set the DNS address. There should be no need for scripts. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 14:20:23 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Setting static DNS In-Reply-To: <20090501132601.GM21464-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49FAD663.6070506@alteeve.com> <49FAD9A8.40501@rogers.com> <49FAE280.3010706@alteeve.com> <20090501132601.GM21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 May 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > dhcp client should have a config file where you can tell it to > NOT update the resolv.conf, and if you tell it that, then you > should be abel to manage it manually instead. Either configuration or command line options, e.g. for dhcpcd it is a command line option. However, in many case the script that start the client (init.d scrips?) often has configuration file allowing one to put necessary options without changing the script. BTW, for dhcpcd the script is named "dhcpcd.exe" under its configuration directory; read man dhcpcd. BTW in my case when I need override the DNS I choose using script since I don't want to throw away the DNS from DHCP, just to make it lower priority. > Or you could play with the resolvconf tool which seems to be > configurable to do various things. Ah, yes, apparently debian thing (good idea, but doesn't seem to be adopted by Fedora as yet). In that case "/etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/head" should do the trick. :-) -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 14:26:16 2009 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 10:26:16 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. Message-ID: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> One of the sites on my server has been infected with some malicious Java Script. I can locate all the files with: grep "Bad JS" `find . -name "*.html"` Is there a way to modify this to replace the "Bad JS" with ""? Or a find variant? Thanks in advance, Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 14:29:27 2009 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:29:27 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: <49FB0688.5010006-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > One of the sites on my server has been infected with some malicious Java > Script. > > I can locate all the files with: > > grep "Bad JS" `find . -name "*.html"` > > Is there a way to modify this to replace the "Bad JS" with ""? > > Or a find variant? The classic tool for doing this is sed .. but you could also use perl -ie 's/Bad JS//' *.html -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 14:33:39 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 May 2009, Alex Beamish wrote: > On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > > One of the sites on my server has been infected with some malicious Java > > Script. > > > > I can locate all the files with: > > > > grep "Bad JS" `find . -name "*.html"` > > > > Is there a way to modify this to replace the "Bad JS" with ""? > > > > Or a find variant? > > The classic tool for doing this is sed .. but you could also use perl > -ie 's/Bad JS//' *.html or, recursively, $ perl -pi -e 's/fred/barney/' $(find . -name "*.html") or some variation thereof. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 14:36:14 2009 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 10:36:14 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49FB08DE.8020509@alteeve.com> Alex Beamish wrote: > The classic tool for doing this is sed .. but you could also use perl > -ie 's/Bad JS//' *.html > So.... sed 's/Bad JS//' *html Would that search recursively? Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 14:37:43 2009 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 10:37:43 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49FB0937.7080802@alteeve.com> Robert P. J. Day wrote: > or, recursively, > > $ perl -pi -e 's/fred/barney/' $(find . -name "*.html") > > or some variation thereof. > > rday Looks Good to me! I'll try it. :) Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 14:41:15 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 10:41:15 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: <49FB0688.5010006-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090501144115.GA14132@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, May 01, 2009 at 10:26:16AM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: > One of the sites on my server has been infected with some malicious Java > Script. > > I can locate all the files with: > > grep "Bad JS" `find . -name "*.html"` > > Is there a way to modify this to replace the "Bad JS" with ""? > > Or a find variant? There are lots of ways, and I suspect you'll get a raft of good suggestions. I have never been good at using the shell, so I do things like this with a programming language - mostly Python these days, but in this case I have an old Perl script to do this. Here it is: #!/usr/bin/perl -p -i # This is a teeny tiny little script that takes filenames or wildcards # as its argument, opens that/those files, and performs the regex on # them. It is too customized to have a guide, but as I change things # I'll preserve the previous incarnation to give me a more comprehensive # set of examples. # This regex looks for image tags and excises them completely - it will # barf on an escaped greater-than in a comment or filename, because it # uses a look-behind to complete the expression on the greater-than # symbol. # ###################################################################### # # # Remove image tags from html # # # ###################################################################### #s/]*>//gs; ###################################################################### # # # Convert ampersands to their HTML character entity. # # # ###################################################################### #s/&/&\;/gs; ###################################################################### # # # Turn strings starting with www into hyperlinks. # # # ###################################################################### #s/(www\.[\S]+)\b/$1<\/a>/gs; ###################################################################### # # # Changing the keyword expansion tags to match use of subversion # # # ###################################################################### s/# Current Revision: \$revision\$/# \$Id\$/gs; # This is the end of the file, be careful with it, as it can potentially # mess up a lot of files. It does not recurse though, which limits its # potential damage. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 15:03:08 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Setting static DNS In-Reply-To: <49FAF92E.8020400-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FAD663.6070506@alteeve.com> <49FAD9A8.40501@rogers.com> <49FAE280.3010706@alteeve.com> <49FAEC64.2060606@rogers.com> <49FAF92E.8020400@alteeve.com> Message-ID: | From: Madison Kelly | James Knott wrote: | > Just out of curiousity, what will using your own DNS accomplish, when | > you're not on your network? | | Mainly buggy/laggy DNS resolvers. Dealing with that at this hotel now. [I'm not trying to answer your question.] I wonder if you might be better off running a caching name server on your laptop, one that does not make recursive DNS queries. In other words, it walks the DNS tree itself rather than using other servers to do the work. Why caching? So that the same queries get answered efficiently. Very important if your system is walking the tree itsel -- think of how many times it would be asking about .com! Why not make recursive queries? Because the servers that you seem to want to avoid are the ones that handle recursive queries. Besides, many of the pathologies of DNS involve recursive queries. Why not use your home-base DNS (i.e. handing it recursive queries)? Here's an argument. A bit tricky. It uses something like mathematical induction. Case A: your home-base DNS does not make recursive queries. Your home-base DNS will make exactly the same queries as the setup I propose, and add the transit time between your laptop and your home base. Plus this configuration is fragile in some ways (another single point of failure, for example). Case B: your home-base DNS makes recursive queries. Then you could set up your laptop to make its own recursive queries to the same server (I'm ignoring the fact that that server might refuse queries from some foreign client). This would reduce several trips. And this reduces to Case A, effectively. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 15:08:46 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:08:46 -0700 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: <49FB0688.5010006-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0905010808v70aeca4ewb738b52a95493267@mail.gmail.com> The "rpl" command can do mass-replacements of files in a directory or subdirectories. I've used it to update thousands of files in one go without any issues. - TJA On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 7:26 AM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > One of the sites on my server has been infected with some malicious Java > Script. > > I can locate all the files with: > > grep "Bad JS" `find . -name "*.html"` > > Is there a way to modify this to replace the "Bad JS" with ""? > > Or a find variant? > > > Thanks in advance, > > Lance F. Squire > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 15:12:32 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 11:12:32 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: <49FB08DE.8020509-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> <49FB08DE.8020509@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49FB1160.7080604@utoronto.ca> Lance F. Squire wrote: > Alex Beamish wrote: >> The classic tool for doing this is sed .. but you could also use perl >> -ie 's/Bad JS//' *.html >> > > So.... > > sed 's/Bad JS//' *html > > Would that search recursively? I prefer using a shell, so I'd use something like this: for i in `grep "Bad JS" *.html -R -l`; do echo "Bad JS found in $i"; sed -i 's/Bad JS//' $i; done To others on the list, what's the better way using grep/find? Seems like using grep recursively in this case accomplishes the same thing as grepping through find results. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 15:22:14 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: <49FB08DE.8020509-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> <49FB08DE.8020509@alteeve.com> Message-ID: | From: Lance F. Squire | sed 's/Bad JS//' *html | | Would that search recursively? Classically, sed's output goes to stdout. Some time between when I learned sed (1970's) and now, someone added the -i flag to allow in-place editing, and you would need that. Your question about recursive searching shows that you haven't got a good internal model about how the shell ecosystem works. If you want recursion, you generally have to use find(1). The latest BASH (which you probably don't have) adds ** for this purpose. Here's a guess. Untested. Any bug might be very destructive. find /root/of/tree/with/html -name '*.html' -print0 \ | xargs --no-run-if-empty --null sed -i -e 's/BadJS//g' Notes: - This will rewrite files even if there is no change. You may not want that. - the -print0 and --null prevent odd filenames confusing the script. For example, filenames with spaces in them. - the "g" at the end means that more than one substitution per line is attempted. - are you sure that this is all the damage that needs fixing? Proving that would seem tough and a mistake might be bad. - in-place changes are a bit like burning bridges after you cross them. If you make a mistake, you cannot go back. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 16:00:58 2009 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 12:00:58 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> <49FB08DE.8020509@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49FB1CBA.1060306@alteeve.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > - in-place changes are a bit like burning bridges after you cross > them. If you make a mistake, you cannot go back. Unless you backed-up everything first! :) Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 16:25:24 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 12:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. Message-ID: On Fri, 1 May 2009, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Lance F. Squire wrote: > > Alex Beamish wrote: > > > The classic tool for doing this is sed .. but you could also use perl > > > -ie 's/Bad JS//' *.html > > > > > > > So.... > > > > sed 's/Bad JS//' *html > > > > Would that search recursively? > > I prefer using a shell, so I'd use something like this: > > for i in `grep "Bad JS" *.html -R -l`; do echo "Bad JS found in $i"; sed -i > 's/Bad JS//' $i; done > > To others on the list, what's the better way using grep/find? Seems like using > grep recursively in this case accomplishes the same thing as grepping through > find results. find . -name '*.html' -print0 | xargs -0 sed -i.bak 's/Bad JS//' -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 16:27:57 2009 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 12:27:57 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> <49FB08DE.8020509@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49FB230D.1080508@alteeve.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > Your question about recursive searching shows that you haven't got a > good internal model about how the shell ecosystem works. > Is it showing!... ;) I have only used shell to do basic file moves/renames and launching other programs. > If you want recursion, you generally have to use find(1). The latest > BASH (which you probably don't have) adds ** for this purpose. > Thought so, but doesn't hurt to ask. (much... :) ) > Here's a guess. Untested. Any bug might be very destructive. > > find /root/of/tree/with/html -name '*.html' -print0 \ > | xargs --no-run-if-empty --null sed -i -e 's/BadJS//g' > So far the make-up of the JS has foiled my attempts at 's/JS//'. I tried manually \ escaping the JS in a perl script, to no avail. As this script is between the and tags, can we say 'everything between'? > Notes: > > > - are you sure that this is all the damage that needs fixing? > Proving that would seem tough and a mistake might be bad. All the files are (supposed to be) raw html. No scripts etc. Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 16:52:01 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 12:52:01 -0400 Subject: MMCONFIG - What does this initials stand for? Message-ID: Hello, For a long time, I have always seen this error when Linux is booting but never got around figuring what the heck it all meant. So today, I spent and hour or so just trying to figure out what the heck this so common error meant. I can say I have a good idea now on what MMCONFIG has to do with - PCI configuration space access. Wonder though any body know the politics behind this problem. From Linux post at the bottom of this email, it looks like there is a lot I am still missing. Understandably as I do not follow hardware trends closely. PCI: BIOS Bug: MCFG area is not E820-reserved PCI: Not using MMCONFIG. http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/12/23/6 http://developer.amd.com/Assets/pci%20-%20pci%20express%20configuration%20space%20access.pdf Regards, William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 17:00:35 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:00:35 -0400 Subject: MMCONFIG - What does this initials stand for? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Pardon me for responding to my own post. Let me add this question, does MMCONFIG affect windows? I have never seen it there? Hello, > > For a long time, I have always seen this error when Linux is booting but > never got around figuring what the heck it all meant. So today, I spent and > hour or so just trying to figure out what the heck this so common error > meant. > > I can say I have a good idea now on what MMCONFIG has to do with - PCI > configuration space access. Wonder though any body know the politics behind > this problem. From Linux post at the bottom of this email, it looks like > there is a lot I am still missing. Understandably as I do not follow > hardware trends closely. > > PCI: BIOS Bug: MCFG area is not E820-reserved > PCI: Not using MMCONFIG. > > > > http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/12/23/6 > > > http://developer.amd.com/Assets/pci%20-%20pci%20express%20configuration%20space%20access.pdf > > Regards, > > William > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 17:21:34 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 13:21:34 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: <49FB230D.1080508-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> <49FB08DE.8020509@alteeve.com> <49FB230D.1080508@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49FB2F9E.40803@utoronto.ca> Lance F. Squire wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> >> Your question about recursive searching shows that you haven't got a >> good internal model about how the shell ecosystem works. >> > > Is it showing!... ;) > > I have only used shell to do basic file moves/renames and launching > other programs. > >> If you want recursion, you generally have to use find(1). The latest >> BASH (which you probably don't have) adds ** for this purpose. >> > > Thought so, but doesn't hurt to ask. (much... :) ) > >> Here's a guess. Untested. Any bug might be very destructive. >> >> find /root/of/tree/with/html -name '*.html' -print0 \ >> | xargs --no-run-if-empty --null sed -i -e 's/BadJS//g' >> > > So far the make-up of the JS has foiled my attempts at 's/JS//'. > > I tried manually \ escaping the JS in a perl script, to no avail. > > As this script is between the and tags, can we say > 'everything between'? > >> Notes: >> >> >> - are you sure that this is all the damage that needs fixing? >> Proving that would seem tough and a mistake might be bad. > > All the files are (supposed to be) raw html. No scripts etc. Lots of different ways to solve this problem it sounds like. Why don't you post a sample segment of infected code e.g. between your tags on somewhere like pastebin.ca (or in an email if people agree). I propose that with said code, anyone on the list who is interested write a program/script/command etc. to solve said problem and submit them somewhere -- we could try doing everything through the wiki, starting with the sample code. Then after a few submissions we have a vote in which solution is the best for x,y,z reasons etc. Submissions could be anonymous or attributed. Any takers? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 17:45:48 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:45:48 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: <49FB0688.5010006-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090501174548.GN21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 01, 2009 at 10:26:16AM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: > One of the sites on my server has been infected with some malicious Java > Script. > > I can locate all the files with: > > grep "Bad JS" `find . -name "*.html"` > > Is there a way to modify this to replace the "Bad JS" with ""? > > Or a find variant? How about: find . -name "*.html" | xargs perl -pi -e 's/BAD JS//' I didn't test it, but it looks OK to me. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 17:46:42 2009 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 13:46:42 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: <49FB2F9E.40803-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> <49FB08DE.8020509@alteeve.com> <49FB230D.1080508@alteeve.com> <49FB2F9E.40803@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <49FB3582.5030600@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Lots of different ways to solve this problem it sounds like. Why don't > you post a sample segment of infected code e.g. between your > tags on somewhere like pastebin.ca (or in an email if > people agree). > > I propose that with said code, anyone on the list who is interested > write a program/script/command etc. to solve said problem and submit > them somewhere -- we could try doing everything through the wiki, > starting with the sample code. > > Then after a few submissions we have a vote in which solution is the > best for x,y,z reasons etc. Submissions could be anonymous or attributed. > > Any takers? > > Jamon Sounds like an Idea. The offending JS is identified as: trojan horse "JS:Redirector-H [Trj]" It has infected 154 files on one site. I'm guessing the guy who edits the sites computer was/is infected.(I'm sure he is looking at that now.) The script is actually between the and the tags. Actually outside of either. If someone has already experienced this, others I'm sure would like to know. Google only turned up how to un-infect your Windows client. I could find nothing of easy removal from multiple web pages... (Maybe I'm not searching right...) I'll pastbin the code: http://pastebin.ca/1409588 Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 17:59:53 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:59:53 -0400 Subject: MMCONFIG - What does this initials stand for? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090501175953.GO21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 01, 2009 at 12:52:01PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Hello, > > For a long time, I have always seen this error when Linux is booting but > never got around figuring what the heck it all meant. So today, I spent and > hour or so just trying to figure out what the heck this so common error > meant. > > I can say I have a good idea now on what MMCONFIG has to do with - PCI > configuration space access. Wonder though any body know the politics behind > this problem. From Linux post at the bottom of this email, it looks like > there is a lot I am still missing. Understandably as I do not follow > hardware trends closely. > > PCI: BIOS Bug: MCFG area is not E820-reserved > PCI: Not using MMCONFIG. > > > > http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/12/23/6 > > http://developer.amd.com/Assets/pci%20-%20pci%20express%20configuration%20space%20access.pdf At least one of my machines say that, and no I never did look into it. Seems like a rather common bug. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 18:08:03 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MP3 player support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | Here's what I think I know. It seemed hard to discover. I got it screwed up. Amarok: 2.x does not support playlists on MTP players. Amarok 1.4 did, but that isn't the version that current Fedora or Ubuntu support. They expect this to be remedied by a Google Summer of Code project. Rhythmbox: doesn't support playlists on MTP players. It will when someone adds support. http://live.gnome.org/RhythmboxRemovableMedia -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 19:25:19 2009 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 15:25:19 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: <49FB3582.5030600-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> <49FB08DE.8020509@alteeve.com> <49FB230D.1080508@alteeve.com> <49FB2F9E.40803@utoronto.ca> <49FB3582.5030600@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49FB4C9F.5020707@alteeve.com> Well, Not finding a quick solution that worked in this case, I have waded through the 154 files and cleaned them manually. I do appreciate all the help! Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 20:28:11 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 16:28:11 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: <49FB4C9F.5020707-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> <49FB08DE.8020509@alteeve.com> <49FB230D.1080508@alteeve.com> <49FB2F9E.40803@utoronto.ca> <49FB3582.5030600@alteeve.com> <49FB4C9F.5020707@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090501202811.GA17788@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, May 01, 2009 at 03:25:19PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: > Not finding a quick solution that worked in this case, Sorry, work interferes :-) > I have waded through the 154 files and cleaned them manually. Drat, I'm late. For posterity, here is my quick and dirty solution, that does work on my test data from your pastebin: #!/usr/bin/python """ Strip the bad trojan horse junk out of an HTML file. """ import re, os, fnmatch def stripick(string): """""" firstbit = r"\s*" badbit = "\(function\(t.*?;" wholething = firstbit + badbit + lastbit pattern = re.compile(wholething) newstring = re.sub(pattern, r"", string) return newstring # Set the root of your recursive search here top = "/home/willyyam/misc/python/cleanfiles" for root, dirs, files in os.walk(top): for file in files: print(os.path.join(root, file)) if fnmatch.fnmatch(os.path.join(root, file), "*.html"): fileobj = open(os.path.join(root, file), "r") filestring = fileobj.read() # Get the file contents in memory fileobj.close() # Close the file newfilestring = stripick(filestring) # Clean the string # Open the file for writing, clobbering it fileobj = open(os.path.join(root, file), "w") fileobj.write(newfilestring) # Write the new string into the file fileobj.close() # Close the file -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 20:42:07 2009 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 16:42:07 -0400 Subject: How to mass Search & Replace in text files. In-Reply-To: <20090501202811.GA17788-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <49FB0688.5010006@alteeve.com> <49FB08DE.8020509@alteeve.com> <49FB230D.1080508@alteeve.com> <49FB2F9E.40803@utoronto.ca> <49FB3582.5030600@alteeve.com> <49FB4C9F.5020707@alteeve.com> <20090501202811.GA17788@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <49FB5E9F.1040200@alteeve.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Fri, May 01, 2009 at 03:25:19PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: >> Not finding a quick solution that worked in this case, > > Sorry, work interferes :-) > >> I have waded through the 154 files and cleaned them manually. > > Drat, I'm late. For posterity, here is my quick and dirty solution, > that does work on my test data from your pastebin: > > Much thanks! I'll keep that in case it happens again. :) And I sure anyone else who it happens to will appreciate the work. Just wish I had work to interfere. :P Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 1 22:35:38 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 15:35:38 -0700 Subject: MP3 player support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a97ef0905011535x19b6fc8et8683cc714721087d@mail.gmail.com> I've been seeing this a lot lately, and I have to ask: What's with later-version apps having the features ripped out (and then reimplemented) that used to be supported? A lot of the newer KDE4 stuff seems that way. Was this because the apps were completely rewritten, because of some bug in the way the feature was implemented, or an incompatability of some sort. It seems quite odd to me that things would be removed in a later release and then re-added in this manner. Anyone know the reasoning? - TJA On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:08 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier > > | Here's what I think I know. ?It seemed hard to discover. > > I got it screwed up. > > Amarok: > > 2.x does not support playlists on MTP players. ?Amarok 1.4 did, but > that isn't the version that current Fedora or Ubuntu support. ?They > expect this to be remedied by a Google Summer of Code project. > > Rhythmbox: > > doesn't support playlists on MTP players. ?It will when someone adds > support. ?http://live.gnome.org/RhythmboxRemovableMedia > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 2 12:22:22 2009 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 08:22:22 -0400 Subject: Lone Coder: The Cost Risks of Programming Standards Message-ID: <1241266942.12865.3.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> My latest essay. Ken B. "...Risk assessment defines risk and cost times probability. If a fire will cause $1000 in damage and will occur every 500 days, then the risk represented by the fire is $2 per day. A person should budget no more than $530 a year to prevent such a fire because any more would mean spending more money than it would cost to clean up after the fire. Of course, this kind of assessment requires an accurate assessment of the risk and the cost..." http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_april_2009.html -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 3 20:43:00 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 16:43:00 -0400 Subject: MP3 player support In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0904301232m237a25bcob849df5982f6d037-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0904301232m237a25bcob849df5982f6d037@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880905031343j30ee1ff5j21b29e6ef7797aa4@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Just like to let you know my experience with MP3 Players. The sansa e280,e260 is good for small players so you can place it in your pocket. Rockbox worked amazing on it (i had the v1) You could customize it to however you like. It was actually better than the Original firmware on there. IPOD 80G Classic, works in amarok 1.4 and gtkpod. Its great for large collections of music, and watching videos. A good application for video conversion for it is HandBrake. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 4 13:13:30 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 09:13:30 -0400 Subject: Update on ODF Spreadsheet Interoperability Message-ID: <7c50d3570905040613w28baa2emfd6fd30bdc87cc7c@mail.gmail.com> http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/05/update-on-odf-spreadsheet.html -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 4 15:22:16 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 11:22:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MP3 player support In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0905011535x19b6fc8et8683cc714721087d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0905011535x19b6fc8et8683cc714721087d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Tyler Aviss | What's with later-version apps having the features ripped out (and | then reimplemented) that used to be supported? A lot of the newer KDE4 | stuff seems that way. Was this because the apps were completely | rewritten, because of some bug in the way the feature was implemented, | or an incompatability of some sort. And the winner is -- xmms2. xmms was a WinAmp clone. It no longer is maintained or works. xmms2 is some kind of server, with no GUI. audacious seems to be the natural successor to xmms. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 4 17:12:36 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 13:12:36 -0400 Subject: MP3 player support In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0905011535x19b6fc8et8683cc714721087d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2009-05-04, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > And the winner is -- xmms2. > > xmms was a WinAmp clone. It no longer is maintained or works. > > xmms2 is some kind of server, with no GUI. > > audacious seems to be the natural successor to xmms. I have been using xmms2 lately... It doesn't *include* a GUI, but several are available... Debian has the following set of packages: chris at dba2:~/architecture/rp.db-schema/trunk> wajig listnames xmms2 | grep -v plugin gkrellxmms2 gxmms2 wmxmms2 xmms2 xmms2-client-avahi xmms2-client-cli xmms2-client-medialib-updater xmms2-core xmms2-dev xmms2-et xmms2-scrobbler xmms2tray Several of these are GUI front ends, and it's worth note that you can use multiple of them concurrently :-). Avahi is a reimplementation of Apple Bonjour/Zeroconf, for automatic publishing and discovery of services. xmms2 groks a lot of data formats: % wajig listnames xmms2 | grep plugin | cut -d "-" -f 3 | fmt airplay all alsa ao asf asx avcodec avformat cdda cue curl daap faad flac gme gvfs ices icymetaint id3v2 jack karaoke lastfm m3u mad mms modplug mp4 musepack normalize nulstipper nulstripper ofa oss pls pulse rss sid smb speex vocoder vorbis wma xml xspf Note that internally, xmms2 stores the music metadata (e.g. - where to find music files, playlists, all such stuff) in a SQLite database. It's a somewhat bad schema (suffers from the One True Lookup Table problem http://www.dbazine.com/ofinterest/oi-articles/celko22), but is *reasonably* readable. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon May 4 19:18:51 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 15:18:51 -0400 Subject: quagga bgpd dies and and 32 bit ASN updates Message-ID: <49FF3F9B.30103@tmis.ca> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 4 21:08:34 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 17:08:34 -0400 Subject: Lone Coder: The Cost Risks of Programming Standards In-Reply-To: <1241266942.12865.3.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1241266942.12865.3.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: On 2009-05-02, Ken Burtch wrote: > My latest essay. > > Ken B. > > "...Risk assessment defines risk and cost times probability. If a fire > will > cause $1000 in damage and will occur every 500 days, then the risk > represented by the fire is $2 per day. A person should budget no more > than $530 a year to prevent such a fire because any more would mean > spending more money than it would cost to clean up after the fire. Of > course, this kind of assessment requires an accurate assessment of the > risk and the cost..." The trouble is that "accurately" assessing the risks and the costs is rife with both trouble and further cost, because this simplifies things several crucial ways: 1. The expectations aren't based on one event and one probability, but is instead based on many possible events with varying likelihoods. 2. Determining the list of possible events is troublesome. When thinking of "possible disasters," being struck by lightning or by a meteor or by a surprise satellite that falls from orbit are things that could happen to a building. I expect that it's usually worth leaving "struck by an asteroid" off the list, but it is by no means obvious where the "tail end" of the curve lies. 3. Given the set of events, the probabilities and costs may be difficult to estimate, and they may suffer from the ability to change. Crime levels change over time (these days, I'd be un-keen on visiting Mexico City on business, as it sounds like the kidnapping rate has gone up, and we've all heard about the piracy problems near Somalia). Applying this to code: "If Ada became the hot, in-language you would see a lot more bad code in Ada." -- Thaddeus L. Olczyk , comp.lang.C++ 4. Unless the previous sets of work have been done properly, the numbers mayn't be of any help in guiding actions. Some pretty intense public policies have been generated over the last number years falling out of events as diverse as: - 9/11 - Somalian piracy - Swine flu - Shootings at schools and in virtually all cases, knee-jerk reactions have been generating *BAD* policy because these have similar properties to lotteries where, since: a) The probability of an individual event is so low, but b) The consequence of an individual event is so high, and c) Consequences of the events are sufficiently heinous as to be public-news-worthy and this adds up to people not actually being capable of being rational about them. There aren't enough actuaries out there to *properly* assess the various risks that people are worrying about, and they all work for insurance companies anyways, and therefore don't get drawn into these sorts of analysis very much. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Tue May 5 21:27:15 2009 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 17:27:15 -0400 Subject: Firefox on Windows (cough ... ) problem Message-ID: <200905051727.15403.icanprogram@295.ca> My brother uses Firefox on Windows on my insistance that it is the least he could do to improve his web security. However, he went ahead and upgraded to the latest and greatest version of Firefox the other day and now the startup time for the app is long enough to brew a pot of coffee and drink it too. Alas I only run Linux and a Mac here so I'm not much use when it comes to the HowTo do things Windows. How does one downgrade a Firefox installation on Windows? Thanks. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 5 21:41:07 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 14:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Firefox on Windows (cough ... ) problem Message-ID: <106854.26885.qm@web111204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Bob, Here is a link to explains how to downgrade. http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Installing+a+previous+version+of+Firefox You might also try disabling all Firefox plug-ins. To do this, from the menu, goto: tool->options Click on the "main" icon at the top in the dialog box Click on the "manage add-ons" button and disable everything first. You will need to play around with disabling/enabling add-ons. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Tue, 5/5/09, bob 295 wrote: > From: bob 295 > Subject: [TLUG]: Firefox on Windows (cough ... ) problem > To: "TLUG" > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 5:27 PM > My brother uses Firefox on Windows on > my insistance that it is the least he > could do to improve his web security.? > ???However, he went ahead and upgraded > to the latest and greatest version of Firefox the other day > and now the > startup time for the app is long enough to brew a pot of > coffee and drink it > too.? ? Alas I only run Linux and a Mac here so > I'm not much use when it > comes to the HowTo do things Windows. > > How does one downgrade a Firefox installation on Windows? > > Thanks. > > bob > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 5 23:12:10 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 19:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Firefox on Windows (cough ... ) problem In-Reply-To: <200905051727.15403.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200905051727.15403.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: | From: bob 295 | How does one downgrade a Firefox installation on Windows? The most recent upgrades on Linux have been security fixes. I bet that is true for MS Windows too, so consider carefully whether downgrading is a good idea. I understand that there have also been security upgrades to IE recently, one of which has been to switch everyone to IE8. I could be wrong since I don't pay attention to Windows or IE. Consider googling about the FF problem on Windows. Perhaps others have experienced the problem and have a fix. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 5 23:20:28 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 16:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Firefox on Windows (cough ... ) problem Message-ID: <934691.31045.qm@web111216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Will add to that, I am using the latest FF on 2 PCs at home plus one at work on Windows. I haven't noticed any issue with load time or performance. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Tue, 5/5/09, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > From: D. Hugh Redelmeier > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Firefox on Windows (cough ... ) problem > To: "TLUG" > Received: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 7:12 PM > | From: bob 295 > > | How does one downgrade a Firefox installation on > Windows? > > The most recent upgrades on Linux have been security > fixes.? I bet > that is true for MS Windows too, so consider carefully > whether > downgrading is a good idea. > > I understand that there have also been security upgrades to > IE > recently, one of which has been to switch everyone to > IE8.? I could be > wrong since I don't pay attention to Windows or IE. > > Consider googling about the FF problem on Windows.? > Perhaps others > have experienced the problem and have a fix. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 00:54:20 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 20:54:20 -0400 Subject: Firefox on Windows (cough ... ) problem In-Reply-To: References: <200905051727.15403.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <4A00DFBC.6070102@telly.org> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I understand that there have also been security upgrades to IE recently, one of which has been to switch everyone to IE8. I could be wrong since I don't pay attention to Windows or IE. > In my limited sample size (two Windows systems; one Vista, one XP) my experience is that IE7 users are getting IE upgrades, and I was surprised to see that IE8 is not listed as a necessary or even recommended optional install from Windows Update. I had to manually go to the IE8 site to manually initiate a download. (I have encouraged the update to people I know because IE8 is by default more compliant to web standards and even reportedly breaks some old sites that were done with non-standard FrontPage-isms.) I have has no problems with my FF-Win setups, though I don't use the combination very heavily. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 02:42:53 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 22:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Firefox on Windows (cough ... ) problem In-Reply-To: <4A00DFBC.6070102-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200905051727.15403.icanprogram@295.ca> <4A00DFBC.6070102@telly.org> Message-ID: | From: Evan Leibovitch | D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | | > I understand that there have also been security upgrades to IE recently, one of which has been to switch everyone to IE8. I could be wrong since I don't pay attention to Windows or IE. | > | In my limited sample size (two Windows systems; one Vista, one XP) my | experience is that IE7 users are getting IE upgrades, and I was | surprised to see that IE8 is not listed as a necessary or even | recommended optional install from Windows Update. I had to manually go | to the IE8 site to manually initiate a download. >From usually unreliable sources: IE8 Released As Critical Update For XP: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/28/2322248 IE8 Update Forces IE As Default Browser http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/01/002237 Prepare for Automatic Update distribution of IE8 http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/04/10/prepare-for-automatic-update-distribution-of-ie8.aspx Internet Explorer 8 Delivery through Automatic Updates http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/updatemanagement/dd365125.aspx Not that I've read all these. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 02:54:51 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 02:54:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: sun^H^H^Horacle impact on open source products ? Message-ID: I wonder why no-one has reacted to the Sun->Oracle takeover, knowing that at least 3 open source products have thus passed into new hands. OpenOffice, VirtualBox and Java (and OpenSolaris) are now controlled by Oracle. Oracle bought sleepycat, makers of the dbm library used by mySQL, a competing product of Oracle's database products. So far, so good. What about tomorrow ? Is this the new patent clutching gorilla ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 03:38:10 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 03:38:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: off topic, yet on Message-ID: Trying to download Windows 7 rc using Firefox on Linux -- no joy. Insists on a 'download manager' in java or such. No suh thing here. Sorry. Solutions ? tia, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 03:48:47 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 23:48:47 -0400 Subject: sun^H^H^Horacle impact on open source products ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A01089F.7070809@telly.org> Peter wrote: > I wonder why no-one has reacted to the Sun->Oracle takeover, knowing that at > least 3 open source products have thus passed into new hands. OpenOffice, > VirtualBox and Java (and OpenSolaris) are now controlled by Oracle. Oracle > bought sleepycat, makers of the dbm library used by mySQL, a competing product > of Oracle's database products. So far, so good. What about tomorrow ? Is this > the new patent clutching gorilla ? > Um... you may have missed it, but Sun bought more than the MySQL dbm library. They bought MySQL. http://www.sun.com/software/products/mysql/ So now Oracle owns mySQL. This could indeed be interesting. As for reaction... I'm sure there are scores of pundits who are blogging and tweeting and churning out every possible scenario. I guess the folks in TLUG will just sit back and watch. It's not as if we have much say in the matter. :-) The nice thing about open source is that they at least can't retroactively destroy what already exists... - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 04:29:19 2009 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 00:29:19 -0400 Subject: off topic, yet on In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200905060029.19362.amarjan@pobox.com> On May 5, 2009 11:38:10 pm Peter wrote: > Trying to download Windows 7 rc using Firefox on Linux -- no joy. Insists > on a 'download manager' in java or such. No suh thing here. Sorry. > Solutions ? Use Windows. The download requires an MS or Akamai or somesuch ActiveX download manager. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 04:34:51 2009 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 00:34:51 -0400 Subject: Firefox on Windows (cough ... ) problem In-Reply-To: <200905051727.15403.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200905051727.15403.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <200905060034.51981.amarjan@pobox.com> On May 5, 2009 05:27:15 pm bob 295 wrote: > My brother uses Firefox on Windows on my insistance that it is the least he > could do to improve his web security. However, he went ahead and > upgraded to the latest and greatest version of Firefox the other day and > now the startup time for the app is long enough to brew a pot of coffee and > drink it too. Alas I only run Linux and a Mac here so I'm not much use > when it comes to the HowTo do things Windows. > > How does one downgrade a Firefox installation on Windows? > > Thanks. > > bob First try running it with a new (empty) profile. Firefox performance problems are often (usually?) caused by corruptions or misconfigurations in a profile. You can create a new profile (and switch between them) with the Firefox profile manager -- "firefox -profilemanager". There may be an icon for it on Windows. If the performance problem goes away, you have two choices: 1. Figure out what's busted in the old profile and fix it 2. Migrate needed settings to the new profile and delete the old one Another possibility is various plugins. For instance, recent versions of the JRE install a Firefox "quick start" plugin or addon, one or the other (I guess it's a preloader) which would affect Firefox startup time. If it's not a profile problem, can you get a list of all addons and plugins? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 07:01:11 2009 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 03:01:11 -0400 Subject: Workshop on streaming and audio/video production using Linux Message-ID: <1241593271.27880.114.camel@jimslaptop> Hi , I thought there may be some people on the list interested in a workshop taking place at this years Subtle Technologies Festival in Toronto . This years festival theme is "networks" http://www.subtletechnologies.com The 2 day workshop, June 10th and 11th is taught by Julien Ottavi and will include an introduction to the Linux distribution APODIO (a live DVD distro) http://www.apo33.org/apodio/doku.php that he created. Below is some information on the workshop program. More info can be found here: http://www.subtletechnologies.com/2009/?page_id=204 . For those of you who aren't familiar with Pure Data, it's an awesome graphical programming language http://puredata.info/ . It is great for audio and video applications but can also be used for general I/O control. If you have any questions feel free to contact me. Jim Workshop Program ? Introduction to Gnu/Linux and APODIO distribution ? A/V tools for recording, mixing, effects, real-time? ? Introduction streaming technology (icecast server, A/V clients) ? Pure Data fundamentals ( build an audio patch for network collaboration, automation system and control device such as wii, joystick, mouse and keyboard) ? Basics of remote control protocol (vnc, netsend/netreceive, OSC?) ? Online collaborative performance (end of the workshop) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 11:25:28 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 07:25:28 -0400 Subject: off topic, yet on In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A0173A8.2060908@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > Trying to download Windows 7 rc using Firefox on Linux -- no joy. Insists on a > 'download manager' in java or such. No suh thing here. Sorry. Solutions ? > > You have to use IE and that means Windows to download. I can burn you a copy if you can get the York U area to pick up. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 14:22:09 2009 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Lone Coder: The Cost Risks of Programming Standards In-Reply-To: References: <1241266942.12865.3.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: Fair enough. Can we agree that some efforts to deploy programming standards lack an understanding of the purpose for which the standards are being deployed, turning them into an ego or power exercise? Although risks cannot be perfectly assessed, surely some common sense questions like "is what we're enforcing really addressing the issues" are valuable. Ken B. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 4 May 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 2009-05-02, Ken Burtch wrote: >> My latest essay. >> >> Ken B. >> >> "...Risk assessment defines risk and cost times probability. If a fire >> will >> cause $1000 in damage and will occur every 500 days, then the risk >> represented by the fire is $2 per day. A person should budget no more >> than $530 a year to prevent such a fire because any more would mean >> spending more money than it would cost to clean up after the fire. Of >> course, this kind of assessment requires an accurate assessment of the >> risk and the cost..." > > The trouble is that "accurately" assessing the risks and the costs is rife with > both trouble and further cost, because this simplifies things several > crucial ways: > > 1. The expectations aren't based on one event and one probability, but is > instead based on many possible events with varying likelihoods. > > 2. Determining the list of possible events is troublesome. When thinking > of "possible disasters," being struck by lightning or by a meteor or by a > surprise satellite that falls from orbit are things that could happen to a > building. > > I expect that it's usually worth leaving "struck by an asteroid" off the list, > but it is by no means obvious where the "tail end" of the curve lies. > > 3. Given the set of events, the probabilities and costs may be difficult to > estimate, and they may suffer from the ability to change. Crime levels > change over time (these days, I'd be un-keen on visiting Mexico City on > business, as it sounds like the kidnapping rate has gone up, and we've > all heard about the piracy problems near Somalia). > > Applying this to code: > > "If Ada became the hot, in-language you would see a lot more bad code > in Ada." > -- Thaddeus L. Olczyk , comp.lang.C++ > > 4. Unless the previous sets of work have been done properly, the numbers > mayn't be of any help in guiding actions. > > Some pretty intense public policies have been generated over the last number > years falling out of events as diverse as: > - 9/11 > - Somalian piracy > - Swine flu > - Shootings at schools > and in virtually all cases, knee-jerk reactions have been generating > *BAD* policy > because these have similar properties to lotteries where, since: > a) The probability of an individual event is so low, but > b) The consequence of an individual event is so high, and > c) Consequences of the events are sufficiently heinous as to be > public-news-worthy > and this adds up to people not actually being capable of being rational > about them. > > There aren't enough actuaries out there to *properly* assess the various > risks that people are worrying about, and they all work for insurance > companies anyways, and therefore don't get drawn into these sorts of > analysis very much. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 14:37:11 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:37:11 -0400 Subject: sun^H^H^Horacle impact on open source products ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090506143711.GP21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 02:54:51AM +0000, Peter wrote: > I wonder why no-one has reacted to the Sun->Oracle takeover, knowing that at > least 3 open source products have thus passed into new hands. OpenOffice, > VirtualBox and Java (and OpenSolaris) are now controlled by Oracle. Oracle > bought sleepycat, makers of the dbm library used by mySQL, a competing product > of Oracle's database products. So far, so good. What about tomorrow ? Is this > the new patent clutching gorilla ? I thought sun also included mysql. Honestly I think most people don't care what oracle did since for the most part what sun is doing doesn't really matter much anymore. If people care about mysql (I never have understood why they would personally given how much better postgresql is), then they will fork or do something if it becomes necesary. As for java, well I keep hoping that awful fad will die out soon, but it doesn't seem like it will. Maybe microsoft could stop on it a bit harder or something. Openoffice is a mess, which seems to be the state of most things that started as proprietary software and then got oipensources when the owners gave up on it. This is also tru of mozilla/firefox. Awful mess. So quite honstly, who cares what oracle or sun is doing. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 14:39:13 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:39:13 -0400 Subject: off topic, yet on In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090506143913.GQ21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 03:38:10AM +0000, Peter wrote: > Trying to download Windows 7 rc using Firefox on Linux -- no joy. Insists on a > 'download manager' in java or such. No suh thing here. Sorry. Solutions ? firefox seems to fail to deal with microsoft's page. Konqueror worked perfectly fine for it though. I didn't get to opera since konqueror did the job. It did not involve any download manager, it simply provided a url to the iso (well at least it did when I checked the source of the page with the download button). Firfox refused to even get as far as that page though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 14:40:31 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:40:31 -0400 Subject: off topic, yet on In-Reply-To: <200905060029.19362.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200905060029.19362.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20090506144031.GR21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 12:29:19AM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > Use Windows. The download requires an MS or Akamai or somesuch ActiveX > download manager. No, just look at the page source when it is on the page with the download now button, and then use wget on the url for the iso. Doesn't anyone read html source anymore to work around stupid web designs? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 14:57:40 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 10:57:40 -0400 Subject: off topic, yet on In-Reply-To: <20090506143913.GQ21464-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090506143913.GQ21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A01A564.9070400@teksavvy.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 03:38:10AM +0000, Peter wrote: > >> Trying to download Windows 7 rc using Firefox on Linux -- no joy. Insists on a >> 'download manager' in java or such. No suh thing here. Sorry. Solutions ? >> > > firefox seems to fail to deal with microsoft's page. Konqueror worked > perfectly fine for it though. I didn't get to opera since konqueror did the job. > > It did not involve any download manager, it simply provided a url to > the iso (well at least it did when I checked the source of the page with > the download button). Firfox refused to even get as far as that page > though. > I downloaded Windows 7 RC with iceweasel on lenny without problems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 15:02:48 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 15:02:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: off topic, yet on References: <4A0173A8.2060908@rogers.com> Message-ID: Thanks all, I get the idea. I will d/l using windows. The i.d. section includes the question 'what is your primary platform: windows/windows/windows/other'. I was honest about that and chose other, apparently that's where the cross-platform friendliness stops. I wonder how they intend to let users of other platforms beta test their newest product ? (o, wait, they only like paying beta testers, don't need the freebie ones ...) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 15:04:04 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 15:04:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: off topic, yet on References: <200905060029.19362.amarjan@pobox.com> <20090506144031.GR21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > Doesn't anyone read html source anymore to work around stupid web designs? I tried that, the page redirects a couple of times using javascript and akmai. I do not have the patience for that, it's a *legal* beta d/l fgs. What has this world come to. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 15:48:23 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 11:48:23 -0400 Subject: off topic, yet on In-Reply-To: <4A01A564.9070400-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090506143913.GQ21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A01A564.9070400@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090506154823.GS21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 10:57:40AM -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: > I downloaded Windows 7 RC with iceweasel on lenny without problems. Mine got stuck on the spinning dots page and never went to the actual page with the download button. Maybe the noscript plugin was causing issues. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 16:27:42 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 16:27:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: off topic, yet on References: <20090506143913.GQ21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A01A564.9070400@teksavvy.com> <20090506154823.GS21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Fwiw i had to resort to getright on vista to get it going. Konqeror failed to get it on linux. Default handler for html was set to firefox, perhaps that's the reason. In any case, there will be NO third party d/l manager on my laptop under linux, EVER. I have better things to do than to discover that something is trying to update 200MB or exposes donkey ports to the firewall detectors when i connect through expensive airtime or through some begged off corporate network access. The actual d/l link seems to be static (does not change between attempts - I had to try several times to get it going). It looks like a data warehousing 'key' added to the file name (Akmai and company type). Really idiotic for them not to allow normal downloads though. On the other hand, it fits in with most company policy decisions, so ... Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 16:35:05 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 12:35:05 -0400 Subject: off topic, yet on In-Reply-To: References: <4A0173A8.2060908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A01BC39.80102@telly.org> Peter wrote: > Thanks all, I get the idea. I will d/l using windows. The i.d. section includes > the question 'what is your primary platform: windows/windows/windows/other'. I > was honest about that and chose other, apparently that's where the > cross-platform friendliness stops. I wonder how they intend to let users of > other platforms beta test their newest product ? (o, wait, they only like paying > beta testers, don't need the freebie ones ...) > I guess they assume that all the defections between Windows and Apple/Linux are one-way. :-) Honestly.... if you're already using Linux or MacOS, how could Win7 -- by all accounts a tidied-up version of Vista -- make you want to go back? Win7 is just the latest milestone on the Linux treadmill ... they could have simply enhanced XP but that wouldn't have driven much upgrade sales. And unless Win7 is cheaper than Vista, it'll be a good bit more expensive than XP was. As the cloud is becoming more important, the browser is increasingly seen as an application platform and the OS becomes less relevant, I think people are pushing back on the neverending cycle of Windows upgrades. And I think it's also important to note that the increasing irrelevancy of the desktop OS also has implications for Linux. By the time the Linux desktop becomes fully ready for mainstream acceptance, the desktop OS may not matter. I predict that the most popular Linux client OS will be Android, which will eventually out deploy all conventional distributions combined. It's only a matter of time before we start seeing Android-based netbooks and then watch out... Also consider the future of the GPL, given that GPLd applications running in the cloud don't need to release source. I have a funny feeling that the GPL3 may also become irrelevant after a very brief lifespan, as the FSF increasingly starts pushing the Affero GPL as its license of choice. I suspect that the GPL3 (without the Affero clauses about cloud use) may eventually be deprecated by the FSF just as the LGPL is now. In other words, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Affero GPL mutates into *the* (FSF-definitive and recommended) GPL4 far sooner than people expect. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 16:37:47 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 12:37:47 -0400 Subject: off topic, yet on In-Reply-To: <4A01BC39.80102-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A0173A8.2060908@rogers.com> <4A01BC39.80102@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A01BCDB.2040404@telly.org> Argh. > Win7 is just the latest milestone on the Linux treadmill ... Windows treadmill, I meant. Bah. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 16:58:56 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 12:58:56 -0400 Subject: bandwidth 1 over N Message-ID: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> 10 computers are sharing a public interface eth0. (5mbits) I want all 10 computers to share this interface fairly. (qos) Assigned the 5mbits bandwidth 1 over N. Where N is number of computers that have a dhcp lease and are pingable. (otherwise do not give them bandwidth) ubuntu-server 8.10 router box eth0 connects to the public interface (5 mbits/sec) eth1 (NAT) dhcpcd connects to all 10 computers What are some ways this can be done ? -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 17:28:07 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:28:07 -0400 Subject: bandwidth 1 over N In-Reply-To: <4A01C1D0.8050703-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20090506132807.a9e61fc4.tleslie@tcn.net> you can use iptables to do straight metering to a target MB/s, but thats not optimal, what you want to to be as bad as 1/N if all in action, else, give 1/(N-1), or whatever, i believe iptables can help in that aspect too, i would guess iptables is what you need, its just a matter of digging on it. you could use scripting and access to iptables info to get even fancier. -tl On Wed, 06 May 2009 12:58:56 -0400 teddy mills wrote: > > 10 computers are sharing a public interface eth0. (5mbits) > I want all 10 computers to share this interface fairly. (qos) > > Assigned the 5mbits bandwidth 1 over N. > Where N is number of computers that have a dhcp lease and are pingable. > (otherwise do not give them bandwidth) > > ubuntu-server 8.10 router box > > eth0 connects to the public interface (5 mbits/sec) > eth1 (NAT) dhcpcd connects to all 10 computers > > What are some ways this can be done ? > > -- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 17:28:09 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:28:09 -0400 Subject: off topic, yet on In-Reply-To: References: <20090506143913.GQ21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A01A564.9070400@teksavvy.com> <20090506154823.GS21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090506172809.GT21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 04:27:42PM +0000, Peter wrote: > Fwiw i had to resort to getright on vista to get it going. Konqeror failed to > get it on linux. Default handler for html was set to firefox, perhaps that's the > reason. In any case, there will be NO third party d/l manager on my laptop under > linux, EVER. I have better things to do than to discover that something is > trying to update 200MB or exposes donkey ports to the firewall detectors when i > connect through expensive airtime or through some begged off corporate network > access. > > The actual d/l link seems to be static (does not change between attempts - I had > to try several times to get it going). It looks like a data warehousing 'key' > added to the file name (Akmai and company type). Really idiotic for them not to > allow normal downloads though. On the other hand, it fits in with most company > policy decisions, so ... Well I simply looked at the page source, took the http url ending in .iso, ignored the parameters, and asked wget to get it, and off it went at the full 10mbit speed of my cable connection. So certainly the server doesn't mind if you don't use a download manager and don't pass in any parameters. My mistake though. Opera worked, konqueror was its usual awful mess. So the urls in the source are: http://wb.dlservice.microsoft.com/download/release/windows7/4/0/c/40c1e714-7910-4b38-9b5e-67fa522e6a44/7100.0.090421-1700_x86fre_client_en-us_retail_ultimate-grc1culfrer_en_dvd.iso http://wb.dlservice.microsoft.com/download/release/windows7/e/b/5/eb58e76e-17fa-409b-855f-11fbe84d1c93/7100.0.090421-1700_x64fre_client_en-us_retail_ultimate-grc1culxfrer_en_dvd.iso There you go. Use whatever you want. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 17:29:18 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:29:18 -0400 Subject: off topic, yet on In-Reply-To: <20090506154823.GS21464-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090506143913.GQ21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A01A564.9070400@teksavvy.com> <20090506154823.GS21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 10:57:40AM -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: >> I downloaded Windows 7 RC with iceweasel on lenny without problems. > > Mine got stuck on the spinning dots page and never went to the actual > page with the download button. > > Maybe the noscript plugin was causing issues. > I gave up after the third page when it was going to make me fill out a form after already entering a Windows Live id. I'm not that keen on getting hold of something that would only make a computer run poorly and do less, then expire ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 17:38:14 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:38:14 -0400 Subject: off topic, yet on In-Reply-To: <4A01BCDB.2040404-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A0173A8.2060908@rogers.com> <4A01BC39.80102@telly.org> <4A01BCDB.2040404@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090506133814.472275df.tleslie@tcn.net> i assume MS will one day be primarily linux oriented (how can they not be and stay in business?) so I had no confusion with your original statement :) -tl On Wed, 06 May 2009 12:37:47 -0400 Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Argh. > > Win7 is just the latest milestone on the Linux treadmill ... > Windows treadmill, I meant. Bah. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 17:43:51 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:43:51 -0400 Subject: bandwidth 1 over N In-Reply-To: <4A01C1D0.8050703-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20090506174351.GU21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 12:58:56PM -0400, teddy mills wrote: > 10 computers are sharing a public interface eth0. (5mbits) > I want all 10 computers to share this interface fairly. (qos) > > Assigned the 5mbits bandwidth 1 over N. > Where N is number of computers that have a dhcp lease and are pingable. > (otherwise do not give them bandwidth) > > ubuntu-server 8.10 router box > > eth0 connects to the public interface (5 mbits/sec) > eth1 (NAT) dhcpcd connects to all 10 computers > > What are some ways this can be done ? So if 5 computers are pingable you want 1mbit for each, even though 4 of the 5 don't currently want any bandwidth? I think your algorithm is bad. :) Now if you setup a queue for each one using tc and assign the same priority to each and the same bandwidth, and set each to have a guarentted bandwith of 1/10 of the total bandwidth, and full bandwidth as mxaimum, it probably would actually do a fairly good job of giving each one an even share, for however many currently want traffic. Setting asside some bandwidth for small packets at a higher priority tends to maek http requests and ssh and such work better. With shorewall I would do this: tcdevices: #INTERFACE IN-BANDWITH OUT-BANDWIDTH eth0 5000kbit 5000kbit tcclasses: #INTERFACE MARK RATE CEIL PRIORITY OPTIONS eth0 1 full/10 full 1 eth0 2 250kbit full 2 default eth0 11 250kbit full 2 eth0 12 250kbit full 2 eth0 13 250kbit full 2 eth0 14 250kbit full 2 eth0 15 250kbit full 2 eth0 16 250kbit full 2 eth0 17 250kbit full 2 eth0 18 250kbit full 2 eth0 19 250kbit full 2 eth0 20 250kbit full 2 tcrules: #MARK SOURCE DEST PROTO DEST SOURCE USER TEST LENGTH TOS # PORT(S) PORT(S) 11 192.168.1.101 - all - - - - - 12 192.168.1.102 - all - - - - - 13 192.168.1.103 - all - - - - - 14 192.168.1.104 - all - - - - - 15 192.168.1.105 - all - - - - - 16 192.168.1.106 - all - - - - - 17 192.168.1.107 - all - - - - - 18 192.168.1.108 - all - - - - - 19 192.168.1.109 - all - - - - - 20 192.168.1.110 - all - - - - - 1 - - all - - - - 1:100 This means anything smaller than 100 bytes will be given top priority and have at least 1/10 of the bandwidth. You could decide the make the small packet have a maximum of less than full, but lots of small packets are quite a rare event so probably not needed. Each machine from 192.168.1.101 to .110 each have a class with at least 250kbit and at most all the bandwidth, but all at identical priority so that tc should share any leftover bandwidth equally between them. overall each machine with traffic should get an even share. The default class (2 in this case) is for anyone not in your list of 10 IPs. So anyone you didn't add a rule for will all end up sharing one machine's worth of bandwith. Doing this without shorewall is a huge pain in the ass and I wouldn't want to do it. On top of the above you do at least have to add the interfaces, zones and policy tables to shorewall or it won't start. It is quite easy really. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 17:50:17 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:50:17 -0400 Subject: Canada's Open Source Prowess: 28th of 75 Countries Message-ID: <99a6c38f0905061050k41f4dd00s5e1d09f29ddf0ecd@mail.gmail.com> I meant to CC TLUG when I sent this to the CLUE discussion list earlier. I'd love to hear people's thoughts and/or interpretations... Michael Geist has posted an interesting article on a new ranking system (from Georgia Tech and Red Hat) about FOSS penetration in 75 countries around the world. According to their data, Canada has some work to do: Overall: 28 Government: 34 Industry: 17 Community: 16 I've been looking for statistics like these for several years - worth a look IMO. http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/3934/125/ http://www.redhat.com/about/where-is-open-source/activity/ -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 20:07:04 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 16:07:04 -0400 Subject: Updating the kernel version on the Debian 5.0 installer Message-ID: <4A01EDE8.7080802@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've got a shiny new box I am assembling as a server. It's an Intel DQ45EK system board using an Xeon E3110 CPU. Joy! However, the onboard 82567LM-3 Gigabit NIC uses the e1000e driver from the 2.6.28 kernel version. The install CD/DVD, however, uses the 2.6.26 kernel. No Joy. :( So then, can anyone pass along advice on how to re-roll the install CD/DVD ISO but with the 2.6.28 kernel? Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 20:40:10 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 16:40:10 -0400 Subject: Updating the kernel version on the Debian 5.0 installer In-Reply-To: <4A01EDE8.7080802-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01EDE8.7080802@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090506204010.GV21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 04:07:04PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I've got a shiny new box I am assembling as a server. It's an Intel > DQ45EK system board using an Xeon E3110 CPU. Joy! > > However, the onboard 82567LM-3 Gigabit NIC uses the e1000e driver from > the 2.6.28 kernel version. The install CD/DVD, however, uses the 2.6.26 > kernel. No Joy. :( > > So then, can anyone pass along advice on how to re-roll the install > CD/DVD ISO but with the 2.6.28 kernel? Not trivial to do. It is quite a bit of work actually. And you would want to go to 2.6.29 since at least debian has that packaged in unstable. The simplest option is to download the full cd 1 and install from that without networking, then get the 2.6.29 kernel from unstable and install that, then install everything else you need by network. The other option is to add a temporary PCI network card that is supported, install, then upgrade the kernel, then remove the temp card. Both methods will take a lot less time than trying to make a custom installer. I have done that, and it is a pain in the ass. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 21:03:51 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 17:03:51 -0400 Subject: Updating the kernel version on the Debian 5.0 installer In-Reply-To: <20090506204010.GV21464-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01EDE8.7080802@alteeve.com> <20090506204010.GV21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090506210351.GA23891@yam.witteman.ca> On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 04:40:10PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 04:07:04PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> I've got a shiny new box I am assembling as a server. It's an Intel >> DQ45EK system board using an Xeon E3110 CPU. Joy! >The simplest option is to download the full cd 1 and install from that >without networking, then get the 2.6.29 kernel from unstable and install >that, then install everything else you need by network. > >The other option is to add a temporary PCI network card that is supported, >install, then upgrade the kernel, then remove the temp card. > >Both methods will take a lot less time than trying to make a custom >installer. I have done that, and it is a pain in the ass. I would second Lennart's suggestion, with one caveat. I put in a temporary PCI NIC in a machine I bought, and never got around to updating the kernel to use the onboard NIC :-) Someone once said that makeshifts last the longest. Stonehenge was probably the temporary observatory until they got the new one built :-) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 6 21:28:07 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 17:28:07 -0400 Subject: Updating the kernel version on the Debian 5.0 installer In-Reply-To: <20090506210351.GA23891-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01EDE8.7080802@alteeve.com> <20090506204010.GV21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090506210351.GA23891@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4A0200E7.7040700@utoronto.ca> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 04:40:10PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 04:07:04PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> I've got a shiny new box I am assembling as a server. It's an Intel >>> DQ45EK system board using an Xeon E3110 CPU. Joy! > >> The simplest option is to download the full cd 1 and install from that >> without networking, then get the 2.6.29 kernel from unstable and install >> that, then install everything else you need by network. >> >> The other option is to add a temporary PCI network card that is supported, >> install, then upgrade the kernel, then remove the temp card. >> >> Both methods will take a lot less time than trying to make a custom >> installer. I have done that, and it is a pain in the ass. > > I would second Lennart's suggestion, with one caveat. I put in a > temporary PCI NIC in a machine I bought, and never got around to > updating the kernel to use the onboard NIC :-) > > Someone once said that makeshifts last the longest. Stonehenge was > probably the temporary observatory until they got the new one built :-) If you can boot USB, it isn't as bad as it sounds to use a custom kernel. See: http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/ http://wiki.debian.org/DebianLive/FAQ#Q.3AHowdoIuseacustomkernel.3F Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 7 11:41:27 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 07:41:27 -0400 Subject: Possible future talk; interest? Message-ID: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> Hi all, I saw an article this morning about how there isn't all that much in the way of "intermittent" level papers, talks and such on most programming languages. I'm not sure how true this is, but it got me thinking about a possible future talk for TLUG. I've been trying to think of a topic since I was asked to present again a month or two ago, so perhaps this fits? So then, would there be any interest in an intermittent talk about Perl? I was thinking along the lines of "Introduction to Writing Perl Modules", "Introduction to Object Oriented Perl" or something similar/variation of/combination of. I make no claim to be an expert in either of these fields, or in Perl itself, but I do feel confident enough in them to introduce the topics to people who may have an otherwise softer exposure to Perl. If so, I'd be ready later in the summer. If not, I will continue to think on another topic. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 7 11:43:02 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 07:43:02 -0400 Subject: Updating the kernel version on the Debian 5.0 installer In-Reply-To: <20090506204010.GV21464-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01EDE8.7080802@alteeve.com> <20090506204010.GV21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A02C946.2090004@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 04:07:04PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> I've got a shiny new box I am assembling as a server. It's an Intel >> DQ45EK system board using an Xeon E3110 CPU. Joy! >> >> However, the onboard 82567LM-3 Gigabit NIC uses the e1000e driver from >> the 2.6.28 kernel version. The install CD/DVD, however, uses the 2.6.26 >> kernel. No Joy. :( >> >> So then, can anyone pass along advice on how to re-roll the install >> CD/DVD ISO but with the 2.6.28 kernel? > > Not trivial to do. It is quite a bit of work actually. And you would > want to go to 2.6.29 since at least debian has that packaged in unstable. > > The simplest option is to download the full cd 1 and install from that > without networking, then get the 2.6.29 kernel from unstable and install > that, then install everything else you need by network. > > The other option is to add a temporary PCI network card that is supported, > install, then upgrade the kernel, then remove the temp card. > > Both methods will take a lot less time than trying to make a custom > installer. I have done that, and it is a pain in the ass. > Thanks (and thanks to William and Jamon), I've decided to follow your advice and just install from the full DVD and then update the kernel using the updates ISO. I'll see how that works out. Thanks again! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 7 12:31:33 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 08:31:33 -0400 Subject: bandwidth 1 over N In-Reply-To: <4A01C1D0.8050703-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> teddy mills wrote: > > 10 computers are sharing a public interface eth0. (5mbits) > I want all 10 computers to share this interface fairly. (qos) > > Assigned the 5mbits bandwidth 1 over N. > Where N is number of computers that have a dhcp lease and are pingable. > (otherwise do not give them bandwidth) > > ubuntu-server 8.10 router box > > eth0 connects to the public interface (5 mbits/sec) > eth1 (NAT) dhcpcd connects to all 10 computers > > What are some ways this can be done ? > I really don't understand what you're trying to do. Ethernet and the internet are intended to be shared on an as required basis. You don't worry about dividing bandwidth, as that is automatically done on an "as required" basis. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Thu May 7 12:44:57 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 08:44:57 -0400 Subject: bandwidth 1 over N In-Reply-To: <4A02D4A5.1070303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> Unless there is QOS in place, one computer can say take 4 of 5 mbits bandwidth by Torrent/FTP downloads etc leaving the other 9 to share 1 mbits. With QOS, each computer gets a fair share of the bandwdith. http:///www.untangle.com seems to have QOS (and many other nice pc router features) >> I really don't understand what you're trying to do. Ethernet and the >> internet are intended to be shared on an as required basis. You don't >> worry about dividing bandwidth, as that is automatically done on an "as >> required" basis. James Knott wrote: > teddy mills wrote: >> 10 computers are sharing a public interface eth0. (5mbits) >> I want all 10 computers to share this interface fairly. (qos) >> >> Assigned the 5mbits bandwidth 1 over N. >> Where N is number of computers that have a dhcp lease and are pingable. >> (otherwise do not give them bandwidth) >> >> ubuntu-server 8.10 router box >> >> eth0 connects to the public interface (5 mbits/sec) >> eth1 (NAT) dhcpcd connects to all 10 computers >> >> What are some ways this can be done ? >> -- [ Teddy David Mills System Administrator TMIS.ca ] [ Teddys Virtual Space of Sciences, Technology ] [ Music, Media, Linux and Open Source ] [ http://vger1.dyndns.org ] [ http://vger1.dyndns.org/wordpress ] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 7 13:14:04 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 17:14:04 +0400 Subject: mouse crazy In-Reply-To: <4A02D7C9.7020909-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4A02DE9C.7000605@gmail.com> One computer is of my wife (Windows). It used usb mouse. Another computer is mine (Linux). It also uses usb mouse. On both, mouse worked great, until I touched it. I swear, I did not do anything wrong!!! I just connected mouse to another usb outlet. Connecting back to previous usb slot did not help. Now, the mouse pointer on any of them (Windows or Linux) behaves sometime in a crazy way. Not always. We still can use it. But sometime it wonders out, to screen borders. Without fucken clear reason. This makes me crazy. And my wife becomes crazy too. She threatens to divorce me. Any idea? About the mouse, not my wife, I mean. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu May 7 13:21:44 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 09:21:44 -0400 Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? Message-ID: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> Now here's a wierd one. This came to the CLUE mailbox this morning, from what appears to be a PR company. -------- Original Message -------- Hi, Can PHP actually run as fast on Windows as it does on Linux? Apache? Do you want it to? Do you care? Garret Serack does. He?s a Calgary native who joined Microsoft two years ago as a software developer and program manager ? working exclusively on open source at the Microsoft Open Source Lab in Redmond . Garret?s current role at the lab is making PHP run faster on Windows, as well as working closely with the Apache teams on similar projects. He?s going to be in Toronto on May 12 and I thought that some of the CLUE members might be interested in meeting with him at for an informal session at Kultura Restaurant at 5:30pm over appetizers and drinks to learn more about his role at the labs. Let me know if you can attend or if you have questions. Thanks ------ End of Message ------- I've left out the contact details, but the request seems genuine. I will be out of town that day and I wouldn't know what to say anyway. Is there anyone here interested in going to this? The restaurant is at King and Jarvis and I'm assuming that drinks are on Microsoft. -- Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 7 13:29:16 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 09:29:16 -0400 Subject: mouse crazy In-Reply-To: <4A02DE9C.7000605-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> <4A02DE9C.7000605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090507092916.333ebd23.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 07 May 2009 17:14:04 +0400 Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > One computer is of my wife (Windows). It used usb mouse. Another > computer is mine (Linux). It also uses usb mouse. > > On both, mouse worked great, until I touched it. > > I swear, I did not do anything wrong!!! > > I just connected mouse to another usb outlet. Connecting back to > previous usb slot did not help. > > Now, the mouse pointer on any of them (Windows or Linux) behaves > sometime in a crazy way. Not always. We still can use it. But sometime > it wonders out, to screen borders. Without fucken clear reason. This > makes me crazy. And my wife becomes crazy too. She threatens to divorce me. > > Any idea? About the mouse, not my wife, I mean. > > zb. Zbigniew, Do you have a shiny table? The new, optical mice seem to work better on tables with rough, patterned surfaces and on mouse pads. Perhaps your wife is polishing the table too much. :) I have had problems with mice too. My cordless Logitech mouse has been perfect, so far. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 7 13:33:29 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 17:33:29 +0400 Subject: mouse crazy In-Reply-To: <20090507092916.333ebd23.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> <4A02DE9C.7000605@gmail.com> <20090507092916.333ebd23.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4A02E329.3080508@gmail.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > On Thu, 07 May 2009 17:14:04 +0400 > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > >> One computer is of my wife (Windows). It used usb mouse. Another >> computer is mine (Linux). It also uses usb mouse. >> >> On both, mouse worked great, until I touched it. >> >> I swear, I did not do anything wrong!!! >> >> I just connected mouse to another usb outlet. Connecting back to >> previous usb slot did not help. >> >> Now, the mouse pointer on any of them (Windows or Linux) behaves >> sometime in a crazy way. Not always. We still can use it. But sometime >> it wonders out, to screen borders. Without fucken clear reason. This >> makes me crazy. And my wife becomes crazy too. She threatens to divorce me. >> >> Any idea? About the mouse, not my wife, I mean. >> >> zb. >> > > Zbigniew, > > Do you have a shiny table? The new, optical mice seem to work better on tables with rough, patterned surfaces and on mouse pads. Perhaps your wife is polishing the table too much. :) > > What you mean about polishing? I am Polish. My wife is Russian with Polish roots. So what else can I polish there? I do not care about your shiny mouse. Please address the problem. zb. > I have had problems with mice too. My cordless Logitech mouse has been perfect, so far. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu May 7 17:49:43 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:49:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: <4A02E068.4090102-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 May 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Now here's a wierd one. This came to the CLUE mailbox this morning, from > what appears to be a PR company. > > > -------- Original Message -------- [SNIP] > Garret?s current role at the lab is making PHP run faster on Windows, as > well as working closely with the Apache teams on similar projects. He?s > going to be in Toronto on May 12 and I thought that some of the CLUE That would be the evening of our next TLUG meeting. Yes the one where I'm giving my previously delayed talk on backups :) Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 7 19:31:10 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 15:31:10 -0400 Subject: mouse crazy In-Reply-To: <4A02DE9C.7000605-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> <4A02DE9C.7000605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A0336FE.5000207@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > One computer is of my wife (Windows). It used usb mouse. Another > computer is mine (Linux). It also uses usb mouse. > > On both, mouse worked great, until I touched it. > > I swear, I did not do anything wrong!!! > > I just connected mouse to another usb outlet. Connecting back to > previous usb slot did not help. > > Now, the mouse pointer on any of them (Windows or Linux) behaves > sometime in a crazy way. Not always. We still can use it. But sometime > it wonders out, to screen borders. Without fucken clear reason. This > makes me crazy. And my wife becomes crazy too. She threatens to > divorce me. > > Any idea? About the mouse, not my wife, I mean. > You can get this behaviour with optical / laser mice when they are used highly reflective surfaces like marble, formica (plastic laminate), stainless steel, etc. When I was at Ryerson, the computer lab tables were covered with shiny, black formica and I used to take a sheet of construction paper with me to use as a mousing surface so as to eliminate the erratic cursor. HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 7 20:03:02 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 16:03:02 -0400 Subject: mouse crazy In-Reply-To: <4A0336FE.5000207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> <4A02DE9C.7000605@gmail.com> <4A0336FE.5000207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090507200302.GW21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 03:31:10PM -0400, John McGregor wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> >> One computer is of my wife (Windows). It used usb mouse. Another >> computer is mine (Linux). It also uses usb mouse. >> >> On both, mouse worked great, until I touched it. >> >> I swear, I did not do anything wrong!!! >> >> I just connected mouse to another usb outlet. Connecting back to >> previous usb slot did not help. >> >> Now, the mouse pointer on any of them (Windows or Linux) behaves >> sometime in a crazy way. Not always. We still can use it. But sometime >> it wonders out, to screen borders. Without fucken clear reason. This >> makes me crazy. And my wife becomes crazy too. She threatens to >> divorce me. >> >> Any idea? About the mouse, not my wife, I mean. >> > You can get this behaviour with optical / laser mice when they are used > highly reflective surfaces like marble, formica (plastic laminate), > stainless steel, etc. When I was at Ryerson, the computer lab tables > were covered with shiny, black formica and I used to take a sheet of > construction paper with me to use as a mousing surface so as to > eliminate the erratic cursor. Also sometimes a piece of dust or hair can get in where the sensor is and make the mouse behave in interesting ways. Just blowing at it gently usually solves that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 7 20:16:09 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 16:16:09 -0400 Subject: Lone Coder: The Cost Risks of Programming Standards In-Reply-To: References: <1241266942.12865.3.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: On 2009-05-06, Ken Burtch wrote: > Fair enough. Can we agree that some efforts to deploy programming > standards lack an understanding of the purpose for which the standards are > being deployed, turning them into an ego or power exercise? Although > risks cannot be perfectly assessed, surely some common sense questions > like "is what we're enforcing really addressing the issues" are valuable. There lies the issue of how to keep policies from taking on too much of a life of their own. This is a grander issue than it appears at first glance. Our legal framework encounters much the same kinds of problems, where, over time, things can change so that laws and regulations created for other contexts cease to "really address the issues." The controversies surrounding copyright and such like are a good example of that. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 7 21:29:39 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 17:29:39 -0400 Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A0352C3.4070307@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > > That would be the evening of our next TLUG meeting. > > Yes the one where I'm giving my previously delayed talk on backups :) > > Rob > Maybe we should change the venue this one time. We could do an emergency intervention on the Microsoft guy. :p -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 01:38:10 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 21:38:10 -0400 Subject: bandwidth 1 over N In-Reply-To: <4A02D7C9.7020909-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4A038D02.7070903@rogers.com> teddymills wrote: > Unless there is QOS in place, one computer can say take 4 of 5 > mbits bandwidth by Torrent/FTP downloads etc leaving the other > 9 to share 1 mbits. With QOS, each computer gets a fair share of the > bandwdith. > QoS generally gives priority to certain types of traffic. You can configure "round robin" queuing, which ensures every device gets to send, though ordinary switches do a decent job of that. If one computer has a need for lots of traffice at a given time, and the rest little, why shouldn't it get most of the bandwidth? It's not a case of the one with most the traffic not allowing the others to have some. Switches tend to handle packets on a first come, first serve basis, where each device has equal access. It is possible to configure other situations, with better quality switches. TCP also has mechanisms built in, to detect bottlenecks and throttle accordingly. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 13:34:47 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 09:34:47 -0400 Subject: bandwidth 1 over N In-Reply-To: <4A038D02.7070903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> <4A038D02.7070903@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090508133447.GX21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 09:38:10PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > QoS generally gives priority to certain types of traffic. You can > configure "round robin" queuing, which ensures every device gets to > send, though ordinary switches do a decent job of that. If one computer > has a need for lots of traffice at a given time, and the rest little, > why shouldn't it get most of the bandwidth? It's not a case of the one > with most the traffic not allowing the others to have some. Switches > tend to handle packets on a first come, first serve basis, where each > device has equal access. It is possible to configure other situations, > with better quality switches. TCP also has mechanisms built in, to > detect bottlenecks and throttle accordingly. A switch isn't useful for helping a wan link. An ftp or http or similar connection can easily fill all the buffers on the wan port and make it very hard to any other connections to get started. So qos with tc in linux can be very helpful. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 14:10:30 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 10:10:30 -0400 Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: <4A02E068.4090102-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> Message-ID: <24E9C4D3-B642-4E97-8C00-827C16E93103@mylesbraithwaite.com> What about inviting them to beer? --- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ Please consider the trees before print this email. On 7-May-09, at 9:21 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Now here's a wierd one. This came to the CLUE mailbox this morning, > from what appears to be a PR company. > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Hi, > > > > Can PHP actually run as fast on Windows as it does on Linux? Apache? > Do you want it to? Do you care? Garret Serack does. He?s a Calgary > native who joined Microsoft two years ago as a software developer > and program manager ? working exclusively on open source at the > Microsoft Open Source Lab in Redmond. > > > > Garret?s current role at the lab is making PHP run faster on > Windows, as well as working closely with the Apache teams on similar > projects. He?s going to be in Toronto on May 12 and I thought that > some of the CLUE members might be interested in meeting with him at > for an informal session at Kultura Restaurant at 5:30pm over > appetizers and drinks to learn more about his role at the labs. > > > > Let me know if you can attend or if you have questions. > > > > Thanks > > > ------ End of Message ------- > > I've left out the contact details, but the request seems genuine. I > will be out of town that day and I wouldn't know what to say anyway. > > Is there anyone here interested in going to this? The restaurant is > at King and Jarvis and I'm assuming that drinks are on Microsoft. > > > -- Evan > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 14:33:11 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 10:33:11 -0400 Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: <24E9C4D3-B642-4E97-8C00-827C16E93103-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> <24E9C4D3-B642-4E97-8C00-827C16E93103@mylesbraithwaite.com> Message-ID: <4A0442A7.30804@telly.org> Myles Braithwaite wrote: > What about inviting them to beer? I've already replied back about Tuesday being TLUG night. Who knows, he may show up at Pho Hung. :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 16:03:34 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 12:03:34 -0400 Subject: Can Windows 7 RC dual boot? Message-ID: <4A0457D6.6080803@telly.org> Hi all. I'm downloading the ISO of the publicly-available Windows 7 RC from the Microsoft website. This version expires in June 2010 so there's time to play and then wipe it out. Has anyone else here tried it? How well does it coexist with Linux? Can it install to an empty partition or does it insist on filling the disk? I'm hoping I can set it up to be the third bootable partition on a system that already has Linux and XP setups that I don't want to destroy. Thanks for any suggestions. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 17:46:21 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:46:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: mouse crazy In-Reply-To: <4A02E329.3080508-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> <4A02DE9C.7000605@gmail.com> <20090507092916.333ebd23.hgibson@eol.ca> <4A02E329.3080508@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 May 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Howard Gibson wrote: >> Do you have a shiny table? The new, optical mice seem to >> work better on tables with rough, patterned surfaces and on >> mouse pads. Perhaps your wife is polishing the table too >> much. :) > > What you mean about polishing? I am Polish. My wife is Russian > with Polish roots. So what else can I polish there? > I do not care about your shiny mouse. Please address the > problem. I think you are to emotional. Sit down and take some long breath. :-) -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 17:53:25 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: mouse crazy In-Reply-To: <4A02E329.3080508-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> <4A02DE9C.7000605@gmail.com> <20090507092916.333ebd23.hgibson@eol.ca> <4A02E329.3080508@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 May 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > What you mean about polishing? I am Polish. My wife is Russian with Polish > roots. So what else can I polish there? 1 pol.ish \'pa_:l-ish\ vb 1: to make smooth and glossy usu. by rubbing 2: to refine or improve in manners or condition 3: to bring to a highly developed, finished, or refined state 2 polish n 1: a smooth glossy surface : LUSTER 2: REFINEMENT, CULTURE 3: the action or process of polishing Pol.ish \'po_--lish\ n : the language of Poland -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 17:59:58 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: copylefts (Re:off topic, yet on) In-Reply-To: <4A01BC39.80102-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A0173A8.2060908@rogers.com> <4A01BC39.80102@telly.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 May 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > given that GPLd applications running in the cloud don't need > to release source. Is that true? I can see that applies to server-side applications, but many of web application has most of the interface code delivered to the users as client-side applications (Javascript stuff). Wouldn't this constitute "distribution", and therefore the copyleft requirement (if any) will apply? > may eventually be deprecated by the FSF just as the LGPL is > now. Is there any recommended license which copyleft but allow to linked (even statically) in a software with other license? > I predict that the most popular Linux client OS will be > Android, Any future for Moblin and Limo? -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 18:54:41 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 14:54:41 -0400 Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: <4A0442A7.30804-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> <24E9C4D3-B642-4E97-8C00-827C16E93103@mylesbraithwaite.com> <4A0442A7.30804@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A047FF1.6000704@telly.org> > Myles Braithwaite wrote: > >> What about inviting them to beer? >> > > I've already replied back about Tuesday being TLUG night. Who knows, he > may show up at Pho Hung. :-) Actually, I just got off the phone with his co-ordinator, who says he will probably show up at the Grad Pub at about 9 and buy drinks for any TLUGgers who don't swear at him. (Though I'm not totally sure of that last part.) I've given them Richard W's contact info since I won't be able to attend anyway. So they can confirm the when and where. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 19:35:42 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 15:35:42 -0400 Subject: copylefts (Re:off topic, yet on) In-Reply-To: References: <4A0173A8.2060908@rogers.com> <4A01BC39.80102@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A04898E.5060407@telly.org> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Wed, 6 May 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> given that GPLd applications running in the cloud don't need to >> release source. > > Is that true? I can see that applies to server-side applications, but > many of web application has most of the interface code delivered to > the users as client-side applications (Javascript stuff). Wouldn't > this constitute "distribution", and therefore the copyleft requirement > (if any) will apply? May be, but that would still only cover the UI bits. The heavy lifting -- the real value added components where most of the would-be proprietary bits would be -- are still server-side. >> I predict that the most popular Linux client OS will be Android, > > Any future for Moblin and Limo? In my opinion? Only if they're able to run Android apps. And even then it'll be tough. Apps support is key. And developers do not want to develop for any more platforms than they have to. As of now there are a bunch they have to consider, based on corporate support and installed base. - iPhone - Blackberry - WindowsMobile - Symbian (freshly open sourced, but not Linux) - Android Frankly, I think that apps availability will be the achilles heel of the Palm Pre. And if the Pre can't survive even with its innovative UI, then Moblin and Limo are going to have a really hard time. This is not the Linux desktop world -- there is little tolerance in smartphone space for small players. Volume is everything -- in users, telcos, apps, etc. There's more diversity here than on the PC desktop, but the market won't likely tolerate more than we have now. IMO Moblin is a thinly disguised way for Intel to get community support for its aim to compete with ARM in smartphone space. I see the Moblin project being more successful in bringing smartphone sensibilities to netbooks, than the opposite. Unless Moblin will run Adroid apps (which will be native for the ARM cpu) forget any significant smartphone deployment. As for LiMo, I see it going the way of OpenMoko. Motorola has abandoned its Limo plans in favour of a strategy based on Android. Ditto Samsung. Compare the membership of the Open Handset Alliance with the LiMo Foundation, many have effectively jumped ship already. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 19:45:11 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 15:45:11 -0400 Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: <4A047FF1.6000704-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> <24E9C4D3-B642-4E97-8C00-827C16E93103@mylesbraithwaite.com> <4A0442A7.30804@telly.org> <4A047FF1.6000704@telly.org> Message-ID: <1241811911.741.178.camel@leon> On Fri, 2009-05-08 at 14:54 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > Myles Braithwaite wrote: > > > > > What about inviting them to beer? > > > > > > > I've already replied back about Tuesday being TLUG night. Who knows, he > > may show up at Pho Hung. :-) > > Actually, I just got off the phone with his co-ordinator, who says he > will probably show up at the Grad Pub at about 9 At the pub seems best. Those interested can listen in. No need to interrupt a regularly scheduled speaker on a much anticipated topic. That would be really rude. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 20:43:39 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 16:43:39 -0400 Subject: Can Windows 7 RC dual boot? In-Reply-To: <4A0457D6.6080803-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A0457D6.6080803@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090508204339.GY21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 12:03:34PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I'm downloading the ISO of the publicly-available Windows 7 RC from the > Microsoft website. This version expires in June 2010 so there's time to > play and then wipe it out. > > Has anyone else here tried it? How well does it coexist with Linux? Can > it install to an empty partition or does it insist on filling the disk? > I'm hoping I can set it up to be the third bootable partition on a > system that already has Linux and XP setups that I don't want to destroy. I just installed windows 7 rc (build 7100) on my new laptop (repkacing vista home basic) and then installed debian testing afterwards, and grub thinks it found vista, but everything works fine. As usual, install windows _first_, then the other OS. The windows installer has no issue with making a partition that isn't the entire drive. It will want to make two partitions (a small system reserved one and a main one for windows). Linux can then have a primary partition for root and logical partitions for swap and other stuff or LVM. Installing it on a machine that already has stuff is not likely to go well. It will require being the first partition of the first drive. No exceptions (this is true of vista as well), at least based on what I have read. I have never had much luck with most windows versions trying to put them anywhere other than first. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 20:56:04 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 16:56:04 -0400 Subject: Is Microsoft trying to fragment the ODF standard? Message-ID: <1241816164.741.181.camel@leon> Is Microsoft trying to fragment the ODF standard? http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/05/update-on-odf-spreadsheet.html http://homembit.com/2009/05/microsoft-now-attempt-to-fragment-odf.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 8 21:10:31 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 17:10:31 -0400 Subject: Is Microsoft trying to fragment the ODF standard? In-Reply-To: <1241816164.741.181.camel@leon> References: <1241816164.741.181.camel@leon> Message-ID: <20090508211031.GZ21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 04:56:04PM -0400, Richard Weait wrote: > Is Microsoft trying to fragment the ODF standard? > > http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/05/update-on-odf-spreadsheet.html > > http://homembit.com/2009/05/microsoft-now-attempt-to-fragment-odf.html Well almost certainly they are. Why would they change their behaviour now? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 9 00:30:00 2009 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 20:30:00 -0400 Subject: Is Microsoft trying to fragment the ODF standard? In-Reply-To: <1241816164.741.181.camel@leon> References: <1241816164.741.181.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > Is Microsoft trying to fragment the ODF standard? > > http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/05/update-on-odf-spreadsheet.html > > http://homembit.com/2009/05/microsoft-now-attempt-to-fragment-odf.html I would highly recommend a visit to Groklaw, particularly to read the latest post: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2009050712493241 PJ isn't shy about digging for the truth, whatever that turns out to be. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 9 00:45:02 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 20:45:02 -0400 Subject: Possible future talk; interest? In-Reply-To: <4A02C8E7.4030700-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> I guess not, lol. I'll go back to thinking on other topics. :) Madi Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I saw an article this morning about how there isn't all that much in > the way of "intermittent" level papers, talks and such on most > programming languages. I'm not sure how true this is, but it got me > thinking about a possible future talk for TLUG. I've been trying to > think of a topic since I was asked to present again a month or two ago, > so perhaps this fits? > > So then, would there be any interest in an intermittent talk about > Perl? I was thinking along the lines of "Introduction to Writing Perl > Modules", "Introduction to Object Oriented Perl" or something > similar/variation of/combination of. > > I make no claim to be an expert in either of these fields, or in Perl > itself, but I do feel confident enough in them to introduce the topics > to people who may have an otherwise softer exposure to Perl. > > If so, I'd be ready later in the summer. If not, I will continue to > think on another topic. :) > > Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat May 9 03:25:02 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 23:25:02 -0400 Subject: Can Windows 7 RC dual boot? In-Reply-To: <20090508204339.GY21464-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4A0457D6.6080803@telly.org> <20090508204339.GY21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A04F78E.90906@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I just installed windows 7 rc (build 7100) on my new laptop (repkacing > vista home basic) and then installed debian testing afterwards, and grub > thinks it found vista, but everything works fine. > > As usual, install windows _first_, then the other OS. > As I said, > I'm hoping I can set it up to be the third bootable partition on a > system that already has Linux and XP setups that I don't want to destroy. Any suggestions? The best I've heard so far is to install the Win7 and let its bootloader install, then boot from an Ubuntu Live CD and reinstall GRUB. http://apcmag.com/how_to_dualboot_vista_with_linux_linux_is_already_installed.htm?page=6 I've never used grub's command line before. Are there easier solutions? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 9 12:02:02 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 08:02:02 -0400 Subject: Is Microsoft trying to fragment the ODF standard? In-Reply-To: <1241816164.741.181.camel@leon> References: <1241816164.741.181.camel@leon> Message-ID: <4A0570BA.5020806@rogers.com> Richard Weait wrote: > Is Microsoft trying to fragment the ODF standard? > > http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/05/update-on-odf-spreadsheet.html > > http://homembit.com/2009/05/microsoft-now-attempt-to-fragment-odf.html > > Would you expect anything else? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 9 13:42:56 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 13:42:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> <24E9C4D3-B642-4E97-8C00-827C16E93103@mylesbraithwaite.com> <4A0442A7.30804@telly.org> <4A047FF1.6000704@telly.org> Message-ID: Evan Leibovitch writes: > TLUGgers who don't swear at him. (Though I'm not totally sure of that Who defines what 'swearing' is in this context ? Is the Li-word or the Oo-word badmouthing ? :) P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 9 13:54:15 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 13:54:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: mouse crazy References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> <4A02DE9C.7000605@gmail.com> Message-ID: Zbigniew Koziol writes: > On both, mouse worked great, until I touched it. A couple of things: - hotplugging mice sometimes drives the computer's mouse processing machine insane. reboot the windows pc and restart the X server on *nix, then try again. - it is possible and likely to kill consumer (!!) equipment by touching it in winter/spring when humidity is low. the cause is static electricity that will cause a small discharge when you touch something. try the mouse with a third computer and with an ordinary pad under it (cardboard file sleeve or sheet of paper). if it still does not work get rid of the mouse. - remind your wife that she is supposed to bear with you in good and bad. that includes computer and mouse problems :) In general do not hotplug pointer devices if you do not have a good reason to do so. Similar things occur with cheap kvm (not the brand) switches if the mouse moves while the switching occurs. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 9 21:12:33 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 17:12:33 -0400 Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> <24E9C4D3-B642-4E97-8C00-827C16E93103@mylesbraithwaite.com> <4A0442A7.30804@telly.org> <4A047FF1.6000704@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A05F1C1.5080703@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > Evan Leibovitch writes: > >> TLUGgers who don't swear at him. (Though I'm not totally sure of that >> > > Who defines what 'swearing' is in this context ? Is the Li-word or the Oo-word > badmouthing ? :) > > Just don't mention Goo**e. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 10 01:56:15 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 18:56:15 -0700 Subject: SIP providers, VOIP phones, and Linux Message-ID: <3a97ef0905091856h5365e44dwc2a51e148388dcf9@mail.gmail.com> My girlfriend does a fair bit of long-distance and international long-distance calling. We've actually moved out of Toronto so some of the cheaper VOIP providers aren't necessarily available, but I was thinking that it might make more sense just to pick up a standalone wifi/VOIP phone and do things myself. However, I'm not really sure about where to get started on it all. I've got a lower-consumption 'nix server that runs pretty much constantly which could handle the software angle of things, but what would I do to get connected with a dialout # and, further to that, how would I then tie that into a VOIP phone (or heck, even do it with the VOIP phone and not needing the server). Any ideas/suggestions? - TJA -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 10 02:22:11 2009 From: alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Kink) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 22:22:11 -0400 Subject: SIP providers, VOIP phones, and Linux In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0905091856h5365e44dwc2a51e148388dcf9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0905091856h5365e44dwc2a51e148388dcf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1eea116a0905091922i5c68470ftac2ee16ca490cf97@mail.gmail.com> For a very basic setup you can just get a SIP phone or a SIP adapter (you can check a place like canadianvoipstore.com for ideas) Then get a VoIP account with a provider who has good international rate and configure your SIP phone/adapter to use that account. Ofcourse you can always go with Skype that has great call quality and great rates. -Alex On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > My girlfriend does a fair bit of long-distance and international > long-distance calling. We've actually moved out of Toronto so some of > the cheaper VOIP providers aren't necessarily available, but I was > thinking that it might make more sense just to pick up a standalone > wifi/VOIP phone and do things myself. > > However, I'm not really sure about where to get started on it all. > I've got a lower-consumption 'nix server that runs pretty much > constantly which could handle the software angle of things, but what > would I do to get connected with a dialout # and, further to that, how > would I then tie that into a VOIP phone (or heck, even do it with the > VOIP phone and not needing the server). > > > Any ideas/suggestions? > > > - TJA > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (778) 890-0942 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 10 02:38:20 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 19:38:20 -0700 Subject: SIP providers, VOIP phones, and Linux In-Reply-To: <1eea116a0905091922i5c68470ftac2ee16ca490cf97-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0905091856h5365e44dwc2a51e148388dcf9@mail.gmail.com> <1eea116a0905091922i5c68470ftac2ee16ca490cf97@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0905091938r1ca80e11p771aa42fb7784df@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Alex Kink wrote: > For a very basic setup you can just get a SIP phone or a > SIP adapter (you can check a place like canadianvoipstore.com for ideas) > > Then get a VoIP account with a provider who has good international rate > and configure your SIP phone/adapter to use that account. > > Ofcourse you can always go with Skype that has great call quality > and great rates. > > -Alex > > On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> My girlfriend does a fair bit of long-distance and international >> long-distance calling. We've actually moved out of Toronto so some of >> the cheaper VOIP providers aren't necessarily available, but I was >> thinking that it might make more sense just to pick up a standalone >> wifi/VOIP phone and do things myself. >> >> However, I'm not really sure about where to get started on it all. >> I've got a lower-consumption 'nix server that runs pretty much >> constantly which could handle the software angle of things, but what >> would I do to get connected with a dialout # and, further to that, how >> would I then tie that into a VOIP phone (or heck, even do it with the >> VOIP phone and not needing the server). >> >> >> Any ideas/suggestions? >> >> >> - TJA >> >> -- >> Tyler Aviss >> Systems Support >> LPIC/LPIC-2 >> (778) 890-0942 >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > Skype was going to be the fallback option, and certainly there are plenty of "skype phones" out there, but it would be cool if I could manage to get things going without it. My main issues with skype is that it does some fairly funky things to networks to ensure a connection, and can be a bit of a resource hog at times as well. Setting up my own VOIP gateway or PBX seems to be more fun as a geek project, and with that I could find something fun in the iPhone jailbroken repositories to connect to my server when I'm at home. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun May 10 03:05:09 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 20:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SIP providers, VOIP phones, and Linux In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0905091856h5365e44dwc2a51e148388dcf9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0905091856h5365e44dwc2a51e148388dcf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <788618.89917.qm@web59516.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello TJA You can get a Linksys voip sip ata box for $50 to $100, if you don't have one already. I used to be with Igonet, but recently signed up with Voipgo and I pay about $20/m for North America. Good luck in your search and desision on VoIP. Kind regards! Abidel ________________________________ From: Tyler Aviss To: tlug Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:56:15 PM Subject: [TLUG]: SIP providers, VOIP phones, and Linux My girlfriend does a fair bit of long-distance and international long-distance calling. We've actually moved out of Toronto so some of the cheaper VOIP providers aren't necessarily available, but I was thinking that it might make more sense just to pick up a standalone wifi/VOIP phone and do things myself. However, I'm not really sure about where to get started on it all. I've got a lower-consumption 'nix server that runs pretty much constantly which could handle the software angle of things, but what would I do to get connected with a dialout # and, further to that, how would I then tie that into a VOIP phone (or heck, even do it with the VOIP phone and not needing the server). Any ideas/suggestions? - TJA -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 10 15:42:54 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 11:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SIP providers, VOIP phones, and Linux In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0905091856h5365e44dwc2a51e148388dcf9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0905091856h5365e44dwc2a51e148388dcf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Tyler Aviss | We've actually moved out of Toronto so some of | the cheaper VOIP providers aren't necessarily available, but I was | thinking that it might make more sense just to pick up a standalone | wifi/VOIP phone and do things myself. VoIP is a solution. It would be helpful to delineate the problem a little more. Pure VoIP doesn't care where you are as long as you have a good internet connection. Outbound calls and inbound calls are different. Do you want to handle both? To handle inbound calls, from the PSTN (Publically Switched Telephone Network), you need a DID (i.e. a phone number). DID's cost money. If you care about the area code, that may limit your choice of suppliers. For example, I wanted a Kingston DID and Unlimitel.ca stopped offering them so I got bounced as a customer. They offer them again now. You can buy a la carte service from a number of providers (choose the bits you want) for a fairly low rate, or yo can buy a bundle that approximates a regular phone. I like a la carte, but it requires more knowledge. Skype is bad in several ways. One is that it seems to require having a PC running all the time. Another is that it uses a proprietary protocol. Everyone else uses SIP + RTP. Note: privacy is questionable -- no encryption is used. As for hardware, this is a pretty good thing to get: http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014833&cid=828.480 The PAP2T-NA has not been locked to a paritcular provider. $51 is about as cheap as a never-locked one gets. This lets you hook a normal phone up to VoIP. Actually, it supports two phones (or a two-line phone). No need to have a PC on all the time. VoIP phones are more expensive than regular phones and there is less choice of features. It is quite possible that a wireless router is all you need to enable some cell phones with 802.11g to do VoIP. But I would guess that most cell phone providers probably block this (or tie it to their service) since it is not in their interest. Asterisk is open source PBX software. Probably overkill for your use. http://taug.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 10 17:51:49 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 13:51:49 -0400 Subject: Centos 5 & b43 wireless drivers Message-ID: Hello pals, Has anybody here ever heard of a way of using b43 drivers with Centos 5? >From my research, the only way that can be achieved is through compiling the kernel, which then mean I can not update it frequently for security. The same apply when using the wrapper, when there is a kernel update, the whole thing break. The native driver in Centos 5.3 is bcm43xx and they do not seem to work however hard I try. I have a Broadcom Corporation BCM4311, which I hate with passion, but can not do much about it for the time being Regards, William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 10 21:06:35 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 17:06:35 -0400 Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: <4A02E068.4090102-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> Message-ID: On 5/7/09, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Now here's a wierd one. This came to the CLUE mailbox this morning, from > what appears to be a PR company. I would be interested in sticking my nose in briefly at this, could you send me the details. Thanks. I mean I have had some nice things to say about Microsoft (hardware) in print. Colin. > -------- Original Message -------- > > Hi, > > > > Can PHP actually run as fast on Windows as it does on Linux? Apache? Do > you want it to? Do you care? Garret Serack > does. He?s a Calgary native who joined > Microsoft two years ago as a software developer and program manager ? > working exclusively on open source at the Microsoft Open Source Lab in > Redmond . > > > > Garret?s current role at the lab is making PHP run faster on Windows, as > well as working closely with the Apache teams on similar projects. He?s > going to be in Toronto on May 12 and I thought that some of the CLUE > members might be interested in meeting with him at for an informal > session at Kultura Restaurant > at 5:30pm over appetizers > and drinks to learn more about his role at the labs. > > > > Let me know if you can attend or if you have questions. > > > > Thanks > > > > ------ End of Message ------- > > > I've left out the contact details, but the request seems genuine. I will > be out of town that day and I wouldn't know what to say anyway. > > > Is there anyone here interested in going to this? The restaurant is at > King and Jarvis and I'm assuming that drinks are on Microsoft. > > > > -- Evan > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 05:47:06 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 22:47:06 -0700 Subject: SIP providers, VOIP phones, and Linux (UPDATE) Message-ID: <3a97ef0905102247o4c4ca8f0t4bf5f394a220c669@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > My girlfriend does a fair bit of long-distance and international > long-distance calling. We've actually moved out of Toronto so some of > the cheaper VOIP providers aren't necessarily available, but I was > thinking that it might make more sense just to pick up a standalone > wifi/VOIP phone and do things myself. > > However, I'm not really sure about where to get started on it all. > I've got a lower-consumption 'nix server that runs pretty much > constantly which could handle the software angle of things, but what > would I do to get connected with a dialout # and, further to that, how > would I then tie that into a VOIP phone (or heck, even do it with the > VOIP phone and not needing the server). > > > Any ideas/suggestions? > > > - TJA > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (778) 890-0942 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Just an update on this. I'm currently trying out service with voicemeup.com. I signed up on Saturday evening, put $20 into the account, and had service when I checked it around noon on Sunday. After futzing around with Asterisk a bit, and then later with Ekiga some more, it looks like things are actually working quite nicely. Since I've moved to what's essentially middle-of-nowhere-BC now, I can't get a local DID, but I've set the caller ID to my cellular # and rates about $0.017 or so a minute (Canada or China) without having to deal with a monthly contract just yet. For $35 I could get an 800 number and 2500 minutes/month, which is somewhat tempting but I'll hold off on that until I've tried the whole thing out for awhile :-) It seems they're actually doing themselves a disservice with their rates table, since the actual rates were recently cut by around 20% for most destinations, but here's the list: http://www.voicemeup.com/rates.html Next project is to dig around some old boxes, find the long-since abandoned "yealink" USB->POTS adapter that I once had a hair-pulling experience trying to make work with Skype, and see if I can get the thing to work a little more nicely with Asterisk :-) - TJA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 13:08:13 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 09:08:13 -0400 Subject: Cyberwar: Cadets Trade the Trenches for Firewalls Message-ID: <4A08233D.7060308@teksavvy.com> Brian McCord, part of the team that installed the operating system, said he was chosen because his senior project was deeply reliant on Linux. The West Point team used this open-source operating system, freely available on the Internet, instead of relying on proprietary products from big-name companies like Microsoft or Sun Microsystems . http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/11/technology/11cybergames.html?hp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 13:11:39 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 09:11:39 -0400 Subject: Can Windows 7 RC dual boot? In-Reply-To: <4A04F78E.90906-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A0457D6.6080803@telly.org> <20090508204339.GY21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A04F78E.90906@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090511131139.GA21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 11:25:02PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I just installed windows 7 rc (build 7100) on my new laptop (repkacing > > vista home basic) and then installed debian testing afterwards, and grub > > thinks it found vista, but everything works fine. > > > > As usual, install windows _first_, then the other OS. > > > As I said, > > I'm hoping I can set it up to be the third bootable partition on a > > system that already has Linux and XP setups that I don't want to destroy. > Any suggestions? The best I've heard so far is to install the Win7 and > let its bootloader install, then boot from an Ubuntu Live CD and > reinstall GRUB. > > http://apcmag.com/how_to_dualboot_vista_with_linux_linux_is_already_installed.htm?page=6 > > I've never used grub's command line before. Are there easier solutions? A windows install WILL destroy your existing boot loader. As a result there is nothing simpler than somehow restoring your boot laoder after the fact. If you have a floppy drive you can simply boot from a grub floopy, set the root drive, load the config file, and boot your linux system, then add the windows drive to the grub menu, and run grub-install again (usually grub-install /dev/sda or /dev/hda). You can also make a cd with floppy boot emulation with a grub floppy to do the same thing. Both ways are easier in my opinion that the use of a live cd. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 13:23:11 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 09:23:11 -0400 Subject: Full system encryption for Linux (yes, even the kernel) & Dual boot encryption Message-ID: <7c50d3570905110623i5ed23b15q9f79a66dd2a465fb@mail.gmail.com> http://tech.xerces.com/full-system-encryption-for-linux.geek http://tech.xerces.com/dual-boot-encryption.geek -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 15:09:36 2009 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 11:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Refilling Lexmark Laser Print Cartridges? Message-ID: <6171.99.253.254.243.1242054576.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Has anyone had any experience refilling the laser printer cartridges for a Lexmark C530 printer? The cartridges are about $120 new, the printer takes four of them and it's starting to add up... Any advice or name of reputable supplier would be appreciated - -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 15:15:26 2009 From: asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Asaf Maruf) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 11:15:26 -0400 Subject: Refilling Lexmark Laser Print Cartridges? In-Reply-To: <6171.99.253.254.243.1242054576.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <6171.99.253.254.243.1242054576.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <49e826e90905110815h19e7d10at25e6569107505562@mail.gmail.com> I have a Lexmark x6500 series printer, I got the cartridges refilled a few months back from one of the kiosks in Square One. Wal-Mart also offers this service. Albeit I do not use the printer heavily, the cartridge has lasted well. I paid a fraction of what it would cost to get a new cartridge. Asaf On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 11:09 AM, wrote: > Has anyone had any experience refilling the laser printer cartridges for a > Lexmark C530 printer? The cartridges are about $120 new, the printer takes > four of them and it's starting to add up... > > Any advice or name of reputable supplier would be appreciated - > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- twitter.com/asaf LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/asafmaruf Don Marquis - "Procrastination is the art of keeping up with yesterday." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 16:19:46 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 12:19:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Can Windows 7 RC dual boot? In-Reply-To: <20090511131139.GA21464-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4A0457D6.6080803@telly.org> <20090508204339.GY21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A04F78E.90906@telly.org> <20090511131139.GA21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 May 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Both ways are easier in my opinion that the use of a live cd. Some live CDs actually have in their boot menu option to boot from existing bootable partition, especially rescue live CD such as SystemRescueCD. Wouldn't this be even easier than the methods you mentioned, expecially when the system does not have floppy drive? -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 16:25:47 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 12:25:47 -0400 Subject: Refilling Lexmark Laser Print Cartridges? In-Reply-To: <6171.99.253.254.243.1242054576.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <6171.99.253.254.243.1242054576.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20090511162547.GB21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 11:09:36AM -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Has anyone had any experience refilling the laser printer cartridges for a > Lexmark C530 printer? The cartridges are about $120 new, the printer takes > four of them and it's starting to add up... > > Any advice or name of reputable supplier would be appreciated - For some printers you can get compatible toner cartridges (Certainly for xerox you can often find those for half the cost of the original xerox cartridge, which already costs less than what lexmark wants). I don't seem to see many of those for lexmark though, and the few that exist are not much cheaper than the original cartridges. That looks like it could be an expensive printer to run if you can't find a way to refill the toner cheaper. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 16:27:00 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 12:27:00 -0400 Subject: Can Windows 7 RC dual boot? In-Reply-To: References: <4A0457D6.6080803@telly.org> <20090508204339.GY21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A04F78E.90906@telly.org> <20090511131139.GA21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090511162700.GC21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 12:19:46PM -0400, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Mon, 11 May 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Both ways are easier in my opinion that the use of a live cd. > > Some live CDs actually have in their boot menu option to boot from > existing bootable partition, especially rescue live CD such as > SystemRescueCD. Wouldn't this be even easier than the methods you > mentioned, expecially when the system does not have floppy drive? Perhaps. Depends how those live cd's manage to boot your existing system. They have to somehow detect your kernel and ramdisk and boot parameters from the existing boot loader on the HD. It could be done, I have just never seen one that did it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 17:11:40 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 17:11:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [OT] prepaid internet access in toronto: options ? Message-ID: What are my options for prepaid access ? I'm currently using a Starbucks prepaid card but I'd like something better. Opinions/flames/whatever are welcome. Getting a contract is not an option, I am temporarily here. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 17:34:26 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 21:34:26 +0400 Subject: mouse crazy In-Reply-To: <20090507092916.333ebd23.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> <4A02DE9C.7000605@gmail.com> <20090507092916.333ebd23.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4A0861A2.7000401@gmail.com> I checked again how shiny (polished) is the table, are there any hair there, etc. No, the problem is not of that kind that some dirt entered the mouse or between the table and mouse. Thats what puzzles me and thats why I wrote to this list. The mouse (both on my Linux and wife's Windows) box is usb, both optical. We used both mouses before on the same tables, no change of physical conditions around, except that I disconnected them once and connected back (may be mixing them, possibly not to the same usb slot; in any case, I can not go back to the situation that was before, when both of them on both systems, worked fine). zb. >> One computer is of my wife (Windows). It used usb mouse. Another >> computer is mine (Linux). It also uses usb mouse. >> >> On both, mouse worked great, until I touched it. >> >> I swear, I did not do anything wrong!!! >> >> I just connected mouse to another usb outlet. Connecting back to >> previous usb slot did not help. >> >> Now, the mouse pointer on any of them (Windows or Linux) behaves >> sometime in a crazy way. Not always. We still can use it. But sometime >> it wonders out, to screen borders. Without fucken clear reason. This >> makes me crazy. And my wife becomes crazy too. She threatens to divorce me. >> >> Any idea? About the mouse, not my wife, I mean. >> >> zb. >> -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 17:43:55 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 13:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] prepaid internet access in toronto: options ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 May 2009, Peter wrote: > Getting a contract is not an option, I am temporarily here. How temporary? What kind of Internet access are you looking? -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 17:49:59 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 10:49:59 -0700 Subject: [OT] prepaid internet access in toronto: options ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a97ef0905111049tbac7454o4473f59463e955de@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 10:43 AM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Mon, 11 May 2009, Peter wrote: >> >> Getting a contract is not an option, I am temporarily here. > > How temporary? What kind of Internet access are you looking? > Also, is it "roaming" internet or just home service? My home service with Teksavvy is monthly w/o any contacts. > -- > ? ____ ?____ ?____ ?____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo > ?/___ ?/___/ /___/ /___ ? ? ?http://www.arifsaha.com/ > ?____/ / ? ? / ? / ____/ > **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 18:07:47 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 14:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] prepaid internet access in toronto: options ? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0905111049tbac7454o4473f59463e955de-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0905111049tbac7454o4473f59463e955de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 May 2009, Tyler Aviss wrote: | From: Tyler Aviss | | On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 10:43 AM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo | wrote: | > On Mon, 11 May 2009, Peter wrote: | >> | >> Getting a contract is not an option, I am temporarily here. | > | > How temporary? What kind of Internet access are you looking? He didn't say it, but I think that he means 802.11g hot-spot service since that is what Starbucks offers. I hear that some Toronto Public Libraries offer this service. You'd need a library card, I imagine. http://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/spe_ser_wir.jsp They also provide wired computers but I presume that you can only run their programs (which include a web browser). The Linux Caffe might do the trick: http://linuxcaffe.ca/ | Also, is it "roaming" internet or just home service? My home service | with Teksavvy is monthly w/o any contacts. Teksavvy supports "middle-of-nowhere-BC"? I just assumed that they were regional. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gordontc-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 19:20:23 2009 From: gordontc-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Gordon Chillcott) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 15:20:23 -0400 Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> Message-ID: <1242069623.6858.1.camel@gnat.gordhome.local> I just noticed this one myself. I think that I, too will attempt to look in on this event. I find this kind of intriguing. As Colin asked - do you have any further details? Gordon On Sun, 2009-05-10 at 17:06 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > On 5/7/09, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > > > Now here's a wierd one. This came to the CLUE mailbox this morning, from > > what appears to be a PR company. > > I would be interested in sticking my nose in briefly at this, could > you send me the details. Thanks. > > I mean I have had some nice things to say about Microsoft (hardware) in print. > > Colin. > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Can PHP actually run as fast on Windows as it does on Linux? Apache? Do > > you want it to? Do you care? Garret Serack > > does. He?s a Calgary native who joined > > Microsoft two years ago as a software developer and program manager ? > > working exclusively on open source at the Microsoft Open Source Lab in > > Redmond . > > > > > > > > Garret?s current role at the lab is making PHP run faster on Windows, as > > well as working closely with the Apache teams on similar projects. He?s > > going to be in Toronto on May 12 and I thought that some of the CLUE > > members might be interested in meeting with him at for an informal > > session at Kultura Restaurant > > at 5:30pm over appetizers > > and drinks to learn more about his role at the labs. > > > > > > > > Let me know if you can attend or if you have questions. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > ------ End of Message ------- > > > > > > I've left out the contact details, but the request seems genuine. I will > > be out of town that day and I wouldn't know what to say anyway. > > > > > > Is there anyone here interested in going to this? The restaurant is at > > King and Jarvis and I'm assuming that drinks are on Microsoft. > > > > > > > > -- Evan > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 20:27:14 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 16:27:14 -0400 Subject: mouse crazy In-Reply-To: <4A0861A2.7000401-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> <4A02DE9C.7000605@gmail.com> <20090507092916.333ebd23.hgibson@eol.ca> <4A0861A2.7000401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A088A22.4020800@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > I checked again how shiny (polished) is the table, are there any hair > there, etc. > > No, the problem is not of that kind that some dirt entered the mouse > or between the table and mouse. Thats what puzzles me and thats why I > wrote to this list. > > The mouse (both on my Linux and wife's Windows) box is usb, both > optical. We used both mouses before on the same tables, no change of > physical conditions around, except that I disconnected them once and > connected back (may be mixing them, possibly not to the same usb slot; > in any case, I can not go back to the situation that was before, when > both of them on both systems, worked fine). > > zb. > On the off chance that these are wireless mice, the problem could be an indication that the batteries are dying. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 20:29:26 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 16:29:26 -0400 Subject: mouse crazy In-Reply-To: <4A088A22.4020800-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A01C1D0.8050703@tmis.ca> <4A02D4A5.1070303@rogers.com> <4A02D7C9.7020909@tmis.ca> <4A02DE9C.7000605@gmail.com> <20090507092916.333ebd23.hgibson@eol.ca> <4A0861A2.7000401@gmail.com> <4A088A22.4020800@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090511202926.GA28605@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 04:27:14PM -0400, John McGregor wrote: > On the off chance that these are wireless mice, the problem could be an > indication that the batteries are dying. Or radio interference. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 11 23:29:38 2009 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 19:29:38 -0400 Subject: SIP providers, VOIP phones, and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0905091856h5365e44dwc2a51e148388dcf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <042c01c9d290$5bf49910$13ddcb30$@com> There are many DID providers that would free DIDs for the US. If you looking for a budget SIP provider check out http://www.backsla.sh/betamax -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of D. Hugh Redelmeier Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:43 AM To: tlug Subject: Re: [TLUG]: SIP providers, VOIP phones, and Linux | From: Tyler Aviss | We've actually moved out of Toronto so some of | the cheaper VOIP providers aren't necessarily available, but I was | thinking that it might make more sense just to pick up a standalone | wifi/VOIP phone and do things myself. VoIP is a solution. It would be helpful to delineate the problem a little more. Pure VoIP doesn't care where you are as long as you have a good internet connection. Outbound calls and inbound calls are different. Do you want to handle both? To handle inbound calls, from the PSTN (Publically Switched Telephone Network), you need a DID (i.e. a phone number). DID's cost money. If you care about the area code, that may limit your choice of suppliers. For example, I wanted a Kingston DID and Unlimitel.ca stopped offering them so I got bounced as a customer. They offer them again now. You can buy a la carte service from a number of providers (choose the bits you want) for a fairly low rate, or yo can buy a bundle that approximates a regular phone. I like a la carte, but it requires more knowledge. Skype is bad in several ways. One is that it seems to require having a PC running all the time. Another is that it uses a proprietary protocol. Everyone else uses SIP + RTP. Note: privacy is questionable -- no encryption is used. As for hardware, this is a pretty good thing to get: http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014833&ci d=828.480 The PAP2T-NA has not been locked to a paritcular provider. $51 is about as cheap as a never-locked one gets. This lets you hook a normal phone up to VoIP. Actually, it supports two phones (or a two-line phone). No need to have a PC on all the time. VoIP phones are more expensive than regular phones and there is less choice of features. It is quite possible that a wireless router is all you need to enable some cell phones with 802.11g to do VoIP. But I would guess that most cell phone providers probably block this (or tie it to their service) since it is not in their interest. Asterisk is open source PBX software. Probably overkill for your use. http://taug.ca/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 12 02:35:33 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 22:35:33 -0400 Subject: [OT] prepaid internet access in toronto: options ? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0905111049tbac7454o4473f59463e955de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A08E075.80208@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > On Mon, 11 May 2009, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > | From: Tyler Aviss > | > | On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 10:43 AM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo > | wrote: > | > On Mon, 11 May 2009, Peter wrote: > | >> > | >> Getting a contract is not an option, I am temporarily here. > | > > | > How temporary? What kind of Internet access are you looking? > > He didn't say it, but I think that he means 802.11g hot-spot service > since that is what Starbucks offers. > > I hear that some Toronto Public Libraries offer this service. You'd > need a library card, I imagine. > http://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/spe_ser_wir.jsp > As does Mississauga, but a library card is required. > They also provide wired computers but I presume that you can only run > their programs (which include a web browser). > Not quite. I found the PortableApps version of OpenOffice ran fine on the library computer. You can find many apps that can be run from a pen drive at portableapps.com. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue May 12 02:38:50 2009 From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen Thornton) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 22:38:50 -0400 Subject: When trying to print in evolution, evolution shuts down and does not print? Message-ID: <1242095930.19833.4.camel@bliss.ss.org> Has anyone had this problem and if so, how did you fix it. Up until two weeks ago I had no problem printing from Evolution to either of the two printers I have. Suddenly, when I was trying to send something to either of those printers, Evolution would shut down and not print I have to restart each time. This is a major problem as I need to have hard copies of certain emails. Thanks, Maureen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 12 02:47:52 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 22:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Canada's Open Source Prowess: 28th of 75 Countries In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0905061050k41f4dd00s5e1d09f29ddf0ecd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0905061050k41f4dd00s5e1d09f29ddf0ecd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 May 2009, Scott Elcomb wrote: > According to their data, Canada has some work to do: > Overall: 28 ... > http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/3934/125/ > http://www.redhat.com/about/where-is-open-source/activity/ Canada behind Brasil, China, India, Thailand, Malaysia, and far behind USA? -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue May 12 13:32:00 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 09:32:00 -0400 Subject: When trying to print in evolution, evolution shuts down and does not print? In-Reply-To: <1242095930.19833.4.camel-Cc8bTzyuDCFg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <1242095930.19833.4.camel@bliss.ss.org> Message-ID: <20090512093200.58db5457.tleslie@tcn.net> in cases like this, running the program from shell, so you get output, is very valuable, and sometimes, there is switches (like -v -vv) to get more verbage. with evolution, there are some background tasks as well, so it might be a bit trickier. You probably launch evo from a graphic click, what you need to do is find out what binary it is running, i.e. go to properties on the item you click, to see what the actual launch program/path is to the binary. then open up a shell window (not as root but as the normal desktop user), and run the evolution command from in there. It may dump some interesting info. Also run the command (say its called evolution) with a -help or --help at end to get any info about advanced debugging. In particular, note what the shell is showing at time of crash. also you may want to see how old your evolution is, and upgrade, this may not fix it, but never hurts to upgrade , if your copy is ancient. in some cases interesting info is dumped to the systems error log, type dmesg in a shell to see at that time if there is a issue of something complaining, also tail -40 /var/log/messages as a work around, or as other experimenting, can you print to a pdf/ps file? and when you do does it crash? if not, then go into another app, say evince and look at pdf and then print it. also, does every attempt to print fail (from any app), or just some, or just evo? you might want to save email as a text, and print it in OO-word for now until this issue is sorted out. -tl On Mon, 11 May 2009 22:38:50 -0400 Maureen Thornton wrote: > Has anyone had this problem and if so, how did you fix it. > > Up until two weeks ago I had no problem printing from Evolution to > either of the two printers I have. Suddenly, when I was trying to send > something to either of those printers, Evolution would shut down and not > print I have to restart each time. This is a major problem as I need to > have hard copies of certain emails. > Thanks, Maureen > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 12 15:16:40 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:16:40 -0400 Subject: [OT] prepaid internet access in toronto: options ? In-Reply-To: <4A08E075.80208-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0905111049tbac7454o4473f59463e955de@mail.gmail.com> <4A08E075.80208@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280905120816va941280wa16b883d6957501a@mail.gmail.com> 2009/5/11 James Knott : > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> On Mon, 11 May 2009, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> | From: Tyler Aviss >> | >> | On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 10:43 AM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo >> | wrote: >> | > On Mon, 11 May 2009, Peter wrote: >> | >> >> | >> Getting a contract is not an option, I am temporarily here. >> | > >> | > How temporary? What kind of Internet access are you looking? >> >> He didn't say it, but I think that he means 802.11g hot-spot service >> since that is what Starbucks offers. >> >> I hear that some Toronto Public Libraries offer this service. ?You'd >> need a library card, I imagine. >> ? http://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/spe_ser_wir.jsp >> > As does Mississauga, but a library card is required. >> They also provide wired computers but I presume that you can only run >> their programs (which include a web browser). >> > Not quite. ?I found the PortableApps version of OpenOffice ran fine on > the library computer. ?You can find many apps that can be run from a pen > drive at portableapps.com. I'm guessing you mean Mississauga, because my experience with TPL public computers is that they're locked down so you can't run any applications from removable media - and you can't run downloads either. They do however offer free wifi - branch list here: http://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/spe_ser_wir.jsp . You have to agree to their terms of service, but you don't need a library card. All branches have public computers, although they are sometimes in heavy demand, mid-afternoon to early evening tends to be worst. Some libraries have "express" computers that are available without a library card, but the majority of these ones log you out after 15 minutes (ie. not meant for long-term use). The public computers also tend to max out at one hour use (unless the library has lots of computers and few patrons). I'm staff at TPL, but this is not written in any official capacity! -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue May 12 16:13:52 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 12:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: <4A047FF1.6000704-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> <24E9C4D3-B642-4E97-8C00-827C16E93103@mylesbraithwaite.com> <4A0442A7.30804@telly.org> <4A047FF1.6000704@telly.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 May 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Actually, I just got off the phone with his co-ordinator, who says he > will probably show up at the Grad Pub at about 9 and buy drinks for any > TLUGgers who don't swear at him. (Though I'm not totally sure of that > last part.) So you mean he might buy drinks for people who do swear at him? :) Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 12 20:19:57 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 16:19:57 -0400 Subject: [OT] prepaid internet access in toronto: options ? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280905120816va941280wa16b883d6957501a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0905111049tbac7454o4473f59463e955de@mail.gmail.com> <4A08E075.80208@rogers.com> <1f13df280905120816va941280wa16b883d6957501a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A09D9ED.6030908@rogers.com> Giles Orr wrote: > 2009/5/11 James Knott : > >> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 11 May 2009, Tyler Aviss wrote: >>> >>> | From: Tyler Aviss >>> | >>> | On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 10:43 AM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo >>> | wrote: >>> | > On Mon, 11 May 2009, Peter wrote: >>> | >> >>> | >> Getting a contract is not an option, I am temporarily here. >>> | > >>> | > How temporary? What kind of Internet access are you looking? >>> >>> He didn't say it, but I think that he means 802.11g hot-spot service >>> since that is what Starbucks offers. >>> >>> I hear that some Toronto Public Libraries offer this service. You'd >>> need a library card, I imagine. >>> http://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/spe_ser_wir.jsp >>> >>> >> As does Mississauga, but a library card is required. >> >>> They also provide wired computers but I presume that you can only run >>> their programs (which include a web browser). >>> >>> >> Not quite. I found the PortableApps version of OpenOffice ran fine on >> the library computer. You can find many apps that can be run from a pen >> drive at portableapps.com. >> > > I'm guessing you mean Mississauga, because my experience with TPL > public computers is that they're locked down so you can't run any > applications from removable media - and you can't run downloads > either. > Yes, I'm referring to Mississauga. > They do however offer free wifi - branch list here: > http://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/spe_ser_wir.jsp . You have to > agree to their terms of service, but you don't need a library card. > All branches have public computers, although they are sometimes in > heavy demand, mid-afternoon to early evening tends to be worst. Some > libraries have "express" computers that are available without a > library card, but the majority of these ones log you out after 15 > minutes (ie. not meant for long-term use). The public computers also > tend to max out at one hour use (unless the library has lots of > computers and few patrons). > > I'm staff at TPL, but this is not written in any official capacity! > > -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 12 22:15:06 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 22:15:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [OT] prepaid internet access in toronto: options ? References: Message-ID: Thanks for the tips guys. As others have deduced I prefer wireless access. I am still on Starbucks. I have checked out the other options and f.ex. 2nd cup does not work with a card, one needs a cc. I will try a generic cc from shoppers drug mart with that. If someone knows that that does not work (generic cc on 2nd cup wifi access point) please say so, it would save me $50 in generic cc cost. Linuxcaffe is an option but it is way out of my normal circuit so I can use it only infrequently. The culprit for the present situation is a major phone and internet provider who promised me that the changes I made to a phone line subscription will NOT change or move the internet access. Yet they did. And now they want $100 to reinstate the service (I told them to get the recording of the conversation with the attendant but they declined and tried to prove that it is my fault. riiight). The best solution so far looks like cc with rogers and 2nd cup which is $35/mo. I do not know if there are also other limitations. If there are, say so. Also what's the deal with free public internet access ? I have a weak signal and cannot connect properly, I'd like to know more before I dig deeper. tia, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 12 22:18:13 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 22:18:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> Message-ID: Aren't you afraid of date rape knockout drops in the drinks ? :) Seriously, I am shocked to read about the debate on whether to move a Linux event to make room for m$ free drinks. Just how badly do you need the drinks ?! Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 12 22:31:22 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 22:31:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: how to pay someone into debt Message-ID: Muahaha. Pigopolists bitten by their own extrotion level 'cashing' fees. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/12/pirate_bay_ddos_ploy/ Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 12 23:53:18 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 23:53:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [OT] prepaid internet access in toronto: options ? References: Message-ID: Ok, the TPL solution is good, I can sit and work in the library (directly next to the computer books shelves ... arrg ... musst resist wasting time ...) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 13 11:10:54 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 07:10:54 -0400 Subject: [OT] prepaid internet access in toronto: options ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A0AAABE.90401@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > The best solution so far looks like cc with rogers and 2nd cup which is $35/mo. > I do not know if there are also other limitations. If there are, say so. > > Toronto Hydro put in some WiFi around the city, though I believe they've since sold it. IIRC, the rates were cheaper than Rogers. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 13 15:28:19 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:28:19 -0400 Subject: [OT] Need to Cap Network Bandwidth for a Computer Message-ID: <4A0AE713.1060601@rogers.com> On a computer on my home network, an Internet game seems to try and use all the bandwidth it can get. Is there a way to limit the bandwidth for the one computer without touching that computer? I checked my router and there seems to be no options for that. Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 13 15:29:27 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:29:27 -0400 Subject: [OT] Need to Cap Network Bandwidth for a Computer Message-ID: <4A0AE757.70707@rogers.com> On a computer on my home network, an Internet game seems to try and use all the bandwidth it can get. Is there a way to limit the bandwidth for the one computer without touching that computer? I checked my router and there seems to be no options for that. Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 13 15:35:03 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:35:03 -0400 Subject: [OT] Need to Cap Network Bandwidth for a Computer In-Reply-To: <4A0AE757.70707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A0AE757.70707@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A0AE8A7.10004@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > On a computer on my home network, an Internet game seems to try and > use all the bandwidth it can get. > > Is there a way to limit the bandwidth for the one computer without > touching that computer? > > I checked my router and there seems to be no options for that. > Consumer grade devices wouldn't have that capability. Business grade switches & routers would have quality of service settings that would do that sort of thing. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 13 15:35:29 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:35:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] Need to Cap Network Bandwidth for a Computer In-Reply-To: <4A0AE757.70707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A0AE757.70707@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 May 2009, Stephen wrote: > Is there a way to limit the bandwidth for the one computer > without touching that computer? I guess it need to be done on the router. > I checked my router and there seems to be no options for that. Anyway to upgrade that router's firmware? If not, maybe replace that router with a old machine running linux as router? -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 13 17:21:37 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:21:37 -0400 Subject: [OT] Need to Cap Network Bandwidth for a Computer In-Reply-To: <4A0AE8A7.10004-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A0AE757.70707@rogers.com> <4A0AE8A7.10004@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090513132137.7b04866e@teksavvy.com> James Knott wrote: > Stephen wrote: > > On a computer on my home network, an Internet game seems to try and > > use all the bandwidth it can get. > > > > Is there a way to limit the bandwidth for the one computer without > > touching that computer? > > > > I checked my router and there seems to be no options for that. > > > > Consumer grade devices wouldn't have that capability. Business grade > switches & routers would have quality of service settings that would do > that sort of thing. The Tomato firmware for Linksys routers has qos settings. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 13 19:51:44 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 15:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: <4A047FF1.6000704-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> <24E9C4D3-B642-4E97-8C00-827C16E93103@mylesbraithwaite.com> <4A0442A7.30804@telly.org> <4A047FF1.6000704@telly.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 May 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I just got off the phone with his co-ordinator, who says he > will probably show up at the Grad Pub at about 9 and buy > drinks for any TLUGgers who don't swear at him. (Though I'm > not totally sure of that last part.) Anything interesting happened? -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed May 13 20:03:12 2009 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 16:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> <24E9C4D3-B642-4E97-8C00-827C16E93103@mylesbraithwaite.com> <4A0442A7.30804@telly.org> <4A047FF1.6000704@telly.org> Message-ID: <11413.99.253.254.243.1242244992.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> No show, we had to buy our own drinks. Probably just as well ;). > On Fri, 8 May 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> I just got off the phone with his co-ordinator, who says he >> will probably show up at the Grad Pub at about 9 and buy >> drinks for any TLUGgers who don't swear at him. (Though I'm >> not totally sure of that last part.) > > Anything interesting happened? > > -- > ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo > /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ > ____/ / / / ____/ > **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 13 20:36:46 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 16:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: <11413.99.253.254.243.1242244992.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> <24E9C4D3-B642-4E97-8C00-827C16E93103@mylesbraithwaite.com> <4A0442A7.30804@telly.org> <4A047FF1.6000704@telly.org> <11413.99.253.254.243.1242244992.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 May 2009, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > No show, we had to buy our own drinks. Probably just as well > ;). Yeah, sounds like Microsoft. :-) -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 13 22:17:33 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:17:33 -0400 Subject: Defeating Bell's 'Traffic Management' In-Reply-To: <20090422133625.5c1ad73c-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090422133625.5c1ad73c@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <4A0B46FD.6030208@teksavvy.com> JoeHill wrote: > I had assumed that using this MLPPP was only for people with 2 or more DSL > lines, but someone at work tipped me off that he had gotten around it with just > one, using the Tomato/MLPPP firmware for his Linksys router. If you're using > the WRT54G or GL/GS, this firmware works great and was a breeze to set up. > > Start here: > > http://fixppp.org > > For me it was like this: > > 1. Reset router to factory. > > 2. Upload firmware file for my router. > > 3. Log in using 'admin' for user and pass. > > 4. Configure router. > > I like the new interface a lot better, even without the joy of screwing > with Bell. :-) > > One thing I could not find was a good explanation on exactly how this defeats > throttling... > Any improvement? Do you recommend this? I don't know how this works. Sure would like an explanation and some data, if available :-) Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed May 13 22:28:05 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:28:05 -0400 Subject: Defeating Bell's 'Traffic Management' In-Reply-To: <4A0B46FD.6030208-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090422133625.5c1ad73c@teksavvy.com> <4A0B46FD.6030208@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Meng Cheah wrote: > JoeHill wrote: >> >> I had assumed that using this MLPPP was only for people with 2 or more DSL >> lines, but someone at work tipped me off that he had gotten around it with >> just >> one, using the Tomato/MLPPP firmware for his Linksys router. If you're >> using >> the WRT54G or GL/GS, this firmware works great and was a breeze to set up. >> >> Start here: >> >> http://fixppp.org >> >> For me it was like this: >> >> 1. Reset router to factory. >> >> 2. Upload firmware file for my router. >> >> 3. Log in using 'admin' for user and pass. >> >> 4. Configure router. >> >> I like the new interface a lot better, even without the joy of screwing >> with Bell. ?:-) >> >> One thing I could not find was a good explanation on exactly how this >> defeats >> throttling... >> > > Any improvement? Yes, definitely. If I've got a lot of seeds, then the download is always fast, no matter what time of day. > Do you recommend this? Yes, even without defeating the throttling, the Tomato firmware is an improvement. > I don't know how this works. > Sure would like an explanation and some data, if available :-) That I do not have. I am curious myself as to exactly how it works. My limited understanding is that Multilink splits your data into two streams, and since Bell can only inspect one stream at a time, they cannot tell what's going on with either one. B. (aka Joe) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 13 22:35:05 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:35:05 -0400 Subject: Defeating Bell's 'Traffic Management' In-Reply-To: References: <20090422133625.5c1ad73c@teksavvy.com> <4A0B46FD.6030208@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <4A0B4B19.8070909@teksavvy.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Meng Cheah wrote: > >> JoeHill wrote: >> >>> I had assumed that using this MLPPP was only for people with 2 or more DSL >>> lines, but someone at work tipped me off that he had gotten around it with >>> just >>> one, using the Tomato/MLPPP firmware for his Linksys router. If you're >>> using >>> the WRT54G or GL/GS, this firmware works great and was a breeze to set up. >>> >>> Start here: >>> >>> http://fixppp.org >>> >>> For me it was like this: >>> >>> 1. Reset router to factory. >>> >>> 2. Upload firmware file for my router. >>> >>> 3. Log in using 'admin' for user and pass. >>> >>> 4. Configure router. >>> >>> I like the new interface a lot better, even without the joy of screwing >>> with Bell. :-) >>> >>> One thing I could not find was a good explanation on exactly how this >>> defeats >>> throttling... >>> >>> >> Any improvement? >> > > Yes, definitely. If I've got a lot of seeds, then the download is > always fast, no matter what time of day. > > >> Do you recommend this? >> > > Yes, even without defeating the throttling, the Tomato firmware is an > improvement. > > >> I don't know how this works. >> Sure would like an explanation and some data, if available :-) >> > > That I do not have. I am curious myself as to exactly how it works. My > limited understanding is that Multilink splits your data into two > streams, and since Bell can only inspect one stream at a time, they > cannot tell what's going on with either one. > > > B. (aka Joe) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > That was quick :-) Thanks. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed May 13 22:50:39 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:50:39 -0400 Subject: Defeating Bell's 'Traffic Management' In-Reply-To: <4A0B4B19.8070909-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090422133625.5c1ad73c@teksavvy.com> <4A0B46FD.6030208@teksavvy.com> <4A0B4B19.8070909@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Meng Cheah wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Meng Cheah wrote: >> >>> >>> JoeHill wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I had assumed that using this MLPPP was only for people with 2 or more >>>> DSL >>>> lines, but someone at work tipped me off that he had gotten around it >>>> with >>>> just >>>> one, using the Tomato/MLPPP firmware for his Linksys router. If you're >>>> using >>>> the WRT54G or GL/GS, this firmware works great and was a breeze to set >>>> up. >>>> >>>> Start here: >>>> >>>> http://fixppp.org >>>> >>>> For me it was like this: >>>> >>>> 1. Reset router to factory. >>>> >>>> 2. Upload firmware file for my router. >>>> >>>> 3. Log in using 'admin' for user and pass. >>>> >>>> 4. Configure router. >>>> >>>> I like the new interface a lot better, even without the joy of screwing >>>> with Bell. ?:-) >>>> >>>> One thing I could not find was a good explanation on exactly how this >>>> defeats >>>> throttling... >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Any improvement? >>> >> >> Yes, definitely. If I've got a lot of seeds, then the download is >> always fast, no matter what time of day. >> >> >>> >>> Do you recommend this? >>> >> >> Yes, even without defeating the throttling, the Tomato firmware is an >> improvement. >> >> >>> >>> I don't know how this works. >>> Sure would like an explanation and some data, if available :-) >>> >> >> That I do not have. I am curious myself as to exactly how it works. My >> limited understanding is that Multilink splits your data into two >> streams, and since Bell can only inspect one stream at a time, they >> cannot tell what's going on with either one. >> >> >> B. (aka Joe) >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > > That was quick :-) > I've got nothing else to do, I'm at work :-))) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Thu May 14 09:01:36 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 05:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? Message-ID: i'm currently waxing philosophical on the openwrt users mailing list, bitching about the fact that there's no simple list of commercially available routers that just plain *work* with a 2.6-based build of openwrt. and by "work," i mean out of the box, install openwrt and wireless magically comes up and works properly and you're off to the races. there always appear to be some caveats: * a linksys wrt54gl is great, as long as you run a 2.4 kernel to get wireless * another router might have working wireless but it's not stable, which i interpret as "not working". * another router will work fine as long as you replace the broadcom wireless card with an atheros * the router comes with USB ports, but USB support isn't quite there and so on, and so on. which inspires a simple question -- can anyone here point to an off-the-shelf router on which you can install openwrt that just ***works***? ideally, i'd like: * a router that takes the latest 2.6 version of openwrt -- i have no interest in regressing to 2.4 to get working wireless, as you need to do on the wrt54gl * has at least one USB 2.0 port that works there's supposed to be a new release -- 8.09.1 -- out tomorrow and that might solve a bunch of issues but has anyone on this list found a router that works? thanks. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 14 15:53:04 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:53:04 -0400 Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> 2009/5/14 Robert P. J. Day : > ?i'm currently waxing philosophical on the openwrt users mailing > list, bitching about the fact that there's no simple list of > commercially available routers that just plain *work* with a 2.6-based > build of openwrt. ?and by "work," i mean out of the box, install > openwrt and wireless magically comes up and works properly and you're > off to the races. > > ?there always appear to be some caveats: > > ?* a linksys wrt54gl is great, as long as you run a 2.4 kernel to > ? ?get wireless > > ?* another router might have working wireless but it's not stable, > ? ?which i interpret as "not working". > > ?* another router will work fine as long as you replace the broadcom > ? ?wireless card with an atheros > > ?* the router comes with USB ports, but USB support isn't quite there > > and so on, and so on. ?which inspires a simple question -- can anyone > here point to an off-the-shelf router on which you can install openwrt > that just ***works***? ?ideally, i'd like: > > ?* a router that takes the latest 2.6 version of openwrt -- i have no > ? ?interest in regressing to 2.4 to get working wireless, as you need > ? ?to do on the wrt54gl > > ?* has at least one USB 2.0 port that works > > there's supposed to be a new release -- 8.09.1 -- out tomorrow and > that might solve a bunch of issues but has anyone on this list found a > router that works? ?thanks. What I've read suggests that making the list you want is extremely difficult because manufacturers quietly and sometimes frequently change the chips in their routers - often without bothering to change the router name or even part or version number. Thus we have lists that say things like "Bonehead wireless router X5 (with red faceplate)" because the faceplate is actually the easiest way to distinguish the chipset! Yes, it's a pain in the ass to navigate the lists. Remember that you're intentionally bypassing the manufacturer's intentions, and usually voiding the warranty. Let me re-state: they don't want you to do this, and do not feel compelled to make it easy. All that said, I'm with you: I wish that list existed. :-) -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 14 16:10:38 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:10:38 -0400 Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A0C427E.3030507@utoronto.ca> On 5/14/09 11:53 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > 2009/5/14 Robert P. J. Day: >> i'm currently waxing philosophical on the openwrt users mailing >> list, bitching about the fact that there's no simple list of >> commercially available routers that just plain *work* with a 2.6-based >> build of openwrt. and by "work," i mean out of the box, install >> openwrt and wireless magically comes up and works properly and you're >> off to the races. >> >> there always appear to be some caveats: >> >> * a linksys wrt54gl is great, as long as you run a 2.4 kernel to >> get wireless >> >> * another router might have working wireless but it's not stable, >> which i interpret as "not working". >> >> * another router will work fine as long as you replace the broadcom >> wireless card with an atheros >> >> * the router comes with USB ports, but USB support isn't quite there >> >> and so on, and so on. which inspires a simple question -- can anyone >> here point to an off-the-shelf router on which you can install openwrt >> that just ***works***? ideally, i'd like: >> >> * a router that takes the latest 2.6 version of openwrt -- i have no >> interest in regressing to 2.4 to get working wireless, as you need >> to do on the wrt54gl >> >> * has at least one USB 2.0 port that works >> >> there's supposed to be a new release -- 8.09.1 -- out tomorrow and >> that might solve a bunch of issues but has anyone on this list found a >> router that works? thanks. > > What I've read suggests that making the list you want is extremely > difficult because manufacturers quietly and sometimes frequently > change the chips in their routers - often without bothering to change > the router name or even part or version number. Thus we have lists > that say things like "Bonehead wireless router X5 (with red > faceplate)" because the faceplate is actually the easiest way to > distinguish the chipset! > > Yes, it's a pain in the ass to navigate the lists. Remember that > you're intentionally bypassing the manufacturer's intentions, and > usually voiding the warranty. Let me re-state: they don't want you to > do this, and do not feel compelled to make it easy. > > All that said, I'm with you: I wish that list existed. :-) > Why does it have to be OpenWRT? DD-WRT have a great list of compatible hardware: http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Supported_Devices The ASUS WL500x routers with USB are supposed to be quite good. I use fixmlppp on my wrt54gl, it is based on Tomato, which is itself another good firmware. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Thu May 14 17:35:28 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 May 2009, Giles Orr wrote: > What I've read suggests that making the list you want is extremely > difficult because manufacturers quietly and sometimes frequently > change the chips in their routers - often without bothering to > change the router name or even part or version number. Thus we have > lists that say things like "Bonehead wireless router X5 (with red > faceplate)" because the faceplate is actually the easiest way to > distinguish the chipset! > > Yes, it's a pain in the ass to navigate the lists. Remember that > you're intentionally bypassing the manufacturer's intentions, and > usually voiding the warranty. Let me re-state: they don't want you > to do this, and do not feel compelled to make it easy. > > All that said, I'm with you: I wish that list existed. :-) yes, all of the above is correct. still, i can't imagine that it would be that hard to have, say, a "top 5" list of routers for openwrt. people make lists all the time, why not a short list of routers that have proven themselves to work with openwrt? and if something suddenly changes, i suspect that that would be noticed in short order and the list could be modified. it really is frustrating since there's all this information out there, but there's no single place you can go to answer the question, "what router would you recommend?" and i think that's a major failing at the moment. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu May 14 18:02:33 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:02:33 -0400 Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? In-Reply-To: <4A0C427E.3030507-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> <4A0C427E.3030507@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4A0C5CB9.4090602@teksavvy.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Why does it have to be OpenWRT? DD-WRT have a great list of compatible > hardware: http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Supported_Devices The > ASUS WL500x routers with USB are supposed to be quite good. > > I use fixmlppp on my wrt54gl, it is based on Tomato, which is itself > another good firmware. Do you mean Tomato/MLPPP from http://fixppp.org? Are you using a single link or multiple? I'm thinking of playing around with it :-) Thanks. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 14 20:00:19 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:00:19 -0400 Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090514200019.GD21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 05:01:36AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > i'm currently waxing philosophical on the openwrt users mailing > list, bitching about the fact that there's no simple list of > commercially available routers that just plain *work* with a 2.6-based > build of openwrt. and by "work," i mean out of the box, install > openwrt and wireless magically comes up and works properly and you're > off to the races. > > there always appear to be some caveats: > > * a linksys wrt54gl is great, as long as you run a 2.4 kernel to > get wireless > > * another router might have working wireless but it's not stable, > which i interpret as "not working". > > * another router will work fine as long as you replace the broadcom > wireless card with an atheros Very rare to do these days do to integrated single chip designs. > * the router comes with USB ports, but USB support isn't quite there > > and so on, and so on. which inspires a simple question -- can anyone > here point to an off-the-shelf router on which you can install openwrt > that just ***works***? ideally, i'd like: > > * a router that takes the latest 2.6 version of openwrt -- i have no > interest in regressing to 2.4 to get working wireless, as you need > to do on the wrt54gl > > * has at least one USB 2.0 port that works > > there's supposed to be a new release -- 8.09.1 -- out tomorrow and > that might solve a bunch of issues but has anyone on this list found a > router that works? thanks. Given the majority of the routers made commercially these days use broadcom chips, and these days to save cost they are usually single chip, which means cpu, wireless, switch, etc all in one chip. Unfortunately those broadcom wifi designs have no open specs (damn broadcom) and hence only work with the binary driver which so far exists only for 2.4 kernels it seems. So as a result it would be very hard to find hardware that would work with 2.6 kernels since it would involve a company choosing to use a more expensive design with multiple chips. Who is going to do that? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 14 20:29:53 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:29:53 -0400 Subject: Compile 2.6.x kernel on Centos 4.7 Message-ID: <4A0C7F41.6060400@alteeve.com> Hi all, I'm familiar with building kernels on Debian systems, but not so much on Redhat systems. I've for an Intel DQ45EK which has a NIC that needs an updated e1000e driver. Apparently this means I need a 2.6.28+ kernel. I know I can try compiling a driver, but I've failed at that, too. So for now I am looking at compiling the kernel. Anyway, on Debian I do: apt-get install build-essential kernel-package # Copy the linux source to the local directory tar -xvjf ./linux-2.6.29.2.tar.bz2 cd linux-2.6.29.2 make oldconfig # Select all the default prompt options. vim .config # Change 'E1000E' to 'Y' . make-kpkg clean make-kpkg --revision=mk.1.0 kernel_image --initrd dpkg -i ../linux-image-2.6.29.2_mk.1.0_amd64.deb Short and sweet. How hard would it be for someone to provide an equally short and sweet instruction for running off an RPM under CentOS? I'm installing from the DVD, but I can't even do a simple: yum groupinstall "Development Tools" Because I don't have a net connect and it doesn't seem to care to look at the optical drive. Any help is appreciated! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 15 12:57:41 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 08:57:41 -0400 Subject: Backups - why you should Message-ID: <1f13df280905150557q1f853dd3q2b0204deb6f56f16@mail.gmail.com> Three days after Robert Brockway's talk about backups, Slashdot posts a high profile story about hackers taking down a site - and completely destroying it because the site owners didn't have off-line backups. Off-site would have been good, but in this case even off-line would have saved them: http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/15/0138204 -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 15 14:04:39 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Compile 2.6.x kernel on Centos 4.7 In-Reply-To: <4A0C7F41.6060400-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A0C7F41.6060400@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 May 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > I'm installing from the DVD, but I can't even do a simple: > yum groupinstall "Development Tools" > Because I don't have a net connect and it doesn't seem to > care to look at the optical drive. AFAIK by default any local / removable drives are not included in repository search, either the repo entry not exist or not enabled. I don't have a CentOS installation to confirm, but this post claim that you can just enable it: http://atmail.com/kb/2007/using-yum-without-network-access-cd-only/ In case it did not work, you may have to add a repo entry for the CD/ DVD location under /etc/yum.repos.d/, some instruction here: http://www.centos.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=thread&topic_id=8717&post_id=27701 Now on the compiling kernel, if you just need vanilla kernel, there a instruction here: http://www.howtoforge.com/kernel_compilation_centos additionally, there is another one for Fedora, which similar, but give instruction on how to deal with patches: http://www.howtoforge.com/kernel_compilation_fedora Note that unless you are going to do this as root, you probably need to setup permissions of directories under /usr/src/redhat/* to be accessible from the uid you use; alternatively, you may want to move the build directory somewhere else, as written here: http://www.owlriver.com/tips/non-root/ I believe the process can be summarized as so: 1. prepare the development environment. 2. get the kernel source 3. configure kernel 4. "make rpm" 5. install rpm To compile a CentOS-flavour kernel, a more elaborate instructions are here: http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/Custom_Kernel - plus other related documentation: http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos#head-c4dbf9ecb355694c78175c7eaad46a2472a3849b -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 15 18:23:07 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:23:07 -0400 Subject: off topic, yet on In-Reply-To: <4A01BC39.80102-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A0173A8.2060908@rogers.com> <4A01BC39.80102@telly.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0905151123n41c4e818q1a908e302d4dfe33@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > And I think it's also important to note that the increasing irrelevancy > of the desktop OS also has implications for Linux. By the time the Linux > desktop becomes fully ready for mainstream acceptance, the desktop OS > may not matter. I predict that the most popular Linux client OS will be > Android, which will eventually out deploy all conventional distributions > combined. It's only a matter of time before we start seeing > Android-based netbooks and then watch out... Just came across the Twittch comic and couldn't resist. http://twittch.com/4/ =) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 15 18:43:48 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:43:48 -0400 Subject: Possible future talk; interest? In-Reply-To: <4A04D20E.2040709-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> I think its a great idea, I'd be interested in OO and modules in perl as well as php. Does anyone else think so? On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > I guess not, lol. I'll go back to thinking on other topics. :) > > Madi > > Madison Kelly wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> ?I saw an article this morning about how there isn't all that much in the >> way of "intermittent" level papers, talks and such on most programming >> languages. I'm not sure how true this is, but it got me thinking about a >> possible future talk for TLUG. I've been trying to think of a topic since I >> was asked to present again a month or two ago, so perhaps this fits? >> >> ?So then, would there be any interest in an intermittent talk about Perl? >> I was thinking along the lines of "Introduction to Writing Perl Modules", >> "Introduction to Object Oriented Perl" or something similar/variation >> of/combination of. >> >> ?I make no claim to be an expert in either of these fields, or in Perl >> itself, but I do feel confident enough in them to introduce the topics to >> people who may have an otherwise softer exposure to Perl. >> >> ?If so, I'd be ready later in the summer. If not, I will continue to think >> on another topic. :) >> >> Madi > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri May 15 18:47:41 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backups - why you should In-Reply-To: <1f13df280905150557q1f853dd3q2b0204deb6f56f16-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280905150557q1f853dd3q2b0204deb6f56f16@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 May 2009, Giles Orr wrote: > Three days after Robert Brockway's talk about backups, Slashdot posts > a high profile story about hackers taking down a site - and completely > destroying it because the site owners didn't have off-line backups. > Off-site would have been good, but in this case even off-line would > have saved them: > > http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/15/0138204 Hi Giles. Thanks for the link. Interesting comment from one guy about how he backed up a server his employer told him not to, and saved the day when people were using it for storage. Remember the slide about disks normally having more useful data than we think ;) This morning I remembered an important point about backups that I forgot to put in my talk. This is a good time to mention it :) I'll be adding it to the slides. I often hear comments about how Mr Smith or Mrs Jones couldn't be expected to keep good backups as they know nothing about technology. News Flash: "Backups have nothing to do with technology". We use modern technology to do the backups for our systems based on modern technology, but that is because it makes sense to do that. In reality, backups are as old as language. Medieval European monks used to spend a good deal of their lives hand copying important texts. This allowed for the disemination of information but it also allowed for retention (backup) of the information in the case of a disaster. The monks were fully aware of this. If a monastery burned down the surrounding monasteries would make copies of their texts in order to repopulate the library that was lost. This was a form of enlightened self interest as the next monastery to be lost might have been theirs. It is largely thanks to the disciplined backup procedures of these monks that so many texts survive to the modern day. Even memorising an oral tradition is a form of backup. Before the invention of writing it was the only option if information was to survive beyond a single human lifespan. Naturally this format has reliability problems but then so do so many modern formats ;) Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevjmorris-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 15 18:50:12 2009 From: kevjmorris-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Kevin Morris) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:50:12 -0400 Subject: Possible future talk; interest? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I will be very interested too, count me in! Cheers Kevin > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:43:48 -0400 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Possible future talk; interest? > From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > I think its a great idea, I'd be interested in OO and modules in perl > as well as php. > > Does anyone else think so? > > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > > I guess not, lol. I'll go back to thinking on other topics. :) > > > > Madi > > > > Madison Kelly wrote: > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I saw an article this morning about how there isn't all that much in the > >> way of "intermittent" level papers, talks and such on most programming > >> languages. I'm not sure how true this is, but it got me thinking about a > >> possible future talk for TLUG. I've been trying to think of a topic since I > >> was asked to present again a month or two ago, so perhaps this fits? > >> > >> So then, would there be any interest in an intermittent talk about Perl? > >> I was thinking along the lines of "Introduction to Writing Perl Modules", > >> "Introduction to Object Oriented Perl" or something similar/variation > >> of/combination of. > >> > >> I make no claim to be an expert in either of these fields, or in Perl > >> itself, but I do feel confident enough in them to introduce the topics to > >> people who may have an otherwise softer exposure to Perl. > >> > >> If so, I'd be ready later in the summer. If not, I will continue to think > >> on another topic. :) > >> > >> Madi > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > -- > > > > Dave Germiquet > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 15 19:53:50 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:53:50 -0400 Subject: Possible future talk; interest? In-Reply-To: References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> Talks at TLUG meetings tend to be "intermittent" because of all the hecklers. ;-) Kevin Morris wrote: > I will be very interested too, count me in! > > Cheers > Kevin > > > Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:43:48 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Possible future talk; interest? > > From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > > I think its a great idea, I'd be interested in OO and modules in perl > > as well as php. > > > > Does anyone else think so? > > > > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > > > I guess not, lol. I'll go back to thinking on other topics. :) > > > > > > Madi > > > > > > Madison Kelly wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi all, > > >> > > >> I saw an article this morning about how there isn't all that > much in the > > >> way of "intermittent" level papers, talks and such on most > programming > > >> languages. I'm not sure how true this is, but it got me thinking > about a > > >> possible future talk for TLUG. I've been trying to think of a > topic since I > > >> was asked to present again a month or two ago, so perhaps this fits? > > >> > > >> So then, would there be any interest in an intermittent talk > about Perl? > > >> I was thinking along the lines of "Introduction to Writing Perl > Modules", > > >> "Introduction to Object Oriented Perl" or something similar/variation > > >> of/combination of. > > >> > > >> I make no claim to be an expert in either of these fields, or in > Perl > > >> itself, but I do feel confident enough in them to introduce the > topics to > > >> people who may have an otherwise softer exposure to Perl. > > >> > > >> If so, I'd be ready later in the summer. If not, I will continue > to think > > >> on another topic. :) > > >> > > >> Madi > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Dave Germiquet > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. > -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri May 15 21:53:18 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 17:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Backups - why you should In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280905150557q1f853dd3q2b0204deb6f56f16@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Another quick comment :) There was a famous quote from Linus Torvalds about backups that I wanted to put in the talk. I couldn't find it when I looked. Well it just turned up in the /. thread... :) "Only wimps use tape backup: _real_ men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)" Linus Torvalds Jul 20 1996, 3:00 am Rob On Fri, 15 May 2009, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Fri, 15 May 2009, Giles Orr wrote: > >> Three days after Robert Brockway's talk about backups, Slashdot posts >> a high profile story about hackers taking down a site - and completely >> destroying it because the site owners didn't have off-line backups. >> Off-site would have been good, but in this case even off-line would >> have saved them: >> >> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/15/0138204 > > Hi Giles. Thanks for the link. Interesting comment from one guy about how > he backed up a server his employer told him not to, and saved the day when > people were using it for storage. Remember the slide about disks normally > having more useful data than we think ;) > > This morning I remembered an important point about backups that I forgot to > put in my talk. This is a good time to mention it :) I'll be adding it to > the slides. > > I often hear comments about how Mr Smith or Mrs Jones couldn't be expected to > keep good backups as they know nothing about technology. > > News Flash: "Backups have nothing to do with technology". > > We use modern technology to do the backups for our systems based on modern > technology, but that is because it makes sense to do that. > > In reality, backups are as old as language. > > Medieval European monks used to spend a good deal of their lives hand copying > important texts. This allowed for the disemination of information but it > also allowed for retention (backup) of the information in the case of a > disaster. The monks were fully aware of this. If a monastery burned down > the surrounding monasteries would make copies of their texts in order to > repopulate the library that was lost. This was a form of enlightened self > interest as the next monastery to be lost might have been theirs. > > It is largely thanks to the disciplined backup procedures of these monks that > so many texts survive to the modern day. > > Even memorising an oral tradition is a form of backup. Before the invention > of writing it was the only option if information was to survive beyond a > single human lifespan. Naturally this format has reliability problems but > then so do so many modern formats ;) > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri May 15 22:35:11 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 18:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Slides from May talk now available Message-ID: http://www.timetraveller.org/talks/backup_talk.pdf Some small additions and corrections are planned as I'll use the slides again one day. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 15 22:55:37 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 18:55:37 -0400 Subject: Slides from May talk now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A0DF2E9.3050101@teksavvy.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > http://www.timetraveller.org/talks/backup_talk.pdf > > Some small additions and corrections are planned as I'll use the > slides again one day. > > Rob > Thank you :-) Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 14:46:07 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 10:46:07 -0400 Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <4A0DC84E.5080907-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 15:53 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Talks at TLUG meetings tend to be "intermittent" because of all the > hecklers. ;-) Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 14:56:20 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 14:56:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? References: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > What I've read suggests that making the list you want is extremely > difficult because manufacturers quietly and sometimes frequently > change the chips in their routers - often without bothering to change > the router name or even part or version number. Thus we have lists Correct, but that should be illegal because the FCC or equivalent RFI compliance ID applies to the initial revision only and any hardware change voids it. Trust me, I know this. In other words: 1) A FCC ID must uniquely identify one type of equipment, including any possible hardware mods (jumpers, wires, connectors etc) defined at certification time. 2) ANY other hardware configuration voids the FCC ID and may additionally subject the manufacturer to massive fines if the device radiates RFI and disturbs something else (such as flight traffic control, DME or nav beacons). So the answer is, yes, they to silently change chips and software revisions, but they do it offshore and hope to get away with it by passing liability on to other parties. The small software glitch or hardware 'improvement' (manufacturer originated, of the kind he'd forget to mention by the time revision B is shipped) in a 802.11 wireless router that turns it into an inadvertent 2.4GHz cordless phone jammer and prevents a life-saving 911 call is *very* small. Since the bad guys already have handheld jammers (one can buy them over the internet apparently), and amateurs are usually up to good things in small numbers, and won't try to jam anything out of malice (it is hard enough to make the quipment work as is), that leaves manufacturers who 'forget' to re-certify their new hardware, with their potentially buggy firmware in them, as the most likely culprits in case of trouble. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 16:24:58 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 May 2009, Peter wrote: > Correct, but that should be illegal because the FCC or > equivalent RFI compliance ID applies to the initial revision > only and any hardware change voids it. Trust me, I know this. > In other words: Do you know whether it is possible to a US person or institution to report such transgression and get FCC to act on it? How about in Canada? -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 16:26:36 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:26:36 -0400 Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> Message-ID: <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> Richard Weait wrote: > On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 15:53 -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Talks at TLUG meetings tend to be "intermittent" because of all the >> hecklers. ;-) >> > > Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? > I thought they were contributors to the talk :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 17:17:44 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 13:17:44 -0400 Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090516171744.GE21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 02:56:20PM +0000, Peter wrote: > > What I've read suggests that making the list you want is extremely > > difficult because manufacturers quietly and sometimes frequently > > change the chips in their routers - often without bothering to change > > the router name or even part or version number. Thus we have lists > > Correct, but that should be illegal because the FCC or equivalent RFI compliance > ID applies to the initial revision only and any hardware change voids it. Trust > me, I know this. In other words: > > 1) A FCC ID must uniquely identify one type of equipment, including any possible > hardware mods (jumpers, wires, connectors etc) defined at certification time. I am not convinced the FCC ID goes down to that extreme detail. If it did then to some extent firmware upgrades would not even be permitted given how many software driven devices exist these days. On the other hand I have used the FCC ID on the box to identify the version of a wifi card before, because it was the only thing on the box that did identify the revision properly (and happily ended up with a ralink version of the linksys pci card that way). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 17:39:12 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 13:39:12 -0400 Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <4A0EE93C.5010604-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> On Sat, 2009-05-16 at 12:26 -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: > Richard Weait wrote: > > On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 15:53 -0400, James Knott wrote: > > > >> Talks at TLUG meetings tend to be "intermittent" because of all the > >> hecklers. ;-) > >> > > > > Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? > > > I thought they were contributors to the talk :-) Heckling presenters at TLUG is mentioned once in a while on this list and during and after presentations. I guesstimate that "attendee contributions" at TLUG are two to four times more frequent than the other dozen LUGs I've attended in the last year. Meng Cheah's smiley above, suggests that hecklers are not contributing to the talk. Would anybody like to discuss the place of heckling at TLUG meetings? Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? Is it a sign of rapt attention and engagement in the presentation? Is it a sign of respect for the speaker? Is it a benefit to the LUG in general, to the attendee contributor, to the other attendees and to the speaker? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 18:55:24 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 14:55:24 -0400 Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> Message-ID: <4A0F0C1C.3020105@rogers.com> Richard Weait wrote: > On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 15:53 -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Talks at TLUG meetings tend to be "intermittent" because of all the >> hecklers. ;-) >> > > Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? > > Well, it's the reason I've stopped attending. It takes a bit of effort for me to get to that area of town and when I go to see a presentation, I don't want it to be interupted by hecklers. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 19:02:59 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <4A0F0C1C.3020105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0F0C1C.3020105@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 May 2009, James Knott wrote: > Richard Weait wrote: > > On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 15:53 -0400, James Knott wrote: > > > >> Talks at TLUG meetings tend to be "intermittent" because of all the > >> hecklers. ;-) > > > > Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? > > Well, it's the reason I've stopped attending. It takes a bit of > effort for me to get to that area of town and when I go to see a > presentation, I don't want it to be interupted by hecklers. coincidentally, i went through this years ago when i was a member of trilug (the triangle group in RTP, NC). every meeting was a combination of someone speaking, constantly interrupted by audience members trying to outdo one another in terms of "witty" comebacks. that sort of thing might work if it was a small group of good drinking buddies trying to crack each other up, but it fails badly when you're trying to attract new members and they show up, only to have their time totally and utterly wasted by a number of people trying to out-geek-humour each other. the basic issue is -- what audience you're trying to attract, and it's the issue i raised in NC. if you're happy to just hang out with other geeks and give talks that only other geeks will appreciate, then you can pretty much get away with anything. if, OTOH, you're trying to attract a fancier clientele (and by "fancier", i mean people who can make purchasing decisions and have access to the corporate chequebook), then you have a problem. and, quite simply, you can't do both equally well. so it's a simple question -- who's your audience? and how are you going to attract them? because people who are corporate decision makers might come to a LUG meeting for the first time and, after the sophomoric heckling, you can be pretty sure they won't be back. just my $0.02, having lived through it a few years back. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 19:07:11 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:07:11 -0400 Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A0F0EDF.1050903@rogers.com> Peter wrote: >> What I've read suggests that making the list you want is extremely >> difficult because manufacturers quietly and sometimes frequently >> change the chips in their routers - often without bothering to change >> the router name or even part or version number. Thus we have lists >> > > Correct, but that should be illegal because the FCC or equivalent RFI compliance > ID applies to the initial revision only and any hardware change voids it. Trust > me, I know this. In other words: > FCC regulations are irrelevant in Canada. We have to comply with Industry Canada regs, which are often similar to the FCC ones. > 1) A FCC ID must uniquely identify one type of equipment, including any possible > hardware mods (jumpers, wires, connectors etc) defined at certification time. > > 2) ANY other hardware configuration voids the FCC ID and may additionally > subject the manufacturer to massive fines if the device radiates RFI and > disturbs something else (such as flight traffic control, DME or nav beacons). > Licensed radio amateurs are allowed to make such modifications or "roll their own", provided the equipment then operates according to amateur radio regulations. > So the answer is, yes, they to silently change chips and software revisions, but > they do it offshore and hope to get away with it by passing liability on to > other parties. The small software glitch or hardware 'improvement' (manufacturer > originated, of the kind he'd forget to mention by the time revision B is > shipped) in a 802.11 wireless router that turns it into an inadvertent 2.4GHz > cordless phone jammer and prevents a life-saving 911 call is *very* small. > As that is an Insdustrial Scientific & Medical (ISM) band there is no protection from interference. > Since the bad guys already have handheld jammers (one can buy them over the > internet apparently), and amateurs are usually up to good things in small > numbers, and won't try to jam anything out of malice (it is hard enough to make > the quipment work as is), that leaves manufacturers who 'forget' to re-certify > their new hardware, with their potentially buggy firmware in them, as the most > likely culprits in case of trouble. > Part of the 2.4.GHz band overlaps part of an amateur radio band. Since amateur radio is a licensed service, it is entitled to protection from all ISM type devices and those devices must also accept any interference from a licensed service. This means that amateurs do not have to consider interference to your WiFi network or cordless phone, but you are responsible if your device, including microwave oven, causes interference to him. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 19:09:49 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:09:49 -0400 Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A0F0F7D.6030602@rogers.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Sat, 16 May 2009, Peter wrote: >> Correct, but that should be illegal because the FCC or equivalent RFI >> compliance ID applies to the initial revision only and any hardware >> change voids it. Trust me, I know this. In other words: > > Do you know whether it is possible to a US person or institution to > report such transgression and get FCC to act on it? > The FCC will not get involved with anything happening in Canada. If something here interferes with something there, they'll get Industry Canada involved. > How about in Canada? > Industry Canada is responsible for such things here. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 19:12:35 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:12:35 -0400 Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> Message-ID: <4A0F1023.6000603@rogers.com> Richard Weait wrote: > On Sat, 2009-05-16 at 12:26 -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: > >> Richard Weait wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 15:53 -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Talks at TLUG meetings tend to be "intermittent" because of all the >>>> hecklers. ;-) >>>> >>>> >>> Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? >>> >>> >> I thought they were contributors to the talk :-) >> > > Heckling presenters at TLUG is mentioned once in a while on this list > and during and after presentations. I guesstimate that "attendee > contributions" at TLUG are two to four times more frequent than the > other dozen LUGs I've attended in the last year. > > Meng Cheah's smiley above, suggests that hecklers are not contributing > to the talk. > > Would anybody like to discuss the place of heckling at TLUG meetings? > > Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? Is it a sign of > rapt attention and engagement in the presentation? Is it a sign of > respect for the speaker? Is it a benefit to the LUG in general, to the > attendee contributor, to the other attendees and to the speaker? > > As I mentioned in another note, I find it irritating and it's why I stopped attending TLUG meetings. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 22:18:11 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 18:18:11 -0400 Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> Message-ID: <4A0F3BA3.8020402@teksavvy.com> Richard Weait wrote: > On Sat, 2009-05-16 at 12:26 -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: > >> Richard Weait wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 15:53 -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Talks at TLUG meetings tend to be "intermittent" because of all the >>>> hecklers. ;-) >>>> >>>> >>> Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? >>> >>> >> I thought they were contributors to the talk :-) >> > > Heckling presenters at TLUG is mentioned once in a while on this list > and during and after presentations. I guesstimate that "attendee > contributions" at TLUG are two to four times more frequent than the > other dozen LUGs I've attended in the last year. > > Meng Cheah's smiley above, suggests that hecklers are not contributing > to the talk. > > Would anybody like to discuss the place of heckling at TLUG meetings? > > Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? Is it a sign of > rapt attention and engagement in the presentation? Is it a sign of > respect for the speaker? Is it a benefit to the LUG in general, to the > attendee contributor, to the other attendees and to the speaker? > Robert Brockway's talk on backups is the first meeting I have attended for a long time. This absence is not due to heckling. Since I have not been attending the meetings, I am in no position to judge the present trend of meetings. If only questions are allowed, it will make for a dull meeting. And how do you allow a question and not allow a counterpoint or an illustration/experience from the trenches? That is what I meant as contributions, from a diverse range of experiences and sets of skills. My 2-cents :-) Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 22:29:17 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 18:29:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <4A0F3BA3.8020402-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> <4A0F3BA3.8020402@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 May 2009, Meng Cheah wrote: > And how do you allow a question and not allow a counterpoint > or an illustration/experience from the trenches? > That is what I meant as contributions, from a diverse range of > experiences and sets of skills. Does not need to use heckling, though. The opinion can be politely presented when the person got the chance to do so. -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 22:33:38 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 18:33:38 -0400 Subject: Possible future talk; interest? In-Reply-To: References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A0F3F42.3040304@alteeve.com> Kevin Morris wrote: > I will be very interested too, count me in! > > Cheers > Kevin Wonderful, I was thinking there was no interest. :) Anyone in charge of meetings interested in booking me in August or so? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 16 22:37:49 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 18:37:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? In-Reply-To: <4A0F0F7D.6030602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> <4A0F0F7D.6030602@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 May 2009, James Knott wrote: > The FCC will not get involved with anything happening in > Canada. I was wondering about that as well. But I thought Peter tried to give general idea based on the manufacturer view. > Industry Canada is responsible for such things here. So, how it is in Canada? Is there any such registration / permit on wireless devices, and can it be tied to specific hardware? -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 17 00:00:01 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 20:00:01 -0400 Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> <4A0F0F7D.6030602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A0F5381.7050905@rogers.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Sat, 16 May 2009, James Knott wrote: >> The FCC will not get involved with anything happening in Canada. > > I was wondering about that as well. But I thought Peter tried to give > general idea based on the manufacturer view. > >> Industry Canada is responsible for such things here. > > So, how it is in Canada? Is there any such registration / permit on > wireless devices, and can it be tied to specific hardware? > I have no idea about the details. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 17 02:14:06 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 22:14:06 -0400 Subject: Possible future talk; interest? In-Reply-To: <4A02C8E7.4030700-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > ?So then, would there be any interest in an intermittent talk about Perl? I > was thinking along the lines of "Introduction to Writing Perl Modules", > "Introduction to Object Oriented Perl" or something similar/variation > of/combination of. Let me be devil's advocate for a moment... There is a perfectly good Perl users group in Toronto, called Toronto Perl Mongers. http://to.pm.org/ It seems to me as though people that are interested in Perl (I happen to find myself not in that set) are more likely to find that to be a preferable forum for this. I could be wrong, but I think it is worth your thinking it thru to ensure that you feel confident that you are presenting "forum-appropriately." There may very well be a cross-section where it *IS* worthwhile to present such at TLUG. I was at a conference the other month (PGEast) where there was supposed to be a PostgreSQL focus. I accidentally wound up at a talk on Groovy-on-Grails (a Java equivalent to Ruby-on-Rails) where the speaker barely touched on PG-relevant issues, which seemed a problem, at first. (And seemingly making it all hugely irrelevant to me :-).) Surprisingly, I was the question-meister in that talk, with some fairly mean questions; it turned out that there were some mighty interesting bits relating to database schema management where we were able to satisfy everyone that there are sane ways of managing Grails deployments. You're not forced to make DBAs cross :-). That was a pleasant surprise, to find it was relevant when it initially did not seem so. One other warning: There's some HUGE opinionated positions on Perl at TLUG; Drew has a history of getting enormously over-enthusiastic about Perl 6 stuff, and that's got a fair risk of looking like heckling :-). I'm not saying "don't do it" - but I'm not sure the same talks would be good for TLUG and TPM... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Laurence J. Peter - "Originality is the fine art of remembering what you hear but forgetting where you heard it." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/l/laurence_j_peter.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 17 02:43:42 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 22:43:42 -0400 Subject: Possible future talk; interest? In-Reply-To: References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4A0F79DE.8080403@alteeve.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: >> So then, would there be any interest in an intermittent talk about Perl? I >> was thinking along the lines of "Introduction to Writing Perl Modules", >> "Introduction to Object Oriented Perl" or something similar/variation >> of/combination of. > > Let me be devil's advocate for a moment... > > There is a perfectly good Perl users group in Toronto, called Toronto > Perl Mongers. http://to.pm.org/ > > It seems to me as though people that are interested in Perl (I happen > to find myself not in that set) are more likely to find that to be a > preferable forum for this. > > I could be wrong, but I think it is worth your thinking it thru to > ensure that you feel confident that you are presenting > "forum-appropriately." > > There may very well be a cross-section where it *IS* worthwhile to > present such at TLUG. > > I was at a conference the other month (PGEast) where there was > supposed to be a PostgreSQL focus. I accidentally wound up at a talk > on Groovy-on-Grails (a Java equivalent to Ruby-on-Rails) where the > speaker barely touched on PG-relevant issues, which seemed a problem, > at first. (And seemingly making it all hugely irrelevant to me :-).) > Surprisingly, I was the question-meister in that talk, with some > fairly mean questions; it turned out that there were some mighty > interesting bits relating to database schema management where we were > able to satisfy everyone that there are sane ways of managing Grails > deployments. You're not forced to make DBAs cross :-). > > That was a pleasant surprise, to find it was relevant when it > initially did not seem so. > > One other warning: There's some HUGE opinionated positions on Perl at > TLUG; Drew has a history of getting enormously over-enthusiastic about > Perl 6 stuff, and that's got a fair risk of looking like heckling :-). > > I'm not saying "don't do it" - but I'm not sure the same talks would > be good for TLUG and TPM... These are fair notes, and truth be told, I offered to present the same talk to TPM. I debated offering on TLUG, but figured Perl falls under "Linux", so offered. At first I got narry a reply to my offer, positive or otherwise. I assumed that meant it was too specific for TLUG, and it still may be. Though I've always been a believer in "nothing ventured, nothing gained", so I offered just the same. As for Drew, he works in the office beside me. So if he heckles me too much I'll just go randomly unplug stuff on him. :D Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun May 17 05:08:14 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 01:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: <11413.99.253.254.243.1242244992.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> <24E9C4D3-B642-4E97-8C00-827C16E93103@mylesbraithwaite.com> <4A0442A7.30804@telly.org> <4A047FF1.6000704@telly.org> <11413.99.253.254.243.1242244992.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 May 2009, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > No show, we had to buy our own drinks. Probably just as well ;). They were there. I was sitting fairly close to them but didn't get much of a chance to talk to them. We were all at the end of the table nearest the bar. I think everyone still bought their own drinks though :) I spent most of the time talking to Drew and a couple of other guys about amateur theatre :) I drank iced tea. I guess I am a tea-totaler literally and figuratively :) Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 17 11:12:41 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 07:12:41 -0400 Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <4A0F3BA3.8020402-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> <4A0F3BA3.8020402@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <4A0FF129.8060607@rogers.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > Richard Weait wrote: >> On Sat, 2009-05-16 at 12:26 -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: >> >>> Richard Weait wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 15:53 -0400, James Knott wrote: >>>> >>>>> Talks at TLUG meetings tend to be "intermittent" because of all the >>>>> hecklers. ;-) >>>>> >>>> Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? >>> I thought they were contributors to the talk :-) >>> >> >> Heckling presenters at TLUG is mentioned once in a while on this list >> and during and after presentations. I guesstimate that "attendee >> contributions" at TLUG are two to four times more frequent than the >> other dozen LUGs I've attended in the last year. >> Meng Cheah's smiley above, suggests that hecklers are not contributing >> to the talk. >> Would anybody like to discuss the place of heckling at TLUG meetings? >> Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? Is it a sign of >> rapt attention and engagement in the presentation? Is it a sign of >> respect for the speaker? Is it a benefit to the LUG in general, to the >> attendee contributor, to the other attendees and to the speaker? > Robert Brockway's talk on backups is the first meeting I have attended > for a long time. > This absence is not due to heckling. Since I have not been attending > the meetings, I am > in no position to judge the present trend of meetings. > > If only questions are allowed, it will make for a dull meeting. > And how do you allow a question and not allow a counterpoint or an > illustration/experience from the trenches? > That is what I meant as contributions, from a diverse range of > experiences and sets of skills. > Some speakers request all questions and comments be held until after the presentation. That format works. At TLUG, I often found the heckling trashed the presentation. Is that what you want? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 17 11:14:36 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 07:14:36 -0400 Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> <4A0F3BA3.8020402@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <4A0FF19C.9000405@rogers.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Sat, 16 May 2009, Meng Cheah wrote: >> And how do you allow a question and not allow a counterpoint or an >> illustration/experience from the trenches? >> That is what I meant as contributions, from a diverse range of >> experiences and sets of skills. > > Does not need to use heckling, though. The opinion can be politely > presented when the person got the chance to do so. > In some meetings I've attended, the method was to raise your hand and the presenter responded when convenient. The audience members *DO NOT* speak, until acknowledged by the presenter. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 17 11:30:02 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 07:30:02 -0400 Subject: Drinks with Microsoft, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <4A02E068.4090102@telly.org> <24E9C4D3-B642-4E97-8C00-827C16E93103@mylesbraithwaite.com> <4A0442A7.30804@telly.org> <4A047FF1.6000704@telly.org> <11413.99.253.254.243.1242244992.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4A0FF53A.6000902@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > I am a tea-totaler Don't worry, we all have our faults. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 17 12:36:14 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 08:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <4A0FF19C.9000405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> <4A0F3BA3.8020402@teksavvy.com> <4A0FF19C.9000405@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 May 2009, James Knott wrote: > In some meetings I've attended, the method was to raise your > hand and the presenter responded when convenient. The > audience members *DO NOT* speak, until acknowledged by the > presenter. Right, that's what I meant. -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun May 17 13:33:39 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:33:39 -0400 Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <4A0FF129.8060607-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> <4A0F3BA3.8020402@teksavvy.com> <4A0FF129.8060607@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A101233.4050102@teksavvy.com> James Knott wrote: > Meng Cheah wrote: > >> Richard Weait wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 2009-05-16 at 12:26 -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Richard Weait wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 15:53 -0400, James Knott wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Talks at TLUG meetings tend to be "intermittent" because of all the >>>>>> hecklers. ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? >>>>> >>>> I thought they were contributors to the talk :-) >>>> >>>> >>> Heckling presenters at TLUG is mentioned once in a while on this list >>> and during and after presentations. I guesstimate that "attendee >>> contributions" at TLUG are two to four times more frequent than the >>> other dozen LUGs I've attended in the last year. >>> Meng Cheah's smiley above, suggests that hecklers are not contributing >>> to the talk. >>> Would anybody like to discuss the place of heckling at TLUG meetings? >>> Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? Is it a sign of >>> rapt attention and engagement in the presentation? Is it a sign of >>> respect for the speaker? Is it a benefit to the LUG in general, to the >>> attendee contributor, to the other attendees and to the speaker? >>> >> Robert Brockway's talk on backups is the first meeting I have attended >> for a long time. >> This absence is not due to heckling. Since I have not been attending >> the meetings, I am >> in no position to judge the present trend of meetings. >> >> If only questions are allowed, it will make for a dull meeting. >> And how do you allow a question and not allow a counterpoint or an >> illustration/experience from the trenches? >> That is what I meant as contributions, from a diverse range of >> experiences and sets of skills. >> >> > > Some speakers request all questions and comments be held until after the > presentation. That format works. At TLUG, I often found the heckling > trashed the presentation. Is that what you want? > Since you asked, "No" :-) You stated: "In some meetings I've attended, the method was to raise your hand and the presenter responded when convenient. The audience members *DO NOT* speak, until acknowledged by the presenter." I too have witnessed this and it is what I do when I have a question. At the beginning of his talk, Robert Brockway laid out the format. He welcomed questions throughout the talk as he preferred it that way. It is up to TLUG to define the format of the presentation and of course, the presenter. Mostly, I believe it is up to the members/audience to practice courtesy and self restraint. Of course, there will be occasional incidents of (over)enthusiasm :-) Cheers Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 17 13:57:20 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:57:20 -0400 Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <4A101233.4050102-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> <4A0F3BA3.8020402@teksavvy.com> <4A0FF129.8060607@rogers.com> <4A101233.4050102@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <4A1017C0.4020103@rogers.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Meng Cheah wrote: >> >>> Richard Weait wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, 2009-05-16 at 12:26 -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Richard Weait wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 15:53 -0400, James Knott wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Talks at TLUG meetings tend to be "intermittent" because of all the >>>>>>> hecklers. ;-) >>>>>>> >>>>>> Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? >>>>>> >>>>> I thought they were contributors to the talk :-) >>>>> >>>> Heckling presenters at TLUG is mentioned once in a while on this list >>>> and during and after presentations. I guesstimate that "attendee >>>> contributions" at TLUG are two to four times more frequent than the >>>> other dozen LUGs I've attended in the last year. Meng Cheah's >>>> smiley above, suggests that hecklers are not contributing >>>> to the talk. Would anybody like to discuss the place of heckling at >>>> TLUG meetings? Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG >>>> meetings? Is it a sign of >>>> rapt attention and engagement in the presentation? Is it a sign of >>>> respect for the speaker? Is it a benefit to the LUG in general, to >>>> the >>>> attendee contributor, to the other attendees and to the speaker? >>>> >>> Robert Brockway's talk on backups is the first meeting I have attended >>> for a long time. >>> This absence is not due to heckling. Since I have not been attending >>> the meetings, I am >>> in no position to judge the present trend of meetings. >>> >>> If only questions are allowed, it will make for a dull meeting. >>> And how do you allow a question and not allow a counterpoint or an >>> illustration/experience from the trenches? >>> That is what I meant as contributions, from a diverse range of >>> experiences and sets of skills. >>> >>> >> >> Some speakers request all questions and comments be held until after the >> presentation. That format works. At TLUG, I often found the heckling >> trashed the presentation. Is that what you want? >> > Since you asked, "No" :-) > > You stated: > "In some meetings I've attended, the method was to raise your hand and > the presenter responded when convenient. The audience members *DO NOT* > speak, until acknowledged by the presenter." > > I too have witnessed this and it is what I do when I have a question. > > At the beginning of his talk, Robert Brockway laid out the format. > He welcomed questions throughout the talk as he preferred it that way. > > It is up to TLUG to define the format of the presentation and of > course, the presenter. > Mostly, I believe it is up to the members/audience to practice > courtesy and self restraint. > > Of course, there will be occasional incidents of (over)enthusiasm :-) > Some presenters do welcome questions during the presentation. I don't have a problem with that. The problem occurs when some feel they have a right to some outburst, without considering others. If questions are permitted, it shouldn't be a "free for all". -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 17 16:04:07 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 12:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Possible future talk; interest? In-Reply-To: <4A0F79DE.8080403-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A0F79DE.8080403@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 May 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > I debated offering on TLUG, but figured Perl falls under > "Linux", so offered. I remember that not too long time ago Perl actually become requirement to compile Linux kernel under development. :-) A ex-colleague of mine try to reverse that, I did not follow up whether he has been successful, though. Linux and Perl definitely have close relationship; most job description (yes, I am still looking :-( ) for Linux system administration include perl scripting. Maybe the talk can be more broad about "various way you can get more from Perl" instead of deep talk about specific aspect of Perl. > As for Drew, he works in the office beside me. So if he > heckles me too much I'll just go randomly unplug stuff on him. > :D Ah, good to know. :-) -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 18 07:06:18 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 03:06:18 -0400 Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> Message-ID: <4A1108EA.7050804@ualberta.ca> On 09-05-16 01:39 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > On Sat, 2009-05-16 at 12:26 -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: >> Richard Weait wrote: >>> On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 15:53 -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> >>>> Talks at TLUG meetings tend to be "intermittent" because of all the >>>> hecklers. ;-) >>>> >>> >>> Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? >>> >> I thought they were contributors to the talk :-) > > Heckling presenters at TLUG is mentioned once in a while on this list > and during and after presentations. I guesstimate that "attendee > contributions" at TLUG are two to four times more frequent than the > other dozen LUGs I've attended in the last year. > > Meng Cheah's smiley above, suggests that hecklers are not contributing > to the talk. > > Would anybody like to discuss the place of heckling at TLUG meetings? > > Is the heckling one of the benefits of TLUG meetings? Is it a sign of > rapt attention and engagement in the presentation? Is it a sign of > respect for the speaker? Is it a benefit to the LUG in general, to the > attendee contributor, to the other attendees and to the speaker? > Richard et. al, For what it's worth, here's my $0.02. I found there was way too much heckling at Colin's talk on Linux in Games talk; this talk was dominated by the heckling. It was enough to deter me from wanting to ever give a talk. The last talk I was at was the ICANN talk; and here it wasn't so much heckling as it was interruptions for correcting or adding to the speaker, which IMHO is just as distracting, especially when the points don't significantly affect the purpose of the talk (details, details). I, regrettably, missed the last one. So my personal opinion is that I would prefer to have the speaker give the talk with minimal heckling and then have the people who are interested in interaction/discussion stay at the end .. often it goes too late for me and I find that because I have to leave I end up only getting half of what I could out of the talk. I should mention that I like that the talks are informal.. I just wish that a talk with 45-60 min of content didn't take 120 to deliver. I've got a commute.. after a day of work post 8:30-9 PM I'm sorry but you've lost my interest -- it's just a physical and mental inevitability. Marc -- Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value. -- Albert Einstein -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 18 07:30:08 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 03:30:08 -0400 Subject: Possible future talk; interest? In-Reply-To: <4A0F79DE.8080403-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A0F79DE.8080403@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4A110E80.5090509@ualberta.ca> On 09-05-16 10:43 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > These are fair notes, and truth be told, I offered to present the same > talk to TPM. I debated offering on TLUG, but figured Perl falls under > "Linux", so offered. > > At first I got narry a reply to my offer, positive or otherwise. I > assumed that meant it was too specific for TLUG, and it still may be. > Though I've always been a believer in "nothing ventured, nothing > gained", so I offered just the same. > > As for Drew, he works in the office beside me. So if he heckles me too > much I'll just go randomly unplug stuff on him. :D I would be interested in any talk where programming and Linux somehow intersect. So consider this a vote for this topic plus any future topic suggestion for which this criterion holds. :) Marc -- Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value. -- Albert Einstein -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 18 16:23:31 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:23:31 -0400 Subject: Voip in Toronto Message-ID: <4A118B83.9050706@gmail.com> Hello Everyone, Is anyone offering reasonable Voip service in Toronto? One without requiring a contract with the telco? e.g., Rogers I know has some special home phone service, but I don't have nor want Rogers cable. Primus TalkBroadband service is the kind of thing I'm thinking of, but the last time I went with them, they were unreliable and quirky... and I mean, Skype was more reliable... Have they improved? I'd even say "Skype" would be the solution... if only they had Toronto numbers in Skype-in. All I really need is an inbound Toronto number with call forwarding, caller ID, call waiting. Even the line quality doesn't have to be perfect, but of course, it's always nice if it is. Thanks, -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 18 16:56:22 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:56:22 -0400 Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: <4A118B83.9050706-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A118B83.9050706@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/18/09, Mike Kallies wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > Is anyone offering reasonable Voip service in Toronto? One without > requiring a contract with the telco? e.g., Rogers I know has some > special home phone service, but I don't have nor want Rogers cable. I don't know the answer, but do know that the folks at the Toronto Asterisk Users' Group would know. If you don't get a useable answer here touch base with them.... The TAUG website is here: http://taug.ca/ Colin McGregor > Primus TalkBroadband service is the kind of thing I'm thinking of, but > the last time I went with them, they were unreliable and quirky... and I > mean, Skype was more reliable... Have they improved? I'd even say > "Skype" would be the solution... if only they had Toronto numbers in > Skype-in. > > All I really need is an inbound Toronto number with call forwarding, > caller ID, call waiting. Even the line quality doesn't have to be > perfect, but of course, it's always nice if it is. > > Thanks, > > -Mike > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 18 17:37:24 2009 From: alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 13:37:24 -0400 Subject: Voip in Toronto Message-ID: Hi, Try Unlimitel.ca. They provide the best VoIP service in Ontario in my experience. A good "value" provider is vBuzzer.com -Alex -original message- Subject: [TLUG]: Voip in Toronto From: Mike Kallies Date: 05/18/2009 12:23 Hello Everyone, Is anyone offering reasonable Voip service in Toronto? One without requiring a contract with the telco? e.g., Rogers I know has some special home phone service, but I don't have nor want Rogers cable. Primus TalkBroadband service is the kind of thing I'm thinking of, but the last time I went with them, they were unreliable and quirky... and I mean, Skype was more reliable... Have they improved? I'd even say "Skype" would be the solution... if only they had Toronto numbers in Skype-in. All I really need is an inbound Toronto number with call forwarding, caller ID, call waiting. Even the line quality doesn't have to be perfect, but of course, it's always nice if it is. Thanks, -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 18 19:52:47 2009 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 15:52:47 -0400 Subject: Slides from May talk now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1242676367.1634.33.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Hello Rob, Thanks for the slides. I hope "Don't backup ... use RAID 1" was not referring to my blog entry a couple of months ago. Just to be clear (if it was me): I was talking about data integrity...ensuring corrupted files aren't written to the backup. With modern drives and terabytes of data that lingers for years, that photo of your mom you took 10 years ago getting corrupted is a real problem. I've got Apple II files that I can no longer generate sitting on my website and they are irreplaceable. Any one of them could get ruined by a single bad block but would still be blissfully written to a backup disk or tape without anyone being the wiser. I don't know why a thread got started on TLUG that said that RAID 1 made backups unnecessary. Clearly those people didn't read my article. For disaster recovery, I think that the most critical point one could make is that making backups is useless if you can't restore from them, so a practice restore is always required to ensure the the backups are backing up the right information and in a usable form for recovery. Backup up the database directory, while the database is actively running, is a good example of getting data in a form that cannot be used for recovery. This may not be realized until a restore is attempted. Have a good long weekend. Ken B. On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 18:35 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > http://www.timetraveller.org/talks/backup_talk.pdf > > Some small additions and corrections are planned as I'll use the slides > again one day. > > Rob > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 18 21:24:05 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:24:05 -0400 Subject: Slides from May talk now available In-Reply-To: <1242676367.1634.33.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1242676367.1634.33.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <4A11D1F5.4060700@utoronto.ca> Ken Burtch wrote: > Hello Rob, > > Thanks for the slides. > > I hope "Don't backup ... use RAID 1" was not referring to my blog entry > a couple of months ago. > > Just to be clear (if it was me): I was talking about data > integrity...ensuring corrupted files aren't written to the backup. With > modern drives and terabytes of data that lingers for years, that photo > of your mom you took 10 years ago getting corrupted is a real problem. > I've got Apple II files that I can no longer generate sitting on my > website and they are irreplaceable. Any one of them could get ruined by > a single bad block but would still be blissfully written to a backup > disk or tape without anyone being the wiser. I don't know why a thread > got started on TLUG that said that RAID 1 made backups unnecessary. > Clearly those people didn't read my article. What thread was that? I don't recall anyone advocating RAID anything as a backup solution on this list in the last year or more. I'm sure if they had we'd have collectively got out our pitchforks and torches and sent said person running for the hills. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 01:07:57 2009 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 21:07:57 -0400 Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Interesting... I've been with Vonage for about 4 years. I've been paying about $40 a month for long distance every where in North America, and lots of nice features included. How do you find Unlimitel.ca compares to their service? I've had some weirdness with poor quality off and on over the years. John On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM, wrote: > Hi, > > Try Unlimitel.ca. They provide the best VoIP service in Ontario in my > experience. A good "value" provider is vBuzzer.com > > -Alex > > -original message- > Subject: [TLUG]: Voip in Toronto > From: Mike Kallies > Date: 05/18/2009 12:23 > > Hello Everyone, > > Is anyone offering reasonable Voip service in Toronto? One without > requiring a contract with the telco? e.g., Rogers I know has some > special home phone service, but I don't have nor want Rogers cable. > > Primus TalkBroadband service is the kind of thing I'm thinking of, but > the last time I went with them, they were unreliable and quirky... and I > mean, Skype was more reliable... Have they improved? I'd even say > "Skype" would be the solution... if only they had Toronto numbers in > Skype-in. > > All I really need is an inbound Toronto number with call forwarding, > caller ID, call waiting. Even the line quality doesn't have to be > perfect, but of course, it's always nice if it is. > > Thanks, > > -Mike > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 01:21:14 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 18:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <722741.88644.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> We use to use Igonet.com but had some issues making calls to Canadian numbers. Igonet is a US company. We paid about $32/mon. Now we switched to VoIPgo.com and it seams to have eliminated that issue as its a Canadian company and its about $20/mon. Our VoIP was worked well, because we have always had Rogers. It was only poor, when Rogers had issues or upgrades with the VoIP service. Hope this helps Abby ________________________________ From: John Miles To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:07:57 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Voip in Toronto Interesting... I've been with Vonage for about 4 years. I've been paying about $40 a month for long distance every where in North America, and lots of nice features included. How do you find Unlimitel.ca compares to their service? I've had some weirdness with poor quality off and on over the years. John On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM, wrote: Hi, Try Unlimitel.ca. They provide the best VoIP service in Ontario in my experience. A good "value" provider is vBuzzer.com -Alex -original message- Subject: [TLUG]: Voip in Toronto From: Mike Kallies Date: 05/18/2009 12:23 Hello Everyone, Is anyone offering reasonable Voip service in Toronto? One without requiring a contract with the telco? e.g., Rogers I know has some special home phone service, but I don't have nor want Rogers cable. Primus TalkBroadband service is the kind of thing I'm thinking of, but the last time I went with them, they were unreliable and quirky... and I mean, Skype was more reliable... Have they improved? I'd even say "Skype" would be the solution... if only they had Toronto numbers in Skype-in. All I really need is an inbound Toronto number with call forwarding, caller ID, call waiting. Even the line quality doesn't have to be perfect, but of course, it's always nice if it is. Thanks, -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 05:25:27 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 01:25:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Slides from May talk now available In-Reply-To: <1242676367.1634.33.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1242676367.1634.33.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 May 2009, Ken Burtch wrote: > I hope "Don't backup ... use RAID 1" was not referring to my blog entry > a couple of months ago. No, it wasn't :) People have said this to be a few times but I was principally thinking about a discussion at a party many years ago. Yes, I talk about backup strategies at parties ;) > Just to be clear (if it was me): I was talking about data > integrity...ensuring corrupted files aren't written to the backup. With > modern drives and terabytes of data that lingers for years, that photo > of your mom you took 10 years ago getting corrupted is a real problem. > I've got Apple II files that I can no longer generate sitting on my > website and they are irreplaceable. Any one of them could get ruined by > a single bad block but would still be blissfully written to a backup > disk or tape without anyone being the wiser. I don't know why a thread These are some good points. One option is to keep md5 hashes of files and use them to verify the backups. This is not something I've put in my custom backup system yet but perhaps I should. > For disaster recovery, I think that the most critical point one could > make is that making backups is useless if you can't restore from them, > so a practice restore is always required to ensure the the backups are > backing up the right information and in a usable form for recovery. Absolutely. Disaster Recovery Testing (DRT) is an essential component of a backup strategy. As I noted during the talk I plan this stuff out, do DRT and I've still found problems to solve when a real DR came about. > Backup up the database directory, while the database is actively > running, is a good example of getting data in a form that cannot be used > for recovery. This may not be realized until a restore is attempted. A question during the talk focused on this exact issue. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 14:33:25 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 10:33:25 -0400 Subject: Slides from May talk now available In-Reply-To: References: <1242676367.1634.33.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <20090519143325.GF21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 01:25:27AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > No, it wasn't :) People have said this to be a few times but I was > principally thinking about a discussion at a party many years ago. Yeah, raid is simply to protect against disk failure and nothing else. It isn't backup, it isn't protection against corruption, or user error. The avsim site must have realized by now that mirroring doesn't replace backups. > Yes, I talk about backup strategies at parties ;) Sounds perfectly reasonable. > These are some good points. > > One option is to keep md5 hashes of files and use them to verify the > backups. This is not something I've put in my custom backup system yet > but perhaps I should. btrfs is going to CRC32 each data block in the filesystem. That might be helpful. > Absolutely. Disaster Recovery Testing (DRT) is an essential component of > a backup strategy. And if you use tape, make sure you have a tape drive somewhere else that you know can read the tapes. The fact you can restore it with the tape drive that made the tape doesn't help if the building burt down. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 14:35:09 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 10:35:09 -0400 Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: <722741.88644.qm-lx+WhWNRxMv5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <722741.88644.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I've been using vbuzzer/Free Phone Line at (www.freephoneline.ca). They are the best for your buck, the quality is usually pretty good but I can't tell you compared to other providers. The one thing you can do with www.freephoneline.ca is get a free phone number and use your computer to test it for the quality before registering. So basically if you use your COMPUTER as the phone its free, they only charge for ata. Also freephoneline only has an initial cost, every month/year is free afterwards. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: > We use to use Igonet.com but had some issues making calls to Canadian > numbers. Igonet is a US company. We paid about $32/mon. Now we switched to > VoIPgo.com and it seams to have eliminated that issue as its a Canadian > company and its about $20/mon. > > Our VoIP was worked well, because we have always had Rogers. It was only > poor, when Rogers had issues or upgrades with the VoIP service. > > Hope this helps > Abby > > > ________________________________ > From: John Miles > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:07:57 PM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Voip in Toronto > > Interesting... I've been with Vonage for about 4 years. I've been paying > about $40 a month for long distance every where in North America, and lots > of nice features included. > How do you find Unlimitel.ca compares to their service? > I've had some weirdness with poor quality off and on over the years. > > John > > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM, wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Try Unlimitel.ca. They provide the best VoIP service in Ontario in my >> experience. A good "value" provider is vBuzzer.com >> >> -Alex >> >> -original message- >> Subject: [TLUG]: Voip in Toronto >> From: Mike Kallies >> Date: 05/18/2009 12:23 >> >> Hello Everyone, >> >> Is anyone offering reasonable Voip service in Toronto? ?One without >> requiring a contract with the telco? ?e.g., Rogers I know has some >> special home phone service, but I don't have nor want Rogers cable. >> >> Primus TalkBroadband service is the kind of thing I'm thinking of, but >> the last time I went with them, they were unreliable and quirky... and I >> mean, Skype was more reliable... ?Have they improved? ?I'd even say >> "Skype" would be the solution... if only they had Toronto numbers in >> Skype-in. >> >> All I really need is an inbound Toronto number with call forwarding, >> caller ID, call waiting. ?Even the line quality doesn't have to be >> perfect, but of course, it's always nice if it is. >> >> Thanks, >> >> -Mike >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on the web and bookmark your > favourite sites. Download it now! -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 14:43:15 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 10:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 May 2009, Richard Weait wrote: > Would anybody like to discuss the place of heckling at TLUG meetings? I'm not sure I'd call it heckling. Points from the floor normally come in one of two varieties: 1) Comments/annecdotes related to the topic that are sometimes amusing and sometimes intended to show off knowledge of the subject. 2) Insightful questions that raise important points. I've done quite a few talks at TLUG including the most recent one of course. I have found that the contributions from the floor, while generally valuable, do slow the talks down quite a lot. I think each speaker should be allowed to manage that as they see fit, perhaps with help from Drew. Personally I lean heavily towards allowing questions during the talk. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 15:09:12 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 08:09:12 -0700 Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: <4A118B83.9050706-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A118B83.9050706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0905190809g1390f92ck557b201343e00069@mail.gmail.com> If you want to pay by-the-minute, you could try "voicemeup", which I had mentioned a little while back. They also have monthly plans which I believe are still on a month-to-month. I'm using the on-demand as above, but for the $35 plan it seems you get a local #, a toll-free, and 2500 minutes (which I believe are for Canada, USA, and many other countries) Also, I've got mine connected to an asterisk box, but there are plenty of hardware devices or a SIP phone etc you could pick up to handle this on your own. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Mike Kallies wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > Is anyone offering reasonable Voip service in Toronto? ?One without > requiring a contract with the telco? ?e.g., Rogers I know has some > special home phone service, but I don't have nor want Rogers cable. > > Primus TalkBroadband service is the kind of thing I'm thinking of, but > the last time I went with them, they were unreliable and quirky... and I > mean, Skype was more reliable... ?Have they improved? ?I'd even say > "Skype" would be the solution... if only they had Toronto numbers in > Skype-in. > > All I really need is an inbound Toronto number with call forwarding, > caller ID, call waiting. ?Even the line quality doesn't have to be > perfect, but of course, it's always nice if it is. > > Thanks, > > -Mike > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 15:16:22 2009 From: fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Salman Ahmed) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 08:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Free to a good home: Compaq Deskpro EN Message-ID: <315628.55042.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I have a non-functioning Compaq Deskpro EN SFF (small form factor) PC that might be of use to someone who can fix it. This PC has a dead or damaged PSU - either it can be repaired or replaced. This PC had been running Debian perfectly for a few months until about two weeks ago when a power fluctuation knocked it out. I now regret not having it on a UPS. Googling for this type of problem revealed that it is a "Power Supply Crow Bar" which means that the PSU has died. However, since this SFF PC uses a non-standard PSU I can't be bothered to look for a replacement. The PC's specs are: PIII 733MHz CPU, 128Mb PC100 SD-RAM, CD-ROM drive, built-in 10/100 NIC, built-in VGA (or SVGA) graphics, >= 2 USB 1.0 ports. This PC is being offered as is without monitor, mouse, keyboard, HDD, or any cables to anyone who can pick it up and repair it. You just need to find a replacement PSU and add an IDE HDD and you'll have a very quiet and compact PC for running Linux. Pickup only from near Don Mills Rd & Eglinton Ave. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 15:34:50 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:34:50 -0400 Subject: Free to a good home: Compaq Deskpro EN In-Reply-To: <315628.55042.qm-gRJVcx+G6WWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <315628.55042.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090519153450.GG21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 08:16:22AM -0700, Salman Ahmed wrote: > I have a non-functioning Compaq Deskpro EN SFF (small form factor) PC that might be of use to someone who can fix it. This PC has a dead or damaged PSU - either it can be repaired or replaced. > > This PC had been running Debian perfectly for a few months until about two weeks ago when a power fluctuation knocked it out. I now regret not having it on a UPS. > > Googling for this type of problem revealed that it is a "Power Supply Crow Bar" which means that the PSU has died. However, since this SFF PC uses a non-standard PSU I can't be bothered to look for a replacement. > > The PC's specs are: PIII 733MHz CPU, 128Mb PC100 SD-RAM, CD-ROM drive, built-in 10/100 NIC, built-in VGA (or SVGA) graphics, >= 2 USB 1.0 ports. > > This PC is being offered as is without monitor, mouse, keyboard, HDD, or any cables to anyone who can pick it up and repair it. You just need to find a replacement PSU and add an IDE HDD and you'll have a very quiet and compact PC for running Linux. > > Pickup only from near Don Mills Rd & Eglinton Ave. Given it is small form factor, it is quite likely a new power supply would be pretty expensive, and worth more than it would cost to buy the whole machine used (I know we bought some compaq 733 P3 boxes (although ATX) 5 years ago for $100 each, so I doubt they are worth anything these days). Nice solid little machines, but a shame about the formfactor. Still a nice toy is someone has time to play with it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 15:57:59 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:57:59 -0400 Subject: Free to a good home: Compaq Deskpro EN In-Reply-To: <20090519153450.GG21464-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <315628.55042.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090519153450.GG21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A12D707.3060603@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 08:16:22AM -0700, Salman Ahmed wrote: >> I have a non-functioning Compaq Deskpro EN SFF (small form factor) PC that might be of use to someone who can fix it. This PC has a dead or damaged PSU - either it can be repaired or replaced. >> >> This PC had been running Debian perfectly for a few months until about two weeks ago when a power fluctuation knocked it out. I now regret not having it on a UPS. >> >> Googling for this type of problem revealed that it is a "Power Supply Crow Bar" which means that the PSU has died. However, since this SFF PC uses a non-standard PSU I can't be bothered to look for a replacement. >> >> The PC's specs are: PIII 733MHz CPU, 128Mb PC100 SD-RAM, CD-ROM drive, built-in 10/100 NIC, built-in VGA (or SVGA) graphics, >= 2 USB 1.0 ports. >> >> This PC is being offered as is without monitor, mouse, keyboard, HDD, or any cables to anyone who can pick it up and repair it. You just need to find a replacement PSU and add an IDE HDD and you'll have a very quiet and compact PC for running Linux. >> >> Pickup only from near Don Mills Rd & Eglinton Ave. > > Given it is small form factor, it is quite likely a new power supply would > be pretty expensive, and worth more than it would cost to buy the whole > machine used (I know we bought some compaq 733 P3 boxes (although ATX) > 5 years ago for $100 each, so I doubt they are worth anything these days). > > Nice solid little machines, but a shame about the formfactor. > > Still a nice toy is someone has time to play with it. Or for someone with a spare normal power supply who doesn't care about running it with the case off. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 16:00:16 2009 From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen Thornton) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 12:00:16 -0400 Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> Message-ID: <1242748816.6382.24.camel@bliss.ss.org> I have been away since the last Tlug meeting and am now catching up on mail. I learn a great deal at Tlug meetings from the "hecklers" not only that but it makes the meeting much more interesting. As I am not a programmer but a learner, oft times a straight lecture will put me to sleep. I get lost as things get more complicated but the personalization of those in attendance show me the how's and why's of the lecture. This is the main reason I even turn-up, I tried a few other group meetings and found I learnt sweet little and they were not nearly as friendly as the Tlug group. Keep it up guys. Maureen On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 10:43 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sat, 16 May 2009, Richard Weait wrote: > > > Would anybody like to discuss the place of heckling at TLUG meetings? > > I'm not sure I'd call it heckling. Points from the floor normally come in > one of two varieties: > > 1) Comments/annecdotes related to the topic that are sometimes amusing > and sometimes intended to show off knowledge of the subject. > > 2) Insightful questions that raise important points. > > I've done quite a few talks at TLUG including the most recent one of > course. I have found that the contributions from the floor, while > generally valuable, do slow the talks down quite a lot. I think each > speaker should be allowed to manage that as they see fit, perhaps with > help from Drew. Personally I lean heavily towards allowing questions > during the talk. > > Rob > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 16:09:27 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:09:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <722741.88644.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <532358.52544.qm@web59506.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello everyone! Just food for thought. :) Its great that there is VoIP through the computer (soft phone), but it may not be as reliable as an ATA box. We have a good AMD64, lots of ram, great OS, but even still there may be times, with multitasking that the soft phone will have issues with the computers performance and the fact that the computer needs to be on 24/7 to receive calls. All of this topic boils done to the old expression:"6 of one & half a dozen of another!" :) Good luck to anyone looking for alternative phone choices! Abby ________________________________ From: Dave Germiquet To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:35:09 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Voip in Toronto Hi, I've been using vbuzzer/Free Phone Line at (www.freephoneline.ca). They are the best for your buck, the quality is usually pretty good but I can't tell you compared to other providers. The one thing you can do with www.freephoneline.ca is get a free phone number and use your computer to test it for the quality before registering. So basically if you use your COMPUTER as the phone its free, they only charge for ata. Also freephoneline only has an initial cost, every month/year is free afterwards. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: > We use to use Igonet.com but had some issues making calls to Canadian > numbers. Igonet is a US company. We paid about $32/mon. Now we switched to > VoIPgo.com and it seams to have eliminated that issue as its a Canadian > company and its about $20/mon. > > Our VoIP was worked well, because we have always had Rogers. It was only > poor, when Rogers had issues or upgrades with the VoIP service. > > Hope this helps > Abby > > > ________________________________ > From: John Miles > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:07:57 PM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Voip in Toronto > > Interesting... I've been with Vonage for about 4 years. I've been paying > about $40 a month for long distance every where in North America, and lots > of nice features included. > How do you find Unlimitel.ca compares to their service? > I've had some weirdness with poor quality off and on over the years. > > John > > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM, wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Try Unlimitel.ca. They provide the best VoIP service in Ontario in my >> experience. A good "value" provider is vBuzzer.com >> >> -Alex >> >> -original message- >> Subject: [TLUG]: Voip in Toronto >> From: Mike Kallies >> Date: 05/18/2009 12:23 >> >> Hello Everyone, >> >> Is anyone offering reasonable Voip service in Toronto? One without >> requiring a contract with the telco? e.g., Rogers I know has some >> special home phone service, but I don't have nor want Rogers cable. >> >> Primus TalkBroadband service is the kind of thing I'm thinking of, but >> the last time I went with them, they were unreliable and quirky... and I >> mean, Skype was more reliable... Have they improved? I'd even say >> "Skype" would be the solution... if only they had Toronto numbers in >> Skype-in. >> >> All I really need is an inbound Toronto number with call forwarding, >> caller ID, call waiting. Even the line quality doesn't have to be >> perfect, but of course, it's always nice if it is. >> >> Thanks, >> >> -Mike >> Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer? 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 16:10:18 2009 From: fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Salman Ahmed) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Free to a good home: Compaq Deskpro EN Message-ID: <716796.96009.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> That's an interesting idea - I never thought of that! Although there may still be problems with trying to run the Compaq with the case off - some Compaq desktop models have detection built-in to make sure that they are not run with the case/cover off. --- On Tue, 5/19/09, Madison Kelly wrote: > > Or for someone with a spare normal power supply who doesn't > care about > running it with the case off. :) > > Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 16:12:45 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Free to a good home: Compaq Deskpro EN In-Reply-To: <4A12D707.3060603-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <315628.55042.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090519153450.GG21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A12D707.3060603@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <61371.36168.qm@web59504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> LOL I got so use to have the case off, that I even had them off the new computer for first little while. My old computers, still have the cases off of them. :) Abby ________________________________ From: Madison Kelly To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:57:59 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Free to a good home: Compaq Deskpro EN Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 08:16:22AM -0700, Salman Ahmed wrote: >> I have a non-functioning Compaq Deskpro EN SFF (small form factor) PC that might be of use to someone who can fix it. This PC has a dead or damaged PSU - either it can be repaired or replaced. >>... > > Nice solid little machines, but a shame about the formfactor. > > Still a nice toy is someone has time to play with it. Or for someone with a spare normal power supply who doesn't care about running it with the case off. :) Madi __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 16:18:05 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) In-Reply-To: <1242748816.6382.24.camel-Cc8bTzyuDCFg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> <1242748816.6382.24.camel@bliss.ss.org> Message-ID: <582056.20984.qm@web59515.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello Maureen Well, know I regret missing that meeting!! If it gets repeated or someone is willing to repeat here experience, I'll be there! :) Kind regards Abby ________________________________ From: Maureen Thornton To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:00:16 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Hecklers (was Possible future talk; interest?) I have been away since the last Tlug meeting and am now catching up on mail. I learn a great deal at Tlug meetings from the "hecklers" not only that but it makes the meeting much more interesting. As I am not a programmer but a learner, oft times a straight lecture will put me to sleep. I get lost as things get more complicated but the personalization of those in attendance show me the how's and why's of the lecture. This is the main reason I even turn-up, I tried a few other group meetings and found I learnt sweet little and they were not nearly as friendly as the Tlug group. Keep it up guys. Maureen On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 10:43 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sat, 16 May 2009, Richard Weait wrote: > > > Would anybody like to discuss the place of heckling at TLUG meetings? > > I'm not sure I'd call it heckling. Points from the floor normally come in > one of two varieties: > > 1) Comments/annecdotes related to the topic that are sometimes amusing > and sometimes intended to show off knowledge of the subject. > > 2) Insightful questions that raise important points. > > I've done quite a few talks at TLUG including the most recent one of > course. I have found that the contributions from the floor, while > generally valuable, do slow the talks down quite a lot. I think each > speaker should be allowed to manage that as they see fit, perhaps with > help from Drew. Personally I lean heavily towards allowing questions > during the talk. > > Rob > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 16:24:25 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 12:24:25 -0400 Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: <532358.52544.qm-nt6EyOlr02z5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <722741.88644.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba@mail.gmail.com> <532358.52544.qm@web59506.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880905190924h6e59fe39y888ac41bdd109eb8@mail.gmail.com> Yes, I understand that softphones have its limitations. However I just mentioned it that you can try it out as a softphone. You have the option of using it with an ata device if you pay a one time setup fee (I think its 50 dollars) Vbuzzer can hook up to ata devices as well. But yes, it all depends on the purpose of the phone, and there are many voip providers out there that suit different purposes...sorry for straying off topic. TTYL. On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: > Hello everyone! > > Just food for thought. :) > > Its great that there is VoIP through the computer (soft phone), but it may > not be as reliable as an ATA box. We have a good AMD64, lots of ram, great > OS, but even still there may be times, with multitasking that the soft phone > will have issues with the computers performance and the fact that the > computer needs to be on 24/7 to receive calls. > > All of this topic boils done to the old expression:"6 of one & half a dozen > of another!" :) > > Good luck to anyone looking for alternative phone choices! > > Abby > > > > ________________________________ > From: Dave Germiquet > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:35:09 AM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Voip in Toronto > > Hi, > > I've been using vbuzzer/Free Phone Line at (www.freephoneline.ca). > They are the best for your buck, the quality is usually pretty good > but I can't tell you compared to other providers. > > The one thing you can do with www.freephoneline.ca is get a free phone > number and use your computer to test it for the quality before > registering. So basically if you use your COMPUTER as the phone its > free, they only charge for ata. Also freephoneline only has an initial > cost, every month/year is free afterwards. > > > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Abidel Bassie-Cripps > wrote: >> We use to use Igonet.com but had some issues making calls to Canadian >> numbers. Igonet is a US company. We paid about $32/mon. Now we switched to >> VoIPgo.com and it seams to have eliminated that issue as its a Canadian >> company and its about $20/mon. >> >> Our VoIP was worked well, because we have always had Rogers. It was only >> poor, when Rogers had issues or upgrades with the VoIP service. >> >> Hope this helps >> Abby >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: John Miles >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:07:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Voip in Toronto >> >> Interesting... I've been with Vonage for about 4 years. I've been paying >> about $40 a month for long distance every where in North America, and lots >> of nice features included. >> How do you find Unlimitel.ca compares to their service? >> I've had some weirdness with poor quality off and on over the years. >> >> John >> >> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 1:37 PM, wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Try Unlimitel.ca. They provide the best VoIP service in Ontario in my >>> experience. A good "value" provider is vBuzzer.com >>> >>> -Alex >>> >>> -original message- >>> Subject: [TLUG]: Voip in Toronto >>> From: Mike Kallies >>> Date: 05/18/2009 12:23 >>> >>> Hello Everyone, >>> >>> Is anyone offering reasonable Voip service in Toronto? ?One without >>> requiring a contract with the telco? ?e.g., Rogers I know has some >>> special home phone service, but I don't have nor want Rogers cable. >>> >>> Primus TalkBroadband service is the kind of thing I'm thinking of, but >>> the last time I went with them, they were unreliable and quirky... and I >>> mean, Skype was more reliable... ?Have they improved? ?I'd even say >>> "Skype" would be the solution... if only they had Toronto numbers in >>> Skype-in. >>> >>> All I really need is an inbound Toronto number with call forwarding, >>> caller ID, call waiting. ?Even the line quality doesn't have to be >>> perfect, but of course, it's always nice if it is. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> -Mike >>> > > Dave Germiquet > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > ________________________________ > The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! > Get it Now for Free! -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 16:26:39 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <722741.88644.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <494887.57727.qm@web59501.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello everyone! Just food for thought. :) Its great that there is VoIP through the computer (soft phone), but it may not be as reliable as an ATA box. We have a good AMD64, lots of ram, great OS, but even still there may be times, with multitasking that the soft phone will have issues with the computers performance and the fact that the computer needs to be on 24/7 to receive calls. All of this topic boils done to the old expression:"6 of one & half a dozen of another!" :) Good luck to anyone looking for alternative phone choices! Abby __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 16:27:05 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 12:27:05 -0400 Subject: Narcoleptic Presentations In-Reply-To: <1242748816.6382.24.camel-Cc8bTzyuDCFg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> <1242748816.6382.24.camel@bliss.ss.org> Message-ID: <1242750425.26622.370.camel@leon> On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 12:00 -0400, Maureen Thornton wrote: > As I am not a programmer but a learner, oft times a straight lecture > will put me to sleep. I get lost as things get more complicated but > the personalization of those in attendance show me the how's and why's > of the lecture. What are the things that speakers can do to make their presentations less sleep-inducing? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 16:33:51 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 12:33:51 -0400 Subject: Moblin, anyone? Message-ID: <4A12DF6F.3050907@telly.org> Does anyone here have any experience with the Moblin project (http://moblin.org/)? Now that it's shifted focus from MIDs to netbooks and has the Linux Foundation (as well as Novell and of course Intel) behind it, the resulting system looks like a viable alternative to Ubuntu Netbook Remix. I'm looking at the possibility of dual-booting the latest release of Moblin (V2.0beta2) with the UNR on my EeePC. Has anyone else tried this? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 16:36:01 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 12:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Btrfs (Re: Slides from May talk now available) In-Reply-To: <20090519143325.GF21464-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1242676367.1634.33.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <20090519143325.GF21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 May 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > btrfs is going to CRC32 each data block in the filesystem. > That might be helpful. Ah, Btrfs. Is it the one supposedly Oracle-sponsored answered to ZFS? How close it is to production these days? Wondering whether Oracle buying Sun will affect it. -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 17:05:15 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:05:15 -0400 Subject: Narcoleptic Presentations In-Reply-To: <1242750425.26622.370.camel@leon> References: <4A02C8E7.4030700@alteeve.com> <4A04D20E.2040709@alteeve.com> <32f6a8880905151143x46dbf16ak427c4eb3f03b57c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A0DC84E.5080907@rogers.com> <1242485167.26622.213.camel@leon> <4A0EE93C.5010604@teksavvy.com> <1242495552.26622.236.camel@leon> <1242748816.6382.24.camel@bliss.ss.org> <1242750425.26622.370.camel@leon> Message-ID: <4A12E6CB.6040004@ualberta.ca> On 09-05-19 12:27 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 12:00 -0400, Maureen Thornton wrote: >> As I am not a programmer but a learner, oft times a straight lecture >> will put me to sleep. I get lost as things get more complicated but >> the personalization of those in attendance show me the how's and why's >> of the lecture. > > What are the things that speakers can do to make their presentations > less sleep-inducing? > Richard, I agree with Maureen: encouraging interaction/questions is good. It adds to an otherwise monotone atmosphere, even when the presenter is a great speaker. Too much interaction is not good.. its values tends to diminish over time and the momentum of the delivery is affected, the topic doesn't stay on course. I'd suggest making shorter talks but the content of the talks have often been less than an hour if no questions were asked. I think 45 minutes with 15 min of question (spread throughout and/or at the end) works well. I'd prefer if we focus on asking/commenting the most relevant ones during the talk and save the rest for the end. Examples/demonstrations that somehow involve the audience also work well, even if it's just to ask them questions "How many people here have used X?" to keep them attentive. I think having the lights turned on (or, brighter) during the presentation would help as well. It's a hard slot.. 7:30 PM, after supper -- this is why we don't work or go to school at this time .. well.. most of us don't :) Marc -- Human knowledge belongs to the world. -- Teddy Chin in 'Antitrust' (ref: open source software) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 17:06:00 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:06:00 -0400 Subject: Free to a good home: Compaq Deskpro EN In-Reply-To: <4A12D707.3060603-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <315628.55042.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090519153450.GG21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A12D707.3060603@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090519170600.GH21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:57:59AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Or for someone with a spare normal power supply who doesn't care about > running it with the case off. :) Yeah that too, although that might cause cooling problems on a box like that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 17:08:16 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:08:16 -0400 Subject: Btrfs (Re: Slides from May talk now available) In-Reply-To: References: <1242676367.1634.33.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> <20090519143325.GF21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090519170816.GI21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:36:01PM -0400, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Ah, Btrfs. Is it the one supposedly Oracle-sponsored answered to ZFS? How > close it is to production these days? Wondering whether Oracle buying Sun > will affect it. Well the code was merged in 2.6.29, although they say the on disk layout could still be tweaked a bit so not ready for production use yet. Fine for playing with and testing as long as you don't mind having to re mkfs if the disk layout does change in an incompatible way in the future. And yes oracle is sponsoring some of the development, but it sure looks good. Looks much better than ZFS in fact. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 17:09:41 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 13:09:41 -0400 Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: <494887.57727.qm-psvczfE7sJD5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <722741.88644.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba@mail.gmail.com> <494887.57727.qm@web59501.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0905191009m5704da03ic61fb2f16ab60181@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: > Hello everyone! > > Just food for thought. :) > > Its great that there is VoIP through the computer (soft phone), but it may > not be as reliable as an ATA box. We have a good AMD64, lots of ram, great > OS, but even still there may be times, with multitasking that the soft phone > will have issues with the computers performance and the fact that the > computer needs to be on 24/7 to receive calls. > > All of this topic boils done to the old expression:"6 of one & half a dozen > of another!" :) > > Good luck to anyone looking for alternative phone choices! > > Abby For what I need it for, call quality isn't all that critical.. as long as it is *reasonable*. The problem is that my landlord doesn't want us using cell phones for buzzing people into the building. He already knows my cell phone number. So, rather than giving him the *72 argument, I figured I'd just give him a cheapo voip number and forward it up anyway. Worst case, the voip is down and people have to call my cell direct for me to walk down to open the door. CallerID, voicemail and forwarding are great services, but Bell wants far too much money for all that. The landline would be handy for "free" local calls, but to use it as a buzzer in my apartment would cost me $30/mo for the service after call waiting. Without call waiting, it's quite seriously ONLY a $23/mo door opener. Faced with that option, I'd rather answer my cell and walk down to open the door. I don't get unexpected guests, so it's not a big deal to make sure that the machine is running. I'll give these "free" guys a try. Maybe if they're good call quality etc, I'll consider an ATA to use it as an actual phone some time. Oh and thanks for everyone's help on this one, I'm sorry it's been a bit off topic... Too much Toronto, not enough Linux. The comments have been very helpful to me and I don't know another list of gurus in Toronto who'd know this stuff. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 21:36:45 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:36:45 -0400 Subject: Free to a good home: Compaq Deskpro EN In-Reply-To: <20090519170600.GH21464-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <315628.55042.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090519153450.GG21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A12D707.3060603@alteeve.com> <20090519170600.GH21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A13266D.9040109@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:57:59AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Or for someone with a spare normal power supply who doesn't care about >> running it with the case off. :) >> > > Yeah that too, although that might cause cooling problems on a box > like that. > > Also might cause interference problems. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 21:38:29 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 17:38:29 -0400 Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0905191009m5704da03ic61fb2f16ab60181-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <722741.88644.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba@mail.gmail.com> <494887.57727.qm@web59501.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <92ee967a0905191009m5704da03ic61fb2f16ab60181@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A1326D5.7040302@rogers.com> Mike Kallies wrote: > On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Abidel Bassie-Cripps > wrote: > >> Hello everyone! >> >> Just food for thought. :) >> >> Its great that there is VoIP through the computer (soft phone), but it may >> not be as reliable as an ATA box. We have a good AMD64, lots of ram, great >> OS, but even still there may be times, with multitasking that the soft phone >> will have issues with the computers performance and the fact that the >> computer needs to be on 24/7 to receive calls. >> >> All of this topic boils done to the old expression:"6 of one & half a dozen >> of another!" :) >> >> Good luck to anyone looking for alternative phone choices! >> >> Abby >> > > For what I need it for, call quality isn't all that critical.. as long > as it is *reasonable*. > > The problem is that my landlord doesn't want us using cell phones for > buzzing people into the building. He already knows my cell phone > number. So, rather than giving him the *72 argument, I figured I'd > just give him a cheapo voip number and forward it up anyway. Worst > case, the voip is down and people have to call my cell direct for me > to walk down to open the door. > Why doesn't he like cell phones? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 19 22:23:35 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 18:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Slides from May talk now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 May 2009, Robert Brockway wrote: > http://www.timetraveller.org/talks/backup_talk.pdf Thanks Rob! Make feel more unfortunate not be able to come. :-) Few questions I have in mind; sorry if these questions already came up in the talk before. For home purpose and probably small businesses, they may want to take a look at other solutions which are cheaper or at least less overhead cost: * Archival grade (so called medical grade) CD-R and DVD-R. Yes we know that "100 years CD" is just myth and that many cheap CD-R & DVD-R does not even last a year; but how about this archival grade stuff (and where we can get it in Canada, anyway)? With good error correction mechanism (any good open source solution?) can this last to - say - 10 years reliably? * Solid state drive / storage. Sure if you scale it, it will be expensive. But if you don't need that much data to backup, it can be cheaper than tape, since the low overhead. And its longevity seems promising, considering no moving parts; certainly seems better than hard disk. And when you said to take a look in 5 years, the cost most likely will be down much more by then. And several caveat I think should be point out: * With tape, except for few (or just LTO?) open standard, each manufacturer have their own tape format; so there is a risk - especially for long term backup - that your tapes ended up unreadable if the manufacturer stop producing the drive. Might need to chose "winning" brand. * Is there any study on hard disk data longevity when it just sitting not turned on for long time? If not, then it may only viable for "connected" backup. And about your presentation: * Why "Genealogy", "example scheme", and "what can we recover" under the subsection "Tape vs Disk"? This seems to be more appropriate under "What?" or "When?". Thanks! -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 00:27:39 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 20:27:39 -0400 Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: <4A1326D5.7040302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <722741.88644.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba@mail.gmail.com> <494887.57727.qm@web59501.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <92ee967a0905191009m5704da03ic61fb2f16ab60181@mail.gmail.com> <4A1326D5.7040302@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 5:38 PM, James Knott wrote: >> The problem is that my landlord doesn't want us using cell phones for >> buzzing people into the building. ?He already knows my cell phone >> number. ?So, rather than giving him the *72 argument, I figured I'd >> just give him a cheapo voip number and forward it up anyway. ?Worst >> case, the voip is down and people have to call my cell direct for me >> to walk down to open the door. >> > > Why doesn't he like cell phones? This provides a "security exploit" in that you can let people into the building without your actually being there. It doesn't seem like a terribly *big* security exploit to me, but that seems like something that one could find a way to abuse. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html P. J. O'Rourke - "Never fight an inanimate object." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/p_j_orourke.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 01:57:38 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:57:38 -0400 Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <722741.88644.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba@mail.gmail.com> <494887.57727.qm@web59501.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <92ee967a0905191009m5704da03ic61fb2f16ab60181@mail.gmail.com> <4A1326D5.7040302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880905191857w6205160en98b4592226267b05@mail.gmail.com> the funny thing is u can use follow me settings and forward it to your cellphone On 5/19/09, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 5:38 PM, James Knott wrote: >>> The problem is that my landlord doesn't want us using cell phones for >>> buzzing people into the building. ?He already knows my cell phone >>> number. ?So, rather than giving him the *72 argument, I figured I'd >>> just give him a cheapo voip number and forward it up anyway. ?Worst >>> case, the voip is down and people have to call my cell direct for me >>> to walk down to open the door. >>> >> >> Why doesn't he like cell phones? > > This provides a "security exploit" in that you can let people into the > building without your actually being there. > > It doesn't seem like a terribly *big* security exploit to me, but that > seems like something that one could find a way to abuse. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > P. J. O'Rourke - "Never fight an inanimate object." - > http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/p_j_orourke.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 02:20:00 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 22:20:00 -0400 Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880905191857w6205160en98b4592226267b05-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <722741.88644.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba@mail.gmail.com> <494887.57727.qm@web59501.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <92ee967a0905191009m5704da03ic61fb2f16ab60181@mail.gmail.com> <4A1326D5.7040302@rogers.com> <32f6a8880905191857w6205160en98b4592226267b05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A1368D0.1040300@gmail.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > the funny thing is u can use follow me settings and forward it to your cellphone shhh! :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 07:34:46 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 03:34:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Moblin, anyone? In-Reply-To: <4A12DF6F.3050907-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A12DF6F.3050907@telly.org> Message-ID: | From: Evan Leibovitch | Does anyone here have any experience with the Moblin project | (http://moblin.org/)? Now that it's shifted focus from MIDs to netbooks | and has the Linux Foundation (as well as Novell and of course Intel) | behind it, the resulting system looks like a viable alternative to | Ubuntu Netbook Remix. The interface does not look useful to me. But I haven't tried it. Hey, I don't like my Nokia N800's interface much. Not that it is bad, just that it doesn't feel right for my (idiosyncratic) usage. | I'm looking at the possibility of dual-booting the latest release of | Moblin (V2.0beta2) with the UNR on my EeePC. Has anyone else tried this? I just read: beware of the ISO it will wipe your disk without confirmation http://www.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2009-05-19.html (He's one of the developers.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 07:37:40 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 03:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: interesting analysis of minimal Fedora disk usage Message-ID: He shows where all 225MB goes and how to cut it down to 38MB. http://rwmj.wordpress.com/2009/03/20/why-minimal-is-225-mb/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 07:44:53 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 03:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: glibc fork, to some extent Message-ID: EGLIBC is a fork of GLIBC. Except it intends to track GLIBC. So I don't know how forky it will be. Debian is switching the EGLIBC. One major cause seems to be Ulrich D's prickliness. This does not seem stable. No, not UD's prickliness -- that seems stable. I mean the fork, sort of, status. It will be interesting to see where it goes in, say, the next year. http://blog.aurel32.net/?p=47 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 11:50:06 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 07:50:06 -0400 Subject: SouthEast LinuxFest Clemson, SC 13 June 2009 Message-ID: <1242820206.26622.382.camel@leon> Hi all, Register now for SouthEast LinuxFest in Clemson, SC. I enjoy conferences. I don't always know in advance what the best thing will be about each conference, but there is always something. Gnu/Linux make the choice to attend really easy. I've now been to almost half a dozen Ohio LinuxFests, SCaLE, LinuxWorld, FOSSLC Summercamp, and a couple of Ontario Linux Fests and each one has delivered a great time. You should go to more Linux conferences, meet more people, share ideas and connect with the community. >From their web site: The SouthEast LinuxFest is a community event for anyone who wants to learn more about Linux and Free & Open Source software. It is part educational conference, and part social gathering. Like Linux itself, it is shared with attendees of all skill levels to communicate tips, ideas, and to benefit all who use Linux/Free and Open Source Software. LinuxFest is the place to learn, to make new friends, to network with new business partners, and most importantly, to have fun! Scheduled presentations http://southeastlinuxfest.org/?q=node/88 Register in advance http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/?q=my_module/form -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 11:50:23 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 07:50:23 -0400 Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880905191857w6205160en98b4592226267b05-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <722741.88644.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba@mail.gmail.com> <494887.57727.qm@web59501.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <92ee967a0905191009m5704da03ic61fb2f16ab60181@mail.gmail.com> <4A1326D5.7040302@rogers.com> <32f6a8880905191857w6205160en98b4592226267b05@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A13EE7F.4030504@rogers.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > the funny thing is u can use follow me settings and forward it to your cellphone > > I do the opposite. Unanswered calls to my cell phone go to my home phone. If someone calling either number leaves a voice mail, a message is sent to my cell phone. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 13:49:37 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:49:37 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - ODF Alliance Tests Microsoft Office 2007 SP2 ODF Support - Finds Serious Shortcomings Message-ID: <4A140A71.9040300@rogers.com> Here's an interesting article about Microsoft ODF support. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2009051922175320 -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 14:15:57 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:15:57 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - ODF Alliance Tests Microsoft Office 2007 SP2 ODF Support - Finds Serious Shortcomings In-Reply-To: <4A140A71.9040300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A140A71.9040300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A14109D.7030909@telly.org> James Knott wrote: > Here's an interesting article about Microsoft ODF support. > > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2009051922175320 > > Part of the problem is that ODF left certain parts of the format unspecified and Microsoft exploited that deficiency. Apparently there is no formal ODF spec for spreadsheet formulas, which frankly to me seems like a very serious flaw. Microsoft is able to produce an ODF spreadsheet that is completely incompatible with, say, OpenOffice Calc, while still maintaining compliance with the spec. IOW, interoperability in theory but not practice. Some observers suggest that this is just standard practice for Microsoft, which essentially did the same thing with POSIX a decade or two ago. However, arguably Microsoft has a point in asserting that the ODF spec has flaws, and its exploitation of the flaws appears to be solid evidence. It is not completely true that the current problems indicate a lack of MS support for ODF. What MS is not supporting are the non-standard implementations -- for things like spreadsheet formulas -- found in OpenOffice and other apps. In this case the Excel extensions of the spec are no less "legitimate" than the OOoCalc extensions. Having said that, there are far more vendor-specific flaws in OOXML -- but that's not what's at issue here. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 14:43:32 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:43:32 -0400 Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <722741.88644.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba@mail.gmail.com> <494887.57727.qm@web59501.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <92ee967a0905191009m5704da03ic61fb2f16ab60181@mail.gmail.com> <4A1326D5.7040302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090520144331.GJ21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 08:27:39PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > This provides a "security exploit" in that you can let people into the > building without your actually being there. > > It doesn't seem like a terribly *big* security exploit to me, but that > seems like something that one could find a way to abuse. Not that call forwarding your home phone to your cell phone doesn't do the same thing, so the argument is invalid. Next they have to ban call forwarding too. Try asking them about that. Lots of people have only a cell phone and use that to buzz in people, or to let themselves in if they forgot their key or something. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 14:51:56 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:51:56 -0400 Subject: Slides from May talk now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090520145155.GK21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 06:23:35PM -0400, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Thanks Rob! Make feel more unfortunate not be able to come. :-) > > Few questions I have in mind; sorry if these questions already came up in > the talk before. > > For home purpose and probably small businesses, they may want to take a > look at other solutions which are cheaper or at least less overhead cost: > > * Archival grade (so called medical grade) CD-R and DVD-R. Yes we know > that "100 years CD" is just myth and that many cheap CD-R & DVD-R does > not even last a year; but how about this archival grade stuff (and where > we can get it in Canada, anyway)? With good error correction mechanism > (any good open source solution?) can this last to - say - 10 years > reliably? Package: dvdisaster Priority: optional Section: otherosfs Installed-Size: 832 Maintainer: Daniel Baumann Architecture: i386 Version: 0.70.3-2 Depends: libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.12.2), libc6 (>= 2.3.6-6), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.4.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.8.0), libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.14.8), libx11-6, libxcursor1 (>> 1.1.2), libxext6, libxfixes3 (>= 1:4.0.1), libxi6, libxinerama1,libxrandr2, libxrender1 Recommends: dvdisaster-doc Filename: pool/main/d/dvdisaster/dvdisaster_0.70.3-2_i386.deb Size: 274046 MD5sum: 3351bfe1e609942f5839e893ebaefebc SHA1: c0b243812258375ea600b048a1a2d960d2fecf97 SHA256: 34c7604fc8a768ca94d08bb36cbdbf61c427951670b3d9dc438294b972de5b48 Description: data loss/scratch/aging protection for CD/DVD media dvdisaster provides a margin of safety against data loss on CD and DVD media caused by scratches or aging media. It creates error correction data which is used to recover unreadable sectors if the disc becomes damaged at a later time. Tag: uitoolkit::gtk You can span an archive across many discs and spread the error correction data too, so that it can even recover from complete loss of one or more discs in the set. > * Solid state drive / storage. Sure if you scale it, it will be > expensive. But if you don't need that much data to backup, it can be > cheaper than tape, since the low overhead. And its longevity seems > promising, considering no moving parts; certainly seems better than hard > disk. And when you said to take a look in 5 years, the cost most likely > will be down much more by then. > > And several caveat I think should be point out: > > * With tape, except for few (or just LTO?) open standard, each > manufacturer have their own tape format; so there is a risk - especially > for long term backup - that your tapes ended up unreadable if the > manufacturer stop producing the drive. Might need to chose "winning" > brand. I think LTO is that choice these days. I believe sony has announced recently that they are discontinuing development of AIT (and SAIT) and switching to LTO as well. LTO always promisses that drives can write the previous generation and read the two previous generations (or more), and each generation seems to come out every 3 years or so. Being linear also means much less wear on the tape than helical scan tapes. They are also very fast and seem very reliable. > * Is there any study on hard disk data longevity when it just sitting > not turned on for long time? If not, then it may only viable for > "connected" backup. Good question. > And about your presentation: > > * Why "Genealogy", "example scheme", and "what can we recover" under the > subsection "Tape vs Disk"? This seems to be more appropriate under > "What?" or "When?". Well both tape and disk are magnetic so they probably have similar issues although the tape media could degrade over time perhaps, while bearings in the disk could seize. Who knows. I think the real answer is that you always keep at least 3 copies, and every 5 to 10 years you transfer everything to new technology so that your archives are never very old. At least with digital data you can do that, with analog that was much harder. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 15:05:09 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:05:09 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - ODF Alliance Tests Microsoft Office 2007 SP2 ODF Support - Finds Serious Shortcomings In-Reply-To: <4A14109D.7030909-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A140A71.9040300@rogers.com> <4A14109D.7030909@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090520150509.GL21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:15:57AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Part of the problem is that ODF left certain parts of the format > unspecified and Microsoft exploited that deficiency. Apparently there is > no formal ODF spec for spreadsheet formulas, which frankly to me seems > like a very serious flaw. Microsoft is able to produce an ODF > spreadsheet that is completely incompatible with, say, OpenOffice Calc, > while still maintaining compliance with the spec. Except they managed to not be fully compliant with the spec. > IOW, interoperability in theory but not practice. Some observers suggest > that this is just standard practice for Microsoft, which essentially did > the same thing with POSIX a decade or two ago. Absolutely. Just compliant enough to get the checklist item the US government required at the time, and once that item was removed, the next version of windows dropped it (so I think NT4 was the last posix "compliant" version). > However, arguably Microsoft has a point in asserting that the ODF spec > has flaws, and its exploitation of the flaws appears to be solid > evidence. It is not completely true that the current problems indicate a > lack of MS support for ODF. What MS is not supporting are the > non-standard implementations -- for things like spreadsheet formulas -- > found in OpenOffice and other apps. In this case the Excel extensions of > the spec are no less "legitimate" than the OOoCalc extensions. They also didn't support password protection which IS in the spec among other things. > Having said that, there are far more vendor-specific flaws in OOXML -- > but that's not what's at issue here. Yep, that's something else. No one currently implements that "standard". -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 15:55:25 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 15:55:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? References: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> <4A0F0F7D.6030602@rogers.com> <4A0F5381.7050905@rogers.com> Message-ID: I do not know how exactly the complaint angle works in Canada, but in general, the ham radio community is best equipped (!!) to both detect and record the interference and report it. This is true in most countries, and likely also in Canada. A quick google search for the words: 'radio amateurs of canada rfi interference reporting' Brings up numerous relevant links that point further. Elsewhere I would call up one of the local hams, tell him what the problem is, and after a number of phone-calls be talking either to a knowledgeable engineer or to the local ham club or something equivalent and they would be very helpful, and have the complaint address handy. In the US the ham community is trying to stop broadband over powerlines using similar arguments now, as far as I can read. In any case interference must exist first, and be proven technically, or be presumed to exist. On a sideline I was just browsing surplus electronics and found some reputable external modems (from the 1990s) which had their FCC ID printed on the case, and taped over with a new FCC ID. Likely version B, and honestly reported as such. Good luck with Chinese smoke-boxes on that. In any case as things rely more and more on software to work, the open source access problem is getting worse. Example: most 802.11 wlan manufacturers do not release the source or programming information for their WiFi radios, with the result that most users must use ndiswrapper (my case too). This has nothing to do with security and such as anyone wanting to do something nefarious knows exactly what type of WiFi card to get from the internet to do that. It's just a pain in the a$$ for all the honest people who expect Debian or Fedora etc Wlan drivers to work out of the box. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 15:56:13 2009 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:56:13 -0400 Subject: Free to a good home: Compaq Deskpro EN In-Reply-To: <61371.36168.qm-/T9GddBZ1535nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <315628.55042.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20090519153450.GG21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A12D707.3060603@alteeve.com> <61371.36168.qm@web59504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A14281D.90504@ve3syb.ca> Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: > I got so use to have the case off, that I even had them off the new > computer for first little while. My old computers, still have the cases > off of them. :) One benefit to running with the cover off, it makes it a lot easier to regularly remove the accumulation of dust that computers always seem to acquire. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 16:01:34 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:01:34 -0400 Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> <4A0F0F7D.6030602@rogers.com> <4A0F5381.7050905@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A14295E.5060301@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > I do not know how exactly the complaint angle works in Canada, but in general, > the ham radio community is best equipped (!!) to both detect and record the > interference and report it. This is true in most countries, and likely also in > Canada. > As an unlicensed service, WiFi gets absolutely no protection from interference. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 16:35:31 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:35:31 -0400 Subject: openwrt: what routers just plain ***work***? In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280905140853i5de6affene25a1703036dfadf@mail.gmail.com> <4A0F0F7D.6030602@rogers.com> <4A0F5381.7050905@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A143153.6090103@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > I do not know how exactly the complaint angle works in Canada, but in general, > the ham radio community is best equipped (!!) to both detect and record the > interference and report it. This is true in most countries, and likely also in > Canada. > > A quick google search for the words: > > 'radio amateurs of canada rfi interference reporting' > > Brings up numerous relevant links that point further. Elsewhere I would call up > one of the local hams, tell him what the problem is, and after a number of > phone-calls be talking either to a knowledgeable engineer or to the local ham > club or something equivalent and they would be very helpful, and have the > complaint address handy. In the US the ham community is trying to stop broadband > over powerlines using similar arguments now, as far as I can read. > I forgot to mention this in the previous note. They are trying to stop interference to a licensed service from a service that's not allowed to interfere with licensed services. There has apparently been a bit of politics in the FCC, causing them to ignore their mandate and own rules. A court recently ruled against the FCC in this matter. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 17:07:30 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:07:30 -0400 Subject: glibc fork, to some extent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090520170730.GM21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 03:44:53AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > EGLIBC is a fork of GLIBC. Except it intends to track GLIBC. So I don't > know how forky it will be. Debian is switching the EGLIBC. > > One major cause seems to be Ulrich D's prickliness. > > This does not seem stable. No, not UD's prickliness -- that seems stable. > I mean the fork, sort of, status. It will be interesting to see where it > goes in, say, the next year. > > http://blog.aurel32.net/?p=47 Well remember egcs? That eventually became gcc from which it had forked. The gcc 2.x series died out. glibc may see the same thing happen to it if its main developers end up being as hopeless to deal with as the original gcc developers were. Once someone like debian picks it up, I don't think it is going to die. After all once debian goes there, ubuntu is quite likely to, as well mepis, knoppix, etc. Should fedora/redhat or suse go there too, then the original glibc may simply become irrelevant. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 17:57:42 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:57:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: glibc fork, to some extent In-Reply-To: <20090520170730.GM21464-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090520170730.GM21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 03:44:53AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > This does not seem stable. No, not UD's prickliness -- that seems stable. | > I mean the fork, sort of, status. It will be interesting to see where it | > goes in, say, the next year. | | Well remember egcs? That eventually became gcc from which it had forked. Quite. I meant that the system as a whole (GLIBC + fork, sort of) doesn't seem stable. I can see several possible outcomes: - EGLIBC diverges (after all, tracking is hard work and actually may reduce the value of EGLIBC). Both projects have a large enough niche to survive - EGLIBC or GLIBC ends up being where the action is. The other whithers. Note that the main GLIBC maintainers are at Redhat. This detail might matter in several ways. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 18:05:01 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 14:05:01 -0400 Subject: glibc fork, to some extent In-Reply-To: References: <20090520170730.GM21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090520180501.GN21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 01:57:42PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I meant that the system as a whole (GLIBC + fork, sort of) doesn't > seem stable. I can see several possible outcomes: > > - EGLIBC diverges (after all, tracking is hard work and actually may > reduce the value of EGLIBC). Both projects have a large enough > niche to survive Well the current goal appears to be to track glibc's sources but to include patches that upstream glibc is refusing. They appear to have no intension of forking and going their own way entirely. > - EGLIBC or GLIBC ends up being where the action is. The other > whithers. Well as long as eglibc is tracking glibc it would be in everyones interest to get as many patches as possible moved into glibc just to keep the differences minimal. That goal might keep both going just fine, and who knows some day the need for eglibc might go away. > Note that the main GLIBC maintainers are at Redhat. This detail might > matter in several ways. Perhaps. I suppose they might some day care about something other than desktops and servers on x86, in which case they might fire the uncooporative maintainer. Unfortunately redhat doesn't seem at all interested in other markets. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 20:31:22 2009 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 16:31:22 -0400 Subject: Groklaw - ODF Alliance Tests Microsoft Office 2007 SP2 ODF Support - Finds Serious Shortcomings In-Reply-To: <4A140A71.9040300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A140A71.9040300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A14689A.9040009@golden.net> James Knott wrote: > Here's an interesting article about Microsoft ODF support. > > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2009051922175320 > > This is a prime example of embrace, extend ..... extinguish. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 20 23:08:41 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 16:08:41 -0700 Subject: Free to a good home: Compaq Deskpro EN In-Reply-To: <315628.55042.qm-gRJVcx+G6WWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <315628.55042.qm@web51812.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0905201608n41ff3a85t20c6f3d27f715683@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:16 AM, Salman Ahmed wrote: > > I have a non-functioning Compaq Deskpro EN SFF (small form factor) PC that might be of use to someone who can fix it. This PC has a dead or damaged PSU - either it can be repaired or replaced. > > This PC had been running Debian perfectly for a few months until about two weeks ago when a power fluctuation knocked it out. I now regret not having it on a UPS. > > Googling for this type of problem revealed that it is a "Power Supply Crow Bar" which means that the PSU has died. However, since this SFF PC uses a non-standard PSU I can't be bothered to look for a replacement. > > The PC's specs are: PIII 733MHz CPU, 128Mb PC100 SD-RAM, CD-ROM drive, built-in 10/100 NIC, built-in VGA (or SVGA) graphics, >= 2 USB 1.0 ports. > > This PC is being offered as is without monitor, mouse, keyboard, HDD, or any cables to anyone who can pick it up and repair it. You just need to find a replacement PSU and add an IDE HDD and you'll have a very quiet and compact PC for running Linux. > > Pickup only from near Don Mills Rd & Eglinton Ave. > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Just a thought for anyone that's interested in this and wanted to use the existing case (or if Salman wants to give it a try). The DC-DC PSU's that work for mini-ITX boards might be OK for this one, depending on how many watts the system actually uses. I know you can find them on ebay for around $50, but it might also be possible to find them somewhere around College+Spadina etc. They look like this one (not my auction, but for example) http://cgi.ebay.ca/PW-200-M-200W-DC-DC-Mini-ITX-ATX-12V-Power-Supply-PSU_W0QQitemZ120422725621QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_UPS?hash=item120422725621&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50 I have a via mini-ITX box that burned out the weird proprietary PSU. I just screwed the DC input into the outside of the case, and took old the old PSU to install a fan. Now I use it with a DC-DC PSU and a 12V brick. In my case 12V 5A was more than enough for my little machine, but again I'm not sure how much this one might draw. Being that it is apparently a "mini" board it might be low-consumption as well? - TJA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 21 05:14:50 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 01:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: why you should not buy a Dell Mini 10 Message-ID: http://www.hadess.net/2009/05/dell-mini-10-gah.html The Dell Mini 9 is better, I think. At least the X video driver is open source. (Bonus: no fan!) The Dell Mini 10v is more like the 9 than the 10, I understand. What a confusing mess. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 21 14:24:39 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Slides from May talk now available In-Reply-To: <20090520145155.GK21464-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090520145155.GK21464@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 May 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Package: dvdisaster Thanks! I was looking for this the other day but cannot remember the name. Given that - as in my original question - how is the feasibility of archival grade (so called medical grade) CD-R and DVD-R as backup & archiving solution? And where can we find those kind of CD-R and DVD-R in GTA anyway? > You can span an archive across many discs and spread the error > correction data too, so that it can even recover from complete > loss of one or more discs in the set. Probably useful as well if doubled with dvdisaster above (in months or years it is more likely to have all the disks in various states of corruptions). And how about solid state drive / storage (i.e. external flash memories)? > although the tape media could degrade over time perhaps, while > bearings in the disk could seize. True, I guess this is one important advantage of tape as backup media. I think tape is reliable over time not because they never have data loss / corriuption - they do - but because it happens gradually and the rate is known, so the manufacturer can just incorporate an error correction mechanism to compensate that degradation. I guess hard disk as backup solution should be done in RAID (1, 5, 6). Probably can be added to the presentation slide as well. -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri May 22 02:04:16 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 22:04:16 -0400 Subject: submit info on why floss is good - to Vancouver .. re: CBC article Message-ID: <20090521220416.67ed81ed.tleslie@tcn.net> The City of Vancouver is inviting the public to provide feedback on this motion. The motion calls for the city to endorse the principles of: * Making data open and accessible by sharing as much of it as possible while respecting privacy and security concerns. * Adopting open standards for data, documents, maps and other media. * Placing open source software on equal footing with "commercial systems." http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/05/19/tech-open-city-vancouver-standards-source-data-reimer.html I would love to email them, but it got me thinking about a previous thread on this list, can't remember specifically, but it had people on the list quickly trying to submit a pro-floss document to someone (to lazy to check back in email), so anyways, this is probably something where the TLUG should submit (as a whole?), and perhaps people can pull great stuff out of the last similar exercise? I am sure, given this is on CBC, and linux today . com many on the list will be striking up emails on it. Hopefully, they (politicians) are serious, and this can go somewhere. Gonna go read some of the comments on the CBC forum at bottom if it, seems to be a popular article, well maybe not a popular as the Mulroney inquiry! it also says in the article (have not read it all but) "So far, she said, only a few other cities such as Washington, D.C., San Francisco and Toronto have started moving toward this kind of increased openness." What i miss? what is toronto doing on this front? moving maybe? but not actually there? -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 22 03:09:31 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 23:09:31 -0400 Subject: submit info on why floss is good - to Vancouver .. re: CBC article In-Reply-To: <20090521220416.67ed81ed.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20090521220416.67ed81ed.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0905212009j707c1b3evd64b5c4327740eef@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 10:04 PM, ted leslie wrote: > > The City of Vancouver is inviting the public to provide feedback on this motion. > > The motion calls for the city to endorse the principles of: > > ? ?* Making data open and accessible by sharing as much of it as possible while respecting privacy and security concerns. > ? ?* Adopting open standards for data, documents, maps and other media. > ? ?* Placing open source software on equal footing with "commercial systems." > > > http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/05/19/tech-open-city-vancouver-standards-source-data-reimer.html > > > I would love to email them, but it got me thinking about a previous thread on this list, can't remember specifically, > but it had people on the list quickly trying to submit a pro-floss document to someone (to lazy to check back in email), > so anyways, this is probably something where the TLUG should submit (as a whole?), and perhaps people can > pull great stuff out of the last similar exercise? > > I am sure, given this is on CBC, and linux today . com > many on the list will be striking up emails on it. > Hopefully, they (politicians) are serious, and this can go somewhere. Sounds like it's in progress: http://eaves.ca/2009/05/14/vancouver-enters-the-age-of-the-open-city/ http://bit.ly/13e6a0 > Gonna go read some of the comments on the CBC forum at bottom if it, seems to be a popular article, > well maybe not a popular as the Mulroney inquiry! > > it also says in the article (have not read it all but) > > "So far, she said, only a few other cities such as Washington, D.C., San Francisco and Toronto have started moving toward this kind of increased openness." > What i miss? what is toronto doing on this front? moving maybe? but not actually there? The writeup from David Eaves contains the motion (which was apparently accepted today) and this quote: "A number of us having been working hard getting this motion into place. While several cities, like Portland, Washington DC, and Toronto, have pursued some of the ideas outlined in this motion, none have codified or been as comprehensive and explicit in their intention. I certainly see this motion as the cornerstone to transforming Vancouver into a open city, or as my friend Surman puts it, a city that thinks like the web." On a related note, Open Web Vancouver 2009 will be running June 11th and 12th: http://www.openwebvancouver.ca/ http://bit.ly/d7Hq6 Bet that'll be a great party. :-) Congrats to Vancouver! -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 22 03:20:58 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 23:20:58 -0400 Subject: submit info on why floss is good - to Vancouver .. re: CBC article In-Reply-To: <20090521220416.67ed81ed.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20090521220416.67ed81ed.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0905212020g7bc72682se1a601d3e5845a5d@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 10:04 PM, ted leslie wrote: > I would love to email them, but it got me thinking about a previous thread on this list, can't remember specifically, > but it had people on the list quickly trying to submit a pro-floss document to someone (to lazy to check back in email), Heh, b0rked that the first time. This the one? "Public Works Canada solicitation about FOSS" http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/42927 -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4 at gmail.com Fri May 22 04:03:00 2009 From: psema4 at gmail.com (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 00:03:00 -0400 Subject: Video from FOSSLC's SummerCamp 2009 Message-ID: <99a6c38f0905212103q15780430t150ef11b545317aa@mail.gmail.com> I just ran across video and slides from SummerCamp 2009; thought others might find them interesting as well. Topics include: * Copyright and Open Source * A survey of Free and Open source accounting and ERP systems * Geospatial panel discussion * Open Source Geospatial Business Intelligence in action * NetBSD - The project, the code, the people. * To Wiki or not to Wiki? Why not TikiWiki - More than a Wiki * Open Source Game Development * Introduction to Git and GitHub * Introduction to OpenStreetMap http://www.fosslc.org/drupal/videos -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 From denver at ossguy.com Fri May 22 12:11:48 2009 From: denver at ossguy.com (Denver Gingerich) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 08:11:48 -0400 Subject: Video from FOSSLC's SummerCamp 2009 In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0905212103q15780430t150ef11b545317aa@mail.gmail.com> References: <99a6c38f0905212103q15780430t150ef11b545317aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6defe8840905220511u2e5f23aere7a0a970e6804e6c@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:03 AM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I just ran across video and slides from SummerCamp 2009; thought > others might find them interesting as well. Topics include: > > ?* Copyright and Open Source > ?* A survey of Free and Open source accounting and ERP systems > ?* Geospatial panel discussion > ?* Open Source Geospatial Business Intelligence in action > ?* NetBSD - The project, the code, the people. > ?* To Wiki or not to Wiki? Why not TikiWiki - More than a Wiki > ?* Open Source Game Development > ?* Introduction to Git and GitHub > ?* Introduction to OpenStreetMap > > http://www.fosslc.org/drupal/videos They're still working on adding all the talks to that page. In the meantime, you can see all the videos here: http://hosting3.epresence.tv/fosslc/ The videos from Summercamp 2009 start at the bottom of that page (with "At a Level Crossing - FOSS Licensing Best Practices in the post Jacobsen v. Katzer era") and end on page 5 (with "Git and GitHub"). I presented one of the talks at Summercamp 2009, entitled "DVDs, MP3s, YouTube, and other hindrances to free software". I've posted the original slides (in HTML) and videos in Ogg Theora and Vorbis on my blog: http://ossguy.com/?p=365 The HD (1440x1080) version of the talk has enough clarity for you to see the slide text. The ePresence page misses some slide transitions so it is somewhat less useful. It is also Flash-encumbered. If you have any questions about my talk, please let me know. I would be happy to discuss them. Denver http://ossguy.com/ From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 22 15:57:59 2009 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 11:57:59 -0400 Subject: Workshop on Open Source Audio/Video Tools Message-ID: <1243007879.3993.39.camel@jimslaptop> Thought this would be of interest to people on the list. Also it's the last day to get Early Bird passes to the festival. Since the theme is Networks I figured some of you would be interested. Jim Subtle Technologies Presents: 2 day Introductory Workshop on Open Source Audio/Video Tools Presented in partnership with The Ontario College of Art and Design. June 10th and 11th, Ontario College of Art and Design What you will learn: * record both audio and video * mixing techniques to combine various media format * apply real time visual and audio effects * streaming techniques to allow a participant to create their own online radio station * fundamentals of Pure Data, a ?real time? visual programming environment for audio, video, and graphical processing http://puredata.info/ * using devices such as wii , joysticks , mouse and keyboard as controllers * controlling systems over a network using remote control protocols * collaborative performance techniques. Who should take this workshop: Artists, VJs, Djs, musicians, programmers , designers, architects, technicians , open source enthusiasts , or anyone who is interested in exploring new media technologies. Tools: The participant will get a copy of the APODIO Linux bootable CD which will allow them to bring home all the tools learned in the workshop. This CD allows you to run the programs without having to modify the operating system on your computer. A computer will be available for use in the workshop or participants can bring their own laptop. Workshop Instructor: The workshop is being led by Julien Ottavi. http://www.noiser.org/noise/doku.php Julien is a mediactivist, artist-researcher, musician, poet and tongues destroyer, experimental film maker and an architect, founder and member of apo33, Julien Ottavi is involved in research and creative work, combining sound art, real-time video, new technologies and construction of electronic devices. He is co-director of the Area10Medialab in London and participates in, and produces, numerous events such as conventions of researchers, artists and activists, sound art or multimedia festivals, workshops on free software and DIY electronics, etc. Since 1997, he has developed a composition work on the voice and its transformation by computer. Active developer of audio/visual programs with Puredata, he has also developed DIY electronics (radio transmitters, oscillators, mixers, amplifiers, video transmitters?etc) in the perspective of knowledge sharing on technological development. Main developer for the Gnu/Linux operating system APODIO for digital art and A/V & streaming manipulation, his practices is not limited to the art spheres but crosses different fields from technological development to philosophy research, biomimetic analysis & experimentation. For many years he has reflected on the relations between experimental practices and collective practices within the creation of autonomous collective groups, putting in question the authorship strategy of the ?art ideology?. For information on registration please check out our website at http://www.subtletechnologies.com -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 22 19:55:42 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 15:55:42 -0400 Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? Message-ID: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've been using kate for some time now, but I've found that since the last few distro versions it has gotten slow as heck. I've got a 2.1GHz CPU and 2GB of RAM and it can take several seconds just to have things like switching between files, opening dialogs and such. I am wondering if running a KDE app under Gnome is to blame or if it's changes in the KDE system, but it's barely usable these days. Can anyone recommend an equivalent? All I really care about is an editor that supports a list of open files (on the left, preferably) with syntax highlighting. I'm pretty simple that way. Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 22 20:09:27 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 16:09:27 -0400 Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? In-Reply-To: <4A17033E.4070609-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0905221309u3c40dec7r6c206e9d945c68f9@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > ?I am wondering if running a KDE app under Gnome is to blame or if it's > changes in the KDE system, but it's barely usable these days. Can anyone > recommend an equivalent? > > ?All I really care about is an editor that supports a list of open files (on > the left, preferably) with syntax highlighting. I'm pretty simple that way. I've been using Geany lately. It's not perfect but meets your criteria. YMMV of course. http://www.geany.org/ -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 22 20:34:05 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 16:34:05 -0400 Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0905221309u3c40dec7r6c206e9d945c68f9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com> <99a6c38f0905221309u3c40dec7r6c206e9d945c68f9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A170C3D.8070903@utoronto.ca> Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: >> I am wondering if running a KDE app under Gnome is to blame or if it's >> changes in the KDE system, but it's barely usable these days. Can anyone >> recommend an equivalent? >> >> All I really care about is an editor that supports a list of open files (on >> the left, preferably) with syntax highlighting. I'm pretty simple that way. > > I've been using Geany lately. It's not perfect but meets your > criteria. YMMV of course. I'm still a vim fan, slowly learning emacs. But a lot of the developers I work with have recently started using Aptana, which is, from what I can tell, a gutted and hence usable? version of eclipse. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri May 22 20:41:40 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 16:41:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? In-Reply-To: <4A17033E.4070609-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 May 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been using kate for some time now, but I've found that since the last > few distro versions it has gotten slow as heck. I've got a 2.1GHz CPU and 2GB > of RAM and it can take several seconds just to have things like switching > between files, opening dialogs and such. > > I am wondering if running a KDE app under Gnome is to blame or if it's > changes in the KDE system, but it's barely usable these days. Can anyone > recommend an equivalent? > > All I really care about is an editor that supports a list of open files (on > the left, preferably) with syntax highlighting. I'm pretty simple that way. GNU Emacs. You can split the frame (emacs-speak for an X window) into windows vertically or horizontally, size each window as you like it, and have a buffer list displayed in either one. (You can split it into more windows if you like.) -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 22 20:55:01 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 16:55:01 -0400 Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? In-Reply-To: <4A17033E.4070609-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090522205501.GA21314@yam.witteman.ca> I only use vim, but looking at the results of 'apt-cache search text editor' I came across medit. I installed it, and it looks quite good - loads really fast, has a file browser that you can drag around within the window (so it's initial appearance on the right should not deter you), it changes from one file to another instantly and it has Perl syntax highlighting, whose absence would be a deal-breaker for you (unless you are a different Madison). It seemed to have no dependencies other than what was already on my system (not very much), which I always like to see - less likely to be a problem on multiple machines. Good luck on your search, and let us know what you settle on - one day I may need a similar tool. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 22 20:59:41 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 16:59:41 -0400 Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? In-Reply-To: <4A17033E.4070609-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4A17123D.10408@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been using kate for some time now, but I've found that since > the last few distro versions it has gotten slow as heck. I've got a > 2.1GHz CPU and 2GB of RAM and it can take several seconds just to have > things like switching between files, opening dialogs and such. > > I am wondering if running a KDE app under Gnome is to blame or if > it's changes in the KDE system, but it's barely usable these days. Can > anyone recommend an equivalent? > Cream (which is a gui on top of vim) ? http://cream.sourceforge.net/features.html It should be in the Ubuntu repositories. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri May 22 23:39:52 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 19:39:52 -0400 Subject: City of Vancouver embraces open data, standards and source Message-ID: <4A1737C8.5030503@telly.org> http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/05/22/tech-vancouver-open-source-standards-software-city.html - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sat May 23 00:17:44 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 20:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: City of Vancouver embraces open data, standards and source In-Reply-To: <4A1737C8.5030503-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A1737C8.5030503@telly.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 May 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/05/22/tech-vancouver-open-source-standards-software-city.html I forwarded the first paragraph and the link to my city councillor, asking whether she would support (or even push for) a similar policy in Toronto. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 23 02:13:50 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 22:13:50 -0400 Subject: City of Vancouver embraces open data, standards and source In-Reply-To: References: <4A1737C8.5030503@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A175BDE.5060208@rogers.com> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 22 May 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > >> http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/05/22/tech-vancouver-open-source-standards-software-city.html >> > > I forwarded the first paragraph and the link to my city > councillor, asking whether she would support (or even push for) a > similar policy in Toronto. > > I also forwarded it to my councilor and Hazel. to see if Mississauga will follow suit. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 23 03:18:52 2009 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 23:18:52 -0400 Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? In-Reply-To: <4A17033E.4070609-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1243048732.25571.1316847739@webmail.messagingengine.com> I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned gedit; it's the official text editor for GNOME, and as far as I know it's the closest equivalent to Kate under GNOME. For better or worse, and never having taken a liking to either vim or emacs (I originally came to Linux from the Mac and Windows GUI world), this is the text editor I use most often. While it may not be obvious at first, gedit can be turned into quite a powerful and pleasant editor to use via its plugin architecture, and many plugins are available. None of the plugins are enabled by default, however, so in order to use them you must explicitly enable the ones you want through the Preferences dialog (Edit > Preferences > Plugins). One of the available plugins is File Browser Pane, which shows a list of currently open files, exactly the way you mentioned - and yes, it appears on the left, within gedit's Side Pane, which you can open via View > Side Pane or by pressing F9. Syntax highlighting is also supported, and the list of supported languages is extensive. On Debian-based systems anyway (including Ubuntu), several plugins, including the aforementioned File Browser Pane, Indent Lines (for indenting or unindenting a selected code range), Snippets, and Sort, are considered 'standard' and are included as part of the standard 'gedit' package. More plugins, including Character Map, Code Comment (for commenting a selected code range in or out), Smart Spaces, and Embedded Terminal, can be made available by installing the 'gedit-plugins' package as well. Your distro may have its packages set up differently, of course. Hope this helps! Amanda ----- Original message ----- From: "Madison Kelly" To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 15:55:42 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: Gnome equiv. to Kate? Hi all, I've been using kate for some time now, but I've found that since the last few distro versions it has gotten slow as heck. I've got a 2.1GHz CPU and 2GB of RAM and it can take several seconds just to have things like switching between files, opening dialogs and such. I am wondering if running a KDE app under Gnome is to blame or if it's changes in the KDE system, but it's barely usable these days. Can anyone recommend an equivalent? All I really care about is an editor that supports a list of open files (on the left, preferably) with syntax highlighting. I'm pretty simple that way. Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 23 14:32:44 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 10:32:44 -0400 Subject: Broadcasters Want Bailout Message-ID: <4A18090C.80402@rogers.com> A bit off topic, but something of interest to most. http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/AboutShaw/BroadcastersWantBailout.htm -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 23 15:21:41 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 11:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Broadcasters Want Bailout In-Reply-To: <4A18090C.80402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A18090C.80402@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | | A bit off topic, but something of interest to most. | http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/AboutShaw/BroadcastersWantBailout.htm This campaign by the networks infuriates me. For the last week, every 23:30 local news on CFTO ends with an item inviting us to an open house so they can pitch us. They say that "for over 50 years we've been giving to the community and now it is time for you to come to our support. The cable companies take our signal without paying for it." I love the word "take" -- I hope they left some signal for others. The whole network concept is based on a monopoly: there is a shortage of over-the-air channels so they get organized as networks. Cable channel slots are in much larger supply (but the cable companies themselves are a monopoly, of course). The networks could get fee-for-carriage for their signals if they dropped the over-the-air channel -- that's what the current regulations allow for. They just want it both ways. The cable companies hands are not clean in my mind. If they complain about being charged for what is free in local over-the-air, they should not be encrypting those same signals. In the US, local over-the-air signals must be carried in the clear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat May 23 15:26:21 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 11:26:21 -0400 Subject: Broadcasters Want Bailout In-Reply-To: <4A18090C.80402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A18090C.80402@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090523112621.34e2c1d3@teksavvy.com> James Knott wrote: > A bit off topic, but something of interest to most. > http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/AboutShaw/BroadcastersWantBailout.htm There hasn't been a program on TV in years that I couldn't get in better quality for free off the Internet. I don't know _anyone_ under the age of 30 who even _has_ cable, and CTV hasn't had anything on it that was of interest to anyone for probably a decade, so who the hell cares? If they didn't carry stuff like The Daily Show, I wouldn't even know they existed, and they're never going to produce anything original that's of value to anyone. For once I have to say my hat's off to the Americans, they're going in exactly the right direction with things like Hulu and NBC.com. The cable companies can kiss my ass. They had their chance and they totally blew it. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 23 15:51:33 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 11:51:33 -0400 Subject: Broadcasters Want Bailout In-Reply-To: <4A18090C.80402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A18090C.80402@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 10:32 AM, James Knott wrote: > A bit off topic, but something of interest to most. > http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/AboutShaw/BroadcastersWantBailout.htm Yeah, I have been seeing this here in Ottawa this week. The local CTV station is evidently not attracting as much ad revenue, and it looks as though they can't cover the costs of local coverage. Or at least that's the noise they're making. I'm mostly with Nassim Taleb; he declines to take in *any* TV-based news. "I tell people don't get your representation of the news from television, because it hits you in a part of your brain, and the way it hits you is much more the story than if you'd read it. And if you read it, it's much more distorting if you read words than if you're reading statistics." >From that perspective, I don't think I care if local TV news goes "the way of the dodo." It never could have been anything but distorted. But that isn't the full picture, either. If "local" coverage disappears, then people that watch TV news will be left with whatever "central" coverage remains, which may well be more biased. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html George Carlin - "Electricity is really just organized lightning." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_carlin.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 23 17:09:02 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 13:09:02 -0400 Subject: Broadcasters Want Bailout In-Reply-To: References: <4A18090C.80402@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A182DAE.1040706@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: James Knott > | > | A bit off topic, but something of interest to most. > | http://www.shaw.ca/en-ca/AboutShaw/BroadcastersWantBailout.htm > > This campaign by the networks infuriates me. For the last week, every > 23:30 local news on CFTO ends with an item inviting us to an open > house so they can pitch us. They say that "for over 50 years we've > been giving to the community and now it is time for you to come to our > support. The cable companies take our signal without paying for it." > I love the word "take" -- I hope they left some signal for others. > > They also seem to be missing the point that cable & satellite companies expand a broadcaster's audience, which should result in increase ad revenue. > The whole network concept is based on a monopoly: there is a shortage > of over-the-air channels so they get organized as networks. > I'm not sure monopoly applies here, as there are multiple players. > Cable channel slots are in much larger supply (but the cable companies > themselves are a monopoly, of course). > > The networks could get fee-for-carriage for their signals if they > dropped the over-the-air channel -- that's what the current > regulations allow for. They just want it both ways. > They also forget to mention that they're often substituted for American stations. Perhaps that should be dropped too. > The cable companies hands are not clean in my mind. If they complain > about being charged for what is free in local over-the-air, they > should not be encrypting those same signals. In the US, local > over-the-air signals must be carried in the clear. > Of course, this tax does not apply to over the air viewers, only those on cable or satellite. Seems a bit unfair to me. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat May 23 18:15:08 2009 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 14:15:08 -0400 Subject: Broadcasters Want Bailout In-Reply-To: References: <4A18090C.80402@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A183D2C.8040801@the-wire.com> Christopher Browne wrote: [ ... ] > But that isn't the full picture, either. If "local" coverage > disappears, then people that watch TV news will be left with whatever > "central" coverage remains, which may well be more biased. We'll have to fill the gap with blogs like Steve Munro's, and YouTube. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat May 23 18:28:29 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 14:28:29 -0400 Subject: Broadcasters Want Bailout In-Reply-To: <4A182DAE.1040706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A18090C.80402@rogers.com> <4A182DAE.1040706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A18404D.7050309@telly.org> Even in Toronto they're crying poverty. Here's a news report about a very successful "open house" held by CTV today, staged to help explain the network's precarious situation. I wonder how they'll explain how CTV is apparently in so much peril that it recently bought up the CityTV stations. And this news report about CTV's successful campaign comes from... http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090523/open_house_090523/20090523/?hub=TorontoNewHome The open house may still be open. It's at the venerable old Channel Nine studios at McCowan and the 401... the last time I was there was to be in the audience at tapings of the Super Dave show. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 23 19:12:24 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 15:12:24 -0400 Subject: City of Vancouver embraces open data, standards and source In-Reply-To: <4A175BDE.5060208-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A1737C8.5030503@telly.org> <4A175BDE.5060208@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0905231212k79c174ep809f7a03a3ff15ac@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 10:13 PM, James Knott wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> On Fri, 22 May 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> >> >>> http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/05/22/tech-vancouver-open-source-standards-software-city.html >>> >> >> ? ? I forwarded the first paragraph and the link to my city >> ? ? councillor, asking whether she would support (or even push for) a >> ? ? similar policy in Toronto. >> >> > I also forwarded it to my councilor and Hazel. to see if Mississauga > will follow suit. Just finished recovering from a blown PSU; I'll be following up in Hamilton on Monday. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 23 23:15:49 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 19:15:49 -0400 Subject: Broadcasters Want Bailout In-Reply-To: <4A18404D.7050309-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A18090C.80402@rogers.com> <4A182DAE.1040706@rogers.com> <4A18404D.7050309@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A1883A5.2030509@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Even in Toronto they're crying poverty. > > Here's a news report about a very successful "open house" held by CTV > today, staged to help explain the network's precarious situation. I > wonder how they'll explain how CTV is apparently in so much peril that > it recently bought up the CityTV stations. > I don't know the details, but they only got some of them. CityPulse News is owned by CTV, but I don't think CityTV is. IIRC, Rogers owns CityTV. Hmmm... I wonder what the CityTV position is on that tax? BTW, a few weeks ago, they started putting CTV news on CityPulse and then carrying the whole mess to CHUM AM, which used to play oldies. So, one of the first things they did, after buying those stations, was to cut content. > And this news report about CTV's successful campaign comes from... > http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090523/open_house_090523/20090523/?hub=TorontoNewHome > > The open house may still be open. It's at the venerable old Channel Nine > studios at McCowan and the 401... the last time I was there was to be in > the audience at tapings of the Super Dave show. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon May 25 02:25:41 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 22:25:41 -0400 Subject: Slow tranfers to USB drive Message-ID: <20090524222541.764edc22@teksavvy.com> I'm seeing very slow transfer speeds to my USB2 multimedia drive. It's down to about 1MB/s right now, which is pretty painful. All other USB2 devices like my thumb drive are 'normal', ie. I usually see about 10 MB/s, give or take. Is it possible that this one drive (fat32) is becoming fragmented, and this is impacting the transfer speeds? If this is a potential cause, how would I go about defragmenting a fat32 drive without access to Windows? -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 25 05:07:14 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 22:07:14 -0700 Subject: Slow tranfers to USB drive In-Reply-To: <20090524222541.764edc22-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090524222541.764edc22@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <65C1C5BE-CE5D-494B-A901-7E6F0EA7EF64@gmail.com> just out of curiousity, why use FAT32 if you're not using it with a windows box? (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 24-May-09, at 7:25 PM, JoeHill wrote: > > I'm seeing very slow transfer speeds to my USB2 multimedia drive. > It's down to > about 1MB/s right now, which is pretty painful. All other USB2 > devices like my > thumb drive are 'normal', ie. I usually see about 10 MB/s, give or > take. > > Is it possible that this one drive (fat32) is becoming fragmented, > and this is > impacting the transfer speeds? If this is a potential cause, how > would I go > about defragmenting a fat32 drive without access to Windows? > > -- > J > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon May 25 05:33:46 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 01:33:46 -0400 Subject: Slow tranfers to USB drive In-Reply-To: <65C1C5BE-CE5D-494B-A901-7E6F0EA7EF64-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090524222541.764edc22@teksavvy.com> <65C1C5BE-CE5D-494B-A901-7E6F0EA7EF64@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 1:07 AM, Aviss,Tyler wrote: > just out of curiousity, why use FAT32 if you're not using it with a windows > box? It's a multimedia drive that can play video files out to TV. It has to be either NTFS or FAT. > (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) > > On 24-May-09, at 7:25 PM, JoeHill wrote: > >> >> I'm seeing very slow transfer speeds to my USB2 multimedia drive. It's >> down to >> about 1MB/s right now, which is pretty painful. All other USB2 devices >> like my >> thumb drive are 'normal', ie. I usually see about 10 MB/s, give or take. >> >> Is it possible that this one drive (fat32) is becoming fragmented, and >> this is >> impacting the transfer speeds? If this is a potential cause, how would I >> go >> about defragmenting a fat32 drive without access to Windows? >> >> -- >> J >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 25 17:24:08 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 13:24:08 -0400 Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? In-Reply-To: <1243048732.25571.1316847739-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com> <1243048732.25571.1316847739@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4A1AD438.50403@alteeve.com> I took a second look at 'gedit', and it seems a lot further on than last time I looked. Do you know if there is a "session manager" plugin for it? If there is, I think it will do the job perfectly. I work on a few different projects and often switch between them to snag code. Having an option to say "open files for project X" and have it remember what files I last had open in that project is one of my favourite features of kate. Madi Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned gedit; it's the official text > editor for GNOME, and as far as I know it's the closest equivalent to > Kate under GNOME. For better or worse, and never having taken a liking > to either vim or emacs (I originally came to Linux from the Mac and > Windows GUI world), this is the text editor I use most often. > > While it may not be obvious at first, gedit can be turned into quite a > powerful and pleasant editor to use via its plugin architecture, and > many plugins are available. None of the plugins are enabled by default, > however, so in order to use them you must explicitly enable the ones you > want through the Preferences dialog (Edit > Preferences > Plugins). One > of the available plugins is File Browser Pane, which shows a list of > currently open files, exactly the way you mentioned - and yes, it > appears on the left, within gedit's Side Pane, which you can open via > View > Side Pane or by pressing F9. Syntax highlighting is also > supported, and the list of supported languages is extensive. > > On Debian-based systems anyway (including Ubuntu), several plugins, > including the aforementioned File Browser Pane, Indent Lines (for > indenting or unindenting a selected code range), Snippets, and Sort, are > considered 'standard' and are included as part of the standard 'gedit' > package. More plugins, including Character Map, Code Comment (for > commenting a selected code range in or out), Smart Spaces, and Embedded > Terminal, can be made available by installing the 'gedit-plugins' > package as well. Your distro may have its packages set up differently, > of course. > > Hope this helps! > > Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon May 25 18:48:21 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 14:48:21 -0400 Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? In-Reply-To: <4A1AD438.50403-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com> <1243048732.25571.1316847739@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A1AD438.50403@alteeve.com> Message-ID: I am currently looking into E Text Editor (http://github.com/etexteditor/e) an Open Source port of TextMate. It look promising, but still in development. On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > I took a second look at 'gedit', and it seems a lot further on than last > time I looked. Do you know if there is a "session manager" plugin for it? If > there is, I think it will do the job perfectly. > > I work on a few different projects and often switch between them to snag > code. Having an option to say "open files for project X" and have it > remember what files I last had open in that project is one of my favourite > features of kate. > > Madi > > Amanda Yilmaz wrote: >> >> I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned gedit; it's the official text >> editor for GNOME, and as far as I know it's the closest equivalent to >> Kate under GNOME. ?For better or worse, and never having taken a liking >> to either vim or emacs (I originally came to Linux from the Mac and >> Windows GUI world), this is the text editor I use most often. >> >> While it may not be obvious at first, gedit can be turned into quite a >> powerful and pleasant editor to use via its plugin architecture, and >> many plugins are available. ?None of the plugins are enabled by default, >> however, so in order to use them you must explicitly enable the ones you >> want through the Preferences dialog (Edit > Preferences > Plugins). ?One >> of the available plugins is File Browser Pane, which shows a list of >> currently open files, exactly the way you mentioned - and yes, it >> appears on the left, within gedit's Side Pane, which you can open via >> View > Side Pane or by pressing F9. ?Syntax highlighting is also >> supported, and the list of supported languages is extensive. >> >> On Debian-based systems anyway (including Ubuntu), several plugins, >> including the aforementioned File Browser Pane, Indent Lines (for >> indenting or unindenting a selected code range), Snippets, and Sort, are >> considered 'standard' and are included as part of the standard 'gedit' >> package. ?More plugins, including Character Map, Code Comment (for >> commenting a selected code range in or out), Smart Spaces, and Embedded >> Terminal, can be made available by installing the 'gedit-plugins' >> package as well. ?Your distro may have its packages set up differently, >> of course. >> >> Hope this helps! >> >> Amanda > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ Please consider the trees before print this email. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 25 19:09:27 2009 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 15:09:27 -0400 Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? In-Reply-To: <4A1AD438.50403-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com><1243048732.25571.1316847739@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A1AD438.50403@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1243278567.26100.1317132113@webmail.messagingengine.com> There is indeed a "Session Saver" plugin for gedit, which on Debian/Ubuntu systems is one of the extra plugins in the 'gedit-plugins' package. When you install 'gedit-plugins' and enable Session Saver, a new submenu called "Saved sessions" appears in the File menu between the Open and Save entries, from where you can save, open and otherwise manage sessions. The submenu looks something like this: Saved sessions > My first saved session My second saved session My third saved session (and so on...) --------------------------- Save current session Manage saved sessions... Does that seem like it might fit the bill? Amanda ----- Original message ----- From: "Madison Kelly" To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 13:24:08 -0400 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Gnome equiv. to Kate? I took a second look at 'gedit', and it seems a lot further on than last time I looked. Do you know if there is a "session manager" plugin for it? If there is, I think it will do the job perfectly. I work on a few different projects and often switch between them to snag code. Having an option to say "open files for project X" and have it remember what files I last had open in that project is one of my favourite features of kate. Madi Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned gedit; it's the official text > editor for GNOME, and as far as I know it's the closest equivalent to > Kate under GNOME. For better or worse, and never having taken a liking > to either vim or emacs (I originally came to Linux from the Mac and > Windows GUI world), this is the text editor I use most often. > > While it may not be obvious at first, gedit can be turned into quite a > powerful and pleasant editor to use via its plugin architecture, and > many plugins are available. None of the plugins are enabled by default, > however, so in order to use them you must explicitly enable the ones you > want through the Preferences dialog (Edit > Preferences > Plugins). One > of the available plugins is File Browser Pane, which shows a list of > currently open files, exactly the way you mentioned - and yes, it > appears on the left, within gedit's Side Pane, which you can open via > View > Side Pane or by pressing F9. Syntax highlighting is also > supported, and the list of supported languages is extensive. > > On Debian-based systems anyway (including Ubuntu), several plugins, > including the aforementioned File Browser Pane, Indent Lines (for > indenting or unindenting a selected code range), Snippets, and Sort, are > considered 'standard' and are included as part of the standard 'gedit' > package. More plugins, including Character Map, Code Comment (for > commenting a selected code range in or out), Smart Spaces, and Embedded > Terminal, can be made available by installing the 'gedit-plugins' > package as well. Your distro may have its packages set up differently, > of course. > > Hope this helps! > > Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 25 19:18:30 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 15:18:30 -0400 Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? In-Reply-To: <4A17033E.4070609-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4A1AEF06.7010502@dinamis.com> On 22/05/09 03:55 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been using kate for some time now, but I've found that since the > last few distro versions it has gotten slow as heck. I've got a 2.1GHz > CPU and 2GB of RAM and it can take several seconds just to have things > like switching between files, opening dialogs and such. > > I am wondering if running a KDE app under Gnome is to blame or if it's > changes in the KDE system, but it's barely usable these days. Can anyone > recommend an equivalent? This is not my experience with Kate, even on slower systems, but I run it in KDE 3.5.10 on Kubuntu Hardy and KDE 4.2x on Fedora 10, not that it should make a difference. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 25 19:29:51 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 15:29:51 -0400 Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? In-Reply-To: <1243278567.26100.1317132113-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com><1243048732.25571.1316847739@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A1AD438.50403@alteeve.com> <1243278567.26100.1317132113@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4A1AF1AF.1020407@alteeve.com> Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > There is indeed a "Session Saver" plugin for gedit, which on > Debian/Ubuntu systems is one of the extra plugins in the 'gedit-plugins' > package. > > When you install 'gedit-plugins' and enable Session Saver, a new submenu > called "Saved sessions" appears in the File menu between the Open and > Save entries, from where you can save, open and otherwise manage > sessions. The submenu looks something like this: > > Saved sessions > > My first saved session > My second saved session > My third saved session > (and so on...) > --------------------------- > Save current session > Manage saved sessions... > > Does that seem like it might fit the bill? > > Amanda Awesome! One last question and I think it will be a perfect replacement. Is there a way to use hot keys to cycle through the open documents? In kate, I could switch the open document by pressing +[|]. Is there a way to do something similar in gedit? Thanks!! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 25 19:31:16 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 15:31:16 -0400 Subject: ext4 (was: Gnome equiv. to Kate?) In-Reply-To: <4A1AEF06.7010502-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com> <4A1AEF06.7010502@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4A1AF204.7070804@alteeve.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 22/05/09 03:55 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I've been using kate for some time now, but I've found that since the >> last few distro versions it has gotten slow as heck. I've got a 2.1GHz >> CPU and 2GB of RAM and it can take several seconds just to have things >> like switching between files, opening dialogs and such. >> >> I am wondering if running a KDE app under Gnome is to blame or if it's >> changes in the KDE system, but it's barely usable these days. Can anyone >> recommend an equivalent? > > This is not my experience with Kate, even on slower systems, but I run > it in KDE 3.5.10 on Kubuntu Hardy and KDE 4.2x on Fedora 10, not that it > should make a difference. I am starting to wonder if it's because I am using ext4, as the slow downs seem to be in time with disk access. Anyone else had any exposure to ext4? Particularly because I am using a laptop with a somewhat slow 5,400rpm platter HDD. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 25 19:49:48 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 15:49:48 -0400 Subject: ext4 In-Reply-To: <4A1AF204.7070804-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com> <4A1AEF06.7010502@dinamis.com> <4A1AF204.7070804@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4A1AF65C.40808@dinamis.com> On 25/05/09 03:31 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > I am starting to wonder if it's because I am using ext4, as the slow > downs seem to be in time with disk access. Anyone else had any exposure > to ext4? I use ReiserFS on my Kubuntu box. I run ext3 on the Fedora boxes. I'm not inclined to run ext4 for a while. There is no perceptible delay in switching from one file to another or opening files in Kate on any of the systems I use and at least one of them is likely to be slower than your machine. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 25 20:25:34 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 16:25:34 -0400 Subject: ext4 (was: Gnome equiv. to Kate?) In-Reply-To: <4A1AF204.7070804-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com> <4A1AEF06.7010502@dinamis.com> <4A1AF204.7070804@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Afternoon Madi, > > I am starting to wonder if it's because I am using ext4, as the slow downs > seem to be in time with disk access. Anyone else had any exposure to ext4? > > Particularly because I am using a laptop with a somewhat slow 5,400rpm > platter HDD. I really doubt this is the case. Though 5,400 rpm may be considered slow now days, I am finding it hard figuring out how a couple of pages of texts can get anywhere near maxing ext4 throughput. That kind of problem could have been caught by now. In fact, database performance would be miserable on ext4 should this be the case. That being said, the best way to rule it out ext4 is monitor it for a while. Would you be in position of setting up cacti locally on your laptop? If you can pull it and then graph CPU usage, memory and iostat, it will pinpoint your bottle neck very quickly. http://www.markround.com/archives/48-Linux-iostat-monitoring-with-Cacti.html I admit it may look like a lot of work, but its will be more accurate than guessing > > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 26 00:14:27 2009 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 20:14:27 -0400 Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? In-Reply-To: <4A1AF1AF.1020407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com><1243048732.25571.1316847739@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A1AD438.50403@alteeve.com> <1243278567.26100.1317132113@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A1AF1AF.1020407@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1243296867.6968.1317158749@webmail.messagingengine.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Awesome! > > One last question and I think it will be a perfect replacement. > > Is there a way to use hot keys to cycle through the open documents? In > kate, I could switch the open document by pressing +[ arrow>|]. Is there a way to do something similar in gedit? > > Thanks!! > > Madi The keys are different, but yes, gedit can do the same thing: Ctrl + Alt + PgUp: Next tab left (or up, if using document list). Ctrl + Alt + PgDn: Next tab right (or down, if using document list). Alt + n: Jump to nth tab. More shortcuts can be found in gedit's online manual (Help > Contents). By the way, it turns out I was confused when I mentioned the File Browser Pane plugin earlier (it's been a while since I set this up on my laptop). Here's the correct information: *All* modern installations of gedit allow you to view the list of and switch between open files using the Side Pane, even with no plugins enabled; this functionality is built in. The File Browser Pane plugin is different; it implements an entire file browser as a separate tab within the Side Pane, so it's more akin to an Open/Save dialog box than a document list. Sorry about that. If you hate tabs and always intend to navigate between open files using the document list, you might be interested in another plugin in the 'gedit-plugins' package: "Show/Hide Tabbar", which will allow you to hide the tab bar using the View menu and reclaim a bit of vertical space. Behdad Esfahbad (the President of the GNOME Foundation, who lives in Toronto and is apparently on this list) emailed me earlier today; he said he had tried to post about gedit earlier but apparently his post didn't make it through to the list. He says he finds the following article useful when introducing gedit to new users: Customizing gedit as a Web Developer's IDE http://www.micahcarrick.com/09-29-2007/gedit-html-editor.html So there you have it. If you have more questions, I'm always glad to help. ^_^ Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 26 00:22:04 2009 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 20:22:04 -0400 Subject: Gnome equiv. to Kate? [typo correction] In-Reply-To: <1243296867.6968.1317158749-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4A17033E.4070609@alteeve.com><1243048732.25571.1316847739@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A1AD438.50403@alteeve.com> <1243278567.26100.1317132113@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A1AF1AF.1020407@alteeve.com> <1243296867.6968.1317158749@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1243297324.8315.1317164513@webmail.messagingengine.com> Amanda Yilmaz wrote: > Behdad Esfahbad (the President of the GNOME Foundation, who lives in > Toronto and is apparently on this list) emailed me earlier today; he That should have been "Esfahbod" (with an "o"), sorry! Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 26 07:11:10 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 03:11:10 -0400 Subject: sweet netbook Message-ID: <20090526031110.7c0b7335@teksavvy.com> http://hothardware.com/News/Lenovo-Goes-Ion-With-121-IdeaPad-S12-Netbook/ -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 26 13:08:51 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 09:08:51 -0400 Subject: sweet netbook In-Reply-To: <20090526031110.7c0b7335-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090526031110.7c0b7335@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0905260608v161c109ahbe2afc1b726ff0cf@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 3:11 AM, JoeHill wrote: > > http://hothardware.com/News/Lenovo-Goes-Ion-With-121-IdeaPad-S12-Netbook/ They keep pushing the envelope on what a "netbook" is. This is totally a subnotebook. x24: 27.9x3.0x22.7 cm 1.6 kg ATI Mobility Radeon, Intel PIII-Mobility 1.13GHz s12: 292 X 216 X 22-28.9mm 1.4kg with 3 cell, 1.55kg with 6 cell NVidia Ion, Intel Atom N270 Yep, the s12 is a *bit* smaller and cheaper, probably a lot faster, but it's also 7 years newer. I'm just bitter because I want one and I can't justify replacing my current machine :-) -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 26 14:00:49 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 10:00:49 -0400 Subject: sweet netbook In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0905260608v161c109ahbe2afc1b726ff0cf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090526031110.7c0b7335@teksavvy.com> <92ee967a0905260608v161c109ahbe2afc1b726ff0cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090526140049.GA2342@watson-wilson.ca> The 12" size might be just a bit too big. I have a 10" eeepc. I can't see the benefit, for me, of going any larger. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue May 26 14:10:57 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 10:10:57 -0400 Subject: sweet netbook In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0905260608v161c109ahbe2afc1b726ff0cf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090526031110.7c0b7335@teksavvy.com> <92ee967a0905260608v161c109ahbe2afc1b726ff0cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A1BF871.1010305@telly.org> Mike Kallies wrote: >> http://hothardware.com/News/Lenovo-Goes-Ion-With-121-IdeaPad-S12-Netbook/ >> > > They keep pushing the envelope on what a "netbook" is. This is > totally a subnotebook. > Agreed. Even price-wise this is clearly in the realm of conventional notebooks. For $500US on a laptop you can get a system with a Pentium rather than an Atom, so this To me the benchmark netbook is still the original 7" Asus; I feel like I've already stretched the category with my 10" system. And while a faster GPU would always be welcome -- allowing a netbook to function as a full-screen media player -- it should not come at any significant penalty of battery life or price. I think the category will be rebooted when the first ARM-based netbooks arrive and reminds everyone what their special appeal was n the first place. Just as Microsoft struggles to keep Windows cheap and lean enough for netbooks, along will come a design that will be far harder to port to than simply reviving XP. The ARM processor is getting better and builders have the choice of Android or Ubuntu platforms. http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9527593286.html I think that ARM is a far more dangerous threat to Intel in netbook space than AMD could ever hope to be. While AMD and VIA play catch-up with what are essentially Atom-wannabes, ARM is a departure that will start to make netbooks resemble the iPod Touch and Nokia N800 more than regular laptops. Indeed, if you think of the roots of the Moblin project, its original intent was to keep Intel relevant in the realm of devices smaller than netbooks. The project has shifted gears to focus on "conventional" netbooks (probably with the urging of a Novell struggling to be relevant in netbook space), however the goal of Moblin is to provide the software support needed by Intel as it tries to go downscale. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 26 22:50:11 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 18:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: sweet netbook In-Reply-To: <4A1BF871.1010305-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090526031110.7c0b7335@teksavvy.com> <92ee967a0905260608v161c109ahbe2afc1b726ff0cf@mail.gmail.com> <4A1BF871.1010305@telly.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 May 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote: | From: Evan Leibovitch | To me the benchmark netbook is still the original 7" Asus; I feel like | I've already stretched the category with my 10" system. Agreed. Besides, I had a fine 10.6" subnote some years ago. There are quite a few 12" notebooks too. Less is more. | And while a | faster GPU would always be welcome -- allowing a netbook to function as | a full-screen media player -- it should not come at any significant | penalty of battery life or price. Right. I think that Intel's current support chips are not well-designed for netbooks. Too power hungry. nVidia's chipset supposedly has a similar power budget but better video performance. I'd rather go the other way: reasonable modest performance and much lower power. | I think the category will be rebooted when the first ARM-based netbooks | arrive and reminds everyone what their special appeal was n the first | place. Maybe. I have trouble predicting the market -- it doesn't like what I like, or if it does, it is for different reasons. The HP Journada series of the past was a bit like that and it didn't fly. WinCE might have been a problem. I like Linux but I don't know that it is an easy sell. Lots of netbook manufacturers seem to have retreated from it. Of course we think that they didn't do Linux right. Sadly, Intel and MS are scared of cannibalizing sales of their higher-price products and so, via licensing agreements, limit the capabilities of netbooks. | Just as Microsoft struggles to keep Windows cheap and lean enough | for netbooks, The problem is to manage price differentiation. | along will come a design that will be far harder to port | to than simply reviving XP. The ARM processor is getting better and | builders have the choice of Android or Ubuntu platforms. | | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9527593286.html | | I think that ARM is a far more dangerous threat to Intel in netbook | space than AMD could ever hope to be. I don't understand this. The ARM has been around for a while. Ditto AMD low-power chips. Yet the netbook came out with the Atom, more or less. The OLPC XO may or may not have been an inspiration for the netbook. It has an AMD CPU. I admit that the original Asus netbook had a ULV Pentium M. I'm not sure why. Intel was trying really hard to derail or turn the OLPC project. Maybe the Atom was part of that, but that seems insufficient justification. Intel was a strong player in the ARM world (StrongARM, xscale). Maybe when they ditched that they felt they had an exposed flank and built the Atom to cover it. The Atom was mentioned as being aimed at things like cell phones. If so, its power budget makes it a failure. But maybe that will improve. | While AMD and VIA play catch-up | with what are essentially Atom-wannabes, AMD and Via have had useful low power x86 processors for years. Something I don't know made netbooks crystalize around the Atom. Perhaps Intel seeded the OEMs with reference designs. Perhaps the first Asus netbook showed a market. Perhaps it is all marketting: users thought they knew what a netbook was when they saw it (a notebook, cut down). Maybe they didn't see what they could do with, say, a Nokia n800 or an OLPC XO. | ARM is a departure that will | start to make netbooks resemble the iPod Touch and Nokia N800 more than | regular laptops. What are you thinking of? Those models already exist. As far as I can tell, they are failures as platforms. The iPhone seems to be a success. But all I hear is (some) buzz. I don't know reality. | Indeed, if you think of the roots of the Moblin project, its original | intent was to keep Intel relevant in the realm of devices smaller than | netbooks. The project has shifted gears to focus on "conventional" | netbooks (probably with the urging of a Novell struggling to be relevant | in netbook space), however the goal of Moblin is to provide the software | support needed by Intel as it tries to go downscale. Novell? As far as I can tell, most packages in Moblin come from Fedora. The tool chain comes from SuSE. I don't know about the kernel. At this point, the Moblin folks don't appear to be sending things upstream. I hope that will change. I wonder/fear that Linux is wielded as a threat the MS more than an actual tool, at least in the netbook space. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 27 15:59:46 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 11:59:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: good deal on slim external DVD writer (useful if you bought a netbook) Message-ID: Today's "shell shocker(R)" from newegg.ca is a slim DVD writer that is USB-powered at a pretty good price ($56.99 "including shipping"). I have no experience with this device. I have a similar device but mine is powered by AC unfortunately. http://www.newegg.ca/Special/ShellShocker.aspx -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed May 27 16:19:25 2009 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:19:25 -0400 Subject: The Zen of Kibitzing (Was: Hecklers) Message-ID: <4A1D680D.4080700@ss.org> As a previous TLUG speaker [1] and a mostly regular attendee of the TLUG meetings I feel I need to weigh in on this subject. This 'heckling' (which is a loaded term to begin with), is not actually by definition heckling. It Generally is, to quote Robert Brockway's earlier post: 1) Comments/annecdotes related to the topic that are sometimes amusing and sometimes intended to show off knowledge of the subject. 2) Insightful questions that raise important points. To cite example of my own Talk, The Horizon of Human Interface, I got a lot of Cross talk from the crowd. To put this in perspective, this was my first public Talk, ever. I had little experience with sitting in front of folks and talking, but I knew my topic. I knew it well and because of that I was able to take hard questions and When there were things I didn't know, and there is always something a speaker doesn't know, the crowd had some answers. I've always found this to be true of any TLUG meeting, that the crowd always had something to add or provide a different prospective, and this one *ADDS* to the value of a TLUG meeting. When it comes to actual Heckling it's only in my experience been when the present *DIDN'T* know their subject. This begs the Question then why did the *Volunteer* to present to TLUG, which is know for being a INTERMEDIATE to EXPERT orientated group. This is not to say that beginner level talks can't be done, but a speaker must be ready to make a full presentation, and any other speaker will tell you that KNOWING your topic usually makes the difference between a good talk and a bad one that gets heckled. It is possible and I've seen it happen when an audience members hijacks or take a presentation on a tangent, but that only happens when either the Presenter doesn't know their topic, or haven't set down ground rules. Ground rules set up at the start of the presentation, (Madison is know for this, She'll often say that Questions will be taken at the end.) It is very important to Remember that the Audiance is there to hear the Presenter, they'll quite down if the presenter asks them too, and in the extremelly rare event that doesn't happen, the Organizer are there to Support the Present. [1]: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Meetings:2008-05 -- Scott Sullivan P.S. The closest thing to heckling I remember from my own talk was when my own Mother stopped the talk part way through to let me know she was leaving and would see me later that night. Now if that isn't a show stopper, I don't know what is! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 27 22:50:54 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 18:50:54 -0400 Subject: The Zen of Kibitzing (Was: Hecklers) In-Reply-To: <4A1D680D.4080700-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <4A1D680D.4080700@ss.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280905271550v383a822cw5673fdd804494b34@mail.gmail.com> 2009/5/27 Scott Sullivan : > As a previous TLUG speaker [1] and a mostly regular attendee of the TLUG > meetings I feel I need to weigh in on this subject. > > This 'heckling' (which is a loaded term to begin with), is not actually by > definition heckling. It Generally is, to quote Robert Brockway's earlier > post: > > ?1) Comments/annecdotes related to the topic that are sometimes amusing > ?and sometimes intended to show off knowledge of the subject. > > ?2) Insightful questions that raise important points. "heckle: to harass (a public speaker, performer, etc.) with impertinent questions, gibes, or the like; badger." Yes, "heckling" is a loaded term. And by the strict definition of the term, it's not what goes on at a TLUG meeting. Robert's analysis is accurate, but I'm afraid it's a little generous. In the name of full disclosure I should mention that I'm both a previous presenter (Window Managers, about two years ago) and next month's TLUG speaker (the GIMP) so I hope I don't alienate anybody too much. But what I'm saying is coming from my perspective as an occasional attendee, not presenter. Questions I'm okay with. Humour is good if A) it's funny, and B) it's in _small_ quantities. Sometimes the jokes are very funny - but they can be too numerous. And the expansion on technical subjects bothers me because the presenter has made a decision _not_ to go into more depth on the subject, so we're into the "intended to show off knowledge of the subject" area which is unnecessary and also implicitly questions the presenter's choice of content. It may be educational, but it isn't what we came to hear. I'd like to re-iterate: this has been my feeling as an attendee, not as speaker. When I presented I laid down ground rules (as Scott mentioned), taking questions on the fly but asking people not to expand on technical points. I thought it went well and I was happy to have done the presentation. But as an attendee, the interruptions of other speakers drive me crazy - and just as important, make a relatively short talk too long. It's the reason I attend infrequently. I know that the other speakers can lay down ground rules (if they attend TLUG themselves and know to do so) and probably don't because they're okay with the chatter, but it still bothers me. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 28 01:21:53 2009 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 21:21:53 -0400 Subject: OT: Is H.264 a suitable archive format for Video? Message-ID: <4A1DE731.9020204@utoronto.ca> If one wanted to archive video, would H.264 be suitable? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu May 28 01:55:26 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 21:55:26 -0400 Subject: OT: Is H.264 a suitable archive format for Video? In-Reply-To: <4A1DE731.9020204-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A1DE731.9020204@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20090527215526.dd83b53a.tleslie@tcn.net> interesting question, i capture 1080i and 720p from my cable box and ps3 using the haupauge HD capture device (to linux via usb2.0), i haven't had much luck converting it to other forms without some degradation, but that could just be the nature of the beast. I haven't always had perfect playback on Linux, but its mostly good. as for archive, i am thinking, suitable? suitable by: (1) codec still around in years to decode? (2) legal issues (sort of related to above) ? (3) ability to overcome bit errors on the media, and how bad it makes "recovering it"? (4) does it compress well? I know its very popular, but I have also heard there maybe legal issues brewing. Since linux plays it now, I am sure it will stay that way in the future (even if it means getting a "illegal" codec). I am not sure its recover ability, i think its probably just screwed until the next I-frame. I have found it compresses well, and typical hardware of todays desktop decodes it adequately. I would be interested in other feed back, of a better codec, or maybe one slightly worst in compression, but better in the other areas, but for now, i am just saving away video exactly how the haupauge takes it down, as 264. i put the files on a bluray to my ps3, and they played, i tried a conversion, and it didn't work, but haven't played with it much. -tl On Wed, 27 May 2009 21:21:53 -0400 Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > If one wanted to archive video, would H.264 be suitable? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 28 13:31:54 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 09:31:54 -0400 Subject: [OT} Any SQL Experts Here? Message-ID: <4A1E924A.6000804@rogers.com> Any SQL experts here? I am trying to enhance my web site and I can?t come up with the query that I need. Briefly, I have table A and table B The unique primary keys in table A, are present in a column in table B. It is a one to many relationship. Currently, I select all of table A, plus the row count of table B, indicating how many table B rows have the primary key of the table A row. Now, I want to add an additional field from column B, for the first matching row. But I need to something equivalent to a LIMIT 1 on the table B rows, so the final result set has the same number of entries as rows in table A. I am using the PDO class in PHP against a MySQL database. I will send the full detail to anyone willing to take a look. Thanks! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 28 13:52:37 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 09:52:37 -0400 Subject: [OT} Any SQL Experts Here? In-Reply-To: <4A1E924A.6000804-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A1E924A.6000804@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Stephen wrote: > Any SQL experts here? > > I am trying to enhance my web site and I can?t come up with the query that I > need. > > Briefly, I have table A and table B > > The unique primary keys in table A, are present in a column in table B. It > is a one to many relationship. > > Currently, I select all of table A, plus the row count of table B, > indicating how many table B rows have the primary key of the table A row. > > Now, I want to add an additional field from column B, for the first matching > row. But I need to something equivalent to a LIMIT 1 on the table B rows, so > the final result set has the same number of entries as rows in table A. > > I am using the PDO class in PHP against a MySQL database. PDO doesn't matter here; what version of MySQL(an Oracle Trademark) very well might. This seems like a pretty ordinary JOIN + GROUP BY. something like: select a.*, count(*) as num_rows, min(b.some_column) as first_match from a, b where a.pk = b.pk group by a.pk, a.this, a.that, a.other -- need to group by EVERY column in A Depending on version, you might need to use an explicit join instead. It's conceivable that the last line might be replaced by "group by a.*", though that seems somewhat unlikely. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Bette Davis - "Brought up to respect the conventions, love had to end in marriage. I'm afraid it did." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/bette_davis.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 28 14:06:50 2009 From: Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Alexander Short) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 10:06:50 -0400 Subject: [OT} Any SQL Experts Here? In-Reply-To: <4A1E924A.6000804-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A1E924A.6000804@rogers.com> Message-ID: One way and there is perhaps better, is to use a sub-select. This is one way of doing it at least in T-SQL using MS SQL (what I'm more familiar with) SELECT a.*,COUNT(b.*),(SELECT TOP 1 b2.FIELD FROM TABLEB b2 WHERE b2.KEY1 = a.KEY1 AND b2.KEY2 = a.KEY2) FROM TABLEA a JOIN TABLEB b ON a.KEY1 = b.KEY1 AND a.KEY2 = b.KEY2 GROUP BY a.KEY1,a.KEY2 -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:32 AM To: TO Linux User Group Subject: [TLUG]: [OT} Any SQL Experts Here? Any SQL experts here? I am trying to enhance my web site and I can't come up with the query that I need. Briefly, I have table A and table B The unique primary keys in table A, are present in a column in table B. It is a one to many relationship. Currently, I select all of table A, plus the row count of table B, indicating how many table B rows have the primary key of the table A row. Now, I want to add an additional field from column B, for the first matching row. But I need to something equivalent to a LIMIT 1 on the table B rows, so the final result set has the same number of entries as rows in table A. I am using the PDO class in PHP against a MySQL database. I will send the full detail to anyone willing to take a look. Thanks! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 28 14:22:48 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 10:22:48 -0400 Subject: [OT} Any SQL Experts Here? In-Reply-To: References: <4A1E924A.6000804@rogers.com> Message-ID: Short, One way and there is perhaps better, is to use a sub-select. This is > one way of doing it at least in T-SQL using MS SQL (what I'm more > familiar with) > > SELECT a.*,COUNT(b.*),(SELECT TOP 1 b2.FIELD FROM TABLEB b2 WHERE > b2.KEY1 = a.KEY1 AND b2.KEY2 = a.KEY2) > FROM TABLEA a > JOIN TABLEB b > ON a.KEY1 = b.KEY1 > AND a.KEY2 = b.KEY2 > GROUP BY a.KEY1,a.KEY2 This, as you mentioned above is a sub query - please correct me if I am wrong - and sub queries perform badly especially on mysql. I have been reading a couple of books in the subject in attempt to break into this field and it looks like even oracle do try a lot to discourage sub queries. Of course if performance is not important, then this should not come into consideration. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Stephen > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:32 AM > To: TO Linux User Group > Subject: [TLUG]: [OT} Any SQL Experts Here? > > Any SQL experts here? > > I am trying to enhance my web site and I can't come up with the query > that I need. > > Briefly, I have table A and table B > > The unique primary keys in table A, are present in a column in table B. > It is a one to many relationship. > > Currently, I select all of table A, plus the row count of table B, > indicating how many table B rows have the primary key of the table A > row. > > Now, I want to add an additional field from column B, for the first > matching row. But I need to something equivalent to a LIMIT 1 on the > table B rows, so the final result set has the same number of entries as > rows in table A. > > I am using the PDO class in PHP against a MySQL database. > > I will send the full detail to anyone willing to take a look. > > Thanks! > > Stephen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 28 15:30:21 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 11:30:21 -0400 Subject: [OT} Any SQL Experts Here? In-Reply-To: References: <4A1E924A.6000804@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Alexander Short wrote: > One way and there is perhaps better, is to use a sub-select. ?This is > one way of doing it at least in T-SQL using MS SQL (what I'm more > familiar with) > > SELECT ?a.*,COUNT(b.*),(SELECT TOP 1 b2.FIELD FROM TABLEB b2 WHERE > b2.KEY1 = a.KEY1 AND b2.KEY2 = a.KEY2) > FROM ? ?TABLEA a > JOIN ? ?TABLEB b > ON ? ? ?a.KEY1 = b.KEY1 > AND ? ? a.KEY2 = b.KEY2 > GROUP BY a.KEY1,a.KEY2 That's a subquery, and MySQL(an Oracle TM) only started supporting them comparatively recently. I don't believe "SELECT TOP 1" is either standard SQL, nor supported by MySQL(an Oracle TM). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Mitch Hedberg - "My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mitch_hedberg.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 28 15:50:10 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 11:50:10 -0400 Subject: [OT} Any SQL Experts Here? In-Reply-To: <4A1E924A.6000804-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A1E924A.6000804@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A1EB2B2.4070508@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > Any SQL experts here? > Thanks to all who replied. I already had a group by in the select and it was more powerful than I thought. Just adding the desired field did it! Problem solved. Cheers Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From unforgiven24-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 28 15:53:28 2009 From: unforgiven24-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Ward) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 11:53:28 -0400 Subject: [OT} Any SQL Experts Here? In-Reply-To: <4A1EB2B2.4070508-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A1E924A.6000804@rogers.com> <4A1EB2B2.4070508@rogers.com> Message-ID: <5aa434200905280853l4d6f09c9n1b82039b8221bdec@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Stephen wrote: > Stephen wrote: >> >> Any SQL experts here? >> > Thanks to all who replied. > > I already had a group by in the select and it was more powerful than I > thought. Just adding the desired field did it! > > Problem solved. > > Cheers > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Oh, you tease. :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu May 28 17:11:34 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 13:11:34 -0400 Subject: Linux and NT kernels in one Message-ID: <20090528131134.6c885f42@teksavvy.com> http://www.osnews.com/story/21573/Linux_Unified_Kernel_Aims_to_Combine_Linux_NT_Kernel -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 28 18:30:57 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 14:30:57 -0400 Subject: Open Internet Town Hall in Toronto on June 8 Message-ID: <99a6c38f0905281130w64c3758btf2c0f00515c66052@mail.gmail.com> This might be interesting for some; from the page at http://saveournet.ca/toronto : Open Internet Town Hall (Toronto) SaveourNet.ca is Partnering with Rabble.ca for a very special event. Held during Net Change Week in Toronto, SaveourNet.ca and Rabble.ca will present Toronto?s Open Internet Town Hall, which will be filmed by TheREALNews.com. Where: Live from the Gladstone Hotel in Toronto, 1214 Queen St. West When: Monday June 8, 2009 at 7pm Featured speakers for the Town Hall include: Mark Surman (Executive Director of the Mozilla Foundation) Rocky Gaudrault (CEO of Teksavvy Solutions Inc.) Steve Anderson (Co-founder of SaveourNet.ca) Derek Blackadder (National Representative with CUPE) Until now, Canada?s Internet has been an open network and a level playing field for free speech, innovation, and consumer choice. All that is now under threat. Being held during Net Change Week in Toronto, Toronto?s Open Internet Town Hall is designed to give local citizens the chance to shape Canada?s broadband future. As Canada falls behind other OECD countries on Internet speed, cost, and openness, SaveourNet.ca will host a lively discussion guided by panelists representing web innovators, social change leaders, and public policy gurus. We will gather citizen testimony that SaveOurNet.ca?s Steve Anderson will use to guide his presentation to the CRTC at the July 6 ?Traffic Management? hearing. We will also record the town hall meetings and present video testimonials to the CRTC and share them online. Information gathered at the town hall meeting will also help us develop the ?Open Internet Declaration? which we will put before MPs and policy makers. We want to engage the public in discussion on what the future of the Internet should look like by addressing the following questions: * How can we ensure Internet services for everyone in Canada? * How do we expand consumer choice and lower costs for Internet services? * How can the Internet be a catalyst for economic growth, jobs, and prosperity? * How do we preserve the Internet?s level playing field so everyone can access the content, applications, and services of their choice? * What roles should the federal government, local governments, private industry, and everyday citizens play to build a better Internet? * What can and should citizens do right now? Toronto?s Internet Town Hall will be held in the historic Gladstone Hotel Ballroom 1214 Queen Street West, Toronto Monday 8 June, 2009 7 - 10pm $10 ? the associated cost will cover venue rental and production costs. For more information about the campaign, visit http://saveournet.ca/ -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 28 20:16:39 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 16:16:39 -0400 Subject: Linux and NT kernels in one In-Reply-To: <20090528131134.6c885f42-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090528131134.6c885f42@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <4A1EF127.6080408@rogers.com> JoeHill wrote: > http://www.osnews.com/story/21573/Linux_Unified_Kernel_Aims_to_Combine_Linux_NT_Kernel > > Does that mean we now have to reboot the computer frequently? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat May 30 14:00:53 2009 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 10:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT Linux Caffe on CBC Message-ID: <58384.72.37.171.60.1243692053.squirrel@72.37.171.60> I was watching the CBC weekend news at 06:00 this morning and saw their reporter reporting on the Obama social networking success. She was sitting in the Linux Caffe. They did flash the location on the screen. There was someone serving up coffee in the backgroung. It could have been DJP. John ---------------------------- Powered by Execulink Webmail http://www.execulink.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4 at gmail.com Sat May 30 17:56:52 2009 From: psema4 at gmail.com (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 13:56:52 -0400 Subject: [OT]: We're All The Pirate Bay Message-ID: <99a6c38f0905301056x6c50d778vd0dfa504565c13dc@mail.gmail.com> I'm marking this Off Topic 'cause it is. I also know that a fairly significant portion of us carry this philosophy with us in our day-to-day lives. Montt Mardie has a little diddy called "We're all the Pirate Bay." If you're following the Pirate Bay trial, or any other legal matters pertaining to P2P, then I hope you'll share this clip. http://bit.ly/13MQQj http://www.frostclick.com/wp/index.php/2009/05/30/montt-mardie-were-all-the-pirate-bay/ PS - If you use the bit.ly I can post some numbers down the road... Cheers, - Scott. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 30 18:15:14 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 14:15:14 -0400 Subject: OT Linux Caffe on CBC In-Reply-To: <58384.72.37.171.60.1243692053.squirrel-lDyZaJZ6+smW7BxWL1Ai1g@public.gmane.org> References: <58384.72.37.171.60.1243692053.squirrel@72.37.171.60> Message-ID: <7c50d3570905301115h4e442dep43a533a1f0306d15@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 10:00, wrote: > I was watching the CBC weekend news at 06:00 this morning and saw their > reporter reporting on the Obama social networking success. She was sitting > in the Linux Caffe. They did flash the location on the screen. There was > someone serving up coffee in the backgroung. It could have been DJP. > > John > I just found the Linux Caffe recently, I've been by it tonnes of times but never really noticed it until Tuesday when I was riding home from a friend's place on my bike. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org Sat May 30 21:22:31 2009 From: simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org (simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 17:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: iptables --flush confusion Message-ID: I have a router set up to do NAT that's using iptables, with net.ipv4.ip_forward=1, and I'm somewhat confused why when I do an 'iptables --flush', I'm no longer able to connect to it from another device that is on the same subnet that the 'wan' interface is on. Does anyone know why this is? Am I misunderstanding what it is that --flush does, or some other basic networking concept? Cheers, spd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 31 01:58:45 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 21:58:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Report on piracy using plagiarized text and distorted numbers Message-ID: ------ http://www.arifsaha.com/ forwarded messages ------ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/canada-ip-battlelines-plagiarized-report-piracy-guesses.ars > Canada IP battlelines: "plagiarized" report, piracy "guesses" > > What sort of research group "plagiarizes" a report advocating > for stronger intellectual property laws? And why does the > Business Software Alliance give specific percentages for > software piracy even in countries where it has done no > surveys? ... > Last updated May 29, 2009 11:13 AM CT ... > First up was a report from the Conference Board of Canada, a > nonpartisan research group that was asked to produce a report > on the digital economy. When the report in question came out, > the press release trumpeted, "Canada seen as the file-swapping > capital of the world." ... > Geist revealed that numerous sections of the Conference Board > report were lifted nearly verbatim from an earlier report by > the International Intellectual Property Alliance. Credit was > sometimes given to the IIPA, though a mere citation doesn't > give someone the right to use another's exact words without > quote marks. ... > many of the other numbers used in the report are of dubious > provenance or are just sloppy. For instance, Geist notes that > "the OECD study that the Conference Board says found the > highest per capita incidence of unauthorized file sharing in > the world [in Canada] did not reach that conclusion. ... > The Conference Board said that it "stands behind the findings > of its report." ... > But the Conference Board has now announced on the front page > of its website that it has recalled the reports in question ... > Geist has now made another charge: the BSA is literally > "guessing" about the piracy rate in countries like Canada. ... > such numbers are routinely cited as fact by others, showing up > for decades in some cases as talking points in favor of > tougher copyright laws. Our own past attempts at getting to > the bottom of some of the figures commonly used by copyright > maximalists shows that some are flat-out ludicrous; others, > like the BSA numbers, are estimates based on models, and need > to be treated as such by policymakers. > > This is Geist's worry. "Rather than using broad bands to > account for errors (i.e. 30-40 percent range), they use very > specific figures and then cite even small increases or > decreases," he tells Ars. "They do not provide a margin of > error. If this is just a model without great precision, the > BSA should not be using it to lobby policy makers on the basis > that it provides a fairly precise figure." ... http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4000/125/ > The Conference Board of Canada's Deceptive, Plagiarized > Digital Economy Report > Monday May 25, 2009 ... http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4005/125/ > BSA Admits Canadian Software Piracy Rates Estimated; Canada > Viewed as Low Piracy Country > Wednesday May 27, 2009 ... http://news.google.ca/news/more?ncl=d2fqMWrlIKhrGcM5jjApktnaggHcM ---------------- end forwarded messages ----------------- -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 31 03:03:01 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 20:03:01 -0700 Subject: iptables --flush confusion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F2BA233-7F36-4D62-B94A-DBE4D2CFA053@gmail.com> Flush clears the firewall rules, although for NAT I believe you need "--flush -t nat" I assume you're connecting the the WAN OP, but maybe a leftover NAT rule is redirecting you connection, or the daemon you're connecting to doesn't listen on that port/IP? You could test with "tcplisten" or possibly "nc" for connections. (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 30-May-09, at 2:22 PM, simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org wrote: > I have a router set up to do NAT that's using iptables, with > net.ipv4.ip_forward=1, and I'm somewhat confused why when I do an > 'iptables --flush', I'm no longer able to connect to it from another > device that is on the same subnet that the 'wan' interface is on. > > Does anyone know why this is? Am I misunderstanding what it is that > --flush does, or some other basic networking concept? > > Cheers, > spd > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org Sun May 31 13:29:39 2009 From: simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org (Simon P. Ditner) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 09:29:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: iptables --flush confusion In-Reply-To: <3F2BA233-7F36-4D62-B94A-DBE4D2CFA053-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3F2BA233-7F36-4D62-B94A-DBE4D2CFA053@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ah, it turns out that I had set the INPUT policy to DROP, so that when I did the --flush, there were no longer any rules for letting traffic in. I had however thought that --flush included everything, rules, policies, nat, and such. But now I know better. -spd On Sat, 30 May 2009, Aviss,Tyler wrote: > Flush clears the firewall rules, although for NAT I believe you need "--flush > -t nat" > > I assume you're connecting the the WAN OP, but maybe a leftover NAT rule is > redirecting you connection, or the daemon you're connecting to doesn't listen > on that port/IP? You could test with "tcplisten" or possibly "nc" for > connections. > > > > (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) > > On 30-May-09, at 2:22 PM, simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> I have a router set up to do NAT that's using iptables, with >> net.ipv4.ip_forward=1, and I'm somewhat confused why when I do an 'iptables >> --flush', I'm no longer able to connect to it from another device that is >> on the same subnet that the 'wan' interface is on. >> >> Does anyone know why this is? Am I misunderstanding what it is that --flush >> does, or some other basic networking concept? >> >> Cheers, >> spd >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 31 14:47:25 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 10:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Report on piracy using plagiarized text and distorted numbers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, this probably should be OT. There is one issue that may be related, though: > http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/canada-ip-battlelines-plagiarized-report-piracy-guesses.ars >> Canada IP battlelines: "plagiarized" report, piracy "guesses" ... >> He had quite a bit to say, and it's worth quoting at some >> length: ... >> Briefly put, IDC bases its piracy rates and loss estimates on >> a model that includes many well-established, authoritative >> data sets, including figures on new PC shipments, the >> installed PC base, new software shipments, and average >> software prices in each country. Data on the average amount >> of software loaded on PCs in a given country is based on more >> than 6,000 end-user surveys in 24 countries, plus reams of >> similar data from previous years. This make me wonder whether the survey is good enough to cover free open source software usage in a particular country - e.g. Canada. Basically, if individuals - or even corporations - purchase some hardwares - without purchasing any softwares since they plan only to use FOSS with self / internal support - can these hardwares mistakenly counted into the estimated number of pirated software users? In other word, will / was Linux and other FOSS actually part of those estimated "pirated software numbers"? -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ **** http://www.arifsaha.com/christhasrisen.html Disclaimer: IANAL, IANALP, IANAMD, IANAMP, IANAAP my statements - if any - should be treated as such. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists