From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 1 00:30:40 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 19:30:40 -0500 Subject: Presentations and presenters In-Reply-To: <49A9782C.60709-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1235769519.5402.45.camel@leon> <49A9782C.60709@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 2/28/09, Madison Kelly wrote: > Richard Weait wrote: >> 1. Suggest a topic that you would like to attend. You may hit on a >> popular and compelling topic and inspire one of our members to offer to >> present. >> >> 2. Suggest a speaker who you would like to have at TLUG. Do you know >> an expert in a FLOSS software package who is not a TLUG member? Perhaps >> an amazing illustrator who uses Inkscape and Scribus? Those would make >> great talks, even if, or perhaps because, the presenter is not a >> programmer. >> >> 3. Think again about what would interest you in a presentation topic. >> Have you done something recently that took more time than it might have, >> had the task been illustrated at a previous meeting? Turn that in to a >> talk for TLUG that will save time for us when we have to perform that >> task. We want more voices to be heard at TLUG and more perspectives. > > If people want to throw out topics that interest them, maybe someone > who feels comfortable with one of the suggested topics will take it on. > > I can't think of anything right now, but I feel comfortable > presenting. Personally, I'd grab an interesting topic I thought I could > do. Assuming of course my past presentations didn't bore people tooooo > much. ;) > > Suggestions? > > Madi Well, I would be happy to recycle the talk I gave last Tuesday at NewTLUG, not like that talk got a fair hearing first time out :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robertgrid5-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 1 05:32:36 2009 From: robertgrid5-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Robert Gerald) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 00:32:36 -0500 Subject: security camera's and linux Message-ID: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, I'm looking to purchase a cheap security camera that is compatible with linux. Or if it has a web interface built inside itself. I am hoping it would be small, preferably that the people if they manage to get in my house, or the people trying to even break into my apartment not know that i'm seeing them trying so I can get the authorities. Please any suggestions would be helpful. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yayo23-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 1 06:03:52 2009 From: yayo23-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Cyo K) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 01:03:52 -0500 Subject: security camera's and linux In-Reply-To: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Get Haugpauge WinTV Go or similar to its chipset. Its not a web cam but I did not have any trouble when using it with a program like GnomeMeeting. Then you can use pretty much any camcorder with it! =] Hope that helps. On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Robert Gerald wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I'm looking to purchase a cheap security camera that is compatible with > linux. Or if it has a web interface built inside itself. > > I am hoping it would be small, preferably that the people if they manage to > get in my house, or the people trying to even break into my apartment not > know that i'm seeing them trying so I can get the authorities. > > Please any suggestions would be helpful. > > -- -Sayed -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 1 15:57:21 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 10:57:21 -0500 Subject: Presentations and presenters In-Reply-To: References: <1235769519.5402.45.camel@leon> <49A9782C.60709@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Richard, >> 3. Think again about what would interest you in a presentation topic. > >> Have you done something recently that took more time than it might have, > >> had the task been illustrated at a previous meeting? Turn that in to a > >> talk for TLUG that will save time for us when we have to perform that > >> task. We want more voices to be heard at TLUG and more perspectives. > - I wonder if running samba with AD would count as an interesting presentation. Or setting up openldap, Kerberos etc to emulate AD as practically as possible. - On a more creative side, lots of people tend to think gimp have a higher learning curve than photoshop. I hope his would be an interesting topic for both novice and experienced Linux users. > > > > If people want to throw out topics that interest them, maybe someone > > who feels comfortable with one of the suggested topics will take it on. > > > > I can't think of anything right now, but I feel comfortable > > presenting. Personally, I'd grab an interesting topic I thought I could > > do. Assuming of course my past presentations didn't bore people tooooo > > much. ;) > > > > Suggestions? > > > > Madi > William > > Well, I would be happy to recycle the talk I gave last Tuesday at > NewTLUG, not like that talk got a fair hearing first time out :-) . > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- For a list of all the ways technology has failed to improve the quality of life, please press three. ?Alice Kahn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 1 16:42:09 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 11:42:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: security camera's and linux In-Reply-To: References: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Cyo K [I hate HTML in mail] | Get Haugpauge WinTV | Go or similar to its chipset. Its not a web cam but I did not have any trouble when using it with a program like | GnomeMeeting. Then you can use pretty much any camcorder with it! =] I don't know much about security cammeras. I have noticed that they come in fleets and that one tries to capture days of observations. This means that one of the problems is cutting down the volume of data, generally at the expense of accuracy. Another is that the video receiver card should accept multiple video signals. This is not the case with the most common Hauppauge TV cards. (They may well have cards designed for security applications.) Specialized security solutions might better match Robert's requirements. | On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Robert Gerald wrote: | Hi Guys, | | I'm looking to purchase a cheap security camera that is compatible with linux. Or if it has a web interface | built inside itself. | | I am hoping it would be small, preferably that the people if they manage to get in my house, or the people | trying to even break into my apartment not know that i'm seeing them trying so I can get the authorities. | | Please any suggestions would be helpful. Your message suggests that you are thinking of real-time monitoring with only one camera. If that is the case, why do you need a computer at all? This seems to reflect a very particular threat model. I'm not saying that you are wrong but it does seem out of the ordinary. Monitoring a video stream 24 hours a day is a bit taxing for a human. Is your house something different from your apartment? How quickly do you expect "authorities" to responds? My guess is that most burglars have evolved behaviour that is quick enough that they are done before police respond. (But maybe I've watched too much TV.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 1 16:49:43 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 11:49:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: security camera's and linux In-Reply-To: References: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Cyo K > > [I hate HTML in mail] It's astonishing how many people ignore the request in the footer of every TLUG message: TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 1 16:54:20 2009 From: steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (steven meyer) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 11:54:20 -0500 Subject: security camera's and linux In-Reply-To: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AABDBC.1000007@computer.org> Robert Gerald wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I'm looking to purchase a cheap security camera that is compatible with > linux. Or if it has a web interface built inside itself. > > I am hoping it would be small, preferably that the people if they manage > to get in my house, or the people trying to even break into my apartment > not know that i'm seeing them trying so I can get the authorities. > > Please any suggestions would be helpful. > Most security cameras are linux-based and there are many to choose from ranging from $199 to whatever you want to pay. Nearly all can stream video to a PC or a network. Here's one that I know a lot about; http://focusoncctv.lorextechnology.com/product.aspx?id=1965 This has the feature of streaming via Internet site yoics.net to a computer or iPhone, no PC required. Steven -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 1 19:45:38 2009 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 14:45:38 -0500 Subject: security camera's and linux In-Reply-To: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AAE5E2.5040709@golden.net> Robert Gerald wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I'm looking to purchase a cheap security camera that is compatible > with linux. Or if it has a web interface built inside itself. > > I am hoping it would be small, preferably that the people if they > manage to get in my house, or the people trying to even break into my > apartment not know that i'm seeing them trying so I can get the > authorities. > > Please any suggestions would be helpful. > A good place to start is here http://www.zoneminder.com/ This store sells all sorts of Linux compatible items. http://store.bluecherry.net/SearchResults.asp?Cat=63&Click=51 HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 01:29:02 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:29:02 -0500 Subject: security camera's and linux In-Reply-To: <49AAE5E2.5040709-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> <49AAE5E2.5040709@golden.net> Message-ID: <49AB365E.8060600@linuxcaffe.ca> John Myshrall wrote: > A good place to start is here > > http://www.zoneminder.com/ We use zoneminder at the caffe in combination with a 4 inpot ntsc video card AND usb webcam inputs. While I understand it's a bear to configure (thanks Seneca) it is capable of several modes and gives the ability to define image zones in conjunction with motion triggered alarms. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 01:42:37 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:42:37 -0500 Subject: security camera's and linux In-Reply-To: <49AB365E.8060600-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> <49AAE5E2.5040709@golden.net> <49AB365E.8060600@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880903011742n2c1e7aacua1247a3fdd842bf4@mail.gmail.com> Hey Dave, Do you have the hard drive and computer hidden? Whats stopping punks taking your computer with the videos? On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 8:29 PM, David J Patrick wrote: > John Myshrall wrote: >> >> A good place to start is here >> >> http://www.zoneminder.com/ > > We use zoneminder at the caffe in combination with a 4 inpot ntsc video card > AND usb webcam inputs. While I understand it's a bear to configure (thanks > Seneca) it is capable of several modes and gives the ability to define image > zones in conjunction with motion triggered alarms. > djp > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 02:35:49 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:35:49 -0500 Subject: security camera's and linux In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880903011742n2c1e7aacua1247a3fdd842bf4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> <49AAE5E2.5040709@golden.net> <49AB365E.8060600@linuxcaffe.ca> <32f6a8880903011742n2c1e7aacua1247a3fdd842bf4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AB4605.5090908@linuxcaffe.ca> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hey Dave, > > Do you have the hard drive and computer hidden? duh ;-) Whats stopping punks > taking your computer with the videos? y'know, locks, alarms, video security and a sack of lethal pit-vipers plus the fact that we're using dusty crappy outdated hardware not suitable for punk-grade gaming and the oh-so-clever hiding.. pffff ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 03:03:10 2009 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 22:03:10 -0500 Subject: icecast2 server In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0902271402n203d1e10t66356406651d84fc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200902271548.44738.mervc@eol.ca> <200902271642.15117.mervc@eol.ca> <99a6c38f0902271402n203d1e10t66356406651d84fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200903012203.10908.mervc@eol.ca> On Friday 27 February 2009, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Sockso might be an alternative. I tried it briefly when it came on a > recent LFX coverdisc (last month?) and was rather impressed with the > implemetation. > I set it up but not sure how to use it on my LAN. I certainly don't want my CD music files out on the Net. On the workstation running Sockso, I can view the Webpage by using 'localhost' instead of the IP address supplied for Sockso. However none of my computers on the LAN can resolve a '207.112.41.120' address. Some messages on the forum indicate people have it working locally but perhaps they have a local Webserver or ???. At any rate nice application, another proof that Java programs can be quite good. cheerio -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.10 KMail 1.9.9 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 04:23:49 2009 From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen Thornton) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 23:23:49 -0500 Subject: Presentations and presenters In-Reply-To: References: <1235769519.5402.45.camel@leon> <49A9782C.60709@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1235967829.4261.6.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> Gimp from the ground up, please, please, please! Maureen On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 10:57 -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > Richard, > > > >> 3. Think again about what would interest you in a > presentation topic. > >> Have you done something recently that took more time than > it might have, > >> had the task been illustrated at a previous meeting? Turn > that in to a > >> talk for TLUG that will save time for us when we have to > perform that > >> task. We want more voices to be heard at TLUG and more > perspectives. > > - I wonder if running samba with AD would count as an interesting > presentation. Or setting up openldap, Kerberos etc to emulate AD as > practically as possible. > - On a more creative side, lots of people tend to think gimp have a > higher learning curve than photoshop. I hope his would be an > interesting topic for both novice and experienced Linux users. > > > > > > > If people want to throw out topics that interest them, > maybe someone > > who feels comfortable with one of the suggested topics will > take it on. > > > > I can't think of anything right now, but I feel > comfortable > > presenting. Personally, I'd grab an interesting topic I > thought I could > > do. Assuming of course my past presentations didn't bore > people tooooo > > much. ;) > > > > Suggestions? > > > > Madi > > > William > > > > > Well, I would be happy to recycle the talk I gave last Tuesday > at > NewTLUG, not like that talk got a fair hearing first time > out :-) . > > Colin McGregor > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > -- > For a list of all the ways technology has failed to improve the > quality of life, please press three. > ?Alice Kahn > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 07:45:45 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:45:45 +0700 Subject: Presentations and presenters In-Reply-To: <49A9782C.60709-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1235769519.5402.45.camel@leon> <49A9782C.60709@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0903012345h26810615n963d4a3f987bd296@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 12:45 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: ... > ?Suggestions? Has TLUG ever done the lightning-talk format? Line up presenters for individual 5 minute talks. Set a clock. You can use up to but not over 5 minutes. Even if it doesn't fill the TLUG agenda, it could bookend a shorter presentation. If you're boring, then it's only 5 minutes. If you're really good, maybe you'll consider a full talk some other meeting. It could be a chance to introduce new projects, talk about what you're working on and/or solicit help. It's a very effective format elsewhere in the world. I'd lead the thing, but I won't be able to attend a meeting until at least May. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 12:12:18 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:12:18 -0500 Subject: OT: Drupal in The New York Times Message-ID: <49ABCD22.1040709@teksavvy.com> The New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/nyregion/02open.html March 2, 2009 Software System?s Fans Gather to Talk Code By COLIN MOYNIHAN There were people who were proud to call themselves tech geeks and a few who admitted being near-Luddites, and there was at least one person who called herself a radical technologist. They joined book publishers, librarians and computer consultants, some of whom had come from as far as Ireland and Brazil, at the Polytechnic Institute of New York University in Downtown Brooklyn on Saturday for something akin to a happening for the Internet age ? Drupal Camp. Drupal is free software used to run Web sites, and participants at the event said they were drawn there, despite differences in backgrounds and ideologies, by a belief in an almost utopian form of technological cooperation. ?We?re throwing out the idea of software as a commodity and replacing it with the idea of labor and participation being valued more than ownership,? Eric Goldhagen, a software consultant and developer from the East Village and a primary organizer of the event, told the gathering. Drupal was developed by Dries Buytaert , a Belgian programmer, and nearly 10 years ago he made the Drupal code public, giving up formal control of his creation and letting people use it without charge with the stipulation that they share modifications and improvements with one another. In keeping with that decentralized spirit, after Mr. Goldhagen?s introductory address the participants put the conference schedule to a vote, then scattered to take part in workshops and discussions. ?This is a very social event,? said Cary Gordon, president of a software development company in Los Angeles. ?The users and the developers are one and the same and there?s a certain amount of esprit de corps that goes along with that.? Dozens of Drupal Camps are held around the world annually, yet Mr. Goldhagen said the first was held in New York in 2006, when Drupal was a relatively obscure system, used mainly by nonprofit organizations and small businesses. Many of those initial users turned to Drupal to avoid licensing fees charged by companies like Microsoft . But other users liked Drupal because they were free to change it themselves by writing new code, or because they were drawn to the sense of community formed when users began to communicate with one another about how to resolve technical snags and how to shape the software?s future. In recent years Drupal (the name, according to its Web site, is derived from druppel, the Dutch word used to describe a drop of water) has become more popular. Large companies like Sony use it, as do organizations like Human Rights Watch and the Pulitzer Prizes . The federal Web site recovery.gov , a clearinghouse of information on the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, recently signed into law by President Obama , is run on Drupal. Chris Ridder, a residential fellow at the Center for the Internet and Society at Stanford Law School, said that there was an ongoing debate about the pros and cons of free and open-source software, but added that such software has recently become more widely used, in part because of its flexibility. As might be expected, the conference itself was free. Sponsors donated food and drinks, and instructors volunteered their time. So, 50 beginners gathered in Room 204, illuminated only by the glow of laptop screens and a beam from an overhead projector as one of those volunteers, Peter Dowling, 43, of Stamford, Conn., led them though the steps of installing Drupal on their computers. Down the hall, in Room 200, about 20 advanced users listened to David Burns, a consultant from Philadelphia, describe ways to speed up a sluggish Web site. The audience clapped, and Mr. Burns, 27, announced that he could be found later at a nearby bar, the Zombie Hut. Some of the participants said that they were motivated to use Drupal mainly by a sense of pragmatism. Others cited principle. The radical technologist, Mallory Knodel, 25, of the Lower East Side, writes code to help further leftist causes. She said Drupal had been helpful for her group, May First/People Link, a network that includes trade unions and political pranksters who oppose globalization. And Andy Thornton, 36, a programmer from Astoria, Queens, who works at the United Nations , said the egalitarian nature of Drupal was ?almost the epitome of what the Web promised at the beginning. This is very much a democracy. It doesn?t have a top-down authority.? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 12:20:20 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:20:20 -0500 Subject: Presentations and presenters In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0903012345h26810615n963d4a3f987bd296-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1235769519.5402.45.camel@leon> <49A9782C.60709@alteeve.com> <92ee967a0903012345h26810615n963d4a3f987bd296@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ABCF04.4050205@teksavvy.com> Mike Kallies wrote: > On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 12:45 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > ... > >> Suggestions? >> > > Has TLUG ever done the lightning-talk format? Line up presenters for > individual 5 minute talks. Set a clock. You can use up to but not > over 5 minutes. Even if it doesn't fill the TLUG agenda, it could > bookend a shorter presentation. > > If you're boring, then it's only 5 minutes. If you're really good, > maybe you'll consider a full talk some other meeting. > > It could be a chance to introduce new projects, talk about what you're > working on and/or solicit help. It's a very effective format > elsewhere in the world. I'd lead the thing, but I won't be able to > attend a meeting until at least May. > > -Mike > > With all the Content Management Systems around, perhaps this will be a good format for an intro to CMS'es? My 2 cents :-) Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 12:27:55 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 07:27:55 -0500 Subject: Presentations and presenters In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0903012345h26810615n963d4a3f987bd296-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1235769519.5402.45.camel@leon> <49A9782C.60709@alteeve.com> <92ee967a0903012345h26810615n963d4a3f987bd296@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ABD0CB.6050501@rogers.com> Mike Kallies wrote: > On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 12:45 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > ... > >> Suggestions? >> > > Has TLUG ever done the lightning-talk format? Line up presenters for > individual 5 minute talks. Set a clock. You can use up to but not > over 5 minutes. Even if it doesn't fill the TLUG agenda, it could > bookend a shorter presentation. > The hecklers will more than fill the remaining time. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 14:33:39 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:33:39 -0500 Subject: Presentations and presenters In-Reply-To: <1235967829.4261.6.camel-TYYFDwxCHJP5OPYHOmv4JA@public.gmane.org> References: <1235769519.5402.45.camel@leon> <49A9782C.60709@alteeve.com> <1235967829.4261.6.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Maureen Thornton wrote: > Gimp from the ground up, please, please, please! > Maureen I know we've had this talk; Stephanie Fox was, a long time ago, the "heavily hit-on sole female TLUG attendee", and despite this ;-), did a talk on GIMP which she was using professionally: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/GIMP http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Stephanie_Fox She disappeared when she finished school; I'm not aware that any other GIMP experts have emerged. Alternatives to GIMP have since emerged; I'd think that there could be useful variations on the topic. I don't care if it's GIMP I use, or something else; it *would* be useful to hear about the "care and feeding" of graphics tools from the perspective of "How Do You Clean Up Your Photos???" -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html W. C. Fields - "I never drink water because of the disgusting things that fish do in it." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 14:41:54 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 09:41:54 -0500 Subject: OT: Drupal in The New York Times In-Reply-To: <49ABCD22.1040709-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <49ABCD22.1040709@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090302144154.GA9061@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 07:12:18AM -0500, Meng Cheah wrote: > The New York Times > > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/nyregion/02open.html I realize that copy-and-paste is easy, but it is actually not OK to reproduce the text of an article in its entirety and redistribute it - even with attribution, under standard copyright. If the NYT still required login to view the articles, and you wished to protest that restriction you would at least have some reason to illegally redistribute their articles, but even that reason is invalid. Republishing, with attribution, an excerpt with your commentary would be both legal and much more welcome. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 14:47:14 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:47:14 -0500 Subject: Presentations and presenters In-Reply-To: References: <1235769519.5402.45.camel@leon> <49A9782C.60709@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1236005234.5402.190.camel@leon> On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 10:57 -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > Richard, > - I wonder if running samba with AD would count as an interesting > presentation. Or setting up openldap, Kerberos etc to emulate AD as > practically as possible. Most any topic can be interesting when the presenter does a good job. For Samba + AD + openldap + Kerberos, I'm guessing that there is a lot of material ;-). So I'd suggest the presenter keep a really tight focus on a specific task, rather than trying (in vain) to cover everything. So it might be: - introduction to each tool and it's purpose. (AD does this, Kerberos does that) - 5 min - description of the goal. (Build a music server for a small office environment with multiple platforms) - 3 min - go through the steps to get there. Cover the key pitfalls to avoid and interesting lessons learned. 40 - 80 min - review and Q&A - 15 to 30 min - applause, curtain call, encore, bow, exeunt. > - On a more creative side, lots of people tend to think gimp have a > higher learning curve than photoshop. I hope his would be an > interesting topic for both novice and experienced Linux users. I've done a brief intro to GIMP and seen good introductions to Blender and Inkscape. I'd love to see somebody demonstrate Scribus properly. Madi said, but the attribution was lost: > > If people want to throw out topics that interest them, > maybe someone > > who feels comfortable with one of the suggested topics will > take it on. > > > > I can't think of anything right now, but I feel > comfortable > > presenting. Personally, I'd grab an interesting topic I > thought I could do. Hear that? That was the sound of Madi volunteering to do the topic of our choice in March. ;-) What's it going to be, everybody? I say, "Scribus". Best regards, Richard -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 14:54:29 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:54:29 -0500 Subject: March topic and presenter Message-ID: <1236005669.5402.198.camel@leon> Hi everybody, I propose that we accept Colin McGregor's generous offer to reprise his February NewTLUG talk for Tuesday, 10 March 2009 at TLUG. So March will be Linux Games. Colin, please put your abstract on the site as soon as it is back up. (Down Monday morning) This will make two consecutive presentations by the new "talk-coordination-committee" and that Is Not The Goal of the committee. We want to hear other voices and perspectives. We have a good general topics and presenters conversation going. Please continue in that thread. That thread or similar threads should be an ongoing conversation of what we want to see presented (and who's going to do it)? Best regards, Richard -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 14:59:01 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:59:01 -0500 Subject: OT: Drupal in The New York Times In-Reply-To: <20090302144154.GA9061-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <49ABCD22.1040709@teksavvy.com> <20090302144154.GA9061@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <49ABF435.4020907@teksavvy.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 07:12:18AM -0500, Meng Cheah wrote: > >> The New York Times >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/nyregion/02open.html >> > > I realize that copy-and-paste is easy, but it is actually not OK > to reproduce the text of an article in its entirety and redistribute it > - even with attribution, under standard copyright. > > If the NYT still required login to view the articles, and you wished to > protest that restriction you would at least have some reason to > illegally redistribute their articles, but even that reason is invalid. > > Republishing, with attribution, an excerpt with your commentary would be > both legal and much more welcome. > Thanks. IANAL -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 15:00:30 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:00:30 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list Message-ID: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> topics requested / suggested. Add yours too! AD + Samba + Kerberos + openldap Scribus The GIMP Blender Inkscape Dia Intro to CMSes as lightning talks (oooh!) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 15:50:48 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:50:48 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> Message-ID: <49AC0058.4090504@teksavvy.com> Richard Weait wrote: > topics requested / suggested. Add yours too! > > AD + Samba + Kerberos + openldap > Scribus > The GIMP > Blender > Inkscape > Dia > Intro to CMSes as lightning talks (oooh!) > or just Intro to CMSes :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 15:57:35 2009 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:57:35 -0500 Subject: NewTLUG and Seneca? In-Reply-To: References: <8369b0fa0902270731k47fc15behb273eceaa93897e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just to add my own two cents into the fray... I think another factor that affects meeting attendance is one of the original comments that there isn't enough notice given about the meeting. Herb sends out the notice a day or two ahead of time, which may not be enough. It's the same with TLUG (or GTALUG, or whatever it's called these days). I get the notice 1 or 2 days before, and by then, it's too late for me to rework my schedule to come out. Another factor may be that there isn't a set topic list, that we kinda come up with topics on the fly, usually because NewTLUG has had a difficult time getting people other than the same 3 or 4 to speak about something. Usually we're scrambling at the end to come up with something to talk about. Some ideas I had about this: - At the next meeting, come up with a proposed schedule of the year, soliciting topics from the attendees at one of the meetings. Don't necessarily put speaker names next to the topics, just have a list of them. That way, people know what topics are coming up, and can plan to be at the ones they care about. - Have some sort of RSVP system (like Matt mentioned), so the organizers can get an idea as to how many people are willing to attend. - Send out an email reminder notice a week ahead of time. Something simple, with the topic discussed, speaker (if assigned), and again a reminder to send an RSVP if you're going to attend. - Have somewhere online that lists the topics select for each month, and make sure it's updated with speaker info, and also the meeting locations (IBM, Seneca, York, wherever). pm -- Paul Mora Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 16:13:22 2009 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:13:22 -0500 Subject: Presentations and presenters In-Reply-To: <1236005234.5402.190.camel@leon> References: <1235769519.5402.45.camel@leon> <49A9782C.60709@alteeve.com> <1236005234.5402.190.camel@leon> Message-ID: Perhaps it would be useful if someone came up with a "talk template"; a checklist of sorts that budding presenters can use as a guideline. That way it's not so intimidating to do a talk and come up with a presentation from scratch. Something like what Richard described: - introduction to each tool and it's purpose - 5 min - description of the goal. - 3 min - go through the steps to get there. Cover the key pitfalls to avoid and interesting lessons learned. 40 - 80 min - review and Q&A - 15 to 30 min - applause, curtain call, encore, bow, exeunt. It could be posted on the GTALUG site so people can access it. A while back I did a NewTLUG talk on how to give a presentation. If anyone's interested in coming up with a talk template, I'd gladly donate the slides I made. pm -- Paul Mora Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 16:32:26 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:32:26 -0500 Subject: security camera's and linux In-Reply-To: References: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090302163226.GM23245@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Mar 01, 2009 at 11:42:09AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Cyo K > > [I hate HTML in mail] Well it was actually multipart and hence had both plain text and html. Perhaps your mail client needs to have explainined to it that given the choice you prefer it to show the plain text version. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 16:33:15 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:33:15 -0500 Subject: security camera's and linux In-Reply-To: References: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090302163315.GN23245@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Mar 01, 2009 at 11:49:43AM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> | From: Cyo K >> >> [I hate HTML in mail] > > It's astonishing how many people ignore the request in the footer > of every TLUG message: The plain text version of the email was wrapped at 80 columns. Blame your email client if it showed you the html version instead. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 17:10:36 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:10:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: <49AC0058.4090504-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> <49AC0058.4090504@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: Topics I'd like to talk about: - Netfilter (aka iptables) - Backups Cheers, Rob On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Meng Cheah wrote: > Richard Weait wrote: >> topics requested / suggested. Add yours too! >> >> AD + Samba + Kerberos + openldap >> Scribus >> The GIMP >> Blender >> Inkscape >> Dia >> Intro to CMSes as lightning talks (oooh!) >> > or just Intro to CMSes :-) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 17:26:59 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:26:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: security camera's and linux In-Reply-To: References: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Your message suggests that you are thinking of real-time monitoring > with only one camera. If that is the case, why do you need a computer > at all? One idea I have pondered is delta monitoring. The idea is to send an alert if consecutive images differ by more than a small threshold. The tricky bit would be figuring out an efficient way to do the delta calculation. This approach is not compatible with indoor cats. Of course this problem applies to many security systems. > How quickly do you expect "authorities" to responds? My guess is that > most burglars have evolved behaviour that is quick enough that they > are done before police respond. (But maybe I've watched too much TV.) I understand a burglar normally spends an average of about 3 minutes inside a house so catching them in the act is very difficult. OTOH, police are normally familiar with the "likely suspects" in any given area and may be able to use video footage to identify the person well enough so they know who to call on. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 17:21:22 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:21:22 -0500 Subject: March topic and presenter In-Reply-To: <1236005669.5402.198.camel@leon> References: <1236005669.5402.198.camel@leon> Message-ID: On 3/2/09, Richard Weait wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I propose that we accept Colin McGregor's generous offer to reprise his > February NewTLUG talk for Tuesday, 10 March 2009 at TLUG. So March will > be Linux Games. Colin, please put your abstract on the site as soon as > it is back up. (Down Monday morning) > > This will make two consecutive presentations by the new > "talk-coordination-committee" and that Is Not The Goal of the committee. > We want to hear other voices and perspectives. > > We have a good general topics and presenters conversation going. Please > continue in that thread. That thread or similar threads should be an > ongoing conversation of what we want to see presented (and who's going > to do it)? > > Best regards, > Richard Okay, the summary I did for NewTLUG is as follows: ----------------------- Topic: Linux may not be as good a game platform as some other operating systems, but that doesn't mean there aren't some fantastic games available for Linux. This month Colin McGregor will be taking an overview look at a range of games available under Linux, ranging from some old favourites to current games. If there is interest, for the Linux laptop users we will attempt to run the multiplayer version of "Battle for Wesnoth". Contact colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org if you're interested. --------------------- As soon as I can get into tlug.ss.org I will update the upcoming events info. with the above info... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 17:35:37 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:35:37 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> <49AC0058.4090504@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <49AC18E9.1090609@teksavvy.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > Topics I'd like to talk about: > > - Netfilter (aka iptables) > - Backups > > Cheers, > > Rob Great. Thanks, Rob :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 17:36:52 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:36:52 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> Message-ID: <20090302173652.GC6548@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 10:00:30AM -0500, Richard Weait wrote: >topics requested / suggested. Add yours too! > >AD + Samba + Kerberos + openldap >Scribus >The GIMP >Blender >Inkscape >Dia >Intro to CMSes as lightning talks (oooh!) Graphviz Cfengine lightning talks about Linux groupware. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 17:41:13 2009 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:41:13 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> <49AC0058.4090504@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > Topics I'd like to talk about: > > - Netfilter (aka iptables) > - Backups Do you ever in your practice get a chance to use some of the more "esoteric" modules, like TARPIT, MIRROR, recent, or nth? I gave a talk a few years ago at Linuxworld in Toronto on that. I'd always wondered what some of those modules were used for; everyone always uses the same old ones, but yet there are 85 modules in my /lib/iptables directory. Just curious, pm -- Paul Mora Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 17:42:19 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:42:19 -0500 Subject: Presentations and presenters In-Reply-To: References: <1235769519.5402.45.camel@leon> <49A9782C.60709@alteeve.com> <1235967829.4261.6.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280903020942x1c2c9056y95423d06e9a20a55@mail.gmail.com> 2009/3/2 Christopher Browne : > On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Maureen Thornton wrote: >> Gimp from the ground up, please, please, please! >> Maureen > > I know we've had this talk; Stephanie Fox was, a long time ago, the > "heavily hit-on sole female TLUG attendee", and despite this ;-), did > a talk on GIMP which she was using professionally: > http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/GIMP > http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Stephanie_Fox > > She disappeared when she finished school; I'm not aware that any other > GIMP experts have emerged. > > Alternatives to GIMP have since emerged; I'd think that there could be > useful variations on the topic. ?I don't care if it's GIMP I use, or > something else; it *would* be useful to hear about the "care and > feeding" of graphics tools from the perspective of "How Do You Clean > Up Your Photos???" I did a GIMP presentation back in 2002 (not in Toronto), and have continued to use the GIMP heavily since. I could easily be convinced to update the presentation and give it at GTALUG. But not for a couple months, and don't put me on the calendar without talking to me first please. I'll second Chris's votes: I'd really like to see presentations on Scribus and especially Inkscape. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 17:51:31 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:51:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> <49AC0058.4090504@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Paul Mora wrote: > Do you ever in your practice get a chance to use some of the more > "esoteric" modules, like TARPIT, MIRROR, recent, or nth? I gave a I've looked for reasons to use MIRROR and never found a legitimate one ;) I do sometimes use other unusual features though. At home I'm currently marking packets to route them over a VPN to the US so I can view a site that may or may not have hulu in the name. Hmm the talk should include an example of this sort of configuration. You're right though that 99% of the time everyone seems to use the same old targets and capabilities for the firewall. I make heavy use of chains to simplify the rulesets and improve efficiency and I'll cover this. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 18:07:06 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 13:07:06 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: <20090302173652.GC6548-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> <20090302173652.GC6548@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <1236017226.5402.357.camel@leon> On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 12:36 -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 10:00:30AM -0500, Richard Weait wrote: > >topics requested / suggested. Add yours too! Please spin off discussion of a specific topic in a new thread. > >AD + Samba + Kerberos + openldap > >Scribus > >The GIMP > >Blender > >Inkscape > >Dia > >Intro to CMSes as lightning talks (oooh!) > Graphviz > Cfengine > lightning talks about Linux groupware. netfilter (Iptables) Backups -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 18:28:41 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:28:41 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> Message-ID: <32f6a8880903021028o613e07a1ta3360e4b40201384@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Richard Weait wrote: > topics requested / suggested. ?Add yours too! > > AD + Samba + Kerberos + openldap > Scribus > The GIMP > Blender > Inkscape > Dia > Intro to CMSes as lightning talks (oooh!) > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I would like to see how to contribute to an linux open source project and start coding patches in the beginning and then start features. For example, where to find information, where to look to apply patches on how its compiled. For example: A friend tried joining amarok, and he got bogged down at just creating the development platform however there was no documentation on the initial setup. Or if you wanted to help contribute to the kernel, (is this possible on your own time) or linux utilities. Where would you start as a beginner coder? Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 18:29:14 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:29:14 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: <20090302173652.GC6548-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> <20090302173652.GC6548@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280903021029y253ab7e7wcdc009d7df474355@mail.gmail.com> 2009/3/2 Neil Watson : > Graphviz I could also (in addition to the GIMP, mentioned in another thread) do a basic talk about Graphviz. It's a _very_ quirky product ... but for the most part it works fairly well. Graphviz is to diagrams as Lyx is to word processing: you think about the content, Graphviz does the visuals and you have very little say in how they turn out. Again, please contact me if you're thinking about putting this on the schedule. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 18:34:00 2009 From: el.fontanero-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:34:00 -0500 Subject: security camera's and linux In-Reply-To: References: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> Your message suggests that you are thinking of real-time monitoring >> with only one camera. ?If that is the case, why do you need a computer >> at all? > > One idea I have pondered is delta monitoring. ?The idea is to send an alert > if consecutive images differ by more than a small threshold. ?The tricky bit > would be figuring out an efficient way to do the delta calculation. > > This approach is not compatible with indoor cats. ?Of course this problem > applies to many security systems. > >> How quickly do you expect "authorities" to responds? ?My guess is that >> most burglars have evolved behaviour that is quick enough that they >> are done before police respond. ?(But maybe I've watched too much TV.) > > I understand a burglar normally spends an average of about 3 minutes inside > a house so catching them in the act is very difficult. > > OTOH, police are normally familiar with the "likely suspects" in any given > area and may be able to use video footage to identify the person well enough > so they know who to call on. > I've just started using a program named "motion" (debian etc. packages available): http://www.lavrsen.dk/twiki/bin/view/Motion/WebHome It does a good, easily and flexibly configurable job of monitoring /dev/videoX, be it a webcam or an NTSC capture. Cheers, ML -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 18:39:45 2009 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:39:45 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880903021028o613e07a1ta3360e4b40201384-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> <32f6a8880903021028o613e07a1ta3360e4b40201384@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Some topics I'd like to see covered in TLUG or NewTLUG: - Subversion (basic set up and usage and branching) - Scribus - DBUS and how it integrates with hotplug - Sound demystified (OSS, ALSA, ESD, arts, and pulseaudio, and how they work/don't work) - GIMP basics (part 1) and advanced features (part 2) - Music collection management expanded (editing ID3 tags, playing MP3, AAC, etc. syncing with iPod or other devices, etc., and network streaming) pm -- Paul Mora Registered Linux user #2065 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 18:45:09 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 13:45:09 -0500 Subject: TLUG topic voting 2009Q2 Message-ID: <1236019509.5402.365.camel@leon> Vote here for topics you'd like to see presented. Vote once for each topic you'd like to see presented, I've enabled repeat votes. http://weait.com/content/tlug-topics-2009q2 Note that the topic popularity is only part of the scheduling formula. We still need a volunteer and a mutually acceptable date. Add topics (for Q3?) in the comments. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 18:44:25 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 13:44:25 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> <32f6a8880903021028o613e07a1ta3360e4b40201384@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AC2909.70209@dinamis.com> Paul Mora wrote: > Some topics I'd like to see covered in TLUG or NewTLUG: > > - Subversion (basic set up and usage and branching) I can do that at some point. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 18:54:29 2009 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:54:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: TLUG topic voting 2009Q2 In-Reply-To: <1236019509.5402.365.camel@leon> References: <1236019509.5402.365.camel@leon> Message-ID: <18032.173.34.8.54.1236020069.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Richard - Repeat votes doesn't work, it behaves like a radiobutton. Peter > Vote here for topics you'd like to see presented. Vote once for each > topic you'd like to see presented, I've enabled repeat votes. > > http://weait.com/content/tlug-topics-2009q2 > > Note that the topic popularity is only part of the scheduling formula. > We still need a volunteer and a mutually acceptable date. > > Add topics (for Q3?) in the comments. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 18:58:38 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 13:58:38 -0500 Subject: TLUG topic voting 2009Q2 In-Reply-To: <18032.173.34.8.54.1236020069.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1236019509.5402.365.camel@leon> <18032.173.34.8.54.1236020069.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1236020318.5402.373.camel@leon> On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 13:54 -0500, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Richard - > > Repeat votes doesn't work, it behaves like a radiobutton. It works fine. Your votes are tallied. The GUI is still a radio button and fails to show you your previous votes because I used a dirty hack ;-) And it is super to see the interest so far! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 19:02:21 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:02:21 -0500 Subject: TLUG topic voting 2009Q2 In-Reply-To: <1236020318.5402.373.camel@leon> References: <1236019509.5402.365.camel@leon> <18032.173.34.8.54.1236020069.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1236020318.5402.373.camel@leon> Message-ID: <1236020541.5402.374.camel@leon> On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 13:58 -0500, Richard Weait wrote: > On Mon, 2009-03-02 at 13:54 -0500, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Richard - > > > > Repeat votes doesn't work, it behaves like a radiobutton. > > It works fine. Your votes are tallied. The GUI is still a radio button > and fails to show you your previous votes because I used a dirty > hack ;-) So you have to vote >> submit >> vote >> submit ... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 19:11:43 2009 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:11:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: TLUG topic voting 2009Q2 In-Reply-To: <1236020541.5402.374.camel@leon> References: <1236019509.5402.365.camel@leon> <18032.173.34.8.54.1236020069.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <1236020318.5402.373.camel@leon> <1236020541.5402.374.camel@leon> Message-ID: <12508.173.34.8.54.1236021103.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > So you have to vote >> submit >> vote >> submit ... > This reminds me of the heading on a memo: "I've got a good idea, you do this instead of me" ;) -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 19:23:48 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:23:48 -0500 Subject: security camera's and linux In-Reply-To: References: <938bcb1e0902282132v518d36abn7fe3e563d1f55ac6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AC3244.7010506@linuxcaffe.ca> Mike wrote: > I've just started using a program named "motion" (debian etc. packages > available): > > http://www.lavrsen.dk/twiki/bin/view/Motion/WebHome > > It does a good, easily and flexibly configurable job of monitoring > /dev/videoX, be it a webcam or an NTSC capture. motion is (iirc) at the core of zoneminder. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 19:30:15 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:30:15 -0500 Subject: Presentations and presenters In-Reply-To: References: <1235769519.5402.45.camel@leon> <49A9782C.60709@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880903021130h255520b4sa3b2bae84ac3e292@mail.gmail.com> I like this idea as well. Very cool idea. On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 10:57 AM, William Muriithi wrote: > Richard, > >> >> 3. ?Think again about what would interest you in a presentation topic. >> >> Have you done something recently that took more time than it might >> >> have, >> >> had the task been illustrated at a previous meeting? ?Turn that in to a >> >> talk for TLUG that will save time for us when we have to perform that >> >> task. ?We want more voices to be heard at TLUG and more perspectives. > > - I wonder if running samba with AD would count as an interesting > presentation. Or setting up openldap, Kerberos etc to emulate AD as > practically as possible. > - On a more creative side, lots of people tend to think gimp have a higher > learning curve than photoshop. I hope his would be an interesting topic for > both novice and experienced Linux users. > >> >> > >> > ? ?If people want to throw out topics that interest them, maybe someone >> > who feels comfortable with one of the suggested topics will take it on. >> > >> > ? ?I can't think of anything right now, but I feel comfortable >> > presenting. Personally, I'd grab an interesting topic I thought I could >> > do. Assuming of course my past presentations didn't bore people tooooo >> > much. ;) >> > >> > ? ?Suggestions? >> > >> > Madi > > William >> >> Well, I would be happy to recycle the talk I gave last Tuesday at >> NewTLUG, not like that talk got a fair hearing first time out :-) . >> >> Colin McGregor >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > For a list of all the ways technology has failed to improve the quality of > life, please press three. > ?Alice Kahn > > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 20:55:57 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:55:57 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> <49AC0058.4090504@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <49AC47DD.6060708@alteeve.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > Topics I'd like to talk about: > > - Netfilter (aka iptables) > - Backups > > Cheers, > > Rob I did a talk on Netfilter/IPTables a few years back. I'd be happy to brush it off and update it (time permitting, I could try adding some of those esoteric settings Paul's asking for). Of course, I'd need to scrape the rust out of my brain first, so March would be too soon. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 21:12:39 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:12:39 -0500 Subject: Contributing to free software projects Message-ID: On 2009-03-02, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I would like to see how to contribute to an linux open source project > and start coding patches in the beginning and then start features. > > For example, where to find information, where to look to apply patches > on how its compiled. As a quick first reaction... "That depends *heavily* on which project it is." Every open source project is potentially a *separate* political entity (occasionally they share bits, but that's not necessarily the case), and dealing with a project is a political negotiation. The Free Software Foundation is quite a bit like the UN, in that context: - Their troops wear distinctive funny hats. - People ridicule both organizations as being ineffective. (When did the FSF last release a version of Linux??? Why can't GNU Emacs and XEmacs merge???) - Both would *like* to influence policies of the "nations" that they overlook, but generally don't, terribly much... - You might imagine it to be sufficient to talk to the UN or to the FSF, but in practice, to do anything particularly practical, it is necessary to establish diplomatic relations with any individual nation that you actually want to deal with. - Customs differ from nation to nation, so it is absolutely insufficient to learn one set of customs and attempt to apply them more widely. Notably, GPL, Open Source, and BSD Licensed somewhat correspond to the historically brittle relations between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam; while there *are* relationships between their origins, there are material relational differences, and treating them identically, and notably using the terms of one in the others' contexts will get peoples' ire up, whether we're talking about: - Ham sandwiches - Wine - Talking to FSF folks about your love of "Open Source" - Telling BSD folks that the GPL "maintains freedom" Free software projects have a *WIDELY* varying sets of forms of governance, and that does really matter. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 21:57:53 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:57:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: mkfs oddity Message-ID: I've got a really big disk for MythTV (1.5T!). Two, actually. Mind you, the reports of problems with these Seagate drives make me regret buying them. But that's not why I'm writing. I'm creating a really big partition and I decided that since Myth files are really big, the file system needn't have a lot of inodes. As you can see, I asked for 100000 inodes (probably 40 times more than I need, but a lot fewer than the default of almost 90 million). So why did it choose to give me 174864 inodes? (Ubuntu 8.10 + MythUbuntu packages + updates) $ sudo mkfs.ext3 -N 100000 /dev/sdf6 mke2fs 1.41.3 (12-Oct-2008) Filesystem label= OS type: Linux Block size=4096 (log=2) Fragment size=4096 (log=2) 174864 inodes, 358090850 blocks 17904542 blocks (5.00%) reserved for the super user First data block=0 Maximum filesystem blocks=4294967296 10929 block groups 32768 blocks per group, 32768 fragments per group 16 inodes per group Superblock backups stored on blocks: 32768, 98304, 163840, 229376, 294912, 819200, 884736, 1605632, 2654208, 4096000, 7962624, 11239424, 20480000, 23887872, 71663616, 78675968, 102400000, 214990848 Writing inode tables: done Creating journal (32768 blocks): done Writing superblocks and filesystem accounting information: done This filesystem will be automatically checked every 33 mounts or 180 days, whichever comes first. Use tune2fs -c or -i to override. $ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From snkiz-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 22:07:48 2009 From: snkiz-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Ck) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:07:48 -0500 Subject: NewTLUG and Seneca? In-Reply-To: <49A6D20C.9040200-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49A6078A.6060204@ualberta.ca> <49A6D20C.9040200@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <6a4686e30903021407s5edd56adv7df01b52c959a3fa@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> At the January meeting one of the questions that was asked was why not >> have the meetings downtown? My answer was that while I don't know why >> it is there seems to be a suburban/downtown split, many people who go >> to one meeting will not go to the other. Then I tossed the question >> out to the 20+ people who were there "How many would not have attended >> the meeting if it had been downtown?". About 3/4 of the people raised >> their hands... >> >> So, because of suburbanits who will not come downtown there is a need >> for meetings out on the edge of the city, but we need (a) location(s) >> people will go to. Put another way, U of T is a fantastic venue, but >> it is in the wrong part of the city for NewTLUG purposes... >> >> When we meet at IBM, it is the IBM office on the north east corner of >> Steeles and Pharmacy. > > Yeah someone explained to me several months ago and after living in Toronto > I now see why; it's just seems easier to either a) stay in the main part of > the city and use the subway or b) stay in the GTA and travel by car.. > crossing that line seems to add pain and frustration. > > The problem is still that the GTA is so **** huge (geographically) on its > own that even York is "far" for people living in, say, Scarborough or > Mississauga. Personally, I avoid driving as much as I can in Toronto. > > I'm sure this is an old discussion, so I'll just attempt to end it with "has > anybody ever proposed a compromise"? Like meeting along a north/south subway > along say around 401 like Yorkdale or Yonge/401? Somewhere you don't have to > take another bus after. I'm assuming there's no good place to meet there.. > > I think your claims on attendance are really due to the subject. There just > aren't many people interested in Linux & Games (unfortunately). Maybe your > January meeting would have attracted downtowners to make up for the lost 3/4 > of the suburbanites that you mention. > > In summary, Toronto is too vast. We need quantum teleportation. :) > > I promise I'll make it to the next NewTLUG if I'm in town and there's > sufficient notice (>= 5 days). I've been meaning to go to both meetings > because I haven't met anybody here yet... > > Marc > > -- > If you want to accomplish something in the world, idealism is not > enough-- you need to choose a method that works to achieve the goal. > In other words, you need to be "pragmatic." > ?-- Richard Stallman > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I'm out by the airport so I may be biased in suggesting Humber? IBM... there is just no way you could get there after work on public transit as some of us use for sole tranportation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 22:17:23 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:17:23 -0500 Subject: mkfs oddity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090302221723.GA12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 04:57:53PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I've got a really big disk for MythTV (1.5T!). Two, actually. Mind > you, the reports of problems with these Seagate drives make me regret > buying them. But that's not why I'm writing. > > I'm creating a really big partition and I decided that since Myth > files are really big, the file system needn't have a lot of inodes. > > As you can see, I asked for 100000 inodes (probably 40 times more than > I need, but a lot fewer than the default of almost 90 million). > > So why did it choose to give me 174864 inodes? > > (Ubuntu 8.10 + MythUbuntu packages + updates) > > $ sudo mkfs.ext3 -N 100000 /dev/sdf6 > mke2fs 1.41.3 (12-Oct-2008) > Filesystem label= > OS type: Linux > Block size=4096 (log=2) > Fragment size=4096 (log=2) > 174864 inodes, 358090850 blocks > 17904542 blocks (5.00%) reserved for the super user > First data block=0 > Maximum filesystem blocks=4294967296 > 10929 block groups Note this ^ > 32768 blocks per group, 32768 fragments per group > 16 inodes per group Note this ^ > Superblock backups stored on blocks: > 32768, 98304, 163840, 229376, 294912, 819200, 884736, 1605632, 2654208, > 4096000, 7962624, 11239424, 20480000, 23887872, 71663616, 78675968, > 102400000, 214990848 > > Writing inode tables: done > Creating journal (32768 blocks): done > Writing superblocks and filesystem accounting information: done > > This filesystem will be automatically checked every 33 mounts or > 180 days, whichever comes first. Use tune2fs -c or -i to override. > $ 10929*16=174864 The number of inodes per group probably has to be a power of 2, so 16 was the closest higher value to what you requested (which would have resulted in about 10 or 11 inodes per group). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 22:18:47 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:18:47 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: <49AC47DD.6060708-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> <49AC0058.4090504@teksavvy.com> <49AC47DD.6060708@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49AC5B47.9010406@ualberta.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Robert Brockway wrote: >> Topics I'd like to talk about: >> >> - Netfilter (aka iptables) >> - Backups >> >> Cheers, >> >> Rob > > I did a talk on Netfilter/IPTables a few years back. I'd be happy to > brush it off and update it (time permitting, I could try adding some of > those esoteric settings Paul's asking for). Of course, I'd need to > scrape the rust out of my brain first, so March would be too soon. I would totally be up for that. I'm sure I've been misusing iptables for the past few years. I added a few to the list of what I'd like to see on Richard Weait's voting page, along with a slight description of each, but just for good measure here are the broad topics posted on the list as well: - Kernel development - Game development under Linux - Debian/Ubuntu packaging tutorial.. how to be a maintainer - Video editing - OpenMosix or any other similar technology that has replaced it - General shell-scripting under Linux for every day user or sysadmin tasks (I can offer to do this one) Maybe slightly off topic, but.. - web dev in Linux, especially ajax or similar technologies Marc -- Patents act as a tax, an innovation tax. -- James Bessen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 22:24:33 2009 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:24:33 -0500 Subject: Questions from a Linux user considering a Macbook In-Reply-To: <49A0716D.7030706-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <499EFF35.9000903@ualberta.ca> <1235256260.11968.15.camel@khider.homenetwork> <61689578-5CF7-4C6D-B0EF-964DBB28C97B@gmail.com> <1235259631.11968.38.camel@khider.homenetwork> <2274b9c30902211146v1114186dw9249d4e42bcceb64@mail.gmail.com> <49A0716D.7030706@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20090302222433.7710E854F1@sarg.ryerson.ca> It's all been pretty-much said, but I thought I'd add a couple of comments. 1) Price: As has been said, at least in notebook-land, I think it's pretty comparable *for comparable machines*. iMacs also seem like fairly good deals. This may be less true in server-land. My ex bought some windows laptop at the same time I got my Titanium; it cost more, and never worked as well. 2) Reliability: I've had lots of "PC" laptops, and now 2 Mac laptops (that Titanium from 2002, and an Air that's about a year old). Reliability seems comparable. However, I encourage you to buy the extended warranty as it covers you from stem to stern and is reasonably priced. Apple replaced almost all of the Titanium over the 3 years of the warranty (I wasn't as gentle as I could have been), and I used it until I got my Air, and it still works fine although the battery-charging circuit is kacked so it doesn't like being unplugged for too long. 3) Software: As has been said, lots of cool stuff. And virtually everything Just Works (tm). Also X lets me ssh -X into my Linux servers to run emacs or do sysadmin stuff. I used Fink a lot on my Titanium; haven't gotten around to installing it on the Air. A lot of things that I needed it for in earlier versions of OS X are now included. 4) Mac OS X versus Linux: my time is worth more than the machoness of rolling my own. That's why I went to the Mac (originally on my laptop, now on my desktop), and I'm certainly happy I did. On the other hand Linux has improved markedly over that period, and a lot more stuff works smoothly there, now. My server/myth-machine at home has been up 85 days. My Mac laptop about the same. I'm happily in both worlds. (As opposed to how I'd feel if Windows were my only alternative to Linux!) Hope this helps. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 22:29:41 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:29:41 -0500 Subject: mkfs oddity In-Reply-To: <20090302221723.GA12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090302221723.GA12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 2009-03-02, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 04:57:53PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> I've got a really big disk for MythTV (1.5T!). Two, actually. Mind >> you, the reports of problems with these Seagate drives make me regret >> buying them. But that's not why I'm writing. >> >> I'm creating a really big partition and I decided that since Myth >> files are really big, the file system needn't have a lot of inodes. >> >> As you can see, I asked for 100000 inodes (probably 40 times more than >> I need, but a lot fewer than the default of almost 90 million). >> >> So why did it choose to give me 174864 inodes? >> >> (Ubuntu 8.10 + MythUbuntu packages + updates) >> >> $ sudo mkfs.ext3 -N 100000 /dev/sdf6 >> mke2fs 1.41.3 (12-Oct-2008) >> Filesystem label= >> OS type: Linux >> Block size=4096 (log=2) >> Fragment size=4096 (log=2) >> 174864 inodes, 358090850 blocks >> 17904542 blocks (5.00%) reserved for the super user >> First data block=0 >> Maximum filesystem blocks=4294967296 >> 10929 block groups > Note this ^ > >> 32768 blocks per group, 32768 fragments per group >> 16 inodes per group > Note this ^ > >> Superblock backups stored on blocks: >> 32768, 98304, 163840, 229376, 294912, 819200, 884736, 1605632, >> 2654208, >> 4096000, 7962624, 11239424, 20480000, 23887872, 71663616, 78675968, >> 102400000, 214990848 >> >> Writing inode tables: done >> Creating journal (32768 blocks): done >> Writing superblocks and filesystem accounting information: done >> >> This filesystem will be automatically checked every 33 mounts or >> 180 days, whichever comes first. Use tune2fs -c or -i to override. >> $ > > 10929*16=174864 > > The number of inodes per group probably has to be a power of 2, so 16 > was the closest higher value to what you requested (which would have > resulted in about 10 or 11 inodes per group). > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 2 23:30:53 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:30:53 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> Message-ID: On 3/2/09, Richard Weait wrote: > topics requested / suggested. Add yours too! > > AD + Samba + Kerberos + openldap > Scribus > The GIMP > Blender > Inkscape > Dia > Intro to CMSes as lightning talks (oooh!) A look at SpamAssassin might be of general interest. My take on the topic a few years ago can be seen here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9272 I wonder what has changed since the above was written :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 3 02:32:54 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:32:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Colin McGregor wrote: > A look at SpamAssassin might be of general interest. My take on the Actually you could expand it to include other anti-spam techniques - RBLs, greylisting, etc. It could end up quite a well rounded anti-spam talk. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 3 16:42:26 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 11:42:26 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> Message-ID: <20090303164226.GB12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 02, 2009 at 06:30:53PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > A look at SpamAssassin might be of general interest. My take on the > topic a few years ago can be seen here: > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9272 > > I wonder what has changed since the above was written :-) . I tried spamassassin for a while. Decided it was useless, and switched to bogofilter, which works very well. Rule based filtering is too error prone and too much work and too slow. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 3 18:22:17 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:22:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Questions from a Linux user considering a Macbook In-Reply-To: <20090302222433.7710E854F1-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090302222433.7710E854F1@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <17300.67509.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Too late and typical of a windows/Mac user to be of interest. Since you didn't say anything that we don't already know, the information content of your email is nil hence not helpful. We already know that your time is more worth than the machoness .... We also know that you don't know that you can have fully supported pre-installed Linux or get it installed for you. EK --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Dave Mason wrote: > From: Dave Mason > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Questions from a Linux user considering a Macbook > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Monday, March 2, 2009, 5:24 PM > It's all been pretty-much said, but I thought I'd > add a couple of comments. > > 1) Price: As has been said, at least in notebook-land, I > think it's > pretty comparable *for comparable machines*. iMacs also > seem like > fairly good deals. This may be less true in server-land. > My ex bought > some windows laptop at the same time I got my Titanium; it > cost more, > and never worked as well. > > 2) Reliability: I've had lots of "PC" > laptops, and now 2 Mac laptops > (that Titanium from 2002, and an Air that's about a > year old). > Reliability seems comparable. However, I encourage you to > buy the > extended warranty as it covers you from stem to stern and > is reasonably > priced. Apple replaced almost all of the Titanium over the > 3 years of > the warranty (I wasn't as gentle as I could have been), > and I used it > until I got my Air, and it still works fine although the > battery-charging circuit is kacked so it doesn't like > being unplugged > for too long. > > 3) Software: As has been said, lots of cool stuff. And > virtually > everything Just Works (tm). Also X lets me ssh -X into my > Linux servers > to run emacs or do sysadmin stuff. I used Fink a lot on my > Titanium; > haven't gotten around to installing it on the Air. A > lot of things that > I needed it for in earlier versions of OS X are now > included. > > 4) Mac OS X versus Linux: my time is worth more than the > machoness of > rolling my own. That's why I went to the Mac > (originally on my laptop, > now on my desktop), and I'm certainly happy I did. On > the other hand > Linux has improved markedly over that period, and a lot > more stuff works > smoothly there, now. My server/myth-machine at home has > been up 85 > days. My Mac laptop about the same. I'm happily in > both worlds. (As > opposed to how I'd feel if Windows were my only > alternative to Linux!) > > Hope this helps. > > ../Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 3 18:29:27 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 10:29:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199737.60280.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Robert Brockway wrote: > From: Robert Brockway > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Topic request / suggestion list > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Monday, March 2, 2009, 9:32 PM > On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > A look at SpamAssassin might be of general interest. > My take on the > > Actually you could expand it to include other anti-spam > techniques - RBLs, greylisting, etc. It could end up quite > a well rounded anti-spam talk. > Or a comparative look at different statistical anti-spam solutions like SpamAssassin, dspam, etc. > Cheers, > EK > Rob > > -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return > policy > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 3 18:44:28 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:44:28 -0500 Subject: Questions from a Linux user considering a Macbook In-Reply-To: <17300.67509.qm-VXI6V/ONsBD5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <17300.67509.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49AD7A8C.80403@ualberta.ca> E K wrote: > Too late and typical of a windows/Mac user to be of interest. Since you didn't say anything that we don't already know, the information content of your email is nil hence not helpful. > > We already know that your time is more worth than the machoness .... We also know that you don't know that you can have fully supported pre-installed Linux or get it installed for you. > First of all: that was unnecessarily harsh. This list gets lots of posts per day.. there are times I get busy and can't keep up for a week or two and I have to spend an hour or two just going through everything I missed. It'd be a shame if I felt less inclined to follow up on something just because I'd get flamed for being "late". Secondly, he started his post with a warning that it was mostly a summary. Thirdly, it /actually was helpful/, to me at least. Nobody had mentioned the extended warranty and with his experience with laptops that info is quite valuable.. and nobody had mentioned tunneling X through ssh, or implied having used fink as much as he did. So, can we all be friends? Thanks. Marc -- Black holes are where God divided by zero. -- Steven Wright -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 3 19:42:04 2009 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:42:04 -0500 Subject: Questions from a Linux user considering a Macbook In-Reply-To: <17300.67509.qm-VXI6V/ONsBD5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <17300.67509.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090303194205.0F221854F1@sarg.ryerson.ca> Dear EK, Did you get out of the bed on the wrong side or something? I have no idea how long you've been using Linux, but based on the number of floppies I used in my first Linux install and the number quoted for early Slackware releases, it appears that I've been using Linux since about 1993. I administered Unix systems for 10 years before that. I currently administer 4 Linux systems, including a laptop and a MythTV server. And I have 2 iMacs (since 2004), a MacBook Titanium (since 2002), and a MacBook Air. So I think I have some perspective. If on the other hand you were asking about Linux versus Windows, you wouldn't hear a peep from me, because I've never had to use Windows (or, in fact, any M$ software) for more than a few minutes at a time. I'm glad Marc got some value from my posting. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 3 20:28:59 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:28:59 -0500 Subject: Topic request / suggestion list In-Reply-To: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> References: <1236006030.5402.204.camel@leon> Message-ID: <49AD930B.4060807@ualberta.ca> Richard Weait wrote: > topics requested / suggested. Add yours too! > > AD + Samba + Kerberos + openldap > Scribus > The GIMP > Blender > Inkscape > Dia > Intro to CMSes as lightning talks (oooh!) > Let me add yet another: GNU screen. I'd be willing to cover this one as well with the usual disclaimer that there may be somebody out there a bit more versed in the subject than me. Marc -- Black holes are where God divided by zero. -- Steven Wright -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 3 21:56:06 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 16:56:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Questions from a Linux user considering a Macbook In-Reply-To: <17300.67509.qm-VXI6V/ONsBD5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <17300.67509.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: | From: E K | | Too late and typical of a windows/Mac user to be of interest. Since you didn't say anything that we don't already know, the information content of your email is nil hence not helpful. | | We already know that your time is more worth than the machoness .... We also know that you don't know that you can have fully supported pre-installed Linux or get it installed for you. [wrap text below 80 columns] I found Dave's post useful and interesting. I think that part of the reason is that I know Dave and hence can calibrate what he's saying. I find that in itself interesting. Kind of meta. PS: I'm finding it a little annoying how much time I'm fiddling with imperfections in computer systems. I don't intend to use OS-X since that would just add to my burdens. I feel guilty every time I neglect generating a bug report. Kind of like walking past an injured person on the sidewalk, only a lot milder. Too bad good bug reports are a lot of work. I've not reported one I saw yesterday in MythWeb: cumulative file size reporting, if the size is 0, is reported as a null string. I did dive into the .php and think I've found the location of the bug, but I don't understand enough about PHP or at least this hunk of it: function nice_filesize in utils.php. function nice_filesize($size) { // If it's less than a kb we just return the size if ($size < kb) return t('$1 B', t($size)); // Otherwise we keep going until the size is in the appropriate measurement range. elseif ($size < mb) return t('$1 KB', t(round($size / kb, ($size < 10 * kb)))); elseif ($size < gb) return t('$1 MB', t(round($size / mb, ($size < 10 * mb)))); elseif ($size < tb) return t('$1 GB', t(round($size / gb, ($size < 10 * gb)))); else return t('$1 TB', t(round($size / tb, ($size < 10 * tb)))); } I have no idea what t() is or where it is defined.. Today, after a Fedora 10 update, and some updating of MS Vista, keystrokes don't work in xterms. Sometimes. If I create a new xterm from my application launcher (in a gnome panel), keystrokes are ignored. But if I create another, keystrokes work in the first, but not the new one. What the heck is going on here? Perhaps I'm the last user of xterm and nobody tested this. I will soon try the Windows solution: reboot and hope for the best. The previous two times I did Fedora 10 updates, I got X problems too. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=487285 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=484636 Why did I do updates today? Because FireFox crashed. Once that happens, I have little state left over that gets lost if I have to reboot. The FF crash is a long standing bug that hits me every few days. The neat thing is that it looks like a fix is known! Oh, and the bug itself isn't in FireFox! https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=20254 Let's hope that the fix gets committed and that distributions pick it up. Oh, and my shiny new pair of 1.5T Seagate drives look to be prone to problems so I've spent a lot of time trying to sort out on the Seagate forum what's actually up with this generation of drives. What a thread: http://forums.seagate.com/stx/board/message?board.id=ata_drives&thread.id=9060&view=by_date_ascending&page=1 Oh, and there are bugs in Seagates diagnostic software: http://forums.seagate.com/stx/board/message?board.id=SeaTool&thread.id=352 And Seagate has been so overwhelmed (or something) that they are unresponsize. Right now, I'm trying to configure Ekiga for my VoIP provider and not getting it right. Dumb, since I've done this before. Why am I doing this? To test a USB headset I bought from Factory Direct. Why isn't the volume control working? More debugging... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 3 22:13:54 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 17:13:54 -0500 Subject: Questions from a Linux user considering a Macbook In-Reply-To: <49AD7A8C.80403-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <17300.67509.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <49AD7A8C.80403@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <49ADABA2.4020500@dinamis.com> Marc Lanctot wrote: > E K wrote: >> Too late and typical of a windows/Mac user to be of interest. Since >> you didn't say anything that we don't already know, the information >> content of your email is nil hence not helpful. > > First of all: that was unnecessarily harsh. If you were taking potshots at people, you might have to face them at some point and deal with the embarrassment if you were wrong about them but you wouldn't have to worry about that if you could hide being some anonymous Yahoo account and tag of "E K", which may or may not even have anything to do with your name. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 00:53:41 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 19:53:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Questions from a Linux user considering a Macbook In-Reply-To: <20090302222433.7710E854F1-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <499EFF35.9000903@ualberta.ca> <1235256260.11968.15.camel@khider.homenetwork> <61689578-5CF7-4C6D-B0EF-964DBB28C97B@gmail.com> <1235259631.11968.38.camel@khider.homenetwork> <2274b9c30902211146v1114186dw9249d4e42bcceb64@mail.gmail.com> <49A0716D.7030706@ualberta.ca> <20090302222433.7710E854F1@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: | From: Dave Mason | 1) Price: As has been said, at least in notebook-land, I think it's | pretty comparable *for comparable machines*. iMacs also seem like | fairly good deals. This may be less true in server-land. The lack of competition causes some surprises. I have a 30" monitor that requires dual link DVI. Same as the 30" Apple monitor. The Mac Mini looked cute but could not support Dual Link DVI. Until the just introduced one: it now can do dual link. But it requires this expensive "cable": http://store.apple.com/ca/product/MB571Z/A $109.00. Besides plugging into the Display Port socket, it needs to connect into a USB socket (probably just for power). Yuck. The Display Port supposedly saves $0.50 licensing fees for the DVI consortium. The ratio between $0.50 and $109.00 seems to make the choice of Display Port silly. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From contact-uc+NVM1kvX9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 17:20:32 2009 From: contact-uc+NVM1kvX9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (I. Khider) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 12:20:32 -0500 Subject: Take-over of Linux.com by the Linux Foundation In-Reply-To: References: <499EFF35.9000903@ualberta.ca> <1235256260.11968.15.camel@khider.homenetwork> <61689578-5CF7-4C6D-B0EF-964DBB28C97B@gmail.com> <1235259631.11968.38.camel@khider.homenetwork> <2274b9c30902211146v1114186dw9249d4e42bcceb64@mail.gmail.com> <49A0716D.7030706@ualberta.ca> <20090302222433.7710E854F1@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1236187232.3854.3.camel@khider.homenetwork> Hello all, I noticed that Linux.com was taken-over by the Linux foundation. If I recall correctly, it used to be a repository for various distributions. Now it is something else. Any ideas or feedback on the switch? Maybe it will be a better repository....who knows... -I- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 14:56:42 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:56:42 -0500 Subject: Questions from a Linux user considering a Macbook In-Reply-To: References: <1235256260.11968.15.camel@khider.homenetwork> <61689578-5CF7-4C6D-B0EF-964DBB28C97B@gmail.com> <1235259631.11968.38.camel@khider.homenetwork> <2274b9c30902211146v1114186dw9249d4e42bcceb64@mail.gmail.com> <49A0716D.7030706@ualberta.ca> <20090302222433.7710E854F1@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20090304145642.GC12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 07:53:41PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The lack of competition causes some surprises. > > I have a 30" monitor that requires dual link DVI. Same as the 30" > Apple monitor. > > The Mac Mini looked cute but could not support Dual Link DVI. Until > the just introduced one: it now can do dual link. But it requires > this expensive "cable": http://store.apple.com/ca/product/MB571Z/A > $109.00. Besides plugging into the Display Port socket, it needs to > connect into a USB socket (probably just for power). Yuck. > > The Display Port supposedly saves $0.50 licensing fees for the DVI > consortium. The ratio between $0.50 and $109.00 seems to make the > choice of Display Port silly. Well some newer 30" monitors do support displayport, but I suspect a new 30" monitor makes your existing price ratio even worse. :) Apple and Dell seem to really be pushing displayport. I guess they really dislike paying license fees at the volumes they do. I certainly think it is way too early to remove DVI from computers given how few displays support it yet. I know the mac mini has limited space, but then stick with what people have, not with what you wish they would buy. Also you can connect DVI to HDMI, while you can't do that from displayport either (without an expensive adapter). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 14:59:48 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:59:48 -0500 Subject: Take-over of Linux.com by the Linux Foundation In-Reply-To: <1236187232.3854.3.camel-egX5H+F/hXEu8BFL9Asa/WHqWbEk1Anr@public.gmane.org> References: <1235256260.11968.15.camel@khider.homenetwork> <61689578-5CF7-4C6D-B0EF-964DBB28C97B@gmail.com> <1235259631.11968.38.camel@khider.homenetwork> <2274b9c30902211146v1114186dw9249d4e42bcceb64@mail.gmail.com> <49A0716D.7030706@ualberta.ca> <20090302222433.7710E854F1@sarg.ryerson.ca> <1236187232.3854.3.camel@khider.homenetwork> Message-ID: <20090304145948.GD12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 12:20:32PM -0500, I. Khider wrote: > I noticed that Linux.com was taken-over by the Linux foundation. If I > recall correctly, it used to be a repository for various distributions. > Now it is something else. > > Any ideas or feedback on the switch? > > Maybe it will be a better repository....who knows... mirrors.kernel.org seems to have lots. http://www.linux.org/dist/list.html seems to have a good list too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 16:00:50 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 11:00:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Questions from a Linux user considering a Macbook In-Reply-To: <20090304145642.GC12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1235256260.11968.15.camel@khider.homenetwork> <61689578-5CF7-4C6D-B0EF-964DBB28C97B@gmail.com> <1235259631.11968.38.camel@khider.homenetwork> <2274b9c30902211146v1114186dw9249d4e42bcceb64@mail.gmail.com> <49A0716D.7030706@ualberta.ca> <20090302222433.7710E854F1@sarg.ryerson.ca> <20090304145642.GC12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Well some newer 30" monitors do support displayport, but I suspect a new | 30" monitor makes your existing price ratio even worse. :) Not that Apple one, as far as I can tell: http://www.apple.com/ca/displays/cinema/specs.html | I certainly think it is way too early to remove DVI from computers given | how few displays support it yet. The Mini has a mini DVI port but it isn't dual-link. That's why you need to get this awkward and expensive cable to support the Apple 30" display. I don't know about other current 30" displays. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 16:06:37 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 11:06:37 -0500 Subject: Questions from a Linux user considering a Macbook In-Reply-To: References: <1235256260.11968.15.camel@khider.homenetwork> <61689578-5CF7-4C6D-B0EF-964DBB28C97B@gmail.com> <1235259631.11968.38.camel@khider.homenetwork> <2274b9c30902211146v1114186dw9249d4e42bcceb64@mail.gmail.com> <49A0716D.7030706@ualberta.ca> <20090302222433.7710E854F1@sarg.ryerson.ca> <20090304145642.GC12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090304160637.GE12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 11:00:50AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Not that Apple one, as far as I can tell: > http://www.apple.com/ca/displays/cinema/specs.html The Dell 3008WPF has displayport. Probably cheaper than the apply model too, and quite likely a better screen as well. > The Mini has a mini DVI port but it isn't dual-link. That's why you > need to get this awkward and expensive cable to support the Apple 30" > display. I don't know about other current 30" displays. Why anyone would not put dual link DVI on a box these days is just silly, unless of course apple's stupid minidvi connector doesn't have enough pins for a dual link connection. displayport (and hdmi) can run higher bitrates per lane and hence do higher resolution with the same number of pins. They could have put a real dvi connector on and left out displayport and the minidvi connector instead. That would have been actually useful. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 16:16:38 2009 From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jing) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 11:16:38 -0500 Subject: stop USB charging Message-ID: Hi, Does anyone know how to turn off device charging via USB but still keep the connection alive? My Google-foo fails me. Is there some file in /sys that can turn off USB device charging? When traveling I like to tether my iPhone over USB for Internet connectivity. But the phone insists on charging itself, which puts a huge drain on my laptop. Thanks, -Jing -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 17:34:30 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:34:30 -0500 Subject: Nvidia on new Debian Testing system Message-ID: <20090304123430.304dd626@teksavvy.com> Setting up Debian for a friend, and it looks like some things have changed with xorg. When I run dpkg-reconfigure, there is nothing in there to change driver, resolution, or anything. I also installed the nvidia config utility, but that failed with a message saying there was a missing 'driver' line in xorg.conf. I checked that file and it doesn't look anything like I'm used to, it just has 'configured device' in the video section. Any tips on how nvidia works with this new xorg setup? -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 17:45:12 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:45:12 -0500 Subject: linksys wireless on Debian Testing Message-ID: <20090304124512.481ea546@teksavvy.com> Roadblock number two... System has a Linksys WMP54G wireless LAN card, and it seems to be recognized by the system properly, but it could not get a dhcp offer on boot and nothing shows up in the wireless network browser. This is what I get from hwinfo: maudib:/home/lajolla# hwinfo --wlan 03: PCI 507.0: 0282 WLAN controller [Created at pci.310] UDI: /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/pci_1814_201 Unique ID: y9sn.07ImaeK6Kb2 Parent ID: WL76.vuIf6LvchL4 SysFS ID: /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:09.0/0000:05:07.0 SysFS BusID: 0000:05:07.0 Hardware Class: network Model: "Linksys WMP54G 2.0 PCI Adapter" Vendor: pci 0x1814 "RaLink" Device: pci 0x0201 "RT2500 802.11g Cardbus/mini-PCI" SubVendor: pci 0x1737 "Linksys" SubDevice: pci 0x0032 "WMP54G 2.0 PCI Adapter" Revision: 0x01 Driver: "rt2500pci" Driver Modules: "rt2500pci" Device File: wlan0 Features: WLAN Memory Range: 0xd8004000-0xd8005fff (rw,non-prefetchable) IRQ: 17 (no events) HW Address: 00:14:bf:77:21:e1 Link detected: no WLAN channels: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 WLAN frequencies: 2.412 2.417 2.422 2.427 2.432 2.437 2.442 2.447 2.452 2.457 2.462 2.467 2.472 WLAN encryption modes: WEP40 WEP104 TKIP CCMP WLAN authentication modes: open sharedkey wpa-psk wpa-eap Module Alias: "pci:v00001814d00000201sv00001737sd00000032bc02sc80i00" Driver Info #0: Driver Status: rt2500pci is active Driver Activation Cmd: "modprobe rt2500pci" Config Status: cfg=new, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown Attached to: #13 (PCI bridge) I'm really new to wireless, so I might be missing something really obvious here, any tips? -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 17:54:48 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:54:48 -0500 Subject: linksys wireless on Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <20090304124512.481ea546-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090304124512.481ea546@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090304125448.1eb3aac6@teksavvy.com> JoeHill wrote: > Roadblock number two... > > System has a Linksys WMP54G wireless LAN card, and it seems to be recognized > by the system properly, but it could not get a dhcp offer on boot and nothing > shows up in the wireless network browser. I should also mention... On my wireless router, I have the security set up as follows: Security Mode is WPA personal WPA algorithms is TKIP I have a WPA shared key set up, but I never had a chance to enter that anywhere on the client system...at least not that I saw. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 18:01:17 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:01:17 -0500 Subject: Nvidia on new Debian Testing system In-Reply-To: <20090304123430.304dd626-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090304123430.304dd626@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090304180117.GA21599@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 12:34:30PM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > >Setting up Debian for a friend, and it looks like some things have changed with >xorg. > >When I run dpkg-reconfigure, there is nothing in there to change driver, >resolution, or anything. > >I also installed the nvidia config utility, but that failed with a message >saying there was a missing 'driver' line in xorg.conf. I checked that file and >it doesn't look anything like I'm used to, it just has 'configured device' in >the video section. > >Any tips on how nvidia works with this new xorg setup? I have a working Debian xorg.conf using the nvidia proprietary driver here: http://nerd.cx/index.php/2009/01/13/logitech-marble-mouse/ If you want to use the open source driver (i.e. you don't need 3D or OpenGL support), just move the comment from the nv driver to the nvidia line. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 18:01:41 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 13:01:41 -0500 Subject: Nvidia on new Debian Testing system In-Reply-To: <20090304123430.304dd626-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090304123430.304dd626@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <49AEC205.1040900@rogers.com> JoeHill wrote: > Setting up Debian for a friend, and it looks like some things have changed with > xorg. > > When I run dpkg-reconfigure, there is nothing in there to change driver, > resolution, or anything. > > I also installed the nvidia config utility, but that failed with a message > saying there was a missing 'driver' line in xorg.conf. I checked that file and > it doesn't look anything like I'm used to, it just has 'configured device' in > the video section. > > Any tips on how nvidia works with this new xorg setup? > > The folks at the Mepis site are promoting the use of the smxi scripts in cases where their own Nvidia install utility or the install routine from the Nvidia site fails. Here's a link to the smxi instructions: http://techpatterns.com/forums/about933.html I have not used it myself since Mepis's built in utility did the job. HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 18:09:04 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:09:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Questions from a Linux user considering a Macbook In-Reply-To: <49AD7A8C.80403-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49AD7A8C.80403@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <174689.47128.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 3/3/09, Marc Lanctot wrote: > From: Marc Lanctot > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Questions from a Linux user considering a Macbook > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 1:44 PM > E K wrote: > > Too late and typical of a windows/Mac user to be of > interest. Since you didn't say anything that we > don't already know, the information content of your > email is nil hence not helpful. > > > > We already know that your time is more worth than the > machoness .... We also know that you don't know that you > can have fully supported pre-installed Linux or get it > installed for you. > > > > First of all: that was unnecessarily harsh. This list gets > lots of posts per day.. there are times I get busy and > can't keep up for a week or two and I have to spend an > hour or two just going through everything I missed. It'd > be a shame if I felt less inclined to follow up on something > just because I'd get flamed for being "late". > > Secondly, he started his post with a warning that it was > mostly a summary. > > Thirdly, it /actually was helpful/, to me at least. Nobody > had mentioned the extended warranty and with his experience > with laptops that info is quite valuable.. and nobody had > mentioned tunneling X through ssh, or implied having used > fink as much as he did. > > So, can we all be friends? Thanks. > Agreed and my appologies. I had a frastrating day yesterday dealing with that "machoism" reasoning in relation to open source (which is my work) here at work yesterday. It is frustrating particularly because it came from someone who has political capital with management. EK > Marc > > -- Black holes are where God divided by zero. > -- Steven Wright > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 18:54:28 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:54:28 -0500 Subject: Nvidia on new Debian Testing system In-Reply-To: <20090304180117.GA21599-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20090304123430.304dd626@teksavvy.com> <20090304180117.GA21599@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20090304135428.6c419b66@teksavvy.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 12:34:30PM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > > > >Setting up Debian for a friend, and it looks like some things have changed > >with xorg. > > > >When I run dpkg-reconfigure, there is nothing in there to change driver, > >resolution, or anything. > > > >I also installed the nvidia config utility, but that failed with a message > >saying there was a missing 'driver' line in xorg.conf. I checked that file > >and it doesn't look anything like I'm used to, it just has 'configured > >device' in the video section. > > > >Any tips on how nvidia works with this new xorg setup? > > I have a working Debian xorg.conf using the nvidia proprietary driver > here: http://nerd.cx/index.php/2009/01/13/logitech-marble-mouse/ > > If you want to use the open source driver (i.e. you don't need 3D or > OpenGL support), just move the comment from the nv driver to the nvidia > line. It turned out when I went back in to xorg.conf, the nvidia config utility had in fact rewritten the file properly. I just needed to do ctrl-alt-back and all was good. Thanks! -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 19:02:25 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:02:25 -0500 Subject: stop USB charging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090304190225.GF12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 11:16:38AM -0500, jing wrote: > Does anyone know how to turn off device charging via USB but still > keep the connection alive? My Google-foo fails me. Is there some > file in /sys that can turn off USB device charging? When traveling I > like to tether my iPhone over USB for Internet connectivity. But the > phone insists on charging itself, which puts a huge drain on my > laptop. USB ports must provide at least 100mA of power. You can not disable that as far as I know, unless you actually shut down the port completely. If you want a device to not draw power, then make the device not draw power. Good luck on that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 19:03:58 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 14:03:58 -0500 Subject: Nvidia on new Debian Testing system In-Reply-To: <20090304123430.304dd626-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090304123430.304dd626@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090304190358.GG12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 12:34:30PM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > Setting up Debian for a friend, and it looks like some things have changed with > xorg. > > When I run dpkg-reconfigure, there is nothing in there to change driver, > resolution, or anything. Yeah they stupidly removed the 'Driver ...' part, and now rely entirely on autodetection by xorg. Perhaps if you uninstall the xserver-xorg-video-nv driver, then only one left to pick would be the nvidia driver. > I also installed the nvidia config utility, but that failed with a message > saying there was a missing 'driver' line in xorg.conf. I checked that file and > it doesn't look anything like I'm used to, it just has 'configured device' in > the video section. You can just add 'Driver "nvidia"' to the configured device section and then it should work. > Any tips on how nvidia works with this new xorg setup? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 20:14:53 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 15:14:53 -0500 Subject: linksys wireless on Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <20090304125448.1eb3aac6-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090304124512.481ea546@teksavvy.com> <20090304125448.1eb3aac6@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090304201453.GH12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 12:54:48PM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > I should also mention... > > On my wireless router, I have the security set up as follows: > > Security Mode is WPA personal > > WPA algorithms is TKIP > > I have a WPA shared key set up, but I never had a chance to enter that anywhere > on the client system...at least not that I saw. Well I have seen it done simply from network manager in gnome (and perhaps kde). Doing it from the command line involves comvuluted work involving wpa-suplicant and company. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 21:09:10 2009 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:09:10 -0500 Subject: Process consuming space Message-ID: <49AEEDF6.5050000@totaltravelmarketing.com> Hi list, I had a problem with a process consuming space today, seems like a user panic with probably some huge report and kill the app, but the underline process continue to run and it consume all of my data partition, I couldn't get to know which process was the culprit because they decided to reboot the app, is there any way to know how to check for a process consuming space or having a huge space allocation? Thanks in advance for your help Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 4 23:08:49 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 18:08:49 -0500 Subject: cacti snmp data (Indexed) Message-ID: Hi pal, I am stuck on cacti and need some assistance. I would say, its primarily mainly because of lack of understanding the of the indexing related stuff and wonder if someone can enlighten me on that. I specifically want to graph iostat and after a bit of googling, think this would do. http://forums.cacti.net/viewtopic.php?t=29426 Now, the script set up was ok, and I can snmpwalk and get details from across the cacti server. I have also imported the templates successfully and that is about the time I got stuck. The templates use snmp data (indexed) method of polling. Unlike the snmp data method, the former require a little more details that I haven?t figured how to furnish accurately. Below are the two fields I am refering to: Under data template -> *Custom Data* [data input: Get SNMP Data (Indexed)] I have: *Index Value **Index Type My OID look like this: snmpwalk -v1 -c public 172.16.18.206 .1.3.6.1.3.1 SNMPv2-SMI::experimental.1.1.1 = INTEGER: 1 SNMPv2-SMI::experimental.1.2.1 = STRING: "sda" SNMPv2-SMI::experimental.1.3.1 = STRING: "0.00" SNMPv2-SMI::experimental.1.4.1 = STRING: "0.47" SNMPv2-SMI::experimental.1.5.1 = STRING: "0.00" SNMPv2-SMI::experimental.1.6.1 = STRING: "1.80" SNMPv2-SMI::experimental.1.7.1 = STRING: "0.00" SNMPv2-SMI::experimental.1.8.1 = STRING: "9.06" SNMPv2-SMI::experimental.1.9.1 = STRING: "10.07" SNMPv2-SMI::experimental.1.10.1 = STRING: "0.01" SNMPv2-SMI::experimental.1.11.1 = STRING: "3.19" SNMPv2-SMI::experimental.1.12.1 = STRING: "0.30" SNMPv2-SMI::experimental.1.13.1 = STRING: "0.05" Now, what would be the required information for the above two fields? Would appreaciate any help if someone has a quick solution. Regards, William * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 00:46:33 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:46:33 -0500 Subject: /etc/X11/xorg.conf in lenny [wasNvidia on new Debian Testing system] Message-ID: <49AF20E9.5090509@teksavvy.com> This is interesting. I thought I'd check my /etc/X11/xorg.conf. I'm using a Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 on lenny with no problems. The devices are identified as just "configured whatever device". This is autoconfiguration taken to obscurity :-) My /etc/X11/xorg.conf is below. Regards Meng # xorg.conf (X.Org X Window System server configuration file) # # This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, using # values from the debconf database. # # Edit this file with caution, and see the xorg.conf manual page. # (Type "man xorg.conf" at the shell prompt.) # # This file is automatically updated on xserver-xorg package upgrades *only* # if it has not been modified since the last upgrade of the xserver-xorg # package. # # If you have edited this file but would like it to be automatically updated # again, run the following command: # sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Keyboard" Driver "kbd" Option "XkbRules" "xorg" Option "XkbModel" "pc104" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "mouse" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Configured Video Device" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Configured Monitor" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Default Screen" Monitor "Configured Monitor" EndSection -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 01:42:55 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:42:55 -0500 Subject: xine sound crippled In-Reply-To: <200902281818.20402.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200902272224.43061.amarjan@pobox.com> <49A8B964.2010702@gmail.com> <200902281818.20402.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: <49AF2E1F.8030906@gmail.com> Andrej Marjan wrote: > On February 27, 2009 11:11:16 pm Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > >> After some extra reading on from googled links (usually, a really waste >> of time) and experimenting, now I have two more comments. How accurate - >> I am not sure. >> >> 1. No good documentation on how to use mplayer. Or, rather, so many >> options on command line that are hard to understand that one can get >> crazy very fast and go back to windows rather. >> > > You can ignore most of the options. One nice thing about the preponderance of > options is that you can often do whatever you want with mplayer. For instance > it's probably the easiest way to rip an arbitrary media stream from the > Internet, once you figure out the appropriate handful of flags. > > >> 2. I suspect that my video card, which is somewhat outdated (ATI >> Mach64/3DRag) might be the source of the problem with video. >> > > I don't know why you're not seeing video with mplayer, it's Just Worked for me > for years. > > For video, the option is -vo and allows you to select the video output driver. > I don't know what works with such an old video card, but there's only so many > drivers so one of them is bound to work. > > Some (all?) of mplayer is configurable graphically via the gmplayer GUI > version. > gmplayer is old (last update 2 years ago). I can not install it on Centos. It looks like it was done for windows. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 05:11:40 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 00:11:40 -0500 Subject: Process consuming space In-Reply-To: <49AEEDF6.5050000-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <49AEEDF6.5050000@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0903042111l160324d6yd1cf41958f0b8c3e@mail.gmail.com> I've seen this happen wherein a process (such as apache, mysql, etc) was writing a log, and some other process (or person) removed/moved the log without notifying the owner.. Since the owning process hasn't restarted, it won't release the handle on the logfile, and thus the filesystem was still counting it as being open, but the file itself did not appear to exist anymore. Which of course makes it a real bugger to track down, but perhaps it was just a stuck logfile or something that had been deleted/rotated already but not released? - TJA On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Jose wrote: > Hi list, > > I had a problem with a process consuming space today, seems like a user > panic with probably some huge report and kill the app, but the underline > process continue to run and it consume all of my data partition, I couldn't > get to know which process was the culprit because they decided to reboot the > app, is there any way to know how to check for a process consuming space or > having a huge space allocation? > > Thanks in advance for your help > > Jose > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 05:23:34 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 00:23:34 -0500 Subject: /etc/X11/xorg.conf in lenny [wasNvidia on new Debian Testing system] In-Reply-To: <49AF20E9.5090509-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <49AF20E9.5090509@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0903042123o735333c5l567f561f8c59085f@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Meng Cheah wrote: > This is interesting. I thought I'd check my /etc/X11/xorg.conf. > I'm using a Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 on lenny with no problems. > > The devices are identified as just "configured whatever device". > This is autoconfiguration taken to obscurity :-) > My /etc/X11/xorg.conf is below. > > Regards > > Meng > > > # xorg.conf (X.Org X Window System server configuration file) > # > # This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, using > # values from the debconf database. > # > # Edit this file with caution, and see the xorg.conf manual page. > # (Type "man xorg.conf" at the shell prompt.) > # > # This file is automatically updated on xserver-xorg package upgrades *only* > # if it has not been modified since the last upgrade of the xserver-xorg > # package. > # > # If you have edited this file but would like it to be automatically updated > # again, run the following command: > # ? sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg > > Section "InputDevice" > ? Identifier ? ?"Generic Keyboard" > ? Driver ? ? ? ?"kbd" > ? Option ? ? ? ?"XkbRules" ? ?"xorg" > ? Option ? ? ? ?"XkbModel" ? ?"pc104" > ? Option ? ? ? ?"XkbLayout" ? ?"us" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > ? Identifier ? ?"Configured Mouse" > ? Driver ? ? ? ?"mouse" > EndSection > > Section "Device" > ? Identifier ? ?"Configured Video Device" > EndSection > > Section "Monitor" > ? Identifier ? ?"Configured Monitor" > EndSection > > Section "Screen" > ? Identifier ? ?"Default Screen" > ? Monitor ? ? ? ?"Configured Monitor" > EndSection > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Looks similar to mine, but it's not actually saying to use the nvidia driver anywhere. Are you using the proprietary driver? If not xorg is probably happily detecting everything with it's own drivers (on most Ubuntus it does this as well), but you have the proprietary driver you might use: Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Keyboard" Driver "kbd" Option "XkbRules" "xorg" Option "XkbModel" "pc105" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "CorePointer" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Configured Video Device" Driver "nvidia" Option "NoLogo" "True" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Configured Monitor" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Default Screen" Monitor "Configured Monitor" Device "Configured Video Device" Defaultdepth 24 EndSection Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Default Layout" screen "Default Screen" EndSection Section "Module" Load "glx" EndSection -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 05:59:14 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 00:59:14 -0500 Subject: linksys wireless on Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <20090304201453.GH12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090304124512.481ea546@teksavvy.com> <20090304125448.1eb3aac6@teksavvy.com> <20090304201453.GH12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090305005914.3340d12c@teksavvy.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 12:54:48PM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > > I should also mention... > > > > On my wireless router, I have the security set up as follows: > > > > Security Mode is WPA personal > > > > WPA algorithms is TKIP > > > > I have a WPA shared key set up, but I never had a chance to enter that > > anywhere on the client system...at least not that I saw. > > Well I have seen it done simply from network manager in gnome (and > perhaps kde). Doing it from the command line involves comvuluted work > involving wpa-suplicant and company. I went back and looked at it again. This time I went in to the network config in the system menu, and it opened a dialogue to enter the wireless network settings, but it does not have a choice for WPA and a passphrase, only for WEP with a WEP password. Is WPA not supported, or am I still in the wrong spot for this? -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 07:14:25 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:14:25 -0500 Subject: /etc/X11/xorg.conf in lenny [wasNvidia on new Debian Testing system] In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0903042123o735333c5l567f561f8c59085f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49AF20E9.5090509@teksavvy.com> <3a97ef0903042123o735333c5l567f561f8c59085f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AF7BD1.8080708@teksavvy.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Looks similar to mine, but it's not actually saying to use the nvidia > driver anywhere. Are you using the proprietary driver? If not xorg is > probably happily detecting everything with it's own drivers (on most > Ubuntus it does this as well), but you have the proprietary driver you > might use: > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Generic Keyboard" > Driver "kbd" > Option "XkbRules" "xorg" > Option "XkbModel" "pc105" > Option "XkbLayout" "us" > EndSection > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Configured Mouse" > Driver "mouse" > Option "CorePointer" > EndSection > > Section "Device" > Identifier "Configured Video Device" > Driver "nvidia" > Option "NoLogo" "True" > EndSection > > Section "Monitor" > Identifier "Configured Monitor" > EndSection > > Section "Screen" > Identifier "Default Screen" > Monitor "Configured Monitor" > Device "Configured Video Device" > Defaultdepth 24 > EndSection > > Section "ServerLayout" > Identifier "Default Layout" > screen "Default Screen" > EndSection > Section "Module" > Load "glx" > EndSection > > I'm using the stock driver in lenny. Thanks for the conf, much appreciated :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mikesi-ft1kE4FQKTmJ6jDlghZswwC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 14:09:37 2009 From: mikesi-ft1kE4FQKTmJ6jDlghZswwC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Mike Sillers) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:09:37 -0500 Subject: Process consuming space Message-ID: We've had a similar problem with a process tying up a lot of space but the file not being visible as the process has been killed or otherwise interrupted but a subprocess has the space still allocated. I've used lsof (for example losf /dir) to identify all open files on the system then choosing the offending file from the list. lsof will identify the application in the first column, the pid in the second column, the user in the third and the file in the last column. From there which you can use ps to give further info if required, then kill the process if it can't be exited otherwise. Hope this helps. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Jose [mailto:jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org] Sent: March 4, 2009 4:09 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Process consuming space Hi list, I had a problem with a process consuming space today, seems like a user panic with probably some huge report and kill the app, but the underline process continue to run and it consume all of my data partition, I couldn't get to know which process was the culprit because they decided to reboot the app, is there any way to know how to check for a process consuming space or having a huge space allocation? Thanks in advance for your help Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 14:07:27 2009 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:07:27 -0500 Subject: Process consuming space In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0903042111l160324d6yd1cf41958f0b8c3e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49AEEDF6.5050000@totaltravelmarketing.com> <3a97ef0903042111l160324d6yd1cf41958f0b8c3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49AFDC9F.8060203@totaltravelmarketing.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > I've seen this happen wherein a process (such as apache, mysql, etc) > was writing a log, and some other process (or person) removed/moved > the log without notifying the owner.. > Since the owning process hasn't restarted, it won't release the handle > on the logfile, and thus the filesystem was still counting it as being > open, but the file itself did not appear to exist anymore. > > Which of course makes it a real bugger to track down, but perhaps it > was just a stuck logfile or something that had been deleted/rotated > already but not released? > > - TJA > > > > On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Jose wrote: >> Hi list, >> >> I had a problem with a process consuming space today, seems like a user >> panic with probably some huge report and kill the app, but the underline >> process continue to run and it consume all of my data partition, I couldn't >> get to know which process was the culprit because they decided to reboot the >> app, is there any way to know how to check for a process consuming space or >> having a huge space allocation? >> >> Thanks in advance for your help >> >> Jose >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > Yeah, that was the problem, but there was more to your point, this one continue to grab any available space, so what ever we cleaned up it was consumed back by this fanthom process, but I would like to see if there is anyway to trap this type of processes as we have like 300-500 user processes running the same app at peak time and is not easy to identify, any suggestions? Thanks again Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 14:28:05 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:28:05 -0500 Subject: /etc/X11/xorg.conf in lenny [wasNvidia on new Debian Testing system] In-Reply-To: <49AF20E9.5090509-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <49AF20E9.5090509@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090305142805.GI12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 07:46:33PM -0500, Meng Cheah wrote: > This is interesting. I thought I'd check my /etc/X11/xorg.conf. > I'm using a Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 on lenny with no problems. > > The devices are identified as just "configured whatever device". > This is autoconfiguration taken to obscurity :-) > My /etc/X11/xorg.conf is below. So in your case you are running the open source 2D only driver. You would have to do some extra fiddling to use the closed-source 3D driver. It all depends what you want to do with it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 14:32:14 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:32:14 -0500 Subject: linksys wireless on Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <20090305005914.3340d12c-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090304124512.481ea546@teksavvy.com> <20090304125448.1eb3aac6@teksavvy.com> <20090304201453.GH12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090305005914.3340d12c@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090305143214.GJ12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 12:59:14AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > I went back and looked at it again. This time I went in to the network config > in the system menu, and it opened a dialogue to enter the wireless network > settings, but it does not have a choice for WPA and a passphrase, only for WEP > with a WEP password. > > Is WPA not supported, or am I still in the wrong spot for this? Well I have certainly seen a laptop at work with Debian lenny installed, that just worked. It supported WEP and WPA and WPA2 when you clicked on the network manager system tray icon in gnome. What are you running on your system? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 14:39:22 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:39:22 -0500 Subject: /etc/X11/xorg.conf in lenny [wasNvidia on new Debian Testing system] In-Reply-To: <20090305142805.GI12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49AF20E9.5090509@teksavvy.com> <20090305142805.GI12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49AFE41A.40105@teksavvy.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > So in your case you are running the open source 2D only driver. You would > have to do some extra fiddling to use the closed-source 3D driver. > > It all depends what you want to do with it. > You're right. I don't need or want 3D but may play with it later :-) Good to know, thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 14:45:10 2009 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Fernando Duran) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 06:45:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Process consuming space In-Reply-To: <49AEEDF6.5050000-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <49AEEDF6.5050000@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <620514.45892.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello Jose, This article may help understanding what happened: http://finalcog.com/undelete-open-file-from-inode You can use the "fuser" command to find what process is holding a file/partition. Also you can use "lsof"; from 'ps' get the process ids, pipe them (xargs) through lsof -p and |grep for the file name to get the process id to kill. To find the biggest directories or files you can do something like: $ du -mxS / | sort -n | tail -5 or $ du -a --max-depth=3 / | sort -n | awk '{ if($1 > 102400) print $1/1024 "MB" " " $2 }' Finally, a system reboot will close the open file. Regards, Fernando --------------------- Fernando Duran http://www.fduran.com --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Jose wrote: > From: Jose > Subject: [TLUG]: Process consuming space > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 4:09 PM > Hi list, > > I had a problem with a process consuming space today, seems > like a user panic with probably some huge report and kill > the app, but the underline process continue to run and it > consume all of my data partition, I couldn't get to know > which process was the culprit because they decided to reboot > the app, is there any way to know how to check for a process > consuming space or having a huge space allocation? > > Thanks in advance for your help > > Jose > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 16:05:59 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:05:59 -0500 Subject: linksys wireless on Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <20090305143214.GJ12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090304124512.481ea546@teksavvy.com> <20090304125448.1eb3aac6@teksavvy.com> <20090304201453.GH12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090305005914.3340d12c@teksavvy.com> <20090305143214.GJ12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090305110559.39bad5f2@teksavvy.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 12:59:14AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > > I went back and looked at it again. This time I went in to the network > > config in the system menu, and it opened a dialogue to enter the wireless > > network settings, but it does not have a choice for WPA and a passphrase, > > only for WEP with a WEP password. > > > > Is WPA not supported, or am I still in the wrong spot for this? > > Well I have certainly seen a laptop at work with Debian lenny installed, > that just worked. It supported WEP and WPA and WPA2 when you clicked > on the network manager system tray icon in gnome. > > What are you running on your system? Debian Testing, with wpa_supplicant installed. Is it possible that it's just not supported by the card? I saw some argument about that when searching, but the output from hwinfo seemed to show support for wpa: 2.462 2.467 2.472 WLAN encryption modes: WEP40 WEP104 TKIP CCMP WLAN authentication modes: open sharedkey wpa-psk wpa-eap -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 16:32:10 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 11:32:10 -0500 Subject: linksys wireless on Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <20090305110559.39bad5f2-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090304124512.481ea546@teksavvy.com> <20090304125448.1eb3aac6@teksavvy.com> <20090304201453.GH12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090305005914.3340d12c@teksavvy.com> <20090305143214.GJ12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090305110559.39bad5f2@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <49AFFE8A.7070703@utoronto.ca> JoeHill wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 12:59:14AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: >>> I went back and looked at it again. This time I went in to the network >>> config in the system menu, and it opened a dialogue to enter the wireless >>> network settings, but it does not have a choice for WPA and a passphrase, >>> only for WEP with a WEP password. >>> >>> Is WPA not supported, or am I still in the wrong spot for this? >> Well I have certainly seen a laptop at work with Debian lenny installed, >> that just worked. It supported WEP and WPA and WPA2 when you clicked >> on the network manager system tray icon in gnome. >> >> What are you running on your system? > > Debian Testing, with wpa_supplicant installed. Is it possible that it's just > not supported by the card? I saw some argument about that when searching, but > the output from hwinfo seemed to show support for wpa: > > 2.462 2.467 2.472 WLAN encryption modes: WEP40 WEP104 TKIP CCMP > WLAN authentication modes: open sharedkey wpa-psk wpa-eap > Debian testing is now Debian Squeeze. I'm not sure what has come in from sid, but I'd expect testing to be a little unstable for a few months. Are you intending to use Squeeze or Lenny? Jaomn -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 16:44:44 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:44:44 -0500 Subject: linksys wireless on Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <49AFFE8A.7070703-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20090304124512.481ea546@teksavvy.com> <20090304125448.1eb3aac6@teksavvy.com> <20090304201453.GH12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090305005914.3340d12c@teksavvy.com> <20090305143214.GJ12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090305110559.39bad5f2@teksavvy.com> <49AFFE8A.7070703@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20090305114444.6aa68788@teksavvy.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > JoeHill wrote: > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > >> On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 12:59:14AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > >>> I went back and looked at it again. This time I went in to the network > >>> config in the system menu, and it opened a dialogue to enter the wireless > >>> network settings, but it does not have a choice for WPA and a passphrase, > >>> only for WEP with a WEP password. > >>> > >>> Is WPA not supported, or am I still in the wrong spot for this? > >> Well I have certainly seen a laptop at work with Debian lenny installed, > >> that just worked. It supported WEP and WPA and WPA2 when you clicked > >> on the network manager system tray icon in gnome. > >> > >> What are you running on your system? > > > > Debian Testing, with wpa_supplicant installed. Is it possible that it's just > > not supported by the card? I saw some argument about that when searching, > > but the output from hwinfo seemed to show support for wpa: > > > > 2.462 2.467 2.472 WLAN encryption modes: WEP40 WEP104 TKIP CCMP > > WLAN authentication modes: open sharedkey wpa-psk wpa-eap > > > > Debian testing is now Debian Squeeze. I'm not sure what has come in from > sid, but I'd expect testing to be a little unstable for a few months. > Are you intending to use Squeeze or Lenny? I was just going to stick with Testing. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 17:21:27 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:21:27 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers SMTP Port Blocking and GMail SMTP Message-ID: <49B00A17.1070400@rogers.com> It seems that I cannot use Gmail's smtp for outgoing because Roger's blocks port 587. Can someone confirm this (to rule out my error) Is there a workaround? Can I use my Linux server in some way to get around this? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 17:32:23 2009 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 12:32:23 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers SMTP Port Blocking and GMail SMTP In-Reply-To: <49B00A17.1070400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49B00A17.1070400@rogers.com> Message-ID: My understanding is that Rogers blocks port 25, and opens 587 for outgoing mail. I use that port for my outgoing through Gmail, and it works fine. Cheers, Aaron. On 5-Mar-09, at 12:21 PM, Stephen wrote: > It seems that I cannot use Gmail's smtp for outgoing because Roger's > blocks port 587. > > Can someone confirm this (to rule out my error) > > Is there a workaround? > > Can I use my Linux server in some way to get around this? > > Thanks > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 18:19:08 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 13:19:08 -0500 Subject: linksys wireless on Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <20090305110559.39bad5f2-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090304124512.481ea546@teksavvy.com> <20090304125448.1eb3aac6@teksavvy.com> <20090304201453.GH12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090305005914.3340d12c@teksavvy.com> <20090305143214.GJ12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090305110559.39bad5f2@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090305181908.GK12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 11:05:59AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > Debian Testing, with wpa_supplicant installed. Is it possible that it's just > not supported by the card? I saw some argument about that when searching, but > the output from hwinfo seemed to show support for wpa: > > 2.462 2.467 2.472 WLAN encryption modes: WEP40 WEP104 TKIP CCMP > WLAN authentication modes: open sharedkey wpa-psk wpa-eap wpa-psk sounds like WPA to me. Might not support WPA2 though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 18:45:42 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 13:45:42 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers SMTP Port Blocking and GMail SMTP In-Reply-To: References: <49B00A17.1070400@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49B01DD6.7070007@rogers.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > My understanding is that Rogers blocks port 25, and opens 587 for > outgoing mail. I use that port for my outgoing through Gmail, and it > works fine. Thanks It was a typo in my smtp user name. Knowing it should work made me look again ! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 5 20:15:12 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:15:12 -0500 Subject: TLUG talk topic poll for Q2 - still open Message-ID: <1236284112.21209.146.camel@leon> Hi all, The poll is still open to indicate which topics you'd like to have presented at TLUG in the next little while. Why don't we leave the poll up through the weekend? I'll tally and discuss at the meeting on Tuesday and summarize for this list. While this poll, solicit speakers, schedule, publish process may seem stiff at the moment, the plan is to take things very organically once we get a couple of presentations ahead. Please continue to send your topic suggestions and offers to present to Colin and me at any time. Poll: http://weait.com/content/tlug-topics-2009q2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 6 09:15:38 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 04:15:38 -0500 Subject: Linux 1, MacOS 0 (illegal gcc download for minors) Message-ID: <49B0E9BA.7000205@ualberta.ca> I just bought my macbook I'd talked about before and just went through a striking experience that I figure you may all appreciate. Sorry in advance if this is already well-known, but it's news to me. Darwinports is FreeBSD's ports for Mac (think portage on emerge), so it needs gcc to build things you download. I was surprised -- not outright shocked because I didn't expect it to be developer-friendly -- not to find gcc installed already. So, I tried fink, it gave me a weird error when trying to install gcc42, something about dependencies with unrestricted packages then I told it to install gcc-4.0 which told me to go download xcode to get gcc. Some googling also pointed me to xcode to get gcc. Even the gcc download page doesn't have binaries for MacOS. To download xcode you need to register an account the the Apple Developer Connection. No free compiling for me unless I OK it with Apple. It's a conspiracy.. but, I said, fine, in my attempt to become a Mac user I'll suck up and give in to this. It's part of the experience, right? So getting this account just to get xcode has your home address as a required field. So now, using gcc on my Mac means Apple has to be able to track me down to my home. In case I'm hand-crafting viruses or something? Ok, so whatever, at this point it's a bit much but I comply anyway. At the end of the account creation process, part of the agreement says "I confirm that I'm 18 years of age or older." Luckily I am, but this put me over. If I was 16 years old making some hard-earned money, went out and bought a Mac .. it would not be legal for me to run gcc on it. Actually, it would be as long as my parents or older siblings downloaded it for me. Does anybody know of a way around this, or is it really illegal to download xcode on MacOS if you're under 18? (Note: some sites says it comes on the CD with your MacOS disks but I got no such disks... but as long as these disks are provided for free then it should be OK...) I'm steps closer to dual-booting this thing with Linux..... Marc -- Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. -- Albert Einstein -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 6 11:50:24 2009 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 06:50:24 -0500 Subject: Linux 1, MacOS 0 (illegal gcc download for minors) In-Reply-To: <49B0E9BA.7000205-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49B0E9BA.7000205@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Relax. The XCode tools are included on the system disk that came with your new MacBook. No need to go online and give up your personal info. Just pop in the disk and run the installer. Cheers, Aaron. On 6-Mar-09, at 4:15 AM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I just bought my macbook I'd talked about before and just went > through a striking experience that I figure you may all appreciate. > Sorry in advance if this is already well-known, but it's news to me. > > Darwinports is FreeBSD's ports for Mac (think portage on emerge), so > it needs gcc to build things you download. I was surprised -- not > outright shocked because I didn't expect it to be developer-friendly > -- not to find gcc installed already. So, I tried fink, it gave me a > weird error when trying to install gcc42, something about > dependencies with unrestricted packages then I told it to install > gcc-4.0 which told me to go download xcode to get gcc. Some googling > also pointed me to xcode to get gcc. Even the gcc download page > doesn't have binaries for MacOS. > > To download xcode you need to register an account the the Apple > Developer Connection. No free compiling for me unless I OK it with > Apple. It's a conspiracy.. but, I said, fine, in my attempt to > become a Mac user I'll suck up and give in to this. It's part of the > experience, right? So getting this account just to get xcode has > your home address as a required field. So now, using gcc on my Mac > means Apple has to be able to track me down to my home. In case I'm > hand-crafting viruses or something? Ok, so whatever, at this point > it's a bit much but I comply anyway. > > At the end of the account creation process, part of the agreement > says "I confirm that I'm 18 years of age or older." Luckily I am, > but this put me over. If I was 16 years old making some hard-earned > money, went out and bought a Mac .. it would not be legal for me to > run gcc on it. Actually, it would be as long as my parents or older > siblings downloaded it for me. > > Does anybody know of a way around this, or is it really illegal to > download xcode on MacOS if you're under 18? > > (Note: some sites says it comes on the CD with your MacOS disks but > I got no such disks... but as long as these disks are provided for > free then it should be OK...) > > I'm steps closer to dual-booting this thing with Linux..... > > Marc > > -- > Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. > -- Albert Einstein > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 6 14:20:29 2009 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 09:20:29 -0500 Subject: Linux 1, MacOS 0 (illegal gcc download for minors) In-Reply-To: References: <49B0E9BA.7000205@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Hmm. Pop in the CD that the original posters has already stated he did not receive. Now *that's* useful advice. Perhaps the issue is *why* did he not get the system disk. Was this a second hand MacBook? The other Colin On 3/6/09, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Relax. The XCode tools are included on the system disk that came with your > new MacBook. No need to go online and give up your personal info. Just pop > in the disk and run the installer. > > Cheers, > Aaron. > > > On 6-Mar-09, at 4:15 AM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > > > > I just bought my macbook I'd talked about before and just went through a > striking experience that I figure you may all appreciate. Sorry in advance > if this is already well-known, but it's news to me. > > > > Darwinports is FreeBSD's ports for Mac (think portage on emerge), so it > needs gcc to build things you download. I was surprised -- not outright > shocked because I didn't expect it to be developer-friendly -- not to find > gcc installed already. So, I tried fink, it gave me a weird error when > trying to install gcc42, something about dependencies with unrestricted > packages then I told it to install gcc-4.0 which told me to go download > xcode to get gcc. Some googling also pointed me to xcode to get gcc. Even > the gcc download page doesn't have binaries for MacOS. > > > > To download xcode you need to register an account the the Apple Developer > Connection. No free compiling for me unless I OK it with Apple. It's a > conspiracy.. but, I said, fine, in my attempt to become a Mac user I'll suck > up and give in to this. It's part of the experience, right? So getting this > account just to get xcode has your home address as a required field. So now, > using gcc on my Mac means Apple has to be able to track me down to my home. > In case I'm hand-crafting viruses or something? Ok, so whatever, at this > point it's a bit much but I comply anyway. > > > > At the end of the account creation process, part of the agreement says "I > confirm that I'm 18 years of age or older." Luckily I am, but this put me > over. If I was 16 years old making some hard-earned money, went out and > bought a Mac .. it would not be legal for me to run gcc on it. Actually, it > would be as long as my parents or older siblings downloaded it for me. > > > > Does anybody know of a way around this, or is it really illegal to > download xcode on MacOS if you're under 18? > > > > (Note: some sites says it comes on the CD with your MacOS disks but I got > no such disks... but as long as these disks are provided for free then it > should be OK...) > > > > I'm steps closer to dual-booting this thing with Linux..... > > > > Marc > > > > -- > > Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. > > -- Albert Einstein > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 6 14:26:47 2009 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 09:26:47 -0500 Subject: Linux 1, MacOS 0 (illegal gcc download for minors) In-Reply-To: References: <49B0E9BA.7000205@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Hi there, On 6-Mar-09, at 9:20 AM, colin davidson wrote: > Hmm. Pop in the CD that the original posters has already stated he did > not receive. Now *that's* useful advice. > > Perhaps the issue is *why* did he not get the system disk. Was this a > second hand MacBook? Whoops, I didn't get that far in the message before responding. If it's a new computer, there should absolutely be a set of install discs. If used, get back to the seller ASAP. Apple may also be willing to supply replacements, depending on the age of the computer. Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 6 16:33:22 2009 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:33:22 -0500 Subject: Process consuming space In-Reply-To: <620514.45892.qm-3lJy/A3v08D5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <620514.45892.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49B15052.30502@totaltravelmarketing.com> Fernando Duran wrote: > Hello Jose, > > This article may help understanding what happened: http://finalcog.com/undelete-open-file-from-inode > > You can use the "fuser" command to find what process is holding a file/partition. Also you can use "lsof"; from 'ps' get the process ids, pipe them (xargs) through lsof -p and |grep for the file name to get the process id to kill. > > To find the biggest directories or files you can do something like: > $ du -mxS / | sort -n | tail -5 > or > $ du -a --max-depth=3 / | sort -n | awk '{ if($1 > 102400) print $1/1024 "MB" " " $2 }' > > Finally, a system reboot will close the open file. > > > Regards, > > Fernando > > --------------------- > Fernando Duran > http://www.fduran.com > > > --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Jose wrote: > >> From: Jose >> Subject: [TLUG]: Process consuming space >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Received: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 4:09 PM >> Hi list, >> >> I had a problem with a process consuming space today, seems >> like a user panic with probably some huge report and kill >> the app, but the underline process continue to run and it >> consume all of my data partition, I couldn't get to know >> which process was the culprit because they decided to reboot >> the app, is there any way to know how to check for a process >> consuming space or having a huge space allocation? >> >> Thanks in advance for your help >> >> Jose >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: >> http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 >> columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Thanks Fernando This pretty much did the trick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 6 17:27:40 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:27:40 -0500 Subject: Linux 1, MacOS 0 (illegal gcc download for minors) In-Reply-To: References: <49B0E9BA.7000205@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <49B15D0C.2010509@ualberta.ca> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > > On 6-Mar-09, at 9:20 AM, colin davidson wrote: > >> Hmm. Pop in the CD that the original posters has already stated he did >> not receive. Now *that's* useful advice. >> >> Perhaps the issue is *why* did he not get the system disk. Was this a >> second hand MacBook? > > Whoops, I didn't get that far in the message before responding. If it's > a new computer, there should absolutely be a set of install discs. If > used, get back to the seller ASAP. Apple may also be willing to supply > replacements, depending on the age of the computer. I'm relaxed, well-slept and it happens to be a very nice day outside. :) I apologize for my post; it turns out I did get DVDs but they were cleverly camouflaged in the box.. the manuals etc. were packaged in what looked to me like space fillers. Still, it is a bit upsetting that you have to give apple your home address and be over 18 to download gcc as a minor. Marc -- Fighting patents one by one will never eliminate the danger of software patents any more than swatting mosquitoes will eliminate malaria. -- Richard Stallman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 6 17:46:37 2009 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 12:46:37 -0500 Subject: Linux 1, MacOS 0 (illegal gcc download for minors) In-Reply-To: <49B15D0C.2010509-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49B0E9BA.7000205@ualberta.ca> <49B15D0C.2010509@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <28DC9E0F-81BB-4103-93CE-60A729671782@gmail.com> Hi there, > > > I'm relaxed, well-slept and it happens to be a very nice day > outside. :) Boy, you can say that again. Isn't it great out there? :-D > > I apologize for my post; it turns out I did get DVDs but they were > cleverly camouflaged in the box.. the manuals etc. were packaged in > what looked to me like space fillers. Oh, that's good news. > > Still, it is a bit upsetting that you have to give apple your home > address and be over 18 to download gcc as a minor. Apple isn't capturing your information in order to give you gcc; it's to give you access to the Xcode suite, of which gcc is just a part (albeit an important one!). While you may never use Xcode, Interface Builder and all the rest, it's for those people that Apple provides the online ADC membership, as well as access to a vast library of online resources. There's a significant corporate effort to get these tools into as many developers' hands as possible, so I don't begrudge them the desire to ask for a small profile in exchange for it. And as you now note, you don't even need to get an ADC membership: the tools come in the box. Welcome to ProprietaryLand! The views are great, but there are some chains. ;-) Cheers! Aaron. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 8 00:13:19 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 19:13:19 -0500 Subject: Linux 1, MacOS 0 (illegal gcc download for minors) In-Reply-To: <49B15D0C.2010509-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49B0E9BA.7000205@ualberta.ca> <49B15D0C.2010509@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <49B30D9F.3040106@rogers.com> Marc Lanctot wrote: > > I apologize for my post; it turns out I did get DVDs but they were > cleverly camouflaged in the box.. the manuals etc. were packaged in > what looked to me like space fillers. > So they hid them with the manuals? No one would ever look there. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From snkiz-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 8 13:36:25 2009 From: snkiz-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Ck) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 09:36:25 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for becoming a system admin Message-ID: <6a4686e30903080636q1b1733bfgfd3c59dc78dfcb2d@mail.gmail.com> I've been really enjoying fiddling with Linux the last two years, so much so that its been suggested that I look into a career in systems admin. My searches so far have been overwhelming to say the least, so many choices. So I was wondering... well I was wondering where do I start? I mean what courses would be good, collage or business school? what languages would I need to learn? basically everything. any suggestions? I should note my interest in windows is limited (not fun). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 8 17:05:42 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 13:05:42 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for becoming a system admin In-Reply-To: <6a4686e30903080636q1b1733bfgfd3c59dc78dfcb2d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <6a4686e30903080636q1b1733bfgfd3c59dc78dfcb2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090308170542.GA15386@watson-wilson.ca> http://www.sage.org http://everythingsysadmin.com/aboutbook.html -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 8 18:53:10 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 14:53:10 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for becoming a system admin In-Reply-To: <6a4686e30903080636q1b1733bfgfd3c59dc78dfcb2d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <6a4686e30903080636q1b1733bfgfd3c59dc78dfcb2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0903081153q770ada22yfa82d81e8edc6390@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Ck wrote: > I've been really enjoying fiddling with Linux the last two years, so > much so that its been suggested that I look into a career in systems > admin. My searches so far have been overwhelming to say the least, so > many choices. So I was wondering... well I was wondering where do I > start? I mean what courses would be good, collage or business school? > what languages would I need to learn? basically everything. any > suggestions? I should note my interest in windows is limited (not > fun). > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Not sure how old you are so I'm going to assume you might be early 20's/college age? Not to knock your possible choices in careers, but experience (my own and that of many friends in the industry) seems to indicate that making a career out of something often makes it somewhat less enjoyable as a hobby, but if you find a job that allows you to explore new avenues then often the "wow, that's really cool, I can't believe it got it to work" factor evens it out. Most jobs though, aren't necessarily going to be so much about learning cool new things as maintaining existing systems within a given routine, and possibly spot-learning when an unexpected situation comes up. That being said, a good IT education (degree/diploma) is usually a good base-point for getting into the industry in general. Even if a lot of it isn't Linux-related (and chances are it won't be) the courses *do* build a lot of good work/planning habits. I've seen a lot of people who are great with 'nix but have terrible planning/coordination/group habits. Since I'm from BC I can't recommend a particular school, but I would still say that a degree generally opens more doors if you want to beyond being a SysAdmin (IT manager, perhaps) or work outside of the country, etc. Co-op programs are awesome too, since you get real experience (and in many cases, get paid). Most college/uni courses have a good enough mix that you'll be getting some programming, business/communication, group, hardware, and administration experience. Knowing your way around a shell and automating is almost always a good skill though. Paper-courses in things like Cisco/networking also come handy in a lot of situations, I see plenty of jobs that want good networking experience/certs on top of the general SysAdmin stuff. Alternately/additionally, your first job is probably going to suck pay-wise, and may very well not be a 9-5 (a 24-hr rotating NOC position seems standard for those first entering the workforce). It might suck, but if you manager to push past it then things generally get better moving forward. - TJA p.s. Don't completely dismiss windows. It's a lot easier to find a job if you have mixed skills, and often enough many environments may have both 'nix and windows infrastructure. There can still be some fun in working in hybrid networks. Macs are cool too since OSX is to a good extent built-on-BSD. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 8 19:20:33 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:20:33 -0400 Subject: help with adblock and google ads Message-ID: <20090308152033.011ad504@teksavvy.com> Thank whoever for AdBlock, I honestly can't imagine the Web without it now. One thing I just found, kinda weird, is on this page: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090316/alterman there is an animated Google ad to the right ('what's your nation-ality?') that I cannot seem to block. It's URL already shows up as one of my 'exception rules', which is funny, because I have definitely _never_ set up any exception rules. I hate _all_ ads, no matter what, I don't want to see any. I cannot remove this exception from my adblock prefs, and I cannot add it to my blocked items. WTF? -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 8 19:32:38 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:32:38 -0400 Subject: help with adblock and google ads In-Reply-To: <20090308152033.011ad504-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090308152033.011ad504@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090308193238.GA4208@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Sun, Mar 08, 2009 at 03:20:33PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > >Thank whoever for AdBlock, I honestly can't imagine the Web without it now. > >One thing I just found, kinda weird, is on this page: > >http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090316/alterman > >there is an animated Google ad to the right ('what's your nation-ality?') that >I cannot seem to block. It's URL already shows up as one of my 'exception >rules', which is funny, because I have definitely _never_ set up any exception >rules. I hate _all_ ads, no matter what, I don't want to see any. > >I cannot remove this exception from my adblock prefs, and I cannot add it to my >blocked items. I am using AdBlock Plus, and I do not see the ad that you see. YMMV. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 8 19:41:46 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:41:46 -0400 Subject: help with adblock and google ads In-Reply-To: <20090308193238.GA4208-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20090308152033.011ad504@teksavvy.com> <20090308193238.GA4208@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20090308154146.28224f13@teksavvy.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Sun, Mar 08, 2009 at 03:20:33PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > > > >Thank whoever for AdBlock, I honestly can't imagine the Web without it now. > > > >One thing I just found, kinda weird, is on this page: > > > >http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090316/alterman > > > >there is an animated Google ad to the right ('what's your nation-ality?') > >that I cannot seem to block. It's URL already shows up as one of my > >'exception rules', which is funny, because I have definitely _never_ set up > >any exception rules. I hate _all_ ads, no matter what, I don't want to see > >any. > > > >I cannot remove this exception from my adblock prefs, and I cannot add it to > >my blocked items. > > I am using AdBlock Plus, and I do not see the ad that you see. YMMV. Okay, so it is possible to block it. Do you have a filter rule for: pagead2.googlesyndication.com I entered that as a new rule from the prefs dialogue (manually), still not blocked. And when I hover my mouse over the item in the blockable items list, the tooltip shows 'whitelisted', even though now I have deleted all 'exception rules'. Very frustrating. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 8 19:47:10 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:47:10 -0400 Subject: help with adblock and google ads [solved] In-Reply-To: <20090308154146.28224f13-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090308152033.011ad504@teksavvy.com> <20090308193238.GA4208@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20090308154146.28224f13@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090308154710.0ae7c8b7@teksavvy.com> JoeHill wrote: > William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 08, 2009 at 03:20:33PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > > > > > >Thank whoever for AdBlock, I honestly can't imagine the Web without it now. > > > > > >One thing I just found, kinda weird, is on this page: > > > > > >http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090316/alterman > > > > > >there is an animated Google ad to the right ('what's your nation-ality?') > > >that I cannot seem to block. It's URL already shows up as one of my > > >'exception rules', which is funny, because I have definitely _never_ set up > > >any exception rules. I hate _all_ ads, no matter what, I don't want to see > > >any. > > > > > >I cannot remove this exception from my adblock prefs, and I cannot add it > > >to my blocked items. > > > > I am using AdBlock Plus, and I do not see the ad that you see. YMMV. > > Okay, so it is possible to block it. Do you have a filter rule for: > > pagead2.googlesyndication.com > > I entered that as a new rule from the prefs dialogue (manually), still not > blocked. And when I hover my mouse over the item in the blockable items list, > the tooltip shows 'whitelisted', even though now I have deleted all 'exception > rules'. > > Very frustrating. Subscriptions! Didn't know about those, the ad is killed :-) -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 8 20:53:28 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 16:53:28 -0400 Subject: openoffice.org on Lenny Message-ID: Want to install Openoffice.org 3.0 on this Lenny system. I did some searching, and I found that there seem to be a few opinions on the preferred method. Some people advocated using the Openoffice installer, some advocated using the experimental repo and apt-pinning. Any experiences with this? Thanks! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 8 20:56:10 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 16:56:10 -0400 Subject: linksys wireless on Debian Testing In-Reply-To: <49AFFE8A.7070703-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20090304124512.481ea546@teksavvy.com> <20090304125448.1eb3aac6@teksavvy.com> <20090304201453.GH12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090305005914.3340d12c@teksavvy.com> <20090305143214.GJ12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090305110559.39bad5f2@teksavvy.com> <49AFFE8A.7070703@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > JoeHill wrote: >> >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 05, 2009 at 12:59:14AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: >>>> >>>> I went back and looked at it again. This time I went in to the network >>>> config in the system menu, and it opened a dialogue to enter the >>>> wireless >>>> network settings, but it does not have a choice for WPA and a >>>> passphrase, >>>> only for WEP with a WEP password. >>>> >>>> Is WPA not supported, or am I still in the wrong spot for this? >>> >>> Well I have certainly seen a laptop at work with Debian lenny installed, >>> that just worked. ?It supported WEP and WPA and WPA2 when you clicked >>> on the network manager system tray icon in gnome. >>> >>> What are you running on your system? >> >> Debian Testing, with wpa_supplicant installed. Is it possible that it's >> just >> not supported by the card? I saw some argument about that when searching, >> but >> the output from hwinfo seemed to show support for wpa: >> >> 2.462 2.467 2.472 WLAN encryption modes: WEP40 WEP104 TKIP CCMP >> ?WLAN authentication modes: open sharedkey wpa-psk wpa-eap >> > > Debian testing is now Debian Squeeze. I'm not sure what has come in from > sid, but I'd expect testing to be a little unstable for a few months. Are > you intending to use Squeeze or Lenny? btw, tbrucemilne = joehill Actually, now that I check it again, even though I used a Debian Testing net install ISO, the sources.list shows this system as Lenny. > Jaomn huh? ;) Hey, anyone know how to tell gmail to use a shorter line wrap? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 8 22:37:21 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 22:37:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: does anyone know if the Pic microprocessor programmers sold by futurelec have linux support ? Message-ID: The subject says it all. They also sell Atmel programmers. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 02:11:16 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 22:11:16 -0400 Subject: no install-css.sh? Message-ID: On a new Debian Lenny install, I followed the usual two-step to get DVD playback going, but I'm not getting the usual results. I installed libdvdread3, totem-xine libxine1-ffmpeg, then tried to run /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/install-css.sh, but this time there's no such script. :-\ Is there some other method come along to replace this? Many thanks! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 04:04:29 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 00:04:29 -0400 Subject: no install-css.sh? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B4954D.4090804@teksavvy.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > On a new Debian Lenny install, I followed the usual two-step to get > DVD playback going, but I'm not getting the usual results. I installed > libdvdread3, totem-xine libxine1-ffmpeg, then tried to run > /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/install-css.sh, but this time there's no > such script. :-\ > > Is there some other method come along to replace this? > What is the usual two-step? I'm using synaptic and have mplayer, vlc and xine-ui installed. Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 04:42:35 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 00:42:35 -0400 Subject: no install-css.sh? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B49E3B.3020201@teksavvy.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > On a new Debian Lenny install, I followed the usual two-step to get > DVD playback going, but I'm not getting the usual results. I installed > libdvdread3, totem-xine libxine1-ffmpeg, then tried to run > /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/install-css.sh, but this time there's no > such script. :-\ > > Is there some other method come along to replace this? > Maybe this may help? from /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/README.Debian libdvdread for Debian --------------------- Many DVDs use CSS[0]. To play these discs, a special library is needed to decode them, libdvdcss. Due to legal problems in some particular countries, Debian does not distribute libdvdcss. If it is legal for you to use CSS in your country, you can: * Install the packages from . * Manually download and compile the source code from . [0] -- Daniel Baumann Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:03:00 +0200 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 04:54:27 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 00:54:27 -0400 Subject: no install-css.sh? In-Reply-To: <49B4954D.4090804-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <49B4954D.4090804@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Meng Cheah wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> On a new Debian Lenny install, I followed the usual two-step to get >> DVD playback going, but I'm not getting the usual results. I installed >> libdvdread3, totem-xine libxine1-ffmpeg, then tried to run >> /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/install-css.sh, but this time there's no >> such script. :-\ >> >> Is there some other method come along to replace this? >> > > What is the usual two-step? > > I'm using synaptic and have mplayer, vlc and xine-ui installed. > Usually like this: aptitude install libdvdread3 etc. /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/install-css.sh This time I went out and got the script from a link on the Ubuntu forums, that did the trick. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From snkiz-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 06:14:43 2009 From: snkiz-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Ck) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 02:14:43 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for becoming a system admin In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0903081153q770ada22yfa82d81e8edc6390-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <6a4686e30903080636q1b1733bfgfd3c59dc78dfcb2d@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0903081153q770ada22yfa82d81e8edc6390@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6a4686e30903082314m77a0bf39q17f4386e1bac0eac@mail.gmail.com> I should clarify a little I guess. I'm 27, have a wife and three kids, a degree/diploma isn't what I had in mind exactly. I need a change and a challenge, and I want to enjoy what I do again. I don't want to travel the world or get rich just happy. so I was thinking a certificate program that would get me in the door and I can build on would be good. As I said before I have learned a lot on my own playing (I'm in the process of building a network I don't really need just to see how.) but its more or less I look things up as I need to. The suggestions I've gotten here have helped a lot so far. Google is good people are better. I guess my goal would be to manage a small to medium sized Unix-like network and gain the the skills necessary to more directly contribute to open source. It's not that I can't use windows I just don't want to. Besides in my past experience I waste to much time and resources tiring to stabilize and secure windows instead of using windows. and I can't afford a mac. Of course now I waste to much time messing up perfectly good Linux installs. That being said I do realize I'd have to learn more about MS as well, at least a little. On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Ck wrote: >> I've been really enjoying fiddling with Linux the last two years, so >> much so that its been suggested that I look into a career in systems >> admin. My searches so far have been overwhelming to say the least, so >> many choices. So I was wondering... well I was wondering where do I >> start? I mean what courses would be good, collage or business school? >> what languages would I need to learn? basically everything. any >> suggestions? I should note my interest in windows is limited (not >> fun). >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > Not sure how old you are so I'm going to assume you might be early > 20's/college age? > > Not to knock your possible choices in careers, but experience (my own > and that of many friends in the industry) seems to indicate that > making a career out of something often makes it somewhat less > enjoyable as a hobby, but if you find a job that allows you to explore > new avenues then often the "wow, that's really cool, I can't believe > it got it to work" factor evens it out. Most jobs though, aren't > necessarily going to be so much about learning cool new things as > maintaining existing systems within a given routine, and possibly > spot-learning when an unexpected situation comes up. > > That being said, a good IT education (degree/diploma) is usually a > good base-point for getting into the industry in general. Even if a > lot of it isn't Linux-related (and chances are it won't be) the > courses *do* build a lot of good work/planning habits. I've seen a lot > of people who are great with 'nix but have terrible > planning/coordination/group habits. Since I'm from BC I can't > recommend a particular school, but I would still say that a degree > generally opens more doors if you want to beyond being a SysAdmin (IT > manager, perhaps) or work outside of the country, etc. Co-op programs > are awesome too, since you get real experience (and in many cases, get > paid). Most college/uni courses have a good enough mix that you'll be > getting some programming, business/communication, group, hardware, and > administration experience. Knowing your way around a shell and > automating is almost always a good skill though. Paper-courses in > things like Cisco/networking also come handy in a lot of situations, I > see plenty of jobs that want good networking experience/certs on top > of the general SysAdmin stuff. > > Alternately/additionally, your first job is probably going to suck > pay-wise, and may very well not be a 9-5 (a 24-hr rotating NOC > position seems standard for those first entering the workforce). It > might suck, but if you manager to push past it then things generally > get better moving forward. > > - TJA > > p.s. Don't completely dismiss windows. It's a lot easier to find a job > if you have mixed skills, and often enough many environments may have > both 'nix and windows infrastructure. There can still be some fun in > working in hybrid networks. Macs are cool too since OSX is to a good > extent built-on-BSD. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 08:31:04 2009 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 03:31:04 -0500 Subject: Any Opinions On This Laptop for Linux, any other suggestions Message-ID: <1236587463.5276.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, I'm in the market for a new laptop. Right now I'm looking at a Dell M1530. The one on the right here. It has: Intel? Core? 2 Duo Processor T8100 (2.1GHz/800Mhz FSB, 3MB 4 GB Ram 256MB NVIDIA? GeForce? 8600M GT http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/upsell_1530_systems?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs It will be around 1300.00 + taxes . Can anyone recommend anything else that will be Linux friendly with similar components. I've been using HP but couldn't find anything similar locally. I'd like to stay with Nvidia cards as I've found they work well with Linux. Any advice is appreciated. Thnnks, Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 07:00:41 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 03:00:41 -0400 Subject: Comments on another CRTC draft submission Message-ID: <20090309070041.GA16310@waltdnes.org> There is currently a break in the CRTC hearings on regulating "new media". 90% of the submissions want an internet tax of 3% to fund "Kanadian Kulture". And SAC (Songwriters Association of Canada) wants a $5/month piracy tax on top of that. The notice and scope of the hearings are in the two announcements at... http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2008/n2008-11.htm http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2008/n2008-11-1.htm The written comments are at... http://support.crtc.gc.ca/applicant/applicant.aspx?pn_ph_no=2008-11&lang=E Text transcripts of the oral presentation are at... http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/transcripts/2009/index.htm#tb0217 in the first batch (Volumes 1..7). Some of the presentations are in French. I had a second browser window open to Google translator to help me out with that. One warning, if you're on high-blood-pressure-medication, take it before reading the transcripts. They're sickening/infuriating. The hearings resume Monday March 9, and the transcripts are usually up by noon the following business day. The deadline for final replies is 2009/03/27. I'll wait until after the hearings finish to submit my reply, in case anything new and major comes up, and I want to change my brief. In the meantime, here's what I've got written up so far, Comments appreciated, and if you "fined a knee type owes", plese let me know. I've temporarily put it up in my webspace at http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/crtc.txt There's no webpage per se, but the direct link works. A couple of notes about references you'll see in the transcripts and in my draft brief... - "The Commission" refers to the CRTC in this context - "Peter Grant" refers to a guy by that name, who proposed a tax on internet accounts, based on a study by Ellacoya Networks. I use a Bell submission from the throttling hearings to try to rebut the study ("The enemy of my enemy", etc) -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 15:53:19 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:53:19 -0400 Subject: help with adblock and google ads In-Reply-To: <20090308154146.28224f13-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090308152033.011ad504@teksavvy.com> <20090308193238.GA4208@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20090308154146.28224f13@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: What about just putting this in your dns settings or /etc/hosts: 127.0.0.1 pagead1.googlesyndication.com pagead2.googlesyndication.com We do something similar to know adware domains using bind9. It works. But you might want to point it at a real web server. On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 3:41 PM, JoeHill wrote: > William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > >> On Sun, Mar 08, 2009 at 03:20:33PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: >> > >> >Thank whoever for AdBlock, I honestly can't imagine the Web without it now. >> > >> >One thing I just found, kinda weird, is on this page: >> > >> >http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090316/alterman >> > >> >there is an animated Google ad to the right ('what's your nation-ality?') >> >that I cannot seem to block. It's URL already shows up as one of my >> >'exception rules', which is funny, because I have definitely _never_ set up >> >any exception rules. I hate _all_ ads, no matter what, I don't want to see >> >any. >> > >> >I cannot remove this exception from my adblock prefs, and I cannot add it to >> >my blocked items. >> >> I am using AdBlock Plus, and I do not see the ad that you see. ?YMMV. > > Okay, so it is possible to block it. Do you have a filter rule for: > > pagead2.googlesyndication.com > > I entered that as a new rule from the prefs dialogue (manually), still not > blocked. And when I hover my mouse over the item in the blockable items list, > the tooltip shows 'whitelisted', even though now I have deleted all 'exception > rules'. > > Very frustrating. > > -- > J > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ Please consider the trees before print this email. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 16:28:36 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 12:28:36 -0400 Subject: Any Opinions On This Laptop for Linux, any other suggestions In-Reply-To: <1236587463.5276.18.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1236587463.5276.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49B543B4.4010400@alteeve.com> jim ruxton wrote: > Hi, > I'm in the market for a new laptop. Right now I'm looking at a Dell > M1530. The one on the right here. It has: > Intel? Core? 2 Duo Processor T8100 (2.1GHz/800Mhz FSB, 3MB > 4 GB Ram > 256MB NVIDIA? GeForce? 8600M GT > http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/upsell_1530_systems?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs > > It will be around 1300.00 + taxes . Can anyone recommend anything else > that will be Linux friendly with similar components. I've been using HP > but couldn't find anything similar locally. I'd like to stay with Nvidia > cards as I've found they work well with Linux. Any advice is > appreciated. > Thnnks, > Jim In the support work I do, I've seen endless troubles with Dell's. They also pull tricks like not charging their battery if you use a third-party charger. I've had wonderful luck with ASUS myself. When I had a trouble with my Eee's screen and needed to get it replaced, it was an honest to goodness pleasant experience. They let me drop it off at their depot in the GTA and less than 24h it was ready for pickup. No arguments, no paper work (beyond one sheet I returned when picking it up). http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019320&cid=896.645 An alternative is LG. A few clients of mine use LG and they've had very good luck with them. I couldn't find any LGs with nVidia to link. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 16:33:08 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 12:33:08 -0400 Subject: Any Opinions On This Laptop for Linux, any other suggestions In-Reply-To: <1236587463.5276.18.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1236587463.5276.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090309163307.GL12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 03:31:04AM -0500, jim ruxton wrote: > I'm in the market for a new laptop. Right now I'm looking at a Dell > M1530. The one on the right here. It has: > Intel?? Core??? 2 Duo Processor T8100 (2.1GHz/800Mhz FSB, 3MB > 4 GB Ram > 256MB NVIDIA?? GeForce?? 8600M GT > http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/upsell_1530_systems?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs > > It will be around 1300.00 + taxes . Can anyone recommend anything else > that will be Linux friendly with similar components. I've been using HP > but couldn't find anything similar locally. I'd like to stay with Nvidia > cards as I've found they work well with Linux. Any advice is > appreciated. Well here is one that costs slightly more but has significantly higher specs too (2.53GHz rather than 2.1GHz, nvidia 9650M GT with 1GB VRAM rather than 256MB, 800mhz ram instead of 667mhz, intel 5100 wifi instead of whatever a dell wifi adapter is (intel tends to have very good linux support) although it appears you can have the intel instead of the dell as an option). The asus includes a bluttooth mouse and carying bag (which tend to be rather nice) which are extras on the Dell. http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=020863&cid=896.645 Another one at a bit less which still has a 1GB 9600M GS and a 2.26GHz CPU. 1440x900 rather than 1280x800 display. http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019320&cid=896.645 And another 2.5GHz, 9600M GT 1GB, 1440x900 display, etc. http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019319&cid=896.645 So lots of choices. So far my experience with laptops is: Thinkspads work very well with linux in general. Support is good although you rarely need any. Tends to cost a bit more, but might be explained by the solid builds they tend to have. Asus laptops usually work well with linux, although sometimes the hotkeys need some acpi scripts to get working right. Support is excellent (and very fast if you need it). Not built like a Thinkpad, but still much more solid than their plastic may appear. I can't believe what my wife's tablet has survived so far. HP/Compaq (at least consumer models) are crap. Support stinks. No idea on linux support. Dell (both business and consumer models) are crap. Support varies. No idea on linux support. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 16:35:51 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 12:35:51 -0400 Subject: Any Opinions On This Laptop for Linux, any other suggestions In-Reply-To: <49B543B4.4010400-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1236587463.5276.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49B543B4.4010400@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090309163551.GM12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 12:28:36PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > In the support work I do, I've seen endless troubles with Dell's. They > also pull tricks like not charging their battery if you use a > third-party charger. Yeah there is that too. Of course a few years ago a lot of their models tended to stop charging the batteries after 6 to 12 months no matter what power supply you used. They unfortunate users were those where it happend after 13 months when Dell no longer paid for it. Apparently a new mainboard for a Dell model no longer in production isn't cheap. > I've had wonderful luck with ASUS myself. When I had a trouble with my > Eee's screen and needed to get it replaced, it was an honest to goodness > pleasant experience. They let me drop it off at their depot in the GTA > and less than 24h it was ready for pickup. No arguments, no paper work > (beyond one sheet I returned when picking it up). Yeah the asus place in markham is amazingly fast. I have never had anything take over 24 hours. I have no idea what kind of spare parts inventory they must keep in that building. > http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019320&cid=896.645 > > An alternative is LG. A few clients of mine use LG and they've had very > good luck with them. > > I couldn't find any LGs with nVidia to link. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 16:37:40 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 12:37:40 -0400 Subject: openoffice.org on Lenny In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090309163740.GN12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Mar 08, 2009 at 04:53:28PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote: > Want to install Openoffice.org 3.0 on this Lenny system. I did some > searching, and I found that there seem to be a few opinions on the > preferred method. Some people advocated using the Openoffice > installer, some advocated using the experimental repo and apt-pinning. > > Any experiences with this? I would never use a 3rd party installer if I could avoid it. Too messy. pinning would be preferable, although a backport is even better. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 16:38:29 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 12:38:29 -0400 Subject: help with adblock and google ads In-Reply-To: <20090308152033.011ad504-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090308152033.011ad504@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090309163829.GO12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Mar 08, 2009 at 03:20:33PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > Thank whoever for AdBlock, I honestly can't imagine the Web without it now. > > One thing I just found, kinda weird, is on this page: > > http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090316/alterman > > there is an animated Google ad to the right ('what's your nation-ality?') that > I cannot seem to block. It's URL already shows up as one of my 'exception > rules', which is funny, because I have definitely _never_ set up any exception > rules. I hate _all_ ads, no matter what, I don't want to see any. > > I cannot remove this exception from my adblock prefs, and I cannot add it to my > blocked items. > > WTF? I use the firefox noscript plugin, and a privoxy proxy. Those together seem to do wonders. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 17:09:53 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 13:09:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Comments on another CRTC draft submission In-Reply-To: <20090309070041.GA16310-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20090309070041.GA16310@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | The hearings resume Monday March 9, and the transcripts are usually up | by noon the following business day. The deadline for final replies is | 2009/03/27. I don't really understand the procedures. Thanks for telling me about the March 27 deadline. The Commission considers that the ability to reply to the written and/or oral submissions of other parties would be beneficial given the important issues raised in this proceeding. Accordingly, the Commission invites parties to provide final replies to matters raised in the initial written and/or oral submissions to the Commission by 27 March 2009. Are you a party? Am I? Would we have to have made an earlier submission to become a party? I would have thought so, but I don't know. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 19:11:49 2009 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 14:11:49 -0500 Subject: Any Opinions On This Laptop for Linux, any other suggestions In-Reply-To: <20090309163551.GM12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1236587463.5276.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49B543B4.4010400@alteeve.com> <20090309163551.GM12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1236625909.4792.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 11:35, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 12:28:36PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > > In the support work I do, I've seen endless troubles with Dell's. They > > also pull tricks like not charging their battery if you use a > > third-party charger. > > Yeah there is that too. Of course a few years ago a lot of their models > tended to stop charging the batteries after 6 to 12 months no matter > what power supply you used. They unfortunate users were those where it > happend after 13 months when Dell no longer paid for it. Apparently a > new mainboard for a Dell model no longer in production isn't cheap. > > > I've had wonderful luck with ASUS myself. When I had a trouble with my > > Eee's screen and needed to get it replaced, it was an honest to goodness > > pleasant experience. They let me drop it off at their depot in the GTA > > and less than 24h it was ready for pickup. No arguments, no paper work > > (beyond one sheet I returned when picking it up). > > Yeah the asus place in markham is amazingly fast. I have never had > anything take over 24 hours. I have no idea what kind of spare parts > inventory they must keep in that building. > > > http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019320&cid=896.645 > > > > An alternative is LG. A few clients of mine use LG and they've had very > > good luck with them. > > > > I couldn't find any LGs with nVidia to link. :) Wow.. Thanks Lennart and Madison . I hadn't looked at the Asus laptops. I had heard that the P line of dual Cores are better than the T line but for what I do I guess it won't matter. Looks like I'm off to Canada Computers. Much appreciated. Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 17:31:15 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 13:31:15 -0400 Subject: no install-css.sh? In-Reply-To: <49B49E3B.3020201-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <49B49E3B.3020201@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090309133115.4202e0d2@teksavvy.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: > > On a new Debian Lenny install, I followed the usual two-step to get > > DVD playback going, but I'm not getting the usual results. I installed > > libdvdread3, totem-xine libxine1-ffmpeg, then tried to run > > /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/install-css.sh, but this time there's no > > such script. :-\ > > > > Is there some other method come along to replace this? > > > Maybe this may help? > > from /usr/share/doc/libdvdread3/README.Debian > libdvdread for Debian > --------------------- > > Many DVDs use CSS[0]. To play these discs, a special library is needed > to decode > them, libdvdcss. Due to legal problems in some particular countries, > Debian does > not distribute libdvdcss. > > If it is legal for you to use CSS in your country, you can: > > * Install the packages from . Ah, I think that was it. On my first Debian system I had debian-unofficial enabled, on this one I did not. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 17:46:27 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 13:46:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Comments on another CRTC draft submission In-Reply-To: <20090309070041.GA16310-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20090309070041.GA16310@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: | From: Walter Dnes | http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/crtc.txt I'm reading your submission and nothing else. Of course that is a lazy approach that could be improved. I agree with the vast majority of what you said. | Page 4 Peter Grant's numbers are no longer valid I think that arguing that the figures are wrong isn't important. The principles are not affected by smallish quantitative differences. Worse, your argument butresses the idea that network neutrality is bad. | I consulted Bell's web page on the evening of March | 4, 2008, to check their rates. I bet that was this year, not last year. | I worry about Bell and other major ISPs having a conflict of interest. Amen. But Rogers is probably worse. No, I guess they all are trying the same businesses with different levels of success. | 1) Commission-approved, transparent, and equitable network management | 2) Outside of item 1), no blocking/slowing of traffic, except where | required by Canadian federal legislation or an order by a court of | competent jurisdiction Actually, one threat is subtly different: speeding up preferred traffic. Is that different from slowing other traffic? (You and I would say yes, but proponents would try to argue the opposite.) And yet, forbidding speeding up traffic would seem to prevent good engineering practice such as caches. | The submission by the CBC does raise the issue of handling | millions of people simultaneously wanting to view live streaming video | of news events. The submission used the examples of the US 2008 | election and US President Obama's inauguration. CBC's internet | facilities were overloaded as were portions of the internet. The | problem is that streaming 1 megabit per second to 5 million simultaneous | connections requires 5 terabits per second of throughput! Let's just | say "that does not scale". Have we run into a "scarcity", requiring | CRTC regulation? The answer is "NO". | | There is a network protocol designed for just this situation. It is | called "multicast". This would also be a good place to point out: the CBC should *want* "piracy" since it spreads their message without having to provide the bandwidth. Seriously: thinking of new problems in old ways is limiting. What is called "piracy" is an opportunity for new models as well as a threat to old ones. Example: CBC radio suffers from too few listeners and yet tries to control copies of its shows (only some are available as podcasts and only for a limited time). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 18:05:49 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 14:05:49 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: TLUG Meeting Tue Mar 10. In-Reply-To: <1236620882.19200.7.camel-v5PwOrKzT3TZQciNwA3an+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <1236620882.19200.7.camel@drugs.int.iplink.net> Message-ID: <49B55A7D.10501@ualberta.ca> Drew Sullivan wrote: > Date > > Tuesday March 10, 2009 > > Time > > 7:30 pm > > Topic > > Linux Games > > Speakers > > Colin McGregor > > Description > > Linux may not be as good a game platform as some other operating > systems, but that doesn't mean there aren't some fantastic games > available for Linux. > > This month Colin McGregor will be taking an overview look at a range of > games available under Linux, ranging from some old favourites to current > games. > > If there is interest, for the Linux laptop users we will attempt to run > the multiplayer version of "Battle for Wesnoth". Contact > colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org if you're interested. Thanks for giving this again! I've been playing some great games on Linux lately: Rocks n' Diamonds and GCCG. I have yet to try Wesnoth ... Could someone send me a distinguishing feature (color of attire, hair style, etc.) that I could use to find you at Pho Hung tomorrow.. it'll be my first time meeting any of you. Marc -- Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 18:36:43 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 14:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any Opinions On This Laptop for Linux, any other suggestions In-Reply-To: <1236587463.5276.18.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1236587463.5276.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: | From: jim ruxton | It will be around 1300.00 + taxes . Can anyone recommend anything else | that will be Linux friendly with similar components. I'm cheap so I would not pay that much for a notebook without reason. The half-life of a notebook is often fairly short. What is your "objective function" i.e. what features are important to you and what features would be nice? Oh, and how much shopping are you willing to do? Recently Lenovo has had quite good sales on random notebooks. In other words, if you want something in particular, it probably won't come up, but if you are flexible, something might. Dell has always done this. Here's what I care about in a notebook. This has evolved. - I don't care about processor speed: middle of the road isn't that different from top of the line. My intuition is that disk speed (4500 vs 5400 vs 7200 vs SSD) is more noticeable. Of course your workload may differ. - I don't care about fast video: I don't do anything for which it matters. I'm using a ~$50 video card in my current desktop because I'm too lazy to install the ~$500 video card (and requisite power supply) from my dead desktop. - I do want open source video drivers. That means I like Intel video. Except that there is some problem with one of the new Intel video chips (the one used in the Dell Mini 10, for example). - I care a lot about weight, size, and battery duration. I have a desktop if I want something that is heavy, large, and has no battery life. - I want more pixels. - I think that VT hardware is a Nice Thing to have even if I've rarely used it. That rules out a lot of Intel-based notebooks. It takes research to figure out which processors have VT (the T8100 does). - Linux compatible sleep may be very useful. Some problems are in the BIOS and some problems are in the Linux video drivers. Many problems are mysteries. My current notebook is a Lenovo X61t tablet with a high-res screen (that option is no longer available as far as I know). I paid $829+tax eight months ago (a Lenovo sale + botch). Included a 3 year warranty! Linux problems with it: takes arcane customizing to get the stylus to work and to get the extra buttons to work. Bluetooth stopped working in Ubuntu 8.10 in a recent update but fiddling can get it going again. The tablet features don't seem important to me at this point (you can't know without trying, and I haven't given it a fair try). Linux support for tablet PCs is not bountiful. Suspend is a problem with a lot of notebooks. The x61t is the best I've had from that standpoint (my 10-year-old notebook used APM and that worked but APM was ditched by progress). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 18:42:00 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 14:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: TLUG Meeting Tue Mar 10. In-Reply-To: <49B55A7D.10501-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1236620882.19200.7.camel@drugs.int.iplink.net> <49B55A7D.10501@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: | From: Marc Lanctot | Drew Sullivan wrote: | > This month Colin McGregor will be taking an overview look at a range of | > games available under Linux, ranging from some old favourites to current | > games. | Thanks for giving this again! Yes. Is there homework we should be doing for this meeting? Should we be bringing notebooks loaded with something in paticular? Does someone need to bring a wireless router for us to play a network game? (World of Goo was incredibly cheap from Steam this last weekend (US$5) but I didn't buy it because I worry about the intrusion of Steam and having to use Windows. Otherwise it is US$20 for Linux. I'm not a gamer but Goo sounded like it might be worth a try.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 18:53:30 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 14:53:30 -0400 Subject: Comments on another CRTC draft submission In-Reply-To: References: <20090309070041.GA16310@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20090309185330.GP12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 01:46:27PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > This would also be a good place to point out: the CBC should *want* > "piracy" since it spreads their message without having to provide the > bandwidth. > > Seriously: thinking of new problems in old ways is limiting. What is > called "piracy" is an opportunity for new models as well as a threat > to old ones. > > Example: CBC radio suffers from too few listeners and yet tries to > control copies of its shows (only some are available as podcasts and > only for a limited time). Well some of their shows involve music for which they only have broadcast rights (by paying the license fee), and not podcast rights. Some they may have a license for a limited time to distribute podcasts. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 19:09:12 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Comments on another CRTC draft submission In-Reply-To: <20090309185330.GP12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090309070041.GA16310@waltdnes.org> <20090309185330.GP12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 01:46:27PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > Example: CBC radio suffers from too few listeners and yet tries to | > control copies of its shows (only some are available as podcasts and | > only for a limited time). | | Well some of their shows involve music for which they only have broadcast | rights (by paying the license fee), and not podcast rights. Some they | may have a license for a limited time to distribute podcasts. That is true. It is a bug, not a feature. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 19:36:34 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 15:36:34 -0400 Subject: QA Lead In-Reply-To: References: <3C03BEAB.1A0EE524@rogers.com> <006f01c6b51b$a59815f0$0600a8c0@deb1> <44CF3640.4000702@rogers.com> <49B1D8B5.4040603@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49B56FC2.2070605@rogers.com> I don't know if anyone here is interested, but a recruiter recently sent this to me. I have done QA testing and work in telecom, but I'm not looking at the moment. If you respond, you can mention my name to Debbie. And no, I didn't see any mention of Linux either, but who knows? Job Title: QA Lead/Prime Location: Brampton Full-Time Job Description: Conduct test planning and develop test strategies and test plans Implement Test Procedures Estimate required effort for testing Review Analysis and Design artifacts Manage and mitigate test risks and issues Review unit, integration, system structural test plans and/or test results Report, analyze and compile test results, including defects and statistics Defect management Mentor and Lead test analysts through test case/script development and execution Lead and/or participate in test readiness reviews Conduct root cause analysis where appropriate Successfully execute allocated project tasks as per schedule while ensuring system functional stability Influence and evolve personal/team development, growth and performance Meet all IT operating and capital budget targets Ensure compliance with IT processes and continuous improvement Must Have Skills: Computer Science Degree/Diploma or equivalent experience. Minium 3 years recent leadership experience Background in Telecommunications preferred, and Business knowledge pertaining to Billing/Customer care environmentsMinimum 5 years testing experience Previous experience with testing and testing tools Automation testing experience is an asset Proficiency in planning processes, test principles and concepts, verification and validation methods and test management Excellent communication skills, both written and verbal, required Highly enthusiastic and willing to learn Assume accountability and contribute within a team environment Ability to work independently with minimal direction Strong organization skills and Strong analytical skills Excellent communication skills Thanks Very Much, Debbie Rae INTPS Inc (International Placement Services) 905-940-6003 -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 19:40:10 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 15:40:10 -0400 Subject: Any Opinions On This Laptop for Linux, any other suggestions In-Reply-To: <1236625909.4792.1.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1236587463.5276.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49B543B4.4010400@alteeve.com> <20090309163551.GM12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1236625909.4792.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49B5709A.4090507@rogers.com> jim ruxton wrote: > Wow.. Thanks Lennart and Madison . I hadn't looked at the Asus laptops. > I had heard that the P line of dual Cores are better than the T line but > for what I do I guess it won't matter. Looks like I'm off to Canada > Computers. Much appreciated. > Jim > I might be a little late but I highly recommend MSI laptops. You can check them out here: http://www.cnpcanada.com/ And some come without an OS so there is no Microsoft tax! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 19:58:43 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 15:58:43 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for becoming a system admin In-Reply-To: <6a4686e30903082314m77a0bf39q17f4386e1bac0eac-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <6a4686e30903080636q1b1733bfgfd3c59dc78dfcb2d@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0903081153q770ada22yfa82d81e8edc6390@mail.gmail.com> <6a4686e30903082314m77a0bf39q17f4386e1bac0eac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B574F3.6090709@ualberta.ca> Ck wrote: > I should clarify a little I guess. I'm 27, have a wife and three kids, > a degree/diploma isn't what I had in mind exactly. I need a change and > a challenge, and I want to enjoy what I do again. I don't want to > travel the world or get rich just happy. so I was thinking a > certificate program that would get me in the door and I can build on > would be good. As I said before I have learned a lot on my own playing > (I'm in the process of building a network I don't really need just to > see how.) but its more or less I look things up as I need to. The > suggestions I've gotten here have helped a lot so far. Google is good > people are better. I guess my goal would be to manage a small to > medium sized Unix-like network and gain the the skills necessary to > more directly contribute to open source. It's not that I can't use > windows I just don't want to. Besides in my past experience I waste to > much time and resources tiring to stabilize and secure windows instead > of using windows. and I can't afford a mac. Of course now I waste to > much time messing up perfectly good Linux installs. That being said I > do realize I'd have to learn more about MS as well, at least a little. I'm not from Toronto so I can't recommend any trade school or technical colleges for you here that offer certificate programs. In Montreal there would be Herzing and a few others.. .. but what I can tell you is that I've worked as a Linux system admin, in several departments at McGill University as well as at Ubisoft. I know a few people at Google California; they tend to work 10-12 per day on average. So working for the cool guys is sometimes not so cool. Personally, I preferred by far working for McGill because it was a more relaxed atmosphere and I could relate to the students and academic lifestyle more than to the industry, but I'll tell you a few things you should know. It's hard to completely escape Windows. People use it, and if that ever changes I'm not sure it will be any time soon. At McGill, it was the admin staff. At Ubisoft it was most of the programmers. At McGill NCS (their "main school-wide tech people") most of the servers were Linux or other Unix (Solaris) based, but most admin staff used Windows. Linux authentication via Active Directory was a big project because a lot of departments used Linux. Many researchers in the Science faculty used Linux other forms of Unix; at Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences they were using SGI Irix machines but had to use Windows for certain programs. So it's rare that you'll be able to evade the Windows support altogether, but if you can, that's great. BUT! If your users are using Linux desktops then you'll have to be in charge of security patches for Linux. In general I found this to be easier (using certain distros) and more pleasant but it can be equally as painful and boring sometimes. I will also say what someone else said: as soon as you turn a hobby into a career it tends to make you like it less. I loved helping people and "being in charge" so I'd still consider being a system admin, but sometimes lack of support or lack of documentation etc. got on my nerves. And all the responsibility can be stressful. When something breaks, guess who is blamed. You mention wanting to get into a position where you could contribute to open source. What you describe sounds like a great job. I'm sure a lot of us would like that, including myself. From what I gather -- I am not an authority on this -- that's just the problem; there are more people that want these types of jobs than are available. I was doing something like that at McGill, but I had contacts that got me in. I worked on a patch to Samba; I don't remember what it was exactly, but it never got submitted anyway. I'm not trying to discourage you.. what I'm saying is that research institutions or research divisions of large companies (ie. IBM?) is where you'll find these. It might make you feel better to know that I gained all my expertise from using Linux as a hobbyist at home. I had no official certificates to claim I was a "Linux expert", my department just happened to need a Linux sysadmin and I was around. That gave me the official experience I needed to get into Ubisoft. That was only 3 years after I'd installed Linux for the first time at home. So, it sounds like you have the experience but you need the "in". With this economy, good luck with that, but keep in mind that when people lose jobs they tend to go back to school, so UofT, Humber, Sheridan, etc. is a good place to start looking. And if you do a certificate somewhere (Sheridan?) then you will get to know the sysadmins there and have your "in". Marc -- Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions. -- Albert Einstein -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 20:55:38 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 16:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: thoughts on asus M70 laptop? Message-ID: since we're talking laptops, i'm keen on getting a new WUXGA display laptop, and i was checking out one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=34-220-412&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&SelectedRating=-1&PurchaseMark=&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&Page=1&Keywords=(keywords) who's had any experience with linux on something like this? or, more generally, with asus laptops in general? that looks like a pretty good price for a moderately-loaded 17" WUXGA laptop. and the reviews seem pretty decent. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 22:22:09 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:22:09 -0400 Subject: migrating server ips Message-ID: <49B59691.7050303@tmis.ca> Need to migrate a server from 1 IP to another. There are a number of hardcoded IPs. Is there a global search and replace function? or a utility say called like...ipr? ipr /etc -R 111.222.333 777.888.999 recursivley replace this ip with that one starting at /etc I am sure this can easily be done. -- -------------------------------------- Teddy David Mills TMIS Linux System Administrator E: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org W1: http://vger1.dyndns.org/ W2: http://vger1.dyndns.org/wordpress -------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 22:26:13 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:26:13 -0400 Subject: migrating server ips In-Reply-To: <49B59691.7050303-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <49B59691.7050303@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <49B59785.2060402@tmis.ca> RPL is one.. Teddy Mills wrote: > > Need to migrate a server from 1 IP to another. > There are a number of hardcoded IPs. > > Is there a global search and replace function? > or a utility say called like...ipr? > > ipr /etc -R 111.222.333 777.888.999 > > recursivley replace this ip with that one starting at /etc > I am sure this can easily be done. > -- -------------------------------------- Teddy David Mills TMIS Linux System Administrator E: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org W1: http://vger1.dyndns.org/ W2: http://vger1.dyndns.org/wordpress -------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 22:58:40 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:58:40 -0400 Subject: migrating server ips In-Reply-To: <49B59691.7050303-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <49B59691.7050303@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20090309225840.GC29146@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 06:22:09PM -0400, Teddy Mills wrote: > ipr /etc -R 111.222.333 777.888.999 > > recursivley replace this ip with that one starting at /etc > I am sure this can easily be done. I use a find/perl command: find /path -name "*.*" -exec \ perl -pi -e 's///g' {} \; You'll want to backup your files just in case. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 23:18:51 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 19:18:51 -0400 Subject: thoughts on asus M70 laptop? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090309231851.GQ12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 04:55:38PM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > since we're talking laptops, i'm keen on getting a new WUXGA display > laptop, and i was checking out one of these: > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=34-220-412&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&SelectedRating=-1&PurchaseMark=&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&Page=1&Keywords=(keywords) > > who's had any experience with linux on something like this? or, more > generally, with asus laptops in general? that looks like a pretty > good price for a moderately-loaded 17" WUXGA laptop. and the reviews > seem pretty decent. Looks pretty nice. Probably a bit heavy, and probably not a great battery life, but oh well that's life with large laptops. As for linux, it really depends on the components. hd/cpu/screen/dvd is no problem, the video chip should be fine. It appears to have an intel 5100 wifi, which should be fine with a recent linux distribution. Ethernet is probably fine too. So it should probably work with linux quite well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 23:20:08 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 19:20:08 -0400 Subject: migrating server ips In-Reply-To: <49B59691.7050303-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <49B59691.7050303@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20090309232008.GR12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 06:22:09PM -0400, Teddy Mills wrote: > Need to migrate a server from 1 IP to another. > There are a number of hardcoded IPs. > > Is there a global search and replace function? > or a utility say called like...ipr? > > ipr /etc -R 111.222.333 777.888.999 > > recursivley replace this ip with that one starting at /etc > I am sure this can easily be done. But /etc could contain bind data, hosts file, nfs entries in fstab, etc. Not everything is your IP address in there. It does not sound like a safe thing to do. perl -pi combined with find could certainly do it, but I wouldn't try. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 9 23:32:29 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 19:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: thoughts on asus M70 laptop? In-Reply-To: <20090309231851.GQ12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090309231851.GQ12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 04:55:38PM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > > > since we're talking laptops, i'm keen on getting a new WUXGA display > > laptop, and i was checking out one of these: > > > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=34-220-412&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&SelectedRating=-1&PurchaseMark=&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&Page=1&Keywords=(keywords) > > > > who's had any experience with linux on something like this? or, more > > generally, with asus laptops in general? that looks like a pretty > > good price for a moderately-loaded 17" WUXGA laptop. and the reviews > > seem pretty decent. > > Looks pretty nice. Probably a bit heavy, and probably not a great > battery life, but oh well that's life with large laptops. weight and battery life isn't that big an issue with me -- i don't use my laptop off-power all that much, and i've gotten used to lugging around sizable laptops. i'm more concerned with features, and WUXGA is a necessity for me. > As for linux, it really depends on the components. hd/cpu/screen/dvd is > no problem, the video chip should be fine. It appears to have an intel > 5100 wifi, which should be fine with a recent linux distribution. > Ethernet is probably fine too. > > So it should probably work with linux quite well. i suspected as much, i think it looks like a safe purchase. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 01:50:47 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:50:47 -0400 Subject: Comments on another CRTC draft submission In-Reply-To: References: <20090309070041.GA16310@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20090310015047.GA17681@waltdnes.org> > Are you a party? Am I? Yes. This is bureaucratic legalese that covers any person, group, corporation, etc. > Would we have to have made an earlier submission to become a party? No. That's not listed as a requirement. See http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/info_sht/g4.htm for general procedures. Go to http://support.crtc.gc.ca/rapidscin/default.aspx?lang=en and click on the button for 2008-11-1. This takes you to step 3 of a 6-step process. Submit comments via the form or fax or postal mail. If uploading a text file, I assume I should feed it through "unix2dos" first. There are no more opportunities to make an appearance for an oral presentation. You have to have a good reason to be allowed to make an appearance and oral presentation at the hearings. I've rarely commented, and definitely not about cable. Since I'm in a 6th floor condo with a clear SSE view from Buffalo, I can get 16 digital stations OTA (Over The Air) out of Toronto and Buffalo with an indoor antenna. A significant chunk of their schedule, especially weekend sports and evening prime-time, are in high definition. In addition there are 3 non-duplicate digital sub-channels and I get TVO in analogue because it won't be going digital until the last moment (August 31, 2011). I've looked at Rogers' website, and I priced it out at $51.90 per month, out-of-pocket, to duplicate what I get for free with a good indoor antenna. So thanks, but no thanks, Rogers. The internet issue affects me personally, so I'm commenting. Another option to consider is writing to your MP and asking that the broadcast act be revised to strip the CRTC of its ability to regulate the internet as a broadcast regulator. To clarify things, the CRTC has jurisdiction to regulate the net as a telecomm regulator and (so it claims) as a broadcast regulator. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 01:54:23 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 21:54:23 -0400 Subject: Comments on another CRTC draft submission In-Reply-To: References: <20090309070041.GA16310@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20090310015423.GB17681@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 01:46:27PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > | I consulted Bell's web page on the evening of March > | 4, 2008, to check their rates. > > I bet that was this year, not last year. Oops. Thanks. That's exactly the type of stuff I was hoping people would find. It's corrected now. > | 1) Commission-approved, transparent, and equitable network management > | 2) Outside of item 1), no blocking/slowing of traffic, except where > | required by Canadian federal legislation or an order by a court of > | competent jurisdiction > > Actually, one threat is subtly different: speeding up preferred > traffic. Is that different from slowing other traffic? (You and I > would say yes, but proponents would try to argue the opposite.) > > And yet, forbidding speeding up traffic would seem to prevent good > engineering practice such as caches. I'll have to look at including that in condition 1, maybe like... 1) Commission-approved, transparent, and equitable network management, including neutral and non-invasive caching of frequently-visited sites -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 02:15:54 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 22:15:54 -0400 Subject: migrating server ips In-Reply-To: <49B59691.7050303-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <49B59691.7050303@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20090310021554.GC17681@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 06:22:09PM -0400, Teddy Mills wrote > Need to migrate a server from 1 IP to another. > There are a number of hardcoded IPs. > > Is there a global search and replace function? You can feed a script with commands to "ed" but any automated search and replace is dangerous. I would recommend using "grep" to spit out a list of all occurences of the old IP address like so... grep -R "111\.222\.333\.444" /etc/* > ip_list.txt Then go in and manually edit the files and occurences listed, after confirming that it's OK to do so. A bit of unix trivia. A long time ago, in a place not too far away, Unix was rather primitive. There was no grep command. People would use "ed" to list lines that matched certain criteria. Using a text editor to do straight listing can be dangerous, but that's all they had. The algorithm was to have "ed" go through the entire file, match a regular expresion, and print all lines that matched. The "ed" command to go through a file is "g". The short-hand notation for regular expression is "re". The print-to-stdout command is "p". Put them all together, and the shorthand notation is "g/re/p". So guess what they called it when someone wrote a read-only version of "ed", dedicated to listing strings that match specified regular expressions? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 07:05:46 2009 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:05:46 -0500 Subject: Any Opinions On This Laptop for Linux, any other suggestions In-Reply-To: <49B5709A.4090507-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1236587463.5276.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49B543B4.4010400@alteeve.com> <20090309163551.GM12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1236625909.4792.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49B5709A.4090507@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1236668746.5041.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 14:40, Stephen wrote: > jim ruxton wrote: > > Wow.. Thanks Lennart and Madison . I hadn't looked at the Asus laptops. > > I had heard that the P line of dual Cores are better than the T line but > > for what I do I guess it won't matter. Looks like I'm off to Canada > > Computers. Much appreciated. > > Jim > > > I might be a little late but I highly recommend MSI laptops. You can > check them out here: > > http://www.cnpcanada.com/ > > And some come without an OS so there is no Microsoft tax! I took a look but they don't have anything there as powerful as I am looking for. Thanks though for the tip. Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 07:04:16 2009 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:04:16 -0500 Subject: Any Opinions On This Laptop for Linux, any other suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <1236587463.5276.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1236668656.5041.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > Here's what I care about in a notebook. This has evolved. > > - I don't care about processor speed: middle of the road isn't that > different from top of the line. My intuition is that disk speed > (4500 vs 5400 vs 7200 vs SSD) is more noticeable. Of course > your workload may differ. > > - I don't care about fast video: I don't do anything for which it > matters. I'm using a ~$50 video card in my current desktop because > I'm too lazy to install the ~$500 video card (and requisite power > supply) from my dead desktop. > > - I do want open source video drivers. That means I like Intel video. > Except that there is some problem with one of the new Intel video > chips (the one used in the Dell Mini 10, for example). Thanks for this Stephen. I'm fairly concerned about Video Speed since I do a lot of work doing real time video crunching and processing. I would prefer open source video drivers but I don't know that is going to happen with Nvidia any time soon. To get more battery life I can step down the processor when I'm running on battery. Usually when doing real time video I have AC anyway. I'm afraid of tablet PC's. I carry my laptop around a lot and I'm worried about reliability. > > - I care a lot about weight, size, and battery duration. I have a > desktop if I want something that is heavy, large, and has no > battery life. > > - I want more pixels. > > - I think that VT hardware is a Nice Thing to have even if I've rarely > used it. That rules out a lot of Intel-based notebooks. It takes > research to figure out which processors have VT (the T8100 does). I'll probably get a T9400 0r P8600 both of which has the virtualization technology. > > - Linux compatible sleep may be very useful. Some problems are in the > BIOS and some problems are in the Linux video drivers. Many > problems are mysteries. Ya I've had major problems with this. Hopefully I can work it out on my new laptop. > > My current notebook is a Lenovo X61t tablet with a high-res screen > (that option is no longer available as far as I know). I paid > $829+tax eight months ago (a Lenovo sale + botch). Included a 3 year > warranty! Wow 3 years that awesome. You did luck out. > > Linux problems with it: takes arcane customizing to get the stylus to > work and to get the extra buttons to work. Bluetooth stopped working > in Ubuntu 8.10 in a recent update but fiddling can get it going again. I had the same Bluetooth issue with Kubuntu 8.1 , hopefully it is fixed in the next release. > > The tablet features don't seem important to me at this point (you > can't know without trying, and I haven't given it a fair try). Linux > support for tablet PCs is not bountiful. > > Suspend is a problem with a lot of notebooks. The x61t is the best > I've had from that standpoint (my 10-year-old notebook used APM and > that worked but APM was ditched by progress). Thanks again for your comments. All the advice I get is extremely helpful. cheers, Jim > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 07:46:22 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 03:46:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: migrating server ips In-Reply-To: <49B59691.7050303-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <49B59691.7050303@tmis.ca> Message-ID: | From: Teddy Mills | ipr /etc -R 111.222.333 777.888.999 A doted triple? Possible, but not usually intended. 333 and up are not valid either. Surprisingly, those two features kind of cancel out since 111.222.333 actually means the same as 111.222.1.77 But nothing saves 777.888.999 Beware "." is a regular expression operator. String equality is not the same as ip address equality. See inet_aton(3) to see all the ways of writing an IP address. Think of leading zeros. Think of hex. All this suggests that hand editing is called for. Oh, and consider using DNS or even /etc/hosts. This would seem to be an opportunity to cut over. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 13:11:47 2009 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:11:47 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in canada (preferably) Message-ID: <3cb765320903100611j305dd5c2va3fca7f235fdf74a@mail.gmail.com> hey all, looking for a $100/month (CAD) dedicated hosting: from this list: http://ca.tophosts.com/showcases/dedicated/ any red or green flags? i was thinking of these guys: http://www.ultrahosting.com/ (US prices but apparently based out of Toronto) any thoughts would be appreciated... Scott -- Scott C. Ripley (scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org) mobile: 416.738.6357 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 14:24:16 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:24:16 -0400 Subject: Any Opinions On This Laptop for Linux, any other suggestions In-Reply-To: <1236668656.5041.15.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1236587463.5276.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1236668656.5041.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090310142416.GS12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 02:04:16AM -0500, jim ruxton wrote: > Thanks for this Stephen. I'm fairly concerned about Video Speed since I > do a lot of work doing real time video crunching and processing. I would > prefer open source video drivers but I don't know that is going to > happen with Nvidia any time soon. To get more battery life I can step > down the processor when I'm running on battery. Usually when doing real > time video I have AC anyway. I'm afraid of tablet PC's. I carry my > laptop around a lot and I'm worried about reliability. Certainly there hasn't been any indication of open source happening from nvidia. ATI talks about it, but I will wait until it happens and someone actually makes it work before I believe it. Intel certainly has nice open source drivers, but their chips are not particularly fast. The new G4x chips are supposedly a lot faster than the 95x and G3x were, but still. > Ya I've had major problems with this. Hopefully I can work it out on my > new laptop. Suspend and sleep are very very hard problems to implement. I have seen it work on some thinkpads although they were running lts-ubuntu and hence had direct support to make it work from ibm. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 14:55:58 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:55:58 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in canada (preferably) In-Reply-To: <3cb765320903100611j305dd5c2va3fca7f235fdf74a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3cb765320903100611j305dd5c2va3fca7f235fdf74a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It's not on the list, but 3z Canada is pretty good. I have a few clients using their servers with no complaints. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > hey all, > > looking for a $100/month (CAD) dedicated hosting: > > from this list: > ? http://ca.tophosts.com/showcases/dedicated/ > > any red or green flags? > > i was thinking of these guys: > ? http://www.ultrahosting.com/ > ? (US prices but apparently based out of Toronto) > > any thoughts would be appreciated... > > Scott > > > > > > -- > Scott C. Ripley ?(scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org) > mobile: 416.738.6357 > -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ Please consider the trees before print this email. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 14:36:30 2009 From: erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Erik) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:36:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: dedicated hosting in canada (preferably) References: <3cb765320903100611j305dd5c2va3fca7f235fdf74a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Scott C. Ripley writes: > > hey all,looking for a $100/month (CAD) dedicated hosting:from this list:? http://ca.tophosts.com/showcases/dedicated/any red or green flags?i was thinking of these guys:? http://www.ultrahosting.com/? (US prices but apparently based out of Toronto)any thoughts would be appreciated...Scott-- Scott C. Ripley ?(scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org)mobile: 416.738.6357 Scott, We offer dedicated servers and custom solutions out of 151 Front St in Toronto. We're locally based with 24x7 local tech support. Check out http://www.caneris.com/Hosting for more details or contact me off-list. Regards, -- Erik Caneris Tel: 647-723-6365 Fax: 647-723-5365 Toll-free: 1-866-827-0021 www.caneris.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 20:23:40 2009 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:23:40 -0500 Subject: 32 or 64 bit ubuntu Message-ID: <1236716620.4800.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks to everyone who helped me with deciding on a laptop. I ended up getting this one at Canada Computers : http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=020863&cid=896.645 Now I am eager to put linux on it. I will use Kubuntu. I'm trying to decide if I should go with 32 bit or 64 bit. I use a lot of programs that don't come with the package. Many of which will be 32 bit. I read somewhere that I can use the -force-architecture flag to install 32 bit apps. I'm just wondering if having 64 bit will be more of a hassle than it is worth. Also considering triple booting vista, 64 bit kubuntu, 32 bit kubntu . Has anyone been down these roads before? Any sage advice? Thanks, jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 18:37:50 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:37:50 -0400 Subject: 32 or 64 bit ubuntu In-Reply-To: <1236716620.4800.15.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1236716620.4800.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49B6B37E.2030402@ualberta.ca> On 10/03/09 04:23 PM, jim ruxton wrote: > Thanks to everyone who helped me with deciding on a laptop. I ended up > getting this one at Canada Computers : > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=020863&cid=896.645 > > Now I am eager to put linux on it. I will use Kubuntu. I'm trying to > decide if I should go with 32 bit or 64 bit. I use a lot of programs > that don't come with the package. Many of which will be 32 bit. I read > somewhere that I can use the -force-architecture flag to install 32 bit > apps. I'm just wondering if having 64 bit will be more of a hassle than > it is worth. Also considering triple booting vista, 64 bit kubuntu, 32 > bit kubntu . Has anyone been down these roads before? Any sage advice? IMO it was more hassle than it was worth 2 years ago but now it's fine. Java has a 64-bit plugin and Flash works 64-bit now too. Some particular browser or mail plugins may have issues if they don't support 64-bit yet. I just went through this (64-bit Ubuntu).. look up the discussion with subject "The State of 64-bit Linux". You'll find my initial questions, all the answers, some discussion, and my post-mortem. If you don't have it let me know. I've been using it for a month or so. Works like a charm. It was for a desktop, though, so maybe wireless drivers and the like are considerations in your case. The only major thing is that there still is no 64-bit acroread (yet?).. but I've learned to love and embrace evince, so all is well. Marc -- The greatest shortcoming of the human race is the inability to understand the exponential function. -- Albert A. Bartlett -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 18:46:15 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:46:15 -0400 Subject: 32 or 64 bit ubuntu In-Reply-To: <1236716620.4800.15.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1236716620.4800.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49B6B577.90406@ualberta.ca> On 10/03/09 04:23 PM, jim ruxton wrote: > Thanks to everyone who helped me with deciding on a laptop. I ended up > getting this one at Canada Computers : > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=020863&cid=896.645 > > Now I am eager to put linux on it. I will use Kubuntu. I'm trying to > decide if I should go with 32 bit or 64 bit. I use a lot of programs > that don't come with the package. Many of which will be 32 bit. I read > somewhere that I can use the -force-architecture flag to install 32 bit > apps. I'm just wondering if having 64 bit will be more of a hassle than > it is worth. Also considering triple booting vista, 64 bit kubuntu, 32 > bit kubntu . Has anyone been down these roads before? Any sage advice? > Thanks, I just reread your post.. realized I missed something important. Can you clarify or elaborate "I use a lot of programs that don't come with the package"? Most Ubuntu packages that you get from apt all have 64-bit versions. Do you mean particular non-Ubunutu-packaged programs? If you can get their source you can build them on your own machine. If you have 32-bit binaries (commercial apps?), it depends on the size of the programs. If we're talking about small, maybe non-X, programs (not many library dependencies) then the linux32 script should suffice. If your 32-bit binaries have a lot of linker deps on external libs, you probably need 32-bit versions of those libraries compiled on your machine.. which is not impossible to have but then you would have to essentially have a copy of some 32-bit built libraries on your machine. 64-bit is becoming quite common; you should check to see if these programs have 64-bit versions available first. It would help if we knew what those programs were.. Marc -- The greatest shortcoming of the human race is the inability to understand the exponential function. -- Albert A. Bartlett -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 19:03:14 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:03:14 -0400 Subject: 32 or 64 bit ubuntu In-Reply-To: <1236716620.4800.15.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1236716620.4800.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49B6B972.1090602@ualberta.ca> On 10/03/09 04:23 PM, jim ruxton wrote: > Thanks to everyone who helped me with deciding on a laptop. I ended up > getting this one at Canada Computers : > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=020863&cid=896.645 > > Now I am eager to put linux on it. I will use Kubuntu. I'm trying to > decide if I should go with 32 bit or 64 bit. I use a lot of programs > that don't come with the package. Many of which will be 32 bit. I read > somewhere that I can use the -force-architecture flag to install 32 bit > apps. I'm just wondering if having 64 bit will be more of a hassle than > it is worth. Also considering triple booting vista, 64 bit kubuntu, 32 > bit kubntu . Has anyone been down these roads before? Any sage advice? I'm really sorry about the third post in a row, but I reread something again I can reply to. (I promise I'll READ the emails before replying in the future!!) I have done the triple boot with Windows, 32-bit Linux, and 64-bit Linux. It works, but you have to be careful about the /boot partition shared by the two Linux installs. If you don't share the boot partition then you'll have to keep merging the two separate grub.conf every time a kernel update is done. If you do share them then you have to make sure there are no naming conflicts.. eg a 64-bit and 32-bit kernel image may be different but have the same name (vmlinuz-2.6.27-generic or something) so files get overwritten when you do an update. There may be apps or some bootloader grub.conf tricks you can do to avoid this... anybody? FYI, I shared my data partition in both Linux installs, where I mounted /home and other data like my mp3s, web pages, database files, and svn repos and it worked fine.. so there was only a few GB of wasted overlap between the two Linux installs. Marc -- The greatest shortcoming of the human race is the inability to understand the exponential function. -- Albert A. Bartlett -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 20:10:28 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:10:28 -0400 Subject: syslog configuration Message-ID: Hi there, I am stuck with a syslog related problem and just want to throw it out here hoping someone may be in a position to see what I could be overlooking. Initially, it looked so trivial I assumed it will take less than 20 minutes, but have ended up being a little problematic than I thought. I want to send snmpd logs to a separate file. Its too noisy and is almost making the /var/log/message unusable. Below is what I have tried: Edited the syslog.conf and did the following changes; Added "snmpd.none" on the 7th line in syslog.conf file : *.info;mail.none;authpriv.none;cron.none;snmpd.none /var/log/messages Then added this line at the end of the file local1.* -/var/log/snmpd.log Then restarted syslog. It came up, but complained it has no idea what snmpd meant. And nothing changed, snmp keep pushing crap on the message file. I have also attempted to replace the previous line with the line below ; snmpd.* -/var/log/snmpd.log No luck. I have also looked through the snmp manual and it found nothing helpful there. Have anyone here played a bit with syslog? Thanks in advance. Regards, William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 20:36:30 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 32 or 64 bit ubuntu In-Reply-To: <49B6B972.1090602-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1236716620.4800.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49B6B972.1090602@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: | From: Marc Lanctot | I have done the triple boot with Windows, 32-bit Linux, and 64-bit Linux. It | works, but you have to be careful about the /boot partition shared by the two | Linux installs. If you don't share the boot partition then you'll have to keep | merging the two separate grub.conf every time a kernel update is done. If you | do share them then you have to make sure there are no naming conflicts.. I always have (at least) a couple of separate Linux installations on any particular machine. That way I can install a new one without breaking the old. It is easy to set it up so that one system's grub can chain load the other system's grub. Then each system maintains its own grub menu. This is really important if the systems differ in distro or version because, for example, /etc things would conflict. For what you do, the problem would likely only be transient (when one had some updates that the other did not). Still, I expect that two package managers would trip over each other. Perhaps your experience says otherwise. I always try to put grub on the boot record of the system's root partition. I will perhaps put one on the drive's master boot partition but not necessarily. Using a conventional MBR boot record plus fdisk to mark the partition to boot works well. | FYI, I shared my data partition in both Linux installs, where I mounted /home | and other data like my mp3s, web pages, database files, and svn repos and it | worked fine.. so there was only a few GB of wasted overlap between the two | Linux installs. I try to use a shared /home where I can. But that isn't always. I had a heck of a problem in one Fedora install where the new system labeled (perhaps the wrong term) /home for SE Linux in a way that made the old system (Fedora or RHL, I don't remember which) refuse to boot (it could not mount /home). Buried in release notes, I could have inferred this, but it wasn't obvious to me beforehand. Another problem is that the . files in each user's home directory may not be appropriate for all systems. Such a small thing, but important. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 20:53:02 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: syslog configuration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi | Added "snmpd.none" on the 7th line in syslog.conf file : | *.info;mail.none;authpriv.none;cron.none;snmpd.none /var/log/messages | | Then added this line at the end of the file | | local1.* -/var/log/snmpd.log | | Then restarted syslog. It came up, but complained it has no idea what snmpd meant. And nothing changed, snmp keep pushing crap on the message file. | No luck. I have also looked through the snmp manual and it found nothing helpful there. Read rsyslog.conf(5) (at least on my system, Fedora 10). The format of a selector is facility.priority. "snmpd" isn't a facility. The facility is one of the following keywords: auth, authpriv, cron, daemon, kern, lpr, mail, mark, news, security (same as auth), syslog, user, uucp and local0 through local7. The keyword security should not be used anymore and mark is only for internal use and therefore should not be used in applications. Anyway, you may want to specify and redirect these messages here. The facility specifies the subsystem that produced the message, i.e. all mail programs log with the mail facility (LOG_MAIL) if they log using syslog. That explains your error message. I don't remember at the moment how one is supposed to do what you want to do. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 21:32:17 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:32:17 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in canada (preferably) In-Reply-To: References: <3cb765320903100611j305dd5c2va3fca7f235fdf74a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B6DC61.5020407@rogers.com> Erik wrote: > Scott C. Ripley writes: > > >> hey all,looking for a $100/month (CAD) dedicated hosting:from this list: >> > http://ca.tophosts.com/showcases/dedicated/any red or green flags?i was thinking > of these guys: http://www.ultrahosting.com/ (US prices but apparently based > out of Toronto)any thoughts would be appreciated...Scott-- Scott C. Ripley > (scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org)mobile: 416.738.6357 > > > Scott, > > We offer dedicated servers and custom solutions out of 151 Front St in Toronto. > We're locally based with 24x7 local tech support. > > Where are you located in that building? My office used to be in the north east corner of the 5th floor. My work took me throughout the building, but most of it was on the 4th & 5th floors. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 10 21:34:30 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:34:30 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: TLUG Meeting Tue Mar 10. In-Reply-To: <49B55A7D.10501-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1236620882.19200.7.camel@drugs.int.iplink.net> <49B55A7D.10501@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <49B6DCE6.4090300@ualberta.ca> On 09/03/09 02:05 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Could someone send me a distinguishing feature (color of attire, hair > style, etc.) that I could use to find you at Pho Hung tomorrow.. it'll > be my first time meeting any of you. Anybody want to help me out.. I mean, that is, if you don't want to have a good laugh watching some random guy asking other random people if they are TLUG'ers ? :) Marc -- The greatest shortcoming of the human race is the inability to understand the exponential function. -- Albert A. Bartlett -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 01:13:55 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:13:55 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: TLUG Meeting Tue Mar 10. In-Reply-To: <49B6DCE6.4090300-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1236620882.19200.7.camel@drugs.int.iplink.net> <49B55A7D.10501@ualberta.ca> <49B6DCE6.4090300@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <49B71053.5010904@rogers.com> Marc Lanctot wrote: > On 09/03/09 02:05 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > >> Could someone send me a distinguishing feature (color of attire, hair >> style, etc.) that I could use to find you at Pho Hung tomorrow.. it'll >> be my first time meeting any of you. > > Anybody want to help me out.. I mean, that is, if you don't want to > have a good laugh watching some random guy asking other random people > if they are TLUG'ers ? :) > > Marc > Well, we're all nerds with shirt protectors and taped frames on our glasses. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 02:31:36 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:31:36 -0400 Subject: The Linux Game Tome Message-ID: <49B72288.4000901@ualberta.ca> Hi, I was asked to post this web site after mentioning it at the meeting: http://www.happypenguin.org/ There are lots of Linux and open source games out there.. most are not mature or barely functional; note the ability to sort by rating. :) The list of good ones is starting to grow quite large now, though... My current favorites are: Rocks n' Diamonds, Wormux, and GCCG (mtg). If anybody is ever up for playing multi-player by network, let me know! Marc -- The greatest shortcoming of the human race is the inability to understand the exponential function. -- Albert A. Bartlett -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 02:36:49 2009 From: redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (dave jackson) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux Message-ID: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> G'day Tlugers, -guess the following story may give some of us second thoughts on singing praises of Linux to all& sundry... cheers, dave ComputerBob says: Ken is a guy who really cares about people. And their freedom. He runs a charity that provides computers to disadvantaged children... http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 03:02:47 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:02:47 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <289066.35428.qm-JuoXZumChVGvuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: what's that quote about 'then they fight you, then you win'? ;) On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 10:36 PM, dave jackson wrote: > > G'day Tlugers, > -guess the following story may give some of us second thoughts on singing praises of Linux to all& sundry... > cheers, > dave > > ComputerBob says: > ? ?Ken is a guy who really cares about people. > ? ?And their freedom. > He runs a charity that provides computers to disadvantaged children... > http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html > > > ? ? ?__________________________________________________________________ > Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 04:07:24 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 00:07:24 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> Thomas Milne wrote: > what's that quote about 'then they fight you, then you win'? ;) I've never understood how, in the USA, the land of free markets, there can so often be the attitude that they're taking our jurbs!". Either they make a better product. Or they sell it at a better price. Or they offer better service. Or some combination of the three. In any instance, it's the free market at play, isn't it? It's the same with these damned bumber stickers I see "Still have a job? Then keep driving foreign.". Sorry, If a company can do better than you, then you need to work harder. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 12:15:43 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:15:43 -0400 Subject: The Linux Game Tome In-Reply-To: <49B72288.4000901-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49B72288.4000901@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0903110515g51c3e841g7d3ea8ef7fc04a6f@mail.gmail.com> Wormux is a great game. Between it and Frozen-Bubble one can waste a lot of time (but have fun). One thing I find sad though is that a lot of the more popular 'nix games are basically (enhanced) clones of existing games, with wormux being obviously derived from Worms, and FB's principals having been a long-standing arcade-game. Anyone know any original linux games? World of Goo comes to mind, though it's a cross-platform and not purely Linux game. On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Hi, > > I was asked to post this web site after mentioning it at the meeting: > > ?http://www.happypenguin.org/ > > There are lots of Linux and open source games out there.. most are not > mature or barely functional; note the ability to sort by rating. :) The list > of good ones is starting to grow quite large now, though... > > My current favorites are: Rocks n' Diamonds, Wormux, and GCCG (mtg). If > anybody is ever up for playing multi-player by network, let me know! > > Marc > > -- > The greatest shortcoming of the human race is the inability to > understand the exponential function. > ?-- Albert A. Bartlett > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 13:21:09 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:21:09 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <49B738FC.7030208-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090311132109.GA13052@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 12:07:24AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I've never understood how, in the USA, the land of free markets, there > can so often be the attitude that they're taking our jurbs!". I don't see much in the way of a free market in the US these days. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 13:26:53 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:26:53 -0400 Subject: The Linux Game Tome In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0903110515g51c3e841g7d3ea8ef7fc04a6f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49B72288.4000901@ualberta.ca> <3a97ef0903110515g51c3e841g7d3ea8ef7fc04a6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090311132653.GB13052@watson-wilson.ca> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 08:15:43AM -0400, Tyler Aviss wrote: >Anyone know any original linux games? World of Goo comes to mind, >though it's a cross-platform and not purely Linux game. Battle for Wesnoth. There is a team based FPS games where one side are aliens resembling insects. The perspective is very unique in that the aliens can climb walls and hang from ceilings. While not unique Enemy Territory is cracking good game. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 13:31:52 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any Opinions On This Laptop for Linux, any other suggestions In-Reply-To: <49B5709A.4090507-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1236587463.5276.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49B543B4.4010400@alteeve.com> <20090309163551.GM12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1236625909.4792.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49B5709A.4090507@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Mar 2009, Stephen wrote: > jim ruxton wrote: > > Wow.. Thanks Lennart and Madison . I hadn't looked at the Asus laptops. > > I had heard that the P line of dual Cores are better than the T line but > > for what I do I guess it won't matter. Looks like I'm off to Canada > > Computers. Much appreciated. > > Jim > > > I might be a little late but I highly recommend MSI laptops. You can check > them out here: > > http://www.cnpcanada.com/ > > And some come without an OS so there is no Microsoft tax! i took a quick look and was immediately turned off by the splashy banner, "WE RECOMMEND MICROSOFT VISTA/HOME XP" or something to that effect. not a fatal complaint, just a little grating. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 14:58:39 2009 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:58:39 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <49B738FC.7030208-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Madison Kelly wrote: > I've never understood how, in the USA, the land of free markets, there > can so often be the attitude that they're taking our jurbs!". > > Either they make a better product. > Or they sell it at a better price. > Or they offer better service. > Or some combination of the three. > > In any instance, it's the free market at play, isn't it? The problem is that American industry has looked at huge productivity gains and rationalized the paycheques out of the hands of hordes of American consumers. American industry is so proud of economizing on payroll that when they look at diving sales figures they can't figure out what's gone wrong. Since the economy has eliminated sensible reasons to pay people, we have to pay them for senseless reasons (e.g. maintaining born-to-break Windows systems) if we're going to pay them at all. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 15:07:59 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:07:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Madison Kelly writes: > In any instance, it's the free market at play, isn't it? As a foreigner (fm. Europe) I do not resent the shenanigans pulled here by various parties to increase their business (or share thereof), having seen such and worse elsewhere, what I strongly resent is the hypocrisy of calling the pork-and/or-union lined and taxed to death remains of a once upon a time famously free economy 'free' or 'open'. Among other discoveries I made here (in Canada) were: - The number of trades not regulated by trade corporations or unions (an thus open for 'outsiders' and implicitly to open fair competition in the job market) can be counted on the fingers of one hand - to the point where inter-provincial moves in certain trades are next to impossible. - The costs of doing business freelancing or employing someone are among the highest on this planet, and certainly on par with such costs in Europe. - The real tangible (not financial) benefits from standard mandatory (!) insurance (OHIP, house, employment insurance etc.) in case of need are in the 'hahaha, rofl - laugh if you can laugh' range. One better have cash reserves if going into hospital or god forbid some emergency, regardless of insurance. As I said, I am not criticizing the situation, just the hypocrisy of calling it any more 'free' or 'open for business' than anywhere else (like, f.ex. in Europe). The standard of living is certainly high, and life expectation and so on are very good, but please turn the 'hypocrisy' knob way way down from its present setting, and keep it there. This is not a personal attack or a direct or indirect response to anyone, especially not to the original poster or to Madison, it is meant as general procrastination / venting my opinions. I apologize in advance if I offend someone's feelings with this posting, it is not meant to be insulting. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 15:26:11 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:26:11 -0400 Subject: The Linux Game Tome In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0903110515g51c3e841g7d3ea8ef7fc04a6f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49B72288.4000901@ualberta.ca> <3a97ef0903110515g51c3e841g7d3ea8ef7fc04a6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B7D813.5090901@ualberta.ca> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Wormux is a great game. Between it and Frozen-Bubble one can waste a > lot of time (but have fun). > > One thing I find sad though is that a lot of the more popular 'nix > games are basically (enhanced) clones of existing games, with wormux > being obviously derived from Worms, and FB's principals having been a > long-standing arcade-game. > > Anyone know any original linux games? World of Goo comes to mind, > though it's a cross-platform and not purely Linux game. Yeah, Battle for Wesnoth is probably the most known. I'm not sure if these have been done but they seem original: Neverball, Enigma, Darwinia, though their genre has definitely seen quite a lot like them.. but that goes for Wesnoth as well. It's hard to be original in games these days in general, even harder if you have no resources except for self-motivation to work on them. That's why I hope to see a "Open Source Game Development" organization that will support these efforts in the future .. even if I have to be the one to start it. I have a few great ideas, but yeah, but nobody's willing to pay me for them.... (yet!)..... on my time off I tend to not want to do stuff that resembles work, so it's hard to get anywhere. Marc -- The greatest shortcoming of the human race is the inability to understand the exponential function. -- Albert A. Bartlett -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 15:38:04 2009 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:38:04 -0400 Subject: The Linux Game Tome In-Reply-To: <49B72288.4000901-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49B72288.4000901@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <49B7DADC.5090605@golden.net> Marc Lanctot wrote: > Hi, > > I was asked to post this web site after mentioning it at the meeting: > > http://www.happypenguin.org/ > > There are lots of Linux and open source games out there.. most are not > mature or barely functional; note the ability to sort by rating. :) > The list of good ones is starting to grow quite large now, though... > > My current favorites are: Rocks n' Diamonds, Wormux, and GCCG (mtg). > If anybody is ever up for playing multi-player by network, let me know! > > Marc > This Live-DVD allows you to test out many of the best games available. My preference is Tremulous because it's RTS and FPS. http://live.linux-gamers.net/?s=games John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 17:28:52 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The Linux Game Tome In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0903110515g51c3e841g7d3ea8ef7fc04a6f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49B72288.4000901@ualberta.ca> <3a97ef0903110515g51c3e841g7d3ea8ef7fc04a6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Wormux is a great game. Between it and Frozen-Bubble one can waste a > lot of time (but have fun). I have wasted far too much time playing crack-attack. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 18:08:04 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: dedicated hosting in canada (preferably) In-Reply-To: <3cb765320903100611j305dd5c2va3fca7f235fdf74a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3cb765320903100611j305dd5c2va3fca7f235fdf74a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <137166.61699.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 3/10/09, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > From: Scott C. Ripley > Subject: [TLUG]: dedicated hosting in canada (preferably) > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 9:11 AM > hey all, > > looking for a $100/month (CAD) dedicated hosting: > > from this list: > http://ca.tophosts.com/showcases/dedicated/ > > any red or green flags? > > i was thinking of these guys: > http://www.ultrahosting.com/ > (US prices but apparently based out of Toronto) > > any thoughts would be appreciated... > > Scott > > Check out what they offer in terms of backup storage. I am with Dedicated Central (Hostway) which are based in Vancouver. My server is Dell Poweredge 600, 512Mb, 80Gb HDD and comes with 15Gb ftp backup space. I pay US$99/month and so far I am a happy with their service. EK > > > > -- > Scott C. Ripley (scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org) > mobile: 416.738.6357 __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 21:52:55 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:52:55 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <49B738FC.7030208-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0903111452l7ec118a8wd2496f3eafeaefd6@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 12:07 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> what's that quote about 'then they fight you, then you win'? ;) > > I've never understood how, in the USA, the land of free markets, there can > so often be the attitude that they're taking our jurbs!". > > Either they make a better product. > Or they sell it at a better price. > Or they offer better service. > Or some combination of the three. > > ?In any instance, it's the free market at play, isn't it? > > ?It's the same with these damned bumber stickers I see "Still have a job? > Then keep driving foreign.". Sorry, If a company can do better than you, > then you need to work harder. > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> "Still have a job? Then keep driving foreign." It amazes me that people (in both Canada and the US), would rather blame my intelligent purchasing decisions over somebody else's poor business decisions. If the N American auto manufacturers made cars that were as reliable and efficient as overseas models, then I'd imagine more people would buy them. Instead they over-banked on resource-guzzlers and squandered their profits in countless poor decisions. These are the company heads that flew in to basically beg for taxpayer money using private jets. Waste and overconsumption is a lifestyle to them, and they simple don't seem to be able to think any other way. You see very similar patterns the same thing in the computer industry. Yes, some people are willing to spend money on a resource-sucking, poorly designed (security-wise) OS, and in some causes it suits their needs (just like some people do *need* a large truck, etc). However, others want to spend their money in a way that meets their needs more efficiently, and don't want to spend a wad of cash every few years to buy a few glitzy features but less performance. MS et al have plenty of money, and it's likely they'll manage to pull up before a nosedive akin to the auto-industry, but the initial excesses and poor decisions are still the same. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 21:55:36 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:55:36 -0400 Subject: The Linux Game Tome In-Reply-To: References: <49B72288.4000901@ualberta.ca> <3a97ef0903110515g51c3e841g7d3ea8ef7fc04a6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0903111455t5d7f4d27tca325cfa1608d9e3@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> Wormux is a great game. Between it and Frozen-Bubble one can waste a >> lot of time (but have fun). > > ? I have wasted far too much time playing crack-attack. > > -- > ? Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ? ? ? ? > ? ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== > ? Author: > ? Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Oh dear lord, don't even get me *started* on crack attack. Some this pass the "addicting" threshold into pure evil! :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 21:59:55 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:59:55 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0903111459o660baa40t9265fec12afc8ea@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Peter wrote: > Madison Kelly writes: >> ? ?In any instance, it's the free market at play, isn't it? > > As a foreigner (fm. Europe) I do not resent the shenanigans pulled here by > various ?parties to increase their business (or share thereof), having seen such > and worse elsewhere, what I strongly resent is the hypocrisy of calling the > pork-and/or-union lined and taxed to death remains of a once upon a time > famously free economy 'free' or 'open'. > > Among other discoveries I made here (in Canada) were: > > - The number of trades not regulated by trade corporations or unions (an thus > open for 'outsiders' and implicitly to open fair competition in the job market) > can be counted on the fingers of one hand - to the point where inter-provincial > moves in certain trades are next to impossible. > - The costs of doing business freelancing or employing someone are among the > highest on this planet, and certainly on par with such costs in Europe. > - The real tangible (not financial) benefits from standard mandatory (!) > insurance (OHIP, house, employment insurance etc.) in case of need are in the > 'hahaha, rofl - laugh if you can laugh' range. One better have cash reserves if > going into hospital or god forbid some emergency, regardless of insurance. > > As I said, I am not criticizing the situation, just the hypocrisy of calling it > any more 'free' or 'open for business' than anywhere else (like, f.ex. in > Europe). The standard of living is certainly high, and life expectation and so > on are very good, but please turn the 'hypocrisy' knob way way down from its > present setting, and keep it there. > > This is not a personal attack or a direct or indirect response to anyone, > especially not to the original poster or to Madison, it is meant as general > procrastination / venting my opinions. I apologize in advance if I offend > someone's feelings with this posting, it is not meant to be insulting. > > Peter > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > All true enough. Sometimes it seems that you have to laugh at the absurdity of the situation to keep from crying. In a great number of cases, the market seems to only be "free" to inside players or those with big wads of cash to buy/bribe their way into bigger wads of cash. After all, if a free market did exist, we wouldn't have to consider bailouts or other such things at all. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 11 22:39:00 2009 From: erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Erik (Caneris)) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:39:00 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in canada (preferably) In-Reply-To: <49B6DC61.5020407-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3cb765320903100611j305dd5c2va3fca7f235fdf74a@mail.gmail.com> ,<49B6DC61.5020407@rogers.com> Message-ID: James wrote: > Where are you located in that building? My office used to be in the > north east corner of the 5th floor. My work took me throughout the > building, but most of it was on the 4th & 5th floors. > 7th and 8th. Err..."offices", what's that? :) Don't think you'll find too many of those there nowadays, it's nearly all colo space....with windows (and some Windows too). Regards, Erik -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 02:08:26 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 02:08:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: The Linux Game Tome References: <49B72288.4000901@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Why not post server play willingness on irc.freenode.org#linuxcaffe ? Other gamers do this all the time. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 02:26:06 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:26:06 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in canada (preferably) In-Reply-To: References: <3cb765320903100611j305dd5c2va3fca7f235fdf74a@mail.gmail.com> ,<49B6DC61.5020407@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49B872BE.5040505@rogers.com> Erik (Caneris) wrote: > James wrote: > >> Where are you located in that building? My office used to be in the >> north east corner of the 5th floor. My work took me throughout the >> building, but most of it was on the 4th & 5th floors. >> >> > 7th and 8th. > > Err..."offices", what's that? :) > Don't think you'll find too many of those there nowadays, it's nearly all colo space....with windows (and some Windows too). > > Back when I worked there, Unitel Communications had most of the building and the main Toronto central office was on the 4th & 5th floors. For many years, Air Canada had a big Univac system for their reservations on the 6th, and many years ago, the 7th was company business offices. The old telegram business was on the 2nd floor. Lots of power stuff in the basement and a few other locations in the building. All told, I worked in that building for over 17 years. Back in the days when I was a computer tech, I worked on a wide variety of computers there, including Data General Nova & Eclipse, DEC PDP-8i, PDP-11, VAX 11/780, Collins 8500C (in Air Canada) and PR1ME. In my last few years there, I was in planning and I was the one who did virtually all the planning for communications equipment installations for Unitel in that building, the CN Tower and many customers in the downtown core. In that one building on Front St., there were over 6,000 bays (mostly 9' high) of equipment, that I had to keep track of. It took more than 7000 amps at 48V DC to power most of it, though there was also a fair bit running on AC and some on 24V DC. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 02:29:08 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:29:08 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in canada (preferably) In-Reply-To: References: <3cb765320903100611j305dd5c2va3fca7f235fdf74a@mail.gmail.com> ,<49B6DC61.5020407@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49B87374.8010600@rogers.com> Erik (Caneris) wrote: > James wrote: > >> Where are you located in that building? My office used to be in the >> north east corner of the 5th floor. My work took me throughout the >> building, but most of it was on the 4th & 5th floors. >> >> > 7th and 8th. > > Err..."offices", what's that? :) > Don't think you'll find too many of those there nowadays, it's nearly all colo space....with windows (and some Windows too). > > Forgot to mention. The reason it's a good "colo" building is that it was built as a telecom building, with reinforced floors to take the weight of all that equipment, risers for cables etc. There's also a lot of fibre running there now for connecting to the various telecom companies etc. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 02:51:32 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:51:32 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0903111452l7ec118a8wd2496f3eafeaefd6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0903111452l7ec118a8wd2496f3eafeaefd6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Kelly, > > > > > >> "Still have a job? Then keep driving foreign." > > It amazes me that people (in both Canada and the US), would rather > blame my intelligent purchasing decisions over somebody else's poor > business decisions. Actually, those stickers should never make you guilty. They are just funny and indicate the driver in front of you either have direct interest with the american car manufactures NOT their country or he/she is so out of touch with reality its not even funny. I think buying american car does not help in job saving much. Most of those american cars are mainly build in south America and other countries where labour is cheap. On the hand, foreign cars manufacturers do have a good percentage of their cars in North America manufactured in North America. In fact, this is one case where Bush got it right when he said its throwing good money after bad money. And however sad it is when someone looses a job, this is one case where these guys made their bed and should go ahead and sleep on it. Heck, they lobbied the government when California attempted to enforce some efficiency, exactly what the Japanese has been doing for decade and how is the japanese manufacturers, healthy. Okay, I take that back, but at least they are better shape than american mafucturers. So if you look at the problem from the government perspective, more jobs may actually be saved by backing the efficient once, saving on oil imports and other externalities related to inefficient cars. Now, why is it a futile thing to attempt saving american car manufacturers. I have three good reasons. 1) Time: If you look closely, car manufacturing is more like writing an operating system, a very evolutionary activity. You build on your previous position. If you have a lousy product, it make it all that hard to ever catch up with those who have perfected the art. If you doubt the evolutionary nature of the industry, look at Toyota tudra. Now I do not own one, but if you google for a couple of minutes on that brand, you will notice it has had a lot of reliability problems. That despite it was made by Toyota which is synonymous with reliability and over a billion dollars of investment. They will never catch up of ford for have perfected that sector. 2) Oil: Most people have concluded the recent $146 a barrel price what a market fuck ups. I believe it was purely driven by business fundamentals. Yeah the price of oil is now selling at $47 a barrel, but when you factor how far the world growth has fallen, $47 a barrel start looking way too expensive. Seriously, mid last year, the world growth rate was over 5%. Today, they are projecting it at -0.5%. That again is GLOBAL growth. If you were to convert that percentage change to dollars, it would be an imaginable number. Add the fact that we are not expected to see the end of this until 2010 if we are lucky. And yet, despite all that gloom, oil can hold at that price. I was expecting it to drop to $10. What this imply is when we finally turn the corner and start seeing some growth, you can expect a price of $146 and above. Its that or we stay in recession for ever. 3) Cultural change: North American society has been one very lucky community. They were in position to afford a living standard most of us only dream of. Then came globalization. Note, I am not against globalization, but the way it was implemented was seriously baised toward the rich. A story for another day, but if you are interested, read the Roaring nineties by Joseph Stiglitz. That has destroyed the middle class for good, the major buyers for American cars. The rich tend to buy Lamborghini, Ferari, BMW etc. Those cars that are stylish and good image. Since then, the house industry was the the single main factor making middle class family feel rich. That is now gone and with it the purchasing power of most americans. The American cars do not sell well outside America. Reason, any car with power above 2 litre engine is considered a guzzlers to most people outside america. The chinese do tend to love huge cars, but that market is cornered by chinese domestic manufactures with the help of Chinese government. I can not blame them, we are doing the same here. With this in mind, I tend to think supporting American cars is not worth it. There is just way too much head wind for very weak companies. True, they may survive, but tax payers are going to pay way to much for that to happen. If the government chicken and decide to back them well and good, but they should inform us of the full price we should be expected to foot. Not try to play Iraq game again - oh, it will just cost us $50 billion and then turn around an pull a 3 trillion bill. Read The three trillion dollar war by Stinglitz if you want to find more. Disclaimer, I may be seriously wrong here, as I can not claim to be objective. I do hate the guzzlers and that mean a not too balanced analysis. That said, I look forward to see if time will validate my observation Regards, William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 03:07:04 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:07:04 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0903111452l7ec118a8wd2496f3eafeaefd6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0903111452l7ec118a8wd2496f3eafeaefd6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 12:07 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Thomas Milne wrote: >>> >>> what's that quote about 'then they fight you, then you win'? ;) >> >> I've never understood how, in the USA, the land of free markets, there can >> so often be the attitude that they're taking our jurbs!". >> >> Either they make a better product. >> Or they sell it at a better price. >> Or they offer better service. >> Or some combination of the three. >> >> ?In any instance, it's the free market at play, isn't it? >> >> ?It's the same with these damned bumber stickers I see "Still have a job? >> Then keep driving foreign.". Sorry, If a company can do better than you, >> then you need to work harder. >> >> Madi >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > >>> "Still have a job? Then keep driving foreign." > > It amazes me that people (in both Canada and the US), would rather > blame my intelligent purchasing decisions over somebody else's poor > business decisions. Really? It doesn't amaze me at all. This view is deliberately encouraged by right-wing American pundits like Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh ad nauseam. I mean really, you're talking about a country where a third of the population is functionally illiterate. I can guarantee you would find a lot less of this kind of nonsense in Canada, though. Not because we are any more informed, although I believe we are, but because we are deliberately encouraged by the propagandists in our country to believe we are not even worthy of having a thriving entrepeneurial class. The Conservatives have spent the last few years making sure that Canada's economy is utterly subservient to the US, and nutjobs like those in the Fraser Institue spare no expense producing 'research' that shows we are better off as slaves to the rapacious greed of global syndicates. This story is not surprising at all, it is the direct result of jingoistic right wing American propaganda. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 04:07:41 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0903111452l7ec118a8wd2496f3eafeaefd6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi | Most of those american cars are mainly build in south | America and other countries where labour is cheap. I only agree with part of what you said. This part seems particularly odd. Unless you meant "the Southern US" instead of "south America". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From contact-uc+NVM1kvX9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 09:02:06 2009 From: contact-uc+NVM1kvX9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (I. Khider) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 05:02:06 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <289066.35428.qm-JuoXZumChVGvuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1236848526.3848.12.camel@khider.homenetwork> This is sorta like that damn guy who invented anti-biotics. Now that people are living longer, it is putting all those hard working grave diggers outta work. And those peace-niks are trying to put all those honest weapons manufacturers outta work. Or people who make renewable energy--putting honest wood choppers and coal miners outta work. Auto-mobile putting horses outta work. Soy puttin' cows outta work. All that evil technology, 'n 'lectricity, putting everybody outta work! Gawd 'fobid we fix cancer! All them cancer dawkters outta work! Where's that moonshine? Inbreds are so funny. -I- On Tue, 2009-03-10 at 19:36 -0700, dave jackson wrote: > G'day Tlugers, > -guess the following story may give some of us second thoughts on singing praises of Linux to all& sundry... > cheers, > dave > > ComputerBob says: > Ken is a guy who really cares about people. > And their freedom. > He runs a charity that provides computers to disadvantaged children... > http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 06:01:16 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:01:16 -1200 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0903111452l7ec118a8wd2496f3eafeaefd6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <92ee967a0903112301k590ccad7w99e077787954026b@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 4:07 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: William Muriithi > > | ? Most of those american cars are mainly build in south > | America and other countries where labour is cheap. > > I only agree with part of what you said. ?This part seems particularly > odd. ?Unless you meant "the Southern US" instead of "south America". Mexico, Canada and China with profits going who-knows-where: The "buy American" campaign is just a lot of stupid advertising. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 11:07:25 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:07:25 -0400 Subject: wierd firefox issue w/ nytimes.com In-Reply-To: <20090225031839.GA20390-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <1235501569.7752.6797.camel@localhost> <49A44C2D.3070209@ualberta.ca> <1235527318.7752.8169.camel@localhost> <20090225031839.GA20390@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1236856045.10051.43.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2009-02-24 at 22:18 -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 09:01:58PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > >well, this did work. the culprit is content-prefs.sqlite, which i guess > >stores site-specific preferences which somehow get automatically set > >when you visit the site. I'd really like to be able to just remove the > >preferences for nytimes.com, but there's no obvious interface to the > >database from within firefox, and i'm not familiar enough with sqlite to > >feel comfortable just deleting an entry -- though i guess i probably > >could do that and try. > > I see that you have solved your problem, but if anyone feels like > exploring an sqlite database, like the one bundled with Firefox, there > is a Firefox plugin for managing sqlite databases. It's a handy tool > when you are dealing with a database you don't yet know. mark and william, missed these emails, but thanks for the pointers and will explore the firefox bug tracker and forums to make sure the solution is out there. will also get the sqlite plugin. matt -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 11:27:11 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:27:11 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0903111452l7ec118a8wd2496f3eafeaefd6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49B8F18F.9000900@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: William Muriithi > > | Most of those american cars are mainly build in south > | America and other countries where labour is cheap. > > I only agree with part of what you said. This part seems particularly > odd. Unless you meant "the Southern US" instead of "south America". > Close enough. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 14:56:05 2009 From: erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Erik (Caneris)) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:56:05 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in canada (preferably) In-Reply-To: <49B87374.8010600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3cb765320903100611j305dd5c2va3fca7f235fdf74a@mail.gmail.com> ,<49B6DC61.5020407@rogers.com> ,<49B87374.8010600@rogers.com> Message-ID: James wrote: > Forgot to mention. The reason it's a good "colo" building is that it > was built as a telecom building, with reinforced floors to take the > weight of all that equipment, risers for cables etc. There's > also a lot > of fibre running there now for connecting to the various telecom > companies etc. > Indeed...it is a great building owing much success to its history. For us it was an obvious choice to have our small POP for the access/connectivity and hosting/colocation solutions there largely because our partners and everyone else are there. It's actually one of three sites where we currently have our gear, though we're in the process of consolidating more into the 151 location. Regards, Erik -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 21:34:52 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:34:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0903112301k590ccad7w99e077787954026b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0903111452l7ec118a8wd2496f3eafeaefd6@mail.gmail.com> <92ee967a0903112301k590ccad7w99e077787954026b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Mike Kallies | On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 4:07 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > | From: William Muriithi | > | > | ? Most of those american cars are mainly build in south | > | America and other countries where labour is cheap. | > | > I only agree with part of what you said. ?This part seems particularly | > odd. ?Unless you meant "the Southern US" instead of "south America". | | Mexico, Canada and China with profits going who-knows-where: | | Two years old. Notice that it says Chrysler is German-owned. But apparently profits are non-existant now so they aren't going anywhere. Accounting for sourcing is a mess. There's this concept "value for duty", for example. That's how come apple juice from Chinese concentrate can say "Made in Canada". That's how come the Canadian Revenue Agency claims Chrysler is offside to the tune of $1,000,000,000. Chrysler (yesterday) demanded that the government drop that claim as one precondition among several or they would stop manufacturing in Canada. http://business.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090311.wchryslerCanada0311/BNStory/Business/home | The "buy American" campaign is just a lot of stupid advertising. We wish. It appears to be creating a lot of mischief. US Infrastructure bills are apparently demanding US-origin iron, steel, and other manufactured goods. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090311.RBUYAMERICAN11/TPStory/?query=steel+bill From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 21:59:34 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: gtalug.org is dead? Message-ID: Sorry if this is a known issue. But apparently gtalug.org addreses do not point to anywhere? I noticed this sometime ago but just get to e-mail this now. [arifsaha at mycomp arifsaha]$ host gtalug.org SLEDZ.HEINOUS.ORG Using domain server: Name: SLEDZ.HEINOUS.ORG Address: 192.139.81.209#53 Aliases: [arifsaha at mycomp arifsaha]$ host gtalug.org SAUERKRAUT.HEINOUS.ORG Using domain server: Name: SAUERKRAUT.HEINOUS.ORG Address: 212.13.194.143#53 Aliases: [arifsaha at mycomp arifsaha]$ host www.gtalug.org SLEDZ.HEINOUS.ORG Using domain server: Name: SLEDZ.HEINOUS.ORG Address: 192.139.81.209#53 Aliases: [arifsaha at mycomp arifsaha]$ host www.gtalug.org SAUERKRAUT.HEINOUS.ORG Using domain server: Name: SAUERKRAUT.HEINOUS.ORG Address: 212.13.194.143#53 Aliases: -- (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 22:29:36 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:29:36 -0400 Subject: gtalug.org is dead? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3/12/09, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Sorry if this is a known issue. But apparently gtalug.org > addreses do not point to anywhere? I noticed this sometime ago > but just get to e-mail this now. Yes, this is a known issue, and it is one I am told it being worked on. Colin McGregor > [arifsaha at mycomp arifsaha]$ host gtalug.org SLEDZ.HEINOUS.ORG > Using domain server: > Name: SLEDZ.HEINOUS.ORG > Address: 192.139.81.209#53 > Aliases: > > [arifsaha at mycomp arifsaha]$ host gtalug.org SAUERKRAUT.HEINOUS.ORG > Using domain server: > Name: SAUERKRAUT.HEINOUS.ORG > Address: 212.13.194.143#53 > Aliases: > > [arifsaha at mycomp arifsaha]$ host www.gtalug.org SLEDZ.HEINOUS.ORG > Using domain server: > Name: SLEDZ.HEINOUS.ORG > Address: 192.139.81.209#53 > Aliases: > > [arifsaha at mycomp arifsaha]$ host www.gtalug.org SAUERKRAUT.HEINOUS.ORG > Using domain server: > Name: SAUERKRAUT.HEINOUS.ORG > Address: 212.13.194.143#53 > Aliases: > > > -- > (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo > _____ _____ _____ _____ > /____ /____/ /____/ /____ > _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 12 23:43:05 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:43:05 -0400 Subject: gtalug.org is dead? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49B99E09.6040304@alteeve.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > On 3/12/09, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: >> Sorry if this is a known issue. But apparently gtalug.org >> addreses do not point to anywhere? I noticed this sometime ago >> but just get to e-mail this now. > > Yes, this is a known issue, and it is one I am told it being worked on. > > Colin McGregor I saw the DNS admin in the office yesterday, and she said she was working on her server. So "real soon now". Maybe. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 13 01:33:53 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:33:53 -0400 Subject: dedicated hosting in canada (preferably) In-Reply-To: References: <3cb765320903100611j305dd5c2va3fca7f235fdf74a@mail.gmail.com> ,<49B6DC61.5020407@rogers.com> ,<49B87374.8010600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49B9B801.3030400@rogers.com> Erik (Caneris) wrote: > James wrote: > >> Forgot to mention. The reason it's a good "colo" building is that it >> was built as a telecom building, with reinforced floors to take the >> weight of all that equipment, risers for cables etc. There's >> also a lot >> of fibre running there now for connecting to the various telecom >> companies etc. >> >> > > Indeed...it is a great building owing much success to its history. For us it was an obvious choice to have our small POP for the access/connectivity and hosting/colocation solutions there largely because our partners and everyone else are there. It's actually one of three sites where we currently have our gear, though we're in the process of consolidating more into the 151 location. > > One thing you may not be aware of, is the upper retail floor, where the shops & restaurants are located was built strong enough to drive large trucks onto. There used to be a truck ramp off Front St., near the entrance to that area. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 13 02:05:32 2009 From: redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (dave jackson) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux Message-ID: <547678.71273.qm@web31308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Re: [TLUG]: OT: Assaulted Over Linux 'Inbreds are so funny.' Ya got that right,mate,viz: Top Gear - Rednecks in Alabama USA - American road trip pt 2 - BBC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2syY12OPkwI on Thursday, March 12, 2009 "I. Khider" wrote: This is sorta like that damn guy who invented anti-biotics. Now that people are living longer, it is putting all those hard working grave diggers outta work. And those peace-niks are trying to put all those honest weapons manufacturers outta work. Or people who make renewable energy--putting honest wood choppers and coal miners outta work. Auto-mobile putting horses outta work. Soy puttin' cows outta work. All that evil technology, 'n 'lectricity, putting everybody outta work! Gawd 'fobid we fix cancer! All them cancer dawkters outta work! Where's that moonshine? Inbreds are so funny. -I- On Tue, 2009-03-10 at 19:36 -0700, dave jackson wrote: > G'day Tlugers, > -guess the following story may give some of us second thoughts on singing praises of Linux to all& sundry... > cheers, > dave > > ComputerBob says: > Ken is a guy who really cares about people. > And their freedom. > He runs a charity that provides computers to disadvantaged children... > http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 13 02:47:51 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:47:51 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <547678.71273.qm-j5JW32t3wmqvuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <547678.71273.qm@web31308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:05 PM, dave jackson wrote: > > Re: [TLUG]: OT: Assaulted Over Linux > > 'Inbreds are so funny.' > Ya got that right,mate,viz: > Top Gear - Rednecks in Alabama USA - American road trip pt 2 - BBC > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2syY12OPkwI > I wouldn't set foot in that country if you paid me. What a bunch of animals. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 13 19:28:51 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:28:51 -0400 Subject: OT: Free Laser Printer Message-ID: <49BAB3F3.8050405@ualberta.ca> Hello, I have a Samsung ML-1210 [1,2] along with a parallel cable that I no longer need because I've replaced with a newer printer (Canon PIXMA MP520). Works well under cups. It still works quite well except for one nuissance: if the paper tray is too full the printer has a problem getting the top piece off the tray, so you have to make sure you only have 3-5 sheets in there at a time. Also, it would need a new toner. I live in Etobicoke near Bloor/Inslington. Marc [1] http://www.refreshcartridges.co.uk/images/Samsung ML-1210.jpg [2] http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Samsung-ML-1210 -- C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows your whole leg off. -- Bjarne Stroustrup -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 13 20:01:11 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:01:11 -0400 Subject: Is the TLUG list archived? Message-ID: <49BABB87.8020302@telly.org> Hi there, A number of other mailing lists to which I've subscribed have archives, which means that I can delete their mail from my own mailbox. I'd like to be able to refer to older TLUG discussions without having to archive all the TLUG stuff myself. But it's unclear whether the current TLUG mail is being archived and -- if so -- how to get to it. If it's not... perhaps it might be better transferred to management software that can automatically provide this facility. So... what's the situation? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 13 20:08:31 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:08:31 -0400 Subject: Is the TLUG list archived? In-Reply-To: <49BABB87.8020302-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <49BABB87.8020302@telly.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0903131308y2cd3595arefd8cf49be2a3612@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Hi there, > > A number of other mailing lists to which I've subscribed have archives, > which means that I can delete their mail from my own mailbox. > > I'd like to be able to refer to older TLUG discussions without having to > archive all the TLUG stuff myself. But it's unclear whether the current > TLUG mail is being archived and -- if so -- how to get to it. If it's > not... perhaps it might be better transferred to management software > that can automatically provi this facility. > > So... what's the situation? TLUG discussions are archived on Gmane here: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 13 21:37:12 2009 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:37:12 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: References: <547678.71273.qm@web31308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49BAD208.70009@golden.net> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:05 PM, dave jackson > wrote: > >> Re: [TLUG]: OT: Assaulted Over Linux >> >> 'Inbreds are so funny.' >> Ya got that right,mate,viz: >> Top Gear - Rednecks in Alabama USA - American road trip pt 2 - BBC >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2syY12OPkwI >> >> > > I wouldn't set foot in that country if you paid me. What a bunch of animals. > There are many beautiful parts of the United States where the people are extremely friendly don't let this one sided video sway you. Imagine doing something like this in Britain. ie Down with the Queen or Football Sucks! You would get a similar results in some parts. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 13 21:57:26 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:57:26 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <49BAD208.70009-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <547678.71273.qm@web31308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49BAD208.70009@golden.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 5:37 PM, John Myshrall wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> >> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:05 PM, dave jackson >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Re: [TLUG]: OT: Assaulted Over Linux >>> >>> 'Inbreds are so funny.' >>> Ya got that right,mate,viz: >>> Top Gear - Rednecks in Alabama USA - American road trip pt 2 - BBC >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2syY12OPkwI >>> >>> >> >> I wouldn't set foot in that country if you paid me. What a bunch of >> animals. >> > > There are many beautiful parts of the United States where the people are > extremely friendly don't let this one sided video sway you. > Imagine doing something like this in Britain. ie Down with the Queen or > Football Sucks! You would get a similar results in some parts. > John > not so sure about that. Though you'll find ignorance everywhere, the Brits have a much better sense of humour. For evidence, check out The Annoying Devil on Youtube ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 13 22:02:31 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:02:31 -0400 Subject: The Linux Game Tome In-Reply-To: <49B72288.4000901-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49B72288.4000901@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20090313220231.GT12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 10:31:36PM -0400, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I was asked to post this web site after mentioning it at the meeting: > > http://www.happypenguin.org/ > > There are lots of Linux and open source games out there.. most are not > mature or barely functional; note the ability to sort by rating. :) The > list of good ones is starting to grow quite large now, though... > > My current favorites are: Rocks n' Diamonds, Wormux, and GCCG (mtg). If > anybody is ever up for playing multi-player by network, let me know! Well certainly a few great games in the top 30 ratings on that site that I like are: bzflag (way fun). the ur-quan masters (The description is wrong, this is star control II, and it was originally a PC game before becoming a 3DO title). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 13 22:29:00 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:29:00 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0903111452l7ec118a8wd2496f3eafeaefd6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090313222859.GU12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:51:32PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Kelly, > > > > > > > > > > >> "Still have a job? Then keep driving foreign." > > > > It amazes me that people (in both Canada and the US), would rather > > blame my intelligent purchasing decisions over somebody else's poor > > business decisions. > > > Actually, those stickers should never make you guilty. They are just funny > and indicate the driver in front of you either have direct interest with the > american car manufactures NOT their country or he/she is so out of touch > with reality its not even funny. I think buying american car does not help > in job saving much. Most of those american cars are mainly build in south > America and other countries where labour is cheap. On the hand, foreign cars > manufacturers do have a good percentage of their cars in North America > manufactured in North America. > > In fact, this is one case where Bush got it right when he said its throwing > good money after bad money. And however sad it is when someone looses a job, > this is one case where these guys made their bed and should go ahead and > sleep on it. Heck, they lobbied the government when California attempted to > enforce some efficiency, exactly what the Japanese has been doing for decade > and how is the japanese manufacturers, healthy. Okay, I take that back, but > at least they are better shape than american mafucturers. So if you look at > the problem from the government perspective, more jobs may actually be saved > by backing the efficient once, saving on oil imports and other externalities > related to inefficient cars. > > Now, why is it a futile thing to attempt saving american car manufacturers. > I have three good reasons. > > 1) Time: If you look closely, car manufacturing is more like writing an > operating system, a very evolutionary activity. You build on your previous > position. If you have a lousy product, it make it all that hard to ever > catch up with those who have perfected the art. If you doubt the > evolutionary nature of the industry, look at Toyota tudra. Now I do not own > one, but if you google for a couple of minutes on that brand, you will > notice it has had a lot of reliability problems. That despite it was made by > Toyota which is synonymous with reliability and over a billion dollars of > investment. They will never catch up of ford for have perfected that sector. Sure they will, if Ford does the typical thing that a lot of north american companies have done, which is to decide they are the best and stop improving. It seems Ford is trying to keep improving their products though, so perhaps the F150 will continue to sell in silly numbers to people I don't understand. > 2) Oil: Most people have concluded the recent $146 a barrel price what a > market fuck ups. I believe it was purely driven by business fundamentals. > Yeah the price of oil is now selling at $47 a barrel, but when you factor > how far the world growth has fallen, $47 a barrel start looking way too > expensive. Seriously, mid last year, the world growth rate was over 5%. > Today, they are projecting it at -0.5%. That again is GLOBAL growth. If you > were to convert that percentage change to dollars, it would be an imaginable > number. Add the fact that we are not expected to see the end of this until > 2010 if we are lucky. And yet, despite all that gloom, oil can hold at that > price. I was expecting it to drop to $10. What this imply is when we finally > turn the corner and start seeing some growth, you can expect a price of > $146 and above. Its that or we stay in recession for ever. Yep pretty much. Strangely I don't mind. Perhaps higher oil prices will make higher fuel prices and finally make people start to make sensible decisions. > 3) Cultural change: North American society has been one very lucky > community. They were in position to afford a living standard most of us only > dream of. Then came globalization. Note, I am not against globalization, but > the way it was implemented was seriously baised toward the rich. A story for > another day, but if you are interested, read the Roaring nineties by Joseph > Stiglitz. That has destroyed the middle class for good, the major buyers for > American cars. The rich tend to buy Lamborghini, Ferari, BMW etc. Those cars > that are stylish and good image. Since then, the house industry was the the > single main factor making middle class family feel rich. That is now gone > and with it the purchasing power of most americans. The American cars do not > sell well outside America. Reason, any car with power above 2 litre engine > is considered a guzzlers to most people outside america. The chinese do tend > to love huge cars, but that market is cornered by chinese domestic > manufactures with the help of Chinese government. I can not blame them, we > are doing the same here. The american car companies can't complain about others not buying their cars if they won't make cars that others want. The japanese have no problem making cars that north america will buy but which they would never be able to sell in Japan. They understand the idea of giving the customer what they want. > With this in mind, I tend to think supporting American cars is not worth it. > There is just way too much head wind for very weak companies. True, they may > survive, but tax payers are going to pay way to much for that to happen. If > the government chicken and decide to back them well and good, but they > should inform us of the full price we should be expected to foot. Not try to > play Iraq game again - oh, it will just cost us $50 billion and then turn > around an pull a 3 trillion bill. Read The three trillion dollar war by > Stinglitz if you want to find more. > > Disclaimer, I may be seriously wrong here, as I can not claim to be > objective. I do hate the guzzlers and that mean a not too balanced > analysis. That said, I look forward to see if time will validate my > observation Sounds pretty good to me. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 13 22:30:00 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:30:00 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49B738FC.7030208@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0903111452l7ec118a8wd2496f3eafeaefd6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090313223000.GV12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:07:41AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: William Muriithi > > | Most of those american cars are mainly build in south > | America and other countries where labour is cheap. > > I only agree with part of what you said. This part seems particularly > odd. Unless you meant "the Southern US" instead of "south America". I know people that bought a ford escort, which was made in brazil, so perhaps that is exactly what was meant. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 13 22:33:16 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:33:16 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <1236848526.3848.12.camel-egX5H+F/hXEu8BFL9Asa/WHqWbEk1Anr@public.gmane.org> References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1236848526.3848.12.camel@khider.homenetwork> Message-ID: <20090313223316.GW12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 05:02:06AM -0400, I. Khider wrote: > This is sorta like that damn guy who invented anti-biotics. Now that > people are living longer, it is putting all those hard working grave > diggers outta work. And those peace-niks are trying to put all those > honest weapons manufacturers outta work. Or people who make renewable > energy--putting honest wood choppers and coal miners outta work. > Auto-mobile putting horses outta work. Soy puttin' cows outta work. All > that evil technology, 'n 'lectricity, putting everybody outta work! Gawd > 'fobid we fix cancer! All them cancer dawkters outta work! Where's that > moonshine? Soy isn't putting cows out of work. You need lots of organic soy to feed to cows to make organic cows for organic beef. At least that's what some of them do. Others apparently feed grass to their cows, which makes a lot more sense to me, but I suppose if you are in a hurry there is more protein in soy than grass. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 02:22:15 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:22:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <289066.35428.qm-JuoXZumChVGvuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 3/10/09, dave jackson wrote: > G'day Tlugers, > -guess the following story may give some of us second thoughts on singing > praises of Linux to all& sundry... > cheers, > dave > > ComputerBob says: > Ken is a guy who really cares about people. > And their freedom. > He runs a charity that provides computers to disadvantaged children... > http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html Not the first time I have heard about people in Texas getting strange about the "wrong" OS, though in this case it is an OS mascot that caused grief... Before I get to that, everyone should be aware of FreeBSD, a free Unix like OS that has formed the basis behind Macintosh OS-X. The BSD mascot is known as "Beastie", the story of which can be seen here (along with links to "Beastie" images): http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/daemon.html The story of what happened to Linda Branagan when she wore a Beastie T-shirt to a Texas restaurant can be seen here: http://www.rmitz.org/freebsd.daemon.html Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 11:23:00 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:23:00 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49BB9394.8030007@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > > The story of what happened to Linda Branagan when she wore a Beastie > T-shirt to a Texas restaurant can be seen here: > > http://www.rmitz.org/freebsd.daemon.html > > > Unfortunately, there are lots of "Good Christians" and others that actually believe that sort of stupidity. This one is almost as bad as the stink raised in Iran (IIRC) about that teddy bear named "Mohammed", a while back. It's amazing what a delusion, such as religious belief, can do. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 12:32:49 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:32:49 -0400 Subject: April / May topics and presenters Message-ID: <1237033969.27156.98.camel@leon> Hi All, Based on the survey and discussion at recent meetings we're seeking presenters for many topics. These were the top topic requests for this quarter. GIMP AD / Samba / Kerberos / OpenLDAP Comparison of CMSes as lightning talks Backups How to contribute to F/LOSS projects (My first patch) We have an unconfirmed potential presenter for GIMP in June. [Giles. Are you out there?] So who wants to pick up the ball on a topic for April or May? Other topics are welcome as well. Putting on a good show from one of the most requested topics is sure to get you a standing ovation. Or a nice firm handshake. Feel free to throw a friend under the bus, I mean "recommend someone not on this list." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 13:14:52 2009 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:14:52 -0400 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: References: <547678.71273.qm@web31308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49BAD208.70009@golden.net> Message-ID: <49BBADCC.60801@sympatico.ca> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 5:37 PM, John Myshrall wrote: > >> Thomas Milne wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:05 PM, dave jackson >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Re: [TLUG]: OT: Assaulted Over Linux >>>> >>>> 'Inbreds are so funny.' >>>> Ya got that right,mate,viz: >>>> Top Gear - Rednecks in Alabama USA - American road trip pt 2 - BBC >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2syY12OPkwI >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> I wouldn't set foot in that country if you paid me. What a bunch of >>> animals. >>> >>> >> There are many beautiful parts of the United States where the people are >> extremely friendly don't let this one sided video sway you. >> Imagine doing something like this in Britain. ie Down with the Queen or >> Football Sucks! You would get a similar results in some parts. >> John >> >> > > not so sure about that. Though you'll find ignorance everywhere, the > Brits have a much better sense of humour. For evidence, check out The > Annoying Devil on Youtube ;) Wear the wrong coloured shirt in the wrong part of town and see how you fare with Brit humour. Or go to a football match in a different part of the country and let them hear your accent. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 14:43:36 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <49BBADCC.60801-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <547678.71273.qm@web31308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49BAD208.70009@golden.net> <49BBADCC.60801@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 2009, John Moniz wrote: > Wear the wrong coloured shirt in the wrong part of town and see how you fare > with Brit humour. Or go to a football match in a different part of the > country and let them hear your accent. Ignorance and xenophobia are unfortunately widespread human traits :( Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 15:39:32 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:39:32 -0400 Subject: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP Message-ID: <1237045172.27156.121.camel@leon> Hi All, I'm pleased to confirm that Giles Orr has generously offered to share his experience with The GIMP (The GNU Image Manipulation Program) with us at the June 2009 TLUG meeting. Abstract: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Meetings:2009-06 The GIMP was the most requested topic in our recent poll and is eagerly anticipated based on discussion at recent meetings. Thank you, Giles. See you there, everybody. Best regards, Richard -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 15:48:43 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:48:43 -0400 Subject: April / May topics and presenters In-Reply-To: <1237033969.27156.98.camel@leon> References: <1237033969.27156.98.camel@leon> Message-ID: <49BBD1DB.20601@ualberta.ca> Richard Weait wrote: > How to contribute to F/LOSS projects (My first patch) > I offered to cover this topic on the condition that there's nobody more suited than me, I seriously doubt -- I have a good deal of programming experience but have only contributed to open source a few times, and they were all minor contributions. The topic is very open-ended. Is there anything in particular people would like to learn about regarding this topic? If not, the broad plan would be: - Overview (some stats, some general pointers, web sites) - Quick look at tools (make, svn, etc.) - Basics of C/C++ programming. Using gdb. - Work out a real-time example - Submitting the patch The amount of time I spend on basic stuff depends on how much programming experience I can assume from the crowd -- what should I expect? > We have an unconfirmed potential presenter for GIMP in June. [Giles. > Are you out there?] > > So who wants to pick up the ball on a topic for April or May? Other > topics are welcome as well. Putting on a good show from one of the most > requested topics is sure to get you a standing ovation. Or a nice firm > handshake. I can't do April but can probably do May. Marc -- The only real valuable thing is intuition. -- Albert Einstein -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 15:49:15 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP In-Reply-To: <1237045172.27156.121.camel@leon> References: <1237045172.27156.121.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 2009, Richard Weait wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm pleased to confirm that Giles Orr has generously offered to share > his experience with The GIMP (The GNU Image Manipulation Program) with > us at the June 2009 TLUG meeting. > > Abstract: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Meetings:2009-06 > > The GIMP was the most requested topic in our recent poll and is eagerly > anticipated based on discussion at recent meetings. > > Thank you, Giles. See you there, everybody. on a (somewhat) related note, i was playing with gimp to design some high-res (WUXGA) per-pixel test patterns, but i clearly didn't want to have to manually set pixels using paint or pencil or something similar, and someone pointed me here: http://pythonware.com/library/index.htm where you can grab a python-based imaging library to quickly create image files. for instance, here's a pgm that creates a WUXGA pattern with alternating pixel columns of red, green, blue and white: ############################################ #!/usr/bin/python import Image, ImageDraw import sys columns = 1920 rows = 1200 im = Image.new("RGB", (columns, rows)) draw = ImageDraw.Draw(im) print im.size[0] # columns print im.size[1] # rows c = 0 while c < columns: draw.line((c, 0, c, rows-1), fill=(255, 0, 0)) # red draw.line((c+1, 0, c+1, rows-1), fill=(0, 255, 0)) # green draw.line((c+2, 0, c+2, rows-1), fill=(0, 0, 255)) # blue draw.line((c+3, 0, c+3, rows-1), fill=(255, 255, 255)) # white c += 4 # im.show() im.save("eg1.png", "PNG") ############################################## are there any other comparable products for whipping up cool image files as above? rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevjmorris-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 16:28:15 2009 From: kevjmorris-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Kevin Morris) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 12:28:15 -0400 Subject: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP In-Reply-To: <1237045172.27156.121.camel@leon> References: <1237045172.27156.121.camel@leon> Message-ID: Hi All, Thanks Giles for taking on this presentation. Based on the information about what is being presented can I make a request/suggestion; will it be possible to cover a fair amount on original image creation or have another follow-up session on it. Personally, I would like to learn more about original image creation and tap into my creative side. If Giles has the time and is willing. Thanks Cheers Kevin > Subject: [TLUG]: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP > From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:39:32 -0400 > > Hi All, > > I'm pleased to confirm that Giles Orr has generously offered to share > his experience with The GIMP (The GNU Image Manipulation Program) with > us at the June 2009 TLUG meeting. > > Abstract: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Meetings:2009-06 > > The GIMP was the most requested topic in our recent poll and is eagerly > anticipated based on discussion at recent meetings. > > Thank you, Giles. See you there, everybody. > > Best regards, > Richard > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Share photos with friends on Windows Live Messenger http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650734 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 17:10:02 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: April / May topics and presenters In-Reply-To: <1237033969.27156.98.camel@leon> References: <1237033969.27156.98.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Mar 2009, Richard Weait wrote: > Backups I offered to do the talk on backups, so I'll put my hand up for the May talk. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 19:27:19 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:27:19 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation Message-ID: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> I'm looking for an IDE that works in Linux that has good syntax highlighting. Also I'm looking for two (third is not as important) specific features I've not found together yet: 1. Tabs for multiple files 2. Code indexing (highlight a function or class name and jump to its implementation) 3. Refactoring (change all instances of variable or function name in all source files) Eclipse (with the add-on for C++) does some but the indexing is not very well-implemented, last I tried it hardly worked. Also, Eclipse is really slow, so I was hoping to find a native client. KDevelop is missing the indexing, maybe also the refactoring. I use gvim right now but it obviously doesn't have the refactoring and indexing since it's not an IDE.. but if vim plugins existed for these then that would be great. Marc -- The only real valuable thing is intuition. -- Albert Einstein -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 20:06:44 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:06:44 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <49BC0517.4080504-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <7c50d3570903141306q74ba3b85v2a6374ccef950418@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 15:27, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I'm looking for an IDE that works in Linux that has good syntax > highlighting. > > Also I'm looking for two (third is not as important) specific features I've > not found together yet: > > 1. Tabs for multiple files > > 2. Code indexing (highlight a function or class name and jump to its > implementation) > > 3. Refactoring (change all instances of variable or function name in all > source files) > > Eclipse (with the add-on for C++) does some but the indexing is not very > well-implemented, last I tried it hardly worked. Also, Eclipse is really > slow, so I was hoping to find a native client. KDevelop is missing the > indexing, maybe also the refactoring. > > I use gvim right now but it obviously doesn't have the refactoring and > indexing since it's not an IDE.. but if vim plugins existed for these then > that would be great. > > Marc Marc, Check out Komodo IDE by ActiveState: http://www.activestate.com/komodo/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 20:08:14 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:08:14 -0700 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <49BC0517.4080504-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420903141308o2a283979qe85ab2e712038a19@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I'm looking for an IDE that works in Linux that has good syntax > highlighting. > > Also I'm looking for two (third is not as important) specific features I've > not found together yet: > > 1. Tabs for multiple files > > 2. Code indexing (highlight a function or class name and jump to its > implementation) > > 3. Refactoring (change all instances of variable or function name in all > source files) > > Eclipse (with the add-on for C++) does some but the indexing is not very > well-implemented, last I tried it hardly worked. Also, Eclipse is really > slow, so I was hoping to find a native client. KDevelop is missing the > indexing, maybe also the refactoring. > > I use gvim right now but it obviously doesn't have the refactoring and > indexing since it's not an IDE.. but if vim plugins existed for these then > that would be great. I've only ever used Eclipse for Java development and I find it does all three of those things spectacularly well. It's too bad the C++ plug-in doesn't match the Java one. Anyway, Eclipse has some competitors that may or may not support C++ development. You might want to try NetBeans, an open source tool from Sun that works similarly to Eclipse and so might have a C++ environment available. The other big tool I've heard of is IntelliJ, but I don't know if it does anything besides Java. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 20:35:54 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:35:54 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570903141306q74ba3b85v2a6374ccef950418-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> <7c50d3570903141306q74ba3b85v2a6374ccef950418@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49BC152A.5010109@ualberta.ca> Michael Lauzon wrote: > > Check out Komodo IDE by ActiveState: > > http://www.activestate.com/komodo/ > Michael, After using it for 5-10 minutes it seems to be run quite well with good performance. I'm used to the Java IDEs which are painfully slow. Do you know if "Go to Definition" works for C++ code? It's greyed out for me no matter what I do. Thanks anyway, Marc -- The only real valuable thing is intuition. -- Albert Einstein -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 20:37:24 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:37:24 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <49BC0517.4080504-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20090314163724.5cc78c3a.tleslie@tcn.net> The "power user" IDE is slick edit, i dont like paying for a IDE, but i downloaded slick 3-4 years ago, just to try free 30 day fully func., demo, and there was no way i was ever going to do with out it after that. it does all you mention below and a lot more, it prides itself on being the fastest by a mile IDE and it is a IDE for just about every known language of current popularity. does html and xml format/editing too. it has vim and emacs direct support, and a scripting language that is like C macros, support for version control like svn, and other, the only thing it doesnt do is it "calls out" the debugger of your environment, it has no knowledge of it in particular, however for very popular one, i think it works well. I use it for html, xml editing, as well as c# c c++ you can go for a 30 day demo, and you have nothing to lose, if you are totally set against paying for software, then that limits your options, however, slick will be about 300$, and say a 150$ upgrade cost on average every 2 years, but lately their new features for version upgrades havnt been compelling enough to upgrade, as its just so good as it is now. So say 600$ is you likely shell out over 10 year time frame with slick, if you code alot, it might amount to 0.005 $ per hour of use, but it probably makes you 5-10% more efficient, (so just drink 10% less coffee while programming, and it will easily pay for itself over the years, with just your coffee savings :) ) so it money in the bank. For me , i use a dual screen 30" monitor type set up, and this works amazing over a huge desktop. It is second to none in the power user category of IDE. Actually with its vim/emacs, and back end scripting ability, there is nothing it can't do, but of course you have to be a power user to enhance it to its full capabilities. It also has a plugin to eclipse. For me the speed and the vim support make it a deal closer. -tl On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:27:19 -0400 Marc Lanctot wrote: > I'm looking for an IDE that works in Linux that has good syntax > highlighting. > > Also I'm looking for two (third is not as important) specific features > I've not found together yet: > > 1. Tabs for multiple files > > 2. Code indexing (highlight a function or class name and jump to its > implementation) > > 3. Refactoring (change all instances of variable or function name in all > source files) > > Eclipse (with the add-on for C++) does some but the indexing is not very > well-implemented, last I tried it hardly worked. Also, Eclipse is really > slow, so I was hoping to find a native client. KDevelop is missing the > indexing, maybe also the refactoring. > > I use gvim right now but it obviously doesn't have the refactoring and > indexing since it's not an IDE.. but if vim plugins existed for these > then that would be great. > > Marc > > -- > The only real valuable thing is intuition. > -- Albert Einstein > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 21:09:01 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:09:01 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <20090314163724.5cc78c3a.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> <20090314163724.5cc78c3a.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <49BC1CED.8080208@ualberta.ca> ted leslie wrote: > The "power user" IDE is slick edit, 'Wow' is all I can say. Slickedit is blazingly fast, and the x86 build still works on x86_64 so that's great. The feature I was looking for worked right out of the box (it was even in the user tips box when I first started.) I'm not entirely against paying for quality; I like encouraging programmers for making good products when there's no free/open-source alternative. So I'm considering buying it.. BUT.. I work from several different locations (at least 3) and I would not like to have to buy 3 licenses just for that. Do you know if one license will allow me to do that, ie. work from separate locations (not concurrently)? Marc -- The only real valuable thing is intuition. -- Albert Einstein -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 22:00:58 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:00:58 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <49BC0517.4080504-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <49BC291A.90201@dinamis.com> Marc Lanctot wrote: > I'm looking for an IDE that works in Linux that has good syntax > highlighting. You might like KDevelop. It has plug-ins for various languages, including C++. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 22:18:47 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:18:47 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <49BC291A.90201-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> <49BC291A.90201@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <49BC2D47.9090309@ualberta.ca> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Marc Lanctot wrote: >> I'm looking for an IDE that works in Linux that has good syntax >> highlighting. > > You might like KDevelop. It has plug-ins for various languages, > including C++. I mentioned in my original post that I've tried KDevelop (the KDE/C++) and couldn't find what I wanted, but maybe there's a plugin that exists for it? I absolutely need what Eclipse calls 'code indexing', eg. I need to jump to a method or class's definition by just highlighting it somewhere in the code. That and refactoring are the only reasons I'd consider moving to an IDE from just basic editor with tabs for multiple files. Marc -- The only real valuable thing is intuition. -- Albert Einstein -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 14 13:00:36 2009 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:00:36 -0400 Subject: Is the TLUG list archived? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0903131308y2cd3595arefd8cf49be2a3612-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49BABB87.8020302@telly.org> <99a6c38f0903131308y2cd3595arefd8cf49be2a3612@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1237035636.5651.6.camel@cougar-hardy> ? On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 16:08 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: [snip] > > I'd like to be able to refer to older TLUG discussions without having to > > archive all the TLUG stuff myself. But it's unclear whether the current > > TLUG mail is being archived and -- if so -- how to get to it. If it's > > not... perhaps it might be better transferred to management software > > that can automatically provi this facility. At least at the moment, the address , given in the standard footer of each mailing, is AWOL. However, seems to fit the bill. This page does point to the gmane archive. Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 15 00:48:03 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <49BC0517.4080504-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: | From: Marc Lanctot | I'm looking for an IDE that works in Linux that has good syntax highlighting. I don't like syntax highlighting so I've no experience with that. Actually, I don't ilke IDEs, so I have no experience with them. I just use a tiny editor that is a subset of EMACS. Certain commands like compile-it do some of the IDE tasks. And I hate C++. I use C mostly. So you my comments are not really applicable to you. | Also I'm looking for two (third is not as important) specific features I've | not found together yet: | | 1. Tabs for multiple files I don't want to use a mouse. EMACS' multiple buffers would seem to do what you want here, but I'm not sure. xemacs seems to provide tabs for multiple buffers. | 2. Code indexing (highlight a function or class name and jump to its | implementation) EMACS can do that. Even the subset I use can. So can vi and its children. See ctags(1). | 3. Refactoring (change all instances of variable or function name in all | source files) To me, the word "refactoring" means something much more than a simple rename. A simple rename would seem to be easy for most editors (with user assistance to protect against false positive matches). | Eclipse (with the add-on for C++) does some but the indexing is not very | well-implemented, last I tried it hardly worked. Also, Eclipse is really slow, | so I was hoping to find a native client. KDevelop is missing the indexing, | maybe also the refactoring. I'm sad to hear Eclipse is slow. I thought I remembered proponents saying that it wasn't slow (the first thing any skeptic asks about something implemented in Java). | I use gvim right now but it obviously doesn't have the refactoring and | indexing since it's not an IDE.. but if vim plugins existed for these then | that would be great. See ctags(1). Not automatic, but make can handle that kind of task. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 15 00:53:20 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:53:20 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <49BC1CED.8080208-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> <20090314163724.5cc78c3a.tleslie@tcn.net> <49BC1CED.8080208@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20090314205320.34c64156.tleslie@tcn.net> you can run it on as many machines as you like ;) , [i.e. there is no licensing checking, etc, i use it on my main machine, laptop, and cottage machine] but i am sure that would be against their license. but if its just you using it at each location, i am sure they will not track you down and fine you :) i checked out the http://www.activestate.com/komodo/ posted in the thread, it looks very similar to slick, but it seems to have focus on scripting languages. you can't lose "Trying" slick, even re-install it (perhaps) to get another 30 days (as just 30 days might not be enough evaluation time), then when your sure you like it, drop some coin. If you do a lot of scripting, from what I read on their web page, looks like komodo is very cool, but I have no idea how fast it is. the definite only draw back with slick is no native debugging, its just a pass through to the debugger of your environment, i don't use a debugger much, so its not a lose to me. mono-develop is improving, and i expect in about 2 years it will be close enough to slick, that i might be able to make the jump to it. And since its open source, i could add in anything i like, and also script it in c#, and speed wise in 2 years time, even thou its CLI managed runtime, on a octal 3.5Ghz system (or whatever the common system is then) it should be plenty fast, but i will stay with slick until then. just watch out for mono-develop especially if you get into c# in the future. -tl On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:09:01 -0400 Marc Lanctot wrote: > ted leslie wrote: > > The "power user" IDE is slick edit, > > 'Wow' is all I can say. Slickedit is blazingly fast, and the x86 build > still works on x86_64 so that's great. The feature I was looking for > worked right out of the box (it was even in the user tips box when I > first started.) > > I'm not entirely against paying for quality; I like encouraging > programmers for making good products when there's no free/open-source > alternative. > > So I'm considering buying it.. BUT.. I work from several different > locations (at least 3) and I would not like to have to buy 3 licenses > just for that. Do you know if one license will allow me to do that, ie. > work from separate locations (not concurrently)? > > Marc > > -- > The only real valuable thing is intuition. > -- Albert Einstein > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 15 01:07:21 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:07:21 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <49BC152A.5010109-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> <7c50d3570903141306q74ba3b85v2a6374ccef950418@mail.gmail.com> <49BC152A.5010109@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <7c50d3570903141807xd06ac67tf27b4d38e618fb27@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 16:35, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Michael Lauzon wrote: > >> >> Check out Komodo IDE by ActiveState: >> >> http://www.activestate.com/komodo/ >> > > Michael, > > After using it for 5-10 minutes it seems to be run quite well with good > performance. I'm used to the Java IDEs which are painfully slow. > > Do you know if "Go to Definition" works for C++ code? It's greyed out for me > no matter what I do. > > Thanks anyway, > Marc Well, you are using the demo...so I assume if you buy the full version then that option will be enabled. I haven't used Komodo in years and only used it to edit HTML but that was a long time ago. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 15 03:29:12 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:29:12 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <49BC0517.4080504-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0903142029h6dee1ffo90c5d4cc0b40f73b@mail.gmail.com> I've been using "Anjuta" lately while I try to remember all my long-forgotten coding tricks. It does highlighting and has tabs. If there's an error when you compile it'll jump to the module/code in question, but I haven't tried for an in-code function reference. I believe there was a replace-all function which should handle #3 - TJA On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I'm looking for an IDE that works in Linux that has good syntax > highlighting. > > Also I'm looking for two (third is not as important) specific features I've > not found together yet: > > 1. Tabs for multiple files > > 2. Code indexing (highlight a function or class name and jump to its > implementation) > > 3. Refactoring (change all instances of variable or function name in all > source files) > > Eclipse (with the add-on for C++) does some but the indexing is not very > well-implemented, last I tried it hardly worked. Also, Eclipse is really > slow, so I was hoping to find a native client. KDevelop is missing the > indexing, maybe also the refactoring. > > I use gvim right now but it obviously doesn't have the refactoring and > indexing since it's not an IDE.. but if vim plugins existed for these then > that would be great. > > Marc > > -- > The only real valuable thing is intuition. > ?-- Albert Einstein > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 15 04:18:41 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:18:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: gtalug.org is dead? In-Reply-To: <49B99E09.6040304-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49B99E09.6040304@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Mar 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > I saw the DNS admin in the office yesterday, and she said she was working on > her server. So "real soon now". Maybe. :) This has been going on for months. A redelegation would have solved the problem. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 15 20:58:18 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: poll: problems with MTRRs? Message-ID: How many of you have x86 computers with 4G or more of RAM? On many such systems, the MTRRs are set up by the BIOS in a way that conflicts with X. I have this problem in both of my machines with 4G or more of RAM (IBM ThinkPad x61t and HP Pavilion A6245n). Could you run the following command and tell me about your system if if grep prints anything? dmesg | grep -i mtrr You might see things like: mtrr: type mismatch for d0000000,10000000 old: write-back new: write-combining mtrr: no MTRR for d0000000,10000000 found I'd like to know what distro you are running (/etc/issue) and what kernel you are running (/proc/version). I'd like to know what your MTRR's look like. Could you tell me what /proc/mtrr says? I hope to be able to help you if you do find these messages in the dmesg output. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 00:09:48 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:09:48 -0400 Subject: Sound is very quiet after reinstall Message-ID: <20090316000948.GA2984@yam.witteman.ca.witteman.ca> I just reinstalled Debian on my desktop, and everything works, but the sounds is really quiet. I am not sure how to fix this. Things I've tried: looked at 'alsamixer' both Master and PCM are at 100% both headphone and audio output are very quiet No other programs seem to have much effect on increasing the volume. Any thoughts? dmesg: [ 0.000000] Linux version 2.6.26-1-amd64 (Debian 2.6.26-13) (waldi at debian.org) (gcc version 4.1.3 20080704 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.2-24)) #1 SMP Sat Jan 10 17:57:00 UTC 2009 [ 9.871456] hda_codec: Unknown model for ALC883, trying auto-probe from BIOS... lspci -vv 00:10.1 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP51 High Definition Audio (rev a2) Subsystem: Foxconn International, Inc. Device 0ce4 Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx- Status: Cap+ 66MHz+ UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- SERR- Kernel driver in use: HDA Intel Kernel modules: snd-hda-intel Thanks! -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 00:41:31 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:41:31 -0400 Subject: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP In-Reply-To: References: <1237045172.27156.121.camel@leon> Message-ID: <1f13df280903151741o68b81167qa78e48970f8cc571@mail.gmail.com> 2009/3/14 Kevin Morris : >> Subject: [TLUG]: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP >> From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:39:32 -0400 >> >> Hi All, >> >> I'm pleased to confirm that Giles Orr has generously offered to share >> his experience with The GIMP (The GNU Image Manipulation Program) with >> us at the June 2009 TLUG meeting. >> >> Abstract: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Meetings:2009-06 >> >> The GIMP was the most requested topic in our recent poll and is eagerly >> anticipated based on discussion at recent meetings. > Thanks Giles for taking on this presentation. Based on the information about > what is being presented can I make a request/suggestion; will it be possible > to cover a fair amount on original image creation or have another follow-up > session on it. > > Personally, I would like to learn more about original image creation and tap > into my creative side. If Giles has the time and is willing. I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the main interest was in photo editing. I've made many images from scratch with GIMP but I'm definitely better at photo editing. Having said that, I think I could give a passable presentation on original image creation ... so long as you don't mind it leaning more to warps and distorts rather than painting/drawing. I'll definitely show you how to paint, but I'm not too good at it so those aren't the techniques I use the most. So any other preferences one way or the other? Rather than flood the list, how about those who care just email me off-list with a short "photo editing" or "original images" vote please? If folks are happy with my presentation and enough people want a full presentation on the other topic, I guess another presentation is possible - although it sounds like there are topics lined up for quite a few months. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 00:53:54 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:53:54 -0400 Subject: Sound is very quiet after reinstall In-Reply-To: <20090316000948.GA2984-BcIWU8F4Mdi48Ay+lmqAmAebU5vi/s6sLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20090316000948.GA2984@yam.witteman.ca.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <49BDA322.9080100@teksavvy.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I just reinstalled Debian on my desktop, and everything works, but the > sounds is really quiet. I am not sure how to fix this. > > Things I've tried: > > looked at 'alsamixer' > both Master and PCM are at 100% > > both headphone and audio output are very quiet > > No other programs seem to have much effect on increasing the volume. > Any thoughts? > > dmesg: > > [ 0.000000] Linux version 2.6.26-1-amd64 (Debian 2.6.26-13) (waldi-8fiUuRrzOP0dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org) (gcc version 4.1.3 20080704 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.2-24)) #1 SMP Sat Jan 10 17:57:00 UTC 2009 > > > > [ 9.871456] hda_codec: Unknown model for ALC883, trying auto-probe from BIOS... > > lspci -vv > > 00:10.1 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP51 High Definition Audio (rev a2) > Subsystem: Foxconn International, Inc. Device 0ce4 > Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx- > Status: Cap+ 66MHz+ UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- SERR- Latency: 0 (500ns min, 1250ns max) > Interrupt: pin B routed to IRQ 22 > Region 0: Memory at fe024000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K] > Capabilities: > Kernel driver in use: HDA Intel > Kernel modules: snd-hda-intel > > > Thanks! > I'm not sure if it'll help but have you had a look at /usr/sbin/alsaconf ? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 02:21:04 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:21:04 -0400 Subject: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP In-Reply-To: <1f13df280903151741o68b81167qa78e48970f8cc571-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1237045172.27156.121.camel@leon> <1f13df280903151741o68b81167qa78e48970f8cc571@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1237170064.27156.375.camel@leon> On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 20:41 -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > 2009/3/14 Kevin Morris : > >> Subject: [TLUG]: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP > >> The GIMP was the most requested topic in our recent poll and is eagerly > >> anticipated based on discussion at recent meetings. > > > Thanks Giles for taking on this presentation. Based on the information about > > what is being presented can I make a request/suggestion; will it be possible > > to cover a fair amount on original image creation or have another follow-up > > session on it. > > > > Personally, I would like to learn more about original image creation and tap > > into my creative side. If Giles has the time and is willing. > > I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the main interest was in photo > editing. I've made many images from scratch with GIMP but I'm > definitely better at photo editing. Let's keep to the original, "How do I get started with The GIMP" approach and in your comfort-zone, Giles, for your choice of demonstrations. With many new GIMP users after your talk, perhaps one or more will volunteer to take a go at a "Creating / Painting with The GIMP" talk for later. Like any worthwhile topic, you cannot cover everything. Pick one message to deliver, one story to tell, and build your demonstrations around that. Kevin, if you are comfortable creating images with other software (Inkscape perhaps?) maybe you can do a talk on that? Best regards, Richard. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From contact-uc+NVM1kvX9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 09:59:07 2009 From: contact-uc+NVM1kvX9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (I. Khider) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 04:59:07 -0500 Subject: OT: Assaulted Over Linux In-Reply-To: <20090313223316.GW12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <289066.35428.qm@web31305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1236848526.3848.12.camel@khider.homenetwork> <20090313223316.GW12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1237197547.4522.4.camel@khider.homenetwork> I was being tongue-in-cheek. We live in a paradoxical, chaotic world where everything puts everyone out of work, and everything kills everyone...and somehow gives it life again...and then there is my friend, entropy. We have a superior O/S called Linux, and somehow Microsoft still has the power. We do not live in an efficient, orderly world. -I- On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 18:33 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 05:02:06AM -0400, I. Khider wrote: > > This is sorta like that damn guy who invented anti-biotics. Now that > > people are living longer, it is putting all those hard working grave > > diggers outta work. And those peace-niks are trying to put all those > > honest weapons manufacturers outta work. Or people who make renewable > > energy--putting honest wood choppers and coal miners outta work. > > Auto-mobile putting horses outta work. Soy puttin' cows outta work. All > > that evil technology, 'n 'lectricity, putting everybody outta work! Gawd > > 'fobid we fix cancer! All them cancer dawkters outta work! Where's that > > moonshine? > > Soy isn't putting cows out of work. You need lots of organic soy to > feed to cows to make organic cows for organic beef. At least that's > what some of them do. Others apparently feed grass to their cows, which > makes a lot more sense to me, but I suppose if you are in a hurry there > is more protein in soy than grass. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevjmorris-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 14:28:22 2009 From: kevjmorris-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Kevin Morris) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:28:22 -0400 Subject: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP In-Reply-To: <1237170064.27156.375.camel@leon> References: <1237045172.27156.121.camel@leon> <1f13df280903151741o68b81167qa78e48970f8cc571@mail.gmail.com> <1237170064.27156.375.camel@leon> Message-ID: Hi, Looks like most people want the photo editing presentation. That's fine by me, I'm sure that there are things I can learn as well. At a later time if there is an opening for a presentation we can revisit this topic to see if there will be sufficient interest. Richard, unfortunately I don't know how to create images with any software, other than paint (if that counts ;) ), and so my reason for asking. Cheers Kevin > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP > From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:21:04 -0400 > > On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 20:41 -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > > 2009/3/14 Kevin Morris : > > >> Subject: [TLUG]: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP > > > >> The GIMP was the most requested topic in our recent poll and is eagerly > > >> anticipated based on discussion at recent meetings. > > > > > Thanks Giles for taking on this presentation. Based on the information about > > > what is being presented can I make a request/suggestion; will it be possible > > > to cover a fair amount on original image creation or have another follow-up > > > session on it. > > > > > > Personally, I would like to learn more about original image creation and tap > > > into my creative side. If Giles has the time and is willing. > > > > I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the main interest was in photo > > editing. I've made many images from scratch with GIMP but I'm > > definitely better at photo editing. > > Let's keep to the original, "How do I get started with The GIMP" > approach and in your comfort-zone, Giles, for your choice of > demonstrations. With many new GIMP users after your talk, perhaps one > or more will volunteer to take a go at a "Creating / Painting with The > GIMP" talk for later. > > Like any worthwhile topic, you cannot cover everything. Pick one > message to deliver, one story to tell, and build your demonstrations > around that. > > Kevin, if you are comfortable creating images with other software > (Inkscape perhaps?) maybe you can do a talk on that? > > Best regards, > Richard. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Reinvent how you stay in touch with the new Windows Live Messenger. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650731 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 14:31:50 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: poll: problems with MTRRs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <907392.16747.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 3/15/09, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > From: D. Hugh Redelmeier > Subject: [TLUG]: poll: problems with MTRRs? > To: "Toronto Linux Users Group" > Received: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 4:58 PM > How many of you have x86 computers with 4G or more of RAM? > > On many such systems, the MTRRs are set up by the BIOS in a > way that > conflicts with X. > > I have this problem in both of my machines with 4G or more > of RAM (IBM > ThinkPad x61t and HP Pavilion A6245n). > > Could you run the following command and tell me about your > system if > if grep prints anything? > dmesg | grep -i mtrr > > You might see things like: > mtrr: type mismatch for d0000000,10000000 old: write-back > new: write-combining > mtrr: no MTRR for d0000000,10000000 found > > I'd like to know what distro you are running > (/etc/issue) and > what kernel you are running (/proc/version). > > I'd like to know what your MTRR's look like. Could > you tell me what > /proc/mtrr says? > > I hope to be able to help you if you do find these messages > in the > dmesg output. I got a Dell Inpiron 530 with 4Gb RAM. The BIOS sees all the 4Gb and KUbuntu sees only 3Gb of it. I undertood that that was an upper limit for all 32bit OSes. In any case, I am running KUbuntu 7.10 kernel 2.6.22.14-generic and my MTRR line is [ 42.397018] mtrr: no more MTRRs available EK > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 15:18:18 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:18:18 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <49BC0517.4080504-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20090316151818.GX12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 03:27:19PM -0400, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I'm looking for an IDE that works in Linux that has good syntax > highlighting. > > Also I'm looking for two (third is not as important) specific features > I've not found together yet: > > 1. Tabs for multiple files > > 2. Code indexing (highlight a function or class name and jump to its > implementation) > > 3. Refactoring (change all instances of variable or function name in all > source files) > > Eclipse (with the add-on for C++) does some but the indexing is not very > well-implemented, last I tried it hardly worked. Also, Eclipse is really > slow, so I was hoping to find a native client. KDevelop is missing the > indexing, maybe also the refactoring. > > I use gvim right now but it obviously doesn't have the refactoring and > indexing since it's not an IDE.. but if vim plugins existed for these > then that would be great. gvim supports ctags which does the indexing. I suspect vim might even do the search and replace through multiple files, although I have never tried and usually use perl to do that. Can't think of anything I would rather use for development than vim. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 15:28:49 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:28:49 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0903142029h6dee1ffo90c5d4cc0b40f73b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> <3a97ef0903142029h6dee1ffo90c5d4cc0b40f73b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49BE7031.7060906@ualberta.ca> This is a summary response of my experience with the C++ IDEs that were recommended to me, ie. the last few posts from Tyler Aviss, Michael Lauzon, and Ted Leslie. Ted: my apps aren't that big so command-line gdb and valgrind work fine for me. I don't need integrated debugging. Anjuta: Does everything I need. Tyler: it does support Goto Definition Tag by highlighting a function name and right-clicking; there's no hot key for it which is a bit weird but I won't have to do all that often so that's OK. It does not work as well as Slickedit's; in particular when there's a collision between method (ie. two diff subclasses override the same method in the base class) names it won't give you the choice to disambiguate like SE does. Licensed under GPL and is free. It's built on GTK, it's very fast and usable. It has plugins for valgrind and gprof which is a nice. SlickEdit: Does everything I need. Fastest of the three. Best implementation of code indexing. Seems to be built on some older GUI cross-platform lib (Motif?) so it has a bit of an older look/feel -- could be why it's the fastest, though. Not free: license costs 300$. Komodo: Also fast and usable. Doesn't support code indexing for C or C++ as far as I can tell but does for some languages (Perl, Python, and more..). Not free: license costs 300$, but there's a student version which I assume is rebated. Thanks again for all the info! Marc -- Any code of your own that you haven't looked at for six or more months might as well have been written by someone else. -- Eagleson's law -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 15:30:17 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:30:17 -0400 Subject: poll: problems with MTRRs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090316153017.GY12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 04:58:18PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > How many of you have x86 computers with 4G or more of RAM? I have 6GB in my mythtv box (which did cause some initial issues that I worked around using some not so normal methods). > On many such systems, the MTRRs are set up by the BIOS in a way that > conflicts with X. Mine works fine. I have only ever heard of intel boards and a few gigabyte boards gettings this wrong. Of course since I only personally use asus boards and they never appear to have had the mtrr bugs, I can't say much there. > I have this problem in both of my machines with 4G or more of RAM (IBM > ThinkPad x61t and HP Pavilion A6245n). > > Could you run the following command and tell me about your system if > if grep prints anything? > dmesg | grep -i mtrr > > You might see things like: > mtrr: type mismatch for d0000000,10000000 old: write-back new: write-combining > mtrr: no MTRR for d0000000,10000000 found In fact none of the kernels I have looked at have mtrr stuff printed in dmesg anymore. I think they stopped doing that a few years ago. How old is your kernel? > I'd like to know what distro you are running (/etc/issue) and > what kernel you are running (/proc/version). > > I'd like to know what your MTRR's look like. Could you tell me what > /proc/mtrr says? > > I hope to be able to help you if you do find these messages in the > dmesg output. Well certainly newer kernels have tried to deal with some of these bugs, although apparently the real solution is for X to start using PAT rather than MTRR since the 8 entry MTRR is awfully limited given todays ram quantities. Well here is the /proc/mtrr of one box with 8GB ram running Debian Etch at the moment with the 2.6.24 etchnhalf kernel (amd64 of course): reg00: base=0x00000000 ( 0MB), size=2048MB: write-back, count=1 reg01: base=0x80000000 (2048MB), size=1024MB: write-back, count=1 reg02: base=0x100000000 (4096MB), size=4096MB: write-back, count=1 reg03: base=0x200000000 (8192MB), size=8192MB: write-back, count=1 reg04: base=0x400000000 (16384MB), size=16384MB: write-back, count=1 reg05: base=0x800000000 (32768MB), size=32768MB: write-back, count=1 reg06: base=0xd0000000 (3328MB), size= 16MB: write-combining, count=1 Strangely it doesn't appear in dmesg. No idea why. It only has 8GB ram, but seems to have setup a much larger mtrr range. X works fine though. System is an IBM X3650. Here is my mythtv box with 6GB ram on an Asus P5K board (using a P5K-R bios to get AHCI mode on the ICH9 SATA controller which allows 64bit dma rather than the 32bit dma limit in IDE mode): reg00: base=0xd0000000 (3328MB), size= 256MB: uncachable, count=1 reg01: base=0xe0000000 (3584MB), size= 512MB: uncachable, count=1 reg02: base=0x00000000 ( 0MB), size=4096MB: write-back, count=1 reg03: base=0x100000000 (4096MB), size=2048MB: write-back, count=1 reg04: base=0x180000000 (6144MB), size= 512MB: write-back, count=1 reg05: base=0x1a0000000 (6656MB), size= 256MB: write-back, count=1 No problem there either. Running 2.6.26 amd64 kernel with Debian unstable. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 15:30:35 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:30:35 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <20090316151818.GX12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> <20090316151818.GX12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090316153035.GA18574@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 11:18:18AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Can't think of anything I would rather use for development than vim. http://iccf-holland.org/click5.html#oualline -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 15:31:42 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:31:42 -0400 Subject: Sound is very quiet after reinstall In-Reply-To: <20090316000948.GA2984-BcIWU8F4Mdi48Ay+lmqAmAebU5vi/s6sLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20090316000948.GA2984@yam.witteman.ca.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20090316153142.GZ12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 08:09:48PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I just reinstalled Debian on my desktop, and everything works, but the > sounds is really quiet. I am not sure how to fix this. > > Things I've tried: > > looked at 'alsamixer' > both Master and PCM are at 100% > > both headphone and audio output are very quiet > > No other programs seem to have much effect on increasing the volume. > Any thoughts? > > dmesg: > > [ 0.000000] Linux version 2.6.26-1-amd64 (Debian 2.6.26-13) (waldi-8fiUuRrzOP0dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org) (gcc version 4.1.3 20080704 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.2-24)) #1 SMP Sat Jan 10 17:57:00 UTC 2009 > > > > [ 9.871456] hda_codec: Unknown model for ALC883, trying auto-probe from BIOS... > > lspci -vv > > 00:10.1 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP51 High Definition Audio (rev a2) > Subsystem: Foxconn International, Inc. Device 0ce4 > Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx- > Status: Cap+ 66MHz+ UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- SERR- Latency: 0 (500ns min, 1250ns max) > Interrupt: pin B routed to IRQ 22 > Region 0: Memory at fe024000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K] > Capabilities: > Kernel driver in use: HDA Intel > Kernel modules: snd-hda-intel Check in alsamixer and see if both master and pcm volumes are set at a reasonable level (I tend to go for about 75% since any more can cause distorsion on some sound chips). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 15:35:56 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:35:56 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <20090316151818.GX12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> <20090316151818.GX12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49BE71DC.5040505@ualberta.ca> On 16/03/09 11:18 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > gvim supports ctags which does the indexing. I use the taglist plugin for vim -- is that the one you're referring to? It will list your functions and you can choose to jump to them. It's nice, but I need something better than that. I need to, given a name in a source file (eg. a function call or class name), jump to that method or class's definition. Given a variable name, jump to its declaration. Given a class name jump to its definition. Having this feature is really nice for productivity in large projects.. I got hooked when using Eclipse with Java projects. If you find me a way to do this in vim I'll stick with it. But at the moment my code base is getting to be large and I'm spending a good deal of time opening files and finding the code associated with the functions. > I suspect vim might even do the search and replace through multiple files, > although I have never tried and usually use perl to do that. Yeah that's no big deal but if the IDE can do it then great. > Can't think of anything I would rather use for development than vim. I'll try to be true to vim for as long as I can. :) Marc -- Any code of your own that you haven't looked at for six or more months might as well have been written by someone else. -- Eagleson's law -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 15:51:04 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:51:04 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <49BE71DC.5040505-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> <20090316151818.GX12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49BE71DC.5040505@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <49BE7568.9060808@ualberta.ca> On 16/03/09 11:35 AM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > On 16/03/09 11:18 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> gvim supports ctags which does the indexing. > > I use the taglist plugin for vim -- is that the one you're referring to? > It will list your functions and you can choose to jump to them. > > It's nice, but I need something better than that. I need to, given a > name in a source file (eg. a function call or class name), jump to that > method or class's definition. Given a variable name, jump to its > declaration. Given a class name jump to its definition. > > Having this feature is really nice for productivity in large projects.. > I got hooked when using Eclipse with Java projects. > > If you find me a way to do this in vim I'll stick with it. But at the > moment my code base is getting to be large and I'm spending a good deal > of time opening files and finding the code associated with the functions. I'll answer my own question here: yes, gvim with ctags will work. http://linuxdocs.org/HOWTOs/Vim-HOWTO-6.html I'm quite surprised. So far it doesn't seem to work as well as Anjuta's. Do you know of a way to make it so that of the definition is in a file different than the current on it opens the file and jumps to the definition in a new tab? Actually, I'll answer my own question to that one as well. Yes you can by adding a def to your .vimrc: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/563616/vimctags-tips-and-tricks > I'll try to be true to vim for as long as I can. :) Maybe gvim and I will remain friends for longer than I thought... Marc -- Any code of your own that you haven't looked at for six or more months might as well have been written by someone else. -- Eagleson's law -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 16:13:37 2009 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:13:37 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <49BC0517.4080504-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <1237220017.26093.1305668977@webmail.messagingengine.com> Though I haven't tried it yet, I've also heard good things about Geany (www.geany.org), which is free, GTK-based and something of a "new kid on the block" in this category. Geany is marketed as "fast and lightweight", somewhere between a text editor and a full-on IDE. I don't know whether it will do everything you're looking for, but my first impressions are that it looks promising. I'd be interested to know what you or anyone else here thinks of it. Amanda ----- Original message ----- From: "Marc Lanctot" To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:27:19 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: C++ IDE Recommendation I'm looking for an IDE that works in Linux that has good syntax highlighting. Also I'm looking for two (third is not as important) specific features I've not found together yet: 1. Tabs for multiple files 2. Code indexing (highlight a function or class name and jump to its implementation) 3. Refactoring (change all instances of variable or function name in all source files) Eclipse (with the add-on for C++) does some but the indexing is not very well-implemented, last I tried it hardly worked. Also, Eclipse is really slow, so I was hoping to find a native client. KDevelop is missing the indexing, maybe also the refactoring. I use gvim right now but it obviously doesn't have the refactoring and indexing since it's not an IDE.. but if vim plugins existed for these then that would be great. Marc -- The only real valuable thing is intuition. -- Albert Einstein -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 16:54:56 2009 From: overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Overholt) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:54:56 -0400 Subject: C++ IDE Recommendation In-Reply-To: <49BC0517.4080504-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <49BC0517.4080504@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <1237222496.3455.0.camel@vvvvt> On Sat, 2009-03-14 at 15:27 -0400, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Eclipse (with the add-on for C++) does some but the indexing is not > very well-implemented, last I tried it hardly worked. The indexing has improved immensely in recent releases. > Also, Eclipse is really slow, so I was hoping to find a native client. What kind of hardware were you running it on? Andrew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 20:30:43 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: poll: problems with MTRRs? In-Reply-To: <907392.16747.qm-Fzfr+oC8rxz5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <907392.16747.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: | From: E K | I got a Dell Inpiron 530 with 4Gb RAM. The BIOS sees all the 4Gb and | KUbuntu sees only 3Gb of it. I undertood that that was an upper limit | for all 32bit OSes. In any case, I am running KUbuntu 7.10 kernel | 2.6.22.14-generic and my MTRR line is 32-bit x86 kernels usually come in two flavours: with and without PAE support. The normal one is without. The kernel with PAE support can use all of your RAM. | [ 42.397018] mtrr: no more MTRRs available I wonder what that is about. Can you tell me what /proc/mtrr says? My guess is that all 8 MTRRs are being used and there isn't one free for the video card's address range. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 20:58:31 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP In-Reply-To: References: <1237045172.27156.121.camel@leon> <1f13df280903151741o68b81167qa78e48970f8cc571@mail.gmail.com> <1237170064.27156.375.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Mar 2009, Kevin Morris wrote: > Looks like most people want the photo editing presentation. That's > fine by me, I'm sure that there are things I can learn as well. At a > later time if there is an opening for a presentation we can revisit > this topic to see if there will be sufficient interest. > > Richard, unfortunately I don't know how to create images with any > software, other than paint (if that counts ;) ), and so my reason > for asking.. I create images using a text editor. I write them in PostScript and convert them to GIFs or PNGs with ImageMagick. For example: . If people are interested, I could prepare a talk on the subject. >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP >> From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:21:04 -0400 >> >> On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 20:41 -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >>> 2009/3/14 Kevin Morris : >>>>> Subject: [TLUG]: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP >> >>>>> The GIMP was the most requested topic in our recent poll and is eagerly >>>>> anticipated based on discussion at recent meetings. >>> >>>> Thanks Giles for taking on this presentation. Based on the >>>> information about what is being presented can I make a >>>> request/suggestion; will it be possible to cover a fair amount on >>>> original image creation or have another follow-up session on it. >>>> >>>> Personally, I would like to learn more about original image >>>> creation and tap into my creative side. If Giles has the time and >>>> is willing. >>> >>> I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the main interest was in photo >>> editing. I've made many images from scratch with GIMP but I'm >>> definitely better at photo editing. >> >> Let's keep to the original, "How do I get started with The GIMP" >> approach and in your comfort-zone, Giles, for your choice of >> demonstrations. With many new GIMP users after your talk, perhaps one >> or more will volunteer to take a go at a "Creating / Painting with The >> GIMP" talk for later. >> >> Like any worthwhile topic, you cannot cover everything. Pick one >> message to deliver, one story to tell, and build your demonstrations >> around that. >> >> Kevin, if you are comfortable creating images with other software >> (Inkscape perhaps?) maybe you can do a talk on that? -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 21:11:01 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:11:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: poll: problems with MTRRs? In-Reply-To: <20090316153017.GY12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090316153017.GY12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 04:58:18PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > How many of you have x86 computers with 4G or more of RAM? | | I have 6GB in my mythtv box (which did cause some initial issues that | I worked around using some not so normal methods). Do I remember that you eventually got a BIOS update that fix the problems? There can be several MTRR problems. The one I'm concerned about is where the BIOS sets up MTRRs with nested ranges. I think you had a problem with some RAM not actually being covered by an MTRR and therefore being uncached. That is clearly a BIOS bug. | > On many such systems, the MTRRs are set up by the BIOS in a way that | > conflicts with X. | | Mine works fine. I have only ever heard of intel boards and a few | gigabyte boards gettings this wrong. Of course since I only personally | use asus boards and they never appear to have had the mtrr bugs, I can't | say much there. Note: I didn't say that the BIOS is wrong. In fact, I don't think that it is. It just doesn't get along with Linux. My HP has a motherboard made by ASUSTeK Computer INC (captitalization from dmidecode's output). The BIOS is originally from American Megatrends Inc. I presume that both Asus and HP poked at it. | > Could you run the following command and tell me about your system if | > if grep prints anything? | > dmesg | grep -i mtrr | > | > You might see things like: | > mtrr: type mismatch for d0000000,10000000 old: write-back new: write-combining | > mtrr: no MTRR for d0000000,10000000 found | | In fact none of the kernels I have looked at have mtrr stuff printed in | dmesg anymore. I think they stopped doing that a few years ago. How old | is your kernel? The MTRR fixup code was added for 2.6.27. It prints "before" and "after" MTRR values (the author of the code accepted my suggestion that the "before" values were worth printing). My systems run 2.6.27. The fixup code is not enabled by default. It is compiled-in for Fedora 10 kernels and I presume for Ubuntu Intrepid kernels. To enable it, pass the kernel the "enable_mtrr_cleanup" parameter. If you don't see anything printed, I suspect that the BIOS didn't nest any MTRRs. | > I'd like to know what distro you are running (/etc/issue) and | > what kernel you are running (/proc/version). | > | > I'd like to know what your MTRR's look like. Could you tell me what | > /proc/mtrr says? | > | > I hope to be able to help you if you do find these messages in the | > dmesg output. | | Well certainly newer kernels have tried to deal with some of these bugs, | although apparently the real solution is for X to start using PAT rather | than MTRR since the 8 entry MTRR is awfully limited given todays ram | quantities. Right. | Well here is the /proc/mtrr of one box with 8GB ram running Debian Etch | at the moment with the 2.6.24 etchnhalf kernel (amd64 of course): | | reg00: base=0x00000000 ( 0MB), size=2048MB: write-back, count=1 | reg01: base=0x80000000 (2048MB), size=1024MB: write-back, count=1 | reg02: base=0x100000000 (4096MB), size=4096MB: write-back, count=1 | reg03: base=0x200000000 (8192MB), size=8192MB: write-back, count=1 | reg04: base=0x400000000 (16384MB), size=16384MB: write-back, count=1 | reg05: base=0x800000000 (32768MB), size=32768MB: write-back, count=1 | reg06: base=0xd0000000 (3328MB), size= 16MB: write-combining, count=1 | | Strangely it doesn't appear in dmesg. No idea why. It only has 8GB ram, | but seems to have setup a much larger mtrr range. X works fine though. | System is an IBM X3650. The "write-combining" shows that you are running X and that it has happily changed MTRR 6 from "uncached". There is no overlap here. But you are right: MTRRs 3, 4, and 5 cover address ranges that are probably almost unpopulated. I say "almost" since a certain amount of memory from under the 4G boundary has been moved above the 8G boundary to make room for PCI bus space (like the video card). | Here is my mythtv box with 6GB ram on an Asus P5K board (using a P5K-R | bios to get AHCI mode on the ICH9 SATA controller which allows 64bit | dma rather than the 32bit dma limit in IDE mode): | | reg00: base=0xd0000000 (3328MB), size= 256MB: uncachable, count=1 | reg01: base=0xe0000000 (3584MB), size= 512MB: uncachable, count=1 | reg02: base=0x00000000 ( 0MB), size=4096MB: write-back, count=1 | reg03: base=0x100000000 (4096MB), size=2048MB: write-back, count=1 | reg04: base=0x180000000 (6144MB), size= 512MB: write-back, count=1 | reg05: base=0x1a0000000 (6656MB), size= 256MB: write-back, count=1 | | No problem there either. Running 2.6.26 amd64 kernel with Debian | unstable. Either you are not running X or you are not using a conventional driver or it is unhappy. None of your MTRRs say "write-combining". Perhaps your driver and kernel know how to use PAT. Any idea what's going on here? Perhaps clues are in /var/log/Xorg.0.log (if you are running X). Your video card's address range is probably covered by reg00 or reg01. Their ranges are nested within reg02's range and therefore cannot be changed to "write-combining" without a reorganization. Here's what my program mtrr-uncover suggests: Initial MTRR configuration: 2 0x000000000-0x0ffffffff write-back 0 0x0d0000000-0x0dfffffff uncachable 1 0x0e0000000-0x0ffffffff uncachable 3 0x100000000-0x17fffffff write-back 4 0x180000000-0x19fffffff write-back 5 0x1a0000000-0x1afffffff write-back Final MTRR configuration: 2' 0x000000000-0x07fffffff write-back 50' 0x080000000-0x0bfffffff write-back 51' 0x0c0000000-0x0cfffffff write-back 3 0x100000000-0x17fffffff write-back 4 0x180000000-0x19fffffff write-back 5 0x1a0000000-0x1afffffff write-back -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 21:41:24 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:41:24 -0400 Subject: syslog configuration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Redelmeier, Thanks for your assistance. You helped by pointing a couple of point that lead me in the proper direction. Like that syslog has only limited facilities. > | Added ?"snmpd.none" on the 7th line in syslog.conf file : > | *.info;mail.none;authpriv.none;cron.none;snmpd.none ? ? ? ? ? ? ? /var/log/messages > | > | Then added this line at the end of the file > | > | local1.* ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-/var/log/snmpd.log > | > | Then restarted syslog. It came up, but complained it has no idea what snmpd meant. And nothing changed, snmp keep pushing crap on the message file. > Just in case it may assist someone else, here is how to go about it. Create the file below vi /etc/snmp/snmpd.options And have the following as its content OPTIONS=?-Ls 3 -Lf /dev/null -p /var/run/snmpd.pid -a? Essentially, that tell snmp not send logs to a file called dev/null and also log them through syslog facility local3 Restart snmpd Then, do the following changes on syslog config file vi /etc/syslog.conf change this line: .info;mail.none;authpriv.none;cron.none /var/log/messages to .info;mail.none;authpriv.none;cron.none;local3.none /var/log/messages That is important to suppress snmp default behaviour. It insist on logging as a daemon even after above change Then add the following line some where at the bottom of the same file local3.notice /var/log/snmpd.log Save the changes on syslog.conf and restart syslog It should work as now. This is redhat specific. Regards, William > | No luck. I have also looked through the snmp manual and it found nothing helpful there. > > Read rsyslog.conf(5) (at least on my system, Fedora 10). > > The format of a selector is facility.priority. ?"snmpd" isn't a > facility. > > ? ?The facility is one of the following keywords: auth, authpriv, > ? ?cron, daemon, kern, lpr, mail, mark, news, security (same as > ? ?auth), syslog, user, uucp and local0 through local7. The keyword > ? ?security should not be used anymore and mark is only for internal > ? ?use and therefore should not be used in applications. ?Anyway, you > ? ?may want to specify and redirect these messages here. ?The > ? ?facility specifies the subsystem that produced the message, i.e. > ? ?all mail programs log with the mail facility (LOG_MAIL) if they > ? ?log using syslog. > > That explains your error message. ?I don't remember at the moment how > one is supposed to do what you want to do. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- For a list of all the ways technology has failed to improve the quality of life, please press three. ?Alice Kahn -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 21:50:12 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:50:12 -0400 Subject: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP In-Reply-To: References: <1237045172.27156.121.camel@leon> <1f13df280903151741o68b81167qa78e48970f8cc571@mail.gmail.com> <1237170064.27156.375.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 16 Mar 2009, Kevin Morris wrote: > >> Looks like most people want the photo editing presentation. That's >> fine by me, I'm sure that there are things I can learn as well. At a >> later time if there is an opening for a presentation we can revisit >> this topic to see if there will be sufficient interest. >> >> Richard, unfortunately I don't know how to create images with any >> software, other than paint (if that counts ;) ), and so my reason >> for asking.. > > ? ?I create images using a text editor. > > ? ?I write them in PostScript and convert them to GIFs or PNGs with > ? ?ImageMagick. For example: . > > ? ?If people are interested, I could prepare a talk on the subject. My usual inclination when generating graph-like things, these days, is to create GraphViz control files using a text editor. If I intended to do detailed drawing work, I expect I'd use MetaPost , but it has been so long since I've done that that I actually used MetaFont , because MetaPost didn't exist back then! :-) Of course, this is all pretty much the antithesis of doing "visual design" :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Joan Rivers - "I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw that my bath toys were a toaster and a radio." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 16 22:23:47 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:23:47 -0400 Subject: poll: problems with MTRRs? In-Reply-To: References: <20090316153017.GY12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090316222347.GA12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 05:11:01PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Do I remember that you eventually got a BIOS update that fix the > problems? Well there was nothing wrong with the what the BIOS was doing. Unfortunately running with the ICH9 SATA interface in IDE mode (the only choice on the ICH9 it seems according to intel) means you can only do 32bit DMA access, which means all buffers for SATA access have to go through an address below 4GB, which means the kernel starts using bounce buffers (by default it sets aside 64MB for this). Unfortunately 64MB isn't enough it seems for some workloads and I started (on first boot with the extra 4GB added) getting lots of out of bounce buffer space messages. Conviniently (for me) asus also makes a board called the P5K-R which is a P5K with an ICH9R rather than an ICH9. By flashing the P5K-R bios onto my P5K (using some force and a command line bios updater) I now have the options of IDE, AHCI and RAID for the SATA controller. RAID won't work on an ICH9 of course, but contrary to intel's official opinion, an ICH9 works fine in AHCI mode. Intel is just upset that some people were using their ICH9 in AHCI mode rather than paying for the more expensive ICH9R (which officially does AHCI and fakeRAID). My P5K board actually used to have an AHCI option in the BIOS, but a BIOS upgrade removed it after intel apparently had complained to Asus about license fees or soemthing or other regarding the ICH9 and AHCI mode. That's when asus released the P5K-R as well. In AHCI mode I can do 64bit DMA and hence no more bounce buffers. Much better now. The ivtv tv tuner still uses bounce buffers though but that seems to work fine. > There can be several MTRR problems. The one I'm concerned about is > where the BIOS sets up MTRRs with nested ranges. > > I think you had a problem with some RAM not actually being covered by > an MTRR and therefore being uncached. That is clearly a BIOS bug. Some people have had that, almost always with intel boards. I have never bought an intel board and almost certainly never will. Their chipsets are great, but their boards and BIOSs are not. > Note: I didn't say that the BIOS is wrong. In fact, I don't think > that it is. It just doesn't get along with Linux. And probably wouldn't get along with some older windows versions either. Of course if it works with XP and Vista they probably rightly don't care. PATs have been around for a long time and its about time X started using them instead of the mtrr settings. > My HP has a motherboard made by ASUSTeK Computer INC (captitalization > from dmidecode's output). The BIOS is originally from American > Megatrends Inc. I presume that both Asus and HP poked at it. Could be. Of course what HP specifies they want is often much less than Asus would offer on a board with their own name on it. > The MTRR fixup code was added for 2.6.27. It prints "before" and > "after" MTRR values (the author of the code accepted my suggestion > that the "before" values were worth printing). Oh OK. I am still running 2.6.26 due to lirc issues I was having with 2.6.28. > My systems run 2.6.27. The fixup code is not enabled by default. It > is compiled-in for Fedora 10 kernels and I presume for Ubuntu Intrepid > kernels. To enable it, pass the kernel the "enable_mtrr_cleanup" > parameter. > > If you don't see anything printed, I suspect that the BIOS didn't > nest any MTRRs. Nope mine are quite linear. > | > I'd like to know what distro you are running (/etc/issue) and > | > what kernel you are running (/proc/version). > | > > | > I'd like to know what your MTRR's look like. Could you tell me what > | > /proc/mtrr says? > | > > | > I hope to be able to help you if you do find these messages in the > | > dmesg output. > | > | Well certainly newer kernels have tried to deal with some of these bugs, > | although apparently the real solution is for X to start using PAT rather > | than MTRR since the 8 entry MTRR is awfully limited given todays ram > | quantities. > > Right. > > | Well here is the /proc/mtrr of one box with 8GB ram running Debian Etch > | at the moment with the 2.6.24 etchnhalf kernel (amd64 of course): > | > | reg00: base=0x00000000 ( 0MB), size=2048MB: write-back, count=1 > | reg01: base=0x80000000 (2048MB), size=1024MB: write-back, count=1 > | reg02: base=0x100000000 (4096MB), size=4096MB: write-back, count=1 > | reg03: base=0x200000000 (8192MB), size=8192MB: write-back, count=1 > | reg04: base=0x400000000 (16384MB), size=16384MB: write-back, count=1 > | reg05: base=0x800000000 (32768MB), size=32768MB: write-back, count=1 > | reg06: base=0xd0000000 (3328MB), size= 16MB: write-combining, count=1 > | > | Strangely it doesn't appear in dmesg. No idea why. It only has 8GB ram, > | but seems to have setup a much larger mtrr range. X works fine though. > | System is an IBM X3650. > > The "write-combining" shows that you are running X and that it has > happily changed MTRR 6 from "uncached". Yep. Some desktop systems might thing only giving 3GB (exactly) of ram to 32bit systems would be silly, but hey this is a server. Simple is better. Using 2 MTRR entries for the first 3GB, and 4 more for the 4 to 64GB range is quite efficient. > There is no overlap here. But you are right: MTRRs 3, 4, and 5 cover > address ranges that are probably almost unpopulated. I say "almost" > since a certain amount of memory from under the 4G boundary has been > moved above the 8G boundary to make room for PCI bus space (like the > video card). I am sure that with 8GB ram, nothing is above address 12GB. No need to cover mtrr to 32GB, but oh well. It works. > | Here is my mythtv box with 6GB ram on an Asus P5K board (using a P5K-R > | bios to get AHCI mode on the ICH9 SATA controller which allows 64bit > | dma rather than the 32bit dma limit in IDE mode): > | > | reg00: base=0xd0000000 (3328MB), size= 256MB: uncachable, count=1 > | reg01: base=0xe0000000 (3584MB), size= 512MB: uncachable, count=1 > | reg02: base=0x00000000 ( 0MB), size=4096MB: write-back, count=1 > | reg03: base=0x100000000 (4096MB), size=2048MB: write-back, count=1 > | reg04: base=0x180000000 (6144MB), size= 512MB: write-back, count=1 > | reg05: base=0x1a0000000 (6656MB), size= 256MB: write-back, count=1 > | > | No problem there either. Running 2.6.26 amd64 kernel with Debian > | unstable. > > Either you are not running X or you are not using a conventional > driver or it is unhappy. None of your MTRRs say "write-combining". > Perhaps your driver and kernel know how to use PAT. Any idea what's > going on here? Perhaps clues are in /var/log/Xorg.0.log (if you are > running X). Strangely there are no complains in the Xorg.0.log at all. > Your video card's address range is probably covered by reg00 or reg01. > Their ranges are nested within reg02's range and therefore cannot be > changed to "write-combining" without a reorganization. Could be. Seems a bit odd. > Here's what my program mtrr-uncover suggests: > > Initial MTRR configuration: > 2 0x000000000-0x0ffffffff write-back > 0 0x0d0000000-0x0dfffffff uncachable > 1 0x0e0000000-0x0ffffffff uncachable > 3 0x100000000-0x17fffffff write-back > 4 0x180000000-0x19fffffff write-back > 5 0x1a0000000-0x1afffffff write-back > > Final MTRR configuration: > 2' 0x000000000-0x07fffffff write-back > 50' 0x080000000-0x0bfffffff write-back > 51' 0x0c0000000-0x0cfffffff write-back > 3 0x100000000-0x17fffffff write-back > 4 0x180000000-0x19fffffff write-back > 5 0x1a0000000-0x1afffffff write-back -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 01:05:29 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:05:29 -0400 Subject: What if xrandr doesn't have the resolution you need? Message-ID: <20090317010529.GA18429@yam.witteman.ca.witteman.ca> I have a Debian box at work plugged into a Dell 24" LCD with 1920x1200 pixels. xrandr does not give me this size as an option, however. The box uses an ATI video card, and it is plugged into the VGA input on the monitor, if that matters. The current size is 1650x1080, which of course looks wrong, but if xrandr doesn't give me the option I need, what do I do? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 01:28:51 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:28:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: poll: problems with MTRRs? In-Reply-To: <20090316222347.GA12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090316153017.GY12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090316222347.GA12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Well there was nothing wrong with the what the BIOS was doing. | Unfortunately running with the ICH9 SATA interface in IDE mode (the only | choice on the ICH9 it seems according to intel) means you can only do | 32bit DMA access, which means all buffers for SATA access have to go | through an address below 4GB, which means the kernel starts using bounce | buffers (by default it sets aside 64MB for this). | | Unfortunately 64MB isn't enough it seems for some workloads and I started | (on first boot with the extra 4GB added) getting lots of out of bounce | buffer space messages. | In AHCI mode I can do 64bit DMA and hence no more bounce buffers. | Much better now. The ivtv tv tuner still uses bounce buffers though | but that seems to work fine. I don't understand that. Here's what I think I know (subject to correction): PCI addresses are 64 bits but most devices only use 32-bit addresses. On ordinary (non-64-bit) PCI, passing 64-bit addresses takes two transfers. I don't know about PCIe. In x86, the normal approach has been to map the PCI 32-bit address space to the lower 4GiB of physical address space. So typically, 3.x GiB is for RAM and some part of the top 1GiB is for devices. Hence the need for bounce buffers. (A replay of what happened when PCs got more than 16M of RAM and the ISA bus couldn't address it.) (The Broadcom wireless in one of my notebooks can only addess the bottom 1G -- odd and undocumented.) The Athlon 64 architecture introduced an IOMMU which allowed a moderately crude mapping of the PCI address space onto the memory address space. The IOMMU was on the CPU chip (that's where the memory controller is in the Athlon 64). Somehow Intel didn't notice when they cloned the architecture so the P4 didn't have an IOMMU. I presume they fixed this for Intel Core. But where? The memory controller is on support chips, not the CPU chip. So why can the IOMMU not work for your IDE controller? Why does it work when you change the BIOS? Is there an issue related to scatter/gather? | > | Here is my mythtv box with 6GB ram on an Asus P5K board (using a P5K-R | > | bios to get AHCI mode on the ICH9 SATA controller which allows 64bit | > | dma rather than the 32bit dma limit in IDE mode): | > | | > | reg00: base=0xd0000000 (3328MB), size= 256MB: uncachable, count=1 | > | reg01: base=0xe0000000 (3584MB), size= 512MB: uncachable, count=1 | > | reg02: base=0x00000000 ( 0MB), size=4096MB: write-back, count=1 | > | reg03: base=0x100000000 (4096MB), size=2048MB: write-back, count=1 | > | reg04: base=0x180000000 (6144MB), size= 512MB: write-back, count=1 | > | reg05: base=0x1a0000000 (6656MB), size= 256MB: write-back, count=1 | > | | > | No problem there either. Running 2.6.26 amd64 kernel with Debian | > | unstable. | > | > Either you are not running X or you are not using a conventional | > driver or it is unhappy. None of your MTRRs say "write-combining". | > Perhaps your driver and kernel know how to use PAT. Any idea what's | > going on here? Perhaps clues are in /var/log/Xorg.0.log (if you are | > running X). | | Strangely there are no complains in the Xorg.0.log at all. | | > Your video card's address range is probably covered by reg00 or reg01. | > Their ranges are nested within reg02's range and therefore cannot be | > changed to "write-combining" without a reorganization. | | Could be. Seems a bit odd. My guesses are that you are using the proprietary nVidia driver and that it uses PAT. I noticed a contribution from nVidia to the kernel to support PAT six years ago! http://lkml.org/lkml/2003/5/20/131 I don't actually know if it was adopted then. Sad that the open source drivers don't yet use PAT. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 02:40:04 2009 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:40:04 -0400 Subject: What if xrandr doesn't have the resolution you need? In-Reply-To: <20090317010529.GA18429-BcIWU8F4Mdi48Ay+lmqAmAebU5vi/s6sLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20090317010529.GA18429@yam.witteman.ca.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <200903162240.04914.amarjan@pobox.com> On March 16, 2009 09:05:29 pm William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have a Debian box at work plugged into a Dell 24" LCD with 1920x1200 > pixels. xrandr does not give me this size as an option, however. The > box uses an ATI video card, and it is plugged into the VGA input on the > monitor, if that matters. > > The current size is 1650x1080, which of course looks wrong, but if > xrandr doesn't give me the option I need, what do I do? That's about as high as you'll get out of single link DVI. To get 1920x1200 you'll need a dual link port on your video card and dual link DVI cable; do you have both? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 03:22:27 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:22:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: What if xrandr doesn't have the resolution you need? In-Reply-To: <200903162240.04914.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090317010529.GA18429@yam.witteman.ca.witteman.ca> <200903162240.04914.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: | From: Andrej Marjan | To get 1920x1200 you'll need a dual link port on your video card and dual link | DVI cable; do you have both? That turns out not to be the case. 1920x1200 @ 60Hz is fine with single link. See, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface Some video cards cannot handle that resolution. Some drivers cannot handle that resolution. Funny example: my father's Dell 3000 with some Intel chipset could drive my Dell 1920x1200 monitor with Linux, but not with MS Windows XP. Some video BIOSes don't have a suitable mode (hence the non-modesetting drivers won't work). Some drivers depend on EDID information provided by the monitor. This has caused me problems because my KVM doesn't pass that information. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 03:48:58 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Presentation June 2009: Beginning GIMP In-Reply-To: References: <1237045172.27156.121.camel@leon> <1f13df280903151741o68b81167qa78e48970f8cc571@mail.gmail.com> <1237170064.27156.375.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Mar 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009, Kevin Morris wrote: >> >>> Looks like most people want the photo editing presentation. That's >>> fine by me, I'm sure that there are things I can learn as well. At a >>> later time if there is an opening for a presentation we can revisit >>> this topic to see if there will be sufficient interest. >>> >>> Richard, unfortunately I don't know how to create images with any >>> software, other than paint (if that counts ;) ), and so my reason >>> for asking.. >> >> I create images using a text editor. >> >> I write them in PostScript and convert them to GIFs or PNGs with >> ImageMagick. For example: . >> >> If people are interested, I could prepare a talk on the subject. > > My usual inclination when generating graph-like things, these days, is > to create GraphViz control files using a text editor. > I rarely use graphs or other types of "business" graphics. The last time I did was from 1992 to 1995 when I wrote organizational and succession planning chart generators, first in Lotus123, then in Excel4 (macros), then in Excel5 (VBA). I have put a few of the graphics I have written in PostScript at . Clicking on an image will bring up the PostScript file. The PS is not polished; it's first draught quality. > If I intended to do detailed drawing work, I expect I'd use MetaPost > What's the point? It is just as easy to write it directly in PostScript as to use MataPost to create the PostScript. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 03:55:29 2009 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any javascript/php experts out there? Message-ID: <221b50fa941f60c53617df7e686e2e71.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Hey all, I am trying to get a script on my website to work properly. You can see it here in action... http://jasoncarson.ca/hnguestbook/ When you click "Sign the Guestbook" and try to sign it it doesn't refresh properly (but it does sign) which you can see my refreshing your browser. The script is orignally from http://www.hnscripts.com and the script is called gnguestbook. There is a demo in action and it works the way its suppose to, here it is if you want to try it and compare to my website... http://www.hnscripts.com/hnguestbook/ If someone could download and install the script and figure out how to make it refresh properly that would be great. Thanks Jason -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 04:08:57 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:08:57 -0400 Subject: Any javascript/php experts out there? In-Reply-To: <221b50fa941f60c53617df7e686e2e71.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <221b50fa941f60c53617df7e686e2e71.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <49BF2259.4020900@gmail.com> Looks like function ajax does not force to refresh. You have a method onClick="javascript:ajax()" and thats it. It does not reload the page. Trace values of parameters at the end of function ajax(). You may use firebug and firebug specific functions for tracing these parameters. Or just use alert() for that. BTW, using HREF like "javascript:ajax()" is considered for some reasons I do not remember a high security risk. You can instead write just onClick="ajax()" zb. Jason Carson wrote: > Hey all, > > I am trying to get a script on my website to work properly. You can see it > here in action... > > http://jasoncarson.ca/hnguestbook/ > > When you click "Sign the Guestbook" and try to sign it it doesn't refresh > properly (but it does sign) which you can see my refreshing your browser. > > The script is orignally from http://www.hnscripts.com and the script is > called gnguestbook. There is a demo in action and it works the way its > suppose to, here it is if you want to try it and compare to my website... > > http://www.hnscripts.com/hnguestbook/ > > If someone could download and install the script and figure out how to > make it refresh properly that would be great. > > Thanks > > Jason > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 04:25:46 2009 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Any javascript/php experts out there? In-Reply-To: <49BF2259.4020900-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <221b50fa941f60c53617df7e686e2e71.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <49BF2259.4020900@gmail.com> Message-ID: <01a85fcb08260c4e0139783e1d08555e.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> ok, I am not sure what I am suppose to do. I tried changing this line in the index.php file... to (Both are all one line each) ...But that didn't do anything. It still doesn't work. I know a little PHP and no javascript so maybe I am not doing something correctly. > Looks like function ajax does not force to refresh. > > You have a method onClick="javascript:ajax()" and thats it. It does not > reload the page. > > Trace values of parameters at the end of function ajax(). You may use > firebug and > firebug specific functions for tracing these parameters. Or just use > alert() for that. > > BTW, using HREF like "javascript:ajax()" is considered for some reasons I > do not remember a high security risk. > You can instead write just onClick="ajax()" > > > zb. > > > > Jason Carson wrote: >> Hey all, >> >> I am trying to get a script on my website to work properly. You can see >> it >> here in action... >> >> http://jasoncarson.ca/hnguestbook/ >> >> When you click "Sign the Guestbook" and try to sign it it doesn't >> refresh >> properly (but it does sign) which you can see my refreshing your >> browser. >> >> The script is orignally from http://www.hnscripts.com and the script is >> called gnguestbook. There is a demo in action and it works the way its >> suppose to, here it is if you want to try it and compare to my >> website... >> >> http://www.hnscripts.com/hnguestbook/ >> >> If someone could download and install the script and figure out how to >> make it refresh properly that would be great. >> >> Thanks >> >> Jason >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 07:44:07 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: poll: problems with MTRRs? In-Reply-To: References: <20090316153017.GY12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090316222347.GA12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | Somehow Intel didn't notice when they cloned the architecture so the | P4 didn't have an IOMMU. I presume they fixed this for Intel Core. | But where? The memory controller is on support chips, not the CPU | chip. I'm having trouble finding out about VT-D, Intel's name for this feature. Specifically: what chips support it. According to this document it is supported in the 82Q45 Graphics and Memory Controller Hub (GMCH) and not the other ones described there. Furthermore, there is a bug that can only be mitigated by not using VT-D. http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/specupdate/319971.pdf It seems to also be supported by the 82q35 according to http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/316966.htm This is also the only family member that supports Intel Trusted Execution Technology and Intel Active Management Technolgy, whatever that is. So my 4 year old Athlon 64 systems have an IOMMU but my six month old Core2Quad system does not (it has an 82q33 chip). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 14:05:05 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:05:05 -0400 Subject: What if xrandr doesn't have the resolution you need? In-Reply-To: <20090317010529.GA18429-BcIWU8F4Mdi48Ay+lmqAmAebU5vi/s6sLAPz8V8PbKw@public.gmane.org> References: <20090317010529.GA18429@yam.witteman.ca.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20090317140504.GB12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 09:05:29PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have a Debian box at work plugged into a Dell 24" LCD with 1920x1200 > pixels. xrandr does not give me this size as an option, however. The > box uses an ATI video card, and it is plugged into the VGA input on the > monitor, if that matters. > > The current size is 1650x1080, which of course looks wrong, but if > xrandr doesn't give me the option I need, what do I do? Can you post your Xorg.0.log file and your xorg.conf? I am curious what it is detecting for the monitor. Of course using anything but DVI for a resolution like that is crazy (although it does work with VGA as well). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 14:07:03 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:07:03 -0400 Subject: What if xrandr doesn't have the resolution you need? In-Reply-To: <200903162240.04914.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090317010529.GA18429@yam.witteman.ca.witteman.ca> <200903162240.04914.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20090317140702.GC12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:40:04PM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > On March 16, 2009 09:05:29 pm William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > > I have a Debian box at work plugged into a Dell 24" LCD with 1920x1200 > > pixels. xrandr does not give me this size as an option, however. The > > box uses an ATI video card, and it is plugged into the VGA input on the > > monitor, if that matters. > > > > The current size is 1650x1080, which of course looks wrong, but if > > xrandr doesn't give me the option I need, what do I do? > > That's about as high as you'll get out of single link DVI. No 1920x1200 is perfectly normal on single link DVI, and he said he was using VGA. > To get 1920x1200 you'll need a dual link port on your video card and dual link > DVI cable; do you have both? You need dual link only for 2560x1600 (which is what the 30" screens use). Single link DVI has enough bandwidth for 1600x1200 with full CRT blankings, or 1920x1200 without the full blankings (which a CRT doesn't need). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 15:23:39 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:23:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: poll: problems with MTRRs? In-Reply-To: <20090317141412.GD12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090316153017.GY12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090316222347.GA12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090317141412.GD12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Subject: Re: [TLUG]: poll: problems with MTRRs? | | On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 09:28:51PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > PCI addresses are 64 bits but most devices only use 32-bit addresses. | > On ordinary (non-64-bit) PCI, passing 64-bit addresses takes two | > transfers. I don't know about PCIe. | | No PCI can be 32 or 64bit. If a device is 32bit then it can only address | 32bit addresses at all. Many devices are this way. It's simpler and | cheaper to implement them with only room for 32bit addresses. Why intel | decided that in IDE mode it should be 32bit and in AHCI it should be | 64bit capable I have no idea. Maybe PCI IDE was simply always defined | as 32bit only. At least on the current ICH10 series they finally made | AHCI officially available on both the raid and nonraid versions. Even with a 32-bit PCI bus, 64-bit addresses can be supported. Look at http://pinouts.ru/Slots/PCI_pinout.shtml Although it is not widely implemented, PCI supports 64-bit addressing. Unlike the 64-bit data bus option which requires a longer connector with an additional 32-bits of data signals, 64-bit addressing can be supported through the base 32-bit connector. Dual Address Cycles are issued in which the low order 32-bits of the address are driven onto the AD[31:0] signals during the first address phase, and the high order 32-bits of the address (if non-zero) are driven onto the AD[31:0] signals during a second address phase. The remainder of the transfer continues like a normal bus transfer. On the 64-bit PCI bus, there are 64 AD lines so that a 64-bit address can be transmitted in one cycle. My *guess* is that any 32-bit device could choose to support 64-bit addresses but the computer would not need to handle this if it chose never to program any DMAs beyond 4GiB. | Unfortunately, while AMD CPUs with their onboard memory controller also | included an IOMMU on almost all of the chips (some early ones didn't | have it as far as I recall), intel did not do the same in their chipsets, | except for some server chipsets. Hence my Core2Quad + P35 chipset has | no IOMMU and has to do a softIOMMU using a bounce buffer. I wonder why. Intel seems to be really stingy about VT and VT-d compared with AMD. I guess that Intel can use this to price differentiate but AMD is kind of desperate for any sale. I don't remember any Athlon 64 without an IOMMU. Not that I would necessarily know. Do you have any more solid information? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 17:15:34 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:15:34 -0400 Subject: poll: problems with MTRRs? In-Reply-To: References: <20090316153017.GY12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090316222347.GA12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090317171533.GE12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 03:44:07AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier > > | Somehow Intel didn't notice when they cloned the architecture so the > | P4 didn't have an IOMMU. I presume they fixed this for Intel Core. > | But where? The memory controller is on support chips, not the CPU > | chip. > > I'm having trouble finding out about VT-D, Intel's name for this > feature. Specifically: what chips support it. Seems the answer is something like: Q35, Q45, 5400XS. Maybe a few more. Apparently the X38 and X48 are also able to do it although many boards don't enable it from the BIOS. > According to this document it is supported in the 82Q45 Graphics and > Memory Controller Hub (GMCH) and not the other ones described there. > Furthermore, there is a bug that can only be mitigated by not using > VT-D. > http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/specupdate/319971.pdf > > It seems to also be supported by the 82q35 according to > http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/316966.htm > This is also the only family member that supports Intel Trusted > Execution Technology and Intel Active Management Technolgy, whatever > that is. > > So my 4 year old Athlon 64 systems have an IOMMU but my six month old > Core2Quad system does not (it has an 82q33 chip). That would be correct. My P35 certainly doesn't have it. Now if your devices are 64bit address capable, then you don't need it. So AHCI controller is fine, but many PCI cards are not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 17 18:04:06 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:04:06 -0400 Subject: poll: problems with MTRRs? In-Reply-To: References: <20090316153017.GY12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090316222347.GA12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090317141412.GD12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090317180405.GF12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 11:23:39AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > | Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > | Subject: Re: [TLUG]: poll: problems with MTRRs? > | > | On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 09:28:51PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > | > PCI addresses are 64 bits but most devices only use 32-bit addresses. > | > On ordinary (non-64-bit) PCI, passing 64-bit addresses takes two > | > transfers. I don't know about PCIe. > | > | No PCI can be 32 or 64bit. If a device is 32bit then it can only address > | 32bit addresses at all. Many devices are this way. It's simpler and > | cheaper to implement them with only room for 32bit addresses. Why intel > | decided that in IDE mode it should be 32bit and in AHCI it should be > | 64bit capable I have no idea. Maybe PCI IDE was simply always defined > | as 32bit only. At least on the current ICH10 series they finally made > | AHCI officially available on both the raid and nonraid versions. > > Even with a 32-bit PCI bus, 64-bit addresses can be supported. > Look at http://pinouts.ru/Slots/PCI_pinout.shtml Yes. I meant to say "If a device is 32bit internally". The bus width isn't relevant to the issue. > Although it is not widely implemented, PCI supports 64-bit addressing. > Unlike the 64-bit data bus option which requires a longer connector > with an additional 32-bits of data signals, 64-bit addressing can be > supported through the base 32-bit connector. Dual Address Cycles are > issued in which the low order 32-bits of the address are driven onto > the AD[31:0] signals during the first address phase, and the high > order 32-bits of the address (if non-zero) are driven onto the > AD[31:0] signals during a second address phase. The remainder of the > transfer continues like a normal bus transfer. > > On the 64-bit PCI bus, there are 64 AD lines so that a 64-bit address > can be transmitted in one cycle. > > My *guess* is that any 32-bit device could choose to support 64-bit > addresses but the computer would not need to handle this if it chose > never to program any DMAs beyond 4GiB. Unfortunately most 32bit PCI devices seem to not have chosen to support 64bit addresses. I guess since most PCs still run 32bit windows there hasn't been much demand. Server grade hardware may have started supporting it sooner since they often use PAE or even 64bit software now. > | Unfortunately, while AMD CPUs with their onboard memory controller also > | included an IOMMU on almost all of the chips (some early ones didn't > | have it as far as I recall), intel did not do the same in their chipsets, > | except for some server chipsets. Hence my Core2Quad + P35 chipset has > | no IOMMU and has to do a softIOMMU using a bounce buffer. > > I wonder why. Intel seems to be really stingy about VT and VT-d > compared with AMD. I guess that Intel can use this to price > differentiate but AMD is kind of desperate for any sale. Intel has volumes enough to justify lots of part variations. Just look at their "Don't use ICH9 in AHCI mode" issue. AMD's volumes are low enough that fewer actual die designs is preferable. > I don't remember any Athlon 64 without an IOMMU. Not that I would > necessarily know. Do you have any more solid information? Well I have an Athlon 64 3500+ under my desk which is one of the early ones that does not support AMD-V and hence has no IOMMU. It is an old socket 939 chip. It only has 1GB of ram though so it never mattered. The other disadvantage that CPU has is that you can not run a 64bit guest in a virtual machine on it in say vmware due to the lack of AMD-V. The Cx, Dx, and Ex spec Athlon 64's don't have AMD-V. The Fx, Gx and newer do. As far as I can tell, no socket 754 or 939 Athlon64 had the IOMMU. I am not entirely convinced that is right though (and it is from wikipedia so who knows). All AM2 chips should have it. On the opteron's, it seems the 1xx doesn't have it, while the 2xx, 8xx, 1xxx, 2xxx and 8xxx all have it. I am pretty sure some of the socket 939 chips had some virtualization support that predates the AMD-V stuff, which allowed at least the 64bit guests to work in vmware, but didn't really do much performance wise. AMD-V apparently is much better. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 18 00:43:00 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:43:00 -0400 Subject: line up for hd tv digital over air Message-ID: <32f6a8880903171743o3c3e3eb3h2276acd561a104b4@mail.gmail.com> Hi guys, Can someone tell me the lineup for HDTV antenna for air in toronto with schedules direct? I think Colin might have told us once. -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 18 06:37:30 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 02:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: poll: problems with MTRRs? In-Reply-To: <20090317180405.GF12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090316153017.GY12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090316222347.GA12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090317141412.GD12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090317180405.GF12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 11:23:39AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > I don't remember any Athlon 64 without an IOMMU. Not that I would | > necessarily know. Do you have any more solid information? | | Well I have an Athlon 64 3500+ under my desk which is one of the early | ones that does not support AMD-V and hence has no IOMMU. It is an old | socket 939 chip. It only has 1GB of ram though so it never mattered. | The other disadvantage that CPU has is that you can not run a 64bit | guest in a virtual machine on it in say vmware due to the lack of AMD-V. | | The Cx, Dx, and Ex spec Athlon 64's don't have AMD-V. The Fx, Gx and | newer do. | | As far as I can tell, no socket 754 or 939 Athlon64 had the IOMMU. I am | not entirely convinced that is right though (and it is from wikipedia | so who knows). All AM2 chips should have it. | | On the opteron's, it seems the 1xx doesn't have it, while the 2xx, 8xx, | 1xxx, 2xxx and 8xxx all have it. | | I am pretty sure some of the socket 939 chips had some virtualization | support that predates the AMD-V stuff, which allowed at least the 64bit | guests to work in vmware, but didn't really do much performance wise. | AMD-V apparently is much better. OK, I was confused. Now I am less confused, but more aware of my confusion. Linux calls the AMD GART an IOMMU (because it is, albeit a limited one). All the AMD 64-bit processors have the GART. Intel CPUs do not. The GART appears to be quite effective in eliminating the need for bounce buffers but not in segregating virtual machines' access to hardware. AMD and Intel both have much fancier IOMMUs as part of the newish support for virtualization. The Intel one (VT-D) requires chipset support. I now think the AMD one probably does as well, but I'm not sure. Anyway, I think that means that few of us have either unless we bought recent server hardware (and that might not be sufficient). The best explanation that I've come across is in section 1 and 2 of: http://developer.amd.com/Assets/IOMMU-ben-yehuda.pdf This paper was presented at OLS in 2006 but the OLS site does not provide the papers as separate files. http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2006/linuxsymposium_procv1.pdf Here's the spec for AMD's IOMMU. Unfortunately (but properly) it does not say where to find implementations: http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/34434.pdf I don't even know how to tell if you have one. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 18 13:17:44 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:17:44 -0400 Subject: line up for hd tv digital over air In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880903171743o3c3e3eb3h2276acd561a104b4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880903171743o3c3e3eb3h2276acd561a104b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 3/17/09, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi guys, > > Can someone tell me the lineup for HDTV antenna for air in toronto > with schedules direct? > > I think Colin might have told us once. For those coming in on this late, Schedules Direct is a not-for-profit organization that provides electronic TV listing data for applications (like Myth TV) that need this data. Schedules Direct buys their data from Tribute Media (this is where most of the $ charged by Schedules Direct goes...). At last check Tribute Media was not offering over the air HDTV listing data for any Toronto postal codes... Any event, a work around is posted on the GTALUG website here: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/MythTV#Schedules_Direct_Issue Colin. > -- > > > > Dave Germiquet > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 18 14:50:31 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:50:31 -0400 Subject: line up for hd tv digital over air In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880903171743o3c3e3eb3h2276acd561a104b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880903180750q2476ba6gd0ea485f7d8b00ac@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Colin. :) On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On 3/17/09, Dave Germiquet wrote: >> Hi guys, >> >> Can someone tell me the lineup for HDTV antenna for air in toronto >> with schedules direct? >> >> I think Colin might have told us once. > > For those coming in on this late, Schedules Direct is a not-for-profit > organization that provides electronic TV listing data for applications > (like Myth TV) that need this data. Schedules Direct buys their data > from Tribute Media (this is where most of the $ charged by Schedules > Direct goes...). At last check Tribute Media was not offering over the > air HDTV listing data for any Toronto postal codes... > > Any event, a work around is posted on the GTALUG website here: > > http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/MythTV#Schedules_Direct_Issue > > Colin. > >> -- >> >> >> >> Dave Germiquet >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 18 17:55:20 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:55:20 -0400 Subject: Disabling favicon errors In-Reply-To: <20090131021034.GA4951-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20090131021034.GA4951@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Ian & William, > > I take a different tack with this problem - I generate a favicon with > "touch" in each web root. ?Apache serves a 0 byte file pretty quickly, > there are no errors to log, and everybody is happy. ?If there is a > favicon in place it is unperturbed, but if it didn't exist it does now. I came across a different approach the other day and thought it was a far better resource usage. Basically, it avoid any IO generation as apache start up fully aware its not supposed to serve any file by the name favicon. The client benefit by receiving a more correct response - no favicon is available. These are the changes one need, just in case one is interested. Redirect 404 /favicon.ico ErrorDocument 404 "No favicon Inform apache to send an error response and not bother looking for the file on the HD. Also, save on the HD activity that would have been generated writing to error.log SetEnvIf Request_URI "^/(favicon\.ico)$" dontlog Prevent logging to access.log With above two changes, favicon generate zero hard disk activity. William > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFJg7MaHQtmiuz+KT8RAjO/AKCScNGPXJd19MpnGawK5x2KE8PUVQCfbAny > lmr0pGOFZIsPidbKUfMDS7I= > =XU3T > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- For a list of all the ways technology has failed to improve the quality of life, please press three. ?Alice Kahn -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 18 20:21:46 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TOC Linux In-Reply-To: References: <44073429.8050404@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Mar 2006, Randy Jonasz wrote: > After looking it over, it appears the greatest hurdle to overcome is the > cost of retraining. I think the study does not effectiveky represent > this. Alas, we live in a windows world and people have become accustomed to > how that OS functions. To teach a whole new skill set to a Sales Rep who > only wants to update his contacts and fire off sales proposals is daunting. > We would have to account for an intial reduction in productivity and > possible lower morale as people reject change. This is not to say that OS > solutions are not viable. But I am finding the greatest objection to > conversion is what I have mentioned. I think this is true to a point however I've seen plenty of examples of non-technical people surviving just fine without MS-Windows and a mouse. 30 years ago it was common for the secretaries in some organisations to use a dumbterm - somehow they survived without a mouse :) I've personally worked with a hundred completely non-technical data entry people who tapped away at dumbterms all day long without complaint (I was a consultant sysadmin on the server). I've also need police officers using an interface to a mainframe system to enter data. The mainframe interface was a tn3270 emulator running on OS/9 Macs. That entire state-wide police department ran that way for 15 or 20 years just fine. There can be resistance but OTOH if proper training is provided a lot of people will just see it as part of their job and get on with it. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 18 20:59:27 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TOC Linux In-Reply-To: References: <44073429.8050404@rogers.com> <44083987.3050705@rogers.com> <1141395590.29194.8.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <87fylzts20.fsf@magma.ca> <50981.207.188.65.194.1141405395.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Mar 2006, Randy Jonasz wrote: > I couldn't agree more! If anything, people can figure out how to sync their > balckberrys with Outlook in a matter of minutes. Trying the same task on > any linux distro is not so straight forward. I'm beginning to see the need > for OSS to polish the design before the desktop arena becomes a viable That is true I think that a big part of the problem is lack of support from the vendor. Linux is not a supported client OS for Blackberry. If it was I would expect the sync to be as easy in Linux as it is in MS-Windows. [1] What OS does RIM user server side? Anyone. > option. On the server side though, I can't understand why anyone would pay > a company, like Microsoft for a proprietary solution. Linux is cheaper, > solid and easier to maintain. Here are some concerns that have been raised: 1) It's difficult to find support staff for Linux As someone who grew up Unix side and knew a lot of Unix admins this came as a bit of a surprise but it was true, at least for a while. The explosion of OSS and Linux server-side caused demand of good sysadmins to completely out strip supply. These days alot of sysadmins have at least a working understanding of Linux. IMHO good sysadmins for any OS are fairly rare but they do tend to hand around user groups (really). 2) It's difficult to get support. Too many companies thought that for some reason it was difficult or impossible to get support for OSS. This actually makes no sense at all but the myth persisted for a long time. If anyone still says this today ask them to spend 1 minute on a Google search. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 18 21:22:57 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:22:57 -0400 Subject: TOC Linux In-Reply-To: References: <44073429.8050404@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090318212257.GG12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 04:21:46PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > I think this is true to a point however I've seen plenty of examples of > non-technical people surviving just fine without MS-Windows and a mouse. > 30 years ago it was common for the secretaries in some organisations to > use a dumbterm - somehow they survived without a mouse :) Wordperfect 5.1 users rarely had a use for a mouse. It didn't really do much useful with one. They seemed quite productive. > I've personally worked with a hundred completely non-technical data entry > people who tapped away at dumbterms all day long without complaint (I was > a consultant sysadmin on the server). > > I've also need police officers using an interface to a mainframe system > to enter data. The mainframe interface was a tn3270 emulator running on > OS/9 Macs. That entire state-wide police department ran that way for 15 > or 20 years just fine. Sounds like a nice reliable and simple system. The dumber all the devices are the better. Keep all the data and applications on one box and you only have one box to secure and maintain. > There can be resistance but OTOH if proper training is provided a lot of > people will just see it as part of their job and get on with it. They might whine about the lack of youtube access. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 18 21:25:37 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 17:25:37 -0400 Subject: TOC Linux In-Reply-To: References: <44073429.8050404@rogers.com> <44083987.3050705@rogers.com> <1141395590.29194.8.camel@spot1.localhost.com> <87fylzts20.fsf@magma.ca> <50981.207.188.65.194.1141405395.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20090318212537.GH12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 04:59:27PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > That is true I think that a big part of the problem is lack of support > from the vendor. Linux is not a supported client OS for Blackberry. If > it was I would expect the sync to be as easy in Linux as it is in > MS-Windows. > > [1] What OS does RIM user server side? Anyone. Linux I believe. Hypocrits. :) > Here are some concerns that have been raised: > > 1) It's difficult to find support staff for Linux > > As someone who grew up Unix side and knew a lot of Unix admins this came > as a bit of a surprise but it was true, at least for a while. You need less of them though. Besides when did IT people loose the ability to learn new things? > The explosion of OSS and Linux server-side caused demand of good > sysadmins to completely out strip supply. These days alot of sysadmins > have at least a working understanding of Linux. > > IMHO good sysadmins for any OS are fairly rare but they do tend to hand > around user groups (really). > > 2) It's difficult to get support. > > Too many companies thought that for some reason it was difficult or > impossible to get support for OSS. This actually makes no sense at all > but the myth persisted for a long time. If anyone still says this today > ask them to spend 1 minute on a Google search. I never found microsoft to be great at providing support either. In fact I have found linux support for my questions generally much easier to get. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 18 22:09:25 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:09:25 -0400 Subject: TOC Linux In-Reply-To: <20090318212257.GG12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <44073429.8050404@rogers.com> <20090318212257.GG12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090318180925.4ab56dbd@teksavvy.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 04:21:46PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > I think this is true to a point however I've seen plenty of examples of > > non-technical people surviving just fine without MS-Windows and a mouse. > > 30 years ago it was common for the secretaries in some organisations to > > use a dumbterm - somehow they survived without a mouse :) > > Wordperfect 5.1 users rarely had a use for a mouse. It didn't really > do much useful with one. They seemed quite productive. > > > I've personally worked with a hundred completely non-technical data entry > > people who tapped away at dumbterms all day long without complaint (I was > > a consultant sysadmin on the server). > > > > I've also need police officers using an interface to a mainframe system > > to enter data. The mainframe interface was a tn3270 emulator running on > > OS/9 Macs. That entire state-wide police department ran that way for 15 > > or 20 years just fine. > > Sounds like a nice reliable and simple system. The dumber all the > devices are the better. Keep all the data and applications on one box > and you only have one box to secure and maintain. > > > There can be resistance but OTOH if proper training is provided a lot of > > people will just see it as part of their job and get on with it. > > They might whine about the lack of youtube access. :) That would be everyone where I work. We do nothing but scan books (lift glass, flip page, drop glass, take picture, etc.), so we watch Surfthechannel and Hulu all night. I really don't think anyone could do the job without it. Back on point, I work with about 30 people who are utterly clueless about anything but Playstation, and they all work on Ubuntu Linux and do their jobs just fine...mostly ;) I get annoyed when I see the 'Linux isn't user friendly' tripe, because most people don't even know what Linux is. As has already been pointed out here, if the application doesn't work or is hard to use, that is not the fault of the operating system. If a user can navigate a menu and use a keyboard, it really doesn't matter what the OS is. If the user can't manage even that, it's no one's fault but their own. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 19 01:38:51 2009 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason A. Spiro) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:38:51 -0400 Subject: Let's share transportation &/or accommodation for FOSSLC Summercamp &/or Linux Symposium Message-ID: Hi all, Do you know anyone coming to FOSSLC Summercamp (in Ottawa in May) or Linux Symposium (in Montreal in July)? If so, let's arrange shared travel from Toronto by car or bus and maybe shared accommodation? (I'm thinking let's rent a dorm room in a youth hostel - it's dirt cheap and more fun than staying in a hotel, since you meet travellers from everywhere.) Please either reply to the tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org list, or to the other recipients. But please do not reply to all. No matter who you reply to, please CC me. -Jason Spiro cell (416) 992-3445 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: FOSSLC Events team Date: Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 5:48 PM Subject: FOSSLC: Upcoming events - March 2009 To: Jason Spiro Hello everyone, We're sending this month's newsletter a little early to let you know about some special events coming up in Ottawa and Toronto, Canada. *Upcoming events:* Google Summer of Code information session [March 31, Toronto] (http://www.fosslc.org/drupal/node/238) Leaders in open source discussion panel [April 2, Ottawa] (http://www.fosslc.org/drupal/node/244) Leaders in open source discussion panel [April 23, Toronto] (http://www.fosslc.org/drupal/node/296) Summercamp 2009 [May 13-15, Ottawa] (http://www.fosslc.org/drupal/summercamp2009) This will be our largest event of the year with 40 speakers over 3 days. This event will present talks covering entrepreneurship, legal and intellectual property, DRM, openness, OSGeo mapping technology, web development, Eclipse, and more. Thank You, [image: FOSSLC Logo] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 19 08:43:16 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 04:43:16 -0400 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?IT360=B0_Conference_=26_Expo=2C_APRIL_8?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=2C_2009=2CTORONTO?= Message-ID: <49C205A4.9040105@teksavvy.com> Hi Is GTALUG having a booth again this year? Or not ? :-) Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 19 11:16:51 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:16:51 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFtUTFVHXTogSVQzNjDCsCBDb25mZXJlbmNlICYgRXhwbywgQVBSSUwgOCwgMjAwOQ==?= =?UTF-8?B?LFRPUk9OVE8=?= In-Reply-To: <49C205A4.9040105-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <49C205A4.9040105@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570903190416w6c4656fdi1370b9bd97dc0278@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 04:43, Meng Cheah wrote: > Hi > > Is GTALUG having a booth again this year? > Or not ? :-) > > Regards > > Meng I was going to go to this, but you have to pay for the tradeshow...don't have that kind of money; why can't the tradeshow still be free?! -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 19 11:35:35 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 07:35:35 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: =?UTF-8?B?SVQzNjDCsCBDb25mZXJlbmNlICYgRXg=?= =?UTF-8?B?cG8sIEFQUklMIDgsIDIwMDksVE9ST05UTw==?= In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570903190416w6c4656fdi1370b9bd97dc0278-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49C205A4.9040105@teksavvy.com> <7c50d3570903190416w6c4656fdi1370b9bd97dc0278@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49C22E07.9030201@teksavvy.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: > I was going to go to this, but you have to pay for the > tradeshow...don't have that kind of money; why can't the tradeshow > still be free?! > Michael Guest Pass from EMC http://www.it360.ca/index.php/emc-s-guest-pass.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 19 16:05:05 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:05:05 -0400 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_=5BTLUG=5D=3A_IT360=B0_Conference_=26_Expo=2C_APRIL_8=2C_2009?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=2CTORONTO?= In-Reply-To: <49C205A4.9040105-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <49C205A4.9040105@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Meng Cheah wrote: > Is GTALUG having a booth again this year? > Or not ? :-) It looks quite likely not; it would be mighty late to be starting to announce it... - The availability of free passes was looking to be evaporating, though perhaps EMC is making that not true, albeit kind of at the last minute. - The relevance of/to Linux seems to have been dwindling as the set of topics kept growing towards other things. - To my mind, the killer question is whether or not it merits our soliciting the fairly large number of volunteers needed to staff a booth for two days. It's not an issue of money; it's the matter of whether this is using volunteer time in a way that is valuable. Personally, I would really rather that we invest that effort on Ontario LinuxFest. I'm only one vote in that, but I wasn't alone in this position when we last talked about this at an executive meeting. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Douglas Adams - "I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 20 12:07:35 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 08:07:35 -0400 Subject: March 24th NewTLUG meeting: DNS Message-ID: <49C38707.7030307@teksavvy.com> Hi I take it that DNS will be the sole focus of the meeting. May I know who is the speaker? Thanks. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 20 17:48:31 2009 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:48:31 -0400 Subject: March 24th NewTLUG meeting: DNS In-Reply-To: <49C38707.7030307-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <49C38707.7030307@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <49C3D6EF.90405@buynet.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > Hi > > I take it that DNS will be the sole focus of the meeting. > May I know who is the speaker? Opps, ...I just got back from vacation and seem to have forgotten how to do this stuff ;-) Speaker is Paul Mora (our host and contact at IBM) ...Paul gives great talks - makes complicated topics easy to understand! Herb Richter... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 20 18:00:57 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:00:57 -0400 Subject: [OT] Brilliant article on news and digital media Message-ID: <20090320140057.3982731d@teksavvy.com> Got this through Michael Geist's blog: http://www.shirky.com/weblog/2009/03/newspapers-and-thinking-the-unthinkable/ -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 20 18:32:00 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 14:32:00 -0400 Subject: wiki front page Message-ID: <1237573921.26622.34.camel@leon> Hi all, We have TLUG speakers and topics lined up for April 14th, 2009 Backups - Robert Brockway and June 9th, 2009 Beginning GIMP - Giles Orr Thank you Giles and Robert for your investment of expertise and time. Both of these topics are anxiously anticipated by the membership. No pressure. The wiki front page is currently out of date. It shows March meetings for both TLUG and NewTLUG that have passed. I would hope to see more attention paid to future meetings, so that Robert and Giles can get the audiences they deserve. Would somebody with some wiki-fu please arrange a way for the front page to update automatically? For an extra merit badge, is it possible to have each scheduled future talk appear on the front page automatically? For example: Upcoming Events: April 7th, 2009 - WestLUG - TBD - TBD April 14th, 2009 - TLUG - Backups - Robert Brockway April 28th, 2009 - NewTLUG - TBD - TBD May 5th, 2009 - WestLUG - TBD - TBD May 12th, 2009 - TLUG - TBD - TBD May 19th, 2009 - NewTLUG - TBD -TBD June 2nd, 2009 - WestLUG - TBD -TBD June 9th, 2009 - TLUG - Beginning GIMP - Giles Orr June 16th, 2009 - NewTLUG - TBD - TBD Ideally the date, topic and speaker will link to the event page. Where events are TBD, a link to the generic event page "Usually first Tuesdays, check email list to confirm" or similar would be great. Or perhaps only display events with speaker and topic confirmed, leaving generic descriptions out of the current events page? Best regards, Richard -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 20 23:13:53 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:13:53 -0400 Subject: March 24th NewTLUG meeting: DNS In-Reply-To: <49C3D6EF.90405-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49C38707.7030307@teksavvy.com> <49C3D6EF.90405@buynet.com> Message-ID: <49C42331.3020502@teksavvy.com> Herb Richter wrote: > Opps, ...I just got back from vacation and seem to have forgotten how > to do this stuff ;-) > > Speaker is Paul Mora (our host and contact at IBM) > > ...Paul gives great talks - makes complicated topics easy to understand! > Thanks, Herb. Hope you had a great time :-) Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 21 14:31:36 2009 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:31:36 -0400 Subject: Lone Coder: Bad Docs or Adventures in Linux RAID-land Message-ID: <1237645896.9880.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Those interested in my RAID sufferings can view my latest column at http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_march_2009.html "The install went well and I starting using OpenSuSE. But as I used it, I noticed a strange behaviour: every few minutes the desktop would lock up for several seconds. Running the "top" command, I saw the disk I/O taking up all the CPU capacity and the RAID 1 process using most of the CPU. What was going on..." KB -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 21 19:38:05 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:38:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Lone Coder: Bad Docs or Adventures in Linux RAID-land In-Reply-To: <1237645896.9880.2.camel-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1237645896.9880.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: | From: Ken Burtch | Those interested in my RAID sufferings can view my latest column at | | http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_march_2009.html You mention a pair of 1.5T drives. I would guess that they are Seagates since until recently that was the only brand of 1.5T drives (I think). The Seagate 1.5T disk drives (in fact all 7200.11 seagate drives) seem to be having problems that have got many owners picking up pitch forks and torches. One of the symptoms that is recurring is that drives drop out of RAID arrays causing them to be rebuilt. A reboot seems to fix the drives. I've been pushing for more useful problem reports but have not succeeded. The grand-daddy of thread on this is at http://forums.seagate.com/stx/board/message?board.id=ata_drives&thread.id=9060 Unfortunately many things are mixed together in this thread. One of the odd things about the Seagate forum is that Seagare techs never post there. There are Seagate admins who know nothing and admit it and there are users. BTW, RAID is not a good solution to the backup problem. Too many disk threats are correlated when the drives are spinning in the same box and run off the same OS/controller/power-supply. Think of fire, lightning, flood, or theft. Oh, and ordinary file deletion, probably the most common problem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 22 03:02:19 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:02:19 -0400 Subject: iostat source of information Message-ID: Hi I am wondering, is iostat performance statistics influenced in any manner by the lvm or filesystem or are they extracted from interaction between the hard disk and operating system via the device drivers? I have noticed something, if I run iostat, it does detect the device instead of the volume. That made me suspect that these statistics are for a device level performance. So, I undertook a bit of googling but can not see an article that explicitly state that. Anyway, I then decided to throw it here just in case one of us may be in the know of where iostat read from. I have looked at the iostat code and it content are from the proc file. But where the operating system collect this information from elude me. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 22 04:39:41 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 00:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TOC Linux In-Reply-To: <20090318180925.4ab56dbd-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <44073429.8050404@rogers.com> <20090318212257.GG12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090318180925.4ab56dbd@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 2009, JoeHill wrote: > I get annoyed when I see the 'Linux isn't user friendly' tripe, because Indeed. In fact the same graphical environment (X-Window with KDE or Gnome for example) is just as readily available on FreeBSD, Solaris or even MS-Windows running Cygwin so it isn't Linux[1] at all :) [1] Even if we use the broader definition of an OS rather than just a kernel. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 22 12:31:08 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 08:31:08 -0400 Subject: Enterprise wifi Message-ID: Dear All, Interested in enterprise-class wifi? I met the folks from Xirrus at Southern California Linux Expo last month and was impressed by a couple of things. First, they provided the wfi at the conference and it was always up and always fast. At a place with over a thousand Linux-folks and seemingly everybody blogging everything. My VPN has never been zippy-er. Nicely done. Second, they had their hardware open for ogling at their booth. Huge geek-cred. Third, they were founded by the same person who founded Xircom, the little red modem / network connector that fit in a PCMCIA port with the awesome industrial design. Fourth, did I mention that they sponsored SoCaLinuxExpo (SCaLE 7x) ? So while this will be a sales seminar, I think that you will find this one interesting if you have a legitimate interest in campus / enterprise wifi / hundreds of concurrent users / etc. And the folks are F/LOSS supporters so they are worthy of our support. Sorry for the short notice. The event is Tuesday 24 March, in London ON. Please contact Xirrus directly with questions or for registration. Best regards, Richard ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Lorna Pierno Date: Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 11:47 AM Subject: Xirrus Wi-Fi Seminar in your area! To: rweait-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Cc: Ashley McLean Hello Richard~ I wanted to let you know that Xirrus will be hosting a FREE Wi-Fi seminar in London, Ontario next week on Marc 24th. I am trying to fill the seats with IT decision makers or anyone responsible for their organizations network infrastructure. ?If you are interested in attending or would like to send out an invitation to your colleagues that may be interested, please pass this on: http://www.xirrus.com/seminars/ there are 3 ways to register: 1)????? Email us at seminars-i2FCrC09qYfQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org 2)????? Online: http://www.xirrus.com/seminars/ 3)????? Call: 229.589.1212 or 1-800-947-7871 Please let me know if you can help me promote this event! Thank you Lorna Pierno Director, Marketing Programs www.xirrus.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 22 17:49:19 2009 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 13:49:19 -0400 Subject: March 24th NewTLUG meeting: DNS - reminder Message-ID: <49C67A1F.9050605@buynet.com> This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held Tues Mar 24th., at the IBM offices 3600 Steeles Ave E. **Important** This meeting is free and all are welcome, however, all attendees will be required to have a security badge. Badges should be prepared in advance. If you plan to attend, please send your name to Paul (off-list at ), preferably by Monday Mar 23rd. ...and please be sure to return badges to the front reception at the end of the session. Thanks: to Paul for helping NewTLUG not only by arranging for a room and hosting our meetings at IBM but also with looking after the badges. Badges: please email Paul Mora to pre-register Date and Time: Tues March 24th, 7-10pm Presenter: Paul Mora Topic: DNS - Domain Name System / Service - What is DNS, and why do we need it - How does name resolution work - How do you register your own domain, and how much does it cost? - Once it's registered, how do you use it? - Basic software choices and configuration - Troubleshooting A demonstration of DNS would follow all the talking. Apr?s-meet: After the meeting some will adjourn to a local coffee shop for continued discussion and general world problem solving. Location: IBM offices 3600 Steeles Ave East, north side of Steeles at Pharmacy/Esna Park (between Victoria Park and Warden) http://maps.google.com/maps?cid=43817841,-79335686,6295209446636492376&q=IBM ...enter at the Esna Park end of the block (west end) Directions: Meet at the front entrance well before 7:00pm (6:30 recommended) to pickup your ID badge. At about 7:00 we'll be escorted to the auditorium. Some provision will be made for anyone arriving a little late. Parking: Free parking is available in the visitor parkade from 6:00pm to 11:00pm. --- Herb Richter Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 22 20:06:45 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:06:45 -0400 Subject: Modifying Open Source Licenses Message-ID: <99a6c38f0903221306i455f3143p164541c83fc2ddc9@mail.gmail.com> Right now I'm incredibly mad and might not be thinking all that clearly. I want to blog on this, something I may yet do, but I think it a topic to put to the community first and seek opinions. (Perhaps it's been discussed somewhere before?) Atomic OS development has suffered for a number of reasons - one of which is that I'd (now - almost -) like to introduce modifications to my license (LGPL) that would almost certainly make it non-free. Anyway, over the last year or so I've noted numerous referrers in my logs that relate to w4r3z or pr0n - certain danger for unwary web users and the reason for products like NoScript. As a programmer with an interest in clean/safe JavaScript I find a deep ethical problem here. I want to preserve the freedoms we have as FOSS developers but at the same time I would like to help prevent grotesque abuses. During a random investigation today I encountered a vile web-space connected to one of the referrers (reporting it as required by law) which brings me to the question: Can open licenses be "reconfigured" to support ethical initiatives against "social diseases" like hate, violence and/or exploitation? -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 22 21:53:08 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 17:53:08 -0400 Subject: Modifying Open Source Licenses In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0903221306i455f3143p164541c83fc2ddc9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903221306i455f3143p164541c83fc2ddc9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1237758788.26622.217.camel@leon> On Sun, 2009-03-22 at 16:06 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Right now I'm incredibly mad and might not be thinking all that > clearly. I want to blog on this, something I may yet do, but I think > it a topic to put to the community first and seek opinions. (Perhaps > it's been discussed somewhere before?) Blog it. But think it over for a few days before publishing. > Atomic OS development has suffered for a number of reasons - one of > which is that I'd (now - almost -) like to introduce modifications to > my license (LGPL) that would almost certainly make it non-free. > > Anyway, over the last year or so I've noted numerous referrers in my > logs that relate to w4r3z or pr0n - certain danger for unwary web > users and the reason for products like NoScript. As a programmer with > an interest in clean/safe JavaScript I find a deep ethical problem > here. I want to preserve the freedoms we have as FOSS developers but > at the same time I would like to help prevent grotesque abuses. > > During a random investigation today I encountered a vile web-space > connected to one of the referrers (reporting it as required by law) > which brings me to the question: Can open licenses be "reconfigured" > to support ethical initiatives against "social diseases" like hate, > violence and/or exploitation? You are free to make your own license. You are free to license your own code as you choose. Only a fool would suggest otherwise. I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying has happened. Are you saying that it appears that not-nice people are using your software in their activities of being not-nice. And are you saying that you don't want to them to use your software for doing not-nice things, and not-nice related things? Freedom Zero - is the right to run the program for any purpose. So restricting use to nice things only, suggests that your new license won't be compatible with Free licenses. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 22 22:20:54 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:20:54 -0400 Subject: Modifying Open Source Licenses In-Reply-To: <1237758788.26622.217.camel@leon> References: <99a6c38f0903221306i455f3143p164541c83fc2ddc9@mail.gmail.com> <1237758788.26622.217.camel@leon> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0903221520l29d815f4td736691f83ad3658@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > Are you saying that it appears that not-nice people are using your > software in their activities of being not-nice. ?And are you saying that > you don't want to them to use your software for doing not-nice things, > and not-nice related things? For the first part I cannot say definitively - only that resources identified by the referring website are "not-nice." For the second, yes. However... > Freedom Zero - is the right to run the program for any purpose. ?So > restricting use to nice things only, suggests that your new license > won't be compatible with Free licenses. For me Freedom Zero has been a fundamental belief for a long time. I have other humanitarian beliefs that I now find in partial conflict and wish to resolve. Anything but easy I know, but that's why I'm asking. Thanks for your thoughts, they're most appreciated. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 22 23:08:55 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:08:55 -0400 Subject: Modifying Open Source Licenses In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0903221306i455f3143p164541c83fc2ddc9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903221306i455f3143p164541c83fc2ddc9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > which brings me to the question: ?Can open licenses be "reconfigured" > to support ethical initiatives against "social diseases" like hate, > violence and/or exploitation? In principle, you might try; in practice, this sort of thing leads to the resulting software becoming a mere "curiosity" in that it's no longer a particularly "free" software license, and nobody ever looks at it again. Back in the days when everyone was boycotting everything in South Africa due to the apartheid thing (I suspect there is now a generation that would give a blank stare if asked about "apartheid South Africa"), there was software where licenses forbade use in South Africa. Nobody wants to get into the verification game. One of the particular values of "free software" is that you don't usually need to go into excruciating detail about how you're planning to use it to validate this against its license. "Reconfiguration against social diseases" breaks that. If you imagine discrimination is evil, then the act of putting a clause in your license that discriminates against users is a contradiction of the imagined principle. Note that in the "Open Source Initiative" (the Eric Raymond thing about declaring what OSS is supposed to be about), this is specifically talked about: ------------------------ 5. No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons. ------------------------ -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Rita Rudner - "Before I met my husband, I'd never fallen in love. I'd stepped in it a few times." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 03:46:28 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 03:46:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: a near realtime map of blocked or 'disappeared' websites Message-ID: http://www.herdict.org/web/ Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 04:39:39 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 04:39:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Canadian VOIP providers Message-ID: In your (collective) opinion, is the VOIP links list linked below somewhat up to date or rather worthless ? I do not have the time to check all the links. Any remarks/pro/contra etc are very welcome. http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+Canadian+Users tia, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 11:16:50 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 04:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Canadian VOIP providers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <421815.35293.qm@web59508.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I can't answer your question. All I can say is, I wish I had found that link before going with Igonet. Igonet has been good for us, except that it is American. All our calls go to the USA and rerouted back to Canada. When I did my search almost 4 1/2 yrs ago. Igonet was the best choice. Best price, best service, all inclusive, no nickel and diming. Just one price for North America. Service has gotten better over the years too. Abidel ________________________________ From: Peter To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 12:39:39 AM Subject: [TLUG]: re: Canadian VOIP providers In your (collective) opinion, is the VOIP links list linked below somewhat up to date or rather worthless ? I do not have the time to check all the links. Any remarks/pro/contra etc are very welcome. http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+Canadian+Users tia, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 11:18:40 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 07:18:40 -0400 Subject: Canadian VOIP providers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49C77010.2060105@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > In your (collective) opinion, is the VOIP links list linked below somewhat up to > date or rather worthless ? I do not have the time to check all the links. Any > remarks/pro/contra etc are very welcome. > > http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+Canadian+Users > > You've missed at least a couple of hardware manufactures. A couple that my employer sells are "Talkswitch", based in Ottawa and "Adtran", based in Huntsville Alabama. Talkswitch makes a VoIP PBX, suitable for small business or even some homes. They also have a range of phones. As for providers, Rogers is one, though they supply the terminal adapter, so that you can just plug in your old phones. The list of those you missed is probably much longer than the one you provided. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 14:43:23 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:43:23 -0400 Subject: Modifying Open Source Licenses In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0903221306i455f3143p164541c83fc2ddc9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0903230743i15edb918r5e835c249972ef3a@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: [...] > Note that in the "Open Source Initiative" (the Eric Raymond thing > about declaring what OSS is supposed to be about), this is > specifically talked about: > > ------------------------ > 5. No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups > > The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons. > ------------------------ Thanks for the additional clarification. I'm going to take Richard's advice and sit on it for a few days. After calming down a bit I notice that the issue is probably about as old as mankind. After all, how many innocuous inventions have been subverted throughout history? On an interestingly related note, it appears that RMS posted an article (last night?) specifically about licensing JavaScript code. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html (One of the TiddlyWiki developers tipped off Ajaxian where I heard about it under the name "Free The JavaScript.") -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 14:55:57 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 10:55:57 -0400 Subject: [OT] UPS Advice Please Message-ID: <49C7A2FD.8050909@rogers.com> My UPS started acting flaky so I am looking to replace it. I would appreciate advice on what I should get. I have three desktop systems, with power supplies of 650w, 400w and 350w. I also want to run through the UPS my cable modem, router and bridge. Maybe the monitor. Should I be looking at one, big, UPS or a number of smaller ones? How powerful? Where is a good place to buy? (In GTA) Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 15:01:07 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:01:07 -0400 Subject: [OT] UPS Advice Please In-Reply-To: <49C7A2FD.8050909-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49C7A2FD.8050909@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090323150106.GJ12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:55:57AM -0400, Stephen wrote: > My UPS started acting flaky so I am looking to replace it. > > I would appreciate advice on what I should get. > > I have three desktop systems, with power supplies of 650w, 400w and 350w. > > I also want to run through the UPS my cable modem, router and bridge. > Maybe the monitor. > > Should I be looking at one, big, UPS or a number of smaller ones? > > How powerful? > > Where is a good place to buy? (In GTA) Well you just missed the APC SmartUPS 1500 that Dell had on a 1 day sale last week for $200. Without a doubt the best deal you can find on a UPS. It seems to happen every few months. I don't think anything less would handle 3 systems. I think they usually sell for around $500 or so. I have one and run my quad core mythtv box, the 27" CRT TV, the cable modem, router, switch, cable box, and cable amp from it. With the TV off I get close to an hour run time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 15:05:21 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:05:21 -0400 Subject: Modifying Open Source Licenses In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0903230743i15edb918r5e835c249972ef3a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903221306i455f3143p164541c83fc2ddc9@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0903230743i15edb918r5e835c249972ef3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090323150521.GK12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:43:23AM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Thanks for the additional clarification. I'm going to take Richard's > advice and sit on it for a few days. After calming down a bit I > notice that the issue is probably about as old as mankind. After all, > how many innocuous inventions have been subverted throughout history? So is gun powder good or bad? Do you like fireworks? How about bullets? It becomes very hard to draw a line in the grey fog of reality. Are nuclear technologies bad? Could make bombs or you could be making radioactive isotopes for medical use. > On an interestingly related note, it appears that RMS posted an > article (last night?) specifically about licensing JavaScript code. > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html > > (One of the TiddlyWiki developers tipped off Ajaxian where I heard > about it under the name "Free The JavaScript.") -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 15:39:05 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 11:39:05 -0400 Subject: [OT] UPS Advice Please In-Reply-To: <49C7A2FD.8050909-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49C7A2FD.8050909@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49C7AD19.2040706@telly.org> Stephen wrote: > My UPS started acting flaky so I am looking to replace it. > > I would appreciate advice on what I should get. > > I have three desktop systems, with power supplies of 650w, 400w and 350w. > > I also want to run through the UPS my cable modem, router and bridge. > Maybe the monitor. > > Should I be looking at one, big, UPS or a number of smaller ones? > > How powerful? > > Where is a good place to buy? (In GTA) During the past Christmas holidays I had a battery failure in my old trusty APC SmartUPS-800. I found that since I last shopped, the market has split into "consumer" and "business" units. The former now use USB for any alerting of an attached PC and have generally been cheaper than what they replace (APC's newer "backUPS" systems have as much useful signalling as the more-expensive SmartUPS line). I took advantage of a boxing day sale at FutureShop to get an APC BackUPS XS 1300. To power all your systems you'll need closer to 2000 VA or more. But it looks like the current upper limit on "consumer" UPSs is at about 1500VA. So your choice is to get multiple commodity units or one of the heavy-duty network-capable ones. One option worth considering is getting two systems of 1200VA each one for two of the systems, and the second for the third PC and networking equipment. That may actually be cheaper than getting a single 2000 VA system. As for where to buy, there are the usual suspects -- TigerDirect, Canada Computers, NewEgg and the Spadina/College ghetto as well as FutureShop or BestBuy. HTH, - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 16:14:01 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:14:01 -0400 Subject: Lone Coder: Bad Docs or Adventures in Linux RAID-land In-Reply-To: References: <1237645896.9880.2.camel@rosette.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <20090323161401.GL12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 03:38:05PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Ken Burtch > > | Those interested in my RAID sufferings can view my latest column at > | > | http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_march_2009.html > > You mention a pair of 1.5T drives. I would guess that they are > Seagates since until recently that was the only brand of 1.5T drives > (I think). > > The Seagate 1.5T disk drives (in fact all 7200.11 seagate drives) seem > to be having problems that have got many owners picking up pitch forks > and torches. > > One of the symptoms that is recurring is that drives drop out of RAID > arrays causing them to be rebuilt. A reboot seems to fix the drives. > > I've been pushing for more useful problem reports but have not > succeeded. > > The grand-daddy of thread on this is at > http://forums.seagate.com/stx/board/message?board.id=ata_drives&thread.id=9060 > Unfortunately many things are mixed together in this thread. > > One of the odd things about the Seagate forum is that Seagare techs > never post there. There are Seagate admins who know nothing and admit > it and there are users. Yeah pauses for a short while and other issues certainly sound a lot like the reported problems with the seagate drives. I am sure happy I don't own any seagate drives (from the last decade at least). I took them off my list when their first SATA drives had errors that made them incompatible with some SATA contrrollers because seagate misunderstood some part of the spec that everyone else got right. Seems like firmware has been hard for them to get right for a long time. > BTW, RAID is not a good solution to the backup problem. Too many disk > threats are correlated when the drives are spinning in the same box > and run off the same OS/controller/power-supply. Think of fire, > lightning, flood, or theft. Oh, and ordinary file deletion, probably > the most common problem. Yeah, raid is to protect against drive failures. Backups are to protect against everything else. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 16:39:48 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:39:48 -0400 Subject: [OT] UPS Advice Please In-Reply-To: <20090323150106.GJ12788-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49C7A2FD.8050909@rogers.com> <20090323150106.GJ12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49C7BB54.7030801@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:55:57AM -0400, Stephen wrote: > >> My UPS started acting flaky so I am looking to replace it. >> >> I would appreciate advice on what I should get. >> >> I have three desktop systems, with power supplies of 650w, 400w and 350w. >> >> I also want to run through the UPS my cable modem, router and bridge. >> Maybe the monitor. >> >> Should I be looking at one, big, UPS or a number of smaller ones? >> >> How powerful? >> >> Where is a good place to buy? (In GTA) >> > > Well you just missed the APC SmartUPS 1500 that Dell had on a 1 day sale > last week for $200. Without a doubt the best deal you can find on a UPS. > It seems to happen every few months. I don't think anything less would > handle 3 systems. I think they usually sell for around $500 or so. > > I have one and run my quad core mythtv box, the 27" CRT TV, the cable > modem, router, switch, cable box, and cable amp from it. With the TV > off I get close to an hour run time. > > I see Dell has them for $299 today with free shipping. Still pretty good. Tiger Direct is $360 plus shipping. I am leaning towards placing an order. But I wonder if I would be better getting a couple of smaller units, instead. Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 17:12:34 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:12:34 -0400 Subject: [OT] UPS Advice Please In-Reply-To: <49C7BB54.7030801-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49C7A2FD.8050909@rogers.com> <20090323150106.GJ12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49C7BB54.7030801@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090323171233.GM12788@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 12:39:48PM -0400, Stephen wrote: > I see Dell has them for $299 today with free shipping. Still pretty > good. Tiger Direct is $360 plus shipping. It weighs 60 pounds. I don't want to know what shipping costs. > I am leaning towards placing an order. > > But I wonder if I would be better getting a couple of smaller units, > instead. The smaller units are generally nothing like the larger ones. The smartups 1500 is the largest thing you can run on a 15A outlet and probably the most advanced UPS you can get in that size. The run time is very good (the thing has a huge battery, cooling fans, etc) and simply works great with linux. Even at $299 it's still quite good. The $200 deals they offer at times is just too good to pass up. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 18:14:39 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Canadian VOIP providers In-Reply-To: <49C77010.2060105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49C77010.2060105@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | As for | providers, Rogers is one, though they supply the terminal adapter, so | that you can just plug in your old phones. I'm not sure that I'd call Rogers a VoIP TSP. True, they use VoIP to implement their Home Phone, but the IP is over a private network. A customer cannot access that network except through their terminals, and then only for POTs service, not IP, and not to access another TSP. At least that is what I understand. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 19:37:28 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:37:28 -0400 Subject: Canadian VOIP providers In-Reply-To: References: <49C77010.2060105@rogers.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880903231237t71e60e28xb93c7bab7f0c5b26@mail.gmail.com> There's also www.acanac.ca www.vbuzzer.com www.freephoneline.ca On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 2:14 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: James Knott > > | ? As for > | providers, Rogers is one, though they supply the terminal adapter, so > | that you can just plug in your old phones. > > I'm not sure that I'd call Rogers a VoIP TSP. ?True, they use VoIP to > implement their Home Phone, but the IP is over a private network. ?A > customer cannot access that network except through their terminals, > and then only for POTs service, not IP, and not to access another TSP. > At least that is what I understand. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 23 20:48:59 2009 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:48:59 -0400 Subject: iostat source of information In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090323204859.GB45310@shell.vex.net> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 11:02:19PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Hi > > I am wondering, is iostat performance statistics influenced in any > manner by the lvm or filesystem or are they extracted from interaction > between the hard disk and operating system via the device drivers? I > have noticed something, if I run iostat, it does detect the device > instead of the volume. That made me suspect that these statistics are > for a device level performance. So, I undertook a bit of googling but > can not see an article that explicitly state that. iostat reports separately for base block devices and partitions as well as LVM and software RAID that use the device mapper, so you should be seeing all of them. If you sum the Blk_read and Blk_wrtn counters for your dm-N disks, they should approximate the counters for their base partition/device. They may differ due to request merging. > > Anyway, I then decided to throw it here just in case one of us may be > in the know of where iostat read from. I have looked at the iostat > code and it content are from the proc file. But where the operating > system collect this information from elude me. > Using cscope with recent kernels lets you find interesting stuff (here looking at 2.6.28), such as: The data for /proc/diskstats is generated by diskstats_show() in block/genhd.c, and that for /sys/block//stat by part_stat_show() in fs/partitions/check.c . The counters themselves are updated in block/blk-core.c: part_round_stats_single() time_in_queue, io_ticks block/blk-core.c: drive_stat_acct() merges drivers/block/aoe/aoecmd.c: diskstats() ios, ticks, sectors, io_ticks drivers/md/dm.c: start_io_acct()/end_io_acct() in_flight include/linux/genhd.h: part_inc_in_flight/part_dec_in_flight and documented in Documentation/block/stat.txt . -sgh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 24 00:34:50 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:34:50 -0400 Subject: Comments on another CRTC draft submission In-Reply-To: <20090309070041.GA16310-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20090309070041.GA16310@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20090324003450.GA16010@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 03:00:41AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote > Comments appreciated, and if you "fined a knee type owes", plese let me > know. I've temporarily put it up in my webspace at > http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/crtc.txt There's no webpage per > se, but the direct link works. I have a "release candidate" draft up at the above URL. The deadline is March 27th. While we're at it, on a slightly different topic, I have a draft of a reply to http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2009/2009-113.htm in my webspace at http://clients.teksavvy.com/~walterdnes/crtc1.txt The deadline for this one is March 30th. It is a suggestion for placing multiple SDTV channels on DTV repeaters in smaller markets. I realize that SDTV sucks after you've seen HDTV, but no OTA TV sucks even more. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 24 06:24:57 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: heaven save us from too smart programs (evince) Message-ID: If you type "evince x.pdf" into a shell, it does what I'd expect: display the file and, when the user dismisses the display, the evince program terminates and the next shell prompt appears. Do the same again, but don't stop the display. In another shell, evince something else. That second evince command will exit immediately, after passing the request to the first evince. The second file will be displayed but the second command will have quit early. Another surprise: if the first file display is dismissed, one would expect the first evince command to terminate. It does not do so until all evince windows (including those for other commands) are dismissed. These are manifestations of an optimization. Optimizations should not produce surprising and undocumented effects but this one does. Why do I know this? Because Firefox really screws up .pdf displays for me. If I already have evince running for some reason (say, because firefox is showing me another .pdf) and I try to get firefox to show me a .pdf, it will create an undecorated window with the display. This window is out of control: I cannot move it or close it (except by using the File drop down menu which sometimes is off-screen). evince's behaviour is confusing mozplugger. More magic. https://www.mozdev.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=20686 Oh, Firefox isn't innocent: it has a similar optimziation which even reaches across a networked X connection to use a local running firefox even if the command was issued on the far side. Result: files local to the other machine cannot be viewed. At least firefox has a flag to suppress this. This evince optimization has eaten several hours of my time. All that diagnosing time has not actually yielded a technique to fix the problem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 24 13:52:57 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:52:57 -0400 Subject: Ask.com and Firefox Message-ID: <49C8E5B9.9000708@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've found something odd... I've repeatedly removed 'Ask.com' from my firefox search options. It keeps coming back though. WTH?! Anyone else noticed this? Any idea why? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From contact-uc+NVM1kvX9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 24 18:45:03 2009 From: contact-uc+NVM1kvX9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (I. Khider) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:45:03 -0400 Subject: Canadian VOIP providers In-Reply-To: <49C77010.2060105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49C77010.2060105@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1237920303.3954.2.camel@khider.homenetwork> Hello, I am not sure if these people are on the list but they should be: Aquarius Telecom http://www.aquariustel.com/ They are reasonable and reliable. -I- On Mon, 2009-03-23 at 07:18 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Peter wrote: > > In your (collective) opinion, is the VOIP links list linked below somewhat up to > > date or rather worthless ? I do not have the time to check all the links. Any > > remarks/pro/contra etc are very welcome. > > > > http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+Canadian+Users > > > > > > You've missed at least a couple of hardware manufactures. A couple that > my employer sells are "Talkswitch", based in Ottawa and "Adtran", based > in Huntsville Alabama. Talkswitch makes a VoIP PBX, suitable for small > business or even some homes. They also have a range of phones. As for > providers, Rogers is one, though they supply the terminal adapter, so > that you can just plug in your old phones. > > The list of those you missed is probably much longer than the one you > provided. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 24 14:49:35 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:49:35 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! Message-ID: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> Augusta Ada King, Countess of Lovelace was born on 10th December 1815, the only child of Lord Byron and his wife, Annabella. Born Augusta Ada Byron, but now known simply as Ada Lovelace, she wrote the world?s first computer programmes for the Analytical Engine, a general-purpose machine that Charles Babbage had invented. http://findingada.com/ -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 24 18:46:07 2009 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:46:07 -0400 Subject: Ask.com and Firefox In-Reply-To: <49C8E5B9.9000708-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49C8E5B9.9000708@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49C92A6F.2060601@primus.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > I've repeatedly removed 'Ask.com' from my Firefox search options. > It keeps coming back, though. I can't duplicate your problem. If I pull down the Search Engines list (at the right of the Location bar), choose Manage Search Engines... (at the bottom of the list), select Ask.com > click Remove > OK, then it's removed from the list. When I close and restart Firefox, Ask.com does not come back. I'm running Firefox 3.0.7 on Ubuntu 8.04. Ask.com - and their Toolbar especially - have caused removal problems in the past for Linux and Windows users alike. Some consider it to be foistware. Formerly, users had to go to Firefox's searchplugins sub- directory (in Windows, C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\searchplugins), and delete both the Ask icon file and the Ask xml file. On my setup, if I go to /usr/lib/firefox-addons/searchplugins, I see only xml files (plus debsearch.gif and debsearch.src). YMMV. You're comfortable with power tools so you may alternatively want to employ about:config ...carefully, if you search for ask. What Firefox version are you using? Did you ever install the Ask.com Toolbar? This can happen inadvertently when installing other things, hence the foistware rap, and can complicate matters. . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 24 18:52:49 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:52:49 -0400 Subject: Ask.com and Firefox In-Reply-To: <49C92A6F.2060601-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <49C8E5B9.9000708@alteeve.com> <49C92A6F.2060601@primus.ca> Message-ID: <49C92C01.5030302@alteeve.com> George Nicol wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: > >> I've repeatedly removed 'Ask.com' from my Firefox search options. >> It keeps coming back, though. > > I can't duplicate your problem. If I pull down the Search Engines list > (at the right of the Location bar), choose Manage Search Engines... > (at the bottom of the list), select Ask.com > click Remove > OK, then > it's removed from the list. When I close and restart Firefox, Ask.com > does not come back. I'm running Firefox 3.0.7 on Ubuntu 8.04. > > Ask.com - and their Toolbar especially - have caused removal problems > in the past for Linux and Windows users alike. Some consider it to be > foistware. Formerly, users had to go to Firefox's searchplugins sub- > directory (in Windows, C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\searchplugins), > and delete both the Ask icon file and the Ask xml file. On my setup, > if I go to /usr/lib/firefox-addons/searchplugins, I see only xml files > (plus debsearch.gif and debsearch.src). YMMV. > > You're comfortable with power tools so you may alternatively want to > employ about:config ...carefully, if you search for ask. > > What Firefox version are you using? Did you ever install the Ask.com > Toolbar? This can happen inadvertently when installing other things, > hence the foistware rap, and can complicate matters. Firefox 3.0.7 on Ubuntu 8.10. It's not so obvious as to come back right away. It seems to come back after a period of time... Perhaps when Firefox updates? I'll have to pay attention when future updates occur. Thanks for the feedback. "Foistware" is a new one on me, and seems appropriate. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 24 19:54:38 2009 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:54:38 -0400 Subject: Ask.com and Firefox In-Reply-To: <49C92C01.5030302-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49C8E5B9.9000708@alteeve.com> <49C92A6F.2060601@primus.ca> <49C92C01.5030302@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49C93A7E.5080104@primus.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > It's not so obvious as to come back right away. It seems to > come back after a period of time. Perhaps when Firefox updates? Seems likely. Maybe I *will* be able to duplicate the problem. > "Foistware" is a new one on me, and seems appropriate. Foistware / Bundleware / Shovelware is software bundled with completely unrelated programs. A while back, I updated the RealPlayer stuff (yuck) on a Windows box and received more than I bargained for. AVG anti-virus quarantined one of the secretly bundled extras and hollered, "Virus!" Browser Toolbars of all kinds are commonly installed this way. Somebody's got to pay for their version of free, right? . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 24 21:00:06 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:00:06 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > but now known simply as Ada Lovelace Any relation to Linda? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 24 21:08:31 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:08:31 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <49C949D6.1060400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> On Tue, 2009-03-24 at 17:00 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Scott Elcomb wrote: > > but now known simply as Ada Lovelace > > Any relation to Linda? ;-) No relation. Ada blows Linda away. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 24 22:37:48 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:37:48 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> Message-ID: <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> Richard Weait wrote: > On Tue, 2009-03-24 at 17:00 -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Scott Elcomb wrote: >> >>> but now known simply as Ada Lovelace >>> >> Any relation to Linda? ;-) >> > > No relation. Ada blows Linda away. > Has Linda been given the chance to return the favour? - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 01:18:11 2009 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:18:11 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <49C960BC.3040000-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> I am not without a sense of humour. However, I find this thread to be sexist and misogynistic. Ada Lovelace deserves a place beside Boole and Babbage as the original pioneers of what would eventually become computer science (there are those who believe she understood Babbage's work better than he did). To demean that memory by a cheap rif on a name shared with a porn star is, well, let's just go with disappointing. It's no wonder that people at large still look on computer geeks as frat boys, or that young women mostly see no respectful place for themselves in computer science. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 01:49:47 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:49:47 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <20090325011811.61323854F0-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <49C98DBB.4020202@dinamis.com> Dave Mason wrote: > I am not without a sense of humour. > > However, I find this thread to be sexist and misogynistic. > > Ada Lovelace deserves a place beside Boole and Babbage as the original > pioneers of what would eventually become computer science (there are > those who believe she understood Babbage's work better than he did). To > demean that memory by a cheap rif on a name shared with a porn star is, > well, let's just go with disappointing. > > It's no wonder that people at large still look on computer geeks as frat > boys, or that young women mostly see no respectful place for themselves > in computer science. Dave, kudos to you for saying what I had been thinking. I would not be quite so harsh with Linda Lovelace though. I read her story many years ago. She was apparently a victim of an abusive man who exploited and coerced her into doing things that she normally wouldn't have done. Unfortunately, it's not exactly a unique story. The Wikipedia page about her has more information. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 01:55:17 2009 From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen Thornton) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:55:17 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <20090325011811.61323854F0-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1237946117.9468.33.camel@bliss.ss.org> Were both women not pioneers in their field. They also both worked with equipment that was not quite functional. Maureen On Tue, 2009-03-24 at 21:18 -0400, Dave Mason wrote: > I am not without a sense of humour. > > However, I find this thread to be sexist and misogynistic. > > Ada Lovelace deserves a place beside Boole and Babbage as the original > pioneers of what would eventually become computer science (there are > those who believe she understood Babbage's work better than he did). To > demean that memory by a cheap rif on a name shared with a porn star is, > well, let's just go with disappointing. > > It's no wonder that people at large still look on computer geeks as frat > boys, or that young women mostly see no respectful place for themselves > in computer science. > > ../Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 02:14:12 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:14:12 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > On Tue, 2009-03-24 at 17:00 -0400, James Knott wrote: >> Scott Elcomb wrote: >> > but now known simply as Ada Lovelace >> >> Any relation to Linda? ?;-) > > No relation. ?Ada blows Linda away. Oh no you didn't! > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 02:46:03 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:46:03 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> Message-ID: <49C99AEB.5070005@utoronto.ca> Thomas Milne wrote: > On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Richard Weait wrote: >> On Tue, 2009-03-24 at 17:00 -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> Scott Elcomb wrote: >>>> but now known simply as Ada Lovelace >>> Any relation to Linda? ;-) >> No relation. Ada blows Linda away. > > Oh no you didn't! Y'all are dating yourselves. I had to use a search engine to figure out wth was going on in this thread :p Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 03:15:13 2009 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:15:13 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <49C99AEB.5070005-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C99AEB.5070005@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Jamon Camisso wrote: > Thomas Milne wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Richard Weait wrote: >>> On Tue, 2009-03-24 at 17:00 -0400, James Knott wrote: >>>> Scott Elcomb wrote: >>>>> but now known simply as Ada Lovelace >>>> Any relation to Linda? ;-) >>> No relation. Ada blows Linda away. >> >> Oh no you didn't! > > Y'all are dating yourselves. I had to use a search engine to figure out > wth was going on in this thread :p obXKCD: That's what she said. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 05:44:39 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:44:39 -0400 Subject: Ask.com and Firefox In-Reply-To: <49C92C01.5030302-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49C8E5B9.9000708@alteeve.com> <49C92A6F.2060601@primus.ca> <49C92C01.5030302@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090325054439.GA18592@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 02:52:49PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote >> What Firefox version are you using? Did you ever install the Ask.com >> Toolbar? This can happen inadvertently when installing other things, >> hence the foistware rap, and can complicate matters. > > Firefox 3.0.7 on Ubuntu 8.10. > > It's not so obvious as to come back right away. It seems to come > back after a period of time... Perhaps when Firefox updates? I'll > have to pay attention when future updates occur. http://itechlog.com/windows/2009/03/09/remove-askcom-toolbar-on-firefox-ie/ has an item about removing this toolbar from both IE and Firefox. Here are the Firefox instructions to change the default search from Ask.com to Google.com. * From Firefox 1. On the address bar type about:config (you will get a warning, be carefull this is the regedit equivalent on Firefox) 2. Change the setting - keyword.URL; - from ask.com to http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&q= 3. Change the setting - browser.search.defaulturl - from ask.com to http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&q= 4. change the settings - extension.snipit.chromeURL - from ask.com to http://www.google.com/search?&q={searchTerms} 5. restart Firefox -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 07:02:41 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 03:02:41 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <20090325011811.61323854F0-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> Dave Mason wrote: > I am not without a sense of humour. > > However, I find this thread to be sexist and misogynistic. > While I understand the sentiment and apologize for any perceived offence, going from one extreme to the other is not helpful either. Calling the thread "misogynistic" is more than a bit much. Such an allegation is serious and should not be tossed around as a result of something as lightweight as a joke based on an unfortunate sharing of last names. To suggest that such comments "demean the memory" is to ascribe motives and intent that may not (and in my case certainly did not) exist. Such projection should be no more welcome than the hurt it pretends to address. > Ada Lovelace deserves a place beside Boole and Babbage as the original pioneers of what would eventually become computer science (there are those who believe she understood Babbage's work better than he did). To demean that memory by a cheap rif on a name shared with a porn star is, well, let's just go with disappointing. > Disappointing? Fine. Irreverant? Most certainly. Outrageously irreverant? Maybe. Offensive? Perhaps. Misogynistic and sexist? Well, let's just say that I was disappointed with the disproportionate nature of the response. > It's no wonder that people at large still look on computer geeks as frat boys, or that young women mostly see no respectful place for themselves in computer science. > Talk about cheap shots.... Were the reasons for the lack of women in CS attributable to excuses so simple as fratboy humour, there would also be no female doctors. The idea of naming a day after a CS hero is also, arguably, an example of the mindset that might keep people of certain temperment away from this field. Or maybe it's the observation that vendor-trained sysadmins have the gall to call themselves "engineers" with the industry's blessing. Or the lack of ethical accountability that is demanded in "real" professions. Or the outrageous misuse of patent protection masquerading as innovation. Well, those other assertions are no less plausible than the fratboy one. These days CS folks (even you used the term "geek", which is rarely a term of affection when used by non-geeks) are the brunt of more jokes than the source of them. There's even a prime-time US network sitcom that focuses on geek culture as a source of ridicule, especially gender issues about which the culture is portrayed as more pathetic than hostile. Is that worth getting lathered up over as well? Lighten up. Please. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 12:36:28 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 08:36:28 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <1237946117.9468.33.camel-Cc8bTzyuDCFg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <1237946117.9468.33.camel@bliss.ss.org> Message-ID: <20090325083628.11c22842@teksavvy.com> Maureen Thornton wrote: > Were both women not pioneers in their field. They also both worked with > equipment that was not quite functional. Oh, snap! :-) -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 12:45:56 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 08:45:56 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <49C98DBB.4020202-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C98DBB.4020202@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20090325084556.63531fa8@teksavvy.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Dave Mason wrote: > > I am not without a sense of humour. > > > > However, I find this thread to be sexist and misogynistic. > > > > Ada Lovelace deserves a place beside Boole and Babbage as the original > > pioneers of what would eventually become computer science (there are > > those who believe she understood Babbage's work better than he did). To > > demean that memory by a cheap rif on a name shared with a porn star is, > > well, let's just go with disappointing. > > > > It's no wonder that people at large still look on computer geeks as frat > > boys, or that young women mostly see no respectful place for themselves > > in computer science. > > Dave, kudos to you for saying what I had been thinking. I would not be > quite so harsh with Linda Lovelace though. I read her story many years > ago. She was apparently a victim of an abusive man who exploited and > coerced her into doing things that she normally wouldn't have done. > Unfortunately, it's not exactly a unique story. The Wikipedia page about > her has more information. I find both of you have no sense of humour, and sentence you both to be hung by the neck until you cheer up. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 13:24:44 2009 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <49C9D711.2020704-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> Message-ID: <7169.99.253.254.243.1237987484.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Dave Mason wrote: >> I am not without a sense of humour. >> >> However, I find this thread to be sexist and misogynistic. >> > While I understand the sentiment and apologize for any perceived > offence, going from one extreme to the other is not helpful either. I'm with Dave on this one. I thought the comments were tasteless and sophomoric, and they play into the image of geeks as clueless. OK as Beer Talk with the guys, but not on a public email list. P. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 13:34:29 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 09:34:29 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <49C9D711.2020704-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090325133429.GA3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 03:02:41AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Talk about cheap shots.... > > Were the reasons for the lack of women in CS attributable to excuses so > simple as fratboy humour, there would also be no female doctors. Actually doctor's have to deal with people and hence probably have to have some social skills which just might mean that women won't be quite as offended being around the male variety. The CS people mainly have to deal with other CS people and hence might get away with bad social skills. This really offends most women, so they go do something else. So yes a lot can be attributed to something that simple. A lot of CS/IT is also very competitive rather than cooperative. This also doesn't help the situation. > The idea of naming a day after a CS hero is also, arguably, an example > of the mindset that might keep people of certain temperment away from > this field. Or maybe it's the observation that vendor-trained sysadmins > have the gall to call themselves "engineers" with the industry's > blessing. Or the lack of ethical accountability that is demanded in > "real" professions. Or the outrageous misuse of patent protection > masquerading as innovation. Well, those other assertions are no less > plausible than the fratboy one. Anything containing "certified engineer" has no value to me in the IT world. > These days CS folks (even you used the term "geek", which is rarely a > term of affection when used by non-geeks) are the brunt of more jokes > than the source of them. There's even a prime-time US network sitcom > that focuses on geek culture as a source of ridicule, especially gender > issues about which the culture is portrayed as more pathetic than > hostile. Is that worth getting lathered up over as well? I don't think I watch any of those. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 14:14:57 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:14:57 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <20090325133429.GA3796-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> <20090325133429.GA3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49CA3C61.4020506@ualberta.ca> On 25/03/09 09:34 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The CS people mainly have to deal with other CS people and hence might > get away with bad social skills. This really offends most women, so > they go do something else. Has it occurred to you that maybe [most] women just aren't as interested in the subject matter as men? Sure, it's intimidating that CS is fully of geeky men (even for some men!).. do you really think you can make the generalization that women avoid it because of people within are socially inept? I've been through CS and had female friends that have been through it as well as some through engineering. What I can say is sometimes it was pretty awkward for them, yes.. and I wouldn't have wanted to be in their position at times. But please don't imply that this environment would stop them from following their career. I'm with Dave and Peter on this one; even after their requests to end this nonsense people are still following up the thread with juvenile follow-up jokes. There was a lot of this at the last meeting.. so much that it took Colin about two times what it would normally take anybody to give that talk. I was quite amazed. I'm not without a sense of humor either; I appreciate and contribute my fair share of geek humor when it's appropriate .. but there are 600 or so people on this list, most of whom I'm sure would rather talk about Linux-related subjects than exchange geeky jokes. So can we please bury this? Marc -- If builders built houses the way programmers built programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization. -- Gerald P. Weinberg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 17:07:13 2009 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:07:13 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <49C9D711.2020704-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090325170713.95C5A854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> I wrote: > However, I find this thread to be sexist and misogynistic. The key word there is "I". It provides a data point. And apparently I am not alone. More data points. I've been teaching Computer Science at University for 28 years. Throughout most of that time I have worked actively to promote and encourage female students, as have many faculty across the continent and Europe. Despite those efforts, the number of women in undergraduate computer science has stuck resolutely between 1 in 5 and 1 in 8 for most of that time. I have spoken with scores of women students over that time - the women who have pushed the envelope to pursue a career in computer science. I haven't heard a single one of them identify any of: - The idea of naming a day after a CS hero - vendor-trained sysadmins having the gall to call themselves "engineers" with the industry's blessing - the lack of ethical accountability that is demanded in "real" professions - the outrageous misuse of patent protection masquerading as innovation. (although I personally think the latter 3 of those are reprehensible). No, every one of them referred to "the fratboy one", or related stereotypes (individual work, working with machines not people). So in my mind, that's a pretty plausible reason. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 17:29:24 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:29:24 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <20090325084556.63531fa8-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C98DBB.4020202@dinamis.com> <20090325084556.63531fa8@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <49CA69F4.5040106@dinamis.com> JoeHill wrote: > CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > >> Dave Mason wrote: >>> I am not without a sense of humour. >>> >>> However, I find this thread to be sexist and misogynistic. >>> >>> Ada Lovelace deserves a place beside Boole and Babbage as the original >>> pioneers of what would eventually become computer science (there are >>> those who believe she understood Babbage's work better than he did). To >>> demean that memory by a cheap rif on a name shared with a porn star is, >>> well, let's just go with disappointing. >>> >>> It's no wonder that people at large still look on computer geeks as frat >>> boys, or that young women mostly see no respectful place for themselves >>> in computer science. >> Dave, kudos to you for saying what I had been thinking. I would not be >> quite so harsh with Linda Lovelace though. I read her story many years >> ago. She was apparently a victim of an abusive man who exploited and >> coerced her into doing things that she normally wouldn't have done. >> Unfortunately, it's not exactly a unique story. The Wikipedia page about >> her has more information. > > I find both of you have no sense of humour, and sentence you both to be hung by > the neck until you cheer up. It's interesting to watch how much further you can stick your foot in your mouth. Your original "joke" wasn't funny and now you compound it with another stupid "joke". Hint: a decent person would just say, "On second thought, I guess that wasn't so funny, I'm sorry." instead of attempting to deflect attention towards his critics. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 18:06:02 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:06:02 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <49CA69F4.5040106-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C98DBB.4020202@dinamis.com> <20090325084556.63531fa8@teksavvy.com> <49CA69F4.5040106@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20090325140602.112275e9@teksavvy.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > JoeHill wrote: > > CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > > >> Dave Mason wrote: > >>> I am not without a sense of humour. > >>> > >>> However, I find this thread to be sexist and misogynistic. > >>> > >>> Ada Lovelace deserves a place beside Boole and Babbage as the original > >>> pioneers of what would eventually become computer science (there are > >>> those who believe she understood Babbage's work better than he did). To > >>> demean that memory by a cheap rif on a name shared with a porn star is, > >>> well, let's just go with disappointing. > >>> > >>> It's no wonder that people at large still look on computer geeks as frat > >>> boys, or that young women mostly see no respectful place for themselves > >>> in computer science. > >> Dave, kudos to you for saying what I had been thinking. I would not be > >> quite so harsh with Linda Lovelace though. I read her story many years > >> ago. She was apparently a victim of an abusive man who exploited and > >> coerced her into doing things that she normally wouldn't have done. > >> Unfortunately, it's not exactly a unique story. The Wikipedia page about > >> her has more information. > > > > I find both of you have no sense of humour, and sentence you both to be > > hung by the neck until you cheer up. > > It's interesting to watch how much further you can stick your foot in > your mouth. Your original "joke" wasn't funny and now you compound it > with another stupid "joke". Hint: a decent person would just say, "On > second thought, I guess that wasn't so funny, I'm sorry." instead of > attempting to deflect attention towards his critics. Except that: 1. The original joke was _not_ mine, though I did express my surprise at the cheekiness of it. I just didn't react like a puritan crank, which seems to have offended you. 2. I'm _not_ sorry, because I don't give a rat's ass if you were offended. You really should pay better attention, this is not the first time you have put words in my mouth and then attacked me for it. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 18:06:33 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:06:33 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <49CA3C61.4020506-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> <20090325133429.GA3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49CA3C61.4020506@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20090325180633.GB3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:14:57AM -0400, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Has it occurred to you that maybe [most] women just aren't as interested > in the subject matter as men? Sure, it's intimidating that CS is fully > of geeky men (even for some men!).. do you really think you can make the > generalization that women avoid it because of people within are socially > inept? Yes it has, and research has been done apparently (my wife would be able to provide links I am sure) that show that it isn't the subject matter that is the problem. So yes I really do think that is a fair generalization. If you look throughout history at various types of jobs, it has often been the case that initially when something is new and cutting edge, only men do it. When it starts to become mainstream and more routine and no longer "cool" for the "cowboys" to be doing it, you get a lot more women involved. So there is hope for CS some day. It just has to become normal enough that the "jocks" no longer want to do it and move onto something else. At some point doctors were pretty much only male. These days that is far from the case. At one point teachers were almost all male (although I guess in some places the studens were all male too in some cases). As long as girls are brought up being told "be careful" and "be gentle" and boys are encouraged to explore and have excitement, we are going to have issues with genders in certain fields if they require a certain attitude to survive. CS is unfortunately to a large extent one of those environments where people are very competitive and pushy. That doesn't suit people who have always been told to be nice and gentle. Hopefully that will change. In fact I hope both the environment and the upbringing of both genders can be brought in order. > I've been through CS and had female friends that have been through it as > well as some through engineering. What I can say is sometimes it was > pretty awkward for them, yes.. and I wouldn't have wanted to be in their > position at times. But please don't imply that this environment would > stop them from following their career. At some point a lot of people will decide that the environment is too hostile to be worth it no matter how much the field interests you. > I'm with Dave and Peter on this one; even after their requests to end > this nonsense people are still following up the thread with juvenile > follow-up jokes. There was a lot of this at the last meeting.. so much > that it took Colin about two times what it would normally take anybody > to give that talk. I was quite amazed. Oh dear. I have read comments about meetings in the past, although I have never made it to one. Sounds like one of the less good days. > I'm not without a sense of humor either; I appreciate and contribute my > fair share of geek humor when it's appropriate .. but there are 600 or > so people on this list, most of whom I'm sure would rather talk about > Linux-related subjects than exchange geeky jokes. > > So can we please bury this? It will die out soon. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 18:26:51 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:26:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <49CA69F4.5040106-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C98DBB.4020202@dinamis.com> <20090325084556.63531fa8@teksavvy.com> <49CA69F4.5040106@dinamis.com> Message-ID: | From: CLIFFORD ILKAY | JoeHill wrote: | > CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: | > | >> Dave Mason wrote: | >>> I am not without a sense of humour. | >>> | >>> However, I find this thread to be sexist and misogynistic. | > I find both of you have no sense of humour, and sentence you both to be hung by | > the neck until you cheer up. | | It's interesting to watch how much further you can stick your foot in | your mouth. Your original "joke" wasn't funny and now you compound it | with another stupid "joke". JoeHill (at least under that name) didn't make a joke (as far as I can tell). Unless "Oh, snap" is a joke. I think you dreamed you saw Joe Hill last night <==== joke Each to his own taste, but I don't care for the "humour" in this thread. I too side with Dave on this one. Changing topics: How was March 24th chosen as Ada Lovelace day? It isn't here birth or death day? I don't understand calling her Ada Lovelace. Ada, Countess of Lovelace would seem to be her normal name. Her name using our conventions would be Ada King. To reply to the original "joke", nobody with a surname of Lovelace would have any reason to be related to a Countess Lovelace. Titles and surnames come from different namespaces. I guess pornstar names come from still another namespace. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 18:38:47 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:38:47 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <20090325140602.112275e9-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C98DBB.4020202@dinamis.com> <20090325084556.63531fa8@teksavvy.com> <49CA69F4.5040106@dinamis.com> <20090325140602.112275e9@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <49CA7A37.1010901@dinamis.com> JoeHill wrote: > Except that: > > 1. The original joke was _not_ mine, though I did express my surprise at the > cheekiness of it. I just didn't react like a puritan crank, which seems to have > offended you. Not surprisingly, you miss the point. This has nothing to do with Puritanism. > 2. I'm _not_ sorry, because I don't give a rat's ass if you were offended. The contempt is mutual. > You really should pay better attention, this is not the first time you have put > words in my mouth and then attacked me for it. It doesn't matter if you "started it" or not. You contributed to it and then when you and others were called on it, you compounded your stupid "joke" with another. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From contact-uc+NVM1kvX9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 22:44:37 2009 From: contact-uc+NVM1kvX9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (I. Khider) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:44:37 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <20090325180633.GB3796-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> <20090325133429.GA3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49CA3C61.4020506@ualberta.ca> <20090325180633.GB3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1238021077.3910.19.camel@khider.homenetwork> Greetings, I am delighted there is spirited discussion with regards to the usage of Linda Lovelace (Linda Boreman)and Ada Lovelace. In every bad, it seems there are grains of good. Boreman had since gone on to advocate on women's rights and highlight exploitation in the sex industry. The sex industry is still largely based on opression, economic inequality against women due to our largely patriarchal society and exploitation (mainly of performers). I found Susan G. Cole's 'Pornography and the Sex Crisis' an enlightening read. Lovelace/Boreman was cited several times in Cole's work as performing under duress--a common practice in all sex industries that thrive on poverty and weakness. Naturally there are many who strongly oppose said sentiments, just the same it is good to bring it into dialog. Many developments in internet communications are based on the sex industry, which says something about our society. Margaret Atwood sugested in her essay 'On Pornography' that there might not need to be any pornography if men and women (or any other permutation of the two) if couples communicated better with each other. An intriguing idea. The stigma of social alienation seems to stick with computer entusiasts, but I believe this is symptomatic of society at large. I am all for the empowerment of women and recognizing them for their achievements. As for Lovelace/Boreman's efforts later in life, she did try to empower women by letting the world know of her duress, and consequently most women in the sex industry. So maybe both mentioned can be seen as empowering agents. I will not point out 'bad' or 'good', just offer my 2 cents-though some believe my mental currency is not even worth that. I post this message foremost for myself. And so it goes, objectionable views in a devalued world. -I- On Wed, 2009-03-25 at 14:06 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:14:57AM -0400, Marc Lanctot wrote: > > Has it occurred to you that maybe [most] women just aren't as interested > > in the subject matter as men? Sure, it's intimidating that CS is fully > > of geeky men (even for some men!).. do you really think you can make the > > generalization that women avoid it because of people within are socially > > inept? > > Yes it has, and research has been done apparently (my wife would be able > to provide links I am sure) that show that it isn't the subject matter > that is the problem. So yes I really do think that is a fair > generalization. > > If you look throughout history at various types of jobs, it has often > been the case that initially when something is new and cutting edge, > only men do it. When it starts to become mainstream and more routine > and no longer "cool" for the "cowboys" to be doing it, you get a lot > more women involved. So there is hope for CS some day. It just has to > become normal enough that the "jocks" no longer want to do it and move > onto something else. At some point doctors were pretty much only male. > These days that is far from the case. At one point teachers were almost > all male (although I guess in some places the studens were all male too > in some cases). > > As long as girls are brought up being told "be careful" and "be gentle" > and boys are encouraged to explore and have excitement, we are going > to have issues with genders in certain fields if they require a certain > attitude to survive. CS is unfortunately to a large extent one of those > environments where people are very competitive and pushy. That doesn't > suit people who have always been told to be nice and gentle. Hopefully > that will change. In fact I hope both the environment and the upbringing > of both genders can be brought in order. > > > I've been through CS and had female friends that have been through it as > > well as some through engineering. What I can say is sometimes it was > > pretty awkward for them, yes.. and I wouldn't have wanted to be in their > > position at times. But please don't imply that this environment would > > stop them from following their career. > > At some point a lot of people will decide that the environment is too > hostile to be worth it no matter how much the field interests you. > > > I'm with Dave and Peter on this one; even after their requests to end > > this nonsense people are still following up the thread with juvenile > > follow-up jokes. There was a lot of this at the last meeting.. so much > > that it took Colin about two times what it would normally take anybody > > to give that talk. I was quite amazed. > > Oh dear. I have read comments about meetings in the past, although I > have never made it to one. Sounds like one of the less good days. > > > I'm not without a sense of humor either; I appreciate and contribute my > > fair share of geek humor when it's appropriate .. but there are 600 or > > so people on this list, most of whom I'm sure would rather talk about > > Linux-related subjects than exchange geeky jokes. > > > > So can we please bury this? > > It will die out soon. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 19:03:20 2009 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:03:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <49CA7A37.1010901-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C98DBB.4020202@dinamis.com> <20090325084556.63531fa8@teksavvy.com> <49CA69F4.5040106@dinamis.com> <20090325140602.112275e9@teksavvy.com> <49CA7A37.1010901@dinamis.com> Message-ID: In honour of Ada Lovelace day, all programmers should type the following on the Linux systems: $ vi hello.adb with ada.text_io; procedure hello is begin ada.text_io.put_line( "Happy bithday Ada. From GCC Ada." ); end hello; $ gnatmake hello $ ./hello You may need to install GCC Adda first. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken O. Burtch Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848 "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash" Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org "Perl Phrasebook" Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 19:07:02 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:07:02 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C98DBB.4020202@dinamis.com> <20090325084556.63531fa8@teksavvy.com> <49CA69F4.5040106@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <49CA80D6.1040206@dinamis.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: CLIFFORD ILKAY > > | JoeHill wrote: > | > CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > | > > | >> Dave Mason wrote: > | >>> I am not without a sense of humour. > | >>> > | >>> However, I find this thread to be sexist and misogynistic. > > | > I find both of you have no sense of humour, and sentence you both to be hung by > | > the neck until you cheer up. > | > | It's interesting to watch how much further you can stick your foot in > | your mouth. Your original "joke" wasn't funny and now you compound it > | with another stupid "joke". > > > JoeHill (at least under that name) didn't make a joke (as far as I can > tell). Unless "Oh, snap" is a joke. You're right, and I apologize to JoeHill for saying that he started it. I confused JoeHill with James Knott. But, I still have no use for his stupid joke about how Dave and I should be hung by our necks. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 19:07:17 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:07:17 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <1238021077.3910.19.camel-egX5H+F/hXEu8BFL9Asa/WHqWbEk1Anr@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> <20090325133429.GA3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49CA3C61.4020506@ualberta.ca> <20090325180633.GB3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1238021077.3910.19.camel@khider.homenetwork> Message-ID: <49CA80E5.8050305@dinamis.com> I. Khider wrote: > Margaret Atwood sugested in her essay 'On Pornography' that > there might not need to be any pornography if men and women (or any > other permutation of the two) if couples communicated better with each > other. An intriguing idea. And a laughable one. One person's "erotic art" is another's "pornography". -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 19:19:53 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:19:53 -0400 Subject: Imagine [Was "Happy Ada Lovelace Day!" && "Modifying Open Source Licenses" Message-ID: <99a6c38f0903251219w5595b7f6x4fbaeff0ccb5dbff@mail.gmail.com> First off, until an hour or two ago I was sequestered (after a fashion) and unable to follow the Ada Lovelace thread. As OP I'd like to ask for folks to drop it. I appreciate the positions, and in many cases thought, that has been thrown in on the topic. For me both threads are now intertwined in my thoughts on the blog post suggested by the "Modifying Open Source Licenses" topic which I'm thinking to call "Imagine" It is obviously not mandated that anyone follow this call, but I for one would appreciate it. At least for the time being. Thanks, - Scott. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 19:21:16 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:21:16 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <1238021077.3910.19.camel-egX5H+F/hXEu8BFL9Asa/WHqWbEk1Anr@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> <20090325133429.GA3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49CA3C61.4020506@ualberta.ca> <20090325180633.GB3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1238021077.3910.19.camel@khider.homenetwork> Message-ID: <3a97ef0903251221w3e081057id7efebdd5882996@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 6:44 PM, I. Khider wrote: > Greetings, > > I am delighted there is spirited discussion with regards to the usage of > Linda Lovelace (Linda Boreman)and Ada Lovelace. In every bad, it seems there > are grains of good. Boreman had since gone on to advocate on women's rights > and highlight exploitation in the sex industry. The sex industry is still > largely based on opression, economic inequality against women due to our > largely patriarchal society and exploitation (mainly of performers). I found > Susan G. Cole's 'Pornography and the Sex Crisis' an enlightening read. > Lovelace/Boreman was cited several times in Cole's work as performing under > duress--a common practice in all sex industries that thrive on poverty and > weakness. > > Naturally there are many who strongly oppose said sentiments, just the same > it is good to bring it into dialog. Many developments in internet > communications are based on the sex industry, which says something about our > society. Margaret Atwood sugested in her essay 'On Pornography' that there > might not need to be any pornography if men and women (or any other > permutation of the two) if couples communicated better with each other. An > intriguing idea. The stigma of social alienation seems to stick with > computer entusiasts, but I believe this is symptomatic of society at large. > > I am all for the empowerment of women and recognizing them for their > achievements. As for Lovelace/Boreman's efforts later in life, she did try > to empower women by letting the world know of her duress, and consequently > most women in the sex industry. So maybe both mentioned can be seen as > empowering agents. > > I will not point out 'bad' or 'good', just offer my 2 cents-though some > believe my mental currency is not even worth that. I post this message > foremost for myself. And so it goes, objectionable views in a devalued > world. > > -I- > Well, it's nice to see at least some intelligent discussion emerge from the flamewar. Personally I didn't know much about either of the "Lovelace" women until this particular discussion came up. From what I've read since on Linda, it seems that her life story is a rather sad one of abuse caused by others but also perhaps due to her own gravitation towards men of a particular nature. Unfortunately, while her origins in the industry gave her a great deal of experience on the topic which she later in life opposed, the same background tended to have many disregard her input on the subject. Indeed it seems that many of the more well-cited arguments on the topic are those who speak *about* Boreman's life rather than her own accounts. In terms significant female contributions to technology, Lovelace is definately a significant contributor, but one of my favorites would probably be Hedy Lamarr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedy_Lamarr As both an actress and a scientist, she not only disproves the theories that women do not have the intellect for science, but also that women cannot be both beautiful and intelligent. In terms of somewhat geekish women in the "adult industry", one could also pay tribute to Asia Carrera, who moved from starring in adult films to producing, but later gave up the industry in order to focus on her family, and moved to a rather religious area to keep her children out of the limelight of her former industry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Carrera With regards to women in the IT industry in general, I know quite a few, however they often do seem to think in different ways than most of the men I know (not wrongly, just differently). So one of the other factors might be that in a male-dominated profession, ideas that do not fit within that line of thinking are not so well accepted. My own industry experience has also shown a rather hefty spread of rather poor etiquette which I could definitely see being offensive to people in general (and possibly more offensive to females). For any women interested in family-planning, etc, the long extra-hours that seem to be rather typical of private-sector IT jobs in this province would likely also be a turnoff, and while it's supports to be an issue, I'm sure some managers do consider the aspect of maternity leave when considering male vs female candidates in this regard. As for the ongoing back-and-forth between various members over the various comments comparing the two Lovelace's, I'd suggest that it might be more productive to send your scathing emails directly to each-other rather than wasting the time of the rest of us on this list. - TJA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 19:36:44 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:36:44 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0903251221w3e081057id7efebdd5882996-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> <20090325133429.GA3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49CA3C61.4020506@ualberta.ca> <20090325180633.GB3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1238021077.3910.19.camel@khider.homenetwork> <3a97ef0903251221w3e081057id7efebdd5882996@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49CA87CC.4090901@dinamis.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > In terms significant female contributions to technology, Lovelace is > definately a significant contributor, but one of my favorites would > probably be Hedy Lamarr: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedy_Lamarr > As both an actress and a scientist, she not only disproves the > theories that women do not have the intellect for science, but also > that women cannot be both beautiful and intelligent. Add Rear Admiral Grace Hopper to the ranks of remarkable women in the history of computer science. I know that they're making a genuine effort in school and in Sparks, Brownies, and Guides to help young girls to build positive attitudes towards maths and sciences but it occasionally has unintended side-effects. For a while after learning about Marie Curie, my eight year old daughter thought of science as something she'd rather avoid in order not to die from radiation poisoning. :) -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From contact-uc+NVM1kvX9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 23:53:38 2009 From: contact-uc+NVM1kvX9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (I. Khider) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:53:38 -0400 Subject: Help (or those damn newbs!) In-Reply-To: <49CA87CC.4090901-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> <20090325133429.GA3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49CA3C61.4020506@ualberta.ca> <20090325180633.GB3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1238021077.3910.19.camel@khider.homenetwork> <3a97ef0903251221w3e081057id7efebdd5882996@mail.gmail.com> <49CA87CC.4090901@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <1238025218.3910.26.camel@khider.homenetwork> Greetings Fellow Linux Users, As you may no doubt surmise, my e-mails always travel forward in time, while I remain locked in the present (for now). The time is always off on my computer (I use Gentoo) and my appeals for help on the Gentoo IRC yielded little in the way of solutions. Then again, I label myself a special strain of dumb ass. I think my time setting may be based on pinging a server on the wrong time zone or maybe the internal clock on my box. Could someone offer advice for a Gentoo newb on how to fix the time? Advance apologies if my question is too rudimentary.... -I- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 20:03:49 2009 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:03:49 -0400 Subject: Help (or those damn newbs!) In-Reply-To: <1238025218.3910.26.camel-egX5H+F/hXEu8BFL9Asa/WHqWbEk1Anr@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> <20090325133429.GA3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49CA3C61.4020506@ualberta.ca> <20090325180633.GB3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1238021077.3910.19.camel@khider.homenetwork> <3a97ef0903251221w3e081057id7efebdd5882996@mail.gmail.com> <49CA87CC.4090901@dinamis.com> <1238025218.3910.26.camel@khider.homenetwork> Message-ID: Hi, I've just had a similar problem during an install. Can't guarantee any help, but just in case... What is the output from "hwclock"? If you reset the time with "date" is the time correct after that (at least until you reboot). If you reset the time with "date then set the hardware clock with "hwclock", does the time stay correct after a reboot? (This was my problem). Also, if you are using localtime, make sure you don't set using "hwclock" with the -utc flag (and vice-versa). Cheers, Colin On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:53 PM, I. Khider wrote: > Greetings Fellow Linux Users, > > As you may no doubt surmise, my e-mails always travel forward in time, > while I remain locked in the present (for now). > > The time is always off on my computer (I use Gentoo) and my appeals for > help on the Gentoo IRC yielded little in the way of solutions. Then again, I > label myself a special strain of dumb ass. I think my time setting may be > based on pinging a server on the wrong time zone or maybe the internal clock > on my box. Could someone offer advice for a Gentoo newb on how to fix the > time? > > Advance apologies if my question is too rudimentary.... > > -I- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 20:09:26 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:09:26 -0400 Subject: Help (or those damn newbs!) In-Reply-To: <1238025218.3910.26.camel-egX5H+F/hXEu8BFL9Asa/WHqWbEk1Anr@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> <20090325133429.GA3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49CA3C61.4020506@ualberta.ca> <20090325180633.GB3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1238021077.3910.19.camel@khider.homenetwork> <3a97ef0903251221w3e081057id7efebdd5882996@mail.gmail.com> <49CA87CC.4090901@dinamis.com> <1238025218.3910.26.camel@khider.homenetwork> Message-ID: <49CA8F76.4050100@ualberta.ca> On 25/03/09 07:53 PM, I. Khider wrote: > Greetings Fellow Linux Users, > > As you may no doubt surmise, my e-mails always travel forward in time, > while I remain locked in the present (for now). > > The time is always off on my computer (I use Gentoo) and my appeals for > help on the Gentoo IRC yielded little in the way of solutions. Then > again, I label myself a special strain of dumb ass. I think my time > setting may be based on pinging a server on the wrong time zone or maybe > the internal clock on my box. Could someone offer advice for a Gentoo > newb on how to fix the time? > > Advance apologies if my question is too rudimentary.... Try: emerge ntpdate ntpdate ca.pool.ntp.org date does that show the right time? If so, try a reboot to see if your internal hardware clock is being updated with system time. If it's not, you'll have to fix that (no idea how, sorry). What I do is run a script via cron or on bootup that runs ntpdate to fix the date. If you need to how how to do that let me know. Marc -- If builders built houses the way programmers built programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization. -- Gerald P. Weinberg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Mar 25 20:27:45 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:27:45 -0400 Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: <20090325180633.GB3796-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> <20090325133429.GA3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49CA3C61.4020506@ualberta.ca> <20090325180633.GB3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49CA93C1.8090603@ualberta.ca> On 25/03/09 02:06 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:14:57AM -0400, Marc Lanctot wrote: >> Has it occurred to you that maybe [most] women just aren't as interested >> in the subject matter as men? Sure, it's intimidating that CS is fully >> of geeky men (even for some men!).. do you really think you can make the >> generalization that women avoid it because of people within are socially >> inept? > > Yes it has, and research has been done apparently (my wife would be able > to provide links I am sure) that show that it isn't the subject matter > that is the problem. So yes I really do think that is a fair > generalization. By Scott's request, I won't say more on this.. but if it's easy for you to point me to some [credible] research then please do. >> I'm with Dave and Peter on this one; even after their requests to end >> this nonsense people are still following up the thread with juvenile >> follow-up jokes. There was a lot of this at the last meeting.. so much >> that it took Colin about two times what it would normally take anybody >> to give that talk. I was quite amazed. > > Oh dear. I have read comments about meetings in the past, although I > have never made it to one. Sounds like one of the less good days. For the record: it was a good talk.. exciting topic, and I gained from it. It was just felt segmented because there were a fair bit of interruptions (and I'm not referring to discussion amongst us about the actual topic). It was my first time so it could just be the style of the talks that I'm not used to. Marc -- If builders built houses the way programmers built programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization. -- Gerald P. Weinberg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vertaxis-fLiV7HKGQdk at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 26 00:54:38 2009 From: vertaxis-fLiV7HKGQdk at public.gmane.org (vertaxis) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:54:38 -0400 Subject: Help (or those damn newbs!) In-Reply-To: <1238025218.3910.26.camel-egX5H+F/hXEu8BFL9Asa/WHqWbEk1Anr@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C9D711.2020704@telly.org> <20090325133429.GA3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49CA3C61.4020506@ualberta.ca> <20090325180633.GB3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1238021077.3910.19.camel@khider.homenetwork> <3a97ef0903251221w3e081057id7efebdd5882996@mail.gmail.com> <49CA87CC.4090901@dinamis.com> <1238025218.3910.26.camel@khider.homenetwork> Message-ID: <49CAD24E.9020503@vif.com> This should get you started. Most of what you need is in the Gentoo Handbook. http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/ Section 7 of the Gentoo Handbook has the timezone setting. http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml?style=printable&full=1#book_part1_chap7 Section 8.c of the Gentoo Handbook has settings for the /etc/conf.d/clock file http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml?style=printable&full=1#book_part1_chap8 The "date" command will set the clock manually. date MMDDhhmmYYYY ex. 032520452009 is March 25, 20:45 2009 then, the Gentoo-wiki has a good doc on setting up ntp http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/NTP John I. Khider wrote: > Greetings Fellow Linux Users, > > As you may no doubt surmise, my e-mails always travel forward in time, > while I remain locked in the present (for now). > > The time is always off on my computer (I use Gentoo) and my appeals > for help on the Gentoo IRC yielded little in the way of solutions. > Then again, I label myself a special strain of dumb ass. I think my > time setting may be based on pinging a server on the wrong time zone > or maybe the internal clock on my box. Could someone offer advice for > a Gentoo newb on how to fix the time? > > Advance apologies if my question is too rudimentary.... > > -I- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 26 15:54:29 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C98DBB.4020202@dinamis.com> <20090325084556.63531fa8@teksavvy.com> <49CA69F4.5040106@dinamis.com> <20090325140602.112275e9@teksavvy.com> <49CA7A37.1010901@dinamis.com> Message-ID: | Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:03:20 -0400 (EDT) | From: Ken Burtch | ada.text_io.put_line( "Happy bithday Ada. From GCC Ada." ); It isn't her birthday (December 10). I don't know why "they" chose March 24th as Ada Lovelace Day. I'm not saying that there isn't a reason. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Mar 26 16:16:10 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Happy Ada Lovelace Day! In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0903240749t2c22ddd0l232787bfd957b68d@mail.gmail.com> <49C949D6.1060400@rogers.com> <1237928911.9055.2.camel@leon> <49C960BC.3040000@telly.org> <20090325011811.61323854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <49C98DBB.4020202@dinamis.com> <20090325084556.63531fa8@teksavvy.com> <49CA69F4.5040106@dinamis.com> Message-ID: | From: colin davidson | Well, staying out of the cat-fight (and that is a reference to behaviour, not gender) other than to say "A pox on both | your houses", at the time (and more so earlier in history) is was common usage to refer to the English nobility by their | family title, especially in the case of the actual title holder, rather than their family name. Look at how often | Shakespear referred to "Gloucester" or "Leicester". And if you find "Ada Lovelace" a strange useage, ask yourself "what | was the actual name of the poet Byron?" (her father). Byron's last name was ... "Byron". According to Wikipedia, his name, at birth (before he became Baron) was George Gordon Byron. Not an accident. The title was created in 1643 for Sir John Byron, the elder brother of an ancestor. Something I'm not quite up on is that when you get to change your name. Byron's name became Noel, 6th Baron Byron. Was Noel one of his names before that? But then King George VI wasn't known as "George" before he became king: he was Prince Albert and Bertie to his family. The Popes all pick new names too. Shakespeare hardly speaks the way we do now :-) My recollection of "Glocester" etc. in Shakespeare was that that form was used to specify (unambiguously and concisely) who was speaking and not used by the actual speakers. I could be wrong (too lazy to look). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 27 18:05:44 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:05:44 -0400 Subject: OT: photoshop on Windows Message-ID: Afternoon, I am a little cautious raising a Windows related question on a Linux user group. That being said, I do believe there are a few among us who have experience using photoshop on windows and willing to extend a helpful hand, so bear with me on this OT post. I have a friend running photoshop version 11.0.1.0 for a while now, but he has been dogged with a problem of it slowing the whole system down. After a reboot, it does perform is an acceptable manner for a while - 30 minutes, then slows down until the system is unusable. At that point, the only solution is to reboot the system. I googled a while back on it with no pointer for a permanent solution, so I set the system optimized for performance at the expense of appearance. This now allow the system to run for around 3 hours as opposed to 30 minutes Now, would there be anyone among us who have noticed this kind of problem? Did you ever come across a solution for it? Personally, I feel its some kind of a memory leak, but googling for photoshop + memory leak do not pull any interesting search. Advice. Regards, William -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 27 18:13:28 2009 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:13:28 -0400 Subject: OT: photoshop on Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C9398A9-B7BD-44B2-93EA-F5439DE7FA43@gmail.com> Hi William, Two possibilities occur: 1. If there is insufficient RAM in the system, Photoshop will rely more on "scratch space" -- the hard disk. This will slow things down. 2. If there's not a lot of hard disk space left, it'll have nowhere to put the scratch data. So in short: more memory, more disk. That'll fix 'er. Cheers, Aaron. On 27-Mar-09, at 2:05 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Afternoon, > > I am a little cautious raising a Windows related question on a Linux > user group. That being said, I do believe there are a few among us who > have experience using photoshop on windows and willing to extend a > helpful hand, so bear with me on this OT post. > > I have a friend running photoshop version 11.0.1.0 for a while now, > but he has been dogged with a problem of it slowing the whole system > down. After a reboot, it does perform is an acceptable manner for a > while - 30 minutes, then slows down until the system is unusable. At > that point, the only solution is to reboot the system. I googled a > while back on it with no pointer for a permanent solution, so I set > the system optimized for performance at the expense of appearance. > This now allow the system to run for around 3 hours as opposed to 30 > minutes > > Now, would there be anyone among us who have noticed this kind of > problem? Did you ever come across a solution for it? Personally, I > feel its some kind of a memory leak, but googling for photoshop + > memory leak do not pull any interesting search. > > Advice. > > Regards, > > William > > -- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 27 18:16:14 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:16:14 -0400 Subject: OT: photoshop on Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49CD17EE.8050708@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > I have a friend running photoshop version 11.0.1.0 for a while now, > > but he has been dogged with a problem of it slowing the whole system > down. After a reboot, it does perform is an acceptable manner for a > while - 30 minutes, then slows down until the system is unusable. At > that point, the only solution is to reboot the system. I googled a > while back on it with no pointer for a permanent solution, so I set > the system optimized for performance at the expense of appearance. > This now allow the system to run for around 3 hours as opposed to 30 > minutes > > Now, would there be anyone among us who have noticed this kind of > problem? Did you ever come across a solution for it? Personally, I > feel its some kind of a memory leak, but googling for photoshop + > memory leak do not pull any interesting search. > > I have not seen PS referred to with just a number since version 7. I had to check that you meant CS4. I upgraded to CS4 and after 1/2 hour I was on my way to the store to get a new computer. AMD quad core, 4 gigs ram, 1.5 TB drive, plue two older IDE drives for system and PS swap. I am very happy with the performance and have not experienced anything like you have. But I gave up on my old hardware pretty quickly. What hardware were you working with? Does PS have a dedicated swap drive? How big are the source files? Are large numbers of layers being used? Many open photos at the same time? Large batch jobs? Anything else running in the background? Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 27 19:40:36 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:40:36 -0400 Subject: OT: photoshop on Windows In-Reply-To: <49CD17EE.8050708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49CD17EE.8050708@rogers.com> Message-ID: Thanks Aaron & Steve >> > > I have not seen PS referred to with just a number since version 7. I had to > check that you meant CS4. Its CS4, damn marketing guys. If you look at version information on the application, you will see 11.0.1 as I had said. However, during the purchase, they call it CS4. > > I upgraded to CS4 and after 1/2 hour I was on my way to the store to get a > new computer. > Yeah, it is a serious resource hog. That, I am certain of. > AMD quad core, 4 gigs ram, 1.5 TB drive, plue two older IDE drives for > system and PS swap. I am very happy with the performance and have not > experienced anything like you have. But I gave up on my old hardware pretty > quickly. > Hmm, that is a very powerful machine. 4GB of RAM. Its hard for anything to bog that down for sure. > What hardware were you working with? 2GHZ CPU, 2GB of RAM and 101GB of hard disk free > Does PS have a dedicated swap drive? No, share the 101 GB with the operating system > How big are the source files? Between 6 to 15 MB of average > Are large numbers of layers being used? 10 to 25 on average > Many open photos at the same time? Mostly one to two photos at a time > Large batch jobs? Not sure I understood you here. Photoshop can handle batch jobs? > Anything else running in the background? Normal Window applications, outlook, browser etc. In short there is nothing else highly specialized. > > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_li William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 27 20:01:08 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:01:08 -0400 Subject: OT: photoshop on Windows In-Reply-To: References: <49CD17EE.8050708@rogers.com> Message-ID: Forgot one last thing Photoshop is set to use 55% of the RAM available, around 1GB > >> What hardware were you working with? > 2GHZ CPU, 2GB of RAM and 101GB of hard disk free >> Does PS have a dedicated swap drive? > No, share the 101 GB with the operating system >> How big are the source files? > Between 6 to 15 MB of average >> Are large numbers of layers being used? > 10 to 25 on average >> Many open photos at the same time? > Mostly one to two photos at a time >> Large batch jobs? > Not sure I understood you here. Photoshop can handle batch jobs? >> Anything else running in the background? > Normal Window applications, outlook, browser etc. In short there is > nothing else highly specialized. >> >> Stephen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_li > William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Mar 27 20:39:53 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:39:53 -0400 Subject: OT: photoshop on Windows In-Reply-To: References: <49CD17EE.8050708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49CD3999.20008@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: I forgot to add that I also am running 64 bit and Windows 7 beta. Not having a dedicated swap drive is a big hurt, as well as not having a separate data drive. The swap drive can be an old 20 gig IDE drive. I have a couple on a shelf, somewhere. 1.7 gigs of ram is all that 32 bit Windows can use for one app, so not much you can do there. Your file size is large and suggests camera RAW files. And the 10-25 layers is quite high. This is getting into power user activity and you really need a power user machine. > Not sure I understood you here. Photoshop can handle batch jobs? > Yes. Under the File menu there is a batch processor and also an image processor. You have probably done everything you can do without spending money. I would try flattening layers after saving intermediate work. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 28 02:53:17 2009 From: redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:53:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: You can't get There from Here Message-ID: <45599.11691.qm@web31301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> or 'Airport to Nowhere' G'day TLUGers, -is not the plight of M$ OS users similar to that of these travellers? cheers, dave http://www.theonion.com/content/video/pragues_franz_kafka_international?utm_source=a-section Prague's Franz Kafka International Named World's Most Alienating Airport __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 28 12:12:37 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 08:12:37 -0400 Subject: Ask.com and Firefox In-Reply-To: <49C93A7E.5080104-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <49C8E5B9.9000708@alteeve.com> <49C92A6F.2060601@primus.ca> <49C92C01.5030302@alteeve.com> <49C93A7E.5080104@primus.ca> Message-ID: <49CE1435.2050308@alteeve.com> George Nicol wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: > >> It's not so obvious as to come back right away. It seems to >> come back after a period of time. Perhaps when Firefox updates? > > Seems likely. Maybe I *will* be able to duplicate the problem. > >> "Foistware" is a new one on me, and seems appropriate. > > Foistware / Bundleware / Shovelware is software bundled with > completely unrelated programs. A while back, I updated the > RealPlayer stuff (yuck) on a Windows box and received more > than I bargained for. AVG anti-virus quarantined one of the > secretly bundled extras and hollered, "Virus!" > > Browser Toolbars of all kinds are commonly installed this way. > Somebody's got to pay for their version of free, right? Firefox was in the list of updates today. This time I checked my list, no Ask.com. Closed firefox, updated and restart. Guess what's back! Bloody Ask.com. What the heck?! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 28 12:49:35 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 08:49:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ask.com and Firefox In-Reply-To: <49CE1435.2050308-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49C8E5B9.9000708@alteeve.com> <49C92A6F.2060601@primus.ca> <49C92C01.5030302@alteeve.com> <49C93A7E.5080104@primus.ca> <49CE1435.2050308@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > Firefox was in the list of updates today. This time I checked > my list, no Ask.com. Closed firefox, updated and restart. > Guess what's back! Bloody Ask.com. What the heck?! It seems enough information to file a Firefox bug report. -- (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 28 14:35:53 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:35:53 -0400 Subject: Debian Lenny install not asking for root pass Message-ID: Just noticed today that the system is not asking for a root pass when I run Synaptic or Update Manager. Not sure if this is because I've inadvertently checked some 'remember my password', but where would I go to reset this to normal behaviour? B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 28 15:03:09 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:03:09 -0400 Subject: Debian Lenny install not asking for root pass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090328110309.661e81ff.tleslie@tcn.net> correct, it asks once, and then for any use within X minutes of that first auth, you dont get re-auth'd prompted reboot (to be sure) and try it, if it doesnt prompt you, then you have to wonder. -tl On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:35:53 -0400 Thomas Milne wrote: > Just noticed today that the system is not asking for a root pass when > I run Synaptic or Update Manager. Not sure if this is because I've > inadvertently checked some 'remember my password', but where would I > go to reset this to normal behaviour? > > B. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 28 15:33:59 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 11:33:59 -0400 Subject: Debian Lenny install not asking for root pass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you allowed root in "sudoers" without a password? That'll do it too Sent from my phone. On 28-Mar-09, at 10:35 AM, Thomas Milne wrote: > Just noticed today that the system is not asking for a root pass when > I run Synaptic or Update Manager. Not sure if this is because I've > inadvertently checked some 'remember my password', but where would I > go to reset this to normal behaviour? > > B. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 28 16:54:16 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 12:54:16 -0400 Subject: Debian Lenny install not asking for root pass In-Reply-To: <20090328110309.661e81ff.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20090328110309.661e81ff.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 11:03 AM, ted leslie wrote: > correct, it asks once, and then for any use within X minutes of that first auth, > you dont get re-auth'd prompted > > reboot (to be sure) and try it, if it doesnt prompt you, then you have to wonder. > > -tl That did it, thanks! I don't know why this is done this way now, but when you first launch Synaptic it has 'remember password for this session' enabled by default. I guess that makes it easier for new users. > On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:35:53 -0400 > Thomas Milne wrote: > >> Just noticed today that the system is not asking for a root pass when >> I run Synaptic or Update Manager. Not sure if this is because I've >> inadvertently checked some 'remember my password', but where would I >> go to reset this to normal behaviour? >> >> B. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > ted leslie > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Mar 28 17:20:14 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 13:20:14 -0400 Subject: Debian Lenny install not asking for root pass In-Reply-To: References: <20090328110309.661e81ff.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <121C0F2F-9368-41AA-9D05-563E409E6692@gmail.com> AFAIO, Synaptic uses sudo (or gksu etc) which generally does retain the session for awhile. Even on the command-line it does this for awhile. Sent from my phone. On 28-Mar-09, at 12:54 PM, Thomas Milne wrote: > On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 11:03 AM, ted leslie wrote: >> correct, it asks once, and then for any use within X minutes of >> that first auth, >> you dont get re-auth'd prompted >> >> reboot (to be sure) and try it, if it doesnt prompt you, then you >> have to wonder. >> >> -tl > > That did it, thanks! I don't know why this is done this way now, but > when you first launch Synaptic it has 'remember password for this > session' enabled by default. I guess that makes it easier for new > users. > > >> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:35:53 -0400 >> Thomas Milne wrote: >> >>> Just noticed today that the system is not asking for a root pass >>> when >>> I run Synaptic or Update Manager. Not sure if this is because I've >>> inadvertently checked some 'remember my password', but where would I >>> go to reset this to normal behaviour? >>> >>> B. >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> >> -- >> ted leslie >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 29 00:50:01 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:50:01 -0400 Subject: Ask.com and Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <49C8E5B9.9000708@alteeve.com> <49C92A6F.2060601@primus.ca> <49C92C01.5030302@alteeve.com> <49C93A7E.5080104@primus.ca> <49CE1435.2050308@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Hi, >> >> Firefox was in the list of updates today. This time I checked my list, no >> Ask.com. Closed firefox, updated and restart. Guess what's back! Bloody >> Ask.com. What the heck?! > > It seems enough information to file a Firefox bug report. Firefox bug or a distribution bug? Look like the later, have anyone observed this on other distribution other than debian? Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Mar 29 23:57:03 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 19:57:03 -0400 Subject: speeding up bios POST Message-ID: <1238371023.29086.3062.camel@localhost> hi folks, i'm building a brand-new system, which i have to say is blazing fast -- it's built around an asus p5n7a-vm MB, with a mid-level core2duo chip. I've installed ubuntu jaunty, which boots pretty quickly from grub -- less than 20 seconds to gnome session -- but, to me astonishingly, it takes 15 seconds from power-on to GRUB. this just seems crazy long, and I wonder what I can do to change it. The BIOS is a pretty standard American Megatrends AMIBIOS, on which I've enabled 'quickboot' (that did seem to help a little) and disabled the express gate, which wasn't working anyway (i'm actually not even sure if the flash module is installed on the board, don't really knowmuch about express-gate). but there are still long pauses I can't explain. so i'm wondering: is there a way to 'bootchart' your bios? or are there standard methods for speeding it up? thanks as always, matt ps, if someone can explain the expressgatething to me, i'd be grateful for that as well. i'm wondering if i could just install my main OS on a CF card and boot directly into that without having to go through BIOS... -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 30 01:11:11 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 21:11:11 -0400 Subject: speeding up bios POST In-Reply-To: <1238371023.29086.3062.camel@localhost> References: <1238371023.29086.3062.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <32f6a8880903291811x4ed97bebu45abe8eb104481c3@mail.gmail.com> Hi Matt, I haven't tried this, but there is an open source project that uses linux for the bios. You can find details here: http://www.coreboot.org/Welcome_to_coreboot Maybe someone on the list can verify the stability of it....not sure if you want to risk your computer. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 30 01:39:57 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:39:57 -0500 Subject: speeding up bios POST In-Reply-To: <1238371023.29086.3062.camel@localhost> References: <1238371023.29086.3062.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <49D022ED.6040500@tmis.ca> The only things I can think of are 1) disable unrequired devices in BIOS 2) boot directly from the hard drive in the BIOS boot sequence 3) choose (CS) cable select if using IDE devices Matt Price wrote: > hi folks, > > i'm building a brand-new system, which i have to say is blazing fast -- > it's built around an asus p5n7a-vm MB, with a mid-level core2duo chip. > I've installed ubuntu jaunty, which boots pretty quickly from grub -- > less than 20 seconds to gnome session -- but, to me astonishingly, it > takes 15 seconds from power-on to GRUB. this just seems crazy long, and > I wonder what I can do to change it. The BIOS is a pretty standard > American Megatrends AMIBIOS, on which I've enabled 'quickboot' (that did > seem to help a little) and disabled the express gate, which wasn't > working anyway (i'm actually not even sure if the flash module is > installed on the board, don't really knowmuch about express-gate). but > there are still long pauses I can't explain. so i'm wondering: is > there a way to 'bootchart' your bios? or are there standard methods for > speeding it up? > > thanks as always, > > matt > > > ps, if someone can explain the expressgatething to me, i'd be grateful > for that as well. i'm wondering if i could just install my main OS on a > CF card and boot directly into that without having to go through > BIOS... > -- [ Teddy David Mills System Administrator TMIS.ca ] [ Teddys Virtual Space of Sciences, Technology ] [ Music, Media, Linux and Open Source ] [ http://vger1.dyndns.org ] [ http://vger1.dyndns.org/wordpress ] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 30 02:10:23 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 22:10:23 -0400 Subject: speeding up bios POST In-Reply-To: <1238371023.29086.3062.camel@localhost> References: <1238371023.29086.3062.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20090329221023.f7444753.tleslie@tcn.net> that does sound unusually long, if you want really fast boot, i just bought a intel flash 32GB solid state drive, with the insanely small "seek time", it max's out the sata3 bus for reads, and almost for writes, it speed up the kernel boot up by say only 2X but the gnome desktop bootup!! it went from (with a normal hard drive) to seeing the different modules of gnome (icons) come up, then go to desktop, to , do fast you cant see the different modules, to basically 1 second to the desk top. Generally it speed up everything by a solid 2-3 times, but anything that is many file opening at once, say a big app going after much .so's/dll wow! you can easily see 20X speed up. a bit pricy at 400$ for 32GB, but it will come down soon enough. I am going to raid-0 (or 50-60) 6-8 or so of these together to max out a 3ware pciE card, get hopefully about 1.5GB/second transfer, be nice to tranfer a DVD worth of data in 3 seconds!! The way flash drives are going (i.e. platter HD's are basically dead now), this will probably be normal speeds (for disk access) for people in 3-4 years. -tl On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 19:57:03 -0400 Matt Price wrote: > hi folks, > > i'm building a brand-new system, which i have to say is blazing fast -- > it's built around an asus p5n7a-vm MB, with a mid-level core2duo chip. > I've installed ubuntu jaunty, which boots pretty quickly from grub -- > less than 20 seconds to gnome session -- but, to me astonishingly, it > takes 15 seconds from power-on to GRUB. this just seems crazy long, and > I wonder what I can do to change it. The BIOS is a pretty standard > American Megatrends AMIBIOS, on which I've enabled 'quickboot' (that did > seem to help a little) and disabled the express gate, which wasn't > working anyway (i'm actually not even sure if the flash module is > installed on the board, don't really knowmuch about express-gate). but > there are still long pauses I can't explain. so i'm wondering: is > there a way to 'bootchart' your bios? or are there standard methods for > speeding it up? > > thanks as always, > > matt > > > ps, if someone can explain the expressgatething to me, i'd be grateful > for that as well. i'm wondering if i could just install my main OS on a > CF card and boot directly into that without having to go through > BIOS... > > -- > Matt Price > matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 30 03:42:33 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 23:42:33 -0400 Subject: speeding up bios POST In-Reply-To: <20090329221023.f7444753.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <1238371023.29086.3062.camel@localhost> <20090329221023.f7444753.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <1238384553.29086.4195.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2009-03-29 at 22:10 -0400, ted leslie wrote: > that does sound unusually long, > if you want really fast boot, > i just bought a intel flash 32GB solid state drive, > with the insanely small "seek time", > it max's out the sata3 bus for reads, and almost for writes, > it speed up the kernel boot up by say only 2X > but the gnome desktop bootup!! it went from > (with a normal hard drive) to seeing the different > modules of gnome (icons) come up, then go to desktop, > to , do fast you cant see the different modules, to > basically 1 second to the desk top. > Generally it speed up everything by a solid 2-3 times, > but anything that is many file opening at once, > say a big app going after much .so's/dll > wow! you can easily see 20X speed up. > a bit pricy at 400$ for 32GB, but it will come down soon enough. > I am going to raid-0 (or 50-60) 6-8 or so of these together to max out a > 3ware pciE card, get hopefully about 1.5GB/second transfer, > be nice to tranfer a DVD worth of data in 3 seconds!! > The way flash drives are going (i.e. platter HD's are basically dead now), > this will probably be normal speeds (for disk access) for people in 3-4 years. > wow. that sounds pretty cool. but i think i'm going to have to wait a year or two for prices to come down -- $400 is wayyyyy out of my price range. nice to know it makes such a difference, though... m > -tl > > On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 19:57:03 -0400 > Matt Price wrote: > > > hi folks, > > > > i'm building a brand-new system, which i have to say is blazing fast -- > > it's built around an asus p5n7a-vm MB, with a mid-level core2duo chip. > > I've installed ubuntu jaunty, which boots pretty quickly from grub -- > > less than 20 seconds to gnome session -- but, to me astonishingly, it > > takes 15 seconds from power-on to GRUB. this just seems crazy long, and > > I wonder what I can do to change it. The BIOS is a pretty standard > > American Megatrends AMIBIOS, on which I've enabled 'quickboot' (that did > > seem to help a little) and disabled the express gate, which wasn't > > working anyway (i'm actually not even sure if the flash module is > > installed on the board, don't really knowmuch about express-gate). but > > there are still long pauses I can't explain. so i'm wondering: is > > there a way to 'bootchart' your bios? or are there standard methods for > > speeding it up? > > > > thanks as always, > > > > matt > > > > > > ps, if someone can explain the expressgatething to me, i'd be grateful > > for that as well. i'm wondering if i could just install my main OS on a > > CF card and boot directly into that without having to go through > > BIOS... > > > > -- > > Matt Price > > matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 30 01:27:19 2009 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 21:27:19 -0400 Subject: Concise Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia Message-ID: <49D01FF7.7050405@chrisaitken.net> I have an old boxed "Concise Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia". The box boasts, "System Requirements for UNIX: Solaris, SunOS, SGI, DEC, Alpha, AIX, Linux, BSD, SCO, X Windows, 8 MB RAM, 6MB Hard Disk space, CD ROM" I thought I'd try installing it. However, there are no instructions fro installing on LInux. THe instructions are all for installing on the other supported OS: OS/2WARP. I installed wine with 'sudo apt-get install wine' and that went okay. I went into the CD and right-clicked install.exe > Open With Other Application ... > Wine Windows Program Loader. A terminal opened briefly then ... nothing. I also tried the same thing with the only other two .exe files (dux.exe and chk4dll.exe) with the same result). I also tried: chris at cpc:~$ sudo wine /media/cdrom0/install.exe wine: /home/chris/.wine is not owned by you chris at cpc:~$ su Password: root at cpc:/home/chris# wine /media/cdrom0/install.exe wine: created the configuration directory '/root/.wine' Could not load Mozilla. HTML rendering will be disabled. wine: configuration in '/root/.wine' has been updated. Sorry, Z:\media\cdrom0\install.exe is an OS/2 linear executable (LX) file! winevdm: can't exec 'Z:\media\cdrom0\install.exe': error=12 root at cpc:/home/chris# I think I better stop now. If I don't try enough I'm a slacker. If I try too much I'm thrashing. Oh, yeah, here's my distro: root at cpc:/home/chris# cat /etc/issue Ubuntu 8.04.2 \n \l ;/ Any ideas? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 30 15:21:36 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:21:36 -0400 Subject: speeding up bios POST In-Reply-To: <1238371023.29086.3062.camel@localhost> References: <1238371023.29086.3062.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20090330152136.GC3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 07:57:03PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > i'm building a brand-new system, which i have to say is blazing fast -- > it's built around an asus p5n7a-vm MB, with a mid-level core2duo chip. > I've installed ubuntu jaunty, which boots pretty quickly from grub -- > less than 20 seconds to gnome session -- but, to me astonishingly, it > takes 15 seconds from power-on to GRUB. this just seems crazy long, and > I wonder what I can do to change it. The BIOS is a pretty standard > American Megatrends AMIBIOS, on which I've enabled 'quickboot' (that did > seem to help a little) and disabled the express gate, which wasn't > working anyway (i'm actually not even sure if the flash module is > installed on the board, don't really knowmuch about express-gate). but > there are still long pauses I can't explain. so i'm wondering: is > there a way to 'bootchart' your bios? or are there standard methods for > speeding it up? I don't know of any way. I have an old 486 that goes from power on to grub in about 5 seconds. I wish all bioses were like that. I wish bios makers would work a little harder on speeding things up. Do they ever consider how much of the planet's time they are wasting? > ps, if someone can explain the expressgatething to me, i'd be grateful > for that as well. i'm wondering if i could just install my main OS on a > CF card and boot directly into that without having to go through > BIOS... If you want that, then you probably want a board capable of running linuxbios. Most can't. Expressgate is different. I believe it only initializes the hardware that the expressgate system will use, saving some startup time. I haven't really looked into it though, so I am only speculating. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 30 15:33:15 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:33:15 -0400 Subject: Concise Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia In-Reply-To: <49D01FF7.7050405-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <49D01FF7.7050405@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20090330153315.GD3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 09:27:19PM -0400, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > I have an old boxed "Concise Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia". The box > boasts, "System Requirements for UNIX: Solaris, SunOS, SGI, DEC, Alpha, > AIX, Linux, BSD, SCO, X Windows, 8 MB RAM, 6MB Hard Disk space, CD ROM" Does it claim one box supports all of those? Or did they have different boxes for different systems? > I thought I'd try installing it. However, there are no instructions fro > installing on LInux. THe instructions are all for installing on the > other supported OS: OS/2WARP. > > I installed wine with 'sudo apt-get install wine' and that went okay. I > went into the CD and right-clicked install.exe > Open With Other > Application ... > Wine Windows Program Loader. A terminal opened briefly > then ... nothing. I also tried the same thing with the only other two > .exe files (dux.exe and chk4dll.exe) with the same result). The unix version would not be using a .exe, so forget about that file. What else is there? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 30 16:09:40 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:09:40 -0400 Subject: speeding up bios POST In-Reply-To: <49D022ED.6040500-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <1238371023.29086.3062.camel@localhost> <49D022ED.6040500@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <1238429380.7863.186.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2009-03-29 at 20:39 -0500, teddymills wrote: > The only things I can think of are > > 1) disable unrequired devices in BIOS > 2) boot directly from the hard drive in the BIOS boot sequence > 3) choose (CS) cable select if using IDE devices > on your advice, disabled unused IDE and changed boot sequence so cdrom is not called first. also set the pug and play o/s to 'yes', which i'd never done before. these brought the 0-to-grub time down to about 8 seconds, which isn't really all that bad. still wish i could do better though! thx, matt > > > Matt Price wrote: > > hi folks, > > > > i'm building a brand-new system, which i have to say is blazing fast -- > > it's built around an asus p5n7a-vm MB, with a mid-level core2duo chip. > > I've installed ubuntu jaunty, which boots pretty quickly from grub -- > > less than 20 seconds to gnome session -- but, to me astonishingly, it > > takes 15 seconds from power-on to GRUB. this just seems crazy long, and > > I wonder what I can do to change it. The BIOS is a pretty standard > > American Megatrends AMIBIOS, on which I've enabled 'quickboot' (that did > > seem to help a little) and disabled the express gate, which wasn't > > working anyway (i'm actually not even sure if the flash module is > > installed on the board, don't really knowmuch about express-gate). but > > there are still long pauses I can't explain. so i'm wondering: is > > there a way to 'bootchart' your bios? or are there standard methods for > > speeding it up? > > > > thanks as always, > > > > matt > > > > > > ps, if someone can explain the expressgatething to me, i'd be grateful > > for that as well. i'm wondering if i could just install my main OS on a > > CF card and boot directly into that without having to go through > > BIOS... > > > > -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 30 16:14:06 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:14:06 -0400 Subject: speeding up bios POST In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880903291811x4ed97bebu45abe8eb104481c3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1238371023.29086.3062.camel@localhost> <32f6a8880903291811x4ed97bebu45abe8eb104481c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1238429646.7863.213.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2009-03-29 at 21:11 -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Matt, > > I haven't tried this, but there is an open source project that uses > linux for the bios. > > You can find details here: > > http://www.coreboot.org/Welcome_to_coreboot > > Maybe someone on the list can verify the stability of it....not sure > if you want to risk your computer. i would love to use coreboot but the chipsets on this board aren't listed anywhere on the site- - i think they're a long way away from supporting them. alas... m > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 30 17:44:55 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:44:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Firefox feature request: prevent timed page reloads after pressing Stop Message-ID: This is a problem I see with Firefox with complex broken pages that load slowly and incompletely, and then try to reload (refresh) on JavaScript timer or page refresh from html headers. Multiply this by 8-10 open tabs and one has a problem. Am I the only one who strongly believes that clicking Stop should permanently disable reloads (pulls) of that page from both JavaScript and from html header based refreshes ? tia, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 30 17:56:58 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:56:58 -0400 Subject: Firefox feature request: prevent timed page reloads after pressing Stop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090330175658.GA17179@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 05:44:55PM +0000, Peter wrote: >Am I the only one who strongly believes that clicking Stop should >permanently disable reloads (pulls) of that page from both JavaScript >and from html header based refreshes ? Would that put a stop dynamic banner adds? -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 30 18:52:20 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:52:20 -0400 Subject: Firefox feature request: prevent timed page reloads after pressing Stop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1f13df280903301152y2f432432x7db8dda952595004@mail.gmail.com> 2009/3/30 Peter : > This is a problem I see with Firefox with complex broken pages that load slowly > and incompletely, and then try to reload (refresh) on JavaScript timer or page > refresh from html headers. Multiply this by 8-10 open tabs and one has a > problem. Am I the only one who strongly believes that clicking Stop should > permanently disable reloads (pulls) of that page from both JavaScript and from > html header based refreshes ? The "Stop" button has a particular implicit meaning: "stop loading the page." It doesn't mean "stop running the javascript," and making that change would really mess with people's expectations. I can see where having another "uberStop" button could be very useful, although I don't think it should be visible by default. Or maybe it could be achieved by double-clicking on Stop. But it's a bit late to be messing with the expected Stop button behaviour. P.S. if you're not familiar with it, the NoScript add-on will go a long way to reducing your frustration. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Mar 30 19:13:06 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:13:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Firefox feature request: prevent timed page reloads after =?utf-8?b?CXByZXNzaW5n?= Stop References: <1f13df280903301152y2f432432x7db8dda952595004@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Giles Orr writes: > The "Stop" button has a particular implicit meaning: "stop loading the > page." It doesn't mean "stop running the javascript," and making that It means 'Stop loading' and that means *now*, *completely*, and forever after, or until the reload button is clicked. There are no exceptions expected for advertisers, broken slow image servers or JavaScript pull scripts that will pull undesirable data forever after. Interestingly, the Stop button becomes grayed out after being clicked but when a reload/refresh event triggers it lights up again and can be clicked to cause it to stop. In other words, the desired (by me) behavior is extra easy to implement, and, in fact, it almost works already (all they have to do is remember the Stop-button-was-clicked when the event triggers and simply deny it by self-triggering the Stop event from within itself). As to whether the Stop button should stop all JavaScript from running in the page, the answer is an emphatic YES. When I press Stop I expect the page to stop being dynamic, from all points of view, but especially from all network traffic points of view (anything that does not access the network *might* continue working or not - that can be discussed). Additionally, the Stop button lies by becoming grayed after being clicked, making the user believe that he has in fact stopped the dynamic and loading aspects of the page whereas in fact he has not done that. In fact, the 'Work Offline' choice in the File menu *should* be the way to globally disable network access, and the Stop button should do what its label says *now*, and without 'exceptions'. Using an add-on to achieve this behavior is a valid option, provided it is possible for the add-on to achieve just that action, without requiring configuration all over the place as is the case with such software. The application is not for ad stopping but for obnoxious slow reloads (and repaints) of certain 'dynamic' sites that reload the entire page content periodically (not like a stock ticker but close enough). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 31 01:54:29 2009 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:54:29 -0400 Subject: Concise Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia In-Reply-To: <20090330153315.GD3796-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49D01FF7.7050405@chrisaitken.net> <20090330153315.GD3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49D177D5.1030701@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 09:27:19PM -0400, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > >> I have an old boxed "Concise Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia". The box >> boasts, "System Requirements for UNIX: Solaris, SunOS, SGI, DEC, Alpha, >> AIX, Linux, BSD, SCO, X Windows, 8 MB RAM, 6MB Hard Disk space, CD ROM" >> > > Does it claim one box supports all of those? Or did they have different > boxes for different systems? > There's a list of 'UNIX System Requirements' and right beside that is a 'Ready for OS/2Warp NSTL Tested System Requirements' section (both on the same box). Akin to the MAC Requirements and PC Requirements I've seen on other boxed apps. > >> I thought I'd try installing it. However, there are no instructions fro >> installing on LInux. THe instructions are all for installing on the >> other supported OS: OS/2WARP. >> >> I installed wine with 'sudo apt-get install wine' and that went okay. I >> went into the CD and right-clicked install.exe > Open With Other >> Application ... > Wine Windows Program Loader. A terminal opened briefly >> then ... nothing. I also tried the same thing with the only other two >> .exe files (dux.exe and chk4dll.exe) with the same result). >> > > The unix version would not be using a .exe, so forget about that file. > That's why I tried to run it with wine. > What else is there? > chris at cpc:/media/cdrom0$ dir /media/cdrom0/* /media/cdrom0/ahd.hlp /media/cdrom0/ahdphoni.afm /media/cdrom0/ahdphon.pfb /media/cdrom0/dux.exe /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.dsc /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.pkg /media/cdrom0/install.exe /media/cdrom0/readme.txt /media/cdrom0/ahdphon.afm /media/cdrom0/ahdphoni.pfb /media/cdrom0/chk4dlls.exe /media/cdrom0/duxshelf.dll /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.icf /media/cdrom0/enc.hlp /media/cdrom0/install.in_ /media/cdrom0/renec510.dat Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 31 14:37:05 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:37:05 -0400 Subject: Concise Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia In-Reply-To: <49D177D5.1030701-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <49D01FF7.7050405@chrisaitken.net> <20090330153315.GD3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49D177D5.1030701@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20090331143705.GE3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:54:29PM -0400, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > There's a list of 'UNIX System Requirements' and right beside that is a > 'Ready for OS/2Warp NSTL Tested System Requirements' section (both on > the same box). Akin to the MAC Requirements and PC Requirements I've > seen on other boxed apps. Could be a small company that uses one box for all versions. > chris at cpc:/media/cdrom0$ dir /media/cdrom0/* > /media/cdrom0/ahd.hlp /media/cdrom0/ahdphoni.afm > /media/cdrom0/ahdphon.pfb /media/cdrom0/dux.exe > /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.dsc /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.pkg > /media/cdrom0/install.exe /media/cdrom0/readme.txt > /media/cdrom0/ahdphon.afm /media/cdrom0/ahdphoni.pfb > /media/cdrom0/chk4dlls.exe /media/cdrom0/duxshelf.dll > /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.icf /media/cdrom0/enc.hlp > /media/cdrom0/install.in_ /media/cdrom0/renec510.dat To me that looks like entirely OS/2 only stuff. There is nothing for unix there that I can see. Perhaps the unix binaries are acquired elsewhere. The .afm makes me think of adobe framemaker, which I think used to come in various unix flavours years ago. It is probably more like an adobe font metric, given the .pfb is printer font binary so we have: /media/cdrom0/ahd.hlp - OS/2 help file I suspect. /media/cdrom0/enc.hlp /media/cdrom0/ahdphoni.afm - font files /media/cdrom0/ahdphon.pfb /media/cdrom0/ahdphon.afm /media/cdrom0/ahdphoni.pfb /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.dsc - probably data files for the encyclopedia, /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.pkg - but might contain the only hope of anything /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.icf - unix related. /media/cdrom0/install.exe - OS/2 installer program. /media/cdrom0/readme.txt - a text file /media/cdrom0/chk4dlls.exe - Program something used by the installer. /media/cdrom0/dux.exe - OS/2 executable for the program. /media/cdrom0/duxshelf.dll - A library for OS/2 used by the program. /media/cdrom0/renec510.dat - A data file for the program. /media/cdrom0/install.in_ - Some date file for the installer, program compressed. So well, over all there is very little there that gives any indication of anything other than OS/2. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 31 15:49:38 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:49:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Firefox feature request: prevent timed page reloads after pressing Stop References: Message-ID: It seems that FF3 already addresses this problem: http://diveintomark.org/archives/2007/02/08/howto-block-meta-refresh To understand how useful this is, consider the case where one uses wireless access and pays per MB or GB with a monthly cap. Just reading one's favorite newspaper online with 8-9 tabs open for a few hours a day will obliterate a 1GB allocation in less than a month. I tried the NoScript and other add-ons and I think that they work great but they are far too complex and that they ask too many questions for such a simple task. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 31 19:56:15 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:56:15 -0400 Subject: cpanel Message-ID: <49D2755F.7060804@tmis.ca> Is there any open source projects that are close to cpanel? Like handgrenades and horseshoes, close might be good enough -- -------------------------------------- Teddy David Mills TMIS Linux System Administrator E: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org W1: http://vger1.dyndns.org/ W2: http://vger1.dyndns.org/wordpress -------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 31 20:08:57 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:08:57 -0400 Subject: cpanel In-Reply-To: <49D2755F.7060804-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <49D2755F.7060804@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <22E0FC89-B103-40A5-BFD9-6EF5079B5E9A@mylesbraithwaite.com> ISPConfig http://www.ispconfig.com/ Also Wikipedia helps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_hosting_control_panels --- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ Please consider the trees before print this email. On 31-Mar-09, at 3:56 PM, Teddy Mills wrote: > handgrenades -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Tue Mar 31 23:14:40 2009 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:14:40 -0400 Subject: Concise Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia In-Reply-To: <20090331143705.GE3796-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49D01FF7.7050405@chrisaitken.net> <20090330153315.GD3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49D177D5.1030701@chrisaitken.net> <20090331143705.GE3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49D2A3E0.8090904@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 09:54:29PM -0400, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > >> There's a list of 'UNIX System Requirements' and right beside that is a >> 'Ready for OS/2Warp NSTL Tested System Requirements' section (both on >> the same box). Akin to the MAC Requirements and PC Requirements I've >> seen on other boxed apps. >> > > Could be a small company that uses one box for all versions. > > >> chris at cpc:/media/cdrom0$ dir /media/cdrom0/* >> /media/cdrom0/ahd.hlp /media/cdrom0/ahdphoni.afm >> /media/cdrom0/ahdphon.pfb /media/cdrom0/dux.exe >> /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.dsc /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.pkg >> /media/cdrom0/install.exe /media/cdrom0/readme.txt >> /media/cdrom0/ahdphon.afm /media/cdrom0/ahdphoni.pfb >> /media/cdrom0/chk4dlls.exe /media/cdrom0/duxshelf.dll >> /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.icf /media/cdrom0/enc.hlp >> /media/cdrom0/install.in_ /media/cdrom0/renec510.dat >> > > To me that looks like entirely OS/2 only stuff. There is nothing for > unix there that I can see. > > Perhaps the unix binaries are acquired elsewhere. The .afm makes me > think of adobe framemaker, which I think used to come in various unix > flavours years ago. It is probably more like an adobe font metric, given the .pfb is printer font binary so we have: > > /media/cdrom0/ahd.hlp - OS/2 help file I suspect. > /media/cdrom0/enc.hlp > > /media/cdrom0/ahdphoni.afm - font files > /media/cdrom0/ahdphon.pfb > /media/cdrom0/ahdphon.afm > /media/cdrom0/ahdphoni.pfb > > /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.dsc - probably data files for the encyclopedia, > /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.pkg - but might contain the only hope of anything > /media/cdrom0/enc_cd.icf - unix related. > > /media/cdrom0/install.exe - OS/2 installer program. > > /media/cdrom0/readme.txt - a text file > > /media/cdrom0/chk4dlls.exe - Program something used by the installer. > > /media/cdrom0/dux.exe - OS/2 executable for the program. > > /media/cdrom0/duxshelf.dll - A library for OS/2 used by the program. > > /media/cdrom0/renec510.dat - A data file for the program. > > /media/cdrom0/install.in_ - Some date file for the installer, program compressed. > > So well, over all there is very little there that gives any indication > of anything other than OS/2. > Okay, I'm gonna turf it. The box does only read "For OS/2 WARP" on the /front./ But then at the back it has equal billing for System, Requirements for both "UNIX" and OS/2WARP". So, it's not about using only one box... Thanks fro your help. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists