From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 1 17:00:00 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 13:00:00 -0400 Subject: Cisco replaces GM Message-ID: <4A240910.5060703@tmis.ca> Lots of news today, but to keep somewhat on topic, Cisco replaces GM in the Dow Jones Industrial average. http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2009/06/01/cisco-replaces-gm-in-dow-jones-industrials/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_Jones_Industrial_Average -- [ Teddy David Mills System Administrator TMIS.ca ] [ Teddys Virtual Space of Sciences, Technology ] [ Music, Media, Linux and Open Source ] [ http://vger1.dyndns.org ] [ http://vger1.dyndns.org/wordpress ] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 1 20:35:17 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:35:17 -0400 Subject: Slow tranfers to USB drive In-Reply-To: <20090524222541.764edc22-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090524222541.764edc22@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090601203517.GA14769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 10:25:41PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > I'm seeing very slow transfer speeds to my USB2 multimedia drive. It's down to > about 1MB/s right now, which is pretty painful. All other USB2 devices like my > thumb drive are 'normal', ie. I usually see about 10 MB/s, give or take. > > Is it possible that this one drive (fat32) is becoming fragmented, and this is > impacting the transfer speeds? If this is a potential cause, how would I go > about defragmenting a fat32 drive without access to Windows? Maybe it is a USB1 device, or it is connected to a USB1 hub, or a hub shared with USB1 devices, or to a USB1 only port. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 1 20:44:44 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:44:44 -0400 Subject: sweet netbook In-Reply-To: References: <20090526031110.7c0b7335@teksavvy.com> <92ee967a0905260608v161c109ahbe2afc1b726ff0cf@mail.gmail.com> <4A1BF871.1010305@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090601204444.GB14769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 06:50:11PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The HP Journada series of the past was a bit like that and it didn't > fly. WinCE might have been a problem. Well just look at the "smart phones". The cell phone companies seem to think windows CE devices are great. The customers pretty much universally hate windows CE devices. > I like Linux but I don't know that it is an easy sell. Lots of > netbook manufacturers seem to have retreated from it. Of course we > think that they didn't do Linux right. Well MS dropping the XP license cost to something like $30 per netbook might have something to do with it. After all most people are used to running windows. > Sadly, Intel and MS are scared of cannibalizing sales of their > higher-price products and so, via licensing agreements, limit the > capabilities of netbooks. The 1GB ram limit is just pathetic. > I don't understand this. The ARM has been around for a while. Ditto > AMD low-power chips. Yet the netbook came out with the Atom, more or > less. Well Asus started with a celeron M, before the atom even existed (although intel was probably working on it already). > The OLPC XO may or may not have been an inspiration for the netbook. > It has an AMD CPU. Yeah, the Geode LX is quite decent. Not modern though by any means. > I admit that the original Asus netbook had a ULV Pentium M. I'm not > sure why. Because the atom did not yet exist. > Intel was trying really hard to derail or turn the OLPC project. > Maybe the Atom was part of that, but that seems insufficient > justification. > > Intel was a strong player in the ARM world (StrongARM, xscale). Maybe > when they ditched that they felt they had an exposed flank and built > the Atom to cover it. intel wants to control the market, and to some extent they control x86, but they have no way to control ARM. Just look at the graphics chips intel is working on which are x86 based (original pentium design core) but widely parallel. They want everything to be x86 based and nothing else. No ARM, no PPC, no MIPS. Just x86. > The Atom was mentioned as being aimed at things like cell phones. If > so, its power budget makes it a failure. But maybe that will improve. Well intel seems to claim it should work in a cell phone. I don't think so. > AMD and Via have had useful low power x86 processors for years. > Something I don't know made netbooks crystalize around the Atom. > Perhaps Intel seeded the OEMs with reference designs. Perhaps the > first Asus netbook showed a market. > > Perhaps it is all marketting: users thought they knew what a netbook > was when they saw it (a notebook, cut down). Maybe they didn't see > what they could do with, say, a Nokia n800 or an OLPC XO. I think Asus showed that there was a market for lower performance tiny cheap machines running normal PC software. > What are you thinking of? Those models already exist. As far as I > can tell, they are failures as platforms. The iPhone seems to be a > success. But all I hear is (some) buzz. I don't know reality. What netbooks exist that aren't x86? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 1 20:46:41 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:46:41 -0400 Subject: good deal on slim external DVD writer (useful if you bought a netbook) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090601204641.GC14769@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 11:59:46AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Today's "shell shocker(R)" from newegg.ca is a slim DVD writer that is > USB-powered at a pretty good price ($56.99 "including shipping"). > > I have no experience with this device. I have a similar device but mine > is powered by AC unfortunately. > > http://www.newegg.ca/Special/ShellShocker.aspx Well my wife just got an EEEPC 1008HA and I just picked up a SATA LG DVD recorder and a vantec 5-1/4" enclosure to put it in. Sure it is twice the size of the EEEPC, but how often does one need to install stuff from disk? Just use the network in general. That's why they call them netbooks. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mnativid-G1DYhSM1WHTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 1 22:15:24 2009 From: mnativid-G1DYhSM1WHTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Mervin Natividad) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 18:15:24 -0400 Subject: AUTO: Mervin Natividad is out of the office (returning 08/06/2009) Message-ID: I am out of the office until 08/06/2009. Note: This is an automated response to your message "[TLUG]: Cisco replaces GM" sent on 6/1/09 13:00:00. This is the only notification you will receive while this person is away. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 1 22:19:48 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 18:19:48 -0400 Subject: OT FS Heat sink Message-ID: <20090601221948.GA14498@watson-wilson.ca> Before I put it up elsewhere I thought I'd give tlug a chance. I bought a Xigmatek Thors Hammer heat sink but, it's a little to tall to fit my case. Ideal for passive cooling, if it fits. http://www.xigmatek.com/product/air-thorshammers126384.php New $72. This one $65. -- Neil Watson Linux/UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 2 02:07:36 2009 From: redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (dave jackson) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 19:07:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: recommend Tech to replace Dodgey power plug connector Message-ID: <679512.64252.qm@web31301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> G'day tlugers, -got this 4 yr old toshP100 cheap due to slight play in pp connector - have secured it with dum dum [am a ret mechanic&it was handy...] -realize the repair isn't cheap,but it's got great sound-harman kardon,etc -could You recommend a shop to do a proper job of it,please -east end of TO preferred, as live in oshawa area cheers, dave jackson __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 2 22:03:33 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:03:33 -0400 Subject: Slides from May talk now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello 2009/5/15 Robert Brockway > http://www.timetraveller.org/talks/backup_talk.pdf > > Some small additions and corrections are planned as I'll use the slides > again one day. > I am wondering if there is anyone in the list who have used oracle secure backup and would like to share with us some of the pro and cons of that particular application or just general opinion on the experience working with OSB. For example, how does it compare with other general backup software. And yes, according to oracle, OSB is a general backup application. http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/secure-backup/pdf/intro_osb_10.2.pdf >From their documentation, it sound like the ultimate backup solution out there. Not that I am falling for that marketing info. Regards, William > > Rob > > -- > I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pkozlenko-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 3 03:06:59 2009 From: pkozlenko-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Paul Kozlenko) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 23:06:59 -0400 Subject: Slides from May talk now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1243998419.29391.7.camel@pkozlenk-desktop> Rob, The backup_talk.pdf is good general knowledge information that some need reminding of once in a while - thanks for posting it. Concise and a good refresher. On a side note (I may show my lack of knowledge here). If you created the PDF, how did you create the links at the bottom of each page that allow it to function as a slide show? What did you use? - Paul On Tue, 2009-06-02 at 18:03 -0400, William Muriithi wrote: > Hello > > 2009/5/15 Robert Brockway > http://www.timetraveller.org/talks/backup_talk.pdf > > Some small additions and corrections are planned as I'll use > the slides again one day. > > > I am wondering if there is anyone in the list who have used oracle > secure backup and would like to share with us some of the pro and cons > of that particular application or just general opinion on the > experience working with OSB. For example, how does it compare with > other general backup software. And yes, according to oracle, OSB is a > general backup application. > > http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/secure-backup/pdf/intro_osb_10.2.pdf > > > From their documentation, it sound like the ultimate backup solution > out there. Not that I am falling for that marketing info. > > Regards, > > William > > > > > Rob > > -- > I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 3 15:02:05 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:02:05 -0400 Subject: changing a laptop's speed (governor) Message-ID: <4A26906D.9060307@alteeve.com> Hi all, My Thinkpad running Ubuntu 9.04 seems to almost always run at the slowest CPU speed. Great for battery life, I guess, but when I am plugged in I would much rather the performance. Anyone have any pointers for telling a laptop to run in performance mode? Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 3 15:25:51 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:25:51 -0400 Subject: changing a laptop's speed (governor) In-Reply-To: <4A26906D.9060307-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A26906D.9060307@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 6/3/09, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > My Thinkpad running Ubuntu 9.04 seems to almost always run at the > slowest CPU speed. Great for battery life, I guess, but when I am > plugged in I would much rather the performance. > > Anyone have any pointers for telling a laptop to run in performance mode? Don't know how to change this under Ubuntu. I did have an old Toshiba laptop that would let me change the performance level easily in the BIOS and then that would stick when I ran Debian... Colin McGregor > Thanks! > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 3 15:35:57 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:35:57 -0400 Subject: changing a laptop's speed (governor) In-Reply-To: References: <4A26906D.9060307@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4A26985D.7030408@telly.org> Colin McGregor wrote: > On 6/3/09, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> My Thinkpad running Ubuntu 9.04 seems to almost always run at the >> slowest CPU speed. Great for battery life, I guess, but when I am >> plugged in I would much rather the performance. >> >> Anyone have any pointers for telling a laptop to run in performance mode? >> > > Don't know how to change this under Ubuntu. I did have an old Toshiba > laptop that would let me change the performance level easily in the > BIOS and then that would stick when I ran Debian... > I think this is CPU or model specific. There is a tool available for Atom-based netbooks that allows them to change CPU mode (from high-performance to energy saving). I also recall some thinkpad utilities. But I don't think there's anything generic. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffliutor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 3 15:49:48 2009 From: jeffliutor-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jeff Liu) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:49:48 -0400 Subject: changing a laptop's speed (governor) In-Reply-To: <4A26906D.9060307-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A26906D.9060307@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3263242b0906030849h16087410qa2872b16c898ac3c@mail.gmail.com> Hi Madi, You can run "cpufreq-selector -c cpu# -g performance" if the CPU supports (not very old). Cheers, Jeff On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > My Thinkpad running Ubuntu 9.04 seems to almost always run at the slowest > CPU speed. Great for battery life, I guess, but when I am plugged in I would > much rather the performance. > > Anyone have any pointers for telling a laptop to run in performance mode? > > Thanks! > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 3 16:25:26 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 12:25:26 -0400 Subject: changing a laptop's speed (governor) In-Reply-To: <3263242b0906030849h16087410qa2872b16c898ac3c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A26906D.9060307@alteeve.com> <3263242b0906030849h16087410qa2872b16c898ac3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A26A3F6.4040306@alteeve.com> Jeff Liu wrote: > Hi Madi, > > You can run "cpufreq-selector -c cpu# -g performance" if the CPU > supports (not very old). > > Cheers, > > Jeff Thanks for the reply! Apparently, I was doing it right, but I needed to edit: /etc/default/cpufreqd And set: CPUFREQ_CPU_MODULE="speedstep-centrino" For it to actually work right. :) Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 3 19:45:15 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:45:15 -0400 Subject: Mapping party this Sunday Message-ID: <1244058315.5085.8.camel@leon> Hi all, Another OpenStreetMap mapping party this Sunday from noon in the Bayview Village area of Toronto. Please rsvp with the meetup link. http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Toronto/calendar/10345433/ See you there. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 4 12:53:42 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 08:53:42 -0400 Subject: [OT} Microsft Announces ... Message-ID: <4A27C3D6.6030705@rogers.com> BING which stands for "But It's Not Google!" I guess Redmond has a sense of humour I never appreciated before! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 4 13:00:37 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:00:37 -0400 Subject: [OT} Microsft Announces ... In-Reply-To: <4A27C3D6.6030705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A27C3D6.6030705@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0906040600k84cc9a5m61417950a11eb133@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Stephen wrote: > BING > > which stands for > > "But It's Not Google!" > > I guess Redmond has a sense of humour I never appreciated before! Every time I hear that name I can't help but think of Monty Python's skit about the machine that goes "BING!" ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 4 13:24:25 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:24:25 -0400 Subject: [OT} Microsft Announces ... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0906040600k84cc9a5m61417950a11eb133-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A27C3D6.6030705@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0906040600k84cc9a5m61417950a11eb133@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090604092425.156de953.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:00:37 -0400 Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Stephen wrote: > > BING > > > > which stands for > > > > "But It's Not Google!" > > > > I guess Redmond has a sense of humour I never appreciated before! > > Every time I hear that name I can't help but think of Monty Python's > skit about the machine that goes "BING!" ;-) > > -- > Scott Elcomb Scott, I am pretty certain that machine went "Ping!" -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 4 13:31:11 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 09:31:11 -0400 Subject: [OT} Microsft Announces ... In-Reply-To: <4A27C3D6.6030705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A27C3D6.6030705@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A27CC9F.3080706@linuxcaffe.ca> Stephen wrote: > BING > > which stands for > > "But It's Not Google!" > > I guess Redmond has a sense of humour I never appreciated before! the folks at google have a sense of humour, too. so where would www.bingisnotgoogle.com go ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 4 14:02:50 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 10:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Voip in Toronto In-Reply-To: <92ee967a0905191009m5704da03ic61fb2f16ab60181-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <722741.88644.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880905190735k3f79c66av941e0ee0bb841aba@mail.gmail.com> <494887.57727.qm@web59501.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <92ee967a0905191009m5704da03ic61fb2f16ab60181@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 May 2009, Mike Kallies wrote: > For what I need it for, call quality isn't all that critical.. > as long as it is *reasonable*. A friend of family use VOIP service for her main phone, so the quality should be reasonable: http://www.italkbb.com/bb/enc/enc_index.asp It had a sign up table in Pacific Mall - at least until the last time I went there few weeks ago - where you get a gift when signing up, at least at one time the gift include a Linksys ATA router. Another service (don't know how good): http://www.telehop.com/homephone/index.php -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 4 18:51:20 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:51:20 -0400 Subject: Blackberry browser Message-ID: Hello pals, This is a curiosity question with no practical drive, but what the heck. Would anyone know of the genealogy of blackberry browser? I was reading some of their - blackberry - security updates and they seem related to some of the IE issues. I am now suspecting it could be a licensed version of IE or something. Is this correct by any chance? Regards, William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 4 23:51:53 2009 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:51:53 -0400 Subject: Cisco replaces GM In-Reply-To: <4A240910.5060703-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4A240910.5060703@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4A285E19.5000009@utoronto.ca> Warning! Off topic leftist rant follows: That's why when I hear historical analysis of the DJIA (Dow Jones Industrial Average) my blood pressure goes through the roof. They don't take into account the fact that the analysis is completely bogus because companies get replaced. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 00:37:43 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 20:37:43 -0400 Subject: Cisco replaces GM In-Reply-To: <4A285E19.5000009-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A240910.5060703@tmis.ca> <4A285E19.5000009@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Warning! Off topic leftist rant follows: > > That's why when I hear historical analysis of the DJIA (Dow Jones > Industrial Average) my blood pressure goes through the roof. They don't > take into account the fact that the analysis is completely bogus because > companies get replaced. I don't see anything notably "leftist" there... I'm not usually considered on the "left wing of the bird," and I consider the problems with the DJIA to be sufficiently serious as to make it pretty much utter rubbish from an analytic standpoint. After all: - 30 members are too small to be a meaningfully stable portfolio - As you observe, replacements lead to *large* changes in the behaviour of the portfolio - There are hard-to-observe and harder-to-grasp weighting factors thrown in to account for differences in stock prices (stock splits are the most obvious cause for need of this) In effect, it's a big popularity contest, the stock market equivalent to a beauty pageant, with aspects every bit as crass as the bikini competition. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Helen Rowland - "One man's folly is another man's wife." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/h/helen_rowland.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 01:58:07 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:58:07 -0400 Subject: SMART Need yo replace boot drive Message-ID: <4A287BAF.6000102@rogers.com> Got this warning so weekend project is swapping the boot drive. I have a three drive system and the home directories are on a healthy drive. I will need to download and and burn the latest Ubuntu. I will save copies of the ini files for Apache and Samba. I use the computer as a LAMP development box, and the only significant data is my web sites, which I also backup routinely. Is there anything else that I should consider? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 02:19:00 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:19:00 -0400 Subject: SMART Need yo replace boot drive In-Reply-To: <4A287BAF.6000102-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A287BAF.6000102@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A288094.6030907@utoronto.ca> Stephen wrote: > Got this warning so weekend project is swapping the boot drive. > > I have a three drive system and the home directories are on a healthy > drive. > > I will need to download and and burn the latest Ubuntu. I will save > copies of the ini files for > Apache and Samba. I use the computer as a LAMP development box, and the > only > significant data is my web sites, which I also backup routinely. > > Is there anything else that I should consider? You can setup grub on one of the healthy drives and copy /boot onto it. No need to reinstall. When you get your new drive, lather, rinse, and repeat. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alex.s.maynard2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 15:13:50 2009 From: alex.s.maynard2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 11:13:50 -0400 Subject: ssh-key access works and then fails on new ubuntu install Message-ID: <185fc6840906050813m440e387cj79df38f406cab31f@mail.gmail.com> I recently reinstalled from ubuntu-gutsy to ubuntu-jaunty. As part of the installation process I run some messy scripts to customise a few things, one of them being to set up ssh-access from my laptop by the ssh key system. Essentially, I just copy over an old version of sshd_config into /etc/ssh/ and authorized_keys for my laptop into .ssh files for both root and user. After doing this, user logon from my laptop using the ssh-key worked and then stopped working. Root logon kept working. In the meantime, I had installed a large list of applications. (I could copy in the list if its useful.) Is it possible that one of them changed something? Are there files other then authorized key files or sshd_config that I should be looking at? I'm a bit puzzled by this and grateful for any suggestions you might have. Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 18:16:05 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:16:05 -0600 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time Message-ID: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> Hello, Considering my experience with Linux this seems to be a problem a should have fixed by now, but it's an problem I'm growing particularly annoyed with. I notice that over time Linux desktops I use tend to get sluggish. I know this is true for at least Ubuntu and Fedorah. I don't remember feeling it as much on Debian, but it's been a while. Anyway, here goes. Sometimes I leave my home Ubuntu machine on for a while; I'm talking like 2-3 weeks, maybe more. Sometimes I run CPU-intensive apps for a few hours, then leave it idle for days. It just seems like over time, the machine gets increasingly unresponsive. After rebooting and opening up Thunderbird, the new message window pops up right away. After several weeks it takes twice the amount of time or more. And, while I thought maybe the GUI/X/Video Driver (nVidia Quadro NVS 290) might be to blame, the sluggishness is noticeable even when I ssh into my machine from outside.. so it's not just GUI response time. But sometimes the problem is less noticeable if I restart X, so .. We're talking about a new Intel Core 2 Duo, 3.0 GHz with 4 GB of RAM. For a while I suspected Gnome was the culprit. Could it be? This seems way less noticeable when I use fluxbox, but alas, I need a user-friendly desktop for the girlfriend. I suspect this may be due to processes left open that consume most of memory but the problem persists even after killing some of those large processes. I know for a fact that Ubuntu comes with a lot of little trinkets that are spiffy and supposed to make "Linux easier to use" or more modern but sometimes they can slow the machine down. Compiz, for example, is a culprit. Pulseaudio too. *But* even after removing these unneeded apps the problem still happens. So, to my question... does anybody know what is going on here and has been through similar trouble? I suspect that it is memory/virtual memory related.. like, over time the OS doesn't handle memory management as well by default, but if I set a few flags this will all magically change. I don't want to take the easy way out and just reboot; I want to understand what the problem is. Linux's performance is one of the main reasons I initially ditched Windows (don't worry, there have been a lot of reasons since that have made me stick with it), and now it seems like many distros are going the "unneeded bloat" route... it makes me sad. I just hope it -- meaning my particular problem -- can be fixed. Thanks, Marc -- Theory is when you know something, but it doesn't work. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. Programmers combine theory and practice: Nothing works and they don't know why. -- Anonymous -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 18:29:03 2009 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 14:29:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <4A2960E5.9020208-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <10836.99.253.254.243.1244226543.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Not a problem on this Suse Linux system, version 10.1 (I think). Peter > Hello, > > Considering my experience with Linux this seems to be a problem a should > have fixed by now, but it's an problem I'm growing particularly annoyed > with. > > I notice that over time Linux desktops I use tend to get sluggish. I > know this is true for at least Ubuntu and Fedorah. I don't remember > feeling it as much on Debian, but it's been a while. > > Anyway, here goes. Sometimes I leave my home Ubuntu machine on for a > while; I'm talking like 2-3 weeks, maybe more. Sometimes I run > CPU-intensive apps for a few hours, then leave it idle for days. It just > seems like over time, the machine gets increasingly unresponsive. After > rebooting and opening up Thunderbird, the new message window pops up > right away. After several weeks it takes twice the amount of time or > more. And, while I thought maybe the GUI/X/Video Driver (nVidia Quadro > NVS 290) might be to blame, the sluggishness is noticeable even when I > ssh into my machine from outside.. so it's not just GUI response time. > But sometimes the problem is less noticeable if I restart X, so .. > > We're talking about a new Intel Core 2 Duo, 3.0 GHz with 4 GB of RAM. > > For a while I suspected Gnome was the culprit. Could it be? This seems > way less noticeable when I use fluxbox, but alas, I need a user-friendly > desktop for the girlfriend. > > I suspect this may be due to processes left open that consume most of > memory but the problem persists even after killing some of those large > processes. > > I know for a fact that Ubuntu comes with a lot of little trinkets that > are spiffy and supposed to make "Linux easier to use" or more modern but > sometimes they can slow the machine down. Compiz, for example, is a > culprit. Pulseaudio too. *But* even after removing these unneeded apps > the problem still happens. > > So, to my question... does anybody know what is going on here and has > been through similar trouble? I suspect that it is memory/virtual memory > related.. like, over time the OS doesn't handle memory management as > well by default, but if I set a few flags this will all magically > change. I don't want to take the easy way out and just reboot; I want to > understand what the problem is. > > Linux's performance is one of the main reasons I initially ditched > Windows (don't worry, there have been a lot of reasons since that have > made me stick with it), and now it seems like many distros are going the > "unneeded bloat" route... it makes me sad. I just hope it -- meaning my > particular problem -- can be fixed. > > Thanks, > Marc > > -- > Theory is when you know something, but it doesn't work. Practice > is when something works, but you don't know why. Programmers combine > theory and practice: Nothing works and they don't know why. > -- Anonymous > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 18:58:07 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 14:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <4A2960E5.9020208-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: | From: Marc Lanctot | I notice that over time Linux desktops I use tend to get sluggish. I have not noticed this. I leave my Fedora 10 desktop up for weeks. Except recently: I install updates that make me want to reboot more often than that. I do leave Firefox on for long periods. It has leaks and gets slower. Luckily it also has bugs: crashes let it start over again. Just for fun, I leave Gnome's "system monitor" on my panel. It can show lots of stuff. It would be good to find out what your system's problem is. If it is userland CPU usage, top(1) should tell you. If it is kernel CPU usage, that is trickier. Consider running a known finite CPU hog task when things are good to find out the real time it takes. Then try it again when things are sluggissh. If it is memory usage, the top(1) command letter "M" sorts the task list by %MEM. The %RES column is probably interesting. If it is network traffic, study why. tcpdump(8) is a brute force tool. There are many others (i.e. I don't have any recommentations). Maybe netstat(8). It could be disk I/O. I don't know how to tell which process is responsible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 19:10:03 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:10:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Dell sells EBook reader based on Linux Message-ID: http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Gadgets_Internet_Devices/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=A2845831 This is $260 this week, $40 off normal. This is called the "Libre Electronic Book Reader Pro" by Aluratek. EBook readers are usually infested with DRM. I have no idea if this one is. Things that I noted: - OS is Linux (but does not imply that it is hackable) - only 640 x 480 display (less than my Nokia n800) - Arm9 processor at 200MHz; 1GB flash; 32MB RAM - battery supports "up to 22 hours" of continuous use. - 227g - Formats Supported : HTML, EBA, EBAML (EBA2.0), TXT, PDF, BMP, JPG, GIF, Animated GIF, MP3 Note: Expected Release Date: July 24th 2009 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 19:23:35 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:23:35 -0400 Subject: Dell sells EBook reader based on Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A2970B7.7000601@telly.org> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Gadgets_Internet_Devices/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=A2845831 > > This is $260 this week, $40 off normal. > > This is called the "Libre Electronic Book Reader Pro" by Aluratek. > Note that Dell already sells the Sony Ebook reader: http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Gadgets_Internet_Devices/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=A1629897 > EBook readers are usually infested with DRM. I have no idea if this one is. > I note that the main DRM-infested format (Mobipocket, the native format of the Kindle) is not supported. Unfortunately, neither is the main Kindle-alternative format, EPUB, an open standard is supported by Adobe (with its Digital Editions reader), Google, Sony and others. (Reading under Linux is handled by the OSS project "Calibre". Adding to the uncertainty is the fact there's no mention of this unit at the Aluratek website to verify the EPUB compatibility. So unless they change their specs this is a useful ebook reader only if all your ebooks are (and forever will be) PDFs; I'd pass. The Sony reader works fine with PDFs and EPUB. More information on the epub standard is available at openebook.org -Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 19:42:38 2009 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:42:38 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <4A2960E5.9020208-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Hello, > > Considering my experience with Linux this seems to be a problem a should > have fixed by now, but it's an problem I'm growing particularly annoyed > with. > > I notice that over time Linux desktops I use tend to get sluggish. I know > this is true for at least Ubuntu and Fedorah. I don't remember feeling it as > much on Debian, but it's been a while. I use Windowmaker as my desktop, and about the only thing that slows it down to a crawl is Thunderbird. At work I have a dual core processor, so while one core is getting monopolized by TBird, the other core is doing Everything Else. At home I have a regular single core, so TBird hogs my machine for 30-45 seconds on startup (login, I guess I should say), and sometimes when downloading messages. I leave my machine on for months -- right now I think it's been up for 90 days. I log out after each session; I assume that cleans a few things up. See if you have the same slowness when TBird isn't running -- that's my vote. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 19:58:31 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:58:31 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <4A2960E5.9020208-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20090605195831.GA22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 12:16:05PM -0600, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Considering my experience with Linux this seems to be a problem a should > have fixed by now, but it's an problem I'm growing particularly annoyed > with. > > I notice that over time Linux desktops I use tend to get sluggish. I > know this is true for at least Ubuntu and Fedorah. I don't remember > feeling it as much on Debian, but it's been a while. > > Anyway, here goes. Sometimes I leave my home Ubuntu machine on for a > while; I'm talking like 2-3 weeks, maybe more. Sometimes I run > CPU-intensive apps for a few hours, then leave it idle for days. It just > seems like over time, the machine gets increasingly unresponsive. After > rebooting and opening up Thunderbird, the new message window pops up > right away. After several weeks it takes twice the amount of time or > more. And, while I thought maybe the GUI/X/Video Driver (nVidia Quadro > NVS 290) might be to blame, the sluggishness is noticeable even when I > ssh into my machine from outside.. so it's not just GUI response time. > But sometimes the problem is less noticeable if I restart X, so .. > > We're talking about a new Intel Core 2 Duo, 3.0 GHz with 4 GB of RAM. > > For a while I suspected Gnome was the culprit. Could it be? This seems > way less noticeable when I use fluxbox, but alas, I need a user-friendly > desktop for the girlfriend. > > I suspect this may be due to processes left open that consume most of > memory but the problem persists even after killing some of those large > processes. > > I know for a fact that Ubuntu comes with a lot of little trinkets that > are spiffy and supposed to make "Linux easier to use" or more modern but > sometimes they can slow the machine down. Compiz, for example, is a > culprit. Pulseaudio too. *But* even after removing these unneeded apps > the problem still happens. > > So, to my question... does anybody know what is going on here and has > been through similar trouble? I suspect that it is memory/virtual memory > related.. like, over time the OS doesn't handle memory management as > well by default, but if I set a few flags this will all magically > change. I don't want to take the easy way out and just reboot; I want to > understand what the problem is. > > Linux's performance is one of the main reasons I initially ditched > Windows (don't worry, there have been a lot of reasons since that have > made me stick with it), and now it seems like many distros are going the > "unneeded bloat" route... it makes me sad. I just hope it -- meaning my > particular problem -- can be fixed. Anything from mozilla.org leaks memory, and often quite badly. firefox 3 not as bad as 2, but still leaks. thunderbird does too. They share a lot of old netscape libraries, which are likely part of the problem. Unfortunately given the way x servers allocate memory and give it to applications and expect them to free it can cause some issues with leaks over time if X applications are not extremely well written, since closing the application doesn't cause an automatic free of the memory. Restarting the X server of course does free the memory. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 20:00:45 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:00:45 -0600 Subject: Replacing or fixing the bloat that is Thunderbird (was "Re: : Linux desktop sluggish over time") In-Reply-To: References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <4A29796D.7090303@ualberta.ca> Alex Beamish wrote: > On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Considering my experience with Linux this seems to be a problem a should >> have fixed by now, but it's an problem I'm growing particularly annoyed >> with. >> >> I notice that over time Linux desktops I use tend to get sluggish. I know >> this is true for at least Ubuntu and Fedorah. I don't remember feeling it as >> much on Debian, but it's been a while. > > I use Windowmaker as my desktop, and about the only thing that slows > it down to a crawl is Thunderbird. At work I have a dual core > processor, so while one core is getting monopolized by TBird, the > other core is doing Everything Else. At home I have a regular single > core, so TBird hogs my machine for 30-45 seconds on startup (login, I > guess I should say), and sometimes when downloading messages. > > I leave my machine on for months -- right now I think it's been up for > 90 days. I log out after each session; I assume that cleans a few > things up. > > See if you have the same slowness when TBird isn't running -- that's my vote. TB causes noticeable slow-downs. Allow me to spawn another discussion out of this. :) I've been considering replacing TBird because of this "bloat", but I can't find another, lighter mailer that have all the things I like most about Thunderbird: - GUI-based. As much as I love using mutt through ssh, I need something a little more usable - proper IMAP filters; I can filter an incoming email into a server-side IMAP folder. AFAIK even Evolution can't do this. What gives? - quick search on subject and sender mailboxes (in TB you can do this without having to use a menu bar.. there's a text box for it that works as you start typing) - support for multiple accounts, multiple SMTPs, SSL for both IMAP and SMTP. - integration with a centralized calendar that can remind me of upcoming events. In particular google calendar, with both read *and* write access. This isn't essential, but it is really sweet to have. - support for NNTP and RSS a plus but not required Do all these nice things require such a massive app? Is there a way we can make TB a little more efficient? Marc -- Theory is when you know something, but it doesn't work. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. Programmers combine theory and practice: Nothing works and they don't know why. -- Anonymous -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 20:08:15 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:08:15 -0400 Subject: Dell sells EBook reader based on Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090605200815.GB22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 03:10:03PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Gadgets_Internet_Devices/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=A2845831 > > This is $260 this week, $40 off normal. > > This is called the "Libre Electronic Book Reader Pro" by Aluratek. > > EBook readers are usually infested with DRM. I have no idea if this one > is. > > Things that I noted: > > - OS is Linux (but does not imply that it is hackable) > > - only 640 x 480 display (less than my Nokia n800) > > - Arm9 processor at 200MHz; 1GB flash; 32MB RAM > > - battery supports "up to 22 hours" of continuous use. > > - 227g > > - Formats Supported : HTML, EBA, EBAML (EBA2.0), TXT, PDF, BMP, JPG, GIF, > Animated GIF, MP3 > > Note: Expected Release Date: July 24th 2009 I believe the display on the sony 505 is 800x600 with 8 level grey scale. It too runs linux, although I don't know if anyone has bothered to hack it. Battery life is supposed to be 7500 page turns. If you play mp3's on it, well then you are just nuts. Get a tiny mp3 player instead. The list of supported file formats looks similar, although I don't see LIT or EPUB listed above. The sony is about 2/3 as thick too which is rather nice. So, my wife has the sony prs-505, as do a few other people I know. It's very sloid, nicely designed, works well and costs $300. This one honestly looks clumsy and cheap in comparison for slightly smaller screen (but a bit more flash space). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 20:24:02 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:24:02 -0400 Subject: Replacing or fixing the bloat that is Thunderbird (was "Re: [TLUG]: Linux desktop sluggish over time") In-Reply-To: <4A29796D.7090303-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> <4A29796D.7090303@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Alex Beamish wrote: >> >> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> Considering my experience with Linux this seems to be a problem a should >>> have fixed by now, but it's an problem I'm growing particularly annoyed >>> with. >>> >>> I notice that over time Linux desktops I use tend to get sluggish. I know >>> this is true for at least Ubuntu and Fedorah. I don't remember feeling it >>> as >>> much on Debian, but it's been a while. >> >> I use Windowmaker as my desktop, and about the only thing that slows >> it down to a crawl is Thunderbird. At work I have a dual core >> processor, so while one core is getting monopolized by TBird, the >> other core is doing Everything Else. At home I have a regular single >> core, so TBird hogs my machine for 30-45 seconds on startup (login, I >> guess I should say), and sometimes when downloading messages. >> >> I leave my machine on for months -- right now I think it's been up for >> 90 days. I log out after each session; I assume that cleans a few >> things up. >> >> See if you have the same slowness when TBird isn't running -- that's my >> vote. > > TB causes noticeable slow-downs. > > Allow me to spawn another discussion out of this. :) > > I've been considering replacing TBird because of this "bloat", but I can't > find another, lighter mailer that have all the things I like most about > Thunderbird: > > - GUI-based. As much as I love using mutt through ssh, I need something a > little more usable > > - proper IMAP filters; I can filter an incoming email into a server-side > IMAP folder. AFAIK even Evolution can't do this. What gives? > > - quick search on subject and sender mailboxes (in TB you can do this > without having to use a menu bar.. there's a text box for it that works as > you start typing) > > - support for multiple accounts, multiple SMTPs, SSL for both IMAP and SMTP. > > - integration with a centralized calendar that can remind me of upcoming > events. In particular google calendar, with both read *and* write access. > This isn't essential, but it is really sweet to have. > > - support for NNTP and RSS a plus but not required > > Do all these nice things require such a massive app? Is there a way we can > make TB a little more efficient? > > Marc > You should try Claws Mail. It should do most, if not all, of the things you like. B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 20:59:02 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:59:02 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <4A2960E5.9020208-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20090605165902.7b0e3492.tleslie@tcn.net> i have noticed this at times with some distros, things to watch out for: vmware running a windows virtual OS .. windows can go off and do some crazy ass things, and maybe vmware is being tricked up to vm swapping, especially if a app is leaking memory. beagle and other search applications running in the background. flash in firefox, flash sux large! can't wait till mono/moonlight stomps it out, flash is generaly the main thing that kill linux in performance, and in ability to get ahead on the desktop one day i read a article about settings of hinting, and font quality, and went into my setting, and max'd out everything on hinting and quality .. and yeah it looked better .. then i forgot i did that. A few days went by, sort of noticed a few apps lagging, got really bad, this font quality, mixed with large OO files (xls, doc, etc), on the desktop, with virtual desktops, doing flipping back and forth, and with overlayed windows, seems to trigger a tonne of unnecessary redraws in the app, and sometimes your not aware of it. There is some settings in the xorg.conf file for font cache type things on nvidia chipset that help. aside from top and other monitoring, be aware of sys% in tasks, also flash drives have bitten me in the past to, causing weird slow downs, but the newer highspeed ones certainly don't. check vmstat for IN's and CS's getting crasy, in fact run "vmstat 1" and log it, when your system is good, nd when its bad and look for diff's -tl On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:16:05 -0600 Marc Lanctot wrote: > Hello, > > Considering my experience with Linux this seems to be a problem a should > have fixed by now, but it's an problem I'm growing particularly annoyed > with. > > I notice that over time Linux desktops I use tend to get sluggish. I > know this is true for at least Ubuntu and Fedorah. I don't remember > feeling it as much on Debian, but it's been a while. > > Anyway, here goes. Sometimes I leave my home Ubuntu machine on for a > while; I'm talking like 2-3 weeks, maybe more. Sometimes I run > CPU-intensive apps for a few hours, then leave it idle for days. It just > seems like over time, the machine gets increasingly unresponsive. After > rebooting and opening up Thunderbird, the new message window pops up > right away. After several weeks it takes twice the amount of time or > more. And, while I thought maybe the GUI/X/Video Driver (nVidia Quadro > NVS 290) might be to blame, the sluggishness is noticeable even when I > ssh into my machine from outside.. so it's not just GUI response time. > But sometimes the problem is less noticeable if I restart X, so .. > > We're talking about a new Intel Core 2 Duo, 3.0 GHz with 4 GB of RAM. > > For a while I suspected Gnome was the culprit. Could it be? This seems > way less noticeable when I use fluxbox, but alas, I need a user-friendly > desktop for the girlfriend. > > I suspect this may be due to processes left open that consume most of > memory but the problem persists even after killing some of those large > processes. > > I know for a fact that Ubuntu comes with a lot of little trinkets that > are spiffy and supposed to make "Linux easier to use" or more modern but > sometimes they can slow the machine down. Compiz, for example, is a > culprit. Pulseaudio too. *But* even after removing these unneeded apps > the problem still happens. > > So, to my question... does anybody know what is going on here and has > been through similar trouble? I suspect that it is memory/virtual memory > related.. like, over time the OS doesn't handle memory management as > well by default, but if I set a few flags this will all magically > change. I don't want to take the easy way out and just reboot; I want to > understand what the problem is. > > Linux's performance is one of the main reasons I initially ditched > Windows (don't worry, there have been a lot of reasons since that have > made me stick with it), and now it seems like many distros are going the > "unneeded bloat" route... it makes me sad. I just hope it -- meaning my > particular problem -- can be fixed. > > Thanks, > Marc > > -- > Theory is when you know something, but it doesn't work. Practice > is when something works, but you don't know why. Programmers combine > theory and practice: Nothing works and they don't know why. > -- Anonymous > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 23:02:12 2009 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:02:12 -0400 Subject: OT Linux Caffe on CBC In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570905301115h4e442dep43a533a1f0306d15-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <58384.72.37.171.60.1243692053.squirrel@72.37.171.60> <7c50d3570905301115h4e442dep43a533a1f0306d15@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090605230211.GA6969@malcolmson.ca> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 02:15:14PM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote: > > I just found the Linux Caffe recently, I've been by it tonnes of times > but never really noticed it until Tuesday when I was riding home from > a friend's place on my bike. So many reasons to ride one's bike. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 5 23:45:09 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:45:09 -0400 Subject: OT Linux Caffe on CBC In-Reply-To: <20090605230211.GA6969-mQDsgmoLwK2nS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org> References: <58384.72.37.171.60.1243692053.squirrel@72.37.171.60> <7c50d3570905301115h4e442dep43a533a1f0306d15@mail.gmail.com> <20090605230211.GA6969@malcolmson.ca> Message-ID: <7c50d3570906051645j68191c45qe5d34083b04eb41@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 19:02, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 02:15:14PM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote: >> >> I just found the Linux Caffe recently, I've been by it tonnes of times >> but never really noticed it until Tuesday when I was riding home from >> a friend's place on my bike. > > So many reasons to ride one's bike. > > This is the first bike I've owned since 2000, and I've only been back in the city for almost a year.... -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 6 00:36:04 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 20:36:04 -0400 Subject: Troubleshooting erratic network performance Message-ID: <4A29B9F4.5080909@utoronto.ca> So it had to happen sometime. Friday, 4:30pm, developers go live with a new release. Server performs just fine until someone upgrades something and damn, I'm stuck in the server room on a gorgeous Friday night. Hardware: 1) Sun Xfire 4600, 16 core opteron /w 32gb ram. A beast. 2) Quad Intel 82546EB Gigabit ports 3) Old and new ethernet cables 4) 4 other identical machines that haven't showed any signs of trouble. OS: 1) 2.6.29-gentoo-r5 kernel /w e1000 ethernet driver loaded as a module. 2) 2.6.25-gentoo-r7 kernel /w e1000 ethernet driver loaded as a module. Symptoms: 1) At first it looked like apache was having a problem with mod_rails. Disabled that, nope, still erratic timeouts on web pages. Disabled mod_proxy_ajp, still odd slowdowns. MaxClients are fine etc. Server had 60 days of uptime, during which time it performed admirably. The problem seems limited to apache, but then again, apart from a bit of mail, there isn't much network throughput apart from it, so it's kind of hard to diagnose without installing a whole other webserver. 2) ab run from another host on gigabit link behind the same switch comes in at a paltry 1.93 pages/second. Usually 50-100 is to be expected depending on the vhost being served. 2) vmstat looks absolutely normal, like it has for the last 60 days. No blocking processes, cpu almost 100% idle, i/o is negligible. 3) smartctl shows all 4 sas drives in the raid5 array are healthy, as does /proc/mdstat. No disk problems that I can see. 4) Outgoing network throughput is as expected, full kernel from kernel.org in seconds. 5) netstat shows about 300 connections at any given time, no large fluctuations at all. 6) The only odd looking graph (using munin) is the fork rate. I think the spike I see of 150 forks/second is apache starting up after rebooting though. Probably a red herring. 7) tcpdump shows dropped packets sometimes when the problem is occurring. Only sometimes. iptables looks fine, and ifconfig doesn't show any dropped packets. I'm not too familiar with tcpdump, but I made sure to grab some packets so I can pore over them and try to glean something. *Any tips as to what to look for would be appreciated.* Haven't looked at sysctl settings at all, things have been fine up until now, and the other admin rebooted so I'd expect that any odd problem somewhere in the bowels of the system's tcp stack would have gone away. Any thoughts or suggestions of where to look next? I consider myself a capable admin for basic stuff like setting up apache, databases etc., but this problem has me completely baffled. I'd swap the disks to another chassis, but some may recall a problem I had with the same servers a month ago where switching ip addresses and mac addresses takes 6 hours of so for the switch to realize what's happened, so that's probably a no go. Thanks! Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 6 02:57:07 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 22:57:07 -0400 Subject: Troubleshooting erratic network performance In-Reply-To: <4A29B9F4.5080909-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A29B9F4.5080909@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20090605225707.03b3c5ad.tleslie@tcn.net> i ran into similar issue, but with mine, it was a iptables limit: avg ####/sec burst # type policy, that got exceeded, as limit was hit, some people noticed issue, as it was really hit hard, everyone got timeouts. you're fine one minute, then the threshold get hits, and boom! users start refreshing away, starts a queue, then the limit is almost always being exceeded, and it melts down, as long as your sure no errors or drops in ifconfig, you can rule out duplex issue to the switch. i assume you check the apache error logs? i assume with no one hitting it, you get perfect responce? to rule aid more in ruling in or out the web server (vs. network), you could use iptables to forward traffic to one of the other boxes. as for the arp cache, just config the ethernet card (new one), or new box with the same MAC address, to remove the 6 hour cache issue. -tl On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 20:36:04 -0400 Jamon Camisso wrote: > So it had to happen sometime. Friday, 4:30pm, developers go live with a > new release. Server performs just fine until someone upgrades something > and damn, I'm stuck in the server room on a gorgeous Friday night. > > Hardware: > 1) Sun Xfire 4600, 16 core opteron /w 32gb ram. A beast. > 2) Quad Intel 82546EB Gigabit ports > 3) Old and new ethernet cables > 4) 4 other identical machines that haven't showed any signs of trouble. > > OS: > 1) 2.6.29-gentoo-r5 kernel /w e1000 ethernet driver loaded as a module. > 2) 2.6.25-gentoo-r7 kernel /w e1000 ethernet driver loaded as a module. > > Symptoms: > 1) At first it looked like apache was having a problem with mod_rails. > Disabled that, nope, still erratic timeouts on web pages. Disabled > mod_proxy_ajp, still odd slowdowns. MaxClients are fine etc. Server had > 60 days of uptime, during which time it performed admirably. The problem > seems limited to apache, but then again, apart from a bit of mail, there > isn't much network throughput apart from it, so it's kind of hard to > diagnose without installing a whole other webserver. > > 2) ab run from another host on gigabit link behind the same switch comes > in at a paltry 1.93 pages/second. Usually 50-100 is to be expected > depending on the vhost being served. > > 2) vmstat looks absolutely normal, like it has for the last 60 days. No > blocking processes, cpu almost 100% idle, i/o is negligible. > > 3) smartctl shows all 4 sas drives in the raid5 array are healthy, as > does /proc/mdstat. No disk problems that I can see. > > 4) Outgoing network throughput is as expected, full kernel from > kernel.org in seconds. > > 5) netstat shows about 300 connections at any given time, no large > fluctuations at all. > > 6) The only odd looking graph (using munin) is the fork rate. I think > the spike I see of 150 forks/second is apache starting up after > rebooting though. Probably a red herring. > > 7) tcpdump shows dropped packets sometimes when the problem is > occurring. Only sometimes. iptables looks fine, and ifconfig doesn't > show any dropped packets. I'm not too familiar with tcpdump, but I made > sure to grab some packets so I can pore over them and try to glean > something. *Any tips as to what to look for would be appreciated.* > > Haven't looked at sysctl settings at all, things have been fine up until > now, and the other admin rebooted so I'd expect that any odd problem > somewhere in the bowels of the system's tcp stack would have gone away. > > Any thoughts or suggestions of where to look next? I consider myself a > capable admin for basic stuff like setting up apache, databases etc., > but this problem has me completely baffled. I'd swap the disks to > another chassis, but some may recall a problem I had with the same > servers a month ago where switching ip addresses and mac addresses takes > 6 hours of so for the switch to realize what's happened, so that's > probably a no go. > > Thanks! Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 6 01:01:43 2009 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 21:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Troubleshooting erratic network performance Message-ID: <200906060101.n5611hOt028556@gc0.generalconcepts.com> Oh oh - someone broke rule number one on you: no changes Friday afternoon. Could there be a DNS resolution problem? Could apache be trying to do a reverse lookup on the IP address connecting and be timing out? Do the apache access logs show IP addresses or hostnames? Can each DNS server in /etc/resolv.conf be reached and succeed in doing a forward and reverse lookup? e.g. dig @1.2.3.4 asbestos.ss.org dig @1.2.3.4 1.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa. ptr Does the web page connect to a backend server e.g. mysql? I had a slow page problem just the other week, because the mysql server couldn't do reverse lookups on the IP of the web server, which could be resolved either by fixing DNS or adding an appropriate local entry to /etc/hosts. You could watch DNS traffic and expect to see answers and quick replies with tcpdump, if you know what interface to watch. Any idea what changed? Hope that helps! John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 6 13:59:35 2009 From: trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (cameron lord) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 09:59:35 -0400 Subject: Troubleshooting erratic network performance In-Reply-To: <200906060101.n5611hOt028556-KXptd8nw1xHC8fiuoqhjLId3RwegZlz3@public.gmane.org> References: <200906060101.n5611hOt028556@gc0.generalconcepts.com> Message-ID: corrupt arp tables? bad physical hardware? > Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 21:01:43 -0400 > From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Troubleshooting erratic network performance > > Oh oh - someone broke rule number one on you: no changes Friday > afternoon. > > Could there be a DNS resolution problem? Could apache be trying > to do a reverse lookup on the IP address connecting and be timing > out? Do the apache access logs show IP addresses or hostnames? > Can each DNS server in /etc/resolv.conf be reached and succeed > in doing a forward and reverse lookup? e.g. > dig @1.2.3.4 asbestos.ss.org > dig @1.2.3.4 1.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa. ptr > > Does the web page connect to a backend server e.g. mysql? > I had a slow page problem just the other week, because the > mysql server couldn't do reverse lookups on the IP of the > web server, which could be resolved either by fixing DNS > or adding an appropriate local entry to /etc/hosts. > > You could watch DNS traffic and expect to see answers and > quick replies with tcpdump, if you know what interface to > watch. > > Any idea what changed? > > Hope that helps! > > John > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Internet explorer 8 lets you browse the web faster. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655582 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 6 14:02:38 2009 From: trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (cameron lord) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:02:38 -0400 Subject: SMART Need yo replace boot drive In-Reply-To: <4A288094.6030907-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A287BAF.6000102@rogers.com> <4A288094.6030907@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: You should also consider any changes to the core made by 3rd party softwares. > Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:19:00 -0400 > From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: SMART Need yo replace boot drive > > Stephen wrote: > > Got this warning so weekend project is swapping the boot drive. > > > > I have a three drive system and the home directories are on a healthy > > drive. > > > > I will need to download and and burn the latest Ubuntu. I will save > > copies of the ini files for > > Apache and Samba. I use the computer as a LAMP development box, and the > > only > > significant data is my web sites, which I also backup routinely. > > > > Is there anything else that I should consider? > > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Internet explorer 8 lets you browse the web faster. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655582 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 6 14:11:56 2009 From: trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (cameron lord) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:11:56 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <20090605195831.GA22848-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> <20090605195831.GA22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Cameron Lord Replied: Ive noticed that too on fedora abd Kubuntu, but not xubuntu or Mepis It goes away if you remove all netscape based applications and librarys They act like a fresh install!...sometimes :P For some reson that dosent happen at all when running Fedora on a virtual pc under windows, is this because the ram is still managed by windows? -- Cameron Lord (AXCellsecure #1 in secure communications) > Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:58:31 -0400 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux desktop sluggish over time > From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org > > On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 12:16:05PM -0600, Marc Lanctot wrote: > > Considering my experience with Linux this seems to be a problem a should > > have fixed by now, but it's an problem I'm growing particularly annoyed > > with. > > > > I notice that over time Linux desktops I use tend to get sluggish. I > > know this is true for at least Ubuntu and Fedorah. I don't remember > > feeling it as much on Debian, but it's been a while. > > > > Anyway, here goes. Sometimes I leave my home Ubuntu machine on for a > > while; I'm talking like 2-3 weeks, maybe more. Sometimes I run > > CPU-intensive apps for a few hours, then leave it idle for days. It just > > seems like over time, the machine gets increasingly unresponsive. After > > rebooting and opening up Thunderbird, the new message window pops up > > right away. After several weeks it takes twice the amount of time or > > more. And, while I thought maybe the GUI/X/Video Driver (nVidia Quadro > > NVS 290) might be to blame, the sluggishness is noticeable even when I > > ssh into my machine from outside.. so it's not just GUI response time. > > But sometimes the problem is less noticeable if I restart X, so .. > > > > We're talking about a new Intel Core 2 Duo, 3.0 GHz with 4 GB of RAM. > > > > For a while I suspected Gnome was the culprit. Could it be? This seems > > way less noticeable when I use fluxbox, but alas, I need a user-friendly > > desktop for the girlfriend. > > > > I suspect this may be due to processes left open that consume most of > > memory but the problem persists even after killing some of those large > > processes. > > > > I know for a fact that Ubuntu comes with a lot of little trinkets that > > are spiffy and supposed to make "Linux easier to use" or more modern but > > sometimes they can slow the machine down. Compiz, for example, is a > > culprit. Pulseaudio too. *But* even after removing these unneeded apps > > the problem still happens. > > > > So, to my question... does anybody know what is going on here and has > > been through similar trouble? I suspect that it is memory/virtual memory > > related.. like, over time the OS doesn't handle memory management as > > well by default, but if I set a few flags this will all magically > > change. I don't want to take the easy way out and just reboot; I want to > > understand what the problem is. > > > > Linux's performance is one of the main reasons I initially ditched > > Windows (don't worry, there have been a lot of reasons since that have > > made me stick with it), and now it seems like many distros are going the > > "unneeded bloat" route... it makes me sad. I just hope it -- meaning my > > particular problem -- can be fixed. > > Anything from mozilla.org leaks memory, and often quite badly. firefox 3 > not as bad as 2, but still leaks. thunderbird does too. They share a > lot of old netscape libraries, which are likely part of the problem. > > Unfortunately given the way x servers allocate memory and give it to > applications and expect them to free it can cause some issues with > leaks over time if X applications are not extremely well written, since > closing the application doesn't cause an automatic free of the memory. > Restarting the X server of course does free the memory. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ We are your photos. Share us now with Windows Live Photos. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 6 14:15:14 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 10:15:14 -0400 Subject: Troubleshooting erratic network performance In-Reply-To: <3623_1244263642_n564lL36008959_200906060101.n5611hOt028556-KXptd8nw1xHC8fiuoqhjLId3RwegZlz3@public.gmane.org> References: <3623_1244263642_n564lL36008959_200906060101.n5611hOt028556@gc0.generalconcepts.com> Message-ID: <4A2A79F2.50209@utoronto.ca> John Sellens wrote: > Oh oh - someone broke rule number one on you: no changes Friday > afternoon. > > Could there be a DNS resolution problem? Could apache be trying > to do a reverse lookup on the IP address connecting and be timing > out? Do the apache access logs show IP addresses or hostnames? > Can each DNS server in /etc/resolv.conf be reached and succeed > in doing a forward and reverse lookup? e.g. > dig @1.2.3.4 asbestos.ss.org > dig @1.2.3.4 1.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa. ptr dns looks good though I initially thought it might be that since it wasn't just apache slowing down. > Does the web page connect to a backend server e.g. mysql? > I had a slow page problem just the other week, because the > mysql server couldn't do reverse lookups on the IP of the > web server, which could be resolved either by fixing DNS > or adding an appropriate local entry to /etc/hosts. Different sites using different databases (mysql, postgresql). All are slow. > You could watch DNS traffic and expect to see answers and > quick replies with tcpdump, if you know what interface to > watch. Still poring through the dumps, not sure what I'm looking for, but nothing sticks out either. > Any idea what changed? Pretty much nothing server side. Just a tarball and extraction of a php webapp. Thanks for the ideas though, still stumped. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 6 14:16:50 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 10:16:50 -0400 Subject: Troubleshooting erratic network performance In-Reply-To: <20090605225707.03b3c5ad.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <4A29B9F4.5080909@utoronto.ca> <20090605225707.03b3c5ad.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <4A2A7A52.1050000@utoronto.ca> ted leslie wrote: > i ran into similar issue, but with mine, > it was a iptables > > limit: avg ####/sec burst # > > type policy, that got exceeded, > > as limit was hit, some people noticed issue, as it was really hit hard, everyone got timeouts. > > you're fine one minute, then the threshold get hits, and boom! users start refreshing away, > starts a queue, then the limit is almost always being exceeded, and it melts down, > > as long as your sure no errors or drops in ifconfig, you can rule out duplex issue to the switch. > > i assume you check the apache error logs? > > i assume with no one hitting it, you get perfect responce? > to rule aid more in ruling in or out the web server (vs. network), you could > use iptables to forward traffic to one of the other boxes. > > as for the arp cache, > just config the ethernet card (new one), or new box with the same MAC address, to remove the 6 hour cache issue. No limits in the iptables rules, nothing being dropped by eth0 either, so it looks like every packet is getting through, they are just queueing up somewhere or something. ethtool -S eth0 shows the following from overnight: ethtool -S eth0 NIC statistics: rx_packets: 11195495 tx_packets: 16731374 rx_bytes: 1105819797 tx_bytes: 20729600690 rx_broadcast: 51426 tx_broadcast: 47 rx_multicast: 16 tx_multicast: 6 rx_errors: 0 tx_errors: 0 tx_dropped: 0 multicast: 16 collisions: 0 rx_length_errors: 0 rx_over_errors: 0 rx_crc_errors: 0 rx_frame_errors: 0 rx_no_buffer_count: 0 rx_missed_errors: 0 tx_aborted_errors: 0 tx_carrier_errors: 0 tx_fifo_errors: 0 tx_heartbeat_errors: 0 tx_window_errors: 0 tx_abort_late_coll: 0 tx_deferred_ok: 5303807 tx_single_coll_ok: 0 tx_multi_coll_ok: 0 tx_timeout_count: 0 tx_restart_queue: 0 rx_long_length_errors: 0 rx_short_length_errors: 0 rx_align_errors: 0 tx_tcp_seg_good: 683459 tx_tcp_seg_failed: 0 rx_flow_control_xon: 5446536 rx_flow_control_xoff: 25028787 tx_flow_control_xon: 0 tx_flow_control_xoff: 0 rx_long_byte_count: 1105819797 rx_csum_offload_good: 11158790 rx_csum_offload_errors: 0 rx_header_split: 0 alloc_rx_buff_failed: 0 tx_smbus: 0 rx_smbus: 0 dropped_smbus: 0 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alex.s.maynard2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 6 16:26:56 2009 From: alex.s.maynard2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 12:26:56 -0400 Subject: Anyone else getting an error message using openoffice on ubuntu-jaunty? Message-ID: <185fc6840906060926j4d9e87e1vecec79b7fe11aad1@mail.gmail.com> Just curious if any one else is getting an error message like this using openoffice on ubuntu-jaunty?: openoffice /usr/lib/openoffice/program/../basis-link/ure-link/bin/javaldx: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2: undefined symbol: gzopen64 ** (soffice:31575): WARNING **: unable to get gail version number I just installed ubuntu-jaunty on my desktop and laptop and get this error on both. Openoffice still opens, so I don't know if these errors are worth tracking down. Reinstalling libxml2 didn't seem to help. Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 6 16:48:06 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 09:48:06 -0700 Subject: Anyone else getting an error message using openoffice on ubuntu-jaunty? In-Reply-To: <185fc6840906060926j4d9e87e1vecec79b7fe11aad1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <185fc6840906060926j4d9e87e1vecec79b7fe11aad1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ECA8276-8F45-4BE1-A02D-05BC6B14D4BA@gmail.com> What architecture? I didn't notice any errors like this on jaunty/amd64 (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 6-Jun-09, at 9:26 AM, Alex Maynard wrote: > Just curious if any one else is getting an error message like this > using openoffice on ubuntu-jaunty?: > > openoffice > /usr/lib/openoffice/program/../basis-link/ure-link/bin/javaldx: > symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2: undefined symbol: gzopen64 > > ** (soffice:31575): WARNING **: unable to get gail version number > > I just installed ubuntu-jaunty on my desktop and laptop and get this > error on both. Openoffice still opens, so I don't know > if these errors are worth tracking down. Reinstalling libxml2 > didn't seem to help. > > Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 6 17:00:19 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 13:00:19 -0400 Subject: Troubleshooting erratic network performance In-Reply-To: <20090605225707.03b3c5ad.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <4A29B9F4.5080909@utoronto.ca> <20090605225707.03b3c5ad.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <4A2AA0A3.3060708@utoronto.ca> ted leslie wrote: > i ran into similar issue, but with mine, > it was a iptables > > limit: avg ####/sec burst # > > type policy, that got exceeded, > > as limit was hit, some people noticed issue, as it was really hit hard, everyone got timeouts. > > you're fine one minute, then the threshold get hits, and boom! users start refreshing away, > starts a queue, then the limit is almost always being exceeded, and it melts down, > > as long as your sure no errors or drops in ifconfig, you can rule out duplex issue to the switch. > > i assume you check the apache error logs? > > i assume with no one hitting it, you get perfect responce? > to rule aid more in ruling in or out the web server (vs. network), you could > use iptables to forward traffic to one of the other boxes. > > as for the arp cache, > just config the ethernet card (new one), or new box with the same MAC address, to remove the 6 hour cache issue. > > -tl Hardware swap, no luck. Same problem.. Boo! Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 6 19:21:27 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 15:21:27 -0400 Subject: Troubleshooting erratic network performance In-Reply-To: References: <200906060101.n5611hOt028556@gc0.generalconcepts.com> Message-ID: <4A2AC1B7.5000103@rogers.com> cameron lord wrote: > corrupt arp tables? The arp cache clears out automagically after a short time, so any corruption wouldn't last long. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alex.s.maynard2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 6 21:23:42 2009 From: alex.s.maynard2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 17:23:42 -0400 Subject: Anyone else getting an error message using openoffice on ubuntu-jaunty? In-Reply-To: <2ECA8276-8F45-4BE1-A02D-05BC6B14D4BA-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <185fc6840906060926j4d9e87e1vecec79b7fe11aad1@mail.gmail.com> <2ECA8276-8F45-4BE1-A02D-05BC6B14D4BA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <185fc6840906061423v17e49ab6n608f1bbcc2f016b6@mail.gmail.com> Both Dells from a couple years back, so I think Intel 32. Alex On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Aviss,Tyler wrote: > What architecture? I didn't notice any errors like this on jaunty/amd64 > > (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) > > > On 6-Jun-09, at 9:26 AM, Alex Maynard wrote: > > Just curious if any one else is getting an error message like this using >> openoffice on ubuntu-jaunty?: >> >> openoffice >> /usr/lib/openoffice/program/../basis-link/ure-link/bin/javaldx: symbol >> lookup error: /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2: undefined symbol: gzopen64 >> >> ** (soffice:31575): WARNING **: unable to get gail version number >> >> I just installed ubuntu-jaunty on my desktop and laptop and get this error >> on both. Openoffice still opens, so I don't know >> if these errors are worth tracking down. Reinstalling libxml2 didn't seem >> to help. >> >> Alex >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 7 01:42:43 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:42:43 -0400 Subject: Give-aways Message-ID: <1f13df280906061842h3d22fddqb944f406de7de0c2@mail.gmail.com> I have a couple items to give away: One power supply for a Dell laptop: 19.5V, 65W, "PA-12 family," big round connector with a really tiny centre ... They don't seem to change it often. I've tested it, it appears to be fine. (I have Dell 700m.) Two purportedly new HP laserjet toner cartridges: a 92298X and a 92298A (I got them from a friend whose business discarded the printers they went with). These are both for the HP 4(M) or 5(M) laserjets, the X apparently has a slightly higher yield. If I get two requests, the first person gets the higher yield one. You can make your way to the next TLUG meeting (Tuesday) to claim these things: you don't have to attend, you just have to show up to pick them up. And tell me by Monday night that you're coming, so I pack them. You can also pick items up at my work or home. Please e-mail me off list. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 7 02:02:29 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:02:29 -0400 Subject: Give-aways In-Reply-To: <1f13df280906061842h3d22fddqb944f406de7de0c2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280906061842h3d22fddqb944f406de7de0c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/6/09, Giles Orr wrote: > I have a couple items to give away: > > One power supply for a Dell laptop: 19.5V, 65W, "PA-12 family," big > round connector with a really tiny centre ... They don't seem to > change it often. I've tested it, it appears to be fine. (I have Dell > 700m.) > > Two purportedly new HP laserjet toner cartridges: a 92298X and a > 92298A (I got them from a friend whose business discarded the printers > they went with). These are both for the HP 4(M) or 5(M) laserjets, > the X apparently has a slightly higher yield. If I get two requests, > the first person gets the higher yield one. I would love one or both of these. Thanks. Colin > You can make your way to the next TLUG meeting (Tuesday) to claim > these things: you don't have to attend, you just have to show up to > pick them up. And tell me by Monday night that you're coming, so I > pack them. > > You can also pick items up at my work or home. > > Please e-mail me off list. > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 7 02:05:02 2009 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 22:05:02 -0400 Subject: Give-aways In-Reply-To: <1f13df280906061842h3d22fddqb944f406de7de0c2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280906061842h3d22fddqb944f406de7de0c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A2B204E.7060906@sympatico.ca> I could use one of the HP laserjet cartridges if still available. Thanks, John. Giles Orr wrote: > I have a couple items to give away: > > One power supply for a Dell laptop: 19.5V, 65W, "PA-12 family," big > round connector with a really tiny centre ... They don't seem to > change it often. I've tested it, it appears to be fine. (I have Dell > 700m.) > > Two purportedly new HP laserjet toner cartridges: a 92298X and a > 92298A (I got them from a friend whose business discarded the printers > they went with). These are both for the HP 4(M) or 5(M) laserjets, > the X apparently has a slightly higher yield. If I get two requests, > the first person gets the higher yield one. > > You can make your way to the next TLUG meeting (Tuesday) to claim > these things: you don't have to attend, you just have to show up to > pick them up. And tell me by Monday night that you're coming, so I > pack them. > > You can also pick items up at my work or home. > > Please e-mail me off list. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 7 02:09:16 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:09:16 -0400 Subject: Give-aways In-Reply-To: <1f13df280906061842h3d22fddqb944f406de7de0c2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280906061842h3d22fddqb944f406de7de0c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: There are a few things that have been gathering dust at my place that I would be happy to pass along at the next TLUG meeting. - I have a set of manuals for the PIC series of microcontrollers from the early 1990s. If anyone is interested let me know and I will bring those manuals to next TLUG meeting. - I have a corded, analog phone that can be made to run Linux. The phone does have an small (7"?) LCD screen. Catch being you will have to burn some ROMs (more pain than I want on my plate at present. Again I would be happy to bring to next TLUG if there is interest... Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alex.s.maynard2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 7 15:56:28 2009 From: alex.s.maynard2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 11:56:28 -0400 Subject: Anyone else getting an error message using openoffice on ubuntu-jaunty? In-Reply-To: <185fc6840906061423v17e49ab6n608f1bbcc2f016b6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <185fc6840906060926j4d9e87e1vecec79b7fe11aad1@mail.gmail.com> <2ECA8276-8F45-4BE1-A02D-05BC6B14D4BA@gmail.com> <185fc6840906061423v17e49ab6n608f1bbcc2f016b6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <185fc6840906070856s4f36d519k5a87c3454e169907@mail.gmail.com> I also tried reinstalling openoffice.org with and without the purge option. Is there anything else to try? Alex On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Alex Maynard wrote: > Both Dells from a couple years back, so I think Intel 32. Alex > > > On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Aviss,Tyler wrote: > >> What architecture? I didn't notice any errors like this on jaunty/amd64 >> >> (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) >> >> >> On 6-Jun-09, at 9:26 AM, Alex Maynard wrote: >> >> Just curious if any one else is getting an error message like this using >>> openoffice on ubuntu-jaunty?: >>> >>> openoffice >>> /usr/lib/openoffice/program/../basis-link/ure-link/bin/javaldx: symbol >>> lookup error: /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2: undefined symbol: gzopen64 >>> >>> ** (soffice:31575): WARNING **: unable to get gail version number >>> >>> I just installed ubuntu-jaunty on my desktop and laptop and get this >>> error on both. Openoffice still opens, so I don't know >>> if these errors are worth tracking down. Reinstalling libxml2 didn't >>> seem to help. >>> >>> Alex >>> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 7 22:11:13 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 18:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Anyone else getting an error message using openoffice on ubuntu-jaunty? In-Reply-To: <185fc6840906070856s4f36d519k5a87c3454e169907-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <185fc6840906060926j4d9e87e1vecec79b7fe11aad1@mail.gmail.com> <2ECA8276-8F45-4BE1-A02D-05BC6B14D4BA@gmail.com> <185fc6840906061423v17e49ab6n608f1bbcc2f016b6@mail.gmail.com> <185fc6840906070856s4f36d519k5a87c3454e169907@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Alex Maynard [Consider trimming your replies and avoiding "top posting".] | I also tried reinstalling openoffice.org with and without the purge option. | Is there anything else to try? Alex Google? Ubuntu Forums? Launchpad? It looks as if TLUG folks haven't hit it. I have no idea if these things from google are relevant: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=610789 (Seems a bit old) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxml2/+bug/151045 (I wonder how he got two versions of libz?) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/365763 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alex.s.maynard2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 03:34:16 2009 From: alex.s.maynard2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 23:34:16 -0400 Subject: Anyone else getting an error message using openoffice on ubuntu-jaunty? In-Reply-To: References: <185fc6840906060926j4d9e87e1vecec79b7fe11aad1@mail.gmail.com> <2ECA8276-8F45-4BE1-A02D-05BC6B14D4BA@gmail.com> <185fc6840906061423v17e49ab6n608f1bbcc2f016b6@mail.gmail.com> <185fc6840906070856s4f36d519k5a87c3454e169907@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <185fc6840906072034y794a5712mf4798fe9253dc3e6@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 6:11 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Alex Maynard > > [Consider trimming your replies and avoiding "top posting".] > > I have no idea if these things from google are relevant: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=610789 > (Seems a bit old) > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxml2/+bug/151045 > (I wonder how he got two versions of libz?) > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/365763 > Thanks for the links and sorry for the top posting. Alex > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 12:31:47 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 08:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> <20090605195831.GA22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Jun 2009, cameron lord wrote: > It goes away if you remove all netscape based applications and > librarys They act like a fresh install!...sometimes :P If the issue is just application, should simply quitting those application solve it? How about running those application under ulimit? -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 17:42:38 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 13:42:38 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <4A2960E5.9020208-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20090608134238.5ce78c81@gravid> I just wanted to thank everyone for their suggestions with this. It was hard to tell if my problems were app-related but I doubted it since the problems persisted even after I'd killed everything. I spent the last two days completely reinstalling my machine. I tried Debian amd64 but after a few hours of trying to get my printer working, I decided it wasn't worth my time and gave Gentoo a shot. So I'm now using Gentoo amd64, printer & scanner works (there were ebuilds for it -- Canon PIXMA 520, this worked out of the box in Ubuntu). Replaced Gnome with Xfce, TBird with Claws, and Firefox with Epiphany. Flash plugin and 64-bit Java working (with sound). A little drastic, but these aren't huge sacrifices when performace is your first priority. ;-) Now I just have to wait a few weeks to see what happens. Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 17:46:05 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 13:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> <20090605195831.GA22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: S P Arif Sahari Wibowo | On Sat, 6 Jun 2009, cameron lord wrote: | > It goes away if you remove all netscape based applications and librarys They | > act like a fresh install!...sometimes :P | | If the issue is just application, should simply quitting those application | solve it? How about running those application under ulimit? In general, on UNIX-like systems, when a process terminates, all its temporary resources are reclaimed by the system. Lennart mentioned earlier that X isn't always able to do this. I don't know what resources may linger. If the problem is that the kernel has gotten into a bad state, that may not be recoverable. In particular, once a system has gotten into an OOM (Out Of Memory) state, it can do odd things that are hard to fix (like killing critical daemons). But we still don't have a clue why the system is sluggish. We don't even know if the cause is resource exhaustion. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 17:53:28 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:53:28 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <20090608134238.5ce78c81@gravid> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> <20090608134238.5ce78c81@gravid> Message-ID: <4A2D5018.6050204@tmis.ca> With my window boxes I had to do backups/drive imaging in the event of a disk failure. It would take 1 to 3 days to get the windows back to where it was before. I stopped backing up my linux workstations. I can rebuild my linux workstations so much faster (and with later builds) Email is IMAP and as long as /home is safe,I can fdisk the drive and rebuild and be running in 30 to 60 minutes. I run Windows and Ubuntu side by side at work. 9 times out of 10 I use the Ubuntu to get the job done. What is the 1 out of 10 times I use Windows? As as web browser with Firefox :) Marc Lanctot wrote: > I just wanted to thank everyone for their suggestions with this. It was > hard to tell if my problems were app-related but I doubted it since the > problems persisted even after I'd killed everything. > > I spent the last two days completely reinstalling my machine. I tried > Debian amd64 but after a few hours of trying to get my printer working, > I decided it wasn't worth my time and gave Gentoo a shot. > > So I'm now using Gentoo amd64, printer & scanner works (there were > ebuilds for it -- Canon PIXMA 520, this worked out of the box in > Ubuntu). Replaced Gnome with Xfce, TBird with Claws, and Firefox with > Epiphany. Flash plugin and 64-bit Java working (with sound). > > A little drastic, but these aren't huge sacrifices when performace is > your first priority. ;-) > > Now I just have to wait a few weeks to see what happens. > > Marc > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 18:57:54 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:57:54 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> <20090605195831.GA22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090608185754.GC22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 01:46:05PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > In general, on UNIX-like systems, when a process terminates, all its > temporary resources are reclaimed by the system. At least the ones it allocated itself directly from the OS. Xlib allocations don't qualify. > Lennart mentioned earlier that X isn't always able to do this. I > don't know what resources may linger. For example, if an application wants to allocate a bitmap if can call the Xlib function XCreatePixmap, which allocates a bitmap (with storage) on the X server and returns a pointer to it to the client. THe client can perform various operations with the handle to the pixmap, but it is actually stored by the X server. When done with it, the client should call XFreePixmap to tell the server it is done with it, so that the server can free the storage for it when there are no more users of it. Of course if the client doesn't do this, the X server may not know to clean it up, unless it happens to also be vary careful to keep track of which X clients own what pixmaps. I don't think it does that though since nothing says a client couldn't pass the pixmap to another client of the same server. > If the problem is that the kernel has gotten into a bad state, that > may not be recoverable. In particular, once a system has gotten into > an OOM (Out Of Memory) state, it can do odd things that are hard to > fix (like killing critical daemons). It is rather rare to see the linux kernel get into a bad state. Given how often restarting X solves any slowness issues, I would not consider the kernel at fault. > But we still don't have a clue why the system is sluggish. We don't > even know if the cause is resource exhaustion. It is almost always a lack of memory or a process spinning, and in almost all cases that process is firefox or thunderbird. In the past it was sometimes kdeinit, but that seems to have gone away. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 20:24:34 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 16:24:34 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <20090608185754.GC22848-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> <20090605195831.GA22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608185754.GC22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090608162434.222afb57@gravid> On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:57:54 -0400 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 01:46:05PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > In general, on UNIX-like systems, when a process terminates, all its > > temporary resources are reclaimed by the system. > > At least the ones it allocated itself directly from the OS. Xlib > allocations don't qualify. > > > Lennart mentioned earlier that X isn't always able to do this. I > > don't know what resources may linger. > > For example, if an application wants to allocate a bitmap if can call > the Xlib function XCreatePixmap, which allocates a bitmap (with > storage) on the X server and returns a pointer to it to the client. > THe client can perform various operations with the handle to the > pixmap, but it is actually stored by the X server. When done with > it, the client should call XFreePixmap to tell the server it is done > with it, so that the server can free the storage for it when there > are no more users of it. Of course if the client doesn't do this, > the X server may not know to clean it up, unless it happens to also > be vary careful to keep track of which X clients own what pixmaps. I > don't think it does that though since nothing says a client couldn't > pass the pixmap to another client of the same server. > Does anybody know of a TB tool that detects this badness? I could be the google-data-provider and/or lightning plugin that was leaking it. I remember it was often TB (sometimes up to 800MB IIRC) and X which has the most memory, then I'd kill TB and X would still have much more memory consumption than usual. I don't remember how much better things became after killing and restarting X. Now I am using Claws and it has almost everything I want. AFAICT, there's no integration to Google calendar (it has a calendar plugin, though).. but let's see if I can live without that. Of course, Claws could be as bad with its memory, but I'm hoping the problem was as the claims have been that it's the netscape libs. On to other recommendations. If Firefox has similar issues, is Epiphany a good alternative? It seems to be so far. I tried Opera and just could not get accustomed to it. That being said, now I have a new problem, also hard to diagnose. Sometimes, it seems like there's high-latency in my network connection. It seems like a TCP connection takes 2-3 seconds.. then after that everything seems to run smoothly, as if I've woken it up out of "network sleep mode" or something. It doesn't always happen after I've left the machine idle for a while.. but it could be that I haven't used the network in a while. I have a Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5754 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express (rev 02) and I'm using the tg3 network driver (built into the kernel, not as a module). I don't have "NetworkManager" installed, though I could install it. On Ubuntu/Debian systems I think this is the little app that runs and shows up as an icon in the top right of the screen.. I never knew what it's purpose was. It seems to manage connections (on top of making it easier to add new connections via a GUI), but I have no idea what it was actually doing in the background. Does anybody know? Should I have it installed or am I better without it? Thanks, Marc -- For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 20:48:12 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:48:12 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <20090608162434.222afb57@gravid> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> <20090605195831.GA22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608185754.GC22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608162434.222afb57@gravid> Message-ID: <4A2D790C.30502@dinamis.com> On 08/06/09 04:24 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Does anybody know of a TB tool that detects this badness? I could be the > google-data-provider and/or lightning plugin that was leaking it. I > remember it was often TB (sometimes up to 800MB IIRC) and X which has > the most memory, then I'd kill TB and X would still have much more > memory consumption than usual. I don't remember how much better things > became after killing and restarting X. Tbird and FF will both become totally unresponsive for me occasionally. I kill them on those occasions and restart and they seem to be fine. On other occasions, just as you've been experiencing, one or the other will start consuming all the RAM that I have, which ranges from 1GB to 4GB, depending on the machine, hitting swap, and chewing up most of the CPU. It also happens with Konqueror. If I restart X, things will be back to normal. If Firefox or Konqueror are misbehaving, I can be reasonably certain that Flash was a contributing factor. I can tell you that the situation with Firefox is no better on Windows XP or on OS X, both platforms on which I run FF3. It misbehaves in the same ways. Again, Flash is often involved in the caper. I can't ditch Firefox because it is a very useful web developer tool but I wish it was better behaved. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 20:55:27 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:55:27 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <4A2D790C.30502-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> <20090605195831.GA22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608185754.GC22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608162434.222afb57@gravid> <4A2D790C.30502@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4A2D7ABF.6060301@utoronto.ca> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On 08/06/09 04:24 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: >> Does anybody know of a TB tool that detects this badness? I could be the >> google-data-provider and/or lightning plugin that was leaking it. I >> remember it was often TB (sometimes up to 800MB IIRC) and X which has >> the most memory, then I'd kill TB and X would still have much more >> memory consumption than usual. I don't remember how much better things >> became after killing and restarting X. > > Tbird and FF will both become totally unresponsive for me occasionally. > I kill them on those occasions and restart and they seem to be fine. On > other occasions, just as you've been experiencing, one or the other will > start consuming all the RAM that I have, which ranges from 1GB to 4GB, > depending on the machine, hitting swap, and chewing up most of the CPU. > It also happens with Konqueror. If I restart X, things will be back to > normal. If Firefox or Konqueror are misbehaving, I can be reasonably > certain that Flash was a contributing factor. > > I can tell you that the situation with Firefox is no better on Windows > XP or on OS X, both platforms on which I run FF3. It misbehaves in the > same ways. Again, Flash is often involved in the caper. I can't ditch > Firefox because it is a very useful web developer tool but I wish it was > better behaved. I built a 64bit 3.5 beta 4 version last week. I have had a session with 15-20 tabs running since then and am very much impressed with it compared to 3.0.x versions. Right now I see ~200mb of rss memory used. Large, yes, but stable, and with 4gb of ram, small price to pay. Can't wait for a stable 3.5! Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 20:58:46 2009 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:58:46 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <4A2D790C.30502-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> <20090605195831.GA22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608185754.GC22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608162434.222afb57@gravid> <4A2D790C.30502@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20090608205846.B4F1D854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> The good news is the Flashblock add-on. It makes Firefox work just fine (i.e. doesn't automatically run flash, and hence it's much less of a memory/cpu hog). On the rare occasion that I actually want to run flash, it's just a click away. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 22:25:16 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 18:25:16 -0400 Subject: Hosting High Traffic Sites for the mortals Message-ID: Hello there, This is a question a friend just asked, and since I do not have any experience with the set up was not able to offer any answer. Thought someone here might have an answer or a good pointer. Would you know of a hosting company offering very user friendly management interface to a hardware that can handle very high load. Basically, the person who will be managing the site, will not have to be too technical. In another word, a box which he someone who is not technically inclined can upload web pages to and get millions of hits/day without problems Any advice is appreciated. Regards, William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 22:40:51 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 18:40:51 -0400 Subject: Hosting High Traffic Sites for the mortals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 6:25 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > This is a question a friend just asked, and since I do not have any > experience with the set up was not able to offer any answer. Thought someone > here might have an answer or a good pointer. > > Would you know of a hosting company offering very user friendly management > interface to a hardware that can handle very high load. Basically, the > person who will be managing the site, will not have to be too technical. In > another word, a box which he someone who is not technically inclined can > upload web pages to and get millions of hits/day without problems I don't think you can have Actual High Performance without there being someone involved with management of the system that *is* technically inclined. Otherwise you run into Mitch Radcliffe's dictum: "A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history -- with the possible exception of handguns and tequila." If the web site consists of simple, static content, then millions of page hits per day may be quite easy to cope with. But if that varies *at all,* then all bets are off. - If he wants dynamic content, then there will be Technical Complications - If there *are* problems, for any reason, then there will be Technical Complications In effect, heavy traffic *IS* a technical complication, all by itself. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Steven Wright - "It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/steven_wright.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 23:41:39 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:41:39 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <20090608205846.B4F1D854F0-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> <20090605195831.GA22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608185754.GC22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608162434.222afb57@gravid> <4A2D790C.30502@dinamis.com> <20090608205846.B4F1D854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20090608234139.GD22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 04:58:46PM -0400, Dave Mason wrote: > The good news is the Flashblock add-on. It makes Firefox work just fine > (i.e. doesn't automatically run flash, and hence it's much less of a > memory/cpu hog). On the rare occasion that I actually want to run > flash, it's just a click away. noscript is another handy way to avoid flash and other annoyances that make firefox go leaky and crappy. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 8 23:47:30 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 19:47:30 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <20090608234139.GD22848-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> <20090605195831.GA22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608185754.GC22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608162434.222afb57@gravid> <4A2D790C.30502@dinamis.com> <20090608205846.B4F1D854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <20090608234139.GD22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A2DA312.2080203@dinamis.com> On 08/06/09 07:41 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 04:58:46PM -0400, Dave Mason wrote: >> The good news is the Flashblock add-on. It makes Firefox work just fine >> (i.e. doesn't automatically run flash, and hence it's much less of a >> memory/cpu hog). On the rare occasion that I actually want to run >> flash, it's just a click away. > > noscript is another handy way to avoid flash and other annoyances that > make firefox go leaky and crappy. I used to run Flashblock but gave up on it when I found that it became too much of a chore to selectively enable Flash when I needed to see something in Flash. Unfortunately, many of our clients seem to think that Flash is the greatest thing since sliced bread and use it extensively. We use Javascript extensively on many of the sites we build so disabling JS isn't an option either. I've been using Google Chrome on Windows and it rarely goes off into the weeds and when it does, it's as advertised, just the one tab. If, or more likely, when, it offers some decent developer tools, like Firebug, I'll be all over it. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 9 00:21:10 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:21:10 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <4A2DA312.2080203-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20090605195831.GA22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608185754.GC22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608162434.222afb57@gravid> <4A2D790C.30502@dinamis.com> <20090608205846.B4F1D854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <20090608234139.GD22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A2DA312.2080203@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20090609002109.GE22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 07:47:30PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > I used to run Flashblock but gave up on it when I found that it became > too much of a chore to selectively enable Flash when I needed to see > something in Flash. Unfortunately, many of our clients seem to think > that Flash is the greatest thing since sliced bread and use it > extensively. We use Javascript extensively on many of the sites we build > so disabling JS isn't an option either. > > I've been using Google Chrome on Windows and it rarely goes off into the > weeds and when it does, it's as advertised, just the one tab. If, or > more likely, when, it offers some decent developer tools, like Firebug, > I'll be all over it. I don't mind telling noscript which pages to allow scripts and plugins and such on the first time I visit them. Pretty handy really. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 9 02:49:10 2009 From: edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (edward chin) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:49:10 -0400 Subject: no SATA In-Reply-To: <20090413143245.GK3796-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <8369b0fa0904061055n5a3d012dp953428f2b00005e6@mail.gmail.com> <20090406175940.GK3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <8369b0fa0904061230n72192d98q3b76e730e117d999@mail.gmail.com> <20090406195110.GL3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <8369b0fa0904101007r29047b41o5945f90040db1fc8@mail.gmail.com> <20090413143245.GK3796@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <8369b0fa0906081949j2919bf7g20121d84d8535896@mail.gmail.com> Thanx Len. I finally got around to reinstalling the HDD and jumping 4 + 5 did the trick. > Try jumpering pin 5 and 6 together on the drive to force it into SATA > 1 mode, since that seems to be what your motherboard supports and the > drive is SATA II. ?You will have to find a jumper from some other HD > though since I don't think it comes with any. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 9 03:28:13 2009 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:28:13 -0400 Subject: Linux desktop sluggish over time In-Reply-To: <4A2DA312.2080203-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A2960E5.9020208@ualberta.ca> <20090605195831.GA22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608185754.GC22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090608162434.222afb57@gravid> <4A2D790C.30502@dinamis.com> <20090608205846.B4F1D854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <20090608234139.GD22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A2DA312.2080203@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20090609032813.C20B8854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> > I used to run Flashblock but gave up on it when I found that it became > too much of a chore to selectively enable Flash when I needed to see > something in Flash. You may want to try Flashblock again. Anywhere flash is there is simply a circle with a script F in it. Clicking on it immediately loads the flash object and it starts running. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 9 12:59:46 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 08:59:46 -0400 Subject: Hosting High Traffic Sites for the mortals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Take a look at Grid-Service from Media Template: http://www.mediatemple.net/webhosting/gs/ I haven't used it but have heard good things. On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 6:25 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > > Hello there, > > This is a question a friend just asked, and since I do not have any experience with the set up was not able to offer any answer. Thought someone here might have an answer or a good pointer. > > Would you know of a hosting company offering very user friendly management interface to a hardware that can handle very high load. Basically, the person who will be managing the site, will not have to be too technical. In another word, a box which he someone who is not technically inclined can upload web pages to and get millions of hits/day without problems > > Any advice is appreciated. > > Regards, > > William -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ Please consider the trees before print this email. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 9 13:36:00 2009 From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 09:36:00 -0400 Subject: Hosting High Traffic Sites for the mortals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2274b9c30906090636y7d3de116y7040e8ccabf7efb3@mail.gmail.com> http://www.akamai.com works really well. You host your own site and akamai caches the content you configure it to cache On 6/9/09, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Take a look at Grid-Service from Media Template: > http://www.mediatemple.net/webhosting/gs/ > > I haven't used it but have heard good things. > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 6:25 PM, William Muriithi > wrote: >> >> Hello there, >> >> This is a question a friend just asked, and since I do not have any >> experience with the set up was not able to offer any answer. Thought >> someone here might have an answer or a good pointer. >> >> Would you know of a hosting company offering very user friendly management >> interface to a hardware that can handle very high load. Basically, the >> person who will be managing the site, will not have to be too technical. >> In another word, a box which he someone who is not technically inclined >> can upload web pages to and get millions of hits/day without problems >> >> Any advice is appreciated. >> >> Regards, >> >> William > > > > -- > Myles Braithwaite > me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ > > Please consider the trees before print this email. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 9 15:39:58 2009 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:39:58 -0400 Subject: Hosting High Traffic Sites for the mortals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've always had good success with pair Networks (www.pair.com). They have high volume plans: http://www.pair.com/services/high_volume/ as well as dedicated plans: http://www.pair.com/services/dedicated/ The most basic of these plans allow for traffic of 800-1000G/month -- that seems like lots. Their server administration pages are now on their second rewrite (by my count, over the last ten years), and are pretty user friendly. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 9 23:38:49 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:38:49 -0400 Subject: Lenovo SL500 even cheaper now. Message-ID: <20090609233849.GF22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> So the lovely laptop that I now have is now on sale again, except this time the screen upgrades that were previously $150 are now free, so even better. I think my configuration is now $840(+tax). For something that just works with linux, this is hard to beat. Details of the sale here: http://www.redflagdeals.com/deals/main.php/alldeals/comments/hot_lenovo_15_off_sl400_sl500_thinkpad_notebooks_again_c2d_t6570_led_2gb_6/ Keys to linux support would be the intel 5100 wifi (cheap upgrade) and the nvidia discrete graphics (much better performance than the intel too). The intel video should work with linux, but some newer intels have been problematic. The fingerprint scanner should work with linux too although I haven't tried it yet. Webcam works fine as does bluetooth apparently (although I didn't try that either yet). Ram upgrads are much cheaper from canada computers than lenovo though. The P8600 cpu is 25W while the Txxxx are 35W, so the upgrade inproves battery life. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 9 21:20:06 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:20:06 -0400 Subject: topics 2009 summer and autumn Message-ID: <1244582406.13545.147.camel@leon> Hi all, Tonight is the long-awaited, much anticipated GIMP presentation by Giles. 14 July will see our AD-replacement presentation that was much requested on the mailing list. August through December have no topics or presenters currently scheduled. So speak up! What topics would you like to see/hear presented? What topics would you like to offer to present? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 10 16:08:38 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:08:38 -0400 Subject: topics 2009 summer and autumn In-Reply-To: <1244582406.13545.147.camel@leon> References: <1244582406.13545.147.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Richard Weait wrote: > Hi all, > > Tonight is the long-awaited, much anticipated GIMP presentation by > Giles. > > 14 July will see our AD-replacement presentation that was much requested > on the mailing list. > > August through December have no topics or presenters currently > scheduled. ?So speak up! > > What topics would you like to see/hear presented? > > What topics would you like to offer to present? I'd like to see something on "clever use of screen" http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/ Notably with a view to knowing about stuff like: - Connecting to existing sessions - Multiple user use, granting access - Multiple connections to a single session - Automatically starting up processes tied to screen - Copy/Paste - Message line management - Selecting windows, selecting sessions - Customizing keystrokes (e.g. - C-a is an important command in Emacs!) I'd be willing to do the talk, some time fall-ish... Good excuse to learn these bits that I need to know :-) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Josh Billings - "Every man has his follies - and often they are the most interesting thing he has got." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/josh_billings.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 10 21:15:47 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:15:47 -0400 Subject: OpenVPN constantly dropping Message-ID: <4A302283.3080308@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've got an Ubuntu 9.04 machine that uses OpenVPN to connect to a small network of servers. I've noticed recently that it seems to "drop" the connection about once every one to five minutes. Restarting the 'openvpn' daemon on the client gets the connection working again, for a minute or so. Anyone else run into this? Watching '/var/log/messages' seems to show nothing, though I am not sure that is where it's error might get logged to. Any tips? Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 10 22:11:08 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:11:08 -0400 Subject: topics 2009 summer and autumn In-Reply-To: References: <1244582406.13545.147.camel@leon> Message-ID: A topic that would actually relate to *Linux*, unlike pretty much all the others proposed, of late, might be titled: "Linux Filesystems in 2009" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Linux_file_systems - Yeah we support all kinds of legacy filesystems that most people won't care about... (befs, minix, qnx4, sysv, msdos, hfs, ntfs, ufs, ...) - Meat & potatoes (ext2, ext3, vfat, isofs) - Network filesystems (nfs, 9p, afs, cifs, coda) - Journalling-ish filesystems (xfs, jfs, reiserfs) - Special purpose things (fuse, ecryptfs, squashfs, romfs, gfs2, jffs, jbd, jbd2, ufs) - Up & coming (NILFS, ocfs2, ...) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Dan Quayle - "This President is going to lead us out of this recovery." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/d/dan_quayle.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 10 22:49:15 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:49:15 -0400 Subject: OpenVPN constantly dropping In-Reply-To: <4A302283.3080308-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A302283.3080308@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1244674156.9277.6.camel@leon> On Wed, 2009-06-10 at 17:15 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've got an Ubuntu 9.04 machine that uses OpenVPN to connect to a > small network of servers. I've noticed recently that it seems to "drop" > the connection about once every one to five minutes. Restarting the > 'openvpn' daemon on the client gets the connection working again, for a > minute or so. > > Anyone else run into this? Watching '/var/log/messages' seems to show > nothing, though I am not sure that is where it's error might get logged > to. Any tips? Client-server version mis-match? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 10 22:52:54 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:52:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: topics 2009 summer and autumn In-Reply-To: References: <1244582406.13545.147.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jun 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: > A topic that would actually relate to *Linux*, unlike pretty much all > the others proposed, of late, might be titled: > > "Linux Filesystems in 2009" > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Linux_file_systems > > - Yeah we support all kinds of legacy filesystems that most people > won't care about... (befs, minix, qnx4, sysv, msdos, hfs, ntfs, ufs, > ....) > > - Meat & potatoes (ext2, ext3, vfat, isofs) > > - Network filesystems (nfs, 9p, afs, cifs, coda) sshfs? -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 10 22:56:52 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:56:52 -0400 Subject: OpenVPN constantly dropping In-Reply-To: <1244674156.9277.6.camel@leon> References: <4A302283.3080308@alteeve.com> <1244674156.9277.6.camel@leon> Message-ID: <4A303A34.4080907@tmis.ca> enable the openvpn log option and choose the "verb"osity (not sure if enabling from the server side or client side would be more informative) Richard Weait wrote: > On Wed, 2009-06-10 at 17:15 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I've got an Ubuntu 9.04 machine that uses OpenVPN to connect to a >> small network of servers. I've noticed recently that it seems to "drop" >> the connection about once every one to five minutes. Restarting the >> 'openvpn' daemon on the client gets the connection working again, for a >> minute or so. >> >> Anyone else run into this? Watching '/var/log/messages' seems to show >> nothing, though I am not sure that is where it's error might get logged >> to. Any tips? > > Client-server version mis-match? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- [ Teddy David Mills System Administrator TMIS.ca ] [ Teddys Virtual Space of Sciences, Technology ] [ Music, Media, Linux and Open Source ] [ http://vger1.dyndns.org ] [ http://vger1.dyndns.org/wordpress ] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 10 23:32:28 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: offer: 17" computer monitor Message-ID: I just offered this on FreecycleTO. TLUGers are welcome to request this too. (FreecycleTO is a mailing list that allows you to offer or ask for things. These are gifts -- not for sale.) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- To: FreecycleTO-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org Subject: offer: 17" computer monitor TTX-3700 17" VGA CRT colour monitor Manufactured 1993 According to http://www.monitorworld.com/Monitors/ttx/ttx3700.html, the maximum resolution is 1280x1024. I don't remember (we haven't used it for a year or two). If nobody speaks up, I'm going to take it to Environment Day on Saturday. I am near Yonge and York Mills. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 10 23:38:39 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: topics 2009 summer and autumn In-Reply-To: References: <1244582406.13545.147.camel@leon> Message-ID: | From: Christopher Browne | "Linux Filesystems in 2009" You didn't mention ext4. Fedora 11, released this week, defaults to ext4. But: grub doesn't understand ext4, so (I think) they default to creating a /boot partition of some other type. Shades of System V release 4 on x86: that could not boot from their default file system, so they had a special simple files system type for /boot: bfs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 10 23:46:44 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:46:44 -0400 Subject: topics 2009 summer and autumn In-Reply-To: References: <1244582406.13545.147.camel@leon> Message-ID: <4A3045E4.6030007@utoronto.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Christopher Browne > > | "Linux Filesystems in 2009" > > You didn't mention ext4. > > Fedora 11, released this week, defaults to ext4. > > But: grub doesn't understand ext4, so (I think) they default to > creating a /boot partition of some other type. > > Shades of System V release 4 on x86: that could not boot from their > default file system, so they had a special simple files system type > for /boot: bfs. Not at all, grub2 supports it. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 11 00:26:02 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:26:02 -0400 Subject: topics 2009 summer and autumn In-Reply-To: References: <1244582406.13545.147.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > ? ?sshfs? Yeah, I'm sure there are such things... I gather I forgot about ext4 :-). The profuse quantity is very much the point of the exercise... This should NOT just be "oh, here's the 3 that I've found I use fairly frequently" - there is merit in a "stump the crowd, I've got filesystems you didn't think of!" approach. The "fun-but-preposterous" one I recently saw a demo of was... http://git.postgresql.org/gitweb?p=postgresqlfs.git;a=summary FUSE lets people do some wacky stuff :-). I was trying to use it a couple weeks ago for something that declined to work... Oh, yeah, someone has implemented an iPod Touch interface via FUSE. http://matt.colyer.name/projects/iphone-linux/index.php?title=Main_Page Alas, it didn't work for me :-(. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Josh Billings - "Every man has his follies - and often they are the most interesting thing he has got." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/josh_billings.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 11 00:42:59 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:42:59 -0400 Subject: OpenVPN constantly dropping In-Reply-To: <4A303A34.4080907-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4A302283.3080308@alteeve.com> <1244674156.9277.6.camel@leon> <4A303A34.4080907@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4A305313.9060505@alteeve.com> teddymills wrote: > enable the openvpn log option and choose the "verb"osity > > (not sure if enabling from the server side or client side > would be more informative) Thanks. I enabled a verbosity of 6 and set a specific log file using: # Set log file verbosity. verb 6 log-append openvpn.log I restarted OpenVPN, started tailing the log file and, in another window, started a ping to one of my servers. I got all of 143 pings in before the connection dropped again. On the client side, this was the last couple of good pings followed by the first couple of failed pings. From what I can gather, the client kept sending out the pings, but before long the server decided it was all offended and wouldn't talk to me any more. What I don't get is just what I said to make the server mad at me... :) Wed Jun 10 20:35:12 2009 us=678191 UDPv4 WRITE [125] to 192.139.81.32:1194: P_DATA_V1 kid=0 DATA len=124 Wed Jun 10 20:35:12 2009 us=723822 UDPv4 READ [125] from 192.139.81.32:1194: P_DATA_V1 kid=0 DATA len=124 Wed Jun 10 20:35:12 2009 us=723866 TUN WRITE [84] Wed Jun 10 20:35:13 2009 us=680002 TUN READ [84] Wed Jun 10 20:35:13 2009 us=680099 UDPv4 WRITE [125] to 192.139.81.32:1194: P_DATA_V1 kid=0 DATA len=124 Wed Jun 10 20:35:13 2009 us=725470 UDPv4 READ [125] from 192.139.81.32:1194: P_DATA_V1 kid=0 DATA len=124 Wed Jun 10 20:35:13 2009 us=725518 TUN WRITE [84] Wed Jun 10 20:35:14 2009 us=681662 TUN READ [84] Wed Jun 10 20:35:14 2009 us=681761 UDPv4 WRITE [125] to 192.139.81.32:1194: P_DATA_V1 kid=0 DATA len=124 Wed Jun 10 20:35:15 2009 us=690280 TUN READ [84] Wed Jun 10 20:35:15 2009 us=690346 UDPv4 WRITE [125] to 192.139.81.32:1194: P_DATA_V1 kid=0 DATA len=124 Wed Jun 10 20:35:16 2009 us=698292 TUN READ [84] Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 11 00:46:14 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:46:14 -0400 Subject: topics 2009 summer and autumn In-Reply-To: References: <1244582406.13545.147.camel@leon> Message-ID: <4A3053D6.3000602@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> sshfs? > > Yeah, I'm sure there are such things... > > I gather I forgot about ext4 :-). > > The profuse quantity is very much the point of the exercise... > > This should NOT just be "oh, here's the 3 that I've found I use fairly > frequently" - there is merit in a "stump the crowd, I've got > filesystems you didn't think of!" approach. > > The "fun-but-preposterous" one I recently saw a demo of was... > http://git.postgresql.org/gitweb?p=postgresqlfs.git;a=summary > > FUSE lets people do some wacky stuff :-). I was trying to use it a > couple weeks ago for something that declined to work... Oh, yeah, > someone has implemented an iPod Touch interface via FUSE. > http://matt.colyer.name/projects/iphone-linux/index.php?title=Main_Page > Alas, it didn't work for me :-(. I use sshfs with my ipod touch. ssh'ing out of and into your ipod is worth at least a few extra geek points no? I hear the Openmoko Freerunner allows ssh in and out as well (for those who managed to get one while the company was still making them). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 11 00:47:11 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:47:11 -0400 Subject: topics 2009 summer and autumn In-Reply-To: References: <1244582406.13545.147.camel@leon> Message-ID: <4A30540F.6060109@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> sshfs? > > Yeah, I'm sure there are such things... > > I gather I forgot about ext4 :-). > > The profuse quantity is very much the point of the exercise... > > This should NOT just be "oh, here's the 3 that I've found I use fairly > frequently" - there is merit in a "stump the crowd, I've got > filesystems you didn't think of!" approach. > > The "fun-but-preposterous" one I recently saw a demo of was... > http://git.postgresql.org/gitweb?p=postgresqlfs.git;a=summary > > FUSE lets people do some wacky stuff :-). I was trying to use it a > couple weeks ago for something that declined to work... Oh, yeah, > someone has implemented an iPod Touch interface via FUSE. > http://matt.colyer.name/projects/iphone-linux/index.php?title=Main_Page > Alas, it didn't work for me :-(. I use sshfs with my ipod touch. ssh'ing out of and into your ipod is worth at least a few extra geek points no? I hear the Openmoko Freerunner allows ssh in and out as well (for those who managed to get one while the company was still making them). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 11 00:55:49 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:55:49 -0400 Subject: OpenVPN constantly dropping In-Reply-To: <4A305313.9060505-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A302283.3080308@alteeve.com> <1244674156.9277.6.camel@leon> <4A303A34.4080907@tmis.ca> <4A305313.9060505@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4A305615.7030109@alteeve.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > teddymills wrote: >> enable the openvpn log option and choose the "verb"osity >> >> (not sure if enabling from the server side or client side >> would be more informative) > > Thanks. I enabled a verbosity of 6 and set a specific log file using: > > # Set log file verbosity. > verb 6 > log-append openvpn.log > > I restarted OpenVPN, started tailing the log file and, in another > window, started a ping to one of my servers. I got all of 143 pings in > before the connection dropped again. On the client side, this was the > last couple of good pings followed by the first couple of failed pings. > > From what I can gather, the client kept sending out the pings, but > before long the server decided it was all offended and wouldn't talk to > me any more. What I don't get is just what I said to make the server mad > at me... :) > > Wed Jun 10 20:35:12 2009 us=678191 UDPv4 WRITE [125] to > 192.139.81.32:1194: P_DATA_V1 kid=0 DATA len=124 > Wed Jun 10 20:35:12 2009 us=723822 UDPv4 READ [125] from > 192.139.81.32:1194: P_DATA_V1 kid=0 DATA len=124 > Wed Jun 10 20:35:12 2009 us=723866 TUN WRITE [84] > Wed Jun 10 20:35:13 2009 us=680002 TUN READ [84] > Wed Jun 10 20:35:13 2009 us=680099 UDPv4 WRITE [125] to > 192.139.81.32:1194: P_DATA_V1 kid=0 DATA len=124 > Wed Jun 10 20:35:13 2009 us=725470 UDPv4 READ [125] from > 192.139.81.32:1194: P_DATA_V1 kid=0 DATA len=124 > Wed Jun 10 20:35:13 2009 us=725518 TUN WRITE [84] > Wed Jun 10 20:35:14 2009 us=681662 TUN READ [84] > Wed Jun 10 20:35:14 2009 us=681761 UDPv4 WRITE [125] to > 192.139.81.32:1194: P_DATA_V1 kid=0 DATA len=124 > Wed Jun 10 20:35:15 2009 us=690280 TUN READ [84] > Wed Jun 10 20:35:15 2009 us=690346 UDPv4 WRITE [125] to > 192.139.81.32:1194: P_DATA_V1 kid=0 DATA len=124 > Wed Jun 10 20:35:16 2009 us=698292 TUN READ [84] > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Got it! I setup a second computer using the same certificate... Doh! From the server: Wed Jun 10 20:48:17 2009 us=678900 111.222.33.44:46008 [madison] Peer Connection Initiated with 111.222.33.44:46008 Wed Jun 10 20:48:17 2009 us=679183 MULTI: new connection by client 'madison' will cause previous active sessions by this client to be dropped. Remember to use the --duplicate-cn option if you want multiple clients using the same certificate or username to concurrently connect. Grah! :P Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 11 12:33:11 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:33:11 -0400 Subject: Friday only: Dell laptop, Ubuntu preload: $249 Message-ID: <4A30F987.2010502@telly.org> http://smallbusiness.dell.com/r/c/r?2.1.2d.2UW.1gkuVB.E0jFs8.2.H.JND8.2kO0.bW89MiZyc19idj1IJmk9bWFyay5nb21lekBhY3hpb20uY29tJnJzX212PUgmcnNfcz0yJnJzX2t5PTFna3VWQg%5f%5fBTMMGe00 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 11 13:02:57 2009 From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 09:02:57 -0400 Subject: Friday only: Dell laptop, Ubuntu preload: $249 In-Reply-To: <4A30F987.2010502-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A30F987.2010502@telly.org> Message-ID: <8827C07140104E5697ED1BF88ACA5CCE@plex20> I emailed my Dell rep about this earlier this morning - but I believe that this box is only available in the U.S. I couldn't find it on the Canadian site at all... -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Evan Leibovitch Sent: 11-Jun-09 8:33 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Friday only: Dell laptop, Ubuntu preload: $249 http://smallbusiness.dell.com/r/c/r?2.1.2d.2UW.1gkuVB.E0jFs8.2.H.JND8.2kO0.b W89MiZyc19idj1IJmk9bWFyay5nb21lekBhY3hpb20uY29tJnJzX212PUgmcnNfcz0yJnJzX2t5P TFna3VWQg%5f%5fBTMMGe00 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 11 14:08:53 2009 From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:08:53 -0400 Subject: Friday only: Dell laptop, Ubuntu preload: $249 In-Reply-To: <8827C07140104E5697ED1BF88ACA5CCE@plex20> References: <4A30F987.2010502@telly.org> <8827C07140104E5697ED1BF88ACA5CCE@plex20> Message-ID: <53D91C93DEFB4E15A73EFD9C743927AD@plex20> Confirmed - only available in the U.S. Also, Dell has a policy of *NOT* shipping boxes to Canada if you order from their U.S. website... All Canadian purchases must go through their Canadian site or reps. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jon Thiele Sent: 11-Jun-09 9:03 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: RE: [TLUG]: Friday only: Dell laptop, Ubuntu preload: $249 I emailed my Dell rep about this earlier this morning - but I believe that this box is only available in the U.S. I couldn't find it on the Canadian site at all... -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Evan Leibovitch Sent: 11-Jun-09 8:33 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Friday only: Dell laptop, Ubuntu preload: $249 http://smallbusiness.dell.com/r/c/r?2.1.2d.2UW.1gkuVB.E0jFs8.2.H.JND8.2kO0.b W89MiZyc19idj1IJmk9bWFyay5nb21lekBhY3hpb20uY29tJnJzX212PUgmcnNfcz0yJnJzX2t5P TFna3VWQg%5f%5fBTMMGe00 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 11 18:12:50 2009 From: alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:12:50 -0400 Subject: Need help capturing video from cityty.com In-Reply-To: <528551391.1244679090021.JavaMail.tomcat@scold40> References: <528551391.1244679090021.JavaMail.tomcat@scold40> Message-ID: <1244743971.11423.8.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> Hello all I am trying to capture a City TV program which I want to burn to a DVD so I can then show it to a patient at Baycrest Hospital. The video seems to consist of commercials as well as the TV program. I have no trouble viewing the whole thing. (Ubuntu Firefox Adobe Flash Player). The "transmission" includes commercials as well as the show itself. It is apparent that several files are involved. Normally, I would expect to grab the appropriate one out of Mozilla-firefox's Cache directory. However, when I later examine firefox's Cache directory, I can only seem to find the a commercial, not the show itself. Indeed, as the 47 minute program progresses, none of the files or file-dates seem to be changing. Can you provide me with some help with this? > Video: > While the electrocution of a young woman leads Murdoch to a war > between rival electricity suppliers, Crabtree finds himself attracted > to a suspect. > http://site.citytv.com/video/?bcpid=14614708001&bclid=7057186001&bctid=14555977001 Sincerely, Alan Cohen 416-783-5383 alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 11 18:29:50 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OpenVPN constantly dropping In-Reply-To: <4A305615.7030109-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A302283.3080308@alteeve.com> <1244674156.9277.6.camel@leon> <4A303A34.4080907@tmis.ca> <4A305313.9060505@alteeve.com> <4A305615.7030109@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jun 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > Got it! > > I setup a second computer using the same certificate... Doh! "That's not a bug that's a feature!" :) The error message in Madi's post mentioned this but it is worth expanding on: OpenVPN will not allow two computers with the same Common Name (CN) to connect at the same time by default. This bevaviour can be disabled at the server, eg if you are using a shared cert. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 11 19:29:22 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:29:22 -0400 Subject: OpenVPN constantly dropping In-Reply-To: References: <4A302283.3080308@alteeve.com> <1244674156.9277.6.camel@leon> <4A303A34.4080907@tmis.ca> <4A305313.9060505@alteeve.com> <4A305615.7030109@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4A315B12.5060707@alteeve.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 10 Jun 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Got it! >> >> I setup a second computer using the same certificate... Doh! > > "That's not a bug that's a feature!" :) > > The error message in Madi's post mentioned this but it is worth > expanding on: OpenVPN will not allow two computers with the same Common > Name (CN) to connect at the same time by default. This bevaviour can be > disabled at the server, eg if you are using a shared cert. > > Cheers, > > Rob Exactly what I did. Just uncommented the 'duplicate-cn' entry in the server's config file and restarted. Been fine since. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 11 19:37:04 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:37:04 -0400 Subject: Colour Laser Printer - Free to a good home Message-ID: <20090611193704.GA23924@yam.witteman.ca> At work we have recently replaced an OKI C3200n. This printer may be fine, put the person in charge of its care and feeding was having problems with paper jams, so they ordered an HP. This leaves us with an extra printer, two black cartridges and four colour cartridges. We basically need to get it out of the office, so if you want it and are willing to come pick it up, it's yours. Info: http://www.okic3200n.co.uk/ http://www.openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Oki-C3200 It is being replaced because of recurring paper jams, but that is not necessarily a fundamental problem - your mileage may vary. Still, we are sending this out "AS IS". We are located at College and University. Email offlist if you are interested. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 11 20:08:43 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:08:43 -0400 Subject: Colour Laser Printer - Free to a good home In-Reply-To: <20090611193704.GA23924-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090611193704.GA23924@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <20090611200843.GB24354@yam.witteman.ca> We have a winner! Thank you all for playing. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 12 02:31:25 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:31:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: topics 2009 summer and autumn In-Reply-To: References: <1244582406.13545.147.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jun 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: > "Linux Filesystems in 2009" > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Linux_file_systems Just added Coda to the bunch. :-) -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 12 02:48:57 2009 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:48:57 -0400 Subject: Need help capturing video from cityty.com In-Reply-To: <1244743971.11423.8.camel-GpcmGeqvc4UGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <528551391.1244679090021.JavaMail.tomcat@scold40> <1244743971.11423.8.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <200906112248.57946.amarjan@pobox.com> On June 11, 2009 02:12:50 pm Alan Cohen wrote: > Indeed, as the 47 minute program progresses, none of the files or > file-dates seem to be changing. The program itself is probably transmitted with RTMP, a proprietary Flash protocol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Time_Messaging_Protocol I don't know what options exist for ripping an RTMP stream on Linux. There are several Windows programs that claim to do the job, and numerous references to running Orbit Downloader in Wine with mixed success. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 12 02:51:57 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:51:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Need help capturing video from cityty.com In-Reply-To: <1244743971.11423.8.camel-GpcmGeqvc4UGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <528551391.1244679090021.JavaMail.tomcat@scold40> <1244743971.11423.8.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Jun 2009, Alan Cohen wrote: > I am trying to capture a City TV program which I want to burn > to a DVD so I can then show it to a patient at Baycrest > Hospital. ... > (Ubuntu Firefox Adobe Flash Player). Did you try "Flashgot" extension? -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 12 02:55:47 2009 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Need help capturing video from cityty.com In-Reply-To: <1244743971.11423.8.camel-GpcmGeqvc4UGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <528551391.1244679090021.JavaMail.tomcat@scold40> <1244743971.11423.8.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <1439.72.37.171.60.1244775347.squirrel@72.37.171.60> > Hello all > > I am trying to capture a City TV program which I want to burn to a DVD > so I can then show it to a patient at Baycrest Hospital. > > The video seems to consist of commercials as well as the TV program. I > have no trouble viewing the whole thing. (Ubuntu Firefox Adobe Flash > Player). The "transmission" includes commercials as well as the show > itself. It is apparent that several files are involved. Normally, I > would expect to grab the appropriate one out of Mozilla-firefox's Cache > directory. However, when I later examine firefox's Cache directory, I > can only seem to find the a commercial, not the show itself. > > Indeed, as the 47 minute program progresses, none of the files or > file-dates seem to be changing. > > Can you provide me with some help with this? > > >> Video: >> While the electrocution of a young woman leads Murdoch to a war >> between rival electricity suppliers, Crabtree finds himself attracted >> to a suspect. >> http://site.citytv.com/video/?bcpid=14614708001&bclid=7057186001&bctid=14555977001 > > > Sincerely, > > Alan Cohen > 416-783-5383 > alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org Add this extension to firefox. http://www.downloadhelper.net/support-kb-thread.php?thread=071002224447_Dwhelper_folder HTH John ---------------------------- Powered by Execulink Webmail http://www.execulink.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 12 20:26:36 2009 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:26:36 -0400 Subject: Lenovo SL500 even cheaper now. In-Reply-To: <20090609233849.GF22848-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090609233849.GF22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > So the lovely laptop that I now have is now on sale again, except this > time the screen upgrades that were previously $150 are now free, so > even better. I think my configuration is now $840(+tax). For something > that just works with linux, this is hard to beat. > What distribution are you running on it? pm -- Paul Mora Registered Linux user #2065 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 13 03:39:42 2009 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 23:39:42 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Comments on Part 2 (R&V) of throttling case welcome until June 22nd...] Message-ID: <4A331F7E.4020503@utoronto.ca> I think this is of interest to most TLUG members. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Comments on Part 2 (R&V) of throttling case welcome until June 22nd... Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:10:19 -0400 From: TekSavvy Solutions Inc Reply-To: support-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org To: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Dear Customers, In March 2008 Bell started throttling its Wholesale Customers (TekSavvy among a group of many) without notice. We attempted to have the CRTC force Bell to stop as it removed our ability to do business and give Marketchoice. The throttling was done in the name of congestion, even if Bell, at the same time launched higher speeds (which they did not share with their wholesalers) and also dabbled with launching IPTV, which consumes even more capacity. The CRTC sided with Bell in November 2008 but launched a Public Hearing to discuss Network Management Practices, clearly showing they made a decision on throttling without having all the details in hand to do so. As a result we launched a request to reverse their decision from November (The Review & Vary) in May 2009. The only way we are going to make a difference at this point is to get full public support to stop companies like Bell from bullying the market and the regulators! The Telecom and Cableco Monopolies control 96% of our marketplace, so if we don't stand up and voice our concerns, this will become a two party dance where choices and services are going to be completely removed and rates raised to unreasonable levels! Here are the details on how to submit your comments: 1) Go to: http://support.crtc.gc.ca/crtcsubmissionmu/forms/Telecom.aspx?lang=e 2) Select "Part VII / PN " from the drop down list and then click "Next" 3) In box entitled "Subject" line, insert "CRTC File #: 8662-P8-200907727" 4) In the box entitled "Description / Comments / Questions", insert any comments that you may have on the review and vary application. 5) If you would like to attach a document, select "yes" and follow the instructions for attaching a file. As indicated in the Title, I believe the deadline is June 22nd, so don't wait to long PS - R&V details here: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/recherche-search/?q=8662-P8-200907727&n=e&m= Regards, Rocky Rocky Gaudrault Chief Executive Officer TekSavvy Solutions Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 13 16:16:23 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:16:23 +0400 Subject: quad-64 CD/DVD In-Reply-To: References: <4A1737C8.5030503@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A33D0D7.60905@gmail.com> There is a new quad-64 at work. There are a few issues there, but lets take one at a time. I installed it without problems (Centos 5.3, 64-bit version) Now, when the system is installed, I can not use as a user CDROM (root would do). When a valid CD/DVD is inserted, I am politely told that it is a blank one. I checked for all possible file axcess permissions. I googled a lot. Ideas, please? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 13 18:59:25 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: quad-64 CD/DVD In-Reply-To: <4A33D0D7.60905-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A1737C8.5030503@telly.org> <4A33D0D7.60905@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Zbigniew Koziol | There is a new quad-64 at work. What's a quad-64? Do you mean a PC running something like an intel Core 2 quad q6600? | There are a few issues there, but lets take one at a time. | | I installed it without problems (Centos 5.3, 64-bit version) | | Now, when the system is installed, I can not use as a user CDROM (root would | do). | | When a valid CD/DVD is inserted, I am politely told that it is a blank one. | | I checked for all possible file axcess permissions. I googled a lot. Normally in Centos (if I remember correctly) the user logged in on the main console gets ownership of things like CD drives. If a data CD is inserted, and it isn't blank, you should not be told that it is blank. Is this a data CD and does it contain an ISO9660 file system (perhaps that is what you meant by "valid")? If so, you might have a hardware problem. SELINUX can create all sorts of interesting problems. There is a tool to explain what SELINUX has blocked. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 13 19:19:50 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:19:50 +0400 Subject: quad-64 CD/DVD In-Reply-To: References: <4A1737C8.5030503@telly.org> <4A33D0D7.60905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A33FBD6.50303@gmail.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Zbigniew Koziol > > | There is a new quad-64 at work. > > What's a quad-64? Do you mean a PC running something like an intel > Core 2 quad q6600? > > | There are a few issues there, but lets take one at a time. > | > | I installed it without problems (Centos 5.3, 64-bit version) > | > | Now, when the system is installed, I can not use as a user CDROM (root would > | do). > | > | When a valid CD/DVD is inserted, I am politely told that it is a blank one. > | > | I checked for all possible file axcess permissions. I googled a lot. > > Normally in Centos (if I remember correctly) the user logged in on the > main console gets ownership of things like CD drives. > > If a data CD is inserted, and it isn't blank, you should not be told > that it is blank. Is this a data CD and does it contain an ISO9660 > file system (perhaps that is what you meant by "valid")? If so, you > might have a hardware problem. > > When I insert an installation disk, the computer will boot from it. I have already the system installed. When I insert (while using the already installed system) _any_ _good_ CD/DVD I get that it is a blank one. I can for instance boot from installation DVD, but after the successful(!) installation I can not use the same DVD to view its content. The disk is reported to be blank. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 13 20:06:40 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 16:06:40 -0400 Subject: quad-64 CD/DVD In-Reply-To: <4A33FBD6.50303-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A1737C8.5030503@telly.org> <4A33D0D7.60905@gmail.com> <4A33FBD6.50303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906131306x39314e49m50cac3a2604b3205@mail.gmail.com> You need to have the appropriate driver modules loaded for whatever filesystem the CD-ROM is using (ISO9660 etc) If the user can't access the disk, he/she probably needs to be a part of an appropriate group, e.g. the "cdrom" group, that owns the CD-ROM device On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> >> | From: Zbigniew Koziol >> >> | There is a new quad-64 at work. >> >> What's a quad-64? ?Do you mean a PC running something like an intel >> Core 2 quad q6600? >> >> | There are a few issues there, but lets take one at a time. >> | | I installed it without problems (Centos 5.3, 64-bit version) >> | | Now, when the system is installed, I can not use as a user CDROM (root >> would >> | do). >> | | When a valid CD/DVD is inserted, I am politely told that it is a blank >> one. >> | | I checked for all possible file axcess permissions. I googled a lot. >> >> Normally in Centos (if I remember correctly) the user logged in on the >> main console gets ownership of things like CD drives. >> >> If a data CD is inserted, and it isn't blank, you should not be told >> that it is blank. ?Is this a data CD and does it contain an ISO9660 >> file system (perhaps that is what you meant by "valid")? ?If so, you >> might have a hardware problem. >> >> > > When I insert an installation disk, the computer will boot from it. > > I have already the system installed. > > When I insert (while using the already installed system) _any_ _good_ CD/DVD > I get that it is a blank one. > > I can for instance boot from installation DVD, but after the successful(!) > installation I can not use the same DVD to view its content. The disk is > reported to be blank. > > zb. > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 13 20:10:39 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 16:10:39 -0400 Subject: quad-64 CD/DVD In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906131306x39314e49m50cac3a2604b3205-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A1737C8.5030503@telly.org> <4A33D0D7.60905@gmail.com> <4A33FBD6.50303@gmail.com> <3a97ef0906131306x39314e49m50cac3a2604b3205@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906131310u7e30bda3w4f23e4ad1e8b6969@mail.gmail.com> Accidentally hit submit before finishing. The CD-ROM filesystem modules may include: iso9660 udf With iso9660, your kernel may need to have the MS "Joliet" extensions and/or "transparent decompression" selected /w the module. I'd assume that most generic comes-with-the-OS kernels include these, but I don't really use CentOS very often. Depending on the situation, you might also want the "pktcddvd" module if you're writing disks. On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > You need to have the appropriate driver modules loaded for whatever > filesystem the CD-ROM is using (ISO9660 etc) > If the user can't access the disk, he/she probably needs to be a part > of an appropriate group, e.g. the "cdrom" group, that owns the CD-ROM > device > > > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >>> >>> | From: Zbigniew Koziol >>> >>> | There is a new quad-64 at work. >>> >>> What's a quad-64? ?Do you mean a PC running something like an intel >>> Core 2 quad q6600? >>> >>> | There are a few issues there, but lets take one at a time. >>> | | I installed it without problems (Centos 5.3, 64-bit version) >>> | | Now, when the system is installed, I can not use as a user CDROM (root >>> would >>> | do). >>> | | When a valid CD/DVD is inserted, I am politely told that it is a blank >>> one. >>> | | I checked for all possible file axcess permissions. I googled a lot. >>> >>> Normally in Centos (if I remember correctly) the user logged in on the >>> main console gets ownership of things like CD drives. >>> >>> If a data CD is inserted, and it isn't blank, you should not be told >>> that it is blank. ?Is this a data CD and does it contain an ISO9660 >>> file system (perhaps that is what you meant by "valid")? ?If so, you >>> might have a hardware problem. >>> >>> >> >> When I insert an installation disk, the computer will boot from it. >> >> I have already the system installed. >> >> When I insert (while using the already installed system) _any_ _good_ CD/DVD >> I get that it is a blank one. >> >> I can for instance boot from installation DVD, but after the successful(!) >> installation I can not use the same DVD to view its content. The disk is >> reported to be blank. >> >> zb. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (778) 890-0942 > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 13 21:40:05 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 17:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: quad-64 CD/DVD In-Reply-To: <4A33FBD6.50303-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A1737C8.5030503@telly.org> <4A33D0D7.60905@gmail.com> <4A33FBD6.50303@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Zbigniew Koziol | I can for instance boot from installation DVD, but after the successful(!) | installation I can not use the same DVD to view its content. The disk is | reported to be blank. OK, then not hardware. Does the kernel log say anything interesting (look at the last bit of the output of dmesg)? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 14 02:39:46 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:39:46 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Video Hardware special - unvetted Message-ID: <99a6c38f0906131939o3d9060f5rb0436dc627dd5204@mail.gmail.com> I'm following a currently "unvetted" user on Twitter who's recommending a product that I'm interested in: http://www.canadatopdeals.ca/2009/06/14/comp-ncix-edotd-xfx-radeon-hd-4890-1gb-850mhz-19999/ or http://bit.ly/V3PWG The blog post leads to: http://ncix.com/products/?sku=37430&promoid=1146 which I find tempting. It's been awhile since I've been in the market for video equipment. Comments? TIA! -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 14 02:47:21 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:47:21 -0400 Subject: On Twitter and such... Message-ID: <99a6c38f0906131947w73040687nfff13fe5884ddbf0@mail.gmail.com> I would mark this offtopic, but for some reason I don't think it is. If noone else is running a GTALUG account on twitter, I would be more than happy to do so. Community-permitting of course. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 01:46:18 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:46:18 -0400 Subject: version-control/collaboration on odf documents? Message-ID: <1245030385.14927.14780.camel@gont> hi, I'm looking for a way to do version control -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 02:12:46 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Adding a new drive Message-ID: <575899.23119.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I finally got around to setting up a dedicated CentOS server on my other PC. I added a new unformulated drive to the box, I am wondering how I can format and mount it? I believe it's on /dev/hda...so I assume I just need to run fdisk and create a primary partition on it. Will fdisk also format the drive for me? I also have another drive it's has stuff on it, it's type NTFS, so how can I mount this drive on my system so I can view it's content? Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 03:04:05 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:04:05 -0400 Subject: Adding a new drive In-Reply-To: <575899.23119.qm-ocD5SZSfVayORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <575899.23119.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880906142004p559a4e31sd09979460dca2ace@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > I finally got around to setting up a dedicated CentOS server on my other PC. I added a new unformulated drive to the box, I am wondering how I can format and mount it? I believe it's on /dev/hda...so I assume I just need to run fdisk and create a primary partition on it. > > Will fdisk also format the drive for me? > Hi Rajinder, No you will have to format the drive after creating the partition using fdisk. You can format it with a different variety of file systems such as ext2,ext3,reiserfs using these commands: mke2fs /dev/hdaX for ext2 (not suggested unless its a /boot partition) mke2fs -j /dev/hdaX for ext3 ( I prefer this one, as its more stable i find, im unsure if ext4 is as stable) mkreiserfs /dev/hdaX (Some people prefer this, however I found it lacking in stability and have lost data so i've lost faith in this) Where X is the partition of the drive. To mount an ntfs share you would do the following: mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/xxxx /mountpoint where /mountpoint is a directory made, I usually prefer /media/path as its an external media. Dave Germiqiuet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 03:06:14 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:06:14 -0400 Subject: Adding a new drive In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880906142004p559a4e31sd09979460dca2ace-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <575899.23119.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880906142004p559a4e31sd09979460dca2ace@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880906142006l4e25050cs98620f3082d78341@mail.gmail.com> Just a point taken someone may pipe up, I haven't used NTFS On linux that much and last time I heard it wasn't widely done for write purposes..Maybe someone can shed more insight if its more stable, and can use it with write/read on linux systems. On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> >> I finally got around to setting up a dedicated CentOS server on my other PC. I added a new unformulated drive to the box, I am wondering how I can format and mount it? I believe it's on /dev/hda...so I assume I just need to run fdisk and create a primary partition on it. >> >> Will fdisk also format the drive for me? >> > > Hi Rajinder, > > No you will have to format the drive after creating the partition > using fdisk. You can format it with a different variety of file > systems such as ext2,ext3,reiserfs using these commands: > > mke2fs /dev/hdaX for ext2 (not suggested unless its a /boot partition) > > mke2fs -j /dev/hdaX for ext3 ( I prefer this one, as its more stable i > find, im unsure if ext4 is as stable) > > mkreiserfs /dev/hdaX ?(Some people prefer this, however I found it > lacking in stability and have lost data so i've lost faith in this) > > Where X is the partition of the drive. > > To mount an ntfs share you would do the following: > > mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/xxxx /mountpoint > > where /mountpoint is a directory made, I usually prefer /media/path as > its an external media. > > > > Dave Germiqiuet > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 04:00:10 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Adding a new drive Message-ID: <702614.44563.qm@web111209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi David, thanks that was very helpful, got setup very quickly. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Dave Germiquet wrote: > From: Dave Germiquet > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Adding a new drive > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 11:04 PM > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 10:12 PM, > Rajinder Yadav > wrote: > > > > I finally got around to setting up a dedicated CentOS > server on my other PC. I added a new unformulated drive to > the box, I am wondering how I can format and mount it? I > believe it's on /dev/hda...so I assume I just need to run > fdisk and create a primary partition on it. > > > > Will fdisk also format the drive for me? > > > > Hi Rajinder, > > No you will have to format the drive after creating the > partition > using fdisk. You can format it with a different variety of > file > systems such as ext2,ext3,reiserfs using these commands: > > mke2fs /dev/hdaX for ext2 (not suggested unless its a /boot > partition) > > mke2fs -j /dev/hdaX for ext3 ( I prefer this one, as its > more stable i > find, im unsure if ext4 is as stable) > > mkreiserfs /dev/hdaX? (Some people prefer this, > however I found it > lacking in stability and have lost data so i've lost faith > in this) > > Where X is the partition of the drive. > > To mount an ntfs share you would do the following: > > mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/xxxx /mountpoint > > where /mountpoint is a directory made, I usually prefer > /media/path as > its an external media. > > > > Dave Germiqiuet > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 04:12:37 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:12:37 -0400 Subject: Adding a new drive In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880906142006l4e25050cs98620f3082d78341-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <575899.23119.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880906142004p559a4e31sd09979460dca2ace@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880906142006l4e25050cs98620f3082d78341@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Just a point taken someone may pipe up, I haven't used NTFS On linux > that much and last time I heard it wasn't widely done for write > purposes..Maybe someone can shed more insight if its more stable, and > can use it with write/read on linux systems. The purpose of it is to support Windows interoperability; if that's not particularly needful, I would certainly not bother. I'd primarily consider, for Linux-based filesystems, ext3, and perhaps XFS/JFS. Reiserfs would not be high on my list; with the incarceration of the author, ongoing maintenance could be problematic, to say the least! I'm very interested in what's happening with (ext4, nilfs, ocfs2), but all of those are a bit too new to be considered stable just yet. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html W. C. Fields - "If I had to live my life over, I'd live over a saloon." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/w/w_c_fields.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 05:28:35 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Adding a new drive Message-ID: <809633.90735.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Christopher, I just want to mount a ntfs system to see what data is on the drive and if it's OK to reformat. The box I have use to be a WinXP box. For the CentOS server I am setting up, I will continue to use ext3. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Christopher Browne wrote: > From: Christopher Browne > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Adding a new drive > To: tlug at ss.org > Received: Monday, June 15, 2009, 12:12 AM > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 11:06 PM, > Dave Germiquet > wrote: > > Just a point taken someone may pipe up, I haven't used > NTFS On linux > > that much and last time I heard it wasn't widely done > for write > > purposes..Maybe someone can shed more insight if its > more stable, and > > can use it with write/read on linux systems. > > The purpose of it is to support Windows interoperability; > if that's > not particularly needful, I would certainly not bother. > > I'd primarily consider, for Linux-based filesystems, ext3, > and perhaps XFS/JFS. > > Reiserfs would not be high on my list; with the > incarceration of the > author, ongoing maintenance could be problematic, to say > the least! > > I'm very interested in what's happening with (ext4, nilfs, > ocfs2), but > all of those are a bit too new to be considered stable just > yet. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > W. C. Fields? - "If I had to live my life over, I'd > live over a > saloon." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/w/w_c_fields.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 05:35:08 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:35:08 -0700 Subject: version-control/collaboration on odf documents? In-Reply-To: <1245030385.14927.14780.camel@gont> References: <1245030385.14927.14780.camel@gont> Message-ID: <5B34F84A-9006-4813-B58A-BADCAD6CBDD8@gmail.com> Any version control tool should work, we use GIT at work and I've since started with it at home as it's pretty simple yet efficient for basic needs. (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 14-Jun-09, at 6:46 PM, Matt Price wrote: > hi, > > I'm looking for a way to do version control > > -- > Matt Price > matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 06:23:44 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:23:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Adding a new drive In-Reply-To: <575899.23119.qm-ocD5SZSfVayORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <575899.23119.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: | From: Rajinder Yadav | I finally got around to setting up a dedicated CentOS server on my other | PC. I added a new unformulated drive to the box, I am wondering how I | can format and mount it? I believe it's on /dev/hda...so I assume I just | need to run fdisk and create a primary partition on it. | I also have another drive it's has stuff on it, it's type NTFS, so how | can I mount this drive on my system so I can view it's content? I don't think CentOS has very good NTFS support. Probably due to dodgy legality in the US. Red Hat is rather strict about that stuff. Ubuntu has pretty good NTFS support, I think. Since I don't use NTFS support much, and not recently, don't trust what I just said. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 13:04:39 2009 From: overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Overholt) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:04:39 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Party Monday 15 June @ Linux Caffe Message-ID: <20090615130439.GB11129@redhat.com> Hi, Sorry for the incredibly short notice, but this evening at 6 PM at the Linux Caffe (Harbord & Grace in Toronto) we'll be hosting a Fedora 11 release party. New features will be demonstrated and discussed. DVDs and CDs will be burned. USB sticks will be turned into bootable images with optional persistent storage. Food and drinks will be consumed. Good times will be had by all :) https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Party_F11_Toronto Everyone is welcome. Again, sorry for the short notice. Andrew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 13:24:18 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:24:18 -0400 Subject: version-control/collaboration on odf documents? In-Reply-To: <1245030385.14927.14780.camel@gont> References: <1245030385.14927.14780.camel@gont> Message-ID: Mercurial offers OpenDocument support though a plugin: http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/HandlingOpenDocumentFiles I am currently using it at work. On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Matt Price wrote: > hi, > > I'm looking for a way to do version control > > -- > Matt Price > matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ Please consider the trees before print this email. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 13:37:09 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:37:09 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 release party; today at linuxcaffe! Message-ID: <4A364E85.2000209@linuxcaffe.ca> Fedora fans will be converging at linuxcaffe, today around 6pm to celebrate their newest release. If you want to meet the developers, or get your mitts on a F11 CD, c'mon down. djp see: http://linuxcaffe.ca/node/24385 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 13:42:36 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:42:36 -0400 Subject: Adding a new drive In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880906142006l4e25050cs98620f3082d78341-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <575899.23119.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <32f6a8880906142004p559a4e31sd09979460dca2ace@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880906142006l4e25050cs98620f3082d78341@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A364FCC.2020607@alteeve.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Just a point taken someone may pipe up, I haven't used NTFS On linux > that much and last time I heard it wasn't widely done for write > purposes..Maybe someone can shed more insight if its more stable, and > can use it with write/read on linux systems. NTFS seems fine these days. I read, write, move and resize NTFS partitions all the time under Ubuntu... Not sure about less-bleeding-edge distos though. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 14:44:19 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:44:19 -0400 Subject: Lenovo SL500 even cheaper now. In-Reply-To: References: <20090609233849.GF22848@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090615144419.GA18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 04:26:36PM -0400, Paul Mora wrote: > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Lennart Sorensen < > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > So the lovely laptop that I now have is now on sale again, except this > > time the screen upgrades that were previously $150 are now free, so > > even better. I think my configuration is now $840(+tax). For something > > that just works with linux, this is hard to beat. > > > > What distribution are you running on it? Debian unstable. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 14:49:50 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:49:50 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Video Hardware special - unvetted In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0906131939o3d9060f5rb0436dc627dd5204-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0906131939o3d9060f5rb0436dc627dd5204@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090615144950.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:39:46PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I'm following a currently "unvetted" user on Twitter who's > recommending a product that I'm interested in: > > http://www.canadatopdeals.ca/2009/06/14/comp-ncix-edotd-xfx-radeon-hd-4890-1gb-850mhz-19999/ > or > http://bit.ly/V3PWG > > The blog post leads to: > http://ncix.com/products/?sku=37430&promoid=1146 > > which I find tempting. It's been awhile since I've been in the market > for video equipment. Comments? TIA! Well I wouldn't want one. I know what ATIs drivers are like and what their support and customer service is like. I just ordered an evga 275GTX card for my wife's new desktop. I know that will work without me pulling out hair. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 14:51:23 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:51:23 -0400 Subject: On Twitter and such... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0906131947w73040687nfff13fe5884ddbf0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0906131947w73040687nfff13fe5884ddbf0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090615145123.GC18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:47:21PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I would mark this offtopic, but for some reason I don't think it is. > > If noone else is running a GTALUG account on twitter, I would be more > than happy to do so. > > Community-permitting of course. Whatever for??? I just don't get it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 14:54:27 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:54:27 -0400 Subject: topics 2009 summer and autumn In-Reply-To: References: <1244582406.13545.147.camel@leon> Message-ID: <20090615145427.GD18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 06:11:08PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > A topic that would actually relate to *Linux*, unlike pretty much all > the others proposed, of late, might be titled: > > "Linux Filesystems in 2009" > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Linux_file_systems > > - Yeah we support all kinds of legacy filesystems that most people > won't care about... (befs, minix, qnx4, sysv, msdos, hfs, ntfs, ufs, > ...) > > - Meat & potatoes (ext2, ext3, vfat, isofs) > > - Network filesystems (nfs, 9p, afs, cifs, coda) > > - Journalling-ish filesystems (xfs, jfs, reiserfs) > > - Special purpose things (fuse, ecryptfs, squashfs, romfs, gfs2, jffs, > jbd, jbd2, ufs) > > - Up & coming (NILFS, ocfs2, ...) btrfs (merged in 2.6.29 and probably the most interesting new filesystem in linux ever). Not quite ready for production use yet. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 15:38:08 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:38:08 -0400 Subject: On Twitter and such... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0906131947w73040687nfff13fe5884ddbf0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0906131947w73040687nfff13fe5884ddbf0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I would mark this offtopic, but for some reason I don't think it is. > > If noone else is running a GTALUG account on twitter, I would be more > than happy to do so. > > Community-permitting of course. I think there may be a #GTALUG IRC channel out there that nobody cares much about... I don't imagine it would be either: a) particularly objectionable, or b) particularly useful to create a twitter "channel" that nobody cares much about. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Mitch Hedberg - "I drank some boiling water because I wanted to whistle." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mitch_hedberg.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 16:20:13 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:20:13 +0400 Subject: quad-64 CD/DVD In-Reply-To: References: <4A1737C8.5030503@telly.org> <4A33D0D7.60905@gmail.com> <4A33FBD6.50303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A3674BD.3020504@gmail.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Zbigniew Koziol > > | I can for instance boot from installation DVD, but after the successful(!) > | installation I can not use the same DVD to view its content. The disk is > | reported to be blank. > > OK, then not hardware. > No, this is not a hardware problem, not in its simplest form. I suspect that something is wrong with haldaemon. I see nothing useful in dmesg. The only message in /var/log/messages is : Jun 15 11:13:44 localhost kernel: cdrom: This disc doesn't have any tracks I recognize! That happens after DVD is inserted. I was able to mount/umount it as root, manually, but not as a user. I added the proper entry in /etc/fstab /dev/hda /media/CDROM iso9660 ro,noauto,users 0 0 That did not help either. I was still not able to mount it as user. I checked for various file permissions and they looked ok. After that, I added user to several groups: /usr/sbin/usermod -G haldaemon -a zbych /usr/sbin/usermod -G daemon -a zbych /usr/sbin/usermod -G disk -a zbych After these commands, I am able to mount it manually as user (but I do not know which one of these 3 was needed). However, when I insert DVD, it does not get mounted automatically. I can however boot from that DVD. I used before the same DVD to install the system on another 64 bit computer and there everything went properly. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 17:40:03 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: version-control/collaboration on odf documents? Message-ID: <193494.59554.qm@web111215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I use Subversion (SVN) at work and home, the 2 front end UI clients on Linux are eSVN and RapindSVN. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Aviss,Tyler wrote: > From: Aviss,Tyler > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: version-control/collaboration on odf documents? > To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" > Received: Monday, June 15, 2009, 1:35 AM > Any version control tool should work, > we use GIT at work and I've since started with it at home as > it's pretty simple yet efficient for basic needs. > > > (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) > > On 14-Jun-09, at 6:46 PM, Matt Price > wrote: > > > hi, > > > > I'm looking for a way to do version control > > > > --Matt Price > > matt.price at utoronto.ca > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below > 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 17:52:30 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:52:30 -0400 Subject: version-control/collaboration on odf documents? In-Reply-To: <193494.59554.qm-ocD5SZSfVax+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <193494.59554.qm@web111215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A368A5E.2000709@telly.org> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I use Subversion (SVN) at work and home, the 2 front end UI clients on Linux are eSVN and RapindSVN. > There are many version control systems out there. But generally when serving binary files, they lose much of their benefit (such as diffs). Working with binary, most version control systems are little more than glorified archivers and checksum comparers. Now, the ODF file is a binary blob... but it's really just a zipped collection of a bunch of files, many of which are XML content and which *should* be able to benefit from text-based version control. So _my_ refinement of the original question is: Can any of the existing version control systems out there that are able to work with binary files that unzip into a bunch of files that can be stored in version control as text? (there are other file formats that could benefit from such a facility) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 18:37:02 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:37:02 -0400 Subject: version-control/collaboration on odf documents? In-Reply-To: <4A368A5E.2000709-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <193494.59554.qm@web111215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A368A5E.2000709@telly.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> I use Subversion (SVN) at work and home, the 2 front end UI clients on Linux are eSVN and RapindSVN. >> > There are many version control systems out there. But generally when > serving binary files, they lose much of their benefit (such as diffs). > Working with binary, most version control systems are little more than > glorified archivers and checksum comparers. > > Now, the ODF file is a binary blob... but it's really just a zipped > collection of a bunch of files, many of which are XML content and which > *should* be able to benefit from text-based version control. Actually, let me take a bit of a contrary position there... It is not evident that XML content benefits from text-based version control, because text-based diffs are not something that an XML-based tool can make any use of. Indeed, I just did a small test, taking a document I had lying around, and then: a) Saving it in ODT form (to provide a baseline) b) Modifying it further c) Saving the modified version as a new ODT document. I then extracted the two zip files and did comparisons. chris at dba2:/tmp/v1> find -type f | xargs wc 1 3018 137156 ./styles.xml 0 1 39 ./mimetype 21 64 1988 ./META-INF/manifest.xml 1 162 7997 ./settings.xml 0 10 121 ./layout-cache 1 18 841 ./meta.xml 15 106 5703 ./Thumbnails/thumbnail.png 0 0 0 ./Configurations2/accelerator/current.xml 1 4249 78149 ./content.xml 40 7628 231994 total chris at dba2:/tmp/v1> cd ../v2 chris at dba2:/tmp/v2> find -type f | xargs wc 1 3018 137156 ./styles.xml 0 1 39 ./mimetype 21 64 1988 ./META-INF/manifest.xml 1 162 8000 ./settings.xml 0 10 125 ./layout-cache 1 19 920 ./meta.xml 12 105 5716 ./Thumbnails/thumbnail.png 0 0 0 ./Configurations2/accelerator/current.xml 1 4278 78742 ./content.xml 37 7657 232686 total Note that the relevant file is "content.xml", which is a fairly large XML file. Using wc tells us that content.xml has just 1 line. Thus, from a textual point of view, the fact that I made changes means that a textual tool will discover it to have "completely changed." > So _my_ refinement of the original question is: Can any of the existing > version control systems out there that are able to work with binary > files that > unzip into a bunch of files that can be stored in version control as text? > > (there are other file formats that could benefit from such a facility) The above discovery suggests that this sort of analysis requires a much deeper and more "penetrating" sort of toolset; I would contend that textual differences between XML files are no more useful than binary differences. There does exist a Python tool for figuring out differences between similar XML files... When I run xmldiff against the two versions of content.xml, I do happen to get a smaller difference than the one given by Unix diff :-). Unfortunately, while it's small, that doesn't forcibly mean that the result is useful. It's not something that OpenOffice.org knows how to interpret, and a visual interpretation (from reading the "XML primitives") is pretty opaque. I made a couple of textual changes, which *were* easy to pick out. But I made a couple of font changes (marked some words as ), and that was pretty much opaque. At this point, I'd tend to think that if I were going to apply an SCM to this, I'd want to store the versions of the document in binary form, and any tools that are to do analysis on it would need to be smart enough to know that they need to extract data out of the .zip files. Only a Rather Intelligent examination of the files offers any way to save space, and it needs to be *quite* cognizant of the format, definitely to such a degree that an "ODT repository" could be expected to be pretty useless for any other sort of document, and vice-versa. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html W. C. Fields - "If I had to live my life over, I'd live over a saloon." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/w/w_c_fields.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 18:55:14 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:55:14 -0400 Subject: version-control/collaboration on odf documents? In-Reply-To: <4A368A5E.2000709-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <193494.59554.qm@web111215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A368A5E.2000709@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A369912.2020506@utoronto.ca> On 06/15/2009 01:52 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Rajinder Yadav wrote: >> I use Subversion (SVN) at work and home, the 2 front end UI clients on Linux are eSVN and RapindSVN. >> > There are many version control systems out there. But generally when > serving binary files, they lose much of their benefit (such as diffs). > Working with binary, most version control systems are little more than > glorified archivers and checksum comparers. > > Now, the ODF file is a binary blob... but it's really just a zipped > collection of a bunch of files, many of which are XML content and which > *should* be able to benefit from text-based version control. > > So _my_ refinement of the original question is: Can any of the existing > version control systems out there that are able to work with binary > files that > unzip into a bunch of files that can be stored in version control as text? > > (there are other file formats that could benefit from such a facility) bsdiff the file with the original. Store a copy of the original plus any incremental binary diffs in a vcs of choice. But generally, a vcs is for source, not binaries, so.. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 20:21:11 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:21:11 -0700 Subject: [OT]: Video Hardware special - unvetted In-Reply-To: <20090615144950.GB18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0906131939o3d9060f5rb0436dc627dd5204@mail.gmail.com> <20090615144950.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906151321k1f63a48fj548e1874ab6493d7@mail.gmail.com> Older ATI cards kinda suck for support, although more recently I've seen open-source drivers starting to work with DRM (Direct Rendering, not rights management). My laptop has an HD3200 chipset and it's actually worked quite well since AMD took over ATI. ATI regularly updates their drivers, sometimes faster than NVidia, and the drivers perform quite well in most cases. It does seem that NVidia's GL support is still better in various areas though. On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:39:46PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> I'm following a currently "unvetted" user on Twitter who's >> recommending a product that I'm interested in: >> >> ? http://www.canadatopdeals.ca/2009/06/14/comp-ncix-edotd-xfx-radeon-hd-4890-1gb-850mhz-19999/ >> ?or >> ? http://bit.ly/V3PWG >> >> The blog post leads to: >> ? http://ncix.com/products/?sku=37430&promoid=1146 >> >> which I find tempting. ?It's been awhile since I've been in the market >> for video equipment. ?Comments? ?TIA! > > Well I wouldn't want one. ?I know what ATIs drivers are like and what > their support and customer service is like. > > I just ordered an evga 275GTX card for my wife's new desktop. ?I know > that will work without me pulling out hair. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 20:30:15 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: On Twitter and such... In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0906131947w73040687nfff13fe5884ddbf0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > I would mark this offtopic, but for some reason I don't think it is. > > > > If noone else is running a GTALUG account on twitter, I would be more > > than happy to do so. > > > > Community-permitting of course. > > I think there may be a #GTALUG IRC channel out there that nobody cares > much about... > > I don't imagine it would be either: > a) particularly objectionable, or > b) particularly useful > to create a twitter "channel" that nobody cares much about. I agree. A linked-in group would make more sense (is there one already?). -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 20:51:58 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:51:58 -0400 Subject: On Twitter and such... In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0906131947w73040687nfff13fe5884ddbf0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A36B46E.6020202@linuxcaffe.ca> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: >> I don't imagine it would be either: >> a) particularly objectionable, or >> b) particularly useful >> to create a twitter "channel" that nobody cares much about. > > I agree. A linked-in group would make more sense (is there one > already?). now THAT's a good suggestion, Chris. djp > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 21:30:06 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:30:06 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Video Hardware special - unvetted In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906151321k1f63a48fj548e1874ab6493d7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0906131939o3d9060f5rb0436dc627dd5204@mail.gmail.com> <20090615144950.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0906151321k1f63a48fj548e1874ab6493d7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090615213006.GE18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 01:21:11PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Older ATI cards kinda suck for support, although more recently I've > seen open-source drivers starting to work with DRM (Direct Rendering, > not rights management). > > My laptop has an HD3200 chipset and it's actually worked quite well > since AMD took over ATI. ATI regularly updates their drivers, > sometimes faster than NVidia, and the drivers perform quite well in > most cases. It does seem that NVidia's GL support is still better in > various areas though. So far every interaction with ATI's fglrx drivers involves system lockups, crashes, failed video init, etc. Totally pathetic. No nvidia driver has ever done that to me. We have now told IT where I work that we simply won't accept any new machines with ATI cards in them for the linux systems. We have better things to do. I keep hoping that someday ATI will release enough specs that someone other than ATI can write an open source driver that work. I don't ever expect ATI to do the working driver part. I have given up hope of that. They make nice hardware, but they just can't seem to write the drivers to use it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 21:54:09 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:54:09 -0400 Subject: On Twitter and such... In-Reply-To: <4A36B46E.6020202-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0906131947w73040687nfff13fe5884ddbf0@mail.gmail.com> <4A36B46E.6020202@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4A36C301.1020704@telly.org> David J Patrick wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: >>> I don't imagine it would be either: >>> a) particularly objectionable, or >>> b) particularly useful >>> to create a twitter "channel" that nobody cares much about. >> >> I agree. A linked-in group would make more sense (is there one >> already?). > now THAT's a good suggestion, Chris. They're not mutually exclusive. Twitter and Linkedin serve wildly different purposes. Right now I'm a member of a number of Linkedin groups, and all they've provided me has been noise ("so how can I make money from this open source thing?") and ads for Forbes magazine subscriptions. In any case, Scott's original question appears to already be answered by the existence of a Twitter account called "GTA_Linux" -- don't know who runs it. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 15 21:55:59 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:55:59 -0400 Subject: On Twitter and such... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0906131947w73040687nfff13fe5884ddbf0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0906131947w73040687nfff13fe5884ddbf0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I would mark this offtopic, but for some reason I don't think it is. > > If noone else is running a GTALUG account on twitter, I would be more > than happy to do so. > > Community-permitting of course. Here's a "set of twitter rules" indicating the sorts of things that you ought to be doing in order for a "twitter feed" to be of some value. http://streambase.typepad.com/streambase_stream_process/2009/06/32-twitter-rules-for-ceos.html This list seems reasonably sensible, and points to the notion that generating such a feed is probably quite a bit of work that someone would need to do. It's not so much "heavy effort due to it taking a long time" as it is "consistent effort that needs to take place on a regular basis to find something of interest to readers." -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Groucho Marx - "I was married by a judge. I should have asked for a jury." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/groucho_marx.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 00:15:40 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:15:40 -0400 Subject: version-control/collaboration on odf documents? Message-ID: <20090615201540.7jgalnkr4c4wgo84@webmail.utoronto.ca> Quoting "Aviss,Tyler" : > Any version control tool should work, we use GIT at work and I've since > started with it at home as it's pretty simple yet efficient for basic > needs. > hi, sorry sent that out before i'd finished writing. Here's the thing: I'm trying to collaborate with a non-technical colleague. I can get him to use openoffice, but command-line manipulations are a little beyond him. Also, I'd like to be able to browse changes in a manageable way -- i'm not sure how easy it would be to dothati n git with zipped files. I'm trying out o3spaces, but it seems *very* heavy -- on my ancient server box, the java process eats up memory (300M+ out of 512M), and the 'workplace assistant' takes a toll on my relatively quick laptop. I keep hoping maybe there's a solution that will work from within openoffice, but maybe there isn't, and i'll have to just use google apps. Anyway, thanks as always for advice! matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 02:34:08 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ESC error message Message-ID: <696234.82696.qm@web111207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> When I login to KDE on my CentOS I see an error dialog saying, "ESC is already running, but is not responding. To open a new windows, you must first close the existing ESC process, or restart your system." What is ESC and what can I do to stop this error dialog from popping up right after I login? Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer? 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 14:11:39 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:11:39 -0400 Subject: topics 2009 summer and autumn In-Reply-To: <20090615145427.GD18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1244582406.13545.147.camel@leon> <20090615145427.GD18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1245161500.21525.1.camel@leon> On Mon, 2009-06-15 at 10:54 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 06:11:08PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > > A topic that would actually relate to *Linux*, unlike pretty much all > > the others proposed, of late, might be titled: > > > > "Linux Filesystems in 2009" > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Linux_file_systems > > > > - Yeah we support all kinds of legacy filesystems that most people > > won't care about... (befs, minix, qnx4, sysv, msdos, hfs, ntfs, ufs, > > ...) > > > > - Meat & potatoes (ext2, ext3, vfat, isofs) > > > > - Network filesystems (nfs, 9p, afs, cifs, coda) > > > > - Journalling-ish filesystems (xfs, jfs, reiserfs) > > > > - Special purpose things (fuse, ecryptfs, squashfs, romfs, gfs2, jffs, > > jbd, jbd2, ufs) > > > > - Up & coming (NILFS, ocfs2, ...) > > btrfs (merged in 2.6.29 and probably the most interesting new filesystem > in linux ever). Not quite ready for production use yet. POHMELFS ? http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39664187,00.htm -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 14:12:29 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora 11 Release Party Monday 15 June @ Linux Caffe In-Reply-To: <20090615130439.GB11129-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20090615130439.GB11129@redhat.com> Message-ID: | From: Andrew Overholt | Sorry for the incredibly short notice, but this evening at 6 PM at the | Linux Caffe (Harbord & Grace in Toronto) we'll be hosting a Fedora 11 | release party. Thanks, Andrew (and DJP) for inviting us. We dropped by and ended up staying for a couple of hours. Andrew worked hard at getting F11 to work on my oddball notebook (Averatec AV1020). X worked when we supplied the kernel parameter "nomodeset". The Ralink RT2500 wireless chip did not seem to work (no fix yet). Andrew found this Bugzilla entry: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=457441 The touchpad didn't work (no fix yet; usb mouse should work). Andrew did try some fixes (that I don't really understand). Apparently X input is handled by a new system now. Andrew figured out how to use "accessability" features of the desktop to simulate mouse movement with the notebook's simulated numeric keypad. Thanks, Andrew, for all the help. We enjoyed smoothies and wraps while this went on and came away with a couple of F11 CDs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 14:21:46 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:21:46 +0400 Subject: Internet access at universities In-Reply-To: References: <4A1737C8.5030503@telly.org> <4A33D0D7.60905@gmail.com> <4A33FBD6.50303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A37AA7A.5040608@gmail.com> The subject is not related to Linux directly, but interesting, I believe, to many on this list. It happens that I am now in Russia and have a research position as a physicist at a university. For certain reason, I do not want say right now, at which exactly university (though, FSB [formerly KGB] and Canadian CSIS, likely know all these details). My point is: I am disgusted by the quality of Internet access from my university work place. The down transfer rate is intentionally limited to around 10 kBps. The Internet does not work always (for instance, no DNS). Using proxy (what a hell for? To monitor all internet usage of users?). And, finally, there are periods when outside Internet access is not available at all. Well... you may joke: you have what you wanted... But no, I did not want that. I am going to fight for better internet access from within university. This email is a step in that direction. I want to ask you, these who are at universities, students, employers: do you experience Internet traffic limitations at your place? What kind of limitations? How fast traffic is allowed? Is there port blocking imposed ? I have, for instance, outside port 22 blocked, which is ridiculous. The reason of these questions is that I would like to show results of this semi-survey to the staff at university around and raise the problem, by comparing standards used in Canada to these in Russia. When I come first to Canada, I got a very inexpensive, unlimited access to the Internet. That was in 1995. Thanks to that, I become indeed interested in the Internet and I did create tens of thousands of web pages and my name remained in Google searches. How young people (students in particular) who have no easy access to the internet can become interested in using that medium? The problem has much broader implications, though. Please reply, perhaps to me only, if you decide so. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 14:37:25 2009 From: overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Overholt) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:37:25 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Party Monday 15 June @ Linux Caffe In-Reply-To: References: <20090615130439.GB11129@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090616143725.GH28830@redhat.com> * D. Hugh Redelmeier [2009-06-16 10:14]: > | From: Andrew Overholt > > | Sorry for the incredibly short notice, but this evening at 6 PM at the > | Linux Caffe (Harbord & Grace in Toronto) we'll be hosting a Fedora 11 > | release party. > > Thanks, Andrew (and DJP) for inviting us. Thanks for coming, Hugh. It was nice seeing you and everyone else again. See you when Fedora 12 comes out if not sooner :) Andrew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 14:39:04 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:39:04 -0400 Subject: On Twitter and such... In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0906131947w73040687nfff13fe5884ddbf0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0906160739i16485642s4a8e89ef7cfc5f2@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > This list seems reasonably sensible, and points to the notion that > generating such a feed is probably quite a bit of work that someone > would need to do. ?It's not so much "heavy effort due to it taking a > long time" as it is "consistent effort that needs to take place on a > regular basis to find something of interest to readers." 'Been laid up for the last couple days; I know for a fact that you're right. Having passed up Twitter until only the last couple months, I now find that I could easily become an addict. In fact, I often have to force myself *not* to login. With my primary account, I try to focus on topics surrounding FOSS, Javascript, Privacy, Canadian Law & Politics and the Creative Commons. It's very easy to get distracted and the account suffers for it I think. In any event, it was mentioned off-list a few days ago that a proper GTALUG account on Twitter should be under the direction of the GTATLUG executive and I absolutely agree. (If given a mandate from the executive, I'd still be interested in doing so.) Cheers, -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 15:10:45 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:10:45 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) Message-ID: <99a6c38f0906160810n14454f28rc12bb6e1cedb474b@mail.gmail.com> I suggested to Darryl that TLUG has some respectable thinkers who might have some thoughts or advice on this. Any takers? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Darryl Moore Date: Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:16 AM Subject: [d at DCC] Competition Act To: d at dcc Hi List. I'm posting this here because I know there are a lot of people on this list who care about fair IP laws, and fair business practices. Many of them are Linux fans as well. The linux lists I subscribe too are all technical lists with few people that have an interest in legal issues. Particularly Canadian ones. If you do not care about Open source or violations of the Competition Act, then read no further and I apologizes for spamming your mailbox. I am trying to build a full featured native Linux network for businesses. One of the difficulties I will have in selling such a network, obviously, is the dominance of Microsoft operating systems. Note the following. (1) Because of their virtual monopoly, just about all companies will have at least one software package that can only run under windows. (2) Many small companies use only the version of windows that came on the machine when purchased. (3) Due to MS market dominance, MS can insist upon payments from OEMs for their software, and third party software vendors are willing to pay to have their MSWin compatible software included in OEM machines. The net result is that the cost of windows on a OEM machine is effectively negative, as can be witnessed when doing online price comparisons. (4) MS EULA prohibits the insertion of virtual machine software between the physical hardware and the operating system on low end OEM supplied operating systems. This effectively eliminates the ability for Linux (or other OSes) to compete (see point 1) The last point I believe meets the definition of tied selling under the competition act 77. (1) For the purposes of this section, "tied selling" means (a) any practice whereby a supplier of a product, as a condition of supplying the product (the "tying" product) to a customer, requires that customer to (ii) refrain from using or distributing, in conjunction with the tying product, another product that is not of a brand or manufacture designated by the supplier or the nominee, and In this case customers are being prohibited from using Linux and virtual machine software in a reasonable way with the Windows operating system they purchased. The prohibition of installing Linux and running the supplied Windows operating system inside linux on the same machine has the effect of significantly reducing the appeal of linux. The MS EULA convieniently refines hardware to include a software environment provided by VM software. I do not believe this is valid. It is an effective prohibition on using VM software and alternate operating systems contrary to section 77(1)(ii). It is no different really than specifying that MS windows cannot be used with Norton AV for example, which would be an obvious violation. section 79 of the act states that a dominant company that engages in this practice and negatively affects the market is in violation of the act. I want to lodge a complaint with the Competition Bureau to this effect, but I need 5 other people to sign it. If anyone else here agrees with the above and wants to participate please reply either privately or in this list. Thanks, Darryl Moore _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss-WolORMuebV4TBNh8kXeBKqyvx2GgBOVq930Pai70D+E at public.gmane.org http://list.digital-copyright.ca/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 15:34:53 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:34:53 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0906160810n14454f28rc12bb6e1cedb474b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0906160810n14454f28rc12bb6e1cedb474b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A37BB9D.6070508@telly.org> Scott Elcomb wrote: > (1) Because of their virtual monopoly, just about all companies will > have at least one software package that can only run under windows. > I find this one to be a bit of a logic leap that requires some hard evidence. Especially on the server side, Linux/Apache is as prevalent as Windows/IIS. >From a database standpoint. DB2 and Oracle and other server tools gladly run under non-Windows OSs. In any case, I note that Wine is now at release quality and runs quite a few Windows-platform apps. > (2) Many small companies use only the version of windows that came on the machine when purchased. > True to a point. Upgrades are being encouraged, and as we know Microsoft too has had very little success getting their installed base of XP users to upgrade to Vista. However, installing Linux post-purchase is not as difficult as it used to be so the Linux option -- which can be had at no additional cost, except for installation time -- is certainly viable. > (3) Due to MS market dominance, MS can insist upon payments from OEMs > for their software, and third party software vendors are willing to pay > to have their MSWin compatible software included in OEM machines. The > net result is that the cost of windows on a OEM machine is effectively > negative, as can be witnessed when doing online price comparisons. > Nothing is stopping a Linux vendor for doing such a thing also, though they will likely not succeed as well as MS. It is important to separate "smart (for them) business practice" from "illegal monopoly". > (4) MS EULA prohibits the insertion of virtual machine software between > the physical hardware and the operating system on low end OEM supplied > operating systems. This effectively eliminates the ability for Linux (or > other OSes) to compete (see point 1) > That's another substantial logic leap. You don't need a virtualization engine to replace Windows with Linux, or even to have them coexist on the same system. > The last point I believe meets the definition of tied selling under the competition act > I can see the path of logic in this argument and there's some reasoning to it. However, the gulf between shady and illegal is an extremely wide one. No question that MS has done what it can to reduce interoperability and maximize barriers to competitors -- it has done that to IBM OS/2 and Apple even before Linux existed. But it's not clear that the leap to establish this as illegal activity will be easy or even possible. The theory is the easy part. The hard part will be getting the research and evidence to prove it. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 15:38:46 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:38:46 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0906160810n14454f28rc12bb6e1cedb474b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0906160810n14454f28rc12bb6e1cedb474b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090616113846.62526dd5.tleslie@tcn.net> just some thoughts, - MS isn't a monopoly , it was, it is a big company that extorts (now), but a monopoly? saying its a monopoly (on OS), means you don't really think to highly of linux? - MS can legally run on VM, you just have to pay for the version that does, the higher priced version. - I did some reading years ago, and found some stuff that seemed to indicate MS agreements that running the cheaper copies on VM, may not be binding in Canada. is your fight for Canada or US? I agree in principle to what you are saying, but i think MS has covered their bases, by allowing it to run, just that you have to pay more. Looking at it, from MS side, they don't like VM, because it allows licensing to be skirted a bit more, i.e. clone VM's. They get you on SP upgrades, and HW changes that trigger license "call ins", but in general it opens them up to having their wares cloned. It also impacts there WTS product sales line revenue. MS is pretty sneaky (obviously), they know with MONO, and silverlight, they would have had trouble , especially in Europe, as if they are to replace flash, then there is your HUGELY tied issue. But by giving mono/moonlight just enough rope (freedom), they can technically skirt the tied issue (and they [MS] look after the Mac version). I still think MS biggest vulnerability (to prosecution), is their blatant extortion with patent threats. Not the actual threat itself, but why no details of the (possible) infringements seem to be published .. like the SCO debacle. Mark Ubuntu says its clear extortion, I wonder why no one has been able to call MS on it? Seems to me they should be locked up for life just on that one alone. -tl On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:10:45 -0400 Scott Elcomb wrote: > I suggested to Darryl that TLUG has some respectable thinkers who > might have some thoughts or advice on this. Any takers? > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Darryl Moore > Date: Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:16 AM > Subject: [d at DCC] Competition Act > To: d at dcc > > > Hi List. > > I'm posting this here because I know there are a lot of people on this > list who care about fair IP laws, and fair business practices. Many of > them are Linux fans as well. The linux lists I subscribe too are all > technical lists with few people that have an interest in legal issues. > Particularly Canadian ones. > > If you do not care about Open source or violations of the Competition > Act, then read no further and I apologizes for spamming your mailbox. > > > I am trying to build a full featured native Linux network for > businesses. One of the difficulties I will have in selling such a > network, obviously, is the dominance of Microsoft operating systems. > Note the following. > > (1) Because of their virtual monopoly, just about all companies will > have at least one software package that can only run under windows. > > (2) Many small companies use only the version of windows that came on > the machine when purchased. > > (3) Due to MS market dominance, MS can insist upon payments from OEMs > for their software, and third party software vendors are willing to pay > to have their MSWin compatible software included in OEM machines. The > net result is that the cost of windows on a OEM machine is effectively > negative, as can be witnessed when doing online price comparisons. > > (4) MS EULA prohibits the insertion of virtual machine software between > the physical hardware and the operating system on low end OEM supplied > operating systems. This effectively eliminates the ability for Linux (or > other OSes) to compete (see point 1) > > > The last point I believe meets the definition of tied selling under the > competition act > > 77. (1) For the purposes of this section, "tied selling" means > (a) any practice whereby a supplier of a product, as a condition of > supplying the product (the "tying" product) to a customer, requires that > customer to > (ii) refrain from using or distributing, in conjunction with the tying > product, another product that is not of a brand or manufacture > designated by the supplier or the nominee, and > > In this case customers are being prohibited from using Linux and virtual > machine software in a reasonable way with the Windows operating system > they purchased. The prohibition of installing Linux and running the > supplied Windows operating system inside linux on the same machine has > the effect of significantly reducing the appeal of linux. > > The MS EULA convieniently refines hardware to include a software > environment provided by VM software. I do not believe this is valid. It > is an effective prohibition on using VM software and alternate operating > systems contrary to section 77(1)(ii). It is no different really than > specifying that MS windows cannot be used with Norton AV for example, > which would be an obvious violation. > > section 79 of the act states that a dominant company that engages in > this practice and negatively affects the market is in violation of the act. > > I want to lodge a complaint with the Competition Bureau to this effect, > but I need 5 other people to sign it. > > If anyone else here agrees with the above and wants to participate > please reply either privately or in this list. > > > Thanks, > Darryl Moore > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss-WolORMuebV4TBNh8kXeBKqyvx2GgBOVq930Pai70D+E at public.gmane.org > http://list.digital-copyright.ca/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 16:53:36 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:53:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <20090616113846.62526dd5.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0906160810n14454f28rc12bb6e1cedb474b@mail.gmail.com> <20090616113846.62526dd5.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, ted leslie wrote: > - MS isn't a monopoly , it was, it is a big company that > extorts (now), but a monopoly? saying its a monopoly (on OS), > means you don't really think to highly of linux? Monopoly does not mean the only one in the market, but that the company has power (either from market share or any other way) to exclusively control the market behaviour. At one time this definitely true about Microsoft in personal computer and business workstation market. Those power has erode somewhat (thanks to Linux as well), but I am sure it is still not a free market for all. > - I did some reading years ago, and found some stuff that > seemed to indicate MS agreements that running the cheaper > copies on VM, may not be binding in Canada. That will be interesting if it can be confirmed. > from MS side, they don't like VM, because it allows licensing > to be skirted a bit more, i.e. clone VM's. They get you on SP > upgrades, and HW changes that trigger license "call ins", but > in general it opens them up to having their wares cloned. In the other hand, AFAIK the usage of virtualization may actually cause the use of more Windows installation (separate VM for each function). > Mark Ubuntu says its clear extortion, I wonder why no one has > been able to call MS on it? Good question. :-) -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 17:12:08 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:12:08 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <4A37BB9D.6070508-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0906160810n14454f28rc12bb6e1cedb474b@mail.gmail.com> <4A37BB9D.6070508@telly.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0906161012g2d14228i8642475cd9747fcc@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> (4) MS EULA prohibits the insertion of virtual machine software between >> the physical hardware and the operating system on low end OEM supplied >> operating systems. This effectively eliminates the ability for Linux (or >> other OSes) to compete (see point 1) >> > That's another substantial logic leap. > > You don't need a virtualization engine to replace Windows with Linux, or > even to have them coexist on the same system. Indeed. Come to think of it, I've found the Cygwin and Cygwin/X packages useful in plenty of situations where virtualization wasn't a great option. http://www.cygwin.com/ http://x.cygwin.com/ http://www.redhat.com/services/custom/cygwin/ -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 17:12:30 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:12:30 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) Message-ID: <4A37D27E.3040605@moores.ca> Hi guys. I wrote the original post. Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> (1) Because of their virtual monopoly, just about all companies will >> have at least one software package that can only run under windows. >> > I find this one to be a bit of a logic leap that requires some hard > evidence. > Especially on the server side, Linux/Apache is as prevalent as Windows/IIS. > From a database standpoint. DB2 and Oracle and other server tools gladly > run under non-Windows OSs. > > In any case, I note that Wine is now at release quality and runs quite a > few Windows-platform apps. > Quite possibly you are right on the server side. At least for some services, anyway. This is definately not the case on the desktop side. How many business have you seen running Linux desktops for their employees. As such most third part software is designed for the Windows desktop. I really don't think finding the evidence for this to be all that hard to do. >> (2) Many small companies use only the version of windows that came on the machine when purchased. >> > True to a point. Upgrades are being encouraged, and as we know Microsoft > too has had very little success getting their installed base of XP users > to upgrade to Vista. However, installing Linux post-purchase is not as > difficult as it used to be so the Linux option -- which can be had at no > additional cost, except for installation time -- is certainly viable. > The relivant question here will be "what is that point?" and "Does it present a comptition barrier?" >> (3) Due to MS market dominance, MS can insist upon payments from OEMs >> for their software, and third party software vendors are willing to pay >> to have their MSWin compatible software included in OEM machines. The >> net result is that the cost of windows on a OEM machine is effectively >> negative, as can be witnessed when doing online price comparisons. >> > Nothing is stopping a Linux vendor for doing such a thing also, though > they will likely not succeed as well as MS. > No, there is a lot stopping Linux vendors from doing the same thing. The only reason this works so well in MS favour is due to their dominate market position. > It is important to separate "smart (for them) business practice" from > "illegal monopoly". > >> (4) MS EULA prohibits the insertion of virtual machine software between >> the physical hardware and the operating system on low end OEM supplied >> operating systems. This effectively eliminates the ability for Linux (or >> other OSes) to compete (see point 1) >> > That's another substantial logic leap. > > You don't need a virtualization engine to replace Windows with Linux, or > even to have them coexist on the same system. > Absolutely true, however however it is still a significant barrier to competition, as dual booting all your workstations is a very undesirable method, and running linux in the VM negates most of the benifits of switching to Linux in the first place. Also you do not address the core point which is that MS is dictating how other software must interface with their own, and doing so for the sole purpose of limiting competition. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 17:19:44 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:19:44 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) Message-ID: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> ted leslie Write: > just some thoughts, > > - MS isn't a monopoly , it was, it is a big company that extorts > (now), but a monopoly? saying its a monopoly (on OS), means you don't > really think to highly of linux? - MS can legally run on VM, you just > have to pay for the version that does, the higher priced version. - I > did some reading years ago, and found some stuff that seemed to > indicate MS agreements that running the cheaper copies on VM, may not > be binding in Canada. is your fight for Canada or US? > MS is most definitely a monopoly on the business desktop. It has been proven in both US and EU courts. As far as charging more for the ability to run Windows on a VM, I believe that is covered under section 78 of the competition act 78. (1) For the purposes of section 79, ?anti-competitive act?, without restricting the generality of the term, includes any of the following acts: (a) squeezing, by a vertically integrated supplier, of the margin available to an unintegrated customer who competes with the supplier, for the purpose of impeding or preventing the customer?s entry into, or expansion in, a market; Please give me any references you may have regarding the enforcability of the MS EULA. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From unforgiven24-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 17:57:51 2009 From: unforgiven24-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Ward) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:57:51 -0400 Subject: On Twitter and such... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0906160739i16485642s4a8e89ef7cfc5f2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0906131947w73040687nfff13fe5884ddbf0@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0906160739i16485642s4a8e89ef7cfc5f2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5aa434200906161057i689868a4p3dd5af2a8bfa5a4b@mail.gmail.com> I'm not even in the GTA, but if I were, I don't think I'd care about a GTALUG twitter account - I don't see what good it would be. What might be useful, though, is a group for it. For those who don't know, it's like a hashtag - in a message, you just would have !gtalug and it'd be included the the group "gtalug". This is what the local LUG I'm in did. We're small and it gets nearly no use, but the idea is there. It still would provide a way to group together messages relevant to the group, and it's not a whole other account and whatnot. Quick example: http://identi.ca/group/wsulug - Mike On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: >> This list seems reasonably sensible, and points to the notion that >> generating such a feed is probably quite a bit of work that someone >> would need to do. ?It's not so much "heavy effort due to it taking a >> long time" as it is "consistent effort that needs to take place on a >> regular basis to find something of interest to readers." > > 'Been laid up for the last couple days; I know for a fact that you're > right. ?Having passed up Twitter until only the last couple months, I > now find that I could easily become an addict. ?In fact, I often have > to force myself *not* to login. > > With my primary account, I try to focus on topics surrounding FOSS, > Javascript, Privacy, Canadian Law & Politics and the Creative Commons. > ?It's very easy to get distracted and the account suffers for it I > think. > > In any event, it was mentioned off-list a few days ago that a proper > GTALUG account on Twitter should be under the direction of the GTATLUG > executive and I absolutely agree. ?(If given a mandate from the > executive, I'd still be interested in doing so.) > > Cheers, > > -- > ?Scott Elcomb > ?http://www.psema4.com/ ? @psema4 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 18:11:19 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:11:19 -0400 Subject: On Twitter and such... In-Reply-To: <5aa434200906161057i689868a4p3dd5af2a8bfa5a4b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0906131947w73040687nfff13fe5884ddbf0@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0906160739i16485642s4a8e89ef7cfc5f2@mail.gmail.com> <5aa434200906161057i689868a4p3dd5af2a8bfa5a4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0906161111l47cb4281p98942f7cb913d3e0@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Mike Ward wrote: > I'm not even in the GTA, but if I were, I don't think I'd care about a > GTALUG twitter account - I don't see what good it would be. > > What might be useful, though, is a group for it. For those who don't > know, it's like a hashtag - in a message, you just would have !gtalug > and it'd be included the the group "gtalug". This is what the local > LUG I'm in did. We're small and it gets nearly no use, but the idea is > there. It still would provide a way to group together messages > relevant to the group, and it's not a whole other account and whatnot. > > Quick example: http://identi.ca/group/wsulug Even better - content entirely controlled by participants. =) On Twitter the appropriate hashtags would be #gtalug and #wsulug . Thanks Mike. I find that an "elegant solution." -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ @psema4 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 18:27:06 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:27:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Website b0rked Message-ID: Hi all. I just got a call from someone who wanted commercial Linux support. I was going to send them to the consultant page on the website but it is all broken. Someone fix it and quick! :) -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 18:30:49 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Standardbred Canada (fwd) Message-ID: I received the following request via email and a follow-up phone call. As the website was down I have forwarded this email to the list with the permission of Janet. Rob ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:02:16 -0400 From: Janet Cookson To: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Subject: Standardbred Canada Hi Standardbred Canada is a not for profit company - located in Mississauga which is the record keeping body for Harness racing in Canada We have a web site www.standardbredcanada.ca which is hosted by Amazon, using Ubuntu Linux, PHP ,MYSQL and Apache and Drupal. The site was designed and implemented in house by a very intellegent person - who left at the end of 2008. Unfortunately we do not have the internal expertise to maintain the site. We have developers - who are all learning - who are working on new projects. The site is basically unstable - it crashes every few weeks - but we are having some difficulty discovering what the problems are Would you be interested in helping us. We would like to learn from whoever helps us so that we can develop the extpertise ourselves. We are also looking at outsourcing some of the projects Thanks Janet Cookson -- Janet Cookson Manager Information Technology Standardbred Canada http://www.standardbredcanada.ca 2150 Meadowvale Blvd, Mississauga, ON, L5N 6R6 Phone: (905)858-3060 ext 215 Fax: (905)858-3089 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 18:41:36 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:41:36 -0400 Subject: Website b0rked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have?it with the gtalug website constantly having hardware problems so I have started to transfer it to a new server. On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Hi all. ?I just got a call from someone who wanted commercial Linux support. ?I was going to send them to the consultant page on the website but it is all broken. ? Someone fix it and quick! :) > > -- > I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ Please consider the trees before print this email. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 18:59:51 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:59:51 -0400 Subject: Website b0rked In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The migration didn't go as planed to I fixed the old server. The website is up now. On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > > I have?it with the gtalug website constantly having hardware problems > so I have started to transfer it to a new server. > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Robert Brockway > wrote: > > > > Hi all. ?I just got a call from someone who wanted commercial Linux support. ?I was going to send them to the consultant page on the website but it is all broken. ? Someone fix it and quick! :) > > > > -- > > I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > Myles Braithwaite > me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ > > Please consider the trees before print this email. -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ Please consider the trees before print this email. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 19:09:11 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:09:11 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <4A37D430.7000502-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> Message-ID: <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> Darryl Moore wrote: > MS is most definitely a monopoly on the business desktop. It has been > proven in both US and EU courts. > Yes, but context was everything. The monopoly for which they were founnd guilty is completely different from the nature of your charge. In the US the punishment given was miniscule, and even that was pretty well eliminated when Bush took over from Clinton. The EU is more aggressive, but their complaint(s) so far have also been generally limited to issues related to browser bundling. > As far as charging more for the ability to run Windows on a VM, I believe that is covered under section 78 of the competition act > IANAL ... but neither are you. How about geting an opinion from CIPPIC or the EFF, where they *do* have the qualified legal ability to examine this (as well as any relevant case law)....? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 19:28:21 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:28:21 -0400 Subject: Standardbred Canada (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A37F255.3080200@utoronto.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > I received the following request via email and a follow-up phone call. > As the website was down I have forwarded this email to the list with the > permission of Janet. > > Rob Someone from the DUG-TO (Drupal Users Group Toronto) list would be interested and be a more targeted audience to ask I'd expect: http://lists.openject.com/listinfo/dug-to Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 19:27:06 2009 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:27:06 -0400 Subject: Funny Job posting Message-ID: <05ad01c9eeb8$737ffa90$5a7fefb0$@com> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/sad/1224481576.html "Extra Curricular: Must have 20+ years MMA fighting experience" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 19:42:19 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Funny Job posting Message-ID: <316196.97798.qm@web111214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> and it's titled, "Junior Network Administrator / ..." LOL --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > From: Ansar Mohammed > Subject: [TLUG]: Funny Job posting > To: tlug at ss.org > Received: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 3:27 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/sad/1224481576.html > > > ? > > ?Extra Curricular: Must have 20+ > years MMA fighting > experience? > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer? 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 19:42:27 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:42:27 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <4A37EDD7.6010504-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A37F5A3.3010303@moores.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Darryl Moore wrote: >> MS is most definitely a monopoly on the business desktop. It has >> been proven in both US and EU courts. >> > Yes, but context was everything. The monopoly for which they were > founnd guilty is completely different from the nature of your charge. > In the US the punishment given was miniscule, and even that was > pretty well eliminated when Bush took over from Clinton. The EU is > more aggressive, but their complaint(s) so far have also been > generally limited to issues related to browser bundling. > Well no, not exactly. The monopoly was exactly the same. The injured parties and the method of abusing that monopoly was different. Stop putting it all in the past tense. They are no less a monopoly now then they were then. It is BECAUSE they are now recognized as a monopoly that the EU is able to restrict their trading practices as they now do. It is because they have been found to be a monopoly that the section of the EULA restricting VM's should be struck down as I claim. If indeed your assertions are correct, that they are not a monopoly ( or at least do not hold a dominant position in the marketplace ), then my complaint is dead in the water right there. But as I said, I don't think it is difficult to prove otherwise. >> As far as charging more for the ability to run Windows on a VM, I >> believe that is covered under section 78 of the competition act >> > > IANAL ... but neither are you. > > How about geting an opinion from CIPPIC or the EFF, where they *do* > have the qualified legal ability to examine this (as well as any > relevant case law)....? > You are absolutely right. I am not a lawyer. Unfortunately, neither can I afford one. Fortunately, I do not need one to file a complaint. If one were to come forward and offer to help, I would gratefully accept it, but I wont let not having one stop me from trying my best. DYB DYB DYB. I know others who have done similarly in the past, and even if I am not successful, it is important to let the powers that be know how the marketplace is adversely affected by the actions of these dominant players. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 19:48:57 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <4A37EDD7.6010504-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> Message-ID: | From: Evan Leibovitch | IANAL ... but neither are you. That is key. As far as I know, noone speaking in this list on this topic is a lawyer. The rules are tricky. Or at least tricky enough that I think that nobody has got them right here. This is a legal question, not a natural justice question. Trying to argue based on some notion of natural justice will get you off track. Heck, even some basic facts are wrong. MS Windows Vista EULA now allows virtualization http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080121-microsoft-relents-vista-virtualization-ban-lifted.html It is not clear that PC vendors have bothered to change the EULA's that they ship. I checked with Acer and they were uninterested in changing my EULA. Having a monopoly is not illegal in Canada. Abusing a monopoly position is. Personally, I "feel" that Microsoft has abused a monopoly position. With no penalty or remedy. The Canadian Competition Bureau is pretty weak. I was party to a complaint about Microsoft over 7 years ago. The Competition Bureau would not even tell us the status of the complaint. Their reason: their investigatation process, if any, is confidential! Here is a pat on the back that they gave themselves for not doing anything at all about Microsoft. This is from a talk that the Commissioner gave 4 years ago tomorrow: Comity can apply to questions of abuse of dominance as well. In fact, with respect to Microsoft issues that arose a few years ago, we recognized that a global remedy was preferable to a patchwork quilt approach. In that matter, procedures in Canada would have likely resulted in a duplication of efforts, resources and remedies to achieve the same result. Given that the market for such computer products in North America is highly integrated, the Bureau thought it prudent to await the outcome of the case in the United States. I believe we should act with moderation and constraint when proposed enforcement action conflicts with another state?s action, when there is a significantly greater nexus with that jurisdiction and our concerns will be dealt with. http://competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/01867.html Funny that some of the (pathetically weak) remedies didn't apply to Canadians. From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 20:05:34 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:05:34 -0400 Subject: Funny Job posting In-Reply-To: <316196.97798.qm-ocD5SZSfVawA0QRgWO9Mevu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <316196.97798.qm@web111214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 6/16/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > and it's titled, "Junior Network Administrator / ..." LOL Yes, I read the job posting, and I was thinking "What drugs is this person on? If the drugs in question are not currently illegal, they ought to be." Some requirements, fluency in 6 languages ("English, French (Parisienne, not quebecois), Urdu, Hindi, Mandarin and Russian"), "24+ years Linux experience" (Linus Torvalds, creator of Linux only has some 18 years of Linux experience). Also, why should the sort of car you drive impact on employability ("Vehicle: We're looking for someone with a nice vehicle, preferably something in the 50-60k range. Fully licensed and insured. Must pay over $200 insurance each month."). Now, I know some employers ask for a bit more than they expect to get, but this is absurd... Bottom line is that there is NOBODY on planet Earth that could fill all of the requirements for this job... > --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> From: Ansar Mohammed >> Subject: [TLUG]: Funny Job posting >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Received: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 3:27 PM >> >> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/sad/1224481576.html >> >> ?Extra Curricular: Must have 20+ >> years MMA fighting >> experience? I had to look this up, MMA = Mixed Martial Arts... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 20:13:59 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Funny Job posting In-Reply-To: <05ad01c9eeb8$737ffa90$5a7fefb0$@com> References: <05ad01c9eeb8$737ffa90$5a7fefb0$@com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/sad/1224481576.html I was getting really excited about that posting for a while but unfortunately I don't speak Urdu. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 20:19:50 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:19:50 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A37FE66.9090504@moores.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > Heck, even some basic facts are wrong. > > MS Windows Vista EULA now allows virtualization > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080121-microsoft-relents-vista-virtualization-ban-lifted.html > It is not clear that PC vendors have bothered to change the EULA's > that they ship. I checked with Acer and they were uninterested in > changing my EULA. > That is an interesting article you point to. Unfortunately I fear it is the article that has the facts wrong. Not this thread. Refer to the MS EULA directly here: http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx It is quite clear. The relevant section is the one titled WINDOWS VISTA HOME BASIC and/or WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM 4. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may not use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system. I am afraid this is a slightly higher authority on MS license restrictions then a arstechnica.com article. > Having a monopoly is not illegal in Canada. Abusing a monopoly > position is. Personally, I "feel" that Microsoft has abused a > monopoly position. With no penalty or remedy. > > The Canadian Competition Bureau is pretty weak. I was party to a > complaint about Microsoft over 7 years ago. The Competition Bureau > would not even tell us the status of the complaint. Their reason: > their investigatation process, if any, is confidential! > You did not make a proper complaint then. (unless rules have changed now) The Act is here: http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/rsc-1985-c-c-34/latest/rsc-1985-c-c-34.html Section 10(1)(a) states that for a properly filed complaint, they must "cause an inquiry to be made into all such matters as the Commissioner considers necessary to inquire into with the view of determining the facts." And whether they make a full inquiry to get those facts or not should also have no bearing on 10(2) which says "The Commissioner shall, on the written request of any person whose conduct is being inquired into under this Act or any person who applies for an inquiry under section 9, inform that person or cause that person to be informed as to the progress of the inquiry." They had to tell you the status of your complaint and what progress they were making. > Here is a pat on the back that they gave themselves for not doing > anything at all about Microsoft. This is from a talk that the > Commissioner gave 4 years ago tomorrow: > > Comity can apply to questions of abuse of dominance as well. In > fact, with respect to Microsoft issues that arose a few years ago, > we recognized that a global remedy was preferable to a patchwork > quilt approach. In that matter, procedures in Canada would have > likely resulted in a duplication of efforts, resources and > remedies to achieve the same result. Given that the market for > such computer products in North America is highly integrated, the > Bureau thought it prudent to await the outcome of the case in the > United States. I believe we should act with moderation and > constraint when proposed enforcement action conflicts with another > state?s action, when there is a significantly greater > nexus with that jurisdiction and our concerns will be dealt with. > > http://competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/01867.html > I've read that before. Perhaps now that the EU and US inquiries are done, it is time for the Bureau to revisit this issue. That is the implication of the above quote. cheers, darryl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 20:24:05 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:24:05 -0400 Subject: Funny Job posting In-Reply-To: References: <05ad01c9eeb8$737ffa90$5a7fefb0$@com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > >> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/sad/1224481576.html > > I was getting really excited about that posting for a while but > unfortunately I don't speak Urdu. I particularly liked this bit: Strong motorola 68k assembler skills (we're looking to code a TCP/IP stack) My last *real* assembler was 6809 (an architecture that I very much liked!) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Samuel Goldwyn - "I'm willing to admit that I may not always be right, but I am never wrong." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/samuel_goldwyn.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 20:28:04 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:28:04 -0400 Subject: Funny Job posting In-Reply-To: References: <05ad01c9eeb8$737ffa90$5a7fefb0$@com> Message-ID: <4A380054.20901@moores.ca> But I can't figure out why they left out the requirement to be a brain surgeon and an astronaut. Everybody ought to know that the skill set they listed are useless without these as well. :-) Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Robert > Brockway wrote: >> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> >>> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/sad/1224481576.html >> I was getting really excited about that posting for a while but >> unfortunately I don't speak Urdu. > > I particularly liked this bit: > > Strong motorola 68k assembler skills (we're looking to code a TCP/IP stack) > > My last *real* assembler was 6809 (an architecture that I very much liked!) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 20:32:55 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Funny Job posting In-Reply-To: References: <05ad01c9eeb8$737ffa90$5a7fefb0$@com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: > My last *real* assembler was 6809 (an architecture that I very much liked!) So was mine actually :) And yes the 6809 was very cool. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 20:36:40 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:36:40 -0400 Subject: Funny Job posting In-Reply-To: <4A380054.20901-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <05ad01c9eeb8$737ffa90$5a7fefb0$@com> <4A380054.20901@moores.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Darryl Moore wrote: > But I can't figure out why they left out the requirement to be a brain > surgeon and an astronaut. Everybody ought to know that the skill set > they listed are useless without these as well. :-) Ah, yes, the "Buckaroo Banzai" job requirements. He's simultaneously all of the following: - neurosurgeon - particle physicist - racecar driver - rock star (with his band, the "Hong Kong Cavaliers", where he plays electric guitar and english horn) - serious gunman Awesome movie. I wish they'd made the sequel, Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime League! -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Mitch Hedberg - "I drank some boiling water because I wanted to whistle." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mitch_hedberg.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 20:57:03 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:57:03 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <4A37FE66.9090504-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> <4A37FE66.9090504@moores.ca> Message-ID: <4A38071F.4070602@telly.org> Darryl Moore wrote: > That is an interesting article you point to. Unfortunately I fear it is > the article that has the facts wrong. Not this thread. > > Refer to the MS EULA directly here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx > > It is quite clear. The relevant section is the one titled WINDOWS VISTA > HOME BASIC and/or WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM > > 4. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may not use the software > installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise > emulated) hardware system. > > I am afraid this is a slightly higher authority on MS license > restrictions then a arstechnica.com article. > And yet... if you look at the license for Vista Business (at the same website you point to), it is also quite clear: 3. d. "*Use with Virtualization Technologies*. You may use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system" So ... It's not that Microsoft prohibits virtualization in all versions of Vista or as corporate policy. It is only prohibited in the Home versions that trade lower cost for reduced functionality. This is a 100% legitimate, non-monopolistic approach (though certainly not the open source approach). You're being disingenuous in your approach by looking at the specific examples of licenses (that are KNOWN to be for reduced-functionality versions) and using them as the basis for a blanket condemnation of the company. If you're not being completely up-front here (and/or provably not doing your homework), how do you expect a skeptical reader to trust the rest of your assumptions and assertions? >> Having a monopoly is not illegal in Canada. Abusing a monopoly >> position is. Personally, I "feel" that Microsoft has abused a >> monopoly position. With no penalty or remedy. >> Or evidence. If you are appealing to law, remember that the law has no use for what you "feel". - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 21:19:38 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Funny Job posting In-Reply-To: References: <05ad01c9eeb8$737ffa90$5a7fefb0$@com> <4A380054.20901@moores.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: > I wish they'd made the sequel, Buckaroo Banzai Against the World Crime > League! I wanted to see what happened in "History of the world Part II". The short was great :) Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 21:22:10 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:22:10 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <4A38071F.4070602-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> <4A37FE66.9090504@moores.ca> <4A38071F.4070602@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A380D02.60009@moores.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Darryl Moore wrote: >> That is an interesting article you point to. Unfortunately I fear it is >> the article that has the facts wrong. Not this thread. >> >> Refer to the MS EULA directly here: >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx >> >> It is quite clear. The relevant section is the one titled WINDOWS VISTA >> HOME BASIC and/or WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM >> >> 4. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may not use the software >> installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise >> emulated) hardware system. >> >> I am afraid this is a slightly higher authority on MS license >> restrictions then a arstechnica.com article. >> > And yet... if you look at the license for Vista Business (at the same > website you point to), it is also quite clear: > > 3. d. "*Use with Virtualization Technologies*. You may use the > software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or > otherwise emulated) hardware system" > > > So ... It's not that Microsoft prohibits virtualization in all versions > of Vista or as corporate policy. It is only prohibited in the Home > versions that trade lower cost for reduced functionality. This is a 100% > legitimate, non-monopolistic approach (though certainly not the open > source approach). > > You're being disingenuous in your approach by looking at the specific > examples of licenses (that are KNOWN to be for reduced-functionality > versions) and using them as the basis for a blanket condemnation of the > company. If you're not being completely up-front here (and/or provably > not doing your homework), how do you expect a skeptical reader to trust > the rest of your assumptions and assertions? > I'm not being disingenuous, and I'm not disagreeing with you regarding the license. I do disagree with you that "This is a 100% legitimate, non-monopolistic approach". Recall in my original post I said many small businesses use the OS that came on their system. Usually that is Win Home or Win Pro. To get the Business version is almost always an upgrade option. This means that if you only want the functionality of Home or Pro, but you want to use it on a Linux based machine, you are still going to have to put out extra bucks to Microsoft for the privileged of doing so. This I see as a barrier and an anti-competitive act as described in section 78(1)(a). Now I am not a lawyer, as has already been well established, and I'm also not looking to this group to decide the validity of my position (though the criticism is welcome as it does help me better clarify it). I am looking for people who believe that there is merit to my position, (and my frequent quoting of the act is my attempt to lend some credibility to it) and are willing to put there name to a piece of paper that will force the Bureau to consider those merits themselves. I do welcome your criticism, but I see your accusation of disingenuousness as a slight as it suggest that my posts are less than earnest. cheers, darryl -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 21:22:16 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:22:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <4A37FE66.9090504-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> <4A37FE66.9090504@moores.ca> Message-ID: | From: Darryl Moore | D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > MS Windows Vista EULA now allows virtualization | > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080121-microsoft-relents-vista-virtualization-ban-lifted.html | That is an interesting article you point to. Unfortunately I fear it is | the article that has the facts wrong. Not this thread. | | Refer to the MS EULA directly here: | | http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx | | It is quite clear. The relevant section is the one titled WINDOWS VISTA | HOME BASIC and/or WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM Good point. I wonder what happened to this Microsoft press release: http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2008/jan08/01-21VirtualizationAdoptionPR.mspx For consumers, Windows Vista Home Basic and Windows Vista Home Premium are now licensed for use in a virtual machine environment, and the updated SP1 and Supplemental end-user license agreement for each product by language version is available at http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx | > The Canadian Competition Bureau is pretty weak. I was party to a | > complaint about Microsoft over 7 years ago. The Competition Bureau | > would not even tell us the status of the complaint. Their reason: | > their investigatation process, if any, is confidential! | | You did not make a proper complaint then. (unless rules have changed | now) The Act is here: Interesting. I was not the person communicating with the Bureau. I recently tried to follow up with the group who complained but could not get a response. | I've read that before. Perhaps now that the EU and US inquiries are | done, it is time for the Bureau to revisit this issue. That is the | implication of the above quote. Sounds like a useful interpretation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 21:31:52 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <4A38071F.4070602-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> <4A37FE66.9090504@moores.ca> <4A38071F.4070602@telly.org> Message-ID: | From: Evan Leibovitch | Darryl Moore wrote: | >> Having a monopoly is not illegal in Canada. Abusing a monopoly | >> position is. Personally, I "feel" that Microsoft has abused a | >> monopoly position. With no penalty or remedy. Actually, I wrote that. | Or evidence. | | If you are appealing to law, remember that the law has no use for what | you "feel". I thought my quoting of "feel" was emphasizing that very point. Especially since I'd discussed it earlier (but you didn't quote that). There is plenty of evidence that has been tested in several other legal regimes. No guarantee that it would be accepted here. But that isn't news: there are no quarantees. Am I correct in inferring a libertarian streak in you Evan? One that doesn't accept the idea of anti-trust regulations? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 21:33:22 2009 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:33:22 -0400 Subject: Funny Job posting In-Reply-To: References: <316196.97798.qm@web111214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A380FA2.9080903@the-wire.com> Colin McGregor wrote: >>> ?Extra Curricular: Must have 20+ >>> years MMA fighting >>> experience? > > I had to look this up, MMA = Mixed Martial Arts... Damn. If it had been MIDI Manufacturers Association, I'd have had it covered. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 21:43:07 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:43:07 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <4A37FE66.9090504-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> <4A37FE66.9090504@moores.ca> Message-ID: <20090616214307.GF18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 04:19:50PM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > > > Heck, even some basic facts are wrong. > > > > MS Windows Vista EULA now allows virtualization > > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080121-microsoft-relents-vista-virtualization-ban-lifted.html > > It is not clear that PC vendors have bothered to change the EULA's > > that they ship. I checked with Acer and they were uninterested in > > changing my EULA. > > > > That is an interesting article you point to. Unfortunately I fear it is > the article that has the facts wrong. Not this thread. > > Refer to the MS EULA directly here: > > http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx > > It is quite clear. The relevant section is the one titled WINDOWS VISTA > HOME BASIC and/or WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM > > 4. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may not use the software > installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise > emulated) hardware system. > > I am afraid this is a slightly higher authority on MS license > restrictions then a arstechnica.com article. Well I just checked at http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx And by selecting Vista SP1 Home Premium Retail edition, I found this in the license: 4. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. Instead of using the software directly on the licensed device, you may install and use the software within only one virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed device. When used in a virtualized environment, content protected by digital rights management technology, BitLocker or any full volume disk drive encryption technology may not be as secure as protected content not in a virtualized environment. You should comply with all domestic and international laws that apply to such protected content. If you select Vista without SP1, then you get a license that says: 4. USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION TECHNOLOGIES. You may not use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system. So as long as you use SP1, the license says you can do it. If you select the OEM version, then there is no SP1 updated license, and it still says no virtualization allowed. Anyhow, if you have SP1 and a retail copy of vista, then virtualization is OK by the license, otherwise it isn't, unless you have ultimate or business or enterprise editions. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 21:54:01 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:54:01 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> <4A37FE66.9090504@moores.ca> <4A38071F.4070602@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A381479.5030106@moores.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > Am I correct in inferring a libertarian streak in you Evan? One that > doesn't accept the idea of anti-trust regulations? > Libertarians are curious beasts, with positions that sometimes are self-contradicting. In regards to antitrust laws, libertarians want as free a market as possible. But what to do when a monopoly manages to establish itself in the market? It is no longer free. Some libertarians would support anti-trust laws in this context, and some would not. I've found a similar dilemma WRT intellectual property law. Intellectual property is by definition a monopoly on reproduction and distribution. Some libertarians think of it more as property and as such, support IP laws. Some see it as a monopoly and therefore all IP laws are wrong. Really it all depends on the stripes of the particular libertarian you are referring too. :-) For further reading, consult the official "Unabridged Book of North American Libertarians" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 22:04:57 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:04:57 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <4A380D02.60009-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> <4A37FE66.9090504@moores.ca> <4A38071F.4070602@telly.org> <4A380D02.60009@moores.ca> Message-ID: <4A381709.701@telly.org> Darryl Moore wrote: > I'm not being disingenuous, and I'm not disagreeing with you regarding > the license. I do disagree with you that "This is a 100% legitimate, > non-monopolistic approach". Recall in my original post I said many small > businesses use the OS that came on their system. You are being either deliberately misleading, or you're not doing even the least shred of research that could wreck your assertions. > Usually that is Win Home or Win Pro. I just went to www.dell.ca - Chose "small business", then selected the least expensive CPU option available. It offered me a choice of three OS pre-load options: Home Basic, Business or Ultimate. If you choose the cheapest option then you lose a number of features, not just virtualization but some networking capabilities as well. But it's possible (and even recommended by Dell) to have the system preloaded with Vista Business. A buyer who don't know the difference between Home and Business Vista probably doesn't possess the sophistication to want -- let alone know how to install -- multiple OSs under virtualization. In any case, your position regarding monopoly is significantly weaker now than it was even just a year ago. The rise of netbooks -- and the number of companies offering Linux pre-installs, as well as the number of Linux providers creating innovative and customized versions for the small laptops -- are Microsoft's bigest OS nightmares right now. But they also constitute a solid defence against claims of monopoly abuse. If people prefer Windows that's their choice, they now have many options. Enough Linux systems have sold to allow anyone to make the case that if you want a system that is very useful yet free of any Microsoft components, you can get one fairly easily. You also have business and governments that are increasingly mandating a level playing field for open source -- just look at Vancouver's recent initiatives. Even the US department of Homeland Security is actively supporting open source development: http://www.oss-institute.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=338&Itemid=47 In other words, your window of opportunity is essentially closed; you're welcome to pursue your claim but don't expect more than polite dismissal. (Where were you when Microsoft was REALLY abusing their position -- during the ODF/OOXML feuds?) My main point is this: If you have all this advocacy energy to burn, why not focus it positively rather than negatively, on persuasion rather than complaint, where you can be listened to rather than ignored? There's a great opportunity now to try to get Toronto to follow Vancouver's path... We can advance open source quite nicely without even having to mention -- let alone badmouth -- Microsoft. And you don't need to be a lawyer to do it. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 22:10:13 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:10:13 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> <4A37FE66.9090504@moores.ca> <4A38071F.4070602@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A381845.5050205@telly.org> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Am I correct in inferring a libertarian streak in you Evan? One that > doesn't accept the idea of anti-trust regulations? > It's not so much a libertarian streak so much of a deep mistrust of the legal system as a tool to accomplish this particular form of advocacy. Even in the EU, where anti-Microsoft sentiment is strongest, the remedies will not really change anything. We need to be positive. Most people are quite aware of Microsoft's shortcomings; we need to continue to assert a credible alternative. I still believe that the greatest obstacle to FOSS adoption now is inertia far more than Microsoft. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 16 22:25:13 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:25:13 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <4A380D02.60009-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> <4A37FE66.9090504@moores.ca> <4A38071F.4070602@telly.org> <4A380D02.60009@moores.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Darryl Moore wrote: > I'm not being disingenuous, and I'm not disagreeing with you regarding > the license. I do disagree with you that "This is a 100% legitimate, > non-monopolistic approach". Recall in my original post I said many small > businesses use the OS that came on their system. Usually that is Win > Home or Win Pro. To get the Business version is almost always an upgrade > option. This means that if you only want the functionality of Home or > Pro, but you want to use it on a Linux based machine, you are still > going to have to put out extra bucks to Microsoft for the privileged of > doing so. This I see as a barrier and an anti-competitive act as > described in section 78(1)(a). This may be undesirable in various ways, but for it to be considered "anticompetitive" according to the law requires having a fair bit of evidence *that the court agrees with*. I fully expect that there are ways of characterizing the above that allow interpreting it in a way that does not fit into 78(1)(a). > I do welcome your criticism, but I see your accusation of > disingenuousness as a slight as it suggest that my posts are less than > earnest. My sense is that you may be *too* earnest here, that you are effectively pre-supposing that your position is the only one that could possibly be argued. Microsoft offers operating systems that *are* permissible to run in a virtualized fashion; that those versions are more expensive than those for which this is inpermissible does not necessarily reflect an anti-competitive action. Or, to be more precise, a court may not necessarily view that this situation represents anti-competitive action. I think that's what Evan has in mind, and I generally agree. I don't believe this is forcibly about libertarianism: instead it is about trying to think about what the court (and people that are not "us") may perceive. Much as with the tale of the blind men and the elephant (it's like a tree! no, a wall! no, a very smelly rope!), it is quite likely that there are multiple perspective, and we do not do well to only accept, as possible interpretations, those that are most convenient to our preferences. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Rodney Dangerfield - "What a dog I got, his favorite bone is in my arm." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/r/rodney_dangerfield.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 17 00:25:55 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:25:55 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <4A381709.701-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> <4A37FE66.9090504@moores.ca> <4A38071F.4070602@telly.org> <4A380D02.60009@moores.ca> <4A381709.701@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A383813.2050507@moores.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Darryl Moore wrote: >> I'm not being disingenuous, and I'm not disagreeing with you regarding >> the license. I do disagree with you that "This is a 100% legitimate, >> non-monopolistic approach". Recall in my original post I said many small >> businesses use the OS that came on their system. > You are being either deliberately misleading, or you're not doing even > the least shred of research that could wreck your assertions. > You really should at least make some effort to justify that statement. >> Usually that is Win Home or Win Pro. > I just went to www.dell.ca - Chose "small business", then selected the > least expensive CPU option available. It offered me a choice of three OS > pre-load options: Home Basic, Business or Ultimate. > > If you choose the cheapest option then you lose a number of features, > not just virtualization but some networking capabilities as well. But > it's possible (and even recommended by Dell) to have the system > preloaded with Vista Business. > > A buyer who don't know the difference between Home and Business Vista > probably doesn't possess the sophistication to want -- let alone know > how to install -- multiple OSs under virtualization. > If you are running a pure Linux network, then the chances are good that you do not want all those extra networking features. The only reason for wanting Windows in the first place is because some third party apps demand it. (See one of my previous posts about the MS monopoly) In this context the bare minimum Windows machine is desireable. Yes, and that would be the Home version. Being forced to pay a extra $50 -$90 just so you can have that bridge software puts a significant dent in Linux's competitiveness on the desktop. > In any case, your position regarding monopoly is significantly weaker > now than it was even just a year ago. > No it's not. In the above scenario, many companies would argue, "well if I have to spend that much any way on any proportion of my network, then I might as well make the whole network windows". That is why these license restrictions exist in the first place. To make the alternatives more expensive. It isn't like Microsoft actually has to do anything different with the software to enable it to run under a VM. It is a totally arbitrary restriction. They might as well tell you that on their Home version you have to use their AV software. If you want to use Norton, well, you are just going to have to pay MS more money for the privilege. I'm sure you would see the latter as being a very anti-competitive abuse of their position, but it is the exact same argument for the former too. > The rise of netbooks -- and the number of companies offering Linux > pre-installs, as well as the number of Linux providers creating > innovative and customized versions for the small laptops -- are > Microsoft's bigest OS nightmares right now. But they also constitute a > solid defence against claims of monopoly abuse. If people prefer Windows > that's their choice, they now have many options. Enough Linux systems > have sold to allow anyone to make the case that if you want a system > that is very useful yet free of any Microsoft components, you can get > one fairly easily. > You obviously haven't been into a Futureshop or TigerDirect store lately. Good luck getting a yourself a Linux Netbook these days. I think there are a host of reasons for this, but I think that is the topic of another thread. > You also have business and governments that are increasingly mandating a > level playing field for open source -- just look at Vancouver's recent > initiatives. Even the US department of Homeland Security is actively > supporting open source development: > http://www.oss-institute.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=338&Itemid=47 > > In other words, your window of opportunity is essentially closed; you're > welcome to pursue your claim but don't expect more than polite dismissal. > (Where were you when Microsoft was REALLY abusing their position -- > during the ODF/OOXML feuds?) > But these organizations are still required to be fiscally prudent. If MS can artificially raise the cost of the competition then they will still have the advantage. Most of these initiative have much stronger wording on Open Standards then they do regarding Open Source. > My main point is this: If you have all this advocacy energy to burn, why > not focus it positively rather than negatively, on persuasion rather > than complaint, where you can be listened to rather than ignored? > There's a great opportunity now to try to get Toronto to follow > Vancouver's path... We can advance open source quite nicely without even > having to mention -- let alone badmouth -- Microsoft. And you don't need > to be a lawyer to do it. > I am all for getting Toronto to follow suit, and would help with that too. It is all well and good to get Toronto to throw a rope down to Open Source and say "Hey guys, come on up, you're all welcome here", but then have Microsoft come along and spread grease on that rope. I am curious about your definition of "badmouthing". I don't think it means what you think it means. No vulgarities have ever passed my keyboard. I contend that the restrictions on VM for MS basic operating systems constitutes an anti-competitive act because MS is, by far, the dominant player in the market. These are totally arbitrary restrictions designed solely to limit competition. I am only seeking the opportunity to put this before the Competition Bureau. Stating this and my reasoning for it hardly constitutes "badmouthing". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 17 00:41:59 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:41:59 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> <4A37FE66.9090504@moores.ca> <4A38071F.4070602@telly.org> <4A380D02.60009@moores.ca> Message-ID: <4A383BD7.9040206@moores.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Darryl Moore wrote: >> I'm not being disingenuous, and I'm not disagreeing with you regarding >> the license. I do disagree with you that "This is a 100% legitimate, >> non-monopolistic approach". Recall in my original post I said many small >> businesses use the OS that came on their system. Usually that is Win >> Home or Win Pro. To get the Business version is almost always an upgrade >> option. This means that if you only want the functionality of Home or >> Pro, but you want to use it on a Linux based machine, you are still >> going to have to put out extra bucks to Microsoft for the privileged of >> doing so. This I see as a barrier and an anti-competitive act as >> described in section 78(1)(a). > > This may be undesirable in various ways, but for it to be considered > "anticompetitive" according to the law requires having a fair bit of > evidence *that the court agrees with*. > Absolutely! And we'll never find out if the court agrees or not if we do not put it before them. Or in this case the Competition Bureau. > I fully expect that there are ways of characterizing the above that > allow interpreting it in a way that does not fit into 78(1)(a). > >> I do welcome your criticism, but I see your accusation of >> disingenuousness as a slight as it suggest that my posts are less than >> earnest. > > My sense is that you may be *too* earnest here, that you are > effectively pre-supposing that your position is the only one that > could possibly be argued. > I'm not sure how you come away with that. Simply stating my position in no way implies that I cannot see the merits of other perspectives. Though I do think I have the stronger argument as I am sure you think otherwise. > Microsoft offers operating systems that *are* permissible to run in a > virtualized fashion; that those versions are more expensive than those > for which this is inpermissible does not necessarily reflect an > anti-competitive action. > > Or, to be more precise, a court may not necessarily view that this > situation represents anti-competitive action. I think that's what > Evan has in mind, and I generally agree. > You may be right. We'll never know until the Competition Bureau actually looks at it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 17 03:56:23 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:56:23 -0400 Subject: Funny Job posting In-Reply-To: References: <05ad01c9eeb8$737ffa90$5a7fefb0$@com> Message-ID: <4A386967.3080507@dinamis.com> On 16/06/09 04:13 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > >> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/sad/1224481576.html > > I was getting really excited about that posting for a while but > unfortunately I don't speak Urdu. No problem. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 17 04:04:07 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:04:07 -0400 Subject: Linux Networks & the Competition Act (Was: Fwd: [d@DCC] Competition Act) In-Reply-To: <4A383813.2050507-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4A37D430.7000502@moores.ca> <4A37EDD7.6010504@telly.org> <4A37FE66.9090504@moores.ca> <4A38071F.4070602@telly.org> <4A380D02.60009@moores.ca> <4A381709.701@telly.org> <4A383813.2050507@moores.ca> Message-ID: <4A386B37.8020103@dinamis.com> On 16/06/09 08:25 PM, Darryl Moore wrote: > If you are running a pure Linux network, then the chances are good that > you do not want all those extra networking features. The only reason for > wanting Windows in the first place is because some third party apps > demand it. (See one of my previous posts about the MS monopoly) In this > context the bare minimum Windows machine is desireable. Yes, and that > would be the Home version. Being forced to pay a extra $50 -$90 just so > you can have that bridge software puts a significant dent in Linux's > competitiveness on the desktop. Your tortured logic escapes me. You're suggesting Microsoft charges *more* to put Linux at a competitive disadvantage? So why doesn't Red Hat, Novell, Ubuntu, Mandriva, etc. charge *even more* to put Windows at a "competitive disadvantage"? Every company seeks to maximize its profits. So what if Microsoft charges what the market will bear? No one forces companies or individuals to buy MS products. >> In any case, your position regarding monopoly is significantly weaker >> now than it was even just a year ago. >> > > > No it's not. In the above scenario, many companies would argue, "well if > I have to spend that much any way on any proportion of my network, then > I might as well make the whole network windows". Or they could just as easily say, "I don't want to spend that much so I'd rather use Linux." Nonetheless, I think trying to sell Linux on price for most businesses is a lost cause. There has to be something more than "we're cheaper than the other guy". That's not a sustainable competitive advantage, even if your product supposedly costs zero, which it really doesn't. > That is why these > license restrictions exist in the first place. To make the alternatives > more expensive. That is your wishful (mis)interpretation. An equally valid and a more likely one is product differentiation. Cheap product, fewer features. More expensive product, more features. The most expensive product, all the features. > It isn't like Microsoft actually has to do anything > different with the software to enable it to run under a VM. It is a > totally arbitrary restriction. They might as well tell you that on their > Home version you have to use their AV software. If you want to use > Norton, well, you are just going to have to pay MS more money for the > privilege. I'm sure you would see the latter as being a very > anti-competitive abuse of their position, but it is the exact same > argument for the former too. But MS doesn't force you to use MS AV. You're free to turn your Core 2 Duo into a 486/33 by installing Norton AV if you like. >> The rise of netbooks -- and the number of companies offering Linux >> pre-installs, as well as the number of Linux providers creating >> innovative and customized versions for the small laptops -- are >> Microsoft's bigest OS nightmares right now. But they also constitute a >> solid defence against claims of monopoly abuse. If people prefer Windows >> that's their choice, they now have many options. Enough Linux systems >> have sold to allow anyone to make the case that if you want a system >> that is very useful yet free of any Microsoft components, you can get >> one fairly easily. >> > > You obviously haven't been into a Futureshop or TigerDirect store > lately. Good luck getting a yourself a Linux Netbook these days. I think > there are a host of reasons for this, but I think that is the topic of > another thread. > > >> You also have business and governments that are increasingly mandating a >> level playing field for open source -- just look at Vancouver's recent >> initiatives. Even the US department of Homeland Security is actively >> supporting open source development: >> http://www.oss-institute.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=338&Itemid=47 >> >> In other words, your window of opportunity is essentially closed; you're >> welcome to pursue your claim but don't expect more than polite dismissal. >> (Where were you when Microsoft was REALLY abusing their position -- >> during the ODF/OOXML feuds?) >> > > But these organizations are still required to be fiscally prudent. If MS > can artificially raise the cost of the competition then they will still > have the advantage. There is that wacky "let's raise the price to shut out competitors" concept again. How is it that organizations that have to be fiscally prudent, as if there were many that didn't have to be, would tolerate these "artificial" price increases? Are you suggesting that the demand for Windows is inelastic, like the demand for a necessity of life? > Most of these initiative have much stronger wording > on Open Standards then they do regarding Open Source. > > >> My main point is this: If you have all this advocacy energy to burn, why >> not focus it positively rather than negatively, on persuasion rather >> than complaint, where you can be listened to rather than ignored? >> There's a great opportunity now to try to get Toronto to follow >> Vancouver's path... We can advance open source quite nicely without even >> having to mention -- let alone badmouth -- Microsoft. And you don't need >> to be a lawyer to do it. >> > > I am all for getting Toronto to follow suit, and would help with that > too. It is all well and good to get Toronto to throw a rope down to Open > Source and say "Hey guys, come on up, you're all welcome here", but then > have Microsoft come along and spread grease on that rope. Competition is good. I'm glad that Microsoft is a tough competitor. Linux wouldn't be what it is today without Microsoft. > I am curious about your definition of "badmouthing". I don't think it > means what you think it means. No vulgarities have ever passed my > keyboard. I contend that the restrictions on VM for MS basic operating > systems constitutes an anti-competitive act because MS is, by far, the > dominant player in the market. These are totally arbitrary restrictions > designed solely to limit competition. And what if "the restrictions on VM for MS basic operating systems" was solely intended to have people who require more functionality to pay more? > I am only seeking the opportunity > to put this before the Competition Bureau. Stating this and my reasoning > for it hardly constitutes "badmouthing". No, it's just being na?ve about how business works. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 17 18:48:54 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:48:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux Foundation training available in Toronto. Message-ID: WARNING: Shameless self-promotion ahead! Danger, danger, Will Robinson! Hi, folks. As of this morning, I'm authorized to market and teach the following Linux foundation courses in the area, which would include, well, pretty much anywhere I'm prepared to travel if there's a company with enough students to justify a class: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/training The Linux Foundation is just getting started with an ambitious training program and, at the moment, they're doing most of their delivery virtually. I, on the other hand, have a long career of stand-up, instructor-led training. So what does this mean? First, it means that I'm going to be polishing up a number of my existing courses and, if the LF likes them, they'll be added to the LF course catalog. It will be a bit chaotic at first, but this isn't going to happen overnight. However, while that plan is slowly coming together, I've been given permission to market those courses locally if there are companies who are interested in the personal, instructor-led option. It's the LF's way of saying, "Developing all that courseware is going to take time, so here's a way for you to make money while you're doing it." It's going to be fairly ad hoc, and the cost would be *considerably* cheaper than the prices that are listed above, which represents the normal per-student, virtual tuition fee. I have some latitude in how much I can charge (haven't even nailed that down yet), but if you have even a small group of potential students at one location and a feasible classroom, drop me a note and we'll see what we can work out. I'm fairly sure I can offer some pretty good deals compared to what else is out there. This promises to be some kind of fun. Chaotic, but fun. rday P.S. Free at no extra charge: How to write a kernel module: http://www.crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Writing_your_first_kernel_module It's what I do to amuse myself. I need to get out more often. -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 02:38:39 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:38:39 -0700 Subject: quad-64 CD/DVD In-Reply-To: <4A3674BD.3020504-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A1737C8.5030503@telly.org> <4A33D0D7.60905@gmail.com> <4A33FBD6.50303@gmail.com> <4A3674BD.3020504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420906171938i4972a16flc5892f5394629214@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > After that, I added user to several groups: > /usr/sbin/usermod -G haldaemon -a zbych > /usr/sbin/usermod -G daemon -a zbych > /usr/sbin/usermod -G disk -a zbych > > After these commands, I am able to mount it manually as user (but I do not > know which one of these 3 was needed). > > However, when I insert DVD, it does not get mounted automatically. I can > however boot from that DVD. On my Gentoo system, users have to be members of the plugdev group to get hotpluggable media support. Maybe your system has a similar group? Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 03:44:26 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:44:26 -0400 Subject: Microsoft ad campaign Message-ID: <4A39B81A.2090808@alteeve.com> The arrogance, it hurts... http://www.microsoft.com/australia/ie8/competition/ In case it gets deleted: http://madisonave.ca/misc/ms_desperate.png Never mind all the anti-competitive crap they've been through, you'd think simple good taste would have won out. I mean: "But you'll never find [the prize] using that browser. (So get rid of it, or get lost!)" If you use an UA switcher and pretend to be IE8, you get a much more polite website. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 04:57:28 2009 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:57:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft ad campaign In-Reply-To: <4A39B81A.2090808-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A39B81A.2090808@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Why only in Australia? > The arrogance, it hurts... > > http://www.microsoft.com/australia/ie8/competition/ > > In case it gets deleted: > > http://madisonave.ca/misc/ms_desperate.png > > Never mind all the anti-competitive crap they've been through, you'd > think simple good taste would have won out. I mean: > > "But you'll never find [the prize] using that browser. (So get rid of > it, or get lost!)" > > If you use an UA switcher and pretend to be IE8, you get a much more > polite website. > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 12:32:14 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:32:14 -0400 Subject: aac metadata: chapters in m4b audiobooks? Message-ID: <1245328334.4474.1330.camel@gont> hey folks, i'm converting a bunch of librivox audiobooks to aac-based "m4b" files. Files named with this extension are read by my iPod as audiobooks, enabling the ipod to remember where I was in the book when I last stopped listening to the file. this is great, and I use a little script for the purpose, using mp3wrap to first join a sequence of mp3 filesi nto one great big file, then converting the file into pcm and finally aac. the important part of the script looks like this: mp3wrap AudioBookScript *.mp3 mplayer -vc null -vo null -ao pcm:nowaveheader:fast:file=AudioBookScript.pcm \ AudioBookScript_MP3WRAP.mp3 faac -R $SAMPLERATE -B 16 -C $CHANNELS -X -w -q 80 --artist "$AUTHOR" --album "$TITLE" \ --title "TITLE" --track "1" --genre "Spoken Word" --year "year" \ -o "$STRIPPEDTITLE.m4b" AudioBookScript.pcm what I would love, though, is to somehow insert chapter marks into the resultant aac file when it's reencoded. I don't think it would be too hard to generate a list of 'cut points' -- one way would be to simply add up the times of the original, individual mp3 files, a better way would be to use the index created by mp3wrap when it generates the large file (can't understnad how to access that index yet, though). Anyway, my bigger problem is that i can't seem to fine an option in faac that would allow me to add chapter information to the file. does anyone know how that information is stored, and where I might find it? thanks much, matt -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 15:40:46 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:40:46 -0400 Subject: Microsoft ad campaign In-Reply-To: References: <4A39B81A.2090808@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090618154046.GG18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:57:28AM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: > Why only in Australia? Why not? Generally each country has its own rules about contests, so microsoft australia doing a contest makes perfectly good sense. Besides $10000AU isn't worth nearly as many $s here. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 15:55:52 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:55:52 -0400 Subject: Microsoft ad campaign In-Reply-To: <20090618154046.GG18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4A39B81A.2090808@alteeve.com> <20090618154046.GG18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A3A6388.8040104@telly.org> What I find surprising is the outright boast that it is possible to make pages that will display only in IE8 that _can't_ display in anything else. Isn't IE8 supposed to be the most standards-compliant version of Explorer ever? This has the potential to hurt MS's claims of wanting greater interoperability -- as they appear to take pride in the ability to be incompatible with anything else. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 16:18:57 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:18:57 -0700 Subject: Microsoft ad campaign In-Reply-To: <4A3A6388.8040104-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A39B81A.2090808@alteeve.com> <20090618154046.GG18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A3A6388.8040104@telly.org> Message-ID: I'm not sure if the pages will display only in IE8 by their own merit. Seems more likely that they've got an agent-check, especially since you can fake out the given page with a UA switcher. (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 18-Jun-09, at 8:55 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > What I find surprising is the outright boast that it is possible to > make > pages that will display only in IE8 that _can't_ display in anything > else. > > Isn't IE8 supposed to be the most standards-compliant version of > Explorer ever? > > This has the potential to hurt MS's claims of wanting greater > interoperability -- as they appear to take pride in the ability to be > incompatible with anything else. > > - Evan > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 16:31:21 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:31:21 -0400 Subject: Microsoft ad campaign In-Reply-To: References: <4A39B81A.2090808@alteeve.com> <20090618154046.GG18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A3A6388.8040104@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A3A6BD9.5040803@alteeve.com> Aviss,Tyler wrote: > I'm not sure if the pages will display only in IE8 by their own merit. > Seems more likely that they've got an agent-check, especially since you > can fake out the given page with a UA switcher. That seems to be the case. Switching your UA to IE8 shows the clues. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 16:40:12 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:40:12 -0400 Subject: Microsoft ad campaign In-Reply-To: <4A3A6388.8040104-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A39B81A.2090808@alteeve.com> <20090618154046.GG18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A3A6388.8040104@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090618124012.749aa6b2.tleslie@tcn.net> in top of page i see it says, click here to download silver light, i wonder if thats a hint :) but the fact moonlight wouldn't render it (if in fact the prize is silverlight based, which would make sense), would not shine well on moonlight, but then, its fully declared moonlight is about a 0.5 version (tracking) off of MS's, which is fine, given the nature of the project. -tl On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 11:55:52 -0400 Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > What I find surprising is the outright boast that it is possible to make > pages that will display only in IE8 that _can't_ display in anything else. > > Isn't IE8 supposed to be the most standards-compliant version of > Explorer ever? > > This has the potential to hurt MS's claims of wanting greater > interoperability -- as they appear to take pride in the ability to be > incompatible with anything else. > > - Evan > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 17:05:14 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:05:14 -0700 Subject: New gov't Internet laws Message-ID: <289DDA37-92F9-44D7-A602-D7DE08A09577@gmail.com> Just heard on the radio that the conservatives are trying to pass a law that would allow police to request subscriber info from ISPs without a warrant, and force retention of user data during "hidden" investigations. Anyone heard of this or know the bill? (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 17:21:26 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:21:26 -0400 Subject: Microsoft ad campaign In-Reply-To: <4A3A6388.8040104-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A39B81A.2090808@alteeve.com> <20090618154046.GG18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A3A6388.8040104@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090618172126.GH18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:55:52AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > What I find surprising is the outright boast that it is possible to make > pages that will display only in IE8 that _can't_ display in anything else. > > Isn't IE8 supposed to be the most standards-compliant version of > Explorer ever? > > This has the potential to hurt MS's claims of wanting greater > interoperability -- as they appear to take pride in the ability to be > incompatible with anything else. Being standards compliant does not prevent supporting things beyond any standard. Browsers have done that all the time. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 17:23:22 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:23:22 -0400 Subject: Creating an unformatted, unmounted LVM LV in kickstart Message-ID: <4A3A780A.7050400@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am setting up a kickstart file for a CentOS 5.3/Xen install and want to have it create a logical volume on a VG, but not format or mount it. The reason is, I will give the partition to a specific virtual machine, so would just has to unmount it and remove it's entry from fstab, which kind of defeats having it pre-built with the OS install as I can just as easy create it after the fact. I've got: ### LVM setup. raid pv.20 --fstype "physical volume (LVM)" --level=RAID1 --device=md2 raid.11 raid.21 volgroup vg0 --pesize=32768 pv.20 logvol / --fstype ext3 --name=lv0 --vgname=vg0 --size=20000 logvol /vm --fstype ext3 --name=lv1 --vgname=vg0 --size=250000 Could I simply add: logvol --name=lv2 --vgname=vg0 --size=1 --grow Without the mount point or fstype being specified? Thanks for any help! Google is failing me... Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 18:19:07 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:19:07 -0400 Subject: New gov't Internet laws In-Reply-To: <289DDA37-92F9-44D7-A602-D7DE08A09577-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <289DDA37-92F9-44D7-A602-D7DE08A09577@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090618181907.GA30059@yam.witteman.ca> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 10:05:14AM -0700, Aviss,Tyler wrote: > Just heard on the radio that the conservatives are trying to pass a law > that would allow police to request subscriber info from ISPs without a > warrant, and force retention of user data during "hidden" > investigations. > > Anyone heard of this or know the bill? Here in Canada we are blessed with a committed and vocal advocate for civil rights and electronic communications - Michael Geist. I had not heard of the above-mentioned bill, but I figured I'd find it faster through his site than any other method. Here is his post about it: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4069/125/ -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 18:51:25 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:51:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft ad campaign In-Reply-To: <4A39B81A.2090808-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A39B81A.2090808@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jun 2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > The arrogance, it hurts... > > http://www.microsoft.com/australia/ie8/competition/ > > In case it gets deleted: > > http://madisonave.ca/misc/ms_desperate.png > > Never mind all the anti-competitive crap they've been through, you'd think > simple good taste would have won out. I mean: > > "But you'll never find [the prize] using that browser. (So get rid of it, or > get lost!)" > > If you use an UA switcher and pretend to be IE8, you get a much more polite > website. Thanks Madi. I'm going to forward it to Linux Australia. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 18:57:41 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:57:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft ad campaign In-Reply-To: <20090618154046.GG18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4A39B81A.2090808@alteeve.com> <20090618154046.GG18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jun 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:57:28AM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: >> Why only in Australia? > > Why not? Generally each country has its own rules about contests, > so microsoft australia doing a contest makes perfectly good sense. > Besides $10000AU isn't worth nearly as many $s here. :) About C$9000 at the moment. AUD has been rising on the back of commodity prices. I find this very annoying as I have a mortgage there :) I want it to be low when sending money and high when I'm bringing money back. Why can't the money market just work with me on this :) Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 19:03:29 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:03:29 -0400 Subject: Linux Native Multitouch Support Message-ID: Heard about this through Geekbrief (http://www.geekbrief.tv/), there is now Linux native multitouch support available: http://www.lii-enac.fr/en/projects/shareit/linux.html Okay, so it isn't quite ready for "prime time" yet, but the demo looks great and talking about this sort of stuff beat moaning about what this or that proprietary software is doing... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 19:22:54 2009 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:22:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 Message-ID: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> I just came into possession of a Toshiba Tecra S10 laptop. I'd like to try and run a 64 bit version of Linux on it but it appears that the Intel 64 architecture on the T9600 may make this a challenge. Will a distro made for amd64 work? or am I stuck with running a 32 bit distro? Thanks, Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 19:44:57 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:44:57 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel-wtWqQT8woy8@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> Message-ID: <4A3A9939.9040300@utoronto.ca> Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > I just came into possession of a Toshiba Tecra S10 laptop. I'd like to try > and run a 64 bit version of Linux on it but it appears that the Intel 64 > architecture on the T9600 may make this a challenge. > > Will a distro made for amd64 work? or am I stuck with running a 32 bit > distro? Any x86_64 (or amd64 in Debian & derivatives land) will work with a core 2 duo. Don't worry about Intel's attempt at branding 64 bit as their own invention. (http://alioth.debian.org/docman/view.php/30192/21/debian-amd64-howto.html#id250846 http://lists.debian.org/debian-amd64/2003/08/msg00031.html) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 19:41:09 2009 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <4A3A9939.9040300-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3A9939.9040300@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <7907.192.168.20.1.1245354069.squirrel@nray.ca> Jamon, Thanks that link was very useful. Stephen On Thu, June 18, 2009 15:44, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > >> I just came into possession of a Toshiba Tecra S10 laptop. I'd like to >> try and run a 64 bit version of Linux on it but it appears that the >> Intel 64 >> architecture on the T9600 may make this a challenge. >> >> Will a distro made for amd64 work? or am I stuck with running a 32 bit >> distro? > > Any x86_64 (or amd64 in Debian & derivatives land) will work with a core > 2 duo. Don't worry about Intel's attempt at branding 64 bit as their own > invention. > (http://alioth.debian.org/docman/view.php/30192/21/debian-amd64-howto.htm > l#id250846 http://lists.debian.org/debian-amd64/2003/08/msg00031.html) > > > Jamon > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 19:52:52 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:52:52 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel-wtWqQT8woy8@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> Message-ID: <20090618195252.GI18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 03:22:54PM -0400, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > I just came into possession of a Toshiba Tecra S10 laptop. I'd like to try > and run a 64 bit version of Linux on it but it appears that the Intel 64 > architecture on the T9600 may make this a challenge. > > Will a distro made for amd64 work? or am I stuck with running a 32 bit > distro? amd64 will work on any x86 64bit chip. ia64 is NOT the same thing and is in fact itanium. Intel wanted x86 to end at 32bit and to take over the world with itanium as ia64, so to some extend they marketed them as the intel architecture 32 and 64bit (hence ia32 and ia64). Then AMD ruined their party by making the amd64 (x86_64) design. Debian based systems still call it amd64 since that's what it was first, and because the official name (x86_64) uses an illegal character as far as debian's architecture naming convention is concerned. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 20:35:24 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: New gov't Internet laws In-Reply-To: <289DDA37-92F9-44D7-A602-D7DE08A09577-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <289DDA37-92F9-44D7-A602-D7DE08A09577@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jun 2009, Aviss,Tyler wrote: > Just heard on the radio that the conservatives are trying to pass a law that > would allow police to request subscriber info from ISPs without a warrant, > and force retention of user data during "hidden" investigations. Facebook group for those interested: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=112667491092 -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 21:01:22 2009 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:01:22 -0400 Subject: insmod insertion error: -1 Device or resource busy Message-ID: <200906181701.23109.icanprogram@295.ca> Been trying to install a driver for a Diamond A-D card. insmod is giving the above error. What are the likely causes for such an error? base address conflict? IRQ conflict? other? Thanks in advance. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 21:11:54 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:11:54 -0400 Subject: insmod insertion error: -1 Device or resource busy In-Reply-To: <200906181701.23109.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200906181701.23109.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <20090618211154.GJ18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 05:01:22PM -0400, bob 295 wrote: > Been trying to install a driver for a Diamond A-D card. insmod is giving the > above error. What are the likely causes for such an error? base address > conflict? IRQ conflict? other? > > Thanks in advance. Another driver already using device, driver not compatible with kernel, device not present, device broken. dmesg sometimes gives you clues. Only looking at the sources can tell you what can make it return -EBUSY, or whatever it is returning. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 18 23:48:01 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:48:01 -0400 Subject: insmod insertion error: -1 Device or resource busy In-Reply-To: <200906181701.23109.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200906181701.23109.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <20090618194801.dea6247c.tleslie@tcn.net> more info may be present (and usually is) in dmesg or (message log). -tl On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:01:22 -0400 bob 295 wrote: > Been trying to install a driver for a Diamond A-D card. insmod is giving the > above error. What are the likely causes for such an error? base address > conflict? IRQ conflict? other? > > Thanks in advance. > > bob > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 00:16:34 2009 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:16:34 -0400 Subject: insmod insertion error: -1 Device or resource busy In-Reply-To: <20090618211154.GJ18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200906181701.23109.icanprogram@295.ca> <20090618211154.GJ18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200906182016.35752.icanprogram@295.ca> On Thursday 18 June 2009 05:11 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 05:01:22PM -0400, bob 295 wrote: > > Been trying to install a driver for a Diamond A-D card. insmod is > > giving the above error. What are the likely causes for such an error? > > base address conflict? IRQ conflict? other? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > Another driver already using device, driver not compatible with kernel, > device not present, device broken. > > dmesg sometimes gives you clues. > > Only looking at the sources can tell you what can make it return -EBUSY, > or whatever it is returning. I'm currently starting this module by hand. Looked through the source code for the module and found only one instance of EBUSY in around some ioctl stuff. However, it is preceded by a printk which I'm not seeing. The init_module function contains the following block with no surrounding printk: rc = register_chrdev(dscud_major, "dscud", &dscud_fops); if ( rc < 0 ) return rc; Could this generate the insmod insertion error I'm seeing? Next opportunity I'll add a printk for rc. I'm guessing this might give me EBUSY. If so what could be the source of such an EBUSY response from register_chrdev()? Thanks in advance again. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 00:36:20 2009 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:36:20 -0400 Subject: Creating an unformatted, unmounted LVM LV in kickstart In-Reply-To: <4A3A780A.7050400-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3A780A.7050400@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Interesting question - the kickstart docs say: "--noformat ? Use an existing logical volume and do not format it. " but - you wouldn't have an "existing" lv to use. Maybe a post-install task? On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am setting up a kickstart file for a CentOS 5.3/Xen install and want to > have it create a logical volume on a VG, but not format or mount it. The > reason is, I will give the partition to a specific virtual machine, so would > just has to unmount it and remove it's entry from fstab, which kind of > defeats having it pre-built with the OS install as I can just as easy create > it after the fact. > > I've got: > > ### LVM setup. > raid pv.20 --fstype "physical volume (LVM)" --level=RAID1 --device=md2 > raid.11 raid.21 > volgroup vg0 --pesize=32768 pv.20 > logvol / --fstype ext3 --name=lv0 --vgname=vg0 > --size=20000 > logvol /vm --fstype ext3 --name=lv1 --vgname=vg0 > --size=250000 > > Could I simply add: > > logvol --name=lv2 --vgname=vg0 --size=1 --grow > > Without the mount point or fstype being specified? > > Thanks for any help! Google is failing me... > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 00:57:34 2009 From: redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (dave jackson) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT- T400 vs 13-ton radar truck Message-ID: <774472.63334.qm@web31306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> G'day TLugers, -would Hp,Dell or Toshiba fare as well? cheers, dj http://blog.laptopmag.com/lenovo-t400s-nearly-survives-26000-pound-crushing The Lenovo T400s is Tougher Than it Looks One non-rugged Thinkpad vs. a 13-ton radar truck. In this video, the soon-to-market Lenovo Thinkpad T400s is run over by a 26,000-lb. radar truck and manages to keep its data secure. http://www.slashgear.com/lenovo-thinkpad-t400s-vs-26000lb-dow-truck-1747299/ __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 04:15:38 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 00:15:38 -0400 Subject: X11 client server, remote desktop, 10gbE, and weird FF shit Message-ID: <20090619001538.dcd0ba34.tleslie@tcn.net> Just read an article about 10gbe, and how it just fell huge in price (but it seems not yet in CND), supposedly 10gbe 2pt cards are 400$ i was waiting for this, i want to bond the pair, and throw it off to another system as a file server (i.e. 2GB/s, thats Bytes!) would be nice file system speed! have that box have 12GB ram for cache (or whatever is super cheap these days), and a bunch of raided high speed intel flash drives, and sustained transfers hopefully would be 2GB/s from the file server, which, as the article i read pointed out, the local drives will now become the bottle neck on systems, given one can SAN/NAS at 2GB/s. this got me thinking about also having a main desktop that is really tricked up for compiz-fusion, and multimedia, but then X-remoting into the box (at the other end of the bonded 2GB/s connection), it has been a while since a remote X'd, .. it was the norm back in the early 90's (at university), sun x-terms and such, but I rarely revisited that since then as a main way of operating, well until the thought of cheap 2GB/s networking! So I just tried a remote X to another box i have (even used ssh -X so the connection was encrypted, which I will bypass if i set this up as a usual environment, but given my tests, i have that enc. stage adding a bit of slow down), I am also connected at just 100mb ethernet. i did a xterm, then a image viewer, there is some complaining on the command line, but everything seemed fine, and not all that slow. I played a 1080i HD video (using ffplay) and it was not able to play at full speed (naturally), but it was decent, and with 2GB connection it would be as if served local (file on local disk, and locally pumping to video display). I however was massively confused by running firefox on the remote machine, it started firefox, but it was the firefox (binary) on my local machine, so naturally i figured i got kicked out of the box and was really running it on my local machine, nope, .. i run firefox on the remote machine (over X), and it starts my local one!! i killed the local instance of the FF, and re-tried, and it then brought up the FF running from the remote (but displaying local) as expected. this is weird!! i guess the WM on the local somehow intercepts, and .... ?? anyone know? anyways, what i would like feed back on is .... does anyone have any knowledge about stuff that doesn't work well over a x-remote session? i can probably figure out the firefox issue ... but i am wondering if anyone has experience with some apps that just will not work, perhaps because they just need to have local access to the video, (that reminds me, i should try and play "world of goo" over it), or they get tricked up some how on the X environment. I thought doing some 1080i HD, and running a bunch of video players, and even multimedia through the browser would some how screw up, but all seemed to work, but again some warnings, errors on the command line, but didn't seem to effect the operation. This set up appeals to me because I am always installing the latest greatest linux distro, openSuse, sidux, ubuntu, depending on the release dates, (as well as rolling updates), but what i really would like to do, is have a server with a bunch of VM's running, and one is say a linux VM for email, say SLED with the latest evolution and ability to get into the corp email server. another for say the most recent OpenOffice, and other business apps. one for maybe my win XP vmware setup, another is perhaps a VMWARE OSX10.5 install (for x-platform code dev testing) and cubase, all these x-remoting to the main desktop client @ 2GB/s this way i can selectively update the OS's, as i need to, and not all at once, then test out 10 different main apps i need to run, and have to put up with potential issues. also i can backup the whole VM (convenient for backups, and back outs), and also have a decent set up to trial, and stage other linux distros. So any feed back on failed X-remote stories would be valuable. Before I drop coin on a 10gbE set up. (all though i eventually will for the NAS/SAN ability, but would do it sooner, if it rocks as a x server environment). Does a popularity/cheapness of 10gbE sort of kill the whole "wireless" thing, and get us all back to wired in the home, with cable drops around the house? no 20000mbs wireless on the horizon i am guessing? or would that just be a microwave oven? :) oh , and assuming the x server env. is viable for most anything, there is just one nasty problem that will remain, copy/cut/paste across all the systems????, i wonder what there is out there to allow that? some common network clipboard (registered across a whole bunch of systems?), solves it, if it exists, but still a bit clunky. -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 14:06:48 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:06:48 -0400 Subject: insmod insertion error: -1 Device or resource busy In-Reply-To: <200906182016.35752.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200906181701.23109.icanprogram@295.ca> <20090618211154.GJ18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200906182016.35752.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <20090619140648.GK18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 08:16:34PM -0400, bob 295 wrote: > Looked through the source code for the module and found only one instance of > EBUSY in around some ioctl stuff. However, it is preceded by a printk > which I'm not seeing. > > The init_module function contains the following block with no surrounding > printk: > > rc = register_chrdev(dscud_major, "dscud", &dscud_fops); > if ( rc < 0 ) > return rc; > > Could this generate the insmod insertion error I'm seeing? Next opportunity > I'll add a printk for rc. I'm guessing this might give me EBUSY. If so > what could be the source of such an EBUSY response from register_chrdev()? > > Thanks in advance again. Wall whatever dscud_major is, if another driver is already using that major number, then you will probably get that error. So look up what that major should be, and check /proc/devices to see if anything is using that major. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 14:34:17 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:34:17 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel-wtWqQT8woy8@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> Message-ID: <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > I just came into possession of a Toshiba Tecra S10 laptop. I'd like to try > and run a 64 bit version of Linux on it but it appears that the Intel 64 > architecture on the T9600 may make this a challenge. > > Will a distro made for amd64 work? or am I stuck with running a 32 bit > distro? > > Unless it's an Itanium CPU, it will work fine. The Intel X86-64 CPU borrowed the AMD instruction set. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 14:48:21 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:48:21 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <4A3BA1E9.9060001-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> James Knott wrote: > Stephen W. Clarke wrote: >> I just came into possession of a Toshiba Tecra S10 laptop. I'd like to try >> and run a 64 bit version of Linux on it but it appears that the Intel 64 >> architecture on the T9600 may make this a challenge. >> >> Will a distro made for amd64 work? or am I stuck with running a 32 bit >> distro? >> >> > > Unless it's an Itanium CPU, it will work fine. The Intel X86-64 CPU > borrowed the AMD instruction set. we'd all be better of pretending like itanium never happened. I'd hazard a guess that no more than a handful of people on this list have used one. Maybe that's naive and it needed to happen to spur development of the x86-64 instruction set, I dunno. But I'm sure that all IA-64 has caused anyone is headache, heartache, a hole in their wallet, and no small amount of confusion when it comes to x86_64/amd64. The question comes up a few times a day in various distros' irc channels. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 15:16:09 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:16:09 -0700 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <4A3BA535.2020505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906190816u43fee60akbe22fd7c1524503e@mail.gmail.com> Maybe they could just rename any IA-64 to "Itanium" and slowly phase out the old naming scheme. It would probably solve a lot of confusion, unless there are other things that can use IA-64? On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> >> Stephen W. Clarke wrote: >>> >>> I just came into possession of a Toshiba Tecra S10 laptop. I'd like to >>> try >>> and run a 64 bit version of Linux on it but it appears that the Intel 64 >>> architecture on the T9600 may make this a challenge. >>> >>> Will a distro made for amd64 work? or am I stuck with running a 32 bit >>> distro? >>> >>> >> >> Unless it's an Itanium CPU, it will work fine. ?The Intel X86-64 CPU >> borrowed the AMD instruction set. > > we'd all be better of pretending like itanium never happened. I'd hazard a > guess that no more than a handful of people on this list have used one. > Maybe that's naive and it needed to happen to spur development of the x86-64 > instruction set, I dunno. > > But I'm sure that all IA-64 has caused anyone is headache, heartache, a hole > in their wallet, and no small amount of confusion when it comes to > x86_64/amd64. The question comes up a few times a day in various distros' > irc channels. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 16:12:12 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:12:12 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <4A3BA535.2020505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20090619161212.GL18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:48:21AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > we'd all be better of pretending like itanium never happened. I'd hazard > a guess that no more than a handful of people on this list have used > one. Maybe that's naive and it needed to happen to spur development of > the x86-64 instruction set, I dunno. Well it's hard to pretend the alpha, high end mips, and probably a few others weren't exterminated by that piece of junk. SGI might have screwed up and died even without the itanium, but it sure didn't help. > But I'm sure that all IA-64 has caused anyone is headache, heartache, a > hole in their wallet, and no small amount of confusion when it comes to > x86_64/amd64. The question comes up a few times a day in various > distros' irc channels. Yeah, designing a CPU based on assumptions about the future of compiler development was not intel's brightest move. I think almost all the assumptions they used turned out to be wrong (at least so far). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 16:13:19 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:13:19 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906190816u43fee60akbe22fd7c1524503e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> <3a97ef0906190816u43fee60akbe22fd7c1524503e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090619161319.GM18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 08:16:09AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Maybe they could just rename any IA-64 to "Itanium" and slowly phase > out the old naming scheme. > > It would probably solve a lot of confusion, unless there are other > things that can use IA-64? The internet never forgets. The itanium architecture is IA64, and that is never changing. We are stuck with the mess intel's marketing people made. Intel calling it em64t when copying amd64 sure didn't help things. What a stupid name. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 16:21:14 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:21:14 -0400 Subject: X11 client server, remote desktop, 10gbE, and weird FF shit In-Reply-To: <20090619001538.dcd0ba34.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20090619001538.dcd0ba34.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20090619162114.GN18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 12:15:38AM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > Just read an article about 10gbe, and how it just fell huge in price (but it seems not yet in CND), > supposedly 10gbe 2pt cards are 400$ > > i was waiting for this, i want to bond the pair, and throw it off to another system as a file server > (i.e. 2GB/s, thats Bytes!) would be nice file system speed! have that box have 12GB ram for cache (or whatever is super cheap these days), > and a bunch of raided high speed intel flash drives, and sustained transfers hopefully would be 2GB/s from the file server, > which, as the article i read pointed out, the local drives will now become the bottle neck on systems, given one can SAN/NAS at 2GB/s. I think the system bus could become a bottle neck too. How many lanes wide does your PCIe bus have to be to handle that kind of bandwidth? One 10Gbit port is over 3 times the throughput of a single SATA II port, so it starts to add up. What are those two port cards? PCIe x8 or something? > this got me thinking about also having a main desktop that is really tricked up for compiz-fusion, and multimedia, > but then X-remoting into the box (at the other end of the bonded 2GB/s connection), > > it has been a while since a remote X'd, .. it was the norm back in the early 90's (at university), sun x-terms and such, > but I rarely revisited that since then as a main way of operating, well until the thought of cheap 2GB/s networking! > > So I just tried a remote X to another box i have (even used ssh -X so the connection was encrypted, which I will bypass > if i set this up as a usual environment, but given my tests, i have that enc. stage adding a bit of slow down), > I am also connected at just 100mb ethernet. > i did a xterm, then a image viewer, there is some complaining on the command line, but everything seemed fine, > and not all that slow. > I played a 1080i HD video (using ffplay) and it was not able to play at full speed (naturally), but it was decent, > and with 2GB connection it would be as if served local (file on local disk, and locally pumping to video display). Even 1Gbit ethernet will handle the speed of a modern high end disk, although just barely. Plenty for any video file you would ever transfer (unless doing remote X and trying to transfer the decoded video, which is just a silly thing to do given you don't get the benefit of using the video card to assist in the decoding I suspect, unless XvMC works remotely too). > I however was massively confused by running firefox on the remote machine, > it started firefox, but it was the firefox (binary) on my local machine, > so naturally i figured i got kicked out of the box and was really running it on my local machine, > nope, .. i run firefox on the remote machine (over X), and it starts my local one!! > i killed the local instance of the FF, and re-tried, and it then brought up the FF running from the remote (but displaying local) as expected. > this is weird!! i guess the WM on the local somehow intercepts, and .... ?? anyone know? I guess firefox noticed there was a session already in the current X session, and sent a 'load page' command to it rather than staring a new binary. I believe there is a command line option to override that behaviour, but I can't remember what it would be. > anyways, what i would like feed back on is .... > does anyone have any knowledge about stuff that doesn't work well over a x-remote session? > i can probably figure out the firefox issue ... but i am wondering if anyone has experience with > some apps that just will not work, perhaps because they just need to have local access to the video, > (that reminds me, i should try and play "world of goo" over it), > or they get tricked up some how on the X environment. I thought doing some 1080i HD, and running a bunch of video players, > and even multimedia through the browser would some how screw up, but all seemed to work, but again some warnings, errors > on the command line, but didn't seem to effect the operation. > > This set up appeals to me because I am always installing the latest greatest linux distro, > openSuse, sidux, ubuntu, depending on the release dates, (as well as rolling updates), > but what i really would like to do, is have a server with a bunch of VM's running, > and one is say a linux VM for email, say SLED with the latest evolution and ability to get into the corp email server. > another for say the most recent OpenOffice, and other business apps. > one for maybe my win XP vmware setup, > another is perhaps a VMWARE OSX10.5 install (for x-platform code dev testing) and cubase, > all these x-remoting to the main desktop client @ 2GB/s > > this way i can selectively update the OS's, as i need to, and not all at once, then test out 10 different main apps i need to run, > and have to put up with potential issues. also i can backup the whole VM (convenient for backups, and back outs), and also have a decent > set up to trial, and stage other linux distros. > > So any feed back on failed X-remote stories would be valuable. Before I drop coin on a 10gbE set up. > (all though i eventually will for the NAS/SAN ability, but would do it sooner, if it rocks as a x server environment). > > Does a popularity/cheapness of 10gbE sort of kill the whole "wireless" thing, and get us all back to wired in the home, > with cable drops around the house? no 20000mbs wireless on the horizon i am guessing? or would that just be a microwave oven? :) 100Mbit ethernet makes wireless look like a joke. Who needs 10Gbit for that? > oh , and assuming the x server env. is viable for most anything, there is just one nasty problem that will remain, > copy/cut/paste across all the systems????, i wonder what there is out there to allow that? some common network clipboard (registered > across a whole bunch of systems?), solves it, if it exists, but still a bit clunky. X has a clipboard, so that probably already works for a lot of stuff. At least for text. Your email client seems to have a problem with wrapping at 80 columns. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 16:27:07 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:27:07 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <4A3BA535.2020505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > But I'm sure that all IA-64 has caused anyone is headache, heartache, a hole > in their wallet, and no small amount of confusion when it comes to > x86_64/amd64. The question comes up a few times a day in various distros' > irc channels. I think this isn't even *remotely* the important heartache that fell from IA-64. The *important* heartaches relate to the effective "deaths" of all the other 64 bit architectures, and, related, the UNIX vendors. - HP stopped updating PA-RISC, throwing their support for ongoing hardware enhancement directly into the "IA-64 pit" - Alpha and MIPS are fairly much curiosities - The only remaining 64 bit architectures that marginally remain are ... - PowerPC, which seems to be getting more mainframe-specific over time - SPARC, where it is unclear what Oracle will do with it All of the above got *severely* "FUDded" by Gartner Group noises to the effect that "IA-64 will replace *everything!!!" back in the late '90s, and essentially nobody was prepared to commit anything to the expectation that any of the above would survive the voyage of the Itanic. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Mitch Hedberg - "I drank some boiling water because I wanted to whistle." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mitch_hedberg.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 16:10:44 2009 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:10:44 -0400 Subject: insmod insertion error: -1 Device or resource busy In-Reply-To: <20090619140648.GK18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200906181701.23109.icanprogram@295.ca> <200906182016.35752.icanprogram@295.ca> <20090619140648.GK18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200906191210.45525.icanprogram@295.ca> On Friday 19 June 2009 10:06 am, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 08:16:34PM -0400, bob 295 wrote: > > Looked through the source code for the module and found only one instance > > of EBUSY in around some ioctl stuff. However, it is preceded by a > > printk which I'm not seeing. > > > > The init_module function contains the following block with no surrounding > > printk: > > > > rc = register_chrdev(dscud_major, "dscud", &dscud_fops); > > if ( rc < 0 ) > > return rc; > > > > Could this generate the insmod insertion error I'm seeing? Next > > opportunity I'll add a printk for rc. I'm guessing this might give me > > EBUSY. If so what could be the source of such an EBUSY response from > > register_chrdev()? > > > > Thanks in advance again. > > Wall whatever dscud_major is, if another driver is already using that > major number, then you will probably get that error. > > So look up what that major should be, and check /proc/devices to see if > anything is using that major. BINGO. Thanks. Onward and upward to try and make the A-D card dance now ... bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 16:37:04 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:37:04 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20090619163703.GO18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 12:27:07PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Jamon > Camisso wrote: > > But I'm sure that all IA-64 has caused anyone is headache, heartache, a hole > > in their wallet, and no small amount of confusion when it comes to > > x86_64/amd64. The question comes up a few times a day in various distros' > > irc channels. > > I think this isn't even *remotely* the important heartache that fell from IA-64. > > The *important* heartaches relate to the effective "deaths" of all the > other 64 bit architectures, and, related, the UNIX vendors. > > - HP stopped updating PA-RISC, throwing their support for ongoing > hardware enhancement directly into the "IA-64 pit" > > - Alpha and MIPS are fairly much curiosities > > - The only remaining 64 bit architectures that marginally remain are ... > > - PowerPC, which seems to be getting more mainframe-specific over time Actually powerpc is huge in embedded, gaming, and supercomputers, in addition to mainframes. > - SPARC, where it is unclear what Oracle will do with it Now that, who knows. :) > All of the above got *severely* "FUDded" by Gartner Group noises to > the effect that "IA-64 will replace *everything!!!" back in the late > '90s, and essentially nobody was prepared to commit anything to the > expectation that any of the above would survive the voyage of the > Itanic. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 16:56:03 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:56:03 -0700 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <20090619163703.GO18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> <20090619163703.GO18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906190956r36c2fa72qcc3d500db812006@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 12:27:07PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: >> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Jamon >> Camisso wrote: >> > But I'm sure that all IA-64 has caused anyone is headache, heartache, a hole >> > in their wallet, and no small amount of confusion when it comes to >> > x86_64/amd64. The question comes up a few times a day in various distros' >> > irc channels. >> >> I think this isn't even *remotely* the important heartache that fell from IA-64. >> >> The *important* heartaches relate to the effective "deaths" of all the >> other 64 bit architectures, and, related, the UNIX vendors. >> >> - HP stopped updating PA-RISC, throwing their support for ongoing >> hardware enhancement directly into the "IA-64 pit" >> >> - Alpha and MIPS are fairly much curiosities >> >> - The only remaining 64 bit architectures that marginally remain are ... >> >> - PowerPC, which seems to be getting more mainframe-specific over time > > Actually powerpc is huge in embedded, gaming, and supercomputers, in > addition to mainframes. > I tend to see powerPC in most cases where PPW (Processing Power per WATT) seems to be a bigger concern. Definitely a big issue on any battery-powered embedded device, and often in gaming computers or large machines where heat output (and/or noisy fans) becomes a considerable factor. >> - SPARC, where it is unclear what Oracle will do with it > > Now that, who knows. :) > >> All of the above got *severely* "FUDded" by Gartner Group noises to >> the effect that "IA-64 will replace *everything!!!" back in the late >> '90s, and essentially nobody was prepared to commit anything to the >> expectation that any of the above would survive the voyage of the >> Itanic. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 16:58:35 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:58:35 -0700 Subject: Creating an unformatted, unmounted LVM LV in kickstart In-Reply-To: References: <4A3A780A.7050400@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906190958p17f8fc0ci339f9c38d555609f@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 5:36 PM, John Miles wrote: > Interesting question - the kickstart docs say: > "--noformat ? Use an existing logical volume and do not format it. " > but - you wouldn't have an "existing" lv to use. > Maybe a post-install task? > You might if you were reinstalling over an existing system, orhad disks from an existing system being used alongside the current? You definitely could have reasons you do not want to format over it in that case too. > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> ?I am setting up a kickstart file for a CentOS 5.3/Xen install and want to >> have it create a logical volume on a VG, but not format or mount it. The >> reason is, I will give the partition to a specific virtual machine, so would >> just has to unmount it and remove it's entry from fstab, which kind of >> defeats having it pre-built with the OS install as I can just as easy create >> it after the fact. >> >> ?I've got: >> >> ### LVM setup. >> raid pv.20 --fstype "physical volume (LVM)" --level=RAID1 --device=md2 >> raid.11 raid.21 >> volgroup ? ? ? ?vg0 ? ? --pesize=32768 pv.20 >> logvol ? ? ? ? ?/ ? ? ? --fstype ext3 ? --name=lv0 --vgname=vg0 >> --size=20000 >> logvol ? ? ? ? ?/vm ? ? --fstype ext3 ? --name=lv1 --vgname=vg0 >> --size=250000 >> >> ?Could I simply add: >> >> logvol --name=lv2 --vgname=vg0 --size=1 --grow >> >> ?Without the mount point or fstype being specified? >> >> ?Thanks for any help! Google is failing me... >> >> Madi >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 18:01:33 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:01:33 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906190956r36c2fa72qcc3d500db812006-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> <20090619163703.GO18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0906190956r36c2fa72qcc3d500db812006@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090619180133.GP18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 09:56:03AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I tend to see powerPC in most cases where PPW (Processing Power per > WATT) seems to be a bigger concern. Definitely a big issue on any > battery-powered embedded device, and often in gaming computers or > large machines where heat output (and/or noisy fans) becomes a > considerable factor. Well IBM has the power6 series as in the 575 and 595, which are seriously powerful boxes. They also make clusters of those. For the larger clusters they often use power4 chips instead, since they use a lot less power (but also run slower), but packing them in very densely works out well. Then again they also have the cell (especially the new cell variant with much higher floating point performance), which has been used in some clusters by mixing blades with opterons and blades with 2nd gen cell chips. The cell is of course powerpc with 8 coprocessors for doing the real work on streaming capable jobs. In the embedded market freescale has lots of nice power efficent chips with huge numbers of I/O ports, for doing ethernet (often multiple 1gbit ethernet ports), ATM, T1/E1, T3/E3, OC3, etc. For gaming the xbox360 has a 3 core IBM design at 3.2GHz, while the PS3 of course has the Cell (1st gen) (the 3 cores in the xbox360 are related but a bit more flexible than the powerpc core in the cell that controls the SPE coprocessors), and of course then the wii has yet another IBM design, although at lower cost and power than the other two. Even the gamecube had an IBM powerpc chip in it. A lot of engine control units use ibm and freescale powerpc chips as well. The IBM mainframes these days are using power6 derived designs as well, and that's not necesarily for power efficiency reasons. power6 chips are anything but. The powerpc seems to range from the low end power efficient all the way to the huge superfast, but not efficient at all range. The powerpc is a very nice design. It is very very good at running emulation and translation code, which is part of why apple could move from 68k to powerpc and manage to emulate the 68k sufficiently fast to still be an upgrade over the 68k machines. Similarly the xbox360 can emulate the xbox's pentium3 based cpu without major problems at all. x86 on the other hand is terrible at emulation of other instruction sets in general. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 18:02:35 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:02:35 -0400 Subject: Creating an unformatted, unmounted LVM LV in kickstart In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906190958p17f8fc0ci339f9c38d555609f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3A780A.7050400@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0906190958p17f8fc0ci339f9c38d555609f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090619180235.GQ18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 09:58:35AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > You might if you were reinstalling over an existing system, orhad > disks from an existing system being used alongside the current? You > definitely could have reasons you do not want to format over it in > that case too. But if you are just upgrading, why would you even be shutting down the normal system? Who reinstalls over an existing system anymore? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 18:13:10 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906190956r36c2fa72qcc3d500db812006-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> <20090619163703.GO18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0906190956r36c2fa72qcc3d500db812006@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Tyler Aviss | I tend to see powerPC in most cases where PPW (Processing Power per | WATT) seems to be a bigger concern. Definitely a big issue on any | battery-powered embedded device, and often in gaming computers or | large machines where heat output (and/or noisy fans) becomes a | considerable factor. My impression has been that there is some kind of stratification in the low powered world. I welcome correction. I'm not really plugged into this world. Atom for x86 with designs that match what Intel wants you to do. Note: you need a license to use the Atom and it restricts what you can do! Via for x86 with more design freedom, longer term. AMD Geode for x86: older designs (roadmap has ended). Slower than others but also lower power consumption. OLPC XO uses it but the future is cloudy. PowerPC for lots of CPU power. Good for games apparently, but only if plugged into a wall socket. Dominates automotive, I hear. It also is important in supercomputers, probably for PPW reasons. SPARC for some things. For example, in some Scientific Atlanta cable set-top boxes (like one I have from Rogers). My impression is that this market is slipping away. BlackFin? SuperH? The rest are used mostly in SoC (System on chip) systems. That means that the processor is integrated with other stuff on-chip. These are often low power in both sense. ARM (I see this in smartphones, PDAs, home routers, for example; I even have one on an old 3COM PCI network card that I picked up) MIPS (32-bit, I think) (some early PDAs -- MS stopped supporting it in WinCE; some routers, I think) ATMEL AVR, AVR32 PIC lots of misc other ancient things (80xx, 63xx, ...) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 18:35:56 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:35:56 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> <20090619163703.GO18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0906190956r36c2fa72qcc3d500db812006@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090619183555.GR18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 02:13:10PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > My impression has been that there is some kind of stratification in > the low powered world. I welcome correction. I'm not really plugged > into this world. > > Atom for x86 with designs that match what Intel wants you to do. > Note: you need a license to use the Atom and it restricts what you can > do! > > Via for x86 with more design freedom, longer term. > > AMD Geode for x86: older designs (roadmap has ended). Slower than > others but also lower power consumption. OLPC XO uses it but the > future is cloudy. The athlon NX isn't too bad (Athlon XP essentially), and there is an embedded opteron line too. > PowerPC for lots of CPU power. Good for games apparently, but only if > plugged into a wall socket. Dominates automotive, I hear. It also is > important in supercomputers, probably for PPW reasons. Freescale makes lots of powerpcs that use much less power than the atom. > SPARC for some things. For example, in some Scientific Atlanta cable > set-top boxes (like one I have from Rogers). My impression is that > this market is slipping away. I suspect that's a long long time ago. Sparc used to have use in printers and other things as an embedded controller. I haven't seen that for years though. The last time I saw/used one was inside a kodak dyesub printer which would be well over 10 years old these days. > BlackFin? > > SuperH? Certainly some use in embedded designs. Pretty decent linux support too. The SuperH used to have some use in game consoles, but that's a while ago now. > The rest are used mostly in SoC (System on chip) systems. That means > that the processor is integrated with other stuff on-chip. These are > often low power in both sense. > > ARM (I see this in smartphones, PDAs, home routers, for example; I > even have one on an old 3COM PCI network card that I picked up) > > MIPS (32-bit, I think) (some early PDAs -- MS stopped supporting it in > WinCE; some routers, I think) Most wireless routers are MIPS these days, as are china's own cpu (loongson) these days (which make anything intel makes look like a joke when it comes to performance per watt). > ATMEL AVR, AVR32 > > PIC > > lots of misc other ancient things (80xx, 63xx, ...) Some of those are pretty old and small, although still in use in some cases. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 18:39:18 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <4A3BA535.2020505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: | From: Jamon Camisso | James Knott wrote: | > Unless it's an Itanium CPU, it will work fine. The Intel X86-64 CPU | > borrowed the AMD instruction set. Right. I think that this was a license agreement, so "borrowed" is misleading in that it appears to be a euphamism for unauthorized copying. My understanding is that AMD offers a no-cost license for this architecture. This was likely a precondition for success. Probably a Very Good Thing for consumers (one intent of the IA-64 process was to capture the architecture as Intellectual Property of Intel (and possibly HP), unlike the x86 which kind of got away from them). | we'd all be better of pretending like itanium never happened. I'd hazard a | guess that no more than a handful of people on this list have used one. Maybe | that's naive and it needed to happen to spur development of the x86-64 | instruction set, I dunno. | | But I'm sure that all IA-64 has caused anyone is headache, heartache, a hole | in their wallet, I have an Itanium. I got it recently in a weak moment. Free, until you factor in the hydro bill. Also noisy (as are most rack mount servers). I like architectural diversity. It can be used to help C programmers (like me) discover where they've written unportable code. ("all the world's a VAX" disease). Unfortunately the x86-64 ABI panders to this disease (evidence: sizeof(int) == 4!). | and no small amount of confusion when it comes to | x86_64/amd64. The question comes up a few times a day in various distros' irc | channels. I blame Debian for retaining the originally-reasonable name AMD64. All sensible people agree that the architecture name is x86-64 (or x86_64 if "-" causes lexical problems). Apparently AMD now calls it AMD64 and Intel now calls it Intel 64); silly children. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 18:43:19 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:43:19 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <20090619183555.GR18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> <20090619163703.GO18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0906190956r36c2fa72qcc3d500db812006@mail.gmail.com> <20090619183555.GR18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A3BDC47.6040908@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 02:13:10PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> lots of misc other ancient things (80xx, 63xx, ...) >> > > Some of those are pretty old and small, although still in use in some > cases. > > One thing to bear in mind, is that many of those ancient CPUs live on in logic libraries. This lets a chip maker select the best CPU for the task, add in some I/O & memory, to produce the optimum chip for an embedded task. No need for a 32 or 64 bit CPU, when 4 or 8 bits will do. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 19:08:44 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:08:44 -0400 Subject: Creating an unformatted, unmounted LVM LV in kickstart In-Reply-To: References: <4A3A780A.7050400@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4A3BE23C.2090907@alteeve.com> John Miles wrote: > Interesting question - the kickstart docs say: > "|--noformat| ? Use an existing logical volume and do not format it. " > but - you wouldn't have an "existing" lv to use. > Maybe a post-install task? In my case, I want a raw LVM LV for a Xen virtual machine that will be setup on it. The exercise here is that I am trying to automate, script and document all the steps... with the automating and scripting being the highest priority. The goal is that, should the office be razed with yours truly in it, the owner can pick up a new server, the backups and my custom install DVD with an install script and follow the simplest directions possible to end with a ready-to-go server for his business. So yes, I can do it post-install, but it's one more step he would have to worry about which I don't like. This shouldn't be too hard, I would think, so I would *much* prefer to set it up with the OS. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 19:16:10 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:16:10 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20090619191609.GS18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 02:39:18PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I have an Itanium. I got it recently in a weak moment. Free, until > you factor in the hydro bill. Also noisy (as are most rack mount > servers). > > I like architectural diversity. It can be used to help C programmers > (like me) discover where they've written unportable code. ("all the > world's a VAX" disease). Unfortunately the x86-64 ABI panders to this > disease (evidence: sizeof(int) == 4!). How is that a problem? As long as size(long) == 8 on a 64bit machine, then you should be happy. Windows unfortunately does NOT do that. They have a special long type for storing pointer size things on 64bt systems. After all, short int and int just have to be at least 16bit, and long has to be at least 32bit. long long has to be at least 64bit if it is even supported on a system. Linux seems to have decided to make it: short is 16bit int is 32bit long is equal in size to pointers (so 32 or 64bit depending on cpu) long long is 64bit > I blame Debian for retaining the originally-reasonable name AMD64. > All sensible people agree that the architecture name is x86-64 (or > x86_64 if "-" causes lexical problems). Apparently AMD now calls it > AMD64 and Intel now calls it Intel 64); silly children. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64 underscore is debian's field seperator, and I think - might have special meaning too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 19:36:40 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:36:40 -0400 Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? Message-ID: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> Hello, I use pal for my calendaring now and I'd like my xterms to open up with the output from pal. However, if I add it to .bashrc, then when I try to copy things to/fro remotely scp fails because there is output generated by my .bashrc. So what I'd like to do is detect if the session is an xterm/console, or through interactive ssh.. and output the calendar in these cases but not in cases where I scp or execute a command remotely. Can I do this? If so, how? Thanks in advance, Marc -- Any code of your own that you haven't looked at for six or more months might as well have been written by someone else. -- Eagleson's law -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 19:54:33 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:54:33 -0400 Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> Message-ID: <32f6a8880906191254g4764b290p8dc8af69b2fcb459@mail.gmail.com> I'm wondering if you can use the $DISPLAY variable... If the $DISPLAY variable is empty your in a shell.. if the $DISPLAY variable has :0 or 0:0.1 you know you can open an xterminal window. On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Hello, > > I use pal for my calendaring now and I'd like my xterms to open up with > the output from pal. However, if I add it to .bashrc, then when I try > to copy things to/fro remotely scp fails because there is output > generated by my .bashrc. > > So what I'd like to do is detect if the session is an xterm/console, or > through interactive ssh.. and output the calendar in these cases but > not in cases where I scp or execute a command remotely. > > Can I do this? If so, how? > > Thanks in advance, > Marc > > -- > Any code of your own that you haven't looked at for six or more months > might as well have been written by someone else. > ?-- Eagleson's law > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 20:01:00 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:01:00 -0400 Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880906191254g4764b290p8dc8af69b2fcb459-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> <32f6a8880906191254g4764b290p8dc8af69b2fcb459@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090619160100.65f8cf21@gravid> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:54:33 -0400 Dave Germiquet wrote: > I'm wondering if you can use the $DISPLAY variable... > > If the $DISPLAY variable is empty your in a shell.. if the $DISPLAY > variable has :0 or 0:0.1 you know you can open an xterminal window. > Yeah so far that's my best solution, but I would like for pal to be executed when I login remotely through ssh as well (just not when I use scp or execute remote commands via ssh). Marc -- Any code of your own that you haven't looked at for six or more months might as well have been written by someone else. -- Eagleson's law -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 20:04:21 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:04:21 -0400 Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <20090619160100.65f8cf21@gravid> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> <32f6a8880906191254g4764b290p8dc8af69b2fcb459@mail.gmail.com> <20090619160100.65f8cf21@gravid> Message-ID: <32f6a8880906191304j331227ecg6a8c1eaac26dafb8@mail.gmail.com> If you log in using the -X option of ssh, wouldn't that still give you a $DISPLAY. On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:54:33 -0400 > Dave Germiquet wrote: > >> I'm wondering if you can use the $DISPLAY variable... >> >> If the $DISPLAY variable is empty your in a shell.. if the $DISPLAY >> variable has :0 or 0:0.1 you know you can open an xterminal window. >> > > Yeah so far that's my best solution, but I would like for pal to be > executed when I login remotely through ssh as well (just not when I use > scp or execute remote commands via ssh). > > Marc > > -- > Any code of your own that you haven't looked at for six or more months > might as well have been written by someone else. > ?-- Eagleson's law > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 20:14:09 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:14:09 -0400 Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880906191304j331227ecg6a8c1eaac26dafb8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> <32f6a8880906191254g4764b290p8dc8af69b2fcb459@mail.gmail.com> <20090619160100.65f8cf21@gravid> <32f6a8880906191304j331227ecg6a8c1eaac26dafb8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090619161409.26e22393@gravid> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:04:21 -0400 Dave Germiquet wrote: > If you log in using the -X option of ssh, wouldn't that still give you > a $DISPLAY. > Maybe, but I don't always login with -X.. in fact most times I don't. I'm sure there is a clean/nice way to do this; I'll try a Unix shell forum and post anything useful that comes of it. Marc -- Any code of your own that you haven't looked at for six or more months might as well have been written by someone else. -- Eagleson's law -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 20:17:29 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:17:29 -0700 Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> Message-ID: <7ac602420906191317y7d6444fbkb98786841ba9dc73@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Can I do this? If so, how? There are several start-up scripts that Bash typically sources, I think. One of them is for interactive shells, the other not. You just need to find the right file to put your change into and I'm guessing .bashrc is the wrong one. Someone more knowledgeable than me could tell you the name of the file for sure, but it might be .bash_profile. You might find it yourself in man bash, but that's a lot of reading. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 20:31:15 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Jun 2009, Marc Lanctot wrote: > > I use pal for my calendaring now and I'd like my xterms to open up with > the output from pal. However, if I add it to .bashrc, then when I try > to copy things to/fro remotely scp fails because there is output > generated by my .bashrc. > > So what I'd like to do is detect if the session is an xterm/console, or > through interactive ssh.. and output the calendar in these cases but > not in cases where I scp or execute a command remotely. > > Can I do this? If so, how? if [ -t 0 ] ## if connected to a terminal then : ... fi -- Chris F.A. Johnson =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 20:34:06 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:34:06 -0400 Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <7ac602420906191317y7d6444fbkb98786841ba9dc73-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> <7ac602420906191317y7d6444fbkb98786841ba9dc73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090619163406.27ddce36@gravid> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:17:29 -0700 Ian Petersen wrote: > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Marc Lanctot > wrote: > > Can I do this? If so, how? > > There are several start-up scripts that Bash typically sources, I > think. One of them is for interactive shells, the other not. You > just need to find the right file to put your change into and I'm > guessing .bashrc is the wrong one. Someone more knowledgeable than me > could tell you the name of the file for sure, but it might be > .bash_profile. You might find it yourself in man bash, but that's a > lot of reading. Yeah, that's what I expected. Turns out it wasn't so bad in the end ;) Here's the solution. $- contains 'i' if the shell is interactive (which it's not when invoked through scp or ssh), so this does it: INTERACTIVE=`echo $- | grep i` if [ -n "$INTERACTIVE" ] then # interactive-only commands fi Marc -- Any code of your own that you haven't looked at for six or more months might as well have been written by someone else. -- Eagleson's law -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 21:45:01 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <20090619191609.GS18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> <20090619191609.GS18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 02:39:18PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > Unfortunately the x86-64 ABI panders to this | > disease (evidence: sizeof(int) == 4!). | | How is that a problem? As long as size(long) == 8 on a 64bit machine, | then you should be happy. Windows unfortunately does NOT do that. | They have a special long type for storing pointer size things on 64bt | systems. K&R, first edition, describes int as: an integer, typically reflecting the natural size of integers on the host machine Furthermore, in describing short and long, it says: The intent is that short and long should provide different lengths of integers where practical; in will normally reflect the most ``natural'' size for a particular machine. To me, on a machine that I think of as 64-bit, that would be 64 bits. To be honest, I think that the structure of integral types in C are a mess. One fix-up adopted by the C Committee looks ugly too: adding types with explicit widths in bits. Pascal's subranges are more natural. You get to specify the range in terms that are relevant to your problem. Intermediate expressions should be as-if calculated in infinite width. If a programmer knows that an intermediate expression won't overflow a narrower type, and the compiler cannot know that, the programmer can add a cast to help the compiler. The default is then correct, if possibly inefficient, instead of efficient, if possibly incorrect. Examples of the as-if rule in practice: int i, j, k; long m, n; m = i + j; Now, if i + j does not fit in int, but does fit long, overflow occurs. With my rule, the correct result will be calculated. i = i + j; No difference: since the result is stored in int, the calculation can be done in int without loss. i = i + j + 1; This case is interesting because, for certain values of i and j, i + j could overflow int and yet have i + j + 1 still representable as int. Most current hardware silently ignores overflow (essentially copying the PDP-11). I've found this to be unfortunate: overflow is generally a sign of a bug. It is legal for a C implementation to consider this an error. With existing C, the program could fail due to overflow whereas my rule would make this correct. The cost is that, under my rules, on a machine with trapping overflow, the calculation must be done with wider intermediate results. The programmer could have written i = (int) (i + j) + 1; thus allowing the calculation to be done in int under my rule. | After all, short int and int just have to be at least 16bit, and long | has to be at least 32bit. long long has to be at least 64bit if it is | even supported on a system. Linux seems to have decided to make it: | short is 16bit | int is 32bit | long is equal in size to pointers (so 32 or 64bit depending on cpu) | long long is 64bit As far as whether pointers should be able to be stored in int or long, I don't have an expectation. I have an anti-expectation: code that depends on this is suspect. When I learned C, there was no "long". When long was introduced, it was twice as wide as a pointer (PDP-11). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 19 23:29:37 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 23:29:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: blackberry tethering to linux ? Message-ID: I found some infos on this using bluetooth of all things. Does it work ? Is someone using it ? The short version: I need to be able to load applications for testing (MIDP/J2EE etc) into a device, without using the netwok. Is this possible at all ? I understand that it is possible to tether it using bluetooth and then do things like that. It seems unnecessarily complicated to me, when the device has a micro sd slot and i have a 2GB card for that. What am I missing ? Any pointers are welcome. Thanks. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 20 01:02:28 2009 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:02:28 -0400 Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> Message-ID: <200906192102.28912.amarjan@pobox.com> On June 19, 2009 03:36:40 pm Marc Lanctot wrote: > Hello, > > I use pal for my calendaring now and I'd like my xterms to open up with > the output from pal. However, if I add it to .bashrc, then when I try > to copy things to/fro remotely scp fails because there is output > generated by my .bashrc. > > So what I'd like to do is detect if the session is an xterm/console, or > through interactive ssh.. and output the calendar in these cases but > not in cases where I scp or execute a command remotely. > > Can I do this? If so, how? > > Thanks in advance, > Marc I have this at the top of my .bashrc, but I don't remember where I picked it up. I do know it's a pretty common idiom: # If not running interactively, don't do anything [ -z "$PS1" ] && return $PS1 is the variable that holds the primary prompt -- it's only set for interactive shells. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 20 02:25:58 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:25:58 -0400 Subject: Globe & Mail article on FOSS use by Cdn gov't Message-ID: <4A3C48B6.3080208@telly.org> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/time-for-canadas-government-to-open-up/article1185932/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 20 11:32:01 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 07:32:01 -0400 Subject: Globe & Mail article on FOSS use by Cdn gov't In-Reply-To: <4A3C48B6.3080208-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3C48B6.3080208@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A3CC8B1.5090604@moores.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/time-for-canadas-government-to-open-up/article1185932/ > > Excellent article Even. Thanks. You are most definitely right about the potential of government contracts for custom software. Does your definition of inertia in the article, (and this list previously) include the cost of vendor lock in? That is a pretty big hurdle to change for larger companies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 20 11:45:04 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 07:45:04 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <20090619191609.GS18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> <20090619191609.GS18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A3CCBC0.1060204@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 02:39:18PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >> I like architectural diversity. It can be used to help C programmers >> (like me) discover where they've written unportable code. ("all the >> world's a VAX" disease). Unfortunately the x86-64 ABI panders to this >> disease (evidence: sizeof(int) == 4!). >> > > How is that a problem? As long as size(long) == 8 on a 64bit machine, > then you should be happy. Windows unfortunately does NOT do that. > They have a special long type for storing pointer size things on 64bt > systems. > > After all, short int and int just have to be at least 16bit, and long > has to be at least 32bit. long long has to be at least 64bit if it is > even supported on a system. Linux seems to have decided to make it: > short is 16bit > int is 32bit > long is equal in size to pointers (so 32 or 64bit depending on cpu) > long long is 64bit > Many years ago, I took a C programming course. In class, we used Borland's Turbo C++ on DOS. At home, I used Borland C++ for OS/2. I occasionally got bitten by the difference in "int" length, which was 16 bits in Turbo C++ and 32 on Borland C++. My code would work fine at home, but bomb out in class because I'd overflow some variable. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 20 12:12:13 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 08:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Globe & Mail article on FOSS use by Cdn gov't In-Reply-To: <4A3CC8B1.5090604-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3C48B6.3080208@telly.org> <4A3CC8B1.5090604@moores.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Jun 2009, Darryl Moore wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/time-for-canadas-government- > to-open-up/article1185932/ > > Excellent article Even. Thanks. You are most definitely right about > the potential of government contracts for custom software. Does your > definition of inertia in the article, (and this list previously) > include the cost of vendor lock in? That is a pretty big hurdle to > change for larger companies i just skimmed that article, and it didn't seem to mention the value of open *data formats* as well. i think that's at least as important as the open source concept. most of the time i see a mention of open formats, it's tacked on as a brief aside, but it would be nice to have an entire article on that, explaining that vendor "lock-in" applies to keeping your valuable company data in a proprietary format, such as Word. i can even see the title of that piece: "Why, yes, Microsoft *does* own all of your company data. Why do you ask?" or something like that. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 20 12:27:10 2009 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 08:27:10 -0400 Subject: Globe & Mail article on FOSS use by Cdn gov't In-Reply-To: <4A3CC8B1.5090604-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3C48B6.3080208@telly.org> <4A3CC8B1.5090604@moores.ca> Message-ID: <200906200827.10886.icanprogram@295.ca> On Saturday 20 June 2009 07:32 am, Darryl Moore wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/time-for-canadas-governmen > >t-to-open-up/article1185932/ > > Excellent article Even. Thanks. You are most definitely right about the > potential of government contracts for custom software. Does your > definition of inertia in the article, (and this list previously) include > the cost of vendor lock in? That is a pretty big hurdle to change for > larger companies Depending on the type of custom software you build from open source tools, we've found that the critical resource shortage is skilled programmers. Those that are kicking around are getting decidedly grey haired. In Malcom Gladwell's book Outliers, he claims that it takes 10000 hands on hours to gain expertise in any field. Custom open source is no exception. It will take a mindset change on the part of the largest consumers of custom software (banks, government) before we can once again attract new young talent into the open source custom developer field. I've been involved in custom software efforts with both, and I don't hold out much hope for that mindset change. While it might sound illogical to us, the money saving argument carries very little weight with these organizations. I was involved with a municipal government proposal a few years back. We had identified an existing open source project which would have nicely formed the nucleus of what they wanted. Our proposal was for them to kick in a few $100k to fund developers to extend and customize that project. We suggested that they band together with neighboring municipalities and share that developer cost. Instead that municipality elected to go it alone for a $5M product which only did 50% of what they wanted ... but offered them an "entity to sue". To my knowledge they still don't have that system working. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 20 13:34:51 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 09:34:51 -0400 Subject: Globe & Mail article on FOSS use by Cdn gov't In-Reply-To: <200906200827.10886.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3C48B6.3080208@telly.org> <4A3CC8B1.5090604@moores.ca> <200906200827.10886.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <4A3CE57B.6030007@moores.ca> bob 295 wrote: > > Instead that > municipality elected to go it alone for a $5M product which only did 50% of > what they wanted ... but offered them an "entity to sue". To my knowledge > they still don't have that system working. > > bob > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > So.... Er, the obligatory question here. Did they sue? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 20 13:40:30 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 23:40:30 +1000 Subject: Globe & Mail article on FOSS use by Cdn gov't In-Reply-To: <4A3CC8B1.5090604-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3C48B6.3080208@telly.org> <4A3CC8B1.5090604@moores.ca> Message-ID: <4A3CE6CE.3040903@telly.org> Darryl Moore wrote: > Does your definition of inertia in the article, (and this list > previously) include the cost of vendor lock in? That is a pretty big > hurdle to change for larger companies It does, but in my experience the psychological forms of lock-in are even greater than the technical barriers. Managers have invested their own careers into one way of doing things, and that's all they know. Or they've allowed a small number of vendors to essentially make their IT strategy for them by proxy. They're scared to death of solutions that break that comfort zone, and even if they're cheaper and more robust and completely interoperable. They don't want staff that know more about the new tech than they do. And they don't want to make choices that until now they've allowed their vendors to make on their behalf. (Heck, FOSS completely wrecks the traditional VAR model because there's nothing to resell and the VAR actually has to *prove* their added value! Think of what FUD the VAR sector has to spread about FOSS to protect their interests, FUD that is readily swallowed by businesses as evidence against change.) Of course, there are still technical barriers to entry, and the opponents of FOSS keep trying to make news ones all the time (OOXML, anyone?). But even when the technical barriers have been eliminated, the personal barriers may prove to be harder to overcome. In some cases, change simply will not come until people retire. Managers have become complacent, or too voluntarily dependent on vendors, or simply too scared to make any significant change on their own initiative. And senior management is too timid to force them out of that comfort zone -- apparently, especially in Canada. - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 20 13:53:47 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 09:53:47 -0400 Subject: Globe & Mail article on FOSS use by Cdn gov't In-Reply-To: <4A3CE6CE.3040903-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3C48B6.3080208@telly.org> <4A3CC8B1.5090604@moores.ca> <4A3CE6CE.3040903@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A3CE9EB.3060706@moores.ca> To a large extent, I agree with you. And your rationale explains why the key to OSS penetration will be with small businesses. Small businesses already contract out a lot of their IT HR. They have less invested in proprietary technology, and saving a few dollars is always more important to them. Not to discount government sponsored OSS, which I think is important, but I think the penetration vector into industry will come via small business more than government. Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Darryl Moore wrote: >> Does your definition of inertia in the article, (and this list >> previously) include the cost of vendor lock in? That is a pretty big >> hurdle to change for larger companies > > It does, but in my experience the psychological forms of lock-in are > even greater than the technical barriers. Managers have invested their > own careers into one way of doing things, and that's all they know. Or > they've allowed a small number of vendors to essentially make their IT > strategy for them by proxy. They're scared to death of solutions that > break that comfort zone, and even if they're cheaper and more robust and > completely interoperable. They don't want staff that know more about the > new tech than they do. And they don't want to make choices that until > now they've allowed their vendors to make on their behalf. (Heck, FOSS > completely wrecks the traditional VAR model because there's nothing to > resell and the VAR actually has to *prove* their added value! Think of > what FUD the VAR sector has to spread about FOSS to protect their > interests, FUD that is readily swallowed by businesses as evidence > against change.) > > Of course, there are still technical barriers to entry, and the > opponents of FOSS keep trying to make news ones all the time (OOXML, > anyone?). But even when the technical barriers have been eliminated, the > personal barriers may prove to be harder to overcome. In some cases, > change simply will not come until people retire. Managers have become > complacent, or too voluntarily dependent on vendors, or simply too > scared to make any significant change on their own initiative. And > senior management is too timid to force them out of that comfort zone -- > apparently, especially in Canada. > > - Evan > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 20 15:28:26 2009 From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 11:28:26 -0400 Subject: Linux on Netbooks (NOT!), was: Globe & Mail article on FOSS use by Cdn gov't In-Reply-To: <4A3CE6CE.3040903-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3C48B6.3080208@telly.org> <4A3CC8B1.5090604@moores.ca> <4A3CE6CE.3040903@telly.org> Message-ID: <4A3D001A.4020503@moores.ca> On a related note, I came across this link by way of slashdot. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090619161307529 Which demonstrates that as well as all the constructive things we can be doing that Evan suggests, (and I do agree with) we still have this monopoly issue that needs dealing with. It might not be pleasant, but I am sure it is necessary. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From alex.s.maynard2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 20 19:11:00 2009 From: alex.s.maynard2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:11:00 -0400 Subject: Anyone else getting an error message using openoffice on ubuntu-jaunty? In-Reply-To: <185fc6840906060926j4d9e87e1vecec79b7fe11aad1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <185fc6840906060926j4d9e87e1vecec79b7fe11aad1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <185fc6840906201211j7a39ec27qc4820ed86410e9d@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Alex Maynard wrote: > Just curious if any one else is getting an error message like this using > openoffice on ubuntu-jaunty?: > > openoffice > /usr/lib/openoffice/program/../basis-link/ure-link/bin/javaldx: symbol > lookup error: /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2: undefined symbol: gzopen64 > I apologise for a message that's probably not of interest to anyone on this list, since no one had similar problems, but I wanted to follow up with a description to the problem I had just in case any case anyone has a similar problem in the future and brings up this thread in a search. The specific problem I had came from installing Matlab. It is described here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxml2/+bug/151045/comments/11. Specifically, the error message above was eliminated once I removed /usr/local/bin/MATLAB/bin/glnx86 from LD_LIBRARY_PATH in /etc/bash.bashrc. There seem to be several other sources+solutions for this problem, as described at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxml2/+bug/151045 Alex > > ** (soffice:31575): WARNING **: unable to get gail version number > > I just installed ubuntu-jaunty on my desktop and laptop and get this error > on both. Openoffice still opens. Reinstalling libxml2 didn't seem to help. > > Alex > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 20 20:45:43 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:45:43 -0400 Subject: Extracting soundtrack from DVD Message-ID: <4A3D4A77.7020306@teksavvy.com> Hi I want to extract the soundtrack from an old movie on DVD and edit it to get the theme song. I've had a look at dvd::rip and mencoder but want just the audio. Any recommendations on what to use to extract just the soundtrack? I'm thinking of using audacity to edit the soundtrack once extracted. Suggestions and pointers will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 20 20:58:58 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:58:58 -0400 Subject: Extracting soundtrack from DVD In-Reply-To: <4A3D4A77.7020306-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3D4A77.7020306@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090620165858.03b3b435.tleslie@tcn.net> I am pretty sure memcoder can do this for you, can raw copy, or re-encode video and audio based on various command line options, and you can deal with audio and video seperately. -tl On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:45:43 -0400 Meng Cheah wrote: > Hi > > I want to extract the soundtrack from an old movie on DVD and edit it to > get the theme song. > > I've had a look at dvd::rip and mencoder but want just the audio. > Any recommendations on what to use to extract just the soundtrack? > > I'm thinking of using audacity to edit the soundtrack once extracted. > > Suggestions and pointers will be appreciated. > Thanks in advance. > > Meng > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 00:55:49 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Creating a Linux Distro Message-ID: <702703.83276.qm@web111214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I am wondering out aloud, what would it take to create a Linux distro. How and where could I begin the journey. Can someone please point me to any information. Would anyone be crazy enough to join me in such a pet project? I am doing it because it's there to do, I have other motivations (fame, glory, bling-bling, chick groupies...don't laugh) but it's something I want to take on. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav __________________________________________________________________ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 01:02:55 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 21:02:55 -0400 Subject: Creating a Linux Distro In-Reply-To: <702703.83276.qm-ocD5SZSfVawA0QRgWO9Mevu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <702703.83276.qm@web111214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906201802g35093ad2o152371ae200accc7@mail.gmail.com> >From scratch or based on an existing distro (as Ubuntu is to debian, etc)? On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > I am wondering out aloud, what would it take to create a Linux distro. How and where could I begin the journey. Can someone please point me to any information. Would anyone be crazy enough to join me in such a pet project? > > I am doing it because it's there to do, I have other motivations (fame, glory, bling-bling, chick groupies...don't laugh) but it's something I want to take on. > > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > > ? ? ?__________________________________________________________________ > Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 01:03:46 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 21:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Jun 2009, Marc Lanctot wrote: > So what I'd like to do is detect if the session is an > xterm/console, or through interactive ssh.. and output the > calendar in these cases but not in cases where I scp or > execute a command remotely. case $- in *i* ) INTERACTIVE=1 ;; esac -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 01:08:31 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Creating a Linux Distro Message-ID: <132290.68956.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> >From scratch and have fun building things up, learning along the way and possibly including innovation along the way...if humanly possible =) Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Tyler Aviss wrote: > From: Tyler Aviss > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Creating a Linux Distro > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 9:02 PM > From scratch or based on an existing > distro (as Ubuntu is to debian, etc)? > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Rajinder Yadav > wrote: > > > > I am wondering out aloud, what would it take to create > a Linux distro. How and where could I begin the journey. Can > someone please point me to any information. Would anyone be > crazy enough to join me in such a pet project? > > > > I am doing it because it's there to do, I have other > motivations (fame, glory, bling-bling, chick > groupies...don't laugh) but it's something I want to take > on. > > > > Kind Regards, > > Rajinder Yadav > > > > > > ? ? > ?__________________________________________________________________ > > Connect with friends from any web browser - no > download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for > the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below > 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (778) 890-0942 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 01:11:26 2009 From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 21:11:26 -0400 Subject: Creating a Linux Distro In-Reply-To: <132290.68956.qm-ocD5SZSfVayORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <132290.68956.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I was thinking of something similar, something round that would provide for the conveyance of material goods on a mobile platform ;) On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > From scratch and have fun building things up, learning along the way and > possibly including innovation along the way...if humanly possible =) > > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > > From: Tyler Aviss > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Creating a Linux Distro > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Received: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 9:02 PM > > From scratch or based on an existing > > distro (as Ubuntu is to debian, etc)? > > > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Rajinder Yadav > > wrote: > > > > > > I am wondering out aloud, what would it take to create > > a Linux distro. How and where could I begin the journey. Can > > someone please point me to any information. Would anyone be > > crazy enough to join me in such a pet project? > > > > > > I am doing it because it's there to do, I have other > > motivations (fame, glory, bling-bling, chick > > groupies...don't laugh) but it's something I want to take > > on. > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > Rajinder Yadav > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > Connect with friends from any web browser - no > > download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for > > the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below > > 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Tyler Aviss > > Systems Support > > LPIC/LPIC-2 > > (778) 890-0942 > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. > > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > > columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! > Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/ > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 01:19:58 2009 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 21:19:58 -0400 Subject: Creating a Linux Distro In-Reply-To: <132290.68956.qm-ocD5SZSfVayORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <132290.68956.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A3D8ABE.2060700@ss.org> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > From scratch and have fun building things up, learning along the way and possibly including innovation along the way...if humanly possible =) > Linux From Scratch [1] is an excellent place to start, it's a book guided build of a simple distro from setting up build environments to compiling packages. [1]: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 01:25:20 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Creating a Linux Distro Message-ID: <230948.61005.qm@web111209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Cool maybe we can talk, maybe there are many many others willing to join this cause? But Seriously now! I am planning on calling the Distro....drum roll please! Linux GF/SE (Linux Girlfriend Safe & Easy), in fact that will be my slogan! It would be pronounced "Linux G-F-See" for the underground ;) ... and yes a micro mobile version would be something I would like to see happen! If we blow up real big, we will make Linux sexxy for the masses and have scanty clad girls at our Linux GF/SE conventions, we will pack the house. I am thinking really big here, it sound ridiculousness right now, but it's a possibility I am willing to make occur. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Thomas Milne wrote: > From: Thomas Milne > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Creating a Linux Distro > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 9:11 PM > I was thinking of something similar, > something round that would provide for the conveyance of > material goods on a mobile platform ;) > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 9:08 PM, > Rajinder Yadav > wrote: > > > > From scratch and have fun building things up, learning > along the way and possibly including innovation along the > way...if humanly possible =) > > > > Kind Regards, > > Rajinder Yadav > > > > > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Tyler Aviss > wrote: > > > > > From: Tyler Aviss > > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Creating a Linux Distro > > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > Received: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 9:02 PM > > > From scratch or based > on an existing > > > distro (as Ubuntu is to debian, etc)? > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Rajinder Yadav > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I am wondering out aloud, what would it take to > create > > > a Linux distro. How and where could I begin the > journey. Can > > > someone please point me to any information. Would > anyone be > > > crazy enough to join me in such a pet project? > > > > > > > > I am doing it because it's there to do, I > have other > > > motivations (fame, glory, bling-bling, chick > > > groupies...don't laugh) but it's something I > want to take > > > on. > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Rajinder Yadav > > > > > > > > > > > > ? ? > > > > ?__________________________________________________________________ > > > > Connect with friends from any web browser - no > > > download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger > for > > > the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php > > > > > > > > -- > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below > > > 80 columns > > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Tyler Aviss > > > Systems Support > > > LPIC/LPIC-2 > > > (778) 890-0942 > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > > > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below > 80 > > > columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > > > ? ? > ?__________________________________________________________________ > > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with > All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/ > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 01:27:59 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:27:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Creating a Linux Distro Message-ID: <15491.97798.qm@web111214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Yes Thanks Scott, I am just on this site right now. I recall coming across it many years back when I was in University, will see what I can uncover, and maybe things will sink in this time around =) I am wondering if there are other sites that will accelerate my journey? Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Scott Sullivan wrote: > From: Scott Sullivan > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Creating a Linux Distro > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 9:19 PM > Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > From scratch and have fun building things up, learning > along the way and possibly including innovation along the > way...if humanly possible =) > >??? > Linux From Scratch [1] is an excellent place to start, it's > a book guided build of a simple distro from setting up build > environments to compiling packages. > > [1]: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 01:39:40 2009 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 21:39:40 -0400 Subject: Creating a Linux Distro In-Reply-To: References: <132290.68956.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <491f66a50906201839t6a92f938n4266d9040d428417@mail.gmail.com> You might want to check this out www.*linuxfromscratch*.org/ Dave On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 9:11 PM, Thomas Milne < tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org> wrote: > I was thinking of something similar, something round that would provide for > the conveyance of material goods on a mobile platform ;) > > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > >> >> From scratch and have fun building things up, learning along the way and >> possibly including innovation along the way...if humanly possible =) >> >> Kind Regards, >> Rajinder Yadav >> >> >> --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> > From: Tyler Aviss >> > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Creating a Linux Distro >> > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> > Received: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 9:02 PM >> > From scratch or based on an existing >> > distro (as Ubuntu is to debian, etc)? >> > >> > On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Rajinder Yadav >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > I am wondering out aloud, what would it take to create >> > a Linux distro. How and where could I begin the journey. Can >> > someone please point me to any information. Would anyone be >> > crazy enough to join me in such a pet project? >> > > >> > > I am doing it because it's there to do, I have other >> > motivations (fame, glory, bling-bling, chick >> > groupies...don't laugh) but it's something I want to take >> > on. >> > > >> > > Kind Regards, >> > > Rajinder Yadav >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > __________________________________________________________________ >> > > Connect with friends from any web browser - no >> > download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for >> > the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php >> > > >> > > -- >> > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below >> > 80 columns >> > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Tyler Aviss >> > Systems Support >> > LPIC/LPIC-2 >> > (778) 890-0942 >> > -- >> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. >> > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 >> > columns >> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > >> >> >> __________________________________________________________________ >> Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! >> Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/ >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 04:54:46 2009 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 14:54:46 +1000 Subject: Linux on Netbooks (NOT!), was: Globe & Mail article on FOSS use by Cdn gov't In-Reply-To: <4A3D001A.4020503-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3C48B6.3080208@telly.org> <4A3CC8B1.5090604@moores.ca> <4A3CE6CE.3040903@telly.org> <4A3D001A.4020503@moores.ca> Message-ID: <1245560086.5052.3.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> On Sat, 2009-06-20 at 11:28 -0400, Darryl Moore wrote: > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090619161307529 No doubt, but http://www.linux-netbook.com/hp-mini-110-mi so don't give up hope. AfC Sydney -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 06:00:27 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Jun 2009, Marc Lanctot wrote: > So what I'd like to do is detect if the session is an xterm/console, or > through interactive ssh.. and output the calendar in these cases but > not in cases where I scp or execute a command remotely. > > Can I do this? If so, how? I change my prompt based on whether I am logged in under X or not: case $TERM in xterm) # Cyan prompt, host, tty & date in xterm title (36 denotes cyan) export PS1='\[\033]2;\H:\l (\d \t)\007\[\033[36m\]\h:\w\$\[\033[m\]' ;; *) # Cyan prompt, time printed in top right hand corner (36 denotes cyan) export PS1='\[`tput sc;tput cup 0 71`\t`tput rc`\]\[\033[36m\]\h:\w\$\[\033[m\] ' ;; esac I only use xterm, not any of the other terminal apps. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 11:32:50 2009 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 07:32:50 -0400 Subject: Globe & Mail article on FOSS use by Cdn gov't In-Reply-To: <4A3CE57B.6030007-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3C48B6.3080208@telly.org> <200906200827.10886.icanprogram@295.ca> <4A3CE57B.6030007@moores.ca> Message-ID: <200906210732.51091.icanprogram@295.ca> On Saturday 20 June 2009 09:34 am, Darryl Moore wrote: > bob 295 wrote: > > Instead that > > municipality elected to go it alone for a $5M product which only did 50% > > of what they wanted ... but offered them an "entity to sue". To my > > knowledge they still don't have that system working. > > > > bob > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > So.... Er, the obligatory question here. Did they sue? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Yes ... the first vendor ... got to keep those legal departments fully occupied you know. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 15:12:41 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 11:12:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux on Netbooks (NOT!), was: Globe & Mail article on FOSS use by Cdn gov't In-Reply-To: <4A3D001A.4020503-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3C48B6.3080208@telly.org> <4A3CC8B1.5090604@moores.ca> <4A3CE6CE.3040903@telly.org> <4A3D001A.4020503@moores.ca> Message-ID: | From: Darryl Moore | On a related note, I came across this link by way of slashdot. | | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090619161307529 Very interesting! I had kind of wondered what was going on when I read a report from Computex. This amplifies my concerns. I would not say it was a proof. Here's another topic that might be FUD and might not be: return rates of Linux netbooks vs WinXP netbooks. I remmber MSI saying that "The return rate is at least four times higher for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks." http://blog.laptopmag.com/msi-wind-coming-to-major-retailer-new-models-coming-soon Apparently the Linux was SuSE. Apparently Ubuntu confirmed high return rates (but they don't know WinXP return rates): http://blog.laptopmag.com/ubuntu-confirms-linux-netbook-returns-higher-than-anticpated Yet I remember that Dell said that Linux was not worse than WinXP for them: http://netbookboards.com/dell/mini-9-netbook-running-ubuntu-returned-less-than-xp/ They use a version of Ubuntu LTS 8.04. Here's an interesting article: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9131204 About the MSI statement, it said: Solis said in a March research note that Taiwan's MSI had not yet shipped a Linux-based Wind at the time of the comment to the magazine. When it did, it did not "adapt" the operating system for the netbook's smaller size -- a key ingredient to Linux's acceptance by consumers, Solis wrote. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From efmccurdy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 21 23:34:21 2009 From: efmccurdy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ed F. McCurdy) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:34:21 -0400 Subject: Extracting soundtrack from DVD In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:45:43 EDT." <4A3D4A77.7020306-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3D4A77.7020306@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <624.1245627261@lowell> >>>>> "Meng" == Meng Cheah writes: Meng> Hi I want to extract the soundtrack from an old movie on DVD After mounting the dvd on /mnt/cdrom, this will dump the audio from the 3rd title on the DVD into out.mp3. mplayer dvd://3 -dvd-device /mnt/cdrom -vo null -dumpaudio -dumpfile out.mp3 Hope that helps.... Ed -- Edward F. McCurdy | efmccurdy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 22 00:55:33 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Creating a Linux Distro Message-ID: <291906.23325.qm@web111212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Well thanks for the feedback, guy! I am going to get this project started and try as I may to get at least one new thing completed each day till I have a base image to work with =) I will use my CentOS 5.0 box to do all the work in as I've already got my development environment setup. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Dave Cramer wrote: > From: Dave Cramer > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Creating a Linux Distro > To: tlug at ss.org > Received: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 9:39 PM > You might want to check this out > > www.linuxfromscratch.org/ > > > Dave > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 9:11 PM, > Thomas Milne > wrote: > > I was thinking of something > similar, something round that would provide for the > conveyance of material goods on a mobile platform ;) > > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 9:08 PM, > Rajinder Yadav > wrote: > > > > From scratch and have fun building things up, learning > along the way and possibly including innovation along the > way...if humanly possible =) > > > > Kind Regards, > > Rajinder Yadav > > > > > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Tyler Aviss > wrote: > > > > > From: Tyler Aviss > > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Creating a Linux Distro > > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > Received: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 9:02 PM > > > From scratch or based on an > existing > > > distro (as Ubuntu is to debian, etc)? > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Rajinder Yadav > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I am wondering out aloud, what would it take to > create > > > a Linux distro. How and where could I begin the > journey. Can > > > someone please point me to any information. Would > anyone be > > > crazy enough to join me in such a pet project? > > > > > > > > I am doing it because it's there to do, I > have other > > > motivations (fame, glory, bling-bling, chick > > > groupies...don't laugh) but it's something I > want to take > > > on. > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Rajinder Yadav > > > > > > > > > > > > ? ? > > > > ?__________________________________________________________________ > > > > Connect with friends from any web browser - no > > > download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger > for > > > the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php > > > > > > > > -- > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below > > > 80 columns > > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Tyler Aviss > > > Systems Support > > > LPIC/LPIC-2 > > > (778) 890-0942 > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > > > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below > 80 > > > columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > > > ? ? > ?__________________________________________________________________ > > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with > All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/ > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 22 07:37:30 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 03:37:30 -0400 Subject: A time waster/distraction Message-ID: <4A3F34BA.9040006@alteeve.com> I can't sleep, so I wrote this: http://random.madisonave.ca Hope someone finds it entertaining. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 22 09:37:43 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:37:43 -0400 Subject: Extracting soundtrack from DVD In-Reply-To: <624.1245627261@lowell> References: <624.1245627261@lowell> Message-ID: <4A3F50E7.1040601@teksavvy.com> Ed F. McCurdy wrote: >>>>>> "Meng" == Meng Cheah writes: >>>>>> > > Meng> Hi I want to extract the soundtrack from an old movie on DVD > > After mounting the dvd on /mnt/cdrom, this will dump the audio > from the 3rd title on the DVD into out.mp3. > > mplayer dvd://3 -dvd-device /mnt/cdrom -vo null -dumpaudio -dumpfile out.mp3 > I changed it to mplayer dvd://1 -vo null -dumpaudio -dumpfile out.mp3 > Hope that helps.... > Ed > Thanks to all who responded. Mencoder and mplayer can extract the soundtrack from the DVD. The incantations below work, at least for me :-) mplayer /media/cdrom0/VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_1.VOB -ao pcm:file=audio.wav -vc dummy -aid 128 -vo null mencoder dvd://1 -ovc frameno -oac mp3lame -lavcopts acodec=mp3lame:abitrate=128 -o frameno.avi mplayer dvd://1 -vo null -dumpaudio -dumpfile out.mp3 mplayer dvd://1 -aid 128 -vo null -ao pcm:file='ice2.wav' So far, I've only been able to play the extracted soundtrack in audacity if it's a .wav file. I'll look further at mplayer, mencoder and audacity. Thanks again, guys. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 22 10:56:56 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 03:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ESC error message Message-ID: <279473.76495.qm@web111201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Figured out what the ECS error was, and that I could safely remove it! [root at localhost downloads]# rpm -qi esc Name : esc Relocations: (not relocatable) Version : 1.0.0 Vendor: CentOS Release : 39.el5 Build Date: Wed 21 Jan 2009 05:00:02 AM EST Install Date: Mon 22 Jun 2009 09:32:22 PM EDT Build Host: builder16.centos.org Group : Applications/Internet Source RPM: esc-1.0.0-39.el5.src.rpm Size : 1194272 License: GPL Signature : DSA/SHA1, Sun 08 Mar 2009 09:45:26 PM EDT, Key ID a8a447dce8562897 URL : http://directory.fedora.redhat.com/wiki/CoolKey Summary : Enterprise Security Client Smart Card Client Description : Enterprise Security Client allows the user to enroll and manage their cryptographic smartcards. --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > From: Rajinder Yadav > Subject: [TLUG]: ESC error message > To: "[TLUG]" > Received: Monday, June 15, 2009, 10:34 PM > > When I login to KDE on my CentOS I see an error dialog > saying, > > "ESC is already running, but is not responding. To open a > new windows, you must first close the existing ESC process, > or restart your system." > > What is ESC and what can I do to stop this error dialog > from popping up right after I login? > > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > > ? ? ? > __________________________________________________________________ > Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new > Internet Explorer? 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for > Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 22 13:09:27 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:09:27 -0400 Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> Message-ID: <20090622130927.GT18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 03:36:40PM -0400, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I use pal for my calendaring now and I'd like my xterms to open up with > the output from pal. However, if I add it to .bashrc, then when I try > to copy things to/fro remotely scp fails because there is output > generated by my .bashrc. > > So what I'd like to do is detect if the session is an xterm/console, or > through interactive ssh.. and output the calendar in these cases but > not in cases where I scp or execute a command remotely. > > Can I do this? If so, how? Use the profile instead of bashrc. bashrc is used for both interactive and non interactive sessions, while profile should only be interactive. Hence ssh will give you output, and scp will not. No need for anything complicated checking variables and all that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 22 13:19:13 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:19:13 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> <20090619191609.GS18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090622131913.GU18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 05:45:01PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 02:39:18PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > | > Unfortunately the x86-64 ABI panders to this > | > disease (evidence: sizeof(int) == 4!). > | > | How is that a problem? As long as size(long) == 8 on a 64bit machine, > | then you should be happy. Windows unfortunately does NOT do that. > | They have a special long type for storing pointer size things on 64bt > | systems. > > K&R, first edition, describes int as: > an integer, typically reflecting the natural size of integers > on the host machine Well K&R did many stupid things that people have since realized and tried to fix. That was probably one of them. > Furthermore, in describing short and long, it says: > > The intent is that short and long should provide different > lengths of integers where practical; in will normally reflect > the most ``natural'' size for a particular machine. > > To me, on a machine that I think of as 64-bit, that would be 64 bits. Well that's not how any modern system treats it. > To be honest, I think that the structure of integral types in C are a > mess. One fix-up adopted by the C Committee looks ugly too: adding > types with explicit widths in bits. Sometimes that is what you require for the ability to control structs, packing of data in files, on network links, etc. > Pascal's subranges are more natural. You get to specify the range in > terms that are relevant to your problem. Intermediate expressions should > be as-if calculated in infinite width. If a programmer knows that > an intermediate expression won't overflow a narrower type, and the > compiler cannot know that, the programmer can add a cast to help the > compiler. The default is then correct, if possibly inefficient, > instead of efficient, if possibly incorrect. Pascal is a higher level language than C. > Examples of the as-if rule in practice: > > int i, j, k; > long m, n; > > m = i + j; > > Now, if i + j does not fit in int, but does fit long, overflow occurs. > With my rule, the correct result will be calculated. > > i = i + j; > > No difference: since the result is stored in int, the calculation can > be done in int without loss. If i and j are both MAXINT, then it doesn't fit and loss will happen. > i = i + j + 1; > This case is interesting because, for certain values of i and j, i + j > could overflow int and yet have i + j + 1 still representable as int. Well at least the bits left over after throwing away the overflow. > Most current hardware silently ignores overflow (essentially copying > the PDP-11). I've found this to be unfortunate: overflow is generally > a sign of a bug. It is legal for a C implementation to consider this > an error. > > With existing C, the program could fail due to overflow whereas my > rule would make this correct. The cost is that, under my rules, on a > machine with trapping overflow, the calculation must be done with > wider intermediate results. Which involves serious hardware changes in which case why not just make everything in the machine wider. Of course then someone will want a wider one still. > The programmer could have written i = (int) (i + j) + 1; > thus allowing the calculation to be done in int under my rule. And it still can cause overflow, so what's your point? > | After all, short int and int just have to be at least 16bit, and long > | has to be at least 32bit. long long has to be at least 64bit if it is > | even supported on a system. Linux seems to have decided to make it: > | short is 16bit > | int is 32bit > | long is equal in size to pointers (so 32 or 64bit depending on cpu) > | long long is 64bit > > As far as whether pointers should be able to be stored in int or long, > I don't have an expectation. I have an anti-expectation: code that > depends on this is suspect. Well modern use of C seems to expect sizeof(long) == sizeof(void*) except on windows 64bit. > When I learned C, there was no "long". When long was introduced, it > was twice as wide as a pointer (PDP-11). Must be a long time ago. I am rather pleased that linux has tried to make some sanity of things by standardizing the size of most of the types on linux. The only one that varies is long, and it is defined as the size of a pointer, so even it is rather standard. The only other one that varies is the sign of char when not specified. Some systems are signed, some are unsigned, although apparently C now says that char isn't the same as unsigned char or signed char but is its own third type for string use. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 22 13:20:18 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:20:18 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <4A3CCBC0.1060204-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> <20090619191609.GS18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A3CCBC0.1060204@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090622132018.GV18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 07:45:04AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Many years ago, I took a C programming course. In class, we used > Borland's Turbo C++ on DOS. At home, I used Borland C++ for OS/2. I > occasionally got bitten by the difference in "int" length, which was 16 > bits in Turbo C++ and 32 on Borland C++. My code would work fine at > home, but bomb out in class because I'd overflow some variable. Well both are C compliant. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 22 14:32:54 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:32:54 -0400 Subject: checking multiple nameservers Message-ID: <4A3F9616.1090904@tmis.ca> I used to know the URL of a site that would check 10 or 20 various nameservers. (for domains of course) I know it can be done with dig, but it is easier sometimes with the website. Cannot remember the URL. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 22 17:27:43 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:27:43 -0400 Subject: A time waster/distraction In-Reply-To: <4A3F34BA.9040006-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3F34BA.9040006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090622172743.GW18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 03:37:30AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I can't sleep, so I wrote this: > > http://random.madisonave.ca > > Hope someone finds it entertaining. :) OK, that's just weird. :) Let's just say NSFW sometimes. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 22 17:59:54 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:59:54 -0400 Subject: A time waster/distraction In-Reply-To: <20090622172743.GW18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3F34BA.9040006@alteeve.com> <20090622172743.GW18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A3FC69A.90300@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 03:37:30AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> I can't sleep, so I wrote this: >> >> http://random.madisonave.ca >> >> Hope someone finds it entertaining. :) > > OK, that's just weird. :) > > Let's just say NSFW sometimes. > Haha, I tried to mitigate that by using google as my source which defaults to safe search. However, I figure most people are adults and can tell when a link might be outside their interest. Besides, you can always just click "Another, please." and try again. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 22 20:18:21 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:18:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <20090622131913.GU18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> <20090619191609.GS18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090622131913.GU18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 05:45:01PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > | From: Lennart Sorensen | > | > | On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 02:39:18PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > | > | > Unfortunately the x86-64 ABI panders to this | > | > disease (evidence: sizeof(int) == 4!). | > | | > | How is that a problem? As long as size(long) == 8 on a 64bit machine, | > | then you should be happy. Windows unfortunately does NOT do that. | > | They have a special long type for storing pointer size things on 64bt | > | systems. | > | > K&R, first edition, describes int as: | > an integer, typically reflecting the natural size of integers | > on the host machine | | Well K&R did many stupid things that people have since realized and | tried to fix. That was probably one of them. I consider it quite sensible. Remember, C evolved from a "typeless" language, B (which evolved from BCPL, a typeless variant of CPL). Everything was a machine word. "int" was how this was spelled in C. "int" is the type to be used when you don't have any reason to demand special properties. | > Furthermore, in describing short and long, it says: | > | > The intent is that short and long should provide different | > lengths of integers where practical; in will normally reflect | > the most ``natural'' size for a particular machine. | > | > To me, on a machine that I think of as 64-bit, that would be 64 bits. | | Well that's not how any modern system treats it. It is true that LP64 rather than ILP64 was adopted by most implementations. See http://www.unix.org/version2/whatsnew/lp64_wp.html and http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-help/2009-02/msg00030.html (The first place I noticed this discussion and terminology was in the C Standards working paper 92-038 from 1992 April 1 (oops). It seemed to recommend ILP64, but certainly not as a requirement.) At the root, this was for the pragmatic reason that it made old C programs work more often. On the other hand, it was neither in the Spirit of C, nor did it maximize the benefit of the transition to 64-bit. This was particularly sad on the Alpha, the first version of which didn't even have partial word instructions (if I rememeber correctly). The trade off was: less short term pain for less long term gain. I will admit that the change of dynamic range from 16-bit to 32-bit was way more important than the change from 32 to 64. | > To be honest, I think that the structure of integral types in C are a | > mess. One fix-up adopted by the C Committee looks ugly too: adding | > types with explicit widths in bits. | | Sometimes that is what you require for the ability to control structs, | packing of data in files, on network links, etc. That is a sin. C structs are not correctly used for layout. | > Pascal's subranges are more natural. You get to specify the range in | > terms that are relevant to your problem. Intermediate expressions should | > be as-if calculated in infinite width. If a programmer knows that | > an intermediate expression won't overflow a narrower type, and the | > compiler cannot know that, the programmer can add a cast to help the | > compiler. The default is then correct, if possibly inefficient, | > instead of efficient, if possibly incorrect. | | Pascal is a higher level language than C. Sure, but that's not the issue. Subrange specification of integral types is actually simpler than the weird integral-type mixed-up partial order and easier to implement. - simpler to specify sanely - simpler for the programmer to understand - simpler to handle syntactically. - fewer keywords - fewer symbols to define in - simpler to write portable code. Quiz: does char promote to int or unsigned int? | > Examples of the as-if rule in practice: | > | > int i, j, k; | > long m, n; | > | > m = i + j; | > | > Now, if i + j does not fit in int, but does fit long, overflow occurs. | > With my rule, the correct result will be calculated. | > | > i = i + j; | > | > No difference: since the result is stored in int, the calculation can | > be done in int without loss. | | If i and j are both MAXINT, then it doesn't fit and loss will happen. Sorry that I wasn't clearer: "no difference" meant "just as wrong, just as right, just as efficient, the same compiled code". | > i = i + j + 1; | > This case is interesting because, for certain values of i and j, i + j | > could overflow int and yet have i + j + 1 still representable as int. | | Well at least the bits left over after throwing away the overflow. I meant what I said: the result could be representable. For example, the case MININT + (-1) + 1 Under the current rules, integer addition is not associative: different associations can cause different overflows. Overflow causes the program to be non-conformant (I've not checked the exactly correct term). Under my rules, integer addition would be associative, just as naive folks assumed. One reason that it is easy to assume that addition is commutative is that it is associative if the hardware silently wraps on overflow, and that is what most hardware does these days. BTW, I have written IBM/360 assembly programs where I could decide what to do with overflow: ignore or trap. I found that trapping was the best choice because most overflows detected actual errors. Just as silent buffer overflow has lead to bugs in C code, some with security implications, silent integer overflow has lead to bugs and vulnerabilities. My first public exploit (1976, I'd guess) was based on undetected integer overflow. | > Most current hardware silently ignores overflow (essentially copying | > the PDP-11). I've found this to be unfortunate: overflow is generally | > a sign of a bug. It is legal for a C implementation to consider this | > an error. | > | > With existing C, the program could fail due to overflow whereas my | > rule would make this correct. The cost is that, under my rules, on a | > machine with trapping overflow, the calculation must be done with | > wider intermediate results. | | Which involves serious hardware changes in which case why not just make | everything in the machine wider. Of course then someone will want a | wider one still. No, the case presupposes hardware that already does it. I'm not demanding such hardware, only talking about how to deal with it. | > The programmer could have written i = (int) (i + j) + 1; | > thus allowing the calculation to be done in int under my rule. | | And it still can cause overflow, so what's your point? The point is that the programmer can cause the efficient-but-risky code to be generated, even if it isn't the default behaviour. | > | After all, short int and int just have to be at least 16bit, and long | > | has to be at least 32bit. long long has to be at least 64bit if it is | > | even supported on a system. Linux seems to have decided to make it: | > | short is 16bit | > | int is 32bit | > | long is equal in size to pointers (so 32 or 64bit depending on cpu) | > | long long is 64bit | > | > As far as whether pointers should be able to be stored in int or long, | > I don't have an expectation. I have an anti-expectation: code that | > depends on this is suspect. | | Well modern use of C seems to expect sizeof(long) == sizeof(void*) | except on windows 64bit. That isn't modern, that is broken. The C standard does not support such usage, nor should it. The modern use of C is to get the types right (and the C standard tries to provide the necessary types). Linus can require that of the environment in which the kernel lives. Why would you want this feature? Would intptr_t satisfy that requirement? | > When I learned C, there was no "long". When long was introduced, it | > was twice as wide as a pointer (PDP-11). | | Must be a long time ago. | | I am rather pleased that linux has tried to make some sanity of things | by standardizing the size of most of the types on linux. The only | one that varies is long, and it is defined as the size of a pointer, | so even it is rather standard. The only other one that varies is the sign | of char when not specified. Some systems are signed, some are unsigned, | although apparently C now says that char isn't the same as unsigned char | or signed char but is its own third type for string use. That attitude would have left us stuck with PDP-11 representations: char 8 short 16 int 16 long 32 I can tell you that folks learned lessons on cleaner coding during each transition. The main ones seem to have been: PDP-11 => IBM/370, GE635 PDP-11 => VAX DOS => Win32 (? I wasn't involved) VAX => 68k (different endian) 68k => i386 (different endian) => Alpha, itanium SPARC64 (almost all stayed at 32, I think), PPC 64, i386 => x86_64. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 22 20:54:32 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:54:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: X11 client server, remote desktop, 10gbE, and weird FF shit In-Reply-To: <20090619001538.dcd0ba34.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20090619001538.dcd0ba34.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Jun 2009, ted leslie wrote: > I however was massively confused by running firefox on the remote > machine, it started firefox, but it was the firefox (binary) on my local > machine, so naturally i figured i got kicked out of the box and was > really running it on my local machine, nope, .. i run firefox on the > remote machine (over X), and it starts my local one!! i killed the local > instance of the FF, and re-tried, and it then brought up the FF running > from the remote (but displaying local) as expected. this is weird!! i > guess the WM on the local somehow intercepts, and .... ?? anyone know? Read through the FF startup scripts, it is in there. X gives us this amazing capability (network transparency) and the Mozilla team went out of their way to prevent it working for Firefox apparently to prevent someone accidentally starting firefox on the wrong box. Bizarre. They have been doing this for years. It seems you can now set en environment variable to tell FF to act rationally: MOZ_NO_REMOTE=1 > anyways, what i would like feed back on is .... > does anyone have any knowledge about stuff that doesn't work well over a > x-remote session? i can probably figure out the firefox issue ... but i In 15 years I've only come across 2 apps that didn't allow for remote display under X: 1) A game ported from Mac OS-8 or OS-9. Whoever ported it didn't understand how X was supposed to work and forced the use of shared memory. 2) tvtime, a TV app. The developer is on record as saying he can't see why anyone would want to display it remotely. I discovered this while trying to display it remotely. Go figure :) xawtv and friends work just fine remotely. > So any feed back on failed X-remote stories would be valuable. Before I > drop coin on a 10gbE set up. (all though i eventually will for the > NAS/SAN ability, but would do it sooner, if it rocks as a x server > environment). You could channel bond gigE cards for a fraction of the price. Maybe worth doing this to see if everything works the way you want. Then when you are sure it does you can lay out the cash for the 10GE. > Does a popularity/cheapness of 10gbE sort of kill the whole "wireless" > thing, and get us all back to wired in the home, with cable drops around > the house? no 20000mbs wireless on the horizon i am guessing? or would > that just be a microwave oven? :) 10GE won't kill wireless any more than wireless would kill wired LANs (another often heard claim). Each has advantages over the other. I predict more of the same: most ppl will stick with WiFi as it is easy and cheap, while a few will roll out cables in their home. > oh , and assuming the x server env. is viable for most anything, there > is just one nasty problem that will remain, copy/cut/paste across all > the systems????, i wonder what there is out there to allow that? some You can cut-n-paste between X apps connected to the same X-server regardless of whether they are local or remote. I do it every day. I highly recommend the use of ssh-agent. This will make your access to all your boxes transparent and allow you to start X apps remotely just as easily as locally (no password or passphrase to enter). This is how I run my systems and I've been known to occassionally forget which box was actually running a given app. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 22 22:30:42 2009 From: erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Erik (Caneris)) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:30:42 -0400 Subject: OT: getting rid of servers after upgrades... Message-ID: This is probably very OT, but I thought there might be some interest from folks here. We just completed some upgrades at 151 Front and in Richmond Hill and have a ton of HP ProLiants (G3s and G4s with decent specs, all at least 2x2.8Ghz 2GB) that we're getting rid of. If you're interested, please reply off-list to minimize the spam here. They'll go up on eBay within a week if there are no takers...we're not going to be asking more than $200-$300 each, just trying to get rid of them as we no longer have a use for them. Thanks Erik -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 00:22:49 2009 From: trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (cameron lord) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:22:49 -0400 Subject: Port 80? Message-ID: I have a problem, i run Mepis Light on a laptop of mine in a network, and i cant get any internet anymore on it, it says my laptop is already using Port 80 for apache, but i dont have apache installed. All my other systems based on Debain have now done this too, and i cant just re-image them! help?? _________________________________________________________________ Create a cool, new character for your Windows Live? Messenger. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9656621 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 00:49:22 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:49:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Port 80? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, cameron lord wrote: > > I have a problem, i run Mepis Light on a laptop of mine in a network, > and i cant get any internet anymore on it, it says my laptop is already > using Port 80 for apache, but i dont have apache installed. All my other > systems based on Debain have now done this too, and i cant just re-image > them! help?? Hi Cameron. Run netstat -tanp | grep LISTEN as root and look to see what process has port 80 open. You can then locate the relevant startup script and shut it down. You may wish to run rkhunter as "mysterious" open ports *can* be indicative of an intrusion but more often there is a mundane explanation. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 04:19:07 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:19:07 -0400 Subject: A time waster/distraction In-Reply-To: <4A3F34BA.9040006-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3F34BA.9040006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4A4057BB.2030805@linuxcaffe.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > I can't sleep, so I wrote this: > > http://random.madisonave.ca > > Hope someone finds it entertaining. :) Madi, that's totally pointless. I LOVE it ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 13:00:51 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:00:51 -0400 Subject: A time waster/distraction In-Reply-To: <4A4057BB.2030805-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3F34BA.9040006@alteeve.com> <4A4057BB.2030805@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <4A40D203.9060804@alteeve.com> David J Patrick wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> I can't sleep, so I wrote this: >> >> http://random.madisonave.ca >> >> Hope someone finds it entertaining. :) > > Madi, that's totally pointless. > > I LOVE it ! > djp lol! Thanks David. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 13:28:45 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:28:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor Message-ID: Expensive, but big discount. $899.00 (nominally a $700 discount) These are not to everyones taste. I like mine (an earlier model). Requires a recent video card (dual link DVI). 2560x1600 http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=222-7175 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 13:51:02 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 06:51:02 -0700 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> Also, for those that want a bigger screen with less resolution: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4642653&csid=_21 I got one of these in the 42" model, which I use as my TV (no internal tuner but a VCR works) and also with a PC for some games/DIVX/etc. Picture quality is good, and my only beef (other than the first one arriving a bit damaged and being replaced) is that it tends to seem a bit "warm" in terms of heat output. But I suppose that might be expected from a company that makes nuclear reactors as a primary brand... where's my fission-powered TV? On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:28 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Expensive, but big discount. $899.00 (nominally a $700 discount) > These are not to everyones taste. ?I like mine (an earlier model). > Requires a recent video card (dual link DVI). > 2560x1600 > > http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=222-7175 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 13:55:33 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 06:55:33 -0700 Subject: A time waster/distraction In-Reply-To: <4A40D203.9060804-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3F34BA.9040006@alteeve.com> <4A4057BB.2030805@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A40D203.9060804@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906230655s5b81da9fkc25e0a902c0fded6@mail.gmail.com> In the area of randomness, does anyone know of any good URL's for a random picture/wallpaper/etc? Something that's a script that loads an image directly, so I can feed it into a background rotator app for KDE/gnome. On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: >> >> Madison Kelly wrote: >>> >>> I can't sleep, so I wrote this: >>> >>> http://random.madisonave.ca >>> >>> Hope someone finds it entertaining. :) >> >> Madi, that's totally pointless. >> >> I LOVE it ! >> djp > > lol! > > Thanks David. :) > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 14:43:57 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:43:57 -0400 Subject: A time waster/distraction In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906230655s5b81da9fkc25e0a902c0fded6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3F34BA.9040006@alteeve.com> <4A4057BB.2030805@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A40D203.9060804@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0906230655s5b81da9fkc25e0a902c0fded6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A40EA2D.6070303@alteeve.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > In the area of randomness, does anyone know of any good URL's for a > random picture/wallpaper/etc? > Something that's a script that loads an image directly, so I can feed > it into a background rotator app for KDE/gnome. I should be able to adapt my script to do that fairly easily. Mind if I give it a go? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 14:54:36 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:54:36 -0700 Subject: NAS, RAID, and Linux Message-ID: <3a97ef0906230754h2ef2ce9asd7856ded3f91856f@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone here have an recommendations along the following lines (in order of importance) * NAS drive enclosure * Linux-friendly * 1GB/s+ transfer (1x1GB or dual/bonded) * Reliable * RAID-1 * RAID-5 (if >2 disks) * Convenient size * Somewhat low power consumption * Reads drives up to 1.5TB+ * Runs Linux and/or accessible via SSH (sshfs) * Data encryption * Printserver * Additional eSATA port(s) * Additonal USB port(s) So far the contenders are (and anyone who can chime in who has experience with these, please do): * a QNAP TS209-2 or TS409 storage device. I found one place that sells these near Toronto, and plenty on eBay http://www.btecanada.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=QNAP (more known vendors in the TO area welcome) * a DROBO NAS http://www.drobo.com/products/drobo.php * Custom hardware (mini-ITX box, recommendations?) running FreeNAS http://www.freenas.org -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 14:54:42 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:54:42 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Also, for those that want a bigger screen with less resolution: > > http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4642653&csid=_21 > > I got one of these in the 42" model, which I use as my TV (no internal > tuner but a VCR works) and also with a PC for some games/DIVX/etc. > Picture quality is good, and my only beef (other than the first one > arriving a bit damaged and being replaced) is that it tends to seem a > bit "warm" in terms of heat output. But I suppose that might be > expected from a company that makes nuclear reactors as a primary > brand... where's my fission-powered TV? > Do you know if this is interlaced or non-interlaced? Is it 60Hz or 120? Could be just what I want. Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 14:55:29 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:55:29 -0400 Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> <20090619191609.GS18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090622131913.GU18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090623145529.GX18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 04:18:21PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I consider it quite sensible. Remember, C evolved from a "typeless" > language, B (which evolved from BCPL, a typeless variant of CPL). > Everything was a machine word. "int" was how this was spelled in C. > > "int" is the type to be used when you don't have any reason to demand > special properties. Yet I suspect most programmers assume they know what they are getting when they ask for int. They certainly tend not to remember that they might only be getting 16 bits. > It is true that LP64 rather than ILP64 was adopted by most > implementations. See > http://www.unix.org/version2/whatsnew/lp64_wp.html > and > http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-help/2009-02/msg00030.html > (The first place I noticed this discussion and terminology was in the > C Standards working paper 92-038 from 1992 April 1 (oops). It seemed > to recommend ILP64, but certainly not as a requirement.) > > At the root, this was for the pragmatic reason that it made old C > programs work more often. On the other hand, it was neither in the > Spirit of C, nor did it maximize the benefit of the transition to > 64-bit. > > This was particularly sad on the Alpha, the first version of which > didn't even have partial word instructions (if I rememeber correctly). > > The trade off was: less short term pain for less long term gain. > > I will admit that the change of dynamic range from 16-bit to 32-bit > was way more important than the change from 32 to 64. Certainly. > That is a sin. C structs are not correctly used for layout. Well if you are talking to hardware in a driver, you need to do things somehow. I have seen quite a few drivers use a struct to map onto the hardware registers, although I haven't ever done it that way myself (probably haven't written a driver for a complex enough device yet). > Sure, but that's not the issue. Subrange specification of integral > types is actually simpler than the weird integral-type mixed-up > partial order and easier to implement. > - simpler to specify sanely > - simpler for the programmer to understand > - simpler to handle syntactically. > - fewer keywords > - fewer symbols to define in > - simpler to write portable code. Well C is just vaguely portable assembly after all. > Quiz: does char promote to int or unsigned int? I would guess it promotes to whichever matches the system's signed'ness of char. So unsigned on arm, signed on i386 (on linux that is). No idea though. > One reason that it is easy to assume that addition is commutative is > that it is associative if the hardware silently wraps on overflow, and > that is what most hardware does these days. > > BTW, I have written IBM/360 assembly programs where I could decide > what to do with overflow: ignore or trap. I found that trapping was > the best choice because most overflows detected actual errors. Certainly a good idea. > Just as silent buffer overflow has lead to bugs in C code, some with > security implications, silent integer overflow has lead to bugs and > vulnerabilities. Makes sense yes. I have encountered problems with: somefloat = someint / someotherint; Doesn't do what one might hope it would do. C = gun pointed at foot. Very easy to shoot yourself in the foot. > My first public exploit (1976, I'd guess) was based on undetected > integer overflow. > > No, the case presupposes hardware that already does it. I'm not > demanding such hardware, only talking about how to deal with it. Well I certainly don't think C deals with it. Hopefully some languages do. > The point is that the programmer can cause the efficient-but-risky > code to be generated, even if it isn't the default behaviour. Well that's fair I suppose. > That isn't modern, that is broken. The C standard does not support > such usage, nor should it. The modern use of C is to get the types > right (and the C standard tries to provide the necessary types). People do lots of stupid things. Like some early Mac developers that decided to store type information in the unused 8 bits of their 32bit address pointers on the 68000 based machines even though Apple said "Don't ever do that they are reserved for future use", and then the 68020 based machines came out and the code when splat. > Linus can require that of the environment in which the kernel lives. Hmm, well I guess so. I prefer to store addresses in pointer types personally. > Why would you want this feature? Would intptr_t satisfy that > requirement? Probably. > That attitude would have left us stuck with PDP-11 representations: > char 8 > short 16 > int 16 > long 32 Well Linux doesn't run on anything smaller than 32bit, so that's what they used for int, and then long 32 or 64bit (with long long being always 64bit I believe, unless there are systems that handle 128bit types) The C standard types do seem like a better idea if you care about the size of your types. Probably also makes for clearer code to read. int8_t is hard to misunderstand. > I can tell you that folks learned lessons on cleaner coding during > each transition. The main ones seem to have been: > PDP-11 => IBM/370, GE635 > PDP-11 => VAX > DOS => Win32 (? I wasn't involved) DOS => Win16 => Win32? Amazingly they are still having trouble going to Win64. You would think they would have figured it out by now. > VAX => 68k (different endian) > 68k => i386 (different endian) > => Alpha, itanium SPARC64 (almost all stayed at 32, I think), PPC 64, > i386 => x86_64. Certainly a lot of linux code was cleaned up by the alpha port due to the 64bit versus 32bit changes. I don't remember which was the first big endian port of linux. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 14:50:58 2009 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:50:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: NAS, RAID, and Linux In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906230754h2ef2ce9asd7856ded3f91856f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230754h2ef2ce9asd7856ded3f91856f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6536.192.168.20.1.1245768658.squirrel@nray.ca> The Thecus 1U4500 is a rackmount unit that has everything except ssh access. Stephen On Tue, June 23, 2009 10:54, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Does anyone here have an recommendations along the following lines (in > order of importance) > > * NAS drive enclosure > * Linux-friendly > * 1GB/s+ transfer (1x1GB or dual/bonded) > * Reliable > * RAID-1 > * RAID-5 (if >2 disks) > * Convenient size > * Somewhat low power consumption > * Reads drives up to 1.5TB+ > * Runs Linux and/or accessible via SSH (sshfs) > * Data encryption > * Printserver > * Additional eSATA port(s) > * Additonal USB port(s) > > > > So far the contenders are (and anyone who can chime in who has > experience with these, please do): > > * a QNAP TS209-2 or TS409 storage device. I found one place that sells > these near Toronto, and plenty on eBay > http://www.btecanada.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=QNAP > (more known vendors in the TO area welcome) > > > * a DROBO NAS > http://www.drobo.com/products/drobo.php > > > * Custom hardware (mini-ITX box, recommendations?) running FreeNAS > http://www.freenas.org > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (778) 890-0942 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 14:59:36 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:59:36 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090623145936.GY18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 09:28:45AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Expensive, but big discount. $899.00 (nominally a $700 discount) > These are not to everyones taste. I like mine (an earlier model). > Requires a recent video card (dual link DVI). > 2560x1600 > > http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=222-7175 Nice screen, but yes it only runs 1280x800 and 2560x1600. No other resolutions are possible. And only one input which is dual link DVI as you said (single link DVI only gives 1280x800 support). The 3008 model rather than 3007 (which is what is on sale) has lots of inputs and a built in scaler and handles lots of resolutions, although it still looks best at 2560x1600 of course. Great price for a 30" LCD monitor though. I think I will stick with my 2408WFP for $429 though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 15:04:19 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:04:19 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <4A40ECB2.9050207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090623150419.GZ18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:54:42AM -0400, Stephen wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Also, for those that want a bigger screen with less resolution: >> >> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4642653&csid=_21 >> >> I got one of these in the 42" model, which I use as my TV (no internal >> tuner but a VCR works) and also with a PC for some games/DIVX/etc. >> Picture quality is good, and my only beef (other than the first one >> arriving a bit damaged and being replaced) is that it tends to seem a >> bit "warm" in terms of heat output. But I suppose that might be >> expected from a company that makes nuclear reactors as a primary >> brand... where's my fission-powered TV? >> > Do you know if this is interlaced or non-interlaced? > > Is it 60Hz or 120? > > Could be just what I want. There are pretty much no 120Hz compatible displays yet. Very very few exist. Lots of screens do frame interprolation from 30 or 60Hz to 120Hz for display, but they only acept 60Hz in. So no 3D video support yet, since that requires a real 120Hz input. Viewsonic just showed off some 120Hz DLP projectors with 3D support, and samsung has some displays too, and I think Mitsubishi has some DLP 120Hz displays as well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 15:05:33 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:05:33 -0400 Subject: NAS, RAID, and Linux In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906230754h2ef2ce9asd7856ded3f91856f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230754h2ef2ce9asd7856ded3f91856f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090623150533.GA18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 07:54:36AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Does anyone here have an recommendations along the following lines (in > order of importance) > > * NAS drive enclosure > * Linux-friendly > * 1GB/s+ transfer (1x1GB or dual/bonded) 1Gbit/s or 1GByte/s? > * Reliable > * RAID-1 > * RAID-5 (if >2 disks) > * Convenient size > * Somewhat low power consumption > * Reads drives up to 1.5TB+ > * Runs Linux and/or accessible via SSH (sshfs) > * Data encryption > * Printserver > * Additional eSATA port(s) > * Additonal USB port(s) > > > So far the contenders are (and anyone who can chime in who has > experience with these, please do): > > * a QNAP TS209-2 or TS409 storage device. I found one place that sells > these near Toronto, and plenty on eBay > http://www.btecanada.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=QNAP > (more known vendors in the TO area welcome) > > * a DROBO NAS > http://www.drobo.com/products/drobo.php > > * Custom hardware (mini-ITX box, recommendations?) running FreeNAS > http://www.freenas.org -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 15:17:40 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:17:40 -0700 Subject: NAS, RAID, and Linux In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906230754h2ef2ce9asd7856ded3f91856f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230754h2ef2ce9asd7856ded3f91856f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906230817u727c1f1am87e03c8c58a9f558@mail.gmail.com> Replying to myself, but here's the address for QNAP's site http://www.qnap.com/ On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Does anyone here have an recommendations along the following lines (in > order of importance) > > * NAS drive enclosure > * Linux-friendly > * 1GB/s+ transfer (1x1GB or dual/bonded) > * Reliable > * RAID-1 > * RAID-5 (if >2 disks) > * Convenient size > * Somewhat low power consumption > * Reads drives up to 1.5TB+ > * Runs Linux and/or accessible via SSH (sshfs) > * Data encryption > * Printserver > * Additional eSATA port(s) > * Additonal USB port(s) > > > So far the contenders are (and anyone who can chime in who has > experience with these, please do): > > * a QNAP TS209-2 or TS409 storage device. I found one place that sells > these near Toronto, and plenty on eBay > http://www.btecanada.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=QNAP > (more known vendors in the TO area welcome) > > * a DROBO NAS > http://www.drobo.com/products/drobo.php > > * Custom hardware (mini-ITX box, recommendations?) running FreeNAS > http://www.freenas.org > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (778) 890-0942 > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 15:37:20 2009 From: asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Asaf Maruf) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:37:20 -0400 Subject: NAS, RAID, and Linux In-Reply-To: <6536.192.168.20.1.1245768658.squirrel-wtWqQT8woy8@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230754h2ef2ce9asd7856ded3f91856f@mail.gmail.com> <6536.192.168.20.1.1245768658.squirrel@nray.ca> Message-ID: <49e826e90906230837t2b257289x2ba9f11752f4f39@mail.gmail.com> Openfiler.com provides a decent Linux based NAS with good manageability. Provides targets for iscsi as well as FC. The software is open source, runs on COTS. Asaf On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > The Thecus 1U4500 is a rackmount unit that has everything except ssh > access. > > Stephen > > On Tue, June 23, 2009 10:54, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > Does anyone here have an recommendations along the following lines (in > > order of importance) > > > > * NAS drive enclosure > > * Linux-friendly > > * 1GB/s+ transfer (1x1GB or dual/bonded) > > * Reliable > > * RAID-1 > > * RAID-5 (if >2 disks) > > * Convenient size > > * Somewhat low power consumption > > * Reads drives up to 1.5TB+ > > * Runs Linux and/or accessible via SSH (sshfs) > > * Data encryption > > * Printserver > > * Additional eSATA port(s) > > * Additonal USB port(s) > > > > > > > > So far the contenders are (and anyone who can chime in who has > > experience with these, please do): > > > > * a QNAP TS209-2 or TS409 storage device. I found one place that sells > > these near Toronto, and plenty on eBay > > > http://www.btecanada.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=QNAP > > (more known vendors in the TO area welcome) > > > > > > * a DROBO NAS > > http://www.drobo.com/products/drobo.php > > > > > > * Custom hardware (mini-ITX box, recommendations?) running FreeNAS > > http://www.freenas.org > > > > > > -- > > Tyler Aviss > > Systems Support > > LPIC/LPIC-2 > > (778) 890-0942 > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > -- > Stephen W. Clarke > Marketing and Communications Officer > Nray Services Inc. > 56A Head Street > Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 > CANADA > > (905) 627-1302 x14 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- twitter.com/asaf LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/asafmaruf Henny Youngman - "I told the doctor I broke my leg in two places. He told me to quit going to those places." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 15:52:12 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:52:12 -0700 Subject: NAS, RAID, and Linux In-Reply-To: <6536.192.168.20.1.1245768658.squirrel-wtWqQT8woy8@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230754h2ef2ce9asd7856ded3f91856f@mail.gmail.com> <6536.192.168.20.1.1245768658.squirrel@nray.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906230852k590a10b5t606da9604da6cba2@mail.gmail.com> This would be for home use, so in this case it would be something in more of a "cube" design than a rackmount. Actually, a forgotten factor that I should include would be noise output in that case too :-) On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:50 AM, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > The Thecus 1U4500 is a rackmount unit that has everything except ssh access. > > Stephen > > On Tue, June 23, 2009 10:54, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Does anyone here have an recommendations along the following lines (in >> order of importance) >> >> * NAS drive enclosure >> * Linux-friendly >> * 1GB/s+ transfer (1x1GB or dual/bonded) >> * Reliable >> * RAID-1 >> * RAID-5 (if >2 disks) >> * Convenient size >> * Somewhat low power consumption >> * Reads drives up to 1.5TB+ >> * Runs Linux and/or accessible via SSH (sshfs) >> * Data encryption >> * Printserver >> * Additional eSATA port(s) >> * Additonal USB port(s) >> >> >> >> So far the contenders are (and anyone who can chime in who has >> experience with these, please do): >> >> * a QNAP TS209-2 or TS409 storage device. I found one place that sells >> these near Toronto, and plenty on eBay >> http://www.btecanada.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=QNAP >> ?(more known vendors in the TO area welcome) >> >> >> * a DROBO NAS >> http://www.drobo.com/products/drobo.php >> >> >> * Custom hardware (mini-ITX box, recommendations?) running FreeNAS >> http://www.freenas.org >> >> >> -- >> Tyler Aviss >> Systems Support >> LPIC/LPIC-2 >> (778) 890-0942 >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > > > -- > Stephen W. Clarke > Marketing and Communications Officer > Nray Services Inc. > 56A Head Street > Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 > CANADA > > (905) 627-1302 x14 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 15:59:42 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:59:42 -0700 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <4A40ECB2.9050207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> The "HDTV" resolution is 1080p, so I'd assume the VGA would also be non-interlaced. Not sure about the refresh, but I don't think that there are many 120Hz LCD's out there. There's a spec sheet here: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/westinghouse-vm-47f140s/4507-6482_7-32787771.html?tag=mncol;rnav Interestingly, it says that the "supported computer resolutions" only go up to 1024x768, but that must be through component or something of the like because my 42" definitely goes to full-res. Internal fission reactor not included. On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Stephen wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> Also, for those that want a bigger screen with less resolution: >> >> >> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4642653&csid=_21 >> >> I got one of these in the 42" model, which I use as my TV (no internal >> tuner but a VCR works) and also with a PC for some games/DIVX/etc. >> Picture quality is good, and my only beef (other than the first one >> arriving a bit damaged and being replaced) is that it tends to seem a >> bit "warm" in terms of heat output. But I suppose that might be >> expected from a company that makes nuclear reactors as a primary >> brand... where's my fission-powered TV? >> > > Do you know if this is interlaced or non-interlaced? > > Is it 60Hz or 120? > > Could be just what I want. > > Thanks > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 18:07:07 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:07:07 -0700 Subject: OT: Credit Card charges after original invoice Message-ID: <3a97ef0906231107g312d48cbs2ae74830e5bbfadf@mail.gmail.com> About a month ago, I ordered a HD monitor (basically an HDTV without the tuner) from TigerDirect. The original invoice included the shipping costs ($0) and PST/GST, which I authorized for purchase and was charged to my Visa. One month later, I received an email from TD stating: Your order shipped on 6/22/2009 and is on its way to you MONITOR (LCD OR CRT) DISPOSAL SURCHARGE (CA BCDS 008 CA ) This charge was not on mentioned my original invoice, nor did I authorize it to my card. While companies are required in various cases to charge a "disposal fee" for certain electronics, standard practice is to either include it in the price, or charge it in the original invoice. TD argues that if I had returned the TV, they wouldn't be able to return a gov't fee, so they charge it later Can anyone comment as to whether charging it a month later is legal if not included in the original invoice. Seems to me that Visa is probably going to have them for lunch for an unauthorized charge, and the competition bureau is probably going to look dimly on this as well (as not listing total costs on the original invoice could possibly be deemed anticompetitive). Comments, suggestions? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 18:23:14 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:23:14 -0400 Subject: drawing shapes in gimp? Message-ID: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> hey there, I need to draw a simple picture, a five-pointed star on a monocolor background. What would be the best way for me to this in gimp or some other program? I guess i can draw lines freehand, and then bucket fill, but the whole reason for doing this on the computer is to make the image look symmetrical, and this seems a rather imprcise and finicky way to achieve that goal. Anyway, if anyone has suggestions, or can walk me through -- I missed the GIMP TLUG session (again!) and now thoroughly wish i hadn't. thx, matt -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 18:27:51 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:27:51 -0400 Subject: OT: Credit Card charges after original invoice In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906231107g312d48cbs2ae74830e5bbfadf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906231107g312d48cbs2ae74830e5bbfadf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Can anyone comment as to whether charging it a month later is legal if > not included in the original invoice. Seems to me that Visa is > probably going to have them for lunch for an unauthorized charge, and > the competition bureau is probably going to look dimly on this as well > (as not listing total costs on the original invoice could possibly be > deemed anticompetitive). > Seems mighty inappropriate to me; whether that implies it being illegal or "anticompetitive" is quite another matter. This points to a useful service, namely to have single-transaction/single-vendor credit card numbers. Thus, your credit granting agency would give you a (quasi)unique credit card number only usable with a single vendor/transaction. That would nicely "cut off" this sort of nonsense. If you have a vendor you don't notably trust, they get a "credit card number" that expires immediately after they charge you. Several US institutions have offered this: - AMEX "Private Payment" - Citibank "Virtual Account Numbers" - Discover "Secure Online Account Numbers" - Bank of America, MBNA, Chase There don't seem to be any Canadian institutions offering this. Oddly enough, there's a relevant link at a putatively Linux-related site: http://www.linuxfortravelers.com/virtual-account-numbers There is, by the way, one regrettable "exploit," namely that if the account is expired, vendors mayn't be able to give you refunds in case of trouble... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html P. J. O'Rourke - "If government were a product, selling it would be illegal." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 18:52:48 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:52:48 -0400 Subject: OT: Credit Card charges after original invoice In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906231107g312d48cbs2ae74830e5bbfadf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906231107g312d48cbs2ae74830e5bbfadf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090623145248.82ec909c.tleslie@tcn.net> its not illegal, but you have every right to argue it, and get a refund, if you didn't auth it, if the CC corp, feels you are being unreasonable, they will ban you, or put you on a ban list (possibly), but I am sure you will sense when it gets that lop-sided, and perhaps stop pursuing it. -tl On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:07:07 -0700 Tyler Aviss wrote: > About a month ago, I ordered a HD monitor (basically an HDTV without > the tuner) from TigerDirect. The original invoice included the > shipping costs ($0) and PST/GST, which I authorized for purchase and > was charged to my Visa. One month later, I received an email from TD > stating: > Your order shipped on 6/22/2009 and is on its way to you > MONITOR (LCD OR CRT) DISPOSAL SURCHARGE (CA BCDS 008 CA ) > > This charge was not on mentioned my original invoice, nor did I > authorize it to my card. While companies are required in various cases > to charge a "disposal fee" for certain electronics, standard practice > is to either include it in the price, or charge it in the original > invoice. TD argues that if I had returned the TV, they wouldn't be > able to return a gov't fee, so they charge it later > > Can anyone comment as to whether charging it a month later is legal if > not included in the original invoice. Seems to me that Visa is > probably going to have them for lunch for an unauthorized charge, and > the competition bureau is probably going to look dimly on this as well > (as not listing total costs on the original invoice could possibly be > deemed anticompetitive). > > Comments, suggestions? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 18:50:01 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:50:01 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4123D9.1060408@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > The "HDTV" resolution is 1080p, so I'd assume the VGA would also be > non-interlaced. Not sure about the refresh, but I don't think that > there are many 120Hz LCD's out there. > According to the manual, my Sharp Aquos LC-42D65U 42" set will support up to 1600 x 1200 @ 60 Hz. It can do 1080p, so I'd imagine it would do so in progressive scan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 19:26:32 2009 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OT: Credit Card charges after original invoice Message-ID: <989589.16388.qm@web110810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> If they were supposed to charge you and you were supposed to pay the fee (legal requirement), then you will end up paying in "full", whether in 1, 2, or more payments until the "sale transaction" is complete. But, it's a bit odd, I must admit. You could argue to your bank (the gull of those guys to charge you a month later, and so on...), but I doubt you'll win. --William --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Tyler Aviss wrote: > From: Tyler Aviss > Subject: [TLUG]: OT: Credit Card charges after original invoice > To: "tlug" > Received: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 2:07 PM > About a month ago, I ordered a HD > monitor (basically an HDTV without > the tuner) from TigerDirect. The original invoice included > the > shipping costs ($0) and PST/GST, which I authorized for > purchase and > was charged to my Visa. One month later, I received an > email from TD > stating: > ? Your order shipped on 6/22/2009 and is on its way to > you > ? MONITOR (LCD OR CRT) DISPOSAL SURCHARGE? (CA > BCDS 008 CA ) > > This charge was not on mentioned my original invoice, nor > did I > authorize it to my card. While companies are required in > various cases > to charge a "disposal fee" for certain electronics, > standard practice > is to either include it in the price, or charge it in the > original > invoice. TD argues that if I had returned the TV, they > wouldn't be > able to return a gov't fee, so they charge it later > > Can anyone comment as to whether charging it a month later > is legal if > not included in the original invoice. Seems to me that Visa > is > probably going to have them for lunch for an unauthorized > charge, and > the competition bureau is probably going to look dimly on > this as well > (as not listing total costs on the original invoice could > possibly be > deemed anticompetitive). > > Comments, suggestions? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 19:31:49 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: drawing shapes in gimp? In-Reply-To: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> References: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, Matt Price wrote: > hey there, > > I need to draw a simple picture, a five-pointed star on a monocolor > background. What would be the best way for me to this in gimp or some > other program? $ cat star.ps %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0 %%BoundingBox: 0 0 70 70 .7 .2 .2 setrgbcolor 20 0 moveto 5 { 50 50 rlineto 144 rotate } repeat fill $ convert -trim star.ps star.png -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 19:58:37 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:58:37 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <4A4123D9.1060408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4123D9.1060408@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090623195837.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 02:50:01PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: > > The "HDTV" resolution is 1080p, so I'd assume the VGA would also be > > non-interlaced. Not sure about the refresh, but I don't think that > > there are many 120Hz LCD's out there. > > > > According to the manual, my Sharp Aquos LC-42D65U 42" set will support > up to 1600 x 1200 @ 60 Hz. It can do 1080p, so I'd imagine it would do > so in progressive scan. Must look awful. After all scaling/stretching 1600x1200 to 1920x1080 is not going to be pretty. I don't know why TV makers can't just make the computer input identify as a 1920x1080 display with 60hz refresh. Well most seem to be able to do that, a few get it terribly wrong. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 20:00:20 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:00:20 -0700 Subject: OT: Credit Card charges after original invoice In-Reply-To: <989589.16388.qm-XyciXz+oX7g/JfqJOfUXs/u2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <989589.16388.qm@web110810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906231300l5cb72470gdd5a3f7f6eb7866f@mail.gmail.com> Yup, but one should also be invoiced for the total bill amount at the time of purchase. It's not really an issue of them charging me the fee, but rather that they never gave any notice of the fee at the time the item was purchased. Simply solved by adding a line to the invoice like: ITEM Government Environmental **fee: $20.00 PST GST ** To be charged after a period of one month, provided item is not returned to seller. or even a line Government Environmental fees to be assessed and charged at a later date To charge a fee that was never indicated in the original sales agreement, and one month later... very sketchy. What if they started doing this for sales tax and/or shipping to under-represent the actual cost of a purchase. It seems especially dubious when other merchants have the mandated recycling fees included in the cost, much like the CD-levy etc at many retailers. If the retailer does charge the levy seperately, it's presented in the total at the cashier/invoice before you pay (alongside taxes, etc) - TJA On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:26 PM, William Park wrote: > > If they were supposed to charge you and you were supposed > to pay the fee (legal requirement), then you will end up paying in "full", whether in 1, 2, or more payments until > the "sale transaction" is complete. > > But, it's a bit odd, I must admit. ?You could argue to your > bank (the gull of those guys to charge you a month later, and so on...), but I doubt you'll win. > > --William > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> From: Tyler Aviss >> Subject: [TLUG]: OT: Credit Card charges after original invoice >> To: "tlug" >> Received: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 2:07 PM >> About a month ago, I ordered a HD >> monitor (basically an HDTV without >> the tuner) from TigerDirect. The original invoice included >> the >> shipping costs ($0) and PST/GST, which I authorized for >> purchase and >> was charged to my Visa. One month later, I received an >> email from TD >> stating: >> ? Your order shipped on 6/22/2009 and is on its way to >> you >> ? MONITOR (LCD OR CRT) DISPOSAL SURCHARGE? (CA >> BCDS 008 CA ) >> >> This charge was not on mentioned my original invoice, nor >> did I >> authorize it to my card. While companies are required in >> various cases >> to charge a "disposal fee" for certain electronics, >> standard practice >> is to either include it in the price, or charge it in the >> original >> invoice. TD argues that if I had returned the TV, they >> wouldn't be >> able to return a gov't fee, so they charge it later >> >> Can anyone comment as to whether charging it a month later >> is legal if >> not included in the original invoice. Seems to me that Visa >> is >> probably going to have them for lunch for an unauthorized >> charge, and >> the competition bureau is probably going to look dimly on >> this as well >> (as not listing total costs on the original invoice could >> possibly be >> deemed anticompetitive). >> >> Comments, suggestions? >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. >> Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 >> columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > ? ? ?__________________________________________________________________ > Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 20:12:32 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:12:32 -0700 Subject: OT: Credit Card charges after original invoice In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906231300l5cb72470gdd5a3f7f6eb7866f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <989589.16388.qm@web110810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <3a97ef0906231300l5cb72470gdd5a3f7f6eb7866f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906231312j2af59d0co4443c3476b291cb5@mail.gmail.com> To put this in another perspective, let's say that this purchase was not for myself, but for my employer, and it's something like 50 LCD monitors, but I'll use the same dates as the purchase and new invoice * On May 9 I go online, select to order 50 monitors, and print off the final invoice which includes the item cost, shipping, and taxes * I present this invoice to my manager, and he approves it * I then proceed to put the charges on my card * The monitors arrive, I submit the invoice to accounting * I leave the company, and collect my final paycheque + reimbursement. * On June 22nd, I receive a NEW invoice, stating I have "purchased" a monitor disposal fee. If I had been purchasing 50 monitors, this would probably have been several hundred dollars. So what happens now. I was never presented with the charges, never presented them to my employer and/or had them authorized, and I've since left the company. Perhaps I was fired, who knows, but either way it's a very suspicious charge. But the fact is that NOBODY was ever presented with these charges at the time of purchase, nor agreed to put them on my card. There is a reason why people get an invoice at the time of/just before purchase... On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Yup, but one should also be invoiced for the total bill amount at the > time of purchase. It's not really an issue of them charging me the > fee, but rather that they never gave any notice of the fee at the time > the item was purchased. > > Simply solved by adding a line to the invoice like: > > ? ?ITEM > ? ?Government Environmental **fee: $20.00 > ? ?PST > ? ?GST > > > ** To be charged after a period of one month, provided item is not > returned to seller. > > or even a line > ?Government Environmental fees to be assessed and charged at a later date > > > To charge a fee that was never indicated in the original sales > agreement, and one month later... very sketchy. What if they started > doing this for sales tax and/or shipping to under-represent the actual > cost of a purchase. > > It seems especially dubious when other merchants have the mandated > recycling fees included in the cost, much like the CD-levy etc at many > retailers. If the retailer does charge the levy seperately, it's > presented in the total at the cashier/invoice before you pay > (alongside taxes, etc) > > > - TJA > > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:26 PM, William Park wrote: >> >> If they were supposed to charge you and you were supposed >> to pay the fee (legal requirement), then you will end up paying in "full", whether in 1, 2, or more payments until >> the "sale transaction" is complete. >> >> But, it's a bit odd, I must admit. ?You could argue to your >> bank (the gull of those guys to charge you a month later, and so on...), but I doubt you'll win. >> >> --William >> >> --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >>> From: Tyler Aviss >>> Subject: [TLUG]: OT: Credit Card charges after original invoice >>> To: "tlug" >>> Received: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 2:07 PM >>> About a month ago, I ordered a HD >>> monitor (basically an HDTV without >>> the tuner) from TigerDirect. The original invoice included >>> the >>> shipping costs ($0) and PST/GST, which I authorized for >>> purchase and >>> was charged to my Visa. One month later, I received an >>> email from TD >>> stating: >>> ? Your order shipped on 6/22/2009 and is on its way to >>> you >>> ? MONITOR (LCD OR CRT) DISPOSAL SURCHARGE? (CA >>> BCDS 008 CA ) >>> >>> This charge was not on mentioned my original invoice, nor >>> did I >>> authorize it to my card. While companies are required in >>> various cases >>> to charge a "disposal fee" for certain electronics, >>> standard practice >>> is to either include it in the price, or charge it in the >>> original >>> invoice. TD argues that if I had returned the TV, they >>> wouldn't be >>> able to return a gov't fee, so they charge it later >>> >>> Can anyone comment as to whether charging it a month later >>> is legal if >>> not included in the original invoice. Seems to me that Visa >>> is >>> probably going to have them for lunch for an unauthorized >>> charge, and >>> the competition bureau is probably going to look dimly on >>> this as well >>> (as not listing total costs on the original invoice could >>> possibly be >>> deemed anticompetitive). >>> >>> Comments, suggestions? >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. >>> Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 >>> columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> >> ? ? ?__________________________________________________________________ >> Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/ >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (778) 890-0942 > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 20:19:34 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:19:34 -0700 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <20090623195837.GB18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4123D9.1060408@rogers.com> <20090623195837.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906231319wc5b4f08p10b7b7e3deb84564@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 02:50:01PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> Tyler Aviss wrote: >> > The "HDTV" resolution is 1080p, so I'd assume the VGA would also be >> > non-interlaced. Not sure about the refresh, but I don't think that >> > there are many 120Hz LCD's out there. >> > >> >> According to the manual, my Sharp Aquos LC-42D65U 42" set will support >> up to 1600 x 1200 @ 60 Hz. ?It can do 1080p, so I'd imagine it would do >> so in progressive scan. > > Must look awful. ?After all scaling/stretching 1600x1200 to 1920x1080 > is not going to be pretty. ?I don't know why TV makers can't just make > the computer input identify as a 1920x1080 display with 60hz refresh. > > Well most seem to be able to do that, a few get it terribly wrong. > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > 1600x1200 = 4:3 1920x1080 = 16:9 Two common videographic aspect ratios are 4:3 (1.33:1), universal for standard-definition video formats, and 16:9 (1.78:1), universal to high-definition television and European digital television. What's the standard for a DVD, and/or does it vary depending on how it's translated from the film version? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 20:21:08 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:21:08 -0700 Subject: A time waster/distraction In-Reply-To: <4A40EA2D.6070303-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3F34BA.9040006@alteeve.com> <4A4057BB.2030805@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A40D203.9060804@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0906230655s5b81da9fkc25e0a902c0fded6@mail.gmail.com> <4A40EA2D.6070303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906231321o125eae33see4f0d7c029af478@mail.gmail.com> Not at all. If it's a perl script it could probably be adapted to some fun plugins for gnome/kde. Maybe we could point it at icanhazcheeseburger.com and have rotating lolcats for all the lolcat lovers out there :-) On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> In the area of randomness, does anyone know of any good URL's for a >> random picture/wallpaper/etc? >> Something that's a script that loads an image directly, so I can feed >> it into a background rotator app for KDE/gnome. > > I should be able to adapt my script to do that fairly easily. Mind if I give > it a go? > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 20:21:14 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <20090622130927.GT18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> <20090622130927.GT18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Use the profile instead of bashrc. bashrc is used for both > interactive and non interactive sessions, while profile should > only be interactive. I believe what make difference is not whether the shell interactive or not, but whether the shell is a login shell or not. Furthermore it is not that bashrc is run in both cases, just many distribution have the profile to run bashrc. -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 20:27:39 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:27:39 -0700 Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906231327l524751c9p9c4b146f507614e6@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Fri, 19 Jun 2009, Marc Lanctot wrote: > >> So what I'd like to do is detect if the session is an xterm/console, or >> through interactive ssh.. and output the calendar in these cases but >> not in cases where I scp or execute a command remotely. >> >> Can I do this? If so, how? > > I change my prompt based on whether I am logged in under X or not: > > ? ? ? ?case $TERM in > ? ? ? ?xterm) > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Cyan prompt, host, tty & date in xterm title (36 denotes > cyan) > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?export PS1='\[\033]2;\H:\l (\d > \t)\007\[\033[36m\]\h:\w\$\[\033[m\]' > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?;; > ? ? ? ?*) > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Cyan prompt, time printed in top right hand corner (36 > denotes cyan) > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?export PS1='\[`tput sc;tput cup 0 71`\t`tput > rc`\]\[\033[36m\]\h:\w\$\[\033[m\] ' > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?;; > ? ? ? ?esac > > I only use xterm, not any of the other terminal apps. > > Rob > > -- > I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Out of curiosity, would $TERM have a value if you're SCP'ing? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 20:32:43 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:32:43 -0400 Subject: A time waster/distraction In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906231321o125eae33see4f0d7c029af478-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3F34BA.9040006@alteeve.com> <4A4057BB.2030805@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A40D203.9060804@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0906230655s5b81da9fkc25e0a902c0fded6@mail.gmail.com> <4A40EA2D.6070303@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0906231321o125eae33see4f0d7c029af478@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A413BEB.9030002@utoronto.ca> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Not at all. If it's a perl script it could probably be adapted to some > fun plugins for gnome/kde. > Maybe we could point it at icanhazcheeseburger.com and have rotating > lolcats for all the lolcat lovers out there :-) http://feeds.feedburner.com/ICanHasCheezburger -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 20:33:23 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:33:23 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906231319wc5b4f08p10b7b7e3deb84564-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4123D9.1060408@rogers.com> <20090623195837.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0906231319wc5b4f08p10b7b7e3deb84564@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A413C13.201@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Lennart > Sorensen wrote: > >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 02:50:01PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> >>> Tyler Aviss wrote: >>> >>>> The "HDTV" resolution is 1080p, so I'd assume the VGA would also be >>>> non-interlaced. Not sure about the refresh, but I don't think that >>>> there are many 120Hz LCD's out there. >>>> >>>> >>> According to the manual, my Sharp Aquos LC-42D65U 42" set will support >>> up to 1600 x 1200 @ 60 Hz. It can do 1080p, so I'd imagine it would do >>> so in progressive scan. >>> >> Must look awful. After all scaling/stretching 1600x1200 to 1920x1080 >> is not going to be pretty. I don't know why TV makers can't just make >> the computer input identify as a 1920x1080 display with 60hz refresh. >> >> Well most seem to be able to do that, a few get it terribly wrong. >> I've never hooked up a computer to it, so I have no idea how it'll look or if it will take 1920x1080. Those specs listed were for the computer monitor input connector. I imagine 1920x1080p should work fine via an HDMI input. Of course, that would require a DVI or HDMI connector on the computer. > > > 1600x1200 = 4:3 > 1920x1080 = 16:9 > > Two common videographic aspect ratios are 4:3 (1.33:1), universal for > standard-definition video formats, and 16:9 (1.78:1), universal to > high-definition television and European digital television. > > What's the standard for a DVD, and/or does it vary depending on how > it's translated from the film version? > It's a definite "that depends". Some DVDs will display wide screen on a wide screen set or letterbox on a standard set. Other DVDs assume there's no such thing as wide screen and displays full screen on a standard set and "pillars" on a wide screen set. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 20:34:32 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:34:32 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906231319wc5b4f08p10b7b7e3deb84564-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4123D9.1060408@rogers.com> <20090623195837.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0906231319wc5b4f08p10b7b7e3deb84564@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090623203432.GC18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 01:19:34PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Lennart > Sorensen wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 02:50:01PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> > The "HDTV" resolution is 1080p, so I'd assume the VGA would also be > >> > non-interlaced. Not sure about the refresh, but I don't think that > >> > there are many 120Hz LCD's out there. > >> > > >> > >> According to the manual, my Sharp Aquos LC-42D65U 42" set will support > >> up to 1600 x 1200 @ 60 Hz. ?It can do 1080p, so I'd imagine it would do > >> so in progressive scan. > > > > Must look awful. ?After all scaling/stretching 1600x1200 to 1920x1080 > > is not going to be pretty. ?I don't know why TV makers can't just make > > the computer input identify as a 1920x1080 display with 60hz refresh. > > > > Well most seem to be able to do that, a few get it terribly wrong. > > -- > > Len Sorensen > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > 1600x1200 = 4:3 > 1920x1080 = 16:9 Right, so trying to mash a 4:3 image onto a 16:9 display is just stupid. > Two common videographic aspect ratios are 4:3 (1.33:1), universal for > standard-definition video formats, and 16:9 (1.78:1), universal to > high-definition television and European digital television. > > What's the standard for a DVD, and/or does it vary depending on how > it's translated from the film version? It varies, and some DVD players let you output widescreen in which case the dvd player will simply remove some of the black bars on a wide screen movie. I believe the movie is actually sotred widescreen without the black bars at all, and the correct aspect ratio is stored in the data and the DVD player adds those bars on playback depending on its configuration. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 20:36:46 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:36:46 -0400 Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> <20090622130927.GT18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090623203646.GD18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 04:21:14PM -0400, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Use the profile instead of bashrc. bashrc is used for both >> interactive and non interactive sessions, while profile should only be >> interactive. > > I believe what make difference is not whether the shell interactive or > not, but whether the shell is a login shell or not. Furthermore it is not > that bashrc is run in both cases, just many distribution have the profile > to run bashrc. According to 'man bash' interactive or not matters just as much. .bash_profile also has different behaviour than .profile. So use the right filename for the job. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 20:37:23 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:37:23 -0400 Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906231327l524751c9p9c4b146f507614e6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> <3a97ef0906231327l524751c9p9c4b146f507614e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090623203723.GE18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 01:27:39PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Out of curiosity, would $TERM have a value if you're SCP'ing? It could. A better question would be 'Do I have a tty'. -- Len SOrensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 20:52:42 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:52:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Console/SSH/X: How to tell? In-Reply-To: <20090623203646.GD18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090619153640.22849905@gravid> <20090622130927.GT18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090623203646.GD18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > According to 'man bash' interactive or not matters just as > much. According here: http://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bashref.html#Bash-Startup-Files The file ~/.bash_profile will be run regardless interactivity if it is a login shell. The file ~/.bashrc should be run only for interactive non-login shell. If it is non-interactive, non-login, then neither profile nor bashrc should be run. -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 21:16:39 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:16:39 -0700 Subject: A time waster/distraction In-Reply-To: <4A413BEB.9030002-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3F34BA.9040006@alteeve.com> <4A4057BB.2030805@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A40D203.9060804@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0906230655s5b81da9fkc25e0a902c0fded6@mail.gmail.com> <4A40EA2D.6070303@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0906231321o125eae33see4f0d7c029af478@mail.gmail.com> <4A413BEB.9030002@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906231416o5b0b10e1ob0c46f07ac4eac85@mail.gmail.com> Hmm. Translating an RSS feed to a picture-puller shouldn't be too hard. Easier (and more polite) than a screen-scraper too. Thanks :-) On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> Not at all. If it's a perl script it could probably be adapted to some >> fun plugins for gnome/kde. >> Maybe we could point it at icanhazcheeseburger.com and have rotating >> lolcats for all the lolcat lovers out there :-) > > http://feeds.feedburner.com/ICanHasCheezburger > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 21:41:07 2009 From: trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (cameron lord) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:41:07 -0400 Subject: Port 80? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I already did, it still says apache, i hoked up my winxp laptop (sucks) to my swiches listen port, i have an intrusion problem o.O i found that when i run Wireshark i see TONNNS of data comming from my networked storage unit to, 99.243.63.182(AXCellsecure.trieocorp.e6a2ffi6ad.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) which is fine, its my isp assinged ip adderss, but when i look at the same addr on the computer it was given to , i have no traffic, and the data only flows when the the computer at my location is off. Also when i listen on my Firebox watchgaurd i see no traffic except for pings and dchp ack, and my vnc server, someone is bypassing one of the most advanced hardware firewalls ever! The data i found comming out of my cable modem is all going to 125.16.27.50,and then is being served to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx, whichisnt very helpfull at all. so far theyve downloaded 2.5 TB of my data and i cant stop them, i need to have my server online at all times! cameron lord; Axcellsecure > Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:49:22 -0400 > From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Port 80? > > On Mon, 22 Jun 2009, cameron lord wrote: > > > > > I have a problem, i run Mepis Light on a laptop of mine in a network, > > and i cant get any internet anymore on it, it says my laptop is already > > using Port 80 for apache, but i dont have apache installed. All my other > > systems based on Debain have now done this too, and i cant just re-image > > them! help?? > > Hi Cameron. Run netstat -tanp | grep LISTEN as root and look to see what > process has port 80 open. You can then locate the relevant startup script > and shut it down. > > You may wish to run rkhunter as "mysterious" open ports *can* be > indicative of an intrusion but more often there is a mundane explanation. > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666046 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 21:55:16 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:55:16 -0400 Subject: Port 80? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7c50d3570906231455p3eda97ebs332e585b424082e4@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:41, cameron lord wrote: > I already did, it still says?apache, i hoked up my winxp laptop (sucks) to > my swiches listen port, i have an intrusion problem o.O i found that when i > run Wireshark i see TONNNS of data comming from my networked storage unit > to, 99.243.63.182(AXCellsecure.trieocorp.e6a2ffi6ad.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) which > is fine, its my isp assinged ip adderss, but when i look at the same addr > on?the computer?it was given to?, i have no traffic, and the data only flows > when the the computer at my location is off. Also when i listen on my > Firebox?watchgaurd i see no traffic except for pings and?dchp ack, and my > vnc server, someone is bypassing one of the most advanced hardware firewalls > ever! The data i found comming out of my cable modem is all going to > 125.16.27.50,and then is being served to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx, whichisnt very > helpfull at all. so?far theyve downloaded 2.5 TB of my data and i cant stop > them, i need to have my server online at all times! > > > cameron lord; Axcellsecure > It appears that you're being hacked by someone in Hyderabad, India: Hostname: 125.16.27.50 ISP: Bharti Broadband Organization: PROKARMA SOFTECH PVT LTD Proxy: None detected Type: Cable/DSL Of course, they may be using that ISP's servers to route to your server, so they could be anywhere. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 21:55:47 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:55:47 -0400 Subject: DNSSEC-bis problem, politics or technical? Message-ID: Hello Pals, Looked at DNSSEC recently and it really look like it can be going somewhere finally. Not sure though, but it seems like most of the technical problems at least have finally been ironed out. Ok, I will hedge that and say I would not mind to be corrected. Now, I was curious how the political side of it is shaping up and I can only see discussion before the new USA government, read a little dated. There is serious fear that DNSSEC would finally allow the governments - specifically USA government to have control over the Internet - that is, if they end up being the trustee to the root key signing key (KSK). After thinking about it, I do agree its a problem, but can not think of any alternative that look better. Has there been any agreement on this issue or is there someone here in the know of what will likely be the be the compromise. One last question, it look like other than Window 7 and Linux (Not sure if all distro, but aware that fedora 11 has dnssec capable resolver), will it ever be possible to back port these new resolvers to the old install base? For example to XP or RHEL 5. It may take too long for there to be heavy use of dnssec if this never happen. Anyway would be happy to see discussion on this, especially if someone has experience with it Regards, William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 22:05:35 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:05:35 -0400 Subject: A time waster/distraction In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906231416o5b0b10e1ob0c46f07ac4eac85-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3F34BA.9040006@alteeve.com> <4A4057BB.2030805@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A40D203.9060804@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0906230655s5b81da9fkc25e0a902c0fded6@mail.gmail.com> <4A40EA2D.6070303@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0906231321o125eae33see4f0d7c029af478@mail.gmail.com> <4A413BEB.9030002@utoronto.ca> <3a97ef0906231416o5b0b10e1ob0c46f07ac4eac85@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4151AF.5000907@utoronto.ca> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hmm. Translating an RSS feed to a picture-puller shouldn't be too > hard. Easier (and more polite) than a screen-scraper too. Thanks :-) Here: #!/usr/bin/python import urllib2 import xml.dom.minidom as DOM i = [] can = 'http://feeds.feedburner.com/ICanHasCheezburger' has = urllib2.urlopen(can).readlines() cheez = DOM.parseString(''.join(has)) ichcb_url = 'http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com' for burger in cheez.getElementsByTagName('media:content'): burger = burger.attributes.get('url').value if burger.startswith(ichcb_url): i.append(burger) for ICanHasCheezburger in i: print ICanHasCheezburger -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 23 23:15:32 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:15:32 -0700 Subject: A time waster/distraction In-Reply-To: <4A4151AF.5000907-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3F34BA.9040006@alteeve.com> <4A4057BB.2030805@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A40D203.9060804@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0906230655s5b81da9fkc25e0a902c0fded6@mail.gmail.com> <4A40EA2D.6070303@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0906231321o125eae33see4f0d7c029af478@mail.gmail.com> <4A413BEB.9030002@utoronto.ca> <3a97ef0906231416o5b0b10e1ob0c46f07ac4eac85@mail.gmail.com> <4A4151AF.5000907@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Wow, I was actually commenting that it shouldn't be hard for me to figure out, not that I was expecting somebody else to do the work. Thankee, perhaps regular amusing backgrounds may help push my GF to use her Linux desktop more often (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 23-Jun-09, at 3:05 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Hmm. Translating an RSS feed to a picture-puller shouldn't be too >> hard. Easier (and more polite) than a screen-scraper too. Thanks :-) > > Here: > > #!/usr/bin/python > > import urllib2 > import xml.dom.minidom as DOM > > i = [] > can = 'http://feeds.feedburner.com/ICanHasCheezburger' > has = urllib2.urlopen(can).readlines() > cheez = DOM.parseString(''.join(has)) > > ichcb_url = 'http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com' > > for burger in cheez.getElementsByTagName('media:content'): > burger = burger.attributes.get('url').value > if burger.startswith(ichcb_url): > i.append(burger) > > for ICanHasCheezburger in i: > print ICanHasCheezburger > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 02:16:29 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:16:29 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <20090623203432.GC18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4123D9.1060408@rogers.com> <20090623195837.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0906231319wc5b4f08p10b7b7e3deb84564@mail.gmail.com> <20090623203432.GC18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A418C7D.9040007@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 01:19:34PM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Lennart >> Sorensen wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 02:50:01PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >>> >>>> Tyler Aviss wrote: >>>> >>>>> The "HDTV" resolution is 1080p, so I'd assume the VGA would also be >>>>> non-interlaced. Not sure about the refresh, but I don't think that >>>>> there are many 120Hz LCD's out there. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> According to the manual, my Sharp Aquos LC-42D65U 42" set will support >>>> up to 1600 x 1200 @ 60 Hz. It can do 1080p, so I'd imagine it would do >>>> so in progressive scan. >>>> >>> Must look awful. After all scaling/stretching 1600x1200 to 1920x1080 >>> is not going to be pretty. I don't know why TV makers can't just make >>> the computer input identify as a 1920x1080 display with 60hz refresh. >>> >>> Well most seem to be able to do that, a few get it terribly wrong. >>> -- >>> Len Sorensen >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >>> >> 1600x1200 = 4:3 >> 1920x1080 = 16:9 >> > > Right, so trying to mash a 4:3 image onto a 16:9 display is just stupid. > > >> Two common videographic aspect ratios are 4:3 (1.33:1), universal for >> standard-definition video formats, and 16:9 (1.78:1), universal to >> high-definition television and European digital television. >> >> What's the standard for a DVD, and/or does it vary depending on how >> it's translated from the film version? >> > > It varies, and some DVD players let you output widescreen in which case > the dvd player will simply remove some of the black bars on a wide screen > movie. I believe the movie is actually sotred widescreen without the > black bars at all, and the correct aspect ratio is stored in the data and > the DVD player adds those bars on playback depending on its configuration. > > While my Blu-ray player does that, my DVD player doesn't. When watching a wide screen movie on a wide screen set, I have to use stretch mode to get it to display properly. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 04:47:37 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 00:47:37 -0400 Subject: drawing shapes in gimp? In-Reply-To: References: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> Message-ID: <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 15:31 -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, Matt Price wrote: > > > hey there, > > > > I need to draw a simple picture, a five-pointed star on a monocolor > > background. What would be the best way for me to this in gimp or some > > other program? > > $ cat star.ps > %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0 > %%BoundingBox: 0 0 70 70 > .7 .2 .2 setrgbcolor > 20 0 moveto > 5 { 50 50 rlineto 144 rotate } repeat fill > $ convert -trim star.ps star.png ah. very nice. so now you're telling me that to draw, i need to learn postscript? that was NOT what i wanted to hear... still very cool. having trouble understnading what's going on, though. suppose i want the picture 5 times as big? i guess i can scale it in gimp -- though now i try it out, that doesn't seem trivial to do. and if i want to generate the initial picture with one point going straight up? these pics are just slightly off to the side, i guess about 10 degrees. again, i can rotate in gimp... but it'd be nice if the script just did it perfectly, wouldn't it. any chance you could explain what you're doing here a bit more fully? anyway, thanks very much, this is very interesting. matt > -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 05:01:22 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: drawing shapes in gimp? Message-ID: <326052.22867.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I wonder are there any plug-ins for GIMP that allow for drawing, surely someone else might have wanted to do draw (on pictures) besides matt or myself? Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Matt Price wrote: > From: Matt Price > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: drawing shapes in gimp? > To: tlug at ss.org > Received: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 12:47 AM > > On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 15:31 -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson > wrote: > > On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, Matt Price wrote: > > > > > hey there, > > > > > > I need to draw a simple picture, a five-pointed > star on a monocolor > > > background.? What would be the best way for > me to this in gimp or some > > > other program? > > > > $ cat star.ps > > %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0 > > %%BoundingBox: 0 0 70 70 > > .7 .2 .2 setrgbcolor > > 20 0 moveto > > 5 { 50 50 rlineto 144 rotate } repeat fill > > $ convert -trim star.ps star.png > > ah.? very nice.? so now you're telling me that to > draw, i need to learn > postscript?? that was NOT what i wanted to > hear...? still very cool. > having trouble understnading what's going on, though.? > suppose i want > the picture 5 times as big?? i guess i can scale it in > gimp -- though > now i try it out, that doesn't seem trivial to do.? > and if i want to > generate the initial picture with one point going straight > up?? these > pics are just slightly off to the side, i guess about 10 > degrees. > again, i can rotate in gimp...? but it'd be nice if > the script just did > it perfectly, wouldn't it.? any chance you could > explain what you're > doing here a bit more fully? > > anyway, thanks very much, this is very interesting. > > matt > > > > > > -- > Matt Price > matt..price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 05:16:44 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 01:16:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: drawing shapes in gimp? In-Reply-To: <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> References: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Jun 2009, Matt Price wrote: > > On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 15:31 -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, Matt Price wrote: > > > > > hey there, > > > > > > I need to draw a simple picture, a five-pointed star on a monocolor > > > background. What would be the best way for me to this in gimp or some > > > other program? > > > > $ cat star.ps > > %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0 > > %%BoundingBox: 0 0 70 70 > > .7 .2 .2 setrgbcolor > > 20 0 moveto > > 5 { 50 50 rlineto 144 rotate } repeat fill > > $ convert -trim star.ps star.png > > ah. very nice. so now you're telling me that to draw, i need to learn > postscript? that was NOT what i wanted to hear... still very cool. > having trouble understnading what's going on, though. suppose i want > the picture 5 times as big? %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0 %%BoundingBox: 0 0 350 350 5 5 scale -9 rotate .7 .2 .2 setrgbcolor 13 2 moveto 5 { 50 50 rlineto 144 rotate } repeat fill > i guess i can scale it in gimp -- though > now i try it out, that doesn't seem trivial to do. Image -> Scale Image -> Width 350 (But you'll get a much better result scaling it in postscript. > and if i want to > generate the initial picture with one point going straight up? See above. > these > pics are just slightly off to the side, i guess about 10 degrees. > again, i can rotate in gimp... but it'd be nice if the script just did > it perfectly, wouldn't it. any chance you could explain what you're > doing here a bit more fully? %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0 %% Magic number etc. %%BoundingBox: 0 0 350 350 %% Outer limits of the image 5 5 scale %% scale x and y by a factor of 5 -9 rotate %% rotate the canvas by -9 degrees .7 .2 .2 setrgbcolor %% set the RGB values 13 2 moveto %% move 13 pts along x axis, 2 up the y axis 5 { %% set N 50 50 rlineto %% draw a line from the current point %% to a point 50 pixels along both axes 144 rotate %% rotate the aspect 144 degrees } repeat %% do it N times fill %% fill the figure with the current colour -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 05:18:16 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: drawing shapes in gimp? Message-ID: <318944.94419.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Would this plug-in help? http://registry.gimp.org/node/59 You will have to figure out how to install a plug-in, I think the instruction are on the page...I'm still trying to learn the basic of GIMP, got past image resizing though =P Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > From: Rajinder Yadav > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: drawing shapes in gimp? > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:01 AM > > I wonder are there any plug-ins for GIMP that allow for > drawing, surely someone else might have wanted to do draw > (on pictures) besides matt or myself? > > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Matt Price > wrote: > > > From: Matt Price > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: drawing shapes in gimp? > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Received: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 12:47 AM > > > > On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 15:31 -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson > > wrote: > > > On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, Matt Price wrote: > > > > > > > hey there, > > > > > > > > I need to draw a simple picture, a > five-pointed > > star on a monocolor > > > > background.? What would be the best way > for > > me to this in gimp or some > > > > other program? > > > > > > $ cat star.ps > > > %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0 > > > %%BoundingBox: 0 0 70 70 > > > .7 .2 .2 setrgbcolor > > > 20 0 moveto > > > 5 { 50 50 rlineto 144 rotate } repeat fill > > > $ convert -trim star.ps star.png > > > > ah.? very nice.? so now you're telling me that to > > draw, i need to learn > > postscript?? that was NOT what i wanted to > > hear...? still very cool. > > having trouble understnading what's going on, > though.? > > suppose i want > > the picture 5 times as big?? i guess i can scale it > in > > gimp -- though > > now i try it out, that doesn't seem trivial to do.? > > and if i want to > > generate the initial picture with one point going > straight > > up?? these > > pics are just slightly off to the side, i guess about > 10 > > degrees. > > again, i can rotate in gimp...? but it'd be nice if > > the script just did > > it perfectly, wouldn't it.? any chance you could > > explain what you're > > doing here a bit more fully? > > > > anyway, thanks very much, this is very interesting. > > > > matt > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Matt Price > > matt..price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below > 80 > > columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > ? ? ? > __________________________________________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving > junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.? > Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or > register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 05:26:14 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: build configure script error Message-ID: <79005.96921.qm@web111208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I am trying to build cairo from tarbar source but when I run the configure script I keep getting the following error: configure: error: Cairo requires at least one native font backend. Please install FreeType and fontconfig and try again. I have both the font backend installed. I even went and rebuilt them (again) from source and was able to build each successfully. Yet! cairo config script keeps barfing out, still. Anyone here know what I might have to do? Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 05:31:04 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 01:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: build configure script error In-Reply-To: <79005.96921.qm-LGZSB/hsMXIP4eY3Ra60wvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <79005.96921.qm@web111208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I am trying to build cairo from tarbar source but when I run the configure script I keep getting the following error: > > configure: error: Cairo requires at least one native font backend. Please install FreeType and fontconfig and try again. > > I have both the font backend installed. I even went and rebuilt them (again) from source and was able to build each successfully. Yet! cairo config script keeps barfing out, still. > > Anyone here know what I might have to do? You probably need to install the -devel versions of those packages so that configure can find the header files. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 12:10:51 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:10:51 -0400 Subject: Today's Deal; ASUS N10Jc-A1 @ $499 Message-ID: <4A4217CB.3080205@alteeve.com> Continuing the recent tradition of sharing good deals: http://infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=438112 That's the Eee's big brother, HDMI, fingerprint reader and such. $300 off. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 12:14:14 2009 From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:14:14 -0400 Subject: drawing shapes in gimp? In-Reply-To: <326052.22867.qm-LGZSB/hsMXJ+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <326052.22867.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Why don't you just use Inkscape or Tux Paint. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:01 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > I wonder are there any plug-ins for GIMP that allow for drawing, surely > someone else might have wanted to do draw (on pictures) besides matt or > myself? > > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Matt Price wrote: > > > From: Matt Price > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: drawing shapes in gimp? > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Received: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 12:47 AM > > > > On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 15:31 -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson > > wrote: > > > On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, Matt Price wrote: > > > > > > > hey there, > > > > > > > > I need to draw a simple picture, a five-pointed > > star on a monocolor > > > > background. What would be the best way for > > me to this in gimp or some > > > > other program? > > > > > > $ cat star.ps > > > %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0 > > > %%BoundingBox: 0 0 70 70 > > > .7 .2 .2 setrgbcolor > > > 20 0 moveto > > > 5 { 50 50 rlineto 144 rotate } repeat fill > > > $ convert -trim star.ps star.png > > > > ah. very nice. so now you're telling me that to > > draw, i need to learn > > postscript? that was NOT what i wanted to > > hear... still very cool. > > having trouble understnading what's going on, though. > > suppose i want > > the picture 5 times as big? i guess i can scale it in > > gimp -- though > > now i try it out, that doesn't seem trivial to do. > > and if i want to > > generate the initial picture with one point going straight > > up? these > > pics are just slightly off to the side, i guess about 10 > > degrees. > > again, i can rotate in gimp... but it'd be nice if > > the script just did > > it perfectly, wouldn't it. any chance you could > > explain what you're > > doing here a bit more fully? > > > > anyway, thanks very much, this is very interesting. > > > > matt > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Matt Price > > matt..price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. > > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > > columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the > boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to > New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Myles Braithwaite me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ Please consider the trees before print this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 12:15:29 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:15:29 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <20090623195837.GB18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4123D9.1060408@rogers.com> <20090623195837.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A4218E1.9060307@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 02:50:01PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >>> The "HDTV" resolution is 1080p, so I'd assume the VGA would also be >>> non-interlaced. Not sure about the refresh, but I don't think that >>> there are many 120Hz LCD's out there. >>> >>> >> According to the manual, my Sharp Aquos LC-42D65U 42" set will support >> up to 1600 x 1200 @ 60 Hz. It can do 1080p, so I'd imagine it would do >> so in progressive scan. >> > > Must look awful. After all scaling/stretching 1600x1200 to 1920x1080 > is not going to be pretty. I don't know why TV makers can't just make > the computer input identify as a 1920x1080 display with 60hz refresh. > > Well most seem to be able to do that, a few get it terribly wrong. > > As I mentioned in another post, that applies to the computer monitor input. HDMI is still available for 1080p, should your computer support it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 14:50:22 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:50:22 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <4A418C7D.9040007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4123D9.1060408@rogers.com> <20090623195837.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0906231319wc5b4f08p10b7b7e3deb84564@mail.gmail.com> <20090623203432.GC18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A418C7D.9040007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090624145021.GF18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:16:29PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > While my Blu-ray player does that, my DVD player doesn't. When watching > a wide screen movie on a wide screen set, I have to use stretch mode to > get it to display properly. Well I have seen DVD players that support widescreen output. Many do not. Some even send something in the signal to tell a good TV what aspect ratio to use for that signal. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 14:51:44 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:51:44 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <4A4218E1.9060307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4123D9.1060408@rogers.com> <20090623195837.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A4218E1.9060307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090624145143.GG18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 08:15:29AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > As I mentioned in another post, that applies to the computer monitor > input. HDMI is still available for 1080p, should your computer support it. Of course, although some TVs have even got errors in their HDMI that make computers get the resolution wrong. I don't think that is very common though. Good thing DVI to HDMI is a trivial adaption though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 14:53:05 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:53:05 -0400 Subject: drawing shapes in gimp? In-Reply-To: References: <326052.22867.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A423DD1.8040801@linuxcaffe.ca> Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Why don't you just use Inkscape or Tux Paint. yes, it sounds like you are trying to do scalable vector graphics in the raster graphic application. Use inkscape. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 14:56:41 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:56:41 -0400 Subject: Today's Deal; ASUS N10Jc-A1 @ $499 In-Reply-To: <4A4217CB.3080205-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A4217CB.3080205@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090624145641.GH18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 08:10:51AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Continuing the recent tradition of sharing good deals: > > http://infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=438112 > > That's the Eee's big brother, HDMI, fingerprint reader and such. > > $300 off. I am trying to figure out in what way that is a big brother to the EEEpc, given most EEEpcs these days are 10" as well, use the same CPU, same ram, same disk, etc. I haven't seen the fingerprint scanner on an eeepc yet, nor the HDMI, on the other hand no bluetooth might annoy some people. Seems like a good deal, or at least it brings the price down to where the eeepcs with about the same specs are at. It looks like it might have nvidia 9300 graphics instead of just the intel, which would be very different than any of the eeepcs. Same with the gigabit ethernet port. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 14:58:09 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:58:09 -0400 Subject: build configure script error In-Reply-To: <79005.96921.qm-LGZSB/hsMXIP4eY3Ra60wvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <79005.96921.qm@web111208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090624145808.GI18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:26:14PM -0700, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I am trying to build cairo from tarbar source but when I run the configure script I keep getting the following error: > > configure: error: Cairo requires at least one native font backend. Please install FreeType and fontconfig and try again. > > I have both the font backend installed. I even went and rebuilt them (again) from source and was able to build each successfully. Yet! cairo config script keeps barfing out, still. > > Anyone here know what I might have to do? Are the header files for those libs installed in the standard locations? Did you check the config.log to see tha actual error? Configure scripts can be totally stupid sometimes by failing one test due to assuming something else they didn't test. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 15:27:19 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:27:19 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <20090624145021.GF18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4123D9.1060408@rogers.com> <20090623195837.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0906231319wc5b4f08p10b7b7e3deb84564@mail.gmail.com> <20090623203432.GC18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A418C7D.9040007@rogers.com> <20090624145021.GF18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A4245D7.9050105@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:16:29PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> While my Blu-ray player does that, my DVD player doesn't. When watching >> a wide screen movie on a wide screen set, I have to use stretch mode to >> get it to display properly. >> > > Well I have seen DVD players that support widescreen output. Many do not. > Some even send something in the signal to tell a good TV what aspect > ratio to use for that signal. > > When such a DVD player sends a wide screen signal to the TV, does it actually produce a different signal or does it just tell the set to display in wide screen? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 15:34:05 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:34:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64 bit linux on Intel T9600 In-Reply-To: <20090623145529.GX18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7791.192.168.20.1.1245352974.squirrel@nray.ca> <4A3BA1E9.9060001@rogers.com> <4A3BA535.2020505@utoronto.ca> <20090619191609.GS18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090622131913.GU18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090623145529.GX18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | > Quiz: does char promote to int or unsigned int? | | I would guess it promotes to whichever matches the system's signed'ness | of char. So unsigned on arm, signed on i386 (on linux that is). | No idea though. On machines where sizeof(int) > sizeof(char), in other words, the vast majority, char (and its variants) promote to int. If char is unsigned and sizeof(int == sizeof(char), which is allowed, char promotes to unsigned int. Ditto for short, BTW. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 16:32:24 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Today's Deal; ASUS N10Jc-A1 @ $499 In-Reply-To: <20090624145641.GH18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4A4217CB.3080205@alteeve.com> <20090624145641.GH18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Jun 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 08:10:51AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > > Continuing the recent tradition of sharing good deals: > > > > http://infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=438112 > > > > That's the Eee's big brother, HDMI, fingerprint reader and such. > > > > $300 off. > > I am trying to figure out in what way that is a big brother to the > EEEpc, given most EEEpcs these days are 10" as well, use the same > CPU, same ram, same disk, etc. > > I haven't seen the fingerprint scanner on an eeepc yet, nor the > HDMI, on the other hand no bluetooth might annoy some people. > Seems like a good deal, or at least it brings the price down to > where the eeepcs with about the same specs are at. > > It looks like it might have nvidia 9300 graphics instead of just the > intel, which would be very different than any of the eeepcs. Same > with the gigabit ethernet port. nvidia? the specs clearly describe the intel GMA950. or are you talking about the stock eeepc? i know a lady who very much wants a netbook so she can stop dragging around her full-size laptop but she's out of town right now and that deal looks valid only for today. bummer. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 16:49:59 2009 From: trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (cameron lord) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:49:59 -0400 Subject: Port 80? In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570906231455p3eda97ebs332e585b424082e4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570906231455p3eda97ebs332e585b424082e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Michael, i think you right, but what should i do? I need my data server online at all times! My isp (rogers) cant block the ip address, they say they need it! I also cant stop the data flow, the NSD has no controls its just a piece of hardware! Help? > From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:55:16 -0400 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Port 80? > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:41, cameron lord wrote: > > I already did, it still says apache, i hoked up my winxp laptop (sucks) to > > my swiches listen port, i have an intrusion problem o.O i found that when i > > run Wireshark i see TONNNS of data comming from my networked storage unit > > to, 99.243.63.182(AXCellsecure.trieocorp.e6a2ffi6ad.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) which > > is fine, its my isp assinged ip adderss, but when i look at the same addr > > on the computer it was given to , i have no traffic, and the data only flows > > when the the computer at my location is off. Also when i listen on my > > Firebox watchgaurd i see no traffic except for pings and dchp ack, and my > > vnc server, someone is bypassing one of the most advanced hardware firewalls > > ever! The data i found comming out of my cable modem is all going to > > 125.16.27.50,and then is being served to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx, whichisnt very > > helpfull at all. so far theyve downloaded 2.5 TB of my data and i cant stop > > them, i need to have my server online at all times! > > > > > > cameron lord; Axcellsecure > > > > It appears that you're being hacked by someone in Hyderabad, India: > > Hostname: 125.16.27.50 > ISP: Bharti Broadband > Organization: PROKARMA SOFTECH PVT LTD > Proxy: None detected > Type: Cable/DSL > > Of course, they may be using that ISP's servers to route to your > server, so they could be anywhere. > > -- > Sincerely, > > Michael Lauzon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Create a cool, new character for your Windows Live? Messenger. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9656621 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 16:54:12 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:54:12 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <4A4245D7.9050105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4123D9.1060408@rogers.com> <20090623195837.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0906231319wc5b4f08p10b7b7e3deb84564@mail.gmail.com> <20090623203432.GC18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A418C7D.9040007@rogers.com> <20090624145021.GF18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A4245D7.9050105@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090624165411.GJ18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:27:19AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > When such a DVD player sends a wide screen signal to the TV, does it > actually produce a different signal or does it just tell the set to > display in wide screen? Well it would not generate the same amount of black bars at the top and bottom of the screen in the case of a widescreen DVD. So the signal would be different. The aspect ratio would be preserved, and rather than having the DVD add bars to the top and bottom and then have the widescreen TV add black bars to the left and right, you would end up with mostly picture on the screen. If the DVD player setup has an option for TV aspect ratio, then that would be it. Of course the TV has to not be set to stretch, since that just ruins all images you view. -- len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 17:00:39 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:00:39 -0400 Subject: Today's Deal; ASUS N10Jc-A1 @ $499 In-Reply-To: References: <4A4217CB.3080205@alteeve.com> <20090624145641.GH18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090624170039.GK18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:32:24PM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > nvidia? the specs clearly describe the intel GMA950. or are you > talking about the stock eeepc? > > i know a lady who very much wants a netbook so she can stop dragging > around her full-size laptop but she's out of town right now and that > deal looks valid only for today. bummer. The title of the page is: ASUS N10JC-A1 ATOM N270 XPHOME 1GB-DDR2,160G,NO ODD,CAMERA 10.2"WSVGA LED,GMA950+NV 9300M (N10JC-A1) I assume NV 9300M means nvidia 9300M video. Lots of reviews of that machine confirm that it has an nvidia 9300M video chip with 256MB ram. Apparently it is capable of decoding 720 and 1080p video as long as the playback software takes advantage of the nvidia video decoding hardware. That might also explain why it has an HDMI output. The 9300M isn't super fast, but it is way beyond what the GMA950 is capable off. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 17:12:06 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:12:06 -0400 Subject: Port 80? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570906231455p3eda97ebs332e585b424082e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A425E66.1060108@utoronto.ca> cameron lord wrote: > Michael, i think you right, but what should i do? > I need my data server online at all times! > My isp (rogers) cant block the ip address, > they say they need it! > I also cant stop the data flow, the NSD has no controls its just a piece > of hardware! > Help? Sounds like you have apache running as an open proxy. See http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/ProxyAbuse If that isn't the case, rkhunter and chkrootkit are 2 good tools to use as well. See what those report. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 17:15:22 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:15:22 -0400 Subject: drawing shapes in gimp? In-Reply-To: <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> References: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:47 AM, Matt Price wrote: > > On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 15:31 -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, Matt Price wrote: > > > > > hey there, > > > > > > I need to draw a simple picture, a five-pointed star on a monocolor > > > background. ?What would be the best way for me to this in gimp or some > > > other program? > > > > $ cat star.ps > > %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0 > > %%BoundingBox: 0 0 70 70 > > .7 .2 .2 setrgbcolor > > 20 0 moveto > > 5 { 50 50 rlineto 144 rotate } repeat fill > > $ convert -trim star.ps star.png > > ah. ?very nice. ?so now you're telling me that to draw, i need to learn > postscript? ?that was NOT what i wanted to hear... ?still very cool. > having trouble understnading what's going on, though. ?suppose i want > the picture 5 times as big? ?i guess i can scale it in gimp -- though > now i try it out, that doesn't seem trivial to do. ?and if i want to > generate the initial picture with one point going straight up? ?these > pics are just slightly off to the side, i guess about 10 degrees. > again, i can rotate in gimp... ?but it'd be nice if the script just did > it perfectly, wouldn't it. ?any chance you could explain what you're > doing here a bit more fully? Well, I think there's a lot to be said for the notion of using appropriate tools, and the contrasts available here are pretty stark... 1. The above Postcript file does the task in a file 125 bytes long, and it's not SO inscrutable that I'd expect it to completely scare off someone capable of installing and using Linux. 2. GIMP is a ~60MB application that wouldn't be notably easier to use for the purpose, because it's not notably good at vector graphics. 3. On the other hand, to process that Postscript file, you quite likely need Ghostscript, which isn't *that* much smaller than GIMP ;-). 4. I suspect you might rather use Inkscape. It only chews 10MB of space to install it ;-). And it has a "create star" icon that allows you to create, spin, and locate a star pretty easily in interactive fashion. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Casey Stengel ?- "All right everyone, line up alphabetically according to your height." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 18:27:02 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: build configure script error Message-ID: <435320.86395.qm@web111208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Chris, I took care of installing the devel pack for them, but since I also built them from source I would suspect 'make install' copied all the libs, header files, etc into the correct places (going by memory as I type): /usr/local/lib /usr/local/include I've even tired to set the CPPFLAGS and LDFLAGS to point there, still nothing. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > From: Chris F.A. Johnson > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: build configure script error > To: "[TLUG]" > Received: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 1:31 AM > On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, Rajinder Yadav > wrote: > > > I am trying to build cairo from tarbar source but when > I run the configure script I keep getting the following > error: > > > > configure: error: Cairo requires at least one native > font backend.? Please install FreeType and fontconfig > and try again. > > > > I have both the font backend installed. I even went > and rebuilt them (again) from source and was able to build > each successfully. Yet! cairo config script keeps barfing > out, still. > > > > Anyone here know what I might have to do? > > ???You probably need to install the -devel > versions of those packages > ???so that configure can find the header > files. > > -- > ???Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster? > ? ? ??? > ???=================================================================== > ???Author: > ???Shell Scripting Recipes: A > Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group..? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 18:33:46 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:33:46 -0400 Subject: build configure script error In-Reply-To: <435320.86395.qm-LGZSB/hsMXIP4eY3Ra60wvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <435320.86395.qm@web111208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090624143346.765346c2@gravid> On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I took care of installing the devel pack for them, but since I also > built them from source I would suspect 'make install' copied all the > libs, header files, etc into the correct places (going by memory as I > type): > > /usr/local/lib > /usr/local/include Raj, Isn't the prefix /usr by default? Depends on your distro, I think? > I've even tired to set the CPPFLAGS and LDFLAGS to point there, still > nothing. > Could you copy the output of tail -n 200 config.log to the list? ... Or to me personally if that's too heavy for the list. Thanks, Marc -- When someone says, "I want a programming language in which I need only say what I want done," give him a lollipop. -- Alan Perlis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 18:41:41 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:41:41 -0400 Subject: build configure script error In-Reply-To: <435320.86395.qm-LGZSB/hsMXIP4eY3Ra60wvu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <435320.86395.qm@web111208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090624144141.4ee6b875@gravid> On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > I took care of installing the devel pack for them, but since I also > built them from source I would suspect 'make install' copied all the > libs, header files, etc into the correct places (going by memory as I > type): Wait a sec -- if you installed the devel packages then you don't need to build them from source.. that's what installing the dev packages permit you to bypass. Normally, they get installed in the proper default locations (when installing the dev packages) so ./configure should find the right headers if you have them installed. Sometimes it doesn't, so you have to pass the appropriate --with-lib=/some/location (this is the "right" way to do it... that way the compiler+link flags are put right into the Makefile so you don't have to manually set CFLAGS and LDFLAGS). My guess is you still don't have the right header, which the output of config.log will reveal. With the missing header(s) we can determine which dev package you're missing or not pointing to properly. What distro are you doing this on? This could help us find the right dev packages.. some distros have a web service that find you the package given the specific file name. Marc -- When someone says, "I want a programming language in which I need only say what I want done," give him a lollipop. -- Alan Perlis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 18:53:48 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:53:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: build configure script error Message-ID: <940572.37214.qm@web111203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Len, I didn't know there was a config.log, will check to see if it will shed some light. I am wondering if pkg-config might be confused, will need to read up on this to figure out how it works. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > From: Lennart Sorensen > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: build configure script error > To: tlug at ss.org > Received: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:58 AM > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:26:14PM > -0700, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > I am trying to build cairo from tarbar source but when > I run the configure script I keep getting the following > error: > > > > configure: error: Cairo requires at least one native > font backend.? Please install FreeType and fontconfig > and try again. > > > > I have both the font backend installed. I even went > and rebuilt them (again) from source and was able to build > each successfully. Yet! cairo config script keeps barfing > out, still. > > > > Anyone here know what I might have to do? > > Are the header files for those libs installed in the > standard locations? > > Did you check the config.log to see tha actual error?? > Configure scripts > can be totally stupid sometimes by failing one test due to > assuming > something else they didn't test. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 20:22:25 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: build configure script error Message-ID: <626688.17136.qm@web111215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Marc, I agree with you that if I installed the devel pack then I should not have to build them from source, but getting desperate I tired everything I could think of at the time =) I am not sure why make install put the lib and include under /usr/local and not /usr I just noticed this when I did a search for the libs the most recent compiled version were found under /usr/local/ I will have to get you the logs tonight when I get home. The nice guys on ciaro mailing list totally ignored? snubber? my request, yet just right now I see they helped someone else with a compile error, stating that gmake is needs, if the person took the time to read the INSTALL note he would have know =P ... maybe I should reply to that thread and ask what he did to get past the config script...in fact I am going to do that just now ;) Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Marc Lanctot wrote: > From: Marc Lanctot > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: build configure script error > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 2:41 PM > On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:27:02 -0700 > (PDT) > Rajinder Yadav > wrote: > > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > I took care of installing the devel pack for them, but > since I also > > built them from source I would suspect 'make install' > copied all the > > libs, header files, etc into the correct places (going > by memory as I > > type): > > Wait a sec -- if you installed the devel packages then you > don't need > to build them from source.. that's what installing the dev > packages > permit you to bypass. > > Normally, they get installed in the proper default > locations (when > installing the dev packages) so ./configure should find the > right > headers if you have them installed. Sometimes it doesn't, > so you have > to pass the appropriate --with-lib=/some/location (this is > the "right" > way to do it... that way the compiler+link flags are put > right into the > Makefile so you don't have to manually set CFLAGS and > LDFLAGS). > > My guess is you still don't have the right header, which > the output of > config.log will reveal. > > With the missing header(s) we can determine which dev > package you're > missing or not pointing to properly. What distro are you > doing this > on? This could help us find the right dev packages.. some > distros have > a web service that find you the package given the specific > file name. > > Marc > > -- > When someone says, "I want a programming language in which > I need only > say what I want done," give him a lollipop. > ? -- Alan Perlis > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 20:32:16 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:32:16 -0400 Subject: build configure script error In-Reply-To: <626688.17136.qm-ocD5SZSfVax+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <626688.17136.qm@web111215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A428D50.1070009@utoronto.ca> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Hi Marc, > > I agree with you that if I installed the devel pack then I should not have to build them from source, but getting desperate I tired everything I could think of at the time =) > > I am not sure why make install put the lib and include under /usr/local and not /usr > > I just noticed this when I did a search for the libs the most recent compiled version were found under /usr/local/ > > I will have to get you the logs tonight when I get home. > > The nice guys on ciaro mailing list totally ignored? snubber? my request, yet just right now I see they helped someone else with a compile error, stating that gmake is needs, if the person took the time to read the INSTALL note he would have know =P ... maybe I should reply to that thread and ask what he did to get past the config script...in fact I am going to do that just now ;) > > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav I haven't really seen a configure script that points to /usr by default, /usr/local is pretty much always used as a prefix by default unless explicitly overridden. Also, check the output of ./configure --help, always, every time, before actually building something. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 24 21:17:32 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: build configure script error Message-ID: <303473.89251.qm@web111209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I got a reply this time from someone on the ciaro list. Just wondering if pkg-config doesn't find as suggest, how does one fix a pkg-config problem? <<--- Well first I'd check that pkg-config can find your freetype and fontconfig. For me the output of querying the version numbers of those packages gives this: $ pkg-config --modversion freetype2 9.18.3 $ pkg-config --modversion fontconfig 2.6.0 If pkg-config can't find the packages that's probably your problem and fixing that should put you on the right path. --->> Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Jamon Camisso wrote: > From: Jamon Camisso > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: build configure script error > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 4:32 PM > Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > Hi Marc, > > > > I agree with you that if I installed the devel pack > then I should not have to build them from source, but > getting desperate I tired everything I could think of at the > time =) > > > > I am not sure why make install put the lib and include > under /usr/local and not /usr > > > > I just noticed this when I did a search for the libs > the most recent compiled version were found under > /usr/local/ > > > > I will have to get you the logs tonight when I get > home. > > The nice guys on ciaro mailing list totally ignored? > snubber? my request, yet just right now I see they helped > someone else with a compile error, stating that gmake is > needs, if the person took the time to read the INSTALL note > he would have know =P ... maybe I should reply to that > thread and ask what he did to get past the config > script...in fact I am going to do that just now ;) > > > > Kind Regards, > > Rajinder Yadav > > I haven't really seen a configure script that points to > /usr by default,? /usr/local is pretty much always used > as a prefix by default unless explicitly overridden. Also, > check the output of ./configure --help, always, every time, > before actually building something. > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 00:35:01 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: build configure script error Message-ID: <308276.37598.qm@web111215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I was able to figure it out, seems like pkg-config was confused where to look. The config script worked after I typed the following: PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/local/lib export PKG_CONFIG_PATH I first compiled freetype2 and fontconfig from source to have the latest. Also learned a few other things from your responses, thanks again! Now, I can get to building gkt+, wxGTK and ultimately CodeBlock my C++ IDE =) Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > From: Rajinder Yadav > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: build configure script error > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 5:17 PM > > I got a reply this time from someone on the ciaro list. > Just wondering if pkg-config doesn't find as suggest, how > does one fix a pkg-config problem? > > <<--- > Well first I'd check that pkg-config can find your freetype > and > fontconfig.? For me the output of querying the version > numbers of > those packages gives this: > > $ pkg-config --modversion freetype2 > 9.18.3 > $ pkg-config --modversion fontconfig > 2.6.0 > > If pkg-config can't find the packages that's probably your > problem and > fixing that should put you on the right path. > --->> > > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Jamon Camisso > wrote: > > > From: Jamon Camisso > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: build configure script error > > To: tlug at ss.org > > Received: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 4:32 PM > > Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > > Hi Marc, > > > > > > I agree with you that if I installed the devel > pack > > then I should not have to build them from source, but > > getting desperate I tired everything I could think of > at the > > time =) > > > > > > I am not sure why make install put the lib and > include > > under /usr/local and not /usr > > > > > > I just noticed this when I did a search for the > libs > > the most recent compiled version were found under > > /usr/local/ > > > > > > I will have to get you the logs tonight when I > get > > home. > > > The nice guys on ciaro mailing list totally > ignored? > > snubber? my request, yet just right now I see they > helped > > someone else with a compile error, stating that gmake > is > > needs, if the person took the time to read the INSTALL > note > > he would have know =P ... maybe I should reply to > that > > thread and ask what he did to get past the config > > script...in fact I am going to do that just now ;) > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > Rajinder Yadav > > > > I haven't really seen a configure script that points > to > > /usr by default,? /usr/local is pretty much always > used > > as a prefix by default unless explicitly overridden. > Also, > > check the output of ./configure --help, always, every > time, > > before actually building something. > > > > Jamon > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below > 80 > > columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug..org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > ? ? ? > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and > bookmark your favourite sites.. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 01:14:11 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:14:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: drawing shapes in gimp? Message-ID: <900213.40110.qm@web111216.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I didn't know of these projects, now I do thanks! Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Myles Braithwaite wrote: > From: Myles Braithwaite > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: drawing shapes in gimp? > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:14 AM > Why don't you just use Inkscape or > Tux Paint. > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:01 AM, > Rajinder Yadav > wrote: > > > > I wonder are there any plug-ins for GIMP that allow for > drawing, surely someone else might have wanted to do draw > (on pictures) besides matt or myself? > > > > Kind Regards, > > Rajinder Yadav > > > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Matt Price > wrote: > > > > > From: Matt Price > > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: drawing shapes in gimp? > > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > Received: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 12:47 AM > > > > > > On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 15:31 -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson > > > wrote: > > > > On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, Matt Price wrote: > > > > > > > > > hey there, > > > > > > > > > > I need to draw a simple picture, a > five-pointed > > > star on a monocolor > > > > > background.? What would be the best way > for > > > me to this in gimp or some > > > > > other program? > > > > > > > > $ cat star.ps > > > > %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0 > > > > %%BoundingBox: 0 0 70 70 > > > > .7 .2 .2 setrgbcolor > > > > 20 0 moveto > > > > 5 { 50 50 rlineto 144 rotate } repeat fill > > > > $ convert -trim star.ps star.png > > > > > > ah.? very nice.? so now you're telling me that > to > > > draw, i need to learn > > > postscript?? that was NOT what i wanted to > > > hear...? still very cool. > > > having trouble understnading what's going on, > though.? > > > suppose i want > > > the picture 5 times as big?? i guess i can scale it > in > > > gimp -- though > > > now i try it out, that doesn't seem trivial to > do.? > > > and if i want to > > > generate the initial picture with one point going > straight > > > up?? these > > > pics are just slightly off to the side, i guess about > 10 > > > degrees. > > > again, i can rotate in gimp...? but it'd be nice > if > > > the script just did > > > it perfectly, wouldn't it.? any chance you could > > > explain what you're > > > doing here a bit more fully? > > > > > > anyway, thanks very much, this is very interesting. > > > > > > matt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Matt Price > > > matt..price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > > > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below > 80 > > > columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > > > > ? ? > ?__________________________________________________________________ > > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving > junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. ?Click on > Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for > free at http://mail.yahoo.ca > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > Myles Braithwaite > me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > http://mylesbraithwaite.com/ > > > Please consider the trees before print this email. > > __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 01:40:04 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:40:04 -0400 Subject: Port 80? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570906231455p3eda97ebs332e585b424082e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906241840gcc3eb4cwd963d0ed6eea3823@mail.gmail.com> I don't want to seem like a jerk, but if it's critical that it be up, and you can't fix it yourself, then it's probably worth paying somebody to give you a hand (not volunteering myself, but suggesting it as an option if this is time-critical). On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:49 PM, cameron lord wrote: > Michael, i think you right, but what should i do? > I need my data server online at all times! > My isp?(rogers) cant block the ip address, > they say they need it! > I also cant stop the data flow, the NSD has no controls its just a piece of > hardware! > Help? > >> From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org >> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:55:16 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Port 80? >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:41, cameron lord wrote: >> > I already did, it still says?apache, i hoked up my winxp laptop (sucks) >> > to >> > my swiches listen port, i have an intrusion problem o.O i found that >> > when i >> > run Wireshark i see TONNNS of data comming from my networked storage >> > unit >> > to, 99.243.63.182(AXCellsecure.trieocorp.e6a2ffi6ad.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) >> > which >> > is fine, its my isp assinged ip adderss, but when i look at the same >> > addr >> > on?the computer?it was given to?, i have no traffic, and the data only >> > flows >> > when the the computer at my location is off. Also when i listen on my >> > Firebox?watchgaurd i see no traffic except for pings and?dchp ack, and >> > my >> > vnc server, someone is bypassing one of the most advanced hardware >> > firewalls >> > ever! The data i found comming out of my cable modem is all going to >> > 125.16.27.50,and then is being served to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx, whichisnt very >> > helpfull at all. so?far theyve downloaded 2.5 TB of my data and i cant >> > stop >> > them, i need to have my server online at all times! >> > >> > >> > cameron lord; Axcellsecure >> > >> >> It appears that you're being hacked by someone in Hyderabad, India: >> >> Hostname: 125.16.27.50 >> ISP: Bharti Broadband >> Organization: PROKARMA SOFTECH PVT LTD >> Proxy: None detected >> Type: Cable/DSL >> >> Of course, they may be using that ISP's servers to route to your >> server, so they could be anywhere. >> >> -- >> Sincerely, >> >> Michael Lauzon >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > ________________________________ > Create a cool, new character for your Windows Live? Messenger. Check it out -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 01:54:24 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:54:24 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <20090624165411.GJ18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230651t53d092bfw13459b9301809432@mail.gmail.com> <4A40ECB2.9050207@rogers.com> <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4123D9.1060408@rogers.com> <20090623195837.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0906231319wc5b4f08p10b7b7e3deb84564@mail.gmail.com> <20090623203432.GC18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A418C7D.9040007@rogers.com> <20090624145021.GF18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A4245D7.9050105@rogers.com> <20090624165411.GJ18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A42D8D0.2080401@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:27:19AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> When such a DVD player sends a wide screen signal to the TV, does it >> actually produce a different signal or does it just tell the set to >> display in wide screen? >> > > Well it would not generate the same amount of black bars at the top and > bottom of the screen in the case of a widescreen DVD. So the signal > would be different. The aspect ratio would be preserved, and rather > than having the DVD add bars to the top and bottom and then have the > widescreen TV add black bars to the left and right, you would end up > with mostly picture on the screen. > Does the DVD player or wide screen TV produce the bars? After all, when receiving a standard definition signal from another source, such as broadcast or VCR, the bars appear, but are not from the source. > If the DVD player setup has an option for TV aspect ratio, then that > would be it. Of course the TV has to not be set to stretch, since that > just ruins all images you view. > > With a DVD player I have, it was configured for 16:9, but stretching was still necessary. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 02:10:04 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:10:04 -0400 Subject: drawing shapes in gimp? In-Reply-To: <326052.22867.qm-LGZSB/hsMXJ+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <326052.22867.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090624221004.3186fe5e.hgibson@eol.ca> On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > I wonder are there any plug-ins for GIMP that allow for drawing, surely someone else might have wanted to do draw (on pictures) besides matt or myself? > > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav Rajinder, Try xfig. Xfig allows you to load bitmap graphics and draw over them. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 04:28:44 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: drawing shapes in gimp? Message-ID: <802157.6569.qm@web111203.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Howard, I really like xfig a lot, thanks for pointing this out! Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Howard Gibson wrote: > From: Howard Gibson > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: drawing shapes in gimp? > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:10 PM > On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:01:22 -0700 > (PDT) > Rajinder Yadav > wrote: > > > > > I wonder are there any plug-ins for GIMP that allow > for drawing, surely someone else might have wanted to do > draw (on pictures) besides matt or myself? > > > > Kind Regards, > > Rajinder Yadav > > Rajinder, > > ???Try xfig.? Xfig allows you to load > bitmap graphics and draw over them.??? > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson at eol.ca > howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 04:52:19 2009 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:52:19 -0400 Subject: Questions about disabling {CTRL-ALT-DEL} Message-ID: <20090625045219.GA7939@waltdnes.org> Thanks to using Windows at work, "force of habit" makes me occasionally try to "logon" with {CTRL-ALT-DEL}, which is not a good idea in linux. I intend to change the /etc/inittab entry... # What to do at the "Three Finger Salute". ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -r now ...to... # What to do at the "Three Finger Salute". ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/usr/bin/chvt 1 This will transfer me to text console tty 1 instead of rebooting. There is a reason for that. I was thinking of using the "Magic SysReq Key" option to as the replacement to force a sync/unmount/reboot, if I really need it. The "Magic SysReq Key" gets intercepted in X. Transferring to text console 1 gets around that problem. Are there any other booby-traps I should be aware of? Does the change take effect immediately or do I have to reboot? Are there any other side-effects? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 05:20:09 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:20:09 -0700 Subject: Questions about disabling {CTRL-ALT-DEL} In-Reply-To: <20090625045219.GA7939-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20090625045219.GA7939@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <7AD9AFE6-97AF-48C5-BC5B-2A092D9CFC74@gmail.com> You need to "telinit q" to re-read confit before it will apply. (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 24-Jun-09, at 9:52 PM, "Walter Dnes" wrote: > Thanks to using Windows at work, "force of habit" makes me > occasionally try to "logon" with {CTRL-ALT-DEL}, which is not a good > idea in linux. I intend to change the /etc/inittab entry... > > # What to do at the "Three Finger Salute". > ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -r now > > ...to... > > # What to do at the "Three Finger Salute". > ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/usr/bin/chvt 1 > > This will transfer me to text console tty 1 instead of rebooting. > There is a reason for that. I was thinking of using the "Magic SysReq > Key" option to as the replacement to force a sync/unmount/reboot, if I > really need it. The "Magic SysReq Key" gets intercepted in X. > Transferring to text console 1 gets around that problem. > > Are there any other booby-traps I should be aware of? Does the > change > take effect immediately or do I have to reboot? Are there any other > side-effects? > > -- > Walter Dnes > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 14:21:58 2009 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:21:58 -0400 Subject: drawing shapes in gimp? In-Reply-To: References: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> Message-ID: <1245939718.22791.2249.camel@gont> On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 13:15 -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:47 AM, Matt Price wrote: > > > > On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 15:31 -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > > On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, Matt Price wrote: > > > > > > > hey there, > > > > > > > > I need to draw a simple picture, a five-pointed star on a monocolor > > > > background. What would be the best way for me to this in gimp or some > > > > other program? > > > > > > $ cat star.ps > > > %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0 > > > %%BoundingBox: 0 0 70 70 > > > .7 .2 .2 setrgbcolor > > > 20 0 moveto > > > 5 { 50 50 rlineto 144 rotate } repeat fill > > > $ convert -trim star.ps star.png > > > > ah. very nice. so now you're telling me that to draw, i need to learn > > postscript? that was NOT what i wanted to hear... still very cool. > > having trouble understnading what's going on, though. suppose i want > > the picture 5 times as big? i guess i can scale it in gimp -- though > > now i try it out, that doesn't seem trivial to do. and if i want to > > generate the initial picture with one point going straight up? these > > pics are just slightly off to the side, i guess about 10 degrees. > > again, i can rotate in gimp... but it'd be nice if the script just did > > it perfectly, wouldn't it. any chance you could explain what you're > > doing here a bit more fully? > > Well, I think there's a lot to be said for the notion of using > appropriate tools, and the contrasts available here are pretty > stark... > > 1. The above Postcript file does the task in a file 125 bytes long, > and it's not SO inscrutable that I'd expect it to completely scare off > someone capable of installing and using Linux. > it really helped a lot when Chris sent that next message out w/ the comments. Thanks for that Chris! I honestly had never thought thatt learning postscript would be worth my time, but now I'm very much intrigued. > 2. GIMP is a ~60MB application that wouldn't be notably easier to use > for the purpose, because it's not notably good at vector graphics. > yes, i noticed that as i was fooling about. > 3. On the other hand, to process that Postscript file, you quite > likely need Ghostscript, which isn't *that* much smaller than GIMP > ;-). > > 4. I suspect you might rather use Inkscape. It only chews 10MB of > space to install it ;-). And it has a "create star" icon that allows > you to create, spin, and locate a star pretty easily in interactive > fashion. i'd forgotten about inkscape, which i've never really used. and it looks like it is by far the best tool for what i was trying to do, much better than Openoffice, aswell. anywy, thanks to both of you for the great suggestions. matt > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > Casey Stengel - "All right everyone, line up alphabetically according > to your height." > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 14:47:04 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:47:04 -0400 Subject: good day to buy 30" monitor In-Reply-To: <4A42D8D0.2080401-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230859g622e1b9ai3a443a72a28a334a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4123D9.1060408@rogers.com> <20090623195837.GB18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0906231319wc5b4f08p10b7b7e3deb84564@mail.gmail.com> <20090623203432.GC18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A418C7D.9040007@rogers.com> <20090624145021.GF18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A4245D7.9050105@rogers.com> <20090624165411.GJ18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A42D8D0.2080401@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090625144704.GL18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 09:54:24PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Does the DVD player or wide screen TV produce the bars? After all, when > receiving a standard definition signal from another source, such as > broadcast or VCR, the bars appear, but are not from the source. The DVD player produces the bars on the top and bottom. The widescreen TV would be responsible for the bars on the sides when showing non wide stuff. > With a DVD player I have, it was configured for 16:9, but stretching was > still necessary. Well then either the DVD player doesn't send a signal about the aspect ratio it is outputting, or the TV doesn't receive it/understand it. Certainly HDMI makes that stuff much more standard and it just works in general. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 14:48:26 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:48:26 -0400 Subject: Questions about disabling {CTRL-ALT-DEL} In-Reply-To: <20090625045219.GA7939-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20090625045219.GA7939@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20090625144826.GM18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 12:52:19AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Thanks to using Windows at work, "force of habit" makes me > occasionally try to "logon" with {CTRL-ALT-DEL}, which is not a good > idea in linux. I intend to change the /etc/inittab entry... > > # What to do at the "Three Finger Salute". > ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -r now > > ...to... > > # What to do at the "Three Finger Salute". > ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/usr/bin/chvt 1 > > This will transfer me to text console tty 1 instead of rebooting. > There is a reason for that. I was thinking of using the "Magic SysReq > Key" option to as the replacement to force a sync/unmount/reboot, if I > really need it. The "Magic SysReq Key" gets intercepted in X. > Transferring to text console 1 gets around that problem. > > Are there any other booby-traps I should be aware of? Does the change > take effect immediately or do I have to reboot? Are there any other > side-effects? Just need to do 'telinit q' to reload inittab. Nothing else. I have changed that before as well, usually to something that echoes a message. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 19:36:04 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:36:04 -0700 Subject: Linux on Netbooks (NOT!), was: Globe & Mail article on FOSS use by Cdn gov't In-Reply-To: References: <4A3C48B6.3080208@telly.org> <4A3CC8B1.5090604@moores.ca> <4A3CE6CE.3040903@telly.org> <4A3D001A.4020503@moores.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906251236k116a54c8gdddc3ef6bc9dd305@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 8:12 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Darryl Moore > > | On a related note, I came across this link by way of slashdot. > | > | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090619161307529 > > Very interesting! > > I had kind of wondered what was going on when I read a report from > Computex. ?This amplifies my concerns. ?I would not say it was a > proof. > > Here's another topic that might be FUD and might not be: return rates > of Linux netbooks vs WinXP netbooks. > > I remmber MSI saying that "The return rate is at least four times > higher for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks." > ?http://blog.laptopmag.com/msi-wind-coming-to-major-retailer-new-models-coming-soon > Apparently the Linux was SuSE. > > Apparently Ubuntu confirmed high return rates (but they don't know > WinXP return rates): > ?http://blog.laptopmag.com/ubuntu-confirms-linux-netbook-returns-higher-than-anticpated > > Yet I remember that Dell said that Linux was not worse than WinXP for > them: > ?http://netbookboards.com/dell/mini-9-netbook-running-ubuntu-returned-less-than-xp/ > They use a version of Ubuntu LTS 8.04. > > Here's an interesting article: > ?http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9131204 > About the MSI statement, it said: > ? ?Solis said in a March research note that Taiwan's MSI had not yet > ? ?shipped a Linux-based Wind at the time of the comment to the magazine. > ? ?When it did, it did not "adapt" the operating system for the netbook's > ? ?smaller size -- a key ingredient to Linux's acceptance by consumers, > ? ?Solis wrote. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I might be getting confused with another company, but didn't MSI ship some netbooks which turned out to have some rather irksome driver issues in Linux (assumedly the drivers were OK in windows)? That might account for high returns. Whatever the numbers may be, I'm fairly impressed with the way the global community has increased 'nix support, especially in the arena of drivers, etc. NVidia has been well known for good drivers, but ATI's drivers since the AMD merger are impressive. Intel has generally been known for good driver compatibility in most areas, if not great performance in video hardware etc. FOSS drivers for wireless have improved, finally snagging a lot of troublesome broadcomm/B43 cards. My last laptop for the longest time had to use ndiswrapper, but when the FOSS driver finally was included in the kernel it worked wonderfully. My current laptop doesn't have a working FOSS driver (wireless N cards aren't well supported by B43 yet), but I was very surprised to discover that broadcomm themselves released a driver (WL). That one ran like shite when I first tried it early this year, but the current incarnation has worked without any notable errors. Heck, even most webcams seem to work nicely, and ditto for cardreaders, etc. I've *NEVER* found had a machine where bluetooth required more than minimal configuration. One area that could probably use a fair bit of improvement though, seems to be sound. While a lot of soundcards do somewhat work, I've seen a number of ones based on the IntelHD chipset that have various issues (volume controls wacky, output detection incorrect, Mic in doesn't work), but hopefully the ALSA guys will get there eventually. Good drivers will do a lot to improve support. It's pretty hard to push the sales of a linux operating system when not all your hardware works properly. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 20:33:34 2009 From: trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (cameron lord) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:33:34 -0400 Subject: Port 80? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906241840gcc3eb4cwd963d0ed6eea3823-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570906231455p3eda97ebs332e585b424082e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0906241840gcc3eb4cwd963d0ed6eea3823@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: yeah, i think that might be a good idea. > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:40:04 -0400 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Port 80? > From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > I don't want to seem like a jerk, but if it's critical that it be up, > and you can't fix it yourself, then it's probably worth paying > somebody to give you a hand (not volunteering myself, but suggesting > it as an option if this is time-critical). > > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:49 PM, cameron lord wrote: > > Michael, i think you right, but what should i do? > > I need my data server online at all times! > > My isp (rogers) cant block the ip address, > > they say they need it! > > I also cant stop the data flow, the NSD has no controls its just a piece of > > hardware! > > Help? > > > >> From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > >> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:55:16 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Port 80? > >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:41, cameron lord wrote: > >> > I already did, it still says apache, i hoked up my winxp laptop (sucks) > >> > to > >> > my swiches listen port, i have an intrusion problem o.O i found that > >> > when i > >> > run Wireshark i see TONNNS of data comming from my networked storage > >> > unit > >> > to, 99.243.63.182(AXCellsecure.trieocorp.e6a2ffi6ad.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) > >> > which > >> > is fine, its my isp assinged ip adderss, but when i look at the same > >> > addr > >> > on the computer it was given to , i have no traffic, and the data only > >> > flows > >> > when the the computer at my location is off. Also when i listen on my > >> > Firebox watchgaurd i see no traffic except for pings and dchp ack, and > >> > my > >> > vnc server, someone is bypassing one of the most advanced hardware > >> > firewalls > >> > ever! The data i found comming out of my cable modem is all going to > >> > 125.16.27.50,and then is being served to xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx, whichisnt very > >> > helpfull at all. so far theyve downloaded 2.5 TB of my data and i cant > >> > stop > >> > them, i need to have my server online at all times! > >> > > >> > > >> > cameron lord; Axcellsecure > >> > > >> > >> It appears that you're being hacked by someone in Hyderabad, India: > >> > >> Hostname: 125.16.27.50 > >> ISP: Bharti Broadband > >> Organization: PROKARMA SOFTECH PVT LTD > >> Proxy: None detected > >> Type: Cable/DSL > >> > >> Of course, they may be using that ISP's servers to route to your > >> server, so they could be anywhere. > >> > >> -- > >> Sincerely, > >> > >> Michael Lauzon > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > ________________________________ > > Create a cool, new character for your Windows Live? Messenger. Check it out > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (778) 890-0942 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 20:39:45 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:39:45 -0400 Subject: Port 80? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570906231455p3eda97ebs332e585b424082e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0906241840gcc3eb4cwd963d0ed6eea3823@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A43E091.7080705@utoronto.ca> cameron lord wrote: > yeah, i think that might be a good idea. > > > Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:40:04 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Port 80? > > From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > > I don't want to seem like a jerk, but if it's critical that it be up, > > and you can't fix it yourself, then it's probably worth paying > > somebody to give you a hand (not volunteering myself, but suggesting > > it as an option if this is time-critical). It is an Indian ip, if you're sure it isn't legitimate traffic: iptables -A INPUT -s 125.16.27.50 -j DROP The secure your box. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 21:17:51 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux on Netbooks (NOT!), was: Globe & Mail article on FOSS use by Cdn gov't In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906251236k116a54c8gdddc3ef6bc9dd305-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4A3C48B6.3080208@telly.org> <4A3CC8B1.5090604@moores.ca> <4A3CE6CE.3040903@telly.org> <4A3D001A.4020503@moores.ca> <3a97ef0906251236k116a54c8gdddc3ef6bc9dd305@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Tyler Aviss | Whatever the numbers may be, I'm fairly impressed with the way the | global community has increased 'nix support, especially in the arena | of drivers, etc. NVidia has been well known for good drivers, but | ATI's drivers since the AMD merger are impressive. Intel has | generally been known for good driver compatibility in most areas, if | not great performance in video hardware etc. All video drivers seem to be going through a period of instability. The usually rock-solid Intel drivers have been having trouble during a change in how memory is managed or acceleration is done or something like that. Other open-source drivers seem to be having trouble with the Kernel Mode-Switch cutover. Whether you experience these problems, or perhaps just when, depends on how aggressive your distro is. Fedora 11 seems aggressive -- read the release notes. Some netbooks use the Intel GMA500 which has horrible driver issues. A design that Intel seems to have bought rather than built. | FOSS drivers for wireless have improved, finally snagging a lot of | troublesome broadcomm/B43 cards. My last laptop for the longest time | had to use ndiswrapper, but when the FOSS driver finally was included | in the kernel it worked wonderfully. Yeah, broadcom support is better. Due to reverse engineering by OpenBSD folks, I think. Unfortunately, they have not implemented all the modes needed by an access point so we still don't have open source drivers for WRT54GL etc. routers. | My current laptop doesn't have a working FOSS driver (wireless N cards | aren't well supported by B43 yet), but I was very surprised to | discover that broadcomm themselves released a driver (WL). That one | ran like shite when I first tried it early this year, but the current | incarnation has worked without any notable errors. Interesting. Binary-only wireless drivers might only support some kernel versions or distros. | Heck, even most webcams seem to work nicely, and ditto for | cardreaders, etc. I've *NEVER* found had a machine where bluetooth | required more than minimal configuration. Newer web cams use some newish USB standard for the purpose as opposed to older ones which were much more proprietary. | One area that could probably use a fair bit of improvement though, | seems to be sound. While a lot of soundcards do somewhat work, I've | seen a number of ones based on the IntelHD chipset that have various | issues (volume controls wacky, output detection incorrect, Mic in | doesn't work), but hopefully the ALSA guys will get there eventually. The new simplified Pulse Audio volume control is driving some people crazy. If it does what you want, it is very nicely simple. If not, you are out of luck. | Good drivers will do a lot to improve support. It's pretty hard to | push the sales of a linux operating system when not all your hardware | works properly. What was great about netbooks was that the vendors were shipping Linux so they were motivated to eliminate barriers to working Linux. Most notebooks are retrofitted with Linux by users, a process that is not guaranteed to succeed. In general, notebooks have been harder to retrofit than desktops. Mind you, I've not had any luck with desktop suspend but had some success with notebook suspend. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 25 23:09:59 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Questions about disabling {CTRL-ALT-DEL} In-Reply-To: <20090625144826.GM18672-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090625045219.GA7939@waltdnes.org> <20090625144826.GM18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Nothing else. I have changed that before as well, usually to something > that echoes a message. For years I had C-A-D dump "This is not a Windows box!" to the console :) Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 26 14:51:34 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:51:34 -0400 Subject: Questions about disabling {CTRL-ALT-DEL} In-Reply-To: References: <20090625045219.GA7939@waltdnes.org> <20090625144826.GM18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090626145134.GA15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 07:09:59PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> Nothing else. I have changed that before as well, usually to something >> that echoes a message. > > For years I had C-A-D dump "This is not a Windows box!" to the console :) I also have this script as /usr/local/sbin/[reboot|halt|shutdown|poweroff] #!/bin/bash /usr/games/cowsay "This is a server. Not your local test unit or router. Are you sure you want to `basename $0` $HOSTNAME?" sleep 1 echo "" echo "If so please use /sbin/`basename $0` explicitly." Helps avoid embarrassing reboots of things you might ssh to once in a while. Certainly seems to get people's attention. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 26 15:00:39 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:00:39 +0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: References: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> Message-ID: <4A44E297.1090101@gmail.com> You may wonder why I am asking such strange question... We all know that costs of flash memory sticks drops down like crazy. A something that was 100 $ a 5 years ago is now ... well.. it is nowhere now. I would love to buy even a 1 MB SSD USB memory stick for 1 $. I would buy them perhaps in 100 amount. Why? Because thats a great medium for advertising: lets imagine that I am at a big international conference of physicists and I would like to everyone who become interested in my poster presentation to handle a digital copy of presentation plus other works I did during last 53 years. Sure, I could give a copy of CD. But SSD memory stick is easier to handle. CD they will throw away while that small device they will keep for ever near to their garbage can. And what if it was somewhat more than 1.2 MB ? Than we could put a copy of Slackware 1.0 there as well... zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 26 15:18:39 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:18:39 -0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A44E297.1090101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> <4A44E297.1090101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090626151839.GA19284@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 07:00:39PM +0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > I would love to buy even a 1 MB SSD USB memory stick for 1 $. I would > buy them perhaps in 100 amount. Why? The fabrication cost of a 1Mb stick is going to be very similar, if not higher, than a 1Gb stick. There are a number of vendors who will print your logo on a USB stick for semi-reasonable prices at quantity. I know my workplace just got a boxfull of 2Gb sticks with our logo on them. I can look into the pricing if you like. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 26 15:23:38 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:23:38 -0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <20090626151839.GA19284-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> <4A44E297.1090101@gmail.com> <20090626151839.GA19284@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <4A44E7FA.50204@linuxcaffe.ca> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I know > my workplace just got a boxfull of 2Gb sticks with our logo on them. I > can look into the pricing if you like. oh, yes, over here ! me like prices too ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 26 15:54:51 2009 From: pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Pete Lancashire) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:54:51 -0700 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A44E297.1090101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> <4A44E297.1090101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <347e89180cb038a813407c961098e9d1.squirrel@petelancashire.com> just typed in 1 GB USB Flash into Google with out looking hard found one place $2.15USD with your logo -pete > You may wonder why I am asking such strange question... > > We all know that costs of flash memory sticks drops down like crazy. A > something that was 100 $ a 5 years ago is now ... well.. it is nowhere > now. > > I would love to buy even a 1 MB SSD USB memory stick for 1 $. I would > buy them perhaps in 100 amount. Why? > > Because thats a great medium for advertising: lets imagine that I am at > a big international conference of physicists and I would like to > everyone who become interested in my poster presentation to handle a > digital copy of presentation plus other works I did during last 53 > years. Sure, I could give a copy of CD. But SSD memory stick is easier > to handle. CD they will throw away while that small device they will > keep for ever near to their garbage can. And what if it was somewhat > more than 1.2 MB ? Than we could put a copy of Slackware 1.0 there as > well... > > zb. > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 26 15:39:50 2009 From: pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Pete Lancashire) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:39:50 -0700 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A44E297.1090101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> <4A44E297.1090101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b0f00f82f5737e04269dbab537d6315.squirrel@petelancashire.com> The main issue is silicon, there are two chips a USB interface to NAND memory device and the NAND memory chip. Most memory fabs only make 2 to 5 size/density of devices. That today would be a minimum of 1GB. as a short life advertising gizmo you may be able to use die that are rejected for too many bad cells and use a interface chip that can remove that many. but in todays high volume, it may cost just as much to select the defects for that use as it would to just buy the bigger die. with smaller NAND it is getting to where the assembly costs of something like a dongle are as much as the silicon. hope not to much of a ramble .. -pete > You may wonder why I am asking such strange question... > > We all know that costs of flash memory sticks drops down like crazy. A > something that was 100 $ a 5 years ago is now ... well.. it is nowhere > now. > > I would love to buy even a 1 MB SSD USB memory stick for 1 $. I would > buy them perhaps in 100 amount. Why? > > Because thats a great medium for advertising: lets imagine that I am at > a big international conference of physicists and I would like to > everyone who become interested in my poster presentation to handle a > digital copy of presentation plus other works I did during last 53 > years. Sure, I could give a copy of CD. But SSD memory stick is easier > to handle. CD they will throw away while that small device they will > keep for ever near to their garbage can. And what if it was somewhat > more than 1.2 MB ? Than we could put a copy of Slackware 1.0 there as > well... > > zb. > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 26 16:51:00 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:51:00 -0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A44E7FA.50204-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> <4A44E297.1090101@gmail.com> <20090626151839.GA19284@yam.witteman.ca> <4A44E7FA.50204@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <20090626165100.GA21492@yam.witteman.ca> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:23:38AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > >> I know >> my workplace just got a boxfull of 2Gb sticks with our logo on them. I >> can look into the pricing if you like. > > oh, yes, over here ! me like prices too ! > djp It turns out that when you don't consult with your IT staff (me, in this case) you end up with a bad deal. The sticks that we purchased were about $700 for 100, and they use a poor choice of glue to secure the PCB in the housing, so they are prone to failure as the force of insertion pushes the working parts too far into the housing to complete the connection. YMMV, but caveat emptor. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 26 17:04:07 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:04:07 -0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A44E297.1090101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> <4A44E297.1090101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090626170407.GB15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 07:00:39PM +0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > You may wonder why I am asking such strange question... > > We all know that costs of flash memory sticks drops down like crazy. A > something that was 100 $ a 5 years ago is now ... well.. it is nowhere > now. > > I would love to buy even a 1 MB SSD USB memory stick for 1 $. I would > buy them perhaps in 100 amount. Why? > > Because thats a great medium for advertising: lets imagine that I am at > a big international conference of physicists and I would like to > everyone who become interested in my poster presentation to handle a > digital copy of presentation plus other works I did during last 53 > years. Sure, I could give a copy of CD. But SSD memory stick is easier > to handle. CD they will throw away while that small device they will > keep for ever near to their garbage can. And what if it was somewhat > more than 1.2 MB ? Than we could put a copy of Slackware 1.0 there as > well... I think unfortunately there is a cost for the plastic case, the connector, etc. You just won't get one for $1 I suspect, although they seem to be getting awfully close. Certainly a number of places seem to advertise 64MB or 128MB usb keys with your logo printed on them and perhaps even your data loaded onto them for about $2.50 each. Not quite $1, but close. I think 100 might be possible, although some places appear to prefer orders of 1000. After all they have to load your stuff into the system, and hit go, and deal with payment and all that. For 100 pieces that doesn't leave much for profits. For 1000 it works out much better. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 26 21:01:29 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:01:29 -0700 Subject: Questions about disabling {CTRL-ALT-DEL} In-Reply-To: <20090626145134.GA15752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090625045219.GA7939@waltdnes.org> <20090625144826.GM18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090626145134.GA15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0906261401r2b447ac9kd1297b8c114cf81b@mail.gmail.com> That's the first semi-legit use of "cowsay" I've seen. On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 7:51 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 07:09:59PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: >> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >>> Nothing else. ?I have changed that before as well, usually to something >>> that echoes a message. >> >> For years I had C-A-D dump "This is not a Windows box!" to the console :) > > I also have this script as /usr/local/sbin/[reboot|halt|shutdown|poweroff] > > #!/bin/bash > /usr/games/cowsay "This is a server. ?Not your local test unit or router. ?Are you sure you want to `basename $0` $HOSTNAME?" > sleep 1 > echo "" > echo "If so please use /sbin/`basename $0` explicitly." > > Helps avoid embarrassing reboots of things you might ssh to once in a while. > > Certainly seems to get people's attention. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (778) 890-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 26 21:33:16 2009 From: rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:33:16 -0400 Subject: question about resizing partitions under lvm Message-ID: <5bef4baf0906261433n3f02914brc7fa2c9ea0bc621f@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, I'm interested in taking 100gb from my /var partition and giving it to my /home partition. Both partitions are using the ext3 file system and it's all being co-ordinated by lvm. Here's my partition setups: monad:~# df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/mapper/vg00-root 19682584 1130420 17552332 7% / tmpfs 4056128 0 4056128 0% /lib/init/rw udev 10240 128 10112 2% /dev tmpfs 4056128 0 4056128 0% /dev/shm /dev/md0 482090 58405 398793 13% /boot /dev/mapper/vg00-home 196861252 186862044 0 100% /home /dev/mapper/vg00-tmp 49214272 184428 46529852 1% /tmp /dev/mapper/vg00-usr 49214272 3638008 43076272 8% /usr /dev/mapper/vg00-usrlocal 153796644 4885652 141098488 4% /usr/local /dev/mapper/vg00-var 196861252 621272 186240008 1% /var (There's a mirroring RAID-1 underneath all that too, but I don't think this is an issue I need to concern myself with.) Since I've not done this before, I wanted to get a basic sanity check out there from people who are hopefully more familiar with this kind of thing. My plan is (in pseudocode): umount /var resize2fs /dev/mapper/vg00-var -100G lvreduce /dev/mapper/vg00-var -100G umount /home lvextend /dev/mapper/vg00-home +100G resize2f /dev/mapper/vg00-home +100G mount /home mount /var Does this make sense? Do I need to worry about whether the /home and /var partitions are adjacent, given that I'm doing this all under lvm? Thanks, - Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 26 22:16:53 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: question about resizing partitions under lvm Message-ID: <565301.19529.qm@web111207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I have not gotten around to figuring how LVM work yet, but in your pseudo code, is there possibly a step missing where you need to 'compact' the partition so all the data is packed before you start to play around with the boundaries or does this not apply to logical partition? Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Richard Dice wrote: > From: Richard Dice > Subject: [TLUG]: question about resizing partitions under lvm > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Friday, June 26, 2009, 5:33 PM > Hi everyone, > > I'm interested in taking 100gb from my /var partition > and giving it to my /home partition.? Both partitions are > using the ext3 file system and it's all being > co-ordinated by lvm.? Here's my partition setups: > > > monad:~# > df > Filesystem?????????? > 1K-blocks????? Used Available Use% Mounted on > > /dev/mapper/vg00-root > ????????????????????? > 19682584?? 1130420? 17552332?? 7% / > > tmpfs????????????????? > 4056128???????? 0?? 4056128?? 0% > /lib/init/rw > udev???????????????????? > 10240?????? 128???? 10112?? 2% /dev > > tmpfs????????????????? > 4056128???????? 0?? 4056128?? 0% > /dev/shm > /dev/md0??????????????? > 482090???? 58405??? 398793? 13% /boot > > /dev/mapper/vg00-home > ???????????????????? > 196861252 186862044???????? 0 100% /home > > /dev/mapper/vg00-tmp? 49214272??? 184428? > 46529852?? 1% /tmp > /dev/mapper/vg00-usr? 49214272?? 3638008? > 43076272?? 8% /usr > > /dev/mapper/vg00-usrlocal > ???????????????????? > 153796644?? 4885652 141098488?? 4% /usr/local > > /dev/mapper/vg00-var 196861252??? 621272 > 186240008?? 1% /var > > (There's a mirroring RAID-1 underneath all that too, > but I don't think this is an issue I need to concern > myself with.) > > > Since I've not done this before, I wanted to get a > basic sanity check out there from people who are hopefully > more familiar with this kind of thing.? My plan is (in > pseudocode): > > umount /var > resize2fs /dev/mapper/vg00-var -100G > > lvreduce /dev/mapper/vg00-var -100G > umount /home > lvextend /dev/mapper/vg00-home +100G > resize2f /dev/mapper/vg00-home +100G > mount /home > mount /var > > Does this make sense?? Do I need to worry about whether > the /home and /var partitions are adjacent, given that > I'm doing this all under lvm? > > > Thanks, > ?- Richard > > > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 02:04:51 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:04:51 -0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A44E297.1090101-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1245781394.22791.7.camel@gont> <1245818857.22791.663.camel@gont> <4A44E297.1090101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A457E43.3090608@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > You may wonder why I am asking such strange question... > > We all know that costs of flash memory sticks drops down like crazy. A > something that was 100 $ a 5 years ago is now ... well.. it is nowhere > now. > > I would love to buy even a 1 MB SSD USB memory stick for 1 $. I would > buy them perhaps in 100 amount. Why? > > Because thats a great medium for advertising: lets imagine that I am > at a big international conference of physicists and I would like to > everyone who become interested in my poster presentation to handle a > digital copy of presentation plus other works I did during last 53 > years. Sure, I could give a copy of CD. But SSD memory stick is easier > to handle. CD they will throw away while that small device they will > keep for ever near to their garbage can. And what if it was somewhat > more than 1.2 MB ? Than we could put a copy of Slackware 1.0 there as > well... > A device that size has less capacity than a floppy and would therefore be essentially useless these days. Also, you won't save much by making one with so little capacity. Companies are giving away 1 GB and more as promotional items. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 03:16:08 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:16:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: small flash cards for low prize? Message-ID: <108369.60387.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Why even bother with a flash drive promo for you personal work, wouldn't a website be the best medium. If the flash drive were of a usable capacity say 8G like the one I have, most likely I would just grab one and format it for personal use. If I was really interested in your work, i.e presentation I would inquire where I could download it or see it later online, and how I could get in contact with you email. Also having something online would allow you to connect with people and also allow your work to be more organic (living vs dead). For companies giving away the USB as promo item, most likely they have a website, the logo on the USB has the company name and or website URL, and that is what they are hoping for in the first place, to drive people to their website. So someone like me who formatted the flash drive, would still be able to go to their website many month later. Personally I would not bother having a USB drive with such a small capacity that it would be practically junk for me. A 1 Gig flash drive would compel me to upgrade and keep with up the Jones ;) so I would end up buying one while keeping my eye on for a big sale. The idea sounds a nice way to self promote, but it has many barriers, how many people do you expect to will put the flash drive on there key-chain and keep your personal work around with them? If the number is high then it's worth the investment, otherwise put your work on a website and drive traffic there. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Fri, 6/26/09, James Knott wrote: > From: James Knott > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: small flash cards for low prize? > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Friday, June 26, 2009, 10:04 PM > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > > You may wonder why I am asking such strange > question... > > > > We all know that costs of flash memory sticks drops > down like crazy. A > > something that was 100 $ a 5 years ago is now ... > well.. it is nowhere > > now. > > > > I would love to buy even a 1 MB SSD USB memory stick > for 1 $. I would > > buy them perhaps in 100 amount. Why? > > > > Because thats a great medium for advertising: lets > imagine that I am > > at a big international conference of physicists and I > would like to > > everyone who become interested in my poster > presentation to handle a > > digital copy of presentation plus other works I did > during last 53 > > years. Sure, I could give a copy of CD. But SSD memory > stick is easier > > to handle. CD they will throw away while that small > device they will > > keep for ever near to their garbage can. And what if > it was somewhat > > more than 1.2 MB ? Than we could put a copy of > Slackware 1.0 there as > > well... > > > > A device that size has less capacity than a floppy and > would therefore > be essentially useless these days.? Also, you won't > save much by making > one with so little capacity.? Companies are giving > away 1 GB and more as > promotional items. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 04:08:30 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Linux kernel newbie article Message-ID: <684539.57678.qm@web111215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> While checking out the new linux.com site I came across this article. I found this interesting, possibly someone else might too? For the common Linux user it goes beyond what they care to know about Linux ;) http://www.linux.com/news/software/linux-kernel/23685-the-kernel-newbie-corner-your-first-loadable-kernel-module Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 04:23:06 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:23:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Questions about disabling {CTRL-ALT-DEL} In-Reply-To: <20090626145134.GA15752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090625045219.GA7939@waltdnes.org> <20090625144826.GM18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090626145134.GA15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > #!/bin/bash > /usr/games/cowsay "This is a server. Not your local test unit or router. Are you sure you want to `basename $0` $HOSTNAME?" > sleep 1 > echo "" > echo "If so please use /sbin/`basename $0` explicitly." > > Helps avoid embarrassing reboots of things you might ssh to once in a while. > > Certainly seems to get people's attention. Nice. I continue to drum into sysadmins (at every opportunity) that "shutdown now" is not something you do on a server unless it is melting in front of you. Even a one minute warning gives users a chance to respond, other sysadmins a chance to respond[1][2] and gives you a graceful exit strategy if you issue the command on the wrong box. [1] Another sysadmin can issue a shutdown -c to cancel a scheduled shutdown. They might know something you don't, so give them a chance. [2] When consulting one day I had the owner of a box issue a 'shutdown now' without warning when I was in the middle of editing crucial system config files. I managed to get :q! typed before my shell exited or the box would have hung on boot. I had to enlighten him after that incident :) Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 05:21:12 2009 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:21:12 -0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <108369.60387.qm-LGZSB/hsMXKZZBmlwP4mLPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <108369.60387.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A45AC48.6090603@primus.ca> @ Rajinder Yadav: I'm completely in agreement with every point you made. Congratulations on starting a new thread. Could you could compose a brief howto for Zbigniew Koziol? He always hits reply from whatever message he's reading, munges the subject line, and stuffs an unrelated question in the middle of someone else's conversation. Seems rude, but I guess he's new to this Internet thing. Keep it simple. Something like: 1) click write, compose, new message, whatever 2) type short informative subject line 3) compose message 4) address to *tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org* 5) hit send Oh, wait. He's a physicist. Better make it complicated to get his attention. Maybe explain explain email threads using string theory. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 07:02:33 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 11:02:33 +0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A45AC48.6090603-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <108369.60387.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A45AC48.6090603@primus.ca> Message-ID: <4A45C409.8030308@gmail.com> Please change your pumpers before writing in a public place. You stink. There is no moderation on this list but people harassing others were nether been able to survive here for long. zb. George Nicol wrote: > @ Rajinder Yadav: > > I'm completely in agreement with every point you made. > > Congratulations on starting a new thread. Could you could compose a brief > howto for Zbigniew Koziol? He always hits reply from whatever message > he's > reading, munges the subject line, and stuffs an unrelated question in the > middle of someone else's conversation. Seems rude, but I guess he's > new to > this Internet thing. Keep it simple. Something like: > > 1) click write, compose, new message, whatever > > 2) type short informative subject line > > 3) compose message > > 4) address to *tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org* > > 5) hit send > > Oh, wait. He's a physicist. Better make it complicated to get his > attention. > Maybe explain explain email threads using string theory. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 07:43:49 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:43:49 -0700 Subject: Questions about disabling {CTRL-ALT-DEL} In-Reply-To: References: <20090625045219.GA7939@waltdnes.org> <20090625144826.GM18672@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090626145134.GA15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3A88B30B-64A2-4395-9B36-360C96500DFD@gmail.com> Just to add to that vein, It also doesn't hurt to type a quick "who" to see who else is on the box before scaring them with reboot warnings. Also not a bad idea before swooping in on a server and taking significant actions (restarting daemons while another is editing config similarly has bad results) (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 26-Jun-09, at 9:23 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> #!/bin/bash >> /usr/games/cowsay "This is a server. Not your local test unit or >> router. Are you sure you want to `basename $0` $HOSTNAME?" >> sleep 1 >> echo "" >> echo "If so please use /sbin/`basename $0` explicitly." >> >> Helps avoid embarrassing reboots of things you might ssh to once in >> a while. >> >> Certainly seems to get people's attention. > > Nice. > > I continue to drum into sysadmins (at every opportunity) that > "shutdown now" is not something you do on a server unless it is > melting in front of you. Even a one minute warning gives users a > chance to respond, other sysadmins a chance to respond[1][2] and > gives you a graceful exit strategy if you issue the command on the > wrong box. > > [1] Another sysadmin can issue a shutdown -c to cancel a scheduled > shutdown. They might know something you don't, so give them a chance. > > [2] When consulting one day I had the owner of a box issue a > 'shutdown now' without warning when I was in the middle of editing > crucial system config files. I managed to get :q! typed before my > shell exited or the box would have hung on boot. I had to enlighten > him after that incident :) > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy > Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/ > index.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 07:48:25 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:48:25 -0700 Subject: question about resizing partitions under lvm In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0906261433n3f02914brc7fa2c9ea0bc621f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <5bef4baf0906261433n3f02914brc7fa2c9ea0bc621f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <799BD26A-CDA7-4C50-A042-95FEBA280E24@gmail.com> Does EXT3 size down nicely? I've never tried but experience with other FS's has been that it's a lot easier to go up than down. (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 26-Jun-09, at 2:33 PM, Richard Dice wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm interested in taking 100gb from my /var partition and giving it > to my /home partition. Both partitions are using the ext3 file > system and it's all being co-ordinated by lvm. Here's my partition > setups: > > monad:~# df > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > /dev/mapper/vg00-root > 19682584 1130420 17552332 7% / > tmpfs 4056128 0 4056128 0% /lib/init/rw > udev 10240 128 10112 2% /dev > tmpfs 4056128 0 4056128 0% /dev/shm > /dev/md0 482090 58405 398793 13% /boot > /dev/mapper/vg00-home > 196861252 186862044 0 100% /home > /dev/mapper/vg00-tmp 49214272 184428 46529852 1% /tmp > /dev/mapper/vg00-usr 49214272 3638008 43076272 8% /usr > /dev/mapper/vg00-usrlocal > 153796644 4885652 141098488 4% /usr/local > /dev/mapper/vg00-var 196861252 621272 186240008 1% /var > > (There's a mirroring RAID-1 underneath all that too, but I don't > think this is an issue I need to concern myself with.) > > Since I've not done this before, I wanted to get a basic sanity > check out there from people who are hopefully more familiar with > this kind of thing. My plan is (in pseudocode): > > umount /var > resize2fs /dev/mapper/vg00-var -100G > lvreduce /dev/mapper/vg00-var -100G > umount /home > lvextend /dev/mapper/vg00-home +100G > resize2f /dev/mapper/vg00-home +100G > mount /home > mount /var > > Does this make sense? Do I need to worry about whether the /home > and /var partitions are adjacent, given that I'm doing this all > under lvm? > > Thanks, > - Richard > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 07:58:48 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: wxformbuilder not able to find libs? Message-ID: <333068.35549.qm@web111210.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I built wxformbuilder from source, but when I try to run it, I get an error it can find some libraries. So I ldd the binary to find out what it's linking to and can't find. I did a search for 'libwx_gtk2u_richtext' and found it exists (see partial output below). Can someone tell me what I need to do so wxformbuilder will find these libs and run? did something fail at the linker stage? do I need to set the linker path before running make? or can this be fixed post build? [root at localhost bin]# ldd wxformbuilder linux-gate.so.1 => (0x00eb2000) libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0 => not found libwx_gtk2u_aui-2.8.so.0 => not found libwx_gtk2u_xrc-2.8.so.0 => not found [root at localhost bin]# updatedb [root at localhost bin]# locate libwx_gtk2u_richtext /mnt/drive_a/downloads/wxGTK-2.8.10/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so /mnt/drive_a/downloads/wxGTK-2.8.10/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0 /mnt/drive_a/downloads/wxGTK-2.8.10/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0.6.0 /usr/local/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so /usr/local/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0 /usr/local/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0.6. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 08:22:14 2009 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 04:22:14 -0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A45C409.8030308-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <108369.60387.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A45AC48.6090603@primus.ca> <4A45C409.8030308@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A45D6B6.8040108@primus.ca> I apologize. That was, indeed, bad form. Lame. Politely and sincerely: Please stop messing up our threaded conversations. I know... that you know... how to behave. The sarcasm was uncalled for, but you annoy me and others by consistently injecting new threads in current topics. You are summarily convicted of the offense. The archives speak. I surmise on further consideration that you "read and delete" each email. Probably you must do that. You run listservs. In more than one language. I can only imagine the cacophony in your head. Technical. Political. Scientific. Multi-lingual. The signal to noise ratio must demand "read and delete" to survive. But, again, please do the right thing here on the TLUG list. Thank you. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 08:34:59 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:34:59 +0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A45D6B6.8040108-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <108369.60387.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A45AC48.6090603@primus.ca> <4A45C409.8030308@gmail.com> <4A45D6B6.8040108@primus.ca> Message-ID: <4A45D9B3.6020506@gmail.com> George Nicol wrote: > I apologize. That was, indeed, bad form. Lame. > > Politely and sincerely: Please stop messing up our threaded > conversations. I do the most obvious thing that one could do. I hit reply and change subject. If this is causing problems than the software for archives does not work properly. The mailing list itself does work properly. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 09:45:12 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 05:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux kernel newbie article In-Reply-To: <684539.57678.qm-ocD5SZSfVax+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <684539.57678.qm@web111215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > While checking out the new linux.com site I came across this > article. I found this interesting, possibly someone else might too? boy, i'm hoping. :-) > http://www.linux.com/news/software/linux-kernel/23685-the-kernel-newbie-corner-your-first-loadable-kernel-module rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 10:13:20 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 03:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Linux kernel newbie article Message-ID: <883011.75438.qm@web111206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Robert, it was well written and easy to follow, I look forward to reading the articles to follow. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > From: Robert P. J. Day > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux kernel newbie article > To: "[TLUG]" > Received: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 5:45 AM > On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, Rajinder Yadav > wrote: > > > While checking out the new linux.com site I came > across this > > article. I found this interesting, possibly someone > else might too? > > ? boy, i'm hoping. :-) > > > http://www.linux.com/news/software/linux-kernel/23685-the-kernel-newbie-corner-your-first-loadable-kernel-module > > rday > -- > > ======================================================================== > Robert P. J. Day? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ???Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA > > ? ? ? ? Linux Consulting, Training and > Annoying Kernel Pedantry. > > Web page:? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? http://crashcourse.ca > Linked In:? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? > ???http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday > Twitter:? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ???http://twitter.com/rpjday > ======================================================================== > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 10:17:03 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:17:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux kernel newbie article In-Reply-To: <883011.75438.qm-LGZSB/hsMXIHBU+L9ui1Svu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <883011.75438.qm@web111206.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Jun 2009, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Robert, > > it was well written and easy to follow, I look forward to reading > the articles to follow. > > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav thank ya, thank ya very much. the next one is already mostly written and may show up ahead of schedule as it's not so much covering a new topic as filling in some of the holes from the debut article. so it may in fact be up by the beginning of next week. after that, i'm going for once a week. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 11:26:06 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 04:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: wxformbuilder not able to find libs? Message-ID: <675255.54383.qm@web111213.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It seems the make file for wxformbuilder still needs work! There is no make install step. To fix the problem, I had to define LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the runtime wxgtk+ and wxformbuilder libs ...starting to get an understanding how this works. I also had to create sym-links to some xml files, if it was not for the descriptive error messages with path to file, I would not have figured out the last step. I wonder how much time and energy is lost on incomplete steps, the developers must love to answer FAQ? Even reading the INSTALL notes didn't help me. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > From: Rajinder Yadav > Subject: [TLUG]: wxformbuilder not able to find libs? > To: "[TLUG]" > Received: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 3:58 AM > > I built wxformbuilder from source, but when I try to run > it, I get an error it can find some libraries. > > So I ldd the binary to find out what it's linking to and > can't find. > > I did a search for 'libwx_gtk2u_richtext' and found it > exists > (see partial output below). > > Can someone tell me what I need to do so wxformbuilder will > find these libs and run? did something fail at the linker > stage? do I need to set the linker path before running make? > or can this be fixed post build? > > [root at localhost bin]# ldd wxformbuilder > ? ? ? ? linux-gate.so.1 =>? > (0x00eb2000) > ? ? ? ? libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0 > => not found > ? ? ? ? libwx_gtk2u_aui-2.8.so.0 => > not found > ? ? ? ? libwx_gtk2u_xrc-2.8.so.0 => > not found > > > [root at localhost bin]# updatedb > [root at localhost bin]# locate libwx_gtk2u_richtext > > /mnt/drive_a/downloads/wxGTK-2.8.10/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so > /mnt/drive_a/downloads/wxGTK-2.8.10/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0 > /mnt/drive_a/downloads/wxGTK-2.8.10/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0.6.0 > > /usr/local/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so > /usr/local/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0 > /usr/local/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0.6. > > > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > > ? ? ? > __________________________________________________________________ > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 11:26:17 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 04:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: wxformbuilder not able to find libs? Message-ID: <920782.65217.qm@web111215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It seems the make file for wxformbuilder still needs work! There is no make install step. To fix the problem, I had to define LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the runtime wxgtk+ and wxformbuilder libs ...starting to get an understanding how this works. I also had to create sym-links to some xml files, if it was not for the descriptive error messages with path to file, I would not have figured out the last step. I wonder how much time and energy is lost on incomplete steps, the developers must love to answer FAQ? Even reading the INSTALL notes didn't help me. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > From: Rajinder Yadav > Subject: [TLUG]: wxformbuilder not able to find libs? > To: "[TLUG]" > Received: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 3:58 AM > > I built wxformbuilder from source, but when I try to run > it, I get an error it can find some libraries. > > So I ldd the binary to find out what it's linking to and > can't find. > > I did a search for 'libwx_gtk2u_richtext' and found it > exists > (see partial output below). > > Can someone tell me what I need to do so wxformbuilder will > find these libs and run? did something fail at the linker > stage? do I need to set the linker path before running make? > or can this be fixed post build? > > [root at localhost bin]# ldd wxformbuilder > ? ? ? ? linux-gate.so.1 =>? > (0x00eb2000) > ? ? ? ? libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0 > => not found > ? ? ? ? libwx_gtk2u_aui-2.8.so.0 => > not found > ? ? ? ? libwx_gtk2u_xrc-2.8.so.0 => > not found > > > [root at localhost bin]# updatedb > [root at localhost bin]# locate libwx_gtk2u_richtext > > /mnt/drive_a/downloads/wxGTK-2.8.10/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so > /mnt/drive_a/downloads/wxGTK-2.8.10/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0 > /mnt/drive_a/downloads/wxGTK-2.8.10/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0.6.0 > > /usr/local/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so > /usr/local/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0 > /usr/local/lib/libwx_gtk2u_richtext-2.8.so.0.6. > > > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > > ? ? ? > __________________________________________________________________ > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 12:46:32 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:46:32 -0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A45D9B3.6020506-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <108369.60387.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A45AC48.6090603@primus.ca> <4A45C409.8030308@gmail.com> <4A45D6B6.8040108@primus.ca> <4A45D9B3.6020506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4614A8.5070909@utoronto.ca> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > George Nicol wrote: >> I apologize. That was, indeed, bad form. Lame. >> >> Politely and sincerely: Please stop messing up our threaded >> conversations. > > I do the most obvious thing that one could do. I hit reply and change > subject. If this is causing problems than the software for archives does > not work properly. The mailing list itself does work properly. I disagree. You are not replying by starting a new thread. In fact, by hitting reply you are breaking things since RFC822 4.6.2 specifies that messages can contain an optional In-Reply-To field in their header. Since you are using Thunderbird and it adheres to the RFC (at least 4.6.2), the most obvious thing (for you) breaks things (for everyone else). I would suggest looking at how to remove the In-Reply-To field from Thunderbird on a per message basis (good luck with that). Or simply do like everyone else on the list does and start a new thread using tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org as the To address. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 12:55:50 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:55:50 +0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A4614A8.5070909-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <108369.60387.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A45AC48.6090603@primus.ca> <4A45C409.8030308@gmail.com> <4A45D6B6.8040108@primus.ca> <4A45D9B3.6020506@gmail.com> <4A4614A8.5070909@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4A4616D6.9040604@gmail.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> George Nicol wrote: >>> I apologize. That was, indeed, bad form. Lame. >>> >>> Politely and sincerely: Please stop messing up our threaded >>> conversations. >> >> I do the most obvious thing that one could do. I hit reply and change >> subject. If this is causing problems than the software for archives >> does not work properly. The mailing list itself does work properly. > > I disagree. You are not replying by starting a new thread. In fact, by > hitting reply you are breaking things since RFC822 4.6.2 specifies > that messages can contain an optional In-Reply-To field in their > header. Since you are using Thunderbird and it adheres to the RFC (at > least 4.6.2), the most obvious thing (for you) breaks things (for > everyone else). > Then report the bug to Thunderbird. Excuse me please. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 12:58:16 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:58:16 -0400 Subject: question about resizing partitions under lvm In-Reply-To: <799BD26A-CDA7-4C50-A042-95FEBA280E24-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <5bef4baf0906261433n3f02914brc7fa2c9ea0bc621f@mail.gmail.com> <799BD26A-CDA7-4C50-A042-95FEBA280E24@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A461768.5020807@utoronto.ca> Aviss,Tyler wrote: > Does EXT3 size down nicely? I've never tried but experience with other > FS's has been that it's a lot easier to go up than down. resize2fs will let you (think you have to turn off the journal with tune2fs, I don't know the details). The tricky part is running fdisk after resizing to remove the existing partition and create a new one with the smaller size. The gparted livecd/liveusb tool is excellent for such work, I highly recommend it. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 13:11:50 2009 From: rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 09:11:50 -0400 Subject: question about resizing partitions under lvm In-Reply-To: <4A461768.5020807-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <5bef4baf0906261433n3f02914brc7fa2c9ea0bc621f@mail.gmail.com> <799BD26A-CDA7-4C50-A042-95FEBA280E24@gmail.com> <4A461768.5020807@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <5bef4baf0906270611h47f31a75qccf64f5e77b9d687@mail.gmail.com> > > resize2fs will let you (think you have to turn off the journal with > tune2fs, I don't know the details). The tricky part is running fdisk after > resizing to remove the existing partition and create a new one with the > smaller size. > Jamon, But does using fdisk apply in the situation I originally described, where I said that I'm doing all of this under and lvm environment? The various man pages and HOWTOs I've read so far suggest that lvreduce and lvextend should take the place of fdisk. Am I right with that? Cheers, - Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 13:26:39 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 09:26:39 -0400 Subject: question about resizing partitions under lvm In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0906270611h47f31a75qccf64f5e77b9d687-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <5bef4baf0906261433n3f02914brc7fa2c9ea0bc621f@mail.gmail.com> <799BD26A-CDA7-4C50-A042-95FEBA280E24@gmail.com> <4A461768.5020807@utoronto.ca> <5bef4baf0906270611h47f31a75qccf64f5e77b9d687@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A461E0F.6000009@utoronto.ca> Richard Dice wrote: > resize2fs will let you (think you have to turn off the journal with > tune2fs, I don't know the details). The tricky part is running fdisk > after resizing to remove the existing partition and create a new one > with the smaller size. > > > Jamon, > > But does using fdisk apply in the situation I originally described, > where I said that I'm doing all of this under and lvm environment? The > various man pages and HOWTOs I've read so far suggest that lvreduce and > lvextend should take the place of fdisk. Am I right with that? That I couldn't say, I was responding to Tyler's question. But take a look at the gparted live{cd,usb} tool since it shows the commands it is running in the detailed output. Should give you an idea. I'd imagine if you're resizing a volume down and want to use the unused space for another partition fdisk will be involved. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 13:39:32 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:38:32 -0701 Subject: question about resizing partitions under lvm In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0906261433n3f02914brc7fa2c9ea0bc621f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <5bef4baf0906261433n3f02914brc7fa2c9ea0bc621f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420906270639r661d8117pd3c3d7d0b55ff7f1@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Richard Dice wrote: > Since I've not done this before, I wanted to get a basic sanity check out > there from people who are hopefully more familiar with this kind of thing. > My plan is (in pseudocode): > > umount /var > resize2fs /dev/mapper/vg00-var -100G > lvreduce /dev/mapper/vg00-var -100G > umount /home > lvextend /dev/mapper/vg00-home +100G > resize2f /dev/mapper/vg00-home +100G > mount /home > mount /var > > Does this make sense? Do I need to worry about whether the /home and /var > partitions are adjacent, given that I'm doing this all under lvm? I've only ever made partitions larger by allocating previously-unallocated space, and I've only ever done it on reiserfs filesystems, but the steps you suggest look logical to me. I think resizing resierfs volumes can be done without unmounting first, but I don't know if that applies to ext3 volumes. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 14:10:50 2009 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:10:50 -0400 Subject: question about resizing partitions under lvm In-Reply-To: <7ac602420906270639r661d8117pd3c3d7d0b55ff7f1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <5bef4baf0906261433n3f02914brc7fa2c9ea0bc621f@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420906270639r661d8117pd3c3d7d0b55ff7f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: This will help: http://www.netadmintools.com/art367.html GParted is included in the SystemRescueCD live distro - very very handy to have. LVM makes expanding reducing a logical volume quite easy (you do not use fdisk). Sometimes is is easier to just rsync the contents of the partition to shrink somewhere else locally, remove the lv, expand the other lv, then recreate it. That way you actually back it up. So you would rsync -avn --progress /var /usr/local (the -n lets you do a test run to make sure it creates "the /usr/local/var" directory, instead of plopping the contents of /var into /usr/local - once you get it right, remove the -n) John On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Ian Petersen wrote: > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Richard Dice wrote: > > Since I've not done this before, I wanted to get a basic sanity check out > > there from people who are hopefully more familiar with this kind of > thing. > > My plan is (in pseudocode): > > > > umount /var > > resize2fs /dev/mapper/vg00-var -100G > > lvreduce /dev/mapper/vg00-var -100G > > umount /home > > lvextend /dev/mapper/vg00-home +100G > > resize2f /dev/mapper/vg00-home +100G > > mount /home > > mount /var > > > > Does this make sense? Do I need to worry about whether the /home and > /var > > partitions are adjacent, given that I'm doing this all under lvm? > > I've only ever made partitions larger by allocating > previously-unallocated space, and I've only ever done it on reiserfs > filesystems, but the steps you suggest look logical to me. I think > resizing resierfs volumes can be done without unmounting first, but I > don't know if that applies to ext3 volumes. > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 15:31:34 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 11:31:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: small flash cards for low price? In-Reply-To: <4A4616D6.9040604-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <108369.60387.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A45AC48.6090603@primus.ca> <4A45C409.8030308@gmail.com> <4A45D6B6.8040108@primus.ca> <4A45D9B3.6020506@gmail.com> <4A4614A8.5070909@utoronto.ca> <4A4616D6.9040604@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Zbigniew Koziol | Jamon Camisso wrote: | > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: | > > George Nicol wrote: | > > > I apologize. That was, indeed, bad form. Lame. | > > > | > > > Politely and sincerely: Please stop messing up our threaded | > > > conversations. | > > | > > I do the most obvious thing that one could do. I hit reply and change | > > subject. If this is causing problems than the software for archives does | > > not work properly. The mailing list itself does work properly. | > | > I disagree. You are not replying by starting a new thread. In fact, by | > hitting reply you are breaking things since RFC822 4.6.2 specifies that | > messages can contain an optional In-Reply-To field in their header. Since | > you are using Thunderbird and it adheres to the RFC (at least 4.6.2), the | > most obvious thing (for you) breaks things (for everyone else). | > | | Then report the bug to Thunderbird. | | Excuse me please. Zbigniew: Thunderbird is doing exactly what it should do. You are using the reply command when in fact you are not replying. Your new topic is not related to the message and yet you are declaring that it is. What you are doing is not the standard protocol and it is making things worse for other people. In what way do you think what you are doing is appropriate and useful? You've been asked rudely and you've been asked nicely to conform to reasonable conventions. Is there a reason not to do so? I'm sure we would excuse you if you could give an explanation that seemed reasonable. The usual excuse ("I didn't know any better") appears not to apply, at least not any more. Notice that I've changed the Subject (to fix your spelling) without starting a new thread. This is an example of how changing the Subject does not change the thread. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 15:47:28 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:47:28 +0400 Subject: small flash cards for low price? In-Reply-To: References: <108369.60387.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A45AC48.6090603@primus.ca> <4A45C409.8030308@gmail.com> <4A45D6B6.8040108@primus.ca> <4A45D9B3.6020506@gmail.com> <4A4614A8.5070909@utoronto.ca> <4A4616D6.9040604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A463F10.4090105@gmail.com> I believe we are talking about linucs here, or a something close, thats why I consider worth to continue on this subject... D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Zbigniew Koziol > > | Jamon Camisso wrote: > | > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > | > > George Nicol wrote: > | > > > I apologize. That was, indeed, bad form. Lame. > | > > > > | > > > Politely and sincerely: Please stop messing up our threaded > | > > > conversations. > | > > > | > > I do the most obvious thing that one could do. I hit reply and change > | > > subject. If this is causing problems than the software for archives does > | > > not work properly. The mailing list itself does work properly. > | > > | > I disagree. You are not replying by starting a new thread. In fact, by > | > hitting reply you are breaking things since RFC822 4.6.2 specifies that > | > messages can contain an optional In-Reply-To field in their header. Since > | > you are using Thunderbird and it adheres to the RFC (at least 4.6.2), the > | > most obvious thing (for you) breaks things (for everyone else). > | > > | > | Then report the bug to Thunderbird. > | > | Excuse me please. > > Zbigniew: > > Thunderbird is doing exactly what it should do. You are using the > reply command when in fact you are not replying. Your new topic is > not related to the message and yet you are declaring that it is. > > What you are doing is not the standard protocol and it is making > things worse for other people. In what way do you think what you are > doing is appropriate and useful? > > You've been asked rudely and you've been asked nicely to conform to > reasonable conventions. Is there a reason not to do so? > > I'm sure we would excuse you if you could give an explanation that > seemed reasonable. The usual excuse ("I didn't know any better") > appears not to apply, at least not any more. > OK, "I didn't know any better". No, I in fact had no idea that the way I am posting to the list causes problems. Am I a good boy now? > Notice that I've changed the Subject (to fix your spelling) without > starting a new thread. This is an example of how changing the Subject > does not change the thread. > Thank you for fixing my spelling ;) Please continue doing that ;) zb. P.s.: Please excuse me in advance: It may happen yet that instead of typing ss.org in "To:" I will hit reply button and change the subject. This may cause third world war on this list and the list may disintegrate in flames. I am so, so... so much, awfully, really, from the deep of my heart, so much indeed that I can not spell that, so... sorrryyyyy! > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 16:59:56 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:59:56 -0400 Subject: wxformbuilder not able to find libs? In-Reply-To: <920782.65217.qm-ocD5SZSfVax+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <920782.65217.qm@web111215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090627125956.1466e8d9@gravid> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 04:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Rajinder Yadav wrote: > > It seems the make file for wxformbuilder still needs work! There is > no make install step. What's its version number? > To fix the problem, I had to define LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the > runtime wxgtk+ and wxformbuilder libs ...starting to get an > understanding how this works. > > I also had to create sym-links to some xml files, if it was not for > the descriptive error messages with path to file, I would not have > figured out the last step. > > I wonder how much time and energy is lost on incomplete steps, the > developers must love to answer FAQ? Even reading the INSTALL notes > didn't help me. Welcome to the wonderful world of open-source software ;) These are the kinds of things you should expect to put up with if the project is still in alpha, beta, or is not at version 1.0 yet. And, some projects are just better documented than others; after a slew of people hop onto the mailing list to ask the same questions, programmers soon learn the value of documentation. Anyway, the LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a common Unix/Linux thing (on other Unix flavors it's known as SHARED_LIB, etc.), it's not tied to any particular project. It's extra search paths for linked libraries, as you now know. It's mostly used for when users want to install things and don't have root access, which I always do because I have access to school machines but no root. For example, I normally install things with a prefix of /home/lanctot . So I have to put /home/lanctot/lib in LD_LIBRARY_PATH and usually have to compile with -I/home/lanctot/inc. There is an alternative if you have root access. Add the link path to /etc/ld.so.conf and then run ldconfig. Some distros even put /usr/local/lib in there by default, and you probably should if you're installing things from source with /usr/local prefix. I can't think of any reason to prefer one over the other, though I'm sure there are reasons. man ldconfig :) Either way, it's not something you'll find in an INSTALL file because it's "common knowledge". So this won't only fix your problems with wxforbuilder.. it will fix all future problems too :) Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 18:28:11 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:28:11 -0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A45D9B3.6020506-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <108369.60387.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A45AC48.6090603@primus.ca> <4A45C409.8030308@gmail.com> <4A45D6B6.8040108@primus.ca> <4A45D9B3.6020506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4664BB.506@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > George Nicol wrote: >> I apologize. That was, indeed, bad form. Lame. >> >> Politely and sincerely: Please stop messing up our threaded >> conversations. > > I do the most obvious thing that one could do. I hit reply and change > subject. If this is causing problems than the software for archives > does not work properly. The mailing list itself does work properly. > The most obvious thing to do is compose a fresh message. If you check the message headers, you'll see a line like "In-Reply_to: <4A45D6B6.8040108-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org>". This number, which came from your reply is used for threading. So, when someone uses threaded view, when reading email, they'll see your new topic mixed in with the old. When you create a new thread, this problem doesn't occur. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 18:32:17 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:32:17 -0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A4616D6.9040604-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <108369.60387.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A45AC48.6090603@primus.ca> <4A45C409.8030308@gmail.com> <4A45D6B6.8040108@primus.ca> <4A45D9B3.6020506@gmail.com> <4A4614A8.5070909@utoronto.ca> <4A4616D6.9040604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4665B1.5020309@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>> George Nicol wrote: >>>> I apologize. That was, indeed, bad form. Lame. >>>> >>>> Politely and sincerely: Please stop messing up our threaded >>>> conversations. >>> >>> I do the most obvious thing that one could do. I hit reply and >>> change subject. If this is causing problems than the software for >>> archives does not work properly. The mailing list itself does work >>> properly. >> >> I disagree. You are not replying by starting a new thread. In fact, >> by hitting reply you are breaking things since RFC822 4.6.2 specifies >> that messages can contain an optional In-Reply-To field in their >> header. Since you are using Thunderbird and it adheres to the RFC (at >> least 4.6.2), the most obvious thing (for you) breaks things (for >> everyone else). >> > > Then report the bug to Thunderbird. > > Excuse me please. Excuse me. Thuderbird is doing what it's supposed to. When you reply to a message, even if you change the subject, the thread remains. So if you reply to message subject ABC and change it to XYZ, anyone using threaded view will find your XYZ message mixed in with the ABC thread. It is the message number, not the message subject that determines this. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 19:30:15 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: small flash cards for low price? Message-ID: <211677.75416.qm@web111209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Zb sounds like things are cool with email =) .. My reply on the flash card was not an attack on your idea. Nothing personal. Don't worry about spelling, I suffer from typos that make for funny reading! ...I account that to quantum flux in my brain where my ideas have not collapsed into a singularity until an observe reads my email ;) Rajinder Sent from my IPhone On 27-Jun-09, at 11:47 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: I believe we are talking about linucs here, or a something close, thats why I consider worth to continue on this subject... D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | From: Zbigniew Koziol | Jamon Camisso wrote: | > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: | > > George Nicol wrote: | > > > I apologize. That was, indeed, bad form. Lame. | > > > | > > > Politely and sincerely: Please stop messing up our threaded | > > > conversations. | > > | > > I do the most obvious thing that one could do. I hit reply and change | > > subject. If this is causing problems than the software for archives does | > > not work properly. The mailing list itself does work properly. | > | > I disagree. You are not replying by starting a new thread. In fact, by | > hitting reply you are breaking things since RFC822 4.6.2 specifies that | > messages can contain an optional In-Reply-To field in their header. Since | > you are using Thunderbird and it adheres to the RFC (at least 4.6.2), the | > most obvious thing (for you) breaks things (for everyone else). | > | | Then report the bug to Thunderbird. | | Excuse me please. Zbigniew: Thunderbird is doing exactly what it should do. You are using the reply command when in fact you are not replying. Your new topic is not related to the message and yet you are declaring that it is. What you are doing is not the standard protocol and it is making things worse for other people. In what way do you think what you are doing is appropriate and useful? You've been asked rudely and you've been asked nicely to conform to reasonable conventions. Is there a reason not to do so? I'm sure we would excuse you if you could give an explanation that seemed reasonable. The usual excuse ("I didn't know any better") appears not to apply, at least not any more. OK, "I didn't know any better". No, I in fact had no idea that the way I am posting to the list causes problems. Am I a good boy now? Notice that I've changed the Subject (to fix your spelling) without starting a new thread. This is an example of how changing the Subject does not change the thread. Thank you for fixing my spelling ;) Please continue doing that ;) zb. P.s.: Please excuse me in advance: It may happen yet that instead of typing ss.org in "To:" I will hit reply button and change the subject. This may cause third world war on this list and the list may disintegrate in flames. I am so, so... so much, awfully, really, from the deep of my heart, so much indeed that I can not spell that, so.... sorrryyyyy! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 19:35:11 2009 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:35:11 -0400 Subject: plasma crashing with ethernet connected Message-ID: <1246131311.3815.6.camel@jimslaptop> Hi I'm running the latest distribution of Kubuntu 9.04 . For some strange reason if I plug an ethernet cable into my laptop Plasma crashes. It works fine if I'm using wireless. If I start plasma in the console this is the error message I get. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Tried tracking the source of error but no luck. Below is the console output. Thanks, Jim plasma(4189) WiredConnectionInspector::accept: true plasma(4189) InterfaceItem::activeConnectionsChanged: "eth0" Active connections: plasma(4189) InterfaceItem::activeConnectionsChanged: "/org/freedesktop/NetworkManager/ActiveConnection/0" "/org/freedesktop/NetworkManagerSettings/0" plasma(4189) InterfaceItem::activeConnectionsChanged: "wlan0" Interface has no active connections plasma(4189) InterfaceItem::activeConnectionsChanged: "wlan0" Interface has no active connections plasma(4189) InterfaceItem::activeConnectionsChanged: "eth0" Active connections: plasma(4189) InterfaceItem::activeConnectionsChanged: "/org/freedesktop/NetworkManager/ActiveConnection/0" "/org/freedesktop/NetworkManagerSettings/0" plasma(4187): Communication problem with "plasma" , it probably crashed. Error message was: "org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply" : " "Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus)" " -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 21:02:54 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: wxformbuilder not able to find libs? Message-ID: <585366.74402.qm@web111211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Marc, I am kind of surprised because wxFormBuilder has made it to version 3.0 with this type of make system. The readme has a section on how to run a script to generate a make file, yet I could not find that script! There seems to be another script I am to run before make, not sure? because I recall it has a prefix pre to whatever it was called (not at my linux box now). About ldconfig, I have been doing things this was, making sure to call it after I do my 'make install', always! So I am still not sure why I need to define and export LD_LIBRARY_PATH, I ended up sticking this into my '/etc/bashrc' files so it would always be set. Now a day later, I don't feel comfortable with this idea so when I get home tonight I will remove it because I don't want to break my system by confusing it to use some other lib. I say this because I had to rebuild glibc so I got one that came with my system and another one from source that I needed to build CodeBlocks my C++ IDE. Possibly the new glibc if loaded will break old apps! I think I need to rebuild (wxFormBuilder) because it's broken. I run the app, I do not see a toolbox to be able to start creating resources. I don't even see that in the menu anywhere! I agree that documentation is poorly lagging in some/many open source projects.... this is my greatest annoyance! The project page has a wiki, I just noticed and I don't see any instructions on how to build from source. Since they also have a forum I will give that a try... I guess none of the developers want to take 5-10 mins out of their time once a day and possibly write up a how to compile and install wxForumBuilder! On the forum now, I am reading someone else having issues on fedora 9 with gcc 4.3 which is going to break with old code because of strictness....lol, love open source! I was almost seduce to install fedora 11, but it will not install on my older system with 384M of ram...I will stick to my base CentOS 5.3 tool chain so I don't waste time and hoping the open source community will catch up with C++ compliant code that will not break on gcc 4.3. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Marc Lanctot wrote: > From: Marc Lanctot > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: wxformbuilder not able to find libs? > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 12:59 PM > On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 04:26:17 -0700 > (PDT) > Rajinder Yadav > wrote: > > > > > It seems the make file for wxformbuilder still needs > work! There is > > no make install step. > > What's its version number? > > > To fix the problem, I had to define LD_LIBRARY_PATH to > point to the > > runtime wxgtk+ and wxformbuilder libs ...starting to > get an > > understanding how this works. > > > > I also had to create sym-links to some xml files, if > it was not for > > the descriptive error messages with path to file, I > would not have > > figured out the last step. > > > > I wonder how much time and energy is lost on > incomplete steps, the > > developers must love to answer FAQ? Even reading the > INSTALL notes > > didn't help me. > > Welcome to the wonderful world of open-source software ;) > These > are the kinds of things you should expect to put up with if > the project > is still in alpha, beta, or is not at version 1.0 yet. And, > some > projects are just better documented than others; after a > slew of people > hop onto the mailing list to ask the same questions, > programmers soon > learn the value of documentation. > > Anyway, the LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a common Unix/Linux thing > (on other Unix > flavors it's known as SHARED_LIB, etc.), it's not tied to > any particular > project. It's extra search paths for linked libraries, as > you now know. > It's mostly used for when users want to install things and > don't have > root access, which I always do because I have access to > school machines > but no root. For example, I normally install things with a > prefix > of /home/lanctot . So I have to put /home/lanctot/lib in > LD_LIBRARY_PATH and usually have to compile with > -I/home/lanctot/inc. > > There is an alternative if you have root access. Add the > link path > to /etc/ld.so.conf and then run ldconfig. Some distros > even > put /usr/local/lib in there by default, and you probably > should if > you're installing things from source with /usr/local > prefix. > > I can't think of any reason to prefer one over the other, > though I'm > sure there are reasons. man ldconfig :) Either way, it's > not something > you'll find in an INSTALL file because it's "common > knowledge". > > So this won't only fix your problems with wxforbuilder.. it > will fix > all future problems too :) > > Marc > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 22:13:19 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: kubuntu 9.04 and ext4 Message-ID: <576627.43044.qm@web111209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I broke down and purchased a little bit more ram for the linux box so I could install a 2nd Linux distro that's a bit more up to date than CentOS 5.3 for my development. I am wondering about using the new ext4 filesystem. To install the kernel in the /boot partition, do I need to use ext3, or can I use ext4. Also is there any noticeable speed difference or advantage of using ext4 vs ext3 filesystem? Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 22:46:48 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:46:48 -0400 Subject: The triumph of Linux as a supercomputer OS | Royal Pingdom Message-ID: <4A46A158.1050907@rogers.com> http://royal.pingdom.com/2009/06/24/the-triumph-of-linux-as-a-supercomputer-os/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 20:08:40 2009 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:08:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Reviving ancient code Message-ID: <8934.99.253.254.243.1246133320.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Back in the early 90's, I worked with ROM staff to refurbish the solar telescope in the McLaughlin Planetarium. (You can still see the shaft poking out of the roof in the south east corner of the building). When the planetarium was closed, the solar telescope was sold and disappeared from view. A week ago I received a query from the Boonshoft Museum of Dayton Ohio. They had purchased the hardware and it had sat around for a long, long time. The hard drive in the original computer was DOA, so they asked if I had the original computer programs. I did, in my basement archives, and sent them off. By my count, the Turbo Pascal code and the 68HC11 assembly language sat in my basement on 3.5 inch floppies, for 17 years before someone needed them again. They tell me that the solar telescope is now partially operational and undergoing commissioning. Anyone else have stories of having to retrieve code from a dusty archive? Can you beat the 17 year interval? ;). Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 27 23:56:23 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The triumph of Linux as a supercomputer OS | Royal Pingdom In-Reply-To: <4A46A158.1050907-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A46A158.1050907@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Jun 2009, James Knott wrote: > http://royal.pingdom.com/2009/06/24/the-triumph-of-linux-as-a-supercomputer-os/ I was actually more surprised to see MS Windows in that list. :-) -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 28 04:47:00 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 00:47:00 -0400 Subject: The triumph of Linux as a supercomputer OS | Royal Pingdom In-Reply-To: References: <4A46A158.1050907@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090628004700.14c56e02.tleslie@tcn.net> i wasnt so shocked by a MS on one of them, i was blown away to see Suse running on 10 of the 20! , wow, now that is amazing. -tl On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:56:23 -0400 (EDT) S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Sat, 27 Jun 2009, James Knott wrote: > > http://royal.pingdom.com/2009/06/24/the-triumph-of-linux-as-a-supercomputer-os/ > > I was actually more surprised to see MS Windows in that list. > :-) > > -- > ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo > /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ > ____/ / / / ____/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 02:24:44 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: wxformbuilder not able to find libs? Message-ID: <148651.2270.qm@web111209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Marc, I figured out I had to build from svn source tree rather than building from the tarball source. There is a script 'create_build_files.sh' that needs to be run before make, and now the app is up and running. Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > From: Rajinder Yadav > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: wxformbuilder not able to find libs? > To: tlug at ss.org > Received: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 5:02 PM > > Hi Marc, > > I am kind of surprised because wxFormBuilder has made it to > version 3.0 with this type of make system. The readme has a > section on how to run a script to generate a make file, yet > I could not find that script! > > There seems to be another script I am to run before make, > not sure? because I recall it has a prefix pre to whatever > it was called (not at my linux box now). > > About ldconfig, I have been doing things this was, making > sure to call it after I do my 'make install', always! > > So I am still not sure why I need to define and export > LD_LIBRARY_PATH, I ended up sticking this into my > '/etc/bashrc' files so it would always be set. Now a day > later, I don't feel comfortable with this idea so when I get > home tonight I will remove it because I don't want to break > my system by confusing it to use some other lib. I say this > because I had to rebuild glibc so I got one that came with > my system and another one from source that I needed to build > CodeBlocks my C++ IDE. Possibly the new glibc if loaded will > break old apps! > > I think I need to rebuild (wxFormBuilder) because it's > broken. I run the app, I do not see a toolbox to be able to > start creating resources. I don't even see that in the menu > anywhere! > > I agree that documentation is poorly lagging in some/many > open source projects.... this is my greatest annoyance! The > project page has a wiki, I just noticed and I don't see any > instructions on how to build from source. Since they also > have a forum I will give that a try... I guess none of the > developers want to take 5-10 mins out of their time once a > day and possibly write up a how to compile and install > wxForumBuilder! > > On the forum now, I am reading someone else having issues > on fedora 9 with gcc 4..3 which is going to break with old > code because of strictness....lol, love open source! > > I was almost seduce to install fedora 11, but it will not > install on my older system with 384M of ram...I will stick > to my base CentOS 5.3 tool chain so I don't waste time and > hoping the open source community will catch up with C++ > compliant code that will not break on gcc 4.3. > > Kind Regards, > Rajinder Yadav > > > --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Marc Lanctot > wrote: > > > From: Marc Lanctot > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: wxformbuilder not able to find > libs? > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Received: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 12:59 PM > > On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 04:26:17 -0700 > > (PDT) > > Rajinder Yadav > > wrote: > > > > > > > > It seems the make file for wxformbuilder still > needs > > work! There is > > > no make install step. > > > > What's its version number? > > > > > To fix the problem, I had to define > LD_LIBRARY_PATH to > > point to the > > > runtime wxgtk+ and wxformbuilder libs ...starting > to > > get an > > > understanding how this works. > > > > > > I also had to create sym-links to some xml files, > if > > it was not for > > > the descriptive error messages with path to file, > I > > would not have > > > figured out the last step. > > > > > > I wonder how much time and energy is lost on > > incomplete steps, the > > > developers must love to answer FAQ? Even reading > the > > INSTALL notes > > > didn't help me. > > > > Welcome to the wonderful world of open-source software > ;) > > These > > are the kinds of things you should expect to put up > with if > > the project > > is still in alpha, beta, or is not at version 1.0 yet. > And, > > some > > projects are just better documented than others; after > a > > slew of people > > hop onto the mailing list to ask the same questions, > > programmers soon > > learn the value of documentation. > > > > Anyway, the LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a common Unix/Linux > thing > > (on other Unix > > flavors it's known as SHARED_LIB, etc.), it's not tied > to > > any particular > > project. It's extra search paths for linked libraries, > as > > you now know. > > It's mostly used for when users want to install things > and > > don't have > > root access, which I always do because I have access > to > > school machines > > but no root. For example, I normally install things > with a > > prefix > > of /home/lanctot . So I have to put /home/lanctot/lib > in > > LD_LIBRARY_PATH and usually have to compile with > > -I/home/lanctot/inc. > > > > There is an alternative if you have root access. Add > the > > link path > > to /etc/ld.so.conf and then run ldconfig. Some > distros > > even > > put /usr/local/lib in there by default, and you > probably > > should if > > you're installing things from source with /usr/local > > prefix. > > > > I can't think of any reason to prefer one over the > other, > > though I'm > > sure there are reasons. man ldconfig :) Either way, > it's > > not something > > you'll find in an INSTALL file because it's "common > > knowledge". > > > > So this won't only fix your problems with > wxforbuilder.. it > > will fix > > all future problems too :) > > > > Marc > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below > 80 > > columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > ? ? ? > __________________________________________________________________ > Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group..? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 02:34:10 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:34:10 -0400 Subject: Reviving ancient code In-Reply-To: <8934.99.253.254.243.1246133320.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <8934.99.253.254.243.1246133320.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: Impressive! were the disks fully restorable, or was some fill-in-the- blank work needed? I've never heard of floppies lasting so long. How were they stored? There may be a lesson in that. (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 27-Jun-09, at 4:08 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Back in the early 90's, I worked with ROM staff to refurbish the solar > telescope in the McLaughlin Planetarium. (You can still see the shaft > poking out of the roof in the south east corner of the building). > When the > planetarium was closed, the solar telescope was sold and disappeared > from > view. > > A week ago I received a query from the Boonshoft Museum of Dayton > Ohio. > They had purchased the hardware and it had sat around for a long, long > time. The hard drive in the original computer was DOA, so they asked > if I > had the original computer programs. I did, in my basement archives, > and > sent them off. By my count, the Turbo Pascal code and the 68HC11 > assembly > language sat in my basement on 3.5 inch floppies, for 17 years before > someone needed them again. > > They tell me that the solar telescope is now partially operational and > undergoing commissioning. > > Anyone else have stories of having to retrieve code from a dusty > archive? > Can you beat the 17 year interval? ;). > > Peter > > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 02:53:22 2009 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Reviving ancient code In-Reply-To: References: <8934.99.253.254.243.1246133320.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <26570.99.253.254.243.1246244002.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> There were 4 copies of the software and documentation, each one on a 3.5" floppy disk. Three were completely readable. One was partially readable. I didn't think of it at the time, but it would have been a good idea to put the backups on different kinds of media. However, CDR had not been invented at the time, and I didn't have tape backup. So I didn't have a lot of choice. Anyway, if it's feasible, multiple backups are somewhat better than one backup. They were stored in a plastic floppy disk container, not sealed, in a reasonably dry Toronto basement. So nothing special about the storage. I had a paper listing of the main turbo pascal control program. Initially, before I found the floppies, I thought they might have to scan and OCR the listing. Fortunately that was not necessary. They were very, very, very, happy to get the software, and I didn't charge them for storage ;). Peter > Impressive! were the disks fully restorable, or was some fill-in-the- > blank work needed? I've never heard of floppies lasting so long. > > How were they stored? There may be a lesson in that. > > > (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) > > On 27-Jun-09, at 4:08 PM, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> Back in the early 90's, I worked with ROM staff to refurbish the solar >> telescope in the McLaughlin Planetarium. (You can still see the shaft >> poking out of the roof in the south east corner of the building). >> When the >> planetarium was closed, the solar telescope was sold and disappeared >> from >> view. >> >> A week ago I received a query from the Boonshoft Museum of Dayton >> Ohio. >> They had purchased the hardware and it had sat around for a long, long >> time. The hard drive in the original computer was DOA, so they asked >> if I >> had the original computer programs. I did, in my basement archives, >> and >> sent them off. By my count, the Turbo Pascal code and the 68HC11 >> assembly >> language sat in my basement on 3.5 inch floppies, for 17 years before >> someone needed them again. >> >> They tell me that the solar telescope is now partially operational and >> undergoing commissioning. >> >> Anyone else have stories of having to retrieve code from a dusty >> archive? >> Can you beat the 17 year interval? ;). >> >> Peter >> >> >> -- >> Peter Hiscocks >> Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto >> http://www.syscompdesign.com >> USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator >> 647-839-0325 >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 03:15:58 2009 From: lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Julian C. Dunn) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:15:58 -0400 Subject: Reviving ancient code In-Reply-To: <8934.99.253.254.243.1246133320.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <8934.99.253.254.243.1246133320.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Back in the early 90's, I worked with ROM staff to refurbish the solar > telescope in the McLaughlin Planetarium. (You can still see the shaft > poking out of the roof in the south east corner of the building). When the > planetarium was closed, the solar telescope was sold and disappeared from > view. > > A week ago I received a query from the Boonshoft Museum of Dayton Ohio. > They had purchased the hardware and it had sat around for a long, long > time. The hard drive in the original computer was DOA, so they asked if I > had the original computer programs. I did, in my basement archives, and > sent them off. By my count, the Turbo Pascal code and the 68HC11 assembly > language sat in my basement on 3.5 inch floppies, for 17 years before > someone needed them again. > Awesome story. It's too bad that we don't have the Planetarium anymore, and that we're supposed to be a "world-class" city -- shame. > Anyone else have stories of having to retrieve code from a dusty archive? > Can you beat the 17 year interval? ;). > This isn't my story, but the recent presentation at USENIX about how some folks got the Unix Version 1 running again was quite impressive: http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix09/tech/full_papers/toomey/toomey.pdf - Julian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 03:19:55 2009 From: lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Julian C. Dunn) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:19:55 -0400 Subject: NAS, RAID, and Linux In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0906230754h2ef2ce9asd7856ded3f91856f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0906230754h2ef2ce9asd7856ded3f91856f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Tyler Aviss wrote: > Does anyone here have an recommendations along the following lines (in > order of importance) > > * NAS drive enclosure > * Linux-friendly > * 1GB/s+ transfer (1x1GB or dual/bonded) > * Reliable > * RAID-1 > * RAID-5 (if >2 disks) > * Convenient size > * Somewhat low power consumption > * Reads drives up to 1.5TB+ > * Runs Linux and/or accessible via SSH (sshfs) > * Data encryption > * Printserver > * Additional eSATA port(s) > * Additonal USB port(s) > Doesn't meet all of your requirements, but what about a D-Link 323 NAS on which you install Linux? http://wiki.dns323.info/ I'm strongly considering replacing my aging FreeBSD server with one of these. Canada Computers even has bundles with your choice of disks. - Julian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 05:34:41 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:34:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: (Montreal) Linux Symposium in two weeks Message-ID: The Ottawa Linux Symposium has migrated to Montreal this year. So now it is simply called "Linux Symposium". Although the organizers are still in Ottawa, they thought a change of venue would be fun. http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2009/ Dates: Monday July 13 to Friday July 17. I'm going. Anyone else? I have not arranged accommodation or even transport. Anyone interested in sharing? PS: I've found the past symposia to be quite worthwhile. Fairly technical. This is not a trade show. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 07:19:39 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 03:19:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: (Montreal) Linux Symposium in two weeks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > PS: I've found the past symposia to be quite worthwhile. Fairly > technical. This is not a trade show. Indeed, it is considered to be one of the pre-eminent Linux conferences in the world, along with Linux.conf.au (http://lca2009.linux.org.au/) and Linux Kongress. It's kind of nice that the 3 top conferences are distributed around the world. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 07:53:47 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 03:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Port 80? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Jun 2009, cameron lord wrote: > > I already did, it still says apache, i hoked up my winxp laptop (sucks) > to my swiches listen port, i have an intrusion problem o.O i found that Very sorry to hear that. > cable modem is all going to 125.16.27.50,and then is being served to > xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx, whichisnt very helpfull at all. so far theyve > downloaded 2.5 TB of my data and i cant stop them, i need to have my > server online at all times! Ok CERT recommended procedure is to take the box down as soon as you identify the intrusion. Yes, life isn't always that simple but bare in mind that the baddies are doing stuff from your box the entire time that we discuss what to do. They could be breaking in to other systems or they might just be sharing warez. Once a system has been compromised _you can never trust it again_. It is a practical impossibility to be sure you have removed all the backdoors the baddies may have put in. The only way to be sure they are gone is to restore from verified good backups[1] or reinstall. If you reinstall then mount any filesystems from the compromised system as "noexec" to be sure that no binary on that filesystem can be executed. You're saying you can't take the server down even true high availability (HA) allows provision for system downtime. True 100% availability isn't possible. 99.999% is very very expensive. Moving forward, when you rebuild I recommend going with virtualisation. Replacing a virtual system is so much easier than reinstalling/restoring a physical system. If you pick the right virtualisation option the performance loss will be negligible. I use OpenVZ (http://wiki.openvz.org/Main_Page) entensively but there are many options here,. [1] You need to search the backup data using the same method you used to locate the compromise on the running system. If you find an intrusion you move to the next oldest backup until eventually you find a clean copy or run out of copies to try. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 07:52:21 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 03:52:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: (Montreal) Linux Symposium in two weeks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The Ottawa Linux Symposium has migrated to Montreal this year. So > now it is simply called "Linux Symposium". Although the organizers > are still in Ottawa, they thought a change of venue would be fun. i think it's more because the ottawa convention centre (rideau centre?) is currently being massively renovated and wasn't available. but that's just what i'd heard. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 14:53:42 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:53:42 -0400 Subject: question about resizing partitions under lvm In-Reply-To: <4A461E0F.6000009-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <5bef4baf0906261433n3f02914brc7fa2c9ea0bc621f@mail.gmail.com> <799BD26A-CDA7-4C50-A042-95FEBA280E24@gmail.com> <4A461768.5020807@utoronto.ca> <5bef4baf0906270611h47f31a75qccf64f5e77b9d687@mail.gmail.com> <4A461E0F.6000009@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20090629145342.GC15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 09:26:39AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Richard Dice wrote: >> resize2fs will let you (think you have to turn off the journal with >> tune2fs, I don't know the details). The tricky part is running fdisk >> after resizing to remove the existing partition and create a new one >> with the smaller size. >> >> >> Jamon, >> >> But does using fdisk apply in the situation I originally described, >> where I said that I'm doing all of this under and lvm environment? The >> various man pages and HOWTOs I've read so far suggest that lvreduce and >> lvextend should take the place of fdisk. Am I right with that? > > That I couldn't say, I was responding to Tyler's question. But take a > look at the gparted live{cd,usb} tool since it shows the commands it is > running in the detailed output. Should give you an idea. I'd imagine if > you're resizing a volume down and want to use the unused space for > another partition fdisk will be involved. No fdisk involved since it is moving space between logical volumes. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 14:55:57 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:55:57 -0400 Subject: question about resizing partitions under lvm In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0906261433n3f02914brc7fa2c9ea0bc621f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <5bef4baf0906261433n3f02914brc7fa2c9ea0bc621f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090629145557.GD15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 05:33:16PM -0400, Richard Dice wrote: > I'm interested in taking 100gb from my /var partition and giving it to my > /home partition. Both partitions are using the ext3 file system and it's > all being co-ordinated by lvm. Here's my partition setups: > > monad:~# df > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > /dev/mapper/vg00-root > 19682584 1130420 17552332 7% / > tmpfs 4056128 0 4056128 0% /lib/init/rw > udev 10240 128 10112 2% /dev > tmpfs 4056128 0 4056128 0% /dev/shm > /dev/md0 482090 58405 398793 13% /boot > /dev/mapper/vg00-home > 196861252 186862044 0 100% /home > /dev/mapper/vg00-tmp 49214272 184428 46529852 1% /tmp > /dev/mapper/vg00-usr 49214272 3638008 43076272 8% /usr > /dev/mapper/vg00-usrlocal > 153796644 4885652 141098488 4% /usr/local > /dev/mapper/vg00-var 196861252 621272 186240008 1% /var > > (There's a mirroring RAID-1 underneath all that too, but I don't think this > is an issue I need to concern myself with.) > > Since I've not done this before, I wanted to get a basic sanity check out > there from people who are hopefully more familiar with this kind of thing. > My plan is (in pseudocode): > > umount /var > resize2fs /dev/mapper/vg00-var -100G > lvreduce /dev/mapper/vg00-var -100G I always feel much safer shrinking the filesystem by more than the lv first, then expanding to fill all space after the fact. I just don't trust the rounding they might do. So I would do a shrink by 105GB, then lvreduce, then resize2fs without a size to fill space again. > umount /home > lvextend /dev/mapper/vg00-home +100G > resize2f /dev/mapper/vg00-home +100G No, just resize to the default, which is all space. > mount /home > mount /var > > Does this make sense? Do I need to worry about whether the /home and /var > partitions are adjacent, given that I'm doing this all under lvm? This appears to be a nice up to date guide: http://www.tcpdump.com/kb/os/linux/lvm-resizing-guide/intro.html -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 14:59:26 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:59:26 -0400 Subject: small flash cards for low prize? In-Reply-To: <4A45D9B3.6020506-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <108369.60387.qm@web111202.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A45AC48.6090603@primus.ca> <4A45C409.8030308@gmail.com> <4A45D6B6.8040108@primus.ca> <4A45D9B3.6020506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090629145926.GE15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 12:34:59PM +0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > I do the most obvious thing that one could do. I hit reply and change > subject. If this is causing problems than the software for archives does > not work properly. The mailing list itself does work properly. No, given your mail client does the correct thing with replies, which is to flag them as a follow up to a given message, what you are doing causes a mess that no software can work around, because you explitly told it this was a reply. You are simply using your mail client incorrectly. So thank you for not using a broken mail client. Now please just try to use it correctly. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 15:05:01 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:05:01 -0400 Subject: kubuntu 9.04 and ext4 In-Reply-To: <576627.43044.qm-LGZSB/hsMXI5A34FEqDeB/u2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <576627.43044.qm@web111209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090629150501.GF15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 03:13:19PM -0700, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I broke down and purchased a little bit more ram for the linux box so I could install a 2nd Linux distro that's a bit more up to date than CentOS 5.3 for my development. > > I am wondering about using the new ext4 filesystem. To install the kernel in the /boot partition, do I need to use ext3, or can I use ext4. Well who knows. The boot loader may or may not like it. Sometimes grub doesn't like ext3 if it isn't clean, so who knows. > Also is there any noticeable speed difference or advantage of using ext4 vs ext3 filesystem? For some things. Now ext4 is not really considered production ready yet, although some people are starting to pretend it is. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 15:07:58 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:07:58 -0400 Subject: (Montreal) Linux Symposium in two weeks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090629150758.GG15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 01:34:41AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The Ottawa Linux Symposium has migrated to Montreal this year. So now > it is simply called "Linux Symposium". Although the organizers are > still in Ottawa, they thought a change of venue would be fun. The old one having been torn down a few weeks after last year's event might have something to do with it too. :) > http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2009/ > > Dates: Monday July 13 to Friday July 17. > > I'm going. Anyone else? I think we have about 8 people going from work. > I have not arranged accommodation or even transport. Anyone > interested in sharing? I think we are all full. :) > PS: I've found the past symposia to be quite worthwhile. Fairly > technical. This is not a trade show. Very useful indeed, and not a tradeshow at all. -- Len SOrensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 16:13:31 2009 From: kevin-4dS5u2o1hCn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:13:31 -0400 Subject: Creating a Linux Distro In-Reply-To: <702703.83276.qm-ocD5SZSfVawA0QRgWO9Mevu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <702703.83276.qm@web111214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A48E82B.2020905@ve3syb.ca> Rajinder Yadav wrote: > I am wondering out aloud, what would it take to create a Linux distro. If you want to tackle this, a good place to start would be the Linux From Scratch web site which can be found at: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 17:20:00 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:20:00 -0400 Subject: bandwidth test for high capacity users Message-ID: <4A48F7C0.50505@tmis.ca> Hi TLUG, http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz this is one one of my servers. My Rogers at home maximum download is 10Mbits/sec.(my times were 1.2MB/sec and about 15 seconds) If I download locally at work, the 20MB download is instant. **** You do not need to do the test if your download bandwidth is less than 60Mbit/sec.**** *** If you can download at 60mbits or more and take take a few seconds of your time, can you tell me 1. how long your download takes in seconds 2. your maximum download bandwidth in mbits (provide this only if you want to) Thank you TIA! /teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 17:33:31 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:33:31 -0400 Subject: bandwidth test for high capacity users In-Reply-To: <4A48F7C0.50505-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4A48F7C0.50505@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4A48FAEB.5050901@alteeve.com> teddy mills wrote: > Hi TLUG, > > http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz > > this is one one of my servers. > > My Rogers at home maximum download is 10Mbits/sec.(my times were 1.2MB/sec > and about 15 seconds) > If I download locally at work, the 20MB download is instant. > > **** You do not need to do the test if your download bandwidth is less > than 60Mbit/sec.**** > *** If you can download at 60mbits or more and take take a few seconds > of your time, can you tell me > > 1. how long your download takes in seconds > 2. your maximum download bandwidth in mbits (provide this only if you > want to) ~2MB/sec on two servers. We've got dual gigabit, but we've also got a lot a data going this way and that. $ wget http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz --2009-06-29 13:30:20-- http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz Resolving files.syncleus.com... 208.92.233.103 Connecting to files.syncleus.com|208.92.233.103|:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK Length: 21082543 (20M) [application/x-gzip] Saving to: `java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz' 100%[===========================>] 21,082,543 2.04M/s in 9.8s 2009-06-29 13:30:30 (2.06 MB/s) - `java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz' saved [21082543/21082543] # wget http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz --13:31:06-- http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz => `java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz' Resolving files.syncleus.com... 208.92.233.103 Connecting to files.syncleus.com|208.92.233.103|:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK Length: 21,082,543 (20M) [application/x-gzip] 100%[===========================>] 21,082,543 1.89M/s ETA 00:00 13:31:16 (1.97 MB/s) - `java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz' saved [21082543/21082543] Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 17:51:52 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:51:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bandwidth test for high capacity users In-Reply-To: <4A48F7C0.50505-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4A48F7C0.50505@tmis.ca> Message-ID: | From: teddy mills | http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz | My Rogers at home maximum download is 10Mbits/sec.(my times were 1.2MB/sec and | about 15 seconds) | If I download locally at work, the 20MB download is instant. | 1. how long your download takes in seconds | 2. your maximum download bandwidth in mbits (provide this only if you want to) To reduce the variables, you should consider telling us the test methodology. Time-of-day may matter given the (undocumented) traffic shaping policies of various actors. Possible script (roughly what I used): # to reduce DNS contribution to the timing ping -c 1 files.syncleus.com # optional: traceroute files.syncleus.com date time wget http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz On one of my machines, connected through a home-built router to Rogers "Extreme" service (I think that is the marketing name). real 0m20.043s user 0m0.094s sys 0m0.597s On a different home-built router, connected bia Bell ADSL to LOOK. real 0m40.725s user 0m0.300s sys 0m1.510s Both were done about 13:35 today. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 18:01:10 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:01:10 -0400 Subject: bandwidth test for high capacity users In-Reply-To: <4A48FAEB.5050901-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4A48F7C0.50505@tmis.ca> <4A48FAEB.5050901@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090629180110.GH15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 01:33:31PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > ~2MB/sec on two servers. We've got dual gigabit, but we've also got a > lot a data going this way and that. > > $ wget http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz > --2009-06-29 13:30:20-- > http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz > Resolving files.syncleus.com... 208.92.233.103 > Connecting to files.syncleus.com|208.92.233.103|:80... connected. > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK > Length: 21082543 (20M) [application/x-gzip] > Saving to: `java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz' > > 100%[===========================>] 21,082,543 2.04M/s in 9.8s > > 2009-06-29 13:30:30 (2.06 MB/s) - `java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz' saved > [21082543/21082543] > > # wget http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz > --13:31:06-- > http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz > => `java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz' > Resolving files.syncleus.com... 208.92.233.103 > Connecting to files.syncleus.com|208.92.233.103|:80... connected. > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK > Length: 21,082,543 (20M) [application/x-gzip] > > 100%[===========================>] 21,082,543 1.89M/s ETA 00:00 > > 13:31:16 (1.97 MB/s) - `java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz' saved [21082543/21082543] Well I only managed to get 3 to 3.6MB/s and that's from a machine with access to a 1Gbps cogent connection and a 1Gbps orion link. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 18:32:31 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:32:31 -0400 Subject: bandwidth test for high capacity users In-Reply-To: <20090629180110.GH15752-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4A48F7C0.50505@tmis.ca> <4A48FAEB.5050901@alteeve.com> <20090629180110.GH15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4A4908BF.9060603@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well I only managed to get 3 to 3.6MB/s and that's from a machine with > access to a 1Gbps cogent connection and a 1Gbps orion link. > Distance doesn't seem to matter, 2 servers, 12 hops each, both 100mbit. One gets 6.72M/s: jamon at phaedrus:~$ time -p wget "http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz" -O - > /dev/null --14:12:46-- http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz => `-' Resolving files.syncleus.com... 208.92.233.103 Connecting to files.syncleus.com|208.92.233.103|:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK Length: 21,082,543 (20M) [application/x-gzip] 100%[====================================>] 21,082,543 6.73M/s 14:12:49 (6.73 MB/s) - `-' saved [21082543/21082543] real 3.08 user 0.02 sys 0.02 The other, ~1.7M/s. Checked from a few other servers, anything going through Allstream to Bell/Sevenl is under 2.0M/s, whereas the 6.74M/s was routed through Teleglobe and then on to Bell/Sevenl. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 18:46:25 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:46:25 -0400 Subject: bandwidth test for high capacity users In-Reply-To: <4A48F7C0.50505-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4A48F7C0.50505@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20090629144625.5e4daf6b.tleslie@tcn.net> i got 2MB/s (max ~2.1MB/s) over various tries, and that was from a server at a Rogers POP, alternating, i was getting 2MB/s to 4.5MB/s downloading a ubuntu iso from MIT (about an average of 3MB/s) from same Rogers POP. (there may be some shaping on my colo servers at rogers POP). -tl On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:20:00 -0400 teddy mills wrote: > Hi TLUG, > > http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz > > this is one one of my servers. > > My Rogers at home maximum download is 10Mbits/sec.(my times were 1.2MB/sec > and about 15 seconds) > If I download locally at work, the 20MB download is instant. > > **** You do not need to do the test if your download bandwidth is less > than 60Mbit/sec.**** > *** If you can download at 60mbits or more and take take a few seconds > of your time, can you tell me > > 1. how long your download takes in seconds > 2. your maximum download bandwidth in mbits (provide this only if you > want to) > > Thank you TIA! > > /teddy > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 18:50:33 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:50:33 -0400 Subject: bandwidth test for high capacity users In-Reply-To: <4A4908BF.9060603-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4A48F7C0.50505@tmis.ca> <4A48FAEB.5050901@alteeve.com> <20090629180110.GH15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A4908BF.9060603@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4A490CF9.1030806@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Well I only managed to get 3 to 3.6MB/s and that's from a machine with >> access to a 1Gbps cogent connection and a 1Gbps orion link. >> > > Distance doesn't seem to matter, 2 servers, 12 hops each, both 100mbit. > One gets 6.72M/s: > > jamon at phaedrus:~$ time -p wget > "http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz" -O > - > /dev/null > --14:12:46-- > http://files.syncleus.com/pub/dANN/binary/java_dann-1.0-bin.tar.gz > => `-' > Resolving files.syncleus.com... 208.92.233.103 > Connecting to files.syncleus.com|208.92.233.103|:80... connected. > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK > Length: 21,082,543 (20M) [application/x-gzip] > > 100%[====================================>] 21,082,543 6.73M/s > > 14:12:49 (6.73 MB/s) - `-' saved [21082543/21082543] > > real 3.08 > user 0.02 > sys 0.02 > > The other, ~1.7M/s. Checked from a few other servers, anything going > through Allstream to Bell/Sevenl is under 2.0M/s, whereas the 6.74M/s > was routed through Teleglobe and then on to Bell/Sevenl. > > Jamon Doesn't look like it's Bell in this case... Here's my traceroute: $ traceroute files.syncleus.com traceroute to files.syncleus.com (208.92.233.103), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets 1 10.255.255.254 (10.255.255.254) 0.247 ms 0.242 ms 0.236 ms 2 gate.iplink.net (192.139.81.95) 0.435 ms 0.453 ms 0.447 ms 3 gi0-2.na01.b010946-1.yyz01.atlas.cogentco.com (38.104.157.93) 1.311 ms 1.556 ms 1.800 ms 4 gi10-2.3866.core01.yyz01.atlas.cogentco.com (38.20.34.149) 1.345 ms 1.342 ms * 5 vl3490.mpd01.yyz01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.5.74) 1.156 ms 1.231 ms 1.295 ms 6 te2-2.mpd01.yyz02.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.5.86) 1.204 ms 1.201 ms 1.169 ms 7 216.191.190.9 (216.191.190.9) 1.160 ms 1.347 ms 1.332 ms 8 199.212.168.222 (199.212.168.222) 2.033 ms 2.037 ms 2.058 ms 9 66.46.7.34 (66.46.7.34) 3.233 ms 3.230 ms 3.223 ms 10 216.191.220.98 (216.191.220.98) 2.334 ms 2.329 ms 2.323 ms 11 client-208-92-235-238.sevenl.net (208.92.235.238) 3.727 ms 4.629 ms 3.524 ms 12 client-208-92-235-245.sevenl.net (208.92.235.245) 4.835 ms 6.453 ms 3.901 ms 13 rachael.syncleus.com (208.92.233.103) 3.629 ms 3.644 ms 3.636 ms Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 19:02:35 2009 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:02:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Reviving ancient code In-Reply-To: References: <8934.99.253.254.243.1246133320.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <5708.99.253.254.243.1246302155.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Awesome story. It's too bad that we don't have the Planetarium anymore, > and that we're supposed to be a "world-class" city -- shame. >> Anyone else have stories of having to retrieve code from a dusty >> archive? >> Can you beat the 17 year interval? ;). >> > This isn't my story, but the recent presentation at USENIX about how > some folks got the Unix Version 1 running again was quite impressive: > > http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix09/tech/full_papers/toomey/toomey.pdf Julian - That's a fascinating paper, thanks for the pointer. We don't have the planetarium, but the Royal Astronomical Society has agreed to operate the David Dunlap Observatory in Richmond Hill. http://observatoryhill.ca/news-details.php?id=37 If you're interested in seeing the big telescope there or observing through amateur telescopes, keep an eye out for announcements on that site or on the RASC Toronto Centre website http://toronto.rasc.ca/ -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 19:23:42 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:23:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? Message-ID: The subject says it all. There are places where the employer owns everything. What is the situation here ? I was unable to find a coherent answer, only discussions so far. I.e. if A works for B and develops a product C independently from his 'daytime' work, which he later markets with D or alone, can B claim ownership ? thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 19:29:07 2009 From: lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Julian C. Dunn) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:29:07 -0400 Subject: Planetarium (was: Re:Reviving ancient code) In-Reply-To: <5708.99.253.254.243.1246302155.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <8934.99.253.254.243.1246133320.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <5708.99.253.254.243.1246302155.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1246303747.2338.5.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 15:02 -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > We don't have the planetarium, but the Royal Astronomical Society has > agreed to operate the David Dunlap Observatory in Richmond Hill. > > http://observatoryhill.ca/news-details.php?id=37 > > If you're interested in seeing the big telescope there or observing > through amateur telescopes, keep an eye out for announcements on that site > or on the RASC Toronto Centre website > > http://toronto.rasc.ca/ That's fabulous news; thanks Peter. I have fond memories of the Dunlap Observatory. I visited it in Grade 4, over twenty years ago, as part of the Peel Summer Academy program. It's great to hear that it will be in good hands. I still wish we had a planetarium downtown, though. :-( - Julian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 19:53:30 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:53:30 -0400 Subject: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1246305210.5689.16526.camel@leon> On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 19:23 +0000, Peter wrote: > The subject says it all. There are places where the employer owns everything. > What is the situation here ? I was unable to find a coherent answer, only > discussions so far. I.e. if A works for B and develops a product C independently > from his 'daytime' work, which he later markets with D or alone, can B claim > ownership ? Pay your lawyer to answer this for you if the answer matters. Details count. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 19:58:58 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:58:58 -0400 Subject: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090629155858.61b87905.tleslie@tcn.net> there is no right answer, without more details, how close is the "product C" to the employers offerings? what agreements have been signed? I have seen a posting at a law firm in Canada that says moonlighting is allowed unless employer has document with employee that states otherwise. This is assuming its not a product on the employeers turf, or, done on employer time, or at their office, etc.... Remember that a company can not stand in the way of any person to make a living (very general rule). They (B) has to show they are damaged by C (or have been or could be (given a reasonable timeframe)). Or there is a legal agreement to not allow "C". There is also the issue of just product vs. IP. IP would be a whole different ball game. Even if you have explicit moonlighting go ahead from "B", if "C" used IP of "B", you would of course be exposed. you can probably get it hammered out with a lawyer for 600-1200$ (they accurately state moonlighting rules to you and provide research of precedence setting cases in past, as well as look at your particular issue). "B" can always try to sue you, its just whether they win? You just want to make sure if they do, it would be frivolous, so you can counter sue, and get a sweet pay day. -tl On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:23:42 +0000 (UTC) Peter wrote: > The subject says it all. There are places where the employer owns everything. > What is the situation here ? I was unable to find a coherent answer, only > discussions so far. I.e. if A works for B and develops a product C independently > from his 'daytime' work, which he later markets with D or alone, can B claim > ownership ? > > thanks, > > Peter > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 20:01:47 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? In-Reply-To: <1246305210.5689.16526.camel@leon> References: <1246305210.5689.16526.camel@leon> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Richard Weait wrote: > On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 19:23 +0000, Peter wrote: > > The subject says it all. There are places where the employer owns > > everything. What is the situation here ? I was unable to find a > > coherent answer, only discussions so far. I.e. if A works for B > > and develops a product C independently from his 'daytime' work, > > which he later markets with D or alone, can B claim ownership ? > > Pay your lawyer to answer this for you if the answer matters. > Details count. i would think that intellectual property issues would have been addressed in whatever employment contract you signed. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 20:18:03 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:18:03 -0400 Subject: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Peter wrote: > The subject says it all. There are places where the employer owns everything. > What is the situation here ? I was unable to find a coherent answer, only > discussions so far. I.e. if A works for B and develops a product C independently > from his 'daytime' work, which he later markets with D or alone, can B claim > ownership ? This tends to depend on the employment contract that you signed, which is almost certain to be different from the employment contract that I signed. It is Highly Common for the relevant details to differ based on the nature of the employment. - I work for a company that develops software, and this sort of organization has a strong tendency to jealously guard their ownership of "everything they can." - One who works for a pizza place likely doesn't have the same kind of zeal surrounding "intellectual property." There is *considerable* variation between these extremes in terms of what kinds of clauses they are likely to put into employee contracts. It's very much worth noting that there are not "universally applied" answers applied throughout provincial or federal jurisdictions - it depends on what the employee agrees to. (Of course, if a would-be employee chooses *not* to agree, that is likely to lead to them deciding they won't become an employee...) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Henny Youngman - "I told the doctor I broke my leg in two places. He told me to quit going to those places." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/h/henny_youngman.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 23:20:26 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:20:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees =?utf-8?b?CXdoaWxl?= employed ? who owns them ? References: Message-ID: Christopher Browne writes: > This tends to depend on the employment contract that you signed, which > is almost certain to be different from the employment contract that I > signed. I did not sign any contract, thanks for all the ideas. This is a theory discussion, to see what the prevailing current is. I know of people in the states who had to sign non-competition agreements that implied that the employer owns everything the employee invents, ideas and all, even if done in his spare time. What is the idea in Canada ? Differences between provinces ? Shurely there must be some legislation about this. I will not spend money on a lawyer until I will get to the point of signing a contract. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 23:27:54 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:27:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: is anyone here using acanac.ca with linux ? References: Message-ID: acanc seems to have a good deal for ADSL on dry pair (or am I reading it wrong). I am curious if anyone is using them ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 29 23:46:09 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:46:09 -0400 Subject: is anyone here using acanac.ca with linux ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Where do you live? I found that even with the best ISP, Bell can ruin it (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) On 29-Jun-09, at 7:27 PM, Peter wrote: > acanc seems to have a good deal for ADSL on dry pair (or am I > reading it wrong). > I am curious if anyone is using them ? > > Peter > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 00:46:56 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:46:56 -0400 Subject: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? In-Reply-To: <20090629155858.61b87905.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20090629155858.61b87905.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20090629204656.324251bc.hgibson@eol.ca> On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:58:58 -0400 ted leslie wrote: > there is no right answer, without more details, > how close is the "product C" to the employers offerings? > what agreements have been signed? > > I have seen a posting at a law firm in Canada that says moonlighting is allowed unless employer has document with employee that > states otherwise. This is assuming its not a product on the employeers turf, or, done on employer time, or at their office, etc.... Ted, I have seen this discussion on some engineering blogs. An engineer moonlights, using the company's CAD software to do design. The system is built and it fails and someone is physically injured. A lawyer goes looking for the idiot responsible, preferably an insured idiot. The customer is not insured. The moonlighting engineer is not insured. The moonlighting engineer's employer _is_ insured. In court, it will be argued that they should have supervised their engineer. There is the ethical issue of using expensive company resources to complete with people who have to pay for their tools. SolidWorks goes for something like $7K these days. Support is something like $1500 a year. Decent FEA software starts at around $10K, and $30K is no problem, depending on the modeling you want to do. Even the computers are high end. CAD video cards are way more expensive then video game cards. Legally, your activities may fall under the Professional Engineer's act. Practising engineering, if you are not licensed to do so, is a criminal offense. If the engineer is properly licensed, he purchases his own CAD station with software, and he purchases liability insurance, and he informs his employer that he is moonlighting, these ethical issues go away. If you are a software developer using Free Software tools, these issues are not relevant. If you use your home computer and your own software, your employer's liability is limited. Software does not explode, or fall down and crush people. I do not know what your level of liability is, or your changes are of getting sued. It is still unethical to compete with your employer, and you do need to continue getting your regular work done. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 01:41:26 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: is anyone here using acanac.ca with linux ? Message-ID: <829928.14861.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 6/29/09, Aviss,Tyler wrote: > From: Aviss,Tyler > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: is anyone here using acanac.ca with linux ? > To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" > Received: Monday, June 29, 2009, 7:46 PM > Where do you live? I found that even > with the best ISP, Bell can ruin it > > (sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos) > > On 29-Jun-09, at 7:27 PM, Peter > wrote: > > > acanc seems to have a good deal for ADSL on dry pair > (or am I reading it wrong). > > I am curious if anyone is using them ? > > > > Peter > > > > Yes, they got a good deal. But you also need a good deal of patience. EK > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below > 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 03:29:20 2009 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:29:20 -0400 Subject: Proprietary drivers Message-ID: <20090630032920.GE50771@shell.vex.net> I have a lenovo ThinkPad with ATI X1300 video. The latest proprietary driver that I can download from ATI's support site for it is the Catalyst 9.3 driver. Under Debian Lenny (2.6.26 kernel), it often generates kernel tracebacks when I suspend to RAM. Most of the time it is noticable only in the logfiles but occasionally the system is practically unusable until Xorg is killed and the driver reloaded, which defeats the purpose of using s2ram. Now, if I use the open source driver instead, it wants to set the brightness at the medium setting (which for ThinkPads is too often too dim). The only quick way to adjust the brightness that I've found so far is to switch to a text console, do it there, and switch back. However, about 1 in 20 times, the box just locks up when trying to switch back, necessitating a reboot. Applications such as Google Earth are also much slower. ATI has effectively orphaned my video card, despite the laptop being still under warranty. The Catalyst driver is now at version 9.6, but a number of hardware models including my X1300 "have been moved to the legacy software support structure". I've also got openSuSE and an ancient Ubuntu on the laptop and I'd really like to stick with Debian for now but these driver problems are too disruptive. Another proprietary driver that has recently caused me problems is a Linux driver for a partial network stack from a well-known networking company. It used the MMX or SSE instructions to do it's crypto, but under sufficiently new kernels didn't ensure at interrupt time that it was using the proper context, ergo corrupting MMX or floating point operations in some random process and probably causing random performance stalls in it's communications as well. Again at the mercy of a cathedral. Licenses for these drivers prohibit reverse engineering and while I can appreciate these companies wanting to protect their investments in IP, there is a problem when this interferes with interoperability. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 05:13:27 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: GNU Tool-Chain Message-ID: <292596.14271.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> If I wanted to learn more about what types of build tools are available and what they do as well as how to use them, is there any good sources or books available that discuss them hopefully in some detail? __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer? 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 05:28:00 2009 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:28:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: PHP Message-ID: <64b8391116a18367e46f209dc0e16734.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Hey all, Does anyone know the difference between "Programming PHP" and "Learning PHP5". Both are published by O'reilly. Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 06:33:55 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 02:33:55 -0400 Subject: PHP In-Reply-To: <64b8391116a18367e46f209dc0e16734.squirrel-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg@public.gmane.org> References: <64b8391116a18367e46f209dc0e16734.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> Message-ID: <20090630063355.GA7225@yam.witteman.ca> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 01:28:00AM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: > >Does anyone know the difference between "Programming PHP" and "Learning >PHP5". Both are published by O'reilly. Assuming that it is like any other "learning/programming" O'Reilly books, the Learning title is a beginner book that covers the basics, and the Programming book assumes you can already program, and just need to know how the language works, the pitfalls and the details. There is usually a much larger section explaining the common or included libraries as well. The Programming book will also be three times thicker, and a better value/reference than the Learning book. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 14:20:15 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? In-Reply-To: <20090629204656.324251bc.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20090629155858.61b87905.tleslie@tcn.net> <20090629204656.324251bc.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Howard Gibson wrote: > Software does not explode, or fall down and crush people. Software may be used to control something that explode or fall down and crush people, though. The question is whether the liability fall into the person who put the software in control or the maker of the software (assuming they are different person). -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 14:47:33 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? Message-ID: <825790.76614.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Replace software with gun, I wonder what the NRA would think of it... In fact what about a car? We don't hold a maufacture responsible, so why should developers be held accountable? Unless the software is designed to cause harm, then it is the act that is criminal from inception. Software could be designed to control explosion as in the timing of an engine, parts of the software could be redeployed for other purpose, like Hollywood FX and blowing things real big with different timing ;) ... Obviously the software designer or developer cannot be held to account for its use. Infact one could argue they used Linux to run the software and now more developers are exposed if we contiune with the logic? Rajinder Sent from my IPhone On 30-Jun-09, at 10:20 AM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Howard Gibson wrote: Software does not explode, or fall down and crush people. Software may be used to control something that explode or fall down and crush people, though. The question is whether the liability fall into the person who put the software in control or the maker of the software (assuming they are different person). -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 14:56:54 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:56:54 -0400 Subject: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? In-Reply-To: <825790.76614.qm-LGZSB/hsMXJ+W+z1sZEpBPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <825790.76614.qm@web111205.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Rajinder Yadav wrote: > Replace software with gun, I wonder what the NRA would think of it... In fact what about a car? We don't hold a maufacture responsible, so why should developers be held accountable? > > Unless the software is designed to cause harm, then it is the act that is criminal from inception. Ah, but that misses some legal details about what's happening here, and in law, the details really do matter... 1. None of this has been speaking to criminal matters, only to civil matters, and that's rather important as they are *very* different branches of law... 2. In the "sue the engineer's employer" case, the point isn't whether the employer is properly expected (in situ) to be considered responsible. It is, instead, that a legal argument is constructed as follows: - Some kind of damage was done, hence we'd like to sue someone... - The engineer has an employer that has deep enough pockets to be worth suing... - Can we fabricate a legal argument to say that the employer is responsible for the employee's actions, so we can access their pockets? Evidently, such an argument can be made, and possibly even believed by a court... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html George Burns - "I would go out with women my age, but there are no women my age." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_burns.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 15:07:55 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:07:55 -0400 Subject: is anyone here using acanac.ca with linux ? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280906300758l22874b98s2709881b5db66156-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <829928.14861.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <1f13df280906300758l22874b98s2709881b5db66156@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570906300807m54b4f7c2l167513abead18180@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:58, Giles Orr wrote: > 2009/6/29 E K : > I'm also interested in Acanac's statement (http://acanac.ca/DSL.html): > > "No Blocked Ports or Traffic Shapping" [sic] > > They're still using Bell's lines, and Bell still does traffic shaping, > right? ?They can't prevent that, which means any claim of "no traffic > shaping" is a bit disingenuous. ?If your upstream provider does it, > just because you don't doesn't mean it's not happening. > > Or maybe they're telling the truth: since no one knows what "shapping" > is they can say with some surety that they're not doing it. > I think for every other company who uses Bell's DSL for their subscriber base traffic shaping is done at the server level at Bell, but for people who use Bell DSL directly from Bell it appears the blocked ports at least are somehow being blocked through the modem. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 15:34:13 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How about creating / developing FOSS? Re: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Peter wrote: > I.e. if A works for B and develops a product C independently > from his 'daytime' work, I thought about this before related to FOSS: if C above publishes the software products under a FOSS license, will that hold? Can instead B claim ownership and invalidate that FOSS release? Ok obviously this depend on the contract, but for the sake of argument let's say the contract is the most evil one where B is a software company and claim ownership of everything C make. Will that contract hold against the published FOSS? I think this is important since if that kind of contract can make employer own the software developed under FOSS license, means everybody involved in FOSS project must be careful about their contract employment, and a FOSS project coordinator must be careful about the employment of everybody donating to the project. Go up the ladder a bit, how about when C see a need for a tool or library in his/her job, but instead develop it in-house and let B own it, C start a new project in his/her own time (let's in a vacation), using entirely his/her own tool, to develop that tool / library as a FOSS. Later C use that tool / library in his/her job with B (let's say B do allow using external FOSS tool / library in the job). Will this work or can B claim ownership? In a related issue, what if C get a GPL library (not from C) for his/her software project in B, and without consulting to B publish the resulting software (which obviously will be required to be GPL). Beside the fact that C maybe breaking its contract and B can discipline C, can B "retract" the publication of the resulting software under GPL? -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 15:52:40 2009 From: devguy-DaQTI0RpDDMAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:52:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? Message-ID: <904707.39845.qm@web111209.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Christopher, you're absolutely right about how that! Kind Regards, Rajinder Yadav --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Christopher Browne wrote: > From: Christopher Browne > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 10:56 AM > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:47 AM, > Rajinder Yadav > wrote: > > Replace software with gun, I wonder what the NRA would > think of it... In fact what about a car? We don't hold a > maufacture responsible, so why should developers be held > accountable? > > > > Unless the software is designed to cause harm, then it > is the act that is criminal from inception. > > Ah, but that misses some legal details about what's > happening here, > and in law, the details really do matter... > > 1.? None of this has been speaking to criminal > matters, only to civil > matters, and that's rather important as they are *very* > different > branches of law... > > 2.? In the "sue the engineer's employer" case, the > point isn't whether > the employer is properly expected (in situ) to be > considered > responsible. > > It is, instead, that a legal argument is constructed as > follows: > > - Some kind of damage was done, hence we'd like to sue > someone... > > - The engineer has an employer that has deep enough pockets > to be worth suing... > > - Can we fabricate a legal argument to say that the > employer is > responsible for the employee's actions, so we can access > their > pockets? > > Evidently, such an argument can be made, and possibly even > believed by > a court... > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > George Burns? - "I would go out with women my age, but > there are no > women my age." - > http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_burns.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? > Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 15:55:59 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:55:59 -0400 Subject: is anyone here using acanac.ca with linux ? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280906300758l22874b98s2709881b5db66156-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <829928.14861.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <1f13df280906300758l22874b98s2709881b5db66156@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4A358F.5030201@utoronto.ca> Giles Orr wrote: > 2009/6/29 E K : >>> On 29-Jun-09, at 7:27 PM, Peter >>> wrote: >>> >>>> acanc seems to have a good deal for ADSL on dry pair >>> (or am I reading it wrong). >>>> I am curious if anyone is using them ? >> Yes, they got a good deal. But you also need a good deal of patience. >> >> EK > > Could you elaborate on this? Have you used their specific service? > Another dry pair service? What were the problems? > > For those interested: > > http://acanac.ca/NakedDSL.htm > > Cost is stated as "$8 more" - presumably above and beyond regular DSL > service, and I'd guess you'd have to get the more expensive ADSL at > $30 per month. So yes, a good deal. Enough to make me think about > getting off my land line and actually getting a cell for the first > time in years. But I'm spoiled by teksavvy (when not disrupted by > Bell). > > I'm also interested in Acanac's statement (http://acanac.ca/DSL.html): > > "No Blocked Ports or Traffic Shapping" [sic] > > They're still using Bell's lines, and Bell still does traffic shaping, > right? They can't prevent that, which means any claim of "no traffic > shaping" is a bit disingenuous. If your upstream provider does it, > just because you don't doesn't mean it's not happening. > > Or maybe they're telling the truth: since no one knows what "shapping" > is they can say with some surety that they're not doing it. > Teksavvy just rolled out single and multilink mlppp, wonder if acanac offer it now too? (mlppp works around Bell's shaping). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 16:12:15 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How about creating / developing FOSS? Re: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: > If the employee was not permitted to release the code, then > that has adverse results all around. > > This is something I have specifically discussed with my > company's HR department, as it would cause Major Heartburn to > be unable to contribute to free software projects. Well, this make sense if you develop the software in company time. Will this still apply when you contribute to FOSS in your own time? > People can always lie, People may not realize it. It is probably not a common sense that what you do in your spare time with your own tool can be owned by your employer. So one may contribute to a FOSS project not knowing that. Later after few years, the company may realize that (or some other lawyer suing the company), and seize all the work contributed not only by that employee but all works done on the top of it by others, rendering several years of works gone. This obviously assuming the law works that way (which is my question). -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 16:05:28 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:05:28 -0400 Subject: How about creating / developing FOSS? Re: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:34 AM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, Peter wrote: >> >> I.e. if A works for B and develops a product C independently from his >> 'daytime' work, > > I thought about this before related to FOSS: if C above publishes the > software products under a FOSS license, will that hold? Can instead B claim > ownership and invalidate that FOSS release? Ok obviously this depend on the > contract, but for the sake of argument let's say the contract is the most > evil one where B is a software company and claim ownership of everything C > make. Will that contract hold against the published FOSS? Yes, I expect that it would. If the employee was not permitted to release the code, then that has adverse results all around. This is something I have specifically discussed with my company's HR department, as it would cause Major Heartburn to be unable to contribute to free software projects. > I think this is important since if that kind of contract can make employer > own the software developed under FOSS license, means everybody involved in > FOSS project must be careful about their contract employment, and a FOSS > project coordinator must be careful about the employment of everybody > donating to the project. Projects don't tend to directly pay attention to the details; the "scalable" way is to ask contributors to verify that they have permission to release their code to the project. People can always lie, but this isn't the sort of place where that is too likely to happen terribly much. And it's a mighty public lie, in some important senses. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Alfred Hitchcock - "Television has brought back murder into the home - where it belongs." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/alfred_hitchcock.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 16:27:31 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:27:31 -0400 Subject: How about creating / developing FOSS? Re: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 12:12 PM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > > On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: >> >> If the employee was not permitted to release the code, then that has adverse results all around. >> >> This is something I have specifically discussed with my company's HR department, as it would cause Major Heartburn to be unable to contribute to free software projects. > > Well, this make sense if you develop the software in company time. Will this still apply when you contribute to FOSS in your own time? If your employment contract indicates that intellectual property belongs to the employer, then yes. >> >> People can always lie, > > People may not realize it. It is probably not a common sense that what you do in your spare time with your own tool can be owned by your employer. So one may contribute to a FOSS project not knowing that. Later after few years, the company may realize that (or some other lawyer suing the company), and seize all the work contributed not only by that employee but all works done on the top of it by others, rendering several years of works gone. This obviously assuming the law works that way (which is my question). Free software projects have had this issue as one of their concerns for a Very Long Time.? For instance, the FSF has required copyright assignment as documented for many years now. Quoting the relevant bits: "Before incorporating significant changes, make sure that the person who wrote the changes has signed copyright papers and that the Free Software Foundation has received and signed them. We may also need an employer's disclaimer from the person's employer." Maintainers of significant projects *know* they need to ask about this. There is the classic dictum: "ignorance of the law is no excuse." Failure to bother to read your employment contract isn't a particularly good excuse, either. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Fred Allen ?- "California is a fine place to live - if you happen to be an orange." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 16:26:00 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:26:00 -0400 Subject: Proprietary drivers In-Reply-To: <20090630032920.GE50771-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20090630032920.GE50771@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <20090630162559.GI15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:29:20PM -0400, Steve Harvey wrote: > I have a lenovo ThinkPad with ATI X1300 video. The latest > proprietary driver that I can download from ATI's support site > for it is the Catalyst 9.3 driver. Under Debian Lenny (2.6.26 > kernel), it often generates kernel tracebacks when I suspend > to RAM. Most of the time it is noticable only in the logfiles > but occasionally the system is practically unusable until > Xorg is killed and the driver reloaded, which defeats the > purpose of using s2ram. Do the 8-12 drivers that Lenny comes with not support the X1300? > Now, if I use the open source driver instead, it wants to > set the brightness at the medium setting (which for ThinkPads > is too often too dim). The only quick way to adjust the brightness > that I've found so far is to switch to a text console, do it > there, and switch back. However, about 1 in 20 times, the box > just locks up when trying to switch back, necessitating a reboot. > Applications such as Google Earth are also much slower. > > ATI has effectively orphaned my video card, despite the > laptop being still under warranty. The Catalyst driver is now > at version 9.6, but a number of hardware models including my > X1300 "have been moved to the legacy software support > structure". > > I've also got openSuSE and an ancient Ubuntu on the laptop > and I'd really like to stick with Debian for now but these > driver problems are too disruptive. Well nvidia at least maintains legacy drivers for old cards. No idea if ATI does the same or not. If my past experience with them is anything to go by, then they won't, because they really don't care much about anything but current customers. I hope they change that at some point. > Another proprietary driver that has recently caused me > problems is a Linux driver for a partial network stack from a > well-known networking company. It used the MMX or SSE > instructions to do it's crypto, but under sufficiently new kernels > didn't ensure at interrupt time that it was using the proper > context, ergo corrupting MMX or floating point operations > in some random process and probably causing random > performance stalls in it's communications as well. Again > at the mercy of a cathedral. MMX and floating point is not permitted in kernel space on linux. Any attempt to do so is bound to get into trouble. > Licenses for these drivers prohibit reverse engineering > and while I can appreciate these companies wanting to > protect their investments in IP, there is a problem when > this interferes with interoperability. AMD/ATI claims to be releasing specs, but I don't know for which chips they are going to do it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 16:26:52 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:26:52 -0400 Subject: is anyone here using acanac.ca with linux ? In-Reply-To: <4A4A358F.5030201-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <829928.14861.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <1f13df280906300758l22874b98s2709881b5db66156@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A358F.5030201@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <7c50d3570906300926t130848cct31fc16462843703c@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:55, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Teksavvy just rolled out single and multilink mlppp, wonder if acanac offer > it now too? (mlppp works around Bell's shaping). > > Jamon If that's the case then I need to get rid of Bell for 'Net access, I had to get rid of Rogers because my 'Net connection was constantly going down for days at a time. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 16:47:12 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:47:12 -0400 Subject: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? In-Reply-To: <20090629204656.324251bc.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20090629155858.61b87905.tleslie@tcn.net> <20090629204656.324251bc.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20090630164712.GJ15752@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 08:46:56PM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > I have seen this discussion on some engineering blogs. An engineer moonlights, using the company's CAD software to do design. The system is built and it fails and someone is physically injured. A lawyer goes looking for the idiot responsible, preferably an insured idiot. The customer is not insured. The moonlighting engineer is not insured. The moonlighting engineer's employer _is_ insured. In court, it will be argued that they should have supervised their engineer. > > There is the ethical issue of using expensive company resources to complete with people who have to pay for their tools. SolidWorks goes for something like $7K these days. Support is something like $1500 a year. Decent FEA software starts at around $10K, and $30K is no problem, depending on the modeling you want to do. Even the computers are high end. CAD video cards are way more expensive then video game cards. > > Legally, your activities may fall under the Professional Engineer's act. Practising engineering, if you are not licensed to do so, is a criminal offense. If it is in fact a criminal offence, then the rules about engineering are even more idiotic than I thought they were. > If the engineer is properly licensed, he purchases his own CAD station with software, and he purchases liability insurance, and he informs his employer that he is moonlighting, these ethical issues go away. > > If you are a software developer using Free Software tools, these issues are not relevant. If you use your home computer and your own software, your employer's liability is limited. Software does not explode, or fall down and crush people. I do not know what your level of liability is, or your changes are of getting sued. > > It is still unethical to compete with your employer, and you do need to continue getting your regular work done. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 16:48:49 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cross-platform GUI mail client that support maildir? Message-ID: Hi! I am looking for an application which are: - a mail client, - a FOSS, - GUI, - cross platform (including MS Windows and Linux/UNIXes), - support IMAP well, - the Linux/UNIXes port support maildir. Any suggestion what software can fit the bill? Evolution seems close, except that from what I read the MS Windows port still have some issues. Any comment? BTW, I am looking since I have a relative who wants to get new mail client, so good time to introduce a FOSS one. However, this may make me the first point of support, so I better introduce a software that I myself can use. :-) Thanks! -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 16:54:48 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:54:48 -0400 Subject: cross-platform GUI mail client that support maildir? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7c50d3570906300954t2e78eabegb59516f0a70e2f5a@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 12:48, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Hi! > > I am looking for an application which are: > ?- a mail client, > ?- a FOSS, > ?- GUI, > ?- cross platform (including MS Windows and Linux/UNIXes), > ?- support IMAP well, > ?- the Linux/UNIXes port support maildir. > > Any suggestion what software can fit the bill? Evolution seems close, except > that from what I read the MS Windows port still have some issues. Any > comment? > > BTW, I am looking since I have a relative who wants to get new mail client, > so good time to introduce a FOSS one. However, this may make me the first > point of support, so I better introduce a software that I myself can use. > :-) > > Thanks! Doesn't Mozilla's Thunderbird do all that? -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 17:08:02 2009 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:08:02 -0400 Subject: cross-platform GUI mail client that support maildir? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090630130802.5c007693@gravid> On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:48:49 -0400 (EDT) S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Hi! > > I am looking for an application which are: > - a mail client, > - a FOSS, > - GUI, > - cross platform (including MS Windows and Linux/UNIXes), > - support IMAP well, > - the Linux/UNIXes port support maildir. > > Any suggestion what software can fit the bill? Evolution seems > close, except that from what I read the MS Windows port still > have some issues. Any comment? And ... Evolution .... is .... huge and ... s ... l ... o ... w ... > BTW, I am looking since I have a relative who wants to get new > mail client, so good time to introduce a FOSS one. However, this > may make me the first point of support, so I better introduce a > software that I myself can use. :-) Someone pointed me to Claws recently as a replacement for Tunderbird. I'm quite happy so far, mainly because it isn't as bloated/inefficient as TB is. It's built on GTK+. It has a maildir plugin but it isn't maintained, so they are asking anybody who uses it to consider also maintaining it: http://www.claws-mail.org/faq/index.php/Plugins#I_love_maildir_format._Is_there_a_useful_replacement_in_Claws_Mail.2C_which_is_better_than_the_maildir_plugin_.3F There is a Windows version part of gpg4win (never heard of it myself): http://www.claws-mail.org/win32/ So I can't comment on how well it works with maildir and/or Windows, but I've been using it for about a month now in Linux with IMAP and I think it will become my new choice for mailers. Two features worth highlighting: - IMAP filters work well (they can move incoming messages to IMAP folders) - Searching through mail is even faster than in TB, which I thought was the fastest client out there Marc -- A computer without Windows is like chocolate cake without mustard. -- Unknown -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 17:41:58 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:41:58 -0400 Subject: cross-platform GUI mail client that support maildir? In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570906300954t2e78eabegb59516f0a70e2f5a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570906300954t2e78eabegb59516f0a70e2f5a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4A4E66.3040003@utoronto.ca> Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 12:48, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: >> Hi! >> >> I am looking for an application which are: >> - a mail client, >> - a FOSS, >> - GUI, >> - cross platform (including MS Windows and Linux/UNIXes), >> - support IMAP well, >> - the Linux/UNIXes port support maildir. >> >> Any suggestion what software can fit the bill? Evolution seems close, except >> that from what I read the MS Windows port still have some issues. Any >> comment? >> >> BTW, I am looking since I have a relative who wants to get new mail client, >> so good time to introduce a FOSS one. However, this may make me the first >> point of support, so I better introduce a software that I myself can use. >> :-) >> >> Thanks! > > > Doesn't Mozilla's Thunderbird do all that? It does. Try a 3.x beta as well, much more polished than 2.x imo, faster too. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 18:07:00 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT?] Revamped one-day kernel course available in Toronto. Message-ID: WARNING: Self-promotion alert. You were warned. :-) Hi, folks. As someone else on this list already observed before I even got a chance to mention it, I'm a new columnist over at both linux.com and the Linux Developer Network that's part of the Linux Foundation. My first piece, published only a few days ago, can be read in one of two places: http://linux.com/news/software/linux-kernel/23685-the-kernel-newbie-corner-your-first-loadable-kernel-module http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/article/the-kernel-newbie-corner-your-first-loadable-kernel-module As you can see, this is going to be an ongoing series for people who want to get into kernel programming slowly and gently. The second piece has already been submitted and could be up by the end of the day for all I know, and the plan is for one article per week after that, which I'll announce via Twitter if you want to know the instant it's available. But that's not why I'm here. In addition to the new column (which I am writing out of the goodness of my open source heart), I'm also going to be offering some of my Linux courses through the Linux Foundation (LF). Eventually, as the outlines are approved, they'll show up here: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/training The aim of LF is to concentrate on virtual courses, so I'm slowly rewriting my stuff to be compatible with that, but I'm reserving the right to offer the same stuff locally (Toronto and environs) as single-client, on-site, instructor-led courses. Right now, I'm updating a one-day course in what is essentially the care and feeding of the Linux kernel, whose current outline (still reasonably accurate) can be seen here: http://crashcourse.ca/node/14 It's *not* a course in kernel programming; it's more a leadup to that, as you can see from the outline. I taught that content as part of a longer course a number of times for a Toronto client of mine, and it was always the most popular part of the several days of Linux training. That course content is based quite a bit on Greg Kroah-Hartman's book, "Linux Kernel in a Nutshell," with extra goodies beyond the book added by myself. Quite simply, it's as much crunchy kernel goodness as I can pack into what was normally a *very* long day, all done hands-on with laptops I can supply if necessary, which means that students are quite welcome to make a mess of things, short of melting down the hardware. As you can see, I've priced this day of training stupidly competitively -- a flat rate of $1995 for up to 10 students. This is based on the scenario of a single client having enough people interested in booking the course, but if someone has ideas of perhaps collecting enough interested students to make this fly and providing an Internet-equipped venue, I'm open to the possibility. If you want to chat further, drop me a note offline. Nothing is cast in stone and, if you have only a small group of people you'd like trained, I can be flexible. rday P.S. From experience, I can state that this course is not a leisurely day. It's busy from start to finish, and normally required a full 8am-5pm session, with the client supplying a catered lunch just so students could keep hacking over lunch. In short, it's as much as I can pack into a single day with physically injuring the attendees. :-) -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 18:41:24 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:41:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: How about creating / developing FOSS? Re: what is the =?utf-8?b?CXNpdHVhdGlvbg==?= wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? References: Message-ID: Christopher Browne writes: > If your employment contract indicates that intellectual property > belongs to the employer, then yes. The initial question (mine) was, are such contracts valid in Canada, specifically Ontario, or not, are there precedents, and what's the position on this in this FOSS oriented Linux group, which, as others have astutely noticed, is very much interested in the matter for practical reasons. You seem to know more than many others on this theme. Could you go one step further, if possible, and dot the i's: are they common (the shackle type contracts), or not, and is there a recent enough precedent (FOSS oriented obviously, although I did not imply that in my case that would be connected to FOSS in any way). Along the same lines of thought, is a work contract made with a subsidiary of a, say, US (just hypothetically), company which does business in a US place that *enforces* the 'employer owns all intellectual property created by employees at any time during their period of employment' rule (yes, there are several such), when the contract is made in Canada (with the Canadian subsidiary or directly), enforceable, legal, or ... thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 18:46:19 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:46:19 -0400 Subject: is anyone here using acanac.ca with linux ? In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570906300926t130848cct31fc16462843703c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <829928.14861.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <1f13df280906300758l22874b98s2709881b5db66156@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A358F.5030201@utoronto.ca> <7c50d3570906300926t130848cct31fc16462843703c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4A5D7B.9040700@teksavvy.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:55, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> Teksavvy just rolled out single and multilink mlppp, wonder if acanac offer >> it now too? (mlppp works around Bell's shaping). >> >> Jamon >> > > If that's the case then I need to get rid of Bell for 'Net access, I > had to get rid of Rogers because my 'Net connection was constantly > going down for days at a time. > I was with Teksavvy on DSL with a dynamic IP. I added a WRT54GL with Tomato/MLPPP firmware after seeing Joe Hill's post "Defeating Bell's Traffic Management". Yesterday, I added MLPPP with static IP for an additional $4 a month. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 18:53:30 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:53:30 -0400 Subject: is anyone here using acanac.ca with linux ? In-Reply-To: <4A4A5D7B.9040700-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <829928.14861.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <1f13df280906300758l22874b98s2709881b5db66156@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A358F.5030201@utoronto.ca> <7c50d3570906300926t130848cct31fc16462843703c@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A5D7B.9040700@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570906301153g4d6a11a5v32b67d8c7a072718@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 14:46, Meng Cheah wrote: > I was with Teksavvy on DSL with a dynamic IP. > I added a WRT54GL with Tomato/MLPPP firmware after seeing Joe Hill's post > "Defeating Bell's Traffic Management". > Yesterday, I added MLPPP with static IP for an additional $4 a month. > > Meng So, would anybody suggest then that I get Teksavvy's DSL, because I am getting fed up of shitty download speeds on just about everything. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From unforgiven24-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 18:59:40 2009 From: unforgiven24-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Ward) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:59:40 -0400 Subject: PHP In-Reply-To: <20090630063355.GA7225-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org> References: <64b8391116a18367e46f209dc0e16734.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20090630063355.GA7225@yam.witteman.ca> Message-ID: <5aa434200906301159q2aeb6f9eh771f878f114cad51@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:33 AM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 01:28:00AM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: >> >>Does anyone know the difference between "Programming PHP" and "Learning >>PHP5". Both are published by O'reilly. > > Assuming that it is like any other "learning/programming" O'Reilly > books, the Learning title is a beginner book that covers the basics, and > the Programming book assumes you can already program, and just need to > know how the language works, the pitfalls and the details. ?There is > usually a much larger section explaining the common or included > libraries as well. ?The Programming book will also be three times > thicker, and a better value/reference than the Learning book. > -- > > yours, > > William > Seconding Mr. Witteman here. In the case of Programming Perl and Learning Perl, it's exactly this way. Learning Perl is a beginner's introduction. By contrast, well, "Programming Perl" is sometimes called "The Perl Bible" for a reason. Personally, I'd go for "Programming PHP", but that depends on your own background and whatnot. - Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 19:18:43 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:18:43 -0400 Subject: cross-platform GUI mail client that support maildir? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570906300954t2e78eabegb59516f0a70e2f5a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4A6513.9070701@dinamis.com> On 30/06/09 03:08 PM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Michael Lauzon wrote: >> Doesn't Mozilla's Thunderbird do all that? > > AFAIK Thunderbird does not support local maildir (i.e. use existing > local maildir as mail storage). Please correct me if I am wrong. Why does it matter as long as you're using IMAP? By the way, KMail supports local maildir and allegedly runs on Windows. I've never tried it on Windows but on Linux, IMAP was very slow, which is why I switched to Thunderbird in 2007. I notice that the latest version has some features I find interesting and it seems usable with IMAP so I'll probably switch back at some point. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 19:33:19 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cross-platform GUI mail client that support maildir? In-Reply-To: <4A4A6513.9070701-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570906300954t2e78eabegb59516f0a70e2f5a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A6513.9070701@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Why does it matter as long as you're using IMAP? Well, that is the issue, I would like the mail client to use local maildir instead of IMAP; also preferably in that case the client does duplicate those mails in its own "cache". > By the way, KMail supports local maildir and allegedly runs on > Windows. I guess as part of KDE on Windows . This it what they said, "KDE on Windows is not in the final state, so applications can be unsuitable for day to day use yet." Thanks! -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 19:34:11 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:34:11 -0400 Subject: is anyone here using acanac.ca with linux ? In-Reply-To: <4A4A677D.1000401-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <829928.14861.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <1f13df280906300758l22874b98s2709881b5db66156@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A358F.5030201@utoronto.ca> <7c50d3570906300926t130848cct31fc16462843703c@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A5D7B.9040700@teksavvy.com> <7c50d3570906301153g4d6a11a5v32b67d8c7a072718@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A677D.1000401@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570906301234q1d52e3aeqa230c2d70dd26bf9@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 15:29, Meng Cheah wrote: > Both Bell and Rogers utilize traffic shaping. > Third party providers like Teksavvy are subject to that. > > I am a happy customer of Teksavvy, YMMV. > You can do a search for "Teksavvy" at the TLUG archives, > http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug > > Worst case scenario: Try Teksavvy for a month and judge for yourself. > If you're not satisfied, you're out $29.95 :-) I was with Rogers, and there was no TS going on, I could download from the torrent sites to my hearts content. The only reason why I left is because almost every weekend my connection would drop off the face of the earth for about 2 to 3 days. They even sent a tech at one point who stole from me when I was out of the room. So, how does this MLPPP thing work that I see people mentioning on here, do you get it with Teksavvy or is it something you have to do yourself? -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 19:29:01 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:29:01 -0400 Subject: is anyone here using acanac.ca with linux ? In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570906301153g4d6a11a5v32b67d8c7a072718-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <829928.14861.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <1f13df280906300758l22874b98s2709881b5db66156@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A358F.5030201@utoronto.ca> <7c50d3570906300926t130848cct31fc16462843703c@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A5D7B.9040700@teksavvy.com> <7c50d3570906301153g4d6a11a5v32b67d8c7a072718@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4A677D.1000401@teksavvy.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 14:46, Meng Cheah wrote: > >> I was with Teksavvy on DSL with a dynamic IP. >> I added a WRT54GL with Tomato/MLPPP firmware after seeing Joe Hill's post >> "Defeating Bell's Traffic Management". >> Yesterday, I added MLPPP with static IP for an additional $4 a month. >> >> Meng >> > > So, would anybody suggest then that I get Teksavvy's DSL, because I am > getting fed up of shitty download speeds on just about everything. > Both Bell and Rogers utilize traffic shaping. Third party providers like Teksavvy are subject to that. I am a happy customer of Teksavvy, YMMV. You can do a search for "Teksavvy" at the TLUG archives, http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug Worst case scenario: Try Teksavvy for a month and judge for yourself. If you're not satisfied, you're out $29.95 :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 19:36:13 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cross-platform GUI mail client that support maildir? In-Reply-To: <20090630130802.5c007693@gravid> References: <20090630130802.5c007693@gravid> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Marc Lanctot wrote: > ... Evolution .... is .... huge and ... s ... l ... o ... w > ... Maybe a consequence of trying to mimic Outlook as much as possible... :-) > Someone pointed me to Claws recently as a replacement for > Tunderbird. I'm quite happy so far, mainly because it isn't as > bloated/inefficient as TB is. It's built on GTK+. It has a > maildir plugin but it isn't maintained, so they are asking > anybody who uses it to consider also maintaining it: Having that particular plugin not maintained a bit scary. But for now it seems that Claws is the best choice available. Thanks! -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 19:51:25 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:51:25 -0400 Subject: cross-platform GUI mail client that support maildir? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570906300954t2e78eabegb59516f0a70e2f5a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A6513.9070701@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4A4A6CBD.9000000@dinamis.com> On 30/06/09 03:33 PM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> Why does it matter as long as you're using IMAP? > > Well, that is the issue, I would like the mail client to use local > maildir instead of IMAP; also preferably in that case the client does > duplicate those mails in its own "cache". I don't understand what you want. You said you wanted maildir support, presumably local, on *nix, and you wanted it to "support IMAP well". I still don't see what difference it makes how your MUA stores local mailboxes if you're using IMAP. In Thunderbird, you have the option of specifying if you want the remote mailboxes available for offline use, in which case, it would cache locally. The default is not to do that. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 19:54:01 2009 From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:54:01 -0400 Subject: is anyone here using acanac.ca with linux ? In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570906301234q1d52e3aeqa230c2d70dd26bf9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <829928.14861.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <1f13df280906300758l22874b98s2709881b5db66156@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A358F.5030201@utoronto.ca> <7c50d3570906300926t130848cct31fc16462843703c@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A5D7B.9040700@teksavvy.com> <7c50d3570906301153g4d6a11a5v32b67d8c7a072718@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A677D.1000401@teksavvy.com> <7c50d3570906301234q1d52e3aeqa230c2d70dd26bf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4A6D59.7080105@teksavvy.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 15:29, Meng Cheah wrote: > >> Both Bell and Rogers utilize traffic shaping. >> Third party providers like Teksavvy are subject to that. >> >> I am a happy customer of Teksavvy, YMMV. >> You can do a search for "Teksavvy" at the TLUG archives, >> http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug >> >> Worst case scenario: Try Teksavvy for a month and judge for yourself. >> If you're not satisfied, you're out $29.95 :-) >> > > I was with Rogers, and there was no TS going on, I could download from > the torrent sites to my hearts content. The only reason why I left is > because almost every weekend my connection would drop off the face of > the earth for about 2 to 3 days. They even sent a tech at one point > who stole from me when I was out of the room. > > So, how does this MLPPP thing work that I see people mentioning on > here, do you get it with Teksavvy or is it something you have to do > yourself? > From Teksavvy's email solicitation to current customers: "MLPPP stands for "Multi-Link Point-to-Point Protocol" and gives you the ability to "bond" multiple DSL connections together to act as one fast connection. For example if you have 2 DSL connections at the same residence (or business) with us you can switch to MLPPP and have those 2 connections operate as if they were 1 big connection. Single link connections (people with 1 DSL connection) can simply enable MLPPP in their Windows dialer or purchase supported third party hardware. Third party hardware is required for multiple connections bonded together." I use a WRT54GL with Tomato/MLPPP firmware with a single link connection. From http://fixppp.org/index.php?p=about "Tomato/MLPPP is a fork of the popular Tomato firmware (http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato) for consumer broadband routers. The primary goal is to enable users to bond multiple DSL connections using MultiLink PPP (MLPPP), and/or to circumvent Bell Canada's DPI-based throttling by using MLPPP on a single DSL line. Obviously, your ISP must support MLPPP in order for this firmware to be of any use. Currently, only TekSavvy (http://teksavvy.com) and Velcom (http://www.velcom.ca) are known to support this. Acanac (http://www.acanac.ca) and Electronic Box (http://www.electronicbox.net) are currently working on enabling MLPPP support, to various degrees." You can call Teksavvy re supported third party hardware at 1 877 357 2889. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 19:58:22 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:58:22 -0400 Subject: is anyone here using acanac.ca with linux ? In-Reply-To: <4A4A6D59.7080105-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <829928.14861.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <1f13df280906300758l22874b98s2709881b5db66156@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A358F.5030201@utoronto.ca> <7c50d3570906300926t130848cct31fc16462843703c@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A5D7B.9040700@teksavvy.com> <7c50d3570906301153g4d6a11a5v32b67d8c7a072718@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A677D.1000401@teksavvy.com> <7c50d3570906301234q1d52e3aeqa230c2d70dd26bf9@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A6D59.7080105@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570906301258n64548d31l8901ba209d35cdac@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 15:54, Meng Cheah wrote: > From Teksavvy's email solicitation to current customers: > > "MLPPP stands for "Multi-Link Point-to-Point Protocol" and gives you the > ability to "bond" multiple DSL connections together to act as one fast > connection. For example if you have 2 DSL connections at the same residence > (or business) with us you can switch to MLPPP and have those 2 connections > operate as if they were 1 big connection. > > Single link connections (people with 1 DSL connection) can simply enable > MLPPP in their Windows dialer or purchase supported third party hardware. > > Third party hardware is required for multiple connections bonded together." > > > I use a WRT54GL with Tomato/MLPPP firmware with a single link connection. > > From http://fixppp.org/index.php?p=about > "Tomato/MLPPP is a fork of the popular Tomato firmware > (http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato) for consumer broadband routers. The > primary goal is to enable users to bond multiple DSL connections using > MultiLink PPP (MLPPP), and/or to circumvent Bell Canada's DPI-based > throttling by using MLPPP on a single DSL line. > > Obviously, your ISP must support MLPPP in order for this firmware to be of > any use. Currently, only TekSavvy (http://teksavvy.com) and Velcom > (http://www.velcom.ca) are known to support this. Acanac > (http://www.acanac.ca) and Electronic Box (http://www.electronicbox.net) are > currently working on enabling MLPPP support, to various degrees." > > You can call Teksavvy re supported third party hardware at 1 877 357 2889. I called Teksavvy before this email showed up, didn't know they had an 877 number, so I just paid long distance fees. Anyeverhow.... Teksavvy quoted me a price of around $80 to get MLPPP, they said I'd need a second phone line, etc. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 20:20:38 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cross-platform GUI mail client that support maildir? In-Reply-To: <4A4A6CBD.9000000-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570906300954t2e78eabegb59516f0a70e2f5a@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A6513.9070701@dinamis.com> <4A4A6CBD.9000000@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > I don't understand what you want. You said you wanted maildir > support, presumably local, on *nix, and you wanted it to > "support IMAP well". Sorry. I forgot about that. :-) To clarfiy, it should support IMAP well in MS Windows, and support maildir well in Linux/UNIXes. -- ____ ____ ____ ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo /___ /___/ /___/ /___ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ____/ / / / ____/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 21:05:36 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:05:36 -0400 Subject: How about creating / developing FOSS? Re: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090630170536.9e0a064b.tleslie@tcn.net> I think its infinitely complicated, especially since, a employer and even a knowledgeable lawyer can put in "employer owns all intellectual property created by employees at any time during their period of employment" rule, but can it hold up in court? of course not, its too broad a statement and can't be enforced in any way. if you win 10M$ in vegas at the card tables (and of course you have a system, and that system is your IP), will your employer take your winnings, of course not, extreme example, but it proves the point. ( oh except if your actual job was working on card gambling systems, then maybe :) ) see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause as an example, and especially the Europe examples at bottom (or the California example). many years ago in Canada, people had 2-3 years in NCC, and eventually people fought it (as it restricted their ability to make a living, etc,etc), and those thought to be 2+ years NCC, turned out, by finally fought out precedents setting cases, to all be scrap (except in very special cases). bottom line is, it will come down to, are you damaging the employer with what you did (at the time you were employed with them, or during the enforceable NCC time period), and YOU will probably know this more then anyone! if you are moonlighting in a gray area, you will never get the answer you are looking for, a lawyer will tell you maybe its 50/50 ..... or even 90/10 10/90 ... you are looking for 100% assurance ... if you invented the slinky, while working as a digital designer at intel, you would get your 100% assurance of being in the clear, but if your doing software, and your employer is "doing software" good luck trying to get 100% assurance without spending huge amounts of money. SEE http://www.lbwlawyers.com/publications/writtenemploymentcontract.php "Such restrictive covenants are rigorously examined by the courts as a result of the employee's inequality of bargaining power vis a vis his or her employer. In drafting such clauses, the Employer must be careful to strike a balance between the two primary competing considerations: the right of every individual to earn a livelihood and pursue opportunities in an effort to advance their career versus, the right of employers to protect their legitimate business interests and not to be harmed by the misuses of its proprietary or confidential information." "If an Employer wishes to impose a restrictive covenant such as that regarding moonlighting which is enforceable, that covenant must: (1) protect a legitimate propriety interest such as a trade secret or trade connection; (2) the restraint must be reasonable (the use by an employee of general skill and knowledge cannot be restrained); (3) not be used to solely preserve the employer's competitive advantage (covenant's whose object is solely to prevent competition are void). " The above kinda says it all. Basically, if your not damaging them in any way, you are in the clear. This last paragraph seems to me also to mean, if there isn't a covenant in the EC, you are in the clear, but again, assuming your not damaging them. Perhaps you might want to contact this law firm. -tl On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:41:24 +0000 (UTC) Peter wrote: > Christopher Browne writes: > > > If your employment contract indicates that intellectual property > > belongs to the employer, then yes. > > The initial question (mine) was, are such contracts valid in Canada, > specifically Ontario, or not, are there precedents, and what's the position on > this in this FOSS oriented Linux group, which, as others have astutely noticed, > is very much interested in the matter for practical reasons. You seem to know > more than many others on this theme. Could you go one step further, if possible, > and dot the i's: are they common (the shackle type contracts), or not, and is > there a recent enough precedent (FOSS oriented obviously, although I did not > imply that in my case that would be connected to FOSS in any way). > > Along the same lines of thought, is a work contract made with a subsidiary of a, > say, US (just hypothetically), company which does business in a US place that > *enforces* the 'employer owns all intellectual property created by employees at > any time during their period of employment' rule (yes, there are several such), > when the contract is made in Canada (with the Canadian subsidiary or directly), > enforceable, legal, or ... > > thanks, > > Peter > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 21:59:10 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:59:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: How about creating / developing FOSS? Re: what is the situation wrt. ideas created by employees while employed ? who owns them ? References: <20090630170536.9e0a064b.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: ted leslie writes: > I think its infinitely complicated, especially since, > a employer and even a knowledgeable lawyer can put in > "employer owns all intellectual property created by employees at any time during their period of > employment" rule, > but can it hold up in court? of course not, its too broad a statement and can't be enforced in any way. The reason I am asking all this is among others the fact that I *know* that there are places where the shackle rule is enforced by default (in certain US states, it is implied even if it is not mentioned on the contract), whereas elsewhere (Europe), the employer NEVER EVER owns anything the employee makes outside his work hours (as long as it is unrelated to the work he does), and any such provision would be unenforceable and illegal. So I was trying to understand where the 51st star [*] is standing on this ? Peter [*] evil pun on Canada by an European who is just visiting for now, but looking hard at other options while he is at it - the reason for the pun is that CBC seems to show more of Obama than of Harper somehow - maybe this is subjective, I don't watch it that much ... anyways apologies for any possible insult, it was not meant to be such. Of course the 51st is to mean in addition to the 50 already on the US flag, i.e. the star that decided to stay off the flag, yet seems to belong there in many ways -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 30 23:25:27 2009 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:25:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: PHP In-Reply-To: <5aa434200906301159q2aeb6f9eh771f878f114cad51-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <64b8391116a18367e46f209dc0e16734.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> <20090630063355.GA7225@yam.witteman.ca> <5aa434200906301159q2aeb6f9eh771f878f114cad51@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5fce9a0806cbd1e69266457006384e4c.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:33 AM, William O'Higgins > Witteman wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 01:28:00AM -0400, Jason Carson wrote: >>> >>>Does anyone know the difference between "Programming PHP" and "Learning >>>PHP5". Both are published by O'reilly. >> >> Assuming that it is like any other "learning/programming" O'Reilly >> books, the Learning title is a beginner book that covers the basics, and >> the Programming book assumes you can already program, and just need to >> know how the language works, the pitfalls and the details. ?There is >> usually a much larger section explaining the common or included >> libraries as well. ?The Programming book will also be three times >> thicker, and a better value/reference than the Learning book. >> -- >> >> yours, >> >> William >> > > Seconding Mr. Witteman here. In the case of Programming Perl and > Learning Perl, it's exactly this way. Learning Perl is a beginner's > introduction. By contrast, well, "Programming Perl" is sometimes > called "The Perl Bible" for a reason. > > Personally, I'd go for "Programming PHP", but that depends on your own > background and whatnot. > > - Mike > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > ok, great, thanks for info guys :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists