tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
Thu Jul 23 16:51:00 UTC 2009
Boy, is this an OT-flamebait thread or what.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:30 AM, G. Matthew Rice<matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 10:00 -0400, Darryl Moore wrote:
>> > I am used to say: "the problem is in your own mind!" It seems that no
>> > one does understand that saying...
>> Quite right. It is not what you intended by what you said that matters.
>> It is how it is likely to be received by other people that counts. The
> So, everyone isn't really looking for an apology for zb's views.
> They're asking for an apology to the effect that he is sorry that
> everyone misunderstood him?
> I regularly call a bunch of my children "lil monkeys". I thought that
> they act like monkeys. Now, I think that maybe I'm a racist. ;)
My boy (well, not mine biologically, but inherited via relationship)
is Chinese. I often wonder if somebody is going to jump on me as being
racist for calling him "little monkey", but actually his nickname used
by his relatives and mother is Xiao Houtze (forgive my horrible
mangling of PinYin), or "little monkey" in Chinese. Still, I'm
careful about who I use that phrase around, generally using the
Chinese words in mixed company that might take it the wrong way.
>> If you choose to ignore that and continue to utter statements that you
>> know will offend people, and offer nothing that could be considered
>> insightful at the same time, then you are simply being callous.
And this is the main point. Whether or not the comment was aimed at
persons of a given race or not, and whether an existing racist
black/primate connotation exists, responding to somebody's
contribution with what is basically "only those with the brains of a
monkey would enjoy that crap" is in itself uncalled for and
counter-productive. Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but if
your opinion involves insulting the intelligence or preferences of
others, kindly shut the F*** up and keep it to yourself.
> This is the best point anyone has made so far. Despite the fact that zb
> isn't continuing to utter the statement (I only saw him say it once,
> then went into defensive mode), I think the point to make is that he may
> want to restructure his statement about his view of the quality of rap
> music from "only monkeys could like rap" to something else like "rap is
> shit". Even if only to avoid getting the crap beat out of him someday.
> Although, the other thing no one picked up is that zb admits to knowing
> nothing about music. In that case, zb should just shut up on the
> matter. As Samuel Clemens didn't say:
As per the above, why should a comment of this nature be necessary at
all? I personally have little liking for rap myself, though it varies
on the content of the actual "music" I find that most of what I hear
out there caters to a lifestyle I find little admiration for. Still, I
see little use in responding as such. If you don't like it, don't
watch it. Had it been a country song or anything else, some will like
it, and those that don't need not take the time to insult the
preferences of the provider, unless the content itself is truly
> "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open
> it and remove all doubt."
>> I'm not sure what principle you think you are standing up for. The right
>> to insult others? Hardly seems worth being (rightly) shunned by society.
> As a self-proclaimed non-PC-ist, you don't want to go to far the other
> way, either. I'm comfortable trying to maintain it at "shocking" and
> PS - Is the Coder Girl song link worth clicking on? Or just a schleppy
> amateurish offering similar in the difference between Dilbert and
People have a right to their opinions. What they should also make use
of is the discetion in broadcasting it to others, particularly in a
broadly insulting manner. As mentioned before, the "your
preference/opinion/etc is a worthless pile of crap" responses I see on
here, as like Rajinder's response, are simply not useful nor do they
contribute positively to this group, no our overall image as anything
other than a bunch of elitist snobs. In other words, unless somebody
is constantly flooding the group with useless cruft there's no reason
to shoot them down like that, and even in that case a polite "please
tone it down" is more useful than a simian comparison of intelligence.
Type, think, submit... or heck, even transpose step 1 and 2.
p.s. If I ever end up degrading somebody's preferences else on here in
this manner, please feel free to remind me of my own high and mighty
opinions in this matter :-)
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