From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 1 00:24:10 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:24:10 -0500 Subject: riddle me this In-Reply-To: <200812310840.13862.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <495ADF75.3040909@tmis.ca> <200812310840.13862.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880812311624v4ec47297i114c22a7c8349892@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, I know a few people who use the tor network to use Pandora. I'd try using TOR, with privoxy. KDE has a nice plugin called Tork which works really well. On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 8:40 AM, Andrej Marjan wrote: > On December 30, 2008 10:59:44 pm Robert Brockway wrote: > >> I can't say whether a proxy would be sufficient to access PBS or whether a >> VPN would be needed. > > A SOCKS proxy should also work -- Flash supports it. I've used one to access > Youtube from networks that banned it. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 2 21:07:21 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:07:21 -0500 Subject: DLink DIR-625 Router Message-ID: <20090102160721.7ac0dd29.hgibson@eol.ca> I am trying to set up a DLink DIR-625 router to do a wireless connection to my Linux laptop. I have upgraded my laptop to Fedora Core_9 and, definitely, the wireless connection is working. When I look, I can see all sorts of wireless connections around my house. I have been trying everything I can think of within the DIR-625's web menu. On one or two occasions, I have seen the DLink's wireless connection displayed briefly a couple of times. I am not sure what I did to cause this. The router has the option of making the wireless invisible, but I have turned this off. I suspect I have a faulty piece of hardware. When I call DLink support, they tell me they do not support my OS. I tried arguing that I can access the configuration window, but this does not help. Is anybody running one of these things? Are you familiar when I should see the wireless connection? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 2 21:19:58 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:19:58 -0500 Subject: DLink DIR-625 Router In-Reply-To: <20090102160721.7ac0dd29.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20090102160721.7ac0dd29.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880901021319v76271d58q6beb71102fa639ce@mail.gmail.com> I'd try the following: - Try on another OS (Mac/WIndows) - If it works on another OS (Mac/Windows) you know its a configuration issue on linux - if it doesnt work on the windows os or mac you can tell them you've tried on a supported platform :) - Check the authentication your using - check to see if you are you using MAC ADDRESS filtering? - If its visible on the windows/mac systems, try the command line utility: > iwlist scan This will tell you if its available. I'd try installing wicd, and using that to connect and choosing the right driver (madfi,wext,...etc) If your using the wrong driver the wireless will not work correctly. wicd makes using wireless-tools fairly simple, and provides a nice grahical gui. On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Howard Gibson wrote: > I am trying to set up a DLink DIR-625 router to do a wireless connection to my Linux laptop. I have upgraded my laptop to Fedora Core_9 and, definitely, the wireless connection is working. When I look, I can see all sorts of wireless connections around my house. > > I have been trying everything I can think of within the DIR-625's web menu. On one or two occasions, I have seen the DLink's wireless connection displayed briefly a couple of times. I am not sure what I did to cause this. The router has the option of making the wireless invisible, but I have turned this off. > > I suspect I have a faulty piece of hardware. When I call DLink support, they tell me they do not support my OS. I tried arguing that I can access the configuration window, but this does not help. > > Is anybody running one of these things? Are you familiar when I should see the wireless connection? > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Germiquet -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 2 21:25:04 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 16:25:04 -0500 Subject: WAY OT; started motor capacitor sizing formula ? Message-ID: <495E8630.6010207@linuxcaffe.ca> Alright, I know it's not linuxy, but I have a pressing technical problem that the outside world can't seem to answer; What size starter capacitor do I need for a 1hp/230v oil-filled motor ? The cap on my Blakeslee UC21 dish sanitizer has blown (again) and I'm trying to replace it with one that will last more than 6 months. The original cap is long gone, the dishwasher manufacturer has no clue, and the motor manufacturer says "bring it in". Sadly, motor removal and replacement in this scenario is a Big Deal.. Surely there exists some general formula that will get me into the proper microfarad range, but none of the electrical geeks at any of these suppliers has any idea. please to help ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 2 21:25:14 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:25:14 -0500 Subject: DLink DIR-625 Router In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880901021319v76271d58q6beb71102fa639ce-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090102160721.7ac0dd29.hgibson@eol.ca> <32f6a8880901021319v76271d58q6beb71102fa639ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880901021325m5ad2185fwa31ea46e17267fd@mail.gmail.com> You can also try this: Click On Manual Configuration from the log in page Click on wireless settings make sure you have a unique ssid make sure the enable wireless option is enable try making enable auto scan is enabled If you don't have a DHCP server, i'd try enabling that , and making its propery configured. I'm not too sure how wireless works without a DHCP server...also make sure the dhcp server doesnt automatically set it to an ip address that is already taken. (Use the dhcp range). TTYL. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 2 21:46:28 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:46:28 -0500 Subject: DLink DIR-625 Router In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880901021325m5ad2185fwa31ea46e17267fd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090102160721.7ac0dd29.hgibson@eol.ca> <32f6a8880901021319v76271d58q6beb71102fa639ce@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880901021325m5ad2185fwa31ea46e17267fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880901021346h48af97c1s93d3c3d187f6fa17@mail.gmail.com> Some Additional info, some other gotcha's. There are different types of WPA authentication. The one that your router uses is (I think anyhow). Make sure your using the right field, it looks like that router uses Pre-Shared Key so make sure you have that one selected on your linux box. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 2 21:52:36 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:52:36 -0500 Subject: Old tech toys available Message-ID: <1f13df280901021352m31913422p8af6a733a1aa7b6a@mail.gmail.com> I have several items I'd like to get rid of. Most are essentially computing antiques so this may create more amusement than interest but perhaps someone can get some mileage out of them. All are free to anyone who wants them, contact me off list if you want to arrange a pick up. Compaq iPAQ This comes with a USB cradle, a sleeve that holds a single CF card, a 16Mb CF card, a charger, and a worn but rather nice belt holster. This is the original h3600 model from 2001, and should run Linux well. But: the battery is totally dead so you have to do any experimenting with it plugged in. I replaced a Palm battery recently, cost me about $20 in total and an hour of work - I would hope the Compaq battery would be as easy. It runs well and the screen looks good. I was unable to flash it to Linux from the CF sleeve: this should be possible, but didn't work for me. Flashing can also be done with sync software under Linux or Windows, but I have a Palm PDA I'm very happy with so I have very little motivation to work on it further - I'm not as driven by sheer perversity as I used to be. One photo at http://www.gilesorr.com/forOthers/ Palm Folding Keyboard For an older model of Palm, I'm not sure which one. Palm-branded. In good physical condition except that one of the two parts of the latch that holds it closed is bent, not a big deal. I can't tell you if this works: I've never used it. Comes in a nice neoprene case. I love these folding keyboards: they close up to the size of a PDA and work fairly well, quite a mechanical marvel (although I wouldn't put any money at all on their long-term durability). Three photos at http://www.gilesorr.com/forOthers/ SpaceOrb 360 This was my fascination with technology (and the Descent video game) getting the better of me. There's a description of this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360 : it's a two-hand game controller with a sphere at the top end that can twist and wiggle in every possible direction. Great idea, but drivers needed to be developed for every game individually and it never made much of a dent in the market. Attaches to the serial port. There are Linux drivers (which I never tried). Castlewood Orb Drive Another good idea that didn't fly. This is a removable cartridge drive that came out after the Zip Drive and took a 2Gb cartridge. What sank them was a complete inability to distribute the cartridges. Many people (myself included) managed to buy a drive, but ended up with only the one cartridge that came in the box with the drive. http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3644 I have an internal IDE drive (not the external shown). I think I have this somewhere ... I found the cartridge recently, I'll dig for the drive if anyone's interested. All other items I can lay hands on immediately. After I listen to a week of resounding silence, I'll toss these in the trash. But if you are interested, do let me know. (I'm posting here rather than freecycle or equivalent because the traffic on that list scares me and I prefer to support (and entertain) Linux users.) -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 2 22:10:20 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:10:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: anyone used a display port driver for a dell laptop with one of those ports? Message-ID: given that *someone* on this list has probably seen these, has anyone seen one of the newer dell (latitude?) laptops with the funky new display port video output, and figured out where to get a driver to make use of such a thing? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_port rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 3 00:04:20 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:04:20 -0500 Subject: DLink DIR-625 Router In-Reply-To: <20090102160721.7ac0dd29.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20090102160721.7ac0dd29.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <495EAB84.5080909@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > I am trying to set up a DLink DIR-625 router to do a wireless connection to my Linux laptop. I have upgraded my laptop to Fedora Core_9 and, definitely, the wireless connection is working. When I look, I can see all sorts of wireless connections around my house. > > I have been trying everything I can think of within the DIR-625's web menu. On one or two occasions, I have seen the DLink's wireless connection displayed briefly a couple of times. I am not sure what I did to cause this. The router has the option of making the wireless invisible, but I have turned this off. > > I suspect I have a faulty piece of hardware. When I call DLink support, they tell me they do not support my OS. I tried arguing that I can access the configuration window, but this does not help. > > Is anybody running one of these things? Are you familiar when I should see the wireless connection? > > They don't have to support the OS, only the hardware. Try a simply non encrypted connection first and then add WPA2. Do you have another computer you can test with, even if Windows? However, given that you don't see a signal, I'd suspect the router. Have you tried resetting to factory default? They have an office/warehouse in Mississauga, near Dundas & Hwy 403. I don't know if they have any support people there, but perhaps they could verify it is working. What about where you bought it? Is it new? If so, they may be able to help. You might also want to try bringing it to a TLUG meeting or the Linux Cafe, where someone can help you. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 3 00:06:07 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:06:07 -0500 Subject: WAY OT; started motor capacitor sizing formula ? In-Reply-To: <495E8630.6010207-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <495E8630.6010207@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <495EABEF.6040606@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > Alright, I know it's not linuxy, but I have a pressing technical > problem that the outside world can't seem to answer; What size starter > capacitor do I need for a 1hp/230v oil-filled motor ? > > The cap on my Blakeslee UC21 dish sanitizer has blown (again) and I'm > trying to replace it with one that will last more than 6 months. The > original cap is long gone, the dishwasher manufacturer has no clue, > and the motor manufacturer says "bring it in". Sadly, motor removal > and replacement in this scenario is a Big Deal.. > > Surely there exists some general formula that will get me into the > proper microfarad range, but none of the electrical geeks at any of > these suppliers has any idea. > > please to help ? There's really no way to guess. However, the big question is why is it failing? Is it under rated for the application? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 3 00:07:33 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:07:33 -0500 Subject: DLink DIR-625 Router In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880901021325m5ad2185fwa31ea46e17267fd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090102160721.7ac0dd29.hgibson@eol.ca> <32f6a8880901021319v76271d58q6beb71102fa639ce@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880901021325m5ad2185fwa31ea46e17267fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <495EAC45.5040007@rogers.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > You can also try this: > > Click On Manual Configuration from the log in page > Click on wireless settings > make sure you have a unique ssid > make sure the enable wireless option is enable > try making enable auto scan is enabled > > If you don't have a DHCP server, i'd try enabling that , and making > its propery configured. > I'm not too sure how wireless works without a DHCP server...also make > sure the dhcp server doesnt automatically set it to an ip address that > is already taken. > (Use the dhcp range). > > As I mentioned in another note, just setting to factory default should produce a usable signal, with no encryption and also with DHCP enabled. However, as I understand it, the issue is seeing the signal, not getting an IP address. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 3 00:10:13 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:10:13 -0500 Subject: DLink DIR-625 Router In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880901021346h48af97c1s93d3c3d187f6fa17-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090102160721.7ac0dd29.hgibson@eol.ca> <32f6a8880901021319v76271d58q6beb71102fa639ce@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880901021325m5ad2185fwa31ea46e17267fd@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880901021346h48af97c1s93d3c3d187f6fa17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <495EACE5.8020604@rogers.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Some Additional info, some other gotcha's. > > There are different types of WPA authentication. The one that your > router uses is (I think anyhow). > > Make sure your using the right field, it looks like that router uses > Pre-Shared Key so make sure you have that one selected on your linux > box. > As I mentioned in another note, the first thing is to get a basic, unencrypted signal going. Once he has that, he can worry about encryption. Also modern equipment should support WPA2 and be able to accept both WPA2 & WPA encryption. Linux supports both. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 3 01:12:06 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:12:06 -0500 Subject: Old tech toys available In-Reply-To: <1f13df280901021352m31913422p8af6a733a1aa7b6a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280901021352m31913422p8af6a733a1aa7b6a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <495EBB66.9000006@alteeve.com> Giles Orr wrote: > This comes with a USB cradle, a sleeve that holds a single CF card, a > 16Mb CF card, a charger, and a worn but rather nice belt holster. > This is the original h3600 model from 2001, and should run Linux well. > But: the battery is totally dead so you have to do any experimenting > with it plugged in. I replaced a Palm battery recently, cost me about > $20 in total and an hour of work - I would hope the Compaq battery > would be as easy. It runs well and the screen looks good. I was > unable to flash it to Linux from the CF sleeve: this should be > possible, but didn't work for me. Flashing can also be done with sync > software under Linux or Windows, but I have a Palm PDA I'm very happy > with so I have very little motivation to work on it further - I'm not > as driven by sheer perversity as I used to be. One photo at > http://www.gilesorr.com/forOthers/ > > Palm Folding Keyboard > > This was my fascination with technology (and the Descent video game) > getting the better of me. There's a description of this at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360 : it's a two-hand game > controller with a sphere at the top end that can twist and wiggle in > every possible direction. Great idea, but drivers needed to be > developed for every game individually and it never made much of a dent > in the market. Attaches to the serial port. There are Linux drivers > (which I never tried). > > Castlewood Orb Drive > > Another good idea that didn't fly. This is a removable cartridge > drive that came out after the Zip Drive and took a 2Gb cartridge. > What sank them was a complete inability to distribute the cartridges. > Many people (myself included) managed to buy a drive, but ended up > with only the one cartridge that came in the box with the drive. > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3644 I have an internal IDE drive > (not the external shown). I think I have this somewhere ... I found > the cartridge recently, I'll dig for the drive if anyone's interested. > All other items I can lay hands on immediately. I'm always keen on storage devices for testing when I get time on my backup program. If anyone else wants it, let it go to them, but otherwise I'll put my hand in for the Orb. I do still have an old Palm Vx, so if no one is interested in the keyboard, I'll snag that, too. Cheers! Madi Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 3 02:37:08 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 21:37:08 -0500 Subject: DLink DIR-625 Router In-Reply-To: <495EAC45.5040007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20090102160721.7ac0dd29.hgibson@eol.ca> <32f6a8880901021319v76271d58q6beb71102fa639ce@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880901021325m5ad2185fwa31ea46e17267fd@mail.gmail.com> <495EAC45.5040007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090102213708.be8ea095.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:07:33 -0500 James Knott wrote: > As I mentioned in another note, just setting to factory default should > produce a usable signal, with no encryption and also with DHCP enabled. > However, as I understand it, the issue is seeing the signal, not getting > an IP address. James, That's right. I can scan routers. I have been logged into an encrypted router. I simply cannot see the DLink one. I tried with encryption off. I tried to hide the wireless signal. Nothing. I can see the router's wireless light come on, but no blinking to indicate a connection. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 3 02:44:23 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:44:23 -0500 Subject: DLink DIR-625 Router In-Reply-To: <20090102213708.be8ea095.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20090102160721.7ac0dd29.hgibson@eol.ca> <32f6a8880901021319v76271d58q6beb71102fa639ce@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880901021325m5ad2185fwa31ea46e17267fd@mail.gmail.com> <495EAC45.5040007@rogers.com> <20090102213708.be8ea095.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <495ED107.4090806@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:07:33 -0500 > James Knott wrote: > >> As I mentioned in another note, just setting to factory default should >> produce a usable signal, with no encryption and also with DHCP enabled. >> However, as I understand it, the issue is seeing the signal, not getting >> an IP address. >> > > James, > > That's right. I can scan routers. I have been logged into an encrypted router. I simply cannot see the DLink one. I tried with encryption off. I tried to hide the wireless signal. Nothing. > > I can see the router's wireless light come on, but no blinking to indicate a connection. > > It definitely sounds like a problem with the router. Did you try resetting it to factory defaults? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 3 05:55:04 2009 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 00:55:04 -0500 Subject: Old tech toys available In-Reply-To: <495EBB66.9000006-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280901021352m31913422p8af6a733a1aa7b6a@mail.gmail.com> <495EBB66.9000006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <495EFDB8.3030502@ss.org> Madison Kelly wrote: > Giles Orr wrote: >> This comes with a USB cradle, a sleeve that holds a single CF card, a >> 16Mb CF card, a charger, and a worn but rather nice belt holster. >> This is the original h3600 model from 2001, and should run Linux well. >> But: the battery is totally dead so you have to do any experimenting >> with it plugged in. I replaced a Palm battery recently, cost me about >> $20 in total and an hour of work - I would hope the Compaq battery >> would be as easy. It runs well and the screen looks good. I was >> unable to flash it to Linux from the CF sleeve: this should be >> possible, but didn't work for me. Flashing can also be done with sync >> software under Linux or Windows, but I have a Palm PDA I'm very happy >> with so I have very little motivation to work on it further - I'm not >> as driven by sheer perversity as I used to be. One photo at >> http://www.gilesorr.com/forOthers/ >> >> Palm Folding Keyboard >> >> This was my fascination with technology (and the Descent video game) >> getting the better of me. There's a description of this at >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360 : it's a two-hand game >> controller with a sphere at the top end that can twist and wiggle in >> every possible direction. Great idea, but drivers needed to be >> developed for every game individually and it never made much of a dent >> in the market. Attaches to the serial port. There are Linux drivers >> (which I never tried). >> >> Castlewood Orb Drive >> >> Another good idea that didn't fly. This is a removable cartridge >> drive that came out after the Zip Drive and took a 2Gb cartridge. >> What sank them was a complete inability to distribute the cartridges. >> Many people (myself included) managed to buy a drive, but ended up >> with only the one cartridge that came in the box with the drive. >> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3644 I have an internal IDE drive >> (not the external shown). I think I have this somewhere ... I found >> the cartridge recently, I'll dig for the drive if anyone's interested. >> All other items I can lay hands on immediately. > > I'm always keen on storage devices for testing when I get time on my > backup program. If anyone else wants it, let it go to them, but > otherwise I'll put my hand in for the Orb. > > I do still have an old Palm Vx, so if no one is interested in the > keyboard, I'll snag that, too. I'd actually Like the Palm Keyboard if that's alright, the Vx is my mainstay PDA for the next foreseeable while and I think the keyboard could be handy. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 3 06:07:44 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 01:07:44 -0500 Subject: Old tech toys available In-Reply-To: <495EFDB8.3030502-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280901021352m31913422p8af6a733a1aa7b6a@mail.gmail.com> <495EBB66.9000006@alteeve.com> <495EFDB8.3030502@ss.org> Message-ID: <495F00B0.4080005@alteeve.com> Scott Sullivan wrote: > > > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Giles Orr wrote: >>> This comes with a USB cradle, a sleeve that holds a single CF card, a >>> 16Mb CF card, a charger, and a worn but rather nice belt holster. >>> This is the original h3600 model from 2001, and should run Linux well. >>> But: the battery is totally dead so you have to do any experimenting >>> with it plugged in. I replaced a Palm battery recently, cost me about >>> $20 in total and an hour of work - I would hope the Compaq battery >>> would be as easy. It runs well and the screen looks good. I was >>> unable to flash it to Linux from the CF sleeve: this should be >>> possible, but didn't work for me. Flashing can also be done with sync >>> software under Linux or Windows, but I have a Palm PDA I'm very happy >>> with so I have very little motivation to work on it further - I'm not >>> as driven by sheer perversity as I used to be. One photo at >>> http://www.gilesorr.com/forOthers/ >>> >>> Palm Folding Keyboard >>> >>> This was my fascination with technology (and the Descent video game) >>> getting the better of me. There's a description of this at >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360 : it's a two-hand game >>> controller with a sphere at the top end that can twist and wiggle in >>> every possible direction. Great idea, but drivers needed to be >>> developed for every game individually and it never made much of a dent >>> in the market. Attaches to the serial port. There are Linux drivers >>> (which I never tried). >>> >>> Castlewood Orb Drive >>> >>> Another good idea that didn't fly. This is a removable cartridge >>> drive that came out after the Zip Drive and took a 2Gb cartridge. >>> What sank them was a complete inability to distribute the cartridges. >>> Many people (myself included) managed to buy a drive, but ended up >>> with only the one cartridge that came in the box with the drive. >>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3644 I have an internal IDE drive >>> (not the external shown). I think I have this somewhere ... I found >>> the cartridge recently, I'll dig for the drive if anyone's interested. >>> All other items I can lay hands on immediately. >> >> I'm always keen on storage devices for testing when I get time on my >> backup program. If anyone else wants it, let it go to them, but >> otherwise I'll put my hand in for the Orb. >> >> I do still have an old Palm Vx, so if no one is interested in the >> keyboard, I'll snag that, too. > > I'd actually Like the Palm Keyboard if that's alright, the Vx is my > mainstay PDA for the next foreseeable while and I think the keyboard > could be handy. By all means, do. I don't use my palm much anymore. I just didn't want to see it in the trash. :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 3 16:05:12 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:05:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: WAY OT; started motor capacitor sizing formula ? References: <495E8630.6010207@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: > Alright, I know it's not linuxy, but I have a pressing technical problem > that the outside world can't seem to answer; What size starter capacitor > do I need for a 1hp/230v oil-filled motor ? > > The cap on my Blakeslee UC21 dish sanitizer has blown (again) and I'm Obtain the motor nameplate ratings. There MUST be a plate on the motor that specifies various things such as amps volts and manufacturer, and maybe cos phi and even cap size ... a dentist's tiny mirror on a stick may help. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 3 20:33:30 2009 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 15:33:30 -0500 Subject: Old tech toys available In-Reply-To: <495EFDB8.3030502-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280901021352m31913422p8af6a733a1aa7b6a@mail.gmail.com> <495EBB66.9000006@alteeve.com> <495EFDB8.3030502@ss.org> Message-ID: <495FCB9A.5080607@chrisaitken.net> Is the iPAQ still available? Sorry, if I'd been following the thread more closely I'd know... Chris Scott Sullivan wrote: > > > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Giles Orr wrote: >>> This comes with a USB cradle, a sleeve that holds a single CF card, a >>> 16Mb CF card, a charger, and a worn but rather nice belt holster. >>> This is the original h3600 model from 2001, and should run Linux well. >>> But: the battery is totally dead so you have to do any experimenting >>> with it plugged in. I replaced a Palm battery recently, cost me about >>> $20 in total and an hour of work - I would hope the Compaq battery >>> would be as easy. It runs well and the screen looks good. I was >>> unable to flash it to Linux from the CF sleeve: this should be >>> possible, but didn't work for me. Flashing can also be done with sync >>> software under Linux or Windows, but I have a Palm PDA I'm very happy >>> with so I have very little motivation to work on it further - I'm not >>> as driven by sheer perversity as I used to be. One photo at >>> http://www.gilesorr.com/forOthers/ >>> >>> Palm Folding Keyboard >>> >>> This was my fascination with technology (and the Descent video game) >>> getting the better of me. There's a description of this at >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360 : it's a two-hand game >>> controller with a sphere at the top end that can twist and wiggle in >>> every possible direction. Great idea, but drivers needed to be >>> developed for every game individually and it never made much of a dent >>> in the market. Attaches to the serial port. There are Linux drivers >>> (which I never tried). >>> >>> Castlewood Orb Drive >>> >>> Another good idea that didn't fly. This is a removable cartridge >>> drive that came out after the Zip Drive and took a 2Gb cartridge. >>> What sank them was a complete inability to distribute the cartridges. >>> Many people (myself included) managed to buy a drive, but ended up >>> with only the one cartridge that came in the box with the drive. >>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3644 I have an internal IDE drive >>> (not the external shown). I think I have this somewhere ... I found >>> the cartridge recently, I'll dig for the drive if anyone's interested. >>> All other items I can lay hands on immediately. >> >> I'm always keen on storage devices for testing when I get time on my >> backup program. If anyone else wants it, let it go to them, but >> otherwise I'll put my hand in for the Orb. >> >> I do still have an old Palm Vx, so if no one is interested in the >> keyboard, I'll snag that, too. > > I'd actually Like the Palm Keyboard if that's alright, the Vx is my > mainstay PDA for the next foreseeable while and I think the keyboard > could be handy. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 4 01:12:38 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:12:38 -0500 Subject: DLink DIR-625 Router In-Reply-To: <495ED107.4090806-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20090102160721.7ac0dd29.hgibson@eol.ca> <32f6a8880901021319v76271d58q6beb71102fa639ce@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880901021325m5ad2185fwa31ea46e17267fd@mail.gmail.com> <495EAC45.5040007@rogers.com> <20090102213708.be8ea095.hgibson@eol.ca> <495ED107.4090806@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090103201238.9c807ff2.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:44:23 -0500 James Knott wrote: > > James, > > > > That's right. I can scan routers. I have been logged into an encrypted router. I simply cannot see the DLink one. I tried with encryption off. I tried to hide the wireless signal. Nothing. > > > > I can see the router's wireless light come on, but no blinking to indicate a connection. > > > > > It definitely sounds like a problem with the router. Did you try > resetting it to factory defaults? James, Yes. I just tried that. still no wireless. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 4 01:22:17 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:22:17 -0500 Subject: DLink DIR-625 Router In-Reply-To: <20090103201238.9c807ff2.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20090102160721.7ac0dd29.hgibson@eol.ca> <32f6a8880901021319v76271d58q6beb71102fa639ce@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880901021325m5ad2185fwa31ea46e17267fd@mail.gmail.com> <495EAC45.5040007@rogers.com> <20090102213708.be8ea095.hgibson@eol.ca> <495ED107.4090806@rogers.com> <20090103201238.9c807ff2.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: On 1/3/09, Howard Gibson wrote: > On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:44:23 -0500 > James Knott wrote: > >> > James, >> > >> > That's right. I can scan routers. I have been logged into an >> > encrypted router. I simply cannot see the DLink one. I tried with >> > encryption off. I tried to hide the wireless signal. Nothing. >> > >> > I can see the router's wireless light come on, but no blinking to >> > indicate a connection. >> > >> > >> It definitely sounds like a problem with the router. Did you try >> resetting it to factory defaults? > > James, > > Yes. I just tried that. still no wireless. So, next idea would be to log in and look at configuration settings on the router. I see on the D-Link website that the DIR-625 supports 802.11n, does your adaptor? Does the driver your using on your Linux box know about 802.11n? Has wireless been turned off on the router? Has the router been told to ignore any non-802.11n connection? If it is an 802.11n type issue, can you set everything to use 802.11g? Few ideas. Colin McGregor > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 4 07:33:54 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 02:33:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: oddball TLUG messages found in my spam trap In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570812100757i5dca930o4447667fb09cffdc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: My spam trap checks for odd junk in subject lines. I happened to look at the failing messages and notice two TLUG messages. | Message-ID: <4953EC5E.12331.546CB77-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w at public.gmane.org> | Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Re:Re:Re:Teacher tells students Linux is ??illegal?? and confiscates their copies | X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) In case you cannot see it, here is part of the subject with illegal characters expressed as octal escapes: \303\242\302\302illegal\303\242\302\302 | Message-ID: | Subject: [GW-C] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Re:_[TLUG]:_Re:_:_Teacher_tells_students_Lin?= =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?ux_is_=93illegal=94_and_confiscates_their_copies?= In my opinion, these are crap and the senders should stop doing this. But maybe I'm wrong -- there might be an excuse. I'm guessing that the second message's subject crap was created by gmail trying to deal with the first message's crap. Yuck. From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 4 15:22:30 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:22:30 -0500 Subject: Old tech toys available In-Reply-To: <495FCB9A.5080607-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280901021352m31913422p8af6a733a1aa7b6a@mail.gmail.com> <495EBB66.9000006@alteeve.com> <495EFDB8.3030502@ss.org> <495FCB9A.5080607@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <1f13df280901040722g10c702cbx4ae528b851608a5e@mail.gmail.com> Hi Chris, everyone. Sorry, you just missed the iPAQ. And at this point everything is taken(!). Great to think that all of these will have a bit more life and usefulness! Now all I have to do is arrange to meet everyone ... I'll contact you off list. 2009/1/3 Mr Chris Aitken : > Is the iPAQ still available? Sorry, if I'd been following the thread more > closely I'd know... > > Chris > > Scott Sullivan wrote: >> >> >> Madison Kelly wrote: >>> >>> Giles Orr wrote: >>>> >>>> This comes with a USB cradle, a sleeve that holds a single CF card, a >>>> 16Mb CF card, a charger, and a worn but rather nice belt holster. >>>> This is the original h3600 model from 2001, and should run Linux well. >>>> But: the battery is totally dead so you have to do any experimenting >>>> with it plugged in. I replaced a Palm battery recently, cost me about >>>> $20 in total and an hour of work - I would hope the Compaq battery >>>> would be as easy. It runs well and the screen looks good. I was >>>> unable to flash it to Linux from the CF sleeve: this should be >>>> possible, but didn't work for me. Flashing can also be done with sync >>>> software under Linux or Windows, but I have a Palm PDA I'm very happy >>>> with so I have very little motivation to work on it further - I'm not >>>> as driven by sheer perversity as I used to be. One photo at >>>> http://www.gilesorr.com/forOthers/ >>>> >>>> Palm Folding Keyboard >>>> >>>> This was my fascination with technology (and the Descent video game) >>>> getting the better of me. There's a description of this at >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360 : it's a two-hand game >>>> controller with a sphere at the top end that can twist and wiggle in >>>> every possible direction. Great idea, but drivers needed to be >>>> developed for every game individually and it never made much of a dent >>>> in the market. Attaches to the serial port. There are Linux drivers >>>> (which I never tried). >>>> >>>> Castlewood Orb Drive >>>> >>>> Another good idea that didn't fly. This is a removable cartridge >>>> drive that came out after the Zip Drive and took a 2Gb cartridge. >>>> What sank them was a complete inability to distribute the cartridges. >>>> Many people (myself included) managed to buy a drive, but ended up >>>> with only the one cartridge that came in the box with the drive. >>>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3644 I have an internal IDE drive >>>> (not the external shown). I think I have this somewhere ... I found >>>> the cartridge recently, I'll dig for the drive if anyone's interested. >>>> All other items I can lay hands on immediately. >>> >>> I'm always keen on storage devices for testing when I get time on my >>> backup program. If anyone else wants it, let it go to them, but otherwise >>> I'll put my hand in for the Orb. >>> >>> I do still have an old Palm Vx, so if no one is interested in the >>> keyboard, I'll snag that, too. >> >> I'd actually Like the Palm Keyboard if that's alright, the Vx is my >> mainstay PDA for the next foreseeable while and I think the keyboard could >> be handy. >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 4 15:51:46 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 10:51:46 -0500 Subject: Decent webcam @ Futureshop/BestBuy Message-ID: <4960DB12.6040705@telly.org> Hello everyone, I'd been having some grief with my old $4 microphone since upgrading to Kubuntu 8.10; I just couldn't seem to get the ALSA mixer to get it useful. And web forums seemed to present more similar problems that remained unresolved. So rather than waste another week on what might still be a futile effort, I started investigating USB-based microphones, and as it turns out most of them are built into webcams. Since I didn't have a webcam for this system I started looking around, at the usual suspects (Canada Computers, Tiger, NewEgg, etc.) Having been scared off many Logitecs because of firmware issues (some revs work with the driver, some don't, but the packaging doesn't say what' s installed), I saw that an off-brand model seemed to be reasonably supported. Some drivers work, but are not commonly shipped with distributions and need to be built from source. Others contain proprietary bits. I found one that seemed to have the combination of price, specs, and support using a standards-based driver included in many current distros. It was $31 at Future Shop -- a place I almost *never* consider for computer parts -- from an off-brand called Dynex: http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10098615&catid=10498 I was surprised to see the Dynex listed amongst the webcams well-supported by the standards-based UVC driver: http://linux-uvc.berlios.de/ I don't think stock availability is an issue. At the Yonge-Dundas store, there was a floor-standing display full of them. For $32 it seemed like a reasonable gamble; at that price it's cheaper than most current models. And I was delighted to get home and find this unit to be amongst the most hassle-free peripherals I've ever plugged in to a Linux system. The driver loaded as soon as it was plugged in and it was recognized right away; I had immediate access from both ALSA and the video test worked as soon as I told the Skype to use it. The only unusual thing is that `lsusb` reports the device as "Best Buy" :-) -- sure enough it's also found at that store: http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10098615&catid=20403 So it' s probably just a store-brand -- BestBuy's equivalent of "Presidents Choice". :-) Anyway... I rarely recommend hardware but this one's on my list. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 4 17:10:01 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:10:01 -0500 Subject: Old tech toys available In-Reply-To: <1f13df280901040722g10c702cbx4ae528b851608a5e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280901021352m31913422p8af6a733a1aa7b6a@mail.gmail.com> <495EBB66.9000006@alteeve.com> <495EFDB8.3030502@ss.org> <495FCB9A.5080607@chrisaitken.net> <1f13df280901040722g10c702cbx4ae528b851608a5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 1/4/09, Giles Orr wrote: > Hi Chris, everyone. > > Sorry, you just missed the iPAQ. And at this point everything is > taken(!). Great to think that all of these will have a bit more life > and usefulness! > > Now all I have to do is arrange to meet everyone ... I'll contact you off > list. My usual procedure when I have some tech. toys that I want to pass on to others is to tell folks that they have one or two options: - They can come to my place at a mutually acceptable time, - If the item(s) are small enough to be EASILY carried, then folks can meet me at one of the meetings I normally attend (GTALug, Unix Unanimous and/or NewTLUG). Colin McGregor > 2009/1/3 Mr Chris Aitken : >> Is the iPAQ still available? Sorry, if I'd been following the thread more >> closely I'd know... >> >> Chris >> >> Scott Sullivan wrote: >>> >>> >>> Madison Kelly wrote: >>>> >>>> Giles Orr wrote: >>>>> >>>>> This comes with a USB cradle, a sleeve that holds a single CF card, a >>>>> 16Mb CF card, a charger, and a worn but rather nice belt holster. >>>>> This is the original h3600 model from 2001, and should run Linux well. >>>>> But: the battery is totally dead so you have to do any experimenting >>>>> with it plugged in. I replaced a Palm battery recently, cost me about >>>>> $20 in total and an hour of work - I would hope the Compaq battery >>>>> would be as easy. It runs well and the screen looks good. I was >>>>> unable to flash it to Linux from the CF sleeve: this should be >>>>> possible, but didn't work for me. Flashing can also be done with sync >>>>> software under Linux or Windows, but I have a Palm PDA I'm very happy >>>>> with so I have very little motivation to work on it further - I'm not >>>>> as driven by sheer perversity as I used to be. One photo at >>>>> http://www.gilesorr.com/forOthers/ >>>>> >>>>> Palm Folding Keyboard >>>>> >>>>> This was my fascination with technology (and the Descent video game) >>>>> getting the better of me. There's a description of this at >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceOrb_360 : it's a two-hand game >>>>> controller with a sphere at the top end that can twist and wiggle in >>>>> every possible direction. Great idea, but drivers needed to be >>>>> developed for every game individually and it never made much of a dent >>>>> in the market. Attaches to the serial port. There are Linux drivers >>>>> (which I never tried). >>>>> >>>>> Castlewood Orb Drive >>>>> >>>>> Another good idea that didn't fly. This is a removable cartridge >>>>> drive that came out after the Zip Drive and took a 2Gb cartridge. >>>>> What sank them was a complete inability to distribute the cartridges. >>>>> Many people (myself included) managed to buy a drive, but ended up >>>>> with only the one cartridge that came in the box with the drive. >>>>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3644 I have an internal IDE drive >>>>> (not the external shown). I think I have this somewhere ... I found >>>>> the cartridge recently, I'll dig for the drive if anyone's interested. >>>>> All other items I can lay hands on immediately. >>>> >>>> I'm always keen on storage devices for testing when I get time on my >>>> backup program. If anyone else wants it, let it go to them, but >>>> otherwise >>>> I'll put my hand in for the Orb. >>>> >>>> I do still have an old Palm Vx, so if no one is interested in the >>>> keyboard, I'll snag that, too. >>> >>> I'd actually Like the Palm Keyboard if that's alright, the Vx is my >>> mainstay PDA for the next foreseeable while and I think the keyboard >>> could >>> be handy. >>> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 4 20:48:55 2009 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:48:55 -0500 Subject: Connecting to an MS VPN from a laptop running debian etch. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In case anyone is listening and interested... It turns out that all I needed to do to open the tunnel was add "refuse-eap" to the "/etc/ppp/options.pptp" file. However, that did not open a route to the remote network and ARP traffic (or, I assume, IP traffic) was not forwarded. This showed up as not being able to "ping" hosts on the remote network. To solve this issue, I had to create a file, "/etc/ppp/ip-up.d/vpnroute" file containing: #!/bin/sh if [ "${PPP_IPPARAM}" = "to-work" ]; then route add -net netmask 255.255.255.0 dev ppp0 fi Where the network IP address class-significant portion followed by zeros. (And, of course, make the script executable). This creates the needed route and I was able to ping remote hosts by IP address, but I still could not access them by name. To do this, I had to add "usepeerdns" to the "/etc/ppp/options.pptp", to get access to the remote DNS servers. Now I have a fully working VPN (I think). Cheers, Colin On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:42 AM, colin davidson wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I'm trying to connect to my work machine which is running XP and is > accessible via an MS VPN (I don't have any choice in the matter, so > please hold the heckling :). Anyway, I followed the instructions in: > > http://pptpclient.sourceforge.net/howto-debian.phtml > > As far as I can see, I've done everything suggested. My > "/etc/ppp/options.pptp" is: > > lock noauth nobsdcomp nodeflate > > Let's say that connecting via XP/Vista I connect to "vpn" on > "domain.com", my account is "user" and password is "pwd". There are no > problems connecting thus. (This is all just to anonymize my work > account - I trust you'll all understand why I can't share the real > thing). > > On the debian system my "/etc/ppp/chap-secrets" file is > > # Secrets for authentication using CHAP > # client server secret IP addresses > > user PPTP pwd * > > I have a "/etc/ppp/peers/to-work" file which contains: > > pty "pptp vpn.domain.com --nolaunchpppd" > name user > remotename PPTP > require-mppe-128 > file /etc/ppp/options.pptp > ipparam to-work > > When I run "pon to-work debug dump logfd 2 nodetach" the screen output is: > > pppd options in effect: > debug # (from command line) > nodetach # (from command line) > logfd 2 # (from command line) > dump # (from command line) > noauth # (from /etc/ppp/options.pptp) > name user # (from /etc/ppp/peers/to-work) > remotename PPTP # (from /etc/ppp/peers/to-work) > # (from /etc/ppp/options.pptp) > pty pptp vpn.domain.com --nolaunchpppd # (from /etc/ppp/peers/to-work) > crtscts # (from /etc/ppp/options) > # (from /etc/ppp/options) > asyncmap 0 # (from /etc/ppp/options) > lcp-echo-failure 4 # (from /etc/ppp/options) > lcp-echo-interval 30 # (from /etc/ppp/options) > hide-password # (from /etc/ppp/options) > ipparam to-work # (from /etc/ppp/peers/to-work) > proxyarp # (from /etc/ppp/options) > nobsdcomp # (from /etc/ppp/options.pptp) > nodeflate # (from /etc/ppp/options.pptp) > require-mppe-128 # (from /etc/ppp/peers/to-work) > noipx # (from /etc/ppp/options) > using channel 12 > Using interface ppp0 > Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/pts/13 > sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 ] > rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0x0 > [local:2e.35.da.60.ac.e0.4f.57.ac.4c.b9.e3.81.97.dd.3a.00.00.00.00]> < > 17 04 07 ff>] > sent [LCP ConfRej id=0x0 < 17 04 07 ff>] > rcvd [LCP ConfAck id=0x1 ] > rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 > [local:2e.35.da.60.ac.e0.4f.57.ac.4c.b9.e3.81.97.dd.3a.00.00.00.00]>] > sent [LCP ConfAck id=0x1 > [local:2e.35.da.60.ac.e0.4f.57.ac.4c.b9.e3.81.97.dd.3a.00.00.00.00]>] > sent [LCP EchoReq id=0x0 magic=0x8395b784] > rcvd [EAP Request id=0x17 Identity ] > sent [EAP Response id=0x17 Identity ] > rcvd [LCP EchoRep id=0x0 magic=0x1cc54d5e] > rcvd [LCP TermReq id=0x3 1c c5 4d 5e 00 3c cd 74 00 00 03 ae] > LCP terminated by peer (^\M-EM^^@ sent [LCP TermAck id=0x3] > Connection terminated. > Modem hangup > Waiting for 1 child processes... > script pptp vpn.domain.com --nolaunchpppd, pid 9847 > Script pptp vpn.domain.com --nolaunchpppd finished (pid 9847), status = 0x0 > > I also tried "domain.com\\user" everywhere "user" appears above, with > much the same result. > > If I recall it correctly, there was a delay after the EAP Name message > or the LCP message following it. > > I also tried refusing EAP and got a similar hangup, again after > sending the name. > > Any help/suggestions very welcome. > > Thanks, Colin > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 4 21:21:40 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:21:40 -0500 Subject: Savage 2 for Linux Message-ID: Of note for the Linux gamers the multi-player game Savage 2 is available as a free download for the following platforms, Linux 32-bit, Linux 64-bit, Mac OS-X (Intel), and MS-Windows. The "catch" being you need to register on-line to use the game, and while a basic account can be had for free, $$ will get you extra goodies... Details to be seen here: http://savage2.s2games.com/download.php I haven't yet tried the game, but I thought folks here might want to have a look... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 4 21:23:41 2009 From: lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Julian C. Dunn) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:23:41 -0500 Subject: Accessing Toronto Public Library's Website with Linux In-Reply-To: <1f13df280812190827u6b9857ffu7800fa2f70546d29-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280812190827u6b9857ffu7800fa2f70546d29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231104221.3103.9.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> On Fri, 2008-12-19 at 11:27 -0500, Giles Orr wrote: > Recently, Matt Price posted to the Toronto Public Library weblog about > an ongoing problem with TPL's website: it's been very slow with Linux > browsers. We knew about it but didn't know why. Matt found us an > answer, I got in touch with him, and now that answer is posted to our > website. Many thanks to Matt, and to Sacha, who Matt says put him on > the right track. > > http://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/hel_tro_index.jsp#linux Giles et. al: Thanks so much for finding this problem! In my desperation to access the library site, I'd even tried installing Firebug to determine what the problem was. Now it's good to know that it is not an application layer issue. I should note that President's Choice Financial's online banking site (https://www.txn.banking.pcfinancial.ca/) is also afflicted by this problem. I have written them a note through their feedback form. - Julian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 4 21:28:14 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:28:14 -0500 Subject: Accessing Toronto Public Library's Website with Linux In-Reply-To: <1231104221.3103.9.camel-sd4rSCkhOeu0gumUbo5taVDdeaDYgqOw@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280812190827u6b9857ffu7800fa2f70546d29@mail.gmail.com> <1231104221.3103.9.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Message-ID: <496129EE.1030906@rogers.com> Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Fri, 2008-12-19 at 11:27 -0500, Giles Orr wrote: > > >> Recently, Matt Price posted to the Toronto Public Library weblog about >> an ongoing problem with TPL's website: it's been very slow with Linux >> browsers. We knew about it but didn't know why. Matt found us an >> answer, I got in touch with him, and now that answer is posted to our >> website. Many thanks to Matt, and to Sacha, who Matt says put him on >> the right track. >> >> http://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/hel_tro_index.jsp#linux >> > > Giles et. al: > > Thanks so much for finding this problem! In my desperation to access the > library site, I'd even tried installing Firebug to determine what the > problem was. Now it's good to know that it is not an application layer > issue. > > I should note that President's Choice Financial's online banking site > (https://www.txn.banking.pcfinancial.ca/) is also afflicted by this > problem. I have written them a note through their feedback form. > > ???? I use the PC Financial site frequently, using Seamonkey on Linux. No problems that I've noticed. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 4 23:01:08 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:01:08 -0500 Subject: Accessing Toronto Public Library's Website with Linux In-Reply-To: <496129EE.1030906-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280812190827u6b9857ffu7800fa2f70546d29@mail.gmail.com> <1231104221.3103.9.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <496129EE.1030906@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49613FB4.7070809@utoronto.ca> James Knott wrote: > Julian C. Dunn wrote: >> On Fri, 2008-12-19 at 11:27 -0500, Giles Orr wrote: >> >> >>> Recently, Matt Price posted to the Toronto Public Library weblog about >>> an ongoing problem with TPL's website: it's been very slow with Linux >>> browsers. We knew about it but didn't know why. Matt found us an >>> answer, I got in touch with him, and now that answer is posted to our >>> website. Many thanks to Matt, and to Sacha, who Matt says put him on >>> the right track. >>> >>> http://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/hel_tro_index.jsp#linux >>> >> Giles et. al: >> >> Thanks so much for finding this problem! In my desperation to access the >> library site, I'd even tried installing Firebug to determine what the >> problem was. Now it's good to know that it is not an application layer >> issue. >> >> I should note that President's Choice Financial's online banking site >> (https://www.txn.banking.pcfinancial.ca/) is also afflicted by this >> problem. I have written them a note through their feedback form. >> >> > > ???? > > I use the PC Financial site frequently, using Seamonkey on Linux. No > problems that I've noticed. > > I've had the same problem with them and fixed it using sysctl, I guess I had that in place before using the tpl site so I never noticed it.. Hmm, wonder what other sites are "broken" that I've been using and didn't notice the problem. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 01:34:46 2009 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 20:34:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Accessing Toronto Public Library's Website with Linux In-Reply-To: <49613FB4.7070809-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280812190827u6b9857ffu7800fa2f70546d29@mail.gmail.com> <1231104221.3103.9.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> <496129EE.1030906@rogers.com> <49613FB4.7070809@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <29943.173.34.8.54.1231119286.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> >>>> Recently, Matt Price posted to the Toronto Public Library weblog about >>>> an ongoing problem with TPL's website: it's been very slow with Linux >>>> browsers. We knew about it but didn't know why. Matt found us an >>>> answer, I got in touch with him, and now that answer is posted to our >>>> website. Many thanks to Matt, and to Sacha, who Matt says put him on >>>> the right track. More thanks to Matt for posting this fix. Before the fix, access was *painfully* slow: now it's normal. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 14:12:00 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:12:00 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista Message-ID: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> I started with computers on MS-DOS 5.0 on a 486 DX-25 (first PC my family had). Since then I've never had a "legit" version of MS software. A weird thing happened though; About five years ago I started using Linux and F/OSS. By "use" I mean "totally fell in love with". So, over the weekend my gaming PC died. I decided to rebuild it, and because of Linux, I bought a proper copy of MS Vista. As I've come to see it, I would be a complete blooming hypocrite if I thought I could continue copying commercial software while also expecting the GPL and similar to be respected. So Microsoft, thank F/OSS for getting your hands on my ~$160. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 14:30:43 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:30:43 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49621530.4020509-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > I started with computers on MS-DOS 5.0 on a 486 DX-25 (first PC my > family had). Since then I've never had a "legit" version of MS software. > > A weird thing happened though; About five years ago I started using > Linux and F/OSS. By "use" I mean "totally fell in love with". So, over > the weekend my gaming PC died. I decided to rebuild it, and because of > Linux, I bought a proper copy of MS Vista. > > As I've come to see it, I would be a complete blooming hypocrite if I > thought I could continue copying commercial software while also > expecting the GPL and similar to be respected. > > So Microsoft, thank F/OSS for getting your hands on my ~$160. > Why did you buy a computer just for gaming? You could get a PS3 for $400 (and install Linux on it as well!) Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 15:35:51 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:35:51 -0500 Subject: Any ALSA experts here? In-Reply-To: References: <494AF5EC.8060207@telly.org> <20081218223634.d53cd5f2.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20090105153551.GA29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 11:57:23PM +0000, Peter wrote: > Usually you need to check for the special driver needed for the sound input > device on the camera. It may or may not be supported. It depends on the chipset. > Get the USB ID of the device(s) and check for compatibility on the net, or post > the numbers here and we will try to look ... you want both the camera and the > mike data (usually the mike is an unrecognized usb endpoint but it can be a > separate device). Well that camera happens to be UVC compliant (as well as UAC compliant for the mic). I am not sure it supports 8000hz operation though. Try 44100 or 48000. I am currently playing with a webcam myself with the same interface, and having some issues that I just today discovered are apparently due to a bug in 2.6.26, so on to something newer I go. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 15:39:00 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:39:00 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49621993.6000401-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> Stephen wrote: > Why did you buy a computer just for gaming? > > You could get a PS3 for $400 (and install Linux on it as well!) > > Stephen The only two games I play are World of Warcraft and EvE Online (both PC-only MMO's). Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 15:39:16 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:39:16 -0500 Subject: Linux friendly cameras In-Reply-To: <1f13df280812190920n1ce17262oc971c450193ea9a5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20081218115234.0e11a824@teksavvy.com> <494A83EC.5050604@rogers.com> <494A8814.6040404@utoronto.ca> <494A8A04.9000708@rogers.com> <20081218192117.GX5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df280812190920n1ce17262oc971c450193ea9a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090105153916.GB29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 12:20:19PM -0500, Giles Orr wrote: > http://www.dpreview.com/ offers full technical specs for almost every > digital camera ever made (including video resolution and fps ... but > not necessarily the format it seems, sorry). They also provide > extensive reviews of many of the cameras. > > To address Joe's original question, I'd like to suggest (along with a > few others) taking the card out of the camera and plugging it into a > card reader. This is very easy and avoids all compatibility problems, > and (a minor and as yet unmentioned detail) doesn't use the camera > battery. Or require you to carry what's often a proprietary cable. Well having mainly dealt with canon and panasonic so far, I have only ever seen the standard USB2 micro connector. So same cable on everything. Who uses a proprietary connector anymore? > I have a Nikon 5400 which spent six months in southeast Asia with me, > and has now taken over 7000 photos: wear on the CF slot and cards is a > non-issue despite the frequency with which I've pulled them out and > put them in. It's designed for that and you'd have to be really rough > on them to cause significant damage. The same thing applies to SD > cards or pretty much any other removable media. CF is quite durable. SD isn't bad either, but the USB connector is a lot tougher, and easier to get to in most cases. And unless your computer has the card reader built in, then you have yet another device to carry around. -- Len Sorensen- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 15:47:21 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:47:21 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49621993.6000401-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> Stephen wrote: >> A weird thing happened though; About five years ago I started using >> Linux and F/OSS. By "use" I mean "totally fell in love with". So, >> over the weekend my gaming PC died. I decided to rebuild it, and >> because of Linux, I bought a proper copy of MS Vista. Not quite sure how to parse this... - The quality/usability of Linux as a games system forced you to buy Vista - Because Linux has taught you respect for intellectual property (through the GPL), you chose to buy (rather than pirate) Vista Was it either or both? >> So Microsoft, thank F/OSS for getting your hands on my ~$160. You are aware that it is still possible to buy OEM copies of XP for less... http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=001229&cid=SW.815 > Why did you buy a computer just for gaming? > > You could get a PS3 for $400 (and install Linux on it as well!) Those were my thoughts as well (though I assumed that running Linux is less important than the gaming). My friends who are deep into this say that the Xbox and Wii are both much better systems (albeit in very different ways). And besides, I don't buy Sony -- they've done too many lame anti-consumer moves in the last few years. One would think that, even if you had a moderate software investment, replacing the games _and_ getting a new Xbox/PS3 system would be less expensive -- and probably better performing -- compared to a games-capable PC. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 15:48:33 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:48:33 -0500 Subject: (OT) Cameras in low light In-Reply-To: <494BDE1A.3000003-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20081218115234.0e11a824@teksavvy.com> <494A83EC.5050604@rogers.com> <494A8814.6040404@utoronto.ca> <494A8A04.9000708@rogers.com> <20081218192117.GX5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <494BDE1A.3000003@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20090105154833.GC29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 12:47:06PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Full frame, APS-C, 4:3, the sensor format (while it does matter a > little) won't make a bit of difference without good lenses. Seriously, > if going the DSLR route, lenses are the most important part. Sounds like > you're after the so called "fast fifty", that is a 50mm prime lens with > maximum aperture of f1.4 (or lower but those are pricey). > > Here's an example with one handheld, f1.4 at 1/20s, iso400. My camera is > not full frame and I'd happily make 24"x36" prints with it's measly > 10mpx APS-C sensor. http://flickr.com/photos/jamonation/3090300056/ It's > all in the glass.. NO, it certainly is NOT all in the glass. The lens is very important, but a sensor with 2 or 3 times the surface area will receive more light and _should_ be able to handle lower light conditions. There is apparently also difference in sensor technology (CMOS, CCD). Of course a crappy lens that doesn't let light in in the first place won't help you no matter what sensor you have. So good lens + good sensor = good setup. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 15:53:57 2009 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:53:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: (OT) Cameras in low light Message-ID: <878364.70734.qm@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > NO, it certainly is NOT all in the glass. The lens is very important, > but a sensor with 2 or 3 times the surface area will receive more light > and _should_ be able to handle lower light conditions. There is > apparently also difference in sensor technology (CMOS, CCD). I'm being pedantic here but... What is it that controls how much light reaches the sensor? Glass. The sensor has nothing to do with how much light hits it. However, it does have everything to do with how it interprets the light hitting it. Having said that, yes, for this reason there are some sensors that are better than others at performing in low light conditions. -M -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 15:55:55 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:55:55 -0500 Subject: GRAH!?! In-Reply-To: <494C217D.9040007-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <494BCFA7.6010705@alteeve.com> <494C217D.9040007@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090105155555.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 05:34:37PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Thanks for all the replies. I realized after I left that asking the list > admin to check logins was pretty darn dumb of me... this is a mailing > list, not a BBS. D'oh! Isn't there also public archives of the list in which case anyone capturing url's or the like from the archive could have gone there without even being a subscriber. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 15:57:07 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:57:07 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49622994.4010806-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> On 05/01/2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > > The only two games I play are World of Warcraft and EvE Online (both PC-only > MMO's). > > Madi You can play "EVE Online" under Linux, as well as World of Warcraft using Cedega...so really you wasted $160 for nothing. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:35:43 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:35:43 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: > You can play "EVE Online" under Linux, as well as World of Warcraft > using Cedega...so really you wasted $160 for nothing. I tried the Linux client for EvE and it crashed on close... I was never able to even adjust the video settings. Apparently it doesn't work well with ATI video cards. As for WoW, there were too many reports of Cedega/Wine users getting banned because Blizzard detected hacks running for me to be comfortable risking it. If I could reliably play both under Linux, I would in a heart beat. The truth of it though is that, for all Linux's strengths, gaming is not one of them (yet). Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:39:28 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:39:28 -0500 Subject: GRAH!?! In-Reply-To: <20090105155555.GD29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <494BCFA7.6010705@alteeve.com> <494C217D.9040007@alteeve.com> <20090105155555.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901050839u5e0d161dg349e4799c7ca3a96@mail.gmail.com> Technically some dingbat could have pulled it from the archived copies online as opposed to actual email, but if they actually posted to the list itself then the sending IP-address might be in the headers and match the IP(s) used to post the crap on codetocode. However, if most of these are coming from public areas such as libraries or bell, etc, then there could be other (innocent) users who showed up with the same IP. - TJA On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 05:34:37PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Thanks for all the replies. I realized after I left that asking the list >> admin to check logins was pretty darn dumb of me... this is a mailing >> list, not a BBS. D'oh! > > Isn't there also public archives of the list in which case anyone > capturing url's or the like from the archive could have gone there > without even being a subscriber. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:40:28 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:40:28 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <496236DF.2040307-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> On 05/01/2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > I tried the Linux client for EvE and it crashed on close... I was never able > to even adjust the video settings. Apparently it doesn't work well with ATI > video cards. As for WoW, there were too many reports of Cedega/Wine users > getting banned because Blizzard detected hacks running for me to be > comfortable risking it. > > If I could reliably play both under Linux, I would in a heart beat. The > truth of it though is that, for all Linux's strengths, gaming is not one of > them (yet). > > > Madi That problem with Cedega was fixed a long time ago. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:40:51 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:40:51 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49622B89.5070500-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> Message-ID: <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Stephen wrote: >>> A weird thing happened though; About five years ago I started using >>> Linux and F/OSS. By "use" I mean "totally fell in love with". So, >>> over the weekend my gaming PC died. I decided to rebuild it, and >>> because of Linux, I bought a proper copy of MS Vista. > Not quite sure how to parse this... > > - The quality/usability of Linux as a games system forced you to buy Vista > > - Because Linux has taught you respect for intellectual property > (through the GPL), you chose to buy (rather than pirate) Vista > > Was it either or both? Both, but mostly the later. The main point of my original post was the irony of OSS opening my eyes to the value of IP rights. >>> So Microsoft, thank F/OSS for getting your hands on my ~$160. > You are aware that it is still possible to buy OEM copies of XP for less... > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=001229&cid=SW.815 I decided to go Vista as I wanted a machine I'd not have to fuss with for a few years, and XP (though still a much better OS than Vista!), is on the back of the bell curve. >> Why did you buy a computer just for gaming? >> >> You could get a PS3 for $400 (and install Linux on it as well!) > > Those were my thoughts as well (though I assumed that running Linux is > less important than the gaming). My friends who are deep into this say > that the Xbox and Wii are both much better systems (albeit in very > different ways). And besides, I don't buy Sony -- they've done too many > lame anti-consumer moves in the last few years. > > One would think that, even if you had a moderate software investment, > replacing the games _and_ getting a new Xbox/PS3 system would be less > expensive -- and probably better performing -- compared to a > games-capable PC. We have a Wii, and it's really fun! As for why not a console, as I mentioned to Stephen, the two games I like to play are not on the consoles. Even is they were, they really need a keyboard and mouse. Also, I don't own a TV. :P Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:41:05 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:41:05 -0500 Subject: Templating advice In-Reply-To: <494F99D5.6080102-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <494F99D5.6080102@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090105164105.GE29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 08:44:53AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > I've been looking to update my HTML templating system to make it more > flexible. I'd like to have a templating system that would let a skin > redefine where various elements show up on the screen for any given page. > > Thus far, my system calls a file, reads a named section, substitutes > in variables and returns the finished HTML data as a string variable > that I print when I am ready. I was thinking about having a "layout" > template definition that tells the program where and in what order to > display the components. > > My question is how to go about doing this (from a high level view, > not from a program language level). > > I want the page to still layout sanely should CSS/JS be disabled, so > I want the foundation of the templating system to use basic HTML, if > possible. > > Any suggestions, warnings or caveats I should keep in mine before > delving into this? Look at: http://www.csszengarden.com/ CSS is the way to ensure consistent pages and to make layout and style changes very flexible. That page has hundreds of different style sheets all showing the exact same page of content and things move all over the page and change fonts and colours and images, and is just amazing. Doing it in the html is just so 90s, and really shouldn't be done anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:42:58 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:42:58 -0500 Subject: Anyone tried Nix? In-Reply-To: <20081223235303.0fa6b11e-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20081223235303.0fa6b11e@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090105164257.GF29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 11:53:03PM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > "A next-generation package manager called Nix provides a simple > distribution-independent method for deploying a binary or source package on > different flavours of Linux, including Ubuntu, Debian, SUSE, Fedora, and Red > Hat. Even better, Nix does not interfere with existing package managers. Unlike > existing package managers, Nix allows different versions of software to live > side by side, and permits sane rollbacks of software upgrades. Nix is a useful > system administration tool for heterogeneous environments and developers who > write software supported on different libraries, compilers, or interpreters." If it installs software on the machine, and doesn't directly do it using the package manager of the system, then it IS interfering with the package manager of the system. I also highly doubt that they can do sane rollbacks of upgrades in many cases. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:43:15 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:43:15 -0500 Subject: GRAH!?! In-Reply-To: <20090105155555.GD29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <494BCFA7.6010705@alteeve.com> <494C217D.9040007@alteeve.com> <20090105155555.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <496238A3.4000004@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 05:34:37PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Thanks for all the replies. I realized after I left that asking the list >> admin to check logins was pretty darn dumb of me... this is a mailing >> list, not a BBS. D'oh! > > Isn't there also public archives of the list in which case anyone > capturing url's or the like from the archive could have gone there > without even being a subscriber. I am sure, but the initial vandalism occured within minutes of my original post. I doubt the archives would have picked it up quite that fast, but it's certainly possible. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:43:55 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:43:55 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: > On 05/01/2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> I tried the Linux client for EvE and it crashed on close... I was never able >> to even adjust the video settings. Apparently it doesn't work well with ATI >> video cards. As for WoW, there were too many reports of Cedega/Wine users >> getting banned because Blizzard detected hacks running for me to be >> comfortable risking it. >> >> If I could reliably play both under Linux, I would in a heart beat. The >> truth of it though is that, for all Linux's strengths, gaming is not one of >> them (yet). >> >> >> Madi > > That problem with Cedega was fixed a long time ago. Really? Cool. How's the performance generally? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:44:12 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:44:12 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49623813.50901-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901050844g7f186938g9059687a06493643@mail.gmail.com> On 05/01/2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > I decided to go Vista as I wanted a machine I'd not have to fuss with for a > few years, and XP (though still a much better OS than Vista!), is on the > back of the bell curve. I would have waited until Windows 7, seeing as how Vista is the new Millennium.... -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:45:33 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:45:33 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49623813.50901-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> Madison Kelly wrote: > I decided to go Vista as I wanted a machine I'd not have to fuss with > for a few years, and XP (though still a much better OS than Vista!), > is on the back of the bell curve. I suspect that Microsoft will make it fairly painless to upgrade directly from XP to Windows 7, allowing a seamless leapfrog of Vista ... they can't risk pissing off even more users. > We have a Wii, and it's really fun! > > As for why not a console, as I mentioned to Stephen, the two games I > like to play are not on the consoles. Even is they were, they really > need a keyboard and mouse. Fair enough. > Also, I don't own a TV. :P Then how do you play on the Wii? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:46:14 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:46:14 -0500 Subject: Wireless Office In-Reply-To: <49593137.9060105-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49593137.9060105@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090105164614.GG29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 03:21:11PM -0500, Lance F. Squire wrote: > Looking at setting-up a wireless office. > > There is only one Linux box in the office used as the firewall. It will > be connecting directly to the wireless router. Doubt there will be much > problem there. > > The rest of the office is a mix of windows and Mac boxes. They are > thinking usb adapters would be the best way to go. Some of the boxes are > older. You might have very limited selection in which devices will work with the MACs, but I suspect apple sells some if nothing else. > Was wondering if anyone had set-up a similar network, and opinions on > the various venders. > > Was thinking of using Lynksys, I went with an Asus wifi router for home. Sure runs a lot cooler than linksys gear does, and it's faster too, just in case I ever decide to replace the firmware on it. Oh and the ram and flash is twice the size of most of the linksys boxes. Of course personally, I prefer things to work so wireless would be my last choice for connectivity. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:50:29 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:50:29 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <496238CB.10800-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> On 05/01/2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > Really? Cool. How's the performance generally? > > > Madi I have no idea, I play all games on Windows...don't currently have anything Linux however I am thinking of building my own file server and running Linux on it; if I can get some of the things I need for the system I found in the hallway of my building as it needs a vidcard, ram, HDD, DVD, and wiring...someone left the Pentium D & HSF in it but I don't know if it POSTs -- as I need the aforementioned items.. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:54:45 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:54:45 -0500 Subject: Wireless Office In-Reply-To: <4959493D.1020206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49593137.9060105@alteeve.com> <495937DB.2090307@gmail.com> <4959493D.1020206@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090105165445.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 05:03:41PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > That's why you use something called "encryption". WPA2 encryption has > not been broken and is very secure. Do not use WEP and use plain WPA, > if you can't do WPA2. Many WiFi routers can be configured to work with > both WPA & WPA2, depending on what the computer is capable of. Linux, > Vista, XP SP3 can do WPA2. XP SP2 can only do WPA. As far as I can tell, WPA (including WPA2) is only secure if you use the corporate mode, which involves using an authentication server. Preshared key has been broken I believe. So if you use TKIP with WPA or WPA2, then you might as well almost not bother. If you use AES _and_ 802.1x authentication agaist a radius server or similar, then you have pretty good security. Or just run a VPN link from every machine back to a central machine on the network, and don't ever run any unencrypted traffic on the wireless. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:56:48 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:56:48 -0500 Subject: Wireless Office In-Reply-To: <49595BB3.4090306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49593137.9060105@alteeve.com> <495937DB.2090307@gmail.com> <4959493D.1020206@rogers.com> <49594BA5.1050107@ss.org> <495950C2.8050600@gmail.com> <49595BB3.4090306@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090105165648.GI29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 06:22:27PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > WPA2 uses AES encryption and, when available, a RADIUS key server, which > makes a very secure combination (802.11i). If you're so worried, you'd > better not be using any commercial ISP or phone company, as it's much > easier to eavesdrop there. Then again, there's the question of whether > what you have to communicate is worth the effort required to break in. No, WPA2 mandages support for AES, it does not mandate use of AES. It still supposed TKIP. WEP and WPA also supported 802.1x authentication agaist a radius server. WPA2 didn't change anything there. > Don't forget, AES is not only approved by the NIST, it is also a > publicly available standard, which means any competent person can verify > it's integrity. Certainly a good idea to use it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:57:12 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:57:12 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <496236DF.2040307-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901050857v6949991dp85d50cb044e44fc6@mail.gmail.com> Actually I had an overall question/theory about this. Can anyone confirm or correct me on this... I believe that one of the issues with Cedega VS windows is that NVidia cards have better OpenGL support, and Cedega translates the applicable DirectX calls to the appropriate OpenGL ones (which in the case of ATI might not work as well if the GL support is lacking)? Since ATI has been bought out by AMD their drivers have (IMHO) improved greatly though, and according to slashdot they've open-sourced their drivers as well, so hopefully things will be even better in the future http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/30/0337204 - TJA On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Michael Lauzon wrote: >> >> You can play "EVE Online" under Linux, as well as World of Warcraft >> using Cedega...so really you wasted $160 for nothing. > > I tried the Linux client for EvE and it crashed on close... I was never able > to even adjust the video settings. Apparently it doesn't work well with ATI > video cards. As for WoW, there were too many reports of Cedega/Wine users > getting banned because Blizzard detected hacks running for me to be > comfortable risking it. > > If I could reliably play both under Linux, I would in a heart beat. The > truth of it though is that, for all Linux's strengths, gaming is not one of > them (yet). > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 16:58:15 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:58:15 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <4962392D.7090606-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> Message-ID: <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> I decided to go Vista as I wanted a machine I'd not have to fuss with >> for a few years, and XP (though still a much better OS than Vista!), >> is on the back of the bell curve. > I suspect that Microsoft will make it fairly painless to upgrade > directly from XP to Windows 7, allowing a seamless leapfrog of Vista ... > they can't risk pissing off even more users. > > >> We have a Wii, and it's really fun! >> >> As for why not a console, as I mentioned to Stephen, the two games I >> like to play are not on the consoles. Even is they were, they really >> need a keyboard and mouse. > > Fair enough. > >> Also, I don't own a TV. :P > > Then how do you play on the Wii? My boyfriend has a converter that lets him run his consoles on his monitor. Doesn't help me when he's using his machine though. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:00:36 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:00:36 -0500 Subject: Wireless Office In-Reply-To: References: <723652.52648.qm@web65406.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090105170036.GJ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 05:05:19PM -0500, Mel Wilson wrote: > Fernando Duran wrote: > [ ... ] > >I'm saying "almost always" to be cautious but in fact > >I've never heard for example of a real remote server > >that was compromised purely by cracking a current > >cryptographic algorithm, if somebody knows of a case > >I'd love to have a link. Most of the security problems > >in servers come from 1) weak passwords and 2) > >unpatched old software. > > According to Slashdot, SSL certificates may no longer be trustworthy.. > > No, MD5 based SSL certificates may no longer be trustworthy because MD5 has been broken. People have recommended for years to stop using MD5, yet some people don't listed (like verisign by the looks of it). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:00:57 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:00:57 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901050844g7f186938g9059687a06493643-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050844g7f186938g9059687a06493643@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49623CC9.6010109@alteeve.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: > On 05/01/2009, Madison Kelly wrote: >> I decided to go Vista as I wanted a machine I'd not have to fuss with for a >> few years, and XP (though still a much better OS than Vista!), is on the >> back of the bell curve. > > I would have waited until Windows 7, seeing as how Vista is the new > Millennium.... My system board cacked out, so I was building a new computer. I had hoped to delay the upgrade for some time, but I had to rebuild it over the weekend. If Windows 7 had been available... In all fairness though, when I first used Vista (helping clients), I couldn't believe how utterly terrible Vista was. However, SP1 seems to have addressed a lot of the issues. I still am pretty frustrated with how some things work (ie: auto-horizontal scrolling in windows explorer), but it seems *much* more stable. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:02:41 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:02:41 -0500 Subject: Wireless Office In-Reply-To: <20090105164614.GG29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49593137.9060105@alteeve.com> <20090105164614.GG29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49623D31.2020307@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > You might have very limited selection in which devices will work with > the MACs, but I suspect apple sells some if nothing else. Here's a set of instructions from the University of Wisconsin on connecting Apple computers to Linksys wireless routers. http://kb.wisc.edu/helpdesk/page.php?id=6443 John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:02:53 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:02:53 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49623D3D.8000409@alteeve.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: > On 05/01/2009, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Really? Cool. How's the performance generally? >> >> >> Madi > > I have no idea, I play all games on Windows...don't currently have > anything Linux however I am thinking of building my own file server > and running Linux on it; if I can get some of the things I need for > the system I found in the hallway of my building as it needs a > vidcard, ram, HDD, DVD, and wiring...someone left the Pentium D & HSF > in it but I don't know if it POSTs -- as I need the aforementioned > items.. I'm going to install Ubuntu on the machine this week, I will have to retry the EvE client and I'll try WoW on Cedega (they have a free trial?). If they work then Yup, I wasted my money. :P Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:09:12 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:09:12 -0500 Subject: Forwarded distro question In-Reply-To: <20081231124721.qy9qakt74sckc0k8-tFWc0ywIa9dhaKgzZVxdTVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <20081231124721.qy9qakt74sckc0k8@easymail.pathcom.com> Message-ID: <20090105170912.GK29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 12:47:21PM -0500, Phillip Mills wrote: > A friend, not on this list, asks for recommendations of a specific > distributions, "that will run on a Lenovo T-43 laptop and will be able > to use the built-in WiFi." Well given the type of wifi built in is often a choice of 2 or 3 on lenovo's, which one does that particular machine have? Based on what I have seen on lenovo's most have either intel 3xxx or 4xxx or ath5k. I have seen one new one with an intel 5xxx last month, and well no linux support for that one yet. The intel 3xxx and 4xxx tends to work very well with the iwlwifi drivers and firmware that most current distributions contain (2.6.26 seems to work for those). There has been issues with the 3xxx in 2.6.26 for some systems, which appears to be fixed in 2.6.28, and the ath5k has issues on some machines too, which might be fixed in 2.6.28 as well. Wifi is a pain in the rear. :) I do know I helped someone at work install Debian lenny on a thinkpad t61p and the intel 4xxx wifi worked right away, as did everything else which was really quite a sight to see. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:09:49 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:09:49 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatible USB microphone or sound adapters Message-ID: <3a97ef0901050909p607982f0ka77b4d38aa620e7e@mail.gmail.com> Hey All, Awhile back I got an HP tx2500 series laptop to replace my old and heavy portable rig. It actually runs quite nicely in linux, but one of the continual annoyances I've had with it is that the microphone input doesn't work on the soundcard (so no skype/voice-chat/etc). I picked up an el-cheapo USB soundcard, and unfortunately it's the same issue (output works fine, input has no luck). It's detected as: [1481307.799208] input: C-Media USB Audio Device as /class/input/input5 [1481307.799320] input: USB HID v1.00 Device [C-Media USB Audio Device ] on usb-0000:00:02.0-6 [1481308.001077] usbcore: registered new interface driver snd-usb-audio I'm fairly sure, however, that it's not an issue with ALSA itself (other than poorly-supported cards) because I pulled the Logitech USB microphone from my 360 (Rockband) and - while it's huge and unwieldy - it sounds great. The regular mic itself seems to be working as well when I test it on other machines. So what I need to find at this point is a portable USB-soundcard adaptor that works with ALSA for input, or a smaller USB microphone that I can drag around with the laptop. The former is preferable though. Anyone have any recommendations in this area? - TJA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:15:25 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:15:25 -0500 Subject: anyone used a display port driver for a dell laptop with one of those ports? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090105171525.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 05:10:20PM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > given that *someone* on this list has probably seen these, has > anyone seen one of the newer dell (latitude?) laptops with the funky > new display port video output, and figured out where to get a driver > to make use of such a thing? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_port It doesn't need a driver. It is a plug. You just need the driver for the video card, and of course a monitor that supports the port. My monitor at work has a displayport input (among many others). It is a Dell, which is probably no surprise given almost noone else uses it. Dell and Apple seems to be the major pushers of displayport so far. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:17:46 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:17:46 -0500 Subject: Forwarded distro question In-Reply-To: <20081231124721.qy9qakt74sckc0k8-tFWc0ywIa9dhaKgzZVxdTVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <20081231124721.qy9qakt74sckc0k8@easymail.pathcom.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901050917p4a530a2ewdd69421f7fc85371@mail.gmail.com> On my buddy's laptop Ubuntu worked fine. I haven't tried on a T-43 but I've found most of the IBM/Lenovo stuff tends to use decent wifi cards (Intel or Atheros, not that broadcomm crap) with good linux support. Really, the compatibility is more a function of the kernel than the distro, although the latter can make it easier depending on what the default included kernel is or wifi tools etc (networkmanager-xxx is nice for GUI stuff). Why not try a Ubuntu LiveCD and see if it "just works?" On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Phillip Mills wrote: > A friend, not on this list, asks for recommendations of a specific > distributions, "that will run on a Lenovo T-43 laptop and will be able to > use the built-in WiFi." > > Suggestions? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:25:31 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:25:31 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901050857v6949991dp85d50cb044e44fc6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901050857v6949991dp85d50cb044e44fc6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090105172530.GM29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:57:12AM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Actually I had an overall question/theory about this. Can anyone > confirm or correct me on this... > > > I believe that one of the issues with Cedega VS windows is that NVidia > cards have better OpenGL support, and Cedega translates the applicable > DirectX calls to the appropriate OpenGL ones (which in the case of ATI > might not work as well if the GL support is lacking)? Since ATI has > been bought out by AMD their drivers have (IMHO) improved greatly > though, and according to slashdot they've open-sourced their drivers > as well, so hopefully things will be even better in the future > > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/30/0337204 They might have improved but they still aren't great. Having installed a few ATI video cards at work recently I was rather surprised to find that: The fglrx driver crashes (and takes the machine with it) if you don't explicitly tell it to use 24bit colour in the xorg.conf file. Apparently by default it wants to use 8bit, and it also happens to not support 8bit (says so in the crash log), and rather than exiting with that message, it crashes. Strangely every other driver I have ever used with xorg defaults to 24bit colour, and none of them crash either. They may fail to run and exit with an error, but they don't crash. So until the day there are full open specs for the ATI cards and someone other than ati writes a driver from scratch, I just wouldn't bother. Clearly ATI still can't write drivers. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:29:36 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:29:36 -0500 Subject: Wireless Office In-Reply-To: <20090105165445.GH29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49593137.9060105@alteeve.com> <495937DB.2090307@gmail.com> <4959493D.1020206@rogers.com> <20090105165445.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49624380.2090101@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 05:03:41PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >> That's why you use something called "encryption". WPA2 encryption has >> not been broken and is very secure. Do not use WEP and use plain WPA, >> if you can't do WPA2. Many WiFi routers can be configured to work with >> both WPA & WPA2, depending on what the computer is capable of. Linux, >> Vista, XP SP3 can do WPA2. XP SP2 can only do WPA. > > As far as I can tell, WPA (including WPA2) is only secure if you use the > corporate mode, which involves using an authentication server. > Preshared key has been broken I believe. > > So if you use TKIP with WPA or WPA2, then you might as well almost not > bother. IIRC, WPA has been partially broken, but not WPA2. WPA was supposed to be an interim measure, while waiting for 802.11i to be finalized. WPA2 is 802.11i, but with a pre-shared key instead of a RADIUS server. TKIP is a weak point. > > If you use AES _and_ 802.1x authentication agaist a radius server or > similar, then you have pretty good security. > > Or just run a VPN link from every machine back to a central machine on > the network, and don't ever run any unencrypted traffic on the wireless. > That's what I do. My home WiFi is WPA2 with the WiFi router outside my firewall. The only way into my home network is via OpenVPN or SSH. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:33:12 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:33:12 -0500 Subject: Wireless Office In-Reply-To: <20090105165648.GI29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49593137.9060105@alteeve.com> <495937DB.2090307@gmail.com> <4959493D.1020206@rogers.com> <49594BA5.1050107@ss.org> <495950C2.8050600@gmail.com> <49595BB3.4090306@rogers.com> <20090105165648.GI29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49624458.2000005@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 06:22:27PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >> WPA2 uses AES encryption and, when available, a RADIUS key server, which >> makes a very secure combination (802.11i). If you're so worried, you'd >> better not be using any commercial ISP or phone company, as it's much >> easier to eavesdrop there. Then again, there's the question of whether >> what you have to communicate is worth the effort required to break in. > > No, WPA2 mandages support for AES, it does not mandate use of AES. It > still supposed TKIP. WEP and WPA also supported 802.1x authentication > agaist a radius server. WPA2 didn't change anything there. > >> Don't forget, AES is not only approved by the NIST, it is also a >> publicly available standard, which means any competent person can verify >> it's integrity. > > Certainly a good idea to use it. > When I connect to my WPA2 WiFi, Knetworkmanager shows "RSN" or "Robust Security Network", which is the best you can do, short of using a RADIUS server. If you run TKIP, you don't see that. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:33:58 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:33:58 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901050844g7f186938g9059687a06493643-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050844g7f186938g9059687a06493643@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090105173358.GN29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:44:12AM -0500, Michael Lauzon wrote: > I would have waited until Windows 7, seeing as how Vista is the new > Millennium.... It really is not. The worst thing about vista is that it is rather big and a resource hog. On the other hand the improvements ot the GUI and usability are huge (too bad that doesn't make a nice bullet point for advertising). Yes it really does want 2GB of ram to run properly, just like XP really needed 1GB to run well. It also seems to take 15 to 20GB of disk space, for I have no idea what. Now given that's about $0.25 worth of disk space these days, I guess it doesn't matter. Yes the eye candy is just that, eye candy. it does look pretty and it can be turned off. The ability to search in the start menu and control panel and lots of other places is briliant though. If I have to deal with a machine running windows, I want vista, not XP and certainly no 2k. It's just too much work. Windows 7 will of course get the benefit of all the new driver hassles having been solved by vista, so where vista looked bad for having driver issues, windows 7 will look good for having no driver issues because it is using the same drivers. XP got away with that too by using the same drivers in most cases as 2k. I do think the initial pricing on vista was nuts though. Ultimate edition was $500 or so, although it is now a slightly more reasonable $300. Still a lot of money for the OS, when you can get a better OS for nothing. Now Windows Me was just awful. It was all the legacy of windows 9x, without the ability to actually use the legacy (DOS) when you wanted to. So it had DOS underneath but wouldn't let you boot to it directly anymore. And they tried to replace the network stack and a few other things with pieces from win 2k as far as I know, which also didn't go so well. Overall it was unstable, and had no benefits over win 98, only disadvantages. Vista clearly has benefits over XP, although they are not the ones microsoft has been hyping. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:35:39 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:35:39 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901050857v6949991dp85d50cb044e44fc6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901050857v6949991dp85d50cb044e44fc6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496244EB.3010403@alteeve.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Actually I had an overall question/theory about this. Can anyone > confirm or correct me on this... > > > I believe that one of the issues with Cedega VS windows is that NVidia > cards have better OpenGL support, and Cedega translates the applicable > DirectX calls to the appropriate OpenGL ones (which in the case of ATI > might not work as well if the GL support is lacking)? Since ATI has > been bought out by AMD their drivers have (IMHO) improved greatly > though, and according to slashdot they've open-sourced their drivers > as well, so hopefully things will be even better in the future > > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/30/0337204 > > > - TJA That would explain why nVidia cards are supported and ATI have issues in the EvE client. Fingers-crossed for better future support! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:36:06 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:36:06 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105172530.GM29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901050857v6949991dp85d50cb044e44fc6@mail.gmail.com> <20090105172530.GM29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49624506.2030309@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:57:12AM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Actually I had an overall question/theory about this. Can anyone >> confirm or correct me on this... >> >> >> I believe that one of the issues with Cedega VS windows is that NVidia >> cards have better OpenGL support, and Cedega translates the applicable >> DirectX calls to the appropriate OpenGL ones (which in the case of ATI >> might not work as well if the GL support is lacking)? Since ATI has >> been bought out by AMD their drivers have (IMHO) improved greatly >> though, and according to slashdot they've open-sourced their drivers >> as well, so hopefully things will be even better in the future >> >> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/30/0337204 > > They might have improved but they still aren't great. > > Having installed a few ATI video cards at work recently I was rather > surprised to find that: > > The fglrx driver crashes (and takes the machine with it) if you don't > explicitly tell it to use 24bit colour in the xorg.conf file. > Apparently by default it wants to use 8bit, and it also happens to not > support 8bit (says so in the crash log), and rather than exiting with > that message, it crashes. > > Strangely every other driver I have ever used with xorg defaults to > 24bit colour, and none of them crash either. They may fail to run and > exit with an error, but they don't crash. > > So until the day there are full open specs for the ATI cards and someone > other than ati writes a driver from scratch, I just wouldn't bother. > Clearly ATI still can't write drivers. That probably just saved me a boat-load of hurt when I install Ubuntu this week, thank you! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:36:24 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:36:24 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <4962392D.7090606-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090105173624.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:45:33AM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will make it fairly painless to upgrade > directly from XP to Windows 7, allowing a seamless leapfrog of Vista ... > they can't risk pissing off even more users. I wouldn't count on it. You couldn't upgrade from 2k to vista, only from XP. An upgrade from vista to win7 will have a lot less driver issues and such to worry about, and the majority of the application compatibility issues would have already been solved on vista, while things that work with XP might not work with either vista of win7, so you get all those issues again. Besides a fresh install of windows is still a good idea. This isn't Debian you are dealing with after all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:37:13 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:37:13 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49623C27.7020106-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:58:15AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > My boyfriend has a converter that lets him run his consoles on his > monitor. Doesn't help me when he's using his machine though. :) My monitor has composite, svideo and component inputs, so consoles are no problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:42:51 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:42:51 -0500 Subject: Linux-compatible USB microphone or sound adapters In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901050909p607982f0ka77b4d38aa620e7e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901050909p607982f0ka77b4d38aa620e7e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090105174251.GQ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:09:49PM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Awhile back I got an HP tx2500 series laptop to replace my old and > heavy portable rig. It actually runs quite nicely in linux, but one of > the continual annoyances I've had with it is that the microphone input > doesn't work on the soundcard (so no skype/voice-chat/etc). I picked > up an el-cheapo USB soundcard, and unfortunately it's the same issue > (output works fine, input has no luck). It's detected as: > [1481307.799208] input: C-Media USB Audio Device as /class/input/input5 > [1481307.799320] input: USB HID v1.00 Device [C-Media USB Audio Device > ] on usb-0000:00:02.0-6 > [1481308.001077] usbcore: registered new interface driver snd-usb-audio > > I'm fairly sure, however, that it's not an issue with ALSA itself > (other than poorly-supported cards) because I pulled the Logitech USB > microphone from my 360 (Rockband) and - while it's huge and unwieldy - > it sounds great. The regular mic itself seems to be working as well > when I test it on other machines. > > So what I need to find at this point is a portable USB-soundcard > adaptor that works with ALSA for input, or a smaller USB microphone > that I can drag around with the laptop. The former is preferable > though. > > Anyone have any recommendations in this area? Well I picked up a logitech USB headset for my wife, which seems to work just fine in linux and windows. Would that work? Now a problem with USB audio devices is that many behave as SPDIF and have fixed frequencies. That means either the applications has to be willing to deal with that specific frequency and format for input, or you need to have alsa do conversion for you. I have seen some example .asoundrc files to setup such input convertion. On the other hand ekiga seemed to have no problem with the USB headset, even though some othter applications needed some convincing, so at least chat worked (I won't touch skype). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:46:54 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:46:54 -0500 Subject: Wireless Office In-Reply-To: <49624380.2090101-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49593137.9060105@alteeve.com> <495937DB.2090307@gmail.com> <4959493D.1020206@rogers.com> <20090105165445.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49624380.2090101@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090105174654.GR29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:29:36PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > IIRC, WPA has been partially broken, but not WPA2. WPA was supposed to > be an interim measure, while waiting for 802.11i to be finalized. WPA2 > is 802.11i, but with a pre-shared key instead of a RADIUS server. TKIP > is a weak point. WPA2 does not add anything to WPA security wise, other than mandating AES must be supported. PSK is as far as I know considered insecure on either. Perhaps not completely trivial to break, but certainly something that could be done within hours or days as far as I have understood. > That's what I do. My home WiFi is WPA2 with the WiFi router outside my > firewall. The only way into my home network is via OpenVPN or SSH. Certainly the best way to get security. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:49:28 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:49:28 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49623D3D.8000409-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> <49623D3D.8000409@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090105124928.28971a80@teksavvy.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Michael Lauzon wrote: > > On 05/01/2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Really? Cool. How's the performance generally? > >> > >> > >> Madi > > > > I have no idea, I play all games on Windows...don't currently have > > anything Linux however I am thinking of building my own file server > > and running Linux on it; if I can get some of the things I need for > > the system I found in the hallway of my building as it needs a > > vidcard, ram, HDD, DVD, and wiring...someone left the Pentium D & HSF > > in it but I don't know if it POSTs -- as I need the aforementioned > > items.. > > I'm going to install Ubuntu on the machine this week, I will have to > retry the EvE client and I'll try WoW on Cedega (they have a free > trial?). If they work then Yup, I wasted my money. :P WoW and almost anything else should work very well under Wine. I can run WoW and even Spore, though Spore being relatively new it has some minor graphical issues. Building and installing the latest Wine is so simple on a Debian system a total beginner could do it. Cedega has never ever worked properly for me, much like any other proprietary crap I've tried. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:56:06 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:56:06 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105173713.GP29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:58:15AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> My boyfriend has a converter that lets him run his consoles on his >> monitor. Doesn't help me when he's using his machine though. :) > > My monitor has composite, svideo and component inputs, so consoles are > no problem. > We're looking at getting a shared monitor specifically for the Wii and PS2. If/when we do, we'd get one with component as well. At the moment though, my monitor is a generic DVI. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 17:57:11 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:57:11 -0500 Subject: Compatible USB wireless Message-ID: <496249F7.5080802@rogers.com> I'm about to install Mepis 8 on my Acer Aspire 5003WMI laptop. The live CD runs fine but the Broadcom 4318 card isn't recognized (no surprise) due to Acer's wmi cruft. I fully expect to use ndiswrapper and the newest WinXP driver, but in the event that this proves problematic (the original Win driver I obtained was limited to WEP), could the people on the list recommend a usb wireless device that works well with linux? FWIW, Mepis 8 is based on Debian (lenny). TIA John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:01:41 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:01:41 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105173624.GO29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <20090105173624.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49624B05.5080400@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:45:33AM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft will make it fairly painless to upgrade >> directly from XP to Windows 7, allowing a seamless leapfrog of Vista ... >> they can't risk pissing off even more users. > > I wouldn't count on it. You couldn't upgrade from 2k to vista, only > from XP. An upgrade from vista to win7 will have a lot less driver > issues and such to worry about, and the majority of the application > compatibility issues would have already been solved on vista, while > things that work with XP might not work with either vista of win7, so > you get all those issues again. > > Besides a fresh install of windows is still a good idea. This isn't > Debian you are dealing with after all. Part of what I am banking on with this new system (new hardware underneath, too) is that it will last me for a few years of my (modest) gaming needs. I am hoping that by then, gaming on Linux will have matured and I can sever my last tether to Windows entirely. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:03:59 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:03:59 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105124928.28971a80-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> <49623D3D.8000409@alteeve.com> <20090105124928.28971a80@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <49624B8F.7060703@alteeve.com> JoeHill wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Michael Lauzon wrote: >>> On 05/01/2009, Madison Kelly wrote: >>>> Really? Cool. How's the performance generally? >>>> >>>> >>>> Madi >>> I have no idea, I play all games on Windows...don't currently have >>> anything Linux however I am thinking of building my own file server >>> and running Linux on it; if I can get some of the things I need for >>> the system I found in the hallway of my building as it needs a >>> vidcard, ram, HDD, DVD, and wiring...someone left the Pentium D & HSF >>> in it but I don't know if it POSTs -- as I need the aforementioned >>> items.. >> I'm going to install Ubuntu on the machine this week, I will have to >> retry the EvE client and I'll try WoW on Cedega (they have a free >> trial?). If they work then Yup, I wasted my money. :P > > WoW and almost anything else should work very well under Wine. I can run WoW > and even Spore, though Spore being relatively new it has some minor graphical > issues. > > Building and installing the latest Wine is so simple on a Debian system a total > beginner could do it. > > Cedega has never ever worked properly for me, much like any other proprietary > crap I've tried. Huh, have you tried WoW on Wine? I'll give this a shot either way. Last I played with Wine was some time ago and I was quite unimpressed. I guess it has improved much since then. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:07:02 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:07:02 -0500 Subject: Compatible USB wireless In-Reply-To: <496249F7.5080802-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <496249F7.5080802@rogers.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901051007o1ff5a1e7s8ebb45614c935072@mail.gmail.com> The wireless "N" broadcom chipset on my laptop also doesn't seem to behave very well. Doesn't work natively with b43, doesn't work with ndiswrapper, and with the closed-source "WL" driver from broadcom likes to disconnect rather frequently. So I grabbed a TP-Link/RaLink wireless USB adaptor and all has been well for surfing. It's slightly bigger than a USB memory stick, but still fairly low-profile while getting a decent signal. I'll check what the exact model is when I get home, but there's a native kernel driver that works nicely. - TJA On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 12:57 PM, John McGregor wrote: > I'm about to install Mepis 8 on my Acer Aspire 5003WMI laptop. The live > CD runs fine but the Broadcom 4318 card isn't recognized (no surprise) > due to Acer's wmi cruft. I fully expect to use ndiswrapper and the > newest WinXP driver, but in the event that this proves problematic (the > original Win driver I obtained was limited to WEP), could the people on > the list recommend a usb wireless device that works well with linux? > FWIW, Mepis 8 is based on Debian (lenny). > > TIA > > John > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:09:12 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:09:12 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49624B05.5080400-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <20090105173624.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49624B05.5080400@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901051009h78f3468ct4a6274a88604ed6f@mail.gmail.com> On 05/01/2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > Part of what I am banking on with this new system (new hardware underneath, > too) is that it will last me for a few years of my (modest) gaming needs. I > am hoping that by then, gaming on Linux will have matured and I can sever my > last tether to Windows entirely. > > Madi We had some good games on Linux because of Loki, however we do know how that turned out...supposedly the Unreal games could be played on Linux natively; I heard that Microsoft is buying -- bought? -- Epic but I cannot find any evidence to that regard because UT3 was supposed to be on Linux as well. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:09:40 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:09:40 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105172530.GM29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901050857v6949991dp85d50cb044e44fc6@mail.gmail.com> <20090105172530.GM29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901051009w4ebba4e8s9ea4fd24cf39b78a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:57:12AM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Actually I had an overall question/theory about this. Can anyone >> confirm or correct me on this... >> >> >> I believe that one of the issues with Cedega VS windows is that NVidia >> cards have better OpenGL support, and Cedega translates the applicable >> DirectX calls to the appropriate OpenGL ones (which in the case of ATI >> might not work as well if the GL support is lacking)? Since ATI has >> been bought out by AMD their drivers have (IMHO) improved greatly >> though, and according to slashdot they've open-sourced their drivers >> as well, so hopefully things will be even better in the future >> >> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/30/0337204 > > They might have improved but they still aren't great. > > Having installed a few ATI video cards at work recently I was rather > surprised to find that: > > The fglrx driver crashes (and takes the machine with it) if you don't > explicitly tell it to use 24bit colour in the xorg.conf file. > Apparently by default it wants to use 8bit, and it also happens to not > support 8bit (says so in the crash log), and rather than exiting with > that message, it crashes. > > Strangely every other driver I have ever used with xorg defaults to > 24bit colour, and none of them crash either. They may fail to run and > exit with an error, but they don't crash. > > So until the day there are full open specs for the ATI cards and someone > other than ati writes a driver from scratch, I just wouldn't bother. > Clearly ATI still can't write drivers. > Well, according to the slashdot article I linked there are open specs now, so hopefully good Open-Source drivers will follow. As for the crashing, what card was it, and did you try updating your xorg.conf with the "aticonfig" command? > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:17:12 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:17:12 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <496249B6.6060503-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:58:15AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> My boyfriend has a converter that lets him run his consoles on his >>> monitor. Doesn't help me when he's using his machine though. :) >> >> My monitor has composite, svideo and component inputs, so consoles are >> no problem. >> > > We're looking at getting a shared monitor specifically for the Wii and > PS2. If/when we do, we'd get one with component as well. At the moment > though, my monitor is a generic DVI. FWIW, I recently bought a 42" HDTV that can be used as a computer monitor at up to 1600 x 1200. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:18:19 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:18:19 -0800 Subject: Compatible USB wireless In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901051007o1ff5a1e7s8ebb45614c935072-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <496249F7.5080802@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901051007o1ff5a1e7s8ebb45614c935072@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420901051018x14292a70k5445e83b6b908c81@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > So I grabbed a TP-Link/RaLink wireless USB adaptor and all has been > well for surfing. It's slightly bigger than a USB memory stick, but > still fairly low-profile while getting a decent signal. > I'll check what the exact model is when I get home, but there's a > native kernel driver that works nicely. Can you compare battery consumption between an onboard wifi card vs. a USB stick? I have a couple of machines that work with "traditional" 802.11g cards, but I'd like to upgrade to 802.11n one day and a USB adapter sounds pretty convenient. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:19:18 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:19:18 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49624B8F.7060703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> <49623D3D.8000409@alteeve.com> <20090105124928.28971a80@teksavvy.com> <49624B8F.7060703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49624F26.6090906@telly.org> Madison Kelly wrote: > > Huh, have you tried WoW on Wine? I'll give this a shot either way. > Last I played with Wine was some time ago and I was quite unimpressed. > I guess it has improved much since then. Codeweavers, which makes the "crossover" suite of commercially-supported Wine implementations, has a gamers' version. I notice that both both WoW and EvE are explicitly supported, though with a few bugs. And the $40 one-time price would be less expensive than the Cedega subscription. They make a free trial available you you can test the suitability out for yourself. Or, there's always the completely free version of Wine, which after what seemed like a decade of beta is now at V1.1.12. Both WoW and EVE have their own entries in the Wine compatibility database: WoW: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=14154 EVE: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=9971 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:21:35 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:21:35 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49624B8F.7060703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> <49623D3D.8000409@alteeve.com> <20090105124928.28971a80@teksavvy.com> <49624B8F.7060703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090105132135.31da26aa@teksavvy.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > JoeHill wrote: > > Madison Kelly wrote: > > > >> Michael Lauzon wrote: > >>> On 05/01/2009, Madison Kelly wrote: > >>>> Really? Cool. How's the performance generally? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Madi > >>> I have no idea, I play all games on Windows...don't currently have > >>> anything Linux however I am thinking of building my own file server > >>> and running Linux on it; if I can get some of the things I need for > >>> the system I found in the hallway of my building as it needs a > >>> vidcard, ram, HDD, DVD, and wiring...someone left the Pentium D & HSF > >>> in it but I don't know if it POSTs -- as I need the aforementioned > >>> items.. > >> I'm going to install Ubuntu on the machine this week, I will have to > >> retry the EvE client and I'll try WoW on Cedega (they have a free > >> trial?). If they work then Yup, I wasted my money. :P > > > > WoW and almost anything else should work very well under Wine. I can run WoW > > and even Spore, though Spore being relatively new it has some minor > > graphical issues. > > > > Building and installing the latest Wine is so simple on a Debian system a > > total beginner could do it. > > > > Cedega has never ever worked properly for me, much like any other > > proprietary crap I've tried. > > Huh, have you tried WoW on Wine? I'll give this a shot either way. Last > I played with Wine was some time ago and I was quite unimpressed. I > guess it has improved much since then. Last time I tried WoW under Wine it was perfect, I had no issues at all. Installing was just like 'apt-get build-dep wine, configure, make, make install'. That's it. Although on mine I did 'configure --prefix=/usr'. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:23:10 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:23:10 -0500 Subject: Compatible USB wireless In-Reply-To: <496249F7.5080802-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <496249F7.5080802@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4962500E.6020706@rogers.com> John McGregor wrote: > I'm about to install Mepis 8 on my Acer Aspire 5003WMI laptop. The live > CD runs fine but the Broadcom 4318 card isn't recognized (no surprise) > due to Acer's wmi cruft. I fully expect to use ndiswrapper and the > newest WinXP driver, but in the event that this proves problematic (the > original Win driver I obtained was limited to WEP), could the people on > the list recommend a usb wireless device that works well with linux? > FWIW, Mepis 8 is based on Debian (lenny). Is it possible to replace the wireless NIC? If so, one from Intel may prove suitable. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:25:37 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:25:37 -0500 Subject: Compatible USB wireless In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901051007o1ff5a1e7s8ebb45614c935072-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <496249F7.5080802@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901051007o1ff5a1e7s8ebb45614c935072@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496250A1.7020305@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > The wireless "N" broadcom chipset on my laptop also doesn't seem to > behave very well. Doesn't work natively with b43, doesn't work with > ndiswrapper, and with the closed-source "WL" driver from broadcom > likes to disconnect rather frequently. > > So I grabbed a TP-Link/RaLink wireless USB adaptor and all has been > well for surfing. It's slightly bigger than a USB memory stick, but > still fairly low-profile while getting a decent signal. > I'll check what the exact model is when I get home, but there's a > native kernel driver that works nicely. That would be great. Thanks John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:26:00 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:26:00 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49624EA8.1060400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> Message-ID: <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> James Knott wrote: >> We're looking at getting a shared monitor specifically for the Wii and >> PS2. If/when we do, we'd get one with component as well. At the moment >> though, my monitor is a generic DVI. > > FWIW, I recently bought a 42" HDTV that can be used as a computer > monitor at up to 1600 x 1200. Wow, I'd have no idea where I'd even put something that big! :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:28:51 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:28:51 -0500 Subject: Compatible USB wireless In-Reply-To: <7ac602420901051018x14292a70k5445e83b6b908c81-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <496249F7.5080802@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901051007o1ff5a1e7s8ebb45614c935072@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420901051018x14292a70k5445e83b6b908c81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49625163.5030302@rogers.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> So I grabbed a TP-Link/RaLink wireless USB adaptor and all has been >> well for surfing. It's slightly bigger than a USB memory stick, but >> still fairly low-profile while getting a decent signal. >> I'll check what the exact model is when I get home, but there's a >> native kernel driver that works nicely. > > Can you compare battery consumption between an onboard wifi card vs. a > USB stick? I have a couple of machines that work with "traditional" > 802.11g cards, but I'd like to upgrade to 802.11n one day and a USB > adapter sounds pretty convenient. In that situation, I'd seriously consider replacing the internal WiFi NIC, as you'll then be able to use the built in antenna. I did that with my ThinkPad. The original NIC in it would only do 802.11b and it did not work well with Linux WiFi utilities, though I could establish connections. I bought an Intel card and it worked well, though the swap cost me the telephone modem, which was built into the old card. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:30:52 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:30:52 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49624F26.6090906-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> <49623D3D.8000409@alteeve.com> <20090105124928.28971a80@teksavvy.com> <49624B8F.7060703@alteeve.com> <49624F26.6090906@telly.org> Message-ID: <496251DC.2040706@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> >> Huh, have you tried WoW on Wine? I'll give this a shot either way. >> Last I played with Wine was some time ago and I was quite unimpressed. >> I guess it has improved much since then. > Codeweavers, which makes the "crossover" suite of commercially-supported > Wine implementations, has a gamers' version. I notice that both both WoW > and EvE are explicitly supported, though with a few bugs. And the $40 > one-time price would be less expensive than the Cedega subscription. > They make a free trial available you you can test the suitability out > for yourself. FWIW, they were handing out free Crossover licenses for one day, a couple of months back. I got one, though I haven't used it yet. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:36:34 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:36:34 -0500 Subject: Compatible USB wireless In-Reply-To: <4962500E.6020706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <496249F7.5080802@rogers.com> <4962500E.6020706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49625332.8050802@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Is it possible to replace the wireless NIC? If so, one from Intel may > prove suitable. > Unfortunately no. I researched that option when the laptop was running Mepis 6 and the upshot is that Acer's wmi aplet will not allow switching out the wireless nic. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:40:05 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:40:05 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49624F26.6090906-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> <49623D3D.8000409@alteeve.com> <20090105124928.28971a80@teksavvy.com> <49624B8F.7060703@alteeve.com> <49624F26.6090906@telly.org> Message-ID: <49625405.8010502@alteeve.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Or, there's always the completely free version of Wine, which after what > seemed like a decade of beta is now at V1.1.12. Both WoW and EVE have > their own entries in the Wine compatibility database: > > WoW: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=14154 > > EVE: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=9971 > > - Evan Wonderful, thanks! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:41:02 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:41:02 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <496251DC.2040706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> <49623D3D.8000409@alteeve.com> <20090105124928.28971a80@teksavvy.com> <49624B8F.7060703@alteeve.com> <49624F26.6090906@telly.org> <496251DC.2040706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4962543E.8010409@alteeve.com> James Knott wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> Madison Kelly wrote: >>> >>> Huh, have you tried WoW on Wine? I'll give this a shot either way. >>> Last I played with Wine was some time ago and I was quite >>> unimpressed. I guess it has improved much since then. >> Codeweavers, which makes the "crossover" suite of >> commercially-supported Wine implementations, has a gamers' version. I >> notice that both both WoW and EvE are explicitly supported, though >> with a few bugs. And the $40 one-time price would be less expensive >> than the Cedega subscription. They make a free trial available you you >> can test the suitability out for yourself. > > FWIW, they were handing out free Crossover licenses for one day, a > couple of months back. I got one, though I haven't used it yet. Actually, I think I snagged one now that you mentioned it! I'll have to dig through my email when I get home tonight to see if I can find it. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:39:05 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:39:05 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <496250B8.6010705-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <496253C9.4060801@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > James Knott wrote: >>> We're looking at getting a shared monitor specifically for the Wii >>> and PS2. If/when we do, we'd get one with component as well. At the >>> moment though, my monitor is a generic DVI. >> >> FWIW, I recently bought a 42" HDTV that can be used as a computer >> monitor at up to 1600 x 1200. > > Wow, I'd have no idea where I'd even put something that big! :) > Mine's in the living room, across from the couch. One thing about this set, is it's easy to see who's putting out a crappy signal. ;-) While I haven't had an HDTV picture on it yet (real soon now), last night I watched a wide screen DVD, which used a mode of 480P that displays 16:9 pictures. Even at that lower resolution, it was quite impressive. BTW, this is the first TV I've ever had, that came with an RS-232 serial port! -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:47:12 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:47:12 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <496250B8.6010705-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:26:00PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> FWIW, I recently bought a 42" HDTV that can be used as a computer >> monitor at up to 1600 x 1200. > > Wow, I'd have no idea where I'd even put something that big! :) How practical would that be? When my two CRTs go I'm considering one large wide screen. I'm wondering what type of size, resolution and distance variables I need to consider. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:48:44 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:48:44 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <496253C9.4060801-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <496253C9.4060801@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4962560C.1030707@alteeve.com> James Knott wrote: > Mine's in the living room, across from the couch. One thing about this > set, is it's easy to see who's putting out a crappy signal. ;-) > > While I haven't had an HDTV picture on it yet (real soon now), last > night I watched a wide screen DVD, which used a mode of 480P that > displays 16:9 pictures. Even at that lower resolution, it was quite > impressive. > > BTW, this is the first TV I've ever had, that came with an RS-232 serial > port! If I had a living room, I might be keen. In a basement apartment though, so meh, it will have to wait. BTW, what the heck is the serial port for?! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:50:36 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:50:36 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105184712.GA29631-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:26:00PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> FWIW, I recently bought a 42" HDTV that can be used as a computer >>> monitor at up to 1600 x 1200. >> >> Wow, I'd have no idea where I'd even put something that big! :) > > How practical would that be? When my two CRTs go I'm considering one > large wide screen. I'm wondering what type of size, resolution and > distance variables I need to consider. When we want to watch a movie, we watch on my boyfriend's LCD which is a 22" (I think) at ~1680x1024. We have our couch about 2 meters back and we've never had a complaint watching anything on it. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:50:38 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:50:38 -0500 Subject: Wireless Office In-Reply-To: <20090105174654.GR29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49593137.9060105@alteeve.com> <495937DB.2090307@gmail.com> <4959493D.1020206@rogers.com> <20090105165445.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49624380.2090101@rogers.com> <20090105174654.GR29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4962567E.5010407@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:29:36PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >> IIRC, WPA has been partially broken, but not WPA2. WPA was supposed to >> be an interim measure, while waiting for 802.11i to be finalized. WPA2 >> is 802.11i, but with a pre-shared key instead of a RADIUS server. TKIP >> is a weak point. > > WPA2 does not add anything to WPA security wise, other than mandating > AES must be supported. It also uses CCMP, instead of TKIP for improved security. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCMP > > PSK is as far as I know considered insecure on either. Perhaps not > completely trivial to break, but certainly something that could be done > within hours or days as far as I have understood. Read up on CCMP, which uses AES for key management. > >> That's what I do. My home WiFi is WPA2 with the WiFi router outside my >> firewall. The only way into my home network is via OpenVPN or SSH. > > Certainly the best way to get security. > -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:53:20 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:53:20 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <4962567C.4070902-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:50:36PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > When we want to watch a movie, we watch on my boyfriend's LCD which is > a 22" (I think) at ~1680x1024. We have our couch about 2 meters back > and we've never had a complaint watching anything on it. I have a 42" in the living room. This one would be purely for computing. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:54:41 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:54:41 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105184712.GA29631-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <49625771.5010603@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:26:00PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> FWIW, I recently bought a 42" HDTV that can be used as a computer >>> monitor at up to 1600 x 1200. >> >> Wow, I'd have no idea where I'd even put something that big! :) > > How practical would that be? When my two CRTs go I'm considering one > large wide screen. I'm wondering what type of size, resolution and > distance variables I need to consider. > As a TV it`s very practical. It would also be good for making presentations. On the other hand it`s a bit big for a computer monitor, though it may be useful for CAD work. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:55:05 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:55:05 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <496251DC.2040706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> <49623D3D.8000409@alteeve.com> <20090105124928.28971a80@teksavvy.com> <49624B8F.7060703@alteeve.com> <49624F26.6090906@telly.org> <496251DC.2040706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090105135505.6a9c1ff6@teksavvy.com> James Knott wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Madison Kelly wrote: > >> > >> Huh, have you tried WoW on Wine? I'll give this a shot either way. > >> Last I played with Wine was some time ago and I was quite unimpressed. > >> I guess it has improved much since then. > > Codeweavers, which makes the "crossover" suite of commercially-supported > > Wine implementations, has a gamers' version. I notice that both both WoW > > and EvE are explicitly supported, though with a few bugs. And the $40 > > one-time price would be less expensive than the Cedega subscription. > > They make a free trial available you you can test the suitability out > > for yourself. > > FWIW, they were handing out free Crossover licenses for one day, a > couple of months back. I got one, though I haven't used it yet. I tried it with a couple of things that worked well under Wine: Spore and Halflife. Neither worked at all with Crossover. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:57:19 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:57:19 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <4962560C.1030707-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <496253C9.4060801@rogers.com> <4962560C.1030707@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4962580F.1070706@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Mine's in the living room, across from the couch. One thing about >> this set, is it's easy to see who's putting out a crappy signal. ;-) >> >> While I haven't had an HDTV picture on it yet (real soon now), last >> night I watched a wide screen DVD, which used a mode of 480P that >> displays 16:9 pictures. Even at that lower resolution, it was quite >> impressive. >> >> BTW, this is the first TV I've ever had, that came with an RS-232 >> serial port! > > If I had a living room, I might be keen. In a basement apartment though, > so meh, it will have to wait. > > BTW, what the heck is the serial port for?! You can actually use it as a remote control, though I don`t know what you`d use to do that. I haven`t looked into it fully, but there`s apparently a standard wired method for linking various multimedia components, so that one can control another. Perhaps it has something to do with that. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 18:57:53 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:57:53 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105185320.GA29855-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901051057s201c8e14v86bdc077ba3ce899@mail.gmail.com> On 05/01/2009, Neil Watson wrote: > I have a 42" in the living room. This one would be purely for > computing. > I have the following monitor: Samsung 245T: 24 inches of movie & gaming goodness at 1920x1200.... -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 19:00:11 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:00:11 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105185320.GA29855-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:50:36PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> When we want to watch a movie, we watch on my boyfriend's LCD which is >> a 22" (I think) at ~1680x1024. We have our couch about 2 meters back >> and we've never had a complaint watching anything on it. > > I have a 42" in the living room. This one would be purely for > computing. > When I was a kid, we had a 21" TV, which was about the biggest you could get back in those days. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 19:01:22 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:01:22 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105135505.6a9c1ff6-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> <49623D3D.8000409@alteeve.com> <20090105124928.28971a80@teksavvy.com> <49624B8F.7060703@alteeve.com> <49624F26.6090906@telly.org> <496251DC.2040706@rogers.com> <20090105135505.6a9c1ff6@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <49625902.4020204@rogers.com> JoeHill wrote: > James Knott wrote: > >> Evan Leibovitch wrote: >>> Madison Kelly wrote: >>>> Huh, have you tried WoW on Wine? I'll give this a shot either way. >>>> Last I played with Wine was some time ago and I was quite unimpressed. >>>> I guess it has improved much since then. >>> Codeweavers, which makes the "crossover" suite of commercially-supported >>> Wine implementations, has a gamers' version. I notice that both both WoW >>> and EvE are explicitly supported, though with a few bugs. And the $40 >>> one-time price would be less expensive than the Cedega subscription. >>> They make a free trial available you you can test the suitability out >>> for yourself. >> FWIW, they were handing out free Crossover licenses for one day, a >> couple of months back. I got one, though I haven't used it yet. > > I tried it with a couple of things that worked well under Wine: Spore and > Halflife. Neither worked at all with Crossover. > Curious. I thought it was based on Wine and they often passed things back to it. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 19:04:09 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:04:09 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <496258BB.2080706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:00:11PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > When I was a kid, we had a 21" TV, which was about the biggest you > could get back in those days. If tell kids that today they'll never believe you. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 19:23:29 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:23:29 -0500 Subject: Compatible USB wireless In-Reply-To: <7ac602420901051018x14292a70k5445e83b6b908c81-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <496249F7.5080802@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901051007o1ff5a1e7s8ebb45614c935072@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420901051018x14292a70k5445e83b6b908c81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901051123o1c64fd3awf30958fbfaaa7fbd@mail.gmail.com> Since I haven't had much luck getting the built-in card to work consistently it's hard for me to say as I've gone almost exclusively with the USB stick. The laptop seems to be good for a few 1.5-2h off battery with the USB stick though (haven't really tried longer). As N drivers become more prevalent it might be possible to find a decent PCMCIA card, which might be a better choice than USB. Actually, newer laptops may also have an "expresscard" slot which according to wikipedia actually use less power and are faster than either PCMCIA/USB. Mine has one but I haven't got any cards to test on that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExpressCard - TJA On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> So I grabbed a TP-Link/RaLink wireless USB adaptor and all has been >> well for surfing. It's slightly bigger than a USB memory stick, but >> still fairly low-profile while getting a decent signal. >> I'll check what the exact model is when I get home, but there's a >> native kernel driver that works nicely. > > Can you compare battery consumption between an onboard wifi card vs. a > USB stick? I have a couple of machines that work with "traditional" > 802.11g cards, but I'd like to upgrade to 802.11n one day and a USB > adapter sounds pretty convenient. > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 19:31:19 2009 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:31:19 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901051009w4ebba4e8s9ea4fd24cf39b78a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901050857v6949991dp85d50cb044e44fc6@mail.gmail.com> <20090105172530.GM29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0901051009w4ebba4e8s9ea4fd24cf39b78a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The documentation for the latest cores is out (R600 and R700?). That bodes well for future support for late model cards. There has been no release of documentation for earlier model cores, quite possibly because it doesn't really exist in a usable form and would cost a fortune to create (I have seen and used the ATI IRIS documents for the R200 and R250. They suck. I suspect ATI always relied on easy access to hardware designers/engineers for their device driver writers.) If you own an old ATI card, such as a 9200, there may well never be good drivers. On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 11:57:12AM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: >>> Actually I had an overall question/theory about this. Can anyone >>> confirm or correct me on this... >>> >>> >>> I believe that one of the issues with Cedega VS windows is that NVidia >>> cards have better OpenGL support, and Cedega translates the applicable >>> DirectX calls to the appropriate OpenGL ones (which in the case of ATI >>> might not work as well if the GL support is lacking)? Since ATI has >>> been bought out by AMD their drivers have (IMHO) improved greatly >>> though, and according to slashdot they've open-sourced their drivers >>> as well, so hopefully things will be even better in the future >>> >>> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/30/0337204 >> >> They might have improved but they still aren't great. >> >> Having installed a few ATI video cards at work recently I was rather >> surprised to find that: >> >> The fglrx driver crashes (and takes the machine with it) if you don't >> explicitly tell it to use 24bit colour in the xorg.conf file. >> Apparently by default it wants to use 8bit, and it also happens to not >> support 8bit (says so in the crash log), and rather than exiting with >> that message, it crashes. >> >> Strangely every other driver I have ever used with xorg defaults to >> 24bit colour, and none of them crash either. They may fail to run and >> exit with an error, but they don't crash. >> >> So until the day there are full open specs for the ATI cards and someone >> other than ati writes a driver from scratch, I just wouldn't bother. >> Clearly ATI still can't write drivers. >> > > Well, according to the slashdot article I linked there are open specs > now, so hopefully good Open-Source drivers will follow. > > As for the crashing, what card was it, and did you try updating your > xorg.conf with the "aticonfig" command? > > > >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (647) 302-0942 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 21:33:22 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:33:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line Message-ID: Hi! I am currently looking at the options of getting broadband (ADSL level) internet connection at home without having active phone line. The only methods I can see is using dry loop DSL or Cable Internet. Is there any other way? For Cable Internet, it seems the choice is only Rogers, right? While apparently much better than Bell, this still a disadvantage of this option. >From cost point of view - which is quite important for me right now - it seems that Rogers option can have a slight advantage: most likely no setup fee, compare to TekSavvy $39.98 activation + service fee. And if I agree to 1 year contract with Rogers, apparently the monthly cost for Express can be as low as $35 per month, compare to $39.05 TekSavvy asked for High Speed Premium DSL + Band B rate. Any other thought? While at it, I has some related questions which you may have the answers: - How bad is the latency of TekSavvy's Unlimited DSL? Will it apparent if you ssh in and run a full screen console program (such as pine, links, emacs, vim, etc.)? - Anybody have experience with CIK telecom ? They offer dry DSL, unlimited, for $479.88 per year, prepaid. Thanks! -- (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ** Felix dies Nativitatis! http://advent2008.com/ Happy New Year! ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 21:52:30 2009 From: demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave M. Sullivan) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:52:30 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> I have TekSavvy, and I'm paying $41 a month flat for dry loop DSL. That's with their Premium ($29.95/mo) plan. And it's only $19.95 installation fee. I'm pretty sure these are your only options for broadband Internet access. Hope this helps! On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 4:33 PM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Hi! > > I am currently looking at the options of getting broadband (ADSL level) > internet connection at home without having active phone line. > > The only methods I can see is using dry loop DSL or Cable Internet. Is there > any other way? > > For Cable Internet, it seems the choice is only Rogers, right? While > apparently much better than Bell, this still a disadvantage of this option. > > From cost point of view - which is quite important for me right now - it > seems that Rogers option can have a slight advantage: most likely no setup > fee, compare to TekSavvy $39.98 activation + service fee. And if I agree to > 1 year contract with Rogers, apparently the monthly cost for Express can be > as low as $35 per month, compare to $39.05 TekSavvy asked for High Speed > Premium DSL + Band B rate. > > Any other thought? > > While at it, I has some related questions which you may have the answers: > > - How bad is the latency of TekSavvy's Unlimited DSL? Will it apparent if > you ssh in and run a full screen console program (such as pine, links, > emacs, vim, etc.)? > > - Anybody have experience with CIK telecom ? They > offer dry DSL, unlimited, for $479.88 per year, prepaid. > > Thanks! > > -- > (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo > _____ _____ _____ _____ > /____ /____/ /____/ /____ > _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ > > ** Felix dies Nativitatis! http://advent2008.com/ Happy New Year! ** > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 21:54:06 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:54:06 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a97ef0901051354n72a62431k9a1b45ecd5f31f40@mail.gmail.com> Never had a problem with the service of Teksavvy itself, but you're going to be limited by the service of Bell's lines. I live in North York near Fairview Mall, and due to Bell overextending their lines and just generally sucking, I can't get much better than 1.5/0.6 (on a 5down/1.5up account). You might want to check if anyone else locally has DSL internet service and find out if it gets decent speeds, or even ask Teksavvy if they've got customers in the area. In places with decent lines, the service is great, but the last-mile belongs to Bell and it tends to be a big ??? in terms of quality. - TJA On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 4:33 PM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Hi! > > I am currently looking at the options of getting broadband (ADSL level) > internet connection at home without having active phone line. > > The only methods I can see is using dry loop DSL or Cable Internet. Is there > any other way? > > For Cable Internet, it seems the choice is only Rogers, right? While > apparently much better than Bell, this still a disadvantage of this option. > > From cost point of view - which is quite important for me right now - it > seems that Rogers option can have a slight advantage: most likely no setup > fee, compare to TekSavvy $39.98 activation + service fee. And if I agree to > 1 year contract with Rogers, apparently the monthly cost for Express can be > as low as $35 per month, compare to $39.05 TekSavvy asked for High Speed > Premium DSL + Band B rate. > > Any other thought? > > While at it, I has some related questions which you may have the answers: > > - How bad is the latency of TekSavvy's Unlimited DSL? Will it apparent if > you ssh in and run a full screen console program (such as pine, links, > emacs, vim, etc.)? > > - Anybody have experience with CIK telecom ? They > offer dry DSL, unlimited, for $479.88 per year, prepaid. > > Thanks! > > -- > (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo > _____ _____ _____ _____ > /____ /____/ /____/ /____ > _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ > > ** Felix dies Nativitatis! http://advent2008.com/ Happy New Year! ** > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 21:56:59 2009 From: demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave M. Sullivan) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:56:59 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901051354n72a62431k9a1b45ecd5f31f40-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901051354n72a62431k9a1b45ecd5f31f40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4f9268790901051356i312eb3bdi11f570bf88814c43@mail.gmail.com> I get about 3.0m/800k on a 5down/1.5up account in West Scarborough (St. Clair and Victoria Park) On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Never had a problem with the service of Teksavvy itself, but you're > going to be limited by the service of Bell's lines. > I live in North York near Fairview Mall, and due to Bell overextending > their lines and just generally sucking, I can't get much better than > 1.5/0.6 (on a 5down/1.5up account). > You might want to check if anyone else locally has DSL internet > service and find out if it gets decent speeds, or even ask Teksavvy if > they've got customers in the area. > In places with decent lines, the service is great, but the last-mile > belongs to Bell and it tends to be a big ??? in terms of quality. > > > - TJA > > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 4:33 PM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo > wrote: >> Hi! >> >> I am currently looking at the options of getting broadband (ADSL level) >> internet connection at home without having active phone line. >> >> The only methods I can see is using dry loop DSL or Cable Internet. Is there >> any other way? >> >> For Cable Internet, it seems the choice is only Rogers, right? While >> apparently much better than Bell, this still a disadvantage of this option. >> >> From cost point of view - which is quite important for me right now - it >> seems that Rogers option can have a slight advantage: most likely no setup >> fee, compare to TekSavvy $39.98 activation + service fee. And if I agree to >> 1 year contract with Rogers, apparently the monthly cost for Express can be >> as low as $35 per month, compare to $39.05 TekSavvy asked for High Speed >> Premium DSL + Band B rate. >> >> Any other thought? >> >> While at it, I has some related questions which you may have the answers: >> >> - How bad is the latency of TekSavvy's Unlimited DSL? Will it apparent if >> you ssh in and run a full screen console program (such as pine, links, >> emacs, vim, etc.)? >> >> - Anybody have experience with CIK telecom ? They >> offer dry DSL, unlimited, for $479.88 per year, prepaid. >> >> Thanks! >> >> -- >> (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo >> _____ _____ _____ _____ >> /____ /____/ /____/ /____ >> _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ >> >> ** Felix dies Nativitatis! http://advent2008.com/ Happy New Year! ** >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (647) 302-0942 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 22:44:55 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:44:55 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4f9268790901051356i312eb3bdi11f570bf88814c43-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901051354n72a62431k9a1b45ecd5f31f40@mail.gmail.com> <4f9268790901051356i312eb3bdi11f570bf88814c43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49628D67.2050401@rogers.com> I get about 10 Mb down and 1 Mb up on Rogers. Dave M. Sullivan wrote: > I get about 3.0m/800k on a 5down/1.5up account in West Scarborough > (St. Clair and Victoria Park) > > > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> Never had a problem with the service of Teksavvy itself, but you're >> going to be limited by the service of Bell's lines. >> I live in North York near Fairview Mall, and due to Bell overextending >> their lines and just generally sucking, I can't get much better than >> 1.5/0.6 (on a 5down/1.5up account). >> You might want to check if anyone else locally has DSL internet >> service and find out if it gets decent speeds, or even ask Teksavvy if >> they've got customers in the area. >> In places with decent lines, the service is great, but the last-mile >> belongs to Bell and it tends to be a big ??? in terms of quality. >> >> >> - TJA >> >> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 4:33 PM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo >> wrote: >> >>> Hi! >>> >>> I am currently looking at the options of getting broadband (ADSL level) >>> internet connection at home without having active phone line. >>> >>> The only methods I can see is using dry loop DSL or Cable Internet. Is there >>> any other way? >>> >>> For Cable Internet, it seems the choice is only Rogers, right? While >>> apparently much better than Bell, this still a disadvantage of this option. >>> >>> From cost point of view - which is quite important for me right now - it >>> seems that Rogers option can have a slight advantage: most likely no setup >>> fee, compare to TekSavvy $39.98 activation + service fee. And if I agree to >>> 1 year contract with Rogers, apparently the monthly cost for Express can be >>> as low as $35 per month, compare to $39.05 TekSavvy asked for High Speed >>> Premium DSL + Band B rate. >>> >>> Any other thought? >>> >>> While at it, I has some related questions which you may have the answers: >>> >>> - How bad is the latency of TekSavvy's Unlimited DSL? Will it apparent if >>> you ssh in and run a full screen console program (such as pine, links, >>> emacs, vim, etc.)? >>> >>> - Anybody have experience with CIK telecom ? They >>> offer dry DSL, unlimited, for $479.88 per year, prepaid. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> -- >>> (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo >>> _____ _____ _____ _____ >>> /____ /____/ /____/ /____ >>> _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ >>> >>> ** Felix dies Nativitatis! http://advent2008.com/ Happy New Year! ** >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Tyler Aviss >> Systems Support >> LPIC/LPIC-2 >> (647) 302-0942 >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > > > > -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 23:33:11 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:33:11 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <496249B6.6060503-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090105233311.GS29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 12:56:06PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > We're looking at getting a shared monitor specifically for the Wii and > PS2. If/when we do, we'd get one with component as well. At the moment > though, my monitor is a generic DVI. I have a Dell 2407WFP at home, and a 2408WFP at work. The 2408 adds displayport, HDMI, and a second DVI connector to what the 2407 had. That makes displayport, hdmi, dual dvi, vga, svideo, composite and component. Nice deal when it goes on sale (this one was $479 when I got it). Of course sound is a seperate issue to solve. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 23:34:27 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:34:27 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49624EA8.1060400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090105233427.GT29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:17:12PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > FWIW, I recently bought a 42" HDTV that can be used as a computer > monitor at up to 1600 x 1200. So stretched and somewhat blurred. Why can't it do 1920x1080 which would be the real resolution? If I can run a monitur at 1920x1200, there is no reason 1920x1080 should be hard to do. hdmi to dvi cables are quite cheap, and should make it work right. vga is to be avoided. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 23:36:52 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:36:52 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49625771.5010603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <49625771.5010603@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090105233652.GU29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:54:41PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > As a TV it`s very practical. It would also be good for making > presentations. On the other hand it`s a bit big for a computer monitor, > though it may be useful for CAD work. I wonder if someone would buy me one of these for a TV: http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Projectors/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&cs=cadhs1&sku=224-1655 They had it on sale last month for a day (on a sunday) for $2499. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 23:38:50 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:38:50 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901051009h78f3468ct4a6274a88604ed6f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <20090105173624.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49624B05.5080400@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901051009h78f3468ct4a6274a88604ed6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090105233850.GV29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:09:12PM -0500, Michael Lauzon wrote: > We had some good games on Linux because of Loki, however we do know > how that turned out...supposedly the Unreal games could be played on > Linux natively; I heard that Microsoft is buying -- bought? -- Epic > but I cannot find any evidence to that regard because UT3 was supposed > to be on Linux as well. I think the problem was that not many people knew about loki, and they certainly weren't on retail shelves. They went out of business. We do have loki to thank for libsdl, which is a wonderful cross platform library of interfaces for everything gaming needs. I still play neverwinter nights on my linux system, and that uses SDL in its port as well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 23:42:43 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:42:43 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105132135.31da26aa-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> <49623D3D.8000409@alteeve.com> <20090105124928.28971a80@teksavvy.com> <49624B8F.7060703@alteeve.com> <20090105132135.31da26aa@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090105234243.GW29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:21:35PM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > Last time I tried WoW under Wine it was perfect, I had no issues at all. > > Installing was just like 'apt-get build-dep wine, configure, make, make > install'. That's it. Although on mine I did 'configure --prefix=/usr'. You do realize that you are asking for trouble when you do that. Debian packing rules specificly state dpkg owns /usr, except /usr/local which it will never touch. Use /usr/local for what it was meant for. So if dpkg breaks wine on you, it is _your_ fault, not dpkg's. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 23:44:12 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:44:12 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901051009w4ebba4e8s9ea4fd24cf39b78a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901050857v6949991dp85d50cb044e44fc6@mail.gmail.com> <20090105172530.GM29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0901051009w4ebba4e8s9ea4fd24cf39b78a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090105234412.GX29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:09:40PM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Well, according to the slashdot article I linked there are open specs > now, so hopefully good Open-Source drivers will follow. Until I see a working 3D driver for an ati card, I don't believe the specs to be complete or accurate. > As for the crashing, what card was it, and did you try updating your > xorg.conf with the "aticonfig" command? Oh we tried lots of things. It was a firegl v3350. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 23:45:31 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:45:31 -0500 Subject: Wireless Office In-Reply-To: <4962567E.5010407-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49593137.9060105@alteeve.com> <495937DB.2090307@gmail.com> <4959493D.1020206@rogers.com> <20090105165445.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49624380.2090101@rogers.com> <20090105174654.GR29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4962567E.5010407@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090105234531.GY29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:50:38PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > It also uses CCMP, instead of TKIP for improved security. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCMP WPA2 allows TKIP still, so WPA2 does not mean better security. It could, but it doesn't have to. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 23:50:25 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:50:25 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090105235025.GZ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 04:33:22PM -0500, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > I am currently looking at the options of getting broadband (ADSL > level) internet connection at home without having active phone > line. > > The only methods I can see is using dry loop DSL or Cable > Internet. Is there any other way? Rogers mobile internet is an option. Some parts of toronto can have internet access via hydro's wifi network. Some satelite providers might still exist. Some rural areas have special directional wifi services as well. > For Cable Internet, it seems the choice is only Rogers, right? > While apparently much better than Bell, this still a > disadvantage of this option. 3web and a few others can provide service over rogers cable in some areas, although rogers throtling still applies (just as bell throthling still applies to ADSL). > From cost point of view - which is quite important for me right > now - it seems that Rogers option can have a slight advantage: > most likely no setup fee, compare to TekSavvy $39.98 activation > + service fee. And if I agree to 1 year contract with Rogers, > apparently the monthly cost for Express can be as low as $35 per > month, compare to $39.05 TekSavvy asked for High Speed Premium > DSL + Band B rate. Well rogers cable can be very fast (downstream). Of course there is the dynamic IP (although it rarely changes) and the ban on running servers and such, which teksavvy doesn't have. And you can get blocks of static IPs on teksavvy. > Any other thought? > > While at it, I has some related questions which you may have the > answers: > > - How bad is the latency of TekSavvy's Unlimited DSL? Will it > apparent if you ssh in and run a full screen console program > (such as pine, links, emacs, vim, etc.)? Ehm, I doubt it. 80ms is a couple of screen refreshes on your monitor. > - Anybody have experience with CIK telecom > ? They offer dry DSL, unlimited, for > $479.88 per year, prepaid. I thought dry DSL prices varies by area depending on what bell charged, so a fixed price wasn't possible. Or is that the cost on top of the dry line fee? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 23:52:18 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:52:18 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105233850.GV29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <20090105173624.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49624B05.5080400@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901051009h78f3468ct4a6274a88604ed6f@mail.gmail.com> <20090105233850.GV29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901051552m71cdd1abmade45d970e3ee0b0@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 18:38, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I think the problem was that not many people knew about loki, and they > certainly weren't on retail shelves. They went out of business. > > We do have loki to thank for libsdl, which is a wonderful cross platform > library of interfaces for everything gaming needs. > > I still play neverwinter nights on my linux system, and that uses SDL in > its port as well. Not on retail shelves, I bought some of Loki's games at EB Games, and a few other places. 'Going out of business' is putting it nicely...seeing as how the bigwig of the company seems to have embezzled money from his own company. SDL is cool, I do wish more companies would look into using it.... -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 23:53:02 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:53:02 -0500 Subject: Compatible USB wireless In-Reply-To: <49625163.5030302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <496249F7.5080802@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901051007o1ff5a1e7s8ebb45614c935072@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420901051018x14292a70k5445e83b6b908c81@mail.gmail.com> <49625163.5030302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090105235302.GA29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:28:51PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > In that situation, I'd seriously consider replacing the internal WiFi > NIC, as you'll then be able to use the built in antenna. I did that > with my ThinkPad. The original NIC in it would only do 802.11b and it > did not work well with Linux WiFi utilities, though I could establish > connections. I bought an Intel card and it worked well, though the swap > cost me the telephone modem, which was built into the old card. Some laptops (compaq/hp for example) won't boot if you swap out the wifi module. 802.11n requires 3 antennas I believe, and 802.1b/g cards only have two. So either way, no go I suspect. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 5 23:55:27 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:55:27 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901051552m71cdd1abmade45d970e3ee0b0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49621993.6000401@rogers.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <20090105173624.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49624B05.5080400@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901051009h78f3468ct4a6274a88604ed6f@mail.gmail.com> <20090105233850.GV29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7c50d3570901051552m71cdd1abmade45d970e3ee0b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090105235527.GB29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 06:52:18PM -0500, Michael Lauzon wrote: > Not on retail shelves, I bought some of Loki's games at EB Games, and > a few other places. 'Going out of business' is putting it > nicely...seeing as how the bigwig of the company seems to have > embezzled money from his own company. > > SDL is cool, I do wish more companies would look into using it.... If you say "screw directx" and use SDL instead with openAL and openGL, then you get to compile essentially the same code for linux, OS X and windows, and you get to cover the majority of machines out there. Adding solaris and BSD isn't much more work either. If you use directx, you get only one platform. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 00:03:33 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:03:33 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105235527.GB29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49621530.4020509@alteeve.com> <49622B89.5070500@telly.org> <49623813.50901@alteeve.com> <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <20090105173624.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49624B05.5080400@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901051009h78f3468ct4a6274a88604ed6f@mail.gmail.com> <20090105233850.GV29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7c50d3570901051552m71cdd1abmade45d970e3ee0b0@mail.gmail.com> <20090105235527.GB29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901051603r58d4ff81ke2bcb50b53d31e2@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 18:55, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > If you say "screw directx" and use SDL instead with openAL and openGL, > then you get to compile essentially the same code for linux, OS X and > windows, and you get to cover the majority of machines out there. > Adding solaris and BSD isn't much more work either. > > If you use directx, you get only one platform. > I am just an end user, no programming experience except BASIC & LOGO back in the 80s and have no idea how to program now or since then. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 00:27:09 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 19:27:09 -0500 Subject: Wireless Office In-Reply-To: <20090105234531.GY29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49593137.9060105@alteeve.com> <495937DB.2090307@gmail.com> <4959493D.1020206@rogers.com> <20090105165445.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49624380.2090101@rogers.com> <20090105174654.GR29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4962567E.5010407@rogers.com> <20090105234531.GY29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4962A55D.4000403@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:50:38PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > >> It also uses CCMP, instead of TKIP for improved security. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCMP >> > > WPA2 allows TKIP still, so WPA2 does not mean better security. It > could, but it doesn't have to. > > As always, security is what you configure for. I have CCMP enabled, which is why I see "RSN" on the WiFi connection in Knetworkmanger. I still see some with WEP enabled and even some who haven't bothered to change the default settings their WiFi box came with. Even if you mangaged to break my WiFi, you'd still be up against my firewall. I suspect anyone looking for free WiFi access will pass me by for one of my dumber neighbours. Short of setting up a RADIUS server, what would you recommend I do to improve my WiFi security? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 00:29:11 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 19:29:11 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <20090105235025.GZ29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105235025.GZ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4962A5D7.10707@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well rogers cable can be very fast (downstream). Of course there is the > dynamic IP (although it rarely changes) and the ban on running servers > and such, which teksavvy doesn't have. And you can get blocks of static > While Rogers uses DHCP, the host name is consistent, as it's based on your NIC and cable modem MAC addresses. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 06:00:50 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 01:00:50 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105234243.GW29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49622994.4010806@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050757k70b616dah89fcbd4b34261f74@mail.gmail.com> <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> <49623D3D.8000409@alteeve.com> <20090105124928.28971a80@teksavvy.com> <49624B8F.7060703@alteeve.com> <20090105132135.31da26aa@teksavvy.com> <20090105234243.GW29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090106010050.7f52bb74@teksavvy.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 01:21:35PM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > > Last time I tried WoW under Wine it was perfect, I had no issues at all. > > > > Installing was just like 'apt-get build-dep wine, configure, make, make > > install'. That's it. Although on mine I did 'configure --prefix=/usr'. > > You do realize that you are asking for trouble when you do that. Debian > packing rules specificly state dpkg owns /usr, except /usr/local which > it will never touch. Use /usr/local for what it was meant for. > > So if dpkg breaks wine on you, it is _your_ fault, not dpkg's. I was going to say 'yeah, yeah', but then I was reading about installing Picasa for Linux, and how it also installs its own Wine package, which would of course go in /usr and completely screw my current install... -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 13:55:48 2009 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:55:48 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <078301c97006$7b6cc390$72464ab0$@com> I also endorse teksavy. If you go with either bell or rogers, prepare for some packet filtering. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Dave M. Sullivan Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 4:53 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: Internet at home without active phone line I have TekSavvy, and I'm paying $41 a month flat for dry loop DSL. That's with their Premium ($29.95/mo) plan. And it's only $19.95 installation fee. I'm pretty sure these are your only options for broadband Internet access. Hope this helps! On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 4:33 PM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Hi! > > I am currently looking at the options of getting broadband (ADSL level) > internet connection at home without having active phone line. > > The only methods I can see is using dry loop DSL or Cable Internet. Is there > any other way? > > For Cable Internet, it seems the choice is only Rogers, right? While > apparently much better than Bell, this still a disadvantage of this option. > > From cost point of view - which is quite important for me right now - it > seems that Rogers option can have a slight advantage: most likely no setup > fee, compare to TekSavvy $39.98 activation + service fee. And if I agree to > 1 year contract with Rogers, apparently the monthly cost for Express can be > as low as $35 per month, compare to $39.05 TekSavvy asked for High Speed > Premium DSL + Band B rate. > > Any other thought? > > While at it, I has some related questions which you may have the answers: > > - How bad is the latency of TekSavvy's Unlimited DSL? Will it apparent if > you ssh in and run a full screen console program (such as pine, links, > emacs, vim, etc.)? > > - Anybody have experience with CIK telecom ? They > offer dry DSL, unlimited, for $479.88 per year, prepaid. > > Thanks! > > -- > (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo > _____ _____ _____ _____ > /____ /____/ /____/ /____ > _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ > > ** Felix dies Nativitatis! http://advent2008.com/ Happy New Year! ** > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 15:23:23 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:23:23 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090105190409.GA30185-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4962392D.7090606@telly.org> <49623C27.7020106@alteeve.com> <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> Neil Watson wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 02:00:11PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > > When I was a kid, we had a 21" TV, which was about the biggest you > > could get back in those days. > > If tell kids that today they'll never believe you. Oh yes they will. I remember _black and white_ TV. Vietnam War on black and white, actually. One of the first phrases I remember is 'body count'. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 15:40:11 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:40:11 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090106010050.7f52bb74-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <496236DF.2040307@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050840o49782c10k7c7cd5d3b5ddf697@mail.gmail.com> <496238CB.10800@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901050850g42ce15dfjc23565c2eed030a2@mail.gmail.com> <49623D3D.8000409@alteeve.com> <20090105124928.28971a80@teksavvy.com> <49624B8F.7060703@alteeve.com> <20090105132135.31da26aa@teksavvy.com> <20090105234243.GW29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090106010050.7f52bb74@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090106154011.GC29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 01:00:50AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > I was going to say 'yeah, yeah', but then I was reading about installing Picasa > for Linux, and how it also installs its own Wine package, which would of course > go in /usr and completely screw my current install... Well the picasa package for debian actually installs in /opt and uses /opt/picasa/wine for its own private copy of wine. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 15:41:26 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:41:26 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090106102323.39b5d445-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 10:23:23AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > Oh yes they will. I remember _black and white_ TV. Vietnam War on black and > white, actually. One of the first phrases I remember is 'body count'. I remember having black and white TV at home, with all 1 channels to choose from (not much need for a remote then and no arguing over what to watch). And I am only 33. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 15:42:28 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:42:28 -0500 Subject: Wireless Office In-Reply-To: <4962A55D.4000403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49593137.9060105@alteeve.com> <495937DB.2090307@gmail.com> <4959493D.1020206@rogers.com> <20090105165445.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49624380.2090101@rogers.com> <20090105174654.GR29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4962567E.5010407@rogers.com> <20090105234531.GY29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4962A55D.4000403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090106154228.GE29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 07:27:09PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > As always, security is what you configure for. I have CCMP enabled, > which is why I see "RSN" on the WiFi connection in Knetworkmanger. I > still see some with WEP enabled and even some who haven't bothered to > change the default settings their WiFi box came with. Even if you > mangaged to break my WiFi, you'd still be up against my firewall. I > suspect anyone looking for free WiFi access will pass me by for one of > my dumber neighbours. Short of setting up a RADIUS server, what would > you recommend I do to improve my WiFi security? I think you have it pretty much covered. And yes, unless someone specifically wants your information, they will probably pick an easier target. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 15:43:20 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:43:20 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <078301c97006$7b6cc390$72464ab0$@com> References: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> <078301c97006$7b6cc390$72464ab0$@com> Message-ID: <20090106154320.GF29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 08:55:48AM -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > I also endorse teksavy. > If you go with either bell or rogers, prepare for some packet filtering. Unfortunately you still get throtling even with teksavvy since Bell still butchers the line between you and teksavvy. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 15:45:24 2009 From: demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave M. Sullivan) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:45:24 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <20090106154320.GF29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> <078301c97006$7b6cc390$72464ab0$@com> <20090106154320.GF29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4f9268790901060745j29bbfb3vc2ec51a29912bf41@mail.gmail.com> The only way to get around throttling is to go with Primus (I think) and as far as I know their service coverage is limited, because they don't have equipment in all of Bell's COs. On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 08:55:48AM -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> I also endorse teksavy. >> If you go with either bell or rogers, prepare for some packet filtering. > > Unfortunately you still get throtling even with teksavvy since Bell > still butchers the line between you and teksavvy. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 16:09:15 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:09:15 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090106154126.GD29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 10:23:23AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: >> Oh yes they will. I remember _black and white_ TV. Vietnam War on black and >> white, actually. One of the first phrases I remember is 'body count'. > > I remember having black and white TV at home, with all 1 channels to > choose from (not much need for a remote then and no arguing over what to > watch). And I am only 33. > We (living in Oakville) had 5 channels to choose from. Then, when CFTO started, we had 6! -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 16:15:03 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:15:03 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4f9268790901060745j29bbfb3vc2ec51a29912bf41-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> <078301c97006$7b6cc390$72464ab0$@com> <20090106154320.GF29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4f9268790901060745j29bbfb3vc2ec51a29912bf41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49638387.6000204@rogers.com> Rogers (formerly Sprint) also has ADSL. I was involved in setting up their ADSL, in Bell's COs. They had their own DS3s to the DSLAM, so I doubt Bell would be throttling them. Dave M. Sullivan wrote: > The only way to get around throttling is to go with Primus (I think) > and as far as I know their service coverage is limited, because they > don't have equipment in all of Bell's COs. > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 08:55:48AM -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >>> I also endorse teksavy. >>> If you go with either bell or rogers, prepare for some packet filtering. >> Unfortunately you still get throtling even with teksavvy since Bell >> still butchers the line between you and teksavvy. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 16:31:52 2009 From: demsullivan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave M. Sullivan) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:31:52 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <49638387.6000204-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> <078301c97006$7b6cc390$72464ab0$@com> <20090106154320.GF29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4f9268790901060745j29bbfb3vc2ec51a29912bf41@mail.gmail.com> <49638387.6000204@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4f9268790901060831t6468b1bdv1c4d574e001fd22f@mail.gmail.com> I wasn't aware that Rogers offered ADSL... I've never seen it mentioned on their website. Though, they don't specify that its cable either. It just says "Rogers Hi-Speed Internet Service". On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:15 AM, James Knott wrote: > Rogers (formerly Sprint) also has ADSL. I was involved in setting up their > ADSL, in Bell's COs. They had their own DS3s to the DSLAM, so I doubt Bell > would be throttling them. > > > Dave M. Sullivan wrote: >> >> The only way to get around throttling is to go with Primus (I think) >> and as far as I know their service coverage is limited, because they >> don't have equipment in all of Bell's COs. >> >> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Lennart Sorensen >> wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 08:55:48AM -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >>>> >>>> I also endorse teksavy. >>>> If you go with either bell or rogers, prepare for some packet filtering. >>> >>> Unfortunately you still get throtling even with teksavvy since Bell >>> still butchers the line between you and teksavvy. >>> >>> -- >>> Len Sorensen >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dave Sullivan dave-VvnUh7fPG/k7v45Mz1C67QC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org 647-235-0328 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 16:32:23 2009 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:32:23 -0500 Subject: Rdesktop problem. Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I am trying to run rdesktop connecting via a pptp VPN to my work XP box. Locally (on the work LAN), everything is fine and I get the XP login then desktop on my debian etch laptop. When I try from home, I get a black window, no login. I tried adjusting the MTU, to no effect. I can't find anything useful on the wwweb - does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks, Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 16:45:32 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:45:32 -0500 Subject: Rdesktop problem. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49638AAC.4020107@tmis.ca> How do PPTP packets arriving at your work's public firewall know to send them to your work XP box? Are you port forwarding port 1723 TCP/UDP? I am not sure if PPTP is any more secure than RDP. On work's public firewall, how about just portforwarding RDP 3389 to your XP box at work. That will work, but RDP is not secured. /teddy colin davidson wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I am trying to run rdesktop connecting via a pptp VPN to my work XP > box. Locally (on the work LAN), everything is fine and I get the XP > login then desktop on my debian etch laptop. When I try from home, I > get a black window, no login. I tried adjusting the MTU, to no effect. > I can't find anything useful on the wwweb - does anyone have any > suggestions? > > Thanks, Colin > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 16:49:56 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:49:56 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <4963822B.80001-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49638BB4.7080909@alteeve.com> James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 10:23:23AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: >>> Oh yes they will. I remember _black and white_ TV. Vietnam War on >>> black and >>> white, actually. One of the first phrases I remember is 'body count'. >> >> I remember having black and white TV at home, with all 1 channels to >> choose from (not much need for a remote then and no arguing over what to >> watch). And I am only 33. >> > > We (living in Oakville) had 5 channels to choose from. Then, when CFTO > started, we had 6! > Pffft, I used to play Atari 2600 on my friend's 14" black and white TV. Even in the house we only had three channels (in rural New Brunswick), CBC English, CBC French and CTV. One day Global created a new channel, MITV (Maritime Independent (??) TV) and 'lo, it was good! Playing the "I am old" game is fun! :P Madi, who goes back to plucking out gray hairs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 17:10:44 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:10:44 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <49638BB4.7080909-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <49638BB4.7080909@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090106121044.7ef2c0c2@teksavvy.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > James Knott wrote: > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 10:23:23AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: > >>> Oh yes they will. I remember _black and white_ TV. Vietnam War on > >>> black and > >>> white, actually. One of the first phrases I remember is 'body count'. > >> > >> I remember having black and white TV at home, with all 1 channels to > >> choose from (not much need for a remote then and no arguing over what to > >> watch). And I am only 33. > >> > > > > We (living in Oakville) had 5 channels to choose from. Then, when CFTO > > started, we had 6! > > > > Pffft, I used to play Atari 2600 on my friend's 14" black and white TV. Our first video game system was the Atari Pong console, circa 1976 I think. Anyone remember Intellivision? Now there was a cool system. Voice synthesizer with B-17 Bomber totally rocked. 'Bandits! 12 O'Clock!' > Even in the house we only had three channels (in rural New Brunswick), > CBC English, CBC French and CTV. One day Global created a new channel, > MITV (Maritime Independent (??) TV) and 'lo, it was good! > > Playing the "I am old" game is fun! :P Gets less fun after 40...but then what else is there to do at that point? ;) > Madi, who goes back to plucking out gray hairs. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 17:13:03 2009 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:13:03 -0500 Subject: Rdesktop problem. In-Reply-To: <49638AAC.4020107-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <49638AAC.4020107@tmis.ca> Message-ID: Hi Teddy, I don't know the ins and outs of how PPTP VPNs work. Don't think I want to - MS VPNs are known to be somewhat insecure. However, the packet forwarding works for "ping" packets, so I don't see why it wouldn't for RDP packets, at least as far as IP addresses go. Getting the right port is another matter, maybe, but surely any VPN would handle that, wouldn't it? As for why I use PPTP, it's because the company provides that and only that. If I want to VPN in, that's what I have to use. Changing firewall permissions ain't going to happen. I don't have control or sufficient influence. So to run my desktop remotely I have to tunnel through PPTP. Thanks, Colin On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:45 AM, teddymills wrote: > How do PPTP packets arriving at your work's public firewall know to send > them to your work XP box? > Are you port forwarding port 1723 TCP/UDP? > I am not sure if PPTP is any more secure than RDP. > > On work's public firewall, how about just portforwarding RDP 3389 to your XP > box at work. > That will work, but RDP is not secured. > > /teddy > > colin davidson wrote: >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I am trying to run rdesktop connecting via a pptp VPN to my work XP >> box. Locally (on the work LAN), everything is fine and I get the XP >> login then desktop on my debian etch laptop. When I try from home, I >> get a black window, no login. I tried adjusting the MTU, to no effect. >> I can't find anything useful on the wwweb - does anyone have any >> suggestions? >> >> Thanks, Colin >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 17:14:59 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:14:59 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4f9268790901060831t6468b1bdv1c4d574e001fd22f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> <078301c97006$7b6cc390$72464ab0$@com> <20090106154320.GF29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4f9268790901060745j29bbfb3vc2ec51a29912bf41@mail.gmail.com> <49638387.6000204@rogers.com> <4f9268790901060831t6468b1bdv1c4d574e001fd22f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49639193.1040506@rogers.com> Dave M. Sullivan wrote: > I wasn't aware that Rogers offered ADSL... I've never seen it > mentioned on their website. Though, they don't specify that its cable > either. It just says "Rogers Hi-Speed Internet Service". They inherited ADSL and dial up modem service, along with wired phone customers, when they bought Sprint a few years ago. I had seen the service listed on their web site previously, but not now. However, by searching on ADSL, I found ADSL modems listed. I suspect they may not be promoting that service in favour of cable, though it does give them access to customers in areas not served by cable TV. Their dial up modem service is still offered on their web site though. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 17:25:19 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:25:19 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <49639193.1040506-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> <078301c97006$7b6cc390$72464ab0$@com> <20090106154320.GF29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4f9268790901060745j29bbfb3vc2ec51a29912bf41@mail.gmail.com> <49638387.6000204@rogers.com> <4f9268790901060831t6468b1bdv1c4d574e001fd22f@mail.gmail.com> <49639193.1040506@rogers.com> Message-ID: <496393FF.4000406@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Dave M. Sullivan wrote: >> I wasn't aware that Rogers offered ADSL... I've never seen it >> mentioned on their website. Though, they don't specify that its cable >> either. It just says "Rogers Hi-Speed Internet Service". > > They inherited ADSL and dial up modem service, along with wired phone > customers, when they bought Sprint a few years ago. I had seen the > service listed on their web site previously, but not now. However, by > searching on ADSL, I found ADSL modems listed. I suspect they may not > be promoting that service in favour of cable, though it does give them > access to customers in areas not served by cable TV. Their dial up > modem service is still offered on their web site though. > Hmmm... I just found this in their FAQ: https://rogers.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/rogers.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=15217&p_created=1211485584&p_sid=JP57kfnj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PWRmbHQ6MSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MTMsMTMmcF9wcm9kcz0yNSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9MS4yNSZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX2ZubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWFkc2w*&p_li=&p_topview=1 They don't say if the service is still offered, but if it is, I imagine you'll have to ask and be in an area where cable is not available. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 17:58:12 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:58:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <20090105235025.GZ29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105235025.GZ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Rogers mobile internet is an option. I've been using this on the train, and I treat it as my backup link at home but I wouldn't recommend using it it as a primary link. Latency varies a lot and even overall speed can vary. I'm happy with it for what I use it for but I wouldn't consider it a replacement for DSL or cable to the home. > Some parts of toronto can have internet access via hydro's wifi network. > > Some satelite providers might still exist. I'm sure they do in fact. > Well rogers cable can be very fast (downstream). Of course there is the > dynamic IP (although it rarely changes) and the ban on running servers They (used to?) periodically scan for listening ports and don't seem to care about ssh, which is good. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 17:43:25 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:43:25 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <4963822B.80001-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090106174324.GG29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 11:09:15AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > We (living in Oakville) had 5 channels to choose from. Then, when CFTO > started, we had 6! Well I was in Denmark at the time. When I left in 1988 there was still only one TV station. Then about a year later they got a second one, and I think they now have a couple more, although they have quite a few via digital satelite, which seems to have become the standard distribution method now. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 18:13:29 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:13:29 -0500 Subject: (OT) Cameras in low light In-Reply-To: References: <20081218115234.0e11a824@teksavvy.com> <494A83EC.5050604@rogers.com> <494A8814.6040404@utoronto.ca> <494A8A04.9000708@rogers.com> <20081218192117.GX5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: John, Should have responded earlier, just kept postponing it for some reasons. I did appreaciate your take on this problem, very informative. > Look for a large aperture -- this is usually indicated on the lens; it > will read something like "5.0-20.0mm 1:2.8-5.8" or "5.0-20.0mm > F2.8/5.8". The "F-number" (or that ratio) indicates the aperture size > -- smaller numbers mean a larger aperture, and better performance in dim > light. Hmm, like an eye, in darkness the aperture widens. Would there be cameras with adjustable aperture? > > If you're going to shoot scenes that aren't moving, look for a camera > that can handle long exposures (look at the camera's shutter speed in > the specifications -- the longer you can set the shutter speed, the > less light you need). You need to use a tripod to do this, though. > Ok, now I think I would rather have a camera that can not see in dark than one that will need me to be still during picture capturing. The whole goal of owning a digital camera is to take pictures spontaneously. Or from a moving vehicle without having the picture being blurred. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 18:22:09 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:22:09 -0500 Subject: Connecting to an MS VPN from a laptop running debian etch. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Colins, > It turns out that all I needed to do to open the tunnel was add > "refuse-eap" to the "/etc/ppp/options.pptp" file. However, that did > not open a route to the remote network and ARP traffic (or, I assume, > IP traffic) was not forwarded. This showed up as not being able to > "ping" hosts on the remote network. To solve this issue, I had to > create a file, "/etc/ppp/ip-up.d/vpnroute" file containing: > > #!/bin/sh > if [ "${PPP_IPPARAM}" = "to-work" ]; then > route add -net netmask 255.255.255.0 dev ppp0 > fi > Now I have a fully working VPN (I think). > Thank you for updating us. Did you ever come across a way of using L2TP over IPSEC from Linux? Most organization using Window VPN tend to use L2TP over IPSEC as pptp is inherently very weak securitywise That being said, thank you again. May come handy some day. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jvetterli-Rn4VEauK+AKRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 18:46:06 2009 From: jvetterli-Rn4VEauK+AKRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (jvetterli-Rn4VEauK+AKRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:46:06 -0500 Subject: (OT) Cameras in low light In-Reply-To: References: <20081218115234.0e11a824@teksavvy.com> <494A83EC.5050604@rogers.com> <494A8814.6040404@utoronto.ca> <494A8A04.9000708@rogers.com> <20081218192117.GX5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 01:13:29PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > John, > > Look for a large aperture -- this is usually indicated on the lens; it > > will read something like "5.0-20.0mm 1:2.8-5.8" or "5.0-20.0mm > > F2.8/5.8". The "F-number" (or that ratio) indicates the aperture size > > -- smaller numbers mean a larger aperture, and better performance in dim > > light. > Hmm, like an eye, in darkness the aperture widens. Would there be > cameras with adjustable aperture? > > If you're going to shoot scenes that aren't moving, look for a camera > > that can handle long exposures (look at the camera's shutter speed in > > the specifications -- the longer you can set the shutter speed, the > > less light you need). You need to use a tripod to do this, though. > Ok, now I think I would rather have a camera that can not see in dark > than one that will need me to be still during picture capturing. The > whole goal of owning a digital camera is to take pictures > spontaneously. Or from a moving vehicle without having the picture > being blurred. Uh-oh. I think I may have misled you somewhere. Almost all cameras, including cheap point-and-shoot cameras, are able to adjust both the aperture size and shutter speed. Most, including cheap point-and-shoots, can make the adjustment automatically. A camera that works in low light (even if you have to use a tripod) will work even better in daylight (without a tripod, even in a moving car). HTH JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 19:06:04 2009 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:06:04 -0500 Subject: Rdesktop problem. In-Reply-To: References: <49638AAC.4020107@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <081c01c97031$d34458f0$79cd0ad0$@com> I had a similar issue. It was because of packet reassembly on pf running on FreeBSD. If you get the login window but it drops after that most likely its because of a similar issue. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of colin davidson Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 12:13 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Rdesktop problem. Hi Teddy, I don't know the ins and outs of how PPTP VPNs work. Don't think I want to - MS VPNs are known to be somewhat insecure. However, the packet forwarding works for "ping" packets, so I don't see why it wouldn't for RDP packets, at least as far as IP addresses go. Getting the right port is another matter, maybe, but surely any VPN would handle that, wouldn't it? As for why I use PPTP, it's because the company provides that and only that. If I want to VPN in, that's what I have to use. Changing firewall permissions ain't going to happen. I don't have control or sufficient influence. So to run my desktop remotely I have to tunnel through PPTP. Thanks, Colin On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:45 AM, teddymills wrote: > How do PPTP packets arriving at your work's public firewall know to send > them to your work XP box? > Are you port forwarding port 1723 TCP/UDP? > I am not sure if PPTP is any more secure than RDP. > > On work's public firewall, how about just portforwarding RDP 3389 to your XP > box at work. > That will work, but RDP is not secured. > > /teddy > > colin davidson wrote: >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I am trying to run rdesktop connecting via a pptp VPN to my work XP >> box. Locally (on the work LAN), everything is fine and I get the XP >> login then desktop on my debian etch laptop. When I try from home, I >> get a black window, no login. I tried adjusting the MTU, to no effect. >> I can't find anything useful on the wwweb - does anyone have any >> suggestions? >> >> Thanks, Colin >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 19:10:01 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:10:01 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4963AC89.7070802@dinamis.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Hi! > > I am currently looking at the options of getting broadband (ADSL level) > internet connection at home without having active phone line. > > The only methods I can see is using dry loop DSL or Cable Internet. Is > there any other way? I currently have the two most expensive providers, Bell for my home line and Rogers for cable Internet. I've been with Rogers since they started offering Internet service in my neighbourhood, circa 1998. Both have been quite reliable but Rogers in particular has been annoying me. They charge a premium and have the audacity to arbitrarily change the terms of service by imposing bandwidth caps. To add insult to injury, after clicking through on their stupid "Click here to acknowledge receipt of this notice", as if that made it all better, when I hit the bandwidth cap of 60GB they imposed but to which I've never consented, I was taken to a page explaining that I would be charged a ridiculous and punitive $2/GB in excess of the quota but that Lite customers who signed up prior to some date in 2008 weren't subject to being capped at all. Let me see if I get this straight. I could pay less and not be capped with the same provider or be a long-time customer who has been paying for their high-priced Internet access for a decade and be capped. I'll take door number three, a new provider, thanks. While I'm at it, I figured I'd look at everything, phone, mobile, Internet, and TV. So far, I've come up with: 3Web/Cybersurf offers "CIA Home Phone Premium with FREE High Speed Internet", which is a VOIP and Internet access bundle for $39.95. Their pre-sales phone support has been fine but an email that I sent before Christmas remains unanswered. They are one of the very few cable resellers so that means you can get the same access as with Rogers but only cheaper with them. If you already have Rogers cable Internet, there is no setup fee but if you don't, you may have to pay a $50 setup fee if a home visit is required. If you're in the GTA, apparently, they're usually able to provision the service without sending a technician so the setup fee is waived in those cases. I was told that whatever caps and traffic shaping Rogers employs in my area *may* be applied. I can understand the traffic shaping since that despicable company Bell starting shaping the traffic of their resellers' customers but I don't understand why Rogers' stupid caps should apply here. The Cybersurf people with whom I spoke said that they just use the Rogers network so if Rogers is good in your area, 3Web/Cybersurf should also be good but like any ISP, if you search dslreports, you'll find lots of jeers and cheers. 3Web's tech support seems dodgy from what I've read about it but if the service is as reliable as Rogers, you won't need it very often. I've read recent posts claiming that 3Web is on the verge of bankruptcy but I have no idea what the basis is for those posts. It could be true. It could be just the usual Internet know-it-alls who shoot their mouths off with wild abandon. Since 3Web doesn't require a contract, the risk seems minimal. Acanac offers DSL service for $227.40 for one year, including taxes, plus $8/month for the dry loop. They include 100GB of on-line storage. Again, I've read varied things about Acanac, none of which really scare me since people say the same things about Rogers or Bell too. The caveat with these guys is that if you want the best deal, you'll have to prepay for a year. If you just want to go month-to-month, TekSavvy, which seems to have quite a fan club of customers, seems like a better choice. Primus has a bundle of home phone, long distance, and DSL Internet for $64.95. One of my brothers uses them and is happy with them. They're apparently uncapped but I have no idea if they're subject to Bell's traffic shaping. My inclination is to go with cable and DSL Internet with two different providers to avoid the dependency on one provider and that would cost me only slightly more than what I'm paying now with Rogers if I hang on to my Bell POTS line or cheaper if I don't. I'm looking at two connections as RAIN (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Networks). Of course there is the not-so-insignificant matter of the phone and cable service coming into my home via overhead wires that are separated by only a few feet after running a gauntlet of trees with overhanging branches. One branch could take out both cables so that's obviously a risk but one that I can't do much about. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 19:27:06 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:27:06 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4963AC89.7070802-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4963AC89.7070802@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4963B08A.805@tmis.ca> I work at a hosting company. We do not offer ADSL services. What would I need to create my own ADSL connection between my home and work? I would need a bell line..and?? I cannot imagine making your own circuit it very likely. /teddy CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> I am currently looking at the options of getting broadband (ADSL level) >> internet connection at home without having active phone line. >> >> The only methods I can see is using dry loop DSL or Cable Internet. Is >> there any other way? >> > > I currently have the two most expensive providers, Bell for my home line > and Rogers for cable Internet. I've been with Rogers since they started > offering Internet service in my neighbourhood, circa 1998. Both have > been quite reliable but Rogers in particular has been annoying me. They > charge a premium and have the audacity to arbitrarily change the terms > of service by imposing bandwidth caps. To add insult to injury, after > clicking through on their stupid "Click here to acknowledge receipt of > this notice", as if that made it all better, when I hit the bandwidth > cap of 60GB they imposed but to which I've never consented, I was taken > to a page explaining that I would be charged a ridiculous and punitive > $2/GB in excess of the quota but that Lite customers who signed up prior > to some date in 2008 weren't subject to being capped at all. Let me see > if I get this straight. I could pay less and not be capped with the same > provider or be a long-time customer who has been paying for their > high-priced Internet access for a decade and be capped. I'll take door > number three, a new provider, thanks. While I'm at it, I figured I'd > look at everything, phone, mobile, Internet, and TV. > > So far, I've come up with: > > 3Web/Cybersurf offers "CIA Home Phone Premium with FREE High Speed > Internet", which is a VOIP and Internet access bundle for $39.95. Their > pre-sales phone support has been fine but an email that I sent before > Christmas remains unanswered. They are one of the very few cable > resellers so that means you can get the same access as with Rogers but > only cheaper with them. If you already have Rogers cable Internet, there > is no setup fee but if you don't, you may have to pay a $50 setup fee if > a home visit is required. If you're in the GTA, apparently, they're > usually able to provision the service without sending a technician so > the setup fee is waived in those cases. I was told that whatever caps > and traffic shaping Rogers employs in my area *may* be applied. I can > understand the traffic shaping since that despicable company Bell > starting shaping the traffic of their resellers' customers but I don't > understand why Rogers' stupid caps should apply here. > > > The Cybersurf people with whom I spoke said that they just use the > Rogers network so if Rogers is good in your area, 3Web/Cybersurf should > also be good but like any ISP, if you search dslreports, you'll find > lots of jeers and cheers. 3Web's tech support seems dodgy from what I've > read about it but if the service is as reliable as Rogers, you won't > need it very often. I've read recent posts claiming that 3Web is on the > verge of bankruptcy but I have no idea what the basis is for those > posts. It could be true. It could be just the usual Internet > know-it-alls who shoot their mouths off with wild abandon. Since 3Web > doesn't require a contract, the risk seems minimal. > > Acanac offers DSL service for $227.40 for one year, including taxes, > plus $8/month for the dry loop. They include 100GB of on-line storage. > Again, I've read varied things about Acanac, none of which really scare > me since people say the same things about Rogers or Bell too. The caveat > with these guys is that if you want the best deal, you'll have to prepay > for a year. If you just want to go month-to-month, TekSavvy, which seems > to have quite a fan club of customers, seems like a better choice. > > Primus has a bundle of home phone, long distance, and DSL Internet for > $64.95. One of my brothers uses them and is happy with them. They're > apparently uncapped but I have no idea if they're subject to Bell's > traffic shaping. > > My inclination is to go with cable and DSL Internet with two different > providers to avoid the dependency on one provider and that would cost me > only slightly more than what I'm paying now with Rogers if I hang on to > my Bell POTS line or cheaper if I don't. I'm looking at two connections > as RAIN (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Networks). Of course there is > the not-so-insignificant matter of the phone and cable service coming > into my home via overhead wires that are separated by only a few feet > after running a gauntlet of trees with overhanging branches. One branch > could take out both cables so that's obviously a risk but one that I > can't do much about. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 19:33:56 2009 From: linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kamran Khan) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:33:56 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac Message-ID: After 7 years of Linux being my primary desktop operating system at home(I tinkered with Linux since the Walnut Creek days) I jumped to a MacBook with Leopard. OS X is basically BSD UNIX with nice candy on top so you all the command tools that I came to love in UNIX and Linux are pretty much available. OS X has better support for hardware, especially gadgets like cell phones and cameras. Not as much as Windows but more then Linux and major vendors like Nokia release their software natively for OS X. OS X has better support for games, some of the big games are native on OS X and of course there is Wine and Cedega. OS X has much better integration between its applications like iCal and mail.app. Lastly, overall OS X is more "polished" then Linux. Linux as server operating system is excellent but when you move closer and closer to end user applications you see a lack of refinement, lack of polish, sometimes a lot of instability and very poor integration. The fasciation of getting things to work with Linux has long since passed and when I buy a printer I pretty much just want to plug it in. You pay a big premium for what is essentially PC hardware but so far it has proven to be the best desktop os I can find. So long Linux, see you on embedded devices everywhere. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 19:56:12 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:56:12 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4963B08A.805-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4963AC89.7070802@dinamis.com> <4963B08A.805@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4963B75C.7010502@rogers.com> teddymills wrote: > > I work at a hosting company. > We do not offer ADSL services. > > What would I need to create my own ADSL connection between my home and > work? > > I would need a bell line..and?? > I cannot imagine making your own circuit it very likely. > I assume you want a connection directly from your home to the office? If so, you have to be close enough and then you'd need a DSLAM that you'd connect the copper pair to. However, if you're going through all that trouble, you might want to consider SHDSL instead, which will give you symmetrical bandwidth. It usually also use multiple pairs for increased bandwidth. Another way is to use short hop microwave, assuming you have line of sight between the two locations. There is some unlicensed equipment available that can give you up to 18 Mb/s of ethernet traffic, for a bit over $1000 per end, plus installation. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 19:59:44 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:59:44 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4963AC89.7070802-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4963AC89.7070802@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20090106195944.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 02:10:01PM -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > I currently have the two most expensive providers, Bell for my home line > and Rogers for cable Internet. I've been with Rogers since they started > offering Internet service in my neighbourhood, circa 1998. Both have > been quite reliable but Rogers in particular has been annoying me. They > charge a premium and have the audacity to arbitrarily change the terms > of service by imposing bandwidth caps. To add insult to injury, after > clicking through on their stupid "Click here to acknowledge receipt of > this notice", as if that made it all better, when I hit the bandwidth > cap of 60GB they imposed but to which I've never consented, I was taken > to a page explaining that I would be charged a ridiculous and punitive > $2/GB in excess of the quota but that Lite customers who signed up prior > to some date in 2008 weren't subject to being capped at all. Let me see > if I get this straight. I could pay less and not be capped with the same > provider or be a long-time customer who has been paying for their > high-priced Internet access for a decade and be capped. I'll take door > number three, a new provider, thanks. While I'm at it, I figured I'd > look at everything, phone, mobile, Internet, and TV. Rogers has never been about offering what customers want. There are lots of thigns rogers could provide me that I would happely pay them money for that they apparently have no interest in providing even though their equipment is perferctly capable of doing it. > So far, I've come up with: > > 3Web/Cybersurf offers "CIA Home Phone Premium with FREE High Speed > Internet", which is a VOIP and Internet access bundle for $39.95. Their > pre-sales phone support has been fine but an email that I sent before > Christmas remains unanswered. They are one of the very few cable > resellers so that means you can get the same access as with Rogers but > only cheaper with them. If you already have Rogers cable Internet, there > is no setup fee but if you don't, you may have to pay a $50 setup fee if > a home visit is required. If you're in the GTA, apparently, they're > usually able to provision the service without sending a technician so > the setup fee is waived in those cases. I was told that whatever caps > and traffic shaping Rogers employs in my area *may* be applied. I can > understand the traffic shaping since that despicable company Bell > starting shaping the traffic of their resellers' customers but I don't > understand why Rogers' stupid caps should apply here. > It goes through rogers cable network, so rogers can do whatever they want before it reaches your ISP. > The Cybersurf people with whom I spoke said that they just use the > Rogers network so if Rogers is good in your area, 3Web/Cybersurf should > also be good but like any ISP, if you search dslreports, you'll find > lots of jeers and cheers. 3Web's tech support seems dodgy from what I've > read about it but if the service is as reliable as Rogers, you won't > need it very often. I've read recent posts claiming that 3Web is on the > verge of bankruptcy but I have no idea what the basis is for those > posts. It could be true. It could be just the usual Internet > know-it-alls who shoot their mouths off with wild abandon. Since 3Web > doesn't require a contract, the risk seems minimal. Well I haven't had to deal with 3web, other than (mistkenly) trying to call their tech support number, which I eventually gave up on after getting a busy signal (no not even put on hold) for a couple of hours. Fortunately it runs out I wanted to talk to a different cybersurf that didn't have anything to do with the 3web part, and once I discovered this the real tech support number I wanted answered right away. > Acanac offers DSL service for $227.40 for one year, including taxes, > plus $8/month for the dry loop. They include 100GB of on-line storage. > Again, I've read varied things about Acanac, none of which really scare > me since people say the same things about Rogers or Bell too. The caveat > with these guys is that if you want the best deal, you'll have to prepay > for a year. If you just want to go month-to-month, TekSavvy, which seems > to have quite a fan club of customers, seems like a better choice. Well I have rogers cable internet because there was no DSL option when I moved into my house. About 3 years later bell finally got DSL service to be available, but I haven't switched yet. If I switch it will be to someone like teksavvy where you can get a static IP, and you get competent tech support people who know what they are talking about and don't just follow scripts. If I call tech support, it is almost always because something is wrong at the ISP end and I want to make sure it is being fixed soon. > Primus has a bundle of home phone, long distance, and DSL Internet for > $64.95. One of my brothers uses them and is happy with them. They're > apparently uncapped but I have no idea if they're subject to Bell's > traffic shaping. > > My inclination is to go with cable and DSL Internet with two different > providers to avoid the dependency on one provider and that would cost me > only slightly more than what I'm paying now with Rogers if I hang on to > my Bell POTS line or cheaper if I don't. I'm looking at two connections > as RAIN (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Networks). Of course there is > the not-so-insignificant matter of the phone and cable service coming > into my home via overhead wires that are separated by only a few feet > after running a gauntlet of trees with overhanging branches. One branch > could take out both cables so that's obviously a risk but one that I > can't do much about. Well so far I have stuck with Bell for phone line (I want a phone line that works no matter what, so rogers's home phone service is never going to happen). Rogers cable internet is just too darn fast (although expensive) so I just haven't had the inclination to change it yet. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 20:08:16 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 15:08:16 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090106200816.GI29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 02:33:56PM -0500, Kamran Khan wrote: > After 7 years of Linux being my primary desktop operating system at > home(I tinkered with Linux since the Walnut Creek days) I jumped to a > MacBook with Leopard. OS X is basically BSD UNIX with nice candy on > top so you all the command tools that I came to love in UNIX and Linux > are pretty much available. OS X has better support for hardware, > especially gadgets like cell phones and cameras. Not as much as > Windows but more then Linux and major vendors like Nokia release their > software natively for OS X. OS X has better support for games, some > of the big games are native on OS X and of course there is Wine and > Cedega. OS X has much better integration between its applications > like iCal and mail.app. Lastly, overall OS X is more "polished" then > Linux. Linux as server operating system is excellent but when you > move closer and closer to end user applications you see a lack of > refinement, lack of polish, sometimes a lot of instability and very > poor integration. The fasciation of getting things to work with Linux > has long since passed and when I buy a printer I pretty much just want > to plug it in. You pay a big premium for what is essentially PC > hardware but so far it has proven to be the best desktop os I can > find. So long Linux, see you on embedded devices everywhere. Well I know of a few people that bought mac's and ran Mac OS X, and then they were dual booting OS X and debian, and eventually their macbook was running just debian because they found in the end OS X just wasn't flexible enough to really do work, and installing software was a lot simpler with debian as well. As for hardware support, well I do pretty well by having the policy of buying hardware that works with linux rather than trying to make linux work with hardware I have bought. Works amazingly well. Has the benefit of supporting companies that support linux. If you want a printer to work, buy a postscript printer, or at least one that supports a well known standard printer language and you won't have any issues. Mac OS X is a very nice OS, but it isn't debian. Even fink doesn't quite fix OS X's software installation issues. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 20:54:54 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:54:54 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> Kamran Khan wrote: > After 7 years of Linux being my primary desktop operating system at > home(I tinkered with Linux since the Walnut Creek days) I jumped to a > MacBook with Leopard. OS X is basically BSD UNIX with nice candy on > top so you all the command tools that I came to love in UNIX and Linux > are pretty much available. OS X has better support for hardware, > especially gadgets like cell phones and cameras. Not as much as > Windows but more then Linux and major vendors like Nokia release their > software natively for OS X. OS X has better support for games, some > of the big games are native on OS X and of course there is Wine and > Cedega. OS X has much better integration between its applications > like iCal and mail.app. Lastly, overall OS X is more "polished" then > Linux. Linux as server operating system is excellent but when you > move closer and closer to end user applications you see a lack of > refinement, lack of polish, sometimes a lot of instability and very > poor integration. The fasciation of getting things to work with Linux > has long since passed and when I buy a printer I pretty much just want > to plug it in. You pay a big premium for what is essentially PC > hardware but so far it has proven to be the best desktop os I can > find. So long Linux, see you on embedded devices everywhere. Ultimately platform choice is about getting your own work done. Your message indicates that you have discovered that Apple provides a more efficient / productive platform for you. That's a good thing. There is, however, an undercurrent in your post that seems to state that the rest of us on this list don't get it. We do. Linux is our platform of choice. It empowers us to get our work done. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 22:23:09 2009 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Lindsay A. B. Moniz) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:23:09 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <4963822B.80001-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4963D9CD.6090804@sympatico.ca> James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 10:23:23AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: >>> Oh yes they will. I remember _black and white_ TV. Vietnam War on >>> black and >>> white, actually. One of the first phrases I remember is 'body count'. >> >> I remember having black and white TV at home, with all 1 channels to >> choose from (not much need for a remote then and no arguing over what to >> watch). And I am only 33. >> > > We (living in Oakville) had 5 channels to choose from. Then, when > CFTO started, we had 6! We were living in Brampton when Rogers first started to roll out his cable service. I believe he started in Brampton, so it seemed we were living on the bleeding edge. That box with a push button for each channel, a wire to the converter box and big enough to sit on your lap was really something. Now THAT was a remote control. I'd say it qualifies as the first remote laptop.... :-). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 22:30:48 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:30:48 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <4963D9CD.6090804-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105173713.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <496249B6.6060503@alteeve.com> <49624EA8.1060400@rogers.com> <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <4963D9CD.6090804@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4963DB98.7040809@rogers.com> Lindsay A. B. Moniz wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 10:23:23AM -0500, JoeHill wrote: >>>> Oh yes they will. I remember _black and white_ TV. Vietnam War on >>>> black and >>>> white, actually. One of the first phrases I remember is 'body count'. >>> >>> I remember having black and white TV at home, with all 1 channels to >>> choose from (not much need for a remote then and no arguing over >>> what to >>> watch). And I am only 33. >>> >> >> We (living in Oakville) had 5 channels to choose from. Then, when >> CFTO started, we had 6! > We were living in Brampton when Rogers first started to roll out his > cable service. I believe he started in Brampton, so it seemed we were > living on the bleeding edge. That box with a push button for each > channel, a wire to the converter box and big enough to sit on your lap > was really something. Now THAT was a remote control. I'd say it > qualifies as the first remote laptop.... :-). Brampton??? I didn't think television reached that far into the sticks! ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 22:34:21 2009 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Lindsay A. B. Moniz) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:34:21 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <49639193.1040506-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> <078301c97006$7b6cc390$72464ab0$@com> <20090106154320.GF29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4f9268790901060745j29bbfb3vc2ec51a29912bf41@mail.gmail.com> <49638387.6000204@rogers.com> <4f9268790901060831t6468b1bdv1c4d574e001fd22f@mail.gmail.com> <49639193.1040506@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4963DC6D.8040208@sympatico.ca> James Knott wrote: > Dave M. Sullivan wrote: >> I wasn't aware that Rogers offered ADSL... I've never seen it >> mentioned on their website. Though, they don't specify that its cable >> either. It just says "Rogers Hi-Speed Internet Service". > > They inherited ADSL and dial up modem service, along with wired phone > customers, when they bought Sprint a few years ago. I had seen the > service listed on their web site previously, but not now. However, by > searching on ADSL, I found ADSL modems listed. I suspect they may not > be promoting that service in favour of cable, though it does give > them access to customers in areas not served by cable TV. Their dial > up modem service is still offered on their web site though. I would very much doubt they had any ADSL service where there was no cable service. Sprint only skimmed the cream off the top - no service to non-urban areas. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 22:38:30 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:38:30 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <4963D9CD.6090804-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <4963D9CD.6090804@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20090106223830.GB23759@watson-wilson.ca> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 05:23:09PM -0500, Lindsay A. B. Moniz wrote: >> We (living in Oakville) had 5 channels to choose from. Then, when >> CFTO started, we had 6! > We were living in Brampton when Rogers first started to roll out his > cable service. I believe he started in Brampton, so it seemed we were You guys are getting carried away now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 22:40:40 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:40:40 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4963DC6D.8040208-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> <078301c97006$7b6cc390$72464ab0$@com> <20090106154320.GF29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4f9268790901060745j29bbfb3vc2ec51a29912bf41@mail.gmail.com> <49638387.6000204@rogers.com> <4f9268790901060831t6468b1bdv1c4d574e001fd22f@mail.gmail.com> <49639193.1040506@rogers.com> <4963DC6D.8040208@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4963DDE8.2060606@rogers.com> Lindsay A. B. Moniz wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Dave M. Sullivan wrote: >>> I wasn't aware that Rogers offered ADSL... I've never seen it >>> mentioned on their website. Though, they don't specify that its cable >>> either. It just says "Rogers Hi-Speed Internet Service". >> >> They inherited ADSL and dial up modem service, along with wired phone >> customers, when they bought Sprint a few years ago. I had seen the >> service listed on their web site previously, but not now. However, >> by searching on ADSL, I found ADSL modems listed. I suspect they may >> not be promoting that service in favour of cable, though it does >> give them access to customers in areas not served by cable TV. Their >> dial up modem service is still offered on their web site though. > I would very much doubt they had any ADSL service where there was no > cable service. Sprint only skimmed the cream off the top - no service > to non-urban areas. There are many businesses in areas where cable is not available. The cable companies tend to build in the residential areas. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 22:42:29 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:42:29 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4963DC6D.8040208-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> <078301c97006$7b6cc390$72464ab0$@com> <20090106154320.GF29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4f9268790901060745j29bbfb3vc2ec51a29912bf41@mail.gmail.com> <49638387.6000204@rogers.com> <4f9268790901060831t6468b1bdv1c4d574e001fd22f@mail.gmail.com> <49639193.1040506@rogers.com> <4963DC6D.8040208@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4963DE55.1070700@rogers.com> Lindsay A. B. Moniz wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Dave M. Sullivan wrote: >>> I wasn't aware that Rogers offered ADSL... I've never seen it >>> mentioned on their website. Though, they don't specify that its cable >>> either. It just says "Rogers Hi-Speed Internet Service". >> >> They inherited ADSL and dial up modem service, along with wired phone >> customers, when they bought Sprint a few years ago. I had seen the >> service listed on their web site previously, but not now. However, >> by searching on ADSL, I found ADSL modems listed. I suspect they may >> not be promoting that service in favour of cable, though it does >> give them access to customers in areas not served by cable TV. Their >> dial up modem service is still offered on their web site though. > I would very much doubt they had any ADSL service where there was no > cable service. Sprint only skimmed the cream off the top - no service > to non-urban areas. Forgot to mention, some of those ADSL installations were in industrial areas of Mississauga. It's easier to reach those areas via phone line. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 22:48:27 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:48:27 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090106223830.GB23759-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <4963D9CD.6090804@sympatico.ca> <20090106223830.GB23759@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4963DFBB.50305@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 05:23:09PM -0500, Lindsay A. B. Moniz wrote: >>> We (living in Oakville) had 5 channels to choose from. Then, when >>> CFTO started, we had 6! >> We were living in Brampton when Rogers first started to roll out his >> cable service. I believe he started in Brampton, so it seemed we were > > You guys are getting carried away now: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo > When I was a kid, I had to walk 10 miles to and from school and it was uphill both ways! ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 6 23:39:08 2009 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Lindsay A. B. Moniz) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:39:08 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090106223830.GB23759-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <496250B8.6010705@alteeve.com> <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <4963D9CD.6090804@sympatico.ca> <20090106223830.GB23759@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4963EB9C.2020905@sympatico.ca> Neil Watson wrote: > On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 05:23:09PM -0500, Lindsay A. B. Moniz wrote: >>> We (living in Oakville) had 5 channels to choose from. Then, when >>> CFTO started, we had 6! >> We were living in Brampton when Rogers first started to roll out his >> cable service. I believe he started in Brampton, so it seemed we were > > You guys are getting carried away now: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo > That's one of my favourite Monty Python skits.... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 00:14:34 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:14:34 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <4963DFBB.50305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <4963D9CD.6090804@sympatico.ca> <20090106223830.GB23759@watson-wilson.ca> <4963DFBB.50305@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090107001434.GA24945@watson-wilson.ca> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 05:48:27PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >When I was a kid, I had to walk 10 miles to and from school and it was >uphill both ways! ;-) My high school was on the other side of a river valley. Thus it really was uphill both ways. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 03:41:05 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 22:41:05 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4963C51E.9010009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> I think one of the big issues to consider is that NONE of these get the job done for everyone, and often enough no one OS may even get the job done for an individual. Plenty of people I know use windows for games (the ones that don't run in other OS's), Linux for a general OS, and sometimes a Mac for other purposes (and certainly many have gone with the iPhone, which is somewhat of a new contender for 'other purposes' in itself). On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 3:54 PM, John McGregor wrote: > Kamran Khan wrote: >> After 7 years of Linux being my primary desktop operating system at >> home(I tinkered with Linux since the Walnut Creek days) I jumped to a >> MacBook with Leopard. OS X is basically BSD UNIX with nice candy on >> top so you all the command tools that I came to love in UNIX and Linux >> are pretty much available. OS X has better support for hardware, >> especially gadgets like cell phones and cameras. Not as much as >> Windows but more then Linux and major vendors like Nokia release their >> software natively for OS X. OS X has better support for games, some >> of the big games are native on OS X and of course there is Wine and >> Cedega. OS X has much better integration between its applications >> like iCal and mail.app. Lastly, overall OS X is more "polished" then >> Linux. Linux as server operating system is excellent but when you >> move closer and closer to end user applications you see a lack of >> refinement, lack of polish, sometimes a lot of instability and very >> poor integration. The fasciation of getting things to work with Linux >> has long since passed and when I buy a printer I pretty much just want >> to plug it in. You pay a big premium for what is essentially PC >> hardware but so far it has proven to be the best desktop os I can >> find. So long Linux, see you on embedded devices everywhere. > Ultimately platform choice is about getting your own work done. Your > message indicates that you have discovered that Apple provides a more > efficient / productive platform for you. That's a good thing. There is, > however, an undercurrent in your post that seems to state that the rest > of us on this list don't get it. We do. Linux is our platform of choice. > It empowers us to get our work done. > > John > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 04:03:41 2009 From: jason-HjkH5KTEMfuEjziKL+yzSg at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:03:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4f9268790901060745j29bbfb3vc2ec51a29912bf41-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> <078301c97006$7b6cc390$72464ab0$@com> <20090106154320.GF29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4f9268790901060745j29bbfb3vc2ec51a29912bf41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <23729dd8acde03df538c917ae58f0948.squirrel@jasoncarson.ca> > The only way to get around throttling is to go with Primus (I think) > and as far as I know their service coverage is limited, because they > don't have equipment in all of Bell's COs. Does Primus DSL "For your Home" have the option of getting a Static IP and will they allow me to run a server? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 05:00:24 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:00:24 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > I think one of the big issues to consider is that NONE of these get > the job done for everyone, and often enough no one OS may even get the > job done for an individual. Plenty of people I know use windows for > games (the ones that don't run in other OS's), Linux for a general OS, > and sometimes a Mac for other purposes (and certainly many have gone > with the iPhone, which is somewhat of a new contender for 'other > purposes' in itself). I think the worst thing an advocate for any OS (or anything, for that matter) is to encourage someone who is not happy with X to stay with X. For some, MS is peaches for everything. Same with OS X. We are largely Linux fans by definition. In the end though, everything has it's place. As I see it, and this is heavy generalization; Linux - Tinkerers, security freaks, people who always must go against the crowds, programmers and people who've had someone else set it up and love that their email always works. Microsoft - Gamers, mainstreamers, people who hate change, "power users" and people who love to install a mile of odds and ends programs. OS X - Graphics, artists, people who want something that "just works" and don't mind that they have to pay when things go wonky. Most people are some mix of these, and will use a mix of them. For me, Linux is tops, but I've got Vista on my game machine and I am trying to pester my boss into getting me an OS X box to play with. I am sure most here use some. Even most who refuse to use one under any circumstance will recognize that X has it's place. So to Kamran, I hope to see you around, and either way, enjoy your shiny new box! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 05:31:21 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:31:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: misc, attn djp Message-ID: Hi djp, I hope that you got my offlist message, I'd like a confirmation mails filters being what they are. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 11:36:51 2009 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:36:51 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090106121044.7ef2c0c2-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org on Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 12:10:44 -0500 References: <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <4962567C.4070902@alteeve.com> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <49638BB4.7080909@alteeve.com> <20090106121044.7ef2c0c2@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20090107113651.GA1947@localhost> On Tue Jan 06,2009 12:10:44 PM JoeHill wrote: > Anyone remember Intellivision? Now there was a cool system. Still have one. Still works. Have almost every game cartridge ever made for it. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 15:10:37 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:10:37 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <496436E8.5050806-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> I remember one that always used to tweak the nose of Linux people but (especially now that I use BSD for most of the work servers these days) I find rather amusing: "Linux is for people who hate windows, BSD is for those who love freedom" :-) Honestly, there are things I *love* about Macs, Linux, BSD, and even windows. Equally, there are things I absolutely hate about them all as well. One thought I had though, was that the newer version of MacOS (OSX version previous especially)/Linux/BSD tend to have significantly more to offer over others, and - at least with Vista - there hasn't been visibly that much more in the windows world (certainly 2k/XP was a big step up from 9x in many ways though). Of course, then I tried ubuntu 8.10 with **KDE4... and thus far - while it looks "prettier" - the broken functionality over KDE3 tends to lead to think that even Linux, at least in terms of the UI, is far from faultless in this regard. - TJA ** Has anyone else tried KDE4? I'd love to swap notes and try to sort out the big annoyance it's become. On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:00 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> I think one of the big issues to consider is that NONE of these get >> the job done for everyone, and often enough no one OS may even get the >> job done for an individual. Plenty of people I know use windows for >> games (the ones that don't run in other OS's), Linux for a general OS, >> and sometimes a Mac for other purposes (and certainly many have gone >> with the iPhone, which is somewhat of a new contender for 'other >> purposes' in itself). > > I think the worst thing an advocate for any OS (or anything, for that > matter) is to encourage someone who is not happy with X to stay with X. For > some, MS is peaches for everything. Same with OS X. We are largely Linux > fans by definition. In the end though, everything has it's place. > > As I see it, and this is heavy generalization; > > Linux - Tinkerers, security freaks, people who always must go against the > crowds, programmers and people who've had someone else set it up and love > that their email always works. > > Microsoft - Gamers, mainstreamers, people who hate change, "power users" and > people who love to install a mile of odds and ends programs. > > OS X - Graphics, artists, people who want something that "just works" and > don't mind that they have to pay when things go wonky. > > Most people are some mix of these, and will use a mix of them. For me, Linux > is tops, but I've got Vista on my game machine and I am trying to pester my > boss into getting me an OS X box to play with. > > I am sure most here use some. Even most who refuse to use one under any > circumstance will recognize that X has it's place. > > So to Kamran, > > I hope to see you around, and either way, enjoy your shiny new box! > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 15:30:08 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:30:08 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <20090107113651.GA1947@localhost> References: <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <49638BB4.7080909@alteeve.com> <20090106121044.7ef2c0c2@teksavvy.com> <20090107113651.GA1947@localhost> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901070730x58b108b1i11bba84a825e5447@mail.gmail.com> I remember the old "Dungeons and Dragons" game being a real hoot. Although after awhile part of the difficulty became getting around with the old and worn controllers. Who needs fancy graphics for a fun game? :-) Another goodie was "mouse-trap" for Atari. Anyone know what the legality of emulators+ROMS for these old games would be? Would the copyright have expired on them (I believe that NES is covered by it's been a long time since Intellivision/Atari produced that stuff). I think we're straying a bit off-topic from Linux, so I'll add to that: Best emulators for 'nix: Zsnes on 'nix is pretty good for most games. I believe you're still legit if you own the original carts. I've also used "epsxe" with some success. It can play PS games straight from the CD. Some games where the graphics are better than the original playstation on my PC graphics card :-) For mame, "kxmame" or "gmame" are nice too. Haven't tested anything for atari/intellivision though, but a lot of those old games have been remade with clones anyhow. - TJA On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:36 AM, Scott Allen wrote: > On Tue Jan 06,2009 12:10:44 PM JoeHill wrote: >> >> Anyone remember Intellivision? Now there was a cool system. > > Still have one. Still works. Have almost every game cartridge ever made for > it. > > > -- > ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** > ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 15:33:22 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:33:22 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4963B08A.805-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <4963AC89.7070802@dinamis.com> <4963B08A.805@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901070733y4b4f62fbk73b002ea53e011b3@mail.gmail.com> I'd imagine that if you were trying to circumvent the throttling/etc issues (and you employer was OK with the idea), you could use something like an OpenVPN connection. I use this quite often to connect to work, etc. The nice thing is then you have a tunnel to access your network shares, etc. On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 2:27 PM, teddymills wrote: > > I work at a hosting company. > We do not offer ADSL services. > > What would I need to create my own ADSL connection between my home and work? > > I would need a bell line..and?? > I cannot imagine making your own circuit it very likely. > > /teddy > > > > > CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> >> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi! >>> >>> I am currently looking at the options of getting broadband (ADSL level) >>> internet connection at home without having active phone line. >>> >>> The only methods I can see is using dry loop DSL or Cable Internet. Is >>> there any other way? >>> >> >> I currently have the two most expensive providers, Bell for my home line >> and Rogers for cable Internet. I've been with Rogers since they started >> offering Internet service in my neighbourhood, circa 1998. Both have >> been quite reliable but Rogers in particular has been annoying me. They >> charge a premium and have the audacity to arbitrarily change the terms >> of service by imposing bandwidth caps. To add insult to injury, after >> clicking through on their stupid "Click here to acknowledge receipt of >> this notice", as if that made it all better, when I hit the bandwidth >> cap of 60GB they imposed but to which I've never consented, I was taken >> to a page explaining that I would be charged a ridiculous and punitive >> $2/GB in excess of the quota but that Lite customers who signed up prior >> to some date in 2008 weren't subject to being capped at all. Let me see >> if I get this straight. I could pay less and not be capped with the same >> provider or be a long-time customer who has been paying for their >> high-priced Internet access for a decade and be capped. I'll take door >> number three, a new provider, thanks. While I'm at it, I figured I'd >> look at everything, phone, mobile, Internet, and TV. >> >> So far, I've come up with: >> >> 3Web/Cybersurf offers "CIA Home Phone Premium with FREE High Speed >> Internet", which is a VOIP and Internet access bundle for $39.95. Their >> pre-sales phone support has been fine but an email that I sent before >> Christmas remains unanswered. They are one of the very few cable >> resellers so that means you can get the same access as with Rogers but >> only cheaper with them. If you already have Rogers cable Internet, there >> is no setup fee but if you don't, you may have to pay a $50 setup fee if >> a home visit is required. If you're in the GTA, apparently, they're >> usually able to provision the service without sending a technician so >> the setup fee is waived in those cases. I was told that whatever caps >> and traffic shaping Rogers employs in my area *may* be applied. I can >> understand the traffic shaping since that despicable company Bell >> starting shaping the traffic of their resellers' customers but I don't >> understand why Rogers' stupid caps should apply here. >> >> >> The Cybersurf people with whom I spoke said that they just use the >> Rogers network so if Rogers is good in your area, 3Web/Cybersurf should >> also be good but like any ISP, if you search dslreports, you'll find >> lots of jeers and cheers. 3Web's tech support seems dodgy from what I've >> read about it but if the service is as reliable as Rogers, you won't >> need it very often. I've read recent posts claiming that 3Web is on the >> verge of bankruptcy but I have no idea what the basis is for those >> posts. It could be true. It could be just the usual Internet >> know-it-alls who shoot their mouths off with wild abandon. Since 3Web >> doesn't require a contract, the risk seems minimal. >> >> Acanac offers DSL service for $227.40 for one year, including taxes, >> plus $8/month for the dry loop. They include 100GB of on-line storage. >> Again, I've read varied things about Acanac, none of which really scare >> me since people say the same things about Rogers or Bell too. The caveat >> with these guys is that if you want the best deal, you'll have to prepay >> for a year. If you just want to go month-to-month, TekSavvy, which seems >> to have quite a fan club of customers, seems like a better choice. >> >> Primus has a bundle of home phone, long distance, and DSL Internet for >> $64.95. One of my brothers uses them and is happy with them. They're >> apparently uncapped but I have no idea if they're subject to Bell's >> traffic shaping. >> >> My inclination is to go with cable and DSL Internet with two different >> providers to avoid the dependency on one provider and that would cost me >> only slightly more than what I'm paying now with Rogers if I hang on to >> my Bell POTS line or cheaper if I don't. I'm looking at two connections >> as RAIN (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Networks). Of course there is >> the not-so-insignificant matter of the phone and cable service coming >> into my home via overhead wires that are separated by only a few feet >> after running a gauntlet of trees with overhanging branches. One branch >> could take out both cables so that's obviously a risk but one that I >> can't do much about. >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 15:44:21 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:44:21 -0500 Subject: New KDE (was: Re:Linux drove me to get a Mac) In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4964CDD5.7020906@alteeve.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > ** Has anyone else tried KDE4? I'd love to swap notes and try to sort > out the big annoyance it's become. Indirectly, yes. I've used Kate for some time now for programming (under Gnome). Until 8/04, it never *once* crashed on me. Now, under 8.10, it's crashed countless times. Nothing else on my system has though. The only reason I still use it is that I can't find a Gnome equivalent. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 15:50:10 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:50:10 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901070730x58b108b1i11bba84a825e5447-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <49638BB4.7080909@alteeve.com> <20090106121044.7ef2c0c2@teksavvy.com> <20090107113651.GA1947@localhost> <3a97ef0901070730x58b108b1i11bba84a825e5447@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4964CF32.9090009@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > I remember the old "Dungeons and Dragons" game being a real hoot. > Although after awhile part of the difficulty became getting around > with the old and worn controllers. > > Who needs fancy graphics for a fun game? :-) > Adventure rules!!! ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 16:00:19 2009 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:00:19 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <4964CF32.9090009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <49638BB4.7080909@alteeve.com> <20090106121044.7ef2c0c2@teksavvy.com> <20090107113651.GA1947@localhost> <3a97ef0901070730x58b108b1i11bba84a825e5447@mail.gmail.com> <4964CF32.9090009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4964D193.8010309@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> I remember the old "Dungeons and Dragons" game being a real hoot. >> Although after awhile part of the difficulty became getting around >> with the old and worn controllers. >> >> Who needs fancy graphics for a fun game? :-) >> >> > > Adventure rules!!! ;-) > I still have ZORK lying around somewhere. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 16:20:11 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:20:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901070730x58b108b1i11bba84a825e5447-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <49638BB4.7080909@alteeve.com> <20090106121044.7ef2c0c2@teksavvy.com> <20090107113651.GA1947@localhost> <3a97ef0901070730x58b108b1i11bba84a825e5447@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Tyler Aviss | Anyone know what the legality of emulators+ROMS for these old games | would be? Would the copyright have expired on them (I believe that NES | is covered by it's been a long time since Intellivision/Atari produced | that stuff). Copyright seems to go on forever. Especially in the US. I'm not joking. Whenever anything is about to have its copyright expire, the US extends the length of copyright. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act Those carts would be copyright for 95 years from creation in the US. There is pressure to make copyright terms in all countries the same and to make that term equal to the longest of existing terms in any country. This is the kind of pressure to which most countries seem to acquiesce. This is an example of policy laundering (a lovely term) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_Laundering | I think we're straying a bit off-topic from Linux, so I'll add to that: No, we are not. Copyright, including duration, has a large effect on Linux and opens source software and how we are allowed to use "content". The holders of the copyrights on many old carts cannot be found so it may be impossible to legally copy them (as is essentially necessary to use them on a new platform). | Best emulators for 'nix: | Zsnes on 'nix is pretty good for most games. I believe you're still | legit if you own the original carts. No, this would not be legit in a strict reading of copyright legislation. I do think that it would be unethical and immoral to do so. | I've also used "epsxe" with some success. It can play PS games | straight from the CD. The industry would claim that even this would be a violation. I would guess that a court case in Canada would show that their theory was wrong, but IANAL. The new Canadian copyright Act (which died on the order paper when Harper called the last election) would have made that illegal because it involves circumvention of Digital Rights Management measures. This act is likely to appear again in the next session of parliament. Copyright law is a disaster and it is likely to get worse. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 17:29:09 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:29:09 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090107172909.GJ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 10:10:37AM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I remember one that always used to tweak the nose of Linux people but > (especially now that I use BSD for most of the work servers these > days) I find rather amusing: > > "Linux is for people who hate windows, BSD is for those who love freedom" :-) Well certainly the GPL is about keeping code free. The BSD license is about keeping users free. > Honestly, there are things I *love* about Macs, Linux, BSD, and even > windows. Equally, there are things I absolutely hate about them all as > well. Hmm, I hate the price of macs, but the OS is nice. I love linux, although it doesn't always work great for everything. I love the quality of BSD, but hate their entire userspace (init, shell, etc) I love being able to play games on windows, but hate the price and how many restrictions microsoft wants to put on what you do with it, the registry, how difficult it is to fix when it breaks because everything is hidden in a binary database and there is no reliable way to just boot and go in and fix it, the fact it is tied to a specific machine (I can move a drive from one machine to another with linux and almost always just boot and use it, not so with windows). > One thought I had though, was that the newer version of MacOS (OSX > version previous especially)/Linux/BSD tend to have significantly more > to offer over others, and - at least with Vista - there hasn't been > visibly that much more in the windows world (certainly 2k/XP was a big > step up from 9x in many ways though). > > Of course, then I tried ubuntu 8.10 with **KDE4... and thus far - > while it looks "prettier" - the broken functionality over KDE3 tends > to lead to think that even Linux, at least in terms of the UI, is far > from faultless in this regard. kde4 just seems broken in many ways. It's nearly imposible to find where to configure things and make it work like it should. I don't know what the kde people were thinking with that. > ** Has anyone else tried KDE4? I'd love to swap notes and try to sort > out the big annoyance it's become. I am running it, although I use very little of it so it doesn't seem to bother me too much. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 17:31:24 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:31:24 -0500 Subject: Is game emulation unethical? (was Re:Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista) In-Reply-To: References: <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <49638BB4.7080909@alteeve.com> <20090106121044.7ef2c0c2@teksavvy.com> <20090107113651.GA1947@localhost> <3a97ef0901070730x58b108b1i11bba84a825e5447@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4964E6EC.3090508@telly.org> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | Best emulators for 'nix: > | Zsnes on 'nix is pretty good for most games. I believe you're still > | legit if you own the original carts. > > No, this would not be legit in a strict reading of copyright legislation. > > I do think that it would be unethical and immoral to do so. > I was with you until that last sentence. I find it highly unethical that a purchase of any copyrighted content is bound to a specific delivery mechanism. You had legally purchased the LP but then had to pay full price to get the same content that you already purchased again on cassette, then CD. Not so much as a discount offered to existing licensees. Obsolescence of playing devices is even worse. Once they stop making and supporting players for the software for which you have legitimate license to use, you have been derprived your right to enjoy the product you have paid for. It is IMO ethical for you to be able to make a reasonable attempt to play your legally licensed software by another means. Whether it is legal is for courts to decide but you went beyond legal definitions. I would personally hope that no court would rule against someone with a legal license for something who is simply trying to maintain enjoyment of that license. The original licenses in most CDs would not permit their ripping of CDs to digital files, yet that is exactly what tools such as iTunes do. Yet what court would convict someome for ripping a legitimately-purchased CD to digital? It maybe strictly against the letter of the law, but -- compared to larger issues of piracy -- is a comparative waste of the legal system. I personally don't believe that it is unethical to transfer your own copy of something legally acquired to another media, providing you either destroy the original or save it as an unplayed backup (and/or as proof of license). Of course, there are other issues involved if the rights owner can no longer be found or identified. Who, then, is being wronged by the copying? Do property rights extend to ghosts? > The new Canadian copyright Act (which died on the order paper when Harper called the last election) would have made that illegal because it involves circumvention of Digital Rights Management measures. This act is likely to appear again in the next session of parliament. > Maybe, but it may too fall when the next election is inevitably called. Copyright "reform" has thankfully a very low priority, as the only ones asking for it are Hollywood North and the US government. In the current economic and political climate its priority will decline further still. An increasing number of Canadian artists are coming to the conclusion that the current reforms do not benefit them, so the critical "cultural protection" argument of would-be reformers is melting. The delays may indeed help buy some time to gain momentum against the reforms. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 17:34:57 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:34:57 -0500 Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901070730x58b108b1i11bba84a825e5447-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <49638BB4.7080909@alteeve.com> <20090106121044.7ef2c0c2@teksavvy.com> <20090107113651.GA1947@localhost> <3a97ef0901070730x58b108b1i11bba84a825e5447@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090107173456.GK29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 10:30:08AM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I remember the old "Dungeons and Dragons" game being a real hoot. > Although after awhile part of the difficulty became getting around > with the old and worn controllers. > > Who needs fancy graphics for a fun game? :-) > > Another goodie was "mouse-trap" for Atari. > > Anyone know what the legality of emulators+ROMS for these old games > would be? Would the copyright have expired on them (I believe that NES > is covered by it's been a long time since Intellivision/Atari produced > that stuff). Well copyright is about 75 years or so isn't it? Some people seem to go by the idea that if you can't actually buy a copy because no one sells it anymore and in many cases the company no longer exists, then using copies of the roms is kind of OK. Certainly pleasuredome goes by that method, and anytime something does become available for purchase, they stop distributing it, so things like dragon's lair and space ace which are now available on DVD are no longer distributed, and some games that are avialable from atari for windows or as stand alone game devices are no longer distributed either. But if they can't be bought anywhere, they think it is fair game. > I think we're straying a bit off-topic from Linux, so I'll add to that: > > Best emulators for 'nix: > Zsnes on 'nix is pretty good for most games. I believe you're still > legit if you own the original carts. > I've also used "epsxe" with some success. It can play PS games > straight from the CD. Some games where the graphics are better than > the original playstation on my PC graphics card :-) > For mame, "kxmame" or "gmame" are nice too. > Haven't tested anything for atari/intellivision though, but a lot of > those old games have been remade with clones anyhow. I think mess covers a number of the old consoles. It is related to mame. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 18:45:03 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:45:03 -0500 Subject: KDE4 In-Reply-To: <20090107172909.GJ29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <20090107172909.GJ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4964F82F.7080304@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Of course, then I tried ubuntu 8.10 with **KDE4... and thus far - >> while it looks "prettier" - the broken functionality over KDE3 tends >> to lead to think that even Linux, at least in terms of the UI, is far >> from faultless in this regard. >> > > kde4 just seems broken in many ways. It's nearly imposible to find > where to configure things and make it work like it should. I don't know > what the kde people were thinking with that. > I agree, There are too many things that seem missing, poorly placed, or changed for the sake of change. The new file browser (dolphin) is a bug step up in usability over KDE3 but they haven't yet enabled video thumbnails. Firefox and Thunderbird specifically seem less stable since I upgraded, with the former crashing about once daily at random spots. I used to be able to right-click on an archive file and have it extract to a subdirectory; that's gone now. I find the new default window look-and-feels jarring and will probably look to re-install some Crystal themes. The darker panels and menus (a look shared with Vista) make it look more like a gamerz environment than a home or business system. And I guess I just can't think enough out of the box yet to appreciate the KDE newfound obsession with floating widgets (even though there really aren't very many to choose from) In all there seems to be plenty of potential but I feel like I'm participating in a beta test and not a production-grade distribution. KDE 4.2 is supposed to fix a zillion little things (as I was told 4.1 did before that) and I'm cautiously optimistic that it might be ready for public consumption at that point. But not yet. >> ** Has anyone else tried KDE4? I'd love to swap notes and try to sort out the big annoyance it's become. >> Sure, but I don't know how much help I'll be. I'm encountering more annoyances than I'm solving.... - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 20:12:00 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:12:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jan 2009, Tyler Aviss wrote: ... > Of course, then I tried ubuntu 8.10 with **KDE4... and thus far - > while it looks "prettier" - the broken functionality over KDE3 tends > to lead to think that even Linux, at least in terms of the UI, is far > from faultless in this regard. KDE != Linux If KDE4 doesn't work for you, you can use another DM/WM or whatever. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 21:06:05 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:06:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, Dave M. Sullivan wrote: > I have TekSavvy, and I'm paying $41 a month flat for dry loop > DSL. That's with their Premium ($29.95/mo) plan. And it's only > $19.95 installation fee. Thanks. I just confirmed with TekSavvy that the $19.99 is not part of the setup fee. I guess now the question how to do the transfer without losing Internet connection (or at least just losing it minimally). TekSavvy said the issue of moving to dry-loop - even everything scheduled well in advance - is that sometime on the date of phone disconnection Bell did not "see" the disconnection order as yet, and therefore the dry-loop setup cannot be done on the same day. I am now wondering whether it is possible to get the phone disconnection 1 day before the DSL disconnection, so on the day DSL connection, no issue on getting the dry-loop DSL connection setup. Will that work (means for 1 night phone is disconnected but the DSL is not yet disconnected)? -- (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ** Felix dies Nativitatis! http://advent2008.com/ Happy New Year! ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 22:21:17 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:21:17 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4963AC89.7070802-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4963AC89.7070802@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <49652ADD.2050505@utoronto.ca> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: >> Hi! >> >> I am currently looking at the options of getting broadband (ADSL level) >> internet connection at home without having active phone line. >> >> The only methods I can see is using dry loop DSL or Cable Internet. Is >> there any other way? > > I currently have the two most expensive providers, Bell for my home line > and Rogers for cable Internet. I've been with Rogers since they started > offering Internet service in my neighbourhood, circa 1998. Both have > been quite reliable but Rogers in particular has been annoying me. They > charge a premium and have the audacity to arbitrarily change the terms > of service by imposing bandwidth caps. To add insult to injury, after > clicking through on their stupid "Click here to acknowledge receipt of > this notice", as if that made it all better, when I hit the bandwidth > cap of 60GB they imposed but to which I've never consented, I was taken > to a page explaining that I would be charged a ridiculous and punitive > $2/GB in excess of the quota but that Lite customers who signed up prior > to some date in 2008 weren't subject to being capped at all. Let me see > if I get this straight. I could pay less and not be capped with the same > provider or be a long-time customer who has been paying for their > high-priced Internet access for a decade and be capped. I'll take door > number three, a new provider, thanks. While I'm at it, I figured I'd > look at everything, phone, mobile, Internet, and TV. > > So far, I've come up with: > > 3Web/Cybersurf offers "CIA Home Phone Premium with FREE High Speed > Internet", which is a VOIP and Internet access bundle for $39.95. Their > pre-sales phone support has been fine but an email that I sent before > Christmas remains unanswered. They are one of the very few cable > resellers so that means you can get the same access as with Rogers but > only cheaper with them. If you already have Rogers cable Internet, there > is no setup fee but if you don't, you may have to pay a $50 setup fee if > a home visit is required. If you're in the GTA, apparently, they're > usually able to provision the service without sending a technician so > the setup fee is waived in those cases. I was told that whatever caps > and traffic shaping Rogers employs in my area *may* be applied. I can > understand the traffic shaping since that despicable company Bell > starting shaping the traffic of their resellers' customers but I don't > understand why Rogers' stupid caps should apply here. > > > The Cybersurf people with whom I spoke said that they just use the > Rogers network so if Rogers is good in your area, 3Web/Cybersurf should > also be good but like any ISP, if you search dslreports, you'll find > lots of jeers and cheers. 3Web's tech support seems dodgy from what I've > read about it but if the service is as reliable as Rogers, you won't > need it very often. I've read recent posts claiming that 3Web is on the > verge of bankruptcy but I have no idea what the basis is for those > posts. It could be true. It could be just the usual Internet > know-it-alls who shoot their mouths off with wild abandon. Since 3Web > doesn't require a contract, the risk seems minimal. > > Acanac offers DSL service for $227.40 for one year, including taxes, > plus $8/month for the dry loop. They include 100GB of on-line storage. > Again, I've read varied things about Acanac, none of which really scare > me since people say the same things about Rogers or Bell too. The caveat > with these guys is that if you want the best deal, you'll have to prepay > for a year. If you just want to go month-to-month, TekSavvy, which seems > to have quite a fan club of customers, seems like a better choice. > > Primus has a bundle of home phone, long distance, and DSL Internet for > $64.95. One of my brothers uses them and is happy with them. They're > apparently uncapped but I have no idea if they're subject to Bell's > traffic shaping. > > My inclination is to go with cable and DSL Internet with two different > providers to avoid the dependency on one provider and that would cost me > only slightly more than what I'm paying now with Rogers if I hang on to > my Bell POTS line or cheaper if I don't. I'm looking at two connections > as RAIN (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Networks). Of course there is > the not-so-insignificant matter of the phone and cable service coming > into my home via overhead wires that are separated by only a few feet > after running a gauntlet of trees with overhanging branches. One branch > could take out both cables so that's obviously a risk but one that I > can't do much about. You could go with 2 DSL connections and mlppp, that circumvents any throttling, and gives you decent redundancy considering the tree problem you've noted. Perhaps acanac and teksavvy, combined it'd still be less than some of rogers' offerings too ;) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 22:40:04 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:40:04 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> Of course, then I tried ubuntu 8.10 with **KDE4... and thus far - >> while it looks "prettier" - the broken functionality over KDE3 tends >> to lead to think that even Linux, at least in terms of the UI, is far >> from faultless in this regard. > > KDE != Linux > > If KDE4 doesn't work for you, you can use another DM/WM or whatever. That's obvious to most people here, but not the point of the critique. KDE4 was shipped by Ubuntu/Kubuntu (in preference to sticking with KDE3) as part of a non-beta version of a major distribution. This distribution is being recommended and given to people who may be new to Linux or unfamiliar with the available alternatives (let alone the methods required to enable them). In this environment, even us old-timers are seeing that KDE4.1 is just not up to the task. And if experienced users are having some frustrations, newcomers will have them tenfold. The inclusion of KDE4 in Kubuntu 8.10 indicates a serious QC problem within the ubuntu community. For release 8.04 KDE4 was made available as a non-default option. In retrospect that policy should have been maintained for 8.10, a view that is not mitigated by the availability of GNOME as an option. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 23:25:40 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 18:25:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <20090105235025.GZ29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105235025.GZ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Rogers mobile internet is an option. > Some parts of toronto can have internet access via hydro's > wifi network. > Some satelite providers might still exist. > Some rural areas have special directional wifi services as > well. So, for something in ADSL level of performance in Toronto suburb (Markham), it is only Rogers Cable or ADSL, right? :-) BTW, I know someone who in-fact use satelite Internet. So it is still there. I heard his complains about how the connection gone when the weather is bad. :-) > 3web and a few others can provide service over rogers cable in > some areas, Ah, yes 3web still around. But I heard so many bad experiences about them, including some personal close friends. Are they any better now? > Well rogers cable can be very fast (downstream). Of course > there is the dynamic IP (although it rarely changes) and the > ban on running servers and such, which teksavvy doesn't have. > And you can get blocks of static IPs on teksavvy. ... and Rogers blocks SMTP port... -- (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ** Felix dies Nativitatis! http://advent2008.com/ Happy New Year! ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 7 23:34:44 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:34:44 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: References: <20090105235025.GZ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49653C14.20409@dinamis.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Well rogers cable can be very fast (downstream). Of course there is >> the dynamic IP (although it rarely changes) and the ban on running >> servers and such, which teksavvy doesn't have. And you can get blocks >> of static IPs on teksavvy. > > ... and Rogers blocks SMTP port... They don't with the "business" service, not that it's worth anything since many servers will reject mail originating from stmp servers on the Rogers domain anyway. You shouldn't be rejecting Rogers on this basis. Though TekSavvy will give you a static IP, I have no idea if they will do reverse DNS for your domain. Without a reverse DNS, your mail will be rejected by some servers, most of which you can't ignore. You can always relay through your ISP's smtp server, though Rogers requires that you "register" each of your email addresses with Yahoo before allowing that (the better to spam you). -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 00:22:30 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 19:22:30 -0500 Subject: KDE4 In-Reply-To: <4964F82F.7080304-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <20090107172909.GJ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4964F82F.7080304@telly.org> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901071622h12e3b32fh64083d661e673078@mail.gmail.com> These are two feelings I shared in regards to KDE4: * In all there seems to be plenty of potential but I feel like I'm participating in a beta test and not a production-grade distribution * The darker panels and menus (a look shared with Vista) The 3d-accelerated functions (which in OpenGL mode mess up any FMV on my laptop having an ATI card, but works a bit better in XRender mode) and the whole widget-docking and dark look seem to make it seem like KDE is playing as a poor imitation of Vista, and the slew of bugs and altered/missing functionality definitely has an "unfinished" quality about it. Bah. Maybe I'll switch to gnome for awhile. - TJA On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Of course, then I tried ubuntu 8.10 with **KDE4... and thus far - > while it looks "prettier" - the broken functionality over KDE3 tends > to lead to think that even Linux, at least in terms of the UI, is far > from faultless in this regard. > > > kde4 just seems broken in many ways. It's nearly imposible to find > where to configure things and make it work like it should. I don't know > what the kde people were thinking with that. > > > I agree, There are too many things that seem missing, poorly placed, or > changed for the sake of change. > The new file browser (dolphin) is a bug step up in usability over KDE3 but > they haven't yet enabled video thumbnails. > > Firefox and Thunderbird specifically seem less stable since I upgraded, with > the former crashing about once daily at random spots. > I used to be able to right-click on an archive file and have it extract to a > subdirectory; that's gone now. > I find the new default window look-and-feels jarring and will probably look > to re-install some Crystal themes. > The darker panels and menus (a look shared with Vista) make it look more > like a gamerz environment than a home or business system. > And I guess I just can't think enough out of the box yet to appreciate the > KDE newfound obsession with floating widgets (even though there really > aren't very many to choose from) > > In all there seems to be plenty of potential but I feel like I'm > participating in a beta test and not a production-grade distribution. KDE > 4.2 is supposed to fix a zillion little things (as I was told 4.1 did before > that) and I'm cautiously optimistic that it might be ready for public > consumption at that point. But not yet. > > ** Has anyone else tried KDE4? I'd love to swap notes and try to sort out > the big annoyance it's become. > > > Sure, but I don't know how much help I'll be. I'm encountering more > annoyances than I'm solving.... > > - Evan > > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 01:01:02 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:01:02 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <49652F44.4030609-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901071701g781f723ck605832181c2f5e80@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >>> Of course, then I tried ubuntu 8.10 with **KDE4... and thus far - >>> while it looks "prettier" - the broken functionality over KDE3 tends >>> to lead to think that even Linux, at least in terms of the UI, is far >>> from faultless in this regard. >> >> KDE != Linux >> >> If KDE4 doesn't work for you, you can use another DM/WM or whatever. > > That's obvious to most people here, but not the point of the critique. > > KDE4 was shipped by Ubuntu/Kubuntu (in preference to sticking with KDE3) as > part of a non-beta version of a major distribution. This distribution is > being recommended and given to people who may be new to Linux or unfamiliar > with the available alternatives (let alone the methods required to enable > them). In this environment, even us old-timers are seeing that KDE4.1 is > just not up to the task. And if experienced users are having some > frustrations, newcomers will have them tenfold. > > The inclusion of KDE4 in Kubuntu 8.10 indicates a serious QC problem within > the ubuntu community. For release 8.04 KDE4 was made available as a > non-default option. In retrospect that policy should have been maintained > for 8.10, a view that is not mitigated by the availability of GNOME as an > option. > > - Evan In 8.10 the ability to stick with KDE3 disappeared as well, so anyone upgrading and wanting the other good things about Intrepid also have to eat the not-so-good things that happen when moving to KDE4. Of course KDE isn't Linux, but it is one of the two bigger contenders in terms of WM/DM. Certainly I could have continued to update my own kernels etc (usually do anyhow) to keep my drivers up-to-date while sticking with Hardy, but really the whole thing seems to be something of a debacle. Of course I could also have switched distros entirely, but I've been through that before and it's generally not worth the headache. Hopefully KDE4/Ubuntu will grow post these little hiccups sometime soon, but it would have been nice if the change hadn't been quite so *forced*. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 01:18:35 2009 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:18:35 -0500 Subject: Tomcat Based Webmail Message-ID: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> Hello All, I cant help but be impressed by slew of Tomcat applications that are so well written. Is there a central repository of Tomcat applications? Also, is there a tomcat webmail application? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 01:39:54 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:39:54 -0500 Subject: Tomcat Based Webmail In-Reply-To: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> Message-ID: <4965596A.8030201@gmail.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > Hello All, > > I cant help but be impressed by slew of Tomcat applications that are > so well written. Is there a central repository of Tomcat applications? > > Also, is there a tomcat webmail application? > Tomcat is a servlet web server. This is not a web server per se. If a few requests come to Tomcat at the same time, expect with a great chance disastrous results. Tomcat should be used together with apache. Apache as a front end, sending requests to Tomcat, Tomcat answering and sending results back to Apache. Better go to PHP for webmail applications. Squirlmail is a good one. It works with postfix. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 02:12:02 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:12:02 -0500 Subject: Tomcat Based Webmail In-Reply-To: <4965596A.8030201-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <4965596A.8030201@gmail.com> Message-ID: <496560F2.9000300@utoronto.ca> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> >> Hello All, >> >> I cant help but be impressed by slew of Tomcat applications that are >> so well written. Is there a central repository of Tomcat applications? >> >> Also, is there a tomcat webmail application? >> > Tomcat is a servlet web server. This is not a web server per se. If a > few requests come to Tomcat at the same time, expect with a great chance > disastrous results. Tomcat should be used together with apache. Apache > as a front end, sending requests to Tomcat, Tomcat answering and sending > results back to Apache. > > Better go to PHP for webmail applications. Squirlmail is a good one. It > works with postfix. squirrelmail is pretty much the standard for small scale stuff, it's pretty minimalist though. Roundcube I hear good things about, all ajaxy and such, same functionality as squirrelmail. Horde is a framework/portal type setup built around email, calendaring etc., groupware type stuff, and pretty widely used. Each of those is php based. They will easily work with tomcat via mod_proxy_ajp and "ProxyPass /squirrelmail !" (the ! tells apache not to pass the path to tomcat but serve it itself). There's no reason you can't run your webapp with tomcat, and mail apache+php (this is a very common setup). Really, it's about choosing the best solution to the problem you are trying to address. For most it is easier to use one of the php mail solutions above, but for others, finding or writing their own java webmail would be better. Depends on what your intent is. The question then is, what are the particular goals that you have in mind? Is this a personal learning project or are you setting up a site for someone. Is it a private site or public etc.? Defining those things ahead of time will keep you from going down the path of choosing a language or framework and discovering after months of development that there is a better alternative. Perhaps one that could have saved you 2 months development time but that wasn't considered because the goals of the project and needed functionality weren't important factors back in the beginning pool of possible applications. Figure out what you need first, then pick something that's approximately (or perfectly) suited to that. Of course if what you need is to play around with tomcat, then by all means, go nuts with trying every .war that you come across. My $0.02 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 02:39:06 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:39:06 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <49652F44.4030609-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> Message-ID: <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >>> Of course, then I tried ubuntu 8.10 with **KDE4... and thus far - >>> while it looks "prettier" - the broken functionality over KDE3 tends >>> to lead to think that even Linux, at least in terms of the UI, is far >>> from faultless in this regard. >> >> KDE != Linux >> >> If KDE4 doesn't work for you, you can use another DM/WM or whatever. > > That's obvious to most people here, but not the point of the critique. > > KDE4 was shipped by Ubuntu/Kubuntu (in preference to sticking with KDE3) > as part of a non-beta version of a major distribution. This distribution > is being recommended and given to people who may be new to Linux or > unfamiliar with the available alternatives (let alone the methods > required to enable them). In this environment, even us old-timers are > seeing that KDE4.1 is just not up to the task. And if experienced users > are having some frustrations, newcomers will have them tenfold. > > The inclusion of KDE4 in Kubuntu 8.10 indicates a serious QC problem > within the ubuntu community. For release 8.04 KDE4 was made available as > a non-default option. In retrospect that policy should have been > maintained for 8.10, a view that is not mitigated by the availability of > GNOME as an option. You're blaming the wrong party. It's not a KDE problem. It's a Kubuntu problem. Ubuntu is a GNOME distro. Kubuntu is a valiant effort but ultimately, it falls short. The hype surrounding K/Ubuntu is unjustified. The enthusiasm of its fans is quite something and the fact that magazines have sprung up targeting Ubuntu in particular is amazing but this is definitely a triumph of marketing over technology. There is nothing special about K/Ubuntu. It's less than meets the eye. People talk about how easy it is to install but all the modern distros are quite easy to install. I've tried KDE 4 on the latest Mandriva, which seems to be a distro dying an unfortunate and slow death, Fedora, and OpenSuse and have found that they all beat Kubuntu in terms of polish by a mile. The "gamerz" look that you mentioned is not present on Mandriva and can easily be changed. It's just a theme. This is like the pointless and stupid debates people have over whether the default desktop background in Hardy is ugly or not. It takes seconds to change so who cares if it's ugly? (Not that I think it is.) I have been working on deploying Linux in a small school and originally, I was going to deploy Kubuntu Hardy. I gave them the option of GNOME but they preferred KDE because it seemed more familiar to them. That suited me fine since I'm a long-time KDE user and I have developed PyKDE and PyQt apps so I know something about the underpinnings of KDE. As much as I tried to coerce Kubuntu Hardy into doing the sorts of things I wanted, like kickstart deployments, system configuration management using cfengine, FreeIPA for directory and authentication services, it was usually a case of "you can't get there from here". Kickstart is half-baked on K/Ubuntu. Preseed is the preferred mechanism and aside from being more complex, it's just not as well-documented as Kickstart. I couldn't get even the simplest cfengine script to work on Hardy and thought I was doing something wrong until I tried it on Fedora 10 where it worked immediately. Couple that with the mysterious and annoying problem with kdm coming up in the wrong resolution for the monitor and only syncing properly after a Ctrl-Alt-Bs, I had enough. I can't expect ordinary users to put up with such nonsense. I've always had a soft spot for Mandriva but I can no longer recommend it since it really isn't a community distro at all. It's driven by a sickly company that seems to have no idea of how to profit from open-source, not that doing so is an easy thing. Mandriva has some great technology but many things I care about are neglected, such as Mandriva Directory Server and LTSP support. Laying off key employees like Oden Eriksson, who are responsible for thousands of packages, is also not exactly confidence-inspiring. That left Fedora, CentOS, and OpenSuse as options. I'm comfortable with Fedora and CentOS and less so with OpenSuse. OpenSuse has come a long way and it is an impressive distro but the way they do things is different enough that given my time constraints, I can't deploy it. That left Fedora or CentOS. KDE 4 on Fedora 9 was unusable, not to mention that like OpenSuse and CentOS, it didn't like the Intel Q965 graphics chipset that are on many of the machines at the school. On reboot, sometimes the monitor would be dark and I'd lose control of the keyboard and mouse and couldn't even ssh into the machine. The only thing that worked was a hard reset. Fedora 10 changed all that. I now have a stable and functional KDE 4 that I can deploy via kickstart, manage with cfengine, and authenticate against FreeIPA. Now if I could only get kiosktool to work in KDE 3 or 4, I'd be happy. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 02:41:02 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:41:02 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901071701g781f723ck605832181c2f5e80-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <3a97ef0901071701g781f723ck605832181c2f5e80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496567BE.9040604@dinamis.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > In 8.10 the ability to stick with KDE3 disappeared as well, so anyone > upgrading and wanting the other good things about Intrepid also have > to eat the not-so-good things that happen when moving to KDE4. What are these "good things" that one would miss? > Of course KDE isn't Linux, but it is one of the two bigger contenders > in terms of WM/DM. Certainly I could have continued to update my own > kernels etc (usually do anyhow) to keep my drivers up-to-date while > sticking with Hardy, but really the whole thing seems to be something > of a debacle. If the kernel in Hardy is working, what is the point of "updating" to a newer kernel? It seems to me your reasons for complaining about KDE 4 are pretty flimsy, just like they are for the majority of people whining about KDE 4. > Of course I could also have switched distros entirely, but I've been > through that before and it's generally not worth the headache. > Hopefully KDE4/Ubuntu will grow post these little hiccups sometime > soon, but it would have been nice if the change hadn't been quite so > *forced*. Sigh... no one "forced" you to "upgrade" to Intrepid. Did Hardy stop working? No. Can you still get support for Hardy? Yes. Are there other distros that give you the choice of running KDE 3? Yes, though KDE 3 is really only on maintenance now and will not be upgraded. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 03:27:05 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:27:05 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4965674A.7020201-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <49657289.60108@telly.org> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> The inclusion of KDE4 in Kubuntu 8.10 indicates a serious QC problem >> within the ubuntu community. For release 8.04 KDE4 was made available as >> a non-default option. In retrospect that policy should have been >> maintained for 8.10, a view that is not mitigated by the availability of >> GNOME as an option. >> > > You're blaming the wrong party. It's not a KDE problem. It's a Kubuntu > problem. Isn't that what I said above? I generally have no qualms with the KDE folks; while I am still unclear of the new infatuation with desktop widgets there is a feel that soon enough it will make sense. But it needs more widgets and functionality that I was common in KDE3 needs to be restored before they can move forward. Are these KDE or Kubuntu problems? Being able to right-click on an archive file and extract to a subdirectory broke between KDE3 and KDE4 because the supporting features were temporarily removed from the KDE4 version of Ark. That's not something that can be fixed by Ubuntu alone. I used to be able to right-click on a video file, select "properties", and find out its codecs and run-time. Also gone. The problems that have aggravated me are not in the choice of theme or icon set. They're basic functions, appreciated in Kubuntu using KDE3, that vanished using Kubuntu with KDE4. I also have spots of the bottom panel occasionally flickering or completely disappearing until I move the mouse pointer over them. KDE problem or Kubuntu? Doesn't matter. New users who encounter them will blame "Linux" and run back to XP or Vista or maybe Macs. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 06:41:23 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 01:41:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux has driven me to buy Windows Vista In-Reply-To: References: <20090105184712.GA29631@watson-wilson.ca> <20090105185320.GA29855@watson-wilson.ca> <496258BB.2080706@rogers.com> <20090105190409.GA30185@watson-wilson.ca> <20090106102323.39b5d445@teksavvy.com> <20090106154126.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4963822B.80001@rogers.com> <49638BB4.7080909@alteeve.com> <20090106121044.7ef2c0c2@teksavvy.com> <20090107113651.GA1947@localhost> <3a97ef0901070730x58b108b1i11bba84a825e5447@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | | From: Tyler Aviss | | Best emulators for 'nix: | | Zsnes on 'nix is pretty good for most games. I believe you're still | | legit if you own the original carts. | | No, this would not be legit in a strict reading of copyright legislation. | | I do think that it would be unethical and immoral to do so. I said the reverse of what I meant in this last sentence. Thanks, Evan, for catching that. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 14:14:30 2009 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:14:30 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49660A46.2020502@totaltravelmarketing.com> Kamran Khan wrote: > After 7 years of Linux being my primary desktop operating system at > home(I tinkered with Linux since the Walnut Creek days) I jumped to a > MacBook with Leopard. OS X is basically BSD UNIX with nice candy on top > so you all the command tools that I came to love in UNIX and Linux are > pretty much available. OS X has better support for hardware, especially > gadgets like cell phones and cameras. Not as much as Windows but more > then Linux and major vendors like Nokia release their software natively > for OS X. OS X has better support for games, some of the big games are > native on OS X and of course there is Wine and Cedega. OS X has much > better integration between its applications like iCal and mail.app. > Lastly, overall OS X is more "polished" then Linux. Linux as server > operating system is excellent but when you move closer and closer to end > user applications you see a lack of refinement, lack of polish, > sometimes a lot of instability and very poor integration. The > fasciation of getting things to work with Linux has long since passed > and when I buy a printer I pretty much just want to plug it in. You pay > a big premium for what is essentially PC hardware but so far it has > proven to be the best desktop os I can find. So long Linux, see you on > embedded devices everywhere. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I stick to Suse or Fedora, I have no need for games or fancy software or hardware, OS X is supported by a multimillion company who better have good support for their own devices or they wouldn't have that kind of money coming in Hey , I have worked with X and I don't find it usable for my personal needs as is the case for most hardcores in this list, if OS X suits you better, all the best -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 15:07:53 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:07:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: New KDE (was: Re:Linux drove me to get a Mac) In-Reply-To: <4964CDD5.7020906-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4964CDD5.7020906@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <165901.56917.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I am using KDE3 on Ubuntu 8.04 at work and Ubuntu 7.10 at home. I got no problems. Part of the reason may be I don't install and uninstall games :-) I use virtual machines to test new programs before I install them.EK --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Madison Kelly wrote: From: Madison Kelly Subject: New KDE (was: Re: [TLUG]: Linux drove me to get a Mac) To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Received: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 10:44 AM Tyler Aviss wrote: > ** Has anyone else tried KDE4? I'd love to swap notes and try to sort > out the big annoyance it's become. Indirectly, yes. I've used Kate for some time now for programming (under Gnome). Until 8/04, it never *once* crashed on me. Now, under 8.10, it's crashed countless times. Nothing else on my system has though. The only reason I still use it is that I can't find a Gnome equivalent. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 15:22:04 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:22:04 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <49653C14.20409-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20090105235025.GZ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <49653C14.20409@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <49661A1C.8040507@utoronto.ca> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: >> On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> Well rogers cable can be very fast (downstream). Of course there is >>> the dynamic IP (although it rarely changes) and the ban on running >>> servers and such, which teksavvy doesn't have. And you can get blocks >>> of static IPs on teksavvy. >> ... and Rogers blocks SMTP port... > > They don't with the "business" service, not that it's worth anything > since many servers will reject mail originating from stmp servers on the > Rogers domain anyway. You shouldn't be rejecting Rogers on this basis. > Though TekSavvy will give you a static IP, I have no idea if they will > do reverse DNS for your domain. Without a reverse DNS, your mail will be > rejected by some servers, most of which you can't ignore. You can always > relay through your ISP's smtp server, though Rogers requires that you > "register" each of your email addresses with Yahoo before allowing that > (the better to spam you). I just heard back from TekSavvy support after asking about it for my ip, with a static IP they'll set rdns for you. Quoting: "As long as you've got a static IP with us, we can certainly set the rDNS to whatever you'd like, within reason." Fun! Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 15:41:57 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:41:57 -0500 Subject: Tomcat Based Webmail In-Reply-To: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> Message-ID: <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 08:18:35PM -0500, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > I cant help but be impressed by slew of Tomcat applications that are so well > written. Is there a central repository of Tomcat applications? > > Also, is there a tomcat webmail application? Well no idea there, since I simply avoid anything to do with java on principle. Don't forget to prepare to have 10times the hardware resources available of what something like php would reuqire to do the same job. All I ever see from tomcat (and other java servers) is awfully slow service. Bell canada's web site is one of the worst I have tried to deal with. The world will be a better place when java is banned from use. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 15:45:36 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:45:36 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <49652ADD.2050505-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4963AC89.7070802@dinamis.com> <49652ADD.2050505@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20090108154536.GM29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 05:21:17PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > You could go with 2 DSL connections and mlppp, that circumvents any > throttling, and gives you decent redundancy considering the tree problem > you've noted. Perhaps acanac and teksavvy, combined it'd still be less > than some of rogers' offerings too ;) You can only use mlppp when both links terminate in the same place. Load balancing and such is tricky stuff and not something you can trivially do with home internet links. You pretty much need routeable static IPs which are not cheap. Also all the connections seem to go through the same trees in this case. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 15:47:29 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:47:29 -0500 Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: References: <20090105235025.GZ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090108154729.GN29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 06:25:40PM -0500, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > So, for something in ADSL level of performance in Toronto suburb > (Markham), it is only Rogers Cable or ADSL, right? :-) Yeah pretty much. > BTW, I know someone who in-fact use satelite Internet. So it is > still there. I heard his complains about how the connection gone > when the weather is bad. :-) Yeah water seems bad for satelite signals. > Ah, yes 3web still around. But I heard so many bad experiences > about them, including some personal close friends. Are they any > better now? I don't get the impression that they are. > ... and Rogers blocks SMTP port... Yes they do, as does Bell and a number of other providers. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 16:18:02 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:18:02 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <49652F44.4030609-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090108161802.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jan 07, 2009 at 05:40:04PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > That's obvious to most people here, but not the point of the critique. > > KDE4 was shipped by Ubuntu/Kubuntu (in preference to sticking with KDE3) > as part of a non-beta version of a major distribution. This distribution > is being recommended and given to people who may be new to Linux or > unfamiliar with the available alternatives (let alone the methods > required to enable them). In this environment, even us old-timers are > seeing that KDE4.1 is just not up to the task. And if experienced users > are having some frustrations, newcomers will have them tenfold. And Debian Lenny will ship with KDE 3.5, not KDE 4. I guess at least Debian realizes KDE4 is nowhere near ready for use. > The inclusion of KDE4 in Kubuntu 8.10 indicates a serious QC problem > within the ubuntu community. For release 8.04 KDE4 was made available as > a non-default option. In retrospect that policy should have been > maintained for 8.10, a view that is not mitigated by the availability of > GNOME as an option. That's not exactly news. I remember a year or two ago, a minor update broke the X server on a lot of machines. It simply comes down to one thing: Fixed release dates causes garbage releases, and ubuntu is no exception. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 17:04:07 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:04:07 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <496567BE.9040604-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <3a97ef0901071701g781f723ck605832181c2f5e80@mail.gmail.com> <496567BE.9040604@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901080904pd775599vf7ab9dc13e680570@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 9:41 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> In 8.10 the ability to stick with KDE3 disappeared as well, so anyone >> upgrading and wanting the other good things about Intrepid also have >> to eat the not-so-good things that happen when moving to KDE4. > > What are these "good things" that one would miss? > >> Of course KDE isn't Linux, but it is one of the two bigger contenders >> in terms of WM/DM. Certainly I could have continued to update my own >> kernels etc (usually do anyhow) to keep my drivers up-to-date while >> sticking with Hardy, but really the whole thing seems to be something >> of a debacle. > > If the kernel in Hardy is working, what is the point of "updating" to a > newer kernel? It seems to me your reasons for complaining about KDE 4 > are pretty flimsy, just like they are for the majority of people whining > about KDE 4. > There were a few apps which weren't available in hardy (or at least not in a version I needed), as well as bugfixes, etc. For users who can't roll their own kernels, sometimes there's a need to go with the newer distro version as well (I know that my laptop had major issues with hardy and the default available kernels due to an ACPI bug which forced a thermal shutdown). The latter wasn't an issue for me as I know how to disable ACPI on-boot and roll my own kernel, but I saw a *lot* of others who had issues dealing with this. >> Of course I could also have switched distros entirely, but I've been >> through that before and it's generally not worth the headache. >> Hopefully KDE4/Ubuntu will grow post these little hiccups sometime >> soon, but it would have been nice if the change hadn't been quite so >> *forced*. > > Sigh... no one "forced" you to "upgrade" to Intrepid. Did Hardy stop > working? No. Can you still get support for Hardy? Yes. Are there other > distros that give you the choice of running KDE 3? Yes, though KDE 3 is > really only on maintenance now and will not be upgraded. As mentioned. No, Hardy worked, but there were some things I needed/wanted from Intrepid, and unfortunately that meant having to use KDE4. As for the email addressing it as a "Kubuntu" issue and not a KDE issue, that's hard for me to say because as of yet I haven't run any other distros with KDE4. I have, however, seen plenty of people complaining about similar issues online, and many were Suse/FC users. A few of the annoyances currently include: - Multi-depth start-menu folders don't seem to work properly, or kmenuedit is broken in terms of saving the menus (seems to be a KDE4 thing) - Issues with the accelerated functions and FMV, which do vary by card, but I didn't have such issues with other 3d-GUI related projects such as "Beryl" or "Compiz". Either a KDE4 thing or possibly an issue with the newer Xorg/driver versions that also updated at the same time - The network-manager-kde applet no longer seems to work properly with VPN's (OpenVPN), and puts weird duplicate entries of my wireless interfaces - Various KIO-slaves not working quite right just yet (may be Kubuntu) - Missing Quick-Launcher applet (may be a Kubuntu thing, I've been trying to find this applet online to install manual) - Substantial changes to the overall control-panel etc. Some things appear to be missing, but they might just have moved somewhere I can't find them - Major issues with icons from various apps, especially the tray icons which get gibbled even with the stuff coming with KDE - User-enabled tray docking seems not to work properly One of the nice things about FOSS projects like this is that they do tend to "evolve" fairly quickly with user feedback, so I'd imagine that a lot of the little annoyances will be tidied up over time. One must take the new with the old, but that doesn't mean we must give up our right to grumble about it :-) - TJA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 17:40:36 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:40:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <20090108154536.GM29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4963AC89.7070802@dinamis.com> <49652ADD.2050505@utoronto.ca> <20090108154536.GM29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jan 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Load balancing and such is tricky stuff and not something you can > trivially do with home internet links. You pretty much need routeable > static IPs which are not cheap. I used iproute2 to load balanced my home net connection between Cybersurf DSL (static IP) and Rogers Cable (DHCP) for years. Infact I only got rid of it last month. The only reason I had a static address on even one of the links was because I was running servers in the home. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 18:09:02 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:09:02 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <49657289.60108-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> Message-ID: <4966413E.6090607@dinamis.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >>> The inclusion of KDE4 in Kubuntu 8.10 indicates a serious QC problem >>> within the ubuntu community. For release 8.04 KDE4 was made available as >>> a non-default option. In retrospect that policy should have been >>> maintained for 8.10, a view that is not mitigated by the availability of >>> GNOME as an option. >>> >> >> You're blaming the wrong party. It's not a KDE problem. It's a Kubuntu >> problem. > Isn't that what I said above? I generally have no qualms with the KDE > folks; while I am still unclear of the new infatuation with desktop > widgets there is a feel that soon enough it will make sense. But it needs > more widgets and functionality that I was common in KDE3 needs > to be restored before they can move forward. KDE 4 is a very ambitious project the benefits of which will take some time to see. The ability to target OS X and Windows with KDE 4 apps seems like a huge win to me. I'm not big on the desktop widgets either since I don't usually see my desktop anyway but that's just me. Some people apparently like them. > Are these KDE or Kubuntu problems? > > Being able to right-click on an archive file and extract to a subdirectory > broke between KDE3 and KDE4 because the supporting features were > temporarily removed from the KDE4 version of Ark. That's not something > that can be fixed by Ubuntu alone. I generally use the shell for that so I don't miss what I don't use. > I used to be able to right-click on a video file, select "properties", and > find out its codecs and run-time. Also gone. Can't you use the KDE 3 version of the app in question in KDE 4? > The problems that have aggravated me are not in the choice of theme > or icon set. They're basic functions, appreciated in Kubuntu using KDE3, > that vanished using Kubuntu with KDE4. I'll repeat the question I asked Tyler, "Why 'upgrade'?" If you insist on running Kubuntu, what's wrong with continuing to run Hardy with KDE 3.5.10, other than the usual Kubuntu problems? "What Kubuntu problems?", you ask. For instance, the most recent Firefox update on the Kubuntu machine I'm using now caused the Firefox icon in the Quick Launcher applet in the kicker panel to change into a generic icon. There is no obvious way to change the icon. I could remove it and add it but if it behaves anything like the other Kubuntu machines, I'll have a HUGE Firefox icon next to the small icons for all the other apps with no way to change the size of that icon so I'm leaving it alone for now. It's a minor annoyance but an annoyance all the same. For the school, I found iTalc . If iTalc is installed and I log into KDE 3, I'll get one dialogue after another telling me port 5800 is in use. If I log into GNOME, no problem. EduBuntu is based on GNOME so it has presumably been tested with it. It obviously has never been tested with KDE. Playing "Whack-a-Mole" with 20 dialogue windows that pop up rapidly is very annoying. Another choice one: I did an "apt-get install netbeans", accepted the dependencies and then attempted to run NetBeans. On startup, it tells me "Warning - could not install module JPDA Debugger API JPDA Debugger API - This module requires JDKHOME/lib/tools.jar to be accessible. This file was not found. Usually this means you are trying to run the IDE with the JRE instead of the full JDK. If so, please use the --jdkhome command line option to specify a JDK installation." So why would the much-vaunted apt install NetBeans with a JRE instead of the JDK, if in fact this is the problem? > I also have spots of the bottom panel occasionally flickering or completely > disappearing until I move the mouse pointer over them. KDE problem or > Kubuntu? Doesn't matter. New users who encounter them will blame > "Linux" and run back to XP or Vista or maybe Macs. I don't see that in Fedora or OpenSuse so it could be a Kubuntu problem or just a problem with the version of KDE 4 used in Intrepid. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 18:45:20 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:45:20 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4966413E.6090607-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> <4966413E.6090607@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901081045m51257e3eva8c5eb21170e6a7@mail.gmail.com> "Why 'upgrade'?" If you insist on running Kubuntu, what's wrong with continuing to run Hardy with KDE 3.5.10, other than the usual Kubuntu problems?" As mentioned, there were issues with a bunch of apps (not necessarily KDE apps though) that seem to be fixed up in Intrepid. Unfortunately that's brought forth a bunch of new issues with Intrepid+KDE4. You can't take one without the other though, as as KDE3 is being phased out anyhow I figured I'd take the plunge. I was expecting more of a "different" as opposed to missing/broken functionality that I've been experiencing thus far though. Anyone on the list use Gentoo? I've always wanted to try that out so maybe I'll have more luck, though in many cases it'll likely be trading one type of frustration for another, at least I've got a fast machine to compile on now :-) - TJA On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 1:09 PM, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >>>> The inclusion of KDE4 in Kubuntu 8.10 indicates a serious QC problem >>>> within the ubuntu community. For release 8.04 KDE4 was made available as >>>> a non-default option. In retrospect that policy should have been >>>> maintained for 8.10, a view that is not mitigated by the availability of >>>> GNOME as an option. >>>> >>> >>> You're blaming the wrong party. It's not a KDE problem. It's a Kubuntu >>> problem. >> Isn't that what I said above? I generally have no qualms with the KDE >> folks; while I am still unclear of the new infatuation with desktop >> widgets there is a feel that soon enough it will make sense. But it needs >> more widgets and functionality that I was common in KDE3 needs >> to be restored before they can move forward. > > KDE 4 is a very ambitious project the benefits of which will take some > time to see. The ability to target OS X and Windows with KDE 4 apps > seems like a huge win to me. I'm not big on the desktop widgets either > since I don't usually see my desktop anyway but that's just me. Some > people apparently like them. > >> Are these KDE or Kubuntu problems? >> >> Being able to right-click on an archive file and extract to a subdirectory >> broke between KDE3 and KDE4 because the supporting features were >> temporarily removed from the KDE4 version of Ark. That's not something >> that can be fixed by Ubuntu alone. > > I generally use the shell for that so I don't miss what I don't use. > >> I used to be able to right-click on a video file, select "properties", and >> find out its codecs and run-time. Also gone. > > Can't you use the KDE 3 version of the app in question in KDE 4? > >> The problems that have aggravated me are not in the choice of theme >> or icon set. They're basic functions, appreciated in Kubuntu using KDE3, >> that vanished using Kubuntu with KDE4. > > I'll repeat the question I asked Tyler, "Why 'upgrade'?" If you insist > on running Kubuntu, what's wrong with continuing to run Hardy with KDE > 3.5.10, other than the usual Kubuntu problems? > > "What Kubuntu problems?", you ask. For instance, the most recent Firefox > update on the Kubuntu machine I'm using now caused the Firefox icon in > the Quick Launcher applet in the kicker panel to change into a generic > icon. There is no obvious way to change the icon. I could remove it and > add it but if it behaves anything like the other Kubuntu machines, I'll > have a HUGE Firefox icon next to the small icons for all the other apps > with no way to change the size of that icon so I'm leaving it alone for > now. It's a minor annoyance but an annoyance all the same. > > For the school, I found iTalc . If iTalc > is installed and I log into KDE 3, I'll get one dialogue after another > telling me port 5800 is in use. If I log into GNOME, no problem. > EduBuntu is based on GNOME so it has presumably been tested with it. It > obviously has never been tested with KDE. Playing "Whack-a-Mole" with 20 > dialogue windows that pop up rapidly is very annoying. > > Another choice one: I did an "apt-get install netbeans", accepted the > dependencies and then attempted to run NetBeans. On startup, it tells me > "Warning - could not install module JPDA Debugger API > JPDA Debugger API - This module requires JDKHOME/lib/tools.jar to be > accessible. This file was not found. Usually this means you are trying > to run the IDE with the JRE instead of the full JDK. If so, please use > the --jdkhome command line option to specify a JDK installation." So why > would the much-vaunted apt install NetBeans with a JRE instead of the > JDK, if in fact this is the problem? > >> I also have spots of the bottom panel occasionally flickering or completely >> disappearing until I move the mouse pointer over them. KDE problem or >> Kubuntu? Doesn't matter. New users who encounter them will blame >> "Linux" and run back to XP or Vista or maybe Macs. > > I don't see that in Fedora or OpenSuse so it could be a Kubuntu problem > or just a problem with the version of KDE 4 used in Intrepid. > -- > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay > Dinamis > 1419-3266 Yonge St. > Toronto, ON > Canada M4N 3P6 > > > +1 416-410-3326 > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 19:38:17 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:38:17 -0800 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901081045m51257e3eva8c5eb21170e6a7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> <4966413E.6090607@dinamis.com> <3a97ef0901081045m51257e3eva8c5eb21170e6a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420901081138x1b688f64nd0989f643ee48b25@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Anyone on the list use Gentoo? I've always wanted to try that out so > maybe I'll have more luck, though in many cases it'll likely be > trading one type of frustration for another, at least I've got a fast > machine to compile on now :-) I use Gentoo and I think you're right that you'd be trading in frustrations. I really like Gentoo's package manager but the limited experience I've had with Debian (it might have been a Debian derivative) is that apt is at least as good, with the added benefit of installing precompiled binaries so Apache takes seconds to install instead of tens of minutes, and OO.o _also_ takes seconds to install (post-download) instead of hours. I'm still running Gentoo mostly out of convenience--I think it would be inconvenient to migrate to a new distribution when the one I'm running basically works. I only have one machine at home and it's loaded up with gigabytes of personal data--things like wedding and honeymoon pictures, financial records, and the source code to the real-time OS I built in university that I'd love to play with again "one day". I'm sure it's possible to migrate my system "in place", but I get discouraged into inaction every time I consider how much planning and backing up I'd need to do to make sure I don't lose anything and then consider the fact that the system works as-is. I think Gentoo is based on a neat idea but it's not executed as well as it might be. Portage (the package manager and its associated repository of packages) occasionally breaks in mysterious ways. It gives you the flexibility to build a mostly-custom distribution without the hassle of Linux-from-Scratch, but that flexibility comes with an associated cost: chances are close to zero that anyone else has the same configuration. The community is generally pretty good, so it's often possible to find solutions on the Gentoo forums, but the quality has declined since I first started using Gentoo in ~2002, so I don't recommend the forums as heartily as a I used to. Also, the dev community seems to be hit-and-miss. Many packages are pretty well maintained, but others not so much, and the "others" are not always obscure packages. Running Gentoo taught me more about managing a Linux-based PC than any other single factor, so by no means do I regret choosing it. My interest in tinkering has waned considerably since I graduated university, got married, and started a real career. My next fresh install of Linux will probably be Debian, or maybe one of its derivatives. I'd like to leverage other people's compile farms, and a dev team with a real dedication to quality control. I think Gentoo is best suited to applications like scientific compute farms where you can create your own dedicated compile farm that pushes binaries to the rest of the network and where the ability to turn compile flags on and off on a package-by-package basis is worth the effort. Burning cycles on compiling doesn't make any sense to me anymore (it always seemed dubious, but I've finally chosen a side of the fence). I still like the ideas behind Portage but, as I said, apt is pretty damn good, too, and Portage seems to suffer from some implementation flaws that limit its ability to meet its potential. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 19:42:15 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:42:15 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4966413E.6090607-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> <4966413E.6090607@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <49665717.6050109@telly.org> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> Being able to right-click on an archive file and extract to a subdirectory >> broke between KDE3 and KDE4 because the supporting features were >> temporarily removed from the KDE4 version of Ark. That's not something >> that can be fixed by Ubuntu alone. >> > > I generally use the shell for that so I don't miss what I don't use. > FWIW, I followed the instructions to upgrade to Kubuntu KDE 4.1.85 (which is the designation for 4.2 Beta 2); it has solved some problems and hasn't appeared to create any new ones. http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2-beta-2 >> I used to be able to right-click on a video file, select "properties", and >> find out its codecs and run-time. Also gone. >> > > Can't you use the KDE 3 version of the app in question in KDE 4? > Dolphin, the new file manager into which much new effort has gone, is a KDE4 effort. The version backported to KDE3, D3lphin (now officially orphaned), misses much functionality. I am, really happy to have "tree" view back in my file manager. As for the way to have KDE reveal metadata in its file-properties displays, I have no idea which "app" does this. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 20:07:28 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:07:28 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <7ac602420901081138x1b688f64nd0989f643ee48b25-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> <4966413E.6090607@dinamis.com> <3a97ef0901081045m51257e3eva8c5eb21170e6a7@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420901081138x1b688f64nd0989f643ee48b25@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49665D00.7090804@utoronto.ca> Ian Petersen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Anyone on the list use Gentoo? I've always wanted to try that out so >> maybe I'll have more luck, though in many cases it'll likely be >> trading one type of frustration for another, at least I've got a fast >> machine to compile on now :-) > > I use Gentoo and I think you're right that you'd be trading in > frustrations. I really like Gentoo's package manager but the limited > experience I've had with Debian (it might have been a Debian > derivative) is that apt is at least as good, with the added benefit of > installing precompiled binaries so Apache takes seconds to install > instead of tens of minutes, and OO.o _also_ takes seconds to install > (post-download) instead of hours. > > I'm still running Gentoo mostly out of convenience--I think it would > be inconvenient to migrate to a new distribution when the one I'm > running basically works. I only have one machine at home and it's > loaded up with gigabytes of personal data--things like wedding and > honeymoon pictures, financial records, and the source code to the > real-time OS I built in university that I'd love to play with again > "one day". I'm sure it's possible to migrate my system "in place", > but I get discouraged into inaction every time I consider how much > planning and backing up I'd need to do to make sure I don't lose > anything and then consider the fact that the system works as-is. > > I think Gentoo is based on a neat idea but it's not executed as well > as it might be. Portage (the package manager and its associated > repository of packages) occasionally breaks in mysterious ways. It > gives you the flexibility to build a mostly-custom distribution > without the hassle of Linux-from-Scratch, but that flexibility comes > with an associated cost: chances are close to zero that anyone else > has the same configuration. The community is generally pretty good, > so it's often possible to find solutions on the Gentoo forums, but the > quality has declined since I first started using Gentoo in ~2002, so I > don't recommend the forums as heartily as a I used to. Also, the dev > community seems to be hit-and-miss. Many packages are pretty well > maintained, but others not so much, and the "others" are not always > obscure packages. > > Running Gentoo taught me more about managing a Linux-based PC than any > other single factor, so by no means do I regret choosing it. My > interest in tinkering has waned considerably since I graduated > university, got married, and started a real career. My next fresh > install of Linux will probably be Debian, or maybe one of its > derivatives. I'd like to leverage other people's compile farms, and a > dev team with a real dedication to quality control. I think Gentoo is > best suited to applications like scientific compute farms where you > can create your own dedicated compile farm that pushes binaries to the > rest of the network and where the ability to turn compile flags on and > off on a package-by-package basis is worth the effort. Burning cycles > on compiling doesn't make any sense to me anymore (it always seemed > dubious, but I've finally chosen a side of the fence). I still like > the ideas behind Portage but, as I said, apt is pretty damn good, too, > and Portage seems to suffer from some implementation flaws that limit > its ability to meet its potential. I think that you'll find that for 99% of what you're after, debian's binaries are fine. For pushing out stuff to a compile farm with different flags, simply using export CFLAGS on a per package/machine basis should be no trouble. Building via a quick script to export your desired compiler flags, then run something like "apt-get build-dep apache2-mpm-prefork && apt-get -b source apache2-mpm-prefork" would be all you need to get the same desired effect as with emerge, all bundled into a nicely redistributable .deb (ok pbuilder or checkinstall is better for that, but it illustrates a point). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 20:17:44 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:17:44 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <49665717.6050109-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> <4966413E.6090607@dinamis.com> <49665717.6050109@telly.org> Message-ID: <49665F68.1040900@dinamis.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Dolphin, the new file manager into which much new effort has gone, is a > KDE4 effort. The version backported to KDE3, D3lphin (now officially > orphaned), misses much functionality. I am, really happy to have "tree" > view back in my file manager. > > As for the way to have KDE reveal metadata in its file-properties > displays, I have no idea which "app" does this. What about good old Konqueror? It still works as a file manager. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 20:17:31 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:17:31 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901081045m51257e3eva8c5eb21170e6a7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> <4966413E.6090607@dinamis.com> <3a97ef0901081045m51257e3eva8c5eb21170e6a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49665F5B.8050407@dinamis.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Anyone on the list use Gentoo? I've always wanted to try that out so > maybe I'll have more luck, though in many cases it'll likely be > trading one type of frustration for another, at least I've got a fast > machine to compile on now :-) I ran Gentoo for a while. I really wanted to like it but ended up ditching it eventually when the promise of in-place rolling upgrades proved to be more trouble than it was worth. It was during a glibc upgrade that I finally threw in the towel on Gentoo. Searching the docs revealed that with a change that big, the safest thing to do was to just do a "nuke 'n pave", which obviates one of the purported advantages of Gentoo. Rolling upgrades as promoted by Debian and Gentoo are quite appealing in theory but I think in practice, especially on desktop systems which typically have many more packages installed and more points of potential breakage, they're problematic. I know Len is going to argue that he has been carrying forward his Debian since Paleolithic times but that really doesn't have much appeal for me any more. I'd rather be able to script the installation and do a fresh install when I need to in order to get the machine into a known good state. I think a combination of scripted install, be it kickstart, preseed, autoyast, whatever, and a configuration management tool like cfengine, puppet, or bcfg2 with configuration files under version control is the way to go. I think rolling upgrades are seen as desirable because most people manage their systems in an ad hoc manner, a tweak here, a fiddle there and pretty soon, their system is so highly-customized that rebuilding it from scratch becomes a Herculean effort. As long as the rolling upgrade works flawlessly, which it very well might in many cases, all is well. When it breaks though, you're going to spend more time recovering from that mess than you would have had you used a more disciplined approach of scripted install, configuration management, and revision control of configurations. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 20:25:25 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:25:25 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <49665F5B.8050407-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> <4966413E.6090607@dinamis.com> <3a97ef0901081045m51257e3eva8c5eb21170e6a7@mail.gmail.com> <49665F5B.8050407@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <49666135.2060404@utoronto.ca> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Anyone on the list use Gentoo? I've always wanted to try that out so >> maybe I'll have more luck, though in many cases it'll likely be >> trading one type of frustration for another, at least I've got a fast >> machine to compile on now :-) > > I ran Gentoo for a while. I really wanted to like it but ended up > ditching it eventually when the promise of in-place rolling upgrades > proved to be more trouble than it was worth. It was during a glibc > upgrade that I finally threw in the towel on Gentoo. Searching the docs > revealed that with a change that big, the safest thing to do was to just > do a "nuke 'n pave", which obviates one of the purported advantages of > Gentoo. Rolling upgrades as promoted by Debian and Gentoo are quite > appealing in theory but I think in practice, especially on desktop > systems which typically have many more packages installed and more > points of potential breakage, they're problematic. I know Len is going > to argue that he has been carrying forward his Debian since Paleolithic > times but that really doesn't have much appeal for me any more. I'd > rather be able to script the installation and do a fresh install when I > need to in order to get the machine into a known good state. I think a > combination of scripted install, be it kickstart, preseed, autoyast, > whatever, and a configuration management tool like cfengine, puppet, or > bcfg2 with configuration files under version control is the way to go. > > I think rolling upgrades are seen as desirable because most people > manage their systems in an ad hoc manner, a tweak here, a fiddle there > and pretty soon, their system is so highly-customized that rebuilding it > from scratch becomes a Herculean effort. As long as the rolling upgrade > works flawlessly, which it very well might in many cases, all is well. > When it breaks though, you're going to spend more time recovering from > that mess than you would have had you used a more disciplined approach > of scripted install, configuration management, and revision control of > configurations. dpkg --get-selections and dpkg --set-selections will let you do a fresh install and then grab whatever the previous system (where you did get-selections) had marked as installed. And aptitude dist-upgrade between releases is absolutely a joy to work with, on a desktop, laptop, server etc. I haven't run into a problem yet using aptitude and etch when it was still the testing release. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 20:39:40 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:39:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: <4963AC89.7070802-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4963AC89.7070802@dinamis.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jan 2009, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Both have been quite reliable but Rogers in particular has > been annoying me. They charge a premium and have the audacity > to arbitrarily change the terms of service by imposing > bandwidth caps. Bell did the same thing with their Internet service. > I'll take door number three, a new provider, thanks. While I'm > at it, I figured I'd look at everything, phone, mobile, > Internet, and TV. Well, thanks for sharing! > 3Web's tech support seems dodgy from what I've read about it > but if the service is as reliable as Rogers, you won't need it > very often. Well, from what I heard - including looking at some personal friends experiences - 3Web support is really bad, even worse than Bell. > Acanac offers DSL service for $227.40 for one year, including > taxes, plus $8/month for the dry loop. They include 100GB of > on-line storage. Again, I've read varied things about Acanac, > none of which really scare me since people say the same things > about Rogers or Bell too. The caveat with these guys is that > if you want the best deal, you'll have to prepay for a year. The scary part of prepay is whether the company will keep its service quality for that whole year, or in some cases whether the company will stay there at all. > If you just want to go month-to-month, TekSavvy, which seems > to have quite a fan club of customers, seems like a better > choice. TekSavvy seems to learn that spend a little time to give better support goes a long way into customer loyalty. :-) > Primus has a bundle of home phone, long distance, and DSL > Internet for $64.95. One of my brothers uses them and is happy > with them. Maybe old price? It seems to be $74.95 now. Considering I don't need long distance that much, this actually more expensive. > They're apparently uncapped but I have no idea if they're > subject to Bell's traffic shaping. Should be. > I'm looking at two connections as RAIN (Redundant Array of > Inexpensive Networks). Of course there is the > not-so-insignificant matter of the phone and cable service > coming into my home via overhead wires that are separated by > only a few feet after running a gauntlet of trees with > overhanging branches. If you want reducancy, probably better if one of the connection use wireless Internet (either cell or Rogers wimax), so you are not dependent on that cable. :-) -- (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ** Felix dies Nativitatis! http://advent2008.com/ Happy New Year! ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 20:56:05 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:56:05 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <49665F68.1040900-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> <4966413E.6090607@dinamis.com> <49665717.6050109@telly.org> <49665F68.1040900@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <49666865.8070903@telly.org> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > What about good old Konqueror? It still works as a file manager. > In KDE4 they're just different front ends to the same innards. Anything that won't working in Dolphin won't working in Konq either. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 21:46:23 2009 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:46:23 -0500 Subject: does anyone know how to list functions in a given shared library Message-ID: <200901081646.25638.icanprogram@295.ca> Does anyone know of a command to list the functions in a given shared library? Google points me to "nm" but it displays all the symbols in a library. Thanks in advance. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 21:54:24 2009 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:54:24 -0500 Subject: does anyone know how to list functions in a given shared library In-Reply-To: <200901081646.25638.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200901081646.25638.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: try: nm | grep " T " Cheers, Colin On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 4:46 PM, bob 295 wrote: > Does anyone know of a command to list the functions in a given shared library? > > Google points me to "nm" but it displays all the symbols in a library. > > Thanks in advance. > > bob > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 22:15:08 2009 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:15:08 -0500 Subject: does anyone know how to list functions in a given shared library In-Reply-To: References: <200901081646.25638.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <200901081715.08745.icanprogram@295.ca> Thanks that will do the trick. bob On January 8, 2009 04:54 pm, colin davidson wrote: > try: > > nm | grep " T " > > Cheers, Colin > > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 4:46 PM, bob 295 wrote: > > Does anyone know of a command to list the functions in a given shared > > library? > > > > Google points me to "nm" but it displays all the symbols in a library. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > bob > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 22:55:59 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:55:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Tomcat Based Webmail In-Reply-To: <20090108154156.GL29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Well no idea there, since I simply avoid anything to do with java on | principle. Don't forget to prepare to have 10times the hardware | resources available of what something like php would reuqire to do the | same job. | | All I ever see from tomcat (and other java servers) is awfully slow | service. Bell canada's web site is one of the worst I have tried to | deal with. The world will be a better place when java is banned from | use. I expect that you are right but I don't know why. The folks who implement Java have worked really hard to get the efficiency up and tell plausible stories about that. Are they wrong? Is the problem caused by bloated libraries that are elegantly layered too deeply? Is the problem due to Java programmers? Perhaps quantity, not quality? Is the problem that the systems coded in Java are just too big to do well? What do you think is going on? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 23:12:37 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:12:37 -0500 Subject: Tomcat Based Webmail In-Reply-To: References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 5:55 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | Well no idea there, since I simply avoid anything to do with java on > | principle. Don't forget to prepare to have 10times the hardware > | resources available of what something like php would reuqire to do the > | same job. > | > | All I ever see from tomcat (and other java servers) is awfully slow > | service. Bell canada's web site is one of the worst I have tried to > | deal with. The world will be a better place when java is banned from > | use. > > I expect that you are right but I don't know why. > > The folks who implement Java have worked really hard to get the > efficiency up and tell plausible stories about that. Are they wrong? > > Is the problem caused by bloated libraries that are elegantly layered > too deeply? > > Is the problem due to Java programmers? Perhaps quantity, not > quality? > > Is the problem that the systems coded in Java are just too big to do > well? > > What do you think is going on? What I have seen is that: a) There are Java frameworks that get mighty heavyweight; b) Organizations get enthralled with using those frameworks to allow them to have naive developers working on "enterprise applications." I have also seen a tendancy for developers to use Java naively and ignore that operations have costs, both in terms of memory usage and in terms of "Big O." C developers know that it costs something every time they do a malloc(); they see that cost. Every time they create a pointer, they have to manage the memory, so they are excruciatingly aware of the costs. In contrast, instantiating an instance of an object class, in Java, causes similar costs to be paid, but as the cost wasn't visible up front, the developer might be blissfully unaware that there even was a cost. Especially if they are naive :-). And yes, the more layers there are between the developer and the code that gets executed, the more difficult it may be to realize what the costs could be. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Douglas William Jerrold - "The only athletic sport I ever mastered was backgammon." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 8 23:47:28 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:47:28 -0500 Subject: Tomcat Based Webmail In-Reply-To: References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0901081547h28cf94b7ib5ed8db27174f061@mail.gmail.com> Perhaps that explains my reluctance to play with Java; I don't have any issues with it as a language, but I find many apps and their deployment (to the web) fraught with trouble - like unnessesary bloat. (apologies for any spelling errs - sent via mobile... More later...) On 1/8/09, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 5:55 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> | From: Lennart Sorensen >> >> | Well no idea there, since I simply avoid anything to do with java on >> | principle. Don't forget to prepare to have 10times the hardware >> | resources available of what something like php would reuqire to do the >> | same job. >> | >> | All I ever see from tomcat (and other java servers) is awfully slow >> | service. Bell canada's web site is one of the worst I have tried to >> | deal with. The world will be a better place when java is banned from >> | use. >> >> I expect that you are right but I don't know why. >> >> The folks who implement Java have worked really hard to get the >> efficiency up and tell plausible stories about that. Are they wrong? >> >> Is the problem caused by bloated libraries that are elegantly layered >> too deeply? >> >> Is the problem due to Java programmers? Perhaps quantity, not >> quality? >> >> Is the problem that the systems coded in Java are just too big to do >> well? >> >> What do you think is going on? > > What I have seen is that: > > a) There are Java frameworks that get mighty heavyweight; > > b) Organizations get enthralled with using those frameworks to allow > them to have naive developers working on "enterprise applications." > > I have also seen a tendancy for developers to use Java naively and > ignore that operations have costs, both in terms of memory usage and > in terms of "Big O." > > C developers know that it costs something every time they do a > malloc(); they see that cost. Every time they create a pointer, they > have to manage the memory, so they are excruciatingly aware of the > costs. > > In contrast, instantiating an instance of an object class, in Java, > causes similar costs to be paid, but as the cost wasn't visible up > front, the developer might be blissfully unaware that there even was a > cost. Especially if they are naive :-). > > And yes, the more layers there are between the developer and the code > that gets executed, the more difficult it may be to realize what the > costs could be. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > Douglas William Jerrold - "The only athletic sport I ever mastered > was backgammon." > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Sent from my mobile device Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 00:23:37 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:23:37 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <49666135.2060404-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> <4966413E.6090607@dinamis.com> <3a97ef0901081045m51257e3eva8c5eb21170e6a7@mail.gmail.com> <49665F5B.8050407@dinamis.com> <49666135.2060404@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <49669909.2090501@dinamis.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > dpkg --get-selections and dpkg --set-selections will let you do a fresh > install and then grab whatever the previous system (where you did > get-selections) had marked as installed. That does nothing for configuration management and dumping the values for selections that were made during install using "debconf-get-selections" dpkg is all but useless since many of the parameters are irrelevant in preseeding. I have come to really dislike preseeding because of its many exceptions, complexity, and poor documentation. > And aptitude dist-upgrade > between releases is absolutely a joy to work with, on a desktop, laptop, > server etc. I haven't run into a problem yet using aptitude and etch > when it was still the testing release. I just upgraded Kubuntu 7.10 on this system to 8.04. It went relatively smoothly except for the fact that the fonts are now ugly. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 00:39:11 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:39:11 -0500 Subject: Tomcat Based Webmail In-Reply-To: References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090109003911.GA931@watson-wilson.ca> On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 05:55:59PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >Is the problem caused by bloated libraries that are elegantly layered >too deeply? > >Is the problem due to Java programmers? Perhaps quantity, not >quality? In my experience the problem is how Java is used and by whom. If the best thing about Java is its portability then why do I often experience applications that cannot be migrated easily? In another use I've seen folks spend considerable time and effort creating several hundred kb of Java code to perform some regex work on EDI files. It never occurred to them that the same thing could be accomplished with only a few hundred lines of perl, sed or awk in a fraction of the time. Good programmers use the tools that are best for the job. They are smart enough to learn what tools they need. Bad programmers stick with what they know even if it is the hammer instead of the screw driver. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 01:28:27 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:28:27 -0500 Subject: More microphone grief Message-ID: <4966A83B.1040204@telly.org> I thought that USB webcams and microphones would be easier to set up under Linux than the ones attached to sound cards. One attempt last week went very smoothly. This time, not so much. When I configure Skype to use it the test call fails with "problem with Audio Capture". And when I try to use `arecord`, I get this: $ arecord --list-devices **** List of CAPTURE Hardware Devices **** card 0: Intel [HDA Intel], device 0: AD198x Analog [AD198x Analog] Subdevices: 2/2 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 Subdevice #1: subdevice #1 card 1: NX6000 [Microsoft? LifeCam NX-6000], device 0: USB Audio [USB Audio] Subdevices: 1/1 Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 $ arecord -D hw:1,0 -d 10 test.wav Recording WAVE 'test.wav' : Unsigned 8 bit, Rate 8000 Hz, Mono arecord: set_params:932: Broken configuration for this PCM: no configurations available Ironically the camera component of this webcam works wonderfully, I just can't get any audio out of the mike. Any suggestions? Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 01:21:46 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:21:46 -0500 Subject: Tomcat Based Webmail In-Reply-To: <20090109003911.GA931-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090109003911.GA931@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4966A6AA.30309@gmail.com> Neil Watson wrote: > > In my experience the problem is how Java is used and by whom. If the > best thing about Java is its portability then why do I often experience > applications that cannot be migrated easily? In another use I've seen > folks spend considerable time and effort creating several hundred kb of > Java code to perform some regex work on EDI files. It never occurred to > them that the same thing could be accomplished with only a few hundred > lines of perl, sed or awk in a fraction of the time. > > Good programmers use the tools that are best for the job. They are > smart enough to learn what tools they need. Bad programmers stick with > what they know even if it is the hammer instead of the screw driver. > A good programmer should know a few languages at least and be able to choose which one to use and for what. I do not mean that she should know perfectely each of these languages. I do not see need for that. But at least she should have an idea about how to use them, how they are different, how efficient and in what, etc. Java applications, I have such a feeling, are done mostly by windows programmers who often do not have a feeling or idea that some features run differentelly on another system. I have a good example. I have been working with MapInfo java application. This is a a very big company (actually, now it is owned by another one). They provide map data and software in java (not only in java) to be used with these data. I was working on Linux and all their software and data were supposed to work on Linux (with java). But I had a huge pain to make things working. Why? Silly, trivial problems! Programmers assumed for instance that file names are not case sensitive! In general, I agree with someone else who posted before: Java applications are supposed to run on any platform. But they seldom do. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 01:49:18 2009 From: trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (cameron lord) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:49:18 -0500 Subject: New KDE: Like it but its got almost as many bugs as vista (URGENT) In-Reply-To: <165901.56917.qm-Fzfr+oC8rxz5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <4964CDD5.7020906@alteeve.com> <165901.56917.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:07:53 -0800-FFYn/CNdgSB7Yz9tXW36Kw at public.gmane.org: Re: New KDE (was: Re: [TLUG]: Linux drove me to get a Mac)To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org I am using KDE3 on Ubuntu 8.04 at work and Ubuntu 7.10 at home. I got no problems. Part of the reason may be I don't install d uninstall games :-) I use virtual machines to test new programs before I install them. EK--- On Wed, 1/7/09, Madison Kelly wrote: From: Madison Kelly Subject: New KDE (was: Re: [TLUG]: Linux drove me to get a Mac)To: tlug-mfGULW49uUSGESfMtMwSeQ at public.gmane.org: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 10:44 AMTyler Aviss wrote: > ** Has anyone else tried KDE4? I'd love to swap notes and try to sort > out the big annoyance it's become. Cameron Lord (age 13) wrote:I now have kde 4 it has a couple hunderd small bugs but its verry good in its layoutits layout: wich is good but it has a huge security holefrom: cameron lord (trieocorp-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger _________________________________________________________________ Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/events.aspx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 02:07:46 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:07:46 -0500 Subject: sound from flv? In-Reply-To: <20090109003911.GA931-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090109003911.GA931@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4966B172.5060508@gmail.com> Is there a way to extract just sound only from these silly flash movies? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 02:24:46 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 21:24:46 -0500 Subject: InstaLinux: Has Anyone Heard Of It? Message-ID: <7c50d3570901081824s17431d47l2b8a2ddd9d71e2e@mail.gmail.com> Just found this today, it's called InstaLinux, has anyone heard of it before? You can find out more about it at the following URL: http://www.instalinux.com/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 02:41:54 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 21:41:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: sound from flv? In-Reply-To: <4966B172.5060508-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090109003911.GA931@watson-wilson.ca> <4966B172.5060508@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Jan 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Is there a way to extract just sound only from these silly flash movies? mplayer -vo null -ao pcm:file=output.wav input.flv -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 02:49:35 2009 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 21:49:35 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <49657289.60108-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> Message-ID: <200901082149.35661.amarjan@pobox.com> On January 7, 2009 10:27:05 pm Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I also have spots of the bottom panel occasionally flickering or completely > disappearing until I move the mouse pointer over them. KDE problem or > Kubuntu? Doesn't matter. New users who encounter them will blame > "Linux" and run back to XP or Vista or maybe Macs. KDE4 has been pushing the envelope with the graphics stack, and they're the first users of various bits of X functionality so they've encountered all sorts of graphics bugs along the way. Do you have nvidia graphics? If so, you'll probably want to grab the latest beta driver. I have 180.something and it's the first one that's been completely stable and artifact-free with KDE4, compositing and Open Office at the same time, with no special xorg.conf settings to boot. It also seems to work around some flash video brain damage. This is on openSUSE 11.1, though, and I know the Novell people have put in a lot of work to stabilize and feature-fix KDE 4.1. Personally, I gave up on Kubuntu last summer because of the lack of manpower, stability and general polish. I miss Debian's apt and multiverse, but on the whole I like openSUSE so far, and I really like the usable and stable KDE4 (with smattering of KDE3 apps). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 02:51:43 2009 From: dgardiner0821-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Daniel Gardiner) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:51:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: InstaLinux: Has Anyone Heard Of It? In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901081824s17431d47l2b8a2ddd9d71e2e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570901081824s17431d47l2b8a2ddd9d71e2e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <409010.66566.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I read about this in the Christmas issue of Linux Format but haven't used it. Revisor is something similar but Fedora-specific at revisor.fedoraunity.org, and I believe that the Platform Development Kit at http://trac.64studio.com/pdk/ also does something similar. --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Michael Lauzon wrote: > From: Michael Lauzon > Subject: [TLUG]: InstaLinux: Has Anyone Heard Of It? > To: "TLUG" > Received: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 9:24 PM > Just found this today, it's called InstaLinux, has > anyone heard of it > before? You can find out more about it at the following > URL: > > http://www.instalinux.com/ > > -- > Sincerely, > > Michael Lauzon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 02:47:36 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:47:36 -0500 Subject: sound from flv? In-Reply-To: References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090109003911.GA931@watson-wilson.ca> <4966B172.5060508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4966BAC8.5030506@gmail.com> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jan 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> Is there a way to extract just sound only from these silly flash movies? > > mplayer -vo null -ao pcm:file=output.wav input.flv > Thanks! Works for me. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 03:04:33 2009 From: linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kamran Khan) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:04:33 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4963C51E.9010009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> On 6-Jan-09, at 3:54 PM, John McGregor wrote: > Kamran Khan wrote: >> After 7 years of Linux being my primary desktop operating system at >> home(I tinkered with Linux since the Walnut Creek days) I jumped to a >> MacBook with Leopard. OS X is basically BSD UNIX with nice candy on >> top so you all the command tools that I came to love in UNIX and >> Linux >> are pretty much available. OS X has better support for hardware, >> especially gadgets like cell phones and cameras. Not as much as >> Windows but more then Linux and major vendors like Nokia release >> their >> software natively for OS X. OS X has better support for games, some >> of the big games are native on OS X and of course there is Wine and >> Cedega. OS X has much better integration between its applications >> like iCal and mail.app. Lastly, overall OS X is more "polished" then >> Linux. Linux as server operating system is excellent but when you >> move closer and closer to end user applications you see a lack of >> refinement, lack of polish, sometimes a lot of instability and very >> poor integration. The fasciation of getting things to work with >> Linux >> has long since passed and when I buy a printer I pretty much just >> want >> to plug it in. You pay a big premium for what is essentially PC >> hardware but so far it has proven to be the best desktop os I can >> find. So long Linux, see you on embedded devices everywhere. > Ultimately platform choice is about getting your own work done. Your > message indicates that you have discovered that Apple provides a more > efficient / productive platform for you. That's a good thing. There > is, > however, an undercurrent in your post that seems to state that the > rest > of us on this list don't get it. We do. Linux is our platform of > choice. > It empowers us to get our work done. > Sadly you don't get it. It would seem that many of your cohorts on the list do not either. For example the solution to print on Linux(Desktop) is to buy a postscript printer. The solution to allow me to sync my SE Smart Phone with applications running on the Linux Desktop is? Yes I know, buy hardware that works with Linux. Like I said you don't get it. I fail to see how your operating system empowers you when clearly you are a slave to it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 03:19:03 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:19:03 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <49665F5B.8050407-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> <4966413E.6090607@dinamis.com> <3a97ef0901081045m51257e3eva8c5eb21170e6a7@mail.gmail.com> <49665F5B.8050407@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280901081919h7c2126e7x8434c8a8ee8054fb@mail.gmail.com> 2009/1/8 CLIFFORD ILKAY : > Rolling upgrades as promoted by Debian and Gentoo are quite > appealing in theory but I think in practice, especially on desktop > systems which typically have many more packages installed and more > points of potential breakage, they're problematic. I know Len is going > to argue that he has been carrying forward his Debian since Paleolithic > times but that really doesn't have much appeal for me any more. He's not the only one: I have a laptop that started out as Ubuntu "Hoary Hedgehog" (mid-2005) and has had command line aptitude upgrades ever since, all the way through Ibex. I've never had a significant problem with an upgrade, and my machines are fairly customized. I have a desktop with a considerably longer history of in-place Debian upgrades (since 2003). Again, no significant problems. Trust me when I say that, because I haven't the ability to fix anything significant. I've had to spend 20 minutes a couple times patching scripts of my own that broke because of version differences in software the scripts called, that's about it. I should admit that the one time I tried a graphical upgrade of Ubuntu, it freaked completely because I wasn't using KDE OR GNOME, so obviously my system was busted. I just switched back to the command line and had no further problems. I find the post-install tweaking after a full wipe much more painful than what I face after an in-place upgrade with Debian. In-place with Debian and Ubuntu has been so easy that the idea of wiping hasn't even occurred to me for years - and that idea is what's kept me from experimenting further with the BSDs, which seem to think that "wipe-and-re-install" is the only way to do go. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 03:23:21 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:23:21 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4966C329.4090100@utoronto.ca> Kamran Khan wrote: > Sadly you don't get it. It would seem that many of your cohorts on the > list do not either. For example the solution to print on Linux(Desktop) > is to buy a postscript printer. The solution to allow me to sync my SE > Smart Phone with applications running on the Linux Desktop is? Yes I > know, buy hardware that works with Linux. Like I said you don't get > it. I fail to see how your operating system empowers you when clearly > you are a slave to it. I can change mine if I don't like it. That's a textbook definition of empowerment if I ever encountered one. The same cannot be said to nearly the same degree of other closed proprietary operating systems, to which many of their users are truly enslaved. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 03:24:32 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:24:32 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280901081924h312c10dax124c6c5ecf7b9b47@mail.gmail.com> 2009/1/8 Kamran Khan : > > On 6-Jan-09, at 3:54 PM, John McGregor wrote: > >> Kamran Khan wrote: >>> >>> After 7 years of Linux being my primary desktop operating system at >>> home(I tinkered with Linux since the Walnut Creek days) I jumped to a >>> MacBook with Leopard. OS X is basically BSD UNIX with nice candy on >>> top so you all the command tools that I came to love in UNIX and Linux >>> are pretty much available. OS X has better support for hardware, >>> especially gadgets like cell phones and cameras. Not as much as >>> Windows but more then Linux and major vendors like Nokia release their >>> software natively for OS X. OS X has better support for games, some >>> of the big games are native on OS X and of course there is Wine and >>> Cedega. OS X has much better integration between its applications >>> like iCal and mail.app. Lastly, overall OS X is more "polished" then >>> Linux. Linux as server operating system is excellent but when you >>> move closer and closer to end user applications you see a lack of >>> refinement, lack of polish, sometimes a lot of instability and very >>> poor integration. The fasciation of getting things to work with Linux >>> has long since passed and when I buy a printer I pretty much just want >>> to plug it in. You pay a big premium for what is essentially PC >>> hardware but so far it has proven to be the best desktop os I can >>> find. So long Linux, see you on embedded devices everywhere. >> >> Ultimately platform choice is about getting your own work done. Your >> message indicates that you have discovered that Apple provides a more >> efficient / productive platform for you. That's a good thing. There is, >> however, an undercurrent in your post that seems to state that the rest >> of us on this list don't get it. We do. Linux is our platform of choice. >> It empowers us to get our work done. >> > Sadly you don't get it. It would seem that many of your cohorts on the list > do not either. For example the solution to print on Linux(Desktop) is to > buy a postscript printer. The solution to allow me to sync my SE Smart > Phone with applications running on the Linux Desktop is? Yes I know, buy > hardware that works with Linux. Like I said you don't get it. I fail to > see how your operating system empowers you when clearly you are a slave to > it. We all give up something for our choice of operating systems. You paid a fortune for your hardware, and you'll continue to do so - and in fact pay more for your hardware than I will for my Linux-compatible hardware. You'll find yours more easily, and it will "just work," whereas mine may not. But you may only be able to buy from one vendor, and the price will reflect that. You're as much a slave to yours as we are to ours: your reasons work for you, ours work for us. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 03:30:30 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:30:30 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <49669909.2090501-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> <4966413E.6090607@dinamis.com> <3a97ef0901081045m51257e3eva8c5eb21170e6a7@mail.gmail.com> <49665F5B.8050407@dinamis.com> <49666135.2060404@utoronto.ca> <49669909.2090501@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4966C4D6.1020408@utoronto.ca> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: >> dpkg --get-selections and dpkg --set-selections will let you do a fresh >> install and then grab whatever the previous system (where you did >> get-selections) had marked as installed. > > That does nothing for configuration management and dumping the values > for selections that were made during install using > "debconf-get-selections" dpkg is all but useless since many of the > parameters are irrelevant in preseeding. I have come to really dislike > preseeding because of its many exceptions, complexity, and poor > documentation. That's where your archived backups of /etc and /var come in :) In fact, why not just use dd and save using any package manager at all? >> And aptitude dist-upgrade >> between releases is absolutely a joy to work with, on a desktop, laptop, >> server etc. I haven't run into a problem yet using aptitude and etch >> when it was still the testing release. > > I just upgraded Kubuntu 7.10 on this system to 8.04. It went relatively > smoothly except for the fact that the fonts are now ugly. I intensely dislike Ubuntu's default freetype setup as well, they seem to have gone the same route as Fedora and screwed with parts of the bytecode interpreter for truetype fonts. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 04:07:41 2009 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:07:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: Tomcat Based Webmail Message-ID: <81737.78722.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Java applications, I have such a feeling, are done mostly by windows > programmers Couldn't be further from the truth. The place where Java makes the most sense and is most successful is server side. Most serious Java developers generally avoid .NET, so as such they're not windows developers ;) Java when used appropriately is not nearly as bad on the server side as some make it out to be. Of course it's not as fast as compiled C/C++ but it has other advantages going for it. I think the problem you are all seeing relates to the fact that the languages that have been mentioned in this thread are mostly ones that are used by *nix geeks, who on average are good solid programmers. On the other hand, the popularity of Java makes it so that it is widely enough used that many many developers use it. As such, the pool of Java developers is diluted by people who are generally poor developers. For what it's worth, I've been using Java for 10+ years and have used C/C++ for even longer. It's mostly about the quality of the developer. The days of Java just being flat out slow as molasses have mostly passed. -M -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 06:30:38 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:30:38 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4966EF0E.9080204@rogers.com> Kamran Khan wrote: > I fail to see how your operating system empowers you when clearly > you are a slave to it. > You are making assumptions that have no bearing on the situation. How I get my work done and that I regard Linux as the most efficient operating system to accomplish my tasks should have no effect on your choice of OS X as the best for your needs. Yet clearly it seems to. That's OK. We differ. That's OK too.. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 14:59:16 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:59:16 -0500 Subject: More microphone grief In-Reply-To: <4966A83B.1040204-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4966A83B.1040204@telly.org> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901090659y3c00f7e0q7fcc2404d8a77b62@mail.gmail.com> Hmmm. I've had certain issues with various USB devices when they don't like either the bitrate or the # of channels that the calling program is using. Have you tried something other than 8000Hz and/or perhaps using 2 Channels/stereo? I usually test with Audacity for this type of thing. - TJA On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I thought that USB webcams and microphones would be easier to set up > under Linux than the ones attached to sound cards. > One attempt last week went very smoothly. This time, not so much. > > When I configure Skype to use it the test call fails with "problem with > Audio Capture". And when I try to use `arecord`, I get this: > > $ arecord --list-devices > **** List of CAPTURE Hardware Devices **** > card 0: Intel [HDA Intel], device 0: AD198x Analog [AD198x Analog] > Subdevices: 2/2 > Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 > Subdevice #1: subdevice #1 > card 1: NX6000 [Microsoft? LifeCam NX-6000], device 0: USB Audio [USB Audio] > Subdevices: 1/1 > Subdevice #0: subdevice #0 > > $ arecord -D hw:1,0 -d 10 test.wav > Recording WAVE 'test.wav' : Unsigned 8 bit, Rate 8000 Hz, Mono > arecord: set_params:932: Broken configuration for this PCM: no > configurations available > > Ironically the camera component of this webcam works wonderfully, I just > can't get any audio out of the mike. > Any suggestions? > > Thanks! > > - Evan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 16:01:57 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:01:57 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Kamran Khan wrote: > On 6-Jan-09, at 3:54 PM, John McGregor wrote: >> Ultimately platform choice is about getting your own work done. Your >> message indicates that you have discovered that Apple provides a more >> efficient / productive platform for you. That's a good thing. There is, >> however, an undercurrent in your post that seems to state that the rest >> of us on this list don't get it. We do. Linux is our platform of choice. >> It empowers us to get our work done. >> > Sadly you don't get it. It would seem that many of your cohorts on the list > do not either. For example the solution to print on Linux(Desktop) is to > buy a postscript printer. The solution to allow me to sync my SE Smart > Phone with applications running on the Linux Desktop is? Yes I know, buy > hardware that works with Linux. Like I said you don't get it. I fail to > see how your operating system empowers you when clearly you are a slave to > it. Stones can get thrown at "slaves" in all directions... *ALL* OS platforms are restrictive in one degree or another in what hardware they support... - MacOS doesn't support *every* printer or scanner or network device out there; - Nor does Linux; - Nor does the latest iteration of Microsoft Windows; - I had a conversation last night about Plan 9, where I mentioned that the last time I tried installing it, I was rebuffed because it wouldn't talk to my disk controller. At the time (about 10 years ago :-)), it would only "play well" with certain NSC SCSI host adapters. Almost Mac-ish, in a way ;-). In ALL cases, there are fairly large sets of "slightly deviant" hardware that they won't be able to cope with terribly well. The cross-sections of "coping" and lacking thereof are different for each OS, and it's probably fair to say that the respective communities each develop a certain amount of myopia surrounding their coping mechanisms. I decline to insult you by calling you "clearly a slave" to MacOS; that would indeed be insulting and counterproductive to attempting to hold a meaningful dialogue. We see political milieus around us where the participants have "ossified" into positions that essentially prevent them from meaningfully communicating with one another. In the US, Democrats and Republicans seem to be stratifying their population into mutually exclusive subcultures. Canada seems to be seeing some of the same. I find it quite distressing the degree to which I see people that *can't imagine* how people in the "other stratum" could possibly be in that stratum. I quite frequently see this phenomenon in individuals who seem to believe that they have a capacity for imagination; their inability to grasp "other strata" seems to belie this belief of theirs. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that this lack of imagination visits us here in a context such as inter-platform comparison. But I decline to participate. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Everett Dirksen - "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 16:30:53 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:30:53 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4966C4D6.1020408-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <3a97ef0901061941h31d3bbf8j50dd4f591d54e50a@mail.gmail.com> <496436E8.5050806@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0901070710q218f87b3ta947906040ae7eda@mail.gmail.com> <49652F44.4030609@telly.org> <4965674A.7020201@dinamis.com> <49657289.60108@telly.org> <4966413E.6090607@dinamis.com> <3a97ef0901081045m51257e3eva8c5eb21170e6a7@mail.gmail.com> <49665F5B.8050407@dinamis.com> <49666135.2060404@utoronto.ca> <49669909.2090501@dinamis.com> <4966C4D6.1020408@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <49677BBD.1030000@dinamis.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> Jamon Camisso wrote: >>> dpkg --get-selections and dpkg --set-selections will let you do a fresh >>> install and then grab whatever the previous system (where you did >>> get-selections) had marked as installed. >> >> That does nothing for configuration management and dumping the values >> for selections that were made during install using >> "debconf-get-selections" dpkg is all but useless since many of the >> parameters are irrelevant in preseeding. I have come to really dislike >> preseeding because of its many exceptions, complexity, and poor >> documentation. > > That's where your archived backups of /etc and /var come in :) In fact, > why not just use dd and save using any package manager at all? Because storing disk images for every system I need to manage isn't something that scales. I know disk space is cheap but I prefer to concentrate on getting the installation scripted, the configuration managed via scripts kept under version control, and user data backed up properly rather than using the blunt tool of disk images. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 18:21:01 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:21:01 -0500 Subject: Decent webcam @ Futureshop/BestBuy In-Reply-To: <4960DB12.6040705-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4960DB12.6040705@telly.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280901091021s3eb531bevf6b06ba05b678c47@mail.gmail.com> 2009/1/4 Evan Leibovitch : > I'd been having some grief with my old $4 microphone since upgrading to > Kubuntu 8.10; I just couldn't seem to get the ALSA mixer to get it useful. > And web forums seemed to present more similar problems that remained > unresolved. So rather than waste another week on what might still be a > futile effort, I started investigating USB-based microphones, and as it > turns out most of them are built into webcams. Since I didn't have a webcam > for this system I started looking around, at the usual suspects (Canada > Computers, Tiger, NewEgg, etc.) > > Having been scared off many Logitecs because of firmware issues (some revs > work with the driver, some don't, but the packaging doesn't say what' s > installed), I saw that an off-brand model seemed to be reasonably supported. > Some drivers work, but are not commonly shipped with distributions and need > to be built from source. Others contain proprietary bits. > > I found one that seemed to have the combination of price, specs, and support > using a standards-based driver included in many current distros. It was $31 > at Future Shop -- a place I almost *never* consider for computer parts -- > from an off-brand called Dynex: > http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10098615&catid=10498 > I was surprised to see the Dynex listed amongst the webcams well-supported > by the standards-based UVC driver: > http://linux-uvc.berlios.de/ > > I don't think stock availability is an issue. At the Yonge-Dundas store, > there was a floor-standing display full of them. > > For $32 it seemed like a reasonable gamble; at that price it's cheaper than > most current models. And I was delighted to get home and find this unit to > be amongst the most hassle-free peripherals I've ever plugged in to a Linux > system. The driver loaded as soon as it was plugged in and it was recognized > right away; I had immediate access from both ALSA and the video test worked > as soon as I told the Skype to use it. > > The only unusual thing is that `lsusb` reports the device as "Best Buy" :-) > -- sure enough it's also found at that store: > http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10098615&catid=20403 > So it' s probably just a store-brand -- BestBuy's equivalent of "Presidents > Choice". :-) > > Anyway... I rarely recommend hardware but this one's on my list. I've been considering buying one of these for the last couple days after Evan's recommendation, and went to Future Shop today to do so. I was pleasantly surprised to find they're on special (for what period I don't know) for $24.99, or $28.24 with taxes. The Future Shop at the North York Centre has a good stack of them. Haven't tried it with Linux yet. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 18:45:40 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:45:40 -0500 Subject: InstaLinux: Has Anyone Heard Of It? In-Reply-To: <409010.66566.qm-nQt9QCl3sx2B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570901081824s17431d47l2b8a2ddd9d71e2e@mail.gmail.com> <409010.66566.qm@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901091045j644b2011j77af0bb481c05904@mail.gmail.com> On 08/01/2009, Daniel Gardiner wrote: > I read about this in the Christmas issue of Linux Format but haven't used it. > Revisor is something similar but Fedora-specific at revisor.fedoraunity.org, and I > believe that the Platform Development Kit at http://trac.64studio.com/pdk/ also > does something similar. > Those two you mention don't seem the same, as they are not web based -- from what I can tell -- like InstaLinux. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 19:20:00 2009 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:20:00 -0500 Subject: Microsoft GPS Message-ID: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> Hi all I suppose Google would work but... My Microsoft Trips 2007/GPS has arrived from Factorydirect. Now that I have spent $30, what do I need? [ Do I curse Hugh or bless him for the $20 coupon?] Never having used a GPS, does it only work in the great outdoors? It comes with a little suction cup, I assume this is stuck to a car windshield? Next is the computer, my old Thinkpad is W98, Maybe a new hard drive with a Linux install? Or a new small computer? Hey this getting to be more expensive than a $150 GPS. What Linux software is needed for the GPS. I think Colin has said but I can't find the post. if someone can just post where to go to find this kind of info, I would be appreciative. No need to spend time answering my niggling questions. Thanks -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 19:30:40 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:30:40 -0500 Subject: Microsoft GPS In-Reply-To: <200901091420.00961.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4967A5E0.9040709@telly.org> Merv Curley wrote: > Hi all > > I suppose Google would work but... > > My Microsoft Trips 2007/GPS has arrived from Factorydirect. Now that I have > spent $30, what do I need? [ Do I curse Hugh or bless him for the $20 > coupon?] > The value of having a computer-attached GPS is in the ability it gives you to help participate in the Open Street Map Project: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page This is an attempt to duplicate the global mapping used in systems such as Google Maps, but without their proprietary mapping data. > Never having used a GPS, does it only work in the great outdoors? It comes > with a little suction cup, I assume this is stuck to a car windshield? > Correct. Using the Microsoft software, you could use that unit, plus your computer, like a very large portable GPS system. With Linux its value is to help CREATE data rather than just use it. See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners'_Guide to find out how. > What Linux software is needed for the GPS. I think Colin has said but I can't find the post. > see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Making_Tracks_with_Homebrew-ware#Linux The gpsd and associated packages are available as standard Ubuntu packages, and I imagine they're available pre-packaged for other systems as well. > if someone can just post where to go to find this kind of info, I would be > appreciative. No need to spend time answering my niggling questions. > HTH. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 21:41:55 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 16:41:55 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090109214154.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 10:04:33PM -0500, Kamran Khan wrote: > Sadly you don't get it. It would seem that many of your cohorts on > the list do not either. For example the solution to print on > Linux(Desktop) is to buy a postscript printer. The solution to allow > me to sync my SE Smart Phone with applications running on the Linux > Desktop is? Yes I know, buy hardware that works with Linux. Like I > said you don't get it. I fail to see how your operating system > empowers you when clearly you are a slave to it. Unfortunately we live in a world where 99% of people use windows, and of the rest a lot use Mac OS X. We also have a lot of companies that think everything is a trade secret even when it has no reason to be. So as a result many devices only work with windows, or if you are lucky with Mac as well. Even trying to implement support for it yourself is nearly impossible because no one wants to tell you what the protocol or file format they used is. After all that's secret and it would be awful is anyone else knew how trivially plain and simple their solution was. After all they had to put work into it, so it must be special and worth something. Now the answer of postscript printers has been true for a very long time, not just for linux, but for all unix systems and traditionally at least also the mac. Essentially system supports postscript printing, and except for windows, considers it the native print language. I don't have a postscript printer at home, I just have an epson stylus photo r260, and it works just fine with gutenprint. Epson is very good about providing documentation to developers, and hence their printers end up with very good support pretty soon after they are released. If your smartphone provided documentation on its interface, someone would be able to provide sync for it. Almost certainly they don't. Of course if they choose not to provide software for the next version of windows or mac OS and you happen to upgrade, then your phone will be useless there too. Of course given phones rarely stay in use much more than 3 years, I guess you don't care. Perhaps you should. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 21:46:49 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 16:46:49 -0500 Subject: does anyone know how to list functions in a given shared library In-Reply-To: <200901081646.25638.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200901081646.25638.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <20090109214649.GQ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 04:46:23PM -0500, bob 295 wrote: > Does anyone know of a command to list the functions in a given shared library? > > Google points me to "nm" but it displays all the symbols in a library. > > Thanks in advance. objdump -T file -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 21:53:31 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 16:53:31 -0500 Subject: Tomcat Based Webmail In-Reply-To: References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090109215331.GR29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 05:55:59PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I expect that you are right but I don't know why. > > The folks who implement Java have worked really hard to get the > efficiency up and tell plausible stories about that. Are they wrong? Well you can't make up for people putting lousy algorithms on top of the system. > Is the problem caused by bloated libraries that are elegantly layered > too deeply? It isn't unusual on the bell web site that when you submit info on a page that it sends it to a page that sends it to another page, etc, and you see the url change 10 times before getting to the next page. Clearly not efficient design. > Is the problem due to Java programmers? Perhaps quantity, not > quality? Well certainly I have seen a lot of java programmers who really don't qualify to be called programmers. More like java code monkeys. They stick things together, in often inefficient ways, but rarely do they really implement any new libraries. > Is the problem that the systems coded in Java are just too big to do > well? Most things shouldn't be object oriented, and the overhead of forcing everything to be doesn't help. A system designed to run as bytecode certainly doesn't either. > What do you think is going on? Object oriented programming requires a good design to be efficient in most cases, and most of the people doing the java work aren't capable of doing such a design, and they usually don't even try by the looks of it. Java seems to try to make a lot of stuff seem easy when it isn't. A lot like visual basic that way, or even excel. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 21:55:22 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 16:55:22 -0500 Subject: sound from flv? In-Reply-To: <4966B172.5060508-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090109003911.GA931@watson-wilson.ca> <4966B172.5060508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090109215522.GS29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 09:07:46PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Is there a way to extract just sound only from these silly flash movies? transcode can do that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 22:46:31 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:46:31 -0500 Subject: Tomcat Based Webmail In-Reply-To: <20090109215331.GR29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090109215331.GR29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0901091446y726e1a52sa110d6fb7f5f3b42@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 05:55:59PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> Is the problem that the systems coded in Java are just too big to do >> well? > > Most things shouldn't be object oriented, and the overhead of forcing > everything to be doesn't help. A system designed to run as bytecode > certainly doesn't either. I'm not certain I fully agree with this sentiment. "Forcing everything" to be object oriented doesn't necessarily require alot of overhead. I'm a big fan of component object models in principle, but sure enough many implementations are way too bloated. I also have no problem with bytecode; it makes sense in a environment controlled at the (virtual) machine level. Of course, if the objects aren't written cleanly and/or efficiently the output is as good as useless in serious applications. Disclaimer: I am only vaguely familiar with Java. I've fiddled with it in order to researh some web capabilities, and like others have mentioned, found that Perl, PHP, or any of a dozen other languages could do the job better. That said, I still want to give Java a serious look - and being a fan of game design - I picked up a book last month that covers both. "Programming Video Games For The Evil Genius" by Ian Cinnamon[*]. Truth be told, I picked it up because it included the words "Programming Video Games" and "Linux" on the cover, however when I got home I discovered several interesting things - including the fact that everything' done in Java and that the book was written by a 15 year old. It reminds me a great deal of the numerous BASIC books I read as a child and have found it rather useful in actually starting to write code with Java. [*] http://tinyurl.com/9grlsb (Google Books, ISBN: 978-0-07-149752-7) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 23:02:56 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:02:56 -0500 Subject: Tomcat Based Webmail In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0901091446y726e1a52sa110d6fb7f5f3b42-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090109215331.GR29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0901091446y726e1a52sa110d6fb7f5f3b42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090109230256.GT29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 05:46:31PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I'm not certain I fully agree with this sentiment. > > "Forcing everything" to be object oriented doesn't necessarily require > alot of overhead. I'm a big fan of component object models in > principle, but sure enough many implementations are way too bloated. I am highly against object oriented programming for almost everything. Managing GUI components is one of the few places I think they have any benefit. I am highly in favour of functional programming. The future will be very much in need of code that can run on multiple processors and functional code can map transparently to multiple processors without help from the programmer, while most current object oriented systems can not. F# and ocaml may potentially be able to do both. Time will tell. People spend too much time worrying about how the computer does things in their code rather than focusing on telling it what they want done. if you want a certain operation done to every element of a list, then say so, don't start telling it what order to do it in and how to allocate temporary memory for each one. > I also have no problem with bytecode; it makes sense in a environment > controlled at the (virtual) machine level. Of course, if the objects > aren't written cleanly and/or efficiently the output is as good as > useless in serious applications. No virtual machines are usually running native code because that's what is efficient. The 'run anyerywhere' idea was interesting, but also inefficient and never worked as advertised. So we got the inefficiency and none of the benefit. > Disclaimer: I am only vaguely familiar with Java. I've fiddled with > it in order to researh some web capabilities, and like others have > mentioned, found that Perl, PHP, or any of a dozen other languages > could do the job better. That said, I still want to give Java a > serious look - and being a fan of game design - I picked up a book > last month that covers both. "Programming Video Games For The Evil > Genius" by Ian Cinnamon[*]. > > Truth be told, I picked it up because it included the words > "Programming Video Games" and "Linux" on the cover, however when I got > home I discovered several interesting things - including the fact that > everything' done in Java and that the book was written by a 15 year > old. If you want something fun to play with for making little games, then go play with python and pygame. That is fun, simple, and quite efficient too. And it actually has a good chance of running on lots of platforms, including both linux and windows. > It reminds me a great deal of the numerous BASIC books I read as a > child and have found it rather useful in actually starting to write > code with Java. Ah BASIC. I made the mistake of using that once upon a time. Other than I suppose getting me interested in programming, it was far from helpful in actually learning to program. > [*] http://tinyurl.com/9grlsb (Google Books, ISBN: 978-0-07-149752-7) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 9 23:45:29 2009 From: linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kamran Khan) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:45:29 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <20090109214154.GP29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> <20090109214154.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873@gmail.com> On 9-Jan-09, at 4:41 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 10:04:33PM -0500, Kamran Khan wrote: >> Sadly you don't get it. It would seem that many of your cohorts on >> the list do not either. For example the solution to print on >> Linux(Desktop) is to buy a postscript printer. The solution to allow >> me to sync my SE Smart Phone with applications running on the Linux >> Desktop is? Yes I know, buy hardware that works with Linux. Like I >> said you don't get it. I fail to see how your operating system >> empowers you when clearly you are a slave to it. > > Unfortunately we live in a world where 99% of people use windows, > and of > the rest a lot use Mac OS X. > > We also have a lot of companies that think everything is a trade > secret > even when it has no reason to be. > Well the Open Source Community lives in one Universe the rest of the world lives in another. Asking companies to completely open source their software and platforms is ridiculous. There is a lot of information to be gleaned from open source and open specs, some of it trade secrets, some of it just plain hard work to figure out, some of it work figure out and some of it trivial. Having said that, would you go to a Chef and ask him to give you his best recipes for free? Some of his recipe will be secret, some will be plain hard workto figure out, some just work to figure out and some just trivial. Put it all together and you have a dish that people from miles around will come to and pay handsomely for. The Open Source Community is advocating a business model that the rest of world doesn't follow and would outright reject. The problem started when people starting politicizing, of all things, computer technology. Stallman et al have brought a philosophy that belongs on a hippie commune into the realm of computer technology. Most people expect to paid for their work and technology companies are no different. They have shareholders, they have employees and they have multi-national interests that dictate they turn a profit. You own a car once you pay for it but do you actually expect to get the engineering diagrams, technical specifications and manufacturing techniques as well? The bottom line is cloud computing and virtualization technology have pretty much made this entire discussion pointless. Microsoft isn't f going away anytime soon and neither is Linux. With cloud computing and virtualization technology everyone gets to play and looks like Microsoft well get to play a lot. As for Apple. their future looks grey but for now it is the best desktop platform going. As for my assumptions. Yes I assume that people view computers as tools. It is a tool to get something done. If you look at operating systems strictly from that assumption, which most people do, clearly you must make significant sacrifices to run Linux. Ultimately you are running an operating system that is largely licensed under the GPL but most people can not even understand how the code works and for the few that can they can not improve Linux on the desktop since it becomes exceedingly difficult to reverse engineer the multitude of hardware available for the x86 platform. Knowing that, clearly you are a slave to an operating system for scoio-political reasons and nothing else. You may pay a premium for PC hardware from Apple but even in the higher prices there are tangible benefits like a visually appealing piece of hardware, decent resale value and in person technical support(both hardware and software) for 1-3 years across the globe. In addition your choice of supported hardware and software is greatly increased. Naturally if you argue that I only do such and such, this is not what the vast majority of people do with the tool and secondly if this is true perhaps you really don't need this kind of tool and could probably do fine with a SE Smart Phone. My original post was merely a related comment on the person switching to Vista. Considering this LUG functions at least sometimes as a Linux advocacy group I thought my posting may have been of interest to the community. Anyways, I'm off to the Apple Store to look at gadgets. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 01:03:37 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:03:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? Message-ID: Hi guys, this is a Canadian question I guess. What does one do to prevent the laptop's hdd to get under the dew point temperature such that dew forms on it when entering a heated space after being outside (in carry bag) for a while ? The short answer is don't do that. The long answer is wait 30+ minutes for the temperature of the hdd to get above the dew point. Any more answers ? I am tempted to put a heatpack (hand warmer, the kind one pops a disk in a bag in to start it) in the laptop carry-bag. Has anyone tried this ? With -12 C in .to 15 minutes outside will get the hardware under the dew point for sure. Soundly engineered type answers get extra virtual brownie points here. Btw a working laptop may stay warm enough inside not to need this, I think. Wasting battery power to keep the thing warm will not be good. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 01:11:26 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 20:11:26 -0500 Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> Have you checked the temperature inside the bag? How about some extra padding? I don't generally lug my laptop around everywhere, but I *do* have a bag with a bunch of other electronics (digital camera, etc) and none of it really seems to get all that cold unless I'm out for quite an extended period of time (several hours). Even being about for about an hour I don't notice notice any condensation on the camera if I bring it out inside right away (though I do notice it fogging if I try to use it *outside* because it's still too warm compared to the environment). "Dew Point" isn't something I've really thought about in the past myself though, since before coming to Toronto I lived in a dry (semi-arid/desert) city. On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Peter wrote: > Hi guys, > > this is a Canadian question I guess. What does one do to prevent the laptop's > hdd to get under the dew point temperature such that dew forms on it when > entering a heated space after being outside (in carry bag) for a while ? The > short answer is don't do that. The long answer is wait 30+ minutes for the > temperature of the hdd to get above the dew point. Any more answers ? I am > tempted to put a heatpack (hand warmer, the kind one pops a disk in a bag in to > start it) in the laptop carry-bag. Has anyone tried this ? With -12 C in .to 15 > minutes outside will get the hardware under the dew point for sure. Soundly > engineered type answers get extra virtual brownie points here. Btw a working > laptop may stay warm enough inside not to need this, I think. Wasting battery > power to keep the thing warm will not be good. > > thanks, > Peter > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 01:12:38 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 20:12:38 -0500 Subject: sound from flv? In-Reply-To: References: <012401c9712f$080581b0$18108510$@com> <20090108154156.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20090109003911.GA931@watson-wilson.ca> <4966B172.5060508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901091712j19e5e0cbw1fe91645e3162dad@mail.gmail.com> Wow! I didn't even know that mplayer could read FLV's. How long has it been able to do that?? On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jan 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> Is there a way to extract just sound only from these silly flash movies? > > mplayer -vo null -ao pcm:file=output.wav input.flv > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster > =================================================================== > Author: > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 01:23:19 2009 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 20:23:19 -0500 Subject: Decent webcam @ Futureshop/BestBuy In-Reply-To: <1f13df280901091021s3eb531bevf6b06ba05b678c47-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4960DB12.6040705@telly.org> <1f13df280901091021s3eb531bevf6b06ba05b678c47@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200901092023.19741.mervc@eol.ca> On January 9, 2009, Giles Orr wrote: > I've been considering buying one of these for the last couple days > after Evan's recommendation, and went to Future Shop today to do so. > I was pleasantly surprised to find they're on special (for what period > I don't know) for $24.99, or $28.24 with taxes. The Future Shop at > the North York Centre has a good stack of them. > > Haven't tried it with Linux yet. I dropped by Best Buy today and their price is $31.99. Odd, I have often found them to be a bit less than Furureshop. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 01:27:48 2009 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 20:27:48 -0500 Subject: Microsoft GPS In-Reply-To: <4967A5E0.9040709-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> <4967A5E0.9040709@telly.org> Message-ID: <200901092027.48851.mervc@eol.ca> On January 9, 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote: Thanks for the pointers Evan. Cheers -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 01:28:13 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:28:13 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> <20090109214154.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4967F9AD.9040804@utoronto.ca> Kamran Khan wrote: > Well the Open Source Community lives in one Universe the rest of the > world lives in another. Last time I checked, half the websites on the web use apache, and I'm sure almost every email you send passes through a mailserver running Linux somewhere along the line. Quite an intrusion of one universe into another. Asking companies to completely open source > their software and platforms is ridiculous. There is a lot of > information to be gleaned from open source and open specs, some of it > trade secrets, some of it just plain hard work to figure out, some of it > work figure out and some of it trivial. Tell that to Sun, you might be interested in a very innovative filesystem they invented called ZFS. Having said that, would you go > to a Chef and ask him to give you his best recipes for free? Some of > his recipe will be secret, some will be plain hard workto figure out, > some just work to figure out and some just trivial. Put it all together > and you have a dish that people from miles around will come to and pay > handsomely for. I'd ask, no harm in trying. I know of a few people who are happy to go to the Linuxcaffe for the open source hot chocolate rather than buy the same ingredients and make it themselves. Part of what's great about FOSS is that you can find that original author and draw upon their expertise if you need it. The Open Source Community is advocating a business > model that the rest of world doesn't follow and would outright reject. Tell that to Redhat. Tell that to the legions of web developers who design websites with open source frameworks and who contribute their work back to the community only to find someone else who hires them for their expertise despite their having released a module or theme for others to use freely. > The problem started when people starting politicizing, of all things, > computer technology. Stallman et al have brought a philosophy that > belongs on a hippie commune into the realm of computer technology. What is the problem with being exactly? We're political creatures. Moreover, technology, in whatever form, cannot exist without some agent to make it useful, be it an individual or society. Are you claiming that technology is or should be value neutral? If so, why should that be the case? > people expect to paid for their work and technology companies are no > different. They have shareholders, they have employees and they have > multi-national interests that dictate they turn a profit. Again, tell that to Redhat. Tell that to the people on this list who work for technology companies programming open source software who get paid for it. > once you pay for it but do you actually expect to get the engineering > diagrams, technical specifications and manufacturing techniques as > well? No one that I know of sells a car like that, sounds like a good opportunity. On a smaller scale, tell that to the OpenMoko people, or to the makers of the Arduino. Again, the example of web content management systems comes to mind. You get the whole package, and you can even hire the original developer if you want more and don't want to do it yourself. The bottom line is cloud computing and virtualization technology > have pretty much made this entire discussion pointless. Microsoft isn't > going away anytime soon and neither is Linux. With cloud computing > and virtualization technology everyone gets to play and looks like > Microsoft well get to play a lot. As for Apple. their future looks grey > but for now it is the best desktop platform going. No need to be dismissive, you raise some interesting questions and objections. Also, "the cloud" isn't a panacea, desktops, servers, and mobile devices will have their current roles for a while yet. That and many businesses have to have end to end control over their information and infrastructure, that's something that the cloud cannot provide. I agree, virtualization is great. I can check websites and code that I build on Linux in IE and make sure that the same python code or css I wrote on Linux works with python and IE, Safari, Firefox on Windows and OSX. I don't see any reason to exclude those platforms, so I don't see why there's any reason to dismiss Linux either. > As for my assumptions. Yes I assume that people view computers as > tools. It is a tool to get something done. If you look at operating > systems strictly from that assumption, which most people do, clearly you > must make significant sacrifices to run Linux. And the same goes for other operating systems, as others have pointed out. I would like to know what "significant" sacrifice I've made in using Linux that is such a problem. Clearly, seems a bit presumptuous. Ultimately you are > running an operating system that is largely licensed under the GPL but > most people can not even understand how the code works and for the few > that can they can not improve Linux on the desktop since it becomes > exceedingly difficult to reverse engineer the multitude of hardware > available for the x86 platform. Tell that to Michel Xhaard who wrote drivers for over 235 webcams on his own: http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/05/lone_programmer.html Knowing that, clearly you are a slave > to an operating system for scoio-political reasons and nothing else. At least knowing that Linux involves some king of socio-political aspect is more than I can say for other operating systems. That awareness can help avoid going down the road of technological determinism (something I hinted at earlier when discussing the political aspects of FOSS). Moreover, for those of us who work with open source professionally, there's an economic incentive to continue working with it. At the end of the day it pays the bills too. Can't I be free to make that choice or am I making a sacrifice there too? > You may pay a premium for PC hardware from Apple but even in the higher > prices there are tangible benefits like a visually appealing piece of > hardware, Debatable. To me 72dpi fonts look like crap on any screen. To others, they're fine. decent resale value and in person technical support(both > hardware and software) for 1-3 years across the globe. You pay for that, just like you can pay for support from Redhat, Novell, Canonical. > choice of supported hardware and software is greatly increased. Show us some verifiable statistics to back up that claim. > Naturally if you argue that I only do such and such, this is not what > the vast majority of people do with the tool and secondly if this is > true perhaps you really don't need this kind of tool and could probably > do fine with a SE Smart Phone. I'd like to know more about this vast majority and what they do. Shades of determinism again. Gate's comment about 640k of memory comes to mind. It isn't about need. It is about making novel uses of technology. A professor of mine once noted that "Invention is the mother of necessity," and I think that glib phrase is especially relevant here. People do really interesting things with technology that its designers didn't have in mind. FOSS is a great way to build technology that helps that kind of innovation happen. Again, I'll mention the Arduino as a perfect example of a combined hardware and software tool that can be used and built upon by anyone. > My original post was merely a related comment on the person switching to > Vista. Considering this LUG functions at least sometimes as a Linux > advocacy group I thought my posting may have been of interest to the > community. Seems like there have been a fair number of reasonable responses indicating interest. > Anyways, I'm off to the Apple Store to look at gadgets. Don't spend too much :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 03:55:35 2009 From: linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kamran Khan) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 22:55:35 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4967F9AD.9040804-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> <20090109214154.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873@gmail.com> <4967F9AD.9040804@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 9-Jan-09, at 8:28 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Kamran Khan wrote: >> Well the Open Source Community lives in one Universe the rest of >> the world lives in another. > > Last time I checked, half the websites on the web use apache, and > I'm sure almost every email you send passes through a mailserver > running Linux somewhere along the line. Quite an intrusion of one > universe into another. You missed the point. I am talking about the model the Open Source Community wants the world to adhere to. I don't want to go with this endless banter with these silly counter points. The only thing I found interesting is that you would go and ask a chef for a valuable recipe for free. What kind of man doesn't even want to pay someone for his work. You people are scary. If you want to be zealots of Linux by all means huddle at the Linux Caffe, I'll gladly spend my money at the Apple Store. It is just operating systems to most people. You really don't know what you are talking about when it comes to virtualization, Novell, cloud computing, IBM etc. The reason I say I do because I spent months with both of them and I have an excellent idea of what they intend with all of the technologies including Linux. Furthermore I generally find that I have little use for the banter on the LUG and in retrospect I should have not posted anything that you Linux zealots find contrary to your cause. Sit in your Linux corner, let the Microsoft people sit in theirs, let the Apple people in theirs. I'll continue to bounce to better and better platforms. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 04:05:08 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:05:08 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> <20090109214154.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49681E74.7020600@dinamis.com> Kamran Khan wrote: > Well the Open Source Community lives in one Universe the rest of the > world lives in another. Asking companies to completely open source > their software and platforms is ridiculous. There is a lot of > information to be gleaned from open source and open specs, some of it > trade secrets, some of it just plain hard work to figure out, some of it > work figure out and some of it trivial. Having said that, would you go > to a Chef and ask him to give you his best recipes for free? Some of > his recipe will be secret, some will be plain hard workto figure out, > some just work to figure out and some just trivial. Put it all together > and you have a dish that people from miles around will come to and pay > handsomely for. Many chefs do exactly what you think they aren't doing, they're "open sourcing" their recipes in the form of cookbooks and I'll bet not one of them is put out of business just because they published a recipe in a cookbook. Just because you can follow a Jamie Oliver recipe to the letter doesn't necessarily mean that you can cook at all, much less cook like him. > The Open Source Community is advocating a business > model that the rest of world doesn't follow and would outright reject. This is a sweeping over-generalization if there ever was one. Apparently, many companies have adopted some form of that model. My company does well using nothing but free software for building and hosting web applications and we contribute to some of those projects. No one forces us to use that software nor to contribute anything. We do it because it advances our interests. That's the beauty of the model. Does that mean that there is never room for proprietary software? No, and someone like Bruce Perens, whom I heard at the Design Exchange a few years ago, would tell you that there are cases where open source is appropriate and others where it may not be feasible. > The problem started when people starting politicizing, of all things, > computer technology. No, the problem started when stupid vendors thought that they had significant value add in printer drivers. The original inspiration for Stallman was when he couldn't modify the printer driver for some expensive printer, and they were all expensive back then, that he had purchased unlike the previous one where he had the source for the driver. When he called the company to get the source, he was told that it was "intellectual property". That left him with a printer that was *less* functional than the one it replaced. > Stallman et al have brought a philosophy that > belongs on a hippie commune into the realm of computer technology. Most > people expect to paid for their work and technology companies are no > different. They have shareholders, they have employees and they have > multi-national interests that dictate they turn a profit. Red Hat seems to be doing fine. And before you get too far down this path, your current darling, Apple, uses a lot of free software. Microsoft's TCP/IP stack is straight out of BSD. These companies don't hate free software. They hate a *particular* form it, GPL-licensed free software because they can't steal that. They *love* the BSD license because they can leech as much as they like with impunity. > You own a car > once you pay for it but do you actually expect to get the engineering > diagrams, technical specifications and manufacturing techniques as > well? The bottom line is cloud computing and virtualization technology > have pretty much made this entire discussion pointless. Utter nonsense. I don't see how virtualization does that. As for "cloud computing", that's just another vendor lock-in play. In any case, I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish by making these ill-informed and baseless assertions here. Perhaps you're trying to convince yourself that the premium you paid was worth it. If you think it is, then it is. I haven't chosen to pay that premium, though I have to admit I've considered it. The thing that consistently holds me back from buying a Mac is that I don't like their keyboards. I end up installing pretty much all the same stuff that I already use on Linux without any useful package manager. And the final straw, I dislike Apple's business practices. They've screwed their resellers many times. They screwed OEMs when Apple changed its mind about Mac clones. They screw users with their proprietary silos, like QuickTime. If Apple had the same market share as Microsoft, I have no doubt it would be an even more evil company. > Microsoft isn't > f going away anytime soon and neither is Linux. With cloud computing > and virtualization technology everyone gets to play and looks like > Microsoft well get to play a lot. It remains to be seen. Microsoft's future is not assured by any means. They're more vulnerable than they ever have been. They have to at least pretend to be "open" while at the same time ensuring they lock users into their proprietary silo. If their proprietary silo actually added some value, perhaps it would be justifiable but it doesn't. There is *nothing* that one could do on Windows that one cannot do on any other operating system, which is why they're trying to recast themselves as a "cloud computing" company. (And even if I cared about gaming, which I don't, I would just buy a game console instead of spending $3000 for some liquid-cooled monstrosity that I could run on a $400 console.) > As for Apple. their future looks grey > but for now it is the best desktop platform going. > > As for my assumptions. Yes I assume that people view computers as > tools. It is a tool to get something done. If you look at operating > systems strictly from that assumption, which most people do, clearly you > must make significant sacrifices to run Linux. I am not aware of any "significant sacrifice" I'm making to run Linux. In fact, I think it is hands-down the best developer platform right now. Windows is a totally impoverished platform for developers. To turn OS X into a productive development environment, I have to install a bunch of open source apps that I could have installed and managed easier on Linux anyway. I don't see the point. Outside of a few narrow cases, such as multimedia, and even that isn't as clear-cut as it used to be, I don't see any advantage of OS X over Linux. > Ultimately you are > running an operating system that is largely licensed under the GPL but > most people can not even understand how the code works and for the few > that can they can not improve Linux on the desktop since it becomes > exceedingly difficult to reverse engineer the multitude of hardware > available for the x86 platform. There would be no need to reverse-engineer if hardware manufacturers provided specs or drivers. There have been several initiatives to devise a universal driver format. The spoiler, predictably, has been Microsoft. > Knowing that, clearly you are a slave > to an operating system for scoio-political reasons and nothing else. Some people seem to think that the socio-political aspects of their actions are important. You are also making a socio-political statement. You just seem to be unaware of what it is. > You may pay a premium for PC hardware from Apple but even in the higher > prices there are tangible benefits like a visually appealing piece of > hardware, If a computer as a fashion accessory appeals to you, good for you. Some prefer to allocate their resources differently. > decent resale value I've never understood who actually buys a used but modern Apple machine since the asking prices are usually quite ridiculous and within spitting distance of a new one. Especially for notebook computers, which get jostled around, buying used is risky so I'd rather either offset that risk by getting something so cheap that it doesn't matter or just buying new. > and in person technical support(both > hardware and software) for 1-3 years across the globe. Unfortunately, their quality seems to be spotty and their warranties are just ridiculously-priced. I had a recent meeting with a client who was using a Lenovo ThinkPad whereas he had been using a new MacBook Pro the previous time I had seen him a few months prior. When I asked why he wasn't using the MBP with which he had been quite enamoured previously, he responded that it was back, for the second time, for warranty service at Apple because of random freezes caused by hardware. Apparently, this was a known problem for that model. I know computers fail but when people pay a premium, they expect a premium quality product. There is no evidence to support that Apple's products have any higher quality than any other manufacturer's and plenty of it to suggest that it isn't as high as the leaders. > In addition your > choice of supported hardware and software is greatly increased. ... if it has an Apple logo on it. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 04:48:03 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:48:03 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> <20090109214154.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873@gmail.com> <4967F9AD.9040804@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <49682883.4020208@utoronto.ca> Kamran Khan wrote: > > On 9-Jan-09, at 8:28 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> Kamran Khan wrote: >>> Well the Open Source Community lives in one Universe the rest of the >>> world lives in another. >> >> Last time I checked, half the websites on the web use apache, and I'm >> sure almost every email you send passes through a mailserver running >> Linux somewhere along the line. Quite an intrusion of one universe >> into another. > > You missed the point. You haven't really made one that I can respond to in a meaningful way. In one sentence, what exactly is it that you are trying to say about all of us? I am talking about the model the Open Source > Community wants the world to adhere to. I don't want to go with this > endless banter with these silly counter points. So why do you keep posting to this thread? Is Linux like a sore tooth in your mouth that you just have to keep going back to and poking despite the pain it causes you? Just can't stay away when there are functional members of society and companies who's thoughts, opinions, and desires are such an anathema to yours? Call them what you will, but you haven't posted any reasoned arguments supporting your claims, and I feel rather hard done by taking the time to post my objections only to be dismissed as engaging in silly banter :( Perhaps stepping back a little and interrogating why it is you have such an averse reaction to open source would get to the root idea of what it is that you're trying to say. The only thing I found > interesting is that you would go and ask a chef for a valuable recipe > for free. What kind of man doesn't even want to pay someone for his > work. You people are scary. If you want to be zealots of Linux by all > means huddle at the Linux Caffe, I'll gladly spend my money at the Apple > Store. It is just operating systems to most people. It must be something more to the people on this list, including yourself, why else would you keep trolling? You really don't > know what you are talking about when it comes to virtualization, Novell, > cloud computing, IBM etc. The reason I say I do because I spent months > with both of them and I have an excellent idea of what they intend with > all of the technologies including Linux. That's great, they have intentions. The rest of us are using and profiting from open source already. Specifically zen and kvm virtualization, notwithstanding Novel or IBM's intentions. Again, with open source, I don't have to care about what Novel or IBM intend, I can use it pretty much how I like, and am already. I eagerly await the latest and greatest from both to see what new innovations they come up with, but I don't have to use it, their intentions be damned. And I do get virtualization, I've been working at a hosting company who offer virtual Linux servers for 2 years now. Let me tell you, I'm really excited by the prospects of things like ZFS and Xen. Private network, Xen hosts with an attached ZFS pool = little cloud. There's a time and place for small and large, and I can't control amazon's s3 or ec2. Oh and note too that if either company you worked for canned any or all of their kernel developers, there's a large pool of talent and other companies to pick up the slack too, consider: http://lwn.net/Articles/222773/ Furthermore I generally find > that I have little use for the banter on the LUG and in retrospect I > should have not posted anything that you Linux zealots find contrary to > your cause. It sounds like our mere existence is contrary to your cause, which you've still failed to elucidate. Sit in your Linux corner, let the Microsoft people sit in > theirs, let the Apple people in theirs. I'll continue to bounce to > better and better platforms. That's exactly what we don't need. Divide and conquer is a pretty 19th and 20th century mindset. In fact, Microsoft tried it with Novell a few years back and RedHat is still alive and well. There is no reason people can't collaborate in a meaningful way regardless of their operating system of choice. That LWN.net link I posted above, take a good look at the various companies who should by all rights count each other as competitors. How is it that Novel, Redhat, IBM, Intel all employ people who commit to the Linux kernel, despite being competitors with each other? It's called collaboration, where every vendor has a shared interest in the successes of the others. It's also called competition, where each has a vested interest in offering better support or development than their competitors. Competition and collaboration, pretty powerful combination when you consider how much of everyone's day to day communication is conducted via open source software. Regards, Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 06:16:06 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:16:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Tyler Aviss writes: ... thanks for sharing that. I do have problems and I know they are bad (I am supposed to be wearing glasses but I don't wear them in winter because I would spend six months wiping condensation off of them every time I go inside). Dew point is the temperature of an object at which water from the atmosphere condenses on it. It forms a fogging layer on a lens and a deadly layer on a hard drive when the heads which are supposed to be flying a few microns above the platters plough into the water droplets condensed on it, creating furrows where your data will have been. When an aircraft is colder then the dew point and it flies through cloud it builds up so much ice that it falls down and kills a lot of people. For this reason aviation weather pays extremely much attention to the dew point, and 'icing conditions' (normally always when clear cold air leads to warm moist air in the flight path). Similar problems apply to power lines (see under 'freezing rain blackout' for details and recent examples). Military and scientific equipment that is meant to withstand this is canned in hermetic cans which are then blown with dry nitrogen or SF6 and also contain desiccants. The result is extremely dry air or inert gas which will not yield any dew inside no matter what is done to the box temperature-wise. In their immense wisdom (and penny scrounging) hdd makers have opted for non-hermetic cases (the little hole that says 'do not obstruct' is the connection to ambient air on most hard disks). This makes the cases cheaper (it will not try to blow up when you go up in an airplane and will not crumple or implode if you visit a deep mine or the dead sea). The short version: non-hermetic hdd's MUST be kept above the dew point at all times, the dew point being their death point. Conventional wisdom requires equipment that was exposed to cold to be allowed to adapt to the ambient temperature before turning it on, unless it is protected against dew. That is not an option when one walks outside with a laptop in a bag and then goes inside and expects to use it asap. The question was, how is this done by native canucks. I got some witty responses on IRC #electronics etc. One of them involved putting the laptop close to one's hairy body for warmth and pretending to have a *flat* rabbit in the pocket (one run down by a truck?) in case someone asks. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 07:08:48 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:08:48 -0500 Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49684980.50705@gmail.com> Peter wrote: > Dew point is the temperature of an object at which water from the atmosphere > condenses on it. It forms a fogging layer on a lens and a deadly layer on a hard > drive when the heads which are supposed to be flying a few microns above the > platters plough into the water droplets condensed on it, creating furrows where > Hard drive has vacuum inside. The outside air does not go inside. The problem still potentially exists since water may cause short-circuit on the surface where electronics is placed but I do not thing this is a serious problem. Make rather an experiment, take an old unused HD and see what happens. I guess that wrapping HD in a sort of plastic bag would protect it well enough. However, have in mind that wrapping it would also case poorer cooling by air, and there is a substantial amount of heat released on HD. Or you can spray it over the entire external electronics (except of connectors) by some sort of non-electricity conducting substance. Though I suspect this may be done already at factory. My friend put once a HD into his luggage when going by plain. They are stored in unheated compartment of airplaine and vacuum seeling got broken because of cold. He lost HD. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 12:54:44 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:54:44 -0500 Subject: Microsoft GPS In-Reply-To: <4967A5E0.9040709-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> <4967A5E0.9040709@telly.org> Message-ID: On 1/9/09, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Merv Curley wrote: >> Hi all >> >> I suppose Google would work but... >> >> My Microsoft Trips 2007/GPS has arrived from Factorydirect. Now that I >> have >> spent $30, what do I need? [ Do I curse Hugh or bless him for the $20 >> coupon?] >> > The value of having a computer-attached GPS is in the ability it gives > you to help participate in the Open Street Map Project: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page > > This is an attempt to duplicate the global mapping used in systems such > as Google Maps, but without their proprietary mapping data. > >> Never having used a GPS, does it only work in the great outdoors? It >> comes >> with a little suction cup, I assume this is stuck to a car windshield? >> > Correct. Using the Microsoft software, you could use that unit, plus > your computer, like a very large portable GPS system. > With Linux its value is to help CREATE data rather than just use it. See > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners'_Guide to find out how. Much of Perth, ON was mapped using a Microsoft GPS, laptop in the passenger front seat of a car, GPS sitting on the front dashboard. Bottom line with GPS units is that you want as clear a view of as much of the sky as possible all the time or you may run into no readings or bad readings. You can have issues with GPSs in canyons, be they ones created by mother nature in the wild, or the concrete canyons of a major city centre... When you have what amounts to a geographic wiki interestingly odd things can happen, like: www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=40.78377&lon=-119.20424&zoom=16&layers=00B0FTF The above is a map of part of the Nevada's Black Rock desert and for 50 weeks each year it is just ... desert. For just over one week each year it is home to the "Burning Man" arts festival (which concludes with the torching of a multi-story tall mannequin). So, people want to to note where things will be within this temporary festival site, with a geographic wiki that isn't an issue... This is the sort of thing that would not happen with the likes of say Google Maps. >> What Linux software is needed for the GPS. I think Colin has said but I >> can't find the post. >> > see > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Making_Tracks_with_Homebrew-ware#Linux > > The gpsd and associated packages are available as standard Ubuntu > packages, and I imagine they're available pre-packaged for other systems > as well. > >> if someone can just post where to go to find this kind of info, I would be >> >> appreciative. No need to spend time answering my niggling questions. >> > HTH. > > - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 15:37:56 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:37:56 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> <20090109214154.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090110103756.75b93408@teksavvy.com> Kamran Khan wrote: > My original post was merely a related comment on the person switching > to Vista. Then this is where you started out completely off base, and got even more so as time went on. The comment you are referring to had absolutely nothing to do with anyone 'switching' to Vista. Someone posted a comment that they had relented to _paying_ for Vista for one machine, everything else they do is still on Linux. Next time make sure you've aimed before you fire, eh? -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 15:46:04 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:46:04 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> <20090109214154.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090110104604.74af7f06@teksavvy.com> Kamran Khan wrote: > Knowing that, clearly you are a slave to an operating system for > scoio-political reasons and nothing else. This is just insulting. I can't believe people are still being polite with you. Get lost. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 15:52:55 2009 From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:52:55 -0500 Subject: RevCan and Linux/FireFox Message-ID: <732A0AA878724C2D83B714DCE0030703@plex20> It looks like Revenue Canada is getting serious about the types of operating systems and browsers they are going to support when you access your tax information online. Of course, our favourite O/S and browser isn't on the that list. Here is the message I received when I went to cra.gc.ca/myaccount and logged in using Ubuntu 8.10 and FireFox 3.05: "Important Notice: As of January 18, 2009, you will require a supported operating system, browser, and Java Virtual Machine (JVM) combination to access epass Canada. To find out if your system will be compatible, please click on the epass Notifications link above for more information." At one point, I thought that you tell FireFox to report false information to websites like "NT 5.0, IE6.0" etc., but I can't find how to do this in the latest version. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 17:27:07 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:27:07 -0500 Subject: RevCan and Linux/FireFox In-Reply-To: <4968D226.6030607-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <732A0AA878724C2D83B714DCE0030703@plex20> <4968D226.6030607@ss.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0901100927r2fcfd4dwda596374682c8fa4@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Scott Sullivan wrote: > Jon Thiele wrote: >> >> At one point, I thought that you tell FireFox to report false information >> to >> websites like "NT 5.0, IE6.0" etc., but I can't find how to do this in the >> latest version. > > There are plugins for switching the reported information, but this shouldn't > be your first course of action. > This is actually an example of a government organization discriminating > against a visible minority. This happened once before with the last Canadian > Census for it's online version. Our goverment should not be telling us which > OS and which Broswer we need to use to access their services, they need to > make sure we all have equal access. So before any one starts claiming their > running an OS their not, and in doing so giving them false data to say we're > not a significant percentage of the population, we should contact Revenue > Canada in regards to our rights. Essentially I agree... however I don't think "visible minority" is the right term to use. According to Wikipedia[1]: The term is used as a demographic category by Statistics Canada in connection with that country's multiculturalism policies, which are based on race rather than ethnicity. Visible minorities are defined by the Canadian Employment Equity Act as "persons, other than Aboriginals, who are non-Caucasian in race or non-white in colour." The definition specifically references race; I suspect there's a better word or phrase for representing "technological minorities." [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_minority -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 19:29:13 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:29:13 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> <20090109214154.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873@gmail.com> <4967F9AD.9040804@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4968F709.3030809@dinamis.com> Kamran Khan wrote: > > On 9-Jan-09, at 8:28 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> Kamran Khan wrote: >>> Well the Open Source Community lives in one Universe the rest of the >>> world lives in another. >> >> Last time I checked, half the websites on the web use apache, and I'm >> sure almost every email you send passes through a mailserver running >> Linux somewhere along the line. Quite an intrusion of one universe >> into another. > > You missed the point. I am talking about the model the Open Source > Community wants the world to adhere to. Part of the free software/open source, let's just call it FOSS, ethos is that there is no need to compel anyone to do anything. We only offer carrots, no sticks. Openness and avoidance of lock-in are the driving principles. Why does this threaten you? > I don't want to go with this > endless banter with these silly counter points. The only one who seems to be engaging in "silly counter points" is you. So far, all I've seen is troll-like behaviour on your part with lots of buzzwords and nonsense thrown around in a futile attempt to sound authoritative. > The only thing I found > interesting is that you would go and ask a chef for a valuable recipe > for free. What is wrong with that? Most chefs would be honoured to be asked and they can always refuse if they're silly enough to think that sharing their recipe will undermine their interests. > What kind of man doesn't even want to pay someone for his work. Who said that people shouldn't be paid for their work? Chefs don't get paid for recipes. They get paid to provide dining experiences. Besides, this is a poor analogy. There is no "vendor lock-in" with food, unless we're talking about genetically-engineered seeds but that wasn't the analogy. Apple and Microsoft are engaged in mortal combat to *own* you. They will do anything to lock out competitors in order to achieve monopoly status and if there is even a pretense of being open, it is only because of the people whom you deride. Now that you've asked, "What kind of man doesn't even want to pay someone for his work?", I trust that means you think the people who write free software, like KDE's Webkit, Kerberos, OpenLDAP, PostgreSQL, Postfix, Apache, and the BSD toolchain, should all be paid for their efforts. When will you be cutting cheques to all those projects seeing as your shiny new toy, OS X, depends on all of the preceding? > You people are scary. Shame on you! You really ought to know better than this. Do you have any idea how many people are subscribed to this list? How many of the people on this list whom you're so cavalierly insulting have you ever met face-to-face? I've met more than a few and can't recall any that could be characterized as "scary". You're the one who keeps saying, "It's just an operating system." so if you can make idiotic generalizations about large groups of people over something that you argue borders on inconsequential, you should be able to understand how people can make sweeping and wrong generalizations about people of your ancestry, for example. I'll bet you don't like it when people do that. Why would you engage in the same behaviour that you would understandably condemn in others? I think you really ought to examine yourself critically to understand your hostility towards this group. > If you want to be zealots of Linux by all > means huddle at the Linux Caffe, I'll gladly spend my money at the Apple > Store. "Let them eat cake at the Linuxcaffe! I'll spend my money on shiny Apple baubles." > It is just operating systems to most people. You really don't > know what you are talking about when it comes to virtualization, Novell, > cloud computing, IBM etc. I know Jamon. Rest assured he knows, as I do, what virtualization is because our respective companies use virtualization extensively. It is quite foolish to make these statements without knowing anything about the people whom you're attacking and I'm not even sure what point you were trying to make when you threw in "virtualization, Novell, cloud computing, IBM etc." > The reason I say I do because I spent months > with both of them and I have an excellent idea of what they intend with > all of the technologies including Linux. OK, so you "spent months with both of them" and read some buzzword-laden articles. Good for you. What have you done with it, other than fulminate here? And both of what? You enumerated four things with an "etc." thrown in for good measure. It's just an incoherent rant. > Furthermore I generally find > that I have little use for the banter on the LUG and in retrospect I > should have not posted anything that you Linux zealots find contrary to > your cause. I guess burning bridges here is your way of making sure you're committed to OS X. I just did a cursory search of my TLUG mailbox to skim what you've posted and noticed that you've received a bit of help from the very people whom you're now insulting. Ingrate. As Mark Twain famously said, "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." > Sit in your Linux corner, let the Microsoft people sit in > theirs, let the Apple people in theirs. I'll continue to bounce to > better and better platforms. All this sounds like buyer's remorse to me. By being, as a Turkish saying goes, "a bigger supporter of the king than the king", you're rationalizing the purchase of your Mac. Enjoy your Mac but please remember to send in those cheques to the various projects upon which OS X was built. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 18:23:13 2009 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:23:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: RevCan and Linux/FireFox Message-ID: <200901101823.n0AINDTF006498@gc0.generalconcepts.com> | This is actually an example of a government organization discriminating | against a visible minority. Hey - good joke! The site says: Red Hat Fedora Core 8 and Ubuntu 7.10 Firefox 2.0.0.6 or higher (version 3.x is not supported at this time), which sure makes it look like they plan to support Firefox 3, but just haven't been able to yet. | Our goverment should not be | telling us which OS and which Broswer we need to use to access their | services, they need to make sure we all have equal access. Damn right! I demand that they support the original CERN "WorldWideWeb" browser on my NeXT cube! Javascript? SSL? Inline graphics? Who needs 'em?! | we should contact Revenue Canada in regards to our rights. You do have a great sense of humour! Thanks! John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 23:44:05 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:44:05 -0500 Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496932C5.8040508@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > Hi guys, > > this is a Canadian question I guess. What does one do to prevent the laptop's > hdd to get under the dew point temperature such that dew forms on it when > entering a heated space after being outside (in carry bag) for a while ? The > short answer is don't do that. The long answer is wait 30+ minutes for the > temperature of the hdd to get above the dew point. Any more answers ? I am > tempted to put a heatpack (hand warmer, the kind one pops a disk in a bag in to > start it) in the laptop carry-bag. Has anyone tried this ? With -12 C in .to 15 > minutes outside will get the hardware under the dew point for sure. Soundly > engineered type answers get extra virtual brownie points here. Btw a working > laptop may stay warm enough inside not to need this, I think. Wasting battery > power to keep the thing warm will not be good. > > I've often used a computer shortly after bringing it in from the cold without issue. I could be wrong, but I believe disk drives are sealed and don't admit ambient air. There was one disk drive model I used to service many years ago, that was filled with helium. After opening them up for service, they required a purge cycle to replace the air with helium. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 23:45:59 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:45:59 -0500 Subject: Decent webcam @ Futureshop/BestBuy In-Reply-To: <200901092023.19741.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4960DB12.6040705@telly.org> <1f13df280901091021s3eb531bevf6b06ba05b678c47@mail.gmail.com> <200901092023.19741.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <49693337.7030005@rogers.com> Merv Curley wrote: > On January 9, 2009, Giles Orr wrote: > >> I've been considering buying one of these for the last couple days >> after Evan's recommendation, and went to Future Shop today to do so. >> I was pleasantly surprised to find they're on special (for what period >> I don't know) for $24.99, or $28.24 with taxes. The Future Shop at >> the North York Centre has a good stack of them. >> >> Haven't tried it with Linux yet. >> > > I dropped by Best Buy today and their price is $31.99. Odd, I have often > found them to be a bit less than Furureshop. > > They were on sale at F.S.. Next week, they might be on sale at B.B. for the same price. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 10 23:56:34 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:56:34 -0500 Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? In-Reply-To: <49684980.50705-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> <49684980.50705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <496935B2.6060005@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Peter wrote: >> Dew point is the temperature of an object at which water from the >> atmosphere >> condenses on it. It forms a fogging layer on a lens and a deadly >> layer on a hard >> drive when the heads which are supposed to be flying a few microns >> above the >> platters plough into the water droplets condensed on it, creating >> furrows where >> > > Hard drive has vacuum inside. The outside air does not go inside. Ummm... If there was a vacuum, there wouldn't be any air to cause the heads to fly. > > The problem still potentially exists since water may cause > short-circuit on the surface where electronics is placed but I do not > thing this is a serious problem. Make rather an experiment, take an > old unused HD and see what happens. > > I guess that wrapping HD in a sort of plastic bag would protect it > well enough. However, have in mind that wrapping it would also case > poorer cooling by air, and there is a substantial amount of heat > released on HD. > > Or you can spray it over the entire external electronics (except of > connectors) by some sort of non-electricity conducting substance. > Though I suspect this may be done already at factory. > > My friend put once a HD into his luggage when going by plain. They are > stored in unheated compartment of airplaine and vacuum seeling got > broken because of cold. He lost HD. > I always take the computer as carry on luggage. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 00:09:28 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:09:28 -0500 Subject: RevCan and Linux/FireFox In-Reply-To: <4968D226.6030607-lxSQFCZeNF4@public.gmane.org> References: <732A0AA878724C2D83B714DCE0030703@plex20> <4968D226.6030607@ss.org> Message-ID: <496938B8.8000703@rogers.com> Scott Sullivan wrote: > Jon Thiele wrote: >> At one point, I thought that you tell FireFox to report false >> information to >> websites like "NT 5.0, IE6.0" etc., but I can't find how to do this >> in the >> latest version. > There are plugins for switching the reported information, but this > shouldn't be your first course of action. > This is actually an example of a government organization > discriminating against a visible minority. This happened once before > with the last Canadian Census for it's online version. Our goverment > should not be telling us which OS and which Broswer we need to use to > access their services, they need to make sure we all have equal > access. So before any one starts claiming their running an OS their > not, and in doing so giving them false data to say we're not a > significant percentage of the population, we should contact Revenue > Canada in regards to our rights. > And perhaps point out that requiring someone to use Microsoft software is to require them to support a convicted monopolist. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 00:29:33 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:29:33 -0500 Subject: mount: ntfs not recognised? In-Reply-To: <496935B2.6060005-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> <49684980.50705@gmail.com> <496935B2.6060005@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49693D6D.1060104@gmail.com> Computer of my friend got broken. Windows does not start and is not willing to be repaired. HD itself is more or less ok. He would loose a huge amount of valuable data if formatting was done. HD is of SATA type, while on my comp its IDE, so I can not connect it to my computer. I burned Centos 5.2 LiveCD and booted his computer from it. Works great. I can browse through one partition on his HD, sde1, but sde2 is not mounted automatically and when I try to mount it manually, I get the following error message: mount: unknown filesystem type 'ntfs' ntfs is shown as a filesystem type on that partition when using hardware manager. What should I think about that? Any ideas what next? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 00:37:19 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:37:19 -0500 Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? In-Reply-To: <496935B2.6060005-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> <49684980.50705@gmail.com> <496935B2.6060005@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49693F3F.8050204@gmail.com> James Knott wrote: > Ummm... If there was a vacuum, there wouldn't be any air to cause the > heads to fly. > Here is a good reference to support you: http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/op/packAir-c.html > I always take the computer as carry on luggage. > They do not object? No one asks for duty taxes? I would gladly take next time mine, its a small desktop (not a laptop) that would fit in. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 00:50:45 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:50:45 -0500 Subject: Microsoft GPS In-Reply-To: References: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> <4967A5E0.9040709@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090110195045.49e27458.tleslie@tcn.net> nice example of why this project may be preferable to the googlemaps, and such, this year my father got my wife and I a GPS for a present, i said TOMTOM, he was kinda "why?" i said, its linux, thats all i need to say, i didn't know if it was a good one or what, i just said, its the one i gotta have. So he got me a 920 (which i think was top of the line one at the time, except without any hookup to get traffic reports), then i told him that garmin is turning to linux for there top of the line stuff. He did research for a few months and got a TOMTOM 930 at boxing day. He smokes the Steve Jobs tobacco pretty heavy, so this actaully was surprizing, but he researched the hell out of the stuff an concluded (cause he has basically no budget issue), that the TOMTOM 930 rules. Anyways, i moved up to Thornbury, 15 km west of Bluemountain, and I was out for my first real exploring with my snowmobile today. I sort of got lost, and figure I gotta keep my 920 with me, when i go out. So now i mix this , with your hobby here, the updating of the open street project, and the talk of GPS's and such, and I conclude that here is what woule be nice: I cant very well have a laptop cracked open on my sled, and the TOMTOM is linux, and the kernel is available and appearently one can "hobby" with it. So is it not possible, or perhaps a good idea for someone to write, a peice of software that gets the linux GPS unit (in this case the TOMTOM series), to just work as the plugged in portable? i mean why do i want another machine tied to it? surely the unit itself can do everything? i got a 4GB flash card expansion, and about 3GB free on the built in flash. i'd love to be on the sled, and just have it data log , (and i think mine has accelerometers in it too), and then use it if i get lost and for "info" and when i get home, i can x-ref my "trip" to one of the other map projects to get the street names and then dump my data to the open project(s), that would be ideal, heck maybe there is meta data ability to specify good snowmobile routes? i found the link you gave kinda slow, i hope they expand there servers suffiencently as this grows, hate for the idea to die just because the service isnt "fast". also i found when you zoom out, it take a huge amount of time to calculate and show you the map - oh well, its probably a relatively new project, and I am sure they'll improve. but, yeah if i can just get my tomtom to data log, i will certainly love to dump my data to this openstreetmap project. Heck for my area, I could put in an insane amount of detail. -tl On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:54:44 -0500 "Colin McGregor" wrote: > On 1/9/09, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Merv Curley wrote: > >> Hi all > >> > >> I suppose Google would work but... > >> > >> My Microsoft Trips 2007/GPS has arrived from Factorydirect. Now that I > >> have > >> spent $30, what do I need? [ Do I curse Hugh or bless him for the $20 > >> coupon?] > >> > > The value of having a computer-attached GPS is in the ability it gives > > you to help participate in the Open Street Map Project: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page > > > > This is an attempt to duplicate the global mapping used in systems such > > as Google Maps, but without their proprietary mapping data. > > > >> Never having used a GPS, does it only work in the great outdoors? It > >> comes > >> with a little suction cup, I assume this is stuck to a car windshield? > >> > > Correct. Using the Microsoft software, you could use that unit, plus > > your computer, like a very large portable GPS system. > > With Linux its value is to help CREATE data rather than just use it. See > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners'_Guide to find out how. > > Much of Perth, ON was mapped using a Microsoft GPS, laptop in the > passenger front seat of a car, GPS sitting on the front dashboard. > Bottom line with GPS units is that you want as clear a view of as much > of the sky as possible all the time or you may run into no readings or > bad readings. You can have issues with GPSs in canyons, be they ones > created by mother nature in the wild, or the concrete canyons of a > major city centre... > > When you have what amounts to a geographic wiki interestingly odd > things can happen, like: > > www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=40.78377&lon=-119.20424&zoom=16&layers=00B0FTF > > The above is a map of part of the Nevada's Black Rock desert and for > 50 weeks each year it is just ... desert. For just over one week each > year it is home to the "Burning Man" arts festival (which concludes > with the torching of a multi-story tall mannequin). So, people want to > to note where things will be within this temporary festival site, with > a geographic wiki that isn't an issue... This is the sort of thing > that would not happen with the likes of say Google Maps. > > >> What Linux software is needed for the GPS. I think Colin has said but I > >> can't find the post. > >> > > see > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Making_Tracks_with_Homebrew-ware#Linux > > > > The gpsd and associated packages are available as standard Ubuntu > > packages, and I imagine they're available pre-packaged for other systems > > as well. > > > >> if someone can just post where to go to find this kind of info, I would be > >> > >> appreciative. No need to spend time answering my niggling questions. > >> > > HTH. > > > > - Evan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 01:10:48 2009 From: echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:10:48 -0500 Subject: mount: ntfs not recognised? In-Reply-To: <49693D6D.1060104-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> <49684980.50705@gmail.com> <496935B2.6060005@rogers.com> <49693D6D.1060104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49694718.1040204@teksavvy.com> Ubuntu reads ntfs - this opinion is based on reading my XP from Ubuntu on ny new Aspire :) Parted says the XP is ntfs. Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Computer of my friend got broken. Windows does not start and is not > willing to be repaired. HD itself is more or less ok. He would loose a > huge amount of valuable data if formatting was done. HD is of SATA type, > while on my comp its IDE, so I can not connect it to my computer. > > I burned Centos 5.2 LiveCD and booted his computer from it. Works great. > I can browse through one partition on his HD, sde1, but sde2 is not > mounted automatically and when I try to mount it manually, I get the > following error message: > > mount: unknown filesystem type 'ntfs' > > ntfs is shown as a filesystem type on that partition when using hardware > manager. > > What should I think about that? Any ideas what next? > > zb. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 01:16:25 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:16:25 -0500 Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? In-Reply-To: <49693F3F.8050204-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> <49684980.50705@gmail.com> <496935B2.6060005@rogers.com> <49693F3F.8050204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49694869.3000505@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Ummm... If there was a vacuum, there wouldn't be any air to cause the >> heads to fly. >> > Here is a good reference to support you: > > http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/op/packAir-c.html > >> I always take the computer as carry on luggage. >> > They do not object? No one asks for duty taxes? I would gladly take > next time mine, its a small desktop (not a laptop) that would fit in. > I've never taken it out of Canada. However, if you're taking something valuable out of the country, you can record it on a "green card" which gets stamped by customs. However, my work computer is an old Dell laptop, so I guess they wouldn't worry about it. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 01:23:55 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:23:55 -0500 Subject: Microsoft GPS In-Reply-To: <20090110195045.49e27458.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> <4967A5E0.9040709@telly.org> <20090110195045.49e27458.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <49694A2B.1060006@rogers.com> ted leslie wrote: > Anyways, i moved up to Thornbury, 15 km west of Bluemountain I did some work in Thornbury a few months ago. I set up a system for a company called "Breaker Technology" to extend their PBX to a new location, via IP over fibre. When someone asks me where Thornbury is, I tell them it's just north of Clarksburg. ;-) BTW, I have used my GPS on those trips. The highest point in this part of Ontario is just north of Shelburne -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 01:24:06 2009 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 02:24:06 +0100 Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? In-Reply-To: <49693F3F.8050204-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> <49684980.50705@gmail.com> <496935B2.6060005@rogers.com> <49693F3F.8050204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49694A36.6020501@gmail.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Ummm... If there was a vacuum, there wouldn't be any air to cause the >> heads to fly. >> > Here is a good reference to support you: > > http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/op/packAir-c.html > >> I always take the computer as carry on luggage. >> > They do not object? No one asks for duty taxes? I would gladly take next > time mine, its a small desktop (not a laptop) that would fit in. You're always taking a chance when you travel with a machine. It might be searched, dismantled, taken to be searched in their lab. Whatever else they like. For duty, if it looks shiny and new, you *should* keep a receipt or something to "prove" that you're not subject to duty. It depends on the machine, the country and your appearance. Again... you're always taking a chance when you travel with a machine. You're not protected against anything except some pretty extreme human rights violations at a border crossing. The argument I've heard is that you're not in the country until you clear customs, so you're not protected by any constitution until you clear customs. That said, a friend of mine packed her mac mini in carry-on from Europe and back. No problems, no questions, no receipt, and it was only a few months old. The only borders I've heard of where they seem to care about computers are the U.S. and Cuba. At the U.S. border, they may want to search your files. I've never heard of this happening to anyone I know, but it's been in the news enough to worry people. At the Cuban border, they just want to make sure the machine is registered because they don't want it imported... they don't like people having unfiltered Internet access. Before crossing a border, back up your files, encrypt your drive and be prepared to lose your machine if you don't decrypt your files for them. I'd like to think that regardless of what else was on your boot menu, booting to an unencrypted install would let the border guard tick off his little "ok" checkbox and everyone can feel good about doing their part to stop terrorists. Just normal travel stuff. I hope these laws get changed soon. They're warped. I think it's analogous to your personal diary... for the safety of the flight, I can undestand x-raying it, opening it, shake the pages, then closing it. But to take it away or to make a copy to read at your leisure is insane. Realistically, nothing will probably happen. Probably. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 01:30:08 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:30:08 -0500 Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? In-Reply-To: <49694A36.6020501-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> <49684980.50705@gmail.com> <496935B2.6060005@rogers.com> <49693F3F.8050204@gmail.com> <49694A36.6020501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49694BA0.5070706@rogers.com> Mike Kallies wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> James Knott wrote: >> >>> Ummm... If there was a vacuum, there wouldn't be any air to cause the >>> heads to fly. >>> >>> >> Here is a good reference to support you: >> >> http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/op/packAir-c.html >> >> >>> I always take the computer as carry on luggage. >>> >>> >> They do not object? No one asks for duty taxes? I would gladly take next >> time mine, its a small desktop (not a laptop) that would fit in. >> > > You're always taking a chance when you travel with a machine. It might > be searched, dismantled, taken to be searched in their lab. Whatever > else they like. > > If they did that to my work computer, an old Dell Inspiron, they'd be doing me a favour. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 02:12:26 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:12:26 -0500 Subject: Microsoft GPS In-Reply-To: <20090110195045.49e27458.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> <4967A5E0.9040709@telly.org> <20090110195045.49e27458.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On 1/10/09, ted leslie wrote: > nice example of why this project may be preferable to the googlemaps, and > such, > > this year my father got my wife and I a GPS for > a present, i said TOMTOM, he was kinda "why?" > i said, its linux, thats all i need to say, > i didn't know if it was a good one or what, > i just said, its the one i gotta have. > So he got me a 920 (which i think was top of the line one at the > time, except without any hookup to get traffic reports), > then i told him that garmin is turning to linux for there top of the line > stuff. > He did research for a few months and got a TOMTOM 930 at boxing day. > He smokes the Steve Jobs tobacco pretty heavy, > so this actaully was surprizing, but he researched the hell > out of the stuff an concluded (cause he has basically no budget issue), > that the TOMTOM 930 rules. > Anyways, i moved up to Thornbury, 15 km west of Bluemountain, > and I was out for my first real exploring with my snowmobile today. > I sort of got lost, and figure I gotta keep my 920 with me, > when i go out. > So now i mix this , with your hobby here, the updating of the open street > project, > and the talk of GPS's and such, and I conclude that here is what woule be > nice: > > I cant very well have a laptop cracked open on my sled, > and the TOMTOM is linux, and the kernel is available > and appearently one can "hobby" with it. > > So is it not possible, or perhaps a good idea for someone to write, > a peice of software that gets the linux GPS unit (in this case the TOMTOM > series), > to just work as the plugged in portable? i mean why do i want another > machine tied to it? > surely the unit itself can do everything? > i got a 4GB flash card expansion, and about 3GB free on the built in flash. Well, off hand I don't know about the Tomtom GPS units, but I have (long story), the long term loan of a Garmin Vista HCx GPS. This Garmin model can record GPS tracks on to a flash memory card, which can then be downloaded on to your PC (USB port on the unit). The unit will run for quite a few hours off of 2 AA size batteries. The track files are readable by the JOSM Open Street Map editing program. So, for things like tracking the banks of the Tay River in Perth, Ontario (where the Microsoft GPS ... would not be a lot of use), the Garmin is great. Flip side of this, the Microsoft GPS is a LOT cheaper than the Garmin, so, if you have a car / truck / etc., and want to try mapping the Microsoft option is great... > i'd love to be on the sled, and just have it data log , (and i think mine > has accelerometers in it too), > and then use it if i get lost and for "info" and when i get home, i can > x-ref my "trip" > to one of the other map projects to get the street names and then dump my > data to the > open project(s), that would be ideal, heck maybe there is meta data ability > to specify good snowmobile routes? Well, on of the central points of OSM is to ONLY ever refer to non-proprietary data sources. So, walking around collecting names off street signs is fine, going to one of commercial maps or other copyright protected sources is UNACCEPTABLE. The OSM people have permission to use data from Landsat sat. photos and some Yahoo aerial photos (Landsat offers the whole world in poor detail, Yahoo offers excellent detail, but only in a limited number of places). Further, since I have been looking at this sort of thing it is an odd funny/scary just how many errors I have seen in commercial maps. Word is that some map companies deliberately add errors in order to catch people copying... Yes, I have on rare occasion caught errors in OSM, but at least those errors I could fix. > i found the link you gave kinda slow, i hope they expand there servers > suffiencently as this grows, > hate for the idea to die just because the service isnt "fast". > also i found when you zoom out, it take a huge amount of time to calculate > and show you the map - > oh well, its probably a relatively new project, and I am sure they'll > improve. Well, OSM has caught on at different rates in different nations. Have a look at the level of detail available in Germany at some point. Holland and the UK are almost as good as Germany. Data from the US Census Bureau has been added to OSM, which overall is good, but the US Census people are not interest in roads that don't have people, and in some areas the Census people were ... sloppy, some roads that are arcs on the ground got entered as straight lines... In other words in the US, the issue is, spot errors, spot incomplete areas, add more detail... A deal was recently reached between the OSM people and the Canadian government so there will be at lot of Canadian data being added in the not to distant future. Mind you if the US example works out here, there will be a lot of detail still to be added / corrected... For example, when I was in Perth, ON, in Sept. I saw a small new housing development being built, but no way to drive down the new road for this development. When I was down in Perth at Christmas, the road was open to traffic, and thanks to me :-) , said road is now in OSM. Not really possible for commercial maps to keep that up to date, but for OSM, no problem... > but, yeah if i can just get my tomtom to data log, i will certainly love to > dump my data to this openstreetmap > project. Heck for my area, I could put in an insane amount of detail. Any data you can get from direct observation (be they readings off a GPS, or reading a street sign) or other non-proprietary sources would be appreciated. > -tl > > On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:54:44 -0500 > "Colin McGregor" wrote: > >> On 1/9/09, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> > Merv Curley wrote: >> >> Hi all >> >> >> >> I suppose Google would work but... >> >> >> >> My Microsoft Trips 2007/GPS has arrived from Factorydirect. Now that I >> >> have >> >> spent $30, what do I need? [ Do I curse Hugh or bless him for the $20 >> >> coupon?] >> >> >> > The value of having a computer-attached GPS is in the ability it gives >> > you to help participate in the Open Street Map Project: >> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page >> > >> > This is an attempt to duplicate the global mapping used in systems such >> > as Google Maps, but without their proprietary mapping data. >> > >> >> Never having used a GPS, does it only work in the great outdoors? It >> >> comes >> >> with a little suction cup, I assume this is stuck to a car windshield? >> >> >> > Correct. Using the Microsoft software, you could use that unit, plus >> > your computer, like a very large portable GPS system. >> > With Linux its value is to help CREATE data rather than just use it. See >> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners'_Guide to find out how. >> >> Much of Perth, ON was mapped using a Microsoft GPS, laptop in the >> passenger front seat of a car, GPS sitting on the front dashboard. >> Bottom line with GPS units is that you want as clear a view of as much >> of the sky as possible all the time or you may run into no readings or >> bad readings. You can have issues with GPSs in canyons, be they ones >> created by mother nature in the wild, or the concrete canyons of a >> major city centre... >> >> When you have what amounts to a geographic wiki interestingly odd >> things can happen, like: >> >> www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=40.78377&lon=-119.20424&zoom=16&layers=00B0FTF >> >> The above is a map of part of the Nevada's Black Rock desert and for >> 50 weeks each year it is just ... desert. For just over one week each >> year it is home to the "Burning Man" arts festival (which concludes >> with the torching of a multi-story tall mannequin). So, people want to >> to note where things will be within this temporary festival site, with >> a geographic wiki that isn't an issue... This is the sort of thing >> that would not happen with the likes of say Google Maps. >> >> >> What Linux software is needed for the GPS. I think Colin has said but >> >> I >> >> can't find the post. >> >> >> > see >> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Making_Tracks_with_Homebrew-ware#Linux >> > >> > The gpsd and associated packages are available as standard Ubuntu >> > packages, and I imagine they're available pre-packaged for other systems >> > as well. >> > >> >> if someone can just post where to go to find this kind of info, I would >> >> be >> >> >> >> appreciative. No need to spend time answering my niggling questions. >> >> >> > HTH. >> > >> > - Evan >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > ted leslie > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 04:06:54 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 04:06:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? References: <496932C5.8040508@rogers.com> Message-ID: James Knott writes: > I've often used a computer shortly after bringing it in from the cold > without issue. I could be wrong, but I believe disk drives are sealed > and don't admit ambient air. There was one disk drive model I used to > service many years ago, that was filled with helium. After opening them > up for service, they required a purge cycle to replace the air with helium. hdds do have a single small hole through which pressure equalization occurs. You can see it on most drives as it is marked (do not obstruct). Old big drives were indeed purged with dry gas for a number of reasons (two for using Helium being excellent heat transfer capacity and low density and viscosity which permits higher rpm for the same power, plus the dew thing). So in theory putting the hdd in a zip lock bag with silica gel and blowing it with dry air or nitrogen and then sealing the bag with silicone should do the trick. But I think that just using a hand warmer is a better interim solution. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 04:28:44 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:28:44 -0500 Subject: Microsoft GPS In-Reply-To: References: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> <4967A5E0.9040709@telly.org> <20090110195045.49e27458.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20090110232844.b99e1ada.tleslie@tcn.net> ah ok that makes it a bit harder (i.e. not borrowing from other sources), means i probably have to get the "Tracks", then at home place the googlemap (and maybe also mapquest) names to the traces, get a print out, then verify the names on another trip, and change anything (hopefully) very little, to the actual street names on the signs. (so as not to fall into any traps). i am not seeing any satellite photos (as layers) on OSM, even when i toggle all the layers on the (+) pullout, and i look in north US too, am I missing something? or is the satellite stuff still being hooked up in north America? i see people marking walking trails, washrooms, schools, etc, do you know how, if possible, one would mark "snowmobile routes" not on a licensed trail, and "snow mobile routes of a licensed trail" (if permit holder), kinda means having two other "pathing" colours (meta tagging) and having to explain it somewhere, or does OSM not really have the custom power yet? i could just imagine that if people start logging stuff like snowmobile trails, biking trails, etc, that would rarely come up no the commercial products, that eventually .. well.. screw the commercial products! :) seems like this OSM is a good candidate to be like Linux is to the OS world, ... to be (in time), at the end of the day, the best place to go for your mapping and GPS details! -tl On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:12:26 -0500 "Colin McGregor" wrote: > On 1/10/09, ted leslie wrote: > > nice example of why this project may be preferable to the googlemaps, and > > such, > > > > this year my father got my wife and I a GPS for > > a present, i said TOMTOM, he was kinda "why?" > > i said, its linux, thats all i need to say, > > i didn't know if it was a good one or what, > > i just said, its the one i gotta have. > > So he got me a 920 (which i think was top of the line one at the > > time, except without any hookup to get traffic reports), > > then i told him that garmin is turning to linux for there top of the line > > stuff. > > He did research for a few months and got a TOMTOM 930 at boxing day. > > He smokes the Steve Jobs tobacco pretty heavy, > > so this actaully was surprizing, but he researched the hell > > out of the stuff an concluded (cause he has basically no budget issue), > > that the TOMTOM 930 rules. > > Anyways, i moved up to Thornbury, 15 km west of Bluemountain, > > and I was out for my first real exploring with my snowmobile today. > > I sort of got lost, and figure I gotta keep my 920 with me, > > when i go out. > > So now i mix this , with your hobby here, the updating of the open street > > project, > > and the talk of GPS's and such, and I conclude that here is what woule be > > nice: > > > > I cant very well have a laptop cracked open on my sled, > > and the TOMTOM is linux, and the kernel is available > > and appearently one can "hobby" with it. > > > > So is it not possible, or perhaps a good idea for someone to write, > > a peice of software that gets the linux GPS unit (in this case the TOMTOM > > series), > > to just work as the plugged in portable? i mean why do i want another > > machine tied to it? > > surely the unit itself can do everything? > > i got a 4GB flash card expansion, and about 3GB free on the built in flash. > > Well, off hand I don't know about the Tomtom GPS units, but I have > (long story), the long term loan of a Garmin Vista HCx GPS. This > Garmin model can record GPS tracks on to a flash memory card, which > can then be downloaded on to your PC (USB port on the unit). The unit > will run for quite a few hours off of 2 AA size batteries. The track > files are readable by the JOSM Open Street Map editing program. So, > for things like tracking the banks of the Tay River in Perth, Ontario > (where the Microsoft GPS ... would not be a lot of use), the Garmin is > great. > > Flip side of this, the Microsoft GPS is a LOT cheaper than the Garmin, > so, if you have a car / truck / etc., and want to try mapping the > Microsoft option is great... > > > i'd love to be on the sled, and just have it data log , (and i think mine > > has accelerometers in it too), > > and then use it if i get lost and for "info" and when i get home, i can > > x-ref my "trip" > > to one of the other map projects to get the street names and then dump my > > data to the > > open project(s), that would be ideal, heck maybe there is meta data ability > > to specify good snowmobile routes? > > Well, on of the central points of OSM is to ONLY ever refer to > non-proprietary data sources. So, walking around collecting names off > street signs is fine, going to one of commercial maps or other > copyright protected sources is UNACCEPTABLE. The OSM people have > permission to use data from Landsat sat. photos and some Yahoo aerial > photos (Landsat offers the whole world in poor detail, Yahoo offers > excellent detail, but only in a limited number of places). > > Further, since I have been looking at this sort of thing it is an odd > funny/scary just how many errors I have seen in commercial maps. Word > is that some map companies deliberately add errors in order to catch > people copying... Yes, I have on rare occasion caught errors in OSM, > but at least those errors I could fix. > > > i found the link you gave kinda slow, i hope they expand there servers > > suffiencently as this grows, > > hate for the idea to die just because the service isnt "fast". > > also i found when you zoom out, it take a huge amount of time to calculate > > and show you the map - > > oh well, its probably a relatively new project, and I am sure they'll > > improve. > > Well, OSM has caught on at different rates in different nations. Have > a look at the level of detail available in Germany at some point. > Holland and the UK are almost as good as Germany. Data from the US > Census Bureau has been added to OSM, which overall is good, but the US > Census people are not interest in roads that don't have people, and in > some areas the Census people were ... sloppy, some roads that are arcs > on the ground got entered as straight lines... In other words in the > US, the issue is, spot errors, spot incomplete areas, add more > detail... > > A deal was recently reached between the OSM people and the Canadian > government so there will be at lot of Canadian data being added in the > not to distant future. Mind you if the US example works out here, > there will be a lot of detail still to be added / corrected... > > For example, when I was in Perth, ON, in Sept. I saw a small new > housing development being built, but no way to drive down the new road > for this development. When I was down in Perth at Christmas, the road > was open to traffic, and thanks to me :-) , said road is now in OSM. > Not really possible for commercial maps to keep that up to date, but > for OSM, no problem... > > > but, yeah if i can just get my tomtom to data log, i will certainly love to > > dump my data to this openstreetmap > > project. Heck for my area, I could put in an insane amount of detail. > > Any data you can get from direct observation (be they readings off a > GPS, or reading a street sign) or other non-proprietary sources would > be appreciated. > > > -tl > > > > On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:54:44 -0500 > > "Colin McGregor" wrote: > > > >> On 1/9/09, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> > Merv Curley wrote: > >> >> Hi all > >> >> > >> >> I suppose Google would work but... > >> >> > >> >> My Microsoft Trips 2007/GPS has arrived from Factorydirect. Now that I > >> >> have > >> >> spent $30, what do I need? [ Do I curse Hugh or bless him for the $20 > >> >> coupon?] > >> >> > >> > The value of having a computer-attached GPS is in the ability it gives > >> > you to help participate in the Open Street Map Project: > >> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page > >> > > >> > This is an attempt to duplicate the global mapping used in systems such > >> > as Google Maps, but without their proprietary mapping data. > >> > > >> >> Never having used a GPS, does it only work in the great outdoors? It > >> >> comes > >> >> with a little suction cup, I assume this is stuck to a car windshield? > >> >> > >> > Correct. Using the Microsoft software, you could use that unit, plus > >> > your computer, like a very large portable GPS system. > >> > With Linux its value is to help CREATE data rather than just use it. See > >> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners'_Guide to find out how. > >> > >> Much of Perth, ON was mapped using a Microsoft GPS, laptop in the > >> passenger front seat of a car, GPS sitting on the front dashboard. > >> Bottom line with GPS units is that you want as clear a view of as much > >> of the sky as possible all the time or you may run into no readings or > >> bad readings. You can have issues with GPSs in canyons, be they ones > >> created by mother nature in the wild, or the concrete canyons of a > >> major city centre... > >> > >> When you have what amounts to a geographic wiki interestingly odd > >> things can happen, like: > >> > >> www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=40.78377&lon=-119.20424&zoom=16&layers=00B0FTF > >> > >> The above is a map of part of the Nevada's Black Rock desert and for > >> 50 weeks each year it is just ... desert. For just over one week each > >> year it is home to the "Burning Man" arts festival (which concludes > >> with the torching of a multi-story tall mannequin). So, people want to > >> to note where things will be within this temporary festival site, with > >> a geographic wiki that isn't an issue... This is the sort of thing > >> that would not happen with the likes of say Google Maps. > >> > >> >> What Linux software is needed for the GPS. I think Colin has said but > >> >> I > >> >> can't find the post. > >> >> > >> > see > >> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Making_Tracks_with_Homebrew-ware#Linux > >> > > >> > The gpsd and associated packages are available as standard Ubuntu > >> > packages, and I imagine they're available pre-packaged for other systems > >> > as well. > >> > > >> >> if someone can just post where to go to find this kind of info, I would > >> >> be > >> >> > >> >> appreciative. No need to spend time answering my niggling questions. > >> >> > >> > HTH. > >> > > >> > - Evan > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> > > > > > > -- > > ted leslie > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 04:57:34 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:57:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Internet at home without active phone line In-Reply-To: References: <4f9268790901051352k20956b18s363c32c8a3627b75@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jan 2009, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > I am now wondering whether it is possible to get the phone disconnection 1 > day before the DSL disconnection, so on the day DSL connection, no issue on > getting the dry-loop DSL connection setup. Will that work (means for 1 night > phone is disconnected but the DSL is not yet disconnected)? Based on my past experiences with Bell I would find it highly optimisitic if it worked that smoothly. Bell once killed our phone line for a week when they deprovisioned our DSL when the ISP went out of business. They even tried to deny it was their fault until I pointed out that I found that we lacked dialtone less than two hours after the DSL went offline. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 13:18:07 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 08:18:07 -0500 Subject: Microsoft GPS In-Reply-To: <20090110232844.b99e1ada.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> <4967A5E0.9040709@telly.org> <20090110195045.49e27458.tleslie@tcn.net> <20090110232844.b99e1ada.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On 1/10/09, ted leslie wrote: > ah ok that makes it a bit harder (i.e. not borrowing from other sources), > means i probably have to get the "Tracks", then at home place the googlemap > (and maybe also mapquest) > names to the traces, get a print out, then verify the names > on another trip, > and change anything (hopefully) very little, to the actual street names on > the signs. > (so as not to fall into any traps). Some of the OSM mappers take a camera and/or audio recorder and/or note pad along with them to keep notes about what they have seen, street names. For myself, I have been known to take a commercial map with me on a mapping run, and then scribble notes about what is/isn't right with the map as I travel (I take some pride in the number of commercial map errors caught :-) ). Bottom line though, if I don't see it, then it doesn't get entered... > i am not seeing any satellite photos (as layers) on OSM, even when i toggle > all the layers on the (+) pullout, > and i look in north US too, am I missing something? or is the satellite > stuff still being hooked up in north America? If you go into the Potlatch editing screen you will see Yahoo aerial photos (if they are available for the place in question, and Yahoo's coverage is limited), otherwise the Landsat sat. photos will be displayed. Toronto is covered by Yahoo photos, while Perth is only visible via Landsat. The Yahoo photos are good enough to make out individual streets, while Landsat aren't. > i see people marking walking trails, washrooms, schools, etc, > do you know how, if possible, one would mark > "snowmobile routes" not on a licensed trail, and "snow mobile routes of a > licensed trail" (if permit holder), > kinda means having two other "pathing" colours (meta tagging) and having to > explain it somewhere, > or does OSM not really have the custom power yet? You can enter anything, with any tag you want, but unless you use one of the "approved" tags it will not show up on the rendered map. The range of approved tags is slowly expanding and you can see a list of additions being proposed here: wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Proposed_features_"Proposed" > i could just imagine that if people start logging stuff like snowmobile > trails, biking trails, etc, > that would rarely come up no the commercial products, that eventually .. > well.. screw the commercial products! :) Bicycle routes are already part of the standard, and some of the bike routes inside Toronto are documented in OSM (though, not by me...). > seems like this OSM is a good candidate to be like Linux is to the OS world, > ... to be (in time), at the end of the day, > the best place to go for your mapping and GPS details! Yes. > -tl > > > On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:12:26 -0500 > "Colin McGregor" wrote: > >> On 1/10/09, ted leslie wrote: >> > nice example of why this project may be preferable to the googlemaps, >> > and >> > such, >> > >> > this year my father got my wife and I a GPS for >> > a present, i said TOMTOM, he was kinda "why?" >> > i said, its linux, thats all i need to say, >> > i didn't know if it was a good one or what, >> > i just said, its the one i gotta have. >> > So he got me a 920 (which i think was top of the line one at the >> > time, except without any hookup to get traffic reports), >> > then i told him that garmin is turning to linux for there top of the >> > line >> > stuff. >> > He did research for a few months and got a TOMTOM 930 at boxing day. >> > He smokes the Steve Jobs tobacco pretty heavy, >> > so this actaully was surprizing, but he researched the hell >> > out of the stuff an concluded (cause he has basically no budget issue), >> > that the TOMTOM 930 rules. >> > Anyways, i moved up to Thornbury, 15 km west of Bluemountain, >> > and I was out for my first real exploring with my snowmobile today. >> > I sort of got lost, and figure I gotta keep my 920 with me, >> > when i go out. >> > So now i mix this , with your hobby here, the updating of the open >> > street >> > project, >> > and the talk of GPS's and such, and I conclude that here is what woule >> > be >> > nice: >> > >> > I cant very well have a laptop cracked open on my sled, >> > and the TOMTOM is linux, and the kernel is available >> > and appearently one can "hobby" with it. >> > >> > So is it not possible, or perhaps a good idea for someone to write, >> > a peice of software that gets the linux GPS unit (in this case the >> > TOMTOM >> > series), >> > to just work as the plugged in portable? i mean why do i want another >> > machine tied to it? >> > surely the unit itself can do everything? >> > i got a 4GB flash card expansion, and about 3GB free on the built in >> > flash. >> >> Well, off hand I don't know about the Tomtom GPS units, but I have >> (long story), the long term loan of a Garmin Vista HCx GPS. This >> Garmin model can record GPS tracks on to a flash memory card, which >> can then be downloaded on to your PC (USB port on the unit). The unit >> will run for quite a few hours off of 2 AA size batteries. The track >> files are readable by the JOSM Open Street Map editing program. So, >> for things like tracking the banks of the Tay River in Perth, Ontario >> (where the Microsoft GPS ... would not be a lot of use), the Garmin is >> great. >> >> Flip side of this, the Microsoft GPS is a LOT cheaper than the Garmin, >> so, if you have a car / truck / etc., and want to try mapping the >> Microsoft option is great... >> >> > i'd love to be on the sled, and just have it data log , (and i think >> > mine >> > has accelerometers in it too), >> > and then use it if i get lost and for "info" and when i get home, i can >> > x-ref my "trip" >> > to one of the other map projects to get the street names and then dump >> > my >> > data to the >> > open project(s), that would be ideal, heck maybe there is meta data >> > ability >> > to specify good snowmobile routes? >> >> Well, on of the central points of OSM is to ONLY ever refer to >> non-proprietary data sources. So, walking around collecting names off >> street signs is fine, going to one of commercial maps or other >> copyright protected sources is UNACCEPTABLE. The OSM people have >> permission to use data from Landsat sat. photos and some Yahoo aerial >> photos (Landsat offers the whole world in poor detail, Yahoo offers >> excellent detail, but only in a limited number of places). >> >> Further, since I have been looking at this sort of thing it is an odd >> funny/scary just how many errors I have seen in commercial maps. Word >> is that some map companies deliberately add errors in order to catch >> people copying... Yes, I have on rare occasion caught errors in OSM, >> but at least those errors I could fix. >> >> > i found the link you gave kinda slow, i hope they expand there servers >> > suffiencently as this grows, >> > hate for the idea to die just because the service isnt "fast". >> > also i found when you zoom out, it take a huge amount of time to >> > calculate >> > and show you the map - >> > oh well, its probably a relatively new project, and I am sure they'll >> > improve. >> >> Well, OSM has caught on at different rates in different nations. Have >> a look at the level of detail available in Germany at some point. >> Holland and the UK are almost as good as Germany. Data from the US >> Census Bureau has been added to OSM, which overall is good, but the US >> Census people are not interest in roads that don't have people, and in >> some areas the Census people were ... sloppy, some roads that are arcs >> on the ground got entered as straight lines... In other words in the >> US, the issue is, spot errors, spot incomplete areas, add more >> detail... >> >> A deal was recently reached between the OSM people and the Canadian >> government so there will be at lot of Canadian data being added in the >> not to distant future. Mind you if the US example works out here, >> there will be a lot of detail still to be added / corrected... >> >> For example, when I was in Perth, ON, in Sept. I saw a small new >> housing development being built, but no way to drive down the new road >> for this development. When I was down in Perth at Christmas, the road >> was open to traffic, and thanks to me :-) , said road is now in OSM. >> Not really possible for commercial maps to keep that up to date, but >> for OSM, no problem... >> >> > but, yeah if i can just get my tomtom to data log, i will certainly love >> > to >> > dump my data to this openstreetmap >> > project. Heck for my area, I could put in an insane amount of detail. >> >> Any data you can get from direct observation (be they readings off a >> GPS, or reading a street sign) or other non-proprietary sources would >> be appreciated. >> >> > -tl >> > >> > On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:54:44 -0500 >> > "Colin McGregor" wrote: >> > >> >> On 1/9/09, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> >> > Merv Curley wrote: >> >> >> Hi all >> >> >> >> >> >> I suppose Google would work but... >> >> >> >> >> >> My Microsoft Trips 2007/GPS has arrived from Factorydirect. Now >> >> >> that I >> >> >> have >> >> >> spent $30, what do I need? [ Do I curse Hugh or bless him for the >> >> >> $20 >> >> >> coupon?] >> >> >> >> >> > The value of having a computer-attached GPS is in the ability it >> >> > gives >> >> > you to help participate in the Open Street Map Project: >> >> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page >> >> > >> >> > This is an attempt to duplicate the global mapping used in systems >> >> > such >> >> > as Google Maps, but without their proprietary mapping data. >> >> > >> >> >> Never having used a GPS, does it only work in the great outdoors? >> >> >> It >> >> >> comes >> >> >> with a little suction cup, I assume this is stuck to a car >> >> >> windshield? >> >> >> >> >> > Correct. Using the Microsoft software, you could use that unit, plus >> >> > your computer, like a very large portable GPS system. >> >> > With Linux its value is to help CREATE data rather than just use it. >> >> > See >> >> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners'_Guide to find out how. >> >> >> >> Much of Perth, ON was mapped using a Microsoft GPS, laptop in the >> >> passenger front seat of a car, GPS sitting on the front dashboard. >> >> Bottom line with GPS units is that you want as clear a view of as much >> >> of the sky as possible all the time or you may run into no readings or >> >> bad readings. You can have issues with GPSs in canyons, be they ones >> >> created by mother nature in the wild, or the concrete canyons of a >> >> major city centre... >> >> >> >> When you have what amounts to a geographic wiki interestingly odd >> >> things can happen, like: >> >> >> >> www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=40.78377&lon=-119.20424&zoom=16&layers=00B0FTF >> >> >> >> The above is a map of part of the Nevada's Black Rock desert and for >> >> 50 weeks each year it is just ... desert. For just over one week each >> >> year it is home to the "Burning Man" arts festival (which concludes >> >> with the torching of a multi-story tall mannequin). So, people want to >> >> to note where things will be within this temporary festival site, with >> >> a geographic wiki that isn't an issue... This is the sort of thing >> >> that would not happen with the likes of say Google Maps. >> >> >> >> >> What Linux software is needed for the GPS. I think Colin has said >> >> >> but >> >> >> I >> >> >> can't find the post. >> >> >> >> >> > see >> >> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Making_Tracks_with_Homebrew-ware#Linux >> >> > >> >> > The gpsd and associated packages are available as standard Ubuntu >> >> > packages, and I imagine they're available pre-packaged for other >> >> > systems >> >> > as well. >> >> > >> >> >> if someone can just post where to go to find this kind of info, I >> >> >> would >> >> >> be >> >> >> >> >> >> appreciative. No need to spend time answering my niggling >> >> >> questions. >> >> >> >> >> > HTH. >> >> > >> >> > - Evan >> >> -- >> >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > ted leslie >> > >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > ted leslie > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 15:42:19 2009 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:42:19 -0500 Subject: mount: ntfs not recognised? In-Reply-To: <49693D6D.1060104-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> <49684980.50705@gmail.com> <496935B2.6060005@rogers.com> <49693D6D.1060104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <496A135B.2030900@golden.net> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Computer of my friend got broken. Windows does not start and is not > willing to be repaired. HD itself is more or less ok. He would loose a > huge amount of valuable data if formatting was done. HD is of SATA > type, while on my comp its IDE, so I can not connect it to my computer. > > I burned Centos 5.2 LiveCD and booted his computer from it. Works > great. I can browse through one partition on his HD, sde1, but sde2 is > not mounted automatically and when I try to mount it manually, I get > the following error message: > > mount: unknown filesystem type 'ntfs' > > ntfs is shown as a filesystem type on that partition when using > hardware manager. > > What should I think about that? Any ideas what next? > > zb. > I've had success using this live CD. http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page However -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 11 17:21:21 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:21:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Microsoft GPS In-Reply-To: References: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> <4967A5E0.9040709@telly.org> <20090110195045.49e27458.tleslie@tcn.net> <20090110232844.b99e1ada.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: | From: Colin McGregor | You can enter anything, with any tag you want, but unless you use one | of the "approved" tags it will not show up on the rendered map. My impression is that you can do the rendering on your own machine and you that you can configure it to show anything you choose to. If you cannot convince a community to contribute these new things, you don't have any leverage. So it is a really good idea to work towards consensus on new features. I would not be surprised if a bunch snowmobilers could find this worth contributing to. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 02:40:32 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 21:40:32 -0500 Subject: Microsoft GPS In-Reply-To: <200901091420.00961.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901111840l63be0bcei48b6a865f3975de3@mail.gmail.com> So what exactly is this? A USB GPS card with software? PCMCIA? If it's only $50, and it works well for you, please pass info on to the list as I (and likely others) might be quite interested in these. If it's a USB device and works with 'nix it would probably do nicely on an EEE or small laptop? On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Merv Curley wrote: > Hi all > > I suppose Google would work but... > > My Microsoft Trips 2007/GPS has arrived from Factorydirect. Now that I have > spent $30, what do I need? [ Do I curse Hugh or bless him for the $20 > coupon?] > > Never having used a GPS, does it only work in the great outdoors? It comes > with a little suction cup, I assume this is stuck to a car windshield? > > Next is the computer, my old Thinkpad is W98, Maybe a new hard drive with a > Linux install? Or a new small computer? Hey this getting to be more > expensive than a $150 GPS. > > What Linux software is needed for the GPS. I think Colin has said but I can't > find the post. > > if someone can just post where to go to find this kind of info, I would be > appreciative. No need to spend time answering my niggling questions. > > Thanks > > -- > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can > > Debian Sid Linux > Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 02:47:28 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 21:47:28 -0500 Subject: mount: ntfs not recognised? In-Reply-To: <496A135B.2030900-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> <49684980.50705@gmail.com> <496935B2.6060005@rogers.com> <49693D6D.1060104@gmail.com> <496A135B.2030900@golden.net> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901111847n459a58cewbb4c6a92977b6249@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:42 AM, John Myshrall wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> >> Computer of my friend got broken. Windows does not start and is not >> willing to be repaired. HD itself is more or less ok. He would loose a huge >> amount of valuable data if formatting was done. HD is of SATA type, while on >> my comp its IDE, so I can not connect it to my computer. >> >> I burned Centos 5.2 LiveCD and booted his computer from it. Works great. I >> can browse through one partition on his HD, sde1, but sde2 is not mounted >> automatically and when I try to mount it manually, I get the following error >> message: >> >> mount: unknown filesystem type 'ntfs' >> >> ntfs is shown as a filesystem type on that partition when using hardware >> manager. >> >> What should I think about that? Any ideas what next? >> >> zb. >> > I've had success using this live CD. http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page > However > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Although it's been awhile, I've also had good luck with this one when I last used it. A default Ubuntu LiveCD also worked last time I had to fix a pooched NTFS partition. If you have enough space on the RAMdisk and you need an app that's not on the liveCD, you can still install it, but I think that NTFS-3G is in there by default. Also, if you've got a USB->IDE+SATA adaptor I've found that sometimes going with that on an up-and-running machien works better than working with a boot-disk. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 03:18:25 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:18:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: SATA drive and PATA-only motherboard Message-ID: SATA drives are cheaper and larger these days. I want to use SATA drives with computers without SATA controllers. I don't want to add a PCI card SATA controller because I'm short of PCI slots. I don't want to use USB-to-SATA (or is that SATA-to-USB) because I expect that would be a large performance hit. So I'd like to use a SATA-HDD to PATA host adapter. Does anyone have any experience with these? Here's what I've discovered so far: - terminology is unclear. Does SATA to IDE mean that the drive is SATA or IDE (PATA)? - some converters appear to be bidirectional (i.e. they will work as SATA HDD to PATA host converter or as a PATA HDD to SATA host converter). But the documentation is ambiguous. Is this possible? Likely? - a normal PATA controller socket supports a cable with two drives connected: master and slave. The vast majority of converters seem to take one PATA socket to connect only one SATA drive. Is this intrinsic to the protocols or just what the market wants? - The SATA HDD to PATA controller converters seem to have female PATA connectors so they plug directly into the socket where an IDE cable would normally go. It would make sense to me that if they supported only one SATA drive, they could connect to the master or slave connector of an IDE cable instead if the gender were male (like an IDE drive). Besides, the converters appear to be mechanically awkward to plug into a motherboard (the motherboard IDE sockets are often closely packed). Why do they make adapters this way? - Canada computers sells an adapter. Their site has very little documentation and spotty inventory: http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019312&cid=CA.742.630 So does XpressCanada, but that seems to be a front for Canada Computers (same head office). The price is lower but you have to get it shipped, so the cost isn't lower: http://www.xpresscanada.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019312&cid=CA.742.630 - Deal Extreme has a bunch of converters. It is very hard to tell how well they work. (DX is a great source of cheap junk but I'm not confident that their quality control is great.) ================ "Bilateral" ================ These can connect SATA HDD to PATA host or vice versa. They call these "bilateral". These have two SATA connectors: one for a HDD and one for host. Only one SATA may be connected a time. If HDD is connected to SATA, then the PATA is for host; if host is connected to (other) SATA, then the PATA is for HDD. Most of these seem bulky. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1067 "Ide-to-Sata 2-Ways Adapter". Board is inside a box. Not clear why they didn't say "bilateral". http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5458 "SATA-IDE Bilateral Converter Board" http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7533 "SATA-IDE Bilateral Converter Board" http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3576 "DE to SATA 2-Port Adapter Card" Description says that it handles two drives but a user review says this isn't the case. Apparently "bilateral". http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5496 "Bidirectional IDE-SATA Converter" Apparently "bilateral". ================ one PATA HDD to one SATA host ================ http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.706 "SATA to IDE Converter Driver". Seems to work with IDE drive, SATA host. No power plug conversion. "Apparently the fact that the last word is "driver" rather than "host" is supposed to" tell you that the disk is IDE. But some comments suggest the opposite. Who knows. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12537 "SATA to IDE Hard Disk Mini Vertical Bridge Adapter Card" ================ one SATA HDD to one PATA host ================ http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.728 "SATA to IDE Converter Host". SATA for HDD. One comment says that "IT WORKS IN BOTH WAYS!!" No power plug conversion. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1759 "IDE (40-Pin) to SATA Hard Disk Converter" No power conversion. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8825 Parallel PATA to Serial SATA Hard Disk Converter. Comments suggest that the speed must be limited to UDMA/33 Note: comments were from mlord, probably the same Mark Lord who was the original author and maintainer of the Linux Kernel IDE subsystem. http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2008/view_bio.php?id=2652 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11163 SATA HDD to IDE converter. Appears to convert power too. Seems to be suitable to slap on the back of a drive. sold out ================ two SATA HDD to PATA host ================ http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14666 "2-SATA Port to IDE". This must be for SATA HDD and IDE (PATA) host since two host connections makes no sense. Or it could be misdocumented and be bilateral http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.18786 "2-Port SATA HDD to 40-Pin IDE Master/Slave with Power Adapter Cable". Sounds just like what I need. Scary box label disagrees with site blurb and with pictures: Specifications & features One 40pin IDE port one serial ATA port one 4pin power connector converts sevial ATA TO paraller ATA supports ATA100/133 compliant with serial ATA specifications MADE IN CHINA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 03:26:15 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:26:15 -0500 Subject: SATA drive and PATA-only motherboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496AB857.2000001@dinamis.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > SATA drives are cheaper and larger these days. > I want to use SATA drives with computers without SATA controllers. > I don't want to add a PCI card SATA controller because I'm short of PCI slots. [snip] I have the same need but I don't mind a PCI card, not PCI-e. Are there PCI SATA controller cards that are Linux-friendly? Spending a bunch of money on a RAID card would obviate the point of doing this so that's another factor. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 03:47:24 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:47:24 -0500 Subject: Microsoft GPS In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901111840l63be0bcei48b6a865f3975de3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> <3a97ef0901111840l63be0bcei48b6a865f3975de3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496ABD4C.7050509@telly.org> Tyler Aviss wrote: > So what exactly is this? A USB GPS card with software? PCMCIA? If it's > only $50, and it works well for you, please pass info on to the list > as I (and likely others) might be quite interested in these. The unit is about the size of a small bar of soap, attached by USB cable to the computer. Some come with suction cups so you can attach them to the roof of your car (or maybe the inside deck) while driving. The units mentioned here at FactoryDirect are usually bundled with Windows based software designed to let a PC -- with one of these GPS devices attached -- act like a portable satnav system. The ones offered cheap are previous years' editions, so they come with "out of date" Windows maps: This, of course, means nothing to the open source user who tosses the Windows software, and buys the package for the cheap GPS receiver to be used with gpsd on Linux. Even without a coupon, one can now buy a USB-attached GPS receiver together with Microsoft Streets and Trips 2007 any time for $30: http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=MS0308 The 2006 version is even less expensive at $20: http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=MS3003 Be sure -- in the store or online -- to make sure that the one you choose is includes the GPS receiver. They also sell the software alone. > If it's a USB device and works with 'nix it would probably do nicely on an EEE or small laptop? > No reason why not (though I have no idea of gpsd' s CPU or RAM load...) I would imagine that an Atom-based system would have no problems. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 04:00:38 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 04:00:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? References: <496932C5.8040508@rogers.com> Message-ID: What the hole looks like in nature ... http://www.ptdd.com/datarecovery/images/hard-drive2.jpg The one that says 'do not obstruct' Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 04:51:19 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:51:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: SATA drive and PATA-only motherboard In-Reply-To: <496AB857.2000001-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <496AB857.2000001@dinamis.com> Message-ID: | From: CLIFFORD ILKAY | I have the same need but I don't mind a PCI card, not PCI-e. Are there | PCI SATA controller cards that are Linux-friendly? Spending a bunch of | money on a RAID card would obviate the point of doing this so that's | another factor. There are a million inexpensive SATA controllers that are PCI cards. The most available ones seem to be based on VIA chips. I seem to remember reading somewhere some time ago that Linux doesn't like the VIA card. I hope that that is no longer true. http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=012857&cid=IO.898.236 http://cty.ca/main.asp?dir=Others&category=Add-on Card http://www.jumbocomputers.ca/index.php?do=Product&cmd=pd&pid=001921&cid=812.475.760 http://www.infonec.ca/site/main.php?module=detail&id=9057 http://www.infonec.ca/site/main.php?module=detail&id=350160 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7598 http://www.filtechcomputer.com/#IDE/SATA/SCSI http://www.inmax.ca/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59&products_id=3584 http://www.sonaggi.com/productDetail.php?category=I/O Controllers&subcategory=&pid=190100068001&isid=1449 Most of these are only SATA 1. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 12:16:51 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:16:51 -0500 Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? In-Reply-To: References: <496932C5.8040508@rogers.com> Message-ID: <496B34B3.3020706@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > What the hole looks like in nature ... > > http://www.ptdd.com/datarecovery/images/hard-drive2.jpg > > The one that says 'do not obstruct' > Does that hole permit ambient air into the drive? Or is there a flexible barrier there, which allows for air pressure differences, without letting in the outside air? If it allows outside air in, it would also need a good filter, to keep dust out. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 14:19:55 2009 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:19:55 -0500 Subject: SATA drive and PATA-only motherboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Hugh, I had a similar problem - a new MoBo with four SATA ports and old PATA boards. I had a PCI HD controller with 2 IDE ports (hence 4 drives, but preferred the SATA. Anyway, I got a couple of SATA to IDE converters and everythings hunky dorey now (or will be once I install an OS on the system...). In response to your points: Yes, the terminology is very confusing. I think "SATA to IDE" means converting a SATA board to an IDE (PATA) controller and "IDE to SATA" means converting an IDE (PATA) drive to a SATA controller. Don't take that as gospel. You can find suitable converter cards (which plug right onto the IDE drives themselves - SATA drives will probably connect via a SATA cable) at a numbers of stores - I go for the small hobby type stores myself. The going price seems to be about $20. I think Tiger Direct has what you are looking for. See: "http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1567086&CatId=1455" Regards, Colin On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:18 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > SATA drives are cheaper and larger these days. > I want to use SATA drives with computers without SATA controllers. > I don't want to add a PCI card SATA controller because I'm short of PCI slots. > I don't want to use USB-to-SATA (or is that SATA-to-USB) because I expect that > would be a large performance hit. > So I'd like to use a SATA-HDD to PATA host adapter. > > Does anyone have any experience with these? > > Here's what I've discovered so far: > > - terminology is unclear. Does SATA to IDE mean that the drive is > SATA or IDE (PATA)? > > - some converters appear to be bidirectional (i.e. they will work as > SATA HDD to PATA host converter or as a PATA HDD to SATA host > converter). But the documentation is ambiguous. Is this possible? > Likely? > > - a normal PATA controller socket supports a cable with two drives > connected: master and slave. The vast majority of converters seem > to take one PATA socket to connect only one SATA drive. Is this > intrinsic to the protocols or just what the market wants? > > - The SATA HDD to PATA controller converters seem to have female PATA > connectors so they plug directly into the socket where an IDE cable > would normally go. It would make sense to me that if they supported > only one SATA drive, they could connect to the master or slave > connector of an IDE cable instead if the gender were male (like an > IDE drive). Besides, the converters appear to be mechanically > awkward to plug into a motherboard (the motherboard IDE sockets are > often closely packed). Why do they make adapters this way? > > - Canada computers sells an adapter. Their site has very little > documentation and spotty inventory: > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019312&cid=CA.742.630 > So does XpressCanada, but that seems to be a front for Canada > Computers (same head office). The price is lower but you have > to get it shipped, so the cost isn't lower: > http://www.xpresscanada.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019312&cid=CA.742.630 > > - Deal Extreme has a bunch of converters. It is very hard to tell how > well they work. (DX is a great source of cheap junk but I'm not > confident that their quality control is great.) > > ================ "Bilateral" ================ > > These can connect SATA HDD to PATA host or vice versa. They call > these "bilateral". These have two SATA connectors: one for a HDD and > one for host. Only one SATA may be connected a time. If HDD is > connected to SATA, then the PATA is for host; if host is connected to > (other) SATA, then the PATA is for HDD. > > Most of these seem bulky. > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1067 > "Ide-to-Sata 2-Ways Adapter". Board is inside a box. > Not clear why they didn't say "bilateral". > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5458 > "SATA-IDE Bilateral Converter Board" > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7533 > "SATA-IDE Bilateral Converter Board" > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3576 > "DE to SATA 2-Port Adapter Card" > Description says that it handles two drives but a user review > says this isn't the case. > Apparently "bilateral". > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5496 > "Bidirectional IDE-SATA Converter" > Apparently "bilateral". > > > ================ one PATA HDD to one SATA host ================ > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.706 > "SATA to IDE Converter Driver". Seems to work with IDE drive, > SATA host. No power plug conversion. > "Apparently the fact that the last word is "driver" rather than > "host" is supposed to" tell you that the disk is IDE. > But some comments suggest the opposite. Who knows. > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12537 > "SATA to IDE Hard Disk Mini Vertical Bridge Adapter Card" > > ================ one SATA HDD to one PATA host ================ > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.728 > "SATA to IDE Converter Host". SATA for HDD. > One comment says that "IT WORKS IN BOTH WAYS!!" > No power plug conversion. > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1759 > "IDE (40-Pin) to SATA Hard Disk Converter" > No power conversion. > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8825 > Parallel PATA to Serial SATA Hard Disk Converter. > Comments suggest that the speed must be limited to UDMA/33 > Note: comments were from mlord, probably the same Mark Lord > who was the original author and maintainer of the Linux Kernel > IDE subsystem. http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2008/view_bio.php?id=2652 > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11163 > SATA HDD to IDE converter. Appears to convert power too. > Seems to be suitable to slap on the back of a drive. > sold out > > ================ two SATA HDD to PATA host ================ > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14666 > "2-SATA Port to IDE". This must be for > SATA HDD and IDE (PATA) host since two > host connections makes no sense. > Or it could be misdocumented and be bilateral > > > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.18786 > "2-Port SATA HDD to 40-Pin IDE Master/Slave with Power > Adapter Cable". > Sounds just like what I need. > Scary box label disagrees with site blurb and with pictures: > Specifications & features > One 40pin IDE port > one serial ATA port > one 4pin power connector > converts sevial ATA TO paraller ATA > supports ATA100/133 > compliant with serial ATA specifications > MADE IN CHINA > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 15:51:08 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:51:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: tomorrow's meeting? Message-ID: Is there a speaker scheduled? Is the location known? http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Meetings:2009-01 is yet to be filled in. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 15:59:03 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:59:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4968F709.3030809-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4968F709.3030809@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <509547.510.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> "you should be able to understand how people can make sweeping and wrong generalizations about people of your ancestry, for example. I'll bet you don't like it when people do that. " Does one have to resort to thinly hidden racism to make a point? The difference here was opinion, preference and belief. The conversation and intensity could have happened among any group of the _same_ancestory_ who happened fanatical about their belief. It is just a sad reality in Canadian hidden racism that you got first to check "your ancestory" before you make your inconvinient point. EK --- On Sat, 1/10/09, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: From: CLIFFORD ILKAY Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux drove me to get a Mac To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Received: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 2:29 PM Kamran Khan wrote: > > On 9-Jan-09, at 8:28 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> Kamran Khan wrote: >>> Well the Open Source Community lives in one Universe the rest of the >>> world lives in another. >> >> Last time I checked, half the websites on the web use apache, and I'm >> sure almost every email you send passes through a mailserver running >> Linux somewhere along the line. Quite an intrusion of one universe >> into another. > > You missed the point. I am talking about the model the Open Source > Community wants the world to adhere to. Part of the free software/open source, let's just call it FOSS, ethos is that there is no need to compel anyone to do anything. We only offer carrots, no sticks. Openness and avoidance of lock-in are the driving principles. Why does this threaten you? > I don't want to go with this > endless banter with these silly counter points. The only one who seems to be engaging in "silly counter points" is you. So far, all I've seen is troll-like behaviour on your part with lots of buzzwords and nonsense thrown around in a futile attempt to sound authoritative. > The only thing I found > interesting is that you would go and ask a chef for a valuable recipe > for free. What is wrong with that? Most chefs would be honoured to be asked and they can always refuse if they're silly enough to think that sharing their recipe will undermine their interests. > What kind of man doesn't even want to pay someone for his work. Who said that people shouldn't be paid for their work? Chefs don't get paid for recipes. They get paid to provide dining experiences. Besides, this is a poor analogy. There is no "vendor lock-in" with food, unless we're talking about genetically-engineered seeds but that wasn't the analogy. Apple and Microsoft are engaged in mortal combat to *own* you. They will do anything to lock out competitors in order to achieve monopoly status and if there is even a pretense of being open, it is only because of the people whom you deride. Now that you've asked, "What kind of man doesn't even want to pay someone for his work?", I trust that means you think the people who write free software, like KDE's Webkit, Kerberos, OpenLDAP, PostgreSQL, Postfix, Apache, and the BSD toolchain, should all be paid for their efforts. When will you be cutting cheques to all those projects seeing as your shiny new toy, OS X, depends on all of the preceding? > You people are scary. Shame on you! You really ought to know better than this. Do you have any idea how many people are subscribed to this list? How many of the people on this list whom you're so cavalierly insulting have you ever met face-to-face? I've met more than a few and can't recall any that could be characterized as "scary". You're the one who keeps saying, "It's just an operating system." so if you can make idiotic generalizations about large groups of people over something that you argue borders on inconsequential, you should be able to understand how people can make sweeping and wrong generalizations about people of your ancestry, for example. I'll bet you don't like it when people do that. Why would you engage in the same behaviour that you would understandably condemn in others? I think you really ought to examine yourself critically to understand your hostility towards this group. > If you want to be zealots of Linux by all > means huddle at the Linux Caffe, I'll gladly spend my money at the Apple > Store. "Let them eat cake at the Linuxcaffe! I'll spend my money on shiny Apple baubles." > It is just operating systems to most people. You really don't > know what you are talking about when it comes to virtualization, Novell, > cloud computing, IBM etc. I know Jamon. Rest assured he knows, as I do, what virtualization is because our respective companies use virtualization extensively. It is quite foolish to make these statements without knowing anything about the people whom you're attacking and I'm not even sure what point you were trying to make when you threw in "virtualization, Novell, cloud computing, IBM etc." > The reason I say I do because I spent months > with both of them and I have an excellent idea of what they intend with > all of the technologies including Linux. OK, so you "spent months with both of them" and read some buzzword-laden articles. Good for you. What have you done with it, other than fulminate here? And both of what? You enumerated four things with an "etc." thrown in for good measure. It's just an incoherent rant. > Furthermore I generally find > that I have little use for the banter on the LUG and in retrospect I > should have not posted anything that you Linux zealots find contrary to > your cause. I guess burning bridges here is your way of making sure you're committed to OS X. I just did a cursory search of my TLUG mailbox to skim what you've posted and noticed that you've received a bit of help from the very people whom you're now insulting. Ingrate. As Mark Twain famously said, "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." > Sit in your Linux corner, let the Microsoft people sit in > theirs, let the Apple people in theirs. I'll continue to bounce to > better and better platforms. All this sounds like buyer's remorse to me. By being, as a Turkish saying goes, "a bigger supporter of the king than the king", you're rationalizing the purchase of your Mac. Enjoy your Mac but please remember to send in those cheques to the various projects upon which OS X was built. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 16:00:13 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:00:13 -0500 Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? In-Reply-To: <49684980.50705-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> <49684980.50705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090112160013.GU29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 02:08:48AM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Hard drive has vacuum inside. The outside air does not go inside. > > The problem still potentially exists since water may cause short-circuit > on the surface where electronics is placed but I do not thing this is a > serious problem. Make rather an experiment, take an old unused HD and > see what happens. > > I guess that wrapping HD in a sort of plastic bag would protect it well > enough. However, have in mind that wrapping it would also case poorer > cooling by air, and there is a substantial amount of heat released on HD. > > Or you can spray it over the entire external electronics (except of > connectors) by some sort of non-electricity conducting substance. Though > I suspect this may be done already at factory. > > My friend put once a HD into his luggage when going by plain. They are > stored in unheated compartment of airplaine and vacuum seeling got > broken because of cold. He lost HD. The cargo area is heated and cooled the same as the rest of the plane. They are all part of the same preasurized part. The majority of the cargo they carry would be damaged if the temperature wasn't controlled (-50C or -60C is bad for most things). They also carry animals in parts of the cargo area in many cases. Now the pressure drop the drive experiences might kill it. Apparently observatories at high altitude have had tons of problems with regular harddisks failing on them. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 16:02:58 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:02:58 -0500 Subject: mount: ntfs not recognised? In-Reply-To: <49693D6D.1060104-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> <49684980.50705@gmail.com> <496935B2.6060005@rogers.com> <49693D6D.1060104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090112160258.GV29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 07:29:33PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Computer of my friend got broken. Windows does not start and is not > willing to be repaired. HD itself is more or less ok. He would loose a > huge amount of valuable data if formatting was done. HD is of SATA type, > while on my comp its IDE, so I can not connect it to my computer. You can get very handy usb to ide/sata adapters for $25 and up. A very nice one is about $40, unless you get it on sale from dell for $25 (like I managed last year). Really handy for drive recoveries. > I burned Centos 5.2 LiveCD and booted his computer from it. Works great. > I can browse through one partition on his HD, sde1, but sde2 is not > mounted automatically and when I try to mount it manually, I get the > following error message: > > mount: unknown filesystem type 'ntfs' > > ntfs is shown as a filesystem type on that partition when using hardware > manager. > > What should I think about that? Any ideas what next? Perhaps centos is using too ancient a kernel to support modern versions of ntfs, or perhaps ntfs in need of repair can't be mounted. Sometimes booting the windows install cd and going to the repair console will let you get a command prompt where you can run chkdsk on the drive and get it fixed that way. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 16:07:49 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:07:49 -0500 Subject: Laptop outside -> may cause condensation on hdd when going inside ? In-Reply-To: <496B34B3.3020706-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <496932C5.8040508@rogers.com> <496B34B3.3020706@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090112160749.GW29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 07:16:51AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Does that hole permit ambient air into the drive? Or is there a flexible > barrier there, which allows for air pressure differences, without > letting in the outside air? If it allows outside air in, it would also > need a good filter, to keep dust out. They filter anything over 0.3 micron in size. Some drives go even smaller than that on their filter. Drives built for harsh environments are sealed and run with a fixed pressure inside and have no ambiant air vent. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 16:11:37 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:11:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: mount: ntfs not recognised? In-Reply-To: <20090112160258.GV29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090112160258.GV29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <910827.87743.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 1/12/09, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > From: Lennart Sorensen > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: mount: ntfs not recognised? > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Monday, January 12, 2009, 11:02 AM > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 07:29:33PM -0500, Zbigniew Koziol > wrote: > > Computer of my friend got broken. Windows does not > start and is not > > willing to be repaired. HD itself is more or less ok. > He would loose a > > huge amount of valuable data if formatting was done. > HD is of SATA type, > > while on my comp its IDE, so I can not connect it to > my computer. > > You can get very handy usb to ide/sata adapters for $25 and > up. A very > nice one is about $40, unless you get it on sale from dell > for $25 (like > I managed last year). Really handy for drive recoveries. > > > I burned Centos 5.2 LiveCD and booted his computer > from it. Works great. > > I can browse through one partition on his HD, sde1, > but sde2 is not > > mounted automatically and when I try to mount it > manually, I get the > > following error message: > > > > mount: unknown filesystem type 'ntfs' > > > > ntfs is shown as a filesystem type on that partition > when using hardware > > manager. > > > > What should I think about that? Any ideas what next? > > Perhaps centos is using too ancient a kernel to support > modern versions > of ntfs, or perhaps ntfs in need of repair can't be > mounted. > > Sometimes booting the windows install cd and going to the > repair console > will let you get a command prompt where you can run chkdsk > on the drive > and get it fixed that way. > > -- I had similar problem some time back and I used Puppy Linux to recover the data. I then used ftp to transfer the data to my computer over the network. Good luck, EK __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 16:23:28 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:23:28 -0500 Subject: tomorrow's meeting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1/12/09, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Is there a speaker scheduled? Is the location known? > > http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Meetings:2009-01 is yet to be filled in. I gather there is to be a lunch time meeting with a rep. from one of the commercial Linux vendors to see if they will be talking tomorrow. If that falls through, it will likely be me doing a Unix Unanimous Q&A type session.... Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 16:28:53 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:28:53 -0500 Subject: mount: ntfs not recognised? In-Reply-To: <20090112160258.GV29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901091711g524e9347r4b909e9157312584@mail.gmail.com> <49684980.50705@gmail.com> <496935B2.6060005@rogers.com> <49693D6D.1060104@gmail.com> <20090112160258.GV29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <496B6FC5.9060803@gmail.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> I burned Centos 5.2 LiveCD and booted his computer from it. Works great. >> I can browse through one partition on his HD, sde1, but sde2 is not >> mounted automatically and when I try to mount it manually, I get the >> following error message: >> >> mount: unknown filesystem type 'ntfs' >> >> ntfs is shown as a filesystem type on that partition when using hardware >> manager. >> >> What should I think about that? Any ideas what next? >> > > Perhaps centos is using too ancient a kernel to support modern versions > of ntfs, or perhaps ntfs in need of repair can't be mounted. > > I solved the problem by booting from Ubuntu LiveCD. Centos, like RedHat and Fedora, do not include support for ntfs, as I read somewhere. I had no idea about that. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 17:00:11 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:00:11 -0500 Subject: RevCan and Linux/FireFox In-Reply-To: <496938B8.8000703-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <732A0AA878724C2D83B714DCE0030703@plex20> <4968D226.6030607@ss.org> <496938B8.8000703@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090112170011.GX29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 07:09:28PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > And perhaps point out that requiring someone to use Microsoft software > is to require them to support a convicted monopolist. The page in question lists firefox 2.x (not 3.x though) on FC8 and ubuntu 7.10 as accepted choices. They don't support firefox 3.x on any platform. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 18:05:33 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:05:33 -0500 Subject: RHEL 5.3 release date? Message-ID: Hello, Would anyone here know when Red Hat are releasing 5.3? I thought it would be last week, but there is nothing about it on their website so far. Oh, and how long does CentOS take to sync with Red Hat after a new release. Thanks in advance Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 18:10:23 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:10:23 -0500 Subject: SATA drive and PATA-only motherboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090112181023.GY29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:18:25PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > SATA drives are cheaper and larger these days. > I want to use SATA drives with computers without SATA controllers. > I don't want to add a PCI card SATA controller because I'm short of PCI slots. > I don't want to use USB-to-SATA (or is that SATA-to-USB) because I expect that > would be a large performance hit. > So I'd like to use a SATA-HDD to PATA host adapter. > > Does anyone have any experience with these? > > Here's what I've discovered so far: > > - terminology is unclear. Does SATA to IDE mean that the drive is > SATA or IDE (PATA)? > > - some converters appear to be bidirectional (i.e. they will work as > SATA HDD to PATA host converter or as a PATA HDD to SATA host > converter). But the documentation is ambiguous. Is this possible? > Likely? Yes the majority work both ways. > - a normal PATA controller socket supports a cable with two drives > connected: master and slave. The vast majority of converters seem > to take one PATA socket to connect only one SATA drive. Is this > intrinsic to the protocols or just what the market wants? They tend to connect to the cable as a drive does, so multiple drives depends on your ide cable. The convertor has a master/slave jumper as IDE drives always do. > - The SATA HDD to PATA controller converters seem to have female PATA > connectors so they plug directly into the socket where an IDE cable > would normally go. It would make sense to me that if they supported > only one SATA drive, they could connect to the master or slave > connector of an IDE cable instead if the gender were male (like an > IDE drive). Besides, the converters appear to be mechanically > awkward to plug into a motherboard (the motherboard IDE sockets are > often closely packed). Why do they make adapters this way? Hmm, the ones I have seem have the connector to attach to the cable, although I guess to attach to the drive to turn it into sata would require the other connector. > - Canada computers sells an adapter. Their site has very little > documentation and spotty inventory: > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019312&cid=CA.742.630 > So does XpressCanada, but that seems to be a front for Canada > Computers (same head office). The price is lower but you have > to get it shipped, so the cost isn't lower: > http://www.xpresscanada.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019312&cid=CA.742.630 > > - Deal Extreme has a bunch of converters. It is very hard to tell how > well they work. (DX is a great source of cheap junk but I'm not > confident that their quality control is great.) Now one concern is that, many older IDE controllers only support LBA28 IDE, which means 137GB is the largest drive they can run. LBA48 supports much larger. Does your controller support LBA48? Do these adapters support LBA48? This one looks like the idea of what you want: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1567086&csid=ITD&body=MAIN The reviews seem to indicate it works great for some people and not for others, although a number of the ones that claim it doesn't work appear to have tried to use it in reverse which it doesn't do (as in tried to use it to connect IDE drives to SATA controllers). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 18:12:11 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:12:11 -0500 Subject: SATA drive and PATA-only motherboard In-Reply-To: <496AB857.2000001-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <496AB857.2000001@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20090112181211.GZ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:26:15PM -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > I have the same need but I don't mind a PCI card, not PCI-e. Are there > PCI SATA controller cards that are Linux-friendly? Spending a bunch of > money on a RAID card would obviate the point of doing this so that's > another factor. Well there are cheap Sil3112A cards. Not a great SATA controller but it seems to work (except with some seagate drives). For PCIe users, JMB363 seems like a nice AHCI controller that works with everything. Some of the promise cards work well with linux, but they cost more. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 20:31:28 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:31:28 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <509547.510.qm-Q9ppC46l1fv5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <509547.510.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <496BA8A0.7060806@dinamis.com> E K wrote: > "you should be able > to understand how people can make sweeping and wrong generalizations > about people of your ancestry, for example. I'll bet you don't like it > when people do that. " > > Does one have to resort to thinly hidden racism to make a point? Oh please. Not the racism card. Perhaps I was too subtle. People who have experienced racism first-hand, as I suspect the original poster may have and I have, should be even more attuned to the folly of making sweeping generalizations about groups of people than those who haven't. That isn't to say that people who haven't experienced racism first-hand can be excused for not being mindful of this or are insensitive. It just means that having experienced the ugliness of racism or hostility just for being a member of some identifiable group, that ought to make one be more careful about not committing the same sins against others. > The difference here was opinion, preference and belief. Attributing things to "opinion, preference and belief" seems to be the last resort of those who can't make an argument for or against something. You don't have to look very hard on-line to find bigots who say, for example, that "all Muslims are terrorists". They can also hide behind the "opinion, preference and belief" shield but they would be just as ignorant and wrong as someone who labels subscribers to this list as "scary" just because some, perhaps many, of them happen to promote free software. You can argue that the case of the anti-Muslim bigots is worse but that would be arguing over shades of grey. Mischaracterizations of the "other" have historically led to rather unpleasant things and they invariably start with seemingly innocuous things, like labelling the "other" as "scary". In this case, that can have very real and negative consequences if a sufficient number of people who share the same ignorant beliefs as the original poster encourage politicians to pass stinky laws like the DMCA in the U.S. and the contemplated Bill C-61 here. > The conversation and intensity could have happened among any group of > the _same_ancestory_ who happened fanatical about their belief. And it would have been just as stupid and unacceptable in that case. > It is just a sad reality in Canadian hidden racism that you got first > to check "your ancestory" before you make your inconvinient point. Just like anyone else, the original poster has the right to say whatever he wants, even if he says idiotic things, but I have every right to challenge him if I disagree. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 20:40:56 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:40:56 -0500 Subject: SATA drive and PATA-only motherboard In-Reply-To: References: <496AB857.2000001@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20090112204056.GA29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 11:51:19PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > There are a million inexpensive SATA controllers that are PCI cards. > The most available ones seem to be based on VIA chips. I seem to > remember reading somewhere some time ago that Linux doesn't like the > VIA card. I hope that that is no longer true. > > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=012857&cid=IO.898.236 That's an Sil3112A card. > http://cty.ca/main.asp?dir=Others&category=Add-on Card Seems to have a selection. Some VIA based, some sil 3112a. > http://www.jumbocomputers.ca/index.php?do=Product&cmd=pd&pid=001921&cid=812.475.760 This is also an Sil 3112a. > http://www.infonec.ca/site/main.php?module=detail&id=9057 Sil3112A. > http://www.infonec.ca/site/main.php?module=detail&id=350160 Looks like the vantec Sil based card again like jumbocomputers above. > http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7598 That one is certainly a VIA of some kind. No idea if it works with linux or what it is like. > http://www.filtechcomputer.com/#IDE/SATA/SCSI Lots of choices there including some promise cards that should work with linux and the vantec sil 3112a controller again. > http://www.inmax.ca/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59&products_id=3584 VIA based, maybe the same chip as the above one. No idea about it. > http://www.sonaggi.com/productDetail.php?category=I/O Controllers&subcategory=&pid=190100068001&isid=1449 > > Most of these are only SATA 1. Yeah the cheap ones tend to be. Not that any drive does 150MB/s yet, but they are getting close. NCQ might also be nice to have. Given the option, I would always go with an AHCI compliant card since it (like usb and all but one firewire controller) uses a standard driver interface no matter who made it. At least that's the idea, hopefully no one has messed up the implementation yet (well I know via has, but that's not surprising really). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 20:54:21 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:54:21 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> <20090109214154.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090112205421.GB29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 06:45:29PM -0500, Kamran Khan wrote: > Well the Open Source Community lives in one Universe the rest of the > world lives in another. Asking companies to completely open source > their software and platforms is ridiculous. There is a lot of > information to be gleaned from open source and open specs, some of it > trade secrets, some of it just plain hard work to figure out, some of > it work figure out and some of it trivial. Having said that, would > you go to a Chef and ask him to give you his best recipes for free? > Some of his recipe will be secret, some will be plain hard workto > figure out, some just work to figure out and some just trivial. Put > it all together and you have a dish that people from miles around will > come to and pay handsomely for. The Open Source Community is > advocating a business model that the rest of world doesn't follow and > would outright reject. The problem started when people starting > politicizing, of all things, computer technology. Stallman et al have > brought a philosophy that belongs on a hippie commune into the realm > of computer technology. Most people expect to paid for their work and > technology companies are no different. They have shareholders, they > have employees and they have multi-national interests that dictate > they turn a profit. You own a car once you pay for it but do you > actually expect to get the engineering diagrams, technical > specifications and manufacturing techniques as well? The bottom line > is cloud computing and virtualization technology have pretty much made > this entire discussion pointless. Microsoft isn't f going away > anytime soon and neither is Linux. With cloud computing and > virtualization technology everyone gets to play and looks like > Microsoft well get to play a lot. As for Apple. their future looks > grey but for now it is the best desktop platform going. The vast majority of the stuff for which specs aren't open are NOT trade secret worthy stuff. It's commodity equipment these days. I don't expect everything to be open source, especially not complex software (like CAD systems and the like). I do however expect the interface specs to a piece of hardware I can buy to be open. For example I do want the specs for how to interface with my video card (I don't have it but I want it). I do NOT expect the existing drivers to be open sourced, because the way opengl drivers do optimizations of the input very much does qualify as trade secret and something ati and nvidia don't want to share. But I should be able to get enough info on how to talk to the hardware to write my own (very inefficient) drivers, and that I don't have (yet). ATI claims to be working on it for their hardware, and intel seems to be doing rather nicely for their newer chips, so it is improving. Cloud computing will probably make very little difference to consumers. It's a corporate world thing, or its used to run web services (like gmail and such). Your home system isn't going to chance because of it because people want their computer to work no matter what independant of the rest of the world. As for apple, well they have the best OS they have ever had with OS X, and their market share is higher than ever it seems. They are doing well and deserve it. They worked hard for it. Their systems don't do what I want in a computer, but I think it's a great design and a good choice for many people, but not me. > As for my assumptions. Yes I assume that people view computers as > tools. It is a tool to get something done. If you look at operating > systems strictly from that assumption, which most people do, clearly > you must make significant sacrifices to run Linux. Ultimately you are > running an operating system that is largely licensed under the GPL > but most people can not even understand how the code works and for > the few that can they can not improve Linux on the desktop since it > becomes exceedingly difficult to reverse engineer the multitude of > hardware available for the x86 platform. Knowing that, clearly you > are a slave to an operating system for scoio-political reasons and > nothing else. You may pay a premium for PC hardware from Apple but > even in the higher prices there are tangible benefits like a visually > appealing piece of hardware, decent resale value and in person > technical support(both hardware and software) for 1-3 years across the > globe. In addition your choice of supported hardware and software is > greatly increased. Naturally if you argue that I only do such and > such, this is not what the vast majority of people do with the tool > and secondly if this is true perhaps you really don't need this kind > of tool and could probably do fine with a SE Smart Phone. I view a computer as a tool and hence it should do what I want it to do, not what someone else thought it should do. I should be able to fix it too if I have the skills. That is slightly harder on the mac, and very difficult (often imposible) on windows. I am quite sure my linux box supports a lot more hardware than a Mac does. It probably even supports more hardware than a vista box does. Vista supports some new gadgets that my linux box does not, but I don't have any of those. Vista does not support a lot of the hardware I have, including a lot of stuff that worked with older windows versions although XP did break support for a lot of it. There is a lot of software I can run on linux, which would probably work on the mac (in most cases) but would not work in windows in most cases. It might not be on the shelf at best buy or futureshop, but it is still software. > My original post was merely a related comment on the person switching > to Vista. Considering this LUG functions at least sometimes as a > Linux advocacy group I thought my posting may have been of interest to > the community. > > Anyways, I'm off to the Apple Store to look at gadgets. Ah pretty over priced gadgets with lovely interfaces. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 21:00:18 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:00:18 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4967F9AD.9040804-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> <20090109214154.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873@gmail.com> <4967F9AD.9040804@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20090112210018.GC29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 08:28:13PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I'd ask, no harm in trying. I know of a few people who are happy to go > to the Linuxcaffe for the open source hot chocolate rather than buy the > same ingredients and make it themselves. Part of what's great about FOSS > is that you can find that original author and draw upon their expertise > if you need it. In fact I would argue it isn't the recipe, but the skill in preparing it that you are there for in most cases. Most people probably couldn't reproduce the dish given the recipe. Sometimes you go for the service and atmosphere. > Tell that to Redhat. Tell that to the legions of web developers who > design websites with open source frameworks and who contribute their > work back to the community only to find someone else who hires them for > their expertise despite their having released a module or theme for > others to use freely. Certainly a business based on providing a service better than others do, can afford to participate in open source and often do. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 21:05:13 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:05:13 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> <20090109214154.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873@gmail.com> <4967F9AD.9040804@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20090112210513.GD29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 10:55:35PM -0500, Kamran Khan wrote: > You missed the point. I am talking about the model the Open Source > Community wants the world to adhere to. There is no single model the open source community wants the world to adhere to. They can't agree on that. There are many communities working with open source, each in their own ways. You are looking at the world in an overly simplistic way. No wonder you don't get how things work. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 21:16:13 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:16:13 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <4968F709.3030809-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4963C51E.9010009@rogers.com> <6CE74AB2-9F02-442F-83AA-80168D61A51F@gmail.com> <20090109214154.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4070BCF0-13DE-4D27-90E5-EB5EC1C0D873@gmail.com> <4967F9AD.9040804@utoronto.ca> <4968F709.3030809@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20090112211612.GE29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 02:29:13PM -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > All this sounds like buyer's remorse to me. By being, as a Turkish > saying goes, "a bigger supporter of the king than the king", you're > rationalizing the purchase of your Mac. Enjoy your Mac but please > remember to send in those cheques to the various projects upon which OS > X was built. Oh like gcc, bsd, mach, webkit, etc. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 12 23:51:10 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:51:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <496BA8A0.7060806-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <496BA8A0.7060806@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <942817.4422.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 1/12/09, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > From: CLIFFORD ILKAY > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux drove me to get a Mac > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Monday, January 12, 2009, 3:31 PM > E K wrote: > > "you should be able > > to understand how people can make sweeping and wrong > generalizations > > about people of your ancestry, for example. I'll > bet you don't like it > > when people do that. " > > > > Does one have to resort to thinly hidden racism to > make a point? > > Oh please. Not the racism card. Perhaps I was too subtle. > People who > have experienced racism first-hand, as I suspect the > original poster may > have and I have, should be even more attuned to the folly > of making > sweeping generalizations about groups of people than those > who haven't. > That isn't to say that people who haven't > experienced racism first-hand > can be excused for not being mindful of this or are > insensitive. It just > means that having experienced the ugliness of racism or > hostility just > for being a member of some identifiable group, that ought > to make one be > more careful about not committing the same sins against > others. > I disagree. Generalization (a.k.a abstraction) is a very important (actually an essential) aspect of human thinking. Without it no knowledge is possible. So we can not generally condemn generalization. Of course there are true/correct/helpful generalizations and there are aslo negative and dangerous generalizations. But one generalization to a totally unrelated another generalization is logically absured. Yes, the generalization he made was way off mark and totally ignorant. But that has to do with, if I were to make another generalization, can be ascribed to Windows/Mac users. Race absolutely has no factor in the debate unless you want to racialize the OSes. I don't think your point was to racialize technology, but to inject racism as a scare tool. That is what made me respond. > > The difference here was opinion, preference and > belief. > > Attributing things to "opinion, preference and > belief" seems to be the > last resort of those who can't make an argument for or > against > something. I agree with what you said about attributing things to opinion... But what I meant was the difference was about technological and economical outlooks. Of course, I don't agree with what he is saying. All I can understand from what he is saying is that he has very little understanding of technology and the open source. And in the tradition of the social concervatives (yet another generalization) everything that he does not know is "scary" instead of interesting. But again that has nothing to do with _his_ancestory_. > You don't have to look very hard on-line to > find bigots who > say, for example, that "all Muslims are > terrorists". They can also hide > behind the "opinion, preference and belief" > shield but they would be > just as ignorant and wrong as someone who labels > subscribers to this > list as "scary" just because some, perhaps many, > of them happen to > promote free software. > Why are you talking about Muslims? Why not talk about Jews or blacks or Asians or the indigeneous people? The fact you rant about the "mischaracterization" of Muslims to Mr. Khan is to remind him of the "characterization" of Muslims. The "mis" looks pretty much like the canadian way of racial slur in a political correct way. > You can argue that the case of the anti-Muslim bigots is > worse but that > would be arguing over shades of grey. Mischaracterizations > of the > "other" have historically led to rather > unpleasant things and they > invariably start with seemingly innocuous things, like > labelling the > "other" as "scary". In this case, that > can have very real and negative > consequences if a sufficient number of people who share the > same > ignorant beliefs as the original poster encourage > politicians to pass > stinky laws like the DMCA in the U.S. and the contemplated > Bill C-61 here. > > > The conversation and intensity could have happened > among any group of > > the _same_ancestory_ who happened fanatical about > their belief. > > And it would have been just as stupid and unacceptable in > that case. > But then no one would try to scare, condescend the other because of race. My point is you got to refrain from using race to silence/discriminate in areas where race has absolutely no relevance. Race and religion have unique significance compared to other characterization because of their prevalence, severity and reach. No other form of discrimination has persevered for so long and at such great scale. > > It is just a sad reality in Canadian hidden racism > that you got first > > to check "your ancestory" before you make > your inconvinient point. > > Just like anyone else, the original poster has the right to > say whatever > he wants, even if he says idiotic things, but I have every > right to > challenge him if I disagree. > -- My point was you could and should have disagreed with relevant points about technology rather than calling on _your_ancestors_. That is specially easy when you are arguing in favour of superior technology and innovative business model. > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay > Dinamis > 1419-3266 Yonge St. > Toronto, ON > Canada M4N 3P6 > > > +1 416-410-3326 __________________________________________________________________ Reclaim your name @ymail.com or @rocketmail.com. Get your new email address now! Go to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 13 08:56:51 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:56:51 -0500 Subject: Linux drove me to get a Mac In-Reply-To: <942817.4422.qm-j7iHDx50kh/5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <942817.4422.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <71BED88D-B4BD-48E1-9250-4BC0B273FD6F@utoronto.ca> On Jan 12, 2009, at 18:51, E K wrote: > --- On Mon, 1/12/09, CLIFFORD ILKAY > wrote: >> From: CLIFFORD ILKAY >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux drove me to get a Mac >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Received: Monday, January 12, 2009, 3:31 PM >> E K wrote: >>> "you should be able >>> to understand how people can make sweeping and wrong >> generalizations >>> about people of your ancestry, for example. I'll >> bet you don't like it >>> when people do that. " >>> >>> Does one have to resort to thinly hidden racism to >> make a point? >> >> Oh please. Not the racism card. Perhaps I was too subtle. >> People who >> have experienced racism first-hand, as I suspect the >> original poster may >> have and I have, should be even more attuned to the folly >> of making >> sweeping generalizations about groups of people than those >> who haven't. >> That isn't to say that people who haven't >> experienced racism first-hand >> can be excused for not being mindful of this or are >> insensitive. It just >> means that having experienced the ugliness of racism or >> hostility just >> for being a member of some identifiable group, that ought >> to make one be >> more careful about not committing the same sins against >> others. >> > > I disagree. Generalization (a.k.a abstraction) is a very important > (actually an essential) aspect of human thinking. Without it no > knowledge is possible. So we can not generally condemn generalization. > > Of course there are true/correct/helpful generalizations and there > are aslo negative and dangerous generalizations. But one > generalization to a totally unrelated another generalization is > logically absured. > I'm not so sure. That's the whole basis of reasoning by analogy, another of those things that we're pretty good at. > Yes, the generalization he made was way off mark and totally > ignorant. But that has to do with, if I were to make another > generalization, can be ascribed to Windows/Mac users. Race > absolutely has no factor in the debate unless you want to racialize > the OSes. > > I don't think your point was to racialize technology, but to inject > racism as a scare tool. That is what made me respond. > Another of those "Canadian values" things, where for the most part we don't mention race at all. That's not to say race is relevant here, but it is a response that is usually within the realm of political correctness that goes unquestioned and closes off sometimes fruitful avenues of discussion. >>> The difference here was opinion, preference and >> belief. >> >> Attributing things to "opinion, preference and >> belief" seems to be the >> last resort of those who can't make an argument for or >> against >> something. > > I agree with what you said about attributing things to opinion... > But what I meant was the difference was about technological and > economical outlooks. Of course, I don't agree with what he is > saying. All I can understand from what he is saying is that he has > very little understanding of technology and the open source. And in > the tradition of the social concervatives (yet another > generalization) everything that he does not know is "scary" instead > of interesting. But again that has nothing to do with _his_ancestory_. > >> You don't have to look very hard on-line to >> find bigots who >> say, for example, that "all Muslims are >> terrorists". They can also hide >> behind the "opinion, preference and belief" >> shield but they would be >> just as ignorant and wrong as someone who labels >> subscribers to this >> list as "scary" just because some, perhaps many, >> of them happen to >> promote free software. >> > > Why are you talking about Muslims? Why not talk about Jews or blacks > or Asians or the indigeneous people? The fact you rant about the > "mischaracterization" of Muslims to Mr. Khan is to remind him of > the "characterization" of Muslims. The "mis" looks pretty much like > the canadian way of racial slur in a political correct way. > > >> You can argue that the case of the anti-Muslim bigots is >> worse but that >> would be arguing over shades of grey. Mischaracterizations >> of the >> "other" have historically led to rather >> unpleasant things and they >> invariably start with seemingly innocuous things, like >> labelling the >> "other" as "scary". In this case, that >> can have very real and negative >> consequences if a sufficient number of people who share the >> same >> ignorant beliefs as the original poster encourage >> politicians to pass >> stinky laws like the DMCA in the U.S. and the contemplated >> Bill C-61 here. >> >>> The conversation and intensity could have happened >> among any group of >>> the _same_ancestory_ who happened fanatical about >> their belief. >> >> And it would have been just as stupid and unacceptable in >> that case. >> > > But then no one would try to scare, condescend the other because of > race. My point is you got to refrain from using race to silence/ > discriminate in areas where race has absolutely no relevance. Race > and religion have unique significance compared to other > characterization because of their prevalence, severity and reach. No > other form of discrimination has persevered for so long and at such > great scale. > This is where I just plain disagree. They've prevailed for so long because as I said, they go unquestioned, rather like a large off-white pachiderm occupying a substantial portion of a room. >>> It is just a sad reality in Canadian hidden racism >> that you got first >>> to check "your ancestory" before you make >> your inconvinient point. >> >> Just like anyone else, the original poster has the right to >> say whatever >> he wants, even if he says idiotic things, but I have every >> right to >> challenge him if I disagree. >> -- > > My point was you could and should have disagreed with relevant > points about technology rather than calling on _your_ancestors_. > That is > specially easy when you are arguing in favour of superior technology > and innovative business model. >> >> Again, and this is just my personal opinion and recent realization, thechnology does not stand on its own. It is just as much a product of a culture and society as is language and political norms. Consider the OLPC, is it not just as much a product of a particular brand of cultural imperialism, or at least assumptions about how people should learn? (or even that they should for that matter, education bring another of those feel good International Development paradigms that goes largely unquestioned). So if the OLPC is a cultural and social construction and artefact embodying our "Western" norms and assumptions, what's not to say that race or cultural imperialism isn't at play or relevant to the discussion as well? The question, or analogy in this case, at least bears asking. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 13 13:33:36 2009 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:33:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Who can I contact tonight to find out where the pub night is? Message-ID: Hi all, I unfortunately must miss the meeting tonight, but I can probably make it to the pub night afterwards. 1. Do you know where it is likely to be? 2. If you will be there, what is your contact information? Then I will contact you when you are there to ask you where it is happening. Thanks, -- Jason Spiro: software/web developer, packager, trainer, IT consultant. I support Linux, UNIX, Windows, and more. Contact me to discuss your needs. Cell: (416) 992-3445 / Web: www.jspiro.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 13 16:06:04 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:06:04 -0500 Subject: Who can I contact tonight to find out where the pub night is? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Jason Spiro wrote: > Hi all, > > I unfortunately must miss the meeting tonight, but I can probably make it to the > pub night afterwards. > > 1. Do you know where it is likely to be? > > 2. If you will be there, what is your contact information? Then I will contact > you when you are there to ask you where it is happening. We can actually pretty much tell you in advance... Things happen at the GSU pub... http://gsu.utoronto.ca/pubcafe.html -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Diogenes - "What I like to drink most is wine that belongs to others." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 13 16:29:35 2009 From: jasonspiro4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jason Spiro) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:29:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Who can I contact tonight to find out where the pub night is? References: Message-ID: Christopher Browne writes:> We can actually pretty much tell you in advance... > > Things happen at the GSU pub... > > http://gsu.utoronto.ca/pubcafe.html Excellent, thank you. Why don't you folks mention that fact at http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Meetings? Drew, why don't you specify that fact in the tlug-announce monthly emails? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 13 23:58:57 2009 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:58:57 -0500 Subject: Toronto/Ontario network link health (OT) Message-ID: <496D2AC1.8070109@rogers.com> Off topic... Anyone know if there's a Southern Ontario/Toronto equivalent to this? http://www.internetpulse.net/ Something that lists the peering, latency, etc. Please, no Kamran Khan type responses ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 14 00:10:19 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:10:19 -0500 Subject: Toronto/Ontario network link health (OT) In-Reply-To: <496D2AC1.8070109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <496D2AC1.8070109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <496D2D6B.2080204@dinamis.com> Byron Sonne wrote: > Off topic... > > Anyone know if there's a Southern Ontario/Toronto equivalent to this? > > http://www.internetpulse.net/ > > Something that lists the peering, latency, etc. > > Please, no Kamran Khan type responses ;) What kind of a man are you that asks for information for free??? Who do you think we are???? Your research department??? People need to be paid for their efforts!!! :) I haven't encountered such a thing but I know another place to ask. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 14 00:35:08 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:35:08 -0500 Subject: wordpress with Postgres? In-Reply-To: <910827.87743.qm-ER3pdbdKwIL5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <910827.87743.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <496D333C.5070300@gmail.com> Is there a something like that? Or a similar? But working with postgres? zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 14 07:48:26 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:48:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Microsoft GPS In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901111840l63be0bcei48b6a865f3975de3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> <3a97ef0901111840l63be0bcei48b6a865f3975de3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Tyler Aviss | So what exactly is this? A USB GPS card with software? PCMCIA? If it's | only $50, and it works well for you, please pass info on to the list | as I (and likely others) might be quite interested in these. If it's a | USB device and works with 'nix it would probably do nicely on an EEE | or small laptop? Another coupon to buy this unit for $20 http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/combo_spec.php?pcode=FC3393&id=274 Refurb, 2007, includes "locator" (hardware). Expires Jan 19. Phone for stock before bothering to go. Whole set of coupons: http://www.factorydirect.ca/email_html/090103_Winter_Chill_Coupons_S1.htm (I enjoy looking for interesting things at Factory Direct, but there is a lot of odd junk.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 14 13:53:19 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:53:19 -0500 Subject: GPS pucks In-Reply-To: References: <200901091420.00961.mervc@eol.ca> <3a97ef0901111840l63be0bcei48b6a865f3975de3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231941199.28680.100.camel@leon> I've had a couple of GPS pucks like the one mentioned for a couple of years. They are a great, cheap, way to play with GPS for the first time but are not useful for long term, or general purpose data collection. When collecting data ( surveying ) for OpenStreetMap, the combined GPS puck, plus laptop is large, heavy and too awkward. Would I set it up in the back seat and drive a quick grid survey? Sure. I've done that. But it is much more convenient to use a handheld GPS to collect GPS tracks. Would I use a puck plus in-dash PC to run a complete F/LOSS stack for my car computer? Oh yes. But neither of those are really general purpose use, from an OpenStreetMap perspective. A handheld unit is smaller and lighter than the combined GPS and laptop or netbook. The handheld will have longer battery life, a dozen or more hours. And the handheld will be more resistant to water- or shock-resistant if you are doing a bike-survey, or tracing a park boundary in the snow. Even in driving a residential survey, you'll often see a pedestrian walkway between houses. It's dead-easy to park, grab the handheld, walk the length of the walkway and back then continue the driving survey. The same things applies for adding a park or baseball diamond outline while driving the local roads. A little velcro on the dashboard and GPS can keep the handheld in place on the dashboard. Some handheld GPSes, though closed hardware and often crippled by proprietary formats, can even have OpenStreetMap data loaded on them for map display and navigation. Recently even turn-by-turn routing became possible on some units. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin OpenStreetMap It's fun. It's free. You can help. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 14 17:04:12 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:04:12 -0500 Subject: wordpress with Postgres? In-Reply-To: <496D333C.5070300-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <910827.87743.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <496D333C.5070300@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Is there a something like that? Or a similar? But working with postgres? There has been some discussion of such... http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Alternative_Databases http://wordpress-pg.sourceforge.net/ Robert Treat switched PlanetPostgresql.org to use "sy9"... http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2006-10/msg01274.php http://www.s9y.org/ -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Diogenes - "What I like to drink most is wine that belongs to others." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 14 20:33:47 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:33:47 -0500 Subject: wordpress with Postgres? In-Reply-To: References: <910827.87743.qm@web65605.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <496D333C.5070300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <496E4C2B.3060702@gmail.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> Is there a something like that? Or a similar? But working with postgres? >> > > There has been some discussion of such... > http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Alternative_Databases > http://wordpress-pg.sourceforge.net/ > > Robert Treat switched PlanetPostgresql.org to use "sy9"... > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2006-10/msg01274.php > http://www.s9y.org/ > Thanks, Christopher. Postgres version of wordpress seems to be somewhat outdated. I found http://www.s9y.org/ (serendipity) is using postgres. Looks good, so I am going to try it. My idea was to create a kind of web blog related to this (and possibly other) mailing list. Oh, ok, once there is something to show, I will certainly announce ;) zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 02:37:42 2009 From: lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Julian C. Dunn) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:37:42 +0000 Subject: rescued: 2 external USB Zip 250 drives Message-ID: <1231987062.3720.26.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> My department is moving [floors] and I found 2 USB Zip 250 drives in the garbage. They seem to work. Anyone want them? Pick-up in downtown Toronto. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * Sorry, I'm ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian * only Web 1.0 ] [ gopher://sdf.lonestar.org/11/users/keymaker * compliant! ] [ PGP: 91B3 7A9D 683C 7C16 715F 442C 6065 D533 FDC2 05B9 ] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 14:50:13 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:50:13 -0500 Subject: Network ISO Message-ID: <496F4D25.6020703@tmis.ca> I want to install 50 or so .ISOs on a server. Create a CD that will connect to that server over the network so I can choose a distro and then start the installation I was thinking of PXE, but I do not want to use PXE unless I have to. Getting a PC to boot from PXE or from CD is about the same amount of effort. Is there a project that does something like this? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 15:23:39 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:23:39 -0500 Subject: Network ISO In-Reply-To: <496F4D25.6020703-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <496F4D25.6020703@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <496F54FB.9030501@telly.org> Teddy Mills wrote: > > I want to install 50 or so .ISOs on a server. > Create a CD that will connect to that server over the network so I can > choose a distro and then start the installation > > I was thinking of PXE, but I do not want to use PXE unless I have to. > Getting a PC to boot from PXE or from CD is about the same amount of > effort. > > Is there a project that does something like this? I wonder if the Freedom Toaster, which was originally created to be like a vending machine dispensing CDs, could be easily adapted this way? http://www.freedomtoaster.org/ - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 15:31:08 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:31:08 -0500 Subject: Network ISO In-Reply-To: <496F4D25.6020703-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <496F4D25.6020703@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <496F56BC.8000001@dinamis.com> Teddy Mills wrote: > > I want to install 50 or so .ISOs on a server. > Create a CD that will connect to that server over the network so I can > choose a distro and then start the installation > > I was thinking of PXE, but I do not want to use PXE unless I have to. > Getting a PC to boot from PXE or from CD is about the same amount of > effort. Not if you're doing more than one machine. PXE booting is trivially easy to set up. If you have older machines that don't have boot ROMs, you can still netboot using EtherBoot ROM images on floppies. > Is there a project that does something like this? FAI , which I didn't like. Clonezilla , which I also didn't like, though I don't think it is what you want. , which I've used and like. I've modified that scheme a bit so that I can do Wake-on-Lan an push the installations to the clients via kickstart or preseed. I create a symlink to the boot config I want but I have to remember to remove the symlink after the client has booted via PXE so that I don't get into a loop. The default PXE boot config I have is to boot from the local hard drive. That way, I don't have to run around to all the clients to change the boot order whenever I want to PXE boot. All that manual fiddling led me to Cobbler , which automates the process. I'm quite impressed by it. The ISO images aren't enough. You'll be installing using those and then doing updates. If you're going to install more than one system, it makes sense to create a local cache or repository for your packages along with the updates so that when the installation has completed, you don't have to install updates and you're also gentler on your Internet connection. It makes much more sense fetching the packages from a server on your LAN when you're rolling out 50 machines via PXE as opposed to fetching them from a server on the Internet. My next task is to figure out how to automate the shrinking of the partition used by Windows on a lab full of machines so that I can kickstart Fedora 10 onto the free space. I think I can do it the %pre section of the kickstart file. In the first pass, I'll shrink the Windows partition, reboot, and then do the kickstart install. If I can figure out how to remotely invoke the disk defragmentation utility in XP, I'd be very happy because I would eliminate the need to have someone babysit each of the machines on the network. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 15:57:36 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:57:36 -0500 Subject: Linux on CBC this morning Message-ID: <496F5CF0.3040208@alteeve.com> Hi all, I was wondering if anyone else caught the blurb about Linux this morning on CBC? They were talking about MS' Windows 7 beta and how it's much better than Vista, and how it's something of a mea culpa on MS' part acknowledging that Vista is pretty much a failure. Having used it myself now for a couple weeks, I agree, but I digress. At one point, one of the hosts asked something like "Well, what options do people have?". I was expecting the usual "OS X" answer, but instead he started raving about Linux. Ubuntu, specifically. He was saying how it's almost counter intuitive to say, given Linux's reputation, but that distros like Ubuntu have made Linux easier to use and "funner" than even OS X. Anyway, it was a nice treat to wake up to this morning. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 19:03:52 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:03:52 -0500 Subject: Linux on CBC this morning In-Reply-To: <496F5CF0.3040208-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <496F5CF0.3040208@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <496F8898.3010202@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I was wondering if anyone else caught the blurb about Linux this > morning on CBC? > > They were talking about MS' Windows 7 beta and how it's much better > than Vista, and how it's something of a mea culpa on MS' part > acknowledging that Vista is pretty much a failure. Having used it myself > now for a couple weeks, I agree, but I digress. > > At one point, one of the hosts asked something like "Well, what > options do people have?". I was expecting the usual "OS X" answer, but > instead he started raving about Linux. Ubuntu, specifically. He was > saying how it's almost counter intuitive to say, given Linux's > reputation, but that distros like Ubuntu have made Linux easier to use > and "funner" than even OS X. > > Anyway, it was a nice treat to wake up to this morning. Didn't hear that no, but I'm guessing it was Jesse Hirsh? He's CBC radio's goto guy for tech related stuff, and can be counted on to always mention and support Linux where it is relevant. If Jesse lurks on this list (as may well be the case) thanks! If it wasn't Jesse on the radio this morning, then we have 2 Linux peddlers inside the CBC, which is even better :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 16:14:05 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:14:05 -0500 Subject: Network ISO In-Reply-To: <496F4D25.6020703-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <496F4D25.6020703@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20090115161405.GF29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 09:50:13AM -0500, Teddy Mills wrote: > I want to install 50 or so .ISOs on a server. > Create a CD that will connect to that server over the network so I can > choose a distro and then start the installation > > I was thinking of PXE, but I do not want to use PXE unless I have to. > Getting a PC to boot from PXE or from CD is about the same amount of effort. > > Is there a project that does something like this? The BIOS won't boot from a cdrom that isn't directly attached. Network booting involves pxe or other network boot options. There is no cdrom emulation over ethernet standard. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 16:14:26 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:14:26 -0500 Subject: Linux on CBC this morning In-Reply-To: <496F8898.3010202-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <496F5CF0.3040208@alteeve.com> <496F8898.3010202@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <496F60E2.1090702@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I was wondering if anyone else caught the blurb about Linux this >> morning on CBC? >> >> They were talking about MS' Windows 7 beta and how it's much better >> than Vista, and how it's something of a mea culpa on MS' part >> acknowledging that Vista is pretty much a failure. Having used it myself >> now for a couple weeks, I agree, but I digress. >> >> At one point, one of the hosts asked something like "Well, what >> options do people have?". I was expecting the usual "OS X" answer, but >> instead he started raving about Linux. Ubuntu, specifically. He was >> saying how it's almost counter intuitive to say, given Linux's >> reputation, but that distros like Ubuntu have made Linux easier to use >> and "funner" than even OS X. >> >> Anyway, it was a nice treat to wake up to this morning. > > Didn't hear that no, but I'm guessing it was Jesse Hirsh? He's CBC > radio's goto guy for tech related stuff, and can be counted on to always > mention and support Linux where it is relevant. If Jesse lurks on this > list (as may well be the case) thanks! > > If it wasn't Jesse on the radio this morning, then we have 2 Linux > peddlers inside the CBC, which is even better :) > > Jamon I believe it was Jesse, though my sleep addled brain refuses to say for sure. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 16:22:51 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:22:51 -0800 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage Message-ID: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> This link came through an internal mailing list at work today: http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184 Summary: Lady wants to go back to school, so buys a computer from Dell. The sales guy encourages her to choose Ubuntu over Windows. She discovers Ubuntu "won't work" and drops out of school. Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu couldn't get on the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad press for Ubuntu. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 16:28:33 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:28:33 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > This link came through an internal mailing list at work today: > http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184 > > Summary: Lady wants to go back to school, so buys a computer from > Dell. The sales guy encourages her to choose Ubuntu over Windows. > She discovers Ubuntu "won't work" and drops out of school. > > Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu couldn't get on > the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad press for Ubuntu. > > Ian Saw this on Digg... Looks like they were actually gunning for an anti-Dell angle, according to the editor's blog, and missed entirely. From what I read, she didn't know anything about her computer, and just threw her hands up in frustration and gave up without doing even the most cursory research. To be honest, it sounds to me like she wasn't very motivated to go to school and used this as a convenient excuse. Also, the article says that she couldn't run her Verizon CD. Didn't talk about her actually connecting. Again, I think she just gave up without trying. Regardless, she sounds like the kind of user that is honestly best suited to Windows or OS X. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 16:47:09 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:47:09 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090115114709.1cd70d2b@teksavvy.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > This link came through an internal mailing list at work today: > http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184 > > Summary: Lady wants to go back to school, so buys a computer from > Dell. The sales guy encourages her to choose Ubuntu over Windows. > She discovers Ubuntu "won't work" and drops out of school. > > Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu couldn't get on > the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad press for Ubuntu. This is a nothing story from a nothing source written by a nobody. It doesn't matter at all, except to the extent that people who might actually like Ubuntu are for some misguided reason paying attention to it and posting it to a million discussion groups. Buried. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 16:51:37 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:51:37 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <496F6431.8070800-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090115115137.6342ba57@teksavvy.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Ian Petersen wrote: > > This link came through an internal mailing list at work today: > > http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184 > > > > Summary: Lady wants to go back to school, so buys a computer from > > Dell. The sales guy encourages her to choose Ubuntu over Windows. > > She discovers Ubuntu "won't work" and drops out of school. > > > > Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu couldn't get on > > the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad press for Ubuntu. > > > > Ian > > Saw this on Digg... Looks like they were actually gunning for an > anti-Dell angle, according to the editor's blog, and missed entirely. > > From what I read, she didn't know anything about her computer, and just > threw her hands up in frustration and gave up without doing even the > most cursory research. To be honest, it sounds to me like she wasn't > very motivated to go to school and used this as a convenient excuse. > Also, the article says that she couldn't run her Verizon CD. Didn't talk > about her actually connecting. Again, I think she just gave up without > trying. > > Regardless, she sounds like the kind of user that is honestly best > suited to Windows Windows is suited to no one: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9125941 and that's the news people _should_ be reading, not crap from some podunk news outlet written by and about some halfwit. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 16:56:19 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:56:19 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <20090115114709.1cd70d2b-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <20090115114709.1cd70d2b@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <496F6AB3.5010708@telly.org> JoeHill wrote: > This is a nothing story from a nothing source written by a nobody. Even if that's all true, the wonders of the Web allow it to be spread around far more than it deserves. Dismissing the article this way does not diminish its potential damage. > It doesn't matter at all, except to the extent that people who might actually like Ubuntu are for some misguided reason paying attention to it and posting it to a million discussion groups. > It matters to the point that it's a new excuse usable by those who have a vested interest in not considering open source. Given that Ubuntu is generally the Linux media darling and the usual default considered by new users, a knock against Ubuntu at this level is a general knock on Linux. Advocates at least ought to be prepared when this example -- useless as you think it may be -- gets trumped up by someone as a(nother) reason to stay with Microsoft. In these situations it's often helpful to not be caught offguard, even if the accusation is easy to refute. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 17:03:37 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:03:37 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090115170337.GG29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:22:51AM -0800, Ian Petersen wrote: > This link came through an internal mailing list at work today: > http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184 > > Summary: Lady wants to go back to school, so buys a computer from > Dell. The sales guy encourages her to choose Ubuntu over Windows. > She discovers Ubuntu "won't work" and drops out of school. > > Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu couldn't get on > the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad press for Ubuntu. Or bad press for Dell or bad press for Verizon. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 17:14:50 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:14:50 -0800 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <20090115170337.GG29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <20090115170337.GG29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420901150914i2371b98bkcd1bad8868754d@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:22:51AM -0800, Ian Petersen wrote: >> Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu couldn't get on >> the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad press for Ubuntu. > > Or bad press for Dell or bad press for Verizon. While I can see it being bad press for Dell, "everyone knows" Verison is evil--it is a telco, after all--so I don't see it being much of a problem for Verizon. In fact, Verizon has offered to help the woman connect to the net without running the Windows-only CD, whereas Dell was unavailable for comment. Interestingly, when I checked the story again to confirm that Verizon had offered to help the woman, there's an update saying that this story is the most widely read story ever posted to www.wkowtv.com. They plan on updating the story tonight with commentary on the story's spread around the net. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 17:53:08 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:53:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <496F6431.8070800-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <530564.80615.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Madison Kelly wrote: > From: Madison Kelly > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 11:28 AM > Ian Petersen wrote: > > This link came through an internal mailing list at > work today: > > http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184 > > > > Summary: Lady wants to go back to school, so buys a > computer from > > Dell. The sales guy encourages her to choose Ubuntu > over Windows. > > She discovers Ubuntu "won't work" and > drops out of school. > > > > Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu > couldn't get on > > the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad > press for Ubuntu. > > > > Ian > > Saw this on Digg... Looks like they were actually gunning > for an anti-Dell angle, according to the editor's blog, > and missed entirely. > > From what I read, she didn't know anything about her > computer, and just threw her hands up in frustration and > gave up without doing even the most cursory research. To be > honest, it sounds to me like she wasn't very motivated > to go to school and used this as a convenient excuse. Also, > the article says that she couldn't run her Verizon CD. > Didn't talk about her actually connecting. Again, I > think she just gave up without trying. > > Regardless, she sounds like the kind of user that is > honestly best suited to Windows or OS X. > > Madi I bet she would have similar problems with windows as well. The main difference will be that will not be reported at all. I see many people who can "live" with any problem as long as it is Windows while they can't stand Linux for the slightest problem. It is all a matter of perception. On the other hand, I had taken a Systems Analysis and Design course at Ryerson and sadly the instructor was not even interested to hear about linux or open source software. The option she gave the students was to use either Word 2000 or Word 97 document (not even PDF was acceptable for her) for submission and Visio or Rational Rose for UML modeling. She was gave me a bit of a warning that I am on my own if Umbrello's models (symbols and diagraming) are not 100% compatible to Visio's when I told her I will be using Umbrelo for UML modeling. She, being a university professor teaching systems analysis and design, should have been the last person to discourage students from exploring alternative software. EK > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 17:54:32 2009 From: asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Asaf Maruf) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:54:32 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49e826e90901150954h45ff6e6ds4b1fafb0ad7725a8@mail.gmail.com> This is an issue that I have been thinking about. The usual scenario is that companies see value in implementing a Linux based solution. However, the in-house IT staff is not able to deliver a good solution due to lack of Linux/FOSS technical skills and the management steps in to revert to a "known good solution" --- Windows. Linux gets bad mouthed for no reason at all. The management is not aware of the technical issues and perceives that Linux as a solution failed. The unfortunate result is that Linux is unable to get introduced in the enterprise especially the SME sector. Asaf On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Ian Petersen wrote: > This link came through an internal mailing list at work today: > http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184 > > Summary: Lady wants to go back to school, so buys a computer from > Dell. The sales guy encourages her to choose Ubuntu over Windows. > She discovers Ubuntu "won't work" and drops out of school. > > Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu couldn't get on > the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad press for Ubuntu. > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- 40 isn't old. If you're a tree. LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/asafmaruf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 18:23:54 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:23:54 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <496F6AB3.5010708-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <20090115114709.1cd70d2b@teksavvy.com> <496F6AB3.5010708@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090115132354.5ae263f1@teksavvy.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > JoeHill wrote: > > > This is a nothing story from a nothing source written by a nobody. > Even if that's all true, the wonders of the Web allow it to be spread > around far more than it deserves. Dismissing the article this way does > not diminish its potential damage. Any damage done, as I said, is from people spreading the story. It is not 'wonders' of anything, or magic or invisible, it's you. > > It doesn't matter at all, except to the extent that people who might > > actually like Ubuntu are for some misguided reason paying attention to it > > and posting it to a million discussion groups. > > It matters to the point that it's a new excuse usable by those who have > a vested interest in not considering open source. Given that Ubuntu is > generally the Linux media darling and the usual default considered by > new users, a knock against Ubuntu at this level is a general knock on > Linux. Advocates at least ought to be prepared when this example -- > useless as you think it may be -- gets trumped up by someone as > a(nother) reason to stay with Microsoft. In these situations it's often > helpful to not be caught offguard, even if the accusation is easy to refute. No, a lot of people with nothing to do are making a lot out of nothing. It's a Paris Hilton type story, except it's about Ubuntu, so it's got you all hyped, just like the person who posted it to Digg wanted. You've all been duped. Nice. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 18:26:58 2009 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:26:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <49e826e90901150954h45ff6e6ds4b1fafb0ad7725a8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49e826e90901150954h45ff6e6ds4b1fafb0ad7725a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <187172.75404.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Asaf Maruf wrote: > From: Asaf Maruf > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 12:54 PM > This is an issue that I have been thinking about. The usual > scenario is that > companies see value in implementing a Linux based solution. > However, the > in-house IT staff is not able to deliver a good solution > due to lack of > Linux/FOSS technical skills and the management steps in to > revert to a > "known good solution" --- Windows. > I don't think so. Rather it is about expectation much like other forms of discrimination. If FOSS is involved in a solution any problem is ascribed to it. Users also find a new escape goat for whatever they lack in (including the discipline to do their job). I sometimes try to remind people that encounter problem with Linux/FOSS that they have been and will encountering problems no matter what software they use. The question they should ask is will they have more or less problem than no problem if they switch to/from Windows and in my opinion, having worked with both Linux and Windows, at this time it is easier and less problematic to use Linux/FOSS than Windows. Some understand my argument and try to see if that is really true or not (comparing their problem with others) others don't unde rstand the reasoning. Those who think either there should be no problem when using Linux/FOSS or it doesn't work are hard to convience. Many managers are like that, unfortunately. > > Linux gets bad mouthed for no reason at all. The management > is not aware of > the technical issues and perceives that Linux as a solution > failed. > > The unfortunate result is that Linux is unable to get > introduced in the > enterprise especially the SME sector. > At this point in time, I think it is a PR thing rather than technical issues that is holdinding back Linux/FOSS. A good PR can convience one to live with crap or worship celebrities. While if you are not popular, your recommendation, no matter how good they are, are dumped or often pushed aside with "appreciation". EK > Asaf > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Ian Petersen > wrote: > > > This link came through an internal mailing list at > work today: > > http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184 > > > > Summary: Lady wants to go back to school, so buys a > computer from > > Dell. The sales guy encourages her to choose Ubuntu > over Windows. > > She discovers Ubuntu "won't work" and > drops out of school. > > > > Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu > couldn't get on > > the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad > press for Ubuntu. > > > > Ian > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below > 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > -- > 40 isn't old. If you're a tree. > > LinkedIn Profile: > http://www.linkedin.com/in/asafmaruf __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 18:28:12 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:28:12 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <7ac602420901150914i2371b98bkcd1bad8868754d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <20090115170337.GG29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420901150914i2371b98bkcd1bad8868754d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090115132812.5a014774@teksavvy.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:22:51AM -0800, Ian Petersen wrote: > >> Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu couldn't get on > >> the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad press for Ubuntu. > > > > Or bad press for Dell or bad press for Verizon. > > While I can see it being bad press for Dell, "everyone knows" Verison > is evil--it is a telco, after all--so I don't see it being much of a > problem for Verizon. In fact, Verizon has offered to help the woman > connect to the net without running the Windows-only CD, whereas Dell > was unavailable for comment. > > Interestingly, when I checked the story again to confirm that Verizon > had offered to help the woman, there's an update saying that this > story is the most widely read story ever posted to www.wkowtv.com. > They plan on updating the story tonight with commentary on the story's > spread around the net. _all of which_ only happened because it was posted to Digg and the Ubuntu/Linux fans unwittingly stepped in the trap. It's a troll, and we're falling for it all the way. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 18:41:39 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:41:39 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <530564.80615.qm-RyNgWUfQ9Bf5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <530564.80615.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <496F8363.2090307@rogers.com> E K wrote: > > > I bet she would have similar problems with windows as well. The main difference will be that will not be reported at all. I see many people who can "live" with any problem as long as it is Windows while they can't stand Linux for the slightest problem. It is all a matter of perception. > > On the other hand, I had taken a Systems Analysis and Design course at Ryerson and sadly the instructor was not even interested to hear about linux or open source software. The option she gave the students was to use either Word 2000 or Word 97 document (not even PDF was acceptable for her) for submission and Visio or Rational Rose for UML modeling. She was gave me a bit of a warning that I am on my own if Umbrello's models (symbols and diagraming) are not 100% compatible to Visio's when I told her I will be using Umbrelo for UML modeling. She, being a university professor teaching systems analysis and design, should have been the last person to discourage students from exploring alternative software. > That's not the professors's doing. Ryerson uses an anti-plagiarism service that is strictly Windows centric. Any written work must be also be submitted to the service and it will only accept work that originated from a Windows box or a Mac. If this service hasn't recorded your effort, the professor is prohibited from marking it even if it was submitted to him / her on time. When I was there I wrote my stuff in Open Office, saved it in .doc on a usb stick and then used one of the school's computers to submit it to the service. It was a pain in the ass. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 18:47:30 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:47:30 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <496F8363.2090307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <530564.80615.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <496F8363.2090307@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090115134730.55105d1b@teksavvy.com> John McGregor wrote: > E K wrote: > > > > > > I bet she would have similar problems with windows as well. The main > > difference will be that will not be reported at all. I see many people who > > can "live" with any problem as long as it is Windows while they can't stand > > Linux for the slightest problem. It is all a matter of perception. > > > > On the other hand, I had taken a Systems Analysis and Design course at > > Ryerson and sadly the instructor was not even interested to hear about > > linux or open source software. The option she gave the students was to use > > either Word 2000 or Word 97 document (not even PDF was acceptable for her) > > for submission and Visio or Rational Rose for UML modeling. She was gave me > > a bit of a warning that I am on my own if Umbrello's models (symbols and > > diagraming) are not 100% compatible to Visio's when I told her I will be > > using Umbrelo for UML modeling. She, being a university professor teaching > > systems analysis and design, should have been the last person to discourage > > students from exploring alternative software. > > That's not the professors's doing. Ryerson uses an anti-plagiarism > service that is strictly Windows centric. Any written work must be also > be submitted to the service and it will only accept work that originated > from a Windows box or a Mac. If this service hasn't recorded your > effort, the professor is prohibited from marking it even if it was > submitted to him / her on time. When I was there I wrote my stuff in > Open Office, saved it in .doc on a usb stick and then used one of the > school's computers to submit it to the service. It was a pain in the ass. Now _that_ would make an interesting news story. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 18:54:42 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:54:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <49e826e90901150954h45ff6e6ds4b1fafb0ad7725a8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <49e826e90901150954h45ff6e6ds4b1fafb0ad7725a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Asaf Maruf wrote: > The unfortunate result is that Linux is unable to get introduced in the > enterprise especially the SME sector. Unable to be introduced? Linux has been widely deployed in large companies even long before it became popular with the IT press. I have personal knowledge of large corporations relying on Linux as far back as 1995. Since about 2000 it's popularity has just exploded. Linux is everywhere. Management are often quite happy to bring in consultants. That role has been a big part of my day job for 10+ years. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 19:01:01 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:01:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <49e826e90901150954h45ff6e6ds4b1fafb0ad7725a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Asaf Maruf wrote: > >> The unfortunate result is that Linux is unable to get introduced in the >> enterprise especially the SME sector. > > Unable to be introduced? Linux has been widely deployed in large companies I wasn't very clear here sorry. Large and medium size companies are often heavily reliant on Linux often using it in a mix with Solaris and/or MS-Windows. Small companies have been more hesitant over support concerns. Even so I've found alot of companies down to about 20 or 30 employees are attracted by the cost savings. Below that there is hesitation in my experience but I've known owners of very small companies that have taken the plunge. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 19:16:31 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:16:31 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <49e826e90901150954h45ff6e6ds4b1fafb0ad7725a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090115141631.7e0ded0d@teksavvy.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Asaf Maruf wrote: > > > The unfortunate result is that Linux is unable to get introduced in the > > enterprise especially the SME sector. > > Unable to be introduced? Linux has been widely deployed in large > companies even long before it became popular with the IT press. I have > personal knowledge of large corporations relying on Linux as far back as > 1995. Since about 2000 it's popularity has just exploded. Linux is > everywhere. > > Management are often quite happy to bring in consultants. That role has > been a big part of my day job for 10+ years. ...but you won't be reading that on Digg, and so the amateur FOSS pundits will never see it. Thank you for that dose of reality :-) -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 19:52:22 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:52:22 -0500 Subject: exchange server unix Message-ID: <32f6a8880901151152v4aa9bd7fu7825fd46ffdeeb10@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any experience using Open Source software that works with outlook (So a exchange compatible server). I need it for mainly calender sharing. I'm fine with doing the nitty gritty as long as its been known to work. If anyone has successfully used one, please let m know which one you've used. Otherwise, i'll just start testing a variety of ones. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 20:22:45 2009 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:22:45 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? Message-ID: Hi folks, Looks like I might have to be on a work conference call tonight, using Skype. I had Skype working when my system was using Fedora 8, but an upgrade to F9 went badly so I moved to Ubuntu 8.10. I installed Skype recently but couldn't get it to work with my USB headset. Now I'm looking at have a colleague over for the conference call, so I'd like to have some sort of speakerphone setup. I've googled for this (skype ubuntu speakerphone -headset) and found this page from 2.5 years ago: http://www.hotvoipnews.com/blog_46.shtml The unit sure looks cool, but I'm not sure I can source one here in Toronto in the next six hours .. unless someone on the list can a) suggest a local store that might carry this unit or b) tell me that using a bog-standard microphone plugged into my sound card should work fine. Comments? -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 20:42:45 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:42:45 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99a6c38f0901151242g279dc327v90399b494c5eaaa0@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Alex Beamish wrote: [...] > The unit sure looks cool, but I'm not sure I can source one here in > Toronto in the next six hours .. unless someone on the list can a) > suggest a local store that might carry this unit or b) tell me that > using a bog-standard microphone plugged into my sound card should work > fine. > > Comments? I've been using (literally) a dollar-store microphone on my Kubuntu 8.10 system without issue for a while now... at least I haven't heard any complaints yet. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 20:43:26 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:43:26 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 03:22:45PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: > Looks like I might have to be on a work conference call tonight, using Skype. > > I had Skype working when my system was using Fedora 8, but an upgrade > to F9 went badly so I moved to Ubuntu 8.10. I installed Skype recently > but couldn't get it to work with my USB headset. Now I'm looking at > have a colleague over for the conference call, so I'd like to have > some sort of speakerphone setup. > > I've googled for this (skype ubuntu speakerphone -headset) and found > this page from 2.5 years ago: > > http://www.hotvoipnews.com/blog_46.shtml > > The unit sure looks cool, but I'm not sure I can source one here in > Toronto in the next six hours .. unless someone on the list can a) > suggest a local store that might carry this unit or b) tell me that > using a bog-standard microphone plugged into my sound card should work > fine. > > Comments? Skype sucks. The protocol is disgusting from a network point of view. So far I highly encourage people to switch to something standards compliant, like sip and h.323. I use ekiga, which uses those standards, and has windows and linux software available and works with lots of other programs (including I believe microsoft netmeeting). Avoid vendor lockin by refusing to use skype. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 20:48:28 2009 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:48:28 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <20090115204326.GH29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 03:22:45PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: >> Looks like I might have to be on a work conference call tonight, using Skype. >> >> I had Skype working when my system was using Fedora 8, but an upgrade >> to F9 went badly so I moved to Ubuntu 8.10. I installed Skype recently >> but couldn't get it to work with my USB headset. Now I'm looking at >> have a colleague over for the conference call, so I'd like to have >> some sort of speakerphone setup. >> >> I've googled for this (skype ubuntu speakerphone -headset) and found >> this page from 2.5 years ago: >> >> http://www.hotvoipnews.com/blog_46.shtml >> >> The unit sure looks cool, but I'm not sure I can source one here in >> Toronto in the next six hours .. unless someone on the list can a) >> suggest a local store that might carry this unit or b) tell me that >> using a bog-standard microphone plugged into my sound card should work >> fine. >> >> Comments? > > Skype sucks. The protocol is disgusting from a network point of view. Possibly. That's not my concern right now -- the conference call is on Skype, so if I want to take part, a Skype-ing I will go. :) > So far I highly encourage people to switch to something standards > compliant, like sip and h.323. I use ekiga, which uses those standards, > and has windows and linux software available and works with lots of > other programs (including I believe microsoft netmeeting). Ekiga (formerly known as GnomeMeeting) looks interesting, and I'll try it out. Thanks for the suggestion. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 21:08:53 2009 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:08:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <290d0d5d467df60affa8830ca7e20a82.squirrel@webmail.vex.net> One word: PEBCAK (problem exists between chair and keyboard) :-) Paul King > This link came through an internal mailing list at work today: > http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184 > > Summary: Lady wants to go back to school, so buys a computer from > Dell. The sales guy encourages her to choose Ubuntu over Windows. > She discovers Ubuntu "won't work" and drops out of school. > > Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu couldn't get on > the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad press for Ubuntu. > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 00:44:29 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:44:29 -0500 Subject: exchange server unix In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880901151152v4aa9bd7fu7825fd46ffdeeb10-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880901151152v4aa9bd7fu7825fd46ffdeeb10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496FD86D.8010109@utoronto.ca> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi, > > I was wondering if anyone has any experience using Open Source > software that works with outlook (So a exchange compatible server). > > I need it for mainly calender sharing. I'm fine with doing the nitty > gritty as long as its been known to work. > > If anyone has successfully used one, please let m know which one you've used. > > Otherwise, i'll just start testing a variety of ones. I'm not a fan, but Kolab works. It installs it's own binaries in /kolab and is essentially an entire distribution running in parallel to whichever you have installed. It does use somewhat standard things like postfix, spamassassin, amavisd, but their use of cyrus for imap is a real pain. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 22:25:56 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:25:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <20090115170337.GG29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <344247.57715.qm@web59512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello gang! I'm new to this group. I'm an inspiring Linux fan. Bottom line, I can not see Dell, Ubuntu or Version all or separately being the issue. They are all to big to be putting themselve is bad press. I put it back on a person that doesn't have ambition, drive, etc to get on with her life, school etc. Regards! Abidel ________________________________ From: Lennart Sorensen To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 12:03:37 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 08:22:51AM -0800, Ian Petersen wrote: > This link came through an internal mailing list at work today: > http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184 > > Summary: Lady wants to go back to school, so buys a computer from > Dell. The sales guy encourages her to choose Ubuntu over Windows. > She discovers Ubuntu "won't work" and drops out of school. > > Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu couldn't get on > the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad press for Ubuntu. Or bad press for Dell or bad press for Verizon. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 22:44:45 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:44:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <772660.21573.qm@web59503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I skip all the mess completely by using Voip. Mine is by igonet.com. I'm waiting for magicjack.com to come up with Canadian phone numbers. kind regards Abidel ________________________________ From: Alex Beamish To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 3:48:28 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 03:22:45PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: >> Looks like I might have to be on a work conference call tonight, using Skype. >> >> I had Skype working when my system was using Fedora 8, but an upgrade >> to F9 went badly so I moved to Ubuntu 8.10. I installed Skype recently >> but couldn't get it to work with my USB headset. Now I'm looking at >> have a colleague over for the conference call, so I'd like to have >> some sort of speakerphone setup. >> >> I've googled for this (skype ubuntu speakerphone -headset) and found >> this page from 2.5 years ago: >> >> http://www.hotvoipnews.com/blog_46.shtml >> >> The unit sure looks cool, but I'm not sure I can source one here in >> Toronto in the next six hours .. unless someone on the list can a) >> suggest a local store that might carry this unit or b) tell me that >> using a bog-standard microphone plugged into my sound card should work >> fine. >> >> Comments? > > Skype sucks. The protocol is disgusting from a network point of view. Possibly. That's not my concern right now -- the conference call is on Skype, so if I want to take part, a Skype-ing I will go. :) > So far I highly encourage people to switch to something standards > compliant, like sip and h.323. I use ekiga, which uses those standards, > and has windows and linux software available and works with lots of > other programs (including I believe microsoft netmeeting). Ekiga (formerly known as GnomeMeeting) looks interesting, and I'll try it out. Thanks for the suggestion. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 23:23:42 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:23:42 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <20090115141631.7e0ded0d-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <49e826e90901150954h45ff6e6ds4b1fafb0ad7725a8@mail.gmail.com> <20090115141631.7e0ded0d@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <496FC57E.7030905@utoronto.ca> JoeHill wrote: > Robert Brockway wrote: > >> On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Asaf Maruf wrote: >> >>> The unfortunate result is that Linux is unable to get introduced in the >>> enterprise especially the SME sector. >> Unable to be introduced? Linux has been widely deployed in large >> companies even long before it became popular with the IT press. I have >> personal knowledge of large corporations relying on Linux as far back as >> 1995. Since about 2000 it's popularity has just exploded. Linux is >> everywhere. >> >> Management are often quite happy to bring in consultants. That role has >> been a big part of my day job for 10+ years. > > ...but you won't be reading that on Digg, and so the amateur FOSS pundits will > never see it. Thank you for that dose of reality :-) Regardless though, what they do see is Ubuntu & Linux. In some instances "no press is bad press" holds true (though with the Internet there's an easily accessed record). Give it a day or two more and it'll be all but forgotten. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 00:10:21 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:10:21 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <20090115204326.GH29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 03:22:45PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: >> Looks like I might have to be on a work conference call tonight, using Skype. >> >> I had Skype working when my system was using Fedora 8, but an upgrade >> to F9 went badly so I moved to Ubuntu 8.10. I installed Skype recently >> but couldn't get it to work with my USB headset. Now I'm looking at >> have a colleague over for the conference call, so I'd like to have >> some sort of speakerphone setup. >> >> I've googled for this (skype ubuntu speakerphone -headset) and found >> this page from 2.5 years ago: >> >> http://www.hotvoipnews.com/blog_46.shtml >> >> The unit sure looks cool, but I'm not sure I can source one here in >> Toronto in the next six hours .. unless someone on the list can a) >> suggest a local store that might carry this unit or b) tell me that >> using a bog-standard microphone plugged into my sound card should work >> fine. >> >> Comments? > > Skype sucks. The protocol is disgusting from a network point of view. > > So far I highly encourage people to switch to something standards > compliant, like sip and h.323. I use ekiga, which uses those standards, > and has windows and linux software available and works with lots of > other programs (including I believe microsoft netmeeting). > > Avoid vendor lockin by refusing to use skype. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I don't really want to start a flamewar here, but I've been noticing a lot of responses like this lately in the list. A well-intended suggestion is one thing, but a response such as "what you're using sucks, switch to what I'm using" isn't very productive, and doesn't really paint the group overall in a good light (these emails becoming part of a longer-term archive). I'm not about to volunteer myself as a list-PR-overlord, but it would be nice if people would perhaps consider slightly more constructive way of going about things. People having varying preferences, and varying amounts of time to try new ideas, so when they're asking for "suggestions on using X" I don't think that "X sucks, dump it and use Y" is overly constructive. Just my 2c... - TJA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 00:26:36 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:26:36 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496FD43C.7050201@utoronto.ca> Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 03:22:45PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: >>> Looks like I might have to be on a work conference call tonight, using Skype. >>> >>> I had Skype working when my system was using Fedora 8, but an upgrade >>> to F9 went badly so I moved to Ubuntu 8.10. I installed Skype recently >>> but couldn't get it to work with my USB headset. Now I'm looking at >>> have a colleague over for the conference call, so I'd like to have >>> some sort of speakerphone setup. >>> >>> I've googled for this (skype ubuntu speakerphone -headset) and found >>> this page from 2.5 years ago: >>> >>> http://www.hotvoipnews.com/blog_46.shtml >>> >>> The unit sure looks cool, but I'm not sure I can source one here in >>> Toronto in the next six hours .. unless someone on the list can a) >>> suggest a local store that might carry this unit or b) tell me that >>> using a bog-standard microphone plugged into my sound card should work >>> fine. >>> >>> Comments? >> Skype sucks. The protocol is disgusting from a network point of view. >> >> So far I highly encourage people to switch to something standards >> compliant, like sip and h.323. I use ekiga, which uses those standards, >> and has windows and linux software available and works with lots of >> other programs (including I believe microsoft netmeeting). >> >> Avoid vendor lockin by refusing to use skype. >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > I don't really want to start a flamewar here, but I've been noticing a > lot of responses like this lately in the list. A well-intended > suggestion is one thing, but a response such as "what you're using > sucks, switch to what I'm using" isn't very productive, and doesn't > really paint the group overall in a good light (these emails becoming > part of a longer-term archive). > > I'm not about to volunteer myself as a list-PR-overlord, but it would > be nice if people would perhaps consider slightly more constructive > way of going about things. > > People having varying preferences, and varying amounts of time to try > new ideas, so when they're asking for "suggestions on using X" I don't > think that "X sucks, dump it and use Y" is overly constructive. True enough, but in the case of skype, it really does suck, 110% of the time. Admittedly the OP did note that it would be required and some suggestions were given before the skype bashing began in earnest. However, as a part of a public record and archive, it should certainly be made known that, at this point in time, skype truly does suck as understood by a particular set of users (those using Fedora 9, Ubuntu 8.10, and USB headsets). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 00:40:48 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:40:48 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <496FD43C.7050201-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad@mail.gmail.com> <496FD43C.7050201@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901151640t79000c41s5d76faa02d857373@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Lennart Sorensen >> wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 03:22:45PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: >>>> >>>> Looks like I might have to be on a work conference call tonight, using >>>> Skype. >>>> >>>> I had Skype working when my system was using Fedora 8, but an upgrade >>>> to F9 went badly so I moved to Ubuntu 8.10. I installed Skype recently >>>> but couldn't get it to work with my USB headset. Now I'm looking at >>>> have a colleague over for the conference call, so I'd like to have >>>> some sort of speakerphone setup. >>>> >>>> I've googled for this (skype ubuntu speakerphone -headset) and found >>>> this page from 2.5 years ago: >>>> >>>> http://www.hotvoipnews.com/blog_46.shtml >>>> >>>> The unit sure looks cool, but I'm not sure I can source one here in >>>> Toronto in the next six hours .. unless someone on the list can a) >>>> suggest a local store that might carry this unit or b) tell me that >>>> using a bog-standard microphone plugged into my sound card should work >>>> fine. >>>> >>>> Comments? >>> >>> Skype sucks. The protocol is disgusting from a network point of view. >>> >>> So far I highly encourage people to switch to something standards >>> compliant, like sip and h.323. I use ekiga, which uses those standards, >>> and has windows and linux software available and works with lots of >>> other programs (including I believe microsoft netmeeting). >>> >>> Avoid vendor lockin by refusing to use skype. >>> >>> -- >>> Len Sorensen >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> I don't really want to start a flamewar here, but I've been noticing a >> lot of responses like this lately in the list. A well-intended >> suggestion is one thing, but a response such as "what you're using >> sucks, switch to what I'm using" isn't very productive, and doesn't >> really paint the group overall in a good light (these emails becoming >> part of a longer-term archive). >> >> I'm not about to volunteer myself as a list-PR-overlord, but it would >> be nice if people would perhaps consider slightly more constructive >> way of going about things. >> >> People having varying preferences, and varying amounts of time to try >> new ideas, so when they're asking for "suggestions on using X" I don't >> think that "X sucks, dump it and use Y" is overly constructive. > > True enough, but in the case of skype, it really does suck, 110% of the > time. Admittedly the OP did note that it would be required and some > suggestions were given before the skype bashing began in earnest. However, > as a part of a public record and archive, it should certainly be made known > that, at this point in time, skype truly does suck as understood by a > particular set of users (those using Fedora 9, Ubuntu 8.10, and USB > headsets). > > Jamon I actually have a USB sound-adaptor which I need to use for skype or any other input (soundcard in my laptop is newer and the mic isn't working with ALSA). It's actually worked OK for me, but it shows up as just a regular ol' C-Media card for most apps anyhow. I was considering a USB headset for convenience though, likely one of the logitech ones used with PS3, etc. What's broken with them? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 16:52:18 2009 From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen Thornton) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:52:18 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <20090115115137.6342ba57-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <20090115115137.6342ba57@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <1232038338.5599.79.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> Thank you for calling me a halfwit! My IQ is most probably three times yours based on your posting but I have other priorities in my life and although you do not realize this, it does take a certain amount of content in programming to begin using Linux. Maureen On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 11:51 -0500, JoeHill wrote: > > Regardless, she sounds like the kind of user that is honestly best > > suited to Windows > > Windows is suited to no one: > > http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9125941 > > and that's the news people _should_ be reading, not crap from some podunk news > outlet written by and about some halfwit. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 15 16:48:11 2009 From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen Thornton) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:48:11 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <496F6431.8070800-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> Okay, this I have heard a number of times and is why I have joined Colin and Jon to try to educate the common mass. Usually I just lurk on this sight and learn as much as I can but this touches me where it hurts. I am not a programmer nor a computer whizz or guru, I am an Executive Assistant who normally has an IT dept. taking care of problems. This said, I had Linux put on a machine and handed to me to try by a programmer (those of you who know me will guess who!) I hated and loved it! Loved it for the idea of a free system for all those who could not and should not have to pay the Microsoft shit. Hated it 'cos you had to know too much about computers and realized where Microsoft had jumped way ahead with their thinking. It has taken me four years to get comfortable with Linux, most of my friends and co-workers that I turned on to Linux have done exactly what this lady has done...given up and (fortunately had the cash) purchased Windows, taken it so someone who understands computers and had it installed. If you guys want to promote Linux to "everyman" make it more user friendly for the rank that just wish to turn it on and it works. I have had Ubunutu Installed on my Toshiba laptop in July and I am still trying to get it up to where I want and need it! My two bits worth. Maureen On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 11:28 -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Ian Petersen wrote: > > This link came through an internal mailing list at work today: > > http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184 > > > > Summary: Lady wants to go back to school, so buys a computer from > > Dell. The sales guy encourages her to choose Ubuntu over Windows. > > She discovers Ubuntu "won't work" and drops out of school. > > > > Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu couldn't get on > > the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad press for Ubuntu. > > > > Ian > > Saw this on Digg... Looks like they were actually gunning for an > anti-Dell angle, according to the editor's blog, and missed entirely. > > From what I read, she didn't know anything about her computer, and just > threw her hands up in frustration and gave up without doing even the > most cursory research. To be honest, it sounds to me like she wasn't > very motivated to go to school and used this as a convenient excuse. > Also, the article says that she couldn't run her Verizon CD. Didn't talk > about her actually connecting. Again, I think she just gave up without > trying. > > Regardless, she sounds like the kind of user that is honestly best > suited to Windows or OS X. > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 01:02:31 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:02:31 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901151640t79000c41s5d76faa02d857373-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad@mail.gmail.com> <496FD43C.7050201@utoronto.ca> <3a97ef0901151640t79000c41s5d76faa02d857373@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496FDCA7.40406@utoronto.ca> Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Jamon Camisso > wrote: >> Tyler Aviss wrote: >>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Lennart Sorensen >>> wrote: >>>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 03:22:45PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: >>>>> Looks like I might have to be on a work conference call tonight, using >>>>> Skype. >>>>> >>>>> I had Skype working when my system was using Fedora 8, but an upgrade >>>>> to F9 went badly so I moved to Ubuntu 8.10. I installed Skype recently >>>>> but couldn't get it to work with my USB headset. Now I'm looking at >>>>> have a colleague over for the conference call, so I'd like to have >>>>> some sort of speakerphone setup. >>>>> >>>>> I've googled for this (skype ubuntu speakerphone -headset) and found >>>>> this page from 2.5 years ago: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.hotvoipnews.com/blog_46.shtml >>>>> >>>>> The unit sure looks cool, but I'm not sure I can source one here in >>>>> Toronto in the next six hours .. unless someone on the list can a) >>>>> suggest a local store that might carry this unit or b) tell me that >>>>> using a bog-standard microphone plugged into my sound card should work >>>>> fine. >>>>> >>>>> Comments? >>>> Skype sucks. The protocol is disgusting from a network point of view. >>>> >>>> So far I highly encourage people to switch to something standards >>>> compliant, like sip and h.323. I use ekiga, which uses those standards, >>>> and has windows and linux software available and works with lots of >>>> other programs (including I believe microsoft netmeeting). >>>> >>>> Avoid vendor lockin by refusing to use skype. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Len Sorensen >>>> -- >>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>>> >>> I don't really want to start a flamewar here, but I've been noticing a >>> lot of responses like this lately in the list. A well-intended >>> suggestion is one thing, but a response such as "what you're using >>> sucks, switch to what I'm using" isn't very productive, and doesn't >>> really paint the group overall in a good light (these emails becoming >>> part of a longer-term archive). >>> >>> I'm not about to volunteer myself as a list-PR-overlord, but it would >>> be nice if people would perhaps consider slightly more constructive >>> way of going about things. >>> >>> People having varying preferences, and varying amounts of time to try >>> new ideas, so when they're asking for "suggestions on using X" I don't >>> think that "X sucks, dump it and use Y" is overly constructive. >> True enough, but in the case of skype, it really does suck, 110% of the >> time. Admittedly the OP did note that it would be required and some >> suggestions were given before the skype bashing began in earnest. However, >> as a part of a public record and archive, it should certainly be made known >> that, at this point in time, skype truly does suck as understood by a >> particular set of users (those using Fedora 9, Ubuntu 8.10, and USB >> headsets). >> >> Jamon > > > I actually have a USB sound-adaptor which I need to use for skype or > any other input (soundcard in my laptop is newer and the mic isn't > working with ALSA). It's actually worked OK for me, but it shows up as > just a regular ol' C-Media card for most apps anyhow. > > I was considering a USB headset for convenience though, likely one of > the logitech ones used with PS3, etc. What's broken with them? I've got a logitech as well (admittedly I use it with Ekiga). They're not broken with Skype I'm sure. But skype itself isn't nice, the protocol as Lennart pointed out, is not a friendly one. No interoperability, some serious NAT trickery involved to frustrate firewall administrators, and they abuse bandwidth of users who aren't using NAT (Skype will route traffic from other users through those un NAT'ed systems if it can). That and no one can verify the security of the protocol or see if backdoors exist.. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 02:42:29 2009 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:42:29 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <496F6431.8070800-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200901152142.29583.glayng@sympatico.ca> On Thursday 15 January 2009 11:28, Madison Kelly wrote: > Regardless, she sounds like the kind of user that is honestly best > suited to Windows or OS X. > > Madi She sounds to me like the kind of user honestly best suited to an Etch-a-Sketch. -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 02:45:07 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:45:07 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <772660.21573.qm-iJHc9IZE3hf5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <772660.21573.qm@web59503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901151845s188e8e8dtddb5282b01c5b71c@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 17:44, Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: > I skip all the mess completely by using Voip. Mine is by igonet.com. I'm > waiting for magicjack.com to come up with Canadian phone numbers. > > kind regards > Abidel http://www.themagicjack.ca/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 04:49:25 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:49:25 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901151845s188e8e8dtddb5282b01c5b71c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <772660.21573.qm@web59503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901151845s188e8e8dtddb5282b01c5b71c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <497011D5.4090806@telly.org> Michael Lauzon wrote: >> I skip all the mess completely by using Voip. Mine is by igonet.com. I'm >> waiting for magicjack.com to come up with Canadian phone numbers. >> > http://www.themagicjack.ca/ > > I've looked all over the website and have a few questions for those using (or investigating) Magicjack. - How does Magicjack call numbers outside North America? - What is the status regarding Canadian phone numbers? (Even Skype doesn't have that yet.) - And... does it work with Linux? The website seems to indicate that it installs software when first plugged into a Windows system. - What's the quality like? Not all VOIP is created equal. My experience with Vonage was horrible and I dumped it after discovering Skype. Thanks for any help. This does look interesting if answers to the above questions are promising... - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 06:06:03 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:06:03 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <1232038338.5599.79.camel-TYYFDwxCHJP5OPYHOmv4JA@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <20090115115137.6342ba57@teksavvy.com> <1232038338.5599.79.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> Message-ID: <20090116010603.58aa898d@teksavvy.com> Maureen Thornton wrote: > Thank you for calling me a halfwit! My IQ is most probably three times > yours based on your posting but I have other priorities in my life and > although you do not realize this, it does take a certain amount of > content in programming to begin using Linux. Um, what? How exactly did I call you a halfwit? Unless you work for a news channel in Wisconsin, or are really named Abbie Schubert, I have no idea who you are or what you are talking about. And it takes absolutely no 'content in programming' (assuming that means 'knowledge of programming') to begin or even advance in using Linux, so again, not sure what you are talking about. Of course, you don't hesitate to throw the insults around, now do you? Doesn't bode well for that enormous IQ you boast of (your math puts it at around 435, BTW, very very impressive). -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 14:24:31 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:24:31 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <496FD43C.7050201-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad@mail.gmail.com> <496FD43C.7050201@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4970989F.1030702@telly.org> Jamon Camisso wrote: > True enough, but in the case of skype, it really does suck, 110% of > the time. According to one person's opinion. It works fine for me. I've used it to call phones in Canada from India and Egypt for 2? per minute and I've used it for truly global conference calls on a frequent basis. Its sound quality is better than any other VOIP system I've tried. And ... most importantly .. the people I want to talk to are already registered there. The communities of Wengo and Gizmo users are orders of magnitude smaller. No new skype upgrade has ever diminished my ability to use it. OTOH, upgrading to Ubuntu 8.10 from 8.04 has broken my ability to use certain microphones for *any* application. > However, as a part of a public record and archive, it should certainly > be made known that, at this point in time, skype truly does suck as > understood by a particular set of users (those using Fedora 9, Ubuntu > 8.10, and USB headsets). The "public record" (such as it is here) should note that the sample size is particularly small, and does not include those who thought that the original complaint was too baseless to bother refuting. I too prefer open source and standard-based systems. And when there's a SIP alternative that does what I need and doesn't suck more -- and heavens knows I've tried many -- I'll be happy to switch. But for now I'll gladly go on the record as saying that the latest Ubuntu platform has created more obstacles to my use of VOIP than Skype has. The hyper-complexity of ALSA is a perfect example of the open source world *still* not understanding what most people need from an operating system platform. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 15:09:48 2009 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:09:48 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <1232038091.5599.75.camel-TYYFDwxCHJP5OPYHOmv4JA@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> Message-ID: <20090116100948.c7a275de.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:48:11 -0500 Maureen Thornton wrote: > Okay, this I have heard a number of times and is why I have joined Colin > and Jon to try to educate the common mass. Usually I just lurk on this > sight and learn as much as I can but this touches me where it hurts. > > I am not a programmer nor a computer whizz or guru, I am an Executive > Assistant who normally has an IT dept. taking care of problems. This > said, I had Linux put on a machine and handed to me to try by a > programmer (those of you who know me will guess who!) I hated and loved > it! Loved it for the idea of a free system for all those who could not > and should not have to pay the Microsoft shit. Hated it 'cos you had to > know too much about computers and realized where Microsoft had jumped > way ahead with their thinking. A friend of mine has installed Fedora on his computer. His girlfriend has discovered that Open Office is not compatible with Microsoft Office. The actual problem is that her documents are formatted with page breaks, and that Open Office uses a font with different line spacing that Microsoft Word uses. If she had learned to use Microsoft Word's stylesheet, everything would work fine. The worst case is that she would have to update a table of contents. This is a training and education issue, and perhaps a strong case for WordPerfect, which actually behaves the way most people assume a word processor behaves. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 15:08:30 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:08:30 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <200901152142.29583.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <200901152142.29583.glayng@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901160708j649b3bd7v709b88104c090b89@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 9:42 PM, Gary Layng wrote: > On Thursday 15 January 2009 11:28, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Regardless, she sounds like the kind of user that is honestly best >> suited to Windows or OS X. >> >> Madi > She sounds to me like the kind of user honestly best suited to an > Etch-a-Sketch. > -- Yeah, but then she's have to run Debian :-) http://blogs.sun.com/barton808/resource/EtchCroppedSm.JPG > there's no place like 127.0.0.1 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 16:01:52 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:01:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> Message-ID: Maureen Thornton writes: > I am not a programmer nor a computer whizz or guru, I am an Executive Assistant who normally has an IT dept. taking care of problems. This said, I had Linux put on a machine and handed to me to try by a programmer (those of you who know me will guess who!) I hated and loved it! Loved it for the idea of a free system for all those who could not and should not have to pay the Microsoft shit. Hated it 'cos you had to know too much about computers and realized where Microsoft had jumped way ahead with their thinking. I usually cringe when I read things like this. While I am not exactly an amateur computer user and programmer I can't help but ask myself, have you or your friends ever tried a Mac ? Because you and your friends seem to be after plug-in-and-use-now systems. Macs are closer to that model than any Windows will ever be and you do not 'need to take it to a computer savvy guy to have it installed'. Also, comparing a standard Linux distribution with a plug-in-and-use system is not fair. For that, a bootable CD Linux would likely be much closer, assuming compatible hardware is selected in the first place. That is the closest thing one has in Linux to the plug-in-and-use model. The next step is a customized kiosk type installation that can be done for you by any Linux expert with the necessary experience. Trying to install a 'standard' Linux distribution that contains over 3000 programs and server software with a billion options, with zero previous knowledge is usually bound to lead to doom (in the sense of driver problems, unsupported devices and more - most of these can be traced to non-existent owe well-hidden hardware vendor support for Linux and can be solved by an expert). Again, if you want boot-and-play use a bootable CD Linux distribution. This may actually get you up and running (on standard hardware) much faster than any Windows install could. Peter (who is slightly biased by 12 continuous years of linux and *bsd use as desktop and development platform) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 16:22:29 2009 From: phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 11:22:29 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> Message-ID: <20090116112229.2kghiwuy1w4go0o0@easymail.pathcom.com> ----- Message from plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org --------- > I can't help but ask myself, have you or your > friends ever tried a Mac ? If various definitions of freedom -- and applications requirements -- don't get in the way, then this has been my recommendation since the origin of OS X. I like the idea that I can choose from moment to moment what level of abstraction I want to deal with. If it's simply using a program, fine. If it's detailed configuration, that's also available. Yes, I use Linux too, but if I were ever limited to one computer, I think the Mac choice would be the best way *for me* to satisfy all my computing needs to some degree. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 16:31:12 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:31:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Network ISO References: <496F4D25.6020703@tmis.ca> Message-ID: Teddy Mills writes: > I want to install 50 or so .ISOs on a server. > Create a CD that will connect to that server over the network so I can > choose a distro and then start the installation > > I was thinking of PXE, but I do not want to use PXE unless I have to. > Getting a PC to boot from PXE or from CD is about the same amount of effort. > > Is there a project that does something like this? PXE will boot any compatible image supplied by a Linux or other server. PXE is built into better network cards (from Intel etc). The open source options are etherboot and (older, supports legacy ISA cards and the like), netboot. I have used all three. PXE is the most painless option, as it is already in the boot rom of the network card (if present). Either etherboot or netboot will create a tiny image that boots from floppy or iso cdrom (you need one copy for each slave server), including a boot menu that will allow you to select what to boot, or even rom images that you can flash into each slave network card (requires network cards with flash and a lot of manual work). The menus are more elaborate than what PXE offers but not by much. If you are new to this you should practice on a server::client (2 pcs) configuration to get a feel of how it works. Fyi bootable Linux CDs like Knoppix contain a terminal server that you simply turn on and use. That will not be the fastest image server in the world but it could get you started in 15 minutes or so, without installing anything (but the images, which could live on a removable hdd on the 'server' that will boot the Knoppix image and serve as primary image server). good luck, Peter PS: imnsho, do some math wrt. the boot time, assuming a perfect 100MBps network and a reasonable number of slaves. You will be surprised ... and don't forget that network contention increases exponentially as the number of hosts increases linearly. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 16:40:44 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:40:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> <20090116112229.2kghiwuy1w4go0o0@easymail.pathcom.com> Message-ID: Phillip Mills writes: > > I can't help but ask myself, have you or your > > friends ever tried a Mac ? > > If various definitions of freedom -- and applications requirements -- > don't get in the way, then this has been my recommendation since the > origin of OS X. I like the idea that I can choose from moment to ... One more thing: Invariably discussions around this theme lead to political wars. Beyond politics, people have a simple choice: pay for an integrated product that does what they need, such as a Mac, or pay very little for a bootable Linux image on CD or DVD and live with the tiny problems that may occur, problems which may require some help from a discussion group (like this one) to sort out, or even a paid session with a professional linux expert who will actually customize a bootable distribution to perfectly suit the person's needs (and I have done this repeatedly in the past). So there are lots of choices but comparing apples with prunes (full Linux distribution install vs. crippleware vs. boot-and-use appliance style computers like Macs) is not fair, and does not serve the community (ANY community). Clueless journalists writing 4 page articles about Linux based on notes and discussions with 'experts' (some of whom are paid employees of various interested parties) is not exactly the best news source in the world, and blogs are in the same category since it has become common knowledge that bloggers can and do get paid for what they write. Remember that viral advertising works in both directions (both as a smearing campaign and as an awareness raiser). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 16:49:55 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 11:49:55 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <1232038091.5599.75.camel-TYYFDwxCHJP5OPYHOmv4JA@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> Message-ID: <4970BAB3.10403@alteeve.com> Maureen Thornton wrote: > Okay, this I have heard a number of times and is why I have joined Colin > and Jon to try to educate the common mass. Usually I just lurk on this > sight and learn as much as I can but this touches me where it hurts. > > I am not a programmer nor a computer whizz or guru, I am an Executive > Assistant who normally has an IT dept. taking care of problems. This > said, I had Linux put on a machine and handed to me to try by a > programmer (those of you who know me will guess who!) I hated and loved > it! Loved it for the idea of a free system for all those who could not > and should not have to pay the Microsoft shit. Hated it 'cos you had to > know too much about computers and realized where Microsoft had jumped > way ahead with their thinking. > > It has taken me four years to get comfortable with Linux, most of my > friends and co-workers that I turned on to Linux have done exactly what > this lady has done...given up and (fortunately had the cash) purchased > Windows, taken it so someone who understands computers and had it > installed. If you guys want to promote Linux to "everyman" make it > more user friendly for the rank that just wish to turn it on and it > works. I have had Ubunutu Installed on my Toshiba laptop in July and > I am still trying to get it up to where I want and need it! > > My two bits worth. > Maureen Hi Maureen, First, if I may ask, you seemed to have taken this thread's comments personally. I am not sure why, but if you don't mind, could you explain why? This was a reply to my comments, so allow me to elaborate. There are some people for whom computers are nothing but a tool. To those people, operating systems other than Linux are more appropriate. Perhaps I should have said that OS X would be more appropriate for her, but she obviously has a bias towards MS. The comment about her not being ready for school was because she gave up so easily. School is tough; it is designed to challenge you. She obviously was not ready to go outside her "comfort zone". Until she is, she should not look at school yet. None of this was meant as an attack in the least. Simply as my observations. Madi PS - It is worth pointing out that when you switch from something you are comfortable to something you are new to, there will be a learning curve. This is true of switching countries, languages and operating systems. They are not meant to be clones, after all. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 17:12:59 2009 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:12:59 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > I don't really want to start a flamewar here, but I've been noticing a > lot of responses like this lately in the list. A well-intended > suggestion is one thing, but a response such as "what you're using > sucks, switch to what I'm using" isn't very productive, and doesn't > really paint the group overall in a good light (these emails becoming > part of a longer-term archive). As it turned out, the Logitech USB headset I had didn't work well, but amazingly enough the Microsoft USB headset that my wife had worked flawlessly -- and I have the option of running the sound out to the speakers. So the only downside would have been that my colleague could have heard the call, but wouldn't have been able to speak. Thanks for the alternatives -- it's always good to hear options, but it's not usually pleasant to hear that the service mentioned 'sucks'. Like they say in Texas, be sure your words are soft and sweet, in case you are forced to eat them. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 17:16:19 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:16:19 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> <20090116112229.2kghiwuy1w4go0o0@easymail.pathcom.com> Message-ID: <4970C0E3.40500@telly.org> Peter wrote: > One more thing: Invariably discussions around this theme lead to political wars. > Beyond politics, people have a simple choice: pay for an integrated product that > does what they need, such as a Mac, or pay very little for a bootable Linux > image on CD or DVD and live with the tiny problems that may occur, problems > which may require some help from a discussion group (like this one) to sort out, > or even a paid session with a professional linux expert who will actually > customize a bootable distribution to perfectly suit the person's needs (and I > have done this repeatedly in the past). Maybe. Sometimes things just break, with no help in sight. The loss of use my $5 microphone when upgraded to Ubuntu 8.10 could not be helped by anyone -- not here, not in the Ubuntu Forums, not after an extensive Google search for every error message and similar scenario. This is one of those things that 'just works' under Windows -- even old versions -- but is now one of this classic dead ends that I encounter every so often. Compounding the problem is the increas in finger pointing. When using Apple there's one source of complaint. When using Windows there are two (The motherboard/chipset vendor and Microsoft. Under Linux there's the additional step of the packager/distribution -- if my current problem the fault of the soundcard maker/driver, ALSA, or Ubuntu? Granted, the over-engineering of ALSA comes in really helpful if you have many sound inputs, but is infuriating if you only have one but don't know to which slider it belongs. Slowly many of these kinds of problems have been solved -- working with scanners was once a *Huge* pain but is now quite easy -- but many still remain. I think part of the problem is from the diversity of the Linux user base. As a tinkerer's workbench it has no equal, you can get right down into the source code IF that's your inclination. It is also being installed on some of the smallest laptops, cellphones, and some of the world's fastest supercomputers. No other system offers anywhere near that broad a coverage, but that is also part of Linux's weaknesses. The superior adaptability of Linux poses a huge problem to the plug-and-play folk. > So there are lots of choices but comparing apples with prunes (full Linux distribution install vs. crippleware vs. boot-and-use appliance style computers like Macs) is not fair, and does not serve the community (ANY community). It's indeed fair in the context that there are some who believe that the current state of Linux and other FOSS is the answer to every computing problem. Stallman and the FSF have steadfastly maintained that using inferior quality free software is preferable to using better-suited proprietary work. In instances where people are driven to make (or advocate) choices based on that influence than FOSS folks had better be ready when their favourite stuff is found to not satisfy all needs as has been promised by some. > Clueless journalists writing 4 page articles about Linux based on notes and discussions with 'experts' (some of whom are paid employees of various interested parties) is not exactly the best news source in the world, So what? There are clueless journalists of all kinds, including some who over-hype Linux and open source as more (and more-polished) than it is. There are plenty of pro-Linux and anti-Microsoft points of view throughout the IT media world, just as there are Linux bashers and Microsoft defenders. And I've experienced first hand the observation that Apple fanboys put even the open sourcers to shame. If you look it's easy to find reports showing any kind of bias you like. The original article was bizarrely noteworthy because it suggested that someone quit their education because the tools wouldn't work right. I see this in the same light as those from netbook vendors who seem surprised when they install core SuSE Linux on a system targeted at first time users and wonder why the return rate is so high. The error was partly in the choice of SuSE for a beginner system but also in improperly set expectations. Personally I believe that Linux is a good choice for many people -- but not all. I would heartily recommend a Mac for those who hate computers and want a minimum of intervention between them and application-related technology tasks. They certainly pay for that comfort through less freedom and higher cost, but that's a reasonable choice to make. > and blogs are in the same category since it has become common knowledge that bloggers can and do get paid for what they write. Remember that viral advertising works in both directions (both as a smearing campaign and as an awareness raiser). > Neither Apple nor Linux have a shortage of online advocates. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 17:16:50 2009 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:16:50 -0500 Subject: Accessing Toronto Public Library's Website with Linux In-Reply-To: <1f13df280812190827u6b9857ffu7800fa2f70546d29-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280812190827u6b9857ffu7800fa2f70546d29@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Giles Orr wrote: > Recently, Matt Price posted to the Toronto Public Library weblog about > an ongoing problem with TPL's website: it's been very slow with Linux > browsers. We knew about it but didn't know why. Matt found us an > answer, I got in touch with him, and now that answer is posted to our > website. Many thanks to Matt, and to Sacha, who Matt says put him on > the right track. Thanks so much for posting this fix... its a 1000% improvement! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 17:23:32 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:23:32 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <4970BAB3.10403-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> <4970BAB3.10403@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 1/16/09, Madison Kelly wrote: [snip] > Hi Maureen, > > First, if I may ask, you seemed to have taken this thread's comments > personally. I am not sure why, but if you don't mind, could you explain why? > > This was a reply to my comments, so allow me to elaborate. There are > some people for whom computers are nothing but a tool. To those people, > operating systems other than Linux are more appropriate. Perhaps I > should have said that OS X would be more appropriate for her, but she > obviously has a bias towards MS. Well, I would rephrase that slightly, a fair number of people are interested in a (or a few) "killer application(s)". For example I attended an Asterix user group meeting a while back, and I was talking to one man there who didn't give a @#$% about Linux, on the other hand when he heard about this Linux program that would let him replace a $100,000 Nortel PBX with a $1,000 Linux box (Linux PC + special phone network cards) he was all in. It was the application that he cared about, the fact that it was running under Linux was neither here nor there as far as this guy was concerned. Like it or not though, a lot of people still see Windows as being the home to most "killer applications"... For Linux to reach the "killer application" people we need to: - Have more Linux specific killer applications (i.e.: Asterix is A (note the "a') telephone killer application, but that is a tiny market...). - Show that Linux applications can match/exceed most of the killer applications to be found on other platforms (read MS-Windows) at a far lower cost. But we must note that for most people the application(s) comes first. > The comment about her not being ready for school was because she gave > up so easily. School is tough; it is designed to challenge you. She > obviously was not ready to go outside her "comfort zone". Until she is, > she should not look at school yet. > > None of this was meant as an attack in the least. Simply as my > observations. > > Madi > > PS - It is worth pointing out that when you switch from something you > are comfortable to something you are new to, there will be a learning > curve. This is true of switching countries, languages and operating > systems. They are not meant to be clones, after all. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 17:59:05 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:59:05 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <496FD43C.7050201-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad@mail.gmail.com> <496FD43C.7050201@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4970CAE9.3040803@dinamis.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > True enough, but in the case of skype, it really does suck, 110% of the > time. Admittedly the OP did note that it would be required and some > suggestions were given before the skype bashing began in earnest. > However, as a part of a public record and archive, it should certainly > be made known that, at this point in time, skype truly does suck as > understood by a particular set of users (those using Fedora 9, Ubuntu > 8.10, and USB headsets). I use a Logitech USB headset with Skype all the time on Kubuntu Hardy without any problems, other than the usual great variance in call quality. That has nothing to do with the USB headset. I was using Skype extensively last year and when the call quality wasn't great, I'd just flip over to Gizmo. Once I found 10-10-229 , my usage of Skype and Gizmo decreased because all the places I called, Canada, U.S., Western Europe, and Australia, were all one cent per minute to landlines. That's close enough to free that bothering with VOIP or Skype wasn't worth it. Recently, 10-10-229 prices have doubled to a whopping two cents per minute to everywhere I call but within Canada. That's still cheap enough that I don't care about the highly-variable call quality on Skype and Gizmo. Nonetheless, I am looking at VOIP for other reasons other than cheaper long distance, not that I've found long distance cheaper than two cents per minute on VOIP anyway. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 18:07:57 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:07:57 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <4970CAE9.3040803-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad@mail.gmail.com> <496FD43C.7050201@utoronto.ca> <4970CAE9.3040803@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901161007m7d269d9i815b6aedf615a1b1@mail.gmail.com> On 16/01/2009, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >Once I found 10-10-229 , my > usage of Skype and Gizmo decreased because all the places I called, > Canada, U.S., Western Europe, and Australia, were all one cent per > minute to landlines. That's close enough to free that bothering with > VOIP or Skype wasn't worth it. Recently, 10-10-229 prices have doubled > to a whopping two cents per minute to everywhere I call but within > Canada. That's still cheap enough that I don't care about the > highly-variable call quality on Skype and Gizmo. Looks like it's back to 1 ?/min; according to the web site: http://www.1010229.ca/index2.php -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 18:13:00 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:13:00 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <20090116100948.c7a275de.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> <20090116100948.c7a275de.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4970CE2C.4060606@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > A friend of mine has installed Fedora on his computer. His girlfriend has discovered that Open Office is not compatible with Microsoft Office. > > The actual problem is that her documents are formatted with page breaks, and that Open Office uses a font with different line spacing that Microsoft Word uses. If she had learned to use Microsoft Word's stylesheet, everything would work fine. The worst case is that she would have to update a table of contents. > > This is a training and education issue, and perhaps a strong case for WordPerfect, which actually behaves the way most people assume a word processor behaves. > > FWIW, yesterday I was in a customer's office. She had OpenOffice 3.0 installed on her computer. Now that she's used to it, she prefers it to Microsoft Office. Apparently her IT guy suggested it. Also, MS office can now support ODF files, either through the Sun ODF plugin or the promised Office 2007 SP, which should be out soon. Sun ODF Plugin: http://www.sun.com/software/star/odf_plugin -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 18:17:32 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:17:32 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901161007m7d269d9i815b6aedf615a1b1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad@mail.gmail.com> <496FD43C.7050201@utoronto.ca> <4970CAE9.3040803@dinamis.com> <7c50d3570901161007m7d269d9i815b6aedf615a1b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4970CF3C.4030007@dinamis.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: > On 16/01/2009, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: >> Once I found 10-10-229 , my >> usage of Skype and Gizmo decreased because all the places I called, >> Canada, U.S., Western Europe, and Australia, were all one cent per >> minute to landlines. That's close enough to free that bothering with >> VOIP or Skype wasn't worth it. Recently, 10-10-229 prices have doubled >> to a whopping two cents per minute to everywhere I call but within >> Canada. That's still cheap enough that I don't care about the >> highly-variable call quality on Skype and Gizmo. > > Looks like it's back to 1 ?/min; according to the web site: > > http://www.1010229.ca/index2.php Only within Canada. Check the rates for other places, like Australia, Germany, U.K., and U.S. and you'll see that they're all two cents per minute whereas they were one last year. In fact, calls within Canada and the U.S. were free for a few months last year. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 20:06:21 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:06:21 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090116200621.GI29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 07:10:21PM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I don't really want to start a flamewar here, but I've been noticing a > lot of responses like this lately in the list. A well-intended > suggestion is one thing, but a response such as "what you're using > sucks, switch to what I'm using" isn't very productive, and doesn't > really paint the group overall in a good light (these emails becoming > part of a longer-term archive). The problems with skype are: It is closed source. It also tends to have bugs, and is very rarely updated for linux. This combines into something that is very hard to even get to work on linux in any sort of reliable way. It works for some and not others. Looking at skype from the network's point of view, it is a nightmare for an admin to deal with on their network, because it acts just like a peer to peer file sharing system. None of the standard based systems do. > I'm not about to volunteer myself as a list-PR-overlord, but it would > be nice if people would perhaps consider slightly more constructive > way of going about things. Sometimes the most contructive way is to be honest and realistic. Skype is very much a company trying to get vendor lockin on all VoIP in the world if they can get away with it, and they aren't doing it for the sake of the users. They are also doing it in a way that is bad for networks. > People having varying preferences, and varying amounts of time to try > new ideas, so when they're asking for "suggestions on using X" I don't > think that "X sucks, dump it and use Y" is overly constructive. Having had to deal with skype users, I stand by my opinion 100%. Skype should be exterminated. There are few applications I hate enough to say that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 20:09:55 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:09:55 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <4970989F.1030702-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0901151610r4ce6e5b0y789afcd9f517b2ad@mail.gmail.com> <496FD43C.7050201@utoronto.ca> <4970989F.1030702@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090116200955.GJ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 09:24:31AM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > According to one person's opinion. It works fine for me. I've used it to > call phones in Canada from India and Egypt for 2?? per minute and I've > used it for truly global conference calls on a frequent basis. Its sound > quality is better than any other VOIP system I've tried. And ... most > importantly .. the people I want to talk to are already registered > there. The communities of Wengo and Gizmo users are orders of magnitude > smaller. It doesn't matter that it works. It is still an awful design. Many other programs (with a lot less propaganda and advertizing) work much better. > No new skype upgrade has ever diminished my ability to use it. OTOH, > upgrading to Ubuntu 8.10 from 8.04 has broken my ability to use certain > microphones for *any* application. ALSA can be a pain, and some distributions seem to jump on the latest sound daemon bandwagon a bit too often (artsd was annoying and broke stuff, esd was annoying and broke stuff, I am sure pulseaudio is going to do the same). > I too prefer open source and standard-based systems. And when there's a > SIP alternative that does what I need and doesn't suck more -- and > heavens knows I've tried many -- I'll be happy to switch. But for now > I'll gladly go on the record as saying that the latest Ubuntu platform > has created more obstacles to my use of VOIP than Skype has. The > hyper-complexity of ALSA is a perfect example of the open source world > *still* not understanding what most people need from an operating system > platform. So far I use ekiga which is sip based and works very well. Simple to use, likes the usb headsets that people seem to have issues with, works with webcams just fine. Has a nice windows version that is easy to install too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 20:14:33 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:14:33 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090116201433.GK29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 03:48:28PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: > Possibly. That's not my concern right now -- the conference call is on > Skype, so if I want to take part, a Skype-ing I will go. :) Yeah I am not surprised. Few people are willing to tell other people they have made a bad choice. I have never used skype and never will. > Ekiga (formerly known as GnomeMeeting) looks interesting, and I'll try > it out. Thanks for the suggestion. You can even get a free sip id at ekiga.net. And there are companies that provide sip to land line interfaces which you can subscribe to and ekiga supports that too. So anything skype does, it does too, except you get to choose your sip provide and sip to land line provider as you wish. And you don't do selfish things to the network either. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 22:29:12 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:29:12 -0500 Subject: Don't care about "Unfortunate Media Coverage" - was Re:Re: Re: : Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Peter wrote: > Phillip Mills writes: >> > I can't help but ask myself, have you or your >> > friends ever tried a Mac ? >> >> If various definitions of freedom -- and applications requirements -- >> don't get in the way, then this has been my recommendation since the >> origin of OS X. I like the idea that I can choose from moment to > ... > > One more thing: Invariably discussions around this theme lead to political wars. It has been fascinating to see MacOS emerge as an option that people that otherwise tend to favor Linux frequently point at as a suggested option for the "support challenged" (or what *is* the politically correct way to refer to a "luser" these days??? ) There *is* something very pointedly political there; historically, it was Tom Christiansen's quote that got heavily used: "Windows was created to keep stupid people away from UNIX." When MacOS grabbed UNIX to become its underpinnings, that led to a mighty curious change. Even though Apple has been (and continues to be) a mighty proprietary player, and even though Steve Jobs is one of the few folks in computing of comparable "control freakness" to Bill Gates, MacOS has poked a big hole in the use of Christiansen's quote. > Beyond politics, people have a simple choice: pay for an integrated product that > does what they need, such as a Mac, or pay very little for a bootable Linux > image on CD or DVD and live with the tiny problems that may occur, problems > which may require some help from a discussion group (like this one) to sort out, > or even a paid session with a professional linux expert who will actually > customize a bootable distribution to perfectly suit the person's needs (and I > have done this repeatedly in the past). So there are lots of choices but > comparing apples with prunes (full Linux distribution install vs. crippleware > vs. boot-and-use appliance style computers like Macs) is not fair, and does not > serve the community (ANY community). There's a very valid issue here: There are numerous metrics available to evaluate the merits of varying flavours of Linux and other relevant OSes. For my purposes, Debian has fit well with my own personal "metrics." The following list is a tad dated, but is still pretty accurate in terms of "broad strokes" in describing things about Debian that are good. It misses the matter of governance (e.g. - Debian is a project with a constitution, which is not a "software feature", but rather a *political* feature, which has a lot of implications), but is pretty useful: http://www.infodrom.org/Debian/doc/advantages.html For Ubuntu, one could create an analagous list consisting of many, but not all, of the same items, and add some items, too, and get a list that would in fact be materially different, thereby expressing how it is useful for a somewhat different set of potential and actual users than Debian. There's enough in common that many users of Debian would also find that Ubuntu matches their needs fairly well, but enough differences that it should be unsurprising that both projects continue unabated. It would be interesting to see analagous lists for other distributions of Linux and other OSes, notably: - Fedora - Red Hat's commercial distributions - SuSE - Centos - FreeBSD - MacOS-X The differing sets of purposes of the respective sets of producers of these various systems means that the mixes are sure to vary. I'm quite comfortable with the notion that not everyone's goal is to "support all people." The following, deployed almost ten years ago, is entertaining, a bit insulting, but despite having a bit of Tom-Christiansen-style unfriendliness, has a very valid point... http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/1999/03/msg02288.html The abstract and introduction: ------set phasers to cut here ------- Letter to Debian about Friendliness =================================== Executive Summary ================= 1. Stupid Users are Bad. 2. Stupid Users are Bad for Debian. therefore: 3. Stupid Users should be ignored. Introduction ============ I'm writing this letter to the Debian community in what is undoubtedly not a very warm view but one of my stronger opinions about the Linux community. My first installation of Debian was a migration from Slackware, synchronized with a fellow slacker (vermont-vLP2nKBMwiY at public.gmane.org), and was incited by a third coworker (donr-vLP2nKBMwiY at public.gmane.org). To be quite frank, the installation blew goats. No if's and's or but's. It was difficult, and I loved it that way. After getting over the enormous and difficult mountain called installation, I stood atop its peak and looked down at a beautiful, green valley where the goats frolicked and the hackers played. It was a promiseland of customization. Those packages which were trivial and not worth maintaining were done by a single person. Instead of 1000 hackers worrying about whether their installation of 'less', or 'as86', or 'grep' was the latest, one hacker worried about it on behalf of the rest. This was a wonderful place after the dreadfully satisfying land of slacking. Many people still complain that Debian is difficult, if not impossible, to install and I poo on them. If they can't persevere the mountain, they should not enjoy the fruits of the valley beyond it. ------set phasers to cut here ------- Now, I think this fellow makes some "unfriendly points" that go beyond what I'd go along with. He suggests that no attempt should be made to make a "newbie-friendly Linux", and I actually don't have a problem with that. There are things that MacOS makes "trivial" which Linux *can't*, by nature of some of the design choices. Evan recently mentioned ALSA configuration as being troublesome, and while there's a point to agree on, in that ALSA is a pain to *everyone*, knowledgeable or not, there is a contrast to be made with (say) MacOS. Apple has a simplifying assumption that they make by virtue of them picking what hardware you'll run their OS on. They have *complete* access, at design time, to all the hardware that will be using their OS, and Linux has a much bigger challenge in that for any given piece of hardware (aside from virtually standard things that come on EVERY motherboard, irrespective of manufacturer), it is quite likely that MOST kernel/driver writers do not have access to that piece of hardware. Each sound chipset is different, and people have this weird expectation of getting uniform behaviour for sound on ANY chipset. Trying to coalesce the varying sound features into a single API is nontrivial, and ALSA is definitely nontrivial :-). I'm not quite sure what to suggest for the "naive, unsupported-by-smart-people" would-be user of Linux. a) Tom Christiansen would point them to Windows, but Windows has gotten increasingly awful in various ways, so I'm not sure that's a good recommendation still. b) I'm quite sure I wouldn't recommend Debian to Maureen, and that's not intended as any sort of insult, no not in the slightest. It wasn't meant to be suitable to novices, and while some descriptions of that unsuitability are a tad unfriendly, I don't think it's fair to assume it to be a suitable choice. Debian fills an extremely meaningful niche both politically and technically, and the growth of more "newbie-friendly" derivatives makes it irrelevant whether or not Debian is itself "newbie-friendly." Debian can "offer support for free"; there is a crucial difference in that there are enough obstacles between would-be users and support that: a) Only those that *are* able to cope with it being a relatively "difficult, complex, cryptic, command line driven, undocumented, labyrinth of an OS as it's *nix predecessors" (in the words of Pablo Averbuj), and b) Only those that are able to figure out the culture of how to deal with the community of other Debian users can do so. As a result... c) Those that made it through those two narrow passages are likely sufficiently technically knowledgeable that helping them is likely to be helpful to that same community. But this particular support will NOT be of much use to "novice users." c) Ubuntu tries to do more "newbie-friendly" packaging, which seems a fine thing to me. I think there's a support mistake there, somewhere; my suspicion is that if there were meaningful *paid* service offerings for Ubuntu, that might make it really materially more suitable for the technically unsophisticated that really need to have a human being to help. Note that having human help would mean that a "well supported Ubuntu" would need to cost hundreds of dollars, probably per year. I don't think that naive computer users can live without having that sort of "support offering," and I think that when we think as hobbyists, we do a disservice to people that we ought to be pointing to *PAYING* support offerings. You can't have support for free for anyone that might come along and expect that to scale. d) MacOS is "more politically palatable" to a population of people that have a propensity to hate Microsoft than Windows, and, as I previously mentioned, has other advantages: - Since Apple determines the hardware, they can code to the hardware, avoiding a lot of headaches that attends support of "whatever wacky hardware anyone might have around" - Since Apple collected a bunch of money from you, they can afford to provide some human support - Apple Stores are readily available with human "Apple Geniuses" The Apple option costs enough that this pays for a moderate amount of human support. If people were prepared to pay $200/yr for some analagous "Ubuntu support," there might be something more "Maureen-friendly." But it's not enough for there to just be Maureen ready to pay... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Robert Orben - "To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 16 22:46:49 2009 From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen Thornton) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:46:49 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <4970BAB3.10403-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> <4970BAB3.10403@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1232146009.15109.24.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> Hi Madi, This was more to show how I understood her frustration. I am not a computer whizz, I had too many programmers around me all going in different ways (still do) and Linux for one who has been around it, is extremely frustrating. I could go on for hours about the problems I have had but that would not solve anything. Suffice to say that starting school and trying to learn Linux at the same time...........something will give! Maureen On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 11:49 -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Maureen Thornton wrote: > > Okay, this I have heard a number of times and is why I have joined Colin > > and Jon to try to educate the common mass. Usually I just lurk on this > > sight and learn as much as I can but this touches me where it hurts. > > > > I am not a programmer nor a computer whizz or guru, I am an Executive > > Assistant who normally has an IT dept. taking care of problems. This > > said, I had Linux put on a machine and handed to me to try by a > > programmer (those of you who know me will guess who!) I hated and loved > > it! Loved it for the idea of a free system for all those who could not > > and should not have to pay the Microsoft shit. Hated it 'cos you had to > > know too much about computers and realized where Microsoft had jumped > > way ahead with their thinking. > > > > It has taken me four years to get comfortable with Linux, most of my > > friends and co-workers that I turned on to Linux have done exactly what > > this lady has done...given up and (fortunately had the cash) purchased > > Windows, taken it so someone who understands computers and had it > > installed. If you guys want to promote Linux to "everyman" make it > > more user friendly for the rank that just wish to turn it on and it > > works. I have had Ubunutu Installed on my Toshiba laptop in July and > > I am still trying to get it up to where I want and need it! > > > > My two bits worth. > > Maureen > > Hi Maureen, > > First, if I may ask, you seemed to have taken this thread's comments > personally. I am not sure why, but if you don't mind, could you explain why? > > This was a reply to my comments, so allow me to elaborate. There are > some people for whom computers are nothing but a tool. To those people, > operating systems other than Linux are more appropriate. Perhaps I > should have said that OS X would be more appropriate for her, but she > obviously has a bias towards MS. > > The comment about her not being ready for school was because she gave > up so easily. School is tough; it is designed to challenge you. She > obviously was not ready to go outside her "comfort zone". Until she is, > she should not look at school yet. > > None of this was meant as an attack in the least. Simply as my > observations. > > Madi > > PS - It is worth pointing out that when you switch from something you > are comfortable to something you are new to, there will be a learning > curve. This is true of switching countries, languages and operating > systems. They are not meant to be clones, after all. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 17 02:42:11 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:42:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <772660.21573.qm@web59503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901151845s188e8e8dtddb5282b01c5b71c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <685760.11839.qm@web59514.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi Michael Wow! I should have been keeping a closer eye on the net for that web site. Thank you! Abidel ________________________________ From: Michael Lauzon To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:45:07 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 17:44, Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: > I skip all the mess completely by using Voip. Mine is by igonet.com. I'm > waiting for magicjack.com to come up with Canadian phone numbers. > > kind regards > Abidel http://www.themagicjack.ca/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 17 02:47:43 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:47:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <772660.21573.qm@web59503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901151845s188e8e8dtddb5282b01c5b71c@mail.gmail.com> <497011D5.4090806@telly.org> Message-ID: <62939.32363.qm@web59515.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello Evan As for MagicJack, I will be calling them to ask the same questions, now that I can get a Canadian number. As for Voip, I've heard similar stories about Vonage and other local services. When I got my service with Igonet, they where the cheapest at the time. They have constantly been working well for us with only one draw back. Canadian only toll free numbers can not be reached as I'm tectnically calling back to Canada. But how cares, I can call long distance numbers in North America at no addition cost. Regards! Abidel ________________________________ From: Evan Leibovitch To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:49:25 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? Michael Lauzon wrote: >> I skip all the mess completely by using Voip. Mine is by igonet.com. I'm >> waiting for magicjack.com to come up with Canadian phone numbers. >> > http://www.themagicjack.ca/ > > I've looked all over the website and have a few questions for those using (or investigating) Magicjack. - How does Magicjack call numbers outside North America? - What is the status regarding Canadian phone numbers? (Even Skype doesn't have that yet.) - And... does it work with Linux? The website seems to indicate that it installs software when first plugged into a Windows system. - What's the quality like? Not all VOIP is created equal. My experience with Vonage was horrible and I dumped it after discovering Skype. Thanks for any help. This does look interesting if answers to the above questions are promising... - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 17 02:50:36 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:50:36 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <685760.11839.qm-zQNpDt1iYmb5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <772660.21573.qm@web59503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901151845s188e8e8dtddb5282b01c5b71c@mail.gmail.com> <685760.11839.qm@web59514.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901161850v59d96924n345e2f1ffa37da86@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 21:42, Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: > Hi Michael > > Wow! I should have been keeping a closer eye on the net for that web site. > > Thank you! > Abidel You're welcome. Tech Direct (http://www.techdirectcanada.ca/) should be carrying the MagicJack soon. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 17 04:44:21 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 04:44:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> <4970BAB3.10403@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Colin McGregor writes: > > This was a reply to my comments, so allow me to elaborate. There are > > some people for whom computers are nothing but a tool. To those people, And that's exactly what they should be. Only a kernel developer, programmer, or other CS professional would be interested in the exact internals of his system. Do you need to be able to build your car to drive it ? If it would be so no-one but mr. Carl Benz would have a car. > Well, I would rephrase that slightly, a fair number of people are > interested in a (or a few) "killer application(s)". For example I More exactly, they are interested in ONE 'killer' application at any one time, mostly the one they make money with. > $100,000 Nortel PBX with a $1,000 Linux box (Linux PC + special phone > network cards) he was all in. It was the application that he cared Exactly. Normal people care about the finality of what they do. PBX, email, word processing, gaming or whatever. > Like it or not though, a lot of people still see Windows as being the > home to most "killer applications"... And it is ... think bout what happens to the data when the OS freezes or 'sanitizes' itself. Byebye data == kill. Aside: looking for 'Word' in Linux is the wrong question to ask. Looking for the office productivity software in Linux is closer. Users who are looking for Word in Linux are looking for the wrong thing in the wrong place. There is no point in 'switching' them over. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 17 21:54:42 2009 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:54:42 -0500 Subject: Undersea Fibre Optics Message-ID: <497253A2.9050204@tmis.ca> Was watching Discovery Channel. One of Tyco Telecommunications Reliant Class fleet ships, Cable ship Tyco Resolute was laying a new fibre optic cable to connect Costa Rica. Lay new cable under the sea floor and cut and splice the PAC1 undersea cable. West side connecting North to South America http://www1.alcatel-lucent.com/submarine/refs/World_Map_2007_LR.pdf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_submarine_communications_cables On a related note Google and youtube traffic to Asia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_(submarine_cable) Now thats mission critical work! Hope they make a documentary of Unity. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 17 23:42:34 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 18:42:34 -0500 Subject: openldap help Message-ID: <20090117234234.GA28605@watson-wilson.ca> Greetings, Openldap is busting my chops. I need help. I'm running debian testing. I've install slapd and ldap-utils. I've setup slapd.conf and ldap.conf (see attached). Then I attempt to add some entries: ldapadd -D "cn=admin,dc=watson-wilson,dc=ca" -W -f ldif-test SASL/DIGEST-MD5 authentication started ldap_sasl_interactive_bind_s: Invalid credentials (49) I can't understand why is wrong with the credentials. What have I missed? -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -------------- next part -------------- # This is the main slapd configuration file. See slapd.conf(5) for more # info on the configuration options. ####################################################################### # Global Directives: # Features to permit #allow bind_v2 # Schema and objectClass definitions include /etc/ldap/schema/core.schema include /etc/ldap/schema/cosine.schema include /etc/ldap/schema/nis.schema include /etc/ldap/schema/inetorgperson.schema # Where the pid file is put. The init.d script # will not stop the server if you change this. pidfile /var/run/slapd/slapd.pid # List of arguments that were passed to the server argsfile /var/run/slapd/slapd.args # Read slapd.conf(5) for possible values loglevel none # Where the dynamically loaded modules are stored modulepath /usr/lib/ldap moduleload back_hdb # The maximum number of entries that is returned for a search operation sizelimit 500 # The tool-threads parameter sets the actual amount of cpu's that is used # for indexing. tool-threads 1 ####################################################################### # Specific Backend Directives for hdb: # Backend specific directives apply to this backend until another # 'backend' directive occurs backend hdb ####################################################################### # Specific Backend Directives for 'other': # Backend specific directives apply to this backend until another # 'backend' directive occurs #backend ####################################################################### # Specific Directives for database #1, of type hdb: # Database specific directives apply to this databasse until another # 'database' directive occurs database hdb # The base of your directory in database #1 suffix "dc=watson-wilson,dc=ca" # rootdn directive for specifying a superuser on the database. This is needed # for syncrepl. rootdn "cn=admin,dc=watson-wilson,dc=ca" rootpw passwd # Where the database file are physically stored for database #1 directory "/var/lib/ldap" # The dbconfig settings are used to generate a DB_CONFIG file the first # time slapd starts. They do NOT override existing an existing DB_CONFIG # file. You should therefore change these settings in DB_CONFIG directly # or remove DB_CONFIG and restart slapd for changes to take effect. # For the Debian package we use 2MB as default but be sure to update this # value if you have plenty of RAM dbconfig set_cachesize 0 2097152 0 # Sven Hartge reported that he had to set this value incredibly high # to get slapd running at all. See http://bugs.debian.org/303057 for more # information. # Number of objects that can be locked at the same time. dbconfig set_lk_max_objects 1500 # Number of locks (both requested and granted) dbconfig set_lk_max_locks 1500 # Number of lockers dbconfig set_lk_max_lockers 1500 # Indexing options for database #1 index objectClass eq # Save the time that the entry gets modified, for database #1 lastmod on # Checkpoint the BerkeleyDB database periodically in case of system # failure and to speed slapd shutdown. checkpoint 512 30 # Where to store the replica logs for database #1 # replogfile /var/lib/ldap/replog # The userPassword by default can be changed # by the entry owning it if they are authenticated. # Others should not be able to see it, except the # admin entry below # These access lines apply to database #1 only access to attrs=userPassword,shadowLastChange by dn="cn=admin,dc=watson-wilson,dc=ca" write by anonymous auth by self write by * none # Ensure read access to the base for things like # supportedSASLMechanisms. Without this you may # have problems with SASL not knowing what # mechanisms are available and the like. # Note that this is covered by the 'access to *' # ACL below too but if you change that as people # are wont to do you'll still need this if you # want SASL (and possible other things) to work # happily. access to dn.base="" by * read # The admin dn has full write access, everyone else # can read everything. access to * by dn="cn=admin,dc=watson-wilson,dc=ca" write by * read # For Netscape Roaming support, each user gets a roaming # profile for which they have write access to #access to dn=".*,ou=Roaming,o=morsnet" # by dn="cn=admin,dc=watson-wilson,dc=ca" write # by dnattr=owner write ####################################################################### # Specific Directives for database #2, of type 'other' (can be hdb too): # Database specific directives apply to this databasse until another # 'database' directive occurs #database # The base of your directory for database #2 #suffix "dc=debian,dc=org" -------------- next part -------------- BASE dc=watson-wilson,dc=ca URI ldap://localhost From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 18 00:58:58 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:58:58 -0500 Subject: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? In-Reply-To: <62939.32363.qm-AA3Glc/8B2v5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20090115204326.GH29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <772660.21573.qm@web59503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901151845s188e8e8dtddb5282b01c5b71c@mail.gmail.com> <497011D5.4090806@telly.org> <62939.32363.qm@web59515.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901171658m6db5917fw782d79ccb030f650@mail.gmail.com> I used to have Vonage service a few year ago. One thing I might caution is that you be somewhat wary of their terms when you sign up, especially if you're getting the hardware from them. I signed up when they were promoting their "no contract" service quite heavily. After I moved to Toronto (being in contact here being the only reason I needed a VOIP # at the time) I canceled my plan and was hit with a cancellation fee *AND* charged $170 for their $60 router (and no, it can't be returned). They also ONLY accept complaints/etc about these issues by mail to an office in the US as apparently they have no # for their complaints office (and this is a company offering "phone" services). So apparently "no contract" doesn't mean no cancellation fees, at least with Vonage, and even Visa didn't do much about it when they autocharged my CC, despite Vonage not offering up either paperwork or recording where I agreed to such terms (apparently the "it's their policy" rules apply even if you weren't supplied with said policy). I don't know if things iwith them have changed but I'd be careful to read any terms on their website AND keep a printed copy... having a $250-400 cancellation fee on a "no contract" account is enough to ruin most people's day... On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: > Hello Evan > > As for MagicJack, I will be calling them to ask the same questions, now that > I can get a Canadian number. > As for Voip, I've heard similar stories about Vonage and other local > services. When I got my service with Igonet, they where the cheapest at the > time. They have constantly been working well for us with only one draw back. > Canadian only toll free numbers can not be reached as I'm tectnically > calling back to Canada. But how cares, I can call long distance numbers in > North America at no addition cost. > > Regards! > Abidel > > > ________________________________ > From: Evan Leibovitch > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:49:25 PM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Speakerphone for Ubuntu 8.10? > > Michael Lauzon wrote: >>> I skip all the mess completely by using Voip. Mine is by igonet.com. I'm >>> waiting for magicjack.com to come up with Canadian phone numbers. >>> >> http://www.themagicjack.ca/ >> >> > I've looked all over the website and have a few questions for those using > (or investigating) Magicjack. > > - How does Magicjack call numbers outside North America? > > - What is the status regarding Canadian phone numbers? (Even Skype doesn't > have that yet.) > > - And... does it work with Linux? The website seems to indicate that it > installs software when first plugged into a Windows system. > > - What's the quality like? Not all VOIP is created equal. My experience with > Vonage was horrible and I dumped it after discovering Skype. > > Thanks for any help. This does look interesting if answers to the above > questions are promising... > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > ________________________________ > > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar : Search from anywhere on the web and bookmark your > favourite sites. Download it now! -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 18 01:57:14 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:57:14 -0500 Subject: Anatomy of misdirection Message-ID: Here's a pretty interesting analysis of a "Windows Win" that documents fairly nicely how someone who wants to mislead can "prove" that they won, if they look at things sufficiently sideways. http://blogs.zdnet.com/Murphy/?p=1346 -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Diogenes - "What I like to drink most is wine that belongs to others." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 18 03:56:18 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:56:18 -0500 Subject: Anatomy of misdirection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4972A862.6010903@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > Here's a pretty interesting analysis of a "Windows Win" that documents > fairly nicely how someone who wants to mislead can "prove" that they > won, if they look at things sufficiently sideways. > > http://blogs.zdnet.com/Murphy/?p=1346 > That Paul Murphy is so full of it, I can't read his articles. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 18 07:43:55 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 02:43:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <4970C0E3.40500-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> <20090116112229.2kghiwuy1w4go0o0@easymail.pathcom.com> <4970C0E3.40500@telly.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Jan 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Personally I believe that Linux is a good choice for many people -- but not I agree. To me the key is choice. Users need to have choice. A technological monoculture will only help the vendor of the monoculture. Good post Evan. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 18 07:57:53 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 02:57:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> <4970BAB3.10403@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Jan 2009, Peter wrote: > Colin McGregor writes: >>> This was a reply to my comments, so allow me to elaborate. There are >>> some people for whom computers are nothing but a tool. To those people, > > And that's exactly what they should be. Only a kernel developer, programmer, or That's spot on. The first thing I say about computers is that they are tools. It's why people use them, why I get paid to support them and even why I find them interesting (a desire to make them better tools). Comparing cars and computers can yield a lot of insights. The automative industry is decades older than the computer industry. For the first few decades car owners _were_ more heavily involved in the management of their vehicles. Even as recently as the 1970s backyard car maintenance was common. More advanced (and computer maintained) engines have rendered this infeasible for many. In addition environmental regulation has meant that some potential engine optimisations are actually illegal. The computer industry is still young and perhaps we expect to much sometimes. In 40 or 50 years I will expect computers with much higher levels of reliability (in both h/w & s/w) with a far more intuitive interface. In the mean time I'll work towards a future based on open standards where open source features prominantly. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 18 18:47:05 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:47:05 -0500 Subject: OSM bits... Message-ID: Recently there was a discussion going on the Toronto Linux user group list about about which GPS to get (with Open Street Map stuff in mind). Likewise outside the meeting proper at the last Unix Unanimous meeting one of the people mentioned he was interested in getting into Open Street Map but didn't have a GPS. This of course all misses a key point, for a lot of Open Street Map contributions, you don't need a GPS, and it is becoming less critical to have a GPS. Already much of Toronto has been mapped. Much of the mapping came off aerial photos, so one has a street grid without street names. Just printing off a map of an area which doesn't have street names, then going, collecting the names off road signs, then entering those names would be a great help. Further, there is a lot of room for additions, like where are the houses of worship, or schools, or fast food places, or arts centres or ... in an area. Toronto's downtown core is fairly well covered already, but as you get away from the core the room for improvement increases... A few months ago a deal was reached between the Canadian government and the Open Street Map people. The agreements gives OSM access to / permission to use the government's GeoBase geographic database. This weekend is the first test import of that data, for the moment just the town of Fort McMurray, Alberta. Still, in the not too distant future all the streets known to the federal government will be visible in Open Street Map. Problems, well, there are areas where the GeoBase is known to be incomplete. For example, GeoBase has streets, roads etc. for Ontario, it does not have street names. Street names is information that will need to be collected and entered. Likewise all the amenities will need to be entered. A lot of work still to be done...much of which will not required a GPS. There will still be some data were a GPS will be important, like, hiking trails, but these will be the exception not the rule, soon for Canada. Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 19 04:52:25 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:52:25 -0500 Subject: [u-u] OSM bits... In-Reply-To: <20090118204011.W26075-Ja3L+HSX0kI@public.gmane.org> References: <20090118204011.W26075@vex.net> Message-ID: On 1/18/09, Doug Lee wrote: > On Sun, 18 Jan 2009, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Recently there was a discussion going on the Toronto Linux user group >> list about about which GPS to get (with Open Street Map stuff in >> mind). Likewise outside the meeting proper at the last Unix Unanimous >> meeting one of the people mentioned he was interested in getting into >> Open Street Map but didn't have a GPS. >> >> This of course all misses a key point, for a lot of Open Street Map >> contributions, you don't need a GPS, and it is becoming less critical >> to have a GPS. >> >> Already much of Toronto has been mapped. Much of the mapping came off >> aerial photos, so one has a street grid without street names. Just >> printing off a map of an area which doesn't have street names, then >> going, collecting the names off road signs, then entering those names >> would be a great help. Further, there is a lot of room for additions, >> like where are the houses of worship, or schools, or fast food places, >> or arts centres or ... in an area. Toronto's downtown core is fairly >> well covered already, but as you get away from the core the room for >> improvement increases... > > There is also a map with street names on the city of Toronto website as > well as Google Earth unless these are not considered authoritative or free > enough. Some parks and large public buildings such as schools are marked > too. They are not free enough is the bottom line I'm afraid. Open Street Map needs to depend on sources where there are no copyright restrictions. So, data from sources like the US Census Bureau, who offered their "Tiger" database data to OSM are fine, the people who collected the data can offer it without issue. The problem comes in when a data source has not given permission, then there could be problems. Beyond that, we want a map that is more authoritative than the proprietary maps :-) . Seriously, the way the proprietary map makers catch copiers is to drop in deliberate errors on their map. Start mapping and yes you will start seeing errors in proprietary maps... Bottom line is that the amateur map makers can do better than the proprietary map makers. Some examples of where the amateurs can do better is being better able to deal with on the ground changes. Last fall we had the renaming of Dominion stores to Metro stores, with Open Street Map those changes showed up within 2 weeks... I have family living in Perth ON, and I was there in Sept., saw a small new housing development, with a road one could not dive on being built. I was back in Perth at Christmas, and a road that didn't exist 6 months ago is now in Open Street Map. OSM can deal with changes faster than the proprietary maps. > Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 19 05:03:47 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 00:03:47 -0500 Subject: Strange keyboard/mouse behaviour Message-ID: <497409B3.3050501@telly.org> I've never ever come across this one before. Since upgrading to Kubuntu 8.10 (and using the nVidea binary driver that comes with it), I've been having some very strange things happen to the input systems; - If I press the shift key to type something, sometimes, the shift is sticky (as if I pressed caps-lock); sometimes I need to repeatedly press the caps-lock key (or sometimes the shift key) to 'unstick' things. This is not consistent repeatable, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't. - Sometimes when I want to highlight a line of something (a specific email in Thunderbird, a file in Dolphin, etc.) when I click on a file it highlights multiple entries even though I only clicked one line. It's as if I'm pressing shift-click even though I'm not pressing anything on the keyboard. Obviously the two are related; the input is reporting that I'm pressing shift when I'm not. I've tried different keyboard layouts without any effect. Is this something in software, or is my keyboard (a very good 15 year old Fujitsu model with a tactile feedback I can't easily find anymore) starting to die on me? I'm right now disinclined to think hardware failure because things were working fine before the upgrade. I just don't know where to start diagnosing this. Any suggestions are appreciated. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 19 05:05:42 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 00:05:42 -0500 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Ten_Great_=E2=80=9CTux=E2=80=9D_the_Linux_Penguin_Crafts?= Message-ID: <7c50d3570901182105x25aaa2d9nd86649d8caf9d2c2@mail.gmail.com> Has anyone seen this?: http://geekcrafts.com/ten-great-tux-the-linux-penguin-crafts-goodies/ -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 19 17:57:26 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:57:26 -0500 Subject: Strange keyboard/mouse behaviour In-Reply-To: <497409B3.3050501-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <497409B3.3050501@telly.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280901190957wabb4d55n46cf076b6d0f990b@mail.gmail.com> 2009/1/19 Evan Leibovitch : > I've never ever come across this one before. > > Since upgrading to Kubuntu 8.10 (and using the nVidea binary driver that > comes with it), I've been having some very strange things happen to the > input systems; > > - If I press the shift key to type something, sometimes, the shift is sticky > (as if I pressed caps-lock); sometimes I need to repeatedly press the > caps-lock key (or sometimes the shift key) to 'unstick' things. This is not > consistent repeatable, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't. > > - Sometimes when I want to highlight a line of something (a specific email > in Thunderbird, a file in Dolphin, etc.) when I click on a file it > highlights multiple entries even though I only clicked one line. It's as if > I'm pressing shift-click even though I'm not pressing anything on the > keyboard. > > Obviously the two are related; the input is reporting that I'm pressing > shift when I'm not. > > I've tried different keyboard layouts without any effect. Is this something > in software, or is my keyboard (a very good 15 year old Fujitsu model with a > tactile feedback I can't easily find anymore) starting to die on me? > > I'm right now disinclined to think hardware failure because things were > working fine before the upgrade. I just don't know where to start diagnosing > this. Any suggestions are appreciated. Sorry I can't address this quite as directly as you'd hoped, but here's my suggestion (freely given and worth every penny): While the timing is suspicious, it _does_sound like hardware failure. I would suggest eliminating hardware failure as a possibility first. With the machine off, plug in a different keyboard and mouse (unplug the old ones). Use these for a while and see what happens. If you continue to have stuff sticking, you can say for sure the problem _isn't_ hardware. Others may have better ideas. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erebus59-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 19 21:13:12 2009 From: erebus59-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Erebus) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:13:12 -0500 Subject: Linux Meeting - Mississagua In-Reply-To: <492E070A.1050205-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <000f01c94f0f$74b87840$5e2968c0$@com> <492C7F63.9060704@gmail.com> <240049.42689.qm@web53512.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <492E070A.1050205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4974ECE8.6060601@gmail.com> Mark Tuesday January 20th at 7:00-ish at Mulligan's Pub in Mississauga for our next Linux in Mississauga get-together. Hope to see you all there. Frank in Mississauga (I sent an e-mail to Mulligan's to ask for a table in the back to be set aside for us) erebus59-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From erebus59-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 19 21:33:40 2009 From: erebus59-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Erebus) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:33:40 -0500 Subject: Linux Meeting - Mississagua In-Reply-To: <4974ECE8.6060601-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <000f01c94f0f$74b87840$5e2968c0$@com> <492C7F63.9060704@gmail.com> <240049.42689.qm@web53512.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <492E070A.1050205@gmail.com> <4974ECE8.6060601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4974F1B4.9080207@gmail.com> One quick correction - just got a note back from Mulligan's and we'll be in the front end of their room (the back room is booked for a big party). Frank (a.k.a. Erebus) erebus59-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > Mark Tuesday January 20th at 7:00-ish at Mulligan's Pub in Mississauga > for our next Linux in Mississauga get-together. > > Hope to see you all there. > > Frank in Mississauga > (I sent an e-mail to Mulligan's to ask for a table in the back to be > set aside for us) > erebus59-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 19 21:57:16 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:57:16 -0500 Subject: Linux Meeting - Mississagua In-Reply-To: <4974F1B4.9080207-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <000f01c94f0f$74b87840$5e2968c0$@com> <492C7F63.9060704@gmail.com> <240049.42689.qm@web53512.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <492E070A.1050205@gmail.com> <4974ECE8.6060601@gmail.com> <4974F1B4.9080207@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 1/19/09, Erebus wrote: > One quick correction - just got a note back from Mulligan's and we'll be > in the front end of their room (the back room is booked for a big party). > > Frank (a.k.a. Erebus) > erebus59 at gmail.com >> Mark Tuesday January 20th at 7:00-ish at Mulligan's Pub in Mississauga >> for our next Linux in Mississauga get-together. >> >> Hope to see you all there. I assume you mean : Mulligan's Pub & Grill, 2458 Dundas Street West, Mississauga, ON L5K 1R8, Canada? - (905) 855-7584? For those of us who don't spend much time in Mississauga, and don't know the city well, street addresses do help :-) . Colin McGregor >> Frank in Mississauga >> (I sent an e-mail to Mulligan's to ask for a table in the back to be >> set aside for us) >> erebus59 at gmail.com From erebus59-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 19 22:14:42 2009 From: erebus59-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Erebus) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:14:42 -0500 Subject: Linux Meeting - Mississagua In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c94f0f$74b87840$5e2968c0$@com> <492C7F63.9060704@gmail.com> <240049.42689.qm@web53512.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <492E070A.1050205@gmail.com> <4974ECE8.6060601@gmail.com> <4974F1B4.9080207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4974FB52.3090003@gmail.com> You are quite correct - that is the one. The pub either has (or will have shortly) wifi available (I know they were working on it). Frank > I assume you mean : Mulligan's Pub & Grill, 2458 Dundas Street West, > Mississauga, ON L5K 1R8, Canada? - (905) 855-7584? > > For those of us who don't spend much time in Mississauga, and don't > know the city well, street addresses do help :-) . > > Colin McGregor > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 19 22:41:05 2009 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:41:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: How do I change my email address? Message-ID: <60840.192.30.202.21.1232404865.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> I want to change my email address receiving your messages from: (that is, JEMcInto-/1W4w4lpZbC4i+6oyCt0ag at public.gmane.org>) to: (that is, JEMListT-azQ+K1WMaxU at public.gmane.org) Does the following work ? > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 19 22:59:15 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:59:15 -0500 Subject: How do I change my email address? In-Reply-To: <60840.192.30.202.21.1232404865.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <60840.192.30.202.21.1232404865.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <497505C3.9090607@gmail.com> idirect.ca ... oh.. I worked there at that shitty place. But that was a decade ago. Make @google.com. They required recommendation in the past but now probably they do not. zb. jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org wrote: > I want to change my email address receiving your messages from: > (that is, JEMcInto-/1W4w4lpZbC4i+6oyCt0ag at public.gmane.org>) > to: > (that is, JEMListT-azQ+K1WMaxU at public.gmane.org) > > Does the following work ? > > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 19 23:07:27 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:07:27 -0800 Subject: How do I change my email address? In-Reply-To: <60840.192.30.202.21.1232404865.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <60840.192.30.202.21.1232404865.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420901191507j124cab49g1fa3e6a5f4046c0@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 2:41 PM, wrote: > I want to change my email address receiving your messages from: > (that is, JEMcInto-/1W4w4lpZbC4i+6oyCt0ag at public.gmane.org>) > to: > (that is, JEMListT-azQ+K1WMaxU at public.gmane.org) > > Does the following work ? It should. Just unsubscribe your currently-subscribed address, and subscribe your new address. You might want to subscribe first and unsubscribe second, once you know the new address is working properly. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 19 23:29:04 2009 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:29:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: How do I change my email address? In-Reply-To: <60840.192.30.202.21.1232404865.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <60840.192.30.202.21.1232404865.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <50125.192.30.202.21.1232407744.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> I want to change my email address receiving your messages from: (that is, JEMcInto-/1W4w4lpZbC4i+6oyCt0ag at public.gmane.org>) to: (that is, JEMListT-azQ+K1WMaxU at public.gmane.org) The following does not work. How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Jim McIntosh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 20 04:46:06 2009 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:46:06 -0500 Subject: [OT] Any opionions on Power Shell? Message-ID: <497510BE.16213.31DB1F@sciguy.vex.net> Hello I have recently discovered that, as early as 2006, M$ Windows decided to give up the ghost and implement a UNIX-emulating shell called power shell for the purpose of "serious" system administration. Scripting is surprisingly BASH-like, commands exist like ls, rm, mv, and so on. ps gives a process status; and syntax like foreach ($i in 1 .. 5) {echo $($i*8)} is actually supported. Anyone tried this shell? Any comments on it? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 20 05:03:51 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:03:51 -0500 Subject: [OT] Any opionions on Power Shell? In-Reply-To: <497510BE.16213.31DB1F-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <497510BE.16213.31DB1F@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <20090120050351.GA21599@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:46:06PM -0500, Paul King wrote: >I have recently discovered that, as early as 2006, M$ Windows decided to give >up the ghost and implement a UNIX-emulating shell called power shell for the >purpose of "serious" system administration. --snip-- >Anyone tried this shell? Any comments on it? I have not spent any real time with it, because (thankfully) I no longer have to make a Windows machine do any real work. That said, I did a lot of reading as it was being developed under the name Monad, and I did some testing when it was still in beta. It came into being because systems administrators cannot do anything complex to hundreds or thousands of machines under their care with a GUI - it is just ludicrous. Microsoft needed to support a server farm/cloud/datacentre play that was actually maintainable, and everyone they talked to told them that that needed to be a shell. The basic functionality is very BASH-like, but the real value is in the hooks built into the major OS features and the native servers - specifically OS configuration, Exchange, IIS and MSSQL automation/adminstration. What makes me deeply ill is the syntax for these hooks - hugely long, CamelCased, impossible to memorize strings that essentially demand that you develop in Visual Studio. If I had to make Windows do anything more complicated than boot I'd be using it, but it is not, IIRC, installed in the non-server versions of Windows. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 20 05:32:10 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:32:10 -0500 Subject: [OT] Any opionions on Power Shell? In-Reply-To: <497510BE.16213.31DB1F-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <497510BE.16213.31DB1F@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:46 PM, Paul King wrote: > Hello > > I have recently discovered that, as early as 2006, M$ Windows decided to give > up the ghost and implement a UNIX-emulating shell called power shell for the > purpose of "serious" system administration. > > Scripting is surprisingly BASH-like, commands exist like ls, rm, mv, and so on. > ps gives a process status; and syntax like > > foreach ($i in 1 .. 5) {echo $($i*8)} > > is actually supported. > > Anyone tried this shell? Any comments on it? Apparently it has all the syntax of Bash *and* zsh, so you can do whatever's good *or* heinous about them. They seem to be really proud about the way that it's much much more strongly typed such that everything's treated as an object. Notably, the "Unix" view is that everything's just a bag of byte, and you are just piping streams of data from one process to another. Instead of that, PowerShell streams are structured streams of .NET objects, so that you normally need to write scripts to be aware of what .NET objects they are receiving/transmitting. Seems like a giant memorization task to me, of trying to figure out what objects and methods you're manipulating. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Joan Rivers - "Forty for you, sixty for me. And equal partners we will be." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 20 10:08:20 2009 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 05:08:20 -0500 Subject: [OT] Any opionions on Power Shell? In-Reply-To: <20090120050351.GA21599-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <497510BE.16213.31DB1F@sciguy.vex.net>, <20090120050351.GA21599@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <49755C44.26265.158DE50@sciguy.vex.net> Date sent: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:03:51 -0500 From: William O'Higgins Witteman > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:46:06PM -0500, Paul King wrote: > > >I have recently discovered that, as early as 2006, M$ Windows decided to give > >up the ghost and implement a UNIX-emulating shell called power shell for the > >purpose of "serious" system administration. > > --snip-- > > >Anyone tried this shell? Any comments on it? > --snip-- > It came into being because systems administrators cannot do anything > complex to hundreds or thousands of machines under their care with a GUI > - it is just ludicrous. Microsoft needed to support a server > farm/cloud/datacentre play that was actually maintainable, and everyone > they talked to told them that that needed to be a shell. > So, they're finding this out for the first time?! :-) I am imagining that if they had to do serious server administration in their Redmond head office, they must have been running Unix on their servers. --snip-- > If I had to make Windows do anything more complicated than boot I'd be > using it, but it is not, IIRC, installed in the non-server versions of > Windows. It comes as "optional" for MS Server System 2008 (on CD), and it is available for download in the 32 and 64-bit versions of XP and for Vista. I am playing with it on my copy of XP. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 20 16:34:02 2009 From: gnicol-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:34:02 -0500 Subject: How do I change my email address? In-Reply-To: <60840.192.30.202.21.1232404865.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <60840.192.30.202.21.1232404865.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <4975FCFA.6040709@primus.ca> Jim McIntosh wrote: > I want to change my email address receiving [TLUG] messages > from: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org to: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org > > Does the following work ? > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists Frequently (and right now) it does not. The TLUG list runs Majordomo version 1.94.5 software. You can accomplish what you want to do via email. You can interact with Majordomo by sending it commands in the *BODY* of email messages addressed to Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Do *NOT* put commands in the SUBJECT LINE; Majordomo does not process commands in the subject line. Send an email from your NEW address: FROM: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org TO: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org SUBJECT: MESSAGE BODY: subscribe tlug end If your new address is valid and reachable, you will automatically receive two replies: FROM: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org TO: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org SUBJECT: Majordomo results MESSAGE BODY: Your request ... must be authenticated. If you don't receive that reply, the problem is at your end. FROM: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org TO: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org SUBJECT: Confirmation for subscribe tlug MESSAGE BODY: ...send the following command to Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org auth (hex-code) subscribe tlug jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Follow those instructions by sending another email: FROM: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org TO: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org SUBJECT: MESSAGE BODY: auth (hex-code) subscribe tlug jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org end You will automatically receive two replies: FROM: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org TO: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org SUBJECT: Majordomo results MESSAGE BODY: Succeeded. FROM: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org TO: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org SUBJECT: Welcome to tlug MESSAGE BODY: Welcome to the tlug mailing list! Please save this message for future reference. Do it! THEN, send the following message to the TLUG list: FROM: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org TO: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org SUBJECT: Re: [TLUG]: How do I change my email address? MESSAGE BODY: So far, so good. My new address is subscribed. Wait for that message to be received at your OLD address. When it arrives, send an email from your OLD address: FROM: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org TO: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org SUBJECT: MESSAGE BODY: unsubscribe tlug end HTH . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 20 18:01:20 2009 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:01:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: How do I change my email address? In-Reply-To: <4975FCFA.6040709-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <60840.192.30.202.21.1232404865.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <4975FCFA.6040709@primus.ca> Message-ID: <64931.192.30.202.21.1232474480.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > Jim McIntosh wrote: > > > I want to change my email address receiving [TLUG] messages > > from: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org to: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org > > > > Does the following work ? > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > Frequently (and right now) it does not. > > The TLUG list runs Majordomo version 1.94.5 software. > You can accomplish what you want to do via email. > > You can interact with Majordomo by sending it commands in > the *BODY* of email messages addressed to Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Do *NOT* put commands in the SUBJECT LINE; Majordomo does not > process commands in the subject line. > > Send an email from your NEW address: > > FROM: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org > TO: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > SUBJECT: > MESSAGE BODY: subscribe tlug > end > > If your new address is valid and reachable, you will > automatically receive two replies: > > FROM: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > TO: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org > SUBJECT: Majordomo results > MESSAGE BODY: Your request ... must be authenticated. > > If you don't receive that reply, the problem is at your end. > > FROM: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > TO: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org > SUBJECT: Confirmation for subscribe tlug > MESSAGE BODY: ...send the following command to Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > auth (hex-code) subscribe tlug jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org > > Follow those instructions by sending another email: > > FROM: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org > TO: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > SUBJECT: > MESSAGE BODY: auth (hex-code) subscribe tlug jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org > end > > You will automatically receive two replies: > > FROM: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > TO: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org > SUBJECT: Majordomo results > MESSAGE BODY: Succeeded. > > FROM: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > TO: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org > SUBJECT: Welcome to tlug > MESSAGE BODY: Welcome to the tlug mailing list! > Please save this message for future reference. > > Do it! THEN, send the following message to the TLUG list: > > FROM: jemlistt-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org > TO: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > SUBJECT: Re: [TLUG]: How do I change my email address? > MESSAGE BODY: So far, so good. My new address is subscribed. > > Wait for that message to be received at your OLD address. > When it arrives, send an email from your OLD address: > > FROM: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org > TO: Majordomo-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > SUBJECT: > MESSAGE BODY: unsubscribe tlug > end > > HTH > > . > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 21 05:19:26 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:19:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: (OT) Cameras in low light References: <20081218115234.0e11a824@teksavvy.com> <494A83EC.5050604@rogers.com> <494A8814.6040404@utoronto.ca> <494A8A04.9000708@rogers.com> <20081218192117.GX5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <494BDE1A.3000003@utoronto.ca> <20090105154833.GC29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen writes: > NO, it certainly is NOT all in the glass. The lens is very important, > but a sensor with 2 or 3 times the surface area will receive more light > and _should_ be able to handle lower light conditions. There is > apparently also difference in sensor technology (CMOS, CCD). fwiw sensor pixel storage capacity (dark pixel) has been measured in a few (10-100) electrons for quite a few years now. There are no easy shortcuts to improve that. 10 electrons in a pixel well + Heisenberg means a certain guaranteed noise no matter what one does. So the 'glass' is very important, but, counter-intuitively, the best lenses for low light are those with *few* elements, and not the super duper zoom lenses sold with DSLRs. Keep in mind that even large telescopes (refractors) have only 3 or 4 lenses in the light path. A modern zoom lens has in excess of 8 and sometimes 12-14 lens elements. At every air/glass interface light is lost, in despite of antireflex coatings. Occam's razor works perfectly here too. From the light transmission point of view a super duper zoom is likely under 50% efficient, maybe more, where a single thin lens can pass 95-98% of the incident light. Simple = best bang/buck. Then with low light one uses a large aperture and long exposure, with the result that non-static objects are unsharp, and static objects are only sharp in the narrow range set by the depth of field of a wide open aperture (just a few cm at best anywhere closer than infinity). So there are no shortcuts really. My current favorite is essentially a cheap pinhole lens (well not really, but fixed focus 3.8mm lens with fixed aperture at f/8 or so). Makes for great photos as long as one does not enlarge them afterwards. Oh, and don't get me started about using autofocus in the dark (did that multiple flash red af led scare everyone off yet, so they are blinking and turning away, or are they waiting for the preflash to comb their hair). So, dark = simple lens, no flash, good sensor, and don't expect miracles, because they are few and far between. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 21 17:08:12 2009 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:08:12 -0500 Subject: [OT] Any opionions on Power Shell? In-Reply-To: <20090120050351.GA21599-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <497510BE.16213.31DB1F@sciguy.vex.net> <20090120050351.GA21599@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <048801c97bea$d837d070$88a77150$@com> >If I had to make Windows do anything more complicated than boot I'd be ?>using it, but it is not, IIRC, installed in the non-server versions of >Windows. It can be installed on Client OSes also. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 21 22:23:47 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:23:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Notorious fact about Canadian Internet users ? Message-ID: I feel that some people exaggerate just a little bit sometimes: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20090102&mode=classic Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 22 05:40:01 2009 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:40:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <1232038091.5599.75.camel-TYYFDwxCHJP5OPYHOmv4JA@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> <496F6431.8070800@alteeve.com> <1232038091.5599.75.camel@bliss.mt.ss.org> Message-ID: | From: Maureen Thornton | Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:48:11 -0500 | It has taken me four years to get comfortable with Linux, most of my friends and co-workers that | I turned on to Linux have done exactly what this lady has done...given up and (fortunately had | the cash) purchased Windows, taken it so someone who understands computers and had it | installed. Thanks for being brave enough to post this. I appologize for any adverse reaction. I've been using computers for over a third of a century so I may not good at seeing problems that newcomers encounter. I find it surprising that it would take four years to get comfortable with Linux. I switched my 90 year old father from Windows XP to Ubuntu without major issues. It really depends on what applications you need and want. | If you guys want to promote Linux to "everyman" make it more user | friendly for the rank that just wish to turn it on and it works. That isn't clear enough, at least to me, to know what you are thinking about. Could you be more explicit? | I have had Ubunutu Installed on my Toshiba laptop in July and I am | still trying to get it up to where I want and need it! Could you be more explicit? Linux is better and better on laptops, but it isn't perfect. Laptop hardware often has odd or proprietary features. The manufacturer will create drivers etc. so that the MS Windows version they ship works with their hardware. Few manufacturers do that for Linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 22 20:01:24 2009 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:01:24 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up Message-ID: I have a problem with my Dad's computer - it won't power on, and it wasn't experiencing any problems preceding this failure. It has an Antec 450W power supply and a Asus K8N motherboard. I logged off and powered down - "shutdown -h now" - my Dad's linux box. A few minutes later when I pushed the power button... nothing. The Antec power supply has a on/off switch on the back...I tried turning it off and let it sit for several minutes... turned it back on and noted that the little green power light on the motherboard lit up and the LED lights on the keyboard briefly flashed on/off... but it still won't power on. In descending order I have tried the following steps to restore power without success: - turn power supply off... let sit... turn back on... repeat - turn power supply off... unplug power cord from computer... re-plug and turn back on - disconnect power cord from UPS and plug directly into wall - remove CMOS battery from board... re-install - replace CMOS battery with new battery - reset CMOS jumper - remove and re-seat the video card and RAM - check the connection between the power button and board No luck... The board is getting power and the keyboard flashes on/off when power is switched on/off but it will not power up. My folks live north of Toronto and before I return to the city and pickup a replacement power supply... Any suggestions of what else I might try to get this box going again? Again... this computer wasn't experiencing any problems before it was powered off. Thanks for any help...Daniel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 22 20:11:54 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:11:54 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090122201153.GL29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 03:01:24PM -0500, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > I have a problem with my Dad's computer - it won't power on, and it > wasn't experiencing any problems preceding this failure. It has an > Antec 450W power supply and a Asus K8N motherboard. > > I logged off and powered down - "shutdown -h now" - my Dad's linux > box. A few minutes later when I pushed the power button... nothing. > The Antec power supply has a on/off switch on the back...I tried > turning it off and let it sit for several minutes... turned it back on > and noted that the little green power light on the motherboard lit up > and the LED lights on the keyboard briefly flashed on/off... but it > still won't power on. > > In descending order I have tried the following steps to restore power > without success: > > - turn power supply off... let sit... turn back on... repeat > > - turn power supply off... unplug power cord from computer... re-plug > and turn back on > > - disconnect power cord from UPS and plug directly into wall > > - remove CMOS battery from board... re-install > > - replace CMOS battery with new battery > > - reset CMOS jumper > > - remove and re-seat the video card and RAM > > - check the connection between the power button and board > > No luck... The board is getting power and the keyboard flashes on/off > when power is switched on/off but it will not power up. My folks live > north of Toronto and before I return to the city and pickup a > replacement power supply... Any suggestions of what else I might try > to get this box going again? Again... this computer wasn't > experiencing any problems before it was powered off. Well a power supply tester is handy (and cheap). I have had power supplies provide 5Vsb but nothing else, whihc means green light on the board, but never turns on. Could also be the cpu of course. Also you can try using ajumper instead of the case power switch on the main board in case the switch is broken. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 22 20:21:41 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:21:41 -0800 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7ac602420901221221x66097343uaabfc235de350bc9@mail.gmail.com> I can't help with debugging suggestions, besides trying a known-good spare power supply to verify the problem is with the PS. I do find it a bit strange, though, that my Antec 450W PS just went, and I think I have an Asus K8N motherboard, too. I managed to get a 600W replacement for $70 at Frys, though, so I'm back up and running. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 22 20:28:51 2009 From: phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:28:51 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: <7ac602420901221221x66097343uaabfc235de350bc9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901221221x66097343uaabfc235de350bc9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090122152851.jbp5tknggwoswgk0@easymail.pathcom.com> ----- Message from ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org --------- > I do find it a bit strange, though, that my Antec 450W PS just went, > and I think I have an Asus K8N motherboard, too. And I have a Sonata II (450W) that's so flaky that I don't dare turn it off until I'm in a position to have it fixed. Mine is power switch, *I believe*; some combinations of toggling the rocker switch on the supply and the front panel button cause it to come on, but not a predictable sequence. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 22 20:41:30 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:41:30 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4978D9FA.4010901@alteeve.com> Unplug everything from the PSU except say an optical drive (or an old hard drive you don't care about). This is because the PSU needs a load. Next, find pin 13 on the main header; This is usually the sole green wire, often a smaller gage then the rest. Short this to ground. Now flip the switch on the back of the PSU to connect the mains and see if it powers up. If it does, your problem is not the PSU. If it doesn't, the PSU is dead. Pin 13 is the Power Good Line, this is normally shorted to ground by the system board/CPU when the initial ripple in line voltage has settled to protect the rest of the devices from damage. Hence why you don't want anything sensitive plugged in while doing this test. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 22 20:54:29 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:54:29 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: <4978D9FA.4010901-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4978D9FA.4010901@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4978DD05.7090707@alteeve.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Unplug everything from the PSU except say an optical drive (or an old > hard drive you don't care about). This is because the PSU needs a load. > Next, find pin 13 on the main header; This is usually the sole green > wire, often a smaller gage then the rest. Short this to ground. Now flip > the switch on the back of the PSU to connect the mains and see if it > powers up. If it does, your problem is not the PSU. If it doesn't, the > PSU is dead. > > Pin 13 is the Power Good Line, this is normally shorted to ground by the > system board/CPU when the initial ripple in line voltage has settled to > protect the rest of the devices from damage. Hence why you don't want > anything sensitive plugged in while doing this test. > > Madi Looks like I meant pin 14. :( http://pinouts.ru/Power/atxpower_pinout.shtml Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 22 21:42:28 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:42:28 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: <4978D9FA.4010901-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4978D9FA.4010901@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090122214228.GM29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 03:41:30PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Unplug everything from the PSU except say an optical drive (or an old > hard drive you don't care about). This is because the PSU needs a load. > Next, find pin 13 on the main header; This is usually the sole green > wire, often a smaller gage then the rest. Short this to ground. Now flip > the switch on the back of the PSU to connect the mains and see if it > powers up. If it does, your problem is not the PSU. If it doesn't, the > PSU is dead. > > Pin 13 is the Power Good Line, this is normally shorted to ground by the > system board/CPU when the initial ripple in line voltage has settled to > protect the rest of the devices from damage. Hence why you don't want > anything sensitive plugged in while doing this test. Pin 13 is ground. Pin 14 is PS-ON. Shorting PS-ON to ground makes an ATX power supply turn on. If it is not shorted to ground it turns off. So shorting pin 13 to 14 should make it be on. Power-OK is pin 8. Don't mess with that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 22 22:10:00 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:10:00 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: <20090122214228.GM29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4978D9FA.4010901@alteeve.com> <20090122214228.GM29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4978EEB8.3060804@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 03:41:30PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Unplug everything from the PSU except say an optical drive (or an old >> hard drive you don't care about). This is because the PSU needs a load. >> Next, find pin 13 on the main header; This is usually the sole green >> wire, often a smaller gage then the rest. Short this to ground. Now flip >> the switch on the back of the PSU to connect the mains and see if it >> powers up. If it does, your problem is not the PSU. If it doesn't, the >> PSU is dead. >> >> Pin 13 is the Power Good Line, this is normally shorted to ground by the >> system board/CPU when the initial ripple in line voltage has settled to >> protect the rest of the devices from damage. Hence why you don't want >> anything sensitive plugged in while doing this test. > > Pin 13 is ground. Pin 14 is PS-ON. Shorting PS-ON to ground makes an > ATX power supply turn on. If it is not shorted to ground it turns off. > > So shorting pin 13 to 14 should make it be on. > > Power-OK is pin 8. Don't mess with that. Dammit, I knew I shouldn't have posted this while being so tired. Sorry Daniel. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 01:33:04 2009 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:33:04 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: <4978EEB8.3060804-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4978D9FA.4010901@alteeve.com> <20090122214228.GM29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4978EEB8.3060804@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Pin 13 is ground. Pin 14 is PS-ON. Shorting PS-ON to ground makes an >> ATX power supply turn on. If it is not shorted to ground it turns off. >> >> So shorting pin 13 to 14 should make it be on. >> >> Power-OK is pin 8. Don't mess with that. > > Dammit, I knew I shouldn't have posted this while being so tired. Sorry > Daniel. That's okay Madison... I don't even know how to short a PS to ground... So no harm done. :-) Bookmarked http://pinouts.ru/Power/atxpower_pinout.shtml for future reference... Thanks! Thanks for the replies. I just returned to checking out the machine... and this time it actually started up! But it wouldn't post... So turned off and back on and it started up again and this time I go into the BIOS. Reset the time and watched it reboot and... no post. Reboot and no post but the CAPS lock and scroll key LEDs blink... Perhaps its taking issue with the PS2 keyboard for some reason. Turn off and back on again... Now back to where things started with the machine not turning on at all. I will bring another known-good PSU as suggested and some keyboards and mice over from my stash and see if that makes a difference. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 02:32:03 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:32:03 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: <4978DD05.7090707-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4978D9FA.4010901@alteeve.com> <4978DD05.7090707@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <49792C23.1020905@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Unplug everything from the PSU except say an optical drive (or an old >> hard drive you don't care about). This is because the PSU needs a >> load. Next, find pin 13 on the main header; This is usually the sole >> green wire, often a smaller gage then the rest. Short this to ground. >> Now flip the switch on the back of the PSU to connect the mains and >> see if it powers up. If it does, your problem is not the PSU. If it >> doesn't, the PSU is dead. >> >> Pin 13 is the Power Good Line, this is normally shorted to ground by >> the system board/CPU when the initial ripple in line voltage has >> settled to protect the rest of the devices from damage. Hence why you >> don't want anything sensitive plugged in while doing this test. >> >> Madi > > Looks like I meant pin 14. :( > > http://pinouts.ru/Power/atxpower_pinout.shtml Yeah, grounding a ground lead usually doesn't accomplish much. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 05:35:51 2009 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:35:51 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: References: <4978D9FA.4010901@alteeve.com> <20090122214228.GM29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4978EEB8.3060804@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> Pin 13 is ground. Pin 14 is PS-ON. Shorting PS-ON to ground makes an >>> ATX power supply turn on. If it is not shorted to ground it turns off. >>> >>> So shorting pin 13 to 14 should make it be on. >>> >>> Power-OK is pin 8. Don't mess with that. >> >> Dammit, I knew I shouldn't have posted this while being so tired. Sorry >> Daniel. > > That's okay Madison... I don't even know how to short a PS to > ground... So no harm done. :-) > > Bookmarked http://pinouts.ru/Power/atxpower_pinout.shtml for future > reference... Thanks! > > Thanks for the replies. I just returned to checking out the machine... > and this time it actually started up! But it wouldn't post... So > turned off and back on and it started up again and this time I go into > the BIOS. Reset the time and watched it reboot and... no post. Reboot > and no post but the CAPS lock and scroll key LEDs blink... Perhaps its > taking issue with the PS2 keyboard for some reason. > > Turn off and back on again... Now back to where things started with > the machine not turning on at all. > > I will bring another known-good PSU as suggested and some keyboards > and mice over from my stash and see if that makes a difference. > Seriously strange... the computer is currently back up and working again. But it responds differently every time I hit the power button. I disconnected all the peripherals as suggested... Then reconnected the LCD, keyboard, and hard drive. Turn on the power. Sometimes it gets to BIOS screen and stops... the other time there is hard drive activity but no LCD image. Or it doesn't power on at all. Second last attempt I got into Grub and managed to boot into single-user mode. I checked in /var/log/messages but didn't notice any red flag problems... rebooted sucessfully and went into normal multi-user mode and now its currently up-and-running. Puzzling... Don't know where the problem lies. I am going to keep it running for now until I get some replacement parts handy on standby if it bails out again on me. Thanks again for the help! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 10:12:47 2009 From: edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (edward chin) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:12:47 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8369b0fa0901230212y7c9860f3s208feec4d0f5f715@mail.gmail.com> I had similar problems with my box as my Antec power supply was failing. I replaced the power supply with one from a problem free box and it solved the problem. Then, I got a new supply for the problem free box. (no sense in wasting time with moving power supplies back and forth - saves time on testing the supplies, too) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 10:38:12 2009 From: edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (edward chin) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:38:12 -0500 Subject: Unfortunate Ubuntu media coverage In-Reply-To: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420901150822l5da21babk2cb093abef3c1a28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8369b0fa0901230238j5a231f87g31cd5d4882ca9e83@mail.gmail.com> If you compare this with the number of times I've heard Windows "won't work"... I still get calls (almost weekly) about Windows problems, even though I've made it clear to friends and associates I no longer service MS. On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Ian Petersen wrote: > This link came through an internal mailing list at work today: > http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184 > > Summary: Lady wants to go back to school, so buys a computer from > Dell. The sales guy encourages her to choose Ubuntu over Windows. > She discovers Ubuntu "won't work" and drops out of school. > > Sounds like user error to me (she claimed that Ubuntu couldn't get on > the net with Verizon), but it's still probably bad press for Ubuntu. > > Ian > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 14:29:41 2009 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:29:41 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: <8369b0fa0901230212y7c9860f3s208feec4d0f5f715-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <8369b0fa0901230212y7c9860f3s208feec4d0f5f715@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 5:12 AM, edward chin wrote: > I had similar problems with my box as my > Antec power supply was failing. I replaced > the power supply with one from a problem > free box and it solved the problem. > Then, I got a new supply for the problem > free box. (no sense in wasting time with > moving power supplies back and forth - > saves time on testing the supplies, too) That is what I am going to do... Bring up the PSU from my own box and install it and see if things improve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 15:28:31 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:28:31 -0500 Subject: RMS - Copyright vs. Community - Canadian Tour Message-ID: <99a6c38f0901230728h7c818aanbe3a034edf706ede@mail.gmail.com> From: http://www.fsf.org/events/rms-speeches.html (Thanks to J. P. for pointing it out!) 2009-01-29 | The Free Software Movement Waterloo, Canada. University of Waterloo. Hagey Hall Theatre of the Humanities, University of Waterloo, 200 University Avenue West. Richard Stallman will speak about the Free Software Movement, which campaigns for freedom so that computer users can cooperate to control their own computing activities. The Free Software Movement developed the GNU operating system, often erroneously referred to as Linux, specifically to establish these freedoms. This talk will be accessible to all audience and the public is encouraged to attend. Admission is free. 2009-02-02 | Copyright vs. Community Toronto, Ontario, Canada. room 1160, Bahen Center, 40 St. George Street. Copyright developed in the age of the printing press, and was designed to fit with the system of centralized copying imposed by the printing press. But the copyright system does not fit well with computer networks, and only draconian punishments can enforce it. The global corporations that profit from copyright are lobbying for draconian punishments, and to increase their copyright powers, while suppressing public access to technology. But if we seriously hope to serve the only legitimate purpose of copyright--to promote progress, for the benefit of the public--then we must make changes in the other direction. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 17:35:09 2009 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:35:09 -0500 Subject: OSM bits... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> On January 18, 2009, Colin McGregor wrote: > > Already much of Toronto has been mapped. Much of the mapping came off > aerial photos, so one has a street grid without street names. Just > printing off a map of an area which doesn't have street names, then > going, collecting the names off road signs, then entering those names > would be a great help. Further, there is a lot of room for additions, > like where are the houses of worship, or schools, or fast food places, > or arts centres or ... in an area. Toronto's downtown core is fairly > well covered already, but as you get away from the core the room for > improvement increases... When I looked at my residential area I saw that almost no streets were named and someone had entered 'fix-me' on some. I figured I would do as you suggest and add the names BUT it seems to be a difficult involved process. I haven't gone back to see if I can figure out 'HOW-TO'. So in simple language HOW-TO? Regards -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.10 KMail 1.9.9 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 18:17:18 2009 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:17:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Installing XXX.src.rpm on Mint (Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: <200901231235.09442.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <17897.192.168.20.1.1232734638.squirrel@www.nray.ca> Hey all, I've got a Planar PT1701MU touchscreen monitor that I want to use with a Mint (Ubuntu) system. Unfortunately, the manufacturer (3M) only provides the drivers in an .src.rpm file. Can anyone on this list explain to me how to install this on my Mint system? alien -k XXX.src.rpm didn't appear to work, and my googling attempts have so far proven futile. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks, Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 18:33:57 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:33:57 -0500 Subject: OSM bits... In-Reply-To: <200901231235.09442.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: On 1/23/09, Merv Curley wrote: > On January 18, 2009, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Already much of Toronto has been mapped. Much of the mapping came off >> aerial photos, so one has a street grid without street names. Just >> printing off a map of an area which doesn't have street names, then >> going, collecting the names off road signs, then entering those names >> would be a great help. Further, there is a lot of room for additions, >> like where are the houses of worship, or schools, or fast food places, >> or arts centres or ... in an area. Toronto's downtown core is fairly >> well covered already, but as you get away from the core the room for >> improvement increases... > > When I looked at my residential area I saw that almost no streets were named > and someone had entered 'fix-me' on some. I figured I would do as you > suggest and add the names BUT > it seems to be a difficult involved process. I haven't gone back to see if > I > can figure out 'HOW-TO'. So in simple language > HOW-TO? > > Regards > > -- > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can Okay, first up you will need an account on Open Street Map, it is free. For an account go to http://www.openstreetmap.org and click on "Sign Up" (look in the upper right corner of the screen). Follow the instructions on the sign up screen. Once you have an account, there are multiple ways to edit a street name, I will go with what I have found to be the simplest. Scroll and zoom in on the map until you can clearly see the area you are interested in, then click on "Edit", this will take you to a sign-in screen and once you have signed in, to the "Potlatch" on-line editor. You should at this point see the roads you were looking at earlier, plus you should see any/all aerial/sat. photos available for the area (these images are not available at very high or very low magnifications). Once at the Potlatch main screen you have three options "Start", "Play", and "Help". The "Help" option brings up a tutorial, "Play" brings up a option allowing you to play with the map, but not make any permanent changes to the map. For this I am going to assume you pick "Start, which makes real edits to the map. Move your mouse pointer to a road you are interested in putting in a name for, the pointer will change from an arrow to a hand. Click on the roadway to highlight the road. Now to add details. If the road has a name like "Fix Me", or something else incorrect, then under the map you will see a list of entries, like "highway | residential", "name | Fix Me", and so on... Click on middle of the "Fix Me" box, delete the old name and enter the correct name. For times when there is no name at all, you first need to select the road you are interested in as above. Next you need to click on the "+" sign at the bottom right of the screen, this will let you enter what aspect you are describing, the system will give you a list of some of the possible options as you type (and as you type the list will get shorter), so, type "name", and then in the second box, type the name of the street. Once you are done with editing, click on "View" to exit... Do note that the maps you see on "View" are only updated once a week, so, yes, it may take up to a week before your handywork is visible to the world. Hope this helps. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 18:39:09 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:39:09 -0500 Subject: Installing XXX.src.rpm on Mint (Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: <17897.192.168.20.1.1232734638.squirrel-CZTcpUUvSagsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> <17897.192.168.20.1.1232734638.squirrel@www.nray.ca> Message-ID: <20090123183909.GN29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > I've got a Planar PT1701MU touchscreen monitor that I want to use with a > Mint (Ubuntu) system. Unfortunately, the manufacturer (3M) only provides > the drivers in an .src.rpm file. Can anyone on this list explain to me how > to install this on my Mint system? > > alien -k XXX.src.rpm didn't appear to work, and my googling attempts have > so far proven futile. > > Any suggestions are appreciated. Use rpm to extract the source package, then look at the sources and build scritps and figure out now to build it yourself. alien only deals with binary packages. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 18:40:26 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:40:26 -0500 Subject: Installing XXX.src.rpm on Mint (Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: <17897.192.168.20.1.1232734638.squirrel-CZTcpUUvSagsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> <17897.192.168.20.1.1232734638.squirrel@www.nray.ca> Message-ID: <20090123184026.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > I've got a Planar PT1701MU touchscreen monitor that I want to use with a > Mint (Ubuntu) system. Unfortunately, the manufacturer (3M) only provides > the drivers in an .src.rpm file. Can anyone on this list explain to me how > to install this on my Mint system? > > alien -k XXX.src.rpm didn't appear to work, and my googling attempts have > so far proven futile. > > Any suggestions are appreciated. It may even be that you don't need that driver. Perhaps X already supports it. Is it USB or serial or what? What does lsusb show when it is plugged in? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 18:42:40 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:42:40 -0500 Subject: The start of a Niagara Area Linux User Group. Message-ID: I got a note from Mark Lane who is starting up a Niagara area Linux user group in St. Catharines. Mark Lane notes: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Can you let the people in the GTAlug know about our group? We are having our first meeting on February 4th at the Kelsy's in St. Catharines (7:00PM). Kelseys Restaraunt 221 Glendale Avenue St Catharines, ON L2M 0A1 Our meetup site is: http://www.meetup.com/The-Niagara-Linux-Users-Meetup/ and we have a mailinglist with Google groups. http://groups.google.com/group/niagara-area-linux-users Current email address: niagara-area-linux-users-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw at public.gmane.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Enjoy. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 18:46:12 2009 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:46:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Installing XXX.src.rpm on Mint (Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: <20090123184026.GO29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> <17897.192.168.20.1.1232734638.squirrel@www.nray.ca> <20090123184026.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <17999.192.168.20.1.1232736372.squirrel@www.nray.ca> Len, Thank you. It is a usb device. lsusb shows the device as correctly identified as Bus 001 Device 004. Stephen On Fri, January 23, 2009 13:40, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > >> I've got a Planar PT1701MU touchscreen monitor that I want to use with >> a Mint (Ubuntu) system. Unfortunately, the manufacturer (3M) only >> provides the drivers in an .src.rpm file. Can anyone on this list >> explain to me how to install this on my Mint system? >> >> alien -k XXX.src.rpm didn't appear to work, and my googling attempts >> have so far proven futile. >> >> Any suggestions are appreciated. >> > > It may even be that you don't need that driver. Perhaps X already > supports it. Is it USB or serial or what? What does lsusb show when it is > plugged in? > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 20:08:07 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:08:07 -0500 Subject: Installing XXX.src.rpm on Mint (Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: <17999.192.168.20.1.1232736372.squirrel-CZTcpUUvSagsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> <17897.192.168.20.1.1232734638.squirrel@www.nray.ca> <20090123184026.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <17999.192.168.20.1.1232736372.squirrel@www.nray.ca> Message-ID: <20090123200806.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 01:46:12PM -0500, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > Thank you. > > It is a usb device. > lsusb shows the device as correctly identified as Bus 001 Device 004. What does it show other than bus 1 and device 4 (which just says where on your system it is connected). for example: Bus 005 Device 005: ID 04fc:0c25 Sunplus Technology Co., Ltd This is a usb hd enclosure. The ID part is the interesting part. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 20:24:16 2009 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:24:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Installing XXX.src.rpm on Mint (Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: <20090123200806.GP29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> <17897.192.168.20.1.1232734638.squirrel@www.nray.ca> <20090123184026.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <17999.192.168.20.1.1232736372.squirrel@www.nray.ca> <20090123200806.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1050.192.168.20.1.1232742256.squirrel@www.nray.ca> Len, OK. ID is 0596:0001 MicroTouch Systems, Inc. Touchscreen Thanks, Stephen On Fri, January 23, 2009 15:08, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 01:46:12PM -0500, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > >> Thank you. >> >> >> It is a usb device. >> lsusb shows the device as correctly identified as Bus 001 Device 004. > > What does it show other than bus 1 and device 4 (which just says where > on your system it is connected). > > for example: Bus 005 Device 005: ID 04fc:0c25 Sunplus Technology Co., Ltd > > > This is a usb hd enclosure. The ID part is the interesting part. > > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 20:46:33 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:46:33 -0500 Subject: Installing XXX.src.rpm on Mint (Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: <1050.192.168.20.1.1232742256.squirrel-CZTcpUUvSagsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> <17897.192.168.20.1.1232734638.squirrel@www.nray.ca> <20090123184026.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <17999.192.168.20.1.1232736372.squirrel@www.nray.ca> <20090123200806.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1050.192.168.20.1.1232742256.squirrel@www.nray.ca> Message-ID: <20090123204633.GQ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 03:24:16PM -0500, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > ID is 0596:0001 MicroTouch Systems, Inc. Touchscreen As of 2.6.22 kernel: drivers/input/touchscreen/usbtouchscreen.c: {USB_DEVICE(0x0596,0x0001), .driver_info = DEVTYPE_3M}, So it should already be supported by the usbtouchscreen driver that comes with a recent kernel. Just have to figure out how to use it with X and such. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 20:58:34 2009 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:58:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Installing XXX.src.rpm on Mint (Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: <20090123204633.GQ29176-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> <17897.192.168.20.1.1232734638.squirrel@www.nray.ca> <20090123184026.GO29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <17999.192.168.20.1.1232736372.squirrel@www.nray.ca> <20090123200806.GP29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1050.192.168.20.1.1232742256.squirrel@www.nray.ca> <20090123204633.GQ29176@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1028.192.168.20.1.1232744314.squirrel@www.nray.ca> Len, Cool. Thanks. Have a great weekend. Stephen On Fri, January 23, 2009 15:46, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 03:24:16PM -0500, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > >> ID is 0596:0001 MicroTouch Systems, Inc. Touchscreen >> > > As of 2.6.22 kernel: > > > drivers/input/touchscreen/usbtouchscreen.c: > {USB_DEVICE(0x0596,0x0001), .driver_info = DEVTYPE_3M}, > > > So it should already be supported by the usbtouchscreen driver that > comes with a recent kernel. Just have to figure out how to use it with X > and such. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 23 21:51:46 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:51:46 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: References: <8369b0fa0901230212y7c9860f3s208feec4d0f5f715@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901231351h2fcc6046i6c8bc42019656ad4@mail.gmail.com> While you've got it open, you might want to check to see if any of the capacitors are "poofy", like so: http://www.dwarfsoft.com/GameDev/blowncap.jpg I've had similar symptoms with boards having flaky caps. On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Daniel Armstrong wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 5:12 AM, edward chin wrote: >> I had similar problems with my box as my >> Antec power supply was failing. I replaced >> the power supply with one from a problem >> free box and it solved the problem. >> Then, I got a new supply for the problem >> free box. (no sense in wasting time with >> moving power supplies back and forth - >> saves time on testing the supplies, too) > > That is what I am going to do... Bring up the PSU from my own box and > install it and see if things improve. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 02:04:15 2009 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:04:15 -0500 Subject: OSM bits... In-Reply-To: References: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <200901232104.15569.mervc@eol.ca> On January 23, 2009, Colin McGregor wrote: > > Do note that the maps you see on "View" are only updated once a week, > so, yes, it may take up to a week before your handywork is visible to > the world. > > Hope this helps. > Thanks Colin. That seems easier than what I read on the website. Obviously my impressions from what I read were quite erroneous. I'll print your message and have a go. Probably easy once I have done a couple of edits. Since my street is a KM long and has a number of branch streets I assume I can name it in a couple of places? I guess the answer is somewhere in the documentation but I became discouraged quickly. I do have an account, so I was serious but got frustrated. Cheerio -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.10 KMail 1.9.9 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 02:21:55 2009 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:21:55 -0500 Subject: OSM bits... In-Reply-To: <200901232104.15569.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> <200901232104.15569.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <497A7B43.70700@gmail.com> Merv Curley wrote: > On January 23, 2009, Colin McGregor wrote: > >> Do note that the maps you see on "View" are only updated once a week, >> so, yes, it may take up to a week before your handywork is visible to >> the world. >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> > Thanks Colin. That seems easier than what I read on the website. Obviously > my impressions from what I read were quite erroneous. I'll print your > message and have a go. Probably easy once I have done a couple of edits. > > Since my street is a KM long and has a number of branch streets I assume I can > name it in a couple of places? My experience is with MapInfo data. There, every street segment can be treated as a record in database (whatever kind of database; That depands on the design of data records.). Usually, every street segment contains street name. It may contain additional information, like for instance street numbers (possibly on both sides), postal code (which can be different also on both sides). Also, street names, in principle, could be in various languages. Etc. So, it should be quite ok to assign different names to different street segments. Just a digression. I do not know openstreet. zb > I guess the answer is somewhere in the > documentation but I became discouraged quickly. I do have an account, so I > was serious but got frustrated. > > Cheerio > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 04:26:55 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:26:55 -0500 Subject: OSM bits... In-Reply-To: <200901232104.15569.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> <200901232104.15569.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: On 1/23/09, Merv Curley wrote: > On January 23, 2009, Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> Do note that the maps you see on "View" are only updated once a week, >> so, yes, it may take up to a week before your handywork is visible to >> the world. >> >> Hope this helps. >> > Thanks Colin. That seems easier than what I read on the website. Obviously > my impressions from what I read were quite erroneous. I'll print your > message and have a go. Probably easy once I have done a couple of edits. Yes, it is straight forward. Me, I am still fighting my way through some aspects of JOSM, a Java based Open Street Map off-line editor, more features than the Potlatch on-line editor, but also harder to use... > Since my street is a KM long and has a number of branch streets I assume I > can > name it in a couple of places? I guess the answer is somewhere in the > documentation but I became discouraged quickly. I do have an account, so I > was serious but got frustrated. To do what you suggest, I would cut the street into segments, and then give each segment the same name. which isn't hard to do, However unless the street was exceptionally long, like say Yonge Street I would be a bit reluctant to do this... > Cheerio > > -- > Merv Curley > Toronto, Ont. Can > > Debian Sid Linux > Desktop KDE 3.5.10 KMail 1.9.9 Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 05:12:51 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 00:12:51 -0500 Subject: The start of a Niagara Area Linux User Group. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > I got a note from Mark Lane who is starting up a Niagara area Linux > user group in St. Catharines. I added this to the wiki, indicating an additional Ontario LUG... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Emo Philips - "I was sleeping the other night, alone, thanks to the exterminator." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 15:41:21 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:41:21 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901231351h2fcc6046i6c8bc42019656ad4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <8369b0fa0901230212y7c9860f3s208feec4d0f5f715@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0901231351h2fcc6046i6c8bc42019656ad4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <497B36A1.8000607@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > While you've got it open, you might want to check to see if any of the > capacitors are "poofy", like so: > > http://www.dwarfsoft.com/GameDev/blowncap.jpg > > I've had similar symptoms with boards having flaky caps. > > Is that still a common problem? I know it was a big issue a few years back. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 16:20:45 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:20:45 -0500 Subject: Keyboard shopping In-Reply-To: <1f13df280901190957wabb4d55n46cf076b6d0f990b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <497409B3.3050501@telly.org> <1f13df280901190957wabb4d55n46cf076b6d0f990b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <497B3FDD.2080407@telly.org> Well, it looks like I will be springing (pun intended) for a new keyboard after all. I do a lot of typing, so quality means a lot. I would like to know if anyone here has experience with any of the following: - Cherry G80-3000 -- Mechanical switches, from a company known for its well-built POS keyboards - Das Keyboard -- expensive but very cool looking; uses the Cherry mechanical switches - Matias Tactile Pro -- Made in Woodbridge, high quality but expensive - Unicomp Customizer -- the modern version of the old IBM Model M keyboard legacy - Saitek Eclipse II -- one of the better non-mechanical-switch models, lights in the dark Any experiences with these -- or a recommendation for a really good typists' keyboard made not mentioned above -- are welcomed, as are any recommendations of stores in the GTA. It appears that all of the above models have to be ordered online; it would be nice to try them out. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 16:37:46 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:37:46 -0500 Subject: Keyboard shopping In-Reply-To: <497B3FDD.2080407-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <497409B3.3050501@telly.org> <1f13df280901190957wabb4d55n46cf076b6d0f990b@mail.gmail.com> <497B3FDD.2080407@telly.org> Message-ID: <497B43DA.2050208@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Well, it looks like I will be springing (pun intended) for a new > keyboard after all. > > > I do a lot of typing, so quality means a lot. I would like to know if > anyone here has experience with any of the following: > > - Cherry G80-3000 -- Mechanical switches, from a company known for its > well-built POS keyboards > Ummm... "POS" = Piece Of Sh... ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 16:43:51 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:43:51 -0500 Subject: Keyboard shopping In-Reply-To: <497B43DA.2050208-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <497409B3.3050501@telly.org> <1f13df280901190957wabb4d55n46cf076b6d0f990b@mail.gmail.com> <497B3FDD.2080407@telly.org> <497B43DA.2050208@rogers.com> Message-ID: <497B4547.1090906@telly.org> James Knott wrote: > Ummm... "POS" = Piece Of Sh... ;-) > Before the potty-mouths came along, "POS" (in IT circles at least) meant something else (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_of_sale) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 17:45:30 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:45:30 -0500 Subject: Keyboard shopping In-Reply-To: <497B3FDD.2080407-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <497409B3.3050501@telly.org> <1f13df280901190957wabb4d55n46cf076b6d0f990b@mail.gmail.com> <497B3FDD.2080407@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090124174530.GA17943@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 11:20:45AM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Well, it looks like I will be springing (pun intended) for a new > keyboard after all. > - Unicomp Customizer -- the modern version of the old IBM Model M > keyboard legacy I've got a Unicomp keyboard, and it is very, very nice. It is very crisp and positive. The people who build them are good to deal with as well - unfortunately I didn't get a Customizer. There are some key combinations/locations that are not permitted in the US 104 layout, and the Unicomp enforces that. So, if you get a standard keyboard thinking that you can remap the keys any way you like, call them first to check. Had I done so I would have had them build me a custom keyboard with my keys all over the place the way I like them. The switches and feel is outstanding though. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 18:58:42 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 13:58:42 -0500 Subject: Keyboard shopping In-Reply-To: <497B3FDD.2080407-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <497409B3.3050501@telly.org> <1f13df280901190957wabb4d55n46cf076b6d0f990b@mail.gmail.com> <497B3FDD.2080407@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090124185842.GB17359@watson-wilson.ca> Are happy hacker keyboards still available? I seem to be in the minority in preferring ergo split keyboards. Unfortunately it is hard to find them with good mechanical keys. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 19:03:02 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:03:02 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? Message-ID: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> I seem to have stumbled onto firefox's dirty little secret. There are many reports, including my own experience, of not being able to paste into firefox's search box, address box or any web form boxes. With other applications my clipboard works fine. This problem persists even when running Firefox in safe mode. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 19:27:06 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:27:06 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: <497B36A1.8000607-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <8369b0fa0901230212y7c9860f3s208feec4d0f5f715@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0901231351h2fcc6046i6c8bc42019656ad4@mail.gmail.com> <497B36A1.8000607@rogers.com> Message-ID: Hi, I hope this would not be looked at as hijacking a thread, the content are the same and I think would be of interest to who ever is following the thread. I am however not adding on assistance we have been giving to Daniel, and to be frank, all that I could suggest has been put out already. I am looking for view of a similar kind of problem I am having. I am planning to set up asterisk and did what I now regret, bought accessories from Tiger Direct and planned to assemble the thing. Looked easy at that time, but now its giving me grief. After assembly, the fans come up, the CD rom and is working, but their is no signal to the LCD monitor. Nothing, even the LED on the monitor keep flashing, indicating the monitor is unaware the computer attached to it is booting up. The VGA is on the board, so I am finding it hard to figure out what is going on. Things I have tried. I have swapped around the RAM between the two slots. That did not help. I also took the CPU out and carefully redid the assembly again with no luck, nothing is happening in the monitor. The motherboard is an A15G AM2 and a 64 bit AMD processor. I have also a couple of other peripherals, an Intel PCI network card, a SATA disk and a IDE CD rom. I am certain the peripherals has nothing to do with it as nothing changes when I pull them out from the mother board. >From this, is there any thing I have overlooked that you can point out. A little lost and embarrassed to ask such a basic stuff. Regards, William 2009/1/24 James Knott > Tyler Aviss wrote: > > While you've got it open, you might want to check to see if any of the > > capacitors are "poofy", like so: > > > > http://www.dwarfsoft.com/GameDev/blowncap.jpg > > > > I've had similar symptoms with boards having flaky caps. > > > > > > Is that still a common problem? I know it was a big issue a few years > back. > > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 19:32:43 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:32:43 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <20090124190302.GC17359-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <497B6CDB.9030203@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > I seem to have stumbled onto firefox's dirty little secret. There are > many reports, including my own experience, of not being able to paste > into firefox's search box, address box or any web form boxes. With > other applications my clipboard works fine. This problem persists even > when running Firefox in safe mode. > I checked my Mepis 8 (RC1), Mepis 7, and Mandriva 2008 boxes (all use KDE but different versions of Firefox) and couldn't duplicate your problem. Could it be a bug specific to another desktop manager? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 20:14:51 2009 From: dwarmstrong-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:14:51 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901231351h2fcc6046i6c8bc42019656ad4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <8369b0fa0901230212y7c9860f3s208feec4d0f5f715@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0901231351h2fcc6046i6c8bc42019656ad4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > While you've got it open, you might want to check to see if any of the > capacitors are "poofy", like so: > > http://www.dwarfsoft.com/GameDev/blowncap.jpg > > I've had similar symptoms with boards having flaky caps. > No poofy capacitors here I am happy to say! After replacing the PSU with the one from my own box... Everything seems to be in working order again. Powering on and off works as expected. I guess it was a flaky power supply after all... It was about 4-5 years old. Thanks again for all the help! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 20:18:24 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:18:24 -0500 Subject: Keyboard shopping In-Reply-To: <20090124185842.GB17359-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <497409B3.3050501@telly.org> <1f13df280901190957wabb4d55n46cf076b6d0f990b@mail.gmail.com> <497B3FDD.2080407@telly.org> <20090124185842.GB17359@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On 1/24/09, Neil Watson wrote: > Are happy hacker keyboards still available? I seem to be in the > minority in preferring ergo split keyboards. Unfortunately it is hard > to find them with good mechanical keys. The Happy Hacker keyboards are still available, but the company that makes them seems to be focused on the Japanese market... I have mixed feelings about the ergonomic split keyboards, I think they look painfully ugly, but I find them very comfortable to type on... Explains why I am typing this e-mail up on a Microsoft Natural Multimedia Keyboard 1.0A (which I got on sale from one of the usual College & Spadina suspects a few years ago for cheap). When it comes to keyboards, ugly, but comfortable can work for me. Much as I detest Microsoft software, they do have several hardware products that even as a a Linux/Unix guy, I can/will praise :-) . Colin McGregor > -- > Neil Watson > UNIX Consultant > http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 20:36:22 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:36:22 -0500 Subject: KDE4 users, Linux feels your pain Message-ID: <3a97ef0901241236l50f11254o708590fea0f9c24e@mail.gmail.com> I don't normally repost /. articles, but as this was a previous topic I thought I'd share. http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/24/1842218 Still, 4.2 is coming up the pipe, so hopefully we'll see more apps ported up and bugs fixed. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 20:38:06 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:38:06 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <497B6CDB.9030203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B6CDB.9030203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090124203806.GD17359@watson-wilson.ca> I'm using Openbox which is not popular enough to have drawn so much ire on the Internet regarding this bug. It even happens in Windows: http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/99609816/m/310006766931 -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 20:48:29 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:48:29 -0500 Subject: Keyboard shopping In-Reply-To: <497B4547.1090906-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <497409B3.3050501@telly.org> <1f13df280901190957wabb4d55n46cf076b6d0f990b@mail.gmail.com> <497B3FDD.2080407@telly.org> <497B43DA.2050208@rogers.com> <497B4547.1090906@telly.org> Message-ID: <497B7E9D.6030900@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Ummm... "POS" = Piece Of Sh... ;-) >> > Before the potty-mouths came along, "POS" (in IT circles at least) > meant something else (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_of_sale) > I used to work for a company that repaired those terminals. One day I saw a box marked "Defective POS". ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 20:54:57 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:54:57 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <20090124190302.GC17359-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <497B8021.8000003@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > I seem to have stumbled onto firefox's dirty little secret. There are > many reports, including my own experience, of not being able to paste > into firefox's search box, address box or any web form boxes. With > other applications my clipboard works fine. This problem persists even > when running Firefox in safe mode. > Works fine here. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 20:59:30 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:59:30 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <20090124203806.GD17359-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B6CDB.9030203@rogers.com> <20090124203806.GD17359@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <497B8132.9090308@utoronto.ca> Neil Watson wrote: > I'm using Openbox which is not popular enough to have drawn so much ire > on the Internet regarding this bug. It even happens in Windows: > http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/99609816/m/310006766931 > Try: Edit -> Preferences -> Content -> Javascript -> Advanced -> Uncheck disable or replace context menus. That can help/hinder some JS enabled forms. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 20:59:07 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:59:07 -0500 Subject: KDE4 users, Linux feels your pain In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901241236l50f11254o708590fea0f9c24e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901241236l50f11254o708590fea0f9c24e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <497B811B.8070708@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > I don't normally repost /. articles, but as this was a previous topic > I thought I'd share. > > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/24/1842218 > > > Still, 4.2 is coming up the pipe, so hopefully we'll see more apps > ported up and bugs fixed. > I have tried KDE 4 and don't like it either. I'll stick with KDE 3.5 as long as I can and look for some alternative. Gnome is not on the short list. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 21:13:34 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:13:34 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <497B8132.9090308-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B6CDB.9030203@rogers.com> <20090124203806.GD17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B8132.9090308@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20090124211334.GA18880@watson-wilson.ca> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 03:59:30PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Try: Edit -> Preferences -> Content -> Javascript -> Advanced -> Uncheck > disable or replace context menus. That can help/hinder some JS enabled > forms. No help. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 21:20:58 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:20:58 -0500 Subject: Keyboard shopping In-Reply-To: <20090124185842.GB17359-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <497409B3.3050501@telly.org> <1f13df280901190957wabb4d55n46cf076b6d0f990b@mail.gmail.com> <497B3FDD.2080407@telly.org> <20090124185842.GB17359@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > Are happy hacker keyboards still available? I seem to be in the > minority in preferring ergo split keyboards. Unfortunately it is hard > to find them with good mechanical keys. Yes, they are available, but they are rather expensive. I wound up paying an extraordinary amount for shipping when I got a new one in the fall. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html George Burns - "You can't help getting older, but you don't have to get old." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 22:00:05 2009 From: hdevalence-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Henry de Valence) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:00:05 -0500 Subject: KDE4 users, Linux feels your pain In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901241236l50f11254o708590fea0f9c24e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901241236l50f11254o708590fea0f9c24e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200901241700.05125.hdevalence@gmail.com> On Sat January 24 2009 3:36:22 pm Tyler Aviss wrote: > I don't normally repost /. articles, but as this was a previous topic > I thought I'd share. > > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/24/1842218 > > > Still, 4.2 is coming up the pipe, so hopefully we'll see more apps > ported up and bugs fixed. I'm using 4.2 right now and I'm very happy with it. YMMV, but it's improved quite a bit since 12 months ago (i.e. 4.0). Also, I found this post by Aaron Seigo (on that story) to be quite an interesting read, especially in comparison to the /. summary, which, as per usual, boils away all the nuance of what Linus *actually said* into a sensationalist headline. http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/01/choices-and-punishment.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 22:14:58 2009 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:14:58 -0500 Subject: KDE4 users, Linux feels your pain In-Reply-To: <497B811B.8070708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901241236l50f11254o708590fea0f9c24e@mail.gmail.com> <497B811B.8070708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090124171458.275ce400@teksavvy.com> James Knott wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: > > I don't normally repost /. articles, but as this was a previous topic > > I thought I'd share. > > > > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/24/1842218 > > > > > > Still, 4.2 is coming up the pipe, so hopefully we'll see more apps > > ported up and bugs fixed. > > > > I have tried KDE 4 and don't like it either. I'll stick with KDE 3.5 as > long as I can and look for some alternative. Gnome is not on the short > list. XFCE, everything you want, nothing you don't. Customizable, modular, and lots of cool bits to make things easier. -- J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 22:16:49 2009 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:16:49 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <20090124211334.GA18880-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B6CDB.9030203@rogers.com> <20090124203806.GD17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B8132.9090308@utoronto.ca> <20090124211334.GA18880@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <497B9351.6070303@sympatico.ca> I've had instances where right-click --> 'paste' didn't work, but never paid much attention to it because 'ctrl+v' worked. Have you tried that? Neil Watson wrote: > On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 03:59:30PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Try: Edit -> Preferences -> Content -> Javascript -> Advanced -> >> Uncheck disable or replace context menus. That can help/hinder some >> JS enabled forms. > > No help. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 24 22:25:42 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:25:42 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <497B9351.6070303-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B6CDB.9030203@rogers.com> <20090124203806.GD17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B8132.9090308@utoronto.ca> <20090124211334.GA18880@watson-wilson.ca> <497B9351.6070303@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20090124222542.GB18880@watson-wilson.ca> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 05:16:49PM -0500, John Moniz wrote: > I've had instances where right-click --> 'paste' didn't work, but never > paid much attention to it because 'ctrl+v' worked. Have you tried that? Ctrl-v, shft-insert user and right clicks all fail. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 25 01:37:39 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:37:39 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <20090124222542.GB18880-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B6CDB.9030203@rogers.com> <20090124203806.GD17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B8132.9090308@utoronto.ca> <20090124211334.GA18880@watson-wilson.ca> <497B9351.6070303@sympatico.ca> <20090124222542.GB18880@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0901241737y36a0fe48k3192837974607b42@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 05:16:49PM -0500, John Moniz wrote: >> >> I've had instances where right-click --> 'paste' didn't work, but never >> paid much attention to it because 'ctrl+v' worked. Have you tried that? > > Ctrl-v, shft-insert user and right clicks all fail. Most curious. Out of curiousity, what version of FF and which OS are you using? -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 25 01:46:23 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:46:23 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0901241737y36a0fe48k3192837974607b42-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B6CDB.9030203@rogers.com> <20090124203806.GD17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B8132.9090308@utoronto.ca> <20090124211334.GA18880@watson-wilson.ca> <497B9351.6070303@sympatico.ca> <20090124222542.GB18880@watson-wilson.ca> <99a6c38f0901241737y36a0fe48k3192837974607b42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090125014623.GA1626@watson-wilson.ca> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 08:37:39PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: >Most curious. Out of curiousity, what version of FF and which OS are >you using? Debian testing. Package: iceweasel Priority: optional Section: web Installed-Size: 3900 Maintainer: Eric Dorland Architecture: i386 Version: 3.0.5-1 Replaces: firefox (<< 2.0+dfsg-1), iceweasel-gnome-support (<= 3.0~b5-2), mozilla-firefox Provides: www-browser Depends: fontconfig, psmisc, procps, debianutils (>= 1.16), libc6 (>= 2.7-1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libnspr4-0d (>= 1.8.0.10), libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1), xulrunner-1.9 (>= 1.9.0.3-1) Suggests: xulrunner-1.9-gnome-support, latex-xft-fonts, xfonts-mathml, ttf-mathematica4.1, xprint, mozplugger, libkrb53 Conflicts: firefox (<< 2.0+dfsg-1), iceweasel-dom-inspector (<< 3.0~b4), mozilla-firefox (<< 1.5.dfsg-1) Filename: pool/main/i/iceweasel/iceweasel_3.0.5-1_i386.deb Size: 1131388 MD5sum: b090fad44887360bd5a25697d7722159 SHA1: ab58f2ae8ed6572c248777b3167884c6f143499d SHA256: ffefa727466deeb2a753bf2ce1b080e7b3c02e21d3df5d1782e7c68a8fcb8d51 Description: lightweight web browser based on Mozilla Iceweasel is a redesign of the Mozilla browser component, similar to Galeon, K-Meleon and Camino, but written using the XUL user interface language and designed to be lightweight and cross-platform. . This browser is based on the Firefox source-code, with minor modifications. Historically, this browser was previously known as Firebird and Phoenix. Tag: devel::interpreter, devel::lang:ecmascript, filetransfer::ftp, filetransfer::http, interface::x11, network::client, protocol::{ftp,http,ipv6,ssl}, role::program, scope::application, suite::mozilla, uitoolkit::gtk, use::browsing, use::downloading, web::browser, works-with::{image,image:raster,image:vector,text}, works-with-format::{html,jpg,plaintext,png,svg,xml,xml:rss,xml:xslt}, x11::application Task: desktop -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 25 02:35:33 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 21:35:33 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <20090125014623.GA1626-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B6CDB.9030203@rogers.com> <20090124203806.GD17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B8132.9090308@utoronto.ca> <20090124211334.GA18880@watson-wilson.ca> <497B9351.6070303@sympatico.ca> <20090124222542.GB18880@watson-wilson.ca> <99a6c38f0901241737y36a0fe48k3192837974607b42@mail.gmail.com> <20090125014623.GA1626@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0901241835y1f2aa2c8rd50242f160e21642@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 08:37:39PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> >> Most curious. Out of curiousity, what version of FF and which OS are >> you using? > > Debian testing. > Package: iceweasel > Priority: optional > Section: web > Installed-Size: 3900 > Maintainer: Eric Dorland > Architecture: i386 > Version: 3.0.5-1 > Replaces: firefox (<< 2.0+dfsg-1), iceweasel-gnome-support (<= > 3.0~b5-2), mozilla-firefox [...] I ran IceWeasel for a while (and rather enjoyed it) but don't recall this issue. I've seen something similar in IE6 under windows but that's hardly relevant here. Are you running any other browsers alongside Iceweasel? If so which ones and do they exhibit any abnormal behaviour as regards Copy & Paste functions? (Particularly interested in other FF derivatives.) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 25 02:50:34 2009 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David Christopher Chipman) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 21:50:34 -0500 Subject: [NON-TLUG-Related] Message-ID: <497BD37A.9090001@ican.net> Hi all, Does anyone in the Toronto area have a USB audio tape deck? I know you can get them from ThinkGeek, but it seems like rather a lot of money for the use I need to put one to. Since I only need one for a short while to transfer some tapes to CD to play in my folks new car, I really didn't want to have to buy one. Thanks all, -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 25 03:18:23 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:18:23 -0500 Subject: [NON-TLUG-Related] In-Reply-To: <497BD37A.9090001-rYHPKw+MWrk@public.gmane.org> References: <497BD37A.9090001@ican.net> Message-ID: On 1/24/09, David Christopher Chipman wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone in the Toronto area have a USB audio tape deck? I know you > can get them from ThinkGeek, but it seems like rather a lot of money for > the use I need to put one to. Since I only need one for a short while to > transfer some tapes to CD to play in my folks new car, I really didn't > want to have to buy one. Thanks all, > > -David Chipman I will be talking about this at NewTLUG next Tuesday, but bottom line is that a regular cassette tape Walkman can be made to work just fine in the transfer of tapes to what ever your favourite audio format is. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 25 03:34:46 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:34:46 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <20090125014623.GA1626-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B6CDB.9030203@rogers.com> <20090124203806.GD17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B8132.9090308@utoronto.ca> <20090124211334.GA18880@watson-wilson.ca> <497B9351.6070303@sympatico.ca> <20090124222542.GB18880@watson-wilson.ca> <99a6c38f0901241737y36a0fe48k3192837974607b42@mail.gmail.com> <20090125014623.GA1626@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20090125033446.GA21948@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 08:46:23PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 08:37:39PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> Most curious. Out of curiousity, what version of FF and which OS are >> you using? > > Debian testing. > Package: iceweasel Perplexing. I am unable to reproduce your error, but I am also running Debian testing and I occasionally use Openbox. I shut down my everyday WM (awesome), updated my .xinitrc, reran X and then opened Iceweasel in Openbox. Sorry, it's just working for me :-( I use left+right click to paste, but it works. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 25 03:43:52 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:43:52 -0500 Subject: Keyboard shopping In-Reply-To: <20090124185842.GB17359-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <497409B3.3050501@telly.org> <1f13df280901190957wabb4d55n46cf076b6d0f990b@mail.gmail.com> <497B3FDD.2080407@telly.org> <20090124185842.GB17359@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <497BDFF8.5010101@telly.org> Neil Watson wrote: > Are happy hacker keyboards still available? No; I checked. The arm of Fujitsu that manufactured it is officially out of the keyboard business and the HHK stopped production in 2006: http://www.pfusystems.com/hhkeyboard/hhkeyboard.html The current keyboard that I need to replace is a Fujitsu and I'm sorry they got out of the keyboard (and hard disk too, for that matter) markets. (Having said that, there are quite a few compact-format boards around, some of them with the old IBM mechanical feel: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/mightymouse1.html) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 25 04:00:48 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 23:00:48 -0500 Subject: KDE4 users, Linux feels your pain In-Reply-To: <497B811B.8070708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901241236l50f11254o708590fea0f9c24e@mail.gmail.com> <497B811B.8070708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <497BE3F0.9070200@telly.org> James Knott wrote: > I have tried KDE 4 and don't like it either. I tried it, liked it in theory, but despised the shakiness of its implementation as well as Kubuntu's haste in declaring it ready for newbie use as of 4.1. I like Dolphin better than any file manager I have ever used, and still find KDE overall better than GNOME, so I'm willing to put up with some of the grief. (FWIW, I followed the Kubuntu instructions to install the 4.2 beta and much has improved ... though much remains to be fixed. I now consider it usable though I'm waiting for Ubuntu to ship the current nVidia driver which is supposed to fix some of ITS bugs that affect KDE.) In the long term much of KDE4's success will depend on whether developers take advantage of its new facilities -- the catalog of useful widgets is still painfully small. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 25 12:56:56 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 07:56:56 -0500 Subject: [NON-TLUG-Related] In-Reply-To: <497BD37A.9090001-rYHPKw+MWrk@public.gmane.org> References: <497BD37A.9090001@ican.net> Message-ID: <497C6198.6080606@rogers.com> David Christopher Chipman wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone in the Toronto area have a USB audio tape deck? I know you > can get them from ThinkGeek, but it seems like rather a lot of money > for the use I need to put one to. Since I only need one for a short > while to transfer some tapes to CD to play in my folks new car, I > really didn't want to have to buy one. Thanks all, Why not just use regular audio connections? Cassette audio quality isn't that great to begin with. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jan 25 13:01:09 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:01:09 -0500 Subject: KDE4 users, Linux feels your pain In-Reply-To: <497BE3F0.9070200-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901241236l50f11254o708590fea0f9c24e@mail.gmail.com> <497B811B.8070708@rogers.com> <497BE3F0.9070200@telly.org> Message-ID: <497C6295.60803@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> I have tried KDE 4 and don't like it either. > I tried it, liked it in theory, but despised the shakiness of its > implementation as well as Kubuntu's haste in declaring it ready for > newbie use as of 4.1. I like Dolphin better than any file manager I > have ever used, and still find KDE overall better than GNOME, so I'm > willing to put up with some of the grief. > > (FWIW, I followed the Kubuntu instructions to install the 4.2 beta and > much has improved ... though much remains to be fixed. I now consider > it usable though I'm waiting for Ubuntu to ship the current nVidia > driver which is supposed to fix some of ITS bugs that affect KDE.) > > In the long term much of KDE4's success will depend on whether > developers take advantage of its new facilities -- the catalog of > useful widgets is still painfully small. > I use OpenSUSE and they made it the default KDE desktop, before it was ready. In 11.0, KDE 3.5 is still available. In 11.1, there's a reduced function emulation, running on KDE 4. However, there are other reasons why I've decided to stay with 11.0 for now, including Wake on LAN is broken in 11.1. There are also problems with using XDMCP from an 11.0 destop to 11.1. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 00:54:55 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:54:55 -0500 Subject: fan noise for HP ML115 Message-ID: <20090126005455.GB13594@watson-wilson.ca> Greetings, I was thinking about a new HP ML115 for my home office. I'm concerned about the noise since it's location will be under my desk. Does anyone have one of these servers? How load is it? -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 01:02:00 2009 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:02:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: OSM bits... In-Reply-To: <200901231235.09442.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200901231235.09442.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <8657.74.14.17.200.1232931720.squirrel@webmail.weait.com> Merv wrote: > On January 18, 2009, Colin McGregor wrote: > When I looked at my residential area I saw that almost no streets were > named > and someone had entered 'fix-me' on some. I figured I would do as you > suggest and add the names BUT > it seems to be a difficult involved process. I haven't gone back to see > if I > can figure out 'HOW-TO'. So in simple language > HOW-TO? A recent discussion on OSM-talk indicated that the use of name=fixme, is deprecated and considered dangerous. There are tools for mappers that will highlight unnamed roads for us. name=fixme breaks that. HowTo add a name to a street? General steps. 0) Use an unencumbered source for the name. That is, only name streets that you have confirmed with your eyes. OpenStreetMap does not want names taken from other maps. 0.5) Get an API account from here. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/new 1) Use your favorite editing tool. 2) Navigate to the area of your interest. Zoom in fairly tightly so that you are only editing a "small" area. You'll learn the right size area with experience. Large areas take too long to download. Areas that are too small mean you have to wait for another download before your next edit. 3) Select the unnamed road that you want to name. 4) Add the correct name from your personal observation in the form key: name, value: Name Street/Avenue/Road/etcetera. Please note that accepted use in OSM is to spell the road type in full. So, Road, Avenue, Street, Place, Way, Crescent, Croft, Court, rather than the shorter versions. 5) Upload your changes now, or further further editing. Some editor specific examples for JOSM and Potlatch. Browse with OpenStreetMap.org, while logged in, and zoom in to your area of interest. Note that you can shift-click drag on the map to select your rectangular area of interest. Thank you, OpenLayers. For JOSM, copy the "permalink" from the lower right corner, then see below. For Potlatch, click the edit tab to change from "browse the map" to the Potlatch editor. Read the note and choose edit (or play). The map will refresh with live data from the server. Watch the top right corner for a progress indicator. Hover over the street of interest and the pointer will change to a hand. Click the street to select it. It will be highlighted in yellow, and the current set of tags will be shown in the lower pane. Change the name=fixme tag to name=Proper Street by clicking in the text box and changing the text. If no name=fixme tag exists, use the "+" icon on the right of the tag pane to add an arbitrary tag. Edit the key to "name" and the value to "Proper Street". Potlatch uploads your changes when you select another item on the map, so click on the next street you wish to edit, and your changes are uploaded as you go. For JOSM, start JOSM, choose the download icon from the menu bar and paste the permalink for your area of interest. A progress bar will tell you when the live data download is complete. Use the select tool (second icon, left hand toolbar, or s shortcut key) to select your street of interest by clicking it once between nodes. The current tags will be shown in the properties mwnu on the right. Select the current name tag then the edit button, or use click the add button if no current name tag exists. Complete the "Change values?" dialog box and click okay to queue your edit. Edit more roads, or upload to the server using the upload icon (or ctrl-Shift-U) to send your queued changes to the server. See? Easy. Come on out to the next mapping party for some help if this wasn't crystal muddy. Best regards, Richard -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 05:38:05 2009 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:38:05 -0500 Subject: Jan 27th NewTLUG meeting: The care and feeding of portable media players under Linux (reminder) Message-ID: <497D4C3D.7000601@buynet.com> This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held Tues Jan 27th., at the IBM offices 3600 Steeles Ave E. **Important** This meeting is free and all are welcome, however, all attendees will be required to have a security badge. Badges should be prepared in advance. If you plan to attend, please send your name to Paul (off-list at ), preferably by Monday Jan 26th. ...and please be sure to return badges to the front reception at the end of the session. Thanks: to Paul for helping NewTLUG not only by arranging for a room and hosting our meetings at IBM but also with looking after the badges. Badges: please email Paul Mora to pre-register Date and Time: Tues Jan 27, 7-10pm Topic: The care and feeding of portable media players under Linux. So, you have a portable media player that plays music, shows photos, and can play videos, how do you keep that player fed with media from your Linux box? Colin McGregor will give a beginner level talk that will look at: - Ripping CDs into MP3 files. - Converting audio tapes into MP3 files - putting photos onto your player - putting videos onto your player - Where and how to get free, legal, content on-line Apr?s-meet: After the meeting some will adjourn to a local coffee shop for continued discussion and general world problem solving. Location: IBM offices 3600 Steeles Ave East, north side of Steeles at Pharmacy/Esna Park (between Victoria Park and Warden) http://maps.google.com/maps?cid=43817841,-79335686,6295209446636492376&q=IBM Directions: Meet at the front entrance well before 7:00pm (6:30 recommended) to pickup your ID badge. At about 7:00 we'll be escorted to the auditorium. Some provision will be made for anyone arriving a little late. Parking: Free parking is available in the visitor parkade from 6:00pm to 11:00pm. --- Herb Richter Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 15:22:55 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:22:55 -0500 Subject: fan noise for HP ML115 In-Reply-To: <20090126005455.GB13594-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20090126005455.GB13594@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <20090126152254.GA26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 07:54:55PM -0500, Neil Watson wrote: > I was thinking about a new HP ML115 for my home office. I'm concerned > about the noise since it's location will be under my desk. Does anyone > have one of these servers? How load is it? I found a Q&A for that model from HP and saw this one that I find hard to believe: Q4. Why do I need four memory slots? A4. Having four memory slots most likely enables systems to accommodate more total memory than a two or three slot solution. Additionally, having up to 3 open slots allows users to add memory incrementally, growing only as fast as it is necessary. Most importantly for cost-sensitive small businesses, having four slots accommodates large memory configurations without using extremely expensive high density DIMMs. For example, loading 2GB in 2 slots costs $3,000-$4,000 more than loading 2GB in four lots (2x1 GB DIMMs vs. 4x512MB DIMMs). Is HP actually claiming it costs $4000 to buy a pair of 1GB ECC dimms for their box? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 15:28:46 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:28:46 -0500 Subject: Keyboard shopping In-Reply-To: <497B3FDD.2080407-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <497409B3.3050501@telly.org> <1f13df280901190957wabb4d55n46cf076b6d0f990b@mail.gmail.com> <497B3FDD.2080407@telly.org> Message-ID: <20090126152845.GB26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 11:20:45AM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Well, it looks like I will be springing (pun intended) for a new > keyboard after all. > > > I do a lot of typing, so quality means a lot. I would like to know if > anyone here has experience with any of the following: > > - Cherry G80-3000 -- Mechanical switches, from a company known for its > well-built POS keyboards > > - Das Keyboard -- expensive but very cool looking; uses the Cherry > mechanical switches > > - Matias Tactile Pro -- Made in Woodbridge, high quality but expensive > > - Unicomp Customizer -- the modern version of the old IBM Model M > keyboard legacy > > - Saitek Eclipse II -- one of the better non-mechanical-switch models, > lights in the dark > > Any experiences with these -- or a recommendation for a really good > typists' keyboard made not mentioned above -- are welcomed, as are any > recommendations of stores in the GTA. It appears that all of the above > models have to be ordered online; it would be nice to try them out. You mean you actually like those noisy hard to type on things? I am affraid I can't help on where to get one, since they are the complete opposite of what I look for in a keyboard. I go for keytronic keyboards myself. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 15:33:28 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:33:28 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: <497B36A1.8000607-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <8369b0fa0901230212y7c9860f3s208feec4d0f5f715@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0901231351h2fcc6046i6c8bc42019656ad4@mail.gmail.com> <497B36A1.8000607@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090126153328.GC26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 10:41:21AM -0500, James Knott wrote: > Is that still a common problem? I know it was a big issue a few years back. On some cheap boards, it still can be. High quality boards should not thave that problem anymore. And it wasn't just motherboards. My dad lost a geforce 256 card about 18 months ago to that problem as far as I can tell. Worked for about 4 years and then suddenly did not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 15:38:36 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:38:36 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: References: <8369b0fa0901230212y7c9860f3s208feec4d0f5f715@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0901231351h2fcc6046i6c8bc42019656ad4@mail.gmail.com> <497B36A1.8000607@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090126153836.GD26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 02:27:06PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > I hope this would not be looked at as hijacking a thread, the content are > the same and I think would be of interest to who ever is following the > thread. I am however not adding on assistance we have been giving to Daniel, > and to be frank, all that I could suggest has been put out already. I am > looking for view of a similar kind of problem I am having. > > I am planning to set up asterisk and did what I now regret, bought > accessories from Tiger Direct and planned to assemble the thing. Looked easy > at that time, but now its giving me grief. > > After assembly, the fans come up, the CD rom and is working, but their is no > signal to the LCD monitor. Nothing, even the LED on the monitor keep > flashing, indicating the monitor is unaware the computer attached to it is > booting up. The VGA is on the board, so I am finding it hard to figure out > what is going on. > > Things I have tried. I have swapped around the RAM between the two slots. > That did not help. I also took the CPU out and carefully redid the assembly > again with no luck, nothing is happening in the monitor. > > The motherboard is an A15G AM2 and a 64 bit AMD processor. I have also a > couple of other peripherals, an Intel PCI network card, a SATA disk and a > IDE CD rom. I am certain the peripherals has nothing to do with it as > nothing changes when I pull them out from the mother board. Hmm, as far as I can tell, A15G is a PC Chips board. They are pretty much universally known to be the worst motherboard maker on the planet. They merged with ECS some years ago (ECS is also not known for being particularly high quality, but nowhere near PC Chips). > From this, is there any thing I have overlooked that you can point out. A > little lost and embarrassed to ask such a basic stuff. Well I would not be at all surprised if the board doesn't work. Of course if your board is that cheap and low quality, what are the rest of the components like? I almost never go to tiger direct, because other than carrying some decent video cards and of course asus motherboards, the vast majority of their computer parts are cheap low quality crap. So I shop at canada computers instead where I can actually get the good parts. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 18:06:43 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:06:43 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: <20090126153836.GD26063-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <8369b0fa0901230212y7c9860f3s208feec4d0f5f715@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0901231351h2fcc6046i6c8bc42019656ad4@mail.gmail.com> <497B36A1.8000607@rogers.com> <20090126153836.GD26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 1/26/09, Lennart Sorensen wrote: [snip] > I almost never go to tiger direct, because other than carrying some > decent video cards and of course asus motherboards, the vast majority of > their computer parts are cheap low quality crap. So I shop at canada > computers instead where I can actually get the good parts. Well, I find Tiger Direct to be good as a quick source of information (their website is well laid out). Also, I have bought a Silverstone home theatre style PC cases from them, EXCELLENT quality, at scary prices... In other words, when it comes time to buy stuff, I avoid Tiger Direct for commodity type products, and only look to them for speciality items... For the non-speciality stuff, a walk around College & Spadina can save a fair amount of $$ over Tiger Direct. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 18:29:04 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:29:04 -0500 Subject: computer won't power up In-Reply-To: References: <8369b0fa0901230212y7c9860f3s208feec4d0f5f715@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0901231351h2fcc6046i6c8bc42019656ad4@mail.gmail.com> <497B36A1.8000607@rogers.com> <20090126153836.GD26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20090126182904.GE26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 01:06:43PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Well, I find Tiger Direct to be good as a quick source of information > (their website is well laid out). Also, I have bought a Silverstone > home theatre style PC cases from them, EXCELLENT quality, at scary > prices... In other words, when it comes time to buy stuff, I avoid > Tiger Direct for commodity type products, and only look to them for > speciality items... > > For the non-speciality stuff, a walk around College & Spadina can save > a fair amount of $$ over Tiger Direct. Tiger direct's website offers lots of good stuff, but the stores hardly carry any of it. And yes you can find better prices too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 18:52:35 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:52:35 -0500 Subject: Obama: Scott McNealy, tell me about open source Message-ID: <497E0673.1080409@telly.org> Interesting stuff. http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/01/21/obama-administration-seeks-advice-on-benefits-of-open-source/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 20:56:56 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:56:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: astreisk(s) job ad Message-ID: Surely the compensation part must be a joke ? http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/web/1004271301.html Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 21:18:29 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:18:29 -0500 Subject: astreisk(s) job ad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Peter wrote: > Surely the compensation part must be a joke ? > > http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/web/1004271301.html If they have it down to a "takes <1h" art, then perhaps that works. If they mean "$90 per PBX user", perhaps too. Otherwise, this could easily mean "$90 per day" which seems a tad low ;-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Fred Allen - "Television is a medium because anything well done is rare." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 21:25:35 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:25:35 -0500 Subject: astreisk(s) job ad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497E2A4F.8050503@alteeve.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Peter wrote: >> Surely the compensation part must be a joke ? >> >> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/web/1004271301.html > > If they have it down to a "takes <1h" art, then perhaps that works. > > If they mean "$90 per PBX user", perhaps too. > > Otherwise, this could easily mean "$90 per day" which seems a tad low ;-). If someone is so experienced with Asterix to have installs down to 1h, then I don't think they'll be needing work of Craig's list. :P Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jan 26 21:37:46 2009 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:37:46 -0500 Subject: astreisk(s) job ad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497E2D2A.9020206@dinamis.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Peter wrote: >> Surely the compensation part must be a joke ? >> >> http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/web/1004271301.html > > If they have it down to a "takes <1h" art, then perhaps that works. > > If they mean "$90 per PBX user", perhaps too. > > Otherwise, this could easily mean "$90 per day" which seems a tad low ;-). The airfare alone from Bangalore could eat up most of that $90 :) -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3286 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 27 04:11:58 2009 From: lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Julian C. Dunn) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:11:58 +0000 Subject: fan noise for HP ML115 In-Reply-To: <20090126152254.GA26063-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20090126005455.GB13594@watson-wilson.ca> <20090126152254.GA26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1233029518.3008.3.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 10:22 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I found a Q&A for that model from HP and saw this one that I find hard > to believe: > > Q4. Why do I need four memory slots? > A4. Having four memory slots most likely enables systems to > accommodate more total memory than a two or three slot solution. > Additionally, having up to 3 open slots allows users to add memory > incrementally, growing only as fast as it is necessary. Most importantly > for cost-sensitive small businesses, having four slots accommodates > large memory configurations without using extremely expensive high > density DIMMs. For example, loading 2GB in 2 slots costs $3,000-$4,000 > more than loading 2GB in four lots (2x1 GB DIMMs vs. 4x512MB DIMMs). > > Is HP actually claiming it costs $4000 to buy a pair of 1GB ECC dimms > for their box? HP definitely charges a lot of money for their DIMMs, so I wouldn't be surprised. We've found that buying Kingston RAM would save you at least 50% if not more, but then if HP discovers that you've substituted 3rd-party RAM for their RAM, they may walk away from a service call. I liken it to the laser printer toner cartel that HP, Lexmark, and ilk engage in. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * Sorry, I'm ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian * only Web 1.0 ] [ gopher://sdf.lonestar.org/11/users/keymaker * compliant! ] [ PGP: 91B3 7A9D 683C 7C16 715F 442C 6065 D533 FDC2 05B9 ] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 27 04:59:48 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:59:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: astreisk(s) job ad References: <497E2A4F.8050503@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Madison Kelly writes: > If someone is so experienced with Asterix to have installs down to 1h, > then I don't think they'll be needing work of Craig's list. :P Actually some scripts made by me in the past get it down to a few minutes but that's for a very special case and the couple of minutes do not do justice to the days of tweaking it took to get there. The 50 loc/day coding metric may be a myth but eventually there is some truth to it. A 100 loc script that works 100% *will* take 2 days to write and debug. At dishwasher's wages $90 will pay for about half of those 2 days. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 27 11:05:31 2009 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:05:31 -0500 Subject: astreisk(s) job ad In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Peter wrote: > > Surely the compensation part must be a joke ? > > > > http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/web/1004271301.html > > If they have it down to a "takes <1h" art, then perhaps that works. > > If they mean "$90 per PBX user", perhaps too. I think the part about "most of your duties will be quite simple" maybe suggests that they have already simplified the process. > > Otherwise, this could easily mean "$90 per day" which seems a tad low ;-). > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 27 13:39:10 2009 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:39:10 -0500 Subject: Using gmail for mailing lists Message-ID: <491f66a50901270539j79b74c06td3f4766fb56c6e9f@mail.gmail.com> Some mailing lists are looking at the Sender field, not the From field. gmail always puts user-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org in the sender field. So I'm looking for a real simple ajax email client that I can send email from. I don't want a desktop solution. Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 27 14:48:44 2009 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:48:44 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0901241737y36a0fe48k3192837974607b42-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B6CDB.9030203@rogers.com> <20090124203806.GD17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B8132.9090308@utoronto.ca> <20090124211334.GA18880@watson-wilson.ca> <497B9351.6070303@sympatico.ca> <20090124222542.GB18880@watson-wilson.ca> <99a6c38f0901241737y36a0fe48k3192837974607b42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090127144844.GA2100@watson-wilson.ca> >> Ctrl-v, shft-insert user and right clicks all fail. I have discovered that a centre mouse button click will work. Alas, my laptop does not have a centre mouse button. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 27 15:28:08 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:28:08 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <20090127144844.GA2100-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B6CDB.9030203@rogers.com> <20090124203806.GD17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B8132.9090308@utoronto.ca> <20090124211334.GA18880@watson-wilson.ca> <497B9351.6070303@sympatico.ca> <20090124222542.GB18880@watson-wilson.ca> <99a6c38f0901241737y36a0fe48k3192837974607b42@mail.gmail.com> <20090127144844.GA2100@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <497F2808.2050901@rogers.com> Neil Watson wrote: > > I have discovered that a centre mouse button click will work. Alas, my > laptop does not have a centre mouse button. Usually, pressing both buttons at the same time will emulate pressing a middle button. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 27 16:21:59 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:21:59 -0500 Subject: fan noise for HP ML115 In-Reply-To: <1233029518.3008.3.camel-sd4rSCkhOeu0gumUbo5taVDdeaDYgqOw@public.gmane.org> References: <20090126005455.GB13594@watson-wilson.ca> <20090126152254.GA26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1233029518.3008.3.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Message-ID: <20090127162159.GF26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 04:11:58AM +0000, Julian C. Dunn wrote: > On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 10:22 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > I found a Q&A for that model from HP and saw this one that I find hard > > to believe: > > > > Q4. Why do I need four memory slots? > > A4. Having four memory slots most likely enables systems to > > accommodate more total memory than a two or three slot solution. > > Additionally, having up to 3 open slots allows users to add memory > > incrementally, growing only as fast as it is necessary. Most importantly > > for cost-sensitive small businesses, having four slots accommodates > > large memory configurations without using extremely expensive high > > density DIMMs. For example, loading 2GB in 2 slots costs $3,000-$4,000 > > more than loading 2GB in four lots (2x1 GB DIMMs vs. 4x512MB DIMMs). > > > > Is HP actually claiming it costs $4000 to buy a pair of 1GB ECC dimms > > for their box? > > HP definitely charges a lot of money for their DIMMs, so I wouldn't be > surprised. We've found that buying Kingston RAM would save you at least > 50% if not more, but then if HP discovers that you've substituted > 3rd-party RAM for their RAM, they may walk away from a service call. > > I liken it to the laser printer toner cartel that HP, Lexmark, and ilk > engage in. But a 1GB dimm should cost more like $25, not $2000. That's 2 orders of magnitude in difference. 100 times more, not 2 times more. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 27 16:54:58 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:54:58 -0500 Subject: firefox paste bug? In-Reply-To: <20090127144844.GA2100-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20090124190302.GC17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B6CDB.9030203@rogers.com> <20090124203806.GD17359@watson-wilson.ca> <497B8132.9090308@utoronto.ca> <20090124211334.GA18880@watson-wilson.ca> <497B9351.6070303@sympatico.ca> <20090124222542.GB18880@watson-wilson.ca> <99a6c38f0901241737y36a0fe48k3192837974607b42@mail.gmail.com> <20090127144844.GA2100@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <497F3C62.4060809@linuxcaffe.ca> Neil Watson wrote: >>> Ctrl-v, shft-insert user and right clicks all fail. > > I have discovered that a centre mouse button click will work. Alas, my > laptop does not have a centre mouse button. > you' find that hitting both buttons at the same time does the job. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 27 18:41:11 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:41:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: astreisk(s) job ad References: , <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: Paul King writes: > > If they mean "$90 per PBX user", perhaps too. > I think the part about "most of your duties will be quite simple" maybe > suggests that they have already simplified the process. Does that mean that the server will be accessible, as opposed to being buried under cables in a server rack that cannot be switched off, and that they actually know the passwords set by the last admin who left in anger, as well as have the mods log somewhere (unencrypted, that is), as well as the fxo/fxs cards makes and versions, and jumper settings ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jan 27 18:44:07 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:44:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: astreisk(s) job ad References: , <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: So, along the same lines, extrapolating: Are the salary surveys out there worth anything ? Some items do not seem to be right, like the rate for admins (one of the lowest paid jobs in IT ?! - but they do not say what kind of admin - I assume the reinstall kind, not Unix). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 28 14:50:28 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:50:28 -0500 Subject: KDE 4.2 Message-ID: <498070B4.3030900@telly.org> At last night's NewTLUG meeting, one of the side topics was the general suckage of KDE4 that is now the default version shipped with Fedora, Kubuntu and other distributions. Interesting timing. Yesterday, KDE 4.2 came out of beta. I've been using the beta for a few weeks on Kubuntu 8.10 and it seemed like a marked improvement over the early 4.1 that came with the original distribution. There were still some niggly things missing but nothing that was broken (at least IMO). Here's a review of 4.2 (using an early beta) from Ars Technica: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2008/12/hands-on-kde-4-2-beta-1.ars While 4.2 will eventually make it into the official distributions, Kubuntu users can get it using the separate KDE4.2 repository (instructions are at http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2). I hope that the new release coaxes a few people back (I too abandoned KDE for GNOME after I found the original 4.1 to be unusable, but much has been addressed). Info on Fedora 4.2 is found at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE42 - Evan PS: After Colin used Pachelbel's Canon as a media example in yesterday's presentation, I was reminded of a video, http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM , that should be heard by anyone who wants to know that dark secrets of the Canon and how it infects all modern music. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 28 16:50:55 2009 From: ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org (Ray Payne) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:50:55 -0500 Subject: Apache / Tomcat contractor References: , <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> A Message-ID: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> I'm looking for a consultant, or a company to do consulting that would be able to support apache/tomcat at our office in Mississauga and Square one, and our data center located with Bell downtown. There is no scope to the work as yet for a job description, but primary concern is having someone on retainer for backup in case our internal guy is away and we have to troubleshoot or configure any of the Apache / Tomcat servers. I know this is a Linux group, but some of the servers are Windows as well. There may be more migration to Linux going forward, but for now familiarity on either platform would be required. There would be a degree of working with the regular guy continually just to make sure in an emergency the consultant would not be walking into an unknown situation. There are only about a dozen servers running the Apache / Tomcat solution on both platforms for now. If interested, please reply to me directly instead of via the list. Thanks, Ray ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 28 22:55:42 2009 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:55:42 -0500 Subject: Copying files with spaces in them Message-ID: I've got a Makefile that is trying to copy man pages into place; unfortunately, since they are (somewhat legitimately) created with spaces in them, the following breaks: for file in $(wildcard man1/*) ; do \ $(INSTALL_DATA) $$file $(DESTDIR)$(mandir)/man1 || exit;\ done for file in $(wildcard man7/*) ; do \ $(INSTALL_DATA) $$file $(DESTDIR)$(mandir)/man7 || exit;\ done I'll bet Chris Johnson would have a better idiom he could suggest offhand ;-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Marilyn Monroe - "It's not true that I had nothing on. I had the radio on." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 28 23:04:28 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:04:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Copying files with spaces in them In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: > I've got a Makefile that is trying to copy man pages into place; > unfortunately, since they are (somewhat legitimately) created with > spaces in them, There's NO excuse for that. > the following breaks: > > for file in $(wildcard man1/*) ; do \ > $(INSTALL_DATA) $$file $(DESTDIR)$(mandir)/man1 || exit;\ > done > for file in $(wildcard man7/*) ; do \ > $(INSTALL_DATA) $$file $(DESTDIR)$(mandir)/man7 || exit;\ > done > > I'll bet Chris Johnson would have a better idiom he could suggest offhand ;-). A makefile is not a shell script. In a shell script, I would use: for file in man1/* do cp "$file" "$DESTDIR/$mandir"/man1 || exit done -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 28 23:51:18 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:51:18 -0500 Subject: Copying files with spaces in them In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0289B71B-7112-41D4-AEDD-5671CC8B26C8@gmail.com> Wouldn't that still break on the spaces? If you have a file like "main data.dat", you will end up with two values of $file being: main data.data While I agree that spaces may not be a good idea in general for many cases, how to make allowances for them in shell scripts? On 28-Jan-09, at 6:04 PM, "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: > >> I've got a Makefile that is trying to copy man pages into place; >> unfortunately, since they are (somewhat legitimately) created with >> spaces in them, > > There's NO excuse for that. > >> the following breaks: >> >> for file in $(wildcard man1/*) ; do \ >> $(INSTALL_DATA) $$file $(DESTDIR)$(mandir)/man1 || exit;\ >> done >> for file in $(wildcard man7/*) ; do \ >> $(INSTALL_DATA) $$file $(DESTDIR)$(mandir)/man7 || exit;\ >> done >> >> I'll bet Chris Johnson would have a better idiom he could suggest >> offhand ;-). > > A makefile is not a shell script. In a shell script, I would use: > > for file in man1/* > do > cp "$file" "$DESTDIR/$mandir"/man1 || exit > done > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster > ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== > Author: > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Jan 28 23:59:05 2009 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:59:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Copying files with spaces in them In-Reply-To: <0289B71B-7112-41D4-AEDD-5671CC8B26C8-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <0289B71B-7112-41D4-AEDD-5671CC8B26C8@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, Aviss,Tyler wrote: > Wouldn't that still break on the spaces? If you have a file like "main > data.dat", you will end up with two values of $file being: > main > data.data No. Wildcards are expanded to filenames, no matter what characters the names contain. For example, try this in an empty directory: touch a.txt "a b.txt" "c d.txt" "e f.txt" q.txt printf "FILE: %s\n" *.txt > While I agree that spaces may not be a good idea in general for many cases, > how to make allowances for them in shell scripts? > > > On 28-Jan-09, at 6:04 PM, "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > >> On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: >> >>> I've got a Makefile that is trying to copy man pages into place; >>> unfortunately, since they are (somewhat legitimately) created with >>> spaces in them, >> >> There's NO excuse for that. >> >>> the following breaks: >>> >>> for file in $(wildcard man1/*) ; do \ >>> $(INSTALL_DATA) $$file $(DESTDIR)$(mandir)/man1 || exit;\ >>> done >>> for file in $(wildcard man7/*) ; do \ >>> $(INSTALL_DATA) $$file $(DESTDIR)$(mandir)/man7 || exit;\ >>> done >>> >>> I'll bet Chris Johnson would have a better idiom he could suggest offhand >>> ;-). >> >> A makefile is not a shell script. In a shell script, I would use: >> >> for file in man1/* >> do >> cp "$file" "$DESTDIR/$mandir"/man1 || exit >> done >> >> -- >> Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster >> ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== >> Author: >> Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 00:00:52 2009 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:00:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: Copying files with spaces in them In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, Christopher Browne wrote: > I've got a Makefile that is trying to copy man pages into > place; unfortunately, since they are (somewhat legitimately) > created with spaces in them, the following breaks: > > for file in $(wildcard man1/*) ; do \ > $(INSTALL_DATA) $$file $(DESTDIR)$(mandir)/man1 || exit;\ > done > for file in $(wildcard man7/*) ; do \ > $(INSTALL_DATA) $$file $(DESTDIR)$(mandir)/man7 || exit;\ > done Can you clarify the issue, whether: a) The source directory is "wildcard man1" whose name contain space, b) The source files under source directory have names with spaces in them, or c) both? -- (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ ** Xinnian Kuaile! ???? Gongxi Facai! ???? ** From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 02:28:43 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:28:43 -0500 Subject: OT: Rogers PVR: A Question...? Message-ID: <7c50d3570901281828k32e8bbbcs3ace60f14da21e0f@mail.gmail.com> On the Motorola (HD)PVR, is it possible to add an external USB HDD to add more space? -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 02:55:58 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:55:58 -0500 Subject: OT: Rogers PVR: A Question...? In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901281828k32e8bbbcs3ace60f14da21e0f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570901281828k32e8bbbcs3ace60f14da21e0f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090128215558.08dd36f0.tleslie@tcn.net> i asked the rogers support in my area, they said no :( they don't allow the box to use that. i bought a haupaug HD capture device, captures mp4 then shots compressed over usb to ubuntu, captures 1080 res well, but its limited to component in, but atleast that allows one to get by the DRM too. so now atleast I can save my HD vids to my linux box, and it takes only a small hit of distortion in the whole flow of things. even if some how you can get more expansion, you'd still have to tackle the DRM think potentially. -tl On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:28:43 -0500 Michael Lauzon wrote: > On the Motorola (HD)PVR, is it possible to add an external USB HDD to > add more space? > > -- > Sincerely, > > Michael Lauzon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 12:17:37 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 07:17:37 -0500 Subject: OT: Rogers PVR: A Question...? In-Reply-To: <20090128215558.08dd36f0.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570901281828k32e8bbbcs3ace60f14da21e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20090128215558.08dd36f0.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <49819E61.3060809@rogers.com> ted leslie wrote: > i asked the rogers support in my area, they said no :( > they don't allow the box to use that. > > ??? My Rogers supplied Scientific Atlanta PVR has a SATA port, for attaching external drives. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 15:39:02 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 07:39:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: If you need a laugh References: , <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> A <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> Message-ID: <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello everyone! If you want a good chuckly, read on. I saw this posted on a freecycle group. Abidel This is a long shot but I thought that I would try asking I NEED (WANTED)Computer Due to a computer failure I'm in need of the "Main Brain" As I have a small business and need a computer to get my payroll done. I don't need the monitor or Keyboard just the "Main Brain". Thanks for considering my request. __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 15:44:34 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:44:34 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <115043.5087.qm-6lfro61OGmP5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> On 29/01/2009, Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: > > Hello everyone! > > If you want a good chuckly, read on. I saw this posted on a freecycle group. > > Abidel > > > > This is a long shot but I thought that I would try asking I NEED > (WANTED)Computer Due to a computer failure I'm in need of the "Main > Brain" As I have a small business and need a computer to get my payroll > done. I don't need the monitor or Keyboard just the "Main Brain". > Thanks for considering my request. If he's running his own 'small business', why wouldn't he have the money to go out and buy a computer..?! -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 15:50:06 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:50:06 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > On 29/01/2009, Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: >> >> Hello everyone! >> >> If you want a good chuckly, read on. I saw this posted on a freecycle group. [...] >> This is a long shot but I thought that I would try asking I NEED >> (WANTED)Computer Due to a computer failure I'm in need of the "Main >> Brain" As I have a small business and need a computer to get my payroll >> done. I don't need the monitor or Keyboard just the "Main Brain". >> Thanks for considering my request. > > > If he's running his own 'small business', why wouldn't he have the > money to go out and buy a computer..?! Not to detract from your point, but many businesses don't want to shell anything out that they can get for free or at little cost right now. Ignoring economics, that can be a Good Thing - particularly in the recent Surge Of Acceptance of FOSS in general. $0.02 ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 16:03:16 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:03:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: If you need a laugh References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> What tickled my funny bone was that person wanted the "Main Brain". It sounds like it could become a domb blonde joke! LOL ________________________________ From: Scott Elcomb To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:50:06 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: If you need a laugh On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > On 29/01/2009, Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: >> >> Hello everyone! >> >> If you want a good chuckly, read on. I saw this posted on a freecycle group. [...] >> This is a long shot but I thought that I would try asking I NEED >> (WANTED)Computer Due to a computer failure I'm in need of the "Main >> Brain" As I have a small business and need a computer to get my payroll >> done. I don't need the monitor or Keyboard just the "Main Brain". >> Thanks for considering my request. > > > If he's running his own 'small business', why wouldn't he have the > money to go out and buy a computer..?! Not to detract from your point, but many businesses don't want to shell anything out that they can get for free or at little cost right now. Ignoring economics, that can be a Good Thing - particularly in the recent Surge Of Acceptance of FOSS in general. $0.02 ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 17:37:46 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:37:46 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <444039.99981.qm-9zO9EEzDbjn5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4981E96A.4050209@alteeve.com> Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: > What tickled my funny bone was that person wanted the "Main Brain". It > sounds like it could become a domb blonde joke! LOL It's a better term than calling it a "CPU" or the "Hard Drive". At least it's vague enough not to send someone in the wrong direction. :P Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 18:17:16 2009 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:17:16 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4981F2AC.9010804@linuxcaffe.ca> Michael Lauzon wrote: > > If he's running his own 'small business', why wouldn't he have the > money to go out and buy a computer..?! because running a small business ain't easy, and most of the small business owners I know (including myself) have less discretionary spending than your average teenager. djp > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 18:20:00 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:20:00 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <4981E96A.4050209-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981E96A.4050209@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901291020n374d395eo146a3ed4d0c3eeb@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:37, Madison Kelly wrote: > It's a better term than calling it a "CPU" or the "Hard Drive". At least > it's vague enough not to send someone in the wrong direction. :P I've heard people call the hard drive: memory.... -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 18:32:41 2009 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:32:41 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <444039.99981.qm-9zO9EEzDbjn5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4981F649.6050206@rogers.com> Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: > What tickled my funny bone was that person wanted the "Main Brain". It > sounds like it could become a domb blonde joke! LOL > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ** Ah, vainly looking for something that isn't there -- sort of like Palin and an IQ. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 18:41:46 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:41:46 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <4981F649.6050206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981F649.6050206@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0901291041j1f25789eqb9d43137731472a1@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 1:32 PM, John McGregor wrote: > Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: >> >> What tickled my funny bone was that person wanted the "Main Brain". It >> sounds like it could become a domb blonde joke! LOL >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ** > > Ah, vainly looking for something that isn't there -- sort of like Palin and > an IQ. Trying not to drive this issue any further into the wood, I'd suggest cutting her some slack though. I missed most of Palin-mania (though I've seen a few things that made me scratch my head) but still, I don't see "satire" that directly hunts (er - targets?) living people as being "fair." (Phrase-only:... ) Lord knows I've made plenty of mistakes myself and sure as HELL I try to learn from them. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 18:46:29 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:46:29 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <4981F649.6050206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981F649.6050206@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4981F985.6000405@alteeve.com> John McGregor wrote: > Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: >> What tickled my funny bone was that person wanted the "Main Brain". It >> sounds like it could become a domb blonde joke! LOL >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ** > Ah, vainly looking for something that isn't there -- sort of like Palin > and an IQ. > > > John >_o Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 19:20:30 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:20:30 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0901291041j1f25789eqb9d43137731472a1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981F649.6050206@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0901291041j1f25789eqb9d43137731472a1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090129192029.GG26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 01:41:46PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Trying not to drive this issue any further into the wood, I'd suggest > cutting her some slack though. > > I missed most of Palin-mania (though I've seen a few things that made > me scratch my head) but still, I don't see "satire" that directly > hunts (er - targets?) living people as being "fair." (Phrase-only:... > ) Lord knows I've made plenty of mistakes myself and sure as HELL I > try to learn from them. After the thing I saw a couple of days ago where someone was asking how being in charge of a state with borders to other countries gave her any experience relevant for dealing with foreign affairs, I have concluded she really does in fact not have a clue. It's not like she actually ever had any negotiations with either neighbouring country (canada and russia that is). Now if any satire is fair, well that's a different issue. To a large extent if you want to be a public figure, you have to put up with it. That's a price to pay. Those that put up with it and play along a bit tend to be much more popular with the people that those that are offended by it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 19:26:24 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:26:24 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901291020n374d395eo146a3ed4d0c3eeb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981E96A.4050209@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901291020n374d395eo146a3ed4d0c3eeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0901291126m1d231fa6t728c617519a7d7ad@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:37, Madison Kelly wrote: >> It's a better term than calling it a "CPU" or the "Hard Drive". At least >> it's vague enough not to send someone in the wrong direction. :P > > I've heard people call the hard drive: memory.... > > I hear that one a fair bit, but more often it's the use of CPU to refer to the computer as a whole. I've had people get angsty at me for calling the unit as a whole a "PC" :-) Ever tried explaining the different between a computer, CPU, RAM, and hard-disk to a non-technical person? What's the best explanation you've found? PC/Desktop/Computer/Laptop: The whole computer CPU=The brain of the computer. It has to be fast enough to run your programs LCD/monitor=The TV-like part RAM/Memory=Where the computer holds programs while they're running. It gets erased when the computer is reset or turned off. Large programs need to be able to fit into this while your computer is running. Hard Drive=Where your computer holds (semi) permanent information such as installed programs or saved documents/movies/music/etc. It is not deleted when your computer is turned off, and space is consumed as you install more programs or save/download more documents > > -- > Sincerely, > > Michael Lauzon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 19:30:48 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:30:48 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <20090129192029.GG26063-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981F649.6050206@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0901291041j1f25789eqb9d43137731472a1@mail.gmail.com> <20090129192029.GG26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0901291130r1b735489oe18428176b6a8d51@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 01:41:46PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> Trying not to drive this issue any further into the wood, I'd suggest >> cutting her som slack though. >> >> I missed most of Palin-mania (though I've seen a few things that made >> me scratch my head) but still, I don't see "satire" that directly >> hunts (er - targets?) living people as being "fair." (Phrase-only:... >> ) Lord knows I've made plenty of mistakes myself and sure as HELL I >> try to learn from them. > > After the thing I saw a couple of days ago where someone was asking how > being in charge of a state with borders to other countries gave her any > experience relevant for dealing with foreign affairs, I have concluded > she really does in fact not have a clue. It's not like she actually > ever had any negotiations with either neighbouring country (canada and > russia that is). > > Now if any satire is fair, well that's a different issue. To a large > extent if you want to be a public figure, you have to put up with it. > That's a price to pay. Those that put up with it and play along a bit > tend to be much more popular with the people that those that are > offended by it. That last sentence does it for me. Most Serisously: Thanks - it justifies (in-a-sense) both the xmtter and rxver. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 19:31:35 2009 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:31:35 -0500 Subject: Linux coding Message-ID: <3a97ef0901291131w68f1e3br655c9b4dfb0a2186@mail.gmail.com> Awhile ago I bought an EEE to make use of some of that otherwise wasted time I spend on the subway. So far I've been trying to update my somewhat rusty knowledge of C++ and working with toolkits such as OGRE. Does anyone else on the list actually code C++'ish apps under Linux, or has played around with 3d/Ogre/SDL/etc development? What do you find are the best resources for these? I find that a large portion of books tend to be windows-focussed, even for the cross-platform apps or frameworks. Also, this may start a bit of a flamewar... but on modern systems, how would compare performance of something like Python (I haven't used it, but after Perl/PHP/C/C++ they're all somewhat familiar in concept/layout) or interpreted languages VS something compiled with C/C++/etc - TJA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 19:42:28 2009 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:42:28 -0500 Subject: [OT] Re:If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0901291041j1f25789eqb9d43137731472a1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981F649.6050206@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0901291041j1f25789eqb9d43137731472a1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498206A4.60901@telly.org> Scott Elcomb wrote: > Trying not to drive this issue any further into the wood, I'd suggest > cutting her some slack though. > > I missed most of Palin-mania (though I've seen a few things that made > me scratch my head) but still, I don't see "satire" that directly > hunts (er - targets?) living people as being "fair." Sorry, but she was absolutely fair game. Her part of the campaign was a deliberate and steady stream of anti-science, anti-intellectual fearmongering. She exploited the just-plain-folks personna to an absurd extreme, bashing "elites" at every opportunity and painting as un-American anyone who didn't buy into her party dogma. She mercilessly attacked every thread that may have linked Obama to scandal, while meticulously avoiding ethics probes from the state she governed -- and the revelation of her own campaign extravagances. The invective launched at Palin to date, at its worst, pales next to the nastiness of the campaign she ran. Do you think it was an accident that people at her rallies were heard to yell "kill Obama"? To date, she has been unrepentant and indicated that she will probably be a part of future presidential races. So sorry, but she deserves absolutely everything that has and will come her way. You don't need to be a fan of Obama to see that what she did was harmful to the democratic process. Absolutely no slack ought to be cut. She and her campaign style need to be purged from American politics. Her celebration of ignorance may be the source of humour, but the tone she brought to the campaign was certainly not. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 19:45:03 2009 From: phillip.mills1-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:45:03 -0500 Subject: Linux coding In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901291131w68f1e3br655c9b4dfb0a2186-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901291131w68f1e3br655c9b4dfb0a2186@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090129144503.gvsvucld1ccwcosc@easymail.pathcom.com> ----- Message from tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org --------- > Does anyone else on the list actually code C++'ish apps under Linux, > or has played around with 3d/Ogre/SDL/etc development? I still do some C++ development on Linux (and Mac/Windows) though I'm about 80% Java these days in terms of paid work. I know someone who uses SDL and seems to like it. Even my game applications aren't that graphics-oriented, so I'm more a Qt/wxWidgets kind of person when it comes to toolkits. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 19:41:16 2009 From: stephenc-wtWqQT8woy8 at public.gmane.org (Stephen W. Clarke) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:41:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901291126m1d231fa6t728c617519a7d7ad-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981E96A.4050209@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901291020n374d395eo146a3ed4d0c3eeb@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0901291126m1d231fa6t728c617519a7d7ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2458.192.168.20.1.1233258076.squirrel@www.nray.ca> Descriptions I've found work well when talking to the over 60 crowd are: CPU: The part of the computer that actually does work. Memory: The workspace for the CPU. Where the CPU does the work. The more workspace you have the more work the CPU can get done. HDD: The filing cabinet for the computer. The more files you have the more disk space you need. Motherboard: The piece that allows all of the other bits to communicate. Unfortunately, I have yet to find a term I'm happy with to distinguish a "computer" with monitor, keyboard and mouse and one without monitor, keyboard and mouse. As a result I usually use the word "computer" for both situations. I've also described a swap file as being like a "box under your desk where you store files your are using that you can't fit on your workspace". It seemed to work for the situation. :) Stephen On Thu, January 29, 2009 14:26, Tyler Aviss wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Michael Lauzon > wrote: > >> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:37, Madison Kelly wrote: >> >>> It's a better term than calling it a "CPU" or the "Hard Drive". At >>> least it's vague enough not to send someone in the wrong direction. :P >>> >> >> I've heard people call the hard drive: memory.... >> >> >> > I hear that one a fair bit, but more often it's the use of CPU to > refer to the computer as a whole. I've had people get angsty at me for > calling the unit as a whole a "PC" :-) Ever tried explaining the different > between a computer, CPU, RAM, and hard-disk to a non-technical person? > What's the best explanation > you've found? > > > PC/Desktop/Computer/Laptop: The whole computer > CPU=The brain of the computer. It has to be fast enough to run your > programs LCD/monitor=The TV-like part > RAM/Memory=Where the computer holds programs while they're running. It > gets erased when the computer is reset or turned off. Large programs need > to be able to fit into this while your computer is running. Hard > Drive=Where your computer holds (semi) permanent information such > as installed programs or saved documents/movies/music/etc. It is not > deleted when your computer is turned off, and space is consumed as you > install more programs or save/download more documents > > > >> >> -- >> Sincerely, >> >> >> Michael Lauzon >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (647) 302-0942 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- Stephen W. Clarke Marketing and Communications Officer Nray Services Inc. 56A Head Street Dundas, ON L9H 3H7 CANADA (905) 627-1302 x14 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 19:54:52 2009 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:54:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OT] Re:If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <498206A4.60901-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981F649.6050206@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0901291041j1f25789eqb9d43137731472a1@mail.gmail.com> <498206A4.60901@telly.org> Message-ID: i feel compelled to contribute to this horrifically off-topic thread, then i will get back to work and i expect you folks to do the same. as if. :-) http://borowitzreport.com/article.aspx?ID=6982 rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jvetterli-Rn4VEauK+AKRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 20:02:06 2009 From: jvetterli-Rn4VEauK+AKRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (jvetterli-Rn4VEauK+AKRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:02:06 -0500 Subject: Linux coding In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901291131w68f1e3br655c9b4dfb0a2186-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901291131w68f1e3br655c9b4dfb0a2186@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 02:31:35PM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Does anyone else on the list actually code C++'ish apps under Linux, > or has played around with 3d/Ogre/SDL/etc development? > What do you find are the best resources for these? I find that a large > portion of books tend to be windows-focussed, even for the > cross-platform apps or frameworks. I've dabbled with OpenGL, and I found these to be very useful and not Windows-centric: http://www.opengl.org/documentation/red_book/ http://www.opengl.org/documentation/blue_book/ JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 20:15:59 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:15:59 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570901291020n374d395eo146a3ed4d0c3eeb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981E96A.4050209@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901291020n374d395eo146a3ed4d0c3eeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49820E7F.1030801@rogers.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:37, Madison Kelly wrote: >> It's a better term than calling it a "CPU" or the "Hard Drive". At least >> it's vague enough not to send someone in the wrong direction. :P > > I've heard people call the hard drive: memory.... > > > And call the monitor the computer. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 20:18:25 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:18:25 -0500 Subject: [OT] Re:If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: References: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981F649.6050206@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0901291041j1f25789eqb9d43137731472a1@mail.gmail.com> <498206A4.60901@telly.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0901291218k47402b06gb946990a862f9db4@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > i feel compelled to contribute to this horrifically off-topic > thread, then i will get back to work and i expect you folks to do the > same. as if. :-) > > http://borowitzreport.com/article.aspx?ID=6982 As if indeed! The article you reference cites no other online re-sources! -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 20:18:57 2009 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:18:57 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <49820E7F.1030801-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981E96A.4050209@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901291020n374d395eo146a3ed4d0c3eeb@mail.gmail.com> <49820E7F.1030801@rogers.com> Message-ID: <7c50d3570901291218j205a4888ic86b51ed868dc89d@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 15:15, James Knott wrote: > And call the monitor the computer. Well, that is true...if it was an iMac; although Macs aren't computers -- sorry not an Apple fan except for the iPod. -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 21:02:06 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:02:06 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <20090129192029.GG26063-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981F649.6050206@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0901291041j1f25789eqb9d43137731472a1@mail.gmail.com> <20090129192029.GG26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4982194E.4030501@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 01:41:46PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> Trying not to drive this issue any further into the wood, I'd suggest >> cutting her some slack though. >> >> I missed most of Palin-mania (though I've seen a few things that made >> me scratch my head) but still, I don't see "satire" that directly >> hunts (er - targets?) living people as being "fair." (Phrase-only:... >> ) Lord knows I've made plenty of mistakes myself and sure as HELL I >> try to learn from them. > > After the thing I saw a couple of days ago where someone was asking how > being in charge of a state with borders to other countries gave her any > experience relevant for dealing with foreign affairs, I have concluded > she really does in fact not have a clue. It's not like she actually > ever had any negotiations with either neighbouring country (canada and > russia that is). Don't forget, she can see Russia from her home! ;-) > > Now if any satire is fair, well that's a different issue. To a large > extent if you want to be a public figure, you have to put up with it. > That's a price to pay. Those that put up with it and play along a bit > tend to be much more popular with the people that those that are > offended by it. > While she has gone along with it and seems to be a nice person, she has demonstrated, on several occasions, she wasn't qualified for the job. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 21:22:19 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:22:19 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901291126m1d231fa6t728c617519a7d7ad-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981E96A.4050209@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901291020n374d395eo146a3ed4d0c3eeb@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0901291126m1d231fa6t728c617519a7d7ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090129212219.GH26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 02:26:24PM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I hear that one a fair bit, but more often it's the use of CPU to > refer to the computer as a whole. I've had people get angsty at me for > calling the unit as a whole a "PC" :-) > Ever tried explaining the different between a computer, CPU, RAM, and > hard-disk to a non-technical person? What's the best explanation > you've found? It's a computer. Inside it there may be CPUs, memory, harddisks, etc, but the whole thing is a computer. > PC/Desktop/Computer/Laptop: The whole computer Exactly. The monitor might be built in to the computer, or it might be next to it. In some cases it may look more like the computer is built into the screen, but oh well. > CPU=The brain of the computer. It has to be fast enough to run your programs > LCD/monitor=The TV-like part > RAM/Memory=Where the computer holds programs while they're running. It > gets erased when the computer is reset or turned off. Large programs > need to be able to fit into this while your computer is running. > Hard Drive=Where your computer holds (semi) permanent information such > as installed programs or saved documents/movies/music/etc. It is not > deleted when your computer is turned off, and space is consumed as you > install more programs or save/download more documents Yeah, that's usually how it works. Not always, but usually. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 21:24:43 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:24:43 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <2458.192.168.20.1.1233258076.squirrel-CZTcpUUvSagsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981E96A.4050209@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901291020n374d395eo146a3ed4d0c3eeb@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0901291126m1d231fa6t728c617519a7d7ad@mail.gmail.com> <2458.192.168.20.1.1233258076.squirrel@www.nray.ca> Message-ID: <20090129212443.GI26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 02:41:16PM -0500, Stephen W. Clarke wrote: > Descriptions I've found work well when talking to the over 60 crowd are: > > CPU: The part of the computer that actually does work. > Memory: The workspace for the CPU. Where the CPU does the work. The more > workspace you have the more work the CPU can get done. > HDD: The filing cabinet for the computer. The more files you have the more > disk space you need. > Motherboard: The piece that allows all of the other bits to communicate. > > Unfortunately, I have yet to find a term I'm happy with to distinguish a > "computer" with monitor, keyboard and mouse and one without monitor, > keyboard and mouse. As a result I usually use the word "computer" for both > situations. > > I've also described a swap file as being like a "box under your desk where > you store files your are using that you can't fit on your workspace". It > seemed to work for the situation. :) Just hard to explain that you might move things between the box and your desk 100 times in a second. :) To some extent swap space is like a large table in another room that you can store some of your work on, but there is no chair in there so you can't do anywork unless you bring it back to your desk first. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 21:30:30 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:30:30 -0500 Subject: Linux coding In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0901291131w68f1e3br655c9b4dfb0a2186-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901291131w68f1e3br655c9b4dfb0a2186@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090129213029.GJ26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 02:31:35PM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Awhile ago I bought an EEE to make use of some of that otherwise > wasted time I spend on the subway. So far I've been trying to update > my somewhat rusty knowledge of C++ and working with toolkits such as > OGRE. > Does anyone else on the list actually code C++'ish apps under Linux, > or has played around with 3d/Ogre/SDL/etc development? I have played a bit with SDL and opengl in the past. I avoid c++ in favour of c on principle though. Python is more fun and quicker to play with for sdl and opengl though especially using the pygame library. All of the fun with none of the ugly c or c++ bits to worry about. > What do you find are the best resources for these? I find that a large > portion of books tend to be windows-focussed, even for the > cross-platform apps or frameworks. > > Also, this may start a bit of a flamewar... but on modern systems, how > would compare performance of something like Python (I haven't used it, > but after Perl/PHP/C/C++ they're all somewhat familiar in > concept/layout) or interpreted languages VS something compiled with > C/C++/etc python actually does some compiling when you run it, and I believe, caches the result so running the same script (if it hasn't changed) is much faster. It is also very good at interfacing with c libraries and hence taking advantage of c libraries doing the heavy work, but letting someone else write those. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 23:56:38 2009 From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:56:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [OT] Re:If you need a laugh References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981F649.6050206@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0901291041j1f25789eqb9d43137731472a1@mail.gmail.com> <498206A4.60901@telly.org> Message-ID: <345128.52307.qm@web59506.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello again! Thanks to everyone for your input on my original post. I never imagined such a huge response. And yes, now I will get back to my own work now too! :P ROFL Abidel i feel compelled to contribute to this horrifically off-topic thread, then i will get back to work and i expect you folks to do the same. as if. :-) __________________________________________________________________ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 00:00:38 2009 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:00:38 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <20090129192029.GG26063-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0901291041j1f25789eqb9d43137731472a1@mail.gmail.com> <20090129192029.GG26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200901291900.39133.glayng@sympatico.ca> I'm back to thinking Michael instead of Sarah when someone mentions "Palin", especially when one is talking about going in search of things. On Thursday 29 January 2009 14:20, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 01:41:46PM -0500, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Trying not to drive this issue any further into the wood, I'd suggest > > cutting her some slack though. > > > > I missed most of Palin-mania (though I've seen a few things that made > > me scratch my head) but still, I don't see "satire" that directly > > hunts (er - targets?) living people as being "fair." (Phrase-only:... > > ) Lord knows I've made plenty of mistakes myself and sure as HELL I > > try to learn from them. > > After the thing I saw a couple of days ago where someone was asking how > being in charge of a state with borders to other countries gave her any > experience relevant for dealing with foreign affairs, I have concluded > she really does in fact not have a clue. It's not like she actually > ever had any negotiations with either neighbouring country (canada and > russia that is). > > Now if any satire is fair, well that's a different issue. To a large > extent if you want to be a public figure, you have to put up with it. > That's a price to pay. Those that put up with it and play along a bit > tend to be much more popular with the people that those that are > offended by it. -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 00:52:18 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:52:18 -0500 Subject: OT: Trying to offload some new wireless network hardware Message-ID: <49824F42.1090603@alteeve.com> Hi all, I hope this isn't too off topic. Do to a mix-up at a recent job, I'm left holding some brand new, still in cellophane G and N network hardware. The restocking fee is kinda silly, so I am hoping to sell it off to TLUG'ers. I'm not looking to make a profit, or even necessarily break even, just not lose too much. What I've got is (prices are what I paid, make an offer): 3x Belkin Wireless G USB NICs (F5D7050) - http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=179211 - http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014152&cid=NT.541 - $22.99/ea 4x Linksys Wireless N USB NICs (WUSB600N) - http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/products/WUSB600N - http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019366&cid=NT.541 - $69.99/ea All brand new with full warranty. If you're near the downtown or out in Mississauga/Oakville I may be able to deliver for you. Specially the N-routers. Heck, I travel all over for work, so no matter where you are, if you're interested, let me know and I'll see if I can deliver. :) Thanks! Madi PS - Please reply off-list, it's probably already a bad enough faux-pas to post this. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jan 29 20:44:06 2009 From: redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (dave jackson) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:44:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0901291041j1f25789eqb9d43137731472a1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0901291041j1f25789eqb9d43137731472a1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <813698.8368.qm@web31303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> g'day TLUGers, -here are some more Palin tidbits: http://arizona.typepad.com/blog/2008/11/the-wasilla-hillbillies-thanksgiving-special.html http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/6074-on-the-road-to-moronity-.html More wisdom from President Palin. http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/436.html http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=210384 AND http://www.landoverbaptist.org/2008/october/sarahpalinweek.html 10/28/08 Schedule of Events: Sarah Palin Week Landover Baptist Church, Freehold Iowa Sunday 3 P.M. - Sarah Palin Moose and Elk Meat Alaskan-Style Barbecue. The buffet will offer all of Sarah Palin's favorite home cooked recipes including her famous sweet Bear Claw dessert. 5 P.M. Dedication of the Bristol Palin Christian Quarantine Facility for Famous Unwed Teenage Mothers on Freedom Avenue. 7 P.M. Special Sarah Palin Sermon in Main Sanctuary: "And God Said, It's Time to Put a Pretty Face in the White House" Pastor Deacon Fred preaching. 9 P.M. Sarah Palin Endangered Species Pelt Raffle Sister Sarah will raffle off 1,800 sq. yards of wall-to-wall carpeting for your den or rumpus room made from the bleached pelts of infant polar bears she has chased around the ice and shot in the face with a machine gun from the Governor's hovering helicopter. Monday 9 A.M. Sarah Palin Christian Prayer Breakfast in the new Cindy McCain Banquet Hall and Pharmacy at the Landover Baptist Resort and Hotel on Waterwalk Avenue, to the left as you turn right on highway 7 at the Red Sea World exit. 2 P.M. Sarah Palin Live Animal Skinning Demonstration. Church members should bring old or unwanted pets, stray cats or livestock animals so they can follow along with Sister Sarah and the Landover Ladies as they perform a step-by-step authentic wilderness animal skinning survival demonstration on a deer Pastor's limousine pinned up against a pine tree last night. Everyone will then have their own clumps of animal flesh and fur as Sarah and her husband, Todd will teach us later how to stitch together an authentic Eskimo fire-water pouch. 7 P.M. Sarah Palin Fashion Show - Sponsored by Wal- Mart and the Burlington Coat Outlet- West Lawn Invitation Only. 8 P.M. Sarah Palin addresses the fine Christian ladies of Bringing Integrity To Christian Homemakers. Sarah will demonstrate techniques used by the Eskimos in her hometown to get a child to fall quickly to sleep. Please bring a rag, some kerosene and a hipflask of vodka. Tuesday 8 A.M. Sarah Palin Plenary Session - "Rebellious Children, God's Blessing and Satan's Curse" 10 A.M. Sarah Palin Fertility Clinic Grand Opening - 18 Soul Winner's Lane between the Chick-fil-A and the House of Laura Bush Pantsuit Emporium. 2 P.M. Sarah Palin Tea on the Meadow with Landover Ladies (discussion will be relegated to making ONLY POSITIVE remarks about Sister Sarah's children. If in doubt, a 17-page, single-spaced list of forbidden topics is available as a guide to the less naturally tactful next to the last ATM to the right in the main lobby. All copies of this list must be returned to Pastor for burning before our guest arrives). 7 P.M. Sarah Palin Hour of Imprecatory Prayer - Church members will dedicate one hour of prayer to all matters concerning Sister Sarah and against the principalities of darkness who would see any ill will toward her. A note from our Jewish lawyers: No VOCALIZED death threats will be permitted. Wednesday 9 A.M. Voter's Registration Card Exchange - Church members drop off free Popeye's Fried Chicken Meals and pick up voter's registration cards from poor families in Des Moines who don't know how to vote correctly 12 P.M. Sarah Palin Back to School Lunch. Parents of Saved children age 4-18 will meet their kids for lunch to hear a special message about Sarah Palin and her views on Creation Science Education over the intercom, including tales her great-granddaddy told her about the day he crossed paths with a friendly Tyrannosaurus Rex on the way back from the fishing hole. Lunch will consist of Sarah Palin's Alaskan Salmon recipe, acorn muffins and home made Republican grown applesauce. 9 P.M. The Books Sarah Palin and Jesus Want You to Burn - This annual event was formerly called, "The Harry Potter Book Burning" This year we are going to burn all of the books Sarah Palin hates. See any Christian public school principal in your district for a full list. Thursday 10 A.M. Sarah Palin Witnessing Tips and Sarah Palin Recipe Exchange - The Landover Ladies will hold a session in the West Chapel to discuss ways to share the message of Christ and Sarah Palin with unsaved friends and loved ones. Recipes will be exchanged after witnessing methods are exhausted. 2 P.M. Sarah Palin Casualwear Line Unveiled at Landover Christian Mall 5 P.M. Sarah Palin Big Country Diner Opens with ribbon cutting ceremony on South Jesus Blvd. 7 P.M. Sarah Palin's Favorite Bible Verses - A teaching sermon in the main sanctuary - Brother Harry Hardwick presenting 9 P.M. Sarah Palin Reprisal and Redemption Dual Ceremony: As most of you know, Heather Hardwick's second scullery maid Lavoris was raped 7 months ago by Jasper Lionel Washingtun. To celebrate the Culture of Life, Sister Sarah Palin will strike the Golden Gavel of Judgment, simultaneously signaling to Mr. Washintun's guard to hang him from the giant sycamore tree -- and for Miss Lavoris' doctor to induce labor. In this glorious moment of righteousness, when both scream the Lord's name in vain and pain, we will see the swift hand of God's judgment at the same time we see the generous hand of His love, as a 13 year-old girl joyously gives birth to her dying rapist's child. Talk about a Kodak moment! Don't miss this Amazing True Christian? event! Friday 10 A.M. Sarah Palin Look-A-Like and Sarah Palin Costume Contest - This contest serves as a fun Christian alternative to Halloween and will be held separately in six school gymnasiums throughout the Freehold, Iowa area. 12 NOON Mothers of Landover hosts a luncheon to honor Sarah Palin. Palin's special address: "Picking a day each month when you will see one of your children." 3 P.M. Todd Palin and Levi Johnston Hockey Lessons - Interested youths will need to sign up a week in advance - The event takes place at the Landover Baptist Ice Arena in Mountain View. Young ladies will not be permitted to be with Levi unchaperoned. 7 P.M. Sarah Palin Baptism of the Holy Spirit - Feet Hot For Jesus Pentecostal Revival - Although not mandatory for Landover Baptist Church members, we will be sponsoring the event for friends at the Assemblies of God who will allow us to record "tongues" events for Creation Science research and gag-reel, belly-laughs for the Board of Deacons Retreat later this Fall. Miss Palin will sing a naughty sea shanty entirely in tongues. Saturday 7 A.M. Sarah Palin Center for Creation Science Research - Ribbon Cutting Ceremony and Dedication. 10 A.M. Sarah and Todd Palin Christ-Centered Animal Hunting Tips - Sarah and Todd will share how their love of the Lord and their love of killing helpless animals makes for a fantastic spiritual experience. They will spend an afternoon praying and killing with members of the Landover Baptist Christian Gun Association. 11: AM A greased-salmon catch in the main baptism pool. 12 P.M. Sarah Palin 2K a Plate Alaskan Lunch - Limited to 30 Seats, Sarah Palin with be thawingµwaving her favorite Hungry Jack ? meals. 3 P.M. Barack "Sambo" Obama Effigy Burning and Dedication. Sarah Palin Rifle Range. Mrs. Palin will light the match at 3:15 PM SHARP! 7 P.M.SarahPalin Eyewear Center Dedication -Free Sarah Palin glasses... http://www.landoverbaptist.org/2008/october/sarahpalinweek.html cheers, dj --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Scott Elcomb wrote: > From: Scott Elcomb > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: If you need a laugh > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 10:41 AM > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 1:32 PM, John McGregor > wrote: > > Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote: > >> > >> What tickled my funny bone was that person wanted > the "Main Brain". It > >> sounds like it could become a domb blonde joke! > LOL > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> ** > > > > Ah, vainly looking for something that isn't there > -- sort of like Palin and > > an IQ. > > Trying not to drive this issue any further into the wood, > I'd suggest > cutting her some slack though. > > I missed most of Palin-mania (though I've seen a few > things that made > me scratch my head) but still, I don't see > "satire" that directly > hunts (er - targets?) living people as being > "fair." (Phrase-only:... > ) Lord knows I've made plenty of mistakes myself and > sure as HELL I > try to learn from them. > > -- > Scott Elcomb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 02:13:45 2009 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:13:45 -0500 Subject: OT: Trying to offload some new wireless network hardware In-Reply-To: <49824F42.1090603-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49824F42.1090603@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <491f66a50901291813h11937ae9i78eb623bafe4af4e@mail.gmail.com> Hi Madi, you mention that you have some N routers ? Dave On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I hope this isn't too off topic. > > Do to a mix-up at a recent job, I'm left holding some brand new, still in > cellophane G and N network hardware. The restocking fee is kinda silly, so I > am hoping to sell it off to TLUG'ers. I'm not looking to make a profit, or > even necessarily break even, just not lose too much. > > What I've got is (prices are what I paid, make an offer): > > 3x Belkin Wireless G USB NICs (F5D7050) > - http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=179211 > - > http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014152&cid=NT.541 > - $22.99/ea > > 4x Linksys Wireless N USB NICs (WUSB600N) > - http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/products/WUSB600N > - > http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019366&cid=NT.541 > - $69.99/ea > > All brand new with full warranty. If you're near the downtown or out in > Mississauga/Oakville I may be able to deliver for you. Specially the > N-routers. Heck, I travel all over for work, so no matter where you are, if > you're interested, let me know and I'll see if I can deliver. :) > > Thanks! > > Madi > > PS - Please reply off-list, it's probably already a bad enough faux-pas to > post this. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 02:37:44 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:37:44 -0500 Subject: OT: Trying to offload some new wireless network hardware In-Reply-To: <491f66a50901291813h11937ae9i78eb623bafe4af4e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49824F42.1090603@alteeve.com> <491f66a50901291813h11937ae9i78eb623bafe4af4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498267F8.8030102@alteeve.com> If I did, it was a typo. I've got a Linksys WRT54GL G router, but I think I can get rid of that pretty easy so I didn't list it, but if someone wants it, I've got it. For N, I've just got the 4 USB NICs. Madi Dave Cramer wrote: > Hi Madi, > > you mention that you have some N routers ? > > Dave > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Madison Kelly > wrote: > > Hi all, > > I hope this isn't too off topic. > > Do to a mix-up at a recent job, I'm left holding some brand new, > still in cellophane G and N network hardware. The restocking fee is > kinda silly, so I am hoping to sell it off to TLUG'ers. I'm not > looking to make a profit, or even necessarily break even, just not > lose too much. > > What I've got is (prices are what I paid, make an offer): > > 3x Belkin Wireless G USB NICs (F5D7050) > - http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=179211 > - > http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014152&cid=NT.541 > > - $22.99/ea > > 4x Linksys Wireless N USB NICs (WUSB600N) > - http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/products/WUSB600N > - > http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019366&cid=NT.541 > > - $69.99/ea > > All brand new with full warranty. If you're near the downtown or > out in Mississauga/Oakville I may be able to deliver for you. > Specially the N-routers. Heck, I travel all over for work, so no > matter where you are, if you're interested, let me know and I'll see > if I can deliver. :) > > Thanks! > > Madi > > PS - Please reply off-list, it's probably already a bad enough > faux-pas to post this. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 14:10:59 2009 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:10:59 -0500 Subject: Linux coding In-Reply-To: <20090129213029.GJ26063-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0901291131w68f1e3br655c9b4dfb0a2186@mail.gmail.com> <20090129213029.GJ26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I do a lot of work with OpenGL, though as an embedded OGL implementer, rather than as a user. So I tend to be more concerned with "what allocated objects do I need to free when a context is deleted" or "what portions of what call lists can be accelerated by storing them in indirect buffers in video memory" rather than "should I use an RGB or an intensity texture" or "is it better to push and pop or just reload the perspective matrix". Still, I should be able to answer a fair number of questions and I know others who can answer more (about OpenGL). Cheers, The (an?) other Colin. On 1/29/09, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 02:31:35PM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > > > Awhile ago I bought an EEE to make use of some of that otherwise > > wasted time I spend on the subway. So far I've been trying to update > > my somewhat rusty knowledge of C++ and working with toolkits such as > > OGRE. > > Does anyone else on the list actually code C++'ish apps under Linux, > > or has played around with 3d/Ogre/SDL/etc development? > > > I have played a bit with SDL and opengl in the past. I avoid c++ in > favour of c on principle though. Python is more fun and quicker to play > with for sdl and opengl though especially using the pygame library. All > of the fun with none of the ugly c or c++ bits to worry about. > > > > What do you find are the best resources for these? I find that a large > > portion of books tend to be windows-focussed, even for the > > cross-platform apps or frameworks. > > > > Also, this may start a bit of a flamewar... but on modern systems, how > > would compare performance of something like Python (I haven't used it, > > but after Perl/PHP/C/C++ they're all somewhat familiar in > > concept/layout) or interpreted languages VS something compiled with > > C/C++/etc > > > python actually does some compiling when you run it, and I believe, > caches the result so running the same script (if it hasn't changed) is > much faster. It is also very good at interfacing with c libraries and > hence taking advantage of c libraries doing the heavy work, but letting > someone else write those. > > > -- > Len Sorensen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 18:12:05 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:12:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: If you need a laugh References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Scott Elcomb writes: > Not to detract from your point, but many businesses don't want to > shell anything out that they can get for free or at little cost right > now. Ignoring economics, that can be a Good Thing - particularly in > the recent Surge Of Acceptance of FOSS in general. Wait, wait, how do you go from 'free' in the small business context (think pirated windows) to FOSS. FOSS will be accepted at that level when the anti-piracy laws that currently apply to cd media will apply also to that. Meanwhile 'free' windows is what runs most 'small businesses'. Just a reality check. And, yes, I wish it would be otherwise. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 18:16:07 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:16:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: If you need a laugh References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <444039.99981.qm@web59507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4981E96A.4050209@alteeve.com> <7c50d3570901291020n374d395eo146a3ed4d0c3eeb@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0901291126m1d231fa6t728c617519a7d7ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Tyler Aviss writes: > > I've heard people call the hard drive: memory.... Megabits, bytes, gigas, all that geekschminktalk is so confusing ... but they sure know how little they want to pay for something they have no clue about. Somehow they understand that part better than the finance minister. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 18:27:11 2009 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:27:11 -0500 Subject: If you need a laugh In-Reply-To: References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0901301027x45adf1fbhdb62fc6ec2cbb8c8@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Peter wrote: > Scott Elcomb writes: >> Not to detract from your point, but many businesses don't want to >> shell anything out that they can get for free or at little cost right >> now. Ignoring economics, that can be a Good Thing - particularly in >> the recent Surge Of Acceptance of FOSS in general. > > Wait, wait, how do you go from 'free' in the small business context (think > pirated windows) to FOSS. FOSS will be accepted at that level when the > anti-piracy laws that currently apply to cd media will apply also to that. > Meanwhile 'free' windows is what runs most 'small businesses'. Just a reality > check. And, yes, I wish it would be otherwise. I'm not sure I'm following you here. You're suggesting that FOSS won't be accepted by SMB's unless the software is tied up by/with copy protection and/or other TPM's? (On a side note, if you're referring to the "blank media levy" [re: 'anti-piracy laws that currently apply to cd media'] then it does apply to any FOSS you burn and distribute - say to your friends or family - in Canada; you'll have already paid the "tax" when you bought the blank cd's or dvd's.) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 19:20:35 2009 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:20:35 -0500 Subject: Open Street Map Meeting - Sat. Jan 31... Message-ID: There will be a little gathering of Open Street Map fans: When: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:00 PM Where: Aroma Espresso Bar 500 Bloor St W Toronto ON M5S 1Y3 416-303-454 Update your RSVP What: A look at what still needs to be done to map Toronto (quite a bit) and the tools to get there. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 20:36:20 2009 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:36:20 -0500 Subject: OFF TOPIC: Wireless traffic sniffing Message-ID: <32f6a8880901301236m6d659684yb0fd84f16f43e029@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, I have a question regarding Wireless Traffic sniffing, lets say your at a wireless cafe, using an SSL/SSH connection 128 bit whats the chances that someone can sniff that connection and see what you are doing? For example, lets say Financial Records, Health Records or Customer Records? Can this be sniffed pretty easily or should you not even approach these type of records? My first opinion on this would be No, don't even try these type of records. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 20:51:05 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 12:51:05 -0800 Subject: OFF TOPIC: Wireless traffic sniffing In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880901301236m6d659684yb0fd84f16f43e029-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880901301236m6d659684yb0fd84f16f43e029@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420901301251s1f8d5273nc75babdbc2645a88@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > I have a question regarding Wireless Traffic sniffing, lets say your > at a wireless cafe, using an SSL/SSH connection 128 bit whats the > chances that someone can sniff that connection and see what you are > doing? > > For example, lets say Financial Records, Health Records or Customer Records? > > Can this be sniffed pretty easily or should you not even approach > these type of records? > > My first opinion on this would be No, don't even try these type of records. I always hesitate to give definitive answers to such questions because my understanding is limited. With that in mind, here is my understanding anyway. SSH is safe in this scenario, assuming you're connecting to a host you've previously connected to in a "safe" manner, and it doesn't ask you about the server's fingerprint. If SSH asks you about a changed fingerprint, you should be very suspicious--that's only happened to me legitimately when a friend swapped out servers behind his public IP and the fingerprint had actually changed. If SSH tells you it doesn't know the fingerprint for the server, you need to verify that you're talking to the right machine before proceeding because you might be talking to an illegitimate SSH "proxy" that's stealing your data. SSL is supposed to be safe in this scenario, too, but I have this niggling feeling that you can't trust the routers, for some reason but, if that's true, then I think it's a property of all networks, not just wireless ones. Certainly, once the SSL handshake is over, the crypto is "strong" and no one's going to crack it in a reasonable time frame. The handshake might be vulnerable to a man-in-the-middle attack, or something, though. Here my understanding is too fuzzy to say anything useful. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 21:40:17 2009 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:40:17 -0500 Subject: OT: Trying to offload some new wireless network hardware In-Reply-To: <49824F42.1090603-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <49824F42.1090603@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20090130214017.GK26063@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 07:52:18PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > I hope this isn't too off topic. > > Do to a mix-up at a recent job, I'm left holding some brand new, > still in cellophane G and N network hardware. The restocking fee is > kinda silly, so I am hoping to sell it off to TLUG'ers. I'm not looking > to make a profit, or even necessarily break even, just not lose too much. Is there a restocking fee if they are in original packaging? How long have you had them? > What I've got is (prices are what I paid, make an offer): > > 3x Belkin Wireless G USB NICs (F5D7050) > - http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=179211 This appears to be a ralink 2571 chipset. Might even work with recent 2.6 kernels out of the box using the rt2x00 drivers. > http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014152&cid=NT.541 > - $22.99/ea > > 4x Linksys Wireless N USB NICs (WUSB600N) > - http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/products/WUSB600N Hmm, nice that they use ralink chips in them. Ralink has linux driver sources here it would appear: http://www.ralinktech.com/ralink/Home/Support/Linux.html I have no need for a 802.11n adapter though. :) > http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019366&cid=NT.541 > - $69.99/ea > > All brand new with full warranty. If you're near the downtown or out > in Mississauga/Oakville I may be able to deliver for you. Specially the > N-routers. Heck, I travel all over for work, so no matter where you are, > if you're interested, let me know and I'll see if I can deliver. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 22:48:27 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:48:27 -0500 Subject: Disabling favicon errors Message-ID: Hi Pals, First I think I have been living in a cave or something. I just learned about favicon an hour ago. I think that is unexcusable ignorance, but it happen to be true. I have come across the name a lot of time in apache logs, but it was only today that I thought of looking it up. Actually, I used to think it was a domain name all along. Ended up in this interesting site. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7839744.stm Now, the purpose of the post. I do manage a hosting environment where apache is the web server. Some of the customers are either not interested in using favicon or are unaware of their use. This result in a lot of errors generated by apache about a missing file as below: [Tue Jan 22 12:40:27 2009] [error] [client 10.10.1.188] File does not exist: /var/www/html/favicon.ico Now, as far as I we are concerned this is just a nuisance. I have googled about it, read apache manual for a while but I have not come across a way of disabling favicon related error without disabling all the other errors message. Would any of us here have experience disabling apache error logs selectively that he/she can share with the rest of tlug please? Thanks in advance. William Regards, William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 22:57:55 2009 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:57:55 -0800 Subject: Disabling favicon errors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7ac602420901301457s128ee0d5q61fa249401983934@mail.gmail.com> I know next to squat about configuring Apache, so maybe there's a way to selectively avoid logging certain errors. However, I think favicons are requested by the browser and Apache has to return 404 to indicate "file not found". Perhaps you can flip a switch that will trick the browsers into caching the 404s for longer, or something, to reduce the number of needless requests for a non-existent favicon, but I don't know how to do that. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jan 30 23:03:33 2009 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:03:33 -0500 Subject: EnableSendfile & EnableMMAP on a modern OS Message-ID: Hey Pals, I happen to have been looking over apache manual today looking for a solution related to a problem I shared with you earlier on. As I was doing so, I came across the above two features that are offered by apache and sound really revolutionary, to a point that they are a little scary to use. I think they have been there to a point they could be considered mature, but the associated caveat sound so alarming I am not sure. Would there be someone here who have used them on modern Linux kernel and would like to share his/her experience? Google is a little sparse on the topic and the little that is available is a tad dated. Should we consider the features good to go? Thanks in advance Regards, William -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 00:27:22 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:27:22 -0500 Subject: OFF TOPIC: Wireless traffic sniffing In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880901301236m6d659684yb0fd84f16f43e029-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880901301236m6d659684yb0fd84f16f43e029@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49839AEA.6050400@rogers.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I have a question regarding Wireless Traffic sniffing, lets say your > at a wireless cafe, using an SSL/SSH connection 128 bit whats the > chances that someone can sniff that connection and see what you are > doing? > > For example, lets say Financial Records, Health Records or Customer Records? > > Can this be sniffed pretty easily or should you not even approach > these type of records? > > My first opinion on this would be No, don't even try these type of records. > I believe SSH is fairly secure. You might also want use a VPN for more security. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 02:02:25 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:02:25 -0500 Subject: New Vantec Nexstar 3i Message-ID: <4983B131.9030306@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've been eye'ing the new Vantec Nexstar 3i SATA HDD chassis for the last little bit, and was debating picking it up. I'd not seen any mention of it being supported by Linux, so was a little worried. I'm happy to say thought that, on initial testing, it works great. It's a bit different in that it's got a built-in processor that spins the drive down after a period of inactivity, from "Idle", to "Stand by" and finally "Power Down". It claims that the three states reduce power draw from 100% when in "Active" state to 80/20/7% power use, respectively. I've tried accessing the drive when in full idle and it only took about 5 seconds or so to be fully available again. Not too bad, I think. I like it, and thought others might, for use with backups. I run a nightly rsync of my local machines and remote servers and it bothered me that the normal USB carriers kept the HDD spinning the whole time. It was a waste of hydro and needless wear on the drive. So anyway, now you know it works, should any of you be curious to check it out. Cost me $45 at Canada Computers. http://www.vantecusa.com/front/product/view_detail/292 http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019533&cid=516.700 Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 02:10:34 2009 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:10:34 -0500 Subject: Disabling favicon errors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090131021034.GA4951@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 05:48:27PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: >Now, as far as I we are concerned this is just a nuisance. I have googled about >it, read apache manual for a while but I have not come across a way of >disabling favicon related error without disabling all the other errors message. >Would any of us here have experience disabling apache error logs selectively >that he/she can share with the rest of tlug please? I take a different tack with this problem - I generate a favicon with "touch" in each web root. Apache serves a 0 byte file pretty quickly, there are no errors to log, and everybody is happy. If there is a favicon in place it is unperturbed, but if it didn't exist it does now. Do this with cron or with your website creation script. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 04:08:47 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:08:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Rogers PVR: A Question...? In-Reply-To: <49819E61.3060809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570901281828k32e8bbbcs3ace60f14da21e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20090128215558.08dd36f0.tleslie@tcn.net> <49819E61.3060809@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 2009, James Knott wrote: > My Rogers supplied Scientific Atlanta PVR has a SATA port, for attaching > external drives. Yes but if it doesn't autodetect and provision the drive, or have a way to manually set it up then the drive will just sit there[1]. [1] Or worse. If you boot the PVR with it attached the drives might get detected in the wrong order and things might really go south. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 11:33:24 2009 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 06:33:24 -0500 Subject: OT: Rogers PVR: A Question...? In-Reply-To: ; from robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org on Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 23:08:47 -0500 References: <7c50d3570901281828k32e8bbbcs3ace60f14da21e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20090128215558.08dd36f0.tleslie@tcn.net> <49819E61.3060809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20090131113324.GA1948@localhost> On Fri Jan 30,2009 11:08:47 PM Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jan 2009, James Knott wrote: > >> My Rogers supplied Scientific Atlanta PVR has a SATA port, for >> attaching external drives. > > Yes but if it doesn't autodetect and provision the drive, or have a > way to manually set it up then the drive will just sit there[1]. A Rogers SA8300HD PVR will autodetect and provision any drive that is not formatted with its proprietary file system, when the drive is attached for the first time. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 13:03:23 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 08:03:23 -0500 Subject: OT: Rogers PVR: A Question...? In-Reply-To: References: <7c50d3570901281828k32e8bbbcs3ace60f14da21e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20090128215558.08dd36f0.tleslie@tcn.net> <49819E61.3060809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49844C1B.3080700@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jan 2009, James Knott wrote: > >> My Rogers supplied Scientific Atlanta PVR has a SATA port, for attaching >> external drives. > > Yes but if it doesn't autodetect and provision the drive, or have a > way to manually set it up then the drive will just sit there[1]. > > [1] Or worse. If you boot the PVR with it attached the drives might > get detected in the wrong order and things might really go south. > > Rob > Have you verified that? According to the PVR manual, it records on whichever drive has the most free space and a recording is not split across both drives. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 13:36:20 2009 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 08:36:20 -0500 Subject: New Vantec Nexstar 3i In-Reply-To: <4983B131.9030306-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4983B131.9030306@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <498453D4.1060603@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been eye'ing the new Vantec Nexstar 3i SATA HDD chassis for the > last little bit, and was debating picking it up. I'd not seen any > mention of it being supported by Linux, so was a little worried. I'm > happy to say thought that, on initial testing, it works great. > > It's a bit different in that it's got a built-in processor that spins > the drive down after a period of inactivity, from "Idle", to "Stand by" > and finally "Power Down". It claims that the three states reduce power > draw from 100% when in "Active" state to 80/20/7% power use, respectively. > > I've tried accessing the drive when in full idle and it only took > about 5 seconds or so to be fully available again. Not too bad, I think. > > I like it, and thought others might, for use with backups. I run a > nightly rsync of my local machines and remote servers and it bothered me > that the normal USB carriers kept the HDD spinning the whole time. It > was a waste of hydro and needless wear on the drive. > > So anyway, now you know it works, should any of you be curious to > check it out. Cost me $45 at Canada Computers. > > http://www.vantecusa.com/front/product/view_detail/292 > http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019533&cid=516.700 I'll second that endorsement, my use is exactly the same (plus I put a 1gb debootstrapped partition on it for emergency booting in case something goes really badly wrong). Works great, quiet, and I think they support up to 1tb disks no problem (could be more, I haven't investigated). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 16:21:42 2009 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:21:42 -0500 Subject: New Vantec Nexstar 3i In-Reply-To: <498453D4.1060603-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4983B131.9030306@alteeve.com> <498453D4.1060603@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <49847A96.2090700@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > I'll second that endorsement, my use is exactly the same (plus I put a > 1gb debootstrapped partition on it for emergency booting in case > something goes really badly wrong). Works great, quiet, and I think they > support up to 1tb disks no problem (could be more, I haven't investigated). They list 1TB as the max on the normal Nexstar 3, and I've got a 1.5TB in it just fine. I'll swap them out tomorrow and let you know for sure, but I suspect it'll work just fine. They probably list 1TB as max simply because it was the largest they tested. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 17:45:47 2009 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:45:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: If you need a laugh References: <497EA42B.19319.4F82976@sciguy.vex.net> <3C31E454411187439E3314D99DD950272E057F@jack.pcrepairs.com> <115043.5087.qm@web59502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7c50d3570901290744p476de6bfr4b44a2523a838bbf@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901290750o9c47d3esa73a802975e944a0@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0901301027x45adf1fbhdb62fc6ec2cbb8c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Scott Elcomb writes: > I'm not sure I'm following you here. You're suggesting that FOSS > won't be accepted by SMB's unless the software is tied up by/with copy > protection and/or other TPM's? No, it will be when the copyright thing of the *other* software will be enforced. So far, the only thing it seems to serve is to foist taxes onto media and allow discretionary swat actions against foreign nationals in their home countries. It is the media tax that I had in view when I wrote that. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 18:57:19 2009 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:57:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Rogers PVR: A Question...? In-Reply-To: <49844C1B.3080700-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570901281828k32e8bbbcs3ace60f14da21e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20090128215558.08dd36f0.tleslie@tcn.net> <49819E61.3060809@rogers.com> <49844C1B.3080700@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Jan 2009, James Knott wrote: I wrote: >> Yes but if it doesn't autodetect and provision the drive, or have a >> way to manually set it up then the drive will just sit there[1]. >> >> [1] Or worse. If you boot the PVR with it attached the drives might >> get detected in the wrong order and things might really go south. >> >> Rob >> > Have you verified that? According to the PVR manual, it records on > whichever drive has the most free space and a recording is not split > across both drives. I put a conditional "if" in because I wasn't sure of it. I was making the point that the software would need to support this function, which I did not expect. But based on the posts from Scott and you it does support it. We have a Rogers PVR but I haven't seen the manual for years :) I suppose there is a pdf around. I'm going to look for the eSATA port :) Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 20:38:31 2009 From: echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:38:31 -0500 Subject: Wifi FYI Message-ID: <4984B6C7.6070107@teksavvy.com> After a mess of Wifi setup problems with Ubuntu 8.10 - culminating in additional network problems, I tried Fc10. Wifi setup was a cinch (via h/w, s/w network menus). This on an Acer Aspire. -- http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 22:17:26 2009 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:17:26 -0500 Subject: OT: Rogers PVR: A Question...? In-Reply-To: <20090131113324.GA1948@localhost> References: <7c50d3570901281828k32e8bbbcs3ace60f14da21e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20090128215558.08dd36f0.tleslie@tcn.net> <49819E61.3060809@rogers.com> <20090131113324.GA1948@localhost> Message-ID: <20090131171726.f1aa7179.tleslie@tcn.net> what is the confidence factor on this? i ask rogers tech and they said no go. I am pretty sure i have a AS8300HD pvr, you tell me it works 100% i am going to give it a go. i can believe that the rogers tech might not know diddly. I just filled up my PVR today in fact, havnt had time lately to dump it off via the haupauge HD recorder. so i would dearly love to do this (attach a sata drive) also if you are doing this, is there a firm ware or OS level number that might have to be taken into account, (some min. level that this function works). -tl On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 06:33:24 -0500 Scott Allen wrote: > On Fri Jan 30,2009 11:08:47 PM Robert Brockway wrote: > > On Thu, 29 Jan 2009, James Knott wrote: > > > >> My Rogers supplied Scientific Atlanta PVR has a SATA port, for > >> attaching external drives. > > > > Yes but if it doesn't autodetect and provision the drive, or have a > > way to manually set it up then the drive will just sit there[1]. > > A Rogers SA8300HD PVR will autodetect and provision any drive that is > not formatted with its proprietary file system, when the drive is > attached for the first time. > > > -- > ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** > ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 22:21:29 2009 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:21:29 -0500 Subject: OT: Rogers PVR: A Question...? In-Reply-To: <20090131171726.f1aa7179.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <7c50d3570901281828k32e8bbbcs3ace60f14da21e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20090128215558.08dd36f0.tleslie@tcn.net> <49819E61.3060809@rogers.com> <20090131113324.GA1948@localhost> <20090131171726.f1aa7179.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <4984CEE9.1060902@rogers.com> ted leslie wrote: > what is the confidence factor on this? > i ask rogers tech and they said no go. > I am pretty sure i have a AS8300HD pvr, > you tell me it works 100% i am going to give it a go. > i can believe that the rogers tech might not know diddly. > I just filled up my PVR today in fact, > havnt had time lately to dump it off via the haupauge > HD recorder. so i would dearly love to do this > (attach a sata drive) > > also if you are doing this, is there a firm ware or OS > level number that might have to be taken into account, > (some min. level that this function works). > > I am aware of one person who's added a SATA drive, but I don't know the details. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jan 31 23:08:42 2009 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:08:42 -0500 Subject: Handling weird input devices Message-ID: <1f13df280901311508x168798f4w3d47f81e256092d9@mail.gmail.com> The short version: I bought a Contour Shuttle Xpress (http://www.contourdesign.com/shuttlepro/shuttlexpress.htm). I'd like to get it working (ie. be able to map all the buttons and dials to functions of my choosing) with Debian testing (amd64). Should I use gizmod (which has never worked for me in the past) or the much more ancient evrouter (which is much praised, but seems to have been abandoned five years ago), or is there some other program or method better suited to this? The long version: Many years ago I bought a Griffin Powermate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffin_powermate) - essentially a large knob, looks like it's from an old stereo. Except that it attaches via USB and glows blue. At the time, the best choice to get it working with Linux was powermated (http://sourceforge.net/projects/powermated/) which is a bit of a pig to set up, but works. I adore the Powermate: when someone calls, I don't have to find my music application (which desktop did I leave it on?), I just poke the Powermate and it pauses (or restarts) the music. powermated is now deprecated in favour of the more generic gizmod (http://gizmod.sourceforge.net/) which - in theory - can work with the Powermate and any specialty buttons on weird keyboards or devices. I've spent perhaps six hours over several days fighting with gizmod (most recently about a year ago) and I found that in debug mode it would acknowledge any push or twist on the Powermate correctly, but nothing I did with the config files would actually make them _do_ anything. That sent me back to powermated, but obviously that's not going to work quite as well with a new device. I've never tried evrouter, and it seems unwise to start when it appears abandoned. But I'm less than inspired by gizmod too. gizmod is available as a Debian package, evrouter isn't. xev shows most of the buttons on the Xpress do nothing at all by default, and those that do something are hard to map because they're indistinguishable from mouse button clicks. Does anyone have experience with gizmod or the Shuttle Xpress under Linux? Thanks. If I've failed to provide needed information, let me know. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists