From lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug  1 16:31:35 2009
From: lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Julian C. Dunn)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:31:35 -0400
Subject: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f0907301512p62a7f171r7046b5ec11cec6b3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com> <d6d6637f0907301512p62a7f171r7046b5ec11cec6b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP230E77532ADB848568F697A3110@phx.gbl>

Looks like they've resolved their differences:

"The CentOS Development team had a routine meeting today with Lance 
Davis in attendance. During the meeting a majority of issues were 
resolved immediately and a working agreement was reached with deadlines 
for remaining unresolved issues. There should be no impact to any CentOS 
users going forward.

The CentOS project is now in control of the CentOS.org and CentOS.info 
domains and owns all trademarks, materials, and artwork in the CentOS 
distributions.

We look forward to working with Lance to quickly complete all the agreed 
upon issues.

More information will follow soon.

Original Letter <http://www.centos.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=381>

Last Update: August 1, 2009 04:34 UTC by Donavan Nelson "

- Julian
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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug  1 17:23:25 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:23:25 -0400
Subject: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP230E77532ADB848568F697A3110-MsuGFMq8XAE@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com>
	 <d6d6637f0907301512p62a7f171r7046b5ec11cec6b3@mail.gmail.com>
	 <BLU0-SMTP230E77532ADB848568F697A3110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908011023i110718ch7b4664f4eb3495f7@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Julian C. Dunn<lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Looks like they've resolved their differences:
>
> "The CentOS Development team had a routine meeting today with Lance Davis in
> attendance. During the meeting a majority of issues were resolved
> immediately and a working agreement was reached with deadlines for remaining
> unresolved issues. There should be no impact to any CentOS users going
> forward.
>
> The CentOS project is now in control of the CentOS.org and CentOS.info
> domains and owns all trademarks, materials, and artwork in the CentOS
> distributions.
>
> We look forward to working with Lance to quickly complete all the agreed
> upon issues.
>
> More information will follow soon.
>
> Original Letter <http://www.centos.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=381>
>
> Last Update: August 1, 2009 04:34 UTC by Donavan Nelson "
>
> - Julian

I am just happy to hear Lance didn't get hit by a bus =) and
difference have been resolved!
-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
--
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug  1 18:39:20 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 14:39:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: free antiques
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908011439070.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com>

I have a large collection of old computer artifacts.  I'm going to get
rid of some of them.  I hate to throw things out (that's one reason I
have a large collection).

Does anyone know of a local forum for people who might be interested in
old computer stuff?  Freecycle doesn't count, but I'll use it as a
last resort.

Here are some things I'm deaccessioning now:

1) a complete set of old SunOS 4.1 manuals.  Paper.
>From 1990.  Perhaps a couple of metres of shelf space.


2) a pair of Small Form Factor DEC 60MHz Pentium computers.  A matched
pair, except one has the infamous FDIV bug and the other does not.  I
think that these computers were made in Canada.  They ran Linux when I
last used they don't have enough RAM for current general purpose
distros.

Intel offered to replace CPUs with the FDIV bug, with no specified
time limit.  It might be fun to ask to have the buggy Pentium 60
replaced -- I wonder if they have any left.  On the other hand, the
FDIV bug is a classic and it might be nice to have a CPU with it.


3) Still more old PCs: an AST Bravo SFF Pentium 100 and AST Bravo SFF
Pentium 90.  They also ran Linux.


Anyone interested?
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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug  2 04:00:50 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 00:00:50 -0400
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues, does this mean carbon composite has issues?
Message-ID: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

 I thought this would be interesting to share, just in case someone here has
interest in airliner manufacturing. It seems the new composite wings failed
to hold 150% of the maximum operating load. Now, my question is, is this
under performance a design over sight or does this imply carbon composite
properties are not as solid as they have been sold out to be?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/boeingaerospace/2009565319_boeing30.html

Anyway, this may be interesting to follow.

Regards,

William
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug  2 05:48:14 2009
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 01:48:14 -0400
Subject: P1 128RAM
In-Reply-To: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090802054814.GA24726@waltdnes.org>

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:49:11AM +0200, edward chin wrote
> Does anyone have any recent experience with a distro on something
> this old?  There are lots of suggestions on fora like DSL, Puppy,
> Deli, and even Mepis 6.5 (I've been unable to locate an iso even at
> their site - it bounces to 8.0.06).  Most posts say stay away from
> DSL. I tried two v of Puppy but can't get it to run on this box.
> I'm sending this post from the box cited using Knoppix 3.2, but the
> video output is poor.
> 
> The box is from ACER MMX 233

  I had a 1999 Dell that died in the summer of 2007 (two years ago).  It
had 128 megs of RAM, a 450 mhz PIII, and an 8 meg video card.  Towards
the end it was doing great for most stuff, but internet TV was dropping
frames, and editing 2560x1920 photos with GIMP was "rather liesurely".

  I was running Gentoo linux on it.  Sure cpu-specific optimization
helps, but it could have been any other distro.  The real secret is the
desktop environment... or lack thereof.  Don't even *THINK* about GNOME
or KDE.  Even XFCE is probably too heavy.  Use Blackbox or Fluxbox as
the WM (Window Manager) with any modern distro, and you'll be OK, but
slow.  Don't expect icons or fancy program launchers.  I cobbled
together a simple program launcher with hardly any overhead.

  Re your video problem, can you sudo and run the command

lspci -v

...and post the portion of the output relating to your video card card?
In my case, it's...


02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 PRO]
(rev 01) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
        Subsystem: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 PRO]
        Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 21
        Memory at d0000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M]
        I/O ports at cc00 [size=256]
        Memory at fdef0000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K]
        [virtual] Expansion ROM at fde00000 [disabled] [size=128K]
        Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2


-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug  2 12:57:19 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:57:19 -0400
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues, does this mean carbon composite
 has issues?
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A758D2F.9070901@rogers.com>

William Muriithi wrote:
> Hi,
>
>  I thought this would be interesting to share, just in case someone
> here has interest in airliner manufacturing. It seems the new
> composite wings failed to hold 150% of the maximum operating load.
> Now, my question is, is this under performance a design over sight or
> does this imply carbon composite properties are not as solid as they
> have been sold out to be?
>
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/boeingaerospace/2009565319_boeing30.html
>

I's suspect an engineering issue.  Carbon composites have been in use
for many years, so a generic flaw is unlikely.
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From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug  2 21:54:37 2009
From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 17:54:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908011023i110718ch7b4664f4eb3495f7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com>  <d6d6637f0907301512p62a7f171r7046b5ec11cec6b3@mail.gmail.com>  <BLU0-SMTP230E77532ADB848568F697A3110@phx.gbl> <a05162a70908011023i110718ch7b4664f4eb3495f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908021753000.22887@imac2006.local>

On Sat, 1 Aug 2009, Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> I am just happy to hear Lance didn't get hit by a bus =) and 
> difference have been resolved!

Hear! Hear!

-- 
    ____  ____  ____  ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo
   /___  /___/ /___/ /___      http://www.arifsaha.com/
  ____/ /     /   / ____/
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From mlists-qPBrPDIhiSIW5WPm/PVmQw at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug  3 06:20:05 2009
From: mlists-qPBrPDIhiSIW5WPm/PVmQw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 23:20:05 -0700
Subject: P1 128RAM
In-Reply-To: <20090802054814.GA24726-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c@mail.gmail.com> <20090802054814.GA24726@waltdnes.org>
Message-ID: <20090803062004.GA23701@precious>

On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 01:48:14AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   I had a 1999 Dell that died in the summer of 2007 (two years ago).  It
> had 128 megs of RAM, a 450 mhz PIII, and an 8 meg video card.  Towards
> the end it was doing great for most stuff, but internet TV was dropping
> frames, and editing 2560x1920 photos with GIMP was "rather liesurely".
> 
>   I was running Gentoo linux on it.  Sure cpu-specific optimization
> helps, but it could have been any other distro.  The real secret is the
> desktop environment... or lack thereof.  Don't even *THINK* about GNOME
> or KDE.  Even XFCE is probably too heavy.  Use Blackbox or Fluxbox as
> the WM (Window Manager) with any modern distro, and you'll be OK, but
> slow.  Don't expect icons or fancy program launchers.  I cobbled
> together a simple program launcher with hardly any overhead.
> 
>   Re your video problem, can you sudo and run the command
> 
> lspci -v
> 
> ...and post the portion of the output relating to your video card card?
> In my case, it's...
> 
> 
> 02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 PRO]
> (rev 01) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
>         Subsystem: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 PRO]
>         Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 21
>         Memory at d0000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M]
>         I/O ports at cc00 [size=256]
>         Memory at fdef0000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K]
>         [virtual] Expansion ROM at fde00000 [disabled] [size=128K]
>         Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2
> 
> 
> -- 
> Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>

* If a 'modern' distro is going to be used on an old Pentium I system,
then he'll need to use an 'alternate' install CD as opposed to the
livecd installs.

* I would suggest rolling your own kernel. Even though modern distros
try to cover all bases by just compiling a million things as modules,
some of those modules are loaded by default, whether you want them or
not. (Case in point: When I insert the kernel AES modules in Ubuntu to
mount my secure swap space, I get a couple of error messages about
modules that were not able to load. Tracking these down I found out that
they are modules for embedded crypto chips on Via Nano/etc
miniITX/nanoITX boards. The reason that I'm getting errors is that they
are installed be default and try to load when the kernel AES modules are
loaded, and fail when they can't communicate with the hardware they are
for... If these modules were able to load without the hardware being
present I would have irrelavent modules taking up memory space)

* Debian (as already suggested) or Slackware would probably be good
choices though Debian is probably the easier choice.
You'd definitely have to use 'alternate' install CDs for most distros
out there nowadays. I would probably suggest even rolling your own
kernel so that you only are using what you need. Most common 'modern'
distros have tons of crap compiled in or set to load as default modules
that you probably don't need to make that bad boy run.



-- 
Brandon Sandrowicz
--
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From mlists-qPBrPDIhiSIW5WPm/PVmQw at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug  3 06:58:57 2009
From: mlists-qPBrPDIhiSIW5WPm/PVmQw at public.gmane.org (Brandon Sandrowicz)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 23:58:57 -0700
Subject: spam from cg.ca
In-Reply-To: <4A6F38FA.7080604-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <1248799065.8126.155.camel@cougar-hardy> <7c50d3570907280954s2b3e20bfyb930ce5d06d38651@mail.gmail.com> <4A6F3168.1080904@moores.ca> <4A6F33C2.70802@telly.org> <4A6F38FA.7080604@moores.ca>
Message-ID: <20090803065857.GB23701@precious>

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 01:44:26PM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote:
> I'm yet to be convinced of this. What are they? We have a land registry
> so anyone with a few bucks can find out who the owners are of any piece
> of real estate.
> 
> True, your car ownership is generally private, but your telephone number
> is not unless you pay extra for that privilege.
> 
> What is the rational for keeping this private?

I can think of a number of reasons. First and foremost if you are
hosting a domain that will be used in a way that might prompt people to
want to come after you. Like a forum for battered women, which might
draw the ire of an abusive boyfriend/husband/lover trying to find out
where 'his woman' his hiding.

Think of it another way. Take 4chan.org for instance. To my knowledge
not many (if any) people know the true identity of 'moot' the owner. He
was interviewed for Time magazine and the Washington Post, and they're
not even sure if the name he gave them is real [1]. Can you imagine the
number of people that would like to show up at moot's real doorstep?
Some might just want to take hime out for a beer, while others will
probably want to firebomb his house (much like the 'pro-life' crazies
that bomb abortion clinics).

You're still required to register your real information with the
registrar, it's just a matter of whether or not the public has access to
your info. Or in the case of those 'proxy' services, they have your real
info and just forward on any communications that come to the whois
entry's email/address.

> Put the onus on the other foot and ask why it should be made public?
> Fair enough. At times I've wanted to know what country a particular
> website worked in, which is a fair question in many circumstances. I've
> wanted to contact the owner when neither neither the website was up to
> date or even the CRIA database. (It's amazing what you can discover by
> doing a little bit of cross referencing.)

If the matter is really important, I'm sure you could implore the CRIA
to at least forward on a message from you to the registrant.

> Given that the purpose of a domain name is as a medium to communicate to
> the public, does the public not have some right right to know who it is
> they are communicating with?

A domain WHOIS entry is not a authenticator of indentity.

> If you really want to hide your identity, there are still ways of doing
> it with rented servers, virtual domains, and dynamic DNS, so those that
> really insist upon anonymity can still have it, but in general the
> public's right to know who they are dealing with is met.

How so? How is Dynamic DNS any different than an actual DNS entry with
no public contact information? If I used Dynamic DNS to present my
website to the world, then how does this jive with your statement above
about the public having a right to know who they are communicating with?

You're saying that the public has a right to know who you are, but then
you are saying that you can just use other ways to anonymize yourself.
If your argument is that the public has a right to know, then shouldn't
_any_ form of anonymizing yourself be against that view? Assuming that
they both offer equivalent anonymity, why would one method be any worse
than another?

On that note, how does a rented server and/or virtual domains help
anything if my WHOIS entry has my name, address, email, and phone number
in it?

> As well, we have reverse whois which will tell you who owns a particular
> set of IP numbers. These have not been made private? So what the
> difference between reverse IP, and reverse telephone numbers vs domain
> names? Very little that I can see.

Reverse IP lookup just tells you the hosting company. Most people don't
purchase blocks of IPs under their name. Just in the same way that a
reverse lookup on my home IP will only give you my ISP, not me. Even if I
was paying my ISP for a static IP, to my knowledge reverse IP lookup
just shows who owns the IP block, not who is leasing a particular IP
from the block owner.


[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moot_(4chan)#moot.27s_ident
-- 
Brandon Sandrowicz

email:  bsandrow-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
cell:   +1 503 481 3865
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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug  3 13:37:30 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:37:30 -0400
Subject: OT: Apple tried to silence owner of exploding iPod with gagging order
Message-ID: <a9f5a98057ebfa563c870a2d962f9b9b@teksavvy.com>

Apple attempted to silence a father and daughter with a gagging order after the child?s iPod music player exploded and the family sought a refund from the company.

The Times has learnt that the company would offer the family a full refund only if they were willing to sign a settlement form. The proposed agreement left them open to legal action if they ever disclosed the terms of the settlement.

The case echoes previous circumstances in which Apple attempted to hush up incidents when its devices overheated.

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/personal_tech/article6736587.ece
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From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug  3 13:56:19 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:56:19 -0400
Subject: OT: Apple tried to silence owner of exploding iPod with 
	gagging order
In-Reply-To: <a9f5a98057ebfa563c870a2d962f9b9b-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <a9f5a98057ebfa563c870a2d962f9b9b@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908030656q2257dd9bxcd6b12ce80a9c11c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 09:37, meng<meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Apple attempted to silence a father and daughter with a gagging order after the child?s iPod music player exploded and the family sought a refund from the company.
>
> The Times has learnt that the company would offer the family a full refund only if they were willing to sign a settlement form. The proposed agreement left them open to legal action if they ever disclosed the terms of the settlement.
>
> The case echoes previous circumstances in which Apple attempted to hush up incidents when its devices overheated.
>
> http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/personal_tech/article6736587.ece
> --


I just read the article about 2hrs ago, got love Apple, wonder what
they're going to try next.


-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
--
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From pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug  3 15:19:42 2009
From: pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Pete Lancashire)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:19:42 -0700
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues,
  does this mean carbon composite has issues?
In-Reply-To: <4A758D2F.9070901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com>
    <4A758D2F.9070901@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel@petelancashire.com>

Large dynamic CC assembles are still very hard to work with, and
don't behave well.

The general feeling around some of my friends in Seattle is Boeing
did not do what Boeing would have done in the past, extensive
testing vs today relying on CAE.

"The computer (program) said the thing was strong enough so it must
be".

-pete Son of former Arrow structural/mechanical engineer



> William Muriithi wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>  I thought this would be interesting to share, just in case someone
>> here has interest in airliner manufacturing. It seems the new
>> composite wings failed to hold 150% of the maximum operating load.
>> Now, my question is, is this under performance a design over sight or
>> does this imply carbon composite properties are not as solid as they
>> have been sold out to be?
>>
>> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/boeingaerospace/2009565319_boeing30.html
>>
>
> I's suspect an engineering issue.  Carbon composites have been in use
> for many years, so a generic flaw is unlikely.
> --
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From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug  3 15:36:34 2009
From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:36:34 +0400
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues,  does this mean carbon composite
 has issues?
In-Reply-To: <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com>    <4A758D2F.9070901@rogers.com> <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel@petelancashire.com>
Message-ID: <4A770402.1070908@gmail.com>

Pete Lancashire wrote:
> Large dynamic CC assembles are still very hard to work with, and
> don't behave well.
>
> The general feeling around some of my friends in Seattle is Boeing
> did not do what Boeing would have done in the past, extensive
> testing vs today relying on CAE.
>
> "The computer (program) said the thing was strong enough so it must
> be".
>
> -pete Son of former Arrow structural/mechanical engineer
>
>
>   

It seems that the memory of Arrow project still remains largely under 
the rag, anyway.

I have a friend who worked for many years in Bombardier in Toronto. He 
says that now, they take parts to assemble from manufactures in Mexico. 
He is an engineer. And he says that he never ever before saw so 
disastrous components to come to their factory.

So...

Actually, I never ever studied that problem myself. But... How it 
happened that Toronto factory fell into private hands?

zb/.





>   
>> William Muriithi wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>  I thought this would be interesting to share, just in case someone
>>> here has interest in airliner manufacturing. It seems the new
>>> composite wings failed to hold 150% of the maximum operating load.
>>> Now, my question is, is this under performance a design over sight or
>>> does this imply carbon composite properties are not as solid as they
>>> have been sold out to be?
>>>
>>> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/boeingaerospace/2009565319_boeing30.html
>>>
>>>       
>> I's suspect an engineering issue.  Carbon composites have been in use
>> for many years, so a generic flaw is unlikely.
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>
>>     
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
>   

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From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug  3 17:10:39 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:10:39 -0400
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues,  does this mean carbon composite
 has issues?
In-Reply-To: <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com>    <4A758D2F.9070901@rogers.com> <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel@petelancashire.com>
Message-ID: <4A771A0F.3050403@telly.org>

Pete Lancashire wrote:
> Large dynamic CC assembles are still very hard to work with, and
> don't behave well.
>
> The general feeling around some of my friends in Seattle is Boeing
> did not do what Boeing would have done in the past, extensive
> testing vs today relying on CAE.
>   
It's also my belief that the underlying politics of the manufacture --
that call for major component plants and jobs scattered all over the
world -- has made the process of completing the final assembly to be
orders of magnitude more difficult than if more of the work was done in
Washington State. It's my understanding that much of the wings and
forward part of the 787 are made and shipped over from Japan, the back
stabilizer comes from Italy, and other major parts (that require
absolute precision fits) come from elsewhere.

Airbus has had the same problems -- one plant was using a different
version of the design software than another, then they lost many months
recovering from the differences found when matching up the resulting
assemblies.

IMO, until proven otherwise, this is a supply chain fsckup at least as
much as anything attributable to the composition of the materials.

- Evan

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From pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug  3 17:39:50 2009
From: pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Pete Lancashire)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:39:50 -0700
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues,
   does this mean carbon composite has issues?
In-Reply-To: <4A771A0F.3050403-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com>
    <4A758D2F.9070901@rogers.com>
    <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel@petelancashire.com>
    <4A771A0F.3050403@telly.org>
Message-ID: <4284131d7f81e5c837b645c863fa1bca.squirrel@petelancashire.com>

I also agree. To the point where Boeing has had to buy out
some subcontractors. Not something they like to talk about.

The last number I remember is 70% of the 787 is sub'ed out.

Wikipedia has a pretty good break down

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787

-pete



> Pete Lancashire wrote:
>> Large dynamic CC assembles are still very hard to work with, and
>> don't behave well.
>>
>> The general feeling around some of my friends in Seattle is Boeing
>> did not do what Boeing would have done in the past, extensive
>> testing vs today relying on CAE.
>>
> It's also my belief that the underlying politics of the manufacture --
> that call for major component plants and jobs scattered all over the
> world -- has made the process of completing the final assembly to be
> orders of magnitude more difficult than if more of the work was done in
> Washington State. It's my understanding that much of the wings and
> forward part of the 787 are made and shipped over from Japan, the back
> stabilizer comes from Italy, and other major parts (that require
> absolute precision fits) come from elsewhere.
>
> Airbus has had the same problems -- one plant was using a different
> version of the design software than another, then they lost many months
> recovering from the differences found when matching up the resulting
> assemblies.
>
> IMO, until proven otherwise, this is a supply chain fsckup at least as
> much as anything attributable to the composition of the materials.
>
> - Evan
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug  3 18:13:02 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:13:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues,  does this mean carbon composite
 has issues?
In-Reply-To: <4A771A0F.3050403-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com>    <4A758D2F.9070901@rogers.com> <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel@petelancashire.com> <4A771A0F.3050403@telly.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908031359190.4110@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: Evan Leibovitch <evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org>

| It's also my belief that the underlying politics of the manufacture --
| that call for major component plants and jobs scattered all over the
| world --

You are surely right about the politics.  For example, all sorts of
Canadian contract call for "industrial offsets".  Part of this plane
is made in Toronto, possibly for this reason.

The Japanese government seems to have financed a lot of the 787
program, conditional on large Japanese component.

Maybe projects like this are so big that a single company cannot
sanely make the gamble.  In the past, US aerospace companies were
effectively subsidized by military contracts.

The whole US domination of passenger aircraft manufacture was at least
partially an accidental effect of WWII.  As I understand it, the
division of labour amongst had the UK building more fighters than
bombers by the end of the war.  Bombers were a better base for airline
manufacture.

Canada produced the second passenger jet plane, the Avro Jetliner.
Apparently a good one.  (The first passenger jet plane, the de
Haviland Comet, is famous for falling out of the sky due to metal
fatigue.)  The Canadian Government forced Avro to drop the Jetliner to
concentrate on military production (CF100?  I don't remember), 

| has made the process of completing the final assembly to be
| orders of magnitude more difficult than if more of the work was done in
| Washington State.

We old fogies always think that the old ways were better.  These new
systems are probably so much more complicated and intricate that the
old ways can no longer be applied.

| IMO, until proven otherwise, this is a supply chain fsckup at least as
| much as anything attributable to the composition of the materials.

We'll never know.  We'll be told a bunch of myths, official and
unofficial, and have no way of knowing which is right.

If the new production methods allowed for everything to be
second-sourced, that would increase reliability and predictability of
the supply chain.  But redundancy costs and nobody is buying it.
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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug  3 18:20:00 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:20:00 -0400
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues, does this mean carbon composite 
	has issues?
In-Reply-To: <4A771A0F.3050403-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A758D2F.9070901@rogers.com>
	 <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel@petelancashire.com>
	 <4A771A0F.3050403@telly.org>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908031120o6e43033cg775ceee9479a1b99@mail.gmail.com>

>
> >
> > The general feeling around some of my friends in Seattle is Boeing
> > did not do what Boeing would have done in the past, extensive
> > testing vs today relying on CAE.
> >
>
Hmm, which would be a little unsettling considering the magnitude of error
here. It begs the question, can we assume that there are errors somewhere
else yet to be discovered. Hope this do not end up being another DC 10
fiasco.

>
> It's also my belief that the underlying politics of the manufacture --
> that call for major component plants and jobs scattered all over the
> world -- has made the process of completing the final assembly to be
> orders of magnitude more difficult than if more of the work was done in
> Washington State. It's my understanding that much of the wings and
> forward part of the 787 are made and shipped over from Japan, the back
> stabilizer comes from Italy, and other major parts (that require
> absolute precision fits) come from elsewhere.


Welcome to the world of compromise!

>
>
> Airbus has had the same problems -- one plant was using a different
> version of the design software than another, then they lost many months
> recovering from the differences found when matching up the resulting
> assemblies.


Agree, A380 issues was somehow related to developing pieces of the plane
from both Germany and France. However, this would not have occurred were
both side using the same software vendor.  This begs the question, is it the
geography or the software politics that came in the way of A380? I tend to
think its the later.

>
>
> IMO, until proven otherwise, this is a supply chain fsckup at least as
> much as anything attributable to the composition of the materials.
>

Evan, the parts did fit in properly. Its just that, the complete system
started breaking up earlier. Why did you arrive with that conclusion?

>
> - Evan
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug  3 23:53:39 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:53:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: P1 128RAM
In-Reply-To: <20090730141900.GP2989-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c@mail.gmail.com> <20090730141900.GP2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908031949230.4110@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>

| Debian would run just fine.  It runs fine on my 48M 486/66.

According to
  http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch03s04.html.en
Debian stable can run on as little as 48M.

Too bad for me.  I'm getting rid of four old PCs that have 32M each.
They have run old RedHat Linux, but I guess modern Linux is out of the
question.
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 00:28:26 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:28:26 -0400
Subject: P1 128RAM
Message-ID: <4f7ea7965d4102792791553badc5399c@teksavvy.com>


-----Original message-----
From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier" hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:53:39 -0400
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: P1 128RAM

> | From: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>
> 
> | Debian would run just fine.  It runs fine on my 48M 486/66.
> 
> According to
>   http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch03s04.html.en
> Debian stable can run on as little as 48M.
> 
> Too bad for me.  I'm getting rid of four old PCs that have 32M each.
> They have run old RedHat Linux, but I guess modern Linux is out of the
> question.

Can't you get the RAM required?
What kind of RAM is needed?

> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 01:00:50 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:00:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: P1 128RAM
In-Reply-To: <4f7ea7965d4102792791553badc5399c-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <4f7ea7965d4102792791553badc5399c@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908032038100.4110@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: meng <meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org>

| Can't you get the RAM required?
| What kind of RAM is needed?

I don't actually remember.  72 PIN SIMMs.  Two slots.  Each occupied
by 16M sticks.  Limitations on memory upgrades are not well explained.
Sure, we know about speeds, but the number of refresh lines never
seem to be spelled out.

To be honest, these boxes are not actually worth any work to save.  I
just hate the waste.  But not enough to use one of these as my desktop
machine!  (I last used them as security gateways, but I've had newer
old machines performing the same function for years now.)

People are throwing out a lot more powerful machines.  New machines
cost a small fraction of what these cost when new.

BTW, I am hoarding even older machines, but ones that are more
interesting than PCs.  My two faourites: an Altair 8800A and a Nabu
1600.
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 01:23:57 2009
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:23:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: P1 128RAM
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908032038100.4110-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <4f7ea7965d4102792791553badc5399c@teksavvy.com>
    <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908032038100.4110@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <7969.99.253.254.243.1249349037.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca>


> BTW, I am hoarding even older machines, but ones that are more
> interesting than PCs.  My two faourites: an Altair 8800A and a Nabu
> 1600.

I recollect that the York University computer museum was doing some sort
of research project on nabu networking. They might be interested in your
hardware.

http://www.cse.yorku.ca/museum/about/about.htm

-- 
Peter Hiscocks
Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto
http://www.syscompdesign.com
USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator
647-839-0325

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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 01:28:40 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:28:40 -0400
Subject: P1 128RAM
Message-ID: <ab4770c311261395b9d5f56007e818c6@teksavvy.com>


-----Original message-----
From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier" hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:00:50 -0400
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: P1 128RAM

> | From: meng <meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org>
> 
> | Can't you get the RAM required?
> | What kind of RAM is needed?
> 
> I don't actually remember.  72 PIN SIMMs.  Two slots.  Each occupied
> by 16M sticks.  Limitations on memory upgrades are not well explained.
> Sure, we know about speeds, but the number of refresh lines never
> seem to be spelled out.

The reason I asked was I have 2 sticks of 128M PC133 RAM that I have no use for.

> To be honest, these boxes are not actually worth any work to save.  I
> just hate the waste.  But not enough to use one of these as my desktop
> machine!  (I last used them as security gateways, but I've had newer
> old machines performing the same function for years now.)
> 
> People are throwing out a lot more powerful machines.  New machines
> cost a small fraction of what these cost when new.

Yes, I recently upgraded the RAM on a 800MHz Celeron and then the power supply died.
It's not worth replacing the power supply; what will go next?

> BTW, I am hoarding even older machines, but ones that are more
> interesting than PCs.  My two faourites: an Altair 8800A and a Nabu
> 1600.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 01:40:18 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:40:18 -0400
Subject: Sandia computer scientists successfully boot one million Linux 
	kernels as virtual machines
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908031840j4add7d0dp922a677812f60cf4@mail.gmail.com>

Here's an interesting article:

(Media-Newswire.com) - LIVERMORE, Calif. ? Computer scientists at
Sandia National Laboratories in Livermore, Calif., have for the first
time successfully demonstrated the ability to run more than a million
Linux kernels as virtual machines.

The achievement will allow cyber security researchers to more
effectively observe behavior found in malicious botnets, or networks
of infected machines that can operate on the scale of a million nodes.
Botnets, said Sandia?s Ron Minnich, are often difficult to analyze
since they are geographically spread all over the world.

Sandia scientists used virtual machine ( VM ) technology and the power
of its Thunderbird supercomputing cluster for the demonstration.

Running a high volume of VMs on one supercomputer ? at a similar scale
as a botnet ? would allow cyber researchers to watch how botnets work
and explore ways to stop them in their tracks. ?We can get control at
a level we never had before,? said Minnich.

Previously, Minnich said, researchers had only been able to run up to
20,000 kernels concurrently ( a ?kernel? is the central component of
most computer operating systems ). The more kernels that can be run at
once, he said, the more effective cyber security professionals can be
in combating the global botnet problem. ?Eventually, we would like to
be able to emulate the computer network of a small nation, or even one
as large as the United States, in order to ?virtualize? and monitor a
cyber attack,? he said.

A related use for millions to tens of millions of operating systems,
Sandia?s researchers suggest, is to construct high-fidelity models of
parts of the Internet.

?The sheer size of the Internet makes it very difficult to understand
in even a limited way,? said Minnich. ?Many phenomena occurring on the
Internet are poorly understood, because we lack the ability to model
it adequately. By running actual operating system instances to
represent nodes on the Internet, we will be able not just to simulate
the functioning of the Internet at the network level, but to emulate
Internet functionality.?

Full article: http://media-newswire.com/release_1095644.html

-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
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From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 02:21:37 2009
From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400
Subject: About Tuesday's Talk
In-Reply-To: <4A5E31C0.4030102-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A5E31C0.4030102@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <4A779B31.8090104@totaltravelmarketing.com>

Ivan Avery Frey wrote:
> There is a way to get Windows clients to authenticate against an
> openldap-kerberos setup that was described in Tuesday's talk. It's call
> pGina and here is a link:
> 
> http://www.pgina.org/?page_id=3
> 
> Ansar Mohammed first pointed to this in a presentation at NewTLUG.
> 
> Ivan.
> --
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> 
Hi

is there any online notes, I missed this conference and I would like to 
get some info about this topic

Thanks
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From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 03:01:34 2009
From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 23:01:34 -0400
Subject: Speakers and topics
Message-ID: <a768be480908032001o2b069218u20fe0f517b778595@mail.gmail.com>

Any volunteers to speak at the next meetings?

Any requests for topics to inspire a volunteer speaker?

11 August
08 September
13 October
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 03:12:41 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 23:12:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: P1 128RAM
In-Reply-To: <ab4770c311261395b9d5f56007e818c6-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <ab4770c311261395b9d5f56007e818c6@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908032237090.4110@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: meng <meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org>

| The reason I asked was I have 2 sticks of 128M PC133 RAM that I have no use for.

I'm sure that those won't work.  Thanks for the offer!

PC133 desktop memory is SDRAM, in 168-pin DIMM packaging.

I need EDO DRAM in 72-pin SIMM packaging.

Oh, and later PC133 DIMMS often didn't work in machines designed for
PC100 even though both come in the same packaging.  Vendors always
said the reason was that PC133 was "too fast" for PC100 circuits, but
that was nonsense.

It had something to do with the memory address bits that I never truly
figured out.  Words like "rank" or "bank" come into this, or whether
the module is single or double-sided (I don't think that that actually
means whether there are chips on both sides).

In theory, addressing a memory location on a DIMM involves an address,
passed in two steps, on the same wires: the row number, then the colum
number.  Then there is the chip-select line(s) (since the chips are on a
bus, sharing wires, chip select is needed to specify which chips are
to answer).

As memory gets more dense, the number of bits that are needed for the
row and column addresses needs to increase (the number of rows is
usually the same as the number of rows, or very close).  Sadly, the
memory controller makers don't provide for much future growth thus
promoting obsolesence.

| ... I recently upgraded the RAM on a 800MHz Celeron and then the power supply died.
| It's not worth replacing the power supply; what will go next?

If the power supply is generic then you might find a spare one.  I
would expect that replacing the power supply would have a great chance
of letting the machine work for another few years (until it is no use
to you).

But it's up to you how much you value your time.  Any careful
calculation shows fiddling with these things is a losing proposition.
Unless, perhaps, it saves you the trouble of buying a new machine
and setting it up (unlikely).
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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 03:34:05 2009
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 23:34:05 -0400
Subject: P1 128RAM
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908031949230.4110-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090730141900.GP2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	<alpine.LRH.2.00.0908031949230.4110@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <20090803233405.2c75fc65.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:53:39 -0400 (EDT)
"D. Hugh Redelmeier" <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> | From: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>
> 
> | Debian would run just fine.  It runs fine on my 48M 486/66.
> 
> According to
>   http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch03s04.html.en
> Debian stable can run on as little as 48M.

   My Pentium II/350 was up to 636MB when I retired it last year.  The OS may run at 48MB, but Open Office does not, and I am not sure the browsers do anymore, either.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 04:56:57 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 00:56:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Slowing Linux to a crawl
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907302332120.3868-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1f13df280907281857n470b2ce0t236c5a2f4ca9456@mail.gmail.com>  <3a97ef0907291446u740e86dbi47f36a922060afdd@mail.gmail.com>  <20090730142047.GQ2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>  <1f13df280907300813t29ae8b8dx6ac194be58b6365a@mail.gmail.com> 
 <3a97ef0907300852uc97da83he358b3f4b1eb066f@mail.gmail.com> <1f13df280907301946x309c0d3ara1c7052262484c10@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907302332120.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908032351170.4110@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>

| It appears as if BASH uses 64-bit evaluation, so there appears to be
| no immediate danger.

I just booted another old box (see other threads).  It has RHL 7.0 with
BASH 2.04.11.  This BASH uses 32-bit evaluation.  With no reporting of
overflow (conforming to the manual, but I think that this is
unfortunate).
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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 05:19:06 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:19:06 -0400
Subject: P1 128RAM
Message-ID: <e488caae947c435ee2db800c9ce86d31@teksavvy.com>


-----Original message-----
From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier" hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:12:41 -0400
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: P1 128RAM

> | From: meng <meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org>
> | ... I recently upgraded the RAM on a 800MHz Celeron and then the power supply died.
> | It's not worth replacing the power supply; what will go next?
> 
> If the power supply is generic then you might find a spare one.  I
> would expect that replacing the power supply would have a great chance
> of letting the machine work for another few years (until it is no use
> to you).
> 
> But it's up to you how much you value your time.  Any careful
> calculation shows fiddling with these things is a losing proposition.
> Unless, perhaps, it saves you the trouble of buying a new machine
> and setting it up (unlikely).

Agreed :-)

> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 08:05:05 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 04:05:05 -0400
Subject: creating a ramdrive
Message-ID: <a05162a70908040105g531b1619o409684c5d7d38219@mail.gmail.com>

How to I create a ram drive and specify size, let say 6 MB?

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 09:01:16 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 05:01:16 -0400
Subject: creating a ramdrive
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908040105g531b1619o409684c5d7d38219-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908040105g531b1619o409684c5d7d38219@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908040201u3874f4b2xe90fde03a320088b@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:05 AM, Rajinder Yadav<devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> How to I create a ram drive and specify size, let say 6 MB?

ok I just figured out how to create and use a loopback filesystem, i
just want to know if it's also possible to create a mountable
filesystem in RAM, and how do I go about doing this?

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
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From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 10:40:29 2009
From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:40:29 +0400
Subject: colors in EPS imported by LaTeX
Message-ID: <4A78101D.1010904@gmail.com>

gnuplot is a nice tool for creating not too complex figures from 
scientific data.

BTW, does anyone know another open source tool that could be used on 
Linux instead of gnuplot?

BTW2, does there exist a not too complex graphics program that would 
allow to create drawings in EPS format? I have in mind drawings that 
could illustrate certain technical details of various processes in 
physics. Like, for instance, a cross section of a mechanical device 
(drawing lines, circles, arrows, etc, adding text description). I do not 
need a CAD type of complexity.

gnuplot can export drawings into encapsulated postscript (EPS) files 
that next could be imported into LaTeX. Figures displayed in gnuplot 
window are usually colorful. However, when they are exported into EPS 
files, the color information is missed. I want to finally have colors in 
PDF created from LaTeX.

I know that there is a way to edit by hand EPS files and add there color 
table. However, I can not find that information by googling.

Anyone willing to advise if the method is not too complex?

zb.
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 13:12:53 2009
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 06:12:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: creating a ramdrive
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908040201u3874f4b2xe90fde03a320088b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908040201u3874f4b2xe90fde03a320088b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <793062.61379.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Try "tmpfs".

--- On Tue, 8/4/09, Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> From: Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: creating a ramdrive
> To: "[TLUG]" <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> Received: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 5:01 AM
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:05 AM,
> Rajinder Yadav<devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
> > How to I create a ram drive and specify size, let say
> 6 MB?
> 
> ok I just figured out how to create and use a loopback
> filesystem, i
> just want to know if it's also possible to create a
> mountable
> filesystem in RAM, and how do I go about doing this?
> 
> -- 
> Kind Regards,
> Rajinder Yadav
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ?
> Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80
> columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> 


      __________________________________________________________________
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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 13:12:20 2009
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:12:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: colors in EPS imported by LaTeX
In-Reply-To: <4A78101D.1010904-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A78101D.1010904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4113.99.253.254.243.1249391540.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca>

You can export the graph from gnuplot in 'fig' format, which can be
imported into Xfig.

Then you can edited and colour the graph in Xfig. For example, you can
change the fonts on the axis labels.

Then export from xfig as EPS, which maintains the colours.

Here's an example of exporting from gnuplot to fig format:
-----------------------------------
#List of commands to plot a typical MOSFET transfer characteristic
Idss = 20
Vp = 3
set terminal fig
set output "mosfet-equation.fig"
set xlabel "Vgs"
set ylabel "Id"
set nologscale y
set nologscale x
plot [0:3] Idss*(x/Vp)**2
set terminal x11
replot
pause -1

-- 
Peter Hiscocks
Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto
http://www.syscompdesign.com
USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator
647-839-0325


> gnuplot is a nice tool for creating not too complex figures from
> scientific data.
>
> BTW, does anyone know another open source tool that could be used on
> Linux instead of gnuplot?
>
> BTW2, does there exist a not too complex graphics program that would
> allow to create drawings in EPS format? I have in mind drawings that
> could illustrate certain technical details of various processes in
> physics. Like, for instance, a cross section of a mechanical device
> (drawing lines, circles, arrows, etc, adding text description). I do not
> need a CAD type of complexity.
>
> gnuplot can export drawings into encapsulated postscript (EPS) files
> that next could be imported into LaTeX. Figures displayed in gnuplot
> window are usually colorful. However, when they are exported into EPS
> files, the color information is missed. I want to finally have colors in
> PDF created from LaTeX.
>
> I know that there is a way to edit by hand EPS files and add there color
> table. However, I can not find that information by googling.
>
> Anyone willing to advise if the method is not too complex?
>
> zb.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>




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From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 13:36:42 2009
From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:36:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: colors in EPS imported by LaTeX
In-Reply-To: <4A78101D.1010904-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A78101D.1010904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908040927430.4370@doublethink>

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote:

> I know that there is a way to edit by hand EPS files and add there color
> table. However, I can not find that information by googling.

   Put this where you want colour: 

RED GREEN BLUE setrgbcolor

   RED, GREEN, and BLUE are numbers between 0 and 1.

0 0 0 setrgbcolor  % black
1 1 1 setrgbcolor  % white
1 0 0 setrgbcolor  % red

-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
   ===================================================================
   Author:
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 14:11:02 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 07:11:02 -0700
Subject: creating a ramdrive
In-Reply-To: <793062.61379.qm-Y34AK2gV3GyORdMXk8NaZPu2YVrzzGjVVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908040201u3874f4b2xe90fde03a320088b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <793062.61379.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908040711k51cc5f80s8841037f26488a24@mail.gmail.com>

According to here, you would use "-o size=6M" for a 6MB ramdisk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMPFS

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, William Park<opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Try "tmpfs".
>
> --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> From: Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
>> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: creating a ramdrive
>> To: "[TLUG]" <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
>> Received: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 5:01 AM
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:05 AM,
>> Rajinder Yadav<devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
>> wrote:
>> > How to I create a ram drive and specify size, let say
>> 6 MB?
>>
>> ok I just figured out how to create and use a loopback
>> filesystem, i
>> just want to know if it's also possible to create a
>> mountable
>> filesystem in RAM, and how do I go about doing this?
>>
>> --
>> Kind Regards,
>> Rajinder Yadav
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.
>> Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80
>> columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>
>
>
> ? ? ?__________________________________________________________________
> Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer? 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>



-- 
Tyler Aviss
Systems Support
LPIC/LPIC-2
(778) 890-0942
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From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 15:31:30 2009
From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:31:30 -0400
Subject: Sandia computer scientists successfully boot one million 
	Linux kernels as virtual machines
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908031840j4add7d0dp922a677812f60cf4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908031840j4add7d0dp922a677812f60cf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1f13df280908040831r655838e0gd1bee2435b6fc25c@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/3 Michael Lauzon <mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>:
> Here's an interesting article:
>
> (Media-Newswire.com) - LIVERMORE, Calif. ? Computer scientists at
> Sandia National Laboratories in Livermore, Calif., have for the first
> time successfully demonstrated the ability to run more than a million
> Linux kernels as virtual machines.
>
> The achievement will allow cyber security researchers to more
> effectively observe behavior found in malicious botnets, or networks
> of infected machines that can operate on the scale of a million nodes.
> Botnets, said Sandia?s Ron Minnich, are often difficult to analyze
> since they are geographically spread all over the world.
>
> Sandia scientists used virtual machine ( VM ) technology and the power
> of its Thunderbird supercomputing cluster for the demonstration.
>
> Running a high volume of VMs on one supercomputer ? at a similar scale
> as a botnet ? would allow cyber researchers to watch how botnets work
> and explore ways to stop them in their tracks. ?We can get control at
> a level we never had before,? said Minnich.
>
> Previously, Minnich said, researchers had only been able to run up to
> 20,000 kernels concurrently ( a ?kernel? is the central component of
> most computer operating systems ). The more kernels that can be run at
> once, he said, the more effective cyber security professionals can be
> in combating the global botnet problem. ?Eventually, we would like to
> be able to emulate the computer network of a small nation, or even one
> as large as the United States, in order to ?virtualize? and monitor a
> cyber attack,? he said.
>
> A related use for millions to tens of millions of operating systems,
> Sandia?s researchers suggest, is to construct high-fidelity models of
> parts of the Internet.
>
> ?The sheer size of the Internet makes it very difficult to understand
> in even a limited way,? said Minnich. ?Many phenomena occurring on the
> Internet are poorly understood, because we lack the ability to model
> it adequately. By running actual operating system instances to
> represent nodes on the Internet, we will be able not just to simulate
> the functioning of the Internet at the network level, but to emulate
> Internet functionality.?
>
> Full article: http://media-newswire.com/release_1095644.html

But aren't most botnets composed primarily of Windows machines?  I
realize there's still plenty of value in this.  But I'm having trouble
imagining the cost of licensing a million copies of Windows ... not to
mention that MS would probably sue you if you publicized the results,
even if your million copies were legitimate.  Besides, MS wouldn't
allow you to make a reasonable mix: "I'll need 80,000 copies of
Windows 95, 20,000 copies of Windows ME, 700,000 copies of XP ..."

-- 
Giles
http://www.gilesorr.com/
gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
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From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 15:42:04 2009
From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:42:04 -0400
Subject: Sandia computer scientists successfully boot one million
 Linux kernels as virtual machines
In-Reply-To: <1f13df280908040831r655838e0gd1bee2435b6fc25c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908031840j4add7d0dp922a677812f60cf4@mail.gmail.com> <1f13df280908040831r655838e0gd1bee2435b6fc25c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7856CC.7070603@gmail.com>

Giles Orr wrote:
> 2009/8/3 Michael Lauzon <mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>:
>   
>> Here's an interesting article:
>>
>> (Media-Newswire.com) - LIVERMORE, Calif. ? Computer scientists at
>> Sandia National Laboratories in Livermore, Calif., have for the first
>> time successfully demonstrated the ability to run more than a million
>> Linux kernels as virtual machines.
>>
>> The achievement will allow cyber security researchers to more
>> effectively observe behavior found in malicious botnets, or networks
>> of infected machines that can operate on the scale of a million nodes.
>> Botnets, said Sandia?s Ron Minnich, are often difficult to analyze
>> since they are geographically spread all over the world.
>>
>> Sandia scientists used virtual machine ( VM ) technology and the power
>> of its Thunderbird supercomputing cluster for the demonstration.
>>
>> Running a high volume of VMs on one supercomputer ? at a similar scale
>> as a botnet ? would allow cyber researchers to watch how botnets work
>> and explore ways to stop them in their tracks. ?We can get control at
>> a level we never had before,? said Minnich.
>>
>> Previously, Minnich said, researchers had only been able to run up to
>> 20,000 kernels concurrently ( a ?kernel? is the central component of
>> most computer operating systems ). The more kernels that can be run at
>> once, he said, the more effective cyber security professionals can be
>> in combating the global botnet problem. ?Eventually, we would like to
>> be able to emulate the computer network of a small nation, or even one
>> as large as the United States, in order to ?virtualize? and monitor a
>> cyber attack,? he said.
>>
>> A related use for millions to tens of millions of operating systems,
>> Sandia?s researchers suggest, is to construct high-fidelity models of
>> parts of the Internet.
>>
>> ?The sheer size of the Internet makes it very difficult to understand
>> in even a limited way,? said Minnich. ?Many phenomena occurring on the
>> Internet are poorly understood, because we lack the ability to model
>> it adequately. By running actual operating system instances to
>> represent nodes on the Internet, we will be able not just to simulate
>> the functioning of the Internet at the network level, but to emulate
>> Internet functionality.?
>>
>> Full article: http://media-newswire.com/release_1095644.html
>>     
>
> But aren't most botnets composed primarily of Windows machines?  I
> realize there's still plenty of value in this.  But I'm having trouble
> imagining the cost of licensing a million copies of Windows ... not to
> mention that MS would probably sue you if you publicized the results,
> even if your million copies were legitimate.  Besides, MS wouldn't
> allow you to make a reasonable mix: "I'll need 80,000 copies of
> Windows 95, 20,000 copies of Windows ME, 700,000 copies of XP ..."
>
>   
First you wouldn't need to license a million copies as you can get a 
site license for windows.

Second, they only have to emulate the botnet behaviour not actually run 
any specific botnet code on windows. It's a lot easier to emulate 
network sockets in Linux than Windows. This also allows for testing of 
new exploits before worms using that exploit appear in the wild.
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From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 16:18:53 2009
From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:18:53 +0400
Subject: colors in EPS imported by LaTeX
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908040927430.4370@doublethink>
References: <4A78101D.1010904@gmail.com> <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908040927430.4370@doublethink>
Message-ID: <4A785F6D.9050007@gmail.com>

Thanks Peter and Chris. I have got some things working. A way to learn, 
but the beginning is always the most difficult.
I am amazed by how LaTeX and Postscript are tolerable to incorrect code. 
Well... at the same time that does not necessary make life  easier...

Regarding xfig, a few years ago I used to write perl scripts that would 
generate directely xfig format graphs (since xfig format is a plain 
ASCII) but I forget it now. Now, I am sure that it is possible to write 
by hand (or by perl) PS code that would generate nice, simple graphs. 
Someone send here an example some time ago, possibly Chris. Anyway, now 
I will be able to find out my way.

zb.

Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote:
>
>   
>> I know that there is a way to edit by hand EPS files and add there color
>> table. However, I can not find that information by googling.
>>     
>
>    Put this where you want colour: 
>
> RED GREEN BLUE setrgbcolor
>
>    RED, GREEN, and BLUE are numbers between 0 and 1.
>
> 0 0 0 setrgbcolor  % black
> 1 1 1 setrgbcolor  % white
> 1 0 0 setrgbcolor  % red
>
>   

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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 16:21:07 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:21:07 -0400
Subject: The Debian System book
Message-ID: <7776e6903d5597dd85553de08fd26e2c@teksavvy.com>

Has anyone read "The Debian System" by Martin F. Krafft, http://debiansystem.info/ ?
I'm wondering if it's worth getting, it's dated 2005 and covers "Sarge".

Or should I just stick with the Debian Reference manual, http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ ?
If it covers the same ground, I might as well refer to the online documentation.

Cheers

Meng

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From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 16:39:26 2009
From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:39:26 +0400
Subject: The Debian System book
In-Reply-To: <7776e6903d5597dd85553de08fd26e2c-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <7776e6903d5597dd85553de08fd26e2c@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <4A78643E.8070102@gmail.com>


Not directly related but... I have recently downloaded around 15 GB of 
hundreds of books on Physics and Mathematics by using torrent. Some are 
excellent, wonderful. Most of that are perfectly legal, some I am not 
entirely sure. I did not search for computer books but there is 
certainly a lot of them.

meng wrote:
> Has anyone read "The Debian System" by Martin F. Krafft, http://debiansystem.info/ ?
> I'm wondering if it's worth getting, it's dated 2005 and covers "Sarge".
>
> Or should I just stick with the Debian Reference manual, http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ ?
> If it covers the same ground, I might as well refer to the online documentation.
>
> Cheers
>
> Meng
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
>   

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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 17:50:00 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:50:00 -0400
Subject: Storage Area Network as a tlug meeting topic
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0904292338400.3549-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870904291529v75fd176bx1ed66d6fc69ec4e3@mail.gmail.com>
	 <alpine.LNX.2.00.0904292338400.3549@rosette.pegasoft.ca>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908041050u49efba93h276a2d96774476ab@mail.gmail.com>

Ken,

2009/4/29 Ken Burtch <ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>

>
> The SAN guy where I work says he might be interested in preparing a Linux
> SAN talk, if he's got time to prepare one.  Might need a little arm
> twisting.
>

How did the above go?  Do not get me wrong, I am not pestering, just a
polite follow up


Regards,

William

>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ken O. Burtch                                       Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848
>  "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash"                  Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
>  "Perl Phrasebook"                 Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 19:45:55 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:45:55 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
Message-ID: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>

Does anyone have experience or can recommend a good resource for
high-performance parallel programming?

Specifically, I have been asked to help one of my colleagues parallelize
a simulation.  Ideally I would like to be able to run it on many, many
Linux machines via Amazon Web Services or similar service, but it would
be great to maximize an arbitrary number of cores as well as
physical/virtual machines.  Thanks.
-- 

yours,

William

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From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 19:52:08 2009
From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:52:08 -0700
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <20090804194555.GA20889-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <7ac602420908041252g427a188ei14915828e2f80d1a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 12:45 PM, William O'Higgins
Witteman<william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Does anyone have experience or can recommend a good resource for
> high-performance parallel programming?
>
> Specifically, I have been asked to help one of my colleagues parallelize
> a simulation. ?Ideally I would like to be able to run it on many, many
> Linux machines via Amazon Web Services or similar service, but it would
> be great to maximize an arbitrary number of cores as well as
> physical/virtual machines. ?Thanks.

I'm not even close to an expert in this area but one thing I do know
is that optimizing for many cores in a shared-memory environment is a
completely different problem from optimization for many machines in a
shared-nothing environment.  "The grid" or "the cloud" is a whole
different world from "SMP".

Ian
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From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 20:39:28 2009
From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:39:28 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <7ac602420908041252g427a188ei14915828e2f80d1a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
	<7ac602420908041252g427a188ei14915828e2f80d1a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090804163928.0f69f69c@gravid>

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:52:08 -0700
Ian Petersen <ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 12:45 PM, William O'Higgins
> Witteman<william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Does anyone have experience or can recommend a good resource for
> > high-performance parallel programming?
> >
> > Specifically, I have been asked to help one of my colleagues
> > parallelize a simulation. ?Ideally I would like to be able to run
> > it on many, many Linux machines via Amazon Web Services or similar
> > service, but it would be great to maximize an arbitrary number of
> > cores as well as physical/virtual machines. ?Thanks.
> 
> I'm not even close to an expert in this area but one thing I do know
> is that optimizing for many cores in a shared-memory environment is a
> completely different problem from optimization for many machines in a
> shared-nothing environment.  "The grid" or "the cloud" is a whole
> different world from "SMP".

I'm not an expert either but just a quick note. You have what is known
as a "distributed" environment (many machines, non-shared memory, high
latency communication between agents / processes), not a "parallel"
environment (many cores/CPUs, either shared or non-shared memory, but
usually no high latency communication like a network). 

Sorry, I don't have any good references on the subject, but searching
for "distributed computing", "distributed programming", or "distributed
computation" will at least point you in the right direction. Also
"grid computing" or "cloud computing" as mentioned above. 

Marc

-- 
If builders built houses the way programmers built programs, the
first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.
  -- Gerald P. Weinberg
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From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug  4 21:40:28 2009
From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:40:28 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <20090804194555.GA20889-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <20090804174028.be759659.tleslie@tcn.net>

one of the reasons i like C#  is that it is trying to work in this direction.
(and ironically enough, its MS that puts up a majority chunk of the $ and direction for this).
There are libraries for many languages to do light weight threading,
C in particular, fortan for more static approaches to certain parallel math hardware.
i dont think C#/.net (mono) is were you want to be now, but I do believe it will
be the first there (core to popular language wise) shortly.
For now, you might be best to use some libraries/tools for C.
(i did a bunch of this back in McMaster and Waterloo in late 80's/90's,
when the end of MHz was coming ... ha ha, we are only just now
hitting the wall now so to speak),
but to me , i am interested in tackling this problem core to the language,
and with some of it done (done right), with out me even having to know its happening,
and at other times, me designing to it.
Mono is actively doing work in this area now, some off of MS, and some its own initiative.
of course you need very light weight threads to make best use of
the common quad or octal processor units these days, and even then,
the weight of the thread can of course make the time worst then serial,
if the work needed is very little, and it doesn't make up for the over head in threading.
raytracing of course is a great one for parallel, and there is a 
parallel zip util out for linux now too, you might want to 
see what they use for lwt env.

as mentioned, cloud computing parallel is not related to SMP,
with cloud, you have to break off sizable computational pieces,
and they should have their own copy of the data (or most of it),
so web services work, but even distributing a ray tracer can too.
if you can break your sim. off in nice large chunks, cloud might be great.
There are libraries for this too of course.

-tl




On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:45:55 -0400
"William O'Higgins Witteman" <william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Does anyone have experience or can recommend a good resource for
> high-performance parallel programming?
> 
> Specifically, I have been asked to help one of my colleagues parallelize
> a simulation.  Ideally I would like to be able to run it on many, many
> Linux machines via Amazon Web Services or similar service, but it would
> be great to maximize an arbitrary number of cores as well as
> physical/virtual machines.  Thanks.
> -- 
> 
> yours,
> 
> William
> 
> 


-- 
ted leslie <tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org>
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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 00:07:40 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 20:07:40 -0400
Subject: creating a ramdrive
In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0908040711k51cc5f80s8841037f26488a24-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908040201u3874f4b2xe90fde03a320088b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <793062.61379.qm@web110801.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	 <3a97ef0908040711k51cc5f80s8841037f26488a24@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908041707k3f4e0ce1j1cd8fcf597ee9ab@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Tyler Aviss<tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> According to here, you would use "-o size=6M" for a 6MB ramdisk
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMPFS
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:12 AM, William Park<opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>> Try "tmpfs".
>>
>> --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: creating a ramdrive
>>> To: "[TLUG]" <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
>>> Received: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 5:01 AM
>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:05 AM,
>>> Rajinder Yadav<devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> > How to I create a ram drive and specify size, let say
>>> 6 MB?
>>>
>>> ok I just figured out how to create and use a loopback
>>> filesystem, i
>>> just want to know if it's also possible to create a
>>> mountable
>>> filesystem in RAM, and how do I go about doing this?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Rajinder Yadav
> --
> Tyler Aviss
> Systems Support
> LPIC/LPIC-2
> (778) 890-0942
> --

William, Tyler thank you the info =) ... reading the outdated bootdisk
how-to, I was starting to get the feeling this was something you could
only specify in the kernel during before bootup, nice to see you can
do it after login.

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
--
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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 00:57:19 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 20:57:19 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <20090804174028.be759659.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
	 <20090804174028.be759659.tleslie@tcn.net>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908041757q40f7d14aw8b79a750b72de95e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 5:40 PM, ted leslie<tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> one of the reasons i like C# ?is that it is trying to work in this direction.
> (and ironically enough, its MS that puts up a majority chunk of the $ and direction for this).
> There are libraries for many languages to do light weight threading,
> C in particular, fortan for more static approaches to certain parallel math hardware.
> i dont think C#/.net (mono) is were you want to be now, but I do believe it will
> be the first there (core to popular language wise) shortly.
> For now, you might be best to use some libraries/tools for C.
> (i did a bunch of this back in McMaster and Waterloo in late 80's/90's,
> when the end of MHz was coming ... ha ha, we are only just now
> hitting the wall now so to speak),
> but to me , i am interested in tackling this problem core to the language,
> and with some of it done (done right), with out me even having to know its happening,
> and at other times, me designing to it.
> Mono is actively doing work in this area now, some off of MS, and some its own initiative.
> of course you need very light weight threads to make best use of
> the common quad or octal processor units these days, and even then,
> the weight of the thread can of course make the time worst then serial,
> if the work needed is very little, and it doesn't make up for the over head in threading.
> raytracing of course is a great one for parallel, and there is a
> parallel zip util out for linux now too, you might want to
> see what they use for lwt env.
>
> as mentioned, cloud computing parallel is not related to SMP,
> with cloud, you have to break off sizable computational pieces,
> and they should have their own copy of the data (or most of it),
> so web services work, but even distributing a ray tracer can too.
> if you can break your sim. off in nice large chunks, cloud might be great.
> There are libraries for this too of course.
>
> -tl
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:45:55 -0400
> "William O'Higgins Witteman" <william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have experience or can recommend a good resource for
>> high-performance parallel programming?
>>
>> Specifically, I have been asked to help one of my colleagues parallelize
>> a simulation. ?Ideally I would like to be able to run it on many, many
>> Linux machines via Amazon Web Services or similar service, but it would
>> be great to maximize an arbitrary number of cores as well as
>> physical/virtual machines. ?Thanks.
>> --
>>
>> yours,
>>
>> William
>>
> --
> ted leslie <tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org>
> --

Just throwing this out there, heard of these projects, never worked
with either framework. These are pretty much multi-core / GPU
frameworks.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_home.html#

http://www.rapidmind.net/

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
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From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 11:54:46 2009
From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:54:46 -0400
Subject: screen off
Message-ID: <1f13df280908050454r28e4b324id7f49ead9585bfa5@mail.gmail.com>

The command "xset dpms force off" turns off the screen entirely if
you're in X.  Is there an equivalent for the console?  The only thing
I've ever found left the backlight on.

-- 
Giles
http://www.gilesorr.com/
gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 15:01:32 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:01:32 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908041757q40f7d14aw8b79a750b72de95e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
 <20090804174028.be759659.tleslie@tcn.net>
 <a05162a70908041757q40f7d14aw8b79a750b72de95e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090805150132.GB8365@yam.witteman.ca>

On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 08:57:19PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote:

>Just throwing this out there, heard of these projects, never worked
>with either framework. These are pretty much multi-core / GPU
>frameworks.
>
>http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_home.html#
>
>http://www.rapidmind.net/

Thanks for these.  Using GPUs is out of the scope of this project - we
can't build special-purpose machines to run this on, and it takes a much
stronger programmer to leverage this type of device.  Rapidmind is
interesting, but without reading further I won't know if it will help.
-- 

yours,

William

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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 15:05:41 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:05:41 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <7ac602420908041252g427a188ei14915828e2f80d1a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
 <7ac602420908041252g427a188ei14915828e2f80d1a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090805150541.GC8365@yam.witteman.ca>

On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 12:52:08PM -0700, Ian Petersen wrote:
>On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 12:45 PM, William O'Higgins
>Witteman<william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> Does anyone have experience or can recommend a good resource for
>> high-performance parallel programming?
>>
>> Specifically, I have been asked to help one of my colleagues parallelize
>> a simulation. ?Ideally I would like to be able to run it on many, many
>> Linux machines via Amazon Web Services or similar service, but it would
>> be great to maximize an arbitrary number of cores as well as
>> physical/virtual machines. ?Thanks.
>
>I'm not even close to an expert in this area but one thing I do know
>is that optimizing for many cores in a shared-memory environment is a
>completely different problem from optimization for many machines in a
>shared-nothing environment.  "The grid" or "the cloud" is a whole
>different world from "SMP".

Thank you for that disambiguation.  Actually, I want both SMP and grid
computing advice.  Many commercially and academically available grids
use multiprocessor and multicore machines, and I am looking to maximize
the CPU usage for both.
-- 

yours,

William

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From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 15:10:12 2009
From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:10:12 -0400
Subject: Bell Breaks DNS (Was: Rogers Breaks DNS)
Message-ID: <99a6c38f0908050810j1f51e3e6s14c2f098faeec657@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Colin McGregor<colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a
> website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo
> search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and
> been told "that is the way it is supposed to work".
>
> Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the
> WORST possible Internet service in Canada?

Could be, but of course Bell has rejoined the competition.  I just
tried a random domain (www.somefreakingdomain.ca) and sure enough I
got the "bellassist" page.

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/04/1512248/Bell-Starts-Hijacking-NX-Domain-Queries

-- 
  Scott Elcomb
  http://www.psema4.com/   @psema4
--
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From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 15:46:48 2009
From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:46:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: this week's kernel newbie column at linux.com
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0908051145490.13759@localhost>


  http://cli.gs/j2enqP

a bit geeky, but it's kind of hard to avoid, given the subject matter.

rday
--

========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day                               Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

        Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry.

Web page:                                          http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter:                                       http://twitter.com/rpjday
"Kernel Newbie Corner" column @ linux.com:          http://cli.gs/WG6WYX
========================================================================
--
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 15:50:56 2009
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:50:56 -0400
Subject: Bell Breaks DNS (Was: Rogers Breaks DNS)
In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0908050810j1f51e3e6s14c2f098faeec657-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <99a6c38f0908050810j1f51e3e6s14c2f098faeec657@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0908050850x5ed02459m61531206cfea53e8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Scott Elcomb<psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Colin McGregor<colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a
>> website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo
>> search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and
>> been told "that is the way it is supposed to work".
>>
>> Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the
>> WORST possible Internet service in Canada?
>
> Could be, but of course Bell has rejoined the competition. ?I just
> tried a random domain (www.somefreakingdomain.ca) and sure enough I
> got the "bellassist" page.
>
> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/04/1512248/Bell-Starts-Hijacking-NX-Domain-Queries

... Which is why you should run your own caching DNS server that
points to the root.

This solves that problem, as if you run your own DNS server that
starts at the root, it heads to more properly authoritative sources,
only ever consulting Rogers or Bell if you are actually referencing
names for which they are *supposed* to be authoritative.

It is also at least somewhat helpful at making "cache poisoning" DNS
attacks less effective.  Attacking the DNS servers at Bell/Rogers is
no longer effective, at least :-).
-- 
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
Charles de Gaulle  - "The better I get to know men, the more I find
myself loving dogs." -
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/charles_de_gaulle.html
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From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 15:51:14 2009
From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:51:14 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <20090804194555.GA20889-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <4A79AA72.6070809@gmail.com>

William O'Higgins Witteman wrote:
> Does anyone have experience or can recommend a good resource for
> high-performance parallel programming?
>
> Specifically, I have been asked to help one of my colleagues parallelize
> a simulation.  Ideally I would like to be able to run it on many, many
> Linux machines via Amazon Web Services or similar service, but it would
> be great to maximize an arbitrary number of cores as well as
> physical/virtual machines.  Thanks.
>   
I used to sell Beowulf clusters so I know a bit about parallel 
processing. Most work in parallelization is done in either Fortran or 
C/C++ with special parallel compilers, libraries and APIs. Here's some 
links.

http://openmp.org/wp/
http://www.mhpcc.edu/training/workshop/parallel_libs/MAIN.html
http://software.intel.com/en-us/intel-compilers/
http://www.pgroup.com/
http://www.hpcwire.com/features/Compilers_and_More_Parallel_Programming_Made_Easy.html

Now I am sure Grid programming is a bit of a different duck because of 
the high latency involved with message passing so mpich and the like are 
probably not used as much unless the grid is made up of  Beowulf 
Clusters in different locations.

BTW I looked at Amazon Web Services and I noticed nothing about grid 
computing on the site. Just stuff about distributed websites and 
load-balancing. It's basically for doing distributed web apps.

You might be better of with a service like this.

http://www.tsunamictechnologies.com/services.htm

They give you access to a beowulf cluster from the web to run parallel 
code on. No need to worry about the low-latency of a grid. They may even 
have the parallel compilers for you to use on their cluster.

You might also want to contact some of the local Universities to see if 
they sell processing time on their beowulf clusters. Certainly talking 
with someone who works with clustering in an Academic setting will be 
help even if they don't as they can help you a lot more than I can. 
Especially with the Grid stuff.

--
Mark Lane
lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org




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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 15:51:48 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:51:48 -0400
Subject: Bell Breaks DNS (Was: Rogers Breaks DNS)
Message-ID: <b2177ed6f39b5443d23ba7688dc4cba4@teksavvy.com>


-----Original message-----
From: Scott Elcomb psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:10:12 -0400
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: Bell Breaks DNS (Was: Rogers Breaks DNS)

> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Colin McGregor<colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a
> > website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo
> > search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and
> > been told "that is the way it is supposed to work".
> >
> > Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the
> > WORST possible Internet service in Canada?
> 
> Could be, but of course Bell has rejoined the competition.  I just
> tried a random domain (www.somefreakingdomain.ca) and sure enough I
> got the "bellassist" page.
> 
> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/04/1512248/Bell-Starts-Hijacking-NX-Domain-Queries
> 

One more reason to use opendns, https://www.opendns.com/, ?

Meng

> -- 
>   Scott Elcomb
>   http://www.psema4.com/   @psema4
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 15:54:59 2009
From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:54:59 -0400
Subject: Bell Breaks DNS (Was: Rogers Breaks DNS)
In-Reply-To: <b2177ed6f39b5443d23ba7688dc4cba4-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <b2177ed6f39b5443d23ba7688dc4cba4@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <4A79AB53.4040006@moores.ca>

OpenDNS is really no better. They do it too by default.

I run my own DNS which is setup to forward unknown requests to 4.2.2.1
through 4.2.2.6.

Of course you can use these IP addresses directly for your computer's
DNS settings too. They do not hijack the requests.

/darryl

meng wrote:
> -----Original message-----
> From: Scott Elcomb psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:10:12 -0400
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: [TLUG]: Bell Breaks DNS (Was: Rogers Breaks DNS)
> 
>> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Colin McGregor<colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>> Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a
>>> website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo
>>> search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and
>>> been told "that is the way it is supposed to work".
>>>
>>> Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the
>>> WORST possible Internet service in Canada?
>> Could be, but of course Bell has rejoined the competition.  I just
>> tried a random domain (www.somefreakingdomain.ca) and sure enough I
>> got the "bellassist" page.
>>
>> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/04/1512248/Bell-Starts-Hijacking-NX-Domain-Queries
>>
> 
> One more reason to use opendns, https://www.opendns.com/, ?
> 
> Meng
> 
>> -- 
>>   Scott Elcomb
>>   http://www.psema4.com/   @psema4
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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From jvetterli-Rn4VEauK+AKRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 16:04:38 2009
From: jvetterli-Rn4VEauK+AKRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (jvetterli-Rn4VEauK+AKRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:04:38 -0400
Subject: Bell Breaks DNS (Was: Rogers Breaks DNS)
In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0908050810j1f51e3e6s14c2f098faeec657-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <99a6c38f0908050810j1f51e3e6s14c2f098faeec657@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP418CD8BE79190B0A1D9F24DA0D0@phx.gbl>

On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 11:10:12AM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote:
> Could be, but of course Bell has rejoined the competition.  I just
> tried a random domain (www.somefreakingdomain.ca) and sure enough I
> got the "bellassist" page.

Bell only seems to be doing it for names that begin with "www" (or "ww", 
or "wwww").

% host www.blurgablurgablurga.com
www.blurgablurgablurga.com has address 67.63.55.2
Host www.blurgablurgablurga.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
% host ftp.blurgablurgablurga.com
Host ftp.blurgablurgablurga.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)

I suppose we should be grateful for that.

JV
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From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 16:21:02 2009
From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jing)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:21:02 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <4A79AA72.6070809-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
	 <4A79AA72.6070809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f11de95f0908050921n72c0cd03kcd9cd85094cd6c97@mail.gmail.com>

>> Does anyone have experience or can recommend a good resource for
>> high-performance parallel programming?
>>
>> Specifically, I have been asked to help one of my colleagues parallelize
>> a simulation. ?Ideally I would like to be able to run it on many, many
>> Linux machines via Amazon Web Services or similar service, but it would
>> be great to maximize an arbitrary number of cores as well as
>> physical/virtual machines. ?Thanks.

Just throwing in an extra option.....

There's a local research project (at the U of T) called Snowflock
(spawned into a company called GridCentric), which provides high-speed
VM forking across a local cluster (based on Xen).  The product they
have right now works really well for CPU-bound work.  I'm not sure
what state the technology is at for cross-sharing large amounts of
data or network traffic.

http://gridcentric.ca/technology.shtml

http://sysweb.cs.toronto.edu/snowflock

The idea of snowflock is to provide a high-speed VM-fork analogous to
unix fork.  You can fork off one or many machines simultaneously (at
millisecond spawn-and-run speeds) across a cluster, get them all to do
parallel computation, and join the results back at the master machine.
 The programming paradigm is very natural and similar to unix fork,
except you can take advantage of many physical machines transparently.

The guys working on this were in the same lab as me as graduate
students.  Really smart and nice guys.
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From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 16:28:10 2009
From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:28:10 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <f11de95f0908050921n72c0cd03kcd9cd85094cd6c97-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>	 <4A79AA72.6070809@gmail.com> <f11de95f0908050921n72c0cd03kcd9cd85094cd6c97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A79B31A.7060705@ualberta.ca>

On 09-08-05 12:21 PM, jing wrote:
>
> Just throwing in an extra option.....
>
> There's a local research project (at the U of T) called Snowflock
> (spawned into a company called GridCentric), which provides high-speed
> VM forking across a local cluster (based on Xen).  The product they
> have right now works really well for CPU-bound work.  I'm not sure
> what state the technology is at for cross-sharing large amounts of
> data or network traffic.

I will throw out another option (also an academic project). Whether it's 
as mature or less mature than snowflock/GridCentric I have no idea :( 
but I should have mentioned it before.

    http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~paullu/Trellis/

Marc

-- 
Impatience is the sign of a practical mind.
--
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From pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 16:40:38 2009
From: pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Pete Lancashire)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:40:38 -0700
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <4A79AA72.6070809-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
    <4A79AA72.6070809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7620d75e9bd0cae51dc9cfc7c7950596.squirrel@petelancashire.com>

I've been following this thread and I think a better description
of the requirements is needed

if you looking for 'over the web', are you OK with 'here is a
slice of my data let me know in a hour or day or two when you
are done with it and I may give you some more' ?

if not your going to have to shorten the loop. I was going to
post a similar response that Mark just sent. I to have done
clusters both for learning and for profit.

Depending on the network, how about the PC's in a dorm ? A friend
a few years ago offered a free beer a month per PC and ended up
with over 100 nodes.

Here in Oregon we use to be able to 'rent' space on a few Beowulfs
for free if the usage was educational or similar use. What does
UT have ?

-pete



> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote:
>> Does anyone have experience or can recommend a good resource for
>> high-performance parallel programming?
>>
>> Specifically, I have been asked to help one of my colleagues parallelize
>> a simulation.  Ideally I would like to be able to run it on many, many
>> Linux machines via Amazon Web Services or similar service, but it would
>> be great to maximize an arbitrary number of cores as well as
>> physical/virtual machines.  Thanks.
>>
> I used to sell Beowulf clusters so I know a bit about parallel
> processing. Most work in parallelization is done in either Fortran or
> C/C++ with special parallel compilers, libraries and APIs. Here's some
> links.
>
> http://openmp.org/wp/
> http://www.mhpcc.edu/training/workshop/parallel_libs/MAIN.html
> http://software.intel.com/en-us/intel-compilers/
> http://www.pgroup.com/
> http://www.hpcwire.com/features/Compilers_and_More_Parallel_Programming_Made_Easy.html
>
> Now I am sure Grid programming is a bit of a different duck because of
> the high latency involved with message passing so mpich and the like are
> probably not used as much unless the grid is made up of  Beowulf
> Clusters in different locations.
>
> BTW I looked at Amazon Web Services and I noticed nothing about grid
> computing on the site. Just stuff about distributed websites and
> load-balancing. It's basically for doing distributed web apps.
>
> You might be better of with a service like this.
>
> http://www.tsunamictechnologies.com/services.htm
>
> They give you access to a beowulf cluster from the web to run parallel
> code on. No need to worry about the low-latency of a grid. They may even
> have the parallel compilers for you to use on their cluster.
>
> You might also want to contact some of the local Universities to see if
> they sell processing time on their beowulf clusters. Certainly talking
> with someone who works with clustering in an Academic setting will be
> help even if they don't as they can help you a lot more than I can.
> Especially with the Grid stuff.
>
> --
> Mark Lane
> lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 16:36:04 2009
From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:36:04 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <20090804174028.be759659.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca> <20090804174028.be759659.tleslie@tcn.net>
Message-ID: <4A79B4F4.4070004@ualberta.ca>

On 09-08-04 05:40 PM, ted leslie wrote:

> but to me , i am interested in tackling this problem core to the language,
> and with some of it done (done right), with out me even having to know its happening,
> and at other times, me designing to it.

You should take a look at Erlang; it's a [functional] language with 
built-in concurrency that's gaining popularity these days.

Marc

-- 
Impatience is the sign of a practical mind.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 16:55:30 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:55:30 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <7620d75e9bd0cae51dc9cfc7c7950596.squirrel-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
 <4A79AA72.6070809@gmail.com>
 <7620d75e9bd0cae51dc9cfc7c7950596.squirrel@petelancashire.com>
Message-ID: <20090805165530.GD8365@yam.witteman.ca>

On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 09:40:38AM -0700, Pete Lancashire wrote:
>I've been following this thread and I think a better description
>of the requirements is needed

I'll do what I can.  I don't yet have the full spec to work with.

>if you looking for 'over the web', are you OK with 'here is a
>slice of my data let me know in a hour or day or two when you
>are done with it and I may give you some more' ?

Yes - basically we have an agent-based simulation with an adjustable
number of agents (but ultimately we will want to be able to run it with
millions) and many, many scenario parameters - hundreds.  Each scenario
can be run separately - no message passing.  However, right now a single
scenario is being run on a single machine, and it is CPU bound and
currently non-parallel.

>Here in Oregon we use to be able to 'rent' space on a few Beowulfs
>for free if the usage was educational or similar use. What does
>UT have ?

Finding available grids, clusters is not the problem - writing the code
to utilize it is.
-- 

yours,

William

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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 16:56:53 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:56:53 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <4A79B4F4.4070004-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
 <20090804174028.be759659.tleslie@tcn.net>
 <4A79B4F4.4070004@ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <20090805165653.GE8365@yam.witteman.ca>

On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 12:36:04PM -0400, Marc Lanctot wrote:
>On 09-08-04 05:40 PM, ted leslie wrote:
>
>>but to me , i am interested in tackling this problem core to the language,
>>and with some of it done (done right), with out me even having to know its happening,
>>and at other times, me designing to it.
>
>You should take a look at Erlang; it's a [functional] language with
>built-in concurrency that's gaining popularity these days.

I've been looking at Erlang, but it is a good point.  I've used it for
trivial parallel programming, and it seems to be a nice tool.
-- 

yours,

William

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From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 16:58:40 2009
From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:58:40 -0400
Subject: Storage Area Network as a tlug meeting topic
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f0904300901l1a41fd0la2a9ee0970341e16-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870904291529v75fd176bx1ed66d6fc69ec4e3@mail.gmail.com> <d6d6637f0904300901l1a41fd0la2a9ee0970341e16@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A79BA40.8050605@gmail.com>

Christopher Browne wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 6:29 PM, William Muriithi
> <william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>   
>>  I am wondering if anyone among us have been lucky to work extensively
>> with SAN and would be willing to share the knowledge. I think we could
>> all gain by exchanging experience on the subject, for example on:
>>
>> - Good practical reference we have come across -  be either books or web links.
>> -  Share experience on hardware performance, especially when using
>> multipathd and Linux in general. Yeah, I could get that information
>> from the white page, but I will be frank and say I do not trust
>> marketing department.
>> -  Any interesting way of gaining experience on the subject without
>> parting with thousands of dollars.
>>     
>
> Sounds interesting...
>
> The one challenge I'd foresee is that there are two perspectives on
> this that are quite different in their slants:
>
> a) Those that are doing "hard-core" SAN work, where maximizing numbers
> of spindles is worth paying extra money, and where multichannel
> FibreChannel is worthwhile.
>
> I saw the following recently that explains that (though doesn't
> particulary explain *why*) expensive disks can give 10x better
> performance than the cheaper disks.
>
> http://www.dbms2.com/2009/04/28/data-warehouse-storage-options-cheap-expensive-or-solid-state-disk-drives/
>   
The article does not give support for the claim by Oliver Ratzesberger 
that 15K drives are 10x faster than 7200RPM drives. Maybe they are but 
it doesn't really matter when dealing with a lot of drives. You only get 
an advantage of a faster disk when you are running single or small 
arrays of disks. If you have a large array, the bandwidth of your bus or 
storage network will be the limiting factor and not the drives 
themselves. When I was designing NAS boxes, we found that it would only 
take 4 7200RPM SATA 1 drives to max out a PCI-X bus using RAID 5 and 
3ware card. So if I had 4 15RPM drives you might get better seek times 
but the overall transfer rate will not be any better than the 4 7200RPM 
drives. I guess if you have an application that requires seeking a lot 
of small files and not a lot of bandwidth, the 15K RPM will still be 
faster but for most applications it won't be.

Also the article talked about cheap drives being optimized for power 
consumption and not performance and reliability. While this is true for 
desktop drives, the article fails to mention that for not a lot of more 
money you can get RAID edition SATA drives from WD and Seagate that are 
actually rated for performance and reliability.

Ultimately, the decision will come down to the executives. They assume 
that SCSI, Fiber Channel are enterprise class hardware and SATA isn't. I 
was at a Western Digital presentation once where they were showing of 
drives that were equivalent in performance and reliability to SCSI 
offering yet the still refrained from referring to them as enterprise 
class. Yet Google has no problem using commodity hard drives.

If you need a ton of storage, cheaper SATA drives are definitely much 
more cost effective. You can even get them with 5 year warranties.

Fiber Channel based SANs are not even the fastest storage networks out 
there. They are just very well established in the enterprise. Running 
iSCSI over 10Gig Ethernet or Myrinet will give you a much fastest 
Storage Network.



--
Mark Lane
lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org




--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 17:14:29 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:14:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <20090805165530.GD8365-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca> <4A79AA72.6070809@gmail.com> <7620d75e9bd0cae51dc9cfc7c7950596.squirrel@petelancashire.com> <20090805165530.GD8365@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908051300220.12041@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: William O'Higgins Witteman <william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>

| I'll do what I can.  I don't yet have the full spec to work with.

Simulation is an area where well designed model and code make a great
difference.  Orders of magnitude performance difference.  And the
validity of the simulation is in play too.

| Yes - basically we have an agent-based simulation with an adjustable
| number of agents (but ultimately we will want to be able to run it with
| millions)

So we learn here something pretty fundamental: this is probably a
discrete simulation, not continuous.

| and many, many scenario parameters - hundreds.  Each scenario
| can be run separately - no message passing.  However, right now a single
| scenario is being run on a single machine, and it is CPU bound and
| currently non-parallel.

Millions of agents per scenario, I assume.

Hundreds of scenario parameters?  Are you meaning hundreds of dimensions of
variability or hundreds of parameter n-tuples covering the space?

"embarrassing parallelism" is the cheapest and easiest low-hanging
fruit.  The rest you have to pay for.

Your original question was a great conversation starter but our
answers are unlikely to be useful because we know too little about
your problem and about your current solution.

How much is invested in your current solution.  Can you afford to
throw it away?  If not, can it easily be reworked to exploit
parallelism effectively?

I'm impressed that several list members have serious experience with
parallelism.
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 17:14:54 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:14:54 -0400
Subject: Bell Breaks DNS (Was: Rogers Breaks DNS)
Message-ID: <346d5d27e5d0d5b339f680f94a89ea80@teksavvy.com>


-----Original message-----
From: Darryl Moore darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:54:59 -0400
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Bell Breaks DNS (Was: Rogers Breaks DNS)

> OpenDNS is really no better. They do it too by default.

I'm on OpenDNS and tried Scott's www.somefreakingdomain.ca and was directed to http://www.somefreakingdomain.ca/ with the message:

"This webpage is not available.

The webpage at http://www.somefreakingdomain.ca/ might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.

Here are some suggestions:
Reload this web page later.
  More information on this error
Below is the original error message

Error 105 (net::ERR_NAME_NOT_RESOLVED): The server could not be found."


> I run my own DNS which is setup to forward unknown requests to 4.2.2.1
> through 4.2.2.6.
> 
> Of course you can use these IP addresses directly for your computer's
> DNS settings too. They do not hijack the requests.
> 
> /darryl
> 
> meng wrote:
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: Scott Elcomb psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
> > Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:10:12 -0400
> > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> > Subject: [TLUG]: Bell Breaks DNS (Was: Rogers Breaks DNS)
> > 
> >> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Colin McGregor<colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8 at public.gmane.orgm> wrote:
> >>> Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a
> >>> website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo
> >>> search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and
> >>> been told "that is the way it is supposed to work".
> >>>
> >>> Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the
> >>> WORST possible Internet service in Canada?
> >> Could be, but of course Bell has rejoined the competition.  I just
> >> tried a random domain (www.somefreakingdomain.ca) and sure enough I
> >> got the "bellassist" page.
> >>
> >> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/04/1512248/Bell-Starts-Hijacking-NX-Domain-Queries
> >>
> > 
> > One more reason to use opendns, https://www.opendns.com/, ?
> > 
> > Meng
> > 
> >> -- 
> >>   Scott Elcomb
> >>   http://www.psema4.com/   @psema4
> >> --
> >> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 17:29:16 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:29:16 -0400
Subject: OpenVPN and LinkSys WRT54G
Message-ID: <4A79C16C.1030607@rogers.com>

I'm trying to set up my WRT54G with OpenVPN.  I've read about Tomato and
OpenWRT and was wondering about the best way to go about this.  Has
anyone set up OpenVPN with either package?

tnx jk

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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 17:42:30 2009
From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:42:30 -0400
Subject: OpenVPN and LinkSys WRT54G
In-Reply-To: <4A79C16C.1030607-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A79C16C.1030607@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4A79C486.1040600@gmail.com>

James Knott wrote:
> I'm trying to set up my WRT54G with OpenVPN.  I've read about Tomato and
> OpenWRT and was wondering about the best way to go about this.  Has
> anyone set up OpenVPN with either package?
>
> tnx jk
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>   
I haven't gotten around to trying OpenVPN yet on a WRT54G. I have been 
meaning to.

Anyway, I just wanted to mention the 3rd firmware option, dd-wrt.

http://www.dd-wrt.com/dd-wrtv3/index.php

Note while they currently have a link to the newest firmware on the 
frontpage, you normally have to get the links form the forums as they 
are way behind on updating their router database.


--
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From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug  5 18:28:04 2009
From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jing)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:28:04 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <20090805165530.GD8365-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
	 <4A79AA72.6070809@gmail.com>
	 <7620d75e9bd0cae51dc9cfc7c7950596.squirrel@petelancashire.com>
	 <20090805165530.GD8365@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <f11de95f0908051128x4c07c68axf90cc6403547ebdc@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:55 PM, William O'Higgins
Witteman<william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Yes - basically we have an agent-based simulation with an adjustable
> number of agents (but ultimately we will want to be able to run it with
> millions) and many, many scenario parameters - hundreds. ?Each scenario
> can be run separately - no message passing. ?However, right now a single
> scenario is being run on a single machine, and it is CPU bound and
> currently non-parallel.
>
> Finding available grids, clusters is not the problem - writing the code
> to utilize it is.

Just to add an additional plug for Snowflock... if you have lots of
existing legacy code and associated libraries and environments,
Snowflock works great (assuming Linux environment).  Because Snowflock
forks VMs, you just have to set up one VM image with the right
environment, add some minor tweaks to your code, and Snowflock does
the rest.  You don't have to pre-load the image on the other cluster
machines.  Snowflock dynamically streams VM images to other physical
machines to run.  I believe they currently have bindings for C and
Python.
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug  6 10:11:02 2009
From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 06:11:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: USB ehci_hcd problem
In-Reply-To: <f11de95f0908051128x4c07c68axf90cc6403547ebdc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>  <4A79AA72.6070809@gmail.com>  <7620d75e9bd0cae51dc9cfc7c7950596.squirrel@petelancashire.com>  <20090805165530.GD8365@yam.witteman.ca> <f11de95f0908051128x4c07c68axf90cc6403547ebdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908060607400.39570@vex.net>

How do I automate setting
'/sys/block/sdb/device/max_sectors' immediately after connecting
the device?

Why?

My USB 3.5" drives occasionally drop their connection
and leave the ext3 partition corrupted. 
This happens infrequently, thus making it hard to track down.
It happens more typically during large file transfers.

It appears to be a long time known bug, that is elusive and hard to
track down.

   http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11159#c68
   https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/61235/+activity

Here are my errors, from /var/log/messages: (with minor editing '..')
## after connecting USB drive (ok):
..00:45..sd 7:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
..00:45.. sdb: sdb1 sdb2 sdb3 sdb4
..00:45..sd 7:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI disk
..00:45..sd 7:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 0
## after mounting USB ext3 partition (ok):
..01:32..kjournald starting.  Commit interval 5 seconds
..01:32..EXT3 FS on sdb1, internal journal
..01:32..EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode.
## then after running a 'du' command, I got these errors
## and the drive disconnected
..02:40..EXT3-fs error (device sdb1): htree_dirblock_to_tree: bad entry in directory #13812933: inode out of bounds - offset=0, inode=32784893, rec_len=4096, name_len=0
..02:41..EXT3-fs error (device sdb1): htree_dirblock_to_tree: bad entry in directory #13566095: rec_len is smaller than minimal - offset=0, inode=0, rec_len=0, name_len=0
..04:22..usb 6-1: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 5
..04:37..usb 6-1: device descriptor read/64, error -110
..04:37..usb 6-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
..04:37..usb 6-1: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 5
   ..
..04:39..usb 6-1: USB disconnect, address 5
..04:39..sd 7:0:0:0: [sdb] Result: hostbyte=DID_NO_CONNECT driverbyte=DRIVER_OK,SUGGEST_OK
..04:39..end_request: I/O error, dev sdb, sector 22947615


Workaround fixes:

   (1) modprobe -r ehci-hcd
       - this is useless as it reverts to USB 1

   (2) a number of suggested kernel parameter changes
       and then a kernel recompile
       - not certain if these will work, so not my first choice

   (3) echo 64 >/sys/block/sdb/device/max_sectors
       - 'sdb' is an example
       - previous value was '240' in my case
       - this appears to have fixed the problem as I have been monitoring
         /var/log/messages

   (4) mount using 'sync' option
       - tried this but the slow down is too much
       - 'cp' slowed down about 10x with a 1GB file,
         while 'dd bs=100M' was only a little slower
 	- it appears that 'cp' is leveraging its efficiency on
 	  implicit system buffering which 'sync' removes

Now, how do I automate setting
'/sys/block/sdb/device/max_sectors' immediately after connecting
the device?  Note that this path does not exist until
the device is plugged in.


--
Eric B.

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug  6 12:14:27 2009
From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:14:27 -0400
Subject: OpenVPN and LinkSys WRT54G
In-Reply-To: <4A79C486.1040600-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A79C16C.1030607@rogers.com> <4A79C486.1040600@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7AC923.4010404@tmis.ca>

I dont even bother changing the router.

On both sides of the openvpn connection, openvpn-server and 
openvpn-client I portforward 1194/udp.

I pick any NAT address PC as the openvpn-server and on the other side, 
any NAT address PC as a openvpn-client.

I have done this with openvpn-bridge, so I would imagine the simpler 
openvpn-routed would work in this fashion as well.

I will post the way I use openvpn-setup bridge to tlug.
I use PCKS12, so I do not bother too much with all the other cert files.




Mark Lane wrote:
> James Knott wrote:
>> I'm trying to set up my WRT54G with OpenVPN.  I've read about Tomato and
>> OpenWRT and was wondering about the best way to go about this.  Has
>> anyone set up OpenVPN with either package?
>>
>> tnx jk
>>
>> -- 
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>   
> I haven't gotten around to trying OpenVPN yet on a WRT54G. I have been 
> meaning to.
> 
> Anyway, I just wanted to mention the 3rd firmware option, dd-wrt.
> 
> http://www.dd-wrt.com/dd-wrtv3/index.php
> 
> Note while they currently have a link to the newest firmware on the 
> frontpage, you normally have to get the links form the forums as they 
> are way behind on updating their router database.
> 
> 
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug  6 16:07:25 2009
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice)
Date: 06 Aug 2009 12:07:25 -0400
Subject: Looking for a "your post sucks" response template
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70907140943v2b881822g39f319bbe422fa94-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70907140943v2b881822g39f319bbe422fa94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <lv4oslncxu.fsf_-_@newsol.starnix.com>

Hey, guys.

I just knooowww someone on this list has one of these.  I'm not certain what
their called but they usually (or used to) get posted in response to trolls
and the such and looked like:


    /************ SNIP  ******************/
   
    This form in response to your posting of XXX has been sent to inform
    you that you have:

        [ ] trolled
        [ ] spammed
        [ ] insulted
        [ ] asked for inappropriate help on your homework
        [ ] ....

    the entire group/list with your (select all that apply):

        [ ] rascist             [ ] slanderous
        [ ] homophobic          [ ] hateful
        [ ] incorrect           [ ] biased
        [ ] ...

    comments.  We put it to a vote and think that you should consider:

        [ ] entering the Darwin Awards
        [ ] posting a retraction
        [ ] going away
        [ ] ...

    ...
    /***************************************/

Anyone know what these are generally called and/or where to find a good
example?

PS - No, this is not a homework assignment :)

Regards,
-- 
g. matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>      starnix care, toronto, ontario, ca
phone: 647.722.5301 x242                                  gpg id: EF9AAD20
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug  6 18:17:47 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:17:47 -0700
Subject: USB ehci_hcd problem
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908060607400.39570-Ja3L+HSX0kI@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
	 <4A79AA72.6070809@gmail.com>
	 <7620d75e9bd0cae51dc9cfc7c7950596.squirrel@petelancashire.com>
	 <20090805165530.GD8365@yam.witteman.ca>
	 <f11de95f0908051128x4c07c68axf90cc6403547ebdc@mail.gmail.com>
	 <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908060607400.39570@vex.net>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908061117m1e2f035s8057f4478b6bac1e@mail.gmail.com>

If you could find the appropriate ID for your device, you can create
an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d that launches a script whenever it's
plugged.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 3:11 AM, Eric Battersby<gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> How do I automate setting
> '/sys/block/sdb/device/max_sectors' immediately after connecting
> the device?
>
> Why?
>
> My USB 3.5" drives occasionally drop their connection
> and leave the ext3 partition corrupted. This happens infrequently, thus
> making it hard to track down.
> It happens more typically during large file transfers.
>
> It appears to be a long time known bug, that is elusive and hard to
> track down.
>
> ?http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11159#c68
> ?https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/61235/+activity
>
> Here are my errors, from /var/log/messages: (with minor editing '..')
> ## after connecting USB drive (ok):
> ..00:45..sd 7:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
> ..00:45.. sdb: sdb1 sdb2 sdb3 sdb4
> ..00:45..sd 7:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI disk
> ..00:45..sd 7:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 0
> ## after mounting USB ext3 partition (ok):
> ..01:32..kjournald starting. ?Commit interval 5 seconds
> ..01:32..EXT3 FS on sdb1, internal journal
> ..01:32..EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode.
> ## then after running a 'du' command, I got these errors
> ## and the drive disconnected
> ..02:40..EXT3-fs error (device sdb1): htree_dirblock_to_tree: bad entry in
> directory #13812933: inode out of bounds - offset=0, inode=32784893,
> rec_len=4096, name_len=0
> ..02:41..EXT3-fs error (device sdb1): htree_dirblock_to_tree: bad entry in
> directory #13566095: rec_len is smaller than minimal - offset=0, inode=0,
> rec_len=0, name_len=0
> ..04:22..usb 6-1: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 5
> ..04:37..usb 6-1: device descriptor read/64, error -110
> ..04:37..usb 6-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
> ..04:37..usb 6-1: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 5
> ?..
> ..04:39..usb 6-1: USB disconnect, address 5
> ..04:39..sd 7:0:0:0: [sdb] Result: hostbyte=DID_NO_CONNECT
> driverbyte=DRIVER_OK,SUGGEST_OK
> ..04:39..end_request: I/O error, dev sdb, sector 22947615
>
>
> Workaround fixes:
>
> ?(1) modprobe -r ehci-hcd
> ? ? ?- this is useless as it reverts to USB 1
>
> ?(2) a number of suggested kernel parameter changes
> ? ? ?and then a kernel recompile
> ? ? ?- not certain if these will work, so not my first choice
>
> ?(3) echo 64 >/sys/block/sdb/device/max_sectors
> ? ? ?- 'sdb' is an example
> ? ? ?- previous value was '240' in my case
> ? ? ?- this appears to have fixed the problem as I have been monitoring
> ? ? ? ?/var/log/messages
>
> ?(4) mount using 'sync' option
> ? ? ?- tried this but the slow down is too much
> ? ? ?- 'cp' slowed down about 10x with a 1GB file,
> ? ? ? ?while 'dd bs=100M' was only a little slower
> ? ? ? ?- it appears that 'cp' is leveraging its efficiency on
> ? ? ? ? ?implicit system buffering which 'sync' removes
>
> Now, how do I automate setting
> '/sys/block/sdb/device/max_sectors' immediately after connecting
> the device? ?Note that this path does not exist until
> the device is plugged in.
>
>
> --
> Eric B.
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>



-- 
Tyler Aviss
Systems Support
LPIC/LPIC-2
(778) 890-0942
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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug  6 20:38:41 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:38:41 -0400
Subject: this week's kernel newbie column at linux.com
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0908051145490.13759@localhost>
References: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0908051145490.13759@localhost>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908061338j6f0672a7y636b059c8abf68af@mail.gmail.com>
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S2VybmVsIE5ld2JpZSBDb3JuZXIiIGNvbHVtbiBAIGxpbnV4LmNvbTogoCCgIKAgoCCgaHR0cDov
L2NsaS5ncy9XRzZXWVgKPiA9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KCk5pY2Ugd29yaywgSSBsaWtlZCB0aGUg
YXJ0aWNsZS4gSSBkaWRuJ3QgZmluZCBpdCB0b28gZ2VlayBhbmQgaXQgaGVscHMKbWUgbWFwIG92
ZXIgbXkgV2luZG93cyBkZXZlbG9wbWVudCBza2lsbHMgaW50byBMaW51eCA9KQoKLS0gCktpbmQg
UmVnYXJkcywKUmFqaW5kZXIgWWFkYXYK
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug  6 21:04:55 2009
From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:04:55 -0400
Subject: this week's kernel newbie column at linux.com
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908061338j6f0672a7y636b059c8abf68af-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0908051145490.13759@localhost>
	 <a05162a70908061338j6f0672a7y636b059c8abf68af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cc63eb120908061404l14e51e5jaf9a67ddb0c0a570@mail.gmail.com>

What the hell is this now??

2009/8/6 Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>:
> T24gV2VkLCBBdWcgNSwgMjAwOSBhdCAxMTo0NiBBTSwgUm9iZXJ0IFAuIEouIERheTxycGpkYXlA
> Y3Jhc2hjb3Vyc2UuY2E+IHdyb3RlOgo+Cj4goGh0dHA6Ly9jbGkuZ3MvajJlbnFQCj4KPiBhIGJp
> dCBnZWVreSwgYnV0IGl0J3Mga2luZCBvZiBoYXJkIHRvIGF2b2lkLCBnaXZlbiB0aGUgc3ViamVj
> dCBtYXR0ZXIuCj4KPiByZGF5Cj4gLS0KPgo+ID09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
> PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQo+IFJvYmVydCBQLiBK
> LiBEYXkgoCCgIKAgoCCgIKAgoCCgIKAgoCCgIKAgoCCgIKAgV2F0ZXJsb28sIE9udGFyaW8sIENB
> TkFEQQo+Cj4goCCgIKAgoExpbnV4IENvbnN1bHRpbmcsIFRyYWluaW5nIGFuZCBBbm5veWluZyBL
> ZXJuZWwgUGVkYW50cnkuCj4KPiBXZWIgcGFnZTogoCCgIKAgoCCgIKAgoCCgIKAgoCCgIKAgoCCg
> IKAgoCCgIKAgoCCgIKBodHRwOi8vY3Jhc2hjb3Vyc2UuY2EKPiBUd2l0dGVyOiCgIKAgoCCgIKAg
> oCCgIKAgoCCgIKAgoCCgIKAgoCCgIKAgoCCgIGh0dHA6Ly90d2l0dGVyLmNvbS9ycGpkYXkKPiAi
> S2VybmVsIE5ld2JpZSBDb3JuZXIiIGNvbHVtbiBAIGxpbnV4LmNvbTogoCCgIKAgoCCgaHR0cDov
> L2NsaS5ncy9XRzZXWVgKPiA9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
> PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KCk5pY2Ugd29yaywgSSBsaWtlZCB0aGUg
> YXJ0aWNsZS4gSSBkaWRuJ3QgZmluZCBpdCB0b28gZ2VlayBhbmQgaXQgaGVscHMKbWUgbWFwIG92
> ZXIgbXkgV2luZG93cyBkZXZlbG9wbWVudCBza2lsbHMgaW50byBMaW51eCA9KQoKLS0gCktpbmQg
> UmVnYXJkcywKUmFqaW5kZXIgWWFkYXYK
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug  6 21:20:11 2009
From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:20:11 -0700
Subject: this week's kernel newbie column at linux.com
In-Reply-To: <cc63eb120908061404l14e51e5jaf9a67ddb0c0a570-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0908051145490.13759@localhost>
	 <a05162a70908061338j6f0672a7y636b059c8abf68af@mail.gmail.com>
	 <cc63eb120908061404l14e51e5jaf9a67ddb0c0a570@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7ac602420908061420s59bee9f3o951b6f022996c2c6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Thomas
Milne<tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> What the hell is this now??

Who knows what went wrong, but the mail headers say the content is
base64-encoded.  Decoding it at
http://www.opinionatedgeek.com/dotnet/tools/Base64Decode/Default.aspx
suggests Rajinder is trying to compliment Robert on his Kernel Newbie
column.

Rajinder seems to have bottom-posted (I've elided his quoting of Robert):

> Nice work, I liked the article. I didn't find it too geek and it helps
> me map over my Windows development skills into Linux =)
>
> --
> Kind Regards,
> Rajinder Yadav

Ian
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From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug  6 21:37:03 2009
From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:37:03 -0400
Subject: this week's kernel newbie column at linux.com
In-Reply-To: <7ac602420908061420s59bee9f3o951b6f022996c2c6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0908051145490.13759@localhost>
	 <a05162a70908061338j6f0672a7y636b059c8abf68af@mail.gmail.com>
	 <cc63eb120908061404l14e51e5jaf9a67ddb0c0a570@mail.gmail.com>
	 <7ac602420908061420s59bee9f3o951b6f022996c2c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cc63eb120908061437t3865b383wfe6938816a3c073a@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Ian Petersen<ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Thomas
> Milne<tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> What the hell is this now??
>
> Who knows what went wrong, but the mail headers say the content is
> base64-encoded. ?Decoding it at
> http://www.opinionatedgeek.com/dotnet/tools/Base64Decode/Default.aspx
> suggests Rajinder is trying to compliment Robert on his Kernel Newbie
> column.
>
> Rajinder seems to have bottom-posted (I've elided his quoting of Robert):
>
>> Nice work, I liked the article. I didn't find it too geek and it helps
>> me map over my Windows development skills into Linux =)
>>
>> --
>> Kind Regards,
>> Rajinder Yadav
>
> Ian

What application would someone use to compose their e-mails in base64? Gimp?
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug  6 22:15:49 2009
From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:15:49 -0400
Subject: Raising Geek Girls...
Message-ID: <f646b91f0908061515u3e5a391es568abe23a16b5a46@mail.gmail.com>

I ran across the following article on raising geek girls:

http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2009/08/5-tips-for-raising-your-girl-geek/

This stuck me as being a fairly good article, but ... the people who
should be reading an article like the above MOST are non-geek parents
of a geek girl... I somehow suspect the vast majority of non-geek
parents will NOT be reading the "Wired" website...

So, I would suggest that anyone who knows the parents of a geek girl
pass the above on to said parents...


Colin McGregor
--
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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 02:06:25 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:06:25 -0400
Subject: this week's kernel newbie column at linux.com
In-Reply-To: <cc63eb120908061404l14e51e5jaf9a67ddb0c0a570-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0908051145490.13759@localhost>
	 <a05162a70908061338j6f0672a7y636b059c8abf68af@mail.gmail.com>
	 <cc63eb120908061404l14e51e5jaf9a67ddb0c0a570@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908061906r744286c4qbb1d2693db0914c2@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Thomas
Milne<tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> What the hell is this now??
>
> 2009/8/6 Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>:
>> T24gV2VkLCBBdWcgNSwgMjAwOSBhdCAxMTo0NiBBTSwgUm9iZXJ0IFAuIEouIERheTxycGpkYXlA
>> Y3Jhc2hjb3Vyc2UuY2E+IHdyb3RlOgo+Cj4goGh0dHA6Ly9jbGkuZ3MvajJlbnFQCj4KPiBhIGJp
>> dCBnZWVreSwgYnV0IGl0J3Mga2luZCBvZiBoYXJkIHRvIGF2b2lkLCBnaXZlbiB0aGUgc3ViamVj

Thomas, not sure what went wrong? I replied from work on my WinXP box
using my gmail a/c from firefox. My WinXP is a 32bit OS, no clue why
the base64-encoding?

I will have to check my browser's encoding at work, maybe something
happed after the FF update the other day.

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 02:15:14 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:15:14 -0400
Subject: this week's kernel newbie column at linux.com
In-Reply-To: <cc63eb120908061437t3865b383wfe6938816a3c073a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0908051145490.13759@localhost>
	 <a05162a70908061338j6f0672a7y636b059c8abf68af@mail.gmail.com>
	 <cc63eb120908061404l14e51e5jaf9a67ddb0c0a570@mail.gmail.com>
	 <7ac602420908061420s59bee9f3o951b6f022996c2c6@mail.gmail.com>
	 <cc63eb120908061437t3865b383wfe6938816a3c073a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908061915v564e61c6xc0830ab42c302c05@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Thomas
Milne<tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Ian Petersen<ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Thomas
>> Milne<tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>> What the hell is this now??
>>
>> Who knows what went wrong, but the mail headers say the content is
>> base64-encoded. ?Decoding it at
>> http://www.opinionatedgeek.com/dotnet/tools/Base64Decode/Default.aspx
>> suggests Rajinder is trying to compliment Robert on his Kernel Newbie
>> column.
>>
>> Rajinder seems to have bottom-posted (I've elided his quoting of Robert):
>>
>>> Nice work, I liked the article. I didn't find it too geek and it helps
>>> me map over my Windows development skills into Linux =)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Rajinder Yadav
>>
>> Ian
>
> What application would someone use to compose their e-mails in base64? Gimp?

Under firefox if you go to View then Encoding, that might be what
causes the encoding problem, if somehow that was changed on my PC. I
also recall there was power outage for 1 sec last Friday, knocked out
all the PC at work.  Maybe that caused some settings to get messed up
in FF, I know my Outlook was foobar and I had to reinstall it.

I will have to verify and correct on Monday as I am off Friday,
otherwise if I forget just remind me ;)

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 03:01:00 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 23:01:00 -0400
Subject: this week's kernel newbie column at linux.com
In-Reply-To: <cc63eb120908061404l14e51e5jaf9a67ddb0c0a570-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0908051145490.13759@localhost>
 <a05162a70908061338j6f0672a7y636b059c8abf68af@mail.gmail.com>
 <cc63eb120908061404l14e51e5jaf9a67ddb0c0a570@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090807030100.GA12305@yam.witteman.ca>

On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 05:04:55PM -0400, Thomas Milne wrote:
>What the hell is this now??

Interestingly, the message text showed up just fine in mutt, but the sig
was borked.  The headers do support the fact that it was base-64
encoded, and apparently mutt knows what to do with it.
-- 

yours,

William

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From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 13:36:09 2009
From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:36:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: USB ehci_hcd problem
In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0908061117m1e2f035s8057f4478b6bac1e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>  <4A79AA72.6070809@gmail.com>  <7620d75e9bd0cae51dc9cfc7c7950596.squirrel@petelancashire.com>  <20090805165530.GD8365@yam.witteman.ca>  <f11de95f0908051128x4c07c68axf90cc6403547ebdc@mail.gmail.com> 
 <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908060607400.39570@vex.net> <3a97ef0908061117m1e2f035s8057f4478b6bac1e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908070933060.39570@vex.net>

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009, Tyler Aviss wrote:

> If you could find the appropriate ID for your device, you can create
> an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d that launches a script whenever it's
> plugged.

Thanks for the direction.
I needed a generic solution so I added this to  '40-redhat.rules':
   KERNEL=="sd?", PROGRAM="/usr/local/bin/udev_usb_rule %k %c", NAME="%c"
and it seems to work at the right time.


> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 3:11 AM, Eric Battersby<gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> How do I automate setting
>> '/sys/block/sdb/device/max_sectors' immediately after connecting
>> the device?
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> My USB 3.5" drives occasionally drop their connection
>> and leave the ext3 partition corrupted. This happens infrequently, thus
>> making it hard to track down.
>> It happens more typically during large file transfers.
>>
>> It appears to be a long time known bug, that is elusive and hard to
>> track down.
>>
>>  http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11159#c68
>>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/61235/+activity
>>
>> Here are my errors, from /var/log/messages: (with minor editing '..')
>> ## after connecting USB drive (ok):
>> ..00:45..sd 7:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
>> ..00:45.. sdb: sdb1 sdb2 sdb3 sdb4
>> ..00:45..sd 7:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI disk
>> ..00:45..sd 7:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 0
>> ## after mounting USB ext3 partition (ok):
>> ..01:32..kjournald starting.  Commit interval 5 seconds
>> ..01:32..EXT3 FS on sdb1, internal journal
>> ..01:32..EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode.
>> ## then after running a 'du' command, I got these errors
>> ## and the drive disconnected
>> ..02:40..EXT3-fs error (device sdb1): htree_dirblock_to_tree: bad entry in
>> directory #13812933: inode out of bounds - offset=0, inode=32784893,
>> rec_len=4096, name_len=0
>> ..02:41..EXT3-fs error (device sdb1): htree_dirblock_to_tree: bad entry in
>> directory #13566095: rec_len is smaller than minimal - offset=0, inode=0,
>> rec_len=0, name_len=0
>> ..04:22..usb 6-1: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 5
>> ..04:37..usb 6-1: device descriptor read/64, error -110
>> ..04:37..usb 6-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
>> ..04:37..usb 6-1: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 5
>>  ..
>> ..04:39..usb 6-1: USB disconnect, address 5
>> ..04:39..sd 7:0:0:0: [sdb] Result: hostbyte=DID_NO_CONNECT
>> driverbyte=DRIVER_OK,SUGGEST_OK
>> ..04:39..end_request: I/O error, dev sdb, sector 22947615
>>
>>
>> Workaround fixes:
>>
>>  (1) modprobe -r ehci-hcd
>>      - this is useless as it reverts to USB 1
>>
>>  (2) a number of suggested kernel parameter changes
>>      and then a kernel recompile
>>      - not certain if these will work, so not my first choice
>>
>>  (3) echo 64 >/sys/block/sdb/device/max_sectors
>>      - 'sdb' is an example
>>      - previous value was '240' in my case
>>      - this appears to have fixed the problem as I have been monitoring
>>        /var/log/messages
>>
>>  (4) mount using 'sync' option
>>      - tried this but the slow down is too much
>>      - 'cp' slowed down about 10x with a 1GB file,
>>        while 'dd bs=100M' was only a little slower
>>        - it appears that 'cp' is leveraging its efficiency on
>>          implicit system buffering which 'sync' removes
>>
>> Now, how do I automate setting
>> '/sys/block/sdb/device/max_sectors' immediately after connecting
>> the device?  Note that this path does not exist until
>> the device is plugged in.
...
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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 13:45:48 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:45:48 -0700
Subject: USB ehci_hcd problem
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908070933060.39570-Ja3L+HSX0kI@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
	 <4A79AA72.6070809@gmail.com>
	 <7620d75e9bd0cae51dc9cfc7c7950596.squirrel@petelancashire.com>
	 <20090805165530.GD8365@yam.witteman.ca>
	 <f11de95f0908051128x4c07c68axf90cc6403547ebdc@mail.gmail.com>
	 <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908060607400.39570@vex.net>
	 <3a97ef0908061117m1e2f035s8057f4478b6bac1e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908070933060.39570@vex.net>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908070645i3ce32f6dt34ead9b40b2d795c@mail.gmail.com>

Glad it's working for you!
The only other thing I might advise is that, rather than adding it to
an existing ruleset, you create a custom 010-custom.rules or something
similar so that an upgrade/update doesn't overwrite your changes in
the future.

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 6:36 AM, Eric Battersby<gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Aug 2009, Tyler Aviss wrote:
>
>> If you could find the appropriate ID for your device, you can create
>> an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d that launches a script whenever it's
>> plugged.
>
> Thanks for the direction.
> I needed a generic solution so I added this to ?'40-redhat.rules':
> ?KERNEL=="sd?", PROGRAM="/usr/local/bin/udev_usb_rule %k %c", NAME="%c"
> and it seems to work at the right time.
>
>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 3:11 AM, Eric Battersby<gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> How do I automate setting
>>> '/sys/block/sdb/device/max_sectors' immediately after connecting
>>> the device?
>>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>> My USB 3.5" drives occasionally drop their connection
>>> and leave the ext3 partition corrupted. This happens infrequently, thus
>>> making it hard to track down.
>>> It happens more typically during large file transfers.
>>>
>>> It appears to be a long time known bug, that is elusive and hard to
>>> track down.
>>>
>>> ?http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11159#c68
>>>
>>> ?https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/61235/+activity
>>>
>>> Here are my errors, from /var/log/messages: (with minor editing '..')
>>> ## after connecting USB drive (ok):
>>> ..00:45..sd 7:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
>>> ..00:45.. sdb: sdb1 sdb2 sdb3 sdb4
>>> ..00:45..sd 7:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI disk
>>> ..00:45..sd 7:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 0
>>> ## after mounting USB ext3 partition (ok):
>>> ..01:32..kjournald starting. ?Commit interval 5 seconds
>>> ..01:32..EXT3 FS on sdb1, internal journal
>>> ..01:32..EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode.
>>> ## then after running a 'du' command, I got these errors
>>> ## and the drive disconnected
>>> ..02:40..EXT3-fs error (device sdb1): htree_dirblock_to_tree: bad entry
>>> in
>>> directory #13812933: inode out of bounds - offset=0, inode=32784893,
>>> rec_len=4096, name_len=0
>>> ..02:41..EXT3-fs error (device sdb1): htree_dirblock_to_tree: bad entry
>>> in
>>> directory #13566095: rec_len is smaller than minimal - offset=0, inode=0,
>>> rec_len=0, name_len=0
>>> ..04:22..usb 6-1: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address
>>> 5
>>> ..04:37..usb 6-1: device descriptor read/64, error -110
>>> ..04:37..usb 6-1: device descriptor read/64, error -71
>>> ..04:37..usb 6-1: reset high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address
>>> 5
>>> ?..
>>> ..04:39..usb 6-1: USB disconnect, address 5
>>> ..04:39..sd 7:0:0:0: [sdb] Result: hostbyte=DID_NO_CONNECT
>>> driverbyte=DRIVER_OK,SUGGEST_OK
>>> ..04:39..end_request: I/O error, dev sdb, sector 22947615
>>>
>>>
>>> Workaround fixes:
>>>
>>> ?(1) modprobe -r ehci-hcd
>>> ? ? - this is useless as it reverts to USB 1
>>>
>>> ?(2) a number of suggested kernel parameter changes
>>> ? ? and then a kernel recompile
>>> ? ? - not certain if these will work, so not my first choice
>>>
>>> ?(3) echo 64 >/sys/block/sdb/device/max_sectors
>>> ? ? - 'sdb' is an example
>>> ? ? - previous value was '240' in my case
>>> ? ? - this appears to have fixed the problem as I have been monitoring
>>> ? ? ? /var/log/messages
>>>
>>> ?(4) mount using 'sync' option
>>> ? ? - tried this but the slow down is too much
>>> ? ? - 'cp' slowed down about 10x with a 1GB file,
>>> ? ? ? while 'dd bs=100M' was only a little slower
>>> ? ? ? - it appears that 'cp' is leveraging its efficiency on
>>> ? ? ? ? implicit system buffering which 'sync' removes
>>>
>>> Now, how do I automate setting
>>> '/sys/block/sdb/device/max_sectors' immediately after connecting
>>> the device? ?Note that this path does not exist until
>>> the device is plugged in.
>
> ...
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>



-- 
Tyler Aviss
Systems Support
LPIC/LPIC-2
(778) 890-0942
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 14:12:22 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:12:22 -0400
Subject: OpenVPN and LinkSys WRT54G
In-Reply-To: <4A7AC923.4010404-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A79C16C.1030607@rogers.com> <4A79C486.1040600@gmail.com> <4A7AC923.4010404@tmis.ca>
Message-ID: <4A7C3646.40803@rogers.com>

teddy mills wrote:
> I dont even bother changing the router.
>
> On both sides of the openvpn connection, openvpn-server and
> openvpn-client I portforward 1194/udp.
>
> I pick any NAT address PC as the openvpn-server and on the other side,
> any NAT address PC as a openvpn-client.
>
> I have done this with openvpn-bridge, so I would imagine the simpler
> openvpn-routed would work in this fashion as well.
>
> I will post the way I use openvpn-setup bridge to tlug.
> I use PCKS12, so I do not bother too much with all the other cert files.

I have considered doing that, but I'd prefer having the VPN on the
router.  Also, I use a routed VPN rather than bridged.  IIRC, a bridged
VPN requires both ends to be on the same subnet, which is not possible,
as I use my VPN from a variety of locations.  With a routed VPN, I'd
also have to run the DHCP server on a local computer, so that computers
getting an IP address via DHCP can get the additional route.  The the
DHCP servers in consumer level routers do not support anything beyond a
default route.

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 15:46:25 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:46:25 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com> <20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com> <7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com> <20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net> <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090807154624.GS2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 05:36:14PM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote:
> I don't own any of the consoles, the computer that I built cost me
> $5200 -- it's a Ci7 EE build -- and I only buy a few games: RPGs, RTS,
> FPS/TPS, MMOs (and also play the F2P MMOs as well), and some games I
> get through other means, just like certain esoteric movies from the
> past, got to love cinemageddon.  So, yes, I am a Gamer, but not a
> console Gamer, although I do plan on buying a console again, I just
> don't see the need yet.

$5200?  Ouch.  I think I spent $2000 or so on an i7 920 system with a
GTX275 video card.  Still quite decent for gaming I am sure (not been
tried for that yet).  I wonder what percentage increase in performance
the extra $3000 buys you.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 15:55:21 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:55:21 -0400
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues, does this mean carbon composite
	has issues?
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908031120o6e43033cg775ceee9479a1b99-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com> <4A758D2F.9070901@rogers.com> <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel@petelancashire.com> <4A771A0F.3050403@telly.org> <b8f780870908031120o6e43033cg775ceee9479a1b99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090807155521.GT2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 02:20:00PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote:
> Agree, A380 issues was somehow related to developing pieces of the plane
> from both Germany and France. However, this would not have occurred were
> both side using the same software vendor.  This begs the question, is it the
> geography or the software politics that came in the way of A380? I tend to
> think its the later.

They were using the same software.  Unfortunately one location had
upgraded to the latest version, while the other one was one version
behind and had not yet gotten around to upgrading.  The two versions
did not talk to each other directly, so they didn't get to immedialtly
see the combination of their work and any conflicts it caused.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 15:55:48 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:55:48 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <20090807154624.GS2989-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com> 
	<7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net> <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090807154624.GS2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908070855l51c72524ua22c5929b1c31a6e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:46, Lennart
Sorensen<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> $5200? ?Ouch. ?I think I spent $2000 or so on an i7 920 system with a
> GTX275 video card. ?Still quite decent for gaming I am sure (not been
> tried for that yet). ?I wonder what percentage increase in performance
> the extra $3000 buys you.
>
> --
> Len Sorensen

Early adopters pay more for their stuff, and remember the Ci7EE was
around $1255 alone.


-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
--
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 15:58:15 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:58:15 -0400
Subject: P1 128RAM
In-Reply-To: <20090803062004.GA23701@precious>
References: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c@mail.gmail.com> <20090802054814.GA24726@waltdnes.org> <20090803062004.GA23701@precious>
Message-ID: <20090807155815.GU2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 11:20:05PM -0700, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote:
> * If a 'modern' distro is going to be used on an old Pentium I system,
> then he'll need to use an 'alternate' install CD as opposed to the
> livecd installs.

Debian's install disc works on a 486 and up.  Seems quite modern,
especially given everyone else seems to be based on it these days.

> * I would suggest rolling your own kernel. Even though modern distros
> try to cover all bases by just compiling a million things as modules,
> some of those modules are loaded by default, whether you want them or
> not. (Case in point: When I insert the kernel AES modules in Ubuntu to
> mount my secure swap space, I get a couple of error messages about
> modules that were not able to load. Tracking these down I found out that
> they are modules for embedded crypto chips on Via Nano/etc
> miniITX/nanoITX boards. The reason that I'm getting errors is that they
> are installed be default and try to load when the kernel AES modules are
> loaded, and fail when they can't communicate with the hardware they are
> for... If these modules were able to load without the hardware being
> present I would have irrelavent modules taking up memory space)

I would stick with the distribution kernel.

> * Debian (as already suggested) or Slackware would probably be good
> choices though Debian is probably the easier choice.
> You'd definitely have to use 'alternate' install CDs for most distros
> out there nowadays. I would probably suggest even rolling your own
> kernel so that you only are using what you need. Most common 'modern'
> distros have tons of crap compiled in or set to load as default modules
> that you probably don't need to make that bad boy run.

Plain old debian installer simply works.  I still run it on my 486/66.
No alternate thingy to worry about.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
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From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 16:02:37 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:02:37 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <20090807154624.GS2989-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com> <20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com> <7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com> <20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net> <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com> <20090807154624.GS2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4A7C501D.40801@telly.org>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> $5200?  Ouch.  I think I spent $2000 or so on an i7 920 system with a
> GTX275 video card.  Still quite decent for gaming I am sure (not been
> tried for that yet).  I wonder what percentage increase in performance
> the extra $3000 buys you.
>   

But even $2000 seems like a lot of money to spend just to avoid getting
a dedicated system:

PS3: $500
Xbox 360: $350
Wii: $280

Notwithstanding what you might think of the Wii's graphics, all of the
above are "quite decent for gaming".

- Evan

--
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 16:07:52 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:07:52 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <4A7C501D.40801-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com> <20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com> <7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com> <20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net> <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com> <20090807154624.GS2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A7C501D.40801@telly.org>
Message-ID: <4A7C5158.9000600@alteeve.com>

Evan Leibovitch wrote:
> Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>> $5200?  Ouch.  I think I spent $2000 or so on an i7 920 system with a
>> GTX275 video card.  Still quite decent for gaming I am sure (not been
>> tried for that yet).  I wonder what percentage increase in performance
>> the extra $3000 buys you.
>>   
> 
> But even $2000 seems like a lot of money to spend just to avoid getting
> a dedicated system:
> 
> PS3: $500
> Xbox 360: $350
> Wii: $280
> 
> Notwithstanding what you might think of the Wii's graphics, all of the
> above are "quite decent for gaming".
> 
> - Evan

There are some games that just don't work well on consoles. EvE Online 
comes to mind... Both from control point of view and graphics. Oooooh 
the graphics. :D

Madi
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 16:15:48 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:15:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Next meeting
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908071213440.19396@castor.opentrend.net>

Afternoon.  The wiki main page says the next meeting is on Tuesday August 
10.

According to the cal command on this Linux system next Tuesday is August 
11.  I can't edit the main page.

Cheers,

Rob

-- 
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html
--
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 16:23:13 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:23:13 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908070855l51c72524ua22c5929b1c31a6e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com> <20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com> <7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com> <20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net> <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com> <20090807154624.GS2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7c50d3570908070855l51c72524ua22c5929b1c31a6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090807162313.GV2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 11:55:48AM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:46, Lennart
> Sorensen<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > $5200? ?Ouch. ?I think I spent $2000 or so on an i7 920 system with a
> > GTX275 video card. ?Still quite decent for gaming I am sure (not been
> > tried for that yet). ?I wonder what percentage increase in performance
> > the extra $3000 buys you.
> >
> > --
> > Len Sorensen
> 
> Early adopters pay more for their stuff, and remember the Ci7EE was
> around $1255 alone.

I know.  That's why I got the 920 instead.  Much much cheaper and only
slightly slower.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 16:32:10 2009
From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:32:10 -0400
Subject: Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908071213440.19396-VmJVFCIrpYC0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908071213440.19396@castor.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <f646b91f0908070932v759494eew378f121ea7ee6c55@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/7/09, Robert Brockway <robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Afternoon.  The wiki main page says the next meeting is on Tuesday August
> 10.
>
> According to the cal command on this Linux system next Tuesday is August
> 11.  I can't edit the main page.

Thanks for catching that. Fixed now.

Colin McGregor

> Cheers,
>
> Rob
>
> --
> I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
> Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 16:35:35 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:35:35 -0400
Subject: Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <f646b91f0908070932v759494eew378f121ea7ee6c55-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908071213440.19396@castor.opentrend.net> 
	<f646b91f0908070932v759494eew378f121ea7ee6c55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908070935x780deec6kf394321b66a2c025@mail.gmail.com>

I may or may not show up for the next meeting, because it falls on my
33rd birthday....

-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 16:37:36 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:37:36 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <4A7C501D.40801-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com> 
	<7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net> <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090807154624.GS2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A7C501D.40801@telly.org>
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908070937i4a1e4c5cmb9db8ec0c07845b1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 12:02, Evan Leibovitch<evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> PS3: $500
> Xbox 360: $350
> Wii: $280
>
> Notwithstanding what you might think of the Wii's graphics, all of the
> above are "quite decent for gaming".
>
> - Evan

Believe me, I was considering doing that on Boxing Day as well as
buying at least a 40" to 52" HDTV, but I wanted a computer instead.


-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 16:38:45 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:38:45 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <20090807162313.GV2989-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com> 
	<7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net> <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090807154624.GS2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7c50d3570908070855l51c72524ua22c5929b1c31a6e@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090807162313.GV2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908070938s346dcea4jbaec08ed2a661025@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 12:23, Lennart
Sorensen<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I know. ?That's why I got the 920 instead. ?Much much cheaper and only
> slightly slower.
>
> --
> Len Sorensen

I could have actually gone on a trip somewhere outside of North
America for the first time in my life, well, it just means saving
money to finally do so eventually.


-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
--
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From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 16:44:18 2009
From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:44:18 -0400
Subject: openvpn routed and bridged
In-Reply-To: <4A7C3646.40803-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A79C16C.1030607@rogers.com> <4A79C486.1040600@gmail.com> <4A7AC923.4010404@tmis.ca> <4A7C3646.40803@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C59E2.7090608@tmis.ca>

VPN clients connecting to an OpenVPN routed server can only talk to the 
OpenVPN server itself.

VPN clients connecting to an OpenVPN bridged clients can talk to 
everything on the remote LAN.

You say an OpenVPN bridged requires ends to be on the same subnet, and 
you use your laptop from a variety of locations.

I have not tested my OpenVPN bridge without portforwarding 1194/udp to 
my OpenVPN client. I do not think it will work without the 
portforwarding. (I have been known to be wrong before :)

If thats true, I can only connect to my OpenVPN bridge when I have 
access to the local router. (to portforward 1194/udp)

Fortunately I have another OpenVPN server that uses routed :)
If you need to work remotely to the office lan you gotta have bridged.

/teddy


James Knott wrote:
> teddy mills wrote:
>> I dont even bother changing the router.
>>
>> On both sides of the openvpn connection, openvpn-server and
>> openvpn-client I portforward 1194/udp.
>>
>> I pick any NAT address PC as the openvpn-server and on the other side,
>> any NAT address PC as a openvpn-client.
>>
>> I have done this with openvpn-bridge, so I would imagine the simpler
>> openvpn-routed would work in this fashion as well.
>>
>> I will post the way I use openvpn-setup bridge to tlug.
>> I use PCKS12, so I do not bother too much with all the other cert files.
> 
> I have considered doing that, but I'd prefer having the VPN on the
> router.  Also, I use a routed VPN rather than bridged.  IIRC, a bridged
> VPN requires both ends to be on the same subnet, which is not possible,
> as I use my VPN from a variety of locations.  With a routed VPN, I'd
> also have to run the DHCP server on a local computer, so that computers
> getting an IP address via DHCP can get the additional route.  The the
> DHCP servers in consumer level routers do not support anything beyond a
> default route.
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 17:06:39 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:06:39 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <20090804194555.GA20889-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <20090807170639.GW2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 03:45:55PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote:
> Does anyone have experience or can recommend a good resource for
> high-performance parallel programming?
> 
> Specifically, I have been asked to help one of my colleagues parallelize
> a simulation.  Ideally I would like to be able to run it on many, many
> Linux machines via Amazon Web Services or similar service, but it would
> be great to maximize an arbitrary number of cores as well as
> physical/virtual machines.  Thanks.

Loop up OpenMPI.  As far as I can tell most clusters support OpenMPI,
and it is quite efficient for SMP systems too (folding at home uses MPI
for the SMP client).

An application designed around the OpenMPI interface should be really
easy to make run on anything with pretty good efficiency.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 17:09:18 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:09:18 -0400
Subject: The Debian System book
In-Reply-To: <7776e6903d5597dd85553de08fd26e2c-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <7776e6903d5597dd85553de08fd26e2c@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <20090807170918.GX2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 12:21:07PM -0400, meng wrote:
> Has anyone read "The Debian System" by Martin F. Krafft, http://debiansystem.info/ ?
> I'm wondering if it's worth getting, it's dated 2005 and covers "Sarge".
> 
> Or should I just stick with the Debian Reference manual, http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ ?
> If it covers the same ground, I might as well refer to the online documentation.

I never buy computer books, because they are always obsolete by the time
they are in print.  Online references are much easier to keep up to date.
Certainly sarge is irrelevant now, given it has been replaced twice now
(etch and lenny).  Major changes have happened.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 17:15:37 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:15:37 -0400
Subject: Storage Area Network as a tlug meeting topic
In-Reply-To: <4A79BA40.8050605-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870904291529v75fd176bx1ed66d6fc69ec4e3@mail.gmail.com> <d6d6637f0904300901l1a41fd0la2a9ee0970341e16@mail.gmail.com> <4A79BA40.8050605@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090807171537.GY2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 12:58:40PM -0400, Mark Lane wrote:
> The article does not give support for the claim by Oliver Ratzesberger  
> that 15K drives are 10x faster than 7200RPM drives. Maybe they are but  
> it doesn't really matter when dealing with a lot of drives. You only get  
> an advantage of a faster disk when you are running single or small  
> arrays of disks. If you have a large array, the bandwidth of your bus or  
> storage network will be the limiting factor and not the drives  
> themselves. When I was designing NAS boxes, we found that it would only  
> take 4 7200RPM SATA 1 drives to max out a PCI-X bus using RAID 5 and  
> 3ware card. So if I had 4 15RPM drives you might get better seek times  
> but the overall transfer rate will not be any better than the 4 7200RPM  
> drives. I guess if you have an application that requires seeking a lot  
> of small files and not a lot of bandwidth, the 15K RPM will still be  
> faster but for most applications it won't be.

It is not about bandwidth.  It is about access time.

A 15000rpm drive takes half as long to rotate to a given piece of data
as a 7200rpm drive.  At the same time, it is a samller platter so the
maximum seek time is reduced too.  Of course you loose 85% of the capacity
the 7200rpm drive gives you but you can get to a given piece of data in
less than half the time of the 7200 rpm drive.  You combine lots of those
15k drives to increase bandwidth and storage space back to what you need.

> Also the article talked about cheap drives being optimized for power  
> consumption and not performance and reliability. While this is true for  
> desktop drives, the article fails to mention that for not a lot of more  
> money you can get RAID edition SATA drives from WD and Seagate that are  
> actually rated for performance and reliability.
>
> Ultimately, the decision will come down to the executives. They assume  
> that SCSI, Fiber Channel are enterprise class hardware and SATA isn't. I  
> was at a Western Digital presentation once where they were showing of  
> drives that were equivalent in performance and reliability to SCSI  
> offering yet the still refrained from referring to them as enterprise  
> class. Yet Google has no problem using commodity hard drives.

SCSI (parallel) is dead.  SAS is what you use these days.  No single
point of failure (scsi bus) anymore, and dual ported (so you can connect
every drive to redundant controllers).

> If you need a ton of storage, cheaper SATA drives are definitely much  
> more cost effective. You can even get them with 5 year warranties.

If you need cheap storage or raw throughput for large files being streamed
then a 7200rpm sata drive is a good choice.  If you need low latency
random access, then a 15k SAS drive is your choice or better yet, you
go to solid state drives instead since they have no seek or rotational
latency at all.

> Fiber Channel based SANs are not even the fastest storage networks out  
> there. They are just very well established in the enterprise. Running  
> iSCSI over 10Gig Ethernet or Myrinet will give you a much fastest  
> Storage Network.

Certainly.  FC is getting a bit old these days.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 17:22:46 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:22:46 -0400
Subject: colors in EPS imported by LaTeX
In-Reply-To: <4A785F6D.9050007-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A78101D.1010904@gmail.com> <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908040927430.4370@doublethink> <4A785F6D.9050007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090807172246.GZ2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 08:18:53PM +0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote:
> Thanks Peter and Chris. I have got some things working. A way to learn,  
> but the beginning is always the most difficult.
> I am amazed by how LaTeX and Postscript are tolerable to incorrect code.  
> Well... at the same time that does not necessary make life  easier...
>
> Regarding xfig, a few years ago I used to write perl scripts that would  
> generate directely xfig format graphs (since xfig format is a plain  
> ASCII) but I forget it now. Now, I am sure that it is possible to write  
> by hand (or by perl) PS code that would generate nice, simple graphs.  
> Someone send here an example some time ago, possibly Chris. Anyway, now  
> I will be able to find out my way.

If you look here:
http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/foster/postscript.html
you will see some of the insanities that can be done in postscript.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
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From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 18:40:35 2009
From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:40:35 -0400
Subject: openvpn routed and bridged
In-Reply-To: <4A7C59E2.7090608-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A79C16C.1030607@rogers.com> <4A79C486.1040600@gmail.com>
	 <4A7AC923.4010404@tmis.ca> <4A7C3646.40803@rogers.com>
	 <4A7C59E2.7090608@tmis.ca>
Message-ID: <daf2a09e0908071140i5e8157cbu31c85b6fb4095f19@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 12:44 PM, teddy mills <teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> VPN clients connecting to an OpenVPN routed server can only talk to the
> OpenVPN server itself.
>

Yeah no that's not right. You can setup the OpenVPN server as a router with
or without NAT to provide access to the whole lan. One of the easiest setups
is to use two wrt54GLs as servers to join the two networks. You could use
bridging but I would think routing is easier as you don't need to worry
about the remote networks having the same IPs. Of course you do have to
worry about routing tables so you may need to use rip or something to
broadcast the routes.

A routed VPN with DD-WRT and OpenVPN ---- http://theorum.net/blog/?p=22

My concern with using 2 wrt54GLs for a VPN is how much encrypted bandwidth
are they going to be able to handle. Anyone set something like that up? Any
benchmarks?

-- 
Mark Lane <lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
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From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 18:49:09 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:49:09 -0400
Subject: Any experience with Komodo?
Message-ID: <4A7C7725.6050206@telly.org>


Komodo is claimed to be an application development environment that
makes programming easier.

It's not open source, but works with languages that are (perl, php,
ruby, phython, etc...)

Does anyone here have comments, good or bad, about it?
How about the ActiveState Perl Development Kit?

Thanks!

- Evan

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 19:43:16 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:43:16 -0400
Subject: Any experience with Komodo?
In-Reply-To: <4A7C7725.6050206-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A7C7725.6050206@telly.org>
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908071243x585ab396wb3ac5e8a7ca79632@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 14:49, Evan Leibovitch<evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Komodo is claimed to be an application development environment that
> makes programming easier.
>
> It's not open source, but works with languages that are (perl, php,
> ruby, phython, etc...)
>
> Does anyone here have comments, good or bad, about it?
> How about the ActiveState Perl Development Kit?
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Evan

I used to use Komodo, but only for HTML, and that was more or less
after it first came out and haven't used it since, so I am unable to
be any help to you.


-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
--
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 19:51:58 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:51:58 -0400
Subject: Any experience with Komodo?
In-Reply-To: <4A7C7725.6050206-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A7C7725.6050206@telly.org>
Message-ID: <4A7C85DE.4090807@alteeve.com>

Evan Leibovitch wrote:
> Komodo is claimed to be an application development environment that
> makes programming easier.
> 
> It's not open source, but works with languages that are (perl, php,
> ruby, phython, etc...)
> 
> Does anyone here have comments, good or bad, about it?
> How about the ActiveState Perl Development Kit?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> - Evan

I had to evaluate it a year ago and at the time I couldn't see any 
compelling reason to use (pay) for it over something like Kate.

Madi
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 20:00:38 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:00:38 -0400
Subject: openvpn routed and bridged
In-Reply-To: <4A7C59E2.7090608-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A79C16C.1030607@rogers.com> <4A79C486.1040600@gmail.com> <4A7AC923.4010404@tmis.ca> <4A7C3646.40803@rogers.com> <4A7C59E2.7090608@tmis.ca>
Message-ID: <4A7C87E6.3000104@rogers.com>

teddy mills wrote:
> VPN clients connecting to an OpenVPN routed server can only talk to
> the OpenVPN server itself.

If the server is configured as a router, you can talk to the entire
lan.  This is what I was doing, when I had a Linux firewall set up with
OpenVPN.  Unfortunately, the computer I was using for the
router/firewall gave it's life in that thunderstorm on Thursday (yes, it
was on a UPS)
>
> VPN clients connecting to an OpenVPN bridged clients can talk to
> everything on the remote LAN.
>
> You say an OpenVPN bridged requires ends to be on the same subnet, and
> you use your laptop from a variety of locations.

Any bridge requires all devices to be on the same subnet, even if some
are at a remote location.  This is not dependent on OpenVPN.  The bridge
could be an old ethernet bridge, an ethernet switch, PPP link or
whatever.  A bridge is a bride.
>
> I have not tested my OpenVPN bridge without portforwarding 1194/udp to
> my OpenVPN client. I do not think it will work without the
> portforwarding. (I have been known to be wrong before :)
>
It's not the forwarding that concerns me.  I've often used that in the
past for a variety of applications.  Rather, if I terminate the routed
VPN on a computer, then I can no longer send everything to the default
gateway and let it sort things out.  I have to separately route VPN
traffic to the computer where it terminates.  That requires any device
configured with DHCP to be told of the VPN route.  As I mentioned,
consumer level routers don't support doing that.  So, I'd have to
configure one of the computers as the DHCP server, to do it.  I suppose
I could configure the router DHCP server to point to the VPN computer as
the default gateway and let it use ICMP redirects to sort things out,
but that's messy.
> If thats true, I can only connect to my OpenVPN bridge when I have
> access to the local router. (to portforward 1194/udp)
>
> Fortunately I have another OpenVPN server that uses routed :)
> If you need to work remotely to the office lan you gotta have bridged.
>

No it doesn't.  I have never used a bridged VPN, always routed.  This
applies to OpenVPN, CIPE, IPSec, Windows PPTP etc.  With my own network,
I could access any device via the VPN, no matter where I was.  At work,
I could access remote servers etc., via IPSec VPN, again routed.

Bottom line, while I could set up the VPN on a computer, it would be
"cleaner", if it could be done on the router.  I do have the LinkSys
WRT54G, which runs Linux and apparently, with new software, can support
OpenVPN.  The question is how?


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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 20:01:16 2009
From: me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:01:16 -0400
Subject: Any experience with Komodo?
In-Reply-To: <4A7C7725.6050206-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A7C7725.6050206@telly.org>
Message-ID: <b888d7b10908071301g5a9f0d08odad6429a3ff94089@mail.gmail.com>

First I have only used Komodo for Python.

It was an okay for an IDE I wouldn't say it made the development process faster
or easier.

I have used the Komodo Edit (the open source and free version) and Komodo
and in terms of my development process I didn't find a huge difference between
the two.

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Evan Leibovitch<evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Komodo is claimed to be an application development environment that
> makes programming easier.
>
> It's not open source, but works with languages that are (perl, php,
> ruby, phython, etc...)
>
> Does anyone here have comments, good or bad, about it?
> How about the ActiveState Perl Development Kit?
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Evan
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

-- 
Myles Braithwaite
me-qIX3qoPyADtH8hdXm2+x1laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org
http://mylesbraithwaite.com/
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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 20:09:54 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:09:54 -0400
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues, does this mean carbon composite 
	has issues?
In-Reply-To: <20090807155521.GT2989-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A758D2F.9070901@rogers.com>
	 <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel@petelancashire.com>
	 <4A771A0F.3050403@telly.org>
	 <b8f780870908031120o6e43033cg775ceee9479a1b99@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090807155521.GT2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908071309s1559255fua0f7c0fb3d275b18@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> They were using the same software.  Unfortunately one location had
> upgraded to the latest version, while the other one was one version
> behind and had not yet gotten around to upgrading.  The two versions
> did not talk to each other directly, so they didn't get to immedialtly
> see the combination of their work and any conflicts it caused.
>

Got that. I wonder if they still use the same software after it caused them
to loose millions of dollars?  This is one case where backward compatibility
was very important.

Regards,

William

>
> --
> Len Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 20:12:51 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:12:51 -0400
Subject: Fedora and cpu usage
In-Reply-To: <200907311043.58874.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200907311043.58874.icanprogram@295.ca>
Message-ID: <20090807201250.GA2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:43:57AM -0400, bob 295 wrote:
> I'm running stock Fedora 10 along with an A-D card which is interrupt driven.     
> The card is configured so that the interrupts are occurring every 8msec as 
> determined by an external clock.
> 
> Here is a snip from some tracing info written to a file:
> 
> =========== begin snip =========
> delta_usec[1719] = 8346 toTrigger =78 toFileMgr=348
> delta_usec[1720] = 8324 toTrigger =59 toFileMgr=314
> delta_usec[1721] = 8323 toTrigger =42 toFileMgr=296
> delta_usec[1724] = 24991 toTrigger =891 toFileMgr=1125
> delta_usec[1724] = 0 toTrigger =6042 toFileMgr=6318
> delta_usec[1724] = 0 toTrigger =7328 toFileMgr=7715
> delta_usec[1725] = 8470 toTrigger =1691 toFileMgr=1916
> delta_usec[1726] = 8218 toTrigger =55 toFileMgr=305
> delta_usec[1727] = 8354 toTrigger =44 toFileMgr=299
> =========== end snip ============
> 
> The first delta_usec refers to the inter interrupt spacing.   The item in the 
> [] is the interrupt sequence number.   The toTrigger and toFileMgr refer to 
> timing points further into the multiple process application.
> 
> The question is what could have happened to the Linux system (otherwise not 
> used for any other purpose than this test) in and around seq number 1721.   
> The interrupts 1722 and 1723 still happened otherwise the sequence number 
> would not have incremented to 1724.   The repeated 1724 is a result of an 
> overwrite on some global variables.   In reality they are the triggers for 
> 1722 and 1723.   Similarly the 0 is an artifact because our trace timing 
> variable also was overwritten.    The 24991 usec lag is real and is about 
> right for those extra clock ticks ... although there is no real way to know 
> if they happened at 8msec intervals.   
> 
> What appears to have happened is all was ticking along smoothly with the Linux 
> kernel servicing the interrupt every 8msec or so and handing it off to the 
> application, who then handled things within 300usec or so.    All of sudden, 
> with the kernel still handling the interrupts on time,  the rest of the Linux 
> system became very busy for over 25msec.
> 
> This is Fedora 10 running on a 1GHz processor.    The Linux box is on a 
> dedicated network with one other node and is otherwise not running any other 
> applications other than KDE while this test is performed.
> 
> Any thoughts on what could be causing this?    Is it something to do with the 
> file system writing that trace file?     There doesn't appear to be any 
> correlation to these outliers and the scheduled cron jobs like log rotate.
> 
> I'm trying to avoid the complication of adding the RTAI real time Linux patch.

Does the system have any SMM (system management mode) stuff?

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 20:15:16 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:15:16 -0700
Subject: Games
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908071315u4c502e94m5394c960959742ad@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Madison Kelly<linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Evan Leibovitch wrote:
>>
>> Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>>>
>>> $5200? ?Ouch. ?I think I spent $2000 or so on an i7 920 system with a
>>> GTX275 video card. ?Still quite decent for gaming I am sure (not been
>>> tried for that yet). ?I wonder what percentage increase in performance
>>> the extra $3000 buys you.
>>>
>>
>> But even $2000 seems like a lot of money to spend just to avoid getting
>> a dedicated system:
>>
>> PS3: $500
>> Xbox 360: $350
>> Wii: $280
>>
>> Notwithstanding what you might think of the Wii's graphics, all of the
>> above are "quite decent for gaming".
>>
>> - Evan
>
> There are some games that just don't work well on consoles. EvE Online comes
> to mind... Both from control point of view and graphics. Oooooh the
> graphics. :D
>
> Madi
> --

I'm looking forward to "Jumpgate Evolution" myself. No native Linux
client planned (response in the forums was "unlikely" which is pretty
much the same as "no") so I guess I'll have to hope on it working with
Cedega/Wine
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 20:29:35 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:29:35 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net>
	 <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com>
	 <7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net>
	 <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908071329m7d7369aavab989e14634627c5@mail.gmail.com>

>
> I don't own any of the consoles, the computer that I built cost me
> $5200 -- it's a Ci7 EE build -- and I only buy a few games: RPGs, RTS,
> FPS/TPS, MMOs (and also play the F2P MMOs as well), and some games I
> get through other means, just like certain esoteric movies from the
> past, got to love cinemageddon.  So, yes, I am a Gamer, but not a
> console Gamer, although I do plan on buying a console again, I just
> don't see the need yet.
>


Hmm,  that sound a little pricey that my first thought was this had to be a
typo. In fact, I never thought a computer could cost that much after 2000
when the industry matured.

Michael, just curious, did you ever feel like that was not a good idea later
and would you do it again?

William

>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael Lauzon
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 20:42:59 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:42:59 -0400
Subject: openvpn routed and bridged
In-Reply-To: <daf2a09e0908071140i5e8157cbu31c85b6fb4095f19-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A79C16C.1030607@rogers.com> <4A79C486.1040600@gmail.com>	 <4A7AC923.4010404@tmis.ca> <4A7C3646.40803@rogers.com>	 <4A7C59E2.7090608@tmis.ca> <daf2a09e0908071140i5e8157cbu31c85b6fb4095f19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C91D3.9000003@rogers.com>

Mark Lane wrote:
>
> My concern with using 2 wrt54GLs for a VPN is how much encrypted
> bandwidth are they going to be able to handle. Anyone set something
> like that up? Any benchmarks?
>

On a cable modem or ADSL connection, the bandwidth is limited by the
upload speed, which is typically no more than 1 Mb/s.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 20:46:06 2009
From: edchin99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (edward chin)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:46:06 -0400
Subject: P1 128RAM
In-Reply-To: <20090807155815.GU2989-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090802054814.GA24726@waltdnes.org>
	 <20090803062004.GA23701@precious>
	 <20090807155815.GU2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <8369b0fa0908071346s30e9ee61r138f116763ea1755@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to all for your suggestions. Len, again, seems to have gotten
it just right.
So far, the only recent distro to work is Debian, but configuring and
learning to navigate a new desktop is a chore. The best solution seems
to be Knoppix 3.2,  3.4,  or 3.7  which I have. I would try mandriva
6.5 if I could find it.
Since this acer entra mmx P1 233 is too slow for video to play
properly - email, slow surfing, and word processing seem to be its
limit. I'm not sure who to give this to.  The hdd is 2gig so there is
a little gain over the win98 on it previously.
The video improved with a newer (1998) pci video card. I upped the ram to 256.



On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Lennart
Sorensen<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 11:20:05PM -0700, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote:
>> * If a 'modern' distro is going to be used on an old Pentium I system,
>> then he'll need to use an 'alternate' install CD as opposed to the
>> livecd installs.
>
> Debian's install disc works on a 486 and up. ?Seems quite modern,
> especially given everyone else seems to be based on it these days.
>
>> * I would suggest rolling your own kernel. Even though modern distros
>> try to cover all bases by just compiling a million things as modules,
>> some of those modules are loaded by default, whether you want them or
>> not. (Case in point: When I insert the kernel AES modules in Ubuntu to
>> mount my secure swap space, I get a couple of error messages about
>> modules that were not able to load. Tracking these down I found out that
>> they are modules for embedded crypto chips on Via Nano/etc
>> miniITX/nanoITX boards. The reason that I'm getting errors is that they
>> are installed be default and try to load when the kernel AES modules are
>> loaded, and fail when they can't communicate with the hardware they are
>> for... If these modules were able to load without the hardware being
>> present I would have irrelavent modules taking up memory space)
>
> I would stick with the distribution kernel.
>
>> * Debian (as already suggested) or Slackware would probably be good
>> choices though Debian is probably the easier choice.
>> You'd definitely have to use 'alternate' install CDs for most distros
>> out there nowadays. I would probably suggest even rolling your own
>> kernel so that you only are using what you need. Most common 'modern'
>> distros have tons of crap compiled in or set to load as default modules
>> that you probably don't need to make that bad boy run.
>
> Plain old debian installer simply works. ?I still run it on my 486/66.
> No alternate thingy to worry about.
>
> --
> Len Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 20:48:54 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:48:54 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908071329m7d7369aavab989e14634627c5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com> 
	<7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net> <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com> 
	<b8f780870908071329m7d7369aavab989e14634627c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908071348n7af6964do213cdfad82ac4a64@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 16:29, William
Muriithi<william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Hmm,? that sound a little pricey that my first thought was this had to be a
> typo. In fact, I never thought a computer could cost that much after 2000
> when the industry matured.
>
> Michael, just curious, did you ever feel like that was not a good idea later
> and would you do it again?
>
> William

Yeah, I'd probably do it again, but the price was because I was an
early adopter of a lot of the computer parts.  I could have easily
bought all 3 consoles and a big screen HDTV instead, or went on a trip
outside of NA which I've never done before.  But, there's still time
for that.


-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 20:49:34 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:49:34 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908071329m7d7369aavab989e14634627c5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com> <20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com> <7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com> <20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net> <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com> <b8f780870908071329m7d7369aavab989e14634627c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090807204934.GB2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 04:29:35PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote:
> >
> > I don't own any of the consoles, the computer that I built cost me
> > $5200 -- it's a Ci7 EE build -- and I only buy a few games: RPGs, RTS,
> > FPS/TPS, MMOs (and also play the F2P MMOs as well), and some games I
> > get through other means, just like certain esoteric movies from the
> > past, got to love cinemageddon.  So, yes, I am a Gamer, but not a
> > console Gamer, although I do plan on buying a console again, I just
> > don't see the need yet.
> >
> 
> 
> Hmm,  that sound a little pricey that my first thought was this had to be a
> typo. In fact, I never thought a computer could cost that much after 2000
> when the industry matured.
> 
> Michael, just curious, did you ever feel like that was not a good idea later
> and would you do it again?

You can easily do:
$1250 for the CPU
$500 for the motherboard
$500 for ram
$500 x 2 for video cards
$300 for power supply
$300 for a nice case
$500 on some HDs
$2000 on a nice 30" screen
etc.

Back in 97 my father got a PPro 200 system for CAD use.  Total with
taxes came to around $11000.  That was for a 128MB system with 4.5GB
scsi drive, a scsi jaz drive and a 12x scsi plextor CD-ROM drive, and
an 8MB RAGE II card.  System still runs great although these days it is
doing firewall and fileserver duties (it has lost all the scsi bits now,
but everything else is still original).  Oh and it included a 21"
Hitache CRT.

His first CAD system in 92 was a 486DX50 with 8MB ram and a 3MB $1700
video card and 213MB HD.  It had a 20" Mitsubishi CRT.

These days he has a Core 2 Duo with 4GB ram, 500GB HD and a Quadro FX
3700 256MB video card.  Probably the cheapest system he has had so far.
So prices are dropping.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 20:51:22 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:51:22 -0400
Subject: P1 128RAM
In-Reply-To: <8369b0fa0908071346s30e9ee61r138f116763ea1755-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c@mail.gmail.com> <20090802054814.GA24726@waltdnes.org> <20090803062004.GA23701@precious> <20090807155815.GU2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <8369b0fa0908071346s30e9ee61r138f116763ea1755@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090807205121.GC2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 04:46:06PM -0400, edward chin wrote:
> Thanks to all for your suggestions. Len, again, seems to have gotten
> it just right.
> So far, the only recent distro to work is Debian, but configuring and
> learning to navigate a new desktop is a chore. The best solution seems
> to be Knoppix 3.2,  3.4,  or 3.7  which I have. I would try mandriva
> 6.5 if I could find it.
> Since this acer entra mmx P1 233 is too slow for video to play
> properly - email, slow surfing, and word processing seem to be its
> limit. I'm not sure who to give this to.  The hdd is 2gig so there is
> a little gain over the win98 on it previously.
> The video improved with a newer (1998) pci video card. I upped the ram to 256.

Debian includes packages for all the desktops.  It just defaults to gnome
(which is probably the most reliable and mature although also probably
the least interesting).

Installing the 'kde' or 'kde-full' package should yank that in.  There are
packages for xfce and others as well.

The display manager login should have a menu for selecting which of the
installed desktop environments you want to use.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 20:53:59 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:53:59 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <20090807204934.GB2989-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com> 
	<7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net> <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com> 
	<b8f780870908071329m7d7369aavab989e14634627c5@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090807204934.GB2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908071353s1ac166e6h8f50b03c3eed85f3@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 16:49, Lennart
Sorensen<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> You can easily do:
> $1250 for the CPU
> $500 for the motherboard
> $500 for ram
> $500 x 2 for video cards
> $300 for power supply
> $300 for a nice case
> $500 on some HDs
> $2000 on a nice 30" screen
> etc.
>
> --
> Len Sorensen

Here is my build:

CPU: Intel Core i7 965 @ 3.2GHz
Mobo: ASUS Rampage II Extreme
RAM: G.SKILL Pi Black DDR3-1600 PC3-12800 6GB CL 8-8-8-21
Vcard: Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 X2
HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB (2)
DVD: LG GH22NS30 DVD Writer
PSU: Corsair HX1000W
OS1: Windows XP Professional
OS2: Windows Vista Home Premium x64
Case: Cooler Master HAF 932
Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster 245T
Keyboard: Razer Lycosa Mirror
Mouse: Razer Lachesis Wraith Red
Mousepad: Razer Destructor


-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:06:18 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:06:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Fedora and cpu usage
In-Reply-To: <20090807201250.GA2989-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200907311043.58874.icanprogram@295.ca> <20090807201250.GA2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908071703290.23288@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>

| Does the system have any SMM (system management mode) stuff?

How does one go about finding out?  That stuff tries to be invisible.
Of course it fails in the latency department.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:08:14 2009
From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:08:14 -0400
Subject: Free to a new home: Sparc processor systems
Message-ID: <00f301ca17a3$2e652890$8b2f79b0$@com>

Hello All,

I have 2 Sun blade 100 machines. One has no Ram, the other has 512 MB of
RAM. They both have 40GB hard drives and are in working condition. These
take standard IDE devices, keyboards and monitors.

 

If you are also interested, I have an older Alpha workstation.

 

I am located in Brampton. 

 

 

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:13:19 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:13:19 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908071353s1ac166e6h8f50b03c3eed85f3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com> <20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com> <7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com> <20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net> <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com> <b8f780870908071329m7d7369aavab989e14634627c5@mail.gmail.com> <20090807204934.GB2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7c50d3570908071353s1ac166e6h8f50b03c3eed85f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090807211319.GD2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 04:53:59PM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 16:49, Lennart
> Sorensen<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > You can easily do:
> > $1250 for the CPU
> > $500 for the motherboard
> > $500 for ram
> > $500 x 2 for video cards
> > $300 for power supply
> > $300 for a nice case
> > $500 on some HDs
> > $2000 on a nice 30" screen
> > etc.
> >
> > --
> > Len Sorensen
> 
> Here is my build:
> 
> CPU: Intel Core i7 965 @ 3.2GHz
> Mobo: ASUS Rampage II Extreme
> RAM: G.SKILL Pi Black DDR3-1600 PC3-12800 6GB CL 8-8-8-21
> Vcard: Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 X2
> HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB (2)
> DVD: LG GH22NS30 DVD Writer
> PSU: Corsair HX1000W
> OS1: Windows XP Professional
> OS2: Windows Vista Home Premium x64
> Case: Cooler Master HAF 932
> Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster 245T
> Keyboard: Razer Lycosa Mirror
> Mouse: Razer Lachesis Wraith Red
> Mousepad: Razer Destructor

In my case I used:
CPU: Intel Core i7 920 D) @ 2.66GHz
Motherboard: Asus P6T
RAM: G.SKILL F3-10666CL9T-6GBNQ 6GB DDR3 3X2GB DDR3-1333 CL 9-9-9-24
(because I actually want to be able to use all 6 slots with this kind of
ram later.  The 1600 ram can not be used with more than 3 sticks total).
Vcard: EVGA GTX 275 OC (I don't put up with ATI drivers or customer
support).
HDD: 2 x WD5000AAKS (leftover from mythtv upgrade to WD1001 drives)
DVD: I think I got some LG DVD writer too
PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 610.  (I like single rail designs and
it is quiet)
OS1: Debian Unstable
OS2: Windows 7 RC
Case: Silverstone TJ-04B
Monitor: Dell 2408WFP
Keyboard: Logitech Internet 350
Mouse: Logitech Nano VX
Mousepad: Ehm, something I had lying around

Of course the purpose of this box isn't technicly gaming, but actually
computer science work since that is what my wife is currently working
on a PhD in and it is her machine now.  You can do a lot of work on
a GTX275.  About 1Tflop if 32bit floats are precise enough for you.
The 4 core (8 thread) 920 does nicely too.

I was a bit surprised that my favoured case (the TJ04) actually had a
problem in this case.  The GTX 275 does not fit in the case.  I had to
use a dremel on one drive bay on one side of the HD cage to add an extra
2 cm of space for the video card.  That was a first.  Next time I will
probably use the TJ09 instead.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:14:39 2009
From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:14:39 -0400
Subject: Free to a new home: Older laptops
Message-ID: <00fc01ca17a4$141d9980$3c58cc80$@com>

Hello All

I have 

2x DELL 233Mhz/64Mb 

1xToshiba teccra 400MHZ

1x Dell 1GHZ

 

 

All four laptops are in working condition but may be missing drives or
memory. I am located in Brampton.

 

 

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:17:09 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:17:09 -0400
Subject: Free to a new home: Sparc processor systems
In-Reply-To: <00f301ca17a3$2e652890$8b2f79b0$@com>
References: <00f301ca17a3$2e652890$8b2f79b0$@com>
Message-ID: <20090807211709.GE2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 05:08:14PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote:
> I have 2 Sun blade 100 machines. One has no Ram, the other has 512 MB of
> RAM. They both have 40GB hard drives and are in working condition. These
> take standard IDE devices, keyboards and monitors.

Hmm, I don't know that model.  Probably newer than my sparc 10.

Sounds like a fun machine to play with.

> If you are also interested, I have an older Alpha workstation.

Hehe, I already have 4 alpha workstations.  What kind do you have there?

> I am located in Brampton. 

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:12:11 2009
From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:12:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Any experience with Komodo?
In-Reply-To: <4A7C7725.6050206-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A7C7725.6050206@telly.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908071709230.22326@rosette.pegasoft.ca>


I tried Komodo Edit last year (on Windows at work).  It ran very slowly on 
my system.  I didn't see any features that made it significantly better 
than, say, using Notepad++ for development.

You could run kdevelop through virtualization if that's an option.  I use 
kdevelop via colinux/Fedora Core 10.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken O. Burtch                                       Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848
   "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash"                  Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
   "Perl Phrasebook"                 Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 7 Aug 2009, Evan Leibovitch wrote:

>
> Komodo is claimed to be an application development environment that
> makes programming easier.
>
> It's not open source, but works with languages that are (perl, php,
> ruby, phython, etc...)
>
> Does anyone here have comments, good or bad, about it?
> How about the ActiveState Perl Development Kit?
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Evan
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:20:04 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:20:04 -0400
Subject: Fedora and cpu usage
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908071703290.23288-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <200907311043.58874.icanprogram@295.ca> <20090807201250.GA2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908071703290.23288@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <20090807212004.GF2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 05:06:18PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> | From: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>
> 
> | Does the system have any SMM (system management mode) stuff?
> 
> How does one go about finding out?  That stuff tries to be invisible.
> Of course it fails in the latency department.Z

I remember one of the redhat presenters at linux symposium mentioned the
existance of an SMM detector tool.  Essentially it tried to notice when
the system suddenly disappeared for a while and record for how long.
I can't seem to find the tool though.

Apparently it is useful for testing servers and other systems.  The people
that run real time systems require systems without SMM and need to test.
Otherwise if they come and complain and they don't use hardware that is
known to not have SMM, then no one can promise that they can do real time.
It simply isn't possible.  The list of x86 systems that can actually be
used for real time these days is very very short.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:24:45 2009
From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:24:45 -0400
Subject: Free to a new home: Older laptops
In-Reply-To: <00fc01ca17a4$141d9980$3c58cc80$@com>
References: <00fc01ca17a4$141d9980$3c58cc80$@com>
Message-ID: <32f6a8880908071424od4a40ecv5dac5baf231faf75@mail.gmail.com>

Can i get the 1xdell 1ghz?

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Ansar Mohammed<ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hello All
>
> I have
>
> 2x DELL 233Mhz/64Mb
>
> 1xToshiba teccra 400MHZ
>
> 1x Dell 1GHZ
>
>
>
>
>
> All four laptops are in working condition but may be missing drives or
> memory. I am located in Brampton.
>
>
>
>



-- 



Dave Germiquet
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:24:50 2009
From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:24:50 -0400
Subject: Free to a new home: Sparc processor systems
In-Reply-To: <20090807211709.GE2989-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <00f301ca17a3$2e652890$8b2f79b0$@com> <20090807211709.GE2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <011a01ca17a5$804f16f0$80ed44d0$@com>

I am dropping one for Colin downtown tonight..

If you want I can throw the other two into the trunk, let me know.

I also have an ITX (running openbsd) with an external drive if you are
interested.

The Alpha is the personal workstation 433. 




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart
Sorensen
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:17 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Free to a new home: Sparc processor systems

On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 05:08:14PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote:
> I have 2 Sun blade 100 machines. One has no Ram, the other has 512 MB of
> RAM. They both have 40GB hard drives and are in working condition. These
> take standard IDE devices, keyboards and monitors.

Hmm, I don't know that model.  Probably newer than my sparc 10.

Sounds like a fun machine to play with.

> If you are also interested, I have an older Alpha workstation.

Hehe, I already have 4 alpha workstations.  What kind do you have there?

> I am located in Brampton. 

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:29:58 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:29:58 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <20090807211319.GD2989-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570907301049l7fa63d90i61ff66d819a25662@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com> 
	<7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net> <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com> 
	<b8f780870908071329m7d7369aavab989e14634627c5@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090807204934.GB2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7c50d3570908071353s1ac166e6h8f50b03c3eed85f3@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090807211319.GD2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908071429l19a091f0p3687b38909adc9d1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 17:13, Lennart
Sorensen<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> In my case I used:
> CPU: Intel Core i7 920 D) @ 2.66GHz
> Motherboard: Asus P6T
> RAM: G.SKILL F3-10666CL9T-6GBNQ 6GB DDR3 3X2GB DDR3-1333 CL 9-9-9-24
> (because I actually want to be able to use all 6 slots with this kind of
> ram later. ?The 1600 ram can not be used with more than 3 sticks total).
> Vcard: EVGA GTX 275 OC (I don't put up with ATI drivers or customer
> support).
> HDD: 2 x WD5000AAKS (leftover from mythtv upgrade to WD1001 drives)
> DVD: I think I got some LG DVD writer too
> PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 610. ?(I like single rail designs and
> it is quiet)
> OS1: Debian Unstable
> OS2: Windows 7 RC
> Case: Silverstone TJ-04B
> Monitor: Dell 2408WFP
> Keyboard: Logitech Internet 350
> Mouse: Logitech Nano VX
> Mousepad: Ehm, something I had lying around
>
> Of course the purpose of this box isn't technicly gaming, but actually
> computer science work since that is what my wife is currently working
> on a PhD in and it is her machine now. ?You can do a lot of work on
> a GTX275. ?About 1Tflop if 32bit floats are precise enough for you.
> The 4 core (8 thread) 920 does nicely too.
>
> I was a bit surprised that my favoured case (the TJ04) actually had a
> problem in this case. ?The GTX 275 does not fit in the case. ?I had to
> use a dremel on one drive bay on one side of the HD cage to add an extra
> 2 cm of space for the video card. ?That was a first. ?Next time I will
> probably use the TJ09 instead.
>
> --
> Len Sorensen

The Rampage II Extreme can handle up to 24GB of DDR3-1600 in triple
channel using and even higher than 1600, usually with a BIOS update,
however for some reason the RIIE is using chipset software from before
the X58 came out, and I have no idea why there's been no updates to
the firmware there.  There was a hidden feature for my mobo, it
mentions it can do triple SLI, but then in the manual it mentions
under Vista that it can actually do triple CrossfireX as well, yet
it's never mentioned anywhere else.


-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:32:32 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:32:32 -0400
Subject: Free to a new home: Sparc processor systems
In-Reply-To: <011a01ca17a5$804f16f0$80ed44d0$@com>
References: <00f301ca17a3$2e652890$8b2f79b0$@com> <20090807211709.GE2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <011a01ca17a5$804f16f0$80ed44d0$@com>
Message-ID: <20090807213232.GG2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 05:24:50PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote:
> I am dropping one for Colin downtown tonight..
> 
> If you want I can throw the other two into the trunk, let me know.

So which one is Colin taking?

I am also not near downtown.

I would be interested in an ultrasparc system.

> I also have an ITX (running openbsd) with an external drive if you are
> interested.

No that one isn't interesting to me.

> The Alpha is the personal workstation 433. 

I have two of those already.  No need for more I think.  About the only
thing I could use was more ram for that model.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:34:48 2009
From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:34:48 -0400
Subject: Free to a new home: Sparc processor systems
In-Reply-To: <20090807213232.GG2989-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <00f301ca17a3$2e652890$8b2f79b0$@com> <20090807211709.GE2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <011a01ca17a5$804f16f0$80ed44d0$@com> <20090807213232.GG2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <012301ca17a6$e54dc690$afe953b0$@com>

So if you want it let me know, you can come over, strip them for what you
need (scsi disk + controllers, ram etc), and I will toss the rest out.

Colin's is not included in the list below...



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart
Sorensen
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:33 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Free to a new home: Sparc processor systems

On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 05:24:50PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote:
> I am dropping one for Colin downtown tonight..
> 
> If you want I can throw the other two into the trunk, let me know.

So which one is Colin taking?

I am also not near downtown.

I would be interested in an ultrasparc system.

> I also have an ITX (running openbsd) with an external drive if you are
> interested.

No that one isn't interesting to me.

> The Alpha is the personal workstation 433. 

I have two of those already.  No need for more I think.  About the only
thing I could use was more ram for that model.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:35:08 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:35:08 -0400
Subject: P1 128RAM
In-Reply-To: <8369b0fa0908071346s30e9ee61r138f116763ea1755-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <8369b0fa0907291549j15eefe6er592b1eef4c3ab52c@mail.gmail.com>	 <20090802054814.GA24726@waltdnes.org>	 <20090803062004.GA23701@precious>	 <20090807155815.GU2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <8369b0fa0908071346s30e9ee61r138f116763ea1755@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C9E0C.2000208@linuxcaffe.ca>

edward chin wrote:
> Thanks to all for your suggestions. Len, again, seems to have gotten
> it just right.
> So far, the only recent distro to work is Debian, but configuring and
> learning to navigate a new desktop is a chore. The best solution seems
> to be Knoppix 3.2,  3.4,  or 3.7  which I have. I would try mandriva
> 6.5 if I could find it.
no, no, not like that! modern knoppix will want more steam than that, 
and Mandriva will be about as big and NOT debian (rpm-based).
You just need the debian install CD, or the net.install CD.
the set up is text based, but not scary, and you can choose what basic 
options you want at install-time.
<plug>
Of course, if you don't want to download and burn the disk yourself, and 
you can't find another caffe that bakes muffins and burns distros, 
linuxcaffe will make you any free software CD for $6
</plug>
I might recommend openbox or fluxbox, as a desktop, and forget about 
openoffice, you'll want abiword and gnumeric. Firefox will run, but like 
molasses, and with 4 tabs open, and one bit of javascript over the line, 
it will lock-up.
That said, your ol' box can still be a good little workhorse, for the 
right tasks. good luck,
djp
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:42:01 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:42:01 -0400
Subject: GamerRe:CentOS Project Administrator Goes AWOL
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908071429l19a091f0p3687b38909adc9d1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090730141836.51034801.tleslie@tcn.net> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0907301444160.3868@redclaw.mimosa.com> <7c50d3570907301210v1b28f856xd21047aa9a9732d4@mail.gmail.com> <20090730160004.c35300f7.tleslie@tcn.net> <7c50d3570907301436w6c1fa505n73b724b483068c99@mail.gmail.com> <b8f780870908071329m7d7369aavab989e14634627c5@mail.gmail.com> <20090807204934.GB2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7c50d3570908071353s1ac166e6h8f50b03c3eed85f3@mail.gmail.com> <20090807211319.GD2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7c50d3570908071429l19a091f0p3687b38909adc9d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090807214201.GH2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 05:29:58PM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote:
> The Rampage II Extreme can handle up to 24GB of DDR3-1600 in triple
> channel using and even higher than 1600, usually with a BIOS update,
> however for some reason the RIIE is using chipset software from before
> the X58 came out, and I have no idea why there's been no updates to
> the firmware there.  There was a hidden feature for my mobo, it
> mentions it can do triple SLI, but then in the manual it mentions
> under Vista that it can actually do triple CrossfireX as well, yet
> it's never mentioned anywhere else.

Wow, they did a nice job on that.  The CPU isn't spec'd for it, and the
other X58 boards don't seem to support anything over 1333 with 6 DIMMs.
No wonder it is such an expensive board.

The QVL does list:
G.SKILL F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ 3 x 2GB as running with 6 x 2GB at
1600-9-9-9-24.  And that is at below the 1.65V limit too unlike a lot
of DDR3 ram.

I don't see the one you mentioned on the list.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 21:46:48 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:46:48 -0400
Subject: Free to a new home: Sparc processor systems
In-Reply-To: <012301ca17a6$e54dc690$afe953b0$@com>
References: <00f301ca17a3$2e652890$8b2f79b0$@com> <20090807211709.GE2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <011a01ca17a5$804f16f0$80ed44d0$@com> <20090807213232.GG2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <012301ca17a6$e54dc690$afe953b0$@com>
Message-ID: <20090807214648.GI2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 05:34:48PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote:
> So if you want it let me know, you can come over, strip them for what you
> need (scsi disk + controllers, ram etc), and I will toss the rest out.
> 
> Colin's is not included in the list below...

Sure I would like to.  Let me check when I have time.  I might be able
to this weekend sometime.  Or during the evening one of the days next
week.  I work in woodbridge, so I could zip over to brampton if necesary.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug  7 22:25:02 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:25:02 -0400
Subject: The Debian System book
Message-ID: <9c4794ce3d6e75dba00a89d6e7406adb@teksavvy.com>


-----Original message-----
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:09:18 -0400
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: The Debian System book

> On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 12:21:07PM -0400, meng wrote:
> > Has anyone read "The Debian System" by Martin F. Krafft, http://debiansystem.info/ ?
> > I'm wondering if it's worth getting, it's dated 2005 and covers "Sarge".
> > 
> > Or should I just stick with the Debian Reference manual, http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ ?
> > If it covers the same ground, I might as well refer to the online documentation.
> 
> I never buy computer books, because they are always obsolete by the time
> they are in print.  Online references are much easier to keep up to date.
> Certainly sarge is irrelevant now, given it has been replaced twice now
> (etch and lenny).  Major changes have happened.

Good points, you've convinced me :-)

Thanks, Len.

Meng

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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug  8 01:41:29 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:41:29 -0400
Subject: Next meeting
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908070935x780deec6kf394321b66a2c025-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908071213440.19396@castor.opentrend.net>
	 <f646b91f0908070932v759494eew378f121ea7ee6c55@mail.gmail.com>
	 <7c50d3570908070935x780deec6kf394321b66a2c025@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908071841y22a62fe6n902bb3d856e3784@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Michael Lauzon<mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I may or may not show up for the next meeting, because it falls on my
> 33rd birthday....
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael Lauzon
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

Happy 33rd Birthday Michael =) and many more, Best Wishes!!

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug  8 02:43:01 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:43:01 -0400
Subject: The Debian System book
In-Reply-To: <9c4794ce3d6e75dba00a89d6e7406adb-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <9c4794ce3d6e75dba00a89d6e7406adb@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <20090808024301.GJ2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 06:25:02PM -0400, meng wrote:
> 
> -----Original message-----
> From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:09:18 -0400
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: The Debian System book
> 
> > On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 12:21:07PM -0400, meng wrote:
> > > Has anyone read "The Debian System" by Martin F. Krafft, http://debiansystem.info/ ?
> > > I'm wondering if it's worth getting, it's dated 2005 and covers "Sarge".
> > > 
> > > Or should I just stick with the Debian Reference manual, http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ ?
> > > If it covers the same ground, I might as well refer to the online documentation.
> > 
> > I never buy computer books, because they are always obsolete by the time
> > they are in print.  Online references are much easier to keep up to date.
> > Certainly sarge is irrelevant now, given it has been replaced twice now
> > (etch and lenny).  Major changes have happened.
> 
> Good points, you've convinced me :-)

I do make an exception for good programming language reference books
for stable languages.  Those are nice to have.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug  8 03:29:22 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 23:29:22 -0400
Subject: The Debian System book
Message-ID: <f44374ebd2fb0d60de81cef639f1bd95@teksavvy.com>


-----Original message-----
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:43:01 -0400
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: The Debian System book

> On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 06:25:02PM -0400, meng wrote:
> > 
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
> > Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:09:18 -0400
> > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: The Debian System book
> > 
> > > On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 12:21:07PM -0400, meng wrote:
> > > > Has anyone read "The Debian System" by Martin F. Krafft, http://debiansystem.info/ ?
> > > > I'm wondering if it's worth getting, it's dated 2005 and covers "Sarge".
> > > > 
> > > > Or should I just stick with the Debian Reference manual, http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ ?
> > > > If it covers the same ground, I might as well refer to the online documentation.
> > > 
> > > I never buy computer books, because they are always obsolete by the time
> > > they are in print.  Online references are much easier to keep up to date.
> > > Certainly sarge is irrelevant now, given it has been replaced twice now
> > > (etch and lenny).  Major changes have happened.
> > 
> > Good points, you've convinced me :-)
> 
> I do make an exception for good programming language reference books
> for stable languages.  Those are nice to have.

lol, always exceptions :-)

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From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug  8 16:22:38 2009
From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:22:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues,  does this mean carbon composite has issues?
References: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com>    <4A758D2F.9070901@rogers.com> <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel@petelancashire.com> <4A771A0F.3050403@telly.org>
Message-ID: <loom.20090808T160734-816@post.gmane.org>

Evan Leibovitch <evan at ...> writes:
...
> It's also my belief that the underlying politics of the manufacture --
> that call for major component plants and jobs scattered all over the
> world -- has made the process of completing the final assembly to be

The ultimate "saying" on the subject likely belongs to a NASA astronaut or
engineer whom I remember to have been quoted to have said something along the
lines of "we are flying to the moon on a ship whose each and every part is
guaranteed to have the cheapest possible price, by virtue of the mandatory
subcontractor competition-bidding we have to use, to maximize the efficiency of
the use of taxpayer money". The quote is likely inexact in wording but conveys
the original meaning. 

I am not so happy with flying Airbus myself, after a few hard landings in which
I saw the cabin bend like a banana. Sitting in the back of the plane and seeing
the front galley dip out of sight while one's spine is painfully compressed on a
a hard touchdown is not something I would like to see again, and, not, is was
not my sinking in the chair, the reference point formed by the chair in front of
me and the LCD ceiling screen excluded that. Maybe they should fix that somehow.
Curtains to partition the cabin would be a great start imho. Boeing uses
curtains ... Curtains and psychology are important ...

Peter


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From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug  8 16:29:47 2009
From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:29:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Parallel programming
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <loom.20090808T162337-932@post.gmane.org>

Look for "PI calculus", "API calculus" and "deadlock-free algorythms" and
"non-blocking synchronization". These are more or less they keys to parallel
computing. Mosix is a well known implementation of distributed computing that
runs  on Linux (too) and it has a lot of documentation. The Ada and Java common
programming languages have native parallel processing support (of some sort).
Someone on this list ran a small cluster for graphics I think, I believe that he
gave it up (I believe it was William Park). The subject is huge and I am not an
expert :)

Peter

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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug  8 18:06:37 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:06:37 -0400
Subject: Permission issue assistance
Message-ID: <b8f780870908081106n5af7b992sdb1955d5bf7ac620@mail.gmail.com>

Hi pals,

I am trying to write a script that should delete a file as a verification
flag. I do not want to run the scrip as root and that is why I am getting in
trouble.


The file is created by the script and owned by the user bin. The group owner
is nobody. The file permission is rw rw rw for user group and others.

Now considering that everybody have write permission - do you need execute
permission to delete a file? -, why am I get permission error when deleting
this file? while running the script as user william?  What am I missing
here? Any assistance would be welcomed.

Regards,

William
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug  8 18:12:53 2009
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:12:53 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <loom.20090808T162337-932-eS7Uydv5nfjZ+VzJOa5vwg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca> <loom.20090808T162337-932@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20090808181253.GA30934@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sat, Aug 08, 2009 at 04:29:47PM +0000, Peter wrote:
> Look for "PI calculus", "API calculus" and "deadlock-free algorythms" and
> "non-blocking synchronization". These are more or less they keys to parallel
> computing. Mosix is a well known implementation of distributed computing that
> runs  on Linux (too) and it has a lot of documentation. The Ada and Java common
> programming languages have native parallel processing support (of some sort).
> Someone on this list ran a small cluster for graphics I think, I believe that he
> gave it up (I believe it was William Park). The subject is huge and I am not an
> expert :)

My advice is, "Give it up".  You can't make money doing "parallel
processing".  Those doing "parallel processing" are government funded
organizations (lab or school), and they've got infinite supply of cheap
labour.

Just as you think that you figured everything out, you get killed by
commodity PC.  Mine was 4 x dual-P3, and it become obsolete 4 months
after I built it.  I could've bought a new car, instead.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug  8 18:51:47 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:51:47 -0400
Subject: OT: Malaysian Government Wants Internet Filtering
Message-ID: <14cb2e21aaca530e280a746818273463@teksavvy.com>

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/08/08/0243231/Malaysian-Government-Wants-Internet-Filtering

According to a Reuters report, "A vibrant Internet culture has contributed to political challenges facing the government, which tightly controls mainstream media and has used sedition laws and imprisonment without trial to prosecute a blogger."


http://www.forbes.com/feeds/reuters/2009/08/07/2009-08-07T071038Z_01_KLR434414_RTRIDST_0_MALAYSIA-INTERNET-Q-A.html

Q+A-Malaysia's proposed Internet filter prompts criticism
Excepts:

Prime Minister Najib Razak is often a target of attacks on the Internet. He is still linked by opposition websites to the murder of a Mongolian model, although he denies the allegation, which has not been proven.

Tender documents specify a filter at the Internet gateway level, meaning service providers such as Telekom Malaysia, Redtone, Green Packet and Axiata will have to impose the blocks.
That will be more effective than "Green Dam", which aimed to force manufacturers to bundle Internet filtering software with sales of new personal computers.

The opposition may use the issue to show a crackdown is in the works. That could add numbers to any protests around the ongoing trial for sodomy of opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim.
The government's reputation has also been stained by the recent death of an aide to an opposition lawmaker after being questioned by a state body.
Analysts say filtering websites shows Najib's government is fearful of the Internet culture that emerged in 1998 after Anwar, a deputy prime minister then, was sacked and charged with corruption and sodomy and then jailed.
The opposition, which had no access to mainstream media, harnessed the Internet during the 2008 elections, making frequent and effective use of blogs, websites and services like Twitter.

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug  8 19:19:54 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 15:19:54 -0400
Subject: Permission issue assistance
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908081106n5af7b992sdb1955d5bf7ac620-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908081106n5af7b992sdb1955d5bf7ac620@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090808191954.GK2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, Aug 08, 2009 at 02:06:37PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote:
> I am trying to write a script that should delete a file as a verification
> flag. I do not want to run the scrip as root and that is why I am getting in
> trouble.
> 
> 
> The file is created by the script and owned by the user bin. The group owner
> is nobody. The file permission is rw rw rw for user group and others.
> 
> Now considering that everybody have write permission - do you need execute
> permission to delete a file? -, why am I get permission error when deleting
> this file? while running the script as user william?  What am I missing
> here? Any assistance would be welcomed.

You probably just need write permission to the directory to delete
a file.  Write permission to a file simply permits changing the contents
of the file.

What error do you get?  What permissions does the directory with the
file have?

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
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From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug  8 23:45:27 2009
From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:45:27 -0400
Subject: Parallel programming
In-Reply-To: <loom.20090808T162337-932-eS7Uydv5nfjZ+VzJOa5vwg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090804194555.GA20889@yam.witteman.ca> <loom.20090808T162337-932@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4A7E0E17.4020203@gmail.com>

Peter wrote:
> Look for "PI calculus", "API calculus" and "deadlock-free algorythms" and
> "non-blocking synchronization". These are more or less they keys to parallel
> computing. Mosix is a well known implementation of distributed computing that
> runs  on Linux (too) and it has a lot of documentation. The Ada and Java common
> programming languages have native parallel processing support (of some sort).
> Someone on this list ran a small cluster for graphics I think, I believe that he
> gave it up (I believe it was William Park). The subject is huge and I am not an
> expert :)
>
>   
Mosix is an older design and basically allows individual threads to be 
moved to or started on free nodes. It doesn't use message passing. 
Basically it's good if you have a lot of serial processes to run. I was 
going to say it doesn't support newer hardware but it looks like it's 
caught up now and runs on modern 2.6 Kernels. I don't know how well it 
will work with large datasets but you may be able to combine it with GFS 
to improve performance there.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug  9 00:25:48 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:25:48 -0400
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues,  does this mean carbon composite
 has issues?
In-Reply-To: <loom.20090808T160734-816-eS7Uydv5nfjZ+VzJOa5vwg@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com>    <4A758D2F.9070901@rogers.com> <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel@petelancashire.com> <4A771A0F.3050403@telly.org> <loom.20090808T160734-816@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4A7E178C.6040305@rogers.com>

Peter wrote:
> I am not so happy with flying Airbus myself, after a few hard landings in which
> I saw the cabin bend like a banana.
Large structures, such as bridges, tall buildings and even aircraft are
designed to bend under load.  As long as it's within specs, it's fine. 
BTW, take a look at how much the wings flex on large aircraft.  Some
military planes (B-52 & U2 come to mind) require outriggers, to keep the
wing tips off the ground, when full of fuel.  A rigid airframe would be
prohibitively heavy and perhaps not as able to withstand loads.


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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug  9 02:45:37 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 22:45:37 -0400
Subject: Permission issue assistance
In-Reply-To: <20090808191954.GK2989-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908081106n5af7b992sdb1955d5bf7ac620@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090808191954.GK2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908081945t6d718a86o9030a4c9ffe0e3b@mail.gmail.com>

Len,

Sorry, I stepped out of the house before you responded.

>
> You probably just need write permission to the directory to delete
> a file.  Write permission to a file simply permits changing the contents
> of the file.
>

My directory permission are as follow:

drwxrwxrwt   67 root nagios 40960 Aug  8 22:41 tmp

The directory is owned by root and group nagios

The file has the following properties.

-rw-rw-rw-  1 nobody 4294967295 1 Aug  7 16:20 /tmp/.run_challenge_update

However, I run the script from an account called william

>
> What error do you get?  What permissions does the directory with the
> file have?

rm: cannot remove `/tmp/.run_challenge_update': Operation not permitted


Thank you for you assistance. I really appreciate.

William

>
>
> --
> Len Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug  9 03:03:51 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:03:51 -0400
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues, does this mean carbon 
	composite has issues?
In-Reply-To: <4A7E178C.6040305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A758D2F.9070901@rogers.com>
	 <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel@petelancashire.com>
	 <4A771A0F.3050403@telly.org> <loom.20090808T160734-816@post.gmane.org>
	 <4A7E178C.6040305@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908082003i4ea679dfw9f385a7a787497d2@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/8 James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>

> Peter wrote:
> > I am not so happy with flying Airbus myself, after a few hard landings in
> which
> > I saw the cabin bend like a banana.
> Large structures, such as bridges, tall buildings and even aircraft are
> designed to bend under load.  As long as it's within specs, it's fine.
> BTW, take a look at how much the wings flex on large aircraft.  Some
> military planes (B-52 & U2 come to mind) require outriggers, to keep the
> wing tips off the ground, when full of fuel.  A rigid airframe would be
> prohibitively heavy and perhaps not as able to withstand loads.
>

Right on the head. If the bend was accommodated in the design, then its
alright.  You can make it as stiff as esthetically possible, but that would
be adding weight,  which mean more fuel burnt and a more expensive ticket.
In fact, it can be argued that a stiff frame is more risky as that imply
brittleness. Physics sometime contradict most of the day to day assumptions.

Regards,

William

>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug  9 03:05:21 2009
From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:05:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Permission issue assistance
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908081945t6d718a86o9030a4c9ffe0e3b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908081106n5af7b992sdb1955d5bf7ac620@mail.gmail.com>  <20090808191954.GK2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <b8f780870908081945t6d718a86o9030a4c9ffe0e3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908082304210.5132@doublethink>

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009, William Muriithi wrote:

> Len,
> 
> Sorry, I stepped out of the house before you responded.
> 
> >
> > You probably just need write permission to the directory to delete
> > a file.  Write permission to a file simply permits changing the contents
> > of the file.
> >
> 
> My directory permission are as follow:
> 
> drwxrwxrwt   67 root nagios 40960 Aug  8 22:41 tmp
> 
> The directory is owned by root and group nagios

STICKY DIRECTORIES
       When the sticky bit is set on a directory, files in that
       directory may be unlinked or renamed only by root or their
       owner. Without the sticky bit, anyone able to write to the
       directory can delete or rename files. The sticky bit is
       commonly found on directories, such as /tmp, that are
       world-writable.

 
> The file has the following properties.
> 
> -rw-rw-rw-  1 nobody 4294967295 1 Aug  7 16:20 /tmp/.run_challenge_update
> 
> However, I run the script from an account called william
> 
> >
> > What error do you get?  What permissions does the directory with the
> > file have?
> 
> rm: cannot remove `/tmp/.run_challenge_update': Operation not permitted
> 
> 
> Thank you for you assistance. I really appreciate.
> 
> William
> 
> >
> >
> > --
> > Len Sorensen
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> >
> 

-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
   ===================================================================
   Author:
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug  9 03:24:43 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:24:43 -0400
Subject: Permission issue assistance
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908082304210.5132@doublethink>
References: <b8f780870908081106n5af7b992sdb1955d5bf7ac620@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090808191954.GK2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	 <b8f780870908081945t6d718a86o9030a4c9ffe0e3b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908082304210.5132@doublethink>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908082024s472cbf38w94b55770f217aac7@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/8 Chris F.A. Johnson <cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org>

> STICKY DIRECTORIES
>       When the sticky bit is set on a directory, files in that
>       directory may be unlinked or renamed only by root or their
>       owner. Without the sticky bit, anyone able to write to the
>       directory can delete or rename files. The sticky bit is
>       commonly found on directories, such as /tmp, that are
>       world-writable.
>
> Ah thanks Chris. That is a very excellent catch. I did not realized the tmp
directory has a sticky bit. Now, after looking at it again, I notice there
is the "t" sign.

Regards,

William


>
> > The file has the following properties.
> >
> > -rw-rw-rw-  1 nobody 4294967295 1 Aug  7 16:20 /tmp/.run_challenge_update
> >
> > However, I run the script from an account called william
> >
> > >
> > > What error do you get?  What permissions does the directory with the
> > > file have?
> >
> > rm: cannot remove `/tmp/.run_challenge_update': Operation not permitted
> >
> >
> > Thank you for you assistance. I really appreciate.
> >
> > William
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Len Sorensen
> > > --
> > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> > >
> >
>
> --
>   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
>   ===================================================================
>   Author:
>   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug  9 12:27:02 2009
From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 08:27:02 -0400
Subject: Free to a new home: Sparc processor systems
In-Reply-To: <011a01ca17a5$804f16f0$80ed44d0$@com>
References: <00f301ca17a3$2e652890$8b2f79b0$@com>
	 <20090807211709.GE2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	 <011a01ca17a5$804f16f0$80ed44d0$@com>
Message-ID: <f646b91f0908090527j1506e9d0r1db28017cc18e5a5@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/7/09, Ansar Mohammed <ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I am dropping one for Colin downtown tonight..
>
> If you want I can throw the other two into the trunk, let me know.
>
> I also have an ITX (running openbsd) with an external drive if you are
> interested.
>
> The Alpha is the personal workstation 433.

Well, just to note that I did get the above machine (thanks), and for
the other folks that get one of these machines, here are a few things
I've learned:

- These Blade100 machines are happy enough with standard USB keyboards
/ mice. In my case the only spare USB keyboard / mouse I had were from
Microsoft, and they work just fine (anything Microsoft working with
Sun seems slightly ... odd :-) ). The only semi-catch with a non-Sun
keyboards is they don't have a "STOP" button (used to drop out of the
OS, something you want when doing an OS re-install). You can simulate
the STOP button by double clicking the power button.

- There are some monitors that will not get along with the Sun video.
First LCD I tried complained about the output, second LCD was
perfectly happy.

- A while back Sun was giving away copies of Solaris 10 on DVD, and I
got one of those copies. It has now been put to use :-) .

- The machines have a smart card reader, in my case Sun part number
370-3933-05. What I don't know yet is which type(s) of smart cards
this machine can read.

Colin.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug  9 14:51:04 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:51:04 -0400
Subject: Permission issue assistance
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908081945t6d718a86o9030a4c9ffe0e3b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908081106n5af7b992sdb1955d5bf7ac620@mail.gmail.com> <20090808191954.GK2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <b8f780870908081945t6d718a86o9030a4c9ffe0e3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090809145103.GL2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, Aug 08, 2009 at 10:45:37PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote:
> My directory permission are as follow:
> 
> drwxrwxrwt   67 root nagios 40960 Aug  8 22:41 tmp
> 
> The directory is owned by root and group nagios
> 
> The file has the following properties.
> 
> -rw-rw-rw-  1 nobody 4294967295 1 Aug  7 16:20 /tmp/.run_challenge_update
> 
> However, I run the script from an account called william

The t flag on /tmp means only the owner of a file can delete it.  So in this case only nobody and root can delete it.

> rm: cannot remove `/tmp/.run_challenge_update': Operation not permitted

That would be the correct behaviour in /tmp.  Only nobody should be able to delete it.  You would have to make both users part of a group and make the file have that group as owner to make it possible, or you would have to have a directory writeable by all (which is considered a very bad idea).

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 10 14:00:10 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:00:10 -0400
Subject: How do you expand a RAID5 Array?
Message-ID: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca>

I have a server with three drives in a RAID5 configuration.  I have
three more drives which I would like to add.  Do I just plug them in, or
do I need to plug them in a reboot, or will it require a reinstall of
the OS?
-- 

yours,

William

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From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 10 14:02:29 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:02:29 -0400
Subject: Looking for Samba help - connecting to AD
Message-ID: <4A802875.2090400@telly.org>

Hi folks,

I'm running into a roadblock in making a samba server part of an
existing active directory network. The intention is to authenticate
against an existing AD server.

I appear to have Kerberos set up OK; `kinit Administrator-M7a7s9M81/P1mVrvS+03Ww at public.gmane.org`
works fine, accepts the admin password of the server and rejects bad
password attempts.

But when I try `net ads join -U Administrator`I get
Failed to join Domain: filed to find DC for domain MYREALM.LOCAL

Any pointers are appreciated.

Thanks!

- Evan

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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 10 15:46:50 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:46:50 -0400
Subject: Looking for Samba help - connecting to AD
In-Reply-To: <4A802875.2090400-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A802875.2090400@telly.org>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908100846u12cfb8bcie6e1bcb8f8b5bf54@mail.gmail.com>

Evans,

> But when I try `net ads join -U Administrator`I get
> Failed to join Domain: filed to find DC for domain MYREALM.LOCAL
>
Check your dns records again. You can query  for all the data in that
zone and see if there is a srv record relating to where your domain
can be found.
> Any pointers are appreciated.
>

William
> Thanks!
>
> - Evan
>
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 10 15:54:02 2009
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:54:02 -0400
Subject: How do you expand a RAID5 Array?
In-Reply-To: <20090810140010.GA6916-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0908100854j624a324dxb261d6dbe6440f80@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:00 AM, William O'Higgins
Witteman<william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I have a server with three drives in a RAID5 configuration. ?I have
> three more drives which I would like to add. ?Do I just plug them in, or
> do I need to plug them in a reboot, or will it require a reinstall of
> the OS?

That seems *really* likely to depend heavily on your hardware choices.

Notably, if the RAID array is managed by the disk controller, as is
the case with the fancier sort of SATA controller, then this depends
*entirely* on how the controller works, and usually the answer will be
pretty negative (e.g. - "you'll need to redo the filesystem").

If you're using software RAID, then you should see:
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Software-RAID-HOWTO-5.html#ss5.8

Some changes may be made, but you shouldn't pretend RAID is an
alternative to doing backups :-)
-- 
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
Samuel Goldwyn  - "I'm willing to admit that I may not always be
right, but I am never wrong." -
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/samuel_goldwyn.html
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 10 16:18:50 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:18:50 -0400
Subject: How do you expand a RAID5 Array?
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f0908100854j624a324dxb261d6dbe6440f80-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca>
 <d6d6637f0908100854j624a324dxb261d6dbe6440f80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090810161850.GA13254@yam.witteman.ca>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:54:02AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote:
>On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:00 AM, William O'Higgins
>Witteman<william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> I have a server with three drives in a RAID5 configuration. ?I have
>> three more drives which I would like to add. ?Do I just plug them in, or
>> do I need to plug them in a reboot, or will it require a reinstall of
>> the OS?
>
>That seems *really* likely to depend heavily on your hardware choices.

I'm beginning to see that.  This is inherited hardware, and I am stuck
with RAID5 and no resizing.

>Some changes may be made, but you shouldn't pretend RAID is an
>alternative to doing backups :-)

Heavens no!  RAID is an alternative to single-point-of-failure HDs, not
backups.  Now the single-point-of-failure is the RAID controller :-)
Hopefully the RAID controller is solid state, and that is its saving
grace, but that doesn't prevent it from going pear-shaped and taking all
your disks with it.

The only replacement for backups is not caring about your data.
-- 

yours,

William

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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 10 16:35:33 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:35:33 -0400
Subject: Permission issue assistance
In-Reply-To: <20090809145103.GL2989-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908081106n5af7b992sdb1955d5bf7ac620@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090808191954.GK2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	 <b8f780870908081945t6d718a86o9030a4c9ffe0e3b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090809145103.GL2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908100935r25e45023ia7a58ad549ff6230@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks all.

That was very helpful

William

2009/8/9 Lennart Sorensen <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>:
> On Sat, Aug 08, 2009 at 10:45:37PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote:
>> My directory permission are as follow:
>>
>> drwxrwxrwt ? 67 root nagios 40960 Aug ?8 22:41 tmp
>>
>> The directory is owned by root and group nagios
>>
>> The file has the following properties.
>>
>> -rw-rw-rw- ?1 nobody 4294967295 1 Aug ?7 16:20 /tmp/.run_challenge_update
>>
>> However, I run the script from an account called william
>
> The t flag on /tmp means only the owner of a file can delete it. ?So in this case only nobody and root can delete it.
>
>> rm: cannot remove `/tmp/.run_challenge_update': Operation not permitted
>
> That would be the correct behaviour in /tmp. ?Only nobody should be able to delete it. ?You would have to make both users part of a group and make the file have that group as owner to make it possible, or you would have to have a directory writeable by all (which is considered a very bad idea).
>
> --
> Len Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 10 16:45:04 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:45:04 -0400
Subject: How do you expand a RAID5 Array?
In-Reply-To: <20090810161850.GA13254-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca> <d6d6637f0908100854j624a324dxb261d6dbe6440f80@mail.gmail.com> <20090810161850.GA13254@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <4A804E90.4070307@alteeve.com>

William O'Higgins Witteman wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 11:54:02AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:00 AM, William O'Higgins
>> Witteman<william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>> I have a server with three drives in a RAID5 configuration.  I have
>>> three more drives which I would like to add.  Do I just plug them in, or
>>> do I need to plug them in a reboot, or will it require a reinstall of
>>> the OS?
>> That seems *really* likely to depend heavily on your hardware choices.
> 
> I'm beginning to see that.  This is inherited hardware, and I am stuck
> with RAID5 and no resizing.
> 
>> Some changes may be made, but you shouldn't pretend RAID is an
>> alternative to doing backups :-)
> 
> Heavens no!  RAID is an alternative to single-point-of-failure HDs, not
> backups.  Now the single-point-of-failure is the RAID controller :-)
> Hopefully the RAID controller is solid state, and that is its saving
> grace, but that doesn't prevent it from going pear-shaped and taking all
> your disks with it.
> 
> The only replacement for backups is not caring about your data.

As a cheap work around, can you create another RAID5 beside the existing 
one and move a couple of your directories onto it? I know it's not the 
same as growing it, but it might solve your space problems for now.

Madi
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 10 17:04:38 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:04:38 -0400
Subject: How do you expand a RAID5 Array?
In-Reply-To: <20090810161850.GA13254-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca>
	 <d6d6637f0908100854j624a324dxb261d6dbe6440f80@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090810161850.GA13254@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908101004h58f77adcgfe58d4e824e0f3da@mail.gmail.com>

>>
>>That seems *really* likely to depend heavily on your hardware choices.
>
> I'm beginning to see that. ?This is inherited hardware, and I am stuck
> with RAID5 and no resizing.
>
Hmm, do you have lvm running on that box? RAID will not help with resizing.

Just saw Madi response and it got  me thinking, can one mix hardware
RAID and software RAID. If that is possible, you can setup it up as
Madi advised and LVM should allow you to make the whole thing a single
file space


William
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 10 17:16:03 2009
From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:16:03 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
Message-ID: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

I am wanting to use a UPS for 2 servers at work. One is linux one is
ESX3.5i. I am hoping to have it stablize the current (we have problems
with power surges) as well as tell the machines to turn off if there
is no power.

I am looking for compatibility with Linux (so the Linux server
understands the call from the UPS to shut it down as well as ESX).

Any suggestions?
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 10 17:20:12 2009
From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:20:12 -0400
Subject: How do you expand a RAID5 Array?
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908101004h58f77adcgfe58d4e824e0f3da-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca>	 <d6d6637f0908100854j624a324dxb261d6dbe6440f80@mail.gmail.com>	 <20090810161850.GA13254@yam.witteman.ca> <b8f780870908101004h58f77adcgfe58d4e824e0f3da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8056CC.8020006@tmis.ca>

http://joshuahayes.blogspot.com/2006/11/expand-existing-raid-5-array.html
http://allintech.info/?p=11


William Muriithi wrote:
>>> That seems *really* likely to depend heavily on your hardware choices.
>> I'm beginning to see that.  This is inherited hardware, and I am stuck
>> with RAID5 and no resizing.
>>
> Hmm, do you have lvm running on that box? RAID will not help with resizing.
> 
> Just saw Madi response and it got  me thinking, can one mix hardware
> RAID and software RAID. If that is possible, you can setup it up as
> Madi advised and LVM should allow you to make the whole thing a single
> file space
> 
> 
> William
> --
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 10 17:57:23 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:57:23 -0400
Subject: How do you expand a RAID5 Array?
In-Reply-To: <4A8056CC.8020006-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca>
 <d6d6637f0908100854j624a324dxb261d6dbe6440f80@mail.gmail.com>
 <20090810161850.GA13254@yam.witteman.ca>
 <b8f780870908101004h58f77adcgfe58d4e824e0f3da@mail.gmail.com>
 <4A8056CC.8020006@tmis.ca>
Message-ID: <20090810175723.GA17782@yam.witteman.ca>

Thanks to all for your responses.  It looks like I'll fail over to my
backup server, wipe the existing data as I extend the RAID and reinstall
fresh.  This time, LVM is definitely on the agenda :-)
-- 

yours,

William

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 10 18:29:51 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:29:51 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A80671F.1040304@rogers.com>

Dave Germiquet wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I am wanting to use a UPS for 2 servers at work. One is linux one is
> ESX3.5i. I am hoping to have it stablize the current (we have problems
> with power surges) as well as tell the machines to turn off if there
> is no power.
>
> I am looking for compatibility with Linux (so the Linux server
> understands the call from the UPS to shut it down as well as ESX).
>
>   

I use APC.  Linux support for it is available and included in OpenSUSE.

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From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 10 21:57:13 2009
From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:57:13 -0400
Subject: TPL Sypder and OpenVPN bridged
Message-ID: <4A8097B9.8040806@tmis.ca>


Installed OpenVPN on AspireOne
(decent little pc,even if they keyboard is a tad small)

As soon as I logged into the TPL Spyders web proxy,
the OpenVPN bridge interface connects to my OpenVPN bridged server.

Obviously I do not have router access at TPL.
No idea how 11994/udp packets are routing and working but I am on
my local LAN at TPL :)


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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 01:21:18 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:21:18 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
Message-ID: <97b2e1209202520deca3255a82bc434f@teksavvy.com>

Any plans to hold the above event?

Cheers

Meng

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From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 10:25:52 2009
From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 06:25:52 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>; from davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 13:16:03 -0400
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090811102552.GA1907@localhost>

On Mon Aug 10,2009 01:16:03 PM Dave Germiquet wrote:
> I am looking for compatibility with Linux (so the Linux server
> understands the call from the UPS to shut it down as well as ESX).

<http://www.networkupstools.org/>

Check their documentation for compatibility with various 
manufacturers.

-- 
** Scott Allen   scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org **
**     Toronto, Ontario, Canada     **
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 12:32:20 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:32:20 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <97b2e1209202520deca3255a82bc434f-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <97b2e1209202520deca3255a82bc434f@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <4A8164D4.8000408@linuxcaffe.ca>

meng wrote:
> Any plans to hold the above event?
This year, as in past years, linux-in-the-park is scheduled to happen on 
the Sunday after the second-to-last Saturday in August (this formula 
derived in order to piggy-back on the annual Jersey Street Party)

who want to play ?

djp
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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 12:54:37 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:54:37 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
Message-ID: <66abe7701a39ba8ece2b20c3f02d3aec@teksavvy.com>


-----Original message-----
From: David J Patrick djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:32:20 -0400
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux in the park 2009

> meng wrote:
> > Any plans to hold the above event?
> This year, as in past years, linux-in-the-park is scheduled to happen on 
> the Sunday after the second-to-last Saturday in August (this formula 
> derived in order to piggy-back on the annual Jersey Street Party)
> 


Aug 29? Great.

Thanks, David :-)


> who want to play ?
> 
> djp
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 12:55:38 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:55:38 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <66abe7701a39ba8ece2b20c3f02d3aec-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <66abe7701a39ba8ece2b20c3f02d3aec@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <4A816A4A.2090000@linuxcaffe.ca>

meng wrote:
> -----Original message-----
> From: David J Patrick djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org
> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:32:20 -0400
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux in the park 2009
> 
>> meng wrote:
>>> Any plans to hold the above event?
>> This year, as in past years, linux-in-the-park is scheduled to happen on 
>> the Sunday after the second-to-last Saturday in August (this formula 
>> derived in order to piggy-back on the annual Jersey Street Party)
>>
> 
> 
> Aug 29? Great.

nooooo

Aug 23 !!!
djp
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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 13:17:53 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:17:53 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
Message-ID: <b38a17f9c5f4fc4d02563d5ce6c499a8@teksavvy.com>


-----Original message-----
From: David J Patrick djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:55:38 -0400
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux in the park 2009

> meng wrote:
> > -----Original message-----
> > From: David J Patrick djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org
> > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:32:20 -0400
> > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux in the park 2009
> > 
> >> meng wrote:
> >>> Any plans to hold the above event?
> >> This year, as in past years, linux-in-the-park is scheduled to happen on 
> >> the Sunday after the second-to-last Saturday in August (this formula 
> >> derived in order to piggy-back on the annual Jersey Street Party)
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > Aug 29? Great.
> 
> nooooo
> 
> Aug 23 !!!

Man, I need my coffee fix :-)
Thanks.

> djp
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 14:04:45 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:04:45 -0400
Subject: How do you expand a RAID5 Array?
In-Reply-To: <20090810140010.GA6916-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090810140010.GA6916@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <20090811140445.GA3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:00:10AM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote:
> I have a server with three drives in a RAID5 configuration.  I have
> three more drives which I would like to add.  Do I just plug them in, or
> do I need to plug them in a reboot, or will it require a reinstall of
> the OS?

Depends on the controller.

AHCI controllers should support hot plug, although I have seen one case
where a hotplug caused another drive on the controller to momentarily
disappear, which didn't please the raid at all.  I suppose having hot
swap cages makes it more reliable.

Other than that, you partition the drives, then mdadm can be used to add
drives to expand an existing raid (at least with recent kernel versions
and mdadm versions).

With hardware raid, it depends what the raid controller and its control
software is capable of.  Some can do raid resizes.  Some can't.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 14:13:24 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:13:24 -0400
Subject: Looking for Samba help - connecting to AD
In-Reply-To: <4A802875.2090400-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A802875.2090400@telly.org>
Message-ID: <20090811141324.GB3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:02:29AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
> I'm running into a roadblock in making a samba server part of an
> existing active directory network. The intention is to authenticate
> against an existing AD server.
> 
> I appear to have Kerberos set up OK; `kinit Administrator-M7a7s9M81/P1mVrvS+03Ww at public.gmane.org`
> works fine, accepts the admin password of the server and rejects bad
> password attempts.

I do it without the hell that is berberos.

> But when I try `net ads join -U Administrator`I get
> Failed to join Domain: filed to find DC for domain MYREALM.LOCAL
> 
> Any pointers are appreciated.

I just configured sambe with security=domain and the password server IP.
Then I added the samba macine to the domain using:
net rpc join member -U administrator

It should prompt for the domain controller admin's password.

Assuming you set the domain/workgroup name correctly in the samba config,
it should join the domain.  After this, you can authenticate.

So pretty simple, and no need for kerberos to get involved.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 14:16:09 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:16:09 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090811141609.GC3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 01:16:03PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote:
> I am wanting to use a UPS for 2 servers at work. One is linux one is
> ESX3.5i. I am hoping to have it stablize the current (we have problems
> with power surges) as well as tell the machines to turn off if there
> is no power.
> 
> I am looking for compatibility with Linux (so the Linux server
> understands the call from the UPS to shut it down as well as ESX).

I have always been happy with APC.  The APC Smartups 1500 being my
prefered UPS (at least whenever Dell puts it on sale for $200).  I tried
a PC Power & Cooling Pro-Source 1500 a few days ago, and managed to get
it working with 'nut' on linux.  Seems OK, although apcupsd is nicer to
work with so far.  The prosource is about $300, which makes it about
half the normal cost of the APC.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 14:22:14 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:22:14 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <20090811102552.GA1907@localhost>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com> <20090811102552.GA1907@localhost>
Message-ID: <20090811142214.GD3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 06:25:52AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote:
> On Mon Aug 10,2009 01:16:03 PM Dave Germiquet wrote:
>> I am looking for compatibility with Linux (so the Linux server
>> understands the call from the UPS to shut it down as well as ESX).
>
> <http://www.networkupstools.org/>
>
> Check their documentation for compatibility with various manufacturers.

nut seems to work with a lot of UPSs they don't list.  OCZ and PC Power &
Cooling UPSs use megatec_usb and seem to work fine with it, but neither
is listed.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 14:56:51 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:56:51 -0400
Subject: Looking for Samba help - connecting to AD
In-Reply-To: <20090811141324.GB3444-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A802875.2090400@telly.org> <20090811141324.GB3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4A8186B3.6080809@telly.org>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> [...]
> So pretty simple, and no need for kerberos to get involved.
>   


Thanks!


- Evan

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From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 15:06:23 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:06:23 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>

Well, today -- 11/08/09 -- is my 33rdf birthday, I am getting old.  I
haven't had a birthday party or a birthday present in almost 20 years,
sucks to be me.  Anyeverhow, I am now 33 and into my 34th year of
life.

-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
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From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 15:08:45 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:08:45 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A8164D4.8000408-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <97b2e1209202520deca3255a82bc434f@teksavvy.com> 
	<4A8164D4.8000408@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908110808q14087d21t6e2588aee2cb6757@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 08:32, David J Patrick<djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> This year, as in past years, linux-in-the-park is scheduled to happen on the
> Sunday after the second-to-last Saturday in August (this formula derived in
> order to piggy-back on the annual Jersey Street Party)
>
> who want to play ?
>
> djp

Jersey Street Party?


-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 15:10:25 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:10:25 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8189E1.1050000@rogers.com>

Michael Lauzon wrote:
> Well, today -- 11/08/09 -- is my 33rdf birthday, I am getting old.  I
> haven't had a birthday party or a birthday present in almost 20 years,
> sucks to be me.  Anyeverhow, I am now 33 and into my 34th year of
> life.
>
>   
Maybe someone will give you a walker for your birthday.  ;-)

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 15:17:43 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:17:43 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <4A8189E1.1050000-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com> <4A8189E1.1050000@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4A818B97.1000808@alteeve.com>

James Knott wrote:
> Michael Lauzon wrote:
>> Well, today -- 11/08/09 -- is my 33rdf birthday, I am getting old.  I
>> haven't had a birthday party or a birthday present in almost 20 years,
>> sucks to be me.  Anyeverhow, I am now 33 and into my 34th year of
>> life.
>>
>>   
> Maybe someone will give you a walker for your birthday.  ;-)
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> 

Oh ZING!
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From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 15:23:30 2009
From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:23:30 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Michael Lauzon<mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Well, today -- 11/08/09 -- is my 33rdf birthday, I am getting old. ?I
> haven't had a birthday party or a birthday present in almost 20 years,
> sucks to be me. ?Anyeverhow, I am now 33 and into my 34th year of
> life.

33!? Please, I would be glad to be 33 again. Enjoy it while you can :-)
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From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 15:32:34 2009
From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:32:34 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com> <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A818F12.9090709@moores.ca>

Haa suckers, I'm still in my 20's. I've have 5 more years till I even
turn 30.

'course I started counting my birthdays in hex way back when I turned
1E. :-(


Thomas Milne wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Michael Lauzon<mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> Well, today -- 11/08/09 -- is my 33rdf birthday, I am getting old.  I
>> haven't had a birthday party or a birthday present in almost 20 years,
>> sucks to be me.  Anyeverhow, I am now 33 and into my 34th year of
>> life.
> 
> 33!? Please, I would be glad to be 33 again. Enjoy it while you can :-)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 15:41:14 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:41:14 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908110808q14087d21t6e2588aee2cb6757-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <97b2e1209202520deca3255a82bc434f@teksavvy.com> 	<4A8164D4.8000408@linuxcaffe.ca> <7c50d3570908110808q14087d21t6e2588aee2cb6757@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A81911A.9020007@linuxcaffe.ca>

Michael Lauzon wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 08:32, David J Patrick<djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> This year, as in past years, linux-in-the-park is scheduled to happen on the
>> Sunday after the second-to-last Saturday in August (this formula derived in
>> order to piggy-back on the annual Jersey Street Party)
>>
>> who want to play ?
>>
>> djp
> 
> Jersey Street Party?

yes
Saturday, Aug 22nd
JSP09, the third annual, it will be fantastic (again) and then on Sunday 
we can (for the third year in a row) enjoy some outdoor geekiness and 
the spoils of the previous day's party.

that doesn't mean nobody has to bring nothing,
some input from youse guys would be dandy,
but I can supply a park, a BBQ and some grub.
djp
> 
> 

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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 15:42:57 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:42:57 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A81911A.9020007-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <97b2e1209202520deca3255a82bc434f@teksavvy.com> 	<4A8164D4.8000408@linuxcaffe.ca> <7c50d3570908110808q14087d21t6e2588aee2cb6757@mail.gmail.com> <4A81911A.9020007@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <4A819181.2010806@linuxcaffe.ca>

David J Patrick wrote:

> that doesn't mean nobody has to bring nothing,
> some input from youse guys would be dandy,
> but I can supply a park, a BBQ and some grub.

oh yeah, this year we will also be celebrating (a bit late)
Michael Lauson's 33rd birthday
(somebody bring a cake, somebody else bring a present)
djp
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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 15:45:04 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:45:04 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A8164D4.8000408-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <97b2e1209202520deca3255a82bc434f@teksavvy.com>
	 <4A8164D4.8000408@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908110845y1327bbd2gbf9181dd11e9048e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:32 AM, David J Patrick<djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> meng wrote:
>>
>> Any plans to hold the above event?
>
> This year, as in past years, linux-in-the-park is scheduled to happen on the
> Sunday after the second-to-last Saturday in August (this formula derived in
> order to piggy-back on the annual Jersey Street Party)
>
> who want to play ?
>
>
> djp
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

I would love to come with my partner, not sure what a
linux-in-the-park event is suppose to be like.

I was thinking maybe we can make it for the guys and friends into a
BBQ party? If everyone brings a little something, what do you guys
think?

Who would be planning this?

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
--
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 15:55:29 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:55:29 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908110845y1327bbd2gbf9181dd11e9048e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <97b2e1209202520deca3255a82bc434f@teksavvy.com>	 <4A8164D4.8000408@linuxcaffe.ca> <a05162a70908110845y1327bbd2gbf9181dd11e9048e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A819471.2030609@linuxcaffe.ca>

Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> I would love to come with my partner, not sure what a
> linux-in-the-park event is suppose to be like.
> 
will the first one in Bickford Park (in '06 (that makes this the fourth 
annual)) looked like this;
http://linuxcaffe.ca/node/439

> I was thinking maybe we can make it for the guys and friends into a
> BBQ party? If everyone brings a little something, what do you guys
> think?
yes, I think that's what we think,
djp
> 
> Who would be planning this?
you and me and anyone else reading this.
djp
> 

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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 16:01:35 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:01:35 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <4A818F12.9090709-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>
 <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com>
 <4A818F12.9090709@moores.ca>
Message-ID: <20090811160135.GA12613@yam.witteman.ca>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:32:34AM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote:
>Haa suckers, I'm still in my 20's. I've have 5 more years till I even
>turn 30.
>
>'course I started counting my birthdays in hex way back when I turned
>1E. :-(

I don't concern myself with birthdays that don't require a change in
register  - and I have a while to go before 7 bits.  I suspect I won't
need to worry about 8.
-- 

yours,

William

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From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 16:01:48 2009
From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:01:48 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A819471.2030609-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <97b2e1209202520deca3255a82bc434f@teksavvy.com>	 <4A8164D4.8000408@linuxcaffe.ca> <a05162a70908110845y1327bbd2gbf9181dd11e9048e@mail.gmail.com> <4A819471.2030609@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <4A8195EC.3010709@moores.ca>

Sounds interesting. Too bad I'll be tripping through temagami at the time.

David J Patrick wrote:
> Rajinder Yadav wrote:
>> I would love to come with my partner, not sure what a
>> linux-in-the-park event is suppose to be like.
>>
> will the first one in Bickford Park (in '06 (that makes this the fourth
> annual)) looked like this;
> http://linuxcaffe.ca/node/439
> 
>> I was thinking maybe we can make it for the guys and friends into a
>> BBQ party? If everyone brings a little something, what do you guys
>> think?
> yes, I think that's what we think,
> djp
>>
>> Who would be planning this?
> you and me and anyone else reading this.
> djp
>>
> 
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 16:03:02 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:03:02 -0400
Subject: Looking for Samba help - connecting to AD
In-Reply-To: <4A8186B3.6080809-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A802875.2090400@telly.org>
	 <20090811141324.GB3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	 <4A8186B3.6080809@telly.org>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908110903p5ec7e33fgf75db29fb44aa37c@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/11 Evan Leibovitch <evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org>:
> Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>> [...]
>> So pretty simple, and no need for kerberos to get involved.
>>
>
>
> Thanks!
Actually, it could help to post the samba.conf file.  And a little
more information on the AD setup. As, are you aware if it was
installed clean or with backward compatibility for NT. If you
installed it clean, you will unfortunately have to fight with
kerberos.

To little information to assist here, I hope that would not sound a
little rude.

Regards,

William

>
>
> - Evan
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 16:24:00 2009
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:24:00 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908110845y1327bbd2gbf9181dd11e9048e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <97b2e1209202520deca3255a82bc434f@teksavvy.com>
	 <4A8164D4.8000408@linuxcaffe.ca>
	 <a05162a70908110845y1327bbd2gbf9181dd11e9048e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0908110924r691b244dnf5ea96c3c552cae@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Rajinder Yadav<devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I was thinking maybe we can make it for the guys and friends into a
> BBQ party? If everyone brings a little something, what do you guys
> think?
>
> Who would be planning this?

It's always a bit ad-hoc...

You should consider bringing something worth sharing.

I intend to bring a bag of samosas; that's one of the things that has
frequently been rather popular.

Usually someone brings some cans of pop; hopefully that is repeated.

If DJP is bringing a BBQ, then it would be worth considering bringing
things like:
 - Hot dogs/sausages + buns
 - "Meat on a stick" (some form of kebabs)
 - Interesting condiments for any of the above
-- 
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
Joan Crawford  - "I, Joan Crawford, I believe in the dollar.
Everything I earn, I spend." -
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/joan_crawford.html
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From mattseburn-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 16:32:01 2009
From: mattseburn-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Matt Seburn)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:32:01 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A816A4A.2090000-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <66abe7701a39ba8ece2b20c3f02d3aec@teksavvy.com>
	 <4A816A4A.2090000@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <8e023ee60908110932u4df21e15n79c9f18c9bd02f0f@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:55 AM, David J Patrick<djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> meng wrote:
>>
>> -----Original message-----
>> From: David J Patrick djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org
>> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:32:20 -0400
>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux in the park 2009
>>
>>> meng wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Any plans to hold the above event?
>>>
>>> This year, as in past years, linux-in-the-park is scheduled to happen on
>>> the Sunday after the second-to-last Saturday in August (this formula derived
>>> in order to piggy-back on the annual Jersey Street Party)
>>>
>>
>>
>> Aug 29? Great.
>
> nooooo
>
> Aug 23 !!!
> djp

I'm thinking about coming out and have never been to one of these
events before.. what sorts of things generally happen?  Is it the kind
of thing I'd want to bring my laptop to?  If so, will there be
electrical outlets available?  My battery lasts about 2.5 seconds
without being plugged in..

> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 16:42:02 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:42:02 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <8e023ee60908110932u4df21e15n79c9f18c9bd02f0f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <66abe7701a39ba8ece2b20c3f02d3aec@teksavvy.com>
	 <4A816A4A.2090000@linuxcaffe.ca>
	 <8e023ee60908110932u4df21e15n79c9f18c9bd02f0f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908110942w2138fdc8w6eb1d0c932a039db@mail.gmail.com>

Matt,

> I'm thinking about coming out and have never been to one of these
> events before.. what sorts of things generally happen? ?Is it the kind
> of thing I'd want to bring my laptop to? ?If so, will there be
> electrical outlets available? ?My battery lasts about 2.5 seconds
> without being plugged in..
>
I do not think you need a laptop. And as of your battery being crap,
is there a laptop out there that last longer than that except Macs and
think pads? I think its almost accepted that those batteries are just
UPS, to keep the system up when there is a short outage and that's
petty much it.

William
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 16:52:16 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:52:16 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908110942w2138fdc8w6eb1d0c932a039db-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <66abe7701a39ba8ece2b20c3f02d3aec@teksavvy.com> <4A816A4A.2090000@linuxcaffe.ca> <8e023ee60908110932u4df21e15n79c9f18c9bd02f0f@mail.gmail.com> <b8f780870908110942w2138fdc8w6eb1d0c932a039db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090811165216.GE3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:42:02PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote:
> I do not think you need a laptop. And as of your battery being crap,
> is there a laptop out there that last longer than that except Macs and
> think pads? I think its almost accepted that those batteries are just
> UPS, to keep the system up when there is a short outage and that's
> petty much it.

Well I can get about 2.5 hours out of my thinkpad (with a 6 cell not a
9 cell) under linux.

Amazingly a two line patch to kdebase-runtime reduced my power consumption
by 2.5W, which is about 15%.  I really should go pester them to make
that permanent.

powertop is a nifty toy to play with and figure out what is doing what
on your laptop.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 16:54:13 2009
From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:54:13 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <20090811165216.GE3444-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <66abe7701a39ba8ece2b20c3f02d3aec@teksavvy.com> <4A816A4A.2090000@linuxcaffe.ca> <8e023ee60908110932u4df21e15n79c9f18c9bd02f0f@mail.gmail.com> <b8f780870908110942w2138fdc8w6eb1d0c932a039db@mail.gmail.com> <20090811165216.GE3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4A81A235.9000904@moores.ca>

I get at least 4 with my XO. :-)

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:42:02PM -0400, William Muriithi wrote:
>> I do not think you need a laptop. And as of your battery being crap,
>> is there a laptop out there that last longer than that except Macs and
>> think pads? I think its almost accepted that those batteries are just
>> UPS, to keep the system up when there is a short outage and that's
>> petty much it.
> 
> Well I can get about 2.5 hours out of my thinkpad (with a 6 cell not a
> 9 cell) under linux.
> 
> Amazingly a two line patch to kdebase-runtime reduced my power consumption
> by 2.5W, which is about 15%.  I really should go pester them to make
> that permanent.
> 
> powertop is a nifty toy to play with and figure out what is doing what
> on your laptop.
> 
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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 17:02:28 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:02:28 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A819471.2030609-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <97b2e1209202520deca3255a82bc434f@teksavvy.com>
	 <4A8164D4.8000408@linuxcaffe.ca>
	 <a05162a70908110845y1327bbd2gbf9181dd11e9048e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A819471.2030609@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908111002j3a0349e2x7b3e022eb8975f5d@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:55 AM, David J Patrick<djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Rajinder Yadav wrote:
>>
>> I would love to come with my partner, not sure what a
>> linux-in-the-park event is suppose to be like.
>>
> will the first one in Bickford Park (in '06 (that makes this the fourth
> annual)) looked like this;
> http://linuxcaffe.ca/node/439
>
>> I was thinking maybe we can make it for the guys and friends into a
>> BBQ party? If everyone brings a little something, what do you guys
>> think?
>
> yes, I think that's what we think,
> djp
>>
>> Who would be planning this?
>
> you and me and anyone else reading this.
> djp
>>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

Cool I will sent you another private note with my contact info so I
can give you a hand to plan the event =)

Cheers!
-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 17:04:40 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:04:40 -0700
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908111004o6f1c778bl6a11a2867ec6240b@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Michael Lauzon<mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Well, today -- 11/08/09 -- is my 33rdf birthday, I am getting old. ?I
> haven't had a birthday party or a birthday present in almost 20 years,
> sucks to be me. ?Anyeverhow, I am now 33 and into my 34th year of
> life.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael Lauzon
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>


Hmm. Perhaps time for a new desktop wallpaper/mascot? :-)

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.wowinsider.com/media/2008/06/wowi_evil_penguin.jpg
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From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 17:04:45 2009
From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:04:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: New kernel newbie column:  kernel debugging with gdb.
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0908111304150.21549@localhost>


  http://cli.gs/LHaA4a.

rday
--

========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day                               Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

        Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry.

Web page:                                          http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter:                                       http://twitter.com/rpjday
========================================================================
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From maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 17:08:11 2009
From: maureen-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Maureen Thornton)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:08:11 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1250010491.6435.46.camel@bliss.ss.org>

Think of it this way, you are not getting older - just wiser and more
valuable!
maureen


On Tue, 2009-08-11 at 11:06 -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote:
> Well, today -- 11/08/09 -- is my 33rdf birthday, I am getting old.  I
> haven't had a birthday party or a birthday present in almost 20 years,
> sucks to be me.  Anyeverhow, I am now 33 and into my 34th year of
> life.
> 

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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 17:58:55 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:58:55 -0700
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>
	 <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Thomas
Milne<tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Michael Lauzon<mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> Well, today -- 11/08/09 -- is my 33rdf birthday, I am getting old. ?I
>> haven't had a birthday party or a birthday present in almost 20 years,
>> sucks to be me. ?Anyeverhow, I am now 33 and into my 34th year of
>> life.
>
> 33!? Please, I would be glad to be 33 again. Enjoy it while you can :-)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

For those that are older-than-I, it's one thing I've always wondered.
I know a lot more than I did when I was younger - say in High School -
but picking up new concepts sometimes seems to take a little longer
than it did. Perhaps it was just when I was younger I had more free
time for such things, but I do remember doing some pretty cool
programming tricks and coming up with rather outrageous ideas (that
worked, even!), etc, even if it was all very non-standard and rather
unorthodox.

Do you ever feel that the old grey-matter has slowed down a bit? How
do you keep it in shape?
--
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 18:04:19 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:04:19 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>	 <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A81B2A3.6080103@linuxcaffe.ca>

Tyler Aviss wrote:

> 
> Do you ever feel that the old grey-matter has slowed down a bit? How
> do you keep it in shape?

Just face it Tyler, the brain is at it biggest and best at about age 9.
It's downhill from there, compensated by experience.
By the time we get old, the brain is usually a well-traveled jalopy.
Exercise it, feed it omega3 a zinc, learn to oxygenate it, and it might 
last a bit longer.
That's why young people think old people are idiots.
That's why old people thing young people are inexperienced, but 
annoyingly bright.
c'est la vie,
djp
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From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 18:08:06 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:08:06 -0400
Subject: Linux in the park 2009
In-Reply-To: <4A81911A.9020007-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <97b2e1209202520deca3255a82bc434f@teksavvy.com> 
	<4A8164D4.8000408@linuxcaffe.ca> <7c50d3570908110808q14087d21t6e2588aee2cb6757@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4A81911A.9020007@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908111108l34713e26qe4ccb0fa94f6a0ad@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:41, David J Patrick<djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> yes
> Saturday, Aug 22nd
> JSP09, the third annual, it will be fantastic (again) and then on Sunday we
> can (for the third year in a row) enjoy some outdoor geekiness and the
> spoils of the previous day's party.
>
> that doesn't mean nobody has to bring nothing,
> some input from youse guys would be dandy,
> but I can supply a park, a BBQ and some grub.
> djp

Well, I am going to ask again: Jersey Street Party? O_o


-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
--
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From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 18:12:01 2009
From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:12:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>  <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908111410420.5132@doublethink>

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, Tyler Aviss wrote:
...
> Do you ever feel that the old grey-matter has slowed down a bit?

   No, and I'm approaching my 60th birthday.

> How do you keep it in shape?

   Use it.

-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
   ===================================================================
   Author:
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 18:19:06 2009
From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:19:06 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>
	<cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090811141906.6812cb2d@teksavvy.com>

Tyler Aviss wrote: 

> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Thomas
> Milne<tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Michael Lauzon<mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:  
> >> Well, today -- 11/08/09 -- is my 33rdf birthday, I am getting old. ?I
> >> haven't had a birthday party or a birthday present in almost 20 years,
> >> sucks to be me. ?Anyeverhow, I am now 33 and into my 34th year of
> >> life.  
> >
> > 33!? Please, I would be glad to be 33 again. Enjoy it while you can :-)
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> >  
> 
> For those that are older-than-I, it's one thing I've always wondered.
> I know a lot more than I did when I was younger - say in High School -
> but picking up new concepts sometimes seems to take a little longer
> than it did. Perhaps it was just when I was younger I had more free
> time for such things, but I do remember doing some pretty cool
> programming tricks and coming up with rather outrageous ideas (that
> worked, even!), etc, even if it was all very non-standard and rather
> unorthodox.

Experience can actually help with things like that. From what I've been reading
lately (and noticing in myself a little bit), things like intuitive thinking are
greatly improved with experience, so even though there is the tendency to be
more conservative with the 'new ideas', there can be a greater capacity for
creative thinking. Notice I said 'can be'. ;)

> Do you ever feel that the old grey-matter has slowed down a bit? How
> do you keep it in shape?

Don't drink, don't smoke, keep moving. If I had done those things when I was 33
my life would be a lot better now. If you're already doing those things, you
really don't have much to worry about except getting taken out by a bus or
something.

-- 
J
--
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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 11 20:46:25 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:46:25 -0400
Subject: OT: Google unveils new 'Caffeine' search engine
Message-ID: <b693cec010726301e931745521995eb8@teksavvy.com>

Google unveils new 'Caffeine' search engine

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/personal_tech/article6792403.ece

The new engine can be tested here
http://www2.sandbox.google.com/

Cheers

Meng

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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 12 01:45:55 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:45:55 -0700
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908111410420.5132@doublethink>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>  <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908111410420.5132@doublethink>
Message-ID: <D50D9814-90B2-4258-8203-5D850A6E671F@gmail.com>



(sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos)

On 11-Aug-09, at 11:12 AM, "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org>  
wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, Tyler Aviss wrote:
> ...
>> Do you ever feel that the old grey-matter has slowed down a bit?
>
>   No, and I'm approaching my 60th birthday.
>
>> How do you keep it in shape?
>
>   Use it.

Of course, but that comes in varying degrees. The question is how?  
Reading, coding, chess, strategy games, debating on the LUG?

>
> -- 
>   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
>   ===================================================================
>   Author:
>   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 12 02:52:59 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:52:59 -0400
Subject: Does anyone here own a Google developer phone?
Message-ID: <4A822E8B.2090509@telly.org>

Even though it's half a year old, the Google Dev Phone 1 still looks
like a good buy at $424US fully unlocked. It's the first model to get
news Android builds, and it appears to be a fully functional HTC Dream 
(without the MS Exchange connectivity which I neither need nor want).

And having an unlocked phone may be useful given the coming new wireless
carriers that should be opening up over the next year or so.

Is there anyone on this list who has a Dev Phone 1 and can offer any
comments? Is it still worth getting? Or is there something Android-ish
coming down the channel that's worth waiting for?

Thanks for any answers.

- Evan

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From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 12 12:47:41 2009
From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:47:41 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <D50D9814-90B2-4258-8203-5D850A6E671F-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>, <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908111410420.5132@doublethink>, <D50D9814-90B2-4258-8203-5D850A6E671F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8281AD.29365.594FD607@sciguy.vex.net>

> >   Use it.
> 
> Of course, but that comes in varying degrees. The question is how?  
> Reading, coding, chess, strategy games, debating on the LUG?

Yes. Good choices.

Paul
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 12 13:44:48 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:44:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <20090811141906.6812cb2d-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com> <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com> <20090811141906.6812cb2d@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908120928510.19396@castor.opentrend.net>


On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, JoeHill wrote:

> Experience can actually help with things like that. From what I've been 
> reading lately (and noticing in myself a little bit), things like 
> intuitive thinking are greatly improved with experience, so even though 
> there is the tendency to be more conservative with the 'new ideas',

It is worth noting that this is only relative to oneself.  I've always 
been very open to new ideas and as a 36 year old I'm sure I'm still more 
open to new ideas than a lot of 20 year olds out there :)

I expect we'd find a much higher proportion of free thinkers on this list 
than in the general population.

Research shows that the human brain slows as it ages too.  This may well 
be true but I'm sure I've learnt to make better use of my mental faculties 
as I've aged.

Tyler Aviss wrote:
>> Do you ever feel that the old grey-matter has slowed down a bit? How
>> do you keep it in shape?

Research shows that mental activity and exercise are both important.  Not 
only decline in capacity but even mental diseases (like dementia) are less 
likely if you keep your brain active, I understand.

Cheers,

Rob

-- 
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html
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The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 12 14:17:50 2009
From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:17:50 +0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908120928510.19396-VmJVFCIrpYC0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com> <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com> <20090811141906.6812cb2d@teksavvy.com> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908120928510.19396@castor.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <4A82CF0E.1000907@gmail.com>

Someone asked how it is?

I am close to 50.

Yes, I remember when I was in army (forced) in Poland, in 1987.  I was 
so tired and hopeless there, and  since I was "much" older than most of 
soldiers my feeling was that I am so old...

Now it makes me lughting when someone says that he is 33 or something, 
and things that he is old. At 36 I took bicycle and drive from Winnipeg 
to Toronto, with no food, no money, with nothing. Well, now I would 
probably would not do that - thats age difference. But I am still able 
to do crazy things - I come from Canada to Russia for living ;) Most of 
you would never ever be able to do such a thing regardless of your age ;)

Right, mind changes with age. Reactions and thoughts become less 
spontaneous. Is there less creativity? I am not sure. As others noticed, 
that probably depends on the state of mind, if you really are used to 
use your mind. I see around of me a lot of people who are not creative 
at all, regardless of their age. To such an even extend that I feel 
bored between them. And that feeling is with me for the most of my life.

Certainly, if life opportunities contribute into that, one gets wiser 
with age. That sort of wisdom does contribute into creativity. Sure, I 
could not be Einstein anymore (who made his most important works in his 
early twenties).

zb.
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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 12 14:41:54 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:41:54 -0700
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <4A82CF0E.1000907-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>
	 <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com>
	 <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090811141906.6812cb2d@teksavvy.com>
	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908120928510.19396@castor.opentrend.net>
	 <4A82CF0E.1000907@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908120741p5bf085c7u6d2689199fe35196@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Zbigniew Koziol<softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Someone asked how it is?
>
> I am close to 50.
>
> Yes, I remember when I was in army (forced) in Poland, in 1987. ?I was so
> tired and hopeless there, and ?since I was "much" older than most of
> soldiers my feeling was that I am so old...
>
> Now it makes me lughting when someone says that he is 33 or something, and
> things that he is old. At 36 I took bicycle and drive from Winnipeg to
> Toronto, with no food, no money, with nothing. Well, now I would probably
> would not do that - thats age difference. But I am still able to do crazy
> things - I come from Canada to Russia for living ;) Most of you would never
> ever be able to do such a thing regardless of your age ;)
>
> Right, mind changes with age. Reactions and thoughts become less
> spontaneous. Is there less creativity? I am not sure. As others noticed,
> that probably depends on the state of mind, if you really are used to use
> your mind. I see around of me a lot of people who are not creative at all,
> regardless of their age. To such an even extend that I feel bored between
> them. And that feeling is with me for the most of my life.
>
> Certainly, if life opportunities contribute into that, one gets wiser with
> age. That sort of wisdom does contribute into creativity. Sure, I could not
> be Einstein anymore (who made his most important works in his early
> twenties).
>
> zb.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

A yes, well age *is* relative of course.
My grandfather when in his early 70's was more fit than many people I
know in the 30's. He was a fairly avid outdoorsman (x-cross skiing in
the winter, hiking/trail-biking in summer). I'm guessing that the
fitness of body and mind went well together.

Unfortunately it seems that these days, neither are proof against
cancer. So I suppose that a lesson from that might be to enjoy life as
much as (reasonably/responsibly) possible regardless of one's age.

I just hope I'm in as good shape as he is when I get to my 70's, minus
the cancer of course.

I do find your note about Einstein very interesting too. If his most
important works were in his twenties, then it's amusing that we always
portray him in his aged form. I suppose that wisdom is more associated
with being older, regardless of how clever one is in youth, that or
they didn't have any pictures of him in the younger days :-)


- TJA
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From pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 12 14:51:13 2009
From: pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Pete Lancashire)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:51:13 -0700
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908120928510.19396-VmJVFCIrpYC0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>
    <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com>
    <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com>
    <20090811141906.6812cb2d@teksavvy.com>
    <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908120928510.19396@castor.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <ddde619c5b14c29c3060cb1eca55d9eb.squirrel@petelancashire.com>

reordering two ..

> I expect we'd find a much higher proportion of free thinkers on this list
> than in the general population.

Much more then you think, anyone in a XXXUG group is pretty much
just by being a member. We are the 'outcasts'.

> It is worth noting that this is only relative to oneself.  I've always
> been very open to new ideas and as a 36 year old I'm sure I'm still more
> open to new ideas than a lot of 20 year olds out there :)

Most 'real' technology people have not only no issues with sharing their
knowledge and experiences but enjoy doing it. 180 deg from most others.
Again the 'outcasts'.

I worked for what once was considered one of the highest technology
companies in its field. One thing they would do is team up engineers
that were at each end of the age/experience curve.

If I had the opportunity to run a company it would be almost a
requirement.

Heck, even though the next decade from me will start with me being
60, I still have fun on the Playstation.

-pete another 'outcast'



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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 12 14:50:42 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:50:42 -0700
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <20090811141609.GC3444-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090811141609.GC3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908120750y4710238dk5c95ad038517130c@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Lennart
Sorensen<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 01:16:03PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote:
>> I am wanting to use a UPS for 2 servers at work. One is linux one is
>> ESX3.5i. I am hoping to have it stablize the current (we have problems
>> with power surges) as well as tell the machines to turn off if there
>> is no power.
>>
>> I am looking for compatibility with Linux (so the Linux server
>> understands the call from the UPS to shut it down as well as ESX).
>
> I have always been happy with APC. ?The APC Smartups 1500 being my
> prefered UPS (at least whenever Dell puts it on sale for $200). ?I tried
> a PC Power & Cooling Pro-Source 1500 a few days ago, and managed to get
> it working with 'nut' on linux. ?Seems OK, although apcupsd is nicer to
> work with so far. ?The prosource is about $300, which makes it about
> half the normal cost of the APC.
>
> --
> Len Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

I'll add my backing behind the APC 1500, and APCUPSD is wonderful
(also works with nagios, etc). We've had pretty good luck with them.

I also have an older/smaller APC at home that's probably 5-8 years old
battery-wise yet still works to keep my NAT box alive during
short-medium outages. I've only ever dealt with APC's "brick" style
UPS's though, not the rack-friendly ones. For racks, I've had OK luck
with tripp-lite for medium-lower VA requirements.

On brands to avoid, I'd say powerware makes the list based on my
experience with those at a previous employer.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 12 15:57:24 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:57:24 -0400
Subject: Judge: Microsoft can't sell Word anymore
Message-ID: <4A82E664.70903@rogers.com>


http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/176223.asp?from=blog_last3

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From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 12 16:08:28 2009
From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:08:28 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <daf2a09e0908120908q39a0628cne7a069d34637054a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Dave Germiquet <davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I am wanting to use a UPS for 2 servers at work. One is linux one is
> ESX3.5i. I am hoping to have it stablize the current (we have problems
> with power surges) as well as tell the machines to turn off if there
> is no power.
>
> I am looking for compatibility with Linux (so the Linux server
> understands the call from the UPS to shut it down as well as ESX).
>
> Any suggestions?
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

I use to sell UPSes that were used for Beowulf Clusters. You will want to
make sure that you purchase a line-interactive UPS. You can get cheaper
UPSes that will not properly protect from Surges and brownouts so don't buy
the really cheap stuff.

While APC is popular, battery life is not the best. If you are willing to
spend a bit more, I would look into Eaton's PowerWare line.

http://powerquality.eaton.com/canada/

Westburne is the Canadian Distributor but the tend not to know much about
the UPS line. They can put you in touch with the PowerWare guys though if
you have any questions.



-- 
Mark Lane <lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 12 17:32:56 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:32:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Friend looking for a JS/Python Coder
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908121330460.19396@castor.opentrend.net>

Hi all.  An old friend of mine is looking for a JavaScript/Python coder. 
I understand working remotely may be an option.

If you're interested please contact David Wood <david-wwPzFryyfoRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org>.

Cheers,

Rob

-------------%<-------------

Job Function:  Engineering, Software Engineer
Pay Range:  Based on Experience
Industry:  Technology, Software
Experience:  5 - 7 years
Type:  Contract

Software Engineer at Zepheira, LLC

Zepheira is seeking a senior software engineer to join the small, highly 
focused Freemix engineering team (see http://freemix.it). There is a large 
emphasis on contribution to and use of FLOSS software, Internet and data 
standards, and flexible, modern software engineering practices. Very strong 
Python and Javascript language knowledge and experience with Web 
Architecture/REST, RDF, XML and CSS strongly preferred.

The Freemix product team is responsible for integrating customer requirements 
from the Zepheira services team to create a commercially-supported software 
product that is the foundation of customer solutions delivered by Zepheira.

Duties and responsibilities include:

* Translate customer requirements on multiple project engagements into robust 
software solutions that fit the architectural principles and framework 
prescribed by the architecture staff.

* Analyze current programs including performance, diagnosis and troubleshooting 
of software problems, and development of appropriate solutions.

* Analyze system specifications and translate customer requirements to task 
specifications for contract programmers.

* Perform the role of technical lead for multiple projects and supervise 
technical staff to meet deliverables on time and with the highest quality. 
Ability to work with others when not acting as a technical lead.

* Document code consistently throughout the development process as using 
guidelines defined by the technical team. Ensure project technical staff also 
provides documentation that meets specifications.

* Provide assistance to testers and support personnel as needed to determine 
system problems.

* Work closely with architects and project manager for all assigned projects 
performing duties as required.

* Respond promptly and professionally to bug reports.


LOCATION:

Fredericksburg , VA 22408
VA - Northern
United States

This job is location independent for the right candidate, but Virginia is 
preferred.


COMPANY:

Zepheira, LLC
David Wood
Partner
Phone: +1 (540) 898-6410
Fax: +1 (877) 290-6687
http://zepheira.com/

Zepheira is a leading global provider of services applying semantic technology 
and Web architecture to information integration challenges, especially to 
support collaboration and social computing. Zepheira identifies patterns and 
relationships inherent in data, to deliver strategies that reduce complexity 
and increase collaboration.

Zepheira supports the Internet's Persistent URL software (see http://purlz.org 
and http://purl.org) and Freemix, a social networking site for data (see 
http://freemix.it).
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 12 21:55:59 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:55:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <4A82CF0E.1000907-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com> <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com> <20090811141906.6812cb2d@teksavvy.com>
 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908120928510.19396@castor.opentrend.net> <4A82CF0E.1000907@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908121738280.19396@castor.opentrend.net>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009, Zbigniew Koziol wrote:

> Now it makes me lughting when someone says that he is 33 or something, and 
> things that he is old. At 36 I took bicycle and drive from Winnipeg to 
> Toronto, with no food, no money, with nothing. Well, now I would probably

I didn't mean to suggest I was old at 36 but I can certainly notice a 
physical difference from 26 (or 21).  I used to get by on scant sleep in 
my 20s.  Now I just can't :)

> would not do that - thats age difference. But I am still able to do crazy 
> things - I come from Canada to Russia for living ;) Most of you would never 
> ever be able to do such a thing regardless of your age ;)

I migrated to Canada at 30.  I reflected that it would have been more 
difficult the older I got as I would have been more settled in my home 
country.

> Right, mind changes with age. Reactions and thoughts become less spontaneous.

True but you gain a lot with experience.  So far I think the trade off has 
been worth it.

> Certainly, if life opportunities contribute into that, one gets wiser with 
> age. That sort of wisdom does contribute into creativity. Sure, I could not 
> be Einstein anymore (who made his most important works in his early 
> twenties).

Almost all scientists make their major contributions in their first 10 
years of professional research.

While I'm not a scientist I work towards the advancement of my profession 
(system administration) with original work.  I like to think I have many 
more contributions to make yet.

I'm currently developing a site where I am releasing much of my work on 
system administration as a single body of work for the first time.  Up to 
this time it has been released piecemeal, often on mailing lists.  The 
site is actually online but I've refrained from announcing it until it is 
'beta' quality.  People drop in via search engines from time to time 
though.

Cheers,

Rob

-- 
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 12 22:14:47 2009
From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:14:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>	 <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com> <4A81B2A3.6080103@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <loom.20090812T221209-59@post.gmane.org>

David J Patrick <djp at ...> writes:
> Just face it Tyler, the brain is at it biggest and best at about age 9.
> It's downhill from there, compensated by experience.

Some people who study this kind of thing for a living, in educational circles,
strongly believe that the brain peaks at about 21 to 24 years of age, and then
drops by about 10% for every 10 years over that. I tend to agree, but the decay
applies only to things one does not refresh or use. Those one does use and
refresh, get better indefinitely or until Alzheimer offsets all the efforts :)

Peter


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From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 07:57:52 2009
From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:57:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
Message-ID: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908130328180.5132@doublethink>


   I am in the market for a new desktop system, but my knowledge of PC
   hardware is very limited. I have only bought one X86 system in my
   life (described below) though I had inherited a couple previously.

   Can you make any suggestions about what to get, what to avoid,
   where to buy, where not to buy, etc.?

   I am considering something like this, with an added 1TB HD:
   <http://www.sonnam.com/system.asp?prod_ID=SYS-SN-CLE-0005>

   I am not a gamer; the most taxing use I have for the video card is
   probably playing DVDs and YouTube downloads.

   I do care about sound quality (all my music is on my HD), but I
   don't care about a lot of features. (I don't even want the ability
   to mix sound sources; I want only my music to be heard. The
   computer should otherwise be silent apart from the PC speaker.)



   Current hardware (bought March 2002, RAM and HDDs upgraded)

   P4 1.6GHz
   1GB DDR RAM
   Nvidia Riva TNT2 32MB
   IDE drives:
     160 GB
     250 GB
     500 GB
   17" CRT monitor


   I have the following running at all times:

   20 desktops (WindowMaker, 2 banks of 10)
   9 rxvt terminal windows:
           3 local shell
           1 alpine
           1 slrn
           1 root shell
           3 ssh to remote
   emacs - user, 3 windows
   emacs - root, 1 window
   2 gentoo file managers
   oowriter - 2+ windows (until book is finished -- a few more weeks)



-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
   ===================================================================
   Author:
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 11:31:15 2009
From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:31:15 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <loom.20090812T221209-59-eS7Uydv5nfjZ+VzJOa5vwg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>, <loom.20090812T221209-59@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4A83C143.10642.2171DAF@sciguy.vex.net>

> David J Patrick <djp at ...> writes:
> > Just face it Tyler, the brain is at it biggest and best at about age 9.
> > It's downhill from there, compensated by experience.
> 
> Some people who study this kind of thing for a living, in educational circles,
> strongly believe that the brain peaks at about 21 to 24 years of age, and then
> drops by about 10% for every 10 years over that. I tend to agree, but the decay
> applies only to things one does not refresh or use. Those one does use and
> refresh, get better indefinitely or until Alzheimer offsets all the efforts :)
> 
> Peter
> 
But David is right. At around age 9, the head of the child is disproportionally 
larger than the rest of the body, then stops growing as the rest of the body 
catches up (and the skull closes over the developing brain, placing an absolute 
limit on its growth). At 9-11 or so, brain cells are dying and being generated 
at equal rates. As puberty sets in, brain cells begin to die faster than they 
are being generated. Your body is at its physical peak at around 21, which also 
means you are alert and have great stamina for things like university. But you 
will never learn things at the same rate as a prepubescent child, or for that 
matter, an infant or toddler.

Does it take away any credence from people on this list who claim to not notice 
any loss in mental agility at age 60? Probably not. We only ever use a small 
percentage of our brain cells anyway (less than 20% I hear), so the best thing 
to do is to make the best use of what you have, learn as much as you can 
throughout life, since that maximizes connections between brain cells. We have 
more brain cells than we can possibly use, but to not learn new things 
throughout life will accelerate the deterioration, and possibly lead to forms 
of senility and dementia in old age. You also have to keep your body fit too.

Paul King

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 12:01:28 2009
From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:01:28 -0400
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908130328180.5132@doublethink>
References: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908130328180.5132@doublethink>
Message-ID: <daf2a09e0908130501k6d71238ak73257680af7031a2@mail.gmail.com>

That's not bad and a solid basic system. I would want more specs though
before buying a system. You will want to start with a good case, power and
motherboard and work from there.

Currently one of the nicer motherboards out there for AMD would be ASUS
M4A78 PLUS. It comes with like 6 SATA ports and an eSATA port on the back
plane. It has 8 CH HD Audio (RealTek), 10 USB 2 Ports, GigE, 2x16 PCIe,
Cross Fire Support. It will support AM2/3 processors.

Any of the AMD processors should be good here. The 5200+ would be the base
model here. If you want to go with 4 Cores, skip the Phenom and go with the
Phenom II. If they suggest a black box that just means the processor doesn't
have it's multiplier locked and is easier to over clock.

For a case the Antec Sonata III 500 is a really nice case and can be had for
$140. It comes with an Antec Earth Watts 500Watt Power Supply. Watch the
package deals like the quote included. They tend to come with really cheap
cases and no name power. A cheap case isn't much of an issue other than they
tend to have sharp corners so you are more likely to cut yourself on them.
The power on the other hand is an issue. So if you go with a 30 or 40 dollar
case, I would recommend replacing the power supply with something better.

For memory, I would get a minimum of 2GB of DDR2. Remember the AMD
processors do not support dual channel 1066 memory so you probably don't
need more that 800MHz memory as dual channel 800 should be faster than
running 1066 in single channel.

For video, since you are not into gaming pretty much any thing will work.
Personally I would go with something like a Radeon HD 4670 though even a
4350 would be fine for what you are doing. You could also switch to a
motherboard with video onboard to save money here. I would stick with the
AMD chipset though on the motherboard.

For a DVD burner, I like the pioneer more that LG or Liteon. It will run you
about 5 dollars more and might be only 20x instead of 22x. I had an LG and
it sounded like a plane taking off.

For that 1 GB Hard Disk, WD or Seagate Sata II drive should work well for
you.



On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:57 AM, Chris F.A. Johnson <cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org>wrote:

>
>   I am in the market for a new desktop system, but my knowledge of PC
>   hardware is very limited. I have only bought one X86 system in my
>   life (described below) though I had inherited a couple previously.
>
>   Can you make any suggestions about what to get, what to avoid,
>   where to buy, where not to buy, etc.?
>
>   I am considering something like this, with an added 1TB HD:
>   <http://www.sonnam.com/system.asp?prod_ID=SYS-SN-CLE-0005>
>
>   I am not a gamer; the most taxing use I have for the video card is
>   probably playing DVDs and YouTube downloads.
>
>   I do care about sound quality (all my music is on my HD), but I
>   don't care about a lot of features. (I don't even want the ability
>   to mix sound sources; I want only my music to be heard. The
>   computer should otherwise be silent apart from the PC speaker.)
>
>
>
>   Current hardware (bought March 2002, RAM and HDDs upgraded)
>
>   P4 1.6GHz
>   1GB DDR RAM
>   Nvidia Riva TNT2 32MB
>   IDE drives:
>     160 GB
>     250 GB
>     500 GB
>   17" CRT monitor
>
>
>   I have the following running at all times:
>
>   20 desktops (WindowMaker, 2 banks of 10)
>   9 rxvt terminal windows:
>           3 local shell
>           1 alpine
>           1 slrn
>           1 root shell
>           3 ssh to remote
>   emacs - user, 3 windows
>   emacs - root, 1 window
>   2 gentoo file managers
>   oowriter - 2+ windows (until book is finished -- a few more weeks)
>
>
>
> --
>   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
>   ===================================================================
>   Author:
>   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>



-- 
Mark Lane <lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
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From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 12:53:34 2009
From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:53:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908130328180.5132@doublethink>
References: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908130328180.5132@doublethink>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908130852020.13621@rosette.pegasoft.ca>


Hardware is so over-powered these days it's not fully.  For a shell script 
junky like yourself, just about any machine would do with 2 GHz, 2 GB. 
Have you considered a low-end Lenovo laptop so you can carry your music 
where you go?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken O. Burtch                                       Phone/Fax: 905-562-0848
   "Linux Shell Scripting with Bash"                  Email: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
   "Perl Phrasebook"                 Blog: http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

>
>   I am in the market for a new desktop system, but my knowledge of PC
>   hardware is very limited. I have only bought one X86 system in my
>   life (described below) though I had inherited a couple previously.
>
>   Can you make any suggestions about what to get, what to avoid,
>   where to buy, where not to buy, etc.?
>
>   I am considering something like this, with an added 1TB HD:
>   <http://www.sonnam.com/system.asp?prod_ID=SYS-SN-CLE-0005>
>
>   I am not a gamer; the most taxing use I have for the video card is
>   probably playing DVDs and YouTube downloads.
>
>   I do care about sound quality (all my music is on my HD), but I
>   don't care about a lot of features. (I don't even want the ability
>   to mix sound sources; I want only my music to be heard. The
>   computer should otherwise be silent apart from the PC speaker.)
>
>
>
>   Current hardware (bought March 2002, RAM and HDDs upgraded)
>
>   P4 1.6GHz
>   1GB DDR RAM
>   Nvidia Riva TNT2 32MB
>   IDE drives:
>     160 GB
>     250 GB
>     500 GB
>   17" CRT monitor
>
>
>   I have the following running at all times:
>
>   20 desktops (WindowMaker, 2 banks of 10)
>   9 rxvt terminal windows:
>           3 local shell
>           1 alpine
>           1 slrn
>           1 root shell
>           3 ssh to remote
>   emacs - user, 3 windows
>   emacs - root, 1 window
>   2 gentoo file managers
>   oowriter - 2+ windows (until book is finished -- a few more weeks)
>
>
>
> --
>   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
>   ===================================================================
>   Author:
>   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 13:20:16 2009
From: mrsabidel-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Abidel Bassie-Cripps)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:20:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
Message-ID: <299960.73234.qm@web59504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

The link you supplied looks like a good system, but if you shop around you may get a better price.

Everyone has there favourites, myself its: AMD64 3500, 2G RAM, 250G HD, onboard:lan, navidi video, sound, etc. (quality speekers not included). This system should be cheaper and due very well for what you described. Just the PC, it cost me $200 a little while back.

This guy has been very good to me in the past. http://routervillage.com/ He is not much into website, but equipment, he is very good with. Good pricing for referburbished and new.

Good luck in your search!
Abby



________________________________
From: Chris F.A. Johnson <cfaj at freeshell.org>
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:57:52 AM
Subject: [TLUG]: Hardware recommendations, please


   I am in the market for a new desktop system, but my knowledge of PC
   hardware is very limited. I have only bought one X86 system in my
   life (described below) though I had inherited a couple previously.

   Can you make any suggestions about what to get, what to avoid,
   where to buy, where not to buy, etc.?

   I am considering something like this, with an added 1TB HD:
   <http://www.sonnam.com/system.asp?prod_ID=SYS-SN-CLE-0005>

   I am not a gamer; the most taxing use I have for the video card is
   probably playing DVDs and YouTube downloads.

   I do care about sound quality (all my music is on my HD), but I
   don't care about a lot of features. (I don't even want the ability
   to mix sound sources; I want only my music to be heard. The
   computer should otherwise be silent apart from the PC speaker.)



   Current hardware (bought March 2002, RAM and HDDs upgraded)

   P4 1.6GHz
   1GB DDR RAM
   Nvidia Riva TNT2 32MB
   IDE drives:
     160 GB
     250 GB
     500 GB
   17" CRT monitor


   I have the following running at all times:

   20 desktops (WindowMaker, 2 banks of 10)
   9 rxvt terminal windows:
           3 local shell
           1 alpine
           1 slrn
           1 root shell
           3 ssh to remote
   emacs - user, 3 windows
   emacs - root, 1 window
   2 gentoo file managers
   oowriter - 2+ windows (until book is finished -- a few more weeks)



-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
   ===================================================================
   Author:
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists



      __________________________________________________________________
Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer? 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
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From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 14:21:34 2009
From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:21:34 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0908120750y4710238dk5c95ad038517130c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com>	 <20090811141609.GC3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0908120750y4710238dk5c95ad038517130c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A84216E.3020308@utoronto.ca>

On 08/12/2009 10:50 AM, Tyler Aviss wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Lennart
> Sorensen<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>  wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 01:16:03PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote:
>>> I am wanting to use a UPS for 2 servers at work. One is linux one is
>>> ESX3.5i. I am hoping to have it stablize the current (we have problems
>>> with power surges) as well as tell the machines to turn off if there
>>> is no power.
>>>
>>> I am looking for compatibility with Linux (so the Linux server
>>> understands the call from the UPS to shut it down as well as ESX).
>>
>> I have always been happy with APC.  The APC Smartups 1500 being my
>> prefered UPS (at least whenever Dell puts it on sale for $200).  I tried
>> a PC Power&  Cooling Pro-Source 1500 a few days ago, and managed to get
>> it working with 'nut' on linux.  Seems OK, although apcupsd is nicer to
>> work with so far.  The prosource is about $300, which makes it about
>> half the normal cost of the APC.
>>
>> --
>> Len Sorensen
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>
>
> I'll add my backing behind the APC 1500, and APCUPSD is wonderful
> (also works with nagios, etc). We've had pretty good luck with them.
>
> I also have an older/smaller APC at home that's probably 5-8 years old
> battery-wise yet still works to keep my NAT box alive during
> short-medium outages. I've only ever dealt with APC's "brick" style
> UPS's though, not the rack-friendly ones. For racks, I've had OK luck
> with tripp-lite for medium-lower VA requirements.
>
> On brands to avoid, I'd say powerware makes the list based on my
> experience with those at a previous employer.

I'll chime in with a plug for the 1500VA, 2U unit. With an ethernet card 
it is really easy to remotely administer the UPS -- telnet, ssh, http 
etc., take your pick.

Jamon
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 14:31:44 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:31:44 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <4A83C143.10642.2171DAF-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>, <loom.20090812T221209-59@post.gmane.org> <4A83C143.10642.2171DAF@sciguy.vex.net>
Message-ID: <4A8423D0.90301@linuxcaffe.ca>

Paul King wrote:
>> David J Patrick <djp at ...> writes:
>>> Just face it Tyler, the brain is at it biggest and best at about age 9.
>>> It's downhill from there, compensated by experience.
> But David is right. At around age 9, the head of the child is disproportionally 
> larger than the rest of the body, then stops growing as the rest of the body 
> catches up

In fact, the brain forms ~6 billion synaptic connections, between the 
ages of 2 and 4, and then those new connections decay to about 3 billion 
by puberty. A toddlers learning ability is never repeated so (hey new 
parents) this is the window.
djp
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 14:36:19 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:36:19 -0400
Subject: Ardour workshop TODAY !
Message-ID: <4A8424E3.2000306@linuxcaffe.ca>

So you want to set up a professional-grade Digital Audio Workstation, on 
you linux box?
Join us at linuxcaffe at 7pm this evening, because the one and only 
Benny Powers (the principal author of the Ardour Tutorial) will be 
giving his famous demo.

There is a pay-what-you-can jar, and the proceeds will be donated to 
charity.

Sorry for the last-minute notice, come if you can,
djp
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 14:43:26 2009
From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:43:26 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <4A8423D0.90301-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>, <loom.20090812T221209-59@post.gmane.org> <4A83C143.10642.2171DAF@sciguy.vex.net> <4A8423D0.90301@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <4A84268E.3030105@moores.ca>

Hmmm, that might explain why, by the age of 16, the centre for deep
thought and moral judgement shifts from the brain to other anatomical
regions which have also undergone recent growth spurts.
:-)

David J Patrick wrote:
> Paul King wrote:
>>> David J Patrick <djp at ...> writes:
>>>> Just face it Tyler, the brain is at it biggest and best at about age 9.
>>>> It's downhill from there, compensated by experience.
>> But David is right. At around age 9, the head of the child is
>> disproportionally larger than the rest of the body, then stops growing
>> as the rest of the body catches up
> 
> In fact, the brain forms ~6 billion synaptic connections, between the
> ages of 2 and 4, and then those new connections decay to about 3 billion
> by puberty. A toddlers learning ability is never repeated so (hey new
> parents) this is the window.
> djp
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 16:14:30 2009
From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:14:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908130852020.13621-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908130328180.5132@doublethink> <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908130852020.13621@rosette.pegasoft.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908131210280.5132@doublethink>

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, Ken Burtch wrote:

> Hardware is so over-powered these days it's not fully.  For a shell script
> junky like yourself, just about any machine would do with 2 GHz, 2 GB. Have
> you considered a low-end Lenovo laptop so you can carry your music where you
> go?

   Is there a laptop with a full-size keyboard (including keypad) and
   a 22"-24" screen I can place ~32" directly in front of me and ~18"
   from the keyboard?

> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> 
> > 
> >   I am in the market for a new desktop system, but my knowledge of PC
> >   hardware is very limited. I have only bought one X86 system in my
> >   life (described below) though I had inherited a couple previously.
> > 
> >   Can you make any suggestions about what to get, what to avoid,
> >   where to buy, where not to buy, etc.?
> > 
> >   I am considering something like this, with an added 1TB HD:
> >   <http://www.sonnam.com/system.asp?prod_ID=SYS-SN-CLE-0005>
> > 
> >   I am not a gamer; the most taxing use I have for the video card is
> >   probably playing DVDs and YouTube downloads.
> > 
> >   I do care about sound quality (all my music is on my HD), but I
> >   don't care about a lot of features. (I don't even want the ability
> >   to mix sound sources; I want only my music to be heard. The
> >   computer should otherwise be silent apart from the PC speaker.)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   Current hardware (bought March 2002, RAM and HDDs upgraded)
> > 
> >   P4 1.6GHz
> >   1GB DDR RAM
> >   Nvidia Riva TNT2 32MB
> >   IDE drives:
> >     160 GB
> >     250 GB
> >     500 GB
> >   17" CRT monitor
> > 
> > 
> >   I have the following running at all times:
> > 
> >   20 desktops (WindowMaker, 2 banks of 10)
> >   9 rxvt terminal windows:
> >           3 local shell
> >           1 alpine
> >           1 slrn
> >           1 root shell
> >           3 ssh to remote
> >   emacs - user, 3 windows
> >   emacs - root, 1 window
> >   2 gentoo file managers
> >   oowriter - 2+ windows (until book is finished -- a few more weeks)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> >   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
> >   ===================================================================
> >   Author:
> >   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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> > 
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-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
   ===================================================================
   Author:
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 16:17:34 2009
From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:17:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
Message-ID: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908131216350.5132@doublethink>


On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

... 
>    I am considering something like this, with an added 1TB HD:
>    <http://www.sonnam.com/system.asp?prod_ID=SYS-SN-CLE-0005>


   I am also planning to buy an LCD monitor in the 22" to 24" range,
   perhaps
   <http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=022917&cid=888.MT.863>.

   What do I look for?

-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
   ===================================================================
   Author:
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 16:19:26 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:19:26 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <4A84268E.3030105-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>, <loom.20090812T221209-59@post.gmane.org> <4A83C143.10642.2171DAF@sciguy.vex.net> <4A8423D0.90301@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A84268E.3030105@moores.ca>
Message-ID: <4A843D0E.7000600@linuxcaffe.ca>

Darryl Moore wrote:
> Hmmm, that might explain why, by the age of 16, the centre for deep
> thought and moral judgement shifts from the brain to other anatomical
> regions which have also undergone recent growth spurts.

here's a good test for your development stage;
say the word "teanagers"
if you pronounce it with a <shudder> at the end,
you're becoming an oldster.
djp
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From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 16:30:46 2009
From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:30:46 -0400
Subject: Toronto Open Source Week - Oct 24-30 ?
Message-ID: <99a6c38f0908130930o72c838efq74d55df7cca217a9@mail.gmail.com>

I was looking at the FSOSS 2009 page and discovered that there's a
whole week of Open Source Goodness being planned in Toronto:

  http://opensourceweek.ca/
  October 24-30, 2009 - "Toronto Open Source Week is a celebration of
Open Source technology and community throughout the Toronto area."

Anyone on the list have more information about this celebration?  This
is the first I've heard of it.  If it was mentioned here before then I
must've missed it.

-- 
  Scott Elcomb
  http://www.psema4.com/   @psema4
--
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From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 17:11:47 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:11:47 -0400
Subject: Envoy file format (.EVY)
Message-ID: <4A844953.40501@telly.org>

This was used by Novell, WordPerfect and Corel in the 90s as an
alternative to PDFs.
Now the format appears to be dead but I'm still stuck with a bunch of
the files.

Any suggestions? I guess the best thing is to try to find a working
reader then print the result to Postsrcript or PDFs

Thanks for any pointers, especially anything that might work under Linux.

- Evan
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 17:27:39 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:27:39 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <4A843D0E.7000600-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>, <loom.20090812T221209-59@post.gmane.org> <4A83C143.10642.2171DAF@sciguy.vex.net> <4A8423D0.90301@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A84268E.3030105@moores.ca> <4A843D0E.7000600@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <4A844D0B.2000408@linuxcaffe.ca>

David J Patrick wrote:

> say the word "teanagers"
first, spell the word teenagers..
djp to djp
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 17:53:51 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:53:51 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <4A81B2A3.6080103-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>	 <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com> <4A81B2A3.6080103@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <4A84532F.3060906@dinamis.com>

On 11/08/09 02:04 PM, David J Patrick wrote:
> Tyler Aviss wrote:
>> Do you ever feel that the old grey-matter has slowed down a bit? How
>> do you keep it in shape?
> 
> Just face it Tyler, the brain is at it biggest and best at about age 9.
> It's downhill from there, compensated by experience.
> By the time we get old, the brain is usually a well-traveled jalopy.
> Exercise it, feed it omega3 a zinc, learn to oxygenate it, and it might
> last a bit longer.
> That's why young people think old people are idiots.
> That's why old people thing young people are inexperienced, but
> annoyingly bright.
> c'est la vie,

If you believe you're over the hill no matter what your age, you're
right. If you believe that you are at your best right now, you're right
again. Either way, you'll be right so pick whatever suits you. :)
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 18:55:05 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:55:05 -0700
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908131216350.5132@doublethink>
References: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908131216350.5132@doublethink>
Message-ID: <E3B5E0BB-ECFE-4B13-8A41-75D7215B57CE@gmail.com>

Beware dead pixel limits.

I bought a 22" Benq which had a dead pixel at the screen center out-of- 
the-box, and Canada Computers was unwilling to exchange it.

Different manufacturers have different policies, and a lot of  
retailers don't deal with dead pixels

(sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos)

On 13-Aug-09, at 9:17 AM, "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org>  
wrote:

>
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>
> ...
>>   I am considering something like this, with an added 1TB HD:
>>   <http://www.sonnam.com/system.asp?prod_ID=SYS-SN-CLE-0005>
>
>
>   I am also planning to buy an LCD monitor in the 22" to 24" range,
>   perhaps
>   <http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=022917&cid=888.MT.863 
> >.
>
>   What do I look for?
>
> -- 
>   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
>   ===================================================================
>   Author:
>   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
--
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 19:12:10 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:12:10 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <4A84532F.3060906-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>	 <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com> <4A81B2A3.6080103@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A84532F.3060906@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <4A84658A.7040109@linuxcaffe.ca>

CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> If you believe you're over the hill no matter what your age, you're
> right. If you believe that you are at your best right now, you're right
> again. Either way, you'll be right so pick whatever suits you. :)

Hear hear !
djp

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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 19:50:02 2009
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:50:02 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <4A84532F.3060906-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>
	 <cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com>
	 <3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A81B2A3.6080103@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A84532F.3060906@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0908131250q48183b82x5ca153b8e94f1171@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 1:53 PM, CLIFFORD
ILKAY<clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> If you believe you're over the hill no matter what your age, you're
> right. If you believe that you are at your best right now, you're right
> again. Either way, you'll be right so pick whatever suits you. :)

At about the time I finished grad school, there were two retirements...
- My dad retired from the Federal civil service
- A friend of the family retired from City of Ottawa at similar time
(a bit earlier I think)

Dad retired "somewhat tragically early" - he was pressed out by
politicking.  (At the time, it was mighty politically correct to push
out the "old white guys" that had always been running things...  Such
matters are always more complex than they appear...)

He actually got considerably *busier* after retirement than he was
before.  He definitely did not behave in "over the hill" fashion :-).
He's still "going strong" 15 years later, and has apparently
considerably beaten the averages in terms of survival rate after
retirement.

The other guy had been in "middle management" in the city bureaucracy,
and had had very little else that he was really involved with.  He
survived only about six months after retirement.  That is, six months
later, he was deceased.  I'm not sure how his wife is doing now; she
may be deceased now, but she definitely *considerably* outlived him.

The effect I'm pointing out is that there's indication that "if you
think you're done, then you're likely to be *really* done..."

Historically, I've seen two professions where members seem to have
*spectacular* sorts of survival-to-old-age rates that seem to
correspond to perceived-continuation-of-usefulness:

a) Professors...   It is not uncommon for them to retain offices @
university even after retirement, as research and writing papers have
no notable "expiry date"...

b) Preachers...  Being elderly means having more tales to remember and share...
-- 
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
Ogden Nash  - "The trouble with a kitten is that when it grows up,
it's always a cat." -
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/o/ogden_nash.html
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 20:17:00 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:17:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908131216350.5132@doublethink>
References: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908131216350.5132@doublethink>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908131605160.4017@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: Chris F.A. Johnson <cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org>

|    I am also planning to buy an LCD monitor in the 22" to 24" range,
|    perhaps
|    <http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=022917&cid=888.MT.863>.
| 
|    What do I look for?

I like 24" 1920x1200 monitors.  That's as as many pixels as you can
drive without Dual Link DVI.  Dual Link is getting more common but is
not universal.

On principle, I don't like these new even-wider-screen 24" monitors.
1920x1080 cuts down in the dimension I care about most.  On the plus
side, it is the highest standard HDTV resolution, but I don't care.

There are different kinds of LCD technology.  All the cheap ones use
TN panels.  I'm not really sure why that is inferior, but I'd figure
that out before buying one that I intended to use for hours on end.
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 20:29:46 2009
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:29:46 -0400
Subject: Toronto Open Source Week - Oct 24-30 ?
In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0908130930o72c838efq74d55df7cca217a9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <99a6c38f0908130930o72c838efq74d55df7cca217a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0908131329jc980b44x87d2a43e439cff5@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Scott Elcomb<psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I was looking at the FSOSS 2009 page and discovered that there's a
> whole week of Open Source Goodness being planned in Toronto:
>
> ?http://opensourceweek.ca/
> ?October 24-30, 2009 - "Toronto Open Source Week is a celebration of
> Open Source technology and community throughout the Toronto area."
>
> Anyone on the list have more information about this celebration? ?This
> is the first I've heard of it. ?If it was mentioned here before then I
> must've missed it.

Well, it seems to be an ad-hoc recognition of there being a number of
"open source"-related events that week.

Ontario LinuxFest is an obvious thing, as is the Seneca College FSOSS.

I don't know what the "not-for-profit open source expo" on the 26th is
supposed to be, though...
-- 
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
Charles de Gaulle  - "The better I get to know men, the more I find
myself loving dogs." -
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/charles_de_gaulle.html
--
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 21:10:28 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:10:28 -0400
Subject: Toronto Open Source Week - Oct 24-30 ?
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f0908131329jc980b44x87d2a43e439cff5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <99a6c38f0908130930o72c838efq74d55df7cca217a9@mail.gmail.com> <d6d6637f0908131329jc980b44x87d2a43e439cff5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A848144.5000609@dinamis.com>

On 13/08/09 04:29 PM, Christopher Browne wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Scott Elcomb<psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> I was looking at the FSOSS 2009 page and discovered that there's a
>> whole week of Open Source Goodness being planned in Toronto:
>>
>>  http://opensourceweek.ca/
>>  October 24-30, 2009 - "Toronto Open Source Week is a celebration of
>> Open Source technology and community throughout the Toronto area."
>>
>> Anyone on the list have more information about this celebration?  This
>> is the first I've heard of it.  If it was mentioned here before then I
>> must've missed it.
> 
> Well, it seems to be an ad-hoc recognition of there being a number of
> "open source"-related events that week.
> 
> Ontario LinuxFest is an obvious thing, as is the Seneca College FSOSS.
> 
> I don't know what the "not-for-profit open source expo" on the 26th is
> supposed to be, though...

It's supposed to be a clear signal to businesses that "you're not really
welcome here". I've noticed an unfortunate tendency amongst some (many?)
open source proponents to consider "profit" to be a dirty word.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 21:56:42 2009
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:56:42 -0400
Subject: Toronto Open Source Week - Oct 24-30 ?
In-Reply-To: <4A848144.5000609-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <99a6c38f0908130930o72c838efq74d55df7cca217a9@mail.gmail.com>
	 <d6d6637f0908131329jc980b44x87d2a43e439cff5@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A848144.5000609@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0908131456g2b0c065fl5cdf487448c7c3d8@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:10 PM, CLIFFORD
ILKAY<clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> I don't know what the "not-for-profit open source expo" on the 26th is
>> supposed to be, though...
>
> It's supposed to be a clear signal to businesses that "you're not really
> welcome here". I've noticed an unfortunate tendency amongst some (many?)
> open source proponents to consider "profit" to be a dirty word.

That seems rather remarkable.

After all, the term "open source" was created specifically and
conspicuously to draw interest from for-profit business interests that
were keen on "freeing themselves" of the ideological and
confrontational connotations of the term "free software."  (That very
wording is, itself, somewhat ideological and confrontational!)

RMS would be the prime example of the "profit is a dirty word" people,
and he specifically declines to call what he works on "open source,"
and complains that it "misses the point."
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html  Ask
him about his "open source" work and you can be sure to hear a rant
down that road...

I'd think that a "free software expo" might fit with what you say, but
generally the folks who fall into that "more socialistic than Marx"
category reject the term "open source."

In contrast, it seems rather surprising for there to be an "expo"
listed, when there is no indication as to:
 a) Where it is to be,
 b) Who is running it,
 c) Who's involved altogether.

We know that OLF is done by then, so it's not "OLF on Monday."

We also know that FSOSS begins on October 29th, so this isn't an expo
that is part of FSOSS.

It actually doesn't make terribly much sense to me, as an event, for
reasons that are only in the most peripheral ways related to the "free
software"/"open source software" divide.

 - It's suggested as a "trade show", but if the IT360 experience has
shown us anything,
   it is that trade shows are a *severely* dying thing

 - The things suggested (http://torontoopensourceweek.pbworks.com/Event-List) as
   being involved seem to be a duplication of what happens at OLF on the 24th
-- 
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
Ted Turner  - "Sports is like a war without the killing." -
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/ted_turner.html
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 22:47:48 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:47:48 -0400
Subject: Toronto Open Source Week - Oct 24-30 ?
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f0908131456g2b0c065fl5cdf487448c7c3d8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <99a6c38f0908130930o72c838efq74d55df7cca217a9@mail.gmail.com>	 <d6d6637f0908131329jc980b44x87d2a43e439cff5@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A848144.5000609@dinamis.com> <d6d6637f0908131456g2b0c065fl5cdf487448c7c3d8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A849814.9080802@dinamis.com>

On 13/08/09 05:56 PM, Christopher Browne wrote:
>  - It's suggested as a "trade show", but if the IT360 experience has
> shown us anything,
>    it is that trade shows are a *severely* dying thing

Perhaps the problem with the IT360 and Computing Canada types of trade
shows is that they try to be too many things to too many people. There
is an old marketing adage, "Hot tea sells. Iced tea sells. Lukewarm tea
doesn't." Many of those trade shows were lukewarm tea.

I still think there is much more life in trade shows, if they're
highly-focused.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
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From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 13 23:01:33 2009
From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:01:33 -0400
Subject: [OT} Rogers: Very Loud Volumes for Commercials
Message-ID: <4A849B4D.6050707@rogers.com>

I watch through a PVR and have just set up a home theater.

The receiver volume has a numerical scale. I watch talk shows (ex Daily 
Show) at 60, then a commercial comes on, and I have to drop it to 45.

It was never bad like this when I connected the PVR to the old TV via 
composites and RCA.

I called Roger's tech support and they tried to blame it on the 
broadcaster, but I pointed out the worst case was when Roger's 
substitutes commercials on US programs. They agreed to send out a techie.

Do others experience this?

Can I do anything? Receiver is an ONKYO 606, if it makes a difference.

All thoughts appreciated.

Stephen
 
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From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 03:33:34 2009
From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:33:34 -0400
Subject: [OT} Rogers: Very Loud Volumes for Commercials
In-Reply-To: <4A849B4D.6050707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A849B4D.6050707@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4A84DB0E.7080603@utoronto.ca>

On 13/08/2009 7:01 PM, Stephen wrote:
> I watch through a PVR and have just set up a home theater.
>
> The receiver volume has a numerical scale. I watch talk shows (ex Daily
> Show) at 60, then a commercial comes on, and I have to drop it to 45.
>
> It was never bad like this when I connected the PVR to the old TV via
> composites and RCA.
>
> I called Roger's tech support and they tried to blame it on the
> broadcaster, but I pointed out the worst case was when Roger's
> substitutes commercials on US programs. They agreed to send out a techie.
>
> Do others experience this?
>
> Can I do anything? Receiver is an ONKYO 606, if it makes a difference.
>
> All thoughts appreciated.

My guess, you have equipment that can produce decent quality sound? See 
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/G3.htm for more on compression and 
frequency tinkering used by advertisers.

Jamon
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From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 00:06:24 2009
From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:06:24 -0400
Subject: [OT} Rogers: Very Loud Volumes for Commercials
In-Reply-To: <4A84DB0E.7080603-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A849B4D.6050707@rogers.com> <4A84DB0E.7080603@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <4A84AA80.5070700@rogers.com>

Jamon Camisso wrote:
> My guess, you have equipment that can produce decent quality sound? 
> See http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/G3.htm for more on compression 
> and frequency tinkering used by advertisers.
>
Very decent, yes.

Thanks for the link. I see they formed a study group in 2005.

I think tasers should be tested on the CRTC members.

Stephen
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From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 00:19:24 2009
From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:19:24 -0400
Subject: [OT} Rogers: Very Loud Volumes for Commercials
In-Reply-To: <4A84DB0E.7080603-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A849B4D.6050707@rogers.com> <4A84DB0E.7080603@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <4A84AD8C.4060007@moores.ca>

I wonder if Myth could be configured to use this to identify the
commercials, then automatically delete them.

Jamon Camisso wrote:
> On 13/08/2009 7:01 PM, Stephen wrote:
>> I watch through a PVR and have just set up a home theater.
>>
>> The receiver volume has a numerical scale. I watch talk shows (ex Daily
>> Show) at 60, then a commercial comes on, and I have to drop it to 45.
>>
>> It was never bad like this when I connected the PVR to the old TV via
>> composites and RCA.
>>
>> I called Roger's tech support and they tried to blame it on the
>> broadcaster, but I pointed out the worst case was when Roger's
>> substitutes commercials on US programs. They agreed to send out a techie.
>>
>> Do others experience this?
>>
>> Can I do anything? Receiver is an ONKYO 606, if it makes a difference.
>>
>> All thoughts appreciated.
> 
> My guess, you have equipment that can produce decent quality sound? See
> http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/G3.htm for more on compression and
> frequency tinkering used by advertisers.
> 
> Jamon
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 00:26:20 2009
From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:26:20 -0400
Subject: [OT} Rogers: Very Loud Volumes for Commercials
In-Reply-To: <4A849B4D.6050707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A849B4D.6050707@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4A84AF2C.9020603@rogers.com>

I submitted this via the CRTC web site:

 Many broadcasters set the volume of their commercials significantly higher that the main broadcast.

I see you have a "Loud TV commercials and sound levels" study group but after four years they seem to still be studying.

The worst offender in my experience is the Comedy Network. Using the numerical volume scale on my amplifier I calculate the commercial volumes to be as much as 30% higher than the main program.

I have the 13 August episode of "The Daily Show" saved on my PVR as an example of how bad this is.

I complained to my cable provider, Rogers, but they said that they can't do anything because it is broadcaster that is controlling the volume.

Please awaken your study group and make this practise illegal.

Thank you
Stephen Dawson


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From matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 00:32:48 2009
From: matt-oC+CK0giAiYdmIl+iVs3AywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Matthew Middleton)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:32:48 -0400
Subject: Toronto Open Source Week - Oct 24-30 ?
In-Reply-To: <4A848144.5000609-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <99a6c38f0908130930o72c838efq74d55df7cca217a9@mail.gmail.com> <d6d6637f0908131329jc980b44x87d2a43e439cff5@mail.gmail.com> <4A848144.5000609@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <281A5253E6FF42B5B21F8EE390AE6EF9@newdesktop>

I'm wondering if they mean a "Open Source expo that targets not-for-profit
orgs"...there's a lot of charities that could benefit from a better
understanding of what's available to them in the realm of open source.

-Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of CLIFFORD
ILKAY
Sent: August 13, 2009 5:10 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Toronto Open Source Week - Oct 24-30 ?

On 13/08/09 04:29 PM, Christopher Browne wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Scott Elcomb<psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> I was looking at the FSOSS 2009 page and discovered that there's a
>> whole week of Open Source Goodness being planned in Toronto:
>>
>>  http://opensourceweek.ca/
>>  October 24-30, 2009 - "Toronto Open Source Week is a celebration of
>> Open Source technology and community throughout the Toronto area."
>>
>> Anyone on the list have more information about this celebration?  This
>> is the first I've heard of it.  If it was mentioned here before then I
>> must've missed it.
> 
> Well, it seems to be an ad-hoc recognition of there being a number of
> "open source"-related events that week.
> 
> Ontario LinuxFest is an obvious thing, as is the Seneca College FSOSS.
> 
> I don't know what the "not-for-profit open source expo" on the 26th is
> supposed to be, though...

It's supposed to be a clear signal to businesses that "you're not really
welcome here". I've noticed an unfortunate tendency amongst some (many?)
open source proponents to consider "profit" to be a dirty word.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.54/2300 - Release Date: 08/13/09
06:11:00

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From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 00:36:33 2009
From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:36:33 -0400
Subject: [OT} Rogers: Very Loud Volumes for Commercials
In-Reply-To: <4A84AD8C.4060007-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A849B4D.6050707@rogers.com> <4A84DB0E.7080603@utoronto.ca>
	 <4A84AD8C.4060007@moores.ca>
Message-ID: <f646b91f0908131736i2fa6db28l468b0301c71b67f6@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/13/09, Darryl Moore <darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I wonder if Myth could be configured to use this to identify the
> commercials, then automatically delete them.

Typically MythTV systems are configured so that they will detect
commercials via audio compression and the channel logo that appears
usually in the bottom left corner. When the compression levels go high
and the logo disspears you are typically talking a commercial. This
set-up isn't perfect I've seen comedy show parody commercials that
MythTV has mistaken for the real thing....

The above occasionsal false positive also explains why MythTV systems
typically by default don't auto delete commercials, merely notes them
and then by default skips commercials during playpack. This way for
the few times MythTV mistakes real programming for a commercial you
have the option of going back and telling MythTV to play everything...

Colin McGregor

> Jamon Camisso wrote:
>> On 13/08/2009 7:01 PM, Stephen wrote:
>>> I watch through a PVR and have just set up a home theater.
>>>
>>> The receiver volume has a numerical scale. I watch talk shows (ex Daily
>>> Show) at 60, then a commercial comes on, and I have to drop it to 45.
>>>
>>> It was never bad like this when I connected the PVR to the old TV via
>>> composites and RCA.
>>>
>>> I called Roger's tech support and they tried to blame it on the
>>> broadcaster, but I pointed out the worst case was when Roger's
>>> substitutes commercials on US programs. They agreed to send out a techie.
>>>
>>> Do others experience this?
>>>
>>> Can I do anything? Receiver is an ONKYO 606, if it makes a difference.
>>>
>>> All thoughts appreciated.
>>
>> My guess, you have equipment that can produce decent quality sound? See
>> http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/G3.htm for more on compression and
>> frequency tinkering used by advertisers.
>>
>> Jamon
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 01:37:42 2009
From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:37:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Toronto Open Source Week - Oct 24-30 ?
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f0908131329jc980b44x87d2a43e439cff5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <99a6c38f0908130930o72c838efq74d55df7cca217a9@mail.gmail.com> <d6d6637f0908131329jc980b44x87d2a43e439cff5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908132136480.6963@imac2006.local>

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, Christopher Browne wrote:
> I don't know what the "not-for-profit open source expo" on the 
> 26th is supposed to be, though...

On http://torontoopensourceweek.pbworks.com/Event-List it is 
described as: "Trade Show style event bringing together 
not-for-profit decision makers and open source experts and 
consultants"

-- 
    ____  ____  ____  ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo
   /___  /___/ /___/ /___      http://www.arifsaha.com/
  ____/ /     /   / ____/
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 02:18:39 2009
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:18:39 -0400
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908130852020.13621-sLtTAFnw5m7xXJQZHMdDwiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908130328180.5132@doublethink> <alpine.LNX.2.00.0908130852020.13621@rosette.pegasoft.ca>
Message-ID: <20090814021839.GA3759@node1.opengeometry.net>

Instead of building one, try Lenovo desktop.  You can add harddisk and
memory as needed.  For peripherals, I'd recommend

    - Razer Arctosa or Lycosa Mirror Edition keyboard -- I got the
      former at work and latter at home.  Better and cheaper than Happy
      Hacker keyboard.

    - Samsung Spinpoint F1 harddisk 1TB/32MB -- it has similiar specs as
      Seagate ES2 at Barracuda price.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 08:53:34AM -0400, Ken Burtch wrote:
> 
> Hardware is so over-powered these days it's not fully.  For a shell script 
> junky like yourself, just about any machine would do with 2 GHz, 2 GB. 
> Have you considered a low-end Lenovo laptop so you can carry your music 
> where you go?

> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> >  I am in the market for a new desktop system, but my knowledge of PC
> >  hardware is very limited. I have only bought one X86 system in my
> >  life (described below) though I had inherited a couple previously.
> >
> >  Can you make any suggestions about what to get, what to avoid,
> >  where to buy, where not to buy, etc.?
> >
> >  I am considering something like this, with an added 1TB HD:
> >  <http://www.sonnam.com/system.asp?prod_ID=SYS-SN-CLE-0005>
> >
> >  I am not a gamer; the most taxing use I have for the video card is
> >  probably playing DVDs and YouTube downloads.
> >
> >  I do care about sound quality (all my music is on my HD), but I
> >  don't care about a lot of features. (I don't even want the ability
> >  to mix sound sources; I want only my music to be heard. The
> >  computer should otherwise be silent apart from the PC speaker.)
> >
> >  Current hardware (bought March 2002, RAM and HDDs upgraded)
> >
> >  P4 1.6GHz
> >  1GB DDR RAM
> >  Nvidia Riva TNT2 32MB
> >  IDE drives:
> >    160 GB
> >    250 GB
> >    500 GB
> >  17" CRT monitor
> >
> >  I have the following running at all times:
> >
> >  20 desktops (WindowMaker, 2 banks of 10)
> >  9 rxvt terminal windows:
> >          3 local shell
> >          1 alpine
> >          1 slrn
> >          1 root shell
> >          3 ssh to remote
> >  emacs - user, 3 windows
> >  emacs - root, 1 window
> >  2 gentoo file managers
> >  oowriter - 2+ windows (until book is finished -- a few more weeks)
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From andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 00:52:09 2009
From: andrew-vUgxaBqSMS7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Heagle)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:52:09 -0400
Subject: Toronto Open Source Week - Oct 24-30 ?
In-Reply-To: <4A848144.5000609-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <99a6c38f0908130930o72c838efq74d55df7cca217a9@mail.gmail.com> <d6d6637f0908131329jc980b44x87d2a43e439cff5@mail.gmail.com> <4A848144.5000609@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <200908132052.09955.andrew@logaan.com>

On Thursday 13 August 2009 17:10:28 CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> On 13/08/09 04:29 PM, Christopher Browne wrote:
> > I don't know what the "not-for-profit open source expo" on the 26th is
> > supposed to be, though...
>
> It's supposed to be a clear signal to businesses that "you're not really
> welcome here". I've noticed an unfortunate tendency amongst some (many?)
> open source proponents to consider "profit" to be a dirty word.

Actually, this is supposed to be an expo for not-for-profit organizations to 
learn more about how open source can help them in their work and/or 
alternatives to proprietary software. 

"For profit" organizations are allowed to be there as exhibitors, so long as 
they are there to pitch open source concepts. I'm sure there will be many 
"consultants" pitching their services.

Anyhoo, you can read more about it on this thread.
http://global.proximity.on.ca/pipermail/tosw-discuss/2009-July/000012.html

Andrew
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From anton-P5WJPa9AKEc1GQ1Ptb7lUw at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 09:11:12 2009
From: anton-P5WJPa9AKEc1GQ1Ptb7lUw at public.gmane.org (Anton Verevkin)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:11:12 +0400
Subject: Envoy file format (.EVY)
Message-ID: <63252.1250241072@localhost>

> This was used by Novell, WordPerfect and Corel in the 90s as an
> alternative to PDFs.
> Any suggestions? I guess the best thing is to try to find a working
> reader then print the result to Postsrcript or PDFs

I managed to open the file with the Stand-alone viewer for 32 bit systems I found here:
http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/iseler/tools/read_envoy7.htm 
and print it to PDF.

A test file for this and many other old file formats can be taken from here:
http://www-eng-x.llnl.gov/documents/WWWtest.html

Besides, this site offers file conversion for money:
http://www.iconv.com/legacy/PDF/Corel%20Envoy.htm

And McGill University, Montreal offers to come to their office to make conversions
http://www.mcgill.ca/edrs/services/information/help-tools/howto/other_to_pdf/


Best regards,
Anton Verevkin


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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 14:17:23 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:17:23 -0700
Subject: MythTV (was Re:[OT} Rogers: Very Loud Volumes for 
	Commercials )
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908140717u53deed3dh9dc3c1d302739aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Colin McGregor<colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On 8/13/09, Darryl Moore <darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> I wonder if Myth could be configured to use this to identify the
>> commercials, then automatically delete them.
>
> Typically MythTV systems are configured so that they will detect
> commercials via audio compression and the channel logo that appears
> usually in the bottom left corner. When the compression levels go high
> and the logo disspears you are typically talking a commercial. This
> set-up isn't perfect I've seen comedy show parody commercials that
> MythTV has mistaken for the real thing....
>
> The above occasionsal false positive also explains why MythTV systems
> typically by default don't auto delete commercials, merely notes them
> and then by default skips commercials during playpack. This way for
> the few times MythTV mistakes real programming for a commercial you
> have the option of going back and telling MythTV to play everything...
>
> Colin McGregor
>
>> Jamon Camisso wrote:
>>> On 13/08/2009 7:01 PM, Stephen wrote:
>>>> I watch through a PVR and have just set up a home theater.
>>>>
>>>> The receiver volume has a numerical scale. I watch talk shows (ex Daily
>>>> Show) at 60, then a commercial comes on, and I have to drop it to 45.
>>>>
>>>> It was never bad like this when I connected the PVR to the old TV via
>>>> composites and RCA.
>>>>
>>>> I called Roger's tech support and they tried to blame it on the
>>>> broadcaster, but I pointed out the worst case was when Roger's
>>>> substitutes commercials on US programs. They agreed to send out a techie.
>>>>
>>>> Do others experience this?
>>>>
>>>> Can I do anything? Receiver is an ONKYO 606, if it makes a difference.
>>>>
>>>> All thoughts appreciated.
>>>
>>> My guess, you have equipment that can produce decent quality sound? See
>>> http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/G3.htm for more on compression and
>>> frequency tinkering used by advertisers.
>>>
>>> Jamon
>>> --
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>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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>> --
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>


Hmm, actually I've been fighting with Myth on other issues lately. My
myth box isn't so much used as a PVR as it is a rebroadcaster. There
are a few places around the house where it's not convenient to run
cable, but there are computers, so I can pull the "live" signal
through myth+wireless.

However my girlfriend's laptop has a rather crappy 802.11b card, which
gets plenty of stutters and jerks due to low bandwidth. AFAIK myth
sends everything as MPEG2, which is probably a bit much for that wifi.
Is it possible to use other encoding/decoding methods for the "live"
TV etc in myth, such as Mpeg4/DivX/theora/etc?

If not, I suppose I could just run a session with VLC on both ends if
I can find the commandline arguments to read in from the TV card.
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 16:31:54 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:31:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Toronto Open Source Week - Oct 24-30 ?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908132136480.6963-aZibgg63UJu44ywRPIzf9A@public.gmane.org>
References: <99a6c38f0908130930o72c838efq74d55df7cca217a9@mail.gmail.com> <d6d6637f0908131329jc980b44x87d2a43e439cff5@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908132136480.6963@imac2006.local>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908141229260.19396@castor.opentrend.net>

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, Christopher Browne wrote:
>> I don't know what the "not-for-profit open source expo" on the 26th is 
>> supposed to be, though...
>
> On http://torontoopensourceweek.pbworks.com/Event-List it is described as: 
> "Trade Show style event bringing together not-for-profit decision makers and 
> open source experts and consultants"

A flag goes up when I see statements like that about a conference.  A lot 
of the real experts and consultants in OSS in Toronto are right here on 
this list and we're debating what this conference is :)

Rob

-- 
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html
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From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 17:23:39 2009
From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:23:39 -0400
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908131605160.4017-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908131216350.5132@doublethink>
	<alpine.LRH.2.00.0908131605160.4017@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <20090814132339.dcc3f356.tleslie@tcn.net>

your right on about the dimension, there is little use for wide screen except for movies,
eevrything else on web is portrait,
i got a HP 30" and you just take out the 4 bolts on the back, 
rotate, and i have a 30" portrait monitor,


on a different note,
watch out fir burn in, i thought
burn in was virtually impossible on LCD, and from what i read,
it sort of is,
but on the HP (googling, i see it as a know issue),
leave your computer screen on  (with image) for >12 hours, 
and it will leave a bit of residue there,
do that for days (like i did), and now i have what looks like a "stain"
where i had my background image :(

i am thinking of getting a another hp 30" and having a nvidia twin view set up (to both).
i also find having more of a square set up (or portait), give best view of all the data,
with respect to not having to do a lot of head movement.

-tl

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:17:00 -0400 (EDT)
"D. Hugh Redelmeier" <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> | From: Chris F.A. Johnson <cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org>
> 
> |    I am also planning to buy an LCD monitor in the 22" to 24" range,
> |    perhaps
> |    <http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=022917&cid=888.MT.863>.
> | 
> |    What do I look for?
> 
> I like 24" 1920x1200 monitors.  That's as as many pixels as you can
> drive without Dual Link DVI.  Dual Link is getting more common but is
> not universal.
> 
> On principle, I don't like these new even-wider-screen 24" monitors.
> 1920x1080 cuts down in the dimension I care about most.  On the plus
> side, it is the highest standard HDTV resolution, but I don't care.
> 
> There are different kinds of LCD technology.  All the cheap ones use
> TN panels.  I'm not really sure why that is inferior, but I'd figure
> that out before buying one that I intended to use for hours on end.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> 


-- 
ted leslie <tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org>
--
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From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 17:32:21 2009
From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:32:21 -0400
Subject: OT: Today I Turn 33...!
In-Reply-To: <loom.20090812T221209-59-eS7Uydv5nfjZ+VzJOa5vwg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908110806t3e056d8iacbef8616cb4ea76@mail.gmail.com>
	<cc63eb120908110823q5385eacfs784d43e9f0fce4ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<3a97ef0908111058v65b4f42bh23931bb47e8fcf3a@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A81B2A3.6080103@linuxcaffe.ca>
	<loom.20090812T221209-59@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20090814133221.c3de6e36.tleslie@tcn.net>

i use F1 as a gauge, when your paid as much as 50M a year to do something well,
and that well involves thinking across alot of levels,
they peak at around 41'ish,
assuming they didn't take the physical pounding.
so unless someone proves different, I
I am going to assume when it comes to computer programming,
50 (give or take) is probably the absolute top of the game.
then when your 80 helpfully you'll still be more productive then
when you were 20.
i'll post here in 40yrs and tell you how my theory works :)

-tl


On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:14:47 +0000 (UTC)
Peter <plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> David J Patrick <djp at ...> writes:
> > Just face it Tyler, the brain is at it biggest and best at about age 9.
> > It's downhill from there, compensated by experience.
> 
> Some people who study this kind of thing for a living, in educational circles,
> strongly believe that the brain peaks at about 21 to 24 years of age, and then
> drops by about 10% for every 10 years over that. I tend to agree, but the decay
> applies only to things one does not refresh or use. Those one does use and
> refresh, get better indefinitely or until Alzheimer offsets all the efforts :)
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> 


-- 
ted leslie <tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org>
--
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From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 18:50:14 2009
From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:50:14 -0400
Subject: Invitation: OpenStreetMap 5th Birthday Party
Message-ID: <a768be480908141150s62fdc072u210a81b1325c0b73@mail.gmail.com>

The OpenStreetMap  project will celebrate it's fifth birthday, next
Saturday.  Join us for some cake, and OSM related fun, in Toronto on
Sat. 22 Aug. 2009.

OSM is mature for a five year-old, so no gifts! ;-)

RSVP.

http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Toronto/calendar/11112919/
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 18:54:44 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:54:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: MythTV (was Re:[OT} Rogers: Very Loud Volumes for 
 Commercials )
In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0908140717u53deed3dh9dc3c1d302739aa-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3a97ef0908140717u53deed3dh9dc3c1d302739aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908141453230.19396@castor.opentrend.net>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009, Tyler Aviss wrote:

> However my girlfriend's laptop has a rather crappy 802.11b card, which

802.11_b_?  I recommend buying her a more modern card for a present, and 
solving the problem that way :)

Cheers,

Rob

-- 
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html
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From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 19:22:10 2009
From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:22:10 -0400
Subject: Toronto Open Source Week - Oct 24-30 ?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908141229260.19396-VmJVFCIrpYC0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <99a6c38f0908130930o72c838efq74d55df7cca217a9@mail.gmail.com>
	 <d6d6637f0908131329jc980b44x87d2a43e439cff5@mail.gmail.com>
	 <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908132136480.6963@imac2006.local>
	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908141229260.19396@castor.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <a768be480908141222t1ad7a8e4gb1b36e01f6dcf064@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Robert
Brockway<robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, Christopher Browne wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't know what the "not-for-profit open source expo" on the 26th is
>>> supposed to be, though...
>>
>> On http://torontoopensourceweek.pbworks.com/Event-List it is described as:
>> "Trade Show style event bringing together not-for-profit decision makers and
>> open source experts and consultants"
>
> A flag goes up when I see statements like that about a conference. ?A lot of
> the real experts and consultants in OSS in Toronto are right here on this
> list and we're debating what this conference is :)

I think the non-profit-expo organizers can do a better job of
describing their intentions than I can.  Hopefully they'll have an
announcement soon.  It is my understanding that they want to have
non-profits see what F/LOSS can do for them.  The folks behind that
expo are names I recognize from this list and other F/LOSS
communities.

But how about us?  What other events would we all like to see as part
of Toronto Open Source Week?  Anybody care to set up something?  How
about a BarCamp-like event for packagers?
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 17:36:20 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:36:20 -0400
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908131216350.5132@doublethink>
References: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908131216350.5132@doublethink>
Message-ID: <20090814173620.GH3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:17:34PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>    I am also planning to buy an LCD monitor in the 22" to 24" range,
>    perhaps
>    <http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=022917&cid=888.MT.863>.
> 
>    What do I look for?

Depends what you care about.

I personally have a Dell 2407WFP and my wife now has a Dell 2408WFP.
Both bought when they went on sale.  I paid $430 for the 2408WFP earlier
this year.  They are PVA panels which are probably the best LCD screens
you can get (IPS is very nice, but seems to only exist in the 30" models).
Most LCDs use TN screens which have much worse viewing angles, often
less even colour, often are 6bit rather than 8bit per channel and hence
dither or fluctuate pixels to emulate full 24bit RGB support.

Personally I have no problem paying $430 for a 24" screen that I expect
to use with multiple computers over the next 10 years.  Given 10 years
ago a 20" CRT would set you back $3000, what is $430 for a 24" really?

I am one of those people that research things to death, then buy the
best and use it forever.  Buying cheap has always disappointed me in the
past and resulting in having to just go buy something else to replace
it later.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 17:32:12 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:32:12 -0400
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
In-Reply-To: <299960.73234.qm-/T9GddBZ1535nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org>
References: <299960.73234.qm@web59504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090814173212.GG3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 06:20:16AM -0700, Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote:
> The link you supplied looks like a good system, but if you shop around you may get a better price.

It has no specs.  Hence it must be a piece of shit.  If you buy
electronics by comparing prices, you get what you deserve.

> Everyone has there favourites, myself its: AMD64 3500, 2G RAM, 250G HD, onboard:lan, navidi video, sound, etc. (quality speekers not included). This system should be cheaper and due very well for what you described. Just the PC, it cost me $200 a little while back.
> 
> This guy has been very good to me in the past. http://routervillage.com/ He is not much into website, but equipment, he is very good with. Good pricing for referburbished and new.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 17:41:21 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:41:21 -0400
Subject: [OT} Rogers: Very Loud Volumes for Commercials
In-Reply-To: <4A84AD8C.4060007-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A849B4D.6050707@rogers.com> <4A84DB0E.7080603@utoronto.ca> <4A84AD8C.4060007@moores.ca>
Message-ID: <20090814174121.GI3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 08:19:24PM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote:
> I wonder if Myth could be configured to use this to identify the
> commercials, then automatically delete them.

Currently it does it entirely based on the video and not at all based
on audio.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 17:29:37 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:29:37 -0400
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908130328180.5132@doublethink>
References: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908130328180.5132@doublethink>
Message-ID: <20090814172937.GF3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 03:57:52AM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>    I am in the market for a new desktop system, but my knowledge of PC
>    hardware is very limited. I have only bought one X86 system in my
>    life (described below) though I had inherited a couple previously.
> 
>    Can you make any suggestions about what to get, what to avoid,
>    where to buy, where not to buy, etc.?
> 
>    I am considering something like this, with an added 1TB HD:
>    <http://www.sonnam.com/system.asp?prod_ID=SYS-SN-CLE-0005>

All $399 computers are made by cutting every single corner you can
to reduce price, while picking the cheapest thing that has impressive
sounding specs.

An Athlon 64 X2 5200+ was a nice CPU when it came out 3 years ago.  It has
since been replaced in AMD's lineup by the Phenom and then the Phenom II.

If they won't tell in the specs what the parts in the machine are (like
motherboard model, power supply model, etc) then they are certain to
all be complete crap.  The RAM will be the cheapest and slowest you
can get.  The power supply with be a few with $20 case type, which will
just make the system unstable and eventually kill the hardware.

>    I am not a gamer; the most taxing use I have for the video card is
>    probably playing DVDs and YouTube downloads.

Well for DVD's the nvidia drivers support XvMC for offloading the video
decoding largely to the video card.  Always nice to have and makes video
cale smoothly without a lot of cpu load.  Not sure if the intel chips
have that support in linux.

>    I do care about sound quality (all my music is on my HD), but I
>    don't care about a lot of features. (I don't even want the ability
>    to mix sound sources; I want only my music to be heard. The
>    computer should otherwise be silent apart from the PC speaker.)

The onboard audio on good motherboards tends to sound just fine these
days (unlike years ago when it was noisy and complete crap).  Very few
add in audio cards are made anymore, and not many are sold.  The few
that are sold tend to be rather fancy expensive things.  So it depends
just how much you care about sound quality.  If you have computer
speakers, or you think MP3 is good enough to store audio, then onboard
sound on a good motherboard will be fine.  If you insist on FLAC or RAW
audio files (so no compression) and have $500 speakers, then you might
care enough to get one of the nice cards like the Asus Xonar D2X for $190.

>    Current hardware (bought March 2002, RAM and HDDs upgraded)
> 
>    P4 1.6GHz
>    1GB DDR RAM
>    Nvidia Riva TNT2 32MB
>    IDE drives:
>      160 GB
>      250 GB
>      500 GB
>    17" CRT monitor
> 
>    I have the following running at all times:
> 
>    20 desktops (WindowMaker, 2 banks of 10)
>    9 rxvt terminal windows:
>            3 local shell
>            1 alpine
>            1 slrn
>            1 root shell
>            3 ssh to remote
>    emacs - user, 3 windows
>    emacs - root, 1 window
>    2 gentoo file managers
>    oowriter - 2+ windows (until book is finished -- a few more weeks)

Well personally I have a few rules for what I will buy:

No ATI chipsets or video.  Their drivers have a long history of sucking
very badly.

No onboard video.  It is just crap, and tends to slow down the whole
system and eat system ram (which isn't even good for video cards in the
first place).  If you really don't have any need for performance, then
onboard intel video or nvidia is acceptable.  ATI/AMD chipset and video
would not be because of the above.

No seagate drives.  Way too many firmware and compatibility issues.

Only quality components from good manufacturers.  The system is only as
reliable as the weakest component in the system.  This is especially true
of the power supply.  There are companies out there (like genesis) who
label power supplies 500W when in fact none of the components inside
can provide more than 250W under ideal conditions (which you never
get either).  They are simply lying.

So things I would buy:
Asus motherboards.  I have used nothing else for 15 years now, and
I don't intend to change that.  I have heard good things about EVGA
(although they only make nvidia chipset boards and now intel x58 and tend
to be very high end as a result, so probably not relevant in this case).
I have had bad experiences with other peoples systems using intel boards,
gigabyte boards, as well as horrible experiences with ecs and pc chips
(now the same company conviniently).

PC Power & Cooling power supplies.  I don't think there is a better
maker out there, and they are much cheaper than they used to be.

nvidia based video cards.  EVGA makes nice cards.  BFG seems good too.
PNY makes good cards.  XFX makes nice cards.  A company with a good
warranty is generally a good sign.

Western Digital harddisks.  I have had very few failures and no
compatibility issues, and they are very quiet and pretty fast.  I like
quiet.

Places to buy that I use are: Canada Computers for local stuff.  NCIX and
bestdirect.ca for cheap mail order stuff (often they have free delivery
if you spend over $300 or $500 depending on current promotions).

If I was to build a high quality but fairly low end PC I would probably
do something like:

- Intel E8400 (cheapest CPU with VT support, and I think hardware
  virtualization support is going to be essential in the future.
  I certainly use it a lot.) $185.  If hardware virtualization really has
  no interest, an E7400 is almost the same speed and $135.
  For a very cheap but still decent for video option, you could get an
  onboard nvidia and replace the motherboard and video card with an Asus
  P5N7A for $130.  This is mATX so a smaller case is an option in that case.
- Asus P5Q (intel P45, realtek gigabit ethernet, via 8 channel audio codec,
  firewire) $130.
- Mushkin EM2-6400 2x2GB ram $63.
- Western Digital WD1001FALS 1TB harddisk $101 (I would get two and
  run raid1.  I always use raid1 or better).  500GB is $72 each, 640GB is
  $81 each.  If speed isn't important, you can get WD10EAVS 1TB for $82.
- LG SATA dvd writer for $30ish tends to work well.  I used to get
  plextor, but I don't burn as many disks (given external USB drives these
  days), and plextor isn't what it used to be.
- GeForce GTS 250 video card for $145 if you want something that can do
  3D, or otherwise just for nice video playback support a 9500GT for
  $58 would do.
- PC Power & Cooling Silencer 420W power supply for $50.  A 500W for
  $80 if using the GTS 250 video card might be better.
- Some case you like.  ATX if for a proper system.  Could be mATX if
  you go with the onboard video option although often mATX cases cost
  more for some reason.  Personally I really like silverstone cases
  because they are so well made and solid (which helps keep the noise
  inside the case).  The cheapest machine I have made with a silverstone
  case was $700 last year which was a budget game machine with a Core 2
  Duo E6400, an 8600GT video card and 500GB WD single HD with an Asus
  P5B motherboard.  It turned out to be a decent game machine as long
  as you didn't expect super high resolution.  The case was a TJ04 which
  took up a bit more than $100 of the system budget.  Right now I use a
  TJ04 for my own machine, my sister's machine, my friend's game machine,
  my wife's machine (with a small dremel job to fit in the GTX275 video
  card), as well as a friend from university that got it for 10 machines
  for a research lab at university of alberta on my recomendation (where
  they love the fact the office is now so much less noisy than before
  they got the new computers).  Ehm, oops that got a bit off track there.
  Antec makes nice cases too, although I personally find them cheap and
  flimsy looking compared to the silverstones.  Cheap cases will ratle
  and amplify all vibrations in the machine and be very noisy.

So for example here is what bestdirect.ca wants for the onboard video
option:

LG GH22NS50 Black 22X SATA DVD Writer OEM $29.70

Mushkin EM PC2-6400 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-800 CL5-5-5-18 240PIN DIMM Dual
Channel Memory Kit $59.71

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Dual Core Processor LGA775 3.0GHZ Wolfdale 1333FSB
6MB Retail $184.79

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 420W ATX 12V V2.2 20/24PIN 80PLUS Power
Supply $50.79

2 x Western Digital WD1001FALS Caviar Black 1TB SATA2 7200RPM 4.2MS 32MB
3.5IN Dual Proc Hard Drive OEM $197.46

ASUS P5N7A-VM mATX LGA775 nForce 730I/GF9300 DDR2 PCI-E16 PCI-E1 2PCI
SATA HDMI DVI VGA Motherboard $127.60

Silverstone Temjin TJ04B Black ATX Case 4X5.25 2X3.5 4X3.5INT No PS
$109.86

Total: 759.91 + GST.  Free shipping, and since they are in BC, they
don't charge PST to other provinces.  Assembly required.  OS your own
problem.  So a bit less than twice the one you found, but using
exclusively high end components, 3 times the disk space (with raid1),
twice the ram (and faster ram for sure), nvidia (rather than ati)
chipset and video, modern technology (like intel VT support and such),
much quiter, reliable power supply and a none 'plastic and tin' case,
DVI and HDMI support, optical digital audio out, ram expandable to 16GB
if ever needed, etc.  I would call that getting much more than than
twice your moneys worth for the doubling of price.

I didn't include mouse/keyboard since those tend to be personal preference
and you might already have some you like.  Altec Lancing speakers these
days are junk (and that is what the other machine included).  I recently
bought some Boston Acustic computer speakers on sale from tigerdirect.ca
for $35 and they sound quite good, but they aren't able to handle super
high volumes or anything, not that I need that.  They are the mm220
model in black.

I must admit the atom based boxes are pretty cute but would be no faster
than your P4 already is I suspect, at least not very much:
http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=025045&cid=170.45
Not sure how linux support is for the ion so far.

And now I will stop rambling on (for a bit at least).

-- 
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From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 20:51:14 2009
From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:51:14 -0400
Subject: [OT} Rogers: Very Loud Volumes for Commercials
In-Reply-To: <20090814174121.GI3444-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A849B4D.6050707@rogers.com> <4A84DB0E.7080603@utoronto.ca> <4A84AD8C.4060007@moores.ca> <20090814174121.GI3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4A85CE42.9070706@moores.ca>



Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 08:19:24PM -0400, Darryl Moore wrote:
>> I wonder if Myth could be configured to use this to identify the
>> commercials, then automatically delete them.
> 
> Currently it does it entirely based on the video and not at all based
> on audio.
> 

I did hear about a Japanese PVR a long time ago the worked by looking at
the audio tracks. As I recall, they typically always had two audio
tracks, one in japanese and one in english for most shows. Except that
the commercials were always in japanese, even on the english audio
track. Therefore this device simply compared these two tracks if they
were the same then delete, if not then keep. Again from my fading
recollection, it apparently worked so well that the broadcasters
complained, and it may have been pulled from the market as a result. I'm
sure this was at least 10 years ago.
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 21:19:18 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:19:18 -0400
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
In-Reply-To: <20090814132339.dcc3f356.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908131216350.5132@doublethink> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908131605160.4017@redclaw.mimosa.com> <20090814132339.dcc3f356.tleslie@tcn.net>
Message-ID: <20090814211918.GK3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 01:23:39PM -0400, ted leslie wrote:
> your right on about the dimension, there is little use for wide screen except for movies,
> eevrything else on web is portrait,
> i got a HP 30" and you just take out the 4 bolts on the back, 
> rotate, and i have a 30" portrait monitor,
> 
> on a different note,
> watch out fir burn in, i thought
> burn in was virtually impossible on LCD, and from what i read,
> it sort of is,
> but on the HP (googling, i see it as a know issue),
> leave your computer screen on  (with image) for >12 hours, 
> and it will leave a bit of residue there,
> do that for days (like i did), and now i have what looks like a "stain"
> where i had my background image :(
> 
> i am thinking of getting a another hp 30" and having a nvidia twin view set up (to both).
> i also find having more of a square set up (or portait), give best view of all the data,
> with respect to not having to do a lot of head movement.

I have never heard of any burnin happening on an LCD.  Not really sure
how it could happen either.  Plasma sure, and CRT certainly, but LCD?

A quick google search does mention image persistence issues with LCD
screens although they are apparently not a big deal in general assuming
you turn off your screen when you leave or have your screen saver do
something.

-- 
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 21:21:25 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:21:25 -0400
Subject: MythTV (was Re:[OT} Rogers: Very Loud Volumes for
	Commercials )
In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0908140717u53deed3dh9dc3c1d302739aa-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3a97ef0908140717u53deed3dh9dc3c1d302739aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090814212125.GL3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 07:17:23AM -0700, Tyler Aviss wrote:
> Hmm, actually I've been fighting with Myth on other issues lately. My
> myth box isn't so much used as a PVR as it is a rebroadcaster. There
> are a few places around the house where it's not convenient to run
> cable, but there are computers, so I can pull the "live" signal
> through myth+wireless.
> 
> However my girlfriend's laptop has a rather crappy 802.11b card, which
> gets plenty of stutters and jerks due to low bandwidth. AFAIK myth
> sends everything as MPEG2, which is probably a bit much for that wifi.
> Is it possible to use other encoding/decoding methods for the "live"
> TV etc in myth, such as Mpeg4/DivX/theora/etc?

Well it can transcode after the show is recorded.

I know my tuners (a dual tuner PVR500) does mpeg2 in hardware.  I believe
that if your tuner does no compression then compression is done in
software and I suspect you could pick something other than mpeg2 then,
although you would need massive amounts of cpu to do mpeg54 on the fly.

Perhaps you could get a better wifi device for the laptop.

> If not, I suppose I could just run a session with VLC on both ends if
> I can find the commandline arguments to read in from the TV card.

-- 
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From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 21:39:04 2009
From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:39:04 -0400
Subject: wifi 450-500 feet, almost line of sight, anyone done this?
Message-ID: <20090814173904.a78d756e.tleslie@tcn.net>

i have a need to use wifi 450-500 feet away from the base station,
and the point 500' away is almost line of site, just a few bushes in between.
i googled and saw some units claiming as much as 600'
but others , in practice, not getting that much.
Anyone done 500' confirmed? doesn't matter if its 'g' or 'n' or whatever,
i just need basic solid connection, not blazing speed.
as a last resort i know i can get a repeater and put it in the middle,
but thats messy (i.e. leaving a repeater, hooked to battery, outside).
i also saw a "dish" wifi, that is supposed to double range,
but thats sounds fishy, 
i have often wondered about these range boosters,
given, you have to get the signal back to the unit from the pc,
so I find these booster hard to believe.

-- 
ted leslie <tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org>
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From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 21:51:01 2009
From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:51:01 -0400
Subject: wifi 450-500 feet, almost line of sight, anyone done 
	this?
In-Reply-To: <20090814173904.a78d756e.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090814173904.a78d756e.tleslie@tcn.net>
Message-ID: <f646b91f0908141451y45a95e79s879e34c75a66f8e9@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/14/09, ted leslie <tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> i have a need to use wifi 450-500 feet away from the base station,
> and the point 500' away is almost line of site, just a few bushes in
> between.
> i googled and saw some units claiming as much as 600'
> but others , in practice, not getting that much.
> Anyone done 500' confirmed? doesn't matter if its 'g' or 'n' or whatever,
> i just need basic solid connection, not blazing speed.
> as a last resort i know i can get a repeater and put it in the middle,
> but thats messy (i.e. leaving a repeater, hooked to battery, outside).
> i also saw a "dish" wifi, that is supposed to double range,
> but thats sounds fishy,
> i have often wondered about these range boosters,
> given, you have to get the signal back to the unit from the pc,
> so I find these booster hard to believe.
>
> --
> ted leslie <tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org>

Well, people have successfully done unamplified 802.11b WiFi over a
distance of 125 miles:

http://www.unwiredadventures.com/unwire/2005/12/defcon_wifi_sho.html

Okay, so this involved a barren area of the Nevada desert, a 12 foot
and a 10 foot antenna... So, 600 feet can clearly be done, but...

So, bottom line, if you pay attention to antennas you can get 600'
easy, but you will need directional antennas properly pointed...

Colin.
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From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 09:53:27 2009
From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 05:53:27 -0400
Subject: wifi 450-500 feet, almost line of sight, anyone done
 this?
In-Reply-To: <20090814173904.a78d756e.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090814173904.a78d756e.tleslie@tcn.net>
Message-ID: <4A868597.70409@utoronto.ca>

On 14/08/2009 5:39 PM, ted leslie wrote:
> i have a need to use wifi 450-500 feet away from the base station,
> and the point 500' away is almost line of site, just a few bushes in between.
> i googled and saw some units claiming as much as 600'
> but others , in practice, not getting that much.
> Anyone done 500' confirmed? doesn't matter if its 'g' or 'n' or whatever,
> i just need basic solid connection, not blazing speed.
> as a last resort i know i can get a repeater and put it in the middle,
> but thats messy (i.e. leaving a repeater, hooked to battery, outside).
> i also saw a "dish" wifi, that is supposed to double range,
> but thats sounds fishy,
> i have often wondered about these range boosters,
> given, you have to get the signal back to the unit from the pc,
> so I find these booster hard to believe.

Don't write off the colander or cantenna solutions just yet:
http://www.usbwifi.orconhosting.net.nz/
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From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 22:19:24 2009
From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:19:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hardware recommendations, please
In-Reply-To: <20090814173212.GG3444-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <299960.73234.qm@web59504.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <20090814173212.GG3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908141816440.5132@doublethink>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 06:20:16AM -0700, Abidel Bassie-Cripps wrote:
> > The link you supplied looks like a good system, but if you shop around you may get a better price.
> 
> It has no specs.  Hence it must be a piece of shit.  If you buy
> electronics by comparing prices, you get what you deserve.

   The last time I bought by comparing prices, the system served me
   well, with only a couple of minor problems, for more than 7 years
   and continues to do so.

 
> > Everyone has there favourites, myself its: AMD64 3500, 2G RAM, 250G HD, onboard:lan, navidi video, sound, etc. (quality speekers not included). This system should be cheaper and due very well for what you described. Just the PC, it cost me $200 a little while back.
> > 
> > This guy has been very good to me in the past. http://routervillage.com/ He is not much into website, but equipment, he is very good with. Good pricing for referburbished and new.
> 
> 

-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
   ===================================================================
   Author:
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 14 23:01:51 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:01:51 -0700
Subject: MythTV (was Re:[OT} Rogers: Very Loud Volumes for Commercials )
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908141453230.19396-VmJVFCIrpYC0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3a97ef0908140717u53deed3dh9dc3c1d302739aa@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908141453230.19396@castor.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <FEEB99AC-E0C0-4210-8176-D9C10A30FA40@gmail.com>

It's a laptop. USB cards may work but the antenna usually isn't quite  
as good (plus they stick out rather annoyingly)

I'm tempted to get a new minipci card but some laptops lock out non- 
approved cards...

(sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos)

On 14-Aug-09, at 11:54 AM, Robert Brockway <robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org>  
wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009, Tyler Aviss wrote:
>
>> However my girlfriend's laptop has a rather crappy 802.11b card,  
>> which
>
> 802.11_b_?  I recommend buying her a more modern card for a present,  
> and solving the problem that way :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rob
>
> -- 
> I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
> Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/ 
> index.html
> --
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 01:59:02 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:59:02 -0400
Subject: wifi 450-500 feet, almost line of sight, anyone done
 this?
In-Reply-To: <20090814173904.a78d756e.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090814173904.a78d756e.tleslie@tcn.net>
Message-ID: <4A861666.2040809@linuxcaffe.ca>

ted leslie wrote:
> i have a need to use wifi 450-500 feet away from the base station,
> and the point 500' away is almost line of site, just a few bushes in between.

> i also saw a "dish" wifi, that is supposed to double range,
> but thats sounds fishy, 
not at all. directional reflectors (ideally parabolic) are sound 
application, not goofy at all.
> i have often wondered about these range boosters,
> given, you have to get the signal back to the unit from the pc,
> so I find these booster hard to believe.
The parabolic focuses the send AND recieve signals, so it's effect 
should be balanced. Just find yourself a pair of olde satellite dishes 
and either extend the antennas of your routers, or better yet, use two 
usb WiFi sticks, weatherproofed and mounted at the focal point of the 
dishes. Mount them as High as you dare. Now point the dishes at each other.
In order to optimize the aim of the dishes, you'll want the best signal 
analysis software you can find.
good luck,
djp

ps. as jamon said; don't write off the pringles can approach.
> 

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From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 02:40:26 2009
From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:40:26 -0400
Subject: wifi 450-500 feet, almost line of sight, anyone done
 this?
In-Reply-To: <4A861666.2040809-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090814173904.a78d756e.tleslie@tcn.net>
	<4A861666.2040809@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <20090814224026.c102eb45.tleslie@tcn.net>

I need to clarify,
only one end is under my control,
the other end is just a portable with wifi, and if its not good wifi (built in),
then a pcmcia or usb wifi stick.

i bought a panasonic tough book (sand/splash resistant, and bright outdoor screen),
and myself and a bunch of the home owners on my street
own a beach lot on Georgian Bay, 
infront and diagonal from my house,
so its about 450'-500' away,
I simply want to wifi from there (back to my house),
my 3 year old linksys wifi and asus Eee
come up easily 150' short, probably closer to 250',
but then I didnt put the linksys on my roof.

just hoping there was something good, easy, powerful,
that would go 600' (out of the box),
so i don't have to fuss much (e.g. buy, return, try another, repeat ...)

i can have directional at the house, pointed right at where i would be
(on the beach), save for some vegetation in the way,
(how much would 20 feet thick of bushes affect wifi? i hope little),
but at the beach , it will just be a PC, oriented in any random way.




-tl

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:59:02 -0400
David J Patrick <djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> ted leslie wrote:
> > i have a need to use wifi 450-500 feet away from the base station,
> > and the point 500' away is almost line of site, just a few bushes in between.
> 
> > i also saw a "dish" wifi, that is supposed to double range,
> > but thats sounds fishy, 
> not at all. directional reflectors (ideally parabolic) are sound 
> application, not goofy at all.
> > i have often wondered about these range boosters,
> > given, you have to get the signal back to the unit from the pc,
> > so I find these booster hard to believe.
> The parabolic focuses the send AND recieve signals, so it's effect 
> should be balanced. Just find yourself a pair of olde satellite dishes 
> and either extend the antennas of your routers, or better yet, use two 
> usb WiFi sticks, weatherproofed and mounted at the focal point of the 
> dishes. Mount them as High as you dare. Now point the dishes at each other.
> In order to optimize the aim of the dishes, you'll want the best signal 
> analysis software you can find.
> good luck,
> djp
> 
> ps. as jamon said; don't write off the pringles can approach.
> > 
> 
> --
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> 


-- 
ted leslie <tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org>
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 03:57:33 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:57:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: FC-11 M2N-MX acpi (fwd)
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908142356420.4017@redclaw.mimosa.com>

a reason to not like ASUS motherboards?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:50:27 -0400
From: Tony Nelson <tonynelson-hzk1jUy22cx2Hkfh2fy/LAC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org>
Reply-To: "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora."
    <fedora-list-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
To: fedora-list-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: FC-11 M2N-MX acpi

On 09-08-12 05:00:31, Michael D. Setzer II wrote:
> Don't know if it relates to you motherboard, but I read something and
> added this to my kernel line. acpi_enforce_resources=lax

Supposedly this only affects ASUS motherboards, and then only 
lm_sensors.  Currently, its only function is to prevent lm_sensors from 
working on ASUS motherboards.  Someday it may do more.


> That line had to do with ASUS having added something to there
> hardware, but it  isn't openly documented.

No, even though ASUS does not document their hardware, it isn't for 
anything they added.  It is a half-baked attempt to require that only 
one driver use a piece of hardware.  Currently it is only enabled for 
ASUS motherboards, and is only used by lm_sensors.  See, for example, 
this thread on LKML:

http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/1/25/105

-- 
____________________________________________________________________
TonyN.:'                       <mailto:tonynelson-hzk1jUy22cx2Hkfh2fy/LAC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org>
      '                              <http://www.georgeanelson.com/>

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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 04:18:15 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:18:15 -0400
Subject: wifi 450-500 feet, almost line of sight, anyone done
 this?
In-Reply-To: <20090814224026.c102eb45.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090814173904.a78d756e.tleslie@tcn.net>	<4A861666.2040809@linuxcaffe.ca> <20090814224026.c102eb45.tleslie@tcn.net>
Message-ID: <4A863707.6020705@linuxcaffe.ca>

ted leslie wrote:
> 
> i can have directional at the house, pointed right at where i would be
> (on the beach), save for some vegetation in the way,
> (how much would 20 feet thick of bushes affect wifi? i hope little),
from hardly any, to a surprising lot, depends how wet they are.

> but at the beach , it will just be a PC, oriented in any random way.
then a "cantenna" on a lightweight tripod for the beach, and a disused 
TV dish at the house ? For the cantenna, the USB stick style is ideal, 
as running longer antenna always loses signal, but running a reasonable 
USB extension is OK.
djp
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From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 10:51:00 2009
From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 06:51:00 -0400
Subject: wifi 450-500 feet, almost line of sight, anyone done this?
In-Reply-To: <20090814224026.c102eb45.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org>; from tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org on Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 22:40:26 -0400
References: <20090814173904.a78d756e.tleslie@tcn.net> <4A861666.2040809@linuxcaffe.ca> <20090814224026.c102eb45.tleslie@tcn.net>
Message-ID: <20090815105100.GD1937@localhost>

On Fri Aug 14,2009 10:40:26 PM ted leslie wrote:
> i can have directional at the house, pointed right at where i would 
> be (on the beach), save for some vegetation in the way, (how much 
> would 20 feet thick of bushes affect wifi? i hope little), but at 
> the beach , it will just be a PC, oriented in any random way.

Even a single directional antenna only at the house end may be good 
enough. It will increase the strength of the signal that gets to the 
beach and improve the reception of signals coming from the beach.

Trying a home built or inexpensive commercial directional antenna, at 
the house end only, may be worth a shot. If the one you try 
noticeably increases the distance but doesn't quite get you there, at 
least it indicates that a better one might do the trick.


-- 
** Scott Allen   scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org **
**     Toronto, Ontario, Canada     **
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From anton-P5WJPa9AKEc1GQ1Ptb7lUw at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 13:18:32 2009
From: anton-P5WJPa9AKEc1GQ1Ptb7lUw at public.gmane.org (Anton Verevkin)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:18:32 +0400
Subject: wifi 450-500 feet, almost line of sight, anyone donethis?
Message-ID: <2479.1250342312@localhost>

On Fri 14/08/09 23:40 , ted leslie <tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I simply want to wifi from there (back to my house),
> my 3 year old linksys wifi and asus Eee
> come up easily 150' short, probably closer to 250',
> but then I didnt put the linksys on my roof.
> just hoping there was something good, easy, powerful,
> that would go 600' (out of the box),

Maybe it's also worth moving your linksys to the beach with a directional antenna 
and connecting another directional antenna to your pc at home. Thus you stay mobile 
at the beach (even if the notebook is not in the ray - it is close to the transmitter anyway) and
have a good long link.

P.S. Anyways, it's the radio - noone can guarantee anything before you try.

Best regards, 
Anton Verevkin 
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From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 17:54:09 2009
From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:54:09 -0400
Subject: OT: Old Television Books
Message-ID: <4A86F641.5040800@utoronto.ca>

I don't believe there's any use for old books on televsion theory. The
CRT is dead, right?

Ivan.
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 18:36:09 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:36:09 -0400
Subject: OT: Old Television Books
In-Reply-To: <4A86F641.5040800-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A86F641.5040800@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <4A870019.2030502@dinamis.com>

On 15/08/09 01:54 PM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote:
> I don't believe there's any use for old books on televsion theory. The
> CRT is dead, right?

Put them up on Craigslist. Someone might take them.

I also have a major purge of books and "stuff" coming soon. I have Radio
Electronics magazines dating back to the early '60s, some of which are
starting to crumble as the paper deteriorates. I'll probably hang on to
them if for nothing else than nostalgic reasons but it's hard to see how
they're useful any more. I also have some Elektor magazines from the
'70s from the days that I started tinkering with electronics. I'll hang
onto them too.

What I have no use for are the tons of Windows NT and Netware books that
I have. I'll send a link to a full list when I have it assembled.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 19:14:08 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:14:08 -0400
Subject: OT: Old Television Books
In-Reply-To: <4A86F641.5040800-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A86F641.5040800@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <4A870900.4000703@rogers.com>

Ivan Avery Frey wrote:
> I don't believe there's any use for old books on televsion theory. The
> CRT is dead, right?
>
>   

Pretty much and TVs don't work the way they used to either, with digital
signals, HD etc.

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From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 20:11:27 2009
From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:11:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: OT: Old Television Books
In-Reply-To: <4A870019.2030502-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A86F641.5040800@utoronto.ca> <4A870019.2030502@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908151605520.9758@doublethink>

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:

> On 15/08/09 01:54 PM, Ivan Avery Frey wrote:
> > I don't believe there's any use for old books on televsion theory. The
> > CRT is dead, right?
> 
> Put them up on Craigslist. Someone might take them.
> 
> I also have a major purge of books and "stuff" coming soon. I have Radio
> Electronics magazines dating back to the early '60s, some of which are
> starting to crumble as the paper deteriorates. I'll probably hang on to
> them if for nothing else than nostalgic reasons but it's hard to see how
> they're useful any more. I also have some Elektor magazines from the
> '70s from the days that I started tinkering with electronics. I'll hang
> onto them too.
> 
> What I have no use for are the tons of Windows NT and Netware books that
> I have. I'll send a link to a full list when I have it assembled.

   I've been thinking of getting rid of boxes of books that have
   nothing more than nostalgia value, mostly C=64 and Amiga stuff. If
   anyone's interested, I'll put together a list and post it here.

-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
   ===================================================================
   Author:
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 21:36:30 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:36:30 -0400
Subject: wifi 450-500 feet, almost line of sight, anyone done
 this?
In-Reply-To: <20090814173904.a78d756e.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090814173904.a78d756e.tleslie@tcn.net>
Message-ID: <4A872A5E.6070707@rogers.com>

ted leslie wrote:
> i have a need to use wifi 450-500 feet away from the base station,
> and the point 500' away is almost line of site, just a few bushes in between.
> i googled and saw some units claiming as much as 600'
> but others , in practice, not getting that much.
> Anyone done 500' confirmed? doesn't matter if its 'g' or 'n' or whatever,
> i just need basic solid connection, not blazing speed.
> as a last resort i know i can get a repeater and put it in the middle,
> but thats messy (i.e. leaving a repeater, hooked to battery, outside).
> i also saw a "dish" wifi, that is supposed to double range,
> but thats sounds fishy, 
> i have often wondered about these range boosters,
> given, you have to get the signal back to the unit from the pc,
> so I find these booster hard to believe.
>
>   
There are some high gain antennas that will do the trick.  A popular one
is called "Cantenna", which incidentally is a name borrowed from a
Heathkit dummy load.  When dealing with radio communications, the big
concern is path loss, which has to be overcome by transmitter power and
antenna gain.  The typical WiFi NIC is more or less omni-directional,
sending the signal in all directions.  A gain antenna will focus the
signal in a favoured direction, and provide an apparent increase in
power.  However, this apparent increase comes at the cost of signal
strength in other directions.  Bottom line, higher gain antennas provide
more gain, but also a more directional signal.

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 21:45:44 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:45:44 -0400
Subject: OT: Old Television Books
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908151605520.9758@doublethink>
References: <4A86F641.5040800@utoronto.ca> <4A870019.2030502@dinamis.com> <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908151605520.9758@doublethink>
Message-ID: <4A872C88.3030106@rogers.com>

Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>    I've been thinking of getting rid of boxes of books that have
>    nothing more than nostalgia value, mostly C=64 and Amiga stuff. If
>    anyone's interested, I'll put together a list and post it here.
>
>   
Ah yes, the Commie 64.  I remember when they were the thing to have.  I
have never owned any Commodore computers, but I modified a couple of VIC
20s to increase the memory from 5K to 8K.

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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 22:52:29 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:52:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: OT: Old Television Books
In-Reply-To: <4A872C88.3030106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A86F641.5040800@utoronto.ca> <4A870019.2030502@dinamis.com> <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908151605520.9758@doublethink> <4A872C88.3030106@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908151845400.4017@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
| 
| Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
| >    I've been thinking of getting rid of boxes of books that have
| >    nothing more than nostalgia value, mostly C=64 and Amiga stuff. If
| >    anyone's interested, I'll put together a list and post it here.
| >
| >   
| Ah yes, the Commie 64.  I remember when they were the thing to have.  I
| have never owned any Commodore computers, but I modified a couple of VIC
| 20s to increase the memory from 5K to 8K.

We still use a Commodore filing cabinet.  Yes, the same company.

When I got rid of an Amiga 2000, I contacted TPUG (lexographically close 
to TLUG) and they were happy to find a home for it.

I imagine that they might be a good organization through which to outplace 
old Commodore artifacts.

I was mostly on the other side of the divide: we have an Atari 800xl and 
several Atari STs.  Atari and Amiga owners seemed to feel that there was a 
conflict.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 15 23:45:06 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:45:06 -0400
Subject: OT: Old Television Books
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908151845400.4017-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A86F641.5040800@utoronto.ca> <4A870019.2030502@dinamis.com> <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908151605520.9758@doublethink> <4A872C88.3030106@rogers.com> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908151845400.4017@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <4A874882.6090002@rogers.com>

D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> We still use a Commodore filing cabinet.  Yes, the same company.
>
>   
Can you still get software for it?  ;-)
> When I got rid of an Amiga 2000, I contacted TPUG (lexographically close 
> to TLUG) and they were happy to find a home for it.
>
> I imagine that they might be a good organization through which to outplace 
> old Commodore artifacts.
>
> I was mostly on the other side of the divide: we have an Atari 800xl and 
> several Atari STs.  Atari and Amiga owners seemed to feel that there was a 
> conflict.
>   

Back in those days, I had an IMSAI 8080, which was a better built clone
of the Altair 8800

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSAI_8080
http://oldcomputers.net/imsai8080.html

You'll notice the red & blue switches on the front panel.  These here
are set up for someone who liked to work in hex.  On mine, I set them up
for octal, because the Intel 8080 instruction set opcodes were easily
remembered if you worked in octal.  Not so in hex.

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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 16 04:14:38 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 00:14:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: OT: Old Television Books
In-Reply-To: <4A874882.6090002-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A86F641.5040800@utoronto.ca> <4A870019.2030502@dinamis.com> <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908151605520.9758@doublethink> <4A872C88.3030106@rogers.com> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908151845400.4017@redclaw.mimosa.com> <4A874882.6090002@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908152205490.4017@redclaw.mimosa.com>

[This message is just old-fogey talk.  You may wish to skip it.]

| From: James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>

| Back in those days, I had an IMSAI 8080, which was a better built clone
| of the Altair 8800

I still have my Altair 8800.  I haven't turned it on in years.

The IMSAI sure was better built.  But the Altair is more iconic.

| You'll notice the red & blue switches on the front panel.  These here
| are set up for someone who liked to work in hex.  On mine, I set them up
| for octal, because the Intel 8080 instruction set opcodes were easily
| remembered if you worked in octal.  Not so in hex.

I wrote a monitor and burned it into EPROM (using a Bytesaver(TM)) so
I didn't have to use the switches very much.  It included a
disassembler and an assembler so that I didn't have to use hex or
octal very much.

We used an audio tape drive for files.  I never did get a disk drive.

I wrote more but I'm saving the list from even more old fogey stuff.
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From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 16 06:58:31 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:58:31 -0400
Subject: GPL Case Against Danish Satellite Provider
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908152358i18ff891bk5435bc8affd0515b@mail.gmail.com>

>From Slashdot (http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/08/16/001254/GPL-Case-Against-Danish-Satellite-Provider):

The number of satellite and cable boxes on the Danish market using
Linux has significantly increased during the last couple of years. The
providers Viasat (http://www.viasat.dk/), Yousee
(http://www.yousee.dk/) and Stofa (http://www.stofa.dk/) all provide
HD receivers based on Linux, and all of them fail to provide the
source code or make customers aware of the fact that the units are
based on GPL licensed software. I decided it was time to fix this
situation and luckily the Danish legal company BvHD
(http://www.bvhd.dk/) has decided to take the case. We are starting
with Viasat, which distributes a Samsung box including middleware and
security from NDS, and you can follow the case here
(http://duff.dk/viasat).

-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 16 13:20:53 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:20:53 -0400
Subject: GPL Case Against Danish Satellite Provider
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908152358i18ff891bk5435bc8affd0515b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908152358i18ff891bk5435bc8affd0515b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8807B5.90303@rogers.com>

Michael Lauzon wrote:
> >From Slashdot (http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/08/16/001254/GPL-Case-Against-Danish-Satellite-Provider):
>
> The number of satellite and cable boxes on the Danish market using
> Linux has significantly increased during the last couple of years. The
> providers Viasat (http://www.viasat.dk/), Yousee
> (http://www.yousee.dk/) and Stofa (http://www.stofa.dk/) all provide
> HD receivers based on Linux, and all of them fail to provide the
> source code or make customers aware of the fact that the units are
> based on GPL licensed software. I decided it was time to fix this
> situation and luckily the Danish legal company BvHD
> (http://www.bvhd.dk/) has decided to take the case. We are starting
> with Viasat, which distributes a Samsung box including middleware and
> security from NDS, and you can follow the case here
> (http://duff.dk/viasat).
>
>   
How does it work, if they don't make the box?  I have a Samsung Blu-ray
player and it contains the GPL etc. in the manual.  Now if Samsung
included it in the manual, but the companies distributing the box don't
pass on the manuals, who's at fault?  Does Samsung have the source code
on their web site?
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From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 16 13:51:36 2009
From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:51:36 -0400
Subject: GPL Case Against Danish Satellite Provider
In-Reply-To: <4A8807B5.90303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908152358i18ff891bk5435bc8affd0515b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A8807B5.90303@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <491f66a50908160651v59d4724fx48398c909d51ae11@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 9:20 AM, James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Michael Lauzon wrote:
> > >From Slashdot (
> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/08/16/001254/GPL-Case-Against-Danish-Satellite-Provider
> ):
> >
> > The number of satellite and cable boxes on the Danish market using
> > Linux has significantly increased during the last couple of years. The
> > providers Viasat (http://www.viasat.dk/), Yousee
> > (http://www.yousee.dk/) and Stofa (http://www.stofa.dk/) all provide
> > HD receivers based on Linux, and all of them fail to provide the
> > source code or make customers aware of the fact that the units are
> > based on GPL licensed software. I decided it was time to fix this
> > situation and luckily the Danish legal company BvHD
> > (http://www.bvhd.dk/) has decided to take the case. We are starting
> > with Viasat, which distributes a Samsung box including middleware and
> > security from NDS, and you can follow the case here
> > (http://duff.dk/viasat).
> >
> >
> How does it work, if they don't make the box?  I have a Samsung Blu-ray
> player and it contains the GPL etc. in the manual.  Now if Samsung
> included it in the manual, but the companies distributing the box don't
> pass on the manuals, who's at fault?  Does Samsung have the source code
> on their web site?


More interesting is that according to the GPL the original authors have to
make the complaint. So each individual project has to make a legal
complaint.



>
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From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 16 14:32:06 2009
From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:32:06 -0400
Subject: GPL Case Against Danish Satellite Provider
In-Reply-To: <491f66a50908160651v59d4724fx48398c909d51ae11-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908152358i18ff891bk5435bc8affd0515b@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8807B5.90303@rogers.com> <491f66a50908160651v59d4724fx48398c909d51ae11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A881866.1080509@moores.ca>



Dave Cramer wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 9:20 AM, James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
> <mailto:james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>> wrote:
> 
>     Michael Lauzon wrote:
>     > >From Slashdot
>     (http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/08/16/001254/GPL-Case-Against-Danish-Satellite-Provider):
>     >
>     > The number of satellite and cable boxes on the Danish market using
>     > Linux has significantly increased during the last couple of years. The
>     > providers Viasat (http://www.viasat.dk/), Yousee
>     > (http://www.yousee.dk/) and Stofa (http://www.stofa.dk/) all provide
>     > HD receivers based on Linux, and all of them fail to provide the
>     > source code or make customers aware of the fact that the units are
>     > based on GPL licensed software. I decided it was time to fix this
>     > situation and luckily the Danish legal company BvHD
>     > (http://www.bvhd.dk/) has decided to take the case. We are starting
>     > with Viasat, which distributes a Samsung box including middleware and
>     > security from NDS, and you can follow the case here
>     > (http://duff.dk/viasat).
>     >
>     >
>     How does it work, if they don't make the box?  I have a Samsung Blu-ray
>     player and it contains the GPL etc. in the manual.  Now if Samsung
>     included it in the manual, but the companies distributing the box don't
>     pass on the manuals, who's at fault?  Does Samsung have the source code
>     on their web site?
> 
> 
> More interesting is that according to the GPL the original authors have
> to make the complaint. So each individual project has to make a legal
> complaint.
> 

From: http://duff.dk/viasat/

August 16th, 2009 - It has been brought to my attention that I do not
state which part of the GPL code I am claiming copyright ownership on. I
have some patches in the Linux kernel and a direct copyright notice in
e.g. therm_adt746x.c. However my patches alone are not going to make a
very strong case and it is my hope that big contributors to busybox and
uClibc will help out making a bigger group of people who had their
copyright violated. I have already contacted several people who have
very clear violations of their copyright in the product, and we are
looking to sue on their behalf too. But let me please be very clear
about the fact that I would rather this case could be settled in a
peaceful manner.
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 16 14:56:52 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:56:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: GPL Case Against Danish Satellite Provider
In-Reply-To: <491f66a50908160651v59d4724fx48398c909d51ae11-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908152358i18ff891bk5435bc8affd0515b@mail.gmail.com>  <4A8807B5.90303@rogers.com> <491f66a50908160651v59d4724fx48398c909d51ae11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908161039110.10090@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: Dave Cramer <davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org>

| More interesting is that according to the GPL the original authors have to
| make the complaint. So each individual project has to make a legal
| complaint.

No, any individual copyright holder (author) can make a complaint.

The real headache is that any settlement must be agreed to by every
copyright holder for the other side to feel confident.  In particular,
once you are out of compliance with the GPL, you cannot get onside
again without all copyright holders agreeing (i.e. the GPL itself
gives no way of regaining the rights you lost by going out of
compliance so you need to relicense it).

Although this is a real problem, I don't know if it has shown up in
practice.

As an example that I was peripherally involved in, Hava distributed
Busybox and the kernel and probably other GPLed code without
compliance.  They were sued by (some of) the busybox copyright
holders.  They settled by agreeing to abide by the terms of the GPL
and by giving undisclosed amounts of money to the Software Freedom Law
Center (and perhaps to the litigating copyright holders).  They were
not sued with respect to the Kernel.  In theory, I think that they
could still be.

By looking at thw Wiki page
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BusyBox#GPL_lawsuits you can see that 
authorship of Busybox is contentious.  I recently toned down the last 
sentence of that section.  Here's what it had said:
-  	
    It should be noted that no other prior developers including original
    author Bruce Perens and long time maintainer Dave Cinege were
    represented in these actions raising questions as to Anderson and
    Landley's copyright claims and standing to bring suit.{{Fact|date=June
    2009}} 
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 16 15:08:16 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:08:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <20090811141609.GC3444-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com> <20090811141609.GC3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908161105251.10090@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>

| I have always been happy with APC.  The APC Smartups 1500 being my
| prefered UPS (at least whenever Dell puts it on sale for $200).

Today's Ted Hot Deal of the Day from Dell is a different APC UPS.  By
the small quoted "starting from" price, I infer it isn't as good:

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/sna.aspx?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs&~topic=hotdeals_redhot&redirect=1

    APC Back-UPS RS 1500 LCD - UPS - 865 Watt - 1500 VA 120 V UPS System

    Starting From		$269.99
    You Save		$80.00
    Now		$189.991
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From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 16 15:39:09 2009
From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:39:09 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908161105251.10090-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com> <20090811141609.GC3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908161105251.10090@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <4A88281D.8020108@golden.net>

D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> | From: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>
>
> | I have always been happy with APC.  The APC Smartups 1500 being my
> | prefered UPS (at least whenever Dell puts it on sale for $200).
>
> Today's Ted Hot Deal of the Day from Dell is a different APC UPS.  By
> the small quoted "starting from" price, I infer it isn't as good:
>
> http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/sna.aspx?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs&~topic=hotdeals_redhot&redirect=1
>
>     APC Back-UPS RS 1500 LCD - UPS - 865 Watt - 1500 VA 120 V UPS System
>
>     Starting From		$269.99
>     You Save		$80.00
>     Now		$189.991
> --
>   

I got one these units from work that they were throwing out evidently 
the batteries were toast. I refilled them with distilled water and got
it to work again however only briefly.

For some reason our IT which is based in Montreal doesn't do any 
maintenance on these units. Maintenance
free is a myth IMHO especially with Lead Acid batteries. BTW they are 
not sealed completely and can be easily opened.

I found replacement batteries for $116.16 from here 
http://www.a1parts.com/cgb/12180HR-1.htm

OEM is too expensive or I'm too cheap ;-)  Any other suggestion on where 
to get them or alternatives?

TIA
.
John

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 16 16:14:02 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:14:02 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <4A88281D.8020108-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com> <20090811141609.GC3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908161105251.10090@redclaw.mimosa.com> <4A88281D.8020108@golden.net>
Message-ID: <4A88304A.7080208@rogers.com>

John Myshrall wrote:
> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
>> | From: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>
>>
>> | I have always been happy with APC.  The APC Smartups 1500 being my
>> | prefered UPS (at least whenever Dell puts it on sale for $200).
>>
>> Today's Ted Hot Deal of the Day from Dell is a different APC UPS.  By
>> the small quoted "starting from" price, I infer it isn't as good:
>>
>> http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/sna.aspx?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs&~topic=hotdeals_redhot&redirect=1
>>
>>
>>     APC Back-UPS RS 1500 LCD - UPS - 865 Watt - 1500 VA 120 V UPS System
>>
>>     Starting From        $269.99
>>     You Save        $80.00
>>     Now        $189.991
>> -- 
>>   
>
> I got one these units from work that they were throwing out evidently
> the batteries were toast. I refilled them with distilled water and got
> it to work again however only briefly.
>
> For some reason our IT which is based in Montreal doesn't do any
> maintenance on these units. Maintenance
> free is a myth IMHO especially with Lead Acid batteries. BTW they are
> not sealed completely and can be easily opened.
>
> I found replacement batteries for $116.16 from here
> http://www.a1parts.com/cgb/12180HR-1.htm
>
> OEM is too expensive or I'm too cheap ;-)  Any other suggestion on
> where to get them or alternatives?
>

I have bought replacement UPS batteries here: http://www.magnacharge.com
They're located in Mississauga near Derry & Dixie

Magnacharge
B-6670 Columbus Road, Mississauga, ON L5T 2G1
905-565-6616

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 16 16:58:10 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:58:10 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <4A88304A.7080208-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com> <20090811141609.GC3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908161105251.10090@redclaw.mimosa.com> <4A88281D.8020108@golden.net> <4A88304A.7080208@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4A883AA2.50101@rogers.com>

James Knott wrote:
> I have bought replacement UPS batteries here: http://www.magnacharge.com
> They're located in Mississauga near Derry & Dixie
>
> Magnacharge
> B-6670 Columbus Road, Mississauga, ON L5T 2G1
> 905-565-6616
>
>
>   
I forgot to mention, you can also drop off old batteries there for
recycling.
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 16 20:24:58 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:24:58 -0400
Subject: USB Doesn't Work During PXE Boot With Dell Dimension 5150 BIOS A07
Message-ID: <4A886B1A.3010001@dinamis.com>

Hi,

I thought I'd share my recent adventures with a Dell Dimension 5150. It
all started a few weeks ago when the machine would not power up. More
correctly, the power LED would only flash amber a few times and nothing
further would happen. The power LED should be green when the machine is
running normally. According to various on-line accounts, this was a very
common problem with these machines. I checked the warranty status and
found it had 79 days remaining so I called Dell. They offered to send a
power supply and motherboard and would have sent a technician on-site
but I knew that would have only delayed the process so I agreed to
replace the parts myself.

The parts arrived in a couple of days and the first thing I replaced was
the power supply. This time, the amber light was consistent but still,
there were no other signs of life so I replaced the motherboard. The
machine booted fine with the new motherboard.

I have a Cobbler installation server that has local mirrors of the
Fedora 10 and Fedora 11 repositories and I wanted to do a kickstart
installation of 11 using PXE so I rebooted. I had the BIOS boot order
set to PXE, Optical device, and hard disk and the default boot option
for the menu presented by Cobbler was to boot from the local hard disk
if there is no selection made in 30 seconds. The other options are the
various installation profiles, Fedora 10 32 or 64 bit, desktop or
server, and the same for Fedora 11. I tried to select Fedora 11 64 bit
server but the cursor control keys had no effect. Caps and num lock had
no effect either. The only keyboard option on that machine is USB so
without any means of selecting the menu, the PXE boot timed out and the
ROM on the network card passed control over to the mbr of the hard disk
from which it booted successfully. I could have changed the default boot
option to be whatever I wanted in Cobbler but why should I have had to?
I had done countless test installations on the very same machine prior
to the PSU/motherboard failure so I knew it was feasible.

I called Dell and of course explaining the above to them was a big
challenge. Their solution was to send me another motherboard. When it
arrived in a couple of days, I replaced the second motherboard but
unfortunately, it misbehaved in exactly the same way. I had noticed the
date on the BIOS reported on POST was about 10 days prior to the date on
the web site but the Dell support people couldn't tell me if that was
significant or not so I decided to flash the BIOS by creating a bootable
USB key running FreeDOS and copied the .exe BIOS update from the Dell
site onto the key. I doubted it would make any difference especially
after I was prompted to confirm if I wanted to replace the A07 version
with the A07 and of course, it made no difference. Dell had no answer
and I had a machine that wasn't working like it was before this all started.

A few days later, I was at the school from which the machine above came
and picked up a couple more Dimension 5150s onto which the plan was to
do a Cobbler install of Fedora 11. I noticed that the first of the
machines reported an A05 version of the BIOS. Without even thinking
about it, I rebooted and upgraded the BIOS using the USB key to A07. On
reboot, it was misbehaving in exactly the same way as the other machine,
dead USB keyboard while the PXE boot ROM had control. I immediately
plugged in the other machine hoping that it was A05 and danced a jig
when I saw that it was. Sure enough, I had USB keyboard control on that
machine and could select any of the options from the boot menu presented
by Cobbler.

I had just confirmed that this was a BIOS bug with the latest BIOS
available for that machine so I called Dell and explained the situation
and asked if there was a way to revert to the previous version of the
BIOS. Some (many?) motherboards have a backup ROM so that if the BIOS
update fails, the machine isn't bricked. No such luck with Dell but
after consulting engineering, I was told to type "y:\something" at which
point I reminded him that I had no Y: drive and that I had booted from
the USB key as the C: drive. He didn't seem to understand what he was
talking about so I ignored the irrelevant part about the Y: drive and
ran the BIOS update with the "/forceit" option. After it asked if I
really, really wanted to downgrade and I confirmed that I did, it went
off on its merry way to overwrite and verify the BIOS. After a minute or
so, it prompted me to hit "any key" to reboot, which I did. It didn't
reboot. It powered down. Any attempts to power up have been
unsuccessful. I called Dell support again and they had me remove the
CMOS battery. That didn't help. For good measure, and clearly not
understanding that removing the CMOS battery did the same thing, the
tech had me remove the jumper next to the CMOS battery, though he,
incorrectly, didn't have me short the two other pins of the three in
that block. He had me remove the RAM to see if it would complain with
beep codes, which it did. He had me remove the add-on video card and
remove the CMOS battery again to force it to use the on-board video card
that I wasn't even aware existed. None of that helped so I now have a
bricked machine while Dell support talks to engineering to figure out
how to roll back to A05 without bricking the machines.

Of course figuring out how to roll back to A05 is an imperfect solution
since it means we'll have to put big warnings all over those machines
"DANGER! DON'T UPGRADE TO AO7!" The ROM is soldered to the BTX
motherboard so replacing it isn't an option. What a mess!
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 16 20:39:51 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:39:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: USB Doesn't Work During PXE Boot With Dell Dimension
 5150 BIOS A07
In-Reply-To: <4A886B1A.3010001-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A886B1A.3010001@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908161632500.10090@redclaw.mimosa.com>

Thanks for that tale!

I hope Dell figures out what they've screwed up.

Is there a BIOS option to make a USB keyboard and looking like a
regular keyboard?  I seem to remember those existing in some BIOS
setup pages but disguised with an unclear description ("USB Legacy
Support").

Here's one google hit:
  http://www.intel.com/support/peripherals/sb/cs-011939.htm
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 05:00:10 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:00:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Communicating over Quantum Channels
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908170054580.10090@redclaw.mimosa.com>

Talk at Fields Institute today at 16:00.  College east of Spadina.
Will be math heavy, but I intend to go.  The subsequent two talks will 
probably be harder.
Presenter is part of Microsoft Research Station Q
 http://www.fields.utoronto.ca/programs/scientific/09-10/quantuminfo/DLS/index.html
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From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 11:26:15 2009
From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:26:15 -0400
Subject: Communicating over Quantum Channels
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908170054580.10090-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908170054580.10090@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <a768be480908170426p12da23e3hb876d13129750e50@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 1:00 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier<hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Talk at Fields Institute today at 16:00. ?College east of Spadina.
> Will be math heavy, but I intend to go. ?The subsequent two talks will
> probably be harder.
> Presenter is part of Microsoft Research Station Q
> ?http://www.fields.utoronto.ca/programs/scientific/09-10/quantuminfo/DLS/index.html

"Dr. Heisenberg, you have a call on line, ... er, which line was that?"
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From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 15:06:06 2009
From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:06:06 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
Message-ID: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>


I know about some remote reboot devices like 
http://www.digital-loggers.com/lpc.html
which btw at $109 is quite a good price.


What I want to do  a system where I

1. connect a keyboard cable to every server I have (400+)
    and be able to send a CTRL-ALT-DELETE to it.
    This would only reboot working and network ready servers.
    (kernel panics, powered off servers etc would not help)

2. If that does not help, then do a motherboard PW/RESET.

This will address all problems except hardware issues.
Does such a system exist?


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 15:10:45 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:10:45 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <4A8971DE.3010006-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>
Message-ID: <4A8972F5.6040107@rogers.com>

teddy mills wrote:
>
> I know about some remote reboot devices like
> http://www.digital-loggers.com/lpc.html
> which btw at $109 is quite a good price.
>
>
> What I want to do  a system where I
>
> 1. connect a keyboard cable to every server I have (400+)
>    and be able to send a CTRL-ALT-DELETE to it.
>    This would only reboot working and network ready servers.
>    (kernel panics, powered off servers etc would not help)
>
> 2. If that does not help, then do a motherboard PW/RESET.
>
> This will address all problems except hardware issues.
> Does such a system exist?
>
Google on network KVM.  There are devices which can be used for remote
KVM connection via the network.

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From erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 15:11:33 2009
From: erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Erik L)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:11:33 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <4A8971DE.3010006-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>
Message-ID: <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com>

> Does such a system exist?
Yeah...it's called HP iLO :)
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From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 15:40:52 2009
From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:40:52 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990-dCwRk7XjkHbuDgzvhp7rgdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com>
Message-ID: <4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca>

Just Migrate 400 servers and spent 500K.
Glad your not my sales rep or consultant :)


Erik L wrote:
>> Does such a system exist?
> Yeah...it's called HP iLO :)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 18:22:58 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:22:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <4A897A04.3050206-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com> <4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908171348490.10090@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: teddy mills <teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org>
| 
| Erik L wrote:
| > > Does such a system exist?
| > Yeah...it's called HP iLO :)

| Just Migrate 400 servers and spent 500K.
| Glad your not my sales rep or consultant :)

Just buy 400 servers and then figure out how to manage them.  Glad you
aren't my boss :-)

Honestly, I don't know much about this subject.  Certainly there are
all sorts of schemes for "manageablility".  Too bad that most of the
blurbs are marketing and avoid at all costs explaining what is
involved.  I fear too often that these require proprietary software
components that are unavailable to Linux.

Intel vPro(TM) Techology, for example.
http://www.intel.com/technology/vpro/index.htm

HP, IBM, Lenovo, and Dell all address these issues too.

My impression is that if you want these features, the vendors expect
you to have a large amount of cash that they can extract from you.
The advantage of Intel is that there is a limit to the amount of cash
they feel that they can get for a CPU & chipset.

When I moved from a Sun workstation to a PC fifteen years ago, I could
not believe how little thought there was to managing it without
sitting at the PC's keyboard and display.  All Suns I used supported
serial consoles and headless operation (oh, and diskless).  They also
had better graphics at the same time.  And more powerful firmware for
the console (forth-like).

This might be interesting, but I wonder if the company is still alive.
A bit pricy too.  Oh, and PCI slots are disappearing.  An Ebay search for
"PC weasel 2000" comes up empty.

http://www.realweasel.com/intro.html
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2006-November/134685.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Weasel_2000
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From erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 19:16:08 2009
From: erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Erik L)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:16:08 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <4A897A04.3050206-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>
 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com>,<4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca>
Message-ID: <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A991@klsapp1.klssys.com>

teddy mills:
> Just Migrate 400 servers and spent 500K.
> Glad your not my sales rep or consultant :)
> 
Glad to be of service :) :) :)
I was kidding of course. A KVM over IP is probably your best solution.
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From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 19:36:00 2009
From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:36:00 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A991-dCwRk7XjkHbuDgzvhp7rgdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>
	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com>
	 <4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca>
	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A991@klsapp1.klssys.com>
Message-ID: <32f6a8880908171236ia52e6feo4036e5c40eef05@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Teddy,

Do you have monitoring on those systems? Because you may be able to
limit the amount of hardware resets/soft resets by monitoring the
applications and attacking the problem before it gets that bad.
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From erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 19:41:44 2009
From: erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Erik L)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:41:44 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880908171236ia52e6feo4036e5c40eef05-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>
	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com>
	 <4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca>
	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A991@klsapp1.klssys.com>,<32f6a8880908171236ia52e6feo4036e5c40eef05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A992@klsapp1.klssys.com>

Dave Germiquet:
> Do you have monitoring on those systems? Because you may be able to
> limit the amount of hardware resets/soft resets by monitoring the
> applications and attacking the problem before it gets that bad.
>
I think that's solving the wrong problem. Console access is still useful and sometimes you don't know when you might need it. For example, you might make a change in production that went fine in testing and discover that a server is going into kernel panic a few hours later. There is no opportunity here to "attack the problem before it gets that bad" and monitoring can't help you at that point other than to tell you that the box is down.

In lieu of something like HP iLO or another built-in solution, a remote reboot + KVM over IP is one alternative.
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From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 20:00:49 2009
From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:00:49 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A992-dCwRk7XjkHbuDgzvhp7rgdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>
	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com>
	 <4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca>
	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A991@klsapp1.klssys.com>
	 <32f6a8880908171236ia52e6feo4036e5c40eef05@mail.gmail.com>
	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A992@klsapp1.klssys.com>
Message-ID: <daf2a09e0908171300xce471asf3b22cf81913f8b2@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Erik L <erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Dave Germiquet:
> > Do you have monitoring on those systems? Because you may be able to
> > limit the amount of hardware resets/soft resets by monitoring the
> > applications and attacking the problem before it gets that bad.
> >
> I think that's solving the wrong problem. Console access is still useful
> and sometimes you don't know when you might need it. For example, you might
> make a change in production that went fine in testing and discover that a
> server is going into kernel panic a few hours later. There is no opportunity
> here to "attack the problem before it gets that bad" and monitoring can't
> help you at that point other than to tell you that the box is down.
>
> In lieu of something like HP iLO or another built-in solution, a remote
> reboot + KVM over IP is one alternative.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>


You can also use serial console switches. Assuming the servers support it.
Of course they wouldn't offer any gui access to the boxes.

-- 
Mark Lane <lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
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From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 20:29:04 2009
From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:29:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A992-dCwRk7XjkHbuDgzvhp7rgdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>  <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com>  <4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca>  <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A991@klsapp1.klssys.com>,<32f6a8880908171236ia52e6feo4036e5c40eef05@mail.gmail.com>
 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A992@klsapp1.klssys.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908171627450.14819@imac2006.local>

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009, Erik L wrote:
> In lieu of something like HP iLO or another built-in solution, 
> a remote reboot + KVM over IP is one alternative.

Wondering if anybody do a solution using firewire? Through 
firewire, not only one can reset, but one can also get the 
memory dump from a completely locked-up machine. :-)

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   /___  /___/ /___/ /___      http://www.arifsaha.com/
  ____/ /     /   / ____/
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 21:52:24 2009
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:52:24 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908171627450.14819-aZibgg63UJu44ywRPIzf9A@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>
	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com>
	 <4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca>
	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A991@klsapp1.klssys.com>
	 <32f6a8880908171236ia52e6feo4036e5c40eef05@mail.gmail.com>
	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A992@klsapp1.klssys.com>
	 <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908171627450.14819@imac2006.local>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0908171452k12fe0344jd9c7ad727dd6f5c5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:29 PM, S P Arif Sahari
Wibowo<arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Aug 2009, Erik L wrote:
>>
>> In lieu of something like HP iLO or another built-in solution, a remote
>> reboot + KVM over IP is one alternative.
>
> Wondering if anybody do a solution using firewire? Through firewire, not
> only one can reset, but one can also get the memory dump from a completely
> locked-up machine. :-)

That's mighty cool, but that would seem to have the downside that it
requires that you set up a Firewire bus connecting to all the
machines.

I know where I can get 6-port FireWire hubs, but not patch panels with
24 or 48 FireWire connections ;-).

The more natural solution is that of KVM-over-IP, perhaps alongside
having network-accessible power controls.

A brief browse suggests that in quantity, KVM-over-IP can be gotten
for ~$100/server; I would be exceedingly surprised if you could get a
FireWire solution cheaper.

Unfortunately, adding this in for ~400 servers would cost about
$40,000, for KVM, and it may cost some comparable amount to add power
controls.
-- 
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
Ted Turner  - "Sports is like a war without the killing." -
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/ted_turner.html
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 22:04:33 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:04:33 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f0908171452k12fe0344jd9c7ad727dd6f5c5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com>	 <4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca>	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A991@klsapp1.klssys.com>	 <32f6a8880908171236ia52e6feo4036e5c40eef05@mail.gmail.com>	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A992@klsapp1.klssys.com>	 <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908171627450.14819@imac2006.local> <d6d6637f0908171452k12fe0344jd9c7ad727dd6f5c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A89D3F1.10304@linuxcaffe.ca>

Christopher Browne wrote:

> Unfortunately, adding this in for ~400 servers would cost about
> $40,000, for KVM, and it may cost some comparable amount to add power
> controls.

for that amount, you could just hire a homeless guy for the next couple 
of years and give him a pager with the number of the server to reboot !
done ! solutions-R-us !
;-)
djp

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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 17 23:59:05 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:59:05 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990-dCwRk7XjkHbuDgzvhp7rgdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>
	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908171659g79af0830wc8e1fcf140346435@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Erik L<erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> Does such a system exist?
> Yeah...it's called HP iLO :)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

Also known as IPMI (IP Management Interface) on other systems.
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From tang_mengd-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 18 01:10:52 2009
From: tang_mengd-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Meng Tang)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:10:52 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0908171659g79af0830wc8e1fcf140346435-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>
	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com> 
 <3a97ef0908171659g79af0830wc8e1fcf140346435@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY112-W34EFE9DC09E27185B28133E9FF0@phx.gbl>




> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:59:05 -0400
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Does such a system exist?
> From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> 
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Erik L<erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >> Does such a system exist?
> > Yeah...it's called HP iLO :)
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> >
> 
> Also known as IPMI (IP Management Interface) on other systems.

I think this is the correct answer.
Intelligent Platform Management InterfaceIt can do remove power up, power down and reset. 


> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists

_________________________________________________________________
More storage. Better anti-spam and antivirus protection. Hotmail makes it simple.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671357
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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 18 02:36:21 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:36:21 -0400
Subject: OT - Being 787 issues, does this mean carbon composite 
	has issues?
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908071309s1559255fua0f7c0fb3d275b18-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <b8f780870908012100v725cf4bdve27e81a4dd8fbfaf@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A758D2F.9070901@rogers.com>
	 <3da692049dec79a1b36e0f18aa18820c.squirrel@petelancashire.com>
	 <4A771A0F.3050403@telly.org>
	 <b8f780870908031120o6e43033cg775ceee9479a1b99@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090807155521.GT2989@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	 <b8f780870908071309s1559255fua0f7c0fb3d275b18@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908171936t7b264371p846d1e34c5dffa70@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Seem they discovered more issues.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/08/breaking-structural-flaw-halts.html


William

2009/8/7 William Muriithi <william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>:
>
>>
>>
>> They were using the same software. ?Unfortunately one location had
>> upgraded to the latest version, while the other one was one version
>> behind and had not yet gotten around to upgrading. ?The two versions
>> did not talk to each other directly, so they didn't get to immedialtly
>> see the combination of their work and any conflicts it caused.
>
> Got that. I wonder if they still use the same software after it caused them
> to loose millions of dollars?? This is one case where backward compatibility
> was very important.
>
> Regards,
>
> William
>>
>> --
>> Len Sorensen
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 18 05:13:45 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:13:45 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <4A897A04.3050206-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com> <4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca>
Message-ID: <4A8A3889.6090306@dinamis.com>

On 17/08/09 11:40 AM, teddy mills wrote:
> Just Migrate 400 servers and spent 500K.
> Glad your not my sales rep or consultant :)

I have a friend at IBM who would have told you that you could have
bought a z Series (mainframe) for that kind of money. Apparently,
they're pretty good at running Linux and you can bet they would have
some very good tools for LPARs (virtualization).
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 18 14:13:59 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:13:59 -0700
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <BAY112-W34EFE9DC09E27185B28133E9FF0-MsuGFMq8XAE@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>
	 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com>
	 <3a97ef0908171659g79af0830wc8e1fcf140346435@mail.gmail.com>
	 <BAY112-W34EFE9DC09E27185B28133E9FF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908180713x4a7d7bffm808168001f7b648a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Meng Tang<tang_mengd-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>
>> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:59:05 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Does such a system exist?
>> From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Erik L<erik_list-etARiVBfTZtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> >> Does such a system exist?
>> > Yeah...it's called HP iLO :)
>> > --
>> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>> >
>>
>> Also known as IPMI (IP Management Interface) on other systems.
>
> I think this is the correct answer.
>
> Intelligent Platform Management Interface
>
> It can do remove power up, power down and reset.
>

Yup that's the one. I had thought that the IP in IPMI was the same as
"IP address", but "Intelligent Platform" makes sense :-)


>
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
> ________________________________
> More storage. Better anti-spam and antivirus protection. Hotmail makes it
> simple.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 18 19:28:33 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:28:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <4A8971DE.3010006-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908181518410.19396@castor.opentrend.net>

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009, teddy mills wrote:

> 1. connect a keyboard cable to every server I have (400+)
>   and be able to send a CTRL-ALT-DELETE to it.
>   This would only reboot working and network ready servers.
>   (kernel panics, powered off servers etc would not help)
>
> 2. If that does not help, then do a motherboard PW/RESET.

As others have noted there are many options on the PCs.  A lot of vendors 
have proprietary solutions available on servers.  All the ones I'm aware 
of work fine with Linux to give you a 'serial console' which can be access 
when the network is down.

It is possible to get an OS level serial console on Linux (and has been 
for 10+ years) without BIOS level support or any hardware other than a 
serial or usb port and the cables.  The disadvantage to this option is 
that a true power cycle isn't an option and you can't access the BIOS.

Some sort of remote console access is essential for remote boxes that you 
actually want to be able to fix.

PCs are actually unusual in that they do not all come with a serial 
console out of the box.  Hardware designed for *nix or any non-Microsoft 
OS has had this as standard for 30 years or more.

Whichever way you go - KVM, serial console or whatever - be very careful 
about who can access it.  The 'out of band' management cuts around all of 
the security you have in place on your regular network.

Rob

-- 
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 18 21:52:20 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:52:20 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908171627450.14819-aZibgg63UJu44ywRPIzf9A@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com> <4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca> <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A992@klsapp1.klssys.com> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908171627450.14819@imac2006.local>
Message-ID: <20090818215220.GA31870@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 04:29:04PM -0400, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Aug 2009, Erik L wrote:
>> In lieu of something like HP iLO or another built-in solution, a remote 
>> reboot + KVM over IP is one alternative.
>
> Wondering if anybody do a solution using firewire? Through firewire, not 
> only one can reset, but one can also get the memory dump from a 
> completely locked-up machine. :-)

As long as the first 3GB of ram is all you need (since firewire is 32bit
address space only).

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 18 22:01:06 2009
From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:01:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908181518410.19396-VmJVFCIrpYC0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908181518410.19396@castor.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181744400.2258@imac2006.local>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009, Robert Brockway wrote:
> Whichever way you go - KVM, serial console or whatever - be 
> very careful about who can access it.  The 'out of band' 
> management cuts around all of the security you have in place 
> on your regular network.

That's definitely something to think about. The 'out of band' 
mechanism may need its own security.

Actually, sometime ago I was discussing something like this for 
a low-budget non-profit installation, where KVM over IP is a bit 
too expensive. I had an idea that - since each server in this 
installation has 2 serial port - that we can chain those servers 
on the serial port; so for example machine A's 1st serial port 
connect to machine B's 2nd serial port, machine B's 1st serial 
port connect to machine C's 2nd serial port, ans so on until it 
cycle back to A. Each server is setup to have BIOS & kernel 
console through serial port, monitored by the next machine in 
the chain. So, theoretically, if at least one server still up, 
and none of the server have problems that need hardware or 
physical intervention, then one can use the server that still up 
to get the next server working, and so on until all servers are 
up.

Security just need to be setup in each machine to control who 
has access to the serial port.

Never actually got around to implement it, though; but seems 
possible, what do you think?

-- 
    ____  ____  ____  ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo
   /___  /___/ /___/ /___      http://www.arifsaha.com/
  ____/ /     /   / ____/
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 18 22:08:06 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:08:06 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908161105251.10090-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com> <20090811141609.GC3444@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908161105251.10090@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <20090818220806.GB31870@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 11:08:16AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> Today's Ted Hot Deal of the Day from Dell is a different APC UPS.  By
> the small quoted "starting from" price, I infer it isn't as good:
> 
> http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/sna.aspx?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs&~topic=hotdeals_redhot&redirect=1
> 
>     APC Back-UPS RS 1500 LCD - UPS - 865 Watt - 1500 VA 120 V UPS System
> 
>     Starting From		$269.99
>     You Save		$80.00
>     Now		$189.991

A BackUPS is nothing like a SmartUPS.  Lower runtime, much lower quality
(and less than half the price too).

At 500W load, the BackUPS RS 1500 expects 11 minutes run time.  A SmartUPS
1500 expects 18 minutes.

The RS has 6 powered outlets and 2 surge protected outlets.  The SU
has 8 powered outlets.  The SU promises +/- 5% output voltage control.
The RS makes no promises.  The SU can power 980W of load, the RS 865W.
The SU has sine wave output, the RS does not.  The SU recharges in 3
hours, the RS takes 8 hours.  The SU puts put 135BTU/hour the RS puts
out 180BTU/hour (so much less efficient).  The SU has USB and serial
ports.  The RS is USB only.  The SU has a 0.3% surge let through.  The RS
has a 5% surge let through.  The SU weighs 24kg, the RS weighs 11kg.
There is clearly a difference there.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 18 22:49:26 2009
From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:49:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [OT] Copyleft license that allow inclusion in other program?
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181801580.2258@imac2006.local>

Hi!

Is there any license that allow inclusion (more than just 
linking) of the code into other program with other license, but 
the license is still copyleft (albeit weak)?

Why inclusion? Well, I think for scripts which are distributed 
and run from source (uncompiled):
  - the term "linking" is not very meaningful (often done by the 
interpreter include the code into the caller code).
  - some scripts do require inclusion to run (e.g. some shell 
codes that need to be put into the startup scripts).

Any thought? Thanks!

-- 
    ____  ____  ____  ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo
   /___  /___/ /___/ /___      http://www.arifsaha.com/
  ____/ /     /   / ____/
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 00:09:35 2009
From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:09:35 -0400
Subject: [OT] Copyleft license that allow inclusion in other 
	program?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181801580.2258-aZibgg63UJu44ywRPIzf9A@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181801580.2258@imac2006.local>
Message-ID: <99a6c38f0908181709tbba289bj4792f16ab9ca8d9@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:49 PM, S P Arif Sahari
Wibowo<arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Is there any license that allow inclusion (more than just linking) of the
> code into other program with other license, but the license is still
> copyleft (albeit weak)?
>
> Why inclusion? Well, I think for scripts which are distributed and run from
> source (uncompiled):
> ?- the term "linking" is not very meaningful (often done by the interpreter
> include the code into the caller code).
> ?- some scripts do require inclusion to run (e.g. some shell codes that need
> to be put into the startup scripts).

I've been using the LGPL in this situation; it's the closest I've
found to meeting the same criteria.  It's not perfect though, the
clauses related to linking can be a little confusing in this context.

I know more than few folks who prefer to use modified BSD and Artistic
licenses for that reason, but they're not copyleft AFAIK.  The FSF has
a good list at http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html -
copyleft being a trait they use in their classification scheme.

Incidentally, if the scripts you mentioned are web-based
(javascript/actionscript/silverlight/etc) and you haven't seen RMS on
"the JavaScript trap," you might find it worth a look:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html  He suggests using
the GPL for web scripts.

Cheers
-- 
  Scott Elcomb
  http://www.psema4.com/   @psema4
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 02:29:41 2009
From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:29:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [OT] Copyleft license that allow inclusion in other 
 program?
In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0908181709tbba289bj4792f16ab9ca8d9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181801580.2258@imac2006.local> <99a6c38f0908181709tbba289bj4792f16ab9ca8d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908182214310.2258@imac2006.local>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009, Scott Elcomb wrote:
> I've been using the LGPL in this situation; it's the closest 
> I've found to meeting the same criteria.  It's not perfect 
> though, the clauses related to linking can be a little 
> confusing in this context.
>
> I know more than few folks who prefer to use modified BSD and 
> Artistic licenses for that reason, but they're not copyleft 
> AFAIK.

Precisely what I thought and did.

> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html He suggests 
> using the GPL for web scripts.

Well, this is a bit different issue. This article is for people 
who adamantly want to avoid using non-libre software.

Back to "weak copyleft" license for script, actually javascript 
is one example why the kind of license is needed. AFAIK all 
major javascript library - even FOSS oriented - is dual licensed 
(usually one strong copyleft and the other permisive), I guess 
because there is no one copyleft license can fit the bill.

Time to develop new license?

-- 
    ____  ____  ____  ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo
   /___  /___/ /___/ /___      http://www.arifsaha.com/
  ____/ /     /   / ____/
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 05:42:34 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:42:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181744400.2258-aZibgg63UJu44ywRPIzf9A@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908181518410.19396@castor.opentrend.net> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181744400.2258@imac2006.local>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908190134290.1377@castor.opentrend.net>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote:

[Proposed serial console daisy chain snipped]

> Security just need to be setup in each machine to control who has access to 
> the serial port.

Remember anyone with root on the box can 0wn the serial port and therefore 
the console of the adjoining box.   They could easily brute force the root 
password or send Magic SysRq signals to the console.

> Never actually got around to implement it, though; but seems possible, what 
> do you think?

That approach does work from a technical POV.  You should only do it if 
all of the servers are in the same 'security domain' though.

An alternative is to designate a 'console server' which has the serial 
console of each box connected (a serial board is needed). You can 
selectively allow access to consoles based on account group membership on 
the console server.  You can afford to make the console server at least as 
secure as any box it is connected to.  Naturally root access to the 
console server is severely restricted.

Cheers,

Rob

-- 
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html
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From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 12:44:01 2009
From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:44:01 -0400
Subject: export amarok 1.4 podcast lists?
Message-ID: <1250685841.11439.133.camel@gont>

hey folks,

i've been using amarok for a number of years, but am now pretty much
ready to switch to something else (2.0 was been a big disappointment,
1.4 is more or less orphaned, and i run a gnome desktop on my main
laptop now, under which amarok has become increasingly unstable).  The
biggest impediment for me is exporting all the data i have stored in
amarok, especially the large numbero f podcasts and downloaded episodes.
Has anyone successfully exported podcasts from amarok to another player
(exaile, banshee, or rhythmbox, at the moment i'm not really all that
fussed about which i switch to since they're all unfamiliar)?  I would
love to hear about your experiences.

Thanks,

matt


-- 
Matt Price
matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 13:43:09 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:43:09 -0400
Subject: OT: Old Television Books
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908151845400.4017-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A86F641.5040800@utoronto.ca> <4A870019.2030502@dinamis.com> <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908151605520.9758@doublethink> <4A872C88.3030106@rogers.com> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908151845400.4017@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <20090819134309.GC31870@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 06:52:29PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> We still use a Commodore filing cabinet.  Yes, the same company.
> 
> When I got rid of an Amiga 2000, I contacted TPUG (lexographically close 
> to TLUG) and they were happy to find a home for it.
> 
> I imagine that they might be a good organization through which to outplace 
> old Commodore artifacts.
> 
> I was mostly on the other side of the divide: we have an Atari 800xl and 
> several Atari STs.  Atari and Amiga owners seemed to feel that there was a 
> conflict.

Not sure why.  Personally I didn't have any problem with the atari,
it simply wasn't interesting.  In terms of features and expandability
the atari was far beneath the amiga.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 13:48:49 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:48:49 -0400
Subject: FC-11 M2N-MX acpi (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908142356420.4017-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908142356420.4017@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <20090819134849.GD31870@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:57:33PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> a reason to not like ASUS motherboards?

You want to dislike something because they HAVE a linux acpi driver for
their specific hardware rather than all the ones that don't have drivers?

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 14:43:52 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:43:52 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181744400.2258-aZibgg63UJu44ywRPIzf9A@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908181518410.19396@castor.opentrend.net> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181744400.2258@imac2006.local>
Message-ID: <4A8C0FA8.9080307@rogers.com>

S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote:
>
> Never actually got around to implement it, though; but seems possible,
> what do you think?
>
Daisy chaining serial ports will result in long response times. Each
time you pass through a computer, the serial port has to receive the
entire character and then transmit it. Also, if any computer along the
chain is down, you won't be able to reach any beyond it. Also, how would
you select one computer from the rest?

--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 14:54:45 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:54:45 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908190134290.1377-VmJVFCIrpYC0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908181518410.19396@castor.opentrend.net> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181744400.2258@imac2006.local> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908190134290.1377@castor.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <4A8C1235.1070807@rogers.com>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote:
>
> [Proposed serial console daisy chain snipped]
>
>> Security just need to be setup in each machine to control who has
>> access to the serial port.
>
> Remember anyone with root on the box can 0wn the serial port and
> therefore the console of the adjoining box. They could easily brute
> force the root password or send Magic SysRq signals to the console.
>
>> Never actually got around to implement it, though; but seems
>> possible, what do you think?
>
> That approach does work from a technical POV. You should only do it if
> all of the servers are in the same 'security domain' though.
>
> An alternative is to designate a 'console server' which has the serial
> console of each box connected (a serial board is needed). You can
> selectively allow access to consoles based on account group membership
> on the console server. You can afford to make the console server at
> least as secure as any box it is connected to. Naturally root access
> to the console server is severely restricted.

It seems to me ssh is the better solution. If a computer is capable of
connecting via the serial port to the next computer, ssh would likely
work to.

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 16:10:45 2009
From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:10:45 -0400
Subject: five minutes to contribute your voice to the copyright consultation.
Message-ID: <a768be480908190910u3f1cb1f6ia270d31b313c145b@mail.gmail.com>

Step by step guide for sending your opinion to the Copyright Consultation.

It takes only five minutes!!!  Do it!

http://ow.ly/kAuD
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From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 16:26:16 2009
From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:26:16 -0400
Subject: Wiley E Coyote Admin
In-Reply-To: <4A8C1235.1070807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908181518410.19396@castor.opentrend.net> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181744400.2258@imac2006.local> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908190134290.1377@castor.opentrend.net> <4A8C1235.1070807@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4A8C27A8.90301@tmis.ca>


I have noticed a number of innovative ideas.
I thank you all.

We are not stuck or in a bad spot.
Just a place where the next step in remote administration is important.

Hindsight is perfect 20/20 and it is easy to say,
you should have gotten Product X from Acme Corporation 5 years ago.

Wiley E. Coyote too, would do better if he read the manual more closely.
He just reads the sysadmin manual enough to get into trouble :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQzzjBR9Etw



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From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 16:32:38 2009
From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (tug)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:32:38 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
Message-ID: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>

I have a server running at home (actually mandriva 2008 or maybe 2007 :S 
), I've migrated tasks away from it to another machine (Gentoo), which 
was originally my play box, but is now destined to become my server, and 
I'll install something sensible on my old server and play on that one.

The only function of the old server is now to provide the MySQL database 
backend for a phpbb installation that's running on my Gentoo box - I use 
the bb for single user personal work log / knowledge base. It also has 
some other data from old projects that I still want to keep, but don't 
have time to use at the moment.

I have been intending on migrate the database to the gentoo box, but had 
some problems copying the DB over - I assumed it would be trivial, but 
it wasn't... not investigated what the problem is yet (data but no 
permissions I think), but...

At TLUG meetings I've heard negative comments about MySQL, and that 
Postgres is a better option. If I've got to go through hoops (aka read 
manuals and look at log files) to get the database migrated, should I 
also consider switching databases?

I don't need to keep the db server up during migration.

Tug


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From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 16:48:24 2009
From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:48:24 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <4A8C2926.1010502-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090819124824.c21f748d.tleslie@tcn.net>

both are easy to export and import data, 
i used to use mysql a tonne
but changed to postgres 5-6 years ago, due to its store procedure language support.
I hate SP, but others on my team needed it.
(fortunetly c# support at the SP level is coming soon, so then i will be very happy).
but mysql is supposed to have decent sp language choice now (i heard).

i have heard one person say the mysql might have an edge on clustering,
and postgres maybe an edge still in language support,
but all in all, i generally think they are very close.
i went from mysql to postgres with almost no learning curve.

googling on eithers export/import ability should give you tonnes of results,
the only issue i have ever had is when you migrate data across versions of either,
especially with respect to SP stuff.

in postgres (and mysql should have same), you can do a text based with full insert
dump, that can then be imported back in, which is good for migration across versions,
or even DB's. 
there is a product called enterprise DB that you can trial, and depending on what features
you like, can even keep for free. I has a data migration process , i can't remember if
it migrates from mysql, it does from oracle. enterpriseDB, is just postgres, with some added
extras and commercial support and indemnity if you need it, it also has some clustering ability,etc.



-tl

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:32:38 -0400
tug <tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I have a server running at home (actually mandriva 2008 or maybe 2007 :S 
> ), I've migrated tasks away from it to another machine (Gentoo), which 
> was originally my play box, but is now destined to become my server, and 
> I'll install something sensible on my old server and play on that one.
> 
> The only function of the old server is now to provide the MySQL database 
> backend for a phpbb installation that's running on my Gentoo box - I use 
> the bb for single user personal work log / knowledge base. It also has 
> some other data from old projects that I still want to keep, but don't 
> have time to use at the moment.
> 
> I have been intending on migrate the database to the gentoo box, but had 
> some problems copying the DB over - I assumed it would be trivial, but 
> it wasn't... not investigated what the problem is yet (data but no 
> permissions I think), but...
> 
> At TLUG meetings I've heard negative comments about MySQL, and that 
> Postgres is a better option. If I've got to go through hoops (aka read 
> manuals and look at log files) to get the database migrated, should I 
> also consider switching databases?
> 
> I don't need to keep the db server up during migration.
> 
> Tug
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> 


-- 
ted leslie <tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 16:56:32 2009
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:56:32 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <4A8C2926.1010502-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0908190956m5104b564ia011643ccd4fb7a2@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 12:32 PM, tug<tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I have a server running at home (actually mandriva 2008 or maybe 2007 :S ),
> I've migrated tasks away from it to another machine (Gentoo), which was
> originally my play box, but is now destined to become my server, and I'll
> install something sensible on my old server and play on that one.
>
> The only function of the old server is now to provide the MySQL database
> backend for a phpbb installation that's running on my Gentoo box - I use the
> bb for single user personal work log / knowledge base. It also has some
> other data from old projects that I still want to keep, but don't have time
> to use at the moment.
>
> I have been intending on migrate the database to the gentoo box, but had
> some problems copying the DB over - I assumed it would be trivial, but it
> wasn't... not investigated what the problem is yet (data but no permissions
> I think), but...
>
> At TLUG meetings I've heard negative comments about MySQL, and that Postgres
> is a better option. If I've got to go through hoops (aka read manuals and
> look at log files) to get the database migrated, should I also consider
> switching databases?
>
> I don't need to keep the db server up during migration.

There is some understanding and tooling for this sort of thing:
http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Converting_from_other_Databases_to_PostgreSQL#MySQL

You should certainly do "test runs" to discover if there are any
notable "gotchas" that will result.
-- 
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
Stephen Leacock  - "I detest life-insurance agents: they always argue
that I shall some day die, which is not so." -
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/stephen_leacock.html
--
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From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 19:57:09 2009
From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:57:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <4A8C1235.1070807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908181518410.19396@castor.opentrend.net> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181744400.2258@imac2006.local> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908190134290.1377@castor.opentrend.net> <4A8C1235.1070807@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908191547470.22532@imac2006.local>

Just to clarify...

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, James Knott wrote:
> Daisy chaining serial ports will result in long response 
> times. Each time you pass through a computer, the serial port 
> has to receive the entire character and then transmit it.

No. I wasn't talking about daisy chaining serial port, but 
getting each computer to access next computer's console through 
serial port. For normal access each computer will be a server 
with its own network connection. So it is daisy-chaining console 
access, not the serial ports.

> Also, if any computer along the chain is down, you won't be 
> able to reach any beyond it.

Only if all those machine is down.

> Also, how would you select one computer from the rest?

Well, you connect to each computer through network connection, 
using TCP/IP. :-) Serial ports only to connect to next machine's 
console.

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, James Knott wrote:
> It seems to me ssh is the better solution. If a computer is 
> capable of connecting via the serial port to the next 
> computer, ssh would likely work to.

Not really. The serial port is to connect to console (both BIOS' 
and kernel's console). This and idea for relatively cheap "out 
of band" connection. There is many condition where the machine 
cannot be connected by ssh, but can be accessed through console, 
e.g. to control its booting, even reinstall OS, etc.

-- 
    ____  ____  ____  ____ (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo
   /___  /___/ /___/ /___      http://www.arifsaha.com/
  ____/ /     /   / ____/
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From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 20:08:58 2009
From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:08:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Ctrl-Alt-Keypad+/- do not zoom in latest Xorg
In-Reply-To: <4A89D3F1.10304-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca>  <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com>  <4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca>  <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A991@klsapp1.klssys.com>  <32f6a8880908171236ia52e6feo4036e5c40eef05@mail.gmail.com>
  <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A992@klsapp1.klssys.com>  <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908171627450.14819@imac2006.local> <d6d6637f0908171452k12fe0344jd9c7ad727dd6f5c5@mail.gmail.com> <4A89D3F1.10304@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908171836440.9283@vex.net>

I am using xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.6.1.901-1.fc11.i586.
Does anyone know how to regain use of "Ctrl-Alt-Keypad+/-"
for zooming on the screen?

There is no '/etc/X11/xorg.conf'.
I can regenerate 'xorg.conf' using 'Xorg -configure'.
I can add the 'Modes' line into the 'SubSection "Display"', but
the special keys still do not work.
The '/etc/X11/xorg.conf' is recognized as shown in '/var/log/Xorg.0.log'.

I know about 'xrandr', but I couldn't get that to work the same.


--
Eric B.
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 20:14:37 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:14:37 -0400
Subject: Ctrl-Alt-Keypad+/- do not zoom in latest Xorg
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908171836440.9283-Ja3L+HSX0kI@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com> <4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca> <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A991@klsapp1.klssys.com> <32f6a8880908171236ia52e6feo4036e5c40eef05@mail.gmail.com> <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A992@klsapp1.klssys.com> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908171627450.14819@imac2006.local> <d6d6637f0908171452k12fe0344jd9c7ad727dd6f5c5@mail.gmail.com> <4A89D3F1.10304@linuxcaffe.ca> <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908171836440.9283@vex.net>
Message-ID: <20090819201437.GE31870@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 04:08:58PM -0400, Eric Battersby wrote:
> I am using xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.6.1.901-1.fc11.i586.
> Does anyone know how to regain use of "Ctrl-Alt-Keypad+/-"
> for zooming on the screen?
>
> There is no '/etc/X11/xorg.conf'.
> I can regenerate 'xorg.conf' using 'Xorg -configure'.
> I can add the 'Modes' line into the 'SubSection "Display"', but
> the special keys still do not work.
> The '/etc/X11/xorg.conf' is recognized as shown in '/var/log/Xorg.0.log'.
>
> I know about 'xrandr', but I couldn't get that to work the same.

control-alt-backspace doens't kill X anymore either, so I guess many of
the old keystrokes have been removed.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 20:52:25 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:52:25 -0400
Subject: OT: Major (25%) savings on Thinkpads (today only)
Message-ID: <4A8C6609.7070107@alteeve.com>

I swore up and down that I'd never buy a /Lenovo/ Thinkpad again, and 
today I proved myself a hypocrite.

They've got a sale on that ends today where you get 25% off a laptop 
over $1,500 and free shipping.

I was going to get an ASUS B50A but I can't seem to find them 
anywhere... Even Supercom, whom I have access to through work, stopped 
carrying them. The promotion code is "CAP72HOURSALE".

I decided that my 3.5yo T43p is due for a replacement, so I got a shiny 
new T400s (or rather, will have in 3 weeks). Apparently it's new enough 
the Linux support isn't perfect, but I don't suspect it will be too long 
before the bugs are ironed out, and none seem to be show-stoppers.

I got:

ThinkPad T400s (3.9lbs!)
- Intel Core 2 Duo SP9400 processor (2.40GHz 1066MHz 6MBL2)
- Windows Vista Business 64 (I know...)
- 14.1WXGA+ LED B/L (1440x900)
- Intel GMA 4500MHD (I didn't want discreet graphics, preferring battery 
life)
- 2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 (1 DIMM) (has a second DIMM slot, will upgrade later)
- T400s UltraNav with Finger Print Reader (doesn't work in Linux atm)
- 120GB Hard Disk drive, 5400rpm 1.8" Low Halogen (will upgrade when 
SSDs mature a bit more)
- Intel Turbo Memory 1.6, 2GB (not sure about Linux support, but should 
improve battery life on platter HDDs)
- DVD Recordable, Ultrabay Slim
ExpressCard 34 Slot
T400s 6 cell Prismatic Battery (no 9-cell option [yet])
- Integrated Bluetooth PAN 2
- Intel WiFi Link 5300
- ThinkPlus 3 Year EasyServ Total for 1 Year EasyServ (I expect my 
laptops to last three years!)

They have the docking station now, but it's not on the system yet. I had 
to order it separately and the CSR was only able to take 10% off of 
that, which worked out to an extra ~$210.

All in all, this cost me $1,834.72 + the dock, saving me ~$811.35. 
That's quite the savings, if you're looking for a business laptop... My 
one warning though is; Don't expect even five minutes extension to the 
warranty. Lenovo sticks to the end of their warranty period like glue. 
My T43p's mainboard died 7 days after it's 3 year warranty expired and 
they wouldn't help me. I ended up buying an R-series mainboard to keep 
it going until I had the money to replace it.

Anyway, hope this might help someone and if not, sorry for the line noise.

Madi
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 21:16:16 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:16:16 -0400
Subject: OT: Major (25%) savings on Thinkpads (today only)
In-Reply-To: <4A8C6609.7070107-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C6609.7070107@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20090819211616.GF31870@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 04:52:25PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
> I swore up and down that I'd never buy a /Lenovo/ Thinkpad again, and  
> today I proved myself a hypocrite.
>
> They've got a sale on that ends today where you get 25% off a laptop  
> over $1,500 and free shipping.

Yeah I got my SL500 when they were 15% off in the spring, which made it
come to $950 or so, which is way too cheap to qualify for the 25% off.

> I was going to get an ASUS B50A but I can't seem to find them  
> anywhere... Even Supercom, whom I have access to through work, stopped  
> carrying them. The promotion code is "CAP72HOURSALE".
>
> I decided that my 3.5yo T43p is due for a replacement, so I got a shiny  
> new T400s (or rather, will have in 3 weeks). Apparently it's new enough  
> the Linux support isn't perfect, but I don't suspect it will be too long  
> before the bugs are ironed out, and none seem to be show-stoppers.
>
> I got:
>
> ThinkPad T400s (3.9lbs!)
> - Intel Core 2 Duo SP9400 processor (2.40GHz 1066MHz 6MBL2)

So low power use.  Good for battery life.

> - Windows Vista Business 64 (I know...)
> - 14.1WXGA+ LED B/L (1440x900)
> - Intel GMA 4500MHD (I didn't want discreet graphics, preferring battery  
> life)

I prefer decent video.

> - 2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 (1 DIMM) (has a second DIMM slot, will upgrade later)
> - T400s UltraNav with Finger Print Reader (doesn't work in Linux atm)

Actually it might, with a bit of work.

> - 120GB Hard Disk drive, 5400rpm 1.8" Low Halogen (will upgrade when  
> SSDs mature a bit more)
> - Intel Turbo Memory 1.6, 2GB (not sure about Linux support, but should  
> improve battery life on platter HDDs)

Almost certainly not, and I thought on most models turbo memory prevented
bluetooth support for some reason.  I suspect turbo memory is totally
useless.

> - DVD Recordable, Ultrabay Slim
> ExpressCard 34 Slot
> T400s 6 cell Prismatic Battery (no 9-cell option [yet])

Strange.  I thought 9cell was always an option.

> - Integrated Bluetooth PAN 2
> - Intel WiFi Link 5300

Very good linux support for that.

> - ThinkPlus 3 Year EasyServ Total for 1 Year EasyServ (I expect my  
> laptops to last three years!)
>
> They have the docking station now, but it's not on the system yet. I had  
> to order it separately and the CSR was only able to take 10% off of  
> that, which worked out to an extra ~$210.
>
> All in all, this cost me $1,834.72 + the dock, saving me ~$811.35.  
> That's quite the savings, if you're looking for a business laptop... My  
> one warning though is; Don't expect even five minutes extension to the  
> warranty. Lenovo sticks to the end of their warranty period like glue.  
> My T43p's mainboard died 7 days after it's 3 year warranty expired and  
> they wouldn't help me. I ended up buying an R-series mainboard to keep  
> it going until I had the money to replace it.
>
> Anyway, hope this might help someone and if not, sorry for the line noise.

I have managed to tweak the settings on my SL500 down to about 17W idle.
A small tweak to knotify reduced it by 2.5W by allowing the audio chip
to go the sleep when nothing was playing (knotify currently keeps the
audio device open after using it forever preventing sleep mode).

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 21:57:49 2009
From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:57:49 -0400
Subject: OT: Major (25%) savings on Thinkpads (today only)
In-Reply-To: <4A8C6609.7070107-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C6609.7070107@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <4A8C755D.2040704@utoronto.ca>

Madison Kelly wrote:
> I swore up and down that I'd never buy a /Lenovo/ Thinkpad again, and 
> today I proved myself a hypocrite.

Why?

> They've got a sale on that ends today where you get 25% off a laptop 
> over $1,500 and free shipping.
> 
> I was going to get an ASUS B50A but I can't seem to find them 
> anywhere... Even Supercom, whom I have access to through work, stopped 
> carrying them. The promotion code is "CAP72HOURSALE".
> 
> I decided that my 3.5yo T43p is due for a replacement, so I got a shiny 
> new T400s (or rather, will have in 3 weeks). Apparently it's new enough 
> the Linux support isn't perfect, but I don't suspect it will be too long 
> before the bugs are ironed out, and none seem to be show-stoppers.
> 
> I got:
> 
> ThinkPad T400s (3.9lbs!)
> - Intel Core 2 Duo SP9400 processor (2.40GHz 1066MHz 6MBL2)
> - Windows Vista Business 64 (I know...)

You can argue for a couple days and get a credit for Windows if you 
don't agree to the EULA and stop the setup process at that point.

It takes getting through to and being nice to a manager. Mention tied 
selling if they give you a hassle about how Windows is a part of the 
complete Thinkpad package -- it isn't, and claiming it is is illegal. I 
got a $75 credit from Lenovo on my T61 for Vista, and they didn't bother 
  asking me to send the serial # back either -- afaik it will still work 
if I try to setup windows.

In the end it all depends on how valuable your time is.

> - 14.1WXGA+ LED B/L (1440x900)
> - Intel GMA 4500MHD (I didn't want discreet graphics, preferring battery 
> life)

You'll probably find that the backlight (LED or not) does some funky 
stuff with that chip. Once you're booted it should be fine, and I think 
you can mess with acpi stuff for thinkpads in /etc to fix it permanently.

> - 2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 (1 DIMM) (has a second DIMM slot, will upgrade later)
> - T400s UltraNav with Finger Print Reader (doesn't work in Linux atm)
> - 120GB Hard Disk drive, 5400rpm 1.8" Low Halogen (will upgrade when 
> SSDs mature a bit more)
> - Intel Turbo Memory 1.6, 2GB (not sure about Linux support, but should 
> improve battery life on platter HDDs)

Friend with an SL300 (not available any more) says that it isn't usable 
by Linux. But that's fine, fast enough anyways :)

> - DVD Recordable, Ultrabay Slim
> ExpressCard 34 Slot

I think that's the one thing I haven't used at all on my T61, there's 
just nothing to plug in that I want. I guess some express card storage 
would be handy, but tbh, if they didn't offer the thing at all I 
wouldn't mind.

> T400s 6 cell Prismatic Battery (no 9-cell option [yet])
> - Integrated Bluetooth PAN 2

I was expecting a huge hassle with bluetooth, but 
Linux+Thinkpad+Bluetooth=fun! Worked out of the box.

> - Intel WiFi Link 5300
> - ThinkPlus 3 Year EasyServ Total for 1 Year EasyServ (I expect my 
> laptops to last three years!)
> 
> They have the docking station now, but it's not on the system yet. I had 
> to order it separately and the CSR was only able to take 10% off of 
> that, which worked out to an extra ~$210.
> 
> All in all, this cost me $1,834.72 + the dock, saving me ~$811.35. 
> That's quite the savings, if you're looking for a business laptop... My 
> one warning though is; Don't expect even five minutes extension to the 
> warranty. Lenovo sticks to the end of their warranty period like glue. 
> My T43p's mainboard died 7 days after it's 3 year warranty expired and 
> they wouldn't help me. I ended up buying an R-series mainboard to keep 
> it going until I had the money to replace it.
> 
> Anyway, hope this might help someone and if not, sorry for the line noise.

Seems like a good deal, I'm sold on Lenovo for a ~$1000 laptop. 
Definitely better hardware for the money than an Apple. And you can 
install OSX on the Thinkpad as well if you're a real die hard fan (who 
is also willing to risk incurring the wrath of Cupertino's legal team 
and their draconian policy that OSX can only be run on official Apple 
hardware).

Enjoy, let us know how the setup and install of your preferred Linux 
distribution goes!

Jamon
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 22:53:38 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:53:38 -0400
Subject: OT: Major (25%) savings on Thinkpads (today only)
In-Reply-To: <4A8C755D.2040704-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C6609.7070107@alteeve.com> <4A8C755D.2040704@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <4A8C8272.1070807@alteeve.com>

Jamon Camisso wrote:
> Madison Kelly wrote:
>> I swore up and down that I'd never buy a /Lenovo/ Thinkpad again, and 
>> today I proved myself a hypocrite.
> 
> Why?

The (IBM) T4* series had a problem where a very large number of the 
mainboards with discreet ATI GPUs would fail because of the BGA solder 
joints breaking. This was generally caused by lifting the laptop up by 
the right palm rest area. IBM/Lenovo never officially acknowledged this.

My T40 died because of this problem, and I got a T43p to replace it. 
Then, seven days after the 3 year warranty expired, the T43p died the 
same way. They wouldn't honour the warranty (fair enough) despite 
"unofficially" acknowledging a design flaw (not fair enough!).

In the end though, they're still the best built laptops I can find. Even 
ASUS, whom I *love*, don't really have a proper business line (read: 
reliability/durability over performance/bells and whistles).

>> They've got a sale on that ends today where you get 25% off a laptop 
>> over $1,500 and free shipping.
>>
>> I was going to get an ASUS B50A but I can't seem to find them 
>> anywhere... Even Supercom, whom I have access to through work, stopped 
>> carrying them. The promotion code is "CAP72HOURSALE".
>>
>> I decided that my 3.5yo T43p is due for a replacement, so I got a 
>> shiny new T400s (or rather, will have in 3 weeks). Apparently it's new 
>> enough the Linux support isn't perfect, but I don't suspect it will be 
>> too long before the bugs are ironed out, and none seem to be 
>> show-stoppers.
>>
>> I got:
>>
>> ThinkPad T400s (3.9lbs!)
>> - Intel Core 2 Duo SP9400 processor (2.40GHz 1066MHz 6MBL2)
>> - Windows Vista Business 64 (I know...)
> 
> You can argue for a couple days and get a credit for Windows if you 
> don't agree to the EULA and stop the setup process at that point.
> 
> It takes getting through to and being nice to a manager. Mention tied 
> selling if they give you a hassle about how Windows is a part of the 
> complete Thinkpad package -- it isn't, and claiming it is is illegal. I 
> got a $75 credit from Lenovo on my T61 for Vista, and they didn't bother 
>  asking me to send the serial # back either -- afaik it will still work 
> if I try to setup windows.
> 
> In the end it all depends on how valuable your time is.

I thought about that, and may well do that yet. However, I've got enough 
uses for Windows that I may leave it there as a dual boot option. 
Occasionally I need to access IE-only websites or run Windows-only 
software for work...

>> - 14.1WXGA+ LED B/L (1440x900)
>> - Intel GMA 4500MHD (I didn't want discreet graphics, preferring 
>> battery life)
> 
> You'll probably find that the backlight (LED or not) does some funky 
> stuff with that chip. Once you're booted it should be fine, and I think 
> you can mess with acpi stuff for thinkpads in /etc to fix it permanently.

"funky stuff"?

Apparently, a lot of ACPI events aren't (yet) picked up by the kernel.

>> - 2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 (1 DIMM) (has a second DIMM slot, will upgrade 
>> later)
>> - T400s UltraNav with Finger Print Reader (doesn't work in Linux atm)
>> - 120GB Hard Disk drive, 5400rpm 1.8" Low Halogen (will upgrade when 
>> SSDs mature a bit more)
>> - Intel Turbo Memory 1.6, 2GB (not sure about Linux support, but 
>> should improve battery life on platter HDDs)
> 
> Friend with an SL300 (not available any more) says that it isn't usable 
> by Linux. But that's fine, fast enough anyways :)

Well, it was a $50 option... Given that I had to put the order in today 
and was already distracted enough from work, I went for it. Maybe I'll 
play with it later.

>> - DVD Recordable, Ultrabay Slim
>> ExpressCard 34 Slot
> 
> I think that's the one thing I haven't used at all on my T61, there's 
> just nothing to plug in that I want. I guess some express card storage 
> would be handy, but tbh, if they didn't offer the thing at all I 
> wouldn't mind.

In my case, I'd originally planned to wait until USB3 was available on 
laptops before I bought. However, my current laptop has been running 
hotter and hotter and I've started getting video artifacting, so I 
decided to jump on this offer. So for me, I am expecting to use the 
ExpressCard slot for a USB3 card once they become available.

I *still* plan to get my backup program off the ground someday! :)

>> T400s 6 cell Prismatic Battery (no 9-cell option [yet])
>> - Integrated Bluetooth PAN 2
> 
> I was expecting a huge hassle with bluetooth, but 
> Linux+Thinkpad+Bluetooth=fun! Worked out of the box.

Apparently not... I heard the T400s model even has a GPS receiver in 
some versions, but the Canadian CSR hadn't heard of it. :(

>> - Intel WiFi Link 5300
>> - ThinkPlus 3 Year EasyServ Total for 1 Year EasyServ (I expect my 
>> laptops to last three years!)
>>
>> They have the docking station now, but it's not on the system yet. I 
>> had to order it separately and the CSR was only able to take 10% off 
>> of that, which worked out to an extra ~$210.
>>
>> All in all, this cost me $1,834.72 + the dock, saving me ~$811.35. 
>> That's quite the savings, if you're looking for a business laptop... 
>> My one warning though is; Don't expect even five minutes extension to 
>> the warranty. Lenovo sticks to the end of their warranty period like 
>> glue. My T43p's mainboard died 7 days after it's 3 year warranty 
>> expired and they wouldn't help me. I ended up buying an R-series 
>> mainboard to keep it going until I had the money to replace it.
>>
>> Anyway, hope this might help someone and if not, sorry for the line 
>> noise.
> 
> Seems like a good deal, I'm sold on Lenovo for a ~$1000 laptop. 
> Definitely better hardware for the money than an Apple. And you can 
> install OSX on the Thinkpad as well if you're a real die hard fan (who 
> is also willing to risk incurring the wrath of Cupertino's legal team 
> and their draconian policy that OSX can only be run on official Apple 
> hardware).
> 
> Enjoy, let us know how the setup and install of your preferred Linux 
> distribution goes!
> 
> Jamon

I'll let the list know how well Linux works on it once I get my grubby 
little hands on it! I expect there will be hassles, given how new this 
unit is. Same as when I first got my ASUS Eee PC1000h... Was a pain, but 
before long it was fully supported.

As for apple, I actually stopped into the Apple Store in the Eaton's 
Center yesterday. On top of being totally ignored (guess I don't look 
'hip' enough), none of their machines had a comfortable palm rest. 
They've all got ridiculously sharp corners. Combine that with their 
inaccessible guts, all having only 1280x800 (or there abouts) screens 
and I just couldn't bring myself to get one. I like a laptop I can tear 
apart myself. :)

Madi
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 19 23:00:58 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:00:58 -0400
Subject: OT: Major (25%) savings on Thinkpads (today only)
In-Reply-To: <20090819211616.GF31870-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C6609.7070107@alteeve.com> <20090819211616.GF31870@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4A8C842A.80600@alteeve.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 04:52:25PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
>> I swore up and down that I'd never buy a /Lenovo/ Thinkpad again, and  
>> today I proved myself a hypocrite.
>>
>> They've got a sale on that ends today where you get 25% off a laptop  
>> over $1,500 and free shipping.
> 
> Yeah I got my SL500 when they were 15% off in the spring, which made it
> come to $950 or so, which is way too cheap to qualify for the 25% off.

I think this deal is like that, too. Less than $1,500 is 15% off. Still 
pretty good.

>> I was going to get an ASUS B50A but I can't seem to find them  
>> anywhere... Even Supercom, whom I have access to through work, stopped  
>> carrying them. The promotion code is "CAP72HOURSALE".
>>
>> I decided that my 3.5yo T43p is due for a replacement, so I got a shiny  
>> new T400s (or rather, will have in 3 weeks). Apparently it's new enough  
>> the Linux support isn't perfect, but I don't suspect it will be too long  
>> before the bugs are ironed out, and none seem to be show-stoppers.
>>
>> I got:
>>
>> ThinkPad T400s (3.9lbs!)
>> - Intel Core 2 Duo SP9400 processor (2.40GHz 1066MHz 6MBL2)
> 
> So low power use.  Good for battery life.

Indeed. Besides, it is my work laptop - I play games on my home desktop. 
All I care about is code and, at most, watching flash videos. I am sure 
anything out there today can do that.

>> - Windows Vista Business 64 (I know...)
>> - 14.1WXGA+ LED B/L (1440x900)
>> - Intel GMA 4500MHD (I didn't want discreet graphics, preferring battery  
>> life)
> 
> I prefer decent video.

If I didn't have a dedicated game machine, I would agree completely. 
However, I don't even let compiz run on my laptop. Whatever buys me more 
coding time while on a battery...

>> - 2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 (1 DIMM) (has a second DIMM slot, will upgrade later)
>> - T400s UltraNav with Finger Print Reader (doesn't work in Linux atm)
> 
> Actually it might, with a bit of work.

Meh. I've got nothing on my laptop anyone would find very interesting... 
Save for maybe my somewhat unhealthily large collection of mermaid 
pictures. ;)

>> - 120GB Hard Disk drive, 5400rpm 1.8" Low Halogen (will upgrade when  
>> SSDs mature a bit more)
>> - Intel Turbo Memory 1.6, 2GB (not sure about Linux support, but should  
>> improve battery life on platter HDDs)
> 
> Almost certainly not, and I thought on most models turbo memory prevented
> bluetooth support for some reason.  I suspect turbo memory is totally
> useless.

Foo. Oh well, like I said to Jamon, I didn't have a lot of time to 
research it and it was $50... Maybe I'll find a creative way to use 
it... if I can access it at all.

>> - DVD Recordable, Ultrabay Slim
>> ExpressCard 34 Slot
>> T400s 6 cell Prismatic Battery (no 9-cell option [yet])
> 
> Strange.  I thought 9cell was always an option.

Apparently not on this model... They went out of their way to make it as 
small as possible.

>> - Integrated Bluetooth PAN 2
>> - Intel WiFi Link 5300
> 
> Very good linux support for that.

Woots! Another spur-of-the-moment upgrade... I think it was ~$20 over 
the 5100. I'm ashamed to say I don't even know the difference. ^_^;

>> - ThinkPlus 3 Year EasyServ Total for 1 Year EasyServ (I expect my  
>> laptops to last three years!)
>>
>> They have the docking station now, but it's not on the system yet. I had  
>> to order it separately and the CSR was only able to take 10% off of  
>> that, which worked out to an extra ~$210.
>>
>> All in all, this cost me $1,834.72 + the dock, saving me ~$811.35.  
>> That's quite the savings, if you're looking for a business laptop... My  
>> one warning though is; Don't expect even five minutes extension to the  
>> warranty. Lenovo sticks to the end of their warranty period like glue.  
>> My T43p's mainboard died 7 days after it's 3 year warranty expired and  
>> they wouldn't help me. I ended up buying an R-series mainboard to keep  
>> it going until I had the money to replace it.
>>
>> Anyway, hope this might help someone and if not, sorry for the line noise.
> 
> I have managed to tweak the settings on my SL500 down to about 17W idle.
> A small tweak to knotify reduced it by 2.5W by allowing the audio chip
> to go the sleep when nothing was playing (knotify currently keeps the
> audio device open after using it forever preventing sleep mode).

Oooh, did you keep notes?

Anything to improve battery life grabs my attention! :)

Madi
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From alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 02:34:38 2009
From: alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Kink)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:34:38 +0000
Subject: OT: Best laptop backpack?
Message-ID: <1133516822-1250735676-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-433060647-@bxe1079.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Hi All,

I'm looking for a new laptop backpack. I'm currently using a Lowepro laptop/camera bag, but I no longer use the camera compartment.

Ideally I'd want something with a sturdy laptop compartment (with proper padding) and at least another big section where I can put power supplies, HDD, gym clothes, etc.

The ideal backpack would last me 3-4 years, so I'm willing to shell out up to $150.

What are some of you guys using?

Regards,
Alex
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 02:45:35 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:45:35 -0400
Subject: OT: Best laptop backpack?
In-Reply-To: <1133516822-1250735676-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-433060647--0kAENzPV4IG6+1s8yt2eEObbz5fhSPodbBxjXNYs1vU@public.gmane.org>
References: <1133516822-1250735676-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-433060647-@bxe1079.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <4A8CB8CF.5010300@alteeve.com>

Alex Kink wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I'm looking for a new laptop backpack. I'm currently using a Lowepro laptop/camera bag, but I no longer use the camera compartment.
> 
> Ideally I'd want something with a sturdy laptop compartment (with proper padding) and at least another big section where I can put power supplies, HDD, gym clothes, etc.
> 
> The ideal backpack would last me 3-4 years, so I'm willing to shell out up to $150.
> 
> What are some of you guys using?
> 
> Regards,
> Alex

Personally, I've got the "Gigabyte" bag from MEC. It's the third one 
I've had in over ten years. The zippers are what eventually fail, but I 
tend to carry a lot of heavy equipment as well as my laptop (think 
tools, external storage carriers, numerous hard drives, etc), so I don't 
blame the bag.

I just checked, and it looks like they've changed the design from what 
I've got. However, I've never been disappointed in anything I've gotten 
at MEC. They've got different sizes, too. The Gigabyte is 30l, the 
"Megabyte" is 21l.

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442545303&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302886190&bmUID=1250736142795

Madi

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From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 03:12:50 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:12:50 -0400
Subject: OT: Best laptop backpack?
In-Reply-To: <1133516822-1250735676-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-433060647--0kAENzPV4IG6+1s8yt2eEObbz5fhSPodbBxjXNYs1vU@public.gmane.org>
References: <1133516822-1250735676-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-433060647-@bxe1079.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <4A8CBF32.7000309@telly.org>

Alex Kink wrote:
> I'm looking for a new laptop backpack. I'm currently using a Lowepro laptop/camera bag, but I no longer use the camera compartment.
>
> Ideally I'd want something with a sturdy laptop compartment (with proper padding) and at least another big section where I can put power supplies, HDD, gym clothes, etc.
>
> The ideal backpack would last me 3-4 years, so I'm willing to shell out up to $150.
>
> What are some of you guys using?
>   

Right now I have a "Backoffice" from Shaun Jackson Design
(http://www.sjdesign.com/) -- it's a unique design that can be a
backpack OR an over-the-shoulder bag ... and it opens to put a whole
desktop on your lap.

In the past I have also liked the designs and durability of "booq" packs
http://www.booqbags.com/

Than again, lately even some of the pedestrian Targus bags are looking
OK, and they're a fraction of the price.

- Evan

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From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 06:44:56 2009
From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:44:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: your weekly kernel newbieness
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0908200244000.7699@localhost>


http://cli.gs/A8G1s2

rday
--

========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day                               Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

        Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry.

Web page:                                          http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter:                                       http://twitter.com/rpjday
========================================================================
--
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How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 09:27:00 2009
From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 05:27:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Ctrl-Alt-Keypad+/- do not zoom in latest Xorg
In-Reply-To: <20090819201437.GE31870-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A990@klsapp1.klssys.com> <4A897A04.3050206@tmis.ca> <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A991@klsapp1.klssys.com> <32f6a8880908171236ia52e6feo4036e5c40eef05@mail.gmail.com>
 <E00B9EBD1532EF4EABA3C51B190BA6150358C068A992@klsapp1.klssys.com> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908171627450.14819@imac2006.local> <d6d6637f0908171452k12fe0344jd9c7ad727dd6f5c5@mail.gmail.com> <4A89D3F1.10304@linuxcaffe.ca> <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908171836440.9283@vex.net>
 <20090819201437.GE31870@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908200352510.9283@vex.net>

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:14:37 -0400
> From: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>
> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Ctrl-Alt-Keypad+/- do not zoom in latest Xorg
> 
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 04:08:58PM -0400, Eric Battersby wrote:
>> I am using xorg-x11-server-Xorg-1.6.1.901-1.fc11.i586.
>> Does anyone know how to regain use of "Ctrl-Alt-Keypad+/-"
>> for zooming on the screen?
>>
>> There is no '/etc/X11/xorg.conf'.
>> I can regenerate 'xorg.conf' using 'Xorg -configure'.
>> I can add the 'Modes' line into the 'SubSection "Display"', but
>> the special keys still do not work.
>> The '/etc/X11/xorg.conf' is recognized as shown in '/var/log/Xorg.0.log'.
>>
>> I know about 'xrandr', but I couldn't get that to work the same.
>
> control-alt-backspace doens't kill X anymore either, so I guess many of
> the old keystrokes have been removed.

"Ctrl-Alt-Backspace" works for me!  I use it all the time to kill X.
I didn't think that these keystrokes were removed on purpose,
but then I found this:
   https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14688

   When xrandr 1.2 was added, the support for ctrl-alt-+/- shortcut for
   cycling between the available modes was dropped.
   ...
   (comment)
   I'd like to say I think the loss of the simple, fast means to zoom by
   the AKP+/- is silly and annoying. It was there, it worked, why remove
   it? Did it actually cause a problem, or is this just a case of "it is
   old and not the new hotness, so lets remove it!" If it really caused a
   problem then that problem should be described here so that people can
   understand the issue.

   If the distro vendor want to replace that functionality, let the
   distro vendor add DontZoom to xorg.conf and set up the alternative.

That's exactly right!
There is NO good reason to remove a feature that has been present
for 15y.  If you really want to turn it off, use "Option DontZoom".
These kinds of policy changes are aggravating.

--
Eric B.

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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 13:37:14 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:37:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <4A8C2926.1010502-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, tug wrote:

> At TLUG meetings I've heard negative comments about MySQL, and that Postgres 
> is a better option. If I've got to go through hoops (aka read manuals and 
> look at log files) to get the database migrated, should I also consider 
> switching databases?

MySQL vs Postgres is like vi vs Emacs or Linux vs FreeBSD.

The reality tends to show that each has advantages over the other 
depending on the workload.

Even if you found that Postgres was faster than MySQL for your application 
it is unlikely that the difference would be enough for your to care. 
Under low load the bottleneck probably isn't the DB at all.

OTOH the best way to learn about an app is to use it, so if you want to 
get experience with Postgres, then by all meants switch over.

Cheers,

Rob

-- 
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 13:59:34 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:59:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <4A8C1235.1070807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908181518410.19396@castor.opentrend.net> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181744400.2258@imac2006.local> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908190134290.1377@castor.opentrend.net> <4A8C1235.1070807@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908200954210.1377@castor.opentrend.net>

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, James Knott wrote:

> It seems to me ssh is the better solution. If a computer is capable of
> connecting via the serial port to the next computer, ssh would likely
> work to.

Hi James.  The serial console is for precisely those situation in which 
ssh is not sufficient.  Use of a serial console may mean the sysadmin 
doesn't have to walk (or drive, or fly) to the server to recover access 
when it is off the network for some reason.

Cheers,

Rob

-- 
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html
--
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 15:03:23 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:03:23 -0400
Subject: OT: Major (25%) savings on Thinkpads (today only)
In-Reply-To: <4A8C842A.80600-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C6609.7070107@alteeve.com> <20090819211616.GF31870@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A8C842A.80600@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20090820150323.GG31870@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 07:00:58PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
> If I didn't have a dedicated game machine, I would agree completely.  
> However, I don't even let compiz run on my laptop. Whatever buys me more  
> coding time while on a battery...

Sure.  I just like dedicated video ram and such.  Nvidia makes pretty
power efficient chips these days.  The 105M isn't going to be impresive
for games either, but it beats the intel. :)

> Meh. I've got nothing on my laptop anyone would find very interesting...  
> Save for maybe my somewhat unhealthily large collection of mermaid  
> pictures. ;)

All it does is save you typing your password.  It doesn't make it more
secure really.  Just convinient.

> Foo. Oh well, like I said to Jamon, I didn't have a lot of time to  
> research it and it was $50... Maybe I'll find a creative way to use  
> it... if I can access it at all.

Who knows.  It is only 2GB.  A 2GB SD card in a card reader might be
just as useful and a lot cheaper.

> Apparently not on this model... They went out of their way to make it as  
> small as possible.

Well the SL500 I have is anything but small.

> Woots! Another spur-of-the-moment upgrade... I think it was ~$20 over  
> the 5100. I'm ashamed to say I don't even know the difference. ^_^;

Both the 5100 and 5300 have amazingly good linux support.  The 5300 can
do faster speeds on 802.11n than the 5100, but that's the only difference.
The non-intel option on the other hand tends to be a major pain in linux.

>> I have managed to tweak the settings on my SL500 down to about 17W idle.
>> A small tweak to knotify reduced it by 2.5W by allowing the audio chip
>> to go the sleep when nothing was playing (knotify currently keeps the
>> audio device open after using it forever preventing sleep mode).
>
> Oooh, did you keep notes?

Yeah I know what I did.  Play with 'powertop' and do what it suggests,
then add the module option to enable sleep mode for the audio chip when
not in use (saves about 2.5W for some reason).  The knotify changes was
to remove the '//' from two lines that were in the code but commented out.
For some reason someone thought it was better to keep one audio connection
open at all times rather than reopen it on demand, because clearly your
kde should be going bing at you all the time.

> Anything to improve battery life grabs my attention! :)

Well I currently get about 2.5 hours with the brightness turned down a
bit (and I don't have the LED backlight) on my SL500 with a 6cell battery.

That is with SATA link power management enabled, USB power management
enabled, low screen brightness, ext3 commit timer increased to something
like 30s rather than the default 5s (as powertop recommended), kernel
with NO_HZ enabled (powertop clearly shows how many wakeups your
system is getting and who causes them, which is how I found the audio
chip/knotify issue), cpu running at 800MHz (automaticly managed by the
frequency stuff).

-- 
Len Sorensen
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 15:45:48 2009
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:45:48 -0400
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908200954210.1377-VmJVFCIrpYC0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908181518410.19396@castor.opentrend.net> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181744400.2258@imac2006.local> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908190134290.1377@castor.opentrend.net> <4A8C1235.1070807@rogers.com> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908200954210.1377@castor.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <4A8D6FAC.7040503@rogers.com>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, James Knott wrote:
>
>> It seems to me ssh is the better solution. If a computer is capable of
>> connecting via the serial port to the next computer, ssh would likely
>> work to.
>
> Hi James.  The serial console is for precisely those situation in
> which ssh is not sufficient.  Use of a serial console may mean the
> sysadmin doesn't have to walk (or drive, or fly) to the server to
> recover access when it is off the network for some reason.
>

Having worked with minicomputers for many years, I'm well aware of the
advantages.  However, my comments were directed at the method mentioned
in the post I replied to.  It struck me as a bit of a Rube Goldbergian
solution.
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From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 16:14:52 2009
From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddy mills)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:14:52 -0400
Subject: Best laptop backpack
In-Reply-To: <4A8CBF32.7000309-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1133516822-1250735676-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-433060647-@bxe1079.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <4A8CBF32.7000309@telly.org>
Message-ID: <4A8D767C.8010306@tmis.ca>

http://www.swissgear.eu/ecproduct_detail.asp?ID=3225&CatID=&sCatID=1146675&ssCatID=1146832

For many years I used to wear good expedition packs around and put 
everything but the kitchen sink into them.

After 15 years, it started to compress some vertebra.
Then I went with the smaller packs.

I decided there might be something to this 'Less is More' philosophy.
For the last 3 years I use a Swiss Gear backpack.

Will last 2 years or so under hard use.
$39 with a Yonge St special.




Evan Leibovitch wrote:
> Alex Kink wrote:
>> I'm looking for a new laptop backpack. I'm currently using a Lowepro laptop/camera bag, but I no longer use the camera compartment.
>>
>> Ideally I'd want something with a sturdy laptop compartment (with proper padding) and at least another big section where I can put power supplies, HDD, gym clothes, etc.
>>
>> The ideal backpack would last me 3-4 years, so I'm willing to shell out up to $150.
>>
>> What are some of you guys using?
>>   
> 
> Right now I have a "Backoffice" from Shaun Jackson Design
> (http://www.sjdesign.com/) -- it's a unique design that can be a
> backpack OR an over-the-shoulder bag ... and it opens to put a whole
> desktop on your lap.
> 
> In the past I have also liked the designs and durability of "booq" packs
> http://www.booqbags.com/
> 
> Than again, lately even some of the pedestrian Targus bags are looking
> OK, and they're a fraction of the price.
> 
> - Evan
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 16:22:52 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:22:52 -0400
Subject: OT: Abbott & Costello at future shop
Message-ID: <4A8D785C.5060704@telly.org>

*There are probably some on this list who still understand the rhythm of
the dialogue below.
For those who aren't, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sShMA85pv8M


*

 */ABBOTT: /*/Hello this is Future Shop. Can I help you?*

COSTELLO: *Thanks I'm setting up an office in my den and I'm thinking
about buying a computer. 
*
ABBOTT: *Mac?*

COSTELLO: *No, the name's Lou.
*
ABBOTT: *Your computer?
*
COSTELLO*: I don't own a computer. I want to buy one.*

ABBOTT: *Mac?
*
COSTELLO: *I told you, my name's Lou.
*
ABBOTT: *What about Windows? 
*
COSTELLO: *Why? Will it get stuffy in here?
*
ABBOTT: *Do you want a computer with Windows?
*
COSTELLO: *I don't know. What will I see when I look at the windows?*

ABBOTT: *Wallpaper.
*
COSTELLO: *Never mind the windows. I need a computer and software.* 

ABBOTT: *Software for Windows?
*
COSTELLO: *No. On the computer! I need something I can use to write
proposals, track expenses and run my business. What do you have?*

ABBOTT: *Office.*

COSTELLO: *Yeah, for my office. Can you recommend anything?* 

ABBOTT: *I just did.*

COSTELLO: *You just did what?
*
ABBOTT: *Recommend something.
*
COSTELLO: *You recommended something?
*
ABBOTT: *Yes.
*
COSTELLO: *For my office?
*
ABBOTT: *Yes.
*
COSTELLO: *OK, what did you recommend for my office?
*
ABBOTT: *Office.
*
COSTELLO: *Yes, for my office!
*
ABBOTT: *I recommend Office with Windows.
*
COSTELLO: *I already have an office with windows! OK, let's just say I'm
sitting at my computer and I want to type a proposal. What do I need? *

ABBOTT: *Word.
*
COSTELLO: *What word?
*
ABBOTT: *Word in Office.
*
COSTELLO: *The only word in office is office.*

ABBOTT: *The Word in Office for Windows.*

COSTELLO: *Which word in office for windows?* 

ABBOTT: *The Word you get when you click the blue 'W'.
*
COSTELLO: *I'm going to click your blue 'w' if you don't start with some
straight answers. What about financial bookkeeping? You have anything I
can track my money with?* 

ABBOTT: *Money.
*
COSTELLO: *That's right. What do you have?
*
ABBOTT: *Money.
*
COSTELLO: *I need money to track my money?
*
ABBOTT: *It comes bundled with your computer.
*
COSTELLO: *What's bundled with my computer?* 

ABBOTT: *Money.
*
COSTELLO: *Money comes with my computer?
*
ABBOTT: *Yes. No extra charge.
*
COSTELLO: *I get a bundle of money with my computer? How much?
*
ABBOTT: *One copy.
*
COSTELLO: *Isn't it illegal to copy money?* 

ABBOTT: *Microsoft gave us a license to copy Money.
*
COSTELLO: *They can give you a license to copy money?
*
ABBOTT: *Why not? THEY OWN IT!*

(A few days later)

ABBOTT: *Hello, this is Future Shop. Can I help you?* 

COSTELLO: *How do I turn my computer off?
*
ABBOTT: *Click on 'START'............./


 

 

 

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From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 16:35:33 2009
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:35:33 -0400
Subject: OT: Abbott & Costello at future shop
In-Reply-To: <4A8D785C.5060704-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8D785C.5060704@telly.org>
Message-ID: <4A8D7B55.3050806@alteeve.com>

WHEE!!! Fun with MS naming conventions!

Well Done! :)

Favorite part:

Evan Leibovitch wrote:

> ABBOTT: *Microsoft gave us a license to copy Money.
> *
> COSTELLO: *They can give you a license to copy money?
> *
> ABBOTT: *Why not? THEY OWN IT!*
> 

They Only Wish! :P

Lance F. Squire
--
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 16:49:14 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:49:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Does such a system exist?
In-Reply-To: <4A8D6FAC.7040503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8971DE.3010006@tmis.ca> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908181518410.19396@castor.opentrend.net> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0908181744400.2258@imac2006.local> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908190134290.1377@castor.opentrend.net> <4A8C1235.1070807@rogers.com>
 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908200954210.1377@castor.opentrend.net> <4A8D6FAC.7040503@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908201247341.1377@castor.opentrend.net>

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009, James Knott wrote:

> Having worked with minicomputers for many years, I'm well aware of the
> advantages.  However, my comments were directed at the method mentioned
> in the post I replied to.  It struck me as a bit of a Rube Goldbergian
> solution.

Perhaps there has been some misunderstanding then.  The console server 
solution is no more complex than it needs to be to achieve secure out of 
band communication.

Cheers,

Rob

-- 
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
Projected IPv4 exhaustion: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html
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From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 18:36:15 2009
From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:36:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: =?utf-8?b?W09UfQ==?= Rogers: Very Loud Volumes for Commercials
References: <4A849B4D.6050707@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20090820T201322-916@post.gmane.org>

The keywords to look out for are "dynamic compressor". This is a software or
hardware device which compresses the dynamic range of all programs. It is not so
good towards high fidelity in a home theater but it will save the day if you
have commercials blaring into the most unexpected and unpleasant moments of a
program. The normal answer is, to buy the edited copy which has no commercials
and the sound adjusted. 

But most modern HD boxes and even many TVs have the dynamic compression option
in the sound menus somewhere (sometimes it is called something else - do not
confuse it with "wide" stereo settings). I know that Rogers boxes have this in
the sound menu somewhere under "volume range" which can be selected between
normal and two more settings. One is narrow or so and actually means dynamic
compression.

In a nutshell dynamic compression will reduce the dynamic range of sounds from a
normal 45dB-ish in normal TV to 20-30dB. In HDTV it must work much harder and
reduce from 100dB to 20-30dB, often with unsatisfactory results. Turning d.c. on
is almost mandatory in TVs placed in noisy public places and I wish the PA
systems on TTC and other public places where it is really important to
understand what is being said would know about this.

Studio reprocessing of programs often applies d.c. of some kind, especially when
the original program was mixed by some ham-hand or deliberately tweaked to
"accommodate" advertising. This often requires several seconds of delay for
real-time processing, to avoid volume jumps. MythTV and such likely do this and
it works but as others have reported getting rid of what was implemented in a
well-proven way in a studio is very hard.

In my experience programs meant to be broadcast over cable or air with ads
"added in" have the sound levels deliberately reduced. Most original programming
comes mixed and set up for -3dB to -6dB audio, to allow for peaks (most
professional equipment, like Beta, DV and SVHS players have more than 10dB
headroom, i.e. +10dB signals won't distort). Lower sound setup settings are not
used because subsequent amplification would bring the background noise up into
hearing range and cause the program to appear of lower quality. So the studio
techs are explicitly told to lower the sound setup on the program deliberately
to -10dB or even -15dB to accommodate the advertising. This is not nice. On many
programs mixed like this one notices that one has to increase the volume quite a
bit to hear normally and that background hiss is somewhat noticeable (not on
digital programs though, that's one of the tricks digital programming has,
hiding the noise completely). As expected, the inserted ad sequences are
ear-ripping, often a full 20dB (10 times) louder than the program material and
already dynamically compressed and pre-distorted. On a normal TV this will
overdrive the speakers and it will sound buzzingly loud. In a home cinema
setting it could wake the dead and break windows. It could also destroy sub-spec
speakers and shakers if left to go on long enough unsupervised.

What was common practice for perhaps 30-40 years in TV and radio advertising
will now have to go back to less aggressive settings because home theatre owners
will not react positively to thunderous house-shaking advertising, as the
original poster noticed. So, again, the "best" solution is to get a recorded and
re-mixed copy and watch that. Complaining will not help much. Stations got away
with stuffing advertising into anything and charging premium prices for them on
top of that. One of these things will have to go, by legislation. Either premium
priced programming with no ads, or low cost with ads, but with technical
standards which are acceptable for the equipment in use.

  Peter (electronic tech)


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From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 18:41:02 2009
From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:41:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: first job/interview/evaluation in Canada ?
Message-ID: <loom.20090820T203625-669@post.gmane.org>

My time here is about up, and I would like to have the opportunity to do some
informal (or less informal) work tests and evaluations. I am a good all-round
man with strong hardware skills, embedded technology, electronic technician and
PC technician, system programmer and application programmer with over 15 years
of Linux experience and some BSD. I do not know how to go about netting a few
personal interviews and/or evaluations. Any suggestions about where and how to
ask ? Note that I am doing the same along the hardware/electronic technician
line and I have that pretty much in hand.

thanks,

  Peter


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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 20 19:03:43 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:03:43 -0400
Subject: USB Doesn't Work During PXE Boot With Dell Dimension
 5150 BIOS A07
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908161632500.10090-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A886B1A.3010001@dinamis.com> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908161632500.10090@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <4A8D9E0F.4060404@dinamis.com>

On 16/08/09 04:39 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> Thanks for that tale!
> 
> I hope Dell figures out what they've screwed up.

They have been silent since just before I posted. Before that, they
would call me to tell me that they called and that someone else would
call tomorrow.

> Is there a BIOS option to make a USB keyboard and looking like a
> regular keyboard?  I seem to remember those existing in some BIOS
> setup pages but disguised with an unclear description ("USB Legacy
> Support").

There is no such option in the BIOS.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
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From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 13:20:11 2009
From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (tug)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:20:11 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377-VmJVFCIrpYC0CtQDJS5xOuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>
Message-ID: <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, tug wrote:
>
>> At TLUG meetings I've heard negative comments about MySQL, and that 
>> Postgres is a better option. If I've got to go through hoops (aka 
>> read manuals and look at log files) to get the database migrated, 
>> should I also consider switching databases?
>
> MySQL vs Postgres is like vi vs Emacs or Linux vs FreeBSD.
>
> The reality tends to show that each has advantages over the other 
> depending on the workload.
>
> Even if you found that Postgres was faster than MySQL for your 
> application it is unlikely that the difference would be enough for 
> your to care. Under low load the bottleneck probably isn't the DB at all.
>
> OTOH the best way to learn about an app is to use it, so if you want 
> to get experience with Postgres, then by all meants switch over.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rob
>
Thanks for the responses... I was worried about backing the wrong 
(unmaintained) horse... I just use a database as a place to store data, 
and don't really care which (open source) - INSERT, UPDATE, SELECT and 
DELETE are all I use.

If ever I develop a prototype killer app, I will be sure to consult a 
database expert :)

Tug
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From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 13:37:57 2009
From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:37:57 -0300
Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself...
Message-ID: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi people,
I'm new in the list and would like to introduce myself.

My name is Marcelo Cavalcante, aka kalib, and I'm 23. I'm from Brazil.

I do work with Linux and Free Software since 2005 and for these years I'm
always acting as a free software militant. Always working with the local
community in events, workshops, installfests, etc.. I'm a Archlinux Brazil
Developers Team member and KDE Brazil Member. I'm also a founder of a local
free software community called Tux-CE.

Well, I think you guys must be confused.. Why am I trying to participate in
a canadian free software community if I do live in Brazil? o.O

I can explain.. It's because I always have been active in the local
community and in 2007 I visited Toronto, where I lived for 7 months. I came
back to finish my university. I really loved your country and city. In ~2
years ( I guess) I'll be done with my university and I have plans to go live
in Toronto for some years.

That's why..

I hope you guys don't see a problem on this.. :/

And I really hope I can participate and help the list.

Best regards,

---

-  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
- /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
-  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
- TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
- Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
- KDE Brasil Member
- http://www.marcelocavalcante.net
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 14:03:46 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:03:46 -0400
Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself...
In-Reply-To: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8EA942.8010609@alteeve.com>

Marcelo Cavalcante wrote:
> Hi people,
> 
> I'm new in the list and would like to introduce myself.
> 
> My name is Marcelo Cavalcante, aka kalib, and I'm 23. I'm from Brazil.
> 
> I do work with Linux and Free Software since 2005 and for these years 
> I'm always acting as a free software militant. Always working with the 
> local community in events, workshops, installfests, etc.. I'm a 
> Archlinux Brazil Developers Team member and KDE Brazil Member. I'm also 
> a founder of a local free software community called Tux-CE.
> 
> Well, I think you guys must be confused.. Why am I trying to participate 
> in a canadian free software community if I do live in Brazil? o.O
> 
> I can explain.. It's because I always have been active in the local 
> community and in 2007 I visited Toronto, where I lived for 7 months. I 
> came back to finish my university. I really loved your country and city. 
> In ~2 years ( I guess) I'll be done with my university and I have plans 
> to go live in Toronto for some years.
> 
> That's why..
> 
> I hope you guys don't see a problem on this.. :/
> 
> And I really hope I can participate and help the list.
> 
> Best regards,

Welcome (back)!

   Personally, I don't see a problem at all with people being outside 
Toronto being on this list.

Cheers!

Madi
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 14:05:44 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:05:44 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <4A8E9F0B.8060006-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net> <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com>

tug wrote:
> Robert Brockway wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, tug wrote:
>>
>>> At TLUG meetings I've heard negative comments about MySQL, and that 
>>> Postgres is a better option. If I've got to go through hoops (aka 
>>> read manuals and look at log files) to get the database migrated, 
>>> should I also consider switching databases?
>>
>> MySQL vs Postgres is like vi vs Emacs or Linux vs FreeBSD.
>>
>> The reality tends to show that each has advantages over the other 
>> depending on the workload.
>>
>> Even if you found that Postgres was faster than MySQL for your 
>> application it is unlikely that the difference would be enough for 
>> your to care. Under low load the bottleneck probably isn't the DB at all.
>>
>> OTOH the best way to learn about an app is to use it, so if you want 
>> to get experience with Postgres, then by all meants switch over.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Rob
>>
> Thanks for the responses... I was worried about backing the wrong 
> (unmaintained) horse... I just use a database as a place to store data, 
> and don't really care which (open source) - INSERT, UPDATE, SELECT and 
> DELETE are all I use.
> 
> If ever I develop a prototype killer app, I will be sure to consult a 
> database expert :)
> 
> Tug

For what you're doing, I don't think one is really better than the other.

I general though; I've come to see the differences as:

MySQL; Faster, More features
PostgreSQL; More Robust/Reliable, More compliant to the SQL standards.

Madi
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 14:22:27 2009
From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:22:27 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <4A8EA9B8.5080204-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>
	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>
	 <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <491f66a50908210722k5f3ef649u2ee779ac6a0e5bed@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> tug wrote:
>
>> Robert Brockway wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, tug wrote:
>>>
>>>  At TLUG meetings I've heard negative comments about MySQL, and that
>>>> Postgres is a better option. If I've got to go through hoops (aka read
>>>> manuals and look at log files) to get the database migrated, should I also
>>>> consider switching databases?
>>>>
>>>
>>> MySQL vs Postgres is like vi vs Emacs or Linux vs FreeBSD.
>>>
>>> The reality tends to show that each has advantages over the other
>>> depending on the workload.
>>>
>>> Even if you found that Postgres was faster than MySQL for your
>>> application it is unlikely that the difference would be enough for your to
>>> care. Under low load the bottleneck probably isn't the DB at all.
>>>
>>> OTOH the best way to learn about an app is to use it, so if you want to
>>> get experience with Postgres, then by all meants switch over.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>  Thanks for the responses... I was worried about backing the wrong
>> (unmaintained) horse... I just use a database as a place to store data, and
>> don't really care which (open source) - INSERT, UPDATE, SELECT and DELETE
>> are all I use.
>>
>> If ever I develop a prototype killer app, I will be sure to consult a
>> database expert :)
>>
>> Tug
>>
>
> For what you're doing, I don't think one is really better than the other.
>

My opinion :

MySQL, strange license... questionable SQL (you can insert a 10 char string
into a 5 char field), prone to data loss.

Postgresql bsd license, much higher throughput, very difficult to lose data.
( I have had a customer pull the fiber out of a fiber channel and they
didn't lose any data.)

Dave
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From meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 15:17:24 2009
From: meng-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (meng)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:17:24 -0400
Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself...
Message-ID: <958160ccd015dfa9acb9cf43991f3b77@teksavvy.com>


-----Original message-----
From: Marcelo Cavalcante kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 08:37:57 -0400
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: [TLUG] Introducing myself...

> Hi people,
> I'm new in the list and would like to introduce myself.
> 
> My name is Marcelo Cavalcante, aka kalib, and I'm 23. I'm from Brazil.
> 
> I do work with Linux and Free Software since 2005 and for these years I'm
> always acting as a free software militant. Always working with the local
> community in events, workshops, installfests, etc.. I'm a Archlinux Brazil
> Developers Team member and KDE Brazil Member. I'm also a founder of a local
> free software community called Tux-CE.
> 
> Well, I think you guys must be confused.. Why am I trying to participate in
> a canadian free software community if I do live in Brazil? o.O
> 
> I can explain.. It's because I always have been active in the local
> community and in 2007 I visited Toronto, where I lived for 7 months. I came
> back to finish my university. I really loved your country and city. In ~2
> years ( I guess) I'll be done with my university and I have plans to go live
> in Toronto for some years.
> 
> That's why..
> 
> I hope you guys don't see a problem on this.. :/

Welcome. I believe that there is at least one person from/in China among other countries on this list.

Meng

> 
> And I really hope I can participate and help the list.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> ---
> 
> -  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
> - /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
> -  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
> - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
> - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
> - KDE Brasil Member
> - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net
> 
> 
--
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 15:39:58 2009
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:39:58 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <4A8EA9B8.5080204-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>
	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>
	 <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Madison Kelly<linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> For what you're doing, I don't think one is really better than the other.
>
> I general though; I've come to see the differences as:
>
> MySQL; Faster, More features
> PostgreSQL; More Robust/Reliable, More compliant to the SQL standards.

MySQL *used* to be consistently faster, back about 8 years ago, but if
you're using any of the more modern storage engines, it's not obvious
that this is still the case.  There's a real paucity of good
benchmarks.

As for "more features," that hasn't ever been *remotely* close to
being the case.

MySQL(tm) was created as the "hacking on" of an SQL parser to a B-tree
implementation and has always been feature-impoverished.

In contrast, Postgres was a research project into experimental
database features, so that it *began* its life with stuff that other
DBs don't commonly have, such as the rules system.  See
<http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/rules.html> which
references the relevant theoretical papers from the 1980s.

Give special note to:
 - The POSTGRES data model
 - The case for partial indexes
 - On Rules, Procedures, Caching and Views in Database Systems

These were presented as research in the '80s and early '90s; they were
part of the implementation long before MySQL(tm) existed.
-- 
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
Mike Ditka  - "If God had wanted man to play soccer, he wouldn't have
given us arms." -
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mike_ditka.html
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 15:55:40 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:55:40 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>	 <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com> <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com>

Christopher Browne wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Madison Kelly<linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> For what you're doing, I don't think one is really better than the other.
>>
>> I general though; I've come to see the differences as:
>>
>> MySQL; Faster, More features
>> PostgreSQL; More Robust/Reliable, More compliant to the SQL standards.
> 
> MySQL *used* to be consistently faster, back about 8 years ago, but if
> you're using any of the more modern storage engines, it's not obvious
> that this is still the case.  There's a real paucity of good
> benchmarks.
> 
> As for "more features," that hasn't ever been *remotely* close to
> being the case.
> 
> MySQL(tm) was created as the "hacking on" of an SQL parser to a B-tree
> implementation and has always been feature-impoverished.
> 
> In contrast, Postgres was a research project into experimental
> database features, so that it *began* its life with stuff that other
> DBs don't commonly have, such as the rules system.  See
> <http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/rules.html> which
> references the relevant theoretical papers from the 1980s.
> 
> Give special note to:
>  - The POSTGRES data model
>  - The case for partial indexes
>  - On Rules, Procedures, Caching and Views in Database Systems
> 
> These were presented as research in the '80s and early '90s; they were
> part of the implementation long before MySQL(tm) existed.

Perhaps a neatral view-point comparison on SQL engines would make a good 
TLUG talk?

Madi
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 16:02:52 2009
From: chris-E7bvbYbpR6jSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 12:02:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <4A8EC37C.6070401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>  <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>  <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com> <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081@mail.gmail.com> <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908211201340.4344@localhost>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009, Madison Kelly wrote:

> Christopher Browne wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Madison Kelly<linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > > For what you're doing, I don't think one is really better than the other.
> > > 
> > > I general though; I've come to see the differences as:
> > > 
> > > MySQL; Faster, More features
> > > PostgreSQL; More Robust/Reliable, More compliant to the SQL standards.
> > 
> > MySQL *used* to be consistently faster, back about 8 years ago, but if
> > you're using any of the more modern storage engines, it's not obvious
> > that this is still the case.  There's a real paucity of good
> > benchmarks.
> > 
> > As for "more features," that hasn't ever been *remotely* close to
> > being the case.
> > 
> > MySQL(tm) was created as the "hacking on" of an SQL parser to a B-tree
> > implementation and has always been feature-impoverished.
> > 
> > In contrast, Postgres was a research project into experimental
> > database features, so that it *began* its life with stuff that other
> > DBs don't commonly have, such as the rules system.  See
> > <http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/rules.html> which
> > references the relevant theoretical papers from the 1980s.
> > 
> > Give special note to:
> >  - The POSTGRES data model
> >  - The case for partial indexes
> >  - On Rules, Procedures, Caching and Views in Database Systems
> > 
> > These were presented as research in the '80s and early '90s; they were
> > part of the implementation long before MySQL(tm) existed.
> 
> Perhaps a neatral view-point comparison on SQL engines would make a good TLUG
> talk?

   Isn't anyone who really knows the subject unlikely to be neutral?

   A *fair* comparison (or contrast) would be good.

-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster         <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
   ===================================================================
   Author:
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 17:55:21 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:55:21 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908211201340.4344@localhost>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>
	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>
	 <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com>
	 <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com>
	 <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908211201340.4344@localhost>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908211055t775cc331s200161a7d4dfd10e@mail.gmail.com>

>> > These were presented as research in the '80s and early '90s; they were
>> > part of the implementation long before MySQL(tm) existed.
>>
>> Perhaps a neatral view-point comparison on SQL engines would make a good TLUG
>> talk?
>
> ? Isn't anyone who really knows the subject unlikely to be neutral?
>
> ? A *fair* comparison (or contrast) would be good.

I agree, would be really interested on such a talk. And yes, finding a
neutral presenter will be a tad hard, but as long as its not blatantly
biased, it should be okay.

What do you think Richard?

>
> --
> ? Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ? ? ? ? <http://woodbine-gerrard.com>
> ? ===================================================================
> ? Author:
> ? Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 18:20:50 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:20:50 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908211055t775cc331s200161a7d4dfd10e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>	 <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com>	 <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com>	 <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908211201340.4344@localhost> <b8f780870908211055t775cc331s200161a7d4dfd10e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com>

William Muriithi wrote:
>>>> These were presented as research in the '80s and early '90s; they were
>>>> part of the implementation long before MySQL(tm) existed.
>>> Perhaps a neatral view-point comparison on SQL engines would make a good TLUG
>>> talk?
>>   Isn't anyone who really knows the subject unlikely to be neutral?
>>
>>   A *fair* comparison (or contrast) would be good.
> 
> I agree, would be really interested on such a talk. And yes, finding a
> neutral presenter will be a tad hard, but as long as its not blatantly
> biased, it should be okay.
> 
> What do you think Richard?

If someone more versed in both wants to give this talk, by all means, 
I'd be interested as well. Failing that though, I'd be happy to do the 
research and put a talk together in the early new year (have a TPM one I 
need to focus on due in October).

I was thinking of asking MySQL folks what they liked over PostgreSQL and 
vice versa. Then try to put together the info... Maybe even develop some 
(simple) benchmarks to try.

I've been a long-time fan of PostgreSQL, but I think the challenge of 
being neutral would be good for me. :)

Madi
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 19:11:14 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:11:14 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <4A8EE582.9040904-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>	 <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com>	 <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com>	 <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908211201340.4344@localhost> <b8f780870908211055t775cc331s200161a7d4dfd10e@mail.gmail.com> <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <4A8EF152.500@dinamis.com>

On 21/08/09 02:20 PM, Madison Kelly wrote:
> I was thinking of asking MySQL folks what they liked over PostgreSQL and
> vice versa. Then try to put together the info... Maybe even develop some
> (simple) benchmarks to try.

I rarely meet anyone who uses MySQL who knows anything about PostgreSQL
so if you ask them, they'll typically parrot what other ignorant people
have written ten years ago. It is true that MySQL was faster, in some
sense of that word, more than ten years ago. It was also true that
Postgres was buggy, again, more than ten years ago. Neither has been the
case for close to a decade. There is simply nothing that MySQL has to
offer today that PostgreSQL doesn't offer or do better. Anyone who
thinks they're interchangeable simply doesn't know what they're talking
about.

> I've been a long-time fan of PostgreSQL, but I think the challenge of
> being neutral would be good for me. :)

I don't care if you're neutral. Anyone who has used and understands both
databases can't be.

I've written on the subject of MySQL vs. PostgreSQL on other lists. I'll
refer you to two examples.

<http://omnis-dev.com/pipermail/omnisdev-en/2009-February/005142.html>

<http://omnis-dev.com/pipermail/omnisdev-en/2009-February/005164.html>
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From contact-4ysUXcep3aM1wj+D4I0NRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 19:49:14 2009
From: contact-4ysUXcep3aM1wj+D4I0NRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Maxime Chambreuil)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:49:14 -0400
Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself...
In-Reply-To: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1250884154.5261.49.camel@dell-studio>

Hello Marcelo,

Thank you very much for your brazilian translation of SFLphone :

https://translations.launchpad.net/sflphone/trunk/+pots/sflphone/

http://www.sflphone.org

Your contributions are very much appreciated.

Good luck for you in Toronto and I am sure you'll get a job there in
Free Software.

Cheers,
--
Maxime Chambreuil
www.savoirfairelinux.com
Tel : 514-276-5468 #1
Tel : 418-525-7354 #1
Tel : 613-688-8081 #1
Tel: 1-877-735-4689 #1

Commentaires / Comments :
http://www.savoirfairelinux.com/questionnaire



Le vendredi 21 ao?t 2009 ? 10:37 -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante a ?crit :

> Hi people,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm new in the list and would like to introduce myself.
> 
> 
> My name is Marcelo Cavalcante, aka kalib, and I'm 23. I'm from Brazil.
> 
> 
> I do work with Linux and Free Software since 2005 and for these years
> I'm always acting as a free software militant. Always working with the
> local community in events, workshops, installfests, etc.. I'm a
> Archlinux Brazil Developers Team member and KDE Brazil Member. I'm
> also a founder of a local free software community called Tux-CE.
> 
> 
> Well, I think you guys must be confused.. Why am I trying to
> participate in a canadian free software community if I do live in
> Brazil? o.O
> 
> 
> I can explain.. It's because I always have been active in the local
> community and in 2007 I visited Toronto, where I lived for 7 months. I
> came back to finish my university. I really loved your country and
> city. In ~2 years ( I guess) I'll be done with my university and I
> have plans to go live in Toronto for some years.
> 
> 
> That's why..
> 
> 
> I hope you guys don't see a problem on this.. :/
> 
> 
> And I really hope I can participate and help the list.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> ---
> 
> -  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
> - /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
> -  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
> - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
> - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
> - KDE Brasil Member
> - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net
> 
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From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 19:56:37 2009
From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:56:37 -0300
Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself...
In-Reply-To: <1250884154.5261.49.camel@dell-studio>
References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1250884154.5261.49.camel@dell-studio>
Message-ID: <1089a0320908211256x4415cfb6teb318051a0a842ce@mail.gmail.com>

Hi people..
Thanks everyone. I'm glad to see the way you guys are getting me. Thank you.
I hope I can help and contribute a lot.

*Maxime... That's cool. Thanks for your words. I'll keeo in touch with your
project.

Best Regards

---

-  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
- /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
-  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
- TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
- Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
- KDE Brasil Member
- http://www.marcelocavalcante.net


On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Maxime Chambreuil <
contact-4ysUXcep3aM1wj+D4I0NRVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:

>  Hello Marcelo,
>
> Thank you very much for your brazilian translation of SFLphone :
>
> https://translations.launchpad.net/sflphone/trunk/+pots/sflphone/
>
> http://www.sflphone.org
>
> Your contributions are very much appreciated.
>
> Good luck for you in Toronto and I am sure you'll get a job there in Free
> Software.
>
> Cheers,
>    --
> Maxime Chambreuil
> www.savoirfairelinux.com
> Tel : 514-276-5468 #1
> Tel : 418-525-7354 #1
> Tel : 613-688-8081 #1
> Tel: 1-877-735-4689 #1
>
> Commentaires / Comments :
> http://www.savoirfairelinux.com/questionnaire
> <http://qmi-saiglobal.com/qmi_companies/results_directory.asp?company=Savoir-faire%20linux>
>
>
> Le vendredi 21 ao?t 2009 ? 10:37 -0300, Marcelo Cavalcante a ?crit :
>
>  Hi people,
>
>
>
>  I'm new in the list and would like to introduce myself.
>
>
>
>  My name is Marcelo Cavalcante, aka kalib, and I'm 23. I'm from Brazil.
>
>
>
>  I do work with Linux and Free Software since 2005 and for these years I'm
> always acting as a free software militant. Always working with the local
> community in events, workshops, installfests, etc.. I'm a Archlinux Brazil
> Developers Team member and KDE Brazil Member. I'm also a founder of a local
> free software community called Tux-CE.
>
>
>
>  Well, I think you guys must be confused.. Why am I trying to participate
> in a canadian free software community if I do live in Brazil? o.O
>
>
>
>  I can explain.. It's because I always have been active in the local
> community and in 2007 I visited Toronto, where I lived for 7 months. I came
> back to finish my university. I really loved your country and city. In ~2
> years ( I guess) I'll be done with my university and I have plans to go live
> in Toronto for some years.
>
>
>
>  That's why..
>
>
>
>  I hope you guys don't see a problem on this.. :/
>
>
>
>  And I really hope I can participate and help the list.
>
>
>
>  Best regards,
>
>
> ---
>
> -  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
> - /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
> -  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
> - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
> - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
> - KDE Brasil Member
> - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net
>
>
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From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 20:27:22 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:27:22 -0400
Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself...
In-Reply-To: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8F032A.603@telly.org>

Hi Marcelo,
> I can explain.. It's because I always have been active in the local
> community and in 2007 I visited Toronto, where I lived for 7 months. I
> came back to finish my university. I really loved your country and
> city. In ~2 years ( I guess) I'll be done with my university and I
> have plans to go live in Toronto for some years.
Welcome to the community!

> That's why..
>
> I hope you guys don't see a problem on this.. :/

No problem, so long as when you come you bring with you plenty of
Guaran?, Cacha?a and Jorge Arag?o CDs.

;-)

- Evan




>
> And I really hope I can participate and help the list.
>
> Best regards,
>
> ---
>
> -  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
> - /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
> -  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
> - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org <http://www.tux-ce.org>
> - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
> - KDE Brasil Member
> - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net

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From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 21:17:26 2009
From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:17:26 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <4A8EF152.500-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>
	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>
	 <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com>
	 <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com>
	 <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908211201340.4344@localhost>
	 <b8f780870908211055t775cc331s200161a7d4dfd10e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com> <4A8EF152.500@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <b8f780870908211417p11798124q3fbf4642d9a87cfd@mail.gmail.com>

Clifford,

Please, I have NO attachment to either of the database, so do not take
this as criticism.
> I've written on the subject of MySQL vs. PostgreSQL on other lists. I'll
> refer you to two examples.
>
> <http://omnis-dev.com/pipermail/omnisdev-en/2009-February/005142.html>
This quote is from the above link.

If someone told me they wanted to use MySQL for a dinky web site with
light traffic, I'd tell them, "If you insist, go ahead. It won't make
much difference but, why bother if you have the choice?" Particularly if
your dataset is so large and your queries so complex that it will tax
*any* database and you don't have the resources of a Yahoo or a Google
to co-develop MySQL, you should be looking at another database.

I find above quote contradicting. If you may allow me to paraphrase
it, it essentially claim google and yahoo uses mysql just because they
have resources. That does not sound convincing enough to me. Even with
a lot of resources, I would expect them to choose use the better of
the two as that would offer them a competitive advantage.


I think its extensive use of mysql is  akin to why Cisco is widely
used that Juniper. That's just a guess, and hopefully Madi will have a
couple of slides of why mysql tend to be more favored in corporate
world and heck, by even most of the open source project seem to offer
mysql over PostgreSQL


Again, the above is a polite opinion and in no way intended to be a flame.

William
>
> <http://omnis-dev.com/pipermail/omnisdev-en/2009-February/005164.html>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Clifford Ilkay
> Dinamis
> 1419-3266 Yonge St.
> Toronto, ON
> Canada ?M4N 3P6
>
> <http://dinamis.com>
> +1 416-410-3326
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 21:29:29 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:29:29 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908211417p11798124q3fbf4642d9a87cfd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>	 <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com>	 <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com>	 <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908211201340.4344@localhost>	 <b8f780870908211055t775cc331s200161a7d4dfd10e@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com> <4A8EF152.500@dinamis.com> <b8f780870908211417p11798124q3fbf4642d9a87cfd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8F11B9.1080809@alteeve.com>

William Muriithi wrote:
> Clifford,
> 
> Please, I have NO attachment to either of the database, so do not take
> this as criticism.
>> I've written on the subject of MySQL vs. PostgreSQL on other lists. I'll
>> refer you to two examples.
>>
>> <http://omnis-dev.com/pipermail/omnisdev-en/2009-February/005142.html>
> This quote is from the above link.
> 
> If someone told me they wanted to use MySQL for a dinky web site with
> light traffic, I'd tell them, "If you insist, go ahead. It won't make
> much difference but, why bother if you have the choice?" Particularly if
> your dataset is so large and your queries so complex that it will tax
> *any* database and you don't have the resources of a Yahoo or a Google
> to co-develop MySQL, you should be looking at another database.
> 
> I find above quote contradicting. If you may allow me to paraphrase
> it, it essentially claim google and yahoo uses mysql just because they
> have resources. That does not sound convincing enough to me. Even with
> a lot of resources, I would expect them to choose use the better of
> the two as that would offer them a competitive advantage.
> 
> 
> I think its extensive use of mysql is  akin to why Cisco is widely
> used that Juniper. That's just a guess, and hopefully Madi will have a
> couple of slides of why mysql tend to be more favored in corporate
> world and heck, by even most of the open source project seem to offer
> mysql over PostgreSQL
> 
> 
> Again, the above is a polite opinion and in no way intended to be a flame.
> 
> William

As was earlier compared; MySQL vs. PostreSQL often stirs up emotions on 
par with the Vim vs Emacs, Linux vs Windows vs Mac, Canada vs. USA, 
Honda vs. Ford and many other "versus" debates. It's very difficult to 
be objective because each side is so convinced that they are right.

Unless one side presents reproducible, empirical evidence along with 
their arguments, it's hard to believe any one side in any such argument. 
This evidence is fleetingly rate. If I do indeed give this talk, it 
would only be after coming up with some evidence to back it up.

To do that though, I'd first need an idea of what each claims is their 
strength and investigate what each claims is the other's weakness. I'd 
need to come up with some code to actually test these assertions and 
make the code available for others to reproduce. I'd need to find a set 
of ways to fail each system and gauge their ability to recover.

This will not be easy or quick, but as I said in my first most on this 
topic, I think it would be a useful exercise for me, as I of course have 
my own biases (PostgreSQL, Linux, Canada, Honda). I'd like to see if I 
can indeed create a neutral talk and presentation. Hearing the arguments 
from both sides would just be the first step I took.

Madi
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 21:54:09 2009
From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:54:09 -0300
Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself...
In-Reply-To: <4A8F032A.603-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A8F032A.603@telly.org>
Message-ID: <1089a0320908211454y55704db8h3f37f407d12770b9@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Evan,
Hehehehe...

How do you know Jorge Arag?o?? hauhauhauh.. It's not my favorite music
style.. but I can check what can I do for you in this case..

About Guaran? n Cacha?a...we can solve this problem... that's easy. ;]

Thanks..

Take care ;]

---

-  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
- /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
-  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
- TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
- Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
- KDE Brasil Member
- TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group
- http://www.marcelocavalcante.net


On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Evan Leibovitch <evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

>  Hi Marcelo,
>
> I can explain.. It's because I always have been active in the local
> community and in 2007 I visited Toronto, where I lived for 7 months. I came
> back to finish my university. I really loved your country and city. In ~2
> years ( I guess) I'll be done with my university and I have plans to go live
> in Toronto for some years.
>
> Welcome to the community!
>
>  That's why..
>
>  I hope you guys don't see a problem on this.. :/
>
>
> No problem, so long as when you come you bring with you plenty of Guaran?,
> Cacha?a and Jorge Arag?o CDs.
>
> ;-)
>
> - Evan
>
>
>
>
>
>  And I really hope I can participate and help the list.
>
>  Best regards,
>
> ---
>
> -  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
> - /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
> -  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
> - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
> - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
> - KDE Brasil Member
> - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net
>
>
>
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 22:21:48 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:21:48 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908211417p11798124q3fbf4642d9a87cfd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>	 <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com>	 <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com>	 <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908211201340.4344@localhost>	 <b8f780870908211055t775cc331s200161a7d4dfd10e@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com> <4A8EF152.500@dinamis.com> <b8f780870908211417p11798124q3fbf4642d9a87cfd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8F1DFC.9060800@dinamis.com>

On 21/08/09 05:17 PM, William Muriithi wrote:
> Clifford,
> 
> Please, I have NO attachment to either of the database, so do not take
> this as criticism.
>> I've written on the subject of MySQL vs. PostgreSQL on other lists. I'll
>> refer you to two examples.
>>
>> <http://omnis-dev.com/pipermail/omnisdev-en/2009-February/005142.html>
> This quote is from the above link.
> 
> If someone told me they wanted to use MySQL for a dinky web site with
> light traffic, I'd tell them, "If you insist, go ahead. It won't make
> much difference but, why bother if you have the choice?" Particularly if
> your dataset is so large and your queries so complex that it will tax
> *any* database and you don't have the resources of a Yahoo or a Google
> to co-develop MySQL, you should be looking at another database.
> 
> I find above quote contradicting. If you may allow me to paraphrase
> it, it essentially claim google and yahoo uses mysql just because they
> have resources. That does not sound convincing enough to me. Even with
> a lot of resources, I would expect them to choose use the better of
> the two as that would offer them a competitive advantage.

There is no contradiction. There are some organizations, like Yahoo,
that started using MySQL so long ago that they have a significant legacy
behind it and they have modified it so much that it would be difficult
for them to migrate to anything else. In effect, they have a custom
database that they maintain themselves. At the time when they started
using MySQL, who knows why they chose it? Perhaps it was long enough ago
that Postgres wasn't viable. Perhaps it was just a dumb choice for which
they continue to pay.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 22:52:43 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:52:43 -0400
Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself...
In-Reply-To: <1089a0320908211454y55704db8h3f37f407d12770b9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8F032A.603@telly.org> <1089a0320908211454y55704db8h3f37f407d12770b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8F253B.9070203@telly.org>

Marcelo Cavalcante wrote:

> How do you know Jorge Arag?o??
In my LPI days I spent some time in S?o Paulo, trying to get companies
such Impacta doing Linux training, and I was able to attend FISL in
2005. My friends there got me into the whole Samba Social Clube stuff
and I was hooked. Arag?o is my favourite, just the video of such a big
guy playing such a small instrument (a ukelele as lead!) is something to
see. Can't understand a word of it but I love the style.

(For anyone local who's curious, try
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y839-I6Ad18)

> hauhauhauh.. It's not my favorite music style.. but I can check what
> can I do for you in this case..
It's OK, I have plenty of my own.

> About Guaran? n Cacha?a...we can solve this problem... that's easy. ;]

I'll bring the limes :-)

- Evan


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 22:58:49 2009
From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:58:49 -0300
Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself...
In-Reply-To: <4A8F253B.9070203-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A8F032A.603@telly.org>
	 <1089a0320908211454y55704db8h3f37f407d12770b9@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A8F253B.9070203@telly.org>
Message-ID: <1089a0320908211558m68983722t2820ec235b053295@mail.gmail.com>

That's nice. FISL is a really nice event. This year I was there as an
expositor. It was really nice and we had a lot of people.
Hope you enjoyed Brazil. ;]

Did you say limes?? So.. I think you wanna take some Caipirinha.. hahaha..

Take Care.

---

-  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
- /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
-  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
- TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
- Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
- KDE Brasil Member
- TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group
- http://www.marcelocavalcante.net


On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Evan Leibovitch <evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Marcelo Cavalcante wrote:
>
> > How do you know Jorge Arag?o??
> In my LPI days I spent some time in S?o Paulo, trying to get companies
> such Impacta doing Linux training, and I was able to attend FISL in
> 2005. My friends there got me into the whole Samba Social Clube stuff
> and I was hooked. Arag?o is my favourite, just the video of such a big
> guy playing such a small instrument (a ukelele as lead!) is something to
> see. Can't understand a word of it but I love the style.
>
> (For anyone local who's curious, try
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y839-I6Ad18)
>
> > hauhauhauh.. It's not my favorite music style.. but I can check what
> > can I do for you in this case..
> It's OK, I have plenty of my own.
>
> > About Guaran? n Cacha?a...we can solve this problem... that's easy. ;]
>
> I'll bring the limes :-)
>
> - Evan
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 23:10:26 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:10:26 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <b8f780870908211417p11798124q3fbf4642d9a87cfd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>	 <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com>	 <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com>	 <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908211201340.4344@localhost>	 <b8f780870908211055t775cc331s200161a7d4dfd10e@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com> <4A8EF152.500@dinamis.com> <b8f780870908211417p11798124q3fbf4642d9a87cfd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8F2962.4020102@dinamis.com>

On 21/08/09 05:17 PM, William Muriithi wrote:
> That's just a guess, and hopefully Madi will have a
> couple of slides of why mysql tend to be more favored in corporate
> world and heck, by even most of the open source project seem to offer
> mysql over PostgreSQL

MySQL is more popular for the same reason that Windows is more popular.
It had prime mover advantage. Superior product don't always win.
Corporate environments favour solutions where there is someone to sue so
having a MySQL AB that sold "support" satisfied the "anus protectus"
needs of corporate buyers. I know that there is commercial support
available for PostgreSQL but having a company with the same name as the
product has its advantages. We're a pretty tech-savvy bunch on this list
and yet, I'll bet many people would be hard-pressed to name one company,
besides the one that I mentioned earlier, Sun, that provides commercial
support for PostgreSQL.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 21 23:16:56 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:16:56 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <4A8F11B9.1080809-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>	 <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com>	 <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com>	 <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908211201340.4344@localhost>	 <b8f780870908211055t775cc331s200161a7d4dfd10e@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com> <4A8EF152.500@dinamis.com> <b8f780870908211417p11798124q3fbf4642d9a87cfd@mail.gmail.com> <4A8F11B9.1080809@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <4A8F2AE8.6050408@dinamis.com>

On 21/08/09 05:29 PM, Madison Kelly wrote:
> As was earlier compared; MySQL vs. PostreSQL often stirs up emotions on
> par with the Vim vs Emacs, Linux vs Windows vs Mac, Canada vs. USA,
> Honda vs. Ford and many other "versus" debates. It's very difficult to
> be objective because each side is so convinced that they are right.
> 
> Unless one side presents reproducible, empirical evidence along with
> their arguments, it's hard to believe any one side in any such argument.
> This evidence is fleetingly rate.


You must be a pretty fast reader if you've already read the volumes of
material on the sites I've referenced in both those posts and have found
them "hard to believe". :)


> If I do indeed give this talk, it
> would only be after coming up with some evidence to back it up.


You can start by reading the materials on the various web sites I've
already referenced starting with the famous "Oops, we did it again" blog
post by Monty Widenius.


> To do that though, I'd first need an idea of what each claims is their
> strength and investigate what each claims is the other's weakness. I'd
> need to come up with some code to actually test these assertions and
> make the code available for others to reproduce. I'd need to find a set
> of ways to fail each system and gauge their ability to recover.
> 
> This will not be easy or quick,


That is the understatement of the year. Even having a dataset large and
complex enough with queries that exercise the capabilities of the
database isn't trivial, much less the underlying hardware.


> but as I said in my first most on this
> topic, I think it would be a useful exercise for me, as I of course have
> my own biases (PostgreSQL, Linux, Canada, Honda). I'd like to see if I
> can indeed create a neutral talk and presentation. Hearing the arguments
> from both sides would just be the first step I took.


Going through this exercise is like asking the question, "Which can move
more freight, a tractor trailer or my little red wagon?" and attempting
to be neutral while you examine all the evidence because you see, those
truck drivers who claim the tractor trailer can move much more freight
than the little red wagon are obviously biased and as such, can't be
trusted.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 22 00:17:41 2009
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:17:41 -0400
Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself...
In-Reply-To: <1089a0320908211558m68983722t2820ec235b053295-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8F032A.603@telly.org>	 <1089a0320908211454y55704db8h3f37f407d12770b9@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A8F253B.9070203@telly.org> <1089a0320908211558m68983722t2820ec235b053295@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8F3925.8030902@sympatico.ca>

Marcelo Cavalcante wrote:
> That's nice. FISL is a really nice event. This year I was there as an 
> expositor. It was really nice and we had a lot of people.
> Hope you enjoyed Brazil. ;]
>
> Did you say limes?? So.. I think you wanna take some Caipirinha.. hahaha..
>
> Take Care.
>
> ---
>
> -  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
> - /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
> -  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
> - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org <http://www.tux-ce.org>
> - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
> - KDE Brasil Member
> - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group
> - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Evan Leibovitch <evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org 
> <mailto:evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org>> wrote:
>
>     Marcelo Cavalcante wrote:
>
>     > How do you know Jorge Arag?o??
>     In my LPI days I spent some time in S?o Paulo, trying to get companies
>     such Impacta doing Linux training, and I was able to attend FISL in
>     2005. My friends there got me into the whole Samba Social Clube stuff
>     and I was hooked. Arag?o is my favourite, just the video of such a big
>     guy playing such a small instrument (a ukelele as lead!) is
>     something to
>     see. Can't understand a word of it but I love the style.
>
>     (For anyone local who's curious, try
>     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y839-I6Ad18)
>
>     > hauhauhauh.. It's not my favorite music style.. but I can check what
>     > can I do for you in this case..
>     It's OK, I have plenty of my own.
>
>     > About Guaran? n Cacha?a...we can solve this problem... that's
>     easy. ;]
>
>     I'll bring the limes :-)
>
>     - Evan
>
Lots of cacha?a in Toronto Evan, you just have to know the right people ;)

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From kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 22 03:57:28 2009
From: kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:57:28 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1250913448.27057.4.camel@desktop>

On Mon, 2009-08-10 at 13:16 -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I am wanting to use a UPS for 2 servers at work. One is linux one is
> ESX3.5i. I am hoping to have it stablize the current (we have problems
> with power surges) as well as tell the machines to turn off if there
> is no power.
> 
> I am looking for compatibility with Linux (so the Linux server
> understands the call from the UPS to shut it down as well as ESX).
> 
> Any suggestions?

See powerware.com. Check out the series 9 for full power control (a bit
pricey), otherwise go through the lower level series. Priced reasonably,
serviced locally by the airport (APC is serviced in Rhode Island), and
excellent quality service and support.

HTH

Kind regards,
Keith

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From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 22 10:33:01 2009
From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:33:01 -0400
Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself...
In-Reply-To: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>; from kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 09:37:57 -0400
References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090822103301.GA1912@localhost>

On Fri Aug 21,2009 09:37:57 AM Marcelo Cavalcante wrote:
> I'm new in the list and would like to introduce myself.
> 
> My name is Marcelo Cavalcante, aka kalib, and I'm 23. I'm from
> Brazil.

Hello Marcelo and welcome to the list.

Just a small request:
I would appreciate it if you would try to follow the TLUG guidlines 
and refrain from including HTML formatting when posting to the 
mailing list.

If you're using the GMail web client, I think there will be a link 
labeled "Plain Text" near the upper right corner of the composition 
text box. If you click on it, your message will be formatted in plain 
text and will not include HTML.

I'm not the list police or anything, it's just that my mail reader 
favors HTML over plain text if both are present, which I don't favor.

Again, welcome,
Scott

P.S. I would ask the same of others (including Marcelo Cavalcante and 
Evan Leibovitch in this particular thread).


-- 
** Scott Allen   scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org **
**     Toronto, Ontario, Canada     **
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From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 22 10:56:04 2009
From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:56:04 +0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>	 <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>	 <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com> <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8FCEC4.9040509@gmail.com>

Since it went into why this or that...

I have a very simple reason, why...

My reason is stronger than your arguments about what is faster and when.

And I do not care what is faster and more reliable.

Since I learned Postgres, I use it. I do not want to go back to MySQL.

Working with MySQL is like doing administrative job. Nothing wrong with 
that. But it is mostly not exciting at all.

Working with Postgres is a creative adventure, never ending. Thats it. 
Nothing else can count for me more than just that.

zb.

Christopher Browne wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Madison Kelly<linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>   
>> For what you're doing, I don't think one is really better than the other.
>>
>> I general though; I've come to see the differences as:
>>
>> MySQL; Faster, More features
>> PostgreSQL; More Robust/Reliable, More compliant to the SQL standards.
>>     
>
> MySQL *used* to be consistently faster, back about 8 years ago, but if
> you're using any of the more modern storage engines, it's not obvious
> that this is still the case.  There's a real paucity of good
> benchmarks.
>
> As for "more features," that hasn't ever been *remotely* close to
> being the case.
>
> MySQL(tm) was created as the "hacking on" of an SQL parser to a B-tree
> implementation and has always been feature-impoverished.
>
> In contrast, Postgres was a research project into experimental
> database features, so that it *began* its life with stuff that other
> DBs don't commonly have, such as the rules system.  See
> <http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/rules.html> which
> references the relevant theoretical papers from the 1980s.
>
> Give special note to:
>  - The POSTGRES data model
>  - The case for partial indexes
>  - On Rules, Procedures, Caching and Views in Database Systems
>
> These were presented as research in the '80s and early '90s; they were
> part of the implementation long before MySQL(tm) existed.
>   

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From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 22 11:12:27 2009
From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:12:27 -0300
Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself...
In-Reply-To: <20090822103301.GA1912@localhost>
References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090822103301.GA1912@localhost>
Message-ID: <1089a0320908220412r6f309c54h2040061386b3197@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Scott,
I'm sorry, but I didn't realize that I was using html. The html was ok
cause I didn't use any image, color, etc.. So I thought I wouldn't
have to check the "Text Plain". Anyway..

Sorry about that.

[]'s
---

- ??v? ? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
- /(_)\ ?Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
- ?^ ^ ? GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
- TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
- Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
- KDE Brasil Member
- TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group
- http://www.marcelocavalcante.net


On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Scott Allen <scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> On Fri Aug 21,2009 09:37:57 AM Marcelo Cavalcante wrote:
>>
>> I'm new in the list and would like to introduce myself.
>>
>> My name is Marcelo Cavalcante, aka kalib, and I'm 23. I'm from
>> Brazil.
>
> Hello Marcelo and welcome to the list.
>
> Just a small request:
> I would appreciate it if you would try to follow the TLUG guidlines and refrain from including HTML formatting when posting to the mailing list.
>
> If you're using the GMail web client, I think there will be a link labeled "Plain Text" near the upper right corner of the composition text box. If you click on it, your message will be formatted in plain text and will not include HTML.
>
> I'm not the list police or anything, it's just that my mail reader favors HTML over plain text if both are present, which I don't favor.
>
> Again, welcome,
> Scott
>
> P.S. I would ask the same of others (including Marcelo Cavalcante and Evan Leibovitch in this particular thread).
>
>
> --
> ** Scott Allen ? scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org **
> ** ? ? Toronto, Ontario, Canada ? ? **
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 22 15:28:32 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:28:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TLUG] Introducing myself...
In-Reply-To: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1089a0320908210637i3d00b54bxffbf9c842d85df6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908221127210.8742@castor.opentrend.net>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote:

> And I really hope I can participate and help the list.

I joined this list about 2 years before I actually migrated to Canada. 
IMHO it is a good idea to join before arriving so you get an idea of the 
'OSS scene'.

Cheers,

Rob

-- 
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
http://www.practicalsysadmin.com
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From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 22 21:19:12 2009
From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:19:12 -0400
Subject: [OT]: Proposed Standard for URL Shortening Services
Message-ID: <99a6c38f0908221419n6e6bc46ei5f5c9a70f9fcfdab@mail.gmail.com>

Saw this mentioned on Twitter a short while ago and thought it might
be of interest for others on-list.

(And, to be honest, I'm quite curious as to what you all might think
of handling URL shortening in DNS.)

The introduction and summary for the standard are as follows:

1. Introduction

   URI hashing services have fallen into popular usage to obscure
   URIs, simplify complex URIs which are not human readable, and
   to conserve local memory.  The lack of standardization and
   interoperability has proven to introduce dangers related to
   the removal and disappearance of services, difficulties in
   filtering content, and abuse.  The inability of services to
   conform to a simple, simplified standard had resulted in such
   hashing services from being blocked from popular internet
   services.  This document outlines a solution for URI hashing
   service interoperability which provides for caching,
   resolution, and the creation of aliases built on the DNS
   infrastructure.

3. Summary

   All data will be publically accessible via DNS (RFC819).  URI
   hashing services will operate a domain root under which they
   will publish their URIHASH Identifiers as subdomains. These
   services will operate a URIHASH RESOLVER service providing
   resolution

   The hash itself will appear as a subdomain with an IN A record
   specifying the URIHASH RESOLVER.

Complete text of the draft can be found at:

  http://6o.to/technology/draft-ietf-windisch-dnsurihash-00.txt

At first glance, this looks like a good idea to me. I don't have the
time (or energy) at the moment to refer to all the references though.

Can anyone reason why the proposal shouldn't/wouldn't be considered -
i.e. does it break or violate anything?

-- 
  Scott Elcomb
  http://www.psema4.com/   @psema4
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 23 00:56:55 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 20:56:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <4A8F11B9.1080809-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com>  <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net>  <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com>  <d6d6637f0908210839v20503f94jc0312c5e4397f081@mail.gmail.com>  <4A8EC37C.6070401@alteeve.com> 
 <alpine.LMD.2.00.0908211201340.4344@localhost>  <b8f780870908211055t775cc331s200161a7d4dfd10e@mail.gmail.com>  <4A8EE582.9040904@alteeve.com> <4A8EF152.500@dinamis.com> <b8f780870908211417p11798124q3fbf4642d9a87cfd@mail.gmail.com>
 <4A8F11B9.1080809@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908222054250.8742@castor.opentrend.net>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009, Madison Kelly wrote:

> To do that though, I'd first need an idea of what each claims is their 
> strength and investigate what each claims is the other's weakness. I'd need 
> to come up with some code to actually test these assertions and make the code 
> available for others to reproduce. I'd need to find a set of ways to fail 
> each system and gauge their ability to recover.

That sounds like a really good way to approach the problem.

> This will not be easy or quick, but as I said in my first most on this topic, 
> I think it would be a useful exercise for me, as I of course have my own 
> biases (PostgreSQL, Linux, Canada, Honda). I'd like to see if I can indeed

This sounds like an alternative Myers-Briggs test :)

So you'd be 'PLCH' then :)

Cheers,

Rob

-- 
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
http://www.practicalsysadmin.com
--
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From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 23 01:28:33 2009
From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:28:33 -0400
Subject: TASK Meeting.
Message-ID: <f646b91f0908221828u510aa97ex643fff366a4d43fe@mail.gmail.com>

The Toronto Area Security Klatch (TASK) folks are interested in all
areas of computer security, and are OS agnostic (any given meeting
might be MS Windows oriented, or Linux, or Solaris, or physical
security, or databases, or ...). The group's next meeting (taken from:
http://www.task.to/events/upcoming.php) is as follows:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
BlackHat and Defcon Review - August 26, 2009
Location: Pharmacy Building, 144 College St., Room B250

Topic: BlackHat and Defcon Review
Speaker: Various Attendees

In this presentation, we'll cover the highlights of each conference.
The new exploits and tool releases, new research and make sure you
know what you missed out on!
---------------------------------------------------------------

Please note that room B250 is in the basement, NOT the 2nd floor....
Normal attendance for these meetings is about 75 people and is free to
attend. All meetings start at 6:00 PM and normally run until about
9:00 PM

Colin McGregor
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From lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 23 02:51:17 2009
From: lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Julian C. Dunn)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:51:17 -0400
Subject: [OT]: Proposed Standard for URL Shortening Services
In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0908221419n6e6bc46ei5f5c9a70f9fcfdab-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <99a6c38f0908221419n6e6bc46ei5f5c9a70f9fcfdab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1250995877.2447.6.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com>

On Sat, 2009-08-22 at 17:19 -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote:

> Saw this mentioned on Twitter a short while ago and thought it might
> be of interest for others on-list.
> 
> (And, to be honest, I'm quite curious as to what you all might think
> of handling URL shortening in DNS.)

Details in the document seem too sparse to allow for much comment. My
initial reaction is that this is not a great idea. The main problems I
see with URL shortening services are a) possible namespace clashes on a
particular provider's service, particularly now that some services are
offering "custom" shortened URLs; b) loss of entire provider's shortened
URLs should that provider go down for whatever reason.

I don't see how storing the records in the provider's DNS would solve
b).

- Julian

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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 23 23:31:41 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:31:41 -0400
Subject: have ya ever been to sc ?
Message-ID: <4A91D15D.9000403@linuxcaffe.ca>

Hi Tluggers!
I'm just tossing out this feeler to see if there might be one amongst us 
who knows the insides and the outsides of the venerable sc: the 
spreadsheet calculator. As crazy as it might sound, I'm looking to 
integrate a bit of console spreadsheet into my process, and if any of 
you have a familiarity, I might have a question or two.
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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 01:36:07 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:36:07 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
Message-ID: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com>

All,

I am trying to decide on a web framework to use to redesign my
personal website with so I can use it to build a community site. I
have heard of Drupal, and lately I heard about Django from Clifford.

It seem like Django would provide more power and flexibility and look
like a relatively lightweight framework to work with? I have to admit
I'm not a fan of Python, this is totally coming from ignorance from my
part about Python. As a result I am somewhat biased from learning
about Django.

I also started to look at Ruby on Rails as a framework to consider.

Right now Django and RoR seem to be the front runner for me. I
personally like Ruby's clean syntax and get it being a C++ developer,
so my bias is leading me down that part.

I would like to hear from others who might be using Drupal, Django or
RoR about the benefits and shorting coming they have had to deal with
for their CMS framework. I want to make a decision after trying to
collect all the facts before I commit myself to learning a script
language + framework.

One of the things Clifford brought to my attention was about the
community support and help in making a consideration to use a given
framework. IF there is no one to answer your questions on the IRC /
Forum then it's going to make for a poor experience.

Your thoughts are welcomed.

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
--
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From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 02:43:32 2009
From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:43:32 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908232243.32563.amarjan@pobox.com>

On August 23, 2009 09:36:07 pm Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> All,
> 
> I am trying to decide on a web framework to use to redesign my
> personal website with so I can use it to build a community site. I
> have heard of Drupal, and lately I heard about Django from Clifford.

Rails and Django are app frameworks, Drupal is a CMS (like Joomla or PHP-
Nuke). You can also press blog software like Wordpress or Moveable Type into 
more generic web CMS duty.

Unless you specifically want to build your own CMS, then you probably don't 
want to start from scratch with Rails or Django, and would be better served by 
checking out the existing CMS's. Most CMS's can be extended with plugins, 
either pre-built or ones you custom-build.

Note that building a full blown (and secure) CMS is not easy -- just look at 
the security track record of the favourites, like Joomla, Drupal and 
Wordpress.

This site has a pretty useful catalog of open source CMS software, as well as 
live demos of a whole bunch of them:

http://www.opensourcecms.com/

> I would like to hear from others who might be using Drupal, Django or
> RoR about the benefits and shorting coming they have had to deal with
> for their CMS framework. I want to make a decision after trying to
> collect all the facts before I commit myself to learning a script
> language + framework.

The first thing to decide is what you're trying to do: use a CMS or build a 
CMS.

If the former, then be sure to try the live demos either on the site above or 
on the project sites.
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From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 11:33:49 2009
From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:33:49 -0300
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <200908232243.32563.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com>
	 <200908232243.32563.amarjan@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <1089a0320908240433x2575c184o673e9ff0f27fbfb5@mail.gmail.com>

Is hard to compare Drupal and Django.
Like Andrej said, Drupal is a CMS and Django is a python framework for
web developing.
In my opinion, if you don't like pytho I wouldn't encourage you to use
Django. You'll probably loose your time. I love python and Django
would be my first choice, but that's not your case.

If you're interested in CMS to make it easier to you.. you could check
Joomla, Drupal and, why not, wordpress. ;]

Both, Drupal and wordpress, are very simple to use. You wouldn't have problems.

[]'s

---

-  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
- /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
-  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
- TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
- Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
- KDE Brasil Member
- TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group
- http://www.marcelocavalcante.net



On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 11:43 PM, Andrej Marjan<amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On August 23, 2009 09:36:07 pm Rajinder Yadav wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I am trying to decide on a web framework to use to redesign my
>> personal website with so I can use it to build a community site. I
>> have heard of Drupal, and lately I heard about Django from Clifford.
>
> Rails and Django are app frameworks, Drupal is a CMS (like Joomla or PHP-
> Nuke). You can also press blog software like Wordpress or Moveable Type into
> more generic web CMS duty.
>
> Unless you specifically want to build your own CMS, then you probably don't
> want to start from scratch with Rails or Django, and would be better served by
> checking out the existing CMS's. Most CMS's can be extended with plugins,
> either pre-built or ones you custom-build.
>
> Note that building a full blown (and secure) CMS is not easy -- just look at
> the security track record of the favourites, like Joomla, Drupal and
> Wordpress.
>
> This site has a pretty useful catalog of open source CMS software, as well as
> live demos of a whole bunch of them:
>
> http://www.opensourcecms.com/
>
>> I would like to hear from others who might be using Drupal, Django or
>> RoR about the benefits and shorting coming they have had to deal with
>> for their CMS framework. I want to make a decision after trying to
>> collect all the facts before I commit myself to learning a script
>> language + framework.
>
> The first thing to decide is what you're trying to do: use a CMS or build a
> CMS.
>
> If the former, then be sure to try the live demos either on the site above or
> on the project sites.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 14:06:13 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:06:13 -0400
Subject: Migrate MySQL... or not...
In-Reply-To: <4A8EA9B8.5080204-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A8C2926.1010502@gmail.com> <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908192036370.1377@castor.opentrend.net> <4A8E9F0B.8060006@gmail.com> <4A8EA9B8.5080204@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20090824140613.GA23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:05:44AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
> For what you're doing, I don't think one is really better than the other.
>
> I general though; I've come to see the differences as:
>
> MySQL; Faster, More features
> PostgreSQL; More Robust/Reliable, More compliant to the SQL standards.

I thought the speed varied by mysql backend, as did the features (in
fact many features mean using a backend that isn't fast).

Besides postgres has gotten faster too.  It also has only one backend
causing a whole lot less confusion.

I personally much prefer the command line tool for postgres over whatever
mysql has (never did find a decent command line tool for mysql).

-- 
Len Sorensen
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From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 15:46:52 2009
From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:46:52 -0400
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A92B5EC.5070100@teksavvy.com>

John Miles wrote:
> Ok - a very silly question:
> 
> Is there is a good place online, or perhaps locally to purchase a Linux
> "Tux" figurine of some sort?
> We have a coop student finishing her term, and instead of some corporate
> stamped cheesy gift, I thought Tux would be an excellent choice.
> Thanks,
> JohnM
> 

ThinkGeek has stuffed Tux dolls.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/plush/288e/



-- 
Glen Strom
gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org
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From rfkennedy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 16:03:29 2009
From: rfkennedy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Robert F. Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:03:29 -0400
Subject: data recovery
Message-ID: <7b85931d0908240903u1742d932rb061e036b889395b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I've got a qnap ts-109 II Pro NAS drive that has some data on it that
I'd like to recover but its
undergone a few minutes of formating by the qnap server. The qnap folk
use ext3 but much to mychagrin it is a modified version. I've got a
boot OS from them but the drive won't show up when I do fdisk -l.

There is a small file on this disk that would be a lot of work to redo
- anyone that can help recover this please contact me by email
rfkennedy at gmail.com or by telephone 647-989-2345.

Thanks,
Robert
Dufferin @ College
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From alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 18:11:12 2009
From: alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Kink)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:11:12 -0400
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1eea116a0908241111n5e8e3215t4e6c687c81138be2@mail.gmail.com>

A bit lame that it says Tux on his tummy but nevertheless:

http://www.amazon.com/Tux-Penguin-Official-Source-Mascot/dp/B001ESLQLY

Regards,
Alex Kink

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 6:35 AM, John Miles <jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Ok - a very silly question:
>
> Is there is a good place online, or perhaps locally to purchase a Linux
> "Tux" figurine of some sort?
> We have a coop student finishing her term, and instead of some corporate
> stamped cheesy gift, I thought Tux would be an excellent choice.
> Thanks,
> JohnM
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 18:31:45 2009
From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:31:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: have ya ever been to sc ?
References: <4A91D15D.9000403@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <loom.20090824T203107-487@post.gmane.org>

David J Patrick <djp at ...> writes:
> who knows the insides and the outsides of the venerable sc: the 

Ask ...

Peter

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From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 18:32:10 2009
From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:32:10 -0400
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f646b91f0908241132t3f96593ftae804e7174d83a01@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/24/09, John Miles <jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Ok - a very silly question:
>
> Is there is a good place online, or perhaps locally to purchase a Linux
> "Tux" figurine of some sort?
> We have a coop student finishing her term, and instead of some corporate
> stamped cheesy gift, I thought Tux would be an excellent choice.
> Thanks,
> JohnM

It has been a little while since I was last in the University of
Toronto bookstore at St. George & College, so I don't know if they
still sell plush Tux dolls. Still, they used to sell them in different
sizes, I got one of smaller Tuxes, quite nice...

They are the only local place I know of that (used to???) sell Tux locally...

Alternatively, if you're handy with a needle & thread, or can hire
someone who is handy, here is a Tux sewing pattern:

http://www.free-penguin.org/


Colin McGregor
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From alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 18:35:22 2009
From: alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Kink)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:35:22 +0000
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <f646b91f0908241132t3f96593ftae804e7174d83a01-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com><f646b91f0908241132t3f96593ftae804e7174d83a01@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <900175066-1251138919-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-441636483-@bxe1079.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

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dGFsdWcub3JnL3dpa2kvTWFpbGluZ19saXN0cw0K
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 18:39:18 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:39:18 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A92DE56.5020304@dinamis.com>

On 23/08/09 09:36 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> I am trying to decide on a web framework to use to redesign my
> personal website with so I can use it to build a community site. I
> have heard of Drupal, and lately I heard about Django from Clifford.
> 
> It seem like Django would provide more power and flexibility and look
> like a relatively lightweight framework to work with? I have to admit
> I'm not a fan of Python, this is totally coming from ignorance from my
> part about Python. As a result I am somewhat biased from learning
> about Django.


If you're ignorant about Python, on what basis did you decide that you
don't like it? If you say "enforced whitespace", I'll be sure to bring
tar and feathers to the next TLUG meeting in which you're in attendance. :)


> I also started to look at Ruby on Rails as a framework to consider.
> 
> Right now Django and RoR seem to be the front runner for me. I
> personally like Ruby's clean syntax and get it being a C++ developer,
> so my bias is leading me down that part.


I considered Ruby when I was considering various Python-based frameworks
a few years ago. I opted to stick with Python for a few reasons.

1. Python was/is more mature. It's seen as a fringe language by some so
if Python is on the fringe, Ruby is even more so. I didn't want to be
that far on the fringe.

2. Python had better Unicode support at the time. Ruby had no Unicode
support to speak of.

3. The English Ruby docs weren't as extensive or as good as the Python
docs I found. I suppose if I could read Japanese, that might have helped.

4. I found Ruby's syntax to be a mishmash of Python and Perl, with the
worst parts of both.

Having said all that, had I not started using Python first, I may have
been happy with Ruby.


> I would like to hear from others who might be using Drupal, Django or
> RoR about the benefits and shorting coming they have had to deal with
> for their CMS framework. I want to make a decision after trying to
> collect all the facts before I commit myself to learning a script
> language + framework.


Since you already know how to program, I don't see how this is such a
big commitment. Asking others for their opinions on this is like asking,
"What kind of tea do you like? I'd like to try your favourite kind."
Actually, I have a story on that. A few years ago, I bought some tea
that I loved from Nasr Fine Foods, which has, sadly, been going downhill
for a while. I never saw it there again. A few months ago, I saw the
same tea at Arz Bakery, which is attracting disaffected Nasr shoppers,
but it was the same story when I returned to buy some more. I asked the
manager if he could order more and he told me that he couldn't but
recommended some Lebanese brand, Horse's Head Tea, a name evocative of
the infamous scene in The Godfather. He told me it was a very
high-quality tea and that it was very good. It might have been a
high-quality tea but I thought it tasted awful. Clearly, some things are
an acquired taste.

We have been developing with Zope/Plone, Django, and Drupal for years
and have recently started using Liferay Portal. They all have their
strengths and weaknesses.

Zope/Plone is very good for document management types of applications
but it is big and complex. There is a huge legacy of (ugly) Zope 2 code
that Plone has to support but it's been transitioning to cleaner Zope 3
code. One of the areas that Plone has caused no end of grief to the
uninitiated is that Zope allows for TTW (Through the Web) development.
You can create Python scripts in a web formm that you can save in the
ZODB (Zope Object Database). Newbies get bitten by that one because they
don't realize that TTW development makes for unmaintainable sites.
Zope/Plone is often criticized by its detractors as being the J2EE of
the Python world. No doubt about it, it's big and complex but Zope
developers often say that Zope is the web framework that every web
developer will eventually implement, badly. I don't think there has ever
been a case of a remote Zope exploit.

Django can do just about anything but it doesn't pretend to target end
users. It is a developer's tool. That is not to say that you have to be
a super developer to do anything with it. The clincher for me to take a
closer look at Django was a blog post written by a designer who didn't
know much about Python, much less programming, and how he created his
own blog using Django. It is simple and lightweight and with a
relatively small amount of code, you can create a site quickly. With
Django, we build up from a thin layer and it is quite easy to understand
and control all points in between the time you receive an http request
to the time you return a formatted page. Upgrades can be as easy or as
difficult as you make them. Django would be great even if it weren't
written in Python. Python just makes it even better.

The only downside of Django, and this is more a marketing thing than any
basis in fact, is that there is nothing to show an end user when you
install Django. It doesn't take long to get to the point where you can
show something though. Django's admin interface is not only
well-designed, it's very clever. There is no stock skin for people to
see something so that they can believe it's real. With Drupal, you have
a zillion "themes" from which to choose, most of which people don't end
up using on production sites with a big emphasis on design anyway but
they serve as a useful placeholder and marketing tool. To get from no
default skin in Django to a well-designed front end is often less work
and affords greater flexibility than creating a Drupal theme so that's a
saving grace.

Drupal is also very versatile, though it can also be quite complex. It's
better-suited to social networking types of applications. One of the
things that I think attracts people to Drupal is that it gives the
*illusion* of productivity. When you need to do anything remotely
complex, actually, sometimes even simple things, they can be maddeningly
difficult. With Drupal, quite often, we're trying to figure out how to
remove functionality from an "everything but the kitchen sink" product.
"Module mashup" can be a nightmare when you have the equivalent of DLL
hell in Drupal modules and like PHP itself, there are far too many
modules that do the same thing, albeit with minor twists. This results
in ridiculous situations like installing one module causes a completely
unexpected and bad side-effect elsewhere and you'll have to install yet
another module to correct that side-effect, or resort to some ugly hack.
Oh, upgrades between major releases are also problematic. Drupal also
supports TTW development, which has the same problems on Drupal as it
does on Plone. There is far too much code mixed up in the model and
presentation layer for my liking. Despite all that, we use it for
certain problem sets, or where the client specifically requires it.
Drupal is good despite PHP, not because of it.

Liferay Portal purports to be an "enterprise open source" portal
product. So far, the only thing "enterprise" about it that I've seen is
that there is great dependency on the vendor behind it for support and
updates, the docs are inadequate, it's big and complex, and it's
dependent on the language that bureaucrats love, Java. There is good
money to be made in such products though because they have the word
"enterprise" associated with them.

With any of the above, you can get the first 80% of many problems solved
quickly, though not the same 80%. The last 20% can range from "a bit
more difficult" to "you can't get there from here". Only you know if the
80% a given product covers is the 80% that is really important to you.
For your use case, I'd guess Django, some of the Django-based "CMS"
products and social networking apps, Drupal, Pylons (Python-based),
TurboGears (Python-based), or Ruby on Rails could be appropriate. No one
else can make the decision of which is the right one for you.


> One of the things Clifford brought to my attention was about the
> community support and help in making a consideration to use a given
> framework. IF there is no one to answer your questions on the IRC /
> Forum then it's going to make for a poor experience.


I'd add documentation to that mix. Django has some of the best
documentation I've seen. Drupal's documentation, by contrast, leaves
much to be desired. Plone's and Liferay's docs are spotty. Liferay's
community is iffy, too. Django, Plone, and Drupal all have very active
communities, with the first two having a higher quality of participation
than the third. By the way, forums suck.


> Your thoughts are welcomed.


Try them and use what you like.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 18:39:45 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:39:45 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <200908232243.32563.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com> <200908232243.32563.amarjan@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <4A92DE71.90208@dinamis.com>

On 23/08/09 10:43 PM, Andrej Marjan wrote:
> On August 23, 2009 09:36:07 pm Rajinder Yadav wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I am trying to decide on a web framework to use to redesign my
>> personal website with so I can use it to build a community site. I
>> have heard of Drupal, and lately I heard about Django from Clifford.
> 
> Rails and Django are app frameworks, Drupal is a CMS (like Joomla or PHP-
> Nuke).


I find those distinctions to be artificial and specious. I doubt you'd
even get agreement on what a CMS is.


> You can also press blog software like Wordpress or Moveable Type into
> more generic web CMS duty.
> 
> Unless you specifically want to build your own CMS, then you probably don't 
> want to start from scratch with Rails or Django, and would be better served by 
> checking out the existing CMS's. Most CMS's can be extended with plugins, 
> either pre-built or ones you custom-build.


You can do that with Django too and I'd be very surprised if Rails
didn't have some mechanism for extending a Rails app. And if you insist
that you want to use something where someone else has made some
decisions for you and called it a "CMS", take a look at
<http://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/CMSAppsComparison>.

Pinax <http://pinaxproject.com/> takes a different approach. It's
creators have taken the most popular Django apps and integrated them so
that you have an "out of the box" social networking site. You have all
the goodness of Django without compromising too much.


> Note that building a full blown (and secure) CMS is not easy -- just look at 
> the security track record of the favourites, like Joomla, Drupal and 
> Wordpress.


Perhaps it's because they're written in a language with a notoriously
poor track record. In the article "Risk report: Four years of Red Hat
Enterprise Linux 4"
<http://magazine.redhat.com/2009/03/10/risk-report-four-years-of-red-hat-enterprise-linux-4/>,
you'll notice that only one language gets a category onto itself, PHP.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 18:42:11 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:42:11 -0400
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <1eea116a0908241111n5e8e3215t4e6c687c81138be2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com> <1eea116a0908241111n5e8e3215t4e6c687c81138be2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A92DF03.7020404@telly.org>

Alex Kink wrote:
> A bit lame that it says Tux on his tummy but nevertheless:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Tux-Penguin-Official-Source-Mascot/dp/B001ESLQLY

This foam-rubber stress releiver has often been used for corporate toys
with many belly logos. I have one of these from IBM (blue jacket and
tie), one from Oracle (in chain mail armour), and plain ones from Corel
and SGI.

There is a blank-tummy version at
http://www.kleargear.com/2102.html

- Evan
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 18:55:57 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:55:57 -0400
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <900175066-1251138919-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-441636483--0kAENzPV4IG6+1s8yt2eEObbz5fhSPodbBxjXNYs1vU@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com> 
	<f646b91f0908241132t3f96593ftae804e7174d83a01@mail.gmail.com> 
	<900175066-1251138919-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-441636483-@bxe1079.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908241155k7be3bd54w4e22b6f0255ba8b5@mail.gmail.com>

Translated:

What would be nice is a little tux carved out of wood. My grandfather
would have been able to do this back in the day.

Anybody handy enough? I would get few :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin McGregor <colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:32:10
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Tux Figurine


On 8/24/09, John Miles <jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Ok - a very silly question:
>
> Is there is a good place online, or perhaps locally to purchase a Linux
> "Tux" figurine of some sort?
> We have a coop student finishing her term, and instead of some corporate
> stamped cheesy gift, I thought Tux would be an excellent choice.
> Thanks,
> JohnM

It has been a little while since I was last in the University of
Toronto bookstore at St. George & College, so I don't know if they
still sell plush Tux dolls. Still, they used to sell them in different
sizes, I got one of smaller Tuxes, quite nice...

They are the only local place I know of that (used to???) sell Tux locally...

Alternatively, if you're handy with a needle & thread, or can hire
someone who is handy, here is a Tux sewing pattern:

http://www.free-penguin.org/


Colin McGregor
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists


On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 14:35, Alex Kink<alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> V2hhdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBuaWNlIGlzIGEgbGl0dGxlIHR1eCBjYXJ2ZWQgb3V0IG9mIHdvb2QuIE15
> IGdyYW5kZmF0aGVyIHdvdWxkIGhhdmUgYmVlbiBhYmxlIHRvIGRvIHRoaXMgYmFjayBpbiB0aGUg
> ZGF5Lg0KDQpBbnlib2R5IGhhbmR5IGVub3VnaD8gSSB3b3VsZCBnZXQgZmV3IDopDQotLS0tLU9y
> aWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogQ29saW4gTWNHcmVnb3IgPGNvbGluLm1jMTUxQGdt
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> cy5vcmc+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW1RMVUddOiBUdXggRmlndXJpbmUNCg0KDQpPbiA4LzI0LzA5
> LCBKb2huIE1pbGVzIDxqbWlsZXMyNDJAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gT2sgLSBhIHZlcnkg
> c2lsbHkgcXVlc3Rpb246DQo+DQo+IElzIHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgZ29vZCBwbGFjZSBvbmxpbmUsIG9y
> IHBlcmhhcHMgbG9jYWxseSB0byBwdXJjaGFzZSBhIExpbnV4DQo+ICJUdXgiIGZpZ3VyaW5lIG9m
> IHNvbWUgc29ydD8NCj4gV2UgaGF2ZSBhIGNvb3Agc3R1ZGVudCBmaW5pc2hpbmcgaGVyIHRlcm0s
> IGFuZCBpbnN0ZWFkIG9mIHNvbWUgY29ycG9yYXRlDQo+IHN0YW1wZWQgY2hlZXN5IGdpZnQsIEkg
> dGhvdWdodCBUdXggd291bGQgYmUgYW4gZXhjZWxsZW50IGNob2ljZS4NCj4gVGhhbmtzLA0KPiBK
> b2huTQ0KDQpJdCBoYXMgYmVlbiBhIGxpdHRsZSB3aGlsZSBzaW5jZSBJIHdhcyBsYXN0IGluIHRo
> ZSBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IG9mDQpUb3JvbnRvIGJvb2tzdG9yZSBhdCBTdC4gR2VvcmdlICYgQ29sbGVn
> ZSwgc28gSSBkb24ndCBrbm93IGlmIHRoZXkNCnN0aWxsIHNlbGwgcGx1c2ggVHV4IGRvbGxzLiBT
> dGlsbCwgdGhleSB1c2VkIHRvIHNlbGwgdGhlbSBpbiBkaWZmZXJlbnQNCnNpemVzLCBJIGdvdCBv
> bmUgb2Ygc21hbGxlciBUdXhlcywgcXVpdGUgbmljZS4uLg0KDQpUaGV5IGFyZSB0aGUgb25seSBs
> b2NhbCBwbGFjZSBJIGtub3cgb2YgdGhhdCAodXNlZCB0bz8/Pykgc2VsbCBUdXggbG9jYWxseS4u
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> ZCwgb3IgY2FuIGhpcmUNCnNvbWVvbmUgd2hvIGlzIGhhbmR5LCBoZXJlIGlzIGEgVHV4IHNld2lu
> ZyBwYXR0ZXJuOg0KDQpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmZyZWUtcGVuZ3Vpbi5vcmcvDQoNCg0KQ29saW4gTWNH
> cmVnb3INCi0tDQpUaGUgVG9yb250byBMaW51eCBVc2VycyBHcm91cC4gICAgICBNZWV0aW5nczog
> aHR0cDovL2d0YWx1Zy5vcmcvDQpUTFVHIHJlcXVlc3RzOiBMaW51eCB0b3BpY3MsIE5vIEhUTUws
> IHdyYXAgdGV4dCBiZWxvdyA4MCBjb2x1bW5zDQpIb3cgdG8gVU5TVUJTQ1JJQkU6IGh0dHA6Ly9n
> dGFsdWcub3JnL3dpa2kvTWFpbGluZ19saXN0cw0K
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>



-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 18:56:38 2009
From: alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Kink)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:56:38 -0400
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <4A92DF03.7020404-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1eea116a0908241111n5e8e3215t4e6c687c81138be2@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A92DF03.7020404@telly.org>
Message-ID: <1eea116a0908241156h6c78cf37pdf989d83aa8f1618@mail.gmail.com>

What would be nice is a little tux carved out of wood. My grandfather would
have been able to do this back in the day.

Anybody handy enough? I would get few :)

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Evan Leibovitch <evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Alex Kink wrote:
> > A bit lame that it says Tux on his tummy but nevertheless:
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/Tux-Penguin-Official-Source-Mascot/dp/B001ESLQLY
>
> This foam-rubber stress releiver has often been used for corporate toys
> with many belly logos. I have one of these from IBM (blue jacket and
> tie), one from Oracle (in chain mail armour), and plain ones from Corel
> and SGI.
>
> There is a blank-tummy version at
> http://www.kleargear.com/2102.html
>
> - Evan
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 18:56:42 2009
From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:56:42 -0300
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <4A92DF03.7020404-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1eea116a0908241111n5e8e3215t4e6c687c81138be2@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A92DF03.7020404@telly.org>
Message-ID: <1089a0320908241156u202fe1fajf9e1b51336c44dec@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all..

Did you check this link?
http://shop.cheapbytes.com/cgi-bin/cart/1000010003.html?id=9azQUc4L

They have a nice one.

Here in Brazil we do have a nice store that sells a lot of linux
stuffs.. But I don't think they do deliver to another countries.. :/
But.. if you wanna just take a look.. :p
http://www.linuxmall.com.br/?category=pelucias

cheers

---

-  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
- /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
-  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
- TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
- Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
- KDE Brasil Member
- TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group
- http://www.marcelocavalcante.net



On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Evan Leibovitch<evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Alex Kink wrote:
>> A bit lame that it says Tux on his tummy but nevertheless:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Tux-Penguin-Official-Source-Mascot/dp/B001ESLQLY
>
> This foam-rubber stress releiver has often been used for corporate toys
> with many belly logos. I have one of these from IBM (blue jacket and
> tie), one from Oracle (in chain mail armour), and plain ones from Corel
> and SGI.
>
> There is a blank-tummy version at
> http://www.kleargear.com/2102.html
>
> - Evan
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 18:57:32 2009
From: alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Kink)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:57:32 -0400
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908241155k7be3bd54w4e22b6f0255ba8b5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com>
	 <f646b91f0908241132t3f96593ftae804e7174d83a01@mail.gmail.com>
	 <900175066-1251138919-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-441636483-@bxe1079.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	 <7c50d3570908241155k7be3bd54w4e22b6f0255ba8b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1eea116a0908241157u526f6d92w4a728f34f2369c8b@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry! I wonder what happened to this message of mine. I had sent it from a
Blackberry.

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Michael Lauzon <mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Translated:
>
> What would be nice is a little tux carved out of wood. My grandfather
> would have been able to do this back in the day.
>
> Anybody handy enough? I would get few :)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Colin McGregor <colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
>
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:32:10
> To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Tux Figurine
>
>
> On 8/24/09, John Miles <jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Ok - a very silly question:
> >
> > Is there is a good place online, or perhaps locally to purchase a Linux
> > "Tux" figurine of some sort?
> > We have a coop student finishing her term, and instead of some corporate
> > stamped cheesy gift, I thought Tux would be an excellent choice.
> > Thanks,
> > JohnM
>
> It has been a little while since I was last in the University of
> Toronto bookstore at St. George & College, so I don't know if they
> still sell plush Tux dolls. Still, they used to sell them in different
> sizes, I got one of smaller Tuxes, quite nice...
>
> They are the only local place I know of that (used to???) sell Tux
> locally...
>
> Alternatively, if you're handy with a needle & thread, or can hire
> someone who is handy, here is a Tux sewing pattern:
>
> http://www.free-penguin.org/
>
>
> Colin McGregor
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 14:35, Alex Kink<alexkink-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >
> V2hhdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBuaWNlIGlzIGEgbGl0dGxlIHR1eCBjYXJ2ZWQgb3V0IG9mIHdvb2QuIE15
> >
> IGdyYW5kZmF0aGVyIHdvdWxkIGhhdmUgYmVlbiBhYmxlIHRvIGRvIHRoaXMgYmFjayBpbiB0aGUg
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
> cy5vcmc+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW1RMVUddOiBUdXggRmlndXJpbmUNCg0KDQpPbiA4LzI0LzA5
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
> ZSBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IG9mDQpUb3JvbnRvIGJvb2tzdG9yZSBhdCBTdC4gR2VvcmdlICYgQ29sbGVn
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
> b2NhbCBwbGFjZSBJIGtub3cgb2YgdGhhdCAodXNlZCB0bz8/Pykgc2VsbCBUdXggbG9jYWxseS4u
> >
> Lg0KDQpBbHRlcm5hdGl2ZWx5LCBpZiB5b3UncmUgaGFuZHkgd2l0aCBhIG5lZWRsZSAmIHRocmVh
> >
> ZCwgb3IgY2FuIGhpcmUNCnNvbWVvbmUgd2hvIGlzIGhhbmR5LCBoZXJlIGlzIGEgVHV4IHNld2lu
> >
> ZyBwYXR0ZXJuOg0KDQpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmZyZWUtcGVuZ3Vpbi5vcmcvDQoNCg0KQ29saW4gTWNH
> >
> cmVnb3INCi0tDQpUaGUgVG9yb250byBMaW51eCBVc2VycyBHcm91cC4gICAgICBNZWV0aW5nczog
> >
> aHR0cDovL2d0YWx1Zy5vcmcvDQpUTFVHIHJlcXVlc3RzOiBMaW51eCB0b3BpY3MsIE5vIEhUTUws
> >
> IHdyYXAgdGV4dCBiZWxvdyA4MCBjb2x1bW5zDQpIb3cgdG8gVU5TVUJTQ1JJQkU6IGh0dHA6Ly9n
> > dGFsdWcub3JnL3dpa2kvTWFpbGluZ19saXN0cw0K
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael Lauzon
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 19:00:10 2009
From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:00:10 -0300
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <1089a0320908241156u202fe1fajf9e1b51336c44dec-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1eea116a0908241111n5e8e3215t4e6c687c81138be2@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A92DF03.7020404@telly.org>
	 <1089a0320908241156u202fe1fajf9e1b51336c44dec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1089a0320908241200j197d4b32ya8365adf9a64bad3@mail.gmail.com>

Ops...
By the way... Another website you can find almost everything about
linux is http://www.zazzle.com/archlinux
http://www.zazzle.com/debian+gifts
http://www.zazzle.com/slackware+gifts
http://www.zazzle.com/ubuntu+gifts
http://www.zazzle.com/linux+gifts
...
...
etc..

;]
---

-  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
- /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
-  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
- TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
- Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
- KDE Brasil Member
- TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group
- http://www.marcelocavalcante.net



On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Marcelo Cavalcante<kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hello all..
>
> Did you check this link?
> http://shop.cheapbytes.com/cgi-bin/cart/1000010003.html?id=9azQUc4L
>
> They have a nice one.
>
> Here in Brazil we do have a nice store that sells a lot of linux
> stuffs.. But I don't think they do deliver to another countries.. :/
> But.. if you wanna just take a look.. :p
> http://www.linuxmall.com.br/?category=pelucias
>
> cheers
>
> ---
>
> - ??v? ? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
> - /(_)\ ?Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
> - ?^ ^ ? GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
> - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
> - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
> - KDE Brasil Member
> - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group
> - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Evan Leibovitch<evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> Alex Kink wrote:
>>> A bit lame that it says Tux on his tummy but nevertheless:
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Tux-Penguin-Official-Source-Mascot/dp/B001ESLQLY
>>
>> This foam-rubber stress releiver has often been used for corporate toys
>> with many belly logos. I have one of these from IBM (blue jacket and
>> tie), one from Oracle (in chain mail armour), and plain ones from Corel
>> and SGI.
>>
>> There is a blank-tummy version at
>> http://www.kleargear.com/2102.html
>>
>> - Evan
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 18:29:08 2009
From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:29:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <1eea116a0908241111n5e8e3215t4e6c687c81138be2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com>
 <1eea116a0908241111n5e8e3215t4e6c687c81138be2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0908241327450.10866@dei.propagation.net>


http://www.google.com/products?q=tux+linux

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009, Alex Kink wrote:

> A bit lame that it says Tux on his tummy but nevertheless:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Tux-Penguin-Official-Source-Mascot/dp/B001ESLQLY
>
> Regards,
> Alex Kink
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 6:35 AM, John Miles <jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> Ok - a very silly question:
>>
>> Is there is a good place online, or perhaps locally to purchase a Linux
>> "Tux" figurine of some sort?
>> We have a coop student finishing her term, and instead of some corporate
>> stamped cheesy gift, I thought Tux would be an excellent choice.
>> Thanks,
>> JohnM
>>
>

-- 

Scott C. Ripley
416.738.6357
http://www.scottripley.com
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 19:14:38 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:14:38 -0400
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0908241327450.10866-JzPMZpuvwjZwl9in86tRcNHuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com> 
	<1eea116a0908241111n5e8e3215t4e6c687c81138be2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0908241327450.10866@dei.propagation.net>
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908241214w6147d754o7b9959bcbf1225c0@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 14:29, Scott C. Ripley<scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> http://www.google.com/products?q=tux+linux
>
> --
>
> Scott C. Ripley
> 416.738.6357
> http://www.scottripley.com


There's one in every crowd!

-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 20:20:20 2009
From: redrocketyamaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (dave jackson)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:20:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Lenovo's stance on Vista  REFUND :- (
Message-ID: <3164.15961.qm@web31308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

g'day TLUGers,

There's bad&good[?] news
-the lennovo rep told me there is no Vista refund on our T400 order,
but 
'Lenovo will mail you a FREE license upgrade to Windows 7
 if you buy a Lenovo laptop or desktop with an eligible Windows Vista? version between June 26, 2009 and January 31, 2010.'

http://lenovo.com/us/en/windows7/

-here's one IT stalwart who won't take it:
http://www.geek.com/articles/news/freebsd-developer-sues-lenovo-over-windows-license-refund-refusal-20090817/

cheers,
dave





      __________________________________________________________________
Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 20:37:22 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:37:22 -0400
Subject: Lenovo's stance on Vista  REFUND :- (
In-Reply-To: <3164.15961.qm-j5JW32t3wmqvuULXzWHTWIglqE1Y4D90QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org>
References: <3164.15961.qm@web31308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A92FA02.80101@alteeve.com>

dave jackson wrote:
> g'day TLUGers,
> 
> There's bad&good[?] news
> -the lennovo rep told me there is no Vista refund on our T400 order,
> but 
> 'Lenovo will mail you a FREE license upgrade to Windows 7
>  if you buy a Lenovo laptop or desktop with an eligible Windows Vista? version between June 26, 2009 and January 31, 2010.'
> 
> http://lenovo.com/us/en/windows7/
> 
> -here's one IT stalwart who won't take it:
> http://www.geek.com/articles/news/freebsd-developer-sues-lenovo-over-windows-license-refund-refusal-20090817/
> 
> cheers,
> dave

Well, what do you do if you don't accept the EULA? Seems pretty cut and 
dry for me. Bah. I miss the days IBM was behind Thinkpads... :( 
(admittedly, this may not have changed)

Madi
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 20:51:01 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:51:01 -0400
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <4A92B5EC.5070100-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A92B5EC.5070100@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <20090824205101.GB23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 11:46:52AM -0400, Glen Strom wrote:
> ThinkGeek has stuffed Tux dolls.
>
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/plush/288e/

I have the 12" one.  It's really cute.  It normally sits on my monitor
at work.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 21:01:55 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:01:55 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <4A92DE56.5020304-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com> <4A92DE56.5020304@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <20090824210155.GC23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 02:39:18PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> If you're ignorant about Python, on what basis did you decide that you
> don't like it? If you say "enforced whitespace", I'll be sure to bring
> tar and feathers to the next TLUG meeting in which you're in attendance. :)

Python is certainly a nice language to work with (in most cases) and
has some lovely extensions available for it (I love pygame).

Unfortunately python is also an evolving language and is perfectly
willing to destroy backwards compatibility while evolving.  My wife ran
into the disaster that is python3 a few days ago trying to figure out why
print statements weren't working on one of the UofT lab machines and why
the numpy extension was completely broken.  Well someone had installed
python 3.0 as the default python on the machine and print statements are
no more (replaced by print() functions) and numpy hasn't even started
to get ported to python3.  So when you use python, beware of upgrades.

Not that it is any worse than what STL and namespaces did to C++
compatiblity, or what some perl upgrades have done (well python3 probably
is worse than any single perl upgrade ever has been so far).

> I considered Ruby when I was considering various Python-based frameworks
> a few years ago. I opted to stick with Python for a few reasons.
> 
> 1. Python was/is more mature. It's seen as a fringe language by some so
> if Python is on the fringe, Ruby is even more so. I didn't want to be
> that far on the fringe.

Seeing the changelist for python3 I no longer think of python as mature.

> 2. Python had better Unicode support at the time. Ruby had no Unicode
> support to speak of.

It does do that rather well.

> 3. The English Ruby docs weren't as extensive or as good as the Python
> docs I found. I suppose if I could read Japanese, that might have helped.
> 
> 4. I found Ruby's syntax to be a mishmash of Python and Perl, with the
> worst parts of both.

That sounds painful (I have never cared to look at ruby, so I can't
really comment on that).

> Having said all that, had I not started using Python first, I may have
> been happy with Ruby.
> 
> Since you already know how to program, I don't see how this is such a
> big commitment. Asking others for their opinions on this is like asking,
> "What kind of tea do you like? I'd like to try your favourite kind."
> Actually, I have a story on that. A few years ago, I bought some tea
> that I loved from Nasr Fine Foods, which has, sadly, been going downhill
> for a while. I never saw it there again. A few months ago, I saw the
> same tea at Arz Bakery, which is attracting disaffected Nasr shoppers,
> but it was the same story when I returned to buy some more. I asked the
> manager if he could order more and he told me that he couldn't but
> recommended some Lebanese brand, Horse's Head Tea, a name evocative of
> the infamous scene in The Godfather. He told me it was a very
> high-quality tea and that it was very good. It might have been a
> high-quality tea but I thought it tasted awful. Clearly, some things are
> an acquired taste.

Yeah learning a language is generally no big deal if you actually know
how to program.  A programming language is just a tool.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 21:06:57 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:06:57 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <4A92DE71.90208-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com> <200908232243.32563.amarjan@pobox.com> <4A92DE71.90208@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <20090824210657.GD23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 02:39:45PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> Perhaps it's because they're written in a language with a notoriously
> poor track record. In the article "Risk report: Four years of Red Hat
> Enterprise Linux 4"
> <http://magazine.redhat.com/2009/03/10/risk-report-four-years-of-red-hat-enterprise-linux-4/>,
> you'll notice that only one language gets a category onto itself, PHP.

I love using PHP for little web pages.  I am also very aware of just
how easy it is to create a security disaster using PHP if you don't know
what you are doing and try to be clever.

For example something a "clever" person might try:

$pagetype = $_GET['pagetype'];
include($pagetype);
...

Of course their other page would have a menu passing in a fed different
page types to then include the code for that pagetype in the right place.

Unfortunately (and conveniently in some cases I suppose), python permits things such as:
include("http://mysite.com/somecode.php");

Add that to the above, and see what you just did.  Scary.

The fact in old php4 versions all POST/GET arguments were automatically
turned into global variables of the same name... yikes.  Doesn't do that
anymore fortunately.

Still a nice language though.  Just dangerous if you don't know what
you are doing.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 21:07:56 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:07:56 -0400
Subject: data recovery
In-Reply-To: <7b85931d0908240903u1742d932rb061e036b889395b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7b85931d0908240903u1742d932rb061e036b889395b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090824210756.GE23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:03:29PM -0400, Robert F. Kennedy wrote:
> I've got a qnap ts-109 II Pro NAS drive that has some data on it that
> I'd like to recover but its
> undergone a few minutes of formating by the qnap server. The qnap folk
> use ext3 but much to mychagrin it is a modified version. I've got a
> boot OS from them but the drive won't show up when I do fdisk -l.
> 
> There is a small file on this disk that would be a lot of work to redo
> - anyone that can help recover this please contact me by email
> rfkennedy at gmail.com or by telephone 647-989-2345.

What kind of file?

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 22:04:59 2009
From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:04:59 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <1250913448.27057.4.camel@desktop>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1250913448.27057.4.camel@desktop>
Message-ID: <32f6a8880908241504y3e3f9112raca5dd2c6a5f53e5@mail.gmail.com>

How is this one can anyone say?

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1815470&csid=ITD&body=MAIN#detailspecs

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:57 PM, Keith Mastin<kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-08-10 at 13:16 -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote:
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I am wanting to use a UPS for 2 servers at work. One is linux one is
>> ESX3.5i. I am hoping to have it stablize the current (we have problems
>> with power surges) as well as tell the machines to turn off if there
>> is no power.
>>
>> I am looking for compatibility with Linux (so the Linux server
>> understands the call from the UPS to shut it down as well as ESX).
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>
> See powerware.com. Check out the series 9 for full power control (a bit
> pricey), otherwise go through the lower level series. Priced reasonably,
> serviced locally by the airport (APC is serviced in Rhode Island), and
> excellent quality service and support.
>
> HTH
>
> Kind regards,
> Keith
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>



-- 



Dave Germiquet
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From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 24 23:52:19 2009
From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:52:19 -0400
Subject: Tux Figurine
In-Reply-To: <20090824205101.GB23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <f7a05bcd0908240335m3a837331p1e1e97b052809efc@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A92B5EC.5070100@teksavvy.com>
	 <20090824205101.GB23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <f7a05bcd0908241652ydc71693if6613efbb301f27a@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the sources!
I had no idea there was a Google Product search.

It was really interesting to have a student with no Linux experience at all
do pretty darn well in a matter of months.

John

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Lennart Sorensen <
lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 11:46:52AM -0400, Glen Strom wrote:
> > ThinkGeek has stuffed Tux dolls.
> >
> > http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/plush/288e/
>
> I have the 12" one.  It's really cute.  It normally sits on my monitor
> at work.
>
> --
> Len Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 00:45:18 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:45:18 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19@mail.gmail.com>

This is excellent feedback, each response has raised more things to
consider. I was not looking for comparison on language, but lacking
any development/usage experience I wanted to know more about secondary
things available to these framework on a macro level. For instance
addition modules or tools that would make working with one framework
more productive. Of course great documentation is also required, any
module without good docs is useless to me.

I guess I am looking for a framework that will allow me to stitch
functionality together easily. I don't want to write my own CMS,
however I also don't want a site to look like it's a patch work of say
a wiki site, forum, blog, main landing page. If I later decide to
change the layout, add or remove functionality I would like to do it
in an efficient and painless manner from what's already out there.

I guess I still want flexibility from a programmer's prescriptive and
be able to create my own plumbing if needed. I would rather avoid
having to fight existing code to make it do something else or take
away things I don't want or need. If the framework makes this
difficult than I would not consider it.

As for my ignorance, I think I've learned from the past that as I
learn more, I find out how little I really know =) ... so I am trying
to at my older age to use wisdom and the knowledge and experience of
others to help me save both time and energy rediscovering things,
issues, problems, etc, I don't want to be committed so much in my
project that it becomes 'more' painful to go in another direction when
I find out something for myself.

About Python, being a C++ developer I like using my braces { } to
denote code blocks, or any other visual indicator like 'end'

I maybe be wrong about this, but read that python (only) uses
indentation to denote code blocks? I just don't want to be looking at
code that may have several nested blocks trying to line up code
blocks. That is what is stopping me from liking Python, that were I
stopped looking at Python. If I am wrong about this let me know.

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 01:28:56 2009
From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:28:56 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880908241504y3e3f9112raca5dd2c6a5f53e5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1250913448.27057.4.camel@desktop>
	 <32f6a8880908241504y3e3f9112raca5dd2c6a5f53e5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <daf2a09e0908241828v15417c67y77d5958615d9796b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Dave Germiquet <davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>wrote:

> How is this one can anyone say?
>
>
> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1815470&csid=ITD&body=MAIN#detailspecs
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:57 PM, Keith Mastin<kmastin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2009-08-10 at 13:16 -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote:
> >> Hello All,
> >>
> >> I am wanting to use a UPS for 2 servers at work. One is linux one is
> >> ESX3.5i. I am hoping to have it stablize the current (we have problems
> >> with power surges) as well as tell the machines to turn off if there
> >> is no power.
> >>
> >> I am looking for compatibility with Linux (so the Linux server
> >> understands the call from the UPS to shut it down as well as ESX).
> >>
> >> Any suggestions?
> >
> > See powerware.com. Check out the series 9 for full power control (a bit
> > pricey), otherwise go through the lower level series. Priced reasonably,
> > serviced locally by the airport (APC is serviced in Rhode Island), and
> > excellent quality service and support.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Keith
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> >
>

I have an Ultra and it works fine in Windows. It's suppose to have Linux
Support but according to the reviews it doesn't work. I haven't tried it
myself yet.

Personally, I wouldn't use it for a server. I would go with PowerWare as
they are the best available.

-- 
Mark Lane <lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 01:45:02 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:45:02 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com>
 <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090825014502.GA6193@yam.witteman.ca>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 08:45:18PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote:

>About Python, being a C++ developer I like using my braces { } to
>denote code blocks, or any other visual indicator like 'end'
>
>I maybe be wrong about this, but read that python (only) uses
>indentation to denote code blocks? I just don't want to be looking at
>code that may have several nested blocks trying to line up code
>blocks. That is what is stopping me from liking Python, that were I
>stopped looking at Python. If I am wrong about this let me know.

I think you will find that you are wrong, and it will not be a problem.
My experience is that I was already using an auto-indenting editor (vim,
but all good editors do this, and most of the bad ones too) and I just
stopped noticing that I wasn't using braces.

I have had other people claim to be skeptical, but once they got going
it was the same as it always was - they didn't change their indentation,
they just didn't use a character to augment the indentation they were
already doing.
-- 

yours,

William

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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 02:39:19 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:39:19 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <20090824210155.GC23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com> <4A92DE56.5020304@dinamis.com> <20090824210155.GC23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4A934ED7.8050106@dinamis.com>

On 24/08/09 05:01 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> Unfortunately python is also an evolving language and is perfectly
> willing to destroy backwards compatibility while evolving.  My wife ran
> into the disaster that is python3 a few days ago trying to figure out why
> print statements weren't working on one of the UofT lab machines and why
> the numpy extension was completely broken.  Well someone had installed
> python 3.0 as the default python on the machine and print statements are
> no more (replaced by print() functions) and numpy hasn't even started
> to get ported to python3.  So when you use python, beware of upgrades.

I am not aware of any Linux distro for which Python 3 is the default.
You have to explicitly install it. Python 2.6, which is the latest
version prior to 3, will be supported for many years before we have to
worry about porting code to Python 3. At the moment, Python 3 is a
non-event for me at the moment.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 03:09:13 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:09:13 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <20090825014502.GA6193-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com>
	 <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090825014502.GA6193@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908242009r2956095fk394f1ef9a3dfe8ed@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 9:45 PM, William O'Higgins
Witteman<william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 08:45:18PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote:
>
>>About Python, being a C++ developer I like using my braces { } to
>>denote code blocks, or any other visual indicator like 'end'
>>
>>I maybe be wrong about this, but read that python (only) uses
>>indentation to denote code blocks? I just don't want to be looking at
>>code that may have several nested blocks trying to line up code
>>blocks. That is what is stopping me from liking Python, that were I
>>stopped looking at Python. If I am wrong about this let me know.
>
> I think you will find that you are wrong, and it will not be a problem.
> My experience is that I was already using an auto-indenting editor (vim,
> but all good editors do this, and most of the bad ones too) and I just
> stopped noticing that I wasn't using braces.
>
> I have had other people claim to be skeptical, but once they got going
> it was the same as it always was - they didn't change their indentation,
> they just didn't use a character to augment the indentation they were
> already doing.
> --

Thanks William, I was thinking this might be the case about
indentation and my (silly) bias. Unfortunately I have seen too many
bad C/C++ code that has been well indented yet has too many nesting to
make it readable.

Also with many IDEs one can jump to the start and end of a code block,
since the IDE can match braces. I don't see how this is possible with
Python style code? If I am writing my own code, or the blocks are
small or not nested than I have no issues, but from my experience this
is not always the case.

If I am going to inspect and use community code, I don't want poorly
factored nested code to get in my way. I think that is my bigger
concern.

I guess this is one of those (personal) things when you get over it
you get over it, but I am not there =) .... maybe I need to look at
some production python code to convince myself and not let something
like this get in the way of using a (possibly) good framework.

Thanks for sharing your similar experience, I am sure I am not the 1st
or last developer to have this gripe about python.

>
> yours,
>
> William

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 03:32:07 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:32:07 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com> <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A935B37.7090401@dinamis.com>

On 24/08/09 08:45 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> This is excellent feedback, each response has raised more things to
> consider. I was not looking for comparison on language, but lacking
> any development/usage experience I wanted to know more about secondary
> things available to these framework on a macro level. For instance
> addition modules or tools that would make working with one framework
> more productive. Of course great documentation is also required, any
> module without good docs is useless to me.
> 
> I guess I am looking for a framework that will allow me to stitch
> functionality together easily. I don't want to write my own CMS,


Define "CMS".


> however I also don't want a site to look like it's a patch work of say
> a wiki site, forum, blog, main landing page. If I later decide to
> change the layout, add or remove functionality I would like to do it
> in an efficient and painless manner from what's already out there.


The question isn't "if" all of the aforementioned products will allow
you create "seamless" sites. It's "How?".


> I guess I still want flexibility from a programmer's prescriptive and
> be able to create my own plumbing if needed. I would rather avoid
> having to fight existing code to make it do something else or take
> away things I don't want or need. If the framework makes this
> difficult than I would not consider it.


This is why when we spoke, I suggested to you Drupal and Django were
good fits for what you wanted to do but as you told me about what was
important to you, I suggested Django was probably the better choice. I
find it's more developer-friendly than Drupal. Until you have done some
actual development with both, it is very difficult for you to understand
what I'm talking about when I talk about "flow". Django has a certain
flow to it that is hard to describe. I find the whole code, test, debug
cycle in PHP tedious. I don't want to output stuff to the browser just
to prototype something. I want to be able to prototype in a shell
interactively. With Django, typing "python manage.py shell" while in the
project directory will drop you into the Python shell from where you can
import anything in PYTHONPATH (imports bring into the current
namespace), and start prototyping. You get instant feedback. If you have
an error in your code, you have meaningful stack traces. You can inspect
objects to get their docstring, their attributes, and their functions. I
found that ipython accelerated how quickly I learned Django because the
barriers to prototyping something were so low. I could just whip
something up quickly and see the results without much fuss. If you go
through the Django tutorial, you'll notice that they start you off with
writing code interactively.


> As for my ignorance, I think I've learned from the past that as I
> learn more, I find out how little I really know =) ... so I am trying
> to at my older age to use wisdom and the knowledge and experience of
> others to help me save both time and energy rediscovering things,
> issues, problems, etc, I don't want to be committed so much in my
> project that it becomes 'more' painful to go in another direction when
> I find out something for myself.
> 
> About Python, being a C++ developer I like using my braces { } to
> denote code blocks, or any other visual indicator like 'end'
> 
> I maybe be wrong about this, but read that python (only) uses
> indentation to denote code blocks? I just don't want to be looking at
> code that may have several nested blocks trying to line up code
> blocks. That is what is stopping me from liking Python, that were I
> stopped looking at Python. If I am wrong about this let me know.


I *knew* you were going to say that, which is why I told you I'd bring
tar and feathers. :) That is a very silly reason to dislike a language.
As Lennart (I think) posed once, "What do you have against readability?"
Indentation to denote code blocks enforces a consistency in the code
that makes it easier to read. That doesn't mean someone can't write
obfuscated Python code. It just means that you're unlikely to see "holy
wars" being fought over which is the better curly brace style,

foo {
  bla}

foo
{
  bla
}

foo {bla}

foo {
 bla
 }

foo {
  bla
}

Any decent editor, as William pointed out, and the various Python shells
(I really like ipython), or the IDEs, which I don't use, deal with
indentation for you. Get past this curly brace fixation of yours and I
think you'll be amazed at how quickly you can become productive with Python.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 04:00:30 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:00:30 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <4A935B37.7090401-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com>
	 <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A935B37.7090401@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908242100j58b049f1v4b2c6237991af3a1@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 11:32 PM, CLIFFORD
ILKAY<clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On 24/08/09 08:45 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote:
>> This is excellent feedback, each response has raised more things to
>> consider. I was not looking for comparison on language, but lacking
>> any development/usage experience I wanted to know more about secondary
>> things available to these framework on a macro level. For instance
>> addition modules or tools that would make working with one framework
>> more productive. Of course great documentation is also required, any
>> module without good docs is useless to me.
>>
>> I guess I am looking for a framework that will allow me to stitch
>> functionality together easily. I don't want to write my own CMS,
>
>
> Define "CMS".
>
>
>> however I also don't want a site to look like it's a patch work of say
>> a wiki site, forum, blog, main landing page. If I later decide to
>> change the layout, add or remove functionality I would like to do it
>> in an efficient and painless manner from what's already out there.
>
>
> The question isn't "if" all of the aforementioned products will allow
> you create "seamless" sites. It's "How?".

Very true, this is more like what I meant to say.

>
>
>> I guess I still want flexibility from a programmer's prescriptive and
>> be able to create my own plumbing if needed. I would rather avoid
>> having to fight existing code to make it do something else or take
>> away things I don't want or need. If the framework makes this
>> difficult than I would not consider it.
>
>
> This is why when we spoke, I suggested to you Drupal and Django were
> good fits for what you wanted to do but as you told me about what was
> important to you, I suggested Django was probably the better choice. I
> find it's more developer-friendly than Drupal. Until you have done some
> actual development with both, it is very difficult for you to understand
> what I'm talking about when I talk about "flow". Django has a certain
> flow to it that is hard to describe. I find the whole code, test, debug
> cycle in PHP tedious. I don't want to output stuff to the browser just
> to prototype something. I want to be able to prototype in a shell
> interactively. With Django, typing "python manage.py shell" while in the
> project directory will drop you into the Python shell from where you can
> import anything in PYTHONPATH (imports bring into the current
> namespace), and start prototyping. You get instant feedback. If you have
> an error in your code, you have meaningful stack traces. You can inspect
> objects to get their docstring, their attributes, and their functions. I
> found that ipython accelerated how quickly I learned Django because the
> barriers to prototyping something were so low. I could just whip
> something up quickly and see the results without much fuss. If you go
> through the Django tutorial, you'll notice that they start you off with
> writing code interactively.
>

You know what, this key point really hit me today and ya I get it. I
recall our phone conversation, but it didn't sink in then. This is
totally the way I want to code, debug and try things out. It's much
faster than the Drupal/php way of trying to do the same thing.


>
>> As for my ignorance, I think I've learned from the past that as I
>> learn more, I find out how little I really know =) ... so I am trying
>> to at my older age to use wisdom and the knowledge and experience of
>> others to help me save both time and energy rediscovering things,
>> issues, problems, etc, I don't want to be committed so much in my
>> project that it becomes 'more' painful to go in another direction when
>> I find out something for myself.
>>
>> About Python, being a C++ developer I like using my braces { } to
>> denote code blocks, or any other visual indicator like 'end'
>>
>> I maybe be wrong about this, but read that python (only) uses
>> indentation to denote code blocks? I just don't want to be looking at
>> code that may have several nested blocks trying to line up code
>> blocks. That is what is stopping me from liking Python, that were I
>> stopped looking at Python. If I am wrong about this let me know.
>
>
> I *knew* you were going to say that, which is why I told you I'd bring
> tar and feathers. :)

Ha! when I read your earlier response I burst out laughing and knew
you knew what I might be thinking!!! You're right I need to get over
this silly bias or misconception about unreadable code, just as
William also pointed out =) ... that is why it's good to discuss these
things and bring them out into the open.


> That is a very silly reason to dislike a language.
> As Lennart (I think) posed once, "What do you have against readability?"
> Indentation to denote code blocks enforces a consistency in the code
> that makes it easier to read. That doesn't mean someone can't write
> obfuscated Python code. It just means that you're unlikely to see "holy
> wars" being fought over which is the better curly brace style,
>
> foo {
> ?bla}
>
> foo
> {
> ?bla
> }
>
> foo {bla}
>
> foo {
> ?bla
> ?}
>
> foo {
> ?bla
> }
>
> Any decent editor, as William pointed out, and the various Python shells
> (I really like ipython), or the IDEs, which I don't use, deal with
> indentation for you. Get past this curly brace fixation of yours and I
> think you'll be amazed at how quickly you can become productive with Python.

This is good to know, more ignorance getting swept aside! Nice one
about the religious brace wars.

> --
> Regards,
>
> Clifford Ilkay
> Dinamis
> 1419-3266 Yonge St.
> Toronto, ON
> Canada ?M4N 3P6
>
> <http://dinamis.com>
> +1 416-410-3326

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 04:39:45 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:39:45 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908242009r2956095fk394f1ef9a3dfe8ed-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com>	 <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19@mail.gmail.com>	 <20090825014502.GA6193@yam.witteman.ca> <a05162a70908242009r2956095fk394f1ef9a3dfe8ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A936B11.5080308@dinamis.com>

On 24/08/09 11:09 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> Thanks William, I was thinking this might be the case about
> indentation and my (silly) bias. Unfortunately I have seen too many
> bad C/C++ code that has been well indented yet has too many nesting to
> make it readable.


Don't extrapolate from your bad C/C++ experiences to Python. For some
reason, I don't recall "too many nesting" as being a problem in Python.
I just haven't seen it.


> Also with many IDEs one can jump to the start and end of a code block,
> since the IDE can match braces. I don't see how this is possible with
> Python style code? If I am writing my own code, or the blocks are
> small or not nested than I have no issues, but from my experience this
> is not always the case.


It takes a lot less code to do things in Python than it does in C or C++
so you don't have as much code in which to have to jump around. Besides,
any editor that understands Python can do code folding.


> If I am going to inspect and use community code, I don't want poorly
> factored nested code to get in my way. I think that is my bigger
> concern.
> 
> I guess this is one of those (personal) things when you get over it
> you get over it, but I am not there =) .... maybe I need to look at
> some production python code to convince myself and not let something
> like this get in the way of using a (possibly) good framework.


from django.db import models

class Page(models.Model):
    name = models.CharField(max_length=100, unique=True)
    slug = models.SlugField('Friendly URL', unique=True)
    sort_order = models.IntegerField(default=0)
    keywords = models.TextField(max_length=255, blank=True, null=True)
    content = models.TextField(blank=True, null=True)

That is actual code from a working site from an app we called "cms".
(Gee, I wonder what it does? :) In Django, it all centers around the
"model". Above, we're declaring a Page class which has a few attributes.
We'd need a database connection string which "python manage.py syncdb"
will use to generate the database objects based upon the model above.
That will create a database table called "page" with columns "id, name,
slug, sort_order, keywords, content". Unless you specify otherwise, it
will create an "id" column as the primary key. The effect of the
"unique", "max_length", and "null" attributes on the database should be
obvious. The effect of "blank=true" is on the auto-generated CRUD
(Create, Read, Update, Delete) forms in the admin interface.

To turn that into a complete web site, we would need some way of
dispatching URL requests to a function that fetches the appropriate
pages from the database and passes the results onto a page template. The
URL dispatching can be done via regular expression like this:

(r'^$', 'get_page', {'page_name': 'Home'}),
(r'^blog/$', 'get_page', {'page_name': 'Blog'}),
(r'^contact/$', 'get_page', {'page_name': 'Contact'}),

"get_page" is a function to which we pass a dictionary with the page
name and it looks something like this:

def get_page(request, page_name):
  the_page = Page.objects.get(name=page_name)
  return render_to_response('myapp/a_page.html', {'the_page': the_page})

That function is doing the equivalent of "select * from page where
page.name = page_name" where page_name was passed as a parameter to the
function from the URL dispatcher and it passes the result, i.e. the_page
object, to a page template called "a_page.html". In most Django apps,
the ORM (Object Relational Mapper) is sufficient. If you need to use raw
SQL for performance or cases where the ORM doesn't have a good (or any)
way of doing expressing your query, you can easily do it.

Let's look at the page template now.

{% extends "base.html" %}
{% block content_area %}
  <div class="main-content">
  {% if the_page.content %}
    {{the_page.content}}
  {% else %}
    <p>No page content available.</p>
  {% endif %}
  </div>
{% endblock %}

The first line is an example of template inheritance. "base.html" is the
base page template that has the common page elements for the entire
site. We'll look at that in a moment. The things enclosed within a pair
of curly braces and a per cent sign are template tags. The things
enclosed within a pair of curly braces are variables. If we hit the
"Contact" page, as long as something is returned by the "get_page"
function, it will be passed to our template. Let's look at the content
of "base.html" now.

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
usual stuff that goes in the head section - could (and do) use
templating here too
</head>

<body>
Page Banner markup goes here
Navbar markup goes here
{% block content_area %}
{% endblock %}
Footer markup goes here
</body>
</html>

Everywhere you see "something goes here", you can use templating too,
and we do but for the sake of this example, it's not important. The
important bit is the content_area block tag. On base.html, it's empty.
In a_page.html, it's populated by page.content. On some other page, say
product_listing.html, it could have a list of products.

Obviously, all of the above is excerpted and simplified for the sake of
brevity.

What I just described above is arguably a "CMS". It took a trivial
amount of code to create. How the rendered output of a_page.html looks
and whether you use fancy Javascript or not is entirely up to you. You
style it with CSS and if you want to use Javascript, pick your favourite
library and use it. You have highly-functional CRUD forms that are
auto-generated from which you can now enter page content. At the moment,
you'd have to enter markup into the "content" field but it's pretty easy
to add your choice of a Javascript rich-text editor to forms.

Note that you will never see "a_page.html" anywhere in the URL. That's
just an internal name for one of the page templates we have. We use the
.html extension so that you can open and edit the file using whatever
HTML editor you use. People have created Textmate bundles for Django
tags. I have created the equivalent in Quanta, though I don't really use
them as much as I thought I would.


> Thanks for sharing your similar experience, I am sure I am not the 1st
> or last developer to have this gripe about python.


Those that get past the "I love curly braces" stage of denial eventually
go on to love Python. :)
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
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From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 09:56:40 2009
From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:56:40 -0400
Subject: OT: Dissolve the CRTC
Message-ID: <7c50d3570908250256u1a12d64ar3fc83ea5bc4fd76c@mail.gmail.com>

I found out about this petition last week, it's probably not going to
go anywhere like most petitions do, but here is a link to the site:

http://dissolvethecrtc.ca/

-- 
Sincerely,

Michael Lauzon
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 11:21:28 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:21:28 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908242009r2956095fk394f1ef9a3dfe8ed-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com>
 <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19@mail.gmail.com>
 <20090825014502.GA6193@yam.witteman.ca>
 <a05162a70908242009r2956095fk394f1ef9a3dfe8ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090825112128.GA30286@yam.witteman.ca>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 11:09:13PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote:

>Thanks William, I was thinking this might be the case about
>indentation and my (silly) bias. Unfortunately I have seen too many
>bad C/C++ code that has been well indented yet has too many nesting to
>make it readable.

Don't blame badly thought-out code on the block delimiter.

>Also with many IDEs one can jump to the start and end of a code block,
>since the IDE can match braces. I don't see how this is possible with
>Python style code? If I am writing my own code, or the blocks are
>small or not nested than I have no issues, but from my experience this
>is not always the case.

This is a non-issue, trust me.  The indentation is by definition
consistent, so finding the beginning of a block is trivial.

>If I am going to inspect and use community code, I don't want poorly
>factored nested code to get in my way. I think that is my bigger
>concern.

I think you'll find that the extant code is not as bad as you think,
partly because you can get so much done with so little code.
-- 

yours,

William

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From rfkennedy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 11:27:55 2009
From: rfkennedy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Robert F. Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:27:55 -0400
Subject: data recovery
In-Reply-To: <20090824210756.GE23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <7b85931d0908240903u1742d932rb061e036b889395b@mail.gmail.com> <20090824210756.GE23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <B6DA5C64-062C-41B3-9CA7-65AF2AE328C4@gmail.com>

Hi Len,

It is a quickbook file.  .qbw

Regards,
Robert
rfkennedy-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
+1-647-989-2345
Sent from phone

On 2009-08-24, at 5:07 PM, lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart  
Sorensen) wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:03:29PM -0400, Robert F. Kennedy wrote:
>> I've got a qnap ts-109 II Pro NAS drive that has some data on it that
>> I'd like to recover but its
>> undergone a few minutes of formating by the qnap server. The qnap  
>> folk
>> use ext3 but much to mychagrin it is a modified version. I've got a
>> boot OS from them but the drive won't show up when I do fdisk -l.
>>
>> There is a small file on this disk that would be a lot of work to  
>> redo
>> - anyone that can help recover this please contact me by email
>> rfkennedy at gmail.com or by telephone 647-989-2345.
>
> What kind of file?
>
> -- 
> Len Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 12:00:56 2009
From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:00:56 -0400
Subject: OT - Comedy Tonight
Message-ID: <f646b91f0908250500ibb41cf4jb5d42bbb3123746f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I've got some spare free tickets to see the Ron James Show
(http://www.ronjames.ca/) this evening. The show will be recorded at
the CBC building at Front St. and John St.. Those on this list who
would be interested in seeing this show, and can be at the CBC
building by 5:30, please get in touch with me 416-487-9613

Colin.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 13:08:33 2009
From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:08:33 -0400
Subject: OT: Dissolve the CRTC
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908250256u1a12d64ar3fc83ea5bc4fd76c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908250256u1a12d64ar3fc83ea5bc4fd76c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f646b91f0908250608w7c863b48obdbf01aa2860817c@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/25/09, Michael Lauzon <mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I found out about this petition last week, it's probably not going to
> go anywhere like most petitions do, but here is a link to the site:
>
> http://dissolvethecrtc.ca/

Been there, put my name down...

Hummm, speaking of other politics... I live in St. Paul riding, which
means I will be going to the polls next month in a by-election. At the
moment I am feeling somewhat grumpy towards all the political
parties... Question is, what sort of open source friendly questions
should I be putting to the candidates seeking my vote?

Colin McGregor

> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael Lauzon
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 13:13:37 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:13:37 -0400
Subject: GTALUG now part of ICANN
Message-ID: <4A93E381.5010909@telly.org>

It's official.

As of today, GTALUG is officially recognized as an At-Large Structure
(ALS) of ICANN, the international body with the mandate to oversee
Internet domain names and IP number allocations.

I wish to congratulate GTALUG for taking the action to participate, and
specifically to Myles and Gordon for putting forward an exemplary
application. Thanks to them, it's been relatively quick progress from my
ICANN presentation at the April TLUG meeting to today's formal welcoming.

With a planned massive expansion of "generic" top-level domains (to
compete with .com, .net, .biz, etc) and the ever-encroaching influence
of vested interests (including an aggressive trademark lobby and the
various sellers and resellers of domain names), having an active and
vigilant At-Large body is a must, and I welcome GTALUG's involvement.

More information on ICANN's At-Large community is available at
http://www.atlarge.icann.org/ and specifically on the North American
region (which in ICANN's regional division includes the ALSs from just
Canada and the US):
https://st.icann.org/naralo/index.cgi?naralo_icann_at_large_north_america

Evan Leibovitch
Chair, ICANN North American Region At-Large Organization (NARALO)
Occasional TLUG hanger-on
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 13:54:53 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:54:53 -0400
Subject: data recovery
In-Reply-To: <B6DA5C64-062C-41B3-9CA7-65AF2AE328C4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <7b85931d0908240903u1742d932rb061e036b889395b@mail.gmail.com> <20090824210756.GE23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <B6DA5C64-062C-41B3-9CA7-65AF2AE328C4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090825135453.GF23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 07:27:55AM -0400, Robert F. Kennedy wrote:
> It is a quickbook file.  .qbw

That's unfortunate.  If it was a common and well documented file, there
are tools that almost always manage to recover things like that (like
photorec from the testdisk package, which does lots of photo video and
audio filetypes).

Any idea of the size of a quickbook file?  Do you have other quickbook
files that could show what the header looks like?

It might still be possible to locate the file though.  There is a good
chance with ext3 that the file will have been stored consequtively, which
means you just have to find the start of the file and dump from there.

How big of a disk is this?

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 14:00:17 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:00:17 -0400
Subject: suggestions on UPS for linux / esx
In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880908241504y3e3f9112raca5dd2c6a5f53e5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908101016u6a4b2c14x8a7eb0c12b0d3763@mail.gmail.com> <1250913448.27057.4.camel@desktop> <32f6a8880908241504y3e3f9112raca5dd2c6a5f53e5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090825140017.GG23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 06:04:59PM -0400, Dave Germiquet wrote:
> How is this one can anyone say?
> 
> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1815470&csid=ITD&body=MAIN#detailspecs

It isn't sine wave output which is going to make any decent power supply
less efficient and potentially unhappy.

The charge time is surprisingly high compared to a quality UPS.

Why are only 4 outlets powered on something that claims that much
capacity?

I also wonder why tiger direct is the only place I have ever seen
that brand.

Personally I am just waiting for the next time dell puts the APC SU1500
on sale for around $200 again so I can get a UPS for my wife's desktop.
I can't justify paying $600 for it though, so I will just be patient.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 14:05:23 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:05:23 -0400
Subject: OT: Dissolve the CRTC
In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570908250256u1a12d64ar3fc83ea5bc4fd76c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908250256u1a12d64ar3fc83ea5bc4fd76c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090825140523.GH23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 05:56:40AM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote:
> I found out about this petition last week, it's probably not going to
> go anywhere like most petitions do, but here is a link to the site:
> 
> http://dissolvethecrtc.ca/

How about fixing the CRTC instead?  Wouldn't that be possible?

I know that some of the things the FCC does in the US would be nice to
have here from a consumers point of view (mandetory unencrypted digital
feeds of local stations on cable for example.  Would make cable TV a
lot more useful to me.)

But yes the CRTC really doesn't seem to care one bit about what is in
the interest of consumers at all.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 14:07:36 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:07:36 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com> <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090825140736.GI23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 08:45:18PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> This is excellent feedback, each response has raised more things to
> consider. I was not looking for comparison on language, but lacking
> any development/usage experience I wanted to know more about secondary
> things available to these framework on a macro level. For instance
> addition modules or tools that would make working with one framework
> more productive. Of course great documentation is also required, any
> module without good docs is useless to me.
> 
> I guess I am looking for a framework that will allow me to stitch
> functionality together easily. I don't want to write my own CMS,
> however I also don't want a site to look like it's a patch work of say
> a wiki site, forum, blog, main landing page. If I later decide to
> change the layout, add or remove functionality I would like to do it
> in an efficient and painless manner from what's already out there.
> 
> I guess I still want flexibility from a programmer's prescriptive and
> be able to create my own plumbing if needed. I would rather avoid
> having to fight existing code to make it do something else or take
> away things I don't want or need. If the framework makes this
> difficult than I would not consider it.
> 
> As for my ignorance, I think I've learned from the past that as I
> learn more, I find out how little I really know =) ... so I am trying
> to at my older age to use wisdom and the knowledge and experience of
> others to help me save both time and energy rediscovering things,
> issues, problems, etc, I don't want to be committed so much in my
> project that it becomes 'more' painful to go in another direction when
> I find out something for myself.
> 
> About Python, being a C++ developer I like using my braces { } to
> denote code blocks, or any other visual indicator like 'end'
> 
> I maybe be wrong about this, but read that python (only) uses
> indentation to denote code blocks? I just don't want to be looking at
> code that may have several nested blocks trying to line up code
> blocks. That is what is stopping me from liking Python, that were I
> stopped looking at Python. If I am wrong about this let me know.

If you want to avoid pain, then you probably want to avoid all of the
frameworks.  They are often simply too narrow in focus to be flexible
enough for what you might want to do later, or they are so broad that they
don't actually help you do anything and just add bloat and complexity.

Just write nice clean documented modular code and future maintainance
shouldn't be a big deal.  Of course be willing to admit you screwed up
and start over with what you have learned if it comes down to that later
as well.

-- 
Len Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 14:10:03 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:10:03 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <20090825014502.GA6193-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com> <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19@mail.gmail.com> <20090825014502.GA6193@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <20090825141003.GJ23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 09:45:02PM -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 08:45:18PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> 
> >About Python, being a C++ developer I like using my braces { } to
> >denote code blocks, or any other visual indicator like 'end'
> >
> >I maybe be wrong about this, but read that python (only) uses
> >indentation to denote code blocks? I just don't want to be looking at
> >code that may have several nested blocks trying to line up code
> >blocks. That is what is stopping me from liking Python, that were I
> >stopped looking at Python. If I am wrong about this let me know.
> 
> I think you will find that you are wrong, and it will not be a problem.
> My experience is that I was already using an auto-indenting editor (vim,
> but all good editors do this, and most of the bad ones too) and I just
> stopped noticing that I wasn't using braces.
> 
> I have had other people claim to be skeptical, but once they got going
> it was the same as it always was - they didn't change their indentation,
> they just didn't use a character to augment the indentation they were
> already doing.

I didn't really look at python for years because I thought mandetory
indentation wasn't the language's business.

Now having used it I realize that in python the code works the way it
appears to work, rather than the way braces make it work.  This helps
to avoid mistakes.  Python simply requires the code to be consistent
which as a programmer you should want too.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 14:15:07 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:15:07 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908242009r2956095fk394f1ef9a3dfe8ed-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com> <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19@mail.gmail.com> <20090825014502.GA6193@yam.witteman.ca> <a05162a70908242009r2956095fk394f1ef9a3dfe8ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090825141507.GK23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 11:09:13PM -0400, Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> Thanks William, I was thinking this might be the case about
> indentation and my (silly) bias. Unfortunately I have seen too many
> bad C/C++ code that has been well indented yet has too many nesting to
> make it readable.
> 
> Also with many IDEs one can jump to the start and end of a code block,
> since the IDE can match braces. I don't see how this is possible with
> Python style code? If I am writing my own code, or the blocks are
> small or not nested than I have no issues, but from my experience this
> is not always the case.
> 
> If I am going to inspect and use community code, I don't want poorly
> factored nested code to get in my way. I think that is my bigger
> concern.

Which would you rather have:

function foo
        while (something)
                if (something else)
                        print "Hello\n";

or

function foo {
while (something) {
if (something else) {
print "Hello\n";
}
}
}

or perhaps simply:

function foo
  while (something)
    if (something else)
      print "Hello\n";

Personally I am one of those people that like tab indentation, since
then I can adjust it to what I like without changing the code.
Some people don't like it, but oh well.

> I guess this is one of those (personal) things when you get over it
> you get over it, but I am not there =) .... maybe I need to look at
> some production python code to convince myself and not let something
> like this get in the way of using a (possibly) good framework.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your similar experience, I am sure I am not the 1st
> or last developer to have this gripe about python.

Braces are NOT helpful in making it have a better overview.  And teaching
an editor that indentation is what defines blocks is trivial.

The best way to avoid too deep nesting is to avoid too deep nesting.
Braces or indentation doesn't matter, it's still the same level of
nesting.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 14:20:18 2009
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:20:18 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <4A934ED7.8050106-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com> <4A92DE56.5020304@dinamis.com> <20090824210155.GC23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A934ED7.8050106@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <20090825142018.GL23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 10:39:19PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> I am not aware of any Linux distro for which Python 3 is the default.
> You have to explicitly install it. Python 2.6, which is the latest
> version prior to 3, will be supported for many years before we have to
> worry about porting code to Python 3. At the moment, Python 3 is a
> non-event for me at the moment.

Well apparently some people install it.  It is simply something to keep
in mind.  I would not expect perl5 to perl6 to be a trivial transition
either.

Certainly debian even in unstable still uses 2.5 as default, with 3.1
offered as an optional package (which I doubt even installs as the
default python on the system).

-- 
Len Sorensen
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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 14:58:04 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:58:04 -0700
Subject: OT: Dissolve the CRTC
In-Reply-To: <20090825140523.GH23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908250256u1a12d64ar3fc83ea5bc4fd76c@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090825140523.GH23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908250758g41679b3eq9ba5c8f35ab051ad@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:05 AM, Lennart
Sorensen<lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 05:56:40AM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote:
>> I found out about this petition last week, it's probably not going to
>> go anywhere like most petitions do, but here is a link to the site:
>>
>> http://dissolvethecrtc.ca/
>
> How about fixing the CRTC instead? ?Wouldn't that be possible?
>
> I know that some of the things the FCC does in the US would be nice to
> have here from a consumers point of view (mandetory unencrypted digital
> feeds of local stations on cable for example. ?Would make cable TV a
> lot more useful to me.)
>
> But yes the CRTC really doesn't seem to care one bit about what is in
> the interest of consumers at all.
>
> --
> Len Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

Dissolution seems rather unlikely, but then again fixing the CRTC
without rebuilding it (and firing  a lot of the corrupt
upper-echelons) seems fairly impossible as well. If anything did
happen it would most likely involve a golden-parachute-of-severance
for said upper-management only to have them replaced by something not
much better.
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 15:00:57 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:00:57 -0400
Subject: OT: Dissolve the CRTC
In-Reply-To: <20090825140523.GH23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908250256u1a12d64ar3fc83ea5bc4fd76c@mail.gmail.com> <20090825140523.GH23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4A93FCA9.9040605@alteeve.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 05:56:40AM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote:
>> I found out about this petition last week, it's probably not going to
>> go anywhere like most petitions do, but here is a link to the site:
>>
>> http://dissolvethecrtc.ca/
> 
> How about fixing the CRTC instead?  Wouldn't that be possible?
> 
> I know that some of the things the FCC does in the US would be nice to
> have here from a consumers point of view (mandetory unencrypted digital
> feeds of local stations on cable for example.  Would make cable TV a
> lot more useful to me.)
> 
> But yes the CRTC really doesn't seem to care one bit about what is in
> the interest of consumers at all.

Just look at their latest decision against indy ISPs reselling Bell 
service. Good chance there /won't be/ any competition for the consumer's 
business anymore after it goes into effect in November.

The CRTC is nothing more than a rubber stamp for Bell and Rogers these 
days. Fix or dissolve, I don't really care any more. They're worse than 
useless.

Madi
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From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 15:09:28 2009
From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:09:28 -0400
Subject: OT: Dissolve the CRTC
In-Reply-To: <20090825140523.GH23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908250256u1a12d64ar3fc83ea5bc4fd76c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090825140523.GH23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20090825110928.2267f719@teksavvy.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote: 

> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 05:56:40AM -0400, Michael Lauzon wrote:
> > I found out about this petition last week, it's probably not going to
> > go anywhere like most petitions do, but here is a link to the site:
> > 
> > http://dissolvethecrtc.ca/  
> 
> How about fixing the CRTC instead?  Wouldn't that be possible?
> 
> I know that some of the things the FCC does in the US would be nice to
> have here from a consumers point of view (mandetory unencrypted digital
> feeds of local stations on cable for example.  Would make cable TV a
> lot more useful to me.)
> 
> But yes the CRTC really doesn't seem to care one bit about what is in
> the interest of consumers at all.

More and more, I'm thinking that rather than even bother, just ignore these
jokers. The thing is, government will never ever represent reality. None of
these people will ever have the slightest idea about what needs to be done
beyond making more money for their friends at the country club.

What will _always_ work is the inevitable tendency of the end user to find ways
of circumventing the idiocy that is implemented by our corporate betters, and
making technology work the way it is supposed to.

The Snafu Principle will prevail :-)

-- 
J
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From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 15:51:57 2009
From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:51:57 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908242100j58b049f1v4b2c6237991af3a1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com>	 <a05162a70908241745s3d13136cjbcb6d67a67ae8f19@mail.gmail.com>	 <4A935B37.7090401@dinamis.com> <a05162a70908242100j58b049f1v4b2c6237991af3a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A94089D.7090803@rogers.com>

Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> 
> You know what, this key point really hit me today and ya I get it. I
> recall our phone conversation, but it didn't sink in then. This is
> totally the way I want to code, debug and try things out. It's much
> faster than the Drupal/php way of trying to do the same thing.

If you really want to code using "debug and try things out" style, then 
you should use Pier/Seaside/Smalltalk. Many developers, due to their 
pre-conceived notions and habits, have a hard time adjusting to the 
Smalltalk syntax and way of coding. If you can get past that, then 
you'll be well rewarded, IMHO. Seaside is a web application framework 
built on Smalltalk, and Pier is a CMS built on top of Seaside. A link to 
start you off is: www.piercms.com

-- 
Yanni
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 17:51:29 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:51:29 -0400
Subject: OT: Website CMS
In-Reply-To: <20090825142018.GL23701-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908231836o26810f03l49e0ddf92420f6bb@mail.gmail.com> <4A92DE56.5020304@dinamis.com> <20090824210155.GC23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4A934ED7.8050106@dinamis.com> <20090825142018.GL23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <4A9424A1.60400@dinamis.com>

On 25/08/09 10:20 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 10:39:19PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
>> I am not aware of any Linux distro for which Python 3 is the default.
>> You have to explicitly install it. Python 2.6, which is the latest
>> version prior to 3, will be supported for many years before we have to
>> worry about porting code to Python 3. At the moment, Python 3 is a
>> non-event for me at the moment.
> 
> Well apparently some people install it.

Only because they don't know any better and figure that 3 being greater
than 2.6, they should install 3. (I like my redundant use of "at the
moment" above. Must have been tired.)

> It is simply something to keep in mind.

Indeed.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Aug 25 19:48:35 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:48:35 -0700
Subject: OT: Dissolve the CRTC
In-Reply-To: <4A93FCA9.9040605-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <7c50d3570908250256u1a12d64ar3fc83ea5bc4fd76c@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090825140523.GH23701@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	 <4A93FCA9.9040605@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908251248p4e618009jf06587ed82be11f1@mail.gmail.com>

It seems that perhaps they're going to check into things a bit more,
hopefully in response to the recent petitions etc against their
idiocy.

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/08/24/crtc-bell-internet-downloading.html?ref=rss

I especially like these questions:
# The discrepancies between Bell's usage data and those of
wholesalers, which in some cases differed by 800 per cent.

800% is a big number. Anyone know if these numbers are publicly
available and/or digested in some usable format?

# Why wholesale customers will be subjected to being "restricted,
suspended or disconnected" for over-usage if they will already be
paying for excess usage.

Double-dipping (or rather double-penalizing). The *why* is because the
CRTC essentially gave Bell the green-light to hose the other ISPS
already, and they're going to do as much as they can to cripple the
competition.
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 26 04:21:00 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:21:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Open source MP3 players
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908260014400.24744@redclaw.mimosa.com>

Open source MP3 players are (you know, things like the iPod) are
slightly difficult due to the MP3 patent (which may or may not be
valid somewhere).

A bigger problem was that the manufacturers wanted to have
PaysForSure certification for Windows and support Windows Media DRM.

But now that almost all the PaysForSure audio providers have been
killed by Microsoft, what value is there in supporting that DRM?  Are
there other ways to get MS DRMed content?

If not, and the majority of manufacturers cannot get into the iTunes
or Zune club, why don't they embrace open source?  Or at least let us
use Rock Box?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PlaysForSure.

I particularly like this part:

    A 2005 court case strongly criticised the wording of a Microsoft
    licensing agreement related to portable devices[9]. The license
    prohibited makers of portable devices compatible with Windows
    Media Player from using non-Microsoft audio encoding formats.
    Microsoft indicated that the wording of their license was poorly
    written due to an oversight by a junior Microsoft employee.
    Microsoft quickly amended their stringently worded license
    agreement at the judge's behest.

    In a possibly related decision, iriver dropped support for Ogg
    Vorbis from their latest H10 portable music player (no longer
    available in retail) in order to market it with PlaysForSure
    certification. iriver has since added support for Ogg Vorbis (up
    to Q10),[10] as well as a non-PlaysForSure service, Audible, to
    their Clix line of portable media players, which remain
    PlaysForSure-certified.
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From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 26 15:23:53 2009
From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (tug)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:23:53 -0400
Subject: Mongo and Cassandra databases
Message-ID: <4A955389.9070203@gmail.com>

I will still come back to my trivial MySQL / Postgres question.. but in 
the mean time, I've been asked to look at MongoDB 
(http://www.mongodb.org/display/DOCS/Home) and Cassandra 
(http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/) for possible inclusion in a 
project (and no, there is specific project in mind)

These products look to me like things for quick turn around killer 
webapps that are intended to virally take over the world, and would be 
risky to use unless you had nothing to loose in the first place... any 
heartfelt opinions?


tug


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From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 26 15:37:20 2009
From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:37:20 -0400
Subject: pstools (server) for Linux
Message-ID: <200908261137.22191.icanprogram@295.ca>

I know that ssh/scp can do all the things that Windows folks do with pstools.    

Nonetheless is there a Linux TCP/IP server which can allow the Windows pstools 
to transparently manage a remote Linux server,  in much the same way as SAMBA 
allows the file system to look transparent?

Thanks in advance.

bob
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From kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 26 18:34:56 2009
From: kalibslack-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Marcelo Cavalcante)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:34:56 -0300
Subject: pstools (server) for Linux
In-Reply-To: <200908261137.22191.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200908261137.22191.icanprogram@295.ca>
Message-ID: <1089a0320908261134q48a3fa50y273d82413e39b431@mail.gmail.com>

Hello..

I Didn't get it...

What you want is transfer files from Windows to Linux/Linux to Windows
using ssh/scp? o.O
If yes, you could try WinSCP to connect to a remote Linux machine and
transfer your files.

It's what you want? Forgive me if not.

Cheers

---

-  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
- /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
-  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
- TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
- Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
- KDE Brasil Member
- TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group
- http://www.marcelocavalcante.net



On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:37 PM, bob 295<icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I know that ssh/scp can do all the things that Windows folks do with pstools.
>
> Nonetheless is there a Linux TCP/IP server which can allow the Windows pstools
> to transparently manage a remote Linux server, ?in much the same way as SAMBA
> allows the file system to look transparent?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> bob
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 26 19:06:50 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:06:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: pstools (server) for Linux
In-Reply-To: <200908261137.22191.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200908261137.22191.icanprogram@295.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908261455540.24744@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: bob 295 <icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org>
| 
| I know that ssh/scp can do all the things that Windows folks do with pstools.    
| 
| Nonetheless is there a Linux TCP/IP server which can allow the Windows pstools 
| to transparently manage a remote Linux server,  in much the same way as SAMBA 
| allows the file system to look transparent?

pstools seem to be a collection of command-line tools for Windows NT.
Inspired by UNIX commands.

As far as I know, it makes more sense to use the originals rather than
the imitation.  Note that the imitation is modified to fit into the
Windows NT worldview.  Not something that Linux needs or wants.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896649.aspx

One novel aspect is that these tools each can reach across a network
to perform their actions on another machine.  Most Linux tools require
that they be run on the machine that they are addressing.  Hence the
scp reference.

You could emulate pstools with shell scripts if you are really attached
to them.  There would be some loss in translation with Linux
approximating NT approximating UNIX

	Runs on:

	    * Client: Windows XP and higher.
	    * Server: Windows Server 2003 and higher. 

I have no idea what they mean by "higher".  Perhaps Linux :-)
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From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 26 19:06:18 2009
From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:06:18 -0400
Subject: pstools (server) for Linux
In-Reply-To: <1089a0320908261134q48a3fa50y273d82413e39b431-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200908261137.22191.icanprogram@295.ca> <1089a0320908261134q48a3fa50y273d82413e39b431@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908261506.19311.icanprogram@295.ca>

I have an existing piece of Windows code which calls pstools under the hood to 
do things like list processes running,  kill a specific process and then 
restart it.

The process in question has moved from a Windows platform to a Linux server 
and I'm trying to plumb back the previous functionality.

Certainly ssh/scp can work from the Windows side but that involves starting up 
separate processes etc. rather than using the "seamless" way it used to work.

bob


On Wednesday 26 August 2009 02:34 pm, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote:
> Hello..
>
> I Didn't get it...
>
> What you want is transfer files from Windows to Linux/Linux to Windows
> using ssh/scp? o.O
> If yes, you could try WinSCP to connect to a remote Linux machine and
> transfer your files.
>
> It's what you want? Forgive me if not.
>
> Cheers
>
> ---
>
> -  ?v?   Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
> - /(_)\  Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
> -  ^ ^   GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
> - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
> - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
> - KDE Brasil Member
> - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group
> - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:37 PM, bob 295<icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > I know that ssh/scp can do all the things that Windows folks do with
> > pstools.
> >
> > Nonetheless is there a Linux TCP/IP server which can allow the Windows
> > pstools to transparently manage a remote Linux server, ?in much the same
> > way as SAMBA allows the file system to look transparent?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > bob
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 26 21:32:24 2009
From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:32:24 -0400
Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique rather than 
	language
Message-ID: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

I am currently looking to expand my programming knowledge from more
than College. College has taught me the basics of programming, Object
Oriented concepts however not how to properly use them. I have learned
alot of my concepts from looking at other people's programs.

I am looking to take a course which gives me information on how to
properly structure code and use Object Oriented programming in day to
day use.

Can anyone make a suggestion on where to find a course with more
advance concepts of programming? Language is not really specific
however I'd prefer java/c/php.

Basically so I'm programming the correct way, instead of just putting
code together to do a specific task.

Dave Germiquet
--
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From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 26 21:45:21 2009
From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:45:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: new kernel newbie column
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0908261744490.3319@localhost>


  a short one this week:  http://cli.gs/qWza4W.

rday
--

========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day                               Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

        Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry.

Web page:                                          http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter:                                       http://twitter.com/rpjday
========================================================================
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From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 26 22:23:54 2009
From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:23:54 -0400
Subject: possible small contract to implement this Linux-Windows TCP/IP protocol in Windows VB
Message-ID: <200908261823.55342.icanprogram@295.ca>

I have a client who needs this implemented in VB to enable a larger project to 
go forward.  I am strictly a Linux developer and don't even have a Windows 
box any more.

This is the protocol:

http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl/tclSurrogate.html

It has already been implemented in C, Tcl/Tk, Python and JAVA.    About 7 
years ago a trusted SIMPL user implemented it in VB and reported it worked 
well.  Alas he never got around to contributing the VB implementation back to 
the SIMPL project and his hard drive was later wiped and reused.

If you are (or anyone you know is) interested contact me offlist.

bob
PS.
The main SIMPL open source project site is: 
http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl
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From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 26 22:36:33 2009
From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:36:33 -0700
Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique 
	rather than language
In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7ac602420908261536n68fe8909qb05eaefd76c749e5@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Dave Germiquet<davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Basically so I'm programming the correct way, instead of just putting
> code together to do a specific task.

I would say that the skill you're looking to learn is one that every
good developer keeps learning anew, every single day.  As such, I
don't have any suggestions on courses, and I wonder if any good ones
really exist.  I think you're asking for a course that can teach you
"good taste" in design.  In my somewhat limited experience, good taste
is partly innate, and partly like wisdom--learnable only through long
experience.  My recommendation is to both read and write as much code
as you can.

As I think the Marines say, "luck is the residue of good design".  I
think that has significant meaning in reverse--good design leads to
luck.  What I mean is, code that's well designed is only proven to be
well designed when you come back to it "later" and it's easy to adapt
it to a new purpose.  To the extent that I have any taste, I learned
it in a hands-on fashion by adapting existing code to support new
features and struggling through it.  Eventually, you start to see the
struggles before you have to actually do any struggling and you get
better at building things in an extensible manner from the get-go.  Of
course, as with any complicated skill, you'll probably swing too far
for a while and build the occasional highly-abstracted, fully
dependency-injected, 100% localized shell script for some one-off task
that you'll never do again.  But fixing that comes with experience,
too, and, if nothing else, you'll have learned how to localize a Bash
script so you can do it again when it's actually necessary.

Ian
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From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 26 23:17:34 2009
From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:17:34 -0400
Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique 
	rather than language
In-Reply-To: <7ac602420908261536n68fe8909qb05eaefd76c749e5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com>
	 <7ac602420908261536n68fe8909qb05eaefd76c749e5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99a6c38f0908261617n715ebae7s5cbc66f7c402648@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Ian Petersen<ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Dave Germiquet<davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> Basically so I'm programming the correct way, instead of just putting
>> code together to do a specific task.
>
> I would say that the skill you're looking to learn is one that every
> good developer keeps learning anew, every single day. ?As such, I
> don't have any suggestions on courses, and I wonder if any good ones
> really exist.

I think I have to agree with this sentiment.  The courses I took
(about 10 years ago) were good, but mostly a re-iteration of stuff I'd
already learned on my own.  Kind of left me wanting more.

One recommendation I'd offer up though is Design Patterns - Elements
of Reusable Object-Oriented Software[1].  Being primarily a reference
book (with a useful case study in Chapter 2) it's a little dry, but
very informative.  Wikipedia[2] has an article on it as well which
might be worth a look.

I've also heard that the Heads-First Design Patterns[3] book is good
and makes for more interesting reading.

Best of luck in your studies.
- Scott.


[1] http://bit.ly/CuKwm or
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Design-Patterns-Elements-Reusable-Object-Gamma-Helm-Johnson/9780201633610-item.html?ref=Search+Books%3a+%2527Design+Patterns%2527%3aComputers

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_Patterns_(book)

[3] http://bit.ly/9xvNO or
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Head-First-Design-Patterns-Eric-Freeman/9780596007126-item.html?ref=Search+Books%3a+%2527Design+Patterns%2527%3aComputers

-- 
  Scott Elcomb
  http://www.psema4.com/   @psema4
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From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Aug 26 23:37:54 2009
From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:37:54 -0500
Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique 
	rather than language
In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a3ed2cba0908261637i50757d1hc6744ae4f7a4fe7f@mail.gmail.com>

If you want to code well, do a lot of coding. Read code. Read Linux sources
- either kernel or modules. If you find the code easy to understand, ask
yourself why and try to incorporate the good practices that you identify in
your own code. If you find it hard to read, ask yourself why, and try to
avoid the bad practices that you identify in your own code.

Read good books on programming. Read "The mythical man month" by Fred
Brooks, "Peopleware" by Tom DeMarco (very good for humility - I'll let you
work out why), "The psychology of computer programming" by Gerald Weinberg
and, above all, "Code Complete" by Steve Mcconnel. I'm sure others can
recommend other, equally good, books but from personal experience I can
recommend these as both easy to read cover-to-cover and full of wisdom and
useful advice for the programmer.

Finally, observe the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) principle and, to
paraphrase Einstein, make your code as simple as it can be, and no simpler.
When you have finished writing something (be it a clause, a function or a
program), ask yourself "Is this code really clever?". If your answer is
"Yes!", ask yourself "Does it really need to be clever?". If your answer is
"Yes!", rewrite the damn thing. Unnecessarily clever code is bad code,
period. Once you get past the meaningless gobblydegook written by computer
language illiterates who call themselves coders (and practice will almost
certainly remedy this problem in anyone inherently capable of programming a
computer), the most common kind of bad code by far is "clever" code.

I wouldn't spend time and money on a course until I'd done the above, if I
were you, you can get far more bang for your buck/time "just doing it".

Good luck, cheers, Colin (the other one)

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Dave Germiquet <davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I am currently looking to expand my programming knowledge from more
> than College. College has taught me the basics of programming, Object
> Oriented concepts however not how to properly use them. I have learned
> alot of my concepts from looking at other people's programs.
>
> I am looking to take a course which gives me information on how to
> properly structure code and use Object Oriented programming in day to
> day use.
>
> Can anyone make a suggestion on where to find a course with more
> advance concepts of programming? Language is not really specific
> however I'd prefer java/c/php.
>
> Basically so I'm programming the correct way, instead of just putting
> code together to do a specific task.
>
> Dave Germiquet
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 00:54:09 2009
From: tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (tug)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:54:09 -0400
Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique
 rather than language
In-Reply-To: <a3ed2cba0908261637i50757d1hc6744ae4f7a4fe7f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com> <a3ed2cba0908261637i50757d1hc6744ae4f7a4fe7f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A95D931.1060508@gmail.com>

I agree with everything that's been written - I've recently acquired a 
team of lesser experienced C++ developers. I hadn't realised how much 
I'd learned in the past 25 years.

Fundamentals are not being learned... You should experience Assembler 
(6502 was mine, then 80C51...) - write half a program, get the brain to 
hurt, be in awe of people who wrote complete systems in assembler, and 
move up the food chain.

C and C++ are important steps because C++ developers can migrate to 
Java, the other direction is harder. Developers coming from non C / C++ 
world often don't understand data properly. They think memory is 
something handled by the operating system, and think that smart pointers 
are all you need :S - this may be a perfectly sufficient solution, but 
understanding what's happening underneath is important to understanding 
everything.

Code problems are almost always an inability to understand what someone 
else's code is doing, not that the code is not fast enough. Write simple 
functional code, and measure performance. IF the solution is not fast 
enough, learn to measure bottlenecks, and pick the low hanging fruit. 
Experience will teach you what to avoid next time.

Add comments, and lay the code out to be readable  - disk space is 
cheap, monitors are big, compilers are efficient, and doing something in 
one line of code is not clever. Oh and put rude comments about existing 
code - the next person after you will also need some light relief!

tug

colin davidson wrote:
> If you want to code well, do a lot of coding. Read code. Read Linux 
> sources - either kernel or modules. If you find the code easy to 
> understand, ask yourself why and try to incorporate the good practices 
> that you identify in your own code. If you find it hard to read, ask 
> yourself why, and try to avoid the bad practices that you identify in 
> your own code.
>
> Read good books on programming. Read "The mythical man month" by Fred 
> Brooks, "Peopleware" by Tom DeMarco (very good for humility - I'll let 
> you work out why), "The psychology of computer programming" by Gerald 
> Weinberg and, above all, "Code Complete" by Steve Mcconnel. I'm sure 
> others can recommend other, equally good, books but from personal 
> experience I can recommend these as both easy to read cover-to-cover 
> and full of wisdom and useful advice for the programmer.
>
> Finally, observe the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) principle and, to 
> paraphrase Einstein, make your code as simple as it can be, and no 
> simpler. When you have finished writing something (be it a clause, a 
> function or a program), ask yourself "Is this code really clever?". If 
> your answer is "Yes!", ask yourself "Does it really need to be 
> clever?". If your answer is "Yes!", rewrite the damn thing. 
> Unnecessarily clever code is bad code, period. Once you get past the 
> meaningless gobblydegook written by computer language illiterates who 
> call themselves coders (and practice will almost certainly remedy this 
> problem in anyone inherently capable of programming a computer), the 
> most common kind of bad code by far is "clever" code.
>
> I wouldn't spend time and money on a course until I'd done the above, 
> if I were you, you can get far more bang for your buck/time "just 
> doing it".
>
> Good luck, cheers, Colin (the other one)
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Dave Germiquet 
> <davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org <mailto:davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>> wrote:
>
>     Hello All,
>
>     I am currently looking to expand my programming knowledge from more
>     than College. College has taught me the basics of programming, Object
>     Oriented concepts however not how to properly use them. I have learned
>     alot of my concepts from looking at other people's programs.
>
>     I am looking to take a course which gives me information on how to
>     properly structure code and use Object Oriented programming in day to
>     day use.
>
>     Can anyone make a suggestion on where to find a course with more
>     advance concepts of programming? Language is not really specific
>     however I'd prefer java/c/php.
>
>     Basically so I'm programming the correct way, instead of just putting
>     code together to do a specific task.
>
>     Dave Germiquet
>     --
>     The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>     TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>     How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
>

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 01:10:12 2009
From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:10:12 -0400
Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia
Message-ID: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com>


Hey all,

In a recent update the kernel was upgraded to 2.6.30, but when I rebooted there
was no corresponding nvidia module, so for now I've been using 2.6.26.

I thought there might be a more recent nvidia module in unstable, so I tried
that but I get:

node1:/home/joehill# aptitude -t unstable install nvidia-glx
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Reading extended state information      
Initializing package states... Done
Writing extended state information... Done
Reading task descriptions... Done         
The following packages are BROKEN:
  nvidia-glx 
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  gnome-vfs-obexftp{u} libevolution5.0-cil{u} libhesiod0{u} libkadm5srv5{u} 
  libopal3.6.1{u} libpam-cracklib{u} libpt2.6.1{u} libusb-1.0-0{u} 
  libzephyr3{u} nvidia-kernel-2.6.26-1-686{u} 
  nvidia-kernel-2.6.26-2-686-bigmem{u} padevchooser{u} paman{u} paprefs{u} 
  pavumeter{u} pulseaudio-module-gconf{u} pulseaudio-module-zeroconf{u} 
  toolame{u} 
1 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 18 to remove and 426 not upgraded.
Need to get 7129kB of archives. After unpacking 33.2MB will be freed.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
  nvidia-glx: Depends: nvidia-kernel-185.18.31 which is a virtual package.
The following actions will resolve these dependencies:

Remove the following packages:
nvidia-glx

Score is -9881

Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]

Does this mean that nvidia-glx will be upgraded? It seems to be saying it will
be removed...

-- 
J
--
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 01:57:23 2009
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:57:23 -0400
Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique 
	rather than language
In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0908261857r8080b78i56fcde8c09ab3822@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Dave Germiquet<davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I am currently looking to expand my programming knowledge from more
> than College. College has taught me the basics of programming, Object
> Oriented concepts however not how to properly use them. I have learned
> alot of my concepts from looking at other people's programs.

Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years is a pretty good presentation on this...
http://norvig.com/21-days.html

- Get interested...
- Talk to other programmers; read other programs
- Program
- School
- Work on projects with other programmers
- Work on projects AFTER other programmers
- Learn at least a half dozen programming languages
- Learn a bit about your computer's low level instructions
- Get involved with a language standardization effort
- Have the good sense to get off that ASAP :-)

Some very good suggestions there...

(note that Peter Norvig has been noted as author of Practical
Artificial Intelligence Programming, an immensely good book on Common
Lisp...  These days, he seems to be more "Pythonic" in his
involvements at Google...)
-- 
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
Ogden Nash  - "The trouble with a kitten is that when it grows up,
it's always a cat." -
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/o/ogden_nash.html
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 02:07:56 2009
From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:07:56 -0500
Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique 
	rather than language
In-Reply-To: <4A95D931.1060508-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com>
	 <a3ed2cba0908261637i50757d1hc6744ae4f7a4fe7f@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A95D931.1060508@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a3ed2cba0908261907h198e74fek103a7603486ae45a@mail.gmail.com>

One minor nit - on myself - on clever code, the answer to the second
question was supposed to be "No!".

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:54 PM, tug <tug.williams-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I agree with everything that's been written - I've recently acquired a team
> of lesser experienced C++ developers. I hadn't realised how much I'd learned
> in the past 25 years.
>
> Fundamentals are not being learned... You should experience Assembler (6502
> was mine, then 80C51...) - write half a program, get the brain to hurt, be
> in awe of people who wrote complete systems in assembler, and move up the
> food chain.
>
> C and C++ are important steps because C++ developers can migrate to Java,
> the other direction is harder. Developers coming from non C / C++ world
> often don't understand data properly. They think memory is something handled
> by the operating system, and think that smart pointers are all you need :S -
> this may be a perfectly sufficient solution, but understanding what's
> happening underneath is important to understanding everything.
>
> Code problems are almost always an inability to understand what someone
> else's code is doing, not that the code is not fast enough. Write simple
> functional code, and measure performance. IF the solution is not fast
> enough, learn to measure bottlenecks, and pick the low hanging fruit.
> Experience will teach you what to avoid next time.
>
> Add comments, and lay the code out to be readable  - disk space is cheap,
> monitors are big, compilers are efficient, and doing something in one line
> of code is not clever. Oh and put rude comments about existing code - the
> next person after you will also need some light relief!
>
> tug
>
> colin davidson wrote:
>
>> If you want to code well, do a lot of coding. Read code. Read Linux
>> sources - either kernel or modules. If you find the code easy to understand,
>> ask yourself why and try to incorporate the good practices that you identify
>> in your own code. If you find it hard to read, ask yourself why, and try to
>> avoid the bad practices that you identify in your own code.
>>
>> Read good books on programming. Read "The mythical man month" by Fred
>> Brooks, "Peopleware" by Tom DeMarco (very good for humility - I'll let you
>> work out why), "The psychology of computer programming" by Gerald Weinberg
>> and, above all, "Code Complete" by Steve Mcconnel. I'm sure others can
>> recommend other, equally good, books but from personal experience I can
>> recommend these as both easy to read cover-to-cover and full of wisdom and
>> useful advice for the programmer.
>>
>> Finally, observe the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) principle and, to
>> paraphrase Einstein, make your code as simple as it can be, and no simpler.
>> When you have finished writing something (be it a clause, a function or a
>> program), ask yourself "Is this code really clever?". If your answer is
>> "Yes!", ask yourself "Does it really need to be clever?". If your answer is
>> "Yes!", rewrite the damn thing. Unnecessarily clever code is bad code,
>> period. Once you get past the meaningless gobblydegook written by computer
>> language illiterates who call themselves coders (and practice will almost
>> certainly remedy this problem in anyone inherently capable of programming a
>> computer), the most common kind of bad code by far is "clever" code.
>>
>> I wouldn't spend time and money on a course until I'd done the above, if I
>> were you, you can get far more bang for your buck/time "just doing it".
>>
>> Good luck, cheers, Colin (the other one)
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Dave Germiquet <davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org<mailto:
>> davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>> wrote:
>>
>>    Hello All,
>>
>>    I am currently looking to expand my programming knowledge from more
>>    than College. College has taught me the basics of programming, Object
>>    Oriented concepts however not how to properly use them. I have learned
>>    alot of my concepts from looking at other people's programs.
>>
>>    I am looking to take a course which gives me information on how to
>>    properly structure code and use Object Oriented programming in day to
>>    day use.
>>
>>    Can anyone make a suggestion on where to find a course with more
>>    advance concepts of programming? Language is not really specific
>>    however I'd prefer java/c/php.
>>
>>    Basically so I'm programming the correct way, instead of just putting
>>    code together to do a specific task.
>>
>>    Dave Germiquet
>>    --
>>    The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>>    TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>    How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>
>>
>>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 14:11:18 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:11:18 -0700
Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia
In-Reply-To: <20090826211012.53e96d21-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908270711y1ce8ff1bq312ec37383dec57@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:10 PM, JoeHill<joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> In a recent update the kernel was upgraded to 2.6.30, but when I rebooted there
> was no corresponding nvidia module, so for now I've been using 2.6.26.
>
> I thought there might be a more recent nvidia module in unstable, so I tried
> that but I get:
>
> node1:/home/joehill# aptitude -t unstable install nvidia-glx
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> Reading extended state information
> Initializing package states... Done
> Writing extended state information... Done
> Reading task descriptions... Done
> The following packages are BROKEN:
> ?nvidia-glx
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
> ?gnome-vfs-obexftp{u} libevolution5.0-cil{u} libhesiod0{u} libkadm5srv5{u}
> ?libopal3.6.1{u} libpam-cracklib{u} libpt2.6.1{u} libusb-1.0-0{u}
> ?libzephyr3{u} nvidia-kernel-2.6.26-1-686{u}
> ?nvidia-kernel-2.6.26-2-686-bigmem{u} padevchooser{u} paman{u} paprefs{u}
> ?pavumeter{u} pulseaudio-module-gconf{u} pulseaudio-module-zeroconf{u}
> ?toolame{u}
> 1 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 18 to remove and 426 not upgraded.
> Need to get 7129kB of archives. After unpacking 33.2MB will be freed.
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> ?nvidia-glx: Depends: nvidia-kernel-185.18.31 which is a virtual package.
> The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
>
> Remove the following packages:
> nvidia-glx
>
> Score is -9881
>
> Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]
>
> Does this mean that nvidia-glx will be upgraded? It seems to be saying it will
> be removed...
>
> --
> J
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>


Yes, it looks like it's removing nvidia-glx due to conflicts with
other packages on your system (maybe the newer kernel).

AFAIK, "nv" is the open-source module and "nvidia" is the proprietary
implementation (and last time I checked "nv" didn't support most
3d/acceleration features). If the driver from your distro doesn't
work, try downloading one straight from nvidia:

http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us


You'll need to turn off X to install, and run the downloaded (.run)
file from the CLI, but it may be a newer version that the conflicted
one in the distro.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 14:18:00 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:18:00 -0400
Subject: OT: Good Programming Courses Suggestions for technique 
	rather than language
In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <32f6a8880908261432i4a2847a4i3e5fe1192c782e39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908270718i5f1e43fbq96fd8cd75323ca5c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Dave Germiquet<davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I am currently looking to expand my programming knowledge from more
> than College. College has taught me the basics of programming, Object
> Oriented concepts however not how to properly use them. I have learned
> alot of my concepts from looking at other people's programs.
>
> I am looking to take a course which gives me information on how to
> properly structure code and use Object Oriented programming in day to
> day use.

Why not find an OpenSource project to join and help out in? See if you
might like WxWidget, join their forum, ask questions, not for you than
try some other project. I just picked this project out of thin air,
I've look at WxWidget and it's design is based on Windows MFC
framework which is a C++ project.

The real skill you will need to develop and one a lot of new
programmers overlook is learning how to read and understand someone
else code and more to the point extend functionality. Learn how to
debug someone else code and deconstruct it so you can see the design
using such techniques as UML modeling.

>
> Can anyone make a suggestion on where to find a course with more
> advance concepts of programming? Language is not really specific
> however I'd prefer java/c/php.

I would pick an OO language over a procedural language. You can always
program a procedural program in an OO language. If you come for a
procedural language background you will been hard pressed to
understand OO concepts let alone debug such programs when things like
virtual function and polymorphic behaviour come into play. I struggled
with this one for a while when I got started.

> Basically so I'm programming the correct way, instead of just putting
> code together to do a specific task.

Programming in a art ;) there are many ways to do the right and wrong
thing. You will get this from experience overtime as you get exposed
to other people's codes and concepts.

If you use the KISS principle, don't over design and your code is
functionally sound and well unit tested then you're in very good shape
IMHO.

> Dave Germiquet
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 14:54:39 2009
From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:54:39 -0400
Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia
In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0908270711y1ce8ff1bq312ec37383dec57-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com>
	<3a97ef0908270711y1ce8ff1bq312ec37383dec57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090827105439.30cc2aec@teksavvy.com>

Tyler Aviss wrote: 

> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:10 PM, JoeHill<joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hey all,
> >
> > In a recent update the kernel was upgraded to 2.6.30, but when I rebooted
> > there was no corresponding nvidia module, so for now I've been using 2.6.26.
> >
> > I thought there might be a more recent nvidia module in unstable, so I tried
> > that but I get:
> >
> > node1:/home/joehill# aptitude -t unstable install nvidia-glx
> > Reading package lists... Done
> > Building dependency tree
> > Reading state information... Done
> > Reading extended state information
> > Initializing package states... Done
> > Writing extended state information... Done
> > Reading task descriptions... Done
> > The following packages are BROKEN:
> > ?nvidia-glx
> > The following packages will be REMOVED:
> > ?gnome-vfs-obexftp{u} libevolution5.0-cil{u} libhesiod0{u} libkadm5srv5{u}
> > ?libopal3.6.1{u} libpam-cracklib{u} libpt2.6.1{u} libusb-1.0-0{u}
> > ?libzephyr3{u} nvidia-kernel-2.6.26-1-686{u}
> > ?nvidia-kernel-2.6.26-2-686-bigmem{u} padevchooser{u} paman{u} paprefs{u}
> > ?pavumeter{u} pulseaudio-module-gconf{u} pulseaudio-module-zeroconf{u}
> > ?toolame{u}
> > 1 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 18 to remove and 426 not upgraded.
> > Need to get 7129kB of archives. After unpacking 33.2MB will be freed.
> > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > ?nvidia-glx: Depends: nvidia-kernel-185.18.31 which is a virtual package.
> > The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
> >
> > Remove the following packages:
> > nvidia-glx
> >
> > Score is -9881
> >
> > Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]
> >
> > Does this mean that nvidia-glx will be upgraded? It seems to be saying it
> > will be removed...
> >
> 
> 
> Yes, it looks like it's removing nvidia-glx due to conflicts with
> other packages on your system (maybe the newer kernel).
> 
> AFAIK, "nv" is the open-source module and "nvidia" is the proprietary
> implementation (and last time I checked "nv" didn't support most
> 3d/acceleration features). If the driver from your distro doesn't
> work, try downloading one straight from nvidia:
> 
> http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us
> 
> 
> You'll need to turn off X to install, and run the downloaded (.run)
> file from the CLI, but it may be a newer version that the conflicted
> one in the distro.

That's the way I was doing it before, but of course every time I update the
kernel...

I was hoping to keep doing it the 'Debian Way', if possible. I think in this
case the driver is probably installable with apt, I just don't have enough
experience with it to understand what it's telling me to do :-\

-- 
J
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 16:16:46 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:16:46 -0400
Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia
In-Reply-To: <20090827105439.30cc2aec-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com>
 <3a97ef0908270711y1ce8ff1bq312ec37383dec57@mail.gmail.com>
 <20090827105439.30cc2aec@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <20090827161646.GA11002@yam.witteman.ca>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:54:39AM -0400, JoeHill wrote:

>That's the way I was doing it before, but of course every time I update the
>kernel...
>
>I was hoping to keep doing it the 'Debian Way', if possible. I think in this
>case the driver is probably installable with apt, I just don't have enough
>experience with it to understand what it's telling me to do :-\

I haven't checked today, but I think you'll find that the nVidia kernel
hasn't been provided yet for 2.6.30.  There is typically a lag or a few
weeks or months.

You have two choices - if you need 3D features, keep using your old
kernel for a while and when the nvidia2.6.30 kernel comes out you'll be
good to go.  The other choice is to use the 'nv' driver for a while.
-- 

yours,

William

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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 17:54:03 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:54:03 -0700
Subject: Kernel upgraded but not Nvidia
In-Reply-To: <20090827105439.30cc2aec-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20090826211012.53e96d21@teksavvy.com>
	 <3a97ef0908270711y1ce8ff1bq312ec37383dec57@mail.gmail.com>
	 <20090827105439.30cc2aec@teksavvy.com>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908271054p21b85ad1w437edabcd9e9d758@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:54 AM, JoeHill<joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Tyler Aviss wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:10 PM, JoeHill<joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hey all,
>> >
>> > In a recent update the kernel was upgraded to 2.6.30, but when I rebooted
>> > there was no corresponding nvidia module, so for now I've been using 2.6.26.
>> >
>> > I thought there might be a more recent nvidia module in unstable, so I tried
>> > that but I get:
>> >
>> > node1:/home/joehill# aptitude -t unstable install nvidia-glx
>> > Reading package lists... Done
>> > Building dependency tree
>> > Reading state information... Done
>> > Reading extended state information
>> > Initializing package states... Done
>> > Writing extended state information... Done
>> > Reading task descriptions... Done
>> > The following packages are BROKEN:
>> > ?nvidia-glx
>> > The following packages will be REMOVED:
>> > ?gnome-vfs-obexftp{u} libevolution5.0-cil{u} libhesiod0{u} libkadm5srv5{u}
>> > ?libopal3.6.1{u} libpam-cracklib{u} libpt2.6.1{u} libusb-1.0-0{u}
>> > ?libzephyr3{u} nvidia-kernel-2.6.26-1-686{u}
>> > ?nvidia-kernel-2.6.26-2-686-bigmem{u} padevchooser{u} paman{u} paprefs{u}
>> > ?pavumeter{u} pulseaudio-module-gconf{u} pulseaudio-module-zeroconf{u}
>> > ?toolame{u}
>> > 1 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 18 to remove and 426 not upgraded.
>> > Need to get 7129kB of archives. After unpacking 33.2MB will be freed.
>> > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>> > ?nvidia-glx: Depends: nvidia-kernel-185.18.31 which is a virtual package.
>> > The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
>> >
>> > Remove the following packages:
>> > nvidia-glx
>> >
>> > Score is -9881
>> >
>> > Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]
>> >
>> > Does this mean that nvidia-glx will be upgraded? It seems to be saying it
>> > will be removed...
>> >
>>
>>
>> Yes, it looks like it's removing nvidia-glx due to conflicts with
>> other packages on your system (maybe the newer kernel).
>>
>> AFAIK, "nv" is the open-source module and "nvidia" is the proprietary
>> implementation (and last time I checked "nv" didn't support most
>> 3d/acceleration features). If the driver from your distro doesn't
>> work, try downloading one straight from nvidia:
>>
>> http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us
>>
>>
>> You'll need to turn off X to install, and run the downloaded (.run)
>> file from the CLI, but it may be a newer version that the conflicted
>> one in the distro.
>
> That's the way I was doing it before, but of course every time I update the
> kernel...
>
> I was hoping to keep doing it the 'Debian Way', if possible. I think in this
> case the driver is probably installable with apt, I just don't have enough
> experience with it to understand what it's telling me to do :-\
>
> --
> J
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

Hmm. There's probably just a lag-time between the "nvidia" driver
being updated on Debian's end and the kernel update itself.  You could
just make the use of the from-the-website driver an interum thing
until Deb gets an updated "nvidia-glx" package out there.

Also, how old is your card? Maybe you need one of the
"nvidia-glx-legacy-XXXX" packages?
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 18:04:28 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:04:28 -0700
Subject: pstools (server) for Linux
In-Reply-To: <200908261506.19311.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200908261137.22191.icanprogram@295.ca>
	 <1089a0320908261134q48a3fa50y273d82413e39b431@mail.gmail.com>
	 <200908261506.19311.icanprogram@295.ca>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908271104o1fcd100eha2d69e4b34938a31@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:06 PM, bob 295<icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I have an existing piece of Windows code which calls pstools under the hood to
> do things like list processes running, ?kill a specific process and then
> restart it.
>
> The process in question has moved from a Windows platform to a Linux server
> and I'm trying to plumb back the previous functionality.
>
> Certainly ssh/scp can work from the Windows side but that involves starting up
> separate processes etc. rather than using the "seamless" way it used to work.
>
> bob
>
>
> On Wednesday 26 August 2009 02:34 pm, Marcelo Cavalcante wrote:
>> Hello..
>>
>> I Didn't get it...
>>
>> What you want is transfer files from Windows to Linux/Linux to Windows
>> using ssh/scp? o.O
>> If yes, you could try WinSCP to connect to a remote Linux machine and
>> transfer your files.
>>
>> It's what you want? Forgive me if not.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> ---
>>
>> - ??v? ? Marcelo Cavalcante Rocha / Kalib
>> - /(_)\ ?Usu?rio Linux #407564 / Usu?rio Asterisk #1148
>> - ?^ ^ ? GNU-Linux - Livre, Poderoso e Seguro
>> - TUX-CE Member - www.tux-ce.org
>> - Archlinux-br Developer Team - http://archlinux-br.org
>> - KDE Brasil Member
>> - TLUG Member - Toronto Linux User Group
>> - http://www.marcelocavalcante.net
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:37 PM, bob 295<icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> > I know that ssh/scp can do all the things that Windows folks do with
>> > pstools.
>> >
>> > Nonetheless is there a Linux TCP/IP server which can allow the Windows
>> > pstools to transparently manage a remote Linux server, ?in much the same
>> > way as SAMBA allows the file system to look transparent?
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance.
>> >
>> > bob
>> > --
>> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>

I recently worked up a daemon for other purposes that would probably
suit your needs on the linux end. It's perl-based, and allows a
connection via SSL where you can execute predefined commands.


########

Server-side has a configuration file like:
[global]
  ; Enable debug messages (console only right now)
  debug=1

  ; Port to listen for TCP/IP connections
  port=1234

  ; Password for connections
  password=thecakeisalie
  allow_empty_password=0
  max_children=5

[commands]
  show-motd=/bin/cat /etc/motd
  change-date=/bin/date ${DATE}

########

If you were to enter the commands via SSL-telnet, it would look like
telnet -z ssl someserver
  AUTH thecakeisalie
  RUN change-date 0827110299


Assuming that windows has some form of Socket+SSL module for your
language of choice, it shouldn't be too hard to program a client for
this (the only client I have is also for Linux).
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From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 19:04:47 2009
From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:04:47 -0400
Subject: October meeting - call for short talks...
Message-ID: <f646b91f0908271204s7d9a670bvc68b8e9b714fb397@mail.gmail.com>

The October meeting will be time for GTALUG's annual general meeting,
at which time board elections will occur. This while important will
not take up a whole evening.

So, we are looking for 4+ short (say 15 to 20 minute) talks that can
round out the evening. Got some small Linux related project that
hasn't received the attention it deserves, well October 13th will be
the perfect time to show it off...



Colin McGregor
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 19:44:03 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:44:03 -0400
Subject: October meeting - call for short talks...
In-Reply-To: <f646b91f0908271204s7d9a670bvc68b8e9b714fb397-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f646b91f0908271204s7d9a670bvc68b8e9b714fb397@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A96E203.7010602@linuxcaffe.ca>

Colin McGregor wrote:
> 
> So, we are looking for 4+ short (say 15 to 20 minute) talks that can
> round out the evening. Got some small Linux related project that
> hasn't received the attention it deserves, well October 13th will be
> the perfect time to show it off...
How about a show-and-tell of my emerging all-CLI 
task/document/accounting application use ?

vimoutliner (and vim, of course)
   using otl2aft.awk (not yet available in stores) + aft + pdflatex for 
print
taskwarrior.org for tasks
ledger-cli for accounting
git for version control (accounting audit sanity) and distributed data
(which I should have figured out by then)
?
djp
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 19:46:31 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:46:31 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
Message-ID: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca>

I have a dozen keyboards.

they all suck

I need a new one

can't find a happy hacking keyboard

what are the chances that one of you bought one, but now realizes you're 
not actually going to use it, and would trade it for folding money ?

djp
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 19:48:28 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:48:28 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <4A96E297.2090402-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <4A96E30C.90202@linuxcaffe.ca>

David J Patrick wrote:
> what are the chances that one of you bought one, but now realizes you're 
> not actually going to use it, and would trade it for folding money ?
or
has anyone found a good, compact keyboard available in this time-zone 
and latitude ?
djp
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 20:16:10 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:16:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <4A96E30C.90202-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A96E30C.90202@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271554470.2201@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: David J Patrick <djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org>

| has anyone found a good, compact keyboard available in this time-zone and
| latitude ?

You skipped two dimensions: altitude and time.

Keyboard preferences are so individual.

You mentioned accounting as an application (in another post).  I'd
expect that you want a numeric keypad for that.  I don't use them
much and would prefer more desk space.

I like what HH has done with the function keys (lost them) and the ESC
key (moved it closer).

My favourite keyboard was that on the IBM Model 029 keypunch (but not
the ones made in India).


Apparently Linux Central in Michigan sells HH keyboards and is in our
timezone and close to our latitude (same latitude as London or
Sarnia).  Too bad about the border.
http://www.linuxcentral.com/catalog/?s_prod_name=happy+hacking&set_join=and&cat=search
--
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 20:23:18 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:23:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271554470.2201-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A96E30C.90202@linuxcaffe.ca> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271554470.2201@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271621080.2201@redclaw.mimosa.com>

| From: D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>

| http://www.linuxcentral.com/catalog/?s_prod_name=happy+hacking&set_join=and&cat=search

Cheaper from the corporate store (but shipping might change that):
  http://pfuca-store.stores.yahoo.net/haphackeylit1.html
Note that the URL suggests a different model than the page contents
describe.

You might check the other resellers.
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 20:25:37 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:25:37 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <4A96E30C.90202-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A96E30C.90202@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <4A96EBC1.3090609@alteeve.com>

David J Patrick wrote:
> David J Patrick wrote:
>> what are the chances that one of you bought one, but now realizes 
>> you're not actually going to use it, and would trade it for folding 
>> money ?
> or
> has anyone found a good, compact keyboard available in this time-zone 
> and latitude ?
> djp

It may not be what you're looking for, but about a year ago I bought 
this one:

http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-keyboards/razer-lycosa-keyboard

It's listed as a gaming computer, I know, but it is amazing. It's a 
pleasure to type on and it's easy to see the keys as they're lit up from 
underneath (can be turned of via a touch-capacitive swith on the 
keyboard itself).

I'd buy ten if I could justify it. They are that awesome.

Madi

PS - I got mine (and the matching corded mouse) from Canada Computers.
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From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 21:10:50 2009
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:10:50 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <4A96E297.2090402-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <20090827211050.GA23351@yam.witteman.ca>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 03:46:31PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote:

>what are the chances that one of you bought one, but now realizes
>you're not actually going to use it, and would trade it for folding
>money ?

If the other suggestions don't work out for you, I am the owner of
record of a HH keyboard, but a friend has it right now.  I could reclaim
it to satisfy your need, if it would be worth the trouble.
-- 

yours,

William

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From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 21:12:42 2009
From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:12:42 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <4A96E297.2090402-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <f646b91f0908271412s10907d11q64bd02e3f84ad595@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/27/09, David J Patrick <djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I have a dozen keyboards.
>
> they all suck
>
> I need a new one
>
> can't find a happy hacking keyboard
>
> what are the chances that one of you bought one, but now realizes you're
> not actually going to use it, and would trade it for folding money ?
>
> djp

This past week I got a pair of 3com Audrey machines, with more than 2
keyboards...  So-so to type on, but small and wireless. Likely big
issue the wireless is done via IR, not RF. IR interfaces for PCs are
not hard as I have demonstrated here:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8811

Still, may be a bit more pain than your looking for...

Colin McGregor
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 21:51:37 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:51:37 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271554470.2201-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A96E30C.90202@linuxcaffe.ca> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271554470.2201@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <4A96FFE9.6060500@linuxcaffe.ca>

D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> | From: David J Patrick <djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org>
> 
> | has anyone found a good, compact keyboard available in this time-zone and
> | latitude ?
> 
> You skipped two dimensions: altitude and time.
no matter how high or how late, I need something where the ENTER key 
don't stick! (of all the keys..	)
> 
> Keyboard preferences are so individual.
I should hack my 1988 TRS80 Model100 into a serial keyboard, it still 
clicken and clacking great.
> 
> You mentioned accounting as an application (in another post).  I'd
> expect that you want a numeric keypad for that.
external unit, doubles as USB hub

   I don't use them
> much and would prefer more desk space.
that's why I want something compact.
> 
> Apparently Linux Central in Michigan sells HH keyboards and is in our
> timezone and close to our latitude (same latitude as London or
> Sarnia).  Too bad about the border.
> http://www.linuxcentral.com/catalog/?s_prod_name=happy+hacking&set_join=and&cat=search

oh, yeah, fantastic ! good price too. too bad

     There are problems with the data you have submitted
     Please go back and check the following areas

        1. Sorry we can not export Happy Hacking Keyboard products
           outside of the United States Please remove that item from 
your order


damn !
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 21:57:55 2009
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:57:55 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <4A96FFE9.6060500-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A96E30C.90202@linuxcaffe.ca>
	 <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271554470.2201@redclaw.mimosa.com>
	 <4A96FFE9.6060500@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0908271457me91564es5b85b11579f1118@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:51 PM, David J Patrick<djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I should hack my 1988 TRS80 Model100 into a serial keyboard, it still
> clicken and clacking great.

Yeah, that was a pretty neat keyboard.  I had one of those during my
undergrad days; pretty good for notes.  Rather less powerful than
today's Netbooks :-).

The one real curiosity of the Model 100 is that it is evidently the
last product where Mr Gates actually wrote code (8085 assembler, if I
do not misremember) for it.  He may be an unloved character, but it's
very interesting to note that it is explicitly One of His.  I heard
him comment this in person, but the Wikipedia also documents this.
-- 
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
Charles de Gaulle  - "The better I get to know men, the more I find
myself loving dogs." -
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/charles_de_gaulle.html
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 22:40:04 2009
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:40:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: copyright consultation Toronto "town hall" starts in a few minutes
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271837120.2201@redclaw.mimosa.com>

To register for webcast (all real seats were spoken for long ago):
  http://copyright.econsultation.ca/topics-sujets/show-montrer/27

Although they don't say so, it looks like it will work on Linux if you 
have Adobe Flash.  Cannot be sure yet.
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Thu Aug 27 23:13:30 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:13:30 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <20090827211050.GA23351-BcIWU8F4MdiF6w9186ga+w@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca> <20090827211050.GA23351@yam.witteman.ca>
Message-ID: <4A97131A.9080805@linuxcaffe.ca>

William O'Higgins Witteman wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 03:46:31PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote:
> 
>> what are the chances that one of you bought one, but now realizes
>> you're not actually going to use it, and would trade it for folding
>> money ?
> 
> If the other suggestions don't work out for you, I am the owner of
> record of a HH keyboard, but a friend has it right now.  I could reclaim
> it to satisfy your need, if it would be worth the trouble.
well it shouldn't be collecting dust !
if said friend just loves it, we leave it, but if it's just a keyboard 
(and a small one at that) then...
djp

(ps, I may have something in the works, but..)
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 03:45:51 2009
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:45:51 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <4A96FFE9.6060500-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A96E30C.90202@linuxcaffe.ca> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271554470.2201@redclaw.mimosa.com> <4A96FFE9.6060500@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <20090828034551.GA5944@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 05:51:37PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote:
> >Apparently Linux Central in Michigan sells HH keyboards and is in our
> >timezone and close to our latitude (same latitude as London or
> >Sarnia).  Too bad about the border.
> >http://www.linuxcentral.com/catalog/?s_prod_name=happy+hacking&set_join=and&cat=search
> 
> oh, yeah, fantastic ! good price too. too bad
> 
>     There are problems with the data you have submitted
>     Please go back and check the following areas
> 
>        1. Sorry we can not export Happy Hacking Keyboard products
>           outside of the United States Please remove that item from 
> your order

Stay away from Linux Central!

I bought 3 HH keyboards from Linux Central.  No problem with the
keyboards.  But, don't get their "Happy Hacking Gel Wrist Rest".  It's
not a gel at all.  It's cheap foam glued onto pressed wood, and wrapped
in cheap vinyl.  They refused refund, because I removed shrink-wrap, and
hence making it opened and unsellable product.  After many emails and
phones, I got a partial refund, minus 15% restocking fee.

After this incident, I don't want anything to do with them, and I
certainly will not recommend Linux Central.

You can have my HH keyboard.  Can you spare few bagful of coffee beans?

For anyone else looking for a keyboard, I recommend Razer Arctosa or
Razer Lycosa Mirror Edition (one without rubber coating).  I got one at
work and at home.  Lycosa is better of the two, but it's more expensive.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 04:05:22 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:05:22 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <20090828034551.GA5944-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A96E30C.90202@linuxcaffe.ca> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271554470.2201@redclaw.mimosa.com> <4A96FFE9.6060500@linuxcaffe.ca> <20090828034551.GA5944@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <4A975782.8000704@linuxcaffe.ca>

William Park wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 05:51:37PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote:
>>        1. Sorry we can not export Happy Hacking Keyboard products
>>           outside of the United States Please remove that item from 
>> your order
> 
> Stay away from Linux Central!
> 
> I bought 3 HH keyboards from Linux Central. [snip] After many emails and
> phones, I got a partial refund, minus 15% restocking fee.
well that's bogus ! gel is gel, man !
(I'm glad then that they refuse to ship to Canada (mabe it's because of 
all the ruckus you made ;-)
> 
> After this incident, I don't want anything to do with them, and I
> certainly will not recommend Linux Central.
Well thanks William, I had a too-good-to-be-true tingle.
> 
> You can have my HH keyboard.  Can you spare few bagful of coffee beans?
My good sir, for such an exchange you could get very caffeinated indeed!
reply off list and we'll make arrangements, wonderful !
(at the moment, I have to tap the ENTER key /just so/ to keep it from 
running away :-/   I went looking on College Street today and found that 
if it's compact, it's crap.
> 
> For anyone else looking for a keyboard, I recommend Razer Arctosa or
> Razer Lycosa Mirror Edition (one without rubber coating).  I got one at
> work and at home.  Lycosa is better of the two, but it's more expensive.
yeowza! and real purty!
thanks WP,
djp
> 

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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 04:32:20 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:32:20 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <f646b91f0908271412s10907d11q64bd02e3f84ad595-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca> <f646b91f0908271412s10907d11q64bd02e3f84ad595@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A975DD4.1070207@linuxcaffe.ca>

Colin McGregor wrote:
> This past week I got a pair of 3com Audrey machines, with more than 2
> keyboards...  So-so to type on, but small and wireless. Likely big
> issue the wireless is done via IR, not RF. IR interfaces for PCs are
> not hard as I have demonstrated here:
> 
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8811
> 
> Still, may be a bit more pain than your looking for...
For my main keyboard, it's a whole lot more pain (looking for 
hard-wired-just-works) but f you actually have such a spare, it might be 
perfect for the juke-box keyboard.. how many coffee beans ya want for 
that ?  ;-)
djp
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 04:36:24 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:36:24 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <4A975782.8000704-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A96E30C.90202@linuxcaffe.ca> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271554470.2201@redclaw.mimosa.com> <4A96FFE9.6060500@linuxcaffe.ca> <20090828034551.GA5944@node1.opengeometry.net> <4A975782.8000704@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <4A975EC8.8050403@dinamis.com>

On 28/08/09 12:05 AM, David J Patrick wrote:
> (at the moment, I have to tap the ENTER key /just so/ to keep it from
> running away :-/

Have you tried spraying it with circuit cleaner? ElectroSonic and Sayal
Electronics would carry but they're in the Victoria Park and McNicoll
area. There is an electronics surplus store on the south side of Queen
W. just east of Spadina on the second floor. They would probably have it
too.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 04:38:51 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:38:51 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <4A975EC8.8050403-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A96E30C.90202@linuxcaffe.ca> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271554470.2201@redclaw.mimosa.com> <4A96FFE9.6060500@linuxcaffe.ca> <20090828034551.GA5944@node1.opengeometry.net> <4A975782.8000704@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A975EC8.8050403@dinamis.com>
Message-ID: <4A975F5B.5050204@linuxcaffe.ca>

CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> On 28/08/09 12:05 AM, David J Patrick wrote:
>> (at the moment, I have to tap the ENTER key /just so/ to keep it from
>> running away :-/
> 
> Have you tried spraying it with circuit cleaner? 
I'm torn between maintenance and wanton destruction...
I think I'll just replace it and relegate it to a menial position.

and yes, circuit cleaner is a good idea, and I have some.
thanks,
djp
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 04:50:13 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:50:13 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <4A975F5B.5050204-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A96E30C.90202@linuxcaffe.ca> <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271554470.2201@redclaw.mimosa.com> <4A96FFE9.6060500@linuxcaffe.ca> <20090828034551.GA5944@node1.opengeometry.net> <4A975782.8000704@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A975EC8.8050403@dinamis.com> <4A975F5B.5050204@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <4A976205.1090304@dinamis.com>

On 28/08/09 12:38 AM, David J Patrick wrote:
> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
>> On 28/08/09 12:05 AM, David J Patrick wrote:
>>> (at the moment, I have to tap the ENTER key /just so/ to keep it from
>>> running away :-/
>>
>> Have you tried spraying it with circuit cleaner? 
> I'm torn between maintenance and wanton destruction...

A big bundle of firecrackers attached to the keyboard would satisfy the
latter. I've heard that if you have a big enough bundle, it'll make a
really BIG BANG but I wouldn't know anyone who, inspired by the various
Apollo missions, stuffed as many firecrackers as he could into a tin can
that he put on top of a mailbox to see how high he could make the can
fly after lighting it. Rumour has it, he nearly put the can in low earth
orbit and the top of the mailbox was dented and scorched.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
--
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From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 07:55:04 2009
From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:55:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <4A96E30C.90202-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca> <4A96E30C.90202@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908280346540.9283@vex.net>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, David J Patrick wrote:

> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:48:28 -0400
> From: David J Patrick <djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org>
> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: unhappy hacking keyboardless
> 
> David J Patrick wrote:
>> what are the chances that one of you bought one, but now realizes you're 
>> not actually going to use it, and would trade it for folding money ?

I have a Happy Hacking Keyboard Lite, but I gave up on using it because
it was too awkward for some keyboard entry.

To get to the Virtual Console, I needed to press:
   R_Control + R_Alt + Fn + F[1-5]

Maybe the non-Lite version is better.

--
Eric B.
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From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 16:23:08 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:23:08 -0400
Subject: The Nokia Internet Tablet gets a phone
Message-ID: <4A98046C.3070303@telly.org>


http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/

Looks interesting. Wonder how many open source apps it can run?
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 16:39:33 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:39:33 -0400
Subject: The Nokia Internet Tablet gets a phone
In-Reply-To: <4A98046C.3070303-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A98046C.3070303@telly.org>
Message-ID: <4A980845.30905@linuxcaffe.ca>

Evan Leibovitch wrote:
> http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/
> 
> Looks interesting. Wonder how many open source apps it can run?
almost anything, I'll bet!
(drool)
djp
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From lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 17:35:02 2009
From: lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mark Lane)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:35:02 -0400
Subject: The Nokia Internet Tablet gets a phone
In-Reply-To: <4A980845.30905-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A98046C.3070303@telly.org> <4A980845.30905@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <daf2a09e0908281035u4eb6b722qb15f8c15bfc06b94@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:39 PM, David J Patrick <djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Evan Leibovitch wrote:
>
>> http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/
>>
>> Looks interesting. Wonder how many open source apps it can run?
>>
> almost anything, I'll bet!
> (drool)
> djp
>

Assuming it runs Xorg :)
-- 
Mark Lane <lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
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From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 17:56:59 2009
From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:56:59 -0400
Subject: October meeting - call for short talks...
In-Reply-To: <4A96E203.7010602-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f646b91f0908271204s7d9a670bvc68b8e9b714fb397@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A96E203.7010602@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <f646b91f0908281056r54cdd685n44c422c3a8251ba4@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/27/09, David J Patrick <djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Colin McGregor wrote:
>>
>> So, we are looking for 4+ short (say 15 to 20 minute) talks that can
>> round out the evening. Got some small Linux related project that
>> hasn't received the attention it deserves, well October 13th will be
>> the perfect time to show it off...
> How about a show-and-tell of my emerging all-CLI
> task/document/accounting application use ?

This sounds good.

> vimoutliner (and vim, of course)
>    using otl2aft.awk (not yet available in stores) + aft + pdflatex for
> print
> taskwarrior.org for tasks
> ledger-cli for accounting
> git for version control (accounting audit sanity) and distributed data
> (which I should have figured out by then)
> ?
> djp

Also, the Toronto Area Security Klatch people will also be doing an
evening of short talks in September. I have offered to do a short talk
on Damn Vulnerable Linux, a Linux distribution/training tool, were
everything from a security viewpoint has been done badly...

So, I will plan to do a variation look at Damn Vulnerable Linux at the
October GTALUG meeting...

Colin.
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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 18:08:37 2009
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:08:37 -0400
Subject: The Nokia Internet Tablet gets a phone
In-Reply-To: <daf2a09e0908281035u4eb6b722qb15f8c15bfc06b94-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A98046C.3070303@telly.org> <4A980845.30905@linuxcaffe.ca>
	 <daf2a09e0908281035u4eb6b722qb15f8c15bfc06b94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0908281108j34f6bbdep80ecdfc09e7e81c6@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Mark Lane<lmlane-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Assuming it runs Xorg :)

I have had Mozilla and OpenOffice.org running on my N800 (2 models earlier...).

In the absence of a real keyboard (available on N810+), both are
pretty unusable :-(.

But I think X's there...
-- 
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
Ogden Nash  - "The trouble with a kitten is that when it grows up,
it's always a cat." -
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/o/ogden_nash.html
--
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 18:18:47 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:18:47 -0400
Subject: The Nokia Internet Tablet gets a phone
In-Reply-To: <daf2a09e0908281035u4eb6b722qb15f8c15bfc06b94-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A98046C.3070303@telly.org> <4A980845.30905@linuxcaffe.ca> <daf2a09e0908281035u4eb6b722qb15f8c15bfc06b94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A981F87.7050307@linuxcaffe.ca>

Mark Lane wrote:
>> almost anything, I'll bet!
>> (drool)
>> djp
>>
> 
> Assuming it runs Xorg :)
OpenGL supported in hardware, so..

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From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 19:41:59 2009
From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:41:59 -0400
Subject: October meeting - call for short talks...
In-Reply-To: <4A96E203.7010602-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f646b91f0908271204s7d9a670bvc68b8e9b714fb397@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A96E203.7010602@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <d6d6637f0908281241g469e8b0ek86218655a6b2f7e9@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:44 PM, David J Patrick<djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Colin McGregor wrote:
>>
>> So, we are looking for 4+ short (say 15 to 20 minute) talks that can
>> round out the evening. Got some small Linux related project that
>> hasn't received the attention it deserves, well October 13th will be
>> the perfect time to show it off...
>
> How about a show-and-tell of my emerging all-CLI task/document/accounting
> application use ?
>
> vimoutliner (and vim, of course)
> ?using otl2aft.awk (not yet available in stores) + aft + pdflatex for print
> taskwarrior.org for tasks
> ledger-cli for accounting
> git for version control (accounting audit sanity) and distributed data
> (which I should have figured out by then)

Overview of screen would be nice...

http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/
might be fun to observe that you might use that in conjunction with a
window manager with near-identical key bindings such as...

Ratpoison
http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/
ratpoison is a simple Window Manager with no fat library dependencies,
no fancy graphics, no window decorations, and no rodent dependence. It
is largely modeled after GNU Screen which has done wonders in the
virtual terminal market.

Stumpwm
http://www.nongnu.org/stumpwm/
StumpWM is an X11 window manager written entirely in Common Lisp. Its
user interface goals are similar to ratpoison's but with an emphasis
on customizability, completeness, and cushiness.

-- 
http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html
Charles de Gaulle  - "The better I get to know men, the more I find
myself loving dogs." -
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/c/charles_de_gaulle.html
--
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 21:23:12 2009
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:23:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mongo and Cassandra databases
In-Reply-To: <4A955389.9070203-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A955389.9070203@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0908281706580.8742@castor.opentrend.net>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009, tug wrote:

> I will still come back to my trivial MySQL / Postgres question.. but in the 
> mean time, I've been asked to look at MongoDB 
> (http://www.mongodb.org/display/DOCS/Home) and Cassandra 
> (http://incubator.apache.org/cassandra/) for possible inclusion in a project 
> (and no, there is specific project in mind)
>
> These products look to me like things for quick turn around killer webapps 
> that are intended to virally take over the world, and would be risky to use 
> unless you had nothing to loose in the first place... any heartfelt opinions?

Hi Tug.  The key is to use the type of database that matches the data & 
type of queries you will be doing.  Relational databases are great if you 
have sets of data and need to recombine them in certain ways to get a 
meaningful result.

If, OTOH, you just need to do a bunch of lookups then it may make sense to 
store your data in LDAP (backed by BDB) perhaps.

Document-oriented database (CouchDB, MongoDB, Cassandra) are different 
again.

We're lucky that so many options are available now.  I'd say use one of 
these DBs if the app would benefit from having its data stored like that.

Cheers,

Rob

-- 
I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy
http://www.practicalsysadmin.com
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 29 01:04:56 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:04:56 -0400
Subject: Squid setup help
Message-ID: <4A987EB8.30907@alteeve.com>

Hi all,

   A friend of mine is moving to a less than democratic country that 
filters web access. I want to setup a really simple proxy server for her 
to use so that she can stay in touch with her friends and family via 
facebook (blocked there, atm).

   I've been looking through the squid3 docs but it's a bleeping novel. 
Searching for sample configs fail to work, too. I freely admit this 
might be a pebkac issue. I've never really looked into nor cared much 
about proxies.

   Can someone here give me a hand or sample config file for setting up 
squid? I've got a small server with a single Internet-facing IP address.

   I think I want a transparent, non-caching proxy server. She uses 
Firefox, so I don't care about IE issues. Lastly, I don't know what her 
IP will be nor do I know if it will stay within a given range. The 
config files I've found so far all seem to expect you to know the IP 
range you want to allow.

Thanks all!

Madi
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From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 29 01:22:29 2009
From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:22:29 -0400
Subject: Squid setup help
In-Reply-To: <4A987EB8.30907-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A987EB8.30907@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <4A9882D5.2000001@utoronto.ca>

On 08/28/2009 09:04 PM, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> A friend of mine is moving to a less than democratic country that
> filters web access. I want to setup a really simple proxy server for her
> to use so that she can stay in touch with her friends and family via
> facebook (blocked there, atm).
>
> I've been looking through the squid3 docs but it's a bleeping novel.
> Searching for sample configs fail to work, too. I freely admit this
> might be a pebkac issue. I've never really looked into nor cared much
> about proxies.
>
> Can someone here give me a hand or sample config file for setting up
> squid? I've got a small server with a single Internet-facing IP address.
>
> I think I want a transparent, non-caching proxy server. She uses
> Firefox, so I don't care about IE issues. Lastly, I don't know what her
> IP will be nor do I know if it will stay within a given range. The
> config files I've found so far all seem to expect you to know the IP
> range you want to allow.

I think you might find that OpenVPN is an easier solution. Perhaps 
that's just because I'm not sure how squid will handle DNS requests -- 
if it leaks and your friend's country limits access by DNS (in whole or 
in part), squid might still not work for her. I know you can specify DNS 
servers in squid's config though so maybe it is a non-issue.

It just seems that, while a cache might make access faster, OpenVPN 
tunnels everything by design, e.g. it is explicitly designed to be 
secure and to achieve the functionality you're after. Squid, not so 
much, it's more of an everyperson's reverse cache/proxy/accelerator etc.

My $0.02.

Jamon
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org  Fri Aug 28 21:56:09 2009
From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:56:09 -0400
Subject: copyright consultation Toronto "town hall" starts in a
	few minutes
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271837120.2201-zb/h1I55lmemYXyjjU2hqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271837120.2201@redclaw.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <1251496569.6072.10.camel@cougar-hardy>

On Thu, 2009-08-27 at 18:40 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> To register for webcast (all real seats were spoken for long ago):
>   http://copyright.econsultation.ca/topics-sujets/show-montrer/27
> 
> Although they don't say so, it looks like it will work on Linux if you 
> have Adobe Flash.  Cannot be sure yet.

Michael Geist's blog <http://www.michaelgeist.ca/> has two recent
postings suggesting that not all in the consultation process is
as it should be.

(*) In "The Toronto Music Industry Town Hall"
    <http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4329/125/> he
    suggests that the meeting was stacked by industry
    representatives.  Not all is bleak however: "My own view is
    that it was so over-the-top that their message was lost in
    light of such an obvious orchestrated attempt to stack the
    deck."

(*) In "Government May Be Altering Copyright Submissions Without
    Consent" <http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4328/125/>
    he accuses the government web site of counting alike all
    submissions which start with a provided form letter regarless
    of how the submitter may have customized it.  Sigh!

Cheers (well, that's what I say, anyway),
Terry.


--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 29 12:03:07 2009
From: darryl-90a536wCiRb3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Darryl Moore)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 08:03:07 -0400
Subject: copyright consultation Toronto "town hall" starts in
 a	few minutes
In-Reply-To: <1251496569.6072.10.camel@cougar-hardy>
References: <alpine.LRH.2.00.0908271837120.2201@redclaw.mimosa.com> <1251496569.6072.10.camel@cougar-hardy>
Message-ID: <4A9918FB.6060503@moores.ca>

I was there. While the music industry succeeded wonderfully in stacking
the deck, I would not say it was "so-over-the-top". The message the
government was hearing there was the same message they were getting at
many of the round tables, and at their closed door consultations with
CRIA and the like. This "town hall" served well to reinforce that message.

That in turn means it is ever more important to get a submission into
the econsultation website. There are over 3000 submissions to date, most
of them asking for fairer copyright. The only way these submissions will
carry enough weight to counter the influence of the recording industry
will be if there are at least 3000 more.

Please start writing.

cheers,
darryl


Terrence Enger wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-08-27 at 18:40 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
>> To register for webcast (all real seats were spoken for long ago):
>>   http://copyright.econsultation.ca/topics-sujets/show-montrer/27
>>
>> Although they don't say so, it looks like it will work on Linux if you 
>> have Adobe Flash.  Cannot be sure yet.
> 
> Michael Geist's blog <http://www.michaelgeist.ca/> has two recent
> postings suggesting that not all in the consultation process is
> as it should be.
> 
> (*) In "The Toronto Music Industry Town Hall"
>     <http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4329/125/> he
>     suggests that the meeting was stacked by industry
>     representatives.  Not all is bleak however: "My own view is
>     that it was so over-the-top that their message was lost in
>     light of such an obvious orchestrated attempt to stack the
>     deck."
> 
> (*) In "Government May Be Altering Copyright Submissions Without
>     Consent" <http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4328/125/>
>     he accuses the government web site of counting alike all
>     submissions which start with a provided form letter regarless
>     of how the submitter may have customized it.  Sigh!
> 
> Cheers (well, that's what I say, anyway),
> Terry.
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 29 20:56:14 2009
From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:56:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: October meeting - call for short talks...
In-Reply-To: <d6d6637f0908281241g469e8b0ek86218655a6b2f7e9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f646b91f0908271204s7d9a670bvc68b8e9b714fb397@mail.gmail.com>  <4A96E203.7010602@linuxcaffe.ca> <d6d6637f0908281241g469e8b0ek86218655a6b2f7e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908290412170.9283@vex.net>

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Christopher Browne wrote:

> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:41:59 -0400
> From: Christopher Browne <cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: October meeting - call for short talks...
> 
...
> Overview of screen would be nice...
>
> http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/
> might be fun to observe that you might use that in conjunction with a
> window manager with near-identical key bindings such as...
>
> Ratpoison
> http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/
> ratpoison is a simple Window Manager with no fat library dependencies,
> no fancy graphics, no window decorations, and no rodent dependence. It
> is largely modeled after GNU Screen which has done wonders in the
> virtual terminal market.
>
> Stumpwm
> http://www.nongnu.org/stumpwm/
> StumpWM is an X11 window manager written entirely in Common Lisp. Its
> user interface goals are similar to ratpoison's but with an emphasis
> on customizability, completeness, and cushiness.

I would second these choices.
Screen, I use all the time, but I'd like to know what others
do with it.  What programs are being run under screen?
For example, a useful and fast to start up, text-based MP3
player is 'mp3blaster', which when run under screen means no
interruption of your audio while X is restarted or the window
is killed.

I tried Ratpoison, but I haven't decided if it is worth learning.
How efficient will this make my life?
What are people doing with it?
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Aug 29 23:26:22 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 19:26:22 -0400
Subject: can't su, but can sudo?
Message-ID: <a05162a70908291626l3fd3b61cmbd956f034e55597e@mail.gmail.com>

I just recently noticed this on my Kubuntu x86_64
When I su, I get a, "su: Authentication failure"
but if I tyr sudo enter my password, everything works fine?

Any ideas?

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 30 00:01:43 2009
From: kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kyle O'Donnell)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:01:43 -0400
Subject: can't su, but can sudo?
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908291626l3fd3b61cmbd956f034e55597e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908291626l3fd3b61cmbd956f034e55597e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2274b9c30908291701s7b951ce4y2f198a159d8e1bc0@mail.gmail.com>

are you using root's password when using su?



On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I just recently noticed this on my Kubuntu x86_64
> When I su, I get a, "su: Authentication failure"
> but if I tyr sudo enter my password, everything works fine?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> --
> Kind Regards,
> Rajinder Yadav
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 30 00:05:07 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:05:07 -0400
Subject: can't su, but can sudo?
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908291626l3fd3b61cmbd956f034e55597e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908291626l3fd3b61cmbd956f034e55597e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A99C233.50008@dinamis.com>

On 29/08/09 07:26 PM, Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> I just recently noticed this on my Kubuntu x86_64
> When I su, I get a, "su: Authentication failure"
> but if I tyr sudo enter my password, everything works fine?
> 
> Any ideas?

(K)ubuntu has no root password by default. The first account you create
can get root privileges via sudo.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 30 00:19:13 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:19:13 -0400
Subject: can't su, but can sudo?
In-Reply-To: <2274b9c30908291701s7b951ce4y2f198a159d8e1bc0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908291626l3fd3b61cmbd956f034e55597e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <2274b9c30908291701s7b951ce4y2f198a159d8e1bc0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908291719v1203643aldca6b18142147296@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Kyle O'Donnell<kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> are you using root's password when using su?

Yes I was able to su into admin mode before as root, now it seems I cannot.

>
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>> I just recently noticed this on my Kubuntu x86_64
>> When I su, I get a, "su: Authentication failure"
>> but if I tyr sudo enter my password, everything works fine?
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> --
>> Kind Regards,
>> Rajinder Yadav
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
>



-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 30 00:28:50 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:28:50 -0400
Subject: can't su, but can sudo?
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908291719v1203643aldca6b18142147296-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908291626l3fd3b61cmbd956f034e55597e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <2274b9c30908291701s7b951ce4y2f198a159d8e1bc0@mail.gmail.com>
	 <a05162a70908291719v1203643aldca6b18142147296@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908291728w7b2f0217xf3a363ac5887b25a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Rajinder Yadav<devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Kyle O'Donnell<kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> are you using root's password when using su?
>
> Yes I was able to su into admin mode before as root, now it seems I cannot.

Clifford is correct, you can't su directly into root on Ubuntu.

I must have been confused when I was creating my LFS and using su a
while back and then stopped =P

>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just recently noticed this on my Kubuntu x86_64
>>> When I su, I get a, "su: Authentication failure"
>>> but if I tyr sudo enter my password, everything works fine?
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Rajinder Yadav
>>> --
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 30 00:47:09 2009
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:47:09 -0400
Subject: can't su, but can sudo?
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908291728w7b2f0217xf3a363ac5887b25a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908291626l3fd3b61cmbd956f034e55597e@mail.gmail.com>	 <2274b9c30908291701s7b951ce4y2f198a159d8e1bc0@mail.gmail.com>	 <a05162a70908291719v1203643aldca6b18142147296@mail.gmail.com> <a05162a70908291728w7b2f0217xf3a363ac5887b25a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A99CC0D.9050609@alteeve.com>

Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Rajinder Yadav<devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Kyle O'Donnell<kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>> are you using root's password when using su?
>> Yes I was able to su into admin mode before as root, now it seems I cannot.
> 
> Clifford is correct, you can't su directly into root on Ubuntu.
> 
> I must have been confused when I was creating my LFS and using su a
> while back and then stopped =P
> 
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>>> I just recently noticed this on my Kubuntu x86_64
>>>> When I su, I get a, "su: Authentication failure"
>>>> but if I tyr sudo enter my password, everything works fine?
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>> Rajinder Yadav
>>>> --
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
> 

sudo su
passwd

you should be golden. :)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 30 00:52:00 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:52:00 -0400
Subject: can't su, but can sudo?
In-Reply-To: <4A99CC0D.9050609-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908291626l3fd3b61cmbd956f034e55597e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <2274b9c30908291701s7b951ce4y2f198a159d8e1bc0@mail.gmail.com>
	 <a05162a70908291719v1203643aldca6b18142147296@mail.gmail.com>
	 <a05162a70908291728w7b2f0217xf3a363ac5887b25a@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A99CC0D.9050609@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <a05162a70908291752j12024eefj90fc7d626ab99614@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Madison Kelly<linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Rajinder Yadav wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Rajinder Yadav<devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Kyle O'Donnell<kyleodonnell-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> are you using root's password when using su?
>>>
>>> Yes I was able to su into admin mode before as root, now it seems I
>>> cannot.
>>
>> Clifford is correct, you can't su directly into root on Ubuntu.
>>
>> I must have been confused when I was creating my LFS and using su a
>> while back and then stopped =P
>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I just recently noticed this on my Kubuntu x86_64
>>>>> When I su, I get a, "su: Authentication failure"
>>>>> but if I tyr sudo enter my password, everything works fine?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>> Rajinder Yadav
>>>>> --
>>
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. ? ? ?Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>>
>
> sudo su
> passwd
>
> you should be golden. :)

Thanks Madison, I feel golden already.
I'm getting rusty or trying to cram too many things into my pee brain ;)

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 30 01:11:18 2009
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:11:18 -0400
Subject: can't su, but can sudo?
In-Reply-To: <4A99CC0D.9050609-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908291626l3fd3b61cmbd956f034e55597e@mail.gmail.com>	 <2274b9c30908291701s7b951ce4y2f198a159d8e1bc0@mail.gmail.com>	 <a05162a70908291719v1203643aldca6b18142147296@mail.gmail.com> <a05162a70908291728w7b2f0217xf3a363ac5887b25a@mail.gmail.com> <4A99CC0D.9050609@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <4A99D1B6.3040704@dinamis.com>

On 29/08/09 08:47 PM, Madison Kelly wrote:
> sudo su
> passwd
> 
> you should be golden. :)

You can just do "sudo -i" and get an interactive root shell without
needing to enable the root account.
-- 
Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis
1419-3266 Yonge St.
Toronto, ON
Canada  M4N 3P6

<http://dinamis.com>
+1 416-410-3326
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists




From daniel-gCvOBm5uVnjiB9QmIjCX8w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 30 04:15:44 2009
From: daniel-gCvOBm5uVnjiB9QmIjCX8w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Wayne Armstrong)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:15:44 -0400
Subject: October meeting - call for short talks...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908290412170.9283-Ja3L+HSX0kI@public.gmane.org>
References: <f646b91f0908271204s7d9a670bvc68b8e9b714fb397@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A96E203.7010602@linuxcaffe.ca>
	 <d6d6637f0908281241g469e8b0ek86218655a6b2f7e9@mail.gmail.com>
	 <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908290412170.9283@vex.net>
Message-ID: <2b501b820908292115x77b5c0b0j24aad840db0c1b57@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Eric Battersby<gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I would second these choices.
> Screen, I use all the time, but I'd like to know what others
> do with it. ?What programs are being run under screen?
> For example, a useful and fast to start up, text-based MP3
> player is 'mp3blaster', which when run under screen means no
> interruption of your audio while X is restarted or the window
> is killed.

I love screen and am always interested in hearing new ways to make use
of it... 'moc' is another nice console music app, and I use rtorrent
running in screen to keep torrents running in the background...
currently seeding Slackware 13.0 to the world... :-)
--
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 30 05:38:04 2009
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:38:04 -0400
Subject: October meeting - call for short talks...
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908290412170.9283-Ja3L+HSX0kI@public.gmane.org>
References: <f646b91f0908271204s7d9a670bvc68b8e9b714fb397@mail.gmail.com> <4A96E203.7010602@linuxcaffe.ca> <d6d6637f0908281241g469e8b0ek86218655a6b2f7e9@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908290412170.9283@vex.net>
Message-ID: <20090830053804.GA22951@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 04:56:14PM -0400, Eric Battersby wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Christopher Browne wrote:
> >Overview of screen would be nice...
> >
> >http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/
> >might be fun to observe that you might use that in conjunction with a
> >window manager with near-identical key bindings such as...
> >
> >Ratpoison
> >http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/

> >Stumpwm
> >http://www.nongnu.org/stumpwm/

> I would second these choices.
> Screen, I use all the time, but I'd like to know what others
> do with it.  What programs are being run under screen?
> For example, a useful and fast to start up, text-based MP3
> player is 'mp3blaster', which when run under screen means no
> interruption of your audio while X is restarted or the window
> is killed.
> 
> I tried Ratpoison, but I haven't decided if it is worth learning.
> How efficient will this make my life?
> What are people doing with it?

I just tried Ratpoison.  Hmm, my default font (Courier 10pitch, 14pt)
in KDE looks better than in Ratpoison... maybe KDE is loading some font
aliasing or something.

I'm not sure about the ultimate useability of Ratpoison or other
non-mouse window managers.  Konsole has tabs, so you can have multiple
console sessions; of course, Konsole can't detach like Screen.  Even
though a graphic application gets its own full screen in Ratpoison, you
have to use mouse within that application.  And, once your hand is on
the mouse, it's quicker and easier to just move down and click an icon
than to move your hand back to keyboard and type <C-t> key bindings.

Ratpoison uses <C-t> whereas Screen uses <C-a> as command prefix.
Unfortunately, <C-t> is used by Vim to return after jumping to a tag.

-- 
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
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From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 30 06:36:07 2009
From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:36:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: October meeting - call for short talks...
In-Reply-To: <20090830053804.GA22951-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <f646b91f0908271204s7d9a670bvc68b8e9b714fb397@mail.gmail.com> <4A96E203.7010602@linuxcaffe.ca> <d6d6637f0908281241g469e8b0ek86218655a6b2f7e9@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908290412170.9283@vex.net>
 <20090830053804.GA22951@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0908300151410.9283@vex.net>

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009, William Park wrote:

> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:38:04 -0400
> From: William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: October meeting - call for short talks...
> 
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 04:56:14PM -0400, Eric Battersby wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Christopher Browne wrote:
>>> Overview of screen would be nice...
>>>
>>> http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/
>>> might be fun to observe that you might use that in conjunction with a
>>> window manager with near-identical key bindings such as...
>>>
>>> Ratpoison
>>> http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/
>
>>> Stumpwm
>>> http://www.nongnu.org/stumpwm/
>
>> I would second these choices.
>> Screen, I use all the time, but I'd like to know what others
>> do with it.  What programs are being run under screen?
>> For example, a useful and fast to start up, text-based MP3
>> player is 'mp3blaster', which when run under screen means no
>> interruption of your audio while X is restarted or the window
>> is killed.
>>
>> I tried Ratpoison, but I haven't decided if it is worth learning.
>> How efficient will this make my life?
>> What are people doing with it?
>
> I just tried Ratpoison.  Hmm, my default font (Courier 10pitch, 14pt)
> in KDE looks better than in Ratpoison... maybe KDE is loading some font
> aliasing or something.
>
> I'm not sure about the ultimate useability of Ratpoison or other
> non-mouse window managers.  Konsole has tabs, so you can have multiple
> console sessions; of course, Konsole can't detach like Screen.

Of course, that's a key part!
With Screen, you can detach from an xterm window, and reattach
in a VC screen, if you wanted to.
Or you can ssh into your box remotely and reattach quickly.
On one server box (no X), I *only* type 'ssh me at host'
and presto, screen reattaches automatically.
I rarely lose my "state" on that box.

Some of this work-flow could be done graphically with VNC
and X, but Screen does it so much more efficiently.


> Even
> though a graphic application gets its own full screen in Ratpoison, you
> have to use mouse within that application.  And, once your hand is on
> the mouse, it's quicker and easier to just move down and click an icon
> than to move your hand back to keyboard and type <C-t> key bindings.
>
> Ratpoison uses <C-t> whereas Screen uses <C-a> as command prefix.
> Unfortunately, <C-t> is used by Vim to return after jumping to a tag.

You can change the escape prefix in both Ratpoison and Screen.
For Screen, I use C-z, since C-a is used for "beginning of line"
in emacs/jove key bindings.

But now that you mention it, it makes sense to assign a single
key to such an important task, perhaps an F-key.

--
Eric B.
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From tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 30 14:30:18 2009
From: tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Seneca Cunningham)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:30:18 -0400
Subject: October meeting - call for short talks...
In-Reply-To: <f646b91f0908271204s7d9a670bvc68b8e9b714fb397-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f646b91f0908271204s7d9a670bvc68b8e9b714fb397@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b4f16d70908300730o3cdea742g1814a5c985aec90d@mail.gmail.com>

On 2009-08-27, Colin McGregor <colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>  So, we are looking for 4+ short (say 15 to 20 minute) talks that can
>  round out the evening. Got some small Linux related project that
>  hasn't received the attention it deserves, well October 13th will be
>  the perfect time to show it off...

I can do something brief on media metadata handling with exiftool

-- 
Seneca Cunningham
<tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
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From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Aug 30 14:37:10 2009
From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:37:10 -0400
Subject: October meeting - call for short talks...
In-Reply-To: <5b4f16d70908300730o3cdea742g1814a5c985aec90d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <f646b91f0908271204s7d9a670bvc68b8e9b714fb397@mail.gmail.com>
	 <5b4f16d70908300730o3cdea742g1814a5c985aec90d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f646b91f0908300737y500a7bdeq9b5704251f9414e@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/30/09, Seneca Cunningham <tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On 2009-08-27, Colin McGregor <colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>  So, we are looking for 4+ short (say 15 to 20 minute) talks that can
>>  round out the evening. Got some small Linux related project that
>>  hasn't received the attention it deserves, well October 13th will be
>>  the perfect time to show it off...
>
> I can do something brief on media metadata handling with exiftool

This sounds great.

Colin.

> --
> Seneca Cunningham
> <tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 31 14:20:58 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:20:58 -0700
Subject: Squid setup help
In-Reply-To: <4A9882D5.2000001-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A987EB8.30907@alteeve.com> <4A9882D5.2000001@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <3a97ef0908310720j16b217a1w63aaa6c0fdae2886@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Jamon Camisso<jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On 08/28/2009 09:04 PM, Madison Kelly wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A friend of mine is moving to a less than democratic country that
>> filters web access. I want to setup a really simple proxy server for her
>> to use so that she can stay in touch with her friends and family via
>> facebook (blocked there, atm).
>>
>> I've been looking through the squid3 docs but it's a bleeping novel.
>> Searching for sample configs fail to work, too. I freely admit this
>> might be a pebkac issue. I've never really looked into nor cared much
>> about proxies.
>>
>> Can someone here give me a hand or sample config file for setting up
>> squid? I've got a small server with a single Internet-facing IP address.
>>
>> I think I want a transparent, non-caching proxy server. She uses
>> Firefox, so I don't care about IE issues. Lastly, I don't know what her
>> IP will be nor do I know if it will stay within a given range. The
>> config files I've found so far all seem to expect you to know the IP
>> range you want to allow.
>
> I think you might find that OpenVPN is an easier solution. Perhaps that's
> just because I'm not sure how squid will handle DNS requests -- if it leaks
> and your friend's country limits access by DNS (in whole or in part), squid
> might still not work for her. I know you can specify DNS servers in squid's
> config though so maybe it is a non-issue.
>
> It just seems that, while a cache might make access faster, OpenVPN tunnels
> everything by design, e.g. it is explicitly designed to be secure and to
> achieve the functionality you're after. Squid, not so much, it's more of an
> everyperson's reverse cache/proxy/accelerator etc.
>
> My $0.02.
>
> Jamon
> --


I'd second that. Squid is more intended for caching and/or a larger
amount of users. Setting it up with network allow-lists isn't too
hard, but setting up the password access etc etc requires using
special auth programs and other special config to restrict which users
can utilize the proxy. Messing up leaves you with an open-proxy which
is ripe for abuse.

So long as you don't mind her pushing most or all of her traffic
through your box at a given time, the VPN is probably a better
solution in terms of setting up and security. You can even run an
OpenVPN client under PortableApps on a USB-stick now.
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From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 31 16:32:00 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:32:00 -0400
Subject: Anyone here using wordpress.com
Message-ID: <4A9BFB00.5060805@telly.org>

Hi all,

I really like Drupal and use it for a number of community sites. But
it's massive overkill for my own site, which when push comes to shove is
just a blogging site.

I was told by a friend that I could have my domain point to wordpress
and look like my own site. At a web level this works fine, but what
about mail destined for user at domain? What happens then? Is there a
rerouting interface (which is all I need)?

The online feature guides don't say much about this and tech support is
on collective holiday
(http://en.blog.wordpress.com/2009/08/26/support-hours-and-updates/)

So I'm hoping that someone here might know ... or know someone who knows...

Any pointers are appreciated.

- Evan

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From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 31 18:21:50 2009
From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aviss,Tyler)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:21:50 -0700
Subject: Anyone here using wordpress.com
In-Reply-To: <4A9BFB00.5060805-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A9BFB00.5060805@telly.org>
Message-ID: <F3E1B130-5E4D-4C0C-A2EE-C761192C2D0F@gmail.com>

You could have a subdomain for email that you repoint your MX record  
to, the point the A record for "www" (or *) to the WP site?


(sent from my phone, so please excuse the typos)

On 31-Aug-09, at 9:32 AM, Evan Leibovitch <evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I really like Drupal and use it for a number of community sites. But
> it's massive overkill for my own site, which when push comes to  
> shove is
> just a blogging site.
>
> I was told by a friend that I could have my domain point to wordpress
> and look like my own site. At a web level this works fine, but what
> about mail destined for user at domain? What happens then? Is there a
> rerouting interface (which is all I need)?
>
> The online feature guides don't say much about this and tech support  
> is
> on collective holiday
> (http://en.blog.wordpress.com/2009/08/26/support-hours-and-updates/)
>
> So I'm hoping that someone here might know ... or know someone who  
> knows...
>
> Any pointers are appreciated.
>
> - Evan
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
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From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 31 18:54:49 2009
From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:54:49 -0500
Subject: Strange problem with FF on Gentoo
Message-ID: <a3ed2cba0908311154n18fca13ep677280aeefc46bd2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm running Firefox 3.0.11 under Gentoo on an AMD 64, dual core. When I log
onto Baen's bar (a sci-fi publisher's set of fora, run by custom code on the
Baen server), I get a blank topic list when I log onto certain
high-traffic-volume fora. When I access with FF on windows, this doesn't
happen. I didn't see it on my laptop (running debian, using Iceweasel)
either. It DOES happen when I access on the Gentoo system using Konqueror
(I'm running KDE 3.5).

I suspect that it is a combination of a subtle bug in the bar code and a
Gentoo network configuration issue. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks, Colin

Late addendum - using the error terminal, I see that Firefox is generating a
"too much recursion" error as it loads the page. I also have the "one click
weather" extension, which I saw mentioned in connection with that error.
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From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 31 22:28:05 2009
From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:28:05 -0400
Subject: Anyone here using wordpress.com
In-Reply-To: <4A9BFB00.5060805-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A9BFB00.5060805@telly.org>
Message-ID: <4A9C4E75.1070006@rogers.com>

Evan Leibovitch wrote:
> I was told by a friend that I could have my domain point to wordpress
> and look like my own site. At a web level this works fine, but what
> about mail destined for user at domain? What happens then? Is there a
> rerouting interface (which is all I need)?
>   
Have you considered just installing wordpress on your site?

Stephen
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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 31 22:34:18 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:34:18 -0400
Subject: gmail mail client?
Message-ID: <a05162a70908311534n7ec77292w96808525bd152947@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a non-web browser mail client that will let me access gmail
directly and also group conversations and allow me to filter message
to different folders?

-- 
Kind Regards,
Rajinder Yadav
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://gtalug.org/
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From tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 31 22:40:00 2009
From: tbrucemilne-TcoXwbchSccMMYnvST3LeUB+6BGkLq7r at public.gmane.org (Thomas Milne)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:40:00 -0400
Subject: gmail mail client?
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908311534n7ec77292w96808525bd152947-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908311534n7ec77292w96808525bd152947@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cc63eb120908311540o1e4472cdxa6af875ace6d9c96@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 6:34 PM, Rajinder Yadav<devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Is there a non-web browser mail client that will let me access gmail
> directly and also group conversations and allow me to filter message
> to different folders?
>
Claws works with GMail:

http://tinyurl.com/nhab7n
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From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 31 22:48:31 2009
From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:48:31 -0400
Subject: gmail mail client?
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908311534n7ec77292w96808525bd152947-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908311534n7ec77292w96808525bd152947@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A9C533F.9050205@rogers.com>

Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> Is there a non-web browser mail client that will let me access gmail
> directly and also group conversations and allow me to filter message
> to different folders?
>
>   
Yes.

Thunderbird.

Stephen
--
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From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 31 22:49:00 2009
From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 02:49:00 +0400
Subject: gmail mail client?
In-Reply-To: <a05162a70908311534n7ec77292w96808525bd152947-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908311534n7ec77292w96808525bd152947@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A9C535C.6080406@gmail.com>

Rajinder Yadav wrote:
> Is there a non-web browser mail client that will let me access gmail
> directly and also group conversations and allow me to filter message
> to different folders?
>
>   
Gmail allows POP and SMTP access at ports listed at their web site. I 
use Thunderbird at the moment but many other will do. So, you have a big 
choice. Just try the one you like.

zb.


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From devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 31 23:12:41 2009
From: devguy.ca-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rajinder Yadav)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:12:41 -0400
Subject: gmail mail client?
In-Reply-To: <4A9C533F.9050205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <a05162a70908311534n7ec77292w96808525bd152947@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C533F.9050205@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4A9C58E9.90105@gmail.com>

Stephen wrote:
> Rajinder Yadav wrote:
>> Is there a non-web browser mail client that will let me access gmail
>> directly and also group conversations and allow me to filter message
>> to different folders?
>>
>>   
> Yes.
> 
> Thunderbird.

Thanks just installed it and replying from Thunderbird. now just to 
figure out how to group threads and set up the filters I had in my gmail 
web account.

> 
> Stephen

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From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 31 23:24:13 2009
From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:24:13 -0400
Subject: Anyone here using wordpress.com
In-Reply-To: <4A9C4E75.1070006-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A9BFB00.5060805@telly.org> <4A9C4E75.1070006@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <4A9C5B9D.1010105@telly.org>

Stephen wrote:
>> I was told by a friend that I could have my domain point to wordpress
>> and look like my own site. At a web level this works fine, but what
>> about mail destined for user at domain? What happens then? Is there a
>> rerouting interface (which is all I need)?
>>   
> Have you considered just installing wordpress on your site?


Heh. That's what I ended up doing at the end of the day (literally).

Instead of wordpress here, DNS hosting there, email forwarding somewhere
else, I just stayed with my $60/year hosting site that can do all of
that. There is something occasionally to be said in favour of inertia. :-)


- Evan
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From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org  Mon Aug 31 23:42:54 2009
From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:42:54 -0400
Subject: unhappy hacking keyboardless
In-Reply-To: <4A96E297.2090402-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org>
References: <4A96E297.2090402@linuxcaffe.ca>
Message-ID: <4A9C5FFE.1060207@linuxcaffe.ca>

David J Patrick wrote:
> I have a dozen keyboards.
> 
> they all suck
> 
> I need a new one

Thanks to the compassionate TLUG members who responded in my hour of 
digital distress. Because of your generous natures, I have attained 
inner keyboard peace.

The problem exists once more between my new keyboard and my old chair..
..no.. wait.. it must be the chair
;-)
djp

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