From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 1 18:05:24 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:05:24 -0400 Subject: OT: quick and dirty interactive electoral vote calculator Message-ID: <1225562724.10856.8707.camel@localhost> hi folks, hope it's ok to ask a quick non-linux question. I'm just making a quick US election spreadsheet, with rows for the various states. I intended to have a radio button for each row, with the possible values "Obama", "McCain", amd "Undecided"; depending on the value, the electoral votes for that state would be added to the electoral college total for Obama, McCain, or neither. As far as i can see there's no simple way to do this in Openoffice. How would other people solve this problem, either in openoffice or using some other tool? It seems like a very simple problem, but I don't want have to build a whole new interface from scratch just to make it work. And while there are lots of online calculators, i expect firefox to crash multiple times on election night and i don't want to keep losing my predictions. Anyone have any suggestions? thanks, matt -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org o -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 1 18:45:13 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:45:13 -0400 Subject: OT: quick and dirty interactive electoral vote calculator In-Reply-To: <1225562724.10856.8707.camel@localhost> References: <1225562724.10856.8707.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <490CA3B9.7020109@rogers.com> Matt Price wrote: > hope it's ok to ask a quick non-linux question. I'm just making a quick > US election spreadsheet, with rows for the various states. I intended > to have a radio button for each row, with the possible values "Obama", > "McCain", amd "Undecided"; depending on the value, the electoral votes > for that state would be added to the electoral college total for Obama, > McCain, or neither. As far as i can see there's no simple way to do > this in Openoffice. > I am not familiar with open office, but in EXCEL I would define a range to include three cells, Obama, McCain, Undecided. Use these to make a drop down selection for the row for each state in column B. C column would have the electoral votes. D, E & F would have formulas to select the electoral votes based on the value of the drop down. Add a totals row and you are done. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 1 20:14:13 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 16:14:13 -0400 Subject: OT: quick and dirty interactive electoral vote calculator In-Reply-To: <1225562724.10856.8707.camel@localhost> References: <1225562724.10856.8707.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <490CB895.2050106@rogers.com> Matt Price wrote: > hi folks, > > hope it's ok to ask a quick non-linux question. I'm just making a quick > US election spreadsheet, with rows for the various states. I intended > to have a radio button for each row, with the possible values "Obama", > "McCain", amd "Undecided"; depending on the value, the electoral votes > for that state would be added to the electoral college total for Obama, > McCain, or neither. As far as i can see there's no simple way to do > this in Openoffice. > > How would other people solve this problem, either in openoffice or using > some other tool? It seems like a very simple problem, but I don't want > have to build a whole new interface from scratch just to make it work. > And while there are lots of online calculators, i expect firefox to > crash multiple times on election night and i don't want to keep losing > my predictions. Anyone have any suggestions? > > Can we vote for Tina Fey? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 1 21:28:05 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 17:28:05 -0400 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps Message-ID: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> Hi Is anyone using the above and would like to share their experience, both good and bad? What is the performance with Bittorrent? The Bell salesperson first told me that Bell does not do trafficshaping. When pointed out that the issue is before the CRTC, he informed me that the CRTC forces Bell to trafficshape. Finally, he admitted that Bell trafficshapes because users are using "excessive" bandwidth(but the cap is 60 GB per month). All this in less than 3 minutes and without embarrassment. I have the impression that if telling me that Obama is the AntiChrist would clinch my signing up, he would. Any info will be appreciated. Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 1 21:38:02 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 17:38:02 -0400 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490CC9E5.5010609-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20081101173802.46014777@teksavvy.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > Is anyone using the above and would like to share their experience, both > good and bad? > > What is the performance with Bittorrent? > > The Bell salesperson first told me that Bell does not do trafficshaping. > When pointed out that the issue is before the CRTC, he informed me that > the CRTC forces Bell to trafficshape. > Finally, he admitted that Bell trafficshapes because users are using > "excessive" bandwidth(but the cap is 60 GB per month). > All this in less than 3 minutes and without embarrassment. > I have the impression that if telling me that Obama is the AntiChrist > would clinch my signing up, he would. > > Any info will be appreciated. I cannot describe the horrors that await you if you sign up with Bell. The exchange you describe above is completely normal, and you should expect similar discussions with any support drone you speak with if you use Sympatico. They haven't the faintest idea about anything to do with the Internet, and will hang up on you if you demand anything approaching a truthful or factual answer. The traffic shaping, at least for now, will be the same anywhere you go since Bell applies it's idiotic scheme to all its lines. It does not apply to Bittorrent, it applies to any and all encrypted protocols you use, like SSH or VPN. Bell is nothing short of a blight on the Internet, and needs to be removed from our corporate culture altogether. -- Joe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 1 21:56:42 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 17:56:42 -0400 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490CC9E5.5010609-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <490CD09A.9080007@rogers.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > Hi > > Is anyone using the above and would like to share their experience, > both good and bad? > > What is the performance with Bittorrent? > > The Bell salesperson first told me that Bell does not do trafficshaping. > When pointed out that the issue is before the CRTC, he informed me > that the CRTC forces Bell to trafficshape. > Finally, he admitted that Bell trafficshapes because users are using > "excessive" bandwidth(but the cap is 60 GB per month). > All this in less than 3 minutes and without embarrassment. > I have the impression that if telling me that Obama is the AntiChrist > would clinch my signing up, he would. Well, what do you expect from a salesman? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 00:37:48 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 20:37:48 -0400 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490CC9E5.5010609-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20081102003748.GA19776@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Sat, Nov 01, 2008 at 05:28:05PM -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: > Is anyone using the above and would like to share their experience, both > good and bad? Bell has unspeakable customer service. If you are going to use DSL, get it from teksavvy.com - good prices, smart people, real answers. I am only a customer, but a very happy one. There is trafficshaping, and it is all Bell's fault, there is nothing teksavvy can really do about it. > What is the performance with Bittorrent? The primary shaping seems to be between 6pm and 8am, and so you get poor performance at night - workable speeds, but nothing good (20-40kbps). During the day it can just up to very high levels (I have seen 500+ kbps). The shaping is the same with Rogers, but you can never have a server, whereas with a Bell reseller like teksavvy, you can. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 03:26:27 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 23:26:27 -0400 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490CC9E5.5010609-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <490D1DE3.9050304@rogers.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > Hi > > Is anyone using the above and would like to share their experience, both > good and bad? > > What is the performance with Bittorrent? > > The Bell salesperson first told me that Bell does not do trafficshaping. > When pointed out that the issue is before the CRTC, he informed me that > the CRTC forces Bell to trafficshape. > Finally, he admitted that Bell trafficshapes because users are using > "excessive" bandwidth(but the cap is 60 GB per month). > All this in less than 3 minutes and without embarrassment. > I have the impression that if telling me that Obama is the AntiChrist > would clinch my signing up, he would. > > Any info will be appreciated. > > Regards > > Meng I regularly get called in by new Sympatico subscribers to sort out the mess left by Bell's own technicians. Wrong passwords and b1 i.d. numbers (issued by Bell) that don't match up with the modem/router or the info they have at the call center are the rule rather than the exception. They are currently issuing a new wireless router/ modem combo. It comes pre-configured with an SSID and in twenty client calls so far I have only encounter three that worked as advertised. Either they don't transmit wirelessly at all or if you try to set up WPA they fail and you have to reset the unit and start over and choose WEP. They will send out a new unit without much argument though and I assume that this means that they are well aware of the problem (but not so much that they will scrap these crappy units altogether). Also there are many areas of the old (pre-amalgamation) city of Toronto where Bell did not adequately upgrade the local loop when they switched from pulse to tone dialing in the 1960's. If you live in one of those areas you will not get anywhere near the speed that Sympatico sells you on. Have a look at this video from CBC's Marketplace for further confirmation of Sympatico's lousy service: http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2007/11/21/speed_bumps/ If you look closely about half way through the video you will see that the large file that the Marketplace testers are downloading is an Ubuntu iso. HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 05:05:02 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 01:05:02 -0400 Subject: OT: quick and dirty interactive electoral vote calculator In-Reply-To: <490CA3B9.7020109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1225562724.10856.8707.camel@localhost> <490CA3B9.7020109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1225602302.10856.11080.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2008-11-01 at 14:45 -0400, Stephen wrote: > Matt Price wrote: > > hope it's ok to ask a quick non-linux question. I'm just making a quick > > US election spreadsheet, with rows for the various states. I intended > > to have a radio button for each row, with the possible values "Obama", > > "McCain", amd "Undecided"; depending on the value, the electoral votes > > for that state would be added to the electoral college total for Obama, > > McCain, or neither. As far as i can see there's no simple way to do > > this in Openoffice. > > > I am not familiar with open office, but in EXCEL I would define a range > to include three cells, Obama, McCain, Undecided. > > Use these to make a drop down selection for the row for each state in > column B. C column would have the electoral votes. D, E & F would have > formulas to select the electoral votes based on the value of the drop down. > > Add a totals row and you are done. thanks stephen. that taught me quite a bit about spreadsheets -- i learned how to to makethose dropdown boxes, and how to put conditional statements into cell formulae. The format still seems a little bit limited to me -- the dropdown box is a little awkward to navigate; i feel like i ought to be able to insert other kinds of elements, like checkboxes. i'm going to look at the forms capabilities of ooo and see if that provides some extra flexibility... matt > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 14:43:51 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 09:43:51 -0500 Subject: ASUS Service No=276140 In-Reply-To: <18514798.1225498414555.JavaMail.e_service@eServiceACI02> References: <18514798.1225498414555.JavaMail.e_service@eServiceACI02> Message-ID: On 10/31/08, e_service-4gYQFoH7KfRNUHwG+Fw1Kw at public.gmane.org wrote: > Mr. Colin, > > I am following up with your case regarding the M2N-MX SE Plus board that you > are having problems installing a Linux based OS on. After researching your > previous case info, I see that same problem was identified where the > Knoppmyth OS gave errors and would not install on multiple boards. The > repair technician came to the conclusion that the Linux based OS you are > trying to install is not supported by this board. However, when any Windows > OS was installed, it passed testing and ran successfully. > Feel free to contact us if you have any hardware issues with the board or > other problems with the board with the Windows OS that your board was > tested on and guaranteed to support. > > Thank you, > > ASUS Techncial Support > 812-282-2787 option 2, 2 Your manual does NOT state that this motherboard is a Windows only motherboard. This brings me back to the problem I had 4 months ago, I need a motherboard that can do a network boot for use as a MythTV remote front end. Four months ago I went looking for a motherboard with the following: - Support for network booting. - MicroATX form factor - Support for AMD AM2 socket CPU - nVidia GeForce 5200 or better on board graphics graphics - Support for PCIExpress video card. Now, according to your manual, the ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS meets all of the above points, something I was given to understand was true during my initial three motherboard returns. Only with this fourth service return was I told that what is in the manual is incorrect. This leaves me with two related problems, given the time that has elapsed I can not return the motherboard to the place of purchase and I still need a working motherboard. Since I can not trust the material in the ASUS manuals, what motherboards do you sell, with the above features, that do work under Linux? Further, what is the proper way to dispose of a motherboard that does not perform to specification? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 15:27:04 2008 From: steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (steven) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 10:27:04 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490CC9E5.5010609-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <490DC6C8.5040108@computer.org> Meng Cheah wrote: > Hi > > Is anyone using the above and would like to share their experience, > both good and bad? > > What is the performance with Bittorrent? > > The Bell salesperson first told me that Bell does not do trafficshaping. > When pointed out that the issue is before the CRTC, he informed me > that the CRTC forces Bell to trafficshape. > Finally, he admitted that Bell trafficshapes because users are using > "excessive" bandwidth(but the cap is 60 GB per month). > All this in less than 3 minutes and without embarrassment. > I have the impression that if telling me that Obama is the AntiChrist > would clinch my signing up, he would. > > Any info will be appreciated. > > Regards > > Meng > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Be careful with Bell. I have been through a tech-support marathon with them trying to get even moderately reliable DSL service. After many weeks of frustration, they finally achieved an improvement by restricting my Internet bandwidth to below 3 Mbps. Even this is not totally satisfactory because we still have periods of poor performance and intermittent failure! Strangely, the Internet service sometimes improves when the line is off-hook! I am convinced there is something happening that is not being communicated to me. Steve -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 16:30:34 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 11:30:34 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <20081102003748.GA19776-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <20081102003748.GA19776@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1225643435.10856.11161.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2008-11-01 at 20:37 -0400, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Sat, Nov 01, 2008 at 05:28:05PM -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: > > > Is anyone using the above and would like to share their experience, both > > good and bad? > > Bell has unspeakable customer service. If you are going to use DSL, get > it from teksavvy.com - good prices, smart people, real answers. I am > only a customer, but a very happy one. There is trafficshaping, and it > is all Bell's fault, there is nothing teksavvy can really do about it. > > What is the performance with Bittorrent? > > The primary shaping seems to be between 6pm and 8am, and so you get poor > performance at night - workable speeds, but nothing good (20-40kbps). > During the day it can just up to very high levels (I have seen 500+ kbps). > The shaping is the same with Rogers, but you can never have a server, > whereas with a Bell reseller like teksavvy, you can. i've heard that you cna get around the trafficshaping using mlppp-enabled routers running e.g. the tomato firmware. has anyone else heard this? matt -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 18:40:52 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 13:40:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: initial experiences with Ubuntu 8.10 (Intrepid) Message-ID: I've installed 8.10 on a couple of desktops and notebooks. It seems to install smoothly. I'll just report the things that were not so smooth. I've only just started using Intrepid so many surprises are likely awaiting. - I want to choose Toronto for the timezone. The world map scrolls in unintuitive ways. - on a couple of machines, at the end of installation, it fails to eject the CD. It then asked for me to type return after removing the disk. - the Canadian servers seem very slow. Choose the main servers instead. Maybe that will improve once demand dies back to normal. System:Administration:Software_Sources (You should always ask for updates right after installation.) - installing jove (apt-get install jove) pulled in m4 and sendmail and friends. Scary and surprising. (This stuff had to be pulled from the internet since the installation CD doesn't have it.) - installing kompare pulled in a lot of KDE, all from the net. apt-get said: Need to get 285kB of archives. After this operation, 782kB of additional disk space will be used. That seems a bit much. - ejecting a disk from the desktop reminds me of Thing from the Addams Family: it ejects the disk and then immediately pulls the tray back and remounts the disk. Fedora 9 got a bug like that via an update and then got it fixed. I bought a couple of cheap computers from Factory Direct: http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=HP0515 http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/aa/en/sm/WF10a/12454-12454-64287-3328896-3328896-447468.html (Very solidly built (as "business" machines). They were $70 with a coupon (now expired). Not as quiet as I had hoped. Came loaded with FreeDOS; sticker for WinXP Pro license.) I installed Intrepid on them. Worked well. Suspend actually works! A first in my experience with Linux on a desktop. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 18:59:20 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 13:59:20 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490D1DE3.9050304-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <490D1DE3.9050304@rogers.com> Message-ID: <490DF888.10509@rogers.com> John McGregor wrote: > > I regularly get called in by new Sympatico subscribers to sort out the > mess left by Bell's own technicians. Wrong passwords and b1 i.d. > numbers (issued by Bell) that don't match up with the modem/router or > the info they have at the call center are the rule rather than the > exception. They are currently issuing a new wireless router/ modem > combo. It comes pre-configured with an SSID and in twenty client calls > so far I have only encounter three that worked as advertised. Either > they don't transmit wirelessly at all or if you try to set up WPA they > fail and you have to reset the unit and start over and choose WEP. > They will send out a new unit without much argument though and I > assume that this means that they are well aware of the problem (but > not so much that they will scrap these crappy units altogether). Also > there are many areas of the old (pre-amalgamation) city of Toronto > where Bell did not adequately upgrade the local loop when they > switched from pulse to tone dialing in the 1960's. If you live in one > of those areas you will not get anywhere near the speed that Sympatico > sells you on. Have a look at this video from CBC's Marketplace for > further confirmation of Sympatico's lousy service: > http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2007/11/21/speed_bumps/ I'm on Rogers and according to their speed test, I get very close to the advertised 10 Mb down / 800K up. If I go to www.speedtest.net, I get rates just slightly less than what I see from the Rogers. test, so I am getting what I pay for, though at some times, such as after school's out, the service is slower. Perhaps what the ADSL providers should do, is set the rates according to what can be reliably obtained from their own test sites. If they can only deliver 1 Mb, then don't charge for 7 etc. Since ADSL performance is not dependent on neighbourhood usage, the results should be reasonably accurate. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 19:00:11 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 14:00:11 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490D1DE3.9050304-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <490D1DE3.9050304@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20081102140011.77a02be4@teksavvy.com> John McGregor wrote: > Meng Cheah wrote: > > Hi > > > > Is anyone using the above and would like to share their experience, both > > good and bad? > > > > What is the performance with Bittorrent? > > > > The Bell salesperson first told me that Bell does not do trafficshaping. > > When pointed out that the issue is before the CRTC, he informed me that > > the CRTC forces Bell to trafficshape. > > Finally, he admitted that Bell trafficshapes because users are using > > "excessive" bandwidth(but the cap is 60 GB per month). > > All this in less than 3 minutes and without embarrassment. > > I have the impression that if telling me that Obama is the AntiChrist > > would clinch my signing up, he would. > > > > Any info will be appreciated. > > > > Regards > > > > Meng > > I regularly get called in by new Sympatico subscribers to sort out the > mess left by Bell's own technicians. Wrong passwords and b1 i.d. numbers > (issued by Bell) that don't match up with the modem/router or the info > they have at the call center are the rule rather than the exception. > They are currently issuing a new wireless router/ modem combo. It comes > pre-configured with an SSID and in twenty client calls so far I have > only encounter three that worked as advertised. Either they don't > transmit wirelessly at all or if you try to set up WPA they fail and you > have to reset the unit and start over and choose WEP. They will send out > a new unit without much argument though and I assume that this means > that they are well aware of the problem (but not so much that they will > scrap these crappy units altogether). Also there are many areas of the > old (pre-amalgamation) city of Toronto where Bell did not adequately > upgrade the local loop when they switched from pulse to tone dialing in > the 1960's. If you live in one of those areas you will not get anywhere > near the speed that Sympatico sells you on. Have a look at this video > from CBC's Marketplace for further confirmation of Sympatico's lousy > service: > http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2007/11/21/speed_bumps/ > > If you look closely about half way through the video you will see that > the large file that the Marketplace testers are downloading is an Ubuntu > iso. I can't even paly the video. What plugin is it that I need? -- Joe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 19:23:49 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 14:23:49 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <20081102140011.77a02be4-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <490D1DE3.9050304@rogers.com> <20081102140011.77a02be4@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <490DFE45.2050607@rogers.com> JoeHill wrote: > John McGregor wrote: > >> http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2007/11/21/speed_bumps/ >> >> If you look closely about half way through the video you will see that >> the large file that the Marketplace testers are downloading is an Ubuntu >> iso. >> > > I can't even paly the video. What plugin is it that I need? > > I had to boot my ThinkPad into Windows to watch it. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 20:17:56 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 15:17:56 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <20081102140011.77a02be4-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <490D1DE3.9050304@rogers.com> <20081102140011.77a02be4@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420811021217ya8e3daep53389d1b78f68694@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 2:00 PM, JoeHill wrote: > I can't even paly the video. What plugin is it that I need? I managed to play it with mplayer, but I had to open the .wmv file and copy the mms:// URL from the file onto the mplayer command line. I have no idea which codec was used to play the video, though. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 21:27:34 2008 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 16:27:34 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490CC9E5.5010609-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Meng Cheah wrote: > Hi > > Is anyone using the above and would like to share their experience, both > good and bad? I have both good and bad stories to tell. I've had Sympatico service since it was available (since 2000?) , and I'm now on my third DSL modem. Service has been OK -- although I don't use BitTorrent, so I have no way of knowing if my traffic is being shaped. First the good news: I was getting 3MB/sec about six months ago, not bad, but like anything else, you always want more, so when someone from Sympatico called and offered me 5MB/sec for $40/month, down from my original plan of $45/month, I said I was interested. Yes, there was a 30G/month cap, but first I asked if there was some for me to find out how much bandwidth I was using (yes, that's possible from the web site) and how much overage would cost me ($1.50 per additional G). With that in mind, I decided I could live with the new service, and I told him to sign me up. He said the faster speed should kick in within a week. An aside: my situation is a little unusual -- I have two phone lines at my house, one for my business (on hiatus right now), and one for the family. I have Internet service on the business line. Can you see trouble brewing? Anyway, two weeks went buy and there was no speed improvement, so when Sympatico called out of the blue to ask how things were, I posed the question, why isn't my bandwidth better? Oh, the tech said, you have 5MB/sec service on your number. No I don't, I said, I have 3MB/sec, and checked it while I talked with him. Then the awful truth revealed itself -- the geniuses (and I use this term loosely) at Sympatico had *added* a *new* DSL connection to my home line, rather than *upgrading* the *existing* service on my business line. Sigh. I was very unhappy, and although it took a while for him to understand me, the tech did eventually get that he was to cancel the DSL on the home number and *upgrade* the business line DSL. And he refunded the month's service I'd been billed. And, yes, the business line's DSL now works at 5MB/sec -- the upload speed used to be 80K/sec; I think it is a little better now -- perhaps 120K/sec -- but I'm not exactly sure. On a related note, my previous modem/router combination started to die about six months back, and after getting nowhere with Sympatico tech support, I went out and bought myself a nice Sympatico approved modem (2701HG-G -- complete with Sympatico logo -- it's legit) from Future Shop. Of course, when Sympatico incorrectly added the new DSL service to my home number, they shipped me a new modem -- exactly the same one I was already using. I had been ready to install this, imagining that I needed a newer modem to get the higher speed, but when I discovered it was exactly the same model as the modem that I already had, I decided not to bother. So I contacted Sympatico, and asked them to send me a label so I could send this unneeded modem back, along with the old one that died. That extremely complicated process took me 35 minutes over an Internet chat. Thirty. Five. Minutes. > What is the performance with Bittorrent? Because of the asymmetrical Internet connection that DSL provides, I've always figured running BitTorrent wouldn't be very productive -- I'd probably want to throttle it down so it didn't use all of my up-channel, and I always imagined having a ratio of 5M down to (say) 50K up (a ratio of 100 to 1) wouldn't really be very useful. But I'd be interested to hear other points of view. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 21:33:29 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 16:33:29 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <20081102140011.77a02be4-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <490D1DE3.9050304@rogers.com> <20081102140011.77a02be4@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <490E1CA9.6090305@rogers.com> JoeHill wrote: > > I can't even paly the video. What plugin is it that I need? > I don't know for sure -- likely one of the later versions of Flash. I played it on Mepis 7 (Firefox 2) without a problem. I just assumed that most of you would be able to do so as well. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 21:37:05 2008 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 16:37:05 -0500 Subject: initial experiences with Ubuntu 8.10 (Intrepid) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <490E1D81.2030108@iprimus.ca> Hello Hugh My experience with Ubuntu 8.10 was also very positive. I noticed that at first, some of my applications (Firefox, Opera, etc) seemed a bit slow, but after a day or so, everything worked well. Yesterday I removed Openoffice 2.4 which was bundled with 8.10 and installed OO 3.0. Once again it seemed to start slowly at first but after a couple of hours, loading any of the tools, Writer, calc, etc seemed to load rather quickly. I am extremely happy with Ubuntu, which performs admirably on my relatively old box.. 1400 mhz athlon, 256 megs ram, 40 gig hard drive D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I've installed 8.10 on a couple of desktops and notebooks. It seems to > install smoothly. I'll just report the things that were not so smooth. > I've only just started using Intrepid so many surprises are likely > awaiting. > > - I want to choose Toronto for the timezone. The world map scrolls in > unintuitive ways. > > - on a couple of machines, at the end of installation, it fails to > eject the CD. It then asked for me to type return after removing > the disk. > > - the Canadian servers seem very slow. Choose the main servers > instead. Maybe that will improve once demand dies back to normal. > System:Administration:Software_Sources > (You should always ask for updates right after installation.) > > - installing jove (apt-get install jove) pulled in m4 and sendmail and > friends. Scary and surprising. (This stuff had to be pulled from > the internet since the installation CD doesn't have it.) > > - installing kompare pulled in a lot of KDE, all from the net. > apt-get said: > Need to get 285kB of archives. > After this operation, 782kB of additional disk space will be used. > That seems a bit much. > > - ejecting a disk from the desktop reminds me of Thing from the Addams > Family: it ejects the disk and then immediately pulls the tray back > and remounts the disk. Fedora 9 got a bug like that via an update > and then got it fixed. > > I bought a couple of cheap computers from Factory Direct: > http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=HP0515 > http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/aa/en/sm/WF10a/12454-12454-64287-3328896-3328896-447468.html > (Very solidly built (as "business" machines). They were $70 with a > coupon (now expired). Not as quiet as I had hoped. Came loaded with > FreeDOS; sticker for WinXP Pro license.) > > I installed Intrepid on them. Worked well. Suspend actually works! > A first in my experience with Linux on a desktop. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- Clive DaSilva CMA Tel: 416-421-2480 Cell: 416-560-8820 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 2 21:47:31 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 16:47:31 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490E1CA9.6090305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <490D1DE3.9050304@rogers.com> <20081102140011.77a02be4@teksavvy.com> <490E1CA9.6090305@rogers.com> Message-ID: <490E1FF3.1020101@utoronto.ca> John McGregor wrote: > JoeHill wrote: > >> >> I can't even paly the video. What plugin is it that I need? >> > > I don't know for sure -- likely one of the later versions of Flash. I > played it on Mepis 7 (Firefox 2) without a problem. I just assumed that > most of you would be able to do so as well. When viewing that page in Iceweasel 3.0.3: zeus% ps ax |grep totem 2851 ? SLl 0:00 /usr/lib/totem/gstreamer/totem-plugin-viewer --plugin-type gmp --user-agent Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.0.3) Gecko/2008092814 Iceweasel/3.0.3 (Debian-3.0.3-2) --mimetype video/x-msvideo zeus% $ apt-cache show totem-mozilla Package: totem-mozilla Priority: optional Section: web Installed-Size: 237 Maintainer: Sebastien Bacher Architecture: all Source: totem Version: 2.22.2-4 Depends: totem-gstreamer (>= 2.22.2-4) | totem-xine (>= 2.22.2-4), dbus-x11 (>= 0.61) Recommends: epiphany-browser | www-browser Filename: pool/main/t/totem/totem-mozilla_2.22.2-4_all.deb Size: 235524 MD5sum: e5089bb674f8349d4b91b9a0eff1a8a9 SHA1: ce5cdd921fe03b10ae972d16dcc07aa1697d0295 SHA256: a7e96eae0a3b21ed7e32ed718f43d8aa7c9b6c3799b6b95ebd6628a485e5b532 Description: Totem Mozilla plugin This package contains the Totem Mozilla plugin, which will enhance your Gecko-based browser to be able to display movie clips. . This plugin should work for Iceweasel as well as XULRunner based browsers. Homepage: http://www.gnome.org/projects/totem/ Tag: role::plugin, suite::mozilla, works-with::video I have the folliwng gstreamer packages installed (must have done it long ago, I don't recall installing any of them): zeus% dpkg -l |grep -i gstreamer |awk '{print $2}' gstreamer0.10-alsa gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3 gstreamer0.10-gnomevfs gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-base gstreamer0.10-plugins-good gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-tools gstreamer0.10-x libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 libgstreamer0.10-0 totem-gstreamer Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 00:09:31 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:09:31 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490E1FF3.1020101-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <490D1DE3.9050304@rogers.com> <20081102140011.77a02be4@teksavvy.com> <490E1CA9.6090305@rogers.com> <490E1FF3.1020101@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20081102190931.23016320@teksavvy.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > John McGregor wrote: > > JoeHill wrote: > > > >> > >> I can't even paly the video. What plugin is it that I need? > >> > > > > I don't know for sure -- likely one of the later versions of Flash. I > > played it on Mepis 7 (Firefox 2) without a problem. I just assumed that > > most of you would be able to do so as well. > > When viewing that page in Iceweasel 3.0.3: > > zeus% ps ax |grep totem > 2851 ? SLl 0:00 /usr/lib/totem/gstreamer/totem-plugin-viewer > --plugin-type gmp --user-agent Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; > rv:1.9.0.3) Gecko/2008092814 Iceweasel/3.0.3 (Debian-3.0.3-2) --mimetype > video/x-msvideo > > zeus% $ apt-cache show totem-mozilla > Package: totem-mozilla > Priority: optional > Section: web > Installed-Size: 237 > Maintainer: Sebastien Bacher > Architecture: all > Source: totem > Version: 2.22.2-4 > Depends: totem-gstreamer (>= 2.22.2-4) | totem-xine (>= 2.22.2-4), > dbus-x11 (>= 0.61) > Recommends: epiphany-browser | www-browser > Filename: pool/main/t/totem/totem-mozilla_2.22.2-4_all.deb > Size: 235524 > MD5sum: e5089bb674f8349d4b91b9a0eff1a8a9 > SHA1: ce5cdd921fe03b10ae972d16dcc07aa1697d0295 > SHA256: a7e96eae0a3b21ed7e32ed718f43d8aa7c9b6c3799b6b95ebd6628a485e5b532 > Description: Totem Mozilla plugin > This package contains the Totem Mozilla plugin, which will > enhance your Gecko-based browser to be able to display movie > clips. > . > This plugin should work for Iceweasel as well as XULRunner based browsers. > Homepage: http://www.gnome.org/projects/totem/ > Tag: role::plugin, suite::mozilla, works-with::video > > I have the folliwng gstreamer packages installed (must have done it long > ago, I don't recall installing any of them): > > zeus% dpkg -l |grep -i gstreamer |awk '{print $2}' > gstreamer0.10-alsa > gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg > gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3 > gstreamer0.10-gnomevfs > gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad > gstreamer0.10-plugins-base > gstreamer0.10-plugins-good > gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly > gstreamer0.10-tools > gstreamer0.10-x > libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 > libgstreamer0.10-0 > totem-gstreamer Same (and more) here: joehill at node1:~$ dpkg -l |grep -i gstreamer |awk '{print $2}' gstreamer0.10-alsa gstreamer0.10-esd gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-gnomevfs gstreamer0.10-lame gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-base gstreamer0.10-plugins-farsight gstreamer0.10-plugins-good gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-tools gstreamer0.10-x libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0 libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev libgstreamer0.10-0 libgstreamer0.10-dev totem-gstreamer Using Firefox 3.03... However, when I use Iceweasel it works fine. Maybe I'll try using Iceweasel for awhile ;) Thanks! -- Joe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 14:19:02 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 09:19:02 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490CC9E5.5010609-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20081103141902.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 01, 2008 at 05:28:05PM -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: > Is anyone using the above and would like to share their experience, both > good and bad? > > What is the performance with Bittorrent? > > The Bell salesperson first told me that Bell does not do trafficshaping. > When pointed out that the issue is before the CRTC, he informed me that > the CRTC forces Bell to trafficshape. > Finally, he admitted that Bell trafficshapes because users are using > "excessive" bandwidth(but the cap is 60 GB per month). > All this in less than 3 minutes and without embarrassment. > I have the impression that if telling me that Obama is the AntiChrist > would clinch my signing up, he would. > > Any info will be appreciated. Well Bell performs traffic shapping on the DSL backhaul, so they certainly are traffic shaping. I believe they were doing it to their own customers long before starting to do it to other customers. Bell Sympatico also has a long history of awful service, billing screwups (like how to make them stop billing you for service you no longer have), etc. And of course they use MSN/hotmail for their mail service as far as I can tell. Any other DSL provider is likely to provide better service, better tech support, better conditions, and lower price, and usually the same speed too. I will NEVER have service from Sympatico. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 14:25:44 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 09:25:44 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20081103142544.GE5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 02, 2008 at 04:27:34PM -0500, Alex Beamish wrote: > And, yes, the business line's DSL now works at 5MB/sec -- the upload > speed used to be 80K/sec; I think it is a little better now -- perhaps > 120K/sec -- but I'm not exactly sure. Nope. Can't be. ADSL only supports 800kbps upstream, and up to 8Mbps downstream. Any more would require a new standard (like ADSP2 for example). > Because of the asymmetrical Internet connection that DSL provides, > I've always figured running BitTorrent wouldn't be very productive -- > I'd probably want to throttle it down so it didn't use all of my > up-channel, and I always imagined having a ratio of 5M down to (say) > 50K up (a ratio of 100 to 1) wouldn't really be very useful. But I'd > be interested to hear other points of view. I just run with an upstream cap of 5KB/s. That way even if I leave things on 24/7 it will never get anywhere near my monthly cap, while still providing useful help to the torrent. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 14:43:34 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 09:43:34 -0500 Subject: [OT] Home Network, Two Routers Message-ID: <490F0E16.70902@rogers.com> I have a home network that runs through a 4 port router that is also wireless. But the walls in my condo do not allow for connections from the living room. I ran wire to the living room to connect my Playstation. Now, I want to connect a second router in the living room so I can have wireless in there. How should I set this up? Should I use DHCP, or just hard code the IPs in the second router? I think the second router has to assign the wireless IPs. I want the different computers to all "see" each other. Is this possible? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 16:31:28 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 11:31:28 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <20081103141902.GD5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <20081103141902.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <490F2760.1070905@pppoe.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Nov 01, 2008 at 05:28:05PM -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: > >> Is anyone using the above and would like to share their experience, both >> good and bad? >> >> What is the performance with Bittorrent? >> >> The Bell salesperson first told me that Bell does not do trafficshaping. >> When pointed out that the issue is before the CRTC, he informed me that >> the CRTC forces Bell to trafficshape. >> Finally, he admitted that Bell trafficshapes because users are using >> "excessive" bandwidth(but the cap is 60 GB per month). >> All this in less than 3 minutes and without embarrassment. >> I have the impression that if telling me that Obama is the AntiChrist >> would clinch my signing up, he would. >> >> Any info will be appreciated. >> > > Well Bell performs traffic shapping on the DSL backhaul, so they > certainly are traffic shaping. I believe they were doing it to their > own customers long before starting to do it to other customers. > > Bell Sympatico also has a long history of awful service, billing > screwups (like how to make them stop billing you for service you no > longer have), etc. And of course they use MSN/hotmail for their mail > service as far as I can tell. > > Any other DSL provider is likely to provide better service, better tech > support, better conditions, and lower price, and usually the same speed > too. > > I will NEVER have service from Sympatico. > > Many thanks to all who responded. Your feedback is very much appreciated. I was tempted to try out Bell's 7 Mbps service because I was offered a 3-month trial for $2 per month (modem rental) without contract. At the end of which, I could supposedly walk away without obligation. Since Bell trafficshapes its own customers, there is no incentive to sign up with Bell. With the horror stories of its service, I do not look forward to 3 months of potential problems and disruptions. My experience with the Bell sales rep above scared me. I have been with Teksavvy for several years and am on the Premium 5M/800k DSL with 200G/month. I can't recall having a support problem with Teksavvy and I guess I've been spoiled :-) . I guess at the moment, that's as good as it gets unless I switch to Rogers. But with Rogers, I can't get a static IP, subnets and run servers without restrictions. Thanks again. Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 16:35:01 2008 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 11:35:01 -0500 Subject: Looking for Linux related job in GTA Message-ID: <490F2835.8050307@alteeve.com> I've been released from my previous job and am looking for something to fill the void, before my cash runs out. Spent the last 9 years programming database driven web sites in Perl and Postgres. (Web apps?) Any help, pointers or leads would be appreciated. My current Resume can be found here: http://glankonian.com/~lance/resume.html Thanks in advance, Lance F. Squire -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 17:19:09 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:19:09 -0500 Subject: [OT] Home Network, Two Routers In-Reply-To: <490F0E16.70902-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <490F0E16.70902@rogers.com> Message-ID: Stephen, > Now, I want to connect a second router in the living room so I can have > wireless in there. > > How should I set this up? Just connect the Ethernet cable to the second router WAN port. > Should I use DHCP, or just hard code the IPs in the second router? You will need to assign the WAN port an IP. I believe for management purpose only. Then, disable the DHCP feature. At that point, the second router looks more or less like a switch. The IPs will be issued by the main router. Since all IP are from the same DHCP scope, - read, same network - all host in your house will be in position to reach each other > > I want the different computers to all "see" each other. > > Is this possible? Yeap, its possible > Thanks > Stephen > -- William > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 18:28:42 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 13:28:42 -0500 Subject: Looking for Linux related job in GTA In-Reply-To: <490F2835.8050307-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <490F2835.8050307@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <490F42DA.2000805@alteeve.com> Lance F. Squire wrote: > I've been released from my previous job and am looking for something to > fill the void, before my cash runs out. > > Spent the last 9 years programming database driven web sites in Perl and > Postgres. (Web apps?) > > Any help, pointers or leads would be appreciated. > > My current Resume can be found here: > > http://glankonian.com/~lance/resume.html > > Thanks in advance, > > Lance F. Squire As a longtime friend and co-worker, let me vouch for Lance's skill and work ethic. We've both had to move on as our former employer has all but closed. Though biased, I can assure any prospective companies that Lance would be an asset. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 18:34:54 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 13:34:54 -0500 Subject: Looking for Linux related job in GTA In-Reply-To: <490F42DA.2000805-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <490F2835.8050307@alteeve.com> <490F42DA.2000805@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 11/3/08, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lance F. Squire wrote: >> I've been released from my previous job and am looking for something to >> fill the void, before my cash runs out. [snip] I have started putting together a list of Linux / IT centeric job hunt resources on the GTALug website: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Job_Hunting Additions to the above web page would be appreciated, as I too would love a better job situation than the one I have now :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 18:43:29 2008 From: scott-VK/PCEBaDz+N9aS15agKxg at public.gmane.org (Scott C. Ripley) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:43:29 -0600 (CST) Subject: Looking for Linux related job in GTA In-Reply-To: References: <490F2835.8050307@alteeve.com> <490F42DA.2000805@alteeve.com> Message-ID: > Additions to the above web page would be appreciated, as I too would > love a better job situation than the one I have now :-) . additional resources: http://www.sapphireca.com http://peel.vicinityjobs.com http://www.brainhunter.com http://www.procom.ca http://www.ajilon.ca http://www.sisystems.com http://www.quantum.ca http://ca.hotjobs.yahoo.com http://jobs.perl.org http://www.kenexa.com http://www.aquent.ca http://www.spherion.ca http://www.eagleonline.com http://www.gurulink.ca http://www.linkedin.com On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Colin McGregor wrote: > On 11/3/08, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Lance F. Squire wrote: >>> I've been released from my previous job and am looking for something to >>> fill the void, before my cash runs out. > > [snip] > > I have started putting together a list of Linux / IT centeric job hunt > resources on the GTALug website: > > http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Job_Hunting > > Additions to the above web page would be appreciated, as I too would > love a better job situation than the one I have now :-) . > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 18:59:16 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 13:59:16 -0500 Subject: Looking for Linux related job in GTA In-Reply-To: References: <490F2835.8050307@alteeve.com> <490F42DA.2000805@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Scott C. Ripley wrote: > >> Additions to the above web page would be appreciated, as I too would >> love a better job situation than the one I have now :-) . > > additional resources: > > http://www.sapphireca.com > http://peel.vicinityjobs.com > http://www.brainhunter.com > http://www.procom.ca > http://www.ajilon.ca > http://www.sisystems.com > http://www.quantum.ca > http://ca.hotjobs.yahoo.com > http://jobs.perl.org > http://www.kenexa.com > http://www.aquent.ca > http://www.spherion.ca > http://www.eagleonline.com > http://www.gurulink.ca > http://www.linkedin.com I have added those links to the wiki page, in lieu of asking for it to be done. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 20:06:13 2008 From: fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Salman Ahmed) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 12:06:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Looking for Linux related job in GTA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <918811.85771.qm@web51805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Craigslist Toronto has some good job postings every now and then: (Internet engineering jobs) http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/eng/ (Software/QA/DBA/etc. jobs) http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/sof/ Occasionally, their "Computer Gigs" section has some useful posts although the people posting to that section are rarely willing to pay decent $$$: (Computer gigs) http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/cpg/ Best of luck to all of you in your search. Regards, Salman Ahmed -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 20:59:25 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 15:59:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Looking for Linux related job in GTA In-Reply-To: References: <490F2835.8050307@alteeve.com> <490F42DA.2000805@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Colin McGregor wrote: > I have started putting together a list of Linux / IT centeric job hunt > resources on the GTALug website: > > http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Job_Hunting I know some people don't like working with recruiters but I've had very positive results. I work in senior sysadmin positions and I find the recruiters get that and send me for the right jobs. I suppose not every recruiter is so good but I've had good success. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 21:49:33 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 16:49:33 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <20081103141902.GD5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <20081103141902.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <490F71ED.8020606@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Nov 01, 2008 at 05:28:05PM -0400, Meng Cheah wrote: > >> Is anyone using the above and would like to share their experience, both >> good and bad? >> >> What is the performance with Bittorrent? >> >> The Bell salesperson first told me that Bell does not do trafficshaping. >> When pointed out that the issue is before the CRTC, he informed me that >> the CRTC forces Bell to trafficshape. >> Finally, he admitted that Bell trafficshapes because users are using >> "excessive" bandwidth(but the cap is 60 GB per month). >> All this in less than 3 minutes and without embarrassment. >> I have the impression that if telling me that Obama is the AntiChrist >> would clinch my signing up, he would. >> >> Any info will be appreciated. >> > > Well Bell performs traffic shapping on the DSL backhaul, so they > certainly are traffic shaping. I believe they were doing it to their > own customers long before starting to do it to other customers. > > Bell Sympatico also has a long history of awful service, billing > screwups (like how to make them stop billing you for service you no > longer have), etc. And of course they use MSN/hotmail for their mail > service as far as I can tell. > > Any other DSL provider is likely to provide better service, better tech > support, better conditions, and lower price, and usually the same speed > too. > > I will NEVER have service from Sympatico. > > I'm on Rogers, but occasionally have to deal with Sympatico through my work. There's a world of difference between the support lines. On Sympatico, I find them generally useless. On Rogers, the support is usually fairly good. In fact, on the last call I made to them, I even chatted with the tech about Linux (he uses Ubuntu) and he had no problem supporting a customer with a Linux box connected to the cable modem. On Rogers, they treat you as though you have some intelligence, unlike Sympatico. Also, Sympatico insists you click on the Start button etc. If you don't or can't do that, they won't talk to you. Well, the equipment I'm working does not have a Start button! Try to get the call escalated, and they'll hang up on you. BTW, those calls to Sympatico are on behalf of business customers, not home users and even then, their "support" stinks. With one customer, after several attempts to resolve a problem, the customer was about ready to pull her hair out. She then called her sales rep at Bell to complain. After that call, the problem was resolved. One has to wonder what Bell hopes to accomplish, when they have a support line that does little more than antagonize the customer. BTW, I noticed that Rogers was always above 90% of advertised speed, but Bell was by far the worst at (IIRC) 16%. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 21:55:54 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 16:55:54 -0500 Subject: [OT] Home Network, Two Routers In-Reply-To: <490F0E16.70902-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <490F0E16.70902@rogers.com> Message-ID: <490F736A.1010007@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > I have a home network that runs through a 4 port router that is also > wireless. > > But the walls in my condo do not allow for connections from the living > room. I ran wire to the living room to connect my Playstation. > > Now, I want to connect a second router in the living room so I can > have wireless in there. > > How should I set this up? > > Should I use DHCP, or just hard code the IPs in the second router? > > I think the second router has to assign the wireless IPs. > > I want the different computers to all "see" each other. > > Is this possible? Set up the 2nd router in "access point" mode. Some routers, provide instructions on this. However, it's quite simple. Just disable DHCP on the 2nd router, and connect to one of the 4 LAN ports, instead of the WAN port, to connect to the main router. This way, the WiFi is on the same local network as the other router. You can pick up a D-Link WBR-1310 for about $30 at Future Shop that supports this. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 22:00:03 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:00:03 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490F2760.1070905-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <20081103141902.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <490F2760.1070905@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <490F7463.50707@rogers.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > > I guess at the moment, that's as good as it gets unless I switch to > Rogers. > But with Rogers, I can't get a static IP, subnets and run servers > without restrictions. > With Rogers, you get a static host name, which is almost as good as a static IP address. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 22:05:37 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:05:37 -0500 Subject: [OT] Home Network, Two Routers In-Reply-To: References: <490F0E16.70902@rogers.com> Message-ID: <490F75B1.3040002@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > Stephen, > > >> Now, I want to connect a second router in the living room so I can have >> wireless in there. >> >> How should I set this up? >> > Just connect the Ethernet cable to the second router WAN port. > > Ummm... Shouldn't that be to one of the LAN ports? The WAN port is on the wrong side of the box. >> Should I use DHCP, or just hard code the IPs in the second router? >> > > You will need to assign the WAN port an IP. I believe for management > purpose only. Then, disable the DHCP feature. At that point, the > second router looks more or less like a switch. The IPs will be issued > by the main router. Since all IP are from the same DHCP scope, - read, > same network - all host in your house will be in position to reach > each other > > >> I want the different computers to all "see" each other. >> >> Is this possible? >> > Yeap, its possible > >> Thanks >> Stephen >> -- >> > > William > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 22:09:59 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:09:59 -0500 Subject: Looking for Linux related job in GTA In-Reply-To: References: <490F2835.8050307@alteeve.com> <490F42DA.2000805@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <490F76B7.3070006@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Colin McGregor wrote: > >> I have started putting together a list of Linux / IT centeric job hunt >> resources on the GTALug website: >> >> http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Job_Hunting > > I know some people don't like working with recruiters but I've had > very positive results. I work in senior sysadmin positions and I find > the recruiters get that and send me for the right jobs. I suppose not > every recruiter is so good but I've had good success. > > Rob > FWIW, I got my current position through Workopolis. It took my employer all of 30 minutes to respond, after I sent my resume. This was about 2 weeks the last time I left IBM. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 22:16:04 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 17:16:04 -0500 Subject: Looking for Linux related job in GTA In-Reply-To: References: <490F2835.8050307@alteeve.com> <490F42DA.2000805@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 3:59 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Colin McGregor wrote: > >> I have started putting together a list of Linux / IT centeric job hunt >> resources on the GTALug website: >> >> http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Job_Hunting > > I know some people don't like working with recruiters but I've had very > positive results. I work in senior sysadmin positions and I find the > recruiters get that and send me for the right jobs. I suppose not every > recruiter is so good but I've had good success. I have seen the other side of that, so there's definitely some variation :-( - During the 2001 slowdown, I was "slaving over hot recruiters," and got a LOT of futile calls. I had "SAP" on my resume, and that caused beaucoup silly "offerings." In plenty of cases, they really didn't know what they were asking for. - Entertainingly, for a period of ~3 months, about 50% of the calls I got related to ONE LOCATION. I don't know if people are familiar with Intria-HP; this was a joint venture between HP and CIBC, running data centres doing "application outsourcing" out near Mississauga Road (Argentia?) It appears that they burn out their people *really* fast. I interviewed there, and the "bullpen" appeared pretty unbelievable to me in terms of probable stress levels. I wasn't disappointed when they declined to give me an offer. At any rate, apparently just about every recruiter in the 416/905 region was chasing everyone that they imagined could be suitable. - I've seen quite a lot of pretty ludicrously dubious candidates proposed by recruiters. When looking at hiring, we've had to screen pretty heavily, AFTER what *ought* to have been a good screening process. I don't have as high an opinion of recruiters, as a group, as you do ;-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 22:32:04 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:32:04 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <20081103141902.GD5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <20081103141902.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <490F7BE4.5010100@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I will NEVER have service from Sympatico. > > Forgot to mention, Rogers support is located in Toronto. Sympatico's is in India. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 22:38:00 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:38:00 -0500 Subject: Looking for Linux related job in GTA In-Reply-To: References: <490F2835.8050307@alteeve.com> <490F42DA.2000805@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <490F7D48.9080205@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 3:59 PM, Robert Brockway > wrote: > >> On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> >>> I have started putting together a list of Linux / IT centeric job hunt >>> resources on the GTALug website: >>> >>> http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Job_Hunting >>> >> I know some people don't like working with recruiters but I've had very >> positive results. I work in senior sysadmin positions and I find the >> recruiters get that and send me for the right jobs. I suppose not every >> recruiter is so good but I've had good success. >> > > I have seen the other side of that, so there's definitely some variation :-( > > - During the 2001 slowdown, I was "slaving over hot recruiters," and > got a LOT of futile calls. I had "SAP" on my resume, and that caused > beaucoup silly "offerings." In plenty of cases, they really didn't > know what they were asking for. > I've also had lots of experience with low grade recruiters. In one instance, I got a call asking about my experience with a certain software package, that I'd never even heard of. It turns out, that package had the same name as a company I had done some work for and the recruiter had simply done a word search and didn't bother reading what turned up. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 3 22:55:57 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 17:55:57 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490F7BE4.5010100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <20081103141902.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <490F7BE4.5010100@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 5:32 PM, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> I will NEVER have service from Sympatico. >> > Forgot to mention, Rogers support is located in Toronto. Sympatico's is > in India. Bell's shifting of services to India is getting me peeved. It makes it eminently clear that their priority is on Cost Savings over Quality of Service. I haven't yet seen a case where shifting services to the Third World has NOT led to a degradation of quality of service. It's getting to the point where, if I pick up the phone, and hear an Indian accented voice, rather like Pavlov's dogs, I get the sinking feeling of inevitability of a cruddy "service experience." It's not the Indians' fault - the fault clearly lies in Bell's policies. For it to be otherwise *ought* to be possible. If they are saving money, in one place, it ought to be *possible* to spend some of that savings to improve services elsewhere, and we might imagine this enhancing service. But evidently, they have found that the few millions of dollars lost from customers that leave are outweighed by the millions more in increased profitability from those that resign themselves to crummy service. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 4 04:21:43 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 23:21:43 -0500 Subject: USB Wireless card recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20081104030957.GA17424-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20081104030957.GA17424@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 11/3/08, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I'm looking for a USB wireless card, preferably small, that will work > under a kernel that is not *too* cutting edge. Any suggestions? > -- > > yours, > > William A point to be aware of is the way models can ... change. I want looking for an 802.11G USB wireless adapter a number of months back. I did my research and found that the TRENDnet TEW-424UB was well supported under Linux, so I bought one. When I got it home it didn't work. A bit of research later turned up that there have been multiple versions of the TRENDnet TEW-424UB. Version 1 is very well supported under Linux. Version 2 (what I have) internally is TOTALLY different, and while it can be made to work under Linux using ndiswrapper, it is ... ugly. I know there have been post version 2 models, and I don't know the details there... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 4 14:18:12 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:18:12 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <490F7463.50707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <20081103141902.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <490F2760.1070905@pppoe.ca> <490F7463.50707@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20081104141812.GF5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:00:03PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > With Rogers, you get a static host name, which is almost as good as a > static IP address. True, but they still don't permit running servers. Rogers is very fast though, but also more expensive than teksavvy. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jbb-WMDKtnXVRv5BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 4 14:18:27 2008 From: jbb-WMDKtnXVRv5BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jordan Baker) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:18:27 -0500 Subject: This Friday: World Plone Day Toronto - Nov. 7, 2008 Message-ID: <0E215DBA-CA52-4954-BF45-23D693A29324@scryent.com> On November 7th, 2008 Toronto Plone Users will host World Plone Day Toronto at the Center for Social Innovation, 215 Spadina Ave. 4th floor from 1pm - 5pm. The Plone CMS shares the same license as Linux (GPL) and is used by many projects important to the Linux community including the upcoming gnome.org, parts of the Novell site and the FSF. It is written in Python. For more information and to register for this free event visit the World Plone Day Toronto / Toronto Plone Users site: http://torontoplone.ca ---- Plone, an enterprise content management system solution, is one of the largest open source projects on the planet. The Plone community is organizing World Plone Day on November 7th, a world-wide event in over 20 countries and 5 continents to promote and educate the worldwide public about of the benefits of using Plone in education, government, NGOs, and in business. If you're curious about how Plone can help your organization manage a public facing website, or Intranet portal this is the time to meet with Plone experts and end-users. The Toronto event features seminars, presentations and lectures covering the Plone technology and real world case studies. A Q&A session will conclude the event. Refreshments will be served. PRESENTATIONS 1:15 - 1:45 Introduction to Plone (Jordan Baker) This introductory talk is aimed at managers and implementors who want a high-level view of Plone's capabilities as a web content management system, its place in the larger Open Source ecosystem, and maturity as a product. 2:00 - 2:30 Publishing, Collaborating and Sharing Knowledge, a case study (Hugh Ranalli) A look at how one worldwide, very virtual organization uses Plone to work together, enable Web 2.0 user publishing and make the world a better place. 2:30 - 3:00 Networking Break Meet Plone developers, integrators, users and service providers in your local area. 3:00 - 3:30 Getting Started with Plone - an Evaluation Guide (Jordan Baker) In this introductory level talk Jordan will walk you through downloading, installing and starting to configure a Plone-based intranet site. You'll see how you can quickly use the builtin features of Plone, and also how easy it is to make use of simple free add-on products. 3:45 - 4:15 Enterprise Collaboration Successes and Lessons Learned (Gord Gallant) Corporations and governments have a need to provide a user-friendly collaboration service to its employees. Plone provides that service in a cost-effective way that also saves time and effort. Getting staff to use Plone isn't difficlut ... Plone's functionality sells itself, provided the service has been demonstrated properly. 4:30 - 5:00 Rapid Application Development using UML (John R. Southern) Plone includes a variety of useful content types out-of-the-box and there are numerous products available to further expand this functionality. However, it is sometimes necessary to develop your own functionality. In this session, we'll introduce how to build a custom business application using visual tools and a model-driven development approach, with a focus on minimal coding requirements. ----- Jordan Baker, President Scryent open source technology solutions Plone, Zope, Python, Linux & more +1 416 871-3810 www.scryent.com World Plone Day Toronto - November 7, 2008: http://torontoplone.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 4 14:27:45 2008 From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:27:45 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <20081104141812.GF5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <20081103141902.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <490F2760.1070905@pppoe.ca> <490F7463.50707@rogers.com> <20081104141812.GF5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <0AB60EF62F284983A86A46CBC56EBB06@plex20> I'm running a web/email/ftp server on Rogers - in fact this message passed through my CentOS server. I have the Business Service instead of the Residential Service. The Business Service is $10 a month more, but it also has an uncapped download. Jon -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart Sorensen Sent: 4-Nov-08 9:18 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:00:03PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > With Rogers, you get a static host name, which is almost as good as a > static IP address. True, but they still don't permit running servers. Rogers is very fast though, but also more expensive than teksavvy. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 4 15:35:34 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 10:35:34 -0500 Subject: USB Wireless card recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20081104030957.GA17424-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20081104030957.GA17424@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20081104153533.GG5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 10:09:57PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I'm looking for a USB wireless card, preferably small, that will work > under a kernel that is not *too* cutting edge. Any suggestions? Unfortunately, wireless devices tend to change every few months, so anything you can currently buy is either not supported at all, or only supported by a cutting edge kernel. 2.6.2x should have support for a lot of the ralink chipset based devices, so perhaps one of those could be found. A nice list of devices is here: http://ralink.rapla.net/ along with version numbers that it applies to. Some that I see there would be http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014152&cid=NT.541 (but must be version v2000 (RT2500) or v3000 (RT2501USB/RT73), which who knows if it is or not). Not sure that supports WPA or not. http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=003485&cid=NT.541 (but must be version 4). Again not sure if it does WPA given the specs only mention WEP. There are also a number of chips supported by the atheros ath5x driver in recent 2.6 kernels. Not sure which ones that covers, or even if any are usb. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 4 17:27:05 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:27:05 -0500 Subject: Using the buttons on the Logitech Trackman Marble FX In-Reply-To: <20081104032732.GB17424-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20081104032732.GB17424@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20081104172705.GH5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 10:27:32PM -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I've been using a Logitech Trackman Marble FX for a few years now, and > it is quite adequate. > > http://weblog.mrbill.net/archives/2007/10/17/why-cancel-good-products-the-trackman-marble-fx/ > > It has no real moving parts, and I suspect that unless my toddler hides > the ball (again) I'll be able to use it for a long time. It doesn't > have a scroll mechanism though, which is too bad. It does have a wee > button just below the "middle" button that could be used as a scroll > indicator, where you press it and then cursor movement causes a > corresponding scroll. Here's the question - how do I do that? Almost certainly you don't. The wheel sends button events, which is what everything expects. Turning the cursor movement into button events would be hard. > I see several web pages describing the xorg configs that I would need to > do this, but they require that the button have a button number. As far > as I can tell, this button isn't talking to X - when I run xev, pressing > the button does nothing. Is this because I need to activate the button > first in the config, or is it just not functional? Any advice would be > appreciated. Thanks! It may only have a purpose internally in the thingy. It may also be you are using the wrong mouse protocol in which case you won't receive any extra buttons. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 4 17:28:56 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:28:56 -0500 Subject: [OT] Home Network, Two Routers In-Reply-To: <490F0E16.70902-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <490F0E16.70902@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20081104172856.GI5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 09:43:34AM -0500, Stephen wrote: > I have a home network that runs through a 4 port router that is also > wireless. > > But the walls in my condo do not allow for connections from the living > room. I ran wire to the living room to connect my Playstation. > > Now, I want to connect a second router in the living room so I can have > wireless in there. > > How should I set this up? > > Should I use DHCP, or just hard code the IPs in the second router? > > I think the second router has to assign the wireless IPs. > > I want the different computers to all "see" each other. > > Is this possible? Disable routing and dhcp on the second AP, and connect one of its ethernet ports to the ethernet ports on the first one. This way the first one takes care of routing to the internet as well as dhcp, and the second runs only as an AP (no routing or other services). You want AP only mode. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 4 17:30:23 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:30:23 -0500 Subject: [OT] Home Network, Two Routers In-Reply-To: References: <490F0E16.70902@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20081104173023.GJ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 12:19:09PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > Just connect the Ethernet cable to the second router WAN port. That would be bad. Then you can only do routing via NAT, and you won't be able to talk to the wireless devices on the second router. > You will need to assign the WAN port an IP. I believe for management > purpose only. Then, disable the DHCP feature. At that point, the > second router looks more or less like a switch. The IPs will be issued > by the main router. Since all IP are from the same DHCP scope, - read, > same network - all host in your house will be in position to reach > each other Much better to forget the wan port on the second AP even exists. > > I want the different computers to all "see" each other. > > > > Is this possible? > Yeap, its possible But not if you use the WAN port on the second AP. That would hide the computers on the second device from the first one. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 4 17:39:57 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:39:57 -0500 Subject: Using the buttons on the Logitech Trackman Marble FX In-Reply-To: <20081104172705.GH5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081104032732.GB17424@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20081104172705.GH5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20081104173957.GA23824@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 12:27:05PM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> It has no real moving parts, and I suspect that unless my toddler hides >> the ball (again) I'll be able to use it for a long time. It doesn't >> have a scroll mechanism though, which is too bad. It does have a wee >> button just below the "middle" button that could be used as a scroll >> indicator, where you press it and then cursor movement causes a >> corresponding scroll. Here's the question - how do I do that? > >Almost certainly you don't. The wheel sends button events, which is >what everything expects. Turning the cursor movement into button events >would be hard. It may be, but the work is done - the Option is "EmulateWheel", which requires these other Options - EmulateWheelButton, EmulateWheelInertia and EmulateWheelTimeout. >> I see several web pages describing the xorg configs that I would need to >> do this, but they require that the button have a button number. As far >> as I can tell, this button isn't talking to X - when I run xev, pressing >> the button does nothing. Is this because I need to activate the button >> first in the config, or is it just not functional? Any advice would be >> appreciated. Thanks! > >It may only have a purpose internally in the thingy. It may also be you >are using the wrong mouse protocol in which case you won't receive any >extra buttons. This is a good tip - I will try other Protocols and see if my button suddenly wakes up. Thanks! I'll report my progress as I make it. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 4 12:27:44 2008 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:27:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: ASUS Service No=276140 References: <18514798.1225498414555.JavaMail.e_service@eServiceACI02> Message-ID: Colin McGregor writes: > Since I can not trust the material in the ASUS manuals, what > motherboards do you sell, with the above features, that do work under > Linux? Further, what is the proper way to dispose of a motherboard > that does not perform to specification? google for: ballmer foxconn acpi specification I have similar problems with an asus laptop that misbehaves when operated with linux from the acpi p.o.v., f.ex. turning off all throttling and speed settings in the linux kernel fixes most problems mut the laptop can be used as a tea cooker (full cpu clock when idle etc). It is not an accident. A man has made some experiments and has enabled the acpi tables for windows for linux (the acpi code detects the os and supplies a different table for linux ! - this is a standards violation in itself). He came to the conclusion that the manufacturer deliberatley used an incomplete and erroneous acpi table for the linux response version and exchanged emails similar to yours with the makers (foxconn in that case). Imnsho this REQUIRES that the issue be discussed as widely as possible, especially in the open source community. I am not going as far as to say "do not buy that brand", but in view of the trouble I have had and still have, I would have heeded that advice if it would have been available at the time when I bought my hardware. Just google and follow the links (the first 5 or so are already relevant). Asus seems to also have a similar problem. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 01:46:56 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 20:46:56 -0500 Subject: ASUS Service No=276140 In-Reply-To: References: <18514798.1225498414555.JavaMail.e_service@eServiceACI02> Message-ID: On 11/4/08, Peter wrote: > Colin McGregor writes: >> Since I can not trust the material in the ASUS manuals, what >> motherboards do you sell, with the above features, that do work under >> Linux? Further, what is the proper way to dispose of a motherboard >> that does not perform to specification? > > google for: ballmer foxconn acpi specification Well, ACPI was part of the issue I faced. The two error messages I got when attempting to boot were : "BIOS bug, the MCFG area at e0000000 is not E-820-reserved" and "MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to IO-APIC". This after getting rid of a BIOS error regarding the MAC address. With the MAC address, the machine would boot with a broadcast MAC address be default. After the third return to ASUS, they sent me an MS-DOS utility that would let me change the MAC address, and some interesting info. turned up, starting with how what ever MAC address was put into the EEROM on the motherboard would reverse the bytes and reverse some of the nibbles in those bytes, so an address like 01:23:45:67:89:ab would end up looking something like ab:89:76:54:23:01 . Stuff that would cause real grief with the Knoppmyth Linux I was using. I ended up changing the MAC address to 00:44:44:44:44:00 so everything could be reversed and still turn out. Four trips to ASUS and now they say that since it will boot Windows Vista, they are not going to do anything further to fix the motherboard.... Which lands me back at square one, having spent over $100 and a lot of hours on ASUS garbage. I am very annoyed at the thought of buying another motherboard. I am not going to buy another CPU, case, etc.. So, I am now in the market for a replacement motherboard. I have called ASUS and they suggested the M3N78 EMH HDMI motherboard which I gather from a tour of the College & Spadina area clone dealers is no longer available. So, here is what I need: - Support for Linux network booting. - No Linux hostile BIOS bugs - MicroATX form factor - Support for an AMD Socket AM2 Athlon 3200+ CPU - Support for DDR2 PC2 - 5300 memory - Onboard nVidia graphics, GeForce 5200 or better - 1 (or more) PCIExpress x16 expansion slot. - Something available locally, shipping charges would at this point be an insult on top on an injury... Suggestions? Normally I would be just looking at ASUS board, but after this experience I think that is a brand I would like to avoid... > I have similar problems with an asus laptop that misbehaves when operated > with > linux from the acpi p.o.v., f.ex. turning off all throttling and speed > settings > in the linux kernel fixes most problems mut the laptop can be used as a tea > cooker (full cpu clock when idle etc). It is not an accident. A man has made > some experiments and has enabled the acpi tables for windows for linux (the > acpi > code detects the os and supplies a different table for linux ! - this is a > standards violation in itself). He came to the conclusion that the > manufacturer > deliberatley used an incomplete and erroneous acpi table for the linux > response > version and exchanged emails similar to yours with the makers (foxconn in > that > case). Imnsho this REQUIRES that the issue be discussed as widely as > possible, > especially in the open source community. I am not going as far as to say "do > not > buy that brand", but in view of the trouble I have had and still have, I > would > have heeded that advice if it would have been available at the time when I > bought my hardware. > > Just google and follow the links (the first 5 or so are already relevant). > Asus > seems to also have a similar problem. > > Peter > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 02:21:58 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:21:58 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <20081104141812.GF5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <20081103141902.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <490F2760.1070905@pppoe.ca> <490F7463.50707@rogers.com> <20081104141812.GF5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <49110346.60303@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:00:03PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > >> With Rogers, you get a static host name, which is almost as good as a >> static IP address. >> > > True, but they still don't permit running servers > Rogers is very fast though, but also more expensive than teksavvy. > > FWIW, I was talking to a couple of Bell techs today. For their home service, they've got Telus, since they don't want to use Sympatico. The service must be pretty bad, if employees won't use it. IIRC, in that show, Telus came in second, after Rogers and Sympatico was dead last. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 02:25:58 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:25:58 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <0AB60EF62F284983A86A46CBC56EBB06@plex20> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <20081103141902.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <490F2760.1070905@pppoe.ca> <490F7463.50707@rogers.com> <20081104141812.GF5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <0AB60EF62F284983A86A46CBC56EBB06@plex20> Message-ID: <49110436.6090803@rogers.com> Jon Thiele wrote: > I'm running a web/email/ftp server on Rogers - in fact this message passed > through my CentOS server. I have the Business Service instead of the > Residential Service. The Business Service is $10 a month more, but it also > has an uncapped download. > > Years ago, I read on the Rogers site, that they generally don't mind "servers", provided they don't generate a lot of traffic. So, if you were to have an FTP server, for sharing files with a few friends, they wouldn't bother you, but they needed those prohibitions to stop those who abuse the service. I have SSH & VPN connection to my network, but no open servers. Also, it's hard to define a "server" in an way that satisfies both technical use and Rogers intent. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 02:45:55 2008 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 21:45:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <49110436.6090803-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <20081103141902.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <490F2760.1070905@pppoe.ca> <490F7463.50707@rogers.com> <20081104141812.GF5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <0AB60EF62F284983A86A46CBC56EBB06@plex20> <49110436.6090803@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, James Knott wrote: > Jon Thiele wrote: >> I'm running a web/email/ftp server on Rogers - in fact this message passed >> through my CentOS server. I have the Business Service instead of the >> Residential Service. The Business Service is $10 a month more, but it also >> has an uncapped download. >> >> > > Years ago, I read on the Rogers site, that they generally don't mind > "servers", provided they don't generate a lot of traffic. So, if you > were to have an FTP server, for sharing files with a few friends, they > wouldn't bother you, but they needed those prohibitions to stop those > who abuse the service. I have SSH & VPN connection to my network, but > no open servers. Also, it's hard to define a "server" in an way that > satisfies both technical use and Rogers intent. About 8 years ago, I was on Rogers, and I had an FTP server with virtually no traffic, but I received a warning telling me to take it down. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 03:06:58 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 22:06:58 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <20081103141902.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <490F2760.1070905@pppoe.ca> <490F7463.50707@rogers.com> <20081104141812.GF5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <0AB60EF62F284983A86A46CBC56EBB06@plex20> <49110436.6090803@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49110DD2.8000905@rogers.com> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, James Knott wrote: > >> Jon Thiele wrote: >>> I'm running a web/email/ftp server on Rogers - in fact this message >>> passed >>> through my CentOS server. I have the Business Service instead of the >>> Residential Service. The Business Service is $10 a month more, but >>> it also >>> has an uncapped download. >>> >>> >> >> Years ago, I read on the Rogers site, that they generally don't mind >> "servers", provided they don't generate a lot of traffic. So, if you >> were to have an FTP server, for sharing files with a few friends, they >> wouldn't bother you, but they needed those prohibitions to stop those >> who abuse the service. I have SSH & VPN connection to my network, but >> no open servers. Also, it's hard to define a "server" in an way that >> satisfies both technical use and Rogers intent. > > About 8 years ago, I was on Rogers, and I had an FTP server > with virtually no traffic, but I received a warning telling me > to take it down. > I think things changed after @home died. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 03:25:05 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 22:25:05 -0500 Subject: OT: Bell Internet Performance Service - Up to 7 Mbps In-Reply-To: <49110DD2.8000905-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <490CC9E5.5010609@pppoe.ca> <20081103141902.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <490F2760.1070905@pppoe.ca> <490F7463.50707@rogers.com> <20081104141812.GF5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <0AB60EF62F284983A86A46CBC56EBB06@plex20> <49110436.6090803@rogers.com> <49110DD2.8000905@rogers.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420811041925s2aa846ak18790543b813cc7c@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 10:06 PM, James Knott wrote: >>> Years ago, I read on the Rogers site, that they generally don't mind >>> "servers", provided they don't generate a lot of traffic. So, if you >>> were to have an FTP server, for sharing files with a few friends, they >>> wouldn't bother you, but they needed those prohibitions to stop those >>> who abuse the service. I have SSH & VPN connection to my network, but >>> no open servers. Also, it's hard to define a "server" in an way that >>> satisfies both technical use and Rogers intent. >> >> About 8 years ago, I was on Rogers, and I had an FTP server >> with virtually no traffic, but I received a warning telling me >> to take it down. >> > I think things changed after @home died. Indeed. I'm currently running public-facing HTTP, HTTPS, and SSH servers on my Roger's connection and I've had no trouble. I use the HTTPS connection relatively frequently to do subversion check-ins and -outs. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 17:26:53 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 12:26:53 -0500 Subject: A Toronto Open Street Map event... Message-ID: I would like to do some more Open Street Map mapping parties in the Greater Toronto Area. Question is, when and where? To start, I gather that the folks at Cloud Made are willing to pick up the tab for a meetup.com event. The meetup.com people do some of the logistics re: e-mail reminders and the like. On the other hand I have doubts about do they offer good value for the $... In the mean time we need to think about the when and where type questions. The where I think should be somewhere outside the Toronto downtown. While there is clear room for improvement in the downtown map, the areas away from downtown are ... pretty sad. Still that leaves us with Scarborough, North York or Etobicoke. Anyone have a preference? With the following question, we will want a free location with WiFi, any ideas? Next question is a date, I would favour a Saturday, enough light to see by and do things (as opposed to meeting say in the evening...). What works for those here who would be inclined to attend a mapping party? Colin McGregor P.S. This past weekend I went after Queen St. E., aka: the Beach so spots like Lee Av. will be showing up. I will hope to get back there next weekend and make sure I have sorted out the Fallingbrooks ... In one small area at the east end of Queen St. E. you have "Fallingbrook Rd.", "Fallingbrook Cres.", and "Fallingbrook Woods" ... Not 100% obvious where some of the above start / end. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 18:49:54 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 13:49:54 -0500 Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? Message-ID: I have been running into a problem lately which I thought I'd "toss over the wall" to see if others have experienced similar... I have been having *terrible* troubles trying to copy files of any material size (e.g. - such as videos and such) onto USB-based devices, notably USB memory sticks and onto SD cards mounted via USB. I copy files over, and there are two tendancies: 1. Frequently, I run out of disk space on the device, even though there's certainly plenty of room left. 2. After completing copying, I unmount the filesystem (which takes a while, due to flushing out updates), and when I remount, the filesystem tends to be pretty corrupt, with wacky directory entries containing control characters. I'm not at all sure that this is a USB-relevant issue; what I am getting mighty suspicious of is that perhaps I'm blowing up the VFAT filesystem (fyi, I keep having to rebuild the filesystems when I attempt a retry). All seems to be OK if I keep to moderate file sizes (e.g. - a few MB in size); everything seems to go bad when file size grows to 100's of megabytes. That's not formal "troubleshooting info;" that's more like an anecdote. What seems rather interesting is that I observe this in a cross-platform fashion; I see this phenomenon both on Linux and on MacOS. A quick google finds the following (reported on Darwin, I'm not sure if this is with "Hackintosh" or with "just Darwin"; don't think that's too relevant...) http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?s=fd9e8e56f8887e542acf2e01e7ea6917&showtopic=57523&st=0&p=410781&#entry410781 It is suggested that the problem might be insufficient power to the USB devices; that seems implausible when I'm mounting them on a desktop box where there should surely be plenty of power. I have been seeing this phenomenon for a while, on a variety of hardware. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 19:04:55 2008 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:04:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: keyboard question Message-ID: Hi All, Looks like when I installed xubuntu I selected the wrong keyboard. What would normally be a quotation mark produces unusual characters. Following what I read at http://linux.about.com/od/xubuntu_doc/a/xubudg24t01.htm. I am trying to change this by editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf Under the keyboard section I have: Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Keyboard" Driver "kbd" Option "XkbRules" "xorg" Option "XkbModel" "pc105" Option "XkbLayout" "us" Option "XkbVariant" "intl" Option "XkbOptions" "lv3:ralt_switch" EndSection However, I am not sure what to change? Just wondering if anyone has any suggestion. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 19:11:15 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:11:15 -0500 Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4911EFD3.6000205@alteeve.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > I have been running into a problem lately which I thought I'd "toss > over the wall" to see if others have experienced similar... > > I have been having *terrible* troubles trying to copy files of any > material size (e.g. - such as videos and such) onto USB-based devices, > notably USB memory sticks and onto SD cards mounted via USB. > > I copy files over, and there are two tendancies: > > 1. Frequently, I run out of disk space on the device, even though > there's certainly plenty of room left. > > 2. After completing copying, I unmount the filesystem (which takes a > while, due to flushing out updates), and when I remount, the > filesystem tends to be pretty corrupt, with wacky directory entries > containing control characters. > > I'm not at all sure that this is a USB-relevant issue; what I am > getting mighty suspicious of is that perhaps I'm blowing up the VFAT > filesystem (fyi, I keep having to rebuild the filesystems when I > attempt a retry). > > All seems to be OK if I keep to moderate file sizes (e.g. - a few MB > in size); everything seems to go bad when file size grows to 100's of > megabytes. That's not formal "troubleshooting info;" that's more like > an anecdote. > > What seems rather interesting is that I observe this in a > cross-platform fashion; I see this phenomenon both on Linux and on > MacOS. > > A quick google finds the following (reported on Darwin, I'm not sure > if this is with "Hackintosh" or with "just Darwin"; don't think that's > too relevant...) > http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?s=fd9e8e56f8887e542acf2e01e7ea6917&showtopic=57523&st=0&p=410781&#entry410781 > > It is suggested that the problem might be insufficient power to the > USB devices; that seems implausible when I'm mounting them on a > desktop box where there should surely be plenty of power. > > I have been seeing this phenomenon for a while, on a variety of hardware. I've seen issues like this on cheaper USB-IDE chips where small copies are fine but big copies die. I think it's a power issue with those chips... Though you say you're having problems across different bits of hardware... Personally, I always stick to just a few brands I trust (Vantec for HDD carriers and Kingston for keychains) and I've had great luck in Linux with multiple host controllers since then. Cheaper hardware though has caused me no end of trouble. Madi. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 19:27:16 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:27:16 -0500 Subject: ASUS Service No=276140 In-Reply-To: References: <18514798.1225498414555.JavaMail.e_service@eServiceACI02> Message-ID: <20081105192716.GL5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 08:46:56PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Well, ACPI was part of the issue I faced. The two error messages I got > when attempting to boot were : "BIOS bug, the MCFG area at e0000000 > is not E-820-reserved" and "MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to > IO-APIC". This after getting rid of a BIOS error regarding the MAC > address. The MCFG area thing seems to happen on every system I have ever booted linux on (only recent kernels check that). > With the MAC address, the machine would boot with a broadcast MAC > address be default. After the third return to ASUS, they sent me an > MS-DOS utility that would let me change the MAC address, and some > interesting info. turned up, starting with how what ever MAC address > was put into the EEROM on the motherboard would reverse the bytes and > reverse some of the nibbles in those bytes, so an address like > 01:23:45:67:89:ab would end up looking something like > ab:89:76:54:23:01 . Stuff that would cause real grief with the > Knoppmyth Linux I was using. I ended up changing the MAC address to > 00:44:44:44:44:00 so everything could be reversed and still turn out. The stupid nvidia reverse mac thing, was just dumb on nvidia's part when they originally did it, and in trying to fix it they have now caused other bugs in existing drivers that don't know it has been fixed, as well as some bioses that seem to not have realized it is supposed to be fixed. So that issue is to a large extent nvidia ethernet specific. But if you changed the MAC address on the board, then what problem is left to fix now? According to this discussion from 2 years ago the reverse mac address after PXE boot was a bug which was fixed in newer PXE code and any BIOS vendor should update to the new PXE code to fix it. http://groups.google.ca/group/fa.linux.kernel/browse_thread/thread/2a34f3ce3591e34e?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&pli=1 Apparently if your PXE version is less than 243.0537, neither linux nor windows will have the correct mac address after a PXE boot on an nvidia chipset board. I see the latest bios for the M2N-MX SE is 0501 which came out in late april this year. Which bios is on your board? > Four trips to ASUS and now they say that since it will boot Windows > Vista, they are not going to do anything further to fix the > motherboard.... Which lands me back at square one, having spent over > $100 and a lot of hours on ASUS garbage. Weill it netboot windows? Didn't they claim it supported netbooting after all? > I am very annoyed at the thought of buying another motherboard. I am > not going to buy another CPU, case, etc.. So, I am now in the market > for a replacement motherboard. I have called ASUS and they suggested > the M3N78 EMH HDMI motherboard which I gather from a tour of the > College & Spadina area clone dealers is no longer available. Canada Computers claims to have 5 M3N78-VM boards at their downtown store. Seems to be quite available in fact. Will it netboot? Who knows. Will it work with the 2.6.18 kernel that knoppmyth appears to be using? Probably not. A kernel that isn't 3 years old would be much more likely to work. In fact a quick check says it requires 2.6.26 or higher to work with that chipset. > So, here is what I need: > > - Support for Linux network booting. Could be hard to ensure, given how few people netboot, it may be rarely tested. > - No Linux hostile BIOS bugs Not sure there exists a bug free bios. :) > - MicroATX form factor > - Support for an AMD Socket AM2 Athlon 3200+ CPU > - Support for DDR2 PC2 - 5300 memory Those seem reasonable. > - Onboard nVidia graphics, GeForce 5200 or better That requires the nvidia chipset, which brings back the reverse mac address stupidity issue in most cases (at least I suspect so). > - 1 (or more) PCIExpress x16 expansion slot. > - Something available locally, shipping charges would at this point be > an insult on top on an injury... > > Suggestions? Normally I would be just looking at ASUS board, but after > this experience I think that is a brand I would like to avoid... No idea. Asus is the only brand I will buy. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 19:28:32 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:28:32 -0500 Subject: keyboard question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081105192832.GM5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 02:04:55PM -0500, Alex Maynard wrote: > > Hi All, > > Looks like when I installed xubuntu I selected the wrong keyboard. > What would normally be a quotation mark produces unusual characters. > Following what I read at > http://linux.about.com/od/xubuntu_doc/a/xubudg24t01.htm. > I am trying to change this by editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf > > Under the keyboard section I have: > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Generic Keyboard" > Driver "kbd" > Option "XkbRules" "xorg" > Option "XkbModel" "pc105" > Option "XkbLayout" "us" > Option "XkbVariant" "intl" > Option "XkbOptions" "lv3:ralt_switch" > EndSection > > However, I am not sure what to change? Just wondering if anyone has any > suggestion. Well us layout is pc104, not pc105. You don't need a variant or options at all, so this should work: Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Keyboard" Driver "kbd" Option "XkbRules" "xorg" Option "XkbModel" "pc104" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 19:31:20 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:31:20 -0500 Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081105193120.GN5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 01:49:54PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > I have been running into a problem lately which I thought I'd "toss > over the wall" to see if others have experienced similar... > > I have been having *terrible* troubles trying to copy files of any > material size (e.g. - such as videos and such) onto USB-based devices, > notably USB memory sticks and onto SD cards mounted via USB. > > I copy files over, and there are two tendancies: > > 1. Frequently, I run out of disk space on the device, even though > there's certainly plenty of room left. > > 2. After completing copying, I unmount the filesystem (which takes a > while, due to flushing out updates), and when I remount, the > filesystem tends to be pretty corrupt, with wacky directory entries > containing control characters. > > I'm not at all sure that this is a USB-relevant issue; what I am > getting mighty suspicious of is that perhaps I'm blowing up the VFAT > filesystem (fyi, I keep having to rebuild the filesystems when I > attempt a retry). > > All seems to be OK if I keep to moderate file sizes (e.g. - a few MB > in size); everything seems to go bad when file size grows to 100's of > megabytes. That's not formal "troubleshooting info;" that's more like > an anecdote. > > What seems rather interesting is that I observe this in a > cross-platform fashion; I see this phenomenon both on Linux and on > MacOS. > > A quick google finds the following (reported on Darwin, I'm not sure > if this is with "Hackintosh" or with "just Darwin"; don't think that's > too relevant...) > http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?s=fd9e8e56f8887e542acf2e01e7ea6917&showtopic=57523&st=0&p=410781&#entry410781 > > It is suggested that the problem might be insufficient power to the > USB devices; that seems implausible when I'm mounting them on a > desktop box where there should surely be plenty of power. > > I have been seeing this phenomenon for a while, on a variety of hardware. Remember that FAT16 filesystems (used on cards 2GB and under normally) has a limited number of directory entries in the root dir. Long file names (as VFAT does) uses multiple entries per file. This means you can run out if directory entries very quickly, if you place them all in the root. If you create a subdir, you can put all that you want in that subdir, since it isn't limited in size and hence the number of entries. So that's a filesystem design limitation. FAT32 does not have this limitation, but SD card spec only says to use FAT32 for SDHC cards (which is normally 4GB+ cards). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 19:43:03 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:43:03 -0500 Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? In-Reply-To: <20081105193120.GN5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081105193120.GN5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> I have been having *terrible* troubles trying to copy files of any >> material size (e.g. - such as videos and such) onto USB-based devices, >> notably USB memory sticks and onto SD cards mounted via USB. > Remember that FAT16 filesystems (used on cards 2GB and under normally) > has a limited number of directory entries in the root dir. Long file > names (as VFAT does) uses multiple entries per file. This means you can > run out if directory entries very quickly, if you place them all in the > root. If you create a subdir, you can put all that you want in that > subdir, since it isn't limited in size and hence the number of entries. A clarification here: I did recall there being some limitation surrounding the root directory, and have created files in subdirectories, which didn't seem to affect the corruption phenomenon either positively or negatively. The case I ran into this week was one where I was trying to copy a sum total of 5 files to the SD card; in that case, I wouldn't expect the directory entry issue to be an issue :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 19:46:55 2008 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:46:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: keyboard question In-Reply-To: <20081105192832.GM5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081105192832.GM5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Nov 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 02:04:55PM -0500, Alex Maynard wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> Looks like when I installed xubuntu I selected the wrong keyboard. >> What would normally be a quotation mark produces unusual characters. >> Following what I read at >> http://linux.about.com/od/xubuntu_doc/a/xubudg24t01.htm. >> I am trying to change this by editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf >> >> Under the keyboard section I have: >> >> Section "InputDevice" >> Identifier "Generic Keyboard" >> Driver "kbd" >> Option "XkbRules" "xorg" >> Option "XkbModel" "pc105" >> Option "XkbLayout" "us" >> Option "XkbVariant" "intl" >> Option "XkbOptions" "lv3:ralt_switch" >> EndSection >> >> However, I am not sure what to change? Just wondering if anyone has any >> suggestion. > > Well us layout is pc104, not pc105. You don't need a variant or options > at all, so this should work: > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Generic Keyboard" > Driver "kbd" > Option "XkbRules" "xorg" > Option "XkbModel" "pc104" > Option "XkbLayout" "us" > EndSection That did the job. Thanks so much! Alex > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 20:57:04 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:57:04 -0500 Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081105205704.GA32194@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 01:49:54PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: >I have been running into a problem lately which I thought I'd "toss >over the wall" to see if others have experienced similar... > >I have been having *terrible* troubles trying to copy files of any >material size (e.g. - such as videos and such) onto USB-based devices, >notably USB memory sticks and onto SD cards mounted via USB. > >I copy files over, and there are two tendancies: > >1. Frequently, I run out of disk space on the device, even though >there's certainly plenty of room left. > >2. After completing copying, I unmount the filesystem (which takes a >while, due to flushing out updates), and when I remount, the >filesystem tends to be pretty corrupt, with wacky directory entries >containing control characters. I haven't seen #2, but I do see #1 a bit - I get this on both Linux and Windows when dealing with large files and SD cards - so far no trouble on USB, but that may just be luck. Big files tend to move on my SD cards, and wee ones on the sticks. I have found no certain cause, but the "cheap" accusation certainly fits - I have several very low cost SDHC cards for my Eee, and this is where I have see trouble - that and pulling things off onto Windows at work. So, with an n of two and a data quality of "anecdote" we can plot a line ;-) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 5 23:56:13 2008 From: gyre-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Eric Battersby) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:56:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? In-Reply-To: <20081105205704.GA32194-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20081105205704.GA32194@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20081105184128.H13046@vex.net> On Wed, 5 Nov 2008, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 01:49:54PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: >> I have been running into a problem lately which I thought I'd "toss >> over the wall" to see if others have experienced similar... >> >> I have been having *terrible* troubles trying to copy files of any >> material size (e.g. - such as videos and such) onto USB-based devices, >> notably USB memory sticks and onto SD cards mounted via USB. >> >> I copy files over, and there are two tendancies: >> >> 1. Frequently, I run out of disk space on the device, even though >> there's certainly plenty of room left. >> >> 2. After completing copying, I unmount the filesystem (which takes a >> while, due to flushing out updates), and when I remount, the >> filesystem tends to be pretty corrupt, with wacky directory entries >> containing control characters. > > I haven't seen #2, but I do see #1 a bit - I get this on both Linux and > Windows when dealing with large files and SD cards - so far no trouble > on USB, but that may just be luck. Big files tend to move on my SD > cards, and wee ones on the sticks. I have found no certain cause, but > the "cheap" accusation certainly fits - I have several very low cost > SDHC cards for my Eee, and this is where I have see trouble - that and > pulling things off onto Windows at work. Christopher, what brands of SD cards and memory sticks are you using? Have you had reliable success with any USB hardware, including hard drives? I have used Lexar SD cards (256MB to 2GB) and also a memory stick built into my 2GB MPIO MP3 player, without any problems for large files. Have you tried: - alternate cables? - alternate OSes (eg: from a Linux live CD)? - a USB hub with it's own power supply? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 04:37:56 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 23:37:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? In-Reply-To: <20081105193120.GN5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081105193120.GN5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | | On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 01:49:54PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: | > 1. Frequently, I run out of disk space on the device, even though | > there's certainly plenty of room left. | Remember that FAT16 filesystems (used on cards 2GB and under normally) | has a limited number of directory entries in the root dir. | So that's a filesystem design limitation. FAT16 also supports a fixed number of clusters (64k == 2^16). So on a 2GB card (somewhat less than 2 ^ 31 bytes), each cluster would be 2 ^ 14 bytes == 32KiB. So there can be a terrible waste of space (up to 32k per file; often approached with small files). I doubt that this is your problem, but I thought I'd mention it. | FAT32 does not have this limitation, but SD card spec only says to use | FAT32 for SDHC cards (which is normally 4GB+ cards). Why the heck does the spec talk about the file system level? None of its business I'd say. Chris: have you tried EXT2 (I think that EXT3's journalling is a Bad Thing for flash)? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 08:42:27 2008 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 03:42:27 -0500 Subject: Google Earth crashing X.org Message-ID: <20081106034227.hcj4y7mluskksgs8@mail.math.yorku.ca> Running Ubuntu 7.10, X.org 1.3.0. This used to happen occasionally, but now for some reason it happens so often that Google Earth has become virtually unusable. It works for a little while, and then if I do something innocuous-seeming (like, say, a mouse click that causes a window to encroach on the space taken up by Google Earth's window), X totally spazzes out. It keeps trying, and failing, to restart the X server, and I can't escape out of it with ctrl-alt-F2 or ctrl-alt-backspace -- I have to power-cycle the machine. So two questions: (1) Anyone know how to fix this, and probably more important (2) How do I tell X.org to GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY and let me have a text login prompt? Thanks for any help, Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 13:24:26 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:24:26 -0500 Subject: Google Earth crashing X.org In-Reply-To: <20081106034227.hcj4y7mluskksgs8-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <20081106034227.hcj4y7mluskksgs8@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <20081106132426.GA7690@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 03:42:27AM -0500, Mike Oliver wrote: > So two questions: (1) Anyone know how to fix this, and > probably more important (2) How do I tell X.org to > GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY and let me have a text > login prompt? I cannot answer (1), though I suspect that you will be advised to update your machine - I don't really know if that will help, so I leave it for others. As for (2), this behaviour is caused by something (gdm, kdm, perhaps others) trying to give you a graphical login, which barfs because it can't, logs out, and this starts over. So, there is a two-step process: 1 - figure out which mechanism you use for graphical logins (If you use Gnome, XFCE - gdm; if KDE - kdm) 2 - run this command: sudo update-rc.d -f (gdm|kdm) remove That should give you text logins, and no crash-looping. Of course, now you have to start your graphical display manually, probably using the command "startx". If this is new/unfamiliar to you, ask for more info before you start - it sucks to be stuck in the console if you don't know how to get on the web or email to ask for help. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 15:58:25 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:58:25 -0500 Subject: ASUS Service No=276140 In-Reply-To: <20081105192716.GL5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <18514798.1225498414555.JavaMail.e_service@eServiceACI02> <20081105192716.GL5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 11/5/08, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 08:46:56PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Well, ACPI was part of the issue I faced. The two error messages I got >> when attempting to boot were : "BIOS bug, the MCFG area at e0000000 >> is not E-820-reserved" and "MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to >> IO-APIC". This after getting rid of a BIOS error regarding the MAC >> address. > > The MCFG area thing seems to happen on every system I have ever booted > linux on (only recent kernels check that). > >> With the MAC address, the machine would boot with a broadcast MAC >> address be default. After the third return to ASUS, they sent me an >> MS-DOS utility that would let me change the MAC address, and some >> interesting info. turned up, starting with how what ever MAC address >> was put into the EEROM on the motherboard would reverse the bytes and >> reverse some of the nibbles in those bytes, so an address like >> 01:23:45:67:89:ab would end up looking something like >> ab:89:76:54:23:01 . Stuff that would cause real grief with the >> Knoppmyth Linux I was using. I ended up changing the MAC address to >> 00:44:44:44:44:00 so everything could be reversed and still turn out. > > The stupid nvidia reverse mac thing, was just dumb on nvidia's part when > they originally did it, and in trying to fix it they have now caused > other bugs in existing drivers that don't know it has been fixed, as > well as some bioses that seem to not have realized it is supposed to be > fixed. So that issue is to a large extent nvidia ethernet specific. > > But if you changed the MAC address on the board, then what problem is > left to fix now? Well, getting the board to boot under KnoppMyth is the issue... > According to this discussion from 2 years ago the reverse mac address > after PXE boot was a bug which was fixed in newer PXE code and any BIOS > vendor should update to the new PXE code to fix it. > http://groups.google.ca/group/fa.linux.kernel/browse_thread/thread/2a34f3ce3591e34e?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&pli=1 > > Apparently if your PXE version is less than 243.0537, neither linux nor > windows will have the correct mac address after a PXE boot on an nvidia > chipset board. > > I see the latest bios for the M2N-MX SE is 0501 which came out in late > april this year. Which bios is on your board? 501, it does not fix the PXE issues. >> Four trips to ASUS and now they say that since it will boot Windows >> Vista, they are not going to do anything further to fix the >> motherboard.... Which lands me back at square one, having spent over >> $100 and a lot of hours on ASUS garbage. > > Weill it netboot windows? Didn't they claim it supported netbooting > after all? They seem to be saying it will not netboot period. But the fact that the board can run Windows, a supported OS seems to mean in their minds the board is okay... >> I am very annoyed at the thought of buying another motherboard. I am >> not going to buy another CPU, case, etc.. So, I am now in the market >> for a replacement motherboard. I have called ASUS and they suggested >> the M3N78 EMH HDMI motherboard which I gather from a tour of the >> College & Spadina area clone dealers is no longer available. > > Canada Computers claims to have 5 M3N78-VM boards at their downtown > store. Seems to be quite available in fact. Will it netboot? Who > knows. Will it work with the 2.6.18 kernel that knoppmyth appears to be > using? Probably not. A kernel that isn't 3 years old would be much > more likely to work. In fact a quick check says it requires 2.6.26 or > higher to work with that chipset. > >> So, here is what I need: >> >> - Support for Linux network booting. > > Could be hard to ensure, given how few people netboot, it may be rarely > tested. > >> - No Linux hostile BIOS bugs > > Not sure there exists a bug free bios. :) > >> - MicroATX form factor >> - Support for an AMD Socket AM2 Athlon 3200+ CPU >> - Support for DDR2 PC2 - 5300 memory > > Those seem reasonable. > >> - Onboard nVidia graphics, GeForce 5200 or better > > That requires the nvidia chipset, which brings back the reverse mac > address stupidity issue in most cases (at least I suspect so). > >> - 1 (or more) PCIExpress x16 expansion slot. >> - Something available locally, shipping charges would at this point be >> an insult on top on an injury... >> >> Suggestions? Normally I would be just looking at ASUS board, but after >> this experience I think that is a brand I would like to avoid... > > No idea. Asus is the only brand I will buy. Well, for years ASUS has been the only motherboard brand I would buy, some of the nice things I have had to say about an ASUS motherboard can be seen here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8219 Right now however I am feeling burnt on the M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard, and while I would like to think that it is one bad board, I am open to other options at this point... > -- > Len Sorensen Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 16:00:02 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:00:02 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: [...] > In order to get around this I'm thinking to excerise the "at your > option any later version" bit and release under the LGPL 2.1 then a v3 > version immediately following (as part of the build process). In following up with licensing-at-gnu.org, I received this reply: The "later version" option doesn't mean that the software is licensed under both LGPLv2.1 and LGPLv3. It means that the software is licensed under LGPLv2.1 *or* LGPLv3 (with an exclusive "or"), and it is the option of the distributor to choose which one. I've responded by saying that I'm still thinking on the matter and that I'd be in touch in a few days. I can't quite put my finger on it, but this just strikes me as wrong. (I can release under the LGPLv2.1, but if I want an LGPLv3 version out there someone else has to do it?) Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on this. Take care, - Scott. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 16:31:02 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:31:02 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > [...] >> In order to get around this I'm thinking to excerise the "at your >> option any later version" bit and release under the LGPL 2.1 then a v3 >> version immediately following (as part of the build process). > > In following up with licensing-at-gnu.org, I received this reply: > > The "later version" option doesn't mean that the software is licensed > under both LGPLv2.1 and LGPLv3. It means that the software is licensed > under LGPLv2.1 *or* LGPLv3 (with an exclusive "or"), and it is the > option of the distributor to choose which one. > > I've responded by saying that I'm still thinking on the matter and > that I'd be in touch in a few days. > > I can't quite put my finger on it, but this just strikes me as wrong. > (I can release under the LGPLv2.1, but if I want an LGPLv3 version out > there someone else has to do it?) > > Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on this. Isn't it the case that if *you* are distributing the software, then that implies that you are the distributor, and therefore have the option (that they describe) to distribute under v2.1 or v3, as *your* choice? -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 16:50:52 2008 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:50:52 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: First off, to release under any license (or at least, to do so legally), you must be the copyright holder. As copyright holder you may release under as many licenses as you choose, unless or until you enter into a legally binding agreement with someone else not to. In other words, if you want to do an LGPLv2.1 release and then a seperate LGPLv3 release, noone in the world can legally prevent you. However, if one person releases a patch under v2.1 and another releases a different patch under v3, you may never be able to (legally) combine them. For that reason, you need to seriously consider if you actually want your code running around out there under 2 different (and for all that they have the same name, incompatible) licenses. Cheers, Colin On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > [...] > > In order to get around this I'm thinking to excerise the "at your > > option any later version" bit and release under the LGPL 2.1 then a v3 > > version immediately following (as part of the build process). > > In following up with licensing-at-gnu.org, I received this reply: > > The "later version" option doesn't mean that the software is licensed > under both LGPLv2.1 and LGPLv3. It means that the software is licensed > under LGPLv2.1 *or* LGPLv3 (with an exclusive "or"), and it is the > option of the distributor to choose which one. > > I've responded by saying that I'm still thinking on the matter and > that I'd be in touch in a few days. > > I can't quite put my finger on it, but this just strikes me as wrong. > (I can release under the LGPLv2.1, but if I want an LGPLv3 version out > there someone else has to do it?) > > Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on this. > > Take care, > - Scott. > > > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://www.psema4.com/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 17:33:28 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:33:28 -0500 Subject: ASUS Service No=276140 In-Reply-To: References: <18514798.1225498414555.JavaMail.e_service@eServiceACI02> <20081105192716.GL5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20081106173328.GO5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 10:58:25AM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Well, getting the board to boot under KnoppMyth is the issue... Just make sure knoppmyth is using a 2.6.2x kernel. If they are still on 2.6.18 then they are about 3 years behind and should really get around to updating before they become completely useless. You can't blame hardware for using software much older than the hardware after all. I really wish the people doing knoppmyth would give you a list of what versions of everything is included in the release, but no apparently not. The changelogs don't even make that clear. What a mess. If it was my setup I would just pass on knoppmyth. > 501, it does not fix the PXE issues. What version number does the PXE code have? > They seem to be saying it will not netboot period. But the fact that > the board can run Windows, a supported OS seems to mean in their minds > the board is okay... Well it can also run linux with a recent kernel (even if it can't netboot it). > Well, for years ASUS has been the only motherboard brand I would buy, > some of the nice things I have had to say about an ASUS motherboard > can be seen here: > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8219 > > Right now however I am feeling burnt on the M2N-MX SE PLUS > motherboard, and while I would like to think that it is one bad board, > I am open to other options at this point... Well certainly nvidia made mistakes in PXE code and the whole design of their onboard ethernet port. Lots of boards had problems. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 17:38:22 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:38:22 -0500 Subject: Google Earth crashing X.org In-Reply-To: <20081106034227.hcj4y7mluskksgs8-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <20081106034227.hcj4y7mluskksgs8@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <20081106173822.GP5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 03:42:27AM -0500, Mike Oliver wrote: > Running Ubuntu 7.10, X.org 1.3.0. This used to happen > occasionally, but now for some reason it happens so often > that Google Earth has become virtually unusable. It works > for a little while, and then if I do something innocuous-seeming > (like, say, a mouse click that causes a window to encroach on the > space taken up by Google Earth's window), X totally > spazzes out. It keeps trying, and failing, to restart > the X server, and I can't escape out of it with ctrl-alt-F2 > or ctrl-alt-backspace -- I have to power-cycle the machine. Sounds like video driver crashed. gdm on Debian at least will stop and ask for help after 5 X server failures in less than a certain amount of time. Does ubuntu not have that? > So two questions: (1) Anyone know how to fix this, and > probably more important (2) How do I tell X.org to > GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY and let me have a text > login prompt? If the video driver crashed, then there is nothing left to restore the text mode, so you can't. Which lovely video card and driver is doing this to you? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 17:42:37 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:42:37 -0500 Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? In-Reply-To: References: <20081105193120.GN5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20081106174237.GQ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 02:43:03PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > A clarification here: I did recall there being some limitation > surrounding the root directory, and have created files in > subdirectories, which didn't seem to affect the corruption phenomenon > either positively or negatively. > > The case I ran into this week was one where I was trying to copy a sum > total of 5 files to the SD card; in that case, I wouldn't expect the > directory entry issue to be an issue :-). Which kernel version are you using? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 17:46:28 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:46:28 -0500 Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? In-Reply-To: References: <20081105193120.GN5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20081106174628.GR5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:37:56PM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Why the heck does the spec talk about the file system level? None of > its business I'd say. Well in the case of SD it is. Any device that claims SD compatibility MUST support FAT16. Any device claiming SDHC compatibility MUST support FAT32. It is in the spec. Cards should be preformated that way too. The spec does not say you can't support other filesystems too, but those ones are the minimum requirements. Also compatiblity with other devices is only expected if you use that filesystem. The SD spec is very much about making sure things just work for your typical user, and by specifying the filesystem, it takes care of that. Any SD card over 2GB that doesn't say SDHC, is not an SD card, but a mangled device made by a few companies. Those technically are not even allowed to carry the SD logo although most still did. > Chris: have you tried EXT2 (I think that EXT3's journalling is a Bad > Thing for flash)? journalling is just fine if the wear leveling works properly on the device. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 17:47:05 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:47:05 -0500 Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? In-Reply-To: <20081106174237.GQ5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081105193120.GN5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081106174237.GQ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 02:43:03PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: >> A clarification here: I did recall there being some limitation >> surrounding the root directory, and have created files in >> subdirectories, which didn't seem to affect the corruption phenomenon >> either positively or negatively. >> >> The case I ran into this week was one where I was trying to copy a sum >> total of 5 files to the SD card; in that case, I wouldn't expect the >> directory entry issue to be an issue :-). > > Which kernel version are you using? On Linux, it was: Linux wolfe 2.6.20-1-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Apr 24 21:10:58 UTC 2007 x86_64 GNU/Linux I don't have the laptop handy, so I'm not sure what version of Darwin/OS-X was involved there; it's the latest version of, erm, Tiger... When I'm seeing the *same* behaviour on Linux as on MacOS, I'm mighty suspicious that it's *not* a kernel issue. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 18:19:04 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:19:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Watching Rogers Digital TV on Linux In-Reply-To: <20081106173822.GP5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081106173822.GP5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <696840.41696.qm@web88105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I currently have one digital decoder in the living room where I watch HDTV on the digital channels. Is there a tuner card that works under Linux that can handle Rogers' digital feed? And can it be a USB card so it will work with my PS3 running Ubuntu? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 18:48:15 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 13:48:15 -0500 Subject: Watching Rogers Digital TV on Linux In-Reply-To: <696840.41696.qm-W9LGSkMRpjmB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20081106173822.GP5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <696840.41696.qm@web88105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 11/6/08, Stephen wrote: > I currently have one digital decoder in the living room where I watch HDTV > on the digital channels. > > Is there a tuner card that works under Linux that can handle Rogers' digital > feed? Directly the answer is no. All Rogers digital channels are encrypted, and as far as I know nobody has yet broken the encryption scheme. There are several tuner cards / devices on the market that can grab HDTV over the air and work well under Linux. I own a pcHDTV-5500 PCI TV tuner card and I am quite happy with it plus the roughly 15 digital channels it can grab via a roof mounted antenna. To watch Rogers digital TV you will need a Rogers box somewhere in the chain. There are I gather a FEW Rogers boxes that can be made to spit their output out on Firewire. If you can get one of said boxes your issue will become a good Linux supported Firewire card and getting everything to talk back and forth. > And can it be a USB card so it will work with my PS3 running Ubuntu? You might want to have a look at Silicon Dust's "HDHomeRun" a box with two HDTV capable tuners and does TV --> ethernet. So, any device on your home network COULD get TV... The MythTV community seems to think quite highly of the HDHomeRun and on a per-tuner basis it is fairly reasonably priced. > Thanks > Stephen Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 18:59:20 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 13:59:20 -0500 Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? In-Reply-To: References: <20081105193120.GN5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081106174237.GQ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20081106185920.GS5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 12:47:05PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Linux, it was: > Linux wolfe 2.6.20-1-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Apr 24 21:10:58 UTC 2007 x86_64 GNU/Linux > > I don't have the laptop handy, so I'm not sure what version of > Darwin/OS-X was involved there; it's the latest version of, erm, > Tiger... > > When I'm seeing the *same* behaviour on Linux as on MacOS, I'm mighty > suspicious that it's *not* a kernel issue. Yeah probably faulty hardware then. Some USB card readers are junk as are some usb keys. I have never seen corruption on either myself. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 19:01:21 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:01:21 -0500 Subject: Watching Rogers Digital TV on Linux In-Reply-To: <696840.41696.qm-W9LGSkMRpjmB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20081106173822.GP5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <696840.41696.qm@web88105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081106190121.GT5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 10:19:04AM -0800, Stephen wrote: > I currently have one digital decoder in the living room where I watch HDTV on the digital channels. > > Is there a tuner card that works under Linux that can handle Rogers' digital feed? > > And can it be a USB card so it will work with my PS3 running Ubuntu? Nope. Rogers digital is all encrypted. Nothing you can do. Well you could lobby the CRTC to be more like the FCC and mandate that all local over the air channels be transmitted unencrypted on digital cable, but the CRTC doesn't really seem to care at all about consumers in Canada. All you can really do is feed the video output of the box into the video input of a tuner card and use a IRblaster to change channels on the decoder box, and well it isn't really digital at that point anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 19:28:25 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:28:25 -0500 Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? In-Reply-To: <20081106185920.GS5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081105193120.GN5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081106174237.GQ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081106185920.GS5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 12:47:05PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: >> On Linux, it was: >> Linux wolfe 2.6.20-1-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Apr 24 21:10:58 UTC 2007 x86_64 GNU/Linux >> >> I don't have the laptop handy, so I'm not sure what version of >> Darwin/OS-X was involved there; it's the latest version of, erm, >> Tiger... >> >> When I'm seeing the *same* behaviour on Linux as on MacOS, I'm mighty >> suspicious that it's *not* a kernel issue. > > Yeah probably faulty hardware then. > > Some USB card readers are junk as are some usb keys. I have never seen > corruption on either myself. That's the direction I'm thinking down... I just took a look at what Canada Computers has to offer (they usually have a decent variety of choices, at not-out-there pricing); it looks like it's impossible to pay more than $30 for a USB card reader, which seems encouraging. Numerous units are in the ~$20 range, which is what I'll look at... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 19:49:36 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:49:36 -0500 Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? In-Reply-To: References: <20081105193120.GN5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081106174237.GQ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081106185920.GS5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20081106194936.GU5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 02:28:25PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > That's the direction I'm thinking down... > > I just took a look at what Canada Computers has to offer (they usually > have a decent variety of choices, at not-out-there pricing); it looks > like it's impossible to pay more than $30 for a USB card reader, which > seems encouraging. Numerous units are in the ~$20 range, which is > what I'll look at... Well so far I have used a silverstone internal reader (3.5" drive bay mount) and a mitsumi 3/5" floppy + reader in one, and both worked great. Sandisk readers in general while expensive seem to always work well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 20:08:25 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:08:25 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811061208m6f9abad5rcc84f88f331721b5@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:31 AM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> [...] >>> In order to get around this I'm thinking to excerise the "at your >>> option any later version" bit and release under the LGPL 2.1 then a v3 >>> version immediately following (as part of the build process). >> >> In following up with licensing-at-gnu.org, I received this reply: >> >> The "later version" option doesn't mean that the software is licensed >> under both LGPLv2.1 and LGPLv3. It means that the software is licensed >> under LGPLv2.1 *or* LGPLv3 (with an exclusive "or"), and it is the >> option of the distributor to choose which one. >> >> I've responded by saying that I'm still thinking on the matter and >> that I'd be in touch in a few days. >> >> I can't quite put my finger on it, but this just strikes me as wrong. >> (I can release under the LGPLv2.1, but if I want an LGPLv3 version out >> there someone else has to do it?) >> >> Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on this. > > Isn't it the case that if *you* are distributing the software, then > that implies that you are the distributor, and therefore have the > option (that they describe) to distribute under v2.1 or v3, as *your* > choice? Yeah. My reading is that this option should not be a XOR operation. The EFF suggests otherwise. :S Personally, I believe that the v3 license is the way to go but I don't like the idea of forcing others to upgrade the licenses for their web applications. Technically speaking, I guess I'm splitting hairs by trying to release under both licenses; it would be easy enough to release under the LGPLv2.1 and let others upgrade the license as they see fit. I'd like to offer both from the projects' website simply for convenience. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 20:10:15 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:10:15 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811061210w30d869cfp508fdf4127b5d7da@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:50 AM, colin davidson wrote: > First off, to release under any license (or at least, to do so legally), you > must be the copyright holder. As copyright holder you may release under as > many licenses as you choose, unless or until you enter into a legally > binding agreement with someone else not to. In other words, if you want to > do an LGPLv2.1 release and then a seperate LGPLv3 release, noone in the > world can legally prevent you. I would assume the same, however I'm likely to listen closely to what the EFF / GNU people have to say. > However, if one person releases a patch under v2.1 and another releases a > different patch under v3, you may never be able to (legally) combine them. > For that reason, you need to seriously consider if you actually want your > code running around out there under 2 different (and for all that they have > the same name, incompatible) licenses. Agreed. Another reason for offering both licenses directly from the project site - everyone's on the same page. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 20:14:32 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:14:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0811061208m6f9abad5rcc84f88f331721b5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0811061208m6f9abad5rcc84f88f331721b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Scott Elcomb | Yeah. My reading is that this option should not be a XOR operation. | The EFF suggests otherwise. :S Probably not the EFF. Do you meand FSF? If you think about the legal text the way a programmer thinks about a program, I suspect you will understand and even accept what they are saying. Yes, details matter. In law and code. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 20:22:44 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:22:44 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Next HLUG meeting - Tuesday November 11th. In-Reply-To: <1225996980.15482.2.camel@localhost> References: <1225996980.15482.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811061222ub76f99en8ee935e5528819d0@mail.gmail.com> Rm9yIHRoZSBiZW5lZml0IG9mIHRob3NlIHdobyBtYXkgYmUgd2lsbGluZyB0byB0cmF2ZWwgd2Vz dC4uLgoKLS0tLS0tLS0tLSBGb3J3YXJkZWQgbWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0tLS0tCkZyb206IFJvbiBI YXJ3b29kIDxoYXJ3b29kQG1jbWFzdGVyLmNhPgpEYXRlOiBUaHUsIE5vdiA2LCAyMDA4IGF0IDE6 NDMgUE0KU3ViamVjdDogTmV4dCBITFVHIG1lZXRpbmcgLSBUdWVzZGF5IE5vdmVtYmVyIDExdGgu ClRvOiBobHVnLWFubm91bmNlIDxobHVnLWFubm91bmNlQGhsdWcuY2E+CgoKSGV5IGFsbCwKClll cywgSSBrbm93IC0gSSBzYWlkIHRoZSAxMHRoIGluIG15IGxhc3QgZW1haWwuLi4gSSdtIGEgbW9y b24sIEkgZ2V0Cml0LiAgOykKClRoYXQgc2FpZCAtIFJvb20gNDEwLCBIYW1pbHRvbiBIYWxsLCBN Y01hc3RlciBVbml2ZXJzaXR5Li4uCgpBZ2VuZGE6CgpTY290dCBFbGNvbWI6ICDvu78iQXRvbWlj IE9TOiBUYWtlIDIuIiAtCmh0dHA6Ly9wcm9qZWN0cy5wc2VtYTQuY29tL2F0b21vcy8KCkdsZW5u IFNpbXBzb246ICBSZXBvcnQgb24gT250YXJpbyBMaW51eCBGZXN0CgpXZSdsbCBhbHNvIGRvICJI TFVHIEthcmFva2UiIGFnYWluIC0gaWYgeW91IGhhdmUgYSBxdWljayB0b3BpYywgZXZlbiBhIDUK bWludXRlIG9uZSwgY29tZSBwcmVwYXJlZCB0byB0YWxrIGFib3V0IGl0LiA6KQoKU2VlIHlvdSB0 aGVyZSEKClJvbgoKLS0tLS0tLS0tLSBFTkQgRm9yd2FyZGVkIG1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0tLS0tLQoK Ckkgc2hvdWxkIHByb2JhYmx5IGFsc28gbWVudGlvbiB0aGF0IEdsZW5uIFNpbXBzb24gaXMgbXkK U3RlcC1HcmFuZGZhdGhlciAtIG5vdCB0aGF0IEkgaGFkIGFueSBpZGVhIGhlIHdhcyBwcmVzZW50 aW5nLiAgSSBsb29rCmZvcndhcmQgdG8gaGVhcmluZyBhYm91dCBpdCB0aGlzIHllYXIncyBPTkxJ TlVYIDotKQoKUm9uIHNlbnQgYSBmb2xsb3ctdXAgbWVzc2FnZSBhcyB3ZWxsIHRoYXQgUGV0ZXIg U2FsdXMgd2lsbCBiZSBvbmhhbmQKYW5kIHNpZ25pbmcgdXB0byAxMCBjb3BpZXMgb2YgaGlzIGJv b2sgIlRoZSBEYWVtb24sIHRoZSBHbnUsIGFuZCB0aGUKUGVuZ3VpbiIgLSB0aGV5J3JlICQyNSBD QUQgZWFjaC4KCi0tIAogIFNjb3R0IEVsY29tYgogIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucHNlbWE0LmNvbS8K -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 20:28:01 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:28:01 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Next HLUG meeting - Tuesday November 11th. In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0811061222ub76f99en8ee935e5528819d0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1225996980.15482.2.camel@localhost> <99a6c38f0811061222ub76f99en8ee935e5528819d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811061228n76359a6dp7611c3297c043fd4@mail.gmail.com> T24gVGh1LCBOb3YgNiwgMjAwOCBhdCAzOjIyIFBNLCBTY290dCBFbGNvbWIgPHBzZW1hNEBnbWFp bC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+CgpVbW0uICBOb3Qgc3VyZSB3aGF0IGhhcHBlbmVkIHRoZXJlIC0gYWxs IEkgZ290IGZyb20gdGhlIGxpc3Qgd2FzCndoaXRlc3BhY2UuICBIZXJlJ3MgdGhlIHBvc3QgYWdh aW4gaW4gcGxhaW4gdGV4dC4uLiAgU29ycnkgaWYgeW91IGdldAphIGRvdWJsZS1wb3N0LgoKRm9y IHRoZSBiZW5lZml0IG9mIHRob3NlIHdobyBtYXkgYmUgd2lsbGluZyB0byB0cmF2ZWwgd2VzdC4u LgoKCi0gLSBGb3J3YXJkZWQgbWVzc2FnZSAtIC0KRnJvbTogUm9uIEhhcndvb2QgPGhhcndvb2RA bWNtYXN0ZXIuY2E+CkRhdGU6IFRodSwgTm92IDYsIDIwMDggYXQgMTo0MyBQTQpTdWJqZWN0OiBO ZXh0IEhMVUcgbWVldGluZyAtIFR1ZXNkYXkgTm92ZW1iZXIgMTF0aC4KVG86IGhsdWctYW5ub3Vu Y2UgPGhsdWctYW5ub3VuY2VAaGx1Zy5jYT4KCgpIZXkgYWxsLAoKWWVzLCBJIGtub3cgLSBJIHNh aWQgdGhlIDEwdGggaW4gbXkgbGFzdCBlbWFpbC4uLiBJJ20gYSBtb3JvbiwgSSBnZXQKaXQuICA7 KQoKVGhhdCBzYWlkIC0gUm9vbSA0MTAsIEhhbWlsdG9uIEhhbGwsIE1jTWFzdGVyIFVuaXZlcnNp dHkuLi4KCkFnZW5kYToKClNjb3R0IEVsY29tYjogIO+7vyJBdG9taWMgT1M6IFRha2UgMi4iIC0K aHR0cDovL3Byb2plY3RzLnBzZW1hNC5jb20vYXRvbW9zLwoKR2xlbm4gU2ltcHNvbjogIFJlcG9y dCBvbiBPbnRhcmlvIExpbnV4IEZlc3QKCldlJ2xsIGFsc28gZG8gIkhMVUcgS2FyYW9rZSIgYWdh aW4gLSBpZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBhIHF1aWNrIHRvcGljLCBldmVuIGEgNQptaW51dGUgb25lLCBjb21l IHByZXBhcmVkIHRvIHRhbGsgYWJvdXQgaXQuIDopCgpTZWUgeW91IHRoZXJlIQoKUm9uCgotIC0g RU5EIEZvcndhcmRlZCBtZXNzYWdlIC0gLQoKCkkgc2hvdWxkIHByb2JhYmx5IGFsc28gbWVudGlv biB0aGF0IEdsZW5uIFNpbXBzb24gaXMgbXkKU3RlcC1HcmFuZGZhdGhlciAtIG5vdCB0aGF0IEkg aGFkIGFueSBpZGVhIGhlIHdhcyBwcmVzZW50aW5nLiAgSSBsb29rCmZvcndhcmQgdG8gaGVhcmlu ZyBhYm91dCBpdCB0aGlzIHllYXIncyBPTkxJTlVYIDotKQoKUm9uIHNlbnQgYSBmb2xsb3ctdXAg bWVzc2FnZSBhcyB3ZWxsIHRoYXQgUGV0ZXIgU2FsdXMgd2lsbCBiZSBvbmhhbmQKYW5kIHNpZ25p bmcgdXB0byAxMCBjb3BpZXMgb2YgaGlzIGJvb2sgIlRoZSBEYWVtb24sIHRoZSBHbnUsIGFuZCB0 aGUKUGVuZ3VpbiIgLSB0aGV5J3JlICQyNSBDQUQgZWFjaC4KCi0tIAogIFNjb3R0IEVsY29tYgog IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucHNlbWE0LmNvbS8K -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 20:30:25 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:30:25 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0811061208m6f9abad5rcc84f88f331721b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811061230j715a5c27n89fbc7c67558d1e@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:14 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Scott Elcomb > > | Yeah. My reading is that this option should not be a XOR operation. > | The EFF suggests otherwise. :S > > Probably not the EFF. Do you meand FSF? Bleh. Yes, you're right. My bad. > If you think about the legal text the way a programmer thinks about a > program, I suspect you will understand and even accept what they are > saying. > > Yes, details matter. In law and code. Will consider. Thanks. :-) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 20:49:23 2008 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:49:23 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0811061210w30d869cfp508fdf4127b5d7da-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0811061210w30d869cfp508fdf4127b5d7da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I doubt very much that the EFF/GNU people are telling you that the copyright holder cannot relicense a product. Commercial developers do this all the time (Qt is available under the GPL, but if you don't want to be forced to publish your code, you can purchase a closed license from Trolltech instead, for example). The problem with releasing under both LGPL v2.1 and v3 is that although most OSS developers would respect that and release any patches under both, there is absolutely nothing legal constrining them to do so. They would be compliant so long as they publish under either one of them. Thus there is no way for you to dual license a product and ensure that any patches will be mutually compatible. If this is an issue, choose one and stick with it. If not, do whatever you feel like. * Cheers, Colin *Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and this should not be contrued as legal advice. On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:50 AM, colin davidson > wrote: > > First off, to release under any license (or at least, to do so legally), > you > > must be the copyright holder. As copyright holder you may release under > as > > many licenses as you choose, unless or until you enter into a legally > > binding agreement with someone else not to. In other words, if you want > to > > do an LGPLv2.1 release and then a seperate LGPLv3 release, noone in the > > world can legally prevent you. > > I would assume the same, however I'm likely to listen closely to what > the EFF / GNU people have to say. > > > However, if one person releases a patch under v2.1 and another releases a > > different patch under v3, you may never be able to (legally) combine > them. > > For that reason, you need to seriously consider if you actually want your > > code running around out there under 2 different (and for all that they > have > > the same name, incompatible) licenses. > > Agreed. Another reason for offering both licenses directly from the > project site - everyone's on the same page. > > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://www.psema4.com/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 21:45:50 2008 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:45:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: OT: reference for an emp agency In-Reply-To: <20081028192910.GA22139-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20081028192910.GA22139@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <40797.192.30.202.22.1226007950.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > Greetings, > > Has anyone done business with the Ant and Bee Corp agency? I've never > heard of them. Are they reputable? > > -- > Neil Watson > System Administrator for hire > http://watson-wilson.ca A woman from them contacted me for a contract with requirements for technical skills that I do not have. She apparently never bothered to check my resume for them. I asked their address for my files, and she did not know it. She had to go away to ask someone. They seem to be slightly north of Union Station, but my files are on a different PC. I expect that she was an extreme beginner at the company. J. E. McIntosh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 21:50:33 2008 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:50:33 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081106165033.tlndks3o08gck48w@mail.math.yorku.ca> Quoting Scott Elcomb : > On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > [...] > > In following up with licensing-at-gnu.org, I received this reply: > > The "later version" option doesn't mean that the software is licensed > under both LGPLv2.1 and LGPLv3. It means that the software is licensed > under LGPLv2.1 *or* LGPLv3 (with an exclusive "or"), and it is the > option of the distributor to choose which one. > > I've responded by saying that I'm still thinking on the matter and > that I'd be in touch in a few days. > > I can't quite put my finger on it, but this just strikes me as wrong. > (I can release under the LGPLv2.1, but if I want an LGPLv3 version out > there someone else has to do it?) > > Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on this. I'm not a lawyer, but I just don't believe this can be correct. I think this may be what the GNU people would *like* you to do, but I can't see how they can keep you from releasing your IP under whatever licenses you like. You have no contractual relationship with them at all. Or have I missed something? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 22:40:10 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:40:10 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: <20081106165033.tlndks3o08gck48w-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> <20081106165033.tlndks3o08gck48w@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <4913724A.2000409@rogers.com> Mike Oliver wrote: > Quoting Scott Elcomb : > >> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> [...] >> >> In following up with licensing-at-gnu.org, I received this reply: >> >> The "later version" option doesn't mean that the software is licensed >> under both LGPLv2.1 and LGPLv3. It means that the software is licensed >> under LGPLv2.1 *or* LGPLv3 (with an exclusive "or"), and it is the >> option of the distributor to choose which one. >> >> I've responded by saying that I'm still thinking on the matter and >> that I'd be in touch in a few days. >> >> I can't quite put my finger on it, but this just strikes me as wrong. >> (I can release under the LGPLv2.1, but if I want an LGPLv3 version out >> there someone else has to do it?) >> >> Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on this. > > I'm not a lawyer, but I just don't believe this can be correct. I think > this may be what the GNU people would *like* you to do, but I can't > see how > they can keep you from releasing your IP under whatever licenses you > like. > You have no contractual relationship with them at all. > > Or have I missed something? > You can licence under multiple licences. Here's an example of one instance: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081104-diebold-faces-gpl-infringement-lawsuit-over-voting-machines.html -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 22:49:08 2008 From: colinpdavidson-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (colin davidson) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 17:49:08 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: <20081106165033.tlndks3o08gck48w-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> <20081106165033.tlndks3o08gck48w@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: I don't think the licensing really matters until someone release a change to the code. At that point they have three options, all legal, as far as I can see. 1 - Release with the same "dual license" as the original was released under. 2 - release under v2.1 only or 3 - release under v3 only. All three patches are compatible with the original release, but 2 & 3 are not compatible with each other. At least, that's how it appears to me. For a definitive answer, consult a lawyer. On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Mike Oliver wrote: > Quoting Scott Elcomb : > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> [...] >> >> In following up with licensing-at-gnu.org, I received this reply: >> >> The "later version" option doesn't mean that the software is licensed >> under both LGPLv2.1 and LGPLv3. It means that the software is licensed >> under LGPLv2.1 *or* LGPLv3 (with an exclusive "or"), and it is the >> option of the distributor to choose which one. >> >> I've responded by saying that I'm still thinking on the matter and >> that I'd be in touch in a few days. >> >> I can't quite put my finger on it, but this just strikes me as wrong. >> (I can release under the LGPLv2.1, but if I want an LGPLv3 version out >> there someone else has to do it?) >> >> Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on this. >> > > I'm not a lawyer, but I just don't believe this can be correct. I think > this may be what the GNU people would *like* you to do, but I can't see how > they can keep you from releasing your IP under whatever licenses you like. > You have no contractual relationship with them at all. > > Or have I missed something? > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 23:27:09 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 18:27:09 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: <4913724A.2000409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> <20081106165033.tlndks3o08gck48w@mail.math.yorku.ca> <4913724A.2000409@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811061527q644d4b4aj69cf06033ab518a4@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 5:40 PM, James Knott wrote: > You can licence under multiple licences. Here's an example of one instance: > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081104-diebold-faces-gpl-infringement-lawsuit-over-voting-machines.html I fully agree with (as I'm certain any number of other companies would agree with) multi-licensing. This specific case looks like it's deals particularly with the GPL, in which (I would figure) it's completely irresponsible - not to mention unethical - to use the software commercially without providing the source. In my case: - As a Rich Internet Application development library, source always accompanies the distribution (availability of source code is a pre-determined _MUST-HAVE_ in web apps; otherwise they don't work. ;-) - As an LGPL licensed library, ANY project (including proprietary products) may make use of Atomic OS - with or without "proper attribution." Evan L. may be able to provide some insight as to /why/ I chose this license... After a fair bit of research I selected the LGPL - for the very reasons he mentioned (and not because it was he that mentioned them). Version 3 throws me for a loop only because the GPL3 is (what I'd call) extremely viral. In order for existing applications to use an LGPLv3 library, the application (all-of-it) must be entirely upgraded to fit-in with the GPLv3 / LGPLv3 licensing schema. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 23:39:38 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 18:39:38 -0500 Subject: ASUS Service No=276140 In-Reply-To: <20081105192716.GL5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <18514798.1225498414555.JavaMail.e_service@eServiceACI02> <20081105192716.GL5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 11/5/08, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 04, 2008 at 08:46:56PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: >> I am very annoyed at the thought of buying another motherboard. I am >> not going to buy another CPU, case, etc.. So, I am now in the market >> for a replacement motherboard. I have called ASUS and they suggested >> the M3N78 EMH HDMI motherboard which I gather from a tour of the >> College & Spadina area clone dealers is no longer available. > > Canada Computers claims to have 5 M3N78-VM boards at their downtown > store. Seems to be quite available in fact. Will it netboot? Who > knows. Will it work with the 2.6.18 kernel that knoppmyth appears to be > using? Probably not. A kernel that isn't 3 years old would be much > more likely to work. In fact a quick check says it requires 2.6.26 or > higher to work with that chipset. Ran across the following: wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/The_Saga_of_Network_Issues_and_Fixes Seems there are netboot issues with the M3N78-VM. Sigh... What ought to be a 30 minute job, (or an afternoon's job if you include running to the shops to buy hardware) is turning into a multi-month pain in the @#$% >> So, here is what I need: >> >> - Support for Linux network booting. > > Could be hard to ensure, given how few people netboot, it may be rarely > tested. You would think that enough firms are doing POS (point-of-sale) systems and the like that this sort of stuff would get tested. >> - No Linux hostile BIOS bugs > > Not sure there exists a bug free bios. :) Maybe not, but the bugs should not be killer ones... >> - MicroATX form factor >> - Support for an AMD Socket AM2 Athlon 3200+ CPU >> - Support for DDR2 PC2 - 5300 memory > > Those seem reasonable. > >> - Onboard nVidia graphics, GeForce 5200 or better > > That requires the nvidia chipset, which brings back the reverse mac > address stupidity issue in most cases (at least I suspect so). Sigh... I have been looking at some of ATI based motherboards, there the issue is the poor quality of the ATI Linux graphics drivers. >> - 1 (or more) PCIExpress x16 expansion slot. >> - Something available locally, shipping charges would at this point be >> an insult on top on an injury... >> >> Suggestions? Normally I would be just looking at ASUS board, but after >> this experience I think that is a brand I would like to avoid... > > No idea. Asus is the only brand I will buy. > > -- > Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 6 23:39:48 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:39:48 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0811061527q644d4b4aj69cf06033ab518a4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> <20081106165033.tlndks3o08gck48w@mail.math.yorku.ca> <4913724A.2000409@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0811061527q644d4b4aj69cf06033ab518a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49138044.20803@rogers.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 5:40 PM, James Knott wrote: > >> You can licence under multiple licences. Here's an example of one instance: >> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081104-diebold-faces-gpl-infringement-lawsuit-over-voting-machines.html >> > > I fully agree with (as I'm certain any number of other companies would > agree with) multi-licensing. > > This specific case looks like it's deals particularly with the GPL, in > which (I would figure) it's completely irresponsible - not to mention > unethical - to use the software commercially without providing the > source. > Commercial use is permitted, provided a commercial license is purchased. Diebold chose to use the GPL version, instead of buying the appropriate license. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 7 00:01:41 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 19:01:41 -0500 Subject: ASUS Service No=276140 In-Reply-To: References: <18514798.1225498414555.JavaMail.e_service@eServiceACI02> <20081105192716.GL5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20081107000141.GV5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 06:39:38PM -0500, Colin McGregor wrote: > Ran across the following: > > wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/The_Saga_of_Network_Issues_and_Fixes > > Seems there are netboot issues with the M3N78-VM. Sigh... Seems rather vague on details. It doesn't really say what kind of issues. It's hard to find good info on netboot since so few people do it. > What ought to be a 30 minute job, (or an afternoon's job if you > include running to the shops to buy hardware) is turning into a > multi-month pain in the @#$% Well netboot has always been a pain. I have some Decstation's that are supposed to netboot, but don't because of firmware bugs. > You would think that enough firms are doing POS (point-of-sale) > systems and the like that this sort of stuff would get tested. I suspect they don't netboot either in most cases. > Maybe not, but the bugs should not be killer ones... For 99.99% of users, if it boots windows from harddisk, then it isn't a killer bios bug. > Sigh... I have been looking at some of ATI based motherboards, there > the issue is the poor quality of the ATI Linux graphics drivers. Yep, no kidding. Not sure I would want to go there. Or there is getting an add in network card that does netboot, but that wastes a slot of course. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 7 00:03:59 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 19:03:59 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: <49138044.20803-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> <20081106165033.tlndks3o08gck48w@mail.math.yorku.ca> <4913724A.2000409@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0811061527q644d4b4aj69cf06033ab518a4@mail.gmail.com> <49138044.20803@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811061603v51a1433etb2bbf3f649804130@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 6:39 PM, James Knott wrote: > Scott Elcomb wrote: >> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 5:40 PM, James Knott wrote: >>> You can licence under multiple licences. Here's an example of one instance: >>> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081104-diebold-faces-gpl-infringement-lawsuit-over-voting-machines.html >>> >> >> I fully agree with (as I'm certain any number of other companies would >> agree with) multi-licensing. >> >> This specific case looks like it's deals particularly with the GPL, in >> which (I would figure) it's completely irresponsible - not to mention >> unethical - to use the software commercially without providing the >> source. >> > > Commercial use is permitted, provided a commercial license is > purchased. Diebold chose to use the GPL version, instead of buying the > appropriate license. OK - Just to be clear... It's absolutely fine to "use" GPL'd software commercially... as long as ALL of the freedoms provided by the GPL are provided to the recipient. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 7 00:31:36 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 19:31:36 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: <20081106165033.tlndks3o08gck48w-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> <20081106165033.tlndks3o08gck48w@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811061631yb1740b1k6be9cdda46f45360@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Mike Oliver wrote: > Quoting Scott Elcomb : > >> On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> [...] >> >> In following up with licensing-at-gnu.org, I received this reply: >> >> The "later version" option doesn't mean that the software is licensed >> under both LGPLv2.1 and LGPLv3. It means that the software is licensed >> under LGPLv2.1 *or* LGPLv3 (with an exclusive "or"), and it is the >> option of the distributor to choose which one. >> >> I've responded by saying that I'm still thinking on the matter and >> that I'd be in touch in a few days. >> >> I can't quite put my finger on it, but this just strikes me as wrong. >> (I can release under the LGPLv2.1, but if I want an LGPLv3 version out >> there someone else has to do it?) >> >> Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on this. > > I'm not a lawyer, but I just don't believe this can be correct. I think > this may be what the GNU people would *like* you to do, but I can't see how > they can keep you from releasing your IP under whatever licenses you like. > You have no contractual relationship with them at all. > > Or have I missed something? No that I know of. I'd be really happy to hear otherwise though. :-) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 7 08:17:20 2008 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 03:17:20 -0500 Subject: Google Earth crashing X.org In-Reply-To: <20081106173822.GP5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081106034227.hcj4y7mluskksgs8@mail.math.yorku.ca> <20081106173822.GP5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20081107031720.g4784lm3dw84gc84@mail.math.yorku.ca> Quoting Lennart Sorensen : > Sounds like video driver crashed. > > gdm on Debian at least will stop and ask for help after 5 X server > failures in less than a certain amount of time. Does ubuntu not have > that? Dunno; I use KDE. But if, as you say below, there's nothing to be done once the driver crashes, how would it help? >> So two questions: (1) Anyone know how to fix this, and >> probably more important (2) How do I tell X.org to >> GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY and let me have a text >> login prompt? > > If the video driver crashed, then there is nothing left to restore the > text mode, so you can't. > > Which lovely video card and driver is doing this to you? It appears to be something called Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03) (prog-if 00 [VGA]) I guess that's the hardware -- not sure how to find out about the driver. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 7 14:34:12 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 09:34:12 -0500 Subject: Google Earth crashing X.org In-Reply-To: <20081107031720.g4784lm3dw84gc84-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <20081106034227.hcj4y7mluskksgs8@mail.math.yorku.ca> <20081106173822.GP5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081107031720.g4784lm3dw84gc84@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <20081107143412.GW5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 03:17:20AM -0500, Mike Oliver wrote: > Dunno; I use KDE. But if, as you say below, there's nothing > to be done once the driver crashes, how would it help? Well if it crashes again and again, but flashes between text mode and graphics, then if it stopped trying after 5 times and stayted in text mode, you could actually do something. If it just crashes and leaves it in graphics mode without restoring it, then there isn't much that can be done. > It appears to be something called > > Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics > Controller (rev 03) (prog-if 00 [VGA]) > > I guess that's the hardware -- not sure how to find out about > the driver. OK, so one of the very few with opensource openGL drivers. Not sure how good those openGL drivers are yet, but at least they are open source and being worked on. I know it is being actively developed, so it may get better (and sometimes worse) by updating the X and kernel versions (the direct rendering management is in the kernel). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 7 17:50:55 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 12:50:55 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT Linux Admin./Oracle DBA Job Message-ID: I got an e-mail from Martin Frank Wong who is looking for someone to be a Linux Admin and Oracle DBA, with roughly 50% of time to be spent on each side of the job. The Linux Admin. stuff I have but the Oracle is a problem for me. So, if this position works for someone here e-mail : martin-OqG0OQuMkmgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 7 17:54:44 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 12:54:44 -0500 Subject: LGPL Version Exclusivity (Was: Releasing software under both LGPL 2.1 & 3 - A good idea?) In-Reply-To: <49138044.20803-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0811060800j6889a028pf922290ac6306e6c@mail.gmail.com> <20081106165033.tlndks3o08gck48w@mail.math.yorku.ca> <4913724A.2000409@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0811061527q644d4b4aj69cf06033ab518a4@mail.gmail.com> <49138044.20803@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811070954x31a24b61p4223bdcc2112632d@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 6:39 PM, James Knott wrote: > Scott Elcomb wrote: >> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 5:40 PM, James Knott wrote: >> >>> You can licence under multiple licences. Here's an example of one instance: >>> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081104-diebold-faces-gpl-infringement-lawsuit-over-voting-machines.html >>> >> >> I fully agree with (as I'm certain any number of other companies would >> agree with) multi-licensing. >> >> This specific case looks like it's deals particularly with the GPL, in >> which (I would figure) it's completely irresponsible - not to mention >> unethical - to use the software commercially without providing the >> source. >> > > Commercial use is permitted, provided a commercial license is > purchased. Diebold chose to use the GPL version, instead of buying the > appropriate license. Looking further into the information provided by the Ars Technica article, I'm reading that the "infringement" is a result of Diebold (and/or it's subsiduary Premier Election Solutions) using an Artifex Software product that was released under it's own AFPL license - not the GPL. >From the Ghostscript list archive it looks like the version on the voting machines was dated before the GPL release. http://www.ghostscript.com/pipermail/gs-devel/2007-November/007481.html It'll be interesting to watch how this all plays out. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 7 20:19:23 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:19:23 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT Linux Admin./Oracle DBA Job In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am not aspiring for this. Collin, and what is your Canadian experience, bullshit? ;( The work I still have was a big luck to me. The boss did not ask me what I know. He rather asked me what I can learn. What is f**n difference betwen Oracle and Postgres? Or even MySQL? Well, it is rare to find a boss I have now. But it is also rare to see someone woken up and thinking on her own. On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > I got an e-mail from Martin Frank Wong who is looking for someone to > be a Linux Admin and Oracle DBA, with roughly 50% of time to be spent > on each side of the job. The Linux Admin. stuff I have but the Oracle > is a problem for me. > > So, if this position works for someone here e-mail : martin-OqG0OQuMkmgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org > > Thanks. > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 7 20:47:59 2008 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:47:59 -0500 Subject: Call for Submissions2009 Subtle Technologies Festival on networks Message-ID: <1226090879.17090.55.camel@jims-laptop> Thought some TLUGers may be interested in this.. jim Call for Submissions 2009 Subtle Technologies Festival Deadline January 5th 2009 The 2009 Subtle Technologies Festival in Toronto is currently seeking submissions for it?s festival under the theme of ?networks? . The festival takes place in Toronto from June 11 to June 14th . As in previous years, the 2009 festival will explore it?s theme from a broad cultural and interdisciplinary perspective. We live in an increasingly connected age, where flow of capital, material goods, people and information occur on a global scale in ever-shortening timescales. This increased flow is accompanied by pollution,contamination, infectious diseases and the rapid dissemination of ideas and economies. Metaphors of connectivity in information technology have matured and found resonance in art, science, and society at large. The availability of massive amounts of data supported by increased computing power and the rapidity of its propagation, has made the idea of interconnectedness more visible to us all. Science has made great strides in helping us to understand the connected age. The so called ?small world problem? has revealed the ways networks of people form and become interconnected. Studies of oscillators, insects, heart cells, epilepsy, and crowds has shown us the natural affinity for various networks and systems to synchronize and self organize.The creation of new computer architectures based on biological networks has brought artificial intelligence ever closer to natural intelligence. With the proliferation of online social networks, Web 2.0 applications such as Facebook, Twitter and Second Life have blurred the boundaries between public and private, virtual and real. Web 3.0 and the ?internet of things?, where common household objects will become interconnected, will be one of the next major advances in digital networking. Increased bandwidth has made it possible for media artists to collaborate in online real time networked performances. ?Network lag? is slowly disappearing from our vocabulary as our accessibility to bandwidth improves. It is time to critically discuss the network metaphor and how it affects the direction of various disciplines and our societies at large. Under this theme, we will be curating a symposium, exhibition, workshops and performances. Some specific topics which we will address at this years festival include: * net art * networked performance * biological networks * wireless networks * social networking * communication, transportation and economic networks * virtual worlds * systems theory * community networks * network theory * collaborative and open source initiatives * online culture * ?small world problem? and mathematical models * genetic networks * To make a submission for exhibitions, symposium presentations, workshops, performances and poster presentations please go to http://www.subtletechnologies.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 8 02:33:19 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 21:33:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Toner Cartridge for Lexmark C530DN? Message-ID: <4840.173.34.8.54.1226111599.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Can anyone suggest a local supplier for these toner cartridges? I'm hoping to find the black toner cartridge for less than $125. Or a pointer to a reputable toner refill outfit would also be useful. Thanks - Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 8 19:23:38 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 14:23:38 -0500 Subject: Toner Cartridge for Lexmark C530DN? In-Reply-To: <4840.173.34.8.54.1226111599.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <4840.173.34.8.54.1226111599.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4915E73A.5080203@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Can anyone suggest a local supplier for these toner cartridges? I'm hoping > to find the black toner cartridge for less than $125. > > Or a pointer to a reputable toner refill outfit would also be useful. > > Thanks - > Peter > > If you buy on-line direct from Lexmark you can get it for $102.60. See this link for details: http://www.lexmark.com/lexmark/product/home/641/0,6970,204812589_653293763_885641857_en,00.html?tabId=7 John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 8 15:01:53 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 10:01:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: F/LOSS job: Developer / Evangelist Message-ID: <49685.70.110.160.197.1226156513.squirrel@webmail.weait.com> Are you a developer looking for a full time job developing for an Open Source project? Do you think OpenStreetMap is cool? <-- Hint: the answer is "Yes" Let me know and I'll send you the complete posting. The successful candidate will work with a high energy, world wide team on some Very Cool Projects. You should be organized, methodical, detail-oriented, and a super-duper, top notch developer. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 9 00:45:48 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 19:45:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Toner Cartridge for Lexmark C530DN? In-Reply-To: <4915E73A.5080203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4840.173.34.8.54.1226111599.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4915E73A.5080203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <14040.173.34.8.54.1226191548.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Can anyone suggest a local supplier for these toner cartridges? I'm >> hoping >> to find the black toner cartridge for less than $125. >> >> Or a pointer to a reputable toner refill outfit would also be useful. >> >> Thanks - >> Peter >> >> > If you buy on-line direct from Lexmark you can get it for $102.60. See > this link for details: > > http://www.lexmark.com/lexmark/product/home/641/0,6970,204812589_653293763_885641857_en,00.html?tabId=7 > > John > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Thanks, John. The best deal I could find on the web from someone in Canada is this one for $89: http://www.agileelectronics.ca/prod_details/tab/details.asp?prod_id=C5200KS A friend says it's quite possible to reload toner cartridges, and a kit is about $30. So I may go that route. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 9 05:10:13 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 01:10:13 -0400 Subject: Reliability of USB-based filesystems? Lack thereof? In-Reply-To: <20081106194936.GU5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081105193120.GN5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081106174237.GQ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081106185920.GS5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081106194936.GU5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 02:28:25PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: >> That's the direction I'm thinking down... >> >> I just took a look at what Canada Computers has to offer (they usually >> have a decent variety of choices, at not-out-there pricing); it looks >> like it's impossible to pay more than $30 for a USB card reader, which >> seems encouraging. Numerous units are in the ~$20 range, which is >> what I'll look at... > > Well so far I have used a silverstone internal reader (3.5" drive bay > mount) and a mitsumi 3/5" floppy + reader in one, and both worked great. > > Sandisk readers in general while expensive seem to always work well. I just did some testing with a Kingston reader that seems very encouraging. It's working flawlessly, thus far. Historically, I have tended to prefer non-brand names, as they usually had to be generic enough to be pretty Linux-compatible. In contrast, brand names often chose to go their own way, not necessarily in directions implying high levels of compatibility. Linux compatibility has become sufficiently essential that I suppose that the past "wisdom" is no longer so. Thus, replacing cruddy hardware with somewhat better hardware evidently is a good way to go... Thanks all for chiming in! -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 9 14:04:24 2008 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 09:04:24 -0500 Subject: Toner Cartridge for Lexmark C530DN? In-Reply-To: <14040.173.34.8.54.1226191548.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <4840.173.34.8.54.1226111599.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4915E73A.5080203@rogers.com> <14040.173.34.8.54.1226191548.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20081109140424.A77D1854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Peter Hiscocks wrote: > A friend says it's quite possible to reload toner cartridges, and a > kit is about $30. So I may go that route. I noted recently at the Grand&Toy in the Eaton Centre that they have an in-store machine to recharge ink cartridges, but that may not extend to toner. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 9 15:24:01 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 10:24:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Toner Cartridge for Lexmark C530DN? In-Reply-To: <20081109140424.A77D1854F0-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4840.173.34.8.54.1226111599.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4915E73A.5080203@rogers.com> <14040.173.34.8.54.1226191548.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20081109140424.A77D1854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4613.173.34.8.54.1226244241.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Peter Hiscocks wrote: > >> A friend says it's quite possible to reload toner cartridges, and a >> kit is about $30. So I may go that route. > Dave Mason wrote: > I noted recently at the Grand&Toy in the Eaton Centre that they have an > in-store machine to recharge ink cartridges, but that may not extend to > toner. > Thanks for the pointer, I'll check them out. Apparently there is an EPROM on the toner cartridge that you also need to replace to tell the printer that this is a genuine cartridge. So it's not as simple as refilling with toner. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 9 18:43:07 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 13:43:07 -0500 Subject: creating a user for phpmyadmin Message-ID: <20081109134307.322f2211@teksavvy.com> Wading my way through setting up my first mysql database, and I've connected with phpmyadmin, but before I go any further I want to make sure I get the user creation part exactly right. I'm getting the warning from phpmyadmin/mysql that "Your configuration file contains settings (root with no password) that correspond to the default MySQL privileged account. Your MySQL server is running with this default, is open to intrusion, and you really should fix this security hole." I've read some articles on setting up the first user, but they were based on a totally manual installation and configuration, so I'm not sure if these are appropriate. Is it advisable to edit the phpmyadmin config manually, or is there an operation within the web interface that I'm not seeing? -- Joe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 9 20:26:09 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 15:26:09 -0500 Subject: creating a user for phpmyadmin In-Reply-To: <20081109134307.322f2211-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20081109134307.322f2211@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: JoeHill, dont be afraid to edit files manually. You are probably on your home computer that is not broadly open to the Internet, possibly besides a router (iptables are helpfull anyway; "man iptables"). If so, you do not need to care a lot about security. MySQL should have better be running as a less privileged user, not as root. Tend to use the console, not these funny web interfaces. Besides that not much more on my side. I do not remember details of how phpmyadmin works. zb. On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 1:43 PM, JoeHill wrote: > > Wading my way through setting up my first mysql database, and I've connected > with phpmyadmin, but before I go any further I want to make sure I get the user > creation part exactly right. > > I'm getting the warning from phpmyadmin/mysql that "Your configuration file > contains settings (root with no password) that correspond to the default MySQL > privileged account. Your MySQL server is running with this default, is open to > intrusion, and you really should fix this security hole." > > I've read some articles on setting up the first user, but they were based on a > totally manual installation and configuration, so I'm not sure if these are > appropriate. Is it advisable to edit the phpmyadmin config manually, or is > there an operation within the web interface that I'm not seeing? > > -- > Joe > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 9 21:15:08 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 16:15:08 -0500 Subject: creating a user for phpmyadmin In-Reply-To: References: <20081109134307.322f2211@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20081109161508.17f3b2f3@teksavvy.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 1:43 PM, JoeHill wrote: > > > > Wading my way through setting up my first mysql database, and I've connected > > with phpmyadmin, but before I go any further I want to make sure I get the > > user creation part exactly right. > > > > I'm getting the warning from phpmyadmin/mysql that "Your configuration file > > contains settings (root with no password) that correspond to the default > > MySQL privileged account. Your MySQL server is running with this default, > > is open to intrusion, and you really should fix this security hole." > > > > I've read some articles on setting up the first user, but they were based > > on a totally manual installation and configuration, so I'm not sure if > > these are appropriate. Is it advisable to edit the phpmyadmin config > > manually, or is there an operation within the web interface that I'm not > > seeing? > > JoeHill, dont be afraid to edit files manually. Not so much afraid of config files, just want to make sure that they're edited _properly_. None of the instructions I found matched my situation, in fact the most detailed ones were aimed at phpmyadmin on Windows, which does not exactly fill me with confidence. > You are probably on your home computer that is not broadly open to the > Internet, possibly besides a router (iptables are helpfull anyway; > "man iptables"). If so, you do not need to care a lot about security. Eventually this will be accessible from the 'Net, though. > MySQL should have better be running as a less privileged user, not as root. > > Tend to use the console, not these funny web interfaces. > > Besides that not much more on my side. I do not remember details of > how phpmyadmin works. > -- Joe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 9 21:28:42 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 16:28:42 -0500 Subject: creating a user for phpmyadmin In-Reply-To: <20081109161508.17f3b2f3-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20081109134307.322f2211@teksavvy.com> <20081109161508.17f3b2f3@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <4917560A.2070503@utoronto.ca> JoeHill wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 1:43 PM, JoeHill wrote: >>> Wading my way through setting up my first mysql database, and I've connected >>> with phpmyadmin, but before I go any further I want to make sure I get the >>> user creation part exactly right. >>> >>> I'm getting the warning from phpmyadmin/mysql that "Your configuration file >>> contains settings (root with no password) that correspond to the default >>> MySQL privileged account. Your MySQL server is running with this default, >>> is open to intrusion, and you really should fix this security hole." >>> >>> I've read some articles on setting up the first user, but they were based >>> on a totally manual installation and configuration, so I'm not sure if >>> these are appropriate. Is it advisable to edit the phpmyadmin config >>> manually, or is there an operation within the web interface that I'm not >>> seeing? >> JoeHill, dont be afraid to edit files manually. > > Not so much afraid of config files, just want to make sure that they're edited > _properly_. None of the instructions I found matched my situation, in fact the > most detailed ones were aimed at phpmyadmin on Windows, which does not exactly > fill me with confidence. > >> You are probably on your home computer that is not broadly open to the >> Internet, possibly besides a router (iptables are helpfull anyway; >> "man iptables"). If so, you do not need to care a lot about security. > > Eventually this will be accessible from the 'Net, though. > >> MySQL should have better be running as a less privileged user, not as root. >> >> Tend to use the console, not these funny web interfaces. >> >> Besides that not much more on my side. I do not remember details of >> how phpmyadmin works. >> Step 1 from this page will shut phpmyadmin up: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2002/07/11/MySQLtips.html Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 9 22:12:25 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 17:12:25 -0500 Subject: creating a user for phpmyadmin In-Reply-To: <4917560A.2070503-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20081109134307.322f2211@teksavvy.com> <20081109161508.17f3b2f3@teksavvy.com> <4917560A.2070503@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20081109171225.5f3d44e3@teksavvy.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > JoeHill wrote: > > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > >> On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 1:43 PM, JoeHill wrote: > >>> Wading my way through setting up my first mysql database, and I've > >>> connected with phpmyadmin, but before I go any further I want to make > >>> sure I get the user creation part exactly right. > >>> > >>> I'm getting the warning from phpmyadmin/mysql that "Your configuration > >>> file contains settings (root with no password) that correspond to the > >>> default MySQL privileged account. Your MySQL server is running with this > >>> default, is open to intrusion, and you really should fix this security > >>> hole." > >>> > >>> I've read some articles on setting up the first user, but they were based > >>> on a totally manual installation and configuration, so I'm not sure if > >>> these are appropriate. Is it advisable to edit the phpmyadmin config > >>> manually, or is there an operation within the web interface that I'm not > >>> seeing? > >> JoeHill, dont be afraid to edit files manually. > > > > Not so much afraid of config files, just want to make sure that they're > > edited _properly_. None of the instructions I found matched my situation, > > in fact the most detailed ones were aimed at phpmyadmin on Windows, which > > does not exactly fill me with confidence. > > > >> You are probably on your home computer that is not broadly open to the > >> Internet, possibly besides a router (iptables are helpfull anyway; > >> "man iptables"). If so, you do not need to care a lot about security. > > > > Eventually this will be accessible from the 'Net, though. > > > >> MySQL should have better be running as a less privileged user, not as root. > >> > >> Tend to use the console, not these funny web interfaces. > >> > >> Besides that not much more on my side. I do not remember details of > >> how phpmyadmin works. > >> > > Step 1 from this page will shut phpmyadmin up: > http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2002/07/11/MySQLtips.html Totally what I was looking for, thanks Jamon :-) -- Joe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 9 21:42:48 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 16:42:48 -0500 Subject: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? Message-ID: <20081109214248.GA14738@waltdnes.org> One of my co-workers has two children. She also has two older laptops at home that are too underpowered to run current Windows. You can see where this is leading to. One is a P4, and will probably be able to handle Xubuntu, the "lightweight desktop" version of Ubuntu. The other is a P3. I know from personal experimentation that a P3 with 128 megs of ram is *NOT* up to handling even Xubuntu. Can you put in blackbox or fluxbox as the WM for any of the ?Ubuntu variants, and drop the "desktop environment", or should we look elsewhere for a lighter distro? I had Gentoo running OK on an ancient Dell P3 desktop with 128 megs of ram, by optimizing the daylights out of Gentoo. But while my co-worker has had a bit of experience as and end-user with linux/unix at work, I do not recommend Gentoo as your first linux. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 9 23:12:20 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:12:20 -0500 Subject: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? In-Reply-To: <20081109214248.GA14738-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20081109214248.GA14738@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811091512j49efee28r949ab0724ef8327f@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > One of my co-workers has two children. She also has two older laptops > at home that are too underpowered to run current Windows. You can see > where this is leading to. One is a P4, and will probably be able to > handle Xubuntu, the "lightweight desktop" version of Ubuntu. The other > is a P3. I know from personal experimentation that a P3 with 128 megs > of ram is *NOT* up to handling even Xubuntu. > > Can you put in blackbox or fluxbox as the WM for any of the ?Ubuntu > variants, and drop the "desktop environment", or should we look > elsewhere for a lighter distro? I had Gentoo running OK on an ancient > Dell P3 desktop with 128 megs of ram, by optimizing the daylights out of > Gentoo. But while my co-worker has had a bit of experience as and > end-user with linux/unix at work, I do not recommend Gentoo as your > first linux. It should be possible to switch window managers though I haven't tried. Switched to PCLinux OS a while back when my hard drive died. (I switch distros every now and then to sample flavors. :-) Anyway, can't try it now. You might try Knoppix[1] or one of it's derivatives though. I've used it on older machines. If Knoppix is really slow (or you're really tight on resources [386's to P2's]) try Basic Linux[2]. You'll have to add source code and compile to build it up, but it'll be lightweight. Pocket Linux[3] can be done the same way. Pocket doesn't come with an X Server, but does walk through the building of a custom Linux. [1] http://www.knoppix.org/ [2] http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/baslinux/ [3] http://www.pocket-linux.org/ -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 9 23:45:58 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 18:45:58 -0500 Subject: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0811091512j49efee28r949ab0724ef8327f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20081109214248.GA14738@waltdnes.org> <99a6c38f0811091512j49efee28r949ab0724ef8327f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811091545id85a06fyada28318633971a9@mail.gmail.com> > Pocket Linux[3] can be done the same way. Pocket doesn't come with an > X Server, but does walk through the building of a custom Linux. > > [1] http://www.knoppix.org/ > [2] http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/baslinux/ > [3] http://www.pocket-linux.org/ Err - sorry. [3] should point to http://tldp.org/LDP/Pocket-Linux-Guide/html/index.html -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 01:17:48 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 20:17:48 -0500 Subject: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? In-Reply-To: <20081109214248.GA14738-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20081109214248.GA14738@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > One of my co-workers has two children. She also has two older laptops > at home that are too underpowered to run current Windows. You can see > where this is leading to. One is a P4, and will probably be able to > handle Xubuntu, the "lightweight desktop" version of Ubuntu. The other > is a P3. I know from personal experimentation that a P3 with 128 megs > of ram is *NOT* up to handling even Xubuntu. > > Can you put in blackbox or fluxbox as the WM for any of the ?Ubuntu > variants, and drop the "desktop environment", or should we look > elsewhere for a lighter distro? I had Gentoo running OK on an ancient > Dell P3 desktop with 128 megs of ram, by optimizing the daylights out of > Gentoo. But while my co-worker has had a bit of experience as and > end-user with linux/unix at work, I do not recommend Gentoo as your > first linux. I'm responding to this using an Acer "netbook" running Ubuntu, and I have eliminated Metacity & compiz in favour of the keyboard-based WM, "ratpoison." In *that* sense, it's certainly practical to replace the "window manager" portions with lighter-weight things. Unfortunately, by doing so, I lose the automatic linking-in of bits of GNOME (e.g. - in terms of system management tools), and this loses me the ability to follow "Ubuntu-oriented" instructions. And if you decline to use "GNOME-based bits," your friends will suffer in the same fashion. I feel mighty conflicted about that; on the one hand, the popularity of Ubuntu has, in part, fallen out of the fact that Canonical & friends have generated reasonably friendly tools to help newbies manage their systems. Unfortunately, as soon as I diverge (via different window manager), that is lost, and "Ubuntu tips" that expect to use system menus (as opposed to saying "oh, apt-get install $PACKAGE_LIST") become useless. There's a disturbing parallel to the "Windows way," where there's the strong tradition of "oh, follow these 17 menu paths", which always tended to discourage people from understanding what might lie behind them. That's not *purely* a Windows thing, to be sure; AIX's "smitty" has some of the same effect on AIX (though it always offers a way to get at at least some of what lay behind the menues), and MacOS has the same (where a tool called "CLIX" can offer a look behind the curtain, which often leads to surprises). I have an "irritation of the week" that relates; I find the keyboard on this laptop a tad small, and have been considering hooking up a Bluetooth keyboard of more convenient size. (I've got a folding one that's not currently pairing against my N800; the Apple wireless keyboard seems likely to be pretty suitable; my one "grand regret" is that nobody seems to still sell the Happy Hacker's keyboard, which I *absolutely love*, and I should probably buy another given opportunity...) I expect that there's some Ubuntu tool for setting up pairing of Bluetooth devices; in the absence of the Gnome bits, it's certainly no longer a "friendly" matter to figure this out. Does that help? :-) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 02:59:08 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 21:59:08 -0500 Subject: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? In-Reply-To: <20081109214248.GA14738-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20081109214248.GA14738@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4917A37C.2040500@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > The other > is a P3. I know from personal experimentation that a P3 with 128 megs > of ram is *NOT* up to handling even Xubuntu. > > You might have a look at antiX which is a version of Mepis designed specifically for older hardware and lower ram. Here's the link to its wiki page: http://antix.mepis.org/index.php/Main_Page HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 03:31:49 2008 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:31:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? In-Reply-To: <4917A37C.2040500-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4917A37C.2040500@rogers.com> Message-ID: <995794.76161.qm@web110313.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> P3 is okey, but 128MB is not. If you have old rams lying about, then put them in. If not, throw it away. --William --- On Sun, 11/9/08, John McGregor wrote: > From: John McGregor > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Received: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:59 PM > Walter Dnes wrote: > > The other > > is a P3. I know from personal experimentation that a > P3 with 128 megs > > of ram is *NOT* up to handling even Xubuntu. > > > > > You might have a look at antiX which is a version of Mepis > designed specifically for older hardware and lower ram. > Here's the link to its wiki page: > > http://antix.mepis.org/index.php/Main_Page > > HTH > > John > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Get the name you've always wanted @ymail.com or @rocketmail.com! Go to http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 05:12:43 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:12:43 -0500 Subject: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? In-Reply-To: <20081109214248.GA14738-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20081109214248.GA14738@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20081110001243.2162e622@teksavvy.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > One of my co-workers has two children. She also has two older laptops > at home that are too underpowered to run current Windows. You can see > where this is leading to. One is a P4, and will probably be able to > handle Xubuntu, the "lightweight desktop" version of Ubuntu. The other > is a P3. I know from personal experimentation that a P3 with 128 megs > of ram is *NOT* up to handling even Xubuntu. I have a _ton_ of old RAM lying around, let me know if that might help. > Can you put in blackbox or fluxbox as the WM for any of the ?Ubuntu > variants, and drop the "desktop environment", or should we look > elsewhere for a lighter distro? I had Gentoo running OK on an ancient > Dell P3 desktop with 128 megs of ram, by optimizing the daylights out of > Gentoo. But while my co-worker has had a bit of experience as and > end-user with linux/unix at work, I do not recommend Gentoo as your > first linux. -- Joe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 05:33:56 2008 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:33:56 -0500 Subject: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? In-Reply-To: <20081109214248.GA14738-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20081109214248.GA14738@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20081110003356.710dfaf6.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 16:42:48 -0500 "Walter Dnes" wrote: > One of my co-workers has two children. She also has two older laptops > at home that are too underpowered to run current Windows. You can see > where this is leading to. One is a P4, and will probably be able to > handle Xubuntu, the "lightweight desktop" version of Ubuntu. The other > is a P3. I know from personal experimentation that a P3 with 128 megs > of ram is *NOT* up to handling even Xubuntu. > > Can you put in blackbox or fluxbox as the WM for any of the ?Ubuntu > variants, and drop the "desktop environment", or should we look > elsewhere for a lighter distro? I had Gentoo running OK on an ancient > Dell P3 desktop with 128 megs of ram, by optimizing the daylights out of > Gentoo. But while my co-worker has had a bit of experience as and > end-user with linux/unix at work, I do not recommend Gentoo as your > first linux. Walter, I am running Fedora Core_6 on my Pentium II/350. A year or two ago, I increased my RAM from 256MB to 636MB. I installed FVWM2, http://www.fvwm.org. This window manager is small and fast. Logging in is very fast. Read the sample.fvwm2rc files. The best thing to do is copy one of these into your home directory, and pull them up into a text editor. Most of what is in there is comments in English. I increased my RAM because of Open Office. At 256MB, browsing seemed to work fine. Open Office causes paging. I think Gnome is a perfectly good desktop on an old, slow machine. It is fast enough, and it is user friendly, especially for someone from the Windows world. KDE is bloatware. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 16:01:37 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:01:37 -0500 Subject: is Bob Young out of his mind? Message-ID: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram@295.ca> When Bob Young left RedHat he used some of his wealth to setup a publish on demand service called Lulu.com. I recently wrote and published a book using this service and the experience was fantanstic until this morning. I went to order a copy of my book online and discovered that the shipping costs to Canada had gone from $12US a month ago to $85US today !!! Someone ordering my $35US book online would now pay $120US to have it shipped. Lulu.com may be using the best open source technology but someone in charge has just instituted a suicidal policy change. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 15:29:22 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:29:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: is Bob Young out of his mind? In-Reply-To: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <11264.173.34.8.54.1226330962.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Surely that's an error. We order parts from Digikey in Thief River Falls, Minnesota, and the overnight delivery charge is $8. Total. Maybe that should be $8.50? Peter > When Bob Young left RedHat he used some of his wealth to setup a publish > on > demand service called Lulu.com. I recently wrote and published a book > using this service and the experience was fantanstic until this morning. > > I went to order a copy of my book online and discovered that the shipping > costs to Canada had gone from $12US a month ago to $85US today !!! > Someone > ordering my $35US book online would now pay $120US to have it shipped. > > Lulu.com may be using the best open source technology but someone in > charge > has just instituted a suicidal policy change. > > bob > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 16:20:47 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:20:47 -0500 Subject: is Bob Young out of his mind? In-Reply-To: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 11:01 AM, bob 295 wrote: > When Bob Young left RedHat he used some of his wealth to setup a publish on > demand service called Lulu.com. I recently wrote and published a book > using this service and the experience was fantanstic until this morning. > > I went to order a copy of my book online and discovered that the shipping > costs to Canada had gone from $12US a month ago to $85US today !!! Someone > ordering my $35US book online would now pay $120US to have it shipped. > > Lulu.com may be using the best open source technology but someone in charge > has just instituted a suicidal policy change. Well, there's a new president in the Untied States, and I got the impression from the campaigning that there was an intent for there to be more protectionism... This might be one of the disadvantages ... ;-) I would note that there are several shipping methods, only some of which are priced near $100. It looks like the "pricey" options all involve FedEx. I'm guessing something happened there, and I doubt it's under Lulu's control. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 16:30:03 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:30:03 -0500 Subject: is Bob Young out of his mind? In-Reply-To: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <4918618B.5020300@telly.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 bob 295 wrote: > I went to order a copy of my book online and discovered that the > shipping costs to Canada had gone from $12US a month ago to $85US > today !!! Someone ordering my $35US book online would now pay > $120US to have it shipped. I just talked to someone involved with Lulu; the reply was that your $85 quote was for next day delivery (what they call "express"), and that cheaper shipping options exist. They did admit that it was probably not a good idea to have next day as the default shipping method and are looking into changing this. - - Evan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJGGGKB6WWYxnsgmwRAkvRAKCJcVTv8dPVjV9DdOdKQEcBGFRdCwCgh+p5 pcNUtXrTGsglUcYvUEw2nS8= =nRK3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 22:22:38 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:22:38 -0500 Subject: is Bob Young out of his mind? In-Reply-To: <4918618B.5020300-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram@295.ca> <4918618B.5020300@telly.org> Message-ID: <200811101722.41346.icanprogram@295.ca> On November 10, 2008 11:30 am, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > bob 295 wrote: > > I went to order a copy of my book online and discovered that the > > shipping costs to Canada had gone from $12US a month ago to $85US > > today !!! Someone ordering my $35US book online would now pay > > $120US to have it shipped. > > I just talked to someone involved with Lulu; the reply was that your > $85 quote was for next day delivery (what they call "express"), and > that cheaper shipping options exist. > > They did admit that it was probably not a good idea to have next day > as the default shipping method and are looking into changing this. > > - Evan Actually the problem is that no cheaper shipping option exists. As of 08Oct31 there are only two shipping options available for my book: Standard ($82.86US) and Express ($94.26US). Official word I got from Lulu is that an "Economy" option is being investigated and might be available in a "few weeks". This is a textbook case of how to commit business suicide. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 22:31:43 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:31:43 -0500 Subject: is Bob Young out of his mind? In-Reply-To: <200811101722.41346.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram@295.ca> <4918618B.5020300@telly.org> <200811101722.41346.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 5:22 PM, bob 295 wrote: > On November 10, 2008 11:30 am, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> bob 295 wrote: >> > I went to order a copy of my book online and discovered that the >> > shipping costs to Canada had gone from $12US a month ago to $85US >> > today !!! Someone ordering my $35US book online would now pay >> > $120US to have it shipped. >> >> I just talked to someone involved with Lulu; the reply was that your >> $85 quote was for next day delivery (what they call "express"), and >> that cheaper shipping options exist. >> >> They did admit that it was probably not a good idea to have next day >> as the default shipping method and are looking into changing this. >> >> - Evan > > Actually the problem is that no cheaper shipping option exists. > > As of 08Oct31 there are only two shipping options available for my book: > Standard ($82.86US) and > Express ($94.26US). > > Official word I got from Lulu is that an "Economy" option is being > investigated and might be available in a "few weeks". > > This is a textbook case of how to commit business suicide. I have to respectfully disagree... It is not likely that the Canadian market (which is what was affected by this) represents materially more than 10% of their market, and that's what would have been adversely affected by this situation. Having 10% of the market "chopped off" is certainly not a good thing, but I don't think it's fair to characterize that as "business suicide." Furthermore, it is not evident what led to the loss of the cheaper shipping option. I wouldn't think it likely that Lulu would decide "by magic" to drop inexpensive shipping options; it should seem obvious that making shipping punitively expensive would pretty demolish this export market. I suggest that what happened, in fact, is that Lulu needed to renegotiate pricing on shipping in general, and that the (rather large!) changes to foreign shipping rates was something that they viewed (legitimately!) as a relatively minor side-effect, to be remedied later. To the contrary, it's entirely plausible that their shipping service providers presented them with rate changes, falling out of the various recent economic events (oil, general economic downturn, etc), where it might have been committing "business suicide" to NOT have made the changes that they have. Having a couple of weeks when shipping to Canada was "way too expensive" would be preferable to having analagous problems in the more crucial US market - *that* would be "business suicide"... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 22:39:08 2008 From: Alexander.Short-V7Ve2fXh0sTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Alexander Short) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:39:08 -0500 Subject: is Bob Young out of his mind? In-Reply-To: <200811101722.41346.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram@295.ca> <4918618B.5020300@telly.org> <200811101722.41346.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: >As of 08Oct31 there are only two shipping options available for my book: >Standard ($82.86US) and >Express ($94.26US). I picked a random book and quoted out shipping to Milton Ontario. Is it perhaps your book has some strange size/weight that doesn't jive in their system? Ground $16.65 Standard $82.86 Express $94.29 Super Fast - Ships Next Day Overnight Delivery $107.86 Super Mega Fast - Ships Today Overnight Delivery $144.29 From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 23:50:53 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:50:53 -0500 Subject: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? In-Reply-To: References: <20081109214248.GA14738@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20081110235053.GB17288@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Nov 09, 2008 at 08:17:48PM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote > I'm responding to this using an Acer "netbook" running Ubuntu, and I > have eliminated Metacity & compiz in favour of the keyboard-based WM, > "ratpoison." > > In *that* sense, it's certainly practical to replace the "window > manager" portions with lighter-weight things. > > Unfortunately, by doing so, I lose the automatic linking-in of bits of > GNOME (e.g. - in terms of system management tools), and this loses me > the ability to follow "Ubuntu-oriented" instructions. And if you > decline to use "GNOME-based bits," your friends will suffer in the > same fashion. This reminds me of a few years ago when PAM was default on Gentoo. As far as security settings were concerned "everything you know is wrong". RTFM doesn't work when sttings made in PAM totally override settings made in the standard config file listed in the man page. I switched off PAM as soon as someone pointed me to the HOWTO page on the Gentoo Wiki. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 10 23:54:03 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:54:03 -0500 Subject: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? In-Reply-To: <4917A37C.2040500-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20081109214248.GA14738@waltdnes.org> <4917A37C.2040500@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20081110235403.GC17288@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Nov 09, 2008 at 09:59:08PM -0500, John McGregor wrote > You might have a look at antiX which is a version of Mepis designed > specifically for older hardware and lower ram. Here's the link to > its wiki page: > > http://antix.mepis.org/index.php/Main_Page Thanks. That looks like the way to go. I'll give her the ISO CD on Wednesday. Others have suggested adding RAM. With portables, that can be tricky. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 11 00:19:15 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:19:15 -0500 Subject: is Bob Young out of his mind? In-Reply-To: References: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram@295.ca> <200811101722.41346.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <200811101919.17432.icanprogram@295.ca> On November 10, 2008 05:39 pm, Alexander Short wrote: > >As of 08Oct31 there are only two shipping options available for my book: > >Standard ($82.86US) and > >Express ($94.26US). > > I picked a random book and quoted out shipping to Milton Ontario. Is it > perhaps your book has some strange size/weight that doesn't jive in their > system? > > Ground $16.65 > Standard $82.86 > Express $94.29 > Super Fast - Ships Next Day Overnight Delivery $107.86 > Super Mega Fast - Ships Today Overnight Delivery $144.29 I don't know how you managed to get that price for shipping. I tried again just now to see and only Standard and Express are available. Here is my book link: http://www.lulu.com/content/2741200 I'm not the only one experiencing this problem. The Lulu forums are full of hugely dissatisfied customers from all around the globe. One customer was complaining that shipping his DVD (Lulu sells more than books) to Spain was costing over 100 Euros, so it has nothing to do with weight or size. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 11 08:09:41 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 03:09:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: a hard hardware upgrade Message-ID: I recently bought an inexpensive off-lease HP Small Form Factor computer from Factory Direct: http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=HP0515 Built like a tanks. Unfortunately it has only Low Profile sockets (2 x PCI, PCIe x1, and PCIe x16). It has DVI-D and VGA out. But I need analogue video out for my application (HTPC with an old TV). So I look for a cheap Low Profile video card with analogue out. The only one I found was this: http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=017062&cid=999.243.390 According to the online inventory, I got the second-last one in their system. Cheap due to rebate. It comes as a full-height card. But there are two "plates" to replace the full height one that is installed. (By "plate", I mean the metal bracket on the end of the card that sticks out the back of the computer.) I switch plates and try to install it. It will not fit! More correctly, it will fit but it cannot be installed because there is not enough clearance. I end up removing the motherboard, installing the card in the motherboard, and then installing the motherboard. Or trying. Even that doesn't quite work. I have to remove the plate, install the motherboard, place the plate in its final position in the case, install the motherboard, and finally attach the plate to the card. When I've done that, I turn on the computer and find that it all works! Except that the card's fan is too loud for HTPC. Oh well. (With this card, glxgears using the nv driver gets about 240 fps. With the proprietary driver, between 1900 and 2000.) I thought that the proprietary driver might be able to throttle the fan but that seems not to be the case. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 11 15:49:22 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:49:22 -0500 Subject: is Bob Young out of his mind? In-Reply-To: <200811101919.17432.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram@295.ca> <200811101919.17432.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <200811111049.23073.icanprogram@295.ca> On November 10, 2008 07:19 pm, bob 295 wrote: > On November 10, 2008 05:39 pm, Alexander Short wrote: > > >As of 08Oct31 there are only two shipping options available for my book: > > >Standard ($82.86US) and > > >Express ($94.26US). > > > > I picked a random book and quoted out shipping to Milton Ontario. Is it > > perhaps your book has some strange size/weight that doesn't jive in their > > system? > > > > Ground $16.65 > > Standard $82.86 > > Express $94.29 > > Super Fast - Ships Next Day Overnight Delivery $107.86 > > Super Mega Fast - Ships Today Overnight Delivery $144.29 > > I don't know how you managed to get that price for shipping. I tried > again just now to see and only Standard and Express are available. > > Here is my book link: > http://www.lulu.com/content/2741200 > > I'm not the only one experiencing this problem. The Lulu forums are full > of hugely dissatisfied customers from all around the globe. One customer > was complaining that shipping his DVD (Lulu sells more than books) to Spain > was costing over 100 Euros, so it has nothing to do with weight or size. > > bob Thanks to Alexander's experiment I did one of my own this morning. I created a Lulu account in my wife's name. When I used that account to order my book I was presented with the same options as Alexander reported. Same book. Same address. 2 different accounts. 2 very different sets of shipping options. = software bug. This Lulu problem should become a case study. For want of what may turn out to be a software glitch, in less than two weeks Lulu has managed to piss off a large fraction of their creator community and drive them to explore a very viable competitor in CreativeSpace.com. Enough said. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 11 15:23:13 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:23:13 -0500 Subject: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? In-Reply-To: <20081110235053.GB17288-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20081109214248.GA14738@waltdnes.org> <20081110235053.GB17288@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20081111152313.GX5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 06:50:53PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > This reminds me of a few years ago when PAM was default on Gentoo. As > far as security settings were concerned "everything you know is wrong". > RTFM doesn't work when sttings made in PAM totally override settings > made in the standard config file listed in the man page. I switched off > PAM as soon as someone pointed me to the HOWTO page on the Gentoo Wiki. On the other hand keeping all authentication settings in one place rather than spread throughout lots of config files is a rather good idea. Sometimes what you know isn't the best solution and spending a little effort can be worth it. Once you stop being willing to learn new ways, you become obsolete. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 11 15:33:36 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:33:36 -0500 Subject: a hard hardware upgrade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081111153336.GY5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 03:09:41AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I recently bought an inexpensive off-lease HP Small Form Factor > computer from Factory Direct: > http://www.factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=HP0515 > > Built like a tanks. Unfortunately it has only Low Profile sockets (2 x > PCI, PCIe x1, and PCIe x16). > > It has DVI-D and VGA out. But I need analogue video out for my > application (HTPC with an old TV). > > So I look for a cheap Low Profile video card with analogue out. > > The only one I found was this: > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=017062&cid=999.243.390 > According to the online inventory, I got the second-last one in their > system. Cheap due to rebate. So what you might really want is something like this: http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014473&cid=999.243.390 along with one of these: http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=015259&cid=999.956 > It comes as a full-height card. But there are two "plates" to replace > the full height one that is installed. (By "plate", I mean the metal > bracket on the end of the card that sticks out the back of the > computer.) > > I switch plates and try to install it. It will not fit! More > correctly, it will fit but it cannot be installed because there is not > enough clearance. > > I end up removing the motherboard, installing the card in the > motherboard, and then installing the motherboard. Or trying. Even > that doesn't quite work. I have to remove the plate, install the > motherboard, place the plate in its final position in the case, > install the motherboard, and finally attach the plate to the card. > > When I've done that, I turn on the computer and find that it all > works! Except that the card's fan is too loud for HTPC. Oh well. > > (With this card, glxgears using the nv driver gets about 240 fps. > With the proprietary driver, between 1900 and 2000.) > > I thought that the proprietary driver might be able to throttle the > fan but that seems not to be the case. Or perhaps it really has such bad ventilation is a crappy case like that, that it really does have to keep spinning like crazy to try and cool off. Those business desktops were not meant to any kind of performance work. The DX5150 also has one of the worst chipsets I have ever seen. I remember lots of problems on lkml with people trying to get them to work, and plenty of workarounds having to be done due to hardware bugs, BIOS bugs, etc. I wouldn't have paid $90 for one of those. HP + ati chipset + low profile. There is nothing there to like. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 11 15:44:13 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:44:13 -0500 Subject: is Bob Young out of his mind? In-Reply-To: <200811101919.17432.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram@295.ca> <200811101722.41346.icanprogram@295.ca> <200811101919.17432.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <20081111154413.GZ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 07:19:15PM -0500, bob 295 wrote: > I don't know how you managed to get that price for shipping. I tried again > just now to see and only Standard and Express are available. > > Here is my book link: > http://www.lulu.com/content/2741200 > > I'm not the only one experiencing this problem. The Lulu forums are full of > hugely dissatisfied customers from all around the globe. One customer was > complaining that shipping his DVD (Lulu sells more than books) to Spain was > costing over 100 Euros, so it has nothing to do with weight or size. I see a 'ground shipping' option. Shipping and Handling * Ground$16.65 * Standard$82.86 * Express$94.29 * Super Fast - Ships Next Day Overnight Delivery$107.86 Super Fast shipping gives orders priority in the manufacturing process. Orders placed before 4PM EST(21:00UTC) will be shipped by the end of the next business day via express air. The shipping price for this service includes a $25.00 rush fee. * Super Mega Fast - Ships Today Overnight Delivery$144.29 Super Mega Fast shipping gives orders priority in the manufacturing process. Orders placed before 10 AM EST(15:00UTC) will be shipped the same business day via express air. The shipping price for this service includes a $50.00 rush fee. I wonder if the ground option is only available to certain addresses. I am in thornhill, and get an option of ground. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 11 15:57:28 2008 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:57:28 -0500 Subject: is Bob Young out of his mind? In-Reply-To: <200811111049.23073.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811101101.38896.icanprogram@295.ca> <200811101919.17432.icanprogram@295.ca> <200811111049.23073.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <20081111155728.4A33F854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> > Thanks to Alexander's experiment I did one of my own this morning. I > created a Lulu account in my wife's name. When I used that account to > order my book I was presented with the same options as Alexander > reported. > Same book. Same address. 2 different accounts. 2 very different > sets of shipping options. = software bug. Try deleting any cookies, "log out" etc. from the Lulu site. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 11 21:24:04 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:24:04 -0500 Subject: mutt FROM emacs Message-ID: <1226438644.16675.769.camel@localhost> hi guys, so i've finally set up my little laptop as a sort of emacs typewriter -- i log in to an openbox session with emacs running full screen, in an effort to reduce distractions. now sometimes i'll write something that i want to email out somewhere. I keep my contacts in evolution, which i can query from mutt using this python script i found on the mutt wiki: http://wiki.mutt.org/?QueryCommand/EvolutionSearch . one strategy is to start a terminal emulator, invoke mutt, use emacsclient as the editor, copy the contents of the relevant buffer into the message... that's not really so bad, but i'd rather have a command i can invoke directly from an active buffer that does something like "put the contents of the current buffer into the body of a mail message addressed to an address i cna get out of my contacts files". anyone do anytghing like this? i guess i could also use one of the emacs mail modes ratherthan mutt -- i'm releuctant to do that just cause i don't want to learn another MUA hwen i already feel like i have too many -- but if it's much easier i'd definitely be open to it. anyway, thanks as always for your help. matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 11 21:51:30 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:51:30 -0500 Subject: mutt FROM emacs In-Reply-To: <1226438644.16675.769.camel@localhost> References: <1226438644.16675.769.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20081111215130.GA2432@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 04:24:04PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > >so i've finally set up my little laptop as a sort of emacs typewriter -- >i log in to an openbox session with emacs running full screen, in an >effort to reduce distractions. now sometimes i'll write something that >i want to email out somewhere. I keep my contacts in evolution, which i >can query from mutt using this python script i found on the mutt wiki: >http://wiki.mutt.org/?QueryCommand/EvolutionSearch . one strategy is to >start a terminal emulator, invoke mutt, use emacsclient as the editor, >copy the contents of the relevant buffer into the message... that's not >really so bad, but i'd rather have a command i can invoke directly from >an active buffer that does something like "put the contents of the >current buffer into the body of a mail message addressed to an address i >cna get out of my contacts files". anyone do anytghing like this? i >guess i could also use one of the emacs mail modes ratherthan mutt -- >i'm releuctant to do that just cause i don't want to learn another MUA >hwen i already feel like i have too many -- but if it's much easier i'd >definitely be open to it. I do not speak emacs, as I am a vim user and do not have time/inclination to retrain my brain/hands, but this came up on a Google search for emacs mutt mode: http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/emacs-en/MuttMode -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 11 21:58:21 2008 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:58:21 -0500 Subject: mutt FROM emacs In-Reply-To: <1226438644.16675.769.camel@localhost> References: <1226438644.16675.769.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20081111215821.E48E0854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> emacs mh-mode is the Ace! and it's mh behind the scenes, so is highly configurable and usable in a terminal window, if you don't want to fire up emacs (remotely, or something). ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 11 23:37:33 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:37:33 -0500 Subject: mutt FROM emacs In-Reply-To: <20081111215821.E48E0854F0-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1226438644.16675.769.camel@localhost> <20081111215821.E48E0854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1226446653.16675.1178.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 16:58 -0500, Dave Mason wrote: > emacs mh-mode is the Ace! > > and it's mh behind the scenes, so is highly configurable and usable in a > terminal window, if you don't want to fire up emacs (remotely, or > something). > ... so unfortunately i'm still very lame at even reading, let alone writing, elisp. if i wanted to write a quick function that e.g. grabbed the contents of the current buffer & inserted it into a new message whose "to" header i could set using a query from some contacts database (evolution, gmail, or something else) -- how would you recommend i start out? and, er, i realize i'm not even sure what mh is. isn't it an MUA? appears not to be installed on my ubuntu system... will hunt around more, sorry to keep asking questions w/out trying solutions, my son has a fever & don't want to lose track of this conversation.... matt > ../Dave > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 12 04:28:23 2008 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 23:28:23 -0500 Subject: mutt FROM emacs In-Reply-To: <1226446653.16675.1178.camel@localhost> References: <1226438644.16675.769.camel@localhost> <20081111215821.E48E0854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <1226446653.16675.1178.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20081112042823.9E860854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> The first links in 'google: ubuntu mh' give mh and mh-e (the emacs package to work with mh). It would take a bit of elisp to prompt for a name and look it up in your evolution contact list, but I don't know what kind of user interface you want, so can't suggest much in the way of code. I have only used emacs mailers for a *long* time (my inboxes go back to 1995, so I guess that's when), so I don't have any experience of hooking into other systems. If you said exactly what you wanted, I might be able to help. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 12 05:25:39 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 00:25:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: a hard hardware upgrade In-Reply-To: <20081111153336.GY5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081111153336.GY5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen Thanks for your reply. | On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 03:09:41AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > So I look for a cheap Low Profile video card with analogue out. | > | > The only one I found was this: | > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=017062&cid=999.243.390 | > According to the online inventory, I got the second-last one in their | > system. Cheap due to rebate. | | So what you might really want is something like this: | http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014473&cid=999.243.390 | along with one of these: | http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=015259&cid=999.956 Good idea. Too bad that the stock is so low. I just tried a passively cooled GeForce 6200 with the Low Profile plate from the FeForce 8500. Seemed to work. | > (With this card, glxgears using the nv driver gets about 240 fps. | > With the proprietary driver, between 1900 and 2000.) Using the 6200 with proprietary drivers, glxgears yielded 720 FPS with (vs 870 FPS for the on-board ATI controller with default open source drivers. I don't think glxgears is at all meaningful for my application but, heh, it was there. | > I thought that the proprietary driver might be able to throttle the | > fan but that seems not to be the case. | | Or perhaps it really has such bad ventilation is a crappy case like | that, that it really does have to keep spinning like crazy to try and | cool off. I don't think so. I ran it with the cover off too. nVidia's control panel seemed to show that the temperature was quite low. | Those business desktops were not meant to any kind of | performance work. If you mean "not meant to handle a large extra heat load" then that would have been fine. I don't want an HTPC computer generating a lot of heat. So that should inform my choice of video card. Unfortunately it is hard to find out the power usage of cards. This card did not require an extra power connector which I take as a good sign. | The DX5150 also has one of the worst chipsets I have ever seen. I | remember lots of problems on lkml with people trying to get them to | work, and plenty of workarounds having to be done due to hardware bugs, | BIOS bugs, etc. I wouldn't have paid $90 for one of those. | HP + ati chipset + low profile. There is nothing there to like. I like HP. I know that you don't. My Compaq business desktops have been mechanically well built. They feel much better than the Dells (I know that you don't like Dell either). The box is easy to disassemble for service. It seems well thought-out mechanically. Except for cooling. It seems solidly built -- the sheet metal is heavier-gauge than on most systems. These HPs are noisier than I would like. This is disappointing because the other HPs I've had have been remarkably quiet. I think that the noisiest part is the CPU fan. The chipset seems to be well supported now. I had a system with it in the early days and there were a few oddities. Like the clock running fast. Ubuntu 8.10 poured onto the system with no apparent box-related problems. Low Profile would seem like an advantage because it gives you more slots in SFF than full height. But requiring LP cards is rather constraining. My other SFF boxes take full-height cards. Maybe PCIe doesn't take to riser cards. I paid a bit less than $90. They were $70 with a coupon. I thought that was reasonable for what these are. Bad: DDR1, Low Profile, a bit noisy Good: SFF, Business, AMD 64, SATA, VGA and DVI-D, serial port Slightly older P4-based (Celeron) HPs are available now from Factory Direct (I think). I don't care for P4s I wonder what "refurbished" means when the machines come with dust bunnies. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 12 14:03:57 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:03:57 -0500 Subject: mutt FROM emacs In-Reply-To: <20081111215130.GA2432-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <1226438644.16675.769.camel@localhost> <20081111215130.GA2432@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1226498637.16675.1926.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 16:51 -0500, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 04:24:04PM -0500, Matt Price wrote: > > > >so i've finally set up my little laptop as a sort of emacs typewriter -- > >i log in to an openbox session with emacs running full screen, in an > >effort to reduce distractions. now sometimes i'll write something that > >i want to email out somewhere. I keep my contacts in evolution, which i > >can query from mutt using this python script i found on the mutt wiki: > >http://wiki.mutt.org/?QueryCommand/EvolutionSearch . one strategy is to > >start a terminal emulator, invoke mutt, use emacsclient as the editor, > >copy the contents of the relevant buffer into the message... that's not > >really so bad, but i'd rather have a command i can invoke directly from > >an active buffer that does something like "put the contents of the > >current buffer into the body of a mail message addressed to an address i > >cna get out of my contacts files". anyone do anytghing like this? i > >guess i could also use one of the emacs mail modes ratherthan mutt -- > >i'm releuctant to do that just cause i don't want to learn another MUA > >hwen i already feel like i have too many -- but if it's much easier i'd > >definitely be open to it. > > I do not speak emacs, as I am a vim user and do not have > time/inclination to retrain my brain/hands, but this came up on a Google > search for emacs mutt mode: > > http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/emacs-en/MuttMode unfortunately the link on that page is down. but mutt-mode appears to have been superseded by post-mode, which is at sourceforge now: http://post-mode.sourceforge.net/ thanks! matt -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 12 17:39:33 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:39:33 -0500 Subject: mutt FROM emacs In-Reply-To: <20081112042823.9E860854F0-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1226438644.16675.769.camel@localhost> <20081111215821.E48E0854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <1226446653.16675.1178.camel@localhost> <20081112042823.9E860854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1226511573.8767.407.camel@localhost> sorry, meant to send to list. On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 23:28 -0500, Dave Mason wrote: > The first links in 'google: ubuntu mh' give mh and mh-e (the emacs > package to work with mh). > > It would take a bit of elisp to prompt for a name and look it up in your > evolution contact list, but I don't know what kind of user interface you > want, so can't suggest much in the way of code. > > I have only used emacs mailers for a *long* time (my inboxes go back to > 1995, so I guess that's when), so I don't have any experience of hooking > into other systems. > > If you said exactly what you wanted, I might be able to help. > hi dave, thanks for your generous offer. i've had a chance to think briefly about this, and i think i understand my requirements a little bit better. I want one function that searches a database of addresses and returns a set of possibilities, of which one or more can be chosen. I'd settle for just choosing one, but in mutt itself i like being able to mark multiple addresses and have mutt accept a set of addresses. Maybe it's easy to do this using bbdb, but i haven't used it yet so i'm not familiar with how it works. In any case i'm a little bit leery of starting yet another addressbook, when one of my main issues is having too many already. there is supposed to be a bbdb plugin for evolution but i can't find it anywhere in the user interface... there are various scripts written for mutt to query external databases. they all return a list of email addresses, one address per line. so i would like one function that that invokes an external query command, then accepts the results into some kind of buffer from which one or more addresses cna be chosen and returned as elements of the to-header. most of the mutt scripts are in python, so i guess one could use the pymacs module if that makes things easier...i tried to frame this in pseudocde but realized i don't know where to start. do you have any ideas? if not there may be a way to get around this part (see below). on top of this i want a second function that, on invocation, inserts the contents of the current buffer into a message body, and initiates a search within my contacts database. i could do this two ways: eitherwith mh-mode or somehow starting a mutt instance to do some of the stuff directly. so using mh-e, i'm imagining something like this: (defun send-this-buffer (address) mark-whole-buffer mh-smail ;; then i don't know the real names of the commands i'm looking ;; for mh-go-to-message-body yank ;; query function is the one i couldn't figure out ;; in the previous paragrah mh-insert-to-address (query-address (address)) ) alternatively one could just start mutt from within emacs -- i found a little script online that more or less does that: http://www.vinc17.org/mutt/emacs-mutt.el . i'm not sure exactly what's going on there, but i imagine it could be modified into something more like what i had above; and one would use the post-mode post.el, designed for mutt, to insert stuff into : (defun start-mutt-with-this-buffer-contents (address) (mark-whole-buffer) ;; i'm pretty sure the syntax is wrong below ;; final term needs to be a listp -- not sure ;; what that means (set-buffer (apply 'make-term "Mutt" "mutt" nil address)) (switch-to-buffer "*Mutt*") ;; at this point i would hope that a mutt process would be started in ;; the new buffer & the address query could take place within mutt ;; itself. then mutt would start yet another buffer for the actual ;; message, using post.el as its mode. the address field would already ;; be set, we would just have to insert the buffer contents (post-goto-body) (yank) ) looks clumsy and imperfect to me that's as much as i can come up with right now with a feverish and somewhat whiny five-year-old on my hands. thanks for your help! really appreciateit... matt ../Dave -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 12 17:44:10 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:44:10 -0500 Subject: lisp syntax: mutt FROM emacs In-Reply-To: <20081112042823.9E860854F0-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1226438644.16675.769.camel@localhost> <20081111215821.E48E0854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <1226446653.16675.1178.camel@localhost> <20081112042823.9E860854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1226511850.8767.423.camel@localhost> hi, i think my last method almost works -- reprinted below: alternatively one could just start mutt from within emacs -- i found a little script online that more or less does that: http://www.vinc17.org/mutt/emacs-mutt.el . i'm not sure exactly what's going on there, but i imagine it could be modified into something more like what i had above; and one would use the post-mode post.el, designed for mutt, to insert stuff into : (defun start-mutt-with-this-buffer-contents (address) (mark-whole-buffer) (interactive "M") ;; i think that's right ;; i'm pretty sure the syntax is wrong below ;; final term needs to be a listp -- not sure ;; what that means (set-buffer (apply 'make-term "Mutt" "mutt" nil address)) (switch-to-buffer "*Mutt*") ;; at this point i would hope that a mutt process would be started in ;; the new buffer & the address query could take place within mutt ;; itself. then mutt would start yet another buffer for the actual ;; message, using post.el as its mode. the address field would already ;; be set, we would just have to insert the buffer contents (post-goto-body) (yank) ) the main problem is that the input i get in the minibuffer -- stored as "address" -- is some kind of a string, while the set-buffer command asks for a list. wish i understood lisp better! matt ../Dave -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 12 19:52:55 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:52:55 -0500 Subject: a hard hardware upgrade In-Reply-To: References: <20081111153336.GY5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20081112195255.GA5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:25:39AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Good idea. Too bad that the stock is so low. > > I just tried a passively cooled GeForce 6200 with the Low Profile > plate from the FeForce 8500. Seemed to work. The plates are fairly universal for a lot of video cards. > Using the 6200 with proprietary drivers, glxgears yielded 720 FPS with > (vs 870 FPS for the on-board ATI controller with default open source > drivers. I don't think glxgears is at all meaningful for my > application but, heh, it was there. Well I have a 6200 card in this machine, and I get 1300FPS using the 173.14.09 driver. > If you mean "not meant to handle a large extra heat load" then that > would have been fine. I don't want an HTPC computer generating a lot > of heat. So that should inform my choice of video card. > Unfortunately it is hard to find out the power usage of cards. This > card did not require an extra power connector which I take as a good > sign. Good sign yes, but I think you can still draw up to around 75W from the slot alone. Also some fan designs are just awful and make a lot of noise. > I like HP. I know that you don't. My Compaq business desktops > have been mechanically well built. They feel much better than the > Dells (I know that you don't like Dell either). Compaq business desktops are very solid. Compaq and HP consumer products are terrible. In general stuff built for business is pretty solid. Dell has had some power supply issues over the last few years on laptops, but that affected both consumer and business models. My wife has her asus tabletpc, which is very much business oriented. I am impressed at the abuse that poor thing is putting up with (A few days ago it fell on the floor from the counter in the bathroom and didn't seem to mind one bit other than a few more scratches on the case). I keep expecting her to kill it, but no problems yet. > The box is easy to disassemble for service. It seems well thought-out > mechanically. Except for cooling. It seems solidly built -- the > sheet metal is heavier-gauge than on most systems. Business oriented machines need quick service since they often include service contracts. Consumer goods they don't have to care. To clean the dust out of the heatsink on the asus takes removal of two screws and a cover, then 3 screws on the fan, and you have full acess to the heatsink/heatpipe. On the compaq consumer laptop, it took removal of 27 screws, which involved removal of the keyboard, screen, speakers, optical drive, and internal frame. > These HPs are noisier than I would like. This is disappointing > because the other HPs I've had have been remarkably quiet. I think > that the noisiest part is the CPU fan. > > The chipset seems to be well supported now. I had a system with it in > the early days and there were a few oddities. Like the clock running > fast. Ubuntu 8.10 poured onto the system with no apparent box-related > problems. > > Low Profile would seem like an advantage because it gives you more > slots in SFF than full height. But requiring LP cards is rather > constraining. My other SFF boxes take full-height cards. Maybe PCIe > doesn't take to riser cards. Not sure, but requiring special cards just isn't convinient in general. > I paid a bit less than $90. They were $70 with a coupon. I thought > that was reasonable for what these are. > Bad: DDR1, Low Profile, a bit noisy > Good: SFF, Business, AMD 64, SATA, VGA and DVI-D, serial port > > Slightly older P4-based (Celeron) HPs are available now from Factory > Direct (I think). I don't care for P4s Yeah that would be a bad chouce. > I wonder what "refurbished" means when the machines come with dust > bunnies. Ehm, they checked that it powers on and appears to work? They don't think they will get a return on it if they sell it as is? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 12 21:41:29 2008 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:41:29 -0500 Subject: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? Message-ID: <1226526089.24946.1284442065@webmail.messagingengine.com> I'm angry. I'm furious. I am enraged. I have HAD IT. I've just had to kill my X server for the umpteenth time because Firefox absolutely will not respect any limits on its memory consumption. It just keeps eating and eating, and never, absolutely never, will it relinquish its claim on any memory once it's been allocated, even if you close all your tabs and windows down to the very last one. Even if you try to limit the number of Web pages open at any one time, navigate to the "wrong" site, and Firefox will suddenly slow your system down to the point where you can't even navigate to a terminal or use XKill to kill it. The only solution is killing the X server via Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, and even that doesn't work if the event queue is backed up to the point where it takes a half hour for your keystrokes to get through. Is there a way to force Firefox (and other similarly piggish applications) into some kind of memory-allocation jail where it absolutely cannot, under *any* circumstances, use more than a certain amount of memory (say, 75% of the total)? I'd rather see it crash due to starvation than freeze the system to the point where you have to kill the X server to escape. There must be *some* way to do this! With warm fuzzies (and toxic spiders) to the Firefox team, Amanda -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 12 22:26:06 2008 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:26:06 -0500 Subject: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? In-Reply-To: <1226526089.24946.1284442065-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1226526089.24946.1284442065@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20081112222606.E2116854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> see 'man ulimit' I haven't tried this, but a script like: #! /bin/sh ulimit -d 10000 ulimit -v 20000 exec real-firefox should limit it. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 12 22:59:45 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:59:45 -0500 Subject: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? In-Reply-To: <20081112222606.E2116854F0-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1226526089.24946.1284442065@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20081112222606.E2116854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <491B5FE1.30205@alteeve.com> Dave Mason wrote: > see 'man ulimit' > > I haven't tried this, but a script like: > > #! /bin/sh > ulimit -d 10000 > ulimit -v 20000 > exec real-firefox > > should limit it. > > ../Dave Also, could it possibly be flash leaking instead of FF? I find I am fine until I hit flash-heavy pages and then all bets are off. I've had to start using flashblock to be able to even navigate some sites without FF crashing on me. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 00:06:44 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:06:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? In-Reply-To: <20081112222606.E2116854F0-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1226526089.24946.1284442065@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20081112222606.E2116854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: | From: Dave Mason | exec real-firefox By real-firefox, I assume you mean the normal firefox script. That sets up a bunch of crud for the firefox binary. Since ulimits are inherited, there is no need to exec the actual binary. I have a low-grade annoyance with FireFox. It crashes on me once in a while. Using gdb on it seems to not work well. I don't have Adobe Flash so I canot blame it. I think that some to the memory used by FireFox is in the X server. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 00:56:37 2008 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:56:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? In-Reply-To: <491B5FE1.30205-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1226526089.24946.1284442065@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20081112222606.E2116854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <491B5FE1.30205@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008, Madison Kelly wrote: > Also, could it possibly be flash leaking instead of FF? If that's the case, probably should try flash player alternative: http://osflash.org/projects#flash_players BTW, ulimit should work. I think Firefox may just coredump when it fails to get the memory it wants. -- (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 01:05:33 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:05:33 -0500 Subject: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? In-Reply-To: References: <1226526089.24946.1284442065@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20081112222606.E2116854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <491B5FE1.30205@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <491B7D5D.4090508@rogers.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > > BTW, ulimit should work. I think Firefox may just coredump when it > fails to get the memory it wants. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL1qaK_A91o ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 01:23:39 2008 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:23:39 -0500 Subject: OT: 14" & 15" Monitors Message-ID: <491B819B.5080900@sympatico.ca> Do these have any use for any organizations any more? The alternative is the recycling depot. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 01:26:29 2008 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:26:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? Message-ID: Hi, I would like to find a cheap desktop for playing with Fedora 9 and Centos 5. Because the "cheap" requirement, I don't think I can get it by chosing each parts separately and configure it into a system. Beside I probably don't have the time. :-) So I looked into the choices from Canada Computers and wonder which one will have good compatibility with linux? I listed the choices below. Note: Serenity is Canada Computers' own brand, I know some model have Biostar motherboard but not sure if all of them are. - Serenity T1150, AMD Sempron LE-1150 2GHz, nVidia nForce 630a / GeForce 7050 chipset. - Serenity T1100, AMD Athlon 64 3200+, apparently some Via chipset (S3 UniChrome Graphics). - Shuttle K45PC, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200, Intel 945GC / ICH7 chipset. - Serenity T1080, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200. Intel 945GC / ICH7 Chipset. (from http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=cpl&id=170.45&sort=3) Any suggestion? BTW, suggestion to other option to get such computers are welcome, too. Although getting it from Canada Computers is somewhat preferred at this point. Thanks! -- (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 00:50:09 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:50:09 -0500 Subject: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? In-Reply-To: <20081111152313.GX5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081109214248.GA14738@waltdnes.org> <20081110235053.GB17288@waltdnes.org> <20081111152313.GX5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20081113005009.GA20463@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:23:13AM -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote > On the other hand keeping all authentication settings in one place > rather than spread throughout lots of config files is a rather good > idea. My experience was that it was still in multiple files, but in different ones than I was used to. > Sometimes what you know isn't the best solution and spending a little > effort can be worth it. Once you stop being willing to learn new ways, > you become obsolete. While I agree that PAM is useful where you need additional levels of security (e.g. a machine that allows shell logons to multiple users), I think it's overkill for the average single-user home machine. PAM actively interfered with my use of my machine, which is why I got rid of it. Someone did point out the config file to alter to solve my problem. It involved basically deleting/commenting every non-comment line in the file. So did another problem I ran into later. If I want to make my machine usable to me, I have to zap many PAM config files. That begs the question "Why bother with PAM in the first place"? And to get back to my original point... how do I learn about PAM, when just about every answer on Google and in the man page assumes that you are *NOT* using PAM? -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 02:22:24 2008 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:22:24 -0500 Subject: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? In-Reply-To: <1226526089.24946.1284442065-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1226526089.24946.1284442065@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20081112212224.381f4299.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:41:29 -0500 "Amanda Yilmaz" wrote: > I'm angry. I'm furious. I am enraged. I have HAD IT. > > ... > > Is there a way to force Firefox (and other similarly piggish > applications) into some kind of memory-allocation jail where it > absolutely cannot, under *any* circumstances, use more than a certain > amount of memory (say, 75% of the total)? I'd rather see it crash due > to starvation than freeze the system to the point where you have to kill > the X server to escape. There must be *some* way to do this! Amanda, I usually surf with Opera. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 01:32:05 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:32:05 -0500 Subject: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? In-Reply-To: <1226526089.24946.1284442065-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1226526089.24946.1284442065@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20081113013205.GB20463@waltdnes.org> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 04:41:29PM -0500, Amanda Yilmaz wrote > I'm angry. I'm furious. I am enraged. I have HAD IT. > > I've just had to kill my X server for the umpteenth time because Firefox > absolutely will not respect any limits on its memory consumption. It > just keeps eating and eating, and never, absolutely never, will it > relinquish its claim on any memory once it's been allocated, even if you > close all your tabs and windows down to the very last one. Even if you > try to limit the number of Web pages open at any one time, navigate to > the "wrong" site, and Firefox will suddenly slow your system down to the > point where you can't even navigate to a terminal or use XKill to kill > it. The only solution is killing the X server via Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, > and even that doesn't work if the event queue is backed up to the point > where it takes a half hour for your keystrokes to get through. That is a problem for some Firefox 2 users. Official support for FF2 is due to end in approx a month, and Firefox 3 will be the only supported version. You may find it worth your while to migrate now. Most users already have. Significantly cleaned up memory leaks is one of the bragging points of FF3. It was released back in in mid-June, so the pioneers (the guys with the arrows in their backs) have found the "point zero" bugs and it's already at version 3.0.4, and most add-ons have updated to support FF3. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 02:19:34 2008 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:19:34 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 8:26 PM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to find a cheap desktop for playing with Fedora 9 and Centos 5. > Because the "cheap" requirement, I don't think I can get it by chosing each > parts separately and configure it into a system. Beside I probably don't > have the time. :-) So I looked into the choices from Canada Computers and > wonder which one will have good compatibility with linux? I listed the > choices below. Note: Serenity is Canada Computers' own brand, I know some > model have Biostar motherboard but not sure if all of them are. > > - Serenity T1150, AMD Sempron LE-1150 2GHz, nVidia nForce 630a / GeForce > 7050 chipset. > - Serenity T1100, AMD Athlon 64 3200+, apparently some Via chipset (S3 > UniChrome Graphics). > - Shuttle K45PC, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200, Intel 945GC / ICH7 chipset. > - Serenity T1080, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200. Intel 945GC / ICH7 > Chipset. > > (from > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=cpl&id=170.45&sort=3) > > Any suggestion? I think any of these would be fine for fooling around with a Linux installation. I'm currently using an Old Dell P4-3GHz with 1G RAM and it works just fine for a variety of applications. I bought this box about two years ago for about $350 from Sonnam, and it's still got years more wear in it. For me, more RAM is the most important feature in a system -- almost none of the software makes use of the additional cores, and my files are all stored on a file server (another old machine -- P4-2GHz with mirrored 320G drives running open solaris) so I really don't care about local storage. If you're a big game player, a good video card and a big screen may be more important. Depends what you use the system for. Oh, and all three of my systems use CRTs that range in age from 8-12 years old. They all have powersaver modes and still work fine; the only downside is that they're heavy and they take up space. As they die, I'll replace them with flat panels, but they're fine for now. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 02:58:47 2008 From: ayilmaz-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Amanda Yilmaz) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:58:47 -0500 Subject: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? In-Reply-To: <20081113013205.GB20463-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <1226526089.24946.1284442065@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20081113013205.GB20463@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1226545127.18325.1284497635@webmail.messagingengine.com> This *is* with Firefox 3, specifically 3.0.3. (Actually, it's Debian Iceweasel, but as far as I can tell it's exactly the same thing, only using Debian's Very Special Branding.) Amanda ----- Original message ----- From: "Walter Dnes" To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:32:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 04:41:29PM -0500, Amanda Yilmaz wrote > I'm angry. I'm furious. I am enraged. I have HAD IT. > > I've just had to kill my X server for the umpteenth time because Firefox > absolutely will not respect any limits on its memory consumption. It > just keeps eating and eating, and never, absolutely never, will it > relinquish its claim on any memory once it's been allocated, even if you > close all your tabs and windows down to the very last one. Even if you > try to limit the number of Web pages open at any one time, navigate to > the "wrong" site, and Firefox will suddenly slow your system down to the > point where you can't even navigate to a terminal or use XKill to kill > it. The only solution is killing the X server via Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, > and even that doesn't work if the event queue is backed up to the point > where it takes a half hour for your keystrokes to get through. That is a problem for some Firefox 2 users. Official support for FF2 is due to end in approx a month, and Firefox 3 will be the only supported version. You may find it worth your while to migrate now. Most users already have. Significantly cleaned up memory leaks is one of the bragging points of FF3. It was released back in in mid-June, so the pioneers (the guys with the arrows in their backs) have found the "point zero" bugs and it's already at version 3.0.4, and most add-ons have updated to support FF3. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 03:29:21 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:29:21 -0500 Subject: OT: 14" & 15" Monitors In-Reply-To: <491B819B.5080900-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <491B819B.5080900@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0811121929y17d8d895y23cd820e6e01b047@mail.gmail.com> LCD or CRT? I'd imagine we might use LCD's. Heck, I would too as a secondary. CRT's aren't very popular anymore though. On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 8:23 PM, John Moniz wrote: > Do these have any use for any organizations any more? The alternative is the > recycling depot. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 04:55:20 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:55:20 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <491BB338.7080003@rogers.com> S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to find a cheap desktop for playing with Fedora 9 and > Centos 5. Because the "cheap" requirement, I don't think I can get it by > chosing each parts separately and configure it into a system. Beside I > probably don't have the time. :-) So I looked into the choices from > Canada Computers and wonder which one will have good compatibility with > linux? I listed the choices below. Note: Serenity is Canada Computers' > own brand, I know some model have Biostar motherboard but not sure if > all of them are. > > I think that you will have the best experience with this one: Serenity T1080, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200. Intel 945GC / ICH7 Chipset. According to the website it has an Intel motherboard and an open PCIe slot which could be used for a better graphics card if you wish. HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 05:30:20 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:30:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: S P Arif Sahari Wibowo | I would like to find a cheap desktop for playing with Fedora 9 and Centos 5. Really cheap: buy off lease. See my message to the list of about 24 hours ago. Not perfect! Alternative: follow freecycle or craigslist for a cheap or free discard. Problem: you probably should consider 1G a minimum although 512M will certainly work. The only cheap RAM these days is DDR2 so that eliminates many older boxes. This approach is perhaps too demanding of time. | - Serenity T1150, AMD Sempron LE-1150 2GHz, nVidia nForce 630a / GeForce 7050 | chipset. | - Serenity T1100, AMD Athlon 64 3200+, apparently some Via chipset (S3 | UniChrome Graphics). | - Shuttle K45PC, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200, Intel 945GC / ICH7 chipset. | - Serenity T1080, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200. Intel 945GC / ICH7 Chipset. | | (from | http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=cpl&id=170.45&sort=3) | | Any suggestion? I would avoid anything named UniChrome. Historically there were no decent open source drivers. I don't know if that has changed. The K45PC is nice and small but has no optical drive and no apparent way to add one internally. The T1150 and T1080 seem fine, for all I know. The Semperon LE-1150 appears to be single core. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Sempron_microprocessors The Celeron E1200 appears to be dual core. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Celeron_microprocessors So the processors seem close enough to not matter much. Dual core is a bonus. The T1080 has a larger disk. So: the T1080 is better but the T1080 is less expensive. Your call. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 13:01:52 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:01:52 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <491C2540.1000108@alteeve.com> If you are interested in a little extra work for a machine that would be very low power, I'd recommend something based on the new Intel Atom CPU. It's what is in my laptop (ASUS Eee PC1000h) and I use it as my daily driver. Not the strongest video, but otherwise I've had no performance complaints at all. If you want a canned machine, look at the ASUS Eee Box. If you want to save more money, take a look at (parts linked from mini-box.com): http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-120-power-kit?sc=8&category=13 - $54.49 - 12vDC 120w DC/DC PSU w/ adapter http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/it.A/id.438/.f?sc=8&category=13 - $0.99 - Expansion slot adapter for PicoPSU http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-D945GCLF2-Mini-ITX-Motherboard?sc=8&category=100 - $89.00 - Dual Core Intel Atom 1.6GHz, Gbit, DDR2 533MHz 2GB (Above in USD) http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=018399&cid=RAM.187.844 - $35.99 - 2GB DDR2 800MHz http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=013168&cid=HD.443.877 - $69.99 - 500GB 7,200rpm Hitachi SATA2 drive (~24w) (Above in CND) I didn't look at a case as I've got alternate plans for these parts. Unlike the Eee Box or PC1000h, the above mainboard gets you a dual-core. All in, you are looking at about 50w power draw under normal load, if I did my math right. The only thing I would warn is that, being a new chipset, the onboard NIC can require a little finagling to get going. Under Ubuntu I just downloaded a readily-available custom kernel and I would very much suspect FC9 will have similar, if not supported out of the box. CentOS 5 may be a bit more tricky, but heck, even Debian supports the chipset with a little how-to reading. The trick isn't the drivers, they work with open source code (no need for NDISWRAPPER) and are supported by recent kernels, you just need a kernel with the support enabled. Best of lucck however you go! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 14:06:09 2008 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:06:09 -0500 Subject: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? In-Reply-To: References: <1226526089.24946.1284442065@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20081112222606.E2116854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20081113140609.08376854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> | From: Dave Mason | exec real-firefox >"D. Hugh Redelmeier" writes: > By real-firefox, I assume you mean the normal firefox script. That > sets up a bunch of crud for the firefox binary. Yes. > Since ulimits are inherited, there is no need to exec the actual > binary. It saves a shell process hanging around. Consider it a twitch from when it mattered that I usually exec in such wrapper scripts. ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 14:30:33 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:30:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? In-Reply-To: <20081113140609.08376854F0-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1226526089.24946.1284442065@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20081112222606.E2116854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <20081113140609.08376854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: | From: Dave Mason | It saves a shell process hanging around. Consider it a twitch from when | it mattered that I usually exec in such wrapper scripts. Understood. I'm trying to catch to crashes. So I do this in an xterm window: $ script possible-firefox-crash.typescript47 $ ulimit -c 20000 # allow core dumps. $ date ; firefox --sync ; date For various reasons, this hasn't been very satisfactory. - fedora's debug symbol downloader was broken for a while (probably due to their repository changover) - firefox often bails with no core dump (it decides to suicide rather than crash) - I sometimes forget to start it up this way - the typescript has no timestamps so I don't know which logged messages appeared close in time to the termination. Here's a tail of the most recent capture (probably not an OOM problem): GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: plugin_in_pipe_callback return GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: plugin_in_pipe_callback GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: plugin_in_pipe_callback: setting status Dispose: applet not destroyed. PIPE: plugin read: status Destroy: applet not stopped. GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: plugin_in_pipe_callback return GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: plugin_in_pipe_callback GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: plugin_in_pipe_callback: setting status Dispose: applet not destroyed. PIPE: plugin read: status Dispose: applet not destroyed. GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: plugin_in_pipe_callback return GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: GCJ_Destroy GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: plugin_send_message_to_appletviewer PIPE: appletviewer read: destroy PIPE: plugin wrote: destroy GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: plugin_send_message_to_appletviewer return GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: plugin_stop_appletviewer GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: plugin_stop_appletviewer return GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: plugin_data_destroy GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: GCJ_New: deleting output fifo: /home/hugh/.gcjwebplugin/gcj-instance-10770-0-plugin-to-appletviewer GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: GCJ_New: deleted output fifo: /home/hugh/.gcjwebplugin/gcj-instance-10770-0-plugin-to-appletviewer GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: GCJ_New: deleting input fifo: /home/hugh/.gcjwebplugin/gcj-instance-10770-0-appletviewer-to-plugin GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: GCJ_New: deleted input fifo: /home/hugh/.gcjwebplugin/gcj-instance-10770-0-appletviewer-to-plugin GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: plugin_data_destroy return GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: GCJ_Destroy return GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: NP_Shutdown GCJ PLUGIN: thread 0xb82590: NP_Shutdown return PIPE: appletviewer read: shutdown APPLETVIEWER: exiting appletviewer The program 'firefox' received an X Window System error. This probably reflects a bug in the program. The error was 'BadIDChoice (invalid resource ID chosen for this connection)'. (Details: serial 139381220 error_code 14 request_code 148 minor_code 4) (Note to programmers: normally, X errors are reported asynchronously; that is, you will receive the error a while after causing it. To debug your program, run it with the --sync command line option to change this behavior. You can then get a meaningful backtrace from your debugger if you break on the gdk_x_error() function.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 03:37:18 2008 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:37:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008, Alex Beamish wrote: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 8:26 PM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo >> (from >> http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=cpl&id=170.45&sort=3) > > I think any of these would be fine for fooling around with a > Linux installation. Thanks. I just worried that any of the chipsets doesn't have driver in the kernel (2.6.18) yet. Also if there is known issue with Biostar motherboard. > I'm currently using an Old Dell P4-3GHz with 1G RAM and it > works just fine for a variety of applications. Yeah, old machine will be fine. Unfortunately I am not sure where I can get my hand on old good machine. I actually worried that those from Canada Computers are too new. Thanks! -- (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 15:41:33 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:41:33 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paul, I want to pitch in on this also. I think Madison suggestion is very good. Centos 5 should be able to run on those laptops petty easily. You also end up having a hardware you can use for long in other ways - laptops tend to retain their value better - , instead of equally weak towers from Canada computes. You help environment too If you really have to buy a tower, just buy a certified hardware. Far much cheaper as you can pick it without OS and a peace of mind knowing it WILL work. See a one here http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/pedge_t105?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd That may not be your taste, so you can also look here for other options https://hardware.redhat.com/list.cgi?version=5&cf_internal_whiteboard=Server&cf_internal_whiteboard=Desktop%2FWorkstation&cf_internal_whiteboard=Laptop&showall=1 Regards, William Sorry for top posting! 2008/11/12 S P Arif Sahari Wibowo : > On Wed, 12 Nov 2008, Alex Beamish wrote: > >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 8:26 PM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo >>> >>> (from >>> http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=cpl&id=170.45&sort=3) >> >> I think any of these would be fine for fooling around with a Linux >> installation. > > Thanks. I just worried that any of the chipsets doesn't have driver in the > kernel (2.6.18) yet. Also if there is known issue with Biostar motherboard. > >> I'm currently using an Old Dell P4-3GHz with 1G RAM and it works just fine >> for a variety of applications. > > Yeah, old machine will be fine. Unfortunately I am not sure where I can get > my hand on old good machine. I actually worried that those from Canada > Computers are too new. > > Thanks! > > -- > (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo > _____ _____ _____ _____ > /____ /____/ /____/ /____ > _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 17:59:38 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:59:38 -0500 Subject: scripting a GUI app Message-ID: <1226599179.6302.38.camel@jaguar-hardy> Greetings, All. I am looking at calling OpenOffice, as one step within a longer process, to edit a particular document. `soffice `, whether executed from a bash command line or a system() call, returns to the caller real fast. How can I make the caller wait for the user to close the document? Obviously--well, I think is obvious, maybe, perhaps--I could invent a mechanism to handle this, but surely I should not have to. And I would expect a similar issue with any GUI application that can open multiple documents. Do you have hints? Nothing in the first three pages of Google search gui wait completion "close document" linux jumps out at me. Thanks, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 19:33:00 2008 From: dmason-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w at public.gmane.org (Dave Mason) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:33:00 -0500 Subject: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? In-Reply-To: References: <1226526089.24946.1284442065@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20081112222606.E2116854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <20081113140609.08376854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20081113193300.658A9854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Hugh wrote: > $ script possible-firefox-crash.typescript47 > $ ulimit -c 20000 # allow core dumps. > $ date ; firefox --sync ; date > > For various reasons, this hasn't been very satisfactory. > > - the typescript has no timestamps so I don't know which logged > messages appeared close in time to the termination. man script says: -f Flush output after each write. This is nice for telecooperation: One person does 'mkfifo foo; script -f foo' and another can supervise real-time what is being done using 'cat foo'. -t Output timeing data to standard error. This data contains two fields, separated by a space.... So you could try the -t option, though you'd have to parse it, and it's pretty ugly. Better: $ mkfifo foo.fifo $ while read x;do echo `date`: "$x";done foo.dated & $ script -f foo.fifo $ .... $ rm foo.fifo ../Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 23:14:09 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:14:09 -0500 Subject: ubuntu / I-INC Message-ID: <491CB4C1.80705@chrisaitken.net> I just bought an I-INC 28" LCD display. I have a KVM switch between an XP box and an Ubuntu 8.04. The XP box is running the display at 1600 X 1200 at 32-bit. It looks great. My apps show as the size I had before but I can fit more of 'em on the screen - exactly what I want. Linux, however, is only offering 800 X 600 and 640 X 480 at a pathetic 60 or 56 Hz. How can I correct this? I respectfully ask please not to suggest a newer version installation of linux. I moved all most of my work (except I have XP to run recording software since alsa still can't fully "get" the E-MU 1212m pci card) precisely to get away from the re-boot/re-install mentality of Microsoft. Thanks, Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 13 23:36:35 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:36:35 -0500 Subject: ubuntu / I-INC In-Reply-To: <491CB4C1.80705-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <491CB4C1.80705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <491CBA03.3020404@rogers.com> Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > I just bought an I-INC 28" LCD display. I have a KVM switch between an > XP box and an Ubuntu 8.04. The XP box is running the display at 1600 X > 1200 at 32-bit. It looks great. My apps show as the size I had before > but I can fit more of 'em on the screen - exactly what I want. > > Linux, however, is only offering 800 X 600 and 640 X 480 at a pathetic > 60 or 56 Hz. How can I correct this? I respectfully ask please not to > suggest a newer version installation of linux. I moved all most of my > work (except I have XP to run recording software since alsa still > can't fully "get" the E-MU 1212m pci card) precisely to get away from > the re-boot/re-install mentality of Microsoft. Two suggestions: 1) Get the monitor and Ubuntu working as you want them with a direct connection. That is, no KVM switch. 2) Always boot a system so that it has the monitor. Good luck Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 00:01:20 2008 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:01:20 -0500 Subject: OT: 14" & 15" Monitors In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0811121929y17d8d895y23cd820e6e01b047-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <491B819B.5080900@sympatico.ca> <3a97ef0811121929y17d8d895y23cd820e6e01b047@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <491CBFD0.3070406@sympatico.ca> Sorry, they are CRT's. You just had to know that, right? LCD's would have been too good to be true. Tyler Aviss wrote: > LCD or CRT? > I'd imagine we might use LCD's. Heck, I would too as a secondary. > > CRT's aren't very popular anymore though. > > > > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 8:23 PM, John Moniz wrote: > >> Do these have any use for any organizations any more? The alternative is the >> recycling depot. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 00:09:57 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:09:57 -0500 Subject: ubuntu / I-INC In-Reply-To: <491CB4C1.80705-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <491CB4C1.80705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <491CC1D5.3060109@rogers.com> Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Linux, however, is only offering 800 X 600 and 640 X 480 at a pathetic > 60 or 56 Hz. How can I correct this? You will have to edit your X.org conf file and add "1600X1200" as the first resolution for all instances in the Screen section of your file. As an example here is mine where I had to add the 1440X900 resoultion. Also note that the refresh rate for LCD monitors is 60Hz. ******************************** Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Card0" Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultColorDepth 16 SubSection "Display" Depth 8 Modes "1440x900""1280x1024" "1024x768" "800x600" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 15 Modes "1440x900""1280x1024" "1024x768" "800x600" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "1440x900""1280x1024" "1024x768" "800x600" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "1440x900""1280x1024" "1024x768" "800x600" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 32 Modes "1440x900""1280x1024" "1024x768" "800x600" EndSubSection HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 00:38:49 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:38:49 -0500 Subject: ubuntu / I-INC In-Reply-To: <491CB4C1.80705-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <491CB4C1.80705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <491CC899.9000904@dinamis.com> Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > I just bought an I-INC 28" LCD display. I have a KVM switch between an > XP box and an Ubuntu 8.04. The XP box is running the display at 1600 X > 1200 at 32-bit. It looks great. My apps show as the size I had before > but I can fit more of 'em on the screen - exactly what I want. > > Linux, however, is only offering 800 X 600 and 640 X 480 at a pathetic > 60 or 56 Hz. How can I correct this? I respectfully ask please not to > suggest a newer version installation of linux. I moved all most of my > work (except I have XP to run recording software since alsa still can't > fully "get" the E-MU 1212m pci card) precisely to get away from the > re-boot/re-install mentality of Microsoft. The problem is Ubuntu, not Linux per se. I find X configuration in Ubuntu is an adventure. I'm doing preseed installations onto systems that have vanilla Intel graphics chipsets with ancient 15" CRT monitors and more often than not, silly Ubuntu will be running at 1280x768 without having auto-detected the monitor. I now have the dance down, mostly. I pick the right monitor in the control panel, log out, restart X, which invariably fails so I have restart the machine, log in, and set the resolution to 1024x768. If I'm foolish enough to pick the right monitor and set the resolution to 1024x768 right away, the display will go dark and I'll lose control of the keyboard (number and caps lock don't work) and the machine will even become unresponsive to pings or ssh log ins. I'll have to do a hard reset and then run xfix in "recovery" mode but I must remember *not* to resume booting to the GUI after "xfix" has done its thing. I must remember to reboot the machine. The above will usually work, at least until the first power failure when the machine has a dirty shutdown and the resolution will be whatever Ubuntu seems to think it should be when it comes back up, which is not the same thing as what I had set it to be or anything sensible. On those occasions, the symptom will be that the display will pan because the virtual desktop will be larger than the viewport. If I'm lucky, I'll be able to set the resolution to what it should be without fuss but usually, I'll have to go through the dance above. This happens with 7.10 (with Nvidia and Intel chipsets on a variety of older monitors) and 8.04 (with Intel chipsets on a variety of older monitors). For a distro that is supposedly so user-friendly, nonsense like this is just maddening. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3273 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 00:38:04 2008 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:38:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: scripting a GUI app In-Reply-To: <1226599179.6302.38.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <1226599179.6302.38.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Nov 2008, Terrence Enger wrote: > I am looking at calling OpenOffice, as one step within a > longer process, to edit a particular document. `soffice > `, whether executed from a bash command line or a > system() call, returns to the caller real fast. How can I > make the caller wait for the user to close the document? I think the designed way of OpenOffice.org talking to external program is through UNO. Basically you run OpenOffice.org as a server, then have the external script / program connect to that server through the UNO mechanism. You can control and monitor almost all thing about OpenOffice.org. In your case, if you just need to know whether the OpenOffice.org still there, maybe you can just do opening inquiry to that port. Or ideally the script can actually find out if the particular file still open (user may just close the file without quiting). Here is the list of OpenOffice.org UNO implementation: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Uno/Implementations > And I would expect a similar issue with any GUI application > that can open multiple documents. For other application withough defined interface, probably the only way is for the script do ps to find if the application still there. -- (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 01:20:35 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:20:35 -0500 Subject: ubuntu / I-INC In-Reply-To: <491CBA03.3020404-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <491CB4C1.80705@chrisaitken.net> <491CBA03.3020404@rogers.com> Message-ID: <491CD263.2020108@chrisaitken.net> Stephen wrote: > Mr Chris Aitken wrote: >> I just bought an I-INC 28" LCD display. I have a KVM switch between >> an XP box and an Ubuntu 8.04. The XP box is running the display at >> 1600 X 1200 at 32-bit. It looks great. My apps show as the size I had >> before but I can fit more of 'em on the screen - exactly what I want. >> >> Linux, however, is only offering 800 X 600 and 640 X 480 at a >> pathetic 60 or 56 Hz. How can I correct this? I respectfully ask >> please not to suggest a newer version installation of linux. I moved >> all most of my work (except I have XP to run recording software since >> alsa still can't fully "get" the E-MU 1212m pci card) precisely to >> get away from the re-boot/re-install mentality of Microsoft. > Two suggestions: > > 1) Get the monitor and Ubuntu working as you want them with a direct > connection. That is, no KVM switch. > > 2) Always boot a system so that it has the monitor. Aaah, I'm glad I mentioned the KVM switch (and I'm glad you picked up on it). Your idea to boot with no KVM switch was a good one because it made me realize that I haven't been giving linux a chance to see the new display (even if only through the KVM switch). What I think I have been doing is booting the XP box at the same time as the linux box. So, what I think happened was I start the linux box, then KVM-switch to the XP box (booting), so the XP box gets to see the new display, but the linux box never gets to see the display and offers me a couple of measly resolutions. Anyway, you inspired me to KVM-switch to the linux box, restart linux and patiently watch while it completely booted. It did see the display through the KVM switch and offered me all kinds of resolutions. So, I didn't have to boot without the KVM switch - though I did need to boot to linux while KVM-switched to linux and let it finish its boot. I don't really know which Resolution is best but I chose one that lets me run a bunch of applications at a nice size and doesn't hide the panel on me. I chose 1280 X 960. However, the only Refresh offered is 60 Hz which is kind of lame. Oh well, I have most of what I want now. Thanks - what do you want on your pizza? And can you come to Timmins to collect it? :) Chris > > Good luck > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 01:28:49 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:28:49 -0500 Subject: ubuntu / I-INC In-Reply-To: <491CC1D5.3060109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <491CB4C1.80705@chrisaitken.net> <491CC1D5.3060109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <491CD451.1090705@chrisaitken.net> John McGregor wrote: > Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > >> Linux, however, is only offering 800 X 600 and 640 X 480 at a >> pathetic 60 or 56 Hz. How can I correct this? > > You will have to edit your X.org conf file and add "1600X1200" as the > first resolution for all instances in the Screen section of your file. Looks like I don't have to do that. Though it's not rocket science, I have never had much luck editing that file. I guess I'll just make sure that whenever I boot to linux that I am KVM-switched to that computer as well. I do understand (Correctly, I hope) that if I wanted to boot to a given resolution every time (regardless of where the KVM switch's attention is) I would have to edit that file. > As an example here is mine where I had to add the 1440X900 resoultion. > Also note that the refresh rate for LCD monitors is 60Hz. Is that a limitation of LCD monitors? I could certainly get better refresh rates out of my CRT monitors. Thanks for your help. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 01:43:25 2008 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:43:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: <491C2540.1000108-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <491C2540.1000108@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Nov 2008, Madison Kelly wrote: > If you are interested in a little extra work for a machine > that would be very low power, Well, in this case I actually just looking for a machine which is "easy going", in the sense of easy to get, easy to install, easy to the pocket. :-) > I'd recommend something based on the new Intel Atom CPU. It's > what is in my laptop (ASUS Eee PC1000h) and I use it as my > daily driver. Thanks. I actually did think about getting such NetBook, but actually worries me that such new machines will have issue in installing standard distribution linux. Plus those laptop has no CD drive, while I am yet to master creating bootable memory key (I don't even have any USB key! Although I do have some SD card and USD SD card readed, which can function as USB key). > The only thing I would warn is that, being a new chipset, the > onboard NIC can require a little finagling to get going. Yeah, that's my worst worry. Thanks! -- (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 01:55:21 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:55:21 -0500 Subject: ubuntu / I-INC In-Reply-To: <491CD263.2020108-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <491CB4C1.80705@chrisaitken.net> <491CBA03.3020404@rogers.com> <491CD263.2020108@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <491CDA89.3060008@rogers.com> Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Aaah, I'm glad I mentioned the KVM switch (and I'm glad you picked up > on it). Would you be surprised to know that I use a KVM switch to switch between Ubuntu and XP? :) > Thanks - what do you want on your pizza? And can you come to Timmins > to collect it? Some day. I am doing some work for Xstrata right now. They have an office in Quebec not too far from you. Cheers Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 02:06:53 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:06:53 -0500 Subject: scripting a GUI app In-Reply-To: References: <1226599179.6302.38.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <1226628413.6302.40.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 19:38 -0500, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Thu, 13 Nov 2008, Terrence Enger wrote: > > I am looking at calling OpenOffice, as one step within a > > longer process, to edit a particular document. `soffice > > `, whether executed from a bash command line or a > > system() call, returns to the caller real fast. How can I > > make the caller wait for the user to close the document? > > I think the designed way of OpenOffice.org talking to external > program is through UNO. Basically you run OpenOffice.org as a > server, then have the external script / program connect to that > server through the UNO mechanism. You can control and monitor > almost all thing about OpenOffice.org. > > In your case, if you just need to know whether the > OpenOffice.org still there, maybe you can just do opening > inquiry to that port. Or ideally the script can actually find > out if the particular file still open (user may just close the > file without quiting). > > Here is the list of OpenOffice.org UNO implementation: > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Uno/Implementations > > > And I would expect a similar issue with any GUI application > > that can open multiple documents. > > For other application withough defined interface, probably the > only way is for the script do ps to find if the application > still there. > Thank you. I was afraid it would be something like that. Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 02:20:47 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:20:47 -0500 Subject: OT: 14" & 15" Monitors In-Reply-To: <491B819B.5080900-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <491B819B.5080900@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 11/12/08, John Moniz wrote: > Do these have any use for any organizations any more? The alternative is > the recycling depot. Get in touch with Robert Maguire at Canada Geeks - rtlm1950-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org . This is a group that is putting old systems into the hands of folks who would not be able to afford computers. Last weekend they sent out 48 machines, a number I know well, as I did a series brief introductory leasons on Ubuntu to those who were getting the used machines :-) . The Canada Geeks folks also have deals going with scrap dealers, so if a piece of equipment is total useless they can still get a few cents per pound to support the work they are doing... Bottom line, 14" & 15" monitors might not be top priority for the Canada Geeks folks, but they would be interested in them. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 03:35:14 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:35:14 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: <491C2540.1000108@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 8:43 PM, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Thu, 13 Nov 2008, Madison Kelly wrote: >> >> If you are interested in a little extra work for a machine that would be >> very low power, > > Well, in this case I actually just looking for a machine which is "easy > going", in the sense of easy to get, easy to install, easy to the pocket. > :-) > >> I'd recommend something based on the new Intel Atom CPU. It's what is in >> my laptop (ASUS Eee PC1000h) and I use it as my daily driver. > > Thanks. I actually did think about getting such NetBook, but actually > worries me that such new machines will have issue in installing standard > distribution linux. Plus those laptop has no CD drive, while I am yet to > master creating bootable memory key (I don't even have any USB key! Although > I do have some SD card and USD SD card readed, which can function as USB > key). I'm running *bog standard* Ubuntu on my Acer AspireOne netbook. I used an external CD drive to install it... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 15:57:07 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:57:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: <491C2540.1000108@alteeve.com> Message-ID: | From: S P Arif Sahari Wibowo | Plus those laptop has no CD drive, while I am yet to master creating | bootable memory key (I don't even have any USB key! Although I do have some SD | card and USD SD card readed, which can function as USB key). The latest Ubuntu (8.10) includes a tool for making a bootable USB flash memory from any bootable CD or DVD. Just for fun, I made a bootable microSD from the Ubuntu installation CD. I've used it to install Ubuntu on another machine, so it seems to work. The tool offers to create a second filesystem on the device to persistently store data from any live system on the device. I think that the release notes say that this part isn't working properly. I had been too lazy to figure out how to make bootable UBS filesystems until this fell into my lap(top). Since you don't seem to have a running Linux machine, this probably doesn't really address your problem. Perhaps this tool can work from the live Ubuntu CD, if only for making a bootable USB version of itself. Tricky: the CD would have to be in the optical drive to serve two purposes at the same time: home of the currently running system and master for copying to the USB memory. Thinking like a player of Towers of Hanoi, I guess that you could create a bootable USB memory of Ubuntu and use that to make a bootable USB memory of another CD. This would require two USB memories: one for Ubuntu and one for the other CD. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 16:19:57 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:19:57 -0500 Subject: How do you force Firefox to not eat all your memory? In-Reply-To: <20081113193300.658A9854F0-bqArmZWzea/GcjXNFnLQ/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1226526089.24946.1284442065@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20081112222606.E2116854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <20081113140609.08376854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> <20081113193300.658A9854F0@sarg.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280811140819pc0a1d21qb36073530166f3d2@mail.gmail.com> Hey Amanda. I'd second the vote to look into the possibility that it's Flash causing the problems. I didn't like Flashblock much and have gone with NoScript instead. It's a pain in the ass initially as you have to re-enable scripts on pages you use a lot that are now broken because NoScript has shut down the entire page, but it blocks so many lovely things (like image bugs and unnecessary JS) that I love it despite that. I leave the majority of Flash turned off, only turning on the bits that I want. With this arrangement, Iceweasel has been almost completely stable on Debian amd64 despite running the 32-bit Flash plugin in a wrapper (this arrangement has a very bad rep online - and yet I've had no problems). Please let us know what works for you - I'd like to know as I've had problems with FF in the past. And I doubt I'm the only one who wants to know. Good luck. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 19:39:39 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:39:39 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: <491C2540.1000108@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20081114193939.GA30261@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 10:57:07AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >| From: S P Arif Sahari Wibowo > >| Plus those laptop has no CD drive, while I am yet to master creating >| bootable memory key (I don't even have any USB key! Although I do have some SD >| card and USD SD card readed, which can function as USB key). > >The latest Ubuntu (8.10) includes a tool for making a bootable USB flash >memory from any bootable CD or DVD. - snip - >Since you don't seem to have a running Linux machine, this probably >doesn't really address your problem. Perhaps this tool can work from >the live Ubuntu CD, if only for making a bootable USB version of >itself. Tricky: the CD would have to be in the optical drive to >serve two purposes at the same time: home of the currently running >system and master for copying to the USB memory. This tools is also available on Windows - you can use it to put ISO files for discs onto USB media, cards or sticks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 21:08:01 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:08:01 -0500 Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source Message-ID: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29130 -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 21:49:16 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:49:16 -0500 Subject: ubuntu / I-INC In-Reply-To: <491CDA89.3060008-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <491CB4C1.80705@chrisaitken.net> <491CBA03.3020404@rogers.com> <491CD263.2020108@chrisaitken.net> <491CDA89.3060008@rogers.com> Message-ID: <491DF25C.1040603@chrisaitken.net> Stephen wrote: > Mr Chris Aitken wrote: >> Aaah, I'm glad I mentioned the KVM switch (and I'm glad you picked up >> on it). > Would you be surprised to know that I use a KVM switch to switch > between Ubuntu and XP? :) >> Thanks - what do you want on your pizza? And can you come to Timmins >> to collect it? > > Some day. > > I am doing some work for Xstrata right now. They have an office in > Quebec not too far from you. Well, I think they have a mine site just outside Timmins as well. I think that's the one that's got the layoff going on. I guess you know that this is a mining town. When there's layoffs we all feel it. In Timmins you are either feeding at that trough or serving the people that feed at that trough. Chris > > Cheers > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 22:54:52 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:54:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: "Vista Capable" lawsuit Message-ID: [Not really Linux related, except in a "know your competitor" kind of way.] I was reading Valleywag.com for the first time because I heard that it is being eliminated. One item included a link to this court document that I found a model of clarity. It convincingly argues that Microsoft mislead customers in an egregious way. http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/valleywag/2008/11/vistajudgement.pdf -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 14 22:54:51 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:54:51 -0500 Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source In-Reply-To: <491DE8B1.9000502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> Message-ID: <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27@sciguy.vex.net> > http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29130 > -- They have the best satirists. You have to read all the way to near the end to get this gem: "Because all integers and natural numbers derive from one and zero, Microsoft may, by extension, lay claim to ownership of all mathematics and logic systems, including Euclidean geometry, pulleys and levers, gravity, and the basic Newtonian principles of motion, as well as the concepts of existence and nonexistence," Yale University theoretical mathematics professor J. Edmund Lattimore said. "In other words, pretty much everything." Lattimore said that the only mathematical constructs of which Microsoft may not be able to claim ownership are infinity and transcendental numbers like pi. Microsoft lawyers are expected to file liens on infinity and pi this week. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 15 04:45:32 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:45:32 -0500 Subject: OT: 14" & 15" Monitors In-Reply-To: <491CBFD0.3070406-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <491B819B.5080900@sympatico.ca> <3a97ef0811121929y17d8d895y23cd820e6e01b047@mail.gmail.com> <491CBFD0.3070406@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0811142045hfbe69f4qedd793bc14001587@mail.gmail.com> They would have been. Mind you, awhile back there were a couple of Craigslist entries with college kids leaving and selling their old 15" LCD's for around $15... Either it was too good to be true, or I was too slow, because I never got a response to my email. Sometimes luck trumps TGTBT :-) On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 7:01 PM, John Moniz wrote: > Sorry, they are CRT's. You just had to know that, right? LCD's would have > been too good to be true. > > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> LCD or CRT? >> I'd imagine we might use LCD's. Heck, I would too as a secondary. >> >> CRT's aren't very popular anymore though. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 8:23 PM, John Moniz >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Do these have any use for any organizations any more? The alternative is >>> the >>> recycling depot. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 15 05:01:46 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:01:46 -0500 Subject: "Vista Capable" lawsuit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a97ef0811142101h8963881j577a6b6fbaf8521e@mail.gmail.com> It's actually a pretty interesting read. Sounds like a lot of the developers and project teams were really sticking with the requirements for the sticker (Vista Certification), only to get steamrolled near the end by a collusion and agreement between sales-drones of MS and those in Intel lobbying them to alter the spec to allow sub-par hardware. It's pretty sad, because MS seems to have a lot of talent and I really wouldn't be surprised to see that a lot of the issues they run into are marketdroids overruling IT common-sense. On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 5:54 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > [Not really Linux related, except in a "know your competitor" kind of > way.] > > I was reading Valleywag.com for the first time because I heard that it is > being eliminated. One item included a link to this court document that I > found a model of clarity. It convincingly argues that Microsoft mislead > customers in an egregious way. > http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/valleywag/2008/11/vistajudgement.pdf > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 15 13:04:39 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 08:04:39 -0500 Subject: "Vista Capable" lawsuit In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0811142101h8963881j577a6b6fbaf8521e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0811142101h8963881j577a6b6fbaf8521e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <491EC8E7.4060305@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > It's actually a pretty interesting read. Sounds like a lot of the > developers and project teams were really sticking with the > requirements for the sticker (Vista Certification), only to get > steamrolled near the end by a collusion and agreement between > sales-drones of MS and those in Intel lobbying them to alter the spec > to allow sub-par hardware. > > It's pretty sad, because MS seems to have a lot of talent and I really > wouldn't be surprised to see that a lot of the issues they run into > are marketdroids overruling IT common-sense. > Take a look at how IE is embedded in Windows. At one time, it was a separate app, just like Netscape. Then when MS was hauled into court over bundling, they claimed IE was part of the OS and couldn't be removed. At that time, it was a lie, but come next version of Windows, it was deeply tied in. As a result, bugs in IE became bugs in Windows, with all the infamous problems we here about. Incidentally, here's some interesting reading: http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/microsoft/IhateMS.html -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 15 14:36:27 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 09:36:27 -0500 Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source In-Reply-To: <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811150636w79796c84r8bda28fa94e80ce9@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Paul King wrote: >> http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29130 >> -- [...] > Lattimore said that the only mathematical constructs of which Microsoft > may not be able to claim ownership are infinity and transcendental numbers > like pi. Microsoft lawyers are expected to file liens on infinity and pi > this week. Looks like they forgot about the set of transfinite numbers. (Good business opportunity here! ;-) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 16 15:31:02 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:31:02 -0500 Subject: ubuntu sound to hi-fi amplifier Message-ID: <49203CB6.7000805@rogers.com> I am very happy with my main sound system having Ubuntu on a PS3 as source. Now I would like to hook up my office Ubuntu computer to my amplifier in my office hi-fi system. The computer is a typical Intel based system. I am currently using the sound chip on the mother board with analogue output to computer speakers. I would prefer a digital optical sound feed. Has anyone done this? Would I need a sound card? I am really just wanting to read the binary music file and send it in binary form to the receiver. My Google search results in many hits about peoples problems with sound cards in general. I will keep digging, but if anyone has done this, I would like to hear about it. Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 16 17:27:42 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 12:27:42 -0500 Subject: ubuntu sound to hi-fi amplifier In-Reply-To: <49203CB6.7000805-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49203CB6.7000805@rogers.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811160927x2774a633t7830360a5ca46583@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Stephen wrote: > I am very happy with my main sound system having Ubuntu on a PS3 as source. > > Now I would like to hook up my office Ubuntu computer to my amplifier in my > office hi-fi system. The computer is a typical Intel based system. I am > currently using the sound chip on the mother board with analogue output to > computer speakers. > > I would prefer a digital optical sound feed. > > Has anyone done this? > > Would I need a sound card? I am really just wanting to read the binary music > file and send it in binary form to the receiver. > > My Google search results in many hits about peoples problems with sound > cards in general. > > I will keep digging, but if anyone has done this, I would like to hear about > it. I can't speak to an optical feed, but at home I often connect my PC to the home stereo through the PC speakers headphone jack using a 3.5mm To Dual RCA (... a "Y") cable similar to the one shown at: http://www.shoptronics.com/sthe3pltodur.html It should support any standard audio output from a PC. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 16 19:15:01 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:15:01 -0500 Subject: ubuntu sound to hi-fi amplifier In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0811160927x2774a633t7830360a5ca46583-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49203CB6.7000805@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0811160927x2774a633t7830360a5ca46583@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49207135.3000604@rogers.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > I can't speak to an optical feed, but at home I often connect my PC to > the home stereo through the PC speakers headphone jack using a 3.5mm > To Dual RCA (... a "Y") cable similar to the one shown at: > > http://www.shoptronics.com/sthe3pltodur.html > > It should support any standard audio output from a PC. > I don't want the digital to analogue conversion being performed on the computer. What does the chip cost? $1. My amplifier has a much better quality DAC than anything I would expect to find in a computer sound card, so that is why I am looking for digital out. Thanks for the reply! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 16 19:36:57 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:36:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: ubuntu sound to hi-fi amplifier In-Reply-To: <49207135.3000604-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49203CB6.7000805@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0811160927x2774a633t7830360a5ca46583@mail.gmail.com> <49207135.3000604@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Stephen | My amplifier has a much better quality DAC than anything I would expect to | find in a computer sound card, so that is why I am looking for digital out. Some motherboards have S/PDIF outs and some don't. Usually (I think) they are RCA jacks with an orange core. My only modern desktop with an Intel chipset has such a jack. I think that few motherboards have TOSLINK (i.e. optical). My AppleTV does (and no S/PDIF). I guess that you should read the manual for your motherboard. Many cheap soundcards support digital-out. Do check if they have Linux support before buying them (advice I ignore, with some bad sonsequences). Why do you prefer optical over regular S/PDIF? I noticed a while ago that Monoprice sells converters. I don't know about other choices. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 16 20:36:47 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:36:47 -0500 Subject: ubuntu sound to hi-fi amplifier In-Reply-To: References: <49203CB6.7000805@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0811160927x2774a633t7830360a5ca46583@mail.gmail.com> <49207135.3000604@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4920845F.70301@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Some motherboards have S/PDIF outs and some don't. Usually (I think) > they are RCA jacks with an orange core. My only modern desktop with > an Intel chipset has such a jack. > > My mother board does not, so I need to look to a sound card. > Many cheap soundcards support digital-out. Do check if they have Linux > support before buying them (advice I ignore, with some bad sonsequences). > > Why do you prefer optical over regular S/PDIF? I noticed a while > ago that Monoprice sells converters. I don't know about other choices. > My receiver is an ONKYO 656 circa 2001. The manual says nothing about S/PDIF, but it does refer to digital coax. I know the optical works, so that is why I was leaning in that direction. Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 00:01:15 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:01:15 -0500 Subject: ubuntu sound to hi-fi amplifier In-Reply-To: <4920845F.70301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49203CB6.7000805@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0811160927x2774a633t7830360a5ca46583@mail.gmail.com> <49207135.3000604@rogers.com> <4920845F.70301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880811161601r7742f83ese5c2e23ceb1e8ef7@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I have an ASUS-P5KE and the optical and COAXIAL cable works in ubuntu. I have however switched to ubuntu on my ps3 :) But i've had them both working. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 00:23:50 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:23:50 -0500 Subject: ubuntu sound to hi-fi amplifier In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880811161601r7742f83ese5c2e23ceb1e8ef7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49203CB6.7000805@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0811160927x2774a633t7830360a5ca46583@mail.gmail.com> <49207135.3000604@rogers.com> <4920845F.70301@rogers.com> <32f6a8880811161601r7742f83ese5c2e23ceb1e8ef7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4920B996.9010800@rogers.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi, > > I have an ASUS-P5KE and the optical and COAXIAL cable works in ubuntu. > I have however switched to ubuntu on my ps3 :) > I just listened to Lou Reed's Berlin performance on my PS3 on the main system. And realized how many Blu-ray movies I already have. The PS3 is exceptional. I think I am leaning back to a second PS3 for my office, and upping the storage on my Ubuntu server for my music library! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 16 21:24:48 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:24:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: a hard hardware upgrade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | So I look for a cheap Low Profile video card with analogue out. | | The only one I found was this: | http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=017062&cid=999.243.390 | According to the online inventory, I got the second-last one in their | system. Cheap due to rebate. I ended up returning that one. I had to pay the restocking fee (based, of course, on the before-rebate price). I bought a couple of Low Profile ATI x300 cards from TechDirect. Pulled from off-lease Dells. $10 each. Not very exciting cards. DVI + s-video (no VGA). Passive cooling. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 01:13:24 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:13:24 -0500 Subject: ubuntu sound to hi-fi amplifier In-Reply-To: <4920B996.9010800-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49203CB6.7000805@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0811160927x2774a633t7830360a5ca46583@mail.gmail.com> <49207135.3000604@rogers.com> <4920845F.70301@rogers.com> <32f6a8880811161601r7742f83ese5c2e23ceb1e8ef7@mail.gmail.com> <4920B996.9010800@rogers.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880811161713n5e82feb1t376165fee153d6b3@mail.gmail.com> The only complaint I have for the ps3 is the amount of ram on it (256MB) :( Disk space is not a problem 10 gigs is more than enough when you use NFS shares and samba shares for music and ...(videos). On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Stephen wrote: > Dave Germiquet wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I have an ASUS-P5KE and the optical and COAXIAL cable works in ubuntu. >> I have however switched to ubuntu on my ps3 :) >> > > I just listened to Lou Reed's Berlin performance on my PS3 on the main > system. > > And realized how many Blu-ray movies I already have. > > The PS3 is exceptional. > > I think I am leaning back to a second PS3 for my office, and upping the > storage on my Ubuntu server for my music library! > > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 16 21:53:03 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:53:03 -0500 Subject: Installing Ubuntu on Asus Eee Message-ID: <4920963F.7010304@rogers.com> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 8.04 from http://www.ubuntu-eee.com on my Asus Eee 2G Surf/Linux & 8 GB SD RAM card. I've copied the "CD" to a 4 GB USB drive and can boot from it, but whenever I try to install or even just run Ubuntu, I get only a command prompt, instead of the desktop or installer. I suspect this may be due to the limitations of this bottom end Eee PC. Does anyone know a way around this? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 05:12:10 2008 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:12:10 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200811170012.10826.mervc@eol.ca> On Wednesday 12 November 2008, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > > BTW, suggestion to other option to get such computers are > welcome, too. Although getting it from Canada Computers is > somewhat preferred at this point. > > Thanks! I am surprised that no one has mentioned Factory Direct yet. They regularly have Gateway and other Desktops, refurbed at very good prices. I got a Gateway unit 2 years ago which has been very good for $300. Usually only a year old it seems. Probably leftovers and not refurbed at all, mine looked brand new. -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can SuSE 10.2 Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.5 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 10:26:16 2008 From: mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:26:16 +0100 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: <200811170012.10826.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200811170012.10826.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <492146C8.1030100@gmail.com> ... > I am surprised that no one has mentioned Factory Direct yet. They regularly > have Gateway and other Desktops, refurbed at very good prices. I got a > Gateway unit 2 years ago which has been very good for $300. Usually only a > year old it seems. Probably leftovers and not refurbed at all, mine looked > brand new. > I picked up a machine once from these guys. They seem to get palates of machines from workplaces, vacuum the dust, wipe the drives and resell them. I can't say mine looked new, but it cost $100 and it's been working since... well, at least three years, maybe five. I can't recall. I think it booted to FreeDOS when I got it. It gave me a good laugh. A lot has changed in that place though. Now you can buy a spatula and some dishcloths while you're checking out the stock. Their website http://www.factorydirect.ca shows all their stock. Does anyone know if their warranty is any good? -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 12:14:30 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:14:30 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: <200811170012.10826.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200811170012.10826.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <49216026.8020105@rogers.com> Merv Curley wrote: > On Wednesday 12 November 2008, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > > >> BTW, suggestion to other option to get such computers are >> welcome, too. Although getting it from Canada Computers is >> somewhat preferred at this point. >> >> Thanks! >> > > I am surprised that no one has mentioned Factory Direct yet. They regularly > have Gateway and other Desktops, refurbed at very good prices. I got a > Gateway unit 2 years ago which has been very good for $300. Usually only a > year old it seems. Probably leftovers and not refurbed at all, mine looked > brand new. > > I believe they were mentioned a few days ago. TigerDirect also has refurbs on occasion. I bought an IBM Netfinity server from FD last year. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 12:29:21 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:29:21 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: <492146C8.1030100-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200811170012.10826.mervc@eol.ca> <492146C8.1030100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <492163A1.4060606@rogers.com> Mike Kallies wrote: > ... > >> I am surprised that no one has mentioned Factory Direct yet. They regularly >> have Gateway and other Desktops, refurbed at very good prices. I got a >> Gateway unit 2 years ago which has been very good for $300. Usually only a >> year old it seems. Probably leftovers and not refurbed at all, mine looked >> brand new. >> >> > > I picked up a machine once from these guys. They seem to get palates of > machines from workplaces, vacuum the dust, wipe the drives and resell > them. I can't say mine looked new, but it cost $100 and it's been > working since... well, at least three years, maybe five. I can't > recall. I think it booted to FreeDOS when I got it. It gave me a good > laugh. > > A lot has changed in that place though. Now you can buy a spatula and > some dishcloths while you're checking out the stock. > > Their website http://www.factorydirect.ca shows all their stock. Does > anyone know if their warranty is any good? > > I've never had to use it. However, when shopping there, you have to know what you're buying. While there are good deals to be had, there is also a lot of overpriced junk. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 12:38:43 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:38:43 -0500 Subject: Installing Ubuntu on Asus Eee In-Reply-To: <4920963F.7010304-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4920963F.7010304@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20081117123843.GA13058@watson-wilson.ca> I run Debian on my Eeepc. You might try running the xconfigurator by hand to generate a configuration file. I also opted for a low end window manager to conserve resources. I use Openbox. -- Neil Watson UNIX Consultant http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 12:56:39 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:56:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: <492146C8.1030100-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200811170012.10826.mervc@eol.ca> <492146C8.1030100@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Mike Kallies | ... | > I am surprised that no one has mentioned Factory Direct yet. Earlier I mentioned the HP SFF boxes I got there recently. But the details were in another thread. | I picked up a machine once from these guys. They seem to get palates of | machines from workplaces, vacuum the dust, wipe thedrives and resell | them. Mine were not even vacuumed. Dust bunnies inside. Worse: dust accumulation in the vanes of the CPU fan and (less so) in the CPU heat sink. | I think it booted to FreeDOS when I got it. It gave me a good | laugh. Mine too. Why is that funny? Sounds like they actually know what they are doing. Mine came with Windows XP Pro COA stickers. To some folks, worth the whole cost of the box. Not to me, of course. | Their website http://www.factorydirect.ca shows all their stock. Does | anyone know if their warranty is any good? Not very long, but it works, more or less. - exchange only, no cash. A couple of weeks ago bought a pair of HDD DVDRs, sans remotes. I determined one wasn't healthy and took it back (after about 5 days). They had no units to swap so gave me store credit -- no refund. Not totally satisfactory, but I spend enough there that it's OK for me. I also didn't like the high-pitched noise that came from one of my SFF boxes even when the power was off(!). So the let me swap it for another one. Even though they didn't believe me that it could make noise with the power off. (There was so much noise in their store that there was no point in testing there.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 14:55:33 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:55:33 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: <200811170012.10826.mervc@eol.ca> <492146C8.1030100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1226933733.6289.11.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Mon, 2008-11-17 at 07:56 -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I also didn't like the high-pitched noise that came from one of my SFF > boxes even when the power was off(!). So the let me swap it for > another one. Even though they didn't believe me that it could make > noise with the power off. (There was so much noise in their store > that there was no point in testing there.) That noise is annoying. I have two boxes which do that to me. Why should it ever happen? Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 15:03:50 2008 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (Teddy) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 10:03:50 -0500 Subject: cheap desktops In-Reply-To: <1226933733.6289.11.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <200811170012.10826.mervc@eol.ca> <492146C8.1030100@gmail.com> <1226933733.6289.11.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <492187D6.6010408@tmis.ca> I like the Compaq ENS SFF boxes..PIII max of 1Ghz, 1GB SDRAM Or the HP d530U on College Street $60 per..Celeron 2.4Ghz SFF no legacy Computatation.to at Jane and Bloor subway or Reboot Canada /teddy Terrence Enger wrote: > On Mon, 2008-11-17 at 07:56 -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > > >> I also didn't like the high-pitched noise that came from one of my SFF >> boxes even when the power was off(!). So the let me swap it for >> another one. Even though they didn't believe me that it could make >> noise with the power off. (There was so much noise in their store >> that there was no point in testing there.) >> > > That noise is annoying. I have two boxes which do that to me. Why > should it ever happen? > > > > Cheers, > Terry. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 16:33:49 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:33:49 -0500 Subject: Alternative WM on Xubuntu? or other lightweight distro? In-Reply-To: <20081113005009.GA20463-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20081109214248.GA14738@waltdnes.org> <20081110235053.GB17288@waltdnes.org> <20081111152313.GX5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081113005009.GA20463@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20081117163349.GB5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 07:50:09PM -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: > My experience was that it was still in multiple files, but in > different ones than I was used to. Well they are all in one place, and they for the most part inheret from a single file. > While I agree that PAM is useful where you need additional levels of > security (e.g. a machine that allows shell logons to multiple users), I > think it's overkill for the average single-user home machine. PAM > actively interfered with my use of my machine, which is why I got rid of > it. Someone did point out the config file to alter to solve my problem. > It involved basically deleting/commenting every non-comment line in the > file. So did another problem I ran into later. If I want to make my > machine usable to me, I have to zap many PAM config files. That begs > the question "Why bother with PAM in the first place"? And to get back > to my original point... how do I learn about PAM, when just about every > answer on Google and in the man page assumes that you are *NOT* using > PAM? pam has never gotten in my way, and has certainly been helpful when it comes to adding new ways to do authentication and wanting it to apply to everything that needs authentication. Practically every distribution uses pam by default, and doesn't seem to get in anyones way doing it. Not sure slackware has ever moved to pam, but pretty much everyone else has. What kind of weird thing are you doing with you machine that could possibly have issues with pam? Some people would say that for a single user machine there is no need for any authentication of any kind. I would say they are wrong. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 16:43:24 2008 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:43:24 -0500 Subject: BGP VLAN consultant Message-ID: <49219F2C.7040709@tmis.ca> Is anyone on the list experienced enough with BGP and VLANs to be a consultant? If so, please email teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 16:48:27 2008 From: pete-6NP59FE1ho9MFQD/ygXjfdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Pete Lancashire) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 08:48:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <24214.209.162.223.250.1226940507.squirrel@petelancashire.com> Hello from Portland Oregon, I joined TLUG in that I may be moving to Toronto which is very close to where I was born. I'm curious does Toronto have anything like Portland's FreeGeek.org ? http://www.freegeek.org or a short video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=625LPUACix0 -pete > Hi, > > I would like to find a cheap desktop for playing with Fedora 9 > and Centos 5. Because the "cheap" requirement, I don't think I > can get it by chosing each parts separately and configure it > into a system. Beside I probably don't have the time. :-) So I > looked into the choices from Canada Computers and wonder which > one will have good compatibility with linux? I listed the > choices below. Note: Serenity is Canada Computers' own brand, I > know some model have Biostar motherboard but not sure if all of > them are. > > - Serenity T1150, AMD Sempron LE-1150 2GHz, nVidia nForce 630a > / GeForce 7050 chipset. > - Serenity T1100, AMD Athlon 64 3200+, apparently some Via > chipset (S3 UniChrome Graphics). > - Shuttle K45PC, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200, Intel 945GC / > ICH7 chipset. > - Serenity T1080, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200. Intel 945GC / > ICH7 Chipset. > > (from > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=cpl&id=170.45&sort=3) > > Any suggestion? > > BTW, suggestion to other option to get such computers are > welcome, too. Although getting it from Canada Computers is > somewhat preferred at this point. > > Thanks! > > -- > (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo > _____ _____ _____ _____ > /____ /____/ /____/ /____ > _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 16:54:15 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:54:15 -0500 Subject: ubuntu sound to hi-fi amplifier In-Reply-To: <4920845F.70301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49203CB6.7000805@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0811160927x2774a633t7830360a5ca46583@mail.gmail.com> <49207135.3000604@rogers.com> <4920845F.70301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20081117165415.GC5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:36:47PM -0500, Stephen wrote: > My receiver is an ONKYO 656 circa 2001. The manual says nothing about > S/PDIF, but it does refer to digital coax. > > I know the optical works, so that is why I was leaning in that direction. Well optical cables cost more than coax, and cards with optical are much less common than those that support coax. I am not sure I have seen optical on anything other than onboard on a few mainboards, and on drive bay modules on high end cards. Of course the sound card (or driver) still has to convert the sample rate of the audio into whatever the link expects it to be. Some only do 48khz, some do 44.1, 48, 96 and 192khz, others are very flexible. Hopefully your receiver supports them all, or at least the ones you are likely to use. Depending on how much you are willing to spend, cards such as the Asus Xonar D2 (or D2X for PCI express) have digital coax and optical toslink support. It also has amazing analog quality. It is supported by alsa in the 1.0.18 version (included in 2.6.27 kernel). It runs about $160. Another option with digital coax/optical is the E-MU 0404PCI, which is about half the cost of the Xonar D2 at about $90. This too has support in alsa in recent versions as far as I can tell, although I have never used one myself. I haven't found any cheap usb devices with digital audio (at least not that I can tell if have linux support or not). The cheapest option in general is to make sure you buy a mainboard with the feature on it in the first place, since in that case it adds almost no cost at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 18:36:47 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 13:36:47 -0500 Subject: ubuntu sound to hi-fi amplifier In-Reply-To: <20081117165415.GC5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <49203CB6.7000805@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0811160927x2774a633t7830360a5ca46583@mail.gmail.com> <49207135.3000604@rogers.com> <4920845F.70301@rogers.com> <20081117165415.GC5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <32f6a8880811171036x2da2a0c0g48fea68548512f10@mail.gmail.com> If you do have to buy optical or coaxial cables, I learned that you can find cheap prices for them at: www.monoprice.com (5-20 dollars) for 6-50 feet On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 03:36:47PM -0500, Stephen wrote: >> My receiver is an ONKYO 656 circa 2001. The manual says nothing about >> S/PDIF, but it does refer to digital coax. >> >> I know the optical works, so that is why I was leaning in that direction. > > Well optical cables cost more than coax, and cards with optical are much > less common than those that support coax. I am not sure I have seen > optical on anything other than onboard on a few mainboards, and on drive > bay modules on high end cards. > > Of course the sound card (or driver) still has to convert the sample > rate of the audio into whatever the link expects it to be. Some only do > 48khz, some do 44.1, 48, 96 and 192khz, others are very flexible. > Hopefully your receiver supports them all, or at least the ones you are > likely to use. > > Depending on how much you are willing to spend, cards such as the Asus > Xonar D2 (or D2X for PCI express) have digital coax and optical toslink > support. It also has amazing analog quality. It is supported by alsa > in the 1.0.18 version (included in 2.6.27 kernel). It runs about $160. > > Another option with digital coax/optical is the E-MU 0404PCI, which is > about half the cost of the Xonar D2 at about $90. This too has support > in alsa in recent versions as far as I can tell, although I have never > used one myself. > > I haven't found any cheap usb devices with digital audio (at least not > that I can tell if have linux support or not). > > The cheapest option in general is to make sure you buy a mainboard with > the feature on it in the first place, since in that case it adds almost > no cost at all. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 19:33:28 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:33:28 -0500 Subject: SIMPL project is looking for volunteers to build a Pupplet (derivative Puppy liveCD) containing the SIMPL toolkit Message-ID: <200811171433.28669.icanprogram@295.ca> This has been on the SIMPL project (http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl) todo list for a long time. I'm not equipped to do this work, but I can certainly contribute content and my SIMPL expertise. Any volunteers should contact me offlist. Thanks. bob PS. Assuming we can assemble a team to create this CD, any ideas where we could host the ISO for download? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 19:15:05 2008 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:15:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: SIMPL project is looking for volunteers to build a Pupplet (derivative Puppy liveCD) containing the SIMPL toolkit In-Reply-To: <200811171433.28669.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811171433.28669.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Nov 2008, bob 295 wrote: > (http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl) Is '08Oct07' 2008-10-07 or 2007-10-08? Why do people use such ridiculous date formats? -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 17 21:03:26 2008 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:03:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Installing Ubuntu on Asus Eee In-Reply-To: <4920963F.7010304-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4920963F.7010304@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Nov 2008, James Knott wrote: > I'm trying to install Ubuntu 8.04 from http://www.ubuntu-eee.com on my > Asus Eee 2G Surf/Linux & 8 GB SD RAM card. I've copied the "CD" to a 4 > GB USB drive and can boot from it, but whenever I try to install or even > just run Ubuntu, I get only a command prompt, instead of the desktop or > installer. I suspect this may be due to the limitations of this bottom > end Eee PC. Does anyone know a way around this? I'm not sure if this is relevant or useful, but I had one old computer that always froze during the ubuntu install. Using the "alternate install CD" from xubuntu worked for that problem. Alex > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 00:54:19 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:54:19 -0500 Subject: ubuntu sound to hi-fi amplifier In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880811171036x2da2a0c0g48fea68548512f10-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <49203CB6.7000805@rogers.com> <99a6c38f0811160927x2774a633t7830360a5ca46583@mail.gmail.com> <49207135.3000604@rogers.com> <4920845F.70301@rogers.com> <20081117165415.GC5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <32f6a8880811171036x2da2a0c0g48fea68548512f10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4922123B.9000402@rogers.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > If you do have to buy optical or coaxial cables, I learned that you > can find cheap prices for them at: > > www.monoprice.com (5-20 dollars) for 6-50 feet > But this is Canada. We need metric length cables. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 01:00:32 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:00:32 -0500 Subject: Installing Ubuntu on Asus Eee In-Reply-To: References: <4920963F.7010304@rogers.com> Message-ID: <492213B0.5060005@rogers.com> Alex Maynard wrote: > > > > On Sun, 16 Nov 2008, James Knott wrote: > >> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 8.04 from http://www.ubuntu-eee.com on my >> Asus Eee 2G Surf/Linux & 8 GB SD RAM card. I've copied the "CD" to a 4 >> GB USB drive and can boot from it, but whenever I try to install or even >> just run Ubuntu, I get only a command prompt, instead of the desktop or >> installer. I suspect this may be due to the limitations of this bottom >> end Eee PC. Does anyone know a way around this? > > I'm not sure if this is relevant or useful, but I had one old computer > that always froze during the ubuntu install. Using the "alternate > install CD" from xubuntu worked for that problem. I'm using a distro that's customized for the Eee PC. It doesn't freeze. It simply leaves me at the command prompt, instead of a desktop or graphical installer. The help doesn't list any command to continue the install. I realize the 2G is a bit tight on space, but I have an 8GB SD RAM card, which I'd hoped would provide sufficient space. I was hoping there might be some install parameters or other method that could be used to facilitate this. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 02:11:21 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:11:21 -0500 Subject: Installing Ubuntu on Asus Eee In-Reply-To: <492213B0.5060005-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4920963F.7010304@rogers.com> <492213B0.5060005@rogers.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880811171811x7e6ff073s1a16e8765d17ec73@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Thats really odd, as I was able to install kubuntu on that same system (except my version had the 4 gigabyte built in) without a problem. I may have used the altenative cd for text install can't remember. I had it installed on a usb hard disk as well as a usb flash disk. It works great, you can also find hacks to make it faster as well as work with hibernation... On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 8:00 PM, James Knott wrote: > Alex Maynard wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, 16 Nov 2008, James Knott wrote: >> >>> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 8.04 from http://www.ubuntu-eee.com on my >>> Asus Eee 2G Surf/Linux & 8 GB SD RAM card. I've copied the "CD" to a 4 >>> GB USB drive and can boot from it, but whenever I try to install or even >>> just run Ubuntu, I get only a command prompt, instead of the desktop or >>> installer. I suspect this may be due to the limitations of this bottom >>> end Eee PC. Does anyone know a way around this? >> >> I'm not sure if this is relevant or useful, but I had one old computer >> that always froze during the ubuntu install. Using the "alternate >> install CD" from xubuntu worked for that problem. > > I'm using a distro that's customized for the Eee PC. It doesn't > freeze. It simply leaves me at the command prompt, instead of a desktop > or graphical installer. The help doesn't list any command to continue > the install. I realize the 2G is a bit tight on space, but I have an > 8GB SD RAM card, which I'd hoped would provide sufficient space. I was > hoping there might be some install parameters or other method that could > be used to facilitate this. > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 02:12:41 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:12:41 -0500 Subject: Installing Ubuntu on Asus Eee In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880811171811x7e6ff073s1a16e8765d17ec73-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4920963F.7010304@rogers.com> <492213B0.5060005@rogers.com> <32f6a8880811171811x7e6ff073s1a16e8765d17ec73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880811171812p76356b75nce431ab3d54b8d30@mail.gmail.com> Erk, I forgot to mention, I used a USB CD ROM/Writer attached to the other USB port. So I had One usb for cdrom and one usb for the flash, if need be we could arrange something ;) On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 9:11 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi, > > Thats really odd, as I was able to install kubuntu on that same system > (except my version had the 4 gigabyte built in) without a problem. I > may have used the altenative cd for text install can't remember. I > had it installed on a usb hard disk as well as a usb flash disk. > > It works great, you can also find hacks to make it faster as well as > work with hibernation... > > > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 8:00 PM, James Knott wrote: >> Alex Maynard wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, 16 Nov 2008, James Knott wrote: >>> >>>> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 8.04 from http://www.ubuntu-eee.com on my >>>> Asus Eee 2G Surf/Linux & 8 GB SD RAM card. I've copied the "CD" to a 4 >>>> GB USB drive and can boot from it, but whenever I try to install or even >>>> just run Ubuntu, I get only a command prompt, instead of the desktop or >>>> installer. I suspect this may be due to the limitations of this bottom >>>> end Eee PC. Does anyone know a way around this? >>> >>> I'm not sure if this is relevant or useful, but I had one old computer >>> that always froze during the ubuntu install. Using the "alternate >>> install CD" from xubuntu worked for that problem. >> >> I'm using a distro that's customized for the Eee PC. It doesn't >> freeze. It simply leaves me at the command prompt, instead of a desktop >> or graphical installer. The help doesn't list any command to continue >> the install. I realize the 2G is a bit tight on space, but I have an >> 8GB SD RAM card, which I'd hoped would provide sufficient space. I was >> hoping there might be some install parameters or other method that could >> be used to facilitate this. >> >> -- >> Use OpenOffice.org >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > > > > The man who is always a newbie at something, > Dave Germiquet > > Everytime I learn something new, > I realize I know very little. > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 08:14:38 2008 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:14:38 -0500 Subject: Ubuntu upgrade conflict (yelp vs firefox-3.0) Message-ID: <20081118031438.9rwahvqjhcg8s0ok@mail.math.yorku.ca> The last time I upgraded ubuntu 7.10, apparently there was an update for firefox-3.0, but it wouldn't let me have it because of something called xulrunner, which apparently depended on something called yelp, which I guess is a help browser. I eventually wound up removing yelp so I could get the firefox-3.0 upgrade; that meant I removed the following packages as well: gnome-user-guide gnucash-docs ubuntu-desktop ubuntu-docs Now I don't know what all these do, but "apt-cache show ubuntu-desktop" suggests that it *not* be removed. When I try to add them back, apt-get says fine, but I'm removing firefox-3.0! Come on, this can't really be this way. Anyone know what to do about this? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 10:56:16 2008 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 05:56:16 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: <492146C8.1030100-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>; from mike.kallies-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 05:26:16 -0500 References: <200811170012.10826.mervc@eol.ca> <492146C8.1030100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081118105616.GA1953@localhost> On Mon Nov 17,2008 05:26:16 AM Mike Kallies wrote: > Their website http://www.factorydirect.ca shows all their stock. > Does anyone know if their warranty is any good? I've never had to use a Factory Direct warranty but had a good experience: I bought a refurb PC from them recently (HP dx5150sff) for $70. It came with the key sticker for WinXP Professional but had FreeDOS installed on the hard drive. I tried to install an OEM version of WinXP Pro but had trouble activating it. I called MicroSoft and after being bounced around a few times, ended up talking to the HP business PC division (someone in India). I was surprised to find that the system was still covered under the original HP three year warranty, until March 2009. Because it was still under warranty, they shipped me the system and Windows recovery CD's via FedEx from Texas. The CD's arrived in under 24 hours and installed without a hitch. :-) -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 14:27:06 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:27:06 -0500 Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source In-Reply-To: <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <20081118142706.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 05:54:51PM -0500, Paul King wrote: > > http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29130 > > -- > > They have the best satirists. You have to read all the way to near the end to > get this gem: > > "Because all integers and natural numbers derive from one and zero, > Microsoft may, by extension, lay claim to ownership of all mathematics and > logic systems, including Euclidean geometry, pulleys and levers, gravity, > and the basic Newtonian principles of motion, as well as the concepts of > existence and nonexistence," Yale University theoretical mathematics > professor J. Edmund Lattimore said. "In other words, pretty much > everything." > > Lattimore said that the only mathematical constructs of which Microsoft > may not be able to claim ownership are infinity and transcendental numbers > like pi. Microsoft lawyers are expected to file liens on infinity and pi > this week. Well cetainly not one of the best pieces the onion has made. It just ignores too many things really make sense. It ignores the whole limited time of patents, and such, which to me makes it just dumb, not funny. The onion usually does a lot better than this. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 14:30:24 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:30:24 -0500 Subject: ubuntu / I-INC In-Reply-To: <491CB4C1.80705-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <491CB4C1.80705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20081118143024.GE5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 06:14:09PM -0500, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > I just bought an I-INC 28" LCD display. I have a KVM switch between an > XP box and an Ubuntu 8.04. The XP box is running the display at 1600 X > 1200 at 32-bit. It looks great. My apps show as the size I had before > but I can fit more of 'em on the screen - exactly what I want. > > Linux, however, is only offering 800 X 600 and 640 X 480 at a pathetic > 60 or 56 Hz. How can I correct this? I respectfully ask please not to > suggest a newer version installation of linux. I moved all most of my > work (except I have XP to run recording software since alsa still can't > fully "get" the E-MU 1212m pci card) precisely to get away from the > re-boot/re-install mentality of Microsoft. Make sure the KVM is connecting the screen to the system when it boots, since the system needs to read the DDC info from the screen to figure out what it is capable of. Of course some KVM's provide their own "lies" about what the screen is capable off, which is really annoying. We have one at work that always claims to be a 1024x768 at 75hz screen, no matter what is really connected. You could probably go and manually add the info about the screen, and tell X to ignore any DDC info (or lack thereof). The log file for X in /var/log/Xorg.0.log should show what the DDC info found was, and what decisions it has made based on it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 14:33:40 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:33:40 -0500 Subject: ubuntu / I-INC In-Reply-To: <491CD263.2020108-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <491CB4C1.80705@chrisaitken.net> <491CBA03.3020404@rogers.com> <491CD263.2020108@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20081118143340.GF5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 08:20:35PM -0500, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Aaah, I'm glad I mentioned the KVM switch (and I'm glad you picked up on > it). Your idea to boot with no KVM switch was a good one because it made > me realize that I haven't been giving linux a chance to see the new > display (even if only through the KVM switch). What I think I have been > doing is booting the XP box at the same time as the linux box. So, what > I think happened was I start the linux box, then KVM-switch to the XP > box (booting), so the XP box gets to see the new display, but the linux > box never gets to see the display and offers me a couple of measly > resolutions. > > Anyway, you inspired me to KVM-switch to the linux box, restart linux > and patiently watch while it completely booted. It did see the display > through the KVM switch and offered me all kinds of resolutions. So, I > didn't have to boot without the KVM switch - though I did need to boot > to linux while KVM-switched to linux and let it finish its boot. > > I don't really know which Resolution is best but I chose one that lets > me run a bunch of applications at a nice size and doesn't hide the panel > on me. I chose 1280 X 960. However, the only Refresh offered is 60 Hz > which is kind of lame. For a 24" or higher display, the correct resolution is 1920x1200 on every display I have ever seen. Anything else will be quite blurry. There are 30" screens that run 2560x1600, but nothing smaller than that would do that. A few weird ones are 1920x1080 because they are really meant for HDTV use. 1280x960 is also a 4:3 aspect ratio which will look squashed on a 16:10 display (or 16:9 for the weird HDTV ones). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomson.dan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 14:41:11 2008 From: thomson.dan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dan Thomson) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:41:11 -0500 Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source In-Reply-To: <20081118142706.GD5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27@sciguy.vex.net> <20081118142706.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I agree. Onion articles should be both 100% rediculous and 100% accurate. 2008/11/18 Lennart Sorensen : > On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 05:54:51PM -0500, Paul King wrote: >> > http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29130 >> > -- >> >> They have the best satirists. You have to read all the way to near the end to >> get this gem: >> >> "Because all integers and natural numbers derive from one and zero, >> Microsoft may, by extension, lay claim to ownership of all mathematics and >> logic systems, including Euclidean geometry, pulleys and levers, gravity, >> and the basic Newtonian principles of motion, as well as the concepts of >> existence and nonexistence," Yale University theoretical mathematics >> professor J. Edmund Lattimore said. "In other words, pretty much >> everything." >> >> Lattimore said that the only mathematical constructs of which Microsoft >> may not be able to claim ownership are infinity and transcendental numbers >> like pi. Microsoft lawyers are expected to file liens on infinity and pi >> this week. > > Well cetainly not one of the best pieces the onion has made. It just > ignores too many things really make sense. It ignores the whole limited > time of patents, and such, which to me makes it just dumb, not funny. > The onion usually does a lot better than this. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dan Thomson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 14:42:40 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 09:42:40 -0500 Subject: ubuntu / I-INC In-Reply-To: <491CD451.1090705-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <491CB4C1.80705@chrisaitken.net> <491CC1D5.3060109@rogers.com> <491CD451.1090705@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20081118144240.GG5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 08:28:49PM -0500, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > Looks like I don't have to do that. Though it's not rocket science, I > have never had much luck editing that file. I guess I'll just make sure > that whenever I boot to linux that I am KVM-switched to that computer as > well. I do understand (Correctly, I hope) that if I wanted to boot to a > given resolution every time (regardless of where the KVM switch's > attention is) I would have to edit that file. > > Is that a limitation of LCD monitors? I could certainly get better > refresh rates out of my CRT monitors. Some LCDs run 75hz, but since there is no flicker issue on an LCD, there is no real need for higher refresh rates than 60hz. Higher refresh rates take more bandwidth too, which is why 59 or 60hz is what is normally used. The maximum amount of pixels you can send through a single link DVI connection is 1920x1200 at 60hz. It can't do it at 75hz, there simply isn't enough bandwidth. Dual link can do twic that, so hence 2560x1600 at 60hz on large displays, although some high resolution displays do 3840x2400 at 24hz on dual link (48hz on quad link). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 15:14:21 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:14:21 -0500 Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source In-Reply-To: <20081118142706.GD5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27@sciguy.vex.net> <20081118142706.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4922DBCD.1060600@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 05:54:51PM -0500, Paul King wrote: >>> http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29130 >>> -- >> They have the best satirists. You have to read all the way to near the end to >> get this gem: >> >> "Because all integers and natural numbers derive from one and zero, >> Microsoft may, by extension, lay claim to ownership of all mathematics and >> logic systems, including Euclidean geometry, pulleys and levers, gravity, >> and the basic Newtonian principles of motion, as well as the concepts of >> existence and nonexistence," Yale University theoretical mathematics >> professor J. Edmund Lattimore said. "In other words, pretty much >> everything." >> >> Lattimore said that the only mathematical constructs of which Microsoft >> may not be able to claim ownership are infinity and transcendental numbers >> like pi. Microsoft lawyers are expected to file liens on infinity and pi >> this week. > > Well cetainly not one of the best pieces the onion has made. It just > ignores too many things really make sense. It ignores the whole limited > time of patents, and such, which to me makes it just dumb, not funny. > The onion usually does a lot better than this. > I guess they should have added "Closed captioned for the humour impaired". ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 15:32:04 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:32:04 -0500 Subject: hey there In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880811171816x7d2ee5daufc638be7d5df2448-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880811171816x7d2ee5daufc638be7d5df2448@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4922DFF4.6090303@rogers.com> Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hey James, > > If need be, I can lend you my cd rom / burner to install ubuntu on > that eee of yours. > > Let me know if your in toronto. I'm using a version of Ubuntu that's customized for the Eee and boots from a pen drive. It boots fine, but I simply can't get beyond the command prompt. I don't see any way to progress from that point or work around it. As I mentioned earlier, I think the problem may be due to the limited resources of that model. I also have USB CD drives available through a couple of friends. tnx jk -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 15:41:51 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:41:51 -0500 Subject: Lightning and gdata-provider in Ubuntu (was ": Evolution issue") In-Reply-To: <48D28285.1080102-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1221140243.9126.10.camel@akane.alteeve.com> <48C92271.7010602@utoronto.ca> <48C95D66.2060203@ualberta.ca> <20080911182409.GA32112@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <48D28285.1080102@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <4922E23F.30602@ualberta.ca> Marc Lanctot wrote: > William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 12:03:18PM -0600, Marc Lanctot wrote: >> >>> Does anybody know of a site that provides a "writable remote ICS" >>> link/file? Lightning is nice, and I love it, but I'm using Google >>> calendar and would be nice if I could add stuff to my calendar from >>> within Lightning (or Sunbird) rather than having to do it from >>> Google's web interface. >> >> You can view/update your Google calendar via Lightning. Google for >> instructions. It involves obtaining the live ICS link and subscribing >> to it from Lightning. > > Has anybody got write access working on their Google calendar through > lightning? > > I'm using Ubuntu.. I installed the lightning-extension package using apt > -- the only way to get lightning to work at all in Ubuntu -- but then I > don't see an Ubuntu package for the gdata-provider extension. So I > download gdata-provider-0.4.xpi from the Mozilla 2.0 download page for > Linux, and add it on as usual. When I restart, I try File -> New -> > Calendar -> Network.. there is no "Google Calendar" which is supposed to > be there from screenshots I've seen. And, when I list the add-ons, the > gdata-provider says I'm "missing additional items" despite the fact that > I installed these packages: libgdata-google1.2-1, > libgdata-google1.2-dev, libgdata1.2-1, libgdata1.2-dev . > > Anybody experience similar problems with gdata-provider + lightning in > Ubuntu? > I know this is an ancient topic, but just for everyone to know and benefit from, I finally got this working. I'm using the Ubuntu-packaged Thunderbird. I upgraded to Ubuntu Intrepid 2 weeks ago. I used apt-get install lightning-extension and then added on the newest Google Calendar Provider [1] by installing it manually. In add-ons I saw a "Requires additional items". I followed the advice here: http://groups.google.com/group/provider-for-google-calendar/browse_thread/thread/64f225ae2af93426?pli=1 with no luck (but did install libstc++5). So then I uninstalled both (Google provider from within Thunderbird and apt-get remove lightning-extension). Got and installed Lightning 0.9 manually [2] and then installed the newest Google Provider manually, and finally after a year of wanting to do this I finally can! [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/4631 [2] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/2313 Marc -- Fighting patents one by one will never eliminate the danger of software patents any more than swatting mosquitoes will eliminate malaria. -- Richard Stallman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 15:42:01 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:42:01 -0500 Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source In-Reply-To: References: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27@sciguy.vex.net> <20081118142706.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Dan Thomson wrote: > I agree. Onion articles should be both 100% rediculous and 100% accurate. The one they did about Obama winning the presidency was nicely in that vein. http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/black_man_given_nations -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 16:42:50 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:42:50 -0500 Subject: Installing Ubuntu on Asus Eee In-Reply-To: <4920963F.7010304-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4920963F.7010304@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20081118164250.GA23162@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 04:53:03PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >I'm trying to install Ubuntu 8.04 from http://www.ubuntu-eee.com on my >Asus Eee 2G Surf/Linux & 8 GB SD RAM card. I've copied the "CD" to a 4 >GB USB drive and can boot from it, but whenever I try to install or even >just run Ubuntu, I get only a command prompt, instead of the desktop or >installer. I suspect this may be due to the limitations of this bottom >end Eee PC. Does anyone know a way around this? I have this Ubuntu on my Eee, so it must be possible. I can lend you an SD card that works, if that would help. Email me privately to arrange a one-on-one installfest. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 16:55:00 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:55:00 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081118165500.GH5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 08:26:29PM -0500, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > I would like to find a cheap desktop for playing with Fedora 9 > and Centos 5. Because the "cheap" requirement, I don't think I > can get it by chosing each parts separately and configure it > into a system. Beside I probably don't have the time. :-) So I > looked into the choices from Canada Computers and wonder which > one will have good compatibility with linux? I listed the > choices below. Note: Serenity is Canada Computers' own brand, I > know some model have Biostar motherboard but not sure if all of > them are. > > - Serenity T1150, AMD Sempron LE-1150 2GHz, nVidia nForce 630a > / GeForce 7050 chipset. > - Serenity T1100, AMD Athlon 64 3200+, apparently some Via > chipset (S3 UniChrome Graphics). > - Shuttle K45PC, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200, Intel 945GC / > ICH7 chipset. > - Serenity T1080, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200. Intel 945GC / > ICH7 Chipset. Well I would avoid the via chipset. The intel should have no problem with linux. The nvidia should work, but require a very new kernel, which could be a problem for centos. So for good reliable and works with linux I would stick with the intel chipset. Of course I would also build my own with better quality parts, but that's me. :) > (from > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=cpl&id=170.45&sort=3) > > Any suggestion? > > BTW, suggestion to other option to get such computers are > welcome, too. Although getting it from Canada Computers is > somewhat preferred at this point. Canada Computers is where I go. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 16:59:02 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:59:02 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: <1226933733.6289.11.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <200811170012.10826.mervc@eol.ca> <492146C8.1030100@gmail.com> <1226933733.6289.11.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <20081118165902.GI5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 09:55:33AM -0500, Terrence Enger wrote: > That noise is annoying. I have two boxes which do that to me. Why > should it ever happen? > > 15750hz is perfectly within hearing range of some people. It still annoys me. I can tell when my wife has the TV on in the basement and I am on the top floor of the house. Ah well, some day we might replace it with a flatscreen and solve that problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 17:04:49 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:04:49 -0500 Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source In-Reply-To: References: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27@sciguy.vex.net> <20081118142706.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20081118170449.GJ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 10:42:01AM -0500, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Dan Thomson wrote: > > I agree. Onion articles should be both 100% rediculous and 100% accurate. > > The one they did about Obama winning the presidency was nicely in that vein. > > http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/black_man_given_nations Yeah, that's the idea. That's the onion we like, not that other crap. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 17:45:36 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:45:36 -0500 Subject: Installing Ubuntu on Asus Eee In-Reply-To: <20081118164250.GA23162-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <4920963F.7010304@rogers.com> <20081118164250.GA23162@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4922FF40.3060400@rogers.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 04:53:03PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 8.04 from http://www.ubuntu-eee.com on my >> Asus Eee 2G Surf/Linux & 8 GB SD RAM card. I've copied the "CD" to a 4 >> GB USB drive and can boot from it, but whenever I try to install or even >> just run Ubuntu, I get only a command prompt, instead of the desktop or >> installer. I suspect this may be due to the limitations of this bottom >> end Eee PC. Does anyone know a way around this? > > I have this Ubuntu on my Eee, so it must be possible. I can lend you an > SD card that works, if that would help. Email me privately to arrange a > one-on-one installfest. Is yours a 2G? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 18:03:27 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 13:03:27 -0500 Subject: Installing Ubuntu on Asus Eee In-Reply-To: <4922FF40.3060400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4920963F.7010304@rogers.com> <20081118164250.GA23162@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4922FF40.3060400@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20081118180327.GA23438@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:45:36PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 04:53:03PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >>> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 8.04 from http://www.ubuntu-eee.com on my >>> Asus Eee 2G Surf/Linux & 8 GB SD RAM card. I've copied the "CD" to a 4 >>> GB USB drive and can boot from it, but whenever I try to install or even >>> just run Ubuntu, I get only a command prompt, instead of the desktop or >>> installer. I suspect this may be due to the limitations of this bottom >>> end Eee PC. Does anyone know a way around this? >> >> I have this Ubuntu on my Eee, so it must be possible. I can lend you an >> SD card that works, if that would help. Email me privately to arrange a >> one-on-one installfest. > > Is yours a 2G? I believe so - it came with an RBC bank account. The number on the back is Eee PC 701SD. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 18:15:28 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 13:15:28 -0500 Subject: Installing Ubuntu on Asus Eee In-Reply-To: <20081118180327.GA23438-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <4920963F.7010304@rogers.com> <20081118164250.GA23162@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4922FF40.3060400@rogers.com> <20081118180327.GA23438@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <49230640.9030900@rogers.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:45:36PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 04:53:03PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >>>> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 8.04 from http://www.ubuntu-eee.com on my >>>> Asus Eee 2G Surf/Linux & 8 GB SD RAM card. I've copied the "CD" to a 4 >>>> GB USB drive and can boot from it, but whenever I try to install or even >>>> just run Ubuntu, I get only a command prompt, instead of the desktop or >>>> installer. I suspect this may be due to the limitations of this bottom >>>> end Eee PC. Does anyone know a way around this? >>> I have this Ubuntu on my Eee, so it must be possible. I can lend you an >>> SD card that works, if that would help. Email me privately to arrange a >>> one-on-one installfest. >> Is yours a 2G? > > I believe so - it came with an RBC bank account. The number on the back > is Eee PC 701SD. Curious. Is yours the Eee customized version of Ubuntu 8.04? I also tried the USB drive function from the 8.10 CD, but it produced an unbootable file system on the pen drive. Incidentally, one thing I've noticed is that function requires a pen drive and will not recognize a USB connected hard drive. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 19:23:12 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:23:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OT] MS explains 7-year patch delay Message-ID: This is startling if it is at all accurate: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/17/ms_explains_patch_delay/ It takes several generations of MS software to pass before a known bug is fixed? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 19:26:45 2008 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:26:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source In-Reply-To: References: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27@sciguy.vex.net> <20081118142706.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 2008, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Dan Thomson wrote: >> I agree. Onion articles should be both 100% rediculous and 100% accurate. > > The one they did about Obama winning the presidency was nicely in that vein. > > http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/black_man_given_nations Still not accurate: "only one other person even bothered applying for it". There were several others on the ballot. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 20:27:49 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:27:49 -0500 Subject: [OT] MS explains 7-year patch delay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:23 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > This is startling if it is at all accurate: > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/17/ms_explains_patch_delay/ > > It takes several generations of MS software to pass before a known bug is > fixed? This is an argument in favour of publicly releasing information about exploits once some "cooling off" period takes place. If a vendor declines to fix something like this, they need to run the risk of someone widely implementing the exploit. That's the "stick" to give them a strong reason not to decline to fix it. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 20:52:26 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:52:26 -0500 Subject: Installing Ubuntu on Asus Eee In-Reply-To: <49230640.9030900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4920963F.7010304@rogers.com> <20081118164250.GA23162@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4922FF40.3060400@rogers.com> <20081118180327.GA23438@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <49230640.9030900@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20081118205226.GA23908@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 01:15:28PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:45:36PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >>>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 04:53:03PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >>>>> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 8.04 from http://www.ubuntu-eee.com on my >>>>> Asus Eee 2G Surf/Linux & 8 GB SD RAM card. I've copied the "CD" to a 4 >>>>> GB USB drive and can boot from it, but whenever I try to install or even >>>>> just run Ubuntu, I get only a command prompt, instead of the desktop or >>>>> installer. I suspect this may be due to the limitations of this bottom >>>>> end Eee PC. Does anyone know a way around this? >>>> I have this Ubuntu on my Eee, so it must be possible. I can lend you an >>>> SD card that works, if that would help. Email me privately to arrange a >>>> one-on-one installfest. >>> Is yours a 2G? >> >> I believe so - it came with an RBC bank account. The number on the back >> is Eee PC 701SD. > > Curious. Is yours the Eee customized version of Ubuntu 8.04? I also Yes. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 21:21:03 2008 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:21:03 -0500 Subject: enable hw mac addresses in wireless router Message-ID: <492331BF.4010006@tmis.ca> Got a Wireless WRT310N router. Having problems setting Ubuntu laptop via WPA2 with TKIP/AES. spent hours, on this can only get 1Mbits 802.11b connection. (100% it is a g-chip) (old story of proprietary firmware from BroadCom drivers etc etc) So I says...why dont I just disable all wireless security. then enable just the hardware MAC address to enable only my computers to connect. Just as secure as before, right? Plus you do not have to worry about all kinds of wireless wacky macky... /teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 21:37:29 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:37:29 -0500 Subject: enable hw mac addresses in wireless router In-Reply-To: <492331BF.4010006-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <492331BF.4010006@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <49233599.2070407@rogers.com> Teddy Mills wrote: > > Got a Wireless WRT310N router. > > Having problems setting Ubuntu laptop via WPA2 with TKIP/AES. > spent hours, on this > can only get 1Mbits 802.11b connection. (100% it is a g-chip) > (old story of proprietary firmware from BroadCom drivers etc etc) > > So I says...why dont I just disable all wireless security. > then enable just the hardware MAC address to enable only my computers > to connect. > > Just as secure as before, right? Wrong. MAC address filtering is not secure. It is very easy to determine and clone MAC addresses. What you may want to do, is set up a firewall & VPN, so that only the VPN (and perhaps SSH) is allowed to reach beyond the access point. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 18 21:59:48 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:59:48 -0500 Subject: Installing Ubuntu on Asus Eee In-Reply-To: <20081118205226.GA23908-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <4920963F.7010304@rogers.com> <20081118164250.GA23162@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4922FF40.3060400@rogers.com> <20081118180327.GA23438@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <49230640.9030900@rogers.com> <20081118205226.GA23908@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <49233AD4.3050007@rogers.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 01:15:28PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > >> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:45:36PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >>> >>>>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 04:53:03PM -0500, James Knott wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 8.04 from http://www.ubuntu-eee.com on my >>>>>> Asus Eee 2G Surf/Linux & 8 GB SD RAM card. I've copied the "CD" to a 4 >>>>>> GB USB drive and can boot from it, but whenever I try to install or even >>>>>> just run Ubuntu, I get only a command prompt, instead of the desktop or >>>>>> installer. I suspect this may be due to the limitations of this bottom >>>>>> end Eee PC. Does anyone know a way around this? >>>>>> >>>>> I have this Ubuntu on my Eee, so it must be possible. I can lend you an >>>>> SD card that works, if that would help. Email me privately to arrange a >>>>> one-on-one installfest. >>>>> >>>> Is yours a 2G? >>>> >>> I believe so - it came with an RBC bank account. The number on the back >>> is Eee PC 701SD. >>> >> Curious. Is yours the Eee customized version of Ubuntu 8.04? I also >> > > Yes. > I just realized you apparently got a different model. Mine says Eee PC 2G Surf. If what I read on the web is correct, you've got 8 GB of built in storage, vs 2 GB in mine. I bought an 8 GB SDRAM card for this, but I guess it doesn't want to use it. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 19 02:11:47 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:11:47 -0500 Subject: Open Street Map party and other OSM bits. Message-ID: Toronto's next mapping event: Nov 29 Sat 10:00 AM Aroma Espresso Bar 500 Bloor St W Toronto, ON M5S 1Y3 416-303-454 RSVPs can be done via: http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Toronto/ Getting a basic account on meetup.com is free and will make sure you get a reminder e-mail before the event. Also, there is now a deal in place between the Open Street Map folks and The Canadian Council on Geomatics (a joint Federal, Provincial, and Territorial geographic collection project). Bottom line is that a HUGE amount of additional Canadian geographic data is soon going to start hitting Open Street Map. Also, if the US experience is a guide after the US Census maps hit OSM, lots of errors were noticed and are still being fixed. Still, for large parts of rural Canada this will be great (better data with some flaws, than no data at all...). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 11:56:03 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 06:56:03 -0500 Subject: gnash is gnot very good Message-ID: <1227182163.20751.8.camel@aragorn> I downloaded gnash 0.8.2 for Firefox 3 which seems compatible as of version 8 of Flash. However, when displaying a chart, it gives me this fake image of a chart and not the actual, interactive chart. I can't offer you a link to it, because it is password-protected. Just be assured that the chart (those PHP/XML-based charts on Wordpress) works on Firefox and Explorer for Windows. Just not on Linux. Paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 14:35:13 2008 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:35:13 -0500 Subject: Open Street Map party and other OSM bits. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <492575A1.50105@linuxcaffe.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > Toronto's next mapping event: > > Nov 29 Sat 10:00 AM > > Aroma Espresso Bar Hey Colin, I just have to wonder why Aroma and not linuxcaffe, as in past OpenStreetMap events ? I mean, it IS just around the corner from Aroma.. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 14:35:46 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:35:46 -0500 Subject: Not so OT: CRTC denies CAIP application, but will examine,Internet traffic management practices Message-ID: <492575C2.7050803@pppoe.ca> http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/NEWS/RELEASES/2008/r081120.htm News release November 20, 2008 CRTC denies CAIP application, but will examine Internet traffic management practice *OTTAWA-GATINEAU* ? The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) today announced that it has denied the Canadian Association of Internet Providers? (CAIP) request that Bell Canada cease the traffic-shaping practices it has adopted for its wholesale Gateway Access Service. However, in the future, Bell Canada will be required to notify its wholesale customers at least 30 days in advance of making changes that impact on the performance of its Gateway Access Service. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 16:07:51 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:07:51 -0500 Subject: gnash is gnot very good In-Reply-To: <1227182163.20751.8.camel@aragorn> References: <1227182163.20751.8.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <32f6a8880811200807s79c73c2fl40b808196da49a5e@mail.gmail.com> Hi Paul, What distrobution are you using? In order for me to get gnash working on youtube I had to compile some of the parts from scratch. I used debian for that. I tried the same with ubuntu with no luck. And the new ubuntu with gnash is not so hot either, i tried it on my PS3. It doesnt work. Its either gnash needs some more work, or certain distros have some issues.. or both :) On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 6:56 AM, Paul King wrote: > I downloaded gnash 0.8.2 for Firefox 3 which seems compatible as of > version 8 of Flash. However, when displaying a chart, it gives me this > fake image of a chart and not the actual, interactive chart. I can't > offer you a link to it, because it is password-protected. Just be > assured that the chart (those PHP/XML-based charts on Wordpress) works > on Firefox and Explorer for Windows. Just not on Linux. > > Paul > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 16:43:24 2008 From: mlauzon-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:43:24 -0500 Subject: Not so OT: CRTC denies CAIP application, but will examine,Internet traffic management practices In-Reply-To: <492575C2.7050803-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <492575C2.7050803@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <7c50d3570811200843k69a73636qccbaa63e56448e96@mail.gmail.com> The CRTC is old & outdated, all the Laws (read: Acts) need to be rewritten for the 21st Century...! On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 09:35, Meng Cheah wrote: > http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/NEWS/RELEASES/2008/r081120.htm > > > News release > > > November 20, 2008 > > > CRTC denies CAIP application, but will examine > Internet traffic management practice > > *OTTAWA-GATINEAU* ? The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications > Commission (CRTC) today announced that it has denied the Canadian > Association of Internet Providers' (CAIP) request that Bell Canada cease the > traffic-shaping practices it has adopted for its wholesale Gateway Access > Service. However, in the future, Bell Canada will be required to notify its > wholesale customers at least 30 days in advance of making changes that > impact on the performance of its Gateway Access Service. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Sincerely, Michael Lauzon From overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 17:00:23 2008 From: overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Overholt) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:00:23 -0500 Subject: Fedora 10 Release Party - 26 November at Seneca@York In-Reply-To: <1209587176.25362.79.camel@blingbling> References: <1209587176.25362.79.camel@blingbling> Message-ID: <20081120170023.GB4219@redhat.com> Hi, Everyone is welcome to come to a Fedora 10 release party at Seneca at York next Wednesday, the 26th of November starting around 6 PM. We'll have a live USB creation station or two so bring your >= 1 GB sticks. With persistence, anything you save while using the live image is available the next time you boot the image. The Seneca Freedom Toaster will also be churning out optical media: http://cdot.senecac.on.ca/projects/toaster/ A tour of the latest Fedora features will be given with plenty of time for Q&A and socializing. Details: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/ReleaseParty/F10/Toronto Should you have write access to the Fedora wiki, feel free to add your name to the list of attendees. Looking forward to seeing you next Wednesday! Andrew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 17:46:31 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:46:31 -0500 Subject: enable hw mac addresses in wireless router In-Reply-To: <492331BF.4010006-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <492331BF.4010006@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20081120174631.GK5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 04:21:03PM -0500, Teddy Mills wrote: > Got a Wireless WRT310N router. > > Having problems setting Ubuntu laptop via WPA2 with TKIP/AES. > spent hours, on this > can only get 1Mbits 802.11b connection. (100% it is a g-chip) > (old story of proprietary firmware from BroadCom drivers etc etc) Yeah broadcom is a pain in the ass. > So I says...why dont I just disable all wireless security. > then enable just the hardware MAC address to enable only my computers to > connect. > > Just as secure as before, right? Because clearly a MAC address can't be faked. :) Oh and reading all your traffic should not be a problem. > Plus you do not have to worry about all kinds of wireless wacky macky... You just have to worry about different stuff. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 17:49:01 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:49:01 -0500 Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source In-Reply-To: References: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27@sciguy.vex.net> <20081118142706.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20081120174901.GL5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 02:26:45PM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > Still not accurate: "only one other person even bothered applying > for it". There were several others on the ballot. That is true, although when I searched for a list of presidential candidates, CNN returned just two names. I actually was wondering how many names were on the ballot, but no news media seemed to care to tell me that. So as far as everyone seemes to be concerned, there really only was two people running for the job. I do agree it is way over simplified. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 17:58:08 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:58:08 -0500 Subject: how to create a self extracting tarball? Message-ID: <200811201258.08936.icanprogram@295.ca> I'm trying to streamline the installation of a tarball for an open source project I maintain. Currently the users manually undo the tarball and then manually execute a build script from within that tarball. eg. tar -zxvf simpl.3.2.1.tar.gz simpl/scripts/buildsimpl I'd like to simplify things to the point that the user downloads a file called "simpl.3.2.1" and then installs it by typing that file name. ie. simpl.3.2.1 Any ideas how I could go about this? Certainly I could build in some self extraction and autolocation logic into a higher level script which I bundle into my tarball and call it "installer". The process simplifies a little to: tar -zxvf simpl.3.2.1.tar.gz installer ./installer but that doesn't meet my goal of a self extracting file. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 17:57:38 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:57:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source In-Reply-To: <20081120174901.GL5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27@sciguy.vex.net> <20081118142706.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081120174901.GL5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <5126.173.34.8.54.1227203858.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > That is true, although when I searched for a list of presidential > candidates, CNN returned just two names. I actually was wondering how > many names were on the ballot, but no news media seemed to care to tell > me that. > > So as far as everyone seemes to be concerned, there really only was two > people running for the job. > > I do agree it is way over simplified. Satire intrinsically can not be read as historically or legally precise. Its very nature is to exaggerate for effect. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 18:02:29 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:02:29 -0500 Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source In-Reply-To: <5126.173.34.8.54.1227203858.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27@sciguy.vex.net> <20081118142706.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081120174901.GL5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <5126.173.34.8.54.1227203858.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4925A635.9090808@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> That is true, although when I searched for a list of presidential >> candidates, CNN returned just two names. I actually was wondering how >> many names were on the ballot, but no news media seemed to care to tell >> me that. >> >> So as far as everyone seemes to be concerned, there really only was two >> people running for the job. >> >> I do agree it is way over simplified. > > Satire intrinsically can not be read as historically or legally precise. > Its very nature is to exaggerate for effect. > > Peter > For example, they omitted Tina Fey as a VP candidate. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 18:08:29 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:08:29 -0500 Subject: how to create a self extracting tarball? In-Reply-To: <200811201258.08936.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811201258.08936.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <20081120180829.GM5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 12:58:08PM -0500, bob 295 wrote: > I'm trying to streamline the installation of a tarball for an open source > project I maintain. Currently the users manually undo the tarball and then > manually execute a build script from within that tarball. eg. > > tar -zxvf simpl.3.2.1.tar.gz > simpl/scripts/buildsimpl > > I'd like to simplify things to the point that the user downloads a file called > "simpl.3.2.1" and then installs it by typing that file name. ie. simpl.3.2.1 > > Any ideas how I could go about this? > > Certainly I could build in some self extraction and autolocation logic into a > higher level script which I bundle into my tarball and call it "installer". > The process simplifies a little to: > > tar -zxvf simpl.3.2.1.tar.gz installer > ./installer > > but that doesn't meet my goal of a self extracting file. > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. The traditional method involves doing a shar archive (shell archive), which is a shell script containing a uuencoded or similar tar file, which will then extract it's own contents and do the appropriate work on it. Personally, I _HATE_ when people do that. System administrators install stuff. They know how to do that. Users use things, they do NOT install things, and they most certainly never ever ever execute 3rd party code. Well unless they are windows users that is, and well we know how well that works security and stability wise. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 18:18:02 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:18:02 -0500 Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source In-Reply-To: <20081120174901.GL5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27@sciguy.vex.net> <20081118142706.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081120174901.GL5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 11/20/08, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 02:26:45PM -0500, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> Still not accurate: "only one other person even bothered applying >> for it". There were several others on the ballot. > > That is true, although when I searched for a list of presidential > candidates, CNN returned just two names. I actually was wondering how > many names were on the ballot, but no news media seemed to care to tell > me that. Well, the number of names varied... Remember that in the US Presidential votes are run by each state government, so details varied from state to state. If you were in California, you would have seen Ralph Nader's name on the ballot. On the other hand Ralph Nader was NOT on the Texas ballot... Bottom line, only two names show up on EVERY ballot in EVERY state... A list of all the third party candidates who could in theory have collected enough electoral votes to become US President can be seen here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_(United_States)_presidential_candidates,_2008 Seems a strange way to run a nation, but at least for Americans it seems to (more-or-less) work. > So as far as everyone seemes to be concerned, there really only was two > people running for the job. Well, in practice there were only two candidates who could have collected enough electoral votes to win. It is big news when any candidate from any of the "3rd parties" gets ANY electoral votes. > I do agree it is way over simplified. > > -- > Len Sorensen Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 18:23:07 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:23:07 -0500 Subject: Not so OT: CRTC denies CAIP application, but will examine,Internet traffic management practices In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570811200843k69a73636qccbaa63e56448e96-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <492575C2.7050803@pppoe.ca> <7c50d3570811200843k69a73636qccbaa63e56448e96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4925AB0B.2050405@rogers.com> Michael Lauzon wrote: Michael, this group frowns on top posting because top posters will just resend the original post below there's. We tend to form very negative opinions of people who top post. > The CRTC is old & outdated, all the Laws (read: Acts) need to be > rewritten for the 21st Century...! Maybe south of the border, come January 20th, we will see some movement towards technology sanity. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081120.wibobama20/BNStory/Technology/home " Who will click with President 2.0?" Excerpt: Mr. Obama has pledged to make issues of net neutrality, copyright protection, online privacy and cybersecurity hallmarks of his presidency. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 18:44:52 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:44:52 -0500 Subject: Not so OT: CRTC denies CAIP application, but will examine,Internet traffic management practices In-Reply-To: <7c50d3570811200843k69a73636qccbaa63e56448e96-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <492575C2.7050803@pppoe.ca> <7c50d3570811200843k69a73636qccbaa63e56448e96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Michael Lauzon wrote: > The CRTC is old & outdated, all the Laws (read: Acts) need to be > rewritten for the 21st Century...! This is a really tough thing. If we had rewritten the laws for the way things were in the 1970s, then the changes into the '80s would have required some rewrites. And repeat that each decade. You're not wrong, but rewriting laws "en masse" is a mighty tough endeavour, and it's not obvious that having them follow every little technical trend works, particularly when we don't know, a priori, which of those trends will continue to 10 and 20 years into the future. I don't know how to get it right... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 18:51:16 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:51:16 -0500 Subject: Not so OT: CRTC denies CAIP application, but will examine,Internet traffic management practices In-Reply-To: <4925AB0B.2050405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <492575C2.7050803@pppoe.ca> <7c50d3570811200843k69a73636qccbaa63e56448e96@mail.gmail.com> <4925AB0B.2050405@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Stephen wrote: > Mr. Obama has pledged to make issues of net neutrality, copyright > protection, online privacy and cybersecurity hallmarks of his presidency. This is well and nice, but in the way that the US government works, the role of the president is to execute the legislation proposed by Congress and ratified by the Senate. So, if those bodies don't provide appropriate legislation, it's not obvious that he'll have any relevant law to execute on. There are certainly Democrat majorities in those houses, but those representatives don't forcibly directly answer to the President. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 20:55:31 2008 From: simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org (Simon P. Ditner) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:55:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Elastix telephony workshop in Toronto; Wed Nov 26th, 2008 Message-ID: This Wednesday, November 26th, the Toronto Asterisk Users Group invites all in the area to join us for a telephony workshop and talk sponsored by Sangoma Inc.[1] Jose Landivar, co-founder of PaloSanto Solutions[2], creators of Elastix, will be running a "getting started" workshop on Elastix, followed by a talk discussing how it differs from other Asterisk-based distributions, and a road map of the project's future. Elastix[3] is an open source asterisk-based linux telephony appliance that integrates tools such as OpenFire IM Server, SugarCRM, mail services, and billing software into a single, easy-to-use interface. It also adds its own set of utilities and allows for the creation of third party modules. Asterisk[4] is an open source telephony engine that allows you to integrate traditional telephone systems with VoIP, run applications such as IVR's Voicemail, and dial-around services, as well as host your own applications written in any number of programing languages. When: Wednesday November 26th, 2008 5:00 pm - 7:00 pm: WORKSHOP - Getting Started with Elastix (reg. req.) 7:00 pm - 8:00 pm: TALK - Integrated Communications with Elastix Where: Committee Room 3 North York Civic Centre (in Mel Lastman Square) 5100 Yonge St., North York, ON Map link: http://xrl.us/hqbw Registration is requested for the workshop, sign up at: http://taug.ca/node/174 No registration is required for the talk: http://taug.ca/node/175 Check back at http://taug.ca for event updates. Cheers, Simon P. Ditner TAUG.ca Talk Coordinator [1] http://www.sangoma.com [2] http://www.palosanto.com [3] http://www.elastix.org [4] http://www.asterisk.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 21:15:55 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:15:55 -0500 Subject: Gnumeric question Message-ID: Hi Pals, I am using gnumeric over here and have a quick question. I have 4 columns of numbers. Lets say column A, B, C & D. I want to compare column A and B. I do not think Gnumeric has the compare function. Okay, it may be there but I have not been able to find it. So I defaulted to subtructing the content of column B from content of column A. The formula is not working across the rows. For example, I thought I could put this in the first row of column E. =A1-B1 Then, if I highlight the whole of column E, I assumed the formula would ripple all the way done. For example, I would have A2-B2 on the next row, A3-B3 on third row and so forth. Noop, not working. Any pointer on a good direction? I did a bit of googling, but nothing helpful has popped up yet. I am just raising this here just in case someone may know how to do it off head. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 21:39:31 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:39:31 -0500 Subject: Very used Thinkpad 600X Message-ID: <20081120213931.GA11563@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I have a very used Thinkpad 600X. The battery holds a charge for ~1 minute, it has no hard drive, and the CMOS battery has been replaced by a makeshift (which works). That said, the screen works fine, the CD drive works fine, and it is available to the TLUGger who wants it for the low, low price of meet-me-and-take-it. If you are the tinkering type, you may think of many things you could do with it. If you want a working laptop, this may not be the best choice for you - remember - no hard drive. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 21:46:10 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:46:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Gnumeric question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9801.173.34.8.54.1227217570.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Why not use open office 'calc'? It has a zillion functions, including comparison. Peter > Hi Pals, > > I am using gnumeric over here and have a quick question. I have 4 > columns of numbers. Lets say column A, B, C & D. I want to compare > column A and B. > > I do not think Gnumeric has the compare function. Okay, it may be > there but I have not been able to find it. So I defaulted to > subtructing the content of column B from content of column A. > > The formula is not working across the rows. For example, I thought I > could put this in the first row of column E. > > =A1-B1 > > Then, if I highlight the whole of column E, I assumed the formula > would ripple all the way done. For example, I would have A2-B2 on the > next row, A3-B3 on third row and so forth. Noop, not working. Copy the first formula and then paste it into all the other cells. The cell references will adjust. > > Any pointer on a good direction? I did a bit of googling, but nothing > helpful has popped up yet. I am just raising this here just in case > someone may know how to do it off head. > > Regards, > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 22:04:01 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:04:01 -0500 Subject: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes | The Onion - America's Finest News Source In-Reply-To: References: <491DE8B1.9000502@rogers.com> <491DBB6B.23842.11EE6B27@sciguy.vex.net> <20081118142706.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20081120174901.GL5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Colin McGregor wrote: > Seems a strange way to run a nation, but at least for Americans it > seems to (more-or-less) work. This shouldn't seem so remarkable. There are plenty of alternative policy approaches out there that function perfectly well (not necessarily perfect :-)) despite being "different." Auctions are a great example of this: people tend to be accustomed to "English style" auctions, which is where, as long as people keep waving their hand, the price keeps going up. But that is by no means the only way to do it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auction_theory There are 3 alternatives that are in common use: - First-price sealed-bid auctions - Second-price sealed-bid auctions (Vickrey auctions) - Open Descending-bid auctions (Dutch auctions) Dutch auctions seem wackily different; they only ever see one bid. It is not, however, irrational; the Dutch have been using this approach for flower sales since long before Canada was a country :-). Political policies are a funny thing. In the 2000 US election, the fact that the Electoral College policies had some effect on the outcome caused a brief hue and cry to the effect that it ought to be changed. It hasn't had any such effect since, and that controversy has subsided. There are a lively and interesting set of arguments both pro- and con. There are material arguments IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States) It is by no means obvious that changing that part of their policy would be unambiguously "good." That principle is much more widely true than people tend to recognize. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 22:27:47 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:27:47 -0500 Subject: Gnumeric question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 4:15 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > Hi Pals, > > I am using gnumeric over here and have a quick question. I have 4 > columns of numbers. Lets say column A, B, C & D. I want to compare > column A and B. > > I do not think Gnumeric has the compare function. Okay, it may be > there but I have not been able to find it. So I defaulted to > subtructing the content of column B from content of column A. > > The formula is not working across the rows. For example, I thought I > could put this in the first row of column E. > > =A1-B1 > > Then, if I highlight the whole of column E, I assumed the formula > would ripple all the way done. For example, I would have A2-B2 on the > next row, A3-B3 on third row and so forth. Noop, not working. > > Any pointer on a good direction? I did a bit of googling, but nothing > helpful has popped up yet. I am just raising this here just in case > someone may know how to do it off head. I'm not sure what you mean by "compare." What you seem to be describing putting a formula in one cell, and having it be applied to other cells. In *most* spreadsheets, you have to do that by putting the formula in the first cell, and then copying from that cell to the others. The way I would accomplish that would be by "copying" the value in cell E2; put the cursor on it, then select "Copy". (control-C; menu entry "Edit/Copy"). Then, I would highlight the region I want to copy it into (e.g. - select cells E2 thru E6), and select "Paste" (control-V; menu entry "Edit/Paste"). Lotus Improv introduced the notion of having a single formula applied automatically to an entire row or column; there has never been any port of this to Linux. There was a successor to Improv, called Quantrix, which runs only on Windows and MacOS. There is a clone of Quantrix available on SourceForge called FlexiSheet; it only runs on MacOS. At any rate, applying a single function to many cells isn't something that spreadsheets usually support. If you want a function used everywhere, they provide "copy/paste" to copy it into all those places. You won't find OpenOffice is materially different from Gnumeric, by the way; they both have the same basis for their set of functionality, as they are both basically tracking the base feature set of Microsoft Excel. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/spreadsheets.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 23:12:17 2008 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:12:17 -0500 Subject: Very used Thinkpad 600X In-Reply-To: <20081120213931.GA11563-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20081120213931.GA11563@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4925EED1.3090005@linuxcaffe.ca> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I have a very used Thinkpad 600X. The battery holds a charge for ~1 > minute, it has no hard drive, and the CMOS battery has been replaced by > a makeshift (which works). > > That said, the screen works fine, the CD drive works fine, and it is > available to the TLUGger who wants it for the low, low price of > meet-me-and-take-it. If you are the tinkering type, you may think of > many things you could do with it. If you want a working laptop, this > may not be the best choice for you - remember - no hard drive. OH OH ! pick me ! pick ME ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 23:41:35 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:41:35 -0500 Subject: how to create a self extracting tarball? In-Reply-To: <200811201258.08936.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811201258.08936.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 12:58 PM, bob 295 wrote: > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. I'd generally rather that this not be done altogether. What I'd *rather* do is to have the specs available (perhaps living in the same source code repository) for Debian dpkg packages (which tend to also be usable on Debian derivatives like Ubuntu) and RPM "spec" files (which tend to be usable with Fedora, RH(AS|ES), SuSE and such). If you pre-define an installation mechanism, by default, that will make life more difficult for people using pre-existing systems like dpkg and rpm. The *next* step, after having "spec files" for these packaging systems, would be that users of such systems could automatically use their dependancy managers to draw in the SIMPL codebase, using a declarative system. Thus, for a Debian/Ubuntu user, the installation steps would be: - make sure a suitable source is listed in /etc/apt/sources.list - run "apt-get install simpl" For RPM-based systems, the details are different but analagous. The benefit to it being "declarative" is that it then makes it easy to make SIMPL a dependancy. If someone writes an application that uses it, they don't need to explain how to install it, they merely indicate the dependancy in their app. Thus, if I install app-that-uses-simpl, I don't even need to say anything about SIMPL. I just run: # apt-get install app-that-uses-simpl If I don't already have SIMPL installed, Debian/Ubuntu will go off and grab it for me. If I *do*, then there's nothing to be done. There are generally two possibilities: a) If SIMPL becomes popular enough that people build spec files and get it into the common package repositories, then the mechanisms that you're worrying about are totally irrelevant. Someone (perhaps the proverbial "someone else") will deal with making it *trivial* to install, as a mostly-invisible side-effect of installing something that uses SIMPL. b) If SIMPL isn't that popular, then a system administrator faced with using it will be faced with grabbing a tarball and installing it. Seeing as how that's The Standard Way that everything else that needs manual installing gets installed, the tarball offers the Least Surprise. The best answer, it seems to me, is to try to trend towards making option b) as easy as possible. That's what everyone else does, for pretty large lists of "everyone." - *ALL* FSF projects are distributed... as tarballs. - Linux is distributed... as a tarball. (Linux is an OS kernel, you know :-).) - Ditto for X.org, GNOME, KDE, PostgreSQL, MySQL(tm), OpenOffice.org, Apache. The only sorts of things that I see that distribute as self-extracting scripts are proprietary applications. Generally speaking, by making it easy to get at a tarball, THAT makes it easy to build packages that can get automagically included, which means that administrators don't have to execute *anything*. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 00:30:56 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:30:56 -0500 Subject: Very used Thinkpad 600X In-Reply-To: <4925EED1.3090005-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <20081120213931.GA11563@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4925EED1.3090005@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <20081121003056.GC12098@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 06:12:17PM -0500, David J Patrick wrote: >> I have a very used Thinkpad 600X. The battery holds a charge for ~1 >> minute, it has no hard drive, and the CMOS battery has been replaced by >> a makeshift (which works). >> >> That said, the screen works fine, the CD drive works fine, and it is >> available to the TLUGger who wants it for the low, low price of >> meet-me-and-take-it. If you are the tinkering type, you may think of >> many things you could do with it. If you want a working laptop, this >> may not be the best choice for you - remember - no hard drive. > > OH OH ! > pick me ! pick ME ! Sorry, it was almost immediately claimed, and unless the handoff goes south, I no longer have the laptop to promise. I wish I had more now :-( -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 00:50:08 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:50:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: how to create a self extracting tarball? In-Reply-To: <200811201258.08936.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811201258.08936.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <11578.173.34.8.54.1227228608.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > I'm trying to streamline the installation of a tarball for an open source > project I maintain. Currently the users manually undo the tarball and > then > manually execute a build script from within that tarball. eg. > We use Freewrap to package our Tcl code as an executable. http://freewrap.sourceforge.net/ It's particularly nice for Windows folks who don't want to have to install Wish (the Tcl interpreter) on their machine. (Wish is usually installed by default on Linux machines). Dunno if this will do what you want, but it does mention that it handles libraries. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 20 20:28:42 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:28:42 -0500 Subject: how to create a self extracting tarball? In-Reply-To: <20081120180829.GM5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200811201258.08936.icanprogram@295.ca> <20081120180829.GM5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200811201528.43018.icanprogram@295.ca> On November 20, 2008 01:08 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 12:58:08PM -0500, bob 295 wrote: > > I'm trying to streamline the installation of a tarball for an open source > > project I maintain. Currently the users manually undo the tarball and > > then manually execute a build script from within that tarball. eg. > > > > tar -zxvf simpl.3.2.1.tar.gz > > simpl/scripts/buildsimpl > > > > I'd like to simplify things to the point that the user downloads a file > > called "simpl.3.2.1" and then installs it by typing that file name. ie. > > simpl.3.2.1 > > > > Any ideas how I could go about this? > > > > Certainly I could build in some self extraction and autolocation logic > > into a higher level script which I bundle into my tarball and call it > > "installer". The process simplifies a little to: > > > > tar -zxvf simpl.3.2.1.tar.gz installer > > ./installer > > > > but that doesn't meet my goal of a self extracting file. > > > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. > > The traditional method involves doing a shar archive (shell archive), > which is a shell script containing a uuencoded or similar tar file, > which will then extract it's own contents and do the appropriate work > on it. > > Personally, I _HATE_ when people do that. > > System administrators install stuff. They know how to do that. > > Users use things, they do NOT install things, and they most certainly > never ever ever execute 3rd party code. Well unless they are windows > users that is, and well we know how well that works security and > stability wise. Was able to find this short procedure on the Net. http://stuartwells.net/slides/selfextract.htm It works, although I don't confess to fully understand the awk line. I do tend to agree with your comments about self extracting archives. In the case of my project the "tire kickers" are often experienced developers and not necessarily system administrators. I wanted to minimize the "loss of interest" factor if the installation was multi stepped and susceptable to miscues. Thanks. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 02:40:11 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:40:11 -0500 Subject: gnash is gnot very good In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880811200807s79c73c2fl40b808196da49a5e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1227182163.20751.8.camel@aragorn>, <32f6a8880811200807s79c73c2fl40b808196da49a5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4925D93B.7882.327508B@sciguy.vex.net> > Hi Paul, > > What distrobution are you using? The latest Ubuntu Hardy (8.x), with all new updates. Your idea to compile it might be worth considering, as I have a dual-core (AMD 64Bit X2 Dual Core) which is probably introducing compatability problems. I am running and have installed the 64-bit version of Ubuntu, and could not install Adobe Flash, since they don't have a 64-bit version for Linux (package manager won't allow the install). > > In order for me to get gnash working on youtube I had to compile some > of the parts from scratch. I used debian for that. > > I tried the same with ubuntu with no luck. And the new ubuntu with > gnash is not so hot either, i tried it on my PS3. It doesnt work. > > Its either gnash needs some more work, or certain distros have some > issues.. or both :) > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 6:56 AM, Paul King wrote: > > I downloaded gnash 0.8.2 for Firefox 3 which seems compatible as of > > version 8 of Flash. However, when displaying a chart, it gives me this > > fake image of a chart and not the actual, interactive chart. I can't > > offer you a link to it, because it is password-protected. Just be > > assured that the chart (those PHP/XML-based charts on Wordpress) works > > on Firefox and Explorer for Windows. Just not on Linux. > > > > Paul > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > -- > > > > The man who is always a newbie at something, > Dave Germiquet > > Everytime I learn something new, > I realize I know very little. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3628 (20081120) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 02:57:28 2008 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:57:28 -0500 Subject: how to create a self extracting tarball? In-Reply-To: <11578.173.34.8.54.1227228608.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <200811201258.08936.icanprogram@295.ca> <11578.173.34.8.54.1227228608.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <49262398.7050408@ss.org> >> I'm trying to streamline the installation of a tarball for an open source >> project I maintain. Currently the users manually undo the tarball and >> then >> manually execute a build script from within that tarball. eg. >> http://www.autopackage.org/ It's a shell based tar extracter, but also talks to the rpm database, iirc. -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 03:52:57 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:52:57 -0500 Subject: gnash is gnot very good In-Reply-To: <4925D93B.7882.327508B-TElMtxJ9tQ95lvbp69gI5w@public.gmane.org> References: <1227182163.20751.8.camel@aragorn> <32f6a8880811200807s79c73c2fl40b808196da49a5e@mail.gmail.com> <4925D93B.7882.327508B@sciguy.vex.net> Message-ID: <32f6a8880811201952o3b1c1475m43a82df45919b170@mail.gmail.com> Hey Paul, Good luck. I wasn't successful with older versions of ubuntu as its linked to quite a few applications. I was successful with debian. Just FYI. Let me know you results, id be interested if it works with hardy. If all else fails..debian might work. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 13:12:01 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:12:01 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org Message-ID: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> I have Roger's as my ISP. All of my Internet functions work fine. I can access web sites, all except craigslist.org Firefox reports the connection was refused. I ping, the name resolves, but I get no response. I try with IE (Beta) and get flipped over to Google and the results of a search for craigslist.org Safari reports that it could not connect to the server. What is really strange is that this link works: https://accounts.craigslist.org/login The Rogers tech verified that the site was up and created a trouble ticket. Anyone have any ideas on this? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 13:33:28 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:33:28 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: <4926B3A1.5010106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4926B8A8.2010605@gmail.com> Strange indeed. When I type IP address in browser, it gets translated to http://www.craigslist./ Seems to be a sort of DNS problem. zb. Stephen wrote: > I have Roger's as my ISP. > > All of my Internet functions work fine. > > I can access web sites, all except craigslist.org > > Firefox reports the connection was refused. > > I ping, the name resolves, but I get no response. > > I try with IE (Beta) and get flipped over to Google and the results of > a search for craigslist.org > > Safari reports that it could not connect to the server. > > What is really strange is that this link works: > https://accounts.craigslist.org/login > > The Rogers tech verified that the site was up and created a trouble > ticket. > > Anyone have any ideas on this? > > Thanks > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 13:42:56 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:42:56 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: <4926B3A1.5010106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4926BAE0.50902@pppoe.ca> Stephen wrote: > I have Roger's as my ISP. > > All of my Internet functions work fine. > > I can access web sites, all except craigslist.org > > Firefox reports the connection was refused. > > I ping, the name resolves, but I get no response. > > I try with IE (Beta) and get flipped over to Google and the results of > a search for craigslist.org > > Safari reports that it could not connect to the server. > > What is really strange is that this link works: > https://accounts.craigslist.org/login > > The Rogers tech verified that the site was up and created a trouble > ticket. > > Anyone have any ideas on this? > > Thanks > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Stephen I'm with Teksavvy and cutting and pasting craigslist.org into firefox gives me http://www.craigslist.org/about/sites. https://accounts.craigslist.org/login works too. Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 13:52:39 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:52:39 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: <4926BAE0.50902-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> <4926BAE0.50902@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <4926BD27.4000904@pppoe.ca> Meng Cheah wrote: > Stephen wrote: >> I have Roger's as my ISP. >> >> All of my Internet functions work fine. >> >> I can access web sites, all except craigslist.org >> >> Firefox reports the connection was refused. >> >> I ping, the name resolves, but I get no response. This is what I get: PING craigslist.org (208.82.236.208) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208): icmp_seq=1 ttl=247 time=131 ms 64 bytes from 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208): icmp_seq=2 ttl=247 time=129 ms 64 bytes from 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208): icmp_seq=3 ttl=247 time=143 ms 64 bytes from 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208): icmp_seq=4 ttl=247 time=158 ms --- craigslist.org ping statistics --- 4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time 2998ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 129.990/140.787/158.148/11.277 ms meng at nemesis:~$ ping 208-236-82.208 ping: unknown host 208-236-82.208 #my comment Why the hyphens and period? 208-236-82.208 meng at nemesis:~$ ping 208.82.236.208 PING 208.82.236.208 (208.82.236.208) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 208.82.236.208: icmp_seq=1 ttl=247 time=229 ms 64 bytes from 208.82.236.208: icmp_seq=2 ttl=247 time=330 ms 64 bytes from 208.82.236.208: icmp_seq=3 ttl=247 time=308 ms 64 bytes from 208.82.236.208: icmp_seq=4 ttl=247 time=153 ms --- 208.82.236.208 ping statistics --- 4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time 3000ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 153.958/255.685/330.898/69.781 ms >> >> I try with IE (Beta) and get flipped over to Google and the results >> of a search for craigslist.org >> >> Safari reports that it could not connect to the server. >> >> What is really strange is that this link works: >> https://accounts.craigslist.org/login >> >> The Rogers tech verified that the site was up and created a trouble >> ticket. >> >> Anyone have any ideas on this? >> >> Thanks >> Stephen >> - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 14:40:54 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:40:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: <4926B3A1.5010106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Stephen | I have Roger's as my ISP. Me too. I don't use their DNS servers. They don't work the way I want them to. You might find an old message to the list useful: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/40924 I don't have time now to do the experiments but you should be able to. I can say that I have not observed a problem getting to craigslist through Rogers (I just tried it). But I'm not using their DNS and and you don't have to either. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 14:55:04 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:55:04 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: <4926B3A1.5010106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4926CBC8.5070104@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > I have Roger's as my ISP. > > All of my Internet functions work fine. > > I can access web sites, all except craigslist.org > > Firefox reports the connection was refused. > > I ping, the name resolves, but I get no response. > > I try with IE (Beta) and get flipped over to Google and the results of a > search for craigslist.org > > Safari reports that it could not connect to the server. > > What is really strange is that this link works: > https://accounts.craigslist.org/login > > The Rogers tech verified that the site was up and created a trouble ticket. > > Anyone have any ideas on this? I can ping it, via my Rogers account. It's likely their server problem if the name resolves to the correct address. You could try traceroute to see where it goes. Bear in mind, Rogers does not maintain the records for hosts that are outside of their network. When a DNS request is made to their DNS servers, they refer to a more authoritative DNS server. It may take multiple attempts, working up through the .org (or other) root server, which then points to a DNS server that's closer to the target. Rogers may then temporarily cache that DNS info. Bottom line, if other lookups work fine, it's likely not the Rogers DNS server. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 15:06:20 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:06:20 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: <4926B3A1.5010106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4926CE6C.70602@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > What is really strange is that this link works: > https://accounts.craigslist.org/login That is a different host name, which could point to a different server, though it would likely pass through the same DNS server. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 15:07:34 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:07:34 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: <4926CBC8.5070104-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> <4926CBC8.5070104@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4926CEB6.3030007@pppoe.ca> James Knott wrote: > Stephen wrote: >> I have Roger's as my ISP. >> >> All of my Internet functions work fine. >> >> I can access web sites, all except craigslist.org >> >> Firefox reports the connection was refused. >> >> I ping, the name resolves, but I get no response. >> >> I try with IE (Beta) and get flipped over to Google and the results >> of a search for craigslist.org >> >> Safari reports that it could not connect to the server. >> >> What is really strange is that this link works: >> https://accounts.craigslist.org/login >> >> The Rogers tech verified that the site was up and created a trouble >> ticket. >> >> Anyone have any ideas on this? > > I can ping it, via my Rogers account. It's likely their server > problem if the name resolves to the correct address. You could try > traceroute to see where it goes. Bear in mind, Rogers does not > maintain the records for hosts that are outside of their network. > When a DNS request is made to their DNS servers, they refer to a more > authoritative DNS server. It may take multiple attempts, working up > through the .org (or other) root server, which then points to a DNS > server that's closer to the target. Rogers may then temporarily cache > that DNS info. Bottom line, if other lookups work fine, it's likely > not the Rogers DNS server. Here's my traceroute: traceroute 208.82.236.208 traceroute to 208.82.236.208 (208.82.236.208), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 erx02.tor.pppoe.ca (206.248.154.120) 195.200 ms 169.321 ms 236.154 ms 2 ae0-2110.border2.pppoe.ca (69.196.136.7) 202.957 ms 132.333 ms 44.898 ms 3 xe-3-1-0-11.tor11.ip.tiscali.net (77.67.68.125) 143.781 ms 165.459 ms 126 .374 ms 4 xe-2-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.9) 210.679 ms 246.306 ms 89.149. 185.5 (89.149.185.5) 210.952 ms 5 dcp-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net (63.146.26.9) 280.056 ms dcp-brdr-03.inet.qwest. net (63.146.26.13) 375.944 ms 358.438 ms 6 phn-core-02.inet.qwest.net (67.14.19.42) 411.853 ms phn-core-01.inet.qwest. net (67.14.19.38) 327.658 ms phn-core-02.inet.qwest.net (67.14.19.42) 220.359 ms 7 scd-edge-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.12.46) 266.405 ms 392.415 ms scd-edge- 01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.12.42) 517.973 ms 8 rtr-qwest-iophx.craigslist.org (65.101.69.178) 484.931 ms 329.948 ms 412. 961 ms 9 * 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208) 353.266 ms 399.805 ms meng at nemesis:~$ traceroute craigslist.org traceroute to craigslist.org (208.82.236.208), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 erx02.tor.pppoe.ca (206.248.154.120) 357.863 ms 394.322 ms 421.798 ms 2 ae0-2110.border2.pppoe.ca (69.196.136.7) 265.821 ms 333.014 ms 427.311 ms 3 xe-3-1-0-11.tor11.ip.tiscali.net (77.67.68.125) 335.023 ms 206.407 ms 96.789 ms 4 xe-2-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.9) 153.784 ms xe-1-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.5) 81.118 ms xe-2-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.9) 204.482 ms 5 dcp-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net (63.146.26.13) 185.160 ms dcp-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net (63.146.26.9) 291.720 ms 254.131 ms 6 phn-core-02.inet.qwest.net (67.14.19.42) 355.035 ms 311.311 ms phn-core-01.inet.qwest.net (67.14.19.38) 309.362 ms 7 scd-edge-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.12.46) 289.064 ms scd-edge-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.12.42) 305.148 ms scd-edge-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.12.46) 326.755 ms 8 rtr-qwest-iophx.craigslist.org (65.101.69.178) 171.522 ms 137.832 ms 236.595 ms 9 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208) 202.878 ms 181.636 ms 258.012 ms Can someone explain why 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208) ? Why the hyphens? Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 15:11:58 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:11:58 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: <4926BD27.4000904-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> <4926BAE0.50902@pppoe.ca> <4926BD27.4000904@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <4926CFBE.2070902@rogers.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > Meng Cheah wrote: >> Stephen wrote: >>> I have Roger's as my ISP. >>> >>> All of my Internet functions work fine. >>> >>> I can access web sites, all except craigslist.org >>> >>> Firefox reports the connection was refused. >>> >>> I ping, the name resolves, but I get no response. > This is what I get: > > PING craigslist.org (208.82.236.208) 56(84) bytes of data. > 64 bytes from 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208): icmp_seq=1 > ttl=247 time=131 ms > 64 bytes from 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208): icmp_seq=2 > ttl=247 time=129 ms > 64 bytes from 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208): icmp_seq=3 > ttl=247 time=143 ms > 64 bytes from 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208): icmp_seq=4 > ttl=247 time=158 ms > > --- craigslist.org ping statistics --- > 4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time 2998ms > rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 129.990/140.787/158.148/11.277 ms > meng at nemesis:~$ ping 208-236-82.208 > ping: unknown host 208-236-82.208 > > #my comment Why the hyphens and period? 208-236-82.208 > meng at nemesis:~$ ping 208.82.236.208 > PING 208.82.236.208 (208.82.236.208) 56(84) bytes of data. > 64 bytes from 208.82.236.208: icmp_seq=1 ttl=247 time=229 ms > 64 bytes from 208.82.236.208: icmp_seq=2 ttl=247 time=330 ms > 64 bytes from 208.82.236.208: icmp_seq=3 ttl=247 time=308 ms > 64 bytes from 208.82.236.208: icmp_seq=4 ttl=247 time=153 ms Hmmm... I get 66.150.253.241 on both Rogers and Sympatico. A host lookup on 208.82.236.208 resolves to 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 15:15:32 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:15:32 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: <4926B3A1.5010106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4926D094.8050109@rogers.com> So I tried a traceroute and this is what I got: traceroute to craigslist.org (208.82.236.208), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 * 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 0.254 ms * 2 * * * 3 vl-201.gw03.grnsbr.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.91.113) 9.863 ms 10.162 ms 10.206 ms 4 gi-1-1-0.gw01.grnsbr.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.81.49) 9.551 ms 9.665 ms 9.708 ms 5 so-4-0-0.gw02.mtnk.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.81.38) 10.640 ms 10.685 ms 10.723 ms 6 so-2-0-0.gw02.wlfdle.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.80.41) 13.773 ms 13.829 ms 10.549 ms 7 64.71.241.118 (64.71.241.118) 24.251 ms 24.299 ms 24.291 ms 8 162.97.119.153 (162.97.119.153) 24.691 ms 24.229 ms 24.181 ms 9 qwest-1.ar2.DCA3.gblx.net (64.208.110.30) 38.462 ms 41.693 ms 38.528 ms 10 phn-core-02.inet.qwest.net (67.14.19.42) 90.646 ms 90.769 ms 91.288 ms 11 scd-edge-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.12.42) 92.639 ms scd-edge-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.12.46) 91.324 ms 91.084 ms 12 * * * 13 * * * 14 * * * 15 * * * 16 * * * 17 * * * 18 * * * 19 * * * 20 * * * 21 * * * 22 * * * 23 * * * 24 * * * 25 * * * 26 * * * 27 * * * 28 * * * 29 * * * 30 * * * I am getting routed to an abyss! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 15:28:18 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:28:18 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: <4926CEB6.3030007-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> <4926CBC8.5070104@rogers.com> <4926CEB6.3030007@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <4926D392.7040201@rogers.com> Meng Cheah wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> Stephen wrote: >>> I have Roger's as my ISP. >>> >>> All of my Internet functions work fine. >>> >>> I can access web sites, all except craigslist.org >>> >>> Firefox reports the connection was refused. >>> >>> I ping, the name resolves, but I get no response. >>> >>> I try with IE (Beta) and get flipped over to Google and the results >>> of a search for craigslist.org >>> >>> Safari reports that it could not connect to the server. >>> >>> What is really strange is that this link works: >>> https://accounts.craigslist.org/login >>> >>> The Rogers tech verified that the site was up and created a trouble >>> ticket. >>> >>> Anyone have any ideas on this? >> >> I can ping it, via my Rogers account. It's likely their server >> problem if the name resolves to the correct address. You could try >> traceroute to see where it goes. Bear in mind, Rogers does not >> maintain the records for hosts that are outside of their network. >> When a DNS request is made to their DNS servers, they refer to a more >> authoritative DNS server. It may take multiple attempts, working up >> through the .org (or other) root server, which then points to a DNS >> server that's closer to the target. Rogers may then temporarily cache >> that DNS info. Bottom line, if other lookups work fine, it's likely >> not the Rogers DNS server. > > Here's my traceroute: > > traceroute 208.82.236.208 > traceroute to 208.82.236.208 (208.82.236.208), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets > 1 erx02.tor.pppoe.ca (206.248.154.120) 195.200 ms 169.321 ms 236.154 ms > 2 ae0-2110.border2.pppoe.ca (69.196.136.7) 202.957 ms 132.333 ms > 44.898 ms > 3 xe-3-1-0-11.tor11.ip.tiscali.net (77.67.68.125) 143.781 ms 165.459 > ms 126 .374 ms > 4 xe-2-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.9) 210.679 ms 246.306 ms > 89.149. 185.5 > (89.149.185.5) 210.952 ms > 5 dcp-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net (63.146.26.9) 280.056 ms > dcp-brdr-03.inet.qwest. > net (63.146.26.13) 375.944 ms 358.438 ms > 6 phn-core-02.inet.qwest.net (67.14.19.42) 411.853 ms > phn-core-01.inet.qwest. > net (67.14.19.38) 327.658 ms phn-core-02.inet.qwest.net (67.14.19.42) > 220.359 ms > 7 scd-edge-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.12.46) 266.405 ms 392.415 ms > scd-edge- > 01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.12.42) 517.973 ms > 8 rtr-qwest-iophx.craigslist.org (65.101.69.178) 484.931 ms 329.948 > ms 412. 961 ms > 9 * 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208) 353.266 ms 399.805 ms > meng at nemesis:~$ traceroute craigslist.org > traceroute to craigslist.org (208.82.236.208), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets > 1 erx02.tor.pppoe.ca (206.248.154.120) 357.863 ms 394.322 ms 421.798 ms > 2 ae0-2110.border2.pppoe.ca (69.196.136.7) 265.821 ms 333.014 ms > 427.311 ms > 3 xe-3-1-0-11.tor11.ip.tiscali.net (77.67.68.125) 335.023 ms 206.407 > ms 96.789 ms > 4 xe-2-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.9) 153.784 ms > xe-1-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.5) 81.118 ms > xe-2-0-0.was12.ip.tiscali.net (89.149.185.9) 204.482 ms > 5 dcp-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net (63.146.26.13) 185.160 ms > dcp-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net (63.146.26.9) 291.720 ms 254.131 ms > 6 phn-core-02.inet.qwest.net (67.14.19.42) 355.035 ms 311.311 ms > phn-core-01.inet.qwest.net (67.14.19.38) 309.362 ms > 7 scd-edge-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.12.46) 289.064 ms > scd-edge-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.12.42) 305.148 ms > scd-edge-01.inet.qwest.net (205.171.12.46) 326.755 ms > 8 rtr-qwest-iophx.craigslist.org (65.101.69.178) 171.522 ms 137.832 > ms 236.595 ms > 9 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208) 202.878 ms 181.636 > ms 258.012 ms > > Can someone explain why 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208) ? > Why the hyphens? > > Regards > > Meng It appears to me the host name contains those numbers and hyphens. It is not an IP address. The IP address does not contain any hyphens. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 15:34:20 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:34:20 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: <4926D094.8050109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> <4926D094.8050109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4926D4FC.9040704@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > So I tried a traceroute and this is what I got: > 27 * * * > 28 * * * > 29 * * * > 30 * * * > > I am getting routed to an abyss! Not necessarily. It is possible to configure a router or computer to not respond to traceroute. Sometimes, you'll see a few lines of * * * and then valid addresses appear again. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 16:01:51 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:01:51 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: <4926D392.7040201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> <4926CBC8.5070104@rogers.com> <4926CEB6.3030007@pppoe.ca> <4926D392.7040201@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4926DB6F.60409@pppoe.ca> James Knott wrote: >> Can someone explain why 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208) ? >> Why the hyphens? >> >> Regards >> >> Meng > > It appears to me the host name contains those numbers and hyphens. It > is not an IP address. The IP address does not contain any hyphens. > > Thanks, James :-) host craigslist.org craigslist.org A 208.82.236.208 nslookup craigslist.org Server: 206.248.154.22 Address: 206.248.154.22#53 Non-authoritative answer: Name: craigslist.org Address: 208.82.236.208 dig craigslist.org ; <<>> DiG 9.3.4-P1.1 <<>> craigslist.org ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 17429 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 4, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;craigslist.org. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: craigslist.org. 281 IN A 208.82.236.208 ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: craigslist.org. 293 IN NS ns2s.craigslist.org. craigslist.org. 293 IN NS ns1s.craigslist.org. craigslist.org. 293 IN NS ns2p.craigslist.org. craigslist.org. 293 IN NS ns1p.craigslist.org. ;; Query time: 201 msec ;; SERVER: 206.248.154.22#53(206.248.154.22) ;; WHEN: Fri Nov 21 10:59:13 2008 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 124 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 17:29:09 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:29:09 -0500 Subject: We're not endorsing internet throttling: CRTC Message-ID: <4926EFE5.8010604@pppoe.ca> Amazing admission, try this with your boss :-) http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/11/20/tech-crtcqna.html Leonard Katz, the CRTC's vice-chairman, discussed the decision and the upcoming proceeding with CBCNews.ca: *CBCNews.ca:* The [Canadian Association of Internet Providers] and its members have complained that they weren't notified in October that the decision would be delayed, or that a ruling was coming on Thursday. Can you shed any light on why weren't they notified in advance of either event? *Katz:* None at all. I don't know what the timelines are. Usually the commission makes a decision and it goes to the lawyers and writers to craft the decision. Then we're told when it goes out and we put together the appropriate machinery to get it out the door. I have no idea who was notified, when they were notified or who was given advance notice or not. I would think we treat everybody the same. No idea at all. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 17:52:13 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:52:13 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: <4926CEB6.3030007-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> <4926CBC8.5070104@rogers.com> <4926CEB6.3030007@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Meng Cheah wrote: > Can someone explain why 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208) ? > Why the hyphens? Apparently Craigslist set up some host names of that form. It's supported by DNS, so they can choose to do so. This is arguably in poor form, being confusing (it confused people in this thread), but it's legitimate... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 18:11:17 2008 From: fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Salman Ahmed) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:11:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer Message-ID: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> My years old Lexmark Optra laser printer is on its deathbed and I am looking to replace it with a current similar laser printer. I am looking for recommendations for a low-cost mono laser printer that is Linux-compatible and easy to setup under Linux. Network support is not required as this printer will just be direct-attached to a PC. Ideally I want to spend < $100.00. Thanks! Salman Ahmed -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 18:27:33 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:27:33 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <373229.89085.qm-1iSqG+Z3bMiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4926FD95.6080909@alteeve.com> Salman Ahmed wrote: > My years old Lexmark Optra laser printer is on its deathbed and I am looking to replace it with a current similar laser printer. > > I am looking for recommendations for a low-cost mono laser printer that is Linux-compatible and easy to setup under Linux. Network support is not required as this printer will just be direct-attached to a PC. Ideally I want to spend < $100.00. > > Thanks! > > > Salman Ahmed Funny you should ask... I *just* got a Brother HL-5250-DN yesterday, and just finished printing my first decent size document with it. Supports duplex and networking and I got it on sale from Staples for ~$200 taxes in and delivered, though I think it's normally about $260. I installed it on an Ubuntu 7.10 machine and it was automatically detected by Ubuntu 8.10. It is recommended you download the PPD file from Brother though. That's what I did and it was a totally painless setup. I printed asian character-set documents with no trouble and it's a very clear print job. So ya, that's a recommendation. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 18:38:06 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:38:06 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <373229.89085.qm-1iSqG+Z3bMiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4927000E.8090109@rogers.com> Salman Ahmed wrote: > My years old Lexmark Optra laser printer is on its deathbed and I am looking to replace it with a current similar laser printer. > > I am looking for recommendations for a low-cost mono laser printer that is Linux-compatible and easy to setup under Linux. Network support is not required as this printer will just be direct-attached to a PC. Ideally I want to spend < $100.00. > > Thanks! > > > Salman Ahmed I was in Future Shop yesterday and they have a Samsung ML 2240 on for $69.99. I have had a Samsung ML 1210 for 6 years and it has always been recognized / configured by linux immediately. HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 18:46:25 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:46:25 -0800 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <373229.89085.qm-1iSqG+Z3bMiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420811211046t89ef883r40be896872457965@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Salman Ahmed wrote: > I am looking for recommendations for a low-cost mono laser printer that is > Linux-compatible and easy to setup under Linux. Network support is not > required as this printer will just be direct-attached to a PC. Ideally I want to > spend < $100.00. I have a Xerox Phaser of some sort that I got at Costco. It's a colour laser with network support and full Linux support (the installation CD included PPDs!) and I got it for $399 delivered. Xerox may have cheaper mono printers available, too. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 19:14:47 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:14:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <4927000E.8090109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4927000E.8090109@rogers.com> Message-ID: <14681.173.34.8.54.1227294887.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > Salman Ahmed wrote: >> My years old Lexmark Optra laser printer is on its deathbed and I am >> looking to replace it with a current similar laser printer. >> >> I am looking for recommendations for a low-cost mono laser printer that >> is Linux-compatible and easy to setup under Linux. Network support is >> not required as this printer will just be direct-attached to a PC. >> Ideally I want to spend < $100.00. >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> Salman Ahmed > > I was in Future Shop yesterday and they have a Samsung ML 2240 on for > $69.99. I have had a Samsung ML 1210 for 6 years and it has always been > recognized / configured by linux immediately. > > HTH > I have a Samsung ML2250 that was major grief to attach to a Suse Linux system. I got it to be recognized as a Laserjet and it sort of worked, but the software was never entirely reliable. Samsung claimed it was Linux compatable, but their software did not install correctly. Now I have a Lexmark C530DN, and again, the Linux software does not install and correctly. The printer works, but many of the features are not available from Linux under Suse 10.3. So just because it says 'Linux Compatable' on the box does not mean much. Peter Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 19:23:13 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:23:13 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <373229.89085.qm-1iSqG+Z3bMiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49270AA1.4010601@rogers.com> Salman Ahmed wrote: > My years old Lexmark Optra laser printer is on its deathbed and I am looking to replace it with a current similar laser printer. > > I am looking for recommendations for a low-cost mono laser printer that is Linux-compatible and easy to setup under Linux. Network support is not required as this printer will just be direct-attached to a PC. Ideally I want to spend < $100.00. Last year, I bought a Dell printer that was made by Samsung. I don't recall the model and I'm not at home right now, but it is supported in Linux, by using the Samsung drivers. Brother printers also include Linux support. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 19:56:19 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:56:19 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <14681.173.34.8.54.1227294887.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4927000E.8090109@rogers.com> <14681.173.34.8.54.1227294887.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <49271263.9010505@telly.org> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I have a Samsung ML2250 that was major grief to attach to a Suse Linux > system. I got it to be recognized as a Laserjet and it sort of worked, but > the software was never entirely reliable. Samsung claimed it was Linux > compatable, but their software did not install correctly. > > Now I have a Lexmark C530DN, and again, the Linux software does not > install and correctly. The printer works, but many of the features are not > available from Linux under Suse 10.3. > I have heard enough horror stories to recommend that people stay away from Lexmark if they intend to use Linux. When a Lexmark system works at all it's more likely accidental than any deliberate attempt at support. Generally the common wisdom I follow is that HP support is the best, followed closely by Brother which is also very good. Cannon and Lexmark are to be avoided, and most of the rest (Epson, Samsung, etc) have support that can be good but is inconsistent. Even if you find a Canon or Lexmark printer with some Linux support, if the purchase decision is in your hands why not financially encourage those for whom FOSS support is corporate policy? Of course, if you have the oppportunity, don't forget to consult the printer database at openprinting.org -- http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 20:15:01 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:15:01 -0500 Subject: [OT] Rogers DNS Games? I Can't Access craigslist.org In-Reply-To: References: <4926B3A1.5010106@rogers.com> <4926CBC8.5070104@rogers.com> <4926CEB6.3030007@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <492716C5.8060601@pppoe.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Meng Cheah wrote: > >> Can someone explain why 208-236-82.208.craigslist.org (208.82.236.208) ? >> Why the hyphens? >> > > Apparently Craigslist set up some host names of that form. It's > supported by DNS, so they can choose to do so. > > This is arguably in poor form, being confusing (it confused people in > this thread), but it's legitimate... > Thanks for clearing this up :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 20:30:13 2008 From: fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Salman Ahmed) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:30:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <49270AA1.4010601-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <49270AA1.4010601@rogers.com> Message-ID: <685188.77880.qm@web51806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> My budget for the printer is the first priority so that rules out the nice Brother model that Madison recommended. The Samsung model for $69.99 at FS sounds interesting - I just need to check how well its supported under Linux. If I can find a Brother model close to $100 I'd prefer to go for it as their printers seem to be very well regarded even if they are on the pricier side. Evan: thanks for the link to the OpenPrinting database, I'll be cross-checking my selections through there. Strangely enough, my 8+ year old Lexmark Optra E312 is really well supported under Linux through CUPS and and lpd/lprng. Thanks for the replies everyone. Salman Ahmed -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 20:50:24 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:50:24 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <14681.173.34.8.54.1227294887.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4927000E.8090109@rogers.com> <14681.173.34.8.54.1227294887.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <49271F10.3050701@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> > I have a Samsung ML2250 that was major grief to attach to a Suse Linux > system. I got it to be recognized as a Laserjet and it sort of worked, but > the software was never entirely reliable. Samsung claimed it was Linux > compatable, but their software did not install correctly. > > Now I have a Lexmark C530DN, and again, the Linux software does not > install and correctly. The printer works, but many of the features are not > available from Linux under Suse 10.3. > > So just because it says 'Linux Compatable' on the box does not mean much. > > Peter > > Peter > FWIW, in my last encounter with Suse 10? and a Samsung printer, I just mounted the CD that came with the unit and ran the install script that was contained in the driver gzip'd file. The printer worked fine. According to my notes the printer was a model 1740. HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 21:05:15 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:05:15 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <49271263.9010505-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4927000E.8090109@rogers.com> <14681.173.34.8.54.1227294887.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <49271263.9010505@telly.org> Message-ID: <4927228B.1040901@dinamis.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I have heard enough horror stories to recommend that people stay away > from Lexmark if they intend to use Linux. When a Lexmark system works at > all it's more likely accidental than any deliberate attempt at support. [snip] I have a feeling of deja vu. You had made similar claims before and I had chimed in to say that has not been my experience, at least with the higher end Lexmark printers. I've had no trouble connecting network-attached Lexmark Optra printers to various Linux distributions and in every case, the features, such as additional trays, duplexing, envelope feeders, were recognized in Linux. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3273 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 21:03:11 2008 From: asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Asaf Maruf) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:03:11 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <49271F10.3050701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4927000E.8090109@rogers.com> <14681.173.34.8.54.1227294887.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <49271F10.3050701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49e826e90811211303l19b4d730jc7198fdbc36f7969@mail.gmail.com> I have had very good experience with Samsung printers, solid, very competitive price and Linux compatible. My 2c. Asaf On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 3:50 PM, John McGregor wrote: > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > >>> I have a Samsung ML2250 that was major grief to attach to a Suse Linux >> system. I got it to be recognized as a Laserjet and it sort of worked, but >> the software was never entirely reliable. Samsung claimed it was Linux >> compatable, but their software did not install correctly. >> >> Now I have a Lexmark C530DN, and again, the Linux software does not >> install and correctly. The printer works, but many of the features are not >> available from Linux under Suse 10.3. >> >> So just because it says 'Linux Compatable' on the box does not mean much. >> >> Peter >> >> Peter >> >> > FWIW, in my last encounter with Suse 10? and a Samsung printer, I just > mounted the CD that came with the unit and ran the install script that was > contained in the driver gzip'd file. The printer worked fine. According to > my notes the printer was a model 1740. > > HTH > > John > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- 40 isn't old. If you're a tree. LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/asafmaruf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 21:34:49 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:34:49 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <4927228B.1040901-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4927000E.8090109@rogers.com> <14681.173.34.8.54.1227294887.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <49271263.9010505@telly.org> <4927228B.1040901@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <49272979.6030804@rogers.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> I have heard enough horror stories to recommend that people stay away >> from Lexmark if they intend to use Linux. When a Lexmark system works at >> all it's more likely accidental than any deliberate attempt at support. >> > [snip] > > I have a feeling of deja vu. You had made similar claims before and I > had chimed in to say that has not been my experience, at least with the > higher end Lexmark printers. I've had no trouble connecting > network-attached Lexmark Optra printers to various Linux distributions > and in every case, the features, such as additional trays, duplexing, > envelope feeders, were recognized in Linux. > You have to be careful here. Aren't the Optras high end and not cheap devices? Lexmark does make business level printers that work with Linux, but the cheap consumer market stuff doesn't. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 21:37:22 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:37:22 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <49270AA1.4010601-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <49270AA1.4010601@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49272A12.9070305@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > Salman Ahmed wrote: >> My years old Lexmark Optra laser printer is on its deathbed and I am >> looking to replace it with a current similar laser printer. >> >> I am looking for recommendations for a low-cost mono laser printer >> that is Linux-compatible and easy to setup under Linux. Network >> support is not required as this printer will just be direct-attached >> to a PC. Ideally I want to spend < $100.00. > > Last year, I bought a Dell printer that was made by Samsung. I don't > recall the model and I'm not at home right now, but it is supported in > Linux, by using the Samsung drivers. Brother printers also include > Linux support. > It's a Dell 1110. http://www.openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Dell-1110 -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 22:11:30 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:11:30 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <685188.77880.qm-r6rlgsx/m2yB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <685188.77880.qm@web51806.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49273212.3060403@pppoe.ca> Salman Ahmed wrote: > My budget for the printer is the first priority so that rules out the nice Brother model that Madison recommended. The Samsung model for $69.99 at FS sounds interesting - I just need to check how well its supported under Linux. If I can find a Brother model close to $100 I'd prefer to go for it as their printers seem to be very well regarded even if they are on the pricier side. > > Evan: thanks for the link to the OpenPrinting database, I'll be cross-checking my selections through there. If possible, buy from a source that you can return without hassle. Even though the database may state that the printer is compatible, you may encounter surprises with your distro and version. I was using a Samsung ML-2250 and am using a ML-2010 at present. > Strangely enough, my 8+ year old Lexmark Optra E312 is really well supported under Linux through CUPS and and lpd/lprng. > > Thanks for the replies everyone. > > > > Salman Ahmed > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 22:45:12 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:45:12 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <49271263.9010505-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4927000E.8090109@rogers.com> <14681.173.34.8.54.1227294887.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <49271263.9010505@telly.org> Message-ID: <20081121224512.GN5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 02:56:19PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I have heard enough horror stories to recommend that people stay away > from Lexmark if they intend to use Linux. When a Lexmark system works at > all it's more likely accidental than any deliberate attempt at support. > > Generally the common wisdom I follow is that HP support is the best, > followed closely by Brother which is also very good. Cannon and Lexmark > are to be avoided, and most of the rest (Epson, Samsung, etc) have > support that can be good but is inconsistent. HP does a great job supporting linux for their printers these days. I still think their inkjets print rather poor quality, and some are very unreliable. For inkjets, nothing beats an epson in print quality. gutenprint tends to get support for all the epsons pretty soon after they are released, so they tend to end up supported very well. It's not support from epson (other than they do provide documentation), while HP actually writes the open source drivers. For laser, so far I will continue to recommend xerox. They work great, and as long as you buy a postscript enabled version (which is most of them) they simply work and they work well. > Even if you find a Canon or Lexmark printer with some Linux support, if > the purchase decision is in your hands why not financially encourage > those for whom FOSS support is corporate policy? > > Of course, if you have the oppportunity, don't forget to consult the > printer database at openprinting.org -- > http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi Not always very up to date though. But it helps. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 21 22:47:00 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:47:00 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <7ac602420811211046t89ef883r40be896872457965-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <7ac602420811211046t89ef883r40be896872457965@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081121224700.GO5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:46:25AM -0800, Ian Petersen wrote: > I have a Xerox Phaser of some sort that I got at Costco. It's a > colour laser with network support and full Linux support (the > installation CD included PPDs!) and I got it for $399 delivered. > Xerox may have cheaper mono printers available, too. A coworker just got the 6130N from costco a couple of weeks ago for about $270 or so including shipping. They don't seem to have anymore, and the rebate probably expired too by now. That was a very good price for a full postscript colour laser. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 22 03:40:00 2008 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:40:00 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <4927228B.1040901-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4927000E.8090109@rogers.com> <14681.173.34.8.54.1227294887.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <49271263.9010505@telly.org> <4927228B.1040901@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <49277F10.1030303@teksavvy.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> I have heard enough horror stories to recommend that people stay away >> from Lexmark if they intend to use Linux. When a Lexmark system works at >> all it's more likely accidental than any deliberate attempt at support. > [snip] > > I have a feeling of deja vu. You had made similar claims before and I > had chimed in to say that has not been my experience, at least with the > higher end Lexmark printers. I've had no trouble connecting > network-attached Lexmark Optra printers to various Linux distributions > and in every case, the features, such as additional trays, duplexing, > envelope feeders, were recognized in Linux. I have a Lexmark E250dn, and while I don't entirely agree with Evan that any support you get is accidental, there is some truth to his statement. I should note that the printer is attached to my home machine and is not in a networking environment. This printer came with a cd that has a Linux driver and a java-based gui control panel. I tried installing the gui. First, I had to convert the rpm to a .tgz with rpm2tgz (I run Slackware). I found the package was installed in the wrong place (/usr/local/lexmark). It wouldn't start until I moved the directory unix_prt_drivers to /usr and changed the name to lexprint (/usr/lexprint). Then, when I tried to start the gui, it wouldn't open because it said it couldn't find the driver for my printer. It turned out that the gui package was made before my printer existed. I went to the Lexmark site and found a driver update for my printer. Great, I thought, I'll download it and away I go. Before I did, I figured I'd better read the installation procedure. It turns out that you must install the driver through the gui--the same gui that won't open up because the driver isn't there. I then went to the Linux printer site and found a link to the correct ppd file. It turns out you can install the ppd file easily through cups. And you really need the link from the Linux printer site, because if you try to find that page through the Lexmark site, you'll need the help of a Sherpa guide and a St. Bernard with a full barrel of whisky. It's not easily found. Anyway, the printer works well (all of the features work as advertised), and I'm pleased with it. I'm just not pleased with the crappy software provided by Lexmark. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 22 15:21:14 2008 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:21:14 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <373229.89085.qm-1iSqG+Z3bMiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081122102114.b29e62d4.hgibson@eol.ca> On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:11:17 -0800 (PST) Salman Ahmed wrote: > My years old Lexmark Optra laser printer is on its deathbed and I am looking to replace it with a current similar laser printer. > > I am looking for recommendations for a low-cost mono laser printer that is Linux-compatible and easy to setup under Linux. Network support is not required as this printer will just be direct-attached to a PC. Ideally I want to spend < $100.00. > > Thanks! Salman, The cheap printers all are ink-jet. I was under the impression that laser printers were PostScript. Any PostScript printer is Linux compatible to the extent that you do not need GhostScript. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 22 15:45:47 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:45:47 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <20081122102114.b29e62d4.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20081122102114.b29e62d4.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4928292B.6040505@pppoe.ca> > On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:11:17 -0800 (PST) > Salman Ahmed wrote: > > >> My years old Lexmark Optra laser printer is on its deathbed and I am looking to replace it with a current similar laser printer. >> >> I am looking for recommendations for a low-cost mono laser printer that is Linux-compatible and easy to setup under Linux. Network support is not required as this printer will just be direct-attached to a PC. Ideally I want to spend < $100.00. >> >> Thanks! >> If I were looking at a cheap B/W laser printer, I'd check this out :-) http://www.openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Samsung-ML-1640 BW laser printer, max. 1200x600 dpi, works Perfectly Recommended driver: *ML-1640/XAA Unified Linux Driver * Generic instructions for: CUPS , LPD , LPRng , PPR , PDQ , no spooler User-contributed Printer Entry This printer entry is not yet included in the Foomatic packages and the data on this page is not verified or proofread. http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=019597&cid=PR.392.276 Everyday Low Price: * $47.99* Promotional Cash Price: * $46.99 * -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 22 16:46:39 2008 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:46:39 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <20081122102114.b29e62d4.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20081122102114.b29e62d4.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <200811221146.39384.dbmacg@look.ca> I see PC Village http://www.pcvonline.com/Products.aspx?CategoryID=24592&23889 has the Samsung ML-1640 laser printer available at $57.95 . (That's pretty cheap) Not all laser printers are Postscript. A laser printer connected to a Linux box will appear to other computers as a Postscript printer, however. So a Windows box can connect over the LAN to my Linux-connected and *definitely-not-postscript* printer as an Apple Laserwriter. Linux allows Windows to do that. Duncan On Saturday 22 November 2008 10:21:14 Howard Gibson wrote: > On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:11:17 -0800 (PST) > > Salman Ahmed wrote: > > My years old Lexmark Optra laser printer is on its deathbed and I am > > looking to replace it with a current similar laser printer. > > > > I am looking for recommendations for a low-cost mono laser printer that > > is Linux-compatible and easy to setup under Linux. Network support is not > > required as this printer will just be direct-attached to a PC. Ideally I > > want to spend < $100.00. > > > > Thanks! > > Salman, > > The cheap printers all are ink-jet. > > I was under the impression that laser printers were PostScript. Any > PostScript printer is Linux compatible to the extent that you do not need > GhostScript. -- Duncan MacGregor --- Toronto --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 22 16:51:02 2008 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:51:02 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <20081122102114.b29e62d4.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20081122102114.b29e62d4.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <200811221151.02980.dbmacg@look.ca> The Samsung ML-1640 ($57.95) comes with a half-full toner cartridge good for 700 pages. A 1500-page cartridge is about 60 bucks. Duncan On Saturday 22 November 2008 10:21:14 Howard Gibson wrote: > On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:11:17 -0800 (PST) > > Salman Ahmed wrote: > > My years old Lexmark Optra laser printer is on its deathbed and I am > > looking to replace it with a current similar laser printer. > > > > I am looking for recommendations for a low-cost mono laser printer that > > is Linux-compatible and easy to setup under Linux. Network support is not > > required as this printer will just be direct-attached to a PC. Ideally I > > want to spend < $100.00. > > > > Thanks! > > Salman, > > The cheap printers all are ink-jet. > > I was under the impression that laser printers were PostScript. Any > PostScript printer is Linux compatible to the extent that you do not need > GhostScript. -- Duncan MacGregor --- Toronto --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 22 17:09:40 2008 From: fia_wrc_fanatic-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Salman Ahmed) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:09:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <200811221151.02980.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <200811221151.02980.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <540513.33071.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > From: Duncan MacGregor > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 11:51 AM > > The Samsung ML-1640 ($57.95) comes with a half-full toner > cartridge good for > 700 pages. A 1500-page cartridge is about 60 bucks. > > Duncan > What about the Samsung ML-2510? It's listed at FutureShop for $99.97. Does it come with a half-full toner cartridge? Salman Ahmed -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 22 17:52:16 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:52:16 -0500 Subject: Gnumeric question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hallo, > I'm not sure what you mean by "compare." In Excel, they is a tool I think under option that one can use to essentially check the difference of value in two columns, its just a fancy too for what we are doing below > What you seem to be describing putting a formula in one cell, and > having it be applied to other cells. Correct > In *most* spreadsheets, you have to do that by putting the formula in > the first cell, and then copying from that cell to the others. > > The way I would accomplish that would be by "copying" the value in > cell E2; put the cursor on it, then select "Copy". (control-C; menu > entry "Edit/Copy"). > > Then, I would highlight the region I want to copy it into (e.g. - > select cells E2 thru E6), and select "Paste" (control-V; menu entry > "Edit/Paste"). Thanks, it worked. I did use it yesterday successfully. Initially, I was double clicking and then ending up taking the formula. > Lotus Improv introduced the notion of having a single formula applied > automatically to an entire row or column; there has never been any > port of this to Linux. There was a successor to Improv, called > Quantrix, which runs only on Windows and MacOS. There is a clone of > Quantrix available on SourceForge called FlexiSheet; it only runs on > MacOS. > Thanks William > At any rate, applying a single function to many cells isn't something > that spreadsheets usually support. If you want a function used > everywhere, they provide "copy/paste" to copy it into all those > places. > > You won't find OpenOffice is materially different from Gnumeric, by > the way; they both have the same basis for their set of functionality, > as they are both basically tracking the base feature set of Microsoft > Excel. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/spreadsheets.html > "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and > expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert > Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 22 17:57:39 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:57:39 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <540513.33071.qm-0ht2EKPqlcyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <540513.33071.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49284813.10001@pppoe.ca> Salman Ahmed wrote: > --- On Sat, 11/22/08, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > > >> From: Duncan MacGregor >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 11:51 AM >> >> The Samsung ML-1640 ($57.95) comes with a half-full toner >> cartridge good for >> 700 pages. A 1500-page cartridge is about 60 bucks. >> >> Duncan >> >> > > What about the Samsung ML-2510? It's listed at FutureShop for $99.97. Does it come with a half-full toner cartridge? > > > > Salman Ahmed > The toner cartridges that come with the printers are known as "starter cartridges". They are just to start you off so they are about half-full. The ML-2510 is $59.96 at Staples. Delivery is free and there is a 30-day return policy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 22 18:01:37 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:01:37 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <540513.33071.qm-0ht2EKPqlcyB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <540513.33071.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49284901.2060106@rogers.com> Salman Ahmed wrote: > > What about the Samsung ML-2510? It's listed at FutureShop for $99.97. Does it come with a half-full toner cartridge? All consumer grade laser printers come with a "starter" cartridge that is half to two thirds full. Remember that the manufacturers' profit comes from selling us ink / toner repeatedly, not from selling us the machines. John John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 22 18:13:57 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:13:57 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <49284901.2060106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <540513.33071.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <49284901.2060106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880811221013o152f6cboc1700f49fba4bc53@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, I've used a Samsung ML-2510 and it works well. Its fairly easy to install but you need to follow the instructions on http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/OpenPrinting. Its basically copying the filter and ppd files. On the pricing side, I know lots of people who buy new printers instead of new ink, on cheaper laser printers. I don't know if there's value in that or not. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 22 18:15:04 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:15:04 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880811221013o152f6cboc1700f49fba4bc53-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <540513.33071.qm@web51811.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <49284901.2060106@rogers.com> <32f6a8880811221013o152f6cboc1700f49fba4bc53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880811221015l2b0f8176jf0e738d3cfe21a03@mail.gmail.com> Hi, On another note that printer was installed on dapper ubuntu and hardy ubuntu. And I did some prices and its about 50-75 bucks for that printer. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 02:20:25 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:20:25 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <49271263.9010505-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4927000E.8090109@rogers.com> <14681.173.34.8.54.1227294887.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <49271263.9010505@telly.org> Message-ID: <3a97ef0811231820w27082dd5yb9ed4fd70599d9e2@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I have a Samsung ML2250 that was major grief to attach to a Suse Linux > system. I got it to be recognized as a Laserjet and it sort of worked, but > the software was never entirely reliable. Samsung claimed it was Linux > compatable, but their software did not install correctly. > > Now I have a Lexmark C530DN, and again, the Linux software does not > install and correctly. The printer works, but many of the features are not > available from Linux under Suse 10.3. > > > I have heard enough horror stories to recommend that people stay away from > Lexmark if they intend to use Linux. When a Lexmark system works at all it's > more likely accidental than any deliberate attempt at support. > > Generally the common wisdom I follow is that HP support is the best, > followed closely by Brother which is also very good. Cannon and Lexmark are > to be avoided, and most of the rest (Epson, Samsung, etc) have support that > can be good but is inconsistent. > > Even if you find a Canon or Lexmark printer with some Linux support, if the > purchase decision is in your hands why not financially encourage those for > whom FOSS support is corporate policy? > > Of course, if you have the oppportunity, don't forget to consult the printer > database at openprinting.org -- http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi > > - Evan > > > I've never really tried some of the newer ones, but I actually had pretty good luck with the older Optra models under Linux. Heck, but big ones even worked under LPR before I moved to CUPS. It's hard to go wrong with a good HP though, as I've yet to have one that didn't work well for whatever OS I threw at it (although to be fair my Laserjet 1018 does require an annoying firmware upload to be thrown at it after it's powered on). - TJA -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 14:35:25 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:35:25 -0500 Subject: What is a master reseller - Novell Message-ID: Hi pals, I just came across the article below and there was a reference of the word "master reseller". Now curious, whats the difference between reseller and master reseller? A business question, but nevertheless, good to know. http://www2.userful.com/partners/our-partners/partner-locator Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 15:10:42 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:10:42 -0500 Subject: Merchant software Message-ID: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> Hi all, No doubt this has been asked before, but things change so quickly. :) A friend has started a small, at home business selling customized children's books. Basically, he needs a merchant app that can take a customer's billing, shipping and a couple custom fields. Specifically, the names of the child and their friends/family to work into the story. It doesn't need to do much more than that beyond handling credit card orders. Are there any open source programs out there I could look at? Has anyone here had any success with such a program In case it matters, the host server is Debian Sarge. Cheers! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 15:12:08 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:12:08 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <20081122102114.b29e62d4.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20081122102114.b29e62d4.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20081124151208.GP5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:21:14AM -0500, Howard Gibson wrote: > Salman, > > The cheap printers all are ink-jet. There are cheap lasers too. Like inkjets they tend to require all processing to be done by the host. > I was under the impression that laser printers were PostScript. Any PostScript printer is Linux compatible to the extent that you do not need GhostScript. Only the good laser printers have postscript. Most do not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 15:16:51 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:16:51 -0500 Subject: Merchant software In-Reply-To: <492AC3F2.3060405-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20081124151650.GQ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:10:42AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > No doubt this has been asked before, but things change so quickly. :) > > A friend has started a small, at home business selling customized > children's books. Basically, he needs a merchant app that can take a > customer's billing, shipping and a couple custom fields. Specifically, > the names of the child and their friends/family to work into the story. > > It doesn't need to do much more than that beyond handling credit card > orders. Are there any open source programs out there I could look at? > Has anyone here had any success with such a program > > In case it matters, the host server is Debian Sarge. Ehm, that doesn't have security updates anymore. You better not consider that for processing credit cards. It's way beyond time to upgrade. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 15:23:02 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:23:02 -0500 Subject: Merchant software In-Reply-To: <20081124151650.GQ5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> <20081124151650.GQ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <492AC6D6.70106@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> In case it matters, the host server is Debian Sarge. > > Ehm, that doesn't have security updates anymore. You better not > consider that for processing credit cards. > > It's way beyond time to upgrade. My bad, it's Etch. I got my names mixed up. (Debian 4.0). Thanks for catching that, and yes, it would have been very much time to upgrade! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 15:47:56 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:47:56 -0500 Subject: Merchant software In-Reply-To: <492AC6D6.70106-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> <20081124151650.GQ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492AC6D6.70106@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0811240747x5f200b84m17b1ee69a57c1bff@mail.gmail.com> This actually brings up something I've been wondering about for awhile. Some people often use a specific distribution/version name in their sources.list, e.g "etch" I've tended to use the alias of "stable" or "unstable" etc. Any specific reason one would use the named "etch" instead of stable? - TJA On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> >>> In case it matters, the host server is Debian Sarge. >> >> Ehm, that doesn't have security updates anymore. You better not >> consider that for processing credit cards. >> >> It's way beyond time to upgrade. > > My bad, it's Etch. I got my names mixed up. (Debian 4.0). > > Thanks for catching that, and yes, it would have been very much time to > upgrade! > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 16:04:38 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:04:38 -0500 Subject: Merchant software In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0811240747x5f200b84m17b1ee69a57c1bff-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> <20081124151650.GQ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492AC6D6.70106@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0811240747x5f200b84m17b1ee69a57c1bff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <492AD096.6040205@alteeve.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > This actually brings up something I've been wondering about for awhile. > > Some people often use a specific distribution/version name in their > sources.list, e.g "etch" > I've tended to use the alias of "stable" or "unstable" etc. Any > specific reason one would use the named "etch" instead of stable? > > > - TJA Personally, I prefer the name because 'stable' and similar names are moving targets. If you search in a year or two and you saw the name 'stable' in relation to some data, it may cause confusion. At least, that's my half-arsed rational. :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomson.dan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 16:14:45 2008 From: thomson.dan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dan Thomson) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:14:45 -0500 Subject: Merchant software In-Reply-To: <492AD096.6040205-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> <20081124151650.GQ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492AC6D6.70106@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0811240747x5f200b84m17b1ee69a57c1bff@mail.gmail.com> <492AD096.6040205@alteeve.com> Message-ID: I think that when Debian was updated to etch, they started encouraging people to explicilty say "sarge", "etch", "lenny" etc. since that would eliminate potential confusion when "testing" becomes "stable" and "stable" becomes "oldstable". That makes more sense to me. If you upgrade to the next dist, you're going to want to explicitly say so by updating your sources IMO. The idea of auto dist-upgrade gives me the willies :) Oh. I just reread what you wrote. I guess it would've been simpler to say "I agree" :) 2008/11/24 Madison Kelly : > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> This actually brings up something I've been wondering about for awhile. >> >> Some people often use a specific distribution/version name in their >> sources.list, e.g "etch" >> I've tended to use the alias of "stable" or "unstable" etc. Any >> specific reason one would use the named "etch" instead of stable? >> >> >> - TJA > > Personally, I prefer the name because 'stable' and similar names are moving > targets. If you search in a year or two and you saw the name 'stable' in > relation to some data, it may cause confusion. > > At least, that's my half-arsed rational. :) > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dan Thomson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 17:05:55 2008 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:05:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: TLUG vs. NewTLUG Message-ID: <28003.216.59.248.96.1227546355.squirrel@lavabit.com> Hi, I'm new to TLUG (and I consider myself new to Toronto too). Hello everyone! I'm wondering where can I read more about TLUG vs. NewTLUG (I've found info on TLUG, http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/About . But I can't find info on NewTLUG). I don't want to start a "religious" war between the two groups, but just want to know better of two groups, e.g., the purpose and dynamic, etc, so that I can tell which one (or both) better suit(s) me. Also, from the welcome message of the tlug mailing: > The administrator would like to welcome you to one or more of the > following mailing lists: > > TLUG > NewTLUG But I get an error message when trying to subscribe to NewTLUG: >>>> subscribe NewTLUG **** subscribe: unknown list 'NewTLUG'. Any one can shed some light on this? Thanks Antonio T. Sun -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 17:25:01 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:25:01 -0500 Subject: Merchant software In-Reply-To: References: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> <20081124151650.GQ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492AC6D6.70106@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0811240747x5f200b84m17b1ee69a57c1bff@mail.gmail.com> <492AD096.6040205@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20081124172501.GA17734@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:14:45AM -0500, Dan Thomson wrote: >I think that when Debian was updated to etch, they started encouraging >people to explicilty say "sarge", "etch", "lenny" etc. since that >would eliminate potential confusion when "testing" becomes "stable" >and "stable" becomes "oldstable". > >That makes more sense to me. If you upgrade to the next dist, you're >going to want to explicitly say so by updating your sources IMO. The >idea of auto dist-upgrade gives me the willies :) I use Debian expressly because apt dist-upgrade works so well. I have been using it on one machine since woody, and another since lenny. When Debian moved from XFree86 or Xorg, it just worked, and similarly, my kernel has updated repeatedly with nothing more than a reboot. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 17:30:06 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:30:06 -0500 Subject: Merchant software In-Reply-To: <492AC3F2.3060405-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <492AE49E.5050103@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > No doubt this has been asked before, but things change so quickly. :) > > A friend has started a small, at home business selling customized > children's books. Basically, he needs a merchant app that can take a > customer's billing, shipping and a couple custom fields. Specifically, > the names of the child and their friends/family to work into the story. > > I was involved in a similar situation for a small cultural not-for-profit that was looking for a way to market its memberships and merchandise on-line. As you've probably found out, there isn't a lot available for micro retail operations. One solution is to set up a website that can handle all the text registration info with a link to Pay Pal Canada to handle on-line payments and then use GnuCash for the company's books and to manually issue invoices / record payments for in person purchases. Your friend should expect to increase his product's price by $5.00 to cover the Pay Pal and credit card process fees. http://www.paypal.ca/ca/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_home Another possible solution is a complete on-line hosted operation like GoECart. There are a couple of downsides though. At approximately $3000.00/yr its pricey for a micro business and it's automated data feed requires Quick Books which means added start up costs of Cross Over Office and a Quick Books license. http://www.goecart.com/shopping_cart_software_price.asp Sorry that I couldn't be more helpful, it's just that there's not much available that caters to the micro-business market place. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 17:49:58 2008 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:49:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Merchant software In-Reply-To: <492AE49E.5050103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> <492AE49E.5050103@rogers.com> Message-ID: <37261.216.59.248.96.1227548998.squirrel@lavabit.com> > Madison Kelly wrote: >> >> A friend has started a small, at home business selling customized >> children's books. Basically, he needs a merchant app that can take a >> customer's billing, shipping and a couple custom fields. Specifically, >> the names of the child and their friends/family to work into the story. >> >> > I was involved in a similar situation for a small cultural > not-for-profit that was looking for a way to market its memberships and > merchandise on-line. . . Your friend should expect to increase his product's > price by $5.00 to cover the Pay Pal and credit card process fees. > http://www.paypal.ca/ca/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_home > > Another possible solution is a complete on-line hosted operation like > GoECart. There are a couple of downsides though. At approximately > $3000.00/yr its pricey for a micro business and it's automated data feed > requires Quick Books which means added start up costs of Cross Over > Office and a Quick Books license. > http://www.goecart.com/shopping_cart_software_price.asp > > Sorry that I couldn't be more helpful, it's just that there's not much > available that caters to the micro-business market place. Or, if you want to save more on the on-going overhead, custom build a web site of your own using osCommerce. The osCommerce is free, and your customer can choose from paying by credit card directly, or $5 more with Pay Pal. I custom built such osCommerce site for my client several years ago. Antonio -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 17:50:48 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:50:48 -0500 Subject: Merchant software In-Reply-To: <492AC3F2.3060405-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <492AE978.4090101@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > No doubt this has been asked before, but things change so quickly. :) > > A friend has started a small, at home business selling customized > children's books. Basically, he needs a merchant app that can take a > customer's billing, shipping and a couple custom fields. Specifically, > the names of the child and their friends/family to work into the story. > > It doesn't need to do much more than that beyond handling credit card > orders. Are there any open source programs out there I could look at? > Has anyone here had any success with such a program > > In case it matters, the host server is Debian Sarge. > > Cheers! Drupal has an ecommerce module that accepts paypal and can be setup with authorize.net for cc processing. Handles shipping too. Add in Drupal's cck module for the custom fields and you're all set: http://drupal.org/project/ecommerce Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 17:59:12 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:59:12 -0500 Subject: TLUG vs. NewTLUG In-Reply-To: <28003.216.59.248.96.1227546355.squirrel-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <28003.216.59.248.96.1227546355.squirrel@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <492AEB70.3010305@alteeve.com> antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi, > > I'm new to TLUG (and I consider myself new to Toronto too). > Hello everyone! > > I'm wondering where can I read more about TLUG vs. NewTLUG (I've found info > on TLUG, http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/About . But I can't find info on NewTLUG). > > I don't want to start a "religious" war between the two groups, but just > want to know better of two groups, e.g., the purpose and dynamic, etc, so > that I can tell which one (or both) better suit(s) me. > > Also, from the welcome message of the tlug mailing: They're actually very complimentary groups. :) NewTLUG is aimed at newer users to Linux where TLUG proper tends to be more technical. The associated meetings reflect this. NewTLUG will generally cover more introductory topics like how to use the terminal where TLUG would cover a specific technology like the innards of a programming language. Madi PS - Welcome to TO! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 18:02:27 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:02:27 -0500 Subject: Merchant software In-Reply-To: <492AE49E.5050103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> <492AE49E.5050103@rogers.com> Message-ID: <492AEC33.3070901@alteeve.com> John McGregor wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> No doubt this has been asked before, but things change so quickly. :) >> >> A friend has started a small, at home business selling customized >> children's books. Basically, he needs a merchant app that can take a >> customer's billing, shipping and a couple custom fields. Specifically, >> the names of the child and their friends/family to work into the story. >> >> > I was involved in a similar situation for a small cultural > not-for-profit that was looking for a way to market its memberships and > merchandise on-line. As you've probably found out, there isn't a lot > available for micro retail operations. One solution is to set up a > website that can handle all the text registration info with a link to > Pay Pal Canada to handle on-line payments and then use GnuCash for the > company's books and to manually issue invoices / record payments for in > person purchases. Your friend should expect to increase his product's > price by $5.00 to cover the Pay Pal and credit card process fees. > http://www.paypal.ca/ca/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_home > > Another possible solution is a complete on-line hosted operation like > GoECart. There are a couple of downsides though. At approximately > $3000.00/yr its pricey for a micro business and it's automated data feed > requires Quick Books which means added start up costs of Cross Over > Office and a Quick Books license. > http://www.goecart.com/shopping_cart_software_price.asp > > Sorry that I couldn't be more helpful, it's just that there's not much > available that caters to the micro-business market place. > > John Thanks John. Neither are very good options in this case as the books sell for quite little. A $5 increase would represent tens of percent increase in price and the $3k would probably eat more than too much profit. This is a business he's running to help cover bills while he goes to nursing school. Thanks for the info! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 18:03:08 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:03:08 -0500 Subject: Merchant software In-Reply-To: <37261.216.59.248.96.1227548998.squirrel-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> <492AE49E.5050103@rogers.com> <37261.216.59.248.96.1227548998.squirrel@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <492AEC5C.1020304@alteeve.com> antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: >> Madison Kelly wrote: >>> A friend has started a small, at home business selling customized >>> children's books. Basically, he needs a merchant app that can take a >>> customer's billing, shipping and a couple custom fields. Specifically, >>> the names of the child and their friends/family to work into the story. >>> >>> >> I was involved in a similar situation for a small cultural >> not-for-profit that was looking for a way to market its memberships and >> merchandise on-line. . . Your friend should expect to increase his > product's >> price by $5.00 to cover the Pay Pal and credit card process fees. >> http://www.paypal.ca/ca/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_home >> >> Another possible solution is a complete on-line hosted operation like >> GoECart. There are a couple of downsides though. At approximately >> $3000.00/yr its pricey for a micro business and it's automated data feed >> requires Quick Books which means added start up costs of Cross Over >> Office and a Quick Books license. >> http://www.goecart.com/shopping_cart_software_price.asp >> >> Sorry that I couldn't be more helpful, it's just that there's not much >> available that caters to the micro-business market place. > > Or, if you want to save more on the on-going overhead, custom build a web > site of your own using osCommerce. The osCommerce is free, and your > customer can choose from paying by credit card directly, or $5 more with > Pay Pal. > > I custom built such osCommerce site for my client several years ago. > > Antonio I'm not familiar with osCommerce... I will take a look at it, thank you! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 18:03:39 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:03:39 -0500 Subject: Merchant software In-Reply-To: <492AE978.4090101-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> <492AE978.4090101@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <492AEC7B.60807@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> No doubt this has been asked before, but things change so quickly. :) >> >> A friend has started a small, at home business selling customized >> children's books. Basically, he needs a merchant app that can take a >> customer's billing, shipping and a couple custom fields. Specifically, >> the names of the child and their friends/family to work into the story. >> >> It doesn't need to do much more than that beyond handling credit card >> orders. Are there any open source programs out there I could look at? >> Has anyone here had any success with such a program >> >> In case it matters, the host server is Debian Sarge. >> >> Cheers! > > Drupal has an ecommerce module that accepts paypal and can be setup with > authorize.net for cc processing. Handles shipping too. Add in Drupal's > cck module for the custom fields and you're all set: > http://drupal.org/project/ecommerce > > Jamon Thank you, I will look into this, too! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 18:14:07 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:14:07 -0500 Subject: Merchant software In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0811240747x5f200b84m17b1ee69a57c1bff-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <492AC3F2.3060405@alteeve.com> <20081124151650.GQ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492AC6D6.70106@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0811240747x5f200b84m17b1ee69a57c1bff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081124181407.GR5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:47:56AM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > This actually brings up something I've been wondering about for awhile. > > Some people often use a specific distribution/version name in their > sources.list, e.g "etch" > I've tended to use the alias of "stable" or "unstable" etc. Any > specific reason one would use the named "etch" instead of stable? If you use the release name, then you won't get a huge surprise the day debian releases the next version. You get to pick when you change and upgrade to the next release. Also if you want to track the development of lenny and follow it into release as stable, you would use lenny rather than testing is your release. Testing tends to get interesting right after a release as suddenly the floodgates open and piles of new stuff moves in. If you just want to always have stable or always testing, then that is the tag you would use in sources.list. sid and unstable are always identical so either one works there. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 19:42:51 2008 From: antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:42:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: TLUG vs. NewTLUG In-Reply-To: <492AEB70.3010305-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <28003.216.59.248.96.1227546355.squirrel@lavabit.com> <492AEB70.3010305@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <5320.216.59.248.96.1227555771.squirrel@lavabit.com> Thanks a lot Madison. > antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: >> >> I'm new to TLUG. . . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Nov 24 20:49:28 2008 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:49:28 -0500 Subject: TLUG vs. NewTLUG In-Reply-To: <492AEB70.3010305-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <28003.216.59.248.96.1227546355.squirrel@lavabit.com> <492AEB70.3010305@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <492B1358.3060902@buynet.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > antoniosun-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: >> I don't want to start a "religious" war between the two groups, but just >> want to know better of two groups, e.g., the purpose and dynamic, etc, so >> that I can tell which one (or both) better suit(s) me. > > They're actually very complimentary groups. :) > > NewTLUG is aimed at newer users to Linux where TLUG proper tends to be > more technical. The associated meetings reflect this. NewTLUG will > generally cover more introductory topics like how to use the terminal > where TLUG would cover a specific technology like the innards of a > programming language. ...and NewTLUGers drink less beer. ...NewTLUG talks tend to be more "howto" as opposed to "whatis" ...there is a NewTLUG meeting tomorrow (Tues), see the recent announcement or: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/NewTlug_Meetings:2008-11-25 Herb Richter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 01:43:23 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:43:23 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <20081124151208.GP5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20081122102114.b29e62d4.hgibson@eol.ca> <20081124151208.GP5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0811241743q36bc90bfj59e016da08ffd794@mail.gmail.com> This one's postscript: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3575358&Sku=O11-B2400%20CA&SRCCODE=CANEM1287&cm_mmc=Email-_-CanadaMain-_-CANEM1287-_-shipping It's an Okidata. We used to have one at my former employer which was a real tank, but it was also really old so I really can't make much of a statement as to the quality of more recent models. As a postscript printer it should work well enough with Linux. The output is only 200x600dpi as well, but it's probably good for text if that's what you're after. On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:21:14AM -0500, Howard Gibson wrote: >> Salman, >> >> The cheap printers all are ink-jet. > > There are cheap lasers too. Like inkjets they tend to require all > processing to be done by the host. > >> I was under the impression that laser printers were PostScript. Any PostScript printer is Linux compatible to the extent that you do not need GhostScript. > > Only the good laser printers have postscript. Most do not. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 03:30:03 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:30:03 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <373229.89085.qm-1iSqG+Z3bMiB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081125033003.GA20923@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On a similar topic, I recently purchased a Lexmark C500n, which is working very nicely for my Windows user, but I was hoping it would work for me, too. Linuxprinting.org (http://openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Lexmark-C500n) suggests that this printer should work, and so far, it almost is :-) I am new to CUPS, so I may have screwed something up, but I was able to add the printer with no trouble, and yet, when I send a test page, it seems to be fine from my end, but the printer doesn't respond. The access and error logs look fine, but something isn't working. Is there somewhere else I should look? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 04:15:22 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:15:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0811241743q36bc90bfj59e016da08ffd794-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20081122102114.b29e62d4.hgibson@eol.ca> <20081124151208.GP5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0811241743q36bc90bfj59e016da08ffd794@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Tyler Aviss | This one's postscript: | | http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3575358&Sku=O11-B2400%20CA&SRCCODE=CANEM1287&cm_mmc=Email-_-CanadaMain-_-CANEM1287-_-shipping | | It's an Okidata. We used to have one at my former employer which was a | real tank, but it was also really old so I really can't make much of a | statement as to the quality of more recent models. The list price being $229.99 suggests it might be well-built. | As a postscript printer it should work well enough with Linux. The | output is only 200x600dpi as well, but it's probably good for text if | that's what you're after. I'm pretty sure that the resolution is 1200 x 600. Until Wednesday (I think) Tiger Direct has cheap shipping for orders over over $100. Otherwise their shipping is quire expensive. The specs on that page don't include PostScript. But the title does. I would check. PCL6 is probably good enough anyway. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 11:31:19 2008 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 06:31:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: first available close fedora mirror? Message-ID: can someone post when the first "local" fedora mirror opens up for f10? i actually have a tight deadline for an installation so, for me, the sooner, the better. thanks. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 13:49:49 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:49:49 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20081122102114.b29e62d4.hgibson@eol.ca> <20081124151208.GP5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0811241743q36bc90bfj59e016da08ffd794@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0811250549u75b49cb7x95cf485442d6e6f0@mail.gmail.com> Looks like they fixed the "200x600" thing, as it's now showing 1200x600. I didn't think that made sense for a laser. On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:15 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Tyler Aviss > > | This one's postscript: > | > | http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3575358&Sku=O11-B2400%20CA&SRCCODE=CANEM1287&cm_mmc=Email-_-CanadaMain-_-CANEM1287-_-shipping > | > | It's an Okidata. We used to have one at my former employer which was a > | real tank, but it was also really old so I really can't make much of a > | statement as to the quality of more recent models. > > The list price being $229.99 suggests it might be well-built. > > | As a postscript printer it should work well enough with Linux. The > | output is only 200x600dpi as well, but it's probably good for text if > | that's what you're after. > > I'm pretty sure that the resolution is 1200 x 600. > > Until Wednesday (I think) Tiger Direct has cheap shipping for orders > over over $100. Otherwise their shipping is quire expensive. > > The specs on that page don't include PostScript. But the title does. > I would check. PCL6 is probably good enough anyway. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 14:33:33 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:33:33 -0500 Subject: need some help beta testing an install script Message-ID: <200811250933.33597.icanprogram@295.ca> I've created a streamlined install script for my SIMPL book sample code. http://www.icanprogram.com/simplBook/simplBook.self.html As with all things of this nature there is only so far one can go unit testing individual elements of installation scripts. My Linux systems here all have SIMPL installed 50 ways to Sunday and as a result I'm a very poor beta test platform. Besides I'm the author of the thing, and authors make very bad beta testers of their own stuff. I'm looking for some volunteers who are willing to spend the time reviewing my script and then to try it out against their particular Linux configuration. Thanks in advance. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 14:39:10 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:39:10 -0500 Subject: Recommend a Linux-compatible Laser printer In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0811241743q36bc90bfj59e016da08ffd794-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <373229.89085.qm@web51804.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20081122102114.b29e62d4.hgibson@eol.ca> <20081124151208.GP5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0811241743q36bc90bfj59e016da08ffd794@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081125143910.GS5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 08:43:23PM -0500, Tyler Aviss wrote: > This one's postscript: > > http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3575358&Sku=O11-B2400%20CA&SRCCODE=CANEM1287&cm_mmc=Email-_-CanadaMain-_-CANEM1287-_-shipping > > It's an Okidata. We used to have one at my former employer which was a > real tank, but it was also really old so I really can't make much of a > statement as to the quality of more recent models. > > As a postscript printer it should work well enough with Linux. The > output is only 200x600dpi as well, but it's probably good for text if > that's what you're after. The specs clearly state that it is PCL5 and PCL6, but certainly isn't postscript. If it was they would mention it in the datasheet, which they do not. Oh and it is 1200x600dpi, which is perfectly normal for a laser printer. They pretty much can't get any higher (LED printers could go a bit higher, but a laser really can't). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 14:40:52 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:40:52 -0500 Subject: first available close fedora mirror? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081125144052.GT5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 06:31:19AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > can someone post when the first "local" fedora mirror opens up for > f10? i actually have a tight deadline for an installation so, for me, > the sooner, the better. thanks. You want to install a new release of fedore without giving them a few days to get rid of the biggest bugs while on a dealine? Are you sure about that? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 14:42:27 2008 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:42:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: first available close fedora mirror? In-Reply-To: <20081125144052.GT5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081125144052.GT5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 06:31:19AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > can someone post when the first "local" fedora mirror opens up for > > f10? i actually have a tight deadline for an installation so, for me, > > the sooner, the better. thanks. > > You want to install a new release of fedore without giving them a few > days to get rid of the biggest bugs while on a dealine? Are you sure > about that? i've been running f10 preview without incident, so all i want to do is start over with f10 so i have a known good release on top of which to do further upgrades when time permits. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 15:28:02 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:28:02 -0500 Subject: need some help beta testing an install script In-Reply-To: <200811250933.33597.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811250933.33597.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <20081125152802.GU5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 09:33:33AM -0500, bob 295 wrote: > I've created a streamlined install script for my SIMPL book sample code. > > http://www.icanprogram.com/simplBook/simplBook.self.html > > As with all things of this nature there is only so far one can go unit testing > individual elements of installation scripts. My Linux systems here all > have SIMPL installed 50 ways to Sunday and as a result I'm a very poor beta > test platform. Besides I'm the author of the thing, and authors make very > bad beta testers of their own stuff. > > I'm looking for some volunteers who are willing to spend the time reviewing my > script and then to try it out against their particular Linux configuration. Hmm, so a few comments: Tar file contains both a directory and a seperate file. This is really bad style. Please only include a single directory in the tar file to contain everything. No exceptions. A version number is generally a good idea. You just might update it some day. Mixed case is also very annoying, and discouraged. Packagename should be all lowercase as should commands unless you have a VERY good reason. What is the difference between sudoku, sudoku.seed and sudoku.working? Not to mention testing and core_chapter_code. In the manual install instructions, is the variable $TEST_HOME or $SIMPL_HOME or are they both used? Whatever is 'clobber' and where is the 'clean' target? Why doesn't the install target let me pass a variable to indicate where to install to? Don't use -i with make unless you know what you are doing (in which case you wouldn't do it). make has a -C option. Use it. DOn't use the shell to cd somewhere to run make. Don't use -s either in most cases. They are called CFLAGS not CDFLAGS. C = C compiler. LD = linker. -c and -o do not belong in the CFLAGS at all. You create world writeable directories. Are you nuts? I figured I could try and make a debian package of the code, but I now I am getting fed up fixing the Makefiles. :( It seems you followed the Makefiles of the simpl project, which certainly are among the ugliest things I have ever encountered. Perhaps this is why simpl isn't package for Debian. No one wants to touch that code. It's just too weird and non standard and too painful to try and set right for packaging up. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 16:09:02 2008 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:09:02 -0500 Subject: need some help beta testing an install script In-Reply-To: <20081125152802.GU5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200811250933.33597.icanprogram@295.ca> <20081125152802.GU5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <492C231E.2000708@linuxcaffe.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 09:33:33AM -0500, bob 295 wrote: >> I've created a streamlined install script for my SIMPL book sample code. [snip] >> I'm looking for some volunteers who are willing to spend the time reviewing my >> script and then to try it out against their particular Linux configuration. > > Hmm, so a few comments: Well Lennart, I think you just defined "clobber". Vastly and simultaneously scathing, educational and entertaining! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 16:18:27 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:18:27 -0500 Subject: first available close fedora mirror? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <492C2553.90005@alteeve.com> Robert P. J. Day wrote: > can someone post when the first "local" fedora mirror opens up for > f10? i actually have a tight deadline for an installation so, for me, > the sooner, the better. thanks. > > rday I'm downloading it to my server now. Give me about an hour and I'll post the link (for TLUG only, be kind to my server! :) ). Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 16:25:02 2008 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:25:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: first available close fedora mirror? In-Reply-To: <492C2553.90005-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <492C2553.90005@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Madison Kelly wrote: > Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > can someone post when the first "local" fedora mirror opens up for > > f10? i actually have a tight deadline for an installation so, for me, > > the sooner, the better. thanks. > > > > rday > > I'm downloading it to my server now. Give me about an hour and I'll > post the link (for TLUG only, be kind to my server! :) ). no problem, i'm already downloading, thanks. rday -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 16:34:07 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:34:07 -0500 Subject: need some help beta testing an install script In-Reply-To: <492C231E.2000708-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811250933.33597.icanprogram@295.ca> <20081125152802.GU5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492C231E.2000708@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <20081125163407.GV5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:09:02AM -0500, David J Patrick wrote: > Well Lennart, I think you just defined "clobber". > Vastly and simultaneously scathing, educational and entertaining! Well I tried to clean it up, then discovered simpl wasn't packaged, and then learned where that makefile style came from and got fed up. :) My experience is that projects that don't do things in a normal way tend to get ignored, so perhaps SIMPL really is going to get mostly ignored because no distribution is going to be willing to package it. Too bad, it sounds kind of neat. The project appears like it could use someone to give it a major build cleanup. Of course it also appears to use CVS which these days also tends to make volunteers hard to get. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 19:19:50 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:19:50 -0500 Subject: need some help beta testing an install script In-Reply-To: <20081125163407.GV5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200811250933.33597.icanprogram@295.ca> <20081125152802.GU5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492C231E.2000708@linuxcaffe.ca> <20081125163407.GV5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0811251119s3365fe73s1965bb5abff0dc02@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:09:02AM -0500, David J Patrick wrote: >> Well Lennart, I think you just defined "clobber". >> Vastly and simultaneously scathing, educational and entertaining! Lol. A pretty apt description I'd say. ;-) Fortunately (and as usual) Lennart's post has bunches of useful information. > Well I tried to clean it up, then discovered simpl wasn't packaged, and > then learned where that makefile style came from and got fed up. :) > > My experience is that projects that don't do things in a normal way tend > to get ignored, so perhaps SIMPL really is going to get mostly ignored > because no distribution is going to be willing to package it. Too bad, > it sounds kind of neat. The project appears like it could use someone > to give it a major build cleanup. Of course it also appears to use CVS > which these days also tends to make volunteers hard to get. Have to agree. I'm in the process of moving the Atomic OS project from Sourceforge to Google Code, in part because I want to start a fresh SVN repository for version 2. I haven't met any JavaScripters who're comfortable with CVS, including myself. (Of course there are other reasons for moving the project, but I'll post something on my blog about that in due time.) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 19:59:06 2008 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:59:06 -0500 Subject: first available close fedora mirror? In-Reply-To: <492C2553.90005-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <492C2553.90005@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <492C590A.9010709@totaltravelmarketing.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Robert P. J. Day wrote: >> can someone post when the first "local" fedora mirror opens up for >> f10? i actually have a tight deadline for an installation so, for me, >> the sooner, the better. thanks. >> >> rday > > I'm downloading it to my server now. Give me about an hour and I'll post > the link (for TLUG only, be kind to my server! :) ). > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Hi there I am finding their mirrors very slow, are you still planning to share the ISO? I would appreciate it Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 20:13:49 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:13:49 -0500 Subject: first available close fedora mirror? In-Reply-To: <492C590A.9010709-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <492C2553.90005@alteeve.com> <492C590A.9010709@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <492C5C7D.1040302@utoronto.ca> Jose wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: >> Robert P. J. Day wrote: >>> can someone post when the first "local" fedora mirror opens up for >>> f10? i actually have a tight deadline for an installation so, for me, >>> the sooner, the better. thanks. >>> >>> rday >> >> I'm downloading it to my server now. Give me about an hour and I'll >> post the link (for TLUG only, be kind to my server! :) ). >> >> Madi >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > Hi there > > I am finding their mirrors very slow, are you still planning to share > the ISO? > > I would appreciate it Use their torrents, it's much easier on bandwidth for the project and is faster than an overloaded mirror e.g. on the i686 live cd torrent there are 500 seeds and 800+ leeches, plenty fast enough. http://torrent.fedoraproject.org Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 20:34:06 2008 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:34:06 -0500 Subject: first available close fedora mirror? In-Reply-To: <492C5C7D.1040302-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <492C2553.90005@alteeve.com> <492C590A.9010709@totaltravelmarketing.com> <492C5C7D.1040302@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <492C613E.8060708@totaltravelmarketing.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Jose wrote: >> Madison Kelly wrote: >>> Robert P. J. Day wrote: >>>> can someone post when the first "local" fedora mirror opens up for >>>> f10? i actually have a tight deadline for an installation so, for me, >>>> the sooner, the better. thanks. >>>> >>>> rday >>> I'm downloading it to my server now. Give me about an hour and I'll >>> post the link (for TLUG only, be kind to my server! :) ). >>> >>> Madi >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> Hi there >> >> I am finding their mirrors very slow, are you still planning to share >> the ISO? >> >> I would appreciate it > > Use their torrents, it's much easier on bandwidth for the project and is > faster than an overloaded mirror e.g. on the i686 live cd torrent there > are 500 seeds and 800+ leeches, plenty fast enough. > > http://torrent.fedoraproject.org > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Firewalls do not allow me to run torrents around her, I am forced to download ISO files -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 20:41:13 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:41:13 -0500 Subject: first available close fedora mirror? In-Reply-To: <492C5C7D.1040302-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <492C2553.90005@alteeve.com> <492C590A.9010709@totaltravelmarketing.com> <492C5C7D.1040302@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20081125204113.GX5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 03:13:49PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Use their torrents, it's much easier on bandwidth for the project and is > faster than an overloaded mirror e.g. on the i686 live cd torrent there > are 500 seeds and 800+ leeches, plenty fast enough. Actually torrents is NOT easier on the bandwidth. One of the admins of kernel.org proved that very well with stats from the last fedora release where he tried to help with the torrent, and did over 30% of the complete torrent seeding, and still served 10 times that by http/ftp from kernel.org alone. The torrents accounted for practically nothing in total traffic, but required a dedicated server to manage the cpu overhead it required. If you have a mirror network (which fedora does) then torrents are an awful thing to have. If you don't have a mirror network, then torrents are quite a helpful system. So do the distribution a favour and DON'T use the torrents. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 20:45:14 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:45:14 -0500 Subject: first available close fedora mirror? In-Reply-To: <492C590A.9010709-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <492C2553.90005@alteeve.com> <492C590A.9010709@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <492C63DA.9020107@alteeve.com> Jose wrote: >> I'm downloading it to my server now. Give me about an hour and I'll >> post the link (for TLUG only, be kind to my server! :) ). >> >> Madi >> > Hi there > > I am finding their mirrors very slow, are you still planning to share > the ISO? > > I would appreciate it > > Thanks Sure, http://mizu-bu.org/iso/ Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 20:59:03 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:59:03 -0500 Subject: first available close fedora mirror? In-Reply-To: <20081125204113.GX5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <492C2553.90005@alteeve.com> <492C590A.9010709@totaltravelmarketing.com> <492C5C7D.1040302@utoronto.ca> <20081125204113.GX5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <492C6717.9010306@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 03:13:49PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Use their torrents, it's much easier on bandwidth for the project and is >> faster than an overloaded mirror e.g. on the i686 live cd torrent there >> are 500 seeds and 800+ leeches, plenty fast enough. > > Actually torrents is NOT easier on the bandwidth. Depends who you ask and your users I guess. Think World of Warcraft with 9+ million users, if Blizzard things sending out patches via torrents is worth building into their program, it must be worth something to them e.g. 9 million x 2gb is a pretty large bandwidth bill at the end of the month to have to absorb whereas farming that out to your paying customers is a sheer stroke of technical genius. > One of the admins of kernel.org proved that very well with stats from > the last fedora release where he tried to help with the torrent, and did > over 30% of the complete torrent seeding, and still served 10 times that > by http/ftp from kernel.org alone. The torrents accounted for > practically nothing in total traffic, but required a dedicated server to > manage the cpu overhead it required. Some clients support distributed tracking requiring less centralized resources to manage. Moreover, if more people used torrents, there would be less bandwidth used on http/ftp mirrors -- it's a chicken egg thing. > If you have a mirror network (which fedora does) then torrents are an > awful thing to have. If you don't have a mirror network, then torrents > are quite a helpful system. Fedora have mirrors, and the Canadian ones that I've been watching today all return at capacity messages. Might just be a matter of getting the iso at the right time, but in the 20 minutes it took to dl the iso via rtorrent, i would have wasted all that time poking around for a working slow mirror. > So do the distribution a favour and DON'T use the torrents. The distribution or the mirror maintainers? Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 23:19:47 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:19:47 -0500 Subject: need some help beta testing an install script In-Reply-To: <492C231E.2000708-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811250933.33597.icanprogram@295.ca> <20081125152802.GU5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492C231E.2000708@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:09 AM, David J Patrick wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 09:33:33AM -0500, bob 295 wrote: >>> >>> I've created a streamlined install script for my SIMPL book sample code. >>> > > [snip] >>> >>> I'm looking for some volunteers who are willing to spend the time >>> reviewing my script and then to try it out against their particular Linux >>> configuration. >> >> Hmm, so a few comments: > > Well Lennart, I think you just defined "clobber". > Vastly and simultaneously scathing, educational and entertaining! There's a difference between "bashing" and "constructive criticism." Sometimes you may come out of some "constructive criticism" with some bruising; that doesn't mean it wasn't still constructive :-). Lennart's comments are suggesting approaches that would lead to others being able to more readily be involved with the code base. And the comments seem right on to me. Lennart comes in as a significant participant in the Debian project; he has been heavily involved in "making stuff work with Debian," which fits *exactly* with the sort of thing that the SIMPL folks are looking to do. They may not be specifically concerned about Debian, but they *should* be concerned about making their software interoperate with Linux distributions as easily as possible. If they took his suggestions and did them all, that would take them plenty of steps down the road marked "Trying To Get My Software Included In A Linux Distribution," and none down the "Trying To Keep My Software Out Of Linux Distributions." :-) -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html Groucho Marx - "Anyone who says he can see through women is missing a lot." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Nov 25 23:19:14 2008 From: arifsaha-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:19:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > - Serenity T1150, AMD Sempron LE-1150 2GHz, nVidia nForce 630a / GeForce > 7050 chipset. > - Serenity T1100, AMD Athlon 64 3200+, apparently some Via chipset (S3 > UniChrome Graphics). > - Shuttle K45PC, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200, Intel 945GC / ICH7 chipset. > - Serenity T1080, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200. Intel 945GC / ICH7 Chipset. > (from > http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=cpl&id=170.45&sort=3) Just an update (and caveat): I ended up with Serenity T1080. However there are several issue: - Canada Computer information page is not accurate: instead of Intel 945GC, it actually has Biostar G31-M7 TE with Intel G31 chipset, which apparently newer. - Regardless, I failed to noticed that ICH7 chipset is not all-in chipset; specifically, it does not include ethernet controller. So it happened that Biostar G31-M7 TE come with Realtek RTL8102EL ethernet controller, for which kernel support is limited, if any, and definitely not in Fedora 9 kernel let alone CentOS. I tried to exchange the system but Canada Computer people don't think it is their fault. I have no time to argue too much so I just drop in additional network card, which works so far. Yeah, in restrospect I should get some old systems from Factory Direct instead. :-] -- (stephan paul) Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 00:16:21 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:16:21 -0500 Subject: ubuntu / I-INC In-Reply-To: <20081118144240.GG5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <491CB4C1.80705@chrisaitken.net> <491CC1D5.3060109@rogers.com> <491CD451.1090705@chrisaitken.net> <20081118144240.GG5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <492C9555.60605@chrisaitken.net> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 08:28:49PM -0500, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > >> Looks like I don't have to do that. Though it's not rocket science, I >> have never had much luck editing that file. I guess I'll just make sure >> that whenever I boot to linux that I am KVM-switched to that computer as >> well. I do understand (Correctly, I hope) that if I wanted to boot to a >> given resolution every time (regardless of where the KVM switch's >> attention is) I would have to edit that file. >> >> Is that a limitation of LCD monitors? I could certainly get better >> refresh rates out of my CRT monitors. >> > > Some LCDs run 75hz, but since there is no flicker issue on an LCD, there > is no real need for higher refresh rates than 60hz. Yeah, I was so impressed with myself that I remembered that 60 Hz refresh rate sucks that I failed to noticed that that refresh rate /on an LCD monitor/ does /not/ suck - no flicker. > Higher refresh > rates take more bandwidth too, which is why 59 or 60hz is what is > normally used. The maximum amount of pixels you can send through a > single link DVI connection is 1920x1200 at 60hz. It can't do it at 75hz, > there simply isn't enough bandwidth. Dual link can do twice that, so > hence 2560x1600 at 60hz on large displays, although some high resolution > displays do 3840x2400 at 24hz on dual link (48hz on quad link). > > Thanks for the explanation. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 01:02:50 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:02:50 -0500 Subject: need some help beta testing an install script In-Reply-To: <492C231E.2000708-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811250933.33597.icanprogram@295.ca> <20081125152802.GU5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492C231E.2000708@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <200811252002.50882.icanprogram@295.ca> On November 25, 2008 11:09 am, David J Patrick wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 09:33:33AM -0500, bob 295 wrote: > >> I've created a streamlined install script for my SIMPL book sample code. > > [snip] > > >> I'm looking for some volunteers who are willing to spend the time > >> reviewing my script and then to try it out against their particular > >> Linux configuration. > > > > Hmm, so a few comments: > > Well Lennart, I think you just defined "clobber". > Vastly and simultaneously scathing, educational and entertaining! > djp > -- This type of commentary is somewhat unfair. I took Lennart's comments as constructive criticism of a project which has been in existence since 1999. Any project that has been around that long is bound to accumulate its share of warts and we welcome all suggestions for improvement however they are delivered. Many people have used SIMPL over the years and by many measures it is a very successful open source project. I'd love to see SIMPL finally get a Debian package and I've indicated to Lennart that we'd be willing to work with him to scrub things into a more "standard" format. With a Debian package perhaps even more people would use SIMPL. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 03:51:21 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:51:21 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a97ef0811251951q1539c93yb18c9b146312a8d3@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 12:30 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: S P Arif Sahari Wibowo > > | I would like to find a cheap desktop for playing with Fedora 9 and Centos 5. > > Really cheap: buy off lease. See my message to the list of about 24 hours > ago. Not perfect! > > Alternative: follow freecycle or craigslist for a cheap or free > discard. Problem: you probably should consider 1G a minimum although > 512M will certainly work. The only cheap RAM these days is DDR2 so > that eliminates many older boxes. This approach is perhaps too > demanding of time. > > | - Serenity T1150, AMD Sempron LE-1150 2GHz, nVidia nForce 630a / GeForce 7050 > | chipset. > | - Serenity T1100, AMD Athlon 64 3200+, apparently some Via chipset (S3 > | UniChrome Graphics). > | - Shuttle K45PC, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200, Intel 945GC / ICH7 chipset. > | - Serenity T1080, Intel Celeron Dual-Core E1200. Intel 945GC / ICH7 Chipset. > | > | (from > | http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=cpl&id=170.45&sort=3) > | > | Any suggestion? > > I would avoid anything named UniChrome. Historically there were no > decent open source drivers. I don't know if that has changed. If you're looking for something that will handle basic 3d and TV-out functions they're not bad. I've played with various VIA boards (usually mini-ITX stuff) that had Unichrome chipset. The in-kernel support has gotten better over the last few years too, so there's not so much download+configure+make+make install'ing going on :-) > > The K45PC is nice and small but has no optical drive and no apparent > way to add one internally. > > The T1150 and T1080 seem fine, for all I know. > > The Semperon LE-1150 appears to be single core. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Sempron_microprocessors > > The Celeron E1200 appears to be dual core. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Celeron_microprocessors > > So the processors seem close enough to not matter much. Dual core is > a bonus. > > The T1080 has a larger disk. > > So: the T1080 is better but the T1080 is less expensive. Your call. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 04:05:24 2008 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:05:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: best place to install system on asus eee? Message-ID: Hi All, I just wondering what you think the place to install ubuntu on the asus eee? So far I've tried the hard-drive (problem is that it fills up) and the SD card (problem is that it seems much slower.) Other options would be a memory stick or external hard drive. Before I keep going with trial and error I thought I'd ask if there were any suggestions? Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 04:56:37 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:56:37 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of Message-ID: Hi pals, I am a little bit in a fix. I am just through a 20 minute fsck fixing a file system that was badly corrupt. This has been a norm for a while, but has become so frequent of late I am feeling really relieved after the laptop comes up again. The logs are full of hard disk errors and the file system remounted read only one too many a time. In a another word, this hard disk is in its last days. That leave me with two options. Go out there and buy a new hard disk and somehow have it installed in the laptop. I messed my last laptop doing such repairs, though that time it was LCD which had failed. The experience however make me feel I would rather someone do it. That mean, by the time I am done with repair, $500 may be done. That open up the second option, instead of repairing the current system, how about picking one of those inexpensive laptop? I am sure the life of this hard disk would be lengthened if its not switched on every evening, so I would still have access to my data. This option is looking really appealing and therefore the purpose of the post. The way economy is going, one has to try and get as much value for every dollar as possible. I have noticed people posting really good computer deals in the past. Would anyone be aware of a current deal involving ASUS EEE? Which model offer the best value for the money? I am leaning toward the solid state disk to avoid my current pains in the future. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 05:10:29 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:10:29 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <492CDA45.704@dinamis.com> William Muriithi wrote: > That leave me with two options. Go out there and buy a new hard disk > and somehow have it installed in the laptop. I messed my last laptop > doing such repairs, though that time it was LCD which had failed. Replacing a hard disk on most notebooks should be no more difficult than replacing one on a desktop machine. If you're going to do that, make sure that the new drive you buy, which will in all likelihood be larger capacity, will be supported by the BIOS in the machine. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3273 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 06:00:16 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:00:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux Message-ID: Hi all. Just a quick note that I have successfully made a connection to the 'net using a "Rogers Mobile Internet Stick"[1] on Ubuntu and an currently connected through it. This device is a usb stick providing Internet access over Rogers' 3G network. I'll be making my scripts available for anyone who wants them but first sleep :) [1] The device is in fact a Novatel MC950D which had been confirmed working on various 3G networks around the world. -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 10:24:13 2008 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 05:24:13 -0500 Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081126052413.85964992.tleslie@tcn.net> sweet!! you mean if i take the SIM out of my crack-berry (that has a data account), and put it in this puppy, i can surf from my linux laptop? how much can one of these be had for? anything special you have to configure with your account at rogers end? can one just get a "Novatel MC950D" if its just rogers putting a sicker on it? post what type of data rates your getting with it, dammit i want one now! :) -tl On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:00:16 -0500 (EST) Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. Just a quick note that I have successfully made a connection to > the 'net using a "Rogers Mobile Internet Stick"[1] on Ubuntu and an > currently connected through it. This device is a usb stick providing > Internet access over Rogers' 3G network. > > I'll be making my scripts available for anyone who wants them but first > sleep :) > > [1] The device is in fact a Novatel MC950D which had been confirmed > working on various 3G networks around the world. > > -- > I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 12:14:27 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:14:27 -0500 Subject: best place to install system on asus eee? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <492D3DA3.9030807@rogers.com> Alex Maynard wrote: > > Hi All, > > I just wondering what you think the place to install ubuntu on the > asus eee? > > So far I've tried the hard-drive (problem is that it fills up) and the > SD card (problem is that it seems much slower.) Other options would > be a memory stick or external hard drive. Before I keep going with trial > and error I thought I'd ask if there were any suggestions? > My first problem is determining how to intall Ubuntu on mine. I have the bottom end 2G Surf and it apparently doesn't have enough space to run the installer or even get to the Live desktop. :-( -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 12:17:32 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:17:32 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <492D3E5C.8020605@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > The way economy is going, one has to try and get as much value for > every dollar as possible. I have noticed people posting really good > computer deals in the past. Would anyone be aware of a current deal > involving ASUS EEE? Which model offer the best value for the money? I > am leaning toward the solid state disk to avoid my current pains in > the future. > > I got my Eee PC 2G Surf/Linux free from the bank, but it's very limited in resources. If you're buying, go for a better model. Of course, you're not limited to Asus. There are other brands that make similar computers. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 12:20:34 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:20:34 -0500 Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <492D3F12.5030200@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. Just a quick note that I have successfully made a connection > to the 'net using a "Rogers Mobile Internet Stick"[1] on Ubuntu and an > currently connected through it. This device is a usb stick providing > Internet access over Rogers' 3G network. > > I'll be making my scripts available for anyone who wants them but > first sleep :) > > [1] The device is in fact a Novatel MC950D which had been confirmed > working on various 3G networks around the world. > What sort of device does it appear as? My cell phone looks like a standard dial up modem, which means it doesn't require any drivers etc. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 12:23:09 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:23:09 -0500 Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: <20081126052413.85964992.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20081126052413.85964992.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <492D3FAD.5050908@rogers.com> ted leslie wrote: > sweet!! you mean if i take the SIM out of my crack-berry (that has a data account), > and put it in this puppy, i can surf from my linux laptop? > how much can one of these be had for? > anything special you have to configure with your account at rogers end? > > can one just get a "Novatel MC950D" if its just rogers putting a sicker on it? > > post what type of data rates your getting with it, > dammit i want one now! :) > And what does the service cost? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 12:53:20 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:53:20 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <492D46C0.2070404@alteeve.com> William Muriithi wrote: > Hi pals, > > I am a little bit in a fix. I am just through a 20 minute fsck fixing > a file system that was badly corrupt. This has been a norm for a > while, but has become so frequent of late I am feeling really relieved > after the laptop comes up again. The logs are full of hard disk errors > and the file system remounted read only one too many a time. In a > another word, this hard disk is in its last days. > > That leave me with two options. Go out there and buy a new hard disk > and somehow have it installed in the laptop. I messed my last laptop > doing such repairs, though that time it was LCD which had failed. The > experience however make me feel I would rather someone do it. That > mean, by the time I am done with repair, $500 may be done. > > That open up the second option, instead of repairing the current > system, how about picking one of those inexpensive laptop? I am sure > the life of this hard disk would be lengthened if its not switched on > every evening, so I would still have access to my data. This option is > looking really appealing and therefore the purpose of the post. > > The way economy is going, one has to try and get as much value for > every dollar as possible. I have noticed people posting really good > computer deals in the past. Would anyone be aware of a current deal > involving ASUS EEE? Which model offer the best value for the money? I > am leaning toward the solid state disk to avoid my current pains in > the future. > > Regards, > > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Here is the laptop I am using: http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=020510&cid=896.862 Though I agree with Clifford, replacing the hard drive should be pretty easy. As for Solid State, I'd hold off a little longer. I intentionally got the platter-drive figuring that the SSD was coming down in price and going up in speed/quality so fast that now wasn't the time to get it. I still feel that way. As for the Eee, the 10" has a "big enough" screen, and the new Intel Atom 1.6GHz CPU is "fast enough" that, for the price, I feel it's a total win. The only time I find myself pining for more is with very complex documents (multiple tables, japanese and english characters, etc) and when I use Kate, which loads the KDE libraries while I'm running Gnome in Ubuntu 8.10 (8.04 was fine). I bought this for the same reason you're thinking; I don't know where the economy was going so I decided to bank what I can and worry about "toys" later (which a laptop more capable than this would be, to me). madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 13:53:05 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:53:05 -0500 Subject: first available close fedora mirror? In-Reply-To: <492C6717.9010306-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <492C2553.90005@alteeve.com> <492C590A.9010709@totaltravelmarketing.com> <492C5C7D.1040302@utoronto.ca> <20081125204113.GX5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492C6717.9010306@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20081126135305.GY5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 03:59:03PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Depends who you ask and your users I guess. Think World of Warcraft with > 9+ million users, if Blizzard things sending out patches via torrents is > worth building into their program, it must be worth something to them > e.g. 9 million x 2gb is a pretty large bandwidth bill at the end of the > month to have to absorb whereas farming that out to your paying > customers is a sheer stroke of technical genius. Sure, it saves blizzard money at the expense of their users. Overall they are wasting more bandwidth and tons more CPU, but blizzard doesn't care since it isn't their resources being wasted. > Some clients support distributed tracking requiring less centralized > resources to manage. Moreover, if more people used torrents, there would > be less bandwidth used on http/ftp mirrors -- it's a chicken egg thing. Torrents can't use the kernel's sendfile() syscall, because it needs checksums calculated and stuck on packets. an ftp and web server can use sendfile. This offloads the transmission of a file entirely to the kernel where the file goes straight from disk to the network socket with no copies to user space. This is the only way to efficiently use high speed links (like kernel.org has). > Fedora have mirrors, and the Canadian ones that I've been watching today > all return at capacity messages. Might just be a matter of getting the > iso at the right time, but in the 20 minutes it took to dl the iso via > rtorrent, i would have wasted all that time poking around for a working > slow mirror. And yet those "slow" mirrors are doing 99% of the fedora distribution. > The distribution or the mirror maintainers? Both. Of course to really make a useful difference, try using a network install method that doesn't involve downloading complete ISO's, of which you won't even use the majority, and do in place upgrades using the network too of just the packages you are actually using. I hope fedora has managed to figure that out by now. Debian has been doing it for over a decade. Fedora's totally insane pile of ISOs are using almost half the diskspace of mirrors.kernel.org. Debian which covers more architectures than anyone else and has more packages than anyone else, uses about 10% of the disk space of fedora. I still don't know how that is possible. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 14:00:13 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:00:13 -0500 Subject: Chosing cheap desktop: recommendation? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081126140013.GZ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 06:19:14PM -0500, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Just an update (and caveat): I ended up with Serenity T1080. > However there are several issue: > > - Canada Computer information page is not accurate: instead of > Intel 945GC, it actually has Biostar G31-M7 TE with Intel G31 > chipset, which apparently newer. > > - Regardless, I failed to noticed that ICH7 chipset is not > all-in chipset; specifically, it does not include ethernet > controller. So it happened that Biostar G31-M7 TE come with > Realtek RTL8102EL ethernet controller, for which kernel support > is limited, if any, and definitely not in Fedora 9 kernel let > alone CentOS. > > I tried to exchange the system but Canada Computer people don't > think it is their fault. I have no time to argue too much so I > just drop in additional network card, which works so far. > > Yeah, in restrospect I should get some old systems from Factory > Direct instead. :-] Wellt he specs listed for the T1080 sure aren't very complete. It doesn't list any actual parts, just vaguely what specs they have. I will stick with build my own, so I know what I am getting. :) I think the RTL8102 is somewhat supported in recent kernels, but I have no idea since I have never dealt with one. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 14:09:43 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:09:43 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081126140943.GA5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:56:37PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > I am a little bit in a fix. I am just through a 20 minute fsck fixing > a file system that was badly corrupt. This has been a norm for a > while, but has become so frequent of late I am feeling really relieved > after the laptop comes up again. The logs are full of hard disk errors > and the file system remounted read only one too many a time. In a > another word, this hard disk is in its last days. > > That leave me with two options. Go out there and buy a new hard disk > and somehow have it installed in the laptop. I messed my last laptop > doing such repairs, though that time it was LCD which had failed. The > experience however make me feel I would rather someone do it. That > mean, by the time I am done with repair, $500 may be done. Changing harddrives on a laptop only requires knowledge of how to operate a small phillips screw driver. Either the harddrive tray has a quick release, or sometimes it needs 1 or 2 screws removed. It should then slide out. You then have to remove 4 screws (usually) from the tray holding the drive, and then the drive comes out of the tray. You then get another drive the same size (usually 2.5" wide x 9mm as far as I remember, although I think some were 12mm thick). Make sure to get the right IDE or SATA depending on what is there. If you bring the old drive to the computer store it should be simple to get something the same interface and size. You then install the new drive in the tray the same way the old one was removed, and put it back in the system and do a fresh install of everything, or restore from backup, or whatever you like. Some systems may not support IDE drives larger than 137GB, although SATA never has that problem. Canada computers has 120GB IDE laptop drives for $72, so it isn't hugely expensive. If the machine supports larger than 137GB, then a 250GB is $102 and a 160GB is $78. > That open up the second option, instead of repairing the current > system, how about picking one of those inexpensive laptop? I am sure > the life of this hard disk would be lengthened if its not switched on > every evening, so I would still have access to my data. This option is > looking really appealing and therefore the purpose of the post. Replacing a harddrive does not qualify as a repair job. More of an upgrade. If you got an external drive enclosure to put the old drive in, you could copy your data over to the new driver that way. > The way economy is going, one has to try and get as much value for > every dollar as possible. I have noticed people posting really good > computer deals in the past. Would anyone be aware of a current deal > involving ASUS EEE? Which model offer the best value for the money? I > am leaning toward the solid state disk to avoid my current pains in > the future. Solid state disks can fail too. They do eventually wear out. They don't mind vibrations and such though, which might help. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 14:11:46 2008 From: overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Overholt) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:11:46 -0500 Subject: first available close fedora mirror? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081126141146.GA3716@redhat.com> * Robert P. J. Day [2008-11-25 06:33]: > can someone post when the first "local" fedora mirror opens up for > f10? I know it's too late for Robert, but we're having a Fedora 10 release party tonight and will have ISOs available so bring a blank CD or a USB key. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/ReleaseParty/F10/Toronto All are welcome. Andrew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 14:16:06 2008 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:16:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: first available close fedora mirror? In-Reply-To: <20081126141146.GA3716-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20081126141146.GA3716@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, Andrew Overholt wrote: > * Robert P. J. Day [2008-11-25 06:33]: > > can someone post when the first "local" fedora mirror opens up for > > f10? > > I know it's too late for Robert, but we're having a Fedora 10 release > party tonight and will have ISOs available so bring a blank CD or a USB > key. > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/ReleaseParty/F10/Toronto > > All are welcome. sadly, i'm in waterloo but i already have copies of both the i386 and x86_64 DVDs, and we're getting set up here in waterloo to swap DVDs at our next LUG meeting, so i'm good, thanks. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 15:09:15 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:09:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi Others have pointed out that hard drive replacement is easy (at least for them) and not too expensive. I would tend to agree, with caveats: (1) some people are more confident whacking on hardware than others, (2) some notebooks are really hard to upgrade (eg. my subnotebook required a lot of disassembly just to get to the RAM). I don't remember the specs of your notebook. If you've outgrown it or it is wildly obsolete it might not be worth fixing. Be sure that you have a good backup if you hope to install Windows on the new hard disk. If you don't care about your current data and Windows then installing a new disk is easier. Don't put off backing up your data: the life of a failing hard disk is quite precarious. | That leave me with two options. Go out there and buy a new hard disk | and somehow have it installed in the laptop. | That open up the second option, instead of repairing the current | system, how about picking one of those inexpensive laptop? It depends on how you intend to use the computer. As a general purpose computer, netbooks are fairly limited. The keyboards and displays in particular are limited. No optical drive. The ones with solid-state disks are quite limited in disk capacity. They are really great (I imagine) for carrying around for quick access to the internet. If you want a general-purpose computer, there are quite a few deals for low-end conventional notebooks in the $400 to $500 range. Much more bang for your buck (and kilos for your buck) than netbooks. I don't know how you would use your computer so I don't know if a netbook would actually suit you or not. As for netbook deals: they come and go. For example, last Friday, Staples was selling an Acer Aspire One for $300. This Friday, in the US ("Black Friday"), Dell will be selling its netbook for $300. Finding a deal requires figuring out what you want (some keyboards are nicer than others, does Blue Tooth matter?, battery sizes differ, SSD or hard drive?,...) and then awaiting a deal to come up. eSng and PC Village have had sometimes had good sale prices. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 15:34:33 2008 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:34:33 -0500 Subject: need some help beta testing an install script In-Reply-To: <200811252002.50882.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811250933.33597.icanprogram@295.ca> <20081125152802.GU5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492C231E.2000708@linuxcaffe.ca> <200811252002.50882.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <492D6C89.2080109@linuxcaffe.ca> bob 295 wrote: > On November 25, 2008 11:09 am, David J Patrick wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 09:33:33AM -0500, bob 295 wrote: >>>> I've created a streamlined install script for my SIMPL book sample code. >> [snip] >> >>>> I'm looking for some volunteers who are willing to spend the time >>>> reviewing my script and then to try it out against their particular >>>> Linux configuration. >>> Hmm, so a few comments: >> Well Lennart, I think you just defined "clobber". >> Vastly and simultaneously scathing, educational and entertaining! >> djp >> -- > > This type of commentary is somewhat unfair. I took Lennart's comments as > constructive criticism of a project which has been in existence since 1999. > Any project that has been around that long is bound to accumulate its share > of warts and we welcome all suggestions for improvement however they are > delivered. I'm sorry if my offhand comment seemed unfair, Bob, It was not meant to bash you or your project, but just an observation on how Lennart delivered a round of no-punches-pulled comments. Scathing, yes, as he saw several things that badly need fixing, educational in that we all learned a lot about about better coding practices and entertaining in the shoot-from-the-hip, call-em-as-I-see-em, you-asked-for-it style. No offense intended, forgive me if Mr Sorensen cracks me up. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 15:40:21 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:40:21 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: <20081126140943.GA5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081126140943.GA5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <492D6DE5.3070901@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Changing harddrives on a laptop only requires knowledge of how to operate a small phillips screw driver. > It is sometimes more than just the hardware swap. I recall that some laptops of a few years ago (and certainly some older thinkpads) had BIOSs that would only recognize certain hard disks as being supported. It is likely not the case being described here but is worth a check on the web if anyone has had problems replacing a disk. >> The way economy is going, one has to try and get as much value for >> every dollar as possible. I have noticed people posting really good >> computer deals in the past. Would anyone be aware of a current deal >> involving ASUS EEE? Which model offer the best value for the money? I >> am leaning toward the solid state disk to avoid my current pains in >> the future. I would just make the point that there are now quite a few very good EeePC competitors around, including (but not limited to): HP Mini-Note Acer Aspire One MSI Wind Dell Inspiron Mini 9 Lenovo IdeaPad S10 As was mentioned in last night's NewTLUG talk on netbooks, one of the critical differences between netbooks, that doesn't come out in feature comparisons, is the keyboard design. In order to get a whole keyboard into a 9"or 10" space, various compromises need to be made, and the different vendors do different compromises. The Dell, for instance, has no separate function keys -- if you want F1 you need to hold down "Fn" and press 1. For some this is an acceptable compromise (in order to make other keys bigger), for some it its not. So have a look, either on the web or in person, at the keyboard layout of the units you're considering. (my personal favourite so far is the HP layout). - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 17:00:10 2008 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:00:10 -0500 Subject: need some help beta testing an install script In-Reply-To: References: <200811250933.33597.icanprogram@295.ca> <20081125152802.GU5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492C231E.2000708@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <492D809A.6060504@linuxcaffe.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:09 AM, David J Patrick wrote: >> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 09:33:33AM -0500, bob 295 wrote: >>>> I've created a streamlined install script for my SIMPL book sample code. >>>> >> [snip] >>>> I'm looking for some volunteers who are willing to spend the time >>>> reviewing my script and then to try it out against their particular Linux >>>> configuration. >>> Hmm, so a few comments: >> Well Lennart, I think you just defined "clobber". >> Vastly and simultaneously scathing, educational and entertaining! > > There's a difference between "bashing" and "constructive criticism." there's a difference between "bashing" and "clobbering" too, where bashing implies venting anger and clobbering merely a hard, blunt blow. > > Sometimes you may come out of some "constructive criticism" with some > bruising; that doesn't mean it wasn't still constructive :-). It was SO constructive, and NOT mean spirited, that the clobbering should be highly beneficial. That the manner of deconstruction was amusing to me (who couldn't code my way out of a wet paper bag) is just a bonus. Lennart improves the code ecosystem Bob gets the best possible advice and I get the giggles.. so ? we all win! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 18:29:57 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:29:57 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081126182957.GB5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:09:15AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Others have pointed out that hard drive replacement is easy (at least > for them) and not too expensive. I would tend to agree, with caveats: > > (1) some people are more confident whacking on hardware than others, > > (2) some notebooks are really hard to upgrade (eg. my subnotebook > required a lot of disassembly just to get to the RAM). I have had to remove the keyboard on a laptop to get at the ram. Very stupid design (Thanks HP/Compaq consumer division). I have not (yet) seen a laptop where the harddisk was hard to get at. I suspect if I saw a Macbook Air I might have seen one (which also has no ethernet jack, which is just totally stupid). > I don't remember the specs of your notebook. If you've outgrown it or > it is wildly obsolete it might not be worth fixing. > > Be sure that you have a good backup if you hope to install Windows on > the new hard disk. If you don't care about your current data and > Windows then installing a new disk is easier. > > Don't put off backing up your data: the life of a failing hard disk is > quite precarious. If your data isn't backed up, then it isn't important. Being a sysadmin in the past tought me that. Much easier to deal with people's disk failures and such if that is your policy. If someone complains that their floppy with their only copy of their document doesn't work, well then it wasn't an important document after all. > It depends on how you intend to use the computer. > > As a general purpose computer, netbooks are fairly limited. The > keyboards and displays in particular are limited. No optical drive. > The ones with solid-state disks are quite limited in disk capacity. > They are really great (I imagine) for carrying around for quick access > to the internet. > > If you want a general-purpose computer, there are quite a few deals > for low-end conventional notebooks in the $400 to $500 range. Much > more bang for your buck (and kilos for your buck) than netbooks. > > I don't know how you would use your computer so I don't know if a > netbook would actually suit you or not. > > As for netbook deals: they come and go. For example, last Friday, > Staples was selling an Acer Aspire One for $300. This Friday, in the > US ("Black Friday"), Dell will be selling its netbook for $300. > Finding a deal requires figuring out what you want (some keyboards are > nicer than others, does Blue Tooth matter?, battery sizes differ, SSD > or hard drive?,...) and then awaiting a deal to come up. eSng and PC > Village have had sometimes had good sale prices. Some have better linux support than others. Some have better specs. Some have better build quality and warrenty and such. -- Len SOrensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 18:31:45 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:31:45 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: <492D6DE5.3070901-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20081126140943.GA5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492D6DE5.3070901@telly.org> Message-ID: <20081126183145.GC5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:40:21AM -0500, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > It is sometimes more than just the hardware swap. I recall that some > laptops of a few years ago (and certainly some older thinkpads) had > BIOSs that would only recognize certain hard disks as being supported. > It is likely not the case being described here but is worth a check on > the web if anyone has had problems replacing a disk. I haven't seen that ever. I have seen not accepting alternate minipci wifi cards, but never the HD. > I would just make the point that there are now quite a few very good > EeePC competitors around, including (but not limited to): > > HP Mini-Note > Acer Aspire One > MSI Wind > Dell Inspiron Mini 9 > Lenovo IdeaPad S10 Just make sure to compare battery size, speed, features, etc. Sometimes something that looks like a good deal turns out to be far less than it appears. > As was mentioned in last night's NewTLUG talk on netbooks, one of the > critical differences between netbooks, that doesn't come out in feature > comparisons, is the keyboard design. In order to get a whole keyboard > into a 9"or 10" space, various compromises need to be made, and the > different vendors do different compromises. The Dell, for instance, has > no separate function keys -- if you want F1 you need to hold down "Fn" > and press 1. For some this is an acceptable compromise (in order to make > other keys bigger), for some it its not. So have a look, either on the > web or in person, at the keyboard layout of the units you're > considering. (my personal favourite so far is the HP layout). I don't think I could work without function keys, although I don't tend to like any laptop keyboard in the first place. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 18:33:22 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:33:22 -0500 Subject: need some help beta testing an install script In-Reply-To: <492D6C89.2080109-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg@public.gmane.org> References: <200811250933.33597.icanprogram@295.ca> <20081125152802.GU5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492C231E.2000708@linuxcaffe.ca> <200811252002.50882.icanprogram@295.ca> <492D6C89.2080109@linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <20081126183322.GD5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:34:33AM -0500, David J Patrick wrote: > I'm sorry if my offhand comment seemed unfair, Bob, It was not meant to > bash you or your project, but just an observation on how Lennart > delivered a round of no-punches-pulled comments. Scathing, yes, as he > saw several things that badly need fixing, educational in that we all > learned a lot about about better coding practices and entertaining in > the shoot-from-the-hip, call-em-as-I-see-em, you-asked-for-it style. Not sure it was asked for. Well I guess comments were asked for on the self installer script, and I commented on the overall archive instead. > No offense intended, forgive me if Mr Sorensen cracks me up. I didn't take any. If I manage educational, I think I did something right. Entertaining may not be intentional, but doesn't hurt. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 18:52:06 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:52:06 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: <20081126183145.GC5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081126140943.GA5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492D6DE5.3070901@telly.org> <20081126183145.GC5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <492D9AD6.8090404@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> As was mentioned in last night's NewTLUG talk on netbooks, one of the >> critical differences between netbooks, that doesn't come out in feature >> comparisons, is the keyboard design. In order to get a whole keyboard >> into a 9"or 10" space, various compromises need to be made, and the >> different vendors do different compromises. The Dell, for instance, has >> no separate function keys -- if you want F1 you need to hold down "Fn" >> and press 1. For some this is an acceptable compromise (in order to make >> other keys bigger), for some it its not. So have a look, either on the >> web or in person, at the keyboard layout of the units you're >> considering. (my personal favourite so far is the HP layout). > > I don't think I could work without function keys, although I don't tend > to like any laptop keyboard in the first place. The main difference in the Eee P1000 series keyboards (the 10" ones) are: - The right shift key is to the right of the up arrow. This took me about a week to get used to and doesn't bother me at all now. - The Home/End keys are Fn + left/right arrow and PgUp/PgDn are Fn + up/down arrow. I got used to this almost right away and actually catch myself trying to do this on normal keyboards now. - The keys themselves are 92% off normal size. This never caused me any trouble, unlike the 7"/9" Eee's keyboard. I was actually surprised at how nice it is. Other than that, everything else is as you would expect on a normal laptop keyboard. The arrow keys are in the normal inverted-T form, all F# keys are there, '~' is back where it should be (it was beside F1 on the 7"/9" which I hated), Del/Ins are above the Delete key; common for laptops. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Nov 26 19:02:58 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:02:58 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: <20081126182957.GB5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081126182957.GB5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <492D9D62.4050205@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:09:15AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> Others have pointed out that hard drive replacement is easy (at least >> for them) and not too expensive. I would tend to agree, with caveats: >> >> (1) some people are more confident whacking on hardware than others, >> >> (2) some notebooks are really hard to upgrade (eg. my subnotebook >> required a lot of disassembly just to get to the RAM). > > I have had to remove the keyboard on a laptop to get at the ram. Very > stupid design (Thanks HP/Compaq consumer division). I have not (yet) > seen a laptop where the harddisk was hard to get at. I suspect if I saw > a Macbook Air I might have seen one (which also has no ethernet jack, > which is just totally stupid). Not to defend the Apple Air, but it does have a wired jack. It's on a hidden drop-down door on the righ-rear side. To replace the hard drive on an iBook G4 took nearly 3h... Strike that, it was 3h to open the damn thing without special tools (if you cared about nor marring up the pretty white plastic). I *hate* working on iBooks! >> Don't put off backing up your data: the life of a failing hard disk is >> quite precarious. > > If your data isn't backed up, then it isn't important. Being a sysadmin > in the past tought me that. Much easier to deal with people's disk > failures and such if that is your policy. If someone complains that > their floppy with their only copy of their document doesn't work, well > then it wasn't an important document after all. Though I agree with this view 100%, I don't think it's fair to impart this on non-geeks. Many people have an unrealistic view of computer reliability. Just yesterday I had a client, whose optical drive is failing, exclaim "That happens!?" when I told her. What we need to do, as geeks, is better educate the non-geek population on the inherent lack of reliability and, thus, the need for frequent backups. madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 00:18:50 2008 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:18:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: TLUG vs. NewTLUG In-Reply-To: <28003.216.59.248.96.1227546355.squirrel-N9AOi2cAC9ZBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <28003.216.59.248.96.1227546355.squirrel@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <58490.192.30.202.20.1227745130.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > Hi, > > I'm new to TLUG (and I consider myself new to Toronto too). > Hello everyone! > > I'm wondering where can I read more about TLUG vs. NewTLUG (I've found > info > on TLUG, http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/About . But I can't find info on > NewTLUG). > > I don't want to start a "religious" war between the two groups, but just > want to know better of two groups, e.g., the purpose and dynamic, etc, so > that I can tell which one (or both) better suit(s) me. > > Also, from the welcome message of the tlug mailing: > >> The administrator would like to welcome you to one or more of the >> following mailing lists: >> >> TLUG >> NewTLUG > > But I get an error message when trying to subscribe to NewTLUG: > > >>>> subscribe NewTLUG > **** subscribe: unknown list 'NewTLUG'. > > Any one can shed some light on this? > > Thanks > > Antonio T. Sun If you subscribe to the TLUG announcements, you will also get the NewTLUG announcements. NewTLUG was originally for newcomers to Linux, but is now for the north Toronto members, and TLUG for downtown Toronto members. +++ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 02:31:21 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:31:21 -0500 Subject: TLUG vs. NewTLUG In-Reply-To: <58490.192.30.202.20.1227745130.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <28003.216.59.248.96.1227546355.squirrel@lavabit.com> <58490.192.30.202.20.1227745130.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <492E0679.9080503@telly.org> jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org wrote: > NewTLUG was originally for newcomers to Linux, but is now for the north > Toronto members, and TLUG for downtown Toronto members. > NewTLUG still has more of a new user bent to it and tends to be less technical; last night's talks were on user interfaces and netbooks. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 03:52:18 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:52:18 -0500 Subject: OT(NCIX Black Friday) was ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <492E1972.6080705@pppoe.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > As for netbook deals: they come and go. For example, last Friday, > Staples was selling an Acer Aspire One for $300. This Friday, in the > US ("Black Friday"), Dell will be selling its netbook for $300. > Finding a deal requires figuring out what you want (some keyboards are > nicer than others, does Blue Tooth matter?, battery sizes differ, SSD > or hard drive?,...) and then awaiting a deal to come up. eSng and PC > Village have had sometimes had good sale prices. > > http://www.ncix.com/promo/promosale.php?webid=blackfriday2008 May be worth a look :-) * * -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 04:08:16 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:08:16 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: <20081126140943.GA5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081126140943.GA5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hi Thank you for all the information. I do have a good idea of the steps I will make > > Changing harddrives on a laptop only requires knowledge of how to > operate a small phillips screw driver. > I will definitely attempt repairing it. As I said before, I had gone through the process before and it costed me way more than I was happy about. Initially, I had thought it was an inverter problem. So, I went out and looked for Sony's inverter. Then I sat down and took the whole thing apart. After, replacing the thing, the problem remained. I them came to realize I need the whole LCD display. It took 3 months to find an similar old laptop and by then, I had forgotten how to assemble it again. Anyway, I will update you how it goes. > Either the harddrive tray has a quick release, or sometimes it needs 1 > or 2 screws removed. It should then slide out. You then have to remove > 4 screws (usually) from the tray holding the drive, and then the drive > comes out of the tray. You then get another drive the same size > (usually 2.5" wide x 9mm as far as I remember, although I think some > were 12mm thick). Make sure to get the right IDE or SATA depending on > what is there. If you bring the old drive to the computer store it > should be simple to get something the same interface and size. You then > install the new drive in the tray the same way the old one was removed, > and put it back in the system and do a fresh install of everything, or > restore from backup, or whatever you like. > > Some systems may not support IDE drives larger than 137GB, although SATA > never has that problem. Canada computers has 120GB IDE laptop drives > for $72, so it isn't hugely expensive. If the machine supports larger > than 137GB, then a 250GB is $102 and a 160GB is $78. > >> That open up the second option, instead of repairing the current >> system, how about picking one of those inexpensive laptop? I am sure >> the life of this hard disk would be lengthened if its not switched on >> every evening, so I would still have access to my data. This option is >> looking really appealing and therefore the purpose of the post. > > Replacing a harddrive does not qualify as a repair job. More of an > upgrade. Thanks for the details. Its a Compaq nx7300 by the way if anyone has more information. > > If you got an external drive enclosure to put the old drive in, you > could copy your data over to the new driver that way. > >> The way economy is going, one has to try and get as much value for >> every dollar as possible. I have noticed people posting really good >> computer deals in the past. Would anyone be aware of a current deal >> involving ASUS EEE? Which model offer the best value for the money? I >> am leaning toward the solid state disk to avoid my current pains in >> the future. > > Solid state disks can fail too. They do eventually wear out. They > don't mind vibrations and such though, which might help. > Currently, I just use Centos 5. No duo booting. If I end up picking one of these ASUS, it will be Eee PC 1000 - Madi?s suggestion, with SSD. I would also like to run Debian, need to dip my figures there after a long good relationship with Red Hat stuff. Now do Debian have a file system that is friendly to that technology ? Regards, William > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 04:28:42 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:28:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: <20081126052413.85964992.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20081126052413.85964992.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, ted leslie wrote: > sweet!! you mean if i take the SIM out of my crack-berry (that has a > data account), and put it in this puppy, i can surf from my linux laptop? You may not even need to. Most (all?) of the 3G phones can be used as modems for a laptop. Not every provider thinks that is ok, but I believe Rogers says it is ok. Finding the right cable to connect their 3G phone to the laptop is left as an exercise for the reader. > how much can one of these be had for? Without a plan they quoted me about $250 for the device itself. I signed up for one year and got it for free. > anything special you have to configure with your account at rogers end? Not at Rogers end. There is a Rogers specific PPP config at the laptop end but basing it on one I found for Movistar in Spain and using some educated guess work I knotted it out fairly quickly. Infact the Movistar config turned out to be a lot closer to Rogers than I had originally expected. I went and researched several of the options only to discover they were identical to the Movistar example I had :) > can one just get a "Novatel MC950D" if its just rogers putting a sicker > on it? It may well work but I'm not sure if Rogers would endorse a move like that (assuming they could detect it). > post what type of data rates your getting with it, > dammit i want one now! :) I haven't measured it but when it is set on UMTS the speed is pretty good. I used it on the GO Bus from Meadowvale to Toronto Union this morning and had UMTS and good speed all the way. I used it on the GO Train this afternoon and had EDGE in Union station (slow) but it synced to UMTS as soon as I left the station (fast). Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 04:33:57 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:33:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: <492D3FAD.5050908-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20081126052413.85964992.tleslie@tcn.net> <492D3FAD.5050908@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, James Knott wrote: > And what does the service cost? http://www.rogers.com/web/content/wireless-plans/iphone_card_plans I signed up for the Flex plan. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 04:42:43 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:42:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: <492D3F12.5030200-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <492D3F12.5030200@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, James Knott wrote: > What sort of device does it appear as? My cell phone looks like a > standard dial up modem, which means it doesn't require any drivers etc. Exactly. The device appears as a serial device (/dev/ttyUSB0 for me) and is managed through pppd. I've used wvdial to do the dial-up script this time. In the past I had occassionally used a GPRS phone for slow (and expensive) data access and it appeared the same way. There is a *gotcha* in starting the device but this isn't as bad as it first sounds as it is easy to work around. When the MC950D is first detected by Ubuntu (and probably other distros) is appears as a mass storage device[1]. I fixed this problem with the following method. Not ideal but it works consistently: 1. Make sure /proc/bus/usb is mounted 2. Plug in MC950D 3. Execute the following commands as root rmmod usbserial eject /dev/sr1 modprobe usbserial vendor=0x1410 product=0x4400 Now you should see /dev/ttyUSB0 & /dev/ttyUSB1 in dmesg. You can then execute the script to establish the "serial" connection. I'll be automating this more in due course and I hope to find a smarter way of getting it to recognise the MC950D as a "serial" device. [1] It actually is a mass storage device. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 05:08:44 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:08:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20081126052413.85964992.tleslie@tcn.net> <492D3FAD.5050908@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Robert Brockway | On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, James Knott wrote: | | > And what does the service cost? | | http://www.rogers.com/web/content/wireless-plans/iphone_card_plans | | I signed up for the Flex plan. I just looked this up. What gets me is: Monthly System Access Fee (non-government fee) $6.95 They cannot quite bring themselves to say "a fee we charge because we can". Calling it a "non-government fee" just doubles the weasliness. Of course there is an even funnier one: Monthly 911 Emergency Access Fee (non-government fee) 50cents Can you even use 911 with this? Isn't it data-only? And then there is: (If usage is greater than 5 GB, 3cents per additional MB will be charged) Is that for 911? I cannot tell. If so, how do megabytes relate to 911? If not, why is it broken out from their already specified prices? Rogers marketing really puts me off. Funny thing: their phone support for cable is now really quite good; this is a change. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 05:13:51 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:13:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | As for netbook deals: they come and go. For example, last Friday, | Staples was selling an Acer Aspire One for $300. Oops. I think that this price was for a MSI Wind Netbook u90. It is currently $319.95. Like many netbooks, this has a bilingual Canadian keyboard. In theory, I like this, but I'm not sure that my fingers would adjust well. Other figures of note: - 512M RAM - 8.9" display - 0.3MP webcam - 3-cell battery - Linux - 120GB drive http://www.staples.ca/ENG/Catalog/cat_sku.asp?webid=770678&CatIds=%2C&AffixedCode=&=&= -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 12:17:32 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 07:17:32 -0500 Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20081126052413.85964992.tleslie@tcn.net> <492D3FAD.5050908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <492E8FDC.50706@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, James Knott wrote: > >> And what does the service cost? > > http://www.rogers.com/web/content/wireless-plans/iphone_card_plans > > I signed up for the Flex plan. > > Rob > I notice they charge a 911 fee. I wonder how many people call 911 via the internet? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 14:03:27 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 09:03:27 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: References: <20081126140943.GA5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20081127140327.GE5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:08:16PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: > Thanks for the details. Its a Compaq nx7300 by the way if anyone has > more information. As far as I can find, that uses a SATA drive. > Currently, I just use Centos 5. No duo booting. If I end up picking > one of these ASUS, it will be Eee PC 1000 - Madi?s suggestion, with > SSD. I would also like to run Debian, need to dip my figures there > after a long good relationship with Red Hat stuff. Now do Debian have > a file system that is friendly to that technology ? Distributions don't pick filesystems. The kernel provides filesystems. If you can run windows on it, then it must have hardware wear leveling, in which case ext3 should run fine on it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 14:16:13 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 09:16:13 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: <492D9D62.4050205-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20081126182957.GB5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492D9D62.4050205@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20081127141613.GF5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 02:02:58PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > Not to defend the Apple Air, but it does have a wired jack. It's on a > hidden drop-down door on the righ-rear side. Then why isn't this in the specs, and why does the specs suggest an apple usb ethernet adapter and why has no review of it ever found this port? THe spec page even has "No Wi-Fi? Connect to wired networks with this simple one-piece external adapter" (USB Ethernet Adapter MB442Z/A). Only putting display port on the thing was another nut job move, although perhaps apple users never use external displays. I did see recently some complaints that you can't play videos on external monitors if they require copyprotection, since the copyprotection doesn't work on vga or dvi connections only native display port. Apparently that isn't going over well with some users. > To replace the hard drive on an iBook G4 took nearly 3h... Strike that, > it was 3h to open the damn thing without special tools (if you cared > about nor marring up the pretty white plastic). I *hate* working on iBooks! Yeah they are not end user friendly when it comes to repairs and upgrades. > Though I agree with this view 100%, I don't think it's fair to impart > this on non-geeks. Many people have an unrealistic view of computer > reliability. Just yesterday I had a client, whose optical drive is > failing, exclaim "That happens!?" when I told her. It is reality. Explaining reality to people IS a good idea. Trying to hide reality from people is what makes them think computers are magic and then get upset when they turn out not to be. > What we need to do, as geeks, is better educate the non-geek population > on the inherent lack of reliability and, thus, the need for frequent > backups. Exactly. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 14:19:34 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 09:19:34 -0500 Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20081126052413.85964992.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20081127141934.GG5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:28:42PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: > You may not even need to. Most (all?) of the 3G phones can be used as > modems for a laptop. Not every provider thinks that is ok, but I believe > Rogers says it is ok. Just be prepared to pay dearly for the data transfers if you do. I don't think it counts as regular air time unfortunately, unless they somehow still support 9600bps dial up on them. Most providers are stopping support for that. > Finding the right cable to connect their 3G phone to the laptop is left as > an exercise for the reader. Well my nokia from rogers came with a usb cable in the box. > Without a plan they quoted me about $250 for the device itself. I signed > up for one year and got it for free. > > Not at Rogers end. > > There is a Rogers specific PPP config at the laptop end but basing it on > one I found for Movistar in Spain and using some educated guess work I > knotted it out fairly quickly. Infact the Movistar config turned out to > be a lot closer to Rogers than I had originally expected. I went and > researched several of the options only to discover they were identical to > the Movistar example I had :) Nifty. > It may well work but I'm not sure if Rogers would endorse a move like > that (assuming they could detect it). As long as you have a plan and pay your bill, I am not sure rogers cares very much what device you have. After all they have probably the worlds most expensive data plans. > I haven't measured it but when it is set on UMTS the speed is pretty good. > > I used it on the GO Bus from Meadowvale to Toronto Union this morning and > had UMTS and good speed all the way. I used it on the GO Train this > afternoon and had EDGE in Union station (slow) but it synced to UMTS as > soon as I left the station (fast). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 14:28:24 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 09:28:24 -0500 Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20081126052413.85964992.tleslie@tcn.net> <492D3FAD.5050908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20081127142824.GH5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:33:57PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, James Knott wrote: > > >And what does the service cost? > > http://www.rogers.com/web/content/wireless-plans/iphone_card_plans > > I signed up for the Flex plan. Not bad prices really. Although they sure like to punish anyone that exceeds their plan. You pay $25, you get 500MB. So you pay: 0-500MB $25.00 501MB $30.00 502MB $35.00 503MB $40.00 504MB $45.00 505MB $50.00 506MB $50.03 507MB $50.06 etc... 1000MB $64.85 So that first few MB after you exceed the plan doubles your monthly bill and then it goes down to very little again. So to exceed you plan by 1% costs you 100% penalty. Anything beyond that, costs marginally more. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 14:40:08 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 09:40:08 -0500 Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20081126052413.85964992.tleslie@tcn.net> <492D3FAD.5050908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20081127144008.GI5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 12:08:44AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I just looked this up. What gets me is: > > Monthly System Access Fee (non-government fee) $6.95 > > They cannot quite bring themselves to say "a fee we charge because we > can". Calling it a "non-government fee" just doubles the weasliness. Oh that is the 'make our advertised price look better' fee. > Of course there is an even funnier one: > Monthly 911 Emergency Access Fee (non-government fee) 50cents > Can you even use 911 with this? Isn't it data-only? Hmm, they should not charge that if the account has no phone capabilities (so no phone number = no 911 fee I believe). > And then there is: > (If usage is greater than 5 GB, 3cents per additional MB will be > charged) > Is that for 911? I cannot tell. If so, how do megabytes relate to > 911? If not, why is it broken out from their already specified prices? No that's the data plan part. If you use more than your quota, you get a nasty surprise. > Rogers marketing really puts me off. Funny thing: their phone support > for cable is now really quite good; this is a change. Hmm, I haven't had to call them for a long time. Other than their stupid DNS changes, both cable modem and cable tv seems to be working just fine lately. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 15:10:46 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:10:46 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: <20081127141613.GF5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081126182957.GB5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492D9D62.4050205@alteeve.com> <20081127141613.GF5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <492EB876.1080308@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 02:02:58PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Not to defend the Apple Air, but it does have a wired jack. It's on a >> hidden drop-down door on the righ-rear side. > > Then why isn't this in the specs, and why does the specs suggest an > apple usb ethernet adapter and why has no review of it ever found this > port? THe spec page even has "No Wi-Fi? Connect to wired networks with > this simple one-piece external adapter" (USB Ethernet Adapter MB442Z/A). *shurg*... Maybe my client has an older version of it? All I know is that last week when I had to fix it after it barfed on an update I plugged in an ethernet cable. Or had a heck of a hallucination. > Only putting display port on the thing was another nut job move, > although perhaps apple users never use external displays. I did see > recently some complaints that you can't play videos on external monitors > if they require copyprotection, since the copyprotection doesn't work on > vga or dvi connections only native display port. Apparently that isn't > going over well with some users. That was just announced, I don't think it's on any machines in the market yet. However, I do think it is certainly one of the most boneheaded moves Apple has made. >> Though I agree with this view 100%, I don't think it's fair to impart >> this on non-geeks. Many people have an unrealistic view of computer >> reliability. Just yesterday I had a client, whose optical drive is >> failing, exclaim "That happens!?" when I told her. > > It is reality. Explaining reality to people IS a good idea. Trying to > hide reality from people is what makes them think computers are magic > and then get upset when they turn out not to be. > >> What we need to do, as geeks, is better educate the non-geek population >> on the inherent lack of reliability and, thus, the need for frequent >> backups. > > Exactly. There has been a general trend away from "reality" and personal responsibility in the last twenty years. Particularly in the last ten years. If anything good comes out of the current social and financial mess, I hope it's a good date with reality. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 15:40:46 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:40:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: <20081127144008.GI5681-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20081126052413.85964992.tleslie@tcn.net> <492D3FAD.5050908@rogers.com> <20081127144008.GI5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: [Lots of nit-picking about Rogers data plans -- don't read this long post if that isn't of interest.] | From: Lennart Sorensen | On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:33:57PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: | > http://www.rogers.com/web/content/wireless-plans/iphone_card_plans | > | > I signed up for the Flex plan. | | Not bad prices really. | | Although they sure like to punish anyone that exceeds their plan. | | You pay $25, you get 500MB. | | So you pay: | 0-500MB $25.00 | 501MB $30.00 | 502MB $35.00 | 503MB $40.00 | 504MB $45.00 | 505MB $50.00 | 506MB $50.03 | 507MB $50.06 | etc... | 1000MB $64.85 | | So that first few MB after you exceed the plan doubles your monthly bill | and then it goes down to very little again. Robert said that he signed up for the "Flex plan". You are reading off the earlier table, the "Data Only Plans". The flex plans SEEM to be $5 / month more expensive but gracefully switch tiers to match your usage. Kind of like paying for an automatic transmission. Seems like a good choice because you don't have to know ahead of time how much you will use. Charging extra for this mechanism seems like more gouging. I don't understand why this is called "Flex Rate Plans". Isn't it really one plan? You would be nuts to sign up to anything other than the 500MB plan since there appears to be no penalty for the automatic switch to the service level that you actually use. | From: Lennart Sorensen | > Of course there is an even funnier one: | > Monthly 911 Emergency Access Fee (non-government fee) 50cents | > Can you even use 911 with this? Isn't it data-only? | | Hmm, they should not charge that if the account has no phone | capabilities (so no phone number = no 911 fee I believe). Ahh. The footnotes say you get a voice capability whether you want it or not. And by capability, I don't mean that you can actually use it without a different device (but the same SIM): # If you subscribe to a Data Plan only, then the Monthly System Access Fee and 911 Emergency Service Fee will apply to your Data Plan. If you subscribe to a Data Plan as an add-on to a Voice Plan, the Monthly System Access Fee and 911 Emergency Service Fee will only apply to your Voice Plan. # Voice calls are $1 per minute if a Voice Plan is not subscribed to separately. | On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 12:08:44AM -0500, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > And then there is: | > (If usage is greater than 5 GB, 3cents per additional MB will be | > charged) | > Is that for 911? I cannot tell. If so, how do megabytes relate to | > 911? If not, why is it broken out from their already specified prices? | | No that's the data plan part. If you use more than your quota, you get | a nasty surprise. Oh, I think that I see now. It is already part of the appropriate row of each table (the last row), and then they add it as a footnote-without-a-mark to the second table. The marginal cost per MB for the last step in the plan is ($85-$65) / (5GB - 3GB) = $20 / 2GB = 1 cent / MB So it seems rude that they charge 3 cents / MB when you go beyond the last tier. The whole tiering is done in a cockeyed way. The marginal rates are Tier 1 to Tier 2: 1 cent/megabyte, step size .5GB Tier 2 to Tier 3: 1.5 cents/megabyte, step size 1GB Tier 3 to Tier 4: 1.5 cents/megabyte, step size 1GB Tier 4 to Tier 5: 1 cent per megabyte, step size 2GB beyond: 3 cents / megabyte, step size .001GB Clearly the bargain is the Tier 1 to Tier 2 transition: not only is it at the lowest rate, it is also at the finest grain. Why could they not have a simple formula and let it go at that? Probably because the last thing phone companies want is plans that can be compared easily. Or understood easily. Here is a simple formula that would be a rationalization of the flex plan: $25 + SAF + 911 Fee + $5 / 500MB (usage rounded up to nearest 500MB) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 20:13:03 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 15:13:03 -0500 Subject: Remote calendar that works? Message-ID: <20081127201303.GA10288@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I need a way to get a few dozen people to share calendars in a what that actually works. The WebDAV/ics file/Lightning/Sunbird system just doesn't hold up - the files get corrupted constantly, and it doesn't play well with a Blackberry. I need something that works at least as well as Outlook/Exchange - does such a thing exist? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 20:34:18 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:34:18 -0800 Subject: Remote calendar that works? In-Reply-To: <20081127201303.GA10288-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20081127201303.GA10288@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <7ac602420811271234k26f83ef4nbf733f0fb55e0327@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 12:13 PM, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I need a way to get a few dozen people to share calendars in a what that > actually works. The WebDAV/ics file/Lightning/Sunbird system just > doesn't hold up - the files get corrupted constantly, and it doesn't > play well with a Blackberry. > > I need something that works at least as well as Outlook/Exchange - does > such a thing exist? Thanks. I like Google's offering through GMail, but I don't know how to use Outlook, so I have no idea how it compares. I also don't know if it works with Blackberry. I do know they offer some kind of public URL as access to a given calendar, so it might be possible to use a Google Calendar from outside Google's web offering. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 06:38:22 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 01:38:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20081126052413.85964992.tleslie@tcn.net> <492D3FAD.5050908@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Nov 2008, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Monthly System Access Fee (non-government fee) $6.95 > > They cannot quite bring themselves to say "a fee we charge because we > can". Calling it a "non-government fee" just doubles the weasliness. Indeed. I just factor it in to the price before deciding to buy. Canada needs more competition in the telco space, or something... > Of course there is an even funnier one: > Monthly 911 Emergency Access Fee (non-government fee) 50cents > Can you even use 911 with this? Isn't it data-only? Yes. I'm thinking about asking the CRTC about this one. It's only 50c but how can they charge a 911 fee when I can't call 911 on the device. OTOH the SIM could go into a phone and then 911 could be called, but it seems unlikely I'd do that in an emergency :) > And then there is: > (If usage is greater than 5 GB, 3cents per additional MB will be > charged) > Is that for 911? I cannot tell. If so, how do megabytes relate to > 911? If not, why is it broken out from their already specified prices? That's a data cost. There is actually a contradiction on the page btw. One part says the first 5MB after you go over quota is $5/MB and then 3c/MB and the other part just lists the 3c/MB cost. > Rogers marketing really puts me off. Funny thing: their phone support Indeed. Overly complex "plans" just make me walk away. Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 21:26:45 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:26:45 -0500 Subject: Remote calendar that works? In-Reply-To: <20081127201303.GA10288-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20081127201303.GA10288@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <492F1095.4060108@dinamis.com> William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > I need a way to get a few dozen people to share calendars in a what that > actually works. The WebDAV/ics file/Lightning/Sunbird system just > doesn't hold up - the files get corrupted constantly, and it doesn't > play well with a Blackberry. > > I need something that works at least as well as Outlook/Exchange - does > such a thing exist? Thanks. I'm evaluating Google Calendar, more correctly, Google Apps (Education Edition) and Airset for a small K-12 school. It's surprising how complex calendaring can get when you start paying attention to the details. I'm leaning more towards Google Calendar. It is very easy-to-use and powerful but it has some limitations. Perhaps those limitations are because I'm not using it effectively. I am able to subscribe to GCal from Lightning and I can even make changes from Lightning on Google Calendars on which I have read/write privileges. We have multiple parties in the school who need access to the calendar: staff, school administration, students, parents, the student council, and the PSC (Parent Support Committee - we do fundraising and coordinate social activities at the school). I am going to create one calendar per class to keep events that are pertinent to only one class restricted to that particular calendar, one general calendar for global events, one staff calendar, one student council calendar, one calendar per class for the PSC and one general calendar for the PSC. Why not put all events on one calendar? Even in a small school, there are many overlapping activities. The calendar will be an absolute mess of detail and there will be no way of hiding or showing detail as needed if everything is thrown on one calendar. By separating the calendars, I can cut down on the amount of clutter for those people who only need to see a subset of all the events, such as a parent, student, or teacher, while at the same time making it easier for those who need to see all the events, such as school administration, to be able to hide and show details as needed. Separate calendars also makes access control easier. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3273 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Nov 27 21:28:42 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:28:42 -0500 Subject: Remote calendar that works? In-Reply-To: <7ac602420811271234k26f83ef4nbf733f0fb55e0327-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20081127201303.GA10288@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <7ac602420811271234k26f83ef4nbf733f0fb55e0327@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <492F110A.90701@dinamis.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > I like Google's offering through GMail, but I don't know how to use > Outlook, so I have no idea how it compares. I also don't know if it > works with Blackberry. I do know they offer some kind of public URL > as access to a given calendar, so it might be possible to use a Google > Calendar from outside Google's web offering. Google Calendar for Mobile -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3273 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 03:16:22 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:16:22 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox Message-ID: Hi pals, I hope there is someone here who have influence in health ministry as I got a small problem. They seem not to like my browser. They also do not indicate what type of browser I should use. Now, no need to whine here, but I was kind of surprised to stumble across a site that whine about unsupported browser, but I could not avoid having a faint of annoyance getting this error from a government website. When I come across this issue from the private industry, I just move along, but here, they nailed me. But frankly though, why do governments make e-government such a painful experience? http://www.gov.on.ca/ont/portal/!ut/p/.cmd/cs/.ce/7_0_A/.s/7_0_252/_s.7_0_A/7_0_252/_l/en?docid=STEL02_040172 Error The following error(s) occurred: * E_COM_62 The ServiceOntario address change cannot be accessed with your browser or browser version. Please select the ServiceOntario Welcome Page link below to review the minimum browser requirements or other ways to upgrade your browser. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 03:27:22 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:27:22 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081128032722.GA13094@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 10:16:22PM -0500, William Muriithi wrote: >I hope there is someone here who have influence in health ministry as >I got a small problem. They seem not to like my browser. They also do >not indicate what type of browser I should use. I may have some influence, but I cannot reproduce your error. Could it be a transient problem? It is working fine for me, based on the link you sent. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 03:51:33 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:51:33 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: <20081128032722.GA13094-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20081128032722.GA13094@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: William > I may have some influence, but I cannot reproduce your error. Could it > be a transient problem? It is working fine for me, based on the link > you sent. Great. Good to know we may have a solution. Now, what browser are you using? I have tried changing the address from both firefox 3.02 and konqueror 3.5.4 running on Centos 5. The problem is not transient as I just tried again with the same result. I do not believe the network has anything to do with it, as the error clearly point to the browser. > -- > > yours, > > William William (squired) > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFJL2UaHQtmiuz+KT8RAjwlAJ0UUd3fCaqP+jmXltPcIIlaxemj2gCdGbyK > 66DFX4AiubWkehr5DhFuhK8= > =MVqd > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 03:57:00 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:57:00 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: <20081128032722.GA13094-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20081128032722.GA13094@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: William > I may have some influence, but I cannot reproduce your error. Could it > be a transient problem? It is working fine for me, based on the link > you sent. I think I know what you did. You just visited the page the link above point to. You need to take one more step and click on the button labeled [change your address here]. Regards, William > -- > > yours, > > William > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFJL2UaHQtmiuz+KT8RAjwlAJ0UUd3fCaqP+jmXltPcIIlaxemj2gCdGbyK > 66DFX4AiubWkehr5DhFuhK8= > =MVqd > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 04:07:12 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 23:07:12 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <20081128032722.GA13094@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <492F6E70.8050100@gmail.com> William Muriithi wrote: > William > > >> I may have some influence, but I cannot reproduce your error. Could it >> be a transient problem? It is working fine for me, based on the link >> you sent. >> > I think I know what you did. You just visited the page the link above > point to. You need to take one more step and click on the button > labeled [change your address here]. > Firefox 3.0.4 . The problem exists. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 04:35:29 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 23:35:29 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <20081128032722.GA13094@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <492F7511.4090703@pppoe.ca> William Muriithi wrote: > William > > >> I may have some influence, but I cannot reproduce your error. Could it >> be a transient problem? It is working fine for me, based on the link >> you sent. >> > I think I know what you did. You just visited the page the link above > point to. You need to take one more step and click on the button > labeled [change your address here]. > > I'm using Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.17) Gecko/20080827 Iceweasel/2.0.0.17 on Debian; works fine. https://www.indcoi.serviceontario.ca/WebChannel/?lang=en displays ServiceOntario Logo ServiceOntario ServiceOntario address change Welcome to the ServiceOntario address change The ServiceOntario address change is a fast, easy and secure way to notify the Ministry of Transportation, the Ministry of Natural Resources and the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care of your address change. *Protecting Your Information* If you are using this online service on a shared computer in a public area (i.e. public library), it is important to ensure that you do not leave the computer unattended while accessing the service. Before leaving the computer, it is also important that you fully exit the application, clear your browser's cache (This link opens in a new window) and close down your browser. This will ensure that no one else can access any personal information you may have entered. *Navigating Through the Program* Each page of this online service has navigation buttons clearly marked as 'Next' and 'Previous'. Use these navigation buttons instead of your Internet browser's buttons. You may encounter errors if you use your browser buttons or shortcut keys to navigate through the program. This program also has 'Help' and 'Help With This Page' buttons where you will find useful information to answer any questions you may have. *Selecting the Right Option* To change your address within Ontario for more than one ministry, please select the Integrated Address Change option. If your mailing address is outside of Ontario, you must select Ministry of Transportation and Ministry of Natural Resources individually. The Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care does not accept addresses outside of Ontario through this address change service. Help[link opens in a new browser window] Please select one of the following address change options: Integrated Address Change (change address for more than one ministry) Help[link Help for Integrated Address Change opens in a new browser window] Ministry of Transportation (Driver's Licence and/or Vehicle Registration) Help[link Help for Ministry of Transportation opens in a new browser window] Ministry of Natural Resources (Outdoors Card) Help[link Help for Ministry of Natural Resources opens in a new browser window] Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care (Health Card) Help[link Help for Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care opens in a new browser window] Return to ServiceOntario Welcome Page MTO Information Page[link opens in a new browser window] | MNR Information Page[link opens in a new browser window] | MOHLTC Information Page[link opens in a new browser window] Frequently Asked Questions[link opens in a new browser window] | Privacy Statement[link opens in a new browser window] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 04:42:02 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 23:42:02 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: <492F6E70.8050100-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20081128032722.GA13094@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <492F6E70.8050100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <492F769A.20509@utoronto.ca> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > William Muriithi wrote: >> William >> >> >>> I may have some influence, but I cannot reproduce your error. Could it >>> be a transient problem? It is working fine for me, based on the link >>> you sent. >>> >> I think I know what you did. You just visited the page the link above >> point to. You need to take one more step and click on the button >> labeled [change your address here]. >> > > Firefox 3.0.4 . The problem exists. Iceweasel 3.0.3 no problem. Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.0.3) Gecko/2008092814 Iceweasel/3.0.3 (Debian-3.0.3-3) Check out the User Agent Switcher plugin for firefox, it'll probably help: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/59 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 05:29:08 2008 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:29:08 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: <492F6E70.8050100-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20081128032722.GA13094@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <492F6E70.8050100@gmail.com> Message-ID: Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > William Muriithi wrote: >> William >> >> >>> I may have some influence, but I cannot reproduce your error. Could it >>> be a transient problem? It is working fine for me, based on the link >>> you sent. >>> >> I think I know what you did. You just visited the page the link above >> point to. You need to take one more step and click on the button >> labeled [change your address here]. >> > > Firefox 3.0.4 . The problem exists. Firefox 3.0.3 . Exists here too. Trouble would seem to be in the action the site takes handling Change 
your address here Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 12:16:23 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 07:16:23 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <492FE117.2080904@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > Hi pals, > > I hope there is someone here who have influence in health ministry as > I got a small problem. They seem not to like my browser. They also do > not indicate what type of browser I should use. > > Now, no need to whine here, but I was kind of surprised to stumble > across a site that whine about unsupported browser, but I could not > avoid having a faint of annoyance getting this error from a government > website. When I come across this issue from the private industry, I > just move along, but here, they nailed me. But frankly though, why do > governments make e-government such a painful experience? > > http://www.gov.on.ca/ont/portal/!ut/p/.cmd/cs/.ce/7_0_A/.s/7_0_252/_s.7_0_A/7_0_252/_l/en?docid=STEL02_040172 > > Error > The following error(s) occurred: > > * > > E_COM_62 The ServiceOntario address change cannot be accessed > with your browser or browser version. > > Please select the ServiceOntario Welcome Page link below to > review the minimum browser requirements or other ways to upgrade your > browser. > > I just opened that site in Seamonkey, Konqueror and Firefox, all on OpenSUSE 11.0. I didn't see any error. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 12:36:13 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 07:36:13 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <20081128032722.GA13094@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <492FE5BD.5070905@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > William > > >> I may have some influence, but I cannot reproduce your error. Could it >> be a transient problem? It is working fine for me, based on the link >> you sent. >> > I think I know what you did. You just visited the page the link above > point to. You need to take one more step and click on the button > labeled [change your address here]. > That button works in Seamonkey. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 12:37:49 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 07:37:49 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: <492F6E70.8050100-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20081128032722.GA13094@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <492F6E70.8050100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <492FE61D.4020503@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > William Muriithi wrote: >> William >> >> >>> I may have some influence, but I cannot reproduce your error. Could it >>> be a transient problem? It is working fine for me, based on the link >>> you sent. >>> >> I think I know what you did. You just visited the page the link above >> point to. You need to take one more step and click on the button >> labeled [change your address here]. >> > > Firefox 3.0.4 . The problem exists. > I have noticed a couple of things that work with other browsers, but not Firefox. For example the help in a configuration utility that I use at work, works fine with Seamonkey or IE, but not Firefox. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 14:45:00 2008 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:45:00 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081128094500.078faf6d.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:16:22 -0500 "William Muriithi" wrote: > Hi pals, > > I hope there is someone here who have influence in health ministry as > I got a small problem. They seem not to like my browser. They also do > not indicate what type of browser I should use. > > Now, no need to whine here, but I was kind of surprised to stumble > across a site that whine about unsupported browser, but I could not > avoid having a faint of annoyance getting this error from a government > website. When I come across this issue from the private industry, I > just move along, but here, they nailed me. But frankly though, why do > governments make e-government such a painful experience? William, Opera brings up a functional looking website. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 14:46:20 2008 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:46:20 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081128094620.19c1a523.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:16:22 -0500 "William Muriithi" wrote: > Hi pals, > > I hope there is someone here who have influence in health ministry as > I got a small problem. They seem not to like my browser. They also do > not indicate what type of browser I should use. > > Now, no need to whine here, but I was kind of surprised to stumble > across a site that whine about unsupported browser, but I could not > avoid having a faint of annoyance getting this error from a government > website. When I come across this issue from the private industry, I > just move along, but here, they nailed me. But frankly though, why do > governments make e-government such a painful experience? William, The website explicitly claims to support Linux. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 14:48:54 2008 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:48:54 -0500 Subject: Rogers Mobile Internet Stick working under Linux In-Reply-To: References: <492D3F12.5030200@rogers.com> Message-ID: <493004D6.6080207@utoronto.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > Exactly. The device appears as a serial device (/dev/ttyUSB0 for me) > and is managed through pppd. I've used wvdial to do the dial-up script > this time. > > In the past I had occassionally used a GPRS phone for slow (and > expensive) data access and it appeared the same way. > > There is a *gotcha* in starting the device but this isn't as bad as it > first sounds as it is easy to work around. > > When the MC950D is first detected by Ubuntu (and probably other distros) > is appears as a mass storage device[1]. I fixed this problem with the > following method. Not ideal but it works consistently: > > 1. Make sure /proc/bus/usb is mounted > 2. Plug in MC950D > 3. Execute the following commands as root > > rmmod usbserial > eject /dev/sr1 > modprobe usbserial vendor=0x1410 product=0x4400 > > Now you should see /dev/ttyUSB0 & /dev/ttyUSB1 in dmesg. > > You can then execute the script to establish the "serial" connection. > > I'll be automating this more in due course and I hope to find a smarter > way of getting it to recognise the MC950D as a "serial" device. > > [1] It actually is a mass storage device. Can the device be both a mass storage and a serial device at the same time? Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 17:03:58 2008 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:03:58 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <20081128032722.GA13094@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 10:57 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > William > >> I may have some influence, but I cannot reproduce your error. Could it >> be a transient problem? It is working fine for me, based on the link >> you sent. > I think I know what you did. You just visited the page the link above > point to. You need to take one more step and click on the button > labeled [change your address here]. Fails with Firefox 1.5.0.13pre (Yikes! Old!) and Konqueror 3.5.2. At the very least they should provided a link to the page that lists the minimum browser requirements. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 19:49:48 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:49:48 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <20081128032722.GA13094@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: Hallo, Thanks all. The feedback will help William pass over a much better bug report. It is now correct to say they is a problem, but we are now in the dark what the problem is. >>> I may have some influence, but I cannot reproduce your error. Could it >>> be a transient problem? It is working fine for me, based on the link >>> you sent. William, looks like this is not one of those case where they deliberately decided to not support a certain browser. And that make it even harder to figure out what the problem is. I guess, we will have to live with it but if possible let who ever is in control know he or she has on of those wacky bugs. May be with access to the web servers logs, he can figure out what it is > Fails with Firefox 1.5.0.13pre (Yikes! Old!) and Konqueror 3.5.2. At > the very least they should provided a link to the page that lists the > minimum browser requirements. > Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 21:33:32 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:33:32 -0500 Subject: ASUS Eee - deal you may know of In-Reply-To: <492EB876.1080308-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20081126182957.GB5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492D9D62.4050205@alteeve.com> <20081127141613.GF5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <492EB876.1080308@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20081128213332.GJ5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 10:10:46AM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote: > *shurg*... Maybe my client has an older version of it? All I know is > that last week when I had to fix it after it barfed on an update I > plugged in an ethernet cable. Was it a macbook air or some other mac? > Or had a heck of a hallucination. Probably had the usb adapter, or it wasn't a macbook air. I remember when it came out, the reviews mentioned it did not have ethernet, only wifi. Now given how many things require USB on the air (optical drive, ethernet, etc), the fact it only has one seems nuts too. It is pretty and looks good, but it became completely impractical as a result of the design. They could have made the thing exactly as thick as it is, but rather than beveled edges they could have put some real ports on the thing and made it useful. It would probably not have fit in an envelope anymore, but really how often is that useful? > That was just announced, I don't think it's on any machines in the > market yet. However, I do think it is certainly one of the most > boneheaded moves Apple has made. The specs for the macbook air lists displayport only on apple's website. I think the first one may have been a mini dvi port which then needed an adapter to turn into a real dvi or vga port. > There has been a general trend away from "reality" and personal > responsibility in the last twenty years. Particularly in the last ten > years. If anything good comes out of the current social and financial > mess, I hope it's a good date with reality. Well I put some effort into countering that movement. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 21:33:57 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:33:57 -0500 Subject: OT: TP-LINK TD-8816 EXTERNAL ADSL2/2 MODEM Message-ID: <493063C5.8040305@pppoe.ca> Hi Has anyone used the TP-LINK TD-8816 EXTERNAL ADSL2/2 MODEM? PC Village is offering it at $24.95, http://www.pcvonline.com/productDetails.aspx?prodID=6620 Any information will be appreciated. Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 21:38:11 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:38:11 -0500 Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: <492F769A.20509-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20081128032722.GA13094@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <492F6E70.8050100@gmail.com> <492F769A.20509@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20081128213811.GK5681@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 11:42:02PM -0500, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >William Muriithi wrote: > >>William > >> > >> > >>>I may have some influence, but I cannot reproduce your error. Could it > >>>be a transient problem? It is working fine for me, based on the link > >>>you sent. > >>> > >>I think I know what you did. You just visited the page the link above > >>point to. You need to take one more step and click on the button > >>labeled [change your address here]. > >> > > > >Firefox 3.0.4 . The problem exists. > > Iceweasel 3.0.3 no problem. > > Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.0.3) Gecko/2008092814 > Iceweasel/3.0.3 (Debian-3.0.3-3) > > Check out the User Agent Switcher plugin for firefox, it'll probably > help: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/59 Strangely: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9) Gecko/2008061709 Firefox/3.0 doesn't work. And the site says firefox 1.0 or higher, and this is 3.0 so it qualifies. Also says mozilla 1.4 or higher on linux, and 5.0 is higher than 1.4. And if redhat 2.4.21-4EL qualifies as minimum, then my debian 5.0 (testing) system certainly beats that. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Nov 28 22:11:54 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:11:54 -0500 Subject: Open Street Map party Message-ID: Toronto's next mapping event: Nov 29 Sat 10:00 AM Aroma Espresso Bar 500 Bloor St W Toronto, ON M5S 1Y3 416-303-454 RSVPs can be done via: http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Toronto/ Getting a basic account on meetup.com is free and will make sure you get a reminder e-mail before the event. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 29 01:09:34 2008 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:09:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Ministry of health and Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <20081128032722.GA13094@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <63582.192.30.202.20.1227920974.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Alex Beamish > On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 10:57 PM, William Muriithi > wrote: >> William >> >>> I may have some influence, but I cannot reproduce your error. Could it >>> be a transient problem? It is working fine for me, based on the link >>> you sent. >> I think I know what you did. You just visited the page the link above >> point to. You need to take one more step and click on the button >> labeled [change your address here]. > > Fails with Firefox 1.5.0.13pre (Yikes! Old!) and Konqueror 3.5.2. At > the very least they should provided a link to the page that lists the > minimum browser requirements. > > -- > Alex Beamish > Toronto, Ontario > aka talexb They state: IE 5.1 or Netscape 6 or Mozilla Firefox 1. The information may be wrong, but they _DO_ provide it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 29 16:53:25 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 11:53:25 -0500 Subject: New mouse, left-click is now interpreted as a double-click Message-ID: <20081129165325.GA30977@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I have a new Logitech Marble Mouse, and my left-clicks are not being interpreted as double-clicks. Anyone know how to fix this? Thanks. Info: Debian Testing xorg/testing uptodate 1:7.3+18 Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" Option "Name" "TrackMan Marble Mouse" Option "Vendor" "Logitech" Option "Protocol" "auto" Option "Buttons" "4" Option "EmulateWheel" "true" Option "EmulateWheelTimeout" "300" Option "EmulateWheelButton" "8" Option "YAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 29 17:07:00 2008 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 12:07:00 -0500 Subject: finding same files across hardrives Message-ID: <493176B4.80902@totaltravelmarketing.com> Hi everybody I've been trying to find files with the same name, asically Imade multiple copies when I had these workstations, I got a machine capable of holding more disk and data, but I need to get a list so I can safely delete the date from one drive(s) and keep the other, I tried using a combination of find and du but the ooutput is not helpful. Is there any linux rpm or souce to compile utility that may help to do this? Thanks, Jose -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 29 19:38:36 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:38:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: finding same files across hardrives In-Reply-To: <493176B4.80902-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <493176B4.80902@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: | From: Jose | I've been trying to find files with the same name [Some of your typos make it a bit harder to understand what you are asking.] | Is there any linux rpm or souce to compile utility that may help to do this? This kind of thing is easy to do with a shell script. For that reason I've never investigated if there are utilities to make this easier. Looking for matching names is a bit scary to me. I'd prefer to look for duplicate contents. To find non-obvious matching files, I do a md5sum or sha1sum of each file and then find files with identical hashes. Being paranoid, I actual do a cmp before I'm sure that they match (the chance of cryptographic hashes matching but the contents differing is VERY slight). Note: a lot of files are empty: the fact that all of them have identical contents really doesn't say that they the "same" file in a semantic sense. Are your duplicates systematically placed? Here is a shell script that I just whipped up WITHOUT TESTING. It requires that the file contents match, not just the name. Since I don't actually know what you want, I don't know whether this script could be useful. ================================================================ # stop if anything goes wrong set -ue # good directory: GD=$HOME/good # bad directory: BD=/somewhere/else cd $GD find . -type f -print | while read p do if [ -f "$p" ] && cmp -s "$p" "$BD/$p" then #### after testing this, change this to #### actually rm echo rm "$BD/$p" endif done ================================================================ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Sat Nov 29 20:03:00 2008 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 15:03:00 -0500 Subject: finding same files across hardrives In-Reply-To: References: <493176B4.80902@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <49319FF4.9000006@totaltravelmarketing.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Jose > > | I've been trying to find files with the same name > > [Some of your typos make it a bit harder to understand what you are > asking.] > > | Is there any linux rpm or souce to compile utility that may help to do this? > > This kind of thing is easy to do with a shell script. For that reason > I've never investigated if there are utilities to make this easier. > > Looking for matching names is a bit scary to me. I'd prefer to look > for duplicate contents. > > To find non-obvious matching files, I do a md5sum or sha1sum of each > file and then find files with identical hashes. Being paranoid, I > actual do a cmp before I'm sure that they match (the chance of > cryptographic hashes matching but the contents differing is VERY > slight). > > Note: a lot of files are empty: the fact that all of them have > identical contents really doesn't say that they the "same" file in a > semantic sense. > > Are your duplicates systematically placed? > > Here is a shell script that I just whipped up WITHOUT TESTING. > It requires that the file contents match, not just the name. > Since I don't actually know what you want, I don't know whether this > script could be useful. > > ================================================================ > # stop if anything goes wrong > set -ue > > # good directory: > GD=$HOME/good > # bad directory: > BD=/somewhere/else > > cd $GD > find . -type f -print | > while read p > do > if [ -f "$p" ] && cmp -s "$p" "$BD/$p" > then > #### after testing this, change this to > #### actually rm > echo rm "$BD/$p" > endif > done > ================================================================ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Hi Hugh Thanks for the script, basically not having tape backups I got to copy the same files on different hard drives as "backups", but now I have a backup solution and I would like to consolidate a single copy of the data and properly back it up Thanks again, JOse -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 30 16:01:42 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 11:01:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: finding same files across hardrives In-Reply-To: References: <493176B4.80902@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | Here is a shell script that I just whipped up WITHOUT TESTING. | endif Still not tested, but I did notice this typo. The shell symbol for ending an "if" construct is "fi", not "endif". Duhh. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andreilitvin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 30 17:48:28 2008 From: andreilitvin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrei) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:48:28 -0500 Subject: finding same files across hardrives In-Reply-To: <493176B4.80902-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <493176B4.80902@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <1228067308.7924.151.camel@goofz> How about something like: find /dir1 -type f | xargs md5sum | sort >data1.txt find /dir2 -type f | xargs md5sum | sort >data2.txt join ./data1.txt ./data2.txt I think this should give you all the files with the same content (not sure how it would handle duplicates though, but I guess it should work) Regards, Andrei On Sat, 2008-11-29 at 12:07 -0500, Jose wrote: > Hi everybody > > I've been trying to find files with the same name, asically Imade > multiple copies when I had these workstations, I got a machine capable > of holding more disk and data, but I need to get a list so I can safely > delete the date from one drive(s) and keep the other, I tried using a > combination of find and du but the ooutput is not helpful. > > Is there any linux rpm or souce to compile utility that may help to do this? > > Thanks, > > Jose > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andreilitvin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Nov 30 17:55:24 2008 From: andreilitvin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrei) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:55:24 -0500 Subject: finding same files across hardrives In-Reply-To: <1228067308.7924.151.camel@goofz> References: <493176B4.80902@totaltravelmarketing.com> <1228067308.7924.151.camel@goofz> Message-ID: <1228067724.7924.156.camel@goofz> And if you are looking for duplicate names, you could use find /dir -type f | xargs -n 1 sh -c 'echo `basename $0` $0' ... however that probably breaks when you have spaces in your names, so you can try a more "evil": find /dir -type f | xargs -n 1 sh -c 'echo `basename $0 | md5sum` $0' | ... to join by the MD5 of the name. Will run faster, but like someone else said, searching for same name for deduplication is fairly dangerous. MD5 search (while getting one or two good-nights sleep :-) ) is probably better. Andrei On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 12:48 -0500, Andrei wrote: > How about something like: > > find /dir1 -type f | xargs md5sum | sort >data1.txt > find /dir2 -type f | xargs md5sum | sort >data2.txt > > join ./data1.txt ./data2.txt > > > I think this should give you all the files with the same content (not > sure how it would handle duplicates though, but I guess it should work) > > Regards, > Andrei > > > On Sat, 2008-11-29 at 12:07 -0500, Jose wrote: > > Hi everybody > > > > I've been trying to find files with the same name, asically Imade > > multiple copies when I had these workstations, I got a machine capable > > of holding more disk and data, but I need to get a list so I can safely > > delete the date from one drive(s) and keep the other, I tried using a > > combination of find and du but the ooutput is not helpful. > > > > Is there any linux rpm or souce to compile utility that may help to do this? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jose > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists