From scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 00:07:10 2008 From: scott-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Scott Sullivan) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 20:07:10 -0400 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4841E82E.7060603@ss.org> Dibs, thanks. Tyler Aviss wrote: > Here's some various odds and ends if anyone is interested > > d) Various motherboard header to USB or firewire connector > i) A 566Mhz Celeron eMachine > -- Scott Sullivan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 13:36:16 2008 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 09:36:16 -0400 Subject: OT: AMD and Intel Core Overview and Tables Message-ID: <4842A5D0.4070209@utoronto.ca> Intel Core Overview: http://www.sotmar.net/Images/CPU_Intel_Big.gif and table: http://www.sotmar.net/Images/CPU_Table_Intel_Big.gif AMD Core Overview: http://www.sotmar.net/Images/CPU_AMD_Big.gif and table: http://www.sotmar.net/Images/CPU_Table_AMD_Big.gif Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 14:56:09 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 10:56:09 -0400 Subject: OT: PIII vs Celeron In-Reply-To: <48407C35.90201-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20080601145609.GI16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 06:14:13PM -0400, John Moniz wrote: > I'm putting together a linux machine for my son to fiddle with. I have a > P3 800MHz and a Celeron 1000 CPU that I can use. Any opinions on which > is the better CPU? I would actually think the P3 is. The celeron 1000 is probably based on the P4 design, which means clock for clock it is a lot slower than the P3, and also celerons had less cache in general, so I would think in all ways the celeron 1000 is below the P3 800. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 14:59:47 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 10:59:47 -0400 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <484182AD.3020605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0805310856i417de388u64ba944f406ee80c@mail.gmail.com> <484182AD.3020605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080601145947.GJ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 12:54:05PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: > >And a 14" IBM Monitor (CRT). Clean and working fairly well last time I > >checked. > > > > > > Does anyone still use those? ;-) No. :) I just got rid of 3 21" CRTs (all with various problems). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 15:02:37 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 11:02:37 -0400 Subject: OT: AMD and Intel Core Overview and Tables In-Reply-To: <4842A5D0.4070209-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4842A5D0.4070209@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20080601150237.GK16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:36:16AM -0400, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > Intel Core Overview: > http://www.sotmar.net/Images/CPU_Intel_Big.gif > > and table: http://www.sotmar.net/Images/CPU_Table_Intel_Big.gif > > AMD Core Overview: http://www.sotmar.net/Images/CPU_AMD_Big.gif > > and table: http://www.sotmar.net/Images/CPU_Table_AMD_Big.gif Wouldn't those be more interesting if they weren't 2 to 3 years out of date by now? You can't buy any of those chips anymore. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 15:25:11 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:25:11 -0400 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <20080601145947.GJ16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0805310856i417de388u64ba944f406ee80c@mail.gmail.com> <484182AD.3020605@rogers.com> <20080601145947.GJ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4842BF57.8040009@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 12:54:05PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >>> And a 14" IBM Monitor (CRT). Clean and working fairly well last time I >>> checked. >>> >>> >>> >> Does anyone still use those? ;-) >> > > No. :) I just got rid of 3 21" CRTs (all with various problems). > > I tossed my last one a few months back. I stopped using it 2 years ago. None at work either. However, about 3 years ago, I was involved in a project setting up computers at Queen's Park and CRT's were included. Some of the users had a *HUGE* 27" CRT in a small cubicle. There was hardly any room left on the desk for anything else! -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 15:40:00 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 11:40:00 -0400 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <4842BF57.8040009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0805310856i417de388u64ba944f406ee80c@mail.gmail.com> <484182AD.3020605@rogers.com> <20080601145947.GJ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4842BF57.8040009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080601154000.GL16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 11:25:11AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > I tossed my last one a few months back. I stopped using it 2 years ago. > None at work either. However, about 3 years ago, I was involved in a > project setting up computers at Queen's Park and CRT's were included. > Some of the users had a *HUGE* 27" CRT in a small cubicle. There was > hardly any room left on the desk for anything else! At work I use a pair of Viewsonic PF95f+ CRTs running 1600x1200. I won't change to an LCD unless they give me some that do at least 1600x1200, while so far most of the LCDs have been 1280x1024 or 1680x1050 or 1440x900 (I especially didn't want that). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 15:49:34 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:49:34 -0400 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <484182AD.3020605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0805310856i417de388u64ba944f406ee80c@mail.gmail.com> <484182AD.3020605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1212335374.25898.243.camel@leon> On Sat, 2008-05-31 at 12:54 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: > > And a 14" IBM Monitor (CRT). Clean and working fairly well last time I checked. > > Does anyone still use those? ;-) Aren't the screens in automatic teller machines CRTs? And smaller than 14", I think. I find LCDs irresistible but I think that artistic-types rely on CRTs for better "colour-matching or something". I also saw something recently that suggested CRTs were more durable in public kiosks or in environments where the plastic LCD could be damaged. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 16:28:53 2008 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:28:53 -0400 Subject: OT: AMD and Intel Core Overview and Tables In-Reply-To: <20080601150237.GK16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4842A5D0.4070209@utoronto.ca> <20080601150237.GK16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4842CE45.7010500@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:36:16AM -0400, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: >> Intel Core Overview: >> http://www.sotmar.net/Images/CPU_Intel_Big.gif >> >> and table: http://www.sotmar.net/Images/CPU_Table_Intel_Big.gif >> >> AMD Core Overview: http://www.sotmar.net/Images/CPU_AMD_Big.gif >> >> and table: http://www.sotmar.net/Images/CPU_Table_AMD_Big.gif > > Wouldn't those be more interesting if they weren't 2 to 3 years out of > date by now? You can't buy any of those chips anymore. There was a thread earlier about whether a 0.8 GHz PIII was better than a 1 GHz Celeron. If I'm not mistaken using the Intel Core Overview Chart the 1 Ghz Celeron is based on the Tualatin core whereas the 800 Mhz PIII is based on Coppermine. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 18:10:15 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:10:15 -0400 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <1212335374.25898.243.camel@leon> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0805310856i417de388u64ba944f406ee80c@mail.gmail.com> <484182AD.3020605@rogers.com> <1212335374.25898.243.camel@leon> Message-ID: <4842E607.5090307@utoronto.ca> Richard Weait wrote: > On Sat, 2008-05-31 at 12:54 -0400, James Knott wrote: >> Tyler Aviss wrote: >>> And a 14" IBM Monitor (CRT). Clean and working fairly well last time I checked. >> Does anyone still use those? ;-) > > Aren't the screens in automatic teller machines CRTs? And smaller than > 14", I think. I find LCDs irresistible but I think that artistic-types > rely on CRTs for better "colour-matching or something". I also saw > something recently that suggested CRTs were more durable in public > kiosks or in environments where the plastic LCD could be damaged. http://gizmodo.com/337529/asus-ls201-resists-crossbow-arrow-impact :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 18:32:17 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 14:32:17 -0400 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <1212335374.25898.243.camel@leon> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0805310856i417de388u64ba944f406ee80c@mail.gmail.com> <484182AD.3020605@rogers.com> <1212335374.25898.243.camel@leon> Message-ID: <20080601183217.GM16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 11:49:34AM -0400, Richard Weait wrote: > Aren't the screens in automatic teller machines CRTs? And smaller than > 14", I think. I find LCDs irresistible but I think that artistic-types > rely on CRTs for better "colour-matching or something". I also saw > something recently that suggested CRTs were more durable in public > kiosks or in environments where the plastic LCD could be damaged. Good LCDs have glass surfaces on top. They should be quite durable. Most LCDs don't bother since it adds a lot of weight. As for colour matching, I have no idea. I have seen some awful CRTs too, so it may be a matter of selecting the right one. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 18:41:14 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 14:41:14 -0400 Subject: OT: AMD and Intel Core Overview and Tables In-Reply-To: <4842CE45.7010500-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4842A5D0.4070209@utoronto.ca> <20080601150237.GK16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4842CE45.7010500@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20080601184114.GN16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 12:28:53PM -0400, Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > There was a thread earlier about whether a 0.8 GHz PIII was better than > a 1 GHz Celeron. > > If I'm not mistaken using the Intel Core Overview Chart the 1 Ghz > Celeron is based on the Tualatin core whereas the 800 Mhz PIII is based > on Coppermine. Perhaps. But the P3 may run a 133 FSB, the celeron would be 100 for sure. Major bandwidth difference there, on top of the reduced cache size. And it could be a coppermine celeron as well. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 19:06:14 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 15:06:14 -0400 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <20080601183217.GM16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0805310856i417de388u64ba944f406ee80c@mail.gmail.com> <484182AD.3020605@rogers.com> <1212335374.25898.243.camel@leon> <20080601183217.GM16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420806011206q6ef56836w830c993e0f8abdc8@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > As for colour matching, I have no idea. I have seen some awful CRTs > too, so it may be a matter of selecting the right one. I think LCDs generally have a hard time with blacks because the backlight is always on and the liquid crystals can't always block it 100%. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 19:11:55 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:11:55 -0400 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806011206q6ef56836w830c993e0f8abdc8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0805310856i417de388u64ba944f406ee80c@mail.gmail.com> <484182AD.3020605@rogers.com> <1212335374.25898.243.camel@leon> <20080601183217.GM16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806011206q6ef56836w830c993e0f8abdc8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4842F47B.8020907@rogers.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > >> As for colour matching, I have no idea. I have seen some awful CRTs >> too, so it may be a matter of selecting the right one. >> > > I think LCDs generally have a hard time with blacks because the > backlight is always on and the liquid crystals can't always block it > 100%. > > Ian > > CRTs also have a problem with blacks as the phosphors are not black. Many years ago, a black mask was developed to reduce this problem, but it doesn't eliminate it. Black is not a colour, but the absence of any colour. There are not a lot of things that are truly black. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 19:22:29 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:22:29 -0400 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <4842F47B.8020907-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0805310856i417de388u64ba944f406ee80c@mail.gmail.com> <484182AD.3020605@rogers.com> <1212335374.25898.243.camel@leon> <20080601183217.GM16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806011206q6ef56836w830c993e0f8abdc8@mail.gmail.com> <4842F47B.8020907@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1212348149.25898.255.camel@leon> On Sun, 2008-06-01 at 15:11 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Ian Petersen wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Lennart Sorensen > > wrote: > > > >> As for colour matching, I have no idea. I have seen some awful CRTs > >> too, so it may be a matter of selecting the right one. > >> > > > > I think LCDs generally have a hard time with blacks because the > > backlight is always on and the liquid crystals can't always block it > > 100%. > > > > Ian > > > > > CRTs also have a problem with blacks as the phosphors are not black. > Many years ago, a black mask was developed to reduce this problem, but > it doesn't eliminate it. Black is not a colour, but the absence of any > colour. There are not a lot of things that are truly black. Except the album Smell the Glove by Spinal Tap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlynf--lsxA [language] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 22:13:24 2008 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 18:13:24 -0400 Subject: OT: PIII vs Celeron In-Reply-To: <200805302126.51284.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> Duncan MacGregor wrote: > RAM will mean a lot. You probably won't be able to tell the difference between > the CPUs. > > As an old friend once told me: > "In a virtual operating system: > If you think you need a faster processor, add memory. > If you think you need a faster hard drive, add memory. > If you think you need a faster video card, add memory." I guess I'll go with the PIII and more RAM. Are 512MB SDRAM sticks still easy to get? The MB only has 2 DIMM slots, getting the highest available is probably a good idea. Thanks, John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 1 23:32:50 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 23:32:50 +0000 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <4841A1B1.9060707-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <4841A1B1.9060707@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0806011632r1a5ee552gfe3d2e6a64ebeae3@mail.gmail.com> FYI, The mini-ITX chassis and PSU aren't really made to go with each other. The chassis would need a DC-DC PSU, whilst the PSU I have is a small AC-DC actually for one of those small desktop machines. The chassis has outside leads for connecting to wires from - for example - a car. I have a DC-DC PSU, but I also have a spare mini-ITX that I'm trying to resurrect so I'm not getting rid of that quite yet. On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > I am very interested in the itx chassis and small PSU! > > Madi > > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> Here's some various odds and ends if anyone is interested >> >> a) epson touch LCD, EG9013F-NZ-1, 9543AM6. Needs to connect to an >> appropriate interface module/card (no VGA connector) >> b) Mini-ITX case suitable for carPC, etc. DC power connectors on back >> (somewhere around here there's an ITSP for having the power toggled by >> the ignition as well). >> c) Various IDE and SATA cables >> d) Various motherboard header to USB or firewire connectors >> e) 112W mini-PSU. Suitable for mini-ITX or lower-power boards, small >> projects >> f) USB Telbox (USB to telephone adaptor for VOIP/SIP) >> g) 3COM 10MBPS PCMCIA car d/w dongle >> h) An iButton and serial interface adaptor >> (http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/ibutton/ibuttons/) >> i) A 566Mhz Celeron eMachine >> >> All going for the stupendous price of $0.00, anyone interested? >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 00:52:37 2008 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 20:52:37 -0400 Subject: linuxizing a Toshiba Toughbook CF-M34 mark 7, some help needed Message-ID: <20080602005237.GZ26279@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> Hey Guys and Gals ! We just got a Panasonic Toughbook with a touchscreen. I'm grooming is as our next POS system it's a CF-M34mk7 model# CF-M34CGFFKM, Pentium M 1.0GHz ULV (Centrino) An Intel 855GM video chipset. The unit come with no documentation (although I think source might have a manual) and info on da web, about the specific model, and especially in regards to linux configuration, is aparse. If anyone has experience with this sort of thing, there are some things we haven't yet got working (Primarily touchscreen, audio, and haven't tested bluetooth nor wifi, and we could use a leetle help. the unnoficial wiki page is at http://toughbook.wikispaces.com/models+detailed but there's not much to learn from there. thanks -- Many people are desperately looking for some wise advice which will recommend that they do what they want to do. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 03:47:20 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 23:47:20 -0400 Subject: linuxizing a Toshiba Toughbook CF-M34 mark 7, some help needed In-Reply-To: <20080602005237.GZ26279-vuApnpmWkJ9FpmmLyGmH5+/MzcrNtJ/p@public.gmane.org> References: <20080602005237.GZ26279@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <48436D48.3020708@telly.org> David J Patrick wrote: > We just got a Panasonic Toughbook with a touchscreen. > I'm grooming is as our next POS system > it's a CF-M34mk7 model# CF-M34CGFFKM, Pentium M 1.0GHz ULV (Centrino) > I don't have experience myself, but I find that the Linux-on-Laptops site has plenty of collected experience. The one page it includes about the Toughbook, http://users.libero.it/hpstr/cfm34-linux.html , indicates you may be in for some ... fun. Once you can get it to boot Linux, it seems that most things except for the audio should be OK. And since it was written in 2003, even the audio may be workable by now. (info for that is available at http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Module-nm256 ) There's another page available if your Italian is usable: http://www.slacky.eu/wikislack/index.php?title=Panasonic_Toughbook_CF-M34 HTH. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 03:52:23 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 23:52:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <484182AD.3020605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0805310856i417de388u64ba944f406ee80c@mail.gmail.com> <484182AD.3020605@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | Tyler Aviss wrote: | > And a 14" IBM Monitor (CRT). Clean and working fairly well last time I | > checked. | Does anyone still use those? ;-) I keep CRTs for a couple of reasons: - They can support arbitrary resolutions (within range limitations). LCDs are really only good at their native resolution. Several of my computers won't support the resolutions that - some antique computers only have odd interfaces that LCDs don't support (eg. the Sun mono monitor interface, Atari ST, original IBM PC) All our TVs are still CRTs. All our program material is SD (Standard Definition as opposed to High Definition). There are hints that SD material often looks worse on HD LCD monitors. Analogue (SD) sources are less encumbered than digital sources so we're not anxious to "upgrade". (We cannot get over-the-air TV.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 06:02:58 2008 From: tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 08:02:58 +0200 Subject: linuxizing a Toshiba Toughbook CF-M34 mark 7, some help needed In-Reply-To: <20080602005237.GZ26279-vuApnpmWkJ9FpmmLyGmH5+/MzcrNtJ/p@public.gmane.org> (David J. Patrick's message of "Sun\, 1 Jun 2008 20\:52\:37 -0400") References: <20080602005237.GZ26279@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <87od6k1ii5.fsf@azurservers.com> David J Patrick a ?crit profondement: | Hey Guys and Gals ! | We just got a Panasonic Toughbook with a touchscreen. | I'm grooming is as our next POS system | it's a CF-M34mk7 model# CF-M34CGFFKM, Pentium M 1.0GHz ULV (Centrino) | An Intel 855GM video chipset. | The unit come with no documentation (although I think source might have a | manual) and info on da web, about the specific model, and especially in regards to | linux configuration, is aparse. | If anyone has experience with this sort of thing, there are some things we | haven't yet got working (Primarily touchscreen, audio, and haven't tested | bluetooth nor wifi, and we could use a leetle help. | the unnoficial wiki page is at | http://toughbook.wikispaces.com/models+detailed | but there's not much to learn from there. | thanks | -- | Many people are desperately looking for some wise advice which will | recommend that they do what they want to do. You might like to take a look here There's a link to the M34 wireless if you scroll down the page http://toughbook.wikispaces.com/wireless+options -- SlackRat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 13:20:51 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:20:51 -0400 Subject: linuxizing a Toshiba Toughbook CF-M34 mark 7, some help needed In-Reply-To: <87od6k1ii5.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080602005237.GZ26279@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> <87od6k1ii5.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420806020620y5385bd92m8b603873bde3aa02@mail.gmail.com> You might want to look at EmperorLinux. They sell Toughbooks with Linux pre-installed. I've had a bit of grief with them in the past, but it was a Dell I purchased, so maybe they should be the source of my anger. Anyway, EmperorLinux releases everything they do under the GPL. I think you can find them at emperorlinux.com. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 13:26:22 2008 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:26:22 -0400 Subject: web farm -newbie In-Reply-To: <2AB0B679-BA61-4ED9-80DA-E1E5B059C312-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> References: <402682.93450.qm@web65414.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <2AB0B679-BA61-4ED9-80DA-E1E5B059C312@monkeyinyoursoul.com> Message-ID: <4843F4FE.5040109@totaltravelmarketing.com> Myles Braithwaite wrote: > Take a look at lighttpd proxy > balancer http://trac.lighttpd.net/trac/wiki/Docs%3AModProxy > > An that postgresql thing that syncs multiple database across a network. > > --- > *Myles Braithwaite* > myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > > Please consider the trees before print this email. > > On 30-May-08, at 3:33 PM, Fernando Duran wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Very quickly, a "web farm" is a group of servers to >> support one web site, typically because you have a lot >> of traffic (load balancing), or you want to get rid of >> a single point of failure (reliability) or both. >> >> The topics you mention (Openmosix, OSCAR, MPI) are for >> parallel processing (running a program in multiple >> CPUs/memory, typically number crunching apps like >> scientific apps or image rendering); it's a very >> different topic. >> >> For a web site/app you probably want to look into load >> balancing, replication etc, not parallel processing. >> >> Fernando >> >> --- Jose wrote: >> >>> Hi List, >>> >>> I am looking to learn how to setup a web farm, I >>> have been reading >>> reviews about some books like: >>> >>> Linux Enterprise Cluster by Karl Kopper >>> >>> High Performance Linux Clusters with OSCAR, Rocks, >>> OpenMosix, and MPI >>> >>> Building Linux Clusters David H.M. Spector >>> >>> Linux High Performance Clusters [Import] (Paperback) >>> by Alex Vrenios (Author) >>> >>> I got a couple of computer I rescue from the job >>> dump and I would like >>> to build a mini cluster, but not sure where to >>> start, could you guys >>> advice a newbie on this matters? >>> >>> thanks in advance >>> >>> J >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: >>> http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text >>> below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: >>> http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> >> --------------------- >> Fernando Duran >> http://www.fduran.com >> >> >> __________________________________________________________________ >> Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark >> your favourite sites. Download it now at >> http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Hi Thanks to all who responded and took of their time to respond to my question. I certainly got some direction with your answers, Thanks a lot again J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 14:12:08 2008 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:12:08 -0400 Subject: linuxizing a Toshiba Toughbook CF-M34 mark 7, some help needed In-Reply-To: <20080602005237.GZ26279-vuApnpmWkJ9FpmmLyGmH5+/MzcrNtJ/p@public.gmane.org> References: <20080602005237.GZ26279@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <20080602101208.262884fc.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 20:52:37 -0400 David J Patrick wrote: > Hey Guys and Gals ! > We just got a Panasonic Toughbook with a touchscreen. > I'm grooming is as our next POS system > it's a CF-M34mk7 model# CF-M34CGFFKM, Pentium M 1.0GHz ULV (Centrino) > An Intel 855GM video chipset. > The unit come with no documentation (although I think source might have a > manual) and info on da web, about the specific model, and especially in regards to > linux configuration, is aparse. > If anyone has experience with this sort of thing, there are some things we > haven't yet got working (Primarily touchscreen, audio, and haven't tested > bluetooth nor wifi, and we could use a leetle help. > the unnoficial wiki page is at > http://toughbook.wikispaces.com/models+detailed > but there's not much to learn from there. > thanks David, I post notes on my Linux installs up on my website. This is the only convenenient way to share wealth like this. My experience is that when you install Linux on something new, one thing goes wrong and buggers everything up. The only thing you can do about this is to do the install and find out what the problem is. Either you will figure it out, or you will figure out more appropriate search terms on the web. Better yet, maybe there will not be any problems! Is this a brand new, bleeding edge machine? I just bought a wireless keyboard and mouse. There is a button on the bottom that is supposed to make it work, but it works already, and I have not hit the button yet. I think that some devices have better support under Linux than they do under Windows. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 16:09:44 2008 From: rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:09:44 -0400 Subject: Damian Conway to speak in Toronto Wednesday July 16th (evening); talk and venue details here Message-ID: <5bef4baf0806020909u2a9ada44u56dd080232c574a0@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, Save the date! The evening of Wed 16 July 2008, Damian Conway, Perl expert extraordinaire, Open Source luminary, and long-time friend of the Toronto Perl Mongers, will deliver -- free and to the public -- one of his signature tour-de-force completely insane talks that is 1/3 high-end IT, 1/3 showmanship and 1/3 peyote-fuelled hallucination. Here are the details: Talk: "Temporally Quaquaversal Virtual Nanomachine Programming in Multiple Topologically Connected Quantum-Relativistic Parallel Timespaces... Made Easy" This will be the world premiere of the talk. Date: Wednesday 16 July 2008 Time: 6:30pm - 9pm Location: Bahen Centre for Information Technology, University of Toronto 40 St. George Street (w. side of street, just north of College Ave. Room # BA 1160 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=+40+St.+George+Street,+Toronto&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=37.052328,95.009766&ie=UTF8&ll=43.659986,-79.396745&spn=0.004137,0.011598&z=17&iwloc=addr As I have done the past 4 times Damian has come to Toronto to give talks I will take up a collection. This is to help defray expenses and to provide Damian with an honorarium for the talk. Donations are completely voluntary. If you feel motivated and/or in the right place financially to make a donation please get in touch with me or visit the Paypal links at http://hew.ca/. The Toronto Perl Mongers and the other groups who have attended Damian's talks have always been incredibly generous in supporting Damian whenever he has visited in the past and both he and I thank everyone for all the support he has received over the years. Cheers, - Richard PS For those of you who don't know Damian, here is some background info on him. He's _not_ just a Perl hacker. If you're into IT in any way, shape or form prepare to have your mind blown... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damian_Conway http://damian.conway.org/About_us//Bio_formal.html http://www.googlism.com/index.htm?ism=damian+conway&type=1 -- I like the "... is my personal savior" one http://en.oreilly.com/oscon2008/public/schedule/speaker/4710 -- we are getting his OSCON 2008 keynote delivered here first! http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail880.html -- to hear one of his previous OSCON keynote talks (although this talk, as is the case with all his talks, is really enhanced by the slideshow that goes along with it) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 16:12:11 2008 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:12:11 -0400 Subject: local domain registrars Message-ID: <48441BDB.2090803@gmail.com> I will be setting up a few DNS domains. (.CA .COM) I was thinking of using easydns.com. Located on Dufferin St. Or Tucows. Any other DNS providers one would recommend? I would prefer not to use a US based or GoDaddy, since my servers are in town, and I would prefer my DNS Registrars/office/servers/ to be local. /teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 16:20:29 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:20:29 -0400 Subject: local domain registrars In-Reply-To: <48441BDB.2090803-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <48441BDB.2090803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48441DCD.8020709@rogers.com> teddy mills wrote: > > I will be setting up a few DNS domains. (.CA .COM) > > I was thinking of using easydns.com. > Located on Dufferin St. Or Tucows. > > Any other DNS providers one would recomm Check out: http://www.netfirms.com/ I register my .ca domains through them. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 16:25:56 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:25:56 -0400 Subject: local domain registrars In-Reply-To: <48441BDB.2090803-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <48441BDB.2090803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420806020925l196103a1h82f76855b8e9c850@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 12:12 PM, teddy mills wrote: > I was thinking of using easydns.com. > Located on Dufferin St. Or Tucows. I've had some positive experiences with easyDNS, and moved to them after a recommendation from a friend. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 16:48:39 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:48:39 -0400 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806011206q6ef56836w830c993e0f8abdc8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0805310856i417de388u64ba944f406ee80c@mail.gmail.com> <484182AD.3020605@rogers.com> <1212335374.25898.243.camel@leon> <20080601183217.GM16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806011206q6ef56836w830c993e0f8abdc8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080602164839.GO16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 03:06:14PM -0400, Ian Petersen wrote: > I think LCDs generally have a hard time with blacks because the > backlight is always on and the liquid crystals can't always block it > 100%. Depends on the design. There are new ones with LED backlights which can turn of the backlight on each pixel which should help that and reduce power consumption. Some day OLEDs will probably replace LCD if they ever get the sizes up in which case there will be no backlight which would be nice. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 16:53:41 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:53:41 -0400 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0805310856i417de388u64ba944f406ee80c@mail.gmail.com> <484182AD.3020605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080602165341.GP16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 11:52:23PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I keep CRTs for a couple of reasons: > > - They can support arbitrary resolutions (within range limitations). > LCDs are really only good at their native resolution. > Several of my computers won't support the resolutions that My 24" LCD supports lots of resolutions on the VGA input and has nice options for dealing with them. You can either stretch the display to the full screen size, which ruins the aspect ratio on many signals and does scaling. Doesn't look that great in my opinion. You can keep the aspect ratio and scale to fit the screen. Better but still doesn't look so good. Last option is 1:1 where each pixel stays one pixel and you simply get black borders on the display. It does mean 640x480 looks pretty small, but it's very crisp. As a result I have no need for a CRT anymore. Well I do, but very few CRTs handle what I actually need a CRT for, which is NTSC resolution and frequency RGB. NEC MultiSync II and CBM1084 handle that, and I am keeping those. SGI, Sun, Dec, etc all need special displays which I am also keeping. > - some antique computers only have odd interfaces that LCDs don't > support (eg. the Sun mono monitor interface, Atari ST, original > IBM PC) Most of which a VGA CRT wouldn't handle either, so still no reason to keep a VGA compatible CRT. > All our TVs are still CRTs. All our program material is SD (Standard > Definition as opposed to High Definition). There are hints that SD > material often looks worse on HD LCD monitors. Analogue (SD) sources > are less encumbered than digital sources so we're not anxious to > "upgrade". (We cannot get over-the-air TV.) Yeah I have a 27" CRT for a TV. Maybe someday I will get a 1080p LCD TV, but no hurry there. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 16:54:56 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:54:56 -0400 Subject: OT: PIII vs Celeron In-Reply-To: <48431F04.3070501-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 06:13:24PM -0400, Moniz Family wrote: > Duncan MacGregor wrote: > >RAM will mean a lot. You probably won't be able to tell the difference > >between the CPUs. > > > >As an old friend once told me: > >"In a virtual operating system: > >If you think you need a faster processor, add memory. > >If you think you need a faster hard drive, add memory. > >If you think you need a faster video card, add memory." > I guess I'll go with the PIII and more RAM. Are 512MB SDRAM sticks still > easy to get? The MB only has 2 DIMM slots, getting the highest available > is probably a good idea. What chipset does the board for the P3 have? It probably can't use 512MB sticks. It might not even support the majority of 256MB sticks. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 17:04:30 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:04:30 -0400 Subject: linuxizing a Toshiba Toughbook CF-M34 mark 7, some help needed In-Reply-To: <20080602005237.GZ26279-vuApnpmWkJ9FpmmLyGmH5+/MzcrNtJ/p@public.gmane.org> References: <20080602005237.GZ26279@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <20080602170430.GR16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 08:52:37PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Hey Guys and Gals ! > We just got a Panasonic Toughbook with a touchscreen. > I'm grooming is as our next POS system > it's a CF-M34mk7 model# CF-M34CGFFKM, Pentium M 1.0GHz ULV (Centrino) > An Intel 855GM video chipset. > The unit come with no documentation (although I think source might have a > manual) and info on da web, about the specific model, and especially in regards to > linux configuration, is aparse. > If anyone has experience with this sort of thing, there are some things we > haven't yet got working (Primarily touchscreen, audio, and haven't tested > bluetooth nor wifi, and we could use a leetle help. > the unnoficial wiki page is at > http://toughbook.wikispaces.com/models+detailed > but there's not much to learn from there. Well CPU, video, and chipset in general should probably not be a problem. The touch screen, well who knows. Is it serial? USB? Proprietary interface? I have written a touch screen driver a few years ago for a serial touchscreen without documentation. I connected the touch screen to the serial port on a linux box, connected another serial port on the linux box back to the interface in the machine with the touch screen, and wrote a small program in C that read from one port and wrote to the other and vice versa, and printed out in hex every byte that passed through, and then I played with the screen using the windows install on the system and tried to figure out the pattern in the byte stream. I eventually found out that the protocol consisted of 5 bytes, and once I aligned the printout to print 5 bytes per line, the pattern got clearer. Only the first byte had the high bit set, so that allowed resync to happen if needed. The remaining bits in the first byte indicated start of touch, end of touch, movement while touched and such. The other 4 bytes contained the position info. The high bit was always 0, and the remaining 7 bits contained the position in X and Y, two bytes each, so 14 bit position per axis. The values seemed to range from about 100 to about 4000 on this display. I then went and copied an existing touch screen driver in X with a somewhat similar protocol, and changed it to work with this particular protocol, along with adding a way to calibrate the left and right sides of the X axies, and the top and bottom of the Y axis. Worked quite well in the end. Probably took 2 or 3 days to do all of it. USB would be harder, since I don't know where to get a protocol sniffer for USB. Propriteray would involve figuring out how to even access the interface before figuring out the protocol. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 17:07:28 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:07:28 -0400 Subject: local domain registrars In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806020925l196103a1h82f76855b8e9c850-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <48441BDB.2090803@gmail.com> <7ac602420806020925l196103a1h82f76855b8e9c850@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080602170728.GA14697@watson-wilson.ca> On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 12:25:56PM -0400, Ian Petersen wrote: >I've had some positive experiences with easyDNS, and moved to them >after a recommendation from a friend. I've used easydns for years. I've never had any problems. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 23:28:00 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 19:28:00 -0400 Subject: linuxizing a Toshiba Toughbook CF-M34 mark 7, some help needed In-Reply-To: <20080602170430.GR16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080602005237.GZ26279@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> <20080602170430.GR16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <48448200.2080902@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 08:52:37PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: >> Hey Guys and Gals ! >> We just got a Panasonic Toughbook with a touchscreen. >> I'm grooming is as our next POS system >> it's a CF-M34mk7 model# CF-M34CGFFKM, Pentium M 1.0GHz ULV (Centrino) >> An Intel 855GM video chipset. >> The unit come with no documentation (although I think source might have a >> manual) and info on da web, about the specific model, and especially in regards to >> linux configuration, is aparse. >> If anyone has experience with this sort of thing, there are some things we >> haven't yet got working (Primarily touchscreen, audio, and haven't tested >> bluetooth nor wifi, and we could use a leetle help. >> the unnoficial wiki page is at >> http://toughbook.wikispaces.com/models+detailed >> but there's not much to learn from there. > > Well CPU, video, and chipset in general should probably not be a > problem. > > The touch screen, well who knows. Someone must, but I'd like to meet that person. > Is it serial? USB? Proprietary interface? No idea, it doesn't show up in lspci, lshw, or lsusb. > I have written a touch screen driver a few years ago for a serial > touchscreen without documentation. I connected the touch screen to the > serial port on a linux box, connected another serial port on the linux > box back to the interface in the machine with the touch screen, and > wrote a small program in C that read from one port and wrote to the > other and vice versa, and printed out in hex every byte that passed > through, and then I played with the screen using the windows install on > the system and tried to figure out the pattern in the byte stream. We've tried capturing output from pretty much all /dev/* devices, the touch pad works with /dev/psaux, /dev/input etc. etc. But there isn't a single bit from anything related to touching the screen. It worked in Windows though... > I eventually found out that the protocol consisted of 5 bytes, and once > I aligned the printout to print 5 bytes per line, the pattern got > clearer. > > Only the first byte had the high bit set, so that allowed resync to > happen if needed. The remaining bits in the first byte indicated start > of touch, end of touch, movement while touched and such. The other 4 > bytes contained the position info. The high bit was always 0, and the > remaining 7 bits contained the position in X and Y, two bytes each, so > 14 bit position per axis. The values seemed to range from about 100 to > about 4000 on this display. > > I then went and copied an existing touch screen driver in X with a > somewhat similar protocol, and changed it to work with this particular > protocol, along with adding a way to calibrate the left and right sides > of the X axies, and the top and bottom of the Y axis. Worked quite well > in the end. Probably took 2 or 3 days to do all of it. > > USB would be harder, since I don't know where to get a protocol sniffer > for USB. > > Propriteray would involve figuring out how to even access the interface > before figuring out the protocol. Sounds like it might be usb then. Dunno what else it could be. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From anahi_ar-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 23:49:46 2008 From: anahi_ar-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Anahi Avalos) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 16:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: What is the best option with Zimbra Message-ID: <197497.61330.qm@web45909.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks you all for your anwers. ?Len about your question: Someone told me that Zimbra is a good option, and I didn't do any research,?? I only liked? the? Ajax web client and Antispam Integrated. But If you have a better option, I 'll check. About the OS , Now?I only have? In the list?: Open SUSE,?Debian or Cen OS.??(And for the record:?The server with sendmail?is ?TAO 1) And thanks for all your reccomendations. Anah? ----- Original Message ---- From: Lennart Sorensen To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 10:29:45 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: What is the best option with Zimbra On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 05:46:53PM -0700, Anahi Avalos wrote: > I need to migrate? a sendmail (I didn't configure this and i dont have many documents about)? to zimbra slowly and first in demo version, and I want to know what is the best S.O. (installation, configuration, etc): opensuse, ubuntu server or cent os or any other. I understand not wanting to use sendmail so migration sounds reasonable. But whatever is zinbra?? Why not postfix (with postgrey) or something else well respected and which people can actually provide help for? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 2 23:54:54 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 19:54:54 -0400 Subject: What is the best option with Zimbra In-Reply-To: <20080529152945.GF16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <416274.64522.qm@web45908.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <20080529152945.GF16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4844884E.8040303@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 05:46:53PM -0700, Anahi Avalos wrote: >> I need to migrate? a sendmail (I didn't configure this and i dont have many documents about)? to zimbra slowly and first in demo version, and I want to know what is the best S.O. (installation, configuration, etc): opensuse, ubuntu server or cent os or any other. > > I understand not wanting to use sendmail so migration sounds reasonable. > But whatever is zinbra? Why not postfix (with postgrey) or something > else well respected and which people can actually provide help for? > I'll second postfix+postgrey+spamassassin. You can easily have that setup with virtual users in Dovecot and a database of your choosing, along with Postfixadmin to administer users and domains via a web front end. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 01:09:35 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 21:09:35 -0400 Subject: OBUNTU: new kernel; new failures Message-ID: <1212455375.18927.20.camel@aragorn> UBUNTU has just installed a new kernel. I have recently noted that I have been getting errors in /var/log/messages and /var/log/syslog about 20-40 seconds apart. Here is a sample of the messages: ?========8< SNIP 8<=============8< SNIP 8<====================== Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129183] ata4.01: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x2 frozen Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129209] ata4.01: cmd a0/00:00:00:00:00/00:00:00:00:00/b0 tag 0 Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129211] cdb 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129214] res 40/00:03:00:08:00/00:00:00:00:00/a0 Emask 0x4 (timeout) Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129219] ata4.01: status: { DRDY } Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129257] ata4: soft resetting link Jun 2 21:02:23 aragorn kernel: [185916.970328] ata4.00: configured for UDMA/33 Jun 2 21:02:23 aragorn kernel: [185917.149782] ata4.01: configured for PIO0 Jun 2 21:02:23 aragorn kernel: [185917.149817] ata4: EH complete ========8< SNIP 8<=============8< SNIP 8<====================== This gives me a creepy feeling that one of my hard drives are failing. Can anyone interpret these messages and tell me for sure? What is "ata4.0x", where x is an integer? Frankly, these errors may have existed before the install; it's just the first time I've noticed it. I am using kernel version "2.6.24-17-generic", freshly installed. Thanks for any help. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 01:55:48 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 21:55:48 -0400 Subject: Pretty please? Need LDAP/Windows integration help Message-ID: <4844A4A4.3010306@telly.org> Hi all. I'm in a tizzy trying to figure out how to solve this problem. A user has two mail servers now: 1) the Linux one that they've loved for years (postfix / courierIMAP / spamassassin / maia / squirrel / postgrey) that has been running the whole place reliably for years; 2) The WindowsServer2003 box that they've had to install because to service the push-mail functions of their Blackberry-toting staff (Exchange / BEX) -- it's a long story, but they had no choice. The Linux box will still receive all incoming mail, but stuff destined for the handful of blackberry users will be forwarded to the BEX box. That part is easy. The hard part (to me) is figuring out to do a single sign-on to both servers. Do we maintain the accounts on the Windows box and have the Linux system authenticate to that? Or is there a way for the Windows system to authenticate against OpenLDAP on the Linux box? We've been looking at all sorts of solutions, involving everything from Samba to Microsoft's Unix Tools for Windows. On the web there are plenty of docs on how to integrate LDAP with Postfix and Courier, and one on how to authenticate Windows boxen to Samba, but nothing that puts it all together. Any pointers or hints would really really be appreciated. This is driving me nuts. Just getting immersed into LDAP has been enough of a headache, let alone all this other stuff. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 02:06:52 2008 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 22:06:52 -0400 Subject: OT: PIII vs Celeron In-Reply-To: <20080602165456.GQ16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 06:13:24PM -0400, Moniz Family wrote: > >> Duncan MacGregor wrote: >> >>> RAM will mean a lot. You probably won't be able to tell the difference >>> between the CPUs. >>> >>> As an old friend once told me: >>> "In a virtual operating system: >>> If you think you need a faster processor, add memory. >>> If you think you need a faster hard drive, add memory. >>> If you think you need a faster video card, add memory." >>> >> I guess I'll go with the PIII and more RAM. Are 512MB SDRAM sticks still >> easy to get? The MB only has 2 DIMM slots, getting the highest available >> is probably a good idea. >> > > What chipset does the board for the P3 have? It probably can't use > 512MB sticks. It might not even support the majority of 256MB sticks. I found the board manual on the manufacturer's web site and it does support 512MB sticks. However, I think it's all a mute point now as I'm having no end of troubles with both CPU's and two boards. In summary, the only combination that seems to work (somewhat) only boots when it feels like it. About half the time, it won't even read the bios - just sits there like a dork. I power off and on, then it boots all the way. Last night I left it on all night. This morning, it would have been easier to wake up a drunken sailor - nothing I could do with the mouse or keyboard would get me back the system. It's now headed for the parts bin, and only because I feel charitable. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 02:07:52 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 22:07:52 -0400 Subject: Pretty please? Need LDAP/Windows integration help In-Reply-To: <4844A4A4.3010306-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4844A4A4.3010306@telly.org> Message-ID: <7ac602420806021907m487741dat5eb7ec903fdfb113@mail.gmail.com> You should go buy "Linux Networking Cookbook" by Carla Shroder, published by O'Reilly, ISBN 0-596-10248-8. It's a well-written book that I bought on the strength of a Slashdot book review. It includes several chapters about OpenLDAP, Windows-Linux integration, and single sign-on. It's written in a problem-solution-implementation style, so you can surf page headers looking for something that solves your particular problem and then follow the steps to implement the proffered solution. The author includes instructions for Debian and Fedora, but the steps are usually clear enough that you should be able to apply them to just about any distribution. To answer your question directly, the answer from the book is to put the accounts on the Windows machines and have Linux authenticate against it. There's a chapter or two that will teach you how to install OpenLDAP on the Linux boxes and configure PAM to use it to authenticate users against the Windows ActiveDirectory. There are also tidbits about how to make home directories on the fly so that you don't have to pre-configure users' accounts on the Linux machines before they can sign in. Ian -- Tired of pop-ups, security holes, and spyware? Try Firefox: http://www.getfirefox.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From indy-k5e8U2l/CWTzIImvGDD8mw at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 02:15:40 2008 From: indy-k5e8U2l/CWTzIImvGDD8mw at public.gmane.org (Indy Singh) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 22:15:40 -0400 Subject: Damian Conway to speak in Toronto Wednesday July 16th (evening); talk and venue details here References: <5bef4baf0806020909u2a9ada44u56dd080232c574a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <012a01c8c51f$bc1a5700$c901aa0a@roadhog> Hi Richard I have forwarded you failure notice message to the admin. On the other hand I did receive your message. Indy Singh IndigoSTAR Software -- www.indigostar.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Dice To: Toronto Perl Mongers ; KW Perl list ; buffalo-pm ; tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org ; torcamp-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw at public.gmane.org Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 12:09 PM Subject: [TLUG]: Damian Conway to speak in Toronto Wednesday July 16th (evening); talk and venue details here Hi everyone, Save the date! The evening of Wed 16 July 2008, Damian Conway, Perl expert extraordinaire, Open Source luminary, and long-time friend of the Toronto Perl Mongers, will deliver -- free and to the public -- one of his signature tour-de-force completely insane talks that is 1/3 high-end IT, 1/3 showmanship and 1/3 peyote-fuelled hallucination. Here are the details: Talk: "Temporally Quaquaversal Virtual Nanomachine Programming in Multiple Topologically Connected Quantum-Relativistic Parallel Timespaces... Made Easy" This will be the world premiere of the talk. Date: Wednesday 16 July 2008 Time: 6:30pm - 9pm Location: Bahen Centre for Information Technology, University of Toronto 40 St. George Street (w. side of street, just north of College Ave. Room # BA 1160 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=+40+St.+George+Street,+Toronto&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=37.052328,95.009766&ie=UTF8&ll=43.659986,-79.396745&spn=0.004137,0.011598&z=17&iwloc=addr As I have done the past 4 times Damian has come to Toronto to give talks I will take up a collection. This is to help defray expenses and to provide Damian with an honorarium for the talk. Donations are completely voluntary. If you feel motivated and/or in the right place financially to make a donation please get in touch with me or visit the Paypal links at http://hew.ca/. The Toronto Perl Mongers and the other groups who have attended Damian's talks have always been incredibly generous in supporting Damian whenever he has visited in the past and both he and I thank everyone for all the support he has received over the years. Cheers, - Richard PS For those of you who don't know Damian, here is some background info on him. He's _not_ just a Perl hacker. If you're into IT in any way, shape or form prepare to have your mind blown... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damian_Conway http://damian.conway.org/About_us//Bio_formal.html http://www.googlism.com/index.htm?ism=damian+conway&type=1 -- I like the "... is my personal savior" one http://en.oreilly.com/oscon2008/public/schedule/speaker/4710 -- we are getting his OSCON 2008 keynote delivered here first! http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail880.html -- to hear one of his previous OSCON keynote talks (although this talk, as is the case with all his talks, is really enhanced by the slideshow that goes along with it) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 14:33:28 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 10:33:28 -0400 Subject: linuxizing a Toshiba Toughbook CF-M34 mark 7, some help needed In-Reply-To: <48448200.2080902-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080602005237.GZ26279@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> <20080602170430.GR16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48448200.2080902@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20080603143328.GS16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 07:28:00PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Someone must, but I'd like to meet that person. Well there is the option of taking it apart to find the model/part number of the touch screen. > No idea, it doesn't show up in lspci, lshw, or lsusb. If not in usb, then probably serial or some proprietary port. > We've tried capturing output from pretty much all /dev/* devices, the > touch pad works with /dev/psaux, /dev/input etc. etc. But there isn't a > single bit from anything related to touching the screen. It worked in > Windows though... You would have to get the baud rate correct though, and in the case of the one I dealt with a few years ago, you had to initialize it with a magic sequence of bytes first (whatever they meant I have no idea, but sending them at startup made it work). > Sounds like it might be usb then. Dunno what else it could be. Then something must show up in lsusb. What does lsusb show? Doing a bit of searching seems to have found some information though. The touch screen is apparently made by a company named Gunze, and it is on /dev/ttyS3. A driver does exist for it, but it is for Xfree86, and does not compile or work with Xorg at this time. With recent kernels, some people claim the kernel is detecting it and providing info via /dev/input/mouse2, although upside down on the Y axis or something like that. If nothing else it seems there is at least existing source code to look at for how to write a new driver. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 14:40:39 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 10:40:39 -0400 Subject: OT: PIII vs Celeron In-Reply-To: <4844A73C.5010306-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 10:06:52PM -0400, John Moniz wrote: > I found the board manual on the manufacturer's web site and it does > support 512MB sticks. However, I think it's all a mute point now as I'm > having no end of troubles with both CPU's and two boards. In summary, > the only combination that seems to work (somewhat) only boots when it > feels like it. About half the time, it won't even read the bios - just > sits there like a dork. I power off and on, then it boots all the way. > Last night I left it on all night. This morning, it would have been > easier to wake up a drunken sailor - nothing I could do with the mouse > or keyboard would get me back the system. It's now headed for the parts > bin, and only because I feel charitable. Given the performance you can get in a cheap $400 machine new these days, it's getting hard to justify even looking at perfectly good old computers, never mind those that are getting flacky. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 14:43:28 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 10:43:28 -0400 Subject: OBUNTU: new kernel; new failures In-Reply-To: <1212455375.18927.20.camel@aragorn> References: <1212455375.18927.20.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <20080603144328.GU16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 09:09:35PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > UBUNTU has just installed a new kernel. I have recently noted that I > have been getting errors in /var/log/messages and /var/log/syslog about > 20-40 seconds apart. Here is a sample of the messages: > > ???========8< SNIP 8<=============8< SNIP 8<====================== > > Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129183] ata4.01: exception Emask > 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x2 frozen > Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129209] ata4.01: cmd > a0/00:00:00:00:00/00:00:00:00:00/b0 tag 0 > Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129211] cdb 00 00 00 00 > 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 > Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129214] res > 40/00:03:00:08:00/00:00:00:00:00/a0 Emask 0x4 (timeout) > Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129219] ata4.01: status: > { DRDY } > Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129257] ata4: soft resetting > link > Jun 2 21:02:23 aragorn kernel: [185916.970328] ata4.00: configured for > UDMA/33 > Jun 2 21:02:23 aragorn kernel: [185917.149782] ata4.01: configured for > PIO0 > Jun 2 21:02:23 aragorn kernel: [185917.149817] ata4: EH complete > > ========8< SNIP 8<=============8< SNIP 8<====================== > > This gives me a creepy feeling that one of my hard drives are failing. > Can anyone interpret these messages and tell me for sure? What is > "ata4.0x", where x is an integer? Frankly, these errors may have existed > before the install; it's just the first time I've noticed it. > > I am using kernel version "2.6.24-17-generic", freshly installed. 2.6.24 has some serious issues with some chipsets for disk access, so it is quite likely a kernel problem, and not hardware in this case. Going back to 2.6.22 or earlier seems fine for many people, and 2.6.25 also seems to fix most of it, although a few may have to wait until 2.6.26 to have it all in order again. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 14:48:47 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 10:48:47 -0400 Subject: What is the best option with Zimbra In-Reply-To: <197497.61330.qm-MhxhyKWn58LrNpU5RS+xBlZ8N9CAUha/QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <197497.61330.qm@web45909.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080603144847.GV16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 04:49:46PM -0700, Anahi Avalos wrote: > Thanks you all for your anwers. > ?Len about your question: Someone told me that Zimbra is a good option, and I didn't do any research,?? I only liked? the? Ajax web client and Antispam Integrated. But If you have a better option, I 'll check. About the OS , Now?I only have? In the list?: Open SUSE,?Debian or Cen OS.??(And for the record:?The server with sendmail?is ?TAO 1) > And thanks for all your reccomendations. Well postfix works quite well. It's simple to configure too and lots of people can help you with problems since it is so common. For accessing mail, that's not the mail transfer agents job, so pick a good imap/pop/whatever server for that. I do like courier-imap myself, but there is probably better ones too. A web mail interface would simply be something that uses the imap server and the smtp server. Remember part of what has made unix great is having programs that do one thing well, and then combining them in useful ways. An all in one email server will likely not be particularly great at any of the tasks it is supposed to handle (just look at exchange for example). The courier suite does allow some integration, although each part is capable of being used stand alone and with other servers too (hence why I use it as an imap server, but not as smtp). Spam filtering seems best done through greylisting (see postgrey) and something like bogofilter these days. Rule based like spamassassin is not very accurate and also very resource intensive. As for OS, well of course I would pick Debian. I just couldn't go back to RPM land. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 14:49:28 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 10:49:28 -0400 Subject: What is the best option with Zimbra In-Reply-To: <4844884E.8040303-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <416274.64522.qm@web45908.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <20080529152945.GF16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844884E.8040303@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20080603144928.GW16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 07:54:54PM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > I'll second postfix+postgrey+spamassassin. You can easily have that > setup with virtual users in Dovecot and a database of your choosing, > along with Postfixadmin to administer users and domains via a web front end. No, not spamassassin. Complete waste of resources for a mediocre result. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 13:19:57 2008 From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:19:57 +0100 Subject: local domain registrars In-Reply-To: <48441BDB.2090803-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <48441BDB.2090803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20080603141957.016658c8@pop.istop.com> At 12:12 2008-06-02 -0400, teddy mills wrote: > I will be setting up a few DNS domains. (.CA .COM) > > I was thinking of using easydns.com. > Located on Dufferin St. Or Tucows. I have used easydns.com for quite a few years. The service has been flawless. They deal politely with my questions, even when those qestions are misguided. Terry. > > Any other DNS providers one would recommend? > > I would prefer not to use a US based or GoDaddy, since my servers are in > town, > and I would prefer my DNS Registrars/office/servers/ to be local. > > > /teddy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 17:58:41 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 13:58:41 -0400 Subject: OBUNTU: new kernel; new failures In-Reply-To: <1212455375.18927.20.camel@aragorn> References: <1212455375.18927.20.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <3a97ef0806031058o71517cf8l4c718dacfa68ca3f@mail.gmail.com> SSBiZWxpZXZlIEkndmUgc2VlbiBzaW1pbGFyIG1lc3NhZ2VzIGJlZm9yZSBvbiBzb21lIG9mIG15 IERlYmlhbgpib3hlbi4gT25jZSBpdCB3YXMgZHVlIHRvIGEgbWVzc2VkLXVwIGRyaXZlciB3aGlj aCB3YXMgaW50ZXJtaXR0ZW50bHkKcmVzZXR0aW5nIHRoZSBkcml2ZSwgYW5kIHRoZSBvdGhlciB0 aGUgZHJpdmUgd2FzIHN0YXJ0aW5nIHRvIHJhbmRvbWx5CnNwaW4gZG93bi9kaXNjb25uZWN0IGFu ZCB0aGVuIGNvbWUgYmFjayB0byBsaWZlLgoKSWYgaXQncyB0aGUgbGF0dGVyLCBJJ2QgaW1hZ2lu ZSB5b3Ugd2lsbCBoZWFyIHNvbWV0aGluZyBmcm9tIHRoZSBkcml2ZQp0aG91Z2g6ICBwb3dlciBm bHV4aW5nLCBzcGluZG93bnMsIG9yIHBlcmhhcHMgYSByYXRoZXIgdW5wbGVhc2FudAp0aWNraW5n IHNvdW5kIGV2ZXJ5IG5vdyBhbmQgdGhlbi4KCgoKT24gTW9uLCBKdW4gMiwgMjAwOCBhdCA5OjA5 IFBNLCBQYXVsIEtpbmcgPHNjaWd1eUB2ZXgubmV0PiB3cm90ZToKPiBVQlVOVFUgaGFzIGp1c3Qg aW5zdGFsbGVkIGEgbmV3IGtlcm5lbC4gSSBoYXZlIHJlY2VudGx5IG5vdGVkIHRoYXQgSQo+IGhh dmUgYmVlbiBnZXR0aW5nIGVycm9ycyBpbiAvdmFyL2xvZy9tZXNzYWdlcyBhbmQgL3Zhci9sb2cv c3lzbG9nIGFib3V0Cj4gMjAtNDAgc2Vjb25kcyBhcGFydC4gSGVyZSBpcyBhIHNhbXBsZSBvZiB0 aGUgbWVzc2FnZXM6Cj4KPiDvu789PT09PT09PTg8IFNOSVAgODw9PT09PT09PT09PT09ODwgU05J UCA4PD09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KPgo+IEp1biAgMiAyMTowMTo1MSBhcmFnb3JuIGtl cm5lbDogWzE4NTg4NS4xMjkxODNdIGF0YTQuMDE6IGV4Y2VwdGlvbiBFbWFzawo+IDB4MCBTQWN0 IDB4MCBTRXJyIDB4MCBhY3Rpb24gMHgyIGZyb3plbgo+IEp1biAgMiAyMTowMTo1MSBhcmFnb3Ju IGtlcm5lbDogWzE4NTg4NS4xMjkyMDldIGF0YTQuMDE6IGNtZAo+IGEwLzAwOjAwOjAwOjAwOjAw LzAwOjAwOjAwOjAwOjAwL2IwIHRhZyAwCj4gSnVuICAyIDIxOjAxOjUxIGFyYWdvcm4ga2VybmVs OiBbMTg1ODg1LjEyOTIxMV0gICAgICAgICAgY2RiIDAwIDAwIDAwIDAwCj4gMDAgMDAgMDAgMDAg IDAwIDAwIDAwIDAwIDAwIDAwIDAwIDAwCj4gSnVuICAyIDIxOjAxOjUxIGFyYWdvcm4ga2VybmVs OiBbMTg1ODg1LjEyOTIxNF0gICAgICAgICAgcmVzCj4gNDAvMDA6MDM6MDA6MDg6MDAvMDA6MDA6 MDA6MDA6MDAvYTAgRW1hc2sgMHg0ICh0aW1lb3V0KQo+IEp1biAgMiAyMTowMTo1MSBhcmFnb3Ju IGtlcm5lbDogWzE4NTg4NS4xMjkyMTldIGF0YTQuMDE6IHN0YXR1czoKPiB7IERSRFkgfQo+IEp1 biAgMiAyMTowMTo1MSBhcmFnb3JuIGtlcm5lbDogWzE4NTg4NS4xMjkyNTddIGF0YTQ6IHNvZnQg cmVzZXR0aW5nCj4gbGluawo+IEp1biAgMiAyMTowMjoyMyBhcmFnb3JuIGtlcm5lbDogWzE4NTkx Ni45NzAzMjhdIGF0YTQuMDA6IGNvbmZpZ3VyZWQgZm9yCj4gVURNQS8zMwo+IEp1biAgMiAyMTow MjoyMyBhcmFnb3JuIGtlcm5lbDogWzE4NTkxNy4xNDk3ODJdIGF0YTQuMDE6IGNvbmZpZ3VyZWQg Zm9yCj4gUElPMAo+IEp1biAgMiAyMTowMjoyMyBhcmFnb3JuIGtlcm5lbDogWzE4NTkxNy4xNDk4 MTddIGF0YTQ6IEVIIGNvbXBsZXRlCj4KPiA9PT09PT09PTg8IFNOSVAgODw9PT09PT09PT09PT09 ODwgU05JUCA4PD09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KPgo+IFRoaXMgZ2l2ZXMgbWUgYSBjcmVl cHkgZmVlbGluZyB0aGF0IG9uZSBvZiBteSBoYXJkIGRyaXZlcyBhcmUgZmFpbGluZy4KPiBDYW4g YW55b25lIGludGVycHJldCB0aGVzZSBtZXNzYWdlcyBhbmQgdGVsbCBtZSBmb3Igc3VyZT8gV2hh dCBpcwo+ICJhdGE0LjB4Iiwgd2hlcmUgeCBpcyBhbiBpbnRlZ2VyPyBGcmFua2x5LCB0aGVzZSBl cnJvcnMgbWF5IGhhdmUgZXhpc3RlZAo+IGJlZm9yZSB0aGUgaW5zdGFsbDsgaXQncyBqdXN0IHRo ZSBmaXJzdCB0aW1lIEkndmUgbm90aWNlZCBpdC4KPgo+IEkgYW0gdXNpbmcga2VybmVsIHZlcnNp b24gIjIuNi4yNC0xNy1nZW5lcmljIiwgZnJlc2hseSBpbnN0YWxsZWQuCj4KPiBUaGFua3MgZm9y IGFueSBoZWxwLgo+Cj4gUGF1bCBLaW5nCj4KPgo+IC0tCj4gVGhlIFRvcm9udG8gTGludXggVXNl cnMgR3JvdXAuICAgICAgTWVldGluZ3M6IGh0dHA6Ly9ndGFsdWcub3JnLwo+IFRMVUcgcmVxdWVz dHM6IExpbnV4IHRvcGljcywgTm8gSFRNTCwgd3JhcCB0ZXh0IGJlbG93IDgwIGNvbHVtbnMKPiBI b3cgdG8gVU5TVUJTQ1JJQkU6IGh0dHA6Ly9ndGFsdWcub3JnL3dpa2kvTWFpbGluZ19saXN0cwo+ CgoKCi0tIApUeWxlciBBdmlzcwpTeXN0ZW1zIFN1cHBvcnQKTFBJQy9MUElDLTIKKDY0NykgMzAy LTA5NDIK -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 18:02:40 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:02:40 -0400 Subject: OBUNTU: new kernel; new failures In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0806031058o71517cf8l4c718dacfa68ca3f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1212455375.18927.20.camel@aragorn> <3a97ef0806031058o71517cf8l4c718dacfa68ca3f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48458740.5050200@dinamis.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > I believe I've seen similar messages before on some of my Debian > boxen. Once it was due to a messed-up driver which was intermittently > resetting the drive, and the other the drive was starting to randomly > spin down/disconnect and then come back to life. > > If it's the latter, I'd imagine you will hear something from the drive > though: power fluxing, spindowns, or perhaps a rather unpleasant > ticking sound every now and then. I've been hearing random spindowns recently! Ubuntu 7.10, kernel 2.6.22-14-generic -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 20:36:29 2008 From: plpeter2006-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 20:36:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [OT] Two Computers, One Set of Speakers References: <483CD281.8090502@rogers.com> <20080529152839.GE16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <484048D8.5070307@rogers.com> <20080530201628.GH16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart Sorensen writes: > Simplest and cheapest solution. :) > > Why buy a mixer when you have one in the computer already. The OP never assumed that both computers would have to be on or that one of them would have a free line in input. My solution can share anything that has a 'headphone' type output and amplified speakers as a load. MP3 player, iPod, fm radio, comms receiver, computer ... and any or all can be on or off at any time, as well as hot plugged (with some care wrt. grounds). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 21:49:19 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 17:49:19 -0400 Subject: [OT] Two Computers, One Set of Speakers In-Reply-To: References: <483CD281.8090502@rogers.com> <20080529152839.GE16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <484048D8.5070307@rogers.com> <20080530201628.GH16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080603214919.GX16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 03, 2008 at 08:36:29PM +0000, Peter wrote: > The OP never assumed that both computers would have to be on or that one of them > would have a free line in input. My solution can share anything that has a > 'headphone' type output and amplified speakers as a load. MP3 player, iPod, fm > radio, comms receiver, computer ... and any or all can be on or off at any time, > as well as hot plugged (with some care wrt. grounds). Computers can be not on? :) Still a $3 cable is cheaper than getting a mixer (much as they can be very nice). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 3 22:03:42 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 18:03:42 -0400 Subject: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience Message-ID: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> I have a need -- for pay -- to get the help of someone who has experience with a Pix and VPNs. I have some awareness of Linux and other firewall systems, but this one is just too complex for words. I need to set up a VPN on this thing -- my cursory views have indicated that the system won't allow VPNs on a system already talking PPPoE to the system's ISP. As I said, the needs are modest and there will be some budget available depending on how elaborate this job is. Plan B is to dump the damned thing and get a simpler firewall that can do this. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 02:46:35 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 22:46:35 -0400 Subject: OBUNTU: new kernel; new failures In-Reply-To: <20080603144328.GU16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1212455375.18927.20.camel@aragorn> <20080603144328.GU16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1212547595.6079.1.camel@aragorn> Thanks. I have moved to 2.6.22 and there hasn't been any messages in over an hour of that kind. Paul On Tue, 2008-06-03 at 10:43 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 09:09:35PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > > UBUNTU has just installed a new kernel. I have recently noted that I > > have been getting errors in /var/log/messages and /var/log/syslog about > > 20-40 seconds apart. Here is a sample of the messages: > > > > ???========8< SNIP 8<=============8< SNIP 8<====================== > > > > Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129183] ata4.01: exception Emask > > 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x2 frozen > > Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129209] ata4.01: cmd > > a0/00:00:00:00:00/00:00:00:00:00/b0 tag 0 > > Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129211] cdb 00 00 00 00 > > 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 > > Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129214] res > > 40/00:03:00:08:00/00:00:00:00:00/a0 Emask 0x4 (timeout) > > Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129219] ata4.01: status: > > { DRDY } > > Jun 2 21:01:51 aragorn kernel: [185885.129257] ata4: soft resetting > > link > > Jun 2 21:02:23 aragorn kernel: [185916.970328] ata4.00: configured for > > UDMA/33 > > Jun 2 21:02:23 aragorn kernel: [185917.149782] ata4.01: configured for > > PIO0 > > Jun 2 21:02:23 aragorn kernel: [185917.149817] ata4: EH complete > > > > ========8< SNIP 8<=============8< SNIP 8<====================== > > > > This gives me a creepy feeling that one of my hard drives are failing. > > Can anyone interpret these messages and tell me for sure? What is > > "ata4.0x", where x is an integer? Frankly, these errors may have existed > > before the install; it's just the first time I've noticed it. > > > > I am using kernel version "2.6.24-17-generic", freshly installed. > > 2.6.24 has some serious issues with some chipsets for disk access, so it > is quite likely a kernel problem, and not hardware in this case. > > Going back to 2.6.22 or earlier seems fine for many people, and 2.6.25 > also seems to fix most of it, although a few may have to wait until > 2.6.26 to have it all in order again. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > � -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 13:38:42 2008 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:38:42 -0400 Subject: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re:OT: PIII vs Celeron] In-Reply-To: <20080603144039.GT16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <48469AE2.6090508@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > Given the performance you can get in a cheap $400 machine new these > days, it's getting hard to justify even looking at perfectly good old > computers, never mind those that are getting flacky. You're right Lennart. By coincidence, I now have the opportunity through my employer to buy some Compaq Presarios and HP Pavilions. I have never bought a brand name PC before, but the prices are not bad. The biggest choice I have to make is whether to go for an Intel Pentium Dual Core or an AMD 64x2 Dual Core. The AMD's available seem to be higher speeds (eg. Intel dual core 1.6 & 1.8GHz vs AMD dual core 2.3, 2.6 & 2.7 GHz). Naturally, the price goes up the faster the CPU. I haven't seen much discussion lately on AMD vs Intel dual cores. Are they about equivalent? I think one more concern is whether I should expect problems with the SATA drives (they all come with large SATA drives). John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 13:55:45 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 09:55:45 -0400 Subject: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience In-Reply-To: <4845BFBE.1020509-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 03, 2008 at 06:03:42PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I have a need -- for pay -- to get the help of someone who has > experience with a Pix and VPNs. > > I have some awareness of Linux and other firewall systems, but this one > is just too complex for words. > I need to set up a VPN on this thing -- my cursory views have indicated > that the system won't allow VPNs on a system already talking PPPoE to > the system's ISP. > > As I said, the needs are modest and there will be some budget available > depending on how elaborate this job is. > > Plan B is to dump the damned thing and get a simpler firewall that can > do this. Or a more complex one, like say any random linux box. Linux can do many things in terms of routing and firewalling that a PIX can not. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 14:52:50 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 10:52:50 -0400 Subject: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience In-Reply-To: <20080604135545.GY16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Or a more complex one, like say any random linux box. > Adding complexity is not an option. > Linux can do many things in terms of routing and firewalling that a PIX can not. > May be, but the needs are simple: Keep almost everything out. Allow unlimited outgoing connections. Maintain a PPPoE connection to Bell. Allow two VPN connections from remote home offices. Allow one port to be forwarded to a PC running specialized software. This should not require a complex solution. no filters, no caching, etc. If it did, IPCop would already be there. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 15:02:42 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:02:42 -0400 Subject: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re:OT: PIII vs Celeron] In-Reply-To: <48469AE2.6090508-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48469AE2.6090508@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20080604150242.GZ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 09:38:42AM -0400, John Moniz wrote: > You're right Lennart. By coincidence, I now have the opportunity through > my employer to buy some Compaq Presarios and HP Pavilions. I have never > bought a brand name PC before, but the prices are not bad. I would highly recommend NOT getting one of those. Probably among the crappiest PCs you can get, ranking up there with eMachines, Packard Bell, MDG, etc. > The biggest choice I have to make is whether to go for an Intel Pentium > Dual Core or an AMD 64x2 Dual Core. The AMD's available seem to be > higher speeds (eg. Intel dual core 1.6 & 1.8GHz vs AMD dual core 2.3, > 2.6 & 2.7 GHz). Naturally, the price goes up the faster the CPU. An intel Core 2 is a very nice CPU, the pentium dual core is a bit weird in that some of them are pentium4 based, and others are core 2's with less L2 cache. The core 2 based ones are pretty good, the P4 based ones should be avoided. The best bang for the buck these days is probably a Core 2 Q6600. I use one in my mythtv box. They can be had for just over $200, and run quad 2.4GHz, which is just a silly amount of processing power for the money. Building a complete machine with one should be posible for $400 to $600 (not including monitor of course). > I haven't seen much discussion lately on AMD vs Intel dual cores. Are > they about equivalent? AMD is currently having issues keeping up due to the very well designed Core 2. > I think one more concern is whether I should expect problems with the > SATA drives (they all come with large SATA drives). I have only used SATA drives in new machines for the last 4 years. I would not consider IDE. So far I have had very little trouble with WD drives, except the 120GB drives which seemed to fail frequently (and were discontinued long ago). Seagate has had a lot of trouble making correct SATA firmware and have had issues working with a lot of controllers. I just avoid them. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 15:14:08 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:14:08 -0400 Subject: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience In-Reply-To: <4846AC42.6010300-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080604151408.GA16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 10:52:50AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > May be, but the needs are simple: > Keep almost everything out. > Allow unlimited outgoing connections. > Maintain a PPPoE connection to Bell. > Allow two VPN connections from remote home offices. > Allow one port to be forwarded to a PC running specialized software. Linux can do complex things, or you can do simple things. Linux doesn't have artificial limitations the way a PIX often does. It doesn't tell you you can't do something, like IPsec on PPPoE. > This should not require a complex solution. no filters, no caching, etc. > If it did, IPCop would already be there. Whatever is IPCop? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 15:14:29 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:14:29 -0400 Subject: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience In-Reply-To: <4846AC42.6010300-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> Message-ID: <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> Pardon the OT response.. I do this with FreeBSD and pf. It doesn?t take very long to setup, but you need to be running either FreeBSD or OpenBSD. I also have altq running so that my p2p traffic does not affect my Voip(SIP/RTP) traffic. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Evan > Leibovitch > Sent: June 4, 2008 10:53 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Or a more complex one, like say any random linux box. > > > Adding complexity is not an option. > > > Linux can do many things in terms of routing and firewalling that a > PIX can not. > > > May be, but the needs are simple: > Keep almost everything out. > Allow unlimited outgoing connections. > Maintain a PPPoE connection to Bell. > Allow two VPN connections from remote home offices. > Allow one port to be forwarded to a PC running specialized software. > > This should not require a complex solution. no filters, no caching, > etc. > If it did, IPCop would already be there. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 16:16:25 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:16:25 -0400 Subject: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re:OT: PIII vs Celeron] In-Reply-To: <20080604150242.GZ16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48469AE2.6090508@sympatico.ca> <20080604150242.GZ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <03ae01c8c65e$5790ec00$06b2c400$@com> The AMD multi core architecture is more suited to memory intensive applications because of known bottlenecks in Intel's memory controller. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 16:25:32 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:25:32 -0400 Subject: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re:OT: PIII vs Celeron] In-Reply-To: <03ae01c8c65e$5790ec00$06b2c400$@com> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48469AE2.6090508@sympatico.ca> <20080604150242.GZ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <03ae01c8c65e$5790ec00$06b2c400$@com> Message-ID: <20080604162532.GB16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 12:16:25PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > The AMD multi core architecture is more suited to memory intensive > applications because of known bottlenecks in Intel's memory controller. I would say that is wrong. AMD's architecture is more suitable for multi socket systems than intel's. Each socket in an AMD includes a memory controller. Intel has only one memory controller for the whole system for now. A quad core single socket AMD versus a quad core single socket intel doesn't make any real difference in most cases. Performance wise the intel is quite a bit faster, even though for very highly memory intensive work, the AMD might have an advantage, as long as it involves lots of data moving between cores, rather than to and from system memory. There is the difference that the AMD quad core has full core to core communication through the crossbar, while the intel has communications within each pair of cores, but communication between the pairs goes over the FSB or at least has to go through some cache. I really hope AMD can mange to soon have a CPU that outperforms the Core 2 architecture. It's sad to see them being trampled by intel again after the great work on the K7 and K8 architectures, while intel fooled around with their stupid netburst. Given intel is coming with their new interconnect sometime soon, AMD better do something before intel takes away their last few advantages. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 16:34:23 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 16:34:23 +0000 Subject: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re:OT: PIII vs Celeron] In-Reply-To: <48469AE2.6090508-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48469AE2.6090508@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0806040934u6b9801ebs1cf823a55ad7b489@mail.gmail.com> What are you using them for? One thing to check out also is what the motherboards are. I'd probably go with the AMD systems, but I've seen plenty of older AMD boards that were no good (crappy onboard peripherals, blown/puffy caps, etc). I don't buy a lot of Intel stuff myself, but I have seen more el-cheapo AMD boards than Intel for some reason. Any specs on what else is in 'em? On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 1:38 PM, John Moniz wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> >> >> Given the performance you can get in a cheap $400 machine new these >> days, it's getting hard to justify even looking at perfectly good old >> computers, never mind those that are getting flacky. > > You're right Lennart. By coincidence, I now have the opportunity through my > employer to buy some Compaq Presarios and HP Pavilions. I have never bought > a brand name PC before, but the prices are not bad. > > The biggest choice I have to make is whether to go for an Intel Pentium Dual > Core or an AMD 64x2 Dual Core. The AMD's available seem to be higher speeds > (eg. Intel dual core 1.6 & 1.8GHz vs AMD dual core 2.3, 2.6 & 2.7 GHz). > Naturally, the price goes up the faster the CPU. > > I haven't seen much discussion lately on AMD vs Intel dual cores. Are they > about equivalent? > > I think one more concern is whether I should expect problems with the SATA > drives (they all come with large SATA drives). > > John. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 17:25:30 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:25:30 -0400 Subject: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re:OT: PIII vs Celeron] In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0806040934u6b9801ebs1cf823a55ad7b489-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48469AE2.6090508@sympatico.ca> <3a97ef0806040934u6b9801ebs1cf823a55ad7b489@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080604172530.GC16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 04:34:23PM +0000, Tyler Aviss wrote: > What are you using them for? > One thing to check out also is what the motherboards are. I'd probably > go with the AMD systems, but I've seen plenty of older AMD boards that > were no good (crappy onboard peripherals, blown/puffy caps, etc). I > don't buy a lot of Intel stuff myself, but I have seen more el-cheapo > AMD boards than Intel for some reason. I have seen plenty of cheap crappy boards. Fortunately I have never bought any of them myself. Pretty much if you get an intel chipset board from Asus, it shold be good and work with any intel CPU (that the chipset supports). If you go with an nvidia chipset it should also be quite good, although more expensive and usually aimed at the SLI crowd. For AMD, pretty much nvidia is the only chipset worth looking at, although I have used some via boards with success too, all from Asus of course (I haven't personally bought any non asus boards for about 15 years now, and I have no intension of changing that). My mythtv upgrade a few months ago involved a P5K board with a Q6600 CPU and 2x1GB OCZ PC6400 low latency ram. I am very happy with it, and it runs linux great. If I had not specifically wanted to use an nvidia video card with it, I would have gone for the P5K-V with onboard intel video which works quite well too with linux. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 17:42:53 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 13:42:53 -0400 Subject: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re:OT: PIII vs Celeron] In-Reply-To: <20080604162532.GB16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48469AE2.6090508@sympatico.ca> <20080604150242.GZ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <03ae01c8c65e$5790ec00$06b2c400$@com> <20080604162532.GB16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <03df01c8c66a$6c1493a0$443dbae0$@com> This article provides some good reading on the subject. http://www.digit-life.com/articles3/mainboard/ddr2-yorkfield-phenom-page1.ht ml > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart > Sorensen > Sent: June 4, 2008 12:26 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re: [TLUG]: OT: PIII vs Celeron] > > On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 12:16:25PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > The AMD multi core architecture is more suited to memory intensive > > applications because of known bottlenecks in Intel's memory > controller. > > I would say that is wrong. > > AMD's architecture is more suitable for multi socket systems than > intel's. Each socket in an AMD includes a memory controller. Intel > has > only one memory controller for the whole system for now. > > A quad core single socket AMD versus a quad core single socket intel > doesn't make any real difference in most cases. Performance wise the > intel is quite a bit faster, even though for very highly memory > intensive work, the AMD might have an advantage, as long as it involves > lots of data moving between cores, rather than to and from system > memory. > > There is the difference that the AMD quad core has full core to core > communication through the crossbar, while the intel has communications > within each pair of cores, but communication between the pairs goes > over > the FSB or at least has to go through some cache. > > I really hope AMD can mange to soon have a CPU that outperforms the > Core > 2 architecture. It's sad to see them being trampled by intel again > after the great work on the K7 and K8 architectures, while intel fooled > around with their stupid netburst. Given intel is coming with their > new > interconnect sometime soon, AMD better do something before intel takes > away their last few advantages. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 17:43:34 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:43:34 -0400 Subject: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re:OT: PIII vs Celeron] In-Reply-To: <20080604172530.GC16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48469AE2.6090508@sympatico.ca> <3a97ef0806040934u6b9801ebs1cf823a55ad7b489@mail.gmail.com> <20080604172530.GC16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4846D446.8010809@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Pretty much if you get an intel chipset board from Asus, it shold be > good and work with any intel CPU (that the chipset supports). If you go > with an nvidia chipset it should also be quite good, although more > expensive and usually aimed at the SLI crowd. > > For AMD, pretty much nvidia is the only chipset worth looking at, > although I have used some via boards with success too, all from Asus of > course (I haven't personally bought any non asus boards for about 15 > years now, and I have no intension of changing that). > I know a few shops that had bought a lot of Asus. Many have switched, at least partially, to Intel-branded motherboards. There was a feeling (at least pre-EeePC) that Intel was more Linux-friendly than Asus, and that Intel could be reasonably trusted to not sell crap. At least you always know whose chipsets are being used. ;-) http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboard/index.htm - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 17:51:52 2008 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:51:52 -0400 Subject: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re:OT: PIII vs Celeron] In-Reply-To: <20080604172530.GC16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48407C35.90201@sympatico.ca> <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48469AE2.6090508@sympatico.ca> <3a97ef0806040934u6b9801ebs1cf823a55ad7b489@mail.gmail.com> <20080604172530.GC16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4846D638.2060002@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 04:34:23PM +0000, Tyler Aviss wrote: > >> What are you using them for? >> One thing to check out also is what the motherboards are. I'd probably >> go with the AMD systems, but I've seen plenty of older AMD boards that >> were no good (crappy onboard peripherals, blown/puffy caps, etc). I >> don't buy a lot of Intel stuff myself, but I have seen more el-cheapo >> AMD boards than Intel for some reason. >> > > I have seen plenty of cheap crappy boards. Fortunately I have never > bought any of them myself. > > Pretty much if you get an intel chipset board from Asus, it shold be > good and work with any intel CPU (that the chipset supports). If you go > with an nvidia chipset it should also be quite good, although more > expensive and usually aimed at the SLI crowd. > > For AMD, pretty much nvidia is the only chipset worth looking at, > although I have used some via boards with success too, all from Asus of > course (I haven't personally bought any non asus boards for about 15 > years now, and I have no intension of changing that). > > My mythtv upgrade a few months ago involved a P5K board with a Q6600 CPU > and 2x1GB OCZ PC6400 low latency ram. I am very happy with it, and it > runs linux great. If I had not specifically wanted to use an nvidia > video card with it, I would have gone for the P5K-V with onboard intel > video which works quite well too with linux. One system has an ASUS M2N61-AR board with an NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE chipset. Another has an ECS 945GCT-HM board with Intel 945GC chipset. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 18:19:37 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:19:37 -0400 Subject: Pretty please? Need LDAP/Windows integration help In-Reply-To: <4844A4A4.3010306-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4844A4A4.3010306@telly.org> Message-ID: <03e901c8c66f$8dd95840$a98c08c0$@com> Your limitations here is that Exchange cannot use anything other than AD. So there are several ways to skin the proverbial cat. They are placed in order of increased complexity (very subjective) 1. Web Password set: Put up a simple web page that runs on the UNIX system that can allow the end user to change their password on UNIX as well as Windows (LDAP) This is this simplest solution. Sample code to change password on Windows via LDAP is here. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/269190/en-us You will need to maintain separate accounts on Windows and UNIX. 2. SFU Password Synch: SFU 3.5 has a built in feature that allows you to synch Windows passwords with password files. Its not to difficult to setup http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb463208.aspx but you will need to maintain separate accounts on Windows and UNIX. 3. NIS: Turn Active Directory into an NIS server using the SFU 3.5 (its free). This will allow you to configure the UNIX machines for NIS authentication directly onto Windows. You can now create user accounts on Windows and set the user's home directory, shell, group, etc (no pun) on AD. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/interopmigration/bb380242.aspx. You will have to be tolerable of NIS's security flaws to implement this. (I demoed this at the TLUG meeting at IBM) 3. LDAP for Authz/Authn. Install nss_ldap (or pam_ldap) on Linux and configure it to authenticate to Active Directory. You will need the admin tools from the SFU to set the RFC 2307 attributes via the Active Directory UI. This is considerably more secure than the previous option but a bit more complex as you will need to have the nss_ldap and pam_ldap libraries installed on Linux. Note here you are using LDAP as an authentication protocol so many security guys don?t like this. 4. Use Kerberos for authn, LDAP for authz. The most complex but very secure, and very cool solution but a PITA to get to work. http://blog.scottlowe.org/2007/01/15/linux-ad-integration-version-4/ 5. The Metadirectory Way: Use a product like ILM (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/idm/ilm.mspx) DirXML (http://www.novell.com/products/identitymanager/). It will work but this is like using a bulldozer to make a sand castle in your situation. HTH > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Evan > Leibovitch > Sent: June 2, 2008 9:56 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Pretty please? Need LDAP/Windows integration help > > Hi all. > > I'm in a tizzy trying to figure out how to solve this problem. > > A user has two mail servers now: > > 1) the Linux one that they've loved for years (postfix / courierIMAP / > spamassassin / maia / squirrel / postgrey) that has been running the > whole place reliably for years; > > 2) The WindowsServer2003 box that they've had to install because to > service the push-mail functions of their Blackberry-toting staff > (Exchange / BEX) -- it's a long story, but they had no choice. > > The Linux box will still receive all incoming mail, but stuff destined > for the handful of blackberry users will be forwarded to the BEX box. > That part is easy. The hard part (to me) is figuring out to do a single > sign-on to both servers. > > Do we maintain the accounts on the Windows box and have the Linux > system > authenticate to that? Or is there a way for the Windows system to > authenticate against OpenLDAP on the Linux box? We've been looking at > all sorts of solutions, involving everything from Samba to Microsoft's > Unix Tools for Windows. > > On the web there are plenty of docs on how to integrate LDAP with > Postfix and Courier, and one on how to authenticate Windows boxen to > Samba, but nothing that puts it all together. > > Any pointers or hints would really really be appreciated. This is > driving me nuts. Just getting immersed into LDAP has been enough of a > headache, let alone all this other stuff. > > - Evan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 18:37:59 2008 From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 19:37:59 +0100 Subject: Bletchley Park museum Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20080604193759.019ae148@pop.istop.com> Greetings, all. Bruce Schneier [1] has drawn my attention to the Bletchley Park museum [2] and the financial difficulties [3,4] which threaten its survival. How about passing the hat at Linux in the Park in August? Does anybody here have a more imaginitive suggestion? Terry, rent-a-geek and database-bithead [1] [2] [3] [4] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 19:26:42 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 15:26:42 -0400 Subject: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re:OT: PIII vs Celeron] In-Reply-To: <4846D446.8010809-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48469AE2.6090508@sympatico.ca> <3a97ef0806040934u6b9801ebs1cf823a55ad7b489@mail.gmail.com> <20080604172530.GC16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846D446.8010809@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080604192642.GD16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 01:43:34PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I know a few shops that had bought a lot of Asus. Many have switched, at > least partially, to Intel-branded motherboards. There was a feeling (at > least pre-EeePC) that Intel was more Linux-friendly than Asus, and that > Intel could be reasonably trusted to not sell crap. At least you always > know whose chipsets are being used. ;-) > > http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboard/index.htm Intel has been horrible lately at making proper BIOS code. THey have a number of boards where they after over a year of people complaining, they still incorrectly configure the MTRR. Other board makers using the intel reference code took less than 24 hours to fix it when notified by users. I have dealt with a few intel boards in the past, and they have probably been the worst and most unreliable boards I have ever dealt with. They were crap. I happened to read a review of some motherboards in a magazine a couple of days ago, and the high end intel board got the lowest score. Its layout was awful (each PCIe video slot would cover 2 SATA ports when used, so you could potentially loose 4 out of 6 SATA ports if you installed two video cards). Asus and Gigabyte both got much higher scores and much praise (even though they cost more). Intel makes quite good chipsets and usually quite good CPUs, but they can't layout a motherboard to save their lives, nor write a proper BIOS. Asus may not officially have been much of a linux supporter, but they at least fixed BIOS and board bugs when told about them. Intel doesn't. I have run linux on Asus boards for 15 years now, and still haven't had a problem. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 19:27:51 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 15:27:51 -0400 Subject: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re:OT: PIII vs Celeron] In-Reply-To: <4846D638.2060002-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48469AE2.6090508@sympatico.ca> <3a97ef0806040934u6b9801ebs1cf823a55ad7b489@mail.gmail.com> <20080604172530.GC16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846D638.2060002@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20080604192750.GE16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 01:51:52PM -0400, John Moniz wrote: > One system has an ASUS M2N61-AR board with an NVIDIA GeForce 6150SE > chipset. Another has an ECS 945GCT-HM board with Intel 945GC chipset. I don't trust ECS yet. Some of the boards they made in the past were awful. They seem to have gotten better though, but I am still willing to pay twice as much for an asus to avoid any hassles in the future. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 22:55:41 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 18:55:41 -0400 Subject: RHEL 5 Enterprise Client Install Issue... Message-ID: I am attempting to support someone doing a remote install. Issue is during the install the machine hangs while attempting to install GRUB. What I know at present is that the machine in 3-4 years old and was used as a MS-Windows CAD station (i.e.: fairly powerful box by the standards of 3-4 years ago). Not sure of other hardware specs.. Suggestions I should be offering this person? Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 4 23:06:02 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 19:06:02 -0400 Subject: RHEL 5 Enterprise Client Install Issue... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32f6a8880806041606u4c1c127di65eea515844e0402@mail.gmail.com> Hi Colin, I know i have a 1.4 ghz machine from at least 5-6 years ago that runs linux fine, so the hardware may not be a problem. I've had experience where the grub manager gets confused with the drives, is it possible that grub is having issues finding the proper drive? Is it possible that the Hard Drive is corrupted or foo-bared? Maybe they can try using Lilo? Don't know what luck they'd have with that, is he trying to install grub on the MBR or partition as well? These are some of the things I'd be thinking about. The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 5 01:53:09 2008 From: teddymills-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (teddy mills) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 21:53:09 -0400 Subject: Linux powers the NYSE Message-ID: <48474705.9010308@gmail.com> http://customers.press.redhat.com/2008/05/12/nyse/ http://www.linuxnewstoday.org/linux-news-may-2008-archives/1001-may-14-2008-linux-news.shtml http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/linux/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=207800195 I was amazed to hear Linux powers the NYSE. I cannot think of a more mission critical system than the NYSE. The worldwide economy depends on NYSE. Another FYI for the Linux naysayers :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 5 02:30:11 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 22:30:11 -0400 Subject: Linux powers the NYSE In-Reply-To: <48474705.9010308-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <48474705.9010308@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48474FB3.5040007@rogers.com> teddy mills wrote: > > http://customers.press.redhat.com/2008/05/12/nyse/ > http://www.linuxnewstoday.org/linux-news-may-2008-archives/1001-may-14-2008-linux-news.shtml > > http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/linux/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=207800195 > > > I was amazed to hear Linux powers the NYSE. > I cannot think of a more mission critical system than the NYSE. > The worldwide economy depends on NYSE. > Another FYI for the Linux naysayers :) > FWIW, I was at 2 customers this week and both are running systems on Linux. At one, it's their Mitel VoIP phone system. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 5 06:15:32 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 02:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re:OT: PIII vs Celeron] In-Reply-To: <20080604192642.GD16163-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48409E35.9010101@alteeve.com> <200805302126.51284.dbmacg@look.ca> <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48469AE2.6090508@sympatico.ca> <3a97ef0806040934u6b9801ebs1cf823a55ad7b489@mail.gmail.com> <20080604172530.GC16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846D446.8010809@telly.org> <20080604192642.GD16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Intel has been horrible lately at making proper BIOS code. THey have a | number of boards where they after over a year of people complaining, | they still incorrectly configure the MTRR. Other board makers using the | intel reference code took less than 24 hours to fix it when notified by | users. Is this issue the one addressed in this thread? http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/6/1/231 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 5 16:04:16 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 12:04:16 -0400 Subject: AMD vs Intel [Was:Re:OT: PIII vs Celeron] In-Reply-To: References: <48431F04.3070501@sympatico.ca> <20080602165456.GQ16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4844A73C.5010306@sympatico.ca> <20080603144039.GT16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <48469AE2.6090508@sympatico.ca> <3a97ef0806040934u6b9801ebs1cf823a55ad7b489@mail.gmail.com> <20080604172530.GC16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846D446.8010809@telly.org> <20080604192642.GD16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080605160416.GA31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 05, 2008 at 02:15:32AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | Intel has been horrible lately at making proper BIOS code. THey have a > | number of boards where they after over a year of people complaining, > | they still incorrectly configure the MTRR. Other board makers using the > | intel reference code took less than 24 hours to fix it when notified by > | users. > > Is this issue the one addressed in this thread? > http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/6/1/231 That looks like the one. Other non intel boards (gigabyte had some for example) were affected too. It was working, then a bios update screwed it up (and vista x64 is affected just as badly). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 6 12:10:54 2008 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:10:54 -0400 Subject: java swing/netbeans expertise ? Message-ID: <20080606121054.GF26279@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> Hi team ! I'm beginning some early work on migrating our POS (point of Sale) system from l-anePOS (a perlTK app) to OpenbravoPOS (java/swing) BUT the app was written specifically for 1024*768. Does anyone have the expertise to write a patch that would alter the layout in order to accomodate 800*600 screens ? It's not purely a matter of shrinking, but either tabbed interface or pop-up windos of some elements. Surely some geneii on the list have netbean enough to pull this off. anybody ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 6 21:57:21 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 17:57:21 -0400 Subject: MythTV Frontend Hardware Message-ID: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I've lately been attempting to research hardware that would be suitable for a Myth Frontend machine. I'm having a hell of a time with it, as it turns out. My requirements are: - Must playback HD video - Must have gigabit ethernet - Must run either fanless or very silently - Must have DVI output - Really want it to be under $400 I'm actually considering buying a used Mac Mini, with the Core Duo 1.66 GHz processor -- it's a couple years old, and can be had for under $500 on eBay. The Everex gPC Mini that just came out also appears to have the right hardware, but at $500 US is too much money. My understanding is that one should be able to save big bucks building it themselves. I just can't find the right components, esp. the motherboard. Any help or recommendations would be welcome! Cheers, Aaron. -- Aaron Vegh, Principal Innoveghtive Inc. P: (647) 477-2690 C: (905) 924-1220 www.innoveghtive.com www.website-in-a-day.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 6 21:57:49 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:57:49 -0400 Subject: Acer blames Microsoft for Linux move - news - www.pcretailmag.com Message-ID: <4849B2DD.4030301@rogers.com> http://www.pcretailmag.com/news/29982/Acer-blames-Microsoft-for-Linux-move -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 6 22:06:11 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 18:06:11 -0400 Subject: Sourceforge 2008 Community Choice Awards; Canadian / Local Projects Message-ID: <99a6c38f0806061506if5dea6i4f950f90ecc85821@mail.gmail.com> Hi, all Looks like the 2008 Community Choice Awards race has begun. The following links are projects that I know to be Canadian... Please feel free to add more links (PLEASE) and/or vote! Disclaimer: I "run" one of these projects (Atomic OS). Rather than ask for your support in this vote, I want to get this thread started to try and capture/list as many CANADIAN SourceForge projects as possible. Of course you're free to vote (or not) for whichever project you wish. ;-) -- Mizu-Bu; Rapid Development Architecture -- Summary: [WIP!] Mizu-Bu is a 'Rapid Development Architecture' which provides a platform to build entire programs on. It uses an internal webserver, SQL server, logging, i18n, skinning and multi-user support. You can download Mizu-Bu RDA and just "get to work" Vote: https://sourceforge.net/awards/cca/?group_id=171504 -- Atomic OS -- Summary: Atomic OS is a responsive Web 2.0 operating environment & development platform. Based on AJAX techniques, it emulates/provides standard operating system features including a command-line shell, interpreter, filesystem, database access and GUI services. Vote: https://sourceforge.net/awards/cca/?group_id=172188 -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 6 22:27:42 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 18:27:42 -0400 Subject: MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080606222742.GB31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jun 06, 2008 at 05:57:21PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > I've lately been attempting to research hardware that would be > suitable for a Myth Frontend machine. I'm having a hell of a time with > it, as it turns out. My requirements are: > > - Must playback HD video I think the makes you require hardware assisted video decoding, which pretty much means nvidia video. > - Must have gigabit ethernet Should be easy. > - Must run either fanless or very silently Could be tricky. > - Must have DVI output Often not the case on anything small and cheap. > - Really want it to be under $400 Probably makes it impossible. > I'm actually considering buying a used Mac Mini, with the Core Duo > 1.66 GHz processor -- it's a couple years old, and can be had for > under $500 on eBay. The Everex gPC Mini that just came out also > appears to have the right hardware, but at $500 US is too much money. What do those use for video? > My understanding is that one should be able to save big bucks building > it themselves. I just can't find the right components, esp. the > motherboard. Any help or recommendations would be welcome! My current mythtv box would probably cost around $1200 to build, but it is a front and backend in one, with 1.2TB of disk space dedicated to mythtv, with a few hundred GB for other stuff too and way too much CPU power. With a good case you barely ever hear it. A board like the Asus P5N-EM HDMI might interest you though. VGA+DVI/HDMI ports with nvidia 7100 chipset, so the linux drivers should support video decoding acceleration. Throw in a low power celeron or one of the newer more power efficient core 2 duo's and you might have something that works. That board goes for about $75. A celeron 420 which is supposed to be 35W would make it very power efficient and not need much of a fan. A power supply with a 120mm fan should be able to keep everything cool with minimal noise. After all the smaller the fan, the larger the noise. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 00:27:16 2008 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:27:16 -0400 Subject: MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4849D5E4.9040702@totaltravelmarketing.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi all, > I've lately been attempting to research hardware that would be > suitable for a Myth Frontend machine. I'm having a hell of a time with > it, as it turns out. My requirements are: > > - Must playback HD video > - Must have gigabit ethernet > - Must run either fanless or very silently > - Must have DVI output > - Really want it to be under $400 > > I'm actually considering buying a used Mac Mini, with the Core Duo > 1.66 GHz processor -- it's a couple years old, and can be had for > under $500 on eBay. The Everex gPC Mini that just came out also > appears to have the right hardware, but at $500 US is too much money. > > My understanding is that one should be able to save big bucks building > it themselves. I just can't find the right components, esp. the > motherboard. Any help or recommendations would be welcome! > > Cheers, > Aaron. > HI My box, is pretty basic, 1 80gb (don't record too much lately), 1 HP celeron 800ghz, 512 ram, running mythubuntu, only expensive part is my Hauppauge 350 which comes with decoder integrated and tv output, no more than $400. tigerdirect.ca has more powerful machines for less than this with Nvidia cards loaded on them, with output for tv, thake a look at them (And no, I don't work for them, I actually stopped shopping at their retail shops, their customer service is plain horrible). J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 12:20:26 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 08:20:26 -0400 Subject: MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: <20080606222742.GB31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> <20080606222742.GB31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b20806070520x44562308p6c000bbf2c6df97c@mail.gmail.com> Hey Len, > >> I'm actually considering buying a used Mac Mini, with the Core Duo >> 1.66 GHz processor -- it's a couple years old, and can be had for >> under $500 on eBay. The Everex gPC Mini that just came out also >> appears to have the right hardware, but at $500 US is too much money. > > What do those use for video? the Mac mini has on-board Intel GMA950 video, with a DVI-out. Not sure what the gPC is using, but it's running Linux so I'm guessing it ISN'T an ATI... > My current mythtv box would probably cost around $1200 to build, but it > is a front and backend in one, with 1.2TB of disk space dedicated to > mythtv, with a few hundred GB for other stuff too and way too much CPU > power. With a good case you barely ever hear it. I have a FE/BE already; there should be a way to build an inexpensive FE-only machine! But I think we're part-way there, thanks to this: > > A board like the Asus P5N-EM HDMI might interest you though. Indeed! That does interest me. How the heck do you find stuff like this? Getting the correct specs into some kind of motherboard selector? I couldn't find anything that worked for me. This looks like a solid start. Cheers! Aaron. -- Aaron Vegh, Principal Innoveghtive Inc. P: (647) 477-2690 C: (905) 924-1220 www.innoveghtive.com www.website-in-a-day.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 12:35:47 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 15:35:47 +0300 Subject: Changing MAC address - Broadcom 4400 NIC card Message-ID: Hi pals, I have a situation where the ISP uses MAC address as part of authentication. This means that only one PC can ever use this particular modem. So I have two options: 1] Call the ISP and ask them to swap the MAC address. 2] Change the MAC address of the second host to the MAC address of the first host. I would like to attempt the 2rd option first. I. am using Redhat EL 5 on one of the host and have edited /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 to replace the old MAC with host 1 MAC address. However on restarting the interface, the following message appears Device eth0 has a MAC address XX:XX:....., instead of configured address XX:XX:..... Ignoring I suspect the kernel is still checking the chipset MAC address before bring up the interface. Are there tools on RHEL5 that can change the MAC address of the ethernet NIC? Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 13:32:34 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 16:32:34 +0300 Subject: Software for real estate industry Message-ID: Hi there, Would there be someone here who have worked with a product specifically targeted to real estate industry that he/she would recommend to a friend? I don't mind the licensing, both open source or proprietary would be fine, as long as it does the job well Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 15:38:56 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 11:38:56 -0400 Subject: MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20806070520x44562308p6c000bbf2c6df97c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> <20080606222742.GB31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4386c5b20806070520x44562308p6c000bbf2c6df97c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080607153856.GC31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 07, 2008 at 08:20:26AM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Indeed! That does interest me. How the heck do you find stuff like > this? Getting the correct specs into some kind of motherboard > selector? I couldn't find anything that worked for me. Go to asus web site, pick nvidia chipset based board with onboard video, which means a 6xxx or 7xxx chipset, rather than 5xx, 6xx or 7xx. Then find which one has DVI, and well that one was it. I guess it helps to know the nvidia chipsets already when doing that. I didn't even need to use google (which by the way always seems to return what I want when I ask it.) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 15:42:46 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 11:42:46 -0400 Subject: Changing MAC address - Broadcom 4400 NIC card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080607154246.GD31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 07, 2008 at 03:35:47PM +0300, William Muriithi wrote: > I have a situation where the ISP uses MAC address as part of > authentication. This means that only one PC can ever use this > particular modem. So I have two options: > > 1] Call the ISP and ask them to swap the MAC address. How often are you making these changes? It does seem like the best solution, although it is a pretty stupid way for an ISp to operate. > 2] Change the MAC address of the second host to the MAC address of the > first host. > > I would like to attempt the 2rd option first. I. am using Redhat EL 5 > on one of the host and have edited > /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 to replace the old MAC with > host 1 MAC address. However on restarting the interface, the following > message appears > > Device eth0 has a MAC address XX:XX:....., instead of configured > address XX:XX:..... Ignoring > > I suspect the kernel is still checking the chipset MAC address before > bring up the interface. Are there tools on RHEL5 that can change the > MAC address of the ethernet NIC? Well you can change the MAC address with ifconfig on most cards, but the driver may switch it back on reconfiguration if it wants to. Changing it permanently (generally a BAD idea) would require rewriting the eeprom on the card, which certainly is possible on some cards, but not usually. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 15:48:55 2008 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 11:48:55 -0400 Subject: Changing MAC address - Broadcom 4400 NIC card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <484AADE7.2030903@utoronto.ca> William Muriithi wrote: > Hi pals, > > I have a situation where the ISP uses MAC address as part of > authentication. This means that only one PC can ever use this > particular modem. So I have two options: > > 1] Call the ISP and ask them to swap the MAC address. > 2] Change the MAC address of the second host to the MAC address of the > first host. You could use a router. Ivan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 16:54:03 2008 From: simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simone Richard) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 12:54:03 -0400 Subject: Software for real estate industry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1bb290806070954s23b1ab3dteef5a4e8d74b274@mail.gmail.com> I haven't but I did come across this blog specializing in real estate tech. If you don't know it, there might be some useful info there for you. http://www.mytechopinion.com/ On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 9:32 AM, William Muriithi wrote: > Hi there, > > Would there be someone here who have worked with a product > specifically targeted to real estate industry that he/she would > recommend to a friend? I don't mind the licensing, both open source or > proprietary would be fine, as long as it does the job well > > Regards, > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 17:50:44 2008 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 13:50:44 -0400 Subject: Software for real estate industry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200806071350.44893.glayng@sympatico.ca> Yes, and it depends on how much "real estate" we're talking about. (Until I decided to set up my own small business, I was a property accounting manager.) The most common used for small to medium sized firms would be Yardi. It's pretty decent, aside from being so Microsoft-wedded. They are going to an internet/intranet client, with Internet Exploder interface. I think they need a browser that uses ActiveX on the on-line version. Another one I've used before is Timberline. It's got a decent reputation as property accounting software, but I've not used it in some years now. AccPac has a Property Accounting module, from what I'm reading on the web. Don't know if it works in Linux, but AccPac does have a Linux version. On Saturday 07 June 2008 09:32, William Muriithi wrote: > Hi there, > > Would there be someone here who have worked with a product > specifically targeted to real estate industry that he/she would > recommend to a friend? I don't mind the licensing, both open source or > proprietary would be fine, as long as it does the job well > > Regards, > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 19:55:00 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 15:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Aaron Vegh | I've lately been attempting to research hardware that would be | suitable for a Myth Frontend machine. I'm having a hell of a time with | it, as it turns out. My requirements are: I have an AppleTV which I intend to use as a Myth frontend, but I haven't had the time to do the required hacking. There is a MythTV frontend port but it hasn't been rebuilt for the current Apple system software on the AppleTV. Actually, the problem is with an application needed to actually run it. To develop for a hacked ApplTV, assuming that you want to run on top of the Apple software, pretty much requires you to compile on a Mac. I do have it hacked in a variety of ways. For example, I can ssh in. Some have run Linux on it instead. | - Must playback HD video Yes. | - Must have gigabit ethernet No. 100megabit wired; 802.11g wireless. | - Must run either fanless or very silently Quiet. A bit hot. | - Must have DVI output Component out and HDMI. Since HDMI is a superset of DVI, that ought to be good enough. | - Really want it to be under $400 I got mine for $200 from SiG. I think that they are not an authorized dealer. They don't currently sell them. Apple sells refurbs for not much more. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 20:09:08 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 16:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Acer blames Microsoft for Linux move - news - www.pcretailmag.com In-Reply-To: <4849B2DD.4030301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4849B2DD.4030301@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | http://www.pcretailmag.com/news/29982/Acer-blames-Microsoft-for-Linux-move Interesting. More meat is on vunet (linked from the above article). Acer could start by supporting Linux on their boxes even if shipped with MS Windows. In a judicious way: at least some of their Atheros wireless cards are done in a way that confuses stock Linux drivers. They could fix their BIOSes to support Linux suspend etc. I've not heard that Linux can make a battery last longer than MS Windows. Last I heard, Linux was trying to catch up (a lot of the work coming from Intel). I'm surprised that they claim MS Windows costs 50GBP per unit. Perhaps that is after some post-Microsoft markups (which would only be reasonable, but it isn't stated). Their claim that Linux starts up in 15 seconds suggests that they are not using any PC distro that I've got. That's perhaps what my Nokia N800 takes. Blaming Microsoft seems odd. Saying that MS Windows doesn't suit all their needs would be more correct. Perhaps this is posturing to get a better deal from Microsoft. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 20:26:08 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 16:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Changing MAC address - Broadcom 4400 NIC card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi | 1] Call the ISP and ask them to swap the MAC address. Best. | 2] Change the MAC address of the second host to the MAC address of the | first host. Should be possible. In this kind of application, it is often called "cloning" the MAC address. | I would like to attempt the 2rd option first. I. am using Redhat EL 5 | on one of the host and have edited | /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 to replace the old MAC with | host 1 MAC address. However on restarting the interface, the following | message appears | | Device eth0 has a MAC address XX:XX:....., instead of configured | address XX:XX:..... Ignoring | | I suspect the kernel is still checking the chipset MAC address before | bring up the interface. Are there tools on RHEL5 that can change the | MAC address of the ethernet NIC? I'm not sure of the following. I've not done it and I've not tested. HWADDR is supposed to be the real/original/power-on MAC address. RHEL uses this so that the ethernet interface assignments are not affected by the vargueries of PCI bus enumeration. Each config file identifies what card it applies to by that MAC address (HWADDR in the config file). If you want to change the MAC address, I think that you need to set MACADDR in ifcfg-eth0. See how this variable is used in various scripts in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ For example: /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup-eth:103: ip link set dev ${DEVICE} address ${MACADDR} -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 21:19:32 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 17:19:32 -0400 Subject: MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sorry for top posting; on an iPhone! So you're using an AppleTV? I'd really like to know if the ATV can work with HD content: could you stream and playback at least 720p video? I'd assumed not so well, which is why I was looking at the mini instead... Thoughts? Cheers, Aaron Aaron Vegh, Principal Innoveghtive Inc. Office 647 477 2690 Cell 905 924 1220 On 7-Jun-08, at 3:55 PM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" wrote: > | From: Aaron Vegh > > | I've lately been attempting to research hardware that would be > | suitable for a Myth Frontend machine. I'm having a hell of a time > with > | it, as it turns out. My requirements are: > > I have an AppleTV which I intend to use as a Myth frontend, but I > haven't had the time to do the required hacking. > > There is a MythTV frontend port but it hasn't been rebuilt for the > current Apple system software on the AppleTV. Actually, the problem > is with an application needed to actually run it. > > To develop for a hacked ApplTV, assuming that you want to run on top > of the Apple software, pretty much requires you to compile on a Mac. > > I do have it hacked in a variety of ways. For example, I can ssh in. > > Some have run Linux on it instead. > > | - Must playback HD video > > Yes. > > | - Must have gigabit ethernet > > No. 100megabit wired; 802.11g wireless. > > | - Must run either fanless or very silently > > Quiet. A bit hot. > > | - Must have DVI output > > Component out and HDMI. Since HDMI is a superset of DVI, that ought > to be good enough. > > | - Really want it to be under $400 > > I got mine for $200 from SiG. I think that they are not an authorized > dealer. They don't currently sell them. > > Apple sells refurbs for not much more. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 21:35:40 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 17:35:40 -0400 Subject: MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080607213540.GE31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 07, 2008 at 05:19:32PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Sorry for top posting; on an iPhone! > > So you're using an AppleTV? I'd really like to know if the ATV can > work with HD content: could you stream and playback at least 720p > video? I'd assumed not so well, which is why I was looking at the mini > instead... Thoughts? According to the info I can find, it absolutely will NOT do HD content, except Quicktime H.264 720p24. No other formats have hardware accaleration on the appletv, and it only has a 1GHz Pentium-M in it, so it doesn't have much to work with. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 21:48:41 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 17:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Aaron Vegh | So you're using an AppleTV? No. It is awaiting further hacking. | I'd really like to know if the ATV can work with | HD content: could you stream and playback at least 720p video? I'd assumed not | so well, which is why I was looking at the mini instead... Thoughts? It is supposed to work with iTunes content but I've no interest in trying. For one thing, it has to be a slave to a local machine running iTunes. iTunes supports MS Windows and Mac OSX, not Linux. The facts are hard to come by. According to this it supports TVs with 108p: http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html But this suggests that it is really doing 720p and having the hardware upscale if necessary: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1541610&tstart=135 I don't know what, say, mplayer can support. Some of the HD stuff may require hardware assisted codecs that might be in the Apple software and not mplayer or MythTV. The CPU is a sort of Pentium M at 1GHz. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 23:35:49 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:35:49 -0400 Subject: Changing MAC address - Broadcom 4400 NIC card In-Reply-To: <20080607154246.GD31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080607154246.GD31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <484B1B55.7060806@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Jun 07, 2008 at 03:35:47PM +0300, William Muriithi wrote: > >> I have a situation where the ISP uses MAC address as part of >> authentication. This means that only one PC can ever use this >> particular modem. So I have two options: >> >> 1] Call the ISP and ask them to swap the MAC address. >> > > How often are you making these changes? It does seem like the best > solution, although it is a pretty stupid way for an ISp to operate. > > While many do that, it may also be possible to use a new MAC by shutting down the modem for a few minutes. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 23:37:32 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:37:32 -0400 Subject: Changing MAC address - Broadcom 4400 NIC card In-Reply-To: <484AADE7.2030903-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <484AADE7.2030903@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <484B1BBC.5020204@rogers.com> Ivan Avery Frey wrote: > William Muriithi wrote: >> Hi pals, >> >> I have a situation where the ISP uses MAC address as part of >> authentication. This means that only one PC can ever use this >> particular modem. So I have two options: >> >> 1] Call the ISP and ask them to swap the MAC address. >> 2] Change the MAC address of the second host to the MAC address of the >> first host. > > You could use a router. My "router" is an old Compaq computer, running Linux. It's the 2nd computer I've had in that role. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 23:48:24 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:48:24 -0400 Subject: Acer blames Microsoft for Linux move - news - www.pcretailmag.com In-Reply-To: References: <4849B2DD.4030301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <484B1E48.4030305@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: James Knott > > | http://www.pcretailmag.com/news/29982/Acer-blames-Microsoft-for-Linux-move > > Interesting. More meat is on vunet (linked from the above article). > > Acer could start by supporting Linux on their boxes even if shipped > with MS Windows. In a judicious way: at least some of their Atheros > wireless cards are done in a way that confuses stock Linux drivers. > They could fix their BIOSes to support Linux suspend etc. > > I've not heard that Linux can make a battery last longer than MS > Windows. Last I heard, Linux was trying to catch up (a lot of the > work coming from Intel). > Actually, there was an article in the Linux Journal, a few years ago, that showed precisely that. The same situation occurred with OS/2 vs Windows. According to what I read many years ago, Windows makes poor use of interupts etc., using loops instead. > I'm surprised that they claim MS Windows costs 50GBP per unit. > Perhaps that is after some post-Microsoft markups (which would only be > reasonable, but it isn't stated). > > Their claim that Linux starts up in 15 seconds suggests that they are not > using any PC distro that I've got. That's perhaps what my Nokia N800 > takes. > > Blaming Microsoft seems odd. Saying that MS Windows doesn't suit all > their needs would be more correct. > > Perhaps this is posturing to get a better deal from Microsoft. > Or perhaps they, as a computer manufacturer, are getting fed up with MS, particularly with so many purchasers trying to avoid Vista. Read up on MS history for their strong arming of computer manufacturers, going back many years. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 7 23:48:27 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:48:27 -0400 Subject: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience In-Reply-To: <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> Message-ID: <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> Hello all, First of all, I want to express my thanks to everyone who offered their suggestions (and in one case, a quote featuring a "TLUG discount" :-) ) After doing some research we found that the particular model of PIX being used is so old that the newest version of the PIX software won't run on it... that always sounds a warning bell, when faced with the prospect of sinking money (ie, support/service costs) into obsoleted hardware. In my own mind, this is compounded by the absolutely miserable experience of calling Cisco on Tuesday ... more than an 90 minutes of my time (and my client's money) wasted with ZERO resolution of any question I had. They wouldn't even offer me the option of paying for out-of-warranty coverage or refer me to a local consultant. Absolutely 100% useless -- I am extremely reluctant to spent any more money supporting a vendor that would treat its customers so badly. (If there are any Cisco partners reading this you are welcome to forward these comments.) Given that this is really a small office (less than 25 network-attached devices _including_ the VPN) we are leaning towards dumping the PIX in favour of a simpler device such as the Linksys RVS4000 . Any suggestions of an alternate device (one that will support the Microsoft VPN client as well as PPPoE) are welcomed. (And yes -- I had considered a Linux-based firewall, I've done a few using IPCop so I was comfortable with the concept. But that would have been overkill for this site.) - Evan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 00:04:57 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 20:04:57 -0400 Subject: Microsoft Protests Linux on Phoenix Mars Mission - Future Mars Probe Will Run Windows Message-ID: <484B2229.60505@rogers.com> http://technocrat.net/d/2008/6/6/42780 -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 02:46:49 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 22:46:49 -0400 Subject: Acer blames Microsoft for Linux move - news - www.pcretailmag.com In-Reply-To: References: <4849B2DD.4030301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080608024649.GA3658@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Sat, Jun 07, 2008 at 04:09:08PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >| From: James Knott > >| http://www.pcretailmag.com/news/29982/Acer-blames-Microsoft-for-Linux-move >I've not heard that Linux can make a battery last longer than MS >Windows. Last I heard, Linux was trying to catch up (a lot of the >work coming from Intel). I don't know what is supposed to work, but I know that my IBM Thinkpad 600x would last 90 minutes under Linux (Firefox, Openbox, xterm, apache2 running, not much else) and ten minutes with Windows. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 03:39:47 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 23:39:47 -0400 Subject: Changing MAC address - Broadcom 4400 NIC card In-Reply-To: <484B1B55.7060806-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080607154246.GD31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <484B1B55.7060806@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080608033947.GF31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 07, 2008 at 07:35:49PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > While many do that, it may also be possible to use a new MAC by shutting > down the modem for a few minutes. Certainly some areas of rogers require powering off the modem for about 15 minutes before it access a new MAC address. At least they used to. Depended on the modem type to some extent. I think the old 'giant heatsink' modems tended to require it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 03:43:23 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 23:43:23 -0400 Subject: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience In-Reply-To: <484B1E4B.3080808-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080608034323.GG31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 07, 2008 at 07:48:27PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Given that this is really a small office (less than 25 network-attached > devices _including_ the VPN) we are leaning towards dumping the PIX in > favour of a simpler device such as the Linksys RVS4000 > . > Any suggestions of an alternate device (one that will support the > Microsoft VPN client as well as PPPoE) are welcomed. > > (And yes -- I had considered a Linux-based firewall, I've done a few > using IPCop so I was comfortable with the concept. But that would have > been overkill for this site.) It might not be overkill. Openswan ipsec + l2tpd works quite well with the windows VPN client. It doesn't take a particularly powerful PC to do the job of router for a small office. There is always options of running software like vyatta or linux router project or such on a generic PC to do the job. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 06:07:56 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 02:07:56 -0400 Subject: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience In-Reply-To: <20080608034323.GG31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> <20080608034323.GG31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <484B773C.20904@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> (And yes -- I had considered a Linux-based firewall, I've done a few >> using IPCop so I was comfortable with the concept. But that would have >> been overkill for this site.) >> > > It might not be overkill. > Sure it would. The installation simply does not need the flexibility, power and associated complexity of a Linux system. Sometimes an appliance does the job just fine. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 10:49:39 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 13:49:39 +0300 Subject: Changing MAC address - Broadcom 4400 NIC card In-Reply-To: <20080607154246.GD31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080607154246.GD31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hi Sorensen >> 1] Call the ISP and ask them to swap the MAC address. > > How often are you making these changes? It does seem like the best > solution, although it is a pretty stupid way for an ISp to operate. I would say not often. In fact, it will only be once since I don't intend to use them concurrently in the same LAN. Thanks guys. ifconfig does the work well. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 11:12:22 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:12:22 +0300 Subject: Software for real estate industry In-Reply-To: <200806071350.44893.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200806071350.44893.glayng@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Hi Layng, > Yes, and it depends on how much "real estate" we're talking about. > > (Until I decided to set up my own small business, I was a property accounting > manager.) Thanks a lot and you are right. The more precise definition of what I am looking for is property management software NOT real estate software. I am really glad I asked that question here. Now lets me see how I can get my hands on the software you suggested and get back to you. Again, thanks dude. Regards, William > > The most common used for small to medium sized firms would be Yardi. It's > pretty decent, aside from being so Microsoft-wedded. They are going to an > internet/intranet client, with Internet Exploder interface. I think they > need a browser that uses ActiveX on the on-line version. > > Another one I've used before is Timberline. It's got a decent reputation as > property accounting software, but I've not used it in some years now. > > AccPac has a Property Accounting module, from what I'm reading on the web. > Don't know if it works in Linux, but AccPac does have a Linux version. > > > On Saturday 07 June 2008 09:32, William Muriithi wrote: >> Hi there, >> >> Would there be someone here who have worked with a product >> specifically targeted to real estate industry that he/she would >> recommend to a friend? I don't mind the licensing, both open source or >> proprietary would be fine, as long as it does the job well >> >> Regards, >> William >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > there's no place like 127.0.0.1 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 11:49:58 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 07:49:58 -0400 Subject: Changing MAC address - Broadcom 4400 NIC card In-Reply-To: <20080608033947.GF31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080607154246.GD31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <484B1B55.7060806@rogers.com> <20080608033947.GF31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <484BC766.8090904@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Jun 07, 2008 at 07:35:49PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> While many do that, it may also be possible to use a new MAC by shutting >> down the modem for a few minutes. >> > > Certainly some areas of rogers require powering off the modem for about > 15 minutes before it access a new MAC address. At least they used to. > Depended on the modem type to some extent. I think the old 'giant > heatsink' modems tended to require it. > > It's certainly a simple enough thing to try. Turn off the modem, go for a beer and then come back and try again. Repeat as needed. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 16:00:33 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 12:00:33 -0400 Subject: MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 6/6/08, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi all, > I've lately been attempting to research hardware that would be > suitable for a Myth Frontend machine. I'm having a hell of a time with > it, as it turns out. My requirements are: > > - Must playback HD video > - Must have gigabit ethernet > - Must run either fanless or very silently > - Must have DVI output > - Really want it to be under $400 > > I'm actually considering buying a used Mac Mini, with the Core Duo > 1.66 GHz processor -- it's a couple years old, and can be had for > under $500 on eBay. The Everex gPC Mini that just came out also > appears to have the right hardware, but at $500 US is too much money. > > My understanding is that one should be able to save big bucks building > it themselves. I just can't find the right components, esp. the > motherboard. Any help or recommendations would be welcome! First off I am cc:'ing this to the local MythTV mailing list. I know there is a fair amount of overlap between the TLUG list and the MythTV list, but the MythTV list will bring in a few additional minds to the issue at hand (which also means my apologies to those who see this message twice...). I got back from a trip out of town Thursday (helping my mother get settled at home a a few weeks in hospital), After much internal debate I took up to her what had been my MythTV FE box (now converted to a FE/BE box), so I am now in the middle of a similar process (sorting out building a new FE box). The one thing I hated in the old box was the size, I used a SilverStone LC-13 case (very nice, solid, elegant looking case, with lots of space for motherboard, drives, etc.). The Silverstone LC-13 is more-or-less everything you would want in a FE/BE or pure BE case. As a FE box stuck in my modest size bedroom the LC-13 was just too big, it just took over the top of my dresser (sigh...). So, while the new box doesn't have to be pocket size, it can not be a full size box... Once one drops the idea of a full size case (and with it, the idea of a full size motherboard) the question is where else is one willing to accept compromises? In my case the answer is not in very many other places. While power supplies failing on me has not happened very often, it has occurred often enough that any machine that uses a proprietary power supply is out. I want a PSU that I can swap in minutes, and be able to get a replacement for from 95+% of the PC dealers in Toronto. This means the Shuttle boxes and the Apple TV boxes, cute as they are (and some are very cute) are out in my books. While doing another conversion of a FE box to FE/BE box is a very low priority for me, I do want that option on the table. So, I have turned towards the micro ATX motherboards, the smallest "standard" size motherboards. A max. of 4 expansion slots, but at least will use standard PCI and/or PCI express and/or AGP expansion cards. A range of micro ATX only case designs are available, some of which are very attractive and many accept standard power supplies. With the micro ATX motherboards route, appearance / speed / performance / cost / noise are all options you have some wiggle room on. For example I was NOT happy with the noise of the original CPU fan in my FE/BE box, so I bought a Thermaltake TR2-R1 CPU fan, which helped a lot (ALMOST silent). A box that can deal with HDTV content is just a matter of a decent CPU and decent video card (my old Semperon 2400+ CPU based FE with an nVidia 6200 card could (just) handle decent HDTV playback to an SD quality screen (but one had to pay attention to video settings)). My current target for my new FE box is $200 (Cdn.), a target I don't think I will quite make, still, I do expect to be under $250. A few things, this will be a diskless box, net booting off the main FE/BE box (so, no hard drive(s), DVD ROMs, etc.,) thus knocking ~$100+ off the cost of a more conventional box. Keyboard / mouse are coming out of my spare parts bin (again lowering costs). I have selected (and bought on Saturday) a case, a SilverStone SST-SG02-F in black (bought from Canada Computers (who have several locations in the GTA)). Still debating CPU/motherboard picks... I'll let folks know how my box comes together... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 16:47:01 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 12:47:01 -0400 Subject: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience In-Reply-To: <484B773C.20904-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> <20080608034323.GG31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <484B773C.20904@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080608164701.GH31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 02:07:56AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Sure it would. The installation simply does not need the flexibility, > power and associated complexity of a Linux system. > > Sometimes an appliance does the job just fine. I don't think supporting the microsoft VPN client is likely to happen with an appliance. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 17:02:19 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 13:02:19 -0400 Subject: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience In-Reply-To: <20080608164701.GH31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> <20080608034323.GG31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <484B773C.20904@telly.org> <20080608164701.GH31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <484C109B.8000009@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I don't think supporting the microsoft VPN client is likely to happen > with an appliance. > Based on what? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 17:54:44 2008 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 13:54:44 -0400 Subject: MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Colin McGregor wrote: > With the micro ATX motherboards route, appearance / speed / > performance / cost / noise are all options you have some wiggle room > on. > My current target for my new FE box is $200 (Cdn.), a target I don't > think I will quite make, still, I do expect to be under $250. A few > things, this will be a diskless box, net booting off the main FE/BE > box (so, no hard drive(s), DVD ROMs, etc.,) thus knocking ~$100+ off > the cost of a more conventional box. Keyboard / mouse are coming out > of my spare parts bin (again lowering costs). I have selected (and > bought on Saturday) a case, a SilverStone SST-SG02-F in black (bought > from Canada Computers (who have several locations in the GTA)). Still > debating CPU/motherboard picks... At work we're using fanless Mini-ITX boards build around VIA X86-style processors. Small, very quiet, very low power, fairly fast (up to 1.2 GHz). The prices would still stress your target budget.. motherboards from about $170 plus a $90 case/psu. Expandability could be a problem -- room for only 1 PCI card is normal. Some guys near Barrie were retailing this kind of thing as mini-pc.ca . Their web site still lists the merchandise, although they say they're leaving the business. They'll sell you the business, but not the merchandise. Their wholesaler was eprom.com, but that seems to be wholesale only. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 18:28:29 2008 From: paul-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w at public.gmane.org (Paul Nash) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:28:29 -0400 Subject: VPN appliances (was Re:Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience) In-Reply-To: <484B1E4B.3080808-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080608142829690964.7956d042@nashnetworks.ca> >) we are leaning towards > dumping the PIX in favour of a simpler device I have used DLink's small routers (DI-808 IIRC), which supportthe MS-PPTP client *but* have to have the default route on the remote network as they cannot assign IPs on the host network for some reason. They are not the most reliable in the world, but work OK. I used a Linksys box (RVL200 IIRC) with SSL VPN more recently, and the client is overjoyed. It only works with Windows/IE, but is easy to set up and trivial to use -- point a browser at the device to get the login page, enter username & password to start the tunnel via an Active-X control, close the browser window to kill the tunnel. I think that the Linksys RV042 supports MS-PPTP connections, if you *really* want them. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 18:56:18 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 14:56:18 -0400 Subject: VPN appliances (was Re:Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience) In-Reply-To: <20080608142829690964.7956d042-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> <20080608142829690964.7956d042@nashnetworks.ca> Message-ID: <484C2B52.2000903@telly.org> Paul Nash wrote: > I used a Linksys box (RVL200 IIRC) with SSL VPN more recently, and the > client is overjoyed. It only works with Windows/IE, but is easy to set > up and trivial to use -- point a browser at the device to get the login > page, enter username & password to start the tunnel via an Active-X > control, close the browser window to kill the tunnel. > This will be more than sufficient for my client's need. Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 20:00:20 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 16:00:20 -0400 Subject: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience In-Reply-To: <484C109B.8000009-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> <20080608034323.GG31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <484B773C.20904@telly.org> <20080608164701.GH31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <484C109B.8000009@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080608200020.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 01:02:19PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I don't think supporting the microsoft VPN client is likely to happen > > with an appliance. > > > Based on what? I haven't ever seen one that supported l2tp. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 20:01:25 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 16:01:25 -0400 Subject: VPN appliances (was Re:Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience) In-Reply-To: <20080608142829690964.7956d042-fQIO8zZcxYtFkWKT+BUv2w@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> <20080608142829690964.7956d042@nashnetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20080608200125.GJ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 02:28:29PM -0400, Paul Nash wrote: > I have used DLink's small routers (DI-808 IIRC), which supportthe > MS-PPTP client *but* have to have the default route on the remote > network as they cannot assign IPs on the host network for some reason. > They are not the most reliable in the world, but work OK. MS-PPTP is known to be insecure, so support for that is useless. > I used a Linksys box (RVL200 IIRC) with SSL VPN more recently, and the > client is overjoyed. It only works with Windows/IE, but is easy to set > up and trivial to use -- point a browser at the device to get the login > page, enter username & password to start the tunnel via an Active-X > control, close the browser window to kill the tunnel. > > I think that the Linksys RV042 supports MS-PPTP connections, if you > *really* want them. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 20:31:08 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 16:31:08 -0400 Subject: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience In-Reply-To: <20080608200020.GI31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> <20080608034323.GG31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <484B773C.20904@telly.org> <20080608164701.GH31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <484C109B.8000009@telly.org> <20080608200020.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <012e01c8c9a6$969fd370$c3df7a50$@com> Umm. But l2tp does not provide encryption. Maybe you mean l2tp with IPSec. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart > Sorensen > Sent: June 8, 2008 4:00 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience > > On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 01:02:19PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > I don't think supporting the microsoft VPN client is likely to > happen > > > with an appliance. > > > > > Based on what? > > I haven't ever seen one that supported l2tp. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 20:57:23 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 16:57:23 -0400 Subject: VPN appliances (was Re:Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience) In-Reply-To: <20080608200125.GJ31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> <20080608142829690964.7956d042@nashnetworks.ca> <20080608200125.GJ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <013d01c8c9aa$415a2830$c40e7890$@com> > MS-PPTP is known to be insecure, so support for that is useless. PPTP is based on RC4. A more accurate statement should be that PPTP is based on 128 bit RC4 which may not be suitable for all security applications. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 21:03:58 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 17:03:58 -0400 Subject: VPN appliances (was Re:Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience) In-Reply-To: <013d01c8c9aa$415a2830$c40e7890$@com> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> <20080608142829690964.7956d042@nashnetworks.ca> <20080608200125.GJ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <013d01c8c9aa$415a2830$c40e7890$@com> Message-ID: <484C493E.5050103@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> MS-PPTP is known to be insecure, so support for that is useless. >> > > > PPTP is based on RC4. A more accurate statement should be that PPTP is based > on 128 bit RC4 which may not be suitable for all security applications. > > As I understand it, Microsoft's implementation of PPTP is faulty, not PPTP in general. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 8 21:48:35 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 17:48:35 -0400 Subject: VPN appliances (was Re:Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience) In-Reply-To: <484C493E.5050103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> <20080608142829690964.7956d042@nashnetworks.ca> <20080608200125.GJ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <013d01c8c9aa$415a2830$c40e7890$@com> <484C493E.5050103@rogers.com> Message-ID: <015401c8c9b1$68dce300$3a96a900$@com> > As I understand it, Microsoft's implementation of PPTP is faulty, not > PPTP in general. > Naw. Its RC4 that most people complain about. (the same cipher in WEP :P). Microsoft and Cisco jointly created PPTP. PPTP on NT4 had lots of issues. So did PPTP on IOS. There hasn't been one for quite some time on either platform but the bad rep remains. The link most people reference when talking about PPTP is this page: http://poptop.sourceforge.net/dox/protocol-security.phtml Of which the information is rather dated. The typical complaint was the use of MS-CHAP and MS-CHAPv2. EAP and EAP-TLS have been available for years now with multifactor authentication. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 9 03:34:10 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 23:34:10 -0400 Subject: Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience In-Reply-To: <012e01c8c9a6$969fd370$c3df7a50$@com> References: <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> <20080608034323.GG31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <484B773C.20904@telly.org> <20080608164701.GH31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <484C109B.8000009@telly.org> <20080608200020.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <012e01c8c9a6$969fd370$c3df7a50$@com> Message-ID: <20080609033410.GK31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 04:31:08PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Umm. > But l2tp does not provide encryption. Maybe you mean l2tp with IPSec. Yes, since that is the combination Microsoft VPN client supports (other than the useless PPTP). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 9 03:37:46 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 23:37:46 -0400 Subject: VPN appliances (was Re:Looking for someone with Cisco PIX experience) In-Reply-To: <013d01c8c9aa$415a2830$c40e7890$@com> References: <4845BFBE.1020509@telly.org> <20080604135545.GY16163@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4846AC42.6010300@telly.org> <039501c8c655$b0c9bcb0$125d3610$@com> <484B1E4B.3080808@telly.org> <20080608142829690964.7956d042@nashnetworks.ca> <20080608200125.GJ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <013d01c8c9aa$415a2830$c40e7890$@com> Message-ID: <20080609033746.GL31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 04:57:23PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > PPTP is based on RC4. A more accurate statement should be that PPTP is based > on 128 bit RC4 which may not be suitable for all security applications. I seem to recall Microsoft's implementation is worse than that. At least it used to be. I guess that was almost 10 years ago so perhaps they have improved on it slightly, although there still seems to be many concerns over the possibility of spoofed control packets, weak encryption, and such. Use of PPTP certainly is simpler to setup, and may be handy for making tunnels, but you don't really want to rely on it if you actually care about the security of your data. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 9 03:40:47 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 23:40:47 -0400 Subject: [mythtv-gta]: Re:MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: <20080608202657.I63209-Ja3L+HSX0kI@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> <20080608202657.I63209@vex.net> Message-ID: <20080609034047.GM31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 08:59:42PM -0400, Doug Lee wrote: > Some interesting offerings on the VIA website but I don't know if any > will fit a standard case. > http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/ > > Some of these have built in H264 (mpeg4) decoding as well as mpeg2, a > future consideration for Blu-ray, downloads and non ATSC TV (EG:FTA > satellite because the DVB standards MAY use mpeg4 in place of mpeg2). I > have seen talk on various linux forums about open source drivers for these > boards/graphics chips including H264 decoding, Support is built into > mythtv. AFAIK software only decoding of 1080 line H264 taxes even the most > modern cpus. Well I certainly xvid decoding of 720p content doesn't cause any concern for my mythtv box at all, but it does run a quad 2.4GHz, so it better not mind. > Disclaimer: I don't have and have never played with one. I'm just giving > you a starting point for further research as they sound interesting. > > this one is a possibility. > http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/motherboards.jsp?motherboard_id=591 > VIA MMC 7000 > Main features snipped from the web page: > > VIA C7 1.5 GHz NanoBGA2 Processor > Integrated VIA UniChrome# Pro AGP graphics with MPEG-2 decode acceleration > 1 x PCI slot with 3 devices supported > (not sure what this means-optional riser board?) > 1 x PCI-e 16x based MXM-II (Mobile PCI Express Module) slot > VIA VT6103L 100/10 Ethernet PHY > Optional VIA VT6107 10/100 Mbps Fast Ethernet Controller or VT6122 > Gigabit Ethernet Controller > VIA VT1618 multi-channel AC'97 Codec > 3 x Audio jacks: Line-out, Line-in and MIC-in (Horizontal, Smart 5.1 > Supported) > 1 x DVI pin connector (supported by MXM-II add-on card) > 1 x VGA port > 1 x TV out (Composite/S-video or Component) pin connector (supported by > MXM-II add-on card) > 1 x ATX power connector > > or this one: > http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/motherboards.jsp?motherboard_id=630 > The VB7002 features the VIA CN896 chipset for superb graphics and video > playback. The VIA Chromotion video engine offers hardware acceleration > for the latest video codecs for a smooth multimedia playback... > > VIA C7-D 1.5 GHz NanoBGA2 Processor with FSB 400 MHz > 1 x 16-Lane PCIe slot > 1 x 32 Bit Mini PCI slot > 1 x ATX power connector > No onboard DVI or 100Mbit though. In many ways they are very outdated, but they do run quite cool. Not very fast though. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 9 12:59:26 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:59:26 -0400 Subject: Software for real estate industry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200806090859.28497.icanprogram@295.ca> You might want to take a look at the Open Realty project. http://www.open-realty.org/demo/ bob On June 7, 2008 09:32 am, William Muriithi wrote: > Hi there, > > Would there be someone here who have worked with a product > specifically targeted to real estate industry that he/she would > recommend to a friend? I don't mind the licensing, both open source or > proprietary would be fine, as long as it does the job well > > Regards, > William > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 9 15:46:35 2008 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 11:46:35 -0400 Subject: Software for real estate industry In-Reply-To: References: <200806071350.44893.glayng@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200806091146.36068.glayng@sympatico.ca> Those packages I listed were indeed property management software. If you're dealing with a lot of properties and an active property management scenario, you probably want something like MRI or Newstar. Medium to smaller sized, then Yardi or Spectra will do nicely. If you're dealing with a small handful of condo units that you're renting out, with everything largely managed by the condo corporation and you just collecting rents and doing occasional small in-suite repairs, then there's a Real Estate version of Quickbooks that will do. On Sunday 08 June 2008 07:12, William Muriithi wrote: > Hi Layng, > > > Yes, and it depends on how much "real estate" we're talking about. > > > > (Until I decided to set up my own small business, I was a property > > accounting manager.) > > Thanks a lot and you are right. The more precise definition of what I > am looking for is property management software NOT real estate > software. I am really glad I asked that question here. Now lets me see > how I can get my hands on the software you suggested and get back to > you. > > Again, thanks dude. > > Regards, > William > > > The most common used for small to medium sized firms would be Yardi. > > It's pretty decent, aside from being so Microsoft-wedded. They are going > > to an internet/intranet client, with Internet Exploder interface. I > > think they need a browser that uses ActiveX on the on-line version. > > > > Another one I've used before is Timberline. It's got a decent reputation > > as property accounting software, but I've not used it in some years now. > > > > AccPac has a Property Accounting module, from what I'm reading on the > > web. Don't know if it works in Linux, but AccPac does have a Linux > > version. > > > > On Saturday 07 June 2008 09:32, William Muriithi wrote: > >> Hi there, > >> > >> Would there be someone here who have worked with a product > >> specifically targeted to real estate industry that he/she would > >> recommend to a friend? I don't mind the licensing, both open source or > >> proprietary would be fine, as long as it does the job well > >> > >> Regards, > >> William > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > > there's no place like 127.0.0.1 > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 9 17:06:41 2008 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 13:06:41 -0400 Subject: Software for real estate industry In-Reply-To: <200806090859.28497.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200806090859.28497.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <200806091306.42642.glayng@sympatico.ca> This looks like an excellent software package for real estate agents. Not intended for property management, though. On Monday 09 June 2008 08:59, bob 295 wrote: > You might want to take a look at the Open Realty project. > > > http://www.open-realty.org/demo/ > > bob > > On June 7, 2008 09:32 am, William Muriithi wrote: > > Hi there, > > > > Would there be someone here who have worked with a product > > specifically targeted to real estate industry that he/she would > > recommend to a friend? I don't mind the licensing, both open source or > > proprietary would be fine, as long as it does the job well > > > > Regards, > > William > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 10 01:31:03 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:31:03 -0400 Subject: Fact Sheet & Background: Roadrunner Smashes the Petaflop Barrier Message-ID: <484DD957.2010206@rogers.com> Yet another Linux super computer. http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=67328 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 10 01:39:49 2008 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 21:39:49 -0400 Subject: Fact Sheet & Background: Roadrunner Smashes the Petaflop Barrier In-Reply-To: <484DD957.2010206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <484DD957.2010206@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200806092139.50024.glayng@sympatico.ca> Meanwhile, the Microsoft attempt at outdoing the Roadrunner supercomputer, code-named Coyote, just petaflops. (Sorry. The pun was just begging to be used.) On Monday 09 June 2008 21:31, James Knott wrote: > Yet another Linux super computer. > http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=67328 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- there's no place like 127.0.0.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 10 01:43:18 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:43:18 -0400 Subject: Fact Sheet & Background: Roadrunner Smashes the Petaflop Barrier In-Reply-To: <200806092139.50024.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <484DD957.2010206@rogers.com> <200806092139.50024.glayng@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <484DDC36.3000104@rogers.com> Gary Layng wrote: > Meanwhile, the Microsoft attempt at outdoing the Roadrunner supercomputer, > code-named Coyote, just petaflops. > > (Sorry. The pun was just begging to be used.) > > They'll probably use ACME CPUs. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 10 18:13:57 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:13:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: more mininotebooks Message-ID: The Asus EEE or perhaps the XO have spawned a new wave of small notebooks. I got an ad from HP promoting their HP 2133 Mini-Note PC units. The idiots sent me a US link, even though they know I'm in Canada. There are more models in the US. Canadian models are listed in increasing price whereas the US ones are listed in the opposite order. I wonder if that signifies a difference in psychology. US: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF25b/321957-321957-64295-321838-306995-3687084.html Canada: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/sm/WF25b/12139188-12139280-12139280-12139280-12434628-82025076.html On paper, this looks to have a lot of resolution (WXGA) for an 8.9" display. Via C7 CPU isn't strong, but is probably appropriate. Differential analysis of US prices: - replacing 4G flash disk with 120G HD, adding 512M RAM, and changing CPU from 1.0MHz to 1.2HZ costs $50 (10% increase). The specs list the same weight. Battery time is not specified for the HD version. - Vista Home Basic costs $50 more than SUSE SLED 10 - Vista Business, downgraded to WinXP Pro, + bluetooth adapter, costs $130 more than Vista Home Basic - going from 1.2GHz to 1.6GHz Via C7 costs $20 - but from there, the step up to 2G RAM from 1G is free (if you don't downgrade to WinXP from Win Vista). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 10 18:32:21 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:32:21 -0400 Subject: more mininotebooks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <484EC8B5.9080302@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The Asus EEE or perhaps the XO have spawned a new wave of small > notebooks. > > I got an ad from HP promoting their HP 2133 Mini-Note PC units. The > idiots sent me a US link, even though they know I'm in Canada. > There are more models in the US. > > Canadian models are listed in increasing price whereas the US ones are > listed in the opposite order. I wonder if that signifies a difference > in psychology. > > US: > http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF25b/321957-321957-64295-321838-306995-3687084.html > > Canada: > http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ca/en/sm/WF25b/12139188-12139280-12139280-12139280-12434628-82025076.html > > On paper, this looks to have a lot of resolution (WXGA) for an 8.9" > display. Via C7 CPU isn't strong, but is probably appropriate. > I see the same price both sides of the border. Also, the low end Vista system is $50 more than the Linux system on the same hardware. And there's no comparable Vista model to the bottom end Linux model. I guess this is a good indication of relative hardware requirements. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 16:48:50 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers confuses me again Message-ID: A couple of family members got email: http://your.rogers.com/newsletter1/images/SSR-B_G3.htm I didn't really understand what it is saying the first couple of times I read it. This is what I think: - rogers.com users have a "username". These are NOT email addresses. - each username has an associated email address. I think "associated" only means that messages for the username are sent to the associated email address. - this email address can be anything: it need not be an address provided by rogers. - in the past, an email address could be associated with several usernames mathematicians: this is assuming that the "associated" relation is symmetric. More properly, several usernames could be associated with the same email address. - to "make it easier and more convenient for you to use" rogers is going to drop all but one username associated with an email address. How is dropping usernames (and hence access to some rogers functionality) going to make it easier and more convenient? (I too have thought of the sarcastic answer: the less rogers service you have, the easier and more convenient it is.) - it is claimed that this message was sent to email addresses associated with more than one username. Our email addresses that got this, according to rogers own tools, don't, in fact, have multiple usernames. - if you want to complain, or ask about this email, tough: "You are receiving this e-mail as a registered user on Rogers.com. Please do not respond to this message, as it is a system generated e-mail." Grrr. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 17:13:48 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:13:48 -0400 Subject: Menu for multiple Kickstart scripts Message-ID: <485007CC.1020408@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've got a few kickstart scripts for a CentOS install that I need to choose between, depending on the underlying hardware (ie: single disk vs. software RAID). Currently I have a a handful of CDs, each with a different KS script. Is there a way to create a menu program that would allow for a single CD that would prompt the user which system-type they are installing? Can I simply modify the *.msg files in the diskboot.img image? If so, are there any decent tutorials on editing/creating the .msg and .lss files? Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 17:37:19 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:37:19 -0400 Subject: Menu for multiple Kickstart scripts In-Reply-To: <485007CC.1020408-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <485007CC.1020408@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <48500D4F.4070303@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've got a few kickstart scripts for a CentOS install that I need to > choose between, depending on the underlying hardware (ie: single disk > vs. software RAID). Currently I have a a handful of CDs, each with a > different KS script. > > Is there a way to create a menu program that would allow for a single > CD that would prompt the user which system-type they are installing? Can > I simply modify the *.msg files in the diskboot.img image? If so, are > there any decent tutorials on editing/creating the .msg and .lss files? Maybe take a look at grub and kickstart/anaconda: http://www.redhat.com/magazine/024oct06/features/kickstart If you're using grub on the live cds it appears that you can just pass anaconda options to kernel entries in grub :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 19:08:22 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:08:22 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" Message-ID: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> Hi list, My father is stuck using Rogers as his ISP because the DSL connection is his area is terrible. He runs a business from home and uses Exchange for his email server. (He's somewhat married to Microsoft, despite 6 or 7 years of me trying to change his mind--Exchange isn't going anywhere anytime soon.) As was mentioned on this list, Rogers has recently made it a requirement that you log in to some web interface and add all your outgoing email addresses to some list before their relay will allow your email to pass. My father is unwilling to use this interface on principle. I told him we could probably make use of a virtual private server running Linux to get around Rogers' annoyances. I imagined that he could rent something like a Slicehost machine, set up a VPN between home and the VPS, and then arrange his network such that mail comes and goes through the VPS, rather than through his Rogers IP. We went ahead and created a Slicehost account and it's configured with Debian Etch. I've secured it as best I know how and intend to spend Fathers' Day making OpenVPN work on the Debian machine and on a machine at my father's house. I realized, though, that my cursory understanding of TCP/IP routing might be getting in my way here. I was expecting to configure his mail server to use the Debian machine as the default gateway (ie. the mail server would get to the internet by going across the VPN and out the Debian machine), and have the Debian machine port-forward the incoming mail port (25?) directly to his mail server. I figured this would be a minimally-invasive change to his network settings and should "just work". I realized, though, that it may not be so simple because whichever machine is running the OpenVPN connection needs to know to use the Rogers cable modem as the default gateway in order to get the tunneled packets out to the internet in the first place, and you can't have two default gateways. Can someone here suggest a solution? What I'd like is for my father's DNS records to have the Debian machine's IP in their MX records, and for his Exchange server to be able to send and receive email through the Debian machine so he can ignore all of Rogers' nonsense. As I mentioned in a previous post to this list, I have a copy of "Linux Networking Cookbook", so I think I'll be able to set up iptables to do whatever port-forwarding and routing is necessary, but I'm struggling with the overall network architecture. Thanks, Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 19:30:59 2008 From: spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R.T.) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:30:59 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Stop re-inventing the wheel and use Google Apps For Your Domain ( https://www.google.com/a/ ). Setup is about 5 seconds, and you get a load of useful tools in addition to mail. On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: > Hi list, > > My father is stuck using Rogers as his ISP because the DSL connection > is his area is terrible. He runs a business from home and uses > Exchange for his email server. (He's somewhat married to Microsoft, > despite 6 or 7 years of me trying to change his mind--Exchange isn't > going anywhere anytime soon.) > > As was mentioned on this list, Rogers has recently made it a > requirement that you log in to some web interface and add all your > outgoing email addresses to some list before their relay will allow > your email to pass. My father is unwilling to use this interface on > principle. I told him we could probably make use of a virtual private > server running Linux to get around Rogers' annoyances. I imagined > that he could rent something like a Slicehost machine, set up a VPN > between home and the VPS, and then arrange his network such that mail > comes and goes through the VPS, rather than through his Rogers IP. > > We went ahead and created a Slicehost account and it's configured with > Debian Etch. I've secured it as best I know how and intend to spend > Fathers' Day making OpenVPN work on the Debian machine and on a > machine at my father's house. I realized, though, that my cursory > understanding of TCP/IP routing might be getting in my way here. I > was expecting to configure his mail server to use the Debian machine > as the default gateway (ie. the mail server would get to the internet > by going across the VPN and out the Debian machine), and have the > Debian machine port-forward the incoming mail port (25?) directly to > his mail server. I figured this would be a minimally-invasive change > to his network settings and should "just work". I realized, though, > that it may not be so simple because whichever machine is running the > OpenVPN connection needs to know to use the Rogers cable modem as the > default gateway in order to get the tunneled packets out to the > internet in the first place, and you can't have two default gateways. > > Can someone here suggest a solution? What I'd like is for my father's > DNS records to have the Debian machine's IP in their MX records, and > for his Exchange server to be able to send and receive email through > the Debian machine so he can ignore all of Rogers' nonsense. As I > mentioned in a previous post to this list, I have a copy of "Linux > Networking Cookbook", so I think I'll be able to set up iptables to do > whatever port-forwarding and routing is necessary, but I'm struggling > with the overall network architecture. > > Thanks, > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 19:38:40 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:38:40 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <485029C0.20507@utoronto.ca> Ian Petersen wrote: > Hi list, > > My father is stuck using Rogers as his ISP because the DSL connection > is his area is terrible. He runs a business from home and uses > Exchange for his email server. (He's somewhat married to Microsoft, > despite 6 or 7 years of me trying to change his mind--Exchange isn't > going anywhere anytime soon.) > > As was mentioned on this list, Rogers has recently made it a > requirement that you log in to some web interface and add all your > outgoing email addresses to some list before their relay will allow > your email to pass. My father is unwilling to use this interface on > principle. I told him we could probably make use of a virtual private > server running Linux to get around Rogers' annoyances. I imagined > that he could rent something like a Slicehost machine, set up a VPN > between home and the VPS, and then arrange his network such that mail > comes and goes through the VPS, rather than through his Rogers IP. > > We went ahead and created a Slicehost account and it's configured with > Debian Etch. I've secured it as best I know how and intend to spend > Fathers' Day making OpenVPN work on the Debian machine and on a > machine at my father's house. I realized, though, that my cursory > understanding of TCP/IP routing might be getting in my way here. I > was expecting to configure his mail server to use the Debian machine > as the default gateway (ie. the mail server would get to the internet > by going across the VPN and out the Debian machine), and have the > Debian machine port-forward the incoming mail port (25?) directly to > his mail server. I figured this would be a minimally-invasive change > to his network settings and should "just work". I realized, though, > that it may not be so simple because whichever machine is running the > OpenVPN connection needs to know to use the Rogers cable modem as the > default gateway in order to get the tunneled packets out to the > internet in the first place, and you can't have two default gateways. > > Can someone here suggest a solution? What I'd like is for my father's > DNS records to have the Debian machine's IP in their MX records, and > for his Exchange server to be able to send and receive email through > the Debian machine so he can ignore all of Rogers' nonsense. As I > mentioned in a previous post to this list, I have a copy of "Linux > Networking Cookbook", so I think I'll be able to set up iptables to do > whatever port-forwarding and routing is necessary, but I'm struggling > with the overall network architecture. Try having exchange send mail to the etch VPS on port 2525 or some other high port that Rogers doesn't filter. On the VPS forward port 2525 to 25 to let postfix relay for his exchange server e.g. http://rimuhosting.com/support/settingupemail.jsp?mta=postfix&t=blockingisp#blockingisp (This assumes Rogers isn't filtering based on content. In that case, you want to have TLS enabled and hope they don't throttle that down to near 0bps throughput). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 19:47:12 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:47:12 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420806111247q392e8baeqf9c8bb126ff90bd8@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:30 PM, R. T. wrote: > Stop re-inventing the wheel and use Google Apps For Your Domain ( > https://www.google.com/a/ ). > > Setup is about 5 seconds, and you get a load of useful tools in > addition to mail. That's a great idea, except for this: > On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: >> (He's somewhat married to Microsoft, >> despite 6 or 7 years of me trying to change his mind--Exchange isn't >> going anywhere anytime soon.) Google for Domains, or whatever it's called, is an excellent solution for lots of people. For whatever reason, it's not acceptable for my dad. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 20:01:16 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:01:16 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <485029C0.20507-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <485029C0.20507@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420806111301p7bae39acr88e82992b0dd4aec@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Try having exchange send mail to the etch VPS on port 2525 or some other > high port that Rogers doesn't filter. On the VPS forward port 2525 to 25 to > let postfix relay for his exchange server e.g. > http://rimuhosting.com/support/settingupemail.jsp?mta=postfix&t=blockingisp#blockingisp I'm not sure I completely understand you. You're suggesting that I run Postfix on the Etch VPS to accept outgoing mail from Exchange on a high port, and then forward it out the VPS in a "normal" way. Incoming mail is then handled by using iptables to redirect incoming port 25 traffic on the VPS to my dad's Rogers connection so that Exchange can receive it as if it had been sent directly there? It seems like there's no need for a VPN in here, which sounds good because it ought to be simpler, but I didn't realize you could use iptables to redirect traffic all the way across the internet like that. > (This assumes Rogers isn't filtering based on content. In that case, you > want to have TLS enabled and hope they don't throttle that down to near 0bps > throughput). Maybe, if TLS is necessary and Rogers throttles the encrypted traffic right down, I'll be able to take R. T.'s advice and switch everything over to Google for Domains--it'd be cheaper and easier for everyone involved. Thanks for the suggestions, Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 20:20:45 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:20:45 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806111301p7bae39acr88e82992b0dd4aec-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <485029C0.20507@utoronto.ca> <7ac602420806111301p7bae39acr88e82992b0dd4aec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420806111320o14af2730hecad9a009fd006f5@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Jamon Camisso > wrote: >> Try having exchange send mail to the etch VPS on port 2525 or some other >> high port that Rogers doesn't filter. On the VPS forward port 2525 to 25 to >> let postfix relay for his exchange server e.g. >> http://rimuhosting.com/support/settingupemail.jsp?mta=postfix&t=blockingisp#blockingisp > > I'm not sure I completely understand you. You're suggesting that I > run Postfix on the Etch VPS to accept outgoing mail from Exchange on a > high port, and then forward it out the VPS in a "normal" way. > Incoming mail is then handled by using iptables to redirect incoming > port 25 traffic on the VPS to my dad's Rogers connection so that > Exchange can receive it as if it had been sent directly there? It > seems like there's no need for a VPN in here, which sounds good > because it ought to be simpler, but I didn't realize you could use > iptables to redirect traffic all the way across the internet like > that. Sorry for replying to my own post here, but I had a thought after I sent my previous email. If I've understood you correctly, how do I implement your solution without turning the VPS into an open relay? It think it was the possibility of creating an open relay that made me think a VPN would be necessary in the first place. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 20:20:52 2008 From: spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R.T.) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:20:52 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806111247q392e8baeqf9c8bb126ff90bd8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806111247q392e8baeqf9c8bb126ff90bd8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A couple bonus points: - GAFYD is free; both in terms of subscription, your time, and his time. - POP3... check, IMAP... check. Jabber... check. - Calendar does ical, Docs do Word, Excel, and PowerPoint... as well as the OpenOffice formats, PDF, HTML, CSV, and so on. - These people seem to like it: http://www.google.com/a/help/intl/en/admins/customers.html If platform evangelism is really more important than running the business and making money, why would a Linux VPS be involved in the first place? That money is better spent on Hosted Exchange. On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:30 PM, R. T. wrote: >> Stop re-inventing the wheel and use Google Apps For Your Domain ( >> https://www.google.com/a/ ). >> >> Setup is about 5 seconds, and you get a load of useful tools in >> addition to mail. > > That's a great idea, except for this: > >> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: >>> (He's somewhat married to Microsoft, >>> despite 6 or 7 years of me trying to change his mind--Exchange isn't >>> going anywhere anytime soon.) > > Google for Domains, or whatever it's called, is an excellent solution > for lots of people. For whatever reason, it's not acceptable for my > dad. > > Ian > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 20:55:48 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:55:48 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806111247q392e8baeqf9c8bb126ff90bd8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420806111355x41ce011ene9f51a7f1902fc64@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 4:20 PM, R. T. wrote: > A couple bonus points: > - GAFYD is free; both in terms of subscription, your time, and his time. > - POP3... check, IMAP... check. Jabber... check. > - Calendar does ical, Docs do Word, Excel, and PowerPoint... as well > as the OpenOffice formats, PDF, HTML, CSV, and so on. > - These people seem to like it: > http://www.google.com/a/help/intl/en/admins/customers.html > > If platform evangelism is really more important than running the > business and making money, why would a Linux VPS be involved in the > first place? That money is better spent on Hosted Exchange. I think you're not getting my point. My dad wants an Exchange server running in his house handling his email (and whatever else Exchange handles). I've told him a number of times that there are a myriad of other solutions that would be easier, would not require working around Rogers, would be cheaper, might be more secure, would provide more features, would provide better uptime, etc. He's not interested. You know why? Because none of the other solutions involve running an Exchange server in his basement, handling his email locally. So thank you. GAFYD is a _great_ idea. It's not going to work for my dad. Ideally, he'd have an ISP that doesn't muck about with his traffic, and he'd run Exchange with no intermediaries besides a good firewall. Ideally, he'd probably be on TekSavvy and this discussion wouldn't have to happen. In real life, he's stuck with a pain-in-the-ass for an ISP and the Linux VPS is just a work around that I think might solve his problem. It's a _Linux_ VPS because I happen to think I'll be able to configure it as a router and Linux VPSs seem to be cheaper than the alternatives. The only guiding principle here is that Exchange should be the mail server and Rogers shouldn't have to care. Any solution that permits that arrangement is something we'd consider. Switching to a non-Exchange mail server running outside of my dad's house is not something we'll consider. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 23:13:37 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:13:37 -0400 Subject: Neat Tool of the Day - keyjnote Message-ID: This is a tool written in Python that displays slideshows of image files (JPEG, PNG, TIFF and BMP) or PDF documents. Rendering is done via OpenGL, which allows for some "eye candy" effects. http://keyjnote.sourceforge.net/manual.php OpenOffice/Impress is a package that I have been really underwhelmed by (as a would-be alternative to PowerPoint); keyjnote seems to provide the "eye candy" that has been lacking with the Linux-based choices... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 23:27:19 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:27:19 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806111247q392e8baeqf9c8bb126ff90bd8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806111247q392e8baeqf9c8bb126ff90bd8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48505F57.3060007@rogers.com> Ian Petersen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:30 PM, R. T. wrote: > >> Stop re-inventing the wheel and use Google Apps For Your Domain ( >> https://www.google.com/a/ ). >> >> Setup is about 5 seconds, and you get a load of useful tools in >> addition to mail. >> > > That's a great idea, except for this: > > >> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Ian Petersen wrote: >> >>> (He's somewhat married to Microsoft, >>> despite 6 or 7 years of me trying to change his mind--Exchange isn't >>> going anywhere anytime soon.) >>> > > Google for Domains, or whatever it's called, is an excellent solution > for lots of people. For whatever reason, it's not acceptable for my > dad. > It sounds to me like he's the problem, not the technology. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 23:31:50 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:31:50 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <48505F57.3060007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806111247q392e8baeqf9c8bb126ff90bd8@mail.gmail.com> <48505F57.3060007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880806111631tb8d4d1du152ce9aea0b8e9c1@mail.gmail.com> Hmm.. I do not know how accurate this is, but maybe his Dad wants all his data private and not on a third party site. What kind of information / email is he needing, maybe it needs to be private like government health ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 11 23:51:10 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:51:10 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880806111631tb8d4d1du152ce9aea0b8e9c1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806111247q392e8baeqf9c8bb126ff90bd8@mail.gmail.com> <48505F57.3060007@rogers.com> <32f6a8880806111631tb8d4d1du152ce9aea0b8e9c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01aa01c8cc1e$075204c0$15f60e40$@com> Good call.. lots of ppl I speak to nowadays refuse to use GApps specifically because of the patriot act. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080324.wrgoogle24/BNSto ry/Technology/home > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Dave > Germiquet > Sent: June 11, 2008 7:32 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Creating a "mail gateway" > > Hmm.. I do not know how accurate this is, but maybe his Dad wants all > his data private and not on a third party site. > > What kind of information / email is he needing, maybe it needs to be > private like government health ;) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 00:59:28 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:59:28 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080612005928.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 03:08:22PM -0400, Ian Petersen wrote: > My father is stuck using Rogers as his ISP because the DSL connection > is his area is terrible. He runs a business from home and uses > Exchange for his email server. (He's somewhat married to Microsoft, > despite 6 or 7 years of me trying to change his mind--Exchange isn't > going anywhere anytime soon.) > > As was mentioned on this list, Rogers has recently made it a > requirement that you log in to some web interface and add all your > outgoing email addresses to some list before their relay will allow > your email to pass. My father is unwilling to use this interface on > principle. I told him we could probably make use of a virtual private > server running Linux to get around Rogers' annoyances. I imagined > that he could rent something like a Slicehost machine, set up a VPN > between home and the VPS, and then arrange his network such that mail > comes and goes through the VPS, rather than through his Rogers IP. > > We went ahead and created a Slicehost account and it's configured with > Debian Etch. I've secured it as best I know how and intend to spend > Fathers' Day making OpenVPN work on the Debian machine and on a > machine at my father's house. I realized, though, that my cursory > understanding of TCP/IP routing might be getting in my way here. I > was expecting to configure his mail server to use the Debian machine > as the default gateway (ie. the mail server would get to the internet > by going across the VPN and out the Debian machine), and have the > Debian machine port-forward the incoming mail port (25?) directly to > his mail server. I figured this would be a minimally-invasive change > to his network settings and should "just work". I realized, though, > that it may not be so simple because whichever machine is running the > OpenVPN connection needs to know to use the Rogers cable modem as the > default gateway in order to get the tunneled packets out to the > internet in the first place, and you can't have two default gateways. I have never used OpenVPN, so no idea what it does. I use openswan IPsec for such things. > Can someone here suggest a solution? What I'd like is for my father's > DNS records to have the Debian machine's IP in their MX records, and > for his Exchange server to be able to send and receive email through > the Debian machine so he can ignore all of Rogers' nonsense. As I > mentioned in a previous post to this list, I have a copy of "Linux > Networking Cookbook", so I think I'll be able to set up iptables to do > whatever port-forwarding and routing is necessary, but I'm struggling > with the overall network architecture. You could have more than one gateway although you probably don't need it. If you configure the exchange server to use the private IP of the Debian mail server as it's mail server to send through, then it won't be going through the default route but rather through the VPN to the other subnet. For example: exchange server 192.168.1.10/24 default gateway: 192.168.1.1 gateway router 192.168.1.1/24 external IP default gateway: internet VPN link to hosted server with 192.168.2.0/24 subnet hosted server 192.168.2.1/24 on secondary interface or optionally dummy0 external IP default gateway: internet VPN link to gateway router with 192.168.1.0/24 subnet Both end of the VPN link knows about the other private network and that they can route to it through the VPN. So the exchange server simply has to deliver mail to 192.168.2.1 and the hosted mail server delivers incoming mail to 192.168.1.10 I know OpenSwan IPsec can do it easily. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 01:05:53 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:05:53 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806111355x41ce011ene9f51a7f1902fc64-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806111247q392e8baeqf9c8bb126ff90bd8@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806111355x41ce011ene9f51a7f1902fc64@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080612010553.GP31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 04:55:48PM -0400, Ian Petersen wrote: > I think you're not getting my point. > > My dad wants an Exchange server running in his house handling his > email (and whatever else Exchange handles). I've told him a number of > times that there are a myriad of other solutions that would be easier, > would not require working around Rogers, would be cheaper, might be > more secure, would provide more features, would provide better uptime, > etc. He's not interested. You know why? Because none of the other > solutions involve running an Exchange server in his basement, handling > his email locally. So thank you. GAFYD is a _great_ idea. It's not > going to work for my dad. Reminds me a bit of the system administrator that started at a company I once worked at shortly after I had left there. One of his firsts ideas was to replace a linux sendmail server that had worked perfectly for years with an exchange server because he didn't know how to manage sendmail or linux. Well he didn't know how to manage exchange either and ended up breaking all email access for the company for quite a while, and was eventually fired. It's rather embarasing when a customer calls up a company to tell them what configuration error they have on their mail server causing them to be unable to receive emails. It is annoying when the support email address doesn't work and you have a question to ask. Some people simply have no business running a mail server, especially exchange. > Ideally, he'd have an ISP that doesn't muck about with his traffic, > and he'd run Exchange with no intermediaries besides a good firewall. > Ideally, he'd probably be on TekSavvy and this discussion wouldn't > have to happen. In real life, he's stuck with a pain-in-the-ass for > an ISP and the Linux VPS is just a work around that I think might > solve his problem. It's a _Linux_ VPS because I happen to think I'll > be able to configure it as a router and Linux VPSs seem to be cheaper > than the alternatives. The only guiding principle here is that > Exchange should be the mail server and Rogers shouldn't have to care. > Any solution that permits that arrangement is something we'd consider. > Switching to a non-Exchange mail server running outside of my dad's > house is not something we'll consider. Well it sounds a lot like that is pretty much what you will have to do, at least as an external mail forwarder. Exchange can still be the local interface and the place that stores email though. For that matter at work we run exchange (main server, and important to the blackberry addicts) as well as a postfix server and a baracuda spam filter, and they all get along fine each doing their thing and exchanging mail with each other as needed. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 04:33:56 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 00:33:56 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <20080612005928.GO31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <20080612005928.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420806112133v5d751727s51fdd346692cd928@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I have never used OpenVPN, so no idea what it does. I use openswan > IPsec for such things. My understanding, which could be flawed, is that IPSec is a Swiss Army Chainsaw for doing things with encryption and authentication on the internet. OpenVPN is a VPN, nothing more. The reviews of IPSec that I've read make it sound like it's complex enough that you have to know exactly what you're doing or you'll end up creating a really insecure tunnel, rather than a VPN. On the other hand, OpenVPN is supposed to be nearly trivial to install and configure and it's secure by default. OpenVPN also has the benefit of being cross-platform, so using OpenVPN means I don't have to rely on Microsoft's IPSec implementation. (I have no idea if Microsoft did a good job implementing IPSec--I don't even know if Microsoft implemented it at all--but OpenVPN allows me to proceed without caring.) > If you configure the exchange server to use the private IP of the > Debian mail server as it's mail server to send through, then it won't be > going through the default route but rather through the VPN to the other > subnet. That makes a whole lot of sense. Now I'm going to have to learn about configuring a mail server to just ferry mail back and forth. What should I be searching for? "Store and foward"? I'll look again at the link Jamon provided, and see what I can find on Google by myself, but any links or search terms that you think would be helpful would be much appreciated. > For example: > > exchange server > 192.168.1.10/24 > default gateway: 192.168.1.1 > > gateway router > 192.168.1.1/24 > external IP > default gateway: internet > VPN link to hosted server with 192.168.2.0/24 subnet > > hosted server > 192.168.2.1/24 on secondary interface or optionally dummy0 > external IP > default gateway: internet > VPN link to gateway router with 192.168.1.0/24 subnet > > Both end of the VPN link knows about the other private network and that > they can route to it through the VPN. So the exchange server simply has > to deliver mail to 192.168.2.1 and the hosted mail server delivers > incoming mail to 192.168.1.10 Thanks for the example--I think that'll help with configuring everything. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 11:01:58 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:01:58 -0400 Subject: The meaning of "drwxr-xr-x+" Message-ID: <1213268518.25588.2.camel@aragorn> This is, of course, for "ls -l". I am only concerned about the interpretation of the plus sign. What attributes must a directory have to have the "+" or to remove it? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 12:03:23 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:03:23 -0400 Subject: The meaning of "drwxr-xr-x+" In-Reply-To: <1213268518.25588.2.camel@aragorn> References: <1213268518.25588.2.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <029201c8cc84$5159ad00$f40d0700$@com> It indicates that the file or directory has an ACL. Man getfacl and setfacl. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Paul > King > Sent: June 12, 2008 7:02 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: The meaning of "drwxr-xr-x+" > > This is, of course, for "ls -l". I am only concerned about the > interpretation of the plus sign. What attributes must a directory have > to have the "+" or to remove it? > > Paul King > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 13:15:39 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:15:39 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806112133v5d751727s51fdd346692cd928-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <20080612005928.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806112133v5d751727s51fdd346692cd928@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4851217B.9020600@utoronto.ca> Ian Petersen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> If you configure the exchange server to use the private IP of the >> Debian mail server as it's mail server to send through, then it won't be >> going through the default route but rather through the VPN to the other >> subnet. > > That makes a whole lot of sense. Now I'm going to have to learn about > configuring a mail server to just ferry mail back and forth. What > should I be searching for? "Store and foward"? I'll look again at > the link Jamon provided, and see what I can find on Google by myself, > but any links or search terms that you think would be helpful would be > much appreciated. Try http://www.howtoforge.com/mandriva_postfix_antispam_antivirus_exchange_p3 it should provide the rest of what you need to get mail sending. Note that the nearly static IP with Rogers is a help for the permit_mynetworks directive. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 14:03:15 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: =?ISO-8859-7?Q?Rogers_explains_=A1shaping'_policy?= Message-ID: >From the Globe and Mail: "Rogers explains ‘shaping' policy" Network management has been misinterpreted and misunderstood, said Rogers chief strategist Mike Lee This explanation is defective. Clearly they cannot give every user maximum bandwidth all the time -- they are oversubscribed, and that is a good thing. The question is how they should divy up the bandwidth. The simplest fair answer is to divide it up by customer, not protocol. One could also allow customers declare QoS requests in a way that would not allow "gaming" of the system. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 14:44:09 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:44:09 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains =?windows-1252?Q?=91shaping=27_pol?= =?windows-1252?Q?icy?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > The question is how they should divy up the bandwidth. > I thought that this was addressed well. They divvy up the bandwidth by partitioning the residential bandwidth so most is for downloading, and little is for uploading. Most domestic uploading (measured by volume) is file sharing of copyrighted videos. By limiting uploads, they are limiting the amount of this data that can enter the Internet "cloud" This has the consequence of limiting downloads of this data. Legitimate servers that do not have small upload pipes can feed the cloud at much higher transfer rates. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 15:10:18 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:10:18 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains =?windows-1252?Q?=91shaping=27_pol?= =?windows-1252?Q?icy?= In-Reply-To: <48513639.9010600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <48513C5A.8040301@utoronto.ca> Stephen wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> The question is how they should divy up the bandwidth. >> > I thought that this was addressed well. > > They divvy up the bandwidth by partitioning the residential bandwidth so > most is for downloading, > and little is for uploading. > > Most domestic uploading (measured by volume) is file sharing of > copyrighted videos. > > By limiting uploads, they are limiting the amount of this data that can > enter the Internet "cloud" > > This has the consequence of limiting downloads of this data. > > Legitimate servers that do not have small upload pipes can feed the > cloud at much higher transfer > rates. I don't know this site, nor the legitimacy of the numbers, but this was on slashdot the other day and notes that most bandwidth used during peak hours is http, specifically related to streaming video: http://gigaom.com/2008/04/22/shocking-new-facts-about-p2p-and-broadband-usage/ # 20 percent of traffic is P2P applications # During peak-load times, 70 percent of subscribers use http while 20 percent are using P2P # Http still makes up the majority of the total traffic, of which 45 percent is traditional web content that includes text and images. Streaming video and audio content from services like YouTube accounts for nearly 50 percent of the http traffic. Limiting upload speeds across the board will be a great way for ISPs to unwittingly help out recreating the asymmetric relationship (like television) between users and the media they consume, e.g. slow posting to youtbe for those who use it etc. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 15:26:29 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:26:29 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806112133v5d751727s51fdd346692cd928-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <20080612005928.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806112133v5d751727s51fdd346692cd928@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080612152629.GQ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:33:56AM -0400, Ian Petersen wrote: > My understanding, which could be flawed, is that IPSec is a Swiss Army > Chainsaw for doing things with encryption and authentication on the > internet. OpenVPN is a VPN, nothing more. The reviews of IPSec that > I've read make it sound like it's complex enough that you have to know > exactly what you're doing or you'll end up creating a really insecure > tunnel, rather than a VPN. On the other hand, OpenVPN is supposed to > be nearly trivial to install and configure and it's secure by default. > OpenVPN also has the benefit of being cross-platform, so using > OpenVPN means I don't have to rely on Microsoft's IPSec > implementation. (I have no idea if Microsoft did a good job > implementing IPSec--I don't even know if Microsoft implemented it at > all--but OpenVPN allows me to proceed without caring.) Setting up openswan is generally very very simple. It also handles all traffic types well and efficiently (no VPN should EVER use a tcp connection, so IPsec uses udp). Certainly with a pre shared key, IPsec is trivial. With RSA keys, it's still pretty simple. When using certificates, IPsec itself is pretty simple and nice, but generating certificates seems to be an awfully difficult task. Example ipsec.conf: include /etc/ipsec.d/examples/no_oe.conf conn maillink authby=rsasig auto=start compress=no esp=aes left=%any (since rogers isn't completely static so you can't rely on it staying put) leftid=Home leftrsasigkey=.....(public rsa signature)... leftsubnet=192.168.1.0/24 pfs=yes right=hosted.server.static.ip rightid=Hosted rightrsasigkey=.....(public rsa signature)... type=tunnel This would actually not need a subnet at the hosted end. It just encrypt traffic between a local private network, and the hosted server on the internet. You could have a rightsubnet too, although it probably wouldn't be helpful here. > That makes a whole lot of sense. Now I'm going to have to learn about > configuring a mail server to just ferry mail back and forth. What > should I be searching for? "Store and foward"? I'll look again at > the link Jamon provided, and see what I can find on Google by myself, > but any links or search terms that you think would be helpful would be > much appreciated. Well for incoming mail, just configure the linux box as if it was a secondary mail server for the domain, so that it will accept mail and forward it (unless it can't reach the primary server in which case it stores it until it can). For outgoing, configure it as a mail server that is willing to relay for machines on the private IPs, and then figure out how to make exchange send out using another mail server as a realy. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 15:47:30 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:47:30 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains =?UTF-8?B?4oCYc2hhcGluZycgcG9saWN5?= In-Reply-To: <48513C5A.8040301-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <48513C5A.8040301@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <48514512.6060509@telly.org> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Limiting upload speeds across the board will be a great way for ISPs > to unwittingly help out recreating the asymmetric relationship (like > television) between users and the media they consume, e.g. slow > posting to youtbe for those who use it etc. What makes you think this is unintentional? ("unwittingly") Rogers owns a number of print and broadcast media outlets and has a strategic relationship with Yahoo. They have every interest in maintaining (and indeed enhancing) an asymmetric relationship between "providers" and "consumers" of data. P2P -- even for legitimately-copyable content -- blurs the distinction and scares the crap out of them. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 16:05:12 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 12:05:12 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains =?UTF-8?B?4oCYc2hhcGluZycgcG9saWN5?= In-Reply-To: <48514512.6060509-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <48513C5A.8040301@utoronto.ca> <48514512.6060509@telly.org> Message-ID: <48514938.2010808@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Rogers owns a number of print and broadcast media outlets and has a > strategic relationship with Yahoo. They have every interest in > maintaining (and indeed enhancing) an asymmetric relationship between > "providers" and "consumers" of data. P2P -- even for > legitimately-copyable content -- blurs the distinction and scares the > crap out of them. > If we divided the amount of legally copyable data by the amount of copyrighted data distributed on P2P networks, I wonder how many decimal points we would need to go to before the answer does not round down to zero? Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 16:38:13 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 12:38:13 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains =?UTF-8?B?4oCYc2hhcGluZycgcG9saWN5?= In-Reply-To: <48513639.9010600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <485150F5.6090900@dinamis.com> You sound like a Roger PR guy. Stephen wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> The question is how they should divy up the bandwidth. >> > I thought that this was addressed well. > > They divvy up the bandwidth by partitioning the residential bandwidth so > most is for downloading, > and little is for uploading. What is so special about uploaded vs. downloaded packets? Are uploaded packets "heavier"? Bandwidth is bandwidth. I should be able to specify the QoS so that I can dynamically allocate the proportion of up/down rates as my needs change. All Rogers has to tell me is that I can burst up to some transfer rate. I'll take care of the rest. > Most domestic uploading (measured by volume) is file sharing of > copyrighted videos. Proof? What if I want to back up my computers, and I do, to Amazon's S3 service? What if I want to upload photos and videos that I have taken to share with my family? What if I want to share content that the copyright holder actively encourages people to share via BitTorrent, such as some documentaries created by the CBC and BBC? ISPs like Rogers and Bell wrap themselves in the flag of copyright protection. It is not their job to protect anyone's copyright but their own. By taking these measures, supposedly in the name of protecting copyright holders, they lose their status as common carriers and now become censors and gatekeepers. I hope Rogers and Bell get sued out of existence when some sharp lawyer mounts a successful attack on behalf of copyright holders whose "content" managed to slip through the Rogers/Bell copyright enforcement dragnet. > By limiting uploads, they are limiting the amount of this data that can > enter the Internet "cloud" > > This has the consequence of limiting downloads of this data. It has no such consequence. There is zero cost to duplicating digital data and all attempts by ISPs to enforce copyright law are bound to be futile. All this blather about copyright protection is nothing more than a smokescreen to hide their real agenda, which is to use their monopoly position to kill potential rivals for the media side of their businesses. If enough broadcasters started making shows available via BitTorrent, why would anyone pay a monthly fee to Bell ExpressVu or Rogers Cable to deliver the same shows? The real problem here is that Rogers and Bell have a conflict-of-interest. They are engaging in these anti-competitive practices to protect their own business interests. This is a sufficiently complex issue that it's easy for Rogers and Bell to bamboozle and lobby legislators, regulators, and the general public. > Legitimate servers that do not have small upload pipes can feed the > cloud at much higher transfer > rates. Pray tell, how does one get data to these "legitimate servers" then? And what constitutes a "legitimate server"? It seems to me there are plenty of rogue servers all over the world, the sole purpose of which is to send spam or spread malware. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 16:51:31 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 12:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Conspiracy? Message-ID: <20503.99.253.255.228.1213289491.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Since we're hammering Rogers in another thread, here's equal time for Bell: A friend of mine has DSL service with Sympatico. One day, the service stops working, so he phones Bell. The service tech asks for the customer address and says 'Oh, don't worry about the problem'. Then the so-called tech guy gives my friend a sales pitch on some Bell products. When my friend gets off the phone, miraculously, the DSL is working again. A few weeks later, the same sequence of events. Anyone else heard of this? Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 17:19:22 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:19:22 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: <20503.99.253.255.228.1213289491.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20503.99.253.255.228.1213289491.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20080612171922.GF31963@watson-wilson.ca> *whispers* I've opened several tickets with my non-Bell DSL provider about increasing my line speed. My ISP tells me that Bell tells them that my line quality is not good enough. However, during that time I had multiple calls from Bell offering me a 6MB DSL account. Incompetence is more likely than conspiracy but theories are fun. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 17:24:08 2008 From: sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:24:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: <20080612171922.GF31963-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20080612171922.GF31963@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <416943.38424.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- Neil Watson wrote: > Incompetence is more likely than conspiracy but > theories are fun. Neither is exclusive :-) Bell surely supports multiple conspiracy and incompetence based crypto-organisms.... Rob Rob Sutherland 'Would you like fries with that?' -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 17:57:48 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:57:48 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains =?UTF-8?B?4oCYc2hhcGluZycgcG9saWN5?= In-Reply-To: <48514938.2010808-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <48513C5A.8040301@utoronto.ca> <48514512.6060509@telly.org> <48514938.2010808@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4851639C.6090808@dinamis.com> Stephen wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> Rogers owns a number of print and broadcast media outlets and has a >> strategic relationship with Yahoo. They have every interest in >> maintaining (and indeed enhancing) an asymmetric relationship between >> "providers" and "consumers" of data. P2P -- even for >> legitimately-copyable content -- blurs the distinction and scares the >> crap out of them. >> > If we divided the amount of legally copyable data by the amount of > copyrighted data distributed > on P2P networks, I wonder how many decimal points we would need to go to > before the answer > does not round down to zero? Stephen, you're the one who keeps making these assertions so the onus of proof is upon you and so far, what you have written could have been written by the PR department of Rogers or Bell. Even if what you say is true, the ISP side of Rogers and Bell are supposed to be common carriers. They are not supposed to care about what traffic passes over their network, and they clearly don't judging by the amount of spam and malware that they quite properly, deliver to me. I do not expect them to filter spam, viruses, or anything. All I expect from Rogers, the ISP that I use only because I dislike them less than I dislike Bell, is a reliable connection and an IP address, that's it. I certainly do not expect or want them to inspect traffic to me or leaving my computer to make determinations about its copyright. There are adequate provisions in law to deal with copyright violations without needing the ISPs to start playing copyright police. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 18:59:18 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:59:18 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains =?UTF-8?B?4oCYc2hhcGluZycgcG9saWN5?= In-Reply-To: <4851639C.6090808-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <48513C5A.8040301@utoronto.ca> <48514512.6060509@telly.org> <48514938.2010808@rogers.com> <4851639C.6090808@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <48517206.2090707@rogers.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Stephen, you're the one who keeps making these assertions so the onus > of proof is upon you and so far, what you have written could have been > written by the PR department of Rogers or Bell. Even if what you say > is true, the ISP side of Rogers and Bell are supposed to be common > carriers. They are not supposed to care about what traffic passes over > their network, and they clearly don't judging by the amount of spam > and malware that they quite properly, deliver to me. I do not expect > them to filter spam, viruses, or anything. All I expect from Rogers, > the ISP that I use only because I dislike them less than I dislike > Bell, is a reliable connection and an IP address, that's it. I > certainly do not expect or want them to inspect traffic to me or > leaving my computer to make determinations about its copyright. There > are adequate provisions in law to deal with copyright violations > without needing the ISPs to start playing copyright police. If all Rogers is doing is making an asymmetrical partition of bandwidth, so downloads have much more than uploads, that does not jeopardize their common carrier status. This has nothing to do with analyzing the data packets. It does have as a side effect, unintended or intended, of really impairing the performance of P2P data transfers. They may be very happy about this. But they do not have to throttle P2P to make performance bad. All that is needed is to keep the upload pipe small. Every time a provider on a P2P network adds a new file to their directory, its existence gets propagated at a geometric rate. So when you start downloading the new file, you may get full use of the providers small upload pipe. Then another transfer starts, and you just have 50%. A couple more and you are down to 25%. So it would appear, as time goes on, that the traffic is being throttled. In fact, the uploaders access ramp to the Internet is just getting congested. As for your belief that "there are adequate provisions in law to deal with copyright violations" you may want to check on what the government tabled today. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 19:45:07 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:45:07 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: <416943.38424.qm-oJ4krsu4Cqb5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <416943.38424.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48517CC3.1060201@alteeve.com> Rob Sutherland wrote: > --- Neil Watson wrote: > >> Incompetence is more likely than conspiracy but >> theories are fun. > > Neither is exclusive :-) Bell surely supports multiple > conspiracy and incompetence based crypto-organisms.... > > Rob > > > > Rob Sutherland > > 'Would you like fries with that?' When they started throttling our connection, I decided the hassle to switch to my bosses ISP was worth it. While canceling my connection, the rep asked me why I was leaving. She told me, bald face and dead serious, that *they* weren't throttling me, my new ISP was. Two problems here; 1) I work at the ISP and have been talking at length with my boss about possible work arounds to get our customers back up to speed. 2) I hadn't actually cut over yet, and was already throttled. So the moral of this story; Bell lies through their pathetic oversized teeth. Trying to lay blame on small ISPs for their shinanigans is simply outrageous. I wouldn't put *anything* past those scum bags. >:| Madi, who you can probably gather has an issue with Bell. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 20:12:46 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:12:46 -0400 Subject: OT: Digital Online Rights / DVD / Cellphone Message-ID: <32f6a8880806121312j29f09022m4ff4a3e050ac37d3@mail.gmail.com> Hi Everyone, Please see below, its a bit off topic but I'd figure you guys might be interested if you are unaware. There saying if you rip your own bought dvds to ipod format its illegal and if you have unlocked cellphones . Check out Online Rights Canada's new action alert, "A Copyright Law for Canadians": http://www.OnlineRights.ca/get_active/copyright_for_canadians/ Here's what their website says about it: "A new copyright law for Canada is coming. Make sure your MP knows what's at stake!" 621 people have already taken action. Add your voice today! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 20:42:13 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:42:13 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains ???shaping' policy In-Reply-To: <485150F5.6090900-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <485150F5.6090900@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20080612204213.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:38:13PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > What is so special about uploaded vs. downloaded packets? Are uploaded > packets "heavier"? Bandwidth is bandwidth. I should be able to specify > the QoS so that I can dynamically allocate the proportion of up/down > rates as my needs change. All Rogers has to tell me is that I can burst > up to some transfer rate. I'll take care of the rest. Actually DOCSIS was just misdesigned. The amount of bandwidth allocated for uploads from customers is much much lower than the bandwidth allocated for downloads. It is I believe much more asymetric than ADSL. > Proof? What if I want to back up my computers, and I do, to Amazon's S3 > service? What if I want to upload photos and videos that I have taken to > share with my family? What if I want to share content that the copyright > holder actively encourages people to share via BitTorrent, such as some > documentaries created by the CBC and BBC? ISPs like Rogers and Bell wrap > themselves in the flag of copyright protection. It is not their job to > protect anyone's copyright but their own. By taking these measures, > supposedly in the name of protecting copyright holders, they lose their > status as common carriers and now become censors and gatekeepers. I hope > Rogers and Bell get sued out of existence when some sharp lawyer mounts > a successful attack on behalf of copyright holders whose "content" > managed to slip through the Rogers/Bell copyright enforcement dragnet. Besides if you transfer a copyrighted video, how do they know what you have permission to do? Perhaps you are the copyright owner who is transfering your copyrighted video to a distributer. > It has no such consequence. There is zero cost to duplicating digital > data and all attempts by ISPs to enforce copyright law are bound to be > futile. All this blather about copyright protection is nothing more than > a smokescreen to hide their real agenda, which is to use their monopoly > position to kill potential rivals for the media side of their > businesses. If enough broadcasters started making shows available via > BitTorrent, why would anyone pay a monthly fee to Bell ExpressVu or > Rogers Cable to deliver the same shows? The real problem here is that > Rogers and Bell have a conflict-of-interest. They are engaging in these > anti-competitive practices to protect their own business interests. This > is a sufficiently complex issue that it's easy for Rogers and Bell to > bamboozle and lobby legislators, regulators, and the general public. Many smaller ISPs tend to be charged for peering with large providers and have to pay for the uploads to be carried, but may not be charged for the downloads, so they are often interested in not being the source of much traffic, only the destination. At least I think it used to be that way. Large ISps would peer with each other with no charge to each other as long as the bandwidth use each way was fairly similar. > Pray tell, how does one get data to these "legitimate servers" then? And > what constitutes a "legitimate server"? It seems to me there are plenty > of rogue servers all over the world, the sole purpose of which is to > send spam or spread malware. Sneaker net of course. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 20:59:25 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: =?ISO-8859-7?Q?Re=3A_=5BTLUG=5D=3A_Rogers_explains_=A1shaping'_policy?= In-Reply-To: <48517206.2090707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <48513C5A.8040301@utoronto.ca> <48514512.6060509@telly.org> <48514938.2010808@rogers.com> <4851639C.6090808@dinamis.com> <48517206.2090707@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: Stephen | If all Rogers is doing is making an asymmetrical partition of bandwidth, so | downloads have much more than uploads, that does not jeopardize their common | carrier status. This has nothing to do with analyzing the data packets. But your premise is wrong. They are not just making an asymmetric partition. They don't announce what they do, and they don't even truthfully answer questions about it, so we depend on observations. Rogers started with throttling BitTorrent traffic specifically. Some BitTorrents then were encrypted as a countermeasure. Then Rogers aparently started throttling encrypted traffic ("kill them all; let God sort them"). See, for example: http://torrentfreak.com/rogers-fighting-bittorrent-by-throttling-all-encrypted-transfers/ If your premise was correct, we would not be complaining! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 21:21:48 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:21:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <20080612152629.GQ31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <20080612005928.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806112133v5d751727s51fdd346692cd928@mail.gmail.com> <20080612152629.GQ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Setting up openswan is generally very very simple. I wish that were true. We tried to make it simple, but it is only simple to someone as knowledgeable as you :-( There are too many things to go wrong in unclear ways in the Linux networking stack. Openswan multiplies this by a small constant factor. I have never tried OpenVPN, so I don't know if or how they avoid these problems. | It also handles all | traffic types well and efficiently (no VPN should EVER use a tcp | connection, so IPsec uses udp). For negotiating, the IKE protocol uses UDP. For transport, IPSec uses ESP (usually), AH (not too often), or UDP (fudge for NAT traversal). | Certainly with a pre shared key, IPsec is trivial. With RSA keys, it's | still pretty simple. When using certificates, IPsec itself is pretty | simple and nice, but generating certificates seems to be an awfully | difficult task. Example of complexity: PSK authentication does not work that well with "Road Warriors". A Road Warrior is a VPN participant that does not have a fixed IP address (see the use of %any your example). The protocol requires the Responder (the non Road Warrior end) to figure out the PSK before knowing the identity of the Road Warrior. So all Road Warriors must have the same PSK. If there are more than one, this is very bad crypto hygiene. RSA Signature authentication does not suffer this problem. But RSA Signature authentication, although part of the standard, is only implemented by *swan (FreeS/WAN, Openswan, StrongS/WAN). So that isn't ideal. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 21:41:55 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:41:55 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=27shaping=27_polic?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?y?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48519823.2060409@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > >From the Globe and Mail: > "Rogers explains ‘shaping' policy" > Network management has been misinterpreted and misunderstood, said Rogers chief strategist Mike Lee > > > > This explanation is defective. > > Clearly they cannot give every user maximum bandwidth all the time -- > they are oversubscribed, and that is a good thing. > > The question is how they should divy up the bandwidth. > > The simplest fair answer is to divide it up by customer, not protocol. > > One could also allow customers declare QoS requests in a way that would not > allow "gaming" of the system. > I've wondered about this too. Ethernet switches generally use some form of "round robin" to ensure all ports can transmit data. This means that if you have a huge pile of data to send, after you send one packet, everyone else gets a chance to send a packet, before you can send a second packet. Now I realize that contention resolution is handled differently in cable modems, but there is such a mechanism to ensure fair access. Why does this not help to ensure fair use? Also, Rogers charges users who go over their allocated data amount. You'd think that might slow down some users. However, I can understand Rogers' concerns about the amount of bandwidth some of those peer-peer services consume. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 21:51:34 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:51:34 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains =?windows-1252?Q?=91shaping=27_pol?= =?windows-1252?Q?icy?= In-Reply-To: <48513C5A.8040301-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <48513C5A.8040301@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <48519A66.4080205@rogers.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Stephen wrote: >> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >>> The question is how they should divy up the bandwidth. >>> >> I thought that this was addressed well. >> >> They divvy up the bandwidth by partitioning the residential bandwidth >> so most is for downloading, >> and little is for uploading. >> >> Most domestic uploading (measured by volume) is file sharing of >> copyrighted videos. >> >> By limiting uploads, they are limiting the amount of this data that >> can enter the Internet "cloud" >> >> This has the consequence of limiting downloads of this data. >> >> Legitimate servers that do not have small upload pipes can feed the >> cloud at much higher transfer >> rates. > > I don't know this site, nor the legitimacy of the numbers, but this > was on slashdot the other day and notes that most bandwidth used > during peak hours is http, specifically related to streaming video: > > http://gigaom.com/2008/04/22/shocking-new-facts-about-p2p-and-broadband-usage/ > > > > # 20 percent of traffic is P2P applications > # During peak-load times, 70 percent of subscribers use http while 20 > percent are using P2P > # Http still makes up the majority of the total traffic, of which 45 > percent is traditional web content that includes text and images. > Streaming video and audio content from services like YouTube accounts > for nearly 50 percent of the http traffic. > > > Limiting upload speeds across the board will be a great way for ISPs > to unwittingly help out recreating the asymmetric relationship (like > television) between users and the media they consume, e.g. slow > posting to youtbe for those who use it etc. > A big factor in this, is how much people are willing to pay for this. There are a couple of technical reasons why it's easier to provide asymmetrical access and while symmetrical service is possible, it has to be paid for some how. So, an ISP has to ask, what works for the majority of users? If most users simply download, why would they pay for a balanced connection? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 21:54:56 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:54:56 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <20080612152629.GQ31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <20080612005928.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806112133v5d751727s51fdd346692cd928@mail.gmail.com> <20080612152629.GQ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <48519B30.8000109@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Setting up openswan is generally very very simple. It also handles all > traffic types well and efficiently (no VPN should EVER use a tcp > connection, so IPsec uses udp). > I agree with this, though sometimes you may have to use TCP. OpenVPN supports both. > Certainly with a pre shared key, IPsec is trivial. With RSA keys, it's > still pretty simple. When using certificates, IPsec itself is pretty > simple and nice, but generating certificates seems to be an awfully > difficult task. > > I have also set up IPsec (on a router, not Linux) with preshared keys and it was not difficult. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 22:00:18 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 18:00:18 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains =?UTF-8?B?4oCYc2hhcGluZycgcG9saWN5?= In-Reply-To: <48514512.6060509-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <48513C5A.8040301@utoronto.ca> <48514512.6060509@telly.org> Message-ID: <48519C72.7040608@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> Limiting upload speeds across the board will be a great way for ISPs >> to unwittingly help out recreating the asymmetric relationship (like >> television) between users and the media they consume, e.g. slow >> posting to youtbe for those who use it etc. >> > > What makes you think this is unintentional? ("unwittingly") > > Rogers owns a number of print and broadcast media outlets and has a > strategic relationship with Yahoo. They have every interest in > maintaining (and indeed enhancing) an asymmetric relationship between > "providers" and "consumers" of data. P2P -- even for > legitimately-copyable content -- blurs the distinction and scares the > crap out of them. > There are also technical reasons why asymmetrical service is easier to provide. One is the amount of bandwidth allocated to upload, bearing in mind this technology was developed long before cable internet access. Another issue is resolving contention between users. When downloading, the data is simply sent out on the wire as quickly as possible. On the upload side, there has to be some method of ensuring all users properly share the available bandwidth. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 22:11:20 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 18:11:20 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains =?UTF-8?B?4oCYc2hhcGluZycgcG9saWN5?= In-Reply-To: <485150F5.6090900-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <485150F5.6090900@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <48519F08.4030000@rogers.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > You sound like a Roger PR guy. > > Stephen wrote: >> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >>> The question is how they should divy up the bandwidth. >>> >> I thought that this was addressed well. >> >> They divvy up the bandwidth by partitioning the residential bandwidth >> so most is for downloading, >> and little is for uploading. > > What is so special about uploaded vs. downloaded packets? Are uploaded > packets "heavier"? Bandwidth is bandwidth. I should be able to specify > the QoS so that I can dynamically allocate the proportion of up/down > rates as my needs change. All Rogers has to tell me is that I can > burst up to some transfer rate. I'll take care of the rest. 1) Most users download far more than they upload, ISPs adjust their network accordingly. 2) Upload bandwidth is in a different part of the spectrum, below the TV channels, where there is less bandwidth available. Download has much more space available. This is determined by filters on the cable plant, which separate the directions. 3) Contention. There has to be some mechanism to ensure fair access for everyone. This results in some inefficiency of the bandwidth use. On the other hand, download data is just sent out as quickly as possible. Points 2 & 3 are caused by the coaxial cable plant, used for the "last mile". They do not apply to the fibre optic cable used for the trunks. Point 2 also applies to ADSL connections. While it is possible to get symmetrical service, it costs more than ADSL and the bandwidth is less than the download ADSL bandwidth. Again this is due to cable limitations. For more info on this, google on DOCSIS specs. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 22:16:11 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 18:16:11 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: <20503.99.253.255.228.1213289491.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20503.99.253.255.228.1213289491.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4851A02B.8000701@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Since we're hammering Rogers in another thread, here's equal time for Bell: > > A friend of mine has DSL service with Sympatico. One day, the service > stops working, so he phones Bell. The service tech asks for the customer > address and says 'Oh, don't worry about the problem'. Then the so-called > tech guy gives my friend a sales pitch on some Bell products. When my > friend gets off the phone, miraculously, the DSL is working again. > > A few weeks later, the same sequence of events. > > Anyone else heard of this? > > Peter > > > Those sales pitches must be almost as bad as listening to hold music when calling in on a cell phone. On the other hand, I find Rogers service failures are rare. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 22:54:25 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 18:54:25 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: <416943.38424.qm-oJ4krsu4Cqb5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <416943.38424.qm@web65604.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4851A921.7000105@rogers.com> Rob Sutherland wrote: > --- Neil Watson wrote: > > >> Incompetence is more likely than conspiracy but >> theories are fun. >> > > Neither is exclusive :-) Bell surely supports multiple > conspiracy and incompetence based crypto-organisms.... > > They're an incompetent conspiracy? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 23:05:24 2008 From: sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: <4851A921.7000105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4851A921.7000105@rogers.com> Message-ID: <961623.35971.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- James Knott wrote: > Rob Sutherland wrote: > > > > Neither is exclusive :-) Bell surely supports > multiple > > conspiracy and incompetence based > crypto-organisms.... > > > > > > They're an incompetent conspiracy? ;-) A conspiracy of incompetents? Maybe someone can call support and ask :-) I honestly can't even talk to them without blowing a gasket... Rob > > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Rob Sutherland 'Would you like fries with that?' -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 23:18:49 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:18:49 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains ???shaping' policy In-Reply-To: <20080612204213.GR31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <485150F5.6090900@dinamis.com> <20080612204213.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4851AED9.6090609@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:38:13PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > >> What is so special about uploaded vs. downloaded packets? Are uploaded >> packets "heavier"? Bandwidth is bandwidth. I should be able to specify >> the QoS so that I can dynamically allocate the proportion of up/down >> rates as my needs change. All Rogers has to tell me is that I can burst >> up to some transfer rate. I'll take care of the rest. >> > > Actually DOCSIS was just misdesigned. The amount of bandwidth allocated > for uploads from customers is much much lower than the bandwidth > allocated for downloads. It is I believe much more asymetric than ADSL. > That's due to the way cable bandwidth was set up, long before there were cable modems. Way back in the B.C (before cable modems) cable TV carried just that TV and did so (with minor variations) using the same spectrum as broadcast TV. That spectrum starts at 54 MHz and goes up from there. Later, when cable companies started getting interested in offering other, interactive, services, they were placed at frequencies below 54 MHz and used filters to separate the two directions. So, anything upstream has to fit in that space below 54 MHz, while downstream can use any part of the spectrum above 54 MHz up to a few hundred MHz. While some of the details have changed since then, the same situation applies, when you try to fit TV and upload data on the same piece of coaxial cable. There isn't much DOCSIS can do about that. This problem does not exist on the fibre part of the network. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 23:35:43 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:35:43 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: Rogers explains =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=27shapin?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?g=27_policy?= In-Reply-To: References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <48513C5A.8040301@utoronto.ca> <48514512.6060509@telly.org> <48514938.2010808@rogers.com> <4851639C.6090808@dinamis.com> <48517206.2090707@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4851B2CF.2030700@rogers.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Stephen > > | If all Rogers is doing is making an asymmetrical partition of bandwidth, so > | downloads have much more than uploads, that does not jeopardize their common > | carrier status. This has nothing to do with analyzing the data packets. > > But your premise is wrong. They are not just making an asymmetric > partition. > > They don't announce what they do, and they don't even truthfully answer > questions about it, so we depend on observations. > > Rogers started with throttling BitTorrent traffic specifically. > > Some BitTorrents then were encrypted as a countermeasure. > > Then Rogers aparently started throttling encrypted traffic ("kill them > all; let God sort them"). > > See, for example: > http://torrentfreak.com/rogers-fighting-bittorrent-by-throttling-all-encrypted-transfers/ > > If your premise was correct, we would not be complaining! > Is that a credible source? How do they know they throttle all encrypted traffic? How does Rogers tell something is encrypted? Not all encryption uses PPTP or IPsec. I regularly use an encrypted VPN between home & work, using OpenVPN. I haven't noticed that being throttled, though I haven't run any bandwidth tests. I suspect the main bottle neck would be the ADSL connection at work, which is nowhere near as fast as my cable modem connection. We also use another VPN (IPsec) between my office and Montreal HQ. Haven't noticed any throttling there either. I ran a bandwidth test on that link a couple of weeks ago and got about 800Kb or the limit imposed by the ADSL upstream. Based on what I've read however, I suspect Bell may be doing more throttling than Rogers. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 12 23:49:48 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:49:48 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: <961623.35971.qm-Q9ppC46l1fv5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <961623.35971.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4851B61C.5030300@rogers.com> Rob Sutherland wrote: > --- James Knott wrote: > > >> Rob Sutherland wrote: >> > > >>> Neither is exclusive :-) Bell surely supports >>> >> multiple >> >>> conspiracy and incompetence based >>> >> crypto-organisms.... >> >>> >>> >> They're an incompetent conspiracy? ;-) >> > > A conspiracy of incompetents? Maybe someone can call > support and ask :-) I honestly can't even talk to them > without blowing a gasket... > I know that feeling all to well. In my work, I occasionally have to deal with the Sympatico "help" desk. I'm hooking up routers (Not those cheap consumer level devices. These ones cost upwards of $2K.) to the ADSL line, but if I don't click on the "Start" button, they won't talk to me. I haven't seen many routers that have a Start button. No point in trying to escalate, as they'll hang up on you for that. What's really surprising is that this work is for business customers, not individual consumers. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 03:12:05 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:12:05 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: <4851B61C.5030300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <961623.35971.qm@web65612.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4851B61C.5030300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <00c601c8cd03$4287c850$c79758f0$@com> Well its happening in the Gas market so why not in the ISP? http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=ab6de8c8-4b4d-46dc-8d8 0-a60027c7d667 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of James > Knott > Sent: June 12, 2008 7:50 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Conspiracy? > > Rob Sutherland wrote: > > --- James Knott wrote: > > > > > >> Rob Sutherland wrote: > >> > > > > > >>> Neither is exclusive :-) Bell surely supports > >>> > >> multiple > >> > >>> conspiracy and incompetence based > >>> > >> crypto-organisms.... > >> > >>> > >>> > >> They're an incompetent conspiracy? ;-) > >> > > > > A conspiracy of incompetents? Maybe someone can call > > support and ask :-) I honestly can't even talk to them > > without blowing a gasket... > > > > I know that feeling all to well. In my work, I occasionally have to > deal with the Sympatico "help" desk. I'm hooking up routers (Not those > cheap consumer level devices. These ones cost upwards of $2K.) to the > ADSL line, but if I don't click on the "Start" button, they won't talk > to me. I haven't seen many routers that have a Start button. No point > in trying to escalate, as they'll hang up on you for that. What's > really surprising is that this work is for business customers, not > individual consumers. > > > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 03:19:41 2008 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:19:41 -0400 Subject: OT: Digital Online Rights / DVD / Cellphone In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880806121312j29f09022m4ff4a3e050ac37d3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880806121312j29f09022m4ff4a3e050ac37d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080612231941.97a9dd99.tleslie@tcn.net> I saw this on the news too. The rule about not knowning "anti-circumvention clause invalidates all the other new provisions" was interesting. Like the DVD crypto crack on linux (mplayer and the like), would be an issue (unless licensed?) but its a joke really and here is why. Play your songs (who cares about the copy protect on it, you only find out about that usually, when you go to copy it, and something senses the copy right bits and gives you a message), so you capture it analogue (like in the 80's!!!!), sure you get a bit of distortion, but ... its perfectly legal!!! putting a auxin 1/8 pin to ipod and grab it, no one can say booo. If you are like me and want perfection , i buy the CD's at play-it-again anyways. but if your not fussy about it, a good analogue capture will be fine. so now, what about video? well fortunately before the BS hdmi with copyright was standardize (or is close ? ), RGB-out is on a lot of units, and may be for some time. just like with the analogue audio case above, if/when a reasonably price RGB HD capture card some out, again, copy right, who cares!, if its on the RGB out, they can't say boooo. again you gain a bit of distortion but, you are legally copying it, even if copy right bits are on the digits version! not sure if macrovision applies any more or on RGB-HD but i circumvented that legally as well anyways :) so hurry up RGB HD capture card manufactures! get a economical one out!! then the new bill has zero bite, in fact, it kinda works out nice, if you know the workarounds :) but if your not a techy, you will have issue, all the manufactures of video product will be arm twisted into enforcing DRM on the I/O of the video (and audio) of the media devices. and a standalone RGB-HD capture device .... i don't know of any for consumer market. For 2K$ there is a good xPCI based ones (pro and pro-sumer). -tl On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:12:46 -0400 "Dave Germiquet" wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > Please see below, its a bit off topic but I'd figure you guys might be > interested if you are unaware. > > There saying if you rip your own bought dvds to ipod format its > illegal and if you have unlocked cellphones . > > > > Check out Online Rights Canada's new action alert, "A Copyright Law > for Canadians": > > http://www.OnlineRights.ca/get_active/copyright_for_canadians/ > > Here's what their website says about it: > > "A new copyright law for Canada is coming. Make sure your MP knows > what's at stake!" > > 621 people have already taken action. Add your voice today! > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 05:05:51 2008 From: tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:05:51 +0200 Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: <20503.99.253.255.228.1213289491.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org's message of "Thu\, 12 Jun 2008 12\:51\:31 -0400 \(EDT\)") References: <20503.99.253.255.228.1213289491.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <87zlppsz4g.fsf@azurservers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org a ?crit profondement: | Since we're hammering Rogers in another thread, here's equal time for Bell: | | A friend of mine has DSL service with Sympatico. One day, the service | stops working, so he phones Bell. The service tech asks for the customer | address and says 'Oh, don't worry about the problem'. Then the so-called | tech guy gives my friend a sales pitch on some Bell products. When my | friend gets off the phone, miraculously, the DSL is working again. | | A few weeks later, the same sequence of events. | Your friend was just being conditioned for the death of the Internet as we know it and the arrival of Internet II which will arrive within the next 4 years or so. The internet is run by Capitalists. Capitalists do not care about the Internet; they only care about making money. Many Internet Capitalists also own Radio Stations, Television Stations, Newspapers, Magazines and similar "mass media" products and services, the revenues from/subscriptions to which have dropped significantly in recent years. Ergo the Internet Capitalists are striking back with their "Pay-per-View" plans. The internet is also unfortunately infested with Copyright violators. Copyright holders do not like their copyrighted material being enjoyed for free by Joe SixPack. Bandwidth throttling, subscriptions and site blocking will help curtail copyright violations despite there being no common-law right to Copyright. The government hates protest against their plans to reduce the average citizen to nothing more than a Slave, or to engage in activities that were determined to be War Crimes at the 1945/6 International Military Tribunal more commenly known as Nuremberg Kangaroo Kourt. Blocking, or more properly never permitting protest sites access to the "New and Improved" Internet II in the first instance, suits them just fine.They will then be able to go ahead with their nefarious plans whilst denying any protest whatsoever. Just think how much coverage last week's Bilderberg Conference received in the MainStream Mass Media Propaganda Mill. Like Warmonger Secretary Gates, Queen of Spain, Queen of Holland and dozens of similar mass murderers, misogynists and/or parasites meeting in one place should have been front page news. ( Full list http://www.infowars.com/?p=2564 ) A casual glance at the list should tell the intelligent reader that the World Currency promoters will be peddling their proposition soon in the so called Free Press and that Iran will most probably be invaded soon. Furthermore it is against the US law for a government official to attend any such meeting as Bilderberg was without express permission from the government. But Bush either connives, is too stupid to realize or simply doesn't care. Now Redmond Gates also hates Piracy and Copyright violation. So he's all in favour of Internet II, particularly if the specs demand that a user register their thumb print before logging on,or even perhaps before they visit each new site. He's been pushing for this for the last ten years to help him peddle his overpriced trashy operating system and accompanying applications; It will be easy. Laptops are already being sold with thumbprint readers installed. So goodbye to free unregulated internet and hello Big Brother Read All About it: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2008/061208_pull_plug.htm Goodbye Free.Fr, the best ISP the world has ever known with a Linux Logo on their site, all in one TV+Telephone(2 numbers)+internet where one is indeed free to do whatever turns their crank. Be it downloading torrents, downloading pr0n from the usenet binary groups, sending spam or just Power Surfing, static IP, reverse lookup and if you can swing it 100 down 50 up fibre optical connections for the same price as adsl. The only downside is that one sometimes make a PBL as a class B or C spammer due to the activities of others, the 28mega line one pays for seldom produces anything approaching that and usually tests out at around 10 and it costs a ridiculous 30? (euros)/month. -- SlackRat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 06:19:01 2008 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. Chipman) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 02:19:01 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: <87zlppsz4g.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <20503.99.253.255.228.1213289491.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <87zlppsz4g.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <20080613021901.40d34be7@david.chipman> Hi SlackRat, Thanks for showing us TLUG's closet-racist/anti-capitalism/anti-Semitic whiner: yourself. Please crawl back under the rock you crawled out from under. -David Chipman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 12:12:09 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:12:09 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <20080612005928.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806112133v5d751727s51fdd346692cd928@mail.gmail.com> <20080612152629.GQ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080613121209.GS31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 05:21:48PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I wish that were true. We tried to make it simple, but it is only > simple to someone as knowledgeable as you :-( It seemed pretty simple the first time I set it up many years ago. > There are too many things to go wrong in unclear ways in the Linux > networking stack. Openswan multiplies this by a small constant > factor. THere are also two ipsec stacks you can use. Netkey in the 2.6 kernel (which I recommend since it is policy based rather than route based) and klips (part of openswan), which is route based (which I don't recommend using). > I have never tried OpenVPN, so I don't know if or how they avoid these > problems. > > For negotiating, the IKE protocol uses UDP. > > For transport, IPSec uses ESP (usually), AH (not too often), or UDP > (fudge for NAT traversal). Right. But they aren't tcp so you aren't imposing dilivery promises on all traffic that didn't ask for it. As far as I have understood, IPsec is a native component of IPv6, so why not start learning about it now. It is really not that complicated. > Example of complexity: > > PSK authentication does not work that well with "Road Warriors". A > Road Warrior is a VPN participant that does not have a fixed IP > address (see the use of %any your example). The protocol requires the > Responder (the non Road Warrior end) to figure out the PSK before > knowing the identity of the Road Warrior. So all Road Warriors must > have the same PSK. If there are more than one, this is very bad > crypto hygiene. I don't actually think openswan will let you use PSK with %any anymore. At least it didn't work when I wanted to do that a month ago. I had to use rsasig (I didn't feel like generating certificates). > RSA Signature authentication does not suffer this problem. But RSA > Signature authentication, although part of the standard, is only > implemented by *swan (FreeS/WAN, Openswan, StrongS/WAN). So that > isn't ideal. Yeah if you want a different client as a road warrier, you need certificates, which are a pain, but once you setup the system to generate certificates it works amazingly well and is very easy for the road warrier to use. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 12:16:24 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:16:24 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains 'shaping' policy In-Reply-To: <48519823.2060409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48519823.2060409@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080613121623.GT31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 05:41:55PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > I've wondered about this too. Ethernet switches generally use some form > of "round robin" to ensure all ports can transmit data. This means that > if you have a huge pile of data to send, after you send one packet, > everyone else gets a chance to send a packet, before you can send a > second packet. Now I realize that contention resolution is handled > differently in cable modems, but there is such a mechanism to ensure > fair access. Why does this not help to ensure fair use? Also, Rogers > charges users who go over their allocated data amount. You'd think that > might slow down some users. However, I can understand Rogers' concerns > about the amount of bandwidth some of those peer-peer services consume. Many protocols have to wait for the acknowledge before sending another chunk of data. Large file transfer generally do not. So you end up with so much file transfer traffic waiting already, that you can long delays between chunks of data on the interactive stuff. Of course there are ways to help that too, such as the ToS values in packets, which are supposed to let you prioritize low volume interactive traffic over high volume bulk traffic, although how many ISPs actually follow those values (since you have to trust that the user's applications mark the packets appropriately) I don't know. Certainly some switches do obey those values to determine what should be forwarded first to a given port as do some routers. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 12:19:55 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:19:55 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains ???shaping' policy In-Reply-To: <48519C72.7040608-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <48513C5A.8040301@utoronto.ca> <48514512.6060509@telly.org> <48519C72.7040608@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080613121955.GU31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 06:00:18PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > There are also technical reasons why asymmetrical service is easier to > provide. One is the amount of bandwidth allocated to upload, bearing in > mind this technology was developed long before cable internet access. > Another issue is resolving contention between users. When downloading, > the data is simply sent out on the wire as quickly as possible. On the > upload side, there has to be some method of ensuring all users properly > share the available bandwidth. Yeah certainly cable modems have a large pipe for downloads shared between all users on a segment, while uploads are in multiple smaller channels. Given not everyone is going to be downloading at the same time, it does mean you get more download than upload speed. For ADSL I am not sure. I don't believe there is any real difference in line quality required for say 5MBit/800kbit ADSL versus 2.2Mbit SDSL, but maybe that isn't true. Of course many people would probably pick the ADSL 5Mbit over the SDSL 2.2Mbit given the choice, while a few would want the SDSL instead. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 12:23:02 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:23:02 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains ???shaping' policy In-Reply-To: <4851AED9.6090609-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <485150F5.6090900@dinamis.com> <20080612204213.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4851AED9.6090609@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080613122302.GV31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 07:18:49PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > That's due to the way cable bandwidth was set up, long before there were > cable modems. Way back in the B.C (before cable modems) cable TV carried > just that TV and did so (with minor variations) using the same spectrum > as broadcast TV. That spectrum starts at 54 MHz and goes up from there. > Later, when cable companies started getting interested in offering > other, interactive, services, they were placed at frequencies below 54 > MHz and used filters to separate the two directions. So, anything > upstream has to fit in that space below 54 MHz, while downstream can use > any part of the spectrum above 54 MHz up to a few hundred MHz. While > some of the details have changed since then, the same situation applies, > when you try to fit TV and upload data on the same piece of coaxial > cable. There isn't much DOCSIS can do about that. This problem does not > exist on the fibre part of the network. Hmm, well they could upgrade all their equipment and start using some bandwidth above the frequencies used by the television, but of course why would they want to spend money on that. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 12:26:07 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:26:07 -0400 Subject: OT: Digital Online Rights / DVD / Cellphone In-Reply-To: <20080612231941.97a9dd99.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880806121312j29f09022m4ff4a3e050ac37d3@mail.gmail.com> <20080612231941.97a9dd99.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20080613122607.GW31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:19:41PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > > I saw this on the news too. > > The rule about not knowning "anti-circumvention clause invalidates all the other new provisions" > was interesting. Like the DVD crypto crack on linux (mplayer and the like), > would be an issue (unless licensed?) > > but its a joke really and here is why. > > Play your songs (who cares about the copy protect on it, you only find out about that usually, when you go to copy it, and something senses the copy right bits and gives you a message), > so you capture it analogue (like in the 80's!!!!), sure you get a bit of distortion, but ... > its perfectly legal!!! putting a auxin 1/8 pin to ipod and grab it, no one can say booo. > If you are like me and want perfection , i buy the CD's at play-it-again anyways. but if your > not fussy about it, a good analogue capture will be fine. > > so now, what about video? > > well fortunately before the BS hdmi with copyright was standardize (or is close ? ), > RGB-out is on a lot of units, and may be for some time. > just like with the analogue audio case above, if/when a reasonably price RGB HD capture > card some out, again, copy right, who cares!, if its on the RGB out, they can't say boooo. > again you gain a bit of distortion but, you are legally copying it, even if copy right bits are on > the digits version! > not sure if macrovision applies any more or on RGB-HD but i circumvented that legally as well anyways :) > > so hurry up RGB HD capture card manufactures! get a economical one out!! > then the new bill has zero bite, in fact, it kinda works out nice, if you know the workarounds :) Well blueray at least allows the disc maker to choose to only permit low resolution output on analog, while full resolution must go through a digital protected channel. So far no one has enabled that option as far as I know, since a number of early adopters of HDTV have HDTVs with only analog (component) inputs, but they do have the option to do it some day. > but if your not a techy, you will have issue, all the manufactures of video product will > be arm twisted into enforcing DRM on the I/O of the video (and audio) of the media devices. > > and a standalone RGB-HD capture device .... i don't know of any for consumer market. > For 2K$ there is a good xPCI based ones (pro and pro-sumer). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 13:46:27 2008 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:46:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers explains ‘shaping' policy In-Reply-To: <48514938.2010808-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48514938.2010808@rogers.com> Message-ID: <659160.24614.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- Stephen wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Rogers owns a number of print and broadcast media outlets and has > a > > strategic relationship with Yahoo. They have every interest in > > maintaining (and indeed enhancing) an asymmetric relationship > between > > "providers" and "consumers" of data. P2P -- even for > > legitimately-copyable content -- blurs the distinction and scares > the > > crap out of them. > > > If we divided the amount of legally copyable data by the amount of > copyrighted data distributed > on P2P networks, I wonder how many decimal points we would need to > go to > before the answer > does not round down to zero? > May be none. People use p2p because it does not need to set up and maintain a server and also it is a give and take rather because the content they distribute is copy-righted. I believe P2P networks will be as relevant as they are in a world with no copyright. Some materials (like songs and video) are better distrbuted on p2p network (from efficiency point of view) even when they are not copy-righted. EK __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 15:42:22 2008 From: sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 08:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Canadian DMCA hitting the mainstream In-Reply-To: <87zlppsz4g.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <87zlppsz4g.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <294873.14713.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Looks like the mainstream media is picking it up. Cory Doctorow... "You have to wonder what they're smoking on Parliament Hill if they think there's this compelling need for DRM, given that the marketplace seems to be rejecting it left, right and centre," he told CBCNews.ca. http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/06/12/tech-copyright.html What DOES Harper smoke? :-) Rob Rob Sutherland 'Would you like fries with that?' -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 15:56:33 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:56:33 -0400 Subject: Canadian DMCA hitting the mainstream In-Reply-To: <294873.14713.qm-Rkon7zXYjjn5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <87zlppsz4g.fsf@azurservers.com> <294873.14713.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 6/13/08, Rob Sutherland wrote: > > > Looks like the mainstream media is picking it up. > > Cory Doctorow... > > "You have to wonder what they're smoking on Parliament > Hill if they think there's this compelling need for > DRM, given that the marketplace seems to be rejecting > it left, right and centre," he told CBCNews.ca. > > http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/06/12/tech-copyright.html > > What DOES Harper smoke? :-) Sad thing is Harper is likely not smoking anything stronger than regular tobacco. Better question would be "What medications is Harper taking and/or what medications should he be on?". Regarding the latest bit of DRM legislation nonsense the government is proposing, I trust folks are getting in touch with their MPs, a list of which can be seen here: webinfo.parl.gc.ca/MembersOfParliament/MainMPsCompleteList.aspx?TimePeriod=Current&Language=E Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 16:32:37 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:32:37 -0400 Subject: Canadian DMCA hitting the mainstream In-Reply-To: References: <87zlppsz4g.fsf@azurservers.com> <294873.14713.qm@web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0806130932r7de7c30eof3ff566dcd514265@mail.gmail.com> Also see here: http://www.copyrightforcanadians.ca/action/firstlook/action.php I might recommend using something a bit more than the provided form-letter though. On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On 6/13/08, Rob Sutherland wrote: >> >> >> Looks like the mainstream media is picking it up. >> >> Cory Doctorow... >> >> "You have to wonder what they're smoking on Parliament >> Hill if they think there's this compelling need for >> DRM, given that the marketplace seems to be rejecting >> it left, right and centre," he told CBCNews.ca. >> >> http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/06/12/tech-copyright.html >> >> What DOES Harper smoke? :-) > > Sad thing is Harper is likely not smoking anything stronger than > regular tobacco. > > Better question would be "What medications is Harper taking and/or > what medications should he be on?". Regarding the latest bit of DRM > legislation nonsense the government is proposing, I trust folks are > getting in touch with their MPs, a list of which can be seen here: > > webinfo.parl.gc.ca/MembersOfParliament/MainMPsCompleteList.aspx?TimePeriod=Current&Language=E > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 16:50:36 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:50:36 -0400 Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Re:_:_Rogers_explains_=91shaping'_policy?= In-Reply-To: <48514938.2010808-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <48513C5A.8040301@utoronto.ca> <48514512.6060509@telly.org> <48514938.2010808@rogers.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0806130950g576bce6n4293bf8f210c286e@mail.gmail.com> Not very far. The legitimate content isn't just restricted to Linux ISO's and freely provided music, you know. Some MMORPG's, including I believe WoW, use bittorrent/P2P-like technology for providing updates. As WoW was at 9.3 subscribers as long as 6 months ago, I'd say that's a lot of people making a legitimate use of the P2P technology (even though many are probably unaware of how it works). For myself, I'm a DSL user, but with a similar situation. In their attempt to cover possible avenues of evading their filters, Bell (though I'm a third-party customer) has been noticeably shaping traffic in ways that adversely affect not just P2P, but various forms of other traffic as well (for example, my encrypted IMAP connect to my mailserver). That means that during the day when the shaping is in place, grabbing my home email from work is a hugely slow pain in the ass. I've heard many others complaining of similar issues with Rogers, as their aggressive shaping/filtering does collateral damage to other traffic. On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:05 PM, Stephen wrote: > Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> >> Rogers owns a number of print and broadcast media outlets and has a >> strategic relationship with Yahoo. They have every interest in >> maintaining (and indeed enhancing) an asymmetric relationship between >> "providers" and "consumers" of data. P2P -- even for >> legitimately-copyable content -- blurs the distinction and scares the >> crap out of them. >> > > If we divided the amount of legally copyable data by the amount of > copyrighted data distributed > on P2P networks, I wonder how many decimal points we would need to go to > before the answer > does not round down to zero? > > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 18:06:56 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:06:56 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains 'shaping' policy In-Reply-To: <20080613121623.GT31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48519823.2060409@rogers.com> <20080613121623.GT31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4852B740.4020300@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 05:41:55PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> I've wondered about this too. Ethernet switches generally use some form >> of "round robin" to ensure all ports can transmit data. This means that >> if you have a huge pile of data to send, after you send one packet, >> everyone else gets a chance to send a packet, before you can send a >> second packet. Now I realize that contention resolution is handled >> differently in cable modems, but there is such a mechanism to ensure >> fair access. Why does this not help to ensure fair use? Also, Rogers >> charges users who go over their allocated data amount. You'd think that >> might slow down some users. However, I can understand Rogers' concerns >> about the amount of bandwidth some of those peer-peer services consume. > > Many protocols have to wait for the acknowledge before sending another > chunk of data. Large file transfer generally do not. So you end up > with so much file transfer traffic waiting already, that you can long > delays between chunks of data on the interactive stuff. > With TCP, the receive window limits the amount of outstanding unacknowledged data. However, that's got nothing to do with what I described above. The networking hardware can limit how much data is sent, before the next user(s) is given a chance. This means that no matter how much data someone wants to send, they still have to wait for other users. So, with an ethernet switch, one frame from the heavy user can be sent, then all other users get a chance to send a frame, if available and then the heavy user gets another shot etc. If the other users have little to send, then the heavy user gets most of the bandwidth. If the other users have lots of traffic, then the heavy user gets only a smaller part of the available bandwidth. > Of course there are ways to help that too, such as the ToS values in > packets, which are supposed to let you prioritize low volume interactive > traffic over high volume bulk traffic, although how many ISPs actually > follow those values (since you have to trust that the user's > applications mark the packets appropriately) I don't know. Certainly > some switches do obey those values to determine what should be forwarded > first to a given port as do some routers. > The current term is QoS for quality of service. The old ToS byte is now used for "Differentiated Services Code Point" (DSCP), which can be used for priority. So you'd give things such as VoIP a higher priority than email or file transfer. However, to do this, all the equipment has to support it. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 18:27:45 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:27:45 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains ???shaping' policy In-Reply-To: <20080613121955.GU31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <48513C5A.8040301@utoronto.ca> <48514512.6060509@telly.org> <48519C72.7040608@rogers.com> <20080613121955.GU31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4852BC21.1030609@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 06:00:18PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> There are also technical reasons why asymmetrical service is easier to >> provide. One is the amount of bandwidth allocated to upload, bearing in >> mind this technology was developed long before cable internet access. >> Another issue is resolving contention between users. When downloading, >> the data is simply sent out on the wire as quickly as possible. On the >> upload side, there has to be some method of ensuring all users properly >> share the available bandwidth. > > Yeah certainly cable modems have a large pipe for downloads shared > between all users on a segment, while uploads are in multiple smaller > channels. Given not everyone is going to be downloading at the same > time, it does mean you get more download than upload speed. > > For ADSL I am not sure. I don't believe there is any real difference in > line quality required for say 5MBit/800kbit ADSL versus 2.2Mbit SDSL, > but maybe that isn't true. Of course many people would probably pick > the ADSL 5Mbit over the SDSL 2.2Mbit given the choice, while a few would > want the SDSL instead. > ADSL splits the spectrum used into upload and download directions (similar to what cable modems do), whereas SHDSL uses echo cancellation so that both directions use the same spectrum. However, that method is also more expensive than the simple filters used within the ADSL modem, which are not the same filters as used to separate regular phone service from ADSL. The available bandwidth for either is dependent on cable distance and quality. You can also get SHDSL sets that support multiple pairs, for increased bandwidth adn reliability. I've never seen that with ADSL, though technically, it's certainly possible. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 18:30:51 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:30:51 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains ???shaping' policy In-Reply-To: <20080613122302.GV31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48513639.9010600@rogers.com> <485150F5.6090900@dinamis.com> <20080612204213.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4851AED9.6090609@rogers.com> <20080613122302.GV31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4852BCDB.7050604@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 07:18:49PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> That's due to the way cable bandwidth was set up, long before there were >> cable modems. Way back in the B.C (before cable modems) cable TV carried >> just that TV and did so (with minor variations) using the same spectrum >> as broadcast TV. That spectrum starts at 54 MHz and goes up from there. >> Later, when cable companies started getting interested in offering >> other, interactive, services, they were placed at frequencies below 54 >> MHz and used filters to separate the two directions. So, anything >> upstream has to fit in that space below 54 MHz, while downstream can use >> any part of the spectrum above 54 MHz up to a few hundred MHz. While >> some of the details have changed since then, the same situation applies, >> when you try to fit TV and upload data on the same piece of coaxial >> cable. There isn't much DOCSIS can do about that. This problem does not >> exist on the fibre part of the network. > > Hmm, well they could upgrade all their equipment and start using some > bandwidth above the frequencies used by the television, but of course > why would they want to spend money on that. :) > That would involve replacing all the coaxial cables. Fibre to the home or at least curb would be necessary and then you'd need new converter boxes, TVs etc., to work with the new system. Also the usable spectrum is determined by cable losses. The higher the frequency, the greater the signal loss. The long term fix is fibre, the short term??? -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 18:37:28 2008 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:37:28 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains ???shaping' policy In-Reply-To: <4852BCDB.7050604-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080613122302.GV31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4852BCDB.7050604@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200806131437.28368.dbmacg@look.ca> How much of the network is fibre already? On Friday 13 June 2008 14:30:51 James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 07:18:49PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> That's due to the way cable bandwidth was set up, long before there were > >> cable modems. Way back in the B.C (before cable modems) cable TV carried > >> just that TV and did so (with minor variations) using the same spectrum > >> as broadcast TV. That spectrum starts at 54 MHz and goes up from there. > >> Later, when cable companies started getting interested in offering > >> other, interactive, services, they were placed at frequencies below 54 > >> MHz and used filters to separate the two directions. So, anything > >> upstream has to fit in that space below 54 MHz, while downstream can use > >> any part of the spectrum above 54 MHz up to a few hundred MHz. While > >> some of the details have changed since then, the same situation applies, > >> when you try to fit TV and upload data on the same piece of coaxial > >> cable. There isn't much DOCSIS can do about that. This problem does not > >> exist on the fibre part of the network. > > > > Hmm, well they could upgrade all their equipment and start using some > > bandwidth above the frequencies used by the television, but of course > > why would they want to spend money on that. :) > > That would involve replacing all the coaxial cables. Fibre to the home > or at least curb would be necessary and then you'd need new converter > boxes, TVs etc., to work with the new system. Also the usable spectrum > is determined by cable losses. The higher the frequency, the greater > the signal loss. The long term fix is fibre, the short term??? -- Duncan MacGregor --- Toronto --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 19:21:34 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:21:34 -0400 Subject: Rogers explains ???shaping' policy In-Reply-To: <200806131437.28368.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> References: <20080613122302.GV31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4852BCDB.7050604@rogers.com> <200806131437.28368.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <4852C8BE.5070405@rogers.com> Duncan MacGregor wrote: > How much of the network is fibre already? You'd have to ask Rogers that. However, as I understand it, the main trunks are fibre, with coaxial cable used to distribute to the homes. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 19:59:01 2008 From: tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:59:01 +0200 Subject: Rogers explains ???shaping' policy In-Reply-To: <200806131437.28368.dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM@public.gmane.org> (Duncan MacGregor's message of "Fri\, 13 Jun 2008 14\:37\:28 -0400") References: <20080613122302.GV31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4852BCDB.7050604@rogers.com> <200806131437.28368.dbmacg@look.ca> Message-ID: <87od65rtru.fsf@azurservers.com> Duncan MacGregor a ?crit profondement: | How much of the network is fibre already? | I'm not entirely sure how much of France T?l?com's network is Fibre Optic, but there does seem to be some reticence on the part of financial analysts to give their blessing to the new technology. But France T?l?com seem committed to the project which is called DORA (Deploiement de l'Optique dans le Reseau Acces) There is an article from a year or so back on the subject here: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/22/bloomberg/bxftel.php -- SlackRat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 20:14:53 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: <20080613021901.40d34be7-lQMCrfjKGrJ3Ex1Y5TzZUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20503.99.253.255.228.1213289491.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <87zlppsz4g.fsf@azurservers.com> <20080613021901.40d34be7@david.chipman> Message-ID: | From: David C. Chipman | Hi SlackRat, | | Thanks for showing us TLUG's | closet-racist/anti-capitalism/anti-Semitic whiner: yourself. Please | crawl back under the rock you crawled out from under. Sorry, I need an interpreter. I got the anti-capitalism. Can you indicate the closet-racist and anti-Semitic parts of SlackRat's message? (Sadly, I don' think that this is completely off-topic. There are a lot of political things that are intersecting with Linux. Mind you, the creation of the GPL was intentionally political.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 20:48:43 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:48:43 -0400 Subject: Kickstart frustrations take 3, copying files from the source CD Message-ID: <4852DD2B.7090502@alteeve.com> There seems to be no clear docs on how to copy files from the install media using kickstart in the %post section... I'm hoping someone here can help. :) I've got a custom CentOS 4.6 install DVD with a kickstart script and an added directory (cdrom:/foo) with a pile of files I need to copy to the hard drive. I've tried: %post cp -Rp /foo /root/ Nope %post cp -Rp /mnt/source/foo /root/ Nope %post mkdir /mnt/cdrom mkdir -t iso9660 /tmp/cdrom /mnt/cdrom cp -Rp /mnt/cdrom/foo /root/ Nope Can someone pull out the clue stick and beat me with it? It'd be much appreciated! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 21:27:48 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:27:48 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: References: <20503.99.253.255.228.1213289491.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <87zlppsz4g.fsf@azurservers.com> <20080613021901.40d34be7@david.chipman> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 4:14 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: David C. Chipman > > | Hi SlackRat, > | > | Thanks for showing us TLUG's > | closet-racist/anti-capitalism/anti-Semitic whiner: yourself. Please > | crawl back under the rock you crawled out from under. > > Sorry, I need an interpreter. > > I got the anti-capitalism. > > Can you indicate the closet-racist and anti-Semitic parts of > SlackRat's message? Well, the line about the "Nuremburg Kangaroo Court" seems not *overly* cryptic. I'm never quite sure how to characterize comments about the Bilderberg summits; people that get exercised about it seem to crawl out from under rocks that can involve a number of different sorts of paranoia, including paranoia at both the extreme left and right wings of the bird. But putting them together focuses the smell a lot like the cases where "International Bankers" is a misspelling of "International Banksters" which is intended as a very-slightly-cryptic way to say "Jews" (in a manner rife with antisemitic assumptions). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 14 02:16:33 2008 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:16:33 -0400 Subject: Kickstart frustrations take 3, copying files from the source CD In-Reply-To: <4852DD2B.7090502-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4852DD2B.7090502@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200806132216.33394.fraser@wehave.net> On Friday 13 June 2008 16:48:43 Madison Kelly wrote: > ? ?There seems to be no clear docs on how to copy files from the install > media using kickstart in the %post section... I'm hoping someone here > can help. :) I too am about to go down this path, poor servers without network connections. I think nochroot option to post will help but I haven't tried yet ... you should be able to chroot within your post script for things that need it. -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 14 04:21:45 2008 From: dchipman-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org (David C. Chipman) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 00:21:45 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: References: <20503.99.253.255.228.1213289491.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <87zlppsz4g.fsf@azurservers.com> <20080613021901.40d34be7@david.chipman> Message-ID: <20080614002145.19b414cb@david.chipman> Hi Cris, I'm sorry I wasn't too clear. I felt too angry reading that email from Slackrat to take the time to go into detail. It seemed like he started off well, but then went off the rails. It was the off he rails part I was commenting on. Sorry all, -David Chipman > Well, the line about the "Nuremburg Kangaroo Court" seems not > *overly* cryptic. > > I'm never quite sure how to characterize comments about the Bilderberg > summits; people that get exercised about it seem to crawl out from > under rocks that can involve a number of different sorts of paranoia, > including paranoia at both the extreme left and right wings of the > bird. > > But putting them together focuses the smell a lot like the cases where > "International Bankers" is a misspelling of "International Banksters" > which is intended as a very-slightly-cryptic way to say "Jews" (in a > manner rife with antisemitic assumptions). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 14 06:21:46 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 02:21:46 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: <87zlppsz4g.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <20503.99.253.255.228.1213289491.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <87zlppsz4g.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <4853637A.2010107@telly.org> Slackrat wrote: > The government hates protest against their plans to reduce the average > citizen to nothing more than a Slave, or to engage in activities that > were determined to be War Crimes at the 1945/6 International Military > Tribunal more commenly known as Nuremberg Kangaroo Kourt. > I think this is sufficiently close to allow invoking Godwin's Law. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 14 06:57:56 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 02:57:56 -0400 Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: References: <20503.99.253.255.228.1213289491.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <87zlppsz4g.fsf@azurservers.com> <20080613021901.40d34be7@david.chipman> Message-ID: <20080614025756.712d7199@node1.freeyourmachine.org> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: David C. Chipman > > | Hi SlackRat, > | > | Thanks for showing us TLUG's > | closet-racist/anti-capitalism/anti-Semitic whiner: yourself. Please > | crawl back under the rock you crawled out from under. > > Sorry, I need an interpreter. > > I got the anti-capitalism. > > Can you indicate the closet-racist and anti-Semitic parts of > SlackRat's message? > > (Sadly, I don' think that this is completely off-topic. There are a > lot of political things that are intersecting with Linux. Mind you, > the creation of the GPL was intentionally political.) I had the same reaction, but I thought I would wait and see what others reactions were. In fact, I saw the connections that Slackrat was, I think, trying to make. There is definitely a pattern of lack of due process visible in the way decisions are made, and Bilderberg is a good example of that. Being curious about gatherings of ridiculously influential people who then refuse to discuss their conclusions is perfectly rational. These Plutocrats aren't just deciding what to order for dinner, their 'discussions' could potentially impact millions or even billions of people. To me, not being curious about this is completely _irrational_. Further, accusing someone of being 'anti-Semitic' is a fairly serious charge. In this case, the charge is based a logical fallacy: that calling Nuremburg a 'kangaroo court' means one sympathises with the Nazis. This smacks of the same kind of nonsense that labels me a terrorist if I dare to speak out against the illegal detentions at Guantanamo. Finally, being anti-Capitalist does not make one a loon, or 'off the rails' as someone put it. All Slackrat pointed out was the clear and obvious motivations of those who make idiotic decisons like the throttling of encrypted network traffic or our new Copyright legislation: money. It's amazing to me to see how criticizing Capitalism has become so Politically Incorrect over the last 20 years. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Are you all right?" -Leela "Ah, it's nothing a a law suit won't cure." -Bender -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 14 11:20:51 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:20:51 -0400 Subject: Kickstart frustrations take 3, copying files from the source CD In-Reply-To: <200806132216.33394.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <4852DD2B.7090502@alteeve.com> <200806132216.33394.fraser@wehave.net> Message-ID: <4853A993.1030503@alteeve.com> Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Friday 13 June 2008 16:48:43 Madison Kelly wrote: > >> There seems to be no clear docs on how to copy files from the install >> media using kickstart in the %post section... I'm hoping someone here >> can help. :) > > I too am about to go down this path, poor servers without network connections. > > I think nochroot option to post will help but I haven't tried yet ... you > should be able to chroot within your post script for things that need it. > As I understand, the '--nochroot' option changes where the destination files are. The real location of the root directory is '/mnt/sysimage', but when under the chroot environment that %post runs under, it looks like it's actually on '/', so install scripts and what not find files where they expect them to be. My problem is figuring out how to get files off the DVD during the %post section. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 14 19:53:20 2008 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:53:20 -0400 Subject: Kickstart frustrations take 3, copying files from the source CD In-Reply-To: <4853A993.1030503-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4852DD2B.7090502@alteeve.com> <200806132216.33394.fraser@wehave.net> <4853A993.1030503@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200806141553.20856.fraser@wehave.net> On Saturday 14 June 2008 07:20:51 Madison Kelly wrote: > > I think nochroot option to post will help but I haven't tried yet ... you > > should be able to chroot within your post script for things that need it. > > As I understand, the '--nochroot' option changes where the destination > files are. The real location of the root directory is '/mnt/sysimage', > but when under the chroot environment that %post runs under, it looks > like it's actually on '/', so install scripts and what not find files > where they expect them to be. > > My problem is figuring out how to get files off the DVD during the %post > section. This is what I was thinking ... Put your post script on the CD along with the rest of the content you want to copy. Something like this (sorry I'm hazy on the paths): %post --nochroot cp /mnt/sysimage/whole_bunch_of_files.tar.gz /mnt/target/tmp cp /mnt/sysimage/post.sh /mnt/target/tmp # Chroot into /mnt/sysimage and run post install script chroot /mnt/sysimage /tmp/post.sh This way post.sh will run with / set to your real disk and you will find whole_bunch_of_files.tar.gz under your real /tmp from where you can do anything you like. -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 14 20:23:56 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:23:56 -0400 Subject: Kickstart frustrations take 3, copying files from the source CD In-Reply-To: <200806141553.20856.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <4852DD2B.7090502@alteeve.com> <200806132216.33394.fraser@wehave.net> <4853A993.1030503@alteeve.com> <200806141553.20856.fraser@wehave.net> Message-ID: <485428DC.3050601@alteeve.com> Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Saturday 14 June 2008 07:20:51 Madison Kelly wrote: > >>> I think nochroot option to post will help but I haven't tried yet ... you >>> should be able to chroot within your post script for things that need it. >> As I understand, the '--nochroot' option changes where the destination >> files are. The real location of the root directory is '/mnt/sysimage', >> but when under the chroot environment that %post runs under, it looks >> like it's actually on '/', so install scripts and what not find files >> where they expect them to be. >> >> My problem is figuring out how to get files off the DVD during the %post >> section. > > This is what I was thinking ... > > Put your post script on the CD along with the rest of the content you want to > copy. Something like this (sorry I'm hazy on the paths): > > %post --nochroot > cp /mnt/sysimage/whole_bunch_of_files.tar.gz /mnt/target/tmp > cp /mnt/sysimage/post.sh /mnt/target/tmp > > # Chroot into /mnt/sysimage and run post install script > chroot /mnt/sysimage /tmp/post.sh > > This way post.sh will run with / set to your real disk and you will find > whole_bunch_of_files.tar.gz under your real /tmp from where you can do > anything you like. > The problem is getting the files off the DVD in the first place. While the install is running, I can go to the shell and see the directory in '/mnt/source/foo', but when I try to copy from there in %post, it's gone. 'chroot' doesn't effect this, does it? Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 06:21:40 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:21:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2008, Ian Petersen wrote: > We went ahead and created a Slicehost account and it's configured with > Debian Etch. I've secured it as best I know how and intend to spend > Fathers' Day making OpenVPN work on the Debian machine and on a > machine at my father's house. I realized, though, that my cursory > understanding of TCP/IP routing might be getting in my way here. I > was expecting to configure his mail server to use the Debian machine > as the default gateway (ie. the mail server would get to the internet > by going across the VPN and out the Debian machine), and have the > Debian machine port-forward the incoming mail port (25?) directly to > his mail server. I figured this would be a minimally-invasive change > to his network settings and should "just work". I realized, though, > that it may not be so simple because whichever machine is running the > OpenVPN connection needs to know to use the Rogers cable modem as the > default gateway in order to get the tunneled packets out to the > internet in the first place, and you can't have two default gateways. > > Can someone here suggest a solution? What I'd like is for my father's > DNS records to have the Debian machine's IP in their MX records, and Hi Ian. I do this sort of thing quite a lot. There are lots of options (as we can see from the list) but below is my preferred approach. You mention that your dad wants the data stored on MS-Exchange locally but this doesn't preclude running an MTA on your Linux box. Here is how : do this: For purposes of the discussion I'm going to call the MS-Windows server mickey and the Linux box minnie. mickey runs MS-Exchange, and is an OpenVPN client. minnie runs Postfix and is the OpenVPN server OpenVPN provides you with a new network interface and can be thought of as a very long ethernet cable. Use routing mode for OpenVPN and assign a subnet for OpenVPN clients that is different from your lan. Let's say for arguments sake that 192.168.18.0/24 is your lan and 192.168.19.0/24 is for the VPN. Postfix runs on minnie as a mail relay. It receives mail from any address runs anti-spam, anti-virus, etc. It passes legit mail on to the MS-Exchange box. Note: minnie needs to reject mail that will be undeliverable before passing it on to avoid backscatter. A common solution is to deliver the mail on minnie and pop it over to the VPN - in your case to the MS-Exchange box. The mail can be passed via SMTP if that is preferred. Running a Postfix gateway like this offers a number of advantages. You can avoid direct exposure of MS-Exchange to the 'net and can also run your anti-virus, etc on Linux. Outbound mail is sent from MS-Exchange over the VPN and relays via minnie. MS-Exchange has minnie set as a smarthost/relayhost/whatever they call it. If his home-office goes off-air then inbound mail will queue upstream on minnie. Now it seems like he may have been insisting that mail never queues anywhere except his local box (unless I misunderstood). If this is true then it is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how SMTP works. Mail destined for his server could queue in any number of places and he wouldn't know[1] [1] Post delivery you could check the headers if you really cared. You could use iptables to do DNAT or even an OpenSSH tunnel but the real solution IMHO is to have a Postfix installation hiding his MS-Exchange box from the world. It's late and I wrote this very quickly. Sorry if it isn't clear. Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 13 06:26:43 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:26:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <20080612005928.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806112133v5d751727s51fdd346692cd928@mail.gmail.com> <20080612152629.GQ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > There are too many things to go wrong in unclear ways in the Linux > networking stack. Openswan multiplies this by a small constant > factor. I used to use IPSec. I encountered OS interoperability issues although these have probably improved. > I have never tried OpenVPN, so I don't know if or how they avoid these > problems. One day I tried OpenVPN. I haven't touched IPSec since. Really. > | It also handles all > | traffic types well and efficiently (no VPN should EVER use a tcp > | connection, so IPsec uses udp). > > For negotiating, the IKE protocol uses UDP. > > For transport, IPSec uses ESP (usually), AH (not too often), or UDP > (fudge for NAT traversal). OpenVPN uses UDP by default but can use TCP. Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 15 17:57:56 2008 From: sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Conspiracy? In-Reply-To: <20080614025756.712d7199-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <20080614025756.712d7199@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <684503.29796.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- JoeHill wrote: > Further, accusing someone of being 'anti-Semitic' is > a fairly serious charge. > In this case, the charge is based a logical fallacy: > that calling Nuremburg a > 'kangaroo court' means one sympathises with the > Nazis. This smacks of the same > kind of nonsense that labels me a terrorist if I > dare to speak out against the > illegal detentions at Guantanamo. > Hear, hear. I don't see that these accusations are justified by the original post. IMHO, an apology is in order. > Finally, being anti-Capitalist does not make one a > loon, or 'off the rails' as Ack. > It's amazing to me to see how criticizing Capitalism > has become so Politically > Incorrect over the last 20 years. Why it seems pretty obvious to me - now that the boomers are holding more/most of the capital it's become the fashion to see things like Enrons little romp through the energy markets as intelligent and daring rather than greedy and stupid. Rob Rob Sutherland 'Would you like fries with that?' -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 15 22:14:13 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: $ set | wc Message-ID: On RHL 8.0: $ set | wc 50 65 1635 On CentOS 5.1: $ set | wc 66 87 2004 On Fedora 9: $ set | wc 198 396 7673 On Ubuntu 8.04: $ set | wc 5387 15887 163089 This seems to be getting out of hand. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 15 22:31:44 2008 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: $ set | wcy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Jun 2008, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > On RHL 8.0: > $ set | wc > 50 65 1635 > > On CentOS 5.1: > $ set | wc > 66 87 2004 > > On Fedora 9: > $ set | wc > 198 396 7673 > > On Ubuntu 8.04: > $ set | wc > 5387 15887 163089 > > This seems to be getting out of hand. Much of it is bash completion. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 01:57:29 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:57:29 -0400 Subject: Low power low end cheap server Message-ID: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230@mail.gmail.com> I want to set up a computer for file storage, accessible via VPN. I want it to consume very little power (I'm going to have it running always-on and at home), and it doesn't need much horsepower or memory but does need file space. I thought initially I would use a DecTOP (https://store.dataevolution.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DT-7001) but it has no ethernet, a 10GB HD, only 128Mb memory (I know I said it didn't need much memory, but that's _very_ low), and USB 1.1. By the time you put in a new HD and remedy the ethernet, HD, and possibly the RAM issues you might as well have started with a more expensive base. mini-itx looks good, but seems hard to buy and build a full system in Canada - especially cheaply. Required: - ~750Gb 3.5" HD (not laptop, too expensive) - pref SATA, but not essential - 100Mb+ ethernet - Linux-compatible - processor/memory capable of running OpenVPN and SSH and handling maybe two simultaneous clients - USB 2.0 - basic video (it will run headless, but for the install and debugging ...) Desirable elements: - under $350 - power consumption in the 10-15w range - very small case - i386 compatibility - no power brick (but I could live with that) - very quiet If the price or power consumption of any such solution is significantly higher than I'm hoping for the likeliest next choice will be to recycle one of the many old comps around my house and just throw a big hard drive in it. Suggestions? -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 02:09:01 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:09:01 -0400 Subject: $ set | wc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1213582141.14318.7.camel@aragorn> Funny. My numbers for Ubuntu 8.04 are 196 525 5425 for "set | wc" It seems that one of the things "set" does in define all of the bash-defined functions in the shell (including mine), not just environment variables. Paul On Sun, 2008-06-15 at 18:14 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > On RHL 8.0: > $ set | wc > 50 65 1635 > > On CentOS 5.1: > $ set | wc > 66 87 2004 > > On Fedora 9: > $ set | wc > 198 396 7673 > > On Ubuntu 8.04: > $ set | wc > 5387 15887 163089 > > This seems to be getting out of hand. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > l -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 02:17:01 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:17:01 -0400 Subject: Low power low end cheap server In-Reply-To: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1213582621.28743.142.camel@leon> On Sun, 2008-06-15 at 21:57 -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > I want to set up a computer for file storage, accessible via VPN. I > want it to consume very little power (I'm going to have it running > always-on and at home), and it doesn't need much horsepower or memory > but does need file space. Hi. How about a wireless router, with built-in USB? Then add SB hard drives to the capacity you require? An ASUS WL-500g Premium comes with 2 USB ports, and a 12.5 power brick. Turn off the wireless if you don't need it to reduce power consumption. The USB hard drives will spin down to save power when not in use. Have the VPN endpoint at your firewall, or on another device in your network. Or, replace the default firmware with OpenWRT, and add OpenVPN to the router. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 02:51:08 2008 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:51:08 -0400 Subject: $ set | wc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200806152251.08646.fraser@wehave.net> On Sunday 15 June 2008 18:14:13 D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > On Ubuntu 8.04: > $ set | wc > 5387 15887 163089 > > This seems to be getting out of hand. Odd, as root I get: 55 82 2230 Under my user account I get: 93 132 3470 I believe I have a fairly beefy install (2,540 packages). -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 02:52:07 2008 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:52:07 -0400 Subject: $ set | wc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200806152252.07680.fraser@wehave.net> On Sunday 15 June 2008 18:14:13 D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > On Ubuntu 8.04: > $ set | wc > 5387 15887 163089 > > This seems to be getting out of hand. Odd, as root I get: 55 82 2230 Under my user account I get: 93 132 3470 I believe I have a fairly beefy install (2,540 packages). -- Fraser Campbell Georgetown, Ontario, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 03:07:11 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 23:07:11 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420806152007x36f73034sc5065cd88dafb403@mail.gmail.com> First, thanks to everyone. I spent several Fathers' Day hours with my dad tonight, working on getting a VPN connection up between his Exchange server and his new VPS. Things went pretty well, but there's some debugging to do on his end of the VPN, so I'll be going back to his place tomorrow night. On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:21 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: > It's late and I wrote this very quickly. Sorry if it isn't clear. It was very clear, but I didn't get that far. I've got OpenVPN running in server mode on the VPS, and I thought I had it running in client mode on the Exchange server, but starting it on the Exchange server produces errors in the log file. I hope to get things working tomorrow night, and then I'll move on to setting up an MTA. Speaking of the MTA, thanks, Jamon--that HowtoForge link looks very promising. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 09:38:57 2008 From: linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kamran) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:38:57 -0400 Subject: Laptop Repair Centre Message-ID: <485634B1.5060602@gmail.com> Can anyone recommend a laptop repair centre, preferably one that specializes in Thinkpads. I need a minor repair that is going to require soldering. Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 13:15:51 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:15:51 -0400 Subject: $ set | wc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080616131551.GX31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 06:14:13PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > On RHL 8.0: > $ set | wc > 50 65 1635 > > On CentOS 5.1: > $ set | wc > 66 87 2004 > > On Fedora 9: > $ set | wc > 198 396 7673 > > On Ubuntu 8.04: > $ set | wc > 5387 15887 163089 I think that one must have bash completions enabled, since that ends up defining many functions, where one function can easily be 10 to 20 lines long, which really obscures the amount of data you have in set. > This seems to be getting out of hand. The bash completions are pretty handy actualy and probably worth some environment space. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 13:29:03 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:29:03 -0400 Subject: Low power low end cheap server In-Reply-To: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080616132903.GY31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 09:57:29PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > I want to set up a computer for file storage, accessible via VPN. I > want it to consume very little power (I'm going to have it running > always-on and at home), and it doesn't need much horsepower or memory > but does need file space. I thought initially I would use a DecTOP > (https://store.dataevolution.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DT-7001) > but it has no ethernet, a 10GB HD, only 128Mb memory (I know I said it > didn't need much memory, but that's _very_ low), and USB 1.1. By the > time you put in a new HD and remedy the ethernet, HD, and possibly the > RAM issues you might as well have started with a more expensive base. > mini-itx looks good, but seems hard to buy and build a full system in > Canada - especially cheaply. > > Required: > - ~750Gb 3.5" HD (not laptop, too expensive) - pref SATA, but not essential > - 100Mb+ ethernet > - Linux-compatible > - processor/memory capable of running OpenVPN and SSH and handling > maybe two simultaneous clients I suspect that part shouldn't be a problem to handle for any modern CPU even if it is low power. > - USB 2.0 > - basic video (it will run headless, but for the install and debugging ...) > > Desirable elements: > - under $350 > - power consumption in the 10-15w range A typical harddrive uses about 9W in operation. Laptop drives probably half that. I think your power budget is unrealistic unless you are willing to spend more money on solid state disks or at least laptop drives. > - very small case > - i386 compatibility > - no power brick (but I could live with that) > - very quiet > > If the price or power consumption of any such solution is > significantly higher than I'm hoping for the likeliest next choice > will be to recycle one of the many old comps around my house and just > throw a big hard drive in it. > > Suggestions? Well something like this might be close to what you want: http://www.goodcleantech.com/2008/02/build_your_own_ultralowpower_p.php With a harddrive it uses about 23W full out, and about 12W idle apparantly, and it has 100Mbit ethernet, VGA, etc. No SATA, only IDE unfortunately. It also has a power brick. The price seems about right for what you wanted too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 13:29:56 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:29:56 -0400 Subject: Low power low end cheap server In-Reply-To: <1213582621.28743.142.camel@leon> References: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230@mail.gmail.com> <1213582621.28743.142.camel@leon> Message-ID: <20080616132956.GZ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 10:17:01PM -0400, Richard Weait wrote: > How about a wireless router, with built-in USB? Then add SB hard drives > to the capacity you require? > > An ASUS WL-500g Premium comes with 2 USB ports, and a 12.5 power brick. > Turn off the wireless if you don't need it to reduce power consumption. > The USB hard drives will spin down to save power when not in use. Have > the VPN endpoint at your firewall, or on another device in your network. > Or, replace the default firmware with OpenWRT, and add OpenVPN to the > router. The USB harddrive also has a power brick and uses another 10W or so. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 14:05:08 2008 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? Message-ID: Hi All, I'm just trying to set up ubuntu on the Asus EE. With just 4 GB hard-drive I'm not able to install all the programs I need even after moving my own files to the external SD drive. To resolve this I was thinking of also moving some of the system file directories to the SD drive, but want to be sure that the ones I move are non-critical ones, so that I could boot and have basic functionality without the SD card. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should (or shouldn't) move over to the SD card? Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 14:13:53 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:13:53 -0400 Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48567521.3070907@utoronto.ca> Alex Maynard wrote: > > Hi All, > > I'm just trying to set up ubuntu on the Asus EE. With just 4 GB > hard-drive I'm not able to install all the programs I need even after > moving my own files to the external SD drive. > > To resolve this I was thinking of also moving some of the system file > directories to the SD drive, but want to be sure that the ones I move > are non-critical ones, so that I could boot and have basic functionality > without the SD card. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should > (or shouldn't) move over to the SD card? Try apt-cache clean first, you'll free up some space that way. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 14:14:16 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:14:16 -0400 Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> Alex Maynard wrote: > > Hi All, > > I'm just trying to set up ubuntu on the Asus EE. With just 4 GB > hard-drive I'm not able to install all the programs I need even after > moving my own files to the external SD drive. > > To resolve this I was thinking of also moving some of the system file > directories to the SD drive, but want to be sure that the ones I move > are non-critical ones, so that I could boot and have basic functionality > without the SD card. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should > (or shouldn't) move over to the SD card? Correction to my previous email, apt-get clean. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 15:29:37 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:29:37 -0400 Subject: Various Hardware In-Reply-To: <4841A1B1.9060707-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0805310852l2ae4cf35h3259edc395a7d9e4@mail.gmail.com> <4841A1B1.9060707@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0806160829n7369be9emb10d7bf9b31b4b8a@mail.gmail.com> Sorry for the slow replies, I've been working on getting that Celeron working for another gent on here. Whereabouts do you live/work. I live in N York work downtown, so I might be able to get this to you somehow. Regards, TJA On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > I am very interested in the itx chassis and small PSU! > > Madi > > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> Here's some various odds and ends if anyone is interested >> >> a) epson touch LCD, EG9013F-NZ-1, 9543AM6. Needs to connect to an >> appropriate interface module/card (no VGA connector) >> b) Mini-ITX case suitable for carPC, etc. DC power connectors on back >> (somewhere around here there's an ITSP for having the power toggled by >> the ignition as well). >> c) Various IDE and SATA cables >> d) Various motherboard header to USB or firewire connectors >> e) 112W mini-PSU. Suitable for mini-ITX or lower-power boards, small >> projects >> f) USB Telbox (USB to telephone adaptor for VOIP/SIP) >> g) 3COM 10MBPS PCMCIA car d/w dongle >> h) An iButton and serial interface adaptor >> (http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/ibutton/ibuttons/) >> i) A 566Mhz Celeron eMachine >> >> All going for the stupendous price of $0.00, anyone interested? >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 17:04:14 2008 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 13:04:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: <48567538.8050907-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jun 2008, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Alex Maynard wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I'm just trying to set up ubuntu on the Asus EE. With just 4 GB hard-drive >> I'm not able to install all the programs I need even after moving my own >> files to the external SD drive. >> >> To resolve this I was thinking of also moving some of the system file >> directories to the SD drive, but want to be sure that the ones I move >> are non-critical ones, so that I could boot and have basic functionality >> without the SD card. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should >> (or shouldn't) move over to the SD card? > > Correction to my previous email, apt-get clean. Jamon, Thanks for the good suggestion. Any particularly large software packages that I could safely remove. I mainly use just emacs, latex, open-office, firefox, acroread. I'm removing gimp, xsane, evolution. Are there any other large applications that I could remove to pair down on space? Alex > > Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From johnfruh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 18:23:11 2008 From: johnfruh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Fruhwirth) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:23:11 -0400 Subject: Laptop Repair Centre In-Reply-To: <485634B1.5060602-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <485634B1.5060602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c9fc95b0806161123w6f8841dk961f008747bca6f9@mail.gmail.com> Hi Karman, Try IFix Computers. Talk to Andy Liu. He is a laptop specialist. I've had a good experience with him. Here are his coordinates: pchelps-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org ifix-computers.com 647-426-6000 1178 Kennedy Rd. Scarborough Just north of Lawrence and on the west side in a little strip mall. ...John On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 5:38 AM, Kamran wrote: > Can anyone recommend a laptop repair centre, preferably one that > specializes in Thinkpads. I need a minor repair that is going to require > soldering. Thanks. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 16 23:14:42 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:14:42 -0400 Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: References: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4856F3E2.6010704@telly.org> Alex Maynard wrote: > Jamon, Thanks for the good suggestion. Any particularly large software > packages that I could safely remove. I mainly use just emacs, latex, > open-office, firefox, acroread. I'm removing gimp, xsane, evolution. > Are there any other large applications that I could remove to pair > down on space? If you're not into multimedia then you could also get rid of xine and/or mplayer (or just have one but not both), as well as excess codecs. Then there are the games and other diversions that you could also consider getting rid of. Then there are old versions of stuff. Usually when Ubuntu installs a new kernel it doesn't get rid of the old one, so you might have duplicate old kernels hanging around. Try the command to see how many kernel versions you have installed. There are other examples -- my system seems to have three different versions of gcc installed, you may not need them all. It's also possible to have multiple versions of mysql and other tools, watch out for that. One other thing that Ubuntu tends to do is to install every possible X server ... once you know which one you're using. Try to see if you have anything you can get rid of there... Hope this helps.... - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 04:02:18 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:02:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806152007x36f73034sc5065cd88dafb403-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806152007x36f73034sc5065cd88dafb403@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Jun 2008, Ian Petersen wrote: > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:21 AM, Robert Brockway > wrote: >> It's late and I wrote this very quickly. Sorry if it isn't clear. > > It was very clear, but I didn't get that far. I've got OpenVPN The first time is always the hardest :) > running in server mode on the VPS, and I thought I had it running in > client mode on the Exchange server, but starting it on the Exchange > server produces errors in the log file. I hope to get things working > tomorrow night, and then I'll move on to setting up an MTA. Googling the error will often reveal a solution, otherwise feel free to post the error to this thread. > Speaking of the MTA, thanks, Jamon--that HowtoForge link looks very promising. Remember to make sure you reject undeliberable mail at the first MTA. If you don't do this your MTA can be a source of backscatter spam. If that happens it will find itself on an RBL[1] rapidly. [1] Real-time Blackhole List, a common anti-spam technique. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backscatter_%28e-mail%29 Another option which would likely fulfill your requirements is to use a Transparent SMTP proxy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparent_SMTP_proxy Personally I _like_ queueing the mail on a reliable server out on the 'net. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 06:23:58 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 02:23:58 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806152007x36f73034sc5065cd88dafb403@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420806162323v257726bel54a833391f21fdf3@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 12:02 AM, Robert Brockway wrote: >> running in server mode on the VPS, and I thought I had it running in >> client mode on the Exchange server, but starting it on the Exchange >> server produces errors in the log file. I hope to get things working >> tomorrow night, and then I'll move on to setting up an MTA. > > Googling the error will often reveal a solution, otherwise feel free to post > the error to this thread. It seems to have resolved itself after uninstalling and then reinstalling OpenVPN on the Exchange server. We were following a sequence of recipes of graduated complexity to make sure we understood the principles. The first tunnel was an unencrypted link, then we created an encrypted link using static keys, and then we tried a setup that allows many clients to authenticate themselves with certificates. It was when we moved from static keys to certificates that things broke. My dad pointed out he had a virtual network interface with the address 10.0.0.2, but we were expecting OpenVPN to create an interface with an address like 10.0.0.5 or .6 upon client authentication. We decided it might have been a ghost from one of the first two experiments. Reinstalling OpenVPN made the ghost device disappear and then connecting worked like a charm. The one thing that has me a little confused is that the Debian server can't ping the Exchange server. Exchange is running on the same machine as his "internal" firewall. The firewall is Microsoft's ISA, or something--I'm not familiar with it and I didn't ask questions. The firewall is configured to drop ICMP requests from the internet, which makes sense to me, but what doesn't make sense to me is that it's able to filter out the pings coming in across the VPN. I would have thought that, since the VPN is encrypted, the firewall should be blind to traffic on it. Now, maybe the firewall drops pings on all interfaces, not just the public one, which would explain it, but that strikes me as a little odd. > Remember to make sure you reject undeliberable mail at the first MTA. If > you don't do this your MTA can be a source of backscatter spam. If that > happens it will find itself on an RBL[1] rapidly. My dad already has inbound mail working so we decided to leave well enough alone and just worry about outbound mail. I used apt to install Postfix, which dropped me into a curses configuration interface. I answered the questions, added 10.0.1.0/24 to the definition of "my_networks" in main.cf, configured Exchange to use Postfix as its smart host, and then things "just worked". I intend to set up an iptables firewall to block incoming connections except on ports 22 and 1194 (ssh and OpenVPN respectively), and I expect Postfix will hum along without contributing positively or negatively to the spam problem. I'll leave it up to my dad to make sure he's not creating backscatter. Thanks again everyone. My dad can now send email without asking Rogers for permission, so he's very happy. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 13:26:53 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:26:53 -0400 Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: References: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20080617132653.GA31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 01:04:14PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > Jamon, Thanks for the good suggestion. Any particularly large software > packages that I could safely remove. I mainly use just emacs, latex, > open-office, firefox, acroread. I'm removing gimp, xsane, evolution. > Are there any other large applications that I could remove to pair down on > space? Well removing open-office would probably free 500MB or so. :) vim if it is installed might be another 20 to 30MB. Basicaly open-office, emacs and latex are probably among the largest most bloated things you can have installed, so if you really think those are all useful there probably isn't much hope fitting it on that small a disk. Try this though: for pkg in `dpkg -l|grep ^ii|awk '{print $2}'`; do echo -n "$pkg "; apt-cache show $pkg|grep 'Installed-Size:'|head -n 1|awk '{print $2'}; done | sed -e 's/\(.*\) \(.*\)/\2 \1/'|sort -n That will list all the installed packages (those matching ^ii in dpkg -l) and print the installed size of each one (in 512byte blocks) sorted so largest goes last. For example when I run it on one machine here I get this at the end: 58604 cm-super 63240 gcc-4.1-powerpc 63512 acroread 66044 linux-image-2.6.18-5-amd64 66048 linux-image-2.6.18-6-amd64 66692 mysql-server-5.0 87312 sun-j2re1.5 99844 openoffice.org-core 100952 texlive-latex-extra 138596 texlive-fonts-extra 282216 classpath-doc I guess classpath-doc really ought to go given I have no idea why I would need that. The texlive extras might be redundant too. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 13:30:42 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:30:42 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806162323v257726bel54a833391f21fdf3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806152007x36f73034sc5065cd88dafb403@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806162323v257726bel54a833391f21fdf3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080617133042.GB31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 02:23:58AM -0400, Ian Petersen wrote: > It seems to have resolved itself after uninstalling and then > reinstalling OpenVPN on the Exchange server. We were following a > sequence of recipes of graduated complexity to make sure we understood > the principles. The first tunnel was an unencrypted link, then we > created an encrypted link using static keys, and then we tried a setup > that allows many clients to authenticate themselves with certificates. > It was when we moved from static keys to certificates that things > broke. My dad pointed out he had a virtual network interface with the > address 10.0.0.2, but we were expecting OpenVPN to create an interface > with an address like 10.0.0.5 or .6 upon client authentication. We > decided it might have been a ghost from one of the first two > experiments. Reinstalling OpenVPN made the ghost device disappear and > then connecting worked like a charm. > > The one thing that has me a little confused is that the Debian server > can't ping the Exchange server. Exchange is running on the same > machine as his "internal" firewall. The firewall is Microsoft's ISA, > or something--I'm not familiar with it and I didn't ask questions. > The firewall is configured to drop ICMP requests from the internet, > which makes sense to me, but what doesn't make sense to me is that > it's able to filter out the pings coming in across the VPN. I would > have thought that, since the VPN is encrypted, the firewall should be > blind to traffic on it. Now, maybe the firewall drops pings on all > interfaces, not just the public one, which would explain it, but that > strikes me as a little odd. In my experience most current versions of windows seem to default to not answer pings at all. I can't ping most of the windows workstations at work, while the linux ones answer just fine. > My dad already has inbound mail working so we decided to leave well > enough alone and just worry about outbound mail. I used apt to > install Postfix, which dropped me into a curses configuration > interface. I answered the questions, added 10.0.1.0/24 to the > definition of "my_networks" in main.cf, configured Exchange to use > Postfix as its smart host, and then things "just worked". I intend to > set up an iptables firewall to block incoming connections except on > ports 22 and 1194 (ssh and OpenVPN respectively), and I expect Postfix > will hum along without contributing positively or negatively to the > spam problem. I'll leave it up to my dad to make sure he's not > creating backscatter. Being able to use postgrey would seem very valuable, as well as being able to receive mail when rogers is down (not frequent but does happen), or one of the times rogers decides to change IPs around, which also occationally happens. > Thanks again everyone. My dad can now send email without asking > Rogers for permission, so he's very happy. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 14:43:35 2008 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: <20080617132653.GA31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> <20080617132653.GA31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jun 2008, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 01:04:14PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: >> Jamon, Thanks for the good suggestion. Any particularly large software >> packages that I could safely remove. I mainly use just emacs, latex, >> open-office, firefox, acroread. I'm removing gimp, xsane, evolution. >> Are there any other large applications that I could remove to pair down on >> space? > > Well removing open-office would probably free 500MB or so. :) > > vim if it is installed might be another 20 to 30MB. > > Basicaly open-office, emacs and latex are probably among the largest > most bloated things you can have installed, so if you really think those > are all useful there probably isn't much hope fitting it on that small a > disk. I only use open-office to open spread sheets and word docs. Can I remove its other functions like database, but keep these or is it all or nothing? > > Try this though: > for pkg in `dpkg -l|grep ^ii|awk '{print $2}'`; do echo -n "$pkg "; apt-cache show $pkg|grep 'Installed-Size:'|head -n 1|awk '{print $2'}; done | sed -e 's/\(.*\) \(.*\)/\2 \1/'|sort -n Thank you so much. What a useful command. Definitely one to write down. No way I'm going to be able to remember this. I purchased in a hurry before a trip and should have done more research first. Apparently they already have versions of the Asus EE with larger hard-drives. Alex > > That will list all the installed packages (those matching ^ii in dpkg > -l) and print the installed size of each one (in 512byte blocks) sorted > so largest goes last. > > For example when I run it on one machine here I get this at the end: > 58604 cm-super > 63240 gcc-4.1-powerpc > 63512 acroread > 66044 linux-image-2.6.18-5-amd64 > 66048 linux-image-2.6.18-6-amd64 > 66692 mysql-server-5.0 > 87312 sun-j2re1.5 > 99844 openoffice.org-core > 100952 texlive-latex-extra > 138596 texlive-fonts-extra > 282216 classpath-doc > > I guess classpath-doc really ought to go given I have no idea why I > would need that. The texlive extras might be redundant too. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 15:10:14 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:10:14 -0400 Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: References: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> <20080617132653.GA31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4857D3D6.506@telly.org> Alex Maynard wrote: > I only use open-office to open spread sheets and word docs. Can I > remove its other functions like database, but keep these or is it all > or nothing? In Debian/Ubuntu there is a large common core, but you can save space by removing the packages: openoffice.org-base openoffice.org-dev openoffice.org-dev-doc openoffice.org-draw etc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 15:27:11 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:27:11 -0400 Subject: [mythtv-gta]: Re:MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just to follow-up on what I got for a new front end, the good the bad and the ugly (there is a bit of all the above in the new front end) here goes: The good: - The case, a SilverStone SST-SG02-F in black. Quite nice, a LITTLE larger than I would consider ideal, but in every other respect I am happy with this as a case. - The CPU, an AMD Athlon 64 3200+ AM2 socket using CPU. Low-end, inexpensive, and just fine for basic front end purposes. - Memory - 1 GB from a no-name firm, again, nothing to complain about. The bad: - ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard. Normally I have had great results with ASUS motherboards, but this one is a stinker. I can not get it to install KnoppMyth, with error such as: BIOS Bug: MCFG area at f0000000 is not E820-reserved There is another error regarding an invalid MAC address. Yes, I have upgraded the motherboard to the latest version of the BIOS (didn't help...). I have been able to get Mythbuntu to install on the machine, but that raises other issues (a Mythbuntu FE can be made to talk to a Knoppmyth BE, but things get nasty fast...). Further, the on motherboard nVidia video display is not good enough to support the playback of HD content (grumble). At the moment I am wondering if my best way forward is to move everything to Mythbuntu or if I should buy a different motherboard (both options being nasty in different ways)... The ugly: - Coolmax 500W power supply. Way more power than a pure diskless FE would need (as it turns out I have tossed in a 40 GB drive to support Mythbuntu, but that is another story...). Any event I thought I would drop this power supply into my FE/BE box and move the FE/BE 430W power supply (also a Coolmax) into the FE box. That turns out to be a non-option. The cord from the power supply is too short to run from the power supply to the 20/24 pin power connector on the motherboard. So, all is well inside the FE box (shorter distance from power supply to motherboard). But it means that I have a bigger power supply than I want/need in FE box and I don't have the option of swapping power supplies between those two boxes should the FE/BE power supply die... In summary: I am disgusted with the ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS, it works but barely (all the issues appear to land at the feet of the BIOS creators...), and I am not happy with the Coolmax 500W power supply (would it kill them to add an extra 3-5 cm of wire to the power connector). Colin McGregor On 6/8/08, Colin McGregor wrote: > On 6/6/08, Aaron Vegh wrote: >> Hi all, >> I've lately been attempting to research hardware that would be >> suitable for a Myth Frontend machine. I'm having a hell of a time with >> it, as it turns out. My requirements are: >> >> - Must playback HD video >> - Must have gigabit ethernet >> - Must run either fanless or very silently >> - Must have DVI output >> - Really want it to be under $400 >> >> I'm actually considering buying a used Mac Mini, with the Core Duo >> 1.66 GHz processor -- it's a couple years old, and can be had for >> under $500 on eBay. The Everex gPC Mini that just came out also >> appears to have the right hardware, but at $500 US is too much money. >> >> My understanding is that one should be able to save big bucks building >> it themselves. I just can't find the right components, esp. the >> motherboard. Any help or recommendations would be welcome! > > First off I am cc:'ing this to the local MythTV mailing list. I know > there is a fair amount of overlap between the TLUG list and the MythTV > list, but the MythTV list will bring in a few additional minds to the > issue at hand (which also means my apologies to those who see this > message twice...). > > I got back from a trip out of town Thursday (helping my mother get > settled at home a a few weeks in hospital), After much internal debate > I took up to her what had been my MythTV FE box (now converted to a > FE/BE box), so I am now in the middle of a similar process (sorting > out building a new FE box). > > The one thing I hated in the old box was the size, I used a > SilverStone LC-13 case (very nice, solid, elegant looking case, with > lots of space for motherboard, drives, etc.). The Silverstone LC-13 is > more-or-less everything you would want in a FE/BE or pure BE case. As > a FE box stuck in my modest size bedroom the LC-13 was just too big, > it just took over the top of my dresser (sigh...). So, while the new > box doesn't have to be pocket size, it can not be a full size box... > > Once one drops the idea of a full size case (and with it, the idea of > a full size motherboard) the question is where else is one willing to > accept compromises? In my case the answer is not in very many other > places. While power supplies failing on me has not happened very > often, it has occurred often enough that any machine that uses a > proprietary power supply is out. I want a PSU that I can swap in > minutes, and be able to get a replacement for from 95+% of the PC > dealers in Toronto. This means the Shuttle boxes and the Apple TV > boxes, cute as they are (and some are very cute) are out in my books. > > While doing another conversion of a FE box to FE/BE box is a very low > priority for me, I do want that option on the table. So, I have turned > towards the micro ATX motherboards, the smallest "standard" size > motherboards. A max. of 4 expansion slots, but at least will use > standard PCI and/or PCI express and/or AGP expansion cards. A range of > micro ATX only case designs are available, some of which are very > attractive and many accept standard power supplies. > > With the micro ATX motherboards route, appearance / speed / > performance / cost / noise are all options you have some wiggle room > on. For example I was NOT happy with the noise of the original CPU fan > in my FE/BE box, so I bought a Thermaltake TR2-R1 CPU fan, which > helped a lot (ALMOST silent). A box that can deal with HDTV content is > just a matter of a decent CPU and decent video card (my old Semperon > 2400+ CPU based FE with an nVidia 6200 card could (just) handle decent > HDTV playback to an SD quality screen (but one had to pay attention to > video settings)). > > My current target for my new FE box is $200 (Cdn.), a target I don't > think I will quite make, still, I do expect to be under $250. A few > things, this will be a diskless box, net booting off the main FE/BE > box (so, no hard drive(s), DVD ROMs, etc.,) thus knocking ~$100+ off > the cost of a more conventional box. Keyboard / mouse are coming out > of my spare parts bin (again lowering costs). I have selected (and > bought on Saturday) a case, a SilverStone SST-SG02-F in black (bought > from Canada Computers (who have several locations in the GTA)). Still > debating CPU/motherboard picks... > > I'll let folks know how my box comes together... > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Myth TV mailing list > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 15:51:49 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:51:49 -0400 Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: References: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> <20080617132653.GA31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080617155149.GC31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 10:43:35AM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > I only use open-office to open spread sheets and word docs. Can I remove > its other functions like database, but keep these or is it all or nothing? They are seperate packages to some extent, so you could remove some, although the openoffice core is the biggest part and you can't remove that part if you want any of openoffice to "work". > Thank you so much. What a useful command. Definitely one to > write down. No way I'm going to be able to remember this. Just combining a few bits of information in the typical unix fashion. dpkg -l to get installed package names, and apt-cache to get information about them, and sort to make it a nice order. > I purchased in a hurry before a trip and should have done more research > first. Apparently they already have versions of the Asus EE with larger > hard-drives. The 900 and 901 both have 4GB + 16GB, which is quite a bit more. They also have a larger 8.9" screen. The 901 looks way better than the 900 by the way which I suspect will be quickly discontinued. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 15:57:39 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:57:39 -0400 Subject: [mythtv-gta]: Re:MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080617155739.GD31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:27:11AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to follow-up on what I got for a new front end, the good the bad > and the ugly (there is a bit of all the above in the new front end) > here goes: > > The good: > > - The case, a SilverStone SST-SG02-F in black. Quite nice, a LITTLE > larger than I would consider ideal, but in every other respect I am > happy with this as a case. > > - The CPU, an AMD Athlon 64 3200+ AM2 socket using CPU. Low-end, > inexpensive, and just fine for basic front end purposes. > > - Memory - 1 GB from a no-name firm, again, nothing to complain about. > > The bad: > > - ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard. Normally I have had great results > with ASUS motherboards, but this one is a stinker. I can not get it to > install KnoppMyth, with error such as: > > BIOS Bug: MCFG area at f0000000 is not E820-reserved That normally really doesn't matter. I see that on many systems. > There is another error regarding an invalid MAC address. Yes, I have > upgraded the motherboard to the latest version of the BIOS (didn't > help...). The nvidia ethernet has had an unfortunate tendancy for some board makers to program the eeprom backwards with respect to the MAC address. I believe current kernel versions deal with it correctly, but some recent ones very much did not. > I have been able to get Mythbuntu to install on the machine, but that > raises other issues (a Mythbuntu FE can be made to talk to a Knoppmyth > BE, but things get nasty fast...). If they run the same version of mythtv it should be fine. I suspect they don't. > Further, the on motherboard nVidia video display is not good enough to > support the playback of HD content (grumble). With or without the nvidia binary only driver? Using XvMC? > At the moment I am wondering if my best way forward is to move > everything to Mythbuntu or if I should buy a different motherboard > (both options being nasty in different ways)... > > The ugly: > > - Coolmax 500W power supply. Way more power than a pure diskless FE > would need (as it turns out I have tossed in a 40 GB drive to support > Mythbuntu, but that is another story...). > > Any event I thought I would drop this power supply into my FE/BE box > and move the FE/BE 430W power supply (also a Coolmax) into the FE box. > That turns out to be a non-option. The cord from the power supply is > too short to run from the power supply to the 20/24 pin power > connector on the motherboard. So, all is well inside the FE box > (shorter distance from power supply to motherboard). But it means that > I have a bigger power supply than I want/need in FE box and I don't > have the option of swapping power supplies between those two boxes > should the FE/BE power supply die... > > In summary: > > I am disgusted with the ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS, it works but barely (all > the issues appear to land at the feet of the BIOS creators...), and I > am not happy with the Coolmax 500W power supply (would it kill them to > add an extra 3-5 cm of wire to the power connector). Some power supplies assume the case has a certain layout. HT boxes often place the power supply somewhere else entirely. Silverstone for example tends to have much longer cords on their power supplies becasue HT boxes is one of their specialties. They are also rather cheap to buy and very quiet and very good. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 16:19:00 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:19:00 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <20080617133042.GB31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806152007x36f73034sc5065cd88dafb403@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806162323v257726bel54a833391f21fdf3@mail.gmail.com> <20080617133042.GB31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420806170919ra07c7e7wd87a3a7d1cf6b42b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 9:30 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Being able to use postgrey would seem very valuable, as well as being > able to receive mail when rogers is down (not frequent but does happen), > or one of the times rogers decides to change IPs around, which also > occationally happens. Regarding postgrey, he's got some kind of spam filter in place. Don't know anything about it except that it integrates with Exchange. As for receiving mail when Rogers is down, won't the sending MTA queue things just as well as Postfix could? Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 17:18:47 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:18:47 -0400 Subject: [mythtv-gta]: Re:MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: <20080617155739.GD31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> <20080617155739.GD31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 6/17/08, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:27:11AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >> Just to follow-up on what I got for a new front end, the good the bad >> and the ugly (there is a bit of all the above in the new front end) >> here goes: >> >> The good: >> The bad: >> >> - ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard. Normally I have had great results >> with ASUS motherboards, but this one is a stinker. I can not get it to >> install KnoppMyth, with errors such as: >> >> BIOS Bug: MCFG area at f0000000 is not E820-reserved > > That normally really doesn't matter. I see that on many systems. > >> There is another error regarding an invalid MAC address. Yes, I have >> upgraded the motherboard to the latest version of the BIOS (didn't >> help...). > > The nvidia ethernet has had an unfortunate tendancy for some board > makers to program the eeprom backwards with respect to the MAC address. > I believe current kernel versions deal with it correctly, but some > recent ones very much did not. Well it appears the stock kernel with KnoppMyth is one of the problem ones... :-( . >> I have been able to get Mythbuntu to install on the machine, but that >> raises other issues (a Mythbuntu FE can be made to talk to a Knoppmyth >> BE, but things get nasty fast...). > > If they run the same version of mythtv it should be fine. I suspect > they don't. The stock Mythbuntu 7.10 frontend can work with a stock KnoppMyth R5 F27 backend (after you have tweaked a number of settings, such as file locations, database password, etc...). Running apt-get update | apt-get upgrade however is a ticket to disaster. >> Further, the on motherboard nVidia video display is not good enough to >> support the playback of HD content (grumble). > > With or without the nvidia binary only driver? Using XvMC? That was with the nvidia binary only driver (which the Mythbuntu people appear to hate) and I tried several encoding schemes including XvMC. In all cases I was at best looking at a stuttering video/audio. >> At the moment I am wondering if my best way forward is to move >> everything to Mythbuntu or if I should buy a different motherboard >> (both options being nasty in different ways)... >> >> The ugly: >> >> - Coolmax 500W power supply. Way more power than a pure diskless FE >> would need (as it turns out I have tossed in a 40 GB drive to support >> Mythbuntu, but that is another story...). >> >> Any event I thought I would drop this power supply into my FE/BE box >> and move the FE/BE 430W power supply (also a Coolmax) into the FE box. >> That turns out to be a non-option. The cord from the power supply is >> too short to run from the power supply to the 20/24 pin power >> connector on the motherboard. So, all is well inside the FE box >> (shorter distance from power supply to motherboard). But it means that >> I have a bigger power supply than I want/need in FE box and I don't >> have the option of swapping power supplies between those two boxes >> should the FE/BE power supply die... >> >> In summary: >> >> I am disgusted with the ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS, it works but barely (all >> the issues appear to land at the feet of the BIOS creators...), and I >> am not happy with the Coolmax 500W power supply (would it kill them to >> add an extra 3-5 cm of wire to the power connector). > > Some power supplies assume the case has a certain layout. HT boxes > often place the power supply somewhere else entirely. Silverstone for > example tends to have much longer cords on their power supplies becasue > HT boxes is one of their specialties. They are also rather cheap to buy > and very quiet and very good. My FE box (where the power supply fits) has what in my mind an odd location for the power supply (over the motherboard), The FE/BE box where things don't quite fit seems very much like a standard mini-tower tipped on its side, with the power supply JUST to one side of the motherboard. No, the issue here is that the Coolmax people included a short power cable between the power supply and motherboard connector.... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 17:46:12 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:46:12 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806170919ra07c7e7wd87a3a7d1cf6b42b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806152007x36f73034sc5065cd88dafb403@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806162323v257726bel54a833391f21fdf3@mail.gmail.com> <20080617133042.GB31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806170919ra07c7e7wd87a3a7d1cf6b42b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080617174612.GE31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 12:19:00PM -0400, Ian Petersen wrote: > Regarding postgrey, he's got some kind of spam filter in place. Don't > know anything about it except that it integrates with Exchange. As > for receiving mail when Rogers is down, won't the sending MTA queue > things just as well as Postfix could? They ought to yes. Depends how long rogers is down of course. So far I have not seen anything close to the effectiveness of postgrey though. I of course don't personally believe in exchange having any value, nor do I believe it is ever safe to connect a windows system to the internet without a seperate firewall between it and the internet. Software firewalls on windows don't count. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 17:49:28 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:49:28 -0400 Subject: [mythtv-gta]: Re:MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> <20080617155739.GD31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080617174928.GF31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 01:18:47PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > That was with the nvidia binary only driver (which the Mythbuntu > people appear to hate) and I tried several encoding schemes including > XvMC. In all cases I was at best looking at a stuttering video/audio. What type of video? What codec, bitrate, resolution, etc? What CPU were you running in it? > My FE box (where the power supply fits) has what in my mind an odd > location for the power supply (over the motherboard), The FE/BE box > where things don't quite fit seems very much like a standard > mini-tower tipped on its side, with the power supply JUST to one side > of the motherboard. No, the issue here is that the Coolmax people > included a short power cable between the power supply and motherboard > connector.... Most boards have the power connector near the right side of the board (where the right side is usually up in a tower case with ATX layout). The power supply is usually placed next to that side of the board, that is near the CPU socket. On my silverstone HT case, the pwoer supply is placed on the left side of the board, near the PCI slots, and hence needs a longer cable (which it certainly has, and the case even included an extension for the power connector). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 19:02:36 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:02:36 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <20080617174612.GE31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806152007x36f73034sc5065cd88dafb403@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806162323v257726bel54a833391f21fdf3@mail.gmail.com> <20080617133042.GB31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806170919ra07c7e7wd87a3a7d1cf6b42b@mail.gmail.com> <20080617174612.GE31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420806171202h13b2c5f3p14e070351dfe128e@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I of course don't personally believe in exchange having any > value, I _think_ my dad likes to have Exchange running partly because it gives him practical experience when a customer calls up with Exchange problems. I think he has other reasons, too, but it's not really worth arguing about, in my opinion. It works adequately for him, and there's not much point in mucking about with a functioning system. In my own case, I'd rather use something that's open source, and Free if it's available, but I'm young enough that wasting time tinkering isn't a waste. > nor do I believe it is ever safe to connect a windows system to > the internet without a seperate firewall between it and the internet. > Software firewalls on windows don't count. I with you there and, in this case, there's a Linksys product between the cable modem and the Microsoft software firewall. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 21:38:17 2008 From: sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: (unknown) In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0806160829n7369be9emb10d7bf9b31b4b8a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0806160829n7369be9emb10d7bf9b31b4b8a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <58751.6299.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> This Toronto based scam seems to ring a bell with me anyone familiar with the nogoodniks mentioned? http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/06/ils.shtm Rob Rob Sutherland 'Would you like fries with that?' -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 21:42:08 2008 From: sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FTC shuts down Toronto based scammers In-Reply-To: <58751.6299.qm-XZZpPA3K4zX5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <58751.6299.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <577597.30466.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Sorry about the double post - forgot a subject.... --- Rob Sutherland wrote: > This Toronto based scam seems to ring a bell with me > anyone familiar with the nogoodniks mentioned? > > http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/06/ils.shtm > > Rob > > Rob Sutherland > > 'Would you like fries with that?' > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Rob Sutherland 'Would you like fries with that?' -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 22:27:19 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:27:19 -0400 Subject: FTC shuts down Toronto based scammers In-Reply-To: <58751.6299.qm-XZZpPA3K4zX5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <58751.6299.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48583A47.8010306@alteeve.com> Rob Sutherland wrote: > This Toronto based scam seems to ring a bell with me > anyone familiar with the nogoodniks mentioned? > > http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/06/ils.shtm > > Rob > > Rob Sutherland > > 'Would you like fries with that?' Haha, I got one of those a few months back. I was like "Huh?!?" Glad they've been shut down, scum. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 23:00:15 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:00:15 -0400 Subject: FTC shuts down Toronto based scammers In-Reply-To: <577597.30466.qm-Fzfr+oC8rxz5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <58751.6299.qm@web65613.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <577597.30466.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A typical example where idiots are make to pay. I am however glad that someone is doing something with this. No doubt that this was a crime. I regret rather that very likely much more of that kind of stupidity goes on on the Internet around. Even the so called SEO work is now mostly a scam. Because, simply, it is nowedays almost impossible to improve ranking of web pages in search engeens listings, except by the way of providing a better content. The most funny thing is, however, that even so called "engineers" specialists in SEO do not always know that. Obviously, their clients almost certainly do not know that either. I wish also that more attention is provided to some strange practices related to registering domain names. zb. On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Rob Sutherland wrote: > Sorry about the double post - forgot a subject.... > > --- Rob Sutherland wrote: > >> This Toronto based scam seems to ring a bell with me >> anyone familiar with the nogoodniks mentioned? >> >> http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/06/ils.shtm >> >> Rob >> >> Rob Sutherland >> >> 'Would you like fries with that?' >> >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: >> http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text >> below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: >> http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > Rob Sutherland > > 'Would you like fries with that?' > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 23:11:51 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:11:51 -0400 Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: <20080617132653.GA31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> <20080617132653.GA31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280806171611t4d74bce9r2056ebaee697263e@mail.gmail.com> Another, somewhat simpler version that produces very similar results: alias dpkgs="dpkg-query -W --showformat='\${Installed-Size} \${Package}\n' | sort -n" I've used this for years. The dubious winners (since I don't use OO): 36008 gnome-user-guide 37144 libgl1-mesa-dri 40796 gnome-applets-data 43448 sbcl 49344 libgcj9-0 68952 ia32-libs 70608 sun-java6-bin 71552 linux-image-2.6.22-3-amd64 75552 linux-image-2.6.24-1-amd64 91180 evolution-common I don't even use evolution - but I can't remove it because apt will purge the entire of GNOME (which I do occasionally use bits of) if I remove evolution ... or even the gnome-user-guide. I love apt, but sometimes people implement some pretty silly dependencies. On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 01:04:14PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: >> Jamon, Thanks for the good suggestion. Any particularly large software >> packages that I could safely remove. I mainly use just emacs, latex, >> open-office, firefox, acroread. I'm removing gimp, xsane, evolution. >> Are there any other large applications that I could remove to pair down on >> space? > > Well removing open-office would probably free 500MB or so. :) > > vim if it is installed might be another 20 to 30MB. > > Basicaly open-office, emacs and latex are probably among the largest > most bloated things you can have installed, so if you really think those > are all useful there probably isn't much hope fitting it on that small a > disk. > > Try this though: > for pkg in `dpkg -l|grep ^ii|awk '{print $2}'`; do echo -n "$pkg "; apt-cache show $pkg|grep 'Installed-Size:'|head -n 1|awk '{print $2'}; done | sed -e 's/\(.*\) \(.*\)/\2 \1/'|sort -n > > That will list all the installed packages (those matching ^ii in dpkg > -l) and print the installed size of each one (in 512byte blocks) sorted > so largest goes last. > > For example when I run it on one machine here I get this at the end: > 58604 cm-super > 63240 gcc-4.1-powerpc > 63512 acroread > 66044 linux-image-2.6.18-5-amd64 > 66048 linux-image-2.6.18-6-amd64 > 66692 mysql-server-5.0 > 87312 sun-j2re1.5 > 99844 openoffice.org-core > 100952 texlive-latex-extra > 138596 texlive-fonts-extra > 282216 classpath-doc > > I guess classpath-doc really ought to go given I have no idea why I > would need that. The texlive extras might be redundant too. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jun 17 23:30:32 2008 From: sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 16:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FTC shuts down Toronto based scammers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <326037.77313.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > goes on on the Internet around. Even the so called > SEO work is now > mostly a scam. Because, simply, it is nowedays > almost impossible to > improve ranking of web pages in search engeens > listings, except by the > way of providing a better content. The most funny > thing is, however, > that even so called "engineers" specialists in SEO > do not always know No kidding...the SEO scamorama is a classic example of why it's so much fun to live to live in a era where most of my household appliances are smarter than most of the people making business decisions...I wish that was a joke... Rob Rob Sutherland 'Would you like fries with that?' -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 18 05:55:27 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 01:55:27 -0400 Subject: FTC shuts down Toronto based scammers In-Reply-To: <326037.77313.qm-j7iHDx50kh/5nGHA2nhOEg9VFclH1bkmQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <326037.77313.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4858A34F.3080500@telly.org> Rob Sutherland wrote: > No kidding...the SEO scamorama is a classic example of > why it's so much fun to live to live in a era where > most of my household appliances are smarter than most > of the people making business decisions...I wish that > was a joke... > I love the timing of this thread. Anyone going to this today? http://www.searchenginestrategies.com/toronto/ I had actually registered but decided not to go. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 18 12:12:23 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:12:23 -0400 Subject: SEO presentation In-Reply-To: <4858A34F.3080500-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <326037.77313.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4858A34F.3080500@telly.org> Message-ID: <1213791143.11152.91.camel@leon> On Wed, 2008-06-18 at 01:55 -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Rob Sutherland wrote: > > No kidding...the SEO scamorama is a classic example [ ... ] [ . . . ] > Anyone going to this today? > http://www.searchenginestrategies.com/toronto/ > I had actually registered but decided not to go. I'm looking forward to this presentation on Search Engine Optimization. It's by KWLUG regular and includes his practical examples. This presentation will be delivered at the KWLUG meeting on Monday, 11 August 2008, in Kitchener. As always, our Torontonian friends are welcome to join us. http://kwlug.org/node/591 [spoiler] As it is a White Hat presentation, yes, it all comes down to content. Some of the approaches to improve the content may surprise you. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 18 12:55:11 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:55:11 -0400 Subject: FTC shuts down Toronto based scammers In-Reply-To: <4858A34F.3080500-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <326037.77313.qm@web65611.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4858A34F.3080500@telly.org> Message-ID: On 6/18/08, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Rob Sutherland wrote: >> No kidding...the SEO scamorama is a classic example of >> why it's so much fun to live to live in a era where >> most of my household appliances are smarter than most >> of the people making business decisions...I wish that >> was a joke... >> > > I love the timing of this thread. > > Anyone going to this today? > > http://www.searchenginestrategies.com/toronto/ > > I had actually registered but decided not to go. I hope to stick my nose in there for an hour or so... I am running low on T-Shirts and ball point pens, yes, I am planning it as a swag run... (the IT360 show did not deliver on quantity swag this year :-( ) . The last SES show seemed to have a sort of ... used car salesman type feel to it ... ever so slightly ... slimy... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 18 13:05:47 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:05:47 -0400 Subject: Low power low end cheap server In-Reply-To: <20080616132903.GY31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230@mail.gmail.com> <20080616132903.GY31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280806180605q216471e7g60eb79e5f2f476c0@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 09:57:29PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: >> I want to set up a computer for file storage, accessible via VPN. I >> want it to consume very little power (I'm going to have it running >> always-on and at home), and it doesn't need much horsepower or memory >> but does need file space. I thought initially I would use a DecTOP >> (https://store.dataevolution.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DT-7001) >> but it has no ethernet, a 10GB HD, only 128Mb memory (I know I said it >> didn't need much memory, but that's _very_ low), and USB 1.1. By the >> time you put in a new HD and remedy the ethernet, HD, and possibly the >> RAM issues you might as well have started with a more expensive base. >> mini-itx looks good, but seems hard to buy and build a full system in >> Canada - especially cheaply. > > Well something like this might be close to what you want: > http://www.goodcleantech.com/2008/02/build_your_own_ultralowpower_p.php > With a harddrive it uses about 23W full out, and about 12W idle > apparantly, and it has 100Mbit ethernet, VGA, etc. No SATA, only IDE > unfortunately. It also has a power brick. The price seems about right > for what you wanted too. I like the look of that system, but it requires a laptop hard drive - not only are they more expensive, but they don't come up to the kind of capacity I was hoping for. But it is a lovely system. The router idea isn't a bad one at all either - I'll consider that. For the moment I think the best thing would be to set up one of my existing spare computers and see if A) I can build the kind of system I want with Linux and get it working properly, and B) see if it actually gets used as I'd intended. If these things happen, then maybe I'll consider putting money into it (should have thought of that first ...). Thanks Richard and Len. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 18 14:44:03 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 10:44:03 -0400 Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: <1f13df280806171611t4d74bce9r2056ebaee697263e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> <20080617132653.GA31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df280806171611t4d74bce9r2056ebaee697263e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080618144403.GG31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 07:11:51PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > Another, somewhat simpler version that produces very similar results: > > alias dpkgs="dpkg-query -W --showformat='\${Installed-Size} > \${Package}\n' | sort -n" > > I've used this for years. The dubious winners (since I don't use OO): > > 36008 gnome-user-guide > 37144 libgl1-mesa-dri > 40796 gnome-applets-data > 43448 sbcl > 49344 libgcj9-0 > 68952 ia32-libs > 70608 sun-java6-bin > 71552 linux-image-2.6.22-3-amd64 > 75552 linux-image-2.6.24-1-amd64 > 91180 evolution-common > > I don't even use evolution - but I can't remove it because apt will > purge the entire of GNOME (which I do occasionally use bits of) if I > remove evolution ... or even the gnome-user-guide. I love apt, but > sometimes people implement some pretty silly dependencies. No it will remove the gnome meta package which contains nothing other than a list of other gnome stuff. Remomving it is perfectly safe. Of course it might then declare other stuff an no longer required, but as long as you don't let it remove that (if using aptitude) you will still keep the rest of gnome. You can even just ask it to install those other pieces and it will keep them installed from then on. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 18 14:46:24 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 10:46:24 -0400 Subject: Low power low end cheap server In-Reply-To: <1f13df280806180605q216471e7g60eb79e5f2f476c0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230@mail.gmail.com> <20080616132903.GY31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df280806180605q216471e7g60eb79e5f2f476c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080618144624.GH31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 09:05:47AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > I like the look of that system, but it requires a laptop hard drive - > not only are they more expensive, but they don't come up to the kind > of capacity I was hoping for. But it is a lovely system. I think it said it supports and external SATA drive. I have gotten an external USB/eSATA enclosure with power supply for 3.5" SATA drives for like $40 (for the very good nexstar enclosure). http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014845&cid=516.700 > The router idea isn't a bad one at all either - I'll consider that. > > For the moment I think the best thing would be to set up one of my > existing spare computers and see if A) I can build the kind of system > I want with Linux and get it working properly, and B) see if it > actually gets used as I'd intended. If these things happen, then > maybe I'll consider putting money into it (should have thought of that > first ...). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 18 23:16:06 2008 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:16:06 -0400 Subject: Low power low end cheap server In-Reply-To: <1f13df280806180605q216471e7g60eb79e5f2f476c0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230@mail.gmail.com> <20080616132903.GY31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df280806180605q216471e7g60eb79e5f2f476c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1213830966.10753.1259202203@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:05:47 -0400, "Giles Orr" said: > > For the moment I think the best thing would be to set up one of my > existing spare computers and see if A) I can build the kind of system > I want with Linux and get it working properly, and B) see if it > actually gets used as I'd intended. If these things happen, then > maybe I'll consider putting money into it (should have thought of that > first ...). > If anyone's still following this, a comment: the Via Artigo has been found to be noisy and the connectors are fragile. There is a whole category of low power, usually silent motherboard+cpu products called Single Board Computers, usually with notebook-style mini-PCI sockets for adding wireless adapters and CompactFlash sockets for sold-state storage. The server-oriented models usually don't have VGA. Most have USB. Brand names include PC Engines and Soekris. The PC Engines Alix boards are said to run about 4 watts. This Ottawa retailer carries this kind of thing: http://www.xagyl.com/catalog/index.php?osCsid=0bc293f228193e44bca776919d5b6a9c A good distro to run on these boards is the Debian-based Voyage Linux. ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From vertaxis-fLiV7HKGQdk at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 01:24:19 2008 From: vertaxis-fLiV7HKGQdk at public.gmane.org (vertaxis) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:24:19 -0400 Subject: Low power low end cheap server In-Reply-To: <20080618144624.GH31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230@mail.gmail.com> <20080616132903.GY31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df280806180605q216471e7g60eb79e5f2f476c0@mail.gmail.com> <20080618144624.GH31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200806190124.m5J1OC6V021783@zanzibar.vif.com> I think you'd be hard pressed to build a solution for under $350.00. I'd recommend a mini-itx board from Via or Jetway with a C7 processor. It'll fix in any ATX case, and the Ram is standard DDR or DDR2. Minipc.ca has closed, so the only reliable supplier I know is www.logicsupply.com in the US. At 10:46 AM 2008/06/18, you wrote: >On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 09:05:47AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > > I like the look of that system, but it requires a laptop hard drive - > > not only are they more expensive, but they don't come up to the kind > > of capacity I was hoping for. But it is a lovely system. > >I think it said it supports and external SATA drive. I have gotten an >external USB/eSATA enclosure with power supply for 3.5" SATA drives for >like $40 (for the very good nexstar enclosure). > >http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=014845&cid=516.700 > > > The router idea isn't a bad one at all either - I'll consider that. > > > > For the moment I think the best thing would be to set up one of my > > existing spare computers and see if A) I can build the kind of system > > I want with Linux and get it working properly, and B) see if it > > actually gets used as I'd intended. If these things happen, then > > maybe I'll consider putting money into it (should have thought of that > > first ...). > >-- >Len Sorensen >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 02:47:33 2008 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:47:33 -0400 Subject: Low power low end cheap server In-Reply-To: <200806190124.m5J1OC6V021783-DjbzrgOW3G91n3SEVaWUIw@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230@mail.gmail.com> <20080616132903.GY31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df280806180605q216471e7g60eb79e5f2f476c0@mail.gmail.com> <20080618144624.GH31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200806190124.m5J1OC6V021783@zanzibar.vif.com> Message-ID: <1213843653.18977.1259230363@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:24:19 -0400, "vertaxis" said: > I think you'd be hard pressed to build a solution for under > $350.00. I'd recommend a mini-itx board from Via or Jetway with a C7 > processor. It'll fix in any ATX case, and the Ram is standard DDR or > DDR2. Minipc.ca has closed, so the only reliable supplier I know is > www.logicsupply.com in the US. If external storage is OK, than the server itself could be done like this: PC Engines Alix board with Geode LX800 processor + 256 RAM + miniPCI slots + USB + Ethernet = around $130 2G SD Card = around $30 Power supply + basic case = $30 Low power, silent, low end server = less than $200 ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 02:58:25 2008 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:58:25 -0400 Subject: Low power low end cheap server In-Reply-To: <200806190124.m5J1OC6V021783-DjbzrgOW3G91n3SEVaWUIw@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230@mail.gmail.com> <20080616132903.GY31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df280806180605q216471e7g60eb79e5f2f476c0@mail.gmail.com> <20080618144624.GH31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200806190124.m5J1OC6V021783@zanzibar.vif.com> Message-ID: vertaxis wrote: > I think you'd be hard pressed to build a solution for under $350.00. > I'd recommend a mini-itx board from Via or Jetway with a C7 processor. > It'll fix in any ATX case, and the Ram is standard DDR or DDR2. > Minipc.ca has closed, so the only reliable supplier I know is > www.logicsupply.com in the US. Didn't know about them. We've been dealing with minibox.com . Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 03:09:25 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:09:25 -0400 Subject: gtkpod on u 8.4 Message-ID: <4859CDE5.4090904@chrisaitken.net> I messed up my daughter's ubuntu 7.10 installation a few weeks ago by thrashing about trying to "fix" permissions after an scp data backup. I finally got around to reinstalling the OS, putting the new ubuntu 8.4 on. I want to install gtkpod again. The first time I did this ( on 7.10) it took me six weeks to get everything working. Is the install pretty much the same for 8.4. there was an svn install, putting firewire ID in the right place. The reason I don't want to rush into this is that, if possible, I don't want to lose the songs that are already on the iPod. Any first steps? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 03:12:45 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 23:12:45 -0400 Subject: gtkpod on u 8.4 Message-ID: <4859CEAD.60305@chrisaitken.net> I messed up my daughter's ubuntu 7.10 installation a few weeks ago by thrashing about trying to "fix" permissions after an scp data backup. I finally got around to reinstalling the OS, putting the new ubuntu 8.4 on. I want to install gtkpod again. The first time I did this ( on 7.10) it took me six weeks to get everything working. Is the install pretty much the same for 8.4? There was an svn install, and putting firewire ID in the right place. The reason I don't want to rush into this is that, if possible, I don't want to lose the songs that are already on the iPod. Now her graduation is coming up (this Wednesday) and she is to be the DJ with her iPod. IIRC it's the 4GB "Silver" Nano. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 05:00:45 2008 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:00:45 +1000 Subject: gtkpod on u 8.4 In-Reply-To: <4859CDE5.4090904-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4859CDE5.4090904@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <1213851645.1181.8.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> On Wed, 2008-06-18 at 23:09 -0400, Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > The reason I don't want to rush into this is that, if > possible, I don't want to lose the songs that are already on the iPod. Notwithstanding anything else, you can always just mount the iPod and copy all the files off of it, as in: # mount /dev/sdb2 /mnt/ipod # cp -a /mnt/ipod /home/chris/ipod-backup-that-I-had-better-not-lose or whatever. At least it would give you a backup. That assumes, of course, that you've got enough GB free for the data. That all said, I just plugged a friends iPod in that hadn't been connected in well over a year and which had certainly been accessed with a much earlier version of gtkpod; I was a tinsy bit worried, but it was fine. This wasn't on Ubuntu, mind. AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Operational Dynamics is an operations and engineering consultancy focusing on IT strategy, organizational architecture, systems review, and effective procedures for change management. We actively carry out research and development in these areas on behalf of our clients, and enable successful use of open source in their mission critical enterprises, worldwide. http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ Sydney New York Toronto London -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 05:02:14 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 01:02:14 -0400 Subject: gtkpod on u 8.4 In-Reply-To: <4859CEAD.60305-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4859CEAD.60305@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080619010214.0a2c36d2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > I messed up my daughter's ubuntu 7.10 installation a few weeks ago by > thrashing about trying to "fix" permissions after an scp data backup. > I finally got around to reinstalling the OS, putting the new ubuntu 8.4 > on. I want to install gtkpod again. The first time I did this ( on 7.10) > it took me six weeks to get everything working. Is the install pretty > much the same for 8.4? There was an svn install, and putting firewire ID > in the right place. The reason I don't want to rush into this is that, > if possible, I don't want to lose the songs that are already on the > iPod. Now her graduation is coming up (this Wednesday) and she is to be > the DJ with her iPod. IIRC it's the 4GB "Silver" Nano. You should not need to mess with SVN now, I know there were packages for 7.04, though I've lost the link now. I would check on the Ubuntu forums, that's where I originally found them. When you say 'this Wednesday', I hope you don't mean today ;) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Leela: "Great. We're two days from earth with no food." Bender: "Problem solved. You two fight to the death and I'll cook the loser." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From airton.arantes-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 12:41:00 2008 From: airton.arantes-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Airton Arantes) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 05:41:00 -0700 Subject: Airton Arantes quer conversar Message-ID: <7d8de9500806190541u15fa54f9x@mail.gmail.com> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Airton Arantes deseja manter mais contato com voc? usando os novos produtos do Google. Se voc? j? tem o Gmail ou o Google Talk, visite: http://mail.google.com/mail/b-cb90d130a8-a4bc1ac28d-c9129294a0e363ad Para conversar com Airton Arantes, voc? ter? que clicar nesse link. Para obter o Gmail - uma conta de e-mail gr?tis do Google com mais de 2.800 megabytes de armazenamento - e conversar com Airton Arantes, visite: http://mail.google.com/mail/a-cb90d130a8-a4bc1ac28d-880915799f Ofertas do Gmail: - Mensagens instant?neas dentro do Gmail - Prote??o avan?ada contra spam - Pesquisa integrada para localiza??o de mensagens e uma forma pr?tica de organizar e-mails como "conversas" - Livre-se dos pop-ups ou banners n?o direcionados. Apenas pequenos an?ncios em texto e informa??es relacionadas ao conte?do das suas mensagens s?o exibidos E tudo isso de gra?a. Mas n?o ? s? isso. Ao abrir uma conta do Gmail, voc? tamb?m ter? acesso ao Google Talk, o servi?o de mensagem instant?nea do Google: http://www.google.com/talk/intl/pt-BR/ O Google Talk oferece: - Bate-papo on-line que pode ser usado em qualquer lugar, sem download - Uma lista de contatos sincronizada com sua conta do Gmail - Chamadas de voz de alta qualidade de PC para PC quando voc? fizer download do cliente do Google Talk O Gmail e o Google Talk ainda est?o em fase de desenvolvimento. Estamos trabalhando muito para adicionar novos recursos e fazer melhorias, por isso, ?s vezes pediremos seus coment?rios e sugest?es. Agradecemos a sua ajuda para tornar nossos produtos ainda melhores! Obrigado, A Equipe do Google Para saber mais sobre o Gmail e o Google Talk, visite: http://mail.google.com/mail/help/intl/pt_BR/about.html http://www.google.com/talk/intl/pt-BR/about.html (Se voc? clicar nos URLs desta mensagem e eles n?o funcionarem, copie-os e cole-os na barra de endere?os de seu navegador.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 12:44:10 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 08:44:10 -0400 Subject: [mythtv-gta]: Re:MythTV Frontend Hardware In-Reply-To: <20080618160848.G64738-Ja3L+HSX0kI@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20806061457x345c3c97kcebe60832282539f@mail.gmail.com> <20080617155739.GD31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080618160848.G64738@vex.net> Message-ID: On 6/18/08, Doug Lee wrote: > On Tue, 17 Jun 2008, Colin McGregor wrote: > >> On 6/17/08, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >>>> Further, the on motherboard nVidia video display is not good enough to >>>> support the playback of HD content (grumble). >>> >>> With or without the nvidia binary only driver? Using XvMC? >> >> That was with the nvidia binary only driver (which the Mythbuntu >> people appear to hate) > > I have had no problem getting the proprietary driver working on > Mythbuntu. I could walk you through it if necessary. There was no real problem installing the proprietary driver, just repeated warnings re: how they could not support said driver (i.e.: install not a problem, just made crystal clear they don't like it). >> and I tried several encoding schemes including >> XvMC. In all cases I was at best looking at a stuttering video/audio. > > I have tried XvMC on both Mythbuntu and Knoppmyth with similar results. > Yes I get audio stuttering with XvMC on both distros but only when there > is oncreen text eg: menus or captioning. This applies to both my AMD64 > 2200 (2.2GHz). and dual PIII 1Ghz both using the same MX440AGP-X8 card > with the driver for the intermediate vintage cards (as opposed to the > versions for ancient and recent cards). On Knoppmyth I am using whatever > it came with and on Mythbuntu, the latest driver. The dualPIII is not fast > enough to do HDTV without XvMC but the AMD64 runs smoothly using the > standard video decoder even with captioning displayed. The picture DOES > break up after a few seconds of onscreen menus though. It seems that a > single core AMD64 is not quite fast enough to do everything perfectly but > acceptable in a pinch. I suspect the issue is that the on-board video is @#$%. The motherboard manual claims a GeForce 6100 video chipset, but it appears this is the runt of that litter... > If I underclock the PIII or run it single CPU I always get audio > stuttering using XvMC but it does work correctly at full speed with > nothing but video on the screen. Based on this experience, stuttering > without onscreen text displayed suggests not quite enough CPU power but I > could be wrong as I don't thoroughly understand XvMC. > > P.S. Radeon VE and 9250 cards provide almost exactly the same performance > as the NVIDIA without XvMC but 3d acceleration (OpenGL-open source driver) > MUST be configured or there is at least a 30% slowdown. 3d acceleration > will not work if the NVIDIA driver is installed due to file naming > conflicts. > Doug -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From airton.arantes-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 12:46:47 2008 From: airton.arantes-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Airton Arantes) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:46:47 -0300 Subject: Sorry Message-ID: <7d8de9500806190546y4020e043h30829799c7538166@mail.gmail.com> Sorry folks, but I sent a wrong email, cheers -- Airton Arantes Coelho Filho -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 13:47:24 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:47:24 -0400 Subject: Sorry In-Reply-To: <7d8de9500806190546y4020e043h30829799c7538166-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7d8de9500806190546y4020e043h30829799c7538166@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <485A636C.6090701@alteeve.com> Airton Arantes wrote: > Sorry folks, but I sent a wrong email, > > cheers > Dammit, he apologized. Everyone put your pitchforks and torches away, we weren't fast enough this time. ;) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 16:02:13 2008 From: gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:02:13 -0400 Subject: Sorry In-Reply-To: <485A636C.6090701-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7d8de9500806190546y4020e043h30829799c7538166@mail.gmail.com> <485A636C.6090701@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20080619120213.1405d138.gstrom@teksavvy.com> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:47:24 -0400 Madison Kelly wrote: >Airton Arantes wrote: >> Sorry folks, but I sent a wrong email, >> >> cheers >> > >Dammit, he apologized. > >Everyone put your pitchforks and torches away, we weren't fast enough >this time. > That's easy for you to say, but I have 3 gallons of hot tar and a really pissed off, naked chicken to deal with. -- Glen Strom gstrom-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 16:56:27 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:56:27 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [tillug] Special Visit by Professor Sam Trosow re: Bill C-61] Message-ID: <1213894587.11152.149.camel@leon> Tillsonburg LUG to host special guest speaker for copyright event. -------- Forwarded Message -------- > From: tillugroot > Reply-To: tillug-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org > To: tillug-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org > Subject: [tillug] Special Visit by Professor Sam Trosow re: Bill C-61 > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:47:07 -0000 > > Hello Tillugers, > > The federal government has just tabled Bill C-61, a bill to amend the > Copyright Act. The impact of this bill on the work of the Open Source > community and, frankly, everyone else will be huge. > > In light of this, the Tillsonburg Linux Users Group is pleased to > present Professor Sam Trosow of the University of Western Ontario who > has been invited to come and speak to our community about copyright > and the bill. Professor Trosow is an international expert on > copyright law and the author of "Canadian Copyright: A Citizen's > Guide." You can learn more about him at his website at > www.samtrosow.ca . We are very privileged to have him as our guest at > this time. > > This is another Tillug Special Event so we have booked the main > gallery at the Station Arts Centre for Wednesday, July 16th at 7 p.m. > Please let us know if you plan on attending. We need a head count > because the gallery can hold 75 people and we may need a bigger venue. > We would like this to become an all-Tillsonburg event so that as many > people as possible become aware of what this bill entails. Please > spread the word and send me an email if you or someone you know is > planning on attending. > > Tillug would like to thank Sean Hurley of the Vienna Cafe > (www.theviennacafe.ca) for lining this up. Thanks also to Joe McGuire > of Tinfoil Music (www.tinfoilmusic.net) for helping to sponsor the event. > > > Chris > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tillug/ > > <*> Your email settings: > Individual Email | Traditional > > <*> To change settings online go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tillug/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > <*> To change settings via email: > mailto:tillug-digest-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org > mailto:tillug-fullfeatured-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > tillug-unsubscribe-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 20:41:53 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:41:53 -0400 Subject: Is anyone else having problems with 'ntpq'? Message-ID: <485AC491.7060207@telly.org> I've upgraded the 'ntp' package on one ubuntu system and the new version seems to have problems with the old config file. Specifically, when the server is running, and I type `ntpq -c peers` I get localhost: timed out, nothing received ***Request timed out but when I do `ntpq -c peers time.nrc.ca` I get the desired results with all of the servers listed in ntp.conf responding. I can see that the ntpd server is running but the usual query tools don't work the same say. Any suggestions? Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 21:02:02 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:02:02 -0400 Subject: Is anyone else having problems with 'ntpq'? In-Reply-To: <485AC491.7060207-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <485AC491.7060207@telly.org> Message-ID: <485AC94A.1070505@telly.org> Never mind. I found the config file typo. Sorry to bother you. There are some new features to ntp but they didn't affect my problem after all. (It always happens. Bang on a problem for ages, yet it doesn't get solved until after asking for help.) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 19 22:25:15 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:25:15 -0400 Subject: Is anyone else having problems with 'ntpq'? In-Reply-To: <485AC94A.1070505-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <485AC491.7060207@telly.org> <485AC94A.1070505@telly.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > Never mind. I found the config file typo. Sorry to bother you. There are > some new features to ntp but they didn't affect my problem after all. > > (It always happens. Bang on a problem for ages, yet it doesn't get solved > until after asking for help.) But thats why this list exists! ;) I doubt that it was created to help others ;) LUGs were most likely created by well experienced snobs who sometime have problems and MUST announce everyone that they got in one ;) [An exception to this on TLUG is perhaps Lenart S., who writes on technical issues not bothering to whom he writes, and why, because he likes writing ;)] After 5 minutes they pretend that they found solution themself and want to be admired for how smart they are... ;) Didnt you forget to put localhost in /etc/hosts ? ;) Anyway, I am grateful to many who sometime, against my intention (or may be even against their own intention), did help indeed... ;) Regards, zb. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 20 13:38:46 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:38:46 -0400 Subject: Is anyone else having problems with 'ntpq'? In-Reply-To: References: <485AC491.7060207@telly.org> <485AC94A.1070505@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080620133846.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 06:25:15PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > But thats why this list exists! ;) I doubt that it was created to help > others ;) LUGs were most likely created by well experienced snobs who > sometime have problems and MUST announce everyone that they got in one > ;) [An exception to this on TLUG is perhaps Lenart S., who writes on > technical issues not bothering to whom he writes, and why, because he > likes writing ;)] After 5 minutes they pretend that they found > solution themself and want to be admired for how smart they are... ;) > > Didnt you forget to put localhost in /etc/hosts ? ;) Lack of localhost in /etc/hosts or a missing lo interface can make linux do the strangest things (like no lo means you can't ping anything, including yourself, which can really boggle the mind when you do it). > Anyway, I am grateful to many who sometime, against my intention (or > may be even against their own intention), did help indeed... ;) People help, although I guess often people discuss things instead, which can also be very helpful in some cases. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 20 18:58:42 2008 From: chris-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA at public.gmane.org (Mr Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:58:42 -0400 Subject: gtkpod on u 8.4 In-Reply-To: <20080619010214.0a2c36d2-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <4859CEAD.60305@chrisaitken.net> <20080619010214.0a2c36d2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <485BFDE2.9080103@chrisaitken.net> JoeHill wrote: > Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > > >> I messed up my daughter's ubuntu 7.10 installation a few weeks ago by >> thrashing about trying to "fix" permissions after an scp data backup. >> I finally got around to reinstalling the OS, putting the new ubuntu 8.4 >> on. I want to install gtkpod again. The first time I did this ( on 7.10) >> it took me six weeks to get everything working. Is the install pretty >> much the same for 8.4? There was an svn install, and putting firewire ID >> in the right place. The reason I don't want to rush into this is that, >> if possible, I don't want to lose the songs that are already on the >> iPod. Now her graduation is coming up (this Wednesday) and she is to be >> the DJ with her iPod. IIRC it's the 4GB "Silver" Nano. >> > > You should not need to mess with SVN now, I know there were packages for 7.04, > though I've lost the link now. You mean 8.04? > I would check on the Ubuntu forums, that's where > I originally found them. > Okay, I guess I'll join a ubuntu mailing list. > When you say 'this Wednesday', I hope you don't mean today ;) > I was thinking it was Thursday when I wrote the email. So that's /next/ Wednesday. But now it's /this/ Wednesday. That is June 25th. :) Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 20 23:53:26 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:53:26 -0400 Subject: Low power low end cheap server In-Reply-To: References: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230@mail.gmail.com> <20080616132903.GY31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df280806180605q216471e7g60eb79e5f2f476c0@mail.gmail.com> <20080618144624.GH31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200806190124.m5J1OC6V021783@zanzibar.vif.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0806201653i16228590x438be3fdcef7624a@mail.gmail.com> Page under construction. Was there something there before or was the domain mistyped? On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > vertaxis wrote: >> >> I think you'd be hard pressed to build a solution for under $350.00. I'd >> recommend a mini-itx board from Via or Jetway with a C7 processor. It'll >> fix in any ATX case, and the Ram is standard DDR or DDR2. Minipc.ca has >> closed, so the only reliable supplier I know is www.logicsupply.com in the >> US. > > Didn't know about them. We've been dealing with minibox.com . > > Mel. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 21 00:21:38 2008 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:21:38 -0400 Subject: Low power low end cheap server In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0806201653i16228590x438be3fdcef7624a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230@mail.gmail.com> <20080616132903.GY31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df280806180605q216471e7g60eb79e5f2f476c0@mail.gmail.com> <20080618144624.GH31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200806190124.m5J1OC6V021783@zanzibar.vif.com> <3a97ef0806201653i16228590x438be3fdcef7624a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Tyler Aviss wrote: > Page under construction. Was there something there before or was the > domain mistyped? Sorry about that, when I Google for it, I get there, but the URL is *really* http://www.mini-box.com/site/index.html Mel. > > On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: >> vertaxis wrote: >>> I think you'd be hard pressed to build a solution for under $350.00. I'd >>> recommend a mini-itx board from Via or Jetway with a C7 processor. It'll >>> fix in any ATX case, and the Ram is standard DDR or DDR2. Minipc.ca has >>> closed, so the only reliable supplier I know is www.logicsupply.com in the >>> US. >> Didn't know about them. We've been dealing with minibox.com . >> >> Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 21 00:26:58 2008 From: ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (ron) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:26:58 -0400 Subject: Low power low end cheap server In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0806201653i16228590x438be3fdcef7624a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280806151857p69abf9e9sd58f16f466b6f230@mail.gmail.com> <20080616132903.GY31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1f13df280806180605q216471e7g60eb79e5f2f476c0@mail.gmail.com> <20080618144624.GH31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200806190124.m5J1OC6V021783@zanzibar.vif.com> <3a97ef0806201653i16228590x438be3fdcef7624a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <485C4AD2.4070001@sympatico.ca> Tyler Aviss wrote: >Page under construction. Was there something there before or was the >domain mistyped? > >On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Mel Wilson wrote: > > >>vertaxis wrote: >> >> >>>I think you'd be hard pressed to build a solution for under $350.00. I'd >>>recommend a mini-itx board from Via or Jetway with a C7 processor. It'll >>>fix in any ATX case, and the Ram is standard DDR or DDR2. Minipc.ca has >>>closed, so the only reliable supplier I know is www.logicsupply.com in the >>>US. >>> >>> >>Didn't know about them. We've been dealing with minibox.com . >> >> Mel. >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> >> Works for me at 8: 25 PM Ron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 21 17:35:55 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:35:55 -0400 Subject: gtkpod on u 8.4 In-Reply-To: <485BFDE2.9080103-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4859CEAD.60305@chrisaitken.net> <20080619010214.0a2c36d2@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <485BFDE2.9080103@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <20080621133555.6838f650@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > JoeHill wrote: > > Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > > > > > >> I messed up my daughter's ubuntu 7.10 installation a few weeks ago by > >> thrashing about trying to "fix" permissions after an scp data backup. > >> I finally got around to reinstalling the OS, putting the new ubuntu 8.4 > >> on. I want to install gtkpod again. The first time I did this ( on 7.10) > >> it took me six weeks to get everything working. Is the install pretty > >> much the same for 8.4? There was an svn install, and putting firewire ID > >> in the right place. The reason I don't want to rush into this is that, > >> if possible, I don't want to lose the songs that are already on the > >> iPod. Now her graduation is coming up (this Wednesday) and she is to be > >> the DJ with her iPod. IIRC it's the 4GB "Silver" Nano. > >> > > > > You should not need to mess with SVN now, I know there were packages for > > 7.04, though I've lost the link now. > You mean 8.04? Actually, I meant 7.10, which was the version I found packages for way back when. I would be stunned beyond belief if no one had made packages for 8.04. > > I would check on the Ubuntu forums, that's where > > I originally found them. > > > Okay, I guess I'll join a ubuntu mailing list. Just do a search on the Ubuntu forums. I did a quick check and I _think_ this is the repo you want: http://ppa.launchpad.net/ipod-touch/ubuntu I am almost positive that when I set this up on my Gutsy system (now dead), this is the repo I used, but it also has an entry for Hardy now. > > When you say 'this Wednesday', I hope you don't mean today ;) > > > I was thinking it was Thursday when I wrote the email. So that's /next/ > Wednesday. But now it's /this/ Wednesday. That is June 25th. > > :) tick tick tick ;) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: "In the event of an emergency, my ass can be used as a floatation device." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 21 18:25:35 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:25:35 -0400 Subject: A Perl Chicken-and-egg problem Message-ID: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> Hello I dabble in Perl occasionally, and when I have to use modules or objects in Perl, it is a dusty corner for me where the documentation is normally unhelpful. I need to use an array which is in one of these modules -- the module name is not important -- where the actual array is pointed to by the variable it passes to me. For example, my @A = myobj::files::list(params); // same declaration as in the docs foreach $x (@A) { print "$x\n"; } yields nothing except a pointer to an array -- something like ARRAY(#A1B2C3D4) in the output. This causes me to have to alter my code to do this: ?my @A = myobj::files::list(params); foreach $x (@A) { for ($i = 0; $i < $max; $i++) { print "$x->[$i]\n"; } } This, I think, gives the output to the array pointed to by $x (I say "I think", since my copy of O'Reilly's Programming Perl 2e says that you dereference an array using "=>" not "->"). And the reality is worse, since the module I am using actually returns a pointer to a 2-dimensional array: my ?@A = myobj::files::list(params); foreach $x (@A) { for ($i = 0; $i < 16; $i++) { for $j = 0; $j < 16; $j++) { print "$x->[$i][$j]\n"; } } } This kind of works. I get the output I expect, except for one thing. I don't know the array size, so I am hard-coding the upper limit of the loops. $#x to find the size doesn't work, since (1) $x merely points to an array, and (2) the array is two dimensional. Any suggestions? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 21 18:58:33 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:58:33 -0400 Subject: A Perl Chicken-and-egg problem In-Reply-To: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> References: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <485D4F59.9090300@alteeve.com> It is very common for module's methods to return array and hash references instead of a copy of an array or hash to save memory and improve speed. Try: my $A = myobj::files::list(params); // same declaration as in the docs foreach $x (@{$A}) { print "$x\n"; } Madi Paul King wrote: > Hello > > I dabble in Perl occasionally, and when I have to use modules or objects > in Perl, it is a dusty corner for me where the documentation is normally > unhelpful. > > I need to use an array which is in one of these modules -- the module > name is not important -- where the actual array is pointed to by the > variable it passes to me. For example, > > my @A = myobj::files::list(params); // same declaration as in the docs > foreach $x (@A) { > print "$x\n"; > } > > yields nothing except a pointer to an array -- something like > > ARRAY(#A1B2C3D4) > > in the output. This causes me to have to alter my code to do this: > > ?my @A = myobj::files::list(params); > foreach $x (@A) { > for ($i = 0; $i < $max; $i++) { > print "$x->[$i]\n"; > } > } > > This, I think, gives the output to the array pointed to by $x (I say "I > think", since my copy of O'Reilly's Programming Perl 2e says that you > dereference an array using "=>" not "->"). And the reality is worse, > since the module I am using actually returns a pointer to a > 2-dimensional array: > > my ?@A = myobj::files::list(params); > foreach $x (@A) { > for ($i = 0; $i < 16; $i++) { > for $j = 0; $j < 16; $j++) { > print "$x->[$i][$j]\n"; > } > } > } > > This kind of works. I get the output I expect, except for one thing. I > don't know the array size, so I am hard-coding the upper limit of the > loops. $#x to find the size doesn't work, since (1) $x merely points to > an array, and (2) the array is two dimensional. Any suggestions? > > Paul King > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 21 18:58:33 2008 From: rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:58:33 -0400 Subject: A Perl Chicken-and-egg problem In-Reply-To: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> References: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <5bef4baf0806211158x45989af6we7b42af4e79f527c@mail.gmail.com> Hi Paul, my @A = myobj::files::list(params); // same declaration as in the docs > foreach $x (@A) { > print "$x\n"; > } > First, I take it that somewhere on the disk you have a file called myobj/ files.pm and there is a "sub list {...}" within it? Also, "params" should be written "@params". Also, please make sure you "use strict;" and "use warnings;" in your programs, and then you will need to lexicalize your 'foreach' loop iteration variables, making it "foreach my $x ( ... ) { ... }". On to your ultimate code example: > my ?@A = myobj::files::list(params); > foreach $x (@A) { > for ($i = 0; $i < 16; $i++) { > for $j = 0; $j < 16; $j++) { > print "$x->[$i][$j]\n"; > } > } > } > > This kind of works. I get the output I expect, except for one thing. I > don't know the array size, so I am hard-coding the upper limit of the > loops. $#x to find the size doesn't work, since (1) $x merely points to > an array, and (2) the array is two dimensional. Any suggestions? There are two ways to cope with this. First, you _can_ continue to work with the C-style approach you have written above and improve it by using the $#ARRAY syntax, but you need to give the $#ARRAY syntax what it needs in order to work. my ?@A = myobj::files::list(@params); foreach $x (@A) { for ($i = 0; $i < $#{@$x}; $i++) { for $j = 0; $j < $#{@{$x->[$i]}; $j++) { print "$x->[$i][$j]\n"; } } } Here's a small program that might make the technique a bit more explicit. #!perl use warnings; use strict; my $a = [ 'a' .. 'z', [10 .. 15] ]; print $#{@$a} . "\n"; print $#{@{$a->[$#{@$a}]}} . "\n"; print $a->[ $#{@$a} ][ $#{@{$a->[ $#{@$a} ]}} ] . "\n"; exit 0; $a is a reference to an array, so it would be analogous to a single element within your @A array. I stuff it with the characters 'a' through 'z', which is 26 elements, though the final element has array element index 25 (since arrays start at index 0). Then I tack on a 27th element (array index 26), which is itself a reference to an array which contains the integers 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. This is a list of 6 elements, so its last index has a value 5. The output of the program is three lines. The first line is "26". The second line is "5". The third line is "15". This is the old C-style of doing things. Unless you actually need to know array indices for some other reason then it's not what I would recommend. Here's a much simpler Perl-style approach. my ?@A = myobj::files::list(@params); foreach my $x ( @A ) { foreach my $y ( @$x ) { foreach my $z ( @$y ) { print "$z\n"; } } } Other simplifications exist, which may or may not be appropriate to your situation. Here are some that would work with this (admittedly myopic) example: foreach my $x ( myobj::files::list(@params) ) { foreach my $y ( @$x ) { print "$_\n" foreach @$y; } } In much the same way that it's possible to program FORTRAN in any language, it's possible to program C in Perl. I recommend programming Perl in Perl. :-) An excellent book if you are interested in getting more into the idioms of programming Perl-as-Perl is "Perl Cookbook", 2nd Edition, by Torkington and Christiansen, published by O'Reilly. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596003135/ Cheers, - Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 21 19:05:43 2008 From: tentra-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Seneca Cunningham) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:05:43 -0400 Subject: A Perl Chicken-and-egg problem In-Reply-To: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> References: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <5b4f16d70806211205s19b8f0f0oc147188e01bebcc4@mail.gmail.com> 2008/6/21 Paul King : > my ?@A = myobj::files::list(params); > foreach $x (@A) { > for ($i = 0; $i < 16; $i++) { > for $j = 0; $j < 16; $j++) { > print "$x->[$i][$j]\n"; > } > } > } > > This kind of works. I get the output I expect, except for one thing. I > don't know the array size, so I am hard-coding the upper limit of the > loops. $#x to find the size doesn't work, since (1) $x merely points to > an array, and (2) the array is two dimensional. Any suggestions? If you care about the indices, you could use the form: foreach my $x (@A) { foreach my $i (0 .. (@$x -1)) { foreach my $j (0 .. (@{$x->[$i]} - 1)) { print "$x->[$i][$j]\n"; } } } If you don't care about the indices, you could use the form: foreach my $x (@A) { foreach my $i (@$x) { foreach my $j (@$i) { print "$j\n"; } } } Both forms rely upon dereferencing the arrayrefs. The perldoc page "perlref" has more details about referencing and dereferencing values. -- Seneca Cunningham From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 21 19:25:14 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:25:14 -0400 Subject: A Perl Chicken-and-egg problem In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0806211158x45989af6we7b42af4e79f527c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> <5bef4baf0806211158x45989af6we7b42af4e79f527c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1214076314.9137.54.camel@aragorn> On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 14:58 -0400, Richard Dice wrote: > Hi Paul, > > > my @A = myobj::files::list(params); // same declaration as in > the docs > foreach $x (@A) { > print "$x\n"; > } > > First, I take it that somewhere on the disk you have a file called > myobj/files.pm and there is a "sub list {...}" within it? Also, > "params" should be written "@params". To slavishly follow what is in the spirit of the documentation: ?my @A = myobj::files::list($a, $b, $c, ...); I think there are about 6 or 7 parameters (although I suppose an array would be more correct than the above code I had). I let Perl install the modules through CPAN (perl -MCPAN -e shell), so Perl should have taken care of the installation. Thanks for the rest of your code suggestions. It is a big help. Paul King > > Also, please make sure you "use strict;" and "use warnings;" in your > programs, and then you will need to lexicalize your 'foreach' loop > iteration variables, making it "foreach my $x ( ... ) { ... }". > > On to your ultimate code example: > > my ?@A = myobj::files::list(params); > foreach $x (@A) { > for ($i = 0; $i < 16; $i++) { > for $j = 0; $j < 16; $j++) { > print "$x->[$i][$j]\n"; > } > } > } > > This kind of works. I get the output I expect, except for one > thing. I > don't know the array size, so I am hard-coding the upper limit > of the > loops. $#x to find the size doesn't work, since (1) $x merely > points to > an array, and (2) the array is two dimensional. Any > suggestions? > > There are two ways to cope with this. > > First, you _can_ continue to work with the C-style approach you have > written above and improve it by using the $#ARRAY syntax, but you need > to give the $#ARRAY syntax what it needs in order to work. > > my ?@A = myobj::files::list(@params); > foreach $x (@A) { > for ($i = 0; $i < $#{@$x}; $i++) { > for $j = 0; $j < $#{@{$x->[$i]}; $j++) { > print "$x->[$i][$j]\n"; > } > } > } > > > Here's a small program that might make the technique a bit more > explicit. > > #! > perl > > use warnings; > use strict; > > my $a = [ 'a' .. 'z', [10 .. 15] ]; > > print $#{@$a} . "\n"; > print $#{@{$a->[$#{@$a}]}} . "\n"; > print $a->[ $#{@$a} ][ $#{@{$a->[ $#{@$a} ]}} ] . "\n"; > > exit 0; > > > $a is a reference to an array, so it would be analogous to a single > element within your @A array. > > I stuff it with the characters 'a' through 'z', which is 26 elements, > though the final element has array element index 25 (since arrays > start at index 0). Then I tack on a 27th element (array index 26), > which is itself a reference to an array which contains the integers > 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. This is a list of 6 elements, so its last > index has a value 5. > > The output of the program is three lines. The first line is "26". > The second line is "5". The third line is "15". > > This is the old C-style of doing things. Unless you actually need to > know array indices for some other reason then it's not what I would > recommend. Here's a much simpler Perl-style approach. > > my ?@A = myobj::files::list(@params); > foreach my $x ( @A ) { > foreach my $y ( @$x ) { > foreach my $z ( @$y ) { > print "$z\n"; > } > } > } > > > Other simplifications exist, which may or may not be appropriate to > your situation. Here are some that would work with this (admittedly > myopic) example: > > foreach my $x ( myobj::files::list(@params) ) { > foreach my $y ( @$x ) { > print "$_\n" foreach @$y; > } > } > > > In much the same way that it's possible to program FORTRAN in any > language, it's possible to program C in Perl. I recommend programming > Perl in Perl. :-) An excellent book if you are interested in getting > more into the idioms of programming Perl-as-Perl is "Perl Cookbook", > 2nd Edition, by Torkington and Christiansen, published by O'Reilly. > http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596003135/ > > Cheers, > - Richard > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 21 19:27:52 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:27:52 -0400 Subject: A Perl Chicken-and-egg problem In-Reply-To: <5b4f16d70806211205s19b8f0f0oc147188e01bebcc4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> <5b4f16d70806211205s19b8f0f0oc147188e01bebcc4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1214076472.9137.57.camel@aragorn> Thanks for referring me to perlref. I recall that it is possible to actually reverse-engineer the data structure of the module being called. Is it in perlref, or is it somewhere else? Paul King On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 15:05 -0400, Seneca Cunningham wrote: > 2008/6/21 Paul King : > > my ?@A = myobj::files::list(params); > > foreach $x (@A) { > > for ($i = 0; $i < 16; $i++) { > > for $j = 0; $j < 16; $j++) { > > print "$x->[$i][$j]\n"; > > } > > } > > } > > > > This kind of works. I get the output I expect, except for one thing. I > > don't know the array size, so I am hard-coding the upper limit of the > > loops. $#x to find the size doesn't work, since (1) $x merely points to > > an array, and (2) the array is two dimensional. Any suggestions? > > If you care about the indices, you could use the form: > > foreach my $x (@A) { > foreach my $i (0 .. (@$x -1)) { > foreach my $j (0 .. (@{$x->[$i]} - 1)) { > print "$x->[$i][$j]\n"; > } > } > } > > If you don't care about the indices, you could use the form: > > foreach my $x (@A) { > foreach my $i (@$x) { > foreach my $j (@$i) { > print "$j\n"; > } > } > } > > Both forms rely upon dereferencing the arrayrefs. The perldoc page > "perlref" has more details about referencing and dereferencing values. > > -- > Seneca Cunningham > > N'T.?)m?n2-h',60+j^?<%i -CRPDDi-j[?)"?)+- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 21 19:32:10 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:32:10 -0400 Subject: A Perl Chicken-and-egg problem In-Reply-To: <485D4F59.9090300-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> <485D4F59.9090300@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1214076730.9137.63.camel@aragorn> On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 14:58 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > It is very common for module's methods to return array and hash > references instead of a copy of an array or hash to save memory and > improve speed. Try: > > my $A = myobj::files::list(params); // same declaration as in the docs Yes, I thought about using "$A" instead of "@A". I just didn't know what to do with it afterward. The code suggestion (Synopsis section) actually uses @A. There are errors and vague stuff in other places in the docs also. After get this module more or less figured out, I have a mind to re-write the documentation. Where and how do I submit it? Anyone? Paul King > foreach $x (@{$A}) { > print "$x\n"; > } > > Madi > > Paul King wrote: > > Hello > > > > I dabble in Perl occasionally, and when I have to use modules or objects > > in Perl, it is a dusty corner for me where the documentation is normally > > unhelpful. > > > > I need to use an array which is in one of these modules -- the module > > name is not important -- where the actual array is pointed to by the > > variable it passes to me. For example, > > > > my @A = myobj::files::list(params); // same declaration as in the docs > > foreach $x (@A) { > > print "$x\n"; > > } > > > > yields nothing except a pointer to an array -- something like > > > > ARRAY(#A1B2C3D4) > > > > in the output. This causes me to have to alter my code to do this: > > > > ?my @A = myobj::files::list(params); > > foreach $x (@A) { > > for ($i = 0; $i < $max; $i++) { > > print "$x->[$i]\n"; > > } > > } > > > > This, I think, gives the output to the array pointed to by $x (I say "I > > think", since my copy of O'Reilly's Programming Perl 2e says that you > > dereference an array using "=>" not "->"). And the reality is worse, > > since the module I am using actually returns a pointer to a > > 2-dimensional array: > > > > my ?@A = myobj::files::list(params); > > foreach $x (@A) { > > for ($i = 0; $i < 16; $i++) { > > for $j = 0; $j < 16; $j++) { > > print "$x->[$i][$j]\n"; > > } > > } > > } > > > > This kind of works. I get the output I expect, except for one thing. I > > don't know the array size, so I am hard-coding the upper limit of the > > loops. $#x to find the size doesn't work, since (1) $x merely points to > > an array, and (2) the array is two dimensional. Any suggestions? > > > > Paul King > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > r -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 21 19:27:33 2008 From: rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:27:33 -0400 Subject: A Perl Chicken-and-egg problem In-Reply-To: <1214076472.9137.57.camel@aragorn> References: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> <5b4f16d70806211205s19b8f0f0oc147188e01bebcc4@mail.gmail.com> <1214076472.9137.57.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <5bef4baf0806211227y25592833mdf2ed3e841ab6a2c@mail.gmail.com> What you want is a Perl module called Data::Dumper. It is completely brilliant. It should come packaged with your Perl. Otherwise, install it from CPAN. "use Data::Dumper qw ( Dumper );" should go at the top of your program. And then, print Dumper(\@A); This would show you marvellous things about your data structure. It's essential for debugging and otherwise understanding what your complex data structures look like. Cheers, - Richard On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Paul King wrote: > Thanks for referring me to perlref. I recall that it is possible to > actually reverse-engineer the data structure of the module being called. > Is it in perlref, or is it somewhere else? > > Paul King > > On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 15:05 -0400, Seneca Cunningham wrote: > > 2008/6/21 Paul King : > > > my ?@A = myobj::files::list(params); > > > foreach $x (@A) { > > > for ($i = 0; $i < 16; $i++) { > > > for $j = 0; $j < 16; $j++) { > > > print "$x->[$i][$j]\n"; > > > } > > > } > > > } > > > > > > This kind of works. I get the output I expect, except for one thing. I > > > don't know the array size, so I am hard-coding the upper limit of the > > > loops. $#x to find the size doesn't work, since (1) $x merely points to > > > an array, and (2) the array is two dimensional. Any suggestions? > > > > If you care about the indices, you could use the form: > > > > foreach my $x (@A) { > > foreach my $i (0 .. (@$x -1)) { > > foreach my $j (0 .. (@{$x->[$i]} - 1)) { > > print "$x->[$i][$j]\n"; > > } > > } > > } > > > > If you don't care about the indices, you could use the form: > > > > foreach my $x (@A) { > > foreach my $i (@$x) { > > foreach my $j (@$i) { > > print "$j\n"; > > } > > } > > } > > > > Both forms rely upon dereferencing the arrayrefs. The perldoc page > > "perlref" has more details about referencing and dereferencing values. > > > > -- > > Seneca Cunningham > > > > N 'T .?) m?n2 - h',60+j^?<%i -CRP DDi-j[?)"?)+- > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 22 20:00:24 2008 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Lindsay A. B. Moniz) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:00:24 -0400 Subject: gtkpod on u 8.4 In-Reply-To: <4859CEAD.60305-n/jUll39koHNgV/OU4+dkA@public.gmane.org> References: <4859CEAD.60305@chrisaitken.net> Message-ID: <485EAF58.6010209@sympatico.ca> Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > I messed up my daughter's ubuntu 7.10 installation a few weeks ago by > thrashing about trying to "fix" permissions after an scp data backup. > I finally got around to reinstalling the OS, putting the new ubuntu > 8.4 on. I want to install gtkpod again. The first time I did this ( on > 7.10) it took me six weeks to get everything working. Is the install > pretty much the same for 8.4? There was an svn install, and putting > firewire ID in the right place. The reason I don't want to rush into > this is that, if possible, I don't want to lose the songs that are > already on the iPod. Now her graduation is coming up (this Wednesday) > and she is to be the DJ with her iPod. IIRC it's the 4GB "Silver" Nano. > > Chris Nothing special is needed to make the iPod work with Ubuntu 8.04. I don't recall trying gtkpod, but my daughter is using it with rythmbox. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 22 20:24:29 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 16:24:29 -0400 Subject: gtkpod on u 8.4 In-Reply-To: <485EAF58.6010209-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4859CEAD.60305@chrisaitken.net> <485EAF58.6010209@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20080622162429.553f9703@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Lindsay A. B. Moniz wrote: > Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > > I messed up my daughter's ubuntu 7.10 installation a few weeks ago by > > thrashing about trying to "fix" permissions after an scp data backup. > > I finally got around to reinstalling the OS, putting the new ubuntu > > 8.4 on. I want to install gtkpod again. The first time I did this ( on > > 7.10) it took me six weeks to get everything working. Is the install > > pretty much the same for 8.4? There was an svn install, and putting > > firewire ID in the right place. The reason I don't want to rush into > > this is that, if possible, I don't want to lose the songs that are > > already on the iPod. Now her graduation is coming up (this Wednesday) > > and she is to be the DJ with her iPod. IIRC it's the 4GB "Silver" Nano. > > > > Chris > Nothing special is needed to make the iPod work with Ubuntu 8.04. I > don't recall trying gtkpod, but my daughter is using it with rythmbox. Careful, it does kinda depend on the device. What version of libgpod and rhythmbox? iPod Classic and 5th gen Nanos are only supported as of libgpod 0.6.0, IIRC. If the latest iPods are working with 8.04 out of the box, that is really really great work on the part of the Ubuntu team. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Professor: Being captain is about intuition and heart. A good captain can't have either one. That's why cold, logical Bender is perfect for the job. Bender: Well, I do think of human life as expendable. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 22 21:43:33 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 17:43:33 -0400 Subject: A Perl Chicken-and-egg problem In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0806211158x45989af6we7b42af4e79f527c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> <5bef4baf0806211158x45989af6we7b42af4e79f527c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080622214333.GJ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 02:58:33PM -0400, Richard Dice wrote: > print $#{@$a} . "\n"; > print $#{@{$a->[$#{@$a}]}} . "\n"; > print $a->[ $#{@$a} ][ $#{@{$a->[ $#{@$a} ]}} ] . "\n"; And that kind of syntax is why I hate perl more and more as I use it. Many languages grow on you with use. perl does the opposite since the more you learn the more you realize what an ugly inconsistent disaster of a language it is. Yuck! -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 01:56:06 2008 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:56:06 -0400 Subject: gtkpod on u 8.4 In-Reply-To: <20080622162429.553f9703-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <4859CEAD.60305@chrisaitken.net> <485EAF58.6010209@sympatico.ca> <20080622162429.553f9703@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <485F02B6.1010701@sympatico.ca> JoeHill wrote: > Lindsay A. B. Moniz wrote: > > >> Mr Chris Aitken wrote: >> >>> I messed up my daughter's ubuntu 7.10 installation a few weeks ago by >>> thrashing about trying to "fix" permissions after an scp data backup. >>> I finally got around to reinstalling the OS, putting the new ubuntu >>> 8.4 on. I want to install gtkpod again. The first time I did this ( on >>> 7.10) it took me six weeks to get everything working. Is the install >>> pretty much the same for 8.4? There was an svn install, and putting >>> firewire ID in the right place. The reason I don't want to rush into >>> this is that, if possible, I don't want to lose the songs that are >>> already on the iPod. Now her graduation is coming up (this Wednesday) >>> and she is to be the DJ with her iPod. IIRC it's the 4GB "Silver" Nano. >>> >>> Chris >>> >> Nothing special is needed to make the iPod work with Ubuntu 8.04. I >> don't recall trying gtkpod, but my daughter is using it with rythmbox. >> > > Careful, it does kinda depend on the device. What version of libgpod and > rhythmbox? > > iPod Classic and 5th gen Nanos are only supported as of libgpod 0.6.0, IIRC. > > If the latest iPods are working with 8.04 out of the box, that is really really > great work on the part of the Ubuntu team. I don't have access to 8.04 at the moment, but I recall checking to make sure it had libgpod 0.6.0, as per previous instructions :-). It was the reason I upgraded my daughter's distro. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 02:09:18 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:09:18 -0400 Subject: gtkpod on u 8.4 In-Reply-To: <485F02B6.1010701-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4859CEAD.60305@chrisaitken.net> <485EAF58.6010209@sympatico.ca> <20080622162429.553f9703@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <485F02B6.1010701@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20080622220918.51d4f654@node1.freeyourmachine.org> John Moniz wrote: > JoeHill wrote: > > Lindsay A. B. Moniz wrote: > > > > > >> Mr Chris Aitken wrote: > >> > >>> I messed up my daughter's ubuntu 7.10 installation a few weeks ago by > >>> thrashing about trying to "fix" permissions after an scp data backup. > >>> I finally got around to reinstalling the OS, putting the new ubuntu > >>> 8.4 on. I want to install gtkpod again. The first time I did this ( on > >>> 7.10) it took me six weeks to get everything working. Is the install > >>> pretty much the same for 8.4? There was an svn install, and putting > >>> firewire ID in the right place. The reason I don't want to rush into > >>> this is that, if possible, I don't want to lose the songs that are > >>> already on the iPod. Now her graduation is coming up (this Wednesday) > >>> and she is to be the DJ with her iPod. IIRC it's the 4GB "Silver" Nano. > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >> Nothing special is needed to make the iPod work with Ubuntu 8.04. I > >> don't recall trying gtkpod, but my daughter is using it with rythmbox. > >> > > > > Careful, it does kinda depend on the device. What version of libgpod and > > rhythmbox? > > > > iPod Classic and 5th gen Nanos are only supported as of libgpod 0.6.0, IIRC. > > > > If the latest iPods are working with 8.04 out of the box, that is really > > really great work on the part of the Ubuntu team. > I don't have access to 8.04 at the moment, but I recall checking to make > sure it had libgpod 0.6.0, as per previous instructions :-). It was the > reason I upgraded my daughter's distro. /joe goes to download Ubuntu 8.04 -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: I get a good vibe from this place. Nice long dinner table, quiet well-behaved spiders, graveyards adjacent.... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 13:56:51 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:56:51 -0400 Subject: A Perl Chicken-and-egg problem In-Reply-To: <20080622214333.GJ31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> <5bef4baf0806211158x45989af6we7b42af4e79f527c@mail.gmail.com> <20080622214333.GJ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <485FABA3.1060608@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 02:58:33PM -0400, Richard Dice wrote: >> print $#{@$a} . "\n"; >> print $#{@{$a->[$#{@$a}]}} . "\n"; >> print $a->[ $#{@$a} ][ $#{@{$a->[ $#{@$a} ]}} ] . "\n"; > > And that kind of syntax is why I hate perl more and more as I use it. > Many languages grow on you with use. perl does the opposite since the > more you learn the more you realize what an ugly inconsistent disaster > of a language it is. Yuck! > Perl has a particular ability to be made insanely complex, if that is your goal. That said, it can also be made elegantly clear and simple if, again, that is your goal. Please don't trash a language because of ... abuse? ... but some users of it. Madi, a mad perl fan who should often simply be ignored. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 15:49:30 2008 From: rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:49:30 -0400 Subject: A Perl Chicken-and-egg problem In-Reply-To: <20080622214333.GJ31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> <5bef4baf0806211158x45989af6we7b42af4e79f527c@mail.gmail.com> <20080622214333.GJ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <5bef4baf0806230849u16c2ae4emf9b8d97d93e28bd0@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 02:58:33PM -0400, Richard Dice wrote: > > print $#{@$a} . "\n"; > > print $#{@{$a->[$#{@$a}]}} . "\n"; > > print $a->[ $#{@$a} ][ $#{@{$a->[ $#{@$a} ]}} ] . "\n"; > > And that kind of syntax is why I hate perl more and more as I use it. > Many languages grow on you with use. perl does the opposite since the > more you learn the more you realize what an ugly inconsistent disaster > of a language it is. Yuck! > You may have noticed that this was the approach to the problem I didn't recommend. This is the trying-to-be-C-with-Perl. (With the added feature that this actually works, while there is no runtime C equivalent without going off into user-created functions for keeping track of the # of members in your linked lists.) This example is also contrived, so I could demonstrate the syntax layered on itself in my levels (and through multidimensional arrays). I would never say that this was clean. It is however quite self-consistent. The first line shows the base syntax, which isn't so bad. The second line is that syntax indirected through a 2nd level of multidimensional array. The third line is going into the 3rd dimension. Recall that all 3 levels of dimensionality can be sized to unknown at compile-time and are dynamically (and transparently) reallocatable. So, for this much power the syntax is the trade-off. And there are expansion modules that make this cleaner too, if you're interested in using them (like PDL, which is essentially a Matlab-clone embedded within Perl). Which is how most other languages try to do it. As this is Perl, there's more than one way to do it -- if what you found particularly objectionable was the last line of those 3 print statements, any sane person (or person who knows Perl and _isn't_ trying to make a contrived example for the sake of demonstrating an aspect of the language syntax) would have written that as: print $a->[-1][-1] . "\n"; This is saying "I don't care what the element index # is on any of the higher-level dimensions, just give me the _last_ element". Better? And again, going back to Paul's original question, the following is both self-consistent and beautifully clean, and was my recommended approach: foreach my $x ( myobj::files::list(@params) ) { foreach my $y ( @$x ) { print "$_\n" foreach @$y; } } Cheers, - Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 16:22:20 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:22:20 -0400 Subject: A Perl Chicken-and-egg problem In-Reply-To: <485FABA3.1060608-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> <5bef4baf0806211158x45989af6we7b42af4e79f527c@mail.gmail.com> <20080622214333.GJ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <485FABA3.1060608@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20080623162220.GK31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 09:56:51AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Perl has a particular ability to be made insanely complex, if that is > your goal. That said, it can also be made elegantly clear and simple if, > again, that is your goal. > > Please don't trash a language because of ... abuse? ... but some users > of it. $#foo is simply an ugly solution. So is $$foo and $@foo, which are also often necesary to make sensible code. That is hardly abuse, simply ugly syntax. Not that *foo and &foo is nice in C either, but at least C isn't quite as ugly. Why is it %bar = ... but then $bar{'blah'} ? Sometimes @foo, othertimes $foo[x], which has nothing to do with $foo. Argh! Damn useful language, but oh so ugly and stupid in syntax. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 16:25:15 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:25:15 -0400 Subject: A Perl Chicken-and-egg problem In-Reply-To: <5bef4baf0806230849u16c2ae4emf9b8d97d93e28bd0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1214072735.9137.47.camel@aragorn> <5bef4baf0806211158x45989af6we7b42af4e79f527c@mail.gmail.com> <20080622214333.GJ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <5bef4baf0806230849u16c2ae4emf9b8d97d93e28bd0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080623162515.GL31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 11:49:30AM -0400, Richard Dice wrote: > You may have noticed that this was the approach to the problem I didn't > recommend. This is the trying-to-be-C-with-Perl. (With the added feature > that this actually works, while there is no runtime C equivalent without > going off into user-created functions for keeping track of the # of members > in your linked lists.) C isn't exactly something one should try to be most of the time. > This example is also contrived, so I could demonstrate the syntax layered on > itself in my levels (and through multidimensional arrays). I would never > say that this was clean. It is however quite self-consistent. The first > line shows the base syntax, which isn't so bad. The second line is that > syntax indirected through a 2nd level of multidimensional array. The third > line is going into the 3rd dimension. Recall that all 3 levels of > dimensionality can be sized to unknown at compile-time and are dynamically > (and transparently) reallocatable. So, for this much power the syntax is > the trade-off. And there are expansion modules that make this cleaner too, > if you're interested in using them (like PDL, which is essentially a > Matlab-clone embedded within Perl). Which is how most other languages try > to do it. I don't much like arrays. Lists implemented as a proper type in a language is much nicer. > As this is Perl, there's more than one way to do it -- if what you found > particularly objectionable was the last line of those 3 print statements, > any sane person (or person who knows Perl and _isn't_ trying to make a > contrived example for the sake of demonstrating an aspect of the language > syntax) would have written that as: > > print $a->[-1][-1] . "\n"; > > This is saying "I don't care what the element index # is on any of the > higher-level dimensions, just give me the _last_ element". > > Better? > > And again, going back to Paul's original question, the following is both > self-consistent and beautifully clean, and was my recommended approach: > > foreach my $x ( myobj::files::list(@params) ) { > foreach my $y ( @$x ) { > print "$_\n" foreach @$y; > } > } I am still very unhappy about @$x being valid syntax at all. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 17:47:59 2008 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:47:59 -0400 Subject: linuxizing a Toshiba Toughbook CF-M34 mark 7, some help needed In-Reply-To: <20080602005237.GZ26279-vuApnpmWkJ9FpmmLyGmH5+/MzcrNtJ/p@public.gmane.org> References: <20080602005237.GZ26279@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <20080623174758.GI3143@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 08:52:37PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Hey Guys and Gals ! > We just got a Panasonic Toughbook with a touchscreen. > I'm grooming is as our next POS system > it's a CF-M34mk7 model# CF-M34CGFFKM, Pentium M 1.0GHz ULV (Centrino) UPDATE; touchscreen working, mostly. Seneca has poked away at the thing enough to get the touchscreen going ! the details of drivers and xorg.conf settings are still a bit fuzzy, but I'll try to get a detailed how-to up on the unnoficial touchpad wiki asap. thenks everybody fer the helpful suggestions. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 18:28:51 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:28:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: <7ac602420806170919ra07c7e7wd87a3a7d1cf6b42b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806152007x36f73034sc5065cd88dafb403@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806162323v257726bel54a833391f21fdf3@mail.gmail.com> <20080617133042.GB31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806170919ra07c7e7wd87a3a7d1cf6b42b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jun 2008, Ian Petersen wrote: > Regarding postgrey, he's got some kind of spam filter in place. Don't > know anything about it except that it integrates with Exchange. As > for receiving mail when Rogers is down, won't the sending MTA queue > things just as well as Postfix could? Yes, but[1], you have no control over how long the remote MTA will queue the mail whereas you can control how long your MTA queues mail. Mail bounced by a remote MTA is silent to you too - you don't ever know someone tried to email you. Even if you MTA was forced to start rejecting mail (disk full or whatever) you have logs of the event (unless that filesystem was full too of course). IMHO email is too important to business these days to trust remote MTAs to queue the mail and deliver it in some rational manner following an outage. Rob [1] There's always a "but" isn't there :) -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 18:36:59 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:36:59 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806152007x36f73034sc5065cd88dafb403@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806162323v257726bel54a833391f21fdf3@mail.gmail.com> <20080617133042.GB31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806170919ra07c7e7wd87a3a7d1cf6b42b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <485FED4B.4010001@utoronto.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 17 Jun 2008, Ian Petersen wrote: > >> Regarding postgrey, he's got some kind of spam filter in place. Don't >> know anything about it except that it integrates with Exchange. As >> for receiving mail when Rogers is down, won't the sending MTA queue >> things just as well as Postfix could? > > Yes, but[1], you have no control over how long the remote MTA will queue > the mail whereas you can control how long your MTA queues mail. > > Mail bounced by a remote MTA is silent to you too - you don't ever know > someone tried to email you. Even if you MTA was forced to start > rejecting mail (disk full or whatever) you have logs of the event > (unless that filesystem was full too of course). > > IMHO email is too important to business these days to trust remote MTAs > to queue the mail and deliver it in some rational manner following an > outage. Yep, use relay_domains to have a postfix instance on another server queue mail for later delivery to your primary mail server in the event of a (primary) mailserver outage: http://www.postfix.org/STANDARD_CONFIGURATION_README.html#backup Should be easy enough to have postgrey work on both MX hosts too. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 18:32:56 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:32:56 -0400 Subject: Creating a "mail gateway" In-Reply-To: References: <7ac602420806111208j6ad97d0ybd93983ab848427a@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806152007x36f73034sc5065cd88dafb403@mail.gmail.com> <7ac602420806162323v257726bel54a833391f21fdf3@mail.gmail.com> <20080617133042.GB31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7ac602420806170919ra07c7e7wd87a3a7d1cf6b42b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ac602420806231132j412b8e1cp9c8bca8ec1dfb83b@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 17 Jun 2008, Ian Petersen wrote: >> Regarding postgrey, he's got some kind of spam filter in place. Don't >> know anything about it except that it integrates with Exchange. As >> for receiving mail when Rogers is down, won't the sending MTA queue >> things just as well as Postfix could? > > Yes, but[1], you have no control over how long the remote MTA will queue the > mail whereas you can control how long your MTA queues mail. > > Mail bounced by a remote MTA is silent to you too - you don't ever know > someone tried to email you. Even if you MTA was forced to start rejecting > mail (disk full or whatever) you have logs of the event (unless that > filesystem was full too of course). > > IMHO email is too important to business these days to trust remote MTAs to > queue the mail and deliver it in some rational manner following an outage. Those are some good points. I'll mention them next time my dad and I talk computers. > [1] There's always a "but" isn't there :) Yes, yes there is. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 19:02:13 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:02:13 -0600 Subject: Dedicated Servers + Scalable Web Architectures Message-ID: <485FF335.7050900@ualberta.ca> Hello everyone, First I will introduce myself. I'm a grad CS student who'll soon be living in Toronto. I'm 28 years old and have been back and forth from academia to the industry. I've been involved with Linux for some time now, mostly system admin experience -- no kernel hacking or anything like that....... yet? I'm very happy to see that there is what looks to be an active Linux User community in Toronto and I'm looking forward to meeting some of you soon. I am looking into building a new "Web 2.0" web site which focuses on user-contributed content. I have lots of ideas and after thinking about this and discussing it for about a month, I think I can "do it properly" when it comes to the actual building of the site.. eg. I have a wealth of experience with Apache, MySQL, PHP etc. but I lack experience in the large-scale/high-performance realm. I expect(hope?) the site to get really popular, really quickly, and so I need to be prepared to handle lots of hits and quick data retrieval. That being said, I have real questions: 1. I'd like a *reliable* dedicated server to host the site. I'd prefer one hosted in Toronto or Montreal for low trip response times, but that's not crucial. I tried tophostingcenter but their service was really bad (I can elaborate on that). I've now (temporarily) gone back with ServerPronto because I had used it before.. it was affordable, very reliable, and their customer service was just awesome. However, if I can do as well with a local server I'd surely consider it. 2. I'd like a recommendation on an architecture or *good* book on this subject, or even better pointer to scientific studies which compare different architectures in practical experiments. I'm very familiar with the Apache/MySQL/PHP setup so that is my current preference -- as long as it can scale! I'd be happy using Tomcat/JSP/Servlets if it means it means better scalability in the end. People have told me that Ruby on Rails doesn't scale-- after playing with it a bit two years ago it doesn't seem hard to believe, but it was still more of a superficial investigation than anything else. Ultimately, I'd like if people can give me recommendations based on their experiences rather than suspicions, but I think any discussion that come of this might be generally useful to us all. Thanks for your time. Marc -- There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write bad code. -- Flon's Law -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 19:16:21 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:16:21 -0400 Subject: open source licence question Message-ID: <200806231516.22593.icanprogram@295.ca> Does anyone know of what I would term an open source licence with a specific period of exclusive use? In otherwords changes can be used in a proprietary fashion of a predetermined period (eg. 1 year) and then those changes revert to a standard GPL type licence. Thanks in advance. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 19:11:59 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:11:59 -0400 Subject: Dedicated Servers + Scalable Web Architectures In-Reply-To: <485FF335.7050900-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <485FF335.7050900@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420806231211l643333ccve7a9deef415f5178@mail.gmail.com> You might want to look into Google's App Engine. The premise is that they want to bring "the cloud" to everyday developers. The platform currently supports only Python, but that's going to change over time, I think. You use it by creating a Python-based web app in their container, and then give someone the URL. Everything runs in Google's data centers, with the claim that if you use the API correctly, you should get free scaling to millions of users. Using the service is free up to a certain level of resource consumption. Depending on what your app does, they claim the free level of service will handle 5 million pages views/month. At the moment, I don't think it's possible to pay for more service, but they plan on allowing that in the future. The cost structure will be pennies per GB of transfer, "core-hours" of processing, GB-months of storage, etc. I think there was a claim that 10 million page views/month (ie. twice the number of page views supported by the free level) would be tens of dollars per year. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 19:37:36 2008 From: spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R.T.) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:37:36 -0400 Subject: Dedicated Servers + Scalable Web Architectures In-Reply-To: <485FF335.7050900-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <485FF335.7050900@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Given: - "I am looking into building a new "Web 2.0" web site" - "I lack experience in the large-scale/high-performance realm." - "I expect(hope?) the site to get really popular, really quickly, and so I need to be prepared to handle lots of hits and quick data retrieval." You should: - Sign-up with http://aws.amazon.com/ - Spend your time to doing what matters to you ("building a new 'Web 2.0' web site", not "tweaking Apache") Also: If you self-admittedly "lack experience in the large-scale/high-performance realm", I'd avoid flamebait like "Ruby on Rails doesn't scale--". On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Hello everyone, > > First I will introduce myself. I'm a grad CS student who'll soon be living > in Toronto. I'm 28 years old and have been back and forth from academia to > the industry. I've been involved with Linux for some time now, mostly system > admin experience -- no kernel hacking or anything like that....... yet? I'm > very happy to see that there is what looks to be an active Linux User > community in Toronto and I'm looking forward to meeting some of you soon. > > I am looking into building a new "Web 2.0" web site which focuses on > user-contributed content. I have lots of ideas and after thinking about this > and discussing it for about a month, I think I can "do it properly" when it > comes to the actual building of the site.. eg. I have a wealth of experience > with Apache, MySQL, PHP etc. but I lack experience in the > large-scale/high-performance realm. I expect(hope?) the site to get really > popular, really quickly, and so I need to be prepared to handle lots of hits > and quick data retrieval. > > That being said, I have real questions: > > 1. I'd like a *reliable* dedicated server to host the site. I'd prefer one > hosted in Toronto or Montreal for low trip response times, but that's not > crucial. I tried tophostingcenter but their service was really bad (I can > elaborate on that). I've now (temporarily) gone back with ServerPronto > because I had used it before.. it was affordable, very reliable, and their > customer service was just awesome. However, if I can do as well with a local > server I'd surely consider it. > > 2. I'd like a recommendation on an architecture or *good* book on this > subject, or even better pointer to scientific studies which compare > different architectures in practical experiments. I'm very familiar with the > Apache/MySQL/PHP setup so that is my current preference -- as long as it can > scale! I'd be happy using Tomcat/JSP/Servlets if it means it means better > scalability in the end. People have told me that Ruby on Rails doesn't > scale-- after playing with it a bit two years ago it doesn't seem hard to > believe, but it was still more of a superficial investigation than anything > else. > > Ultimately, I'd like if people can give me recommendations based on their > experiences rather than suspicions, but I think any discussion that come of > this might be generally useful to us all. > > Thanks for your time. > > Marc > > -- > There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any > programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write > bad code. > -- Flon's Law > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 19:43:36 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:43:36 -0400 Subject: Dedicated Servers + Scalable Web Architectures In-Reply-To: <485FF335.7050900-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <485FF335.7050900@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20080623194336.GM31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 01:02:13PM -0600, Marc Lanctot wrote: > First I will introduce myself. I'm a grad CS student who'll soon be > living in Toronto. I'm 28 years old and have been back and forth from > academia to the industry. I've been involved with Linux for some time > now, mostly system admin experience -- no kernel hacking or anything > like that....... yet? I'm very happy to see that there is what looks to > be an active Linux User community in Toronto and I'm looking forward to > meeting some of you soon. > > I am looking into building a new "Web 2.0" web site which focuses on > user-contributed content. I have lots of ideas and after thinking about > this and discussing it for about a month, I think I can "do it properly" > when it comes to the actual building of the site.. eg. I have a wealth > of experience with Apache, MySQL, PHP etc. but I lack experience in the > large-scale/high-performance realm. I expect(hope?) the site to get > really popular, really quickly, and so I need to be prepared to handle > lots of hits and quick data retrieval. Does anyone actually know what Web 2.0 is besides a silly marketing term? > That being said, I have real questions: > > 1. I'd like a *reliable* dedicated server to host the site. I'd prefer > one hosted in Toronto or Montreal for low trip response times, but > that's not crucial. I tried tophostingcenter but their service was > really bad (I can elaborate on that). I've now (temporarily) gone back > with ServerPronto because I had used it before.. it was affordable, very > reliable, and their customer service was just awesome. However, if I can > do as well with a local server I'd surely consider it. > > 2. I'd like a recommendation on an architecture or *good* book on this > subject, or even better pointer to scientific studies which compare > different architectures in practical experiments. I'm very familiar with > the Apache/MySQL/PHP setup so that is my current preference -- as long > as it can scale! I'd be happy using Tomcat/JSP/Servlets if it means it > means better scalability in the end. People have told me that Ruby on > Rails doesn't scale-- after playing with it a bit two years ago it > doesn't seem hard to believe, but it was still more of a superficial > investigation than anything else. > > Ultimately, I'd like if people can give me recommendations based on > their experiences rather than suspicions, but I think any discussion > that come of this might be generally useful to us all. Well at least in my expeirence, MySQL doesn't scale. Unless you almost exclusively read from it it doesn't like lots of users. Postgresql is much much better that way. I really have no idea why people always seem to go for mysql first rather than looking into what is available and picking the better choice. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 19:40:37 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:40:37 -0400 Subject: open source licence question In-Reply-To: <200806231516.22593.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200806231516.22593.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <1214250037.13902.155.camel@leon> On Mon, 2008-06-23 at 15:16 -0400, bob 295 wrote: > Does anyone know of what I would term an open source licence with a specific > period of exclusive use? In otherwords changes can be used in a > proprietary fashion of a predetermined period (eg. 1 year) and then those > changes revert to a standard GPL type licence. > > Thanks in advance. > > bob First you need to PAY YOUR LAWYER for the right answer. There are many variables in play here: Who created the original code? Is there an existing license? What clauses of that license are you triggering? Are you contributing to a work for hire? What is the permitted use by the client during the exclusivity period? Two cases that might work... 1) You work for them on a LAMP stack and add stuff for them as a work for hire. Presuming that they don't distribute, but only use internally, they have no obligation to disclose. You have no rights to disclose the work for hire. In this case you could ask for a contract that allows you to republish the work for hire after time-period of non-disclosure. 2) You're the author of an all original work that they want to use exclusively for a time period and you are not doing this as work for hire. You haven't yet published it under the GPL so the genie is not yet out of the bottle. In this case you as the exclusive author control the license terms. You can offer them exclusivity for a period of time as part of your sales contract, then publish widely under your license of choice after it expires. In each case you need to talk address venue and penalties, extensions, permitted and excluded uses, yadda yadda... Your lawyer can sort all the details out and make it work for you. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 19:46:31 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:46:31 -0400 Subject: open source licence question In-Reply-To: <200806231516.22593.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200806231516.22593.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: <20080623194631.GN31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 03:16:21PM -0400, bob 295 wrote: > Does anyone know of what I would term an open source licence with a specific > period of exclusive use? In otherwords changes can be used in a > proprietary fashion of a predetermined period (eg. 1 year) and then those > changes revert to a standard GPL type licence. It sounds vaguely like what Aladdin (ghostscript) used to do. They released anything over a year old under the GPL, but everything new was under their own license. Eventually they gave up on that and went GPL only which has nicely simplified things by merging 3 different ghostscript branches into one which makes developement and maintainance simpler. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 19:50:00 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:50:00 -0400 Subject: open source licence question In-Reply-To: <200806231516.22593.icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <200806231516.22593.icanprogram@295.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 3:16 PM, bob 295 wrote: > Does anyone know of what I would term an open source licence with a specific > period of exclusive use? In otherwords changes can be used in a > proprietary fashion of a predetermined period (eg. 1 year) and then those > changes revert to a standard GPL type licence. That would be known as "dual licensing" (sometimes aka "dueling licenses"), and this approach used to be taken by Aladdin Software with its licensing of Aladdin Ghostscript. There were two licenses: - For the first 18 months, some form of "Aladdin Public License" would apply. People could use the software freely, for some non-commercial purposes (and ergo this was NOT formally OSS, under the DFSG and similar); - After 18 months, Aladdin would re-release the same software under the GPL. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 19:51:29 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:51:29 -0400 Subject: Dedicated Servers + Scalable Web Architectures In-Reply-To: <20080623194336.GM31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <485FF335.7050900@ualberta.ca> <20080623194336.GM31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <485FFEC1.9040705@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Does anyone actually know what Web 2.0 is besides a silly marketing > term? Glossy icons and Iframes and javascript layering, as far as I can gather. So no, just a marketing term. > Well at least in my expeirence, MySQL doesn't scale. Unless you almost > exclusively read from it it doesn't like lots of users. Postgresql is > much much better that way. I really have no idea why people always seem > to go for mysql first rather than looking into what is available and > picking the better choice. Seconding the recommendation for PostgreSQL over MySQL. MySQL is fast, that is why it is often chosen. That speed comes at some risk though. PostgreSQL is not perfect, but crashing it is less likely to result in DB data corruption. I don't mean to get this into a MySQL vs. PgSQL argument, others may (will) differ, just take my opinion for what it is; one small vote for reliability based on my anecdotal experience. If I can make a suggestion? Don't worry about scalability and such yet. 99% of projects never get off the ground. Yours might, but likely it will need some time and tweaking. Worrying about high loading and availability is like asking to learn about F1 racing as you set out with your fresh new driver's license. There are more productive things for you to focus on at this point, imho. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 20:21:29 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:21:29 -0600 Subject: Dedicated Servers + Scalable Web Architectures In-Reply-To: <485FFEC1.9040705-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <485FF335.7050900@ualberta.ca> <20080623194336.GM31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <485FFEC1.9040705@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <486005C9.9040206@ualberta.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Does anyone actually know what Web 2.0 is besides a silly marketing >> term? > > Glossy icons and Iframes and javascript layering, as far as I can gather. > > So no, just a marketing term. It is a marketing term, but means more than just glossy icons and javascript layering. I won't go into detail because we have Wikipedia for that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2) but essentially it refers to this new generation of web sites where there is the potential for (if not the focus on) mass collaboration / user-contributed content. Facebook and Wikipedia are good examples of Web 2.0 sites, but there are so many out there now (IMDB, allrecipes, ...), some of which probably didn't intend on being part of the Web 2.0 revolution until lots of users contributed their content in the form of reviews and ratings. >> Well at least in my expeirence, MySQL doesn't scale. Unless you almost >> exclusively read from it it doesn't like lots of users. Postgresql is >> much much better that way. I really have no idea why people always seem >> to go for mysql first rather than looking into what is available and >> picking the better choice. > > Seconding the recommendation for PostgreSQL over MySQL. > > MySQL is fast, that is why it is often chosen. That speed comes at some > risk though. PostgreSQL is not perfect, but crashing it is less likely > to result in DB data corruption. I don't mean to get this into a MySQL > vs. PgSQL argument, others may (will) differ, just take my opinion for > what it is; one small vote for reliability based on my anecdotal > experience. > > If I can make a suggestion? Don't worry about scalability and such yet. > 99% of projects never get off the ground. Yours might, but likely it > will need some time and tweaking. Worrying about high loading and > availability is like asking to learn about F1 racing as you set out with > your fresh new driver's license. There are more productive things for > you to focus on at this point, imho. Good points, and I am building the web site in my free time. Thanks a bundle for the info on MySQL. I am just thinking ahead and want to go into this well-informed :) Marc -- There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write bad code. -- Flon's Law -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 20:27:34 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:27:34 -0600 Subject: Dedicated Servers + Scalable Web Architectures In-Reply-To: References: <485FF335.7050900@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <48600736.7040502@ualberta.ca> R.T. wrote: > Given: > - "I am looking into building a new "Web 2.0" web site" > - "I lack experience in the large-scale/high-performance realm." > - "I expect(hope?) the site to get really popular, really quickly, and > so I need to be prepared to handle lots of hits and quick data > retrieval." > > You should: > - Sign-up with http://aws.amazon.com/ > - Spend your time to doing what matters to you ("building a new 'Web > 2.0' web site", not "tweaking Apache") I will look into AWS and the Google App Engine. I am concerned about my intellectual property, ie. would they claim ownership of everything I host on there? I will have to take a closer look at these services to see what kind of legal issues are involved with using their services. Thanks, though, I didn't know about either of them. > Also: > If you self-admittedly "lack experience in the > large-scale/high-performance realm", I'd avoid flamebait like "Ruby on > Rails doesn't scale--". Ok, I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. Here is what I intended it to mean: I admit that my assessment was superficial and I'm open to the possibility that it may be wrong. I invite you to prove to me that it is if you believe it to be, and why :) You may just convince me it's the way to go. Marc -- There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write bad code. -- Flon's Law -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 20:28:29 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:28:29 -0400 Subject: Dedicated Servers + Scalable Web Architectures In-Reply-To: <485FFEC1.9040705-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <485FF335.7050900@ualberta.ca> <20080623194336.GM31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <485FFEC1.9040705@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4860076D.8030200@utoronto.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Does anyone actually know what Web 2.0 is besides a silly marketing >> term? > > Glossy icons and Iframes and javascript layering, as far as I can gather. > > So no, just a marketing term. Data mashups and digital based social interactions. The glossiness is just a mask that hides the underlying changes in the ways data are being used and the ways in which social interactions are mediated more and more by technology that people don't care to understand. I'm not a luddite who would prefer that the telephone were never invented, but some awareness of how these changes affect people and society would be nice. Instead of unbridled hysteria over a glossy touchscreen phone, understanding the implications of easing barriers to communication is, I think, much needed. That is to say, having any sort of device like an iPhone, Blackberry, or using a website like Facebook, Twitter etc. almost necessitates that those who use such things communicate ever more, sacrificing quality for quantity. Maybe face to face communication is over rated, who am I to say, I know what I like though... > >> Well at least in my expeirence, MySQL doesn't scale. Unless you almost >> exclusively read from it it doesn't like lots of users. Postgresql is >> much much better that way. I really have no idea why people always seem >> to go for mysql first rather than looking into what is available and >> picking the better choice. > > Seconding the recommendation for PostgreSQL over MySQL. I'll third that. I converted my Drupal site a while back from MySQL to Postgresql, and despite all the detractors who said that I should have tuned x and optimized for y in MySQL, things are consistently faster and more reliable and it works for me. If it ever ended up scaling I'd be set from the start too. > MySQL is fast, that is why it is often chosen. That speed comes at some > risk though. PostgreSQL is not perfect, but crashing it is less likely > to result in DB data corruption. I don't mean to get this into a MySQL > vs. PgSQL argument, others may (will) differ, just take my opinion for > what it is; one small vote for reliability based on my anecdotal > experience. Yahoo use MySQL pretty extensively, as do wikipedia. Not saying we should too, but if it is good enough for an overvalued company at $40+ billion (and make no mistake, Microsoft's interest is in simply buying data), then it might just be good enough for us little folk too. > If I can make a suggestion? Don't worry about scalability and such yet. > 99% of projects never get off the ground. Yours might, but likely it > will need some time and tweaking. Worrying about high loading and > availability is like asking to learn about F1 racing as you set out with > your fresh new driver's license. There are more productive things for > you to focus on at this point, imho. That being said, having a stable platform that can easily scale to start with will make development work easier instead of having to work around various quirks of chosen components if it ends up that they don't scale. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 20:30:48 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:30:48 -0400 Subject: Dedicated Servers + Scalable Web Architectures In-Reply-To: <485FFEC1.9040705-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <485FF335.7050900@ualberta.ca> <20080623194336.GM31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <485FFEC1.9040705@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> Does anyone actually know what Web 2.0 is besides a silly marketing >> term? > > Glossy icons and Iframes and javascript layering, as far as I can gather. > > So no, just a marketing term. There's supposed to be something to it that's about mashing together services that come from different places. Wikipedia isn't necessarily "definitively correct," but it frequently is successful at recognizing what is the commonly-perceived understanding of things, and I think it gets the "commonly-perceived understanding" right... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2.0 Of course, that "understanding" seems to mostly consist of "silly marketing stuff" ;-). >> Well at least in my expeirence, MySQL doesn't scale. Unless you almost >> exclusively read from it it doesn't like lots of users. Postgresql is >> much much better that way. I really have no idea why people always seem >> to go for mysql first rather than looking into what is available and >> picking the better choice. > > Seconding the recommendation for PostgreSQL over MySQL. > > MySQL is fast, that is why it is often chosen. That speed comes at some risk > though. PostgreSQL is not perfect, but crashing it is less likely to result > in DB data corruption. I don't mean to get this into a MySQL vs. PgSQL > argument, others may (will) differ, just take my opinion for what it is; one > small vote for reliability based on my anecdotal experience. Here's a fairly fair characterization of things... http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Why_PostgreSQL_Instead_of_MySQL:_Comparing_Reliability_and_Speed_in_2007 The sorts of cases where MySQL(tm) is regarded as "lots faster" have a lot to do with: a) Looking at elderly versions of both MySQL(tm) and PostgreSQL. Yes, PostgreSQL 6.5 was dog slow, but that was 1997. The tendancy has been that PostgreSQL has gotten both faster and more scalable (e.g. - it plays better under light load than it used to, and you can also get benefit from scaling up to a 16 CPU server with a disk array); in contrast, the enhancements to MySQL(tm) haven't tended to make it faster. The reliable storage engines tend to leak performance. b) Looking at cases that do not involve scaling in any sense. The classic "MySQL(tm) is faster" benchmarks tend to involve running a whole lot of queries into a single connection, which, for MyISAM, is the only "fast" configuration. Bump it up to 10 concurrent connections and MyISAM tends to bog down because it uses table locking, which amounts to saying "doesn't scale to past 1 user." You can migrate to other storage engines, but the paucity of published benchmarks for such cases is a (largely silent!) witness to the fact that this pretty much leads to throwing away all of the performance benefits you thought you were getting. For more realistic benchmarks, there is no indication that there is any substantive performance difference, and as you add connections, PostgreSQL pulls consistently ahead... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 20:47:16 2008 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:47:16 -0400 Subject: Dedicated Servers + Scalable Web Architectures In-Reply-To: <4860076D.8030200-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <485FF335.7050900@ualberta.ca> <20080623194336.GM31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <485FFEC1.9040705@alteeve.com> <4860076D.8030200@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <48600BD4.908@pobox.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > I'm not a luddite who would prefer that the telephone were never > invented, but some awareness of how these changes affect people and > society would be nice. Instead of unbridled hysteria over a glossy > touchscreen phone, understanding the implications of easing barriers > to communication is, I think, much needed. That is to say, having any > sort of device like an iPhone, Blackberry, or using a website like > Facebook, Twitter etc. almost necessitates that those who use such > things communicate ever more, sacrificing quality for quantity. > In fact I'd argue that saying these things ease barriers to communication is a dubious claim. It's about as correct as saying "information technology" is about information in the way normal humans (i.e. everyone except mathematicians) use the word. Things like blackberries all too frequently *impede* communication. Face to face suffers because the addict is unable to focus on the person in front of them and feels compelled to check the device every time it buzzes and a few times when it doesn't. Email communication suffers because the addict tends to skim all communications, not perceive -- much less comprehend -- at least half the incoming email, and then jump to wildly inappropriate conclusions about the portion of the email they DID see. Etc., etc. It's mildly depressing that all the essays from the early days of NetFuture (netfuture.org) are just as pertinent, and just as unexamined, today as they were in 1995+. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 21:05:13 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:05:13 -0400 Subject: Dedicated Servers + Scalable Web Architectures In-Reply-To: <485FF335.7050900-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <485FF335.7050900@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > 2. I'd like a recommendation on an architecture or *good* book on this > subject, or even better pointer to scientific studies which compare > different architectures in practical experiments. I'm very familiar with the > Apache/MySQL/PHP setup so that is my current preference -- as long as it can > scale! I'd be happy using Tomcat/JSP/Servlets if it means it means better > scalability in the end. People have told me that Ruby on Rails doesn't > scale-- after playing with it a bit two years ago it doesn't seem hard to > believe, but it was still more of a superficial investigation than anything > else. Part of where you need to start is by determining just what you think you mean by "scalability." Formally, it indicates that a system has the capability to either handle growing amounts of work in a graceful manner, or generally to be readily enlarged. At the simplest level, it might be considered to indicate something like "if traffic doubles, can I cope with that by doubling the size/number of servers?" But when you're thinking about it, you should be looking for characteristics that allow you to do "better than linear" scaling. When thinking of algorithms, the *good* ones are the ones that exhibit logarithmic scaling, rather than linear scaling; those are the ones where you can scale by orders of magnitude without difficulty. Keep in mind that this does not simply apply to the software; it also applies to the administration and operation of the system. You don't want doubling the number of servers to require hiring twice as many sysadmins, for instance. Or for doubling the number of customers to require doubling the number of administrative staff. Database systems tend to "scale with difficulty" in comparison with certain other classes of systems; you can frequently scale DNS or web applications simply by adding extra servers, but, eventually, throwing hardware at databases has limits. Here's a pretty good discussion of database scaling which isn't platform or DBMS-specific. One pretty good book on "scalable architecture" is _Scalable Internet Architectures_, by Theo Schlossnagle. It has some pretty useful perspectives on the matter. An interesting web site that takes a different twist on this is this one: It addresses the issue of how you can think about building internet services that can handle 10000 concurrent connections (that's what "C10K" stands for). It tries to present "brute force" resolutions to the issue. One of the major abstractions for supporting scalability is that of message queueing. This allows grouping requests together so that they may be processed efficiently, in some bulk. That it splits processing out into asynchronous portions is a big win, too. That tends to be good for the application... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 23 21:11:02 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:11:02 -0400 Subject: Dedicated Servers + Scalable Web Architectures In-Reply-To: <48600BD4.908-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <485FF335.7050900@ualberta.ca> <20080623194336.GM31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <485FFEC1.9040705@alteeve.com> <4860076D.8030200@utoronto.ca> <48600BD4.908@pobox.com> Message-ID: <48601166.5000905@utoronto.ca> Andrej Marjan wrote: > Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> I'm not a luddite who would prefer that the telephone were never >> invented, but some awareness of how these changes affect people and >> society would be nice. Instead of unbridled hysteria over a glossy >> touchscreen phone, understanding the implications of easing barriers >> to communication is, I think, much needed. That is to say, having any >> sort of device like an iPhone, Blackberry, or using a website like >> Facebook, Twitter etc. almost necessitates that those who use such >> things communicate ever more, sacrificing quality for quantity. >> > > In fact I'd argue that saying these things ease barriers to > communication is a dubious claim. It's about as correct as saying > "information technology" is about information in the way normal humans > (i.e. everyone except mathematicians) use the word. > > Things like blackberries all too frequently *impede* communication. Face > to face suffers because the addict is unable to focus on the person in > front of them and feels compelled to check the device every time it > buzzes and a few times when it doesn't. Email communication suffers > because the addict tends to skim all communications, not perceive -- > much less comprehend -- at least half the incoming email, and then jump > to wildly inappropriate conclusions about the portion of the email they > DID see. Etc., etc. How about, "things like blackberries all to frequently *act as substitutes for* communication," where the device itself can represent or signify more rich meaning than the content of the messages themselves to those who use such a device. To simply use the device entails communicating. McLuhan's "the medium is the message" is what I'm getting at, and all too frequently it (the medium, a PDA in this case), functions completely transparently to the user, obscuring the real hidden message of what it means to be connected and online all the time. Then there are those who communicate based on knowing that someone has such a device. The assumption there is that you're online 24 hours a day which represents a pretty severe blow to the work/personal life barrier. Again, the medium is the focus, the message is secondary to the consideration that said user has a device that allows them to be reached. It is about the potential for communication at any time that allows the message to be sent in the first place. That is not to be demeaning to the many more clued in users out there, but blackberries aren't known as crackberries, nor is the iPhone called the jesus phone for no reason. > It's mildly depressing that all the essays from the early days of > NetFuture (netfuture.org) are just as pertinent, and just as unexamined, > today as they were in 1995+. +1 to that. Check out firstmonday as well, going back to 1996: http://www.uic.edu/htbin/cgiwrap/bin/ojs/index.php/fm/issue/archive?issuesPage=7 Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 25 15:09:53 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:09:53 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 8.04, bad response time when HDD active Message-ID: <48625FC1.2080801@alteeve.com> Hi all, I updated my Ubuntu 7.10 system to 8.04 and at first things were fine. Now though, my system stutters a LOT (like now, writing this, the text keeps coming in chunks rather than seeing the characters as I type them). I am not sure exactly why, as my memory isn't full (not swapping), my disk is running in DMA mode and no particular process is going nuts in 'top'. It seems to bog down when there is disk activity though and/or a download happening. I've also noticed that my disk went from being recognized as '/dev/sda' to '/dev/hda' again (something that changed a few versions back). I am not sure if this change coincided with my loss of performance though. Has anyone else had any troubles? My machine is an IBM Thinkpad T40, 1.5GHz Pentium M (running at 1.5GHz), 1GB RAM (45% in use atm) and a Seagate Momentus 5,400 RPM 60BG drive. While writing this email with a bittorrent running and not much else my load average is a very high 2.3. The stutter is so bad I can't listen to my music and even typing this is difficult. This machine *used* to be very fast by my humble standards until a few weeks ago. Help!! :) Madi Some values: root at akane:/home/digimer# hdparm -tT /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing cached reads: 384 MB in 2.00 seconds = 191.59 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 6 MB in 3.23 seconds = 1.86 MB/sec root at akane:/home/digimer# hdparm -I /dev/hda /dev/hda: ATA device, with non-removable media Model Number: ST960822A Serial Number: 3LF255XE Firmware Revision: 3.02 Standards: Used: ATA/ATAPI-6 T13 1410D revision 2 Supported: 6 5 4 Configuration: Logical max current cylinders 16383 16383 heads 16 16 sectors/track 63 63 -- CHS current addressable sectors: 16514064 LBA user addressable sectors: 117210240 device size with M = 1024*1024: 57231 MBytes device size with M = 1000*1000: 60011 MBytes (60 GB) Capabilities: LBA, IORDY(can be disabled) Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, no device specific minimum R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16 Current = ? Advanced power management level: 128 Recommended acoustic management value: 254, current value: 0 DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5 Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 Cycle time: no flow control=240ns IORDY flow control=120ns Commands/features: Enabled Supported: * SMART feature set Security Mode feature set * Power Management feature set * Write cache * Look-ahead * Host Protected Area feature set * WRITE_BUFFER command * READ_BUFFER command * DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE * Advanced Power Management feature set SET_MAX security extension * Device Configuration Overlay feature set * Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE * SMART error logging * SMART self-test * IDLE_IMMEDIATE with UNLOAD Security: Master password revision code = 65534 supported not enabled not locked frozen not expired: security count not supported: enhanced erase HW reset results: CBLID- above Vih Device num = 0 determined by CSEL Checksum: correct top - 11:09:18 up 1:28, 4 users, load average: 2.29, 1.60, 1.07 Mem: 1294884k total, 1266912k used, 27972k free, 80500k buffers Swap: 979924k total, 0k used, 979924k free, 608460k cached PID USER PR NI VIRT SHR S %CPU RES %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 41 root 15 -5 0 0 S 14.0 0 0.0 0:27.80 kblockd/0 5409 root 20 0 3420 1004 S 4.0 1156 0.1 0:03.62 hald-addon-stor 6087 digimer 20 0 176m 22m S 4.0 68m 5.5 0:47.05 thunderbird-bin 5495 root 20 0 135m 10m S 2.7 45m 3.6 3:35.29 Xorg 8238 digimer 20 0 46268 4988 R 2.3 7216 0.6 0:31.00 xmms 8172 digimer 20 0 77884 14m S 1.7 27m 2.2 0:29.96 /usr/bin/gnome- 4916 root 20 0 4368 1476 S 1.3 1960 0.2 0:00.96 openvpn 5378 root 20 0 3416 1012 S 1.3 1160 0.1 0:04.18 hald-addon-inpu 4 root 15 -5 0 0 S 0.7 0 0.0 0:01.68 ksoftirqd/0 2390 root 15 -5 0 0 S 0.7 0 0.0 0:27.86 kjournald 5094 root 20 0 18380 756 S 0.7 932 0.1 0:10.42 cpufreqd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 25 15:18:22 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:18:22 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 8.04, bad response time when HDD active In-Reply-To: <48625FC1.2080801-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48625FC1.2080801@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <486261BE.4000600@alteeve.com> Update; It said DMA was in use with 'hdparm -I', but 'hdparm -d' shows otherwise: root at akane:/home/digimer# hdparm -d /dev/hda /dev/hda: using_dma = 0 (off) root at akane:/home/digimer# hdparm -d 1 /dev/hda /dev/hda: setting using_dma to 1 (on) HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted using_dma = 0 (off) lolwut?! Madi Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I updated my Ubuntu 7.10 system to 8.04 and at first things were fine. > Now though, my system stutters a LOT (like now, writing this, the text > keeps coming in chunks rather than seeing the characters as I type > them). I am not sure exactly why, as my memory isn't full (not > swapping), my disk is running in DMA mode and no particular process is > going nuts in 'top'. > > It seems to bog down when there is disk activity though and/or a > download happening. I've also noticed that my disk went from being > recognized as '/dev/sda' to '/dev/hda' again (something that changed a > few versions back). I am not sure if this change coincided with my loss > of performance though. > > Has anyone else had any troubles? > > My machine is an IBM Thinkpad T40, 1.5GHz Pentium M (running at 1.5GHz), > 1GB RAM (45% in use atm) and a Seagate Momentus 5,400 RPM 60BG drive. > While writing this email with a bittorrent running and not much else my > load average is a very high 2.3. The stutter is so bad I can't listen to > my music and even typing this is difficult. This machine *used* to be > very fast by my humble standards until a few weeks ago. > > Help!! :) > > Madi > > Some values: > > root at akane:/home/digimer# hdparm -tT /dev/hda > > /dev/hda: > Timing cached reads: 384 MB in 2.00 seconds = 191.59 MB/sec > Timing buffered disk reads: 6 MB in 3.23 seconds = 1.86 MB/sec > > root at akane:/home/digimer# hdparm -I /dev/hda > > /dev/hda: > > ATA device, with non-removable media > Model Number: ST960822A > Serial Number: 3LF255XE > Firmware Revision: 3.02 > Standards: > Used: ATA/ATAPI-6 T13 1410D revision 2 > Supported: 6 5 4 > Configuration: > Logical max current > cylinders 16383 16383 > heads 16 16 > sectors/track 63 63 > -- > CHS current addressable sectors: 16514064 > LBA user addressable sectors: 117210240 > device size with M = 1024*1024: 57231 MBytes > device size with M = 1000*1000: 60011 MBytes (60 GB) > Capabilities: > LBA, IORDY(can be disabled) > Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, no device specific minimum > R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16 Current = ? > Advanced power management level: 128 > Recommended acoustic management value: 254, current value: 0 > DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5 > Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns > PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 > Cycle time: no flow control=240ns IORDY flow control=120ns > Commands/features: > Enabled Supported: > * SMART feature set > Security Mode feature set > * Power Management feature set > * Write cache > * Look-ahead > * Host Protected Area feature set > * WRITE_BUFFER command > * READ_BUFFER command > * DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE > * Advanced Power Management feature set > SET_MAX security extension > * Device Configuration Overlay feature set > * Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE > * SMART error logging > * SMART self-test > * IDLE_IMMEDIATE with UNLOAD > Security: > Master password revision code = 65534 > supported > not enabled > not locked > frozen > not expired: security count > not supported: enhanced erase > HW reset results: > CBLID- above Vih > Device num = 0 determined by CSEL > Checksum: correct > > top - 11:09:18 up 1:28, 4 users, load average: 2.29, 1.60, 1.07 > Mem: 1294884k total, 1266912k used, 27972k free, 80500k buffers > Swap: 979924k total, 0k used, 979924k free, 608460k cached > > PID USER PR NI VIRT SHR S %CPU RES %MEM TIME+ COMMAND > 41 root 15 -5 0 0 S 14.0 0 0.0 0:27.80 kblockd/0 > 5409 root 20 0 3420 1004 S 4.0 1156 0.1 0:03.62 > hald-addon-stor > 6087 digimer 20 0 176m 22m S 4.0 68m 5.5 0:47.05 > thunderbird-bin > 5495 root 20 0 135m 10m S 2.7 45m 3.6 3:35.29 Xorg > 8238 digimer 20 0 46268 4988 R 2.3 7216 0.6 0:31.00 xmms > 8172 digimer 20 0 77884 14m S 1.7 27m 2.2 0:29.96 > /usr/bin/gnome- > 4916 root 20 0 4368 1476 S 1.3 1960 0.2 0:00.96 openvpn > 5378 root 20 0 3416 1012 S 1.3 1160 0.1 0:04.18 > hald-addon-inpu > 4 root 15 -5 0 0 S 0.7 0 0.0 0:01.68 ksoftirqd/0 > 2390 root 15 -5 0 0 S 0.7 0 0.0 0:27.86 kjournald > 5094 root 20 0 18380 756 S 0.7 932 0.1 0:10.42 cpufreqd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 25 15:30:37 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:30:37 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 8.04, bad response time when HDD active In-Reply-To: <486261BE.4000600-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48625FC1.2080801@alteeve.com> <486261BE.4000600@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20080625153037.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:18:22AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Update; > > It said DMA was in use with 'hdparm -I', but 'hdparm -d' shows otherwise: > > root at akane:/home/digimer# hdparm -d /dev/hda > > /dev/hda: > using_dma = 0 (off) > root at akane:/home/digimer# hdparm -d 1 /dev/hda > > /dev/hda: > setting using_dma to 1 (on) > HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted > using_dma = 0 (off) > > lolwut?! Probably means for some reason you are now using ide-generic rather than the native driver for your IDE controller (which would explain it dropping back to /dev/hda). Figure out why it isn't loading the correct driver in the initrd, or why it isn't recognizing your controller (maybe dmesg has some hint). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 25 15:49:07 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:49:07 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 8.04, bad response time when HDD active In-Reply-To: <20080625153037.GO31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48625FC1.2080801@alteeve.com> <486261BE.4000600@alteeve.com> <20080625153037.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <486268F3.2090204@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:18:22AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> Update; >> >> It said DMA was in use with 'hdparm -I', but 'hdparm -d' shows otherwise: >> >> root at akane:/home/digimer# hdparm -d /dev/hda >> >> /dev/hda: >> using_dma = 0 (off) >> root at akane:/home/digimer# hdparm -d 1 /dev/hda >> >> /dev/hda: >> setting using_dma to 1 (on) >> HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted >> using_dma = 0 (off) >> >> lolwut?! > > Probably means for some reason you are now using ide-generic rather than > the native driver for your IDE controller (which would explain it > dropping back to /dev/hda). Figure out why it isn't loading the correct > driver in the initrd, or why it isn't recognizing your controller (maybe > dmesg has some hint). > D'oh, forgot to check dmesg... This is a bit cryptic to me, but maybe a TLUG'er has some insight? Are the complaints here a clue or normal? ... [ 9.212243] PCI: Unable to reserve I/O region #1:8 at 1f0 for device 0000:00:1f.1 [ 9.212247] ata_piix 0000:00:1f.1: failed to request/iomap BARs for port 0 (errno=-16) [ 9.212261] PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1f.1 to 64 [ 9.213013] scsi0 : ata_piix [ 9.213674] scsi1 : ata_piix [ 9.214697] ata1: DUMMY [ 9.214701] ata2: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x170 ctl 0x376 bmdma 0x1868 irq 15 [ 9.342815] hda: ST960822A, ATA DISK drive [ 9.342913] ide1: I/O resource 0x376-0x376 not free. [ 9.342917] ide1: ports already in use, skipping probe [ 9.342949] ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 [ 9.515383] hda: max request size: 128KiB [ 9.515961] hda: 117210240 sectors (60011 MB) w/8192KiB Cache, CHS=65535/16/63 [ 9.516122] hda: cache flushes supported [ 9.516162] hda: hda1 hda2 ... Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jun 25 20:19:22 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:19:22 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 8.04, bad response time when HDD active In-Reply-To: <486268F3.2090204-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48625FC1.2080801@alteeve.com> <486261BE.4000600@alteeve.com> <20080625153037.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <486268F3.2090204@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20080625201922.GP31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:49:07AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > D'oh, forgot to check dmesg... > > This is a bit cryptic to me, but maybe a TLUG'er has some insight? Are > the complaints here a clue or normal? > > ... > [ 9.212243] PCI: Unable to reserve I/O region #1:8 at 1f0 for device > 0000:00:1f.1 > [ 9.212247] ata_piix 0000:00:1f.1: failed to request/iomap BARs for > port 0 (errno=-16) > [ 9.212261] PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1f.1 to 64 > [ 9.213013] scsi0 : ata_piix > [ 9.213674] scsi1 : ata_piix > [ 9.214697] ata1: DUMMY What the heck is that? Do you have some stupid legacy emulation enabled in the BIOS or what is that doing. > [ 9.214701] ata2: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x170 ctl 0x376 bmdma 0x1868 > irq 15 > [ 9.342815] hda: ST960822A, ATA DISK drive > [ 9.342913] ide1: I/O resource 0x376-0x376 not free. > [ 9.342917] ide1: ports already in use, skipping probe > [ 9.342949] ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 This looks like ide-generic is playing with the port after ata_piix already looked at it and declared it not usable or something. That looks odd. > [ 9.515383] hda: max request size: 128KiB > [ 9.515961] hda: 117210240 sectors (60011 MB) w/8192KiB Cache, > CHS=65535/16/63 > [ 9.516122] hda: cache flushes supported > [ 9.516162] hda: hda1 hda2 Which kernel version is this? If it is 2.6.24, then well, use something else, it seems to hate a lot of intel chipsets. 2.6.22 or 2.6.25 seems fine. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 26 01:19:13 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:19:13 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 8.04, bad response time when HDD active In-Reply-To: <486268F3.2090204-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <48625FC1.2080801@alteeve.com> <486261BE.4000600@alteeve.com> <20080625153037.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <486268F3.2090204@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0806251819x5e51aa4cjc547bc1d2e8761e9@mail.gmail.com> Maybe it's using one of the Experimental PATA kernel drivers? On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:18:22AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> >>> Update; >>> >>> It said DMA was in use with 'hdparm -I', but 'hdparm -d' shows otherwise: >>> >>> root at akane:/home/digimer# hdparm -d /dev/hda >>> >>> /dev/hda: >>> using_dma = 0 (off) >>> root at akane:/home/digimer# hdparm -d 1 /dev/hda >>> >>> /dev/hda: >>> setting using_dma to 1 (on) >>> HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted >>> using_dma = 0 (off) >>> >>> lolwut?! >> >> Probably means for some reason you are now using ide-generic rather than >> the native driver for your IDE controller (which would explain it >> dropping back to /dev/hda). Figure out why it isn't loading the correct >> driver in the initrd, or why it isn't recognizing your controller (maybe >> dmesg has some hint). >> > > D'oh, forgot to check dmesg... > > This is a bit cryptic to me, but maybe a TLUG'er has some insight? Are the > complaints here a clue or normal? > > ... > [ 9.212243] PCI: Unable to reserve I/O region #1:8 at 1f0 for device > 0000:00:1f.1 > [ 9.212247] ata_piix 0000:00:1f.1: failed to request/iomap BARs for port > 0 (errno=-16) > [ 9.212261] PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1f.1 to 64 > [ 9.213013] scsi0 : ata_piix > [ 9.213674] scsi1 : ata_piix > [ 9.214697] ata1: DUMMY > [ 9.214701] ata2: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x170 ctl 0x376 bmdma 0x1868 irq > 15 > [ 9.342815] hda: ST960822A, ATA DISK drive > [ 9.342913] ide1: I/O resource 0x376-0x376 not free. > [ 9.342917] ide1: ports already in use, skipping probe > [ 9.342949] ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 > [ 9.515383] hda: max request size: 128KiB > [ 9.515961] hda: 117210240 sectors (60011 MB) w/8192KiB Cache, > CHS=65535/16/63 > [ 9.516122] hda: cache flushes supported > [ 9.516162] hda: hda1 hda2 > ... > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 26 02:44:17 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ubuntu 8.04, bad response time when HDD active In-Reply-To: <20080625201922.GP31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48625FC1.2080801@alteeve.com> <486261BE.4000600@alteeve.com> <20080625153037.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <486268F3.2090204@alteeve.com> <20080625201922.GP31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | If it is 2.6.24, then well, use something else, it seems to hate a lot | of intel chipsets. 2.6.22 or 2.6.25 seems fine. Interesting. My freshly-updated Ubuntu 8.04 is running 2.6.24. I seem to have -16, -17, -18, and -19 in /boot. My freshly-updated Fedora 9 has only 2.6.25 kernels in /boot. On Ubuntu 8.04, I'm experiencing a problem that might be related to support for Intel chipsets. I have not tried Fedora 9 on the same machine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24/+bug/229467 This might be the same issue as: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24/+bug/224404 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jun 26 13:18:48 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:18:48 -0400 Subject: XMMS replacement In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0805010753g6413936dl9b0ef4b81f31e487-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4819BF6B.9040502@alteeve.com> <4819CDE3.2070005@utoronto.ca> <20080501143728.GJ6956@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3a97ef0805010753g6413936dl9b0ef4b81f31e487@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48639738.3090703@alteeve.com> This is quite a late reply, I realize, but... Given my recent PIO mode issue, I've temporarily switched laptops until I solve the problem. On my normal laptop, I got XMMS working and hadn't gotten to trying audacious yet (the others were not quite what I had been looking for). Anyway, I just set it up on this lappy and wow, I couldn't have asked for a more perfect replacement for XMMS. With the "refugee" skin and a couple small changes to the preferences you would be hard pressed to know know it wasn't XMMS itself. Thanks for the excellent recommendation! Madi Tyler Aviss wrote: > I think he meant "audacious" > > I believe it's based on BMP, and I've been using it in place of XMMS > for some time now. > > It's actually quite nice, with a nice interface (fairly skinnable), > XMMS/winamp-like feel, and decent rack of plugins. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audacious_Media_Player > > > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 10:04:19AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: >> > XMMS has been deprecated across a few distributions over time, I think >> > Gentoo might have done that more than a year ago even. However, Beep >> > Media Player is a GTK2 port of XMMS, and I think Audacity is a port of Beep. >> >> Audacity is a sound editor (a very powerful one). It is not a player. >> >> >> > That being said, I don't recall using a version of Amarok that didn't >> > support queueing so maybe you'd like to revisit that? >> >> -- >> Len Sorensen >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 27 13:49:22 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:49:22 -0400 Subject: Toronto ADSL (Bell) and SSH Message-ID: <3a97ef0806270649m334a2c03g7c1132bbb3a12f2f@mail.gmail.com> Hey All, Has anyone else noticed that SSH'ing to an ADSL box (which assumedly runs through a Bell connection somewhere) causes shit performance during regular hours? I'm aware that it's an issue with P2P, but how about SSH? I'm trying not to be too quick to point at Bell, but I've already noticed that using encrypted connections seems to be dead-slow (non-encrypted is fine, encrypted within LAN is fine), but IMAPS to my home box from work == dog slow, and SSH'ing to my home box from work == dog slow (except at night). In addition, I've noticed that general internet traffic seems to run rather craptastically when I'm SSH'ed into the box as well Anyone else having this issue? -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From anahi_ar-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 27 15:11:43 2008 From: anahi_ar-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Anahi Avalos) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: file recover tool Message-ID: <615174.43749.qm@web45909.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi all you! Do you know another tool to make hard disk image than the dd ??and other than ext3grep to recover files? I have a little problem with deleted files. The files are pdf and word, and they ?were in many folders. But with ext3grep I only have a big puzzle: files without name and names in the other side. Thanks, Anah?. __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 27 15:14:11 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:11 -0400 Subject: file recover tool In-Reply-To: <615174.43749.qm-MhxhyKWn58LrNpU5RS+xBlZ8N9CAUha/QQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <615174.43749.qm@web45909.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <486503C3.5050207@utoronto.ca> Anahi Avalos wrote: > Hi all you! > > Do you know another tool to make hard disk image than the dd and other > than ext3grep to recover files? > > I have a little problem with deleted files. The files are pdf and word, > and they were in many folders. But with ext3grep I only have a big > puzzle: files without name and names in the other side. Try R-Studio: http://www.data-recovery-software.net/Linux_Recovery.shtml Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 27 17:18:39 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:18:39 -0400 Subject: [OT] Playstation 3 and My Music Library Message-ID: <486520EF.9080708@rogers.com> I have a PS3 for my home theatre. I don't know how to play games on it, and probably never will I would like to change to a much bigger hard drive and copy all my CDs to it and play from there. I *do not* want to convert to MP3. Creating play lists looks painful. Searching the web was painful for me, because most hits were for games, including one called Jukebox. Has anyone been here, or be able to point me to a resource? Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 27 22:03:11 2008 From: asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Asaf Maruf) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:03:11 -0400 Subject: [OT] Playstation 3 and My Music Library In-Reply-To: <486520EF.9080708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <486520EF.9080708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <49e826e90806271503n5409a6bcpafbdee4f2eab4635@mail.gmail.com> Check out rockbox.org Asaf On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Stephen wrote: > I have a PS3 for my home theatre. > > I don't know how to play games on it, and probably never will > > I would like to change to a much bigger hard drive and copy all my CDs to > it and play from there. > > I *do not* want to convert to MP3. > > Creating play lists looks painful. > > Searching the web was painful for me, because most hits were for games, > including one called Jukebox. > > Has anyone been here, or be able to point me to a resource? > > Thanks > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- "I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." - Richard P. Feynman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anahi_ar-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Jun 27 23:42:52 2008 From: anahi_ar-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Anahi Avalos) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: file recover tool Message-ID: <242938.38559.qm@web45907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi: Thanks Jamon. I tried this morning with R-studio and R-linux but? doesn't appear the number of this nodes that I get with the first method?but ?They are easy and faster than ext3grep.?I tried the first time with something like this: http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlo17/howto/undelete_ext3.html, and I can see more nodes but the process is slowest. Thanks again, . Anah? ----- Original Message ---- From: Jamon Camisso To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 10:14:11 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: file recover tool Anahi Avalos wrote: > Hi all you! > > Do you know another tool to make hard disk image than the dd? and other > than ext3grep to recover files? > > I have a little problem with deleted files. The files are pdf and word, > and they? were in many folders. But with ext3grep I only have a big > puzzle: files without name and names in the other side. Try R-Studio: http://www.data-recovery-software.net/Linux_Recovery.shtml Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group.? ? ? Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 00:47:36 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:47:36 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Openmoko Neo Freerunner Group Order] Message-ID: <1214614056.22485.4.camel@leon> Our friends at Hamilton Linux User Group are organizing a group purchase of OpenMoko phones for faster delivery. Anybody want to join in? Contact Gabriel directly please. -------- Forwarded Message -------- > From: Gabriel A. Devenyi > Subject: Openmoko Neo Freerunner Group Order > Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:12:03 -0400 > > Hello all, > > As you may or may not know, I've taken it upon myself to organize for the > Freerunner in the HLUG/Hamilton area. The time is fast approaching when the web > store opens, many people who bought via pre-order distributors in the EU are > starting to receive their phones. > > So now I have two questions to ask of all of you: > > 1) Are you still interested in a group order. A reminder that the phone is > $369USD + possibly some unknown shipping/tarriff cost. Since group orders must > be purchased by one person, I'll be on the hook for the full price of 10 > phones, and if you commit to buy I expect you to come through, else I get stuck > with far more phones than I need. > > 2) By my count, we only have 7 possible orders. Group orders come *only* in > multiples of 10, so my next question. How many phones do you want? Do you know > of anyone else who's expressed interested but has not yet expressed an interest > in buying a phone. If you know any such person, please forward this mail on to > them, and bug them incessantly. If we don't find 10 persons interested in a > phone, I'm not going to be making a group order. > > Hope to hear back from everyone soon, and to see everyone at the HLUG BBQ this > Tuesday. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 01:22:38 2008 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:22:38 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Openmoko Neo Freerunner Group Order] In-Reply-To: <1214614056.22485.4.camel@leon> References: <1214614056.22485.4.camel@leon> Message-ID: <20080628012238.GN3143@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 08:47:36PM -0400, Richard Weait wrote: > Our friends at Hamilton Linux User Group are organizing a group purchase > of OpenMoko phones for faster delivery. Anybody want to join in? > Contact Gabriel directly please. I'm in, fer sher! 'been waiting quite long enough, thanks, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 02:04:17 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:04:17 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Openmoko Neo Freerunner Group Order] In-Reply-To: <20080628012238.GN3143-vuApnpmWkJ9FpmmLyGmH5+/MzcrNtJ/p@public.gmane.org> References: <1214614056.22485.4.camel@leon> <20080628012238.GN3143@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> Message-ID: <48659C21.7070408@telly.org> I will probably wait for some Android-y phone in a half-year or so from now. Android, together with - the commitment of Palm to a Linux-based platform - the recent purchase of Symbian by Nokia (and the accompanying intent to open source Symbian's OS) - the defection of vendors such as HTC from Windows Mobile to Android ... seems to indicate that eventually almost every smartphone that isn't made in Canada will be running Linux. In this environment, I hope the OpenMoko platform won't get orphaned if Android and FOSSymbian become popular. As someone who bought an early Zaurus I don't want to make the same mistake twice. I also note that the OpenMoko is tri-band rather than quad-band. That will not affect coverage in North America, but it does impact its ability to be a truly world phone. You have a choice of the 850 or 900 bands but not both, meaning you can't get a model that will work well in Canada _and_ China. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 02:38:21 2008 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:38:21 -0400 Subject: Are there linux drivers for Canon digicams? Message-ID: <20080627223821.tn8r8dvhpwco08g4@mail.math.yorku.ca> specifically the PowerShot A580. Haven't turned up anything useful on Google or LinuxHardware.org but for Google I might just not know how to filter out the useless stuff. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 08:14:39 2008 From: tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:14:39 +0200 Subject: Are there linux drivers for Canon digicams? In-Reply-To: <20080627223821.tn8r8dvhpwco08g4-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> (Mike Oliver's message of "Fri\, 27 Jun 2008 22\:38\:21 -0400") References: <20080627223821.tn8r8dvhpwco08g4@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <87r6aif028.fsf@azurservers.com> Mike Oliver a ?crit profondement: | specifically the PowerShot A580. Haven't turned | up anything useful on Google or LinuxHardware.org | but for Google I might just not know how to filter | out the useless stuff. I will give you this for what it is worth. I have tried it on a Cyberpix and a Pentax It worked since SD cards are vfat in new state even after Pentax formatted the SD card. - the Cyberpix gives a choice of formats but I actually use it "as is" This is "newbie" mode and you are free to alter it but my script goes something like this: hook up your cam to the usb su root (_not_ "su - root") + pw etc mkdir /mnt mkdir /mnt/cam mkdir /home//pix mnt /dev/sda1 /mnt/cam fr (FileRunner) or mc or navigate left panel to /mnt/cam you will find stuff there - descend until pix are visible navigate right panel to /home//pix bring in the pix Good Luk -- SlackRat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 11:10:53 2008 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:10:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fwd: Openmoko Neo Freerunner Group Order] In-Reply-To: <48659C21.7070408-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <1214614056.22485.4.camel@leon> <20080628012238.GN3143@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> <48659C21.7070408@telly.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jun 2008, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I will probably wait for some Android-y phone in a half-year or so from now. > > Android, together with > - the commitment of Palm to a Linux-based platform > - the recent purchase of Symbian by Nokia (and the accompanying intent > to open source Symbian's OS) > - the defection of vendors such as HTC from Windows Mobile to Android > > ... seems to indicate that eventually almost every smartphone that isn't > made in Canada will be running Linux. In this environment, I hope the > OpenMoko platform won't get orphaned if Android and FOSSymbian become > popular. As someone who bought an early Zaurus I don't want to make the > same mistake twice. > > I also note that the OpenMoko is tri-band rather than quad-band. That > will not affect coverage in North America, but it does impact its > ability to be a truly world phone. You have a choice of the 850 or 900 > bands but not both, meaning you can't get a model that will work well in > Canada _and_ China. and despite the fact that i too would love an openmoko, i'd like to see a few more posts along these lines -- bypass the chirpy excitement and discuss the pros and cons of this phone. as evan points out, just cuz something runs linux shouldn't automatically make its purchase a no-brainer. are there any detailed writeups on this sort of thing online anywhere? rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 12:57:03 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:57:03 -0400 Subject: [OT] Playstation 3 and My Music Library In-Reply-To: <486520EF.9080708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <486520EF.9080708@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280806280557o34850b7aj9e55a9d5db98f656@mail.gmail.com> 2008/6/27 Stephen : > I would like to change to a much bigger hard drive and copy all my CDs to it > and play from there. > > I *do not* want to convert to MP3. A friend of mine has been working on a similar idea for a long time (but using a "regular" computer). He was going to use WAV, but eventually went with FLAC, not so much because of the space savings (he thinks it's about 1.7:1) but because FLAC allows file tagging, which WAV doesn't. Doing good tagging is a painful process, but can be extremely useful. I realize this isn't addressing your question, and I'm afraid I can't address it directly. I'll add though that my experience with Rockbox which Asaf mentioned (I used it on an ancient Archos), was extremely positive, and I would definitely suggest giving them a try. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 14:53:31 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:53:31 +0300 Subject: Unlocked iphone availability Message-ID: Pals, I would love to pick the new iphone once the new models become available. I have never bothered looking at this toy before so I know very little other than what I get from the media. This however don?t always happen to be true once you get in the field. My question is, is their a store any where in Toronto where one can pick the phone that is free to use on any network and without going through the pain of unlocking it? If that is not possible in Toronto, are they selling it unlocked any where else? For example in Dubai? I mentioned Dubai as I have a contact there who can pick it and ship it over here for me. I am looking forward to hear people experience and advice as I have to have this toy one way or the other. Thanks in advance. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 15:18:24 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 11:18:24 -0400 Subject: Unlocked iphone availability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48665640.4020503@telly.org> William Muriithi wrote: > I would love to pick the new iphone once the new models become > available. I have never bothered looking at this toy before so I know > very little other than what I get from the media. This however don?t > always happen to be true once you get in the field. > > My question is, is their a store any where in Toronto where one can > pick the phone that is free to use on any network and without going > through the pain of unlocking it? There are stores in Toronto that can sell you an unlocked phone and stores in Toronto that can sell you an iPhone. But, based on the US experience there will be no stores that will legally do both. Official distribution of the iPhone in Toronto will be limited to Rogers (and its subsidiary Fido). Also consider that the iPhone is a GSM phone so it cannot work on Bell or Telus even if unlocked. So you can't switch carriers (unless you consider going between Fido and Rogers to be switching). In any case, there are published reports of how Apple actively works to punish those who unlock their phones by disabling them during software updates. All this can be eventually worked around, but it hardly seems worth the bother to do so. I am sure that will be an underground market for unlocked iPhones in Canada. But with effectively only one carrier that can support it, the only advantage of unlocking is if you travel a lot and want to be able to save roaming costs by buying short term SIM cards in the countries you visit. You can't do that with a locked phone. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 15:41:17 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 11:41:17 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Openmoko Neo Freerunner Group Order] In-Reply-To: References: <1214614056.22485.4.camel@leon> <20080628012238.GN3143@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> <48659C21.7070408@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080628114117.25d9b8aa@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Robert P. J. Day wrote: > as evan points out, just cuz something runs linux shouldn't automatically > make its purchase a no-brainer. c'mon, someone says 'linux toaster' and you'd be _so_ there, admit it ;) -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Cubert: "Robots are very good at keeping secrets." Bender: "No, we're not, you little bed-wetter. Oops, I'm sorry." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 16:16:59 2008 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:16:59 -0400 Subject: Unlocked iphone availability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 10:53 AM, William Muriithi wrote: > Pals, > > I would love to pick the new iphone once the new models become > available. I have never bothered looking at this toy before so I know > very little other than what I get from the media. This however don?t > always happen to be true once you get in the field. > > My question is, is their a store any where in Toronto where one can > pick the phone that is free to use on any network and without going > through the pain of unlocking it? If that is not possible in Toronto, > are they selling it unlocked any where else? For example in Dubai? I > mentioned Dubai as I have a contact there who can pick it and ship it > over here for me. > > I am looking forward to hear people experience and advice as I have to > have this toy one way or the other. Thanks in advance. Sonnam has them: http://www.sonnam.com/detail.asp?prod_ID=885909128525 $600 for an 8G iPhone -- add $100 for an unlocked version. I have an iPod Touch -- it's fantastic. I don't think I'd enjoy an iPhone though -- too much stuff concentrated in one unit. I have a Blackberry for everything else. -- Alex Beamish Toronto, Ontario aka talexb -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 17:25:41 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:25:41 -0400 Subject: Unlocked iphone availability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4386c5b20806281025k33f1b4d3ga3b424bda59ae2ed@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, > > Sonnam has them: > > http://www.sonnam.com/detail.asp?prod_ID=885909128525 > > $600 for an 8G iPhone -- add $100 for an unlocked version. Zowee. It's almost worth the drive to Buffalo to get the $399 version, and you can easily unlock it yourself. I'm pretty confident that the 2.0 version will get unlocked as well. Of course, Sonnam is closer. Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 19:12:10 2008 From: moliver-fC0AHe2n+mcIvw5+aKnW+Pd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Mike Oliver) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:12:10 -0400 Subject: Are there linux drivers for Canon digicams? In-Reply-To: <87r6aif028.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080627223821.tn8r8dvhpwco08g4@mail.math.yorku.ca> <87r6aif028.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <20080628151210.kpncpjasgkcc4s04@mail.math.yorku.ca> Quoting Slackrat : > Mike Oliver a ?crit profondement: > > | specifically the PowerShot A580. > mkdir /mnt > mkdir /mnt/cam > mkdir /home//pix > mnt /dev/sda1 /mnt/cam Thanks for the effort. Unfortunately when I turn it on and hook up the USB cable, "blkid" shows no new block devices at all. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 20:11:12 2008 From: tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:11:12 +0200 Subject: Are there linux drivers for Canon digicams? In-Reply-To: <20080628151210.kpncpjasgkcc4s04-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> (Mike Oliver's message of "Sat\, 28 Jun 2008 15\:12\:10 -0400") References: <20080627223821.tn8r8dvhpwco08g4@mail.math.yorku.ca> <87r6aif028.fsf@azurservers.com> <20080628151210.kpncpjasgkcc4s04@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <87myl548wv.fsf@azurservers.com> Mike Oliver a ?crit profondement: | Thanks for the effort. Unfortunately when I turn it on | and hook up the USB cable, "blkid" shows no new block | devices at all. That really is too bad. With the Pentax I get: bash-3.1# blkid /dev/hda1: UUID="3233ece9-86ee-4441-97bb-98b02788fe09" TYPE="reiserfs" /dev/hda2: UUID="7a384f4e-a1c5-42b9-813b-740757ca724a" TYPE="reiserfs" /dev/hda3: UUID="3fa684d5-def3-4e7c-88dd-21a477e2a138" TYPE="reiserfs" /dev/hda5: UUID="b9120d7e-c90e-4f3c-a76b-81b31308866b" TYPE="reiserfs" /dev/hda6: UUID="d3f9c51f-9e16-4c44-bcd3-6d9e7dd0ae63" TYPE="reiserfs" /dev/hda7: TYPE="swap" UUID="d0e476ca-1af9-4ef9-891d-8362d67a0a71" /dev/hdc: TYPE="iso9660" /dev/sda1: UUID="0000-0000" SEC_TYPE="msdos" TYPE="vfat" bash-3.1# bash-3.1# bash-3.1# mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/usbflash bash-3.1# bash-3.1# bash-3.1# mount /dev/hda1 on / type reiserfs (rw) proc on /proc type proc (rw) /dev/hda2 on /mnt/hda2 type reiserfs (rw,nosuid,nodev) /dev/hda3 on /mnt/hda3 type reiserfs (rw,nosuid,nodev) /dev/hda5 on /mnt/hda5 type reiserfs (rw,nosuid,nodev) /dev/hda6 on /mnt/hda6 type reiserfs (rw,nosuid,nodev) devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,gid=5,mode=620) usbfs on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw) /dev/sda1 on /mnt/usbflash type vfat (rw) bash-3.1# bash-3.1# bash-3.1# lsusb Bus 003 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 Bus 002 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 Bus 002 Device 002: ID 046d:c50e Logitech, Inc. MX-1000 Cordless Mouse Receiver Bus 002 Device 003: ID 0a17:0097 Pentax Corp. Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 bash-3.1# bash-3.1# bash-3.1# ls /mnt/usbflash/dcim/100_0621/* /mnt/usbflash/dcim/100_0621/imgp0505.jpg bash-3.1# The Cyberpix works more or less the same but with no subdirs off "dcim" -- SlackRat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 22:04:35 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 18:04:35 -0400 Subject: Unlocked iphone availability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4866B573.1020308@rogers.com> William Muriithi wrote: > Pals, > > I would love to pick the new iphone once the new models become > available. I have never bothered looking at this toy before so I know > very little other than what I get from the media. This however don?t > always happen to be true once you get in the field. > > My question is, is their a store any where in Toronto where one can > pick the phone that is free to use on any network and without going > through the pain of unlocking it? If that is not possible in Toronto, > are they selling it unlocked any where else? For example in Dubai? I > mentioned Dubai as I have a contact there who can pick it and ship it > over here for me. > > I am looking forward to hear people experience and advice as I have to > have this toy one way or the other. Thanks in advance. > > Locked or not, the only Canadian service you can use it with is Rogers/Fido. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 23:16:48 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:16:48 -0400 Subject: [OT] Playstation 3 and My Music Library (Now on Topic) In-Reply-To: <1f13df280806280557o34850b7aj9e55a9d5db98f656-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <486520EF.9080708@rogers.com> <1f13df280806280557o34850b7aj9e55a9d5db98f656@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4866C660.4040103@rogers.com> How about getting this on topic? I was at the Dyke Parade today and after the parade was over and my camera packed away my lady and I stopped for a beer. I was explaining to her what I was trying to do, and a chap next to us suggested installing Ubuntu and using open source software to do what I want to do. WTF? Holy out of the box, Batman! Took me a very short time to find: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PlayStation_3 This will be a bit of a project that I will not rush, but I will report back as I progress. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Jun 28 23:11:36 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Internet Radio Receivers? Message-ID: <13043.99.253.255.228.1214694696.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Has anyone in this group purchased an internet radio receiver? I'd like to find one with an ethernet connection (ie, not wireless) and audio out jacks that I can plug into a conventional audio power amplifier. Bay-Bloor radio has some units, one of which has 7 audio output channels with nearly a kilowatt of output power. That seems like overkill for a home-office background music system ;). Comments on music quality would also be useful. Most of these things seem to be Linux based, so I assume it's OK to ask this question here... Thanks - -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 29 04:45:20 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 00:45:20 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Openmoko Neo Freerunner Group Order] In-Reply-To: <20080628114117.25d9b8aa-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <1214614056.22485.4.camel@leon> <20080628012238.GN3143@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> <48659C21.7070408@telly.org> <20080628114117.25d9b8aa@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 11:41 AM, JoeHill wrote: > Robert P. J. Day wrote: > >> as evan points out, just cuz something runs linux shouldn't automatically >> make its purchase a no-brainer. > > c'mon, someone says 'linux toaster' and you'd be _so_ there, admit it ;) I'm afraid I have been disappointed by this too many times, starting with the Agenda / VR3. It looked like a Palm Pilot, ran Linux on MIPS with 16MB of memory, and *seemed* promising. Unfortunately, the "sync" offered only worked with Windows95; there was no "Linux interoperability." Evan mention the Zaurus; that had enough resources to be more plausibly "general purpose," but in practice, syncing data between desktop and PDA never played out as easily as has *long* been the case with the proprietary PalmOS using the Kadak AMX kernel. To this day, it's easier to sync a PalmOS PDA against Linux-based apps than pretty well anything else. After being bitten enough times... -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 29 11:02:03 2008 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:02:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fwd: Openmoko Neo Freerunner Group Order] In-Reply-To: <20080628114117.25d9b8aa-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <1214614056.22485.4.camel@leon> <20080628012238.GN3143@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> <48659C21.7070408@telly.org> <20080628114117.25d9b8aa@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jun 2008, JoeHill wrote: > Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > > as evan points out, just cuz something runs linux shouldn't > > automatically make its purchase a no-brainer. > > c'mon, someone says 'linux toaster' and you'd be _so_ there, admit > it ;) hey!! that linux toaster was a *gift*. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 29 15:45:15 2008 From: djp-tnsZcVQxgqO2dHQpreyxbg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:45:15 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Openmoko Neo Freerunner Group Order] In-Reply-To: <20080628114117.25d9b8aa-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <1214614056.22485.4.camel@leon> <20080628012238.GN3143@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> <48659C21.7070408@telly.org> <20080628114117.25d9b8aa@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <20080629154515.GR3143@scarab.int.linuxcaffe.ca> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 11:41:17AM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > > as evan points out, just cuz something runs linux shouldn't automatically > > make its purchase a no-brainer. > > c'mon, someone says 'linux toaster' and you'd be _so_ there, admit it ;) There's a linux toaster now ? where do I get one ? why didn't anyone tell me ? Analog toast just doesn't cut it in todays fast paced world Thanks for the hot-and-perfectly-browned tip, Mr Hill ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jun 29 20:26:26 2008 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: <4856F3E2.6010704-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> <4856F3E2.6010704@telly.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jun 2008, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Alex Maynard wrote: >> Jamon, Thanks for the good suggestion. Any particularly large software >> packages that I could safely remove. > > Then there are old versions of stuff. Usually when Ubuntu installs a new > kernel it doesn't get rid of the old one, so you might have duplicate > old kernels hanging around. Try the command > to see how many kernel versions you have installed. I was out of town for a while and now trying to follow up on some of these good suggestions. It looks like I have a lot kernal images installed but I'm not sure which I can remove. It's a new computer so I did a fresh installation. Maybe that means that all are needed. ~/share$ sudo apt-cache search linux-image alsa-base - ALSA driver configuration files rt2400-source - source for rt2400 wireless network driver rt2500-source - source for rt2500 wireless network driver virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.22-14-generic - virtualbox-ose modules for linux-image-2.6.22-14-generic virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.22-14-server - virtualbox-ose modules for linux-image-2.6.22-14-server xen-image-2.6.19-4-generic - Linux 2.6.19 image on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4 xen-image-2.6.19-4-server - Linux xen 2.6.19 image on x86. linux-image - Generic Linux kernel image. linux-image-2.6.22-14-386 - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on i386 linux-image-2.6.22-14-generic - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on x86/x86_64 linux-image-2.6.22-14-server - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on x86/x86_64 linux-image-2.6.22-14-virtual - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on x86 linux-image-2.6.22-15-386 - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on i386 linux-image-2.6.22-15-generic - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on x86/x86_64 linux-image-2.6.22-15-server - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on x86/x86_64 linux-image-2.6.22-15-virtual - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on x86 linux-image-386 - Linux kernel image on 386. linux-image-debug-2.6.22-14-386 - Linux kernel debug image for version 2.6.22 on i386 linux-image-debug-2.6.22-14-generic - Linux kernel debug image for version 2.6.22 on x86/x86_64 linux-image-debug-2.6.22-14-server - Linux kernel debug image for version 2.6.22 on x86/x86_64 linux-image-debug-2.6.22-14-virtual - Linux kernel debug image for version 2.6.22 on x86 linux-image-debug-2.6.22-15-386 - Linux kernel debug image for version 2.6.22 on i386 linux-image-debug-2.6.22-15-generic - Linux kernel debug image for version 2.6.22 on x86/x86_64 linux-image-debug-2.6.22-15-server - Linux kernel debug image for version 2.6.22 on x86/x86_64 linux-image-debug-2.6.22-15-virtual - Linux kernel debug image for version 2.6.22 on x86 linux-image-debug-386 - Linux kernel debug image for 386 kernel image linux-image-debug-generic - Linux kernel debug image for generic kernel image linux-image-debug-server - Linux kernel debug image for server kernel image linux-image-generic - Generic Linux kernel image linux-image-server - Linux kernel image on Server Equipment. linux-image-virtual - Linux kernel image geared towards virtualised hardware linux-image-2.6.22-14-rt - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on RT kernel linux-image-2.6.22-14-ume - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on Ubuntu Moblie and Embedded linux-image-2.6.22-14-xen - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on This kernel can be used for Xen dom0 and domU linux-image-2.6.22-15-rt - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on RT kernel linux-image-2.6.22-15-ume - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on Ubuntu Moblie and Embedded linux-image-2.6.22-15-xen - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on This kernel can be used for Xen dom0 and domU linux-image-debug-ume - Linux kernel debug image for ume kernel image linux-image-rt - Linux kernel image on realtime kernel linux-image-ume - Linux kernel image on 386 Embedded/Mobile linux-image-xen - Linux kernel image on Xen > One other thing that Ubuntu tends to do is to install every possible X > server ... once you know which one you're using. Try xserver> to see if you have anything you can get rid of there... I guess I have a similiar question: which of these x-server packages look safe to remove? amaynard at asus:~/share$ sudo apt-cache search xserver displayconfig-gtk - Simple tool to change xserver settings isdnutils-base - ISDN utilities, the basic (minimal) set xserver-xorg - the X.Org X server xserver-xorg-input-all - the X.Org X server -- input driver metapackage xserver-xorg-input-elographics - X.Org X server -- ELOGraphics input driver xserver-xorg-input-evdev - X.Org X server -- evdev input driver xserver-xorg-input-kbd - X.Org X server -- keyboard input driver xserver-xorg-input-mouse - X.Org X server -- mouse input driver xserver-xorg-input-synaptics - Synaptics TouchPad driver for X.Org server xserver-xorg-input-wacom - X.Org X server -- wacom input driver xserver-xorg-video-all - the X.Org X server -- output driver metapackage xserver-xorg-video-amd - X.Org X server -- AMD Geode GX/LX display driver xserver-xorg-video-amd-dbg - X.Org X server -- AMD Geode GX/LX display driver (debugging symbols) xserver-xorg-video-apm - X.Org X server -- APM display driver xserver-xorg-video-ark - X.Org X server -- ark display driver xserver-xorg-video-ati - X.Org X server -- ATI display driver xserver-xorg-video-ati-dbg - X.Org X server -- ATI display driver (debugging symbols) xserver-xorg-video-chips - X.Org X server -- Chips display driver xserver-xorg-video-cirrus - X.Org X server -- Cirrus display driver xserver-xorg-video-cyrix - X.Org X server -- Cyrix display driver xserver-xorg-video-dummy - X.Org X server -- dummy display driver xserver-xorg-video-fbdev - X.Org X server -- fbdev display driver xserver-xorg-video-glint - X.Org X server -- Glint display driver xserver-xorg-video-i128 - X.Org X server -- i128 display driver xserver-xorg-video-i740 - X.Org X server -- i740 display driver xserver-xorg-video-i810 - X.Org X server -- Intel i8xx, i9xx display driver xserver-xorg-video-imstt - X.Org X server -- IMSTT display driver xserver-xorg-video-mga - X.Org X server -- MGA display driver xserver-xorg-video-neomagic - X.Org X server -- Neomagic display driver xserver-xorg-video-newport - X.Org X server -- Newport display driver xserver-xorg-video-nsc - X.Org X server -- NSC display driver xserver-xorg-video-nv - X.Org X server -- NV display driver xserver-xorg-video-psb - 2D graphics driver for Poulsbo xserver-xorg-video-rendition - X.Org X server -- Rendition display driver xserver-xorg-video-s3 - X.Org X server -- legacy S3 display driver xserver-xorg-video-s3virge - X.Org X server -- S3 ViRGE display driver xserver-xorg-video-savage - X.Org X server -- Savage display driver xserver-xorg-video-siliconmotion - X.Org X server -- SiliconMotion display driver xserver-xorg-video-sis - X.Org X server -- SiS display driver xserver-xorg-video-sisusb - X.Org X server -- SiS USB display driver xserver-xorg-video-tdfx - X.Org X server -- tdfx display driver xserver-xorg-video-tga - X.Org X server -- TGA display driver xserver-xorg-video-trident - X.Org X server -- Trident display driver xserver-xorg-video-tseng - X.Org X server -- Tseng display driver xserver-xorg-video-v4l - X.Org X server -- Video 4 Linux display driver xserver-xorg-video-vesa - X.Org X server -- VESA display driver xserver-xorg-video-vga - X.Org X server -- VGA display driver xserver-xorg-video-via - X.Org X server -- VIA display driver xserver-xorg-video-vmware - X.Org X server -- VMware display driver xserver-xorg-video-voodoo - X.Org X server -- Voodoo display driver 915resolution - resolution modification tool for Intel graphic chipset isdnutils - Most important ISDN-related packages and utilities isdnvboxclient - ISDN answering machine, client isdnvboxserver - ISDN answering machine, server skippy - full-screen X11 task/window switcher, similar to OSX Expose tightvncserver - virtual network computing server software ts10 - Emulators for PDP-10, PDP-11, VAX ucspi-unix - UNIX-domain socket client-server command-line tools vncserver - Virtual network computing server software wmcb - Dockapp that displays the cut buffer content xdebconfigurator - A script used with debconf to autoconfigure xserver-xorg xserver-xfree86 - transitional package for moving from XFree86 to X.Org xserver-xgl - GL-based X server xserver-xorg-input-acecad - X.Org X server -- AceCad input driver xserver-xorg-input-aiptek - X.Org X server -- Aiptek input driver xserver-xorg-input-calcomp - X.Org X server -- Calcomp input driver xserver-xorg-input-citron - X.Org X server -- Citron input driver xserver-xorg-input-digitaledge - X.Org X server -- DigitalEdge input driver xserver-xorg-input-dmc - X.Org X server -- DMC input driver xserver-xorg-input-dynapro - X.Org X server -- Dynapro input driver xserver-xorg-input-elo2300 - X.Org X server -- ELO2300 input driver xserver-xorg-input-evtouch - Touchscreen-Driver for X.Org/XFree86 server xserver-xorg-input-fpit - X.Org X server -- FPIT input driver xserver-xorg-input-hyperpen - X.Org X server -- HyperPen input driver xserver-xorg-input-jamstudio - X.Org X server -- JamStudio input driver xserver-xorg-input-joystick - X.Org X server -- joystick input driver xserver-xorg-input-magellan - X.Org X server -- Magellan input driver xserver-xorg-input-magictouch - X.Org X server -- MagicTouch input driver xserver-xorg-input-microtouch - X.Org X server -- MicroTouch input driver xserver-xorg-input-mutouch - X.Org X server -- muTouch input driver xserver-xorg-input-palmax - X.Org X server -- Palmax input driver xserver-xorg-input-penmount - X.Org X server -- Penmount input driver xserver-xorg-input-spaceorb - X.Org X server -- SpaceOrb input driver xserver-xorg-input-summa - X.Org X server -- Summa input driver xserver-xorg-input-tek4957 - X.Org X server -- Tek4957 input driver xserver-xorg-input-ur98 - X.Org X server -- UR98 input driver xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse - X.Org X server -- vmmouse input driver xserver-xorg-input-void - X.Org X server -- void input driver xserver-xorg-video-avivo - X.Org X server -- Avivo display driver xserver-xorg-video-openchrome - X.Org X server -- VIA display driver xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd - X.Org X server -- AMD/ATI r5xx, r6xx display driver xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd-dbg - X.Org X server -- AMD/ATI r5xx, r6xx display driver xserver-xorg-video-unichrome - X.Org X server -- VIA display driver xnest - Nested X server xserver-xephyr - Next Generation Nested X Server xserver-xorg-core - X.Org X server -- core server xserver-xorg-core-dbg - Xorg - the X.Org X server (debugging symbols) xserver-xorg-dev - X.Org X server -- development files xserver-xorg-video-intel - X.Org X server -- Intel i8xx, i9xx display driver xvfb - Virtual Framebuffer 'fake' X server nvidia-glx - NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x/X.Org driver nvidia-glx-new - NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x/X.Org 'new' driver xorg-driver-fglrx - Video driver for ATI graphics accelerators xdmx - Distributed Multihead X server xdmx-tools - Distributed Multihead X tools nvidia-glx-legacy - NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x/X.Org 'legacy' driver Thanks again so much for the suggestions! Alex > > Hope this helps.... > > - Evan > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 00:44:36 2008 From: tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:44:36 +0200 Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: (Alex Maynard's message of "Sun\, 29 Jun 2008 16\:26\:26 -0400 \(EDT\)") References: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> <4856F3E2.6010704@telly.org> Message-ID: <87hcbboiob.fsf@azurservers.com> Alex Maynard a ?crit profondement: | I was out of town for a while and now trying to follow up on some of | these good suggestions. It looks like I have a lot kernal images | installed but I'm not sure which I can remove. It's a new computer so | I did a fresh installation. Maybe that means that all are needed. | "cat /proc/version" ? -- SlackRat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 01:11:48 2008 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:11:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: <87hcbboiob.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> <4856F3E2.6010704@telly.org> <87hcbboiob.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jun 2008, Slackrat wrote: > Alex Maynard a ?crit profondement: > > > | I was out of town for a while and now trying to follow up on some of > | these good suggestions. It looks like I have a lot kernal images > | installed but I'm not sure which I can remove. It's a new computer so > | I did a fresh installation. Maybe that means that all are needed. > | > > "cat /proc/version" ? Linux version 2.6.22-14-generic (buildd at terranova) (gcc version 4.1.3 20070929 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.1.2-16ubuntu2)) #1 SMP Tue Feb 12 07:42:25 UTC 2008 Thank you. Alex > > -- > SlackRat > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 04:08:08 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:08:08 -0400 Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: References: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> <4856F3E2.6010704@telly.org> Message-ID: <48685C28.6040708@telly.org> Alex Maynard wrote: > > On Mon, 16 Jun 2008, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> Alex Maynard wrote: >>> Jamon, Thanks for the good suggestion. Any particularly large software >>> packages that I could safely remove. >> >> Then there are old versions of stuff. Usually when Ubuntu installs a new >> kernel it doesn't get rid of the old one, so you might have duplicate >> old kernels hanging around. Try the command > linux-image> >> to see how many kernel versions you have installed. > > I was out of town for a while and now trying to follow up on some of > these good suggestions. It looks like I have a lot kernal images > installed but I'm not sure which I can remove. It's a new computer so > I did a fresh installation. Maybe that means that all are needed. > > ~/share$ sudo apt-cache search linux-image > alsa-base - ALSA driver configuration files > rt2400-source - source for rt2400 wireless network driver > rt2500-source - source for rt2500 wireless network driver > virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.22-14-generic - virtualbox-ose modules for > linux-image-2.6.22-14-generic > virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.22-14-server - virtualbox-ose modules for > linux-image-2.6.22-14-server > xen-image-2.6.19-4-generic - Linux 2.6.19 image on > PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4 > xen-image-2.6.19-4-server - Linux xen 2.6.19 image on x86. > linux-image - Generic Linux kernel image. > linux-image-2.6.22-14-386 - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on i386 > linux-image-2.6.22-14-generic - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 > on x86/x86_64 > linux-image-2.6.22-14-server - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 > on x86/x86_64 > linux-image-2.6.22-14-virtual - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 > on x86 > linux-image-2.6.22-15-386 - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on i386 > linux-image-2.6.22-15-generic - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 > on x86/x86_64 > linux-image-2.6.22-15-server - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 > on x86/x86_64 > linux-image-2.6.22-15-virtual - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 > on x86 > linux-image-386 - Linux kernel image on 386. > linux-image-debug-2.6.22-14-386 - Linux kernel debug image for version > 2.6.22 on i386 > linux-image-debug-2.6.22-14-generic - Linux kernel debug image for > version 2.6.22 on x86/x86_64 > linux-image-debug-2.6.22-14-server - Linux kernel debug image for > version 2.6.22 on x86/x86_64 > linux-image-debug-2.6.22-14-virtual - Linux kernel debug image for > version 2.6.22 on x86 > linux-image-debug-2.6.22-15-386 - Linux kernel debug image for version > 2.6.22 on i386 > linux-image-debug-2.6.22-15-generic - Linux kernel debug image for > version 2.6.22 on x86/x86_64 > linux-image-debug-2.6.22-15-server - Linux kernel debug image for > version 2.6.22 on x86/x86_64 > linux-image-debug-2.6.22-15-virtual - Linux kernel debug image for > version 2.6.22 on x86 > linux-image-debug-386 - Linux kernel debug image for 386 kernel image > linux-image-debug-generic - Linux kernel debug image for generic > kernel image > linux-image-debug-server - Linux kernel debug image for server kernel > image > linux-image-generic - Generic Linux kernel image > linux-image-server - Linux kernel image on Server Equipment. > linux-image-virtual - Linux kernel image geared towards virtualised > hardware > linux-image-2.6.22-14-rt - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on RT > kernel > linux-image-2.6.22-14-ume - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on > Ubuntu Moblie and Embedded > linux-image-2.6.22-14-xen - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on > This kernel can be used for Xen dom0 and domU > linux-image-2.6.22-15-rt - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on RT > kernel > linux-image-2.6.22-15-ume - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on > Ubuntu Moblie and Embedded > linux-image-2.6.22-15-xen - Linux kernel image for version 2.6.22 on > This kernel can be used for Xen dom0 and domU > linux-image-debug-ume - Linux kernel debug image for ume kernel image > linux-image-rt - Linux kernel image on realtime kernel > linux-image-ume - Linux kernel image on 386 Embedded/Mobile > linux-image-xen - Linux kernel image on Xen The next time you boot, Ubuntu will ask which kernel to boot from. Chhose the latest one (which for you is 2.6.22-15). If you boot successfully with that then you can probably delete anything older, which includes any files containing "2.6.22-14". (Some people have multiple old versions lying around.) > I guess I have a similiar question: which of these x-server packages > look safe to remove? > > > amaynard at asus:~/share$ sudo apt-cache search xserver > displayconfig-gtk - Simple tool to change xserver settings > isdnutils-base - ISDN utilities, the basic (minimal) set > xserver-xorg - the X.Org X server > xserver-xorg-input-all - the X.Org X server -- input driver metapackage > xserver-xorg-input-elographics - X.Org X server -- ELOGraphics input > driver > xserver-xorg-input-evdev - X.Org X server -- evdev input driver > xserver-xorg-input-kbd - X.Org X server -- keyboard input driver > xserver-xorg-input-mouse - X.Org X server -- mouse input driver > xserver-xorg-input-synaptics - Synaptics TouchPad driver for X.Org server > xserver-xorg-input-wacom - X.Org X server -- wacom input driver [...] Sorry, but I don't know this one myself. Perhaps there is someone else who can help. I don't know the commend to query the X server to find what drivers it is using (so you can delete the others). - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 11:37:28 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:37:28 +0300 Subject: Recovery procedures of NTFS filesystem Message-ID: Hi all, I just did a very damn mistake. I really can believe I can do such a silly mistake. I was attempting to set a dual boot on a system with two hard disk . Some how, I wasn?t careful enough and when it came to time to point the installer to the destination hard disk, I did the reverse. I only came to learn of the mistake when I got the error that their is not enough space. Now, I have a hard disk that had a NTFS file system but now has ext3 file system. I don?t think the installer dumped the operating system on it. Is there any possibility or recovering the data from this disk? What would be the best tools and procedure to undertake such a recovery? I really did mess myself big here and would really appreaciate any help. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 11:44:03 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:44:03 -0400 Subject: Recovery procedures of NTFS filesystem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4868C703.4010802@utoronto.ca> William Muriithi wrote: > Hi all, > > I just did a very damn mistake. I really can believe I can do such a > silly mistake. I was attempting to set a dual boot on a system with > two hard disk . Some how, I wasn?t careful enough and when it came to > time to point the installer to the destination hard disk, I did the > reverse. I only came to learn of the mistake when I got the error that > their is not enough space. > > Now, I have a hard disk that had a NTFS file system but now has ext3 > file system. I don?t think the installer dumped the operating system > on it. Is there any possibility or recovering the data from this disk? > What would be the best tools and procedure to undertake such a > recovery? I really did mess myself big here and would really > appreaciate any help. TestDisk should be all you need: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 12:28:09 2008 From: lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Julian C. Dunn) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:28:09 -0400 Subject: Internet Radio Receivers? In-Reply-To: <13043.99.253.255.228.1214694696.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <13043.99.253.255.228.1214694696.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1214828889.2799.13.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> On Sat, 2008-06-28 at 19:11 -0400, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Has anyone in this group purchased an internet radio receiver? I'd like to > find one with an ethernet connection (ie, not wireless) and audio out > jacks that I can plug into a conventional audio power amplifier. > > Bay-Bloor radio has some units, one of which has 7 audio output channels > with nearly a kilowatt of output power. That seems like overkill for a > home-office background music system ;). > > Comments on music quality would also be useful. > > Most of these things seem to be Linux based, so I assume it's OK to ask > this question here... One of the audio systems guys at work bought one of these recently: http://www.chumby.com/ It looks pretty decent, and the fidelity is quite good. It can decode MP3 and Ogg Vorbis streams, and as you can see from the homepage, has a gazillion other features. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * Sorry, I'm ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian * only Web 1.0 ] [ gopher://sdf.lonestar.org/11/users/keymaker * compliant! ] [ PGP: 91B3 7A9D 683C 7C16 715F 442C 6065 D533 FDC2 05B9 ] -- [ Julian C. Dunn * Sorry, I'm ] [ WWW: http://www.aquezada.com/staff/julian * only Web 1.0 ] [ gopher://sdf.lonestar.org/11/users/keymaker * compliant! ] [ PGP: 91B3 7A9D 683C 7C16 715F 442C 6065 D533 FDC2 05B9 ] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 12:45:51 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:45:51 +0300 Subject: Recovery procedures of NTFS filesystem In-Reply-To: <4868C703.4010802-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4868C703.4010802@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Camisso, The tool just seem to think its ext3. I think its not intelligent enough to look beyond the file system table - to look at data themself - and under take the reversal I am attempting. Would this be true or is it that I am not using it well? Regards, William 2008/6/30 Jamon Camisso : > William Muriithi wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I just did a very damn mistake. I really can believe I can do such a >> silly mistake. I was attempting to set a dual boot on a system with >> two hard disk . Some how, I wasn?t careful enough and when it came to >> time to point the installer to the destination hard disk, I did the >> reverse. I only came to learn of the mistake when I got the error that >> their is not enough space. >> >> Now, I have a hard disk that had a NTFS file system but now has ext3 >> file system. I don?t think the installer dumped the operating system >> on it. Is there any possibility or recovering the data from this disk? >> What would be the best tools and procedure to undertake such a >> recovery? I really did mess myself big here and would really >> appreaciate any help. > > TestDisk should be all you need: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk > > Jamon > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 12:53:31 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:53:31 -0400 Subject: Recovery procedures of NTFS filesystem In-Reply-To: References: <4868C703.4010802@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4868D74B.70905@utoronto.ca> William Muriithi wrote: > Camisso, > > The tool just seem to think its ext3. I think its not intelligent > enough to look beyond the file system table - to look at data themself > - and under take the reversal I am attempting. Would this be true or > is it that I am not using it well? Ah, right, that's because it is ext3 now. If the installer ran mkfs.ext3 then the data is pretty much gone. Recovering the partition table wouldn't get it back either unfortunately. Sorry to have instilled false hope :( Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 12:54:33 2008 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:54:33 -0400 Subject: Recovery procedures of NTFS filesystem In-Reply-To: References: <4868C703.4010802@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4868D789.3000801@totaltravelmarketing.com> William Muriithi wrote: > Camisso, > > The tool just seem to think its ext3. I think its not intelligent > enough to look beyond the file system table - to look at data themself > - and under take the reversal I am attempting. Would this be true or > is it that I am not using it well? > > Regards, > William > > 2008/6/30 Jamon Camisso : >> William Muriithi wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I just did a very damn mistake. I really can believe I can do such a >>> silly mistake. I was attempting to set a dual boot on a system with >>> two hard disk . Some how, I wasn?t careful enough and when it came to >>> time to point the installer to the destination hard disk, I did the >>> reverse. I only came to learn of the mistake when I got the error that >>> their is not enough space. >>> >>> Now, I have a hard disk that had a NTFS file system but now has ext3 >>> file system. I don?t think the installer dumped the operating system >>> on it. Is there any possibility or recovering the data from this disk? >>> What would be the best tools and procedure to undertake such a >>> recovery? I really did mess myself big here and would really >>> appreaciate any help. >> TestDisk should be all you need: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk >> >> Jamon >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > Have you tried using a ubuntu live cd, their partitioning tool is pretty intelligent reading different types of formats -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 14:47:58 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:47:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Recovery procedures of NTFS filesystem In-Reply-To: <4868D74B.70905-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4868C703.4010802@utoronto.ca> <4868D74B.70905@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jun 2008, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Ah, right, that's because it is ext3 now. If the installer ran mkfs.ext3 then > the data is pretty much gone. Recovering the partition table wouldn't get it > back either unfortunately. Sorry to have instilled false hope :( Not necessarily. The data is largely untouched but all the references are gone. There are tools which will scan the disk itself and attempt to recover files or pieces of files. I've run these on ex-NTFS filesystems before. I can't promise success but there are things to try. Don't expect this to be quick - one tool I used scanned an 300GB NTFS disk for many hours. William, the key is to not do anything else to the disk (reparition again, or whatever) without careful thought. I can't remember the name of the tool I used last time but I'll see if I can remember. Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 15:07:50 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:07:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Recovery procedures of NTFS filesystem In-Reply-To: References: <4868C703.4010802@utoronto.ca> <4868D74B.70905@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jun 2008, Robert Brockway wrote: On Mon, 30 Jun 2008, I wrote: > William, the key is to not do anything else to the disk (reparition again, or > whatever) without careful thought. I can't remember the name of the tool I > used last time but I'll see if I can remember. So I note you already tried TestDisk. Here are some options: Gpart: http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/user/76201/gpart/ This can try to recover old partition tables by looking for partition boundaries on the disk. Foremost: http://foremost.sourceforge.net/ This can scan the disk looking for likely suspects that are files. One safe option if you have the ability is to dd an image of the disk to a file on another disk and attempt recovery on the file. This means you won't mess with the original data. If the image gets messed up you can just make another. If you're not familar with creating a loopback filesystem we can help. If this data is really important, and it is worth it, you may wish to contact a data recovery specialist. This process can be expensive. Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 17:13:34 2008 From: maynarda-dxuVLtCph9gsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 13:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Disk full -- any suggestions on what to move to SD card? In-Reply-To: <48685C28.6040708-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48567538.8050907@utoronto.ca> <4856F3E2.6010704@telly.org> <48685C28.6040708@telly.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jun 2008, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Alex Maynard wrote: >> >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> >>> Alex Maynard wrote: >>> Then there are old versions of stuff. Usually when Ubuntu installs a new >>> kernel it doesn't get rid of the old one, so you might have duplicate >>> old kernels hanging around. Try the command >> linux-image> >>> to see how many kernel versions you have installed. >> > > The next time you boot, Ubuntu will ask which kernel to boot from. > Chhose the latest one (which for you is 2.6.22-15). If you boot > successfully with that then you can probably delete anything older, > which includes any files containing "2.6.22-14". > > (Some people have multiple old versions lying around.) Thanks very much. I tried taking out just 2.6.22-14 using something like apt-get -y remove 2.6.22-14* but it for some reason I don't understand it also took out 2.6.22-14. I guess should have been more careful in looking up the right command. Now I am reinstalling xubuntu which looks like it uses less hard drive space. Alex > > >> I guess I have a similiar question: which of these x-server packages >> look safe to remove? >> >> >> amaynard at asus:~/share$ sudo apt-cache search xserver >> displayconfig-gtk - Simple tool to change xserver settings >> isdnutils-base - ISDN utilities, the basic (minimal) set >> xserver-xorg - the X.Org X server >> xserver-xorg-input-all - the X.Org X server -- input driver metapackage >> xserver-xorg-input-elographics - X.Org X server -- ELOGraphics input >> driver >> xserver-xorg-input-evdev - X.Org X server -- evdev input driver >> xserver-xorg-input-kbd - X.Org X server -- keyboard input driver >> xserver-xorg-input-mouse - X.Org X server -- mouse input driver >> xserver-xorg-input-synaptics - Synaptics TouchPad driver for X.Org server >> xserver-xorg-input-wacom - X.Org X server -- wacom input driver > [...] > > Sorry, but I don't know this one myself. Perhaps there is someone else > who can help. I don't know the commend to query the X server to find > what drivers it is using (so you can delete the others). > > - Evan > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 17:10:58 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:10:58 +0300 Subject: Recovery procedures of NTFS filesystem In-Reply-To: References: <4868C703.4010802@utoronto.ca> <4868D74B.70905@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Robert, Thanks for encouragement. I am progressing very carefully from here. A question, what exactly does mkfsext3 do? Does it go over all the sectors putting down marking or does it just mess up with partition table? What the main difference between mkfs and formatting? Regards, William 2008/6/30 Robert Brockway : > On Mon, 30 Jun 2008, Robert Brockway wrote: > > On Mon, 30 Jun 2008, I wrote: > >> William, the key is to not do anything else to the disk (reparition again, >> or >> whatever) without careful thought. I can't remember the name of the tool >> I >> used last time but I'll see if I can remember. > > So I note you already tried TestDisk. Here are some options: > > Gpart: http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/user/76201/gpart/ > > This can try to recover old partition tables by looking for partition > boundaries on the disk. > > Foremost: http://foremost.sourceforge.net/ > > This can scan the disk looking for likely suspects that are files. > > One safe option if you have the ability is to dd an image of the disk to a > file on another disk and attempt recovery on the file. This means you won't > mess with the original data. If the image gets messed up you can just make > another. If you're not familar with creating a loopback filesystem we can > help. > > If this data is really important, and it is worth it, you may wish to > contact a data recovery specialist. This process can be expensive. > > Rob > > -- > "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." > -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 18:34:16 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:34:16 -0400 Subject: list admin, broken link in footer Message-ID: <1214850856.8335.3.camel@jaguar-hardy> ? Greetings, ( Looking at I did not notice an address for the list administrator. If there is a better way for me to handle an issue like this, please tell me. And, then, should I add that information to the wiki page? ) The footer on messages from the mail list include a link Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ That address is currently 404-AWOL. May I suggest instead Web site: http://tlug.ss.org/wiki/Main_Page Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 20:26:17 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:26:17 -0400 Subject: evolution: problem sending email Message-ID: <1214857577.8335.25.camel@jaguar-hardy> Greetings, I am using Evolution 2.22.2 on Ubuntu Hardy. At least one of my available SMTP servers requires authentication. (Natch!) Sometimes, Evolution prompts for my password on that server, and the transmission succeeds. Sometimes, despite everything I can think of trying, Evolution does not prompt for the password, and the server reports "Relay access denied". The latter situation is more common, to the extent that I expect to have to paste this message into a telnet session at the command prompt. ( Well, I just (Monday, 14:16) succeeded once again. Holding off on sending this. Okay, I have had a couple of hours of good usage. Now, 16:20, its failing again.) Along the way, I have taken the menu option File > Forget passwords, I have checked and unchecked the "remember password" option, I have cancelled all Evolution jobs and restarted Evolution, and I have deleted and reentered the mail account. My question on ubuntuforums.org has brought no response. The debugging output suggested by has been helpful only to the extent of pointing my suspicions to Evolution rather than the SMTP server. Some of the reported bugs I found sound similar to my situation, but still a bit different. Sigh! I would appreciate any suggestions about what I can do or what I should read. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jun 30 21:34:14 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Recovery procedures of NTFS filesystem In-Reply-To: References: <4868C703.4010802@utoronto.ca> <4868D74B.70905@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi Robert's point deserves repetition: If you hope to recover this, DON'T write to it at all. Buy a new disk drive and use dd to copy the whole volume. Then play only with the copy. (If the partition in question fits in another disk you already have, then buying a new one isn't necessary.) If you don't care very much, give up now. There is a lot of work needed to do a good recovery at this point I would guess. | Thanks for encouragement. I am progressing very carefully from here. A | question, what exactly does mkfsext3 do? Does it go over all the | sectors putting down marking or does it just mess up with partition | table? What the main difference between mkfs and formatting? Onward to your question. The simplest positive step might be using the fdisk t command to set the partition type to an appropriate one for NTFS. Maybe 0x07. This does not change the contents at all. mkfsext3 writes only a small percentage of the partition. It puts superblocks a few places. It probably zeros-out inodes. I don't remember how freelists are represented (probably bitmasks) but those datastructures will be initialized. Space allocated for data blocks is probably untouched. So: the NTFS file system will have a bunch of holes punched in it. Most of the data will remain. Accessing it through the normal metadata will probably not work well. Recovery may depend on your ability to distinguish your data from junk. For some folks, something like "strings /dev/sda3" might do the job. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists