From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 1 04:23:21 2008 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:23:21 -0400 Subject: evolution: problem sending email In-Reply-To: <1214857577.8335.25.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <1214857577.8335.25.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <20080701002321.a83ae499.tleslie@tcn.net> ping the smtp server see if you get packet drops, or very poor bandwidth. I tend to think it was the smtp server, but then, if others are getting to it no problem? try another email program to aid in the detective work, should be about a 4 minute task? i experienced a freaky problem once, i could web browser, but had issue with ftp (and other stuff - probably email), turns out i had a noisy cat 5 wire hookup that suffered from certain types of traffic and not others, bizzar as hell, straightened out the cable and then fine. but yeah, just get another email program hookup to rule in or out stuff. also you could tcpdump your wire, and compare it to a sucessful one, to maybe see some useful info. -tl On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:26:17 -0400 Terrence Enger wrote: > Greetings, > > I am using Evolution 2.22.2 on Ubuntu Hardy. > > At least one of my available SMTP servers requires authentication. > (Natch!) Sometimes, Evolution prompts for my password on that server, > and the transmission succeeds. Sometimes, despite everything I can > think of trying, Evolution does not prompt for the password, and the > server reports "Relay access denied". The latter situation is more > common, to the extent that I expect to have to paste this message into a > telnet session at the command prompt. > > ( Well, I just (Monday, 14:16) succeeded once again. Holding off on > sending this. Okay, I have had a couple of hours of good usage. Now, > 16:20, its failing again.) > > Along the way, I have taken the menu option File > Forget passwords, I > have checked and unchecked the "remember password" option, I have > cancelled all Evolution jobs and restarted Evolution, and I have deleted > and reentered the mail account. My question on ubuntuforums.org has > brought no response. The debugging output suggested by > has been helpful > only to the extent of pointing my suspicions to Evolution rather than > the SMTP server. Some of the reported bugs I found sound similar to my > situation, but still a bit different. > > Sigh! I would appreciate any suggestions about what I can do or what I > should read. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 1 10:04:29 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 13:04:29 +0300 Subject: Recovery procedures of NTFS filesystem In-Reply-To: References: <4868C703.4010802@utoronto.ca> <4868D74B.70905@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Hi, I do care much and I am planning to follow up with it for as long as there is progress. So, if you have any suggestion, don?t hestate to share. I have spent a substantial time reading on data recovery yesterday and will be installing another 250GB before I can start using recovery tools. I have the impression that foremost is the best way to go. I will report back on progress. Regards, William > If you don't care very much, give up now. There is a lot of work > needed to do a good recovery at this point I would guess. > > | Thanks for encouragement. I am progressing very carefully from here. A > | question, what exactly does mkfsext3 do? Does it go over all the > | sectors putting down marking or does it just mess up with partition > | table? What the main difference between mkfs and formatting? > > Onward to your question. > > The simplest positive step might be using the fdisk t command to set > the partition type to an appropriate one for NTFS. Maybe 0x07. > This does not change the contents at all. > > mkfsext3 writes only a small percentage of the partition. It puts > superblocks a few places. It probably zeros-out inodes. I don't > remember how freelists are represented (probably bitmasks) but those > datastructures will be initialized. Space allocated for data blocks > is probably untouched. > > So: the NTFS file system will have a bunch of holes punched in it. > Most of the data will remain. Accessing it through the normal metadata > will probably not work well. > > Recovery may depend on your ability to distinguish your data from > junk. For some folks, something like "strings /dev/sda3" might do the > job. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 1 13:34:57 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:34:57 -0400 Subject: evolution: problem sending email In-Reply-To: <20080701002321.a83ae499.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <1214857577.8335.25.camel@jaguar-hardy> <20080701002321.a83ae499.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <1214919297.9918.4.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 00:23 -0400, ted leslie wrote: ping the smtp server see if you get packet drops, or very poor bandwidth. > > I tend to think it was the smtp server, but then, if others are getting to it no problem? That was my first guess, too. Sent email to my ISP and waited for response. Phoned customer support, and waited the 48 hours that they requested for a fix (still waiting on that one). Silly me. > > try another email program to aid in the detective work, should be about a 4 minute task? Hmm, would you believe `telnet` plus a copy of RFC 2821? It took me more than 4 minutes, I must admit. >From the command line, everything works. (Well, subject to the confusion that torfree.net, which does not require authorization, accepts mail to my account there but not to my account elsewhere.) > > i experienced a freaky problem once, > i could web browser, but had issue with ftp (and other stuff - probably email), > turns out i had a noisy cat 5 wire hookup > that suffered from certain types of traffic and not others, bizzar as hell, > straightened out the cable and then fine. > > but yeah, just get another email program hookup to rule in or out stuff. > also you could tcpdump your wire, and compare it to a sucessful one, > to maybe see some useful info. I have learned how to make Evolution produce a log of its SMTP commands. Just now, I went looking for examples to copy in here, and I find--for my preferred outbound server--that all my successful examples are to one address and that I have not collected any failed examples. So, having turned on Evolution logging, I shall break off now and try to send this. I am not sure whether to hope it works or fails. Thank you, Ted. You have given me another path to check out. > > > > -tl > > > On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:26:17 -0400 > Terrence Enger wrote: > > > Greetings, > > > > I am using Evolution 2.22.2 on Ubuntu Hardy. > > > > At least one of my available SMTP servers requires authentication. > > (Natch!) Sometimes, Evolution prompts for my password on that server, > > and the transmission succeeds. Sometimes, despite everything I can > > think of trying, Evolution does not prompt for the password, and the > > server reports "Relay access denied". The latter situation is more > > common, to the extent that I expect to have to paste this message into a > > telnet session at the command prompt. > > > > ( Well, I just (Monday, 14:16) succeeded once again. Holding off on > > sending this. Okay, I have had a couple of hours of good usage. Now, > > 16:20, its failing again.) > > > > Along the way, I have taken the menu option File > Forget passwords, I > > have checked and unchecked the "remember password" option, I have > > cancelled all Evolution jobs and restarted Evolution, and I have deleted > > and reentered the mail account. My question on ubuntuforums.org has > > brought no response. The debugging output suggested by > > has been helpful > > only to the extent of pointing my suspicions to Evolution rather than > > the SMTP server. Some of the reported bugs I found sound similar to my > > situation, but still a bit different. > > > > Sigh! I would appreciate any suggestions about what I can do or what I > > should read. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 1 13:52:58 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:52:58 -0400 Subject: Recovery procedures of NTFS filesystem In-Reply-To: References: <4868C703.4010802@utoronto.ca> <4868D74B.70905@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1214920378.8796.25.camel@leon> On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 13:04 +0300, William Muriithi wrote: > Hi, > > I do care much and I am planning to follow up with it for as long as > there is progress. So, if you have any suggestion, don?t hestate to > share. I have spent a substantial time reading on data recovery > yesterday and will be installing another 250GB before I can start > using recovery tools. I have the impression that foremost is the best > way to go. I will report back on progress. William, Good luck with the recovery. I do not envy you the task. I saw a presentation in New Hampshire a few years ago that may help you. http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.gnhlug/6779 The presenter was one of a team that won the 2006 forensic file carving challenge. The competition required automated recovery of files from a "damaged" file system in an iso; a situation similar to yours. The presenter, Andy Bair, would be a great visiting speaker. Good luck. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 1 14:06:02 2008 From: rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 10:06:02 -0400 Subject: A reminder - Damian Conway to speak in Toronto Wednesday July 16th (evening); talk and venue details here Message-ID: <5bef4baf0807010706r2545c00drbb1813bc9ddb3b4e@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, We're getting close to the event, so here's a reminder - The evening of Wed 16 July 2008, Damian Conway, Perl expert extraordinaire, Open Source luminary, and long-time friend of the Toronto Perl Mongers, will deliver -- free and to the public -- one of his signature tour-de-force completely insane talks that is 1/3 high-end IT, 1/3 showmanship and 1/3 peyote-fuelled hallucination. Here are the details: Talk: "Temporally Quaquaversal Virtual Nanomachine Programming in Multiple Topologically Connected Quantum-Relativistic Parallel Timespaces... Made Easy" This will be the world premiere of the talk. Date: Wednesday 16 July 2008 Time: 6:30pm - 9pm Location: Bahen Centre for Information Technology, University of Toronto 40 St. George Street (w. side of street, just north of College Ave. Room # BA 1160 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=+40+St.+George+Street,+Toronto&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=37.052328,95.009766&ie=UTF8&ll=43.659986,-79.396745&spn=0.004137,0.011598&z=17&iwloc=addr As I have done the past 4 times Damian has come to Toronto to give talks I will take up a collection. This is to help defray expenses and to provide Damian with an honorarium for the talk. Donations are completely voluntary. If you feel motivated and/or in the right place financially to make a donation please get in touch with me or visit the Paypal links at http://hew.ca/. The Toronto Perl Mongers and the other groups who have attended Damian's talks have always been incredibly generous in supporting Damian whenever he has visited in the past and both he and I thank everyone for all the support he has received over the years. FWIW, I have Facebook and Upcoming events for this set up now too -- http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=22670172852&ref=mf and http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/818803/ Cheers, - Richard PS For those of you who don't know Damian, here is some background info on him. He's _not_ just a Perl hacker. If you're into IT in any way, shape or form prepare to have your mind blown... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damian_Conway http://damian.conway.org/About_us//Bio_formal.html http://www.googlism.com/index.htm?ism=damian+conway&type=1 -- I like the "... is my personal savior" one http://en.oreilly.com/oscon2008/public/schedule/speaker/4710 -- we are getting his OSCON 2008 keynote delivered here first! http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail880.html -- to hear one of his previous OSCON keynote talks (although this talk, as is the case with all his talks, is really enhanced by the slideshow that goes along with it) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 1 15:12:50 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 15:12:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Recovery procedures of NTFS filesystem In-Reply-To: References: <4868C703.4010802@utoronto.ca> <4868D74B.70905@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Jun 2008, William Muriithi wrote: > question, what exactly does mkfsext3 do? Does it go over all the > sectors putting down marking or does it just mess up with partition Morning. D. Hugh covered this well. By default the mkfs doesn't do alot but it does write some blocks. There are options which cause it to do a lot more but they are rarely used. > table? What the main difference between mkfs and formatting? Off the topic of your problem but I'll cover this a little. In Unix land the term "formatting" originally meant to prepare the disk to receive a filesystem. Making the filesystem was a different process. Microsoft used the term format to refer to making the filesystem. The MS usage of format has crept into *nix land to the point where the Debian installer now asks if you would like to format the partition (eek). It should ask if you would like to make a filesystem :) Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 1 22:38:45 2008 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:38:45 -0400 Subject: How can this be prevented .. i.e. pidgin just kicked the shit out of ubuntu good name today (and other distro's?) Message-ID: <20080701183845.d7489017.tleslie@tcn.net> Like many ten of thousands today (or more), i awoke to a totally screwed pidgin on my fiesty the issue is, some not so bright person(s) at pidgin decided to halt any use of pidgin unless you are using the latest version .... not even that now, the latest version with a patch needed? the pidgin web site is massively over loaded.....appears down to many (see ubuntu forms) so 45 minutes later i get my pidgin working again, and reconnected, which is vital to my work. the patch seems to just trick the version number. I am just thinking, how can a linux distro take steps to avoid this type of ass kicking, yet not offend freedom? Not sure if it was something somewhat out of pidgin's control (i.e. ICQ protocol update?), but it seems like there needs to be a better way to handle this stuff, be interesting to see how long it take ubuntu to come out with a straight forward fix for noobs. -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 1 23:17:02 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 19:17:02 -0400 Subject: Are there linux drivers for Canon digicams? In-Reply-To: <87myl548wv.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080627223821.tn8r8dvhpwco08g4@mail.math.yorku.ca> <87r6aif028.fsf@azurservers.com> <20080628151210.kpncpjasgkcc4s04@mail.math.yorku.ca> <87myl548wv.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807011617t7eba49eck7fe6dfc18e17f8e5@mail.gmail.com> I believe that this is similar to the model my grandparents had, which I got to work using software such as digikam. Unfortunately the permissions are tricky and a bit of a pain in the butt, try running it as root if it otherwise detect the device. You'll also want to make sure you have libgphoto2 installed, since most linux camera software seems to depend on that. On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Slackrat wrote: > Mike Oliver a ?crit profondement: > > | Thanks for the effort. Unfortunately when I turn it on > | and hook up the USB cable, "blkid" shows no new block > | devices at all. > > That really is too bad. > > With the Pentax I get: > > bash-3.1# blkid > /dev/hda1: UUID="3233ece9-86ee-4441-97bb-98b02788fe09" TYPE="reiserfs" > /dev/hda2: UUID="7a384f4e-a1c5-42b9-813b-740757ca724a" TYPE="reiserfs" > /dev/hda3: UUID="3fa684d5-def3-4e7c-88dd-21a477e2a138" TYPE="reiserfs" > /dev/hda5: UUID="b9120d7e-c90e-4f3c-a76b-81b31308866b" TYPE="reiserfs" > /dev/hda6: UUID="d3f9c51f-9e16-4c44-bcd3-6d9e7dd0ae63" TYPE="reiserfs" > /dev/hda7: TYPE="swap" UUID="d0e476ca-1af9-4ef9-891d-8362d67a0a71" > /dev/hdc: TYPE="iso9660" > /dev/sda1: UUID="0000-0000" SEC_TYPE="msdos" TYPE="vfat" > bash-3.1# > bash-3.1# > bash-3.1# mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/usbflash > bash-3.1# > bash-3.1# > bash-3.1# mount > /dev/hda1 on / type reiserfs (rw) > proc on /proc type proc (rw) > /dev/hda2 on /mnt/hda2 type reiserfs (rw,nosuid,nodev) > /dev/hda3 on /mnt/hda3 type reiserfs (rw,nosuid,nodev) > /dev/hda5 on /mnt/hda5 type reiserfs (rw,nosuid,nodev) > /dev/hda6 on /mnt/hda6 type reiserfs (rw,nosuid,nodev) > devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,gid=5,mode=620) > usbfs on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw) > /dev/sda1 on /mnt/usbflash type vfat (rw) > bash-3.1# > bash-3.1# > bash-3.1# lsusb > Bus 003 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 > Bus 002 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 > Bus 002 Device 002: ID 046d:c50e Logitech, Inc. MX-1000 Cordless Mouse Receiver > Bus 002 Device 003: ID 0a17:0097 Pentax Corp. > Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 > bash-3.1# > bash-3.1# > bash-3.1# ls /mnt/usbflash/dcim/100_0621/* > /mnt/usbflash/dcim/100_0621/imgp0505.jpg > bash-3.1# > > The Cyberpix works more or less the same but with no subdirs off "dcim" > > -- > SlackRat > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 2 02:43:39 2008 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 22:43:39 -0400 Subject: Are there linux drivers for Canon digicams? In-Reply-To: <20080627223821.tn8r8dvhpwco08g4-eRF/mgt17vYuqM34mc2EBrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <20080627223821.tn8r8dvhpwco08g4@mail.math.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <200807012243.39505.dbmacg@look.ca> Using Digikam, I happily use a Canon Powreshot A610 and have done so for years. I also have a Canon 400D that works just fine. I also used an HP 318 with no problems. Just plug the camera in; Linux sees it and asks if you want to load Digikam for it. Piece of cake. If you don't want to do that connect the SD card up to Linux through a reader and treat the SD card as a file system. As with other hotplugged USB devices, you must wait a few seconds for Linux to see it. Duncan On Friday 27 June 2008 22:38:21 Mike Oliver wrote: > specifically the PowerShot A580. Haven't turned > up anything useful on Google or LinuxHardware.org > but for Google I might just not know how to filter > out the useless stuff. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Duncan MacGregor --- Toronto --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 2 18:36:55 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 14:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MLPPP twarts Bell throttling? Message-ID: According to the first DSLreports forum entry on this thread, ML PPP avoids Bell throttling. Has anyone tried this? Do the traditional Linux PPPoE stacks support ML PPP? Do your ISPs support it? Intriguing, but I have not done any investigation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 2 18:51:44 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 14:51:44 -0400 Subject: MLPPP twarts Bell throttling? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <486BCE40.5060009@utoronto.ca> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > According to the first DSLreports forum entry on this thread, ML PPP > avoids Bell throttling. > > Has anyone tried this? Do the traditional Linux PPPoE stacks support ML > PPP? Do your ISPs support it? > > Intriguing, but I have not done any investigation. I should not have to have 2 DSL lines to get the (un-throttled) service to which I am accustomed and that TekSavvy (my ISP) predicate selling their service upon. While technically interesting, that people have resorted to such measures, even as an academic exercise, is the disturbing part. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 2 19:14:10 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:14:10 -0400 Subject: MLPPP twarts Bell throttling? In-Reply-To: <486BCE40.5060009-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <486BCE40.5060009@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 7/2/08, Jamon Camisso wrote: > D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> According to the first DSLreports forum entry on this thread, ML PPP >> avoids Bell throttling. >> >> Has anyone tried this? Do the traditional Linux PPPoE stacks support ML >> PPP? Do your ISPs support it? >> >> Intriguing, but I have not done any investigation. > > I should not have to have 2 DSL lines to get the (un-throttled) service > to which I am accustomed and that TekSavvy (my ISP) predicate selling > their service upon. > > While technically interesting, that people have resorted to such > measures, even as an academic exercise, is the disturbing part. > > Jamon Dave Gilbert is one of the regulars at the Unix Unanimous meetings and is involved with a tiny local ISP. A product that Dave's ISP offers is router that sends all packets out via two routes (normally cable and DSL). The idea being that good software will throw away the 2nd packet to arrive. This has two big advantages, if one connection goes down the end user basicly doesn't notice and it stomps on the packet filtering currently used by Bell/Rogers. The bad news being, talk about a waste of badwidth, and the cost of two high speed connections... Still, Dave's ISP I would gather had a steady, if modest market for the special router, all to people who had to have an always up Internet connection (the odds of both DSL and cable being down at the same time, while non-zero is exceptionally low). Not sure how much of a help the current packet shaping nonsense is to his firm, but it can not hurt... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 2 19:44:08 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:44:08 -0400 Subject: Not quite current CPU sources Message-ID: I am looking for a Socket A (aka: Socket 462) AMD CPU chip / heat-sink /fan (i.e.: Athlon XP chips)... Who in the city sells these not-quite current CPU chips? Bit of background, last month I bought an ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS (with an appropriate AM2 CPU / memory / etc), which was shipped defective as far as I was concerned, the MAC address for the built in network port was b5:52:17:C6:1f:00 (for those who don't know why this is defective, look up multicast MAC addresses). This meant this motherboard was TOTALLY useless for the one reason I got this motherboard (a diskless front end box for my MythTV system). I have grumbled loudly at ASUS, got an RMA number, and as I write the motherboard is in transit to ASUS to get fixed. In the mean time I want a diskless box ASAP, and I am in no mood to spend anything more than pocket change to get said box running (spending bucks to ship a defective motherboard has left me feeling a bit grumpy). I have gotten a used (and long story, but free) motherboard that uses Socket A (aka: Socket 462) CPUs. I hope, but have not tested, the motherboard, so I hope works. My goal is to have the client up and running by the end of this weekend. This way I will have something until ASUS repairs their motherboard... So, back to the start point, suggestions as to who would have Socket A (aka: Socket 462) CPUs for dirt cheap? Thanks. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 2 23:37:08 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 02:37:08 +0300 Subject: Permissions for hal mounted drives Message-ID: Hi, When one insert a portable drive on a system running Redhat distributions, its automatically mounted by I think HAL. I have checked automount configurations and certain its not automount that is running this process. The problem is, no one can write to a drive mounted in this way other than root. Which file can one edit to fix this behaviour. I would like to change it so that other users can be able to save their work without necessarily needing to start their application as root. I have attempted changing the rights of /media directory, but it resort to its defaults permission when it mount a drive. google search had little of a solution, just a lot of article of other users who had the same problem. Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 3 00:44:48 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:44:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Permissions for hal mounted drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: William Muriithi | When one insert a portable drive on a system running Redhat | distributions, Different versions do different things. You might want to be more specific. | its automatically mounted by I think HAL. I have | checked automount configurations and certain its not automount that is | running this process. The problem is, no one can write to a drive | mounted in this way other than root. I just tried (on Fedora 9) with two devices: - USB flash drive with two HFS+ (Mac) filesystems. /dev/sdh2 on /media/Patchstick type hfsplus (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=hal) /dev/sdh1 on /media/Patchstick-root type hfsplus (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=hal) + the FS roots were owned by root drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 15 2008-02-15 13:13 Patchstick drwxr-xr-x 1 root root 22 2007-04-18 02:57 Patchstick-root + nobody.nobody seemed to own files under root. Probably that's really what the HFS+ filesystem said (dunno) $ ls -l /media/Patchstick drwxr-xr-x 1 nobody nobody 4 2007-04-17 18:42 installer.d drwxr-xr-x 1 nobody nobody 4 2008-02-15 14:21 perian drwxr-xr-x 1 nobody nobody 13 2008-02-15 14:30 ssh - USB flash memory (MP3 player) with one VFAT filesystem: /dev/sdh1 on /media/SAMSONG2 type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=hal,shortname=lower,uid=104) + the root is still owned by hugh.root (with an odd date): drwxr-xr-x 5 hugh root 16384 1969-12-31 19:00 /media/SAMSONG2 + the things under the root are owned by hugh.root too. Remember that VFAT has no owner and group representation so those values are filled in from a arguments to mount. $ ls -l /media/SAMSONG2 total 2784 drwxr-xr-x 2 hugh root 16384 2008-05-29 17:06 cbc -rwxr-xr-x 1 hugh root 2801353 2007-07-28 02:37 p1050043.jpg drwxr-xr-x 2 hugh root 16384 2002-12-27 17:44 system drwxr-xr-x 2 hugh root 16384 2002-12-27 17:44 voice Anyway, this whole area is surprisingly opaque to a long-time UNIX user. The lack of man pages is icing on the cake. Maybe this has some hints: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/FastUserSwitching -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 3 00:48:05 2008 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:48:05 -0400 Subject: Not quite current CPU sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080702204805.be03b089.tleslie@tcn.net> you can change the MAC address you know. Atleast on 3Com i have. I think on most you can. give it a go, issue the ifconfig hw
command and away you go. -tl On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:44:08 -0400 "Colin McGregor" wrote: > I am looking for a Socket A (aka: Socket 462) AMD CPU chip / heat-sink > /fan (i.e.: Athlon XP chips)... Who in the city sells these not-quite > current CPU chips? > > Bit of background, last month I bought an ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS (with an > appropriate AM2 CPU / memory / etc), which was shipped defective as > far as I was concerned, the MAC address for the built in network port > was b5:52:17:C6:1f:00 (for those who don't know why this is defective, > look up multicast MAC addresses). This meant this motherboard was > TOTALLY useless for the one reason I got this motherboard (a diskless > front end box for my MythTV system). I have grumbled loudly at ASUS, > got an RMA number, and as I write the motherboard is in transit to > ASUS to get fixed. > > In the mean time I want a diskless box ASAP, and I am in no mood to > spend anything more than pocket change to get said box running > (spending bucks to ship a defective motherboard has left me feeling a > bit grumpy). I have gotten a used (and long story, but free) > motherboard that uses Socket A (aka: Socket 462) CPUs. I hope, but > have not tested, the motherboard, so I hope works. My goal is to have > the client up and running by the end of this weekend. This way I will > have something until ASUS repairs their motherboard... > > So, back to the start point, suggestions as to who would have Socket A > (aka: Socket 462) CPUs for dirt cheap? > > Thanks. > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 3 00:48:44 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MLPPP twarts Bell throttling? In-Reply-To: <486BCE40.5060009-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <486BCE40.5060009@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: | From: Jamon Camisso | D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: | > According to the first DSLreports forum entry on this thread, ML PPP avoids | > Bell throttling. | I should not have to have 2 DSL lines to get the (un-throttled) service to | which I am accustomed If you read the forum messages, you will see that the claim is that this works even with only one connection. | While technically interesting, that people have resorted to such measures, | even as an academic exercise, is the disturbing part. I think that the disturbing part is that Bell (and Rogers) are currently getting away with this. I am amused by work-arounds, but don't consider them anything but a short-term expedient. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlow-AZu5J0u3PMt/LtIqEKMDMfN90d+awN/n at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 2 20:23:26 2008 From: tlow-AZu5J0u3PMt/LtIqEKMDMfN90d+awN/n at public.gmane.org (Tom Low-Shang) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:23:26 -0400 Subject: MLPPP twarts Bell throttling? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080702202326.GA2875@low-shang.homelinux.com> On Wed, Jul 02, 2008 at 02:36:55PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > According to the first DSLreports forum entry on this thread, ML PPP > avoids Bell throttling. > > Has anyone tried this? Do the traditional Linux PPPoE stacks support ML > PPP? Do your ISPs support it? > > Intriguing, but I have not done any investigation. MLPPP does work but I'm only using it on a single link, so it will be easy for the throttling boxes to defeat. MLPPP just moves the data a few bytes. Actually using multiple links will make it harder to defeat according to some opinions. I'm using it on a stock Debian system with texsavvy.com I agree with Jamon that we should not have to resort these measures. -- Tom Low-Shang JID tlow-/eSpBmjxGS4dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 3 00:54:18 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Not quite current CPU sources In-Reply-To: <20080702204805.be03b089.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <20080702204805.be03b089.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: | From: ted leslie | you can change the MAC address you know. Atleast on 3Com i have. | I think on most you can. Generally there is nowhere to put the configuring instructions early enough in a diskless system boot. The MAC address of an integrated interface might live in some place that can be flashed. That would make sense to me -- it would reduce the parts count. But ASUS support might not know that. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 3 01:28:44 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:44 -0400 Subject: Permissions for hal mounted drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7ac602420807021828k79318370x1dd1fb31104810e5@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 7:37 PM, William Muriithi wrote: > When one insert a portable drive on a system running Redhat > distributions, its automatically mounted by I think HAL. I have > checked automount configurations and certain its not automount that is > running this process. The problem is, no one can write to a drive > mounted in this way other than root. I think the programme that actually does the mounting is called pmount. It might be HAL that invokes it, but I think pmount does the work. Maybe man pmount? Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 3 01:38:14 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:38:14 -0400 Subject: Not quite current CPU sources In-Reply-To: References: <20080702204805.be03b089.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: On 7/2/08, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: ted leslie > > | you can change the MAC address you know. Atleast on 3Com i have. > | I think on most you can. > > Generally there is nowhere to put the configuring instructions early > enough in a diskless system boot. Exactly. The "easy" solution would of course be to stick a small HD or flash memory device on the system, but why should I have to jump through those sorts of hoops when the issue is a motherboard maker that sells a product that does not meet standards. Basicly, I want this system to be a small box sitting in my bedroom to act as a display controller, allowing me to see what ever videos are stored on my main livingroom MythTV server (keeping bedroom TV, knocking a few $/mo. off cable TV bill, nobody can sanely claim I have pirated a cable signal ... and it is a interesting project to do :-) ). > The MAC address of an integrated interface might live in some place > that can be flashed. That would make sense to me -- it would reduce > the parts count. But ASUS support might not know that. Very likely, but in my calls to the ASUS Linux support line (yes, ASUS does have such a thing, dig around and you can find said extension), the clerk answering the line seemed ... pleasant, but ... clueless ... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 3 04:29:51 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 00:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Permissions for hal mounted drives Message-ID: <63578.142.167.21.225.1215059391.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> William Muriithi wrote: > Hi, > > When one insert a portable drive on a system running Redhat > distributions, its automatically mounted by I think HAL. I have > checked automount configurations and certain its not automount that is > running this process. The problem is, no one can write to a drive > mounted in this way other than root. > > Which file can one edit to fix this behaviour. I would like to change > it so that other users can be able to save their work without > necessarily needing to start their application as root. I have > attempted changing the rights of /media directory, but it resort to > its defaults permission when it mount a drive. google search had > little of a solution, just a lot of article of other users who had the > same problem. > > Regards, > William Sorry, this has probably broken threading. :( *As I understand it*... HAL broadcasts changes in hardware (ie: disk being connected) using a D-Bus signal. That's it. From there, it's up to programs that are interested in storage devices messages to decide what to do. In Gnome, this is, I believe, handled by the gnome virtual file system. It may in turn call 'pmount', but that is merely a setuid wrapper to mount with some checks in it. So I don't have an exact answer for you (sorry, it's late or I would look into it), but hopefully this will help point you in the right direction. As for *why* it restricts access to you, I would suspect it is because the listener that is reacting to HAL's dbus signal is running in user-space and only can mount with your permissions, being essentially unprivileged itself. It's essentially your Gnome session mounting the drive, after all. What you could do, assuming my guesses are even close to right, is write your own DBus application that waits for mount messages and, when it gets a notice, checks the permissions and remounts the drive with more permissive restrictions given whatever conditions you care about. Again, this is a lot of guessing on my (tired) part. But I hope it might help. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 3 15:35:26 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 18:35:26 +0300 Subject: Permissions for hal mounted drives In-Reply-To: <63578.142.167.21.225.1215059391.squirrel-GqYTezIbEURL1Y7jC+g/Zg@public.gmane.org> References: <63578.142.167.21.225.1215059391.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: Hi, Redelmeier, I was using Fedora 5. I also noticed another system running centos 5 mounted the drives just like Fedora 5. This seem to have changed in Fedora 9 as the directory property you highlighted is what I am looking for. Madi, thanks for the pointers. I am going to google a bit and see what take over from HAL after drive insertion. I am however looking for the opposite characteristics to what you described. The system is a desktop, so users should be allowed access to portable drives - more like in Windows. Regards, William > *As I understand it*... HAL broadcasts changes in hardware (ie: disk being > connected) using a D-Bus signal. That's it. From there, it's up to > programs that are interested in storage devices messages to decide what to > do. In Gnome, this is, I believe, handled by the gnome virtual file > system. It may in turn call 'pmount', but that is merely a setuid wrapper > to mount with some checks in it. > > So I don't have an exact answer for you (sorry, it's late or I would look > into it), but hopefully this will help point you in the right direction. > > As for *why* it restricts access to you, I would suspect it is because the > listener that is reacting to HAL's dbus signal is running in user-space > and only can mount with your permissions, being essentially unprivileged > itself. It's essentially your Gnome session mounting the drive, after all. > > What you could do, assuming my guesses are even close to right, is write > your own DBus application that waits for mount messages and, when it gets > a notice, checks the permissions and remounts the drive with more > permissive restrictions given whatever conditions you care about. > > Again, this is a lot of guessing on my (tired) part. But I hope it might > help. > > Madi > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 3 22:17:30 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 18:17:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bell Sympatico offered me fast service Message-ID: I got a form letter from Bell that starts: Great news. Our new, next generation fibre optic Internet service is now availaible in your neighbourhood. Since ADSL in my house has been crappy and slow, I just phoned them to figure out what they meant by this. First they told me that they have fibre optic. I asked where? To my demarc, they said. Clearly this isn't true because they haven't been in my basement. I played 20 questions with Nasar on the phone, ignoring obvious mis-statements. - maybe there is fibre to a location closer than the Central Office was (the CO was about 5km, if I remember correctly, explaining my crappy service) - he told me that I could have 16000kb service (down, of course; 1mb up). That is perhaps 10x what I have now (from another ADSL provider). He agreed that it was 10 times what I would have had in the past. - he said that distance to the new CO-or-whatever was a secret and would not tell me - I asked about the modem (wondering if they have some new technology). He said yes, but was really only talking about features like being a router and switch on top of being a modem. When pressed, he said it was same old ADSL. 2wire brand. Does anyone know what this is about? Have Bell likely installed a "remote" to cut the length of the copper run? Or something else? Or, nothing (just an ad)? Oh, and what is "next generation" about this? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 3 23:03:03 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:03:03 -0400 Subject: Bell Sympatico offered me fast service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32f6a8880807031603s793b5ac1i66a347ac92160512@mail.gmail.com> Hi Hugh, I have heard of this as well, however I have not gone into extensive questions. I live in an apartment building and I got 2 dsl connections coming in. When I applied to my new provider, bell called me up and said "the line you have is different this one is a Fibre Optic line", I asked them ok install it on the condition they could keep both lines.. (i had customer service issues there :() I called my original provider they said there are problems with some providers and the new "DSL" line. The new DSL line is actually called something different. I googled a bit found a few links, here's one of them: http://en.kioskea.net/technologies/adsl.php3 On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 6:17 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I got a form letter from Bell that starts: > > Great news. Our new, next generation fibre optic Internet > service is now availaible in your neighbourhood. > > Since ADSL in my house has been crappy and slow, I just phoned them to > figure out what they meant by this. > > First they told me that they have fibre optic. I asked where? To my > demarc, they said. Clearly this isn't true because they haven't been in > my basement. > > I played 20 questions with Nasar on the phone, ignoring obvious > mis-statements. > > - maybe there is fibre to a location closer than the Central Office > was (the CO was about 5km, if I remember correctly, explaining > my crappy service) > > - he told me that I could have 16000kb service (down, of course; 1mb > up). That is perhaps 10x what I have now (from another ADSL > provider). He agreed that it was 10 times what I would have had in > the past. > > - he said that distance to the new CO-or-whatever was a secret and > would not tell me > > - I asked about the modem (wondering if they have some new > technology). He said yes, but was really only talking about > features like being a router and switch on top of being a modem. > When pressed, he said it was same old ADSL. 2wire brand. > > Does anyone know what this is about? Have Bell likely installed a > "remote" to cut the length of the copper run? Or something else? Or, > nothing (just an ad)? > > Oh, and what is "next generation" about this? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 3 23:05:07 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:05:07 -0400 Subject: Bell Sympatico offered me fast service In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880807031603s793b5ac1i66a347ac92160512-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880807031603s793b5ac1i66a347ac92160512@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880807031605j3bb1a2fwd06543b65d164f92@mail.gmail.com> Hugh, If I remember correctly I think what the new one might be VDSL (However I could be wrong) On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hi Hugh, > > I have heard of this as well, however I have not gone into extensive > questions. I live in an apartment building and I got 2 dsl > connections coming in. > > When I applied to my new provider, bell called me up and said "the > line you have is different this one is a Fibre Optic line", I asked > them ok install it on the condition they could keep both lines.. (i > had customer service issues there :() > > I called my original provider they said there are problems with some > providers and the new "DSL" line. The new DSL line is actually called > something different. > > I googled a bit found a few links, here's one of them: > > http://en.kioskea.net/technologies/adsl.php3 > > > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 6:17 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> I got a form letter from Bell that starts: >> >> Great news. Our new, next generation fibre optic Internet >> service is now availaible in your neighbourhood. >> >> Since ADSL in my house has been crappy and slow, I just phoned them to >> figure out what they meant by this. >> >> First they told me that they have fibre optic. I asked where? To my >> demarc, they said. Clearly this isn't true because they haven't been in >> my basement. >> >> I played 20 questions with Nasar on the phone, ignoring obvious >> mis-statements. >> >> - maybe there is fibre to a location closer than the Central Office >> was (the CO was about 5km, if I remember correctly, explaining >> my crappy service) >> >> - he told me that I could have 16000kb service (down, of course; 1mb >> up). That is perhaps 10x what I have now (from another ADSL >> provider). He agreed that it was 10 times what I would have had in >> the past. >> >> - he said that distance to the new CO-or-whatever was a secret and >> would not tell me >> >> - I asked about the modem (wondering if they have some new >> technology). He said yes, but was really only talking about >> features like being a router and switch on top of being a modem. >> When pressed, he said it was same old ADSL. 2wire brand. >> >> Does anyone know what this is about? Have Bell likely installed a >> "remote" to cut the length of the copper run? Or something else? Or, >> nothing (just an ad)? >> >> Oh, and what is "next generation" about this? >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > > > > The man who is always a newbie at something, > Dave Germiquet > > Everytime I learn something new, > I realize I know very little. > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psmerdon-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 3 23:27:47 2008 From: psmerdon-J4oS66wZXds at public.gmane.org (Peter Smerdon) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:27:47 -0400 Subject: openmoko phone now available, but can we use it in Canada? Message-ID: <87y74iwnt8.fsf@magma.ca> according to their site, the linux based openmoko phone is now shipping. http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner This phone at first glance is quite intriguing, * Hardware Highlights o Wi-Fi (802.1 1b/g) o AGPS o GPRS (2.5G not EDGE) o Bluetooth 2.0 o 3axis Motion Sensors (2) * Software Highlights o Openmoko GNU/Linux-based o 100% FOSS on CPU o GNU/Linux development tools Rogers/fido do GSM, but can one just walk into a rogers shop with one of these and pucrchase a plan for it? -- Peter. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 4 00:20:27 2008 From: overholt-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andrew Overholt) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 20:20:27 -0400 Subject: Bell Sympatico offered me fast service In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880807031603s793b5ac1i66a347ac92160512-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880807031603s793b5ac1i66a347ac92160512@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080704002027.GA23969@redhat.com> This is Bell Optimax, right? A friend of mine tried to order it a while ago but the customer service rep. didn't know anything about it. It's not actually fibre to the premises and it's pretty expensive IIRC ($70 and $100?) Andrew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 4 00:49:35 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 20:49:35 -0400 Subject: Bell Sympatico offered me fast service In-Reply-To: <20080704002027.GA23969-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880807031603s793b5ac1i66a347ac92160512@mail.gmail.com> <20080704002027.GA23969@redhat.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880807031749i20c553ceked0906983c1c6489@mail.gmail.com> Hi, No, from what I understand its just a different output they installed. Maybe you can use it for both regular DSL and optimax though. I don't really notice a difference between the two outputs. On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:20 PM, Andrew Overholt wrote: > This is Bell Optimax, right? A friend of mine tried to order it a while > ago but the customer service rep. didn't know anything about it. It's > not actually fibre to the premises and it's pretty expensive IIRC ($70 > and $100?) > > Andrew > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 4 03:26:12 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bell Sympatico offered me fast service In-Reply-To: <20080704002027.GA23969-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <32f6a8880807031603s793b5ac1i66a347ac92160512@mail.gmail.com> <20080704002027.GA23969@redhat.com> Message-ID: | From: Andrew Overholt | This is Bell Optimax, right? A friend of mine tried to order it a while | ago but the customer service rep. didn't know anything about it. It's | not actually fibre to the premises and it's pretty expensive IIRC ($70 | and $100?) Damned if I know. This page lets me type in my phone number and then shows offered services: http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpInt_NewAccess.page?userType=NEW Quite confusing. The fast one is called "Total Internet Max", speed is "up to 16Mbps", and costs $87.95/month. Th next one down is "Total Internet Performance", speed is "up to 7Mbps", and costs "$47.95/month. I'm guessing TIM is ADSL2+. See http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20051247-7meg-adsl2-fiber-sympatico-question-very-important and that TIP is their common garden variety ADSL. If they have RDSLAMs (Remote DSLAMs) for TIM service, I would hope that they would use them for TIP as well if the TIP service is constrained by distance to Central Office to be below the specs. I would further hope that this would apply for lines provided to other ISPs. But who knows. I see that the mail I've got refers to "Total Internet Performance service" "from $42.95/month". The very hard to read fine-print footnote says that this requires a 2 year contract. (Of course how can they be below specs if they say "up to" in the first place.) In any case, the wording certainly suggests that this plan includes "new, next-generation fibre optic network". What a piece of marketing crap. Too bad they are unwilling to explain their offerings in technical terms. And in simple, non-slimy wording. The part of the letter they want me to read is 9" long; the part they don't want me to read is 3/4" long AND HAS MORE WORDS, all jammed together with no paragraph breaks. The footnotes don't even start at the margin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 4 03:33:50 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:33:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ADSL2+ Message-ID: According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADSL2%2B ADSL2+ doubles downstream bandwidth (up to 24Mb/s) but seems to leave upstream at about 1Mb/s. So we are further pushed from net citizen to net consumer. Bad for society, in my mind. Apparently one point for Bell's upgrade is to make TV over ADSL2+ more practical. At least that has a slight potential for the good: more duopoly replacing monopoly. The Wikipedia entry says about Bell Sympatico that ADSL2+ will expand to most of the DSL service area this year. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 4 04:31:22 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:31:22 -0400 Subject: postfix and rogers authentication Message-ID: <1215145882.12709.54.camel@localhost> hi folks, just back in town after a year away (yay!). got home & tried to send some email from my even-more-evil-than-before rogers broadband connection. my old postfix settings (a relayhost in /etc/postfix/main.cf, a login/password combination in /etc/postfix/sasl_passwd) no longer let me send email out via rogers. when i ran into the problem i searched and found this link on a rogers website: http://www.rogershelp.com/yahoo/article.php?id=10H-F i followed the directions there, which allows you to send mail from a non-rogers account if yu painstakingly enter each email address you want to use (INCREDIBLY annoying). anyway, that enabled me to send mail out with evolution using the smtp server directly. however, i want to be able to send mail directly via sendmail -- in my case, on my ubuntu hardy machines, that means postfix. right now, i'm getting this set of errors in mail.log: -------[snip]------------- > Jul 3 23:29:07 gont postfix/master[10232]: terminating on signal 15 > Jul 3 23:29:07 gont postfix/master[10419]: daemon started -- version 2.5.1, configuration /etc/postfix > Jul 3 23:29:07 gont postfix/qmgr[10424]: 5C73E1201D8: from=, size=746, nrcpt=1 (queue active) > Jul 3 23:29:07 gont postfix/qmgr[10424]: 6E8661201D4: from=, size=4479, nrcpt=1 (queue active) > Jul 3 23:29:07 gont postfix/qmgr[10424]: 058DD1201C9: from=, size=746, nrcpt=1 (queue active) > Jul 3 23:29:07 gont postfix/qmgr[10424]: B41FF1201CB: from=, size=4465, nrcpt=1 (queue active) > Jul 3 23:29:07 gont postfix/qmgr[10424]: 916271201DC: from=, size=1067, nrcpt=1 (queue active) > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10426]: warning: valid_hostname: empty hostname > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10426]: warning: malformed domain name in resource data of MX record for ssmtp.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com: > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10427]: warning: valid_hostname: empty hostname > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10427]: warning: malformed domain name in resource data of MX record for ssmtp.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com: > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10428]: warning: valid_hostname: empty hostname > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10428]: warning: malformed domain name in resource data of MX record for ssmtp.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com: > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10430]: warning: valid_hostname: empty hostname > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10430]: warning: malformed domain name in resource data of MX record for ssmtp.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com: > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10429]: warning: valid_hostname: empty hostname > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10429]: warning: malformed domain name in resource data of MX record for ssmtp.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com: > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10426]: warning: valid_hostname: empty hostname > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10426]: warning: malformed domain name in resource data of MX record for smtp-rog.mail.yahoo.com: > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10426]: warning: relayhost configuration problem > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10427]: warning: valid_hostname: empty hostname > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10427]: warning: malformed domain name in resource data of MX record for smtp-rog.mail.yahoo.com: > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10427]: warning: relayhost configuration problem > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10428]: warning: valid_hostname: empty hostname > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10428]: warning: malformed domain name in resource data of MX record for smtp-rog.mail.yahoo.com: > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10428]: warning: relayhost configuration problem > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10426]: 5C73E1201D8: to=, orig_to=, relay=none, delay=35266, delays=35265/0.31/0.27/0, dsn=4.3.5, status=deferred (Name service error for name=smtp-rog.mail.yahoo.com type=MX: Malformed or unexpected name server reply) > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10427]: 6E8661201D4: to=, relay=none, delay=94362, delays=94362/0.24/0.27/0, dsn=4.3.5, status=deferred (Name service error for name=smtp-rog.mail.yahoo.com type=MX: Malformed or unexpected name server reply) > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10428]: 058DD1201C9: to=, orig_to=, relay=none, delay=138406, delays=138406/0.2/0.26/0, dsn=4.3.5, status=deferred (Name service error for name=smtp-rog.mail.yahoo.com type=MX: Malformed or unexpected name server reply) > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10429]: warning: valid_hostname: empty hostname > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10429]: warning: malformed domain name in resource data of MX record for smtp-rog.mail.yahoo.com: > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10429]: warning: relayhost configuration problem > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10430]: warning: valid_hostname: empty hostname > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10430]: warning: malformed domain name in resource data of MX record for smtp-rog.mail.yahoo.com: > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10430]: warning: relayhost configuration problem > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10430]: 916271201DC: to=, relay=none, delay=27272, delays=27271/0.2/0.37/0, dsn=4.3.5, status=deferred (Name service error for name=smtp-rog.mail.yahoo.com type=MX: Malformed or unexpected name server reply) > Jul 3 23:29:08 gont postfix/smtp[10429]: B41FF1201CB: to=, relay=none, delay=133689, delays=133688/0.2/0.38/0, dsn=4.3.5, status=deferred (Name service error for name=smtp-rog.mail.yahoo.com type=MX: Malformed or unexpected name server reply) -----------[snip]---------------------- i'm just wondering how other people manage their rogers accounts with postfix? i do know that about 2 years ago i did get help from the list setting up postfix, and that i ended up with this in /etc/postfix/main.cf: ----------- # See /usr/share/postfix/main.cf.dist for a commented, more complete version smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Debian/GNU) biff = no # appending .domain is the MUA's job. append_dot_mydomain = no # Uncomment the next line to generate "delayed mail" warnings #delay_warning_time = 4h myhostname = anarres.mercey.org alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases myorigin = /etc/mailname mydestination = localhost #rogers setup relayhost = smtp.broadband.rogers.com #authentication stuff smtp_sasl_auth_enable = yes smtp_sasl_security_options = noanonymous smtp_sasl_password_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sasl_passwd mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 mailbox_command = procmail -a "$EXTENSION" mailbox_size_limit = 0 recipient_delimiter = + inet_interfaces = loopback-only ---------------------------- this used to work, and similar setups work on just about every other isp i've dealt with. anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? thanks so much as usual!! hope to be seeing you around, matt -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 4 06:06:48 2008 From: tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slackrat) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 08:06:48 +0200 Subject: postfix and rogers authentication In-Reply-To: <1215145882.12709.54.camel@localhost> (Matt Price's message of "Fri\, 04 Jul 2008 00\:31\:22 -0400") References: <1215145882.12709.54.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <87abgy2nev.fsf@azurservers.com> Matt Price a ?crit profondement: | [snip] | this used to work, and similar setups work on just about every other isp | i've dealt with. anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? | | thanks so much as usual!! hope to be seeing you around, | | matt If all else fails, you might take a look at the services NO-IP offer. http://www.no-ip.com/services/ I used the "alternative" port when I had Wanadoo - a French Rogers mentality ISP - with no problems. I still do use the "NO-IP Plus" service even though I have a static IP now for nameservers and the other benefits they NO-IP provide. It does cost money, but in my opionion, it is well worth the cost -- SlackRat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 5 02:50:29 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:50:29 -0400 Subject: File Permissions, Apache and FTP Message-ID: <486EE175.50209@rogers.com> I have a LAMP environment at home for development and testing, and host my web sites on a host site. I have never encountered this problem in many years. I send a new php file via ftp to the web host in the manner I have always done. I had no errors locally. I get a 500 error and this was caused because the php file "was writable in group" I created a ticket and got a response that the file permissions were changed to 744. This made the error go away. I understand the pieces here but not the whole picture. Why would apache throw up a fur ball because the file was group writable? It was world readable. I confirmed that the file on my machine was group writable. But it worked fine locally. gFTP is set to "Preserve file permissions" I created the file on a windows machine connection to the Linux directory via Samba. Help clue me in. Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 6 04:07:02 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 04:07:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Bell Sympatico offered me fast service In-Reply-To: References: <32f6a8880807031603s793b5ac1i66a347ac92160512@mail.gmail.com> <20080704002027.GA23969@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > What a piece of marketing crap. Too bad they are unwilling to explain > their offerings in technical terms. And in simple, non-slimy wording. > The part of the letter they want me to read is 9" long; the part they > don't want me to read is 3/4" long AND HAS MORE WORDS, all jammed > together with no paragraph breaks. The footnotes don't even > start at the margin. When I see something like that it sets off alarm bells and I back away. On the few occassions I've ignored these alarm bells I've regretted it. Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 6 21:31:22 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 17:31:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ubuntu 8.04.1 released Message-ID: Ubuntu has issued new CDs with 8.04 + updates. They are calling it 8.04.1. It was nnounced last Thursday. This is a Good Thing because 8.04.1 had a very serious security bug. That's not the reason they are giving for the respin, but it is reason enough for me. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2008-July/000112.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 6 21:36:43 2008 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 17:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ubuntu 8.04.1 released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Jul 2008, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Ubuntu has issued new CDs with 8.04 + updates. They are calling it > 8.04.1. It was nnounced last Thursday. > > This is a Good Thing because 8.04.1 had a very serious security bug. ^^^^^^ i'm going to assume you meant 8.04 in the above. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 7 13:50:11 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 09:50:11 -0400 Subject: MLPPP twarts Bell throttling? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48721F13.4060909@alteeve.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > According to the first DSLreports forum entry on this thread, ML PPP > avoids Bell throttling. > > Has anyone tried this? Do the traditional Linux PPPoE stacks support ML > PPP? Do your ISPs support it? > > Intriguing, but I have not done any investigation. Can you provide a link? I searched the forum, but failed. Thanks! Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 7 14:15:29 2008 From: myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Myles Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 10:15:29 -0400 Subject: openmoko phone now available, but can we use it in Canada? In-Reply-To: <87y74iwnt8.fsf-J4oS66wZXds@public.gmane.org> References: <87y74iwnt8.fsf@magma.ca> Message-ID: <93ECBEDC-2BFA-42C1-8968-0AA5B891A284@monkeyinyoursoul.com> All you need is a sim card and your done. --- Myles Braithwaite myles-Ufssi81vwmMSKvlGVnxYRVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org Please consider the trees before print this email. On 3-Jul-08, at 7:27 PM, Peter Smerdon wrote: > > according to their site, the linux based openmoko phone is now > shipping. > http://us.direct.openmoko.com/products/neo-freerunner > > This phone at first glance is quite intriguing, > * Hardware Highlights > o Wi-Fi (802.1 1b/g) > o AGPS > o GPRS (2.5G not EDGE) > o Bluetooth 2.0 > o 3axis Motion Sensors (2) > > * Software Highlights > o Openmoko GNU/Linux-based > o 100% FOSS on CPU > o GNU/Linux development tools > > Rogers/fido do GSM, but can one just walk into a rogers shop with > one of > these and pucrchase a plan for it? > > -- > > Peter. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 7 17:07:18 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 13:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: MLPPP thwarts Bell throttling? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm getting sloppy in my posts these days. Sorry | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | Subject: [TLUG]: MLPPP twarts Bell throttling? That would be "thwarts". | According to the first DSLreports forum entry on this thread, ML PPP | avoids Bell throttling. I neglected to post the link to the thread! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20484600-TomatoMLPPP-released-evade-throttle-or-bond-two-DSL-lines As a bonus, here's another thread: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=594003 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 7 19:15:12 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 15:15:12 -0400 Subject: Google Shell... Message-ID: <052601c8e065$c829cb00$587d6100$@com> http://goosh.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 03:26:53 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 23:26:53 -0400 Subject: Tiny laptops: Geeks prefer Windows, housewives want Linux Message-ID: <4872DE7D.10406@telly.org> An unusual flip on conventional wisdom: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/HONSHI/20080625/153861/?P=5 - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 10:51:05 2008 From: davec-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Dave Cramer) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 06:51:05 -0400 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling Message-ID: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/07/07/tech-crtc.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 17:02:43 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:02:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: DNS problems with www.gtalug.org? Message-ID: browsing to tlug.ss.org or www.gtalug.org isn't working right now. My log shows a lot of messages every time I try: Jul 8 12:52:56 redgate named[1125]: lame server resolving 'www.gtalug.org' (in 'gtalug.org'?): 192.139.81.209#53 Firefox says: Firefox can't find the server at www.gtalug.org. "dig www.gtalug.org A +tcp +trace" says, in part: [a bunch of times:] gtalug.org. 86400 IN NS sledz.heinous.org. gtalug.org. 86400 IN NS sauerkraut.heinous.org. [once in a while, interspersed:] ;; Connection to 212.13.194.143#53(sauerkraut.heinous.org) for www.gtalug.org failed: connection refused. [Then:] dig: too many lookups -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 17:12:24 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:12:24 -0400 Subject: Recovery procedures of NTFS filesystem In-Reply-To: References: <4868C703.4010802@utoronto.ca> <4868D74B.70905@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20080708171224.GQ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 08:10:58PM +0300, William Muriithi wrote: > Thanks for encouragement. I am progressing very carefully from here. A > question, what exactly does mkfsext3 do? Does it go over all the > sectors putting down marking or does it just mess up with partition > table? What the main difference between mkfs and formatting? It writes the filesystem tables (inode tables, etc) and creates /lost+found and such. So bitmap tables, inode tables, cylinder groups and such will have been written to the disk, and hence very likely at least some of the data is trashed no matter how you try to recover it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 17:12:58 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:12:58 -0400 Subject: DNS problems with www.gtalug.org? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4873A01A.8040304@alteeve.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > browsing to tlug.ss.org or www.gtalug.org isn't working right now. > > My log shows a lot of messages every time I try: > > Jul 8 12:52:56 redgate named[1125]: lame server resolving 'www.gtalug.org' (in 'gtalug.org'?): 192.139.81.209#53 > > > Firefox says: Firefox can't find the server at www.gtalug.org. > > > "dig www.gtalug.org A +tcp +trace" says, in part: > > [a bunch of times:] > > gtalug.org. 86400 IN NS sledz.heinous.org. > gtalug.org. 86400 IN NS sauerkraut.heinous.org. > > [once in a while, interspersed:] > ;; Connection to 212.13.194.143#53(sauerkraut.heinous.org) for www.gtalug.org failed: connection refused. > > [Then:] > dig: too many lookups That's Leah's domain. I will try to catch her once I see her back online. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 17:20:37 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:20:37 -0400 Subject: Not quite current CPU sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080708172037.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 02, 2008 at 03:44:08PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I am looking for a Socket A (aka: Socket 462) AMD CPU chip / heat-sink > /fan (i.e.: Athlon XP chips)... Who in the city sells these not-quite > current CPU chips? I think I have an XP 1700 or 1800 lying around somewhere (I run a 2400XP-M in my machine now). > Bit of background, last month I bought an ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS (with an > appropriate AM2 CPU / memory / etc), which was shipped defective as > far as I was concerned, the MAC address for the built in network port > was b5:52:17:C6:1f:00 (for those who don't know why this is defective, > look up multicast MAC addresses). This meant this motherboard was > TOTALLY useless for the one reason I got this motherboard (a diskless > front end box for my MythTV system). I have grumbled loudly at ASUS, > got an RMA number, and as I write the motherboard is in transit to > ASUS to get fixed. It looks to me like the driver didn't deal with it right, It is well known that certain nvidia chips have the MAC address stored in reverse. Quite how the driver is supposed to know I am not sure, but it certainly has worked on many boards so far and should hopefully be able to work on that one too. Perhaps you just needed a newer kernel. > In the mean time I want a diskless box ASAP, and I am in no mood to > spend anything more than pocket change to get said box running > (spending bucks to ship a defective motherboard has left me feeling a > bit grumpy). I have gotten a used (and long story, but free) > motherboard that uses Socket A (aka: Socket 462) CPUs. I hope, but > have not tested, the motherboard, so I hope works. My goal is to have > the client up and running by the end of this weekend. This way I will > have something until ASUS repairs their motherboard... > > So, back to the start point, suggestions as to who would have Socket A > (aka: Socket 462) CPUs for dirt cheap? -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 17:22:51 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:22:51 -0400 Subject: Bell Sympatico offered me fast service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080708172251.GS31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 06:17:30PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I got a form letter from Bell that starts: > > Great news. Our new, next generation fibre optic Internet > service is now availaible in your neighbourhood. > > Since ADSL in my house has been crappy and slow, I just phoned them to > figure out what they meant by this. > > First they told me that they have fibre optic. I asked where? To my > demarc, they said. Clearly this isn't true because they haven't been in > my basement. > > I played 20 questions with Nasar on the phone, ignoring obvious > mis-statements. > > - maybe there is fibre to a location closer than the Central Office > was (the CO was about 5km, if I remember correctly, explaining > my crappy service) > > - he told me that I could have 16000kb service (down, of course; 1mb > up). That is perhaps 10x what I have now (from another ADSL > provider). He agreed that it was 10 times what I would have had in > the past. > > - he said that distance to the new CO-or-whatever was a secret and > would not tell me > > - I asked about the modem (wondering if they have some new > technology). He said yes, but was really only talking about > features like being a router and switch on top of being a modem. > When pressed, he said it was same old ADSL. 2wire brand. Sounds like ADSL2 service. > Does anyone know what this is about? Have Bell likely installed a > "remote" to cut the length of the copper run? Or something else? Or, > nothing (just an ad)? > > Oh, and what is "next generation" about this? Again probably ADSL2. ADSL only goes to 8Mbit max and simply can't do more. Personally I don't want sympatico service no matter what speed they promise. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 18:02:19 2008 From: tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:02:19 +0200 Subject: DNS problems with www.gtalug.org? In-Reply-To: (D. Hugh Redelmeier's message of "Tue\, 8 Jul 2008 13\:02\:43 -0400 \(EDT\)") References: Message-ID: <87k5fwcl04.fsf@azurservers.com> "D. Hugh Redelmeier" a ?crit profondement: | browsing to tlug.ss.org or www.gtalug.org isn't working right now. | | My log shows a lot of messages every time I try: | | Jul 8 12:52:56 redgate named[1125]: lame server resolving 'www.gtalug.org' (in 'gtalug.org'?): 192.139.81.209#53 | | | Firefox says: Firefox can't find the server at www.gtalug.org. | | | "dig www.gtalug.org A +tcp +trace" says, in part: | | [a bunch of times:] | | gtalug.org. 86400 IN NS sledz.heinous.org. | gtalug.org. 86400 IN NS sauerkraut.heinous.org. | | [once in a while, interspersed:] | ;; Connection to 212.13.194.143#53(sauerkraut.heinous.org) for www.gtalug.org failed: connection refused. | | [Then:] | dig: too many lookups http://www.checkdns.net/quickcheckdomainf.aspx says: DNS server sledz.heinous.org[192.139.81.209] is alive, but not authoritative for domain 'gtalug.org' and didn't return SOA DNS server sauerkraut.heinous.org[192.139.81.208] is alive, but not authoritative for domain 'gtalug.org' and didn't return SO -- Slackrat 9/11 was an Inside Job -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 18:09:08 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:09:08 -0400 Subject: Not quite current CPU sources In-Reply-To: <20080708172037.GR31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080708172037.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 7/8/08, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jul 02, 2008 at 03:44:08PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >> I am looking for a Socket A (aka: Socket 462) AMD CPU chip / heat-sink >> /fan (i.e.: Athlon XP chips)... Who in the city sells these not-quite >> current CPU chips? > > I think I have an XP 1700 or 1800 lying around somewhere (I run a > 2400XP-M in my machine now). That would be of interest. thanks. Thanks to the kindness of John McGregor (who is on this list) I got a Duron 800 and associated regular ATX motherboard. Didn't solve the original issue, fixing my microATX based MythTV box (turned out the microATX motherboard I picked-up was dead, sigh...). Still did let me get a machine fixed up for my brother. Any event this evening I will be bringing some bits and pieces to give away at TLUG... >> Bit of background, last month I bought an ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS (with an >> appropriate AM2 CPU / memory / etc), which was shipped defective as >> far as I was concerned, the MAC address for the built in network port >> was b5:52:17:C6:1f:00 (for those who don't know why this is defective, >> look up multicast MAC addresses). This meant this motherboard was >> TOTALLY useless for the one reason I got this motherboard (a diskless >> front end box for my MythTV system). I have grumbled loudly at ASUS, >> got an RMA number, and as I write the motherboard is in transit to >> ASUS to get fixed. > > It looks to me like the driver didn't deal with it right, It is well > known that certain nvidia chips have the MAC address stored in reverse. > Quite how the driver is supposed to know I am not sure, but it certainly > has worked on many boards so far and should hopefully be able to work on > that one too. Perhaps you just needed a newer kernel. The driver deals with things in a more-or-less sensible way, if it detects an invalid MAC address, it will replace that MAC address with a valid one chosen at random. This is a problem in my sort of set-up where the server needs to know what the MAC addresses of the diskless clients is going to be... >> In the mean time I want a diskless box ASAP, and I am in no mood to >> spend anything more than pocket change to get said box running >> (spending bucks to ship a defective motherboard has left me feeling a >> bit grumpy). I have gotten a used (and long story, but free) >> motherboard that uses Socket A (aka: Socket 462) CPUs. I hope, but >> have not tested, the motherboard, so I hope works. My goal is to have >> the client up and running by the end of this weekend. This way I will >> have something until ASUS repairs their motherboard... >> >> So, back to the start point, suggestions as to who would have Socket A >> (aka: Socket 462) CPUs for dirt cheap? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 18:10:13 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:10:13 -0400 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling In-Reply-To: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424-zxk95TxsVYDyHADnj0MGvQC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> Message-ID: <20080708141013.1badb051@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Dave Cramer wrote: > http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/07/07/tech-crtc.html This bit raised my eyebrows: Rogers, which also slows peer-to-peer applications, disputed claims by CAIP that such throttling affects services such as voice over internet protocol (VoIP) and virtual private networks (VPN). "This equipment, therefore, does not impact any other traffic such as VoIP, VPN and other online streaming applications because their signatures are different," wrote Ken Engelhart, senior vice-president of regulatory affairs for Rogers. "There is therefore no reason why VPN or other encrypted traffic would be affected." Anyone on Rogers network care to comment on this? -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "Are you all right?" -Leela "Ah, it's nothing a a law suit won't cure." -Bender -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 18:23:02 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:23:02 -0400 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling In-Reply-To: <20080708141013.1badb051-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> <20080708141013.1badb051@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <4873B086.1080803@rogers.com> JoeHill wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: > > This bit raised my eyebrows: > > Rogers, which also slows peer-to-peer applications, disputed claims by CAIP > that such throttling affects services such as voice over internet protocol > (VoIP) and virtual private networks (VPN). > > "This equipment, therefore, does not impact any other traffic such as VoIP, VPN > and other online streaming applications because their signatures are > different," wrote Ken Engelhart, senior vice-president of regulatory affairs > for Rogers. "There is therefore no reason why VPN or other encrypted traffic > would be affected." > > Anyone on Rogers network care to comment on this? > > When I work from home, I use VPN and get fine performance. I suspect that the upload bandwidth I have is fine for a single VPN connection, plus more. Where peer-to-peer would slow down is if many people try to download from one peer. They would quickly reach the peer's upload capacity, and then notice slow downs as more people start downloading from that same peer. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 18:32:24 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:32:24 -0400 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling In-Reply-To: <20080708141013.1badb051-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> <20080708141013.1badb051@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <4873B2B8.6070205@rogers.com> JoeHill wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: > >> http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/07/07/tech-crtc.html > > This bit raised my eyebrows: > > Rogers, which also slows peer-to-peer applications, disputed claims by CAIP > that such throttling affects services such as voice over internet protocol > (VoIP) and virtual private networks (VPN). > > "This equipment, therefore, does not impact any other traffic such as VoIP, VPN > and other online streaming applications because their signatures are > different," wrote Ken Engelhart, senior vice-president of regulatory affairs > for Rogers. "There is therefore no reason why VPN or other encrypted traffic > would be affected." > > Anyone on Rogers network care to comment on this? > I often use a VPN to reach my home network and haven't noticed any problems, though I haven't conducted any bandwidth tests. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 18:34:04 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:34:04 -0400 Subject: Not quite current CPU sources In-Reply-To: References: <20080708172037.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080708183404.GT31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 02:09:08PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > The driver deals with things in a more-or-less sensible way, if it > detects an invalid MAC address, it will replace that MAC address with > a valid one chosen at random. This is a problem in my sort of set-up > where the server needs to know what the MAC addresses of the diskless > clients is going to be... I believe the problem was that originally the MAC address was always reversed on nvidia chips, but then some board makers started making it not reversed and hence confused the kernel. I think current kernel versions (2.6.23 and higher or something like that) are supposed to try and deal with it, but I am not sure. I only have nforce2 based boards from asus and I am sure they are all reversed in the eeprom and work just fine with every kernel version. Basicly try booting with a very new kernel and see if it gets the addres right. It should. Most livecds are generally too out of date. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 14:34:34 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:34:34 +0000 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling In-Reply-To: <20080708141013.1badb051-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> <20080708141013.1badb051@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <48737AFA.8040109@utoronto.ca> JoeHill wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: > >> http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/07/07/tech-crtc.html > > This bit raised my eyebrows: > > Rogers, which also slows peer-to-peer applications, disputed claims by CAIP > that such throttling affects services such as voice over internet protocol > (VoIP) and virtual private networks (VPN). > > "This equipment, therefore, does not impact any other traffic such as VoIP, VPN > and other online streaming applications because their signatures are > different," wrote Ken Engelhart, senior vice-president of regulatory affairs > for Rogers. "There is therefore no reason why VPN or other encrypted traffic > would be affected." > > Anyone on Rogers network care to comment on this? > I'm not with Rogers, but the man is a complete tool based on that statement alone. I don't care how good Engelhart is at inductive logic, he's a dolt who, as a VP, should know to just come out with a statement of fact that yes or no, the equipment does or does not affect other encrypted traffic. Instead he resorts to words/phrases like "Therefore, because, therefore, no reason why" that all substantially undermine his credibility. A simple declarative "Our equipment filters based on x encryption signature but not y/z signatures" would have made him sound like much less of a cagey/hedging ass and left no room for speculation. Maybe he should have checked facts with the CIO and network admins before opening his mouth. Good riddance. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 18:55:38 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:55:38 -0400 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling In-Reply-To: <48737AFA.8040109-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> <20080708141013.1badb051@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <48737AFA.8040109@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > JoeHill wrote: >> >> Dave Cramer wrote: >>> >>> http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/07/07/tech-crtc.html >> >> This bit raised my eyebrows: >> >> Rogers, which also slows peer-to-peer applications, disputed claims by >> CAIP >> that such throttling affects services such as voice over internet protocol >> (VoIP) and virtual private networks (VPN). >> >> "This equipment, therefore, does not impact any other traffic such as >> VoIP, VPN >> and other online streaming applications because their signatures are >> different," wrote Ken Engelhart, senior vice-president of regulatory >> affairs >> for Rogers. "There is therefore no reason why VPN or other encrypted >> traffic >> would be affected." >> >> Anyone on Rogers network care to comment on this? >> > I am almost certain that by SSH connection is affected. We have at work a "fast" internet connection in both directions, I can download large files by using http or https from work server to home with at least 10-20 times higher speed than by using scp. SSH speed is just exactly at around 35 kBps. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 18:59:48 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:59:48 -0400 Subject: DNS problems with www.gtalug.org? In-Reply-To: <87k5fwcl04.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <87k5fwcl04.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <4873B924.2090205@alteeve.com> Slack Rat wrote: > "D. Hugh Redelmeier" a ?crit profondement: > > | browsing to tlug.ss.org or www.gtalug.org isn't working right now. > | > | My log shows a lot of messages every time I try: > | > | Jul 8 12:52:56 redgate named[1125]: lame server resolving 'www.gtalug.org' (in 'gtalug.org'?): 192.139.81.209#53 > | > | > | Firefox says: Firefox can't find the server at www.gtalug.org. > | > | > | "dig www.gtalug.org A +tcp +trace" says, in part: > | > | [a bunch of times:] > | > | gtalug.org. 86400 IN NS sledz.heinous.org. > | gtalug.org. 86400 IN NS sauerkraut.heinous.org. > | > | [once in a while, interspersed:] > | ;; Connection to 212.13.194.143#53(sauerkraut.heinous.org) for www.gtalug.org failed: connection refused. > | > | [Then:] > | dig: too many lookups > > http://www.checkdns.net/quickcheckdomainf.aspx > > says: > DNS server sledz.heinous.org[192.139.81.209] is alive, but not > authoritative for domain 'gtalug.org' and didn't return SOA > > DNS server sauerkraut.heinous.org[192.139.81.208] is alive, but not > authoritative for domain 'gtalug.org' and didn't return SO Leah is aware of the issue and knows the cause, give her a few and she'll have it fixed. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 20:42:38 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:42:38 -0400 Subject: DNS problems with www.gtalug.org? In-Reply-To: <4873B924.2090205-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <87k5fwcl04.fsf@azurservers.com> <4873B924.2090205@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4873D13E.2070505@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Slack Rat wrote: >> "D. Hugh Redelmeier" a ?crit profondement: >> >> | browsing to tlug.ss.org or www.gtalug.org isn't working right now. >> | | My log shows a lot of messages every time I try: >> | | Jul 8 12:52:56 redgate named[1125]: lame server resolving >> 'www.gtalug.org' (in 'gtalug.org'?): 192.139.81.209#53 >> | | | Firefox says: Firefox can't find the server at www.gtalug.org. >> | | | "dig www.gtalug.org A +tcp +trace" says, in part: >> | | [a bunch of times:] >> | | gtalug.org. 86400 IN NS sledz.heinous.org. >> | gtalug.org. 86400 IN NS sauerkraut.heinous.org. >> | | [once in a while, interspersed:] >> | ;; Connection to 212.13.194.143#53(sauerkraut.heinous.org) for >> www.gtalug.org failed: connection refused. >> | | [Then:] >> | dig: too many lookups >> >> http://www.checkdns.net/quickcheckdomainf.aspx >> >> says: >> DNS server sledz.heinous.org[192.139.81.209] is alive, but not >> authoritative for domain 'gtalug.org' and didn't return SOA >> DNS server sauerkraut.heinous.org[192.139.81.208] is alive, but not >> authoritative for domain 'gtalug.org' and didn't return SO > > Leah is aware of the issue and knows the cause, give her a few and > she'll have it fixed. > A few pints? ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jad-V3Qe//ktpHnR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 8 23:52:18 2008 From: jad-V3Qe//ktpHnR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (Jose A. Dias) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 19:52:18 -0400 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> <20080708141013.1badb051@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4873B086.1080803@rogers.com> Message-ID: <08795C772787354E914917175F5503307377DD@skarloey.diaslan.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Stephen > Sent: July 8, 2008 2:23 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: google weighs in on bell throttling > > JoeHill wrote: > > Dave Cramer wrote: > > > > This bit raised my eyebrows: > > > > Rogers, which also slows peer-to-peer applications, disputed claims by > CAIP > > that such throttling affects services such as voice over internet > protocol > > (VoIP) and virtual private networks (VPN). > > > > "This equipment, therefore, does not impact any other traffic such as > VoIP, VPN > > and other online streaming applications because their signatures are > > different," wrote Ken Engelhart, senior vice-president of regulatory > affairs > > for Rogers. "There is therefore no reason why VPN or other encrypted > traffic > > would be affected." > > > > Anyone on Rogers network care to comment on this? > > > > > > When I work from home, I use VPN and get fine performance. > > I suspect that the upload bandwidth I have is fine for a single VPN > connection, plus more. > > Where peer-to-peer would slow down is if many people try to download > from one peer. They would quickly reach the peer's upload capacity, and > then notice slow downs as more people start downloading from that same > peer. And this, of course, would have nothing to do with the "throttling" Bell is doing. On a lark, I started use uTorent. Large files, small files, 20 "test" files in all. No issues so far. I'm using an encrypted channel, but have had no "deathly" slow transfers, down or up. Not empirical at all, but quite entertaining never the less. Hmm... Rogers as a good ISP? I can't believe what I'm saying, but it is interesting... -- Jose Dias jose "dot" dias "at" DiasLan "dot" net > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 9 01:33:41 2008 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 21:33:41 -0400 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling In-Reply-To: <20080708141013.1badb051-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> <20080708141013.1badb051@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <200807082133.41345.amarjan@pobox.com> On July 8, 2008 02:10:13 pm JoeHill wrote: > Dave Cramer wrote: > > http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/07/07/tech-crtc.html > > This bit raised my eyebrows: > > Rogers, which also slows peer-to-peer applications, disputed claims by CAIP > that such throttling affects services such as voice over internet protocol > (VoIP) and virtual private networks (VPN). > > "This equipment, therefore, does not impact any other traffic such as VoIP, > VPN and other online streaming applications because their signatures are > different," wrote Ken Engelhart, senior vice-president of regulatory > affairs for Rogers. "There is therefore no reason why VPN or other > encrypted traffic would be affected." > > Anyone on Rogers network care to comment on this? I regularly transfer SSH up from my home network at my full upstream bandwidth and download at about 200KB/s. At the same time, there is definitely BitTorrent throttling in my neighbourhood. Frankly, it's not surprising that Rogers is doing this much better than Bell. In my experience, Bell is an embodiment of incompetence and belligerent disdain for their customers. Sometimes it feels like Bell reps go out of their way to provide poor service. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 9 02:24:39 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:24:39 -0400 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling In-Reply-To: <200807082133.41345.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> <20080708141013.1badb051@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200807082133.41345.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: <48742167.4020002@telly.org> Andrej Marjan wrote: > Frankly, it's not surprising that Rogers is doing this much better than Bell. > In my experience, Bell is an embodiment of incompetence and belligerent > disdain for their customers. Sometimes it feels like Bell reps go out of > their way to provide poor service. > The customer reps -- who are outsourced to somewhere on the other side of the world -- don't have much to work with. Anything that deviates from specific scripts and decision trees requires long waits and often shrugged shoulders, but I can't take it out on the poor folks at the other end of the line. Having said that, Bell is indeed an incredible source of frustration and occasional you-can't-get-there-from-here answers. As the "computer guy" for a number of friends and family members, and sometimes at client sites, I find myself occasionally debugging Bell setups. The experience is routinely ghastly, reminding me that, as bad as Rogers can sometimes be, it could be much worse. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 9 07:33:17 2008 From: linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kamran) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 03:33:17 -0400 Subject: Digitizing Books Message-ID: <487469BD.4000408@gmail.com> I have a modest collection of books I want to scan into pdfs. Can anyone recommend a company that does this? Approximately how much did it cost you per book? I am interested to hear about companies that leave the books intact and those that destroy the bindings of the books. Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 9 11:11:32 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:11:32 -0400 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling In-Reply-To: <200807082133.41345.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> <20080708141013.1badb051@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <200807082133.41345.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: <48749CE4.5040904@rogers.com> Andrej Marjan wrote: > On July 8, 2008 02:10:13 pm JoeHill wrote: > >> Dave Cramer wrote: >> >>> http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/07/07/tech-crtc.html >>> >> This bit raised my eyebrows: >> >> Rogers, which also slows peer-to-peer applications, disputed claims by CAIP >> that such throttling affects services such as voice over internet protocol >> (VoIP) and virtual private networks (VPN). >> >> "This equipment, therefore, does not impact any other traffic such as VoIP, >> VPN and other online streaming applications because their signatures are >> different," wrote Ken Engelhart, senior vice-president of regulatory >> affairs for Rogers. "There is therefore no reason why VPN or other >> encrypted traffic would be affected." >> >> Anyone on Rogers network care to comment on this? >> > > I regularly transfer SSH up from my home network at my full upstream bandwidth > and download at about 200KB/s. > > At the same time, there is definitely BitTorrent throttling in my > neighbourhood. > > Frankly, it's not surprising that Rogers is doing this much better than Bell. > In my experience, Bell is an embodiment of incompetence and belligerent > disdain for their customers. Sometimes it feels like Bell reps go out of > their way to provide poor service. > Having dealt with both Rogers and Sympatico, I have to agree. Rogers provides much better service. The Sympatico "help" desk all but begs customers to take their business elsewhere. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 9 13:44:02 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 09:44:02 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu 8.04.1 released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1215611042.5926.18.camel@jaguar-hardy> This morning Ubuntu has upgrades available for 8.04. Hmm. Wednesday morning. Is this good? Just from curiosity, I wonder how far MonopolySoftware has progressed delivering fixes. Cheers, Terry. On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 17:31 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Ubuntu has issued new CDs with 8.04 + updates. They are calling it > 8.04.1. It was nnounced last Thursday. > > This is a Good Thing because 8.04.1 had a very serious security bug. > That's not the reason they are giving for the respin, but it is reason > enough for me. > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2008-July/000112.html > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 9 13:51:13 2008 From: sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 06:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Digitizing Books In-Reply-To: <487469BD.4000408-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <487469BD.4000408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <674982.96843.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 7/9/08, Kamran wrote: > I have a modest collection of books I want to scan into > pdfs. Can > anyone recommend a company that does this? Approximately > how much did > it cost you per book? I am interested to hear about > companies that > leave the books intact and those that destroy the bindings > of the books. I have no idea who does this kind of thing commercially, but I saw this on archive.org recently, so maybe the forums there would be a good place to start. http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=194217 Rob http://www.mysapce.com/gylany -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 9 15:03:47 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 11:03:47 -0400 Subject: Digitizing Books In-Reply-To: <487469BD.4000408-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <487469BD.4000408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080709110347.0b097a60@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Kamran wrote: > I have a modest collection of books I want to scan into pdfs. Can > anyone recommend a company that does this? Approximately how much did > it cost you per book? I am interested to hear about companies that > leave the books intact and those that destroy the bindings of the books. That's what I do every night. :-) I'm not sure whether we would do just any book, but everything we scan ends up on archive.org. We do not destroy the bindings, unless we're feeling angry and the book is not cooperating (just kidding, but some books break as soon as I open them) ;) This is how we do it: http://www.wired.com/entertainment/theweb/multimedia/2008/03/gallery_internet_archive I will ask tonight what the criteria are and so on for collections that we can scan and get back with more tonight if you are interested. Are the books 'yours'? ie., this collection of books is not under someone elses copyright and such like? -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ "I'm a fraud - a poor, lazy, sexy fraud." -Bender -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vsienme-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 9 20:12:46 2008 From: vsienme-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Victor Sien) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:12:46 -0400 Subject: [OT] Recommended C++ course/training school Message-ID: Hi, I'll go a bit off-topic here so i hope you bear with me.. I'm looking for a C++ training course in the GTA for my next project (we're finally moving some of our apps to linux, yay!). If you've been to one or know one you'd highly to recommend, please let me know... I'm looking at this one, but i dont have any experience with the school, so i appreciate any tips. http://www.traininghott.ca/Courses/C++-Programming-Non-C-Hands-On-C++-Training-C++-Course-C++-Class-C++-Seminar.htm Thanks! Victor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 9 21:14:21 2008 From: linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kamran) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:14:21 -0400 Subject: Digitizing Books In-Reply-To: <20080709110347.0b097a60-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <487469BD.4000408@gmail.com> <20080709110347.0b097a60@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <48752A2D.4070804@gmail.com> JoeHill wrote: > Kamran wrote: > >> I have a modest collection of books I want to scan into pdfs. Can >> anyone recommend a company that does this? Approximately how much did >> it cost you per book? I am interested to hear about companies that >> leave the books intact and those that destroy the bindings of the books. > > That's what I do every night. :-) > > I'm not sure whether we would do just any book, but everything we scan ends up > on archive.org. > > We do not destroy the bindings, unless we're feeling angry and the book is not > cooperating (just kidding, but some books break as soon as I open them) ;) > > This is how we do it: > > http://www.wired.com/entertainment/theweb/multimedia/2008/03/gallery_internet_archive > > I will ask tonight what the criteria are and so on for collections that we can > scan and get back with more tonight if you are interested. > > Are the books 'yours'? ie., this collection of books is not under someone elses > copyright and such like? > The books are under copyright. I want this done for personal use. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 9 22:41:28 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 18:41:28 -0400 Subject: "design flow" as a reason of DNS vulnaribility of any servers... Message-ID: Interesting? http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080709124916.zxdxcmkx&show_article=1 And there two: www.doxpara.com At the last place one can check if their DNS servers are pached. I checked 2 hours ago from work, and Bell-nexia was not ... For some reason this does not work for me from home (Rogers). zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 10 15:13:11 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:13:11 -0400 Subject: Digitizing Books In-Reply-To: <48752A2D.4070804-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <487469BD.4000408@gmail.com> <20080709110347.0b097a60@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <48752A2D.4070804@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080710111311.2ef15208@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Kamran wrote: > JoeHill wrote: > > Kamran wrote: > > > >> I have a modest collection of books I want to scan into pdfs. Can > >> anyone recommend a company that does this? Approximately how much did > >> it cost you per book? I am interested to hear about companies that > >> leave the books intact and those that destroy the bindings of the books. > > > > That's what I do every night. :-) > > > > I'm not sure whether we would do just any book, but everything we scan ends > > up on archive.org. > > > > We do not destroy the bindings, unless we're feeling angry and the book is > > not cooperating (just kidding, but some books break as soon as I open > > them) ;) > > > > This is how we do it: > > > > http://www.wired.com/entertainment/theweb/multimedia/2008/03/gallery_internet_archive > > > > I will ask tonight what the criteria are and so on for collections that we > > can scan and get back with more tonight if you are interested. > > > > Are the books 'yours'? ie., this collection of books is not under someone > > elses copyright and such like? > > > > The books are under copyright. I want this done for personal use. Not sure how that works, but if you e-mail Gabe at the address I sent you offlist, he should be able to give you a solid answer. -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Cubert: "Robots are very good at keeping secrets." Bender: "No, we're not, you little bed-wetter. Oops, I'm sorry." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 10 21:26:39 2008 From: william.muriithi-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (William Muriithi) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 00:26:39 +0300 Subject: fax servers for Windows Message-ID: Hi there, Is it possible to install efax on Windows? I have come across article that seem to indicate this could be possible, but don?t understand how that could be possible considering efax heavy reliance on CUPS. Or in another word, if there open source fax server that can be set up on Windows platform easily? Regards, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 10 23:40:12 2008 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:40:12 -0400 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling In-Reply-To: <48742167.4020002-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> <200807082133.41345.amarjan@pobox.com> <48742167.4020002@telly.org> Message-ID: <200807101940.12868.amarjan@pobox.com> On July 8, 2008 10:24:39 pm Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Andrej Marjan wrote: > > Frankly, it's not surprising that Rogers is doing this much better than > > Bell. In my experience, Bell is an embodiment of incompetence and > > belligerent disdain for their customers. Sometimes it feels like Bell > > reps go out of their way to provide poor service. > > The customer reps -- who are outsourced to somewhere on the other side > of the world -- don't have much to work with. Anything that deviates > from specific scripts and decision trees requires long waits and often > shrugged shoulders, but I can't take it out on the poor folks at the > other end of the line. That's true today, but what I'm describing has been going on at Bell for decades, since long before outsourcing was an option. Bell has an entrenched corporate culture of monopoly, and the current oligopoly market situation gives them no reason to change. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 10 23:48:56 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:48:56 -0400 Subject: Postfix (mail server) question Message-ID: <48769FE8.9000506@telly.org> Hi there, I'm trying to do a certain kind of Postfix config; I'm certain the system can do it but so far my time perusing the fine manuals hasn't suggested the right config. What I'd like to have is a list of users for whom mail is punted to a different SMTP host on the local network. For all other users, mail is delivered locally (via a Courier IMAP server). Of course there are many other parts of the config (mainly implementing postgrey, amavis, maia, spamassassin and clamav) but I think I have those parts down. Any help is appreciated. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 11 00:02:31 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:02:31 -0400 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling In-Reply-To: <200807101940.12868.amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> <200807082133.41345.amarjan@pobox.com> <48742167.4020002@telly.org> <200807101940.12868.amarjan@pobox.com> Message-ID: <4876A317.3050300@telly.org> Andrej Marjan wrote: > That's true today, but what I'm describing has been going on at Bell for > decades, since long before outsourcing was an option. Bell has an entrenched > corporate culture of monopoly, and the current oligopoly market situation > gives them no reason to change. > Certainly the shift from monopoly to oligopoly has been significant, and led to a substantial drop in business. While the number of big players has not risen sharply, there is no love lost between Rogers and Bell (or Telus, for that matter). What worked when there was no other choice doesn't work any more. To successfully compete, Rogers and Telus don't have to be perfect or even that good; they just need to be better than Bell (which isn't asking for much). As you suggest, the corporate culture within Bell isn't accustomed to competition, and not even talking beavers can stop the slide. Do you think it's any coincidence that BCE is being sold, not to another telco, not to a media or tech company, but to a pension plan? That action will inevitably lead to the slicing and dicing of the company, in a desparate search for competitive snippets, leading to a Bell that will be very different in a few years from what it is now. While I don't see much pity or sadness over the dismantling, the potential aftermath could be a relaxation of foreign ownership regulations in the telco industry. Anyone interesting in seeing pieces of Bell scooped up by Verizon or Vodaphone? (Heck, having a Canadian telco move towards the European/Asian model of cellphone acquisition might be a very good step. But I'm not holding my breath for it.) - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 11 00:23:46 2008 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins Witteman) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:23:46 -0400 Subject: Postfix (mail server) question In-Reply-To: <48769FE8.9000506-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48769FE8.9000506@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080711002346.GA15896@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 07:48:56PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >What I'd like to have is a list of users for whom mail is punted to a >different SMTP host on the local network. For all other users, mail is >delivered locally (via a Courier IMAP server). I think the easiest mechanism is to have an alias file redirect the mails you want punted. Here's a possible setup (this is rigged for virtual domains, but that my be appropriate): In main.cf: virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/valias-maps valias-maps: email-5uGgS2SXJz0 at public.gmane.org email-xSk6NArqQz7hqhT0DG1rBA at public.gmane.org Remember to run postmap on the valias-maps file to generate a valias-maps.db file. This only requires that the main mail box knows how to resolve the to.punt.address. Hope that helps. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 11 13:04:56 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:04:56 -0400 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling In-Reply-To: <4876A317.3050300-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> <200807082133.41345.amarjan@pobox.com> <48742167.4020002@telly.org> <200807101940.12868.amarjan@pobox.com> <4876A317.3050300@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080711130456.GB29497@watson-wilson.ca> Evan, You make some good points. I certainly hope that the purchase of Bell leads to improvement and better competition. A European or Asian model would be a nice change in some ways ( but not charging for local calls). A scarier alternative would be a shift to the American style of phone service. I hear many telecom horror stories from our southern neighbours. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 11 15:41:13 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 11:41:13 -0400 Subject: google weighs in on bell throttling In-Reply-To: References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> <20080708141013.1badb051@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <48737AFA.8040109@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807110841m50e33517gcb208a5b391be8c@mail.gmail.com> I experience the same thing with my connection (ADSL, which means throttled by Bell). SCP'ing files from work seems to experience some definite speed issues that I do not experience on my LAN or when the server was previously hooked up with a different ISP. On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Jamon Camisso > wrote: >> JoeHill wrote: >>> >>> Dave Cramer wrote: >>>> >>>> http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/07/07/tech-crtc.html >>> >>> This bit raised my eyebrows: >>> >>> Rogers, which also slows peer-to-peer applications, disputed claims by >>> CAIP >>> that such throttling affects services such as voice over internet protocol >>> (VoIP) and virtual private networks (VPN). >>> >>> "This equipment, therefore, does not impact any other traffic such as >>> VoIP, VPN >>> and other online streaming applications because their signatures are >>> different," wrote Ken Engelhart, senior vice-president of regulatory >>> affairs >>> for Rogers. "There is therefore no reason why VPN or other encrypted >>> traffic >>> would be affected." >>> >>> Anyone on Rogers network care to comment on this? >>> >> > > I am almost certain that by SSH connection is affected. We have at > work a "fast" internet connection in both directions, I can download > large files by using http or https from work server to home with at > least 10-20 times higher speed than by using scp. SSH speed is just > exactly at around 35 kBps. > > zb. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 11 17:32:52 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:32:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Postfix (mail server) question In-Reply-To: <48769FE8.9000506-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48769FE8.9000506@telly.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jul 2008, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > What I'd like to have is a list of users for whom mail is punted to a > different SMTP host on the local network. For all other users, mail is > delivered locally (via a Courier IMAP server). Hi Evan. You can do it the other way around with an "luser_relay", that is deliver locally if the user exists otherwise send the mail elsewhere. luser_relay is mentioned here: http://www.postfix.org/rewrite.html Alternatively can can simply direct the users on a case by case basis as William suggests. My preference in this case would be to use the virtual map. Another option is to have Postfix do an LDAP lookup to see what to do with the email. luser_relay is nice because it is low maintenance. If the user doesn't exist locally send it off to another box to deal with. Beware of becoming a source of "backscatter" spam though. Any MTA which accepts mail for the domain needs to reject mail to non-existant recipients in the domain or it can be a source of backscatter. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 11 17:33:20 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:33:20 -0400 Subject: Postfix (mail server) question In-Reply-To: References: <48769FE8.9000506@telly.org> Message-ID: <48779960.2080401@utoronto.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jul 2008, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> What I'd like to have is a list of users for whom mail is punted to a >> different SMTP host on the local network. For all other users, mail is >> delivered locally (via a Courier IMAP server). > > Hi Evan. You can do it the other way around with an "luser_relay", that > is deliver locally if the user exists otherwise send the mail elsewhere. > luser_relay is mentioned here: http://www.postfix.org/rewrite.html > > Alternatively can can simply direct the users on a case by case basis as > William suggests. My preference in this case would be to use the > virtual map. > > Another option is to have Postfix do an LDAP lookup to see what to do > with the email. > > luser_relay is nice because it is low maintenance. If the user doesn't > exist locally send it off to another box to deal with. If the user exists with the same name on both machines it won't be forwarded. Don't forget about just plain /etc/aliases or procmail too ;) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 11 23:09:44 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:09:44 -0400 Subject: Act! like contact manager needed Message-ID: <4877E838.4060304@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am migrating a Windows user to (Ubuntu) Linux but am hitting one wall. I need to find something like Sage's Act! contact manager. Specifically, something that can read/import the Act! DB. Unfortunately, 'Act' is kind of an ambiguous term and I am failing at Google. Help? :) Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 11 23:21:58 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:21:58 -0400 Subject: Act! like contact manager needed In-Reply-To: <4877E838.4060304-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4877E838.4060304@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4877EB16.4000600@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > I am migrating a Windows user to (Ubuntu) Linux but am hitting one > wall. I need to find something like Sage's Act! contact manager. > Specifically, something that can read/import the Act! DB. > Unfortunately, 'Act' is kind of an ambiguous term and I am failing at > Google. > Hi Check out http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/web/turba Looks like will have to map the import, but it looks like you can get where you want. Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 12 00:29:57 2008 From: echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:29:57 -0400 Subject: ACER USB boot In-Reply-To: <20080711130456.GB29497-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <501145EB-0ACE-4171-AEE9-37A40D087424@visibleassets.com> <200807082133.41345.amarjan@pobox.com> <48742167.4020002@telly.org> <200807101940.12868.amarjan@pobox.com> <4876A317.3050300@telly.org> <20080711130456.GB29497@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <4877FB05.4040006@teksavvy.com> A while ago I was asking hither & yon about the possibility of booting my Travelmate 240 from a stick. I was hoping to run Fedora 9 that way. According to The Net the answer is no. Comments? -- http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 12 08:21:05 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:21:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Postfix (mail server) question In-Reply-To: <48779960.2080401-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <48769FE8.9000506@telly.org> <48779960.2080401@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, Jamon Camisso wrote: I wrote: >> luser_relay is nice because it is low maintenance. If the user doesn't >> exist locally send it off to another box to deal with. > > If the user exists with the same name on both machines it won't be forwarded. Remember that the usernames don't matter. What matters is whether there is somewhere to deliver the mail to. Email addresses and usernames can have a many to many mapping. luser_relay is typically used in the situation where where several MTAs collectively handle the mail for a given organisation. In all situations where I've used it, or seen it used, email and user accounts are centrally managed. Using luser_relay without central management would be tricky. It is often used where a company has many branch offices. Rather than have mail for your local co-workers relay into a central core and back out to the same office (a waste of time and bandwidth) a check is carried out to see if the user exists locally before passing the mail on to the central post office for delivery elsewhere in the organisation. > Don't forget about just plain /etc/aliases or procmail too ;) Well first off let me say I love procmail :) I typically use it as an LDA. A warning to anyone wanting to try out procmail: keep backups. Procmail is not tolerant of mistakes. Read man procmailrc and procmailex for some good advice on backing up mail while playing with your procmail rules. As for aliases, in general I prefer to use a virtual map (Postfix) or virtusertable (Sendmail) for these sorts of things. This approach partly came out of having to wrestle with non-obvious interactions of the various maps in Sendmail many years ago. Settling on one map for most of the work made things conceptually simpler and the virtual map has a lot more flexibility. Aliases have some really useful capabilites of course like being able to pipe the mail to a process for further processing. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 12 13:52:52 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:52:52 -0400 Subject: non-sympatica adsl2+ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1215870772.16867.110.camel@localhost> does anyone know anything much about colbanet? they seem to be offering adsl2+ for a VERY reasonable rate -- 27.95? that's so much cheaper than bell or rogers i find it hard to believe. any comments? http://www2.colba.net/index.php?MODID=Order2&SUBMOD=STEP3&Order2[ServiceID]=10 matt -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 12 18:47:05 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 14:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: non-sympatica adsl2+ In-Reply-To: <1215870772.16867.110.camel@localhost> References: <1215870772.16867.110.camel@localhost> Message-ID: | From: Matt Price | does anyone know anything much about colbanet? they seem to be offering | adsl2+ for a VERY reasonable rate -- 27.95? that's so much cheaper than | bell or rogers i find it hard to believe. any comments? | | http://www2.colba.net/index.php?MODID=Order2&SUBMOD=STEP3&Order2[ServiceID]=10 That rate is very good. But it is described as "PROMOTION". It looks as if you can get 29.95/month for a one year contract -- pretty good. Most promotions last 3 or 6 months. I would expect this rate to go up in the near future. Of course it could just be too good to be true -- it is roughly a third of Sympatico's price for ADSL2+ "Total Internet Max": 87.95/month (but you can get various inducements like 2 months free). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 12 21:26:42 2008 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:26:42 -0400 Subject: Bell Sympatico offered me fast service In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48792192.9040209@sympatico.ca> I've been away for a couple of weeks and just saw this.... D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I got a form letter from Bell that starts: > > Great news. Our new, next generation fibre optic Internet > service is now availaible in your neighbourhood. > > Since ADSL in my house has been crappy and slow, I just phoned them to > figure out what they meant by this. > > First they told me that they have fibre optic. I asked where? To my > demarc, they said. Clearly this isn't true because they haven't been in > my basement. > > I played 20 questions with Nasar on the phone, ignoring obvious > mis-statements. > > - maybe there is fibre to a location closer than the Central Office > was (the CO was about 5km, if I remember correctly, explaining > my crappy service) > > - he told me that I could have 16000kb service (down, of course; 1mb > up). That is perhaps 10x what I have now (from another ADSL > provider). He agreed that it was 10 times what I would have had in > the past. > > - he said that distance to the new CO-or-whatever was a secret and > would not tell me > > - I asked about the modem (wondering if they have some new > technology). He said yes, but was really only talking about > features like being a router and switch on top of being a modem. > When pressed, he said it was same old ADSL. 2wire brand. > > Does anyone know what this is about? Have Bell likely installed a > "remote" to cut the length of the copper run? Or something else? Or, > This is basically what it is, fibre to a box closer to home, with ADSL2 technology. The copper component becomes very short. It is not fibre to your demarc though - not yet anyway. > nothing (just an ad)? > > Oh, and what is "next generation" about this? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From walterdnes-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 01:47:47 2008 From: walterdnes-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 21:47:47 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution Message-ID: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> One embarressing "oops"; I didn't order a built-in PCI modem card for a Dell. Apparently, them thar new-fangled machines don't got no serial port. So much for my faithfull USR X2 external modem. I suppose I'm looking at getting a PCI card retail. Or are there any other dialup solutions. I use dialup as emergency backup. It's really nice to have when I need it. Are there any other dialup options in the brave new world of computing? I have 1 free PCI slot in the machine. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 01:59:03 2008 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 21:59:03 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20080713014747.GB29319-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <48796167.5090404@alteeve.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > One embarressing "oops"; I didn't order a built-in PCI modem card for > a Dell. Apparently, them thar new-fangled machines don't got no serial > port. So much for my faithfull USR X2 external modem. I suppose I'm > looking at getting a PCI card retail. Or are there any other dialup > solutions. I use dialup as emergency backup. It's really nice to have > when I need it. > > Are there any other dialup options in the brave new world of > computing? I have 1 free PCI slot in the machine. > You could always get a USB to Serial adapter. Last I checked these and their printer counter parts are reasonably well supported in Linux. Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 01:59:47 2008 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 21:59:47 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20080713014747.GB29319-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200807122159.48217.dbmacg@look.ca> Serial-to-USB converters work well. I have used a Garmin GPS this way for years, into Mac and Linux boxen. On July 12, 2008 09:47:47 pm Walter Dnes wrote: > One embarressing "oops"; I didn't order a built-in PCI modem card for > a Dell. Apparently, them thar new-fangled machines don't got no serial > port. So much for my faithfull USR X2 external modem. I suppose I'm > looking at getting a PCI card retail. Or are there any other dialup > solutions. I use dialup as emergency backup. It's really nice to have > when I need it. > > Are there any other dialup options in the brave new world of > computing? I have 1 free PCI slot in the machine. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 02:01:51 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:01:51 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20080713014747.GB29319-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4879620F.6070903@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > One embarressing "oops"; I didn't order a built-in PCI modem card for > a Dell. Apparently, them thar new-fangled machines don't got no serial > port. So much for my faithfull USR X2 external modem. I suppose I'm > looking at getting a PCI card retail. Or are there any other dialup > solutions. I use dialup as emergency backup. It's really nice to have > when I need it. > > Are there any other dialup options in the brave new world of > computing? I have 1 free PCI slot in the machine. > > You can get a USB - serial port adapter. I have one for my ThinkPad. I paid something like $20 - 25 at Sayal for it. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 02:12:58 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:12:58 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20080713014747.GB29319-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> Walter Dnes wrote: > One embarressing "oops"; I didn't order a built-in PCI modem card for > a Dell. Apparently, them thar new-fangled machines don't got no serial > port. So much for my faithfull USR X2 external modem. I suppose I'm > looking at getting a PCI card retail. Or are there any other dialup > solutions. There are some USB solutions, that have the advantage that they can also work on laptops (or desktops that will soon ship without regular PCI either) and can easily be moved from one system to another (which may be useful considering that this is a backup system). There are some USB-to-DB9 serial adaptors but I don't know how well they handle the complexities of RS-232 modem control. There is also a USB modem you may want to consider that has explicit Linux support -- from a vendor that has a history of being Linux/Unix friendly: http://www.multitech.com/PRODUCTS/Families/MultiMobileUSB/ Amazon.com has it for less than $110. HTH - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 02:25:41 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <487964AA.2070702-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> Message-ID: <20016.99.253.255.228.1215915941.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> > There are some USB-to-DB9 serial adaptors but I don't know how well they > handle the complexities of RS-232 modem control. For what it's worth, we found that USB-Serial control includes hardware flow control (RTS-CTS handshaking). We also found that the FTDI FT232BM chip - which we use in our hardware to translate the USB signals back to RS-232 - does not stop instantaneously on de-asserting the handshaking line - few more bytes dribble in. (We hypothesise that the FT232BM chip is implemented with a microprocessor core and the software takes some time to respond to the hardware control line.) However, that's an idiosyncracy of that particular chip, the handshaking seems to work fine in the host. -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 02:53:37 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:53:37 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20016.99.253.255.228.1215915941.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> <20016.99.253.255.228.1215915941.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <48796E31.3050208@telly.org> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> There are some USB-to-DB9 serial adaptors but I don't know how well they >> handle the complexities of RS-232 modem control. >> > > For what it's worth, we found that USB-Serial control includes hardware > flow control (RTS-CTS handshaking). > Good to know. It's just that I have too many recollections of the nightmares I had with breakout boxes trying to make various kinds of modems work with various kinds of serial ports. If only hardware handshaking was always just RTS/CTS. :-) (On a DB9 cable things weren't that bad, there weren't too many ways to screw up that spec. On a DB25 pinout -- like the kind on Walter's Sportster modem -- there are many more ways to complicate things (In fact I recall that DTR/DSR hardware handshaking was at least as or more important than RTS/CTS, in the heyday of these modems.) Does the USB-DB9 adaptor support all eight pins (we can do without Ring Indicator, but let's not forget the venerable Carrier Detect ;-) )? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 03:18:42 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 23:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution Message-ID: <23198.99.253.255.228.1215919122.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> >> For what it's worth, we found that USB-Serial control includes hardware >> flow control (RTS-CTS handshaking). >> > Good to know. It's just that I have too many recollections of the > nightmares I had with breakout boxes trying to make various kinds of > modems work with various kinds of serial ports. If only hardware > handshaking was always just RTS/CTS. :-) > > (On a DB9 cable things weren't that bad, there weren't too many ways to > screw up that spec. On a DB25 pinout -- like the kind on Walter's > Sportster modem -- there are many more ways to complicate things (In > fact I recall that DTR/DSR hardware handshaking was at least as or more > important than RTS/CTS, in the heyday of these modems.) > > Does the USB-DB9 adaptor support all eight pins (we can do without Ring > Indicator, but let's not forget the venerable Carrier Detect ;-) )? > Don't know. But I did use a USB-DB9 adaptor to interface to a multimeter that has a serial interface. (I wrote a strip chart recorder program in Tcl to log data from the meter. A very low-cost way to build a data-acquisition system.) The multimeter required that RTS be asserted, not for flow control, but to provide the negative voltage for driving the multimeter opto-isolated interface! (The damn thing also used a 600 baud rate, which some terminal emulators don't support!) The Tcl serial control commands can assert and deassert CTS and RTS, so it was possible to do that and the usb-serial adaptor (something I got at Canada Computes as I remember) handled that just fine. I'd give it a try. USB-serial adaptors are inexpensive and then you can use your old modem hardware and any software that can talk to a serial port. Just don't buy the adaptor at the Dollar Store, get one from a computer dealer. Incidentally, for troubleshooting a serial port connection, you really really need a breakout box with LED indicators. And one with jumpers that so you can read out signals on a scope (our scope is especially nice for this ;) and cross connect them, is also very useful. I got both those breakout boxs for a few bucks each at Supremetronic (which became Honson, which is now a (god help us) hardware store with an electronics section on College St. (Creatron on College might also be a good bet, or Sayal if you're up north.) So, I've had good luck with USB-serial adaptors, but not with USB-parallel port adaptors. The latter did not work with a Samsung printer. Peter -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 12:04:34 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:04:34 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20016.99.253.255.228.1215915941.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> <20016.99.253.255.228.1215915941.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4879EF52.1030309@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> There are some USB-to-DB9 serial adaptors but I don't know how well they >> handle the complexities of RS-232 modem control. >> > > For what it's worth, we found that USB-Serial control includes hardware > flow control (RTS-CTS handshaking). > > We also found that the FTDI FT232BM chip - which we use in our hardware to > translate the USB signals back to RS-232 - does not stop instantaneously > on de-asserting the handshaking line - few more bytes dribble in. (We > hypothesise that the FT232BM chip is implemented with a microprocessor > core and the software takes some time to respond to the hardware control > line.) However, that's an idiosyncracy of that particular chip, the > handshaking seems to work fine in the host. > > FWIW, I've never seen a UART that actually stops the data on hardware handshaking. Changing those status lines only change status a bit and generate an interrupt. It's up to the software to stop the data. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 12:07:42 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:07:42 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <48796E31.3050208-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> <20016.99.253.255.228.1215915941.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <48796E31.3050208@telly.org> Message-ID: <4879F00E.4070107@rogers.com> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >>> There are some USB-to-DB9 serial adaptors but I don't know how well they >>> handle the complexities of RS-232 modem control. >>> >>> >> For what it's worth, we found that USB-Serial control includes hardware >> flow control (RTS-CTS handshaking). >> >> > Good to know. It's just that I have too many recollections of the > nightmares I had with breakout boxes trying to make various kinds of > modems work with various kinds of serial ports. If only hardware > handshaking was always just RTS/CTS. :-) > > (On a DB9 cable things weren't that bad, there weren't too many ways to > screw up that spec. On a DB25 pinout -- like the kind on Walter's > Sportster modem -- there are many more ways to complicate things (In > fact I recall that DTR/DSR hardware handshaking was at least as or more > important than RTS/CTS, in the heyday of these modems.) > > Does the USB-DB9 adaptor support all eight pins (we can do without Ring > Indicator, but let's not forget the venerable Carrier Detect ;-) )? > > For standard modems, the exact same signals were used whether on 9 or 25 pin connectors. It was only when you got to synchronous modems, where you had to worry about clocks etc., that things got more interesting. However, there were a lot of devices that weren't quite following the spec and required changing connections to get them to work. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 12:08:57 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:08:57 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <23198.99.253.255.228.1215919122.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <23198.99.253.255.228.1215919122.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4879F059.8070607@rogers.com> phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Don't know. But I did use a USB-DB9 adaptor to interface to a multimeter > Argghhh!!! That's DE9, not DB9! ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 12:31:54 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:31:54 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20080713014747.GB29319-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 7/12/08, Walter Dnes wrote: > One embarressing "oops"; I didn't order a built-in PCI modem card for > a Dell. Apparently, them thar new-fangled machines don't got no serial > port. So much for my faithfull USR X2 external modem. I suppose I'm > looking at getting a PCI card retail. Or are there any other dialup > solutions. I use dialup as emergency backup. It's really nice to have > when I need it. > > Are there any other dialup options in the brave new world of > computing? I have 1 free PCI slot in the machine. > > -- > Walter Dnes Over the years there have been a small number of routers that have supported serial ports and offered the option of having automatic fail-over to dial-up. Here are some possible options (mind you as far as I know none of the following are currently available new...): - D-Link DI 714 - SMC7004AVR Barricade - Netgear FR328S Neat clean solution, you normally run with your high speed provider, and if there is an issue, the router worries about talking to the dial-up modem. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 16:03:43 2008 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:03:43 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20080713014747.GB29319-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200807131203.43487.mervc@eol.ca> On Saturday 12 July 2008 21:47, Walter Dnes wrote: > One embarressing "oops"; I didn't order a built-in PCI modem card for > a Dell. Apparently, them thar new-fangled machines don't got no serial > port. So much for my faithfull USR X2 external modem. I suppose I'm > looking at getting a PCI card retail. Or are there any other dialup > solutions. I use dialup as emergency backup. It's really nice to have > when I need it. > > Are there any other dialup options in the brave new world of > computing? I have 1 free PCI slot in the machine. Several years ago I purchased a 2 port PCI card when I needed 2 additional serial ports. Made by StarTech, a model PCI2S550, [ I think ]. A bit more expensive than USB adaptors but DB9 connectors and good performance. Probably others around. Cheers -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Debian Sid Linux Desktop KDE 3.5.7 KMail 1.9.5 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 13 20:57:14 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:57:14 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu RAM detection Message-ID: <3a97ef0807131357n3cf701ceq8b789682da9f90da@mail.gmail.com> Hey All, Anyone know why my system would detect all my RAM (2GB) on boot, but only find about 1GB when linux is booted up? Ubuntu 8/32-bit, self-rolled 2.6.25.9 kernel, on Dual-core Athlon 64. Various apps including "Top" etc only show about a gig of RAM. Not sure if this has something to do with running a 32-bit OS on 64-bit hardware (doubt it, I'm under the 4GB/CPU limit), something weird with the SMP/memory-sharing, (64-bit memory & IO resources not enabled in kernel), or some other issue? Any ideas? - Tyler -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 01:34:15 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:34:15 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu RAM detection In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807131357n3cf701ceq8b789682da9f90da-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807131357n3cf701ceq8b789682da9f90da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880807131834g49fe989dqdad5471a015ccad9@mail.gmail.com> Hey Tyler, So: cat /proc/meminfo shows one gig? On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hey All, > > > Anyone know why my system would detect all my RAM (2GB) on boot, but > only find about 1GB when linux is booted up? Ubuntu 8/32-bit, > self-rolled 2.6.25.9 kernel, on Dual-core Athlon 64. Various apps > including "Top" etc only show about a gig of RAM. Not sure if this has > something to do with running a 32-bit OS on 64-bit hardware (doubt it, > I'm under the 4GB/CPU limit), something weird with the > SMP/memory-sharing, (64-bit memory & IO resources not enabled in > kernel), or some other issue? > > > Any ideas? > > > > - Tyler > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 01:37:38 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 21:37:38 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu RAM detection In-Reply-To: <32f6a8880807131834g49fe989dqdad5471a015ccad9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807131357n3cf701ceq8b789682da9f90da@mail.gmail.com> <32f6a8880807131834g49fe989dqdad5471a015ccad9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880807131837u5b55423av744334ed252e27ae@mail.gmail.com> Hi Tyler, Check to see in the BIOS if there is an option to change regular ram TO VIDEO RAM, Its possible on some computers have the option to change RAM to VIDEO RAM. Is windows showing the same thing? On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 9:34 PM, Dave Germiquet wrote: > Hey Tyler, > > So: > > cat /proc/meminfo shows one gig? > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Hey All, >> >> >> Anyone know why my system would detect all my RAM (2GB) on boot, but >> only find about 1GB when linux is booted up? Ubuntu 8/32-bit, >> self-rolled 2.6.25.9 kernel, on Dual-core Athlon 64. Various apps >> including "Top" etc only show about a gig of RAM. Not sure if this has >> something to do with running a 32-bit OS on 64-bit hardware (doubt it, >> I'm under the 4GB/CPU limit), something weird with the >> SMP/memory-sharing, (64-bit memory & IO resources not enabled in >> kernel), or some other issue? >> >> >> Any ideas? >> >> >> >> - Tyler >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > > > > The man who is always a newbie at something, > Dave Germiquet > > Everytime I learn something new, > I realize I know very little. > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 02:43:53 2008 From: sciguy-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:43:53 -0400 Subject: Hooking up a SATA drive to a PATA motherboard Message-ID: <1216003433.6329.8.camel@aragorn> Hello I recently purchased a PCI adapter card to hook up a recent 1TB SATA drive I purchased. I have a motherboard which is an ASUS A7 running an AMD Athlon processor. Problem is that adding the card means that all my PCI ports will be taken. It seems to matter, since adding the card makes the computer freeze on detection of the SATA card. Another potential cause of conflict is that I already had a PATA IDE raid card. I was wondering if getting one of those SATA adapters (converts a PATA to SATA port) was OK to put on to the RAID card. I already have one SATA power hookup attached to the power supply. Anyone got SATA to work on hardware that old? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 05:15:33 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 01:15:33 -0400 Subject: Hooking up a SATA drive to a PATA motherboard In-Reply-To: <1216003433.6329.8.camel@aragorn> References: <1216003433.6329.8.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <487AE0F5.80800@pppoe.ca> Paul King wrote: > Hello > > I recently purchased a PCI adapter card to hook up a recent 1TB SATA > drive I purchased. I have a motherboard which is an ASUS A7 running an > AMD Athlon processor. > > Problem is that adding the card means that all my PCI ports will be > taken. It seems to matter, since adding the card makes the computer > freeze on detection of the SATA card. > > Another potential cause of conflict is that I already had a PATA IDE > raid card. I was wondering if getting one of those SATA adapters > (converts a PATA to SATA port) was OK to put on to the RAID card. I > already have one SATA power hookup attached to the power supply. > > Anyone got SATA to work on hardware that old? > I tried a SATA drive with my ASUS K8N motherboard; no success. Others have been successful with old hardware. I'm afraid this is one issue where YMMV :-) Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 06:33:05 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 00:33:05 -0600 Subject: Questions about gaming in Linux / virtualization Message-ID: <487AF321.3080609@ualberta.ca> Hello, I have a dual-boot Windows XP / Ubuntu Linux machine but I hardly ever use the Windows partition. I'd like to play the new MTG Online III by Wizards of the Coast, but I really don't want to reboot every time to do this because I'd like to play for 5-10 min at a time here-and-there in work lulls. Cedega has it listed as a 3/5 compatibility rating so it's not worth using that. I tried Wine and it just didn't start (after installation). This game shouldn't be too demanding the graphics end, so now I'm thinking of running it through a virtual PC running Windows. My questions are: - Is there a better route other than what I tried above to play the game in Linux? - What is the best free/open virtualization software? (Xen, etc.) - Can I ask the virtual machine software to boot my physical Windows partition while in Linux without having to install a virtual Windows? Thanks, Marc -- Human knowledge belongs to the world. -- Teddy Chin in 'Antitrust' (ref: open source software) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 10:05:45 2008 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 06:05:45 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <4879EF52.1030309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>; from james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 08:04:34 -0400 References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> <20016.99.253.255.228.1215915941.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4879EF52.1030309@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080714100545.GA1939@localhost> On Sun Jul 13,2008 08:04:34 AM James Knott wrote: > FWIW, I've never seen a UART that actually stops the data on > hardware handshaking. Changing those status lines only change > status a bit and generate an interrupt. It's up to the software to > stop the data. Take a look at almost any modern UART chip. Almost all of them can be programmed for automatic flow control (hardware, software or both; inbound, outbound or both), handled by the UART itself. I some cases, the pins used for hardware flow, and the characters used for software flow can also be selected. Some also have the ability to be set to automatically toggle RTS when sending data, to control half-duplex transceivers for EIA-485, etc. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 11:44:40 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 07:44:40 -0400 Subject: Hooking up a SATA drive to a PATA motherboard In-Reply-To: <487AE0F5.80800-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <1216003433.6329.8.camel@aragorn> <487AE0F5.80800@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280807140444q9dd7389jab70523d9163ec37@mail.gmail.com> 2008/7/14 Meng Cheah : >> I recently purchased a PCI adapter card to hook up a recent 1TB SATA >> drive I purchased. I have a motherboard which is an ASUS A7 running an >> AMD Athlon processor. >> >> Problem is that adding the card means that all my PCI ports will be >> taken. It seems to matter, since adding the card makes the computer >> freeze on detection of the SATA card. >> >> Another potential cause of conflict is that I already had a PATA IDE >> raid card. I was wondering if getting one of those SATA adapters >> (converts a PATA to SATA port) was OK to put on to the RAID card. I >> already have one SATA power hookup attached to the power supply. >> >> Anyone got SATA to work on hardware that old? >> > > I tried a SATA drive with my ASUS K8N motherboard; no success. I got a 500Gb SATA HD about a year ago and tried using a Bytecc Serial ATA PCI card because I had an older Mobo (Gigabyte 7VT600-P-RZ). I chose that card because it has a Linux-supported chipset, but on big copies it would munge the file system every ten minutes or so. So the card and drive were detected and moved the data around, but didn't work properly. I'm now happily using the HD in an external USB case. The case is actually a Vantec with both USB and E-SATA should that ever become common, but I still use it as USB. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 12:27:18 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 08:27:18 -0400 Subject: Questions about gaming in Linux / virtualization In-Reply-To: <487AF321.3080609-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <487AF321.3080609@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807140527s6df7f2d9gba4aed89414f35e7@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:33 AM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > - What is the best free/open virtualization software? (Xen, etc.) I'm not sure if it's the best, but I've started using - and am really enjoying - Virtual Box. http://www.virtualbox.org/ > - Can I ask the virtual machine software to boot my physical Windows > partition while in Linux without having to install a virtual Windows? Not having tried it I'm not entirely sure, but I wouldn't be surprised. Give me a few hours and I'll let you know. :) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 13:04:32 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:04:32 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for a Wireless provider Message-ID: <487B4EE0.1050902@pppoe.ca> Hi A visitor asked me to suggest a wireless internet provider. She's from Japan and here for the summer, living in the Dupont/Ossington area and has a laptop. She has been using libraries and coffeshops. Any suggestions or recommendations? I'm going to check http://www.canadianisp.ca/ and Toronto Hydro's One Zone. Thanks in advance. Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 14:00:43 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:00:43 -0400 Subject: Questions about gaming in Linux / virtualization In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0807140527s6df7f2d9gba4aed89414f35e7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <487AF321.3080609@ualberta.ca> <99a6c38f0807140527s6df7f2d9gba4aed89414f35e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807140700j19b7613fvbfb66efc6f05a252@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 8:27 AM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:33 AM, Marc Lanctot wrote: [...] > http://www.virtualbox.org/ > >> - Can I ask the virtual machine software to boot my physical Windows >> partition while in Linux without having to install a virtual Windows? > > Not having tried it I'm not entirely sure, but I wouldn't be > surprised. Give me a few hours and I'll let you know. :) According to a thread* on the Virtual Box forums it is possible, at least with XP. Whether it's advisable seems open to debate; there are some specific issues that you'd need to keep in mind if you want to try it: - You'll need 2 hardware profiles - 1 for the dual-boot and 1 for the VM - Installing drivers from the VM may screw your Windows install up - Saving the VM state may screw your Windows install up This isn't a thorough summary so if you're interested please make sure your read the thread - in particular the responses from "kilou" - before trying it. Joining the forums and asking further questions there might not be a bad idea either. I can't risk my XP partition right now (the wife would be... upset, lol) so I'm not going to try it yet. Best of luck! * http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=2019&highlight=partition+dualboot or http://tinyurl.com/6zxlkh -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 10:55:37 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:55:37 +0000 Subject: Questions about gaming in Linux / virtualization In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0807140700j19b7613fvbfb66efc6f05a252-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <487AF321.3080609@ualberta.ca> <99a6c38f0807140527s6df7f2d9gba4aed89414f35e7@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f0807140700j19b7613fvbfb66efc6f05a252@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <487B30A9.4060309@utoronto.ca> Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 8:27 AM, Scott Elcomb wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:33 AM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > [...] >> http://www.virtualbox.org/ >> >>> - Can I ask the virtual machine software to boot my physical Windows >>> partition while in Linux without having to install a virtual Windows? >> Not having tried it I'm not entirely sure, but I wouldn't be >> surprised. Give me a few hours and I'll let you know. :) > > According to a thread* on the Virtual Box forums it is possible, at > least with XP. Whether it's advisable seems open to debate; there are > some specific issues that you'd need to keep in mind if you want to > try it: > > - You'll need 2 hardware profiles - 1 for the dual-boot and 1 for the VM > - Installing drivers from the VM may screw your Windows install up > - Saving the VM state may screw your Windows install up > > This isn't a thorough summary so if you're interested please make sure > your read the thread - in particular the responses from "kilou" - > before trying it. Joining the forums and asking further questions > there might not be a bad idea either. > > I can't risk my XP partition right now (the wife would be... upset, > lol) so I'm not going to try it yet. Best of luck! > > * http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=2019&highlight=partition+dualboot > or http://tinyurl.com/6zxlkh > Try using dd to take an image of the partition and boot the image? vmware, qemu, virtualbox etc. all either don't support or don't recommend booting physical partitions, esp. with windows as the hardware profile changes as Scott mentioned. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 15:06:05 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:06:05 -0400 Subject: Joe Barr RIP Message-ID: <487B6B5D.2030204@telly.org> Hi all, I'm not sure how many of you know Joe Barr, but many of you have read his words. Based in Austin, he was one of the few good Linux journalists out there; his style was both informative and exceptionally readable. I has a number of email exchanges with him and am the better for them. He will be missed. http://www.linux.com/feature/141548? - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 11:17:54 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:17:54 +0000 Subject: Recommendations for a Wireless provider In-Reply-To: <487B4EE0.1050902-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <487B4EE0.1050902@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <487B35E2.6070003@utoronto.ca> Meng Cheah wrote: > Hi > > A visitor asked me to suggest a wireless internet provider. > > She's from Japan and here for the summer, living in the Dupont/Ossington > area and has a laptop. > She has been using libraries and coffeshops. > > Any suggestions or recommendations? > I'm going to check http://www.canadianisp.ca/ and Toronto Hydro's One Zone. Try Wireless Nomad as well, they're terrific. They resell TekSavvy so you get excellent support too. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 15:28:01 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:28:01 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for a Wireless provider In-Reply-To: <487B35E2.6070003-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <487B4EE0.1050902@pppoe.ca> <487B35E2.6070003@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <487B7081.60007@pppoe.ca> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Meng Cheah wrote: >> Hi >> >> A visitor asked me to suggest a wireless internet provider. >> >> She's from Japan and here for the summer, living in the >> Dupont/Ossington area and has a laptop. >> She has been using libraries and coffeshops. >> >> Any suggestions or recommendations? >> I'm going to check http://www.canadianisp.ca/ and Toronto Hydro's One >> Zone. > > Try Wireless Nomad as well, they're terrific. They resell TekSavvy so > you get excellent support too. Thanks, Jamon. Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 15:47:09 2008 From: meng-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Meng Cheah) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:47:09 -0400 Subject: Recommendations for a Wireless provider In-Reply-To: <487B4EE0.1050902-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <487B4EE0.1050902@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <487B74FD.1090704@pppoe.ca> Meng Cheah wrote: > Hi > > A visitor asked me to suggest a wireless internet provider. > > She's from Japan and here for the summer, living in the > Dupont/Ossington area and has a laptop. > She has been using libraries and coffeshops. > > Any suggestions or recommendations? > I'm going to check http://www.canadianisp.ca/ and Toronto Hydro's One > Zone. FYI I just checked with One Zone. Toronto Hydro's One Zone coverage ends just west of Bathurst at present. The Dupont/Ossington area is out of the covered area. Regards Meng -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 19:28:59 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:28:59 -0400 Subject: Hooking up a SATA drive to a PATA motherboard In-Reply-To: <1216003433.6329.8.camel@aragorn> References: <1216003433.6329.8.camel@aragorn> Message-ID: <20080714192859.GU31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 10:43:53PM -0400, Paul King wrote: > I recently purchased a PCI adapter card to hook up a recent 1TB SATA > drive I purchased. I have a motherboard which is an ASUS A7 running an > AMD Athlon processor. > > Problem is that adding the card means that all my PCI ports will be > taken. It seems to matter, since adding the card makes the computer > freeze on detection of the SATA card. > > Another potential cause of conflict is that I already had a PATA IDE > raid card. I was wondering if getting one of those SATA adapters > (converts a PATA to SATA port) was OK to put on to the RAID card. I > already have one SATA power hookup attached to the power supply. > > Anyone got SATA to work on hardware that old? Will there is no A7 board. There are lots of A7* boards though. If the board has an onboard raid controller you may have to disable that in the bios to allow the add in card to work. I have certainly seen that on some boards. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 19:51:58 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:51:58 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu RAM detection In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807131357n3cf701ceq8b789682da9f90da-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807131357n3cf701ceq8b789682da9f90da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080714195158.GV31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 04:57:14PM -0400, Tyler Aviss wrote: > only find about 1GB when linux is booted up? Ubuntu 8/32-bit, > self-rolled 2.6.25.9 kernel, on Dual-core Athlon 64. Various apps > including "Top" etc only show about a gig of RAM. Not sure if this has > something to do with running a 32-bit OS on 64-bit hardware (doubt it, > I'm under the 4GB/CPU limit), something weird with the > SMP/memory-sharing, (64-bit memory & IO resources not enabled in > kernel), or some other issue? If you run 32bit, then the kernel is limited to 900MB if no HIGHMEM support is enabled. 4GB setting allows up to about 3.2GB, and 64GB setting allows up to 62 or 63GB or so, while anymore than that requires 64bit kernel. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 20:13:25 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:13:25 -0400 Subject: Questions about gaming in Linux / virtualization In-Reply-To: <487AF321.3080609-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <487AF321.3080609@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20080714201325.GW31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:33:05AM -0600, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I have a dual-boot Windows XP / Ubuntu Linux machine but I hardly ever > use the Windows partition. > > I'd like to play the new MTG Online III by Wizards of the Coast, but I > really don't want to reboot every time to do this because I'd like to > play for 5-10 min at a time here-and-there in work lulls. Cedega has it > listed as a 3/5 compatibility rating so it's not worth using that. I > tried Wine and it just didn't start (after installation). This game > shouldn't be too demanding the graphics end, so now I'm thinking of > running it through a virtual PC running Windows. > > My questions are: > > - Is there a better route other than what I tried above to play the game > in Linux? > > - What is the best free/open virtualization software? (Xen, etc.) > > - Can I ask the virtual machine software to boot my physical Windows > partition while in Linux without having to install a virtual Windows? Virtualization won't let you use the video card as far as I know, so know 3D accaleration, which makes that idea useless pretty much. It's pretty much down to wine or native. No other choices if it requires 3D graphics. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 20:29:37 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:29:37 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20080713014747.GB29319-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20080714202937.GX31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 09:47:47PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > One embarressing "oops"; I didn't order a built-in PCI modem card for > a Dell. Apparently, them thar new-fangled machines don't got no serial > port. So much for my faithfull USR X2 external modem. I suppose I'm > looking at getting a PCI card retail. Or are there any other dialup > solutions. I use dialup as emergency backup. It's really nice to have > when I need it. > > Are there any other dialup options in the brave new world of > computing? I have 1 free PCI slot in the machine. Well you could get a PCI serial card with linux support and use your external modem, or you could get a USR5610C (or USR265610C in canada apparently). http://www.usr.com/products/modem/modem-product.asp?sku=USR5610c -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 20:30:35 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:30:35 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <48796167.5090404-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <48796167.5090404@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20080714203035.GY31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 09:59:03PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: > You could always get a USB to Serial adapter. Last I checked these and > their printer counter parts are reasonably well supported in Linux. Parallel is simple. The serial ones are tricky and involve firmware in some cases. It really comes down to which chip is inside. PL2032 I think is the name of a common chip which does work with linux, but isn't great in terms of latency. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 20:31:54 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:31:54 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <4879EF52.1030309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> <20016.99.253.255.228.1215915941.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4879EF52.1030309@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080714203154.GZ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 08:04:34AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > FWIW, I've never seen a UART that actually stops the data on hardware > handshaking. Changing those status lines only change status a bit and > generate an interrupt. It's up to the software to stop the data. I have. Very useful. An if nothing else software will stop (it better). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 20:32:35 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:32:35 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <4879F059.8070607-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <23198.99.253.255.228.1215919122.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <4879F059.8070607@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080714203235.GA31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 08:08:57AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > >Don't know. But I did use a USB-DB9 adaptor to interface to a multimeter > > > Argghhh!!! That's DE9, not DB9! ;-) Yes we know, and no we don't really care. :) It's turned to ROM by now. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 17:43:04 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:43:04 +0000 Subject: Questions about gaming in Linux / virtualization In-Reply-To: <20080714201325.GW31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <487AF321.3080609@ualberta.ca> <20080714201325.GW31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <487B9028.1060408@utoronto.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:33:05AM -0600, Marc Lanctot wrote: >> I have a dual-boot Windows XP / Ubuntu Linux machine but I hardly ever >> use the Windows partition. >> >> I'd like to play the new MTG Online III by Wizards of the Coast, but I >> really don't want to reboot every time to do this because I'd like to >> play for 5-10 min at a time here-and-there in work lulls. Cedega has it >> listed as a 3/5 compatibility rating so it's not worth using that. I >> tried Wine and it just didn't start (after installation). This game >> shouldn't be too demanding the graphics end, so now I'm thinking of >> running it through a virtual PC running Windows. >> >> My questions are: >> >> - Is there a better route other than what I tried above to play the game >> in Linux? >> >> - What is the best free/open virtualization software? (Xen, etc.) >> >> - Can I ask the virtual machine software to boot my physical Windows >> partition while in Linux without having to install a virtual Windows? > > Virtualization won't let you use the video card as far as I know, so > know 3D accaleration, which makes that idea useless pretty much. Vmware 6.5 beta uses full DX9 acceleration (or at least they advertise it as such, haven't used it, nor do I care to). Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 21:46:13 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:46:13 -0400 Subject: Questions about gaming in Linux / virtualization In-Reply-To: <20080714201325.GW31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <487AF321.3080609@ualberta.ca> <20080714201325.GW31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807141446j67d4a07cq74183b849053fbb7@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Virtualization won't let you use the video card as far as I know, so > know 3D accaleration, which makes that idea useless pretty much. > > It's pretty much down to wine or native. No other choices if it > requires 3D graphics. The VirtualBox wiki has a comparisons page that shows it doesn't support 3D acceleration. It does mention that VMware has limited support for it. http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VBox_vs_Others If 3D support is required then VMware Workstation 5 might be the way to go - a couple of search results explain how to load existing OS installations into VM's and how to setup 3D for Windows VM's: http://www.vmware.com/support/ws5/doc/ws_vidsound_d3d_enabling_vm.html http://www.vmware.com/support/ws5/doc/ws_disk_dualboot.html I've used Workstation 5 and was very pleased with it. VirtualBox became my virtualizer of choice simply because it's FOSS. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 01:01:38 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 21:01:38 -0400 Subject: Questions about gaming in Linux / virtualization In-Reply-To: <487AF321.3080609-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <487AF321.3080609@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807141801y600798c3wf62a22db5ccc314f@mail.gmail.com> You know, while I'd love to support the Wine project a little more in this, the little incompatibilities have kept me coming back to Cedega despite the various issues I have run into with it here and there. It does a fairly decent job on many games, and the newest version (which is apparently Beta, though that wasn't obvious until it was already installed, one of those issues...) works on a bunch of games that didn't work previously. What's in the 3/5 compatibility rating? I've played games that were 3.5-4 and the major obstacles were often the fancier graphics features, so depending on whether it's listed as working it might still do the job for you. - TJA On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:33 AM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > Hello, > > I have a dual-boot Windows XP / Ubuntu Linux machine but I hardly ever use > the Windows partition. > > I'd like to play the new MTG Online III by Wizards of the Coast, but I > really don't want to reboot every time to do this because I'd like to play > for 5-10 min at a time here-and-there in work lulls. Cedega has it listed > as a 3/5 compatibility rating so it's not worth using that. I tried Wine and > it just didn't start (after installation). This game shouldn't be too > demanding the graphics end, so now I'm thinking of running it through a > virtual PC running Windows. > > My questions are: > > - Is there a better route other than what I tried above to play the game in > Linux? > > - What is the best free/open virtualization software? (Xen, etc.) > > - Can I ask the virtual machine software to boot my physical Windows > partition while in Linux without having to install a virtual Windows? > > Thanks, > Marc > > -- > Human knowledge belongs to the world. > -- Teddy Chin in 'Antitrust' (ref: open source software) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 15:03:48 2008 From: ken-8VyUGRzHQ8IsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ken Burtch) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: LoneCoder: Project Mis-Management: TaskJuggler Drops the Ball Message-ID: My latest blog entry, this one on the open source TaskJuggler software. "Project management--that is, the attempt to organize resources and people to meet a common goal--is a bit of a sham. TaskJuggler takes traditional project management to the point of fanaticism. "At work the other day, I was bemused when one of the IT staff walked into a boardroom, took a marker, and wrote with large letters, 'WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE SO DAMN HARD?' When I asked what his problem was, he said, 'Project managers...'" http://www.pegasoft.ca/coder/coder_july_2008.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 23:42:22 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:42:22 -0600 Subject: [OT] Software Legalities (GPL, Intellectual Property, and more..) Message-ID: <487BE45E.6020507@ualberta.ca> Hi, First I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my last email about gaming in Linux / virtualization. I have been building OpenMTG, a free and open-source (GPL-licensed) program I intend to be a free version of the popular Magic: The Gathering collectible card game. It is similar to Firemox but different in design and architecture, though I might just fork Firemox depending on what happens. Eventually, I plan to allow people to play it online via applets and building a community where people can play against each other, quite like the existing Magic: Online game but totally free and open source (using virtual money). I intend to use it for my research too. Everyone I've told this idea to says that Wizards of the Coast will never let me get away with it. That sucks. I'd like to know how they can prevent me from doing it. Other than obvious statements like "they have money and therefore good lawyers", I'd like to know the actual legal issues this would cause, and how I can prevent any problems if possible. I've seen things like this been done... eg. Wargus & Freecraft, Freeciv, and Firemox is still going. Brettspielwelt has many free games, so does Richard Rognlie's popular PBeM server. If these people can circumvent the legal issues, why couldn't I? Should I just abandon the idea altogether? Thanks in advance, Marc -- Black holes are where God divided by zero. -- Steven Wright -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 12:48:59 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:48:59 -0400 Subject: Questions about gaming in Linux / virtualization In-Reply-To: <487B9028.1060408-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <487AF321.3080609@ualberta.ca> <20080714201325.GW31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <487B9028.1060408@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20080715124859.GB31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 05:43:04PM +0000, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Vmware 6.5 beta uses full DX9 acceleration (or at least they advertise > it as such, haven't used it, nor do I care to). Wow, I hadn't looked at the workstation beta. That is pretty impressive if the performance is good. On the other hand that could be very bad for my productivity at home too. Also impresive is the SAS emulation with hot plug disk support on supported guests as well as hot plug cpu and ram for linux and win2k8 guests. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 15:37:26 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:37:26 -0400 Subject: [OT] Software Legalities (GPL, Intellectual Property, and more..) In-Reply-To: <487BE45E.6020507-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <487BE45E.6020507@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20080715153726.GA13899@watson-wilson.ca> You should consult a lawyer. Regardless of whether or not a defendant is in the right the plaintiff can still bury them in legal fees. This justice by attrition is popular amongst corporations. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 15:53:22 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:53:22 -0400 Subject: [OT] Software Legalities (GPL, Intellectual Property, and more..) In-Reply-To: <487BE45E.6020507-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <487BE45E.6020507@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807150853v246ad784qd8c9c85f3e9a9528@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:42 PM, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I have been building OpenMTG, a free and open-source (GPL-licensed) program > I intend to be a free version of the popular Magic: The Gathering > collectible card game. It is similar to Firemox but different in design and > architecture, though I might just fork Firemox depending on what happens. Is OpenMTG a generic engine? Is the game logic specific to MTG, or does it support logic for other games (like Firemox does)? > Everyone I've told this idea to says that Wizards of the Coast will never > let me get away with it. That sucks. I'd like to know how they can prevent > me from doing it. Other than obvious statements like "they have money and > therefore good lawyers", I'd like to know the actual legal issues this would > cause, and how I can prevent any problems if possible. I've seen things > like this been done... eg. Wargus & Freecraft, Freeciv, and Firemox is still > going. Brettspielwelt has many free games, so does Richard Rognlie's popular > PBeM server. If these people can circumvent the legal issues, why couldn't > I? Should I just abandon the idea altogether? I've been a fan of the collectible-trading-card gaming genre since it's conception. When MTG first came out all my friends knew I was hyped and a few got me a bunch of starter packs. Not MTG mind you, but Spellfire* which I still consider a superior game. Anyway, over the years I prototyped a few games in this style. If you're not stuck on MTG and don't want to get into it with the lawyers, I'd be happy to offer some of my ideas and logic from my ideas for your project. I don't have the physical prototypes or notes any longer, but would be happy to recreate them for you. * http://www.spellfire.net/ -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 16:01:38 2008 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT] Software Legalities (GPL, Intellectual Property, and more..) Message-ID: <958788.95017.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Everyone I've told this idea to says that Wizards of the Coast will > never let me get away with it. That sucks. I'd like to know how they can > prevent me from doing it. Other than obvious statements like "they have > money and therefore good lawyers", I'd like to know the actual legal > issues this would cause, and how I can prevent any problems if possible. Wizards of the Coast own (trademark and copyright?) the content you'd be using to build this. Using their gaming and world system without a licence is an infringement. Would they come after you? Probably, I have a friend who works at a similar place and they are very serious about protecting their system. -Matthew -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 14 18:57:06 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:57:06 +0000 Subject: Questions about gaming in Linux / virtualization In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0807141446j67d4a07cq74183b849053fbb7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <487AF321.3080609@ualberta.ca> <20080714201325.GW31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0807141446j67d4a07cq74183b849053fbb7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <487BA182.60206@utoronto.ca> Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: >> Virtualization won't let you use the video card as far as I know, so >> know 3D accaleration, which makes that idea useless pretty much. >> >> It's pretty much down to wine or native. No other choices if it >> requires 3D graphics. > > The VirtualBox wiki has a comparisons page that shows it doesn't > support 3D acceleration. It does mention that VMware has limited > support for it. > > http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VBox_vs_Others > > If 3D support is required then VMware Workstation 5 might be the way > to go - a couple of search results explain how to load existing OS > installations into VM's and how to setup 3D for Windows VM's: > > http://www.vmware.com/support/ws5/doc/ws_vidsound_d3d_enabling_vm.html > http://www.vmware.com/support/ws5/doc/ws_disk_dualboot.html > > I've used Workstation 5 and was very pleased with it. VirtualBox > became my virtualizer of choice simply because it's FOSS. > Note the section on this page dealing with 3-D and the 6.5 beta: http://www.vmware.com/products/beta/ws/releasenotes_ws65_beta.html#features "Accelerated 3-D graphics on Windows XP guests ? Workstation 6.5 virtual machines now work with applications that use DirectX 9 accelerated graphics with shaders up through Shader Model 2.0 on Windows XP guests. Hosts can be running Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, or Linux." Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 00:26:07 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:26:07 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu RAM detection In-Reply-To: <20080714195158.GV31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807131357n3cf701ceq8b789682da9f90da@mail.gmail.com> <20080714195158.GV31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807141726u3e0b8e8fpc61d637e5dd31db0@mail.gmail.com> Doh! Thanks for the reminder, high-mem support was off rather than at 4GB like it should have been. It's weird because I'm fairly sure that my previous kernel incarnations had high memory working fine but I must have done something dumb during one of up the updates :-) Thanks for the reminder, I'm recompiling now so I'd imagine that will fix the issue. Cheers, TJA On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 04:57:14PM -0400, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> only find about 1GB when linux is booted up? Ubuntu 8/32-bit, >> self-rolled 2.6.25.9 kernel, on Dual-core Athlon 64. Various apps >> including "Top" etc only show about a gig of RAM. Not sure if this has >> something to do with running a 32-bit OS on 64-bit hardware (doubt it, >> I'm under the 4GB/CPU limit), something weird with the >> SMP/memory-sharing, (64-bit memory & IO resources not enabled in >> kernel), or some other issue? > > If you run 32bit, then the kernel is limited to 900MB if no HIGHMEM > support is enabled. 4GB setting allows up to about 3.2GB, and 64GB > setting allows up to 62 or 63GB or so, while anymore than that requires > 64bit kernel. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 16:12:12 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:12:12 -0400 Subject: [OT]: Journey 3D - Where in Southern Ontario? Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807150912v78299408n9ae9175a45cc5cc5@mail.gmail.com> Just curious - anyone know where Journey To The Center Of The Earth is playing, in 3D, here in Ontario? I've been googling around, but despite my best efforts, haven't found a list of locations. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From walterdnes-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 03:49:39 2008 From: walterdnes-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:49:39 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <487964AA.2070702-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080715034939.GA21774@waltdnes.org> Thanks to everybody who replied On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 10:12:58PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote > There are some USB solutions, that have the advantage that they can > also work on laptops I'm looking at getting an ASUS EEE one of these days. So that's a consideration. > (or desktops that will soon ship without regular PCI either) Huh??? Are all add-ons supposed to be USB? And how are video cards going to be handled (assuming you don't want to settle for the onboard video chip)? > and can easily be moved from one system to another (which may be > useful considering that this is a backup system). That's another advantage. A lot easier than taking the cover off each time. And my current machine has only 2 PCI slots, 1 of which is already spoken for by a video card. And even that is recent. When I got the machine last summer, there wasn't a working standard driver for the onboard Intel ethernet chip, so I got cheap Via Rhine card, which used up the remaining slot. I've got the built-in chip working now, which has freed up the slot. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 18:18:00 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:18:00 -0400 Subject: OT: APC Batteries Message-ID: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> Hello All, A customer of mine has several APC UPSs that need new batteries that they are giving away. Is it worth it to source new batteries for these UPSs? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 18:20:06 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:20:06 -0400 Subject: OT: APC Batteries In-Reply-To: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> References: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> Message-ID: <20080715182006.GA17190@watson-wilson.ca> I believe that the batteries are inexpensive compared to the entire unit. You may even find that Radio Shack stocks them. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 18:21:10 2008 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution Message-ID: <792580.96598.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >> (or desktops that will soon ship without regular PCI either) > > Huh??? Are all add-ons supposed to be USB? And how are video cards > going to be handled (assuming you don't want to settle for the onboard > video chip)? Modern PC motherboards have been using AGP for video cards for quite a few years now. However, your comment is still legit as there are many other add-in cards that one may wish to add to their system. Case in point: - fancier sound cards - IO device controllers - usb/etc expansion boards -M -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 00:26:53 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:26:53 -0400 Subject: Deep freeze for linux Message-ID: <3a97ef0807141726m74dd154dg988e8582b9a04b7d@mail.gmail.com> I really do wonder who would use this... http://www.faronics.com/html/DFLinux.asp I can't really see much use for it in a proper permissions-secure environment. -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 18:44:47 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:44:47 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <792580.96598.qm-4fJJQiRtypeB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <792580.96598.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <487CF01F.9080607@telly.org> Matthew Godycki wrote: > Modern PC motherboards have been using AGP for video cards for quite a > few years now. However, your comment is still legit as there are many other > add-in cards that one may wish to add to their system. Case in point: > - fancier sound cards > - IO device controllers > - usb/etc expansion boards > Two words: PCI Express. Welcome to your next generation of plug-in card obsolescence. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 18:46:49 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:46:49 -0400 Subject: OT: APC Batteries In-Reply-To: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> References: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> Message-ID: <487CF099.7000406@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Hello All, > > A customer of mine has several APC UPSs that need new batteries that > they are giving away. Is it worth it to source new batteries for these UPSs? > A new battery is cheaper than a new UPS, so if it's working fine otherwise, get a new battery. One source is this place: http://www.magnacharge.com/index.html They're located near near Dixie and Britannia and they take back the old batteries. There's a link to them from the APC site. BTW, some people find a Yamaha motorcycle battery fits. While it may fit, it's the wrong battery type for the job and so not a good idea. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 18:50:18 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:50:18 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20080715034939.GA21774-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> <20080715034939.GA21774@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Thanks to everybody who replied > > On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 10:12:58PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote > >> There are some USB solutions, that have the advantage that they can >> also work on laptops > > I'm looking at getting an ASUS EEE one of these days. So that's a > consideration. > >> (or desktops that will soon ship without regular PCI either) > > Huh??? Are all add-ons supposed to be USB? And how are video cards > going to be handled (assuming you don't want to settle for the onboard > video chip)? Well, consider that Apple deployed the "Air" laptop which only has physical connections for: a) power b) USB Note that that does NOT include an Ethernet connection; to get on a network, you either go wireless, or use a USB-based Ethernet adaptor. These strike me as reasons to prefer not to buy an "Apple Air" laptop, but that's not the point. The point is that there are indeed products out there where the intent is, indeed, that you don't have a zillion kinds of interfaces, and pointedly don't have a PCI/AGP bus connection to play with. That almost always the case with laptops, today; you get to use the GPU that was bundled with the laptop, and if you want something else, then you basically need to look for another laptop. For this to happen to desktop machines should not come as a staggering surprise. There has already been considerable tendancy in this direction; motherboards now frequently (perhaps mostly?) include the graphics support. Increasingly, it's only if you want a graphics card so powerful that it adds so much power consumption and heat dissipation that it would melt the motherboard that you have a separate graphics card :-). This shouldn't come as a shock or surprise or as *totally* appalling to us; running X across a 10BaseT connection has been a perfectly reasonable idea since before they had 100BaseT :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 19:00:14 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:00:14 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <792580.96598.qm-4fJJQiRtypeB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <792580.96598.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 7/15/08, Matthew Godycki wrote: >>> (or desktops that will soon ship without regular PCI either) >> Huh??? Are all add-ons supposed to be USB? And how are video cards >> going to be handled (assuming you don't want to settle for the onboard >> video chip)? > > Modern PC motherboards have been using AGP for video cards for quite a > few years now. However, your comment is still legit as there are many other > add-in cards that one may wish to add to their system. Case in point: > - fancier sound cards > - IO device controllers > - usb/etc expansion boards > > -M Well, AGP is for all practical purposes DEAD (yes, you can still find a few old motherboard designs still for sale with AGP, but none of the new stuff has AGP). What is taking over PCI-Express, that is what the gamers and other high video performance junkies are are using... To note, there are USB --> video adapters on the market, but all the reviews I have seen suggest that at least of the ones reviewed, the performance is ... not so good... For the forseeable future there will be an enthusiast market driven by the likes of the gamers that will keep the likes of PCI-Express slots for $500 video cards alive. Further there is a market for PCs in the industrial market that should also keep the expansion slot business going... This noted, there is, and likely will continue to be a very solid market for the appliance PCs, the sort of PC sold to grannies where the case will never be opened over the life of the PC, or sold to companies that need a basic task oriented box for clerical staff (where the IT staff doesn't want staff fiddling with the box...)... Further with the task oriented PCs cost is an important factor, so if dropping a few expansion slots lets them cut $10 off the cost of the system that will be a big sales boost. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 19:09:31 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:09:31 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20080715034939.GA21774-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> <20080715034939.GA21774@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <487CF5EB.1090309@telly.org> Walter Dnes wrote: >> There are some USB solutions, that have the advantage that they can >> also work on laptops >> > > I'm looking at getting an ASUS EEE one of these days. So that's a > consideration. > The USB-Serial adaptors look to be the cheapest answer, but the clumsiest (you'll need the adaptor as well as a DB9-DB25 cable to use with your modem). A USB modem will be more expensive, but more compact, more portable and more energy efficient (as most of these modems can draw power from the USB, compared to your sportster which needs its own brick). >> (or desktops that will soon ship without regular PCI either) >> > > Huh??? Are all add-ons supposed to be USB? And how are video cards > going to be handled (assuming you don't want to settle for the onboard > video chip)? > As I mentioned, PCI-Express is quickly obsoleting both conventional PCI (no compatibility) and AGP. Many vendors are trying to standardize on USB for external, PCIe for internal. Many new systems and motherboards come with at least one or two PCIe slots for RAID, enhanced audio and video. Many other (and most slower) devices are going the USB route which is why it is not uncommon to find four or more ports on modern desktops (in addition to ports for modern mice and keyboards which are already USB). Heck, even the EeePC has room for three, and it already has its own KB and mouse.... - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 19:15:46 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:15:46 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <487CF5EB.1090309-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> <20080715034939.GA21774@waltdnes.org> <487CF5EB.1090309@telly.org> Message-ID: <487CF762.6070703@rogers.com> > The USB-Serial adaptors look to be the cheapest answer, but the > clumsiest (you'll need the adaptor as well as a DB9-DB25 cable to use > with your modem). A USB modem will be more expensive, but more compact, > more portable and more energy efficient (as most of these modems can > draw power from the USB, compared to your sportster which needs its own > brick). You can also get a DE9 to DB25 adapter but just make sure you get a USB serial port adapter with a long enough cable. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 15 21:31:04 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:31:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Deep freeze for linux In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807141726m74dd154dg988e8582b9a04b7d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807141726m74dd154dg988e8582b9a04b7d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Jul 2008, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I really do wonder who would use this... > > http://www.faronics.com/html/DFLinux.asp > > I can't really see much use for it in a proper permissions-secure environment. IMHO there are better ways of dealing with system management like not giving users root access in the first place. Developers can have root on their dev boxes of course - but the idea of developing on the same box you use to access the 'net (generally your workstation) has always struck me as counter-productive. You want your access to the net to be rock solid - exactly what a dev box isn't. With near univeral access to the network and virtualisation technologies there is no need to tie development to the box you happen to be physically near. Where I work now I have setup a virtual dev environment (using OpenVZ) so developers can have a new dev box shortly after asking for it, and they can work from the office, home or elsewhere over the VPN. No problem. Like a lot of other commercial products DeepFreezeLinux strikes me as an MS-Windows focused tool which has been ported to Linux. Some might find it useful but it isn't for me. A lot of the time people use Linux on the desktop the way they use MS-Windows. The Linux approach is alot more flexible than that (and to give it some credit, MS-Win has caught up a little bit in recent years). I can ssh in to dozens of boxes transparently[1] from my thin client. Thus my computing environment becomes a network rather than a computer. Future OSes are going to move even further in this direction but what we can do now is pretty good. Even carrying a laptop within a city will be a thing of the past one day. As time goes on the range in which this is feasible will continue to grow. Yeah I went off on a tangent a bit but all too often I feel that the limitation on using computers is a lack of imagination. [1] ie, without entering a password or passphrase, thanks to ssh-agent. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 00:37:59 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:37:59 -0400 Subject: OT: APC Batteries In-Reply-To: <487CF099.7000406-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> <487CF099.7000406@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1f13df280807151737k15378ah139ec15ecd0d243a@mail.gmail.com> 2008/7/15 James Knott : > Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> A customer of mine has several APC UPSs that need new batteries that they >> are giving away. Is it worth it to source new batteries for these UPSs? >> > > A new battery is cheaper than a new UPS, so if it's working fine otherwise, > get a new battery. One source is this place: > http://www.magnacharge.com/index.html > > They're located near near Dixie and Britannia and they take back the old > batteries. There's a link to them from the APC site. > > BTW, some people find a Yamaha motorcycle battery fits. While it may fit, > it's the wrong battery type for the job and so not a good idea. I have an older APC BackUPS ES 500 that was down to a functional time of about 20 seconds with a computer that wasn't even sucking down much power. A friend of mine found me an identical size battery for $20 and the UPS is now working fine. The battery is very easy to change. It did look like a motorcycle battery and is, to the best of my limited knowledge, a sealed lead-acid battery. What's the difference between that and a motorcycle battery? Ansar, if you want me to find out where my friend got the battery, contact me off-list. I'm just posting to say "it's easy to do and almost certainly worth it." -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 01:13:28 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:13:28 -0400 Subject: Compile asks for ALSA Message-ID: <1f13df280807151813q2152c005q90b8abd0aea1a8df@mail.gmail.com> I'm trying to compile powermated (http://sourceforge.net/projects/powermated/ to go with my Griffin Powermate) on a Debian amd64 system. To forestall some other suggestions: I'm aware that powermated development is discontinued in favour of gizmod, but I've had nothing but bad luck with gizmod: it will recognize input from the device but not act on it. I've had that on a couple machines. Powermated works nicely and I'd like to use it for a bit longer. ./configure stalls out with this error: ... [ lots of "checking for ... yes" snipped ] checking for pthread_create in -lpthread... yes checking for snd_mixer_open in -lasound... no configure: error: You must have ALSA Installed! Of course I have ALSA installed. I have the package that provides the "alsamixer" binary but it's evidently not looking for that either. I assume the reason I can't find alsa*-dev packages for Debian is because ALSA is now in the kernel. I've installed kernel source to match my running kernel binary, but that was a stretch and didn't work. Hints or work-arounds accepted! If more information would be useful, please let me know. If anyone is happily using gizmod I'd love to talk to you (I know I have to use it eventually). -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 01:13:49 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:13:49 -0400 Subject: OT: APC Batteries In-Reply-To: <1f13df280807151737k15378ah139ec15ecd0d243a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> <487CF099.7000406@rogers.com> <1f13df280807151737k15378ah139ec15ecd0d243a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 7/15/08, Giles Orr wrote: > 2008/7/15 James Knott : >> Ansar Mohammed wrote: >>> A customer of mine has several APC UPSs that need new batteries that they >>> are giving away. Is it worth it to source new batteries for these UPSs? >> >> A new battery is cheaper than a new UPS, so if it's working fine >> otherwise, >> get a new battery. One source is this place: >> http://www.magnacharge.com/index.html >> >> They're located near near Dixie and Britannia and they take back the old >> batteries. There's a link to them from the APC site. >> >> BTW, some people find a Yamaha motorcycle battery fits. While it may fit, >> it's the wrong battery type for the job and so not a good idea. > > I have an older APC BackUPS ES 500 that was down to a functional time > of about 20 seconds with a computer that wasn't even sucking down much > power. A friend of mine found me an identical size battery for $20 > and the UPS is now working fine. The battery is very easy to change. > It did look like a motorcycle battery and is, to the best of my > limited knowledge, a sealed lead-acid battery. What's the difference > between that and a motorcycle battery? With standard motorcycle (or car) batteries, you're looking at a battery that can deliver a large amount of current for fairly short periods of time (just long enough to get the vehicle started). A motorcycle battery will very seldom (if ever) be completely discharged. With UPS batteries (or batteries for things like electric golf carts), the battery is designed to be more-or-less completely discharged on a more-or-less regular basis. I gather the key difference is that "deep discharge batteries" need to have tougher/thicker lead plates than "starter batteries". > Ansar, if you want me to find out where my friend got the battery, > contact me off-list. I'm just posting to say "it's easy to do and > almost certainly worth it." Well, Above-All Electronics near Bloor and Bathurst carries some small sealed lead acid batteries, some of which could work with some UPS (note, anyone who remembers Above-All from say 5+ years ago should know that they have moved, a handfull of doors west...). Colin McGregor > -- > Giles > http://www.gilesorr.com/ > gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 01:21:20 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:21:20 -0400 Subject: OT: APC Batteries In-Reply-To: <1f13df280807151737k15378ah139ec15ecd0d243a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> <487CF099.7000406@rogers.com> <1f13df280807151737k15378ah139ec15ecd0d243a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <487D4D10.8050207@rogers.com> Giles Orr wrote: > 2008/7/15 James Knott : > >> Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> >>> A customer of mine has several APC UPSs that need new batteries that they >>> are giving away. Is it worth it to source new batteries for these UPSs? >>> >>> >> A new battery is cheaper than a new UPS, so if it's working fine otherwise, >> get a new battery. One source is this place: >> http://www.magnacharge.com/index.html >> >> They're located near near Dixie and Britannia and they take back the old >> batteries. There's a link to them from the APC site. >> >> BTW, some people find a Yamaha motorcycle battery fits. While it may fit, >> it's the wrong battery type for the job and so not a good idea. >> > > I have an older APC BackUPS ES 500 that was down to a functional time > of about 20 seconds with a computer that wasn't even sucking down much > power. A friend of mine found me an identical size battery for $20 > and the UPS is now working fine. The battery is very easy to change. > It did look like a motorcycle battery and is, to the best of my > limited knowledge, a sealed lead-acid battery. What's the difference > between that and a motorcycle battery? > > It's the duty cycle they're designed for. A motorcycle battery is designed for large, but brief surges of power. On the other hand, a UPS battery is designed for deep discharge at a lower rate. Using the wrong battery type will result in decreased life and poor service. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 02:15:15 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:15:15 -0600 Subject: Compile asks for ALSA In-Reply-To: <1f13df280807151813q2152c005q90b8abd0aea1a8df-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280807151813q2152c005q90b8abd0aea1a8df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <487D59B3.8040101@ualberta.ca> Giles Orr wrote: > ./configure stalls out with this error: > > ... [ lots of "checking for ... yes" snipped ] > checking for pthread_create in -lpthread... yes > checking for snd_mixer_open in -lasound... no > configure: error: You must have ALSA Installed! > > Of course I have ALSA installed. I have the package that provides the > "alsamixer" binary but it's evidently not looking for that either. I > assume the reason I can't find alsa*-dev packages for Debian is > because ALSA is now in the kernel. I've installed kernel source to > match my running kernel binary, but that was a stretch and didn't > work. Hints or work-arounds accepted! If more information would be > useful, please let me know. I had to deal with this recently for a different reason... ah yes, now I remember.. I was building VICE from scratch. I seem to remember there being ALSA dev packages a while back.. anyway, what worked for me was to install the asound dev packages: lanctot at gravid:trunk% apt-cache search asound | grep dev lib64asound2-dev - ALSA library development files (64 bit) libasound2-dev - ALSA library development files libasound2-doc - ALSA library developer documentation libalsa-ocaml-dev - OCaml bindings for the ALSA library libecasound2.2-dev - development files for ecasound libecasoundc2.2-dev - c binding files for ecasound (devel) libkvutils2.2-dev - kvutils library required for ecasound - development lanctot at gravid:trunk% My guess is that asound is related to ALSA? Sorry that I can't give a better explanation but installing asound2-dev worked for me. (The package names might be slightly differ because I did this after a new Ubuntu install) Marc -- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mohandas Ghandi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 02:21:47 2008 From: dbmacg-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:21:47 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <487CF762.6070703-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487CF5EB.1090309@telly.org> <487CF762.6070703@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200807152221.48434.dbmacg@look.ca> I use a 486 as a dial-up router. It has a modem card and a NIC card and 16mb, which is sufficient to run Freesco , a small Linux distribution that boots from floppy and runs in the 16mb. There is a both telnet and an HTML interface to it. I have used PCi and ISA hardware modems over the years. My other machines connect to the dial-up using RJ45 connections. Also, I have a wireless router set up to accommodate my kids' laptops. The laptops connect wirelessly through to the dial-up router to go out to the world. The 486 is sacrificial. Several previous modems have been fried by lightning, apparently because of poorly implemented Bell grounding practices. Dunc On July 15, 2008 03:15:46 pm James Knott wrote: > > The USB-Serial adaptors look to be the cheapest answer, but the > > clumsiest (you'll need the adaptor as well as a DB9-DB25 cable to use > > with your modem). A USB modem will be more expensive, but more compact, > > more portable and more energy efficient (as most of these modems can > > draw power from the USB, compared to your sportster which needs its own > > brick). > > You can also get a DE9 to DB25 adapter but just make sure you get a USB > serial port adapter with a long enough cable. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 02:36:49 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:36:49 -0400 Subject: Compile asks for ALSA In-Reply-To: <487D59B3.8040101-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280807151813q2152c005q90b8abd0aea1a8df@mail.gmail.com> <487D59B3.8040101@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280807151936h10c1ba4at2f88fc8a3baebd3c@mail.gmail.com> 2008/7/15 Marc Lanctot : > Giles Orr wrote: > >> ./configure stalls out with this error: >> >> ... [ lots of "checking for ... yes" snipped ] >> checking for pthread_create in -lpthread... yes >> checking for snd_mixer_open in -lasound... no >> configure: error: You must have ALSA Installed! >> >> Of course I have ALSA installed. I have the package that provides the >> "alsamixer" binary but it's evidently not looking for that either. I >> assume the reason I can't find alsa*-dev packages for Debian is >> because ALSA is now in the kernel. I've installed kernel source to >> match my running kernel binary, but that was a stretch and didn't >> work. Hints or work-arounds accepted! If more information would be >> useful, please let me know. > > I had to deal with this recently for a different reason... ah yes, now I > remember.. I was building VICE from scratch. I seem to remember there being > ALSA dev packages a while back.. anyway, what worked for me was to install > the asound dev packages: > > lanctot at gravid:trunk% apt-cache search asound | grep dev > lib64asound2-dev - ALSA library development files (64 bit) > libasound2-dev - ALSA library development files > libasound2-doc - ALSA library developer documentation > libalsa-ocaml-dev - OCaml bindings for the ALSA library > libecasound2.2-dev - development files for ecasound > libecasoundc2.2-dev - c binding files for ecasound (devel) > libkvutils2.2-dev - kvutils library required for ecasound - development > lanctot at gravid:trunk% > > My guess is that asound is related to ALSA? Sorry that I can't give a better > explanation but installing asound2-dev worked for me. (The package names > might be slightly differ because I did this after a new Ubuntu install) Got to love sensible, obvious naming systems ... The package I needed was "libasound2-dev". Anyway, it's built and installed. Actually configuring it will have to wait until tomorrow. Thanks!! -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 03:12:33 2008 From: rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:12:33 -0400 Subject: Damian Conway in Toronto tomorrow (Wednesday) to present one of his high-end IT showsmanship talks! Message-ID: <5bef4baf0807152012m2b200ad5pdd22d3d3b2b31b69@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, This email is a condensation of emails I have sent to these lists previously, so please forgive the curtness. One last reminder -- this Wednesday, July 16th, 6:30pm, Damian Conway will be presenting his talk: *Temporally Quaquaversal Virtual Nanomachine Programming in Multiple Topologically Connected Quantum-Relativistic Parallel Timespaces... Made Easy* Location: Bahen Centre for Information Technology, University of Toronto 40 St. George Street (w. side of street, just north of College Ave.) [map] Room # BA 1160 Donations are welcome! These will help provide Damian with an honorarium and to help offset costs of his trip to Toronto. How to donate? Easy! Paypal and credit card (via Paypal) - go to http://hew.ca/ Cheque and cash - bring it to the event tomorrow. I will be there to collect and I can write receipts for those who are interested. If you'd like to email me ahead of time to help me know what the pledge level might aggregate to I'd appreciate it. Facebook event for this talk - http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=22670172852 Cheers, - Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 12:58:18 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:58:18 -0400 Subject: OT: APC Batteries In-Reply-To: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> References: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807160558y6d5f3b60y60aba679c2fa5bcf@mail.gmail.com> Do you know which model(s) of APC UPS? On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Hello All, > > A customer of mine has several APC UPSs that need new batteries that they > are giving away. Is it worth it to source new batteries for these UPSs? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 12:12:16 2008 From: linuxdarkstar-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kamran) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:12:16 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux Message-ID: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> I would be interested to hear experiences and recommendations that any of you have teaching young children how to program and how to use Linux. My niece asked me the other day "Are you going to teach me all about computers?" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 13:27:07 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 09:27:07 -0400 Subject: Questions about gaming in Linux / virtualization In-Reply-To: <487BA182.60206-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <487AF321.3080609@ualberta.ca> <20080714201325.GW31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0807141446j67d4a07cq74183b849053fbb7@mail.gmail.com> <487BA182.60206@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807160627n4dca232by61daa08795a9a8bb@mail.gmail.com> Unfortunately if you're looking for free, the only free version of VMWare is "server", whilst the aforementioned "Workstation" (price tag, around $189). From what I've read, the existing non-Beta versions of workstation also have existing support for 3d acceleration /w Direct8 and OpenGL (just not DX9). No indication that they're going to add DirectX acceleration to VMWare server, but that's feature is probably one the worms on the hook for those that want it. You can evaluate Workstation for 30 days though. I'd never seen VirtualBox until it was mentioned here, but I downloaded it recently and it seems quite easy to use. Nice design on the VM GUI, etc. Qemu has always seemed a little less polished to me, but it's actually the first "VM" type program I used. I never did get it to run on windows, but it runs fairly easily on linux from commandline (various GUI's are a toss-up as to whether they work or not, depending on the version). While there is no out-of-the-box 3d support in Qemu (i.e. an actual accelerated virtual video-card), there *IS* apparently some support through experimental patches, but unfortunately the first link only mentions GL-on-linux-client, and the second link is dead... http://calamari.reverse-dns.net:980/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#head-6108e69d51592ff96e5e9309559490f8f5bfef1a For myself, I've come to find that Cedega is pretty good for recent games, but what I really want to do is get some of my older 98/early-XP games to work on Linux (the ones that often don't work on XP anymore either). Most of these still require Direct3d, but usually fairly early versions. Games: * Dungeon Keeper 2 * Tachyon * Beyond Good and Evil * Star Wars: KOTR * etc Too bad most seem to focus on getting the new stuff to work "perfectly," as opposed to getting the older stuff to work at all. There's better support for newer XP/vista games than legacy Win98 code these days :-( On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Scott Elcomb wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Lennart Sorensen >> wrote: >>> >>> Virtualization won't let you use the video card as far as I know, so >>> know 3D accaleration, which makes that idea useless pretty much. >>> >>> It's pretty much down to wine or native. No other choices if it >>> requires 3D graphics. >> >> The VirtualBox wiki has a comparisons page that shows it doesn't >> support 3D acceleration. It does mention that VMware has limited >> support for it. >> >> http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/VBox_vs_Others >> >> If 3D support is required then VMware Workstation 5 might be the way >> to go - a couple of search results explain how to load existing OS >> installations into VM's and how to setup 3D for Windows VM's: >> >> http://www.vmware.com/support/ws5/doc/ws_vidsound_d3d_enabling_vm.html >> http://www.vmware.com/support/ws5/doc/ws_disk_dualboot.html >> >> I've used Workstation 5 and was very pleased with it. VirtualBox >> became my virtualizer of choice simply because it's FOSS. >> > > Note the section on this page dealing with 3-D and the 6.5 beta: > http://www.vmware.com/products/beta/ws/releasenotes_ws65_beta.html#features > > "Accelerated 3-D graphics on Windows XP guests ? Workstation 6.5 virtual > machines now work with applications that use DirectX 9 accelerated graphics > with shaders up through Shader Model 2.0 on Windows XP guests. Hosts can be > running Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, or Linux." > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 13:45:24 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 09:45:24 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20080715034939.GA21774-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> <20080715034939.GA21774@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20080716134524.GC31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:49:39PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Huh??? Are all add-ons supposed to be USB? And how are video cards > going to be handled (assuming you don't want to settle for the onboard > video chip)? PCI express. I have never seen a PCI express modem though. > That's another advantage. A lot easier than taking the cover off each > time. And my current machine has only 2 PCI slots, 1 of which is > already spoken for by a video card. And even that is recent. When I > got the machine last summer, there wasn't a working standard driver for > the onboard Intel ethernet chip, so I got cheap Via Rhine card, which > used up the remaining slot. I've got the built-in chip working now, > which has freed up the slot. Well perhaps the $25 USB-to-serial adapter with your existing modem is the way to go. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 13:45:57 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 09:45:57 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <792580.96598.qm-4fJJQiRtypeB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <792580.96598.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080716134557.GD31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:21:10AM -0700, Matthew Godycki wrote: > Modern PC motherboards have been using AGP for video cards for quite a > few years now. However, your comment is still legit as there are many other > add-in cards that one may wish to add to their system. Case in point: > - fancier sound cards > - IO device controllers > - usb/etc expansion boards No modern motherboards use PCI express. Systems that are 2 or 3 years out of date used to use AGP. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 13:48:54 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 09:48:54 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> <20080715034939.GA21774@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20080716134854.GE31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 02:50:18PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > Well, consider that Apple deployed the "Air" laptop which only has > physical connections for: > a) power > b) USB > > Note that that does NOT include an Ethernet connection; to get on a > network, you either go wireless, or use a USB-based Ethernet adaptor. > > These strike me as reasons to prefer not to buy an "Apple Air" laptop, > but that's not the point. The lack of ethernet certainly makes me NOT want one. Firewire would have been nice too. > The point is that there are indeed products out there where the intent > is, indeed, that you don't have a zillion kinds of interfaces, and > pointedly don't have a PCI/AGP bus connection to play with. Some laptops have express slots which are PCI express. > That almost always the case with laptops, today; you get to use the > GPU that was bundled with the laptop, and if you want something else, > then you basically need to look for another laptop. Yeah, which is part of why I am not personally a fan of laptops. > For this to happen to desktop machines should not come as a staggering > surprise. There has already been considerable tendancy in this > direction; motherboards now frequently (perhaps mostly?) include the > graphics support. Increasingly, it's only if you want a graphics card > so powerful that it adds so much power consumption and heat > dissipation that it would melt the motherboard that you have a > separate graphics card :-). Many don't contain built in video. It depends what you buy. If you buy the cheapest thing around then yes it will have built in video. > This shouldn't come as a shock or surprise or as *totally* appalling > to us; running X across a 10BaseT connection has been a perfectly > reasonable idea since before they had 100BaseT :-). And worked great until people started wanting video and animated graphics, at which point it started to suck. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 13:40:00 2008 From: icanprogram-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (bob 295) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 09:40:00 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <487DE5A0.5060202-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200807160940.01071.icanprogram@295.ca> Although they may be too advanced for some younger age groups you might check out the iCanProgram courses at: http://www.icanprogram.com/nofeecourses.html The original Tcl/Tk GUI course was geared to grade 5-6 and is available at: http://www.icanprogram.com/09tk/main.html Although it has a Gatesware focus, it is very easy to "convert" to a Linux focus. bob On July 16, 2008 08:12 am, Kamran wrote: > I would be interested to hear experiences and recommendations that any > of you have teaching young children how to program and how to use Linux. > My niece asked me the other day "Are you going to teach me all about > computers?" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 13:51:32 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 09:51:32 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <487CF5EB.1090309-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> <20080715034939.GA21774@waltdnes.org> <487CF5EB.1090309@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080716135132.GF31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 03:09:31PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > The USB-Serial adaptors look to be the cheapest answer, but the > clumsiest (you'll need the adaptor as well as a DB9-DB25 cable to use > with your modem). A USB modem will be more expensive, but more compact, > more portable and more energy efficient (as most of these modems can > draw power from the USB, compared to your sportster which needs its own > brick). Many USB modems don't work with linux of course, being only glorified usb audio devices that expect the CPU to do all the DSP work. > As I mentioned, PCI-Express is quickly obsoleting both conventional PCI > (no compatibility) and AGP. Many vendors are trying to standardize on > USB for external, PCIe for internal. Many new systems and motherboards > come with at least one or two PCIe slots for RAID, enhanced audio and > video. Many other (and most slower) devices are going the USB route > which is why it is not uncommon to find four or more ports on modern > desktops (in addition to ports for modern mice and keyboards which are > already USB). Heck, even the EeePC has room for three, and it already > has its own KB and mouse.... There is also external PCI express now, which does have some uses, but may not be a desktop thing for a while. Modern PCs tend to have 10 or more USB ports (my newest machine at home has 12 USB ports and 2 firewire ports). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 13:54:35 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 09:54:35 -0400 Subject: OT: APC Batteries In-Reply-To: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> References: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> Message-ID: <20080716135435.GG31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 02:18:00PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > A customer of mine has several APC UPSs that need new batteries that they > are giving away. Is it worth it to source new batteries for these UPSs? Sometimes, it depends. If you have to get them shipped then they are almost never worth it due to the weight. If Dell has a sale on the APC SU1500, then it certainly isn't worth it (since they tend to put that on sale for $200 with free shipping a few times per year, and the battery alone is close to that cost, not including shipping). If you can get the battery from a local store then they usually are worth replacing, although with a new UPS you do get a new warrenty as well. For that matter APC often runs trade in programs where you can get a rebate for your old UPS, although quite how they handle shipping I am not sure. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 13:58:15 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 09:58:15 -0400 Subject: Compile asks for ALSA In-Reply-To: <1f13df280807151813q2152c005q90b8abd0aea1a8df-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280807151813q2152c005q90b8abd0aea1a8df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080716135815.GH31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 09:13:28PM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > I'm trying to compile powermated > (http://sourceforge.net/projects/powermated/ to go with my Griffin > Powermate) on a Debian amd64 system. > > To forestall some other suggestions: I'm aware that powermated > development is discontinued in favour of gizmod, but I've had nothing > but bad luck with gizmod: it will recognize input from the device but > not act on it. I've had that on a couple machines. Powermated works > nicely and I'd like to use it for a bit longer. > > ./configure stalls out with this error: > > ... [ lots of "checking for ... yes" snipped ] > checking for pthread_create in -lpthread... yes > checking for snd_mixer_open in -lasound... no > configure: error: You must have ALSA Installed! > > Of course I have ALSA installed. I have the package that provides the > "alsamixer" binary but it's evidently not looking for that either. I > assume the reason I can't find alsa*-dev packages for Debian is > because ALSA is now in the kernel. I've installed kernel source to > match my running kernel binary, but that was a stretch and didn't > work. Hints or work-arounds accepted! If more information would be > useful, please let me know. > > If anyone is happily using gizmod I'd love to talk to you (I know I > have to use it eventually). I think you are looking for the package 'libasound2-dev' The user space library is not part of the kernel after all. Only the drivers are in the kernel, not the libraries and utilities. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 14:01:11 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:01:11 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <487DE5A0.5060202-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:12:16AM -0400, Kamran wrote: > I would be interested to hear experiences and recommendations that any > of you have teaching young children how to program and how to use Linux. > My niece asked me the other day "Are you going to teach me all about > computers?" You could teach them LOGO, Pascal, and python. Python makes it easy to do nifty graphics and sound stuff too without having to get into boring details. The python pygame library in particular is great fun to play with. Avoid crap like BASIC, it teaches very little that is useful and a lot that is anti useful. Perl would be a good way to make them never want to go near programming again, and C and assembler take way to much time to accomplish anything interesting so you would probably loose their attension span long before anything happened. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 14:13:37 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:13:37 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20080716135132.GF31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> <20080715034939.GA21774@waltdnes.org> <487CF5EB.1090309@telly.org> <20080716135132.GF31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <487E0211.5060601@telly.org> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 03:09:31PM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >> The USB-Serial adaptors look to be the cheapest answer, but the >> clumsiest (you'll need the adaptor as well as a DB9-DB25 cable to use >> with your modem). A USB modem will be more expensive, but more compact, >> more portable and more energy efficient (as most of these modems can >> draw power from the USB, compared to your sportster which needs its own >> brick). >> > > Many USB modems don't work with linux of course, Based on what do you say that? The ones that I'm aware of -- by USRobotics, Multitech and Zoom -- have explicit Linux support. Generally speaking, USB modems are _less_ likely to be winmodems than internal cards or motherboard built-ins; indeed any modems that meet the USB Communication Device Class Abstract Control Model (CDC ACM) standard will work using the Linux "acm" driver. Some off-brand USB modems are not CDC-ACM compliant and as such won't work with Linux (many of them won't work with Vista either); but this is a far cry from writing off the category. Compliant modems are certainly easy enough to find. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 10:38:30 2008 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 06:38:30 -0400 Subject: OT: APC Batteries In-Reply-To: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com>; from ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 14:18:00 -0400 References: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> Message-ID: <20080716103830.GA1949@localhost> On Tue Jul 15,2008 02:18:00 PM Ansar Mohammed wrote: > A customer of mine has several APC UPSs that need new batteries > that they are giving away. Is it worth it to source new batteries > for these UPSs? Genuine APC replacements will be a little expensive. APC uses standard size batteries, so you can get non-APC branded ones for much less. I've found Sayal Electronics carries some of the sizes that APC uses, for quite a low price. If you do an Internet search using the APC battery (pack) part number, you'll find plenty of places selling third party replacements. You can go to APC's web site to find the correct battery part number for your UPS. Note that some of the battery sizes that APC uses are available with two different terminal sizes. If you buy replacements off the shelf, make sure the terminals match the originals (or come with adapters). -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 14:21:11 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:21:11 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <20080716140111.GI31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 16-Jul-08, at 10:01 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:12:16AM -0400, Kamran wrote: >> I would be interested to hear experiences and recommendations that >> any >> of you have teaching young children how to program and how to use >> Linux. >> My niece asked me the other day "Are you going to teach me all about >> computers?" > > You could teach them LOGO, Pascal, and python. Python makes it easy > to > do nifty graphics and sound stuff too without having to get into > boring > details. The python pygame library in particular is great fun to play > with. I guess the corollary question would be: what age could/should one get a kid involved in programming? I like the idea of starting a kid on Python or Javascript, but when? And it would be awesome if there were some specific learning resources that could take them through a course of study. Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 14:57:33 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:57:33 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1216220253.6251.18.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 10:21 -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > On 16-Jul-08, at 10:01 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:12:16AM -0400, Kamran wrote: > >> I would be interested to hear experiences and recommendations that > >> any > >> of you have teaching young children how to program and how to use > >> Linux. > >> My niece asked me the other day "Are you going to teach me all about > >> computers?" > > > > You could teach them LOGO, Pascal, and python. Python makes it easy > > to > > do nifty graphics and sound stuff too without having to get into > > boring > > details. The python pygame library in particular is great fun to play > > with. > > I guess the corollary question would be: what age could/should one get > a kid involved in programming? I like the idea of starting a kid on > Python or Javascript, but when? > > And it would be awesome if there were some specific learning resources > that could take them through a course of study. > i've had some fun with my 9-year-old using the Turtle Art application on her OLPC. this is a logo-like tool that uses a scratch-like "snap-together" visual interface. It's quite limited but has been loads of fun; what i like best of it is that the logic of looping &c is tied to a geometrical interface (making spirals, loops, and other patterns) so the underlying mathematics is brought home to the kids in a very visceral way. i highly recommend it; there are various ways to use it without a olpc, most obviously using a simple vm, or, if you're on ubuntu, installing the olpc here's a olpc link that might help: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/LOGO and some links about scratch, which is itself a very cool project: http://www.notesmine.com/scratch_installer#deb_package http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_(programming_language) http://scratch.mit.edu/ scratch is quite a bit more flexible than turtle art, but as a consequence doesn't map onto the mathematical concepts quite so well. anyway have fun and report back! matt > Cheers, > Aaron. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 14:59:17 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:59:17 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1216220357.6251.20.camel@localhost> ps, another interesting resource is byteworks in st. louis, mi: http://www.bworks.org/byteworks/about/index.html m -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 15:14:47 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:14:47 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <1216220253.6251.18.camel@localhost> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1216220253.6251.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <7C1E68EB-4C3F-459A-A0B0-63382FD0E103@gmail.com> > > > anyway have fun and report back! Thanks for the links. My daughter is four years old, so it looks like we're a little ways away from getting into this. :-) Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 16:11:31 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:11:31 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <7C1E68EB-4C3F-459A-A0B0-63382FD0E103-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1216220253.6251.18.camel@localhost> <7C1E68EB-4C3F-459A-A0B0-63382FD0E103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807160911xa02f7e6w625f96cbe7a2ed61@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Thanks for the links. My daughter is four years old, so it looks like we're > a little ways away from getting into this. :-) 4 might be a little early. ;-) I installed Little Wizard from Synaptic a long time ago to see if it would live up to it's description. It never ran and so I never really looked any further at it. Does sound like what you might be looking for though: "Little Wizard is a development environment for children. It is intended to be used by primary school children to learn about the main elements of real computer languages. Using only the mouse, children can explore programming concepts such as variables, expressions, loops, conditions, and logical blocks. Every element of the language is represented by an intuitive icon, making it easy to learn. Little Wizard works under Linux and Windows 2000/XP." http://littlewizard.sourceforge.net/index.html PS - The site mentions that there's little to no documentation; if it works for you, you might end up having to "build lessons." (Might even make for some interesting blog material. :) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 16:21:13 2008 From: asafmaruf-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Asaf Maruf) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:21:13 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0807160911xa02f7e6w625f96cbe7a2ed61-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1216220253.6251.18.camel@localhost> <7C1E68EB-4C3F-459A-A0B0-63382FD0E103@gmail.com> <99a6c38f0807160911xa02f7e6w625f96cbe7a2ed61@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49e826e90807160921l53d490f4g1e5828e31a61141e@mail.gmail.com> Have a look at alice.org. Alice is an innovative 3D programming environment for kids. Asaf On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > Thanks for the links. My daughter is four years old, so it looks like > we're > > a little ways away from getting into this. :-) > > 4 might be a little early. ;-) > > I installed Little Wizard from Synaptic a long time ago to see if it > would live up to it's description. It never ran and so I never really > looked any further at it. Does sound like what you might be looking > for though: > > "Little Wizard is a development environment for children. It is > intended to be used by primary school children to learn about the main > elements of real computer languages. Using only the mouse, children > can explore programming concepts such as variables, expressions, > loops, conditions, and logical blocks. Every element of the language > is represented by an intuitive icon, making it easy to learn. Little > Wizard works under Linux and Windows 2000/XP." > > http://littlewizard.sourceforge.net/index.html > > PS - The site mentions that there's little to no documentation; if it > works for you, you might end up having to "build lessons." (Might > even make for some interesting blog material. :) > > -- > Scott Elcomb > http://www.psema4.com/ > http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- "I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." - Richard P. Feynman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 16:21:28 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:21:28 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807160921x3e2eaecdpc50885d1187ab260@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Aaron Vegh wrote: > I guess the corollary question would be: what age could/should one get a kid > involved in programming? I like the idea of starting a kid on Python or > Javascript, but when? It was a different world back then, but I started at 10 in BASIC. Didn't take long to become relatively fluent and capable of learning/applying fundamental algorithms. Disregarding technology (and Education System) changes since that time I'd have to say that I think 10-12 is roughly the right age to get kids started. Children will have developed basic mathematical, logic, and problem solving skills through school. These skills can then be applied to solve programming problems like making a sprite cross the screen (which then leads pretty directly into gamedev...) -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 16:24:52 2008 From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jing) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:24:52 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <487DE5A0.5060202-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Kamran wrote: > I would be interested to hear experiences and recommendations that any of > you have teaching young children how to program and how to use Linux. My > niece asked me the other day "Are you going to teach me all about > computers?" Disclaimer: I have no children and I have never taught any young persons to use computers. All opinions expressed here have no basis or support other than a single data-point--my own personal experience. I personally started programming around grade 3 or 4 on BASIC. I know that lots of people hate that language; and I personally came to hate that language too. Actually my elementary school had Apple computers and we played with LOGO way back when I was in 1st and 2nd grade but I didn't realize it was "programming".... it was just some arbitrary game. Playing with BASIC was what made me realize that computers followed commands and I can structure commands to make it do stuff. At around grade 6 or so I realized that BASIC was retarded(*) and what I needed was a closer relationship to the hardware. I didn't know about Linux at the time (still on DOS) and couldn't afford a compiler. So I started planning out and writing my own assembler programs (.COM files, for those of you that remember) using an old DOS program called DEBUG.EXE. Anyways, the point is, I think (IMHO) that all this talk of which is the best program to start with is a bit misguided. Like musical instruments, much of it is up to personal taste, and for some people it takes trying out multiple instruments (languages) to find the one that clicks. Pick a reasonable one and try. If they lose interest, see how they handle switching to another. It might help reinforce concepts if they see that there are themes which can be carried over. (*) For the longest time, BASIC was serving me well for the little programs I was writing, including simple form-filling and calculation programs to do misc tasks. It wasn't until I wanted to play with sounds on my SoundBlaster that I realized I needed to move on. BASIC wasn't letting me read/write to port 220 fast enough and didn't provide a means for hooking into interrupts. I know that the OS and hardware relationship is much more complicated now... but like I said before, I don't think you can predict what will trigger the child's interest. I don't think people should under-estimate a child's ability to work through complex environments. After all, the real world is pretty complicated and they seem to do just fine. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 16:37:57 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:37:57 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <487E0211.5060601-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> <487964AA.2070702@telly.org> <20080715034939.GA21774@waltdnes.org> <487CF5EB.1090309@telly.org> <20080716135132.GF31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <487E0211.5060601@telly.org> Message-ID: <20080716163757.GJ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:13:37AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Based on what do you say that? The ones that I'm aware of -- by > USRobotics, Multitech and Zoom -- have explicit Linux support. Generally > speaking, USB modems are _less_ likely to be winmodems than internal > cards or motherboard built-ins; indeed any modems that meet the USB > Communication Device Class Abstract Control Model (CDC ACM) standard > will work using the Linux "acm" driver. Every usb modem I have dealt with (which fortunately isn't many) has in fact been a winmodem. None of them were recognized and certainlt did not work with the acm driver. At least one was a us robotics modem. > Some off-brand USB modems are not CDC-ACM compliant and as such won't > work with Linux (many of them won't work with Vista either); but this is > a far cry from writing off the category. Compliant modems are certainly > easy enough to find. Based on the ones I had encountered, none of which were unknown brands, USB modems should be assumed to be winmodems. I see at least one model from USR lists linux support explicitly for the USB one, so I guess that one would be a decent choice. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 16:41:28 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:41:28 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20080716164128.GK31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:21:11AM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > I guess the corollary question would be: what age could/should one get > a kid involved in programming? I like the idea of starting a kid on > Python or Javascript, but when? javascript is frustrating mess. I wouldn't recommend it either. I started out playing around with a Commodore VIC 20 when I was about 10 or 11, so what do I know. :) And while I had some fun with it, I wouldn't say I learned anything useful from playing with the BASIC on it. That language was awfully limited. > And it would be awesome if there were some specific learning resources > that could take them through a course of study. There are tutorials for some languages. But really I think the best way to learn is to just play with it. Take an example and make it do different things. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 16:53:37 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:53:37 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <20080716164128.GK31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080716164128.GK31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807160953g3113add0l46088915a789c0e9@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:21:11AM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: >> I guess the corollary question would be: what age could/should one get >> a kid involved in programming? I like the idea of starting a kid on >> Python or Javascript, but when? > > javascript is frustrating mess. I wouldn't recommend it either. > > I started out playing around with a Commodore VIC 20 when I was about 10 > or 11, so what do I know. :) And while I had some fun with it, I > wouldn't say I learned anything useful from playing with the BASIC on > it. That language was awfully limited. I'd prefer to avoid any language flamewars but I don't believe that BASIC is bad for a first language. The reason I refer to it is the same reason I'd support JavaScript for a first language: - It's a relatively simple language (eg. DOM, CSS, XML, HTML etc are _not_ Javascript) - The language is actually quite similar to Perl and very flexible - There's no need for beginners to get bogged down with low-level coding - Beginners can create, share, and improve simple projects very easily (eg. on the web) >> And it would be awesome if there were some specific learning resources >> that could take them through a course of study. > > There are tutorials for some languages. But really I think the best way > to learn is to just play with it. Take an example and make it do > different things. I'd have to agree with this sentiment. Exploration, Trial-and-Error, and Experience are the Great Teachers. If the child's amenable to writing down their experiences while learning a language, it might (again) be good blogging material. In addition, it may provide skill improvement in writing with natural language. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 17:10:00 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:10:00 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <20080716164128.GK31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080716164128.GK31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420807161010n5478f35doe092c9ea354e3afb@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:21:11AM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: >> I guess the corollary question would be: what age could/should one get >> a kid involved in programming? I like the idea of starting a kid on >> Python or Javascript, but when? > > javascript is frustrating mess. I wouldn't recommend it either. Javascript is a pretty elegant language, really. Using Javascript in the browser is a pain in the ass because of the incompatibilities between browsers, but that's an API problem, not a language problem. If you're interested in teaching Javascript, I'd suggest installing Rhino, the Java-based Javascript interpreter from the Mozilla foundation. It comes with a rudimentary Javascript shell that runs at the command line and it exposes the entire Java API to the scripting environment. It's also pretty easy to embed so, if you wanted to, you could provide a little background magic to suit whatever it is you'd like to teach your niece. My own personal anecdote is that I started programming in Logo and GW-BASIC on an IBM PC Jr. when I was about 9 years old. My next steps were Visual Basic, C, C++, Java, Scheme. Looking back, BASIC was a terrible language but, as another poster said, it's a straightforward language that gives you the sense of controlling the machine without having to fart about with compilers, pointers, or static type safety. Today I'd probably start with Python or Ruby. If Ruby sounds interesting, you could try _why's (Poignant) Guide to Ruby--it's a book on Ruby provided free of charge on the internet and it's illustrated with cartoon foxes. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 17:14:14 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:14:14 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0807160953g3113add0l46088915a789c0e9-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20080716164128.GK31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0807160953g3113add0l46088915a789c0e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080716171414.GL31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:53:37PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I'd prefer to avoid any language flamewars but I don't believe that > BASIC is bad for a first language. The reason I refer to it is the > same reason I'd support JavaScript for a first language: > > - It's a relatively simple language (eg. DOM, CSS, XML, HTML etc are > _not_ Javascript) > - The language is actually quite similar to Perl and very flexible > - There's no need for beginners to get bogged down with low-level coding > - Beginners can create, share, and improve simple projects very easily > (eg. on the web) BASIC (and perl) teach some horribly bad techniques that can take a long time to get rid of later if you ever learn any good programming practices. I like the quote from Dijkstra on basic: "It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration." I did start out with basic, and I know it taught me nothing useful. I had fun with it, and it let me make the computer do stuff, but it wasn't programming that's for sure. I use perl a lot (at work) and can do lots of things in it, but I also know it isn't a great language and the syntax stinks in many cases. The more I use perl the less I like it. Python is better, OCAML would be great. Both have much better native types (like lists) that make it much easier to do things without having to deal with array indexes and other useless clutter that is best avoided in good code. Nothing can generate useful programs as easily as python (at least not that I have seen) since you can use existing libraries to avoid the low level details until you get interested in what those details are (in which case you go look at the code for the library). OCAML comes close to python in ease of use and having a great set of libraries. OCAML is also a much cleaner language than python (and much older if you count the ML it is based on). I wish I had looked at python sooner. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 16 19:57:56 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:57:56 -0400 Subject: OT: APC Batteries In-Reply-To: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> References: <0a3a01c8e6a7$1e222420$5a666c60$@com> Message-ID: <487E52C4.5040805@dinamis.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Hello All, > > A customer of mine has several APC UPSs that need new batteries that > they are giving away. Is it worth it to source new batteries for these UPSs? They're in Markham. I just ran across their Google Ad on a search results page. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 17 14:31:01 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: jing | I personally started programming around grade 3 or 4 on BASIC. I know | that lots of people hate that language; and I personally came to hate | that language too. Actually my elementary school had Apple computers | and we played with LOGO way back when I was in 1st and 2nd grade but I | didn't realize it was "programming".... it was just some arbitrary | game. Playing with BASIC was what made me realize that computers | followed commands and I can structure commands to make it do stuff. I've been on the other side of this kind of experience. Warning: this was quite some time ago. I think Logo is a great idea. It is clean and simple and powerful. It is actually a variant of LISP. It is well thought out for the very purpose we are talking about. It has had years of folks using it for this purpose and building up teaching material. LCSI's Microworlds might be the highest expression of the "constructivist" approach. One of the two designers of the language, Seymour Papert, was even a student of Piaget! He has written several exciting books about his constructivist ideas ("Mind Storms" for example). But my son didn't think Logo is real. He preferred BASIC because it was. Grrr. (Later, I actually did serious paid system programming in Logo so I think that proves it is real.) Smalltalk was designed for kids and inspired by Logo. I think that the turtle, in all its instances, is a great idea. It gives kids a tool to do things that could matter to them. There need to be a bunch of gadgets that are just as compelling. For some kids, Apple's Hypercard was appealing. Lego Logo (a motorized Lego set controlled by Logo) was very interesting to kids in our elementary school when properly supported (by Kadge, my wife). As far as when kids might get interested, Piaget would have something to say about this. It is funny that Papert seems to ignore this. But Piaget was wrong about my kids. As far as I can tell, Logo has remained small in the education system. The system has mostly retreated from the idea that programming could be a universal tool like mathematics. I think that this is very sad. Most real programming languages have way too much arcane stuff to learn for this purpose. Radical subsetting is possible but there are no universally agreed upon or supported subsets. Ric Holt and others tried this at the U of T 30+ years ago: SP/K was a series of subsets of PL/I. They were technically quite successful but SP/K didn't take over the world. It is important to remember that the quality of a language implementation may matter as much as the language itself. Logo on the Atari 8-bit series was way better than Logo on the Atari ST series. We had both in our house and we always used the 8-bit, even though the hardware was laughably inferior. | At around grade 6 or so I realized that BASIC was retarded(*) and what | I needed was a closer relationship to the hardware. I didn't know | about Linux at the time (still on DOS) and couldn't afford a compiler. | So I started planning out and writing my own assembler programs (.COM | files, for those of you that remember) using an old DOS program called | DEBUG.EXE. I've barely used MSDOS. I was under the impression that if you were writing .com files, you were writing in machine language, not assembler. Isn't that all debug.exe allows you? I wrote an editor/assembler/debugger/etc. program for the Intel 8080. (On my Altair it fits in 7k of EPROM and self-hosts). My daughter and I wrote a small program in Turbo Pascal and then the same thing in assembler. This was at her initiative and she seemed to really enjoy seeing what really went on at a lower level from what she had been using. Being able to step through the code with the debugger was useful. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 17 14:55:14 2008 From: tenger-P1ovA8G34VBEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:55:14 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1216306514.5968.36.camel@jaguar-hardy> On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 10:31 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > [big snip] > I've barely used MSDOS. I was under the impression that if you were > writing .com files, you were writing in machine language, not > assembler. Isn't that all debug.exe allows you? Ah! a memory test. From an increasingly old memory ... debug.exe allowed mnemoninc opcodes and register names. I think you had to keep track of everything else yourself. Cheers, Terry. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 17 16:01:51 2008 From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jing) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:01:51 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <1216306514.5968.36.camel@jaguar-hardy> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <1216306514.5968.36.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Terrence Enger wrote: > On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 10:31 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: >> [big snip] >> I've barely used MSDOS. I was under the impression that if you were >> writing .com files, you were writing in machine language, not >> assembler. Isn't that all debug.exe allows you? > > Ah! a memory test. From an increasingly old memory ... > > debug.exe allowed mnemoninc opcodes and register names. I think you had to keep track of everything else yourself. Yes, it gave you mnemonic names which really helps to keep track of what the ops generally are. But you have to track variables yourself by knowing which addresses to write to. As painful as this sounds, I personally believe this was one of the best learning experiences in my early education because it made pointers crystal clear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 17 17:31:41 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:31:41 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <1216306514.5968.36.camel@jaguar-hardy> Message-ID: <20080717173141.GM31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:01:51PM -0400, jing wrote: > Yes, it gave you mnemonic names which really helps to keep track of > what the ops generally are. But you have to track variables yourself > by knowing which addresses to write to. As painful as this sounds, I > personally believe this was one of the best learning experiences in my > early education because it made pointers crystal clear. It would certainly teach you just how awful the x86 and DOS are and were respectively. Even in protected mode x86 is quite awful to work with and its way nicer than real mode. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 17 21:09:51 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:09:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0807160911xa02f7e6w625f96cbe7a2ed61-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1216220253.6251.18.camel@localhost> <7C1E68EB-4C3F-459A-A0B0-63382FD0E103@gmail.com> <99a6c38f0807160911xa02f7e6w625f96cbe7a2ed61@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Scott Elcomb wrote: > PS - The site mentions that there's little to no documentation; if it > works for you, you might end up having to "build lessons." (Might > even make for some interesting blog material. :) A lot of OSS projects suffer from a lack of doco as we well know. A great way to contribute is to write docs. So if you develop useful material consider submitting it back to the project to see if they can use it. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From walterdnes-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 18 02:45:04 2008 From: walterdnes-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:45:04 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution In-Reply-To: <20080713014747.GB29319-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080713014747.GB29319@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20080718024504.GB4962@waltdnes.org> Being a pack-rat has occasional advantages. Digging through my collection of old computer peripherals, I discovered a PCI modem. This was proabably from my 1999 Dell which died on me last summer. I stuck it in, and it works. I had a bit of a scare about it not showing up, but it was my fault. In building the kernel (make menuconfig) you have to remember... Device Drivers ---> Character devices ---> Serial drivers ---> <*> 8250/16550 and compatible serial support (5) Maximum number of 8250/16550 serial ports (5) Number of 8250/16550 serial ports to register at runtime I'm still interested in the Multitech USB unit for if/when I get a laptop. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 18 03:53:32 2008 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:53:32 +1000 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1216220253.6251.18.camel@localhost> <7C1E68EB-4C3F-459A-A0B0-63382FD0E103@gmail.com> <99a6c38f0807160911xa02f7e6w625f96cbe7a2ed61@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1216353212.4607.11.camel@moonglow.roaming.operationaldynamics.com> On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 21:09 +0000, Robert Brockway wrote: > A lot of OSS projects suffer from a lack of doco as we well know. A great > way to contribute is to write docs. So if you develop useful material > consider submitting it back to the project to see if they can use it. Indeed. In the project I am maintainer of, people often flail about a bit as they try to a learn the library and more to the point how to use it correctly. When helping such people on IRC or whatever, I watch for the eureka moment happening... and when it does, I really earnestly encourage them to record their experiences - ideally as a contribution to the code (JavaDoc in this case) that generates the API documentation, but also perhaps as an example, etc - because, really, you only learn something once, and if you can [with my help] capture how you thought it should work and then explain how it really works instead, then that will be a tremendous help to the next person who comes along with the same preconception of how it [does not, in fact] work. "... if you are trying to do X, then look HERE instead." "... beware - you might think that this will cause Y, but no, you'll need to do Z first." "... if you're wondering why A hasn't happened, then try this..." "... B is for this, only. You probably want C instead." "... this can be interesting not only for the usual purpose D, but also because it enables you to do E, something really cool you might not have thought of." That kind of thing. All such comments have come from the practical experience of people *using* the library, and such experiences recorded in a reusable fashion, are contributions worth their weight in gold. And you don't have to be a seasoned hacker to make such observations - these come as a result of the learning of people new to a project. ++ This obviously conflates the issue of mere "improving documentation" with "contributing [code] to a project", but when we as maintainers do what we can to lower barriers to entry, then small contributions become possible. And that's a great way to get people involved not just for my own benefit, and not even in the benefit of the free & open source movement in general, but to the broader cause of citizenship and finding ways to better the [physical] communities we are a part of. AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Operational Dynamics is an operations and engineering consultancy focusing on IT strategy, organizational architecture, systems review, and effective procedures for change management. We actively carry out research and development in these areas on behalf of our clients, and enable successful use of open source in their mission critical enterprises, worldwide. http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ Sydney New York Toronto London -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 18 14:40:29 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:40:29 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <20080716140111.GI31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807180740m28a734cap29cfe9931929cbff@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:12:16AM -0400, Kamran wrote: >> I would be interested to hear experiences and recommendations that any >> of you have teaching young children how to program and how to use Linux. >> My niece asked me the other day "Are you going to teach me all about >> computers?" > > You could teach them LOGO, Pascal, and python. Python makes it easy to > do nifty graphics and sound stuff too without having to get into boring > details. The python pygame library in particular is great fun to play > with. I came across this blog post this morning and seems fairly relevant in support of using Python to help teach programming. http://coffeeghost.net/2008/07/01/a-thousand-layers-of-abstractions/ "Recently I've been thinking a lot about how we can get more people involved with programming. I don't necessarily mean programming as professionals, but just to develop enough of an understanding on what software is and how it works. So I wrote a book aimed at teaching games programming in Python to the 9 to 12 year age range (get 'em while they're young). In my "Python is the new BASIC" post, (which was a plug for my free, Creative Commons-licensed book, "Invent Your Own Computer Games with Python") I received this comment: You know, I took a look at that game book and it struck me how so 1980s the thing was. It brought me down to memory lane. Now, looking at the alternative (Squeak), which is fully OOP all the way down to the very menus and icons, buttons, which has a much richer environment and is totally ready for multimedia, along with the derived (written in Squeak) Scratch language, I think it's very bad that we're returning to Basic. Kids deserve something better in 2008, and we can deliver it, just as long as we keep our prejudice at bay against Smalltalk (because it really is about prejudice and lack of information)." -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 18 17:27:29 2008 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:27:29 -0400 Subject: abcde cddb lookup failing -- what's wrong? Message-ID: <1216402049.13175.49.camel@localhost> hi folks, i use abcde to rip cd's to ogg and flac. in the past it's worked great but i have a bunch of new cd's to burn and for some reason, abcde has stopped contacting the cddb servers. I get this error: Executing customizable pre-read function... done. Getting CD track info... Querying the CD for audio tracks... Grabbing entire CD - tracks: 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 CDDB unavailable. this never used to happen, and other programs trying to access the same fredb servers have no trouble. has anyone else experienced this and/or have a likely solution? I thought the issue was in my abcde.conf, but i;ve replaced it with the dpkg-dist version to no avail. i appreciate any help you can give. here's the output of grep ii cddb /etc/abcde.conf, if anyone finds that helpful. thanks! matt -------------- # CDDB options # If you wish to use a different CDDB server, edit this line. CDDBURL="http://gnudb.gnudb.org/~cddb/cddb.cgi" CDDBCOPYLOCAL="y" CDDBLOCALDIR="$HOME/.cddb" CDDBLOCALRECURSIVE="y" #NOCDDBQUERY=n # Select here if you want to use the locally stored CDDB entries. # This is useful if you do a lot of editing to those CDDB entries. # Also, other tools like Grip store CDDB entries under $HOME/.cddb, CDDBUSELOCAL="y" # CDDB. #SHOWCDDBFIELDS=year,genre #CDDBTOOL=cddb-tool #CDDBTOOLOPTS= # cddb,read,normalize,encode,tag,move,playlist,clean # tag implies cddb,read,encode # move implies cddb,read,encode,tag # playlist implies cddb ACTIONS=cddb,read,encode,tag,move,playlist,normalize,replaygain,clean # By default, abcde will do the following to CDDB data to get a useful # mungefilename receives the CDDB data (artist, track, title, whatever) # Useful if you have a slow network or CDDB servers seem unresponsive. -- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 18 23:48:04 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:48:04 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0807180740m28a734cap29cfe9931929cbff-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0807180740m28a734cap29cfe9931929cbff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080718234804.GN31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:40:29AM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I came across this blog post this morning and seems fairly relevant in > support of using Python to help teach programming. > > http://coffeeghost.net/2008/07/01/a-thousand-layers-of-abstractions/ > > > "Recently I've been thinking a lot about how we can get more people > involved with programming. I don't necessarily mean programming as > professionals, but just to develop enough of an understanding on what > software is and how it works. So I wrote a book aimed at teaching > games programming in Python to the 9 to 12 year age range (get 'em > while they're young). In my "Python is the new BASIC" post, (which was > a plug for my free, Creative Commons-licensed book, "Invent Your Own > Computer Games with Python") I received this comment: > > You know, I took a look at that game book and it struck me how so > 1980s the thing was. It brought me down to memory lane. > > Now, looking at the alternative (Squeak), which is fully OOP all > the way down to the very menus and icons, buttons, which has a much > richer environment and is totally ready for multimedia, along with the > derived (written in Squeak) Scratch language, I think it's very bad > that we're returning to Basic. > > Kids deserve something better in 2008, and we can deliver it, just > as long as we keep our prejudice at bay against Smalltalk (because it > really is about prejudice and lack of information)." Personally I think OOP is a horrible idea that will eventually go away. The future is functional programming since it is much simpler to automatically parallelize and allows you to worry about what you want to do rather than how to do it (where the programmer is often wrong and the compiler maker knows much better). -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 04:11:29 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:11:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <20080718234804.GN31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0807180740m28a734cap29cfe9931929cbff@mail.gmail.com> <20080718234804.GN31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Personally I think OOP is a horrible idea that will eventually go away. | The future is functional programming since it is much simpler to | automatically parallelize and allows you to worry about what you want to | do rather than how to do it (where the programmer is often wrong and the | compiler maker knows much better). I've been a fan of functional programming for 30 or 40 years. But I don't use a functional language. I like to think that my programming style is influenced by the ideas of functional programming. - compilers may better handle small stuff, especially if the programmer has better things to do. I don't know about the big stuff -- that may take co-operation. Delaying the mapping of the program onto the hardware, facilitated by FP, should be a big win. - I suspect that functional programming is not as intuitive to beginners. After all, anthropomorphising a single processor moving values around is easier than understanding a network. This does not scale, but kids aren't likely to be concerned with scaling. - the right way to understand programs is to understand induction. I remember when inductive proof was introduced to my grade 13 math class (Math B, I think). Very few "got it". I think that kids might not want to start there. - The equivalent of objects (synthetic datatypes) is needed in functional programming. But the formal concept of an object (something that retains its identity even as it changes state) is antithetical to functional programming Logo, for example, encourages a functional style to a certain extent. That may be a good balance. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 04:36:04 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: interested in Ottawa Linux Symposium Message-ID: I'm going to OLS next week. https://www.linuxsymposium.org/2008/summary.php I think that I've been to all but one of them which shows that I think that they are worthwhile. A friend was going with me but has had to bow out. Is anyone interested in buying from him some or all of: - Via Rail return ticket (going Tuesday afternoon, returning Saturday evening). I will be on these trains. This means missing the mini-summits. - one bedroom of a suite at the University of Ottawa (I'm in the other bedroom) - conference registration (at the earlybird rate, I think) If so, please contact me. Feel free to pass this on. Except to axe murderers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 05:34:49 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:34:49 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0807180740m28a734cap29cfe9931929cbff-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0807180740m28a734cap29cfe9931929cbff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Now, looking at the alternative (Squeak), which is fully OOP all > the way down to the very menus and icons, buttons, which has a much > richer environment and is totally ready for multimedia, along with the > derived (written in Squeak) Scratch language, I think it's very bad > that we're returning to Basic. > > Kids deserve something better in 2008, and we can deliver it, just > as long as we keep our prejudice at bay against Smalltalk (because it > really is about prejudice and lack of information)." It seems to me that the whole "abject orientation" fixation has been a terrible distraction from the *real* problems of computer science. OO is simply a way of structuring the relationships between functions and data, which is merely a programming technique. You can do it in any language, if you plan for it a little. It's even doable in assembly language, albeit that's not likely a way people will be too excited about doing much of anything :-). There are a number of useful paradigms that OO seems to distract people from: - As Lennart observes, functional programming is of considerable interest. It allows *provably* establishing independence of instances of functions, which is *staggeringly* interesting as the need to enable parallel execution grows (in keeping with the number of CPU cores on each motherboard). This is why people have been taking interest in Erlang, of late; even though it has the unusual syntax of Prolog, its capability to guarantee safety of running functions in parallel is exceedingly useful in building highly concurrent applications. It was created for coding phone switches, certainly an example of hefty concurrency. Harnessing parallelism is one of the "grand challenges." OO hasn't got anything much to contribute in that regard, conceptually. Indeed, by binding state and methods together, implementations frequently add to the challenges, as opposed to helping to resolve them. - Typical OO implementations focus heavily on building data type taxonomies, and then on building per-type sets of methods. ML (yet another flavour of functional languages) instead uses type inference, with type polymorphism, which chops out the need for whole branches of method taxonomies. - Another of the "grand categories" of solutions is declarative programming. Notable instances include SQL, Prolog, Erlang, and Haskell, most of which, again, are functional languages. The idea here is to write programs that ask to calculate a result, as opposed to indicating how to do so. It is becoming increasingly clear that for a system to be deeply and tightly coupled to "object orientation" is, anymore, something of a mistake. That's not prejudice against Smalltalk, by any means; I did *not* pre-judge it in any way. I watched it, with interest, when Byte presented on it back in 1981. It was not until rather more recently that I had opportunity to try out Smalltalk in running form, and I have always found myself disappointed at how the learning curve of the environment discouraged me from getting to the point of trying any of the things that had always seemed interesting about it. If anything, I have been predisposed to look favorably on Smalltalk. But its design isn't cognizant of the 30 years worth of new concepts. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 12:15:22 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:15:22 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS Message-ID: Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the WORST possible Internet service in Canada? Colin McGregor P.S.: Sorry if I sound a little grumpy, but I have been running into a number of bits recently where stuff was seemingly broken by design, and it annoys me... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 14:23:50 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:23:50 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4881F8F6.9000209@utoronto.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a > website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo > search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and > been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". > > Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the > WORST possible Internet service in Canada? > > Colin McGregor > > P.S.: Sorry if I sound a little grumpy, but I have been running into a > number of bits recently where stuff was seemingly broken by design, > and it annoys me... There are plenty of DNS servers you can query instead of Rogers'. Try any of 4.2.2.[0-6]: jamonation at zeus:~$ for i in $(seq 06); do host 4.2.2.$i; done 1.2.2.4.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer vnsc-pri.sys.gtei.net. 2.2.2.4.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer vnsc-bak.sys.gtei.net. 3.2.2.4.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer vnsc-lc.sys.gtei.net. 4.2.2.4.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer vnsc-pri-dsl.genuity.net. 5.2.2.4.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer vnsc-bak-dsl.genuity.net. 6.2.2.4.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer vnsc-lc-dsl.genuity.net. I haven't had any problems with any of those and there isn't any failed lookup badness. Note that firefox defaults to google search for locations that don't resolve, e.g. type http://firefox and you'll get the I'm Feeling Lucky result. You don't see the branding, but the behaviour of querying a search engine instead of failing on a host lookup is the same. Sure there isn't any advertising with Firefox, but something to be aware of. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 14:33:12 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:33:12 -0600 Subject: ISP Recommendation? (was "Rogers Breaks DNS") In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4881FB28.1060208@ualberta.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a > website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo > search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and > been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". > > Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the > WORST possible Internet service in Canada? > Ouch! I'll be moving to Etobicoke soon (from Alberta).. if I want cable, do I have a choice (ie. Cogeco?). I've also heard Rogers does traffic-shaping. Sounds like I might want to avoid Rogers if I can. A few more questions about Rogers: do they block incoming traffic on ports other than 80 and 8080? If I leave my machine on all the time and want to SSH in remotely (and run a web server on a non-standard port), will they crack down on this? I know Shaw here nor Videotron in Quebec ever gave me problems, but if Rogers will then I might consider my other options. I'd really rather avoid DSL.. who provides it there, Bell? I'd like opinions on that-- has anybody done the switch from one to the other? If so, why, and was it worth it? Marc -- Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes, because then you're a mile away.. and you've got their shoes ... so you can say whatever you want to. -- Unknown -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 14:36:48 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:36:48 -0400 Subject: ISP Recommendation? (was "Rogers Breaks DNS") In-Reply-To: <4881FB28.1060208-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4881FB28.1060208@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <4881FC00.5040005@utoronto.ca> Marc Lanctot wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a >> website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo >> search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and >> been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". >> >> Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the >> WORST possible Internet service in Canada? >> > > Ouch! > > I'll be moving to Etobicoke soon (from Alberta).. if I want cable, do I > have a choice (ie. Cogeco?). I've also heard Rogers does > traffic-shaping. Sounds like I might want to avoid Rogers if I can. > > A few more questions about Rogers: do they block incoming traffic on > ports other than 80 and 8080? If I leave my machine on all the time and > want to SSH in remotely (and run a web server on a non-standard port), > will they crack down on this? I know Shaw here nor Videotron in Quebec > ever gave me problems, but if Rogers will then I might consider my other > options. > > I'd really rather avoid DSL.. who provides it there, Bell? I'd like > opinions on that-- has anybody done the switch from one to the other? If > so, why, and was it worth it? TekSavvy++ :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 14:42:07 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:42:07 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <4881F8F6.9000209-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4881F8F6.9000209@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > There are plenty of DNS servers you can query instead of Rogers'. If you're running a local LAN, it makes a lot of sense to run an instance of BIND9, so that you're, on the one hand, heading to the True Authorities (e.g. - the 13 root servers), and then cacheing requests. djbdns may also be an option. There's some complexity to configuring your own zones, but using it for cacheing isn't rocket surgery. That way, any such nonsense can't possibly affect you. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 14:55:52 2008 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 10:55:52 -0400 Subject: ISP Recommendation? (was "Rogers Breaks DNS") In-Reply-To: <4881FC00.5040005-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4881FB28.1060208@ualberta.ca> <4881FC00.5040005@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <6A37F9F0-8783-46D3-8DD3-8A30812D26C4@gmail.com> On 19-Jul-08, at 10:36 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Marc Lanctot wrote: >> Colin McGregor wrote: >>> Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip >>> to a >>> website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo >>> search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and >>> been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". >>> >>> Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the >>> WORST possible Internet service in Canada? >>> >> Ouch! >> I'll be moving to Etobicoke soon (from Alberta).. if I want cable, >> do I have a choice (ie. Cogeco?). I've also heard Rogers does >> traffic-shaping. Sounds like I might want to avoid Rogers if I can. >> A few more questions about Rogers: do they block incoming traffic >> on ports other than 80 and 8080? If I leave my machine on all the >> time and want to SSH in remotely (and run a web server on a non- >> standard port), will they crack down on this? I know Shaw here nor >> Videotron in Quebec ever gave me problems, but if Rogers will then >> I might consider my other options. >> I'd really rather avoid DSL.. who provides it there, Bell? I'd like >> opinions on that-- has anybody done the switch from one to the >> other? If so, why, and was it worth it? > > TekSavvy++ :) I tried TekSavvy over Rogers for a while, and ended up going back. Yes, the torrents were faster (slightly) on TS, but the overall speed was dramatically better with Rogers. I may have my issues with the company, but you just can't beat 10Mbps service, and TS just doesn't offer that. Cheers, Aaron > > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 15:30:16 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:30:16 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48820888.60802@dinamis.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a > website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo > search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and > been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". > > Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the > WORST possible Internet service in Canada? > > Colin McGregor > > P.S.: Sorry if I sound a little grumpy, but I have been running into a > number of bits recently where stuff was seemingly broken by design, > and it annoys me... One man's "broken by design" is another man's "feature". For the average person, this is a feature. For persnickety geeks, this is a problem. Whom do you think Rogers targets? For the majority of users, like traffic shaping, I'll bet this is a non-issue. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 17:45:47 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:45:47 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4882284B.30105@alteeve.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a > website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo > search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and > been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". > > Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the > WORST possible Internet service in Canada? > > Colin McGregor > > P.S.: Sorry if I sound a little grumpy, but I have been running into a > number of bits recently where stuff was seemingly broken by design, > and it annoys me... In the mean time, you are welcome to point at my DNS servers: 192.139.81.119 192.139.81.120 I am sure there are many other TLUG'ers with DNS servers you could point at, too. Cheers. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 20:05:03 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:05:03 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <4882284B.30105-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4882284B.30105@alteeve.com> Message-ID: > In the mean time, you are welcome to point at my DNS servers: > > 192.139.81.119 > 192.139.81.120 That is great. It is wonderfull that people are so generous on this list to offer their own services for free. However, DNS is critical in Internet security chain. While I do certainly would trust almost anyone on this list offering their DNS servise - thats however not how things are supposed to work. You or someone else may have an entry in your bind9 to point me to your servers instead to www.royalbank.com. Thats why we are supposed to use DNS of a "recognized" ISP, not of someone who just randomly offers the servise on the Internet. Rogers is doing an enourmosly silly thing. They cut the branch on which they are sitting. They show how stupid they are, how ignorant they are, how they do not respect certain well established rules of behavior on the Internet, and how much they lack the basics of security understanding. They, probably unwillingly and not being aware of, are in fact helping terrorists. When they fool people, they at the same time make people not to trust the Internet. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 20:20:54 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:20:54 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48824CA6.9080308@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a > website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo > search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and > been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". > > Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the > WORST possible Internet service in Canada? > > They have a way to go to beat Sympatico! > Colin McGregor > > P.S.: Sorry if I sound a little grumpy, but I have been running into a > number of bits recently where stuff was seemingly broken by design, > and it annoys me... > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 20:25:09 2008 From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:25:09 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: References: <4882284B.30105@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Rogers is doing an enourmosly silly thing. They cut the branch on > which they are sitting. They show how stupid they are, how ignorant > they are, how they do not respect certain well established rules of > behavior on the Internet, and how much they lack the basics of > security understanding. They, probably unwillingly and not being aware > of, are in fact helping terrorists. > > When they fool people, they at the same time make people not to trust > the Internet. This is not new. The economist Thorstein Veblen has documented "the businessman as saboteur".. I think it was in the early chapters of _The Theory of Business Enterprise_, in 1904. Rogers is creating billable events as they sell the mis-hits for money. Mel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 20:32:05 2008 From: echapin-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:32:05 -0400 Subject: ISP Recommendation? (was "Rogers Breaks DNS") In-Reply-To: <6A37F9F0-8783-46D3-8DD3-8A30812D26C4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4881FB28.1060208@ualberta.ca> <4881FC00.5040005@utoronto.ca> <6A37F9F0-8783-46D3-8DD3-8A30812D26C4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48824F45.5010402@teksavvy.com> At Teksavvy you get straight answers by people who understand English. Aaron Vegh wrote: > On 19-Jul-08, at 10:36 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > >> Marc Lanctot wrote: >>> Colin McGregor wrote: >>>> Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a >>>> website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo >>>> search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and >>>> been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". >>>> >>>> Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the >>>> WORST possible Internet service in Canada? >>>> >>> Ouch! >>> I'll be moving to Etobicoke soon (from Alberta).. if I want cable, do >>> I have a choice (ie. Cogeco?). I've also heard Rogers does >>> traffic-shaping. Sounds like I might want to avoid Rogers if I can. >>> A few more questions about Rogers: do they block incoming traffic on >>> ports other than 80 and 8080? If I leave my machine on all the time >>> and want to SSH in remotely (and run a web server on a non-standard >>> port), will they crack down on this? I know Shaw here nor Videotron >>> in Quebec ever gave me problems, but if Rogers will then I might >>> consider my other options. >>> I'd really rather avoid DSL.. who provides it there, Bell? I'd like >>> opinions on that-- has anybody done the switch from one to the other? >>> If so, why, and was it worth it? >> >> TekSavvy++ :) > > I tried TekSavvy over Rogers for a while, and ended up going back. Yes, > the torrents were faster (slightly) on TS, but the overall speed was > dramatically better with Rogers. I may have my issues with the company, > but you just can't beat 10Mbps service, and TS just doesn't offer that. > > Cheers, > Aaron > >> >> >> Jamon >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 20:35:12 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:35:12 -0400 Subject: ISP Recommendation? (was "Rogers Breaks DNS") In-Reply-To: <4881FB28.1060208-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4881FB28.1060208@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <48825000.5060908@rogers.com> Marc Lanctot wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a >> website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo >> search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and >> been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". >> >> Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the >> WORST possible Internet service in Canada? >> > > Ouch! > > I'll be moving to Etobicoke soon (from Alberta).. if I want cable, do > I have a choice (ie. Cogeco?). I've also heard Rogers does > traffic-shaping. Sounds like I might want to avoid Rogers if I can. > > A few more questions about Rogers: do they block incoming traffic on > ports other than 80 and 8080? If I leave my machine on all the time > and want to SSH in remotely (and run a web server on a non-standard > port), will they crack down on this? I know Shaw here nor Videotron in > Quebec ever gave me problems, but if Rogers will then I might consider > my other options. > > I'd really rather avoid DSL.. who provides it there, Bell? I'd like > opinions on that-- has anybody done the switch from one to the other? > If so, why, and was it worth it? > > Marc > Rogers is the only cable provider in Toronto & vicinity. Cogeco is in Oakville etc. I have no problem connecting home with ssh or OpenVPN. They also provide an alternate smtp port, so that you can access their server from other networks. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 20:36:25 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:36:25 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48825049.5020301@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a > website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo > search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and > been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". > > Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the > WORST possible Internet service in Canada? > > Colin McGregor > > It is possible to turn it off, by going to options.search.rogers.com. However, it does so by leaving a cookie on your computer. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 20:47:36 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:47:36 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <4882284B.30105-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4882284B.30105@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <488252E8.6030805@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a >> website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo >> search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and >> been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". >> >> Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the >> WORST possible Internet service in Canada? >> >> Colin McGregor >> >> P.S.: Sorry if I sound a little grumpy, but I have been running into a >> number of bits recently where stuff was seemingly broken by design, >> and it annoys me... > > In the mean time, you are welcome to point at my DNS servers: > > 192.139.81.119 > 192.139.81.120 > > I am sure there are many other TLUG'ers with DNS servers you could > point at, too. I have one at work at 192.168.30.254. Feel free... ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From walterdnes-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 21:18:45 2008 From: walterdnes-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:18:45 -0400 Subject: Looking for dialup hardware solution Message-ID: <20080719211845.GB32715@waltdnes.org> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:45:04PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote > Being a pack-rat has occasional advantages. Digging through my > collection of old computer peripherals, I discovered a PCI modem. This > was proabably from my 1999 Dell which died on me last summer. I stuck > it in, and it works. Cancel the cancellation. The 1-year-old Dell (my "production machine") with the 9-year-old PCI modem works OK. The new Dell (my "hot backup") appears to have a Conexant "Winmodem", bleagh. I have better things to do with my time than trying to get a Winmodem running under linux. Is there any place in the GTA I can pick up a MultiTech MT9234MU in person? 2nd-best is delivery via Canada Post. There's a locked parcel box in my condo building, where Canada Post can drop off small packages sent via mail. This beats having to take a whole day off work sitting in my living room waiting by the phone for a courier to ring me from downstairs. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 21:53:10 2008 From: tlug-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA at public.gmane.org (Slack Rat) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:53:10 +0200 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: (Zbigniew Koziol's message of "Sat\, 19 Jul 2008 16\:05\:03 -0400") References: <4882284B.30105@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <87tzel8rsp.fsf@azurservers.com> "Zbigniew Koziol" a ?crit profondement: | > In the mean time, you are welcome to point at my DNS servers: | > | > 192.139.81.119 | > 192.139.81.120 | | That is great. It is wonderfull that people are so generous on this | list to offer their own services for free. | | However, DNS is critical in Internet security chain. While I do | certainly would trust almost anyone on this list offering their DNS | servise - thats however not how things are supposed to work. You or | someone else may have an entry in your bind9 to point me to your | servers instead to www.royalbank.com. Thats why we are supposed to use | DNS of a "recognized" ISP, not of someone who just randomly offers the | servise on the Internet. Open DNS seems to be a reasonable solution http://www.opendns.com/ The problem is that if you open an account, the email verification comes from a Performance Systems International INC IP and many folks have 38.0.0.0/8 blocked as spammers. -- Slackrat 9/11 was an Inside Job -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 21:57:47 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:57:47 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <87tzel8rsp.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <4882284B.30105@alteeve.com> <87tzel8rsp.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <4882635B.1050106@dinamis.com> Slack Rat wrote: > Open DNS seems to be a reasonable solution > > http://www.opendns.com/ > > The problem is that if you open an account, the email verification > comes from a Performance Systems International INC IP and many folks > have 38.0.0.0/8 blocked as spammers. I've used OpenDNS. They also show a search page for domains that won't resolve. That's their revenue model. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 19 23:02:18 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:02:18 -0400 Subject: ISP Recommendation? (was "Rogers Breaks DNS") In-Reply-To: <48824F45.5010402-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4881FB28.1060208@ualberta.ca> <4881FC00.5040005@utoronto.ca> <6A37F9F0-8783-46D3-8DD3-8A30812D26C4@gmail.com> <48824F45.5010402@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807191602k3d02d18es58e93f276448a52e@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Elliott Chapin wrote: > At Teksavvy you get straight answers by people who understand English. A most unfortunate state of affaire (echem) 's. Err. Ok, I understand the "truth" of the situation, but that doesn't make it suck any less. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 02:27:37 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:27:37 -0400 Subject: ISP Recommendation? (was "Rogers Breaks DNS") In-Reply-To: <4881FC00.5040005-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4881FB28.1060208@ualberta.ca> <4881FC00.5040005@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807191927s55b1bc65h37345659be1f5748@mail.gmail.com> Teksavvy's service is great. But they do share Bell's lines in many/most places. Bell sucks, and their service as a customer of a 3rd party is even more suckish. You might want to check into what the status is of DSL in whatever neighborhood you're moving too. In mine the service sucks, not because of Teksavvy (which has smart staff, quick answers, and overall good service thus far), but because of Bell's overextended line-runs from the CO can leave you with some suckish speeds that your actual ISP cannot remedy. On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Marc Lanctot wrote: >> >> Colin McGregor wrote: >>> >>> Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a >>> website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo >>> search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and >>> been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". >>> >>> Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the >>> WORST possible Internet service in Canada? >>> >> >> Ouch! >> >> I'll be moving to Etobicoke soon (from Alberta).. if I want cable, do I >> have a choice (ie. Cogeco?). I've also heard Rogers does traffic-shaping. >> Sounds like I might want to avoid Rogers if I can. >> >> A few more questions about Rogers: do they block incoming traffic on ports >> other than 80 and 8080? If I leave my machine on all the time and want to >> SSH in remotely (and run a web server on a non-standard port), will they >> crack down on this? I know Shaw here nor Videotron in Quebec ever gave me >> problems, but if Rogers will then I might consider my other options. >> >> I'd really rather avoid DSL.. who provides it there, Bell? I'd like >> opinions on that-- has anybody done the switch from one to the other? If so, >> why, and was it worth it? > > TekSavvy++ :) > > Jamon > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 02:29:08 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:29:08 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <4882284B.30105-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4882284B.30105@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807191929u3085dad2tdb18c9cc92ce13fd@mail.gmail.com> Or mine 192.168.253.1 10.10.10.1 (yes, that was intended as a joke) On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a >> website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo >> search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and >> been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". >> >> Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the >> WORST possible Internet service in Canada? >> >> Colin McGregor >> >> P.S.: Sorry if I sound a little grumpy, but I have been running into a >> number of bits recently where stuff was seemingly broken by design, >> and it annoys me... > > In the mean time, you are welcome to point at my DNS servers: > > 192.139.81.119 > 192.139.81.120 > > I am sure there are many other TLUG'ers with DNS servers you could point at, > too. > > Cheers. > > Madi > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 09:13:45 2008 From: lanctot-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marc Lanctot) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 03:13:45 -0600 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807191929u3085dad2tdb18c9cc92ce13fd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4882284B.30105@alteeve.com> <3a97ef0807191929u3085dad2tdb18c9cc92ce13fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <488301C9.40103@ualberta.ca> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Or mine > 192.168.253.1 > 10.10.10.1 > > (yes, that was intended as a joke) Ha ha! That one really hit 127.0.0.1 ! :) Check it out... this subject made Slashdot: http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/07/19/158208.shtml There are a lot of good points in the comments already. Marc -- Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes, because then you're a mile away.. and you've got their shoes ... so you can say whatever you want to. -- Unknown -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 15:31:15 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <48825049.5020301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48825049.5020301@rogers.com> Message-ID: | From: James Knott | Colin McGregor wrote: | > Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a | > website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo | > search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and | > been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". !!!! Bad Rogers. Bad bad Rogers. | It is possible to turn it off, by going to options.search.rogers.com. | However, it does so by leaving a cookie on | your computer. I don't understand this. My DNS queries don't come from a browser, they come from a caching name server. How can Rogers look for cookies in my caching name server? I just did a few experiments. Summary: - The crap answers are real crap. Not even under Rogers control. - If you query via TCP, you don't get the crap. Rogers does seems to generate crap answers. I'm using "-t a" because otherwise host(1) will sometimes also query for AAA and MX records -- this is not documented in the manpage so I had to figure it out using tcpdump. Grrr. $ host -t a www.xxxqqqyyy.com 64.71.255.198 Using domain server: Name: 64.71.255.198 Address: 64.71.255.198#53 Aliases: www.xxxqqqyyy.com has address 8.15.7.107 www.xxxqqqyyy.com has address 63.251.179.17 www.xxxqqqyyy.com has address 65.200.200.47 But if you query via TCP (instead of the normal UDP) you get good answers: $ host -t a -T www.xxxqqqyyy.com 64.71.255.198 Using domain server: Name: 64.71.255.198 Address: 64.71.255.198#53 Aliases: Host www.xxxqqqyyy.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) dig(1) gives some gory details of the crap: $ dig @64.71.255.198 www.xxxqqqyyy.com a ; <<>> DiG 9.3.4-P1 <<>> @64.71.255.198 www.xxxqqqyyy.com a ; (1 server found) ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 56631 ;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;www.xxxqqqyyy.com. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: www.xxxqqqyyy.com. 60 IN A 8.15.7.107 www.xxxqqqyyy.com. 60 IN A 63.251.179.17 www.xxxqqqyyy.com. 60 IN A 65.200.200.47 ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: www.xxxqqqyyy.com. 65535 IN NS WSC2.JOMAX.NET. www.xxxqqqyyy.com. 65535 IN NS WSC1.JOMAX.NET. ;; Query time: 74 msec ;; SERVER: 64.71.255.198#53(64.71.255.198) ;; WHEN: Sun Jul 20 10:33:53 2008 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 139 These crap answers are not "owned" by Rogers. None of the IP addresses in the answer A records are reverse mapped. whois on each is interesting. 8.15.7.107: Level 3 Communications, Inc. LVLT-ORG-8-8 (NET-8-0-0-0-1) 8.0.0.0 - 8.255.255.255 Co-Location.com Inc. LVLT-COLOC-1-8-15-7-96 (NET-8-15-7-96-1) 8.15.7.96 - 8.15.7.127 63.251.179.17: Internap Network Services Corporation NETBLK-PNAP-11-99 (NET-63-251-0-0-1) 63.251.0.0 - 63.251.255.255 Internet Search Services INAP-DEN-INTERNETSEARCH-16579 (NET-63-251-179-0-1) 63.251.179.0 - 63.251.179.63 65.200.200.47: MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business UUNET65 (NET-65-192-0-0-1) 65.192.0.0 - 65.223.255.255 Paxfire, Inc. UU-65-200-200-32-D4 (NET-65-200-200-32-1) 65.200.200.32 - 65.200.200.63 JOMAX.NET.: [Querying whois.godaddy.com] [whois.godaddy.com] No match for "JOMAX.NET." in the registrar database. A few more experiments show that xxxqqqyyy.com gets the same results as www.xxxqqqyyy.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 15:40:00 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ISP Recommendation? (was "Rogers Breaks DNS") In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807191927s55b1bc65h37345659be1f5748-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4881FB28.1060208@ualberta.ca> <4881FC00.5040005@utoronto.ca> <3a97ef0807191927s55b1bc65h37345659be1f5748@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: | From: Tyler Aviss | Teksavvy's service is great. But they do share Bell's lines in | many/most places. Bell sucks, and their service as a customer of a 3rd | party is even more suckish. Agreed. | You might want to check into what the status is of DSL in whatever | neighborhood you're moving too. In mine the service sucks, not because | of Teksavvy (which has smart staff, quick answers, and overall good | service thus far), but because of Bell's overextended line-runs from | the CO can leave you with some suckish speeds that your actual ISP | cannot remedy. Right. My line to the CO (Central Office) was long and nasty so I had marginal ADSL service for years. My ADSL service is through Look.ca. But they use Bell lines. I'm in the Toronto, not the countryside. Bell recently upgraded my line, probably with a remote, but I got no notice. Until an encrypted-by-marketing Sympatico ad for ADSL2+ arrived. Somehow, even my modem profile got updated. I never noticed the upgrade since I don't actually use the ADSL much. My guess is that many people's ADSL will be upgraded in the next year or so. Without notice. And sales staff won't know. Perhaps a question that might tell you the answer is to ask Sympatico if you can get ADSL2 -- they call it "Total Internet Max". -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 18:10:23 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:10:23 -0400 Subject: Linus on security and OpenBSD Message-ID: <48837F8F.70206@telly.org> As usual, one can count on Mr. T to offer an interesting and novel perspective (even of you disagree with it): http://www.donkeyonawaffle.org/index.py/humor/mast-monkeys.modern - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 18:16:21 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:16:21 -0400 Subject: Linus on security and OpenBSD In-Reply-To: <48837F8F.70206-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48837F8F.70206@telly.org> Message-ID: <488380F5.7050407@utoronto.ca> Evan Leibovitch wrote: > As usual, one can count on Mr. T to offer an interesting and novel > perspective (even of you disagree with it): > > http://www.donkeyonawaffle.org/index.py/humor/mast-monkeys.modern He also recently encouraged Digg users to digg his dig at them, calling them Wanking Walruses: http://lwn.net/Articles/290498 It worked.. 2777 diggs, made it onto the front page of reddit too. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 19:28:29 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:28:29 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0807180740m28a734cap29cfe9931929cbff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080720192829.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 01:34:49AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > It seems to me that the whole "abject orientation" fixation has been a > terrible distraction from the *real* problems of computer science. > > OO is simply a way of structuring the relationships between functions > and data, which is merely a programming technique. You can do it in > any language, if you plan for it a little. It's even doable in > assembly language, albeit that's not likely a way people will be too > excited about doing much of anything :-). If you want to help someone learn to program, then help them learn math and forget object orientation ever was thought of. Programming is about specifying what has to be accomplished, not controlling which bit is used to store what every moment in time. Or at least it should be. > There are a number of useful paradigms that OO seems to distract people from: > > - As Lennart observes, functional programming is of considerable > interest. It allows *provably* establishing independence of instances > of functions, which is *staggeringly* interesting as the need to > enable parallel execution grows (in keeping with the number of CPU > cores on each motherboard). > > This is why people have been taking interest in Erlang, of late; even > though it has the unusual syntax of Prolog, its capability to > guarantee safety of running functions in parallel is exceedingly > useful in building highly concurrent applications. It was created for > coding phone switches, certainly an example of hefty concurrency. It also has a heavy interest in being able to prove that each line can be handled independantly of the other lines. Makes scaling to more lines simpler. Being able to test a function because it takes arguments, can not in any way change the value of its inputs or any other state of the system, and simply returns new data is very useful, Testing and proving the functionality function by function rather than trying to test a program as a whole is a lot simpler. > Harnessing parallelism is one of the "grand challenges." OO hasn't > got anything much to contribute in that regard, conceptually. Indeed, > by binding state and methods together, implementations frequently add > to the challenges, as opposed to helping to resolve them. Certainly most OO languages make this much harder. I still think Java is fundamentally a disaster by design. > - Typical OO implementations focus heavily on building data type > taxonomies, and then on building per-type sets of methods. ML (yet > another flavour of functional languages) instead uses type inference, > with type polymorphism, which chops out the need for whole branches of > method taxonomies. I love the strong type system in ML, and the fact that lists are native. All languages should have native list support. > - Another of the "grand categories" of solutions is declarative > programming. Notable instances include SQL, Prolog, Erlang, and > Haskell, most of which, again, are functional languages. The idea > here is to write programs that ask to calculate a result, as opposed > to indicating how to do so. My wife says ML reminds her of prolog. I can't see the relation myself, but then again she is much better at prolog than me byt a lot. > It is becoming increasingly clear that for a system to be deeply and > tightly coupled to "object orientation" is, anymore, something of a > mistake. Absolutely. Microsoft even created their F# language with a clear objective of making parallel execution simpler to achieve. > That's not prejudice against Smalltalk, by any means; I did *not* > pre-judge it in any way. I watched it, with interest, when Byte > presented on it back in 1981. It was not until rather more recently > that I had opportunity to try out Smalltalk in running form, and I > have always found myself disappointed at how the learning curve of the > environment discouraged me from getting to the point of trying any of > the things that had always seemed interesting about it. > > If anything, I have been predisposed to look favorably on Smalltalk. > > But its design isn't cognizant of the 30 years worth of new concepts. Smalltalk is an interesting system, although I doubt it has anything to offer when it comes to taking advantage of future computer designs. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 19:29:22 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:29:22 -0400 Subject: interested in Ottawa Linux Symposium In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080720192922.GP31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 12:36:04AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I'm going to OLS next week. > https://www.linuxsymposium.org/2008/summary.php > > I think that I've been to all but one of them which shows that I think > that they are worthwhile. > > A friend was going with me but has had to bow out. Is anyone > interested in buying from him some or all of: > > - Via Rail return ticket (going Tuesday afternoon, returning Saturday > evening). I will be on these trains. This means missing the > mini-summits. > > - one bedroom of a suite at the University of Ottawa (I'm in the other > bedroom) > > - conference registration (at the earlybird rate, I think) > > If so, please contact me. > > Feel free to pass this on. Except to axe murderers. Already going. See you there I suppose. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 19:33:48 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:33:48 -0400 Subject: ISP Recommendation? (was "Rogers Breaks DNS") In-Reply-To: <4881FB28.1060208-yfeSBMgouQgsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4881FB28.1060208@ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <20080720193348.GQ31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 08:33:12AM -0600, Marc Lanctot wrote: > I'll be moving to Etobicoke soon (from Alberta).. if I want cable, do I > have a choice (ie. Cogeco?). I've also heard Rogers does > traffic-shaping. Sounds like I might want to avoid Rogers if I can. For cable rogers is all there is in toronto. The do shape in some cases it seems although it is hard to tell sometimes. > A few more questions about Rogers: do they block incoming traffic on > ports other than 80 and 8080? If I leave my machine on all the time and > want to SSH in remotely (and run a web server on a non-standard port), > will they crack down on this? I know Shaw here nor Videotron in Quebec > ever gave me problems, but if Rogers will then I might consider my other > options. ssh works fine. I don't run a web server since I am pretty sure rogers hates that. I know incoming smtp is blocked so a mail server would be a problem (and certainly not permitted by rogers). I have heard of a few people getting in trouble with rogers over servers, although whether they scan for them anymore (they used to as did shaw before rogers swapped with them) I don't know. Certainly if they see a lot of traffic they may check and then complain. > I'd really rather avoid DSL.. who provides it there, Bell? I'd like > opinions on that-- has anybody done the switch from one to the other? If > so, why, and was it worth it? Lots of companies offer DSL service, but almost all of it goes through Bell for some of it and they recently decided that they should be allowed to shape the backend traffic to the other ISPs. Now Montreal has multiple ISPs that offer ADSL2 at prices similar to what toronto has for ADSL. That's not fair. :) -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 19:40:40 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:40:40 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <48825049.5020301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <48825049.5020301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080720194040.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 04:36:25PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > >Just to note, Rogers has decided to break DNS. As of now any trip to a > >website with an invalid URL and you will be taken to a Rogers/Yahoo > >search website (with Rogers adverts.). I have called, complained and > >been told "that is the way it is supposed to work". > > > >Is it my imagination or is Rogers totally determined to offer the > >WORST possible Internet service in Canada? > > > >Colin McGregor > > > > > > It is possible to turn it off, by going to options.search.rogers.com. > However, it does so by leaving a > cookie on your computer. Hmm, so if I enter www.gogggle.ca in opera, I get a 404. If I do it in firefox I get the rogers/yahoo search page. WTF? Also the rogers dns returns the same 3 addresses for all invalid searches: # host www.gogggle.ca www.gogggle.ca has address 8.15.7.107 www.gogggle.ca has address 63.251.179.17 www.gogggle.ca has address 65.200.200.47 Host www.gogggle.ca not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) Host www.gogggle.ca not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) So does it have an address or does it not? What a weird result. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 19:48:58 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:48:58 -0400 Subject: Linus on security and OpenBSD In-Reply-To: <48837F8F.70206-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48837F8F.70206@telly.org> Message-ID: <034301c8eaa1$a7abaf60$f7030e20$@com> For what its worth, I understand where he is coming from. Especially the part about the OpenBSD crowd. OpenBSD ships with its own version of DHCPD. If you read the tail of the man pages here is what it says. " BUGS We realize that it would be nice if one could send a SIGHUP to the server and have it reload the database. This is not technically impossible, but it would require a great deal of work, our resources are extremely limit- ed, and they can be better spent elsewhere. So please don't complain about this on the mailing list unless you're prepared to fund a project to implement this feature, or prepared to do it yourself." > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Evan > Leibovitch > Sent: July 20, 2008 2:10 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Linus on security and OpenBSD > > > As usual, one can count on Mr. T to offer an interesting and novel > perspective (even of you disagree with it): > > http://www.donkeyonawaffle.org/index.py/humor/mast-monkeys.modern > > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 19:58:06 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <20080720194040.GR31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48825049.5020301@rogers.com> <20080720194040.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Hmm, so if I enter www.gogggle.ca in opera, I get a 404. If I do it in | firefox I get the rogers/yahoo search page. WTF? That's mysterious. Do investigate (tcpdump?). | Also the rogers dns returns the same 3 addresses for all invalid | searches: | # host www.gogggle.ca | www.gogggle.ca has address 8.15.7.107 | www.gogggle.ca has address 63.251.179.17 | www.gogggle.ca has address 65.200.200.47 | Host www.gogggle.ca not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) | Host www.gogggle.ca not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) | | So does it have an address or does it not? What a weird result. As I mentioned in an earlier mail, an undocumented feature of host(1) is that it looks for A, AAAA, and MX records. The last two messages are for the AAAA and MX records. This would be nice if the output told you what was queried for. Use "-t a" to limit the query to A records. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 19:59:07 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <20080720194040.GR31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <48825049.5020301@rogers.com> <20080720194040.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: | From: Lennart Sorensen | Hmm, so if I enter www.gogggle.ca in opera, I get a 404. If I do it in | firefox I get the rogers/yahoo search page. WTF? Another thought: is opera using TCP for DNS queries? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 20:03:41 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:03:41 -0400 Subject: Linus on security and OpenBSD In-Reply-To: <48837F8F.70206-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48837F8F.70206@telly.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > As usual, one can count on Mr. T to offer an interesting and novel > perspective (even of you disagree with it): > > http://www.donkeyonawaffle.org/index.py/humor/mast-monkeys.modern He has the habit of being interestingly undiplomatic, on occasion. It's definitely not the same sort of "undiplomatic" that required that NetBSD split off into two communities - *that* involved genuine nastiness. I think that, in this case, "Mr T" is not wrong. a) Other sorts of bugs are equally worthy of attention b) It's not obvious that security is gained by pointing out exactly how to identify which systems haven't yet been fixed c) Distribution makers that *only* look for security fixes miss other stability issues One of the not-insignificant aspects of security is that the service must be available, and *any* bug that adversely affects performance or stability is relevant to that. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 22:59:42 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:59:42 -0400 Subject: How to make eth0 and ppp0 co-exist Message-ID: <20080720225942.GA13413@waltdnes.org> Today's problem... you have a machine that is part of a LAN. It also has a dialup modem. You want to be able to dial up and fetch email, or do some websurfing, and then log off, all without disrupting your LAN connection. Maybe you even want to dialup from machine A and download a file from the net directly to a remote directory (NFS or SAMBA) that is mounted on machine B. Yes folks, it can be done. Here is how I do it... - My little LAN is 192.168.123.248 netmask 255.255.255.248, which can also be written as 192.168.123.248/29 (YES!) - The gateway address (i.e. the router) is 192.168.123.254 Your LAN and gateway will probably be different. Change to match your system. - In Gentoo, eth0 and its routes are defined in /etc/conf.d/net Your distro may use different files and/or syntax. Change as appropriate for your system. Note the 2 routes... config_eth0="192.168.123.250 broadcast 192.168.123.255 netmask 255.255.255.248 mtu 1452" routes_eth0=( "default via 192.168.123.254 metric 2" "192.168.123.248/29 via 192.168.123.254 metric 0" ) Where more than 1 route can get you to a destination, the "tiebreaker" is the lowest ("least expensive") metric. The default route (if no other way is available) is via my ADSL router (192.168.123.254). It has metric 2. Packets destined for my little LAN go via the higher priority (metric 0) route. Here's ifconfig (minus the lo info) and "route -n" output... [d530][root][~] ifconfig eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX inet addr:192.168.123.250 Bcast:192.168.123.255 Mask:255.255.255.248 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1452 Metric:1 RX packets:1069331 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:1420677 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 RX bytes:461720479 (440.3 Mb) TX bytes:1652832534 (1576.2 Mb) Memory:fdfc0000-fdfe0000 [d530][root][~] route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 192.168.123.248 192.168.123.254 255.255.255.248 UG 0 0 0 eth0 192.168.123.248 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.248 U 0 0 0 eth0 127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo 0.0.0.0 192.168.123.254 0.0.0.0 UG 2 0 0 eth0 When I dialup, the interface and route situation changes as follows... [d530][root][~] ifconfig eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX inet addr:192.168.123.250 Bcast:192.168.123.255 Mask:255.255.255.248 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1452 Metric:1 RX packets:1071006 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:1422095 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:100 RX bytes:463287074 (441.8 Mb) TX bytes:1653016628 (1576.4 Mb) Memory:fdfc0000-fdfe0000 ppp0 Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol inet addr:208.72.122.229 P-t-P:208.72.120.40 Mask:255.255.255.255 UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:23 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:43 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:3 RX bytes:19137 (18.6 Kb) TX bytes:5291 (5.1 Kb) [d530][root][~] route -n Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 208.72.120.40 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 ppp0 192.168.123.248 192.168.123.254 255.255.255.248 UG 0 0 0 eth0 192.168.123.248 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.248 U 0 0 0 eth0 127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo 0.0.0.0 208.72.120.40 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 ppp0 0.0.0.0 192.168.123.254 0.0.0.0 UG 2 0 0 eth0 The route associated with ppp0 has priority over all other routes, except the one to my little LAN. So my computer can talk to the LAN and to the internet simultaneously. When I disconnect the dialup session, things go back to their previous state. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 23:15:10 2008 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:15:10 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <20080720192829.GO31125-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0807180740m28a734cap29cfe9931929cbff@mail.gmail.com> <20080720192829.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4883C6FE.9090905@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > My wife says ML reminds her of prolog. I can't see the relation myself, > but then again she is much better at prolog than me byt a lot. > I gather from this that ML isn't Machine Language, but some programming language that shares the same contraction... Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 20 23:25:45 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:25:45 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <4883C6FE.9090905-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0807180740m28a734cap29cfe9931929cbff@mail.gmail.com> <20080720192829.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4883C6FE.9090905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 7:15 PM, Lance F. Squire wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >> My wife says ML reminds her of prolog. I can't see the relation myself, >> but then again she is much better at prolog than me byt a lot. >> > > > I gather from this that ML isn't Machine Language, but some programming > language that shares the same contraction... No contraction; ML is the full name. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ML_programming_language Historically, ML stands for metalanguage. It was created as a theorem proving language, but turned out to be useful for more than that. There are 3 common dialects: - Standard ML (there's a notable implementation called Standard ML of New Jersey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_ML - OCaml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCaml - F# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F_Sharp_programming_language -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 00:00:03 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:00:03 -0400 Subject: ISP Recommendation? (was "Rogers Breaks DNS") In-Reply-To: References: <4881FB28.1060208@ualberta.ca> <4881FC00.5040005@utoronto.ca> <3a97ef0807191927s55b1bc65h37345659be1f5748@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080721000003.GA15129@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 11:40:00AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote > My guess is that many people's ADSL will be upgraded in the next year > or so. Without notice. And sales staff won't know. Perhaps a > question that might tell you the answer is to ask Sympatico if you can > get ADSL2 -- they call it "Total Internet Max". Even "ADSL-lite" has been upgraded without advance notice. Teksavvy's (and and other Bell-dependant ADSL) "lite" connection is now 512 kbits up and 512 kbits down... look Ma, we got SDSL. I switched over when I found out about it. 5 megabits is overkill for me, and I do have things to do with the $5/month I save (after the $25 switching fee). I'm listening to internet radio on Live365.com as I type this email, so 512 knits is OK for me. The only problem I've had with Live365.com is ridiculous packet loss on Level3.net in the western half of the USA. My traceroute [v0.73] d530 (0.0.0.0) Sun Jul 20 19:36:10 2008 Keys: Help Display mode Restart statistics Order of fields quit Packets Pings Host Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1. speedtouch.lan 0.0% 47 6.7 44.5 1.2 97.7 37.0 2. erx02.tor.pppoe.ca 0.0% 47 13.4 14.4 12.5 21.7 2.1 3. ae0-2120.border1.pppoe.ca 6.4% 47 14.5 14.3 12.1 43.8 4.6 4. 65.39.198.249 0.0% 47 13.2 20.5 12.7 86.8 19.0 5. oc48-po6-0.tor-1yg-cor-1.peer1.n 8.5% 47 14.3 17.1 12.9 64.1 10.2 6. oc48-po5-0.chi-eqx-dis-1.peer1.n 10.6% 47 24.2 27.3 23.5 90.8 13.8 7. ge-6-23.car4.Chicago1.Level3.net 8.7% 46 26.3 32.7 25.5 97.9 15.4 8. ae-31-51.ebr1.Chicago1.Level3.ne 4.3% 46 38.9 33.2 26.7 52.2 5.1 9. ae-68.ebr3.Chicago1.Level3.net 0.0% 46 38.2 43.5 26.4 103.5 21.2 10. ae-3.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net 15.2% 46 71.8 64.0 58.3 72.7 4.6 11. ae-1-100.ebr1.Denver1.Level3.net 28.9% 46 61.4 65.4 59.3 75.4 4.4 12. ae-3.ebr2.SanJose1.Level3.net 37.0% 46 88.4 80.0 75.1 88.4 4.2 13. ae-72-72.csw2.SanJose1.Level3.ne 60.0% 46 75.1 84.2 75.1 139.1 14.2 14. ae-23-79.car3.SanJose1.Level3.ne 41.3% 46 104.4 89.4 75.5 150.1 21.2 15. LIVE365COM.car3.SanJose1.Level3. 62.2% 46 88.3 83.3 75.5 88.9 4.9 16. www.live365.com 41.3% 46 76.2 79.6 75.9 147.1 13.6 I find that Realplayer *ALWAYS* re-buffers. The best performance is with a script I cobbled together to use mpg123 as the "helper application" for .pls streams. No dropouts during normal listening and surfing, including Youtube. I only notice the slower speed when I load a very graphics-intensive web page. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 00:15:17 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:15:17 -0400 Subject: How to make eth0 and ppp0 co-exist In-Reply-To: <20080720225942.GA13413-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080720225942.GA13413@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: put enother network card.. Ok, I am stupid probably... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 01:06:35 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:06:35 -0400 Subject: OT: Trusted car repair in the northwest? Message-ID: <4883E11B.9000707@telly.org> Hi there. The muffler fell off my Dodge Caravan today while my son was driving it. This requires me to look for a trusted car repair outfit in the Northwest (as close to Keele/Finch as I can get). Dealers are a ripoff. I'd found Canadian Tire centres to be generally incompetent, but I haven't used any since I lived in Brampton. The only place I trust is a Green & Ross in Brampton, but that's a hike, and I don't like the G&R that's nearer here (Keele & hwy7). Does anyone have any suggestions? A trustworthy car repair is good as gold, so recommendations are welcomed. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 01:15:24 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:15:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Trusted car repair in the northwest? In-Reply-To: <4883E11B.9000707-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <4883E11B.9000707@telly.org> Message-ID: <1500.99.253.255.228.1216602924.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> I use Service Plus Automotive on Laird. 416-483-5566. I've found them to be completely reputable and reasonably priced. Bit of a hike from your location, however. In general, one can find a reliable garage through the Automobile Protection Agency. http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=196 Now I need to find someone reliable for some body work on a Honda Civic. Suggestions welcome. Peter > Hi there. > > The muffler fell off my Dodge Caravan today while my son was driving it. > This requires me to look for a trusted car repair outfit in the > Northwest (as close to Keele/Finch as I can get). > > Dealers are a ripoff. I'd found Canadian Tire centres to be generally > incompetent, but I haven't used any since I lived in Brampton. The only > place I trust is a Green & Ross in Brampton, but that's a hike, and I > don't like the G&R that's nearer here (Keele & hwy7). > > Does anyone have any suggestions? A trustworthy car repair is good as > gold, so recommendations are welcomed. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 06:12:52 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:12:52 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: References: <48825049.5020301@rogers.com> <20080720194040.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <488428E4.8080004@telly.org> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > | From: Lennart Sorensen > > | Hmm, so if I enter www.gogggle.ca in opera, I get a 404. If I do it in > | firefox I get the rogers/yahoo search page. WTF? > >From a end-user POV this isn't necessarily seen as a Bad Thing, as the search window that pops up does (or it did in my tests) suggest some reasonable close choices. In this sense (again, from the user's POV) it's only a variation of a smart browser's punting a 404 result to the search engine of _their_ choice. Having said this, Rogers' action does break a number of security measures. It's ill-advised and dumb but not evil. I'd feel much better if this was a "feature" that one could opt in or out of. - Evan PS: On the good side, when I tried to https://www.rogers.com/web/myrogers/myRogersHome and got a 500 error, it was a Red Hat/Apache system that was doing the duty. So at least there's some use of Linux servers in Rogers, which is more than I could ever find at Bell. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 06:21:53 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:21:53 -0400 Subject: How to make eth0 and ppp0 co-exist In-Reply-To: References: <20080720225942.GA13413@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20080721062153.GA16760@waltdnes.org> On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 08:15:17PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote > put enother network card.. Ok, I am stupid probably... The situation I need this for is when my ADSL is down (hence the dialup), but I don't want to disconnect from the LAN. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 06:23:17 2008 From: ispeters-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ian Petersen) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:23:17 -0700 Subject: OT: Trusted car repair in the northwest? In-Reply-To: <1500.99.253.255.228.1216602924.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <4883E11B.9000707@telly.org> <1500.99.253.255.228.1216602924.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <7ac602420807202323t26f4fd50odca5146a863c896c@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 6:15 PM, wrote: > Now I need to find someone reliable for some body work on a Honda Civic. > Suggestions welcome. I was really happy with Collex in Brampton near Steeles and the 410, but I opted to just get the dent painted so I don't have personal experience with their body work. My cousin was really happy with them though, and he's pretty hard to please. From your signature I assume Brampton's probaby too far away, but I can get you the phone number and address when I get back home on Wednesay if you want. Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 06:30:37 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:30:37 -0400 Subject: Is there an indirect index in Gnumeric? Message-ID: <20080721063037.GB16760@waltdnes.org> Situation... - spreadsheet cell A1 has value 25 - cell A2 has value 35 Is there a way to read those cells and use their values as indexes? E.g. suppose I want to take =average(C25:C35), without literally writing the values, by obtaining the range from the values in cells A1 and A2. -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 07:32:39 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 03:32:39 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <488428E4.8080004-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48825049.5020301@rogers.com> <20080720194040.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <488428E4.8080004@telly.org> Message-ID: > PS: On the good side, when I tried to > https://www.rogers.com/web/myrogers/myRogersHome and got a 500 error, it > was a Red Hat/Apache system that was doing the duty. So at least there's > some use of Linux servers in Rogers, which is more than I could ever > find at Bell. In older, better times, it was possible to configure browsers to display generic server response, with server error pages. Oh... OK, who cares... ? Well, I do. As a web developer, I do care. Now, all this is messed up. Not by Rogers only. Firefox also is not configurable for that anymore... zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 13:24:36 2008 From: lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:24:36 -0400 Subject: OT: Trusted car repair in the northwest? Message-ID: <380-22008712113243655@M2W037.mail2web.com> Evan: I have been using All Star in Finch and Weston are. I have been very happy with them. Call Alex Balogh at 416-746-2148. Ladislav Original Message: ----------------- From: Evan Leibovitch evan at telly.org Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:06:35 -0400 To: tlug at ss.org Subject: [TLUG]: OT: Trusted car repair in the northwest? Hi there. The muffler fell off my Dodge Caravan today while my son was driving it. This requires me to look for a trusted car repair outfit in the Northwest (as close to Keele/Finch as I can get). Dealers are a ripoff. I'd found Canadian Tire centres to be generally incompetent, but I haven't used any since I lived in Brampton. The only place I trust is a Green & Ross in Brampton, but that's a hike, and I don't like the G&R that's nearer here (Keele & hwy7). Does anyone have any suggestions? A trustworthy car repair is good as gold, so recommendations are welcomed. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 14:12:46 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:12:46 -0400 Subject: How to make eth0 and ppp0 co-exist In-Reply-To: <20080721062153.GA16760-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080720225942.GA13413@waltdnes.org> <20080721062153.GA16760@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4884995E.4040507@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 08:15:17PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote >> put enother network card.. Ok, I am stupid probably... > > The situation I need this for is when my ADSL is down (hence the > dialup), but I don't want to disconnect from the LAN. > Just create a script that changes the default route to the dial up ISP and back to the original, when disconnecting. The KDE dialer supports that. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 15:05:20 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:05:20 -0400 Subject: Is there an indirect index in Gnumeric? In-Reply-To: <20080721063037.GB16760-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20080721063037.GB16760@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Situation... > - spreadsheet cell A1 has value 25 > - cell A2 has value 35 > > Is there a way to read those cells and use their values as indexes? > E.g. suppose I want to take =average(C25:C35), without literally writing > the values, by obtaining the range from the values in cells A1 and A2. There is a LOOKUP function that allows you to search for values within a range. Unfortunately, that doesn't get you an average across a specified range :-(. Spreadsheets don't give this much of a degree of indirection :-(. It wouldn't be difficult to have a function to express this; you'd essentially define an AVERAGE function that has 4 parameters indicating the 4 corners of the rectangle. But it's not something that is supported in any spreadsheet I know of. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 15:50:37 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:50:37 -0400 Subject: [OT] Removing stuck screw in hard drive case Message-ID: <4884B04D.2060904@rogers.com> So I was all set to put a larger hard drive into my PS3 and install Linux, when I ran into a problem. The existing drive is screwed into a casing. And the screws are frozen and made of metal that seems a touch soft. I searched the net and found that this is a common problem. I called SONY's support, endured the 20 minute wait, and was pleased that they are sending a new case and screws to me. But I have to wait ... oh well. And I want to get the existing hard drive out of the case to use as a backup drive for my laptop. So, any suggestions on how to free the drive from the case are welcome. I want to save the drive, but the case and screws are expendable. Thanks Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rich+tlug-CncV1Atd1VQsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 16:16:36 2008 From: rich+tlug-CncV1Atd1VQsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Rich Lafferty) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:16:36 -0400 Subject: FreshBooks needs an intermediate Linux sysadmin Message-ID: <4884B664.2040404@lafferty.ca> Hi, all -- FreshBooks (http://www.freshbooks.com/) is a small (~20-employee) and fast-growing Toronto-based web invoicing startup that has been helping our clients take the pain out of invoicing since 2004. We're looking to hire an intermediate-level Linux sysadmin with Web app experience. The official posting is here: http://careers.freshbooks.com/#linuxsysadmin but to save you the trouble, here's the job description. If you're interested, please drop us a note at careers-ShEmRV+3uf9SwrhanM7KvQ at public.gmane.org (which will reach me -- please don't reply to my home address in the From:.) --------------------------- INTERMEDIATE LINUX SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR (SAGE LEVEL III) The success of FreshBooks is completely dependent on a fast and reliable infrastructure. If you're a well-rounded sysadmin with web application chops, we'd like you to help us continue to exceed our customers' expectations. You will: Join in the responsibility for maintaining our good reputation for availability, performance, and security. You will work with our lead system administrator and the rest of the team here to learn our current architecture and become a key contributor to designing and implementing our technical plan for growth. You'll also share responsibility for our internal IT needs, office network, development systems, users' desktops, and whatever else we might be doing at the time. We need you to have: * 3-5 years of Linux system administration experience (SAGE Level III), preferably with Red Hat or Ubuntu Linux * Experience building or maintaining a high-performance, highly-available Linux/Apache/MySQL environment * Thorough understanding of networking concepts and firewalls * Programming experience in sh, and in a dynamic language like PHP or Perl * Hands-on experience implementing secure servers and networks * Experience maintaining Windows or OS X desktops * Demonstrated proficiency communicating with users, developers, and upper management * Attention to detail, and a passion for professional system administration practice We hope you have: * A working knowledge of Web 2.0 * Familiarity with configuration management and source control systems * Experience with PCI DSS compliance * Excellent writing skills and a hankering to blog This is a full-time on-site position located in Toronto, Ontario and requires after-hours and holiday on-call support. -- Rich Lafferty rich-CncV1Atd1VQsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 16:19:31 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:19:31 -0400 Subject: how to modify /etc/fstab ? Message-ID: The story is longer, but I will try to keep it short. I bought a very nice computer for just $ 160. Of course with Windows installed there. And when sweatching between the old one and new one, the old one stopped working. Seems that a problem with video connection, though I am not sure :( Let me at least have the new one working. I took out hard drive (there were two) from the old one and put it in the new one. Good. At least it attempts to boot up. It brings me to read-only mode beacuse it can not mount another hard drive that is listed in /etc/fstab and does not exist on new computer (there is just one slot for HD connection on new computer) I can not modify /etc/fstab and disable booting another harddrive that was in older computer, because it is in read-only mode. I did the thing in the past. I guess I used CD for rebooting in single user mode. But I have no CD now, I have DVD only. The computer has CD only. Any parameters to be entered during reboot? But the screen goes so fast when booting. I do not really know how to enter any kernel parameters. This is Centos 5. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 16:29:44 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:29:44 -0400 Subject: Oracle-Spatial Message-ID: Let me ask please: Does anyone around has any experience with Oracle-Spatial? It is probably a something similar to postGIS? Anyone here is familiar with postGIS? I see that there is a strong need for specialists in GIS (geograophic information systems), throuout the globe. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 16:37:29 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:37:29 -0400 Subject: [OT] Removing stuck screw in hard drive case In-Reply-To: <4884B04D.2060904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4884B04D.2060904@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4884BB49.70302@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > So I was all set to put a larger hard drive into my PS3 and install > Linux, when I ran into a problem. > > The existing drive is screwed into a casing. And the screws are frozen > and made of metal that seems a touch soft. > > I searched the net and found that this is a common problem. > > I called SONY's support, endured the 20 minute wait, and was pleased > that they are sending a new case and screws to me. > > But I have to wait ... oh well. > > And I want to get the existing hard drive out of the case to use as a > backup drive for my laptop. > > So, any suggestions on how to free the drive from the case are welcome. > I want to save the drive, but the case and screws are expendable. One trick I've often used is "Freeze Mist", which is a spray used to chill electronic circuits, while trouble shooting. It will cause the screw to contract, often enough to free it. You can get it at places that sell electronic supplies, such as Electrosonic or Active Electronics. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 16:42:26 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:42:26 -0400 Subject: how to modify /etc/fstab ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4884BC72.6010201@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > The story is longer, but I will try to keep it short. > > I bought a very nice computer for just $ 160. Of course with Windows > installed there. And when sweatching between the old one and new one, > the old one stopped working. Seems that a problem with video > connection, though I am not sure :( > > Let me at least have the new one working. > > I took out hard drive (there were two) from the old one and put it in > the new one. > > Good. At least it attempts to boot up. It brings me to read-only mode > beacuse it can not mount another hard drive that is listed in > /etc/fstab and does not exist on new computer (there is just one slot > for HD connection on new computer) > > I can not modify /etc/fstab and disable booting another harddrive that > was in older computer, because it is in read-only mode. Are you trying to edit as root? If not you won't be allowed to. Also, if root, it's easy to change permissions to make it writable. > > I did the thing in the past. I guess I used CD for rebooting in single > user mode. But I have no CD now, I have DVD only. The computer has CD > only. > > Any parameters to be entered during reboot? > > But the screen goes so fast when booting. I do not really know how to > enter any kernel parameters. > > This is Centos 5. > > zb. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 16:50:37 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:50:37 -0400 Subject: how to modify /etc/fstab ? In-Reply-To: <4884BC72.6010201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4884BC72.6010201@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 7/21/08, James Knott wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > The story is longer, but I will try to keep it short. > > > > I bought a very nice computer for just $ 160. Of course with Windows > > installed there. And when sweatching between the old one and new one, > > the old one stopped working. Seems that a problem with video > > connection, though I am not sure :( > > > > Let me at least have the new one working. > > > > I took out hard drive (there were two) from the old one and put it in > > the new one. > > > > Good. At least it attempts to boot up. It brings me to read-only mode > > beacuse it can not mount another hard drive that is listed in > > /etc/fstab and does not exist on new computer (there is just one slot > > for HD connection on new computer) > > > > I can not modify /etc/fstab and disable booting another harddrive that > > was in older computer, because it is in read-only mode. > > > > Are you trying to edit as root? If not you won't be allowed to. Also, if > root, it's easy to change permissions to make it writable. As root. Common... I am in read only mode. How to go to single-user mode? > > > > > I did the thing in the past. I guess I used CD for rebooting in single > > user mode. But I have no CD now, I have DVD only. The computer has CD > > only. > > > > Any parameters to be entered during reboot? > > > > But the screen goes so fast when booting. I do not really know how to > > enter any kernel parameters. > > > > This is Centos 5. > > > > zb. > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 16:59:18 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:59:18 -0400 Subject: how to modify /etc/fstab ? In-Reply-To: References: <4884BC72.6010201@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4884C066.4060304@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On 7/21/08, James Knott wrote: >> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >>> The story is longer, but I will try to keep it short. >>> >>> I bought a very nice computer for just $ 160. Of course with Windows >>> installed there. And when sweatching between the old one and new one, >>> the old one stopped working. Seems that a problem with video >>> connection, though I am not sure :( >>> >>> Let me at least have the new one working. >>> >>> I took out hard drive (there were two) from the old one and put it in >>> the new one. >>> >>> Good. At least it attempts to boot up. It brings me to read-only mode >>> beacuse it can not mount another hard drive that is listed in >>> /etc/fstab and does not exist on new computer (there is just one slot >>> for HD connection on new computer) >>> >>> I can not modify /etc/fstab and disable booting another harddrive that >>> was in older computer, because it is in read-only mode. >>> >> Are you trying to edit as root? If not you won't be allowed to. Also, if >> root, it's easy to change permissions to make it writable. > > As root. > > Common... > > I am in read only mode. How to go to single-user mode? > > >>> I did the thing in the past. I guess I used CD for rebooting in single >>> user mode. But I have no CD now, I have DVD only. The computer has CD >>> only. >>> >>> Any parameters to be entered during reboot? >>> >>> But the screen goes so fast when booting. I do not really know how to >>> enter any kernel parameters. >>> >>> This is Centos 5. I don't know about Centos, but in SUSE, you can enter "1" in the boot parameters line. However, you can always move to run level 1 by openning a command shell and entering init 1. However, there should be no need to do that as root should be able to edit the file. I have done so many times. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 17:18:11 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:18:11 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: References: <48825049.5020301@rogers.com> <20080720194040.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <488428E4.8080004@telly.org> Message-ID: <4884C4D3.8080800@telly.org> Can anyone here offer a suggestion on which Internet RFPs, if any, are being broken by Rogers? Thanks! - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 17:29:01 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:29:01 -0400 Subject: OT: UTP Residential Cabling Cost Message-ID: <051501c8eb57$44730590$cd5910b0$@com> Hello All, How much should I pay per drop for someone to run cables in my home? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 17:48:17 2008 From: simone.richard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Simone Richard) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:48:17 -0400 Subject: Long interesting interview with Linus Message-ID: <1bb290807211048m183859a2s421190043c44a853@mail.gmail.com> http://www.simple-talk.com/opinion/geek-of-the-week/linus-torvalds,-geek-of-the-week/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 17:51:57 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:51:57 -0400 Subject: OT: UTP Residential Cabling Cost In-Reply-To: <051501c8eb57$44730590$cd5910b0$@com> References: <051501c8eb57$44730590$cd5910b0$@com> Message-ID: <4884CCBD.8020704@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Hello All, > How much should I pay per drop for someone to run cables in my home? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists How much should I pay for dinner? The answer to your question depends on who you hire, what exactly you want them to do, obstacles in your home etc. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 18:00:45 2008 From: gargamel.su-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jing) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:00:45 -0400 Subject: how to modify /etc/fstab ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Good. At least it attempts to boot up. It brings me to read-only mode > beacuse it can not mount another hard drive that is listed in > /etc/fstab and does not exist on new computer (there is just one slot > for HD connection on new computer) > > I can not modify /etc/fstab and disable booting another harddrive that > was in older computer, because it is in read-only mode. You've probably already tried this, but how about: mount -o remount,rw / as root user at a console after boot? At the very least it should let you start changing fstab. The only time I've seen this not work is when there are HD errors and somewhere along the way the hardware refuses to allow writes even after the directive above. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 18:30:21 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:30:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: OT: UTP Residential Cabling Cost In-Reply-To: <051501c8eb57$44730590$cd5910b0$@com> References: <051501c8eb57$44730590$cd5910b0$@com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Hello All, > How much should I pay per drop for someone to run cables in my home? Back in the old country (which has a similar economy and currency value) the figure $150/outlet was a general rule for cat5e but it would rise if there was any significant obsticles. I haven't had to drop cable in Canada yet. Do you have the name of a good cable guy/gal? If so could you email their contact details to me? TIA. Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 19:35:17 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:35:17 -0400 Subject: OT: UTP Residential Cabling Cost In-Reply-To: References: <051501c8eb57$44730590$cd5910b0$@com> Message-ID: <1216668917.7036.142.camel@leon> On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 18:30 +0000, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > > Hello All, > > How much should I pay per drop for someone to run cables in my home? > > Back in the old country (which has a similar economy and currency value) > the figure $150/outlet was a general rule for cat5e but it would rise if > there was any significant obsticles. I haven't had to drop cable in > Canada yet. Indeed. I was in this business many moons ago. Results and skills vary as widely as the details of the job. Wiring while the house is under construction is hugely preferable. If the house is already complete, these are some of the things that the estimators would consider when pricing a job. Construction materials and age of the house: drywall and wooden studs, or plaster and lathe? Is the basement ceiling finished? Is access to the attic practical? Which rooms? Which walls in those rooms? Is the wall painted or papered? Is the floor carpeted? Can any pre-existing cabling be used to help? Where is the destination for each cable run? How long is each run? And finally multiplier of 50% to 200% based on the expectations of the client for how unnoticeable the finished results should be. This isn't a bad place to start if you want to try it yourself. http://www.ehow.com/how_6851_run-wires-through.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 19:41:33 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:41:33 -0400 Subject: OT: UTP Residential Cabling Cost In-Reply-To: <1216668917.7036.142.camel@leon> References: <051501c8eb57$44730590$cd5910b0$@com> <1216668917.7036.142.camel@leon> Message-ID: <055f01c8eb69$c85e0f00$591a2d00$@com> Is it safe to pass wire through the cold air return? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Richard > Weait > Sent: July 21, 2008 3:35 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: UTP Residential Cabling Cost > > On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 18:30 +0000, Robert Brockway wrote: > > On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > > > > Hello All, > > > How much should I pay per drop for someone to run cables in my > home? > > > > Back in the old country (which has a similar economy and currency > value) > > the figure $150/outlet was a general rule for cat5e but it would rise > if > > there was any significant obsticles. I haven't had to drop cable in > > Canada yet. > > Indeed. > > I was in this business many moons ago. Results and skills vary as > widely as the details of the job. Wiring while the house is under > construction is hugely preferable. If the house is already complete, > these are some of the things that the estimators would consider when > pricing a job. > > Construction materials and age of the house: drywall and wooden studs, > or plaster and lathe? > Is the basement ceiling finished? > Is access to the attic practical? > Which rooms? > Which walls in those rooms? > Is the wall painted or papered? > Is the floor carpeted? > Can any pre-existing cabling be used to help? > Where is the destination for each cable run? > How long is each run? > > And finally multiplier of 50% to 200% based on the expectations of the > client for how unnoticeable the finished results should be. > > This isn't a bad place to start if you want to try it yourself. > http://www.ehow.com/how_6851_run-wires-through.html > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 19:48:39 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:48:39 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <4883C6FE.9090905-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> <20080716140111.GI31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <99a6c38f0807180740m28a734cap29cfe9931929cbff@mail.gmail.com> <20080720192829.GO31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4883C6FE.9090905@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20080721194839.GS31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 07:15:10PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: > I gather from this that ML isn't Machine Language, but some programming > language that shares the same contraction... ML is a language (not machine language). I think the most commonly used variant today is OCAML which is based on CAML but with some object oriented extensions (which you can easily ignore). See http://caml.inria.fr/ CAML dates back to 1985. ML is much much older. I don't know when OCAML was introduced, but it is certainly in active development and use. Info on ML here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ML_programming_language It is from the 70s and originalt meant "Meta Language" and was meant to be able to implement theorem provers. Standard ML and (O)CAML are the most popular variants although Microsoft's F# is obviously heavily influenced by ML as they certainly admit in their info about it. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 19:52:32 2008 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:52:32 -0400 Subject: OT: UTP Residential Cabling Cost In-Reply-To: <055f01c8eb69$c85e0f00$591a2d00$@com> References: <051501c8eb57$44730590$cd5910b0$@com> <1216668917.7036.142.camel@leon> <055f01c8eb69$c85e0f00$591a2d00$@com> Message-ID: <4884E900.3070206@totaltravelmarketing.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Is it safe to pass wire through the cold air return? > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Richard >> Weait >> Sent: July 21, 2008 3:35 PM >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: UTP Residential Cabling Cost >> >> On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 18:30 +0000, Robert Brockway wrote: >>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> How much should I pay per drop for someone to run cables in my >> home? >>> Back in the old country (which has a similar economy and currency >> value) >>> the figure $150/outlet was a general rule for cat5e but it would rise >> if >>> there was any significant obsticles. I haven't had to drop cable in >>> Canada yet. >> Indeed. >> >> I was in this business many moons ago. Results and skills vary as >> widely as the details of the job. Wiring while the house is under >> construction is hugely preferable. If the house is already complete, >> these are some of the things that the estimators would consider when >> pricing a job. >> >> Construction materials and age of the house: drywall and wooden studs, >> or plaster and lathe? >> Is the basement ceiling finished? >> Is access to the attic practical? >> Which rooms? >> Which walls in those rooms? >> Is the wall painted or papered? >> Is the floor carpeted? >> Can any pre-existing cabling be used to help? >> Where is the destination for each cable run? >> How long is each run? >> >> And finally multiplier of 50% to 200% based on the expectations of the >> client for how unnoticeable the finished results should be. >> >> This isn't a bad place to start if you want to try it yourself. >> http://www.ehow.com/how_6851_run-wires-through.html >> >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > I would say that may violate fire by-laws, but not sure, I simply run the cables along the lower part of the wall and tuck them in carefully to make it look decent. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 19:55:46 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:55:46 -0400 Subject: OT: UTP Residential Cabling Cost In-Reply-To: <1216668917.7036.142.camel@leon> References: <051501c8eb57$44730590$cd5910b0$@com> <1216668917.7036.142.camel@leon> Message-ID: <4884E9C2.4070709@rogers.com> Richard Weait wrote: > On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 18:30 +0000, Robert Brockway wrote: >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >> >>> Hello All, >>> How much should I pay per drop for someone to run cables in my home? >> Back in the old country (which has a similar economy and currency value) >> the figure $150/outlet was a general rule for cat5e but it would rise if >> there was any significant obsticles. I haven't had to drop cable in >> Canada yet. > > Indeed. > > I was in this business many moons ago. Results and skills vary as > widely as the details of the job. Wiring while the house is under > construction is hugely preferable. If the house is already complete, > these are some of the things that the estimators would consider when > pricing a job. Several years ago, I got cable modem service from Rogers. My computer room was at the far end of my condo, from where the cable TV outlet was. Rogers sent a two man team to run the cable for me. They also pulled in a couple of pieces of CAT5. They did a very neat job, up through the wall separating the living room from the master bedroom, along side some air ducts, over the bedroom closet & bathroom. The cables appeared alongside the ductwork at the laundry room ceiling and down the wall, to where they pass through to the closet in my computer room. They only had to make two small holes in the drywall in the bedroom, which they then patched. All in all, a very nice job, which took them 3 hours to do and was paid for by Rogers. BTW, the two pieces of CAT5 run from a pair of jacks in my computer room closet to individual wall jacks in my living room and bedroom. I installed all the jacks myself. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 19:56:48 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:56:48 -0400 Subject: OT: UTP Residential Cabling Cost In-Reply-To: <055f01c8eb69$c85e0f00$591a2d00$@com> References: <051501c8eb57$44730590$cd5910b0$@com> <1216668917.7036.142.camel@leon> <055f01c8eb69$c85e0f00$591a2d00$@com> Message-ID: <4884EA00.2020505@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Is it safe to pass wire through the cold air return? Only if plenum rated cable. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 21 20:47:42 2008 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:47:42 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <87tzel8rsp.fsf-MOdoAOVCFFcswetKESUqMA@public.gmane.org> References: <4882284B.30105@alteeve.com> <87tzel8rsp.fsf@azurservers.com> Message-ID: <4884F5EE.3040302@pobox.com> Slack Rat wrote: > Open DNS seems to be a reasonable solution > > http://www.opendns.com/ > > The problem is that if you open an account, the email verification > comes from a Performance Systems International INC IP and many folks > have 38.0.0.0/8 blocked as spammers. > Do you need to open an account? When I used them I think I just pointed my local DNS cache at their name servers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 02:01:38 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:01:38 -0400 Subject: Cool diagram of Linux + Apps Message-ID: Compact and fairly dense, but readable... http://www.makelinux.net/home/ -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 03:44:28 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:44:28 -0400 Subject: how to modify /etc/fstab ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/21/08, jing wrote: > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Good. At least it attempts to boot up. It brings me to read-only mode > > beacuse it can not mount another hard drive that is listed in > > /etc/fstab and does not exist on new computer (there is just one slot > > for HD connection on new computer) > > > > I can not modify /etc/fstab and disable booting another harddrive that > > was in older computer, because it is in read-only mode. > > You've probably already tried this, but how about: > mount -o remount,rw / No. I mean yes, I did try after your advise. Thanks a lot. Thanks really a lot for that simple advise. Now I have another problem. I took HD from the older machine (Linux) and put it in newer one. I can boot. I did even yum upgrade (this is now become 5.2 CentOS). But I can not start X. Video card is on motherboard. I have no idea what kind of video cheep it is. Looking to log files did not give me a clue. How can I at least have VGA mode? I dont want to use Windows ;) And I have a lot of valuable data on my Linux HD... ;( zb. > > as root user at a console after boot? At the very least it should let > you start changing fstab. The only time I've seen this not work is > when there are HD errors and somewhere along the way the hardware > refuses to allow writes even after the directive above. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 04:20:25 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:20:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: how to modify /etc/fstab ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Zbigniew Koziol | now become 5.2 CentOS). But I can not start X. Video card is on | motherboard. I have no idea what kind of video cheep it is. Looking to | log files did not give me a clue. | | How can I at least have VGA mode? I dont want to use Windows ;) And I | have a lot of valuable data on my Linux HD... ;( You've not given us enough information to work with. One suggestion (certainly not the only likely approach): Go get a live CD like Ubuntu 8.04.1 and see if it starts X properly. That way you eliminate any problems generated by leftovers from previous installations. I get that it works. Either way you narrow the problem down. I guess CentoOS 5.2 comes as a live CD or DVD. Do you have it? It might work as well as Ubuntu (I don't know because I have never used it). Without even turning your machine on, you should be able to find out what chipset family your integrated video belongs to. It would be in the specifications of the motherboard (if you bought the motherboard as a separate unit) or computer (if it was a box from a major retailer). The lspci command should give you enough informatino to hunt down the chipset. The xorg log should tell you too, but there is a lot of stuff to ignore. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jvetterli-Rn4VEauK+AKRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 05:07:26 2008 From: jvetterli-Rn4VEauK+AKRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:07:26 -0400 Subject: how to modify /etc/fstab ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:44:28PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > ... > Now I have another problem. I took HD from the older machine (Linux) > and put it in newer one. I can boot. I did even yum upgrade (this is > now become 5.2 CentOS). But I can not start X. Video card is on > motherboard. I have no idea what kind of video cheep it is. Looking to > log files did not give me a clue. > How can I at least have VGA mode? I dont want to use Windows ;) And I > have a lot of valuable data on my Linux HD... ;( Have you tried running "Xorg -configure"? Looking through the config file that "-configure" generates is much easier than looking through the log files. HTH JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 05:19:01 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:19:01 -0400 Subject: OT: Free Computer Stuff (and some non-computer stuff) Message-ID: <48856DC5.9040707@dinamis.com> Hi, I've posted to Craiglist so I'll just reference the URLs and titles. 2 x 21" and 1 x 17" Monitors - Not Working SparcStation5 clones PowerMac 6100AV - 66MHz Two Cybex KVM switches & Intel Express 100Base-T4 Stackable hub Seven Three Ring Binders for 8.5" x 11" Paper -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 06:17:34 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:17:34 -0400 Subject: Cool diagram of Linux + Apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48857B7E.1040408@telly.org> Christopher Browne wrote: > Compact and fairly dense, but readable... > http://www.makelinux.net/home And also pretty useless, unless you didn't realize that Emacs has a logo. There are a lot of open source apps out there. I don't think people need a chart to tell them that. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 12:20:21 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:20:21 -0400 Subject: Teaching Children Programming and Linux In-Reply-To: <487DE5A0.5060202-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <487DE5A0.5060202@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 7/16/08, Kamran wrote: > I would be interested to hear experiences and recommendations that any > of you have teaching young children how to program and how to use Linux. > My niece asked me the other day "Are you going to teach me all about > computers?" You should have a look at a new story on the Slashdot, where one of the commentators asks for reader suggestions as to how to teach his teenage son programming. Not a perfect match for your situation, but close... The URL: ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/22/0452225 Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 12:34:49 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:34:49 -0400 Subject: how to modify /etc/fstab ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7/22/08, John Vetterli wrote: > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:44:28PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > ... > > Now I have another problem. I took HD from the older machine (Linux) > > and put it in newer one. I can boot. I did even yum upgrade (this is > > now become 5.2 CentOS). But I can not start X. Video card is on > > motherboard. I have no idea what kind of video cheep it is. Looking to > > log files did not give me a clue. > > How can I at least have VGA mode? I dont want to use Windows ;) And I > > have a lot of valuable data on my Linux HD... ;( > > Have you tried running "Xorg -configure"? Looking through the > config file that "-configure" generates is much easier than looking > through the log files. I did run Xorg -configure. It generates a file which however does not start X. The file content is somewhat strange. Since I am now on windows I can not cite. My understanding was, when reading the file that it had zeros instead of screan resolutions, or something like that. I guess the video is not recognized. But, what a sh*t, I should be able to have at least VGA mode, dont you think? And I do not know how to make it... > > HTH > JV > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 13:49:36 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:49:36 -0400 Subject: how about adding a video card? Message-ID: Perhaps a solution would be in adding a video card? But how do I force the system to recognise and use another video card? zb. On 7/22/08, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On 7/22/08, John Vetterli wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:44:28PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > ... > > > Now I have another problem. I took HD from the older machine (Linux) > > > and put it in newer one. I can boot. I did even yum upgrade (this is > > > now become 5.2 CentOS). But I can not start X. Video card is on > > > motherboard. I have no idea what kind of video cheep it is. Looking to > > > log files did not give me a clue. > > > How can I at least have VGA mode? I dont want to use Windows ;) And I > > > have a lot of valuable data on my Linux HD... ;( > > > > Have you tried running "Xorg -configure"? Looking through the > > config file that "-configure" generates is much easier than looking > > through the log files. > > I did run Xorg -configure. It generates a file which however does not > start X. The file content is somewhat strange. Since I am now on > windows I can not cite. My understanding was, when reading the file > that it had zeros instead of screan resolutions, or something like > that. I guess the video is not recognized. But, what a sh*t, I should > be able to have at least VGA mode, dont you think? And I do not know > how to make it... > > > > > HTH > > JV > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 14:02:41 2008 From: evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:02:41 -0400 Subject: OT: UTP Residential Cabling Cost In-Reply-To: <4884CCBD.8020704-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <051501c8eb57$44730590$cd5910b0$@com> <4884CCBD.8020704@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4885E881.2060903@telly.org> James Knott wrote: > The answer to your question depends on who you hire, what exactly you > want them to do, obstacles in your home etc. In my case, I have a partially done setup by my builder. I need to label which of the coax cable ends in my basement go to which rooms. Also about six of the ends downstairs don't have connectors on them. I've crimped ends on RJ45s before but never a coax. The whole job would be less than half-an hour. I could probably do it myself, but getting someone who knows what they're doing is probably cheaper than buying the equipment. A weekend loan of the equipment, a lesson on how to crimp a coax end, and knowing where to get the decent quality crimp ends (like the kind Rogers uses for cords going to its digital TV boxes and modems) would be sufficient for me. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 14:12:08 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: how to modify /etc/fstab ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: | From: Zbigniew Koziol | I did run Xorg -configure. It generates a file which however does not | start X. You could also try system-config-display -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 14:47:37 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:47:37 -0400 Subject: how about adding a video card? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear boys and girls. I did that! system-config-display did not work. But I pulled out video card from older computer, I put it in the new one (as a second one), connected monitor there, and things are just automagically working... :) Thanks for all helpful suggestions. !!! Well, now I am quite happy: 2.8 GHz and 1.5G RAM for just $ 160 ;) And I am on Linux, again.. ;) zb. On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Perhaps a solution would be in adding a video card? > > But how do I force the system to recognise and use another video card? > > zb. > > On 7/22/08, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> On 7/22/08, John Vetterli wrote: >> > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:44:28PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: >> > > ... >> > > Now I have another problem. I took HD from the older machine (Linux) >> > > and put it in newer one. I can boot. I did even yum upgrade (this is >> > > now become 5.2 CentOS). But I can not start X. Video card is on >> > > motherboard. I have no idea what kind of video cheep it is. Looking to >> > > log files did not give me a clue. >> > > How can I at least have VGA mode? I dont want to use Windows ;) And I >> > > have a lot of valuable data on my Linux HD... ;( >> > >> > Have you tried running "Xorg -configure"? Looking through the >> > config file that "-configure" generates is much easier than looking >> > through the log files. >> >> I did run Xorg -configure. It generates a file which however does not >> start X. The file content is somewhat strange. Since I am now on >> windows I can not cite. My understanding was, when reading the file >> that it had zeros instead of screan resolutions, or something like >> that. I guess the video is not recognized. But, what a sh*t, I should >> be able to have at least VGA mode, dont you think? And I do not know >> how to make it... >> >> > >> > HTH >> > JV >> > -- >> > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 14:55:19 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:55:19 -0400 Subject: how about adding a video card? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4885F4D7.3080008@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Perhaps a solution would be in adding a video card? > > But how do I force the system to recognise and use another video card? > > zb. > > On some boards you can enter the bios and turn the onboard video off. On others simply inserting a video card into the AGP / PCIe slot is enough to force the change. Third, in a small percentage of cheap boards from the likes of PC Chips, ASRocks et al that I've encountered there exists only the ability to change the priority between the on-board and ad-in cards but not to isolate either one (seems to be a not very good attempt at SLI). HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 17:20:16 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:20:16 -0400 Subject: Cool diagram of Linux + Apps In-Reply-To: <48857B7E.1040408-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48857B7E.1040408@telly.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807221020o2948b41ej9138a179ea3dd7e6@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:17 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > Christopher Browne wrote: >> Compact and fairly dense, but readable... >> http://www.makelinux.net/home > And also pretty useless, unless you didn't realize that Emacs has a logo. > > There are a lot of open source apps out there. I don't think people need > a chart to tell them that. I found the Kerenel map (linked to at the bottom) very helpful. Instead of linking to wikipedia, entries in this map go to the kernel sources. Very cool. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 17:29:26 2008 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:29:26 -0400 Subject: Partitioning for Dual Boot With Vista Message-ID: <488618F6.4080304@sympatico.ca> Hi all; I just bought a new PC which came with Vista and I want to partition it to have mostly Linux space. We had this topic here recently and I recall that if the partitioning was done with the Vista partitioner, there should be no trouble rebooting Vista. I also recall that Vista may put files far into the drive, restricting how much space could be freed. I have a 500GB drive. I partitioned with the Vista tool and the NTFS partition would not go below about 235GB. Truthfully, that leaves me lots of space for Linux, more than I ever had. Maybe I'm being a bit of a prick, but there's no damn way I want Vista to have half of my drive. Is there a way to reduce the NTFS partition further without destroying Vista? If not, since this PC came with a recovery partition rather than a DVD, would I be safe in blowing away Vista, reducing it to something like 50GB (maybe 100GB if I'm feeling generous), and recovering Vista again? That is, should the recovery program use what's available rather than try (and fail) to spread out Vista as before? As a related question, if I were to leave things alone, is writing to an NTFS partition still risky? Thanks, John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 18:35:31 2008 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is there an indirect index in Gnumeric? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <810674.76682.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Some years back (in the era of Lotus-123) I had ?similar problem which I solved with a macro. Basically, what I did was move the cursor from a fixed cell position in some direction a distance specified in the control cell, define a range of highlighted cells. Use the range name in the required formula.I am not sure if gnumeric can do that. EK --- On Mon, 7/21/08, Christopher Browne wrote: From: Christopher Browne Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Is there an indirect index in Gnumeric? To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Received: Monday, July 21, 2008, 11:05 AM On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Situation... > - spreadsheet cell A1 has value 25 > - cell A2 has value 35 > > Is there a way to read those cells and use their values as indexes? > E.g. suppose I want to take =average(C25:C35), without literally writing > the values, by obtaining the range from the values in cells A1 and A2. There is a LOOKUP function that allows you to search for values within a range. Unfortunately, that doesn't get you an average across a specified range :-(. Spreadsheets don't give this much of a degree of indirection :-(. It wouldn't be difficult to have a function to express this; you'd essentially define an AVERAGE function that has 4 parameters indicating the 4 corners of the rectangle. But it's not something that is supported in any spreadsheet I know of. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 19:14:24 2008 From: ekg_ab-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:14:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Postfix (mail server) question In-Reply-To: <48769FE8.9000506-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48769FE8.9000506@telly.org> Message-ID: <908357.72191.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi there, You can use aliases to do that. EK --- On Thu, 7/10/08, Evan Leibovitch wrote: From: Evan Leibovitch Subject: [TLUG]: Postfix (mail server) question To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Received: Thursday, July 10, 2008, 7:48 PM Hi there, I'm trying to do a certain kind of Postfix config; I'm certain the system can do it but so far my time perusing the fine manuals hasn't suggested the right config. What I'd like to have is a list of users for whom mail is punted to a different SMTP host on the local network. For all other users, mail is delivered locally (via a Courier IMAP server). Of course there are many other parts of the config (mainly implementing postgrey, amavis, maia, spamassassin and clamav) but I think I have those parts down. Any help is appreciated. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 19:15:57 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:15:57 -0400 Subject: Cool diagram of Linux + Apps In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0807221020o2948b41ej9138a179ea3dd7e6-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <48857B7E.1040408@telly.org> <99a6c38f0807221020o2948b41ej9138a179ea3dd7e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807221215lb43e658nf0f2a45b9e04c99d@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:17 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: >> Christopher Browne wrote: >>> Compact and fairly dense, but readable... >>> http://www.makelinux.net/home >> And also pretty useless, unless you didn't realize that Emacs has a logo. >> >> There are a lot of open source apps out there. I don't think people need >> a chart to tell them that. > > I found the Kerenel map (linked to at the bottom) very helpful. > Instead of linking to wikipedia, entries in this map go to the kernel > sources. Very cool. Gleh. This hasn't been my week. :( Besides not being able to spell 'Kernel' I forgot to point out that the links to the kernel's sources are AFAICT only available from the HTML version when zoomed in. The 'plain HTML' link is in the sidebar of the interactive Kernel map; when the HTML version opens, click it to zoom. Structure names then become links into the source code. Incidentally, anyone have any pointers for some "easy reading" docs about the kernel? I read Tanenbaum's "Operating Systems: Design and Implementation" 2nd Edition and found I could grok the Minix kernel. Something similar for Linux would be great. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 22:46:14 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:46:14 -0400 Subject: how to modify /etc/fstab ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a97ef0807221546t54d9d642xae3bb73bd25efd6b@mail.gmail.com> What's in /var/log/Xorg.0.log X could be crashing due to bad video settings, but it could also be a mouse driver or some other thing. Could you paste in that and the result of lspci, maybe we can debug the x.org settings > Now I have another problem. I took HD from the older machine (Linux) > and put it in newer one. I can boot. I did even yum upgrade (this is > now become 5.2 CentOS). But I can not start X. Video card is on > motherboard. I have no idea what kind of video cheep it is. Looking to > log files did not give me a clue. > How can I at least have VGA mode? I dont want to use Windows ;) And I > have a lot of valuable data on my Linux HD... ;( -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 22 23:00:21 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:00:21 -0400 Subject: As if we didnt have enough DNS issues already...... Message-ID: <07b901c8ec4e$b88fdfa0$29af9ee0$@com> https://www.kb.cert.org/CERT_WEB%5Cservices%5Cvul-notes.nsf/id/800113 http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2222249/dns-flaw-revealed Patch 'em if you got 'em. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 23 00:04:10 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:04:10 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <4884C4D3.8080800-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48825049.5020301@rogers.com> <20080720194040.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <488428E4.8080004@telly.org> <4884C4D3.8080800@telly.org> Message-ID: <1f13df280807221704q3bbb8881q2ca065f16ca61af2@mail.gmail.com> 2008/7/21 Evan Leibovitch : > Can anyone here offer a suggestion on which Internet RFPs, if any, are > being broken by Rogers? http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/04/isps-error-page.html This is about Earthlink doing the same thing a couple years ago, and is worth reading. They're not breaking RFPs: "There's no contractual obligation for ISPs not to change content and inject ads," Kaminsky notes. Still talking about Earthlink (not Rogers, but I'd say the same applies): DNS expert Paul Vixie, who is the president of the nonprofit Internet Systems Consortium, says the problem Kaminisky found isn't with the core internet protocols, which he could fix, but instead is a "problem exacerbated by inappropriate monetization of certain DNS features." The article is worth reading. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 23 00:20:16 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:20:16 -0400 Subject: Partitioning for Dual Boot With Vista In-Reply-To: <488618F6.4080304-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <488618F6.4080304@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1f13df280807221720k751a0c3ep666cad87703b3014@mail.gmail.com> 2008/7/22 John Moniz : > I just bought a new PC which came with Vista and I want to partition it to > have mostly Linux space. We had this topic here recently and I recall that > if the partitioning was done with the Vista partitioner, there should be no > trouble rebooting Vista. I also recall that Vista may put files far into the > drive, restricting how much space could be freed. > > I have a 500GB drive. I partitioned with the Vista tool and the NTFS > partition would not go below about 235GB. Truthfully, that leaves me lots of > space for Linux, more than I ever had. Maybe I'm being a bit of a prick, but > there's no damn way I want Vista to have half of my drive. > > Is there a way to reduce the NTFS partition further without destroying > Vista? If not, since this PC came with a recovery partition rather than a > DVD, would I be safe in blowing away Vista, reducing it to something like > 50GB (maybe 100GB if I'm feeling generous), and recovering Vista again? That > is, should the recovery program use what's available rather than try (and > fail) to spread out Vista as before? I think you're referring to my adventures ... I got a new computer with Vista and a 320Gb HD. Vista wouldn't admit to being able to reduce its own space to less that 160GB or so. I did that, and everything was fine. But then, like you, I got pissed, and I pulled out a bootable GPartEd disk (I think this is the one I used, although probably an older version: http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php). GPartEd claimed it could reduce Vista to about 60Gb safely, and I eventually went for 80Gb. Vista got a bit of a panicked look in its nasty little eyes when I booted it the next time and it bitched that someone had tampered with it and it would have to fix stuff ... After about five minutes of plonking about, it was fine. I think Linux re-partitioning software is pretty damn cautious about NOT lopping off files, so defrag and give it a try. It's certainly worth a shot if you're willing to re-install! Just try it first. Good luck. Of course I think rebooting to make sure Vista was okay three months ago was the last time I booted Vista. :-) -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 23 00:48:38 2008 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:48:38 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <4884C4D3.8080800-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org> References: <48825049.5020301@rogers.com> <20080720194040.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <488428E4.8080004@telly.org> <4884C4D3.8080800@telly.org> Message-ID: <07e001c8ec5d$d91e1480$8b5a3d80$@com> Well, we can just take lessons learnt from the previous time this happened. Remember in 2003 when VeriSign tried the same thing? Verisign claimed that their sitefinder service did not break any RFCs. But it does break RFC 1034 If recursive service is requested and available, the recursive response to a query will be one of the following: - The answer to the query, possibly preface by one or more CNAME RRs that specify aliases encountered on the way to an answer. - A name error indicating that the name does not exist. This may include CNAME RRs that indicate that the original query name was an alias for a name which does not exist. - A temporary error indication. If recursive service is not requested or is not available, the non- recursive response will be one of the following: - An authoritative name error indicating that the name does not exist. - A temporary error indication. - Some combination of: RRs that answer the question, together with an indication whether the data comes from a zone or is cached. A referral to name servers which have zones which are closer ancestors to the name than the server sending the reply. - RRs that the name server thinks will prove useful to the requester. AFAIK, Verisign only pulled back because ICANN threatened legal action. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Evan > Leibovitch > Sent: July 21, 2008 1:18 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Rogers Breaks DNS > > Can anyone here offer a suggestion on which Internet RFPs, if any, are > being broken by Rogers? > > Thanks! > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 23 04:12:03 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:12:03 -0400 Subject: Rogers Breaks DNS In-Reply-To: <07e001c8ec5d$d91e1480$8b5a3d80$@com> References: <48825049.5020301@rogers.com> <20080720194040.GR31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <488428E4.8080004@telly.org> <4884C4D3.8080800@telly.org> <07e001c8ec5d$d91e1480$8b5a3d80$@com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 8:48 PM, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > Well, we can just take lessons learnt from the previous time this happened. Remember in 2003 when VeriSign tried the same thing? Verisign claimed that their sitefinder service did not break any RFCs. > But it does break RFC 1034 > > > - RRs that the name server thinks will prove useful to the > requester. > Isn't this one the "out" that they can claim? Rogers is presumably reporting back records that they "think will prove useful to the requestor." > AFAIK, Verisign only pulled back because ICANN threatened legal action. As I work for a competitor, I won't touch that one with a 3.3m implement ;-). I do recall our CTO having some comment at that ICANN meeting, though :-). -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 23 12:38:00 2008 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:38:00 -0400 Subject: Partitioning for Dual Boot With Vista In-Reply-To: <1f13df280807221720k751a0c3ep666cad87703b3014-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <488618F6.4080304@sympatico.ca> <1f13df280807221720k751a0c3ep666cad87703b3014@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48872628.1050502@sympatico.ca> Giles Orr wrote: > 2008/7/22 John Moniz : > >> I just bought a new PC which came with Vista and I want to partition it to >> have mostly Linux space. We had this topic here recently and I recall that >> if the partitioning was done with the Vista partitioner, there should be no >> trouble rebooting Vista. I also recall that Vista may put files far into the >> drive, restricting how much space could be freed. >> >> I have a 500GB drive. I partitioned with the Vista tool and the NTFS >> partition would not go below about 235GB. Truthfully, that leaves me lots of >> space for Linux, more than I ever had. Maybe I'm being a bit of a prick, but >> there's no damn way I want Vista to have half of my drive. >> >> Is there a way to reduce the NTFS partition further without destroying >> Vista? If not, since this PC came with a recovery partition rather than a >> DVD, would I be safe in blowing away Vista, reducing it to something like >> 50GB (maybe 100GB if I'm feeling generous), and recovering Vista again? That >> is, should the recovery program use what's available rather than try (and >> fail) to spread out Vista as before? >> > > I think you're referring to my adventures ... I got a new computer > with Vista and a 320Gb HD. Vista wouldn't admit to being able to > reduce its own space to less that 160GB or so. I did that, and > everything was fine. But then, like you, I got pissed, and I pulled > out a bootable GPartEd disk (I think this is the one I used, although > probably an older version: http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php). > GPartEd claimed it could reduce Vista to about 60Gb safely, and I > eventually went for 80Gb. Vista got a bit of a panicked look in its > nasty little eyes when I booted it the next time and it bitched that > someone had tampered with it and it would have to fix stuff ... After > about five minutes of plonking about, it was fine. I think Linux > re-partitioning software is pretty damn cautious about NOT lopping off > files, so defrag and give it a try. It's certainly worth a shot if > you're willing to re-install! Just try it first. Good luck. > > Of course I think rebooting to make sure Vista was okay three months > ago was the last time I booted Vista. :-) Thanks Giles. I was under the impression that you had to re-install after you partitioned with gparted. I will try the same thing you did. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 24 04:52:08 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:52:08 -0400 Subject: How to make eth0 and ppp0 co-exist In-Reply-To: <4884995E.4040507-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20080720225942.GA13413@waltdnes.org> <20080721062153.GA16760@waltdnes.org> <4884995E.4040507@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20080724045208.GA5133@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 10:12:46AM -0400, James Knott wrote > Just create a script that changes the default route to the dial up ISP and > back to the original, when disconnecting. The KDE dialer supports that. The reason I prefer my solution is that I don't have to drop the connection, via the router, to my other machine if I nave an ssh session (or whatever) open to the other machine. It may look a little more complex, but it's a lot more convenient not having to disconnect from my other machine whilst downloading 35 meg linux kernel or Firefox tarballs. I did originally started off with your solution... waltdnes at d530 ~ $ cat ~/bin/dialup #!/bin/bash /usr/bin/sudo /sbin/ifconfig eth0 down /usr/bin/sudo /bin/cp -f /etc/ssmtp/295.ssmtp.conf /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf /usr/bin/sudo /usr/sbin/pon 295.ca waltdnes at d530 ~ $ cat ~/bin/dialdown #!/bin/bash /usr/bin/sudo /usr/sbin/poff /usr/bin/sudo /bin/cp -f /etc/ssmtp/teksavvy.ssmtp.conf /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf /usr/bin/sudo /etc/init.d/net.eth0 restart With my new solution, it's... waltdnes at d530 ~ $ cat ~/bin/dialup #!/bin/bash /usr/bin/sudo /bin/cp -f /etc/ssmtp/295.ssmtp.conf /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf /usr/bin/sudo /usr/sbin/pon 295.ca waltdnes at d530 ~ $ cat ~/bin/dialdown #!/bin/bash /usr/bin/sudo /usr/sbin/poff /usr/bin/sudo /bin/cp -f /etc/ssmtp/teksavvy.ssmtp.conf /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 25 01:47:57 2008 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:47:57 -0400 Subject: how to modify /etc/fstab ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080725014757.GA5380@waltdnes.org> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 08:34:49AM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote > I did run Xorg -configure. It generates a file which however does not > start X. What output do you get from the following command, as root? lspci -v | grep -i -A 10 "\(Display\|VGA\)" -- Walter Dnes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 25 20:35:39 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:35:39 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? Message-ID: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> Anyone looking for a sysadmin-type position that has good understanding of webserver as well as some understanding of lan-servers. Knowledge of FreeBSD is definately an asset (most of our servers have been moved to BSD over 'nix). Sorry for the crappy formatting, I'm pasting this from a word doc... --------- Technical Skills 5+ years as Unix System Administration - involving complex customization 5+ years experience using Apache Experience using Nagios, Cacti Experience with SQL-Server and MySQL databases 5+ years of Shell, Perl scripting experiences Experienced in implementing large, high-availability systems Experienced in database clustering would be a plus Networking experience (including SNMP monitoring, load balancers) Experience with Global Caching Solutions would be beneficial ITIL experience is an asset Key Responsibilities Include: Initiates, reviews, monitors and advises on effectiveness of existing computer and related systems equipment and performance of platform and database technologies within the IT Department. Responsible for maintenance of websites, databases, email and associated systems Manage storage of large volumes of data, images, email ? including creating and maintaining archiving strategies Provide production support for medium and high-volume web applications Monitor and maintain proper backup procedures including tape rotation Initiate or review security policies to insure secure office and production environments Conduct preventative maintenance on production web, DB and email servers, development and staging servers, load balancers and firewalls Administer email, DNS, scheduled jobs and partner data transfer processes. Provide technical support through deployment of patches or updates to applications or data Respond to emerging situations on our sites/forums and applications to preserve functionality and performance Be "on-call" during non-business hours in case of emergencies Provide CTO with advice on all matters required to support efficient operations Requirements: Candidates should posses at a diploma in Computer Science or equivalent job experience. A very good understanding of email systems and protocols is essential as is a strong systems and tools development background. The ability to work in a fast paced environment while adhering to deadlines and committing to high quality performance is necessary in the Systems Administrator role. Additionally incumbents must have or be able to: Ability to exercise independent judgment. Ability to conceptualize, visualize, prototype and design applications. Use the most appropriate tools to develop the required application, upgrade, modification and/or enhancement. Analyze user requests or specifications provided to determine the precise requirements. Interview key users to ensure an accurate understanding of the requirements that includes application upgrade, modification and/or enhancement, as necessary. Assist users in acceptance testing of newly developed application, modifications or upgrades. Prepare complete documentation on the application, upgrade, modification or enhancements produced. Coordinate and work with programmers on projects. Estimate the effort and time required for development, tests, and implementation of projects. Liaise with all team members and other teams to obtain regular reports on the projects status. Troubleshoot when problems arise within applications. INTERPERSONAL AND COMMUNICATION SKILLS : Incumbent must be able to communicate clearly and concisely, both verbally and in writing any information related to systems planning and execution. The role demands effective collaboration and the ability to take initiative to meet operational demands. The Incumbent will be expected to support the corporate priorities and direction, producing sound analyses and practical recommendations where necessary. Excellent Project Management skills. Ability to clearly explain objectives, requirements and directions to others. Good interpersonal skills to ascertain appropriate measures when problems arise Good organizational and time management skills. Ability to quickly learn new technologies and disseminate information to other personnel, including non-technical people. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 25 23:43:14 2008 From: softquake-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:43:14 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You did not write what is the payment. No, it might be a good job for me. I am asking however rather out of curiosity. I have other plans right now. But I feel a bit unfairly treated when I get a long list of of what I am supposed to know and do and no information abut what will be the payment... zb. On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Anyone looking for a sysadmin-type position that has good > understanding of webserver as well as some understanding of > lan-servers. > Knowledge of FreeBSD is definately an asset (most of our servers have > been moved to BSD over 'nix). Sorry for the crappy formatting, I'm > pasting this from a word doc... > > > --------- > > > > > > > Technical Skills > > 5+ years as Unix System Administration - involving complex customization > 5+ years experience using Apache > Experience using Nagios, Cacti > Experience with SQL-Server and MySQL databases > 5+ years of Shell, Perl scripting experiences > Experienced in implementing large, high-availability systems > Experienced in database clustering would be a plus > Networking experience (including SNMP monitoring, load balancers) > Experience with Global Caching Solutions would be beneficial > ITIL experience is an asset > > > > Key Responsibilities Include: > > Initiates, reviews, monitors and advises on effectiveness of existing > computer and related systems equipment and performance of platform and > database technologies within the IT Department. > > Responsible for maintenance of websites, databases, email and associated systems > > Manage storage of large volumes of data, images, email ? including > creating and maintaining archiving strategies > > Provide production support for medium and high-volume web applications > > Monitor and maintain proper backup procedures including tape rotation > > Initiate or review security policies to insure secure office and > production environments > > Conduct preventative maintenance on production web, DB and email > servers, development and staging servers, load balancers and firewalls > > Administer email, DNS, scheduled jobs and partner data transfer processes. > > Provide technical support through deployment of patches or updates to > applications or data > > Respond to emerging situations on our sites/forums and applications to > preserve functionality and performance > > Be "on-call" during non-business hours in case of emergencies > > Provide CTO with advice on all matters required to support efficient operations > > > > Requirements: > > Candidates should posses at a diploma in Computer Science or > equivalent job experience. > > A very good understanding of email systems and protocols is essential > as is a strong systems and tools development background. > > The ability to work in a fast paced environment while adhering to > deadlines and committing to high quality performance is necessary in > the Systems Administrator role. > > Additionally incumbents must have or be able to: > > > Ability to exercise independent judgment. > Ability to conceptualize, visualize, prototype and design applications. > Use the most appropriate tools to develop the required application, > upgrade, modification and/or enhancement. > Analyze user requests or specifications provided to determine the > precise requirements. Interview key users to ensure an accurate > understanding of the requirements that includes application upgrade, > modification and/or enhancement, as necessary. > Assist users in acceptance testing of newly developed application, > modifications or upgrades. > Prepare complete documentation on the application, upgrade, > modification or enhancements produced. > Coordinate and work with programmers on projects. > Estimate the effort and time required for development, tests, and > implementation of projects. > Liaise with all team members and other teams to obtain regular reports > on the projects status. > Troubleshoot when problems arise within applications. > > > > > > > > INTERPERSONAL AND COMMUNICATION SKILLS : > Incumbent must be able to communicate clearly and concisely, both > verbally and in writing any information related to systems planning > and execution. The role demands effective collaboration and the > ability to take initiative to meet operational demands. The Incumbent > will be expected to support the corporate priorities and direction, > producing sound analyses and practical recommendations where > necessary. > > > Excellent Project Management skills. > Ability to clearly explain objectives, requirements and directions to others. > Good interpersonal skills to ascertain appropriate measures when problems arise > Good organizational and time management skills. > Ability to quickly learn new technologies and disseminate information > to other personnel, including non-technical people. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 25 20:00:31 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:00:31 +0000 Subject: Holux M1000 & gpsd Message-ID: <488A30DF.8040504@utoronto.ca> So I've got a neat little bluetooth GPS unit from Holux (who have Linux drivers and support, yay!). Problem I'm having with it is that when I check the output of gpsd via gpspipe -r the coordinates in each sentence are *way* off from my physical location, by a degree or more. Here's an example GPGGA sentence from the front patio at the linuxcaffe: 234306.000,4339.6063,N,07925.0513,W,2,11,0.82,113.2,M,-35.1,M,0000,0000*5C Punch 43.396060 -079.250503 into Google Earth and that is smack in the middle of Lake Ontario.. I can see that the 6th field of that output reads 2, which means the unit has a DGPS fix, and the 7th field shows 11 satellites in view, so what gives? Anyone able to point out where I'm misinterpreting what seems like pretty standard output? I've been using http://gpsd.berlios.de/NMEA.txt as a reference for the different sentences that the unit puts out, though GPGGA seems the most relevant for my purposes (plotting fixed locations) and storing the # of satellites in view. I'm a complete newbie with GPS but after 2 days am increasingly fascinated and hope to get this thing working well :) Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 26 01:17:00 2008 From: spamstinksmmmkay-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (R.T.) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:17:00 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: When I'm interviewing companies to hire me (yes, it works both ways), I usually require a company name and website too. On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:43 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > You did not write what is the payment. > > No, it might be a good job for me. I am asking however rather out of > curiosity. I have other plans right now. But I feel a bit unfairly > treated when I get a long list of of what I am supposed to know and do > and no information abut what will be the payment... > > zb. > > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Anyone looking for a sysadmin-type position that has good >> understanding of webserver as well as some understanding of >> lan-servers. >> Knowledge of FreeBSD is definately an asset (most of our servers have >> been moved to BSD over 'nix). Sorry for the crappy formatting, I'm >> pasting this from a word doc... >> >> >> --------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Technical Skills >> >> 5+ years as Unix System Administration - involving complex customization >> 5+ years experience using Apache >> Experience using Nagios, Cacti >> Experience with SQL-Server and MySQL databases >> 5+ years of Shell, Perl scripting experiences >> Experienced in implementing large, high-availability systems >> Experienced in database clustering would be a plus >> Networking experience (including SNMP monitoring, load balancers) >> Experience with Global Caching Solutions would be beneficial >> ITIL experience is an asset >> >> >> >> Key Responsibilities Include: >> >> Initiates, reviews, monitors and advises on effectiveness of existing >> computer and related systems equipment and performance of platform and >> database technologies within the IT Department. >> >> Responsible for maintenance of websites, databases, email and associated systems >> >> Manage storage of large volumes of data, images, email ? including >> creating and maintaining archiving strategies >> >> Provide production support for medium and high-volume web applications >> >> Monitor and maintain proper backup procedures including tape rotation >> >> Initiate or review security policies to insure secure office and >> production environments >> >> Conduct preventative maintenance on production web, DB and email >> servers, development and staging servers, load balancers and firewalls >> >> Administer email, DNS, scheduled jobs and partner data transfer processes. >> >> Provide technical support through deployment of patches or updates to >> applications or data >> >> Respond to emerging situations on our sites/forums and applications to >> preserve functionality and performance >> >> Be "on-call" during non-business hours in case of emergencies >> >> Provide CTO with advice on all matters required to support efficient operations >> >> >> >> Requirements: >> >> Candidates should posses at a diploma in Computer Science or >> equivalent job experience. >> >> A very good understanding of email systems and protocols is essential >> as is a strong systems and tools development background. >> >> The ability to work in a fast paced environment while adhering to >> deadlines and committing to high quality performance is necessary in >> the Systems Administrator role. >> >> Additionally incumbents must have or be able to: >> >> >> Ability to exercise independent judgment. >> Ability to conceptualize, visualize, prototype and design applications. >> Use the most appropriate tools to develop the required application, >> upgrade, modification and/or enhancement. >> Analyze user requests or specifications provided to determine the >> precise requirements. Interview key users to ensure an accurate >> understanding of the requirements that includes application upgrade, >> modification and/or enhancement, as necessary. >> Assist users in acceptance testing of newly developed application, >> modifications or upgrades. >> Prepare complete documentation on the application, upgrade, >> modification or enhancements produced. >> Coordinate and work with programmers on projects. >> Estimate the effort and time required for development, tests, and >> implementation of projects. >> Liaise with all team members and other teams to obtain regular reports >> on the projects status. >> Troubleshoot when problems arise within applications. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> INTERPERSONAL AND COMMUNICATION SKILLS : >> Incumbent must be able to communicate clearly and concisely, both >> verbally and in writing any information related to systems planning >> and execution. The role demands effective collaboration and the >> ability to take initiative to meet operational demands. The Incumbent >> will be expected to support the corporate priorities and direction, >> producing sound analyses and practical recommendations where >> necessary. >> >> >> Excellent Project Management skills. >> Ability to clearly explain objectives, requirements and directions to others. >> Good interpersonal skills to ascertain appropriate measures when problems arise >> Good organizational and time management skills. >> Ability to quickly learn new technologies and disseminate information >> to other personnel, including non-technical people. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 26 03:17:40 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:17:40 -0400 Subject: Motherboard Grrrr: the ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS -- BAD news... Message-ID: Just to continue the grumbles I have been having with ASUS re: the M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard, below is an e-mail I sent to the staff I have had contact with at ASUS. Anyone have the e-mail addresses of senior staff as ASUS that I could forward this on to? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Dear Kara Renner, Elijah Alexander and Blanca Ortiz; This e-mail is to note and explain my current unhappiness with the experiences I have had with purchase of one of your M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboards. I have normally been happy with ASUS products, something I have been very willing to note in publications I have written for, such as www.linuxjournal.com/article/8219 . Before purchasing the M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard I did take the precaution of reading the motherboard manual to make sure it supported net booting, and according to your documentation it does. After purchase it took me some time and effort to determine why this new machine would not net boot. The diagnose process did include downloading and installing the latest available BIOS. In the end the issue turned out to be a multicast MAC address burned into the motherboard. This multicast MAC address makes successful net booting out of the question. Having determined why the motherboard would not work, I called your firm, obtained an RMA number (EL864256) and I shipped the defective motherboard to your facility in Indiana (this in spite of the fact that your Canadian office is less than a 1 hour drive from my home). The motherboard was then returned to me, apparently untouched, as the MAC address on the motherboard had been not been changed. Further a secondary issue of concern, noted in the cover letter included with the motherboard, a BIOS bug, "MCFG area at e0000000 is not E-820-reserved" was not touched. Further telephone complaints triggered the shipping of a replacement BIOS ROM, which by the time it arrived at my location had be knocked around in transit. After some effort, bending pins I was able to install the ROM, but found that the motherboard would not even get to the POST messages after this change. Returning to the original BIOS ROM would at least allow the motherboard to display the POST messages. Additional calls resulted in my obtaining a second RMA number (2EL874667) and the shipping the motherboard yet again to your office in Indiana. This time I trust the motherboard will be repaired or replaced with a AMD AM2+ supporting microATX motherboard that does actually work. Going forward, regardless as to the result of this latest repair effort, this motherboard is a complete and total failure. My goal with this motherboard was to build a prototype basic "dumb" remote multimedia terminal that could be inexpensively, quickly built in significant numbers. For inexpensive, we are talking over $95, $55 for the motherboard, then over $40 for shipping multiple times to your office, plus a number dollars for incidental costs like long distance phone calls. The M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard compares very badly against your competitors in the $95 price range. In terms of time, this is not a system that can be assembled quickly. Not only have I had to spend significant amounts of time assembling / disassembling a PC around this motherboard. I have also had to spend time troubleshooting, packing / unpacking and waiting for the repair. I am now looking a minimum of about two months between purchase and being able to actually use this motherboard, a figure I do not have the time to repeat. In other words, this is a prototype I can not repeat. I will have to look to another motherboard, most likely from another manufacture, to achieve my original goals. You can assume this is the last M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard I will purchase, and may be the last ASUS product I will ever purchase. You can also assume that I will passing word of my poor experiences on via a number of routes, my writing, my presentations before local user groups and the mailing lists / web forms to which I belong. This way the people I know or come in contact with will not make the same purchasing error I made. Sincerely, Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 26 11:06:57 2008 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:06:57 -0400 Subject: Holux M1000 & gpsd In-Reply-To: <488A30DF.8040504-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>; from jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org on Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 16:00:31 -0400 References: <488A30DF.8040504@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20080726110657.GA1932@localhost> On Fri Jul 25,2008 04:00:31 PM Jamon Camisso wrote: > Here's an example GPGGA sentence from the front patio at the > linuxcaffe: > 234306.000,4339.6063,N,07925.0513,W,2,11,0.82,113.2,M,-35.1,M,0000,0000*5C > > Punch 43.396060 -079.250503 into Google Earth and that is smack in > the middle of Lake Ontario. You're not interpreting the lat./long. coordinates from the GGA sentence correctly. From the link you provided: -------------------- Where a numeric latitude or longitude is given, the two digits immediately to the left of the decimal point are whole minutes, to the right are decimals of minutes, and the remaining digits to the left of the whole minutes are whole degrees. Eg. 4533.35 is 45 degrees and 33.35 minutes. ".35" of a minute is exactly 21 seconds. Eg. 16708.033 is 167 degrees and 8.033 minutes. ".033" of a minute is about 2 seconds. -------------------- When I enter your example coordinates into my GPS receiver I get a position on Grace St. about 20 metres north of Harbord St. For Google Maps (and presumably Google Earth), enter N43 39.606 W079 25.0513 Note the space after the first 2 digits to the left of the decimal point. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 26 12:54:04 2008 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Motherboard Grrrr: the ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS -- BAD news... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1955.99.253.255.228.1217076844.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> I wonder if Slashdot would publish this? Now *that* would get their attention. There is a precedent for this: Slashdot listed another mobo that had bios issues - it would boot windows but not linux. Peter > Just to continue the grumbles I have been having with ASUS re: the > M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard, below is an e-mail I sent to the staff I > have had contact with at ASUS. Anyone have the e-mail addresses of > senior staff as ASUS that I could forward this on to? > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > Dear Kara Renner, Elijah Alexander and Blanca Ortiz; > > This e-mail is to note and explain my current unhappiness with the > experiences I have had with purchase of one of your M2N-MX SE PLUS > motherboards. I have normally been happy with ASUS products, something > I have been very willing to note in publications I have written for, > such as www.linuxjournal.com/article/8219 . > > Before purchasing the M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard I did take the > precaution of reading the motherboard manual to make sure it supported > net booting, and according to your documentation it does. > > After purchase it took me some time and effort to determine why this > new machine would not net boot. The diagnose process did include > downloading and installing the latest available BIOS. In the end the > issue turned out to be a multicast MAC address burned into the > motherboard. This multicast MAC address makes successful net booting > out of the question. Having determined why the motherboard would not > work, I called your firm, obtained an RMA number (EL864256) and I > shipped the defective motherboard to your facility in Indiana (this in > spite of the fact that your Canadian office is less than a 1 hour > drive from my home). The motherboard was then returned to me, > apparently untouched, as the MAC address on the motherboard had been > not been changed. Further a secondary issue of concern, noted in the > cover letter included with the motherboard, a BIOS bug, "MCFG area at > e0000000 is not E-820-reserved" was not touched. > > Further telephone complaints triggered the shipping of a replacement > BIOS ROM, which by the time it arrived at my location had be knocked > around in transit. After some effort, bending pins I was able to > install the ROM, but found that the motherboard would not even get to > the POST messages after this change. Returning to the original BIOS > ROM would at least allow the motherboard to display the POST messages. > > Additional calls resulted in my obtaining a second RMA number > (2EL874667) and the shipping the motherboard yet again to your office > in Indiana. This time I trust the motherboard will be repaired or > replaced with a AMD AM2+ supporting microATX motherboard that does > actually work. > > Going forward, regardless as to the result of this latest repair > effort, this motherboard is a complete and total failure. > > My goal with this motherboard was to build a prototype basic "dumb" > remote multimedia terminal that could be inexpensively, quickly built > in significant numbers. For inexpensive, we are talking over $95, $55 > for the motherboard, then over $40 for shipping multiple times to your > office, plus a number dollars for incidental costs like long distance > phone calls. The M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard compares very badly > against your competitors in the $95 price range. In terms of time, > this is not a system that can be assembled quickly. Not only have I > had to spend significant amounts of time assembling / disassembling a > PC around this motherboard. I have also had to spend time > troubleshooting, packing / unpacking and waiting for the repair. I am > now looking a minimum of about two months between purchase and being > able to actually use this motherboard, a figure I do not have the time > to repeat. In other words, this is a prototype I can not repeat. I > will have to look to another motherboard, most likely from another > manufacture, to achieve my original goals. > > You can assume this is the last M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard I will > purchase, and may be the last ASUS product I will ever purchase. You > can also assume that I will passing word of my poor experiences on via > a number of routes, my writing, my presentations before local user > groups and the mailing lists / web forms to which I belong. This way > the people I know or come in contact with will not make the same > purchasing error I made. > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > Colin McGregor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Peter Hiscocks Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto http://www.syscompdesign.com USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator 647-839-0325 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 26 13:35:10 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 09:35:10 -0400 Subject: Holux M1000 & gpsd In-Reply-To: <20080726110657.GA1932@localhost> References: <488A30DF.8040504@utoronto.ca> <20080726110657.GA1932@localhost> Message-ID: <488B280E.1000805@utoronto.ca> Scott Allen wrote: > On Fri Jul 25,2008 04:00:31 PM Jamon Camisso wrote: >> Here's an example GPGGA sentence from the front patio at the linuxcaffe: >> 234306.000,4339.6063,N,07925.0513,W,2,11,0.82,113.2,M,-35.1,M,0000,0000*5C >> >> >> Punch 43.396060 -079.250503 into Google Earth and that is smack in the >> middle of Lake Ontario. > > You're not interpreting the lat./long. coordinates from the GGA sentence > correctly. > From the link you provided: > > -------------------- > Where a numeric latitude or longitude is given, the two digits > immediately to the left of the decimal point are whole minutes, to the > right are decimals of minutes, and the remaining digits to the left of > the whole minutes are whole degrees. > > Eg. 4533.35 is 45 degrees and 33.35 minutes. ".35" of a minute is > exactly 21 seconds. > > Eg. 16708.033 is 167 degrees and 8.033 minutes. ".033" of a minute is > about 2 seconds. > -------------------- Doh, that makes sense now, thanks! I figured it was some kind of operator error. I should be able to use the gpspipe output with Python relatively easily now. > When I enter your example coordinates into my GPS receiver I get a > position on Grace St. about 20 metres north of Harbord St. > > For Google Maps (and presumably Google Earth), enter N43 39.606 W079 > 25.0513 > Note the space after the first 2 digits to the left of the decimal point. That's really interesting, even with 11 satellites the location is still off. Will have to try starting in a location where I can get a more precise coordinate and start walking to see where things go wonky. Many thanks! Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 26 15:06:36 2008 From: gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Giles Orr) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:06:36 -0400 Subject: Motherboard Grrrr: the ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS -- BAD news... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1f13df280807260806u349f8d95rdd847a1a7cc6e862@mail.gmail.com> 2008/7/25 Colin McGregor : > Just to continue the grumbles I have been having with ASUS re: the > M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard, below is an e-mail I sent to the staff I > have had contact with at ASUS. Anyone have the e-mail addresses of > senior staff as ASUS that I could forward this on to? I stopped buying ASUS about three years ago. Their motherboards are generally great, and very reliable (your experience being one of exceptions). I spent hours on the phone to them and ultimately gave up in disgust: they were unwilling to help or issue an RMA despite the board still being in warranty. Or perhaps they would have if I'd spent ten hours on the phone instead of three. But I decided my time and money were better spent buying another mobo from a different company, which I did. Gigabyte, I think? It's been fine ever since. ASUS do indeed (generally) make very good boards, but when one of their boards dies their support is some of the worst on the planet. Save yourself the grief, just buy another board from someone else. -- Giles http://www.gilesorr.com/ gilesorr-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 26 15:15:14 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:15:14 -0400 Subject: Motherboard Grrrr: the ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS -- BAD news... In-Reply-To: <1955.99.253.255.228.1217076844.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1955.99.253.255.228.1217076844.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: On 7/26/08, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I wonder if Slashdot would publish this? Now *that* would get their > attention. > > There is a precedent for this: Slashdot listed another mobo that had bios > issues - it would boot windows but not linux. Well, I doubt Slashdot would be anywhere near as interested in the story of this motherboard, which will boot Linux off a hard drive and/or optical drive, just not off the network. Further unlike the Foxconn attitude that seems @#$% Linux users, the attitude I seem to be getting from ASUS is pleasant, clueless, but pleasant. Any event I did post the letter as one of the comments in the Foxconn story, and shall see where that goes... Colin. > Peter > >> Just to continue the grumbles I have been having with ASUS re: the >> M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard, below is an e-mail I sent to the staff I >> have had contact with at ASUS. Anyone have the e-mail addresses of >> senior staff as ASUS that I could forward this on to? >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >> >> Dear Kara Renner, Elijah Alexander and Blanca Ortiz; >> >> This e-mail is to note and explain my current unhappiness with the >> experiences I have had with purchase of one of your M2N-MX SE PLUS >> motherboards. I have normally been happy with ASUS products, something >> I have been very willing to note in publications I have written for, >> such as www.linuxjournal.com/article/8219 . >> >> Before purchasing the M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard I did take the >> precaution of reading the motherboard manual to make sure it supported >> net booting, and according to your documentation it does. >> >> After purchase it took me some time and effort to determine why this >> new machine would not net boot. The diagnose process did include >> downloading and installing the latest available BIOS. In the end the >> issue turned out to be a multicast MAC address burned into the >> motherboard. This multicast MAC address makes successful net booting >> out of the question. Having determined why the motherboard would not >> work, I called your firm, obtained an RMA number (EL864256) and I >> shipped the defective motherboard to your facility in Indiana (this in >> spite of the fact that your Canadian office is less than a 1 hour >> drive from my home). The motherboard was then returned to me, >> apparently untouched, as the MAC address on the motherboard had been >> not been changed. Further a secondary issue of concern, noted in the >> cover letter included with the motherboard, a BIOS bug, "MCFG area at >> e0000000 is not E-820-reserved" was not touched. >> >> Further telephone complaints triggered the shipping of a replacement >> BIOS ROM, which by the time it arrived at my location had be knocked >> around in transit. After some effort, bending pins I was able to >> install the ROM, but found that the motherboard would not even get to >> the POST messages after this change. Returning to the original BIOS >> ROM would at least allow the motherboard to display the POST messages. >> >> Additional calls resulted in my obtaining a second RMA number >> (2EL874667) and the shipping the motherboard yet again to your office >> in Indiana. This time I trust the motherboard will be repaired or >> replaced with a AMD AM2+ supporting microATX motherboard that does >> actually work. >> >> Going forward, regardless as to the result of this latest repair >> effort, this motherboard is a complete and total failure. >> >> My goal with this motherboard was to build a prototype basic "dumb" >> remote multimedia terminal that could be inexpensively, quickly built >> in significant numbers. For inexpensive, we are talking over $95, $55 >> for the motherboard, then over $40 for shipping multiple times to your >> office, plus a number dollars for incidental costs like long distance >> phone calls. The M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard compares very badly >> against your competitors in the $95 price range. In terms of time, >> this is not a system that can be assembled quickly. Not only have I >> had to spend significant amounts of time assembling / disassembling a >> PC around this motherboard. I have also had to spend time >> troubleshooting, packing / unpacking and waiting for the repair. I am >> now looking a minimum of about two months between purchase and being >> able to actually use this motherboard, a figure I do not have the time >> to repeat. In other words, this is a prototype I can not repeat. I >> will have to look to another motherboard, most likely from another >> manufacture, to achieve my original goals. >> >> You can assume this is the last M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard I will >> purchase, and may be the last ASUS product I will ever purchase. You >> can also assume that I will passing word of my poor experiences on via >> a number of routes, my writing, my presentations before local user >> groups and the mailing lists / web forms to which I belong. This way >> the people I know or come in contact with will not make the same >> purchasing error I made. >> >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> >> >> Colin McGregor >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > -- > Peter Hiscocks > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > http://www.syscompdesign.com > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > 647-839-0325 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 26 17:53:26 2008 From: richard-gNTHUr35LhcAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Weait) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:53:26 -0400 Subject: Holux M1000 & gpsd In-Reply-To: <488B280E.1000805-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <488A30DF.8040504@utoronto.ca> <20080726110657.GA1932@localhost> <488B280E.1000805@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <1217094806.7245.94.camel@leon> On Sat, 2008-07-26 at 09:35 -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Scott Allen wrote: > > For Google Maps (and presumably Google Earth), enter N43 39.606 W079 > > 25.0513 > > Note the space after the first 2 digits to the left of the decimal point. > > That's really interesting, even with 11 satellites the location is still > off. Will have to try starting in a location where I can get a more > precise coordinate and start walking to see where things go wonky. A couple of things. Don't presume that the imagery in Google earth is perfectly aligned. Their data is only as good as their sources (and rounding during however many conversions from the original source). Better reception and lower DOP values will be found away from structures and tall vegetation. Reception downtown in the concrete canyons is really bad. When you can see a lot of horizon you get the best reception. Like in the middle of a prairie or lake. Funny thing is; there's nothing there! Nobody cares what is in exactly the middle of nowhere! :-) For fun, check how your GPS location of LinuxCaffe aligns with my placement of LinuxCaffe on OpenStreetMap. http://openstreetmap.org/ then use the search box. Best regards, Richard -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 26 19:43:43 2008 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:43:43 -0400 Subject: Motherboard Grrrr: the ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS -- BAD news... In-Reply-To: References: <1955.99.253.255.228.1217076844.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20080726154343.acb25900.tleslie@tcn.net> if i remember correctly the TLLTS had the guy in charge of linux support for asus on about 4-8 months ago, you could work with the TLLTS to get his email address, this guy was very nice to come on the TLLTS, and maybe through that connection, and even involving Dan or Linc or most likely Pat to resolve it and maybe even bring it up in a show as a discussion issue. - now this isnt directly a linux thing, but since your using linux for what you want to achieve ..... and i just looked it up it was: Chad Ricker from Asus technical support episode 205 -tl On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:15:14 -0400 "Colin McGregor" wrote: > On 7/26/08, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I wonder if Slashdot would publish this? Now *that* would get their > > attention. > > > > There is a precedent for this: Slashdot listed another mobo that had bios > > issues - it would boot windows but not linux. > > Well, I doubt Slashdot would be anywhere near as interested in the > story of this motherboard, which will boot Linux off a hard drive > and/or optical drive, just not off the network. Further unlike the > Foxconn attitude that seems @#$% Linux users, the attitude I seem to > be getting from ASUS is pleasant, clueless, but pleasant. > > Any event I did post the letter as one of the comments in the Foxconn > story, and shall see where that goes... > > Colin. > > > Peter > > > >> Just to continue the grumbles I have been having with ASUS re: the > >> M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard, below is an e-mail I sent to the staff I > >> have had contact with at ASUS. Anyone have the e-mail addresses of > >> senior staff as ASUS that I could forward this on to? > >> > >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > >> > >> Dear Kara Renner, Elijah Alexander and Blanca Ortiz; > >> > >> This e-mail is to note and explain my current unhappiness with the > >> experiences I have had with purchase of one of your M2N-MX SE PLUS > >> motherboards. I have normally been happy with ASUS products, something > >> I have been very willing to note in publications I have written for, > >> such as www.linuxjournal.com/article/8219 . > >> > >> Before purchasing the M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard I did take the > >> precaution of reading the motherboard manual to make sure it supported > >> net booting, and according to your documentation it does. > >> > >> After purchase it took me some time and effort to determine why this > >> new machine would not net boot. The diagnose process did include > >> downloading and installing the latest available BIOS. In the end the > >> issue turned out to be a multicast MAC address burned into the > >> motherboard. This multicast MAC address makes successful net booting > >> out of the question. Having determined why the motherboard would not > >> work, I called your firm, obtained an RMA number (EL864256) and I > >> shipped the defective motherboard to your facility in Indiana (this in > >> spite of the fact that your Canadian office is less than a 1 hour > >> drive from my home). The motherboard was then returned to me, > >> apparently untouched, as the MAC address on the motherboard had been > >> not been changed. Further a secondary issue of concern, noted in the > >> cover letter included with the motherboard, a BIOS bug, "MCFG area at > >> e0000000 is not E-820-reserved" was not touched. > >> > >> Further telephone complaints triggered the shipping of a replacement > >> BIOS ROM, which by the time it arrived at my location had be knocked > >> around in transit. After some effort, bending pins I was able to > >> install the ROM, but found that the motherboard would not even get to > >> the POST messages after this change. Returning to the original BIOS > >> ROM would at least allow the motherboard to display the POST messages. > >> > >> Additional calls resulted in my obtaining a second RMA number > >> (2EL874667) and the shipping the motherboard yet again to your office > >> in Indiana. This time I trust the motherboard will be repaired or > >> replaced with a AMD AM2+ supporting microATX motherboard that does > >> actually work. > >> > >> Going forward, regardless as to the result of this latest repair > >> effort, this motherboard is a complete and total failure. > >> > >> My goal with this motherboard was to build a prototype basic "dumb" > >> remote multimedia terminal that could be inexpensively, quickly built > >> in significant numbers. For inexpensive, we are talking over $95, $55 > >> for the motherboard, then over $40 for shipping multiple times to your > >> office, plus a number dollars for incidental costs like long distance > >> phone calls. The M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard compares very badly > >> against your competitors in the $95 price range. In terms of time, > >> this is not a system that can be assembled quickly. Not only have I > >> had to spend significant amounts of time assembling / disassembling a > >> PC around this motherboard. I have also had to spend time > >> troubleshooting, packing / unpacking and waiting for the repair. I am > >> now looking a minimum of about two months between purchase and being > >> able to actually use this motherboard, a figure I do not have the time > >> to repeat. In other words, this is a prototype I can not repeat. I > >> will have to look to another motherboard, most likely from another > >> manufacture, to achieve my original goals. > >> > >> You can assume this is the last M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard I will > >> purchase, and may be the last ASUS product I will ever purchase. You > >> can also assume that I will passing word of my poor experiences on via > >> a number of routes, my writing, my presentations before local user > >> groups and the mailing lists / web forms to which I belong. This way > >> the people I know or come in contact with will not make the same > >> purchasing error I made. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Colin McGregor > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > >> > > > > > > -- > > Peter Hiscocks > > Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto > > http://www.syscompdesign.com > > USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator > > 647-839-0325 > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- ted leslie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 27 01:35:42 2008 From: colin.mc151-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 21:35:42 -0400 Subject: OT: Anyone for baseball? Message-ID: For those on this list who are not familiar with the term baseball, here is the wikipedia reference: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball . Tomorrow the Toronto Blue Jays team will be playing against the Seattle Mariners team here at the Toronto Skydome stadium (big building beside the CN Tower, not far from 151 Front Street, can't miss it :-) ) all starting at 1:07 PM. My cousin has gotten his hands on four 500 level tickets, all in different parts of the level (this is the upper most level, closer to the roof than field). Cousin and I will be using two of the tickets, with two left over. So, who on this list would be interested in watching a baseball game (or have a good excuse to have over priced food / drink :-) ). Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 27 20:56:15 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 16:56:15 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0@mail.gmail.com> I believe in most cases the pay-rate is somewhat open to negotiation, but I believe the pay-rates can vary a fair bit depending on experience (I'm in the IT Department, so I know how much I make but not what my co-workers or predecessors did). For the company website, see here: http://www.verticalscope.com Regards, TJA On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:43 PM, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > You did not write what is the payment. > > No, it might be a good job for me. I am asking however rather out of > curiosity. I have other plans right now. But I feel a bit unfairly > treated when I get a long list of of what I am supposed to know and do > and no information abut what will be the payment... > > zb. > > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Anyone looking for a sysadmin-type position that has good >> understanding of webserver as well as some understanding of >> lan-servers. >> Knowledge of FreeBSD is definately an asset (most of our servers have >> been moved to BSD over 'nix). Sorry for the crappy formatting, I'm >> pasting this from a word doc... >> >> >> --------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Technical Skills >> >> 5+ years as Unix System Administration - involving complex customization >> 5+ years experience using Apache >> Experience using Nagios, Cacti >> Experience with SQL-Server and MySQL databases >> 5+ years of Shell, Perl scripting experiences >> Experienced in implementing large, high-availability systems >> Experienced in database clustering would be a plus >> Networking experience (including SNMP monitoring, load balancers) >> Experience with Global Caching Solutions would be beneficial >> ITIL experience is an asset >> >> >> >> Key Responsibilities Include: >> >> Initiates, reviews, monitors and advises on effectiveness of existing >> computer and related systems equipment and performance of platform and >> database technologies within the IT Department. >> >> Responsible for maintenance of websites, databases, email and associated systems >> >> Manage storage of large volumes of data, images, email ? including >> creating and maintaining archiving strategies >> >> Provide production support for medium and high-volume web applications >> >> Monitor and maintain proper backup procedures including tape rotation >> >> Initiate or review security policies to insure secure office and >> production environments >> >> Conduct preventative maintenance on production web, DB and email >> servers, development and staging servers, load balancers and firewalls >> >> Administer email, DNS, scheduled jobs and partner data transfer processes. >> >> Provide technical support through deployment of patches or updates to >> applications or data >> >> Respond to emerging situations on our sites/forums and applications to >> preserve functionality and performance >> >> Be "on-call" during non-business hours in case of emergencies >> >> Provide CTO with advice on all matters required to support efficient operations >> >> >> >> Requirements: >> >> Candidates should posses at a diploma in Computer Science or >> equivalent job experience. >> >> A very good understanding of email systems and protocols is essential >> as is a strong systems and tools development background. >> >> The ability to work in a fast paced environment while adhering to >> deadlines and committing to high quality performance is necessary in >> the Systems Administrator role. >> >> Additionally incumbents must have or be able to: >> >> >> Ability to exercise independent judgment. >> Ability to conceptualize, visualize, prototype and design applications. >> Use the most appropriate tools to develop the required application, >> upgrade, modification and/or enhancement. >> Analyze user requests or specifications provided to determine the >> precise requirements. Interview key users to ensure an accurate >> understanding of the requirements that includes application upgrade, >> modification and/or enhancement, as necessary. >> Assist users in acceptance testing of newly developed application, >> modifications or upgrades. >> Prepare complete documentation on the application, upgrade, >> modification or enhancements produced. >> Coordinate and work with programmers on projects. >> Estimate the effort and time required for development, tests, and >> implementation of projects. >> Liaise with all team members and other teams to obtain regular reports >> on the projects status. >> Troubleshoot when problems arise within applications. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> INTERPERSONAL AND COMMUNICATION SKILLS : >> Incumbent must be able to communicate clearly and concisely, both >> verbally and in writing any information related to systems planning >> and execution. The role demands effective collaboration and the >> ability to take initiative to meet operational demands. The Incumbent >> will be expected to support the corporate priorities and direction, >> producing sound analyses and practical recommendations where >> necessary. >> >> >> Excellent Project Management skills. >> Ability to clearly explain objectives, requirements and directions to others. >> Good interpersonal skills to ascertain appropriate measures when problems arise >> Good organizational and time management skills. >> Ability to quickly learn new technologies and disseminate information >> to other personnel, including non-technical people. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 27 21:14:25 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 17:14:25 -0400 Subject: Motherboard Grrrr: the ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS -- BAD news... In-Reply-To: References: <1955.99.253.255.228.1217076844.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807271414l7c03933fr8ee7a9cfd538f2a0@mail.gmail.com> I think the article on slash was about a Foxconn board, and so far as I can tell it was specific to one board. Yeah, for the Foxconn board, they had specific BIOS tables for various OS's, and the linux-specific one was faulty. I found it interesting to hear the bad news about Foxconn boards on slashdot, since I seem to remember my former employer (large'ish school district using a *lot* of linux on both servers and desktops) having quite a number of machines running without issues (having Foxconn boards). Other than a few driver issues for built-in video/audio that were eventually resolved, I've never experienced any particular board outright disliking a linux install, although I did have a few issues with those having the Intel HD-Audio chipset until the newer kernel driver was released... In regards to the "MCFG area at e0000000 is not E-820-reserved" issue. This one has cropped up on one of my machines having an ECS board (foxconn-related brand apparently?), but it's never caused any outright crashes... though that could be because I don't use any suspend functions, etc. Too bad you're having such issues with Asus on this board, as from what I've heard their support is actually fairly decent (or at least comparable to various other brands). I was thinking on getting an Asus-branded laptop to replace my old-and-dying HP, but perhaps now I'll hold off on this and do some more investigation. Thanks for keeping us up-to-date. I'd say post it to slashdot. The worst that will happen is the submission gets rejected :-) For companies that can sell tens to hundreds of thousands of boards claiming that the support Spec or Technology X... it's just plain ignorance, laziness, or maliciousness to have have bugs like this and then make customers jump through hoops to deal with the company's buggy coding. One of the nice things about the internet is one persons trials and grumbling can quickly become a warning to thousands of others... which is more likely to make the company in question sit up and take notice. - Tyler On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Colin McGregor wrote: > On 7/26/08, phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >> I wonder if Slashdot would publish this? Now *that* would get their >> attention. >> >> There is a precedent for this: Slashdot listed another mobo that had bios >> issues - it would boot windows but not linux. > > Well, I doubt Slashdot would be anywhere near as interested in the > story of this motherboard, which will boot Linux off a hard drive > and/or optical drive, just not off the network. Further unlike the > Foxconn attitude that seems @#$% Linux users, the attitude I seem to > be getting from ASUS is pleasant, clueless, but pleasant. > > Any event I did post the letter as one of the comments in the Foxconn > story, and shall see where that goes... > > Colin. > >> Peter >> >>> Just to continue the grumbles I have been having with ASUS re: the >>> M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard, below is an e-mail I sent to the staff I >>> have had contact with at ASUS. Anyone have the e-mail addresses of >>> senior staff as ASUS that I could forward this on to? >>> >>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >>> >>> Dear Kara Renner, Elijah Alexander and Blanca Ortiz; >>> >>> This e-mail is to note and explain my current unhappiness with the >>> experiences I have had with purchase of one of your M2N-MX SE PLUS >>> motherboards. I have normally been happy with ASUS products, something >>> I have been very willing to note in publications I have written for, >>> such as www.linuxjournal.com/article/8219 . >>> >>> Before purchasing the M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard I did take the >>> precaution of reading the motherboard manual to make sure it supported >>> net booting, and according to your documentation it does. >>> >>> After purchase it took me some time and effort to determine why this >>> new machine would not net boot. The diagnose process did include >>> downloading and installing the latest available BIOS. In the end the >>> issue turned out to be a multicast MAC address burned into the >>> motherboard. This multicast MAC address makes successful net booting >>> out of the question. Having determined why the motherboard would not >>> work, I called your firm, obtained an RMA number (EL864256) and I >>> shipped the defective motherboard to your facility in Indiana (this in >>> spite of the fact that your Canadian office is less than a 1 hour >>> drive from my home). The motherboard was then returned to me, >>> apparently untouched, as the MAC address on the motherboard had been >>> not been changed. Further a secondary issue of concern, noted in the >>> cover letter included with the motherboard, a BIOS bug, "MCFG area at >>> e0000000 is not E-820-reserved" was not touched. >>> >>> Further telephone complaints triggered the shipping of a replacement >>> BIOS ROM, which by the time it arrived at my location had be knocked >>> around in transit. After some effort, bending pins I was able to >>> install the ROM, but found that the motherboard would not even get to >>> the POST messages after this change. Returning to the original BIOS >>> ROM would at least allow the motherboard to display the POST messages. >>> >>> Additional calls resulted in my obtaining a second RMA number >>> (2EL874667) and the shipping the motherboard yet again to your office >>> in Indiana. This time I trust the motherboard will be repaired or >>> replaced with a AMD AM2+ supporting microATX motherboard that does >>> actually work. >>> >>> Going forward, regardless as to the result of this latest repair >>> effort, this motherboard is a complete and total failure. >>> >>> My goal with this motherboard was to build a prototype basic "dumb" >>> remote multimedia terminal that could be inexpensively, quickly built >>> in significant numbers. For inexpensive, we are talking over $95, $55 >>> for the motherboard, then over $40 for shipping multiple times to your >>> office, plus a number dollars for incidental costs like long distance >>> phone calls. The M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard compares very badly >>> against your competitors in the $95 price range. In terms of time, >>> this is not a system that can be assembled quickly. Not only have I >>> had to spend significant amounts of time assembling / disassembling a >>> PC around this motherboard. I have also had to spend time >>> troubleshooting, packing / unpacking and waiting for the repair. I am >>> now looking a minimum of about two months between purchase and being >>> able to actually use this motherboard, a figure I do not have the time >>> to repeat. In other words, this is a prototype I can not repeat. I >>> will have to look to another motherboard, most likely from another >>> manufacture, to achieve my original goals. >>> >>> You can assume this is the last M2N-MX SE PLUS motherboard I will >>> purchase, and may be the last ASUS product I will ever purchase. You >>> can also assume that I will passing word of my poor experiences on via >>> a number of routes, my writing, my presentations before local user >>> groups and the mailing lists / web forms to which I belong. This way >>> the people I know or come in contact with will not make the same >>> purchasing error I made. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Colin McGregor >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> >> -- >> Peter Hiscocks >> Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto >> http://www.syscompdesign.com >> USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator >> 647-839-0325 >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 28 12:27:01 2008 From: tlug-neil-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q at public.gmane.org (Neil Watson) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:27:01 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080728122701.GA14701@watson-wilson.ca> On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 04:56:15PM -0400, Tyler Aviss wrote: >I believe in most cases the pay-rate is somewhat open to negotiation, >but I believe the pay-rates can vary a fair bit depending on >experience (I'm in the IT Department, so I know how much I make but >not what my co-workers or predecessors did). This really frustrates me. You spend time preparing and going to interviews only to find out afterward, sometimes after more than one interview, that they are not willing to pay what you would like. Why waste everyone's time wasted in the first place? I am almost certain that employers often do not advertise or tell you what they are willing to pay in hopes that you will low ball yourself thus saving them money. For me this is another example of how the hiring process is entirely counter productive of the goal of hiring the correct candidate. -- Neil Watson System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 28 15:10:29 2008 From: simon-tlug-GaisZHhRk3c at public.gmane.org (Simon P. Ditner) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FreeSWITCH talk, Wed July 30th, 6:30pm Message-ID: Hi All, The Toronto Asterisk User Group has an out of town speaker this month, and (as always) welcomes TLUG members to join us and see what we're about. Michael Jerris, one of the developers of FreeSWITCH[1], a scalable open source telephony softswitch, will be giving an introduction to it's design including its modular architecture, implemented functionality, and approach to development this Wednesday @ 6:30pm in the North York Civic Centre, Committee Room 1. See http://taug.ca/node/146 for further details. Cheers, Simon P. Ditner TAUG Talk Coordinator [1] http://www.freeswitch.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 28 20:00:41 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:00:41 -0400 Subject: Partitioning for Dual Boot With Vista In-Reply-To: <488618F6.4080304-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <488618F6.4080304@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20080728200041.GT31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 01:29:26PM -0400, John Moniz wrote: > I just bought a new PC which came with Vista and I want to partition it > to have mostly Linux space. We had this topic here recently and I recall > that if the partitioning was done with the Vista partitioner, there > should be no trouble rebooting Vista. I also recall that Vista may put > files far into the drive, restricting how much space could be freed. > > I have a 500GB drive. I partitioned with the Vista tool and the NTFS > partition would not go below about 235GB. Truthfully, that leaves me > lots of space for Linux, more than I ever had. Maybe I'm being a bit of > a prick, but there's no damn way I want Vista to have half of my drive. > > Is there a way to reduce the NTFS partition further without destroying > Vista? If not, since this PC came with a recovery partition rather than > a DVD, would I be safe in blowing away Vista, reducing it to something > like 50GB (maybe 100GB if I'm feeling generous), and recovering Vista > again? That is, should the recovery program use what's available rather > than try (and fail) to spread out Vista as before? > > As a related question, if I were to leave things alone, is writing to an > NTFS partition still risky? Many recovery programs only support restoring to original state, which means it would rewrite the partition table too. If you try resizing with something other than vista, you often break the boot loader in vista. You can fix that using the recovery consle very easily, excapt that is only found on real install disks (not recovery DVDs). The upgrade anytime (or whatever they call it) DVD that some machines ship with is in fact a full DVD and has a recovery console. In my case when my wife resized her vista partition, we used gparted (from a livecd) to resize it, and then booted from one of the vista rc DVDs I downloaded back when those were available, and used the recovery console on the RC DVD to fix the boot loader, and vista was perfectly happy. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 28 20:05:04 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:05:04 -0400 Subject: Motherboard Grrrr: the ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS -- BAD news... In-Reply-To: <20080726154343.acb25900.tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc@public.gmane.org> References: <1955.99.253.255.228.1217076844.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <20080726154343.acb25900.tleslie@tcn.net> Message-ID: <20080728200504.GU31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 03:43:43PM -0400, ted leslie wrote: > if i remember correctly the TLLTS had the guy in charge of linux support for asus on > about 4-8 months ago, > you could work with the TLLTS to get his email address, > this guy was very nice to come on the TLLTS, > and maybe through that connection, and even > involving Dan or Linc or most likely Pat to resolve it > and maybe even bring it up in a show as a discussion issue. > - now this isnt directly a linux thing, but since your using linux > for what you want to achieve ..... > > and i just looked it up it was: > Chad Ricker from Asus technical support > episode 205 But this isn't a linux issue, it is an issue of a board that is incapable of network booting even though it claims that as a feature. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 28 20:07:08 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:07:08 -0400 Subject: Motherboard Grrrr: the ASUS M2N-MX SE PLUS -- BAD news... In-Reply-To: <1f13df280807260806u349f8d95rdd847a1a7cc6e862-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1f13df280807260806u349f8d95rdd847a1a7cc6e862@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080728200708.GV31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 11:06:36AM -0400, Giles Orr wrote: > I stopped buying ASUS about three years ago. Their motherboards are > generally great, and very reliable (your experience being one of > exceptions). I spent hours on the phone to them and ultimately gave > up in disgust: they were unwilling to help or issue an RMA despite the > board still being in warranty. Or perhaps they would have if I'd > spent ten hours on the phone instead of three. But I decided my time > and money were better spent buying another mobo from a different > company, which I did. Gigabyte, I think? It's been fine ever since. > > ASUS do indeed (generally) make very good boards, but when one of > their boards dies their support is some of the worst on the planet. > Save yourself the grief, just buy another board from someone else. Strangely for their laptops the support is fantastic and getting an RMA is trivial. And you can simply drop the laptop off at asus in markham and have it back usually within 24 hours. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 28 20:32:36 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:32:36 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: <20080728122701.GA14701-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0@mail.gmail.com> <20080728122701.GA14701@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807281332y7ba10b78x9acf54d80c40a8b3@mail.gmail.com> I'd expect it that it can be brought up on the first interview, after discussing your qualifications, etc. That's how it worked for me, if I remember correctly. On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 8:27 AM, Neil Watson wrote: > On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 04:56:15PM -0400, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> I believe in most cases the pay-rate is somewhat open to negotiation, >> but I believe the pay-rates can vary a fair bit depending on >> experience (I'm in the IT Department, so I know how much I make but >> not what my co-workers or predecessors did). > > This really frustrates me. You spend time preparing and going to > interviews only to find out afterward, sometimes after more than one > interview, that they are not willing to pay what you would like. Why > waste everyone's time wasted in the first place? I am almost certain > that employers often do not advertise or tell you what they are willing > to pay in hopes that you will low ball yourself thus saving them money. > For me this is another example of how the hiring process is entirely > counter productive of the goal of hiring the correct candidate. > > -- > Neil Watson > System Administrator for hire http://watson-wilson.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 28 20:35:07 2008 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:35:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Partitioning for Dual Boot With Vista In-Reply-To: <48872628.1050502-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <488618F6.4080304@sympatico.ca> <1f13df280807221720k751a0c3ep666cad87703b3014@mail.gmail.com> <48872628.1050502@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <51772.192.30.202.29.1217277307.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> I have found that when I use FAT32 partitions, if the partition is larger than 8 GB, then there are abrupt changes in cluster size at roughly powers of 2. For example, 32 GB, in FAT32, has an optimal size of 32781 MB. Increasing the partition size by even one MB doubles the cluster size, and halves the number of files which can be stored. I have no idea whether this applies to NTFS. James ('Jim') E. McIntosh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 28 20:51:26 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:51:26 -0400 Subject: Partitioning for Dual Boot With Vista In-Reply-To: <51772.192.30.202.29.1217277307.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <488618F6.4080304@sympatico.ca> <1f13df280807221720k751a0c3ep666cad87703b3014@mail.gmail.com> <48872628.1050502@sympatico.ca> <51772.192.30.202.29.1217277307.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20080728205126.GW31125@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 04:35:07PM -0400, jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org wrote: > I have found that when I use FAT32 partitions, if the partition is larger > than 8 GB, then there are abrupt changes in cluster size at roughly powers > of 2. > > For example, 32 GB, in FAT32, has an optimal size of 32781 MB. Increasing > the partition size by even one MB doubles the cluster size, and halves the > number of files which can be stored. > > I have no idea whether this applies to NTFS. No it doesn't. NTFS is a modern FS, not a piece of crap like FAT. NTFS could be a lot better, but it isn't too bad. All versions of FAT have doubled the cluster size everytime the partition size doubled. Perfectly normal. You can have a rather large filesystem before the clusters pass 4k though. Of course smaller clusters means more clusters, and the more clusters you have the more resources are required to maintain that filesystem. Larger clusters are more efficient to manage, but also waste more space of course. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 28 21:01:59 2008 From: sutherland_rob-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807281332y7ba10b78x9acf54d80c40a8b3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807281332y7ba10b78x9acf54d80c40a8b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <61804.30765.qm@web65603.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 7/28/08, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I'd expect it that it can be brought up on the first > interview, after > discussing your qualifications, etc. That's how it > worked for me, if I remember correctly. A good interviewer will bring this up during the portion of the interview when they describe the specific requirements. Good interviewers are rare, so I usually bring it up during the 'Any more questions' part if they haven't. About 60% of the time, they'll say something like 'What are you looking for' and I've found the best response is 'I would expect between x and y'. Do your homework and don't be shy to ask for the upper end of the range, if they start gasping, you can always say, "But, you know, I've always been an admirer of so I'd be willing to bend a bit for a chance to really kick . This is kind of a hot-button topic for bad interviewers - I've had a number of uhhh...emotional responses over the years and the response can be quite revealing about the company culture. Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 29 05:29:43 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 01:29:43 -0400 Subject: interested in Ottawa Linux Symposium In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080729012943.75fa2578@node1.freeyourmachine.org> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > Except to axe murderers. Just _axe_ murderers? -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Fry: Mmm, the gristle in a blanket isn't half bad. Bender: And try one of these popsicle sticks. They've absorbed quite a bit of flavor. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 29 13:10:35 2008 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: http://www.gtalug.org/wiki/Main_Page Message-ID: isn't working at the moment. "Firefox can't find the server at www.gtalug.org." dig seems to get into some kind of loop. sledz.heinous.org. and sauerkraut.heinous.org. don't seem to answer the query. Try: dig www.gtalug.org a +trace or dig @sauerkraut.heinous.org. www.gtalug.org. a -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 29 13:46:44 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:46:44 -0400 Subject: http://www.gtalug.org/wiki/Main_Page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488F1F44.5020203@alteeve.com> D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > isn't working at the moment. > "Firefox can't find the server at www.gtalug.org." > > dig seems to get into some kind of loop. sledz.heinous.org. and > sauerkraut.heinous.org. don't seem to answer the query. > > Try: > dig www.gtalug.org a +trace > or > dig @sauerkraut.heinous.org. www.gtalug.org. a It's a DNS transfer issue. It's stuck in limbo, and they know about it. They are trying to fix it. In the mean time, Drew is bringing it back up under http://tlug.ss.org. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 29 16:26:46 2008 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:26:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: <20080728122701.GA14701-8agRmHhQ+n2CxnSzwYWP7Q@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0@mail.gmail.com> <20080728122701.GA14701@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Neil Watson wrote: > This really frustrates me. You spend time preparing and going to > interviews only to find out afterward, sometimes after more than one > interview, that they are not willing to pay what you would like. Why I know some people are down on recruiters but I have always been very happy when I use recruiters. One advantage is that they typically have a good idea of the salary range and will filter out jobs that don't meet my expectations. If a recruiter sends me to an interview then the employer and I are already in the same ballpark when it comes to salary. > waste everyone's time wasted in the first place? I am almost certain > that employers often do not advertise or tell you what they are willing > to pay in hopes that you will low ball yourself thus saving them money. I agree it happens but I've known a lot of employers to be smarter than that. It is quite a short-sighted position as a low-balled employee will be very unhappy as soon as they realise what has happened and will typically correct the situation by leaving for another position[1]. Losing staff costs the employer money. So in my experience most employers will not do this if they are actually keen on retaining the employee. [1] It's much easier for the person to negotiate a reasonable salary with a new employer than it is to negotiate with a current employer for a massive jump in salary. Cheers, Rob -- "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 30 13:10:18 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:10:18 -0400 Subject: [Humour]: Parents: Talk to your kids about Linux... Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807300610t885046av2240ce66730b4b54@mail.gmail.com> An xkcd comic strip - "Parents: Talk to your kids about Linux... before somebody else does." Lol. http://xkcd.com/456/ -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 30 13:43:13 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:43:13 -0400 Subject: [Humour]: Parents: Talk to your kids about Linux... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0807300610t885046av2240ce66730b4b54-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0807300610t885046av2240ce66730b4b54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48906FF1.30102@alteeve.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > An xkcd comic strip - "Parents: Talk to your kids about Linux... > before somebody else does." Lol. > > http://xkcd.com/456/ > Yay for fellow XKCD fans! Saw that this morning, 'tis cute. Madi PS - Scott, you coming to TLUG this month? You must! (I may well make a fool of myself, which is always entertaining) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 30 14:17:13 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:17:13 -0400 Subject: [Humour]: Parents: Talk to your kids about Linux... In-Reply-To: <48906FF1.30102-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0807300610t885046av2240ce66730b4b54@mail.gmail.com> <48906FF1.30102@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807300717l773f52fgb6ad6c99c5b91de@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > PS - Scott, you coming to TLUG this month? You must! (I may well make a fool > of myself, which is always entertaining) Have to admit to being rather curious about what you're up to with DBUS. Lately I haven't actually made any of the events I'd intended to (can't tell if Murphy loves or hates me - lol) but I'll see what I can do. -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 30 16:49:05 2008 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:49:05 -0400 Subject: OT-DVD Message-ID: <48909B81.1000908@tmis.ca> Off topic, but I need a DVD player for my TV than can play .mp3 .avi, divx, Xvid etc. Any recommendations? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 30 17:28:21 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:28:21 -0400 Subject: OT-DVD In-Reply-To: <48909B81.1000908-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <48909B81.1000908@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807301028l486f10ai8817f31f840ad1f1@mail.gmail.com> Hmm. I believe that my semi-cheap RCA DVD player does those. I've had issues with a few poorly-encoded Xvid files, but generally it works well. I can check the model # when I get home, if you'd like? On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Teddy Mills wrote: > Off topic, but I need a DVD player for my TV than can play .mp3 .avi, divx, > Xvid etc. > Any recommendations? > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 30 17:53:26 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:53:26 -0400 Subject: OT-DVD In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807301028l486f10ai8817f31f840ad1f1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <48909B81.1000908@tmis.ca> <3a97ef0807301028l486f10ai8817f31f840ad1f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32f6a8880807301053p16a7d233q63816f7513d8c9a3@mail.gmail.com> I would not used the RCA (I have RCA with USB Interface) and its software is very SLOW!! I have bought a philips for a cheaper price with USB interface (for USB hard drives) the software is alot quicker. You can usually get one from best buy or futureshop for under 80 bucks. On 7/30/08, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hmm. I believe that my semi-cheap RCA DVD player does those. I've had > issues with a few poorly-encoded Xvid files, but generally it works > well. > I can check the model # when I get home, if you'd like? > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Teddy Mills wrote: > > Off topic, but I need a DVD player for my TV than can play .mp3 .avi, divx, > > Xvid etc. > > Any recommendations? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > > > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (647) 302-0942 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 30 18:32:37 2008 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:32:37 -0400 Subject: OT-DVD In-Reply-To: <48909B81.1000908-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <48909B81.1000908@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <4890B3C5.80608@golden.net> Teddy Mills wrote: > Off topic, but I need a DVD player for my TV than can play .mp3 .avi, > divx, Xvid etc. > Any recommendations? > I picked up a Phillips unit from Walmart model DVP3960 that does all that and has up-conversion. Approx $50.00. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 03:56:12 2008 From: davegermiquet-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dave Germiquet) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:56:12 -0400 Subject: OT-DVD In-Reply-To: <4890B3C5.80608-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <48909B81.1000908@tmis.ca> <4890B3C5.80608@golden.net> Message-ID: <32f6a8880807302056y57e43d3cg37160ef79cc4d658@mail.gmail.com> Hey an added note; You will want Ultra DIVX (it has more codecs available) Make sure you ask them for Ultra DIVX... xvid works on them usually. On 7/30/08, John Myshrall wrote: > Teddy Mills wrote: >> Off topic, but I need a DVD player for my TV than can play .mp3 .avi, >> divx, Xvid etc. >> Any recommendations? >> > I picked up a Phillips unit from Walmart model DVP3960 that does all > that and has up-conversion. Approx $50.00. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- The man who is always a newbie at something, Dave Germiquet Everytime I learn something new, I realize I know very little. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 04:34:14 2008 From: joehill-R6A+fiHC8nRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 00:34:14 -0400 Subject: OT-DVD In-Reply-To: <48909B81.1000908-5sHjOODPK7E@public.gmane.org> References: <48909B81.1000908@tmis.ca> Message-ID: <20080731003414.0c227744@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Teddy Mills wrote: > Off topic, but I need a DVD player for my TV than can play .mp3 .avi, > divx, Xvid etc. > Any recommendations? This will let you play any of those things without burning them to DVD first: http://www.jump.co.za/product/eureka-mpeg-4-player-with-remote-lx-351-5338115.htm -- JoeHill ++++++++++++++++++++ Bender: Yeah, well I'm gonna build my own lunar space lander! With blackjack aaaaannd Hookers! Actually, forget the space lander, and the blackjack. Ahhhh forget the whole thing! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 13:11:45 2008 From: jtc-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK at public.gmane.org (Jose) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:11:45 -0400 Subject: OT-DVD In-Reply-To: <20080731003414.0c227744-RM84zztHLDxPRJHzEJhQzbcIhZkZ0gYS2LY78lusg7I@public.gmane.org> References: <48909B81.1000908@tmis.ca> <20080731003414.0c227744@node1.freeyourmachine.org> Message-ID: <4891BA11.8040503@totaltravelmarketing.com> JoeHill wrote: > Teddy Mills wrote: > >> Off topic, but I need a DVD player for my TV than can play .mp3 .avi, >> divx, Xvid etc. >> Any recommendations? > > This will let you play any of those things without burning them to DVD first: > > http://www.jump.co.za/product/eureka-mpeg-4-player-with-remote-lx-351-5338115.htm > Nice piece of hardware Has anybodu tried any of those DVD / with TV recording capabilities, Yes I know there is Myth for that, but I only would like to record the occasional show. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 13:19:12 2008 From: teddy-5sHjOODPK7E at public.gmane.org (Teddy) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:19:12 -0400 Subject: OT-DVD In-Reply-To: <4891BA11.8040503-vS8X3Ji+8Wg6e3DpGhMbh2oLBQzVVOGK@public.gmane.org> References: <48909B81.1000908@tmis.ca> <20080731003414.0c227744@node1.freeyourmachine.org> <4891BA11.8040503@totaltravelmarketing.com> Message-ID: <4891BBD0.7080603@tmis.ca> I think I would be happy with a DVD player that 1) supports as many codecs as possible 2) firmware upgradeable (not sure how a consumer DVD player is upgraded) 3) supports Xvid 4) Has a USB2 port (to simply attach a hard drive) Jose wrote: > JoeHill wrote: >> Teddy Mills wrote: >>> Off topic, but I need a DVD player for my TV than can play .mp3 >>> .avi, divx, Xvid etc. >>> Any recommendations? >> >> This will let you play any of those things without burning them to >> DVD first: >> >> http://www.jump.co.za/product/eureka-mpeg-4-player-with-remote-lx-351-5338115.htm >> >> > > Nice piece of hardware > > Has anybodu tried any of those DVD / with TV recording capabilities, > Yes I know there is Myth for that, but I only would like to record the > occasional show. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 13:28:43 2008 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:28:43 -0400 Subject: [OT]: OWASP Conference (NYC) Announcement Message-ID: <99a6c38f0807310628v331f59ax8327a2bce8ac31fd@mail.gmail.com> Just a quick note that the Open Web Application Security Project (OWASP) is holding their annual US conference in NYC in a few weeks. Overall I've been pretty impressed with OWASP's online resources and the quality of information that comes in over some of their mailing lists. If you're into web development and interested in the related security issues this looks to be a pretty good conference. Here's the announcement: "Attend OWASP AppSec Conference, Sept 22nd-25th in New York City, the world's premier technical event for Application security experts. Featuring 6 hands-on training courses and 50 technical presentations with lots of new content, new tools and solutions. Network with 1,000 delegates from 50 nations. Visit product displays by 25 top sponsors in a relaxed setting. Final Agenda: http://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_NYC_AppSec_2008_Conference -- Scott Elcomb http://www.psema4.com/ http://www.google.com/reader/shared/14892828400785741937 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 13:54:37 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:54:37 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0@mail.gmail.com> <20080728122701.GA14701@watson-wilson.ca> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807310654o15eba530pd5d149d7bbadf90f@mail.gmail.com> Strange, my experiences with recruiters have been rather muddy. Mind you, initially I was applying from BC (and a few recruiters would just drop me like a hot rock even if I was qualified), but I ran into many who had very little understanding of the position or requirements. I've actually had to explain to recruiters why I *wasn't* qualified for a given job that they were pushing me for... and things such as explaining why my understanding of JavaScript wasn't going to much help me in a Java job. I've also had most recruiters say to *never* ask about compensation (pay, holidays, bonuses) etc during the initial interview... but it seems to me that since those topics are pretty much a deal-breaker for most people, not mentioning them could just end up wasting both my and the interviewer's time. That being said, I've run into a few knowlegable recruiting companies every so often too. I usually try to let them know how much I appreciate talking to somebody who understands the position they're hiring for, and mention that to the employer as well if I happen to interview with them. There must be an awful lot of companies wasting good money on bad recruiters around there though, IMHO. As for the question of salary. I'd definitely agree that candidates should not lowball themselves. I know a *lot* of people who get less pay than they are worth (and are very unhappy about it), not because the company couldn't afford to pay them more, but simply because they weren't willing to "sell" themselves to the employer and ask for what they were worth. On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Neil Watson wrote: > >> This really frustrates me. You spend time preparing and going to >> interviews only to find out afterward, sometimes after more than one >> interview, that they are not willing to pay what you would like. Why > > I know some people are down on recruiters but I have always been very happy > when I use recruiters. One advantage is that they typically have a good > idea of the salary range and will filter out jobs that don't meet my > expectations. If a recruiter sends me to an interview then the employer and > I are already in the same ballpark when it comes to salary. > >> waste everyone's time wasted in the first place? I am almost certain >> that employers often do not advertise or tell you what they are willing >> to pay in hopes that you will low ball yourself thus saving them money. > > I agree it happens but I've known a lot of employers to be smarter than > that. It is quite a short-sighted position as a low-balled employee will be > very unhappy as soon as they realise what has happened and will typically > correct the situation by leaving for another position[1]. Losing staff costs > the employer money. So in my experience most employers will not do this if > they are actually keen on retaining the employee. > > [1] It's much easier for the person to negotiate a reasonable salary with a > new employer than it is to negotiate with a current employer for a massive > jump in salary. > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." > -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 14:08:44 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:08:44 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops Message-ID: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> Hey all, I've been laptop shopping recently and was wondering if anyone had good/bad experiences to share with whatever's available in the area. My current laptop is getting a bit long in the tooth, and seems to be running a bit hot these days (despite the fans being nicely clear of obstruction), as well as a bit slower for modern apps. I'm mainly looking at HP and possibly Asus laptops. Anyone recently buy a laptop and have any happy/horror stories to share? Preferred specs are: * 14-15.4" LCD (17" seems a bit bulky/heavy, but bigger might be OK if light enough) * Good graphics card (NVidia or ATI, seems that ATI's drivers for 'nix are a lot better after the AMD buyout) * 2GB+ of RAM * 64-bit Dual-Core CPU, maybe around the 2Ghz+ range per core? I believe the Core2Duo's are supposed to perform better, but I do still have a soft-spot for AMD... * Decent soundcard+speakers. Harmon Kardon? * 802.11N if possible, native linux drivers a definite plus (Intel IPW or otherwise? preferably *not* Broadcomm, current experiences even with the native driver /w firmware seem to suck compared to windows) * Cardreader that works in 'nix * Bluetooth that works in 'nix (never had any problems getting BT working on 'nix though, even the cheap ones) * An integrated camera that has linux drivers would be nice * 3-4+ USB ports * DVD-RW (lightscribe would be nice) * PCMCIA slot (nice, but seems to be less needed with most things USB these days) * TV-in (linux compatible) would be a great, if unlikely, feature... * Firewire would be nice, if linux-compatible So far I've seen a lot of nice-looking HP's at the big-box stores (Best-Buy, Future Shop) and some decent-seeming Asus's at places like Filtech, etc. Suggestions? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 14:16:10 2008 From: rpjday-L09J2beyid0N/H6P543EQg at public.gmane.org (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hey all, > > > I've been laptop shopping recently and was wondering if anyone had > good/bad experiences to share with whatever's available in the area. > My current laptop is getting a bit long in the tooth, and seems to > be running a bit hot these days (despite the fans being nicely clear > of obstruction), as well as a bit slower for modern apps. > > I'm mainly looking at HP and possibly Asus laptops. Anyone recently > buy a laptop and have any happy/horror stories to share? i've purchased a number of laptops from tigerdirect.ca, and never had a problem. in fact, at the moment, they are advertising: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=3701106&Sku=T71-15021&cm_re=Homepage-_-Spot%2001-_-Laptops_T71-15021 it's a starting point. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA ======================================================================== -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From thomson.dan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 14:19:48 2008 From: thomson.dan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dan Thomson) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:19:48 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807310654o15eba530pd5d149d7bbadf90f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0@mail.gmail.com> <20080728122701.GA14701@watson-wilson.ca> <3a97ef0807310654o15eba530pd5d149d7bbadf90f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Maybe it's BC then. I've talked to a bunch of recruiters in Vancouver (somewhat casually, I guess) and none of them seemed to grasp exactly where my skills/interests lay. I've also gotten contacted a LOT for positions I'm either really over or under qualified for. Now I find that NOT jumping through hoops or abiding by these "job search rules" (such as not mentioning compensation during the interview) works best. I think that frank, direct honesty with potential employers is probably going to help you most in the long run. I haven't met a recruiter that agrees with me though :) 2008/7/31 Tyler Aviss : > Strange, my experiences with recruiters have been rather muddy. Mind > you, initially I was applying from BC (and a few recruiters would just > drop me like a hot rock even if I was qualified), but I ran into many > who had very little understanding of the position or requirements. > I've actually had to explain to recruiters why I *wasn't* qualified > for a given job that they were pushing me for... and things such as > explaining why my understanding of JavaScript wasn't going to much > help me in a Java job. > > I've also had most recruiters say to *never* ask about compensation > (pay, holidays, bonuses) etc during the initial interview... but it > seems to me that since those topics are pretty much a deal-breaker for > most people, not mentioning them could just end up wasting both my and > the interviewer's time. > > > That being said, I've run into a few knowlegable recruiting companies > every so often too. I usually try to let them know how much I > appreciate talking to somebody who understands the position they're > hiring for, and mention that to the employer as well if I happen to > interview with them. There must be an awful lot of companies wasting > good money on bad recruiters around there though, IMHO. > > > As for the question of salary. I'd definitely agree that candidates > should not lowball themselves. I know a *lot* of people who get less > pay than they are worth (and are very unhappy about it), not because > the company couldn't afford to pay them more, but simply because they > weren't willing to "sell" themselves to the employer and ask for what > they were worth. > > > > On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Robert Brockway > wrote: >> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Neil Watson wrote: >> >>> This really frustrates me. You spend time preparing and going to >>> interviews only to find out afterward, sometimes after more than one >>> interview, that they are not willing to pay what you would like. Why >> >> I know some people are down on recruiters but I have always been very happy >> when I use recruiters. One advantage is that they typically have a good >> idea of the salary range and will filter out jobs that don't meet my >> expectations. If a recruiter sends me to an interview then the employer and >> I are already in the same ballpark when it comes to salary. >> >>> waste everyone's time wasted in the first place? I am almost certain >>> that employers often do not advertise or tell you what they are willing >>> to pay in hopes that you will low ball yourself thus saving them money. >> >> I agree it happens but I've known a lot of employers to be smarter than >> that. It is quite a short-sighted position as a low-balled employee will be >> very unhappy as soon as they realise what has happened and will typically >> correct the situation by leaving for another position[1]. Losing staff costs >> the employer money. So in my experience most employers will not do this if >> they are actually keen on retaining the employee. >> >> [1] It's much easier for the person to negotiate a reasonable salary with a >> new employer than it is to negotiate with a current employer for a massive >> jump in salary. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Rob >> >> -- >> "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." >> -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Tyler Aviss > Systems Support > LPIC/LPIC-2 > (647) 302-0942 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Dan Thomson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 14:46:10 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:46:10 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4891D032.6000104@utoronto.ca> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Hey all, > > > I've been laptop shopping recently and was wondering if anyone had > good/bad experiences to share with whatever's available in the area. > My current laptop is getting a bit long in the tooth, and seems to be > running a bit hot these days (despite the fans being nicely clear of > obstruction), as well as a bit slower for modern apps. > > I'm mainly looking at HP and possibly Asus laptops. Anyone recently > buy a laptop and have any happy/horror stories to share? > > Preferred specs are: > * 14-15.4" LCD (17" seems a bit bulky/heavy, but bigger might be OK if > light enough) > * Good graphics card (NVidia or ATI, seems that ATI's drivers for 'nix > are a lot better after the AMD buyout) > * 2GB+ of RAM > * 64-bit Dual-Core CPU, maybe around the 2Ghz+ range per core? I > believe the Core2Duo's are supposed to perform better, but I do still > have a soft-spot for AMD... > * Decent soundcard+speakers. Harmon Kardon? > * 802.11N if possible, native linux drivers a definite plus (Intel IPW > or otherwise? preferably *not* Broadcomm, current experiences even > with the native driver /w firmware seem to suck compared to windows) > * Cardreader that works in 'nix > * Bluetooth that works in 'nix (never had any problems getting BT > working on 'nix though, even the cheap ones) > * An integrated camera that has linux drivers would be nice > * 3-4+ USB ports > * DVD-RW (lightscribe would be nice) > * PCMCIA slot (nice, but seems to be less needed with most things USB > these days) > * TV-in (linux compatible) would be a great, if unlikely, feature... > * Firewire would be nice, if linux-compatible > > So far I've seen a lot of nice-looking HP's at the big-box stores > (Best-Buy, Future Shop) and some decent-seeming Asus's at places like > Filtech, etc. Considered a Thinkpad? T61 you can get a 14.1" Nvidia driven unit (4:3 or widescreen) with all of the above (sans lightscribe) for around $1280. Just a thought. More than the equivalent HP by a hundred or more I'm guessing? If you're up for a fight you can get them to drop $75 off the price by patiently explaining that you don't agree with the Vista EULA though :) Jamon -- a very happy T61 user -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 15:24:55 2008 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:24:55 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4891D947.4000301@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > I've been laptop shopping recently and was wondering if anyone had > good/bad experiences to share with whatever's available in the area. > ... > > Suggestions? > The trick is avoiding the Microsoft tax. MSI sells laptops without an OS and they seem to be directed to the Linux market. I have great confidence in these guys: http://www.cnpcanada.com/ Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 15:43:01 2008 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:43:01 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <4891D032.6000104-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> <4891D032.6000104@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4891DD85.9090006@alteeve.com> Jamon Camisso wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> Hey all, >> >> >> I've been laptop shopping recently and was wondering if anyone had >> good/bad experiences to share with whatever's available in the area. >> My current laptop is getting a bit long in the tooth, and seems to be >> running a bit hot these days (despite the fans being nicely clear of >> obstruction), as well as a bit slower for modern apps. >> >> I'm mainly looking at HP and possibly Asus laptops. Anyone recently >> buy a laptop and have any happy/horror stories to share? >> >> Preferred specs are: >> * 14-15.4" LCD (17" seems a bit bulky/heavy, but bigger might be OK if >> light enough) >> * Good graphics card (NVidia or ATI, seems that ATI's drivers for 'nix >> are a lot better after the AMD buyout) >> * 2GB+ of RAM >> * 64-bit Dual-Core CPU, maybe around the 2Ghz+ range per core? I >> believe the Core2Duo's are supposed to perform better, but I do still >> have a soft-spot for AMD... >> * Decent soundcard+speakers. Harmon Kardon? >> * 802.11N if possible, native linux drivers a definite plus (Intel IPW >> or otherwise? preferably *not* Broadcomm, current experiences even >> with the native driver /w firmware seem to suck compared to windows) >> * Cardreader that works in 'nix >> * Bluetooth that works in 'nix (never had any problems getting BT >> working on 'nix though, even the cheap ones) >> * An integrated camera that has linux drivers would be nice >> * 3-4+ USB ports >> * DVD-RW (lightscribe would be nice) >> * PCMCIA slot (nice, but seems to be less needed with most things USB >> these days) >> * TV-in (linux compatible) would be a great, if unlikely, feature... >> * Firewire would be nice, if linux-compatible >> >> So far I've seen a lot of nice-looking HP's at the big-box stores >> (Best-Buy, Future Shop) and some decent-seeming Asus's at places like >> Filtech, etc. > > Considered a Thinkpad? T61 you can get a 14.1" Nvidia driven unit (4:3 > or widescreen) with all of the above (sans lightscribe) for around > $1280. Just a thought. More than the equivalent HP by a hundred or more > I'm guessing? > > If you're up for a fight you can get them to drop $75 off the price by > patiently explaining that you don't agree with the Vista EULA though :) > > Jamon -- a very happy T61 user I've used Thinkpads for ten years and change now (first was a 486!) and every one of them ran Linux with minimal fuss. My current one is a T40, and one of my main client's is a T43p which also worked with minimal fuss. I was worried about Lenovo taking them over and I expected to see a drastic drop in quality to meet price demands, but so far it's not seemed so bad. So ya, vote #2 for a Thinkpad. They're worth the extra money. Madi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 15:42:59 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:42:59 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080731154259.GA9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:08:44AM -0400, Tyler Aviss wrote: > I've been laptop shopping recently and was wondering if anyone had > good/bad experiences to share with whatever's available in the area. > My current laptop is getting a bit long in the tooth, and seems to be > running a bit hot these days (despite the fans being nicely clear of > obstruction), as well as a bit slower for modern apps. > > I'm mainly looking at HP and possibly Asus laptops. Anyone recently > buy a laptop and have any happy/horror stories to share? > > Preferred specs are: > * 14-15.4" LCD (17" seems a bit bulky/heavy, but bigger might be OK if > light enough) No 17" is going to be light. :) > * Good graphics card (NVidia or ATI, seems that ATI's drivers for 'nix > are a lot better after the AMD buyout) Not yet they aren't. > * 2GB+ of RAM No problem. > * 64-bit Dual-Core CPU, maybe around the 2Ghz+ range per core? I > believe the Core2Duo's are supposed to perform better, but I do still > have a soft-spot for AMD... I like AMD too, but I like getting the best too, and so far intel cpu with intel wireless is the way to go. Open source fanatics should go for intel video as well. > * Decent soundcard+speakers. Harmon Kardon? Only laptop I have ever used with good speakers have JBL speakers in it. They were amazing. Too bad the rest of the laptop was so unreliable (it was a compaq/HP). > * 802.11N if possible, native linux drivers a definite plus (Intel IPW > or otherwise? preferably *not* Broadcomm, current experiences even > with the native driver /w firmware seem to suck compared to windows) Well someone here at work has a thinkpad with an intel 4965 wireless chip and it works perfectly with linux and does 802.11n (although I have never seen if that works or not). I think it is a t61p or something like that. Nvidia graphics in that one, works no problem, although anything with an intel video chip generally works quite well too (although 3D would be much slower, but you do get open source drivers). > * Cardreader that works in 'nix Some have it, some don't. Some work, som't don't. > * Bluetooth that works in 'nix (never had any problems getting BT > working on 'nix though, even the cheap ones) Seems to always work if present. > * An integrated camera that has linux drivers would be nice Highly unlikely to happen. > * 3-4+ USB ports 3 is often avaialble. Never seen 4 on a laptop. > * DVD-RW (lightscribe would be nice) > * PCMCIA slot (nice, but seems to be less needed with most things USB > these days) Well the thinkpad has PCMCIA and PCIexpressslot. > * TV-in (linux compatible) would be a great, if unlikely, feature... Not going to happen. > * Firewire would be nice, if linux-compatible All firewire controllers are UHCI compliant and work (except some old TI part). > So far I've seen a lot of nice-looking HP's at the big-box stores > (Best-Buy, Future Shop) and some decent-seeming Asus's at places like > Filtech, etc. Well having owned one HP made laptop I can say I will never buy another one. Happy with asus so far, and thinkpads are pretty much always good. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 15:44:31 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:44:31 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <4891D032.6000104-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> <4891D032.6000104@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20080731154431.GB9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:46:10AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > Considered a Thinkpad? T61 you can get a 14.1" Nvidia driven unit (4:3 > or widescreen) with all of the above (sans lightscribe) for around > $1280. Just a thought. More than the equivalent HP by a hundred or more > I'm guessing? Well if you want equivalant quality and linux support, then HP has nothing that matches. > If you're up for a fight you can get them to drop $75 off the price by > patiently explaining that you don't agree with the Vista EULA though :) Hehe. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 15:45:22 2008 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:45:22 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <4891DD85.9090006-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> <4891D032.6000104@utoronto.ca> <4891DD85.9090006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20080731154522.GC9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:43:01AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I've used Thinkpads for ten years and change now (first was a 486!) and > every one of them ran Linux with minimal fuss. My current one is a T40, > and one of my main client's is a T43p which also worked with minimal fuss. > > I was worried about Lenovo taking them over and I expected to see a > drastic drop in quality to meet price demands, but so far it's not > seemed so bad. So ya, vote #2 for a Thinkpad. They're worth the extra money. The only thinkpad that ever gave trouble for linux with me, was one with an ATI video chip. That think was imposible to get to work right. -- Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 16:36:56 2008 From: jmiles242-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (John Miles) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:36:56 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <20080731154522.GC9391-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> <4891D032.6000104@utoronto.ca> <4891DD85.9090006@alteeve.com> <20080731154522.GC9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I have been using Linux on my Thinkpads at work for years (no choice, given an at IBM); a T22, then an X40, and now a T60p. They are all pretty good. Mine have had an internal Atheros based wireless NIC in them though - except the T22 which had a Cisco350 PCMCIA card. I use it almost exclusively for work, so I can't provide any information on using it for fun things. You've probably already checked, it but just in case http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki has a pretty good summary on each model's hardware, and the link to the ones with Linux already installed: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/webca/LenovoPortal/en_CA/special-offers.workflow:ShowPromo?LandingPage=/All/US/Landing_pages/Info/08/Linux I have a "family and friends" discount on new and refurbished, that can be used if that helps at all. John Miles. On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Lennart Sorensen < lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:43:01AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > > I've used Thinkpads for ten years and change now (first was a 486!) and > > every one of them ran Linux with minimal fuss. My current one is a T40, > > and one of my main client's is a T43p which also worked with minimal > fuss. > > > > I was worried about Lenovo taking them over and I expected to see a > > drastic drop in quality to meet price demands, but so far it's not > > seemed so bad. So ya, vote #2 for a Thinkpad. They're worth the extra > money. > > The only thinkpad that ever gave trouble for linux with me, was one with > an ATI video chip. That think was imposible to get to work right. > > -- > Len Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 17:31:30 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:31:30 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807310654o15eba530pd5d149d7bbadf90f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0@mail.gmail.com> <20080728122701.GA14701@watson-wilson.ca> <3a97ef0807310654o15eba530pd5d149d7bbadf90f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4891F6F2.8090602@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Strange, my experiences with recruiters have been rather muddy. Mind > you, initially I was applying from BC (and a few recruiters would just > drop me like a hot rock even if I was qualified), but I ran into many > who had very little understanding of the position or requirements. > I've actually had to explain to recruiters why I *wasn't* qualified > for a given job that they were pushing me for... and things such as > explaining why my understanding of JavaScript wasn't going to much > help me in a Java job. > > I've also had most recruiters say to *never* ask about compensation > (pay, holidays, bonuses) etc during the initial interview... but it > seems to me that since those topics are pretty much a deal-breaker for > most people, not mentioning them could just end up wasting both my and > the interviewer's time. > > > That being said, I've run into a few knowlegable recruiting companies > every so often too. I usually try to let them know how much I > appreciate talking to somebody who understands the position they're > hiring for, and mention that to the employer as well if I happen to > interview with them. There must be an awful lot of companies wasting > good money on bad recruiters around there though, IMHO. What's really fun are recruiters who are looking for an exact match, rather than equivalent experience. Many years ago, they wanted someone with, among other things, experience with Norton Ghost. I had Drive Image experience, but the wasn't good enough, even though the skills were virtually identical. In a later position, I was working with Ghost and had absolutely no problems and very little learning curve with it. On another occasion, I got a call from a recruiter, looking for someone with experience with a certain package. I had never even heard of that package, but it had the same name as a company I had worked for. It was obvious that the recruiter hadn't even bothered to read my resume and he was calling me simply because of a word search match! -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 17:37:40 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:37:40 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0@mail.gmail.com> <20080728122701.GA14701@watson-wilson.ca> <3a97ef0807310654o15eba530pd5d149d7bbadf90f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807311037o7509b6c2hd9f30023900174c4@mail.gmail.com> Nah, all the recruiters were here. Initially I was living in and applying from BC, so it was hard to get any strong interest from local recruiters even though I indicated a willingness to travel for interviews. Back in BC I can't remember ever dealing with a recruiter, all my jobs came from good references of former employers/co-workers/associates. On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Dan Thomson wrote: > Maybe it's BC then. I've talked to a bunch of recruiters in Vancouver > (somewhat casually, I guess) and none of them seemed to grasp exactly > where my skills/interests lay. I've also gotten contacted a LOT for > positions I'm either really over or under qualified for. > > Now I find that NOT jumping through hoops or abiding by these "job > search rules" (such as not mentioning compensation during the > interview) works best. I think that frank, direct honesty with > potential employers is probably going to help you most in the long > run. I haven't met a recruiter that agrees with me though :) > > 2008/7/31 Tyler Aviss : >> Strange, my experiences with recruiters have been rather muddy. Mind >> you, initially I was applying from BC (and a few recruiters would just >> drop me like a hot rock even if I was qualified), but I ran into many >> who had very little understanding of the position or requirements. >> I've actually had to explain to recruiters why I *wasn't* qualified >> for a given job that they were pushing me for... and things such as >> explaining why my understanding of JavaScript wasn't going to much >> help me in a Java job. >> >> I've also had most recruiters say to *never* ask about compensation >> (pay, holidays, bonuses) etc during the initial interview... but it >> seems to me that since those topics are pretty much a deal-breaker for >> most people, not mentioning them could just end up wasting both my and >> the interviewer's time. >> >> >> That being said, I've run into a few knowlegable recruiting companies >> every so often too. I usually try to let them know how much I >> appreciate talking to somebody who understands the position they're >> hiring for, and mention that to the employer as well if I happen to >> interview with them. There must be an awful lot of companies wasting >> good money on bad recruiters around there though, IMHO. >> >> >> As for the question of salary. I'd definitely agree that candidates >> should not lowball themselves. I know a *lot* of people who get less >> pay than they are worth (and are very unhappy about it), not because >> the company couldn't afford to pay them more, but simply because they >> weren't willing to "sell" themselves to the employer and ask for what >> they were worth. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Robert Brockway >> wrote: >>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Neil Watson wrote: >>> >>>> This really frustrates me. You spend time preparing and going to >>>> interviews only to find out afterward, sometimes after more than one >>>> interview, that they are not willing to pay what you would like. Why >>> >>> I know some people are down on recruiters but I have always been very happy >>> when I use recruiters. One advantage is that they typically have a good >>> idea of the salary range and will filter out jobs that don't meet my >>> expectations. If a recruiter sends me to an interview then the employer and >>> I are already in the same ballpark when it comes to salary. >>> >>>> waste everyone's time wasted in the first place? I am almost certain >>>> that employers often do not advertise or tell you what they are willing >>>> to pay in hopes that you will low ball yourself thus saving them money. >>> >>> I agree it happens but I've known a lot of employers to be smarter than >>> that. It is quite a short-sighted position as a low-balled employee will be >>> very unhappy as soon as they realise what has happened and will typically >>> correct the situation by leaving for another position[1]. Losing staff costs >>> the employer money. So in my experience most employers will not do this if >>> they are actually keen on retaining the employee. >>> >>> [1] It's much easier for the person to negotiate a reasonable salary with a >>> new employer than it is to negotiate with a current employer for a massive >>> jump in salary. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Rob >>> >>> -- >>> "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine..." >>> -- RFC 1925 "The Twelve Networking Truths" >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tyler Aviss >> Systems Support >> LPIC/LPIC-2 >> (647) 302-0942 >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists >> > > > > -- > Dan Thomson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 17:45:53 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:45:53 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: <4891F6F2.8090602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0@mail.gmail.com> <20080728122701.GA14701@watson-wilson.ca> <3a97ef0807310654o15eba530pd5d149d7bbadf90f@mail.gmail.com> <4891F6F2.8090602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807311045x193bb3dcmdcb16fc591581def@mail.gmail.com> Even worse than that are those that want exact numbers. 5 Years of X 8 Years of Y In most arenas, there should be a minimal amount of experience in using a given system/language, but if somebody's been working working with X for 1.5-3 years straight I'd say he's probably a pretty strong candidate, and there could be a big difference between a candidate "1 year working daily with X" versus one with "3 years using X here and there", as the first might seem weaker on paper, but is actually likely a better choice. The greatest ones though, are requirements that want you to have impossible experience or skill levels. I remember seeing a bunch of job ads that specifically asked for 3-4 years of .NET experience when .NET had only been around for about 1-2 years (and discounted previous experience in the actual languages such as VB, VC++, etc). Of course the flip-side to this is when somebody claims more experience than is possible as well, though there are some fringe cases (those that were part of the public Beta before software was actually released, etc). On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 1:31 PM, James Knott wrote: > Tyler Aviss wrote: >> >> Strange, my experiences with recruiters have been rather muddy. Mind >> you, initially I was applying from BC (and a few recruiters would just >> drop me like a hot rock even if I was qualified), but I ran into many >> who had very little understanding of the position or requirements. >> I've actually had to explain to recruiters why I *wasn't* qualified >> for a given job that they were pushing me for... and things such as >> explaining why my understanding of JavaScript wasn't going to much >> help me in a Java job. >> >> I've also had most recruiters say to *never* ask about compensation >> (pay, holidays, bonuses) etc during the initial interview... but it >> seems to me that since those topics are pretty much a deal-breaker for >> most people, not mentioning them could just end up wasting both my and >> the interviewer's time. >> >> >> That being said, I've run into a few knowlegable recruiting companies >> every so often too. I usually try to let them know how much I >> appreciate talking to somebody who understands the position they're >> hiring for, and mention that to the employer as well if I happen to >> interview with them. There must be an awful lot of companies wasting >> good money on bad recruiters around there though, IMHO. > > What's really fun are recruiters who are looking for an exact match, rather > than equivalent experience. Many years ago, they wanted someone with, among > other things, experience with Norton Ghost. I had Drive Image experience, > but the wasn't good enough, even though the skills were virtually identical. > In a later position, I was working with Ghost and had absolutely no > problems and very little learning curve with it. On another occasion, I got > a call from a recruiter, looking for someone with experience with a certain > package. I had never even heard of that package, but it had the same name > as a company I had worked for. It was obvious that the recruiter hadn't > even bothered to read my resume and he was calling me simply because of a > word search match! > > > > -- > Use OpenOffice.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 17:51:21 2008 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:51:21 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <20080731154522.GC9391-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> <4891D032.6000104@utoronto.ca> <4891DD85.9090006@alteeve.com> <20080731154522.GC9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4891FB99.9010509@dinamis.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:43:01AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> I've used Thinkpads for ten years and change now (first was a 486!) and >> every one of them ran Linux with minimal fuss. My current one is a T40, >> and one of my main client's is a T43p which also worked with minimal fuss. >> >> I was worried about Lenovo taking them over and I expected to see a >> drastic drop in quality to meet price demands, but so far it's not >> seemed so bad. So ya, vote #2 for a Thinkpad. They're worth the extra money. > > The only thinkpad that ever gave trouble for linux with me, was one with > an ATI video chip. That think was imposible to get to work right. My ThinkPad A21p ran Linux fine for years. The ATI Rage 128 supported with no fuss whatsoever. I was running Linux on a ThinkPad T30 until a few days ago (sold the machine) and everything but restoration of sound after waking up from hibernation worked. I might have gotten that to work as well, if I cared enough. I swear by ThinkPads. They're reliable. Great keyboards. The shift to Lenovo is a non-event because they were always made by Lenovo even when they had the IBM logo on them. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 17:53:43 2008 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:53:43 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <20080731154259.GA9391-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> <20080731154259.GA9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4891FC27.6050102@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> * An integrated camera that has linux drivers would be nice >> > > Highly unlikely to happen. Actually, according to this article that I saw in Groklaw's News Picks, it has happened. http://linux-foundation.org/weblogs/lwf/2008/07/29/the-2627-merge-window-closes/ John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 17:57:38 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:57:38 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807311037o7509b6c2hd9f30023900174c4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0@mail.gmail.com> <20080728122701.GA14701@watson-wilson.ca> <3a97ef0807310654o15eba530pd5d149d7bbadf90f@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0807311037o7509b6c2hd9f30023900174c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4891FD12.5010000@rogers.com> Tyler Aviss wrote: > Nah, all the recruiters were here. Initially I was living in and > applying from BC, so it was hard to get any strong interest from local > recruiters even though I indicated a willingness to travel for > interviews. Back in BC I can't remember ever dealing with a recruiter, > all my jobs came from good references of former > employers/co-workers/associates. My current position, in telecom, came via Workopolis. About 2 weeks after the last time I left IBM, I saw my employer's ad there. I sent in my resume and they called me within 20 minutes! I then went in for an interview at the first time they had available and was then flown to Montreal for 3 more interviews and here I am, still with them, two years later. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 18:04:48 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:04:48 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <4891FC27.6050102-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> <20080731154259.GA9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4891FC27.6050102@rogers.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807311104h22a3df91qbfe63c9c2b7a9aaf@mail.gmail.com> The gscpa drivers have been around out-of-kernel for awhile. I have two or three webcams that work quite well with that one. It's nice to hear that it's finally being included in the mainline kernel though, it means I don't have to go digging up the bugfixes ever new release. On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 1:53 PM, John McGregor wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >>> >>> * An integrated camera that has linux drivers would be nice >>> >> >> Highly unlikely to happen. > > Actually, according to this article that I saw in Groklaw's News Picks, it > has happened. > > > http://linux-foundation.org/weblogs/lwf/2008/07/29/the-2627-merge-window-closes/ > > > John > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 18:09:00 2008 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:09:00 -0400 Subject: Linux-friendly laptops In-Reply-To: <4891FB99.9010509-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807310708jc14fe72g513e2ab47458dbd4@mail.gmail.com> <4891D032.6000104@utoronto.ca> <4891DD85.9090006@alteeve.com> <20080731154522.GC9391@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4891FB99.9010509@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <4891FFBC.7090102@rogers.com> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:43:01AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> I've used Thinkpads for ten years and change now (first was a 486!) >>> and every one of them ran Linux with minimal fuss. My current one is >>> a T40, and one of my main client's is a T43p which also worked with >>> minimal fuss. >>> >>> I was worried about Lenovo taking them over and I expected to see a >>> drastic drop in quality to meet price demands, but so far it's not >>> seemed so bad. So ya, vote #2 for a Thinkpad. They're worth the extra >>> money. >> >> The only thinkpad that ever gave trouble for linux with me, was one with >> an ATI video chip. That think was imposible to get to work right. > > My ThinkPad A21p ran Linux fine for years. The ATI Rage 128 supported > with no fuss whatsoever. I was running Linux on a ThinkPad T30 until a > few days ago (sold the machine) and everything but restoration of sound > after waking up from hibernation worked. I might have gotten that to > work as well, if I cared enough. I swear by ThinkPads. They're reliable. > Great keyboards. The shift to Lenovo is a non-event because they were > always made by Lenovo even when they had the IBM logo on them. I've had a ThinkPad R31 for about 6 years. It works well with Linux. BTW, my ThinkPad was made in the Philippines, so I don't know if it was made by Lenovo. Also, when made for IBM, they had to meet IBMs specs, whereas they may not have to now. -- Use OpenOffice.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 18:37:46 2008 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:37:46 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: <3a97ef0807311045x193bb3dcmdcb16fc591581def-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0@mail.gmail.com> <20080728122701.GA14701@watson-wilson.ca> <3a97ef0807310654o15eba530pd5d149d7bbadf90f@mail.gmail.com> <4891F6F2.8090602@rogers.com> <3a97ef0807311045x193bb3dcmdcb16fc591581def@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: > The greatest ones though, are requirements that want you to have > impossible experience or skill levels. I remember seeing a bunch of > job ads that specifically asked for 3-4 years of .NET experience when > .NET had only been around for about 1-2 years (and discounted previous > experience in the actual languages such as VB, VC++, etc). Of course > the flip-side to this is when somebody claims more experience than is > possible as well, though there are some fringe cases (those that were > part of the public Beta before software was actually released, etc). My favorite one was back in 1989, seeing solicitations for programmers with 2 years experience with NeXTstep. This was only shortly after announcement of the release of the first cubes. The platform hadn't been available for 6 months; how could someone have 2 years experience with it? And it had a very well known (at the time) set of publicity surrounding its release; it would take a very particular sort fo ignorance to simultaneously: a) Be aware of it in the first place, but b) Not be aware that it had only existed a few months. -- http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 18:54:35 2008 From: tjaviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Tyler Aviss) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:54:35 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0@mail.gmail.com> <20080728122701.GA14701@watson-wilson.ca> <3a97ef0807310654o15eba530pd5d149d7bbadf90f@mail.gmail.com> <4891F6F2.8090602@rogers.com> <3a97ef0807311045x193bb3dcmdcb16fc591581def@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a97ef0807311154l424853e0r267366d95fd18467@mail.gmail.com> Any employee with 2 years experience then would be completely invaluable? Why? Well, anyone who can develop a time machine to get the needed experience would obviously be a kickass programmer :-) On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> The greatest ones though, are requirements that want you to have >> impossible experience or skill levels. I remember seeing a bunch of >> job ads that specifically asked for 3-4 years of .NET experience when >> .NET had only been around for about 1-2 years (and discounted previous >> experience in the actual languages such as VB, VC++, etc). Of course >> the flip-side to this is when somebody claims more experience than is >> possible as well, though there are some fringe cases (those that were >> part of the public Beta before software was actually released, etc). > > My favorite one was back in 1989, seeing solicitations for programmers > with 2 years experience with NeXTstep. This was only shortly after > announcement of the release of the first cubes. The platform hadn't > been available for 6 months; how could someone have 2 years experience > with it? And it had a very well known (at the time) set of publicity > surrounding its release; it would take a very particular sort fo > ignorance to simultaneously: > a) Be aware of it in the first place, but > b) Not be aware that it had only existed a few months. > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and > expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert > Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists > -- Tyler Aviss Systems Support LPIC/LPIC-2 (647) 302-0942 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 19:15:14 2008 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: LinkSys WRTSL54GS router, DD-WRT Linux - contract Message-ID: I have a client who needs help pushing a LinkSys WRTSL54GS router (running DD-WRT Linux) to the limit. He wants to run a web server (with WebDAV), FTP server, VPN, etc. open to the 'net, and Web server, SMB server, etc. private to his home network. If anyone is familiar with this distro and router (or similar) and is interested in a small contract, please contact me off-list. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ======== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 31 19:20:15 2008 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:20:15 -0400 Subject: Anyone job-seeking for a sysadmin position? In-Reply-To: References: <3a97ef0807251335u7f3f9643vfb8ec0c02bcde1c8@mail.gmail.com> <3a97ef0807271356y2b9a816fmd4d4a1c9830acbb0@mail.gmail.com> <20080728122701.GA14701@watson-wilson.ca> <3a97ef0807310654o15eba530pd5d149d7bbadf90f@mail.gmail.com> <4891F6F2.8090602@rogers.com> <3a97ef0807311045x193bb3dcmdcb16fc591581def@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4892106F.7010307@utoronto.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Tyler Aviss wrote: >> The greatest ones though, are requirements that want you to have >> impossible experience or skill levels. I remember seeing a bunch of >> job ads that specifically asked for 3-4 years of .NET experience when >> .NET had only been around for about 1-2 years (and discounted previous >> experience in the actual languages such as VB, VC++, etc). Of course >> the flip-side to this is when somebody claims more experience than is >> possible as well, though there are some fringe cases (those that were >> part of the public Beta before software was actually released, etc). > > My favorite one was back in 1989, seeing solicitations for programmers > with 2 years experience with NeXTstep. This was only shortly after > announcement of the release of the first cubes. The platform hadn't > been available for 6 months; how could someone have 2 years experience > with it? And it had a very well known (at the time) set of publicity > surrounding its release; it would take a very particular sort fo > ignorance to simultaneously: > a) Be aware of it in the first place, but > b) Not be aware that it had only existed a few months. That or be recruiting (albeit badly) developers who had been working at NeXT since its inception in 1985, or NeXTstep internally since 1986/7, or looking for people familiar with Mach and the recruiter confusing it for NeXTstep.. Likely a case of just knowing though. Jamon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://gtalug.org/ TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://gtalug.org/wiki/Mailing_lists