Debating web development toolsets

[Kareem Shehata]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Vegh
> Sent: Monday 07 January 2008 15:50
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Debating web development toolsets
> 
> I've taken some time to learn Rails, and have found it enforces a lot
> of great coding practices, such as MVC. The limitations are that it
> makes a lot of things easy, but the functionality that you want to
> integrate becomes very hard.

I like the idea of making good practices easier.  Is it a good idea to learn
design patterns first, or at least be familiar with them?  I've been meaning
to go through the Gang of Four book, but just haven't gotten to it.  This
may be the excuse I've been looking for to dive in.

> I also think you'll find there are more PHP developers than any other
> kind out there. It has broad support on any platform, has a very large
> community behind it. From our previous discussion I can see that many
> people think it's insecure, but again, with good coding practices you
> can alleviate that point. I don't honestly think that it's hard to get
> up to speed on.

I can see that any application poorly coded will result in security
problems, among other things.  I've been working with manufacturing software
(current buzzword is "MES") which tends to be written by people who really
shouldn't be writing software at all, let alone complex system.  That said,
some of the best software ever was written in C with no security checks.

It sounds like I'm going to have to get my hands dirty to really see what
this is like.  It also sounds like I'm going to have to be very careful with
where I look for help.

> > Ruby On Rails: If you believe the marketing hype, it'll do everything
> > including walk the dog three times a day with one line of code.  Is this
> yet
> > another web fad, or is RoR something worth pursuing?
> 
> I definitely think it's worth pursuing. If I were starting out today
> I'd probably be neck deep into Rails. It has a large community, and
> there's no question that it's a legitimate environment. Rails isn't
> going anywhere. Not to mention that learning Ruby will give you
> leverage in other parts of your computing life, as it's a full-on
> object oriented language.

That's my big concern: in 5 years, will this platform still be well
supported?  I can deal with a learning experience, but I can't risk a
full-out project with other people depending on its success with a weak
platform - even if it's a Design Patterns Panacea.  So are the rumours true,
or are they just a few disgruntled troublemakers?
 
> > Java:
> 
> Bah.

My thoughts exactly, but I just wanted to confirm my bias.

> > ASP.NET:
> 
> Double-bah! You can't seriously expect a good answer on this list. ;-)

Meh... I'd like to think there are at least some people here not swayed by
dogma either way.  I personally think the core of .NET is actually really
cool, and if it'd been written by anyone other than MS it would have gained
much more acceptance.  It's the CLR that really kills it.  If the CLR were
truly cross-platform, then it might have actually had a chance to be what
Java had intended.  But that's flamebait for another time.  I have no
intention of chaining myself to MS for web development.  Even if I could
probably turn the app out tomorrow, the maintenance would really suck.

> > Python:
> 
> Not familiar with this, but Python isn't exactly known for its
> suitability for web app development.

I haven't heard much about this, but thought I'd check.  Apparently some
people do use it for web apps, and claim some success.  I was hoping to hear
more about it.

> > Perl:
> 
> There are a number of rabid old school fans of Perl, but it's been
> supplanted by PHP.

Again, trying to separate the hype from substance.  I remember growing up as
the web gained maturity, and Perl really was everything.  Of course, any
Perl-monger will still insist that it's the only language worth considering,
but that's a pretty biased view.
 
> To my mind, your decision is really between PHP and Rails. You'll be
> able to build fine applications with either one: you just need to
> stick your toe in the water and get a feeling for which community is
> right for you.

Yea, with two languages I can at least try them out and see what I find.

> Best of luck!

Thanks, I'll need it!

-kms


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